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- We took an Uber.
- Uber, honey.

And he was really kind.

Yeah, he thought we were funny,
because we are.

- How you feeling?
- I feel good.

I'm excited to see my second showing
of this to see how it's different.

I know. Sorry I couldn't make
the other one.

You're in school, that's okay.
So you're free?

Yeah, I'm free.

Yeah, the ponytail feels like
a last show kind of moment.

- You've been ponytailing, okay?
- You have, I know.

- Your braid on Kimmel this morning?
- Did you see that?

- It was so cute.
- Yeah?

- Yeah.
- Thanks! I'm glad you guys approve.

We do.
We approve.

- I miss you guys.
I know. We missed you!

But we have a full two weeks
of actual time together.

See, I'm not gonna ask for more.

- I was gonna say--
- We were saying that.

Only because you
called us both separately.

And we were like, "Why is she calling?
Like, we don't have too many dinners

to run out of things to say."

Three-and-a-half hours in the car.

Wow!

I could've flown from here to Chicago.

It's true. You could
go back to Chicago sometime soon.

Could have gone back to Chicago, unbelievable.

- So we will--
- Hi, there.

- Hello, welcome.
- This is Rita.

- She will be our stage manager...
- Hey, Rita.

- ...getting us everywhere.
- Stage manager. Hey.

- It's the last show, you guys.
I know.

She's good. Want these on here?
All right.

Well done.

Are you ready to see Michelle Obama?
Make some noise!

- Come on! Here we go!

Last night!

- Last night. We're gon' make it right.
- In LA.

- It's gon' be real bright.
- On the last night.

Two, three!

I am becoming!

Four years ago when I released
my memoir Becoming,

I traveled across the country
and around the world,

meeting so many incredible people,
including some of you.

The tour was one of
the best experiences of my life.

But then, almost in an instant,
everything changed.

The world locked down
and closed in.

We were torn apart from one another.

At the same time, we were dealing
with other deeply personal challenges.

A long past due reckoning
with race in America.

All of this has left us shaken
and angry,

despondent and unseen,

and perhaps
more than anything else, alone.

How did we get here?

How have we changed?

And most importantly,
how can we regain some stability?

These are the questions
I've been pondering

in my new book and podcast.

And I'm sure a lot of you have too.

And that's why we're here tonight,
together again.

Because even when the world
feels so dark,

we're all trying to protect, kindle,
and share the light we carry.

Believe me, I don't have
all the answers.

Far from it.
But I do have my story.

And you do too.

And to help us begin
to weave those stories together,

I'm thrilled to have my dear friend here
to illuminate a path forward.

Please give a warm welcome
to the one and only

-Oprah Winfrey!

Hello, LA!

Hello!

Hello, LA!

Hello, LA up there!

Hello, LA out there!

So good to see you, LA!

Wow!

Oh, my goodness.

So, how fantastic that you're out here

on a Tuesday night?

For the last night
of The Light We Carry tour!

Look at you!

Okay. So I know all of you who have been,
at some point in your life,

to an event where the host

is standing there before you and says,

"We have our guest this evening
who needs no introduction,"

and then they spend
the next 20 minutes...

telling you everything that person did
since they was born.

I'm not gon' do that.

I'm not gon' do that.

'Cause I know you already know
who's here.

I know 'cause you went through the 101
and the 405 and the 5...

and the 10...

I came down on the 101,
took three-and-a-half hours.

I'm here for the same reason you are.

To get some of that light
she's carrying!

So the woman who needs
no introduction, for real.

Our forever First Lady,

Michelle Obama!

Michelle Obama!

Oprah Winfrey!

- Look at this.
- Look at LA!

YouTube Theater!

Final night!

Wow!

Oh, my goodness!

LA!

- Woo!
- Woo!

Now, this is a way to end a tour.

- This is--
- I think this is it.

Wow.

I have to say, it's a Tuesday night...

- It's Tuesday night!
- It's not even...

It's not even the middle of the week
and the people came

- to see you.
- Oh, my goodness.

Well...

I think it was a pretty big added bonus

that we got Miss Oprah Winfrey here, too.

I have to just say this,
every other moderator

was so glad that they weren't
following you.

- So...
- Well...

It's so interesting, because...

I've been watching you on Instagram

and people have been sending me,
"Oh, my gosh,

you should see what Conan did,
what Tracee Ellis Ross did,

what Gayle did."
"Did you see Tyler? Did you see Ellen?"

And so I was feeling kind of like,
"Oh, my God..."

Was your fearful mind kicking in?

- My fearful mind!
- See? Even Oprah Winfrey has

- a fearful mind.
- A fearful mind!

- You know?
- Actually--

You know what happened?
I thought,

"Okay, I'm going to go back
to the toolbox..."

Exactly. You know how to do this.

-"I know how to do an interview."
- I know how to do an interview!

- I'm not scurred of the people.
Right!

- So here we are.
- Yes. Thank you for being here,

- my dear, dear friend.
- Thank you. I love you so much.

- I love you too.
- I appreciate you so much.

- Same. Back at you.
- What you stand for.

So this is a final night, you all,
of a six-city tour

that evolved from a lockdown.

- Oh, yeah.
- So, you came out on the other side

and brought us The Light We Carry.
Championing of The Light We Carry.

But before you got to the other side,

I want to know where were you
and what was going on

when you first realized
this here is serious,

- and we not going nowhere?
- Yeah, yeah.

You know, interestingly enough,
I was on the road.

The tour had just finished, we took
some time off, and I was on the road

doing a couple of speaking engagements.

And I was in Las Vegas because
I also coupled those engagements

with a celebration with my team

to thank them for the hard work
they had done on the tour.

- So this is March 2020.
- This is March.

And there was still buzz about COVID
in the air, but,

you know, it's sort of back and forth,
"What is this?" So we're in Las Vegas,

and that's when there was a slow wave
of cancellations.

You remember that ripple effect?
Because people didn't know what to do.

- Correct.
- Companies were making

split decisions
and so we're stuck in Vegas

watching the world slowly turn off.
That's what it felt like.

You know? Events started being canceled.
And we're in Vegas.

Slowly, the casinos started to empty out.

The streets in Las Vegas started to empty.

It felt like we were in a ghost town.

- Did you think you needed to get home?
- Oh, yeah, yeah.

We were trying to be responsible
and wait until the last event canceled.

- Right.
- And then finally, they canceled it,

we got back on the plane, got home.

So that felt eerie,
being out there on the road

when slowly, the world was shutting off.

- Well, we really weren't sure.
- We weren't sure about anything.

- Everybody was just using hand sanitizer.
- That's right.

- Washing off their groceries.
- Yeah.

- Washing off the groceries, yes.
- With soap. Yeah.

It was that phase, yes.

And then, I was worried about the girls
because they were in--

still at school, and I'm thinking,
"My babies are out there with the COVID!"

And I was hoping that the universities
were gonna be responsible.

And then finally, the decision was made
that they were coming home,

but then I was thinking, "Oh, my God,
they're coming to my house?"

I was thinking, "They're going through
airports and sitting on airplanes,"

so Barack and I cautioned them
to wear masks.

And, when they got home,

I made them stay in the garage

and open all their stuff up.

I was going to make them stay out there.

I told them to take off
their travel clothes.

