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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,960 CLICK, WHIRRING 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:08,960 Previously on The Hack... 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,960 Hacking phones at the News Of The World has been endemic. 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Endemic? 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,960 They've hacked thousands. 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:16,960 There is an industry making huge profit 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,320 from invading people's private lives, 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,160 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 9 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,960 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 10 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,960 Charlotte Harris? Nick Davies of The Guardian. 11 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,640 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 12 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,960 but I can tell you there is so much more to come. 13 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,960 Show me what you have. 14 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,960 A printout of an email proving a payment of ยฃ7,000 15 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,960 to Mulcaire for a story on Gordon Taylor. 16 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,960 And the police have access to all of this and more. 17 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,480 In my opinion, what I have seen 18 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:44,640 is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. 19 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,960 'And since no additional evidence has come to light, 20 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,480 'I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry.' 21 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:51,960 Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 22 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,960 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 23 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,960 Are you reading the statement? No. 24 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:00,960 But I do have things to say. 25 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,960 DIALLING, THUNDER RUMBLING 26 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:09,960 'Welcome to your voicemail. 27 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:11,960 'You have three new messages. 28 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,960 'To listen to your messages, press one.' 29 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:16,640 BEEP 30 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,960 'Papa here. Just wondering when you're over. 31 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:23,960 'Oh, er, the kitchen tap seems to be fixed now, 32 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:25,960 'which is good. So, er...' BEEP 33 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,640 'Message deleted. Next message.' 34 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,960 'Nick, it's Sheridan. 35 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,960 'Erm, just to say I got a call from the bank today. 36 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:34,960 'They said it's in relation to the remortgage, but...' 37 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:37,960 SHE SIGHS '..I felt like someone was fishing.' 38 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:39,800 BEEP 'Message deleted. 39 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,960 'Next message.' 40 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:43,960 'Nick, we're putting together a legal response for Alan. 41 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:46,800 'But we need to speak to you about the Select Committee....' 42 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,960 VOICE FADES INTO FEEDBACK 43 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:50,960 THUNDER RUMBLING 44 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,960 Oh, God. 45 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:58,960 Don't you dare. 46 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,000 Has Alan rung again? Possibly. 47 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,960 Possibly? 48 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:12,960 Could be the school telling me my son's broken his leg. 49 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,960 Or Rebekah Brooks declaring surrender. 50 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,960 Or it could be Alan asking where I am 51 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:18,960 and whether David Leigh is with me. 52 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,960 I didn't answer. I didn't want to lie to him. 53 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,960 Perhaps he'll leave a voicemail. 54 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,960 Why are we here? Good question. 55 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,960 Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 56 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,960 Now, we have a lot of questions, 57 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,960 so try and keep opening statements short. 58 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,960 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 59 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,960 ATTENDEES CHUCKLING Erm, but I do have... 60 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,960 There is quite a lot for me to say. 61 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,960 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email. 62 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:44,960 With respect, Mr Davies, 63 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,960 er, we have quite a few questions for you. I understand. 64 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,640 But I think your questions will be given context... 65 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:51,960 Let's open with a question from... Mr Whittingdale. 66 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,960 Do you want the evidence or not? 67 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,960 I would like to read it. 68 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,960 Yup? OK. 69 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:12,960 There you go. OK. 70 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,960 This is an email sent for Neville Thurlbeck, 71 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:20,960 Chief Reporter for News Of The World. 72 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,960 A document the police have had for some time. 73 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,960 A document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails. 74 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,960 I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims. 75 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,960 But what's more unsettling is that Scotland Yard 76 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,160 have never arrested or interviewed Neville Thurlbeck. 77 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,960 My chief concern is... 78 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,960 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic, 79 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,960 but if we can get back to the matter in hand. 80 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,960 Mr Whittingdale, I'm very worried 81 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,320 that News International journalists have been breaking the law. 82 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,480 And equally worried that Scotland Yard 83 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,960 do not appear to have investigated them. 84 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,960 ATTENDEES MURMURING 85 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:02,960 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic. 86 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,960 It's amazing what you can do with kids' glue and some black paper. 87 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,960 You... You got your kids to redact a... 88 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,960 They enjoyed it. They like craft. 89 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,960 Good revolutionaries. 90 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,960 BOTH CHUCKLE Yeah. 91 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,960 What was that letter Che Guevara wrote to his kids? 92 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,640 PHONE BUZZES 93 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Alan. 94 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,960 Hi. 95 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,960 No, it was fine. 96 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,960 I think we got away with it. 97 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,960 What are they saying? 98 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:45,960 Yes. 99 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:47,960 HE INHALES SHARPLY 100 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,960 Can you just... Yes. 101 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,960 Right. Thanks for letting me know. 102 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,960 David Leppard, The Sunday Times. 103 00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,960 Why is Leppard phoning you? 104 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,960 Er, it wasn't him. 105 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,960 Leppard's spreading a story 106 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,960 that I hired John Ford to hack voicemail. 107 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,960 It's apparently all over Parliament. 108 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,960 John Ford, the blagger? You wouldn't use John Ford. 109 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,960 They're saying it's in relation to our investigation of Monsanto. 110 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,640 I did use an intelligence firm. 111 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,960 Limosis. 112 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,000 It's possible they... subcontracted to John Ford. 113 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,960 Well, The Guardian isn't in trouble any more. 114 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,960 I am. 115 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,960 DOG BARKING 116 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:54,960 John Ford. 117 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,960 John Ford had had his hand 118 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,960 in and out of Alastair Campbell's trash for years. 119 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:02,480 But his real talent was for blagging. 120 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,000 An ex-actor with style. He did all sorts to get all sorts. 121 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Gordon Brown's bank records, for one. 122 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,960 And Alan may have hired him, which... 123 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:15,960 Well... DAVID SNORING 124 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,960 ..the newspaper industry loves a bit of hypocrisy to expose. 125 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,960 BIRDSONG 126 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,800 Morning. 