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When you create
a story about yourself
4
00:01:06,609 --> 00:01:11,489
that's based on a lie
about who you are
and who your family is,
5
00:01:11,530 --> 00:01:13,365
sooner or later,
it's bound to be revealed.
6
00:01:22,291 --> 00:01:26,003
It's a reflection of a state
built on falsehoods and lies...
7
00:01:28,172 --> 00:01:31,133
the product
of violent political changes...
8
00:01:34,178 --> 00:01:37,306
the story of someone looking
for the truth about the past,
9
00:01:37,348 --> 00:01:38,849
the truth about themselves.
10
00:01:38,891 --> 00:01:40,142
Who are we really?
11
00:01:42,061 --> 00:01:45,439
A person who was
looking for a way up
and a way to be somebody
12
00:01:45,481 --> 00:01:49,026
in a part of the world
where history's
been manipulated.
13
00:07:05,384 --> 00:07:10,013
One of the legacies of Communism
is a legacy of distrust.
14
00:07:10,055 --> 00:07:13,392
Distrust both for your neighbors
and for people who you know,
15
00:07:13,433 --> 00:07:15,978
but also distrust
for the government.
16
00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:20,774
Jobbik seemed to offer something
new, something energetic.
17
00:07:20,816 --> 00:07:24,194
It offered power
to younger people.
18
00:07:24,236 --> 00:07:27,906
Csanád Szegedi was absolutely
one of those young people,
19
00:07:27,948 --> 00:07:30,159
and he needed something
to be part of.
20
00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:53,617
One of the things
Csanád was always interested in
was power.
21
00:08:53,659 --> 00:08:57,162
Running the Hungarian Guard
gave him that sense
of being in charge of something.
22
00:08:59,915 --> 00:09:03,919
His love of symbols
and his understanding
of how they can be manipulated
23
00:09:03,961 --> 00:09:06,797
was very fundamental
to his character.
24
00:09:08,674 --> 00:09:11,760
And Csanád immediately
caught on that you could
make things exciting
25
00:09:11,802 --> 00:09:14,554
by giving people
something to look at,
something to march in.
26
00:10:38,597 --> 00:10:40,599
Jobbik plays openly
with taboos,
27
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,977
and the Hungarian Guard
was the greatest game of taboo
that they played.
28
00:10:47,439 --> 00:10:51,568
"We're challenging the narrative
that fascism is bad
and fascism was defeated.
29
00:10:51,610 --> 00:10:54,029
Now that there's an alternative
version of Hungarian history
30
00:10:54,071 --> 00:10:55,906
which has been preserved
in secret,
31
00:10:55,947 --> 00:10:59,368
and now we can bring it
out in the open again."
32
00:10:59,409 --> 00:11:02,537
Csanád Szegedi was absolutely
part of creating that sense.
33
00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:27,706
Jobbik emerged from obscurity
34
00:12:27,747 --> 00:12:32,002
to clinch that 15 percent
and three seats
in the European Parliament,
35
00:12:32,043 --> 00:12:35,797
revealing a striking shift
to the right in Hungary.
36
00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:38,175
The global financial crisis
has hit hard here...
37
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,005
Csanád became,
at a very young age,
a very prominent person.
38
00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:48,925
He was connected
to the leadership,
connected to its founding,
39
00:16:48,967 --> 00:16:53,972
connected to the Hungarian Guard
and connected to all of its
publications and activities.
40
00:16:54,013 --> 00:16:55,849
Csanád wasn't merely
an ideologue.
41
00:16:55,890 --> 00:17:00,270
He was somebody who sought
to organize, to make money,
to fund the party,
42
00:17:00,311 --> 00:17:04,399
but he attempted to show himself
as an ordinary young Hungarian
43
00:17:04,441 --> 00:17:08,111
who was in touch with the way
ordinary young Hungarians are,
44
00:17:08,153 --> 00:17:10,280
that he wasn't part
of the establishment.
45
00:17:10,321 --> 00:17:13,032
He had a kind of
antiestablishment credibility.
46
00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:26,421
Jobbik's a party
that plays with rhetoric.
It plays games.
