Original subtitles

MY NAME IS VERNE GAGNE.

WRESTLING WAS MY LOVE AND IT WAS

VERY GOOD TO ME FOR A LONG TIME.

AT THE AWA, WHICH I WAS LUCKY

ENOUGH TO RUN AND A LOT OF

OTHERS DID WELL TOO.

SOME OF THEM YOU ALREADY KNOW,

OTHERS YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF,

OTHERS MAY HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN

UNTIL NOW.

THIS IS THE STORY OF THE AWA,

ONE OF THE GREATEST WRESTLING

ORGANIZATIONS EVER.

SOME SAY IT WAS GOOD, OTHER SAY

IT WAS GREAT, I SAY IT WAS

SPECTACULAR.

[MUSIC]

IN THE 1930S AND 1940S,

WRESTLING BECAME VERY

FRAGMENTED.

THERE WERE REGION TO ALL AROUND

THE COUNTRY, SIX OR SEVEN AND

THEY HAD THEIR INDIVIDUAL

HIERARCHIES AND THEIR PROMOTERS,

AND OF COURSE, THE BEST WAY TO

GET A GOOD CROWD IS TO HAVE THE

WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION

APPEARING, WHERE THE WORLD

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION CAN ONLY BE

SPREAD SO THIN.

SO, A LOT OF THE PROMOTERS CAME

UP WITH THEIR OWN VERSION OF THE

WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROMOTERS

GOT TOGETHER IN THE 1947 IN

WATERLOO, IOWA AND FORMED THE

NATIONAL WRESTLING ALLIANCE.

THE NWA WAS BASICALLY A

COOPERATIVE OF WRESTLING

PROMOTERS THAT AGREED TO GET

ALONG AND NOT IN FRIENDS WITH

EACH OTHER'S TERRITORY, TO SHARE

TALENT AND TO RECOGNIZE ONE

CHAMPION.

AND THEN, THIS GROUP OF

PROMOTERS, FIVE OR SIX BECAME

THE CONTROLLING BODY AND TO

ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE A VERY

HEALTHY ORGANIZATION.

AND I THINK IT WORKED PRETTY

WELL FOR AWHILE.

I WAS BORN IN THAT OLD FARM

NEAR CORCORAN, MINNESOTA AND I

WAS BORN IN 1926.

WRESTLING WAS KIND OF IN MY

BLOOD.

HE WOULD SIT ON HIS

GRANDFATHER'S LAP WHEN HE WAS

ABOUT FIVE YEARS OLD AND THEY

LISTEN TO IT ON THE RADIO AND HE

TOLD HIS GRANDFATHER THAT TIME,

"I WANNA BE A PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLER."

IN MY HIGH SCHOOL, I WON THE

STATE WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIP,

ALL THREE YEARS THAT I WRESTLED

AND--WELL, I STATE IN FOOTBALL.

AND WHEN I WAS 18 YEARS OLD AND

THEY GOT TO DRIVE TO THE END OF

THE SERVICE, IN THE MARINE

CORPS, AND I WAS IN THE MARINES

FOR TWO YEARS AND ABOUT THREE,

FOUR MONTHS AND THEN I WON THE

BIG TEN WHEN I GOT TO COLLEGE.

I WON ALL OF FOUR YEARS.

AND I WON NCAA, I WAS IN THREE

OF THOSE AND I WON TWO OF THEM.

I ALSO WON THE NATIONAL AAU

CHAMPIONSHIP IN WRESTLING.

I WENT TO THE OLYMPICS, 1948.

WE HAD TWO TEAMS, FREESTYLE TEAM

AND A GRECO-ROMAN TEAM.

I WAS ON THE GRECO-ROMAN TEAM.

IT [INDISTINCT]

UP FOR US TO GO AT THE END OF

THE--END OF THE TOURNAMENT.

THE NIGHT BEFORE WE WERE WENT

IN, OUR COACHES CAN--DOING

SOME--WE GOT SOME TOUGH PROBLEMS

FOR YOU GUYS AND THEY SAID,

"WE'RE NOT GONNA LET YOU

WRESTLE."

AS WE KNOW, I THINK YOU GUYS NO

ENOUGH ABOUT GRECO-ROMAN

WRESTLING AND WE'RE VERY

DISAPPOINTED AND ANGRY AND ALL

THAT KIND OF THING BECAUSE WE

HAD--WE HAD TRAINED FOR THREE

MONTHS.

AFTER COLLEGE, WE'RE SIGNED

BY THE GREEN BAY PACKERS TO PLAY

FOOTBALL.

I MADE THE TEAM, BUT MY SALARY

WAS $5,000 A YEAR AND THEY

TRADED ITS RIGHTS TO THE CHICAGO

BEARS AND HALAS--GEORGE HALAS AT

THAT TIME, THEY WERE ON THE

BEARS, DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BOTH

WRESTLING AND PLAY FOOTBALL.

AND HE DECIDED THAT WRESTLING

WAS--IS THE DIRECTION HE WANTED

TO GO, THAT WAS HIS DREAM AND HE

MADE A WHOLE LOT MORE MONEY AT

WRESTLING THAN IT EVER WORTH OF

PLAYING PRO FOOTBALL.

AND TONY STECHER WAS THE

PROMOTER OF WRESTLING,

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING HERE

IN MINNESOTA AND THE TWIN CITY,

HERE IN THE MINNEAPOLIS.

AND, SO, I TRAINED FOR THAT WITH

SOMEBODY, A PRO WRESTLER, WHO

HAD BEEN AMATEUR, US AT THE

UNIVERSITY.

AND THEY TAUGHT ME THE

DIFFERENCE, AND THAT SORT OF

THINGS.

SO, I WRESTLED HERE FOR--OUT OF

HERE FOR A WHILE AND THEN

THEY--WHEN THEY COME DOWN TO

OKLAHOMA WHERE THE WEIGHTS WERE

LIGHTER DOWN THERE.

AND BECAME THE JUNIOR

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, NWA JUNIOR

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION AT THAT

TIME.

AND THAT WAS UP UNTIL ABOUT

1952, FROM '49 TO '52 THEN, WE

WERE ON THE ROAD.

I WAS BORN ON 1948 AND WE LIVED

IN A TRAILER AND WE LIVED IN

FROM TULSA, OKLAHOMA TO HOUSTON,

TEXAS AND MOVED AROUND IN THAT

TRAILER.

HE WRESTLED IN THAT AREA UNTIL

1952, THEN HE CAME BACK TO

CHICAGO.

IN CHICAGO, THEY WERE ON THE

DUMONT NETWORK WITH

THE--WRESTLING ON SATURDAY

NIGHTS AND FOR TWO HOURS.

AND THEY WENT UP THERE AND

WRESTLE.

SO, I DID AND IT WAS A GREAT

MOVE WOULD THAT BE, ONCE THE

WHOLE COUNTRY WOULD SEE ON A

SATURDAY NIGHT.

IN THE 1950S, THERE WAS A NEW

PHENOMENON THAT CHANGED ALL OF

AMERICA'S ENTERTAINMENT

[INDISTINCT]

SO, IT'S CALLED TELEVISION.

TO ME, VERNE GAGNE WAS THE

BIGGEST STAR THAN MICKEY MANTLE

AND WILLIE MAYS AND AS BIG AS

ROCKY MARCIANO.

THEY WOULD WATCH THIS ON A

SATURDAY NIGHT AND THESE GUYS

WERE LIKE ROCK STARS TODAY.

WHEN VERVE GAGNE AND LOU THESZ

CAME TO NEW YORK CITY TO COMPETE

ON A SATURDAY NIGHT, WOW.

I JUST SAW THESE GUYS ON TV TWO

WEEKS AGO.

THAT WAS BIG, BIG STUFF.

IT WAS LIKE A MOVIE STAR.

IT'S LIKE JOHN WAYNE AND CARY

GRANT COMING TO YOUR LOCAL

THEATER.

HE WAS THE HULK HOGAN OF THAT

DAY.

NETWORK TV STARTED IN 1952, HE

WAS ON IT.

HE BECAME A HUGE STAR.

HE WAS ON THE ART LINKLETTER

SHOW OR [INDISTINCT]

FREE SHOW, STEVE ALLEN FOR

TONIGHT SHOW.

HE WAS ON THAT.

HE DID COMMERCIALS.

HE WAS THE ONLY WRESTLER WHO

REALLY STEPPED OUT OF THE

WRESTLING REALM AT THE TIME AND

GET THE ENDORSEMENTS THAT'S

WRESTLERS NEVER GOT BEFORE.

JACK BRICKHOUSE, THE NOTED

BASEBALL ANNOUNCER WHO DID

WRESTLING IN THE '50S SAID,

"VERNE GAGNE WAS THIS BIG, IF

NOT BIGGER THAN ANY CHICAGO

BEAR, WHITE SOX OR A CUB PLAYER

IN CHICAGO.

AND YET VERNE, THE ONE THING HE

WANTS TO FEEL FULFILLED, HE'S

MAKING TREMENDOUS MONEY.

HE'S A BIG HERO TO MILLIONS OF

KIDS.

HE'S GOT IN TV EXPOSURES.

HE'S DOING VERY WELL BUT WHAT'S

ANY ATHLETE WANT.

IF YOU'RE AN AMATEUR, YOU WANT

TO BE THE OLYMPIC CHAMPION.

IF YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL, YOU

WANT TO BE THE HEAVYWEIGHT

CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, VERNE

WASN'T GIVEN THAT OPPORTUNITY.

WHEN LOU THESZ WAS THE

CHAMPION AND I WRESTLED HIM

THREE TIMES.

WE HAD TWO DRAWS AND THE LAST,

THE THIRD ONE, HE GOT

DISQUALIFIED.

THEN I COULDN'T GET ANOTHER

MATCH WITH HIM.

THE LAST TIME I WRESTLE HIM, I

SAID, "THE NEXT TIME WE WRESTLE,

I WILL BEAT YOU."

AND I NEVER GOT TO WRESTLE HIM

AFTER THAT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE NWA

PROMOTERS, MORE THAN LOU, WANTED

TO KEEP CONTROL OF THE TITLE

THROUGH LOU.

AND THAT--THERE WAS A PROMOTER

ON CHICAGO NAMED FRED KOHLER WHO

WAS A BIG VERNE GAGNE FAN AND HE

WANTED VERNE TO HAVE A CHANCE TO

BE THE NWA CHAMPION, BUT SOME OF

THE OTHER PROMOTERS FELT THAT

VERNE WAS THE CHAMPION, NWA

CHAMPION, THAT FRED KOHLER WOULD

BE ABLE TO CONTROL HIM IN

GETTING TO THE CHICAGO AREA AND

THEY'D BE LEFT OUT IN THE COLD.

SO, THE NWA PROMOTERS IN MY

UNDERSTANDING WEREN'T INTERESTED

WITH VERNE BECOMING THE

CHAMPION.

THE PROMOTERS GAVE THE NWA AN

ULTIMATUM EITHER MEET OR WE'RE

GONNA BREAK OFF ON OUR OWN.

THAT WAS THE END OF THE

[INDISTINCT]

IN WRESTLING.

SO, WE DECIDED TO GET INTO THE

PROMOTION HERE AND I BOUGHT THE

STECHER'S.

VERNE AND ANOTHER PERSON BY

THE NAME OF WALLY KARBO FORMED A

GROUP AND DECIDED TO PURCHASE

THE TERRITORY.

I WAS NOW RUNNING THE AWA AND

ALSO WRESTLING AT THE SAME TIME.

[MUSIC]

IT WAS BIG FOR ANYBODY TO

BREAKAWAY FROM NWA AT THAT TIME.

THEY WERE A PRETTY COHESIVE

GROUP.

I BELIEVE SHORTLY AFTER THAT,

THE WWWE BROKE AWAY AND FORMED

THEIR GROUP ON THE EAST COAST.

SO, IT WAS MONUMENTAL.

I MEAN, IT WAS HUGE AND THAT'S

WHEN YOU ENDED UP WITH BASICALLY

THREE CHAMPIONS OR THREE WORLD

CHAMPIONS.

YOU HAVE THE NWA, AWA, AND THE

WWWE AT THAT TIME.

IT WAS HUGE.

IT WAS A BREAKAWAY FROM THE

CONTROL OF THE NWA.

VERNE SAW A GRAND

OPPORTUNITY.

HE WAS A GOOD PROMOTER.

HE SAW THE OPPORTUNITY TO NOT

ONLY ENHANCE HIS OWN REPUTATION

AS A SPORT SUPERSTAR, WHICH HE

SHOULD DO, BUT ALSO TO SAW HIS

ABILITY TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY

AND BRING OTHER PEOPLE INTO THE

FOLD.

[MUSIC]

IT WAS CALLED MINNEAPOLIS

BOXING AND WRESTLING AT THAT

TIME.

THEY RAN ON TUESDAY NIGHTS.

THEY DREW ANYWHERE FROM 400 TO

600 PEOPLE.

SO, IT WASN'T--IT WASN'T HUGE.

THEY BECAME PARTNERS WITH WALLY

KARBO.

HIS ROLE WAS TO EXPAND AND BUILD

MINNEAPOLIS AREA.

AND THERE WAS MORE ENERGY AND

MORE ENTHUSIASM ON THEIR PART,

JUST AS WHEN [INDISTINCT]

JR. TO GO OVER FROM HIS DAD.

HE KNEW THAT TO BE

SUCCESSFUL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE

TELEVISION.

YOU CAN'T SELL WRESTLING IN

NEWSPAPERS AND RADIOS.

YOU NEED TELEVISION.

VERNE UNDERSTOOD TELEVISION.

HE UNDERSTOOD PROMOTIONS.

WE DREW A LOT OF MONEY

BECAUSE OF THE TELEVISION AND I

THINK THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING

THAT HELPED AWA AND VERNE DID

GET ALL AND PROMOTE THAT INTO

THE BUSINESS.

HE GOT ON TV IN MINNEAPOLIS,

EXPANDED INTO MILWAUKEE, GREEN

BAY, CHICAGO, WINNIPEG, CANADA,

OMAHA, NEBRASKA, DENVER,

COLORADO, SALT LAKE CITY,

PHOENIX, LAS VEGAS, SAN

FRANCISCO.

HE'S THE ONE THAT WENT OUT AND

ACQUIRED THE TV TIME SLOTS FOR.

HE WAS THE FIGURE HEAD.

OPERATE A LITTLE BIT

DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT WALLY DID,

FOR WALLY WHO WAS THE BACK BONE,

WALLY KIND OF WORK PRETTY CLOSE

WITH ALL THE WRESTLERS.

THEY ALL LOVE WALLY.

WALLY WAS A HELL OF A NICE

GUY.

AND I THINK HE KIND OF KEPT THE

THREADS TOGETHER.

WALLY WAS GREAT AT KIND OF

SMOOTHING THINGS OVER.

VERNE GAGNE, THE OWNER OF THE

AWA, RAN A TIGHT SHIP.

VERNE WAS TOUGH TO WORK FOR.

HE'S TOUGH TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF

HIS PSYCHOLOGY ABOUT WRESTLING

AND PROMOTION.

YEAH, HE WAS A PERFECTIONIST.

EVERYTHING DONE THE WAY HE

VISUALIZE WRESTLING SHOULD BE

DONE.

HE WAS VERY DELIVERED, VERY

MEASURED, HE IS A WRESTLING

PURIST.

WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THAT

INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS A FAIRLY

LARGE EGO WHICH HE HAVE TO HAVE,

I FOUND HIM SOMETIMES HARD TO

DEAL WITH, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN

THIS BUSINESS, A LOT OF THE

PROMOTERS WERE HARD TO DEAL

WITH.

HE'S EXTREMELY OPINIONATED.

HE--JUST HAS NO TIME FOR SOMEONE

THAT ISN'T ON THE GAME, YOU KNOW

AND HE RAN HIS COMPANY THAT WAY

[INDISTINCT]

FLORIDA THAT WAY.

ALL OF THE TERRITORIAL

[INDISTINCT]

AROUND THE COUNTRY WILL RUN

WITH THE SAME CONCEPT.

I'LL PROTECT THE BUSINESS.

THE BUSINESS IS LIKE A FAMILY.

BUSINESS IS ALMOST LIKE THE

MAFIA, NOBODY CAME IN AND NOBODY

WENT OUT.

KEEPING THE HEELS AND BABY

FACES SEPARATED AT ALL TIMES, AT

ANY COST.

IF THEY WERE BOOKED IN

CHICAGO, THE ADVERSARIES WOULD

STAY AT SEPARATE HOTELS

MANDATORILY.

IF THEY DIDN'T, THEY WOULD FINED

OR FIRED.

I JUST WANTED TO WHAT I KNEW

WAS RIGHT IN THE WAY TO DO IT.

THE FIRST CHAMPION OF AWA WAS

VERNE GAGNE AND THAT WAS IN

1957.

I THINK IF I WENT OUT AND

STARTED A WRESTLING ASSOCIATION

AND NAMED MYSELF THE HEAVYWEIGHT

CHAMPION IN THE WORLD, I HAVE

TREMENDOUS PROBLEMS, CREDIBILITY

WISE.

IF YOU OWN A SHOP AND YOU

WORK HERE, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE

BEST CARE OF YOURSELF.

SO, USUALLY IF VERNE WRESTLED,

HE WAS ON THE MAIN EVENT.

HE ALSO--OF COURSE, THERE WAS A

CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

IN VERNE'S EYES, I THINK THAT

VERNE WAS--HE THOUGHT HE WAS--HE

WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MERELY MEAN TO

SAY THAT IT WAS THE BEST THING.

AND I THINK THAT BECAME A

PROBLEM.

YOU CAN'T FAULT HIM FOR THAT

BECAUSE FRITZ VON ERICH WAS THE

CHAMPION OF HIS TERRITORY AND HE

WAS THE PROMOTER AND HE DID THE

SAME THING, [INDISTINCT]

THE SAME THING.

IT WASN'T UNUSUAL AND EVERYBODY

KIND OF KNEW THAT THAT'S THE WAY

IT WAS.

THE PRIMARY REASON THAT A LOT

OF PROMOTERS AND OWNERS OF

TERRITORIES IN THE EARLY DAYS OF

WRESTLING WERE THE TOP STARS WAS

VERY SIMPLE.

THEY--IN THE [INDISTINCT]

WERE THE ONE PERSON IN THE

TERRITORY THAT CAN BE TRUSTED.

THEY HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE.

IT WAS THEIR HOME BASE.

THEY OWNED THE BUSINESS AND I

KNEW THEY WEREN'T GONNA WALK

OUT.

THERE IS NOBODY WHO COULD

LOOK OF WHAT VERNE ACCOMPLISHED

AS AN AMATEUR, AND AS A PRO AT

THAT POINT.

HE SAID THIS GUY DOESN'T DESERVE

TO BE A CHAMPION.

IN FACT, I THINK HE COULD MAKE

THE CASE.

VERNE GAGNE WAS PROBABLY ONE OF

THE FIVE OR SIX GREATEST

CHAMPIONS IN THE HISTORY OF

WRESTLING GOING BACK TO GEORGE

HACKENSCHMIDT AND FRANK GOTCH AT

THE TURN OF THE 19TH CENTURY.

