Original subtitles

Mr President thanks very much for being

with us you call your book victories

defeat and renewal now is there a

renewal of Richard Nixon underway with

the Bush Administration are you

consulted do you occupy the position in

American life that you'd like to

occupy well the position I occupy is one

of saying what I believe as I do in this

program uh and from time to time uh

passing on My Views to the

administration when I think it might be

of use to them

uh as far as being the power behind the

throne the major advisor that's all

nonsense I am not and nobody else is and

George Bush wouldn't like it and he

shouldn't like it how much do you get

consulted by uh the

president uh he is very receptive to My

Views when I pass them on but let me say

I don't do it very often it's only when

I think it's I have experience in an

area that some of his advisers may not

be up to speed on that I pass something

on uh but I having been president I know

that there's nothing that you appreciate

less than to have well-intentioned even

former presidents calling and say why

don't you do this why don't you do that

and so forth and so on the president's

problems basically are not primarily

with his enemies they're with his

friends who think they know how to run

the thing better than he does and I

never want to be in that position with

George G how do you feel toward him do

you feel toward him as though he's your

kid brother in view of the fact that you

appointed him to many of his positions

Republican National chairman un

Ambassador and so on uh do you have that

kind of relationship with him no I'm a

bit more formal than that I I never

forget the last time I saw

eisenh he knew that it was near the end

and he I before I left the room I said

you know Mr President before I go back

to the capital in the white house I just

want to say that uh the country will

always be in your debt for what you have

done in war and in peace and

he said you are very generous to say

that and he said I have only one regret

at this time he said after you are

inaugurated I can no longer call you

dick now in fact George Bush insists

that I call him George Ronald Reagan

insists that I call him Ron but on the

other hand I think of George Bush not as

a younger brother and not as a prote but

he's president that's where I feel about

it and I think he appreciates that

in terms of ideology and even policy

can't it be said that the Bush

Administration is a kind of a

continuation or an extension of the

Nixon Administration after all Brent

skor Croft who was a protege of Henry

Kissinger and and Lawrence eigelberger

another Protege are both in there in

high in high ranking positions the

president was an official under under

you and many other people in the White

House staff for example were officials

of the Nixon Administration are there

differences in tone

or is it a continuation when answering

that question I recall very well when I

was a member of Congress a very

conservative Southern Democrat came

across the aisle one day to speak to uh

uh Mark vetto Mark Antonio who uh was

almost communist some people thought

that he was Mark Antonio had voted for a

pet project of this Southern Democrat

John Rankin and he says Mark he says

thanks for that vote he says I'll come

into your district and campaign for you

or against you which ever helped you the

most now let me say that with regard to

George Bush as to whether it's

continuation of the next

Administration that if I were to suggest

that it were that would probably hurt

him so therefore let's just say this is

the Bush Administration and I'm glad

that on generally I'm able to support

its major foreign policy initiatives how

does Dan Quail stack up to your standard

as a vice presidential

Emissary I think Dan Quail has done

extremely well considering what he was

up against I've often said it's very

difficult to be vice president with a

very popular president I had a little of

that myself and George Bush had it with

Reagan now Dan Quail has it with

bush I was talking to a a friend liberal

Republican a few days ago and who had

heard Quail speak for the first time and

I said what did you think of him he said

I must say I was surprised from what I

had read in the media I thought the guy

was a well now that of course

helps qu qu uh the expectations are so

low that all he has to do is to go out

and show that he's able to handle

himself I think he's handled himself

very well in his foreign trips uh and I

think another point that Quail deserves

High marks on is his staff he isn't

afraid to have people that are as smart

as he is or even smarter than he is

around him uh I would say too therefore

that as far as Quail is concerned uh you

should not count him out uh he has a way

to go because he started from a very low

level but don't count him out well how

do you think Bush will uh will come out

in the ranking of postwar

President a based on his present

popularity he should rank very high but

his great challenges lie ahead ' 89 was

an easy year thank Kevin uh 90 will be

more difficult I think he will meet that

challenge however but George Bush is

fortunate in one way I as you know often

quote Churchill Churchill wrote about

Roseberry a British prime minister back

in the 19th century that he had The

Misfortune of Being Born in the time of

Great Men and small events George Bush

does not have that Misfortune he has the

Good Fortune to be born in a time of

great events uh he has the challenge of

winning a cold war he has the challenge

of developing a relationship with uh the

Japanese in a time that's going to be

very difficult he has the challenge of

dealing with problems at home

uh uh everything from the

environment uh to education to child

care Etc and with all of these great

challenges the great events all George

Bush has to do is to measure up to the

great events but it's far better to have

that challenge than to be a great man

with only small

events when did you first meet George

Bush I met him back in 1952 I believe

might have been before that because his

father of course was in the Senate and I

know him in the Senate but in 1952 he

was one of my young Advanced men so to

speak when I campaigned in Texas and he

was a vigorous go- go guy one got the

impression from the outside and you you

know it's a press impression of uh of

never actually making a difference in

any of the jobs that he ever held he he

performed according to the instructions

that he received at at the UN and the

CIA and other places but no one ever

could tell that he ever really made a

difference but did he you were his boss

well i' I've seen a little of that as

speculation but let's look at the other

side of it uh he never made any mistakes

I mean I think one thing about George

Bush that people Overlook is that he is

not mistake prone uh if he does make

them they just fumbles which he recovers

himself the George Bush was always

considered a comer he was one of our

young uh men coming along and it's

interesting that Eisenhower who is a

pretty good picker at least he he he

always considered himself to be that he

uh focused on Bush way back in

1967 which I don't think Bush knew at

the time

[Music]