47
00:17:26,463 --> 00:17:32,177
It burns the European flag
in front of the European
Commission Building in Budapest.
48
00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:37,474
They would play with some
of the ideas of anti-Semitism
using Jewish symbols
49
00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:41,227
or implies that somehow
the Jews are responsible
without actually saying so.
50
00:17:41,269 --> 00:17:45,190
And they'll often go quite far
to saying things
and then pull back.
51
00:17:45,231 --> 00:17:48,985
In other words, it's a game
of hints and whispers
and jokes and symbols.
52
00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:10,048
Once Csanád had been elected
to the European Parliament,
53
00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:13,760
he and other MPs
and other MEPs inside Jobbik
54
00:18:13,802 --> 00:18:16,596
began to see that
if they really wanted power,
55
00:18:16,638 --> 00:18:19,182
if they really wanted to become
a ruling party in Hungary,
56
00:18:19,224 --> 00:18:21,643
if they wanted a lasting,
long political career,
57
00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:26,356
that they would have to move
away from some of the more
extreme elements in the party.
58
00:33:11,115 --> 00:33:13,367
I heard
that on the Internet
59
00:33:13,409 --> 00:33:16,662
you could find
one of the leaders
of the Jobbik Party,
60
00:33:16,704 --> 00:33:18,664
that he's Jewish,
with all the papers.
61
00:33:18,706 --> 00:33:20,541
I said listen,
that's my expertise.
62
00:33:22,918 --> 00:33:24,962
I looked through it
to see if it's real,
63
00:33:25,003 --> 00:33:27,506
and it turned out
that it was real.
64
00:33:27,548 --> 00:33:30,134
The guy is Jewish.
No question about it.
65
00:33:30,175 --> 00:33:35,055
If he would come to me now
to ask for a note
if he's Jewish,
66
00:33:35,097 --> 00:33:36,890
I would give it to him.
67
00:33:36,932 --> 00:33:43,147
So that start... You know,
it started me thinking
about him as a Jew.
68
00:33:45,733 --> 00:33:49,695
I said, hey, this has
to be an interesting
halakhic question.
69
00:33:49,737 --> 00:33:53,031
You know, what does Jewish law
say about a person
like Szegedi Csanád
70
00:33:53,073 --> 00:33:56,410
if he comes to, uh, shul,
if he comes to synagogue?
71
00:33:58,203 --> 00:34:01,290
I didn't know the answer yet,
but the question's easy.
72
00:34:01,331 --> 00:34:03,208
It's a real question.
73
00:34:05,002 --> 00:34:07,379
Tuesday morning,
imagine who called.
74
00:34:09,006 --> 00:34:11,467
I said, "No, you're teasing me."
You know?
75
00:34:12,551 --> 00:34:14,011
What did he want?
76
00:34:14,052 --> 00:34:16,346
He said he wants to meet me.
77
00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:17,848
So, what should I do?
78
00:34:55,093 --> 00:34:58,430
This was
a situation I never dreamt of.
79
00:34:58,472 --> 00:35:01,600
You know... You know,
what am I supposed to tell him?
80
00:35:19,952 --> 00:35:22,412
A lot of Jews
are very, very upset.
81
00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:27,042
"How could you sit down
with such a Jew hater?
82
00:35:27,084 --> 00:35:31,380
How could you accept him
and speak nicely to him?"
83
00:35:31,421 --> 00:35:35,050
Szegedi met with a Hungarian
Orthodox rabbi
84
00:35:35,092 --> 00:35:37,135
to apologize
for his offensive remarks
85
00:35:37,177 --> 00:35:40,138
and promised to visit Auschwitz
to pay his respects.
86
00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:43,976
Szegedi was a founding member
of the Hungarian Guard,
a pro-Nazi party.
87
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:18,468
When it
eventually came out
that Csanád really was Jewish,
88
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:21,972
the far-right Web sites
and media went crazy.
89
00:36:22,014 --> 00:36:23,807
"Well, of course
this would be true.
90
00:36:23,849 --> 00:36:27,519
The Jews are always disguising
themselves as somebody else."
91
00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,980
You know, "Naturally,
they've infiltrated everything.
