Original subtitles

The story of the hoist is the

story of sex, of gay sex, male

on male fetish sex. I'm trying

to think of a sex act that

doesn't go on here. You can hear

people screaming sometimes.

Yeah, you hear spanking and

slapping. Whipping, depends on

what you're into I guess. Water

sports, fisting, fucking, nipple

play, cobbled ball torture.

Bootlicking. Bondage. What was

that word? Bootlicking. Yeah,

it's kind of all there isn't it?

Humiliation. The only thing we

can't do, or I can't do, is sick

our sex. That's because it's

outside.

Hi, I'm Ankat Kurtz and I am

from the hoist in London. I've

been running this bar for the

last many many years. We opened

in 1996. I don't want anything

domestic in here. So if you have

it at home, chances are you

won't find it in the hoist. The

hoist is about escapism. It's

about basically having a fantasy

night out. And so I'm very sort

of, what should I say,

protective towards this. Welcome

to the hoist. When they don't

arrive in fetish gear, they want

to change. They want to change

into their rubber or their

leather or their skin gear.

During the week I'm in my suit

and tie going to work. So I

can't really wear anything like

that to work. I've met a lot of

Americans here who are most of

the time shocked that a place

like this exists. And I've got

to tell them, man, you moved to

London. And this is the sort of

the reception area and the pay

point and the coat check. It's a

big coat check. We have sort of

room for 400 plus coats. I'm

Paul. I work at the hoist. I do

other things but primarily

working at the hoist behind the

bar. Kind of part time but I

enjoy doing my nights here. This

is just your basic shit, you

know, for getting the punters

in. Setting up at the moment

Friday night, just doing shit

that I normally do. Simplest

they can do when we do things.

They keep it as simple as

possible. I give them a bag,

they go away, change their

stuff, come back, fix their

money and they go away. Just

shoes and a smile. That's all

you need. Oh yeah, I've had a

few action shots underneath the

counter there while I've been

sorting the guys. A few guys

wanting to suck a cock. So

helping yourself to the punters.

That's one of the good things

about working here. Chatting up

the good boys, you know, and the

dirty boys.

And now we're going into the

main bar. So the first thing you

see when you enter the bar is

sort of this sort of iron cage.

And that instantly gets the

message across what kind of bar

this is. Feel this cage. It is

bolted to the floor and you can

tie somebody up to this. And you

can have hopefully a good time

with it all.

Wow.

Lots of things go on here.

Pretty much as long as you're

not hurting anybody, and as long

as what you do with somebody is

consensual and preferably safe

as well, then I think the hoist

is a good time for everybody.

There's nothing wrong with this.

Obviously I don't tell all my

friends I come here because I

think some people are rushed to

judge and they may think

something different if you tell

them you come to the hoist. So I

only tell a select few of

friends that I come here. And

obviously some people I don't

tell because it's really none of

their business.

This is our big wet area. It's,

I understand, the biggest wet

area in the world. I believe

this is part of the reason why

it's sort of a very sexy,

stimulating environment to be in

because you see this stuff. It

smells good, it feels good, it

looks good. This is our famous

Barberlin, which is the logo and

the sign, which has been made

out of recycled 1970s neon in

order to sort of give it this

sort of trashy porn feel.

And we go into this sort of back

area now of Barberlin. It's sort

of, if you want some privacy and

you want to disappear with your

man, then you can sort of go

into one of these cubicles or

you can sort of go further in

the back and come around here,

step up a little mezzanine,

which we had made especially for

this part of the bar. And

especially on Saturday nights

when Barberlin is open, this

area is very popular. And again,

you can see sort of there is

water dripping from the walls.

We are in a railway house after

all. I wouldn't say dirty, but

quite a sort of rough sort of

industrial, dank smell in here.

Okay, my name is Marco. I was

one of the early barmen who

worked here. My name is Andy.

I've been connected with the

venue for a number of years,

well many years, ever since it

started. My name is Leather Wolf

and I'm Mr. Robert Hoist, 2012.

I'm Kiel Keral Kras and I'm

former Mr. Leather UK and

current Mr. Barber. My name is

Gary and I don't have any titles

at all yet. My name is John

Pendle. I'm a kinky individual

from London, United Kingdom.

I've been coming to the hoist

ever since it opened. And in

2003 I won International Mr.

Leather in Chicago, making me

the only British person ever to

have won it. Hi, I'm David. I

live in London. And I've come to

this place on and off since it

first opened. I used to like

going what we call going

cottaging. And I used to hook up

with this guy who was a lot

older one summer. And yeah, he

liked leather. He liked getting

naked in public. He liked seeing

me strip. I liked the feel of

it. I liked the smell of it. I

liked the smell of him. It's

very, it's all the senses. Guys

go cruising. They go cruising

lay-bys, pick up lorry drivers.

They go cruising in parks. And

of course in the old days,

cottaging, we used to go

cruising in public toilets. I'm

too young.

Not too young to remember any of

that. There's an app to the

hoist. You just remember iPads,

don't you? And apps. Too young.

Where did these ideas of leather

come into your head? I would say

I had good instincts. I always

sort of, I remember for example

as a kid, when I played football

and I was terrible at this. The

goalie, the guy that the

goalkeeper had to sort of sexy

-worn leather gloves in order to

catch the ball. I thought, oh

these are sort of, I like the

texture and I like the look of

this. So this is probably the

earliest memory I have to sort

of be attracted to leather. At

the age of four and a quarter, I

watched an episode of Doctor Who

called Doctor Who and the

Pyramids of Mars, which was Tom

Baker and Elizabeth Slayden. And

the alien was pretending to be

an Egyptian god in English

countryside. And he built a

pyramid which was patrolled by

robot mummies. And the mummies

were very big, broad-shouldered,

male, masculine, deep-chested.

And if they found a trespassing

wayward human, a pair of robot

mummies would come up either

side with the chests at neck

level and squeeze and squeeze

and squeeze and suffocate them

between two big chests. And then

stand back and the human would

drop to the floor dead. And at

four and a quarter I can

remember thinking, I want that

to happen to me. I think I must

have been from about ten or

eleven years of age, quite

young. I think it's from the

childhood as well. And I

remember wearing my father's

motorbike jackets, leather

jackets. And I meant fetishist

leather, but I enjoy other

fetishists as well. I was over

forty before I bought my first

piece of leather and really

showed any interest in it. And

then I saw a movie in the very

early 1980s called Cruising. And

I thought, wow, this is good

stuff, this is sexy stuff, this

is what I like to look at. But I

was of course very careful about

who to talk about this, because

I thought I was the only one who

liked these imageries and the

power play and stuff like that.

So I would say watching

Cruising, the movie, was quite

an important thing for me to

understand what was going on

inside my head and why I liked

what I liked. It just clicks

into a different side. And yeah,

it's very, very sexual. I just

think guys look great in leather

and rubber. Lots of straight

couples who go by will stop and

just ask you what type of club

is it. They like what you're

wearing and they're curious.

