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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,920 This programme contains strong language and adult themes. 2 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:21,200 Oh, there they are. 3 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,120 After Leigh's death, 4 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:31,160 I came across lots of letters which she'd written to her children. 5 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,120 It shocked me to the core 6 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:42,400 that a mother could write a letter like that to her daughter. 7 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,200 One day in 2015... 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,280 ..I received a letter from the UK. 9 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,520 On the front it says: "Thinking of You." 10 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,640 I opened it... 11 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,400 and there was a picture of a phoenix. 12 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 "Like the phoenix I will arise from the ashes, 13 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,560 "and sleep will obey me and visit thee never, 14 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,000 "for my eyes are upon thee forever and ever. 15 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,200 "I have served my life sentence of shame and blame. 16 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,200 "Now it's your turn to suffer the same." 17 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,200 "Your nemesis, Leigh Sabine." 18 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,600 What the fuck? 19 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,760 Who says that sh...? 20 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,480 It really does make you think, 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,320 what was going on in her mind when she wrote these things? 22 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,400 It seems it didn't take very much to incur her wrath. 23 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,560 Anyone who crossed her was in danger. 24 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Every homicide is unique, but in this case it was absolutely bizarre. 25 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,720 So, we have an unidentified, freshly-killed male body. 26 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,320 May have been there for weeks, possibly months, 27 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,640 who's died from a blow to the head. 28 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,680 At this point in the investigation, Leigh Sabine is the prime suspect. 29 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,160 Leigh had died three weeks before the body was found. 30 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,600 She didn't fit the profile of a killer, 31 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,400 but forensic examination of the packaging wrapped around the body 32 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,720 found a piece of hair that was a positive match for Leigh Sabine, 33 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,960 linking her to the murder. 34 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Now, I had reasonable grounds to forensically examine her flat 35 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,360 to see if there was any evidence of a violent attack, 36 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,440 to prove if the killer is Leigh Sabine. 37 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,400 I attended the scene to look for any forensics at all. 38 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,400 Hair, fibres, blood, fingerprints. 39 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,400 We looked everywhere. 40 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,280 Skirting boards, architraving, 41 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,120 behind cupboards, 42 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,200 the boiler in the kitchen. 43 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,080 Even the DNA team looked under the floorboards for blood. 44 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,920 We knew that the property had been steam cleaned, 45 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,320 and that a lot of the furniture had been given away 46 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,840 to neighbours and friends. 47 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,800 I had the hoover. 48 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,320 Rhian had some jewellery. 49 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,680 Another friend, she had a frog, 50 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,800 which was a weight for a door. 51 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,160 We cleaned the place up really well. 52 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,240 You've got to keep searching for that evidence. 53 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,440 It is like finding a needle in a haystack. 54 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,200 If you're charging me with assault, he says to my mother... 55 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,800 He gave them... Come on, Jane. 56 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,160 After I was charged with assault on my mother, 57 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,320 the shit hit the fan, 58 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,400 and my parents disappeared again. 59 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,640 Are you their mother? No, I'm not their mother, 60 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,240 and I've answered that one before. 61 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:47,560 My mum says to Marty and I, 62 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,360 "We can't keep living like this. We're all going to the UK. 63 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,400 "We've got air fares, we've got all the tickets done. 64 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,840 "We'll drop you at this hotel. 65 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,600 "We'll pick you up at ten tomorrow morning, and we're out of here." 66 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,680 I thought, "I've still got a chance at a family here," you know? 67 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,920 Next morning, I was all pumped. 68 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,400 Let's go! Went out. 69 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,640 Nothing. 70 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,680 It's just... no-one there, 71 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,840 And I waited and waited. 72 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,320 And then I realised once again... 73 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,680 "Yep, they've gone." 74 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,720 Yeah. 75 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,720 Just smacked me around a bit. 76 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,440 Mm. Mm. 77 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,320 And then Jane told me Marty went to the UK with his girlfriend. 78 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,920 Martin was very much involved in helping them escape 79 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,000 because he wanted the relationship to continue. 80 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,840 Oh, it's like someone's stabbed you in the heart, really. 81 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:08,480 I think all of us felt that we were rejected again. 82 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,120 We turned to drugs and alcohol just to waste ourselves, you know, 83 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,560 so that we didn't have to think or feel. 84 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,480 I went right back to an abusive relationship 85 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,200 and drug and alcohol abuse. 86 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,200 There was no-one and nowhere to turn to. 87 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,160 We've never been a family, we're just five people 88 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,400 that have lived different lives, but got the same name. 89 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,720 The good thing is that you're living with your parents, 90 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,640 not relying on foster parents, or anything, 91 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,440 cos they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 92 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,200 It's just good to have your own parents. 