Original subtitles

Hello, everybody. Let us know if you can see us and hear us all right.

With me, I have the lovely, the beautiful Amber Elise.

Hello.

I also have, at least from my perspective, next is Brago from BDA Law.

What's happening? What's happening? Good to be here. Happy to be here. Thanks

for having me, Murphy.

Yes. Thank you for being here. And of course, JD Legend with us again.

Chat here, you can say hi, too. Sorry, I didn't mean to.

Oh, hi.

What's up? How y 'all doing?

In the chat, we have Amber Elyse and I just finished Golden Age. Like, very

recently. We're still not well.

And then we have... A lot.

Yes, it's a lot. And then we have Jay and Brago, who y 'all have read the

and just did a reread in preparation for the stream, right?

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yep.

So how long ago was it that... each of you read it?

I'm going to say like 10 years ago.

10 years ago?

Maybe even like, because I watched it like 15 years ago, but I read it about

two years afterwards. So I'm just going to say between like 10 to 15 years ago.

Okay. You watched like the old 1990s?

Yeah, I watched the old, I watched the 1990s, then I watched the movies, then I

read it.

Yeah, that was my route, too. I would say I read it eight years ago.

Okay. Yeah.

Or maybe eight, six years ago, something like that.

But it was a time when I was kind of losing my joy for one piece a little

Mm -hmm.

Just how things are playing out, and I just needed something different.

And tried Berserk, and it just gave my joy back.

So I want to say...

Probably six years ago or something like that.

Going through the deepest depression made you. Yeah.

Yeah. But I felt like I needed it. I felt like I needed it. It was just a

beautiful story. A beautiful tragedy is what I call it. So yeah, around then.

So how do you find it on reread? Do you, for each of you, do you find that you

appreciate it on a different, in a different way than the first time?

I. definitely appreciate it in a different way i think it also reminds me

is literally to me my favorite arc in the story uh especially golden age and

also just how miura writes his imagery realizing that no one can match him on

double page spreads that no one can match him on like facial expressions and

like like storytelling with very little dialogue it's just like When I'm reading

it, I'm just like, I'm a much smarter person. I'm more educated on like

storytelling now. So as I'm looking at it again, I'm like, oh, this guy really

is. I was selling him short, which is crazy to say, considering selling me

short. So like for me, it's been great. I'm not going to lie. I can't wait to

make a video on this because it's been different.

Yeah, I think the reread, like initially reading it is just like it's an escape,

right? Just something different, different tone, different setting on the

reread.

It feels like a tragic love story.

Yeah.

It's like, it's so many different connections and threads there between

different characters, but it, it, it feels more like a love story because I'm

taking more time. Like I already know what happened. So like I'm paying

attention to the characters a bit more and it's, I think that's what I see on

the reread more.

Go ahead, Amber.

No, I completely agree. I read a ton of romance books and I watch a ton of

romance movies.

And I love a lot of tragic ones.

I think out of everything I've read, this with Judo, the Judo situation.

And then you also have Guts and Cosplay. There's so many things that happen. But

that Judo part where we in the moment that we find out he's not only going to

die, which killed me.

But that he also had this love for Casca that he not only hid, but that he also

still wanted to make sure she was loved by allowing her to still be with Guts.

That, to me, is the most tragic love story I've ever seen. And it hit me. It

one of the hardest things that hit me in this story. And I loved it. It was done

so well. And I'll never forget it. It will always hit me.

Yeah, as I was watching through your videos, Amber Elise, you were so honed

on the romance.

A big aspect for me was trying to figure out the dynamics between the three, you

know, because, like, each was so loyal to each other, you know? Like, Guts

really found his purpose in...

In Griffith, as well as his dream of being next to him, Casca's loyalty to

Griffith, and then that friction of back and forth between them, and then, of

course, Gus and Casca.

Their dynamic between the three of them was so complicated and ever -moving in

my mind, especially when everything toppled with Griffith,

like when Gus walked away, and then Griffith just spun out of control. Yes.

Right? And figuring out, he clearly cared for Gus. He clearly like respected

him. He said at the fountain that he didn't consider him a friend because he

didn't respect him because he didn't have his own dream.

Brago, I'm really curious about your thoughts on this because we talked about

this a little bit before.

But I like I think he did.

And I think that that was a mask for like saying what he thought Charlotte

wanted to hear in order for her to admire him.

And that was never meant to be heard by guts because it.

I think it was clear that he really did respect Gus and really was letting him

in.

And so when Gus left, it was like betrayal of the person that I trusted

anyone else.

Yeah, I think with Griffith, he's an interesting character because he says

things like that, but then he talks to Casca about, I have my dreams, but I

don't want to remain clean while everybody else is unclean. So I'm going

whatever it takes.

So it's almost like there's care there, but I think he's still trying to sift

through his feelings. And the person above all is guts. And so, like you

he's trying to impress Charlotte, but I don't think he realized just how much

guts meant to him until that final, that battle they had where he really didn't

want guts to go.

And at that moment, you know, it's just, it's so much emotion, you losing in

front of the people that care about you, Guts walking away without turning back,

without looking back.

Casca seeing that, even her saying to herself, do I want him to leave? I think

want him to stay.

And Griffith dealing with all of those emotions at the same time. So I think he

definitely respected Guts more than he thought.

Yeah. But you didn't realize it until it left.

yeah so that was impactful for him big impact yes it was to me there was this

masked off scene where like i think griffith is constantly being what he

other people want him to be and there's a lot of authenticity tangled into it

but it's also i am who i need you to who i need you to think i am so that you'll

be loyal to me and there was a scene where it was after um it was after they

burned everybody alive and and uh

And then Guts and Griffith were alone together.

And Griffith asked him, am I dirty?

Or no, no, no. He asked him, do you think I'm cruel?

And Guts was like, you don't have to do that with me.

You know?

What's all that? He's like, what's all that?

Yeah, exactly. He's asking Guts, like, I have you doing all the dirty work.

You know, how do you feel about that? He's like, you don't have to do all

Yeah. And Guts was like, don't do that with me. Yeah, yeah.

You ordered me to do it. I did it. What?

To me, that was the moment for Griffith where he realized, oh, this is actual a

friendship, not what I thought it was.

But Guts is already resigning himself to kind of be out at that point. Like, yo,

you know, this is the last hurrah. It's over.

You know, so it's just everything kind of crumbling in on itself at the same

time.

Yeah, it's really, it's incredible. It's like you can watch the dominoes fall

after a certain point.

Yeah, even Casca. I mean, I think she's like obviously a key part to all this.

Like, I would say her development, her, I guess her initial view of Guts until

they fell over and then he had to protect her from the bandits and

was willing to sacrifice.

You know, just even her, you can say her evolution in a way.

Seeing him in a different light while Guts was looking at himself in a

light trying to find purpose.

You know, and...

Griffith, he still had his own purpose and things he was trying to figure out.

He didn't see any of it because they were already saying, look, it feels like

he's so far away, you know, and all these, all these things were happening

he didn't realize it. So it was like, it was like just seeing, like you said,

the dominoes fall and it felt like there's nothing they could do to stop

mean, the catalyst for all of it felt like that conversation that Griffith had

with Charlotte that got overheard because it just.

it just sent him into a spiral where now it's like all right maybe I do need

purpose yeah and I think that conversation I wonder do you think it

Gus and Kafka together a little bit because they were both in they both

overheard that and they both were hurt by it you know and like they both went

into that battle weak because of it so I wonder or because they weren't in their

right minds and then that brought them to the cave which bonded them

I think it was confirmation for Casca.

I feel like she already felt that.

They said it was almost like worship, how she looked at Griffith.

I feel like for Guts, it was almost like a realization of something that he

didn't know he needed.

He's like, what?

I thought we're kind of all in this together. Of course, it's your goal,

dream. We're following you. But he's like, damn, do I need purpose? Is that

I need to be your friend?

Yeah.

And it's almost like opening a can of worms that you can't close. Because then

he's just thinking about, okay, maybe this is what I need to do to stand

you. So I think for Casper confirmation, for Guts, it was just almost like a

whole new world.

Yeah. Yeah,

do you think it was kind of like an acceptance on her part a little bit?

Hmm.

That's... i think so um but i feel like even with guts and even him trying

to leave uh she started to consider it even after they rescued

griffith and he came back was like yo come with me like maybe maybe this can

happen and after seeing his state she's i can't i can't leave him so um

it's it was a lot it was a lot after that um

after that conversation that both characters went through but like you

conversation that they overheard and then them getting stuck in that cave

definitely you know kind of got them closer because if you're up here and

griffith you're saying that you're separated from these two now they're

right if we're on the same level they're automatically bonding now you know and

of course they're finding out more about each other through like proximity and

stuff like that so right um yeah that that that's part of what drove them

together but also

Casca, she was jealous of Guts more than anything.

It was jealousy more than anything.

So for her, I think understanding Guts on another level and what he was willing

to do, it was something beautiful. And I think even after Guts came

back and they were about to save Griffith, Casca said something to

Guts. that was uh i thought it was like you know she's spitting she said um

she said i gave you a wound she said i want you to give me a wound as well like

it's just their their bond and the growth of it and where it started i

it's a it's one of the most beautiful things in the story like by far like

and gut

I think even going – I mean kind of the way Amber Lee said it as well, like at

the very beginning where she was the one that warmed Guts up for two days, two

nights straight, two days and two nights.

When he first ran into the Band of Hog, he lost to Griffith.

And then all the way to him joining the Band of Hog.