They might not admit it, but

they are curious. And sometimes

they want to photograph you.

Absolutely, yeah. I think for a

lot of people, the way we dress

is a fantasy for them. Come

alive. Yeah, that sure is. I

mean, you guys like the way

you're dressed, right?

Absolutely, yeah. It's a bit

hot, but yeah. And this is sort

of a rather unglamorous part of

the club, which is very fun. So

we have a message board for the

community. This is the old

toilet area, which is like

toilet areas are. We have a

piece of chalk and the customers

can write on these blackboards

or, as you can see, on the wall,

whatever they want to write.

Some put their phone numbers

down and what they're into if

they want to meet somebody. My

favorite was once I walked in

here and there was a message on

one of these little blackboards

saying, looking for four tops

tonight to tie me up in the

woods. And somebody else wrote

underneath, I'm very sorry, the

four tops are booked. Will the

churals do? And so it was sort

of priceless things here. So the

guys that come here are quite

funny and witty. And this is the

urinal area. We sometimes have

to sort of keep an eye on this

because quite often guys,

especially on the rubber

weekends, like to come in here

and they come down and what

they're trying to do is they are

trying to unscrew these drains

in order then to sort of put

their mouth underneath these

urinals. Which of course is not

a good idea because other

customers and other men want to

use these urinals and so you

always have to keep an eye on

striking a balance about being

sort of sexy at the same time

but also being respectful

towards other men. The rest of

my life is a very normal life. I

think when the place first

opened I found it quite

intimidating. My own

insecurities as a gay guy on a

scene like all of us have. But

yeah, I felt intimidated and

excited about it. I was

absolutely petrified, absolutely

petrified. I just came in,

bought a drink and sat in a

corner with a magazine and tried

to look at no one. Really?

Absolutely. And what was going

on here? I had no idea because I

kept my head down and hoped that

no one would come to see me or

talk to me and vice versa. I

thought that was my first

triumph and then maybe later on

I'd take the next step to

actually talk to someone. I was

quite nervous. And what

happened? Were you sweating like

me? I was, I discovered I knew

worms I can say. I didn't have

much gear and the only thing I

could muster up was a pair of

boots and some army trousers and

a t-shirt and that was it. And

it wasn't until I actually had a

job and could afford to buy some

leather trousers that probably

that's when I started to feel

comfortable to come here. Well

my first night I tried to turn

around and leave because I'd

never been in such an

environment before where here

was everybody that I ever wanted

but I didn't think I fit in. I

had very low self-esteem. I had

a pair of cut-off Levi shorts. I

think maybe a pair of leather

braces. We call them in the UK

suspenders in America. But it

really wasn't a lot and then you

walk into a sea of black

leather, knee-high boots, the

full language jackets and feel

like I want to be here but I

don't deserve to be here. So I

tried to turn around and leave

and somebody caught me on that

first night and said where are

you going? And I said I don't

know what I'm doing. I'm

fleeing. He said you have to

stand as if you've left your

coat hanger inside your shirt.

And have an open posture so you

don't fold your arms. You have

your arms out. And the higher

you hold a pint the more nervous

you are because you're hiding

behind it physically so you drop

it down. The guys who stand

against the wall with a pint on

a leg, they're the ones who seem

to be the most confident. So

hold the pint low, have an open

posture, look towards the middle

of the club, have a slight

smile, eyes wide, stand with the

coat hanger in the back. And he

basically pimped me.

And those stairs that we're

walking up now have been sort of

made on the premises by a

blacksmith from Yorkshire. This

is all sort of solid metal. We

have the famous hoist. After all

the club is called the hoist.

And this is the original hoist.

We like the look of it and we

thought this is the perfect name

for a club. It is still in use.

We wanted the club to be real.

We wanted the club to be not

pretentious or showy. We wanted

it to be the real thing. You

have stuff like slings which you

do have in fetish clubs. There

are quite a few slings around

here.

Yes, yes.

If you think about it, this

sling has been up here for 18

years and it's still in pretty

good nick. So you can see this

is sort of quality stuff. This

is the original sign that was

outside on the street. Since we

opened I kept telling the guys

that sort of work with me here

that we need to have a very sort

of strict order in terms of

lights. So I want the lights

straight down. I don't want them

to go left, right and centre

because we are not a flashy

dance club. We are a male only

fetish club. And so forever in

the last sort of many, many

years I go around and this is

before we open and I straighten

every single light in this club.

Like for example this one is

skew now. So I go before we open

the doors to the public, I go

around very obsessively, very

nerdy and straighten every

single light in this club. So

because I feel they need to come

down in a very strict sort of

straight sort of order.

It's sort of a little secret

door which you see here. It's

cordoned off, it's padlocked and

so the public can't get to this.

But this is the place that we

use for special private

invitation only parties.

It's quite dark and it's very

rough.

Whatever goes on here will stay

here because it's private.

This is an original piece from

the original opening days of the

hoist. It's our boot shine

chair. Every Friday and Saturday

night we have a boot shine here

on site that is basically here

to polish the boots of the men

that come here. And the proceeds

of this will go to charity. The

hoist is supporting various

charities. Amongst others it's a

charity called Food Train. We

also support Peter Tatchell who

is quite a well-known and

important gay activist. All

campaign stuff and it's all

hidden in there. It's great

actually. It's not very nice to

live here too. It's horrible but

I have to make the best of it.

I'm Peter Tatchell, human rights

campaigner. Gay male

homosexuality was only finally

decriminalised in Britain in

2003. Up until that point there

had been a criminalisation of

almost every aspect of gay male

life. Until 1967, male

homosexuality had been

criminalised with a maximum

penalty of life imprisonment. In

that year the maximum penalty

was reduced to five years and

same-sex relations were in

certain narrow defined

circumstances decriminalised.

Not legalised but

decriminalised. Sex between men

was not prosecuted although it

remained on the subject books.

Providing both men were aged 21

or over and providing the sexual

act took place in the privacy of

their own home behind locked

doors and windows with the

curtains drawn and with no other

person present in any part of

the house. So you can see it was

a very narrow, limited, strict

decriminalisation. The age of

consent was set at 21 compared

to 16 for heterosexual men and

women. So there's a five year

gap. In other words young gay

men aged 16 to 21 were still

treated as criminals as were

their partners. Almost every

other aspect of gay life

remained illegal. So for example

under the anti-soliciting laws

it was illegal and immoral for

two men to meet in a public

place with the intention of

arranging a sexual assignation.

So gay cruising was completely

unlawful and punishable by up to

two years jail. It was also

illegal to procure a homosexual

act in certain circumstances

even to procure a lawful

homosexual act. Procuring meant

anything like encouraging,

inviting, aiding and abetting or

facilitating a homosexual act.

In other words there was a

limited decriminalisation but

for most gay people the law

remained very intrusive and

threatening. In 1989 my research

discovered that more gay men

were being arrested and

convicted of the main anti-gay

offence, so called gross

indecency, than in 1966, the

year before decriminalisation.