93 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,160 When Martin went to the UK... 94 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:51,320 ..I never heard from him again. 95 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,200 After two days, looking for hairs, fibres, blood 96 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,840 and fingerprints... 97 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,400 .. we found absolutely nothing. 98 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,040 And whilst it was disappointing to have no forensic evidence... 99 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,600 .. the report opened up a number of theories in my mind. 100 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,600 My first theory was steam cleaning had taken place, 101 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,800 so DNA and fingerprints would have been destroyed. 102 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,800 The second theory was, 103 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:39,640 whilst we suspected the murder had taken place within that flat... 104 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,440 ..it could have taken place somewhere else altogether. 105 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,600 Martin and I, we lived with Leigh and John. 106 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,280 They had this really nice apartment in Reading. 107 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,640 We had our own little space. 108 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,560 Reading in the '80s, it was just, like, wow! 109 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,720 We were only young kids, but we loved it. 110 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,120 There were pubs everywhere, pub culture was huge. 111 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,320 The cars, the little cars, the tiny streets. 112 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,120 And then the bobbies on bicycles, you know? 113 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,920 Martin was a great pool player. 114 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,120 We'd go down to the local pub and he would thrash them all, 115 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:32,880 the locals. (CHUCKLES) 116 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,360 And it was, like, "Yeah, that's my man." (LAUGHS) 117 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,520 Martin became a different man because he was happy 118 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:45,680 and full of life, when he'd come in and sitting around the dinner table 119 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,640 and have a family to talk to. 120 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,760 And they treated him like he was the only child, 121 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,880 like this long lost son that had come back and returned, 122 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,760 and very spoilt. 123 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,560 He enjoyed being with his parents, 124 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,880 but, again, there was that sadness 125 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,280 that he didn't have his siblings. 126 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,680 He felt he'd betrayed his sisters 127 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,400 and his brother by going to England. 128 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,320 I couldn't believe he went. 129 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,120 I know he wanted a mum and dad. 130 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,120 We all did. 131 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,800 He was just such a softie. 132 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,160 He just wanted that family situation. 133 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,080 He wanted what everybody else has, 134 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,760 but he had his blinders on. 135 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,000 It just wasn't what he imagined. 136 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,880 As the investigation went on, something wasn't sitting right with me. 137 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,960 This body had been recently killed, 138 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:59,360 but before it was found, Leigh Sabine was weak, she was dying of cancer. 139 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,200 Um, there was no way she'd have been able to commit such an act. 140 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,680 I started to go back through the evidence, 141 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,520 you know, review it with the team. 142 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:09,920 Started looking at the body, looking at the wrappings, 143 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600 and that's where I noticed the Tesco carrier bag. 144 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,960 Nothing unusual about a Tesco carrier bag, 145 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000 only this one had a barcode on it. 146 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,200 And the date on that barcode was 1992. 147 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Er, you know, which was a significant time away from 2015. 148 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,040 Now, I understand that people hold on to carrier bags for a long time, 149 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,000 but 20 years, I just thought that was really unlikely. 150 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,760 So, the body, er, when it was found was wearing a pair 151 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,000 of St Michael's pyjamas. 152 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,320 We spoke to Marks & Spencer and what they told us 153 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,200 was that those line of pyjamas were discontinued in the early '90s. 154 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,320 Initially, we believed that this body is probably recent, 155 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,560 yet everything else is telling me 156 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,240 that this murder may have taken place some years ago. 157 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,280 Martin and I just settled into local life. 158 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Martin had formed a really close relationship with John. 159 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,000 John would talk about how he missed 160 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280 sports days with his kids and his sons. 161 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,600 So, it was all happy families, except for Leigh. 162 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,000 She was jealous of the relationship that Martin had with John. 163 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,520 When I got home, she'd either be, you know, 164 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,240 loud and vivacious and happy. 165 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,680 Other days she'd be like, you know, really dark, 166 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,120 moody, stroppy, short. 167 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,440 And I'd think, "Ooh," you know, "what's wrong with her?" 168 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,080 Had she had too much to drink, 169 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,000 or had they been fighting, her and John? 170 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,040 John was upset with not having his other children around him. 171 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,040 But it was the opposite for Leigh. 172 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,480 It's almost like she'd had children but they were more pets, you know, 173 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,880 that she'd had and then discarded. 174 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,200 She didn't have a motherly bone in her body. 175 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,640 As investigators, you think you're getting the story, 176 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:27,360 and then more information would take you in a different direction. 177 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,280 I went back to the pathologist just to run through 178 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,720 some of the things we were finding and some of the things 179 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,960 that were troubling me a little bit. 180 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,240 Could it be that the body could have been there a lot longer? 