And one of the pages that really struck out to me that made me think, huh, I

wonder what she's thinking.

When Guts had first – I think he had his first battle.

i'm with the band of hawk and judo had that conversation with him and then he

was thinking like he was thinking to himself like a judo told him like you'll

find a place where you belong then he had that conversation with griffith

you're seeing uh judo's explanation of we don't really know who griffith is we

don't know if he's good or evil we don't know what he wants we don't know

anything this guy is really like a magician at one point then he's a child

the other point next thing you know everyone's following him and he just

magic out of that so it's like We just want to see where he's going. So Guts is

hearing all this and he's like, okay, who is this Griffith guy? And then you

the water fight that they have and Childish. It's the first time you really

them be friends.

And then Guts, after that whole experience, after everything that

Gambino, he's standing outside by the water and looking up and he's like, a

place where I belong. Huh, I guess I can stay here.

Then he gets pushed into water by Rickett. Rickett is like, you know

congratulations on your first battle whatever and he's like you can call me

and pippin pulls up rickett falls into the water they're having this all fun

time all that build up all that moment and then as that chapter ends you just

look up to the top and casca's watching everything with like this one expression

just like a an expression of curiosity

The fact that she's been paying attention to him and his growth from

on to get to where we are is like, okay. So it just makes me think that maybe

because Griffith was such a magnanimous figure in her life, she always had those

feelings for Guts considering, you know how they say romantic couples, they're

playful fighting, they're always fighting again.

Guts goes off on his own and she's like, can I talk to you for a minute? And

then... The guys are like, oh, they're about to fight again.

They're about to fight. And I'm just like, this whole back and forth thing

they're going on is like, I think she always had feelings for him. But because

Griffith had such a presence, she was like, well, I got Griffith, so this

mean nothing.

But she doesn't realize what's going on inside her, the fact that she's on him

so much. You think she always had feelings for him?

I feel like she was trying to say things that she felt Griffith would say in the

moment. I feel like she's like almost protecting Griffith. Like when Griffith

was with all the nobles and then they're like, all right, it's a line. And Gus

is like, ain't no line, man. We're just going to walk up. And then she like

punches him and she's like, why are you this way? You know, where it's like,

she's like, you have to be this way. We have to be this type of way for

Griffith. Like, why are you doing this? So I feel like for her, she feels like

she was the one kind of helping them to uphold his dream. And I think for

Griffith, he saved her. Right. And I think from.

The first time she laid eyes on him, he was probably everything she would want.

But I think for guts and the evolution and the development, kind of seeing

it, I think feelings started to develop through that development with guts and

also like the time that they spent together.

I don't think she had feelings for guts right from the beginning.

I don't think she liked him, honestly.

There are them things, right? And I believe she read all these romance

so this is a trope. It's a trope.

They don't know they like him, but they do. And I'm saying that I think it's one

of those things where it's like you have every reason to hate this person, but

you also have this feeling that you hate the feeling that you have for him,

which makes you hate him more. And I think that's what I'm saying. Maybe it's

canon. I don't know.

I think she loved how, or she was envious of how Griffith treated Guts.

think that's what she wanted.

She wanted to be his sword.

She wanted to be that.

And she did everything to try to be perfect for him.

And Guts did everything wrong.

Smelly, seedy, out of order, doing everything wrong. And Griffith's willing

do anything for him. And he'll do anything for him. Anything. Anything.

was just like, the disrespect.

After the Zod fight.

When Griffith went in and got really hurt, he's like, yo, why would he jump

for you? You're the reason why all this happened.

Why for you? Not only that, but you're putting his dream at risk.

He cares about you more than me.

I think she hated him. She hated his guts.

I think she hated him.

No, Jay!

I think she just wished she was him.

True. That is what I think.

I agree with that.

And I think just like with already the affinity that Griffith had for Guts that

she's envious of and in finding out who Guts truly is, it was just like all that

culminated where she's like, damn, I guess I see what Griffith sees.

And so it was just like all that culminated where now she's starting to

feelings for Guts.

I don't know. I don't think she was feeling him initially. I feel like she

that way with Griffith, too. I don't think she was in love with Griffith at

There's a scene on Grey's Anatomy that I love because you have these two

doctors at one point who fall in love.

And at the end of it, when they break up, she says, I realized I never wanted

be with you. I wanted to be you.

And sometimes that's how I felt.

It was like with Costco and a lot of times when you're in these positions,

I'm thinking of corporate America, but there's a lot of times when you're like

the only woman in a situation and you're around a lot of men in power where

because you want, you want that, you want what they can exude, what the

positions they have. It's so easy to think that you're falling in love with

when really you're like, no, I want what you have. I want that. I want to be

able to live that. And sometimes I feel like that's what Costco was going

through.

But at the same time, I don't think she knew her why, her purpose for a lot of

it. Why do I even want to do this?

That's kind of how I took it.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of them.

Go ahead, Jerry. Oh, go ahead, bro. No, no, no. Go ahead. Well, I was saying

like purpose, like Amber was saying with like a lot of them.

Some of them had it, but I think for Casca, she was just blinded by who

was and she was just all in on his dream.

And it goes back to the fact that he was the one who saved her and brought her

out of her struggle.

And so she felt like every day she had to somewhat repay him.

And that makes me think of something Griffith said to Guts.

He said, do I need a reason why I save

you every time? Yeah. Right? And it was just like something that Guts was like,

oh, shit.

It made me say the same thing. I was like, when you do something for a

do you need a reason every time?

And Gus has never been shown that kind of loyalty, affection, care, anything.

So for him, it's like, wait, I'm valuable just because?

I don't need a reason every time. It's just because you're you.

That's it.

That's totally foreign in his life.

It's so unsurprising to me the reason why people are loyal to Griffith.

You can call a character an enigma. You can call a character dashing and also

mysterious and charismatic, but also sharp edged and

brutal and cruel. Like you can call a character a lot of things and then say

we're all drawn to him. Cool. But to make the reader just as drawn, like to

the reader actually draw closer to because we don't understand him either.

And we want to.

And the closer we get, we see him being exactly what the story is telling us he

is. For Kafka, he rescued her from a horrible fate and he gave her a purpose

he gave her a sword and he gave her a blanket.

He was her comfort and he was her guide and he was her savior.

And then for Gutt, he was the one person that showed him any kind of love, any

kind of affection, any kind of like...

value and he gave him a purpose he was wandering he was laying on the ground

after fighting after being chased away from his home and fighting off a bunch

wolves laying on the ground looking up the sky saying do i have a place in this

world yeah is there a purpose for me and he was given that purpose by griffiths

so like you can see how he fills whatever role a person desperately needs

in their lives so that they'll devote themselves completely to him yeah

Amber, speaking of Griffith, I watched your movie, and oh boy, did you have a

journey with Griffith.

I hate that we even have to discuss him, but I know we can't get through this

discussion without... He's got to be one of the best antagonists in all of

fiction.

Yeah, Griffith and I did not get along.

Oh, you didn't like Griffith?

No, y 'all, I need you to see this journey she went on.

So, Amber Lee, you started with Black Swordsman.

So, like, you saw him in the God hand.

And yet, lads, her whole way through her read -through, she's like, Griffith,

prove to me that you're good.

Show me something here. Like, give me something because I don't know about

So please take us through your journey with Griffith.

Well, here's the thing.

I try to just keep an open mind because I don't know, I don't have all the

evidence presented to me, right? Yes, may his name be forgotten.

In my head.

I'm like, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that whatever he

I'm going to hate. But hopefully there's some kind of logical basis, some kind

of logical reasoning as to why he did it. And it was reaching because you

clearly see from the count that it wasn't going to be anything that

But I still had hope. And I felt so deceived because as we're going through

this, he's definitely doing sketchy things that I don't love.

But we are getting this side of him where we can't fully read him.

gathering this group of people who they they don't understand we're the readers

and we're not following everything he's doing right but we're trying to put some

kind of trust in him and they are with him and they still don't know everything

and they're putting some kind of trust in him so i'm like okay if these people

who i love judo pippin crock is even though he's crazy um

We hate Crocus in this house. Go ahead.

I'm going to be the only one. I ended up loving him.

Hold on.

You hate Griffin, but you like Crocus?

I think he's a true teller, man.

Stop! He says what people are thinking in the moment that nobody wants to say.

Thank you.

You can't say he's real. He is honest.

He's honest.

He's honest.

He's trash.

That's what he is. Maybe so, but he's honest.

He's always speaking when no one wants to hear his voice. Nobody wants to hear

his talk, man. He's just yapping. That's all he does is yap. But that's who he

is. He's just being himself.

I have to respect it.

And you see that he's more layered.

Time goes on.

I think what sold me on him was whenever Gus was about to leave the Band of the

Hawk and he was being so mean to him. But you could tell it's because he had

much love.

He wanted him to stay.

He wanted him to stay.

But he can't come out and say it.

Even when everything happened to Griffith, he's like, that didn't happen

of you. You know that, right?

Bro, he's kind of a hater.

But it's like, he's somebody, he definitely cared about guts leaving, but

just, he didn't want to say it. That's the type of person he was. Like I said,

he's partly trash, but I think he's, you know.

Even to the end of his death, he was him. He still had that little corcus way

like, am I saying his name right?

Corcus? You're saying it right.

Corcus. He had this way of like, I don't know. He was so authentically who he

was. And I just, I love characters like that. Even if he's annoying, he's

authentically annoying.

And so.

Oh,

I don't like him.

Yeah. So Griffith.

We got to see different sides of him. Now, when he got to the Charlotte part,

was done with him. I was already.

