Original subtitles

all

I

we have to see we have to know

is

having a key role on Hellraiser as both

a new world executive and editor Tony

randelle would step into the shoes of

clyve Barker and take over the Reigns of

the much anticipated sequel Hellbound in

the same way that they'd made the Nolla

Hellbound heart in a in a kind of

simultaneous uh period with Hellraiser I

think they were already talking about

what would become night breed uh and

which Clive wrote as the short novel

cabal and I think um they were intending

the Clive would go on to write and

direct what became night breed at that

point so so they needed other hands to

do Hellbound Clive Clive told me that

you know he had to deliver these books

and it was great because I mean that was

more publicity for Clive more publicity

for the film we had good script with

Pete um we asked Tony Randall to come on

board to to direct it CU we knew he

wanted to be a director Michael McDow

had been slated to to both write and

direct uh the sequel uh and then you

know sadly personal reasons meant that

he couldn't do the job um you know which

uh very sorry about that but um

obviously it was a was a blessing for

both Tony Randall whose first

directorial gig it was and for me whose

first uh screenwriting job it was I met

with Michael uh in my office in Cent

City and um we talked about it and he

was going he was going to to do the film

and then shortly

thereafter I believe his partner

contracted AIDS and he might have been

diagnosed with AIDS himself and he bowed

out and and that's when there was an

open director's slot and I said I think

I want to do this it was still obviously

Doug Bradley standing there as Pinhead

it still had all the aspects of it um

but we were sitting there beavering away

in the background me and

live um to make sure that it was still

the same world the same place the same

got involved heavily with uh the look of

hell and the whole look of the lament

configuration sort of traveling in Hell

a lot of those people on that set on the

first day of Hellraiser 2 had been on

Hellraiser 1 and had been used to

working with Clive so there was quite a

nervous bit attention on the set the

first the first afternoon the first

couple of days first week for the first

couple weeks I was really learning how

to direct and I was given great

assistance by Robin vion who came on to

shoot the second one and Andy Armstrong

who was my first ad I can only assume it

must have been pretty difficult for uh

Tony stepping into Clive shoes and and I

think anybody who comes to the Helm of a

sequel of a very successful and popular

first movie it it must be difficult and

it was his first movie too I'm pretty

certain I'm right in saying

as a director incredibly efficient

incredibly absorbed completely obsessed

with uh all the technical aspects and

really a man in his world I I remember

him being quite um quiet and diffident

and kind of totally focused on

delivering this picture he was extremely

nervous and if you walk onto a set um if

you know the hierarchy obviously the

director is the top person on the set so

to speak but you have in films you have

a first assistant and a second assistant

director sometimes a third assistant

director and the first assistant

director's job is to be the bastard that

the F that the director can't be we

basically followed the same formula and

had the same team um supporting him but

he was very much more experienced than

Clive was because he'd been an exact I

remember for some reason we were

shooting

we started shooting after

lunch and uh at 2:00 it they might

correct me in a minute but I do remember

that he wasn't on set and and after

about 15 minutes I I got off and W I

walked away quiet I didn't say it I was

going the ad I was going up cuz that was

his job to try and find out where he was

and I went down to his office and he was

sitting in there and he couldn't get up

the chair he was so

nervous and I said you know we're all

here to help you know come on come and

do it and he came on set and within two

or 3 days he kind of got into his strike

because he'd rehearsed with the actors

so they weren't strange to him but to

actually come on a set with like 10 or

11 electricians and you know 40 50

people on that set however many there

were it's quite daunting if you've never

done it before cuz you know if you've

never done it you know that everyone's

watching you to to to to make a mistake

but I said we're not that we're there to

help you do this you know you know

cutting so let's get on with it and he

did having left the dog company in 1980

Peter Atkins still remained close

friends with Barker and he himself would

soon become an integral part of the

Hellraiser Legacy Pete Atkins who was

who was another friend back from dog

Company days uh part of part of the the

scous mafia uh on Hellraiser um was

writing the

screenplay to Clive's storyline

involvement with the with the hell Roser

series began

because they needed a sequel and well I

I should rewind I'd turned 30 and at

that point I realized I wasn't going to

be a pop star cuz you know if you're

already a pop star when you're 30 you

can stay one but very few people become

one uh and so I had started writing i'

