Original subtitles

-[man] I want you to have your cup. -[man 2] Yeah, that works.

[man 1] Get a cup in here.

[Steve] How long does it take you to get to practice?

[LeBron] At the hour I go, probably 20 minutes.

-[Steve] Easy. -I go early.

We got practice at 11:00, I'll try to get there no later than 8:30.

So, it'll take me about 20 minutes.

On the way back, after practice, like 35.

-[Steve] Yeah. -[LeBron] Yeah.

-Perfect, man. -Thank you.

-[man] If you want-- -[Steve] Yeah.

-[man] We are rolling. We've been rolling. -[Steve] Rolling.

-[Steve] Ready to go? -[LeBron] Love it.

-[man] Yeah, Steve, no pressure. -[Steve] Off we go, all right. [laughs]

Hey, I'm Steve Nash, and this is season two of Mind the Game.

For those of you who were listening,

subscribing, downloading, last season,

you had J.J. Redick,

formerly a podcaster

and now the coach of the Los Angeles Lakers

with his star student, LeBron James,

discussing the game of basketball.

I thought they did an exceptional job of digging into the weeds

of the technical aspects of the game,

and we hope to continue that here on season two.

LeBron's been really gracious with his time,

allowing us to kind of get inside the mind

of one of the all-time greats.

Not just on the technical stuff, but in the big-picture items as well.

His approach, his mentality, his preparation and recovery

along with trends of the game, where the game's going,

how it's being played, how we dissect and analyze the game.

So I'm excited. Got a great opportunity here

to talk about the game I love with someone that I greatly admire,

and having an opportunity to discuss, not only the current Lakers team

that has had some major moves recently,

but also the entire league and the state of the game of basketball.

This is amazing. Great to sit down with you.

You know, we've played against each other,

we've dapped each other up dozens of times,

but we never got a chance to sit down.

-Right. -Have a meal or a drink together.

So this is, you know, an honor for me

to get to know your way of thinking, your approach.

-I'm excited for the series. -Yeah, me too.

[LeBron] Welcome back, man, Mind the Game.

-Welcome back. -[cheering, clapping]

[Steve] Let's make this a good one, make it fun.

[LeBron] Let's do it.

You're brave, though. I'm a rookie.

So, last year you were doing this with a professional podcaster…

[laughs]

-…who now is your head coach. -Right.

And a pretty damn good one at that.

So, I'm gonna try to pick it up for him.

I'm gonna try to see if I can get under the hood of the Lakers

along the way, as I'm fascinated by his journey as well.

-Yeah. -But sitting in his seat with you

is gonna be a lot of fun for me, so let's crack it off.

Absolutely, and disclosure, real quick.

If he gets a head coaching job, because whatever,

we didn't talk about this beforehand, guys.

[laughs] Yeah, right.

All right, just letting you guys know. We didn't talk about it.

But two great minds, though, once again.

-Thank you. -Let's do it. Let's get it.

Well, listen, the first thing

that I want to hear you speak about,

all right, is from the time you're, I don't know,

12, 13 years old, you've been the guy.

-Yeah. -Okay.

So, how many people in the history of the game

have sat here at 40 years old having done everything?

You know, kiss the ass, get that out of the way right away.

-[LeBron laughs] -But champion, MVP, golds,

titan of industry, you know, business.

You've landed the plane on Mount Rushmore

after 30 years, basically.

Like, what does success look like for you now?

-Wow. -At 40?

That's a great question. I think it comes down to like…

What does success mean to me now?

Um…

about inspiring the guys that's with you

and the crew that's coming after you.

You know, hoping that what you're doing

and the tools and the DNA

and the blueprint that you're doing

while you're still playing and striving while you're doing that,

it's going to trickle down to the generation that you're with

and the generation that's coming in.

We've always heard the saying,

"Leave the game in a better place than when you were in it."

And that's what's success for me.

I hope I can inspire the next generation

of great players, great athletes, not only in just basketball,

but in sport in general

to what it means to take care of your body

and, you know, keeping your mind fresh

and understanding, like, being more…

being more driven by the process

more than the actual ending goal.

And then just trying to be great or as great as you can be,

squeezing as much juice out of yourself as you can

and doing it because you're doing it

for the love of the process and not what it brings,

not what the sport brings you.

Great answer.

I was gonna say in the middle of it,

the obvious answer is to win a championship.

Right. For sure.

But the process is everything.

I think it's so important for young players,

in line with what you're saying, to realize process over outcome.

So many… whether you're 7-year-old or 14-year-old, 25-year-old,

sometimes we get carried of the outcome.

But it's a process that leads to an outcome,

and if you start looking at the outcome, you lose sight of the process.

You've always been a leader in that respect, taking care of your body.

You've been on the cutting edge, you know, life off the court,

you know, building businesses,

the way even during your career

you changed franchises strategically.

-Yeah. -Always cutting edge,

always thinking ahead, always trying to get somewhere

that you think is interesting about where you can take the game.

-Thank you. -Thank you, guys.

[LeBron] Absolutely.

-To good health. -Absolutely.

Down the stretch here, especially.

- Thank you. -Cheers.

-That's beautiful. That's lovely. -[Steve] Hmm.

Like they was stepping on those grapes right outside, right out back.

[both laugh]

For sure.

Where was I?

-The process. -Yeah.

There's another former 40-year-old Laker in the room.

It didn't go as well, but I would say,

I fought with everything I could to keep playing.

-Yeah. -I wanted to keep going.

I would've loved to play two, three, four more years.

'Cause you get to that stage where you can see over the fence.

-Yeah, for sure. -And that's vast.

More than any time before, absolutely.

You've been in the league longer than you've not been in the league.