Like, I was good. After Guts leaves?

Yes. Yes.

After Guts leaves and he does whatever he does with Charlotte, I was good.

Whatever he does.

That whole, I didn't like.

He seemed so weak to me in that moment. And I know he was going through losing

guts. We all lose people.

That's not how you respond.

Especially as.

a leader especially as like you can have your pain but then to take advantage of

somebody like that I just I and in the end I mean some people say that she said

no right and she didn't want to be able to say that she was okay with it to me

it doesn't matter you knew how naive she was you knew how much she liked you and

admired you and you took advantage of that because you weren't feeling good

about yourself that is such a weak thing to me and I can't respect it and It

only led to me seeing more things about him that I just couldn't.

And then it just got 10 times worse. And now I don't even speak his name unless

I have to.

I think it was him trying to exert control. He felt out of control. And so

was trying to grasp that control in a place where he knew he could.

Yeah, I get it. But it.

I think it's just hurt people, hurt people, you know, and I think it's the

situation where somebody goes to a bad breakup, then they go to the bar.

And they just.

try to exert that pain in in another way and i think for him like you said he

took advantage of her but i think it's just he didn't know how else to kind of

deal with that like he's not right for how he handled things

but i think that like you said amber kind of exposed griffith for how kind of

weak and frail he always was because even um i think it's casket said it

griffith that griffith It's not that he's strong. It's that he finds a way to

strong every day, finds different ways to be strong. And I think losing guts,

that kind of broke him. And it's no surprise that that was like the

his demise from that point forward. So I wouldn't say I was done with him after

that, but it was just – that was kind of the beginning of the end for sure.

Jay, thoughts on Griffith? I'm sorry. No, go ahead. No, go Jay. Go Jay.

So I actually agree with your assessment of Griffith doing the Charlotte thing

because I thought it was weak. I thought it was really weak.

And I think the way I saw it was he always viewed – he loved guts, but he

viewed guts as his, like, favorite possession, like the biggest shiny toy

he'd ever received. He said, you belong to me when he's about to leave. Yeah.

Yeah, he said, you belong to me.

I'll never forget the phrase. He told Guts, Guts was the first person, I

in the Band of the Hawks, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that actually

what Griffith's ambition was because Judo said, we don't even know what

really wants, but we're just following him. And then you see Griffith tell

I want to build a kingdom and I'm going to choose the place where you die.

So that whole idea of Guts being a possession, but his favorite possession,

know how kids can be with their favorite toy.

Nobody can touch it. Nobody can look at it. It's got to be taken care of. If

there's a scratch on it, they're crying for hours. So, like, it was a

friendship, but Griffith in his mind always knew, like, all right, Guts is

going to leave.

This is my possession.

He's going to be my key to everything I need.

So when Guts basically gained sentience to Griffith, Griffith is like, wait a

minute.

My possession, my most prized possession is leaving.

And it's like he threw a tantrum. It's like a child throwing a tantrum.

And he threw a tantrum. And the first thing kids do when they throw a tantrum

just they go to try and find something else. Yeah, they just crash out. So in

that moment, it's like, yeah, he was garbage. But in that moment, I just

it's like it's been building up so much because Miura has been writing Griffith

as this child that's just –

So much bravado that believes, like, this childlike ambition I have just to

a kingdom is going to take me all the way.

But at the end of the day, he never really became an adult. And he's been

winning. Also.

Oh, big time.

Huge. That's the thing, isn't it? Like, he acted recklessly by going to

Charlotte like that and ended up throwing everything away when if he had

stayed on track, he.

He was right there.

Yeah, he was there. He was on track. It wouldn't have changed.

Like after that. Because he's about to... He probably marries her, right?

Yeah, I mean, he probably could have killed the king and then just married

Yeah.

But that one night, he threw it all away.

Well, this is the thing. And I think y 'all make great points that do make me

think. But the reason why I just...

I like I get his pain and that that was a big thing for him. But when you

continue, if you allow a person to like if they get to do something like that,

that to me is pretty.

It's very off putting.

And you're like, but he was going through this.

then it's going to be but he but now it's going to keep escalating because

there's no there's no stopping it it's more like trying to process why I don't

need like he there were so many other avenues he could have taken and the

thing with Griffith in general that bothers me is it's choices that he makes

continues and yes this was an early start to me not liking him and maybe

the board but it did inevitably lead to him being what I thought he was because

if you're willing to take those steps like i could already read him i was like

oh i kind of see how you are yeah like flags early yeah here griffith going to

charlotte that night was disgusting like i'm talking about what was going on in

his head is not saying oh he's feeling bad so like it's not justifying it oh

sure for sure but i'm saying why i personally yeah for me why it was like

was open -minded to seeing what actions he would take because i didn't know but

as far as like how i was looking at him like his personal character his morality

that's where i was kind of done yeah yeah i think i didn't even try to do it

again kind of yeah oh yeah i was like all right man yeah

yeah i was wondering about that when i read it i was like is he just trying to

do that again and he just can't

Yeah, it was strange.

It was strange. Yeah, he was completely out of control. So he's just going back

to the same bit.

Cam said, I hope Griffith gets the worst ending possible and Gus at least gets a

better sweet ending because I doubt he will have a happy ending.

Doesn't feel like the kind of story that would give us.

So Amber, did you feel bad for Griffith after he went through that year of

torture? Because he.

He got torn up pretty bad. I think that was, that was pretty bad.

That was, that was, that was, yeah.

Yeah. That was a lot.

Especially when the King is in a, he creep himself.

Yeah. Like. Yeah.

He's there.

That's a whole other thing. Whether she felt bad for him or not. Like, don't

think about what he did after. Right. Don't think about what he did after.

Right.

Just only think about in that moment, did you feel bad for him?

I'm trying to remember. Did I feel... I think I did not like the level of

torture that he got.

I can say that.

The nail... It felt more extensive.

A little bit.

Slightly.

When he pulled back the sheet.

Oh, no.

Well, it's the brago's point. The fact that the king was disgusting as a person

and had the audacity to torture Griffith. That was crazy.

That dude is wild.

Disgusting. Nasty. Nasty old man.

Yep. I felt so bad for her. It was like back to back.

That poor child.

I know.

Yeah. Charlotte, she was going through it.

Here's the thing, though. You hated the king even more than Griffith because,

well, because he was her father.

But, too, because we have no context for the king. Like, he's barely a

character. He kind of just showed up, did something despicable, and then left.

Yeah. And to me, like, I don't know.

The Griffith scene, I felt, had narrative weight.

The king scene, I'm like, why do we even have to do that?

But with Griffith, it's like there's so much complexity to him, you know? Yeah.

That it's like you want to understand.

stand the mind, even if you can, even if you would condemn the act, you know?

Whereas with the king, it's like, why?

Like, no!

Why are you here?

Yeah. You're here!

It's possessive to the point that he's, like, almost on another level. Like, you

belong to me.

Like, I don't know. It was, the king was strange.

I mean, but I know, like, now we're talking about, like, how terrible

was. But they're like some good moments with Griffith.

Like, I mean, how he handled Julius.

That whole plan.

I did like that, unfortunately.

Wait, are you talking about the assassination plot?

Yeah.

You liked it when he killed the kid?

I don't know. That wasn't Griffith.

I think the kid was... What?

What?

Collateral damage.

It only took him 36 minutes.

It only took him 36 minutes. 36 minutes until now. It was going too well.

Well, Julius had to go, though. He had to go.

He did.

He did.

But Gus didn't mean to kill the kid.

And then Julius was abusing the kid. You know, like.

So we killed the kid?

What about his misery?

I'm not saying we killed the kid. He didn't mean to kill the kid.

Alright, Pete.

But he's kind of like... I mean, I know he didn't see, but he drove that kid

through a wall with a knife. Gus is strong.

Gus is strong.

I don't know, man.

I don't know.

Since we're on this, this is actually... Okay, I do want to talk about...

scenes like most impactful scenes for the hype or for the emotion or whatever

because this scene actually makes the list for me specifically because of

reaction like the way that he after he's after he's done it the way that he

looks at his hand and then like his eyes there because i don't know if you

remember this but in black swordsman he basically does the same thing when after

after he saves teresa after she was falling and uh

And in the bottom right hand corner, he looks at his hand and then like had that

kind of anxious moment again as well.

And that was one of those things that hit me like a truck with the little boy,

because after he had unintentionally harmed a child, which, you know, guts

never want to do. No.

And then he looks at what he's just done and it hits him.

Yeah. And then it recontextualizes what happened with Teresa and why he had such

a visceral reaction to harming her, even though he was trying to hurt her, but

he still harmed her with her, with his sword.

And the fact that from there on, he saw himself as a monster and he was right.

Like he did. He, he took an order. I want you to kill someone. Great. I don't

need details.

I'll go kill someone. And he just does. And he doesn't think about it. And

anyone else that happens to walk through the door is collateral damage.

And when it's a child, it's like, oh, this is what I've done.

This is kind of like, this happens. This is part of the collateral. And you

don't think about it necessarily because it's like no name, no face.

But then once you see it's a child, it's like, like you said, it all hits you.

And it's like, yeah, this is, I guess this is who I am.

And especially when you think about, like, how Griffith feels about it. It

you question everything.

Everything, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, RIP, homie.

Well, what do you guys think would have been Gut's solution if he would have

known the kid was about to walk in? Like, what would you have done, or what

would you think that he would have done?

Kidnapped, hostage, you know, just a few things. I mean, I know I said that

lightly, but, like, I'm...