We didn't know what was going on.

My husband thought I was being
a little irrational,

but I was like, "We're trying to--"
I-- We didn't know!

That's not irrational, honey.
Stedman was in the guesthouse for 14 days.

I remember that!

That was during the 14-day period.

See now, Malia and Sasha,
at least I let you come in the house.

But we were preparing to create
a COVID-safe community,

and since they had traveled,
we were kind of holding our breath

making sure they didn't bring
any virus home.

So we didn't know how long to wait,
what was the incubation period.

Were you actually afraid of getting COVID
that first year before the vaccines

- were available?
- It's interesting.

I think it helped that we lived
with a former president...

- That might be helpful.
- ...who...

Not just any president, but a president
who reads and believes in science.

Who had...

steered the country through
several pandemics.

Remember Ebola?

I think one case reported in the U.S.

That was my husband.

Brought us back from the brink
of depression,

everybody forgets that, how--
what bad shape we were in.

So we were living with
what we call the fact guy.

He knew enough to know what this was.

So it was scary, but we had information.

- What was scary--
- So you were comfortably afraid.

We were comfortably afraid.
What was scary--

As you talk about in the book,
being comfortably afraid.

- I was downright scurred.
- Yeah, but what scared me, Oprah,

was watching the confusion...

- Yes.
- ...in the world.

The mixed messages,
the inconsistency,

the lack of leadership,
the lack of a plan,

you know, watching people
not take this seriously.

People treating the pandemic
like it was an extended vacation.

People arguing about wearing masks,

watching kids partying
on the beach in Florida.

- Remember? Yes.
- That was scary

because I'm thinking all those kids
are gonna go home

to a grandparent or somebody
with an autoimmune disease,

and it is going to be catastrophic.

That was the thing that scared me.
Watching disinformation.

That's scary.

Watching people attack
scientists and the experts.

That was the frightening part
of it for me.

Watching the world not deal
with this well.

Listen, I ate my way
through the pandemic.

- And we would have Taco Tuesday--
- We had Taco Tuesday!

- We loved Taco Tuesday.
- We loved Taco Tuesday,

- but Tuesday kept coming around so fast.
- Right, you know?

-"It's Tuesday again?"
- Does that happen at your house

- where, "It's Tuesday again?"
- Again?

Oh, my gosh. I was like what we now need
to do Taco Tuesday every other Tuesday,

because it's happening so fast, and days
would pass where I would be like,

"Did I do anything?
Did I accomplish anything?"

And then you come out on the other side,
you have written a book.

You have written a book.

So you weren't that way at first, right?

You didn't just say, "I am now
going to take all of the personal problems

that I have had, Barack,

and I'm going to take that energy

and I'm going to allow it to be a beacon
for the lights

that we all carry."

- It didn't happen like that.
- It didn't happen like that. Yes.

Well, the book came out of,
like you-- people ask

for advice all the time. You know?

They're always asking me
how have I done this?

"How'd you get here?"
"How do you overcome your fear?"

"How do you find your voice?"
"How do you feel seen when,

you know, you've been raised
to not see yourself in the world?"

And so, I'd already been grappling
with these questions, thinking,

"Well, when I get an opportunity
to talk to kids,"

which I do occasionally, I still spend
a lot of time talking to kids,

I try to answer those questions,

but I can only connect with so many kids,
I'm thinking,

"They're looking for guidance,
they're looking for a voice."

So, I started shaping the book
even before the pandemic,

but I also found that I was spiraling down
in a depression,

you know, with the loop in my head,

my fearful mind watching
the world unravel,

and I needed to find my own hope.

I felt like I was losing a little bit
of my own light.

And I had to kind of search
my own toolbox

for ways to come out of that so that
I could answer those questions

and continue to be of service,

because when you get
to those low emotional places,

it's hard to find your light.

It's hard to think
that sharing it will even matter.

Were you looking at the world the way
we were all looking at the world?

From that fearful space?
Because so much was happening

- and we had seen so many lies...
- Yeah.

- ...that had been denied...
- Yeah.

...by people who we thought
should have been reasonable,

that I think a lot of us started to think,

"Well, it doesn't matter.
You know, Charlottesville,

very fine people on both sides."
That nothing is going to change.

- Then we saw fear being weaponized.
- Yeah.

And when you saw fear
being weaponized

- by former president, not your husband...
- Yes.

...did that make you fearful
or did that make you angry?

Both.

It made me afraid. It made me angry.
It was disappointing.

It was disappointing that, you know,
after we tried so hard

to set such a high bar, where we tried
so hard to get everything right,

to lead with hope, to promote kindness
and compassion and empathy,

that...

- the world chose either affirmatively--

they chose it or they were complacent
and didn't vote.

Which hurt probably even more,
because the people who didn't vote,

a lot of those people were the people
who voted for us.

So, in a way, I felt a little abandoned,
you know?

It's like, "Did it really matter,
what we did? Does it?"

You know? And that's the dark part
of those times.

But-- no, I-- and--

That was at that time, you know?

And we-- And I share it because
we all go through those moments, you know?

It's like, we all can't be
the beacons of hope all the time.

And I'm more of a cynic
than my husband

who just has a light
that is always hopeful.

And I am so lucky to live
in the house with him

because he keeps me focused
on the truth.

But yes, the weaponization of fear
is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

You know, you look over any atrocity
that has happened

in the course of human history,

slavery, The Holocaust, any war,

any misogyny, any hate crime,
or homophobia,

it's all based in fear, greed,
and a quest for power.

And so, it is a dangerous thing.

It is a dangerous thing to watch

how life is influenced by that fear.

It determines who gets an education,

who gets justice, you know?

Oftentimes, it's the difference between
a slap on the hand

and a knee on the neck.

So it's got to be something
that we are mindful of

and that we learn how to decode it
for ourselves

so that leaders cannot use our fear
against us to turn on one another.

It's a dangerous proposition.

And it's also, as you know, Oprah,
as someone who has a huge platform,

has had it for a long time,

you know how easy it would be
if you chose

to use your platform in a negative light.

But why don't you?

Why? After all those years,
you had a TV show,

you could have gotten people whipped up
about a whole lot of stuff,

but you chose not to.
Why was that, pray tell?

Yes, and when you see
other people using it

for such a disadvantage,

it's depressing, I think a lot of people
were depressed and also numbed by it.

And you say that by the time you ordered
those knitting needles online,

- that you had reached a really low place.
- Yeah, yeah.

And so, I mean, I don't know how
knitting's gon' bring you out of that,

- but okay.
- I know, I know.

Well, knitting is a metaphor.

But I did learn how to knit.

Didn't I knit you something?

- Oh, I knit-- That was Gayle.
- No, you did-- That was Gayle.

Gayle's grandson.

- You knitted a lovely, beautiful...
- Yeah, well... You know, I--

I made that sweater!

- I made that sweater!
- Sweater.

- You made that sweater!
- There's that cute little baby.

Yes. Luca.

What I got from knitting,

it was more meditative,

it served to quiet my mind

in a way that I needed,
you know, in that way.

That's kind of what faith does for you.

You know? It shuts your brain off.

See, we try to think our way
out of so much.

And our mind, we don't have
much control over it.

That's why you give it up, you know?

You got to give it up
to something bigger than you.