-Right. -Twenty-two--

-Twenty-two compared to 18. -…seasons to 18.

And then you got your whole rest of your life

without, you know, playing the game,

-whenever that is. -Yeah.

And I have a hunch it's not now because of what I've been noticing lately.

My point is that when I was fighting

to get every last drop that I could, I wanted to compete,

I wanted to be on the floor, I wanted to win games,

but what I really was obsessed with was the process

of trying to get better every day,

trying to prepare to stay healthy, to get healthy,

to refine my skills, to get sharper,

to get fitter, all those things. I can relate to that,

but I think it's a wonderful message for young players.

So many nowadays, like, social media,

-whatever it is… -Yeah.

-The lens gets so broad. -Right.

-We forget about like-- -Right.

My process is all I have.

-Yeah. -Right?

You just said it, because of social media

and because of people wanting instant gratification--

instant oatmeal, I always call it.

Like, let's throw it in the microwave,

in a minute and a half it's warm.

You know, I think if you really want to be great at something,

it definitely doesn't happen overnight.

It's not gonna happen in a year or two.

And even if you're having a great season

or you're having a career year,

there's still so much more room to continue to improve.

You know, there's still much more room

for you to continue with the process

of becoming great, where it's sustainable.

You know, we've both been in many All-Star Games,

multiple All-Star Games,

and we've both seen guys that were there one year…

Right.

…and guys that were not there the next year.

You know, and you ask yourself,

you know, when I walk into those locker rooms still,

-I ask myself, what was it? -Right.

What was the defining factor why that particular player

wasn't there the following couple years

after he had that breakout season the year before?

That's disregarding if an injury happen.

-Sure. -You know, so,

being able to just like,

make the lens so much smaller

and not looking at, like, the finished product.

Because yes, we all want to, in our respective sport,

we want to hoist the Larry O'Brien Trophy.

You've seen it, you've seen other guys do it,

you've seen it over a course of time.

You feel like it cements your legacy

or whoever that you want to become.

But ultimately, the time and the commitment

that you give to yourself and to your body,

and to your craft, and to your mind, those things will take care of itself.

And if it's meant for you to have, then it's meant for you to have.

If it's not, if you've done all those things leading up to it

and it still didn't happen, you sleep better at night.

You're okay with yourself because you gave your body, mind, and soul,

everything you could ever ask for.

Yeah, I'd take it one step further.

When you are in your process, as you have been locked in for years,

especially with the aperture of what you have to deal with,

is there any better feeling than being locked in?

-No. -Like when you are locked in,

you're taking and you're in a rhythm,

and every day you're knocking it down.

-You never miss a step. -Nope.

You go to bed feeling great, you wake up feeling inspired,

you go in the gym with energy. That's the best way to live.

That's why I didn't wanna stop.

-Right. -And so like,

it's amazing that you have that approach, still fighting for it at this age,

still playing incredible basketball,

and that you're leaving a legacy.

-Yeah. -My question would be like,

was there a time in your career

where that light bulb went on and you realize

it is all about the process.

I would say probably around year seven or eight.

You know, I was around 25, 26.

You know, when I first entered the league,

I always had the mind for the game, you know?

-No plug. -[both laughing]

I always had the mind for the game.

So I knew that when I became a professional,

I knew I could think the game, you know?

And I knew that my body was ready for the game as well.

What I did not know, or you know, what I did not have,

I didn't have enough cumulative hours put in

-on perfecting the process. -Yep.

You know, in high school you play high school ball,

you're there with your friends, you're enjoying it.

And yes, I was in the gym

a lot sooner than some of my teammates and best friends,

and I left the gym a lot sooner than some--

I mean, a lot later than some of my friends,

but still, there's another level.

There's another level that quite frankly, I didn't know.

And it took me, you know, I thought when I, you know,

took my team to the finals in 2006, I believe, at age 22.

I was gonna do that for the next three or four years.

Like, I was, "Okay, just maybe gimme one more piece."

-Yeah. -You know?

And at 23, I got into the postseason and lost in the second round

and then I'm, you know, 24 I got there,

I got to the Eastern Conference Finals or vice versa,

Eastern Conference finals, the second round, one of those years,

and I didn't get back into the finals until 2011, you know?

It was five years later.

I just thought it was gonna happen like that.

And I think part of it was, you know, me being young

and obviously, you know, you play some superior teams,

but at the end of the day, I don't think that, you know,

my process was where it needed to be

or even if I even had enough time

for my process to be where it needed to be.

Right, right.

And I didn't win a championship, I believe,

until I finally was understanding and had the ability,

as far as my capacity, to understand the process,

to unlock the process and then go after it,

and to stay there, stay that course.

I think another word describing that,

unlocking and staying there, is efficiency.

Sometimes, like, you outwork, you know,

you're in there early, you stay late, you know you can do it,

you're learning 'cause you have the mind for the game.

But like, it takes maturity to like,

figure out what efficiency really means, right?

Like, other stuff happens in your life,

you know, you become bigger,

social media comes into the world, you start a family.

Now you gotta be really efficient.

Things get in the way and you have to start saying,

"No, I gotta be focused and locked in."

Sometimes you just can't do that at 20, 21, 22.

No, I just don't think you can.

And I think you can be as locked in

as your hard drive will allow you to be, you know?

Mm. Good point.

I've always said this saying like,

"The best teacher in life is experience," you know?

And you have the ability

to go through a career and a profession where you have,

you know, instances and moments that will either shape you

to understand what's coming next or not,

and it's up to you, like,

how much more do you want to be put in that position

'cause you know how to handle it the next time.