127 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,960 Not the face you were hoping to wake up to? 128 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:36,960 HE GRUNTS 129 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,960 You know, I think the time has come to admit 130 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,960 that John Ford isn't home. 131 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,960 David Leigh, investigations editor at The Guardian. 132 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Also, Alan's brother-in-law. 133 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,960 The Sunday Times have got him well hid. 134 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,960 NICK GROANS, SNIFFS 135 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,800 I think we can give him another day. 136 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Perhaps we can get hold of Alan's paper trail? 137 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,960 Get inside the intelligence firm. 138 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:06,960 Start again. 139 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,960 It'll take too long, they'll publish before... 140 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,960 Then Alan will take a hit, and we hope he survives it. 141 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,960 But sitting here, Nick... 142 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:16,960 ..it's getting us nowhere. 143 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,960 This is not all my fault. 144 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:21,960 Murdoch's an eel. 145 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:24,960 He's entirely relentless. 146 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,960 I'm not picking a fight with Murdoch. 147 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,960 No. 148 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,960 You're picking a fight with our entire industry. 149 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,960 PHONE BUZZES Don't answer it. 150 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,960 No, do. Do. Don't let them leave a voicemail. 151 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,960 NOTIFICATION CHIMES It's an email. Oh. 152 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,960 A statement from the Crown Prosecution Service. 153 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,160 The CPS says, 154 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,320 "It's not appropriate to reopen the case or revisit the decision." 155 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,960 HE GROANS 156 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:53,960 They're not backing us. 157 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,960 What was it that John Yates said about the case? 158 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,960 Something about a small number of, er... 159 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:00,960 Of hacks, yeah. 160 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,960 Our inquiries showed that they only used the tactic 161 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,640 against a far smaller number of individuals. 162 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,960 Page two. 163 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,160 "Searched Mulcaire's office, seized material which indicated 164 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,960 "some non-royal cases had been hacked." Yup. 165 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,960 "The DPP states... 166 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,960 "only a select sample of these could be taken to court 167 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,960 "because any other approach might have made the case unmanageable." 168 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,960 Unmanageable? That suggests a lot of hacking. 169 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,000 By more than one reporter. Yeah. 170 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,160 Almost an admission of such. 171 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,960 I'll write, you call. 172 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,960 Got it. PHONE BEEPING 173 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,800 That means you need to leave the car. 174 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:43,960 Got it. Yeah. 175 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,480 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 176 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:49,640 'Hi there.' 177 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:50,960 I need to speak to somebody at the CPS 178 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,960 about the Glenn Mulcaire prosecution. 179 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,480 'Er, yes, yes. But specifically, how can I help?' 180 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:56,960 Specifically? 181 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,960 I want to know what the police passed up 182 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,960 and you declined to prosecute because any other approach 183 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,160 would have been, quote, "unmanageable". 184 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,960 'OK...' I have information, 185 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,480 particularly an email that I want to discuss. 186 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,960 'Er, yes, sir. Erm, can I put you on hold?' 187 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:12,960 Yes, I will hold. 188 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,960 # Never gonna give you up 189 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,960 # Never gonna let you down... # Really? 190 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:20,960 The plot thickens. 191 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,960 The Neville email was never flagged. 192 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,960 The Met never flagged it to the CPS. 193 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,960 Why not? 194 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,960 I can't give this up. It's too important. 195 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,960 No, I know. 196 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,960 But I won't let it hurt Alan. 197 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,960 I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise. 198 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,960 BELL TOLLING 199 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Hi. Hi. 200 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,160 Made you a sandwich. Oh, cheers. 201 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,960 You look rough. 202 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:09,960 Yeah, and you look beautiful 203 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,960 I'm not sleeping. 204 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,960 No, neither am I. 205 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:16,960 Daniel Morgan. 206 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:17,960 Anything I can... 207 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,960 I can't tell you anything. You know that. 208 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,960 Is there something to tell... No. 209 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,960 Christ. Salmon and cream cheese, eh? 210 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,960 Scottish salmon. DAVE CHUCKLES 211 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,960 And I need some non-Daniel Morgan advice. 212 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,960 You're saying poncy sandwiches don't come free? 213 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,320 Why would the Met not flag evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service? 214 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,960 CPS don't get everything. 215 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,960 And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test, right? 216 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,960 Correct. OK. 217 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,960 So, is this relevant? 218 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,960 They're transcripts for Neville Thurlbeck, 219 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,960 Chief Reporter at the News of the Word. 220 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,160 And they didn't get shown this? 221 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,960 They put it through as "unused material". 222 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:03,960 Shit. 223 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,640 Tell me. What is happening in the Met? 224 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,960 Well, there's obviously a lot I can't tell you. 225 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,960 But what I can say... 226 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,960 is that ever since Stephen Lawrence, 227 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,960 the Met have made it their job to... 228 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,960 Well, Dick Fedorcio, director of communications. 229 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:20,960 Yeah, I've met him. 230 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,960 He currently sits on the Met's senior management team. 231 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,960 Our comms chief, not a police officer. 232 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,960 And he has direct impact on operational decisions. 233 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,960 Good press matters that much? 234 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,960 These meetings are dominated 235 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,960 by how to get the cases that are going well 236 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,800 on the front of the tabloids 237 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,000 and the cases that are not going so well off them. 238 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,960 By order of the Commissioner, 239 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,960 Dick will wine and dine the crime journalists. 240 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,960 And guess who he meets the most? 241 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:49,960 News Of The World and The Sun. 242 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,960 But not flagging this to the CPS? 243 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,960 It's bad. Very bad. Look, will you stop doing that? 244 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,960 You're making me jumpy. I think I'm being watched. 245 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,960 What, you got anything to hide? You, for one thing. 246 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,960 Hey, I'm just meeting a pal for a poncy sandwich. 247 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,960 Glenn Mulcaire did a minimum 20,000 hours' work 248 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,960 for the News Of The World. 249 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,960 That's on record. It's an industrial level of work. 250 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,000 Which means he worked for far more journalists than Clive Goodman. 251 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,960 So, Neville Thurlbeck appears to be one other, but... 252 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,960 was he feeding all of them? 253 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,960 Nick, just be careful, OK? 254 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,960 See, these people... 255 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,960 are not to be fucked with. 256 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,160 PHONE RINGING 257 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,960 FRIDGE DOOR OPENS, CLOSES 258 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,320 There you go, boys. 259 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:48,960 Charlotte Harris. 