yeah by now it's clear that George Bush

won't suffer Lord roseberry's fate he is

on the world stage in a time of great

events of these perhaps the most

momentous is the collapse of Communism

both as a military threat and more

importantly as an idea Richard Nixon

came to the House of Representatives at

the dawn of the Cold War just as the

Soviet Union was turning from a wartime

Ally to the geopolitical enemy of the

United States the 34-year-old

Californian lost no time minting his

anti-communist

credentials together with a freshman

Democrat from Massachusetts congressman

Nixon supported the Greek Turkish Loan

program and the maral plan to

reconstruct War torn Western Europe

throughout his career Richard Nixon was

a stor supporter of foreign aid as a

tool against communist expansion in the

third world before the McCarthy ER of

polarized American politics Nixon led

the charge against aler his a high

ranking State Department official

accused of being a Soviet spy and

throughout 1948 and 49 Nixon's house on

American Activities Committee matched

wits with the aristocratic his I don't

hate despite incriminating testimony by

Whitaker Chambers himself an

ex-communist his professed innocence

backing hiss were Secretary of State

aeson and even President Truman but to

no avail his was convicted on two counts

of perjury in 1950 and sentenced to 5

years in prison that year Nixon wrote

the his case Prov Beyond any reasonable

doubt the existence of Soviet directed

communist subversion at the highest

levels of American

government his Triumph in the his case

transformed Richard Nixon into a

national figure as Dwight Eisenhower's

vice president Nixon carried on the

Crusade at home and on many trips abroad

to Outpost of the Cold War vice

president and Mrs Nixon are greeted at

monteo next up Argentina where traffic

delays him on his way to the anuro

ceremony Vice President Nixon receives a

cordial welcome from president singman

Reed as he visits on his round the world

Goodwill

tour in Moscow Nixon defended American

capitalism in the famous kitchen debate

with Soviet leader Nikita crev in

1959 and I can only say that if this

competition which you have just

described so effectively in which uh you

plan to outstrip us and particularly in

the production of consumer goods if this

competition is

to do the best for both both of our

peoples and for people everywhere there

must be a free exchange of ideas uh if

the present Trend continues uh if Mr

Kennedy Senator Kennedy will be the next

president of the United States after

losing his first presidential bid in

1960 Nixon berated presidents Kennedy

and Johnson for being too soft on

communism but by the time he was elected

president in

1968 Nixon unveiled a new strategy with

the US Meed in the Vietnam War the

Soviets near equals in nuclear weapons

capability and the Chinese seeming to

turn inward Mixon launched a policy of

daytont or a new accommodation with the

Communist

world as great Powers we shall sometimes

be

competitors but we need never be

enemies can find

Comm you work

the chance for world peace is in MA

increas Nixon's 1972 speeches in Moscow

and Beijing were the high Watermark of

deont 18 years later Richard Nixon

defends his Dayton policy against

revisionists to argue that it gave the

Soviets a decade to postpone reform

similarly Nixon claims that the tragic

events in tanaman square shouldn't

obscure the Strategic necessity of

America's opening to the world's most

populous

nation you were are perhaps still a

staunch anti-communist uh and yet in

1968 you seem to change in the campaign

you said that it was time uh not no

longer for confrontation but a time for

negotiation and launched into a Dayton

policy toward the Soviet Union why what

happened after I became president was

that I had to look at the world as I

found then and I saw that with the

Vietnam war going on uh we had to make

moves toward the Soviet Union toward

China and others as well in order to

deal with that problem in order to build

for the future interestingly enough I

was criticized by some by the far

right and praised by the far left both

for the same and the wrong reason the

far right said he went to China because

uh that sh proves he soft on communism

and the far left said no he went to

China and they said the old co- Warrior

has finally found the communism isn't

that bad going to China had nothing to

do with Communism it had to do with the

Strategic relationship between the

United China was it based on the on the

notion that is particularly dayon with

the Soviet Union and the decision to

negotiate with them on the Whitaker

Chambers view of the world that is that

we're on the right side of history but

we're on the losing side of history and

were you trying to to uh prevent us from

losing by reaching accommodations with

the Soviet

Union Whit Chambers you point out felt

when he testified before us way back in

1948 that we were on the losing side and

that when he left the Communist Party he

felt that he was leaving The Winning

Side I have never felt that uh I felt

that the Soviet Union was formidable

militarily and in 1968 for example and

in 196 9 when I started the process of

the the Soviet Union I thought it was

important that we negotiate with them

with regard to nuclear arms where we

were in a race a race that neither was

going to win uh under the circumstances

that negotiation I think proved to be

the right thing to do but let me point

out that wasn't soft-headed negotiation

but every time the Soviet Union engaged

in aggressive tactics for example when

they tried to put a nuclear submarine

base into San fos we just stopped the

negotiations when for example they

supported India and its efforts to

gobble up the rest of Pakistan in 1971

we said we're not going to come to the

to Moscow for a summit meeting which

they wanted in

1972 and in

1973 when they tried to intervene in the

Y Kipper War uh we even called an alert

to keep them out let me say good

relations that was a dayon whatever you

call with the Soviet Union cannot be a

one-way Street if they misbehave you

must link their behavior to other things

let me contrast your strategy with the

Soviet Union the dayon strategy with the

strategy of Reagan now it seems it seems

that what Reagan did was to stress the

Soviet Union by having a big military

buildup by calling them the evil empire

and so on and eventually they they gave

they cried uncle and they uh

acknowledged their internal problems and

so on and so forth now wasn't that in

the end a better strategy than making

making deals with her a case could be

made for that but we have to have in

mind that the situation at the time that

Reagan was President had changed a great

deal from the time I was president at

the time I was President we're talking

now in the period from 1969 to

1974 the Soviet Union was not in or did

not perceive itself to be in economic

dold uh the Soviet Union was a nuclear

superpower it had caught up with the

United States and in some areas of

land-based missiles even ahead of the

United States and the Soviet Union uh

still felt the people of the world

certainly seemed to feel or most

observers I should say seem to feel that

the Soviet Union while its economy was

not competitive with the United States

was not

hopelessly uh out of whack by the time

President Reagan came into office the

Soviet Union was a basket

case you can argue as to why the Soviet

Union garbacho for example took the line

to he did uh with regard to reform at

home and retrenchment abroad I think you

that the major reason for that is not

what he feared as far as the United

States was concerned that was a factor

but the major reason for that was the

internal situation within the Soviet

Union but but don't forget you yourself

wrote In 1980 that the Soviets were

winning the Cold War Reagan became

president in in in the in the 1980

election so they would seem to have been

at their high point then

um so why doesn't it follow that uh that

if anybody was going to make an

accommodation to them Reagan should have

because they were they were strong no it

wasn't widely understood that that they

were a basket case at that point was it

that came during 1982 8384 by the time

that garbage off came into Power there

was no question about it and many more

astute observers felt that they were a

basket case even in 1980 it just didn't

suddenly happen uh it just didn't work

that was it but they and all Al the fact

that they were a basket Cas was

highlighted by the fact that the West uh

after going through the Mala of the late

70s and after going through the

recession of the early 80s the west and

particularly the United States had

recovered we had a booming strong

economy and the contrast between the

successful economy of the West

particularly the United States and the

bastard case economy of the Soviet Union

was what led gorbachov to do what he did

uh let's look at SDI for a moment uh

it's it's uh rather fashionable in the

circles that you move in that I move