But what I learned through that,
what I was able to unravel,

was like, when we're in these times
where the problem seems so big

and insurmountable,

we really have to focus
on what we can control.

You know? That's really all we can do,
is tend to the knitting in our lap.

And guess what? That's enough.

I mean, we live in a world
where bigger always is better,

where we're always being busy.

We're trying to tackle everything
in a big way.

Our kids are subjected to that.

When I get letters from young people,
they're trying to, at 15,

"I gotta save the world.
I'm gonna fix my neighborhood."

And my whole thing is you don't have
the power or the leverage to do that yet.

You need to focus on your knitting,

and if you're 12 or 15,
your knitting is your homework,

it's finishing school.

And the reason-- the lesson
that came out of that for me is that,

start with the thing that is small
that you can control.

- That's right.
- Control what you can.

That's right.

You know, the one theme

that lifts from the pages
of The Light We Carry for me

is that you were raised well.

- I was lucky.
- You were raised well.

- I was blessed.
- My goodness, did you have incredible,

- stellar, powerful parents.
- Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Who cared about you
and had an open mind.

And I think
what's really wonderful is that

you give-- devote a whole section,
chapter to "Meet my mom,"

and, and some of her great gems
for raising children,

one of my favorite, which is,
"Parent the child you've got."

- Yes, indeed.
- That's great.

But what I was left with,
this feeling that,

wow, I wish we all
could have met your father.

Yeah.

I wish we all could have met him

because I think the message
that he gave you as a young girl,

"Nobody can make you feel bad
about yourself

- if you feel good about yourself..."
- That's right.

- ...is the underlying theme of this book.
- Yeah.

- Yeah.
- Yes.

At the very end of the day,

we cannot control what other people
think, say, or do.

We just can't do it.

Our light can't be dependent
on somebody else, right?

Because they may not have it to give.

My father was just a living life lesson
for me, you know,

because he was a Black man, working class,

probably poor, although we didn't feel
like we were poor,

you know, who had MS

and struggled throughout his life
with the disability.

And we watched his body deteriorate,

and I opened with the story of his cane
because that was an important tool.

You know? Instead of giving up on life,

he could have, you know, chucked it all
and started collecting disability

and never worked a day in his life.

But instead he chose to use
whatever tool he needed.

First, it was a cane,
and when that stopped working,

he switched those out for two crutches.

And then when that stopped working
later on in life,

he needed more assistance.

He replaced that with a walker.

Eventually, he needed a motorized cart.

All throughout our life.
But he never stopped.

He never blamed anyone,

he never let his-- the disappointment
that must-- he must have felt,

it never burned him up.

It didn't turn him negative, you know?

He would have falls,

I don't know whether he fell
when he was on his way to work,

but he would fall at home,
catch his foot on the rug.

And to see your father fall to the ground,

it exposed all of our vulnerabilities.

It was frightening,

but my dad did his best to get up quick
and laugh it off

because laughter was a tool as well.

But what I learned from him,
as I say in the book,

"You fall, you get up, you keep moving."

So if he could find a light
in all that he was going through,

and he could be a light for others,

because he was like the father of many
who didn't have them,

in my family, in my community.

He saw his own light,
and he taught me that that's my job,

to see my own light, you know?

Yeah. That's why I love that
as the reigning theme of the book,

"Nobody can make you feel bad
about yourself if you feel good."

And what you're saying
in The Light We Carry

is that it's your job to do the work
to make yourself feel good.

- That's your responsibility.
- That's right.

- That always made me feel better.

It was like my father was showing me
that I had control over my life.

- Yes.
- I had control over my feelings.

I didn't have to count on somebody
being nice to me,

somebody being fair to me.

We knew life was unfair.

So when I think of my father,
I, you know, anytime I feel self-pity,

I feel sorry for myself, you know,
I feel like it's somebody else's fault,

I think about my father,
and that keeps me focused, and straight,

and clear-headed, and grateful,

in ways that I just,
it-- it's a gift.

Can you finish this sentence?
"I still hear my father's voice when..."

Whenever.

I mean, it's as deep as like, whenever.

His voice is ringing through my head.

His voice was, you know, with me
on my first day at Princeton, you know,

settling myself
into this bastion of elitism.

You know? He was with me
on my first day at my law firm.

And even after he died,

he still was there walking me
down the aisle

because he helped model for me
the man I should have.

So I was able to see Barack.

I was able to see him,
see past all the external stuff,

and the external stuff
was really pretty good ladies, but...

but I could see what was important
to look for in a man.

You know? He's with me now,
he is with me on this stage.

He is what I tap into when I'm trying
to speak some truth to people

and show my authenticity
and my vulnerability.

He is there whenever.

I love that you said that he helped you
in many ways

to be able to see what you needed to see
in Barack Obama.

Can we talk about
your husband for a minute?

- Oh, yes, please. Yes, please.
- Okay.

People have tried

to capture your love story.

- Oh, there he goes.
- They've tried to capture the love story.

They made a movie,
the drama movie,

they did the series on the First Lady.

They did--
trying, but they can't get it!

- Nah.
- They cannot get it.

But you summed it up so completely
in just one sentence

that was so powerful that when I read it,

it actually stopped me
and made my eyes water.

You remember what the sentence was
in the book?

- No, what was it?

Well, I don't know what sentence
made you weep.

Okay, the sentence--

You were talking about you've lived
many places.

- And... "And Barack is my home!"
- Oh, and Barack is my home.

- Yes.
-"Barack is my home."

- Barack is my home.
-"Barack is my home."

Yes, he is.

Now, go home and see
if you can ask yourself that question.

About the person you with.

You so silly.

Are they your home?

And I appreciate
how you break it down to us

that first trip to Hawaii.

Because when you first arrived in Hawaii,
you were looking for--

and I understand why,
you a working woman

and had never been to Hawaii,

so you looking for the Hawaii
in Hawaii Five-O.

Those of you who remember that show.

- Mai tais and sunsets on the beach.
- Mai tais and honeymoon...

and honeymoon suites.

But instead...

Yeah, instead, it was a trip home
to visit his family.

That's where he was from.

He wasn't going back
to some island vacation,

he was going back to be with his people.

But I was young
and I was-- it was cold in Chicago

and I thought,
"I'm going to Hawaii with my man."

"It's gonna be so romantic."

And then we landed and we went straight
to Toot and Gramps' apartment.

No ocean.

It was a high-rise building,
go up to the tenth floor,

you know, walk in.
Looks like my grandparents' house.

Might as well be on south side of Chicago,
which was a wonderful thing.

- Right?
- Yes.

To know that I was familiar
with his family, right?

Then we cuddle up. What's on the TV?

60 Minutes.

And, you know,
they-- they pull out some TV trays

and I think we probably had
tuna sandwiches with sweet pickles.

I was like, "Yes, I do like this."

But then some days,
you would go to the beach.

And then I love the moment where he says,

-"Okay, gotta go."
-"We're going back to Toot and Gramps'."

-"We're going back to the house."
- Like, "Aw," you know.

So I was young and silly
and I started feeling like,

"I don't know if I like this.
It's not as romantic as I thought."

Although, I didn't act like that.

So my mother knows I did not act
like some little spoiled person.

