All language subtitles for The Thin Blue Line [1988] (Errol Morris) [Criterion #753] [BDRip 1080p]-ENG

In October, my brother and I left Ohio.

We were driving to California.

We got into Dallas on a Thursday night.

Friday morning,
while I'm eating eggs...

and drinking coffee,
I get a good job.

I mean, all these people...

are supposedly out of work.

I'm not in town a half a day,
and I've got a job.

Everything clicked.
It's as if I was meant to be here.

I'd run away from home
a couple times.

Once or twice. I don't know.

And this all started -
“David is running away from home.”

I took a pistol of my dad's,
and a shotgun.

Took a neighbor's car.

I think I'd broken into their house
and got the keys.

I forget exactly what it was.

Ended up coming to Dallas.

Being a weekend, sometimes
they worked, sometimes they didn't.

On the way home,
I ran out of gas.

And as I was walking
down the street with the gas can...

a person at that time
pulled over...

and I guess
since I had the gas can...

he figured I was out of gas...

but I wasn't
a hundred yards from the car.

And being Thanksgiving weekend,
there was no gas stations open.

So he stopped and asked me
if I needed any help.

I'd just turned 16.

And there was a guy over there,
I think he 'd run out of gas.

I took him to get some gas.
This was Randall Adams.

Ended up following him to his room...

where him and his brother were staying.

Eventually, that evening -
that afternoon, that evening -

we went out and got some beer
and what have you...

and we smoked a little marijuana
and what have you.

Went to a movie that night.

I get up.
I go to work on Saturday.

Why did I meet this kid?
I don't know.

Why did I run out of gas at that time?
I don't know.

But it happened.
lthappened.

The day they picked me up...

December 21st...

they took me upstairs -
what floor, I don't know -

but they put me in a little room.

Gus Rose walked in.

He had a confession there
he wanted rne to sign.

He, uh...

said that I would sign it.

He didn't give a damn what I said.
I would sign this piece of paper he's got.

I told him I couldn't.

You know...

“I don't know what the hell
you people expect of me...

but there's no way
I could sign that.”

He left.
He came back in 10 minutes...

and threw a pistol on the table.

Asked me to look at it.

Which I did. I looked.

He asked me to pick it up.

I told him no, I wouldn't do that.

He threatened me.

Again I told him no.

He pulled his service revolver on me.

We looked at each other for -

to me, it seemed hours.

I do not like looking down
the barrel of a pistol.

I do not like being threatened.

When he finally saw that
he would either have to kill me...

or forget the signature,
I guess he forgot the signature...

because he put his pistol up.

He took the pistol on the table...

put it up, and stormed out.

I had what I call a casual, friendly
conversation with him to start with...

to try to size him up...

to see what he liked
and what he didn't like...

and, uh“.

I found almost immediately that
he didn't have very much conscience...

that anything he had done,
he never -

It never really bothered him.

He had done other things
he told me about...

that didn't seem
to bother him in the least.

He showed
no expression whatsoever.

It's just like that he's sitting here...

talking about the color
of this wall...

or the shooting
of the police officer.

He showed no -

no reaction
to any of the questions.

He, of course, uh...

almost overacted his innocence.

He protested that
he hadn't done anything...

and couldn't imagine
why we were bringing him in.

He didn't fight or he didn't resist.

He just protested his innocence.

I, of course, told them...

what happened that Saturday,
that I had met this kid.

I kept telling them the same thing,
the same thing, the same thing.

They didn't want to believe me.

Never once
was I allowed a phone call.

Never once
was an attorney there.

I don't know
how long this had been.

I know I had smoked
two packs of cigarettes...

and had been out for a long time.

Wood didn't take
his ticket book out of the car.

He left it on the front seat...

which indicates
he was not going to write a ticket.

What he was probably gonna do is
tell 'em to turn on their headlights.

He didn't know
that the car was stolen.

I think
there's a very good chance...

he was gonna check
the driver's license...

tell him to turn on his headlights
and let the guy be on his way.

Officer Wood's wife
had purchased him...

a bulletproof vest
and had it under the Christmas tree...

or had it stored away
to give to him at Christmastime.

His partner was one of the first...

female police officers
that was assigned to patrol.

They were out of
the northwest station.

Just patrol officers following the clock...

working the graveyard shift
and everything.

They had been
into a fast-food restaurant...

and she had a malt.

This car came by,
just two dudes in it. ..

With no lights on.

It wasn't a serious problem,
but he just pulled up...

turned his lights on to stop him,
just to warn the man...

that his lights were off.

Got out of the car and walked up...

and before he got to the window
where the driver was -

he was in the right position -
this man turned around...

and just “pop, pop, pop”
with a little small-caliber pistol.

The first shot hit him in the arm.

He had his flashlight.
It hit the flashlight, as I recall...

and went into his arm,
and the next one hit him in the chest.

The officer falls in the street,
in the first traffic lane.

Lay there and bled to death.

So she's out of the car.

She empties her pistol
at the fleeing suspect...

and she runs to his aid.

Procedure says you grab the radio
and call for an ambulance.

Common sense will tell you that.
But what do you do?

And at that time,
she's so just tore down.

And blood -
an enormous amount of blood.

So I don't know.
How do we hold her -

How do we hold her responsible
for not following procedure?

But the main thing was,
she couldn't remember the license number.

When we started
putting the facts together...

on how much information
we actually had...

with the leads we had,
to find out what we had...

we found out
we didn't have anything.

The only thing we knew
we were looking for was a blue Vega.

Probably every Vega
that was registered...

in the state of Texas
was stopped and checked.

We had people
calling the office, saying...

“I've got a Vega, and it's not blue,
but would you come out and be sure?

Check it over,
be sure it's not mine...

because I don't want
to get stopped anymore.

I'm afraid.”

If you're the investigator
assigned to the murder -

You get frustrated
with other witnesses...

but when you got
a police officer that witnessed it...

you expect that they would know
a little more than she knew.

Procedure,
when ifs a two-person unit'...

when either one approaches a car,
the other positions himself...

to the right rear, where they can
watch all the activity in the car.

And if the man on the left
of the driver gets in trouble...

the partner's
in a position to help.

Speculation was, at the time...

that his partner
was sitting in the car.

That's where the discrepancies were.

Just a matter of time and Whether
or not she was out of the car...

completely out
or partially in the car...

or just sitting in there
with the door closed.

And the thing I think we did then
that really helped -

Really, it didn't really help at all.

Let me back up.
But it was interesting...

and it cost a lot of money,
but it was worthwhile.

You got to cover every trail.

A guy out of California -

I don't recall his name -
an expert in hypnosis, came in...

hypnotized her and questioned her.

The thing that was interesting - she couldn't
remember anything particularly about the car.

She remembered getting a malt.
They stopped in the fast-food.

Think it was a Whataburger. They remembered
that. Remembered stopping the car.

When they got back on the road,
she didn't remember anything...

but she remembered a license number
off a hit-and-run vehicle...

that they had worked
earlier in the night.