written a few short stories I think sold

one or i' certainly started sending them

out but maybe got rejected I can't

remember anyway Clive had read them um

and was very kind about them he did it

in conjunction with Clive over his

shoulder and did a great job I you know

he took it he expanded it made it

bigger um took it into the Leviathan and

all sorts of places and

um the imagery in it is I think

wonderful I think Clive was smart enough

to to tell me to lie he said of Chris

asked you have you written

screenplays say that you

have uh but the the thing is I've told

that story before and I always make it

sound like and we fooled Chris that I

knew how to write a screenplay but the

truth is of course you know right any

idiot can learn how to lay out a

screenplay you know the the secret of

screenwriting is not learning where to

indent the dialogue and the character

names it it's learning to write in

pictures to to know that your ultimate

audience is going to see and hear your

work not read it so any [ __ ] can learn

how to lay it out on the page what I did

know at the time was I was extremely

lucky uh in in a socioeconomic sense

because the pound was extremely weak

against the dollar and that might sound

irrelevant but I I I believe what it

meant was that new

world again the financing company could

burn through pounds the the pound was

essentially worthless so rather than

them having to police me like if it was

going to cost them a lot of dollars when

Chris called and said I found the guy I

want to write the script I think New

World thought well [ __ ] it's not going

to cost us that much what the hell we

can always replace him if it [ __ ] um so

I was very lucky I didn't realize that

but I I genuinely think that was that

was part of uh part of the deal at the

time taking on the role of screenwriter

for Hellbound Peter Atkins would also be

faced with the challenge of not only

continuing the story created by Barker

but also topping it well I think it is

true that uh you know while I hope

Hellbound really plays as a direct and

honest sequel to Hellraiser clearly

there are tonal shifts and uh shifts of

scope as much as anything else whereas

Hellraiser was a family drama Hellbound

is a big Opera and it's it's it's shown

in the sets in the music in the emotion

it's just everything is expanded and big

it was it was an operatic horror film I

love Pete script from the gecko I mean

it it it takes uh it it takes hell Razer

and it and it and it ramps it up

basically um uh and it it it follows

Hellraiser very closely I mean the

action starts literally

almost minutes after the first one has

finished it's a bit about obsessive love

but it's also about obsession with the

occult and and learning is there more is

there more that's kind of the the theme

of the film is there is there a world

Beyond this I need to know I I first met

Pete um at my hotel it was a called the

Meridian on Picadilly circus and because

I I'd come over to to develop the script

and Pete was expecting to meet a guy in

a suit and tie cuz I was an executive or

now former executive in new world and I

was expecting to meet some craze

tattooed punked out

maniac and um when we first met we kind

of looked at each other and said you

look pretty nor look pretty normal Tony

and I have been very close friends now

for whatever it is since then like 30

years um but at the time I thought New

World executive some [ __ ] in a suit what

the hell and I you know I was expecting

the worst cuz I I I didn't know what

Executives meant but I I was certainly

expecting some power broker in a

three-piece suit some smart ass most of

the time I'm in shorts or sweats and and

sweatshirts I'm really casual and and we

just got immediately clicked and Pete's

been one of my best friends for years in

fact my son's middle name is Peter named

after Pete so um we're very close and we

worked

on uh

the script for the next I think two or

three weeks um Tony brought a lot of

ideas um not just visual you know he's

uh he's a guy with a good narrative

sense um and a good thematic sense so we

we had a great time like jamming

verbally in the room and then we were in

different hotels and you we' we'd talk

and I'd go away and write stuff up and

we talk some more and eventually the

what was

essentially the movie that was shot

really gelled in the third and fourth

drafts after already giving Hellraiser a

harsh critical review on his BBC

television show film 87 popular British

critic Barry Norman would take on a c by

too many with his scathing reviews of

the horror genre According to some

admiring sources has gly broken the

rules of the genre and or produced a

genuine original I read these comments

with total beus because as far as I'm

concerned Hellraiser is a nasty little

film that I watched with a deep and if

not original then certainly genuine

loathing now I'd remembered all the

slurs for five six seven 8 10 years

where he had just absolutely hated

horror films and just every time they

came up on film 80 81 82 83 whatever

here just trash them all and I went H

all right I said you can do it you can

come down I I'll set out for you so you

can bring your crew down you can do your

filming whatever

but I'm going to deal with you you're

going to have to your photo taken with

Pinhead and cl

Barker and he said oh I I I I don't I Su

yes that's the deal you want to come a

film we're going to do it I always used

to watch him and I thought he was quite

a constructive not destructive critic

and I think that's what all critics

should be if they if they don't like

something ex be constructive about it

don't destroy it because there's good in

everything um obviously hell r it's not

his it's not everyone's cup of tea so I

expected that um he didn't mention the

photography he didn't mention the acting

he just didn't like the film we were all

sitting behind the scenes with blood

guns just so desperate to try and get

something on his trousers or something

just to get him back but we didn't I

came out of my dressing room in full

makeup and

costume and startled Barry Norman who

was making his way down the corridor

with a raincoat over his arm and he was

very startled and looked very uneasy and

I said oh

hello uh and he said uh uh uh um hello

I'm I'm looking for and I said yeah over

there down

there and off he went someone said Barry

Norman's come on here I said let me get

let me get at him let me get at

him but uh we didn't we were too busy

and of course he he these celebrities

they I'm Barry Norman I'm here you I'm

the film I I'm television go away when

he arrived Clive and

Chris uh put him in the locked

room and gave him the grilling over the

review that he gave Hellraiser and said

Clive particularly I think his feeling

was his thing was why are you doing this

why are you

attacking although American funded a

British movie why and Barry Norman

apparently

admitted that it was because he didn't

like horror movies it had nothing to do

with Hellraiser and of course that gave

Clive plenty of ammunition to come back

and say but it's not your job you know

to to judge a comedy on the basis of

whether you like comedies or not whether

you like War films or not or Western

it's irrelevant you know the Searchers

is a great western it's a great film um

there have been a lot of very bad

westerns there have been a lot of great

horror movies there have been a lot of

truly appalling horror movies treat them

on their own merits and he kind of

rather bashfully said yes you're quite

right I was wrong and I I don't think we

had a bad review from him

thereafter he Ked on side in the end

fast becoming a pop culture icon

alongside Freddy Krueger Jason VES

Michael Myers and Leatherface fans were

Keen to see and know more about the lead

cabit now affectionately called pin head

within his script Peter Atkins would not

only give the character more screen time

but explain his past as Captain Elliot

Spencer the original thought in

Hellraiser was that Julia was the star

and she would be the returning villain

and when the film was previewed and

subsequently released the audience

really grasped or grabbed on to Pinhead

as a character so it Pinhead is was an

audience choice it gave me a a a uh

somewhere to place pin head more

specifically um though I still very much

had it in my head that okay we may be

showing you who he was and when Pinhead

was born I certainly didn't feel that

that uh that Pinhead had any memory of

that not until the point of which Kirsty

presented him with the with the uh with

the photograph I can't remember

at which stage and in which draft the um

the revelation of the cites former

Humanity came directly into the script

but I know that

um I had proceeded under the assumption

I I put it in the script a little bit

though I developed it much more in Hell

Rosa 3

um Pinhead had been human Pinhead had

this backstory Pinhead was a member of

the Lost gener generation a first world

war officer who after the war had

pursued forbidden Pleasures so so again

you know reaching back into the dimness

of my memory and and the dimness of the

years I guess there was a sort of

analogy with Frank in the sense that um

the pleasure seekers the pain Seekers

the people who seek out the box um some

of them become cenobites I I guess it

was as Loosely formed in my head as that

Pete and I are we're you know we're

getting older so our memories are fading

but we always debate who came up with

the fact that Pinhead was an English

officer in India I I always say I came

up with that he says he came up with it

it doesn't matter in Hellbound we did

start to explore the

backstory of uh of pen head uming with

professional skill and coolness into her

exposed brain is Dr

Malahide he is in his late 40s and looks

like all the great doctors look rational

civilized competent and powerful there

is an intensity in his eyes and the

lines of his face though that suggests

something more than normal in my first

draft I I'd called him Malahide um

and even before I met Tony uh when he

arrived we both arrived back in London

on the same day um and he called me up

from his hotel and was very

complimentary about the script very nice

and said how much he liked the character

of the doctor

and said yeah this this Dr Malahide

Great Character I want to call him

chinard and I thought arrogant californ

and K what do you mean you want to

change the name what I thought it was a

little bit too much on the

nose um I've always been fascinated by

doctors and their and their sort of

Godlike attitude and I thought well this

guy really needs to be a um kind of a

pretentious uh bit of a a jerk

to to be uh doing all these experiments

and obsessions and so I U and cold so

there was always I was always impressed

by um Dr Christian Bernard the the he is

the doctor that did the first heart

transplant because he was like a star

doctor so chanard is a shorten version

of Chris Christian Bernard Tony wanted

to call him anad chinard um which I

thought was a rather clumsy neologism I

wanted to call him Malahide because it

meant bad skin in uh Latin Greek I don't

know um in other words I stole it from

Dollarhide in uh red dragon um which I

guess means sad skin dollarus dollarus

Dollarhide sad skin so I wanted bad skin

Malahide also there's an acting called

Patrick Malahide where I Nick the name

from you might say Christian Barn

Bernard but but anyway that's how the

name came about so he that's jard

Christian Bernard but I thought Malahide

was a better name than chinard and it's

only with the passage of time that I'm

comfortable with calling that guy

chinard a man of science who was so

obsessed with the occult that he lost

his Humanity he's a psychiatrist SLS

surgeon you know my knowledge of the

medical profession was

fairly ignorant as you can tell but

obviously he's interested in the working

of the brain and likes to work on it um

you know his opening speeches about the

Mind as a labyrinth ladies and gentlemen

and of course much later in the movie he

will be in the in the concretized

Labyrinth of hell it's really scary you

know because in life we don't

know where we're going to end up

and if you do find yourself in

need of

help H you you put a lot of trust

in the medical profession don't we all

of us go under the scal mostly at some

point and you got to have a lot of trust

in those doctors and I think that's why

he is so Sinister and why he affects us

all I hope like all interesting floyed

characters

um you can have a certain sympathy with

with the root desire the desire to know

you can have a certain sympathy with his

fascination with Julia um but you know

letting a mental patient slash himself

to death for the furthering of your

desire to know put you firmly in the

[ __ ] category so we don't like

chinard in the end he's been reading all

sorts of books and he's and he's and

he's become curious about some very

strange things and it's it's rather odd

that idea of him getting that mattress

and

reactivating Julia through the mattress

that's a very odd image it's a very very

nightmarish image that is isn't it and

and the fact that he

wants those things to occur I

mean in my own life if I'm flicking

through the television channels at night

and one of those things comes on famous

ghosts or something I go straight past

it cuzz I I don't I don't actually want

to go there but he obviously does you

know he's got to gives him some sort of

thrill but he I suppose he's a bit sort

of isolated and strange shanard isn't he

I mean what who does he have a

relationship with

Julia not a very good relationship is

it Pete and I are both kind of obsessive

people and

chenard as scar as this sound has a lot

of both of us in them and I think that's

how how you know characters are

developed that they're they're people

that you know

um I I can be pretty obsessive Pete is

we just we developed a character around

our own personalities like Jacqueline

Hyde in the the shinard character is two

different people I mean this this

creature emerges like all great movie

villains it's difficult to dislike him

most of the time however much we may

disapprove of him um but you know that's

his thing he gets what he wants he gets

what he wants he I mean I guess unlike

um well clearly you know Pinhead is the

Lord of hell and and Embraces his role

eventually but in um in the scenes of

the creation of Pinhead we see that it's

quite painful and um but ch

Embraces it fairly willingly and fairly

quickly um he's ready to rock with

Leviathan he's he's happy to be the

puppet after all not the Puppet Master

to get to do Hellraiser was um it's

certainly an unusual film there's

nothing else like it Ken was just great

I mean I never sure whether he hated it

or loved it but um he he was great

performance you it and I think he could

act he could act his socks off and

overact his socks off and I think he

enjoyed it I know

that there was a group of three of us

were up for shanard one of the other

ones was an actor called Francis

Matthews who was a bit like Gerald

Harper who's one of those rather sort of

elegant men who played sort of

uh Gerald Harper played a thing on

television where he they play Urbane

sort of sophisticated men who got

involved in crime and whatever and

Francis Matthews was one of those and uh

but anyway the part came to me Ken is

big he's loud and big he's fabulous um

when we found out it was Ken cranum I

don't think there was anybody else

involved in the part is lovely cuz i'

