Original subtitles

The computer system post office spent an arm and a leg on is faulty.

Oh my god, it's just doubled right in front of my eyes.

I haven't got that money.

The horizon system was working properly.

The losses must have been caused by Mr. Castleton's own error.

How many other sub-postmasters have you found?

Six. We've all gone the record.

I'm thinking, set up a meeting, send out invitations.

See if anyone turns up.

The post office told us you're the only one.

It was a lie from this moment forward.

None of us won't be the only one ever again.

I just think you made a mistake, Sam.

I know, but the set if I plead a guilty, I could have a shot back.

How is that ever going to work?

You'll be a convicted criminal.

Look, I mean, husband, and I have to read about this in the newspaper.

It was on my own in the interview.

I thought I was doing the right thing, jazz. Please.

You're an innocent woman.

You should have pleaded not guilty like we agreed.

Come on. We're going to be late.

We're going to start with out.

It was unbelievable.

The lowest day of my life.

Hi, sorry, I've got a bit lost.

Sorry, are you, is this we're all former supposed masters? Come in.

It's okay.

Please, if I find a seat, I'm just seeing.

Sam, from Warsaw?

Yeah, well, well, we're all sharing our stories.

So, I don't know if you want to.

I had no problems till they sent us a new horizon pimp hat.

They just won't have it that there's something wrong with the thing.

They say I'm piggybacking, going into the till to pay out

of pension with one hand and pay in myself with the other.

I'm guessing they also said you were the only ones having these problems.

Yeah, I'm guessing they said the same too. Everyone else in this room, right?

I'm such a fool. I believed them.

I believed them.

When they said, just confess you took that

L5,000 and you'll be backing your shop tomorrow.

You shouldn't have done that.

It was the new pinpaddy.

It wasn't your fault. It was an air fault.

Actually, I pleaded guilty to you.

So did I.

Wait, you did.

I can't believe it. I thought we were on our own, you know? Not any more.

I'm a mother.

I don't want to go to prison.

No, we're changing you, please.

Okay, not guilty.

And this time I'm coming to court with you.

Hey.

Now, if you're thinking of going to court, just be careful.

Well, there are people here who've done time.

We've all lost our businesses and our savings.

The question is, what are we going to do about it?

Empty is my thing you snore on a minute.

It's time to be nice.

At least you take the trouble to turn it up.

Mrs Hamilton.

That's me.

James, I've got the wrongs.

Thank you for coming.

My pleasure.

Do you come in? Joe's mum.

Hello.

So, one way or another, we're all fighting back.

Everywhere we can.

We're even thinking about suing the post office.

I'd like to see you try with no money.

Well, good job talking to your MP.

Cost absolutely nothing.

It's just homemade.

Well, it looks delicious.

Thank you, I will.

We thought maybe you could talk to the government or something.

Yes, indeed.

There are two other cases in my constituency alone.

Wow, really?

It's very odd, isn't it?

I mean, the post office is a national institution.

You think you could trust them to listen to their own people.

Personally, Mr.

Arbeth? No, James, please.

I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I'm going to ask around the house.

See how many members are hearing similar stories.

Make an approach to post office management at the highest level.

I think I feel a campaign coming on.

Oh, that should operate.

And so my client, Mrs.

Corps, seeks permission to change her plea to not guilty.

This is because she had no solicitor with her during her interview under caution.

And because there is also a technical issue

which you may consider requires expert evidence concerning a pin pad.

I can't see anything here.

A pin pad was faulty? Quiet, please.

Very well, Mrs.

Corps.

I vacate your plea.

How do you now plead? Not guilty.

Is that him?

The so-called trade unionist.

He's got a bloody nerve.

Federation, ma'am.

A federation man who calls out of nowhere.

How do we know we can trust him? We don't.

What a call.

Hi, Arlen.

Found a set.

Yeah, that we've been heard of any company.

All right, everyone.

Should we make a start?

Should we make a start? Thanks.

Right.

So, welcome to the second meeting of the Justice for Supposed Masters Alliance.

Now, before we get onto our campaign update,

we have a guest who'd like permission to speak.

This is Michael Rudkin, friends.

An executive officer of the National Federation for Supposed Masters.