It was getting
awfully close to Christmas.

We'd never gone that long in Dallas
without clearing the murder of an officer.

We'd had several killed,
but We'd always cleared them pretty quick.

And this case had gone a month,
or nearly a month...

and we still hadn't cleared it.

However, we finally got the break that
cleared it that came out of Vidor, Texas.

Mr. Calvin Cunningham,
who lives here in Vidor...

had his home broken into...

and his little
Mercury Comet stolen.

We felt as though David
had committed that crime.

For several days, though, he was missing.
We couldn't find him.

It was one afternoon, one of our officers
spotted Mr. Cunningham's car...

on North Main Street here in Vidor.

David abandoned the vehicle
and ran on foot.

We started getting
little bits of information, though...

that David had been involved
in a shooting in Dallas of a police officer.

We would always get
third-hand rumor, fourth-hand rumor.

So we went back
to a few of his other...

“comrades in crime”
I guess we would call them.

They said, “Well, yeah.

We thought he was just bragging.
We didn't really take him seriously.”

Sitting down, watching
the evening news - well, the night news.

My father was asleep
on the couch.

Heard somebody knocking at the door.
Answered the door, and it was David Harris.

I let him in. He was standing
beside the chair I was sitting in...

and a news broadcast advertised...

about a police officer
being shot in Dallas.

Right then and there,
he starts swearing up and down.

He says, “I swear to God
I shot that fucking pig.

I'm the one that killed him.”

Somewhere around Dallas
they got pulled over.

I think he said because
they was checking out a stolen car.

And he said that the cop
had pulled him over...

and walked up to the window,
and when the cop come...

he rolled down the window
and pulled the gun up and, pow, shot him.

He swore up and down.

He made a big scene about it.
Jumped up and down...

trying to get anybody
and everybody to listen to him.

“Yeah, I shot that son of a gun.”

And everybody -
“Sure you did, David. Sure.”

“I swear to God I killed that cop.”

I asked him
if he'd been to Dallas...

and he denied
having been to Dallas.

I asked him if he'd been involved
in any shooting...

or knew anything about a shooting,
and he denied that to the end.

Which was fairly consistent with David.
Even if he had some involvement...

his first way that he always treats you,
he would deny.

Then, if he felt
you really knew he had done it...

he would be truthful with you.

He give me a pistol,
a .22-caliber pistol.

He's showing it to me, he says,
“That's the one I shot him with right here.”

He gave me the pistol.
You know, I didn't-

I didn't really consider it that much.

I don't guess I really realized
he did shoot the cop.

He led me to a swampy area...

several hundred yards
behind his residence in Rose City.

There was a sock underwater.
He sa/b', “There if is. ”

And he had sprayed this sock
with boot oil.

When we retrieved the gun, I said,
“I better do something. it's gonna rust up.”

But even the time later that I saw
the gun at the trial in Dallas...

it looked as good as when
I'd taken it out of the swamp,

so he had taken care of it,
though he put it underwater.

He got to thinking, “Well, hey...

I didn't do that,
and I've been saying that I did...

and I'm in over my head now,
so I better tell them what really happened.

Because they're going to send me
to the penitentiary for life...

if I don't tell them
what really happened.”

So he said,
“Hey, I'm just bragging about this.

I didn't do it, but I was there,
and I know who did do it.”

And of course,
he came clean then.

He tried to hide no facts...

and he just seemed
like a friendly kid.

I may have talked to him
15 or 20 minutes...

just on a friendly basis
just to, uh -

just to keep him friendly.

You know, we didn't want
to make him mad...

but we didn't want him to tell us
something that he thought.

We wanted him to tell us
what we knew.

It wasn't very long till I realized
that what he knew...

was the facts of the case,
and it matched perfectly...

with what we knew,
and it had to be right.

The story that I told was...

it was like 12:00-something...

so it was the next day...

early in the morning.

We were stopped...

and, uh, when we were stopped...

the officer came up to the car...

and asked to see his driver's license,
and he just started shooting.

I don't know why,
but it's always seemed...

like time just stopped
or something, you know.

I mean, it didn't seem
like any time passed, you know.

Just seemed like it was -

Boom.
Time stopped or something.

I don't know what it is.

You know, uh-

it's like a flash.

We went back to his room.

He was supposed
to ask his brother...

if I could stay there that night,
but he said...

his brother don't like
to do that or something.

Anyhow, he went in and never
came back out, so I left.

Ended up pulling into a parking lot.

I slept there, I think, for a while...

and then, finally, the next morning,
early or something...

I found my way
to the freeway, the 45...

and went back home.

After riding around with him,
come to find out, yeah, he's got an arsenal.

He's got pistols.

He's got rifles, you know.

He's got this pistol.
He's waving it around. He's doing this.

I told him, “Hey, why don't you put
those in the trunk of the car?”

We stopped at a restaurant...

and ordered
and ate sandwiches in the car.

I bought a six-pack of beer.

He pulled this pistol back out.

And I asked him
why he got the pistol out...

and he, you know,
kind of laughed...

rolled the window down,
and fired the pistol outside the car.

And I asked him
to please put it up.

And I think he handed me the pistol,
and I put it under the driver's seat.

He wanted to go to the movies,
so we went to the movies.

We got there
probably about 7:00.

He was the one
that had picked the movie out.

I call them drive-in movies
“beer-drinking movies.”

Fifty cents, put 'em together
and make a bunch of money...

with a bunch of people
getting drunk at the drive-in.

- Are you going to concede to my point?
- Please sit down.

- What is this, Mr. Brooks?
- Anybody can plainly see it's an ashtray.

Wrong! Anyone can plainly see
it's a wall-breaker!

I'm trying to speak for you!

I'm trying to speak for all of you!

I am the student body!

JV'

The show that was on
was about half over.

We watched half of the one show.

We started watching
the first part of the second show.

We want a victory...

and we're gonna get it.

We want a victory,
and we're gonna get it.

Ya)', team!

We want a victory,
and we're gonna get it.

Yay, Mesa!

I didn't really care
for the second feature, which is -

you know, it's an R-rated
cheerleader-type thing.

I don't know what it was.

May I have some wine?

f!

It's good, Ross.
I didn't know you could cook.

It is good, isn't it?

You ought to try
my celery rémoulade.

JV'

No.

I told him I wanted to leave.

“I don't really care to sit here
and watch this. Let's go.”

So he's acting kind of strange...

'cause he wanted to watch
the end of the movie.

Anyway, we left...

and We drove back
towards Dallas. ..

And we drove to the motel.

There's a little store.

I bought a pack of cigarettes
and a newspaper.

And when I left,
this kid was still sitting there.

I leaned against the car,
and we talked to him for a few minutes...

and I told him that since
he was looking for a job...

and there hadn't been
anybody there at work...

that if he wanted to stop back
Monday morning...

that, sure, he could ride out
and follow me to work...

and talk to the boss,
and he would probably get a job.