92
00:36:30,022 --> 00:36:32,190
They've even infiltrated
the far right."
93
00:36:32,232 --> 00:36:35,903
Um, there were others
who thought, you know,
it's all a lie.
94
00:36:35,944 --> 00:36:37,779
Csanád was playing a game
the whole time.
95
00:36:37,821 --> 00:36:39,573
It's impossible that
he couldn't have known this.
96
00:36:40,782 --> 00:36:43,035
People on the left
in Hungary laughed.
97
00:36:43,076 --> 00:36:46,622
Obviously, there's something
absurd and something
sort of rather satisfying.
98
00:36:46,663 --> 00:36:48,665
He was pushed out
with really nothing.
99
00:36:48,707 --> 00:36:52,377
I mean, he had no obvious way
to make money.
He had no social circle.
100
00:36:52,419 --> 00:36:54,671
His whole life
had been wrapped up
in this other group of people
101
00:36:54,713 --> 00:36:56,798
from whom he was
utterly cast out.
102
00:39:03,842 --> 00:39:07,179
I'm convinced
Jewish law says
103
00:39:07,220 --> 00:39:09,431
we can accept him
and we should accept him.
104
00:39:11,391 --> 00:39:15,187
Every Jew has to be welcome
and is welcome,
105
00:39:15,228 --> 00:39:19,357
and no Jew can say, "Listen,
I want him out of here
106
00:39:19,399 --> 00:39:21,568
because I don't like him
because of his past."
107
00:39:24,738 --> 00:39:27,532
We decided that we're going
to sit with him
on a weekly basis
108
00:39:27,574 --> 00:39:30,202
and, you know...
and learn and talk.
109
00:39:33,455 --> 00:39:36,333
He had these thoughts
in his mind...
110
00:39:36,374 --> 00:39:40,796
"How can I live with the thought
that everything I did
till today was wrong?"
111
00:39:43,673 --> 00:39:46,426
I never met a person like this,
112
00:39:46,468 --> 00:39:50,847
so broke, so void of his past
and looking for a future.
113
00:39:53,141 --> 00:39:57,521
And I prayed to God, "Help me,
that I shouldn't say
anything wrong,
114
00:39:57,562 --> 00:39:59,940
but I should say
all the right things."
115
00:43:10,338 --> 00:43:14,634
There's
no smooth transition
from extreme right to normal.
116
00:43:15,927 --> 00:43:18,054
It's not just, you know,
a computer file.
117
00:43:18,096 --> 00:43:20,432
You just erase it
and write a new one.
118
00:43:20,473 --> 00:43:23,893
It's a person.
It's his mind, it's his heart,
it's his convictions,
119
00:43:23,935 --> 00:43:27,814
it's his work, it's his pride,
it's his identity...
everything together.
120
00:43:30,525 --> 00:43:37,032
He specifically asked me, "Do I
have to admit that everything
that I did and said was wrong?"
121
00:43:37,073 --> 00:43:41,328
I told him, "Listen,
there's no reason
not to face the facts.
122
00:43:41,369 --> 00:43:46,750
If you come to the conclusion
that you were wrong,
you have to admit it."
123
00:43:46,791 --> 00:43:51,546
But he doesn't understand
exactly yet how bad,
124
00:43:51,588 --> 00:43:52,964
uh, how wrong he was.
125
00:47:34,769 --> 00:47:39,357
When you have a regime
that has been lying for 50 years
126
00:47:39,399 --> 00:47:41,568
and which everybody knows
is lying,
127
00:47:41,609 --> 00:47:45,989
that means that you create
a generation of people who no
longer know what's really true.
128
00:47:47,574 --> 00:47:50,326
There's no agreement
about what history is.
129
00:47:52,954 --> 00:47:56,958
In that atmosphere, the truth
is often hidden or disguised.
130
00:47:58,126 --> 00:48:01,921
Just be quiet, withdraw, convert.
131
00:48:01,963 --> 00:48:04,966
You know, become mainstream.
Try and fit in.
132
00:54:55,167 --> 00:54:58,462
Every day he's working
on changing his identity
133
00:54:58,504 --> 00:55:00,506
and strengthening
his new identity.
