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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:08,120 This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,160 West Germany is now a prosperous democracy. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,560 Kurt Kiesinger is the Chancellor. 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,200 He is speaking at his party's annual conference. 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,560 But 29-year-old Beate Klarsfeld 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,680 has discovered a dark secret about Kiesinger... 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,000 ..and she wants to tell the world. 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,640 When she finally obtains a press card 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,880 and is standing in the main hall pressing a notebook to her body, 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,600 pretending she's a journalist, 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,400 she is extremely nervous, extremely tense. 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,680 She knows how risky this is. 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,800 She approaches Kiesinger from behind... 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,000 ..and she slaps him into the face, shouting, "Nazi! Nazi!" 15 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,280 Kiesinger is one of many former Nazis 16 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,960 who have returned to positions of power in Germany. 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,240 The fact that a former Nazi 18 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,160 can become Head of State of Western Germany 19 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,320 is absolutely inacceptable and scandalous to Beate. 20 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:38,440 She's doing this to wake up the German population. 21 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,240 It's a warning sign that the younger people 22 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,320 are not accepting this any more. 23 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,880 Lacrimosa from Mozart's Requiem in D minor 24 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,800 After the Second World War, 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,760 some of the worst war criminals in history go to ground. 26 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:03,080 Hoping that in the near future, their fortunes will change 27 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,120 and they would be players again. 28 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,120 Many change their names. 29 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,920 And the most wanted flee to South America. 30 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,000 Others claim the Holocaust never happened 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,880 or had nothing to do with them. 32 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,720 Told by historians and experts, 33 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,560 this is the story of the little-known people 34 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,560 searching for truth and justice. 35 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,480 Trying to confront this man who is the murderer of her entire family. 36 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,120 It's a hostile environment. 37 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,760 What kind of men are they? Are they mad? 38 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,320 They must be mad. 39 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:46,080 The hunt for Nazi war criminals is without any parallel, 40 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,120 to my knowledge, either before or since. 41 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,080 It's a hunt taking place against the backdrop of a world 42 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,800 that wants to forget and move on. 43 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,960 Justice for him was everything. 44 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,640 I'm upset that he died without being in a cage. 45 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,480 By the 1960s, the Second World War is a distant memory. 46 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,600 Official Nazi hunting ended over a decade ago. 47 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,840 But there are a handful of people still determined 48 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,800 to bring the thousands of Nazi war criminals still at large to justice. 49 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,760 They've tracked down an anonymous Nazi bureaucrat - Adolf Eichmann... 50 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,120 ..the man who organised the Final Solution. 51 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,280 Adolf Eichmann faces the most appalling list of charges 52 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,080 ever to be levelled against a single human being. 53 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,680 Eichmann is found guilty and executed. 54 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,000 As news of his fate spreads... 55 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,600 ..it sends a signal to the murderers and torturers 56 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,360 who have been leading ordinary lives ever since. 57 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,280 They might not be safe after all. 58 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,800 One of them is Josef Mengele... 59 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,640 ..former SS officer and physician at the largest Nazi death camp, 60 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,160 Auschwitz-Birkenau. 61 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,160 He wasn't somebody in World War II that anybody who was at the top 62 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,800 of the Third Reich would have ever heard of. 63 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,800 The only people that knew him were the survivors of Auschwitz. 64 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,120 For them, he was the most important highest ranking Nazi of them all. 65 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,600 And he thought that he could, in Auschwitz, 66 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,640 use the people who were being sent there to die 67 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,400 as experiments to advance the cause 68 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,800 of this sort of Nazi racial science and eugenics 69 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,440 that had just exploded since the time Hitler came to power in '33. 70 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,560 And why is it that Mengele stands out? 71 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:33,920 Not just because he did so much, but because of who he did it on. 72 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,480 He did it on children. 73 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,600 Most of his experiment victims were twins. 74 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,400 One twin is the control, one twin is the experiment. 75 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Over a period of time, he does a series of experiments. 76 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,480 Some of them involved trying to turn eyes into blue eyes. 77 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,120 There's a wall of eyes, 78 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,280 a wall of eyes that are pinned to a bulletin board. 79 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:14,120 His barbarity becomes more unchained and worse the longer he's there. 