All language subtitles for (2019) Bully. Coward. Victim.The Story of Roy Cohn

SISTER ALICE: Mr. Mason,
it's hard to believe

that you're the right person
for the job.

PERRY MASON: I'm the only person
for this job.

♪ ("SOLID GROUND"
BY MICHAEL KIWANUKA PLAYS) ♪

It's a complicated case.

This one's really got its hooks
in me.

♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES,
CONCLUDES) ♪

This is my grandfather,
Julius Rosenberg.

And this is

Julius and Ethel
Rosenberg together.

My father and my uncle were...

around ten and six...

um, when they were electrocuted.

They were accused of stealing
the atom bomb secret.

I wanna ask my dad

how people started
thinking about

why Ethel and Julius
stole the atom bomb secret.

Why he accused them.

What happened was that

the government of
the United States wanted to...

make your grandma
and grandpa...

make up some lies
about a lot of people,

so that these people,

who the government
of the United States
didn't like,

would all get put in jail.

But they refused to tell those
lies because if they did,

then other people
would be killed.

What I wanna do is I wanna say

to the people who
killed my parents,

25 years ago,
you killed two people,

but you did not
crush our struggle.

We are still here,
and we are still struggling,

and we are united
in the statement

that it will never happen again.

Barry Farber:
Roy Cohn, when he was
virtually just a teenager,

sent Julius
and Ethel Rosenberg
to the electric chair.

You've had 30 years,

30 years since
the Rosenbergs were executed.

Have you spent
one of those nights

sleepless for sending
this couple to the chair?

Of course not, Barry.
This couple
was convicted by a jury,

and if ever the death
penalty were appropriate,

it was in that case.

Is there
a police officer?

(indistinct dialogue)

Roy Cohn:
What can I say?

That I haven't been discreet?

I never claimed
to be discreet.

(indistinct chatter)

Hey, Ernie. Come on.

I claim to be upfront
and totally candid.

And I claim not
to be a hypocrite.

We believe that the free world
is gonna win the Cold War,

and win this fight by
one thing: the truth.

I'm a guy who's taken
tough positions,

starting with
the Rosenberg case,

starting with
the McCarthy period.

I don't see the difference

between Nazism and Hitler
on the one hand,

and Communism
on the other hand.

What I do,
I do on the basis
of moral judgments

as I make them,
as only I must make them,

according to
my own conscience.

I reserve that right,
the right to make judgments

about myself
and other people,

and have
other people make
them about me.

Someone wants
to be my detractor,

that is that
person's privilege.

I just don't care.

Pat Buchanan:
"I'll show them what
the national interest is.

I'll hold up
the army to ridicule."

I said that?

-According to a book I read.
-Well, read another book.

(indistinct dialogue)

Cohn:
I found out
one thing in life.

Don't ever threaten unless
you intend to follow through.

Cohn:
Everything I do
has to be true.

I will not say anything that
I cannot repeat under oath.

Peter Manso:
In 1980, I went to
"Playboy Magazine,"

and I said I'd like
to do an interview

of Roy Cohn
for the magazine.

Manso (on tape):
Testing, testing.

Roy Cohn, Peter Manso.

Actually,
why don't we do this?
Why don't we just break here?

Cohn (on tape):
Okay. Have we
covered a lot of...

Manso (on tape):
We're getting there,
we're getting there.

Manso:
I simply called Roy
at his law firm,

Saxe, Bacon, & Bolan
in New York,

uh, left a message,
and five minutes later,

the phone rang, and it was Roy
at the other end of the phone.

"Sounds interesting.
When do you wanna

get together to talk about it?"

We started taping at his
place in North Greenwich,

an hour or so
north of New York.

Cohn:
Okay, go ahead.

Manso:
Uh, so, presumably,
your clients,

the wealthy,
social register types,
da da da,

have come to you
over the years because
you gained a reputation

for getting things done.
For winning.

Does all this go back
to what you learned
from McCarthy?

The so-called
"Achilles heel" technique?

Cohn:
Uh, I wouldn't say

it's what I learned
from McCarthy.

I think it's what
I started learning during
the Rosenberg trial,

what I learned at
the US district
attorney's office,

when I made up my mind
that law is an adversary
profession.

One side wins,
one side loses.

And I don't--
I don't like to lose.

-I hate to lose.
-Manso: Mm-hmm.

Cohn:
So, I just made up my mind
I was gonna do

everything I could in the way
of careful preparation...

-Manso: Mm-hmm.
-Cohn: ...in the way
of tough fighting

to be a winner.

Manso:
It became clear
to me right away

that my stereotyping
of Roy was inadequate.

To call him evil, it's true,

but it doesn't explain 100
other things about Roy Cohn.

He was bright,
he was contentious,

but I think what appealed
to me most about Roy is

that he was a lawless madman.

Cohn:
I would say I'm probably
more of a maverick.

I do have a crazy
list of clients.

The usual reaction isn't
"Ah, Roy Cohn
represents the mob."

It's "Roy Cohn
and Studio 54.

"Roy Cohn
and anti-Communism.

"Roy Cohn
and the archdiocese.

"Roy Cohn, the friend of...

"the lawyer for
Donald Trump.

"Roy Cohn, good friend
of George Steinbrenner

"who owns
the New York Yankees.

"Roy Cohn,
the friend of congressmen,

senators, judges."

(explosion)

Narrator: Someone had
passed America's atomic
bomb secrets to Russia.

This was an undisputed fact
that the whole world knew.

The federal government
had laid the crime
at the doorstep

of two native New Yorkers,
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.

Michael Meeropol:
My parents grew up during
the Great Depression.

The Communists were
the ones who were fighting

for the rights of
tenants and workers,

and so, they were
naturally drawn to it.

In World War II,
given the wartime alliance

with the Soviet Union,

Communism was allied
with Americanism.

It became a natural thing

to politically support

the survival of
the Soviet Union.

My father made
a big deal at the trial

that he liked
the Soviet Union

because it had torn the guts
out of the Hitler beast

that killed six million
of my fellow Jews.

When my children
were young,

they learned
that Judge Kaufman

sentenced their
grandparents to death.

David Greenglass,
my mother's brother,

who was a machinist
at Los Alamos,

claimed that Julius
and Ethel Rosenberg

recruited him to be a spy
for the Soviet Union.

And that's where Roy Cohn
enters the scene.

He coached David Greenglass
to develop his testimony,

examined David Greenglass
at the trial.

The two of them together
were the reason

my parents were convicted,

and the reason
they were executed.

(birds chirping)

Ivy Meeropol:
Think back when
you were a kid.

-Did you-- Were you
aware of Roy Cohn?
-No.

In 1955, I read

"The Judgment of Julius
and Ethel Rosenberg"
by John Wexley.

And there was
the reference to Roy Cohn,

and I'd already heard about
him because of McCarthy.

-And how old were you?
-1955, I was 12.

-Wow. That's quite a book
to read when you're 12.
-Yeah,

well, 'cause
I didn't understand it much,
but it certainly--

the name Roy Cohn
stuck in my mind

'cause I had seen
the stuff on TV
about McCarthy.

And I knew that McCarthy
was a "bad man,"

not that I knew
any of the details.

Cohn:
I had graduated from
college and law school,

and gotten both degrees in
three years and four months.

I went to
the US attorney's office.

I was a kid.
I was not yet 20.

I had prosecuted
internal security cases,
counterfeiting,

narcotics, and I had
a minor name because of that.

I examined David Greenglass.

I was then...

a big, fat 23 years old

and I sort of put
the case together.

I think that
the death sentence

imposed by
Judge Irving R. Kaufman

in the Atom Spy Trial had
a very strong deterrent effect.

I think it's been
a very good year

on the anti-Communist
front in this country.

Alan Dershowitz:
He was known as the guy

who got the conviction
and execution
of the Rosenbergs.

And I think he saw this as
a stepping stone to glory,

and it worked.

Cohn:
I became Chief Counsel

for the Senate
Investigating Committee

when Senator McCarthy
became chairman.

Government agencies had
covered up security risks

and had left people
in sensitive positions.

Our job was
to show cover-ups.

David Lloyd Marcus:
He had to always be
the tough guy in the room.

He had to be the one
who was the most macho.

Now, how to do it in the '50s?
Well, you went after Communists.

I don't think you
understood the question.

The question was,
do you know this man?

Can you look at the picture and
tell us whether you know him?

I would assume
the answer is yes or no.

Senator Joseph McCarthy:
Can you answer

the simple question of
whether he's a Communist?

-(indistinct)
-Abraham Unger:
Your statements--

Your statements about him

-have made it difficult for me--
-(banging)

-I want it put on the record--
-McCarthy: Officer,
will you remove the man?

-Will you remove him?
-I want--

David Lloyd Marcus:
McCarthy didn't know anything
about Communists, really,

but Roy found

by being on his shoulder,

by pushing, pushing,
pushing him,

he was a mover and shaker.