260 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,320 'Nick Davies.' 261 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:51,800 Right. 262 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,960 You sound delighted to hear from me. 263 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,960 'Delighted and not surprised. 264 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,960 'How'd you get this number? Did you blag it?' 265 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:58,960 Your office gave it to me. 266 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,960 I can be very polite and surprisingly charming. 267 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,960 If you're calling about the CPS enhancement, 268 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,960 I'm as pissed off as you are, but there's nothing I can do. 269 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,960 Look, the CPS have a file on Glenn Mulcaire. 270 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:08,960 'You must know someone...' 271 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,960 Nick, I don't work for you, and I've got to go. 272 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,960 Good luck, and goodbye. 273 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,960 Er, right. OK. 274 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,320 Glenn Mulcaire. 275 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,960 Chief phone hacker for the News Of The World. 276 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,960 Given six months' jail time for the Clive Goodman case, 277 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,960 but now he's out and about. 278 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,480 And sniffing about. 279 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,960 DOOR OPENS 280 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,480 Mr Mulcaire? Nick Davies. 281 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:43,960 I saw you. 282 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:44,960 Maroon Saab by the park. 283 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,960 Think I'd do what I do without being good at it? 284 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,960 I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in The Guardian? 285 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,960 You taping this? 286 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,960 No. No, I wouldn't do that without your consent, Mr Mulcaire. 287 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,960 It's Glenn. 288 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,960 So, who else are you talking to, Nick? 289 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,000 Got anyone good in the police? 290 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,960 Who's your snout at the screws? 291 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,960 Who are YOU still talking to at that paper? 292 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,960 CHUCKLES SOFTLY You're funny. 293 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Why are you here? 294 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,480 Did you ever work for Neville Thurlbeck? 295 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,960 Oh, right. Let me save you some time... 296 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,960 I have an email written to you, 297 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,960 er, which is marked for Neville 298 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,960 from Ross Hindley, and it contains transcripts of 35... 299 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,960 Everything I did came out in court. 300 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,960 Anything more than that, I didn't do. 301 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,960 They cut you off, right? 302 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,960 You do know you're still open to future charges? 303 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,960 Get out now, before the whole thing collapses on you. 304 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,960 You know I've got five kids in there. 305 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,960 And you come to my house and what, threaten me? 306 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:40,960 I wasn't threatening you. 307 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,960 You any idea what you're dealing with? 308 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,640 GLENN CHUCKLES 309 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,960 Look, you do yours, and I'll do mine, yeah? 310 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,960 I wasn't threatening you. 311 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,960 I was just telling you they won't help. 312 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,640 'OK, so, there is a lie happening here.' 313 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,960 The CPS memo shows this stretches right inside News International. 314 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Glenn Mulcaire essentially confirmed it. 315 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:04,960 He didn't confirm it. 316 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,960 I'm digging in. In the meantime, I'd like to publish 317 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,960 "Are Scotland Yard Scared of Rupert Murdoch?" 318 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,320 Saying what? 319 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,160 Saying they... 320 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,960 buried evidence which should have been passed to the CPS. 321 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,960 Poking the bear. Well, that's what we do now. Poke the bear. 322 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,960 No. Can we just take a minute? What's your angle here? 323 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,480 Well, I have two lines of attack. 324 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,960 One, to reveal who was on their shopping list. 325 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:25,960 I need names. Much more of them. 326 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,960 There were far more than, than... three royals, five non-royals. 327 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,960 I want to know who signed off on these names. 328 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,320 I need proof it was more than Clive Goodman. 329 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,960 How will you get that? 330 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,960 My second line of attack is to get inside the police... 331 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,960 A mistake. ..to discover why this evidence 332 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,960 wasn't flagged to the CPS. 333 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,960 What criminality was ignored, and why? 334 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320 John Yates called me and said we've got the wrong end of the stick 335 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,960 with the police in all this. 336 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:47,960 WE'RE on the wrong end of the stick? Yes! 337 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,960 Do you not think that's possible? 338 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,960 Look, are we sure this is sensible? 339 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,960 We're risking our relationship with the police 340 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,800 and with good journalists from other newspapers. 341 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,960 Why? To root out a few bad apples. 342 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,960 It doesn't seem... Bad apples, wrong sticks?! 343 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:01,960 I agree with Nick. 344 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,960 The Neville email is extraordinary, 345 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,640 and the fact that they didn't flag it to the CPS 346 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:08,960 more extraordinary still. 347 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,960 A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking. 348 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,960 That didn't warrant an investigation? 349 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,160 There are potentially thousands of victims, 350 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,960 but the Met is only claiming a small number. 351 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,960 What do you think, Gill? 352 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,960 For a public interest defence, 353 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,960 you need to be absolutely sure of your facts. 354 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,960 Right now, this feels a bit small. 355 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:26,960 I have to say I agree. 356 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,640 Let's pause on the Scotland Yard article. 357 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,960 Let's let the PCC... 358 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,640 Press Complaints Commission. 359 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,960 The PCC will settle all of this down. 360 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960 They'll back us, and it will all be easier. 361 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,960 What else have we got? 362 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,640 Something other than 363 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 "When's Gordon Brown going to call this next damn election?" 364 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,960 'Listen, Alan's nervous, but he's right.' 365 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,960 You need more, but the angles you're pursuing, also right. 366 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,480 Who says the PCC are gonna back us? 367 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:57,960 What, you don't think they will? 368 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,800 Why is Alan waiting for them? You know we have to keep pushing. 369 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,160 It's kill or be killed. We can't wait. 370 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,960 Yes. The Sunday Times are getting ready to publish 371 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,960 on John Ford and Alan. 372 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,960 Right. Mm. 373 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,960 Have Limosis come back with any more? 374 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,960 Nothing that gives us categorical proof. 375 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,960 He's in trouble. 376 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Just give him time. 377 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,960 They're accusing him of being a hypocrite. 378 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,960 We have hypocrisy on hypocrisy. The world's gone mad. 379 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:24,960 Look, Nick... 380 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,960 Nick. 381 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,960 No, Nick. Nick, Nick. 382 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,960 Whatever you're doing, Nick, stop. NICK DIALLING 383 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,960 LINE RINGING OUT 384 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:41,960 'Hello?' 385 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,960 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 386 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,960 Can I have The Sunday Times managing editor's office? 