seen him in shine on Harvey Moon that he

was in that was of that generation so to

speak and he's a brilliant actor with a

brilliant voice at the time I'd been

offered

King John at statford on a by

Shakespeare and um it took me quite a

long time to read the play I didn't know

the play

and and I had to choose between

that and H rer too at the time I used to

see quite a bit of Gary

Al and I could tell that he was rather

envious of me

being offered Hellraiser too um it's

obviously something he wanted to do was

a horror film and I'm sure that the end

product of that was him playing Dracula

in that fil the American Film he did it

was something he he had a yearning to do

and there was a pair of antique

curtains and this antique Curtain Shop

would let you take one curtain home it

occurred to me if I did Hellraiser 2 I

could get these

curtains whereas if I'd gone to

Stratford and laen there was just not

enough money involved very very focused

actor big track record came to us with a

a workload as big as your arm you know

and he's still working hard now very

professional man and great always good

morning I mean he became one of the boys

you know and like to joke but when he

when when that camera started to roll

and rehearsals he was absolutely 100%

there great guy to work with I've known

Kent for years so I mean you know we

were good friends and we just we just

had a b we just had great fun we didn't

go into any deep psychological depth you

know our characters um but uh but no we

had a huge we had to laugh we had

a we had just had a huge amount of fun

really I think that janard is is is is a

very central figure to Hellraiser 2

isn't he I mean his his whole Arc is

contained in that film from his creation

to his death I mean I think he occupies

actually the center of that film if

anyone does I thought the scenes with

him and Clay Higgins were pretty sexy

actually and even though she uses him

for her

own

reasons he is the one bit you remember

from that film Tiffany is a girl in her

early teens but looks younger than her

years due to her boyish figure and her

slight overd delicate features for me it

was it was important to have this um a

character who had this ability to solve

puzzles because it would it we needed

somebody to open up the gates of hell

she was paralyzed with her voice box her

she didn't want to communicate I

think um and that was before she got to

the institution so as far as character

development you got to ask why hey why

did a mother take her daughter to the

institution ask a doctor to help her why

had this child stopped speaking maybe

she'd seen something even

before these puzzles are consuming her

life you know she was she was already

working on something Tiffany was um a

firsttime actress and but she had this

beautiful sort of lovely quality about

her um some an other worldliness then

you know her mother let her do it and

um it all worked out Terri well she was

very good in it he has a use for her he

thinks oh right a young kid good at

opening boxes puzzles she can help me

with my secret hobby I would just regard

her as a rather dreamy beautiful element

Tiffany

represents our dreams uh the when you

first have a dream or you you have a

goal it's it's it's beautiful it's

um um motivating and Tiffany's there in

hell and you think oh no you know it she

she represents pess the reason she was M

again i' I'd like to pretend that I

thought this consciously but I don't

believe I did she was in essence a

mouthpiece for chinard I mean more

specifically a handpiece

um so being a mouthpiece for another

character but being dumb having no voice

of Her

Own just seemed out I mean obviously

there are narrative reasons that the

whole backstory of the trauma of uh

seeing a mother killed um but you know

there's there's that kind of

metaphorical reason too that she has no

voice of her own she's manipulated there

was a girl in uh high school that I knew

she used to sit behind me was this and I

thought that's the kind of person I need

to find to play this part just it was

just in my mind in fact if you looked at

this girl's picture in my yearbook you'd

say that was zagin I could tell Tony

Randall

really wanted Tiffany to be a certain

way he already had in his mind what he

wanted Tiffany to be and her effect in

the in the story so she was just natural

she was just natural for the part there

was nobody else who could have played it

after surviving the events of the first

film the character of Kirsty cotton

returns to the sequel in search of her

father Larry in hell again Kirsty would

be played by American Born Ashley

Lawrence by the time we did Herb bound

she was well on target she knew exactly

what her character was she knew exactly

where her character had to go my big

disappointment with the her films is we

never continued recursed his story I

spent most time with

Ashley

and I remember there was a time she's a

little bit upset because they're putting

pressure on her to go full nude on the

shower

scene and she wasn't happy I don't know

for what reason whe who changed their

mind maybe the script had changed Maybe

Ashley had changed her mind but I

respected her very much when she put her

foot down so I'm not going to do it she

has a very dark sense of humor um she's

quite an exceptional person as she's

very professional of course she did the

first one when she was really young I

don't know if you've ever seen the art

she does she's a really talented painter

and she said that you know in down times

in in Hellraiser she and Clive would

just s be painting on the walls and

stuff I always think Ashley had a bit of

puppy fat in the first one she kind of

smoothed into this kind of beautiful

woman and she's continued to do that

over the decades I think um I

think kirsty's balls that she grew in

the first film really filled with Seaman

in the

[Laughter]