181 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,880 And the pathologist said there were possibilities. 182 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,200 One thing which he did speak about was the vacuum-packed theory. 183 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,240 He explained, if that body had been wrapped so tightly... 184 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,080 .. and around and round and round. 185 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,680 Taped, sealed, bound, 186 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,880 and if it had been bound with no air inside that packaging... 187 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,000 .. that would have prevented any bacteria, prevented decomposition, 188 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,200 kept the body really well preserved. 189 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,200 It's almost far-fetched, isn't it? 190 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,520 There was skin on the body, there was hair on the body. 191 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,280 The organs were intact. There were no maggots. 192 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,800 Right up until this point of the investigation, 193 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,920 I'm working on the basis this is a freshly killed male body... 194 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,440 .. but could this body have been dead for quite some time, 195 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,080 far longer than we initially thought? 196 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,440 When I spoke to the undertaker, 197 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,040 the undertaker said, "Oh, I've got a theory, Lynne. 198 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,160 "She is proper vacuum-packed, you know, like a piece of meat." 199 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,080 He said, "I do think she's used something to suck the air out." 200 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,800 "Oh, I got the Hoover," I says, "in the back of my car." 201 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,040 I am so glad it never went in my house 202 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,680 cos that would have been a horrible thought, 203 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,120 to think that I had brought that into my house. 204 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,000 All of a sudden, we were looking at a murder 205 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,280 that had occurred many years ago, 206 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,840 when the prime suspect, Leigh Sabine, 207 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,600 was not too frail, ill, to have committed such an act. 208 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,040 After I found that Leigh was at the centre of things, 209 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,280 I started to reflect 210 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,040 on something she'd told me, 211 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,320 which I hadn't really registered at the time, 212 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,640 and it was that one of her sons had died. 213 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,040 And what I found strange was it was almost like a throwaway remark. 214 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,200 It didn't seem to be something which bothered her a great deal. 215 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,240 We'd been living together for about six months. 216 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,720 I came home from work, and Martin said, 217 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,360 "I've got to tell you something. Mum wants you to move out." 218 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,200 And I said, "What? What?" 219 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,160 And he said, "Mum doesn't want you here anymore." 220 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,400 And I said, "Oh, my God! 221 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,640 "What am I gonna tell Mum and Dad? Where am I gonna go? 222 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,160 "Like, what can I do? But what have I done? 223 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,000 "I haven't done anything." And he said, "Yeah, 224 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,200 "she's just gone off on one and she doesn't want you to be here. 225 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,040 "She wants you to move out." 226 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,960 And I started crying. I just didn't know what to do. 227 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Martin was giving them what for, telling them, 228 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,840 "What the... is going on?" 229 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,480 Why were they doing it again, 230 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,440 and why were we all the way over here in the UK 231 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,480 for this to happen to him again? 232 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,880 It was the first time that I'd ever really seen him that angry. 233 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,120 He said, "If she goes, I go too, and you lose me." 234 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,800 John was very emotional. 235 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,600 He was saying, 236 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,560 "But, Leigh, you cannot do this." Like, "Why are you doing it?" 237 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,680 She just said, "Because I can." 238 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,600 I thought, "What an evil bitch!" 239 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,080 And Martin really saw his mother for what she was. 240 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,760 In that moment, I felt Leigh would do anything to be in control again. 241 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,760 I just remember packing my suitcase, 242 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,800 and off we went into the dead of night. 243 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,960 I just didn't know what to do. 244 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,720 Martin stood by me and he said, "I'll never go back." 245 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,600 After that, Martin just went downhill. 246 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,840 His whole life just revolved around drinking. 247 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,880 He would get really dark. 248 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,920 Our relationship spiralled down, 249 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,760 and so we just ended up breaking up. 250 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,200 He moved back to New Zealand. 251 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,720 And one day I get this phone call out of the blue 252 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,640 that Marty passed away. 253 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:15,200 In 2000, Marty had been found deceased... 254 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,240 .. and... 255 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,680 .. he had taken his own life. 256 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,280 I couldn't believe that Marty had pa... 257 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,640 I just never thought he would do that. 258 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,680 He was just a fun, easy-going, gentle soul. 259 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,400 That really knocked me around for ages, that, 260 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,520 because I felt like I'd let him down. 261 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,120 Even though I'd had nothing to do with him for years, 262 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,280 I felt like I'd let him down. 263 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,160 On the day of his funeral, I just cried and cried and cried, 264 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,880 and I just couldn't believe it. 265 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,000 When he went back to the UK 266 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,360 to see them and they shit on him again, 267 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,400 I totally believe he never got over it. 268 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,080 It might have been not the thing 269 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,320 that drove him over the edge in the end, 270 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,400 but, man, it would have filled the cup, you know? 271 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,760 We all can only take so much. 272 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:18,840 Yeah. 273 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,840 Martin phoned me a few days before he killed himself. 