I told him that I would catch him
Monday morning if he showed up.

Told him what time I went to work.
Why, I left...

and walked around the store
and went to the house.

When I walked in...

the television was on,
and my brother was sleeping.

He had been home this whole time
that I had been gone.

So I made me a sandwich...

and sat there and watched the end of
The Carol Burnett Show.

When it went off, the news came on...

and I watched 15, 20 minutes of the news.

And that was it.
I turned the TV off and went to sleep.

Finally, they bring in a stenographer.

She sits down,
and I run the story.

I tell them
what happened this Saturday.

She leaves and she types.

She comes back
in about 25, 30 minutes...

with a copy of this statement.

I read through it. ..

And when it was
basically what I liked...

yes, I signed it.

He admits driving the car...

and taking a right on lnwood Road...

off of, uh, Interstate 35 -

or Highway 183.

He admits driving it,
but he says...

after he made his right turn
on lnwood Road...

this is where our statement ends.

He says he does not remember
anything after that.

He didn't remember
anything about a shooting.

He didn't remember
anything about...

a police officer
stopping him or anything.

That part of his mind just...

conveniently went blank.

He remembered driving the car,
and he remembered...

approaching the scene
of the shooting...

and from that point,
he blacks out and can't remember...

until he gets to the motel room
some 10 minutes later.

Everything else
he remembers vividly...

and that's just a convenient
memory lapse, is all that is.

The Morning News in Dallas County...

stated that I had signed
a confession...

that I had confessed
to the killing of Robert Wood...

and they had their killer,
and they were ready to go with it.

The statement that I signed
for Dallas County...

was never
and never would have been...

anything as “a confession,” quote.

But yet they labeled it as such.

Of course, I couldn't dispute this
because I didn't even know about it.

I heard no news.
I knew nothing for two weeks.

They kept me completely
away from everybody.

Several times we talked to her,
trying to get her to recall.

“Do you recall the license number?

Do you recall anything
that'll help us?”

She gave us a pretty good
description of the car.

It turned out her description
of the car was real close.

It comes out that
we weren't looking for a blue Vega.

We were looking for a Comet.

No telling the man-hours
we literally wasted...

looking for a blue Vega.

There's a difference
between a Vega and a Mercury Comet.

So in reality,
in regard to cars...

every piece of information
that was called in...

they were calling in regard to a Comet -
I mean, a Vega.

The people that called in
were truthful, trying to help.

They really were trying to help.

We just all had
the wrong information.

There wasn't a mark on this car
David Harris had stolen.

Wasn't a mark.

Do you think a car sitting still...

starting from a stop...

heading up a hill...

with a woman
standing right behind it...

that is a very good shot
with a pistol -

She should have hit the damn thing
one time. She didn't.

I wish she would've blown
whoever was driving the car's head off...

'cause I wouldn't have been here.

I went back several times,
and with Mr. Cunningham...

he and I both searched...

and could find no indications
that that car had been...

hit by any type gunfire.

Later on,
he finally found one place...

that he felt as though a bullet
had been creased on it.

But before he could tell me about it,
his daughter totaled the car out.

Totally demolished it.

I was doing burglaries
and some robberies...

and, uh“.

A few possession cases
and stuff like that.

I think he just
came up to me and said...

“Are you Edith James?
I'd like to talk to you about my case.”

That's the way
I remember it, anyhow.

And I said,
“Sure. What sort of a case is it?”

He said, “lt's a capital murder.”
And I said, “Eeeewwww!”

Inside, I kind of thought,
“I've never done one...

but I can surely
talk to him about it. ”

I hate to be considered...

some kind of a dummy...

that believes in the innocence
of her clients, whatever.

A lot of people think,
“A woman lawyer...

she's bound to stupidly believe
anything she's told.”

And I admit
I'm sort of a gullible person.

But on the other hand,
I've seen an awful lot of people...

who admitted guilt
or were found guilty...

and all but Randall...

turned out to be guilty,
in my opinion.

Douglas Mulder
had a perfect win record.

I believe he resigned
from the D.A.'s office without any defeats.

That's why he's legendary.

Everything, as I recall,
that Mulder ever said...

was about what a great guy
Mulder was...

and how marvelous it was
that he was getting...

all these lovely convictions.

I wanted
somebody else in on it...

so I got Dennis interested in it...

because Dennis has
a lot more trial experience...

and Dennis wins
practically all of his jury cases.

And Dennis was very enthusiastic
about the Randall Adams case...

'cause he kept saying,
“This is one we can win.

They don't have substantial evidence.
All they've got is this David Harris.”

I prepared a motion
for a continuance...

to get more time to try the case...

and in doing that,
I had to lay out my whole schedule...

for the next several weeks as to
exactly what time I'd be in Vidor, Texas.

V/dor is headquarters
of the K u K/ux Klan for the state of Texas.

It's a city where black people
will not spend the night.

Black people won't even stop there
to get their car filled with gasoline.

And furthermore, the people of Vidor
were under the impression...

that the policeman
that was murdered was a black man.

I had to slop
at a motel on the way.

My wife and I stayed in one room,
the lady lawyer in another.

We arranged to get up early
to go on to Vidor...

and start our investigation.

At about 6:00 in the morning...

Edith James,
the lady lawyer, got up...

and was looking for me.

While she went out in the parking lot
to find me, she went to one room...

and someone
in the parking lot said...

“lf you're looking for the lawyer
from Dallas, he's in room -”

and gave her the room number.

I immediately began to suspect
from the time I was that close to Vidor...

that I was being
followed and observed.

Doug Mulder had been there
the week before I had...

and had told the people in Vidor...

I was an Eastern-educated
civil liberties attorney...

and that I was down there
to discredit David Harris.

And then I'd been recommended
to see one particular policeman...

who had been led
to the solution of this case.

And I had the impression
that he was...

the one honest policeman
I could trust...

in Vidor.

He told me that
after the policeman was killed...

David Harris went back to Vidor.

But before he was arrested...

he committed a robbery
down there and had someone...

on the floor of a 7-Eleven-type store
with a shotgun at their throat.

Got back there...

robbed an O'Bannion's 7-Eleven
with a .22 rifle.

Committed some other burglaries
and what have you.

And all this time I was on probation,
juvenile probation.

Eventually I turned myself in
for this stuff in Vidor.

Think I made a confession
or something.

I can't even remember, exactly.
So I'm told I did.

He told us he had robbed stores,
and we laughed.

“Sure, sure.
We know you have.”

I gave him one of my hats...

this old Bonnie-and-Clyde-looking hat
you turn sideways.

We said, “We'II draw you a little mustache.
Walk in with that gun.

Nobody'II know who you are.”

About 2:00 that morning,
I was asleep, and the phone rang.

I said, “Hello?”
He said, “This is David.”

“David Harris?” He said,
“Yeah, I did it. Will you come get me?”

“I'm not coming to get you.
I'm asleep.”