He didn't wanna be
in McCarthy's seat
being the Senator,

but he wanted to be the guy
behind the power brokers.

Cohn:
The last way to be
politically ambitious

as a Jewish
New York Democrat,
which I was and am,

is by becoming counsel
for Senator McCarthy,

so I was hardly down
there for any...

political ambition.

I was down there to do
more in this type of work,

in which I believed then,
and which I believe now.

Taki Theodoracopulos:
Roy was a hero to many...

(applause)

who had seen Communism up close,

as was the case of myself.

For me,
Communism was far worse

than any--
anything I'd ever seen.

I could imagine the worst thing
you could be was a Communist

because you were a danger to--

To our way of life,
to our way of thinking,

and Roy was brought up
in that climate.

Tony Kushner:
I imagine this guy

coming of age
during World War II,

and the terror

of what would we happen
when we ceased to be

the only country in the world
that had nuclear weapons.

The Communist Party
is not a political party.

It's a criminal conspiracy.

Its object is the overthrow
of the government
of the United States

by force and violence

as soon as
the right time arrives.

Yes, they're
traitors to America.

Woman:
Why don't we do
something about it?

They are enemies!
They are not Americans!

(indistinct shouting)

They are homosexuals!
They're Communists!

-(yelling)
-They're Communists!

Kushner:
The two groups that
were initially tagged

with the red taint

more than any other groups
in this country

were homosexuals and Jews.

-(gavel banging)
-McCarthy:
There's another group...

about which I hesitate to...

talk, but I think the picture
isn't complete unless we do.

Some of them have that
unusual affliction

because of no fault
of their own.

Most, of course,
because they're morally weak.

The pervert is easy
prey to the blackmailer.

It follows that if
blackmailers can exhort money
from these individuals,

espionage agents can use
the same type of pressure.

They're dangerous
to this country.

We know that Communists
writing about the United States

are not giving the true picture.

And that is why
we don't believe

that Amerika Haus,
which is supposed to give
a true picture

of life in the United States,

should contain books
written by Communists,

who are dedicated to
wiping the United States

off the face of the Earth

and substituting the freedom
we have in America

for the spiritual
and mental enslavement

you have in the Soviet Union.

Announcer:
The McCarthy Committee
was now charging that

State Department
libraries overseas

contained subversive volumes.

Cohn and his friend,
G. David Schine,

the young Harvard graduate

and heir to
the Schine Hotel fortune,

were dispatched on a tour
of our libraries overseas.

We suddenly became the enemy

of McCarthy and his cohorts.

They said, "Do you have
"The Maltese Falcon"?"

I said "Yes, they're right
over here in the library."

And Cohn turned and says,

"You see? Nothing
but Communist books

here in the library."

They didn't really
succeed very much

on this particular junket.

But they became notorious.

(upbeat rock music playing)

Lois Romano:
They were two kids

that were encouraged
by McCarthy and others

to go make this global trip.

And people who encouraged
them were adults

who didn't realize how
bad it was gonna look.

Kushner:
There were stories
that I had heard

of them sort of chasing
each other through

the Ritz in Paris
in their towels.

Theodoracopulos:
After Cohn and Schine
came back from Europe,

Schine got drafted.

He was just a GI,
just a buck private.

Roy used his position
with McCarthy,

and tried to get the army

to give Schine
favorite treatment.

(inaudible)

Senator McCarthy said,

"Roy thinks that Dave

"ought to be a General

"and operate from a penthouse

on the Waldorf Astoria,"
or words to that effect.

(chuckling)

I asked him what would happen
if Schine got overseas duty.

He responded
with vigor and force,

"We'll wreck the army."

I never knew what hung
on Schine's walls--

Joseph Welch:
You did know what
hung on Schine's wall

when that was
handed to you, sir.

Did you think this
came from a pixie?

(laughter)

Counsel, to my
benefit, define--

-I think he might be
an expert on that...
-Welch: Yeah.

-...on what a pixie is.
-Welch: Yes, I should say...

I should say,
Mr. Senator, that a pixie

is a close relative of a fairy.

(loud laughter)

Trying to find out why...

Kushner:
Roy Cohn risked
being exposed

on national television
as a pixie,

the close relationship
to a fairy.

He went after
the US Armed Forces

because he wanted
his boyfriend back.

And he dragged poor, drunk,

stupid McCarthy along with him,

into this debacle
for the two of them.

Romano:
Everybody thought he
was finished after that.

This little snot-nosed
26-year-old who
was grilling people.

They thought he was just
gonna be some has-been,

and everybody was gonna
dance on his grave.

And, you know,
from the ashes, he rose.

(big band music playing)

Manso:
By the time you
returned to New York,

after leaving
McCarthy in '54,

there was quite a lucrative
law practice waiting.

Cohn:
Oh, I suppose through

my derivative friendship
with my father's friends,

who had known him
in the course of

his quarter of
a century on the bench.

That brought me together

with the top Democratic
leadership in New York.

And from there on,
I steadily worked my way up.

(party chatter)

Reporter:
There's always that
one event, that one party

where some people want to be,
and they wanna be seen there.

Bob O'Brien:
The limousines
came to the back door

of Studio 54 tonight.

Roy was celebrating his
birthday at a black tie affair

for over 200
of his close friends,

thrown by close friend
Steve Rubell.

Some of Cohn's friends
included former
Mayor Abe Beame

Deputy Mayor
Herman Badillo,

and Brooklyn Democratic
leader Meade Esposito.

I was here for his last
year's birthday party,

and it was really fun,
so I had to come again.

O'Brien:
Why does Joey Adams come to
say happy birthday to Roy Cohn?

I wanna tell you something.

Roy has been
my buddy for a long time,

and I don't need him.
I'm not getting a divorce.

I'm not a member of the mafia.
I don't sniff coke.

I don't need him,
and yet he's my friend.

They know I'll be there,

and I always know that
they'll be there, so it's...

The people here tonight
really aren't a question of

who did what for whom.

It's just a question of

who's meant what to whom
over a long period of time.

David Lloyd Marcus:
That's him at his
Greenwich house.

-Oh...
-Being his usual notorious,
pernicious self.

-Alice Marcus: Yes, indeed.
David Lloyd Marcus:
I think a lot of people have

family members they
don't wanna talk about.

Family members who were--
have some evil, but he was...

he was a personification
of evil.

-Absolutely.
-Yep.

-Every family has its Roy Cohn.
-Alice: Oh, I hope not.

The world would be a terrible
place if that happened.

David Lloyd Marcus:
I grew up in a family
where our family activity

was to march against
the Vietnam War, so

I was very conscious
of the fact that
my parents, you know,

were very upset about
the Rosenbergs, about McCarthy,

about all these
things that Roy was--

was intricately involved in.

But I was
a budding journalist,

and I paid attention to him.

Roy was the outer borough kid,

an only child who
grew up in the Bronx.

Roy's mother was Dora Marcus,

who married Al Cohn,
who became a judge.

His dad was a very powerful
Democrat in the Bronx,

who mingled with
Democrats all the time.

And yet, Roy somehow
morphed into a Republican.

Somehow morphed into
arch-conservative.

I think Roy grew up
with this notion

he had to do better
than his father.

He had to be more important,

more impressive,
more in the news.

And then he lived
with this specter

of his Uncle Bernie,

who was involved in
a savings and loan problem,

going to Sing Sing.

He always talked about
going to see Uncle Bernie
in Sing Sing,

and that was a scarring,
scary memory for him.

Ivy Meeropol:
I mean, I can't help
thinking about he then sent

my grandparents to Sing Sing.

He sent your grandparents--
I'm sitting here,

talking to you
about my cousin,

who sent your
grandparents to Sing Sing,

after watching my grandfather

go to Sing Sing and be ruined.

Roy's lesson was, "That's
never gonna happen to me.

I'm never gonna
be the victim."

Ivy Meeropol:
Do you remember
when we went to DC

-and went to see
the AIDS quilt?
-Michael Meeropol: Yes.

We walk in from
a particular location,

and right in front of us,

the first quilt
we see is Roy Cohn.

-Ivy Meeropol: It was crazy.
-Michael Meeropol:
It really was.

Thousands of panels and...

probably, you know, I mean,
any number of ways

-we could've come onto the mall.
-Absolutely.

-We couldn't believe it.
-And it--

It did feel like a--
some strange message.

And what's interesting
about that is, of course,

if we had come someways else,
we might not have even

-known he had a panel.
-Right.

Michael Meeropol:
It was like a holy shit
moment.

It's almost like God
wanted us to find

Roy Cohn's panel to remind us

that we were still
in the middle

of this unbelievable battle.

I see the universe, Joe,

as a kind of sandstorm
in outer space,

with winds of mega
hurricane velocity.

But instead of
grains of sand,

it's shards
and splinters of glass.