into to say well the SDI didn't really

amount to that much SDI had an enormous

effect on coverage I remember when I saw

him in 1986 he said look we're a very

strong people uh we have a strong

economy uh I felt it was Defensive as a

matter of fact uh and we have our own

SDI program and we're doing things that

you can't do but he says I object to SDI

because it means that we're going to

escalate in Orange Rays deep down what

he was concerned about was not that

militarily they couldn't do it because

they are very good in doing that sort of

thing but his concern was that he felt

that it would bust the Soviet economy

and that they couldn't afforded so SDI

played a role in his economic reforms

therefore isn't the Reagan strategy

better than the donon strategy that you

pursu no it's a question of time uh the

Deton strategy hard headed Deton that I

pursued worked During the period I was

President there was no uh bit of

territory was ever lost to the Soviet

Union any place in the world uh and at

that point the Soviet Union uh having

closed the Gap as far as military

strength is concerned now equal at the

United States that was a time to

negotiate and to have stability by the

time that Reagan became president uh the

United States had gone gone through a

period under Carter the last years of

Carter in which uh the United States had

fallen behind particularly not so much

militarily particularly in terms of its

spirit and So Reagan decided that this

is a time for the United States to

assert itself if I had been president

elected president in 1980 I would have

done I think exactly the same thing that

Reagan did it was the right time to take

a strong stand against the Soviet Union

uh because uh we had to rebuild our

defenses let me put it this way you

can't have a dayun

strategy unless you are in a position of

equality Reagan felt in 1980 that the

United States was not in a position to

negotiate equally with the Soviet Union

because we had to rebuild our defenses

first he was right and that's why he was

able to get his arms control and his

other policies through I take it that

you don't regard Reagan though as a

strategist On a par with uh with

gorbachov

now that is not Reagan's strength uh

Reagan's strength is something else

which garbage offi perhaps does not have

Reagan strength is that he was able to

have Vision about what he believed in uh

people of course knock Reagan they

saying he was in hands on all the rest

he knew where he was going and as a

result of his eight years uh the

American economy which was in the

doldrums has come back so that America

was became strong economically uh and

the American Military uh was

strengthened but more important Raven

left something that can't be measured

militarily or economically the American

Spirit was better and that was very very

important in 44 years as a public figure

you've met many if not most of the great

figures of the 20th century do you put

gorbachov in this list

now oh yes there's no question that

garbatov is uh in the top level of the

leaders of the 20th C

now how he's going to survive

historically remains to be seen uh but

at the present time there's no question

he's a worldclass strategic thinker a

worldclass political leader do you think

that Mel gorbachov is going to make

it I'm in a minority here I think he

will uh I think he will make it not

because he is a dedicated communist and

not because he is a very proud Russian

nationalist but because he is a very

capable true

politician and his political instincts

will make him land on his feet even

though the problems are infinitely great

one gets the impression of these um

Soviet leaders like bref as stolid old

men who had no personality or anything

yet you were probably the first

president who really got to know BF was

not that way I take it BF was he he was

very earthy and he liked the girls yeah

that was how could you tell well just

the way he talked I mean he liked to he

liked to tell jokes maybe a little bit

earthy uh in fact one of my favorite

stories about him invol the time when I

asked him as I had asked Churchill uh

whether or not he ever used a Dictaphone

and Churchill that said no I know one of

my friends gave me one of those machines

and he said I put it aside because I'd

much rather dictate to a pretty

secretary and ENT at Churchill with the

we said and I have two very goodlook

secretaries I asked BR without ever

telling him about Churchill the same

thing when I first saw brn in the same

office as a matter of fact where I'd

seen kof back in

1959 and brn said no he said I don't use

one of those machines he said you know I

always prefer to dictate to a pretty

secretary and you know when you wake up

in the middle of the night and want to

make a note it's very convenient to have

somebody in the room there with you to

take it down uh br

another what that was he kidding oh no

oh no now brf uh he was uh had that

reputation and as a matter of fact most

of the Russians that I have met prided

themselves on being mro characters I

haven't heard that about garbacho

garbacho gets the impression of being a

sort of a you know a a touchy feely kind

of a politician he plunges into crowds

but when I met him and I had about an

hour and a half a little over with him I

could sense that there was always

something something in reserve uh more

like the the GS the churches and so for

even though he has this reputation of

being a a

politician yeah he's a politician in the

sense that he contacts people and all

that sort of thing but but he is not one

that gets too close to people or allows

people to get too close to

him life compan

in you describe

your meeting with Joe and Li and M say

bong as the peak experience perhaps of

your of your entire career but couldn't

it be said that you prior to that

prevented any other president from

having a rro m with

China my position with regard to China

prior to the time that I wrote the

article for foreign affairs the seminal

article in 1967 in which I advocated a

new approach to

China my position was that as as long as

China was outside of the family of

Nations as long as it was an aggressive

power the United States should not

recognize it uh and we should continue a

policy of sanctions which we did and a

policy of isolation isolating it I think

that policy was correct at the time

however I reached the conclusion in the

late 60s uh as I traveled around the

world uh that the time had come uh to

make a move toward China to make a move

toward China because I felt not that

China for example was going to become a

democratic country as a result of our

initiatives uh and not simply because

China uh would be a counterweight to the

Soviet Union which was one of the

reasons going but because as I looked to

the Future saw a billion people with

enormous resources a nuclear superpower

potentially that it just didn't make

sense for the United States not to have

but sir there were loads of people

Democrats mainly who said sometime after

1949 when the Communists took over there

are a billion people in China there are

going to be a nuclear power we've got to

have relations with them and yet you and

other Republicans made it seem almost

disloyal to the country to even think

such things but when those people were

saying that was at a time when the

Chinese were responsible along with the

North Koreans for killing 50,000

Americans in the Korean War they were

saying at the time that the Chinese was

still in there in an aggressive uh phase

when they were exporting uh their

communist ideas Hardline communist ideas

all over Asia into Indonesia into the

Philippines Etc uh and that situation

changed in the late 60s CH China began

to turn inward we got to remember this

coming back to 1947 48 at that time

China was totally under the control to

the Soviet Union in

1959 China began to split from the

Soviet Union so by the time I addressed

the problem you had China and the Soviet

Union no longer allies in fact potential

adversaries and China no longer an

aggressive power or they engaged in some

activities but not nearly as much as the

Soviet Union looking ahead at China why

is it necessary given the forces as they

are in the world right now for the bush

Administration to insist that we have to

have good relations with China

regardless of what they do to their own

people I don't believe that the Bush

Administration says exactly that the

Bush Administration is concerned about

what they do to their own people it's

concerned concerned strategically as

well uh I would put it this

way in 1972 And this relates to your own

earlier

questions we

in which the United States isolated

China in which we had sanctions against

China and China at that time was even

more repressive in the Soviet Union they

just killed millions in the cultural

revolution and yet we

went had we not gone in 1972 had we not

opened up China to the outside

world what happened in tenm square there

wouldn't have been any demonstrators

there there wouldn't have been any

students 100,000 studied in the United