VERNE WAS A SUPER TALENT.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

HE WAS ATHLETIC.

A LOT OF QUICK MOVES, A LOT

OF ACROBATIC MOVES.

FUNDAMENTALLY, HE WAS VERY,

VERY SOUND.

HE WAS VERY INTENSE IN THE

RING.

HE WORKS VERY SNUG.

EVERYTHING HE DID IN THE RING

WAS SO BELIEVABLE AND IT WAS

BELIEVABLE BECAUSE HE KNOCK YOUR

BLOCK OFF.

WONDERFUL WORK.

HE COULD WRESTLE WITH ANYBODY.

HE HAD A CERTAIN FLARE TO

HIM.

HE HAD A LOT OF CHARISMA.

WAS A REAL GRASSROOTS

WRESTLER WHO HAD FANTASTIC

TECHNIQUE.

HE WAS ONE OF MY IDOLS IN

TERMS OF WHO I WANNA BE LIKE IN

THE RING.

I GUESS YOU COULD CALL HIM

THE MASTER IN THE RING.

HE WAS EXCELLENT TO WORK

WITH.

HE WAS A MODEL AND I THINK

ALL THE YOUNG ATHLETIC TYPE BABY

FACE WRESTLERS SORT OF EMULATED.

VERNE HAD THE ABILITY TO SELL

TICKETS AND DRAW MONEY.

HE WASN'T STUPID ENOUGH TO THINK

THAT, WELL, I'LL BE MY CHAMPION,

THAT'S HOW THAT HE'LL GO.

HE STILL HAD TO MAKE MONEY FOR

HIMSELF, HIS FAMILY, AND ALL THE

FAMILIES AND TALENTS, THEY

WRESTLE FOR IT.

VERNE GAGNE WITH ANYBODY WILL

DRAW MONEY.

HIM AND BILLY ROBINSON HAD

SOME PHENOMENAL MATCHES.

I THINK BILLY ROBINSON FOR--A

PURE WRESTLER, WAS THE HARDEST

ONE I EVER WRESTLE WITH.

HE WAS GREAT ON THE SUBMISSION

HOLD.

ONE OF THE GREATEST TECHNICAL

WRESTLERS IN THE WORLD.

HE IS A TREMENDOUS

TECHNICIAN.

HE HAD A GOOD BALANCE AND A

GOOD SPEED.

HE'S A SUPERB ATHLETE.

ALL OF HIS MATCHES WERE LIKE

A FIGHT.

I MEAN, HE WAS--HE WAS A SHOWMAN

BUT HE WAS ALSO BROUGHT

CREDIBILITY TO THE RING.

WAS PROBABLY THE MOST

KNOWLEDGEABLE WRESTLER.

HIS SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF

THE MOVE AND THE COMBINATIONS

AND EVERYTHING MADE ME RAISE MY

BAR.

AND I THINK THAT HE PROBABLY

WAS POUND-FOR-POUND, PROBABLY

ONE OF THE TOUGHEST WRESTLERS IN

HIS DAY.

ONE OF THE BIG DRAWERS OF

THAT TIME WAS VERNE AGAINST NICK

BOCKWINKEL.

OF COURSE, BOCKWINKEL CAME

FROM A GREAT WRESTLING FAMILY.

HIS FATHER, WARREN BOCKWINKEL,

HAD BEEN A GOOD-SIZED STAR IN

THE 40S AND 50, WRESTLING

AGAINST LOU THESZ.

AND HE WAS JUST VERY, VERY GOOD

LIKE GORGEOUS GEORGE WAS OR

BUDDY ROGERS AT PLAYING THE

ARROGANT ONCE YOU GOT IN THE

RING.

HE HAD THAT EDGE ABOUT HIM,

THAT VERY ARROGANT EDGE THAT GOT

PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, RILED AGAINST.

HE WAS THE KIND OF WRESTLER

YOU LOVE TO HATE.

THERE WAS A GUY THAT I ALWAYS

PERCEIVE AS A CLASS ACT.

A CLASS ACT AS THE WORLD

CHAMPION.

HE WAS A CLASS ACT.

HE WAS NOT A BIG, HUGE, MUSCULAR

SPECIMEN BY ANY MEANS, BUT HE

JUST--HE HAD THIS CERTAIN AIR

ABOUT HIM.

WHENEVER HE WAS THE AWA

CHAMPION, HE WAS A VERY, VERY

DISTINGUISHED LOOKING.

CARRIED HIMSELF AT THE RING

LIKE A TRUE PROFESSIONAL.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU SAW THE GUY,

YOU JUST KNEW THAT HE WAS THE

REAL DEAL.

HE LOOKED LIKE THE HOLLYWOOD

TYPE THAT HE PORTRAYED.

SPORTS CULTURE SUITS, BLONDE

HAIR.

HE WAS REALLY SMOOTH ON THE

MIC, YOU KNOW, AND HE'S BIG ON

WORDS THAT HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND

AND NOBODY ELSE DID EITHER

AND...

PREDOMINANTLY ABOVE MY GREAT

TALENT, MY SKILL, MY INTESTINAL

FORTITUDE, MY GUT, MY CUNNING,

IS MY INTELLIGENCE.

THE GUY SPOKE VERY

ELOQUENTLY.

HE WAS EXCELLENT ON INTERVIEWS.

AND COULD WORK AND GET THE

POINT ACROSS AND TELL A GOOD

STORY AND HAVE A GREAT MATCH.

I WOULD PUT HIM UP THERE IN

THE TOP FIVE OF ALL TIME THAT

I'VE EVER WRESTLED.

I THINK THE GUY WAS JUST GREAT.

NICK BOCKWINKEL, TO ME IN THE

AWA WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST

PREMIERE GUYS ON THE ROSTER.

[MUSIC]

ALL TO [INDISTINCT]

FOR THE LAST 17 YEARS OF MY

CAREER IN THE AWA AND IT WAS

TERRIFIC.

ONCE YOU GOT USED TO HAVING OFF

THREE AND HALF DAYS OF WEEK, IT

WAS FUN.

THEY WOULD RUN SHOWS ONCE A

MONTH WHERE ALL OF THE OTHER

AMERICA WAS RUNNING WEEKLY.

AND HE PICKED HUGE CITIES THAT

WOULDN'T SUPPORT A WEEKLY

BUSINESS AND TURN THAT INTO A

HUGELY SUCCESSFUL COMPANY BY

RUNNING THEM ONCE A MONTH.

HE WAS WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME FOR

RUNNING BIG CITIES.

WHEN I WORKED IN AWA, IT WAS

ONE OF THE TERRITORIES FOR

WORKING ESPECIALLY IN THE WINTER

TIME.

WINTER TIME WAS THE WRESTLING

SEASON IN [INDISTINCT]

THROUGH THE WINTER MONTHS,

THOSE WERE THE BEST MONTHS OF

THE YEAR.

AND THE END OF APRIL WAS THE

BEST CARDS OF THE YEAR.

GAMES SELL OUT TO 25, 30,000

[INDISTINCT]

AND YOU AIM YOUR BIG MATCHES

FOR THAT.

FROM MAY TO ABOUT THE MIDDLE

OF JUNE, WE TOOK TIME OFF AND

THEN WE START TO BACK UP THE

MAJOR CITIES.

AND THEN IN OCTOBER, WE BROUGHT

IN ANDRE THE GIANT, WE RAN

BATTLE ROYALS.

AND THEN WE RAN 30 TOWNS, I

MEAN, FROM OCTOBER 1ST TO

OCTOBER 30TH, YOU ARE WORKING

EVERY NIGHT.

AND THAT WAS MAJOR CITIES AND

SMALL TOWNS.

WE NEEDED ALL OF THEM TO MAKE

THE TERRITORY WORK AND EVERYBODY

MAKE A LIVING AND A PROMOTION TO

SURVIVE.

THERE WAS A LOT DRIVING.

THERE WAS TWO OR THREE GUYS IN

THE CAR THAT I GOT TO BE VERY

GOOD FRIENDS AND SPEND MORE TIME

WITH THEM THAN YOUR OWN FAMILY

ACTUALLY.

I THOUGH [INDISTINCT]

WHEN DRIVE OFF THE EDGE WHEN

THEY OUT THERE, I NEVER DROVE

[INDISTINCT]

IN MY LIFE.

ALL THE WAY UP TO WINNIPEG, ALL

THE WAY DOWN ROCKFORD, ILLINOIS,

DOWN TO OMAHA.

WE USED TO BE ON THE TRAVEL

WITH SOME OF THE VETERANS AND

YOU WERE TALKED WRESTLING ALL

THE WAY DOWN.

SO, YOU WOULD REALLY LEARN THE

WHOLE CONCEPT OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING AND WHAT IT WAS ALL

ABOUT.

WE HAD A TOP TALENT, GREAT

WRESTLERS.

WE HAD A GOOD PROMOTIONALLY

DEPARTMENT, STRONG TELEVISION.

AND WE HAD A GUY LIKE VERNE

GAGNE WHO REALLY KNEW WRESTLING

AND WE HAD ALL OF THE RIGHT

ELEMENTS TO MAKE THE AWA THE

PREMIERE WRESTLING PROMOTIONS.

WE WERE THE HIGHEST RATED

TELEVISION SHOW.

ONE SHOW BEAT US AND THAT WAS 60

MINUTES.

THEY HAD THE 65 SHARE OF THE

AUDIENCE.

WE HAD THE 64 SHARE.

OUR RATINGS RANGE FROM A 22 TO A

27 RATING.

YOU DON'T EVEN HEAR RATINGS LIKE

THAT.

WE HAD THOSE SAME NUMBERS IN

CHICAGO, IN DENVER, IN

MILWAUKEE, IN OMAHA, IN GREEN

BAY, AND IN WINNIPEG.

VERNE PRODUCED A TV SHOW AND GOT

THE TV SCORES.

HE BROUGHT WRESTLING TO

TELEVISION AND LEGITIMIZED THE

SPORT.

THE AWA, AS FAR AS I KNOW,

WAS ONE OF THE FIRST WRESTLING

PROMOTIONS TO DO BIG

EXTRAVAGANZA WRESTLING AND IN

THE BIG OUTDOOR BALL FIELDS.

THE AWA AGAIN AND VERNE WAS

INSTRUMENTAL IN THIS KIND OF A

FORMAT.

LARGE CROWDS, NO MATTER

WHERE, IT'S AN UPPER AND WHEN

YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU'VE GOT

25, 30,000 PEOPLE THAT ARE

WATCHING YOU, YOU'RE PUSHING,

YOU'RE PUTTING OUT, YOU'RE

BUSTING YOUR BUTT, BECAUSE YOU

HAVE--IT'S JUST BASICALLY SELF

PRIDE AS A PROFESSIONAL.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT, GET OUT

OF IT.

YOU'RE IN THE WRONG BUSINESS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO GRADUATE

TO THE RING TO A STYLE OF

WRESTLING THAT HAS EVOLVED HERE

IN AMERICA OVER THE LAST 40

YEARS, IS THE VELOCITY OF

WRESTLING CALLED PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

VERNE WANTED TO DO A MOVIE ON

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

HE MADE SOME CONTACTS IN

HOLLYWOOD, THEY LIKED THE IDEA,

PUT THE WHOLE THING TOGETHER.

IT WAS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD MOVIE,

REALLY.

AND IT WAS QUITE SUCCESSFUL.

IT WAS WRESTLING AND HE

WANTED TO TELL THE STORY OF THE

BUILD UP TO A MATCH.

AND THE MATCH WAS HIM AND BILLY

ROBINSON.

HI, BILLY.

HI, VERNE.

WELL, HERE I AM.

WHAT'S UP?

MIKE, I WANNA MATCH WITH YOU.

NO WAY.

THAT WAS HIS IDEA AND HE GOT

IT ON THE SCREEN.

WE'RE GONNA BE THE CHAMPIONS

OF THE WORLD, WE'RE GONNA BEAT

CRUSH AND WE'RE GONNA BE SO BAD

THAT THE WHOLE TOWN'S GONNA

STAND UP AND SAY, "WE ARE WITH

YOU, RHODES.

WE ARE WITH YOU, MURDOCH.

WE'LL GO WHATEVER YOU GOT IT.

YOU GOT IT, YOU GOT IT."

WELL, FANS YOU'VE HEARD DIRTY

DUSTY RHODES AND DICK MURDOCH

TALKING ABOUT THEIR MATCH.

ANYTIME, YOU CAN STEP OUT OR

THINK OUT OF THE BOX AND GET

YOUR TALENT INVOLVED AND NOW,

THE MEDIA IS PART OF THE

PICTURE.

...PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING IN

PAIN AND BLOOD AND [INDISTINCT]

AND BROKEN BONES, AND

HEADACHES, THEN BACKACHES, AND

PAIN.

MCDANIEL, YOU ARE GOING TO--YOU

ARE GOING TO EXPERIENCE PAIN,

I'M BUSTING YOU ON THE FIFTH...

VERNE KNEW WHAT HE WANTED.

HE UNDERSTOOD WRESTLING, HE

UNDERSTOOD TELEVISION, HE KNEW

PROMOTION, HE WAS A GOOD

BUSINESSMAN.

YOU KNOW, VERNE HAD TELEVISION

DEALS AND HE WAS BUSY SETTING UP

THE TV NETWORK AND DOING ALL

THAT.

THAT WAS HIS, YOU KNOW, FORTE,

IF YOU WILL.

THE AWA WAS FOR CERTAIN UP IN

THE WEST PART OF THE COUNTRY.

NWA WAS PRETTY MUCH DOWN SOUTH,

GO OUT TO THE WEST.

AND THEN OF COURSE, WWWE WAS

WHAT I CALL THE NORTHEAST

TRIANGLE, PITTSBURGH, WASHINGTON

MAIN.

AND THOSE WERE THE PLACES THAT

ENCOMPASSED, YOU KNOW, ALL OF

THOSE THREE ORGANIZATIONS.

WWWE WAS THE PINNACLE BUT IF

AWA WAS UNDERNEATH THAT, IT

WASN'T BY MUCH IN THE '70S.

IF YOU WANTED TO GET

TELEVISION EXPOSURE AND YOU

WANTED TO MAKE MONEY, AND YOU

WANTED TO BECOME A STAR, IF YOU

WILL, YOU CAME TO MINNESOTA, YOU

CAME TO VERNE, AND VERNE HAD HIS

TRAINING CAMP.

VERNE TRAINED--I COULD SIT HERE

FOR AN HOUR AND NAME ALL THE

WRESTLERS THAT VERNE TRAINED AT

HIS TRAINING CAMP.

AWA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME

OF THE BIGGEST STARS EVER, EVER.

STEVENS AND PATTERSON ARE

GONNA GO ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP,

THE WORLD'S TAG TEAM CHAMPION.

YOU KNOW, RAY STEVENS, PAT

PATTERSON, DUSTY RHODES, I MEAN

THE--IT'S A WHO'S WHO LIST OF

PEOPLE THAT MADE THIS BUSINESS.

TIGHT ORGANIZATION, WHO RUN

THE CORRECT WAY.

TALENT, OH, MY GOD, BETTER THAN

NEW YORK THIS TIME.

THE TALENT WAS TWICE AS GOOD AS

NEW YORK THIS TIME.

PEDRO MORALES.

HE'S HANDPICKED THE--PICKED

ALL THE GOOD STUFF, YOU KNOW.

HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING.

I THINK VERNE HAD A GREAT EYE

FOR TALENT AND A GREAT EYE FOR

THE ATHLETE.

AND I THINK ALSO HE WAS PROBABLY

UNDERRATED HIS HAVING AN EYE FOR

THE SIZZLE.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK BACK TO GUYS

LIKE HULK HOGAN AND JESSE "THE

BODY" VENTURA, AND BOBBY "THE

BRAIN" HEENAN, THAT WERE GREAT

SPORTS ENTERTAINERS IN THEIR

DAY, ALL LARGELY ESTABLISHED

THEIR ROOTS IN MINNEAPOLIS.

IF YOU TRAIN UP THERE, PEOPLE

KNEW THAT YOU CAME OUT READY TO

ROCK AND ROLL.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MUSICALLY,

I MEAN THEY KNEW THAT YOU HAD

SOUND FUNDAMENTALS, AND WERE

TAUGHT THE BUSINESS RIGHT.

AND HE WAS MAKING NEW SHOW

YOUR INTENSE DEDICATION TO THE

GAME.

AND IT WAS PART OF THE PRICE

YOU'RE GONNA PAY TO GET INTO THE

CLUB.

COMING TO TRAIN BASICALLY

MEANT COME ON, AND GET THE

LIVING -- KICKED OUT OF YOU.

WE WOULD DO SIX HOURS A DAY,

SIX DAYS A WEEK.

AND WE WORKED OUT ON A FARM MY

DAD HAD ON CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA

AND YOU CAN IMAGINE IN

MINNESOTA, THE END OF NOVEMBER

AND THROUGH DECEMBER WHEN WE

TRAINED WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN

THERE.

EVERYBODY THAT CAME OUT OF THAT

CAMP WAS SUCCESSFUL AND MADE

MONEY IN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

YOU GOT TO KNOW HOW TO FALL,

IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO FALL,

YOU'RE GONNA GET HURT, AND IF

YOU'RE HURT YOU CAN'T WRESTLE,

AND IF YOU CAN'T WRESTLE YOU

DON'T EAT.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE

WOULD SAY THEY WERE ALMOST

BARBARIC IN THE SENSE BUT IF YOU

LOOK AT THE SUCCESS RIGHT, IF

YOU LOOK IN THE BOTTOM LINE,

YOU'D HAVE TO SAY HE WAS ONE OF

THE BEST.

HE COULD TAKE AN INDIVIDUAL

AND KNOW HOW TO BUILD THEM INTO

A STAR, THEY ALL BECAME STARS.

FROM ALGERIA, MAD DOG VACHON,

MAD DOG VACHON.

MAD DOG VACHON, 10 YEARS OF

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING NEVER

MADE IT, BUT TO GET OUT HIS

BACKGROUND AND WHERE HE CAME

FROM, WHERE HIS FAMILY CAME FROM

AND WHAT HE DID, MY FATHER

HELPED BRING THAT OUT.

I SAID TO MYSELF, DEEP DOWN

IN THE MIND, DEEP DOWN WHERE IT

WAS DARK, AND COOL.

I SAID, "WOULDN'T THAT BE A NICE

PLACE FOR SOMEONE LIKE

BLACKWELL?"

THAT'S WHERE I HAD THE IDEA OF

BUILDING THIS PINE BOX.

AND MAD DOG WAS--HE WAS A

FREAKING LUNATIC.

HERE COMES THE CRUSHER.

CRUSHER WAS PROBABLY THE MOST

UNIQUE WRESTLER EVER.

DOES HE KNOW THAT I WON MR.

SALOON 10 YEARS IN A ROW IN

MILWAUKEE?

WAIT A MINUTE.

WHAT ARE YOU, SOME CRUMP ON

ME FOOLING AROUND?

TEN YEARS IN A ROW THE TITLE

OF MR. SALOON?

THAT'S RIGHT.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANS THAT I'M THE BEST

IN THE WORLD.