He's alive, but at this point, it's like a political hostage.

There's ways to keep him alive.

I think at that point, you can't leave the kid.

You gotta take the kid.

And if you take the kid, the kid's gonna die.

Because Griffith's gonna kill the kid.

Oh, I didn't think about that.

Why do you think Griffith would have killed the kid? He allowed kids to fight

with him.

Yeah, but I don't think that kid... Do you think that kid would have stayed

the Band of the Heart?

I mean, possibly, but then it's like, but it's like, but if, but then that,

it leaves it open -ended and it trails right back to Griffith. And then I don't

know if you can leave that. Do you send them away?

I don't know.

I feel like at the point that the kid was in the doorway and still in shadows,

guts could have, he could have gone out and not seen well enough to be

identified. But at that point, does Guts know how well the kid saw his face?

Sure, but I was wondering.

He goes back. He's like, well, a kid saw me.

I don't know if he saw my face.

Then it's like.

Yeah. It could have messed everything up. You're not wrong.

Yeah. So either you take the kid or you kill the kid.

I mean, that's like you.

Griffith gave Guts a goal to go and kill the king's brother.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

If Guts is seen.

But the thing is, though, he plowed through so many people after that.

He went big sword, go bird. And then Adonis, he was in line to the throne,

right?

I don't know about Adonis. Honestly, two birds.

No, but he killed so many soldiers.

You cannot tell me that he made it out of that without being identified.

I just don't believe that the kid identifying him after everything that

after and everybody that saw him after would have actually made a difference.

Did he kill everybody that saw him?

I don't think all of them. It was like he was a slaughter.

But there were other people around.

Because he had a hood, right? I mean.

I mean, it is funny that we talk about how tragic it is that the boy was

And it is.

But also, like.

Hundreds others, you know, like life over, I guess. Cause he's a kid. He kind

like, you know, the narrative focused on the emotional weight that had on guts.

So we feel it more than just, you know, a bunch of bodies, which, you know, just

in general, there's a lot of, there's a lot of death, a lot of needless death.

Omega studios wants to recommend kingdom.

Have any of y 'all read that?

I love kingdom.

I love the greatest binge ever.

One of the greatest. No, arguably the greatest binge ever.

100%. So good. You don't stop reading Kingdom once you start. You don't. I'm

caught. It's 800 chapters in. I am caught up and it's still good.

Still.

And the live action real good too. The live action is.

I don't know if you've seen the live action.

It's the only anime live action that I'd give like an 8, 9 out of 10. It's good,

man. It's good.

Kingdom's great.

That is one of the most emotionally impactful scenes among many others.

Do y 'all have any that really stand out to you?

I have one that's really small, but I think about it all the time.

It's right before they're about to, I forgot this man's name intentionally.

The one who, he looks like the cart Titan from Attack on Titan.

He has the, I cannot think of it. Am I wild?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, Murphy loves wild.

Loves wild. It's her favorite character.

Jay, I'm going to stop talking to you. Behind the scenes.

Boy.

Can't really master emotional scenes.

Not worst scenes.

well yeah that that was he was a terrible character but yeah guts was

um take him on or take on like his group that's when they were all charging them

and they weren't prepared like the band of the hawk and so he was saying go

ahead i'll go and then he like looks at his side and pippin is right next to him

and i just cried i thought just pippin

With such a, like, just a loyal, sweet character. Yes, a man of few words.

But he always showed up when it was time. And he was the only one. And I

they're all doing stuff, right? But he was the only one to just stand by him.

Yeah. And it just, I think about it all the time.

I thought it was so sweet. He was also the one that, when Guts didn't want to

join the band, when he was like, no, I'm not partying with y 'all. He picked him

up. Picked him up.

Elbowed him in the mouth.

And he still kept going. He's like, all right, so we're not stopping.

You don't have a choice.

Sorry, buddy.

I think a one that we can all agree on is when Teresia still lashed out at

Guts after he saved her and the sad look on his face as he walked away and Puck

seeing it for the first time and realizing Guts genuinely has emotions

was hurt. That faith he made actually hurt my feelings a lot.

Yeah, Black Swords. Oh, yeah. But that carried on.

That was the first moment that comes to my mind.

But another one as well is... I wouldn't say it got me emotional,

but it made me smile.

And you remember when Griffith was holding up the Behelit for the first

When he was talking to Guts and they were having that conversation?

Yeah, the splashback.

Yeah, the friendship that they had and how... the conversation with judo before

judo i'm talking about how he can turn into a child at any moment and in new

york instantly cashes in on that you see him act like a child in that moment

where he just seems like a little boy who just found a rock like a really cool

rock yeah and i was just like oh this is that childlike nature and guts is

seeing it just after he talked to judo and i was like wow like this guy's

a child like he's a big baby cool yeah like let me see

Go ahead, Brian.

I feel like a lot of the moments that are kind of just small, but they're so

impactful throughout, at least up until Golden Age.

Now I remember that. I remember that for sure.

Involves judo.

Yeah. He's so good, man. I'm thinking about when Judo, when Guts was about to

leave, he was talking to Judo.

And then they talk about dreams.

and judo's like i don't know if something's wrong or if you just need

something that's wrong with people in general but if that's what you got to do

that's what you got to do yeah i was just like damn where is this like he

he out of all the characters he's somebody that consistently he cares for

people and what they genuinely want like he's a

super genuine person. Even that moment, Gus is like, I got to go. I got to find

purpose. He's like, I mean, I don't know really, but that's what you got to do.

That was the moment that kind of stuck out. I stayed on that page for a while

because it's like, I guess that's true. He's like, is something wrong or is it

just you? But either way, you got to figure it out.

Shout out to Judo, man.

Yeah, and the fact that he loved Casca and he was...

And he was asking Griffith, would you consider her?

Yeah, would you leave with her?

What about her?

Yeah.

That's putting your feelings to the side completely.

Oh, he does.

Yeah.

And it's different, too, because with Guts, you know, he does care about

And I think he knows it at this point.

But he still, he doesn't believe, I don't think he believes that she would

choose him over Griffith. Because in his mind.

you know fountain scene like griffith is way up here he's still way down here

and until he can make himself equal with griffith for his own sake but also

casca would never look at him until he's there either in his mind and and so for

him he's like i have to be the kind of man that she would want whereas with

judo he knows i'm not the kind of man she wants I want her to have Yes, you

Judo. You are.

If you would have just told her she would have chose you. She said that's

he would say, isn't it?

Yeah.

Murphy, you don't think you would have picked Judo?

In the right circumstance.

I think so, too. But I wonder if Casca is unintentionally drawn to ambition.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because, like, The whole thing happened after Guts came

and, like, he saved him. And now they're like, well, Casca was leading us. And

now it's like, we need you. And now they have that moment. So, like, I think

ambition also moves her. But that doesn't mean Judo doesn't have any

But, like, I think in the right circumstance she chooses him. But she

choose him if Griffith and Guts were around.

Yeah, third choice.

What a prize.

I don't think he'd be third choice.

Oh, your romance.

Don't know if it was talked about yet, but has everyone read chapter 83, the

last chapter? And if so, thought lads, have you read it?

I don't remember if I have the last chapter.

It's one that the lore around it is that if you, if you read official, you

haven't read it, but I guess Mira wrote it originally and then asked for it not

to be official. So there are scans of it, but it's not.

It's not canon because he redacted it before it could go to official.

I have not read it.

I don't remember it.

I don't remember it.

Wait. Did you read it?

I did read it.

Oh, you did? I did read it.

Is that the chapter?

You didn't read it yet.

Sorry. Yeah.

I think I did read it. Yeah.

I think I did read it. Jay, have you read it?

Have I read?

83. It's the lost chapter or the one that Mira redacted and didn't go to

official. No, I don't think so.

Apparently it's a big lore chapter that answers a lot of questions.

Is it about causality?

I don't know.

More about reasons.

I haven't read it just because Mira said that he didn't want it to be official.

And so I was like, all right, well.

I'll just read the story as it is then.

Oh, I have read it. I have. I'm looking at it. Really? I'm the only one?

Yeah. It is about COVID. I know. I did read it. I did read it. Okay.

And release, was it good?

It made me a little mad, which I know they're going to be like, no, but it

me a little mad.

But it was informative.

More than anything, that's what it is.

Cool, cool, cool.

Jay, before the stream started, you were talking about something that you pulled

from your reread so far, specifically about guts processing trauma.

I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah, I think

When I was watching one of your early reviews of Golden Age, you mentioned how

Guts is always holding his sword.

And when I was going through that reread, I started like, all right, let

attention to this and see.

And as I kept, obviously, we see the atrocity that happens with Donovan,

I'll never be comfortable reading.

You're not supposed to be comfortable with it. No, but you know what I mean.

Some people make jokes.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

Seeing how Guts reacted and how he slept with his sword afterwards, as if that

sword is his blanket. You know how kids have their favorite stuffed animal or

kids have their favorite blanket and they hold it tight when they go to

The fact that Guts sleeps with his sword like a blanket.

Yeah. And it carried on at every stage of his life because throughout the

beginning of Golden Age, you see him grow from 11 to 13 to 15 to 18.

In every stage of his life, he's still sleeping with his sword in the same way.

And that sword is the only thing he trusts.

Like, literally, it was the only thing until the Band of Hawk came in and then

he found some other people.

But for the most part, that sword was the only thing. He never left the sword.

The sword is the only thing he could trust. And seeing how everything

with the Golden Age, it literally went back to now. His sword is, again, his

safe place. That's the only thing he has, and it's the only thing he'll never

let go is that sword.