- I was very--
- But you are thinking,

-"Where is the Hawaii from Hawaii-Five-O?"
- Yeah. Where is--

Right. Exactly.

But I conclude the story
by saying that, you know,

what Barack was showing me
was the real of him.

And sometimes as people looking
for partners,

we're looking for what we think
are mai tais and sunsets,

and what we need is somebody
who respects and loves their family

- and is going to show up for them...
- And showing you that.

- ...again and again.
- That's what they're showing you.

And Barack valued the time
that he had with his family.

It was nice to go to the beach,

but being there for his mother
and his grandmother, his little sister,

helping them work through their stuff,
he was the rock of their family.

And let me just tell you,
he always shows up

for me and the girls in that same way.

He is present and there when we need him.

And that's what
he was showing me in Hawaii

when I was trying to get to the beach.

I think what we also appreciate

in both Becoming
and also in The Light We Carry

is how you are so candid
about your relationship,

about your life, and how everything
is not perfect.

You say it took some time
and a lot of practice

for you all to work through
your disagreements.

- So, what's your style and his style?
- Yeah.

You know, I've said this to him,
I've said this before,

one of the things that's different
in how we show love is that

because his family lived far away
and traveled a lot,

he had to learn to love at a distance,
you know?

And that means there are more words said,
more love exchanged,

more physical, you know...

- The "I love you" and all that.
- Yeah, "I love you. I love you."

-"Love you too. Love you too." You know?
- Yeah.

I grew up where everybody, like,

within eight blocks of each other,
you know,

all my aunts and uncles,
and great uncles and cousins

and, you know,
everybody celebrated birthdays.

So we were with each other every weekend,

twice a week, and, "Happy birthday
to you." That's what we did.

We were always together,
so it was like, "Bye.

I don't have to tell you I love you 'cause
I'm gonna see you Saturday, right?"

So love for me was showing up, you know,
it was like,

"Yeah, yeah, stop kissing me,
just do the laundry."

And we also are temperamentally different.
You know?

Guess what I am?
Kind of hot-headed, you know?

Talkative, easy to get mad.

It's like, "What?"
Barack wants to talk rationally.

And I'm like, "Rational?
Ration-- Don't come to me with sense.

- I'm angry.

Don't come to me
with your three bullet points.

You better get out of here
and let me cool down."

I don't wanna hear none of that reason.

Okay. So how long--
What's the cooling off period for you?

It's definitely, like,
what he thought was like,

"Okay, that was five minutes.
Are you ready to talk?"

It's like, "That's not enough!"

It's time. It could be hours.

Sometimes it could be days
where I just don't--

I just don't want to talk to you
right now.

But we had to learn--

But here's the thing,
we had to learn how to compromise.

I have to learn that I can't pop off
on him, you know?

And also, he's got to give me
space to calm down.

That-- That is a lesson.

We're still-- We're still practicing that,
but I share it

because I see so many young couples

who don't know what real marriage is.

You know?
They spend more time, you know,

picking out the third dress
for the wedding and reception

and the wish board
of the flowers they want,

and, you know,
planning the third bachelorette thing.

I mean, y'all spend
way too much money on weddings.

- Way too much.

- And--
- Yeah, what you want is big anniversaries.

- You want big, huge anniversaries, right?
- You want big anniversaries.

But we have to be honest with people,

I believe, more of us have to be honest
about the work

that it takes to build a life
with another person.

It-- To me, it doesn't seem, like,
it's that controversial, you know?

- I mean--
- What's controversial

is somebody of your stature
being dishonest about it.

That's exactly right.

You know? It's like all,
"hashtag relationship goals,"

and I'm like,
"I was mad at him in that picture."

Not only that...

So you told Gayle during the tour
in Philadelphia,

which was just a couple of weeks ago,
that in 30 years of marriage,

ten of them, you couldn't stand
your husband.

- Exactly.
- And then...

You know, and people are like,
"Oh, my God!"

Yes. Social media went crazy, like...

- I was like, "It's been 30 years."
- Look at Michelle Obama keeping it real.

- Keeping it real.
- Exactly.

That's because social media
is anything but real, you know?

They wouldn't know real social media
if it kicked them in the face.

Why do you think, though,
that struck such a nerve?

- Like, when you said 30 years--
- Well, because young people can't imagine

being unhappy for a minute,
let alone for ten years.

It's like, "I can't--
I deserve to be happy."

And it's like, "Who said that?
Where'd you get that from?"

I was never raised that happy--,
my personal happiness,

and my feelings in my household.
It was like, "You better sit down."

"I don't care what you talking about."

But, you know, the point being is that
you are gonna hit on some hard times.

Because if you're married for 30 years,
and you have ten bad ones,

I would take those odds, you know?

But I also said they happen to coincide
with the birth of the children.

Those two, they ruined all the love.

They just sucked it out of the house.

They came in with their cuteness
and their needing to eat all the time

and their inability to communicate
and you can't be mad at them.

I mean, they're cute.
They're your babies.

So who else is in the household
that I can, "Oh, it's you!"

"It's your fault, Barack Obama."

So, and then they, you know,
they grow up and they leave the nest

and it's like, "Oh, there you are."

"That's my boo. I remember you."

That's about ten years, you know?

- So, look--
- So, what for you is romantic now?

- What do you consider romantic?
- Romantic is...

I love when my husband
plans something, right?

Because it is-- it is hard to plan

when you are the president
or the former president, right?

So if he can surprise me with a--

And he gets so pleased with himself
when he pulls something off, right?

And our 30th anniversary was probably

the latest romantic thing that he did

because he recreated our honeymoon,

which was driving along the Pacific Coast
when we were first married.

We started in San Francisco, rented a car,
drove all the way down through Big Sur,

stopped and saw the Redwoods
and went through Santa Barbara,

and then ended in LA,
and it was just the two of us.

And he created that.

Now, it wasn't just the two of us
because we were in a motorcade,

and we had our agents
and three cars behind.

In that shot, there are like 12 people
in the back, you know, trying to hide.

It's changed, but everyone was so excited.

All of his agents were like,
"You-- You-- We're going on a walk next."

And it's like-- And they were trying to--
they were trying to lay back,

and all our aids.
We travel with a crowd, you know?

- But he planned it.
- It was romantic.

It was very romantic.
It was very, very sweet.

- And he didn't golf, not once.
- Okay. At all?

Okay. So in Becoming,
you told us so much about, you know,

the years when he was away,
and those years,

I think, when you were feeling badly
in the relationship, in the marriage.

Has it changed now that he's home?

Where the-- all the wives are like, "Mmm."

Has it changed?

- Yeah.
- Is he a different kind of husband now

than he was in all those years
with all the pressure?

Well, you know what?

No, I think he's been pretty consistent,
you know?

I've grown, I've changed.

I've learned that, you know,
over these years that I, you know,

I have to make me happy, you know?

It goes back to the-- the lessons
from my father.

- He's not responsible for my happiness.

He loves me, he cares about me,

but most of my unhappiness
had to do with choices I was making,

like I had to be the perfect mother.

I had to do everything right.

I had to hold down a job
and make sure that the--

I was holding myself to a standard
that was stressful for me.

- And also impossible.
- And absolutely impossible.

Because you can have it all,
perhaps, but you can't have it all--

At the same time.