Kushner:
I think that
the character of Roy Cohn

jumped out at me

because he was
not only Jewish

but-- like me,
but also gay like me.

-I have...
-Kushner: And he
also seemed to be

one of the worst human
beings that ever lived.

Listen, Ailene, you think
I'm the only goddamn lawyer

in history ever
missed a court date?!

Don't make such
a big fucking-- Hold.

-(beep)
-You hag!

Nathan Lane:
Most people, when they
think of Roy Cohn,

think of the character
in the play.

And it's only now that people

really are more
aware of the real...

person Roy Cohn.

I think Mr. Vidal has lapsed
into an uncharacteristic modesty

and I don't think he should.
He's very articulate...

Lane:
On talk shows,

he's nerdy and creepy,

but very sort of
lawyerly, polite,

everyone is Mister and Missus.

But, in private, I think
he was very different.

(jazzy music playing)

Theodoracopulos:
I first met Roy,

as everybody did in
those days, in El Morocco

in '56.

And he, of course,
was famous by then.

El Morocco was the chicest

and most exclusive
nightclub of the time.

It was the kind of place
where only very
high society went,

plus some loose characters

who were welcome
because it gave

sort of some spice
to the place.

That's where Roy made
all his contacts.

He would come in
with those hooded lids,
looking so ominous.

(laughs) He was like
Dracula coming out of
his box at midnight.

(inaudible)

Cohn: What came out
of the McCarthy period,
even its disasters,

was the feeling
that I was different
from most other lawyers.

People didn't perceive
me as a typical

bill-by-the-hour,
do-nothing shyster,

but as someone
who can be trusted.

When people call Roy Cohn
to solicit his services,

what are they looking for?
What are they buying?

I think a principal thing
they're buying is scare value.

It was not in his briefcase.

They do not allege it
was in his briefcase.

I've read the complaint,
and I was in court,

and you weren't.

Manso:
People hired Roy

because Roy was
without conscience,

and Roy would get
them a victory

because he knew no rules.

He would do whatever
he needed to, to win.

Manso (on tape):
It has been mentioned

in the media that
you have represented,

or continue to represent,

-the world's richest men.
-Cohn: Okay.

Now, there's a prominent
New York real estate tycoon,

a very, very young man

who's, uh, who's made it.

I mean, he started off
with a few million dollars,

I suppose,
that his father had made.

Maybe 10 million,
20 million...

-Manso: Can we identify him?
-Cohn: Donald-- Donald Trump.

Manso:
I think that's
fairly transparent.

Everyone knows who it is.

Cohn:
Donald-- Donald Trump.

Manso:
Is it fair to say at this
point that he's the most

powerful real estate
guy in New York?

Cohn:
I think it is.

Romano:
His currency was money,

but he was a boy from Queens,

and he was a sheltered
boy from Queens.

He didn't have any
access to the big city.

So, at first, Roy brought
him into New York.

Cohn:
I met him at a supper club,

which I rarely go to.
I'm not too much
of a night man

because I have so much
work to do during the day,

and I guess the same
can be said of Donald.

He hates anything social,

and he really doesn't like
anything political
very much either.

One night, at Le Club,

we were seated at tables
next to each other.

He said,
"I've spent two days

"with these
establishment law firms

about a case we have."
It was a civil rights case.

He says,
"I followed your career,
and you seem--

"You're a little bit
crazy like I am, and

you stand up to
the establishment.
Can I come see you?"

Donald Trump: This was
a lawsuit against numerous
landlords in New York,

and I didn't like it
because it wasn't true.

We've never discriminated.
We don't believe in it.

And I just thought,
on a principal ground,

I should-- I should fight,
and other landlords didn't.

Manso:
Trump was delighted by
Roy's attorney's response

to this suit against
the two Trumps,

and that was to counter-sue
the US Justice Department.

Roy called them Nazis!

Roy called them
the Ku Klux Klan!

You know, but the whole
point was to resist,

to throw it back at them.

Trump fell in love with that.
Never admit that you're wrong.

And the suit was settled.

You serve a complaint,
start an action,

and then
there's a settlement...

Manso:
Roy settled

65-75% of all his cases
out of court.

He used his influence
with magazines,

newspapers,
and individual journalists

to get people to
settle lawsuits.

The fear of publicity can
be a very important factor

in inducing a settlement,

and we'd all be crazy

if we didn't acknowledge
that as a fact.

Cindy Adams:
Roy grew to understand
he could use me

when I joined the
"New York Post."

There were stories he was doing,

and it would have served him

if I would take care of
the people he didn't like.

Ivy Meeropol:
How did he pull that off?

By asking me.

-Oh.
-And I did it

because he was my friend,

so it's loyalty.

Cohn:
Look,

a good part of my life,

legally and extra-legally,

consists of having friends
in all walks of life.

For example, the way
I met Rupert Murdoch.

His, uh, when they wanted
a front-page interview

with Carmine Galante,
the Godfather.
-Manso: Mm-hmm.

Cohn:
I never heard
of a Godfather

giving a newspaper
interview before.

The metropolitan editor
of "The Post" called me
and he said,

"We really want
this interview,

"and the boss says
that he's read about you,

"and if you put your
mind to something,

you can get it done."

-Manso: Did you do it?
-Cohn: Yes.

(crowd chatter)

Romano:
He wanted to
make himself this

indispensable power broker,

sort of like
the original fixer.

(inaudible)

There was no clear boundary
between his personal life

and his professional life.
It all kind of overflowed.

The townhouse was
this combination of residence

and place of business.

Upstairs, there were
floors of offices.

Second and third floors
were his apartment.

And then, way up top,
was the roof deck.

He would sit up there,
with his shirt off,

and he would even
receive clients
while he was doing this.

I assumed that
this law firm

had been in existence
for many years,

but his name
was not on the masthead.

And my understanding is that

he had divested himself
of all his assets,

so that he could not be sued.

Everything was
owned by the firm.

Manso:
It's true that you personally
own nothing at all?

Cohn:
100% true.

Reason number one,
obviously,

is my dispute with
Internal Revenue.

So, I made up mind I was not
going to have bank accounts.

I carry cash.

I also have no credit cards.

Manso:
You live very, very well.

You have jets, limousines,

-yachts at your disposal.
-Cohn: Now, wait a minute.

I have very rich
friends and clients

who have confidence in me.

I can name you
10 right now

I could call up and say,
"Look, I hate to trouble you,

"but I'm having
a few problems.

"Would it be convenient
for you to loan me

a large amount of money?"

The answer
would be, instantly,

"Yes."

Morley Safer:
Roy Cohn manages
to spend, I guess,

a half a million dollars
a year as expenses,

without paying
a penny in tax on it.

When we talk expenses,
now that isn't so.

First of all, I have paid
an astronomical amount of taxes.

I, very frankly,
don't wanna earn

any more than I have to earn

because I don't like
the way this country

punishes the workers,
the middle class,

the blue collar people,
the white collar people.

I think it's lousy.

Manso:
Roy Cohn wanted to die
owing the IRS millions.

He never paid his bills.

Here we have a bill from a lease
for 1983 Porsche Cabriolet.

"This vehicle was
repossessed on 4/30/84

for reason of three
months delinquency."

In Roy's handwriting,
"Lillian," one of the women

who worked at
Saxe, Bacon, Bolan,

"Please try to close it
out with no payment."

The Four Seasons Clift Hotel
in San Francisco.

Roy's handwriting.
"Not necessary to pay."

Unpaid laundry bill of
$1,598.21.

The 21 Club,
10 and a half grand.

Sheridan Hotel,
1,100 bucks in Hawaii.

Ivy Meeropol:
Did any of these establishments
really go after him?

Oh yeah! There were
suits against him, sure.

But, you know, did they collect?

Adams:
Roy wanted to have some

Indonesian
and Ming artifacts.

I have a dealer here.

So, Joey said,
"Well, let's take Roy."

And I said,
"No, not good because Roy
doesn't pay his bills."

Roy wanted to go anyway,

and he went, and he
picked out three items.

It was about $70,000.

Six months went by,
he hadn't paid.

Finally, the dealer came
up to me and he says,

"Ay, your friend, he don't--
he don't pay nothin'."

And I said, "Not to worry."

I brought my car
down there,

and I went and knocked
on the door.

Elvira was his
longtime housekeeper,

and she knew me for years
and years and years.

And I said, "I came
to collect something."

She says, "Go ahead.
Take whatever you want."

So, I went in
with my driver,

and we took out
the three pieces of art,

put them in the car,
and brought them
back to the dealer.

That night,
he took me to dinner.

He never mentioned it.

He never brought it up ever.

As we walked out,
he said to the maitre d',

"The check is in the mail."

John Klotz:
I'd been very active in
judicial reform politics.

So, in 1979,

I decided that we needed
a task force on Roy Cohn.

A lot of people knew
that what Roy Cohn had

was enormous power
with the media.