And just seeing how even with Gambino, I hate Gambino with everything I have, by

the way. I think Gambino is beyond reprehensible. But, like, even with the

sword that Guts had at an early age when Gambino was teaching him how to fight,

still, he's like, you can use smaller swords. He's like, no, I'm going to use

this sword. Like, this is it. It's like it was attached to him at the early age.

And to see how that sword developed for him, it just made me.

really... I guess I'd never seen childhood trauma depicted in that way

consistently made upon... What's the word? It's like consistently emphasized.

There you go. In a very small way throughout the entirety of Gunner's

Golden Age, right? So I think that's something that I picked up on that

opened my eyes. I was like, oh, this is a really neat thing I did.

Even in that scene with Casca, like, when they're together and he's like...

Thinking about the trauma.

Yeah. Like choking her.

And not realizing it.

Yep. It stayed with him.

Big time.

Big time. There's a lot of little clues about it too.

Like when he first joins the band of the Hawk. Against his will.

And then.

Freaking Corcus.

And his crew.

Are at the lip of the tent. And they're like we're going to kill him.

We're going to super kill this guy.

And, and Casca disperses them.

He wouldn't have done anything.

And, uh, and, and, but that, you know, he goes out and he says to Casca, he's

like, I'm, you know, I appreciate it. That's two. I owe you now. And Casca's

like, I wish you were dead.

I hope you'll die.

You know? And, and, and then he goes back into the tent. And before that he

been laying down in his cot, sword hanging on the post.

And then Corkus.

comes up with a scheme and then he goes to Kafka and he's, he's rejected by

them. He's rejected by her. He goes back into his tent. He pulls the sword off

of the post and he flees with it behind that, behind the crate with it, with

his, his rucksack tucked in the blankets as if it's him. Right. And it's like,

it's like, even when it seems like he should be safe, it's clear he's

It's clear he's not accepted.

And so he's like, it's me and my sword.

I got nothing.

Yeah.

Even after he gets back to ask him, like, what have you been doing? And he's

just like, I've been in my sword.

Swinging this makes me feel free. And so it's always been like him and his

blade, you know, that's where he's comfortable.

Yeah.

There's so many little things like that throughout the story that Mira draws,

but doesn't.

He doesn't like, he doesn't self congratulate.

He's not like everyone. Did you notice, you know, he's like, he's very, very

subtle about it so that it's really easy to miss. But once you find it, it hits

so much harder.

I completely agree.

All right. So we've hit on some of our big emotional themes. What about some,

like, what are the heaviest ones? The ones that like you had to, you had to go

for a walk for a minute afterwards.

Cause for me,

There were two that I, like, couldn't shake for a while, other than the

ones. And that's Casca's miscarriage.

That one stuck with me hard. Oh, okay.

And then it was Griffith trying to kill himself and slipping and not being able

to execute.

And just, like, laying there, like, just broken. Broken.

Nothing. Both of those clung to me.

Oh, can you give more? I'm sorry. I know you're asking all of us. Can you give

more detail about the because it was hard for me to see the Griffith, you

attempting to take his life. But can you elaborate more on what you were feeling

in that moment for the Griffith? Yeah. Suicide attempt. Yeah.

Griffith had been tortured for a year. He's dumb. OK, we all hate Griffith. May

he may he die in pain.

But he was tortured for a year.

His dream outside of his grasp.

His men out here fighting and being ripped to shreds by wild, and he tries

reach for a sword to fight next to them. He can't.

He can't even commit assault, even though he's trying. Like, he got

Anything he wants. I know that sounds crazy. No, I get you. Anything he wants

do, help his men, hurt his men, he's got nothing. And then this little boy

vision of his comes out past him. He's like, we're not done playing. Let's go.

And he tries.

And in trying, he ends up breaking his arm even more, laying there in a puddle,

nothing. He's got nothing.

And he's brought to the point of trying to take his own life. And it's a very

slow, detailed scene. Like, it's really, really slow.

And, I mean, the way I understand the scene is that his broken arm, when he

trying to do it, when he was so precise trying to do it, flipped, and he

couldn't, and then it pierced to the side.

And, like, then he's laying there like, I can't even do this.

And it's like, it's just the most desperate.

And regardless of the fact that Griffith is dumb, it's still like haunting to

see someone in that state.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think, I mean, I feel like it's a lot the same moment for a lot of people.

Get through Casca's journey.

That's his journey.

Griffith's journey.

Myth of the Eclipse.

In front of Gut.

Griffith and Casca.

And that was just like.

I had to.

Take a little while.

Oh yeah.

Because you think about everything. Guts went through. Casca how she.

how she viewed Griffith and then how he was almost

like reveling in the fact that guts was in pain

eating it. It was just, it was just a lot.

That was, that was heavy.

So yeah, that was the moment where it was just, let me take a little break.

Yeah. Yeah. Both that one and the gut.

at the beginning gets in donovan at the beginning both of those i mean excluding

the obvious ones those two were like cool both of those were a lot yeah

the donovan one i mean i just started the reread and i needed a break yeah

that's how like yeah it's it's i think and even afterwards like because it's

kind of one big thing where i needed a break was why i think my my hatred for

gambino tripled in the reread

Just because, like, when you really start to grasp the innocence of

right, and the foolishness of Guts for just a speck of kindness.

Like, Gambino, like, drew blood and hit the bone with that sword. And the

smallest medicine they can give him, no apology, nothing.

And you see Guts' face light up when he got one bare minimum act of kindness.

So much so to the point where Guts is literally like, oh, my God, let me make

much money as I can for Gambino.

And instead of, like, thanking Guts for the money he gave him, he's like, what

about the dog? Then he hits him.

And I'm just like, what's happening? And then this all pans out to Gambino

showing up in his tent drunk at night saying that Donovan is the one.

Donovan paid me two silver coins, and I'm glad I did it. It's your fault this

died. And then there's a face Guts makes.

Where it's like all the light in his eyes disappears.

Yeah. And I needed to take a break because I'm like, this is not, like, I

handle this.

Like, I can't. This child sees you as her father. Like, you're the only

figure he's ever had in his entire life.

And you literally are just mutilating his innocence.

Yeah.

And even, like, he carries that. Even into adulthood, he's still, you know,

to the wounds chapter, he still is like.

grieving over having to kill Gambino.

And that's a part of the trauma that's tangled up with everything else, which I

think is, I think is a pretty authentic view of trauma.

You know, like, first of all, he was the only, he was the only parental figure

he had after his, after his mom, after Shisu died.

So it's like, you still cling to that regardless of the abuse.

But then also like Gambino's Gambino is.

attached to donovan you can't detach and so the trauma with donovan is going to

be is going to give you those there too and and it was still his first kill his

first like like that so it's like i think that's an honest depiction of

that it would all be so tangled like that and that he can't view abuse as

nothing but abuse and detangle it from the affection that he felt from him too

or felt for him it's just really sad that he carries that so far into

I mean, it's honest.

It's just tragic.

Like, really, how do you separate the two? How do you?

The feeling is there, and of course, it's soured by, you know, everything

happens, so it's like, tough, and like you said, innocence, you know, and

internalizing that, it's a lot to have to deal with as a kid, and then it goes

into adulthood, so.

I think even with the scene with Casca and Griffith,

Guts is like, he's losing his mind. He's literally cutting his arm off just to

try to get to Casca with how much pain he's feeling.

Because he can't save her. It's just helpless.

Powerless at that point.

And Griffith, he's enjoying it.

He's not...

Oh, they all are. All the God Hand reveling in the evil.

Yeah. Yeah.

That was tough. I guess I agree with the conclusion that

Griffith is scum.

But I think before this, I had some hope.

I want to circle back to that. But first, Amber, what's your... If we

already covered it.

I think what hit me the hardest was just the way betrayal was utilized in this

story.

Even when you go to the Donovan situation,

that was horrible.

But what destroyed me was the fact that Gambino would sacrifice

guts for that.

For nothing.

For nothing. And he was a child.

He was somebody who did nothing.

But be kind to him. Look up to him.

And I think that made Griffith. As horrible as it was. It made it even

Because I know how much betrayal he's already dealt with.

And now we see.

Gus experience that again. But also all of the band of the hawk. As I'm watching

them die.

Like just perish. And all they wanted to do was follow him.

no matter what and this was the no matter what that's not how they were

perceiving it right and we're seeing everybody and and i think what killed me

the most is that they don't even know right like they don't even know that he

sacrificed them yeah and they're still just hanging on they're still trying to

save costco they're still trying to in in this man i

hated every aspect of it but I love the way that it was shown in this story like

the impact of it and the effect it had on my life and how I view things so it

hurt but it was also it also really added to the story for me in in the

but best way so yeah the the whole eclipse from from from guts

running to Griffith even as all all the creatures are coming forward and he's

like still single focused running to him and Griffith, you know, telling him

don't come like stop, or at least wanting to tell him that all the way

everything that, that they go through them being sacrificed and going through

the attacks and trying to fight through the darkness, but the darkness overcomes

them. The whole eclipse segment, like obviously we fixate on the one scene,

the whole segment is like, it's so emotionally raw.

I mean, it's.

It's terrible to read and to watch these characters go through this

because of Griffith.

Yeah.

This isn't something I thought when I first read Berserk. Well, in the reread,

was like, is this the unfortunate consequence

of believing

I guess, blindly in someone else's dream and not having your own purpose.

Where, like Amber was saying, they didn't even know they were being

Yeah.