So, you know, I think, you know,

even when you do become a champion,

if you are able to become a champion at 20 or 21 or 22,

you're still not tapped. I mean, when Kobe came in,

he had a couple years, and then Shaq came to the team,

and I think he won his first one at like 21 or 22.

But he wasn't the Kobe that we all saw in 2008, 2009, 2010,

when he was really able to define his game

and hone in on his skill, his efficiency, his mind.

You know, we saw the complete Kobe Bryant, you know, then,

so I think it just takes time.

Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, it's an interesting one because like,

it seems so obvious at this end

of our careers and lives, right?

But you look back and you're like, "You know what? I wasn't as efficient."

So like, there is a, like,

even if you tell this story to like,

-talking to Bronny. -Right.

Some of it he takes, 'cause he is a smart kid,

he loves the game, but some, he's just not ready to take.

And like you said, I say you can't cheat experience.

You need to go through stuff, you need to build scores,

and it's the ones that really have the dedication

that want to win and be the best,

that want to be prepared, that they learn.

They learn from their mistakes, from their journey.

It's funny you say that because I have to check myself sometimes

throughout the course of games or practices

or shoot-arounds or film sessions

when we have a couple young guys on the team,

and I expect for them to know it, and that's unfair to them.

I've always talked about my Little League coaches

and the coaches I've had over my career.

I believe they really set me up for the greater of the game of basketball.

Like I was, you know, like,

I was taught how to pass and cut,

I was taught, you know, flex action,

I was taught ball movement, you moving defensively.

When the ball move, you move.

You know, I was taught pointing your fingers out

and having your fingers point out. You can see, you know,

your man and the ball, then you're in the right position.

I was taught that, you know,

if you're not getting more satisfaction

outta seeing the success of your teammates,

then what are you doing it for?

I was taught all those things

and then also being able to lock in like,

okay, if a coach writes down a play on the board,

on the whiteboard, you know, to not mess it up

when you get out on the court, you know?

We would study those things.

And this was like eight, nine, 10, 11 years, when I was 11, 12.

All still applicable today.

-All today. -And for the Lakers.

One of my pet peeves is a coach writing a play on the board,

and 20 seconds later, the guys go out there and fuck it up.

You know, that's one of my pet peeves.

But back to what I was saying, like, you know,

I expect excellence outta everyone, you know?

And I expect for everyone to know exactly what we're doing

and how we're supposed to do it, and what's going to happen.

But also I have to check myself sometimes by saying,

"Okay, the level of experience may not… it's not there just yet."

-[both] Appropriate excellence. -Which is a hard balance.

Right, it's a hard balance when you know, shit, you're 40.

And you're like, "Okay,"

I'm looking over the mountain, I say, "Oh, shit, there's the end."

There's the end for me! You know?

I'm still competing at a high level, and I'm like,

"Well, I have a chance to, you know, possibly win another championship."

But this is a team game. When it comes to soccer

and football and basketball, these are complete teams,

no matter how great you are as an individual.

And you have to rely on either, you know,

four other guys, the guys coming off the bench--

Football, you have to rely on the other 10 guys

and then the offense, defense, offensive coordinator.

Soccer, the same shit, you have to rely on everybody.

So, you know, it's a tug of war for me mentally, you know?

When it comes to it.

And the system's not set up for kids

to learn the same way, you know?

Whether it's AU, whether it's, you know, the way--

I'll put myself in this category,

my generation of parenting, we protect our kids too much.

Like, you gotta let 'em like fail a little bit.

You know, now, the kids mean everything to the AU program,

not the AU program in high school.

And if they don't like it there, then they go somewhere else,

-Like it's, yeah. NIL, yeah. -And NIL, right?

Can a coach be hard on you? I would've

never made the league if it wasn't for my high school coach,

my college coach being hard on me.

That made me tough. That made me be able to suffer, to fail,

to get back up, to keep going, to keep believing

'cause they rode me, right?

They rode me. And so that's a hard thing for our kids.

There's very few environments nowadays

that have that where we let them struggle, right?

I think it's appropriate challenges.

Yeah, I was so humbled and appreciative like,

when Bronny wanted to stay at his high school

-for four straight years. -Yeah.

You know, he could've went other places

and maybe even got better opportunities

or be able to do whatever he wanted to do with the game.

And he stayed at the same high school for four years.

And our youngest son did as well…

[laughs] …because of parenting, because of some things

happening at the school we didn't like, we kind of made him transfer.

-He wanted to stay? -He wanted to stay.

And then ultimately he came to us and said he was not happy

with the places that we sent them to,

and he ended up going back.

Now this is his senior year.

He's spent all four years in the same high school.

And that means something.

You're not like running away from adversity.

Even though things might not be going your way,

you're able to say, "Fuck it, man."

Like, okay.

I'm here, I've laid the groundwork and okay, yeah,

it's not going well for me here, but this is not even the real world.

What if it doesn't work out for me in the real world?

I can't pack up and just leave.

I have to be able to stick through it and work through it."

Those are values that start at home.

They value community, character, resilience.

They don't wanna leave their teammates.

That stuff matters, and I think that that's important, you know,

as a value for parents, but also like, as a community.

- Yeah, for sure. -Hopefully, we can do better.

The next part of our conversation centers

around the Los Angeles Lakers, but first I'd like

to give some background on different actions,

different vocabulary that we use in the NBA,

just maybe give a slightly deeper level

for certain fans out there that haven't been exposed

to some of the technical acumen that, you know,

is just the language of NBA players.

So one that we spoke about in this episode was the short roll.

The short roll is catching the ball shortly after rolling to the basket.

You know, we've all seen the guard keep the ball

and throw the lob at the rim or throw the pocket pass

where the big takes it to the basket,

but the short roll is when you release the ball early

to whoever set that screen,

and now they're the playmaker out of that pocket.