80 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,440 For over a decade, Mengele has been living 81 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760 in the right-wing military dictatorships 82 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,560 of Argentina and Paraguay, 83 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,960 where thousands of former Nazis escaped to after the war. 84 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Going to the finest cafes in Buenos Aires, 85 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,960 hanging out with architects, talking about German music, 86 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,080 taking skiing vacations in Bariloche up in the mountains. 87 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,080 The kidnapping of Eichmann, his trial and his execution 88 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,920 puts into Mengele the foundations for paranoia. 89 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,360 For the first time since the end of World War II, 90 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,560 the man who was responsible for sending hundreds of thousands 91 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,760 to their death, and experimented on thousands of children 92 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,040 in ways that are absolutely gruesome and horrendous, is afraid. 93 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,720 Mengele feels he has no option but to flee his comfortable city life. 94 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,000 Being in the phone book, having a medical supply business - 95 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,280 poof, out, finished. 96 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:24,960 Now you're the fugitive. 97 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,040 Back in Germany, there could be a more serious threat to Mengele 98 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,680 from within his own family. 99 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,880 His son, Rolf, has been growing up unaware of his father's existence. 100 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,560 So, Rolf Mengele in 1960, 16 years of age, 101 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,080 is a pretty typical 16-year-old. 102 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,920 He's not burdened by any sense of history, 103 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,080 or family legacy, or World War II. 104 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,680 He believes his own father died a war hero on the Eastern front. 105 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,440 That's all he needs to know. 106 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,400 Now Rolf's 16, 107 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,200 his family decide it's time to come clean about his father. 108 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,520 He is called in and what he learns... 109 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,680 ..in a discussion with his family, 110 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,520 from the people that he trusts the most, 111 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,040 the people that he views as having raised him, 112 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,560 is that they have had this terrible lie about his life. 113 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,600 His father isn't dead. 114 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,120 He's still alive. 115 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,840 He's not in Germany, he's in South America. 116 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040 And not only was he alive, 117 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,760 he was accused of these terrible crimes in the war. 118 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,520 You want to turn an adolescent's world upside down? 119 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,240 Have it be Rolf Mengele. 120 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,680 As the children of the Third Reich come of age, 121 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,680 many start to ask questions about their country's past. 122 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:47,520 21-year-old Beate Kunzel has just moved from Berlin 123 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,600 to start a new life in Paris. 124 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,720 It's a beautiful city, so different from the monotony of Berlin. 125 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,320 When Beate arrives in Paris, 126 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,560 she feels a huge sense of liberation and relief. 127 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Beate soon falls in love with a young Parisian 128 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,560 called Serge Klarsfeld. 129 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,560 Serge tells Beate that he's Jewish 130 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:20,640 and that his father was deported to Auschwitz and murdered there. 131 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,560 He's the one who tells her for the first time 132 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:36,480 about the extermination of Jewish people. 133 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,160 And that turns her world upside down. 134 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,640 Beate is shocked, she's surprised, she's moved, 135 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,600 but her first reaction is to hold back. 136 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,520 She has rarely heard a good word about the Jews 137 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,920 and she was told to be suspicious of Jewish people. 138 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,400 Beate was just six years old when the war ended. 139 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,080 Beate remembers that time full of confusion, 140 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,440 full of despair, bitterness, hunger, poverty. 141 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,440 She played in the ruins of Berlin, 142 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,440 but she didn't really understand what happened during the Nazi years. 143 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,160 Nobody talked about the extermination of the Jewish people. 144 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,640 If she would have asked questions, 145 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,520 she probably wouldn't have gotten any responses. 146 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,200 The more Serge tells her about the brutal reality of Nazism, 147 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,440 and the more she understands what had happened 148 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,160 to millions of Jews during that time, 149 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,120 it destroys her world the way she has seen it until that moment. 150 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Learning from Serge and his tragic family story 151 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,440 changes the way Beate thinks about being German and about Germany. 152 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,600 I feel very close to Beate in a sense that when I, as a German, 153 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,600 got married to my Jewish husband, Pascal, 154 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,600 and learned about his tragic family story, 155 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,000 it shaped my way of how I feel of being German 156 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,800 and it made me a German of conscience and awareness. 157 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,680 Five years later, Beate is married to Serge. 158 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,840 Haunted by the fact that it was her people who murdered his father, 159 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,160 she wants to right the wrongs of her country's past. 160 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,440 Beate's story is a classic coming-of-age story. 