second there were several days when me

and Ashley were not doing much but just

ready to go on should they need us and

um I just remember my dressing room was

above the main entrance

and um we given breakfast and I think it

was Ashley's idea not my we're throwing

bits of our breakfast onto people's

heads as they went through the main

entrance and that was not appreciated

actually by most think Robin love Danny

love there was one of

two off yeah and it wasn't appreciated

by everybody but we thought it was very

fun we shot a kissing scene and Tony I

can remember him uh you know okay I

think in this scene you guys just go

into a big

clinch

and Ash was like what we're just G to

you know say yeah we just going to kiss

you know I think I've been an actor for

what 10 years probably so you know it's

like we got to do a kiss so let's just

do a kiss and uh we did it I don't think

it worked I mean we both you know came

from opposite end the room like couple

of trains

meaning and uh and it was and we tried

it had Tony been a slightly more

experienced director he maybe could have

been able to you know been a bit more uh

atmospheric and skillful the room has

several attentive listeners and

observers but the one nearest to

Malahide is his personal student

assistant Kyle McCrae young

conventionally good-looking with an open

friendly face I was told nothing about

him so Kyle I just went along and did it

and Tony stood up said I love the way

you said that

I said what and I just remember him

getting hung up on the way I said one

word or something and I thought don't

know what he's talking about but so you

know I met him once and that was it a

young man who wants to do the best he

can but sort of fails miserably because

he doesn't recognize that Julia is the

queen of hell my agent said go up for

this film and I said what is it and I

said what sequel to Hell ra I said what

Hellraiser and I I don't think I I guess

I was aware of it I think maybe in

America they were going more SciFi cuz

the Alien movies were huge weren't they

and I think he'd made one and he came

over that must have been something to do

with Tony having the influence we got on

rather well in acting terms and with

each other me and him we did quite a bit

of the film wandering about with sort of

uh white coats on and things in the

hospital I guess I I went through the

script and I didn't know the first film

and it quite the casting happened quite

quickly so I was straight into it I was

very busy at the time I was doing a lot

of different theater and actually I

think I was in the West End performing a

show and so uh filming in the day

straight out straight in the car doing

shows eight times a week uh in the

evening and

mates so I didn't have much time to do a

lot of thinking or a lot of of the

background reading I just thought right

horror movie let's do it after creating

one of Hell Ra's most intriguing

characters as Julia cotton CLA Higgins

would return to the franchise as the

newly resurrected queen of hell when

when they brought me on board they I

remember one of them I think Clive maybe

Chris saying we want Julie to be our

female Freddy Krueger they really saw

Julia as the through line monster that

would dve Drive the series know like

every job it depends on the script um

the people involved um and all the rest

of it I you use any other consideration

I I think she made a a very strong

villain in the second picture she was

obviously pretty horrific in the first

one but in the second one

she's she's right there she's there

she's arrived I just sort of thought oh

here we go you know that's C and I

mean I find it quite hard to talk about

it in a real real istic way say because

it's it's fantasy and so you know I mean

I just thought oh gosh look at this and

um that that's life for you you know

wild imagination one of the things that

she and chinard have in common perhaps

it's the secret of their mutual

attraction is that they are they have no

Illusions about themselves actually they

are quite comfortable with what they

have embraced and what they have become

Julia is sort of flexing her wing in and

has become a more Fantastical character

hasn't she what I wanted to do with her

in uh the

sequel uh and you know wanted to do and

like like many a firsttime writer I made

it very clear by putting some

heavy-handed lines in people's mouths is

you know she's no longer just the

Slightly bizarre housewife lover of the

first movie she is the evil queen she

does see Kirsty as Snow White it is a

Fractured Fairy Tale um and she's

embracing her role I just thought we

know we had great fun and a friend of

mine Ken cranon was going to be in it

and we rang each other up and said let's

do it you know don't have few more locks

she has one of my favorite lines in the

movie no one told you they've changed

the game I'm no longer the wicked

step mother I'm now the evil queen or

whatever it is but you know my favorite

line go on Snow White give it your best

shot I I just think she's wonderful I I

believe she might have made it clear

that she didn't really have an interest

in being the female Freddy Krueger you

know as her subsequent success with the

RSC through Ro Shakespeare company

proves I think that her Ambitions lay in

another Direction and she certainly

realized them despite a limited screen

time in Hellraiser the cenobites would

strike a cord with the imagination of

the filmgoing public and their

characters and screen time would be

slightly extended in randell's Sequel

after the departure of Grace Kirby

Canadian MIM artist Barbie wild would

take on the role of the female cabit

whilst not only successfully filling the

shoes of Kirby but creating her own

version of the iconic cabit I I think

Grace found it physically very painful

um because that costume was very

restricted and she had back from s my I

understand I've never spoken to her I've

literally never spoken to her since the

line I heard was she swore she'd never

set foot south of Hadrian's Wall um she

lives up in Scotland I think I got the

audition because I knew what a cabit was

and I said oh it's a member of a

religious order and he went oh no no I

think it's a word Clive made up I said

no Tony it's actually I looked it up in

the the dictionary never contradict your

director and it's it's a member of an

order um uh mostly a religious order and

he said no it's not and then his

assistant ran to get a dictionary and

said uh Barbie's right and so I got the

job probably out of

Revenge she contradicted me I'll give

her the job so she can s her under the

makeup what's not to like about Barbie W

she's just a little bundle of joy she

can talk for England which is amazing

she's from Canada I believe but uh no

she's she's great fun um really easy to

get along with this woman came in with

this American accent and we thinking you

know this isn't Grace this isn't sort of

like a formal cenite type person and she

was a laugh and she got on with it and

did the job she kind of became part of

the cabit team straight away um uh

stepping into into Grace's shoes

um uh and uh the four of us just got on

really well she and and Nick and Simon

and I

sitting around for hours waiting to be

called to set arriving at 4:00 in the

morning and getting on set at 4:00 in

the afternoon day after day after day

yeah uh was all good Mark kulier came in

and took over doing um the female cerit

and resculpted it to fit Barbie because

Barbie's got a slightly shorter neck

than I think Grace Kirby had so it just

changed very slightly the only

difficulty with Barbie go she's just

never stops you know she's tap dancing

you know she stick her makeup on and

you've got all these edges and our

Terror as presented makeup artists as

you stick a stick a makeup on it it

looks fantastic when it walks out the

make when the ACT walks out the makeup

room and then you just watch it fall

apart during the day as they bite into a

bacon sandwich and scratching something

you know they only have to scratch the

cheek and tear the piece and you've got

to redo the makeup you know it's funny

when you're sitting in the makeup uh

room and having all this Gore put on you

and the special KY Jelly which is the

Ooze the nice and shiny ooze you're not

really thinking about oh my God this is

I'm being covered in blood it's just

makeup bobbie's got very you know round

features and full cheeks and so you

couldn't really create that skeletal

quality that uh Grace Kirby had on the

first first one it was obviously quite

different than Graces in the first one I

didn't have the creepy bits of hair and

my facial configuration was quite

different than hers so they they also

did different throat jewelry for me and

and uh I thought hers was much more

interesting but um she pouted but um so

it was just that process of doing all

the makeup tests and then getting on set

in the fourth a man in his early 20s

restrained in a straight jacket he

shuffled around on the cell floor his

eyes twitching and flitting from one

part of his body to

another coming into do hero is a 2 was a

real treat because uh a nobody knew if

it was going to be one uh well fairly

soon after there was one and uh it was

like popping for an interview and uh and

uh that marvelous thing about now o we

want you to be in this we've got three

parts for you what yeah three one of the

main characters Mr Browning you're

playing Frank in flashback and then some

bit about a writing I'm in hell or

something on a wall it was great to meet

Oliver again because we we spent so much

great time with him as skinned Frank and

to get ol Ollie back was really that was

that was a lovely touch really nice

there's there's nice things happen in

films and that's one of them I did have

slightly C blanch on this um Mr Browning

thing because it was really quite a

tricky number it was sort of having to

develop into maneria and sustain it

between takes getting back into you know

picking up where you left off with all

that

Looney Frank's white shirt is cut off at

the left shoulder his arm is bare and

from the elbow down to the wrist joined

to another forearm the flesh is

completely fused like that of Siamese

twins as Frank moves into the room the

owner of the other arm is revealed it is

his brother Larry cursed his father

Larry like his brother is dressed in a

white shirt cut off at one shoulder and

jeans and like his brother has his skin

back his face is frozen into a permanent

expression of Terror and he seems

incapable of any independent move

movement simply being pulled Along by

Frank one of the big questions about uh

helland for people who knew about the

development of the movie is the absence

of Larry cotton uh played by Andrew

Robinson uh brilliantly in the first mie

I was approached about the sequel um you

know when they were going to shoot it

you know I I was you know they made the

offer we heard relatively late in the

process um I think you know a couple of

weeks before shooting uh at most um that

in fact Andrew was not going to be in

the picture so we had to I had to uh

rewrite quite urgently but the thing is

um without any disrespect to Andy who

was great in the first movie I was

actually relieved because it was one of

the

few uh disagreements that I'd had one of

the few fights I'd had with Chris and

Clive way back in in the early stages of

developing the story and a fight i' lost

because my assumption always was what

did Larry do to end up in hell like I I

I don't think there was any point in him

being there what are we saying here if

we're setting up this

careful um Tableau of uh punishment for

the wrong wishes or you know the bad

deed if we're setting up a moral

Universe however skewed and bizarre and

sedom masochistic what the [ __ ] did Lar

do to go to hell for when he read the

script he like any actor would do he

said I I just don't have much to to do

here and didn't want to do it and I

respected that I understood that so we

wrote him out and I'm not I wasn't

surprised and I completely respect his

decision not to do the film read the

script and and I was really disappointed

with the script uh and and thought well

that's it you know don't need to do this

so the fact that I I had to

shoehorn this Larry's in hell and cursed

he's actually trying to rescue her dad

was actually that was difficult for me

and I didn't like it so to be honest

once and again not talking about Andy

but the character once the character of

Larry was not in hell not in the movie I

was delighted it was actually a very