Not anymore.

The Federation, the Federation sent me back my membership fee.

He said he won't represent me.

They tell me to get a good criminal lawyer.

And that was the last I heard of them.

I was so called union.

I was being in bed with a post office for years.

I can't believe by the way I came in.

I can tell you my story.

Up to you, Paul.

Now, you think you're the little guys facing up to one powerful enemy.

You're wrong.

Post office don't make the computers, do they?

No, they don't design the kit.

They don't write the software.

They don't run the network.

That's a project to multinational corporation, headquarters in Brattano.

I've been there for someone they can do.

Two years ago, I got myself an invitation to Fujitsu

to sort out the issue with the foreign exchange

stock control that we were all having problems with.

Michael Rudkin, see you, George Delph.

Thanks, Mike.

19th of August, 2008.

Cheers.

Thanks, Mike.

Mr. Ruckin, George Delph, hi.

Hi, good to be here.

And you're welcome to Fujitsu.

Juicer.

Nice to follow me.

Horizon is the largest IT system in Europe.

We're very proud of that.

Outside the military, that is.

Cost of a billion pounds.

We've rolled out 40,000 terminals to your members.

So this accounts for all the James Bond stuff, does it?

All I'm expecting is there'll give me a bit of training I can pass on.

All right, stage of the hour, everything.

I must be a while a lot of my members have been complaining

about your rubbish foreign exchange stock control.

We can help.

A lot of my members have been losing money.

The bottom line.

They included.

Meet your friendly covert operations team.

They get in there, and this guy sits me down at her right and terminal.

All right, so easiest way to help is if I just

show you how to adjust your stock control manually.

Well, I said to him, is this life?

Sure, look at the clock.

So if I start by adjusting this from sterling to Euros, I'll ask her to him.

You're inside some suppose master's horizon, and he doesn't know.

Said, yeah, yeah, I am.

How was am I going to show you how to do this?

And then right in front of my eyes, he starts changing the suppose master's figures.

Excuse me.

I've been telling my members for years, no

one else has access to their branch accounts.

Okay, well, I'd better put the figures back the way

they were then or they weren't balanced tonight.

Yeah.

They're just judgment. Do you know what this means?

It means they can sneak in behind your book, change

your figures, book her off and leave with no trace.

No, no, no, no, no, no. They said that was impossible.

They said that the branch accounts

were totally secure. That's what it told me. They lied.

But if they're getting into our accounts and messing about in there,

then it's a bit rich for them to claim that we

have a 100% responsibility when money goes missing.

Exactly.

So I drive home from Fujitsu, the next morning I

wake up and my wife is stood at the foot of

our bed and there's an order to beside her.

Your post office is now 44,000 pounds in deficit, says he.

Coincidence? Revenge? My wife ran the post

office when I was away on Federation business.

So although I was the postmaster, my poor wife is now a convicted criminal.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Wait, Mr. Rookill, thank you.

Thank you.

I won't do any good.

So they punished him. They punished him for standing up to him, so they did to me.

They knew how to fight him, but they knew I

didn't stand a chance. They just did it to teach

me a lesson to teach everyone in this room a lesson,

that's what we're up against. That is what we're up against.

The post office is still investigating, so it's

going to take a bit longer than we thought,

as it's now 36 charges? How many? 36 charges. No, no, no, that's totally wrong.

I've got the indictment right here, Jazz. It's definitely now 36 charges.

It was 19, where have all these new ones come from?

I don't know, I don't remember.

And what about this? A shortfall. It's now 11,000, that's more than doubled.

He's selling everyone stamps with a picture of

the queen on them. We love the queen, don't we?

That's all right. Yeah, it's just all these delays that do in both our heads in.

Jazz, I think we should get a medical report when

cases go on and unlike this, it can be hard for the defendant.

She's fine.

I'm just going to see if they're ready for us.

Everyone's eyes are on me.

It's okay.

Sam, can you get the phone?

Hello? Oh, it's Joe. Go, she had me worried there.

I'm just checking in on you. Are you okay?

I'm up and down. Are you getting out at all? Oh, I can't go out.

Not to the good of the world and not even to the supermarket.