Because they were blindly following Griffith. It was for Griffith.

was always in the name of Griffith. And like, you know, without having any

purpose. I mean, some of them did, but they came back and it was like, it was

all for him. But like, this may be like, it being depicted as just the...

unfortunate truth like purpose and dreams which is you know dreams are

several times it's necessary yeah not blaming them for what happened but

like you know on the reread i kind of look at it from a i'm looking at it from

different angles yeah i think the question is so so okay one thing

that really struck me is that

in the scene in the am i dirty scene after griffith you know sold his body so

that he could have a shortcut so that he could get money faster not be able to

get to his dream faster and not not um right so you know

there was a lot tangled in there it was i don't want more men to fall than have

to fall for my dream but also i'm not willing to give up my dream and i want

get there as fast as possible i'm not willing to take the time this is an

way i'll make myself dirty so that Less men have to, right?

That's essentially what's happening again in the eclipse is look at all

bodies.

That's you.

This is what it costs to get to that castle. Look at the chasm.

It's going to take a whole lot more bodies.

Now look at you.

Are you still going to be able to fight that fight?

Can you do it?

So the question is, can you do it? But the question is also, do you have the

time to get there?

And what they're offering him.

is essentially a shortcut. Get to the castle faster.

And so the question, I think, also has to be, like, obviously having a dream is

good in life, but being willing to sacrifice everything for that dream, is

actually worth it?

And of course, we're seeing it from the perspective of those that are having to

deal with the consequences of being ruined for someone else's dream.

It's tough because I'm sure if you went down the list of the Band of the Hawk

asking them if they would die for Griffith, they would.

Right. Okay. But there's a difference.

Okay. But there's a difference.

I agree.

They would die for him because they love him. But being sacrificed by him in

this brutal, horrific way, they would all walk.

They wouldn't say yes to that.

No.

I think Griffith is looking at it from the perspective of it would die for me

anyway.

I don't think so.

Well, I think he does, but he wants to see it that way. He's trying to justify

it. I think he knows well exactly what he's doing and exactly the cost and

exactly that they wouldn't take it. He just doesn't care.

His dream is always number one.

Yeah.

He's just a sneaky little man.

He's a tough one. I know that's what makes him such a great antagonist. I

horrible, but you know, great.

Well -written.

You guys, you guys don't think there's any good in there.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So let me, let me read this. I love the juxtaposition of

Griffith's need for control and the cost of everything gets relinquishing

control for the sake of revenge.

There's a lot of contrast, I think between these two, and that is

very good one.

this is what I wanted to circle back to the brago because yes I think that there

is good in there and when I say you know he's scum or whatever it's because of

the end result it's who you've chosen to be in the end but then there's this

really interesting question of like what is the point of no return for Griffith

you know like I think personally that like okay was it at was it when

um when guts left or what was it after the torture or was it after the the

attempted suicide like what point was he like oh i'm done because he said he

said guts made him consider giving up his dream so there was a point where

the only person chosen a different kind of life than just than just non -stop

relentless ambition so do you have like a daydream or something about him and

casca Yeah, he did. It was after the fall. Yeah. After he was dropped in the

carriage. But how did that end? The behelet came up from the soup and he

the behelet. Like there is another option in life, but he's not going to

it. But I think that the point of no return was when the God hand were

manipulating him and were giving him that vision and telling him like, what's

the point of repentance?

You've gone this far.

Why even turn back now?

Like, I think we were up to the line with him of trying to decide on what to

I guess what's the line? What was too far where he decided that's it?

Right. Like, where is it? That's the question.

It feels like after seeing Guts and Casca.

That was definitely a big moving point.

Where it's just, it's like, that's not what I wanted.

Like, but it's almost like seeing two people that you care about,

but they're happy without you.

He was being replaced as their number one.

We're at their number one.

Now it's each other.

Can't be so.

I'm number one. You guys both belong to me. I agree with this. It's when he

said, I sacrifice.

Because when Guts was running, he said, don't touch me. Don't put your hand on

your shoulder. If you do, I'll never, I'll never.

So, and before that, he was telling him, like, stay back. Don't come.

Don't. And then at the scene with the God hand manipulating him, he was

I'll never, I'll never again.

But this time he had changed his mind. This time it was the other direction.

Like, I think those I'll never, I'll nevers were meant to be parallels to one

another. And I think that he didn't want guts. Like, don't come over here. I

don't want to make this decision. I want you to leave and keep this decision

from me.

I don't know.

I feel like he was back and forth.

He was back and forth up to the moment.

That's the thing.

That's why I said some good or, I guess, different Griffith in there.

It wasn't like an instant decision.

It was some pondering and some things that had to go really far for him to

decide and say, all right, it's time.

You know, Amber, I know you like.

Yeah.

She's like, yeah, all right, Griffith. Yeah.

I think they'll make some very valid

points, though. I just for me, I just think it wasn't if it was when when he

going. Inevitable.

Yes. Yes.

Well, faith's a big theme in the story. True. Very true. So was he always fated

to do it, Amber Lee?

I think when I look at the people, and again, there's so much I haven't read

yet, so I don't know. But when I look at the people who have so far been using

this, they held it situation.

I feel like it's something in them.

I just can't imagine if you were to give that to gut, it would even be in his

mind.

Now, some people, it may be a little more, but I think they literally go for

people who have that in them. I can look at people.

I'm exaggerating in real life and be like, oh, you're kind of a cheater.

a liar. You're a saint. Like I can look at you and kind of be like, you know,

I've seen this film before. You know what I mean?

And that's kind of how I felt about him and the people that they choose.

Again, that's a very broad way of saying things. No, I think you're right.

I think they choose people that are inclined for that intense ambition.

And then they kind of push them and push them and push them and try to get them

to that point of no return.

I think to back that point up in Black Swordsman as well, you see the Count's

backstory with his wife. Yeah. And I'm realizing somebody had brought this up

me where his wife was in that, you know, grotesque orgy with that, you know,

goat head demon or whatever.

And that was Slann. That was like Slann, one of the gods. So it's one of the god

hands, the girl with the snake hair and everything.

She.

is notorious for that like any any example of that orgy type thing they

show up later in berserk i don't know if you guys would get the conviction or

not um but that's slant's influence so um he made a point where it's like

couldn't you just blame slant for them being enticed by that whole demonic orgy

thing and he's like yeah but they still had a right They still had a choice and

a decision to make, and it's like they wanted to go and feel that pleasure. So

they go into it, and the God Hand used that to corner people to making a

decision. So when he was going to kill his wife but then chose not to, the God

Hand show up, and they're just like, hey, you're paying. You're suffering.

want to get rid of it all.

we'll give you something to help you get rid of it. But just go ahead and do

this. And then outside of that, instantly he takes it. And it just seems

common theme with them.

So I think to back up Amber's point, going to Griffith, ambition was always

something that he had from very, very early on.

And it's just something that could be taken advantage of. If you look at Zod,

Zod obviously went through something similar as well.

Oh, is that spoilers?

Ooh, wait.

Brogdon, is that spoilers?

I was going to say ambition though ambition

I think they're going after ambitious people on purpose because

sometimes that's the cost where with ambitious people

you've been climbing for so long that if you're right on the cusp

and then you fall

because of how much I sacrificed to get here, you might feel like I deserve this

no matter what. Oh, that's true.

That's true. There's almost like a setup where it's like these people that are

super ambitious, like you climb. Like Griffith, he went through a lot. Even

he was willing to sacrifice himself and give his body to the king, I was like,

oh, you're willing to do anything.

Yeah.

And then to get right to the cusp and then to lose it all, be tortured for a

year, see two people that's close to you, you kind of lose them as well, or

feel like you're losing them.

Because you could argue that the gap that Guts and Casca, that they were

with Griffith being more recognized by the nobles, did it flip.

Where now he got tortured for a year, and now he's like, dang, what's this?

gap always here? Were they always like this? Were they always this close?

And at that point, I feel like I have nothing.

I don't have nothing else to lose.

I'm going to do it. I think the scene with the king was very much a fracturing

of his humanity that he was totally responsible for, like in a very human

And then what the god hand requires is a fracturing of humanity more in a

spiritual way.

But, I mean, we see with the count that it can be denied. It's not required.

They are bound to the laws of causality, whatever that means, just as much as

anyone else is.

But Griffith is the type that's more likely to be manipulated, and so they

the Bethelit near him.

Yeah, he's more likely to take it.

Especially based on what he went through.

Oh, yeah.

There's a reason they put it there when he tried to kill himself.

There's a reason they put it right back up.

It's like, hey, you can get out of this.

You're at your worst.

Take this.

I mean, it's crazy, like, you guys talking about, like, it could be just

because if Guts doesn't hear that conversation with him in Charlotte, he

probably doesn't leave.

And Griffith probably doesn't spiral.

I think eventually Guts gets to a point where Griffith has achieved the things

that he wanted to achieve, and he's like, Maybe it's time for me to move on.

But it wouldn't have happened this soon if he didn't hear that conversation.

Like Jay said, that brought him some sentience.

It's like, okay, I need to start thinking for myself a bit more now.

Yeah, I think you're right.

Realizing that he has to become his own person. He can't rely on Griffith.

Yeah. Would you say that Griffith, Amber Elise, is one of your top five

antagonists? He's number one.

Whoa!

Griffith is Amber Elise's number one. You heard it here first.

Well said.

What about y 'all? Yeah, because y 'all have so many. Y 'all, I'm sure, read a

lot more manga and watch more anime than us, so where does he rank for you all?

He's number one.