quick fix because it made much more

narrative sense to me that this was

always an evil scheme of evil uncle

Frank all along you know of course

Larry's not in Hell Frank's in hell cuz

he's a [ __ ] bastard of course he's in

Hell poor Larry developing the team at

image animation by introducing some new

faces the company would not only expand

its effects work on the film but it's

workshop and team on Hell Riser 2 Bob

was working in the states so I I I

chiefed hell Riser too um Bob I thinks

credited as a supervisor he popped back

a few times just to sort look over stuff

Jeff and his guys were just were just

devoted and great and right in tune with

the story I didn't need I didn't need to

do anything they just did it we went

everywhere and looked you know we we had

a a very much a policy of we were

looking all the time for new people we

really wanted this place to be um Lively

and young and full of people who really

were working I was always willing to

have a go you know these guys that

usually had a budget of about 4 and 1/2

p

and um I would get in there and risk it

and uh

so people knew that about me I suppose

and Bob picked up uh and he originally

got me in to talk about this TV series

and then I went to see him in Pinewood

basically I'm sitting in his office and

there's this studio full of you know

sort of monsters and kind of decomposing

bodies and things and I said oh but Bob

this is you know forget your kids series

this is what I want to do the first time

I encountered image was Jeff poris and

Roy pfoot and they picked me up from the

train station in this little car and on

the back seat of the car was I'll never

forget it was butterball's head was just

sitting there along with some various

pieces of aliens from the Alien movies

was just in the back of this teeny

little blue car it was it was they was

very

childish and uh quite

immature um and but it it was they were

great fun but so I was kind of like

mother figure too cuz I was probably

about 10 years older than them and um or

even 15 actually I started there when

was 25 and they were like 16 17 18 they

were quite young just's a lot of mucking

about going on um as well as you know

very serious work cuz you know we get

there whatever time in the morning it

wasn't 9 to 5 you know people would stay

until 11: or you'd have people just

pretty much staying there for seven days

a week sleeping get up carry on work

sleeping this is really Jeff's movie

this is really Jeff's movie and really

my involvement was just with Clive

running around in the background so I

think you know hands off to Jeff he

really pulled the team together he took

the Reign to be number one in the number

one position of it and he really ran

with it um and he did a great job blood

pors from the multitude of wounds

running over his body and down onto the

mattress suddenly without any

preliminaries two painfully thin flayed

mucus covered arms shoot out of the

mattress one on either side of the still

busy Browning they wrap themselves

tightly across his chest and Crush in

tightly to the mattress as a head

similarly wasted oozes out of the

mattress to the side of Browning's head

absolutely it fell into place it was

just one of those you you go for it it's

just one one character plays off the

other in so far he's who he is and I'm

who I am and so it kind of happens

really because of the the the manness of

it all obviously a very disturbed bloke

indeed can't wait to get his quy craes

off him and uh Ken's got a

one-dimensional plan here let's get him

on that mattress get him to spill a bit

of blood and wall up and uh I have yeah

set the ball a flame for what happens

next um so yes he was just uh but

actually was quite tender wasn't he it

was quite sweet

yeah as I recall being led to that door

like a gibbering rack and he's don't

worry about it old chap just come and

come and sit down here everything will

be

fine oh by the way here's a here's a

little Raz I want you to have this a

minute so yeah but you Ken's

brilliant he knows what he's doing he

was wearing a complete chest piece that

went all over his chest right over his

shoulder over just over his shoulder

blades of sort of um boils and bits and

pieces and some bits and pieces on his

face

and so we blunted a razor really really

took it to town and rounded it and

blunted it and said look just be careful

and it had a little blood tube in so he

could go like that and blood would

squirt out he was so verocious in his

his acting that he ended up um uh

marking his body all over underneath the

the prothetic makeup the uh discussion

is by m Mr Browning night the nutcase

padded

cell kind of spoke for itself it was

just explained that really getting you

out of that cell and onto that mattress

uh the spilling of the blood repeat of

what happened in the first film uh when

the blood is spiled reborn after the

mattress comes but on this occasion the

reborn Junior

yeah it's an extremely gory scene Tony

said he wanted me to score it

sympathetically as I recall I may have

this wrong and I turned to Tony I said

no Tony no we can't we can't you know

yeah we feel that this is kind of weird

and all that and sad we feel sad for the

guy but I can't you know this is gross I

need to I need to would enhance this

moment with some twisted something or

other there I don't think we can write

emotion because his the scene is over

the top we're over his shoulder and he

is slashing himself with his Stanley

KN and because you couldn't see what he

was doing that really affected me I um

I think I put the Clapper board on and

then stood there watching him do all

this

slashing and then my head became very

heavy and I felt ill and uh I nodded to

the focus P of Danny and I had to leave

the set before I fainted they intercut

the closeup of my forearm with all these

bugs or I think that was that was all to

do with uh in the mind of the man this

bloke thinks he's got these all over his

arm hence oh a razor now I can really

yeah that was a thinking about it it no

it was horrible that sequence and as I

said they purposely overshot it they per

it just went on and on and on these

these skinn rabbits writhing around

covered in bits and blood and things it

was one a very long sequence that when

Julia is

reborn out of the mattress and her arms

fly up blood shoots out there's a shot

of Ken cranum getting blood across his

face well I was sitting right underneath

the lens with a squirt gun and I went

and hit him the first time first take

perfect I love that in fact I like

shooting Ken but that's another story

out come the hands I and clamp remember

clamped over my mouth

uh and well it is what it is it just

happened so that happened

like I didn't know what was going to

well I knew what was going to happen but

didn't know when so that was all nice

surprise all sort of oh gosh yeah

instant um instant uh occurrence it's

quite horrifying to shoot to be there on

the set because it's believable you know

and you know it's not like today you put

them in front of a green screen

and they've got to wh to nothing here's

they're acting against each other and

they're reacting to what what each of

them is seeing very nice thing happened

to me the day after filming up Pinewood

doing Mr Browning on that mattress all

day long long long long day for

everybody it was it was tough I got back

to my dressing room my dressing dressing

room and there on my dressing room table

table was a was a bottle of whiskey with

a little label it said sorry it's been

such a long hard day with love from the

production of this H is a it's my little

gift be good boy sweet it very much like

the role of Frank in Hellraiser the

effects crew required a thin actor to

play the role of skinless Julia instead

of CLA Higgins this role would go to the

beautiful South African actress Deborah

Joel I love sing Julia I think she is

the

perfect companion to skinless Frank with

all the technical problems that we had

and all the nightmare problems of

creating Frank Julia seemed to we

resolved that cuz we knew where to put

the seams we knew how to do it and she

is a piece of art I can vividly picture

the the drawing the drawing was just a

little sketch a lot of things just

happened on Bits of Paper um in those

days um um a sketch and once I'd drawn

it it was like and the I tell you the

influence although it might look like

it's not there at all in the slightest

was um uh Gyer giger's drawings of um

beautiful women like robots and stuff

like that so I was like okay I want to

do my uh skinned Woman as a I still want

the beauty I want I want you to find her

um strangely attractive Little John

sculpt in the face I I I believe that he

made the lips slightly Fuller just so

that they were a bit sexier and I think

the cheekbones were a bit higher um for

me I certainly um emphasized the cheeks

of her bottom she's for me

perfect brilliant really what a trooper

cuz it's that was that's a grueling

makeup isn't it do you remember Jim kery

he once did the Grinch and he had to get

um uh Marine um medical people help him

talk him through the trauma of doing um

trauma experts do getting him through

the process of putting the the Grinch

makeup on and and prosthetic makeup like

Julia's complete body makeup is it was

completely traumatic and Deborah was

just she was beautiful Charming we had

such a laugh such a tight little group

of people working on her and and it

ended up more or less just me Bev and

Debbie uh Deborah working together she

was amazing she

was so patient and so professional and

she just kept very still she just used

to go into a meditation she didn't move

she was fabulous couldn't have worked

with anyone dear she wouldn't like me

for this but um I'd I think booked her

as from a casting agent I wanted we

wanted someone really dead skinny so

that we could um make it look like there

there was nothing of her and she was a

little bit bigger in her um uh on her

when we met her than she was on her

Casting cards but

um yeah it it was fantastic I was

never so delighted as I was with that

makeup we both went through the same

nightmare hell on that day um Pleasant

nightmare hell of long long long days

filming and she was as sweetest pie and

and and said how we both give each other

a kiss and never seen her since there's

something about skinj I just really

enjoyed um working and seeing her come

so that when she was on set she she was

um for that brief time that she was n

naked I thought that's exactly what I

wanted to do I had some great help from

Beverly Pon Jones she was helped me a

lot on the second one cuz she was a very

expert makeup artist and the makeup that

we're doing on Julia she she used to do

a lot of help with me around the eyes

and stuff like that little John was uh

he was my backbone he was sculpting a

backbone he was mine he taught me he he

he guided me through it was lovely the

first kiss I had with the skinless

Julia she wasn't being played by CLA

Higgins she was played by very skinny

South African actress who was wearing a

sort of body outfit with and it looked

like those medical books before The

National Health people would have at

home a big medical

encyclopedia and in the middle of it

you'd have layer by layer you would look

into the human body and it actually

looked like that you could see all the

sort of tubes and bits and pieces and uh

he wanted us to kiss and Tony said I

want to see

tongues and on the day the South African

actress had flu and I thought I'm sorry

you're not going to see

T we made a bandage suit again we

thought we were going to for her to slip

on and the reason for making the

bandaged um prosthetic head piece was

for continuity really because it would

been very difficult for three days for

for to get those bandages in the right

place we thought it' be easier to make a

mask and then just slip it on and um so

that's what we did but in fact with

Julia with uh CLA we actually real used

real bandages for her and then it was

really difficult for me to match real

bandages with a a process

piece of sculp sculpure she had a dress

on as well I think and he lifted it and

then she had the bandages under the

dress and it was just all about keeping

it clean e even when Ken was ban it was

Ken that was bandaging her and you know

there was a way to do it so that it the

continuity matched the way I'd bandaged

her for the rest of the film and I

remember can you not you don't do it

like that you've got to do it like this

and here's like darling I've got [ __ ]