I see people I know, sometimes they look surprised to see me and I wonder.

Do they think I've gone to prison already? Oh, Sam.

If I just had the money first, you'd be trying to get it.

I wouldn't be much fun for you, Joe. Oh, God! Sam, what is it? It's okay.

It's okay. I'm a right job. It's just a postman.

Every time the door goes, I think it is them. Come to get me.

Oh, I don't know what you're supposed to say.

No idea this was happening to other people. I thought I was the only one.

Though nights I was just sobbing, didn't know what to do, how to get out this mess.

Sounds like it was very traumatic for you.

Well, it's not just me that it's traumatic for.

I just think that the post office needs to investigate this.

There's just got to be something else going on,

because it can't be happening to this many people.

Joe was crazy. She's a natural.

Yeah, but who was listening?

How can Sam die about these allegations against the post office?

I'm very concerned about this.

Cases seem to be cropping up all over the country.

Who knew it, or the MP could be so nice?

The post office for being, I think, pretty hard-nosed

in the way they've taken the case with the court.

No trouble is nobody watches local news.

I think the bosses need to think again, and be more sympathetic.

They're all.

A tiny number of ex-subpost masters who appear to be making distinct

allegations with respect to the operation of the horizon system.

But in two of the cases, the individuals have

in the past pleaded guilty to false accounting.

I have written back to the Member of Parliament, making clear that post

office limited does not accept any of the allegations that are being made,

and will robustly defend its position if any civil action is mounted against it.

Freedom of information.

Just when you think you've cracked it, they

come up with a new trick to keep us in the dark.

Listen to this.

You're only allowed a question to ask a question that

will take one person less than 18 hours to research.

I mean, what?

What do you think? Hey.

Try and have a life here, Alan.

I just want to be able to take on holiday again.

This is a proper holiday, a broad, not just camping.

And still half of Snowdonia waiting to be quiet.

A, the post office has taken all our money.

B, my knees are way too old for snowed enough.

And see, you can't possibly go on holiday,

too busy campaigning, morning, noon and night.

This is all taking too long.

OK.

Hiya. OK. Sorry of late.

What the hell, nope. So, it's a concept.

It's OK.

So, Sam, what you got?

Sam.

It's OK.

Sam, what have you done?

How have you done this?

Sam, look at me, what?

Why don't you do something?

I need an ambulance, please.

It's a 45 foul field road. Also, WS29WBB for Bravo.

You're too old for me.

I need to help you, OK?

I tried everything.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's OK.

It's OK, I'm here.

Good luck with you.

Hey, can you stop snaring us?

Just mind your own business!

Come on, it's OK, Sam.

What's the next one? Oh, it's candy.

Candy, OK.

So, if you can find it.

He's doing well, yeah.

We'll be doing the spelling bee soon.

No? Hello.

Mr. Singh? Yeah, yeah.

Can I have a word?

Yeah, two minutes and then burgers, OK?

Hey, how are you doing?

I want to stress you'll be sedated.

Do you want to feel anything?

ECT had a lot of bad press at one point, but re-continue to find it very useful

in giving relief to patients a severely depressed asserman.

And nothing else we've tried has worked, so...

Just don't go home and Google it, Mr. Singh.

We'll talk more later, no.

Like, you're not going to Google it.

Hello? It's mad.

But you're not the worst thing, Joe.

If I don't let her carry on, bleeding guilty, like she wanted to.

In the first place.

All right, yeah.

She might have gone to prison, but... She'd be up by now.

Oh, jeez.

My boy would have a mother.

And Sam would be free.

Great.

Great.

The problem is relatively very small,

very few complaints, but this is a very serious matter for the post office,

whose business rests on our reputation for being trustworthy.

We all represent constituents who tell us that your helpline

is of little value, the training you offer is minimal.

Angela is our head of network services.

Thank you.

Well, the helpline and support are there.

Now, whether staff take it up or not, that's another matter.

Mrs. Venils, is the post office saying that horizon is 100% foolproof,

because that will make it the first perfect

software system ever implemented by government.

The system is robust, and gentlemen, we have nothing to hide.

Indeed, we're ready to mount and fund an independent review.

Well, that's marvelous.

