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In the criminal justice system,
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sexually based offenses
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are considered
especially heinous.
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In New York City,
the dedicated detectives
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who investigate
these vicious felonies
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are members of an elite squad
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known as
the Special Victims Unit.
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These are their stories.
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These are coming
pretty close together.
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I think it's time
to head to the hospital.
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But the last one didn't
even last a full minute.
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You've been in labor
for over 48 hours.
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I'm getting worried.
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I just... I don't want
to go all the way
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to the hospital
for them to send me home
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because it's too soon.
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Okay, let's, uh... let's just...
let's watch a movie.
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Um, and then... and then
we can see how I feel after.
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Yeah, it's...
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Do you... do you like rom-come?
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Natalie...
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listen...
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I couldn't forgive myself
if something happened to you.
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Just... please.
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Please.
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Let's go to the hospital.
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I will be there with you
the whole way.
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I promise.
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You are so sweet.
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I don't know
what I would do without you.
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Okay.
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Hospital.
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-Let's do it.
-Yeah.
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I'll get my go bag.
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I'll call a car.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Anika.
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Oh, my God!
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Anika!
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It's him.
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-What do you mean "it's him"?
-It's... it's him.
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He's... he's here. He's outside.
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-What? Are you sure?
-Yes.
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Where is he? Which one?
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You're positive you saw him?
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Natalie?
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Natalie, where are you?
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Natalie!
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I need police right away.
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I think my client was kidnapped
by her rapist.
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Just one second, sorry.
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She's back.
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Hey, Rollins.
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Hey, yourself, Tran.
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Thank you.
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So what have we got?
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Vic's name is Natalie Tanzillo,
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34 years old, in active labor.
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She told her doula she was
being stalked by her rapist.
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No name or visuals
for our suspect yet,
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but I got officers canvassing
a 2-mile radius.
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They found this on the street...
her phone.
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Perp must have chucked it.
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I'm sorry.
She's in active labor?
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Doula says she's about to pop.
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00:03:01,306 --> 00:03:03,975
All right, get us access
to subway cams, traffic cams,
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00:03:04,059 --> 00:03:06,936
and grab any Ring footage
these neighbors might have.
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00:03:07,062 --> 00:03:09,356
-That your new partner?
-Yeah.
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Well, you know about her, right?
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She was a rat.
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Rat, Internal Affairs.
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Come on, I thought that was
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a pretty good rat impersonation.
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I've worked with her before.
Curry's solid.
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Cool, very cool.
Just, you know, looking out.
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What, so she's giving birth
to a stillborn baby
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that's a product of a rape?
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I know, right? It's a lot.
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She wanted me to coach her
through the early stages
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of labor until she had to go
to the hospital to deliver,
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but it's taken a while.
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And she never told you
who raped her?
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Just that she knew him
through work
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and he stalked her for months.
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It's why she got this sublet.
This isn't even her apartment.
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I-I have no idea
how he found us. I...
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So how long until
she gives birth, do you think?
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Could be a day.
Could be five minutes.
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Listen, Natalie has a lot
of underlying conditions...
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eclampsia, placenta previa.
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If she delivers without
a doctor, she could bleed out.
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00:04:02,784 --> 00:04:04,828
-Okay.
-Thank you.
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00:04:57,252 --> 00:04:59,932
Police are asking the public
to be on the lookout
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for a pregnant woman
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abducted from a Chelsea
apartment earlier today.
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According to the doula,
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Natalie is pretty much
on her own.
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She's got no family in the area,
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doesn't seem to have
the support of her friends.
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And she never reported the rape?
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Checked the open 61s.
Nothing's there.
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00:05:13,194 --> 00:05:15,071
Okay, so all we have
is a time frame.
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We know that the assault
happened 20 weeks ago.
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Right, and Natalie
did tell Anika
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that she and the perp
had worked together.
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I checked employment records.
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Natalie has no W-2 income
for the last two years.
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All right,
Transit Bureau just flagged
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this subway surveillance.
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00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:30,194
Okay, so that's Natalie
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00:05:30,278 --> 00:05:32,697
entering the 23rd Street
C and E station.
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Mm-hmm.
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This is from
about half an hour ago.
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I can't tell who she's with.
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But Transit Bureau's
tracking every step
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on every connecting line
to pick up their trail.
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But we can't wait for that.
So Bruno and... grab Griff.
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Griff's in Phoenix.
NCMEC conference.
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Right. Okay.
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You see if you can track down
any of Natalie's family.
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You two head to her apartment
and see if you can pull
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anything that might tell us
where she's working
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within our 20-week time frame.
-Yeah.
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She kept track of how many
glasses of water she drank,
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how many steps she clocked,
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and how many times
she practiced calligraphy,
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but not a single thing
in here about work.
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This girl's been
through the wringer.
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-It's brutal.
-Yeah.
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There's a card in here, though.
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Maybe it's a friend
we can actually contact.
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Mm. How does it feel being back?
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Well, this is
a tough case to walk into,
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00:06:35,979 --> 00:06:39,149
but I'm good.
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Officer Tran was happy
to see you.
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Yeah.
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He's got a big mouth,
but he's harmless.
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I'm... I'm happy
with the current setup.
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00:06:48,283 --> 00:06:50,619
No issues for me.
-Me neither.
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00:06:50,702 --> 00:06:52,412
Yeah, he's just mad
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'cause I jammed up a buddy
of his for taking bribes.
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00:06:55,457 --> 00:06:57,501
-It sucks to suck.
-Yeah.
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00:06:57,584 --> 00:06:59,836
Got an ultrasound printout
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and a couple
of reimbursement checks
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from a place called
Wheels for Pups.
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00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:06,885
That sound like a nonprofit?
-Yeah.
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00:07:07,010 --> 00:07:09,387
Volunteering would explain
no W-2 income.
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Mm.
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00:07:13,725 --> 00:07:15,143
You hear that?
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00:07:15,226 --> 00:07:17,896
Sounded like a key in the door.
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Natalie?
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Tanzillo?
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We're with NYPD SVU.
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Are you hurt?
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Um, uh...
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I don't think...
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Oh, God.
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Oh.
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00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:44,673
Oh, God.
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00:07:44,756 --> 00:07:46,383
Okay, okay, okay.
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00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:48,259
Central, this is Curry with SVU.
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Missing female...
-It's okay, breathe.
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Breathe.
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Okay.
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00:07:53,264 --> 00:07:55,266
Okay. We got you.
-Okay.
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We got a pregnant woman
in active labor, high risk,
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heading to Northwell Greenwich.
-No.
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-ETA, 10.
-No, no Northwell, not there.
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00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:02,649
Natalie, just focus
on your breathing.
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Okay, we got to get you
to the closest hospital.
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No! No, stop.
There's... there's a doctor.
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He... I don't trust...
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I don't trust
Northwell Greenwich. Please.
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Please, anywhere but there.
Please.
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00:08:14,536 --> 00:08:15,871
Um, hey, try
NewYork-Presbyterian.
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We'll, uh...
we'll meet you there.
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Hey, what's the story?
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She's with the doc now.
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00:08:21,793 --> 00:08:23,712
Wasn't in any shape
to tell us anything.
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-She just walked in alone?
-Yeah, no apparent injuries.
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Besides being in labor,
she seemed fine.
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Patient's ready for discharge.
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Excuse me.
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I'm Captain Benson, SVU.
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00:08:34,723 --> 00:08:37,350
Are you discharging
Natalie Tanzillo?
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00:08:37,475 --> 00:08:40,520
We were told that she was
at risk for bleeding out.
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I recommend
you talk to her yourself.
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Natalie.
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Natalie,
I'm Captain Benson from SVU.
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Should you be standing up?
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00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:58,163
Um, hey.
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00:08:58,246 --> 00:08:59,998
Are you okay?
Tell me what happened.
194
00:09:00,081 --> 00:09:02,375
Why... why are they
sending you home?
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00:09:02,459 --> 00:09:04,753
Um, I...