lines to learn I can't I can't [ __ ]

do you know

get I do sit there every time I say that

is my hand um so remember basically I

they were doing inserts and they just

wanted and I was up seeing the guys

um on the film um just dropping by to

say hello uh to the guys in image

animation they said do you mind coming

in and just doing this one shot when

chanard is apparently stroking up about

the backside of Junior it's actually my

hand in that one very brief

shot um so you get to see part of me out

of makeup and cpom little John up her

skirt oh no he he had the he had the

dress on and everything didn't they

hysterical I think he lik dressing in

lady's clothes in one we see the

chatterer in some hell's equivalent of a

beauty SEL he's being remade this

involves the scar tissue being man y

peel from the upper part of his face to

reveal beneath small vicious human eyes

I designed chatter 2 for the second

movie which was really because came

around because Nick couldn't see hear or

speak in the first movie and the fact

that in the second movie they were going

to be revealed to be uh to once all been

human I I thought that was that was

possibly a way to make it a little more

human and to give Nick eyes so that's

what we did chatarra tomb was basically

for that I have a memory in my mind of

seeing the rushes on it and basically

there were in fact for a long time I had

the two bits flaps of skin that they had

over so there were two

teardrop uh pieces of skin over my eyes

when I was wearing the chat whoo makeup

and then there were metal they were a

bit like back scratchers that pulled the

pieces apart um and that's where I

remember of the sequence we must have

filmed it uh as I'm pretty s certain I

saw rushes of it there's a scene that no

one's ever seen in in the Hellbound

which is uh which is a transformation

sequence from uh chat one to chat 2

which isn't there anymore probably

because

I [ __ ] it up basically it wasn't as

good as it should have been probably I

don't know um I think we shot it I I

can't honestly

remember uh but you'll notice in in uh

in the Hellbound he changes from

from the the original chatra into the

the slightly more human looking chatra

without any any real reason um and as I

say there was a sequence

I think we shot it what Cliff had done

was to produce a set of I think a small

set of pieces that went over the new

chatter mask and that you would see a

sequence where the eyelids were unfilled

and and peeled back so he could see um I

don't think it was ever shot I don't

think it was ever shot it took place in

a little cell

um I

think there was at one stage going to be

a character who was the box maker

I might be wrong

um and and all I can remember about it

is that I constructed some sort

of some sort

of helmet device which was made out of

all

the all the the foil bits of the Box all

the uh all the all the Box uh etchings

and it was It was kind of constructed

over that and it and it came down over

it over his head and it was smoking and

then something went and grabbed his

teeth and pulled them out and something

came in and grabbed hold of those sort

of those sort of ey slit things and

unraveled those to reveal his eyes

that's about all I can

remember it probably wasn't very

good probably wasn't as

good as it was in my head Bell not only

expands the mythology of Hellraiser but

opens the doors to Hell itself taking

the audience on a journey into the

Labyrinth unlike any other that there

had been before Leviathan is uh is the

great beast at the at the heart of hell

and um the Leviathan that we see in the

Finnish movie was very much a mutual

creation of me and Tony the the

geometric

perfect uh White doubled Diamond thing

that was in some ways a different

configuration of the Box uh that really

showed up in in the third draft um in

the first draft and in the story that

Clive and I had originally come up with

I'm ashamed to say Leviathan was

infinitely in fact it wasn't even called

Leviathan I think it was we referred to

him at

least when we were doing the story as

the great Beast with the assumption that

we would name said beasty later um but

it was a much more

conventional uh love crafty and

slimy huge tentacular monster in a pit

of ooze and Gore but you know and who

doesn't love that stuff I didn't want to

do a creature because I thought it was

too much of a of a physical

representation of an abstract thought I

wanted the hell and and Leviathan to be

more geometric

because that to me is is the way the

mind is Tony was really a science

fiction guy in terms of his own

enthusiasms um genre enthusiasms he was

really more a science fiction guy than a

horror guy

um which is one reason that

hell's um corridors are not just

um Isa like and weird they're also and

this is very conscious on Tony's part

they're also like the cwl machine from

Forbidden Planet um it it does have a

science fictional feel there um and

partly I think as a result of this

desire to have an ordered H but both he

and I seized on that idea quite early

but it's [ __ ] boring doing

it can you go move that bit of seil you

just had it out now put it back again no

take that one out spars are going mad

you know putting lights here putting

lights there but they kept up with it it

was almost like Factory workers we do

one bit in The Labyrinth and another bit

in The Labyrinth and another bit in The

Labyrinth and they're all supposed to be

in different areas but we didn't have um

uh the length of the labyrinth wasn't

that wasn't that long so that it was um

do one bit maybe a reline and then

another bit having had his flesh removed

and restructured his skin cheese wide

and turned blue the transformation of Dr

chanard into his new cenite form within

the creation Chambers was the first time

that view has witnessed the creation of

a cabit by the metaphysical hand of the

Lord of Hell Leviathan I created quite a

a rather aidite character for shanard he

was actually rather well spoken and sort

of um you know I I was obviously

attempting something and and and the

monster is something else the monster is

is is Mr Hyde the monster is this inner

being sort of come to power and so it is

it is r of course what I'm doing as the

monster it's not sort of subtle at all

when I saw it the whole idea of the kind

of the cheese grater over the face I

thought was was complete not a genius

how clever you know it's a difficult one

where and again that's the image that

sticks with you is is the wires and it's

it's that kind of pain which we all know

it's that razor cut it's that paper cut

um it's it's something that you can as

an audience you can feel how nasty

that's going to be and that's the genius

again I think of

Clive working with Pete Atkins I would

think that would have come up with those

those images and that sense we were um

we were sitting in the the workshop one

day I think having lunch or something

and uh we knew they were filming on the

sand stage and um quickly through the

door two or three people came in rushing

screaming the wires don't work the wires

don't work we need to do something with

them and we just went what and what we

used for um the wires that cut into

chinard face were two bones that had um

holes drilled in and then a series of

wire wrapped through which went to the

back of the head so that you could pull

them and keep them tight as they went

across the face well they they look

great in terms of long shots but in

closeup they didn't work at all so we we

had to get some dress making elastic and

spray it run it out big length through

the studio and then spray it with silver

paint as quickly as possible run up down

fan it and dry it and then take it back

onto set and it worked a simple thing

such as dress making elastic amazing

that sequence where that

tentacle borrows into chard's head had

to be filmed in Reverse what they did is

they put the thing on my head and then

they took it off and I had to act

backwards I had to act somebody that

that was happening to it it's it's it's

hard to even explain it but uh they they

didn't understand how well I'd done it

until they until they they reversed it

it actually worked it's a strange thing

because your imagination can be very

sort of uh alive in those situations you

can it's a bit like playing an

extraordinary game as a child only

you're grown up and doing these things

after already creating such visually

stunning Creations such as the original

cyes makeup artist Jeff bter would be

tasked with creating the look of the new

cabit Chan Ard so I had somebody lined

up to do chanard and they got Ken cranon

for the job and the person I'd had lined

up for it then said well yes but I'd

want a separate credit I'd want a credit

on the front reel or at least saying

Chan i' make up by so and so and said I

can't promise that and so he pulled out

of it and so I thought look it can't be

that bad I'll do it and I went to speak

to Chris and the people in the

production I said look don't worry the

only there's only one scene that

involves pined and chanard together and

it'll be a couple of days and I'll make

sure that we split it between two days

that are

separated so I thought okay I'll go for

it so he Incorporated a couple of uh

just little sort of elements to it um

like there's a a sort of a a Robocop

homage um Bullet Hole in the forehead um

CU that was out at the time I think

RoboCop um and we were all nuts for in

the workshop um and also there's like a

bit of Freddy burn on there as well so

um as he's sculpting it he kind of you

know showed it around to people in the

workshop and uh you know just to get

everyone's approval so I thought if I do

it with wires that means I've got to

stick these damn things on every day so

I wanted didn't want to do a multipiece

because I'd have the tracks for the

wires going in in in the same place each

day so I did it as a pullover mask with

a separate piece at the back that held

the thing on and just tightened it up so

I'd have some kind of pull so in case it

was loose um his mouth was down from

about there down to about there and the

rest was all stuck on the top of him I

designed him um did the wires did all

bits and pieces painted in painted in

blue we we there's a shot in the scene

where you see the the blood being sucked

out and blue being pumped in and all

these bits and pieces we designed the

whole sequence I have to say that uh the

woman who designed the