And we were trying to create
a counterweight, essentially,

and also document what was
really going on with Roy Cohn.

Roy Cohn was
a hidden investor

in a series of businesses

that dealed with
all cash primarily.

Among them was parking lots.

Wayne Barrett:
His cash cow

was city-owned parking
lots by the water.

And he controlled the companies

that had the parking lots
that were city-owned,

and it was just
an enormous amount of money.

The guy who leased those
parking lots to him,
Rick Mazzeo,

wound up under
federal investigation,

and they found his body
in the trunk of a car,

and all he did was
give parking lots

to Roy Cohn.

That's what
he did for a living.

Roy Cohn was...

one of the most evil presences,

and I mean evil presences,

in our society during
most of my adult life.

He was not just
a lawyer for the mob.

He was an active participant.

Allen:
Occasionally,
there were times

where I'd be farmed out
to pick up something
or other.

One time, I went
to Philadelphia

to some federal penitentiary
to pick up parole papers

for whoever the Godfather was.

There were trips
over to New Jersey

for various client matters.

Manso:
It sounds almost like
you're a gangster now.

Is this what drew such,
you know, alleged,

lemme put it this way,
Godfathers?

Galante,

Genovese,

"Fat Tony" Salerno...

Cohn:
Let's eliminate
Tony Salerno right away.

Tony is a-- is a good guy.

-Tony is a gambler.
He's filed income taxes...
-Manso: Uh-huh.

Cohn:
...paid heavy income taxes
for over 40 years.

I like him better than
a lot of my other clients.

I know that I can
take his word.

Uh, I know he has guts.

I found him to be a warm,
decent human being

in his treatment
of other people,

particularly other
people who needed help.

What are the charges
against your client,

Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno?

Cohn:
This indictment says
that they

supervise gambling,
prostitution.

They talk about a cement
company and labor piece,

and that's really about all.

If there's substance to this,
I just don't see it.

Tony, you've read the charges
in this indictment.

Did you do any
of those things--

All false.

Klotz:
In 1981,

there was a strike
of cement workers.

No ready-mix
concrete project
in Manhattan

was allowed to receive
concrete by the union.

Only Trump Tower
got their ready-mix concrete.

Barrett:
Trump Tower,
when it was completed,

was the tallest
concrete structure,

all-concrete structure,
in the United States.

No steel in the building.

Donald made that choice
at a time when the mob

completely controlled the
concrete industry in New York.

Trump Tower and Trump Plaza,
his co-op project,

they were built by
Fat Tony Salerno's company.

Donald met in Roy Cohn's
office with Fat Tony Salerno,

during the very time period

that they were
in construction.

Klotz:
Through Cohn,
Trump received access

to the worst organized
crime figures

on the New York crime scene.

Protesters:
Close the FBI!
Open up the files!

(cars honking)

Close the FBI!
Open up the files!

Close the FBI!

Open up the files!

Close the FBI!
Open up the files...

Michael Meeropol:
After we were adopted,

we had extraordinarily
normal lives.

Went to high school,
went to college,

got married, had kids.

Very few people that we knew

knew that we were the sons of
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.

It wasn't until 1973,

Robby and I made a decision
to come out publicly

and reclaim our parents.

Reporter:
Michael and Robert Rosenberg,
aged 10 and 6,

paid a final visit to
their parents at Sing Sing.

Twenty-five years later,
they and their supporters

are still fighting to
clear the Rosenbergs' name,

still insisting their
parents were railroaded

in a climate of hysteria.

They have taken
the name of Meeropol

after the family
which adopted them.

Working through
the Freedom
of Information Act,

the Meeropols have compelled
the government to release

100,000 pages of
secret documents.

Among other things,
the papers suggest

the Rosenbergs might
have been granted
a last-minute reprieve

had they volunteered
to confess and testify

about their activities.

Michael Meeropol:
It's the era of Watergate.

It's the era of Nixon

being forced to resign.

This is a time to
launch a campaign.

FBI close down,
open up the files!

All:
FBI close down,
open up the files!

FBI close down...

(inaudible)

Michael Meeropol:
I remember my brother
in speeches saying

that by exposing
the frame up of Julius
and Ethel Rosenberg,

we were fighting
Watergate at its roots.

-And that's true.
-(applause)

We were actually sticking
it to the government,

and that felt good.

We felt confidence
in ourselves

that we could make the case.

I took a leave from my job.

Robby was only
working part-time.

We wrote our book together.

We went on speaking tours.

Basically,

from spring of 1974

through June of 1978,

I had three jobs.

I had my job to earn money,

my job to be
your and Greg's dad
and Mom's husband,

and the job
of public Rosenberg

fighting to reopen the case.

I'd like to see
a judicial judgment,

not just that my
parents were innocent,

but that individuals

conspired criminally
to convict them falsely.

I'd like to see
the perpetrators locked up.

This was the 1970s.

You know,
sex, drugs,
and rock and roll.

And I was relatively serious,

didn't do much
drugs by any means.

-(singing)
-I liked music.

My music experience
was sitting around
in the living room

with four people playing
guitars, singing songs,
you know.

All (singing):
♪ Guantanamera ♪

♪ Guantanamera... ♪

(groovy music playing)

(street noise)

(indistinct chatter)

-Tom Snyder:
Do you go there for fun?
-Cohn: Oh, sure.

Do we see Roy Cohn
on the dance floor?
Like, you know--

-Well, I'm not too good
on the dance floor,
-Neither am I.

but I like to go in there--
I like to go in there and watch.

If they go back
to Viennese waltzes,

I might-- I might
come back into style.

(club chatter)

Cohn:
You look to your left,
and you see a bunch of kooks.

You look to your right,

and you'll see movie stars,
ambassadors,

senators, congressmen,
and it's a kick.

It's just a thing
all of its own.

(club chatter)

Marcus:
Why was Roy Cohn
involved with Studio 54?

It was the hottest disco
in the world, and somehow,

Roy was the lawyer for
one of the partners,

and also sort of
the lawyer for Studio 54.

We cooperate fully
with the authorities.

But if you want a bond posted
that no one ever smoked a joint

in a discotheque in
the United States,

you're talking to the wrong guy.

Roy knew how to get
permits taken care of,

unions to do your bidding,

the mafia to leave you alone.

Manso:
Roy played godfather
to Rubell and Schrager,

and they rewarded
him appropriately.

They not only paid him well,

but Roy had a key to the joint.

Theodoracopulos:
Studio 54,
it was the first time

that a nightclub

operated on a completely
different level.

There was sex upstairs,
open sex,

mostly gay, and people
dancing downstairs,

and a hell of a lot of drugs.

And Roy was there a lot.

(inaudible)

Manso:
Roy had alliances.

I don't think Roy ever
had a relationship.

Roy was not interested
in a relationship.

For years, Roy pretended
to be straight.

To the extent of announcing
that he was engaged
to Barbara Walters.

We're getting married
when we're both 60.

(laughs)

Lane:
Roy would call
Cindy Adams and say,

"Would you, you know,
put an item in your column?

Barbara Walters
and I may get married."

Adams:
I knew the boyfriends.

I can't remember
who they were now,

but they were all
nice-looking and young.

(laughs)

You know?
Should happen to me.

Absolutely. (laughs)

It was fine.

Yes, of course I knew.

We all knew.

(film scratching)

Homosexuality is an enigma.

Even in this era of
bold sexual mores,

it remains a subject
that people find disturbing.

Embarrassing.

Most Americans
are repelled by

the mere notion
of homosexuality.

The homosexual,
bitterly aware
of his rejection,

responds
by going underground.

In the '70s, I was working--

Well, hooking,
at a bar called Rounds.

I was picked up by this guy that
I thought was very attractive.

So I was like, this is great

'cause I'm gonna get paid
plus he's really cute.

They wanted me
to meet somebody.

And they drove me deep
in the woods somewhere.

It was very secretive.
It was very covert
operation-like.

(crackling)

Sitting on the sofa was Roy

in this black velour robe.

He was very tanned,

and very, uh, you know,

kinda lizard-like, you know?

But-- but like an old auntie.

Like that had just come home
from bingo and was cold.

He asked me to sit down
on the sofa next to him.

He made me a cocktail.

I think I asked
for a screwdriver.

I saw an album

of Mabel Mercer
and Bobby Short,

and I was a fan of this album.

-("When In Rome" playing)
-So, we started
talking about that,

and he was really surprised
that I knew who
Mabel Mercer was.

After a very long talk,

I went upstairs

and had sex with this guy that
I guess was his boyfriend.

I don't know what was happening.

And then,
a couple weeks later,

it happened all over again
where they brought me to him,

but at that point, I thought
we were "friends," you know?

♪ I can't explain ♪

♪ Please ignore
my fondness for... ♪

I said,
"What exactly did you...

"do you-- did you
want me to come here for?