So often it comes from a quick little double team.

So, we have the offensive player with the ball.

Offensive player comes and sets a screen, X guarding.

X guarding the roller.

Here he comes off with the ball.

Maybe this defender comes and jumps.

For a second, we have two on the ball.

The roller gets right in here, and we have little bounce pass

or a little pass over the top into this pocket,

which allows them now to be essentially a playmaker,

playing three on two or four on three from that position.

Next, we have the pocket pass. This is pretty self-explanatory.

There's a pocket created when someone sets a pick-and-roll

if the big is not up to the level.

So we have a screener here coming up to set the screen.

His defender is usually lagging the play right here.

As the ball handler dribbles off the pick-and-roll

and the roller rolls, there's a pocket

between the two defenders where that ball can be thrown

to the roller to take to the basket.

Blender. Blender is a term we use in the NBA

when a team is in rotation, essentially,

when they've created their first bit of penetration

and help is forced.

Now when you create a situation where someone comes to help

and the ball is passed around the gym

and someone else now puts it on the floor to touch the paint

or plays two on one with the weak side, essentially,

that broken floor where a team is trying to recover

and they're in rotations is called blender.

So a lot of NBA teams like to knock down the first domino,

whether it's pick-and-roll, isolation, transition,

force the team into rotations.

Now they can start moving the ball around the gym,

creating closeouts or two-on-ones,

paint touches that open up three-point shooters

or opportunities at the rim for baskets, offensive rebounds,

all sorts of havoc. We call that blender.

In this episode, LeBron references Angle Pop.

It's a standard action in the NBA.

So we have an offensive player with the ball.

We have an offensive player here and in the corner.

The other corner's filled.

Here comes a pick-and-roll.

Ball handler comes off the pick-and-roll…

we pop. Ball goes to the popper.

If it's two on this side, there's a hard dive

and then a DHO, dribble hand-off, with the corner guy.

Attack, roll, or, of course, if there's a switch,

you can attack the switch or post up the mismatch.

We did mention in this episode about being in the gaps,

protecting the paint defensively.

We've got a ball.

Let's just say it's head on the rim, out top.

We have a defender here.

This is a great isolation player with speed skill

that we see on every team in the NBA.

You know, we have the floor spread,

so perhaps we have a shooter's foul line extended

and the corner's filled,

and this is a difficult ball handler to contain.

You have a choice to either stay home,

which would mean your defenders out here

next to the shooter, trying not to give up threes,

or we can be in the gaps loading to the ball,

trying to take away penetration.

A lot of teams have tough decisions to make in our league

with guys with such athleticism and skill, but a lot of teams place emphasis

on being in the gaps, not allowing penetration.

Even though we're a threes-heavy league,

the thing you want to take away is your rim.

-Let's talk about these Lakers. -Let's do it.

Let's talk about these Lakers. There's, you know,

you guys won a championship a few years back now.

I don't know if it's fair to say,

but felt like the project, if I can call it that,

was getting a little stale.

All of a sudden, you guys make a huge trade.

You got one of the greats already

at 25, nearly 26,

five-time, first team All-NBA, Luka Dončić.

-Right. -Amazing player.

Exciting, of course.

But I'd like to know from you, like what excited you

about getting to play with Luka?

Because he plays the game how I've always wanted

to inspire the generation to play the game.

It's like, it's no…

And it's nothing predetermined.

It's if you have two guys on you,

-there's a numbers game. -Right.

If you have the advantage, and if it's a guy

that, you know, that can't guard you

or you able to beat him, and then the guy traps the box

or another guy sinks, I'm able to make the passes

and make the reads before they happen.

-Right. -And I've always loved

the players that breathe so much confidence

into his teammates that make them believe

that they're actually better than what they really are.

Yes, yes.

You did that. Luka has done that for seven years.

Chris Paul did that in New Orleans,

doing that for that team down in New Orleans.

I've been able to do that with a few of my teams.

I don't go to the NBA Finals in 2006 with that team

-if I'm not able to… -100%.

…make them believe that they're greater than what they are

and give them that confidence.

It's a great point 'cause I think people understand

you make your teammates better,

but making them believe is a whole other thing,

because you can spray the ball

around the gym and make people better.

But to give them that belief that like, "No, what I do is important

and valued and gonna help our team win,"

that's a different thing.

And it makes them, ultimately,

they would do anything for you, run through a wall for you.

-You know? -That's right.

We saw that one of your teammates gets suspended in the postseason.

Right. [chuckling]

You know? When you get chucked to the scores table.

-Yeah. -But that's because

you've given them so much confidence and so much belief.

You fuckin' touch Steve, like,

I feel like you're going after me.

-We built that bond. -Y'all built that bond.

You know what I'm saying? So like, Luka has that.

And I mean, he learned that from growing up in Slovenia

to heading over to Madrid

and learning the game the right way

and playing at a professional level at, what,

-13, 14 years old? -Yeah.

And he brought that same model

and that same game to the NBA and…

Like, from day one.

From day one. He's from day one, you know?

-Incredible. -Incredible.

Let me, okay, lemme bring up a question for you.

I've heard many people say,

"You can't make a blockbuster trade mid-season and contend."

-So I'd like… -They're wrong.

I'd like to know what…

[both laughing]

-They're wrong. -Yeah.

And tell me how you feel about that.

Like, that's there's validity to that,

but it doesn't mean it's black and white.

It's definitely, it's very challenging,

You know, especially mid-season because, I mean, you know,

you really start the season in September,

and you start to implement, you know,

what you wanna do offensively and defensively.