134
00:55:01,966 --> 00:55:04,719
He says he wants to be part
of the Jewish community.
135
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,847
Fine. He can.
But he still has a job.
136
00:55:07,888 --> 00:55:11,517
He has to, uh, apologize.
137
00:55:11,559 --> 00:55:16,939
But apologize meaning publicly,
and also, more importantly,
fix what he harmed.
138
00:55:30,786 --> 00:55:33,330
Eins, zwei, drei,
vier, fĂĽnf.
139
00:55:33,372 --> 00:55:35,041
Thank you.
140
00:55:35,082 --> 00:55:36,167
Shalom.
141
00:57:06,507 --> 00:57:08,926
To be honest,
I'm not quite sure.
142
00:57:08,968 --> 00:57:12,763
Uh, should I believe him
or should I not believe him?
143
00:57:12,805 --> 00:57:15,724
How can somebody so extremely
change his position?
144
00:57:38,706 --> 00:57:41,458
It's really hard for me
to see him here
145
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:44,086
right in the middle of us.
146
00:57:44,128 --> 00:57:49,091
See him standing
and talking to us
and telling us, "I'm a Jew.
147
00:57:49,133 --> 00:57:53,804
I'm a real Jew. Believe me.
I'm proud to be Jewish."
148
00:57:53,846 --> 00:57:55,514
I really don't believe him.
149
00:59:25,646 --> 00:59:28,107
There's a concept
in Judaism about teshuva...
150
00:59:28,148 --> 00:59:30,734
repentance.
151
00:59:30,776 --> 00:59:36,323
God gives every person
the ability to repent,
152
00:59:36,365 --> 00:59:40,452
and Maimonides says
repentance means, uh...
153
00:59:40,494 --> 00:59:42,663
what shall we say... regret
154
00:59:42,705 --> 00:59:47,209
the bad deeds of the past
155
00:59:47,251 --> 00:59:50,838
to make a strong commitment
for the future.
156
01:17:54,545 --> 01:17:56,756
Coming from the extreme right
157
01:17:56,798 --> 01:18:00,134
to the point where he is now
is a very long way.
158
01:18:03,054 --> 01:18:07,558
He feels bad for the things
that he did in the past.
It's not enough.
159
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:11,646
It has to become a lecture
that he will repeat
again and again and again.
160
01:18:11,687 --> 01:18:16,401
That I was wrong,
Jobbik was wrong,
and anti-Semitism is wrong.
161
01:18:17,902 --> 01:18:20,822
So is he finished?
No, he's not finished.
162
01:18:20,863 --> 01:18:23,950
But is he... is he going
in the right direction?
Absolutely.
163
01:20:36,749 --> 01:20:40,962
A year and a half
ago, Csanád was the king
of the anti-Semites.
164
01:20:41,003 --> 01:20:44,340
Now Csanád wants to be
the king of the Semites.
165
01:20:44,382 --> 01:20:47,301
Montreal is the single Jewish
community outside of Israel
166
01:20:47,343 --> 01:20:49,971
with the largest percentage
of survivors.
167
01:20:50,012 --> 01:20:53,683
Bringing a guy like Csanád
is really deeply insensitive.
168
01:20:53,724 --> 01:20:58,479
The soul, whether you
want to look at the religious
viewpoint or in general,
169
01:20:58,521 --> 01:21:02,108
is a very interesting piece
of equipment, and we don't know.
170
01:21:02,149 --> 01:21:04,151
Nobody can look
into somebody else's soul.
171
01:21:04,193 --> 01:21:08,197
I represent 600,000 Jews
who've been killed.
172
01:21:08,239 --> 01:21:12,785
I am represent the people,
including my family, my parents,
173
01:21:12,827 --> 01:21:16,497
who'd been killed
by a Hungarian Nazi.
174
01:21:16,539 --> 01:21:19,750
And there's
always anti-Semitism
under various guises.
175
01:21:19,792 --> 01:21:24,547
You know what they say. If it
walks like a duck and it sounds
like a duck, must be a duck.