Was I supposed to
have sex with you?"

(song stops)

That's when it turned...

in a-- in a very strange way.

And he got angry with me.

Didn't raise his
voice so much as

his eyes and the tone
of voice was strange,

and he said, "I asked you
here to discuss music."

He was done with me
at that point.

It's sort of like,
you know,

Blanche DuBois, you know?

"I don't want reality!
I want dreams."

Lane:
He came from a certain
generation

where you obviously
couldn't be openly gay,

and work in the world
that he was working in.

Allen:
I remember that there was
an assistant named Vincent.

He was a young, good-looking guy
who kind of passed in and out,

and gradually,
it dawned on me that

there's probably some kind
of personal relationship

between him and Cohn.

Cohn:
Did you remember I had a lunch
date with Barbara Walters?

-When is that?
-Cohn: Today.

Kushner:
He knew how to be a gay man
who was in the closet.

But, he'll play
games with it also.

He was flaunting it
in a certain sense,

and sort of daring people
to see how much room

there was to do
whatever you wanted.

(birds cawing)

Cohn:
I'm basically an introvert.

I'm basically
a private person.

When I'm with my friends,

under circumstances
of privacy,

that's what I really love.

I think what makes
my adrenaline go

more than anything else
is this combination.

I can't have one without--

-Manso: The public
and private.
-Cohn: Right.

Manso:
Many people were shocked

that Roy Cohn
appeared in Provincetown,

which is probably
the world's leading
summertime gay community.

He was summering
in Provincetown,

quite out in the open,
quite conspicuously.

(indistinct chatter)

Roy loved the craziness
of Provincetown.

He loved the drinking,
he loved the games,

the social crap that
went on downtown.

(cheering)

John Waters:
When I saw him, I was
appalled that he was here.

The only place I ever
saw him in person

that I remember was in
Front Street, repeatedly.

It was a jumpin' scene.

I mean, it was definitely
the place to be
in Provincetown.

And he was always in
there with hustlers,

and it infuriated me.

(indistinct chatter,
glasses clinking)

All these boys
around the table.

They were ordering champagne
and fancy food and, you know.

It didn't seem like
they were discussing

the history of Communism.

I would've been
a Communist then.

Just meant a liberal, really.

(laughs) You know, I was worse.

I was a young--

just lunatic
myself, really,

so I never spoke to him.

And complained
that he was in there

to the people that owned it,
who was my dear friend

Howard Gruber,
who was Jewish!

He said, "Well, I just
always spit in his food

every time when I serve it."

I would've done more than spit.

Noreen Bahring:
He'd stop into
Front Street

to make a reservation
for a 25-person seating.

He was a true perfectionist.

Before any of
the guests arrived,

he had to see it set up.

He would bring in
these candy dishes,

and he would fill
them with cocaine.

A substantial amount of cocaine.

He would then
place these Tuinals

to the right
of every setting.

It's a sedative,

so if they got
too crazy on the cocaine,

they would have a Tuinal
to level themselves out.

Waters:
It was a coke pit.

It was during
the cocaine years.

And I did cocaine
in the bathroom there.

Everybody did.

Did I ever do coke with him?
I wouldn't have!

I wouldn't have had my nostril

on the same straw as that pig!

He came here for easy sex

and handsome men

and probably easy
access to drugs.

And no paparazzi.

And maybe the fact that
people didn't know who he was.

(birds cawing)

(sighs)

(clinking)

This is Roy's cottage
that he rented there.

It's fixed up
somewhat now.

And this is my house.

So you can see,
we were very connected.

A neighbor up the street came
to me that he had a renter.

I had never rented before.
I said, great.

And he didn't
tell me who it was.

He said, "But don't
worry about it."

So, lo and behold,

Roy Cohn moves in.

I didn't know
that much about Roy,

but I knew enough.

The neighbors right away

knew much more than I did.

"How could you have
done that to us?

"How could you
have made that man

live across the street
from me?" And so on.

But, the rent was paid,
the house was clean,

and he was a good tenant.

And he had lots
and lots of guests

all the time.

Tall, blonde, blue-eyed,
built like...

(grunt) yummy.

I never saw him alone,

except for when
he went swimming.

That's an interesting thought.

Never alone.

Always at least
two or three people,

if not more... hovering.

How important is it to
spend time with yourself?

I rented to him
a second year,

and he then came to me
and said he wanted to buy it.

I said, "Well,
it's not for sale."

And he looked at me

with these very cold eyes.

Said, "Things have
a way of being sold

that aren't for sale, Anne."

I just shivered.

(birds cawing)

Fortunately, he bought
the place two houses from me.

Manso:
Norman Mailer and I were
buying a house together.

Roy jumps into that project,

and snags for himself

the cottage that's
on the property.

I can recall one Sunday
on his big deck.

Roy is surrounded
by newspapers.

You know, the "LA Times,"
the "New York Times,"
London papers.

Norman Mailer had
recently gotten back
from Russia,

where he did a piece
for "Parade Magazine,"

praising Russia to the skies.

He loved Russian food.

"The borscht, oh!
You've never had borscht

"like you can get in Moscow.

"Russian women!

Nothing like it!"

Roy was looking
at Norman's piece,

and Roy looks up and he says,
"Have you read this?

"You know,
your friend Mailer

"you know,
is so fucking in love
with the Russians,

"he'll really be happy
when, you know,

"the Ruskies
drop a nuke on him.

That'll bring him
to his senses maybe!"

(TV static)

(classical music playing)

Guilty or innocent?

The question lingers
after 30 years,

and still divides many
people here and abroad.

I would like to introduce
briefly our guests tonight.

To my left, Marshall Perlin,

a lawyer involved with the case.

To my left,
Professor Michael Meeropol,

one of the sons of
Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

And to my right,
attorney Roy Cohn.

Michael Meeropol:
When Robby and I got
a lot of publicity,

we discover that
Roy Cohn has taken on

the mantle of defending
the government.

Why was clemency not granted?

What was standing in the way?

Well, it is justified
in the case of two people

who stole secrets
involving a bomb

which could take thousands
and thousands of human lives,

and turning it over to an enemy,

which has blacked out
a good part of the world,

and taken many human lives.

What could be worse than

-selling out your own country?
-Host: Mr. Meeropol?

Yes. The first thing that
people have to realize is,

of course, that the man
who's saying all this

was part of a prosecution team

that engaged in
subornation of perjury

and a conspiracy
to deprive civil rights

by false prosecution.

Now, he's not gonna
stand on television
in the United States

and confess to doing that.

He hasn't been in the habit

of confessing crimes
in his entire career,

and I don't expect
he's gonna start now.

Fact remains
that ever since 1953,

we have uncovered
perjuries on the part of
prosecution witnesses.

We have uncovered forgeries.

We've uncovered
factual material--

Now, you're accusing
me of corruption--

-No, no, no, no...
-That's a strong thing to say.

Now, let me make
a very interesting comment

that your viewers
may be interested in.

We have a way of reopening
the case right now.

If I just told a lie

about Mr. Cohn's
criminal conduct,

-I've committed libel.
-Host: We don't--

-We've got a perfect chance
to have a courtroom.
-Host: Again--

Again, we don't want to
get into this right here.

Michael Meeropol:
He knows what he did.
He doesn't wanna do it.

Host:
I would like to hear more
about the motivation...

Michael Meeropol:
Of course,
he did know what he did.

The point is he didn't care.

If it wasn't for me, Joe,

Ethel Rosenberg
would be alive today.

I would've fucking
pulled the switch
if they'd have let me.

Why? Because I
fucking hate traitors.

Because I fucking
hate Communists!

Was it legal? Fuck legal.

Am I a nice man?

Fuck nice!

They say terrible things
about me in "The Nation."

Fuck "The Nation"!

You wanna be nice?!

Or you wanna be effective?!

Make the law,
or subject to it! Choose!

The Rosenbergs
convicted themselves

by taking the witness stand

and lying through their teeth.

There were a number
of other people,

recruited by the Rosenbergs,

working with the Rosenbergs,
who escaped.

I welcome a full inquiry.

I urge you to use
the power of subpoena,

get secret documents,
talk to witnesses,

put people like
Mr. Cohn under oath,

and keep at him

about things that were
developed, prosecution,

changes, etc., etc.

I feel the people
who framed my parents

trampled the American
flag in the mud,

and I think it's up
to us to wash it.

I could look him in the eye

and I could point
at him and say,

"You knew what you did."

And I kept saying,

"Come on!
If I'm lying, sue me!"

And he just brushed it off.

Manso:
"Who elected Ronald Reagan?

"It was union members,
defying their leaders.

"It was the blue collar worker,
the truck driver.

"Because they're the ones who
are getting hit by our economy.

It's the middle class
that's been going under."

You know what?

That is the subtext to
the election of Donald Trump.

Hmm.

And this was what? 1981.