196
00:09:04,878 --> 00:09:07,089
I don't... I don't know.
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00:09:07,172 --> 00:09:08,674
I don't understand.
198
00:09:08,757 --> 00:09:09,967
Hey, do you need
to sit down or...
199
00:09:10,050 --> 00:09:11,050
No.
200
00:09:11,134 --> 00:09:12,134
No.
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00:09:12,218 --> 00:09:14,429
'Cause I...
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00:09:14,596 --> 00:09:17,057
I felt it. I fe...
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00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:21,311
I felt it, but, um,
the doctor, he's...
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00:09:21,394 --> 00:09:23,230
the doctor...
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00:09:23,313 --> 00:09:25,482
I don't... I don't even know
how to tell you.
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You know what?
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00:09:27,776 --> 00:09:31,279
Um, d-did you deliver the baby?
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00:09:31,404 --> 00:09:34,074
You know what? Let me... let me
bring the doctor back in here.
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00:09:34,157 --> 00:09:38,203
No, no, no. I-I have to go.
210
00:09:38,328 --> 00:09:40,455
What happened to...
what happened to the baby?
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00:09:40,538 --> 00:09:44,459
There wasn't one.
That woman was never pregnant.
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00:09:56,759 --> 00:09:58,636
Natalie.
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00:09:58,795 --> 00:10:00,797
Hey.
214
00:10:00,881 --> 00:10:02,415
Uh, hi.
215
00:10:02,499 --> 00:10:05,730
Um, can I... can I just have
a bit of space?
216
00:10:05,814 --> 00:10:08,317
Um, I'm just... I'm kind of
going through a lot right now.
217
00:10:08,401 --> 00:10:10,112
Right. I don't...
I don't want you to think
218
00:10:10,235 --> 00:10:12,112
that you're in any kind
of trouble, because you're not.
219
00:10:12,195 --> 00:10:14,322
I just... I'm here 'cause...
'cause I want to help.
220
00:10:14,406 --> 00:10:16,199
That doctor, he told me to talk
221
00:10:16,282 --> 00:10:18,535
to a psychiatrist,
but I swear that I'm not crazy.
222
00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:21,371
Natalie, after a big trauma
223
00:10:21,454 --> 00:10:23,456
like... like the one
you went through,
224
00:10:23,581 --> 00:10:26,209
the... the... the body
and the mind can, uh,
225
00:10:26,376 --> 00:10:28,378
come up with very powerful
226
00:10:28,545 --> 00:10:31,506
and creative ways to cope,
227
00:10:31,589 --> 00:10:34,759
ways that can feel
very, very real.
228
00:10:34,843 --> 00:10:37,429
You... you've seen this before?
229
00:10:37,512 --> 00:10:41,642
What I've seen is
victims of sexual assault
230
00:10:41,725 --> 00:10:44,352
try to hide
from what happened, right,
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00:10:44,477 --> 00:10:46,897
when real healing comes
232
00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:49,649
from facing what happened.
233
00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:54,196
Why don't we go and...
and talk about this, okay?
234
00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:57,699
Wait. No, I'm sorry.
I just... I want to go home.
235
00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,117
I'm... I'm sorry that I...
236
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,036
I'm sorry
that I made everybody worry.
237
00:11:01,119 --> 00:11:05,207
Natalie, whatever...
whatever happened today...
238
00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:08,501
the man that did this to you
is still out there.
239
00:11:08,585 --> 00:11:10,420
Okay?
-I know. I know.
240
00:11:10,503 --> 00:11:12,506
I... look, you're right.
241
00:11:12,589 --> 00:11:14,507
But I just... I can't deal
with this right now.
242
00:11:14,591 --> 00:11:15,759
-It's okay.
-I'm sorry.
243
00:11:15,842 --> 00:11:17,552
I'm gonna give you
my card, okay?
244
00:11:17,635 --> 00:11:18,970
I'm gonna give you my card.
245
00:11:19,054 --> 00:11:21,723
This is, um... this is my
personal number on the back.
246
00:11:21,806 --> 00:11:23,725
Call me anytime, okay?
247
00:11:26,686 --> 00:11:29,856
You are such a good person.
248
00:11:29,939 --> 00:11:31,191
Thank you.
249
00:11:31,274 --> 00:11:32,609
Okay. All right.
250
00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:34,527
There you go.
251
00:11:34,611 --> 00:11:36,154
Thank you.
252
00:11:44,371 --> 00:11:47,624
So pseudocyesis can happen
to victims of sexual assault,
253
00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:49,292
but it's just extremely rare.
254
00:11:49,376 --> 00:11:51,503
I mean, I don't know.
255
00:11:51,628 --> 00:11:53,797
How'd the doula miss
a fake pregnancy?
256
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,008
Well, they're not
medical professionals.
257
00:11:56,091 --> 00:11:58,218
And at 20 weeks,
given Natalie's build,
258
00:11:58,301 --> 00:11:59,636
I mean, even we bought it.
259
00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:01,722
Something's not tracking for me.
260
00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:04,265
You know, we found
an ultrasound image
261
00:12:04,391 --> 00:12:06,142
at Natalie's apartment.
262
00:12:06,226 --> 00:12:09,229
And if she was never pregnant,
where'd she get it?
263
00:12:09,312 --> 00:12:10,897
I could find you
3 million ultrasounds
264
00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:12,107
on Google right now.
-Exactly.
265
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:13,775
So she sought it out,
she printed it up,
266
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:15,110
knowing it wasn't hers?
267
00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:17,154
But if she really believed
that she was pregnant...
268
00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:19,072
Why go through the trouble?
269
00:12:19,197 --> 00:12:22,117
Look, I'm not saying that
the assault didn't happen.
270
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,579
My own sister faked a pregnancy
after an assault.
271
00:12:26,705 --> 00:12:28,749
Maybe Natalie just needed help,
and she thought
272
00:12:28,832 --> 00:12:30,959
that this was the only way
she could get it.
273
00:12:31,042 --> 00:12:32,794
Just keep pulling that thread.
274
00:12:32,877 --> 00:12:34,546
Any... any luck tracking down
275
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:36,047
Natalie's history of employment?
276
00:12:36,131 --> 00:12:38,050
Wheels for Pups confirmed
Natalie was a volunteer
277
00:12:38,133 --> 00:12:40,010
within our time frame,
but get this.
278
00:12:40,135 --> 00:12:44,932
Her supervisor,
Eduardo Perreira...
279
00:12:45,015 --> 00:12:47,225
he's got a record...
indecent exposure.
280
00:12:47,308 --> 00:12:49,227
Okay, a misdemeanor
or violation?
281
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:51,521
I'm still working on getting
the case files unsealed.
282
00:12:51,646 --> 00:12:54,274
Okay, so head to his office
and see what you can find out.
283
00:12:54,357 --> 00:12:55,775
-Can I bring a buddy?
-Yeah.
284
00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,402
Um, you go ahead.
285
00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:59,362
I'm gonna try and track down
this baby gift,
286
00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:01,031
see if we can figure out
who gave it to her.
287
00:13:01,114 --> 00:13:02,615
Great. I'm driving.
288
00:13:07,078 --> 00:13:08,621
-I'm sorry.
-All good.
289
00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:10,248
Old habits.
290
00:13:10,331 --> 00:13:12,250
By the way, if you want
your old spot back...
291
00:13:12,334 --> 00:13:14,544
No, no, no. I'm... I'm good.
292
00:13:14,627 --> 00:13:16,755
Got a clear view of the exit.
-Already trying to ditch us?
293
00:13:16,838 --> 00:13:18,548
No, in feng shui,
294
00:13:18,631 --> 00:13:22,552
this is what they call
the command position.
295
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:24,346
You learn something new
every day.
296
00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:30,477
Natalie was here
for almost a year.
297
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,396
But, honestly, she wasn't
the most reliable.
298
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,358
A lot of absences
with, frankly, lame excuses.
299
00:13:36,441 --> 00:13:37,776
Define lame.