costumes was a sort of Arty person on

the sort of fringes of things that I

knew from

elsewhere and that the sort of basic

harness of the costume was was uh very

uncomfortable it wasn't a wasn't a

comfortable outfit to wear at all I mean

um and the days I was the monster I

would often sort of fought in by myself

with some cold

chardonay just to sort of take the curse

off this sort of rather crushing costume

cuz very often all you had to do is a

some of that he's

no lines to remember the Ken character

because it was a a different character

and he was uh completely different body

shaped to anyone who who'd been on

before um but the best bit was he really

didn't know what to expect and when I

turned up uh one morning with his

costume and I got it out of its a big

hanging thing and uh he said oh my god

Elvis the last week

and

he he loved it I can remember one day

when I was in my full Dr shanard outfit

and uh I couldn't find my way out of the

studio and I went out of a side door and

there was there was a car full of people

and a dog and they saw me and the dog

went it felt horrible they didn't used

to let me go to the the The Canteen at

lunchtime it just put people off their

food I used to have to sit in my room

and food would be delivered it was

always lukewarm by the time it got to me

we wanted to keep it relatively simple

and I did a little bit where I had one

ear took his ear Lo off the other one

went down into his ear things like that

little bits and pieces but we wanted to

keep it simple but relatively elegant

and in the same ethos as the rest of the

cites he was in the makeup chair for six

hours then God knows how long it took to

get in the costume at least an hour

because it was much more complicated

than mine and then after 3 hours wait

the second assistant came in and said

listen k i so sorry but we're not going

to get to you today and he went oh my

God oh my God please anything just use

me just just take a shot of me please I

said no sorry Ken we won't get to you I

said I'll wait and around for another

couple hours just use me in this makeup

you know they said no and he just looked

at me and I think that's when they took

that photograph of the two there's a

photograph of the two of us just looking

at the camera and his face his eyes look

so sad because it's a it's a long tiring

process and you just when you go through

that you just want to be used one of the

most iconic and talked about special

effects in Hellbound was that of the

Leviathan connected tentacle that

carries the newly created chanard cabit

through the labyrinths of hell I think

the makeup was very

extraordinary and um but the actual

organization

particularly of tubes coming out of your

head covered in herpes and that lot was

actually very

risky the question sexually questionable

appendage arising out of the top of his

head thing on his head it's it's like a

big sucker with one of those brain

implements going whizzing around isn't

it I I remember going on set when

chanard had the uh the dirty great big

penis stuck onto the top of his head and

and he's

going a penis this was again something

that was well underway by the time I got

there and it was kind of like ah there's

a giant penis attached to his head

um and on the top of the big asparagus

coming out of my

head with designs that were copied

directly from

herpes and and to give them a sort of

sore look they would have these economy

siiz tubes of KY Jelly splatter this

stuff all over you you continually sort

of hanging off you and my theory is that

you know when you're in a Roadside Cafe

and they give you a nastily fried egg

and it's got that terrible transparent

bit on the top and wriggles around that

that the really part of the horror

effect of the film is creating that F

that feeling in you as the

audience it was meant to look like a

penis what do you want it's me this is

meant to be sex isn't it this is meant

to be sort of like when I um I can't

remember the guy who sculpted it I can't

remember his name uh and I just said

let's make it look like a big

[ __ ] with a drill that comes out of the

hand grabs on somebody's head and hangs

him around but you know we did the veins

we did the PFF we did all the stuff

although I thought that was an

interesting idea I didn't quite get the

idea um I

understand why it was done but it did

feel a little bit strange at the time

that this enormous phallic symbol um

with no real denying that it is what it

is when Nick calls it the syphilitic

penis

um I suppose um I suppose if you think

of um the leviathon once it's been

stretched out like that is a kind of

vagina so you all going back to to kind

of sexual imagery and and it's all the

way through hon with the with the the

flower exploding with Bloods coming out

of the screen it's all sexual imagery um

it's clever old stuff isn't it once you

look at it it's no wonder people have

studied this stuff at University well

when you see uh it being sculpted and

there's a few in there it looks like

giant penis even on the model of Ken

cranum that's being held by it it looks

like a large [ __ ] you know so what are

you going to do it that was what it we

did the veins we did the lot and it has

a sort of a thing that pulls but not

quite a for skin but it s opens up the

drill comes out I just I just thought oh

I saw one of those implements at the

beginning of the film when he was doing

his um brain

surgery no they didn't say anything

penis

no a 15 ft long mechanical penis I was

rather alarmed to read that um the stunt

man has been claiming that he played the

part because he didn't I mean he might

have done a couple of shots but and and

you can't tell which ones they are I

mean I think they changed the script to

accommodate the fact that they' injured

me because this roll of Lono that came

out of the top of my head covered in

herpes and this flying harness now

anyone who flies in a harness whether

they're in Peter Pan or whatever will

tell you that it's quite a nasty

experience cuz it really grips you

squeezes your balls and so you got that

then you got this it had the texture of

lenium this tube and they they re they

injured me quite badly and so I think

they changed from then on the flying

sequences a highlight of Hellbound is

the technically amazing animation

effects created by animators Rory

fellows and Carl Watkins this art form

was slowly disappearing from the big

screen one of the things I love about

Hellbound in retrospect is that I I

can't say for sure it was literally the

last but it was probably one of the last

horror movies to use beautiful old

school Tech not that they were old

school at the time but um two of the

greatest things about Hellbound speaking

as as a card carrying nerd for me are

the fact that we have the uh the glass

paintings of the great legendary Cliff

cly in the movie uh and Alo the the stop

motion work of Rory fellow is fantastic

the big issue for

Hellbound we were doing it in the stop

motion but this was a liveaction film

and we had to make the it as accurate as

we

could and we needed to find a technique

to make the

animation convincing and not distracting

we also had we brought on Rory and Carl

uh to do stop motion animation and that

included my

creating a box called

Leviathan which is a different

thing entirely to the first

box um and working

on the mechanisms to allow stop motion

to happen on that and how to interact it

with the original box as well so there

was some extra design work for me to do

that thing about the animation team was

that we were quite quite separate in a

way we had our little gig to do and they

had their gig to do which was all the

kind of model making so it

was I what I mean by that is that it was

actually quite easy to integrate it was

you know a bit like trying to integrate

at a new school you know I I knew one of

the other new boys Cole um and we were

able to kind of hover about in our own

dark corner and slowly get to know

people as we needed to get to know them

we made big sections of of like giant

oversized versions of lament

configuration Rory fellows is an

astonishingly good animator he's now

moved to the digital side but he's one

of the last great stop motion animators

as well he we we were at the end of the

stop motion era by the time we did night

breed but we were pushing it even with

stuff we were doing then on uh

Hellraiser Carl invented or came up with

the idea of triple Expos

every frame so that we could get that

kind of smoothness of

movement um and that's how we went

forward so the

first couple of months probably were

were really just kind of experiments uh

shooting tests to see you know how we

could make these looks work stop motion

effects on Hellbound were portrayed at

their best with the creation and effects

of the chanard cyes hand tentacles

showing just how talented the animators

were so I had this sort of chat with

Tony and we then talked through the

essentially the tentacle shots which was

uh more complex and about which I think

he had less of a clear idea as to how

they would look what we might make them

look I think at the

time he saw a lot of it being done as uh

liveaction effects sort of

effects things on sticks and all the

rest of it um and I began to tell him

what I thought I could achieve with stop

motion so he asked me to do some story

boards um I did storyboards for him I

took those to his apartment and we

talked over one Sunday we spent the day

together uh talking through the shot I

think at the

time maybe half a dozen different uh

Concepts were

produced um and we settled eventually on

the one you know um the was sort of

talking well it's quite a phallic look

to it uh some of them were more Snake

like I remember snake heads dond heads

that kind of thing and bit by bit we

arrived at this idea partly because it

was going to have to be able to do

everything it was going to have to open

we did more tentacle they produce the

weapons Rory and I designed all the

weapons that come out of the tentacles

we developed all the business of you

know all the things that were going to

appear the flowers the teeth the razor

blades we had all sorts of stuff coming

out of out of the tentacle

mouths um there was a lot of time spent

with the model makers on how we would

construct the tentacles so that we could

do all this stuff what they had inside

them uh in order to make them kind of

Bend in all the rest of it once we'