THAT TITLE HAS RECOGNIZED MORE

THAN ANY TITLE IN THE WORLD, BUT

YOU CAN'T MESS WITH MR. SALOON,

YOU GOT TO DO A LOT OF THINGS TO

DO THAT.

YOU GOT TO BE THE POLKA, YOU GOT

TO BE ABLE TO [INDISTINCT]

THE SALOON, THERE'S A LOT

INVOLVED.

HE LIKES TO GO IN THE BARS AT

NIGHT AND DRINK BEER, AND HE

WOULD TRAIN WITH THE KEG OF BEER

ON HIS SHOULDER.

WELL, WHEN MY FATHER BROUGHT

THAT INTERVIEW OUT OF HIM AND

WHO HE REALLY WAS, HE BECAME A

SUPERSTAR.

THE CLAWMASTER, BARON VON

RASCHKE, VON RASCHKE.

BARON VON RASCHKE, VERY SHY

INDIVIDUAL, VERNE HELPED BRING

HIS PERSONALITY OUT.

THE CLAWMASTER, BARON VON

RASCHKE, BIG, ROUGH, TOUGH,

RUGGED.

HE IS AN EXCELLENT WRESTLER

WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

THE CAST, THE CAST ON HIS ARM

WAS MADE OUT OF CEMENT.

IT LOOKS LIKE A BRICK, LIKE

HITTING A MAN WITH A BRICK.

AND THAT IS ALL THE PEOPLE NEED

TO KNOW.

FROM THE GREAT STATE OF

TEXAS, DICK MURDOCH AND DIRTY

DUSTY RHODES.

DUSTY RHODES, DICK MURDOCH

CAME UP FROM SAN ANTONIO, THEY

MADE NOTHING BUT MONEY HERE.

THEY GIVE THEIR [INDISTINCT]

TO GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY

WANTED TO SEE.

THEY WANTED TO SEE THOSE

VILLAINS GET THROWN AROUND AND

GET THE DARK CRAP BEAT OUT OF

THEM.

THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT

GUYS THAT KNEW THEIR PART, AND

KNEW WHAT WAS REQUIRED AND GAVE

WHAT THEY PEOPLE WANTED TO SEE.

THEY CALL HIM THE CRIPPLER,

RAY STEVENS.

WHAT A GREAT PERFORMER RAY

STEVENS WAS.

HE WAS DOING THINGS THAT OTHER

GUYS DIDN'T DO AT THE TIME.

HE WAS JUST THE NATURAL.

HE INSTINCTIVELY DID THE RIGHT

THING THAT THE RIGHT MOMENT.

HE WAS LIKE A CAT.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE PEOPLE.

MANAGER BOBBY "THE BRAIN"

HEENAN.

AND BOBBY HEENAN WAS THE

GREATEST MANAGER OF ALL TIME,

BAR NONE.

HE WAS THE BEST.

MY FATHER STUCK BOBBY HEENAN

WITH NICK BOCKWINKEL.

AND HE BROUGHT ANOTHER LOOK TO

BOCKWINKEL THAT JUST ELEVATED

HIM TO THAT NEXT LEVEL.

EVERYBODY KNOWS I'M GORGEOUS,

PRETTY, BEAUTIFUL, WHATEVER YOU

WANNA CALL ME BUT NOW I HAVE A

BRAIN, A BRAIN NOBODY'S EVER

TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, YOU CAN

REFER TO ME FROM NOW ON AS BOBBY

"THE BRILLIANT ONE" HEENAN.

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED,

BOBBY HEENAN IS BUT OF A

[INDISTINCT]

OF A STEP BEHIND RAY STEVENS.

BUT HE WAS SUCH AN OUTSTANDING

MANAGER, EVERYBODY THINKS OF HIM

AS A MANAGER.

BOBBY COULD REPLACE ME IN ANY

MATCH ON THE BUILDING WOULD BE

JUST AS WILD.

BOBBY COULD REPLACE RAY IN ANY

MATCH AND THE BUILDING WOULD BE

JUST AS WILD.

BUT I COULDN'T DO WHAT BOBBY DID

AND RAY COULDN'T DO WHAT BOBBY

DID.

HERE IN THE RING NOW WITH A

PROFESSIONAL.

I'M GONNA GO BEHIND THAT MAN SO

MUCH HE'S GONNA THINK HE'S STUCK

IN A REVOLVING DOOR.

I'M GONNA TAKE HIM DOWN, TAKE

HIM AROUND, SHOW HIM THE TOWN.

I'M GONNA REVERSE, NECK SNAP HIS

NECK.

I'M GONNA DISLOCATED BOTH OF HIS

SHOULDERS, THEN I MIGHT JUST

PAINT BRUSH UNTIL MY HANDS ARE

SWOLLEN SHUT.

BOBBY WAS THE GREATEST

AD-LIBBER EVER.

HE WAS SHARP LIKE THAT, HE WOULD

COME ON AND DO AN INTERVIEW AND

LAM AWAY, AND FANTASTIC IN THE

RING.

THEY CALLED HIM THE WEASEL.

HE IS--AS A MAN [INDISTINCT]

THE CRUSHER STARTED

AT--CALLING HIM THE WEASEL AND

IT WAS GREAT, JUST FABULOUS.

THE HIGH FLYERS, JIM

BRUNZELL, GREG GAGNE.

WHEN THEY PUT GREG AND I

TOGETHER AS THE HIGH FLYERS, WE

HAD ONE GOOD MATCH AFTER

ANOTHER.

AND THE PEOPLE RECEIVED US, YOU

KNOW, I MEAN IT WAS INCREDIBLE.

WE WERE FLYING AND DROPKICKING,

AND HEADSCISSORING, AND THEN WE

SORT OF GREW AND FOLLOWING AND

THEN--AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR

FIVE OR SIX YEARS.

I MEAN WE HAD A HECK OF A TRACK

RECORD.

YOU SEE GENE OKERLUND, LET'S

GO TO HIM.

YOU KNOW, LET'S TAKE A LOOK

AT THE SIZE OF YOUR HAND.

I WANNA COMPARE IT TO MINE.

FANS, TAKE A LOOK AT THIS.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?

PERHAPS EVEN, LET'S COMPARE IT

TO THE SIZE OF MY HEAD.

ANDRE THE...

GENE WAS THE MAN.

HE WAS--HE WAS THE GUY.

AND I'M GONNA HAVE TO ASK

YOU, NATURE BOY, WHAT CAN STORE

FOR YOUR OPPONENTS AND YOURSELF

IN 1977?

THERE'S STILL LOT MORE OF

WHAT HAPPENED IN '76.

SO THEY WERE LOOKING FOR

SOMEONE TO DO THE WRESTLING

INTERVIEWS.

WE GAVE HIM A SHOT AND THEN THE

REST IS HISTORY.

I STILL SAY THAT GENE WAS AND IS

THE GREATEST INTERVIEW AND

WRESTLING ANNOUNCER.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,

SUPERSTAR BILLY GRAHAM.

IT REALLY CLICKED IN MANY OF

THIS FOR ME.

IT'S REALLY AN INCREDIBLE PLACE

TO BE.

[INDISTINCT]

CAMERA AT THE SIDE OF MY BODY.

THIS PRINT--THESE COLORS ARE IN

REMEMBRANCE OF FALL.

AUTUMN IS NEAR AND I'M WEARING

THE COLORS OF AUTUMN ON MY BODY.

THERE'S MORE COLORS ON MY BODY

THAN THE RAINBOW IN SKY, DADDY.

I AM A REFLECTION OF PERFECTION,

THE NUMBER ONE SELECTION.

I BEGAN TO WEAR THE TIE DYE,

AND I BEGAN TO MAKE MY OWN TIE

DYE PANTS, WRESTLING PANTS AND

SHIRTS.

AND SO I BECAME A VERY COLORFUL

WRESTLER WITH THE BIGGEST ARMS

IN THE WORLD.

OH, THE ARM WRESTLING

CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY FINE

INTRODUCTION BECAUSE I AM NOT

ONLY THE ARM WRESTLING CHAMPION

OF THE WORLD, BUT I AM THE ARM

WRESTLING CHAMPION OF THE ENTIRE

UNIVERSE.

YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE LIFE ON

MARS, THERE MIGHT BE MARTIANS UP

THERE AND IF THERE, AND IF THERE

IS, I COULD EVEN BEAT THEM WITH

ARM WRESTLING.

SUPERSTAR WAS A DEEP THINKER,

INTELLIGENT, AND WHEN HE

EXPLODED ON THE SCENE, IT WAS

REALLY SOMETHING.

[CROWD CHEERING]

A COVER BY GAGNE, ONE, TWO,

THREE.

[CROWD CHEERING]

VERNE GAGNE WITH ANYBODY

WOULD DRAW MONEY.

HIM AND BILLY ROBINSON HAD SOME

PHENOMENAL MATCHES.

VERNE AND LARRY "THE AXE"

HENNIG, THEY WERE BOTH FROM

ROBBINSDALE, MINNESOTA.

THEY HAD A NATURAL FEUD.

THEY HATED EACH OTHER, AND THEY

REALLY DIDN'T LIKE EACH OTHER.

VERNE AND NICK BOCKWINKEL WOULD

SELLOUT WHEREVER THEY GO.

VERNE AND BOCKWINKEL WAS

PROBABLY THE GREATEST FEUD HE

EVER CREATED.

NICK BOCKWINKEL AND VERNE

GAGNE DOMINATED THE AWA IN THE

20-YEAR PERIOD, FROM 1960 TO

1980.

BEATING VERNE GAGNE IN HIS

HOMETOWN, ONE COULD SALIVATE ON

THAT.

I WAS ONE OF THE--KIND OF PEOPLE

THAT ALWAYS LOVE NEEDLING HIM,

YOU KNOW.

AND ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, HE WAS

THE BOSS BUT DIDN'T MAKE ANY

DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS I WAS

CONCERNED.

THE WHOLE THING HERE IS CAN

THE AGING FORMER CHAMPION, CAN

THE MAN WHO WAS ONCE THE GREAT

ATHLETE, DOES HE HAVE ENOUGH

DETERMINATION, SPIRIT AND GUTS?

DOES HE HAVE A QUALITY?

WHEN HIS TANK RUNS DRY AND HE

STARTS SCRAPING THE INSIDE OF

THE BARREL, WILL HE STILL HAVE

ENOUGH UNDER HIS FINGERNAILS TO

PULL HIM ACROSS THE LINE ONE

SECOND BEFORE ME?

TERRIFIC PERFORMER IN THE

RING, TERRIFIC WRESTLER.

[INDISTINCT]

AND NEEDLESS TO SAY, HE WAS

HOMETOWN BOY, SO I ANYTIME YOU

STEP ON HIS TOES AND HE SQUEALED

-- HE'LL NOTICE YOU.

BASICALLY, THEY WERE LIKE

CLASSIC WRESTLING MATCHES AND

FOR WRESTLERS TO WATCH THAT, IT

WAS LIKE A THING OF BEAUTY

BECAUSE EVERYTHING WAS SO SMOOTH

AND WELL DONE.

I'M TRYING TO GO OUT AS THE

CHAMPION, GENE, HAS NEVER DONE

BEFORE, AND I WOULD LIKE--I MEAN

MY GREAT GOAL I TOLD YOU IS TO

RETIRE WITH THE BELT.

YOU KNEW HE WAS GOING TO PUT

THE PRESSURE ON YOU, AND THAT

WAS MY INTENTION, TOO, PUT THE

PRESSURE ON HIM, MAKE HIM

PERFORM.

IT'S A LITTLE PSYCHOLOGICAL

THING BETWEEN THE TWO GUYS THAT

ARE GETTING IN THERE.

AND JUST LITTLE ONE-UPMANSHIP,

THE LITTLE BIT BETTER MOVE AND

LITTLE VIEW MADE, I MADE THE

SAME MOVE AND I MADE A LITTLE

BIT BETTER, AND THERE'S THAT

COMPETITIVE THING THERE, YOU

KNOW.

AND THAT'S WHAT I LIKED ABOUT

HOGAN, A LOT OF SIMILARITIES

THERE.

YEAH, BECAUSE ONCE THAT BELL

RINGS, YOU BETTER BE IDLING AT

4,000 RPMS.

THIS CROWD AND THAT'S

[INDISTINCT]

PREVAILING HERE TONIGHT.

SEVENTEEN THOUSAND HAS DRAWN.

OH, AND A SUPLEX.

[CROWD CHEERING]

HOW DID HE DO IT?

ONE, TWO, THREE, AND IT'S ALL

OVER.

NICK BOCKWINKEL AND VERNE

GAGNE WERE ALMOST IN BED

TOGETHER.

THEY WERE SUCH GOOD FRIENDS,

THEY WERE SUCH GOOD BUSINESS

PARTNERS, THEY CAN DEPEND ON

EACH OTHER.

SO THEY JUST--THEY JUST KEPT THE

GOLDEN HOUSE.

THE ONLY MAN AT PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING HISTORY TOOK ALL OUT

WITH THE BELT, TOOK ALL OUT A

WINNER, TO RETIRE AS CHAMPION.

VERNE GAGNE DID THE BEST HE

COULD TO PROTECT THE BUSINESS.

HE WORKED VERY HARD TO KEEP IT

WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE BOYS,

AND THE ROPES OF THE RING, AND

DIDN'T TELL THE FANS, YOU KNOW,

THE SECRETS OF THE INDUSTRY.

SO IN THAT RESPECT--I HAD A LOT

OF RESPECT FOR VERNE GAGNE.

[INDISTINCT]

THE ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION

OF THE WORLD, VERNE GAGNE.

[CROWD CHEERING]

GAGNE.

MY FATHER HAD THIS VISION, HE

LOVED WRESTLING.

AMATEUR WRESTLING, PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING, AND HE WANTED TO

BRING IT TO THE FOREFRONT OF

SOCIETY.

HE HAD WITH THIS TV SHOW, HAD

THESE TREMENDOUS RATINGS, BUT

NOW, LET'S GET IT OUT FOR THE

NETWORKS.

WE'RE WRESTLING IN CHICAGO,

KNEW--MET PHIL DONAHUE AND PHIL

AND HIM LIKED ONE ANOTHER AND

WANTED TO DO A SHOW ABOUT

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

SO WE HAD AN HOUR PROGRAM WITH

HIM, THEY BROUGHT JESSE VENTURA

AND ADRIAN ADONIS IN, AND JIM

AND MYSELF TO GIVE HIM A TAG

TEAM MATCH.

AND THEN ADRIAN AND I WRESTLED A

SINGLE MATCH.

ACTUALLY, THE PHIL DONAHUE SHOW

WAS THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF HULK

HOGAN.

I KNEW I COULDN'T COME BACK

TO THE WWWE AT THE TIME WHICH

WAS RAN BY VINCE, SR. BECAUSE I

WAS FIRED.

AND I DIDN'T THINK I WOULD EVER

BE ABLE TO WORK HERE AT THE WWE

AGAIN, SO I SEND SOME PICTURES

FROM THE ROCKY MOVIE I JUST

FINISHED, THE STILL PICTURES TO

THE AWA PROMOTION IN MINNESOTA.

JUST AS I'VE--I PUT WRESTLING

BUT I'D LIKE TO GIVE IT ONE MORE

CHANCE AS I COME INTO THE AWA,

AND THAT'S ABOUT THE WORLD TO

YOU.

AND SO I THINK I HAD ASKED GREG

TO REFER A GUY NAMED HULK HOGAN.

I HAD MET HULK AT

[INDISTINCT]

SHEA STADIUM IN NEW YORK AND HE

WRESTLED ANDRE THE GIANT THAT

NIGHT.

AND AFTER THE MATCH WAS HE SAID,

YOU KNOW, I JUST WOULD SET HIM

IN THE HALLWAY IN THE HOTEL AND

I SAID, "WHAT'S THE MATTER, BIG

MAN?"

AND HE SAYS, "I CAN'T MAKE IT IN

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING."

I SAID, "SURE YOU CAN.

YOU GOT A LOT OF POTENTIAL.

YOU JUST NEED--YOU NEED SOME

HELP DEVELOPING WHO YOU ARE."

AND I SAID, "WHY DON'T YOU CALL

MY FATHER AND COME AND WORK FOR

THE AWA?"

HULK HOGAN ARRIVED ON THE

SCENE IN THE EARLY '80S.

WHEN I GOT TO THE AWA, VERNE

GAGNE WANTED ME TO BE A BAD GUY.

AND LUSCIOUS JOHNNY VALIANT

WAS GONNA BE HIS MANAGER.

FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS,

I HAVE TALKED WITH LUSCIOUS

JOHNNY VALIANT.

HE HAS TOLD ME SO MUCH ABOUT

THIS MAN.

HE IS FROM NEW YORK CITY, HE IS

HULK HOGAN, A BIG ONE INDEED,

JUST EXACTLY HOW BIG, I'LL LET

YOU EXPLAIN, HULK?

LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING,

FROM NOW ON, PEE WEE, YOU CAN

CALL ME MR. SKYSCRAPER.

I AM THE BIGGEST MAN IN

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, AND THIS

ARM RIGHT HERE, 24 INCHES OF NEW

YORK CITY AND VENICE BEACH,

CALIFORNIA MIXED TOGETHER.

THE BIGGEST ARM IN THE WORLD, I

WILL TAKE ON ALL COMERS.

WELL, ALL OF A SUDDEN WHEN

HOGAN SHOWED UP, HE WAS--I MEAN

JUST IDOLIZED BY THE FANS.

HE GOT OVER LIKE A MILLION

DOLLARS.

THAT WAS ONE OF HIS FIRST BREAKS

HE GOT IN MINNESOTA HERE.

HE'D LOOK GOOD AND--BUT HE HAD

NO AMATEUR BACKGROUND

WHATSOEVER.

HE DIDN'T HAVE A FEEL FOR WHO

HE WAS OR WHAT HIS CHARACTER

WAS.

AND THAT'S WHAT VERNE BROUGHT

OUT HOGAN.

WHEN YOU'RE OUT OF ROLL AND

WHEN YOU THINK POSITIVE,

SOMETIMES OVERCONFIDENCE CAN

WORK FOR YOU.

AND I KNOW I'M GONNA WIN THAT

BATTLE ROLL, AND I KNOW SOONER

OR LATER, MY TIME IS GONNA COME.

PUT HIM THE NTH GUYS THAT WE

THOUGHT HE COULD BEAT, AND HE

GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN THOSE

MATCHES.

YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FACE THE

LIKES OF A VERY COLORFUL AND

FLAMBOYANT YOUNG MAN, GOOD

WRESTLER INDEED, AND ROCK AND

ROLLER, BUCK ZUMHOFE.

ROCK AND ROLL WHO?

BUCK ZUMHOFE.

BUCK ZUMHOFE?

YOU KNOW THE ONE THING THAT I

GOT FROM VERNE WAS HOW TO STAY

STRONG IN THE RING.

AND HIS WORDS WERE, "DON'T EVEN

GO OFF YOUR FEET."

HE TOOK TO IT THEN AND HE

THEN BECAME REALLY HULK HOGAN.

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SCARED

OF ME, GENE, THEY'RE SCARED THAT

HULKAMANIA IS STILL RUNNING

WILD.