States by the time of tum Square so

the American influence the American

relationship with China has been

essential to the development of human

rights in China and now today it is

still essential the United States as

demonstrated since 1972 will always use

its influence for moderation suppose

suppose we shunn them because of what

happened in TI then Square they wouldn't

go back to the Soviet Union would they

what's the worst thing that could happen

if we did it there are four potential

players in Asia today and the and among

the major Nations China the Soviet Union

Japan and the United States it's the

United States withdraws from the game

I.E withdraws from a close association

with China it leaves the field to the

Soviet Union and Japan and neither the

Soviet Union and and Japan are going to

use their influence for the cause of

Human Rights you know there's the same

the same kind of argument is made about

Vietnam that that uh we could have made

friends with hoian that uh John Foster

Dallas declined to shake his hand and if

we had if we had uh recognized hoochi

men would could we have avoided the

Vietnam War by the same logic that we

should maintain a good relationship with

China if there was any doubt about the

the

rightness of what we did in Vietnam the

rightness of President Reagan saying in

1980 and he was damned by it in the

media purum that it was a noble

cause uh there between one and 2 million

cambodians were slaughtered or scarred

to death there are

600,000 Vietnamese who drowned in the

South China Seas trying to get away from

what hoi men would have done to the

balance of the country now the United

States was on the right side in Vietnam

uh unfortunately the Congress cut off

the aid that was needed for the

government of South Vietnam or it would

have survived it did survive for two

years as you know after the Paris peace

agreement you would have sent troops

into Vietnam would you not had you been

elected in 19 6 yeah I would certainly

have sent troops into Vietnam had I been

elected but I wouldn't have had to do it

because I would never have joined in the

conspiracy which resulted in the

assassination of DM if DM had not been

assassinated I do not believe it would

have been necessary for troops to go to

to Vietnam I think that he would have

been able uh to have uh developed the

Defense Forces with our

assistance I believe in other words that

American foreign policy should be to

help others uh fight their enemies

whoever they may be but not to do the

fighting for them we should help with

arms we should help with advice we

should help with aid but sending troops

in is something we should not do if we

can get others to do our course that's

the so-called Nixon Doctrine the second

point is that had I survived had

Watergate not occurred I believe that it

would have been possible to get the

Congress to provide uh the funds that

were necessary to see that the South

Vietnamese received as much Aid as the

Russians were giving the North

Vietnamese now that is a closer question

uh because assuming that Watergate had

occurred I would have been damaged and

my influence for the Congress was less

but I would have certainly fought for It

Right Down the Line had there been no

Watergate there's no question that South

Vietnam would be a free independent

country today and a very prosperous one

rather than one of the poorest countries

in the world under the Communist rulers

did you ever contemplate the possibility

of doing what Eisenhower did in Korea

that is hinting that we might use

nuclear weapons in the worst case that

was suggested to me but I never

seriously considered it uh I I always

felt that if you let the nuclear Genie

out of the bottle no one could tell what

would happen not to to threaten them

even to threaten them because you

couldn't really threaten them unless

there was a possibility you could use

them it wasn't really I think in the

case of Eisenhower at that point it was

a credible threat due to the fact that

the United States at the time of Korea

had unquestioned superiority absolute

superiority to threaten their use at a

time that the Soviet Union was equal and

in some areas superior to the United

States and when China also had them and

they were unpredictable I think would

not have been

credible you say in your book that

somebody told you that Joe and lie

actually once strangled somebody with

his own hands yes do you believe that oh

I think it's possible yes uh Jo and Li

of course was the most civilized leader

that I have met I don't mean that the

others were uncivilized but he just gave

the impression of a totally

civilized kind of a person and yet I

know that on the way up the Long March

and the rest he had to be very ruthless

and I I had this report was frankly by

an American assistant Secretary of State

Willis Robertson and I think it's

possible I'm not sure that it but I

think it's possible now dung is somebody

who's obviously killed a lot of people

in t men square is he uh a ruthless guy

this D shaing who's now a pariah he's

the he's the man that's the villain in

all the media in the United States today

was Time magazine's Man of the Year in

1978 and again in 1985 you got to

remember that under his leadership for

10 years between 79 and 89 the per

capita income of the Chinese people

doubled under under garbage House's

leadership it's gone down the Russian so

uh per capita income so this man I think

is proud of what he has accomplished he

regrets that the reforms have been set

back but to the extent that he can at

his Advanced age play a role he's going

to come down on the side as the United

States will of the moderates and the

power struggle that is already beginning

in China as to who

follows that

you never

anything the only people Richard Nixon

enjoyed jouin with as much as communist

were Democrats especially liberal

Democrats in successful bids for a house

seat in 1946 and for the senate in 1950

Nixon piled up points campaigning

against communism and what he called the

socialist economic policies of the

Democrats Dwight Eisenhower admired the

political skills of the young senator

from California and after some

hesitation chose Nixon as his running

mate in

1952 but Nixon's Vice Presidential

candidacy was jeopardized by the first

Scandal of his young political career

allegations of a shady expense fund set

up for Nixon by wealthy benefactors

prompted many Eisenhower aids to urge

that Nixon be removed from the ticket on

September 23rd at the elcapitan studios

in Los Angeles Richard Nixon defended

himself in a nationally televised speech

my fellow

Americans I come before you tonight as a

candidate for the vice presidency and as

a man whose honesty and and integrity

has been questioned I would do nothing

that would harm the possibilities of Bri

Eisenhower to become president of the

United States and for that reason I am

submitting to the Republican National

Committee tonight through this

television broadcast the decision which

it is Theirs to

make let them decide whether my position

on the ticket will help or hood and I'm

going to ask you to help them decide

wire and write the Republican National

Committee whether you think I should

stay on or whether I should get off and

whatever their decision is I will abide

by it was to be one of the most

important speeches of his political

career telegrams expressing support for

Nixon poured into Republican party

headquarters

a day later Eisenhower met Nixon in

Wheeling West Virginia to confirm

Nixon's spot on the ticket dick Nixon

was once again ik's

boy Eisenhower himself disdained

politics so it was Nixon who was sent

out to do most of the stumping for

Republican candidates across the country

between 1952 and 1958 Nixon LED hundreds

of thousands of campaign miles bashing

Democratic candidates and raising money

for republicans

Nixon's efforts to build a republican

majority in America were sidetracked in

1960 when he lost to John Kennedy in a

close election that featured the first

ever televised presidential debates

secondly I think the question is what

are the programs that we Advocate unlike

the 1952 Checker speech Nixon's TV

performance hurt his candidacy Kennedy

outshone Nixon in the debates and went

on to win the White House Nixon's

Victory would finally come in 1968 when

he defeated vice president Hubert

Humphrey but America had undergone

dramatic changes in those eight years

the assassinations of John Kennedy and

Martin Luther King Jr the stalemate in

Vietnam and swiftly changing social

mores awakened a counterculture that

challenged America's political and

social institutions by

1969 large anti-war demonstrations were

a fixture on Pennsylvan Avenue and on

college campuses throughout the country

on November 3rd of that year President

Nixon spoke from the Oval Office to

justify his Vietnam policies in a direct

appeal to the nation so

tonight to you the great silent majority

of my fellow Americans I ask for your

support let us be United for

peace let us also be United against the

feet because let us understand North

Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the

United

States only Americans can do that his

Landslide reelection in 1972 over

Senator George McGovern convinced Nixon

that the silent majority had spoken even

though the voters elected a congress

which was controlled by Democratic doves

but his forced resignation in 1974 again

dur railed Nixon's ambition of

transforming the silent majority into a

republican political base even after the

heady Reagan years and the collapse of

Communism in Eastern Europe George Bush

still faces Democratic majorities in

both houses of

Congress George Bush uh is is highly

popular the Democrats don't seem to be

able to get any uh any handle on him uh

is it because he's such a a master of

politics or is there something wrong

with the Democrat I think it's both uh

George Bush is a very skillful

politician uh and inally I'm an expert

on the Press I think he handles the

Press very well so I I have to have

great respect for him for that uh beyond

that uh he has had a period I would say

this where he may have had a couple of

fumbles in his first year uh but he's

had no intercepted passes and he's had

no turnovers in other words it's a

mistake

free uh Administration and therefore he

hasn't given any uh particular targets

for the opposition to shoot at I think

in in appraising the bush popularity we

have to recognize that like Eisen now in

56 when he was also enormously popular

when he ran for the second ter he has

peace he has Prosperity hard to run

against either Ro but a very weak

Democratic opposition I think the

weakest in 50 years in 1956 eisar was in

front of with speaker Sam Ren and with

Majority Leader Lyndon Johnson and they

were formidable political players oh

they talked about bipartisanship but

they knew that bipartisanship to them uh

should only be engaged in when it serves

a partisan interest but bush is playing

bipartisanship too or at least he he's

talking bipartisanship and many Hardline

conservatives think that he ought to

find Cutting Edge issues to slash away

at the uh at the Democrats bush a

political problem uh some people say why

hasn't he done what Johnson did when

Johnson first came in and he had his all

of his great initiatives and so for some

bad some good the point is Johnson had

overwhelming majorities in the House and

Senate Bush does not there are still

Democratic majorities in both the house

and the Senate he's got to be bipartisan

to be effective uh I would say that bush

on the other hand uh has benefited from

the fact that the Democrats simply are

not able to seize upon any issue that

grabs you're not going to get the whole

country excited about Glo global warming

you're not going to get the whole

country excited about uh some of these

other domestic issues that is there

anything lying around there that they

will get excited

about the thing that will be lying

around will be if economic downturn even

slowdown

occurs and if as a result of that a

great number of Americans will believe

that they're not getting their fair

share the Democrats are best when they

are for the indult Franklin D Roosevelt

preached that Harry Truman did John F

Kennedy to an extent not quite as much

Lyndon Johnson all out uh and when that

time occurs if it does I don't I hope it

doesn't but when that time occurs when

as a result of an economic slowdown a

lot of people feel that the Richer

getting richer and the poor are getting

poor that Democrats will be able to do

some but there's only one on the scene

that I think that could do that that's

CUO uhhuh uh the we talk about the

Democratic candidates and uh they just

haven't got any horses at the present

time uh you say chomo after what

happened the last time they nominated a

governor or you want to remember

Franklin de Roosevelt was a governor and

what does Mario Cuomo have to offer that

that that makes him I gather your most

formable candidate for 92 Koma has high

intelligence uh uh he has heart at least

he appears to have and that's what

matters uh his weakness is um his

demagogy on foreign policy he's got to

get more responsible in foreign policy

than his speech otherwise a burant

speech of San Francisco in 1984

indicated but Cuomo would be able to

seize upon this the haves versus the

have not issue more effectively than any

of the other Democrats because of his

appeal another thing going he is very

good uh in so far as Q&A and speaking is

concerned uh debates between him and

George Bush they would be very

interesting to watch I think they'd be

very good would CUO have a chance of

winning and what would he have to do to

have a chance to win I think George Bush

will be reelected in

1992 uh but CUA would have a chance only

if there is some economic slowdown

between now and

1992 given the present situation of

peace and prosperity with work world

affairs going as they are uh Bush will

win in 1992 although it will be closer

than 1988 CUO is the only one that could

make it a close race who else do you

think will run for the Democratic

nomination well there's always plenty of

people ready to line up to run but I I

don't see anything I think Gart I I'm

rather puzzled by him because you see

him on television he's a very good-look

man his wife is really extremely

attractive uh but I think he's hurt

himself by demagoguing the Japanese

issue uh it doesn't sound as if he

really means it because he goes so far

in doing so and I think that he is

losing some of his basically Democratic

constituencies as a result isn't it

possible that Gart is trying to do with

the Japanese what Richard Nixon did with

the Russians back in the uh in the 50s

that is to make a reputation by picking

out what he believes to be a clear and

present enemy and firing at it Franklin

D Roosevelt once told John Conley you

must always have an enemy John rather

than this idea of consensus and so forth

and so on and this of course relates to

that point uh I do not I think that's a

non-starter first I think it's wrong

strategically it's not in the interest

of the United States but it's a

non-starter for another reason let's

look at Japan just a moment it's going

to be a major competitor of ours for the

balance of this century and into the

next

Century but as far as as Japan is

concerned we have to realize that if all

of the issues we have with Japan and so

far as unfair trade was concerned were

resolved it would affect only 10% of the

trade we have in the world at the

present time the problem is not that uh

these trade restrictions that the

Japanese put up some of them non-tariff

barriers and that should be removed the

problem is that we're making the

Japanese escapegoat for some of our own

problems and looking at Jack Japan I

know you can raise question but the

Japanese own this bank and they own this

movie studio would it surprise our

listeners to know and our viewers to

know that the Dutch own more of the

United States and the

Japanese the problem is for the United

States to recognize that Japan as a

result in part that we

uh help them as our previous enemies

recover from World War II uh as a result

uh from also of their own hard work etc

the Japanese are going to be competitors

but what we have to do is to compete but

look to ourselves for the problem rather

than making skateboard of the Japanese

are you afraid that an adversarial

relationship might develop between the

United States and Japan yes at the

present time I'm concerned about

American bashing at Japan and I'm

concerned also about Japanese bashing of

the United States which is increasing

day by day uh it is important that the

two economic superpowers in the Free

World compete with each other but that

we also not had have an adversarial uh

basically Cold War attitude we should

bear in mind that the playing field must

be level now one advantage that Japanese

companies have that American companies

don't have is that the Japanese

government always cooperates with the

Japanese companies in the United States

we often find the United States

government in an adversarial position

with American uh companies American

companies in order to compete compete uh

successfully with the Japanese uh have

to have that Advantage

removed you started your political

career in the pre-tv era or as TV was

just coming in to dominate American

politics and obviously your experience

is is with the TV era what's the

difference how has television changed

American politics trivialized It

television is an entertainment Medium as

you know I mean we think for example

we're educating people with this inter

we're not educating people they're

looking at us they want to see a little

fight they want to see the little

conflict and so forth and when we get

through they wouldn't be able to tell us

what we tell you what we talked about

but that's television and so in the time

before television when I campaigned in

46 when I campaigned in 48 the national

ticket for Dewey and then in 1950 as

well uh television just didn't play a

role at all but that meant that the