That was absolutely shocking and

astonishing to discover. I also

discovered that the police were

using a range of other laws to

prosecute gay and bisexual men.

For example the law against anal

sex, so called buggery law, the

police used the law about raging

public decency, they used the

indecency clause of the town and

police clauses act of 1847, they

used the indecency provisions of

the 1860 Ecclesiastical Courts

Jurisdiction Act, which was

formerly part of church law

dating back to the 16th century.

A whole vast range of laws

including public order laws that

were brought in to combat

football colonialism and street

rioting were used to prosecute

gay and bisexual men. Same sex

couples could be arrested for

merely kissing, cuddling and

holding hands in the street. So

you get a sense, this really was

a very limited decriminalisation

and it's astonishing that the

law that sent Oscar Wilde to

prison in 1895, the so called

gross indecency law, was only

repealed in 2003. Likewise the

law against anal sex, other

people may call it sodomy, which

was passed in 1533 during the

reign of King Henry VIII, was

only repealed in 2003. So the

ending of criminalisation is

actually a very recent

phenomenon in modern British

history. This is the original

poster that we did for the hoist

and we got a German guy from

Hamburg to design it and I was

presented with this when we

first opened on the 21st of

March 1996 by Kurt and Guy who

along with me had sort of

started the club off. Coming

originally from Hamburg in

Germany I was used to sort of a

different style bar. It was, and

I thought London could do with a

sort of European continental

style, German feel, gay men only

fetish bar. I was talking to

friends about this with my

partner at the time and

everybody was saying oh yeah

it's terrible here, we can't go

anywhere and there's nowhere to

go and nobody did anything about

it. So my partner at the time,

Guy and myself decided one

evening, well if nobody does

anything nothing will get better

so I thought one evening we

thought let's do it ourselves.

My name's Guy Owen and I'm the

managing director of the Hoist

Limited. How did I meet Kurt? We

met in 1992, we met in a bar in

London and we just hit it off

very well, we just got on very

well. Yeah, so we just got on

very well. I remember from my

time in Hamburg that the best

places for gay male fetish bars

are industrial places. They can

be either power stations, which

of course is not realistic

because they are too big and too

expensive, or railway arches or

car mechanic places, stuff that

feel a bit so gritty and dirty

and rough. Kurt and I visited

New York on several occasions

and we were both very inspired

by the look and the feel of the

lure, which sadly no longer

exists. And we thought wouldn't

it be great to create something

like that in London. We said

yeah we should open our own

place and we just sat over

coffee just talking about this

and as a lot of discussions go

and we went away with some sort

of resolve. But never thinking

that anything would happen

straight away, I was busy doing

other things. But Guy suddenly

rang me up two or three days

later and says, you know what we

were saying the other day, I

think I found a venue. I found

this disused railway arch one

day when I was driving my car

through Vauxhall. We stuck our

head in, it was empty, no that's

a lie, it wasn't empty, it was

sort of ice cream vans were sort

of stored in here and funnily

enough the ice cream brand was

called Mr Whippy. Yeah famously

the late Baroness Thatcher

invented Mr Whippy, I don't know

if you know that, the type of

ice cream, so I think there's

sort of a strange irony in that.

It was quite sort of funny, so

Mr Whippy wanted to vacate the

premises, so we got a deal, we

took on the premises, we sort of

refurbished it and then we

opened. A few months later Guy

and myself decided the dress

code is what we like to see in

here. So we defined the dress

code as leather, rubber,

uniform, skinhead, industrial.

Financially it was all my life

savings and my redundancy money,

so it was a massive financial

risk. Emotionally there was the

emotional strain of running what

would legally be deemed an

immoral house. And I think I

don't know, it's something like

the 1564 Immoral Houses Act or

something, you know, some

obscure piece of legislation

that the police at the time

could dig out and use against

you. We made the decision that I

would be the sole licensee, so

that in the event of the police

arresting

me for running an immoral house,

that I wouldn't have assets that

they could seize. And that was a

very, at the time, that was a

very important consideration

because it had happened to

people previously living off

immoral earnings, which was not

designed for bars and clubs, it

was designed more for fully

working brothels. Yeah, when we

started the venue we did our

sums and we worked out how many

people we needed. And we came

out with a sort of figure that

would sort of make it worthwhile

as a sort of venture. And when

we opened, probably about four

or five times that number came

in over a weekend than we'd

originally sort of needed, and

many, many more than we really

expected. And it went on for

week after week after week. The

bar was much more successful in

terms of numbers and reputation

than I ever thought it would be,

or we ever thought it would be.

So we thought initially we'd do

it for two years and then two

years became three, became five,

became seven. And it was still

going strong. We're

predominantly talking pre

-internet.

My name is Brian Robinson and

I'm here at the hoist on

London's glittering South Bank.

Well, I've lived in London for

over 30 years and been to a lot

of different places. And the one

thing that London used to really

lack was a decent leather bar.

There have been dozens and

dozens of bars that have been

run by straight people. I mean,

I can remember there was a

famous gay bar in St. Martin's

Lane called the Salisbury, which

was one of the main gay bars in

the heart of theatre land. And

it was a big scandal because two

men kissed in the bar. And if

you can imagine that people were

so desperate to go to any gay

bar in the centre of town that

they put up with it, that there

was no touching, that people who

owned the bar wanted it to

appear, to all intents and

purposes, as a straight bar. And

the notion that people might be

sexually attracted to each other

was a kind of inconvenience

because it might have upset the

straight customers. The scene

before here was very... there

was the Coal Herd, which was the

bar that had been really going

from the 60s. But it closed at

11 o'clock at night and it was

just a bar. Public toilets were

a big place for picking up at

the time. And Hampstead Heath

was hugely important and hugely

popular.

At a time when... I mean, I can

remember working on London

Lesbian and Gay Switchboard and

talking to people who were

exploring certain parts of their

fetishistic identities or

interested in doing it, and

talking about how they were just

too frightened to even open the

door of the Coal Herd. One guy

had walked past it a dozen times

and not been able to go in

because people, they didn't know

what could possibly go on

inside. They had visions of, you

know, terrible, wonderful orgies

that were kind of miles away

from what was really going on.

The Coal Herd was a strange

place that... it kind of worked

against really creating a sense

of community. I'm sure there

were very nice barmen. But

knowing that the police might be

outside moving you on, there was

a time in the early 80s when the

police sent in agent

provocateurs to try and get

people to have sex in the

toilets. The police attitude

seemed to have been, we've given

you an inch, you're not getting

an inch further. And so what

happened was an escalation in

police entrapment and

surveillance operations,

particularly targeting public

toilets, but also parks and

beaches. So anywhere where gay

men might go cruising became

fair game. What the police would

do is choose a young, handsome

officer, dress him up in a white

t-shirt, tight white jeans,

black boots and a leather

jacket, and then send him into

public toilets and parks where

gay men went to, in effect,

incite the commission of

homosexual acts. Sometimes these

officers would play with

themselves, occasionally even

get out their dick, and any gay

man who responded would be

arrested. What Outrage did in

response was to produce leaflets

warning gay men that police

agent provocateurs were

operating in the area. We pasted

these leaflets on the back of

toilet doors and over urinals.