And I'm sure Mr. Bates and the justice for South Post

Monsters Alliance will be thrilled to get involved with that.

Thank you for the missed me, Susan.

How is life in the sleepy old post office?

Is it easy? I wish.

High finance misses you, kid.

I'm a proud public servant now.

Well, that wage is not half as much fun as your old life.

Chasing down villains and fraudsters with me.

Susan, is that what we're doing here? I don't know.

That's why I hired you.

Ah, Angela Vandenberger is head of network services.

Bob Rutherford from Second Sight.

Angela, nice to meet you.

Here to help.

We've pulled a dozen files for you to look at.

All the cases the MPs have been pushing.

Anything else you want, though, we can provide.

Accounts, procedures, backgrounds, are for upper-list.

And I'd like to visit few jits to in Brackenaw.

No problem.

Oh, are you not staying?

Knowing you have old Bob, I imagine you're itching to get on the road.

Thank you all.

Alan, you can't go meet him on your own.

Because how will you know what to ask this investigator?

And because she's my neighbour and she's really nice and she wants to help.

Kaylin L, past master and livery man.

Kaylin L, forensic accountant, Alan, bite around off.

Alan.

Alan Bates.

Yeah.

Kaylin L, past master and livery man of the worshipful company of arbitrators.

You've been looking me up.

And board of the inland revenues form a chief

prosecuting and investigating accountant.

Now that was a fun job.

Shall we?

May I underline that although the post office has

agreed to fund this independent investigation,

Mr. Rutherford's organisation's second site will be working for us, the MPs,

and therefore indirectly for you, justice for sub-person officers' alliance.

So, Alan, Kay, what would you like to know?

Well, I'd like to know exactly what makes you think you're qualified to do this job.

Well, I'm a forensic accountant of many years experience.

I don't doubt your paper qualifications, Mr. Rutherford.

I have them here in front of me, but I see nothing to persuade me that second site is

remotely capable of producing a truly independent report.

One that's ready to bite the hand that feeds you.

Bob Rutherford is a member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.

He has led hundreds of investigations all

over the world into banking fraud, corruption, rogue traders, subprime mortgages.

Doesn't answer my question.

How can we be sure you will investigate fairly and independently?

Because the people who suggested me know me have old,

and that they want to hire me because they know what I like to do best,

which is to clear innocent people who look guilty.

I still don't see how we can trust him when he's taking post office money.

Well, you can't pay him. I can't pay you either.

I'll help him my spare time.

What a really neat is. Lawyers will work for nothing.

One day, you'll find your precious lawyers, and we'll get the scandal into court.

But we'll need evidence, which mortals like us haven't a hope of getting our hands on.

But Bob's outfit, second site.

They'll have access to seven years of raw data.

This Bob.

We can't just look at individual cases, though.

He has to look at horizon as a whole, as a system.

Might take it you're happy to support his investigation.

Well, being is it's the only one we've got.

When I first came to the post office, they were

introducing chip and pen, and it never worked properly.

The base unit, the horizon computer, whatever you

call it, the thing that sits under the counter,

I thought of it as like an alien thing.

Sometimes engineers would come from Fujitsu, the clever badges on.

And I never had any idea what they were doing.

This is probably a really stupid question, Bob.

There were no such things as stupid questions, only stupid answers.

That 36,000 pounds, I'm supposed to have lost.

Where did it go? I haven't got it.

So who has?

I don't know, but I'm gonna find out.

It's been in breakfast now.

We're private people, Bob.

This was our family home.

But the post office gave us no option, you know, the way of making a living.

Thank you.

Jason.

My wife has had it so much harder than me.

Susan was in charge while I was away on Federation business.

She never told me so I had no idea she was in trouble.

Even though at least half my work in Federation was horizon related by then.

I said to her, you were in my fucking career.

You've destroyed our business.

Mr. Radkin, please don't feel obliged to settle.

I said that before, sir.

Are they punished my wife?

Who never stole a penny piece?

Just because I got inside Fujitsu and saw something that I shouldn't have.

I think what I had was a computer book.

They just called a calendar square book that I can't be sure.

But it was real.

It was real.

Other people had it.

Yeah, I tried to tell the court that I just kept sort of saying it wrong.