274 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,240 He'd often phone every now and then, he'd drunken dial. 275 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,640 He called me by the nickname he used to call me, you know, 276 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,000 and I sort of said to him, "Oh, Martin." 277 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,080 I said, "Oh," you know. I said, "Stop it!" I said, "You're drunk." 278 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,160 He told me that he loved me and that he'd always love me, 279 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,720 and then that was it. 280 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320 In my heart of hearts now, when I look back on that phone call, 281 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,040 that last phone call, 282 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,640 it was his goodbye, that he'd had enough. 283 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,040 He'd actually had enough. 284 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,240 So, yeah... 285 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,320 Sorry. 286 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,240 I understand why he took his life. 287 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,360 Not that I think it was right, 288 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,280 but he felt it was right for him. 289 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,920 He was tired of believing in people. 290 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,520 No-one can hurt him where he is now, so that's good. 291 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,080 Mm. 292 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,320 I could never forgive my parents for what happened to Marty. 293 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,360 They destroyed a beautiful soul. 294 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,400 After Marty had passed, 295 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,960 I received a phone call and it's my mother. 296 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,200 And she said somebody had knocked on her door, 297 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,160 and it was two policemen, 298 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,360 and they had informed her that her son had died. 299 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,480 I said, "Yes," and I told her how he had died. 300 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,720 And she says, "Oh. But why would he do that?" 301 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,040 I was just speechless. 302 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,480 It's, like, "What the fuck, lady?" 303 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,040 It's, like... 304 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,680 "Because of you." 305 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,520 Not long after my mother passed away, 306 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,480 Mary West was cleaning out my mother's home, 307 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560 and came across all these letters 308 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 she had written to all us children. 309 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,360 I just couldn't believe what she was saying in them. 310 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,600 Just crazy talk. 311 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,280 Jane's ones were bad. 312 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,280 Jane was the ugly duckling. 313 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,960 Marty's ones were bad, 314 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,840 calling him gutless and soft, 315 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,560 and when she had him, he was weak. 316 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,560 Children were a burden to her. 317 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,640 She didn't care about any of us. 318 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,720 Everything was about her. 319 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,720 How could she write such horrible... 320 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,920 horrible, nasty, 321 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,080 mean, evil stuff? 322 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,520 She had a whole life with no kids 323 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,680 to do whatever she wanted to do, enjoy her life. 324 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240 I just don't know why... 325 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,440 why she had so much hate. 326 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,360 Towards the end, 327 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,240 she said to me, "You could write my life story for me." 328 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,520 It didn't appear that she had a good upbringing herself. 329 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,000 Leigh told me that she grew up in the Rhondda, 330 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,760 which is a mining valley in South Wales. 331 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,240 It was tough because, literally, there was no money. 332 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,920 Leigh had been abandoned as a young child. 333 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,120 Her mother had left her father 334 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,480 when Leigh was about three, 335 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,880 and Leigh had been taken into care. 336 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,520 It had been a painful time for her. 337 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,800 She used to say that she'd been abused when she was in care. 338 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,880 She didn't go into detail about it. 339 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,280 It left her, as often happens with children like this, 340 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,360 as though she was emotionally stunted. 341 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:51,000 I felt she had never been taught how to be a mother. 342 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:56,400 When she was about 15, she went to live with her aunt, 343 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,640 and her aunt encouraged her to sing. 344 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,240 Leigh's aunt modelled her appearance on the singer, Deanna Durbin. 345 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800 "I wanted to look nice my first time out in Vienna." 346 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,040 "Oh, now, looks very nice. Very, very pretty." 347 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,800 Bought her clothes, 348 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,560 make up, etcetera, 349 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,960 so that she did echo Deanna Durbin. 350 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,320 That could have been when Leigh tried to build up this persona, 351 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,200 and rather than live in the real world... 352 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,160 .. she chose to fantasise about what she wanted her life to be. 353 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,560 There was no doubt that she was an absolute storyteller. 354 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,840 The stories of her life were totally mythical. 355 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,520 She wasn't actually Leigh Sabine from New Zealand. 356 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,640 We found out her name was Ann Evans. 357 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,560 She was a lady who was born in the Rhondda Valley in South Wales. 358 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,720 She grew up in that area. 359 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,120 Can you believe she lived in the Rhondda? It's only up the road. 360 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,720 A valleys girl? Good God, well. I wouldn't have... 361 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,680 I mean, you, obviously, you can tell my accent. 362 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,920 You would never have known that from her... 363 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,840 No, definitely not, no. .. Her accent. 