Mike Wallace:
You have claimed
to have been a fan

-of Ronald Reagan,
supporter of Reagan.
-Cohn: I haven't claimed.

-I have been.
-Wallace: Alright, wonderful.

For many years.
Way before,

-way before a national--
-Cohn: No, I can tell
you exactly when.

When he made the speech for
Barry Goldwater in 1964.

Ronald Reagan came
across as a giant.

Ronald Reagan:
We're at war with
the most dangerous enemy

that has ever faced
mankind in his long climb

from the swamp to the stars.

And it's been said
if we lose that war,

and in so doing
lose this way of
freedom of ours,

history will record with
the greatest astonishment

that those who had
the most to lose

did the least to
prevent its happening.

(applause)

Crowd:
We want Reagan! We want Reagan!

We want Reagan!

We want Reagan!
We want Reagan!

(chanting, cheering continues)

Marcus:
Many people did not expect
a governor from California,

who was not
sophisticated about
international relations,

to be elected.

(patriotic music playing)

Roy predicted that
he would be elected
well before he was.

(crowd cheering)

Roy ushered in that
Republican revolution.

(upbeat music playing)

(crowd cheering)

Cohn:
Since the time
Governor Reagan

in New York made
his announcement

until the election,

I don't know where
I got the time from

because my partner,
Tom Bolan, was--

had the main role
as finance director

for Governor Reagan
in New York,

but I had to do an awful lot

and through
all hours of the night.

Marcus:
Roger Stone was a young
campaign person

who was
working in New York,

and he met Roy because

Roy hosted him at parties,

actually introduced
him to Donald Trump.

And Roger Stone
got a lot of money,

so that when
Reagan was elected,

Roger Stone and Ed Meese
and people around him

felt that they owed a lot to Roy

for making connections
and getting him money.

Ronald Reagan also helped
his fellow Republicans

make a major change in
the philosophy of Congress.

It has become much
more conservative

in the Senate and in the House.

John LeBoutillier:
1980, it was a big
Republican year.

And I got elected
to Congress

as the youngest
member of Congress.

I just turned 27 during
the campaign, so I was...

young.

And within a week or two
after I got elected,

I get a phone call
and a letter

asking a favor

from this law firm
that was Tom Bolan

and his law partner,
Roy Cohn.

They wanted their friends

to get jobs from
the Reagan White House.

They asked me to
support a candidate

for a federal judgeship.

And along the way, they asked
me to write this letter,

and they keep pushing it,
which I ended up writing.

It might've been
the first letter of
recommendation I wrote,

and it was for Maryanne Trump,

Donald Trump's older sister,

to be a federal judge.

I've never been asked to
do such a thing in my life!

A year earlier, I'm in school!

And in the new
administration,
the next year,

President Reagan did appoint
her to the federal bench.

Right from the get-go,
they were very influential

with the President
of the United States.

I became very involved
in the issue of American
prisoners of war

that were left behind
during the Vietnam War.

I am now on the
Foreign Affairs Committee
in the House,

and I have a Laotian pilot

that I'm hiring
to go back to Laos

to look around
for information.

But we needed to accelerate
his citizenship,

so I asked Roy Cohn.

And to this day,

it is the single most
impressive use of power

that I've seen in my life.

He said,
"I've got it all set.

"Here's what you're gonna do.

"You're gonna go
to Los Angeles.

"You're gonna go to
the federal courthouse.

"You're gonna go
to some courtroom,

"and there is
a Judge Roy Carstairs

"will be running
a federal trial.

"And you will wait in the back
of the courtroom, standing.

"Judge Carstairs
will see you there,

"he will call a recess
of the trial,

"and he will swear
your Laotian in

as an American citizen
right on the spot."

That is how (chuckles)
to wield power.

Dershowitz:
Before I met him,
I knew him as a fixer.

A guy who got things done.

It wasn't what you knew.
It was who you knew.

(crowd chatter)

The only occasion I ever
had to work with him

was during
the Claus Von Bulow case.

I was handling
the criminal aspect of it.

He was handling the estate.

I was, I wouldn't
say charmed by him,

but I was pleasantly
surprised by the fact

that he wasn't the ogre
that I had been told he was.

And he was determined to
make me like him some how.

He emphasized that
he really admired me

because of my
support for Israel,

my support for Jewish values.

He tried to persuade me

that he grew up at a time

when Communism was
associated with being Jewish.

Not only the Rosenbergs.

Klaus Fuchs and, you know,
so many of the other people

who were alleged
to be spies were Jews,

and so many of the leaders
of Communist parties
were Jews.

And he thought it
was terrible

that Jews were being
associated with Communism.

And he made a decision to
stand up against Communism

as a visible Jew,
with a name like Cohn,

that can be seen
around the world

as Jews standing up
against Communism.

And he went into
great detail with me

about the Rosenberg case.

And the story he told is
that they knew for certain

that Julius Rosenberg
was a spy

because they had wiretaps
from some embassy

that they couldn't disclose

'cause they're not supposed
to be taping embassies,

but they were 100% confident.

But they couldn't
use the evidence.

And so, they "enhanced"
the evidence.

They "improved" the evidence.

And he thought it was
a morally just thing to do.

Bob Simon:
The star witness
for the prosecution

was David Greenglass.

He now says this man
made him do it.

And did Cohn encourage
you to testify that you...

saw Ethel typing up the notes?

Of course he did.

Did you realize at the time

or when you were testifying,
the importance of this...

the evidence you were providing?

I had no idea it was
important at all.

Dershowitz:
He also said that he did have

many ex-party conversations
with Judge Irving Kaufman,

that they talked
on the phone.

They had agreements
about how to handle
certain pieces of evidence.

He never denied

that the case was fixed.

He used the term,
"We framed guilty people.

"We framed guilty people.

"We tampered
with the evidence

"in order to persuade

"the judge and the jury

that these guilty people
were, in fact, guilty."

Michael Meeropol:
In 1995, the CIA released
the Venona transcription

that attempted to prove that
the government was right

that Julius Rosenberg,
my father, was a spy.

Well, the media's reaction
was,

"The Rosenbergs are guilty."

We were skeptical of it.
But, of course,

I had to contemplate
what would it mean
if it were true.

If we agreed
that this stuff was real,

half of our case was
already made for us.

It was clear that
your grandmother
was not a spy.

She never got a codename!

Dershowitz:
If the whole truth
had come out,

we would have known at the time

that Julius was guilty of being
a spy for the Soviet Union,

but that the information
he provided them

was not nearly as
important or critical

as the way the government
made it sound.

He was not the man
who "gave" the atomic bomb

to the Soviet Union.

The other thing
we would know for sure

is that Ethel Rosenberg
was not guilty

of the crime for
which she was charged.

But there was a plot afoot.

And the plot was,

from the highest
levels of government,

to frame Ethel Rosenberg

in order to get Julius
to wanna save her life

by ratting out the people
who he was in contact with.

I don't think we've ever had
a miscarriage of justice

that parallels the Rosenberg
case in my lifetime.

Ivy Meeropol:
You told me before
why you never wanted

-to go to the grave.
-Michael Meeropol: Yeah,
'cause I didn't wanna

put myself
through the anguish

of actually seeing the grave.

(inaudible)

Most of the reopening effort
was highly intellectual.

It involved arguing,
articulating...

In the case of my parents...

But there is a very,
very personal side to this.

Remember, the family
was broken up
for a good two years.

The period of time
when we visited them
was so amazing.

Hugging them
and kissing them.

We played, we sang.

There was no pain
because it was always,

"We've still got hope,
and, you know,
see you next time."

The reason the last
visit was so terrible

was that there
was no next time.

I was wailing,
"One more day to live,
one more day to live."

Then they kissed us
and left.

(rumbling)

The last place I saw your
grandparents was Sing Sing.

Going to Sing Sing
is a way of connecting
to that 10-year-old.

Memory is important.

Reminding myself
of it is important.

There were times
in my teen years,

and in my 20s where...

the press of
everyday life would,

would sort of, take charge,
but I always...

I always reminded myself
where I came from.

Dershowitz:
Roy Cohn represents
a type of person

who recurs throughout history.

Uh, we know
"the" Roy Cohn,

but every era has a Roy Cohn,
an opportunist,

somebody who will
stretch the law and ethics

to make the ends
justify the means.

Cohn:
This picture of Donald
and me hangs in my office.

He says, "Roy is
my greatest friend."

(car starts)

The man is, as I say,

the closest thing to a genius
I've ever met in my life.

When he sees an opportunity,

he's always there
to take it.

And I have a feeling
someday,

not too far distant future,

you're gonna see Donald Trump

in other parts of
the country as well.

Romano:
In the early '80s,

I was living in Washington,

and I had just joined
"The Washington Post."

After 30 years,
the Republicans were hot again.

And so, all of us,
as young reporters,

were pursuing all the new,
young operatives.

Among them was Roger Stone
and Paul Manafort.