Oh, really?

Out of everything?

Yeah. I made a top ten characters list, and Guts and Griffith are one and two.

Is it spoiler free?

It is full of freaks. Oh, I'm going to watch it. I'm going to have to watch it.

Guts is my number one favorite character of all time.

Okay.

Oh, interesting.

Okay. Their story, and it's all because of Golden Age. Afterwards, there's some

really good stuff, but because of Golden Age alone, I'm like, these two, I don't

think they'll ever be topped.

Especially Griffith.

All the conversation you guys are having about how just...

explaining and going into his mind and how miora takes you on a journey where

it's like you think you know him but you really don't know him yeah you don't

really know him all the way throughout even now in the black swordsman you're

seeing him there you still don't really know what's going on in there like what

are you thinking man like what's going on in your head but with every action

you're trying to think like oh no he's this then he'll do something else i'm

like wait what yes what like yeah so just

I love an antagonist that can keep you on your feet like that, but you just

know, all right, his disposition is he's willing to trample on others for his

own ambition.

That's an antagonist, period. So for me, yeah, number one.

Okay.

I feel like Miura captures humanity through Griffith.

Where I think we can all attest to the fact that sometimes you have feelings

that you didn't even know you had.

where it's like sometimes you don't even know how you're feeling. Somebody asks

you how you feel. I don't know.

I can't really tell you. I'm figuring it out, right? And I think he uses

Griffith to kind of wrestle with those where, like we talked about, like with

guts leaving, where it's like, did he feel like he was his friend? Did he

realize it when he was leaving?

Is it something he's trying to hold on to once it was at the end?

And so I think that's why the audience, and I agree with Jay, he's number one.

it's hard to top just because this raw humanity like envy, jealousy

entitlement like you can point at so many different things and

Griffith he has shown it in some way so I think he's definitely number one yeah

same and for the same reasons you said Brago it's not just that he's horrible

you know and like easy to hate

But it's so complicated.

It's that there's so much going on there. Like, when he's sitting in his

dungeon thinking about his feelings for Gus, and it's the love, it's the hate,

it's the anger, it's the, like, he's just listing off emotion after emotion.

then you watch, without words, him go through every single one of those.

And it's like, every single panel of Griffith, I'm sitting there just...

staring at, trying to analyze, trying to work out what's going on in his mind.

I just don't know that many antagonists that are as complicated and mysterious

and awful but interesting as Griffith.

Bronco, the way you said that, I still will never like Griffith. There's

anybody can say, but you kind of humanized him, and I don't like that.

Well done.

I mean, it's just that I feel like sometimes the hardest thing is looking

mirror. Yeah.

I think for Griffith, like, I don't know.

I feel like we all have, like, a line, right?

But we also have, like, things that we would sacrifice anything for.

People would sacrifice anything for, for the most part. And so it's just like,

for Griffith, that was his ambition.

And he was willing to sacrifice anything for it. Not that I necessarily relate.

On that level.

But I guess I understand like the humanity of it and just indecision,

feelings, jealousy, envy, working through that.

And like I said, I think Murphy said he's easy to hate, but I think he's also

easy to love.

Like with just how grandiose he was.

he is of a character and how he seemingly had everything in front of him

everybody's like all right he's on another level it's just we just follow

you know yeah i think watching watching him be such a master strategist like

when they're going through the river and guess it's like we're coming from

behind at night and the river is going to cover our sound like he's processing

all of the thought that's gone into it and then you know, the kindness that he

does show, or when they're facing off against Zod, and he goes in and, like,

gets Guts, and then he's like, can you fight? And Guts is like, well, I don't

have a choice! And he goes, left.

And then he knows what that means, and they break apart, and they fight Zod

together. There are so many scenes that make you want to love Griffith. It's

just hard with the full context, but make you want to, you know, the scene

individually, because he is that. He is the charming one. Like, he has the

charisma.

But I like when he gets in his bag, too.

Like, versus, was it Fosa?

The little scheming, the short scheming, scheming guy.

Oh, the guy in the, God, one of the goals in the game. Yeah, that he

his daughter.

Oh, right. Oh, he cooked him. He cooked him up. Right, and he was like, he

doesn't know it's me. Oh, the priest guy.

Right, then he walks out and he's at the end of the hallway just staring at him.

Oh, Farley. Then he just walks away.

He's like, wait, what was that?

And the act of idea when he finally talked to him, he's like, did you know?

like, no.

I didn't know.

No, to that point, the whole scene of him when it was burning, the queen's

building was just burning. He was just standing outside.

Yeah.

That wasn't poison.

I like when he gets in his bag.

I'm just saying he's different so for me I'm glad you said that because I think

one of the biggest things when I was reading Berserk earlier one of the

loved about him is like when people like say they want to do something right he

has such a big dream to have a kingdom and he has a plan he's executing that

plan but one of the moments I love the most is when I think it's Guts visits

Griffith as he's in his room and you're seeing all of the studying That he's

doing. Like, I need to know economics. I need to know language. I need to know

this. I need to know that. You see the time he puts in when nobody's watching.

Where he's learning everything.

He's learning about the kingdom. He's learning about geography.

He's learning about families. He's learning about everything.

Because he's not just saying it. And I think that's what Judo was talking about

when he first started talking about guts.

There's a lot of people that just say things that are a dreamer. But he's not

dreamer. He's doing everything that he said he's going to do and he's doing

everything. So it's like when you look at somebody like that, you can't help

respect them. The same way you, for some reason, like to respect Corcus. You

should have the same respect for Griffith because Griffith does

he says he wants to do. I know it's crazy spin, but it's the truth, right?

Everything that he wanted to do. You may have not liked how he did it, but

Griffith was honest to the end.

I think it's hard. Yeah, I've been honest with myself.

Yeah. It's hard because you know where it goes.

Exactly. I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. Exactly.

Yeah, it was because in the Black Swordsman, we see him in the God Hand.

So I know he sacrifices. I know he's probably going to sacrifice some other

people, too. And so I'm just like, all right, you know, arm's length. But then

can't help but draw closer to him as I'm reading it because he's so fascinating.

But I understand where it's going.

So I'm like, OK.

I'm fascinated by this character. I'm intrigued by him. But the thing is, I

didn't know the extent of where it was going, right? Like, I didn't know about

Kafka.

And so once you get there, then I'm like, okay, this is so much more than

I ever expected.

So I will appreciate how brilliantly the character is written.

But, you know.

I was just going to say he's brilliant.

And you feel that.

you're using other characters to show that and you see everything he says he

wants to do he does it um and even again putting himself in harm's way getting

dirty because of um for his people and at the end of the day it's like if we're

feeling that as readers imagine the people that's following him right like

whatever for griffith you know yeah so yeah that's antagonist Griffith

made the hero's journey, treated like a protagonist, but for evil.

Thoughts on that?

I wouldn't say it was for evil.

He was on the hero's journey, but it's just a testament to how quickly things

can change.

Well, I mean, the end result was for evil.

I guess.

I don't remember what it is now, but he was given many titles throughout the

ceremony. And one of them was like the wings of evil or something like that.

like, they made clear that they're serving evil basically.

And that Griffith was like a bastion of evil, our chosen one of evil. So, I mean

like his, in his end result was entering into, you know, those that are trying

to bring evil into the world, the age of darkness.

Hmm.

Then fair.

I can kind of see that. I mean, I guess it's like.

Our child of darkness. That was one of them.

I guess if you're looking at it, just if you take a step back from the story and

you look at it in its totality, you could say that.

That Griffith's journey was for evil.

Like it's a hero's journey.

But evil.

But on the track of evil.

Yes, I think it's definitely a hero's journey.

Like I said, they kind of took advantage of his ambition.

I wouldn't say the journey is for evil, but it's just where it ended up.

That could be part of the reason why we like him as much because he was the

hero. And I think even at the beginning, how they framed him, how he was viewed

by everybody in the kingdom.

And I think they brought in an antagonist like Julius that was just a

They're dispatching all these enemies, and he's the person that we're

And, of course, Guts is the main character, and that's who he's

look at him in a positive light. But, yeah, I think just how they framed it

made us like him.

Survivor's guilt for everyone that died for his dream was too much. So many

already died. The corpse bridge at the castle too large.

Deaths in vain.

Survivor's guilt is an interesting interpretation of that. I'm not sure I

attribute survivor's guilt to him. More so sunk cost fallacy where it's like I'm

looking at how far I've come and it's like there's no point in repenting at

point. There's no point in apologizing.

I just need to finish the job.

from here.

Yeah, I don't think Survivor's Guilt.

Like you said, I think about like if Griffith at that point after they saved

after the torture, what does the mountain look like for him to get back

he was?

If you quit now, the hawk will take you back. I think that's true.

Yeah. Okay, rephrase that, Murphy. I'm sorry. What do you mean?

Okay, so my interpretation is that the God Hand cannot force anything.

They can manipulate the situation, but they are bound to the same stuff that we

are in their quest to bring evil to the Earth and to change the flow of the

tide, as they put it.

My understanding is that all they can do

is present the truth.

They'll take you back.

If you quit now, if you don't sacrifice them, if you don't make this sacrifice

and you just go to them, they will accept you.

But if you don't, then all these bodies are in vain and you're not getting to

that castle.

And if you do, you know, like, here's all you've been sacrificing.

Here's the dream.

Here's the thing that you actually want. So they can manipulate.

They can coerce.

They can they can try like they did with the count where they were like, you're

going to get dragged into hell if you don't sacrifice her. You know, like it's

the truth.