- Let us say that again.
- You can-- You say it.

You can have it all,
but not at the same time.

You really can't.
You know, that whole--

No, it is impossible,

especially if you want to be
a good parent,

you know, and spend
any time with your kids.

It's a tough balancing act.

I really appreciated in The Light We Carry

when you talked about how you recognized
and Barack recognized

that you couldn't be everything
for each other,

and that's why your kitchen table
of friends is so important,

and as you say, has helped
to take the pressure off of your marriage.

- Yeah. Absolutely.
- Tell us about that kitchen table.

You know-- All right.

I'm going to tell the story
of when you met my kitchen table.

- Yeah. Tell it, sure.
- Can I tell that story?

It's not in the book, but...

Oprah kindly hosted
my 50th birthday party.

- Was it my 50th?
- It was your 50th.

Not just your 50th-- Oh, see,
I wasn't going to tell that story.

- I didn't know I could tell that story.
- Okay.

So you said yes before you knew
I was talking about it.

No, I know you gon'-- I want you
to talk about what I was gonna--

I was gonna-- A moment ago,

say Barack Obama,
President of the United States,

- called me...
- Yeah, right.

to ask me would I host--

And at the end of the conversation,

he says, "Make sure you note
that I'm the one making this call."

"I'm the one that told you
to arrange all this."

"So I'm the one that made the call.
I didn't have an assistant call you."

So when you were telling that story,
I just thought,

-"Oh, that's why he said that."
- That's why he said that.

-"I'm the one that's making this call."
- That's right.

So we're coming to stay with you,
graciously hosting us,

you said, "Bring your friends,"
and I was like, "Okay."

And she's like, "How many people?"
And I said, "Well, it's like 12."

- Twelve.
- And you were like...

What'd you say? You were like,
"You don't have 12 good friends."

- I did.
- I was like, "I do, I do."

-"I'm not trying to stack the date!"
- Who has 12 good friends?

I do.

And-- And Oprah's like, "I got Gayle."

- And what I said was like--
- The only person

I know with 12 good friends
was Jesus and the disciples.

That's the only person I know.

- But then you met--
- And then one of them betrayed him.

Okay?

- But then you met my kitchen table.
- Yes.

And you saw that I collect and keep
my friends throughout life, you know.

So I got my roommate from college,

I've got my best friend from law school,

I've got the moms who, you know,
helped me in Chicago,

we were like a unit,
we raised our kids together.

Some of those kids are here tonight.

- You know, they are like my children.
- Yes.

I had a whole new set
of mom friends and women

in Washington, D.C.

who could understand that life,

a couple of who were married to people
in Barack's administration.

And when you're in that world,

you need someone who understands,
like, that plight.

They were my ride or dies.

So I tend to collect people
throughout life and keep them.

Because different people
bring different things to my life.

But the bottom line
is that I call it my kitchen table

because the kitchen table in our home
was always the place

where we felt safe, you know?

We'd come in as little kids
from the woes of the playground

and the, you know,
give and take of the neighborhood

and complaining about a teacher
or some unfairness

and you could always let it out
at the kitchen table.

You felt safe and seen.

It was probably the first table
where I felt seen by my mother and father

who loved to hear our stories
and our voices.

But you always got rejuvenated
at that table.

You know, you could let out the insults
and the slights

and yell and scream
and get that out your system

so that you could get yourself together

and go back out there
like you had some sense, you know?

So my kitchen table is that for me.

There are so many different aspects
to my life, you know?

I've had so many different facets,
from motherhood to professionalism,

and on and on and on,

that that table has just
gotten bigger and bigger.

This is a question, just occurred to me.

Did all of the friends--
So I met those 12, kitchen table--

But did all of your friends make the cut
once you went to the White House?

Nope.

- No, they did not.
- Because, you know what?

I remember having a conversation with you,

and we were talking about-- and you said,
"Lost oxygen, couldn't make the climb."

- Yep. Nope.
-"Lost oxygen, couldn't make the climb."

And I tell the story about friendship
because, you know, we--

It feels like we--

The studies are showing
that people have fewer friends than ever,

and we're reporting
these ridiculous rates of loneliness.

Loneliness, yes.

I think social media
has gotten us out of the habit.

I think our young people,
because of the pandemic,

they think they've got friends
on social media.

I remember Sasha's first account
with that, you know, when she was little,

and we let her have a--
whatever it was called,

and then she comes up but the--

Because we had everybody follow her,
agents, staff, you know.

It was like, you know,
if you gon' have this,

everybody's watching.
And then somebody came back and said,

"You know,
Sasha's got a thousand friends,"

and I was like, "Little girl,

you don't know a thousand people,"
you know?

But that's how young people--
It's early.

You think you got a thousand friends
and you're, you know, ten?

We've gotten out of that habit.

But we need people.

We need real contact.

We need connection
to keep us grounded and stable.

So for the friends
that didn't make the cut

- or couldn't-- who lost oxygen--
- Oh, yeah, we'll go back to...

- Yeah.
- ...who didn't make the cut.

I want to know
for the friends who didn't make it,

did you actually have to tell them that,
"Sorry," or did somebody else tell 'em?

There were different versions
for different people, right?

Depending upon what the issue was.

But here's the thing that I learned.

Stay open to friends,
be open to making new ones.

I want my girls to be this way

because I don't want them living
in the world afraid of opening up

and making friends, you know?

'Cause you got sense, you can trust,

you know when people,
how far they-- to take them,

but when they show you who they are,
you gotta...

- Believe them. Believe them.
- Gotta believe them, and then move on.

And some friends, you know, had foibles
that were fine for regular friends.

But once you--
we get into the White House,

it's like, "Oh, you--
Oh, you can't be that person...

- Up in here.
- ...and be up in here, you know?"

It's like, "We-- We got too much
at stake."

- Absolutely.
- You know?

And they weren't gon' be
my friends that messed up.

I mean, Barack might want to keep
some friends that--

but that, it was his presidency.

But my--
if my friends weren't acting right?

It was like "slow ghost."

You know, the "slow ghost"?

Where you don't like,
cut 'em off right away,

- but you just become less available?

- Slow ghost. Okay.
- Slow ghost.

I really appreciated how
in Becoming you talked about,

and you use this word,
the velocity of things coming at you

when you were in the White House.

And in The Light We Carry,

you talk about it being surreal.

- Yeah.
- There's a point where you say,

"We needed a pencil box for Sasha
and a ball gown for me,

and we needed a toothbrush holder,
and an economic rescue package."

- Yes.
-"That my days became a surreal mishmash

of the mundane and the extraordinary,"
is what you said.

I appreciated the moment
where you talked about

watching Sasha for
the first time with a playmate

and the-- how relieved you were
seeing that that was working out.

And then the playmate's mom
comes to pick her up,

secret service is like,
"Don't get out of the car."

Yeah.

And that mom ended up being
one of your kitchen table friends.

Absolutely.

I was more worried
about the girls settling in

and having a normal life,

and nothing spells normalcy
than having a playdate in your house,

even if it's the White House.

Having real friends and feeling like
a regular parent, you know?

Going to the parent-teacher conference

and, you know, Barack coached
the fourth grade Vipers,

a little girls basketball league.

He was the coach.

I know. I don't know
if I've told that story before.