161 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,040 As soon as she breaks free and chooses her own way, 162 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,520 she wakes up, she can blossom, 163 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,120 and she discovers who she really is and what she is capable of doing. 164 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,560 She finds, in those years, her true calling, 165 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,320 pursuing justice on behalf of millions of victims 166 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:11,840 of the Holocaust. 167 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,840 She doesn't really have much time on her hands, 168 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,240 but still every minute she and Serge have, 169 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,040 they dedicate to collect and compile all the information 170 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,720 of former Nazis and victims they can. 171 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,400 Considering where her life begins... 172 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,960 ..her transformation is even more remarkable. 173 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,600 Beate focuses on Nazis who were active in occupied France 174 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,240 when Serge's father was deported to Auschwitz. 175 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,080 One of the worst of them is former SS officer Klaus Barbie. 176 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,040 In 1942, aged 29, 177 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,040 he became a Nazi Secret Police Chief in Southern France. 178 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,720 He was known as the Butcher of Lyon 179 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,800 because of his reputation for extreme cruelty. 180 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,040 He was responsible for the arrest 181 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,080 of thousands of Jews hiding in France 182 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,720 and resistance fighters, torturing them, killing them. 183 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:30,480 He seems to have taken great joy out of causing pain to his victims. 184 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,920 But Barbie is most notorious for sending 44 French children 185 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,280 to their deaths at Auschwitz. 186 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,000 After the war, to avoid capture, 187 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,040 he secretly worked as an informant for American intelligence, 188 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,400 as the Cold War began to escalate. 189 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,320 Then, in 1951, 190 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,200 his reputation as a torturer and murderer caught up with him 191 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,120 and he was forced to flee Europe via the Nazi Ratline for Bolivia. 192 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,560 He's been living here for 15 years under the alias Klaus Altmann. 193 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,200 He has a network of Nazi comrades he can rely on. 194 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,040 He can be very social, he can be very charming. 195 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,160 Having beers, talking about Germany, Europe, the good old times, 196 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,120 is something that he enjoys to do. 197 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,560 But while doing that, he also doesn't hold back sometimes 198 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,120 of his views. 199 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,400 He makes pretty clear he still admires Hitler, 200 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,560 the Nazi regime, that he is an anti-Semite, he hates the Jews. 201 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,760 It's not just fellow Germans that Barbie's in cahoots with. 202 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,720 His anti-Communist views and knowledge of torture techniques 203 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,480 make him useful to the right-wing military dictatorship 204 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:52,760 here in Bolivia. 205 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,280 He's back into the game in Bolivia in the 1960s. 206 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,960 He was very much attracted to their ideology... 207 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,520 ..the world of the military, spies and terrorism 208 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:23,000 and intelligence and double agents and coup d'etats. 209 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,440 All of that reminded him of the past years of his life 210 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,440 where he had the most power and had this career. 211 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,600 He could have stayed away, but he didn't. 212 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,680 Beate gathers evidence about Barbie's crimes. 213 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,840 She lobbies the French government 214 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,680 to help her track him down and bring him to justice. 215 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,240 Beate's challenge is that in the 1960s, 216 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:13,960 the German economy is booming. 217 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,880 People's lives are on the up, 218 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,800 so the last thing on their minds is bringing old Nazis to justice. 219 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,760 In those years, Beate is the moral conscience of Europe. 220 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,960 She has this internal conviction. 221 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,760 In that way, she is absolutely unique. 222 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,160 Some older Germans think she is just very annoying, 223 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,960 a young woman who was a child during the war, 224 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,160 who doesn't know much, who just makes a lot of noise. 225 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,440 But she is relentless and she's unstoppable. 226 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,120 And Beate is right to be concerned. 227 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,640 One high-ranking Nazi is about to be released 228 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,800 from a 20-year prison sentence. 229 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,680 At one minute to midnight, Albert Speer, 230 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,920 Hitler's once close friend and Armaments Minister, 231 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,240 appears in a top-of-the-range Mercedes. 232 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:58,760 Yeah. 233 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,840 A pop star, a rock star is leaving prison. 234 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,520 Speer escaped the noose at Nuremberg 235 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,720 after playing a clever game in court. 236 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,040 Speer was deeply involved in the persecution of the Jews. 237 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,000 In close cooperation with Himmler, 238 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,120 he prepared the deportation of Berlin Jews to concentration camps. 239 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,240 He definitely should have hanged. 240 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,520 He's happy that he has survived Spandau 241 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,200 and that, now, he can look into the future. 