And yes, throughout the season, there's times where, okay,

"Maybe we shouldn't do this. Okay, let's lean to this," but the premise

and the staple of what you wanna do offensively

and defensively is put in place, you know?

So, when you add a…

When you talk about blockbuster, not just a regular,

you know, get a piece here, there,

but if you add a blockbuster trade,

where you bring in, you know, a Luka Dončić

or a blockbuster trade or for Anthony Davis goes, you know,

to Dallas, whatever, you have to kind of rearrange,

you know, how we're playing, you know?

So now Dallas goes from being heavy pick-and-roll,

you know, to, you know, four out,

you know, make one big, come set it for Luka,

you get a roller, you get spreads, you know?

When Luka sits down, and, okay, Kyrie gets the ball,

and now he does his thing.

You know, now, you know, their team kinda changes,

and our team dynamic changes too from, you know,

we need A.D. to touch the ball every time down.

We have to have A.D. engaged

in order for us to be able to win,

'cause when A.D.'s engaged, offensively it's gonna work,

and then defensively it makes us more credible.

So now we have to change our whole thing to now--

[both] Completely different.

Because Luka needs the ball. He has to have the ball.

It makes no sense of bringing in Barry Bonds

if we're not gonna have him back clean up.

Exactly. You know, it's early, right?

Like this episode might not come out for a month,

but, you know, you've beaten Dallas last night.

You beat Denver in Denver,

who was at the moment of taping was on fire.

-Yeah. -Playing very well, found their stride.

Nikola Jokić makes it very difficult for everybody.

My goodness, does he!

But like what I've seen in this four or five games with Luka has been exciting.

-Yeah. -It's been exciting.

This is one of those real opportunities where I say,

"Okay, they could buck this trend of being difficult."

Before I get to my thought, the other thing that's hard,

as someone who's coached, you don't get a lot of time

with the team to implement.

Like the season is, you know, travel, playing,

hotel, game, game, day off.

You know, performance teams now want you off all the time.

Right, right.

As a coach, trying to implement is difficult.

There's no practice time.

You walk through, watch film.

Even watching the quick hitters you guys are running.

I'm sure J.J. wants more pace in some of those.

How do you get time to be like, "Let's run through this fast"?

J.J., for sure, he's like,

when we're in shoot-around, he's kinda harping on it.

Like, he'll draw something, and then when we break,

he say, "These are some of the things

that I would like to do on the fly,

where I don't have to call a time out and it be a TO."

You know, "I would much rather us learning.

Let's figure out how we can learn it, to where

if you're going down the court and I yell it out, you guys know what we're doing."

You just said it, you know?

When you make that blockbuster trade in mid-season,

it is hard 'cause you said, you know, the games are every other day,

you know, three and four nights, four and six nights, back-to-backs.

The month of March, we have four back-to-backs in the month of March.

I think it's something like, I've seen like six games

or, yeah, six games in like seven days, 7 1/2 days,

so that makes it even more important.

The shoot-arounds, the film sessions, you know,

when you're on the plane and you're flying,

you know, give us the iPads

and you're watching it and showing your teammate,

"Okay, I messed up here," or "What could I have done here?"

Stealing some time.

Stealing some time because some of the things

that you… I don't wanna say take for granted.

-Practice time. -Yes.

You're not gonna have.

You know, so, I mean, you said it. That's the fine line right there.

And I think like, we think about putting in plays, sets.

Its principles too, like getting familiar with principles.

Side out of bounds, underneath out of bounds.

End-of-game get-in, end-of-game plays.

Just get the ball.

People take for granted.

Like defensive principles, but then like, what's our off-speed pitch?

What's our curve ball? Like, you know, okay,

what's our Blitz package look like,

how are we gonna get it out of his hands? Whatever it is.

That takes time, that takes feel. So, that's a big challenge for you all.

Watching you play early, it's been fascinating.

And I'd like to start by talking about

two of the greatest point forwards of all time.

Two guys that can dominate a game with the ball in their hands,

scoring, passing, rebounding, whatever they want.

Two computer processors, right?

But you can't both have the ball.

-Right. -Right.

So what I've been impressed with is, and Luka too,

and I think you've started down this path with Austin

in that you started empowering him.

You started like picking more spots saying like,

"I don't need to control everything."

As we feel in the heart of our career,

you feel like, we can lose, I can't give the game away.

When it comes down the stretch, I'm gonna make every decision.

Empowering your teammates is important, especially in year 22.

Absolutely.

So what I've been impressed with everybody,

but in particularly you, is your ability to be a spacer,

a cutter, a screener, a short roller,

a quick decision-maker.

Like, that to me is where your team

offensively can reach an incredible height

and not think, come back to me.

Why did we even think like two primary ball hunters?

Can you expound on like,

how you are approaching this process?

Well, I'm very smart when it comes to the game of basketball.

That's never in question.

-I hope not. -The habits. The habits, right?

It's not the intelligence.

Generally, you see and do everything,

the habit of saying, I'll be a cutter, a screener, a spacer.

I'll be… when I know, um…

when I know that it's for the betterment of the team

and for ultimately, for us to reach our rim…

-Mm-hmm. -…um…

I'm able to adapt to whatever position

that needs to be done, and in this case,

understanding how great Luka is, how on the rise Austin is,

I can do things that affect the game still

that benefits our team, and like you said, you know,

being able to come up and set a pick-and-roll

where it's a switch league, you know?

But to be able to pick and slip

or pick and hit the short roll,

now what I do best is even more unlocked.

So you're giving me a pocket pass,

and now I'm playing the four-on-three game.

[Steve] Hundred percent.

I'm playing the four-on-three game where

I've gotten the ball from Luka or A.R. in the pocket.