387 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,960 I mean it, Nick. 388 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,320 'Hello?' 389 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,960 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 390 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,800 'Right.' Yeah. 391 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,960 I'd like confirmation, on the record, 392 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,960 of, A, how many times you've made payments to John Ford 393 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,960 to blag into confidential databases, 394 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,960 and B, the period of time over which these payments have been made. 395 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,960 'OK. We'll need to investigate.' 396 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,960 Of course. You'll need to do some investigation. 397 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:11,960 You just call me back 398 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,960 whenever you've had the chance to do so, yeah? 399 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,480 'Right.' 400 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,320 Great, thanks. Bye-bye. 401 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,320 GLENN SIGHS Hi. 402 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,960 Peace offering. 403 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,160 I don't drink. 404 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,960 Can I get you something softer? 405 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,960 A Mars bar? GLENN CHUCKLES 406 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,960 Yeah, sure, I'd tell you everything I know for a Mars bar. 407 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,960 I wasn't... I'm not threatening you. 408 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,000 No, no. You're Willy Wonka. Chocolate for everyone. 409 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,960 NICK LAUGHS 410 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,960 I want to know your side of the story. 411 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,960 How'd you find me here? 412 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,960 You're on the club's website. 413 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,160 You won the Big Break competition two years ago. Congratulations. 414 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,960 In court transcripts, it says that you worked for 415 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,960 News Of The World for 70 hours a week. 416 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:01,960 Oh, here we go. 417 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,960 Over six years, that's over 20,000 hours. 418 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,960 What were you doing for them during that time? 419 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,960 I'm a PI. I did PI work. 420 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:10,960 For who? 421 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,960 Because it wasn't just Clive Goodman. 422 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,960 Oh, oh, oh. Naming names? That's two Mars bars, at least. 423 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,160 I know you aren't to blame for all this. 424 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,960 Your name is in the mud already. 425 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,960 If you explain exactly what you did and who you were working for... 426 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,960 Even if I wanted to tell you who, 427 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,960 the police have got all my notebooks and my computers 428 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,800 and everything, so... 429 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,960 Notebooks? What's in those? 430 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,960 GLENN SIGHS 431 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,000 Fuck you. It was in the CPS report that your office was searched 432 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,960 and material seized, but I didn't know there were notebooks. 433 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,800 You find me a PI who doesn't write things down. 434 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,960 Well, what's in them? Lines of inquiry? 435 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,960 Names of the people you were hacking - 436 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,960 sorry, doing PI work on? 437 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,960 And the names of who you were doing them for? 438 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,960 Names of the News Of The World journalists. 439 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,960 Go away. 440 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,960 And take your cheap beer with you. 441 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,960 I do not think... 442 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,960 genuinely, really do not think that you should be the fall guy here. 443 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,960 Yeah, well, be careful that you're not a fall guy too. 444 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:08,960 Eh, champ? 445 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,960 Now, please fuck off. 446 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,800 Let me do the one thing I still enjoy. 447 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:15,960 All right. 448 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,320 Good luck. 449 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,960 'Mulcaire's given me an idea.' 450 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,960 'Good. All he's given me is a headache.' 451 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,960 We need to get inside the court system, 452 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,960 we need to get more information released. 453 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:32,960 'Sorry?' 454 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 They won't release documents to me. 455 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,960 They will if they're compelled to by a judge. 456 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,960 'Hang on. Can you calm down?' 457 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,640 What? 458 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:41,960 Children. 459 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,960 You are aware it's the weekend? 460 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,640 Oh, right. The police have Mulcaire's notebooks. 461 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,960 If we can get them into the public eye, we'll see... 462 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,960 who hired who, how high this goes, who was being hacked. 463 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,960 'I need... We need compelled evidence.' 464 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:54,960 KIDS CHATTERING 465 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,960 You swapped between "I need" and "We need" 466 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,960 in the same sentence, do you know that? 467 00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:59,960 I know you've other clients. 468 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,960 I know you're building several cases here. 469 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,960 'Help me, it'll help you too.' 470 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,800 KIDS LAUGHING 471 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:06,960 We don't work together, Nick. 472 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,960 Well, of course we don't. But we do have the same cause. 473 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,960 'I can't get inside the notebooks 474 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,960 'because I'm not mentioned in the notebooks.' 475 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,960 But you find a client who IS in there, 476 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,000 who has the bravery to take it to court, suddenly... 477 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,160 you can see how much this opens up. 478 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,960 Yeah. 479 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,800 SHE INHALES SHARPLY 480 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,960 Let me, erm... 481 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,480 There might be somebody you could talk to. 482 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,960 Well, let me know as soon as you can, OK? 483 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,960 Yes, I heard you. I'm on it. 484 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,640 OK, thanks. Bye. 485 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,320 There is an art to fear. 486 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,000 An art the News Of The World and The Sun 487 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,960 and all those nasty buggers mastered a long time ago. 488 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,960 They call it monstering. 489 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,160 Grievous emotional harm. 490 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,960 The kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover. 491 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,960 A monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved, 492 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,960 and it is intended to make sure 493 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,960 that no-one stands up to them ever again. 494 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Take former Labour government minister Clare Short. 495 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,960 She criticised The Sun's use of topless women to sell the paper. 496 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960 She found herself denounced to millions as... 497 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,160 Killjoy Clare. 498 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,960 Short on looks... 499 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,960 Short on brains. 500 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,800 The paper offered free car stickers, 501 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,960 sent page three models round to her home, 502 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,960 ran a beauty contest to ask their readers 503 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,960 whether they would prefer to see her face or the back of a bus. 504 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,160 PHOTOGRAPHERS CLAMOURING 505 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,960 The News Of The World ran two bogus stories 506 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,480 suggesting Clare was involved in pornography, 507 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,960 tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20-year-old in a nightdress 508 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,960 and published a smear story 509 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,960 which attempted to link her to a West Indian gangster. 510 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,960 GUN COCKS, FIRES 511 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,320 They monstered her. 512 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:55,960 It was horrible. 513 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,160 In his diary, Alastair Campbell recalls the ferocious monstering 514 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,960 which was given to the then Transport Secretary, 515 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,000 Stephen Byers, in 2002. 