242 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,560 Now, I am no linguist, you see, 243 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,080 but I can tell you that I am quite glad to be outside here. 244 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:12,720 Ja, danke schon. 245 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,680 Speer sees an opportunity to capitalise on his celebrity status. 246 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,720 Whilst in prison, he's been writing his memoirs. 247 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,720 Shortly after his release, he has lunch with a publisher. 248 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,080 He knows that the public is eager to hear from him, 249 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,480 what he has to say about Hitler, because he was so close. 250 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,200 And the difference between him 251 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,480 and the other members of Hitler's inner circle 252 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,400 is that he is ready to talk. 253 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:59,400 He wants to dominate the interpretation of the Third Reich. 254 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,280 Speer has every reason to think he will regain his former status. 255 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,240 Against a backdrop of collective amnesia in West Germany, 256 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,000 former Nazis are doing very well for themselves. 257 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,440 In the 1960s, they make up over half the country's lawyers and judges, 258 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,520 a third of Members of Parliament and half of all civil servants. 259 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,040 Right at the top of the tree 260 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,000 is the new German Chancellor, Kurt Kiesinger, 261 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,800 a former high-ranking Nazi 262 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,720 who disseminated anti-Semitic propaganda. 263 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,360 Any hope of changing this old world order 264 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,600 now rests with a new generation. 265 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,600 In 1968, students around the world protest against state militaries, 266 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,040 bureaucracy and civil injustice. 267 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,480 Young people everywhere 268 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,320 are challenging the status quo of their parents. 269 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,880 For young Germans, this is more complicated than for most, 270 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,720 particularly if you are Rolf Mengele. 271 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,680 You could be in the new German generation and move forward 272 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,040 and be worried about the issues that were driving students' movements. 273 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,040 But if your father was a wanted war criminal, 274 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,120 that was hanging in the back of your mind constantly during this period. 275 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,360 So, to be Mengele's son 276 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:51,160 was the worst possible child to be of a Nazi, in Rolf's view. 277 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,240 And he carried that with him. 278 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,200 Then it became more of an anchor around his neck. 279 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,640 Josef Mengele is now living in rural isolation in Brazil, 280 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,120 oblivious to the new ideas taking hold in the wider world. 281 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,920 He's now stuck pretty much on this farm. 282 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,320 He doesn't go into town, he doesn't go shopping, 283 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,840 he doesn't decide to meet other people. 284 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,640 When he does venture a little bit away from the farmhouse, 285 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,240 he makes sure that he has this pack of stray dogs with him. 286 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,920 This was a period in which he had had his world pulled out from under him, 287 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,080 afraid he was going to be caught, executed and humiliated. 288 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,000 Feeling isolated, Mengele decides to reach out to his son. 289 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,080 I believe that Rolf would have preferred 290 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,920 that his father did not write to him. 291 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,680 I believe that Rolf would have been quite relieved 292 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,840 if he got the news, somebody said, "Your father's dead." 293 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,080 The letters force Rolf to confront the real possibility 294 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,000 of turning his father in. 295 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,600 His father is on the run longer than any other, 296 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,200 and he knows his father's alive and where he is 297 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,920 and is in communication with him. 298 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,840 Rolf must resolve for himself this moral quandary - 299 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,480 "What did my father do?", and how much responsibility he had. 300 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,200 He can't find that out by writing letters to him. 301 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,400 He must travel to South America and confront his father. 302 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,360 Three years after his release from prison, 303 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,400 Speer's much-awaited memoir - Inside the Third Reich - 304 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,320 is published. 305 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,520 As the surviving member of Hitler's close inner circle, 306 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,640 this could be his chance to tell the truth about the Nazi regime. 307 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:44,200 Speer depicts Hitler as the big, huge, god-like Fuhrer... 308 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,800 ..and all others are kind of manipulated. 309 00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,080 Speer appears in his memoirs as a victim, a victim of Hitler, 310 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,040 who just wanted to be an architect, who was innocent, 311 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,280 a young, ambitious man who - by chance - 312 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,280 met the dictator. 313 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,120 Rather than speaking truthfully for the sake of history, 314 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,720 Speer speaks for the sake of himself. 315 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,600 It's the same strategy he used to save himself from execution 316 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,840 at the Nuremberg trials 25 years ago. 317 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,520 Speer plays a clever game. 318 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,400 In his memoirs, Speer appears as a witness. 319 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,680 He is not a perpetrator. 