364 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,120 No fucking way. 365 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,280 Fuck off! We always thought she was from New Zealand. 366 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,640 I would never, never in a million years, 367 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,680 have thought that she was from Rhondda Valley. 368 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,080 And they say you can't take the valley out of the... 369 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,720 the girl from the valley. You can, obviously, yeah. 370 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,760 Everything she said was untrue. 371 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,160 Absolute lie. 372 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,800 She just lived in a different world to everybody else. 373 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,200 I remember one day out of the blue, my mother rang. 374 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,800 She said, "Your father passed a couple of years ago." 375 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,440 And I says, "Oh, how did he pass?" 376 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,240 And she said, "Oh, he had a lot of medical issues." 377 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,200 I says, "Oh, that's really sad." 378 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,600 And she's, "Oh, I never truly loved him." 379 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080 I hung up. 380 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:07,920 Why she even felt the need 381 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,280 to tell me she never truly loved him, I don't know. 382 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,160 I remember, Leigh and John had moved in. 383 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,000 Would have been about '97. 384 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,560 My father said, "New neighbours." I said, "Oh, that's nice. 385 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,160 "Have you met them?" 386 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200 "Yes." I said, "What's the matter?" He said, "Oh, I don't like her." 387 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,840 "Something about her that I don't like." 388 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,880 "She's too in your face. Oh, I don't like her." 389 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,560 John was just... quiet. 390 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,640 He was very quiet. Sat in the background. 391 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,200 He spoke, but she did most of the talking. 392 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960 We did full proof of life enquiries for John Sabine. 393 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,720 DVLA, National Health Service, 394 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,280 passport enquiries. 395 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,640 John had only been living there three, four months, at the most? 396 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,480 He wasn't there long, put it like that. 397 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,480 There was only a handful of times I ever had any interaction with him. 398 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,120 I'd never met John Sabine, but Leigh said that he'd left her 399 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,920 because, "Darling, that's what Italian men do." 400 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,760 We were able to prove that on the 10th of February 1997... 401 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,960 .. John and Leigh Sabine had moved into 57, Trem-y-Cwm in Beddau. 402 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,040 Both of them had signed the tenancy agreement. 403 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,120 A couple of months later, 9th April 1997, 404 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,240 he'd actually been physically seen by a doctor, 405 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,240 who recorded that meeting. 406 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,280 But since April 1997, 407 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,520 no-one had ever seen or heard of John Sabine. 408 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840 When I looked back at the death certificate Mary West had uncovered... 409 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,120 ..it was for a John H Sabine. 410 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,920 He was a male who was born in 1929. 411 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,960 However, looking at this document, John Sabine was born 412 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,960 on the 5th August 1930. 413 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,560 So, you had the same name, John Sabine, 414 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,240 both born in the London area, 415 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,640 but the date of births were actually out by one year. 416 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,160 So, with all the best intentions of Mary West, 417 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,280 she'd had the death certificate of a different person. 418 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,760 After John had supposedly left her, 419 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,560 when we went to visit my parents, 420 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960 as soon as you open the door, this smell would hit you. 421 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,360 It had to be coming from Leigh's flat. 422 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,520 I'd say to my mum, "What on Earth is that smell?" 423 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,920 "Oh, she's cooking curry." 424 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,040 I used to say, "Mum, I cook curry. It doesn't smell like that." 425 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,080 It was a putrid smell. 426 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,040 She'd put a load of potpourri, etcetera, 427 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,520 to hide the smell. It didn't work, though. 428 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,400 Now we're focussing on John Sabine as the potential victim, 429 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,840 but we had no definitive proof that it was him. 430 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,440 We needed the DNA from his children 431 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,920 in order to establish identity. 432 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,560 I got a phone call from the police, and they want a DNA sample, 433 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,440 so they can identify the body. 434 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080 And I said, "Good," and then they contacted me back, 435 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,200 and said, "We don't need one off you. 436 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,720 We got one off your brother. 437 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,880 And then I says, "But my brother's dead." 438 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,920 "No, no, you've got a half-brother over here." 439 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280 Excuse my language but I thought, "Holy fuck! 440 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,680 "What else is going to come out of this?" 441 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,720 We were starting to delve deeper into John Sabine, 442 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760 pulling his army records, and that's when we found out 443 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,560 that he'd actually had two children from a previous marriage 444 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,080 that were living in the UK. 445 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,440 I'm Chris Sabine, son of John Sabine from his first marriage. 446 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,000 I was about one years old. 447 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,960 My sister would have been about two and a half 448 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,920 when my father abandoned us. 449 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,440 Back in 2015, 450 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,120 we were selling Christmas trees, 451 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,040 and the phone rang, and I picked the phone up. 452 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,560 This Welsh accent said, "Is Christopher John Sabine there?" 