print press played a much bigger role it

also meant that politics was much more

serious I mean I mean there was really

serious discussion of issues with

television too much emphasis is on uh

quips on what fit in the 10 10 seconds

in the evening news and the rest rather

than on serious discussion now image is

very

image is I think all important in

television that's why right you should

be more concerned about your makeup

artist than uh your

researcher uh the the one that blows

your hair dry rather than what's between

your ears that's

television here go

are you at all troubled by the fact that

we only get 50% of the registered vote

out less than 50% for a for presidential

election does it have anything to do

with negative

campaigning the highest vote percentage

I was looking some figur just the other

day uh in recent years was a 1960 and

part of the reason I think was that the

both candidates uh everybody my

Democratic friends would say certainly

Kennedy my Republican f it was close

people come out when it's close and the

candidates were young uh and uh people

will come out for a good fight I think

if you get top fight candidates if it's

highly

competitive uh that we can get the

percentage of vote up but uh I must say

it hasn't been hopeful in recent years

does negative campaigning have anything

to do do you think the negative

campaigning is a bad thing I was trying

to avoid that answering that question

but I would say that as far as the

negative campaigning is concerned I do

think it turns off a lot people now by

negative campaigning I'm not referring

to campaigning hard on the issues Harry

Truman He gave the Republic and 80th

Congress hell in addition to giving a

music ready Kell who criticized his

daughter singing uh but he won giving

him help but he was talking about issues

not personalities speaking of Hardball

politics let me ask you about

1960 um you had been a senator and a

congress along with John Kennedy and he

had the reputation up until the 1960

race of being something of a Playboy and

not a not a terribly serious Senator did

you ever EST underestimate him I didn't

underestimate him because I served with

him we came to the Congress together we

agreed on foreign policy throughout our

careers in the Congress after I became

vice president uh we disagreed on some

domestic policies due to the fact that

he came from a liberal Democratic

District I came from a Conservative

Republican District but I always felt

that Kennedy was their strongest

candidate and when people said well he

can't win because he's a Catholic I said

forget it that'll help them and it did

because interestingly enough when I ran

against Helen gagen in 19 50 I got about

45% of the Catholic vote in part because

of uh they were more supportive of me on

the Greek Turkish Aid and these other

programs that I spoken about they were

strongly anti-communist

uh against uh John F Kennedy uh I

received the lowest percentage of the

Catholic vote of any candidate in

history democrat or republican I

understand that if I had been a Catholic

first CH chance for a Catholic really to

win Al Smith had no chance i' probably

would have that way too in in 1960 you

must have been in possession of material

about Kennedy's character and so on yet

it never came out in view of the

closeness of the election why

not I think I think that uh we probably

felt it would be

counterproductive I don't want to

indicate to you that we didn't bring

things out because we uh wanted to be uh

so much above the battle and campaign

only on the issues I'm sure that he and

we would have done virtually anything

which would might be legal in order to

win knowing it was going to be a very

close election but under the

circumstances I thought uh it was my

view then and it's been my view since

that engaging in criticism of a

candidate's personal activities is

counterproductive I don't like to do it

I also think it it hurts and I think in

this case that was probably what

prevailed when I met with my advisers it

was C the idea was raised of course

because it was no secret but in view of

what happened to Gary Hart um it

certainly would have handed you the

election wouldn't it a different

situation uh in in

1960 it is unlikely that the media

would have played the role that they did

in the Gary Hart case the media even

though Gary Hart was closer to them with

their liberal views than uh certainly

others were the media on the other hand

couldn't resist that kind of a story and

they blew it up in 1960 I'm inclined to

think that the media would have

discarded the media would not have

played an aggressive role in going after

Kennedy that they did after heart

why first I think because uh they felt

closer to Kennedy in some ways I mean he

was he was very effective at the media

uh they liked him second uh he was uh uh

more liberal than I was not as liberal

as some and not as liberal as Stevenson

but more liberal than I was and they

like that but I think too is just a

change in the whole attitude of the

Press today the Press particularly

because of Television not so much the

press that the Press is almost

exclusively interested in Scandal uh you

you can have a big piece on the homeless

and uh it won't even make the evening

news if You' got something about

somebody sleeping with somebody else's

wife let me ask you a speculative

question about John Kennedy if he had

lived do you suppose that we would have

had the turmoil that we had in the 1960s

would he have persisted in the Vietnam

War and so

on I know there's been a lot of

speculation that he might have

discontinued his support of the uh South

Vietnamese and would have wound up the

War I don't agree John

Kennedy was a very strong person and a

very decisive

person uh except for his what I consider

to be his mistake in in knocking off the

second air strike at the Bay of Pigs he

took strong action for example on the

Cuban

confrontation I think John Kennedy as

distinguished from Johnson would not

have gone forward with the policy of

gradualism I think he would have taken

strong action to bring the war to an end

at an earlier date and he would not have

escalated as Johnson did at least that's

my judgment knowing the man as I did so

you think the turmoil that followed

would not have taken place that the the

cultural revolution of the United States

during the 60s might might have been

avoided that's another subject I think

the cultural revolution had a life of

its own uh I think it was very

unfortunate and uh because I don't

happen to be a man of the 60s in that

respect to give John F Kennedy his due

and johnon his do I think Kennedy would

have taken a stronger position on

Vietnam than Johnson did I do not think

he would have let it drag on because he

was a decisive kind of a person and also

he thought he had enough public

support uh I think that Kennedy uh on

the other hand would not have bitten the

bullet on civil rights which Johnson did

just as I was the only one who could

have gone to China in 1972 John Johnson

was the only one who could have brought

about the passage of the Civil Rights

Act of 1964 so we give both men credit

for it's new did Lee Harvey Oswald act

alone you know when I was on French

television back in 19 78 and that was

the major subject of Interest I was on

for three hours and it over and over

they think there's a

conspiracy I don't know I've uh and I

refuse to read the new books and see the

new docu dramas and so forth I don't

think Dr dramas are any good anyway but

that's another matter I don't think much

of TV but you never saw any information

while you were president to suggest that

his attempts to kill Castro inspired

Castro to kill him or any such thing no

no I have never seen any information of

that type all that I know is what I've

read in books and the newspapers and

what I have seen modest amount on

TV is there somebody in your time that

uh you thought ought to have been

president and never made

it uh I would rate Tom D in that

category I campaigned for him in 1948

when I was a congressman I got to know

him very well later uh throughout my

period as vice president in the Years

out of office and also until he died

while I was President he he had some he

had some

extraordinarily good qualities above

everything else in addition to his own

high intelligence he pick very good

staff were outstanding he he was

confident enough of his own abilities

that he wasn't afraid to pick people

that were smart as he was and that's a

mark of an executive dwey was a first

class geopolitical thinker he understood

foreign policy and his judgment was

excellent and finally I like dwey

because uh he he was about in the same

mainstream of politics that I was I mean

I wasn't against that but dwey had uh

took the same views for example on civil

rights that I did a more shall we say

progressive view than some of the

Republicans but dwey would have made a

great president without respecting the

question I if he'd be trulan we would

have had the same core policy that

Truman had and also say thetic how

[Music]