320 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,800 He admits a general responsibility for the regime, 321 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:49,240 but he denies any personal guilt 322 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,560 for the atrocities committed by the Nazis. 323 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,680 He knows perfectly well that he's lying. 324 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,720 Speer makes countless public appearances. 325 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,000 I thought that you are prepared to admit that you knew about Auschwitz. 326 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800 Well, erm... You didn't pursue your enquiries 327 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280 to discover the dimensions of what was happening. No, no... 328 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,120 But surely you knew about Auschwitz and... 329 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,360 No, that's not, it's not... I didn't write that. 330 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,520 You know that the Final Solution was a secret 331 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,360 and it was a secret to me too. 332 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,720 There are still many, many problems, 333 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,600 many problems of trying to comprehend, trying to understand. 334 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,760 I wouldn't want to say, for myself, 335 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,760 that you cleared up all of those problems today. 336 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,240 Well, to me, nowadays, it's incomprehensible too. 337 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:48,800 But I was thinking as a specialist and not thinking as a human being. 338 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,880 And it was so specialised in my job as an architect, as I was, 339 00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:00,880 that I forgot that humanity is the most important part of life. 340 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,320 But is your life a tranquil life now? 341 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,080 Or are you haunted by recollections all the time? 342 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,560 I think I got rid of what happened by writing this book. 343 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,120 This happens often and I'm not haunted at all. 344 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:30,320 His legend works because he eases the conscience of the Germans. 345 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:37,200 He provides an exonerating story - an alibi - 346 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,120 for all Germans. 347 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,680 "If Speer had not known, 348 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,760 "how could we have known about the atrocities?" 349 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,200 Speer is their symbol, they believe him. 350 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,520 His book is their Bible. 351 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,240 Inside the Third Reich becomes an instant bestseller... 352 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,480 ..and within a year, Speer has earned 353 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,160 almost a million Deutschmarks in royalties. 354 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,360 He becomes a wealthy man again. 355 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,560 On the other side of the world, 356 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,000 another prominent Nazi is about to hit the headlines. 357 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,960 Beate Klarsfeld has tracked down a Klaus Altmann living in La Paz, 358 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:50,480 whom she strongly suspects is Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon. 359 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,920 After being approached by a journalist, 360 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,840 Altmann is now giving an interview. 361 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,400 Maybe he was so convinced of himself 362 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,760 that giving an interview to kind of push forward, 363 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,920 go into counterattack and telling the world, 364 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,320 "No, you're wrong, I'm telling you honestly here, 365 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,280 "I'm not hiding, I'm not this person, I'm not Klaus Barbie." 366 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,600 Maybe he was under the illusion that this strategy would work. 367 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,440 And so the French journalist starts asking questions 368 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,360 and they continue their conversation in German. 369 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,240 But then a very clever trick by the French journalist is 370 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,440 in the middle of the German conversation, 371 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,520 he asked Altmann - Barbie - a question in French. 372 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,120 And Altmann - Barbie - 373 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,520 understands the question perfectly well and responds. 374 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,520 It is not proof, 375 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,640 but it is an indication that this Altmann is lying. 376 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,560 This is sensational. 377 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,720 Showing that he understands French means that this is Klaus Barbie, 378 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,840 this is not Klaus Altmann. 379 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,080 This is the Butcher of Lyon, 380 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,160 one of the most horrible, atrocious war criminals. 381 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,760 And now she knows where he is, 382 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,640 and she knows also that she needs to use this momentum 383 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,840 to get as much international publicity as she can, 384 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,800 to increase the pressure on both the Bolivian 385 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,520 and the French governments to extradite him, 386 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,720 so that he can finally be tried and brought to justice. 387 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,400 Days later, Beate flies to La Paz. 388 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,440 Accompanying her is Ita Halaunbrenner. 389 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,000 Barbie murdered her husband during the war... 390 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,760 ..and her two young daughters were among the 44 children 391 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,960 Barbie sent to die at Auschwitz. 392 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,920 Bringing one of Barbie's victims to Bolivia 393 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,000 and let her tell her own life story 394 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,960 and the tremendous, horrible losses she suffered under Barbie is... 395 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,320 It's the most effective thing she can do. 396 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,240 Let the victim talk. 397 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,120 Going to Bolivia is very risky. 398 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,520 It's a hostile environment. 