And somewhere in there,
Roger Stone,

who I had cultivated
as a source,

said, "You need to meet
my friend, Roy Cohn."

Roy was very magnetic,

and he knew how to
cultivate the media.

I mean, I used
to see him at parties,

and, you know, he'd be in town.

He'd always stay
at the Madison,

which is across from
"The Post."

And he'd say,
"I'm over here at the bar.

Come on over
and have a drink."

And he would say, "I've
got a good story for you,"

but it always served
his purposes, too.

Which is how I came to do
a profile on Donald Trump.

Throughout the whole
two hours I'm with him,

all Trump says is, "Either
you got it or you don't,"

about everything.

"Either you can get a table
at a restaurant or you can't.

Either you can do this
or you can't."

So, during the course
of this, he says,

"I could be the nuclear
arms negotiator."

He said, "I could know
everything there is to know

about missiles
and nuclear arms
in an hour and a half."

And he said, "You know,
Roy really wants me
to do this.

Roy thinks that I
would be a really good
nuclear arms negotiator."

And during this period,
he apparently sends word back

to one of George Bush's
operatives

that he could be working
in the administration.

So, he was starting to feel
pretty heady about himself

and what he could be
doing in government.

Male Interviewer:
Would you like
to be in a position

of negotiating disarmament?

Is that really
what's in your head?

I don't know who's negotiating
for us, who had in the past.

I used to watch,
under Jimmy Carter's regime,

I used to watch
people going over

and looking at these Russians.

And I could look
at the Russians,

and I could look at
these people on our side,

and I could say
there's no chance.

That's like the
Pittsburgh Steelers

playing my high school
football team.

Female Interviewer:
Is it arrogant
of Donald Trump

to even think about
negotiating a treaty
with the Russians?

It's not arrogance.

It's the fact that he sees

he has a talent
in a certain area.

Look, his next stop might
very well be Moscow.

(indistinct chatter)

Romano:
I think what Roy Cohn
saw in Donald Trump

was sort of an
unpolished stone.

He had some smarts,
he had ambition,
and he had money.

And he had nerve.
He wanted to shake things up.

Roy is building this foothold
in Washington, DC,

and Don wants a piece of this

and Roy wants him to
have a piece of it.

(indistinct chatter)

(inaudible)

Manso:
There's this
wonderful photograph

of Roy and his...

arm candy lover,
Peter Fraser,

at the White House
on a receiving line.

And there's Nancy
and there's Ron.

He's introducing his
beautiful for-hire boyfriend,

and both he
and his lover, Peter,

are being received like royalty.

Like they're very
important people.

In the early
through mid '80s,

Peter Fraser was
Roy's squeeze of choice.

Peter Fraser
was tall, blonde,

athletic-looking
New Zealander.

Roy got him made
the Aramis Man of the Year.

Aramis is the men's division

of Estée Lauder Cosmetics!

Estée and Joe Lauder
were Roy's 20-, 30-year-old,

right-wing, multi-millionaire
friends and clients.

Peter Fraser was
the kept partner,

and actually served
a function in the Roy orbit.

Here is a letter
dated February 1, '85,

on Saxe, Bacon, Bolan
letterhead.

"To Whom It May Concern,

"This is to confirm that
Peter Fraser's employed

"by the law firm
Saxe, Bacon, Bolan,

"and he resides at
the company house

"in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

Yours truly, Roy M. Cohn."

Wild.

"Pay to the order
of Peter Fraser."

$5,284.

See now, here are
credit card receipts

in Peter Fraser's name.

Now, Roy could not
use credit cards.

You know, 'cause any purchase
would be trackable,

and subject to, you know,
IRS scrutiny.

Who was this? Oh my God,
this is more transfers.

Holy shit.

Bank of New Zealand for
$10,012.50.

On the same day,

there is another
transfer of $10,000.

Jesus Christ.

Deposits, $43,000,

$50,000, $90,000, $45,000,

$50,000.

You know, this is
money laundering.

You know,
Roy is using Peter as a cut-out.

You know what a cut-out
is in spy language?

You're on one side of the fence,
I'm on the other.

But, I have this guy over here,

and he gets everything I have,

even though you're
focusing on me.

I mean, I don't
know what these...

you know,
90 and $100,000 balances

in his accounts represent.

Where is that money coming from?

It's coming through Roy,

but where is that coming from?

Reporter:
Two years ago,
Richard Dupont had this idea.

He would open a health club
in the West Village for gays.

He took over an abandoned
six-story warehouse

on Greenwich Street
near Barrow,

and spent the next year

and almost $1 million
renovating it.

What I think most
people are afraid of

is the very fact
is they may see

homosexual people
as real people.

As people who aren't
deviants and perverts.

Klotz:
Richard Dupont originally
met Roy in Miami Beach,

where he turned a trick for
Roy as a gay prostitute.

Manso:
Richard Dupont
was a grifter,

a guy who lived on his wits.

And such people could be
useful to Roy Cohn.

(Ray Kiley speaking):

(Dupont speaking):

Manso:
And the guy decided
to wreck revenge,

and he got to Roy like
no one else got to Roy ever.

Klotz:
He would call
the airline and say,

"This is Roy Cohn calling and...

you know my reservation for
2:00 to Texas? Cancel it."

So, Roy Cohn would show up
at the airport with his bags,

and his reservation
had been canceled. (laughs)

At the Ford
shareholders meeting,

a woman came
with a delivery of
flowers for him,

and the flowers were wilted.

There was a note with
the flowers saying,

"Roy Cohn can lick anyone."

I believe that was
a double entendre.

Manso:
One morning,
where Roy's office was

on East 68th Street,
for the whole block,

every five feet,

(laughing)
there was a stenciled
message.

"Roy Cohn is a fag."

Roy was going crazy.

I mean, this is the devil
visiting the devil, as it were.

(phone dialing)

(Cohn and Dupont on phone):

(hangs up)

I'm surprised he
didn't have him killed,

but maybe it would've
been too obvious.

He couldn't scare him off.

And Dupont just kept going.

(disco music playing)

(crowd chatter)

Klotz:
In 1980, on Gay Pride Day,

there was a publication
of a magazine
called "Now East,"

which contained
all of Dupont's fantasies
about Roy Cohn.

Manso (on phone):
It's obvious that you
are out to do in Roy.

-Do you think that
you'll outlast Roy?
-Dupont (on phone): Oh God.

Oh God, the second issue.

-Manso: The second issue is
gonna do him in, you think?
-Dupont: And the third issue.

Manso:
And the third issue?

There's a third one
coming, too?

Dupont:
Yes, there'll be every issue.

Manso:
I mean, how long is this
magazine gonna go on?

I mean, people eventually may
become bored with Roy Cohn.

Dupont: I don't know
whether they'll become
bored with Roy Cohn or not.

I really don't know, Peter.

Manso:
These were distributed.

They were left
in restaurants,

fancy clothing stores,

gay bars.

Roy was genuinely agitated,

and Roy didn't show
anxiety easily.

"I'm gonna get
that motherfucker.
I'm gonna kill him.

I'm gonna put him away.
This is gonna end."

Tonight, we have a story
about a man

who is not charged
with a violent crime,

but he is the object
of a lot of attention

from the Manhattan
district attorney.

John Miller:
This is Richard Dupont.

He was arrested in,
what his lawyer described
as, a pre-dawn raid

in which four detectives
came crashing into
his apartment.

I received information
from my client

that he had learned

from associates of Mr. Cohn

that he was to be
indicted on Friday.

Klotz:
"Were we here because
of 'Now East'? Baloney.

"We're here because
Richard had the temerity

to ignore that warning
and mess with Roy Cohn."

(Dupont speaking):

Klotz:
He was acquitted
the first two counts,

but he was convicted of
four or five misdemeanors.

Misdemeanor clients
don't go to penitentiaries.

And I felt at the time,

given who he was dealing with,

uh, the, uh...

virtual member of
organized crime,

or the attorney Roy Cohn,

that Richard wouldn't have
lasted in a penitentiary.

And Richard Dupont,
as I recall,

served 18 months
in state prison.

For fuckin' with Roy Cohn!

Don't mess with Roy Cohn!
Moral of the story!

-(whistle blowing)
-(crowd chatter)

(clapping)

(crowd chanting)

Ethan Geto:
In the '80s, you could be
fired as a schoolteacher

if you were known
to be gay.

You could be denied
an apartment.

That happened constantly

in a liberal bastion
like New York City.

You could be denied service

in a restaurant or a bar!

You had no recourse.

-(protesters chanting)
-For 15 years,

the Gay Rights Bill
came up for a vote
and it was voted down.

Cohn:
My greatest concern in life

is not about
open restaurants

or this Gay Rights Bill.

I think if you're
a man about things

and you can fight
your own fights,

things come out okay
in the long run.

Geto:
Roy Cohn was very involved

with politics
in New York City.