We stapled them to trees in

parks and gardens where the

police were operating. We also

surreptitiously did our own

surveillance and photographed

the undercover police officers

and then put their photographs

out in public places so that gay

men could look out for these

officers and be aware that they

were undercover agents. It

really, really riled the police.

They were furious. We rubbed our

hands with glee. It was such

fun. I mean the notion of even

walking around in leather

trousers in London in the 80s

was pretty outre that most

people didn't do it. There were

other places that started in the

80s, but nearly all of those

were just a special night. You

know, a Thursday night at the

Celebar or a Monday night at the

Block. There were places that

happened once a week in a

supermarket shopping centre

complex. It's amazing how erotic

a few bits of tarpaulin and

camouflage netting can look. And

they took over empty space and

that was the fetish bars of the

80s. The aim of this government

is to make everyone as miserable

as possible. We then had this

disgusting piece of legislation

introduced by Margaret Thatcher

in the late 80s called Clause

28, which was a section of the

Local Government Bill that was

intended to prohibit local

authorities, that's city

councils, from promoting

homosexuality in any shape or

form. It was a really nasty,

vociferous piece of legislation

that as a gay man, I was 28 when

it came onto the statute book.

It wasn't what it did, it's what

it kind of implied and said

about gay men, that they were

stigmatised,

very different. It created a

lot. It gave the right-wing

media in this country green

light to attack city councils

that were trying to introduce

equality policies, what

Americans call affirmative

action and things like that. It

gave the green light to a lot of

right-wing press in this

country. That was one of

Thatcher's masterpieces.

Interestingly, the last time she

ever voted in Parliament before

she died was a vote that she,

when the Labour government that

came in in 97, were absolutely

committed to repealing that

piece of legislation. Margaret

Thatcher's last vote in the

House of Lords was to vote

against that piece of

legislation being repealed. I

always say to any gay men who

get dewy-eyed about Margaret

Thatcher, that maybe bear that

in mind. The AIDS epidemic was

really ramping up. There were no

cocktail cures available. They

were pretty dark days. The sex

that we have here has been an

evolved sex over many, many

years. How things change? I

think HIV has a huge part to

play in how sex has changed.

I'm Joseph Sonnenbend. I'm a

physician and a scientist. I am

a specialist in medicine in

infectious diseases and

particularly in sexually

transmitted diseases. I lived in

New York most of my adult life

and happened to be in New York

when AIDS first became apparent

in 1981, at which time I was

running a practice. My patients

were gay guys. I had quite a lot

of experience in taking care of

guys who actually were among the

very first to come down with

this disease. I guess I have

that particular experience of

being in, as it were, at the

beginning or even before the

beginning. A couple of my

patients became quite active. A

guy called Michael Callan and

Richard Berkowitz. I think, no,

at least I know that we, the

three of us, produced what I

guess we recognized as being the

first safe sex guidelines. A

little book we published

ourselves called How to Have Sex

in an Epidemic. Most of the guys

in New York who saw it were

incredibly grateful. In fact,

there was a big difference

between the response on the

ground from actual individuals.

I've got a shoe box somewhere

full of letters from all over

the place, some of them even

from outside the US.

I sort of thank you. We're

pleased to have got it. But

slowly we got some kind of

response from the more official

kind of gay response, but mostly

they hated us. That's to say,

then I suppose the leadership of

the gay community in New York

City was the Gay Men's Health

Crisis, who really didn't like

us at all. They didn't like us

with a passion, really, all

three of us. They continued. In

fact, one of them, a guy called

Larry Mass, wrote a thing about

me and said I was a mass

murderer.

A little disconcerting. Anybody

living in New York in 1975, on

the US Post Stonewall, you have

to have been there to have seen

it, basically. I don't think

it's just beyond words really to

describe it. It was a great

time. It was a very dangerous

time, but nobody quite knew. The

first people to get sick were

the people who were coming to me

because they had gonorrhea and

they had syphilis. In trying to

explain what was going on, I did

speak about this. It wasn't just

somebody living with a single

partner or somebody who just had

sex now and again or whatever.

Those guys weren't getting sick.

Maybe later on they did, but not

in the beginning. In pointing

out to a particular lifestyle, I

think this offended the GMHC. In

fact,

stupidly,

there's a little bit where Larry

Kramers says something to the

people. We couldn't tell people

how about this because they

wouldn't have any sympathy for

us. They could take a look at

the mine shaft sort of thing and

what would they think?

It's ridiculous. Actually, that

means he was a little bit

ashamed of himself, I suppose.

The deaths, and I knew people

who were dying every week in the

80s, particularly the 85 to 90

were terrible times. Two of my

late partners both died of it.

I think it was a big mistake. I

think it was a hugely big

mistake, a ridiculously big

mistake. I think it was more, I

can see no reason for it other

than as an expression of,

I'd say homophobic, but the

truth is that many gay people

agreed with it. It was just

short-sightedness and stupidity

and maybe giving in to the need

to show that they were doing

something. They would have been

much better to use the

bathhouses as a place to educate

people. It's the point of

closing the bathhouses. You

can't close people's bedrooms.

It's kind of ridiculous. Some

people were critical of the

hoist saying that it was

encouraging too much sex in an

era of HIV and AIDS. The

experience in London has been

different to say in New York

where a lot of bars, I mean I've

never been to New York, I only

heard stories that they got

closed down because of the AIDS

epidemic. What's been different

in this country is the way that

the health services have been

prepared to link in to venues

and the fact that you can come

in here and you can get condoms

and you can make an informed

choice around the sex you have.

Local health authority would

come down here with the HGLC

guys and they would engage

people in conversations around

the sex that they had and that

only can happen because the

health service as well as the

police are enlightened to that

conversation. So that's why

these places can still exist is

because you have that

partnership approach. It's not

like, oh look they're fucking

down there and they're spreading

AIDS and let's close it down.

It's been a more, well guys are

going to have sex, well they're

having sex in public, they're

having sex openly and you know

what, we can link in to that and

give a health message out and

that's been I suppose an

enlightened approach compared

with what's happening in some

cities in America where it's

like, yeah just shut them all

down. What does that do? Drive

it all underground. Does it

increase or decrease the HIV? No

it doesn't. People still get it.

Guys still fuck. People were

denied a chance to be educated

and use condoms. It was

irrational and completely

stupid. Very stupid. In this

period there were still people

in the LGBT community who argued

that in response to HIV and AIDS

we should have less sex and that

having lots of sex was not a

good idea. My own view was that

having lots of sex is fine

providing it's safe. Providing

you don't put yourself or your

partner at risk. I think that

was the philosophy of the hoist.

It was not about responding to

HIV and AIDS by saying we should

dampen our sexuality and

desires. It was not about saying

that sex was bad or dangerous.