399 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,680 This country is a right-wing military dictatorship. 400 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,280 But, of course, Beate being Beate, she does whatever she wants. 401 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,120 She is not scared by that. 402 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:43,840 Unsurprisingly, Barbie refuses to meet Beate and Ita, 403 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,760 so they chain themselves to a bench outside his office. 404 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:02,280 Klaus Barbie is used to spies and intelligence 405 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,880 and blackmail and double agents and betrayal. 406 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,200 And then he is confronting now 407 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,080 an opponent which totally don't fit the bill. 408 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,160 They are morally upright people. 409 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,640 They're standing for a good cause. They have no hidden agenda. 410 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,240 It must have been very confusing to him. 411 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,240 When Beate is asked what those chains mean, 412 00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:35,200 she says, "Those are the chains that link Bolivia to Nazism." 413 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:39,960 The police arrive, confiscate the signs, 414 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,760 but that doesn't stop Beate and Ita. 415 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,640 They remain on the bench, calling for Barbie's extradition. 416 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,520 Beate realises her attempts to capture Barbie are futile 417 00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,040 when a government official tells her Bolivia is a protected asylum 418 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,560 and those who take refuge there are sacrosanct. 419 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,320 Within days, Beate is arrested and deported back to France. 420 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,360 The Butcher of Lyon is safe for now. 421 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,000 But the publicity generated around Beate's visit 422 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,080 has exposed his crimes to the world 423 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,160 and he decides he needs to retaliate. 424 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,120 Mirna Murillo is one of the journalists 425 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,720 who reported on Barbie's crimes in the wake of Beate's visit. 426 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,360 So, listening to her testimony, it almost feels like time travelling. 427 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,600 Nothing has changed. 428 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,600 We are back into Lyon at the Gestapo headquarters. 429 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,920 You know, Klaus Barbie sneaking in and looking at her... 430 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,080 ..it almost seems like he wants to send out a signal, 431 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,280 that he is in charge, that he can pull this off, 432 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,920 that this can happen to anyone who tries to get after him. 433 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,440 Rolf Mengele has finally decided to travel to South America 434 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,800 to confront his father, Josef Mengele, 435 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,440 about the crimes he committed at Auschwitz. 436 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,080 What he hopes he will hear is his father to say, 437 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,640 "Auschwitz, that was really a terrible place. 438 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,880 "I hated it. I never wanted to be there, but I had to. 439 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,360 "I couldn't leave. 440 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,840 "And I've been tortured by it and I wake up at nights 441 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,320 "and it's a nightmare for me and I don't know what to do." 442 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,920 Rolf's approach is not to be confrontational at the start. 443 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,440 Josef is the one who takes the issue of Auschwitz. 444 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,800 At first, he says, "I was ordered to do that. 445 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,960 "They were my orders. I didn't invent Auschwitz." 446 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,360 Yes, he's just a functionary, he's a cog in the big machine. 447 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,880 Rolf lets that go on for quite a while 448 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,840 before he then turns the tables 449 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,760 into becoming the cross-examining attorney and pushing his father. 450 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,400 Then, "If you felt like that, why didn't you do this? 451 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,360 "Why didn't you turn yourself in? 452 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,160 "Why don't you go ahead and tell the world what happened?" 453 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,520 And at that moment, there is a breaking point. 454 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,880 The real ideologue comes out, the real Nazi comes out, 455 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,680 the real eugenics scientist who thought that he was at the forefront 456 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,080 of engineering a master race - 457 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:20,440 "Those children, who are now adults, who describe the experiments 458 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,800 "and for which I am wanted would have been dead 459 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,200 "if I hadn't pulled them aside and saved their lives." 460 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,640 And in his warped vision of the world, 461 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,560 he should be thanked for that. 462 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,480 He is captured in this World War II nationalist, 463 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:52,320 socialist ideology and medical quackery about superior races 464 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,480 and he cannot come out of it, because to do so would be to shatter 465 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,760 his carefully thought of defence as to why he's not a monster. 466 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,080 He's not going to admit it in front of his son, 467 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,120 he can't come close to admitting it. 468 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,560 And Rolf understands that. 469 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:13,920 It's clear as a bell. 470 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,600 He's learned all he needs to know 471 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,440 about his unrepentant, war criminal father. 472 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,320 Rolf is now key to facilitating the wheels of justice. 473 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,760 What is most important after the visit 474 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,280 is what Rolf decides not to do. 475 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,640 I'd like Rolf to storm out of the house and get on a plane 476 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,680 and fly back to Germany and say, "You are a criminal", 477 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,000 and call up the police. 