He's written about it in his book,

but he was the parent coach
of her fourth-grade team.

- Were people freaking out?
- That was kind of surreal,

probably more so
for everybody else in the gym,

but he would start easing his way down,
because it was a parent coach team,

and he being a basketball freak
was very disturbed

by the fact that the little girls
weren't tying their shoes

and they were running no plays.

And he felt like
they were just squandering their skills...

- ...and it wasn't just Sasha on the team,

but it was also Maisy Biden,
who's Joe's youngest granddaughter.

They're best of friends.

But Maisy was a superb athlete

and Barack felt like
they could be champions.

So he's slowly moved
those coaches out of the way

and started running practices
for the girls outside on weekends.

They learned two plays,
I think one was "box"

and it was, like-- that's all
they could manage, two plays.

But being in that gym on any given Sunday
when they were playing in it--

all of us went
because we were all kind of engaged.

So you imagine a little community gym
on a Sunday

with the President, the First Lady,
the Vice President, the Second Lady,

Grandma, Malia, all of the kids,

and all their agents

descending upon this one gym,

and then you got the people
on the other side, right?

You know, and it wasn't like Joe
or Barack were holding back.

They were like, "Shoot the ball!
Steal it! Steal it! Get her! Get her!"

- And I'd have to say, "Joe, Joe." Like...
It's fourth grade.

And you're the Vice President.

Okay.

You know? These little girls were like,
"Is he yelling at me?"

But those times felt...

Those times felt like...
that's when we felt like we were alive,

and we were doing
not just the work of the country,

but we weren't neglecting the children
that were ours. You know?

We had a responsibility as parents
to make sure our kids weren't screwed up.

Even as we, you know,
worked on health care

and helped girls get an education.

It's like, who would we be if we didn't...

- Great job.
- ...take care of our knitting,

which was our girls.

What is so surprising about
The Light We Carry

is you open the door
to your own vulnerabilities.

I mean, you just open them all up there,

which makes us feel ever
and even more close to you,

because you have shown us
that you are so real.

And so, I wonder if you
still struggle with self-consciousness.

Oh, my God, yes.

That fearful mind
is still in there, you know?

I'm still trying to manage her.

But yeah, I think that, you know,
that's baked into my DNA as a Black woman.

You know, I am here now, but, you know,

I've had my slings and arrows, you know.

I don't know if you remember
what it was like for us

when we first came to the White House,

when people were challenging
my husband's birth certificate

and calling me an angry,
bitter Black woman

and accusing us of not loving our country,

not "being American," "one of them."

That was part of the game
of "otherising" us, as I say,

"Make them other, not like us,

and then you'll be afraid of them
and scared of them."

You know, you don't let go
of needing to constantly prove yourself

because people's bar is so low for you.

I know that there are a lot
of people in this audience

who have experienced
people who continually

- underestimate them, you know?
- Right. Right.

Who talk down to you,
who think less of you, who misjudge you

because of the-- your differentness,
whatever it is.

And again,
I define differentness broadly.

You carry that.

But I have worked over time
to try to use that energy

and fuel my light
and not let somebody else dim it.

I've tried to take the attitude of,
"I'll show you."

"You don't think I can do this?"

"You don't think I'm gonna be
a good First Lady?"

-"I'm going to work my butt off."

So hard work, for me, is the way
I try to combat that.

I'm going to work my way into visibility.

I don't think anybody
who is not a person of color

can ever fully understand when you say
in The Light We Carry

that for eight years
as First Lady, you said,

"I've been vigilant and cautious
and deeply aware that Barack and I,

and our daughters,
had the eyes of the nation upon us,

and that Black people
in an historically White House,

- we could not afford to screw up."
- Yeah.

And you did not.

You did not!

Not once!

Not once!

Not once did you screw up!

Well, there was the tan suit.

But there was the tan suit.

Although, I was gonna say-- I know.

Do you know how extraordinary that is?

Not only did they not screw up,

nobody in the family screwed up.

There were no sidebar family members.

But let me just say
what Marian Robinson always says,

which is-- it keeps us humble
and focused.

We're representing the truth
of who we have always been, you know?

There are a lot of us out there
that people, again, who feel different,

who are proving their way into relevancy
and are not making missteps.

And, you know, so that's why,
as my father tried to say,

I have to constantly remind myself,

"I cannot prove my way out
of somebody else's mirror

if they're choosing to see me
in a different way."

"That cannot be my focus,
their poison can't be mine."

And that is the message to everybody here,
especially our young people

who are starting to feel
the slings and arrows of otherness,

the limits that people
are trying to set in their world.

We have to practice
being kind to ourselves

and greeting ourselves with gladness

and fueling our own light
and managing our own fears

because some people out there,
they will never see us.

It will never be enough,

and I contend with that by using empathy

and reminding myself

if somebody is that locked
into their smallness,

they are struggling
with self-doubt, you know?

They're struggling
with a level of not-enoughness,

and I've got to be able to see that

and find compassion for that,

and then keep living my life as real,

as vulnerably, as truthfully as I can,

and not let that bog me down.

Well, that's 'cause
you always goin' high, that's why.

Oh, yeah.
We'll talk about that in a minute.

- There you go again.
- There you go, going high.

Okay. How does it feel now to be liberated

from the scrutiny and the judgment

in something as simple as

- what you choose to wear on your body?
- Yeah.

Because, remember when
Michelle and Barack and the family

went to the Grand Canyon,
and Michelle wore the shorts?

You... They tried to turn that
into the biggest scandal.

And I was thinking the other day
when I saw you in Atlanta

in some leather pants...

I said, "Mitch McConnell would call
a senate hearing."

That's right.

If he saw you
in those black leather pants...

...there would be a special session
to discuss...

"What is she trying to say
with those pants?"

- ..."What is she trying to say?"
-"What devilment is she plotting?"

"A revolution."

Can we talk about
your evolving fab, funky...

What is happening with all this fly--

- You know, I think--
- What is happening?

Oprah, I think we...
but we can relate to like '50s, '60s.

Plus, when you have lived long enough

not to care what anybody else thinks,
I mean...

you know, it's just evolution
and it's just growing up

and just realizing,
"Let me just live my life, you know,

let me embrace who I am,"

and, you know, that's the thing
about tools and, you know,

what I try to caution young people
who feel like,

"I don't think that way.
I haven't figured that out."

The first thing I say in that book
to young people reading it

is be patient with yourself.

You know, it takes a lifetime
to find your voice.

It is a process. It is an evolution.

You will not be--
You will not be all that you will be

until you're our age

and you've lived a little bit
and you've had some bumps and you can--

- I love this book for young people.
- Yeah.

- I bought 24 copies.
- Excellent.

Yes.

I paid myself.
I didn't ask for naa free.

- I bought 24--
- You sure didn't.

I did not. I bought 24 copies.

You should double that number.

For the...

See? Oprah's like never satisfied.

I sent... I sent...

- I sent them all to my girls.
- Yeah.

And what I did was
I underlined different part,

like page 68, page 157...

-"This is for you!"
-"This is for you!"

And then I wrote in the beginning,
"Love, from Mama O and Michelle."

- Yes, I'm glad you did.
- Yes.

- You know I love your girls, so yeah.
- Yeah.

So I think that this is a valuable tool...