300
00:13:37,901 --> 00:13:41,071
Uh, mystery illnesses
that suddenly got cured.
301
00:13:41,154 --> 00:13:42,447
Then her mom was sick,
302
00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:44,366
and she had to take care of her.
303
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:46,410
Other people around here
have the same experience?
304
00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:48,161
People think
she's sweet and all, I guess.
305
00:13:48,244 --> 00:13:51,581
She ever have any issues
with her supervisor?
306
00:13:51,748 --> 00:13:53,292
What did she say he did?
307
00:13:53,375 --> 00:13:55,335
Can't really get into details.
308
00:13:55,418 --> 00:13:59,547
For the record,
Eduardo's a stand-up guy.
309
00:13:59,631 --> 00:14:01,716
Everyone here loves him.
310
00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:03,843
Whatever Natalie said,
311
00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:07,598
I would take
with a monster grain of salt.
312
00:14:07,681 --> 00:14:09,891
There we go. Easy-peasy.
313
00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:12,603
Eduardo Perreira. Captain Curry.
314
00:14:12,686 --> 00:14:15,439
This is Detective Bruno with
the NYPD Special Victims Unit.
315
00:14:15,522 --> 00:14:17,857
Can we chat?
-Uh, of course.
316
00:14:17,982 --> 00:14:19,275
Everything okay?
317
00:14:19,401 --> 00:14:20,819
Just want to ask you
some questions
318
00:14:20,902 --> 00:14:22,571
about Natalie Tanzillo.
319
00:14:22,654 --> 00:14:24,489
Can you tell us what your
relationship was like with her?
320
00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,907
"Relationship"?
321
00:14:26,032 --> 00:14:28,076
I mean, she volunteered here
a couple months back.
322
00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:32,288
Why?
-Were you arrested in 2010?
323
00:14:32,372 --> 00:14:33,972
What does that have to do
with Natalie?
324
00:14:34,082 --> 00:14:36,084
Do you want to tell us
what happened?
325
00:14:39,087 --> 00:14:41,339
I was a dummy 19-year-old
freshman rushing to frat.
326
00:14:41,423 --> 00:14:44,968
They... they dared me
to streak through a quad.
327
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:48,096
Someone reported me, and I...
328
00:14:48,179 --> 00:14:50,015
My dad knows a couple people
in the DA's office.
329
00:14:50,098 --> 00:14:51,391
The charges were dropped.
330
00:14:51,474 --> 00:14:53,393
If you're glossing over
any of the finer details,
331
00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:55,729
we will find out.
-I'm married...
332
00:14:55,854 --> 00:14:57,898
to my husband.
333
00:14:57,981 --> 00:15:00,358
Look, honestly,
I felt sorry for her.
334
00:15:00,442 --> 00:15:02,444
She told me something bad
had happened to her,
335
00:15:02,527 --> 00:15:04,488
but she didn't say what exactly.
336
00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:05,947
I thought she might have had,
337
00:15:06,072 --> 00:15:07,783
like, a miscarriage
or something.
338
00:15:07,866 --> 00:15:10,202
When was this?
339
00:15:10,285 --> 00:15:13,121
When we first met,
maybe a year ago.
340
00:15:19,544 --> 00:15:22,005
Never get old, Lilly.
341
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:24,215
One day you're playing
Rachmaninoff,
342
00:15:24,341 --> 00:15:26,468
and the next,
you got hooves for hands.
343
00:15:26,593 --> 00:15:27,970
Lilly Braider.
344
00:15:28,053 --> 00:15:31,181
Hi. I'm Captain Benson.
This is Sergeant Rollins.
345
00:15:31,264 --> 00:15:33,600
We're from
the Special Victims Unit.
346
00:15:33,683 --> 00:15:35,393
-Should I be worried?
-No, not at all.
347
00:15:35,518 --> 00:15:37,395
We just wanted to ask you
some questions
348
00:15:37,479 --> 00:15:39,147
about Natalie Tanzillo.
349
00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:43,109
Think you can manage without me?
350
00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:44,402
Okay.
351
00:15:46,154 --> 00:15:48,865
So you were
a friend of Natalie's?
352
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,201
Uh, no, I wouldn't say that.
353
00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:53,161
But you did buy her a baby gift?
354
00:15:53,328 --> 00:15:57,123
We... we traced a-a custom onesie
to your credit card,
355
00:15:57,207 --> 00:16:00,043
purchased eight months ago.
356
00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:03,088
I wasn't her friend.
I was her doula.
357
00:16:03,213 --> 00:16:06,425
Oh, so Natalie was pregnant
eight months ago?
358
00:16:06,508 --> 00:16:09,136
No. I-I wouldn't say that.
359
00:16:09,219 --> 00:16:10,637
Um...
360
00:16:10,762 --> 00:16:13,556
is she under investigation?
361
00:16:13,682 --> 00:16:15,308
Why would you say that?
362
00:16:17,018 --> 00:16:19,271
Look, whatever she said
happened to her,
363
00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:21,189
if she told you
she was pregnant,
364
00:16:21,272 --> 00:16:23,483
if she told you she was raped,
don't believe any of it.
365
00:16:23,566 --> 00:16:25,860
Natalie is not a victim.
She's a predator.
366
00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:38,443
She told me she had been raped
367
00:16:38,527 --> 00:16:40,278
and that the baby was stillborn,
368
00:16:40,362 --> 00:16:42,239
that she was all alone.
369
00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:45,463
I just felt so sorry for her.
370
00:16:45,588 --> 00:16:47,257
And it's sort of custom
in the doula community
371
00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:49,593
to provide
compassionate support pro bono,
372
00:16:49,676 --> 00:16:51,428
so I didn't charge her.
373
00:16:51,511 --> 00:16:54,681
How did you, uh, find out
that the pregnancy wasn't real?
374
00:16:56,599 --> 00:16:59,019
Once the labor started...
375
00:16:59,102 --> 00:17:01,980
it was just this marathon.
376
00:17:02,063 --> 00:17:04,566
Hours and hours of contractions.
377
00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:06,317
And then they'd stop.
378
00:17:06,401 --> 00:17:08,528
And then as soon as I said
I was going home to sleep,
379
00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:09,904
they would start up again.
380
00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:12,074
And I-I cooked for her.
381
00:17:12,157 --> 00:17:14,325
I helped her dress.
382
00:17:16,661 --> 00:17:18,872
I helped her bathe.
383
00:17:18,955 --> 00:17:22,042
So disgusting.
I can't believe I fell for it.
384
00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:24,836
So, Lilly, if...
385
00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:27,339
Natalie did anything
that was inappropriate,
386
00:17:27,422 --> 00:17:30,800
that's... that's 100%
not your fault.
387
00:17:30,925 --> 00:17:33,261
She was manipulating you.
388
00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:42,395
On the third night, she...
389
00:17:42,479 --> 00:17:44,856
was like, oh, my feet hurt.
390
00:17:44,939 --> 00:17:46,441
Could you help me
with this ointment?
391
00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:48,610
So I was rubbing it on her feet.
392
00:17:48,777 --> 00:17:53,406
And then she said she wanted it
on her thighs, too.
393
00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:56,326
And then her hand started...
394
00:17:56,409 --> 00:17:58,661
moving,
395
00:17:58,787 --> 00:18:00,997
touching herself
between her legs.
396
00:18:01,081 --> 00:18:03,500
And she started, like...
397
00:18:03,583 --> 00:18:06,503
moaning.
398
00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:09,339
I couldn't move.
I just felt really trapped.
399
00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:11,466
And Natalie could tell
that she had crossed a line
400
00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:13,302
because she kept rambling on
how she read somewhere
401
00:18:13,385 --> 00:18:15,929
that stimulation could induce
labor, but I-I don't know.
402
00:18:16,012 --> 00:18:17,347
I-I just packed up and left.
403
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:20,309
So, Lilly,
what you're describing
404
00:18:20,392 --> 00:18:22,769
is... is sexual abuse.
405
00:18:22,936 --> 00:18:24,521
No.