It was about celebrating sex but

encouraging people to have sex

safely and responsibly. I think

that was a moral choice, a moral

decision, a moral attitude. The

big mistake is on people when

you talk to them, they think

you're moralizing. There's

nothing wrong about the bath

houses. It's the background of

what's going on. By 1995-1996

safe sex had come through. There

were a lot of people who were

practicing safe sex at that

time. Also the first combination

of therapists were coming

through. People were a little

bit more confident and getting

better. It was a big change by

1995-1996. Yes, we encouraged

safe sex and we still provide

condoms today. I think that's a

very important thing. Getting

that message across is not

always easy. Particularly to

some of the really young people.

One thing that really upsets me

is when I meet guys in their

twenties who have become

positive. When they've had all

the education. A lot of my

friends didn't know about it.

Until we get rid of all these

germs, it will always happen. I

think when you reach a certain

age, it can always happen. If

it's not about HIV, it will be

something else. We live in

a sexphobic, let alone

homosexual, it's just sex.

People are squeamish,

frustrated, who knows what.

Screwed up is all hell. That for

a start. When you get put in the

gay thing, it's even worse. When

you associate sex, a particular

kind of sex, with death and

disease, that becomes an attack

on sex in a way. It can be used

as an attack on sex. We were

very careful in our safe things.

To make a celebration of sex. To

stress the whole time that sex

is a vital part of one's

experience. That it's part of

being human. It's one of life's

joys. And use condoms to

keep yourself alive, basically

speaking. There are condoms,

lubes, available for those

people who do want to practice

safer sex. So it is available,

whether the person chooses to do

so or not. That's ultimately

their choice and their

responsibility. I suppose I've

never felt unsafe here. I've

been HIV positive, diagnosed for

15 years. I'm undetectable,

thank God. I look after my body,

I eat well, I go to the gym. I

suppose it is a safe place for

people with HIV. I wonder

whether it's a safe place for

people who are negative. I

wonder. That might sound a

little controversial. Why would

you wonder that?

Because there are places that

are leather bars, and I'm not

particularly singling out this

one. Are places where people

have unprotected sex. And there

are places where people want to

have unprotected sex. And I

wonder that if you are negative,

whether you feel you want to or

should or fit in. Or whether you

feel you can't use the condoms

that are here. I would say now

that people recognise that HIV

status has got nothing to do

with fetish and nothing to do

with how and where people choose

to have their sex. We worked

very closely with the local

health authorities and with the

National Health Service. And

that permeated it out away from

issues around sex to more

latterly issues around drugs and

sex. Because that's become more

recently more of an issue with

the proliferation of party

drugs. I'm Geoffrey Hinton. Most

people know me for DJing. I've

worked in clubs for eons. A long

long time. We're actually in

Brompton Cemetery. It's in Ells

Court in London. It kind of was

well known for its cruising. Not

so much anymore. Maybe after

work sort of cruising and all, I

guess. But Ells Court in general

was a very gay area, especially

during the early 70s. So it's

about the mid 80s started to

tail off around then I think. A

lot of gay bars were around

here. Cole Herne being one of

the most famous ones, which is

the leather and denim one. I

think AIDS had a huge huge

effect on because it took out a

big arc of people's experiences.

So who came after that sort of

gap? Because it actually

physically took people away. I

mean they're not here. They're

dead. So the people after that

and as goes on have very little

reference. You know, real

reference to how things were

before. They might read about it

or something, but it's not the

same. I think drugs are partly

just to ignore all that. Just to

kind of block it and just like

escape from reality.

It seems to be escaping from

reality, but not in an inclusive

sense. Not celebrating with your

friends. More in a kind of

annihilation of yourself.

Because there's a big difference

between smoking, even acid,

speed, ecstasy. Obviously it was

around. So all these drugs are

kind of, they work with a kind

of social interaction sexual

vibe. More of a fluid sort of

one from the other to the other.

Acid is a bit weird, but I never

had a problem with it. But when

you go into kind of like, you

know, later drugs now, like

Crystal, Katamine, G, all those

things. They're very anesthetic

mad drugs. So you're in your

kind of brain thing. So people

walk around in more of a zombie

sort of way. And that kind of

sex, chemsex sort of club, party

thing you have now. It's a

little bit like zombies doing

that thing. Which is a different

set up from, I think, cruising.

Because cruising is more that,

even if it's in a club, it's

just looking and playful and

flirting and touching. It's more

about the immediacy of the

situation. If you go along with

the situation there and then,

what happens is, you know,

dynamic. I think it's

interesting. But the drugs have

kind of even taken that away,

that immediate, that kind of

spark, that thing that you meet

someone and you kind of,

something happens and something

just goes from there quite

quickly. Because drugs, you're

already in a kind of catatonic

state and you're in a kind of

dream state. The other person

will come into it, but it's not,

the engagement is very

different. It's a kind of, you

know, anesthetic sort of

engagement. A detachment really,

very detached. Now because of

drugs and everything, you're

getting 21, 22 year olds going

out buying huge toys and fisting

each other. Where do you go from

that, apart from pissing on each

other and all the other extreme

things that people get in to get

their heart motivated and their

head sparking again, you know?

Stuff that you'd have to do in

your late 50s, early 60s. I see

young guys having to go into

more and more extreme things

just to get their head sparking

again, you know? What do you do?

Sodom and Gomorrah again.

Well, I was one of a number of

people who organised campaigns

to challenge the unequal age

consent. Mostly working through

the LGBT rights group Outrage.

We staged a number of very high

profile visible protests to

challenge the unequal age

consent. And as a result, public

opinion began to change. So that

by the early to mid 1990s, a

majority of the public supported

an equal age consent. It was the

politicians that were holding

back. In 1994, the age of

consent was reduced to 18. There

was a vote in parliament to

reduce it to 16, to equalise it

with heterosexual men and women.

But that vote was lost. And it

took almost another decade

before the politicians finally

managed to get around to

equalising the law. The law

around public sexual encounters

was at best vague, at worst

discriminatory. Indicative of

the bias and discrimination of

the police towards the LGBT

community is the way in which

gay pornography was repressed

much more harshly than

equivalent straight pornography.

Likewise, in the 1990s, the

police had a big campaign

against consensual gay

sadomasochism. But no equivalent

campaign against consensual

heterosexual sadomasochism. And

many of the officers involved

seem to be coming to these

issues from the point of view

that gay people, an aspect of

gay lifestyle, were

qualitatively more dangerous,

more immoral, more worthy of

prosecution than the comparative

straight ones. It was bias,

homophobic bias, pure and

simple. It was not uncommon in

the early 90s to hear of gay men

being harassed in public places

such as, you know, Hampstead

Heath and Clapham Common. And

there were a number of other

very high profile cases that

went along. You know, the

Spanner case was a particular

one. After stepping down as

International Mr Leather, I

became the trustee of the

Spanner Trust for four years,

who are campaigning in the

United Kingdom to change the law

regarding sexual activity where

injury occurs, because that's

currently illegal. And they also

help people who have got into

trouble because their SM

activities have led them into

legal hot water. In 1990, a lot

of gay men were taking part in

sadomasochistic activities and

videotaping it, because they had

no reason to believe it was

against the law. There was a gay

man who was stopped in his car

and the police searched the car

and they found one of the

videotapes. And to begin with,

what they saw horrified them so

much they thought they were

looking at a snuff murder movie.