I CAME IN THE DENVER TOWN WITH

OF THESE 24 INCH [INDISTINCT]

AND I PROVED THAT HULKAMANIA'S

STILL RUNNING WILD.

ONCE I BECAME THE GOOD GUY IN

THE AWA, THE MOVIE KICKS IN

AFTER THAT AND THERE WAS JUST A

HUGE AMOUNT OF MOMENTUM, SO

VERNE GAGNE WAS A VERY LUCKY MAN

AND THE TIMING WAS EVERYTHING.

HE WAS THERE FOR THE TITLE WAVE.

WHEN HULK HOGAN '82 AND '83,

HE HAD BROUGHT THE STANDARD OF

ATTENDANCE AND MONEY THAT THE

AWA HAD MADE, TO A POINT THAT IT

WAS THE HIGHEST THAT EVER BEEN.

THE ONE THING THAT VERNE

GAGNE REALIZED RIGHT BEFORE I

DID WAS THE AMOUNT OF REVENUE

THAT HULK HOGAN COULD GENERATE

IF HE WAS SHOWCASED IN A PROPER

MANNER.

I MEAN HE WAS MONEY IN THE

BANK FROM DAY ONE HERE.

DURING THE EARLY '80S, AWA

WAS ROCKING.

THEY WERE PRINTING MONEY, THEY

WERE SELLING OUT ARENAS.

I MEAN EVERYTHING THAT THEY DID

WAS SUCCESSFUL AND LIFE WAS

GREAT.

EVERYBODY WAS, YOU KNOW, OUT OF

VERY HIGH NOTE.

HE BECAME A STAR HERE AND

EARNED HIMSELF SOME TITLE

MATCHES WITH NICK BOCKWINKEL.

EVERY YOUNG WRESTLER COMING

UP TODAY WOULD LIKE TO GET--A

WIN AGAINST THE CHAMPION.

WITH HOGAN, I LIKE THE FACT

THAT HE WAS THE CROWD FAVORITE

BECAUSE THAT JUST MADE HIM WORK

HARDER AND JUST MADE ME WORK

HARDER.

SO THEY HAD A TITLE MATCH AT

ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA, SOLD OUT.

THEY HAD 18,000,.THAT'S A BIG

CENTER AND A BUILDING NEXT DOOR,

WE--CLOSED CIRCUIT THE MATCH

OVER THERE.

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I THINK

THEY DID PROBABLY AROUND THREE

OR FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS

IN REVENUE BETWEEN WHAT THEY

SOLD AT THE ARENA AND WHAT THEY

SOLD CLOSED CIRCUIT NEXT DOOR AT

THE AUDITORIUM.

IT WAS A BIG DEAL AND 400 GRAND

BACK IN THOSE DAYS, A LOT OF

MONEY.

WELL, VERNE GAGNE HAD BEEN

TRYING TO GET ME TO TAKE THE

BELT FOR QUITE SOMETIME AND I

WOULD HAVE LOVE TO IN THE

WORLD'S CHAMPION BUT I HAD OTHER

THINGS.

I WAS DOING SUCH AS GOING BACK

AND FORTH TO JAPAN.

HOGAN CLEARLY HAD BEAT

BOCKWINKEL.

HERE'S HULK HOGAN.

HERE IS THE LEG SMASH.

HERE IS THE COVER.

HERE IS THE COUNT, ONE, TWO,

THREE.

IT'S ALL OVER.

HULK HOGAN HAS DONE IT.

HULK HOGAN IS THE CHAMPION.

BUT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A

TECHNICALITY.

AND I'VE JUST BEEN INFORMED

BY THE REFEREE THAT PRESIDENT

BLACKBURN HAS HAVE THE OPINION

THAT HULK HOGAN THREW NICK

BOCKWINKEL OVER THE TOP ROPE,

BECAUSE OF THAT THE HULK IS

DISQUALIFIED AND THE BELT

REMAINS WITH NICK BOCKWINKEL.

OVER THE TOP I WENT, HE'S

DQ'D.

SHAME.

THE TITLE DID NOT CHANGE.

KEPT IN NICK BOCKWINKEL'S

POSSESSION AND THE FANS WERE

LIVID.

AGAIN SO VERY, VERY CLOSE.

THAT REALLY SET HULK OFF.

I MEAN HIS WHOLE GOAL WAS TO WIN

THAT AWA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP AND

WHEN HE DIDN'T WIN AT THAT TIME,

IT WAS--IT WAS A HUGE

DISAPPOINTMENT FOR HIM.

VERNE GAGNE WANTED

EVERYTHING.

IF I TOOK THE BELT THEN HE WANT

MY MONEY FROM JAPAN AND HE

WANTED PERCENTAGES OF OTHER

THINGS I WAS DOING LIKE SELLING

T-SHIRTS AND STUFF, SO, WHEN I'M

AT SUPER SUNDAY, YOU KNOW, VERNE

HAD BASICALLY MADE HIS MIND UP

THAT I WAS WINNING THE MATCH AND

WHEN THEY CAME TO ME WITH

FINISH, YOU KNOW, VERNE SAID,

"YOU'RE WEARING THE BELT PLUS,

YOU KNOW, I'M GETTING A PARTY IN

JAPAN."

I SAID, "NO, YOU'RE NOT."

AND, SO, WE WENT BACK AND FORTH

AND WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND I

THINK THAT WAS BASICALLY THE

DECLINE OF VERNE GAGNE AND MY

RELATIONSHIP.

I KNOW HE WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO

WIN THE TITLE.

YOU KNOW YOU NEEDED PEOPLE IN

THERE THOUGH BECAUSE OF THE WAY

THE PEOPLE IN THE AWA, THE FANS

PERCEIVED IT.

YOU HAD TO BE PRETTY DAMN GOOD

IN THE RING TO BE ABLE TO CARRY

A MATCH, YOU KNOW, 20, 30

MINUTES AND HULK WAS ALMOST TO

THE POINT WHERE HE COULD DO

THAT, NOT QUITE.

WE REALLY DIDN'T NEED HIM TO

BE CHAMPION.

HE'S TRYING TO GET THE CHAMPION.

"OH, GOD.

HOGAN'S GONNA GET THE SHOT OF

THE TITLE TONIGHT."

WELL--AND EVERYBODY IS EXCITED

ABOUT IT BUT THEY DON'T GET IT.

SO, WE PUT IT IN THAT WAY AND

WE'D DO IT AGAIN IN ANOTHER FULL

HOUSE.

HE REALLY DISAPPOINTED THE

FANS BECAUSE HE CANCELLED A SHOW

IN ST. PAUL CIVIC CENTER MADE

THE PEOPLE WAIT AN EXTRA MONTH

BEFORE THE MONTHLY SHOW USUALLY

CAME, DOUBLED THE TICKET PRICES,

EVERYBODY EXPECTED A TITLE

CHANGE AND WITH THE DEMANDS HE

PUT ON ME, I COULD NOT LET THAT

HAPPEN.

SO, HE BASICALLY STARTED RUINING

THE RELATIONSHIP THAT HE HAD

WITH ME AND THE FANS AT THAT

POINT.

YOU KNOW, EVEN BACK THEN WAS

FUNNY AS YOU HEARD ABOUT HIS

MERCHANDISE SALES, WHICH WAS

SOMETHING NEW AT THAT TIME.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE

DID A LITTLE BIT OF MERCHANDISE

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS ALL OF A

SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, TO THE

WRESTLERS.

IT'S JUST LIKE, "WOW.

THIS IS A NEW AVENUE FOR

REVENUE."

MERCHANDISE WASN'T EVEN A

CONCEPT.

I ACTUALLY STARTED MAKING THE

FIRST T-SHIRTS AND HEADBANDS

WHEN WE WERE IN THE AWA AND THAT

WAS ONE OF OUR BIG BOSS BECAUSE

WHEN I WENT TO JAPAN FOR A FEW

WEEKS, VERNE SOLD A TON OF HULK

HOGAN SHIRTS AND KEPT ALL THE

PROCEEDS FOR HIS OWN PARTY FUND

AND DIDN'T GIVE HULK HOGAN HIS

PROPER SPLIT.

AND WE HAD A BIG ARGUMENT OVER

THAT.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE FINAL STRAWS

THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK.

I MEAN IT WASN'T LIKE GOING

IN TODAY AND DOING--OR WHAT ARE

THEY DO IN LONDON, A MILLION

DOLLARS WITH THE MERCHANDISING

IN ONE NIGHT?

YOU MIGHT DO MAYBE $5,000 IN

HOGAN SHIRTS AND A THOUSAND

DOLLARS IN HIGH FLYER SHIRTS.

SO, THAT TIME, THEY TOOK, YOU

KNOW, THEIR [INDISTINCT]

YOU GOT YOUR PERCENT, I MEAN,

THERE WASN'T--THERE WASN'T THAT

MUCH TO GET.

HOGAN WASN'T GONNA TOLERATE

ANYTHING LESS THAN 50 PERCENT OF

THE PROFIT THAT WAS GENERATED BY

HIS CHARACTER IN TERMS OF

MERCHANDISE.

SO, VERNE GAGNE MISSED THE BOAT

ON [INDISTINCT]

BEING ABLE TO CAPITALIZE ON

HULK HOGAN.

IF YOU HAD LEFT ENOUGH MONEY ON

THE TABLE, IT WOULD HAVE

HAPPENED.

HE DIDN'T AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

THERE WAS WORD GOING AROUND

THAT HOGAN WAS DISGRUNTLED.

AND I THINK AS A RESULT OF

IT, HE MADE THE JUMP BACK TO THE

WWE.

WELL, IT WAS TOUGH LEAVING

THE AWA BECAUSE I JUST SAT

AROUND IN A HOTEL ROOM WITH

VERNE GAGNE AND NICK BOCKWINKEL

AND HELP THEM BOOK THE WHOLE

NEXT MONTH OF BOOKING AS WITH ME

IN A STEEL CAGE ALL AROUND THE

TERRITORY WITH BOCKWINKEL.

WHEN WE'RE BACK TO MINNESOTA

AFTER BEING ON THE ROAD A COUPLE

OF DAYS WITH THOSE GUYS, I GOT A

CALL FROM VINCE MCMAHON JR. AND

HE HAD AN OFFER I COULDN'T

REFUSE.

HE FLEW IN MINNESOTA.

WE STAYED UP UNTIL 5:00 IN THE

MORNING TALKING.

WE SHOOK HANDS AND THE REST IS

HISTORY.

SO, IT WAS TOUGH TO WALK AWAY

FROM VERNE GAGNE IN THE AWA

BECAUSE I WAS BOOKED IN A LOT OF

THE MAIN EVENTS.

AND THE MAIN EVENTERS WERE

OBLIGATED TO GIVE A SIX WEEKS

NOTICE WHICH ALLOW SIX WEEKS TO

CHANGE STORY LINES ON TELEVISION

AND LET SOMEONE ELSE BE ANOINTED

THE MAIN EVENTERS.

BEFORE HE LEFT, HE CUT ALL OF

HIS INTERVIEWS.

SO, WE HAVE HIM IN THE CAN,

BUILDING UP TO THE MATCHES

BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, YOU WERE

SYNDICATING YOUR PROGRAM, SO,

YOU HAVE TO GET--THE SHOW IS OUT

A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS AHEAD OF

TIME AND IT WAS LIKE THE 18TH OR

19TH OF DECEMBER, MY FATHER GOT

A TELEGRAM FROM TAMPA, FLORIDA

THAT SAID HOGAN WAS NOT COMING

BACK BUT MY FATHER AND EDDIE

GRAHAM ALWAYS WERE PLAYING JOKES

ON ONE ANOTHER.

AND HE SAW AT TAMPA, FLORIDA, HE

FIGURED EDDIE HAD SENT IT TO

HIM.

HE SAID [INDISTINCT]

EDDIE.

HE THINKS YOU'RE GONNA GET ME ON

THIS [INDISTINCT]

TORE IT UP AND THREW IT AWAY,

GOT TO CHRISTMAS NIGHT, NO

HOGAN.

I CALLED HULK AT HOME.

I SAID, "HULK, YOU GOT A MATCH.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"

"WELL, I'M GOING TO NEW YORK,"

AND I SAID, "WELL, WHEN?"

"WELL, IN JANUARY."

I SAID, "WELL, FULFILL YOUR

COMMITMENTS AND THEN GO."

[INDISTINCT]

AND SAY TO MY FACE, "HEY, I'M

GONNA LEAVE."

WELL, I'M BEING PAID MORE NOT

TO BE THERE.

THAT'S THE STORY YOU GAVE ME.

I'VE ALWAYS ENCOURAGED TALENT

TO FINISH OUT THEIR DATES, YOU

KNOW, WITH PROMOTERS AND SO

FORTH, KEEPING THEIR WORD.

I DON'T REMEMBER, YOU KNOW,

WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS THE CASE

WHEN I WAS WITH HOGAN AND TRYING

TO ENCOURAGE HIM TO COME WITH

US.

I'M SURE IT HAD, YOU KNOW, A

NEGATIVE EFFECT, YOU KNOW, ON

VERNE'S TERRITORY, NO QUESTION

ABOUT THAT, ESPECIALLY IF HOGAN

HAD BEEN ADVERTISED.

IT WAS--IT WAS TOO BAD IT

CAME TO THAT BECAUSE HULK WAS

DEVELOPED HERE, BECAME THE HULK

HERE AND WAS ABLE THEN TO TAKE

IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL WITH VINCE

JR.

BECAUSE HE WAS WELL-TRAINED

ENOUGH TO DO WHAT HE HAD TO DO

TO DRAW PEOPLE AND HE DID THAT

ALL HERE.

DIDN'T--MCMAHON DIDN'T HAVE TO

DO IT, I DID IT.

TO LOSE HOGAN WAS HUGE FOR

THE AWA.

YOU TAKE A TOP STAR LIKE THAT

AND HAVE WALKED OUT ON YOU

BECAUSE OF DECISIONS, THAT'S

SMART.

PRIOR TO HOGAN LEAVING US,

CBS HAD TO MY FATHER AND WANTED

TO A BIG SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIAL

ON CBS.

WHEN WE LOST HOGAN, WE LOST

THEM.

HOGAN WAS THE HARBINGER AND

ONCE HOGAN CAME HERE, WHICH WAS

THE TOP DOG IN THE AWA, SO MANY

FROM THE AWA WANTED TO FOLLOW

WHAT HOGAN'S FOOTSTEPS.

I WASN'T TOO FAR BEYOND HULK

HOGAN.

WE ARRIVED HERE IN THE WWE

SIMULTANEOUSLY.

SO, I DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE

CARNAGE THAT WAS LEFT THE NIGHT

IN THE BACK AND THE MINNEAPOLIS,

MINNESOTA.

GENE, ALL OF A SUDDEN ON A

SUNDAY NIGHT, WE DO--WE DID OUR

INTERVIEWS ON MONDAY MORNING.

GENE WAS OUT HEAD ANNOUNCER, OUR

20 SYNDICATED PROGRAMS WE DID

FIVE INTERVIEWS ON EVERY

PROGRAM.

MONDAY MORNINGS WERE SLATED TO

DO ALL THOSE INTERVIEWS, PUT HIM

IN THE SHOWS AND GET HIM OUT.

HE CALLS LATE SUNDAY NIGHT LIKE

11:00, "HEY, I'M GOING TO NEW

YORK."

I SAID, "WELL, GENE, DO THE

INTERVIEWS TOMORROW THEN GO."

WE'RE STUCK.

WE CAN'T GET A ANNOUNCER THIS

QUICK.

WELL THEY'RE PAYING ME MORE TO

GO UP THERE.

MY SON, GARY, WHO WAS A

PRODUCER AND A REFEREE OF--WENT

TO--WITH HULK AND SOME OF THE

GUYS TO NEW YORK AND AS THINGS

KIND OF QUITE IT DOWN HERE, FOR

ME, I ALSO WENT TO NEW YORK.

AND EVERYONE OF THEM, JESSE

VENTURA, CUT ALL HIS INTERVIEWS

FOR WINNIPEG, THEY'RE ALL IN THE

BOX, THE LAST ONE NEVER SHOWED

UP FOR THE MATCH.

EVERYBODY THAT WENT TO NEW YORK

DID THAT TO US.

THE ONLY ONE WAS BOBBY HEENAN.

BOBBY FULFILLED HIS ENTIRE

COMMITMENTS BEFORE HE LEFT.

IT WAS A GOING DOWN

[INDISTINCT]

BECAUSE THEY LOST HOGAN AND,

THEY LOST GENE OKERLUND, AND

JESSE.

SO, WHAT IT ENDED UP DOING

WAS HURTING YOUR CREDIBILITY AND

THEN PRETTY SOON, VINCE HAD MORE

AWA STARS THAN WE HAD, AND THEN

HE WOULD COME IN AND RUN DENVER

THE NIGHT BEFORE WE WOULD WITH

MORE OF THE AWA PEOPLE THAN WHAT

HAD.

WHY DIDN'T YOU SIGN THE

CONTACTS?

IT WASN'T WHEN VINCE BOUGHT HIM

OFF AND MISSED HIS OPPORTUNITY.

THEY ALL SAW GREENER PASTURES

IF YOU WILL.

IT WAS VERY SIMPLE.

IT WAS CALLED MONEY AND AN

OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY WITH

SOMEBODY THAT WAS GONNA HAVE

GREAT PRODUCTION VALUES.

THEY WILL GONNA BE STREAMLINED

AND IT JUST HAD THAT HI-TECH

FEEL TO IT.

AT THIS POINT, VINCE JR. IS

AN ENIGMA.

HE HAS NOT YET ESTABLISHED WITH

EVERYBODY ELSE, WHO HE IS, WHAT

HE IS, HOW IS GOING TO DO THINGS

NOW THAT HE'S TAKING OVER FROM

HIS DAD.

VINCE JR. HAD BOUGHT THE

PLACE FROM HIS FATHER AND THE

SCUTTLEBUTT EVERYWHERE WAS THIS

KID IS GOING--HE'S GONNA BREAK

ALL THE RULES.

THERE WERE EVEN STORIES THAT

VINCE SR. CALLED A NUMBER OF

PEOPLE WHO HE RESPECTED QUITE

WELL, ONE OF THEM BEING WALLY

KARBO, THAT THE KIDS ARE GONNA

TAKE OVER THE BUSINESS AND I

JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW HE'S GOT

SOME BIG PLANS.

AT ONE TIME, HE'D CAME AND

MET WITH MY FATHER AND I AND

ASKED MY FATHER IF HE WOULD BE

WILLING TO SELL OUT AND HE SAID,

"WELL, VINCE, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT

A LOT YEARS INTO THIS AND IF THE

MONEY WAS RIGHT, YES, I WOULD DO

IT BUT YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, I

HAVE PARTNERS IN ALL THESE

CITES.

I THINK THAT VERNE WAS VERY

WILLING SELL AWA BUT HE HAD TO

GET HIS HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST

WITH OTHER PROMOTERS AND

CONTRACTUAL RIGHTS THAT HE

DIDN'T HAVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW

WHAT HE WOULD HAVE ASKED FOR AS

A PRICE TAG AND I'M SURE IT

WOULD HAVE BEEN HEFTY BUT HE

NEVER HAVE REALLY THE

OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE AFTER HE GOT

HIS DUCKS IN A ROW, THEN WE

BECAME COMPETITORS.