478 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,920 Of course that's what I would like. But he doesn't do that. 479 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,480 He now knows that if his father is put on trial, 480 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,840 it's a disaster for the family, 481 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:12,280 because his father is not going to say, "I'm sorry, I plead guilty," 482 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,840 and it's going to be humiliating and personally destructive 483 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,920 for anybody connected to Josef Mengele. 484 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,040 I absolutely criticise him. 485 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,440 You had a duty to the victims. 486 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,800 He could have done things differently. 487 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:50,480 In 1978, after decades of denial about the crimes of the Nazis, 488 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,360 a big budget TV drama series, The Holocaust, 489 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,600 is broadcast in the US and a year later in Germany. 490 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,880 Holocaust research started really seriously out in the 1960s. 491 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,680 It started with academics at universities. 492 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,760 But that didn't reach a wider audience at first. 493 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,160 When the Holocaust television series runs, 494 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,160 it is as if a light switch turns on in Germany 495 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,880 and in other countries about the crimes of World War II. 496 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,320 This television event brings it home into everybody's living room. 497 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,280 They were able to see it, they talked about it, it's high rated. 498 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:36,360 The Holocaust mini-series changed how the Germans viewed themselves. 499 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,200 The series is like a mirror. 500 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,360 For many of them, 501 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,400 this is the first time - even if it is fictitious - 502 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,000 to see what happened in the gas chambers 503 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,080 and in the concentration camps. 504 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,080 It is a unique way of showing Germans 505 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,520 what they inflicted on Jewish people. 506 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,600 In this era of public awakening about Germany's dark past, 507 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,840 Josef Mengele features in popular culture as the ultimate bogeyman. 508 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,760 He now becomes the focus of all of the attention of Nazi hunters. 509 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,200 He becomes the Angel of Death, the fugitive still missing. 510 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,120 In 1976, there was a movie, Marathon Man, 511 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,760 based upon a character that looks like Mengele. 512 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,640 The year after that, there's a movie made, 513 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,880 Boys from Brazil, in which he's named. 514 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,120 But his son Rolf continues to stay silent 515 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,240 about his father's whereabouts. 516 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,480 Then Rolf gets a visit from one of his father's contacts. 517 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:56,040 Josef Mengele has drowned after suffering a stroke 518 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,480 while swimming off the coast of Brazil. 519 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,480 When Rolf first got the news about his father's death in 1979, 520 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,320 it was a tremendous relief - 521 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,400 because Josef Mengele, his father, was an obligation, 522 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,640 was a burden that he had to think about in the back of his mind. 523 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,120 Much better that resolution than a trial. 524 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:28,080 He's then faced with a much lower bar to pass the moral, 525 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,080 you know, test of doing the right thing - 526 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,400 stop the hunt for his father, 527 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,240 so that the people who were his victims at Auschwitz 528 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,080 don't keep looking for this ghost. 529 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,440 If he wasn't going to turn him in, 530 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,640 which would have been the dream scenario, 531 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,760 then at the very least to have told us he was dead. 532 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,880 It's not until six years later, 533 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,000 when the New York Times breaks a story 534 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,040 that Mengele's remains have been discovered in Brazil, 535 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,400 that the hunt for the Angel of Death comes to an end. 536 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:19,080 I'm upset that he died without being in a cage. 537 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,800 Having Mengele, who had blood on his hands, 538 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,600 who was in the heart of the Final Solution at Auschwitz, 539 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,560 testifying in a trial 540 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,760 would have been remarkably important for history. 541 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,640 We're robbed of that. He got away. 542 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,200 Closer to home, Albert Speer is being interviewed 543 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,840 about his architecture for a BBC documentary. 544 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,520 Hitler's hobby was architecture, and it was difficult to change his, 545 00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,560 erm, his designs... 546 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,960 ..without offending him. 547 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,240 At the end of his life, 548 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:11,720 Speer still likes to be a celebrity and he does interviews. 549 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,640 But at the same time, 550 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:21,880 Speer is annoyed by talking always about the past. 551 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,920 He wants to have a present again. 552 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,120 He flees Germany, he flees his own myth. 553 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:37,720 Speer has a relationship with a German woman living in London. 554 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,480 When he's in England, he's kind of unknown. 555 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:53,400 After the interview, he met his girlfriend in a hotel in London 556 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,760 and he suffered a stroke and he died on that same day. 557 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:07,960 He prolonged the war and he was responsible for millions of deaths. 