they Richard Nixon's political successes

far outstripped Thomas Dewey and in

reaching the heights he did in the way

he did Nixon made many enemies as an

unabashedly partisan politician Nixon

rankled the likes of Harry Truman Dean

aeson adlay Stevenson and many others

when Nixon arrived at the White House in

1969 he geared up for battle with new

enemies a democratic Congress bent on

frustrating his policy initiatives at

home and in Vietnam the new burger

Supreme Court which refused to overturn

the Miranda decision or ban busing even

in his own Federal bureaucracy President

Nixon saw un nest of opponents scores of

the country's top newsmen keep close

tabs on the proceedings but highest on

the Nixon enemies list were the media

going back to the his case in

1948 Nixon felt that the media were both

tremendously powerful in shaping

opinions and Afflicted with a liberal

bias in their reporting of news the

1950s provided a truce of sorts in the

battle between Nixon and the media

mainly because of generous coverage of

his trips abroad as vice president but

after

1968 the antagonism resumed and the

Battleground was

Vietnam between Nixon's election in

November and his inauguration in January

nearly 3,000 American soldiers were

killed in Vietnam sniper fire still Dr

feet of negative press coverage reached

to Crescenda each day Nixon would devour

50 or so pages of new summaries prepared

by Patrick Buchanan and other AIDS in

the margins Nixon would pan directives

to get this or that reporter for

unfavorable comments about his Vietnam

policies in his Memoirs Nixon writes the

media are far more powerful than the

president in creating public awareness

and public

opinion by the beginning of Nixon's

second turn in

1973 his administration was engulfed in

the Scandal that would bring down his

presidency in an effort to strike back

at his enemies Nixon used the justice

department and secret teams of White

House operatives to wiretap political

enemies and radical groups what began as

a third rate burglary attempt at the

offices of Democratic National Committee

chairman Lawrence O'Brien at the

Watergate complex mushroomed into a

coverup that sent top nixen AES to

prison for perjury and obstruction of

justice on August 9th

1974 Richard Nixon resigned the

presidency of the United States I shall

resign the presidency effective at noon

tomorrow Vice President Ford will be

swor in his president at that hour in

this office

his enemies had triumphed Richard Nixon

had helped the system bring him

down Ike at one point president ow at

one point said that the Press could

never hurt you yet it did seem to hurt

you or it got under your skin why is

that I would say that as far as the

Press is concerned My Relations were uh

sort of mixed when I was abroad whenever

I went abroad including at only of my

trips to China and to Russia has

president and other trips abroad I got a

universally Fair press and a good press

uh politics stopped at The Waters Edge

which does not happen incidentally with

politicians too much the Press deserves

great credit for that and I appreciated

it on the other hand we have to

recognize that I'm a conservative uh I

was involved too with two seminal issues

the his case uh where the Press many of

them felt that uh it was simply

McCarthyism and then it discouraged them

even more when Eisen and others gave me

credit for handling the matter fairly

and the other was the Vietnam War but do

you think the Press was fundamentally

led by its ideology that that's its most

its strongest motivation is not to tell

the truth but to tilt things in the left

wing Direction no question in my mind

what I'm suggesting here is this regard

to the Press uh this one may surprise

won't surprise you but it will surprise

some of our viewers I treasure my uh

relations with many members of the press

over the years uh they are not slobs as

some people think uh they are not

inaccurate as many people think

generally I have been really surprised

at how accurately they report if you

give them an

interview uh and I would say too however

that the Press generally is biased uh

some most of them try very hard many of

them try very hard to keep the bias out

of the report uh but where it's a

liberal bias it's extremely difficult

for them to do

so and I would say that as far as the

Press is concerned uh I am a

conservative and I was probably uh a one

of their favorite pinup boys they have

my they have my uh photograph of me over

the Press Club bar and throw darts into

it but you were a sort of Centrist

conservative and Ronald Reagan for

example was far more right-wing than you

were and uh the Press got along with him

I think that that may be due to the fact

that he was never involved however in

one of these what I call seminal issues

uh sure the Panama Canal that didn't

make anybody lose any sleepover the fact

that he took a position on that that was

different from shall we say the

conventional wisdom in the Beltway and

so forth in my case looking at the

period of the Vietnam War which really

ran from about for me uh from about 19

1962 or

3 uh up until the time I left the

presidency the country was divided the

Press was divided and I would say 85 to

90% of the press was against me in the

law about 60% of the country was for me

you said at certain times you said

something about handling the Press but

George Bush handles the Press well and

Ronald Reagan perhaps handled the Press

well why did you not handle

prell it was extremely difficult for me

in that period I'm speaking now my

period's presidency because in the

period of the Vietnam War my press

conferences were uh really shootouts uh

and also there were many occasions when

I was engaged in secret diplomacy with

the Chinese secret diplomacy with the

Russian secret diplomacy to bring the

war in Vietnam to an end during that

period there were just times that I

couldn't go before the press and be

forthright which is what I preferred to

do if I possibly could uh I should have

had more press conferences than I did uh

but under the circumstances I'm not sure

they would have done that much good in

view of the fact that the Press really

had already made up its mind as far as

the issues I was going to discuss there

was no way that I could get a fair

hearing on the Vietnam War position

because they disagreed with it I'm not

suggesting that they're totally wrong I

was totally right I'm simply saying that

explains it in my view was the Press

Your foremost enemy I have uh

but I as far as enemies are concerned I

don't want to leave the impression that

enemies should be should be viewed in

terms of just Total allout War by

enemies their opponents their opponents

they didn't agree with me I didn't agree

with them and so we fought it out but

the Liberals really went after you the

Liberals and the

Press they use Watergate as a as a clug

well it in uh in ESS to them I gave them

the club and uh and they can't be blamed

for that but I think they welcome

getting it and they did it with relish

because I'd also had The Misfortune of

uh proving him roning Kion I remember so

well that uh after I uh had the famous

fun broadcast you remember when I was

vice president Checker speech that's

right and uh my press secretary said

that all the members of the press car

from the eisar plane were out there for

the hanging and and then uh when I had

the speech and it totally turned around

public opinion uh there's nothing

according to Bert Andrews of the New

York herol trib he say there nothing

that turns off intellectual more than a

pro wrong the same is true with regard

to Vietnam when I made my silent

majority speech in

1969 when everybody was saying because

of the demonstrations hundreds of

thousands and a lot of was pretty rough

demonstrating around the White House Etc

I made a speech on television that

turned around public opinion and that is

something that didn't help me with the

Press do you did you set out to get your

enemies while you were president Larry

O'Brien's name comes to mind who was

investigated by the IRS and who may have

been the target of the Watergate

breaking I know you you didn't order it

you you've said many times but but

nonetheless he seems to be somewhere

near the top and I don't understand why

no if I were out to get them I would

have done a much more effective job uh

as far as uh Brian was concerned what

what was involved there very simply was

that the IRS was conducting field AUD

audits of many of my major supporters

and friends and I felt they should also

conduct field audits of top Democrats

were doing exactly the same thing out

say everybody should pay his

taxes but didn't you use the IRS to

punish

enemies not at all I Ed the IRS uh for

the purpose of leveling the play playing

field uh the IRS at that time was

conducting field audits field audits

primarily of people who were my

supporters why would they do that

because it had that kind of a bias and

it still does look the way they're going

after Poor Mrs Reagan uh on her dresses

and so forth they want her to pay taxes

on dresses of her own tour that's I

think a little bit beyond the pale it's

political the IRS is not a non-political

group why uh what makes them political I

wasn't aware that internal Vue Service

agents were uh had one particular

persuasion or another generally speaking

the IRS like all the government

bureaucracy tilts toow all of the all of

your polls will show that uh and as far

as the IRS concerned it is no exception

I'm not suggesting by that that there

aren't a great number of very very

dedicated very honest IRS uh uh

officials and that the people at the top

are engaged in that activ

but generally

speaking in all government bureaucracy

you find very few that tilt to the right

they to to the left because take take

your take your smart kids to go colge

young people uh the ones that have the

top grades uh who are conservative go

into business the one who have the top

grades who are liberal they go into the

media or they go into govern and

therefore they're liberal and therefore

liberal they were likely to be nickon

enemies operate to be for the Nixon

Administration yeah the likely to be yes

um nobody has suggested that the

bureaucracy during a time I was

president was Pro Nixon all the polls

indicated substantially

against of all the enemies that you've

accumulated all over these many years is