He didn't have a conscience,
you know.

If I do something bad,
it kind of gets to me.

I feel, “Shucks,
I shouldn't have done that.

I feel bad about it.”

It didn't bother him.

Didn't bother him at all.

We asked the D.A. in Vidor, Texas...

what they were gonna do
with little David...

and they said, “We'll send him
to the Texas Youth Council.”

We sort of tried to inquire,
didn't he think it was strange...

that there was a robbery committed
with that same pistol?

And here it was
David Harris's pistol...

David Harris's automobile
that picked up Randall Adams.

Didn't he think it was a little odd
that all the utensils...

for committing
this so-called murder...

were furnished by David Harris,
who got off scat-free...

and was being a witness
for the prosecution?

All he said was, “Well, ho-hum.

We don't feel that way
in Vidor, Texas.

Our people just are not that -
We're not that keen...

on ruining a young man's life.”

I tried to introduce
the crime-spree theory...

the theory that David Harris
was on this series of crimes...

both before and after
the killing of the policeman.

That he would be
the person who had the -

the heart filled with malice,
most apt to commit a murder.

But the judge would not allow me
to introduce any of those crimes.

They had a 28-year-old man.

The only alternative would be
prosecuting a 16-year-old...

that could not be given
the death penalty under Texas law...

where our 28-year-old man could.

That's always been
the predominant motive, in my opinion...

for having a death-penalty case
against Randall Adams.

Not that they had him
so dead to rights...

but just that he was
a convenient age.

The judge is supposed to have said -

that's Metcalfe, Don Metcalfe -
is supposed to have said...

to Jeanette White,
Dennis White's wife...

“What do you care?
He's only a drifter.”

I grew up in a family
where I was taught...

a great respect
for law enforcement...

and became acutely aware
of the dangers...

that police officers go through,
law enforcement officials go through...

that I think much of the public
is not really sensitive to.

My father was an FBI man...

probably at the worst possible time
to be in the FBI.

It was from 1932 to 1935
in Chicago.

He was at the Biograph Theater
the night that Dillinger was killed.

It was a hot summer evening.

Little air conditioning in Chicago,
and people were out for a walk.

My father would tell me
that when Dillinger was killed...

within a matter of two minutes...

people were dipping
their handkerchiefs in the blood...

to get souvenirs.

And he vividly remembered
one lady who -

all she had was a newspaper -
held it up and said...

“I bet I'm the only lady from Kansas City
with John Dillinger's blood.”

He told me the Woman in Red,
she had on an orange dress.

This is trivia, okay?

It looked red under the lights.
He said it was really orange.

She got to be known as the Lady in Red
that fingered Dillinger.

He said,
“It was really the Lady in Orange.”

As her reward,
she got a new fur coat...

and a one-way ticket
back to her native Romania.

His whole story from the start...

was two hours late.

I met this kid
at around 10:00 in the morning.

He says we met at noon.

I say we were
at the Bronco Bowl...

at 2:00 or 3:00.

He says it was 5:00 or 6:00.

Everything that we did coincide with,
he was two hours late.

Two hours later.

Two hours into the night.

His testimony is that...

as we were getting off the freeway
on Inwood Avenue...

he stated that I'm driving the car...

that we're pulled over...

he gets scared,
and he slumps down...

in the seat of the car.

That as the officer walks up...

and shines his flashlight...

and I roll down my window...

I pull the pistol out
and blow this man away.

His testimony is...

when I finally do drive
to the motel...

I get out, I tell him...

“Don't worry about it.
Forget this ever happened.”

Now, that's crazy.
That's crazy.

The police officer
was killed at 12:30...

which is about 2 1/2 hours
after he last saw me.

Just before he went into the motel. ..

He'd gone
across the motel courtyard...

to a little store over there
and bought some cigarettes.

And I was supposed to go and find out
if the man remembered him...

coming in there just before 10:00
to buy the cigarettes.

Well, I didn't get over there
to Fort Worth for a long time.

We got some pictures
from his family...

that didn't show him in jail clothes...

and I took the pictures in
to show them...

to the man behind the counter.

He was very cooperative,
and he wanted to help us...

but he honestly - he said,
“I don't remember anything...

about this guy coming in there.

I couldn't tell one night from another.
It might've been that night...

or any other, 'cause they were
always coming in for cigarettes.”

His brother...

at first was saying...

that at the time of the murder...

that he was home watching...

I believe it was
a wrestling match on TV.

And he said...

“Me and my brother likes wrestling
matches, and he was here with me.

Randall, my brother,
was with me all night long.

He couldn't have done it.”

He was trying to cover for his brother.

Later, as I recall, he changed...

because he said, “Well, hey...

if I get down there
and perjure myself...

there's nothing that they can do
because they've got the case -”

this is the way
I think that he thought -

“They know
that my brother did it...

and if I get up there and lie...

then they're gonna
have me for perjury...

and I'll be in the penitentiary with him,
and it ain't gonna do any good anyway.

So I just ain't gonna testify.
I ain't gonna say nothing.”

So he backed off
of his story completely...

and Adams was left
without any witnesses.

Her in-court testimony...

and her original statement -
which should be the best.

I mean, you're talking
15, 20 minutes after the killing.

Should be the best
eyewitness testimony she's got.

It doesn't match.
Doesn't match at all.

In court, she testified...

he got out of the car,
she got out of the car.

She positioned herself
at the back of the automobile.

Her original statement,
15 minutes after the killing -

“A fur-lined collar on the killer.”

In court, “Well, it might
have been bushy hair.”

The kid testified
that I had a Levi jacket on...

which is the same type collar
or basically the same as this.

He testified at pre-trial
that he had a fur-lined parka.

She's telling you
who killed the man -

one person in the car
with the fur-lined collar.

Very convenient that the driver
happened to have bushy hair.

All she's got to do is look
at a picture they took of me.

But that is not
her original statement.

It's a hell of a big difference
from “a fur-lined collar” to “bushy hair.”

It's crazy. It's crazy.

She went through
two weeks' Internal Affairs.

When she comes out,
her testimony changes.

She goes in saying one thing.
She comes out saying another.

Something happened. What?

“Oh, well,
we refreshed her memory.”

Friday afternoon,
I think it was Good Friday...

we came back in the courtroom
that afternoon...

and we were sort of elated
because we thought...

“Well, he's gonna walk.

And there's nothing really
in that evidence.

There's just little David Harris,
and nobody believes him.”

And so we were very optimistic
about his chances...

until we walked into the courtroom,
and here were all these people...

standing in front of the bench -
three of 'em, anyway.

They were taking the oath
to be sworn as witnesses.

Mrs. Miller got on the stand
that last afternoon...

and she said,
“That's the man! I saw that man!

I saw Randall Adams's face
just right after -”

She said,
“I saw the gun sticking out of the car...

when he shot that police officer,
and that's the man.”

And she waved her finger
right toward Randall Adams.

She's the one
that got him convicted.