And the more I tried, the more I can't explain it.

It was like I was on the edge of a great dark hole.

I was just falling into it.

The thing is, I knew that they were lying and I knew that I was telling the truth.

I just thought this is British justice.

That's all I've got to do is tell the truth.

But... Sorry.

Oh, sorry, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was just trying to tell you.

No.

No, it's just the more of you people I meet,

unless I know how you're all still standing.

Susan?

I'm expecting you today.

We need to speak now.

Always good to see an old friend, but I do have a diary.

Not to don't, don't.

Lee cast.

You know, the one you handed all the way to the Royal Court of Justice.

That was my predecessor.

Well, you knew he didn't have any money.

You have humiliated him. You have bankrupted him, and I don't get it.

Yes, I don't know why we did that.

Well, let me suggest two reasons. One, you're stupid.

Or two, you want to rub his nose in the dirt, use him to frighten off everyone else.

I wasn't even here then.

Not pleased. What is wrong with you, people?

Are we ever to see the pin pad that Mrs.

Cora ledges was responsible for her shortfalls?

Your honour, I can now confirm that post office

limited is unable to produce the pin pad in question.

Because I'm told it was sent away for repair and has been reprogrammed.

So it was faulty.

In those circumstances, your honour, the prosecution offers no evidence.

This matter has dragged on for three years.

I direct that a not guilty verdict be entered on all 36 counts on the indictment.

Mrs. Cora, you're free to leave.

Court rise.

Hey. See? You were right.

It was faulty.

So I'm three years of our life's supposed to open now.

Okay. No.

Because there won't ever put another picture

in the paper, will they decide on innocent? Come on.

We're making progress.

Now the investigation is properly up and running.

I just thought enough go betweens for the good idea to bring you two together.

I do hope it's been useful for both of you.

Terrific idea.

Thank you James.

And Alan, I do hope you'll take away from this a sure understanding

that post offices is fully committed as you are to resolving this situation.

Thank you.

And if there's anything else? No, I actually.

Why are you only looking at 12 cases?

Well, they are the 12 cases put forward by members of parliament.

All the cases where we are alert to the possibility of miscarriage of justice.

There are a lot more though, Paula.

Victims who were never charged with any criminal offense,

but perhaps your people haven't told you about that.

About all the destitution people sleeping in

their cars losing their house, their health.

Surely you'd like to hear from them too.

Is that your throw away exit line?

I was just thinking, you know, you knew the full story.

You wouldn't want that on your conscience, so.

Well, shall I suggest a few names? Oh, yes.

Good idea.

These are what I have here.

Bob, good to hear from you.

Hi there.

The day you went to few digits.

Are you sure it was the 19th of all? 2008.

Yeah, never forget that.

Last day of our whole life.

Michael, you're not down as a visitor on their security logs.

Post office are denying that your visit ever happened.

Of course they are.

Can you prove it?

Michael, can you prove you were there?

Bob, there's four years ago.

I don't work for the post of us anymore.

I think you knew your best friend, but then you can do a proper job.

It's like, it's lovely to be here.

Thank you.

Paula, how often did you get to visit a place like this?

Probably once a month if I can.

Oh, what kind of police?

I mean, you're the big boss to think they're getting intimidated.

No, this is the post office.

I get treated the same as everybody else and they tell me how it is.

And what it like being the chief executive of a major company?

Well, I think you can tell by the smile on my face that it's great.

Retail is detailed.

Shut up, you have it.

Shut up, you silly cow.

Come on, come on, get your breakfast.

I represent evidence to show that the post office has made failures in support,

investigation, training, and I find clear evidence of two bugs.

Two. We gave you 47 cases.

47. At this draft report of yours only mentions three.

Where's Michael Rooken who could prove their lying about remote access?

He can't prove it, actually.

Well, members of Parliament would certainly like to see more individual cases.

Oh, look, the point is not individual cases.

The point is total systemic failure, which you don't mention.

Well, we haven't found hard evidence of that.

Well, what would you call the endless pinpowder novelies?

And shortfalls doubling before people's eyes and overnight so-called corrections?

Well, there were 68,000 users processing six million transactions a day.