He was a lobbyist
and spokesperson

for the Archdiocese of New York,

which, in those years,

was very, very
powerful politically

because the Cardinal
of New York

had enormous control
and veto power

over legislation
in the City Council.

Roy Cohn started
making public comments.

...cannot be done, and the proof
is not in what we say,

but in the city...

First of all, I don't like
any of these rights bills.

Women's rights bill,

such as was defeated
in New York, very properly.

I don't like that.

If the Gay Rights Bill
goes to a referendum,

I think the people
will defeat that, too.

I think there are
features of that bill

that constitutes a clear
and present danger

to the upbringing of
children and to family life,

and I don't think it's
a cut-and-dried issue at all.

Geto:
Taking a very public,
hostile stance to gay people

made everybody
who wasn't in the know feel,

"Of course, there's a rumor

that Roy Cohn is a homosexual,
but that's ridiculous!"

The other thing was
the Catholic Church,

and they had
a similar problem.

Cardinal Spellman
was thought,

by many people,
to be gay.

He was a very close social
friend of Roy Cohn's,

and he was very,
very reactionary.

That's the environment
that Roy Cohn reinforced

and pushed
and supported in a way

that oppressed
millions of people.

To know that this man

was actively gay
in his personal life

and his social life
and his sex life and so on.

Again, I say
the ninth circle of Hell

is reserved for hypocrites.

You feel pretty good.

-I feel great.
-Why?

I mean, you were at death's door

six months ago,
three months ago.

I was shaving one morning,
and I had a...

I felt a little bump.

So I called the doctor,
he said come in.

And they did a biopsy,
and they found
I had liver cancer,

uh, and they found that--
which spreads in...

strange directions,

and I was treated for
three and a half weeks

at the National
Institute of Health.

Marcus:
He told me he was in
an experimental program

for liver cancer.

I think they did
not actually have

an experimental program
for liver cancer.

It was trying AZT
and other drugs for AIDS.

Health officials will announce
today whether an anti-AIDS drug

is safe enough for widespread
use against the disease.

The drug AZT has been
tested for more than a year

on 140 AIDS patients
around the country.

While AZT does not
cure the disease,

it does reduce some
of its symptoms.

Did you get that radical
treatment at NIH

-that that Dr. Rosenberg,
I believe, is now doing?
-Cohn: No.

-You did not undergo that?
-No. I did not undergo that.

-You scored!
-Impressively.

There may be 30 people
in the whole country
getting this drug?

Now, there are 31.

There are 100,000
people who need it.

-(birds cawing)
-(water lapping)

Packard:
He spent a lot of time
here when he had AIDS.

That's when I would
see his poor,

diminished body

'cause I lost a lot
of friends, too.

(inaudible)

Waters:
The town was
so struck by AIDS.

I mean, three-quarters
of my friends died.

He was one of-- the whole
town was dying, basically.

Packard:
I wonder what Roy thought

about the fact
that he got AIDS.

And those that escaped it,
and those that didn't,

but not Roy Cohn.

He shouldn't have gotten AIDS.

Right?

I felt sorry for him.

Doesn't mean I liked him
or approved what he did,

but I felt sorry for him
as an individual.

He didn't hide in that corner.
It was right over there.

But-- but he didn't
want to be... out there,

and-- and he wanted to show
the poor kid he was with

that he did have a life here.

And he certainly couldn't
take him dancing

'cause he was at the point
where he couldn't walk,

never mind dance.

He was gay and he was sick.

And he's got this child with him
that he's infecting.

You know, this really is sick.

I was looking
at a broken man,

and he was everything
he didn't wanna be.

-Wallace: Do you have AIDS?
-Oh, no.

That's easy to answer.

I'm goin', Ethel.

Finally, finally
done with this world

at long, long last.

The Almighty parts
the sea of death,

and lets his Roy boy
cross over to Jordan!

On dry land,

and still a lawyer.

Don't count your chickens, Roy.

-It's over.
-(gasps)

-Over?
-I wanted the news
should come from me.

The panel ruled
against ya, Roy.

No, no, they only started
meeting two days ago...

They recommended disbarment!

Why do you think
they're after you?

There are disbarment
proceedings.

We're talking about two cases,

in neither one of which
anyone was injured

even slightly, except me.

Wallace:
He borrowed $100,000
from a client,

Iva Schlesinger, and then,

despite his numerous
written promises,

he failed to repay
her that $100,000.

(Cohn speaking):

-Romano: Mm-hmm.
-(Cohn continues)

-Cohn: Pardon me?
-(Romano continues)

Anyone who knows me
knows I don't plead.

And I'm not pleading
in this case.

Lane:
He's fighting for his life,

and, on some level, more
importantly, his reputation.

He probably cried more
over the disbarment

than the AIDS diagnosis.

That's how important
it was to him.

In this last interview,
I show up in Florida,

and I was actually taken aback

because I hadn't seen him
in about a year,

and he was extremely frail.

He had lost a lot of weight,
he had to be helped
into a chair,

his clothes were baggy,
but he was game.

He wanted to get stuff
off of his chest,

and we talked
for an hour or so

in this mansion that was--

I don't even remember
whose it was,

but it was this beautiful
mansion on Worth Avenue.

And then we went
out to dinner.

And, um, and I asked him,

I said, "You know,
what do you think about now?

What do you dream about?"
And he said,

"You know, I dream about death,

and I think about my funeral."

(Romano speaking on tape):

(Cohn speaking on tape):

(applause)

Crowd:
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

(singing continues,
indistinct chatter)

Woman:
You have to make
a very special wish.

Ivy Meeropol:
Did he feel that people
were abandoning him?

I'm not sure that
he would ever show

that side of him.

But there are some of us
who don't abandon friends,

no matter what.

Romano:
Donald was plugged in.

And I'm sure he had
heard that Roy had AIDS.

And when he's dying,
Trump pulls away,

and-- and it hurt Roy.

He felt like he had done
a lot to promote,

to help bring
Donald Trump along.

Ladies and gentlemen,
please join me in a salute
to a winner,

and a friend,
Mr. Donald Trump.

(applause)

Trump:
Thank you.

I would like to just
introduce quickly my family.

My wife, Ivana,
my father, Fred,

my sister, the judge,
thanks to the President.

(laughter)

LeBoutillier:
It was a wrenching
thing to watch.

But a lot of Roy's
so-called friends

blew him off after he got sick.

Brit Hume:
Roy Cohn, the unorthodox
and colorful lawyer

who may have made
more prominent enemies

and more prominent friends
than any American of his time,

is dead.

Cohn died early this morning
of a heart attack.

The virus HTLV-3, which
is believed to cause AIDS,

was listed as a secondary
cause of death.

(water flowing)

Romano:
How do you wanna
be remembered?

Cohn:
I have no choice

because I know I am
gonna be Joe McCarthy's

Chief Counsel
for the rest of my life,

no matter what else good
or bad I should ever do.

(somber music playing)

Romano:
If you could turn back
the clock to 1953 or four,

-would you do
anything differently?
-Cohn: Sure.

Who, 25 or 30 years later,

wouldn't do
something different?

Romano:
What? Do you think
you were too abrasive

-as some people say?
-Cohn: Sure.

But, I'm not sure if
I hadn't been too aggressive

if I could've
gotten any results.

Romano:
What do you say
to people who say

you ruined people's lives?

Cohn:
I say name one.

Because I know what
the truth is and they don't.

(typewriter clicking)

(ding)

("Exhuming McCarthy"
by R.E.M. playing)

♪ You're beautiful ♪

♪ More beautiful than me ♪

♪ You're honorable,
more honorable ♪

♪ Than me ♪

♪ Loyal to
the Bank of America ♪

♪ It's a sign of the times ♪

♪ It's a sign of the times ♪

♪ You're sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Vested interest
united ties ♪

♪ Landed gentry rationalize ♪

♪ Look who bought the myth ♪

♪ By jingo, buy America ♪

♪ It's a sign of the times ♪

♪ It's a sign of the times ♪

♪ You're sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Enemy sighted ♪

♪ Enemy met ♪

♪ I'm addressing
the realpolitik ♪

♪ Look who bought the myth ♪

♪ By jingo, buy America ♪

Welch:
Let us not assassinate
this lad further, Senator.

You've done enough.

Have you no sense
of decency, sir,

at long last?

Have you left
no sense of decency?

♪ You're sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Sharpening stones ♪

♪ Walking on coals ♪

♪ To improve your
business acumen ♪

♪ Enemy sighted ♪

♪ Enemy met ♪

♪ I'm addressing
the realpolitik ♪

♪ You've seen start ♪

♪ And you've seen quit ♪

♪ I've always thought
of you as quick ♪

♪ Exhuming McCarthy ♪

♪ Exhuming McCarthy ♪

♪ Exhuming McCarthy ♪

♪ Exhuming McCarthy ♪