Now I get to read and decide

what these three defenders are gonna guard me with the ball,

two guys in a corner and a big and a dunker, or small and a dunker…

I'm gonna pick you apart, you know?

Instead of always having to be at the head of the play,

and now all eyes are on me and it's a five-on-five game.

You know, when Luka's ability to manipulate a defense.

Distort the defense.

[LeBron] Yeah, if you put two on him, and now when the ball is swung to me

and I'm going against a closeout,

which it doesn't happen much in my career.

-You guys stay home for 22 years. -Right. For 22 years.

To get eyes on someone else for a change,

and then I'm catching it on the backside

with a live dribble or I'm cutting through traffic,

you know, it's…

But one of the highest forms of intelligence

is also knowing what your sacrifice needs to be. Right?

And this is an insult to you, but there has been examples in our league

where great players with other great players,

like to "your turn my turn."

-Yeah. -Right?

Immediately you were bought into

I'm not just standing in the parking lot waiting for Luka to do his thing.

I'm gonna eat off of him, and I'm gonna create for him.

And seeing you do that right away

is such a great example of how to play the game in the right way.

In a way that you haven't done for the majority of 22 years.

Yeah, and I think I just always go back to the teaching.

You know, um…

You know, when I first started playing basketball,

there were no pick-and-rolls.

When I first started playing, it was just motion offense.

-Yeah. Flex. -It was just flex and motion

and, you know, cutting screen away and cutting pass

and, you know, there was none of that.

You know, in high school,

my two coaches, Coach Keith Dambrot,

who just retired from Duquesne last year,

and Coach Dru Joyce, who I think

he's got about about a year or two left, you know, at St. Vincent-St. Mary.

We didn't run much pick-and-roll either.

It was all about like, how can we get the ball moving

from one side to another, move the defense,

break down the defense with dribble drives,

try to get middle.

Guy sucked in, you spray.

You ain't got a shot, quick decisions.

Moving, moving. So it was always a numbers game for me growing up,

and, you know, when you get into the NBA,

obviously, you know, things change,

and it's all about how can we, you know,

target here or whatever the case may be, or, you know,

just get the numbers game.

You know, but it's the same, it was the same mind frame for me.

You know, from when I was a kid.

So me being able to take a step back

but also still be laser-sharp and focused on what's the job at hand.

Um… it was not…

It's a sacrifice, but it's not something

I'm not willing to do for the betterment of the team.

It's been exciting to see. And it's also beautiful to watch.

A lot of people in the NBA call it blender.

Steve Kerr says when you knock the first domino down.

So whatever that is, that gets penetration.

I'm a big believer in paint touches.

You know, getting that first domino to fall,

getting that first paint touch, getting the blender, excites me.

Two things for you. One, you've always been receiving the screen.

You know when you're like, "I want 'em to slip,

I want 'em to flip the screen."

You now are in control of that, what the ball handler's feeling or seeing.

So you create more opportunities to catch on the short roll-and-play,

four-on -three, three-on-two, which is exciting.

The other thing that's-- and I want you to talk about that--

exciting to me is watching how you'll make quick decisions.

Guys, like, I'll give you a little anecdote.

Like, my responsibility with the Suns, for example,

was to create shots for our team, whether it's me or for someone else.

So although I made them, I was, believe it or not,

really uncomfortable in catch-and-shoot threes

because I might not get one for a week and a half.

It was all off the dribble.

And so I know sometimes it might be uncomfortable for you.

Luka's man just leans, he throws it outta the post for you to go.

You're used to surveying, "What do I got?"

-Absolutely. -But I've seen already,

you've been catching and going,

which brings me to a point that I really believe in,

and I think the best three examples

are you, Luka, and Nikola Jokić.

Not only are you guys incredible processors, you know,

see everything, have made every pass, can do all that,

but you all have the physicality to play bully ball.

So whether that's in the post with a mismatch,

whether that's I'm bigger, I'm faster than a big on the perimeter,

or whether that's you gotta close out on me and I'm just--

-if I can't get you clean. -Big shoulder.

Guess what? This guy's taking you to the rim,

and I can see over everyone.

I see you guys do this, you're looking at the guy in the corner

just as I get there, "Are you coming?"

Because I'm gonna hit the corner.

And he sees you, and you've put 'em in a bind.

You're playing cat and mouse.

That ability to make quick decisions, to play bully ball,

and if Luka can do the same thing, you know,

this is exciting for me

to see like you guys play off of each other.

A guy just leans the wrong way, the ball's gone, you drive.

He recovers, but…

Taking him to the rim, surveying, you're in rotations.

That to me is a separator of the three of you in our league.

Like a lot of guys can play bully ball,

a lot of guys, or not a lot,

but there's some computer processors.

But putting the two together, you know,

that's like what elevates, I think the three of you.

Two of you are on the same team.

Can you talk about how you feel about when Luka has the ball?

Are you reading or do you want two-man actions?

You're gonna have the best two defenders.

Sometimes Austin's gonna be the screener.

Because you can have the third defender.

And that's what we'll always be.

That's the scary thing, for the potential.

We still got so much room to grow, but now you look at it.

Okay, myself and Luka will have the two best defenders every night.

There's not many teams with a third defender,

and that third defender has to guard Austin Reeves.

You know, so we have the ability to interchange,

you know, how we want ball handler,

screener, or backside action.

You know, we could start an Angle Pop action

where the big comes up, set it, he pops,

we got a guy coming outta the slot.

-Whoever we want on the backside. - Anyone.

So we can start with Luka with the ball.

I come set the Angle Pop, I pop,

and now I'm going to a DHO with A.R.

Or A.R. could start it, I pop,

and I'm going to a corner pick-and-roll with Luka.