NEVER HEARD FROM HIM AGAIN

UNTIL ALL THIS HAPPENED, STARTED

HAPPENING IN DECEMBER, THAT WAS

AUGUST OF '83.

NOW DECEMBER OF '83, THAT'S WHEN

THE BIG PUSH CAME AND VINCE

STARTED GRABBING THE TALENT FROM

ALL THE DIFFERENT TERRITORIES.

HE STARTED GOING IN AND OFFERING

MONEY FOR OUR TELEVISION TIME

SLOTS THAT WE'VE BUILT UP FOR

YEARS AND YEARS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WEREN'T TOO

HAPPY WITH HIM.

UP TO THIS DAY, A LOT PEOPLE

WEREN'T.

WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT, YOU

KNOW, THAT THAT'S REALLY UNFAIR

OF WHAT'S UNFAIR ABOUT

ATTEMPTING TO APPROACH A

TELEVISION STAGE AND, YOU KNOW

WHAT VERNE'S TELEVISION SHOW AND

SAYING, "HEY, MINE IS BETTER,

YOU KNOW, I WANT TO TAKE VERNE'S

SLOT."

I DON'T THINK THAT'S UNETHICAL

AT ALL.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S KNOWN AS

COMPETITION.

AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH

THIS OLD TIME PROMOTERS, VERNE

INCLUDED, WAS THAT THEY NEVER

HAD ANY COMPETITION.

THEY REALLY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO

DEAL WITH COMPETITION.

AT THAT NIGHT, I GET ALONG

WELL AND I [INDISTINCT]

LOOK UP THERE FOR HIM A LOT

TIMES IN THEIR AREA AND--I DON'T

KNOW WHAT A--WHAT YOUNG VINCE

HAD IN MIND THAT TO DO IT.

I MEAN, WHAT COULD HE

[INDISTINCT]

BY IT.

IT DIDN'T GAIN A FRIEND.

EVERY PHILOSOPHY THAT VERNE

HAD WORKED AND WAS SUCCESSFUL

AND MADE HIM A MILLIONAIRE BUT

WHEN THIS YOUNG KID COMES UP

FROM A MAN THAT VERNE RESPECTED,

WHO WAS VINCE SR. AND HE'S GONNA

BREAK EVERY RULE IN THIS

INDUSTRY.

ON TOP OF THAT, HE'S GONNA HAVE

CHARACTERS THAT ARE ALMOST

CARTOON CHARACTERS.

HE'S GONNA TELL YOU THAT IS NOT

A REAL SPORTING EVENT.

HE'S SHOULD BE SHOT.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

THIS WILL NEVER LAST.

IT WILL NEVER WORK.

AND VERNE USED TO SAY, "HOW

COME HE'S RUNNING IT NIGHT

TIME?"

WELL, I MEAN YOU'RE GONNA

COMPARE THIS TO A GAS STATION

AND YOU CAN OPERATE A GAS

STATION ANYTIME.

THAT'S WHAT BUSINESS IS, YOU

DON'T LIKE IT, MOVE TO CUBA.

I WAS EXPANDING, YOU KNOW,

AND MINNEAPOLIS WAS A STOP A

LONG THE WAY.

IT WASN'T THAT I WAS COMING

AFTER VERNE, YOU KNOW, AND I

WASN'T--BUT VERNE WAS

RETALIATORY AND I'M NOT SO SURE

I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AS WELL

ALTHOUGH I THINK I'D LIKE TO BE

SMARTER THAN THAT.

VINCE WAS COMING INTO HIS

BACKYARD AND SO HE STARTED GOING

TO VINCE' BACKYARD.

BUT VERNE WAS RETALIATORY AND

HE SAID, "HEY, LOOK IF THE KID'S

GONNA, YOU KNOW, COME TO

MINNEAPOLIS, I'M GONNA GO TO NEW

YORK."

THAT'S A MISTAKE.

IF I WAS VERNE I WOULD

CONCENTRATE ON THINGS I HAD AND

MAKE THEM SECURE AND TIGHT BUT

HE WAS--I DON'T KNOW, HE GOT--HE

MUST HAVE SHAKE--HE MUST HAVE

SHAKEN UP A BIT.

PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS

EXPECTED VERNE, THE GREAT VERNE

GAGNE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I MEAN, THIS PUNK KID WAS COMING

INTO HIS TERRITORY, WHICH WAS A

NO-NO.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU

GOING TO DO ABOUT IT VERNE.

AND WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

ABOUT A MARKET LIKE NEW YORK AND

YOU'RE COMING TO BOOK NEW YORK

YOUR CHANCES OF SUCCESS ARE NOT

SO GREAT.

VINCE'S PHILOSOPHIES' TOTALLY

DIFFERENT THAN MY FATHER.

I MEAN, THEY'RE NIGHT AND DAY

APART.

MY FATHER WAS--EVERYTHING WAS

ABOUT ATHLETICS AND ATHLETES IN

COMPETING.

BIG CONTRIBUTOR TO THE

OLYMPIC EFFORT, FORMER WORLD

CHAMPION VERNE GAGNE.

JIM, CONGRATULATIONS, WE'RE

SO PROUD OF YOU AND OUR

MINNESOTA TEAM AND TO THIS GUY

RIGHT HERE BRAD RHEINGANS WHO

BROUGHT THOSE THREE HEAVYWEIGHTS

IN THERE TO ALL MEDAL WINNERS.

TWO GOLDS AND A SILVER WAS

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC, PROUD OF

EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM.

VINCE' FLAMBOYANT SHOWBIZ,

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT WITH

WRESTLING TO MAKE IT WORK, WE

KNOW THAT AND WE HAD THAT BUT WE

STILL--MY FATHER WAS VERY

CONSERVATIVE IN THE WAY HE RAN

HIS WRESTLING.

WWE HAD REALLY MADE A BIG

MOVE, YOU KNOW, TO NATIONAL

SYNDICATION AND NATIONAL CABLE

TELEVISION, KIND OF, WAS TEARING

DOWN THE WALLS, IF YOU WILL, THE

REGIONAL, YOU KNOW, WRESTLING

PROMOTER, YOU KNOW, MODEL AND A

LOT OF PROMOTERS, YOU KNOW, WERE

SUFFERING AS A RESULT OF THAT,

NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WAS VERNE

GAGNE.

BUT I DON'T THINK THEY

ADMITTED IT TO THEMSELVES.

IF THEY HAD ADMITTED IT TO

THEMSELVES AND SO, "WHOA, WE

CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN.

WE'LL GET US ANOTHER HOOK WE'LL

ATTEMPT TO GET ANOTHER HOOK OR

ANYBODY ELSE IF WE PUSHED THEM.

WE'RE GONNA LOCK THEM UP, YOU

KNOW.

I THINK THEY WERE STILL UNDER

THE MINDSET AT THAT TIME THAT

YOU WERE VERY LUCKY IF YOU WERE

IN THE AWA.

WE HAD A LOT OF GOOD GUYS

AROUND.

WE HAVE--WE DIDN'T REALLY NEED

HIM.

WE'VE [INDISTINCT]

BEFORE HOGAN, WE WERE DRAW--WE

WERE FILLING HOUSES UP.

AT THE END OF THAT YEAR THE

AWA HAD HIT IN THIS AREA AND IT

HAD IT'S BIGGEST YEAR EVER AFTER

THE GUYS HAD LEFT, SO, YOU KNOW,

THEY STILL AND THE CORE OF JERRY

BLACKWELL AND MAD DOG AND

CRUSHER, YOU KNOW, SO IT WAS NOT

GOOD TO LOSE A LOT OF TALENT

LIKE WE HAD BUT, YOU KNOW, IT

WAS NOT FELT IMMEDIATELY.

I THINK LULLED VERNE INTO A

SENSE OF COMPLACENCY.

HE WAS PRETTY COMPLACENT IN

WHAT HE WAS DOING AND HE SHOULD

BE BECAUSE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, 25,

30 YEARS OF SUCCESS BUT WITH THE

ONSLAUGHT OF CABLE TELEVISION

AND BIG TIME WRESTLING AND THE

WWE COMING IN AND DOING WHAT

THEY DID, IT DRASTICALLY CHANGED

VERNE'S WRESTLING LEAGUE OR

WRESTLING PROMOTION.

IT RAN OUT STARS LIKE BRUISER

BRODY.

I'VE BEEN BROUGHT HERE FOR A

REASON AND BEFORE I FALL OVER, I

KNOW EVERYBODY'S GONNA KNOW MY

BUSINESS JUST LIKE I KNOW IT.

NOTHING.

AND IT WAS THE BEST YEARS FROM

NOW.

IT DIDN'T MEAN NOTHING.

ONE WEEK YOU HAVE ANDRE AND

THE HULK HOGAN AND NEXT WEEK YOU

GOT ROOSTER GRIFFIN GRIFFIN.

THE HOUSE GOES FROM HERE TO

HERE.

YOU GOT NO TALENT.

YOU GOT TO TAKE OF YOUR TALENT.

AND DURING [INDISTINCT]

AND HE HAD RICK MARTEL AS THE

WORLD'S CHAMPION THEN.

AND HERE IS A PLANK POWER

BODY SLAM, A COUNT OF ONE, A

COUNT OF TWO, A COUNT OF THREE

AND THE NEW HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION

OF THE WORLD OUT OF QUEBEC CITY,

CANADA IS RICKY MARTEL.

AND SO NO DISRESPECT TO RICK,

HE'S A PHENOMENAL COMPETITOR AND

PERFORMER.

I JUST NEVER THOUGHT HE WAS

GOING TO BE THE ANSWER AS

THE--AS AWA CHAMP.

RICKY MARTEL, THE NEW

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE

WORLD.

AWA PRESIDENT STANLEY BLACKBURN

WHAT A BOMBSHELL THAT WAS.

I THOUGHT IT WAS THE GREATEST

MATCH I'VE EVER SEEN IN AT LEAST

IN 40 YEARS.

IT WAS FANTASTIC.

IT WAS REALLY THE GREATEST.

BUT WHAT THE AWA SEEMED TO BE

DOING THAT TIME WAS GRASPING THE

STRAWS AND TRYING THINGS TO

IGNITE A SPARK AND RECREATE AN

INTEREST IN THEIR BRAND.

BUT AS THINGS BEGAN TO

CRUMBLE FOR VERNE IN AWA MID

'80S, LATE '80S, YOU KNOW, VERNE

HAD TO RELY ON THE PEOPLE THAT

HE COULD RELY ON.

CERTAINLY, GREG GAGNE, HIS SON

AND A SMALL CORE OF WRESTLERS

THAT VERNE TRUSTED.

HE'S GOT HIS DADDY HIDING OUT

BEHIND THE RINGSIDE CHAIR.

I NEVER WORKED IN THE AWA BUT

I--I'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, DOZENS OF

FRIEND AND BUSINESS

ACQUAINTANCES THAT I HAVE AND A

LOT OF GUYS FELT LIKE VERNE

TRIED A LITTLE TOO HARD TO GET

GREG ON THAT MAIN EVENT LEVEL

WHERE GREG COULD BE VERNE'S

PREDECESSOR.

GREG, OF COURSE, ALSO WITH

DESIRES ON THE HEAVYWEIGHT

CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD, A

BELT WHICH IS FATHER HELD FOR SO

MANY, MANY YEARS.

THERE WAS ALWAYS A LOT

CONVERSATION ABOUT GREG'S ROLE

IN AWA AS RELATED TO, YOU KNOW,

BEING A PERFORMER, BEING A TAG

TEAM CHAMPION AND A WORLD

CHAMPION.

GREG WAS OUTSTANDING IN TAG

TEAMS BUT GREG NEVER HAD THE

INDIVIDUAL CHARISMA THAT HIS DAD

HAD.

GREG IS UNDER A LOT PRESSURE

THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE.

MYSELF COMING FROM A WRESTLING

FAMILY, EVERY TIME YOU STEP IN

THAT RING YOU NOT ONLY REPRESENT

YOUR OWN SELF AND YOUR OWN

PROFESSIONAL PRIDE BUT THAT OF

YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR FATHER.

AND GREG WRESTLED FOR YEARS AND,

SO DID MINE AND HE HAS THAT

FAMILY PRIDE AND REPUTATION TO

DO AND PROTECT.

I'M THINKING OF WRESTLERS

THAT--NOW, THE ONLY REASON GREG

GAGNE IS EVEN IN THE RING IS

BECAUSE HE'S VERNE'S SON.

AND THEN YOU KNOW WHAT,

THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE TO A DEGREE

BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS

VERNE KNEW HE COULD TRUST GREG.

VERNE KNEW HE COULD DEPEND ON

GREG.

GREG WAS A GREAT PERFORMER.

DOWN HE GOES, GAGNE, NICE AND

SMOOTH.

I ACTUALLY THINK--NO, I

ACTUALLY KNOW THAT GREG HAD A

BETTER GRASP OF WHERE THE

BUSINESS WAS AT THAT TIME AND

WHERE IT WAS GOING.

EVENTUALLY, SOMEDAY BRODY

WE'LL GONNA FIND OUT WHAT KIND

OF A MAN YOU ARE AND HOW GOOD

YOU REALLY ARE.

ONCE THERE WERE OTHER

WRESTLING PROGRAMS COMING IN

THAT WERE MODERNIZING, THAT DID

HAVE ROCK AND ROLL, THAT, YOU

KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO REACH A

YOUNGER DEMOGRAPH, A YOUNGER

AUDIENCE.

THE BUSINESS STARTED PASSING

VERNE BY IN MY VIEW.

I DON'T THINK HE WAS PASSING

GREG BY BUT HIS FATHER WAS

HOLDING HIM BACK.

AT ONE POINT MY FATHER GOT

THE PROMOTERS TOGETHER WHEN

VINCE FIRST MADE HIS MOVE TO

TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

I GOT TOGETHER WITH THE

CROCKETTS, WITH JIM BARNETT,

WITH FRITZ VON ERICH, WITH DON

OWEN, WITH BILL WATTS, FORMED

THE GROUP AND WE'RE GONNA RUN

THIS SUPER CARDS BRINGING

EVERYBODY TOGETHER AND DO A TV

SHOW OUT OF THE DIFFERENT ARENAS

ADDING THE TALENT FROM ALL THE

DIFFERENT AREAS.

WELCOME TO THE GREATEST EVENT

IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING, SUPERCLASH '85 AND

THE NIGHT OF CHAMPIONS.

I'M LARRY NELSON AND WITH ME THE

MAN THAT PUT THE WHOLE THING

TOGETHER, MR. VERNE GAGNE.

VERNE, IT WAS A TREMENDOUS

AMOUNT OF WORK BUT YOU'VE GOT TO

BE PROUD OF THE RESULTS.

WELL, I AM AND I LIKE TO

THANK EACH AND EVERYONE OF THESE

PEOPLE THAT CAME OUT HERE

TONIGHT TO WATCH THIS GREAT

EVENT, THIS GREAT SPECTACULAR

NIGHT OF WRESTLING.

THE REASON THAT THE

SUPERCLASH CAME ABOUT AND A

REASON THE AWA AND THE NWA

DECIDED TO CO-PROMOTE AN EVENT

WAS VERY SIMPLE, DESPERATION.

IT WAS TO ATTEMPT TO DERAIL THE

WWE TRAIN THAT WAS GAINING SPEED

AND BURN DOWN THE TRACKS.

I THINK THE FACT THAT VINCE

MCMAHON WAS COMING IN AND BEING

VERY SUCCESSFUL THAT SOME OF

THESE GUYS THAT ALWAYS, YOU

KNOW, SHOOK YOUR HAND BUT HAD

THE OTHER HAND BEHIND THE BACK

WE'RE NOW REALIZING WE BETTER

BUDDY UP HERE AND WE'RE IN

SERIOUS TROUBLE.

IT WAS A GOOD CONCEPT BUT

AGAIN THE EGOS OF ALL THE

DIFFERENT PROMOTERS; THEY WANTED

THEIR GUY UP HERE, THEY WANTED

THIS FOR THEIR MAIN EVENT.

IT GOT TO BE WHERE YOU COULDN'T

CONTROL IT.

YOU REALLY COULDN'T GET WHAT

NEEDED TO BE DONE TO GO AGAINST

MCMAHON.

THERE WERE STRADDLE BUNCH;

MOST OF THEM WERE FROM THE

OLD--THE OLD SCHOOL OF

PROMOTERS.

THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH GLUE OR

ENTHUSIASM FOR THEM TO

COLLECTIVELY COME TOGETHER TO DO

THIS BATTLE.

IT WASN'T SIGNIFICANT FOR ME

AND ALL THE FACT THAT ONE

OCCASION THEY WERE JOINED FORCES

BECAUSE I KNEW IT COULDN'T LAST.

DAVID CROCKETT IS IN THE

LOCKER ROOM TRYING TO SIGN SOME

OF OUR TALENT TO A CONTRACT TO

COME WITH THEM.

SO IF YOU CAN'T TRUST THE PEOPLE

YOU'RE WORKING WITH, HOW HELL IN

THE WORLD ARE YOU EVER GONNA

MAKE THAT WORK?

IT WAS DOOMED TO FAIL FROM

DAY ONE.

RICK MARTEL WITH A SERIOUS

BACK INJURY AND HE CAN'T TAKE IT

ANYMORE.

AND THEY ARE CALLING IT OFF.

NOW, WAIT A MINUTE.

UNBELIEVABLE.

CAN IT BE THAT STAN "THE LARIAT"

HANSEN HAS WON--YES, STAN "THE

LARIAT" HANSEN, THE NEW CHAMPION

OF THE AWA.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS BUT

IT CAN'T BE ANYTHING GOOD.

STAN HANSEN WAS SUPPOSED TO

WRESTLE ME ONE NIGHT IN DENVER.

AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD--AND HE

WAS--AND AT THAT POINT HE WAS

THE AWA CHAMPION.

AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD

POSSIBILITY THAT HE'S GONNA LOSE

THAT NIGHT.

AND HE LEFT--HE LEFT THE

BUILDING.

I WAS VERY SURPRISED WHEN

HANSEN BECAME THE AWA CHAMPION

BECAUSE STAN HAD ALREADY

ESTABLISHED HIMSELF.

AS A HUGE STAR IN JAPAN.

STAN WAS MAKING MORE MONEY IN

JAPAN THAN HE WOULD EVER MAKE AS

THE AWA CHAMPION AND THE SHAPE

OF THE AWA WAS IN FINANCIALLY

AND HOW THEY WERE DRAWING AT

THAT TIME.

HIS LOYALTY WAS TO HIMSELF

AND JAPAN, NOT TO ANY AMERICAN

PROMOTION.

AND SO HE LEFT THAT NIGHT BEFORE

WE WRESTLED AND TOOK THE BOUT

WITH HIM.

I'M NOT IN A BIG EGO RUSH,

I'M NOT AFTER ALL THE BRIGHT

LIGHTS AND THE LITTLE WOMEN.