406
00:18:24,604 --> 00:18:26,315
It was really messed up,
but it wasn't that.
407
00:18:26,398 --> 00:18:27,649
It's exactly that.
408
00:18:27,732 --> 00:18:30,360
Imagine hearing
a story like this,
409
00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:32,696
except switch the sexes.
410
00:18:32,779 --> 00:18:34,989
Your friend tells you
that a man did this to her,
411
00:18:35,073 --> 00:18:36,533
what are you gonna tell her?
412
00:18:39,494 --> 00:18:42,080
She's done this
to someone else, hasn't she?
413
00:18:42,205 --> 00:18:45,083
To another doula.
That's why you're here.
414
00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:47,419
How many?
415
00:18:47,502 --> 00:18:49,879
To be honest...
416
00:18:50,005 --> 00:18:54,175
we didn't know it was a pattern
until we... we talked to you.
417
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:55,594
Um, there's a message group
418
00:18:55,677 --> 00:18:57,554
with other doulas
here in the city.
419
00:18:57,637 --> 00:18:59,389
I can send a message
if you think that would help.
420
00:18:59,472 --> 00:19:01,349
That would be very helpful.
421
00:19:06,146 --> 00:19:07,897
So she's conning doulas
422
00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:10,233
into coaching
phantom pregnancies?
423
00:19:10,358 --> 00:19:12,402
What the hell does she
get out of this?
424
00:19:12,485 --> 00:19:14,988
Victims. She's found women
who aren't medically trained,
425
00:19:15,071 --> 00:19:16,865
no supervision,
and a lot of time alone.
426
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:18,199
It's sex offenders 101.
427
00:19:18,283 --> 00:19:20,535
She's like a...
an empathy vampire.
428
00:19:20,618 --> 00:19:22,078
I mean, she feeds off of it.
429
00:19:22,162 --> 00:19:23,955
She makes up a ton of trauma,
430
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,291
and then she finds women
whose job it is
431
00:19:26,374 --> 00:19:28,460
to be empathetic
and compassionate and helpful,
432
00:19:28,543 --> 00:19:30,545
and then she takes advantage
of them
433
00:19:30,628 --> 00:19:32,547
for her own
sexual gratification.
434
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:34,299
Remember when Natalie
didn't want the ambulance
435
00:19:34,382 --> 00:19:35,967
to take her
to Northwell Greenwich?
436
00:19:36,051 --> 00:19:37,552
What do you want to bet
she's a frequent flyer there?
437
00:19:37,635 --> 00:19:38,762
They know her scam.
438
00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,388
Well, not to channel my husband,
439
00:19:40,472 --> 00:19:42,098
but charging her
is gonna be tricky.
440
00:19:42,182 --> 00:19:43,600
Lilly's case is straightforward.
441
00:19:43,683 --> 00:19:45,060
Right.
442
00:19:45,143 --> 00:19:48,063
But it is also true
that one way to start labor
443
00:19:48,146 --> 00:19:49,898
is to have an orgasm.
444
00:19:49,981 --> 00:19:52,275
There was no baby.
There was no labor.
445
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,777
They will argue that she thought
446
00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:55,320
that she was pregnant.
447
00:19:55,403 --> 00:19:57,906
Look, Lilly and Anika
worked for free,
448
00:19:58,031 --> 00:20:00,242
when they could have taken on
real paying clients.
449
00:20:00,325 --> 00:20:02,619
So Carisi could charge her
with financial fraud.
450
00:20:02,744 --> 00:20:05,663
But I want to charge her
as a predator.
451
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,585
Captain, some women
were asking for you.
452
00:20:09,668 --> 00:20:12,671
They're doulas.
453
00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:24,933
Wow, so...
454
00:20:25,016 --> 00:20:29,813
so you all know
Natalie Tanzillo?
455
00:20:29,896 --> 00:20:32,565
This is just who could make
it here today.
456
00:20:32,649 --> 00:20:35,485
There are more... a lot more.
457
00:20:40,615 --> 00:20:42,159
Karina Harpole...
458
00:20:42,242 --> 00:20:44,077
coached Natalie over FaceTime,
459
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,454
which is not an uncommon
practice for doulas.
460
00:20:46,538 --> 00:20:50,083
Natalie kept her on the phone
for 12 to 14 hours
461
00:20:50,166 --> 00:20:52,127
for almost a week.
462
00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:54,671
And then Karina
threatened to call 911,
463
00:20:54,754 --> 00:20:56,882
so she finally agreed
to go to the hospital.
464
00:20:56,965 --> 00:20:59,134
A couple hours later,
she tells Karina
465
00:20:59,217 --> 00:21:02,387
that she's been sexually
assaulted by the paramedic,
466
00:21:02,512 --> 00:21:04,556
right, on the way
to the hospital because...
467
00:21:04,639 --> 00:21:06,516
because of course.
468
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:07,892
Is this woman for real?
469
00:21:08,059 --> 00:21:10,061
Three doulas, including Karina,
470
00:21:10,186 --> 00:21:13,523
report that Natalie masturbated
while FaceTiming them.
471
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:16,109
Uh, Lydia Guerrera said that
Natalie fell in the shower.
472
00:21:16,192 --> 00:21:17,527
When she rushed in to help,
473
00:21:17,610 --> 00:21:19,654
Natalie was on the floor
rubbing her nipples.
474
00:21:19,821 --> 00:21:21,906
She said that she heard
that it could induce labor.
475
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:24,826
And she used the same, uh,
defense on a handful of others.
476
00:21:24,909 --> 00:21:27,454
I mean, Carisi,
this is 30 doulas
477
00:21:27,537 --> 00:21:29,873
that were hired
under the same false pretenses
478
00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:31,875
and 7 counts of sexual abuse.
479
00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:33,877
I mean, that's... that's got
to be enough data points.
480
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,712
I can charge her
with scheme to defraud.
481
00:21:35,795 --> 00:21:37,213
That's a... that's a felony.
482
00:21:37,297 --> 00:21:39,007
But the shower stuff
is public lewdness maybe.
483
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:40,550
Again, misdemeanor.
484
00:21:40,717 --> 00:21:42,928
Neither of which are enough
to get her on the sex registry.
485
00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:45,555
And because sex abuse one
is tough.
486
00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:48,224
Look, we need to prove
forcible compulsion.
487
00:21:48,308 --> 00:21:51,019
Did Natalie, at any point,
force these women to touch her?
488
00:21:51,102 --> 00:21:54,064
Yeah, okay, so Lydia said
that Natalie
489
00:21:54,147 --> 00:21:56,441
tried to pull her hand
towards her.
490
00:21:56,566 --> 00:21:58,276
I mean, I might be able
to get a jury
491
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,070
to believe that
that's forcible compulsion,
492
00:22:00,195 --> 00:22:02,030
but you got half
your victims here
493
00:22:02,113 --> 00:22:03,531
on the record saying
494
00:22:03,615 --> 00:22:05,492
that they're not even sure
what they saw.
495
00:22:05,575 --> 00:22:07,285
Carisi, if Natalie were a man,
496
00:22:07,369 --> 00:22:09,579
we wouldn't even be having
this conversation.
497
00:22:09,662 --> 00:22:12,082
He would've been on the sex
offenders registry yesterday.
498
00:22:12,207 --> 00:22:13,792
You don't need to convince me.
499
00:22:13,875 --> 00:22:16,086
I know she's a predator,
but a jury's a different story.
500
00:22:16,169 --> 00:22:17,588
All right?
You all know the stats.
501
00:22:17,671 --> 00:22:19,047
There is a reason that only 2%
502
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:20,840
of registered sex offenders
are female.
503
00:22:20,924 --> 00:22:23,677
Yeah, and the sheer volume of
women that Natalie victimized
504
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,679
proves that she deserves
to be among them.
505
00:22:25,762 --> 00:22:26,888
What is the one constant
506
00:22:26,971 --> 00:22:29,265
across all these
victim statements?