453 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,080 They said, "We wanna come out and do a test on you 454 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,360 "because we've found a body. We think it's your father. 455 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,360 "If we can come over as soon as possible." 456 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,760 I said, "When's that?" They said, "Tomorrow morning." 457 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,480 I thought, "Well, it's Saturday." 458 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,720 A Sunday. No, it was Saturday then. 459 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,520 Yeah. Then they said they'll be over by the morning. 460 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,440 They were here at nine o'clock, ten o'clock? 461 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,440 Nine o'clock. In the morning? They did a DNA test. 462 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,000 Well, I was a bit stunned by it, really, 463 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,080 because you thought, "What's happened?" 464 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640 My mother said when I was one or two years old, 465 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400 my father came back from the Korean War. 466 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,880 He had shellshock. 467 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,680 He was in hospital for a long period of time, 468 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,160 and he got friendly with the nurse. 469 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,400 Next thing you know, she got pregnant. 470 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,280 At the time, John was 28 and Leigh was 17. 471 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,160 When my mother found out, she decided, that's it, 472 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,320 best thing he can do is sling his hook, and told him to leave. 473 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,240 It were one of the worst things in my life. 474 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,200 I never grew up with a father. There's a lot to miss. 475 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,920 Officers went to see Chris, 476 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,480 took a DNA sample kit, which comprised of a mouth swab. 477 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,640 We quickly fast-tracked them to the lab. 478 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,240 I was very conscious this was someone 479 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,640 who hadn't seen their father for many, many years. 480 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,560 We weren't sure of their relationship. 481 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,560 We weren't sure of the impact that a match could have on Chris. 482 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,080 In the mid-'80s, when I was round about the age of 32, 483 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,080 we get this phone call to say, 484 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,760 "This is your father, John Sabine. 485 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,040 "Would you like to meet me?" I said, "Yeah, certainly." 486 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,200 I couldn't believe it. 487 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,520 We met for over a year, and everything was nice. 488 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200 We went down every fortnight to Reading, 489 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,920 and we always went out for dinner. 490 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,120 We paid one week, they paid the following. 491 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,840 It was very strange cos going all through my life 492 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,040 with no father, all of a sudden I've got a father. 493 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,960 I was really pleased to see him. 494 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,280 I think he wanted to have a family. 495 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,600 Not so much be a dad, but have a family. 496 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,960 As we got to know them both more, 497 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,160 it appeared that she was definitely the one in control. 498 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,280 John agreed with everything that she said. 499 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,720 He would never stand up against her. He wouldn't argue with her. 500 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,880 She was a bit aggressive. 501 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,920 One day, I rung up to say, "I've got my first child." 502 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,960 "You're a grandad now." 503 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,720 And it's almost as if he couldn't speak to me. 504 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,240 And that was it. Never saw him again. 505 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,800 Which was strange cos I thought John was very, very keen 506 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,560 to have a grandchild. 507 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,720 I don't think Leigh at the time wanted him 508 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,880 to have any relationship back with us. 509 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,800 She's a very jealous person, 510 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,720 and it was her way or no way. 511 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,120 So, two days, we received the results of the DNA test. 512 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,040 DNA that we derived from Christopher 513 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,760 had helped us positively identify the victim. 514 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760 It showed that it was actually his father, John Sabine. 515 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,000 I was horrified. 516 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,280 I was sad. I was all these emotions. 517 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,080 Couldn't believe it, but I could believe it. 518 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,800 And I felt sorry for John. 519 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,760 I thought, "You poor man." 520 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600 He wasn't perfect, 521 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,680 but I felt sad for my father. 522 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,640 In the little time I knew him, he always seemed placid to me. 523 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,480 In New Zealand, when the press were going, 524 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,960 he would be just about crying, you know. 525 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,760 He was... It was too much for him. 526 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,320 I want it left alone. We'll leave 'em be. 527 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,360 All you're trying to do is to break the family up 528 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000 and cause a lot of problems. Right, thank you. 529 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,840 When I was told to leave that home... 530 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,880 ..my father came running out with a parrot. 531 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,320 It was a hanging parrot that sat on the swing. 532 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,720 He had pulled that parrot off the swing, 533 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,120 and he gave it to me and told me he loved me. 534 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,360 And I think that's where this softness I hold is there for him. 535 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,600 I don't know that my mother knew about this parrot, 536 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,920 but she would have hated that. 537 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,240 The theory was that John Sabine was killed by Leigh Sabine 538 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,560 some time in 1997. 539 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,080 But there was no hard evidence. 540 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,200 Confirming the identity of the body gave a number 541 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,520 of investigative options to me, 542 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,280 one being the media. 