516 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000 It continued even after he resigned. 517 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,960 It's like they get a corpse, 518 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,960 but then they're disappointed there's nothing left to kill. 519 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,960 So they try and kill the dead body too. 520 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,960 So standing up to it, 521 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,000 standing up to that paper takes guts. 522 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,960 And possibly a little insanity. 523 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,960 Max, it's an honour. 524 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,000 An honour? Is that right? 525 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:29,960 Max Clifford. 526 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,960 King of the kiss and tell. 527 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,960 His job was bargaining with the tabloids 528 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,960 to get the best headlines and the most money 529 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,960 for his string of clients. 530 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,960 Didn't need to be true, just needed to sell. 531 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,960 Do you remember "Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster"? 532 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:44,960 He wrote that headline. 533 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,960 But maybe it takes a tabloid man to kill the tabloids. 534 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,960 I'm sincerely grateful for you being here. 535 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,960 Charlotte explained your problem. 536 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,640 I have a feeling that our interests might align on this. 537 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,960 They hacked me. That's on record. 538 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,960 And I want to find out who signed off on it. 539 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,960 Well, that's extremely important. 540 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,000 We HOPE it will be important. 541 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,960 We've had our first disclosure. We made an application to the courts. 542 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960 This is everything Mulcaire wrote about Max. 543 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,320 Hm. 544 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,960 They've redacted everything. 545 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,480 In particular, anything which might identify 546 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,960 the News Of The World journalists 547 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,960 who might have commissioned the hacking. 548 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,960 I'm going back to court. We'll get more. 549 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,960 Question. When they disclosed Gordon Taylor's paperwork, 550 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,960 did they redact anything? 551 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,960 No. Why start now? 552 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,960 Because it implicates them. 553 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,960 So did Gordon Taylor. 554 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,960 They're... They're working out how to make themselves impenetrable. 555 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960 They're watching us. 556 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,960 You do know what you're taking on? 557 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Do you know who you're talking to? 558 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,960 I believe Rebekah Brooks is your friend. 559 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,160 Didn't you help her when she was accused of assault? 560 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,960 I help her. But not in that case. 561 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,960 I have my loyalties, and I have beliefs. 562 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,960 I mean, I know Andy Coulson. 563 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,000 But him, sitting next to the Prime Minister, 564 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960 that's wrong in every way. 565 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,960 All the same... 566 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,320 I've spent my entire life inside that machine. 567 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,960 I know what their guns smell like. 568 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:17,960 Do you? 569 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,960 We need you, Max. 570 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,960 Christ. If I'm your best hope... 571 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,000 you're fucked. 572 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,800 You look tired. 573 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:40,960 Are you sleeping? 574 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,960 Oh, I've definitely slept better. 575 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960 That, erm, mortgage application, did that come back at all? 576 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,000 No, but there was something else. Erm... 577 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,960 So, when I was picking the kids up, er, someone I didn't recognise 578 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,000 started talking to me about a Maggie someone. 579 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,640 Now, that's an ex of yours, right? 580 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:01,960 Oh, God. Did they see the kids? 581 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,960 Yeah, I mean, they kept it casual, but... 582 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,800 Shit! 583 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,960 Maggie? God, they're desperately digging. 584 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,960 I didn't like it, Nick. 585 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,000 School gate. 586 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,960 KNOCK AT DOOR 587 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,800 Well, look, they approach you again, 588 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,960 you take out your phone, you take a photograph. 589 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:20,960 OK. 590 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,000 And promise me it's not gonna get worse than this. 591 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,960 Well, they'd be really stupid to do anything I could print. 592 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,800 But I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. 593 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,960 Will they find any skeletons? 594 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,480 If they look properly, they'll find a cemetery. 595 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,960 KNOCKING This is a delivery. 596 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,960 You stay where you are. No, no, no. Let me go. 597 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,960 All right. We'll... Let's talk later. 598 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,160 Bye, kids. 599 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,960 - Bye. - Bye. 600 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:45,960 DOOR OPENS Alan! 601 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,960 Sheridan. Oh... 602 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,800 How are you? 603 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,960 I'm good. You all right? Mm. 604 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,960 I am, erm... I'll leave you to it. 605 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960 Hello. You coming in? 606 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,960 No. 607 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,960 I've got food on. There's enough. 608 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,960 I have some, er, good news, actually. 609 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Max Clifford, of all people, taking them to court. 610 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,960 John Ford thing's gone away. 611 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,960 Great. 612 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,960 You think I don't know how? 613 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Let's talk inside. 614 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,480 Nick Davies, 615 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,960 always guaranteed to bring a flamethrower to a knife fight. 616 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,160 It was the best thing to do. 617 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960 You didn't think to consult me beforehand? 618 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,320 It's gone away, Alan. 619 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,960 Because you, erm... 620 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,320 What's the right word to use here? 621 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,960 ..provoked them. 622 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,960 In Flat Earth News, I found substantial proof 623 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,960 that The Sunday Times were using John Ford. 624 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,960 That doesn't matter. Of course it matters. 625 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,960 They were wrong to use John Ford. 626 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,960 I was wrong if I did, inadvertently, use John Ford. 627 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,960 And you were wrong to get involved 628 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,960 in a way that wasn't asked for and wasn't warranted. 629 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,960 I was trying to broker peace with John Witherow, 630 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,960 and you could have destabilised that, 631 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,960 and starting a fight with the News Of The World 632 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:55,960 and The Sunday Times... 633 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,960 I knew it would work. Are you denying that it did? 634 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,160 No. But if you knew it would work, 635 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,960 why didn't you make that call at the very beginning? 636 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,320 Why did you try and find him? 637 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,640 Spend a couple of nights in a car with David Leigh? 638 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,160 Jesus Christ, Nick, you're such a... 639 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,800 ..hazard. 640 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,960 I was just following what was... 641 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,960 Alan, come on. Look... HE CHUCKLES 642 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:16,960 We need to keep pushing. 643 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,960 They will push back. We need to keep pushing. 644 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,960 I get it, you're exhausted. 