558 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:15,640 He is a perpetrator, but at the same time, he got away with everything. 559 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,960 Speer's legacy is not his architecture... 560 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,640 ..but his Nazi past. 561 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,760 Beate Klarsfeld now has to find the Nazis still out there 562 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,400 before it's too late. 563 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,360 After almost two decades of struggling for justice, 564 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,840 Beate and her husband, Serge, 565 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,280 are among the most prolific Nazi hunters in the world. 566 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,000 The Klarsfelds are well known throughout Europe 567 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,600 for their very interesting home movies. 568 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,680 It was very easy to find Herbert Hagen, 569 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,440 and Beate jumped immediately to the car and I told him, 570 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,400 "Are you the same Mr Hagen 571 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,520 "who was one of the highest leaders of the Gestapo in France?" 572 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,600 As a result of their direct action, 573 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,440 former SS officer Herbert Hagen is brought to trial for his role 574 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,440 in the deportation of 73,000 Jews to Auschwitz... 575 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,720 ..as is another of their targets, Kurt Lischka... 576 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,440 ..who they had even attempted to kidnap in the 1970s. 577 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,360 And Chancellor Kurt Kiesinger is voted out of power 578 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,840 a year after Beate revealed his Nazi past with a slap. 579 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,600 But the Nazi at the top of Beate's case file, Klaus Barbie, 580 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,040 continues to elude her... 581 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,880 ..until the 1980s. 582 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,400 In Bolivia, a new left-leaning 583 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,480 democratically elected government takes power. 584 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,080 The new government declares to come to a conclusion 585 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,960 and to deal with Klaus Altmann, Klaus Barbie. 586 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,880 He cannot rely on the political establishment 587 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,840 and the protection any more of the military 588 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,920 that he could rely on for so many years now. 589 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,600 The new government, from his point of view, is the enemy. 590 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:15,600 And also, the times have changed. We're now in the '80s. 591 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,640 The world understands much more what happened, 592 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,120 the nature of the Nazi regime, the nature of its crimes 593 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,200 and also the role of Klaus Barbie in it. 594 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,440 So, it does not look very good for him. 595 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,480 His days in Bolivia are numbered. 596 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,920 Beate knows now this is her moment, 597 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,240 this is the time she's been waiting for for over ten years, 598 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,280 and she immediately jumps into action. 599 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,640 She knows she only has a very small window of opportunity, 600 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,640 maybe just a few days. 601 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,640 She simultaneously negotiates with the Bolivian government 602 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,080 and the French government. 603 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,400 Her biggest priority now is to make sure 604 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,800 that if he gets extradited that he's not being sent to Germany, 605 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,040 where the sentence could be much less than in France. 606 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,280 This could be potentially the biggest victory 607 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,440 of her lifelong fight. 608 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,520 Under Bolivian law, Barbie can only be arrested 609 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,680 and extradited for a crime he's committed in Bolivia. 610 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,120 But the authorities are already one step ahead. 611 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,680 They discover that Barbie has an unpaid business debt. 612 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,360 On the 4th of February 1983, 613 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,840 the Butcher of Lyon is finally forced 614 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,920 to leave his South American safe haven. 615 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,960 One of his first fears... 616 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,360 ..is now coming true - 617 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,160 that he is being handed over to the French. 618 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,880 He wanted to avoid this by all means possible. 619 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,320 To be forced to return to the scene of the crime, 620 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,240 this is the worst possible outcome. 621 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,480 He is not the strong, self-confident Klaus Barbie 622 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,840 that can survive everything. 623 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,200 He is really a broken man from that point on 624 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,720 and his will seems to be broken. 625 00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:01,000 I think this is the surrender that he avoided in May 1945. 626 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,720 This is his personal surrender. 627 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,680 On arrival in France, 628 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,640 Barbie is taken to Montluc jail in Lyon, 629 00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:00,040 where he personally tortured so many of his victims 40 years ago. 630 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,600 Here he remains until his trial. 631 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,520 She is the engine behind all this. 632 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:58,000 There can't be any justice for the murder of 6 million people, 633 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:04,320 but what those trials can bring is some redemption to the many victims. 634 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:18,960 She also knows this is just a milestone and her fight continues 635 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,480 as long as others are still free and unpunished. 54542

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