507
00:22:29,391 --> 00:22:32,352
-That the baby was stillborn.
-No, that Natalie was raped.
508
00:22:32,477 --> 00:22:34,855
And even the most mediocre
defense attorney on the planet
509
00:22:34,938 --> 00:22:36,523
will know to squeeze
the word "assault"
510
00:22:36,606 --> 00:22:38,483
for every teardrop of sympathy
it's worth.
511
00:22:38,566 --> 00:22:42,278
Okay. Okay. So you tell me,
what is our strategy now?
512
00:22:42,362 --> 00:22:44,072
You got to get her
to corroborate
513
00:22:44,197 --> 00:22:46,324
some of the details
in these doulas' stories or...
514
00:22:46,408 --> 00:22:48,076
or admit that she forced them
to touch her.
515
00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:49,244
Natalie is smart.
516
00:22:49,327 --> 00:22:51,246
The minute we try
to lock her into a story,
517
00:22:51,329 --> 00:22:53,123
she's gonna weasel her way out.
-Mm-hmm.
518
00:22:53,289 --> 00:22:54,624
I don't know about that.
519
00:22:54,708 --> 00:22:56,793
Liv's got a way of getting
people to open up,
520
00:22:56,876 --> 00:22:59,421
even the guilty ones.
521
00:22:59,504 --> 00:23:01,798
Your superpower is empathy.
522
00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:04,134
This time, use it as a weapon.
523
00:23:17,063 --> 00:23:20,775
So the precinct can get
so chilly sometimes.
524
00:23:22,482 --> 00:23:24,072
Here you go.
-Thank you.
525
00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:27,576
-Can I get you a blanket?
-No, this is perfect.
526
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:31,539
Your office is... is so nice.
-Oh, thank you.
527
00:23:31,623 --> 00:23:33,458
You know,
it's so important to me
528
00:23:33,542 --> 00:23:36,212
to make everyone feel,
you know, comfortable
529
00:23:36,296 --> 00:23:39,466
and welcome and, you know, cozy.
530
00:23:41,428 --> 00:23:45,724
So, Natalie, I've been thinking
a lot about you.
531
00:23:46,051 --> 00:23:47,260
-Really?
-Yeah.
532
00:23:47,344 --> 00:23:49,888
I, um...
533
00:23:49,971 --> 00:23:52,599
thinking about everything
that you've been through
534
00:23:52,682 --> 00:23:55,352
and how... how much courage
it took.
535
00:23:55,435 --> 00:23:58,938
And so I thought it would just
be nice for us to, you know,
536
00:23:59,022 --> 00:24:02,442
sit down and talk
about how to help you
537
00:24:02,567 --> 00:24:06,363
move into the next chapter
of your life.
538
00:24:11,451 --> 00:24:13,745
That means so much to me.
539
00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:15,538
Thank you, Captain Benson.
540
00:24:15,663 --> 00:24:16,956
You're welcome.
541
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,375
God, you're so good
at what you do.
542
00:24:18,458 --> 00:24:19,959
Oh, thank you.
543
00:24:20,043 --> 00:24:24,214
And I have some incredible news
for you.
544
00:24:24,339 --> 00:24:26,091
Yeah?
545
00:24:26,174 --> 00:24:28,343
We found the man
who assaulted you.
546
00:24:31,304 --> 00:24:32,514
Oh.
547
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:33,932
W-wow.
548
00:24:34,015 --> 00:24:36,184
His name is Eduardo Perreira,
549
00:24:36,267 --> 00:24:39,479
and you worked with him
at the nonprofit.
550
00:24:39,562 --> 00:24:41,898
Um, yeah.
551
00:24:41,981 --> 00:24:45,360
And I have enough to arrest him,
552
00:24:45,443 --> 00:24:47,612
and I'm gonna put him away
for a very long time.
553
00:24:47,696 --> 00:24:49,948
I'm so sorry, Captain,
554
00:24:50,031 --> 00:24:51,991
but, um...
555
00:24:52,117 --> 00:24:53,702
Eduardo didn't do anything.
556
00:24:53,785 --> 00:24:55,078
He's a good man.
557
00:24:55,203 --> 00:24:57,580
Natalie, you don't have to be
afraid of him.
558
00:24:57,664 --> 00:24:59,917
No, seriously, he...
559
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,043
he didn't...
he didn't do anything.
560
00:25:02,127 --> 00:25:03,795
It's... it's not him.
561
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:07,215
Okay.
562
00:25:09,509 --> 00:25:11,303
I'm sorry.
It is a little chilly.
563
00:25:11,386 --> 00:25:13,847
Could I... could I actually get
that blanket, please?
564
00:25:13,930 --> 00:25:15,849
-Oh, of course.
-Thanks.
565
00:25:15,932 --> 00:25:17,058
Of course.
566
00:25:22,063 --> 00:25:24,899
Here you go.
Get it just right for you.
567
00:25:24,983 --> 00:25:27,193
-Thanks.
-Yeah.
568
00:25:27,277 --> 00:25:30,071
Good?
-Yeah.
569
00:25:30,155 --> 00:25:31,740
Good. Good.
570
00:25:31,865 --> 00:25:33,616
So...
571
00:25:33,742 --> 00:25:37,787
All right, your rape was
eight... eight months ago, right?
572
00:25:37,871 --> 00:25:40,665
Um, five, actually.
573
00:25:40,749 --> 00:25:43,084
Five?
574
00:25:43,168 --> 00:25:45,503
Oh, okay, so then...
then I'm a little confused.
575
00:25:45,587 --> 00:25:47,589
Maybe you can help me
clear this up.
576
00:25:47,672 --> 00:25:51,217
So if... so if your rape was
five months ago,
577
00:25:51,301 --> 00:25:54,763
why did you hire Lilly Braider
eight months ago?
578
00:25:56,473 --> 00:25:58,308
Lilly.
579
00:25:58,391 --> 00:26:00,643
Why are you talking to Lilly?
580
00:26:00,727 --> 00:26:03,730
'Cause, Natalie, look,
like I said before,
581
00:26:03,855 --> 00:26:06,066
when I have nothing to go on,
582
00:26:06,191 --> 00:26:09,778
I have to dig
into every single detail...
583
00:26:09,861 --> 00:26:11,112
everything.
584
00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:14,157
And like you so, you know,
kindly observed,
585
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,911
I am... I am very good at my job.
586
00:26:19,954 --> 00:26:22,165
Yeah.
587
00:26:22,248 --> 00:26:26,336
Well, I-I found Lilly, um...
588
00:26:26,419 --> 00:26:28,546
when I had a pregnancy scare.
589
00:26:31,299 --> 00:26:33,802
After a sexual assault?
590
00:26:33,927 --> 00:26:35,762
Wait.
591
00:26:35,845 --> 00:26:37,514
Wait, another one?
592
00:26:37,597 --> 00:26:39,891
I... you know,
I-I can't remember.
593
00:26:39,974 --> 00:26:43,353
Oh, I know.
And then, you know...
594
00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:47,190
trauma affects
our memories, right?
595
00:26:47,273 --> 00:26:50,402
Natalie, I need you
to dig deep here,
596
00:26:50,485 --> 00:26:53,321
to dig really deep and tell me.
597
00:26:53,405 --> 00:26:57,701
Were you raped five months ago
or eight months ago?
598
00:26:57,784 --> 00:26:59,869
Or a year ago?
599
00:26:59,994 --> 00:27:02,455
Or 18 months ago,
like another doula had said?
600
00:27:02,539 --> 00:27:04,457
Please, I-I-I don't like this.
601
00:27:04,582 --> 00:27:06,501
I know it's hard. It's so hard.
602
00:27:06,584 --> 00:27:08,461
I-I get it.
603
00:27:08,545 --> 00:27:11,506
But, listen, with truth...
604
00:27:11,589 --> 00:27:14,092
comes trust.
605
00:27:14,175 --> 00:27:17,387
And if you want someone
to, you know...