543 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,240 You know, appealing for witnesses. 544 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,960 I formally named John Sabine as the victim 545 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,800 and that was the first time that his name had really gone out. 546 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,320 Welsh police have discovered the body of a man wrapped in plastic. 547 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,120 John Sabine was last seen 18 years ago. They lived all over the UK. 548 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,680 They kept no close friends, no close family members. 549 00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:32,520 If you do know anything about this couple please call them on 101. 550 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,400 The most interesting phone call was from a lady called Valerie Chalkley. 551 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,400 She'd been friendly with the Sabines 552 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200 when they returned from Australia in 1984 and were living in Reading. 553 00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:50,920 She was a strange, strange person, she really, she really was. 554 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,520 Valerie Chalkley tells the story 555 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,920 of how she lost touch with John and Leigh. 556 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,280 For a number of years, she didn't speak to them, 557 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,640 and she says, "I get a phone call out of the blue and it's Leigh Sabine." 558 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,000 And she put the date around 1997. 559 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,960 Valerie Chalkley just asked her, "How are you? How's John?" 560 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,880 She said, "I've killed him." 561 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,680 I said, "Er..." She said, "Yeah, I've killed him. 562 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,320 "I've battered him with a stone frog 563 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,080 "because he was getting on my nerves." 564 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,440 And I thought, "Oh, she's having me on." 565 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,280 She could out with statements that were totally ridiculous, 566 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,800 and you know when you feel a bit of fool and think, "I feel a fool," 567 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,040 and if I said, "Is that true?" she'd say, "Course it isn't," you know. 568 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,040 Then she goes on to talk about other things. 569 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,760 Changed the subject completely. 570 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,680 She was a show woman, she really was. 571 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,760 If she could have written her life story, 572 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,320 this is what she would have done. 573 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,720 This is how she would have wanted it. 574 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,600 People talking about her, leaving an impression. 575 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,280 Listening to what she told me, I wasn't sure what to make of it. 576 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,840 This was so bizarre, this information. How credible was this? 577 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,880 We weren't sure whether this was the missing piece of the puzzle, 578 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,960 this was actually it, or whether it's a weird story. 579 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,280 This ornamental frog that has been used, 580 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,280 potentially, as a murder weapon to kill John, we have to trace it. 581 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,560 How we gonna do that? It's been 18 years. 582 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:37,640 CID contacted me and asked me if I'd ever seen this frog, 583 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,560 and I said, "Well, it used to be propping Leigh's bedroom door open." 584 00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,840 I just tasked the officers to go back and speak to Leigh's neighbours. 585 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,560 We started doing some inquiries, 586 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,360 and the very first place we go 587 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,840 is to the resident downstairs who was arrested as a suspect. 588 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,160 That was a sensitive inquiry cos Michelle James was quite upset 589 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,440 over the fact that she'd been arrested in this case. 590 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,960 We ask her, "Is there any other boxes belonging to Leigh?" 591 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,320 She said, "Oh, I think there's a box on top of my fridge." 592 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,320 And there it was. 593 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:15,560 Both our eyes lit up, you know, thinking, "That it might be it." 594 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,520 What the pathologist was able to do was produce digital imagery. 595 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,680 You could see where that frog had been driven into the skull. 596 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,880 It was a perfect overlay. 597 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,040 My theory is, John Sabine had gone to bed, fallen asleep. 598 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080 They may have had an argument earlier that night. 599 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,880 And then she's grabbed that stone frog 600 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,960 and she's attacked him with some significant blows to the head 601 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,760 which have ended his life. 602 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,680 It just didn't seem real. It's so far-fetched. 603 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,320 18 years and no-one missed him, you know? 604 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,040 Oh, God. 605 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,280 Part of me thinks that my father was always feeling bad 606 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,880 that he had left us again. 607 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,160 I think she didn't wanna hear it and hit him over the head to shut him up. 608 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,040 She just disposed of him like she did everybody else. 609 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,960 She got away with murder, 610 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,000 she got away with so much in her life. 611 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,840 You know, I can't forgive someone for that. 612 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,120 Our father loved her unconditionally. 613 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,640 He had nobody else, so he stayed with her, 614 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,400 and he paid a terrible price. 615 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,000 This is the ring that my father John had on him when they found the body. 616 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,800 There's nothing much else. 617 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,080 Nothing. Nothing at all, no photos, 618 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,040 no nothing. 619 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,200 At his funeral, 620 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,520 there's nobody there. Literally, nobody. 621 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,160 It was as if he was a ghost in the area that he lived. 622 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,320 Nobody can ever recognise him, 623 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,040 nobody ever saw him, nobody ever interacted with him, 624 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,560 but I think that's exactly how she wanted it to be. 625 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,040 It was, er, coercive control. 