645 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,960 You think you're taking on everyone by yourself, 646 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,640 but it's not just you in the box on this one, Nick. 647 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,960 It's all of us. 648 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,960 And I can't have a hand on your leg the whole time. 649 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,480 CAR DOOR CLOSES 650 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,000 ENGINE STARTS 651 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,960 HE SIGHS 652 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,960 HE SIGHS 653 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,960 'What have you done? 654 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,960 'You stupid child.' 655 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,960 PHONE BUZZES 656 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,960 Yeah? 657 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,320 'I guessed you'd be up.' Yup. 658 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,960 'The Press Complaints Commission have come back.' 659 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,960 Not good news? 660 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,960 ' "The PCC has seen no new evidence 661 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,640 ' "to suggest that the practice of the phone messaging tapping 662 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,960 ' "was undertaken by other beyond Goodman and Mulcaire 663 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,960 ' "or evidence that the News Of The World executives 664 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,960 ' "knew about Goodman or Mulcaire's activities." 665 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,800 'You were right, Alan was wrong. They haven't backed us either.' 666 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,960 Yeah, OK. 667 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,960 'Sorry, Nick.' Mm. Thanks for calling. 668 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,160 Bye. 'Bye.' 669 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,960 PHONE BUZZES 670 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,960 'Please enter your four-digit PIN.' 671 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,640 DIALLING 672 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800 'Welcome to your voicemail. 673 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,960 'You have four new messages. 674 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,640 'To listen to your messages, press one.' 675 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,320 BEEP 'Er, this is Carl. 676 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,960 'I'm here to read your meter. You said you'd be here...' 677 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,480 BEEP 'Message deleted. Next message.' 678 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,960 'Hey, it's Charlotte. 679 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,960 'We've entered the amended claim for Max, 680 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,800 'and we're waiting for the courts...' 681 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,960 BEEP 'Message deleted. Next message.' 682 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,960 'Nick, hi, it's me. Er, another one. 683 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,960 'Not sure if it's anything, but a girl you used to...' 684 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,960 'Message deleted. 685 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,000 'Next message.' 686 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,960 FEEDBACK, ELECTRICAL WHIRRING 687 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,960 HE TAKES DEEP BREATH 688 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,480 HE CLEARS THROAT 689 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,320 KNOCKING 690 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,960 Hello, Dad. 691 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,480 You're looking thinner. 692 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:02,960 You look good. 693 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,640 Still a charmer. 694 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,960 CROCKERY RATTLING 695 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960 I should be helping with that, Papa. 696 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,000 Ha. Should, would, could. 697 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,960 No, you can't. 698 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,960 Anyway, these are the good hours. 699 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,960 What's that mean? 700 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,960 Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11:00am, 701 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,960 and then again from 3:00pm. 702 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,960 But 11:00 till 3:00... Is a holiday. 703 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,960 Never get old. 704 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,960 So, you've got four good hours, and you sleep for... 705 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,960 presumably eight... 706 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,960 Yes, well, don't turn it into a maths puzzle. 707 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,160 I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel. 708 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,960 That's all that counts. 709 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:00,960 The crossword in The Times. 710 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,960 Should I stop buying The Times? 711 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,800 Yes. 712 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,320 I won't. I know. 713 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,960 I've, erm, been reading your pieces. 714 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,000 You even managed to watch the Select Committee. 715 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,960 I have no idea how you even did that. 716 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,960 I'm not a dinosaur! 717 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,160 I can use the Internet. 718 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,960 So, is it all as hard as it looks? 719 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:26,960 It's fine. 720 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,480 You've got nothing to prove. 721 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:32,960 I'm not trying to prove anything. 722 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,800 Your mother would have liked it. 723 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,960 All this trouble. 724 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:47,960 She always liked trouble. 725 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,960 Just be safe with yourself. 726 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:57,960 That's all I ask. 727 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,960 Just be safe. 728 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,000 Thank you. 729 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,960 Fifth floor, yeah? 730 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,960 TICKING 731 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,960 DOOR CREAKS 732 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,960 Mr Davies. Assistant Commissioner. 733 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,000 Thank you for coming in. Thank you. 734 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,960 Dick said we should meet. Yes. 735 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,960 Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting. 736 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,960 I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over, 737 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,960 so we can help each other. 738 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,960 Mm. I don't think I can help. 739 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,320 No, no, no. I'm here to help you. 740 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,480 A story that makes Scotland Yard look good. 741 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,480 I just need you to confirm that in order to be able to, 742 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,960 er, inform all the potential victims of the hacking, 743 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,960 that you've set up a new database 744 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,960 containing all the evidence which you gathered in 2006. 745 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:11,960 Have we? 746 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,960 Er... 747 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,960 Well, I've very good word 748 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,960 from lawyers who've been in touch with the Yard, 749 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,960 saying that you're taking the need to organise 750 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,640 the evidence which perhaps wasn't organised quite so well seriously. 751 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,960 All right, fine. 752 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,000 Maybe we have organised a database. 753 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,960 I will give you that. 754 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,480 But in return, 755 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,960 maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me. 756 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,960 We have nothing to do with News International, 757 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,960 and you bloody well know it. 758 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,320 Assistant Commissioner, my interest... 759 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,960 Do you think I don't know what you're doing? 760 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,800 When I appeared in front of that damn Select Committee, 761 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,960 I could see, I could see in the eye movements of the MPs 762 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,960 that you'd briefed all but one of them. 763 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,960 I'm sorry, eye movements? 764 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,960 Mm-hm. I'm a clever cop, Mr Davies. 765 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,960 Right. 766 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,960 Why didn't you pass the CPS the email to Neville Thurlbeck 767 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,000 which clearly implicated him in the hacking scandal? 768 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,320 Was it because, well, as the CPS have said, 769 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,960 that you could only use a sample 770 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,960 because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise? 771 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,960 No. The CPS were clear. 772 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,960 With the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 773 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,960 it is only a crime 774 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,960 if the intended victim had not already heard the message. 775 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,960 No-one interprets RIPA like that except you. 776 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,960 All I want to know is the extent of this. 777 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,960 Can you tell me how many victims of phone hacking 778 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:28,960 you've been able to identify? 