606
00:27:17,470 --> 00:27:19,431
to really care about you,
607
00:27:19,514 --> 00:27:23,852
to really empathize with you...
608
00:27:23,935 --> 00:27:26,730
then you have to be, you know...
609
00:27:26,813 --> 00:27:29,691
actually honest.
610
00:27:29,816 --> 00:27:32,694
So...
611
00:27:32,819 --> 00:27:35,864
do you think... do you think
you can do that for me?
612
00:27:40,493 --> 00:27:42,370
So, Natalie...
613
00:27:45,165 --> 00:27:47,250
Were you ever...
614
00:27:47,334 --> 00:27:50,211
you know, really raped?
615
00:28:03,475 --> 00:28:06,561
Would you mind getting me
a little bit more tea?
616
00:28:06,644 --> 00:28:08,438
It's really nice.
617
00:28:08,521 --> 00:28:11,066
Is it vanilla?
618
00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:19,783
Thank you.
619
00:28:23,661 --> 00:28:28,249
You know, people tell me
that my superpower is...
620
00:28:28,333 --> 00:28:30,294
is empathy.
621
00:28:30,377 --> 00:28:32,587
But you know what else
I'm really good at?
622
00:28:35,173 --> 00:28:38,135
Noticing when someone's
lying to my face.
623
00:28:38,218 --> 00:28:41,596
And I know that
you're doing that.
624
00:28:41,721 --> 00:28:43,765
You were never
sexually assaulted, Natalie,
625
00:28:43,848 --> 00:28:47,644
and you've given me
enough details to prove it.
626
00:28:47,727 --> 00:28:49,813
Why are you being so mean to me?
627
00:28:49,896 --> 00:28:51,314
I am a victim.
628
00:28:51,398 --> 00:28:53,983
No, Natalie,
you're not a victim.
629
00:28:54,109 --> 00:28:56,945
You're an abuser.
630
00:28:57,070 --> 00:29:01,366
And you targeted
and used these women.
631
00:29:01,449 --> 00:29:04,327
You used them for their empathy
632
00:29:04,411 --> 00:29:06,455
and for their kindness
633
00:29:06,538 --> 00:29:10,542
because you liked the way
it made you feel.
634
00:29:12,544 --> 00:29:14,462
But you're done.
635
00:29:14,546 --> 00:29:16,464
You're done.
636
00:29:18,842 --> 00:29:21,553
You're under arrest, Natalie.
Get up.
637
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,840
Your Honor, I am handing up
the indictment
638
00:29:37,924 --> 00:29:40,051
and serving a copy
on the defendant,
639
00:29:40,135 --> 00:29:43,013
who is being charged with
scheme to defraud, 30 victims,
640
00:29:43,097 --> 00:29:44,766
and 7 counts of sexual assault.
641
00:29:45,043 --> 00:29:46,711
Defendant acknowledges receipt
642
00:29:46,795 --> 00:29:48,463
and enters a plea of not guilty.
643
00:29:48,547 --> 00:29:50,132
-Motions?
-Yes, Your Honor.
644
00:29:50,216 --> 00:29:52,844
Pursuant to CPL Section 250.10,
645
00:29:52,928 --> 00:29:56,098
I'm giving notice of our intent
to present psychiatric evidence
646
00:29:56,306 --> 00:29:57,808
on the affirmative defense
647
00:29:57,892 --> 00:30:00,130
of lack
of criminal responsibility
648
00:30:00,214 --> 00:30:02,684
by reason of mental defect
or disease.
649
00:30:02,768 --> 00:30:05,103
And what specific defect
are we talking about here?
650
00:30:07,956 --> 00:30:11,626
It's all there
in Dr. Oshiro's report.
651
00:30:18,444 --> 00:30:20,157
Dr. Oshiro,
what were your conclusions
652
00:30:20,241 --> 00:30:23,494
after your psychological
evaluation of Natalie Tanzillo?
653
00:30:23,578 --> 00:30:25,610
It's my professional opinion
that Natalie meets
654
00:30:25,694 --> 00:30:27,320
the diagnostic criteria
655
00:30:27,404 --> 00:30:29,740
for factitious disorder
imposed on self.
656
00:30:29,824 --> 00:30:33,160
Now, can you please explain
this disorder in layman terms?
657
00:30:33,305 --> 00:30:34,931
It used to be known colloquially
658
00:30:35,015 --> 00:30:36,850
as Munchausen syndrome.
659
00:30:36,934 --> 00:30:39,102
Someone like Natalie
deliberately fabricates
660
00:30:39,186 --> 00:30:41,230
or exaggerates
physical symptoms,
661
00:30:41,473 --> 00:30:43,350
driven by a psychological need
662
00:30:43,434 --> 00:30:45,686
to adopt the role
of a sick person.
663
00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:47,763
Would you call her a liar?
664
00:30:47,847 --> 00:30:48,773
No.
665
00:30:48,857 --> 00:30:52,634
Uh, anything untrue she says
is rooted in mental illness.
666
00:30:52,718 --> 00:30:55,263
She has no awareness
that her fabrications
667
00:30:55,347 --> 00:30:57,432
can and do cause harm to others.
668
00:30:57,516 --> 00:30:59,399
And in your
professional opinion,
669
00:30:59,483 --> 00:31:03,153
can Natalie be held responsible
for causing that harm?
670
00:31:03,256 --> 00:31:03,940
No.
671
00:31:04,024 --> 00:31:06,939
A person with this disorder
is so overwhelmed
672
00:31:07,023 --> 00:31:09,650
by the compulsion
that nothing else matters.
673
00:31:09,734 --> 00:31:12,070
Nothing further.
Thank you, Doctor.
674
00:31:13,833 --> 00:31:15,043
Your witness.
675
00:31:15,127 --> 00:31:16,337
Dr. Oshiro,
676
00:31:16,421 --> 00:31:18,798
uh, in 30 years
of practicing psychiatry,
677
00:31:18,882 --> 00:31:20,843
how many patients
have you treated?
678
00:31:20,927 --> 00:31:22,790
Ballpark estimate's fine.
679
00:31:22,874 --> 00:31:26,249
-Oh, I'd say close to 30,000.
-That's impressive.
680
00:31:26,333 --> 00:31:27,884
And, uh, of those 30,000,
681
00:31:27,968 --> 00:31:30,971
how many have you diagnosed
with factitious disorder?
682
00:31:31,115 --> 00:31:32,784
5, including Ms. Tanzillo.
683
00:31:32,874 --> 00:31:33,868
5 out of 30,000?
684
00:31:33,952 --> 00:31:36,604
So factitious disorder
really is that rare?
685
00:31:36,688 --> 00:31:38,325
It can be difficult to diagnose.
686
00:31:38,409 --> 00:31:42,194
Hmm. Are there any illnesses
that have similar symptoms?
687
00:31:42,391 --> 00:31:45,394
It can sometimes be confused
with malingering.
688
00:31:45,478 --> 00:31:47,522
"Malingering"? What is that?
689
00:31:47,606 --> 00:31:50,358
Well, malingering involves
faking symptoms
690
00:31:50,442 --> 00:31:53,779
for an obvious external reward,
such as money,
691
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,958
avoiding work,
or evading criminal charges.
692
00:31:57,042 --> 00:31:58,710
Could you give the jury
an example
693
00:31:58,793 --> 00:32:00,754
of, uh, the difference
between the two?
694
00:32:00,879 --> 00:32:02,964
Say a child lies
about being sick
695
00:32:03,048 --> 00:32:05,050
to avoid taking a test
at school.
696
00:32:05,175 --> 00:32:06,260
That's malingering.
697
00:32:06,343 --> 00:32:08,428
Now, if the child just wants
to stay home
698
00:32:08,511 --> 00:32:11,014
and be cared for
or get attention for being ill,
699
00:32:11,097 --> 00:32:12,724
that could be
factitious disorder.
700
00:32:12,807 --> 00:32:14,768
"Could be"...
so even you're not sure.
701
00:32:14,851 --> 00:32:16,770
Withdrawn.