When I was a kid,
I used to want to be a detective.

I used to watch
all the detective shows on TV.

When I was a kid, they used to show
these movies with Boston Blackie...

and he always had a woman with him.

I wanted to be a wife of a detective
or be a detective...

so I always watched
detective stories.

I'm always looking,
because I never know...

what might come up
or how I could help.

I like to help
in situations like that.

I really do.

It's always happening to me
everywhere I go.

Lots of times
there's killings or anything.

Even around my house.
Wherever.

I'm always looking or getting involved
to find out who did it or what's going on.

I listen to people,
and I'm always trying to decide...

who's lying or who killed who
before the police do.

See if I can beat 'em.

Yeah.

I was working at a gas station...

my husband and I both.

We weren't getting along
well at all.

We were arguing back and forth.

This is why
we didn't want to go home.

We would rather talk in the car
than go home with the kids and fight.

Had to listen to them too.

So we were really arguing,
and we decided to get something to eat.

About that time, a police came out of a
restaurant on the right-hand side of the road...

and he went
to pull the man over.

She turned around.
She was looking hard. She looked.

And I didn't think she seen the guy,
but she did.

I said, “What you looking at?”
I knew something had went wrong.

She said,
“Just shut up and drive.”

And I kept telling my husband,
“Slow down, slow down, so I can see.”

And he said, “No. Come on.
We're getting out of here.

You're too nosy. You don't need
to know what's going on.”

I had no idea that somebody
gonna get killed or shot...

so I just drove on.

He was one of these kind that
don't like getting involved in nothing.

He wanted to go on.

He told me to shut up,
turn around, don't look.

I turned around
and looked anyway.

So we heard something like...

backfire or firecrackers,
something...

and so we drove over the bridge,
and I got to thinking.

I said, “Em, there're no firecrackers
this time of the year.”

I was thinking to myself...

“That couldn't be somebody shooting.”

It was real dark,
and it was cold.

It was hard to see in that car.

But see, his window was down.

The driver's window was down.

This is how
I got such a good look.

I really couldn't see anything inside.

It was kind of-you know,
shadows on the window and stuff.

But when he rolled down the window was what
made his face stand out. The car was dark blue.

He had a beard, mustache...

kind of dishwater-blond hair.

But like I said, when he was in court,
he sure look a lot different.

I could just tell by this and this
that it was him.

I knew that there was
some shots over there...

but I didn't want to be
involved in it.

'Cause West Dallas is a high-crime neighborhood.
One of the biggest.

He was more scared of it
than I was.

But see, when you have
black people like that...

they don't like
getting involved in nothing.

That's just common.
Like here.

Nobody wants
to see nothing or hear nothing.

And they'll stay completely
in the background.

That's why they were having
such a hard time over there...

finding anybody
that would come forward -

because it was
in a totally black neighborhood.

No, she just believe in...

see somebody doing something wrong,
she'd sure tell it.

'Cause she told on me...

uh, a couple times.

She said that I was...

hauling drugs out of El Paso.

Called the sheriff down there
and gonna make me open my trunk.

So I ended up opening it,
but there wasn't nothing in it.

Yeah. Oh, man, she's -
Whoo!

Good grief.

She find out you done something,
she'll turn you in.

Mrs. Miller
had testified at the trial...

that she had gotten off early
from her gas-station job...

and gone down to pick up her husband
and help him with the bookwork.

We found out she was not doing
any bookkeeping for that station...

because she had been fired
from herjob two weeks earlier...

for till-tapping, for stealing.

The reason that they were talking
to the police at all...

was that there'd been a three-day-running
knife fight in their apartment...

and they were all booked
for disorderly...

and drunk behavior in there...

including assault with knives
and all kinds of stuff.

And when they were at the police station,
they suddenly decided to volunteer...

all this information
about what they had seen...

about the police officer's killing.

A woman called me at my home...

and said she knew
this woman who had testified...

and identified Randall Dale Adams
from a passing vehicle...

and that this woman had never told
the truth in her life.

She also told me she had tried
to call the district attorney...

during the trial
and give this evidence...

that this woman
was not believable...

that if their case hinged on this testimony,
this was not believable testimony.

They were scum.

They were just...

um, actually scum.

He was a black man,
and she was a white Woman.

He came to work the day after.

He got to telling me
about the policeman...

that had gotten shot the night before,
and I hadn't heard anything about it.

And I thought it was
another one of his stories.

And he brings in these newspapers.

And he says
he didn't see a damn thing.

He couldn't. It was too dark.

The wheels started rolling
in his head about money.

That's when he got the idea.

Let me put it in his words.

For enough money,
he would testify...

to what they wanted him to say.

Or he would say anything
that they wanted him to say.

Or he would see anything
that they wanted him to see.

Those were his words.

I was shocked
that he did go ahead...

and get up and tell
that he saw the actual shooting...

and, you know, recognized the boy,
identified him.

That's when I called Dennis White
and told him, “That man's lying.”

Nobody has that good of eyesight.

I mean, you know, like...

from where the policeman
was supposed to have been shot...

and from where they were at...

I doubt if you could have
even seen him with binoculars.

I'm a salesman...

and you develop
something like a total recall.

I don't forget places, things...

or streets.

Because it's a habit,
something I just picked up.

I just stare intensely at people
and try to figure 'em out.

Being nosy, I just stare.

I was leaving
the Plush Pub one night...

driving a 1977 Cadillac.

Heading west on Hampton...

I noticed an officer
had two individuals...

pulled over to the curb...

in a blue -

some type of vehicle.

It was - It was a blue -
Yeah, it was blue.

Yeah, it was a blue Ford.
It was a blue something.

The driver, I think, had long hair
and a mustache...

and the other one
didn't have no hairs on his face.

A person that is white
going through that area at night...

he's a sore thumb.
He stick out, for the first reason.

And if they don't look right,
they're gonna stop you.

The officer,
he walked up to the vehicle.

Yeah, walked up.
His car was beh-

I don't know if it was behind or front,
but he had him pulled over...

and he was up to the car.

I think he was up to the car.
Let me think.

Yeah, he was up to the car.

As we was coming by,
he had to have been.

Yeah, he was up to the car.

I didn't see no bullet.
I didn't see no gunfire...

'cause I went on.

We have three people...

that testified
and identified him positively...

as being the driver at the time
that Wood was walking up...

right beside the car.

So we know that he was the driver
from the witnesses...

and we also know
that it was the driver...

that shot Officer Wood,
coming from his partner.

We couldn't have made a case...

with the voluntary statement
that we got from Adams.

We had to rely on witnesses...

and this is what we did.

I always tried very hard -
every judge I know of does -

to not show emotion
on the bench.

The reason:
If you do show emotion...

the jury might take it that
you're favoring one side or another.

So you try to remain passive,
emotionless, objective.

I do have to admit
that in the Adams case -

and I've never really said this -

Doug Mulder's final argument
was one I had never heard before...

about the thin blue line of police...

that separated the public
from anarchy.