Available wherever fine books are sold.

I think it's a valuable tool
for young people, especially,

- not to mention a great gift.
- Yeah.

And I hope it's the beginning
of a lot of conversations

because this book is me sharing my tools.

This is what's worked, didn't work for me,
but we all have them,

and we need to be vulnerable
with each other, you know?

I mean, you think of all the things
that we don't talk about?

Yes. Yes, like the Big M?

- Like the Big M?
- Yes.

- I wonder--
- Young women are like, "What's that?"

How is the Big M?
How is menopause treating ya?

You know, it's going all right.
It's going all right.

I mean, I think I'm doing okay.

I think you're looking good!

But it's a trip.

You know... you know, it happened to me
around 52, 53,

and I thought I was dying.

I really did, because I did not--
Did you have hot flashes?

I was able to--
I started hormone therapy. Yeah.

Okay. So I didn't know nothing about that.

See? And that's what we didn't know

- because the studies--
- People don't talk about it.

And here's the thing.
People don't research us as women.

Why don't we know
all about this, you know?

And then they want to tell us
what to do with our wombs

and you don't even-- Stay--

This is what I tell the men in my life.

"You don't know me, you know,
so you should not comment on me."

"You shouldn't have opinion about me,
the way my hair looks,

what happens inside my body,
just stay out of it."

- Stay out of it.
- I love that. I love that.

So, you-- Yes, I use hormone therapy also,

but I didn't know about it
in the beginning.

So I didn't have hot flashes, I only had--

When I asked my mother about it,
she was like, "I don't remember."

My mother says the same thing.

-"I don't remember."
-"I don't remember."

It's like, "Ma, you don't
remember anything. What good are you?"

And so I was having these--
I never had a hot flash,

- but I had terrible heart palpitations.
- Oh, yeah.

I went from doctor to doctor to doctor,
and nobody ever said,

"Oh, you know what?
This could probably be--"

That's because no one
is taking the time to focus on this issue.

I think our generation
is going to change that...

- That's right. Absolutely.
- ...because we don't want our girls

to go through that.
So we are going to talk about it.

So Maya Angelou used to say to me,
"Baby, the fifties are everything

- you've been meaning to be."
- Oh, yes.

"The fifties are everything

- you've been meaning to be."
- It is amazing!

Do you feel that?

This is the best time
I feel most clearly me.

And that's what--
This is where I feel the wisest, right?

And I think, you know, again,
it's like, "This is social media."

It's like everybody--
We like to listen to young people

'cause we think
there's some value in youth.

Y'all don't know nothing.

You know, it's like,
if I want to hear about mothering,

I want to hear it from somebody
who's finished it, you know?

I want to see how you--
yours has turned out

before I decide
whether I take your advice.

Like, so I'd talk to my mother
about mothering,

I'm not talking to, you know,

somebody on the 'Gram or whatever.

Who's now raising kids.

But that's the thing
about women and wisdom.

You know? We get older and society
sort of puts us out to pasture.

Men get older and they are distinguished,
their gray hairs are, "Oh, sexy."

We're supposed to look like we did
when we were 20, you know?

Or we're failing, right?

We are our wisest.

There is so much wisdom
in women our age and older.

And all I'm saying to young women
is make your kitchen table broad.

Make sure that it's not just
a bunch of people your age.

And I do the same thing.

I have young people
at my kitchen table, but I have elders.

There is so much we can learn about
just being a woman, being human.

But we have to be open to the fact
that women know a lot.

And we have to be open to that.

It's like it takes us this long

to be able to look over
all of our successes and claim victory.

Men claim at-- They're 20.
It's like, "I'm the man,"

and it's like,
"You don't know anything either."

But we have to have raised kids,
we have to have 50 million successes,

and just now, I can look over and go,

"I do know something.
I was right. I am strategic."

"I was-- I'm good at this."

We don't give ourselves that credit
as women until now.

Yes. And you help us do that through this.

But we all have it.
We all have it in us, so...

As a parent, you often don't know
when your lessons are getting through.

- Oh, yes.
- Right?

And then you tell the story
in The Light We Carry

about a time you and Barack
went to visit the girls.

- Yes.
- And they were in their new apartment.

And there was
an a-ha moment with a coaster.

- Tell us about that moment.
- Oh, yeah.

They invited us over
for cocktails before dinner.

And so, this is the first time
we're seeing--

They lived together,
and they were adulting.

And it was so cool to watch.

They had furniture and, you know,
they tried to make us some weak martinis.

- You know.

They had a charcuterie board,

even though Malia complained
about the price of cheese.

She's like, "I didn't know
it was this expensive."

I was like, "Oh, now, you counting money
when it's your cheese. You--"

She would sidle up
to our charcuterie board,

eat everything on it
before the guests got there.

I was like, "Have some respect
for the cost of charcuterie."

So we're having our little drinks

and we go to put our drinks
on the table, and whoop!

They whip out some coasters.

I was like, "Oh, now you care
about your cheap li'l table."

I was like, "I didn't see you
whipping out coasters in the White House

when that-- on that 100-year-old,
you know, side table,"

you know?

But it is good to see
that they were listening.

And watching them in the background

discover dust, you know?

I mean, Malia's been fascinated by it.

It's like, "You know, I dust,
and then days later, it's back."

- I'm like, "Yeah."
It works that way.

"That's why you gotta
keep dusting," you know?

I think that the dream
that you express for your daughters

was so poignant in The Light We Carry.

It's kind of a manifesto, I think,
for the 21st century woman.

You say, "I don't want them
to see marriage

as some kind of trophy
to be hunted and won."

Yeah.

So can you tell us more about
what that dream is for your--

Yeah. I want my girls to make choices

based on who they are
and not who society says they should be.

Because we define what it means
to be a happy human so narrowly.

And it doesn't fit everyone,
and I think a lot of depression

and anxiety on both sides,
young men and women, older men and women,

have to do with the fact
that we're trying to cram our lives

into these narrow definitions.

You can only be happy
if you find the love of your life

and get married, right?

Some people aren't built for marriage.

Some people may never find
a partner that they love,

but there's happiness on the other side.

I mean, I know you've experienced this.

It's like how many people
have come up and go,

-"Are you going to have a baby?"
- Yes.

You know, it's like you got
a number one TV show,

you're a kabillionaire,
and it's almost like...

people are still like,

"Oh, but you're not a mother.
I'm so sorry for you."

- Yes.
- It's like, "No, Oprah's happy."

- Very.
-"I've seen her."

-"She real happy." You know?
- I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right.

- Yeah.

But I want my girls and all young girls

to have the option
of taking the time to discover

who they are
and deciding who they want to be.

I think this is true
for men too. Young boys.

There's such a narrow definition
of what it means to be a man. You know?

What if you don't want to run a company?
What if you are not naturally a leader?

What if you love working with your hands?

What if you want to stay home
and be a stay-at-home dad?

Imagine all the CEOs out there--

This is why I think
a lot of men are unhappy and angry

and they're trying to get power
because they're not living their truth.

- I agree.
- They're living some version

of what they think a man should be.

- Of what society says you should be. Yes.
- Exactly.

So, I want us as parents
to let our kids show us who they are

before we start imposing these,

- you know, our goals on to them...
- Yeah.