So they set up a murder inquiry.

The inquiry lasted seven years

and cost the public millions of

pounds in taxpayers money. So at

the end of it, they had to come

up with something to justify the

expense. So they prosecuted 16

of the gay men who didn't

necessarily know each other and

hadn't necessarily played with

each other, but they had taken

part in consensual SM and

videotaped it. None of them had

required hospital care, but the

rest of the men were offered the

chance who were part of the

investigation. I think it was

about 100 men to turn Queen's

evidence on the 16. So they

wouldn't be prosecuted if they

gave evidence against the 16.

The men turned up to court

believing that what they'd done

was fine because it was

consensual. On the very first

day of the trial, the judge,

whose name was Judge Rant, said,

I'm not going to allow consent

as a defense in this case. And

that was the first time that had

been said. And the men were

screwed because they'd already

admitted to what they'd done,

but they said it was consensual.

That was their defense. So their

only other option was to plead

guilty to try and get lighter

sentences. And instead, the

judge gave them the harshest

sentences that he could. They

were sent to prison as sex

offenders, the ones who had

public jobs, lost their pension

in their homes as well. Some of

them were locked up 23 hours a

day. And that was known as the

Spanner Trial. And

unfortunately, that law is still

on the books. You can consent to

an injury in this country if

it's for entertainment, if it's

for medical reasons, if it's for

body decoration, if it's for

sport. But the one thing you

can't do is consent if it's for

sexual pleasure. The hoist opens

up and it is allowing,

facilitating gay sex in a club,

gay sex involving more than two

people, and gay sex involving

consensual sadomasochism, which

not long previously had been

declared illegal by the courts.

It was a very brave move to open

the hoist. And in many ways, you

could say that it was a defiant

protest against the way in which

the police and courts were

criminalizing same sex behavior.

The hoist got away with it

because at the time, the LGBT

community was highly politicized

and highly mobilized. And to be

honest, the establishment were

afraid of us. They knew that we

could create hell, that we could

give them bad PR. So the police

sort of stepped back and began

to be much more circumspect

about when and how they

intervened. And that's the

context in which the hoist was

able to get away with public sex

on the premises. I hope that we

made a little contribution to

make Britain a fairer and a

better place for gay men who are

into BDSM and fetish. To feel

able only to have sex in the

dark says something about who

you are as a person. And it goes

back to that central core of

shame and naughtiness and

getting away with it. There was

this terrible air of enforced

secrecy and it was kind of cloak

and dagger.

And it's good that we've moved

on a bit from that. Hearing and

seeing people enjoying

themselves is the biggest turn

on, I think. So, you know,

having the opportunity of

spending time with other people

who are kinky is really cool.

It's very limited who can go

there. And if you're not a gay

man, then you're excluded. As

someone who runs a lot of and

wanted to do sex positive

places, and Club Fuck as I ran

for six years, it was open for

everyone. The name was Club

Fuck, so it was a fuck club. You

know, it wasn't a nose job,

hiding away from it. It was a

place where a lot of people

could come, you know, because

when you go through

transitioning and things like

that, your sexuality might

change as well, meaning where do

you go and learn if it's not

belonging to the norm that

you're brought up with

understanding? But so this is

also the problem. Because we

were open to a variety, it

minimized the way the box is so

much. So everyone who came

almost complained that it wasn't

what they wanted or, you know,

they didn't find the people they

were attracted to. I don't have

to run something if people don't

love it. And of course, like

anyone who have ever done in a

club and things like that, as

soon as you stop something,

people are like, oh my gosh, I

loved it. Oh, I'm so sad. I

missed it. And yeah, and it's

not there anymore.

I know of trans guys who have

been to the hoist, but they all

have to go stealth. Yeah, go

with a mate, go with a gay guy

who's OK, take them and keep a

bloody close eye that they don't

get into trouble. My name is

Kerry Cronenwet. When I stayed

in London, I stayed at a squad

that was around the corner from

the hoist. And one of my friends

that lived there, Drake, would

go off on adventures to the

hoist and sometimes come home

with stories. And I decided I

wanted to go. And so, yeah, so I

went. He had to lend me a pair

of leather trousers. He dressed

me up and we walked over to the

hoist. There was a there was a

bit of a question. I was

actually when I went, it was

before I transitioned and I

sometimes passed as a man, but

not with any consistency. So

there was a bit of a question

whether I'd make it past the

door. I was nervous. I was

nervous that I would get sort

of, you know, humiliated, stoned

at the door or something like

that when my true identity was

revealed. Yeah, but I made it

inside and got to see what the

hoist was all about. There was

one guy that was on to me and

who made some remark. He called

me a tomcat. He said something

like, it's a tomcat. I didn't

play with anyone that night. I

didn't and I didn't actually go

there expecting to. I kind of I

just wanted to see the place.

But I was I was too shy to sort

of try to interact with people.

I mean, I think in general, like

on a theoretical level, like,

yeah, I think that it would be

nice to do away with door

policies like that and have

there be more freedom. In more

trans inclusive spaces. But I

must say that at the time, I

wasn't I was kind of excited

about the idea of being in men

only places. And that's part of

the attraction. I still like to

go to sex clubs now and then.

But the excitement of the

infiltration has kind of worn

off because I pass this mail and

it's not.

It's it's I mean, just that

angle of the excitement isn't

there. Looking back on it now,

it doesn't seem like such a big

deal. But at the time, it was

like, well, I made it inside the

police. I am like Sandra. Also

none of that stuff because it's

easy to remember. I'm a trans

man pushing 50 who has been

around on various different

scenes for a long, long, long

time. Around trans issues,

certainly things have changed.

Even, you know, my attitude

changed over the years from

being wary and nervous to it now

being relatively accepted. Not

fully. There's still pockets of

people who will have an attitude

and a problem. And that can

still affect you. No matter how

old you are, no matter how happy

and comfortable you are, you can

still get affected by people's

bad attitude, the wrong

comments. And it will just set

you back. But I think BDSM

community is like more open to

trans gender people of both or

whatever gender expression just

because. You play around well,

and so therefore you will get a

butched eye who is a daddy who

will not have a problem so much

with people who transition to

male and female. You will get

gay men who have been a puppy.

And so therefore they're not

going to have an attitude about

a gender expression as much. And

that's good and that is going to

get better and better,

especially with younger people

coming in, more acceptance, more

openness. I just like kinkier

stuff. So that's why I do it.

You know, if I didn't like it,

I'd stop. Well, the computer has

made a huge difference. And it's

made a lot of positive things,

but there's a number of negative

things that it's done as well.

When you have all these

technology changes, internet

driven technology changes,

people started to go less out.