I have to concede that there
my eyes kind of welled up...

when I heard that.

It did get to me emotionally,
but I don't think I showed it.

In death-penalty cases...

we have a question -
or we did at the time -

of whether or not that person
is of a dangerous mentality...

and might be expected
to commit other crimes.

To answer that question...

the Dallas district attorney's office
sends psychiatrists...

into the defendant's cell
to discover...

whether he is without remorse...

and therefore is a dangerous
and psychopathic personality.

Of course,
in the instance of a person...

who did not commit the crime, naturally
they're not gonna show much remorse.

There were two psychiatrists
that appeared again and again -

Holbrook and Grigson,
the “killer shrinks.”

There was
a certain amount of criticism...

directed against these two people...

because“.

In effect, whenever they showed up,
the purpose of their visit...

was to kill the defendant.

It was April 15th - tax day.

I think I was filling out
my taxes at the time.

Afraid I might be late.

A guard walks up
to the door and tells me...

“There's someone out here
who wants to talk to you.”

I asked him who.
He said he didn't know...

but the court ordered me to talk to him.
I said, “AII right.”

And here come
this real tall, ostrich-looking dude.

He introduced himself
as Dr. Grigson.

He pulled a pad
out of his coat pocket...

that had a line drawn across it.

On this pad,
on the upper half...

he had six images -

I will say a box, a square,
a circle with a diamond in it.

I don't -
You know, it's been a while.

He slides this piece of paper across to me
and hands me a pencil...

and he says,
“I 7n going to get' a cup of coffee.

Please copy
what's on this piece of paper.”

Well, I'm looking at this man,
you know?

I said, “What, you want it copied
just the same way you did...

or you want me
to change them around or what?”

He said, “Just do whatever
you think you want to do.”

And he left.

So on the bottom half
of this piece of paper...

I made my boxes and X's...

and zeros with diamonds in it,
exactly like his.

He asked me...

“What's the meaning of
'A rolling stone gathers no moss'?”

And I'm looking at this man.

I said, “Are you kidding?
Is this a joke, or what are you doing?”

He said, “No, I really want to know
your answer to that question.”

I said, “Well,
'A rolling stone gathers no moss' -

to me, it would represent...

that a person that doesn't
stand still long enough...

it's kind of hard for people
to cling to him.

If he keeps moving around,
it's hard to get close to him.”

He shook his head.

He said, “What about 'A bird in the hand
is worth two in the bush'?”

I said, “lf you have
a hold of something...

why give it up for a chance...

of getting something
that might be a little better?

It doesn't make sense. You've got
something good. Why let go of it?

If you can get the other one,
get it if you can...

but don't let go of what you got
to try to get something else.”

He asked about my family...

he asked about my background...

and he left.

Total time we had talked:
maybe 15, 20 minutes.

Dr. Grigson was up there testifying...

he would commit violent crimes
in the future if he was released.

Well, Grigson is known
as “Dr. Death”...

because he always
testifies that way.

In about 99 percent of the trials...

that he's been a witness
for the prosecution, he always testifies...

that, yes, they will commit
violent crimes in the future.

You can't tell what somebody's
gonna do years from now.

Not really.

Except based on your past record,
which anybody can do.

Randall never had any prior record...

and as far as we know, he never
had any history of violence whatever.

Grigson testified for 2 1/2 hours...

about all these degrees he's got.

He's been here
and he's been there...

and he's studied here.

He called me Charlie Manson.

He called me Adolf Hitler.

He said I'm the type
of personality...

that can work all day and creep all night.

He testified - Grigson -

that, you know, if -

The future seriousness...

of my mental state...

would be such
that if they released me...

I would go crazy and probably butcher
half of Dallas County.

Even though he talked to me
15 minutes...

I have no prior convictions,
no prior arrests.

I was nonviolent for 28 years.

On one instance -

and that's saying if I did this,
which I didn't-

he's stating that that's enough,

that for the rest of my life
you got to watch me.

Don't ever turn your back on me.

And he talked to me
15 minutes.

He - He's crazy.

You can understand why a man
might steal if he needs money...

to put food on the table.

I can understand why a 17-year-old boy
who doesn't have a car...

would steal one
to ride around in.

I can understand
why the heroin addict needs heroin.

But it's very hard to understand
why anybody has to kill a police officer.

It just doesn't have to be.

When I'm asleep at night and I close my
eyes, I think, “Why would he do it?”

He had no background
that would lead to murder...

no reason to commit a murder.

And I look at the facts of the case,
and I say...

David Harris knew
the car was stolen...

knew the guns were there,
knew the guns were stolen...

was on a crime spree...

had had a criminal record
prior to stealing this car and these guns.

He was the one who wanted to commit
the murder and get away from the scene...

and he was the one that,
after the murder, went back home...

and bragged about it to his friends.

I looked at all the evidence...

and I found I believed that
David Harris committed murder.

The jury looked
at the same evidence...

and found they believed that
Randall Adams committed murder.

And it was their verdict
that counted.

You have a D.A. -

he doesn't talk about...

when they convict you
or how they convict you.

He's talking about
how he's going to kill you.

He don't give a damn
if you're innocent, if you're guilty.

He's talking about killing you.

You get numb.

You get -

it's like a bad dream.
You want to wake up...

but you can't do it.

Fifteen times, 20 times a day,
I hear this same story...

about what happens
when a man is electrocuted.

His eyeballs pop out.

His fingernails pop out.
His toenails pop out.

He bleeds
out of every orifice he's got.

They don't care -

They don't care.

All they want to do is talk about
how they're going to kill you.

That's the only thing they cared about,
the only thing they talked about.

At that point,
that's all they're wanting.

I didn't have any idea...

what happened to him.

After I testified, I was gone.

I never really concerned myself
with it, you know?

Maybe I didn't want to know.
I don't know.

I didn't have
any interest in knowing.

Otherwise I might have
tried to find out.

Dennis filed a mot/on for a new trial.

Then we filed an amended motion for a new trial.

About 20 days later, we were to have a hearing.

Both Robert Miller
and his wife testified there...

but we could not bring out
the fact that they had said...

that they were gonna
get some of that reward money...

and that they didn't care
whether they saw anything or not...

but their car was too steamed up.

We were not allowed
to get any of that in...

because it was held that it was impeaching
testimony and therefore came too late.

We kept running into blank walls.

A reporter from The Dallas Morning News
discovered that...

one week after the Randall Dale Adams
trial was over with...

the daughter of this woman had
a robbery case in this very same court.

She offered her testimony
at a time when her daughter...

was in danger of going to jail for life...

and got her daughter out of jail.

How can you believe her
when the very next week...

the same judge in the same court
dismisses that case?

The Millers are the kind of people
that would do anything...

if there was something
to be gained...

such as her daughter
not being sent to the penitentiary...

for armed robbery, or for money.

When we went to court that day...

the district attorney
was real hard-nosed.

Wouldn't let me answer
any questions, you know?