I'VE GOT A BIG FAT WIFE AND NINE

KIDS AT HOME AND I GOT TO FEED

THEM.

AND ANYBODY HAD TAKES MONEY OUT

OF MY POCKET LARRY ZBYSZKO.

I'M GONNA GET HIM--GET HIM OUT

OF THERE.

YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO ANSWER

TO THIS MAN.

THIS MAN...

HE WAS MAKING MORE MONEY THAN

A LOT OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL

PLAYERS, A LOT OF GUYS IN THE

NFL, SO WHY WOULDN'T HE GO TO

JAPAN?

WHY WOULD YOU THINK HE--WHY

WOULD YOU THINK HE WOULDN'T GO?

SO IT WAS--IT KIND OF STIRRED

THE POT BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE

LAUGHED AT THE AWA PER SE.

WELL, HOW CAN YOU GUYS BE

SURPRISED?

WHICH, OF COURSE, THEY MADE A

THRILL OUT OF THE BATTLE ROYAL,

ET CETERA, ET CETERA, AND I THAT

WAS A LOVELY DAY.

THEY DID, WAS OF COURSE, TOOK

THE BOUT AWAY FROM HIM, TOOK THE

TITLE AWAY FROM HIM.

AND STAN, I GUESS, WHEN THEY

TOLD HIM CEASE TO EXIST TO

CALLING YOURSELF THE AWA

CHAMPION OR WE WILL TAKE A LEGAL

ACTION.

STAN, HE WASN'T READY FOR THAT

AND SO LITTLE SOUTH MISSISSIPPI

BOY, HE TOOK THE--ACTUALLY, RAN

OVER ME AWA BELT AND, YOU KNOW,

IT GOT A SLIGHT CURVE TO IT BUT

IT WAS--IT'S LIKE KINKING IT

THERE WERE--AND THE MUDDIED

TRACKS WHERE RIGHT ACROSS THE

BELT.

IT WAS JUST ANOTHER

INDICATION THINGS WERE AT THAT

TIMES WERE PASSING THE PROMOTION

BY.

YOU KNOW, NO MATTER HOW

DIFFICULT THINGS WERE AND I

CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH AS

BADDEST THINGS WERE IN THE AWA,

YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW THAT

WALKING THROUGH THE DOOR.

I MEAN, YOU COULD FIGURE IT OUT

WHEN THERE WAS LESS AND LESS

PEOPLE IN THE OFFICES AND THERE

WAS JUST LESS ACTIVITY.

THERE WAS NOT MUCH GOING ON, SO

IT WAS EASY TO SEE THAT, YOU

KNOW, THIS IS NOT A VIABLE

BUSINESS BUT AT THE SAME TIME,

YOU KNOW, VERNE WAS ALWAYS SO

POSITIVE.

TODAY'S MATCH IS PART OF

VERNE GAGNE'S PRO WRESTLING USA

COMING IN THE UNITED STATES AND

CANADA.

VERNE, THE COUP LAST WEEK, SGT.

SLAUGHTER HERE IN THE AWA.

NOW THESE GREAT, GREAT MATCHES,

THE AWA TRULY THE MAJOR LEAGUE

OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

WELL, I THINK IT'S ALWAYS

BEEN MAJOR LEAGUE OF

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING AND, OF

COURSE, SGT.

SLAUGHTER BEING ON THE SCENE,

KIND OF, ADDS TO THAT BUT WE DO

WANT TO LET OUR FANS KNOW THAT

WE WANT TO BRING THEM THE VERY

BEST IN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

WE FEEL WE HAVE OVER THE YEARS.

WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO DO SO.

IT'S GONNA GET BETTER AND BETTER

ALL THE TIME.

VERNE MADE AN ATTEMPT TO

CHANGE THE WAY HE PRESENTED HIS

WRESTLING AND HAD TO DO IT, I'LL

SAY IT MORE LIKE WHAT NEW YORK

WAS DOING.

WELL, A BIG COUP FOR US WAS

TO GET ON ESPN.

THAT WAS THE NEW SPORTS NETWORK,

IT WAS STILL GROWING.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LARRY.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH

THE ESPN.

THERE WAS SOMEBODY I KNEW

THAT WAS IN ESPN AND HAD

CONTACTED BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL

DO THAT WITH THE WRESTLING.

SO THEY AGREED TO IT, I MEAN,

THEY WANTED TO, SO IT WAS GOOD

FOR THEM AND IT WAS GOOD FOR

THEM--FOR US AT THE TIME.

AWA, THE MAJOR LEAGUE OF

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING HERE FOR

YOUR GREAT FANS ALL ACROSS THE

COUNTRY ON ESPN.

WE TAPED ANY NUMBER OF

PLACES.

AT THE TROPICANA IN ATLANTIC

CITY.

WELCOME TO AWA CHAMPIONSHIP

WRESTLING FOR TROPICANA HOTEL

AND CASINO IN ATLANTIC CITY.

ONE OF THEM WAS RIGHT HERE IN

VEGAS, I USED TO BE THE

SHOWBOAT.

WHAT A SHOWBOAT, THAT WAS AN

AMAZING, LEAVE COLD MINNEAPOLIS

AND GOT TO LAS VEGAS.

THEY WANTED WRESTLING AND

THANK GOD THEY DID, IT WAS--IT

WAS GREAT FOR US.

THEY GAVE US THAT NATIONAL

OUTLET, SO THAT WE COULD DRAW

SOME OF THE TALENT THAT WE'RE

GOING TO BE ON TURNER NETWORK

AND ON VINCE'S BIG NETWORK, USA,

SO IT COULD KEPT US IN

COMPETITION.

NOW, FOR ALL OF YOU IDIOTS

WHO HAD BEEN WATCHING THE ESPN

ALL THESE YEARS, WATCHING GUYS

THEY CALL ATHLETES WHO RIDE

AROUND ON HORSES AND HIT BALLS

OR SWIM AND PLAY WATER POLO,

YOU'RE LOOKING AT REAL ATHLETES

HERE.

THEY HAD A LITTLE

REJUVENATION WITH SOME NEW

FACES.

WRESTLING FANS AS I'M CERTAIN

YOU WELL KNOW PROMOTERS HERE IN

THE AWA, NEVER CEASE TO BRING

YOU THE BIGGEST AND BEST TALENT

AVAILABLE.

THEY ARE ALREADY HARD IN WORK AT

BRINGING ONE OF THE MOST

DEVASTATING TAG TEAMS, YOU WILL

EVER SEE.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS MATCH

FEATURING ANIMAL AND HAWK, THE

ROAD WARRIORS.

THESE TWO DYNAMIC CHARACTERS

AND THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN SNEAKY

ON THE OUTSIDE BECOME AN

OVERWHELMING TEAM.

PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST

DEVASTATING TEAM THAT HAS EVER

BEEN SEEN IN PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING IN A NUMBER OF YEARS,

THE ROAD WARRIORS.

AGAIN, THEY CAME IN JUST

AFTER THESE OTHER GUYS LEFT, SO

THEY FEEL--THEY FELT, I GUESS,

THAT VOID, IF THERE WASN'T, WHY

DID THEY FELT IT?

SO THAT WHY THE--PART OF THE

REASON THE BUSINESS STAYED UP.

THE MIDNIGHT ROCKERS, MARTY

JANNETTY AND SHAWN MICHAELS.

I SAW A TAPE OF SHAWN FROM

SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS, JOSE

LOTHARIO TRAINED SHAWN.

AND I SAW A TAPE OF MARTY

JANNETTY AND I SAID GUY, WE'RE

GONNA PUT THIS TWO TOGETHER.

THAT TIME THE ROCK 'N' ROLL

EXPRESS WAS HOT.

AND I SAID, WHY DON'T WE, YOU

KNOW, JUST COME UP WITH THE NAME

FROM THE ROCKERS OR SOMETHING

AND THEY CAME UP WITH THE

MIDNIGHT ROCKERS BECAUSE THEY

DID ROCK ALL NIGHT LONG.

THOSE TWO, THEY WERE--THEY WERE

TOUGH TO HANDLE.

AND HERE'S A DROPKICK.

OH, THERE AREN'T MANY PEOPLE

THAT COULD GET THAT HIGH IN A

DROPKICK, BELIEVE ME.

THEY BROUGHT A LOT--A LOT TO

US ALSO.

I MEAN, THEY BROUGHT A DIFFERENT

KIND OF WRESTLING, MORE

FAST-PACED AND THAT KIND OF

THING.

AND THESE ARE THINGS THAT

YOU'RE GONNA SAY EVERY TIME YOU

SEE THE MIDNIGHT ROCKERS DEFEND

THEIR CHAMPIONSHIP.

HIM AND BUDDY ROSE AND DOUG

SOMERS, UNBELIEVABLE FEUDS,

GREAT MATCHES.

HERE IS TWO, HERE IS THREE...

[CROWD CHEERING]

...AND THEY HAVE FINALLY DONE

IT.

SHERRI MARTEL WAS LIKE A

SHINING STAR.

HERE IS SCOTT HALL.

THAT YOUNG MAN IS CERTAINLY

POWERFUL.

I DON'T KNOW BY THE LAST DECADE

IF I SEEN ANYONE, ANYMORE

STRONGER THAN THAT, LARRY.

THE NASTY BOYS.

NOW, YOU TWO ARE THE NEWEST

TAG TEAM COMBINATION IN THE AWA.

HOW DID YOU COME BY THE NAME THE

NASTY BOYS.

WE CAME BY THE WAY THE NASTY

BOYS HAS DONE IT BECAUSE WE'RE

MEAN AND WE'RE RUDE AND YOU KNOW

THAT SONG BY JANET JACKSON

WROTE--SHE WROTE IT ABOUT US TOO

RIGHT HERE BECAUSE SHE SAWS ONE

DAY, DRIVING THROUGH THE CITY

AND SAW HOW WE ACTED.

AND WE ARE A BUNCH OF RUDE DOGS,

LET ME TELL YOU, DONNA.

HIGH FLYING, EXCITING

WRESTLING ACTION VIA THE

GUERRERO BROTHERS LADIES AND

GENTLEMAN.

THE TEAM THAT I'M SURE, THE

DESTRUCTION CREW IS LOOKING

FORWARD TO FACE AT SOME POINT IN

TIME.

WHEN I STARTED WITH VERNE

GAGNE IN THE INTERVIEW, I

STARTED IN SYNDICATION, WHICH IS

REALLY A GLORIFIED WAY OF SAYING

SALES.

I NEVER INTENDED TO BE ON THE

CAMERA.

I HAD NO DESIRE TO BE ON CAMERA

AND THEN MY PHONE RINGS AND IT'S

GREG GAGNE.

GREG SAYS, "ERIC, WHAT DO

YOU--WHAT DO YOU DOING TODAY?"

I SAID, "WELL, I GOT THIS, LOOK

AT THIS APARTMENT AND I'M MAKING

THIS PHONE CALL AND THIS PRETTY

MUCH AROUND THROUGH THE DAY.

YES, COME ON IN--COME ON OVER TO

[INDISTINCT]

I WANNA TALK TO YOU."

OH, THAT'S WEIRD, YOU KNOW, THEY

LEFT ME BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

IT'S [INDISTINCT]

LONG STORY SHORT, AN ANNOUNCER

THAT WAS UP TO THAT MOMENT

EMPLOYED BY THE AWA HAD

APPARENTLY, ELIGIBLY COVERING MY

ASS HERE GOT A DUI THE NIGHT

BEFORE AND HAD BEEN ARRESTED,

PUT IN JAIL.

AND BECAUSE HE WAS IN JAIL HE

WASN'T IN THE AWA STUDIOS

CONDUCTING THE INTERVIEW WITH 25

OR 30 WRESTLERS WHO HAD ALL BEEN

FLOWN IN.

SO VERNE AND GREG WERE KIND OF

STUCK, THERE WAS NOBODY THERE TO

CONDUCT THE INTERVIEWS.

AND I THINK THAT THE THEORY WAS

"WAIT A MINUTE, ERIC'S HERE,

HE'S GOT A SHIRT AND A TIE, I'M

SURE HE'S GOT A SPORT COAT,

LET'S LET HIM DO THE INTERVIEWS.

HE CAN BE AN ANNOUNCER."

AND AT THIS POINT LET'S BRING

IN, SGT.

SLAUGHTER, GI JOE HIMSELF.

THANK YOU, EDDIE.

PAUL HEYMAN WITH THE AWA FOR

AWHILE.

WE'VE BEEN MAKING THIS PLACE

SO MUCH MONEY THEY NOW BUY NEW

SETS.

CURT HENNIG AS FAR AS I'M

CONCERNED WAS MEANT TO BE, ONE

OF THE FUTURE STARS.

CURT CERTAINLY ONE OF THE

REALLY RISING AND UP

IN--UPCOMING STARS IN THE

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING WORLD.

IN TERMS OF PHENOMENAL

WRESTLING I FIGURED A GOOD

TESTAMENT TO VERNE AND TO GREG

IN TERMS OF HIS SKILL IN THE

RING, HIS TRAINING.

FANS AGAIN AS I TOLD YOU CURT

HENNIG CONTINUING TO ELECTRIFY

THE CROWD ALL THROUGHOUT THE

AWA.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS VERY CLOSE

TO BEING MR. PERFECT IN MY BOOK.

AND CURT WAS A HOMETOWN GUY.

CURT HENNIG OUT OF

ROBBINSDALE, MINNESOTA, 232

POUNDS.

HE DID EVERYTHING THE HARD

WAY, YOU KNOW.

HE WORKED HARD, WRESTLED HARD

AND WAS A GOOD ATHLETE.

HE LOOKED GOOD, HE TALKED GOOD,

PROBABLY ONE OF THE GREATEST

WRESTLERS OF ALL TIME.

WITH LESS THAN 60 SECONDS

REMAINING, THESE TWO MEN HAS

GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT THERE IS

TO GIVE, NOT ONLY THAT THEY HAVE

TO GIVE BUT THERE IS TO GIVE

FROM THE SPORT OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

AND STILL TO THIS DAY, I

REMEMBER THE--YOU KNOW, THE

MATCHES THAT HE HAD WITH NICK

BOCKWINKEL, GREAT MATCHES.

AND AS I'M STANDING HERE

RIGHT NOW LARRY NELSON.

I'VE GOT THE MOST CONFIDENCE.

THIS IS THE BEST I'VE EVER FELT

AND I JUST WANNA TELL YOU

SOMETHING NICK BOCKWINKEL, ON

MAY 2ND IN SAN FRANCISCO IN THE

COW PALACE, I AM GONNA WALK OUT

THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE

WORLD.

HE'S THE NEXT ONE IN LINE

THAT HAD ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS

AND QUALITIES TO MAKE A GOOD

CHAMPION.

HENNIG DROPS OFF AND HAMMERS

AWAY, THE COUNT OF ONE, TWO,

THREE.

I THINK AT THAT TIME THAT THE

AWA HAD SPENT A LOT OF MONEY

WITH CURT ON THE TV SHOWS AND

PROMOTIONS.

AND THEN THEY FIGURED OUT IF

THIS GUY LEFT THEIR--THAT--IT

WAS GONNA GET WORST.

I THINK THOSE PEOPLE WERE

USING VERNE'S AWA ESSENTIALLY AS

A SPRINGBOARD TO FOLLOW IN THE

FOOTSTEPS OF THEIR PREDECESSORS

LIKE VENTURA, LIKE OKERLUND,

LIKE THE HAWK, LIKE BOBBY HEENAN

BECAUSE THEY COULD TURN IN THE

TELEVISION AND SEE HOW WELL

THOSE INDIVIDUALS AMONG OTHERS

WERE DOING.

THAT WAS FOR THE END BECAUSE

THEY WERE GIVEN UP BOGUS TO GET

CONTRACTS, TRYING TO KEEP

EVERYBODY THERE.

I JUST KEPT--I JUST--THAT'S--I

JUST KEPT STRINGING HIM ALONG

BECAUSE I HAD NO INTENTION TO

EVER SIGN THAT CONTRACT BECAUSE

MARTY JANNETTY AND SHAWN

MICHAELS HAD SIGNED THE CONTRACT

AND VERNE WOULD NOT--THEY GOT A

CALL TO COME UP HERE BEFORE I

DID AND VERNE WOULD NOT LEND ME

THAT CONTRACT.

THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN UP HERE A

LOT SOONER HAD THAT NOT

HAPPENED, SO I WATCHED FROM THEM

MISTAKES AND TRIED TO LEARN.

I'M SURE A LOT OF THEM WERE

THINKING, BOY, IF I CAN JUST,

YOU KNOW, HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S

IN THE WWE THAT I KNOW

RECOMMEND...

I DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS

PICKING UP AND GO IN.

THEY WERE PROBABLY HOPING

THAT THEY COULD GET, WELL,

CAUGHT UP IN THE WWE AND MOST OF

THOSE GUYS DID, CURT DID AND

SHAWN MICHAELS AND THE

DESTRUCTION CREW, THEY ARE WHO

WROTE THE WWE SONG.

I SUPPOSED THAT'S WHERE THEIR

HOPE WAS BECAUSE, YEAH, IT

WAS--IT WAS--THINGS WERE

CRUMBLING AROUND THIS.

CRUMBLE, CRUMBLE, CRUMBLE.

WHEN JERRY, JARRETT AND I

DEVELOPED THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH

VERNE GAGNE IN THE 80S, WE SAW

AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING

IN OUR TERRITORY THAT WE HAD

NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO BEFORE AND

THAT WAS CHANGE A WORLD

CHAMPIONSHIP.

SO MUCH RIDING ON THIS FOR

THE KING, IF HE CANNOT REST THE

CROWN AWAY FROM CURT HENNIG.

LAWLER WILL HANG IT UP AND END

AN INCREDIBLE 15-YEAR CAREER.

THINGS ARE NOT LOOKING GOOD

THOUGH FOR LAWLER.

LAWLER CUT, HE'S HURT, HE'S NOT

MOVING WELL IN THE RING.

HENNIG LOOKS LIKE THE STRONGER

OF THE TWO AT THE MOMENT.

WE ACTUALLY DID A TELEPHONE

POLL AND LET THE FANS DECIDE WHO

THE REFEREE WAS GONNA BE WHETHER

IT WAS BETWEEN CURT HENNIG'S

FATHER, LARRY "THE AXE" HENNIG

OR MY MENTOR, JACKIE FARGO BUT

OF COURSE THE FANS VOTED FOR

JACKIE FARGO TO COME IN AND BE

THE SPECIAL REFEREE IN THAT

MATCH

THE REFEREE TELLS HENNIG TO

BACK UP WHILE FARGO LOOKS AT THE

EYE.

HE WAS TEMPTED TO STOP IT RIGHT

THEN AND THERE.

LOOK AT HENNIG BLAST THAT EYE.

HENNIG IS JUST BLASTING

UNMERCIFULLY, UNMERCIFULLY ON

THAT EYE.

AND THE REFEREE KEEPS CHECKING

IT BUT LAWLER STOPS FARGO FROM

GIVING THE MATCH--BOOM.

AND LAWLER WITH THE RIGHT HAND

PUTS HENNIG DOWN.

HE'S A LONG WAY FROM THROUGH.