702
00:32:16,853 --> 00:32:20,273
Dr. Oshiro, you mentioned
external rewards.
703
00:32:20,357 --> 00:32:23,401
Can sexual gratification be
an external reward?
704
00:32:23,526 --> 00:32:26,571
-Yes, although that's...
-Thank you. That's all I need.
705
00:32:26,696 --> 00:32:28,573
One more question.
706
00:32:28,656 --> 00:32:31,493
You said evading
criminal charges
707
00:32:31,618 --> 00:32:34,496
can also be viewed
as an external reward, correct?
708
00:32:34,621 --> 00:32:35,914
I did.
709
00:32:35,997 --> 00:32:38,833
Dr. Oshiro,
in your professional opinion,
710
00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:40,877
isn't that exactly
what is happening
711
00:32:41,002 --> 00:32:43,171
in this very courtroom?
-Objection. Argumentative.
712
00:32:43,254 --> 00:32:45,131
Sustained.
713
00:32:45,215 --> 00:32:46,424
Nothing further.
714
00:32:51,471 --> 00:32:53,473
Why would you tell
multiple doulas
715
00:32:53,598 --> 00:32:56,851
you were pregnant
when you weren't?
716
00:32:56,976 --> 00:32:58,520
They were...
717
00:32:58,603 --> 00:33:01,064
they were so nice...
718
00:33:01,147 --> 00:33:05,360
so good to me,
and I think I needed that...
719
00:33:05,443 --> 00:33:07,696
to be taken care of.
720
00:33:09,447 --> 00:33:13,326
But if I had known how much
it was damaging them,
721
00:33:13,410 --> 00:33:15,620
how much I was hurting them,
722
00:33:15,745 --> 00:33:19,124
then I never would have done
any of it.
723
00:33:19,249 --> 00:33:22,136
Now, Mr. Carisi will say
724
00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:24,681
that you made up
your pregnancies
725
00:33:24,765 --> 00:33:26,475
in order to trick the doulas
726
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,938
into some
sexual-gratification scheme.
727
00:33:30,089 --> 00:33:32,091
Is there any truth to that?
-Of course not.
728
00:33:32,175 --> 00:33:33,676
I...
729
00:33:36,349 --> 00:33:39,477
What I did was wrong,
and I know that now.
730
00:33:39,561 --> 00:33:41,396
You must think
that it was sick of me
731
00:33:41,479 --> 00:33:43,565
to do it
in the first place, and...
732
00:33:45,859 --> 00:33:48,194
I am so sorry.
733
00:33:48,278 --> 00:33:49,988
I am sick.
734
00:33:50,113 --> 00:33:51,740
I have an illness.
735
00:33:53,658 --> 00:33:55,744
But I am... I am not a pervert.
736
00:33:55,869 --> 00:33:58,246
Thank you, Natalie.
737
00:33:58,371 --> 00:34:00,582
No further questions,
Your Honor.
738
00:34:03,001 --> 00:34:05,587
Ms. Tanzillo...
739
00:34:07,505 --> 00:34:11,926
Of the 150 birthing doulas
that you follow on Instagram,
740
00:34:12,052 --> 00:34:14,512
how did you land
on the... the ones you hired?
741
00:34:14,596 --> 00:34:16,556
Um...
742
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,267
I-I don't know.
Uh, whoever seemed kind.
743
00:34:19,392 --> 00:34:21,019
"Seemed kind."
744
00:34:21,144 --> 00:34:24,314
Um, more than half of them had
under six months of experience,
745
00:34:24,397 --> 00:34:26,566
so maybe they seemed gullible.
746
00:34:26,649 --> 00:34:29,152
-Objection. Argumentative.
-Sustained.
747
00:34:29,277 --> 00:34:30,945
Captain Olivia Benson
748
00:34:31,071 --> 00:34:32,698
of the Manhattan
Special Victims Unit
749
00:34:32,781 --> 00:34:34,908
testified that
you claimed to have been
750
00:34:34,991 --> 00:34:37,452
sexually assaulted
by a former coworker.
751
00:34:37,535 --> 00:34:39,788
-I said that, but...
-An assault that you recanted
752
00:34:39,871 --> 00:34:42,624
only after the detectives told
you that they were prepared
753
00:34:42,707 --> 00:34:44,292
to arrest
your former supervisor.
754
00:34:44,417 --> 00:34:46,461
-I-I would really like to...
-Let me finish.
755
00:34:46,544 --> 00:34:49,422
Why didn't you just let
Captain Benson arrest that guy?
756
00:34:49,547 --> 00:34:51,592
Objection.
My client is not responsible
757
00:34:51,675 --> 00:34:53,802
for deciding who does
or does not get arrested.
758
00:34:53,885 --> 00:34:56,054
We all know why defense
counsel doesn't want her client
759
00:34:56,137 --> 00:34:58,056
to answer, Your Honor,
but this is a proper question.
760
00:34:58,139 --> 00:34:59,557
The witness can answer.
761
00:35:02,143 --> 00:35:05,021
I'm... I'm so sorry. I-I forgot
what the question was.
762
00:35:05,105 --> 00:35:06,981
Oh, I'm happy to remind you.
763
00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:09,484
Why not just let the police
764
00:35:09,567 --> 00:35:11,403
arrest your former boss
for rape?
765
00:35:11,528 --> 00:35:13,196
Because he didn't do it.
766
00:35:13,279 --> 00:35:16,116
-Who cares?
-I do.
767
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:18,993
That would... that would be
wrong, and... and to be clear...
768
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:20,620
Wait, hold on.
769
00:35:20,704 --> 00:35:23,331
I'm confused here,
because didn't Dr. Oshiro say
770
00:35:23,456 --> 00:35:26,334
that your disorder
prevents you from knowing
771
00:35:26,418 --> 00:35:29,337
your fabrications can
and do cause harm to others?
772
00:35:29,421 --> 00:35:31,173
That's what he said.
773
00:35:31,256 --> 00:35:32,466
He... he did, but...
774
00:35:32,549 --> 00:35:34,175
Thank you
for answering the question,
775
00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:35,760
Ms. Tanzillo.
776
00:35:35,885 --> 00:35:37,971
I appreciate that.
777
00:35:38,054 --> 00:35:40,640
Now, Lilly Braider testified
778
00:35:40,724 --> 00:35:43,393
that after feigning labor
for three days,
779
00:35:43,476 --> 00:35:45,729
you asked her
to rub your thighs.
780
00:35:45,812 --> 00:35:48,064
Is that true?
-Yes.
781
00:35:48,148 --> 00:35:50,108
And you were only wearing
a thin covering
782
00:35:50,191 --> 00:35:52,110
over your body
that you tried to remove?
783
00:35:52,235 --> 00:35:53,987
I-I was wearing pajamas.
784
00:35:54,112 --> 00:35:57,032
Did you pull her hand
or otherwise restrain her
785
00:35:57,115 --> 00:35:59,701
while she was rubbing your legs?
786
00:35:59,784 --> 00:36:01,411
I don't remember
ever doing that.
787
00:36:01,494 --> 00:36:03,914
Did you stimulate your genitals
788
00:36:03,997 --> 00:36:05,832
in front of Ms. Braider?
789
00:36:05,957 --> 00:36:08,043
Dr. Oshiro said that was
because of my illness.
790
00:36:08,168 --> 00:36:10,003
Your illness
makes you masturbate
791
00:36:10,128 --> 00:36:11,921
in front of a virtual stranger?
-No, no.
792
00:36:12,005 --> 00:36:13,798
They say that it can trigger
contractions.
793
00:36:13,923 --> 00:36:16,718
"Contractions"? For a baby
that you knew did not exist?
794
00:36:16,801 --> 00:36:19,304
-But I wanted it to.
-You wanted to have a baby?
795
00:36:19,387 --> 00:36:21,973
Dr. Oshiro said that it was
part of my compulsion.
796
00:36:22,057 --> 00:36:23,767
No, no, again, Dr. Oshiro said
797
00:36:23,850 --> 00:36:25,477
that people with that disorder
798
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,312
do not understand
that their lies hurt others.