there are there one or two that you

really cannot forgive for whatever they

did to you no I have no feelings about

that uh the uh particularly political

enemies U I understand that I mean

politics that's the way the games play

and uh and I think in most cases the

political enemies had were not personal

but it had to do with policy I

understand policy

differences did did you come to like any

of them I mean is there any of them that

you

actually came around to appreciating as

human being well one in particular now

that we're at this house I did learn to

know and to like him very much was Ed

musky musky as you know was a potential

candidate back in 1972 and then came a

CER I we were working on arms control

and uh it it was interesting to work

with musky on arms control we happened

to see things pretty much alike then but

it was also interesting to know him as a

man he has a marvelous sense of humor

he's a coolage buff used to tell all

kinds of stories about coolage but uh we

became very good personal friends

although we are political

adversaries but he was never one of the

the Nixon haters was he I would put it

this way when he was campaigning for

getting the Democratic nomination he

wouldn't have a prayer unless he had

been an

exor who were the the primary people in

the Congress who were vexing you

especially the team it was it was mostly

the people on the Judiciary Committee

the Senate Judiciary Committee who

denied you two supreme court justices in

a row that was Teddy Ken

yes uh the uh Supreme Court fights I

understood however that uh that really

had uh nothing to do with the

qualifications of the people one of the

great losses to the country was the

failure to confirm hanesworth Hayworth

would have been in great Justice and

they brought up some phony issue about

uh ethics which turned out to be

absolutely nothing but strong Thurman

it's thatly thinks that it was a great

miscarriage of Justice he was on the

committee on the Republican side they

kept after you I remember the it Scandal

they had uh you know there was sort of

one thing after another it seemed to be

mainly Judiciary Committee uh Democrats

who were harrying you the more or less

the whole time it could have been

Democrats but also it could be staffers

uh you would generally find that the

most uh uh hardnose types of political

people are on the staffs rather than was

a top level and the staff people have

got to make name for themselves and they

got to prove that they're uh smart and

tough and the rest and uh you'll find

that they can poison the water can be

good was not a conservative in his

domestic policy uh Truman had uh

his

thought it's been fairly clearly

established that anything that your

Administration did during Watergate had

been done by the Johnson Administration

and by the Kennedy administration why do

you think the system conspired to get

you I would say that the system if it

did conspire against uh to get me uh did

so because my views were totally

contrary to theirs basically it was uh

generally speaking uh not the

conservative

Democrats uh or the conservatives in the

media do gener the Liberals and they had

such power that they could bring down a

president well only if the president was

uh uh handled himself in a way that he

gave them uh the means to do so which I

did and in my uh failure to handle the

Watergate thing as I should have the

problem in Watergate of course was not

the be that had happened before too you

know wi trapping and all that sort of

thing and bugging the problem was uh in

not dealing with it forthrightly and

directly and trying to cover it up for

political purposes my mistake in

Watergate was at that time to put

politics my what I consider to be a

political necessity uh above the

statesmanship the president's primary

responsibility among many others his

primary responsibility is to enforce the

law of the land and I did not

effectively do that and I had to pay the

price for it looking back on it what

would you have done who would you have

fired I couldn't tell you that at this

time because I just don't know even now

what would have been the case all that I

do know is this that everybody who was

involved in Watergate I'm referring to

John metell who's the Attorney General

and referring to Bob hton and to others

all of the people that were

involved did not do it for selfish

reasons Watergate contrary to the public

perception uh was not a scandal like the

whis grant whiskey scandals involving

money uh like Teapot Dome which involved

money like the Truman 5 percentage

scandals 5 percentage scandals which

involved money nobody profited from

Watergate at all that was a tragedy of

everyone who did anything on the water

cap matter in the administration did so

because they felt they were serving the

interests of my reelection it was a

mistake and as a matter of fact it was a

politic

politically stupid because there was no

way George mcguin was going to win

anyway and uh that was my political

mistake as well I should have knocked it

off right then and said let's find out

who did this and let him walk the plank

I didn't do that though who do you think

did authorize the break

in I won't even speculate on that either

because that's something that uh

historians are going to have to uh argue

about for as I'm sure they will for many

years you're you're a betting man you

made a lot of money in the Navy what

would you bet that it was your campaign

John

Mitchell no I wouldn't bet that I uh

John Mitchell himself uh has indicated

that uh he was there when the matter was

discussed we're talking about the

Breakin correct and uh and certainly uh

he and he has assumed responsibility for

that but John Mitchell is a very true

political operator he would never prove

such a such a b uh really a stupidly

handled matter five people going in to

place a bug

they looked as if they were looking to

be caught do you have some some thought

that they were looking to be caught that

this was some kind of a setup I have

read that and I am really not able to

comment upon it in fact let me just say

about Watergate and people uh want me to

sometimes write uh articles on it or

answer questions and so forth uh but I

covered it as you know at Great length

in my Memoirs 400 tightly reasoned Pages

uh research by Diane Sawyer and uh Kenan

and Frank gon I covered it again at

length in the frost Pro traps uh I

covered it again in my latest book in

the

arena uh and now I think 18 years of

Watergate is enough I really haven't got

anything to add to it well let let me

just uh push you a little further um is

it possible that there was a lack of

trust in Richard Nixon in other people

that got transmitted down the line to

various people in the

administration such that they thought

that they that there were enemies all

around it is possible I know that that

has been written and suggested by some

uh that the administration had a bunker

mentality that we were paranoic about

enemies and that therefore those people

who won engaged in the Breakin and two

who tried to cover it up uh felt that in

effect they were doing what I wanted and

and I can understand how that happened I

did not intend that uh and uh certainly

it wasn't

Justified uh at I think during the frost

interview you said that if a president

does something it's not illegal you

still believe

that oh that's no question about that uh

but I'm not the source for that in that

broadcast with frost I was quoting

Lincoln uh Lincoln pointed out when he

was under criticism uh for uh denying

habius Corpus and taking another very

strong actions during the Civil War he

said there are some actions which under

normal circumstances would be illegal

become legal if the president orders

them because of the security of the

country and for example uh that would

cover the the wire chattering uh for of

uh to stop the leaks uh which we did

engage in now as a matter of fact they

were not illegal they did not become

illegal until about 1972 when the

Supreme Court's case came down but uh

that was that was the that's the context

in which I made the statement on uh to

uh FR I'm not I'm not suggesting that

anything a president does is is legal I

am suggested that where that in some

areas an action that otherwise would be

illegal becomes legal in the event that

a decision is made that it involves a na

security you've said that you regard

that uh conversation on that tape which

was often called The Smoking Gun as not

revealing anything

illegal right that's great so then why

when that tape came out did you begin

the process of resigning why didn't you

stay and fight it

out but why I didn't stay and fight it

out is goes far beyond that tape uh the

the forces for impeachment had grown so

uh strong that there was no way that I

could govern effectively and under the

circumstances resignation was the only

course that any responsible person

leader could have taken but on the

merits you think you could have won on

the merits on the merits I have always

felt that I would have preferred

preferred uh to have fought it out uh to

have fought it out and gone through the

impeachment process but there is no way

there's no way that that could have

could have possibly uh a decision like

that could be made uh without it being

detrimental to the INF you couldn't have

the president of the United States in

the dock for six months at a time that

you have foreign policy pres uh problems

all the way from Cypress to

Moscow is this your last book is there's

a tone about this book that seems to be

making peace with your adversaries

explaining the whole thing do you you

think this this is it well my last book

would not be one where I would make

peace with my adversaries that be that'd

be totally contrary to my whole career I

don't mean that I enjoy having

adversaries I do mean however that I

don't go along with this idea that the

best politics is consensus politics in

our system if you're going to have an

Effective Government action uh it's has

to be adversarial you have to have

conflict uh you don't have to be a hegan

at to recognize that the that the uh

meshing together of two good ideas

creates a better idea well which

adversaries would you like to get

yet well that list is too long for this

program Mr President thanks very much

for being with us for American interests

I'm Morton krai

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