OK, I'm Ashley Ryder. I'm a porn

actor. I've been in porn since

the age of 24. If I'm honest, I

haven't been to this venue for a

year. And that's not because I

haven't wanted to. It's just

because I haven't needed to.

When you're at home and you've

got the internet and everything

else, that makes it so much

easier. I don't think we even

get asked for bits of paper for

telephone numbers as much as we

used to do. The internet's had a

profound impact on the way that

all bars operate, not only the

hoist, absolutely. At one time,

you would have to come out and

physically go to a bar or a club

to meet somebody. And then you

would talk or whatever. If you

wanted to go home or whatever.

Now people can sit at home in

the luxury of the comfort of

their home, you know, with their

pyjamas on if they want to, and

pick up on lines. It's like fast

food, isn't it? You know, you

can go and grind her and it can

sometimes be super fast. Other

times you're having to call a

manager over and say, hang on a

second, why has this taken so

long? If you're always online

dialing up exactly what you

want, you've just fed a diet of

reinforcing what you already

know you like. People become

really, really specific with

what they want. I mean, that's

one of the things I've noticed,

because with the social sites,

you can say exactly what your

fetish is. That down to, you

know, the last of me new time.

Whereas in the old days, you saw

somebody you liked, they fitted

the bill, you met them, you had

an evening. It might not be

perfect, but you'd find

something that was good about

them and you might even have a

lifelong friend. It seems

everybody is doing the internet,

but they have to have the fancy

phones and the right apps. And

if you've not got the money or

the access, it actually becomes

harder. A lot of people from

many generations don't like the

hostile element of the internet.

You know, looking at someone's

photograph, you can't tell their

personality from that. Yeah, you

can see they've ranted and raved

about a load of bullshit on

their profile information. But

you know, you don't know what

they're going to be like until

they show up. I'm not on any

website. I don't have a profile.

It doesn't work for me. The web

allows people to hide behind

facades. And I've always

maintained that you can't tell

on the internet if somebody has

bad breath. There was a great

cartoon I saw in an American

magazine where a superhero

character goes back to the

Castro in the summer of 1977.

And people are walking up and

down and he's thinking in the

thought bubble, oh, these

incredible horny, handsome men

with their big moustaches and

tight shorts and muscles and

leather gear. How on earth am I

going to meet them? Because the

internet hasn't been invented

yet. But in the olden days,

hello was the sexiest thing that

you could say to somebody

because you could have a

conversation. So we now have

this situation where we have

guys who still come to the

hoist, but they'll be on their

mobile phone on a number of

apps. They'll use a number of

apps while they're in there,

which I find very amusing

really. The notion that you can

only talk to people because you

want to have sex with them is

something that maybe might

pertain to some of the younger

generation. I think social media

and the internet have given so

much more information to people

that there's no mystique

anymore. I think nothing

replaces the fact that you can

meet someone face to face. I

prefer to come out and socialise

rather than sit at home staring

at my phone and an app. They

might tell me that my nearest

homosexual is 100 yards away. My

nearest homosexual is that I

like her right here. I don't

need an app to tell me that. I

can just come here.

Don't worry, I'll hold you up in

Jack of Olives. Come on, I've

worked here. Start off glass

collecting now. I always say

this is the dark side of the

sleep at the club, because you

see all the nooks and crannies

and the mess. After all the cats

that have had fun after the

weekend, this is the glamorous

side. One thing about me is that

I've got a high standard to make

sure they've got no bacteria, no

germs lying around for them. I

used to be a customer from Dear

War when the club opened. I

spent every night and year when

the club was open. They'd say,

alright, we'll give you a job. I

love being by myself in the

club. I love my job. I really

do. I like my job. I keep saying

to myself, I'll get too old for

this, but I don't. I wouldn't

have it any other way. I'm 42

this year. I'm from the Saloniss

when I'm 62. We're all one big

happy family in here.

I've probably somewhere naked in

a club in London somewhere, or

in my underwear with my legs

wrapped around my neck. I've got

no shame. I've got a high sex

drive. I'm in my juxtap here. It

has been known that I've

disappeared in a corner, or

disappeared in a sleep. At least

I know where I am.

It's changed a lot over the

years. Literally it has changed.

It's just changed. Customers

have gone. New breed of gear

guys have come out. They've gone

back onto the scene. The leather

scene has changed. The rubber

scene has changed. They don't

have a lot of leather guys

around now. I don't know if

they've moved away or what. You

don't see a lot of leather guys

unless they have a big event on.

They would be naked in

underwear. Sporty gear has come

into fashion now. The classic

Tom, Tomofin, Leatherman image

that was so important when we

first opened, that's moved on

now. That's very much moved on.

We had the option to either just

not move with the times, and get

left behind and close, or move

with the times and adapt, which

is what we've done. The younger

people have got different

fetishes now. The clubs had to

embrace naked sex, underwear,

sports gear and all these other

things that we had no concept of

when we started. The American

jock images come over heavily,

and I think that's where the

sportswear comes from. I like

sportswear because you've got

the colours you can play with,

you've got the fabrics. There's

lots of technical fabrics that

are coming out at the moment,

which are always fun. It's a

little more fashion-y, and it

feels younger. I guess it comes

down from the whole Abercrombie

and Fitch ideology. I think also

it's financially cheaper to wear

sportswear. Not always, depends

on the brand you're wearing, but

for someone who is, say, 26, and

is at college or university, and

doesn't have the income to be

able to spend £1,000 on a full

leather outfit, to go into a

sportswear shop and pick up a

vest and football shorts and

football socks, and come out and

only spend £10 and still be

allowed to come in, I think

there's economic value to it as

well, which a lot of the younger

people have picked up. Because

when I first started doing the

leather scene, you had to wear

leather. No sportswear was

allowed, not even jeans, unless

they were under chaps. I see at

one point, at some point,

probably have to have diaper

parties, because that's what a

lot of the younger guys are

wanting to do. It's just new,

new finish, and I think that's

brilliant. The older guys, if

they don't like it, then they'll

stop coming, and they have. It's

a generational thing,

generational thing. Just move

on, and we all have to move on.

I remember going out when I was

in my twenties in leather and

rubber, walking the streets, and

gay guys would go, you're weird.

Twenty years later, suddenly

they're going, come into my gay

club, come in. And I'm like,

fuck. Suddenly all these gay

guys are getting piercings and

tattoos. Before that, I was

never allowed to go into clubs.

Fifteen or twenty years ago in

gay bars, A, you had the law

that it would be unthinkable of

having, for example, naked

events in public spaces. The law

has changed, and it's now much

more common. If you look

everywhere around Europe, more

and more bars, or the surviving

bars, are doing one-off naked

parties. Ten years ago, you used

to get a single naked guy at a

fetish club event, and he'd

appear for a little space of

time, and then he'd disappear

again. You'd get him here in the

hoisted, he'd run around with a

chain around his head, and he'd

be completely naked, didn't he?