176
01:22:23,189 --> 01:22:24,774
All kosher.
177
01:24:24,226 --> 01:24:29,482
Mr. Szegedi was the poster boy
in Central Europe
178
01:24:29,523 --> 01:24:31,817
of anti-Semitism.
179
01:24:31,859 --> 01:24:35,738
He was vice president
of the Jobbik Nazi party,
180
01:24:35,780 --> 01:24:42,119
and during that time,
he never missed an opportunity
to express his anti-Semitism.
181
01:24:42,161 --> 01:24:44,497
We Jews believe in teshuva.
182
01:24:44,538 --> 01:24:49,001
We have to give every person
a chance of repentance.
183
01:24:49,043 --> 01:24:54,048
He created an atmosphere,
an anti-Semite atmosphere,
in the city,
184
01:24:54,089 --> 01:24:57,551
that when you say,
"You dirty Jew,"
it's just like saying hello.
185
01:24:58,594 --> 01:25:00,346
My part of the story is
186
01:25:00,387 --> 01:25:03,057
that I decided
give him a chance.
187
01:25:03,098 --> 01:25:05,726
That's what Judaism
teaches us.
188
01:25:05,768 --> 01:25:08,187
Love every Jew.
Give him a chance.
189
01:25:11,148 --> 01:25:13,734
I really believe
I will never become
an anti-Semite.
190
01:25:15,361 --> 01:25:17,029
Okay? So, please,
don't scream at me.
191
01:25:22,451 --> 01:25:24,203
He's an anti-Semite Jew.
192
01:25:24,245 --> 01:25:26,705
Used to be.
193
01:25:26,747 --> 01:25:28,457
He used to be.
He was an anti-Semite...
194
01:25:47,142 --> 01:25:49,436
What do you call
a real Jew?
195
01:25:49,478 --> 01:25:51,355
Is he eating kosher?
Yes.
196
01:25:51,397 --> 01:25:54,817
Is he... Is he praying?
He puts on the tefillin?
197
01:25:54,859 --> 01:25:56,068
Yes.
198
01:25:58,696 --> 01:26:01,156
Then I'll tell you something.
199
01:26:01,198 --> 01:26:04,118
Besides being a Nazi,
he became a Nazi Jew.
200
01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:07,288
Could be, could be,
but this type of Nazi
I like.
201
01:26:17,965 --> 01:26:22,261
In the case
of Csanád, there will always be
a question of what's true.
202
01:26:22,303 --> 01:26:25,639
Anybody who makes that
kind of... identify shift
203
01:26:25,681 --> 01:26:29,059
from, you know,
far right to Orthodox Jew,
will always be questioned,
204
01:26:29,101 --> 01:26:33,814
and people will always have
some doubt about what he says.
205
01:26:33,856 --> 01:26:37,151
He himself says that he feels
that he's a better person
206
01:26:37,192 --> 01:26:39,528
now that he's being honest
about who he is,
207
01:26:39,570 --> 01:26:42,531
but, um, you know,
maybe that's just another game.
208
01:27:45,719 --> 01:27:48,222
You have to love
every Jew,
209
01:27:48,263 --> 01:27:49,723
no matter how wicked.
210
01:27:50,724 --> 01:27:54,311
Well, I found a very wicked one.
211
01:27:54,353 --> 01:27:57,982
You see, it's... You know,
you have to love every Jew,
and you have to try to help him
212
01:27:58,023 --> 01:28:01,193
in the way you have to love
every person and try to help.
213
01:28:01,235 --> 01:28:04,279
If you're able to...
to help somebody,
214
01:28:04,321 --> 01:28:06,073
you have no right
not to help him.
215
01:28:10,494 --> 01:28:16,250
It wasn't an easy decision,
but I felt it was
the right decision.
216
01:28:16,291 --> 01:28:17,668
And, um...
217
01:28:17,710 --> 01:28:20,254
I, uh, really hope
and I really believe
218
01:28:20,295 --> 01:28:23,841
that I will not be, um, disappointed.
219
01:28:25,926 --> 01:28:28,345
I pray... I pray that
I shouldn't be disappointed.
18486
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