626 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680 A murder has been concealed for some 18 years, 627 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,400 and Ann Sabine kept up the facade that John Sabine left her, 628 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,880 or was with another woman, or had, indeed, died. 629 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,520 It's almost like Leigh Sabine 630 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,560 was thinking ahead and setting traps for people. 631 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,640 The stone frog was actually sitting in Michelle's flat. 632 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,480 Leigh's even told Michelle James 633 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,480 this story around the medical skeleton. 634 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,280 It's really cruel, when you think of what Michelle James went through. 635 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,880 The impact that the murder had on Michelle was quite appalling. 636 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,000 If Leigh had come clean, 637 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,240 she was dying, she couldn't have been brought to justice, 638 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,240 but there would have been more a sense of natural justice 639 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,040 if other people hadn't had to be implicated. 640 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,400 TV: "Mr Sabine was never reported as a missing person, 641 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440 "and the circumstances of where his body was concealed 642 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,720 "is part of the ongoing investigation." 643 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,120 Going into that flat, I can't recall seeing a big freezer. 644 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,440 I can't recall seeing an attic door. There probably was. 645 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,120 Was that body in the loft? 646 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,200 I think it was under the divan bed. 647 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,440 Under the bed? No way. 648 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,200 The only other possible place it could have been was in the garden. 649 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,440 Now, whether he was in the garden shed. 650 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,120 The only feasible place that it could have been stored 651 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,040 was there was one sort of store cupboard where the meter was kept. 652 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,680 It would have had to be somewhere where she could have access 653 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,280 to the body and continually wrap it 654 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,160 over a period of time, you know, 655 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,280 to prevent the smells and prevent any decomposition. 656 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,760 But I absolutely felt that she had duped us. 657 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,560 She had this secret all along and was hiding it from us. 658 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,040 You don't think you have a murderer in the midst, 659 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,640 but, obviously, there was one right on our doorstep. 660 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,080 I felt angry with her afterwards because she was an outsider 661 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,800 who'd been accepted, and she mocked that. 662 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,080 And she boasted that, "After I die I will be famous." 663 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,360 And we laughed it off. 664 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:52,400 She played a damn good part. 665 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,640 An Oscar should have been awarded. 666 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,000 She wasn't an actor; she was a liar. 667 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,800 I do think she was evil, and those children suffered because of her. 668 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,760 I couldn't leave her with all the glory 669 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,600 of committing the perfect murder. 670 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,880 Because this story is not just about a murder, 671 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,720 it's about our lives. 672 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,040 I spent the majority of my life trying to figure out 673 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440 why our parents might have left, 674 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,920 and the reality of what they did to us. 675 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,560 All my life all I've wanted to do is be part of a family, 676 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,040 good, bad or otherwise. I just wanted to belong to something. 677 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,520 And all my life, I never though we... I did. 678 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,080 Last time I seen Lee-Ann was about three or four years ago. 679 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,120 Hey, sis! 680 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,800 Jane the same time. 681 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,880 (CHUCKLES) Hello! 682 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,880 I always wonder what our family would have been like 683 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,040 if we'd stayed together. 684 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,520 Did you guys know our mother was abandoned when she was younger? 685 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,080 Yep, she told Marty and I. 686 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,360 I don't feel one ounce of pity or sorrow or anything for her. 687 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,720 Sorry, I don't. 688 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,560 Why go and have five children and leave them, 689 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,240 when you know that pain? 690 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,480 You know that pain of desertion, 691 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,280 and yet she went and did it to us. 692 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,720 But regardless of what my mother did, 693 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,640 we're breaking the cycle. 694 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,920 I could never imagine putting my kids through what I went through. 695 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,760 My mother had a choice. 696 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,400 Everyone's got to make a choice. 697 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,760 Could have kept going on the same route I was. 698 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,400 I would either have been in jail for the rest of my life, 699 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,200 or I would have been dead. 700 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,200 I knew that the only way out for me 701 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,840 was if I had a child to love and look after. 702 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,760 That... 703 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,320 That would save me. 704 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,840 When you have a baby, the love is instant. 705 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,080 It's like the most amazing, beautiful thing in the world. 706 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,640 My kids were the best thing that happened in my life. 707 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,800 (SNIFFLES) Yeah. 708 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,840 We've all come from a horrible place 709 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,760 and done some amazing things in our lives. 710 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,000 You know, I own my own home... 711 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,400 ..got children, got a lovely wife, you know. 712 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,120 And I do love my wife. 713 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,000 She wonders sometimes. 714 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,320 I'm actually really proud of the kids we've turned out to be. 715 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,000 We're good kids. We have hearts. 716 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,160 Unlike her. 717 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:45,160 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky 55736

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