And it would be like everyone

was shocked, even in our

community, even on the fetish

scene, even us, dressed up to

the nines in all sorts of good

-as-nose warps, that nudity was

a bit of a shock. Whatever goes

on outside those two main doors

doesn't mean anything when

you're inside here, because you

can be in here, and you can fist

each other, and you can be in a

place where that is considered

normal. And I guess when I was

growing up, being into this kind

of sexual play was considered by

a lot of my friends and a lot of

my peers as not normal. And they

didn't understand that. They

didn't get why I'd want to go

and have promiscuous sex with

somebody, because they're so

dictated to by the

heteronormative, that you have

to go to school, find a partner,

get married, get a house, get a

dog, get children, get a car,

have the white picket fence, put

your kids through college, blah,

blah, blah, the heteronormative.

It's just, it's kind of, you

don't need that here. You can be

yourself within the fetish

space, and you can let go. I'm

not replacing something here.

This is my lifestyle. This is

where I meet my mates, and I

have a good time, and I have a

good sex as well. And I'm not

waiting for something else to

happen. And I think that's quite

important points to make. It's

about personal pursuit of

happiness. We are witnessing,

sadly, an increasing quest for

respectability within the LGBT

community, particularly with the

push for same-sex marriage.

Although I support that

campaign, I'm also quite

disturbed that there is an

increasing homogenisation,

conformity, and assimilationism

within LGBT communities and

cultures. There's the idea

that's increasingly current that

we have to be good gays,

respectable gays, the right kind

of gays, if we're to win our

freedom. And to me, we should

win our freedom because we are

human beings. All human beings

deserve human rights. Pure and

simple. When I clean the sling,

so I'm drinking a cup of tea, I

usually have alcohol in my hand,

but it's the first time ever

you'll see me drinking a cup of

tea.

Which thing would be the worst?

Balcony. I'll do my sling. I

suddenly get some say about the

sling ones, mine, that's

comfortable. I've got it fixed.

I blew a fuse when it broke.

These slings do get hammered a

lot. You see?

Who knows how they can put stuff

upside down on these slings?

Oof. I go through hundreds and

hundreds of these a week. I

think that if they're really

messy, then I know that

somebody's had a good time. And

that, really good time, and

that, you know what I'm saying?

It just makes me laugh. It does

make me laugh. I think if this

sling could talk, you're very

interested. And the amount of

DNA I get put on these slings

will probably make a human being

out of it. This sling's not

quite bad for a change. On a

Friday night and Saturday night,

on these floors, it could be

like an ice rink. You can't just

sling your gold in. But I've got

to show you something else what

I have to do. And you'll laugh.

I have 2000 safety regulations.

It's hilarious in here. And

that, when the clubs are open,

once I've cleaned it, I check

all of the beads, like the

hooks, what's up there, make

sure they haven't come out.

You've got to laugh at this, and

I'll probably get throttled.

I've got to literally lie there

in the sling and make sure it's

the right height and the

right... make sure none of the

straps are in the wrong place,

you see? I've got to test

everything in this place. It's

part of the job. I'm praying to

God that all the tests have fun

in here. You know what I'm

saying? I always pray to God

that they come in, get what they

want, and leave a nice smile on

their face. I am one of the

characters of the club as well.

You probably got told that

before you met me. I'm one of

the characters. I know I am a

character in here. Some of the

customers call me the local bike

and tramp. Just as I got caught

having sex with a 75-year-old

one day in the club, I felt

sorry for him. I went, here's

the game, man. You've got needs.

And I gave him what he wanted.

And you know, I was in and he

left happy. The hoist was this

glorious, irreverent,

sacrilegious queer space for

perverts, deviants, faggots,

dissidents. The people who

didn't fit in to the nice,

squeaky clean image that so many

gay people wanted to cultivate.

It was the place for the sexual

outlaw. I wouldn't say the hoist

has changed. The hoist has

always been here. The hoist is

one of those kind of amazing,

comfortable places that you

would go into. Sneaky, sexy,

dirty wee hole. But Fox Hall has

changed. Gentrification, we've

got the American Embassy up the

road. People are moving in. This

area of London was probably the

last area in Zone 1, the central

area, that really started to be

developed. It's become very,

very popular. They've started

building a lot of flats.

Supermarkets have been moving

in. So it's not the slightly run

-down, cheap area now. Gay

places in Box Hill, I think, are

going to close one by one once

all this new regeneration takes

place. And I think it'll be

time's up for the hoist. Because

of the gentrification, it's like

everywhere else. It's pushing

out the people from the outside,

the outer fringes, the dirty wee

people. And gentrification

generally kills an area. You get

middle-class people in that are

wanting to do what they want

with their expensive houses. And

anybody that's arty or left-wing

or whatever, will be pushed to

the fringes. And that's killing

the character of towns, not just

here in London, not just in Box

Hill, but everywhere in Britain.

And the same in the States as

well. The older I get, the more

I think about places and people

that have disappeared. You think

they're going to be around

forever, but you should take

advantage of them while you can.

What would happen if there

wasn't here? With the hoist?

Yeah. Sadly, I think there would

be a large group of people that

would miss it. But I think to

the rest of the mainstream gays,

I don't think they would notice.

I'd be very sad indeed. I think

yet another little bit of gay

London has gone. It's lasted a

whole lot longer than even I

would possibly imagine.

I always think that this club is

in the hearts of the gay

community in London and

worldwide, I think. Because

nothing like it anywhere else in

the world would have been told.

Sex never goes away, though,

does it? There's always the

urge.

We shouldn't forget that in

Berlin there were hundreds of

bars in the 1920s.

I hope that we will never see a

situation where bars close. But

in Paris, the two best-known

bars, the Keller and the Glove,

have closed within the last

couple of years and quite

abruptly. They haven't really

been replaced by anything of the

same quality.

So just be aware that liberty is

something that is very precious.

And stand up for your rights,

fight for what you have, don't

take it all for granted.

That'll do.

I hate wearing gloves. I hate

wearing them. I'm an old gay guy

who's used to just using the

hand. I hate wearing gloves. I

hate wearing them.

These are a bit of a matter of

life. This is very popular on

the weekend, the bath area. They

call it the swimming pool.

Water's pissing and whatever

else I want to do. I can only

smell what they're being in.

Yeah, you get used to it.

Come on, stay up, you bitch. I'm

going to get some blood

cellotape. These tubes are

mostly for decoration. People

can improvise in here. You know

what I'm saying? Some people

stack them on top of each other.

Other people like sitting them

and get stuck early. Especially

with the rubber on, it's

normally hilarious. Hold on,

I'll pull you out. Breathe out

and eventually pop. Or you find

the dildos in here. Or booklets

and all sorts. And here,

literally, you find all sorts.

Usually it's nipple rings you

find in here. Or cock rings,

cocks things like that. Jock

straps, underwear, dildos,

cucumbers. All sorts, trust me.

What makes me laugh is, how can

you lose your jock strap? How

the hell can you lose your jock

strap? That light's not in the

right place. Ouch. Not touching

me unless I'm touching a hot

light. Look, it's fine here. Can

hold my weight. Yeah, that's

right.