He'd ask me questions...

but then he'd cut me off real short.

That's when he said something
about my big fat nose...

If I'd kept my big fat nose out of their business,
the Millers would be better off.

And, uh...

then when I started
to leave the courtroom...

he started laughing, like...

“lt didn't do you any good
to get up here.”

And it really didn't.
Didn't help the guy at all.

To the best of my recollection,
the brief conversations...

I've had with Mr. Adams -
and they have been brief-

I don't even recall ever asking him
or his having told me...

that he did not do it.

Because for my purposes,
representing him on appeal...

it's totally irrelevant.

When the Court
of Criminal Appeals of Texas...

voted nine-zero against us,
I was a little upset about that.

I felt we, A: should've won...

Certainly shouldn't have been
slapped so hard...

with the unanimous decision
against us.

I was with my family
in an ice-cream parlor...

and the judge and his family happened
to come in at the same time.

And he came over to me...

and made the comment...

“I see where
the Court of Criminal Appeals...

gave me an 'A'
in the Adams case.”

Our highest state appellate court...

the Court of Criminal Appeals
in Austin...

affirmed the case nine to nothing.

Then it was reversed by the United States
Supreme Court, eight to one.

When an appellate court
reverses a case...

they are never saying
the trial judge was right or wrong.

They're saying
they disagree with the judge.

You can't, for instance,
in the Adams appeals...

say the appellate courts were saying
I was right or I was wrong.

After all, if you -

In Austin, in our state appeals court,
I was nine-to-nothing correct.

In Washington,
I was one-to-eight incorrect.

If you tally all those votes,

I come out 10 to eight,
and yet the case was reversed.

Eight justices
of the Supreme Court...

were the first people
that ever agreed with me.

They're the only people anywhere
that ever agreed with me about that statute...

were eight justices of the Supreme Court.

The Dallas Morning News
had a very nice front-page story...

either the same day
or the day after...

the reversal was announced
by the Supreme Court...

in which Henry Wade,
the district attorney...

vowed a retrial
of Randall Dale Adams...

because there was no room
in his book for a cop-killer...

getting off with anything less
than the death penalty.

I took that to heart.
I thought I was gonna get my chance.

For reasons that were never
really made public...

Mr. Wade requested
the governor to commute...

Mr. Adams's death penalty to life...

and that eliminated the possibility...

of a retrial based on the reversal.

I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked.

I can't help but believe
that some of the motivation...

behind that decision...

was a fear that...

Adams may be vindicated
at a retrial.

I just felt they prosecuted
the wrong person, and I don't know why.

I felt that some policeman,
whether in Vidor or in Dallas...

made a decision
about who to prosecute...

and set the wheels of justice
in motion in the wrong direction...

and they got going so fast
no one could stop them.

So I felt it was up to me
to stop them, and I didn't.

Then I felt it was up to the Supreme Court.
They did what they could, but then...

it's all gotten messed up
and derailed again.

Since this trial, I have given up...

my practice of criminal law.

I have not had a jury trial
since I heard the verdict...

of this jury in this case...

and, uh, don't intend to.

I just feel like that...

I'll let other people handle
these problems for a while.

Because if justice...

can miscarry so badly...

I'd rather do something else.

Prosecutors in Dallas
have said for years...

“Any prosecutor
can convict a guilty man.

It takes a great prosecutor
to convict an innocent man.”

To this day,
I think Mr. Mulder believes...

that the Randall Dale Adams conviction
was one of his great victories...

probably because
of some reservations he has...

about Randall Dale Adams's guilt.

I got a call one morning
that a lady here in Vidor...

had been hit over the head
with a rolling pin...

and the attacker thought
she'd been knocked unconscious...

when in reality she wasn't...

and she recognized the attacker
to be David Harris.

He voluntarily came
to the police station.

I told him,
“David, this girl knows who you are.

I don't have to tell you I know the truth.
You know I know the truth this time.”

He said, “Yeah, I was wrong.

I smoked marijuana.
I was drinking.

I don't know what,
but something just came over me.”

But he forgot to mention
one thing at all -

that he was only wearing
his underwear.

I felt as though the attack
was sexually oriented.

He never wanted to admit that,
and as I recall...

he never really finally admitted it.

He'd just get to where
he wouldn't deny it.

He posted his bond
and went to Germany.

We had a crime with basically
the same M.O. as his...

so it led me to want to check
and see if he was in town.

I contacted the Worldwide
Military Locator to see if...

through the military,
I could locate him.

I did and found out
he was in prison at the time.

He really didn't remember
what happened.

He said he woke up in the stockade,
and he'd been told...

that he'd beat up
one of his ranking officers.

We had another occasion
to have a crime...

that fit his MO. a lot,
so I started looking for him again...

and this time I found him
in prison in California.

So I realized then, unfortunately,
he hadn't straightened up.

He was still having a lot of problems.

I was 16 years old.

Really hadn't had no real dealings...

with the court systems, et cetera.

Didn't know how they worked,
really, you know.

Didn't know much about the law.

Just a young, dumb kid.

Police give you the time of this
and the time this happened...

or whatever, and you just correlate
from those events.

You just estimate
from that event...

what time it was.

You don't know.

You're taking a guess.

Police tell you, “It was 12:30
when this crime happened.

What time did you leave the movie?”

I know it was somewhere
around midnight.

Might've been before then.
I don't know.

I didn't have a watch on.

He went
over my testimony with me...

pretty extensively, you know.

How should I answer
certain questions...

things of this nature.

It's what you call
“coaching the witness,” you know.

“Let's get this evidence in a spectrum...

where it's gonna be most effective.”

At the time, I didn't really...

ponder on it, but, uh...

he was deceiving the jury.

He wanted to deceive justice.

That's why I think
that statue with the scales -

Justice? What is she called?
I don't know what she's called.

She's got that blindfold on.

We don't see what goes on
behind the closed doors.

I had another woman in the car.

I didn't tell them about that.

My wife would kill me.

She would've tore my head off if she knew
I was out that night with another woman.

Would you tell?

No, that's what happened.
I was trying to get her home.

The driver's side
was down because...

the lady was a little sick...

and decided
she needed some air...

'cause she was pretty drunk.

See, the Millers,
one is black and one is white.

And they said the reason
I was over that time of night...

I was over there
messing with this man's wife.

And I ain't never went
with her in my life...

'cause she was too old and ugly.

Like I say, the D.A. will put
something into their mouth.

They could've prefabricated
the whole story.

They sure could've.
What I saw is just what I saw.

That was it.
So if they got paid...

they got paid for lying.

They already decided
what to do with you in the hall.

That's why they call it
“the hall of justice.”

The scales are not balanced.

The scales are in the hall,
and they go up and down.

They might go up for you
in favor one way...

and they might go down
against you.

So if the D.A.
wants you to hang...

for 15, 20 years, you're hung.

I had all these charges
still pending in Orange County.