established how we were going to do that

uh and we built reconstructed Ken in

different you know his arms his hands

all the rest of it then uh we shot quite

independently really of the of the live

action unit and he just told me what he

needed and that's how he went forward so

there is an advantage in tentacles CU

it's not something that we look at every

day especially not if they're coming out

of some doctor's hands so the the we did

have that on our side but at the same

time there it's it still had to look as

if it was part of him

a lot of the a lot of the issues of what

we did actually um something I learned

quite early on or realized if you like

early

on if I wanted to make the tentacle look

convincing what I had to do was to make

sure there was something back here that

was also

convincing because somewhere in your

brain you think well it's okay this is

animated I understand that but he can't

possibly have bothered to animate the

blood on you know the drip of sweat

coming down the leather jacket there or

we had chains at the back of the studio

that were just almost completely out of

focus that I had nailed them to a plank

a sort of piece of wood on the floor we

were moving that backwards and forwards

so these chains went on kind of swinging

slowly in the background which looked

like the chains in the background of the

live action shots and therefore surely

this must be happening film sets with

the addition of special effects can

often be dangerous places

when act as are clad head to toe in

latex and leather with limited

visibility those sets can become even

more dangerous we were doing the uh

death sequence it's the classic you

you're going to be hit in the chest with

a tentacles what they do is they give

you a tentacle you put put it in your

hand and you just do that so my

direction was okay just stand

there that's all I had to

do and while I was doing that so I was

doing this in front of front of a pillar

um which is spinning behind me and from

the pillar there was like a 12-in piece

of wood and then there was a chain and

then there was a rusty hook that was

about that length which I think is a

rice hook for shifting sacks of rice uh

and I mean r and it just went it

literally went right up no Nic always

found stuff to moan about it's strange

because the thing is as chatter teeth a

guy could barely open his mouth he could

do enough to go like that so it must

have been so perfectly timed to get the

hook just in the right place at the

right time and then of course you got

all that foam just there so the thing is

to get the hook to go inside and catch

his mouth remember

my is kind of

like pulling it out and just saying

teeth out nurse in oh Nick winds on

about being hooked by a chain all the

time you know we got him once one one

time one one hook got him but yeah he's

got fair fair com and look he's been

dining out on that story for 30 years so

come on mythical creatures who reside in

Hell shouldn't die however Hellbound

would become infamous for dispatching

the iconic cenobites far too easily at

the hands of the chanard cabit I think

it made sense as far as the narrative

Arc is concerned

but I thought hold on we're already dead

and we're supposed to be all powerful

and this like newbie cabi just comes and

manages to to whack some tentacles in us

and we're dead but because Kirsty comes

up and she it is perhaps we were made

more

vulnerable because we remembered our

Humanity we remembered we were once

humans you know the female cabit says we

were always here no we weren't we were

once human and perhaps that very

remembering made us more vulnerable

that's the way I've sort of thought that

it made have worked because otherwise it

doesn't make any sense whatsoever if

we're supposed to be all powerful time

traveling Dimension traveling demons how

one you know newborn cabit could kill us

so quickly but I think it it it was the

weakening that unfortunately was you

know kiry's fault but we still love her

I suppose what it's like is like

the foxes in the country when they go

and kill a chicken they get so irritated

by the all the other chickens carrying

on they just kill them all shut them

up that's what shanard did when we then

uh showed these flash Origins so to

speak of the other cyes as being people

it seemed like a natural outgrowth of

the fact that we had a stab who in his

review I'm not kidding you can look this

one for the archives called for the

jailing of me Clive and Tony Randall

named us and said that we should be put

in jail for visiting such filth upon the

public which is great I mean you can't

buy reviews like that was fantastic

because if I'd been a 14-year-old haraan

and read some knob in the daily mail

saying these guys should be in jail i'

be in line it's like yeah go see that

movie psychiatrists and social workers

for years to come will be reaping the

Whirlwind of the damaged generation from

watching films like this it's such utter

[ __ ] it I mean it is it's crap

nobody ever wound up on a psychiatrist's

chair and said I'm here because I saw

Hellraiser or insert name of horror film

here you know people end up going into

therapy for all the usual reasons money

sex

religion work combinations of these

things brief you know death

life not horror films please do me a

favor I'm pleased that the fans have

embraced

Hellbound over the years I will say uh

in all honest honesty I believe that

Hellraiser is the better

picture um to me Hellbound is very

flawed but I'm very critical of my own

work it was my first film I've directed

11 movies total now nine films in couny

Hellraiser seems to live on and on with

its highs and lows the demand for more

films exploring the mythology of Clive

Barker's world is still very much in

demand by horror fans it was clear even

while we were making Hellbound that that

that we were not going to be stopping

here that a third film was planned I was

originally hired to do Hellraiser 3 and

I didn't like the way the production was

going I thought they were really

cheapening

it um I didn't get along with the

producers and I was uh dispatched rather

abruptly one day and actually was not

unhappy about that I still have story

credit on the film but the execution of

the film is not what I would have done I

was in the crickle in the pine but not

the

Hol they had less money for the third

score than they did for the first one I

told him said I don't care whether I get

paid for this movie or not of course I

won I maybe didn't say that but I said

what's most important here guys is that

we have music that at least is

comparable to the second one I suppose

someone out there has been to see hell

raisen N I can't think what kind of

appetite he has to have done that um I

might go and see hell razor n actually I

think I might make a point of that just

to see what where it went I haven't seen

any of them um I sort of felt that the

first two probably the story the fans I

think tell you the the most in that that

they see Hellraiser one and two together

and then they they box the other ones

after that

um which is very flattering for uh for

uh for Barbie and Nick and myself that

um makes us feel like we were needed

wanted I haven't seen many of them uh if

I'm honest I've seen one of two I like

the fact that chachra has got a life of

his own out outside he'd come back in

various stop making Hellraiser films

unless you're going to make good ones

they're [ __ ] [ __ ] after nearly 30

years nine films comic books action

figures potential remakes what is the

legacy of Hellraiser and why is it so

popular today with fans around the world

I get asked obviously a lot about what

the attraction of pin head is and and

and why he kind of immediately took his

place

alongside the the other figures the main

franchises around at the time I'm

probably you know uh not able to see the

wood for the trees I don't really know

the answer I remember when we we we

first doing first started doing signings

uh for the uh hell Razer Chronicles um

and first started doing

conventions there was definitely idea of

one and two you're either a one person

or a two person people either preferred

one or the other

um now when you stack them up against

the other seven I think it's those two

that tend to be the people's

favorites um it's just cuz they're good

movies it's

still gaining momentum with the fans and

being watch and it's stood the test of

time I think cuz there's so much in it

there's so much detail everyone was

dedicated to their work it's just a

little bit of magic where everybody got

on enjoyed their work I think was a time

when there's a lot of serious politics

going on and it was just a joy to be in

a

workplace where it was complete escapism

I must stress that at the time you know

nobody thought I life but certainly I

don't think anybody else involved in it

thought you know this is going to be

groundbreaking appeal to people in a

particular way really proud of H as a

yeah as a legacy it's um sort of stood

up really well to sort of test the time

if it does still hold up today it's

because it's it's it's based in a in in

a domestic reality a familial reality

you know that that that we can relate to

that will allow us into the story and

then once we're allowed into the story

then we'll go to the extreme

imaginative uh distance with it that

that it takes us I'm really pleased that

I didn't play King John at statford

because nobody remembers that production

of King John it's completely disappeared

from every memory and home Riser 2

hasn't disappeared I mean it's it still

has an existence I wish we could you

know I wish that we could have carried

on making them with the Integrity that

they made the first two um but you know

we're still trying to keep going and

making stuff that you would want to see

but you know that's what I would say

thank you for your support thank you for

passing it on

and um I'm pleased that you've you

enjoyed it I can only uh Echo really the

words that what Boris carof always said

in in relation to Frankenstein carof was

in his

mid-40s and he said

himself um worried about where his

career was going or more importantly

wasn't going when

Frankenstein fell out of the Clear Blue

Sky for

him uh and he he talked about my dear

old monster and said I I owe him

everything um and I I have to say the

same thing really what would be my last

words would be that's a wrap

[Applause]