799
00:36:27,395 --> 00:36:28,730
You do understand that.
800
00:36:28,855 --> 00:36:30,607
What is this,
a psychology lesson?
801
00:36:30,690 --> 00:36:33,485
Ask a question, Mr. Carisi.
802
00:36:33,568 --> 00:36:35,862
Ms. Tanzillo...
803
00:36:35,945 --> 00:36:37,947
why did you hire 30 doulas?
804
00:36:42,744 --> 00:36:46,498
I just wanted to feel
like somebody cared about me.
805
00:36:46,581 --> 00:36:49,251
And why'd you have them
touch your body?
806
00:36:49,334 --> 00:36:51,544
I just...
807
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:54,422
I-I just liked how it felt.
808
00:36:54,506 --> 00:36:57,509
And is that why you
stimulated yourself sexually
809
00:36:57,592 --> 00:36:59,636
in front of them... because you
liked how that felt, too?
810
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,513
I don't... I don't...
I don't know.
811
00:37:01,638 --> 00:37:04,057
And is that not the definition
812
00:37:04,182 --> 00:37:06,559
of sexual gratification
at their expense?
813
00:37:06,643 --> 00:37:08,103
Objection.
814
00:37:08,186 --> 00:37:09,854
Withdrawn.
815
00:37:15,026 --> 00:37:17,529
Nothing further.
816
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,207
We got a verdict?
-Not yet.
817
00:37:29,290 --> 00:37:31,292
But Tanzillo's defense attorney
is here to see you.
818
00:37:31,418 --> 00:37:32,627
Let her in.
819
00:37:36,089 --> 00:37:38,883
What can I do for you?
Sit... sit down, please.
820
00:37:38,967 --> 00:37:40,885
-Feeling good?
-Eh, I've been worse.
821
00:37:40,969 --> 00:37:43,555
Jury's taking
its time, isn't it?
822
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,307
Well, I'm happy to wait 'em out.
823
00:37:46,391 --> 00:37:49,978
Sympathetic defendant,
shaky felony charge at best.
824
00:37:50,061 --> 00:37:52,397
You really think waiting it
out's your best move?
825
00:37:52,522 --> 00:37:55,150
You know you don't
have a home run either.
826
00:37:55,233 --> 00:37:56,693
Otherwise, you wouldn't be here.
827
00:37:56,776 --> 00:37:58,278
So what are you offering?
828
00:37:58,361 --> 00:38:01,156
My client pleads guilty
on all counts of fraud.
829
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:02,824
Okay, what
about the other charges?
830
00:38:02,907 --> 00:38:04,409
No other charges.
831
00:38:04,492 --> 00:38:07,412
She walks on all seven counts
of sexual abuse.
832
00:38:07,495 --> 00:38:10,331
Sex offender registry's
off the table.
833
00:38:10,457 --> 00:38:12,334
You're selling me
a ham sandwich,
834
00:38:12,459 --> 00:38:14,586
and you're telling me
it's a Reuben.
835
00:38:14,669 --> 00:38:16,338
Come on, Andrea, really?
836
00:38:16,463 --> 00:38:17,839
Hmm.
837
00:38:17,964 --> 00:38:20,258
I think it's kind of sweet
this office hasn't killed
838
00:38:20,383 --> 00:38:22,969
that twinkle in your eye
just yet.
839
00:38:23,053 --> 00:38:25,055
Well, maybe I know
what I'm up against.
840
00:38:25,138 --> 00:38:26,973
And I don't think
it's time to quit.
841
00:38:30,643 --> 00:38:33,897
One juror, that's all I need.
842
00:38:34,022 --> 00:38:36,274
But 12?
843
00:38:36,399 --> 00:38:38,276
Good luck with that.
844
00:38:43,823 --> 00:38:46,576
So what's with
the surprise morning visit?
845
00:38:46,659 --> 00:38:49,746
We got a verdict?
-No. Um...
846
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:52,123
Vargas approached me
with a deal...
847
00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:54,250
guilty on all fraud counts...
-Okay.
848
00:38:54,334 --> 00:38:57,545
If, uh... if we drop
the sex-abuse charges.
849
00:38:59,798 --> 00:39:01,216
Are you kidding me?
850
00:39:01,299 --> 00:39:04,136
What... and she gets off
with what...
851
00:39:04,219 --> 00:39:06,805
probation, a slap on the wrist?
852
00:39:06,888 --> 00:39:08,056
Yeah.
853
00:39:10,934 --> 00:39:15,730
Uh, Carisi, she abused
30 women that we know of.
854
00:39:15,855 --> 00:39:19,943
And the real number
is likely higher.
855
00:39:20,068 --> 00:39:21,611
She is a predator...
-Mm-hmm.
856
00:39:21,736 --> 00:39:23,613
Who is not going to stop
until... until she's
857
00:39:23,697 --> 00:39:25,073
on the registry list.
858
00:39:25,198 --> 00:39:27,158
Liv...
859
00:39:27,283 --> 00:39:30,829
I need you to think
about what happens
860
00:39:30,912 --> 00:39:33,248
if the jury lets her off
on all counts.
861
00:39:33,373 --> 00:39:34,582
Oh.
862
00:39:34,666 --> 00:39:36,209
How's that gonna make you feel?
863
00:39:36,334 --> 00:39:37,878
You really think
that's where we are now?
864
00:39:37,961 --> 00:39:39,337
2%, Liv.
865
00:39:39,462 --> 00:39:41,965
Those are your odds.
866
00:39:42,090 --> 00:39:43,717
And if we do this deal,
867
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,886
I should be able to get
five years of probation.
868
00:39:45,969 --> 00:39:47,804
So, if Natalie reoffends...
-And we know that she will.
869
00:39:47,887 --> 00:39:49,681
Yeah, and when she does,
we'll lock her up
870
00:39:49,764 --> 00:39:51,808
for the violation of probation
and the new sex crime.
871
00:39:51,891 --> 00:39:53,894
If she refuses to go
on the registry,
872
00:39:53,977 --> 00:39:58,231
then I will make sure she does
five years for the VOP.
873
00:39:58,356 --> 00:40:00,400
It's not my favorite ending...
874
00:40:00,525 --> 00:40:02,694
but it's better than nothing.
875
00:40:07,949 --> 00:40:10,285
The People and the defense
have reached an agreement?
876
00:40:10,410 --> 00:40:11,661
We have, Your Honor.
877
00:40:11,745 --> 00:40:13,121
If the defendant pleads guilty
878
00:40:13,246 --> 00:40:14,873
to all counts
of scheme to defraud,
879
00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:16,833
the People will drop
the sexual-abuse charges.
880
00:40:16,916 --> 00:40:19,377
Ms. Tanzillo, on all charges
881
00:40:19,461 --> 00:40:22,297
of scheme to defraud,
how do you plead?
882
00:40:22,422 --> 00:40:24,841
Guilty, Your Honor.
883
00:40:24,924 --> 00:40:28,386
The court thanks the People
and the defense for its time.
884
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:30,513
We are adjourned.
885
00:40:40,023 --> 00:40:43,110
For what it's worth,
Captain Benson,
886
00:40:43,193 --> 00:40:46,988
I think you're
an amazing police officer.
887
00:40:47,113 --> 00:40:48,990
Yeah, I am.
888
00:40:50,867 --> 00:40:52,369
I'll see you soon.
889
00:40:59,042 --> 00:41:01,545
Hey, congratulations
on, uh, not murdering her
890
00:41:01,628 --> 00:41:03,171
with your bare hands.
891
00:41:03,296 --> 00:41:05,632
I think that showed
real restraint.
892
00:41:05,757 --> 00:41:08,510
-She'll be back.
-Mm, we'll be waiting.
893
00:41:08,635 --> 00:41:11,012
Till then, let me buy you
a drink to cry in.
894
00:41:11,137 --> 00:41:12,389
Come on.
61207
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