THIS GUY WITH THIS AMAZING

ABILITY TO COME BACK, THE KING,

JERRY LAWLER SHOOTS HIM ON A

CATAPULT INTO THE TURNBUCKLE.

HENNIG IS DOWN, THE CROWD WANTS

LAWLER TO COME OVER AND COVER

UP.

HE COVERS.

ONE, TWO, HE GOT IT.

[BELL RINGING]

THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT

CHAMPION, JERRY LAWLER IN 24,

27.

INCREDIBLE.

WHEN I FINALLY DID WIN THE

TITLE, IT WAS HUGE FOR US THERE

IN MEMPHIS AND IT WAS HUGE FOR

THEM OR ALL OUR FANS WHO HAD

BEEN BEHIND ME SINCE THE 70S

HOPING FOR ME TO WIN A TITLE.

JERRY JARRETT, PROMOTER EDDIE

MARLIN.

THEY'RE ALL UP THERE AS THE KING

TURNED WHAT LOOKED LIKE SURE

DEFEAT INTO A VICTORY.

QUITE HONESTLY I DON'T FOR A

MINUTE BELIEVED THAT IT WOULD

HAVE HAPPENED, HAD NOT CURT

ALREADY HAD THE INTENTIONS OF

LEAVING THE AWA AND GOING TO

VINCE MCMAHON, THE WWE.

I THINK THE DEAL WAS ALREADY

DONE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT I THINK CURT

LEFT THE FOLLOWING WEEK BECAUSE

I STILL THINK OF COURSE THAT

VERNE GAGNE LOOKED AT IT AS A

SAD DAY FOR THE AWA BECAUSE, YOU

KNOW, IT WAS--IT WAS OUT OF

NECESSITY FOR HIM BECAUSE HIS

CURRENT CHAMPION WAS LEAVING.

DECEMBER 13TH, 1988 WAS THE DATE

OF SUPERCLASH III.

THE BIG PAY-PER-VIEW THAT THE

PROMOTERS WERE PUTTING ONTO

HOPEFULLY SHOW THE WORLD THAT,

MAN, THEY COULD COMPETE WITH

VINCE MCMAHON.

THIS IS AN EVENT THAT WE HAD

BEEN WAITING FOR FOR MONTHS,

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN AND FINALLY

IT IS HERE.

ARE YOU READY CHICAGO?

I DON'T THINK IT MEANT

ANYTHING, THE FACT THAT AWA

FINALLY MADE IT TO PAY-PER-VIEW.

I THINK THEY WERE FOLLOWING

OBVIOUSLY INSTEAD OF LEADING AS

FAR AS I WAS CONCERNED.

IT WAS A PROMOTION WITH THE

GROUP OUT OF DALLAS WITH THE

MEMPHIS GROUP AND WITH THE AWA.

WE GOT A PROMOTER AND FRITZ

VON ERICH, YOU GOT JERRY DOWN

THERE AND HE'S HAD THE EGOMANIAC

AND WORKED WITH VERNE.

HE'S GOT AN EGO.

AND ALL YOU'RE GONNA TRY AND DO

COMBINE THE SHOW.

AS LONG AS VERNE'S ATTEMPT TO

KIND OF TAKE THE LAST OF THE

REMAINING KIND OF INDEPENDENT

PROMOTERS AND TERRITORIES IF YOU

WILL PUT THEM UNDER ONE BIGGER

UMBRELLA AND COMPETE ON

PAY-PER-VIEW.

YOU'VE SEEN PAY-PER-VIEW

SHOWS BEFORE WHERE ONE MAN BEATS

ANOTHER MAN FROM THE SAME

ORGANIZATION, COME ON, YOU'VE

SEEN THAT FIVE OR SIX TIMES

ALREADY.

I KNEW THEY COULDN'T ORDER A

CUP OF COFFEE TOGETHER, MUCH

LESS WORK TOGETHER, PLAN

TOGETHER AND HAVE A UNITED

FRONT.

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A

SUPERCLASH NOT ONLY A CLASH

BETWEEN GREAT ATHLETES BUT A

CLASH OF ORGANIZATIONS.

THAT WAS IMPOSSIBLE; I WASN'T

CONCERNED WITH THAT AT ALL.

OUR OFFICE AND I WAS IN THE

TERRITORY AT THAT TIME.

IN MID-SOUTH WRESTLING AND THEN

IT BECAME WWE, WE DIDN'T

PARTICIPATE ON THAT.

IT WAS A JOKE.

IT HAD A POTENTIAL OF

DERIVING HUGE DOLLARS.

THEY WERE HOPING THAT THIS

WOULD LEND THEM TO CREDIBILITY

WITH THE CABLE COMPANIES IF IT

WERE SUCCESSFUL, THAT THEY WOULD

SOMEWHERE BE ABLE ON ONE OF THE

NETWORKS TO GET A WEEKLY SHOT ON

CABLE.

A GIANT NIGHT OF WRESTLING IN

EACH AND EVERY BIT OF IT IS

LIVE, I SAID LIVE RIGHT HERE IN

CHICAGO.

PROBABLY ALL THE TOP TALENT

THAT HAD ALREADY SIGNED WITH

VINCE MCMAHON WAS ON THIS

PAY-PER-VIEW.

SUPERCLASH III, THE GREATEST

EVENT IN ALL OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

THE AWA DID NOT HAVE THE

TALENT-BASE THAT IT HAD

PREVIOUSLY.

THE DYNASTY OF THE AWA HAD

ENDED.

I WAS THE AWA WORLD CHAMPION

AT THE TIME, KERRY VON ERICH WAS

THE WCCW WORLD CHAMPION AND IT

WAS A UNIFICATION MATCH.

THIS IS THE AWA WORLD

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP BELT.

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THIS

SIGNIFIES THE BEST IN THE ENTIRE

WORLD.

KERRY VON ERICH HAS A VERSION

THAT HE CALLS THE WORLD

CHAMPIONSHIP FROM WORLD CLASS

AFTER SUPERCLASH ON DECEMBER

13TH, THERE ONLY BE ONE CHAMPION

AND I PROMISE YOU LADIES AND

GENTLEMAN, YOU ARE LOOKING AT

HIM RIGHT NOW.

KING WAS IN A SITUATION WHERE

HE WAS A STAR OF THE MEMPHIS

TERRITORY AND IT WAS IMPORTANT

FOR KING TO PROTECT HIS IMAGE ON

THIS BIG SHOW BECAUSE HE HAD TO

GO BACK TO MEMPHIS WITH HIS

IMAGE INTACT SO TO SPEAK AND

STOOD WITH THE HEADLINER ON HIS

WEEKLY EVENTS.

KERRY VON ERICH HAD TO GO BACK

TO DALLAS AND MAKE SURE HIS

DADDY WAS HAPPY.

COMING INTO THE SUPERCLASH,

HE'S THINKING, AM I GONNA LET MY

FAMILY DOWN AGAIN?

KERRY, YOU ARE, YOU'RE GONNA

LOSE, I PROMISE YOU THAT.

MAN, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU.

NOBODY KNEW WHAT WAS GONNA

HAPPEN IN THAT MATCH.

IT FELT LIKE IT WAS A NATO,

YOU KNOW, LIKE THE UN AND

EVERYBODY WAS, YOU KNOW, IN THIS

HIGH-LEVEL MEETINGS AND

EVERYTHING WAS VERY SECRET.

EVERYBODY WAS VERY SOMBER

BECAUSE THESE PROMOTERS, NONE OF

THEM REALLY TRUSTED EACH OTHER.

I FEEL WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT

KERRY VON ERICH CAME TO CHICAGO

CERTAINLY BELIEVING IN THAT HE

WAS GONNA LEAVE THEIR UNIFIED

WORLD CHAMPION.

I HAVE SUCH HIGH EXPECTATIONS

THAT I'M PLANNING ON TAKING THAT

TITLE.

I'VE COME HERE FOR ONE REASON

AND THAT IS TO SHOW THE WORLD

THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE WORLD

CHAMPION.

JERRY JARRETT REALLY WANTED

LAWLER TO HAVE THAT

CHAMPIONSHIP.

THERE'S SO MUCH AT STAKE HERE

WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THINGS

LIKE THIS, I HAVE FOR THE LAST

35 YEARS.

THE BEGINNING TOGETHER OF THE

LEAGUES.

AND LET'S SEE--LET'S SEE WHO IS

THE BEST.

TONIGHT WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT.

I JUST FELT THAT, YOU KNOW,

THAT VERNE WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE

HIS AWA CHAMPIONSHIP GET THAT

BIG LOSS PINNED ON IT AND THEN

BECOME A UNIFIED TITLE THAT WAY.

THIS IS A MATCH WHERE TWO MEN

ARE GONNA WALK INTO THE RING,

BOTH OF THEM WITH BELTS.

ONE MAN IS GONNA WALK OUT WITH

TWO BELTS.

WE RATHER BE AND THEN

PROBABLY ONE OF THE BLOODIEST

MATCHES THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN

INVOLVED IN.

LAWLER GETTING KERRY VON

ERICH'S LEFT ARM OVER THE TOP

ROPE AND HE ALREADY CUT OPENED.

YEAH, HE SPLIT IT WIDE OPEN.

[CROWD CHATTER]

LAWLER GOING INTO HIS TIGHTS

AFTER CUTTING.

AND DOWN GOES VON ERICH.

YOU'RE RIGHT LAWLER REACHING

INTO HIS TIGHTS.

VON ERICH BUSTED WIDE OPEN.

VON ERICH IS CUT OPEN.

NOW, HE'S GOT A LOT OF BLOOD IN

HIS FOREHEAD.

THAT'S WHEN THE "IRON CLAW" IS

MOST EFFECTIVE.

JERRY LAWLER'S IN A VERY BAD

WAY RIGHT NOW.

OH, BUT MARTY MILLER KEEPS

LOOKING AT VON ERICH'S FOREHEAD.

[CROWD CHATTER]

LAWLER GO ABOUT REACHING HIS

TIGHTS.

AND LAWLER HITS VON ERICH

AGAIN.

RIGHT HAND AGAIN BY LAWLER.

[CROWD CHATTER]

OUT OF THE RING GOES VON

ERICH.

A DISCUS PUNCH BY VON ERICH AND

STILL MARTY MILLER WANTS TO

CHECK THE EYE OF KERRY VON

ERICH.

THESE GUYS ARE A BLOODY MESS AND

THERE'S THE "IRON CLAW" AGAIN

APPLIED BY KERRY VON ERICH.

BLOOD WAS POURING OUT OF HIS

HEAD DOWN INTO MY FACE.

I REMEMBER IT UNTIL THIS DAY.

AND THERE'S MARTY MILLER

STILL CHECKING THE EYE OF KERRY

VON ERICH.

[CROWD CHATTER]

[BELL RINGING]

MARTY MILLER CALLING FOR THE

BELL.

THE REFEREE STOPS THE MATCH.

KERRY VON ERICH UNABLE TO GO ON.

HE CANNOT PERFORM, CANNOT SEE,

THE REFEREE AWARDS THE MATCH TO

JERRY "THE KING" LAWLER.

THE REFEREE DID THE RIGHT

THING.

HE SAVED THE MAN'S EYE SIGHT

BECAUSE IF HE HAD NOT STOPPED

THAT MATCH, I HATE TO SAY IT BUT

I WOULD HAVE BLINDED KERRY VON

ERICH, I PROMISE YOU.

THEY HAD A HECK OF A MATCH

AND LAWLER RETAINED THE TITLE.

THE NEXT THING, YOU KNOW, THE

TIME GOES BY AND NO PAY--NO

PAY--NO PAY.

THEN I GET A BOOKING SHEET FROM

VERNE GAGNE SHOWING ME THESE

DATES AND THESE CITIES I'M

SUPPOSED TO GO WRESTLING AND

DEFEND THE AWA OR THE UNIFIED

TITLE THEN, YOU KNOW, I HAD THE

AWA AND THE WCCW TITLE.

WHEN LAWLER WAS SUPPOSED TO

COME BACK AND WRESTLE OUR TOP

GUYS HERE AND WOULD PROBABLY

LOSE THAT TITLE, HE DIDN'T SHOW

UP.

I'M NOT GOING TO--AND

DEFENDING THE TITLE UNTIL I GET

THE PAYOFF FROM SUPERCLASH.

WHAT ELSE COULD WE DO?

THE AWA, THEY HAD THE STRIP HIM

OF THE TITLE.

HE WOULDN'T--HE WOULDN'T COME UP

HERE AND WRESTLE.

FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU,

FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME.

I DON'T THINK LAWLER'S EVER

BEEN PAID YET.

I STILL HAVE THE AWA

CHAMPIONSHIP BELT AT MY HOME IN

MEMPHIS AND ONCE I WON AT

SUPERCLASH I NEVER WENT BACK AND

WORKED FOR VERNE GAGNE AGAIN.

SO CAN YOU IMAGINE IT'S 20

PLUS YEARS LATER WHERE IT WAS

BEEN AND HE STILL HASN'T PAID?

I THINK THE BIGGEST MISTAKE

THAT VERNE GAGNE MADE WAS

SUPERCLASH III WAS THE FACT THAT

HE PRETTY MUCH ALIENATED HIMSELF

FROM ALL THE OTHER PROMOTERS

WHEN THAT PAY-PER-VIEW WAS OVER.

QUITE FRANKLY HE STIFFED

EVERYBODY.

VERNE WAS SO FAR BACK UP

AGAINST THE WALL.

HE DECIDED, "I'M GONNA SINK THE

MONEY IN MY POCKET."

WHETHER THAT WAS THE CASE OR

NOT, THAT'S WHAT I HEARD.

DID VERNE PROTECT VERNE

FIRST?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT DOES VINCE MCMAHON, PROTECT

VINCE MCMAHON FIRST?

DOES VINCE MCMAHON PROTECT THE

WWE FIRST AND FOREMOST?

ABSOLUTELY.

TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE

NO ONE WAS PAID ANYTHING FOR

SUPERCLASH III.

[MUSIC]

IT BASICALLY TURNED OUT TO BE

FLOP.

ULTIMATELY, IT DIDN'T DELIVER

THE KIND OF REVENUE AND THE

NUMBERS THAT EVERYBODY HAD HOPED

IT WOULD.

AS I RECALL, THEY WEREN'T

DISTRIBUTED VERY WIDE WIDELY.

IT PROBABLY DID A QUARTER OF

THE BUY RATE THAT WWE WAS DOING

AT THAT TIME OR NWA WAS DOING AT

THAT TIME.

THE WRESTLERS ALL KNEW THAT

THE AWA WAS FALLING APART AT THE

SCENES.

AND THE PAY-PER-VIEW NUMBERS

WEREN'T THAT BAD BUT YOU GOT TO

REMEMBER VINCE HAD A

PAY-PER-VIEW GOING AND CROCKETT

GROUP HAD ONE GOING.

SO WE'RE, KIND OF--THEY

SANDWICHED US RIGHT IN BETWEEN

THEM AND VINCE WAS A MASTER AT

DOING THAT.

PEOPLE SPENT 39.95 THE NIGHT

BEFORE.

HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET ANOTHER

24-25 BUCKS OUT ON THE NEXT DAY?

HE MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR

YOU TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

IT WAS THE FIRST AND LAST

ATTEMPT TO UNIFY ALL THESE

DIFFERENT INDEPENDENT PROMOTERS

UNDER ONE BANNER.

POLITICS AND EGO HAD BEEN A

BIGGER ISSUE, A BIGGER DETRIMENT

TO OUR BUSINESS QUITE FRANKLY

THAN ANY INJURIES AND MONEY IN

MY ESTIMATION.

AFTER I WAS OFFICIALLY

STRIPPED OF THE AWA WORLD

CHAMPIONSHIP IN VERNE GAGNE'S

EYES WITHOUT LETTING ME KNOW IT.

APPARENTLY, THEY PUT TOGETHER A

BATTLE ROYAL OF ALL THE

REMAINING TALENT.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN

HISTORY OF WRESTLING THAT

THEY'VE EVER HAVE A BATTLE ROYAL

IS HAVING THE WINNER, IT'S GONNA

BE THE WORLD CHAMPION.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE

THEY STRIPPED JERRY LAWLER OF

THE TITLE.

THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK THAT HE WASN'T

SHOWING UP IN HIS MATCHES.

MAYBE HE HAD A BIG YELLOW STREAK

DOWN HIS BACK WITH SOME OF THE

OPPONENTS THAT HE HAD OR

SOMETHING.

WHEN THE WHISTLE BLOWS

EVERYBODY GOES AND THEY SURE

HAVE RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING OF

THIS MATCH AND IT'S BOILED DOWN

TO THESE FANS, TOM ZENK AND

LARRY ZBYSZKO.

VERTICAL [INDISTINCT]

OOH.

ZENK'S OVER THE TOP ROPE.

RIGHT THERE IS YOUR WINNER...

[BELL RINGING]

...OVER THE TOP ROPE.

THAT'S IT--THAT'S IT.

THE REFEREES CALLING FOR THE

BELL THE NEW HEAVYWEIGHT

CHAMPION OF THE WORLD, THE

LIVING LEGEND FROM PITTSBURGH,

PENNSYLVANIA, LARRY ZBYSZKO.

WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T

KNOW BUT THEY DID KNOW WHAT THAT

AREA AT THAT TIME WAS THAT LARRY

ZBYSZKO WAS VERNE GAGNE'S

SON-IN-LAW.

I, AFTER 14 GLORIOUS YEARS AM

THE MAJOR LEAGUE OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

EVERYBODY JUST LOOKED AROUND

AND SAID, "WELL, IF VERNE COULD

MAKE HIS SON WORLD CHAMPION, HE

CAN MAKE HIS SON-IN-LAW WORLD

CHAMPION."

I'M A LITTLE BIT PREJUDICED,

I WAS HOPING MY SON WOULD WIN IN

THE RING BUT THEN HE WAS TOO.

THE FACT THAT LARRY MARRIED

ONE OF VERNE'S DAUGHTERS TO ME

IT'S REALLY A RELEVANT.

WHAT VERNE WAS TRYING TO DO I

THINK IN THIS INSTANCE WAS KEEP

THE TITLE AND THE FAMILY AND NOT

RISK THE TITLE BEING, YOU KNOW,

TAKEN TO THE WWE OR TO ANOTHER

ORGANIZATION JUST LIKE--I MEAN,

YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT VERNE

LOOKED AT ME AND SAY, "MAN,

HERE'S THIS LAWLER, YOU KNOW,

THIS JERK WHO WON IN AWA.

HE WAS FROM THE CWA DOWN IN

MEMPHIS AND HE GETS THE TITLE

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HE

DISAPPEARS THEN KEEP THE TITLE.

SO I JUST THINK HE FELT SECURE

AND THE FACT THAT THIS GUY IS MY

SON-IN-LAW, WHERE'S HE GONNA GO?

I WANNA BE THE KIND OF

CHAMPION THAT A CHAMPION SHOULD

BE.

NOT LIKE TO THE SO CALLED

CHAMPIONS, NOT LIKE THIS GOOF

BALL COWARD LAWLER.

LARRY WAS A REAL TALENTED

GUY, A GREAT TALKER.