Now, I could've been
certified as an adult...

maybe given a life sentence,
I don't know.

I'm 16 years old.
I know I don't want that.

The district attorney told me,
“Don't worry about them charges.

I'm gonna ask your -

Defense attorney
is gonna ask you...

if you had
any kind of deal or, uh...

anything of that nature,
you know...

in exchange for your testimony
in this case...

as relating to those charges.

'No.' Don't answer that 'yeah, '
answer it 'no.”'

My husband didn't get
that good a look at him.

He wasn't sure...

because they put a bunch
of them in there that looked alike.

They had three or four
in the lineup that had bushy hair...

but he had his combed down...

different to what it was
in the killing.

I didn't pick him out right then...

because I picked out
this bushy-haired man.

But I understand one
of the other witnesses...

did pick out the man
at the lineup.

I'm not sure,
but I think he did.

Of course,
I picked out Randall Adams...

just like that, you know.

I don't know about the others.

Evidently they did at that time.

I just took off.

It's like kids run away.

They don't think
about where they're gonna stay...

how they're going to eat...

all these things, you know.

They had that roof
over their head all their lives.

They don't think about those things
till you get out there and say...

“Hey, my stomach's growling now.”

Or “It's getting cold out here.

Oh, it's raining.”

There was ice on the road.

I remember there was a car coming
pretty fast up the road behind me...

and didn't see me or something...

or was in one lane
and came into the other...

and I was in that lane,
and tried to stop me.

I remember this car went off
the side of the road.

I'm just looking back, you know.

I remember that.

I got a call at my house
about 3:30 one morning.

One of the patrolmen
in my department called and said...

“We just arrested
this boy named David Harris.

He won't even tell us his name.
He said he wants to talk to you.”

They told me something
that really made rne interested.

They told me he'd been shot.

David initially told me that
he had gone to a bar in Houston...

and was flirting
with a young lady over there...

and her boyfriend became upset
and chased him with a pistol...

shooting at him,
shot him several times.

We knew that wasn't true.

I said,
“David, I know you're lying to me.

We go through this all the time...

or all my dealings
with you in the past.

I don't know
what you've done just yet.

I know you were shot doing something
you shouldn't have been doing.

We know you burglarized
the gun shop in Vidor.

We know you were driving drunk.

Got witnesses who can identify you...

who can identify your truck.”

I said, “You're caught.
You're caught, so tell the truth.”

And David said,
“Okay, I killed him.”

Their home was entered
while this man...

and his girlfriend
were there alone.

The man was sent into the bathroom
at gunpoint and told to stay there.

David took the girl
and was starting to leave.

The man exited
the apartment with a gun.

The man fell to the ground
or near the ground...

holding onto a pole in the parking lot
of the apartment complex...

and the last two, three -
how many shots, I don't know -

were fired at point-blank
or near point-blank range.

David thought the one
really at fault that night...

was the guy that got killed.

He said, “That guy's crazy!
He came after me with a gun!”

“David, you'd broken
into his house.

You abducted his girlfriend.
What was he supposed to do?”

He said, “Man shouldn't come out
with a gun. That dude's crazy.

He should've been killed.”

When we went
to retrieve the pistol...

I had to go into the water.

It was a bayou,
a grassy, snaky-looking area.

Wasn't real pleased
about being there myself...

but David enjoyed watching me
having to go look for that gun.

I'd been searching several minutes,
and he was up on the bridge...

probably 25 feet from me,
directing me to the area...

where he thought the gun
had landed in the water.

He was handcuffed.

Traffic would come by,
and he would turn around...

and show them his handcuffs
and holler...

“Help me. They're fixing to throw me
in this water. They're gonna drown me.”

Just anything he could do
to make a joke and cut up.

He was just really having a good time.

You know, the kid scares me.

The kid scares me.

To think that he could actually be
out there walking the streets...

and Dallas County let him go.

The kid had seven crimes
coming down on him.

He had armed robberies.

He had firing on a peace officer.

He had breaking-and-enterings,
aggravated assaults.

God knows what all this kid had.

And Dallas County gives him complete immunity
for his testimony. Just lets him walk.

My mom had a good phrase.

She said the first night she pulled
into Dallas, it was raining...

and that it was lightning...

and they're coming into Dallas,
and she said...

“lf there was ever a hell on earth,
it's Dallas County.”

And, you know, she's right.
She's right.

You deal with people who you sense
bad vibrations, more or less.

“This guy doesn't like me anyway
just 'cause I'm a policeman.”

You can just kind of sense
there's something there.

I realize maybe I shouldn't
even be saying that...

because policemen are not supposed
to take these things to the bank.

When you deal with people
over and over, you sense things.

Talking to David, you don't ever feel
hostile feelings coming from him.

I have never seen David
any way other than cordial...

friendly to me as he could be.

“Yes, sir. No, sir.”

Never disrespectful.

I've never seen the bad side.
I've seen the results...

and I've talked to him about it,
and he's aware of it.

He remembers the bad side.

But I've never seen him
committing a crime...

or in a violent or volatile state.

When his crimes were confessed to...

he seemed to feel and do better

than any other times
that I've known him.

His parents would tell me
he would do better at home.

He seemed to get along better
with the people in town...

his neighbors and friends.

But something happens to David,
and I don't know what.

I don't know if anybody
can put their finger on it.

But there's no other indication
of anything in the family...

that would lead you to believe
he had exposure...

to these type activities
or anything.

David's got at least one other brother
and sister that I know of.

And he had one brother
that drowned...

numerous years ago.

I was, uh, three years old...

and I had a four-year-old brother...

and he drowned in 1963...

right after President Kennedy
was assassinated, I believe.

Sometime right after that.
It was during the summer.

We was living in Beaumont
on Harrison Street...

and my dad was working
on his truck out in the yard...

and Mom was in the house
doing housework...

or fixing dinner or something.

Me and my brother had
one of these little blow-up pools...

and we were playing in that.

My dad was supposed
to be watching us...

or keeping his eyes on us
or something.

My brother wandered off
down the street...

and these people had
a swimming pool in their backyard...

and they were elderly people
and never used the pool.

I guess it' had a bunch of lea ves
and stuff in it, you know.

And, uh...

he evidently fell in there
and drowned.

I used to sit in my room at night
and talk to him...

and he wasn't even there.

So I guess that might've been...

some kind of a traumatic
experience for me at that age.

I guess my dad -

I don't know, maybe...

he couldn't get rid
of the responsibility...

or the guilt or something.
I don't know what it was.

But I was there, and I guess
maybe I reminded him of that...

all the time, growing up...

and it was hard for me
to get any acceptance from him.

When my younger brother
was born, it was like...

he was “daddy's favorite”...

or something, I don't know.

Everybody's life is gonna
take some kind of path...

regardless of what happens,
you know...

and, uh“.

I think maybe a lot of the things
I did when I was younger...

was an attempt
to get back at him...

or something
for the way he treated me.

But I wasn't doing nothing
but hurting myself.