Well, this is just the gospel according to the post column for it to be systemic.

That would have to mean that the whole network was affected, and it just isn't.

What about the way they abuse their power and prosecute people

without investigating properly, and then terminate them.

On three months notice, walk away with their life savings.

Is that not a systemic failure?

We all agreed from the beginning that the report should be accurate.

Post office has left a trail of destruction ever since the day

that Horizon was introduced, and we're just sitting around

chatting about it while they're still ruining lives.

Systemically.

Ah, I agree to this.

I must have been mad.

Well, someone with bees at their bonnets.

I was born in Liverpool.

He's an accountant, Alan. He's naturally cautious.

Cautious like you.

I can be cautious.

What's with me and they're banging the table.

Let's see, you know they will agree before.

All that grandstanding of me. I look that from you, okay?

Ah, I don't get angry. I just get frustrated.

Second sight are going to have to come up with something better than this.

Bob, how's it going? Michael, good.

Erm, any luck?

It's been a long time.

A lot of water under the bridge.

Yeah, okay.

I understand.

But, er, see you touched.

Oh, my fucking good God.

Michael, thank you.

Thank you so much.

So, Bob, I can confirm that in August 2008,

the basement of Fujitsu's building in Brachnott did

contain a horizon testing vitamin note, a test environment.

And that's what we believe you're supposed to master Mr. Redkin saw.

He got the wrong end of the stick.

The test environment wasn't physically connected to the live horizon system,

so it wasn't possible for the transactions he thought he saw to be real.

Got it. Thank you.

Let's clear that up.

Good.

See you out.

Thank you for joining me by conference call.

I'm sorry for the short notice in keeping the board updated.

The Horizon Review Interim Report will be presented to MPs in one week's time.

The report has found no systemic issues with the Horizon Computer system,

but I am concerned that the report from the independent forensic accountant

is not as factual as expected and could lead to loose language.

What are you? poacherton gamekeeper. This report of yours

turns out to be not how bad considering the same price.

I like it.

I just hope it makes a difference.

What got Michael Ruddkin into the final version?

An email inviting him to Brachnott, copied the seven name post office executive.

Hold on.

Okay, first they say he wasn't there, then they say

he was there, but what he's glasses were broken.

I wonder if they even know they're talking volumes.

Welcome aboard Bob.

Yeah, they still say that there's no remote access into your accounts.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm going to be

able to prove that they're wrong and that you're right on this one.

Ah, but Alan there are things in documents that I found in the post office files.

But you don't believe going to tell me more?

Someone else I need to tell first.

Hello all.

We've ever seen a sunshine in your gorgeous.

I was hoping you'd be sitting somewhere quiet.

Yeah, I can do that or I can put the kettle on.

Me and Joshua will put the kettle on.

You'll investigate a Ryan Fleming.

The third.

So do you ever see his reporter bay?

No.

17th of May 2006, he recorded that he had analyzed your horizon accounts

and was unable to find any evidence of theft.

I plead guilty to false counting instead.

Yes, no evidence means they had no right to

charge you with theft and therefore no right

to plea bargain you down to false accounting.

Joe, no evidence means they had no right to take you to court at all.

Everything I've gone through, everything I've lost, 10

years of heartache and sleepless nights and always skin.

They destroyed our whole life for a life.

What kind of people are they?

The second site report presented to MPs in Westminster today

was expected to include criticism of the horizon

computer system and of the senior management

of the post office. But while the report

does raise concerns about unreliable hardware

and poor training, a post office spokesman said

the investigation clearly shows its horizon

system as a whole is operating as it should.

MPs praised the post office for the way they dealt with these difficult issues.

Alan Bates? Alan, it's Paul of Annals.

Paula.

Chocking. So I was thinking... Where do we go from here?

Well, um, I've been thinking about that too.

Well, great. It should the two of us try and find a way forward.

If you want something done properly, do it yourself.

Exactly.

Well, how can I help?

d Cardos born is hiding in those weak and drunken hearts d

d 'Cause he kissed the girls and made them cry d

d It was hard face creams, a missing adventure d

d Peep, hippo, hippo, hippo d

d And if you're a sick, give me your hand and I'll hold you d

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