YOU KNOW WHAT MY SECRET IS, I

AM A PRODUCT OF ALL THE BEST

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS THAT EVER

WERE AND THAT EVER WILL BE.

I THINK WHAT VERNE SAW WAS

MAYBE AGAIN WOULD BE THE

IGNITION TO GET HIM ROLLING.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S A TEAM EFFORT

AND IT JUST WASN'T ENOUGH DEPTH,

QUALITY MAIN EVEN DEPTH IN AWA

THAT TIME FOR IT TO SURVIVE AND

THAT'S WHAT REALLY EVENTUALLY

KILLED IT.

THE TEAM CHALLENGE SERIES ON

ESPN THAT WAS A LITTLE

BRAINSTORMING IDEA WE CAME UP

WITH.

WE DECIDED LET'S HAVE A DRAFT

AND GO INTO TEAM COMPETITION.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOBODY ELSE

WAS DOING.

THEY THOUGHT THAT WOULD SAVE

THE TERRITORY.

VERNE JUST WOULD NOT THROW IN

THE TOWEL.

HE PROBABLY SHOULD GAVE A YEAR

OR TWO EARLIER.

AND WE GOT TO CREATE RESPONSE

FROM IT.

THE TEAM CHALLENGE SERIES,

WHAT IS--DON'T KNOW, WHEN--WHAT

WAS THAT?

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHAT

YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE IS THE

FINALS, THE GRAND FINALE IF YOU

WILL OF THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES.

IT WILL BE A BATTLE ROYAL WHO

HAS EVER LEFT, IT IS SO CLOSE

WILL WIN THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES AND THE $1 MILLION.

CRANK THE VCR BECAUSE

WRESTLING FANS YOU'RE ABOUT TO

SEE HISTORY IN THE MAKING.

AGAIN, IT WAS AT THE TAIL-END

OF THE AWA AND I THINK

DESPERATION WAS RUNNING AMOK.

WELL, THIS IS IT.

THIS IS FOR ALL THE MARBLES,

THIS IS FOR THE GOLD.

THE TEAM'S AHEAD AT THIS

POINT, I'M ALL MIXED UP.

YOU GOT THE BLITZERS AHEAD.

I'M SORRY, THE BLITZERS AND THE

LEGENDS ARE TIED AT 49 EACH.

THE SNIPERS ONLY TWO POINTS

DOWN.

I CAN'T--THERE'S MUCH

CONFUSION OUT THERE.

I CAN'T TELL WHO'S GOING IN--OH,

OVER THE TOP ROPE...

[CROWD CHEERING]

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

WELL, THAT'S GOT TO BE A

POINT THEN.

WITH THAT ONE POINT, LARRY'S

LEGENDS HAS TIED BARON'S

BLITZERS.

WAIT, WE SAID THAT THERE WAS

GOING TO BE FIVE POINTS TO THE

WINNER OF THE MATCH UNLESS

MISTAKEN, LARRY'S LEGENDS HAS

JUST WON THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES.

NOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK IN THE

TEAM CHALLENGE SERIES NOW?

WELL, THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES IS A UNIQUE EVENT FOR

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEEN

DONE.

ANYWAY, I CONGRATULATE THE OTHER

PEOPLE BUT...

THEY WERE JUST RUNNING OUT OF

IDEAS.

THEY WERE OUT OF TALENT, THEY

WERE OUT OF MONEY.

THEY WERE LOSING TELEVISION

STATIONS RIGHT AND LEFT.

I MEAN, WE'RE LITERALLY

OPERATING ON FUMES.

I TELL YOU, A LOT IS GONNA BE

WRITTEN AND A LOT HAS GONNA BE

SET ABOUT THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES FROM 1990.

I DON'T KNOW WHO CAME UP WITH

THE IDEA FOR THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES.

WRESTLERS FROM ALL OVER THE

WORLD ARE GOING WHERE AND WHEN

IS THE NEXT ONE?

HOW CAN I GET A PIECE OF THE ONE

MILLION DOLLARS?

I DON'T KNOW WHY I GOT--I GOT

STUCK WITH THE TEAM CHALLENGE

SERIES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO

DO IN THERE.

WELL, IT WAS--IT WAS--I--THE

GUY CAME UP WITH THE IDEA AND

THEN FORMULATE IT WITH MY

FATHER.

AND I THINK THE PEOPLE JUST

ASSUMED BECAUSE I WAS STARTING

TO EMERGE AND THEN THIS NEW IDEA

CAME ALONG THAT SOMEHOW I WAS

RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, BUT I WANT

TO SAY PUBLICLY ON THE RECORD

AGAIN NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

[MUSIC]

THE FINAL NAIL, IF YOU WILL,

FOR AWA CAME WHEN THE STATE OF

MINNESOTA DECIDED ENFORCE AN

EMINENT DOMAIN CLAIM AGAINST

VERNE GAGNE AND THE PROPERTY

THAT VERNE HAD ON--IN A VERY

PRESTIGIOUS AREA OF MINNEAPOLIS

CALLED LAKE MINNETONKA.

THE COUNTY CAME IN AND

DECIDED THAT, "HEY, VERNE, WE'D

LIKE TO TAKE THIS PIECE OF

PROPERTY AND MAKE A PARK OUT OF

IT."

NOW, VERNE HIRED A COUPLE OF

ATTORNEYS AND FOUGHT FOR A

COUPLE OF YEARS TO PREVENT THE

SALE AND TRY TO FIGHT THE

EMINENT DOMAIN ISSUE.

ALL THE WHILE HE WAS BORROWING

AGAINST THAT PROPERTY TO FUND

THE AWA.

ONCE HE LOST THE IMMINENT DOMAIN

CASE AND WAS FORCED TO SELL, HE

NO LONGER HAD THAT ASSET TO

BORROW AGAINST.

THAT HIT--THAT FINANCIAL HIT IS

WHAT LED VERNE TO, YOU KNOW,

HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE REALLY THAN

TO THROW INTO THE TOWEL ON AWA.

THAT WAS REALLY HARD ON MY

PARENTS.

VERNE WOULD HAVE LITERALLY

JUST SPENT HIS WAY IN THE

BANKRUPTCY, DOING EVERYTHING

THAT HE COULD TO KEEP THE AWA

ALIVE.

HE WAS THAT STUBBORN AND THAT

COMMITTED.

SO, BETWEEN THE WRESTLING AND

THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A

DEVASTATING FEW YEARS FOR THE

GAGNE FAMILY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED TO

THE AWA?

PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME ANSWER

THAT.

THEY RAN OUT OF TALENT.

EVERYBODY WENT TO NEW YORK.

THEY PUT THEMSELVES OUT OF

BUSINESS.

VINCE DIDN'T PUT THEM OUT OF

BUSINESS.

IF I READ ONE MORE SOUR

WRESTLING BOOK FROM OLD--FROM

OLD WRESTLER WHO DIDN'T SAVE HIS

MONEY.

HE'S PISSED OFF WITH EVERYBODY

BECAUSE EVERYBODY CHEATED HIM,

EVERYBODY DID THIS TO HIM,

EVERYTHING DID THIS TO HIM, I'M

GONNA THROW UP.

IF IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN VINCE,

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMEONE

BECAUSE AGAIN, TECHNOLOGY-WISE

IT WAS ALL REALLY IN THIS

DIRECTION.

I JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT WE

KEPT UP WITH THE TIMES.

AND IF YOU DON'T CHANGE WITH

THE TIMES, EVENTUALLY YOU'RE

JUST GONNA FALL ON YOUR FACE.

THE STUBBORNNESS DO NOT

CHANGE WITH THE TIMES BY VERNE

WAS THE DOWNFALL.

AND SOME MAY SAY THE REASON

AWA SHUT THE DOORS WAS BECAUSE

VERNE WAS SO STUBBORN, I

PERSONALLY THINK THE REASON AWA

WAS AROUND AS LONG AS IT WAS,

WAS BECAUSE VERNE JUST REFUSED

TO LET IT GO AND REALLY FOUGHT

TO THE LAST FINANCIAL BREATHE.

I THINK HE WAS BURNED OUT,

VERNE WAS.

HE DROPPED THE BALL.

I'VE BEEN OFF THERE FOR

AWHILE I SUPPOSE BUT I--SO I

WANTED TO--WANTED TO KEEP GOING

BUT AFTER THE TALENT WENT AND

YOU COULD DO ANYTHING, YOU JUST

MIGHT AS WELL FORGET IT.

I MEAN I COULDN'T MAKE TALENT

FAST ENOUGH.

THEY SORT OF SELF-DESTRUCTED,

YOU KNOW, UNDER THE WEIGHT OF

COMPETITION.

WE CAME TO A POINT WHERE WE

HAD NOTHING.

WE WERE GONNA LOSE OUR HOUSE.

VERNE WAS NOT WILLING TO

REINVEST IN HIS BUSINESS, THE

AMOUNT OF HOURS THAT IT TAKES TO

PUT INTO THE BUSINESS.

THE MARKETING, ALL ASPECTS OF

THE BUSINESS WHICH YOU HAVE TO

BE--HAVE YOUR FINGERS ON AND

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOREIGN TO

VERNE AND HE WASN'T READY TO

MAKE THAT KIND OF COMMITMENT AND

REINVEST MONETARILY.

I MEAN, I DON'T FEEL BAD

ABOUT IT, NO.

I DON'T HAVE ANY GRUDGES FOR

MCMAHON OR ANYTHING.

I JUST--HIS DAD AND I WERE GOOD

FRIENDS, SO THAT WAS--I REMEMBER

THAT AS WELL AS NOT LIKING HIS

SON.

TO CLOSE THE AWA WAS VERY

TOUGH DECISION FOR VERNE.

I MEAN, HIS WHOLE LIFE FROM 1957

TO 1991 WAS AWA.

I COULD HAVE GONE TO THE WWE AND

SUPPORTED MY FAMILY.

I CHOSE TO STAY WITH MY FATHER

UNTIL THE END.

AND THE END CAME AND IT WAS--IT

WAS BRUTAL.

[MUSIC]

OH, YEAH.

IT WAS--I HAD DONE PRETTY WELL,

YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS.

SO IT WAS NOT BAD FOR ME AS IT

WAS TO OTHER PEOPLE.

AND IT PROBABLY HURT A LOT OF

WRESTLERS ALSO.

GOD, IT WAS TOUGH, REALLY

TOUGH.

EMOTIONALLY, IT WAS DEVASTATING

TO MY MOM AND DAD AND TO MY

FAMILY.

I WISH I COULD DO SOMETHING

HERE THAT WOULD BE SENSATIONAL.

YOU COULD PUT DOWN THOSE PAGES

WHO GOT THERE BUT IT'S OVER.

NOW, IT'S OVER AND THAT'S IT.

THEY'LL FORGET ABOUT IT.

WHEN WE GOT THE CALL FROM

JOHN LAURINAITIS AT THE WWE

OFFICES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO

INDUCT VERNE INTO THE HALL OF

FAME, I KIND OF SAID, "YOU'RE

KIDDING."

THERE WAS SO MUCH ANIMOSITY

IN...

VERNE, I'M SURE BLAMED VINCE

FOR THE DEMISE OF THE AWA.

HE SAID, "WHAT DO YOU THINK?"

AND I SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M

GONNA HAVE TO TALK TO MY FATHER

ON THAT ONE.

I THOUGHT, "WHY WOULD THEY

WANNA DO THAT?"

I SHOULD--I--MAYBE HE COULD HAVE

SAID, YOU KNOW, JUST TAKE IT UP

BUT I'M NOT HOLDING ANY GRUDGES

WITH THEM, SO...

WOW!

I WAS--I WAS SHOCKED.

I WAS VERY SURPRISED.

I DON'T RECALL THAT VERNE

EVEN WORKING FOR THE WWE.

THAT KIND OF RUBBED THE WRONG

WAY.

I GUESS I WAS MORE SHOCKED

NOT BECAUSE VERNE WOULDN'T

QUALIFY.

WELL, IT WAS JUST BECAUSE OF ALL

THE BAD BLOOD THROUGHOUT THE

YEARS.

FIRST, I WANNA CONGRATULATE

ALL THE INDUCTEES TONIGHT.

WE HAVE SOME UNBELIEVABLE TALENT

UP HERE AND WE ARE PROUD TO

INDUCT MY FATHER, VERNE GAGNE,

INTO THIS GREAT HALL OF FAME

PRESENTED BY THE WWE.

NOW, 20 YEARS AGO IF YOU HAVE

TOLD THAT, I'D HAVE SAID YOU'RE

ALL OUT OF YOUR MINDS.

AND NO, WE DID NOT JOIN THE

VINCE MCMAHON CLUB TO BE UP HERE

TODAY.

AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO

PRESENT THE 10-TIME AWA WORLD

HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, MY DAD,

VERNE GAGNE.

[MUSIC]

[CROWD CHEERING]

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO

SAY ON A DAY LIKE THIS.

AND THE FIRST THING I WANNA SAY

TO ALL IS ABOUT MR. MCMAHON WHO

PUT THIS TOGETHER.

[CROWD CHEERING]

WELL, I JUST WANNA TELL YOU

SOMETHING ABOUT HIM, I NEVER DID

LIKE THE GUY EITHER.

[CROWD CHEERING]

WELL, I'M JUST OVERWHELMED AS

I SAID BEFORE AND THE WONDERFUL

PLAQUE HERE BUT JUST A MEANING

OF BEING PUT IN A HALL OF FAME.

I CRIED.

I CRIED.

AND A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE

FOR ABOUT 30 OR 35 YEARS HAS

BEEN GREAT.

THAT WAS PRETTY EMOTIONAL,

YOU KNOW.

I WANNA DO ONE THING.

I SAID SOMETHING MAYBE A LITTLE

DEROGATORY ABOUT MISTER--WHAT'S

HIS NAME AGAIN?

MCMAHON.

OH, MCMAHON.

YES.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU.

I THOUGHT HE PUT ON JUST THE

GREATEST PROMOTION HERE FOR--AND

PLUS FOR PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

THE WAY HE DID IT, SO THANK YOU

ALL.

[CROWD CHEERING]

I WAS EXCITED BECAUSE IT FELT

LIKE AT THIS STAGE IN VERNE'S

LIFE, AT THIS TIME IN HIS LIFE.

IT WAS IMPORTANT AND HE DESERVED

TO HAVE PEOPLE SAY THANK YOU.

IT WAS A NICE, NICE GIFT TO

SEE THAT VERNE FINALLY WAS, YOU

KNOW, HONORED FOR THE

CONTRIBUTION HE MADE TO THIS

BUSINESS.

I INDUCTED VERNE GAGNE

BECAUSE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN

INDUCTED.

AND VERNE'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE

BUSINESS ARE ENORMOUS.

VERNE GAGNE DEFINITELY HAS A

PLACE IN THE HISTORY OF

PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

FIRST AND FOREMOST AS A

COMPETITOR IN HIS OWN RIGHT AND

PERFORMER FOR THAT REASON HE

SHOULD BE IN A HALL OF FAME.

TO RIC FLAIR'S, TO RICKY

STEAMBOAT'S, TO SGT.

SLAUGHTER'S AND THE LIST WOULD

GO ON AND ON OF THE MEN THAT

VERNE TRAINED.

VERNE GAVE THEM THEIR

OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY IN THIS

GAME.

AND FOR THAT LONG, VERNE GAGNE

IS A HALL OF FAMER.

WHAT MATTERS IS IN THE

BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZE

PEOPLE LIKE VERNE GAGNE AND

RECOGNIZE THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS

AND THAT'S WHAT HALL OF FAME IS

ALL ABOUT.

IT'S NOT ABOUT POLITICS.

[MUSIC]

VERNE'S AWA IS RESPONSIBLE

FOR SOME OF THE BIGGEST STARS

EVER.

NINETY-THREE PEOPLE THAT HE

PRODUCED OR TRAINED EVERYBODY IN

WRESTLING THAT WAS ANYBODY CAME

THROUGH THE AWA.

HARLEY RACE.

BLACKJACK MULLIGAN AND

BLACKJACK LANZA.

JESSE THE BODY VENTURA.

JIM BRUNZELL.

RAY STEVENS.

BOBBY HEENAN.

SGT.

SLAUGHTER.

NICK BOCKWINKEL.

BOB ORTON, JR.

THE CRUSHER AND THE MAD DOG.

RIC FLAIR.

BUDDY ROSE.

PAT PATTERSON.

THE IRON SHEIK.

BARON VON RASCHKE.

LARRY HENNIG.

CURT HENNIG.

THE ROAD WARRIORS.

THE GREATEST STAR OF ALL

TIME, HULK HOGAN.

MY GOD, DOESN'T IT SOUND LIKE

A LIST OF WHO'S WHO.

THE AWA DEVELOPS SOME GREAT

TALENT AND YOU CAN TIP YOUR HAT

TO VERNE GAGNE FOR DOING THAT.

I THINK THE LEGACY OF THE AWA

WOULD BE ONE OF AN EXTRAORDINARY

CONTRIBUTION TO THE BUSINESS IN

GENERAL.

HI, EVERYBODY AND WELCOME TO

ALL-STAR WRESTLING, THIS IS

WHERE YOU SEE THE GREAT ONE.

A FIRST CLASS OPERATION IN

TERMS OF WRESTLING PROMOTION.

IT HAS BEEN SOME KIND OF A

NIGHT.

THEY WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY

AS HAVING A VERY SUCCESSFUL

PROMOTION.

THIS IS PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING AT ITS FINEST.

THE AWA SHOULD HOLD ITS HEAD

HIGH.

IT PLAYED THE VERY KEY ROLE IN

THE LONG HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

THIS WAS AN ORGANIZATION THAT

WAS BUILT ON ATHLETIC

COMPETITION AND CHARACTERS.

NOBODY DID IT BETTER THAN VERNE

GAGNE.

IS THIS BUSINESS BETTER OFF

BECAUSE OF THE AWA AND ITS

CONTRIBUTIONS?

UNDOUBTEDLY, THAT ANSWER IS YES.

WE ENJOYED DOING WHAT WE DID

AND I HOPE THEY ENJOYED WATCHING

THIS.

GUYS GET BACK IN THE RING.

COME ON.

COME ON.

SAY CHEESE, CHEESE, CHEESE.

GREAT TIME.

IT WAS A--IT WAS A FUN PERIOD

OF TIME FOR ME.

I MEAN, WHAT CAN I TELL YOU, I

WAS THERE FOR 13 YEARS.

IT WAS FUN.

IF I HAD ANOTHER WISH, I MIGHT

WANNA DO THAT 17, 18 YEARS ALL

OVER AGAIN.

YOU WILL NOT SURVIVE LONG IF

YOU DON'T LEARN TO GET OVER IT.

IT WILL BE A LONG TIME

BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACT OF

VERNE GAGNE IS NO LONGER PART OF

THE SAME HISTORY.

IT WAS THE TIME AND A PLACE

THAT WE CAN NEVER GO BACK TO.

GOD BLESS VERNE GAGNE.

[MUSIC]

I THINK WE SET IT BEST AT THE

OPENING OF THE PROGRAM, THE

MAJOR LEAGUES OF PROFESSIONAL

WRESTLING.

[MUSIC]