779 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,480 Mr Davies, 780 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,000 the Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you. 781 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,320 The Press Complaints Commission do not agree with you. 782 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,960 And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you. 783 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,960 There's dog-minded, and then there's just dog. 784 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,960 This left-wing attack on Murdoch by The Guardian... 785 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,480 If you can't give me a bald number, 786 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,960 just tell me how many victims were in Mulcaire's notebooks. 787 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,960 HE LAUGHS 788 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,960 I have never fallen out with a journalist before. 789 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,960 Well, you finally have done so. 790 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,320 Congratulations. 791 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,960 DOOR OPENS 792 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,960 HE SIGHS 793 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,960 CHATTER 794 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,960 This is Kate Saunders from The Guardian newspaper... 795 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,960 PHONE RINGING 796 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:38,960 Hi. 797 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,160 Look, I brought you a gift. 798 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,160 It's an "I'm not sorry" gift. 799 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,320 Gonna look? 800 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,960 But I'm also, erm... 801 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,480 I'm stuck, so... 802 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,160 If calling it an "I'm not sorry" gift is offensive, 803 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,960 call it a "damn" gift. 804 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,960 As in, "Damn, I'm stuck. Please help". 805 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,320 Why are you stuck? 806 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,960 They are... Everybody is... 807 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:08,960 HE SIGHS 808 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,960 No-one is telling me the truth, and I... 809 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,960 Basic thing about you, Nick, 810 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,960 is that each time you find someone lying to you, 811 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,960 you are utterly amazed, 812 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,960 even though you've devoted most of your life to uncovering liars. 813 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,960 I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart... 814 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,960 ..of an agitated otter. 815 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,960 They, erm... Talking of cynicism, 816 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,960 they're now spreading a rumour that I have a love child. 817 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:35,960 A love child. 818 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,960 They're coming after me too. 819 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,480 Sheridan's been farming all sorts of calls. 820 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,160 But they're not telling lies about you. 821 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960 Why are the only lies about me? Don't know. 822 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,960 Because they think attacking me 823 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,960 is the easiest way of shutting you up? 824 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,960 Clever, really. 825 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,160 They know I need you. 826 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,960 How curious you choose now to say something so kind. 827 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:02,960 Oh, God. 828 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,000 I'm your Sancho Panza. 829 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,960 HE LAUGHS 830 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,960 I always thought I was yours. 831 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,960 I'm sorry for making your life difficult. 832 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,960 I don't... 833 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,480 I don't take our friendship to mean that... 834 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,960 I don't - I don't expect you to print everything I write. 835 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,960 You're just doing what you're doing. 836 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,960 Which is why you're the best. 837 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,960 Which is why I pay you. Handsomely. 838 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,640 HE CHUCKLES 839 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,960 You're just as optimistic as me. 840 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,480 Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on our side. 841 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,640 Even I didn't... 842 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,960 How a so-called industry regulator could say that about us... 843 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,960 Well, it's the death of self-regulation. 844 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:42,960 Me? What do I do? 845 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,960 Can't you call your Mr Apollo? 846 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,320 No, he's gone. Said he would. 847 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,960 He always contacted me, never from the same line twice. 848 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,960 Well, wait for Max Clifford and your day in court. 849 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,960 Max is important, but we can't wait. We're in a firefight here. 850 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,960 They're gonna keep slinging mud till something sticks. 851 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:03,960 Then... 852 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,960 Oh, what about the phone companies? 853 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,000 Sorry? 854 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,960 Yates made that claim in the Select Committee 855 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,960 that they'd asked the companies if there were any other victims 856 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,960 of Mulcaire and Goodman, in order to take appropriate action. 857 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,960 Yeah, I remember. Well... 858 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:25,640 Ask the phone companies to disclose how many victims they identified 859 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,960 and warned of being hacked. 860 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,960 You might get the hacked numbers that way. 861 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,320 You're a genius, Sancho. 862 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,480 Never call me that again. 863 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,960 Go on. Click it. 864 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,960 Just click it. 865 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,960 PEN CLICKS Got books. She's not naked. 866 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,960 Those pens, you click, they're naked, but she's covered in books. 867 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,960 It's a joke. Thanks for explaining it to me. 868 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,960 I'll never use it. I'll never ask you to. 869 00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,960 Thank you. 870 00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:01,960 The Commissioner called after you left Yates. 871 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,960 He said to me that, erm, 872 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,960 your coverage of the hacking scandal 873 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,960 was exaggerated and incorrect. 874 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,960 It's the first time I've felt genuine confidence 875 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,320 that we're doing absolutely the right thing. 876 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,960 NICK CHUCKLES SOFTLY 877 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:16,960 Adios. 878 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,960 The Select Committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, 879 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,960 meeting press, politicians, the police. 880 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,960 Trying to meet Rebekah Brooks - she said no. 881 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,960 Though they succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said... 882 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,960 As little as possible. 883 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,960 But they were working it as best they could. 884 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,640 And I was working with them as best I could, 885 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,000 feeding them occasional questions. 886 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,960 Which we asked in our own way. 887 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,000 Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing - 888 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,960 in a memo written by Yates - 889 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,960 that the mobile phone companies had been contacted... 890 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,960 was a way in. 891 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,160 The police provided the individual phone companies 892 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,960 details of the telephone numbers. 893 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,960 And it was agreed that they would individually research, 894 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,960 assess and address whether or not, and to what degree, 895 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,640 their customers had been the subject of contact by the suspects. 896 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,960 What I'm looking to find out is, when the police contacted you, 897 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,960 what number of victims you managed to trace 898 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,960 and how many you contacted. 899 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,000 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY Right, but... Yes. 900 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,960 But John Yates was quoted in the Select Committee 901 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,960 as saying you were spoken to, so... 902 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,320 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY 903 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,960 My question is, did you ignore the Assistant Commissioner 904 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,960 of the Metropolitan Police? 905 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,160 - Yeah, sure. Sure, I'll hold. - Nick. 906 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,960 O2, 40 victims. 