Like, we have the ability to do so many great things,

and then back what you were saying,

to be able to have those guys that can play bully ball,

but also have the brain

to be able to manipulate the game as well for the greater good.

It is something that it's the reason

why I've been able to do it at this level

for as long as I've been able to do it as well,

and then obviously, you know, Jokić

and what he's capable of doing every night

and what we've seen with Luka over this first seven years.

And it's exciting to see Austin grow too.

-Absolutely. -Right?

He's got the mentality, his skills keep getting better, you know,

but he has the mentality to like not worry about you two.

-Right. -Attack.

You've empowered him to do that, which is important,

but I love that he's just like, "I'm going."

He's not waiting around.

He's not waiting around like, "Oh, well, LeBron's over there."

[LeBron] No, he's like, "I got this too."

If you do run that action and you're DHO at the corner,

he's not waiting to get a switch and throw you in the post.

If he's got an attack, he's going. You have to play that way.

You can't be on your tiptoes. "While they switch, I gotta throw it to LeBron."

-You'll get it back. -You become the wrong computer.

Then you start overanalyzing the game,

and now you're not playing for just full of the game.

Now you're overprocessing the game.

That's what's exciting I think about the three of you,

the way he can feed off of you guys.

It's also been interesting to see,

when I saw the team come together, I thought,

"Hmm, I like the death lineup."

You at the five, or Rui, whoever you wanna say at the five.

Rui, Do, you know, the three of you on the perimeter.

Like, that's an exciting lineup, but it's actually been

the numbers are exciting for Jackson Hayes's minutes.

So it's been interesting to have that rim runner,

that live body, a little bit of length.

Defensively, your numbers have been outstanding,

and that's over a 12-plus-game period where you had A.D.,

you had no A.D. and no Luka, and now you have Luka.

It's continued through that period.

So maybe talk a little bit about like, the death lineup

versus Jackson versus how you want to defend

'cause what it feels to me, especially in the small positional size lineup,

you guys are big. You just don't have a center on the court.

Since last time, you look…

I love the way you guys have been in the gaps,

protecting the paint first, closing out, shifting over.

To me, that's the way you guys are gonna be tough to play.

First of all, I gotta give a big shout-out and credit to Jaxson Hayes, man.

You know, him stepping into that void losing A.D.,

you know, it's a lot. You know, it's a lot.

You know, it's a lot of scoring, a lot of protection defensively,

a lot of rebounding, a lot of blocked shots,

but I think Jaxson was just like, "I can't make up for that."

And we didn't ask him to make up for that.

We needed Jaxson to be high energy, you know,

be a force on offense, run the big, great screening,

lob threat, but he's just made great decisions.

He's been able to catch it in the pocket and, you know, stay on balance

and either being able to dunk it home

or find guys on the perimeter.

Jaxson has been unbelievable in his minutes,

and we're gonna need that from him.

We know, you know, how it unlocks Luka as well

when it comes to pick-and-roll with a lock threat.

You know, so having those minutes with Jaxson is key.

And then with our positioners lineup,

when you have Luka at six-seven,

you know, myself at six-nine, Do at six-eight,

Rui at six-nine, you know, Austin, six-five-and-a-half,

you know, there's no center out there…

-Positional size. -…but we're long.

We're big. We're athletic.

We're tough, you know, and we're scrappy.

You know, and to be able to, like you said,

be in the gaps, you know, help each other, communicate.

Even when things break down,

we were able to fly around and help one another.

You know, there was a play in the Dallas game

where Kyrie came off a pick-and-roll from Naji Marshall

at the top of the key.

And he was about to raise for three.

And we had two on the ball. And Luka was guarding Naji,

and, you know, we wanted him in coverage.

We didn't want the roller behind, but it's Kyrie.

He came off. He was about to shoot the three,

and Luka went to contest,

and at the last minute, Kyrie dumped it to Naji,

and now they have a four-on-three.

Doe Doe was on the ball, and instead of Doe Doe just staying there

and just looking at the play, when Naji was rolling,

I took the roll, and Doe Doe came out of the blitz from Kyrie

and ran all the way to the opposite corner,

made P.J. Washington drive back into me.

We got a stop, and then we got a dunk on the other end

in a pivotal point of the game.

And that's what it's about. Like, you know, it's not about

height and weight and whatever.

I mean, shit, you're a fucking prime example of that,

that it's not about height, how fast you are, how tall you are.

It's about the mind, the will,

and the communication and the process

that you have with your teammates out there like--

Speed of thought, reading.

-Absolutely. -Well, you can see it.

You know, I think the way you covered Jokić too,

the activity around swarming him crowding him, getting out though.

And of course, you wanna be organized defensively.

You wanna stick to your principles,

but to be an elite defensive team

or to be able to be better than maybe the sum of your parts,

you have to be able to read off each other.

'Cause not every play's perfect.

Yeah, and losing Anthony Davis,

who's a Defensive Player of the Year candidate every year,

it was either one or two things for us when we lost him.

It's either be the worst defensive team in the league,

or now it's like, "Oh, shit, we don't have A.D. to cover our asses."

-Sure. -Okay, we gotta play even harder now.

And we gotta cover for one another

'cause we can't rely on a blow-by every time.

And then I have a low man, and then A.D. blocks a shot.

We have to be on a stream in order for us to get stops.

And we know the game of the NBA is a game of the offense.

The offense, you know, how the game is reffed,

how the game is played.

It's for the offense, but defense and timely stops,

timely stops, one or two,

if you could get three stops in a row

in the crunch, you could crack a game open.

There was a tie game for us, in the Dallas game,

but we was able to get a couple stops,

a couple possessions, and then we was able to bump the lead back up.