...so that they can find some happiness.

I love how you end that piece

where you're talking
about Malia and Sasha.

You ended the whole section saying,

-"I hope they find home."
- Yes.

"I hope they find home."

You know, every time
there's a discussion about politics

and who should run for president,
your name comes up.

- So why you bring it up?

So why are you bringing it up now, Oprah?
What you trying to do?

This is why. I want you to--
So I was at a Sunday brunch

and some people were talking about it,
and they were like,

"Well, perhaps maybe
she would consider it."

"Do you think she'll ever consider it?"
I say, "Guaranteed no."

So, can you tell the people
why you will never even consider it?

Running for president.

You know, first of all,
it was like I've never expressed

any interest in politics.

Ever. I mean, I agreed
to support my husband.

You know, he wanted to do it
and he's been-- was great at it.

But at no point have I ever like, said,

"I think I want to run."

Ever. So I'm just wondering,

does what I want
have anything to do with anything?

- That's nice.
- Does who I choose to be, you know,

have anything to do with it?

Politics is hard, and it's--

And the people who get into it--

Just like marriage,
just like kids, you got to want it!

It's got to be in your soul
because it is so important.

It is not in my soul, you know.

Service is in my soul,

helping people is in my soul,
working with kids, that's my...

I will spend my lifetime
trying to make kids feel seen

and find their light.

That I will do.

- I don't have to hold office to do that.
- Yeah.

In fact, I think I'm actually
more effective outside of politics

because sadly,
politics has become so divided.

You know, the minute you declare a party,

you've alienated
the other half of the country, you know?

Now, maybe people who don't agree
with me politically

can still gain some tools
that can help them, you know?

Maybe I can help a kid
who's a republican, right?

Because maybe they'll listen to me.
I think sadly, politics has limited us.

Now, we have to work ourselves
out of that.

You know, we have to sort of
get ourselves together

in how we view one another
across party lines

because we are still one country.

You know, we have to be rooting
for each other all the time.

We can't afford to be split and conquered.

But that won't be me.

I will not be the one
politically doing that.

And I don't think you could wear
those black leather pants either.

I certainly can't! So there. That's that.

So, before reading The Light We Carry,

I was feeling, and I know so many of you
were feeling this too,

because we have all these conversations
about how bad things are

- when we're with our friends.
- Yeah.

And I think a lot of us were feeling like
you felt before you wrote it,

that there are so many massive problems,

there's so many things
that need to be overcome,

and it feels like there's a conspiracy
of craziness going on out here.

So how do we get back to trust?

Yeah.

Trusting our government,
trusting each other...

- Yeah.
- ...in a way

that doesn't make us feel
numbed and tired all the time.

Yeah. I think we can't underestimate

what quarantine did to exacerbate that

because we were isolated
from each other, physically.

And while, to some, that felt good.

It's like,
"Whew, I am so tired of people," right?

I think we need
to be with each other, you know.

We really do.

I think when we gather

and we mix our togetherness, you know,

we feel better, you know?

We feel better--

Don't you all feel better
just being here tonight?

- Don't you feel better? Tuesday night?
- And we haven't been able to do that.

I always say it's harder to hate up close.

And we have been isolated from each other.

We're just hearing about each other
from the news and from our feeds.

And my experience with this country

is that it's a distortion of the truth
of who we are.

I have traveled all around this country,

in communities of all different races,

and socioeconomic backgrounds,
and political affiliations,

and people have...

across the board,
been kind and decent to me,

to my family, once they get to know us.

They may not agree, but we are not
the people that we see on TV,

and I just want us to remember that.

That we should never fear each other.

Everyone-- There are the outliers
of people who are struggling deeply,

but the vast majority of people are like
Toot and Gramps, and Mom and Dad.

They are hardworking,
honest, decent people

who are not entitled,

who are grateful, who are proud Americans,

who are willing to work hard,
who tell the truth.

That's who our country is, and...

But we have to have leaders...

that reflect that back.

You know?

It is dangerous when our leadership
says something different.

I love the beginning of the book.

You have this poem
by Alberto Ríos that says,

"If someone in your family tree
was trouble,

a hundred were not."

"The bad do not win."

"Not finally."

"No matter how loud they are."

"We simply would not be here
if that were so."

It's simple truth.

So that brings us to the phrase
that has become synonymous with your name,

"When they go low, we go high."

"We go high."

And you say that going high

usually involves taking a pause

before you react to anything. Correct?

- Absolutely.
- Okay.

So, what has happened recently
in your life or in the country

that you had to step back and say,
"Let me pause and try to get to high"?

There's plenty in the world
that makes me mad, you know.

- Wait a minute. Can I just ask you this?
- Yes.

Do you go high immediately?

- Oh, no, no, no. No.
- Okay.

No, that's what the kitchen table
is for, remember?

I go sit at my kitchen table and we have
a "go low session."

- You know?

We just go low. We are all
picking ourselves off the floor.

- Okay.
- I used to do this thing with my staff

in the White House
where before I would give a speech

or do an interview,

we'd mock answer the questions

because they knew
I needed to get the low out, you know.

- So I would have--
- Don't we feel better knowing that?

Oh, yeah. I would just play out
what I would call

"Presidential ending statements"
that I could make.

I'd be like, "You know what?"

"We could just go home
if I said 'burr,'" right?

And my team would look and go,

"Yeah, don't do that." You know?

But sometimes, you know...

so going high doesn't mean
you don't feel the rage, right?

It doesn't mean
that you're not supposed to feel.

It doesn't mean that you are complacent

in unfairness and inequality.

It doesn't mean you don't do the work.

It's just the choice of your approach.

And going high is a choice.

It's a choice that I think is most mature.

It's a long-term choice.

And it's not you just wallowing
in the gut feeling

of what you feel that...
at that moment, that's self-indulgent.

And when you're a leader with a platform,

we can't afford
to indulge our innermost ugly, right?

We have a responsibility to go high
because we are living--

We've lived through leadership
that goes low

and no one feels good in that.

It doesn't lead to solutions.
It just doesn't work.

So I answer-- in the book,
by answering the question

that everybody has been asking me,

"Still go high, Michelle?
Now? Really? Really?"

And my answer is, "Yes, absolutely."

"We always go high. We go high..."

"...but we do the work."

And that's what I want
young people to know,

that the light we carry is in all of us,

you know, we have to learn
how to build it up in ourselves first.

We can't look to other people
to build it up in us

because sometimes,
they don't have it in them.

And once we build it up,
we have to protect it, you know?

Protect it with a good kitchen table,
keeping people in,

but also letting people go
when they're not serving you for the best.

- When they're losing oxygen.
- When they're losing oxygen, you know.

You have to protect yourself
from the poison that's out there.

You've got to get out
of other people's mirrors, right?

And then once you've buttressed yourself
and you've got it together,

then it's our responsibility
to share that light.

That's the going high part.

So as you think about interacting,

speaking out, texting, using social media,

think about the light you carry.

Lead with that light

because light begets light,
hope begets hope.

Going high begets more of it.

That's why we do it.

Thank you for reminding us
of the light we carry. Michelle Obama!

- Thank you, Oprah Winfrey!
- The YouTube Theater!

- Thank you, LA! Be good!
- Thank you, LA!

Good night, everybody!