907 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,000 Now, it's only one. 908 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,160 It's only one. When one goes, they all... 909 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,960 Yes, it is. Now, O2 have just confirmed 910 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,320 that once they were alerted by the police, 911 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,960 they contacted 40 hacking victims. 912 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,960 I just wondered whether you have a number for us. 913 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,000 Or have you more to hide than them? 914 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,960 MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY Great. Great. How many? 915 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:57,960 'Broadly the same as O2.' 916 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,960 You think you can do any better than "Broadly the same as O2"? 917 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,640 Orange have come back with 45 victims. 918 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:04,960 Do you want to match that number instead? 919 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,320 MAN LAUGHING IN NEWSROOM 920 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,960 No? OK. Right, OK. 921 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,960 Well, thank you very much. Thank you, bye. 922 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,960 O2, 40 victims. 923 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,960 Vodafone, 40 victims, Orange, 45 victims. 924 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,160 Together with the original eight, 925 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,000 that's more than 130 people who had their phones hacked. 926 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,640 Far more than Yates said. 927 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,960 And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg. 928 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,960 OK. Let's do it. 929 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,960 PRINTERS WHIRRING 930 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,000 'This wasn't just Goodman. 931 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,320 'This wasn't just the Royals. 932 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,960 'This was a practice. This was our foothold. 933 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,960 'And yet...' 934 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,960 Even though News International should have been on fire, 935 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,960 it, once again, barely hit the sides. 936 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,960 DISTORTED WHIZZING 937 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,960 And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either. 938 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:14,960 'Good scoop.' 939 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960 The mobile phone companies, very good. 940 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,320 Makes me happy to hear you say words like "scoop". 941 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,960 Why, is that not what you say? You ever said "You're nicked"? 942 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,960 I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man. 943 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,960 It doesn't matter. No-one's reporting it. 944 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,480 Doesn't matter what it is, we're just getting frozen out. 945 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,960 So try harder. What? 946 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,960 Try harder. Stop pussyfooting around. 947 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,800 You think this is pussyfooting? 948 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,320 I put my paper on the line, myself on the line. 949 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:41,960 But you're not nailing people. 950 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:42,960 You're not asking the right questions. 951 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,960 Oh, you're a journalist now? 952 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,960 Why was your Neville email not passed on? 953 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,640 Print the photo on your front page 954 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,640 of Assistant Commissioner John Yates and Rebekah Brooks 955 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,960 sitting together at the Police Bravery Awards. 956 00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:58,960 They sat together? 957 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,960 Print what she said in Parliament, 958 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,000 "We have paid the police for information", 959 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,960 and say that doesnae even go halfway to the truth. 960 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,960 There's a murky swamp out there, Nick. 961 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,000 Top-tier police and the media. 962 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,960 And that needs reporting. 963 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,960 I'm trying to write about all these things. 964 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,640 Unfortunately, it's speculative and libellous. 965 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,960 You need evidence. So do I. 966 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,960 If you want to help, give me something concrete. 967 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,960 All right. I've dug. 968 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,960 The case, the Neville email, the hacking. 969 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,960 That case was given to Specialist Operations. 970 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,320 Terrorist branch? 971 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,960 The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Hayman. 972 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,960 I know that name. 973 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,960 Yeah, well, he disappeared. 974 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,960 Retirement in a puff of smoke. 975 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:43,960 And then reappeared... 976 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,960 Er, yeah, writing articles for The Times. 977 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,000 That's why I know the name. Exactly. 978 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,640 The press goes through the police like a stick of rock. 979 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,960 And News International, they're the worst of the lot. 980 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:56,960 It's still speculative. 981 00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,960 Sorry, my friend. I need more. 982 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:03,960 Aye. 983 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,960 PHONE RINGS 984 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,960 Charlotte. 'Hi.' Tell me some good news. 985 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,960 'It's Max.' 986 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,320 Max. 987 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,960 Fucking hell, you brought him? 988 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,960 Max, we've got them on the rack. 989 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,960 You settle, the whole thing gets covered up again. 990 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,960 You've got them on the rack? With what? 991 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,960 What we need, I can't get. 992 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,960 Stand tall. Be the man who made a difference. 993 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,960 "Be the man"! Do you listen to yourself? 994 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,960 This isn't... Please, listen to my advice here. 995 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,320 You just want your piece of it. 996 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,960 Oh, your backwoods deal? 997 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,960 Oh, I like to think I'm better than that. 998 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,960 No-one is better than money. How much? 999 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,960 Oh, go on! How much? 1000 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:31,960 Fuck off. 1001 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,960 Oh, well. We tried. 1002 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,960 The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than ยฃ1 million. 1003 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,000 Some to cover his legal costs, 1004 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,960 most in the form of guaranteed income 1005 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,960 for stories he would sell them over the next three years. 1006 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,960 This meant it could be presented 1007 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,640 as something other than the payment of damages. 1008 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,320 This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut. 1009 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,960 This meant it wasn't news. 1010 00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,960 Nobody was fooled, but it was clever. 1011 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,960 Our biggest gun was spiked. 1012 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:06,960 'First election debate. 1013 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,960 'Tonight, history in the making, as we are joined by 1014 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,960 'the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, 1015 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,960 'the Conservative Party leader, David Cameron, 1016 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,960 'and the leader of the Labour Party, Gordon Brown.' 1017 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,800 AUDIENCE APPLAUDING 1018 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,960 'The truth is, power and secrecy walk hand in hand. 1019 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,960 'Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope. 1020 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,960 'Power generates secrecy simply because it can. 1021 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,960 'Downing Street, Scotland Yard, 1022 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,960 'they're no different to other powerful organisations. 1023 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,960 'They find secrecy easy, 1024 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,480 'natural and extremely helpful, 1025 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,960 'regardless of whether or not it may cheat the public 1026 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,960 'of information to which they have a profound right. 1027 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,960 'But here's the thing about power and secrecy. 1028 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,960 'If you can expose the secrecy, 1029 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:01,960 'you might... you might, MIGHT... 1030 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,960 '..break the power.' 1031 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,640 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 76819

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