-It's important. -And also the style of your defense.

That decision to be in the gaps, to take the paint away.

I'm a big believer in paint touches and in keeping the ball out of the paint.

'Cause that's where you get quality opportunities,

you get in rotations, harder decisions,

especially in the modern game.

Where the spacing created, by the way people can shoot,

how many shooters on the floor, how much you have to cover,

or when you get to schemes, how stretched those are,

how long closeouts and rotations, X-Outs,

two great shooters, rim runner, a great ball handler,

and you got two guys on the perimeter.

I mean, it's 10 skilled guys on the court.

It has to be like this, right? So to read, to be able to…

But it's early. You guys are just getting started.

You've shown good signs, but it's about the will now…

-Absolutely. -…like you've shown.

It's about the will and accountability. It's not gonna…

We're gonna have adverse times.

We know, and I know.

I know it's gonna happen. I don't know when, but it will.

We have a tough-ass stretch of games,

but at the end of the day, we're gonna have adverse times,

and it's us to be able to handle those adverse times

just as well and defeat just as well

as we do in wins, you know,

and then be able to hold each other accountable,

you know, and not feel like, okay.

Obviously, there's a way that you communicate,

and whatever the case may be,

but if we're serious about trying to make a push

and try to really compete for a championship,

then it shouldn't…

The message shouldn't be, you know…

Honesty and communication.

Being able to say, we gotta do better than that, right?

-Absolutely. -It's exciting, man,

'cause I wasn't sure you'd lose A.D. He's an anchor in any defense.

-He's so damn good. -And as good as Luka is,

you have to get stops, right?

Yeah, so I mean, I think it works for both franchises, man.

It's gonna be a process for Dallas.

It's definitely gonna be a process for us, but for us to be able to get Luka,

and I know the caliber of player in person that Dallas is getting in A.D.,

so I'm excited for him as well.

But like you said, you're gonna have tough times,

but on the micro level, you guys shit the bed against Charlotte.

Maybe you don't spank Denver if you don't shit the bed against Charlotte.

You know how that is. You learn more from the losses, right?

You start to pick out like,

"This is unacceptable, these are nonnegotiables.

Energy, that swarming defense we've seen in the last two games

with Denver and Dallas, like that was next level.

So I think part of it is going through those process,

being able to come back and say, "This is a process."

This is a process.

It's not, "Today we suck, today we're great," you can't play that.

And like you said,

you know, there's a non-negotiable

because the one thing about you can watch film

and say, "Okay, you guys have shown…"

You know, J.J. come in like, "You motherfuckers have shown me

what y'all capable of doing.

-Y'all have shown it." -Told on yourself.

So like, this right here is, it's non-negotiable.

Like, it's not negotiable.

You know, and to have that type

of upfront communication and dialogue,

you know, it makes it even better

because you're like, we're all competitors.

Like, everybody that's gotten

to the professional level have gotten there

because they've competed their ass off, you know?

And if you are able to be on a team

that can have the ability to compete for championships

or just compete to be in the process

of the, you know, playoffs or go down a stretch,

you love that type of communication.

You love that type of accountability.

-Growth mindset. -Absolutely.

I'm excited for you in that respect too

because I feel like you, with Luka,

you're freed up a little bit to lead,

to coach on the floor, to dissect rather than like,

I gotta get 36, 12, and 13, you know?

Like so I think it frees you up a little bit

to be like share your experiences,

slow everything down for you,

be like, "Hold on, this isn't gonna cut it."

You don't always have the…

Of course, you always played that way,

but you had so much on your plate physically

that you didn't have the space or the bandwidth mentally

to share like the growth margins that you have to meet.

So now I'm excited to see how you can also do that.

Me too, absolutely. All I gotta do is take care of myself,

and then it'll be better for the team.

Make sure I continue to get my sleep,

take care of my body, you know, do my stretches,

all that stuff, all my grounding,

all that type of shit, and I'll be fine,

but definitely, it's great to have a player like Luka,

you know, for sure, to be able

to do what he want to do out there, man.

Like you said, he has that mind frame, man, in that space.

I can see by the smile on your face.

Before we, you know, move on,

what about this quarterback,

wide receiver relationship we see going,

sometimes tight end button hooking in L.A.,

sometimes running out, getting over the top?

-It looks fun. -No, it's extremely fun.

As far as the full-court passing,

being able to run, I haven't had it since Kevin Love.

You know, it was different because Kevin Love,

you know, he was damn good at it too,

when it comes to the full court outletting,

and, you know, now being with a guy like Luka who can…

You can tell, you know, certain guys,

when the ball's in the air,

they're already looking at the play

before they even get the ball.

And you know, being a former receiver in high school,

you know, kind of seeing the ball come

and not, you know, showing my hand to the cornerback.

I learned that a lot from Randy Moss when I was growing up.

He said a lot of times he would run his routes,

and he wouldn't raise his hand up too soon

because if the defender is trailing him,

if he raised his hand up too soon, the defender know the ball is coming.

He would try to wait 'til the last moment,

you know, to put his hand up, and now the cornerback wouldn't see it.

And I learned that in watching Randy Moss when I played in high school.

And I try to do that in the game as well.

In the Denver game, you know, the long pass

that Luka threw me had that moment there

where I kind of did it to Michael Porter Jr.

It was taking off, and I saw the ball coming,

and I didn't want to open my hands up until the ball was right there,

and I was able to finish--

I'm gonna have mine for the opposite, when you give the fake up

and then button hook in the lane.

Let 'em run back in front.

-Yeah. -That's great, man.

Yo, we back at it, man. We back at it, man.

Mind the Game here with Steve Nash, two-time MVP, man, let's give it up!