Yeah. But like he decided that her life was more valuable.

And he let her live.

And they had to do the same for Griffith. They had to tell him the

I think, but they were allowed to be manipulative and coerce him.

But at the end of the day, they can't force him into it.

Okay.

I thought, okay. I thought you were saying something else, but okay. I got

got it.

I think that it's true that the band would have taken him back if he didn't

the sacrifice and he just went with them. I think it's true that they would

allowed and they would have continued to care for him.

But that care looks a lot different now. Yeah.

Because I might argue that after that

moment when Guts was about to leave and they had that duel and Guts won,

he could never be his subordinate again.

No. Oh, no.

Because he beat him in front of everybody.

Yeah. His image was destroyed there.

Griffith was perfect. They were like, oh, Guts, he's still stronger than Guts.

Like, Guts has gotten a lot stronger, but Griffith is still – and he beat him.

And I think even with what Guts put on the line to save them and save Griffith,

you could say that if it came to a vote, they might be like,

I think we need – we want Guts to lead us.

Oh, yeah.

Well, at this point, Griffith can't lead them anyway.

Yeah. He has no voice. And his body can't lead either.

And so, yes, the way that they would accept him back is they would become his

caretakers.

And he would not.

That's not the life he could accept. Nope.

Nope. I don't think he could ever accept that. So I think, inevitably, it's

fate. Like, he couldn't go back to that.

It's not, though.

Like... Him not, I mean, sorry, I don't mean to sound dismissive. I just

disagree because I think that him not being able to accept them being his

caretakers isn't fate.

That's just him.

That's just his pride.

But that doesn't mean it's fated just because that's who he's carved himself

to be.

Well, no, I agree with that. That is who he is. But the spiral and the events

that transpired based on who he is, these decisions.

It's almost like you know what he's going to do.

It's inevitable.

He's just so low.

Like Jay was saying, all the research, all the time spent, all the dedication.

I can't go back.

Sorry.

Put way too much in.

Too much invested at this point.

Bag of Chips says that he thinks it's less about ambition and more about

desperate people.

giving desperate people the opportunity to feed their darkest impulses. I think

it's both. I think ambition is what drives you to the behelit in the first

place, and then they get you to your deepest point of desperation so that

use it.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I would say you can't even get to that desperation without ambition.

But the thing is, they're not going to just offer it to desperate people. A lot

of desperate people, right?

But you want the people that are destined to be great that somewhat lose

that are going to be the best candidate so i think desperation is definitely a

part of it but it's like you want those special people that get to that point i

think ambition is necessary so it is it is so interesting how it's cyclical in

that way like we choose who we who we're going to be right like griffith chose

to be the type of person that values his dream over his people's lives and he

chose to be the type of person that would sell himself to get there faster

to do it you know in this way that costs less he chose to make the decisions

that he made and his choices of who he chooses to be is what draws the god hand

to him and puts this in his hands so that he will now be tempted to go even

farther so like i do think that there the initial point is our free will at

least that's the that's how i'm taking the theories at this point yet

causality leads to this, leads to that, leads to that.

Yeah. That's what you said. You choose who you're, who we want to be.

I think somewhat.

Circumstances definitely do.

Yeah. I think, I think there are certain points where you choose things and then

sometimes you just realize you are what you are.

But some people get to the point where they realize I'm just lazy.

You can't break that?

If you realize you're lazy, you're just damn to it?

No, but you have that choice.

That's why I don't like Griffin.

You have the choice where it's like, I can try to be, right?

I can try to procrastinate less.

I can try to be more intentional. But some people are just like, I just want

just work here.

Yeah, you make that choice, don't you?

Just stay that way.

Right? But then some people realize I'm not a good leader.

And I feel like for leaders, you can learn and try to become a better leader,

but I feel like sometimes leaders are just chosen.

Naturally, that's just who you are. And I feel like some people, even for Guts,

in a weird way, I don't feel like Guts wants to lead necessarily.

It's like Guts just wants to do his own thing. But when he came back to the band

and he saved them, they were almost looking at him like a savior, like, yo,

need you.

And he, based on the year and his time away and his new...

found purpose he's like all right i'm gonna take this on and take on this role

but i don't know if that's like him necessarily choosing that you know but

circumstances can kind of propel you into certain places where you didn't

that you you could or you want to be so i thought that was interesting

If he doesn't continue, then the kid that died, who's representative of all

people that died in the pursuit of his dream, then all their sacrifices meant

nothing. They would have died in vain.

So is the argument here that it's good that he sacrificed everyone?

Because I would argue that when you come to find yourself standing on a pile of

bodies and you're like, oh, maybe the choices I've made are not great.

I would say that the count's choice of saying this stops here, even though the

cost is horrible for me stopping it here, as opposed to continuing to

more and harm more people.

I think for me, it also depends on what what is the end goal here, because so

far what we've gotten, it's just been a lot of destruction and pain.

So if I had.

more of an understanding because he says he wants the kingdom he wants the

kingdom then he then he does this thing where it's just more evil than i guess

i'm not understanding what is the end goal for this i don't know how i would

feel even if i knew it was something positive but so far it just seems like

something negative so i wouldn't say i agree with that but i like the question

or the this is a follow -up from the way i interpreted it i'm not i'm just

saying that It's one excuse that he would make for his actions. I gotcha.

That is something that he was using to excuse.

Absolutely, yes. I do agree with you on that.

How many bodies is too many bodies?

One.

Never too many bodies, if you're willing to sacrifice bodies, right? One.

Half?

I feel like if you're willing to kill somebody, who are you not willing to

I feel like, like you said, the sacrifices that he made and his goals

ambitions, maybe some entitlement.

Like, this is my dream. This is my goal. Like, you guys, this is supposed to

happen for me.

And so many people already died. It's like, yeah, let's do a few more.

oh yeah eventually it does it just becomes a pile of bodies which i think

they pulled the individual i think that was the ploy of the yeah because it's

clear that the boy's death affected griffith more it was after they saw the

boy's death that griffith then sold himself to stop more death yeah he

that before the boy died and then when i'm telling you i I hyper -analyzed all

the Griffith scenes. It was ridiculous.

But in that scene, when he was in the river, scratching himself, you know,

Koska, he was digging at himself, and then they were talking, and he was

about his dream, he was talking about his ambition, he stopped, and then Koska

asked, is this because of the boy? And he started digging at himself again and

said no.

Like, I think that boy affected him, and I think there's a reason that they...

pulled him from the pile of bodies to use him as the face.

I don't remember the point that I was getting at with that, though.

Yeah, I'm thinking about that scene.

So,

what is

you guys' overall thoughts? And I guess I'd like to ask you, murphy and amber

how do you feel about berserk right now after everything

that you've read after everything that you've experienced if you were to

that to somebody that's curious about berserk would you tell them to read it

do you feel about it oh did you want to go murphy or

it's interesting that's a really good question because

This story has been a very, I mean, as most reading journeys are, but this has

been a really personal thing for me. Like, I would say that this experience

transformative. I know I've ranted a lot, but I took a lot of wonderful

out of this story.

The whole struggler concept of this, at first I hated it because I didn't

understand why the promotion of struggling, it's not a word that I

have a positive connotation attached to.

But the way it made me embrace what struggling is, because we all have to go

through it for multiple reasons, really transformed the way I see life. So

that's a long way of saying that is a reason why I would recommend it. But

naturally, just my direct frame of mind is like a lot of people I would not

recommend this to, but there are a certain group of people I would

this story to who I think would.

see the benefit maybe not the same thing that i saw but i think they would

gravitate towards a lot of aspects that berserk has i

don't think i could just recommend it to anyone i i think that it's a decision

that people just have to make for themselves because the content is so

because i don't think it's always handled great sometimes it is sometimes

handled

brilliantly. Sometimes not.

And so to me, it's one of those things where I'm like, I think that this is,

personally glad I read it.

This is a story that forced me to engage with it, forced me to think.

And I loved it. I loved the conversations that came from it, but

don't like about it too.

And like, I don't know how to just give someone a recommendation for a story

like this. You know what I mean?

I think the way I've always gone about it is I don't recommend it to people,

if they say, I want to read Berserk, I'm like, go ahead.

You got to be curious about it first.

Yeah, I'm not going to go out of my way because for me, if I'm going to be

honest, I didn't know if we would read Berserk or not, so I never really

it up to you.

But when I found out you were reading it, I was like, oh, I'm so curious to

what you think.

How are you going to absorb this type of manga?

It's a lot.

It's not a case of, like... It's not a case of you couldn't handle it, because

knew you could.

But it's a case of this manga can put some people off in a way where they just

will never read it. And I've seen so many people do that, where they'll read

something gory or, you know, morbid. You love, um... God, what's his name? Junji

Ito. Like, that guy is insane.

Like, he's mad. So I'm like, it's not the gore.

It's just that Miura does things that are so... Very few mangas get as

and as dark as Miura.

Like, very few. And in a way that's actually written. Now, there are some

things, like, we haven't talked about Wild yet, but we all, I think most of us

agree, like, you could have just taken Wild out of the story. We would have

alright. But, like, it gets

so aggressive. Like, and you guys...

The next arc, Lost Children is really good. I would recommend reading Lost

Children if you don't want to go any further.

Lost Children is amazing.

Amber at least is like, I don't know if I'm going to do all that.

Conviction? I know both of you would start reading Conviction.

I just know. Oh, really?

Yeah, I know.

There's something that Miura does that is very controversial and a lot of

dropped them on there.

It's like, you read Conviction, right, Braga?

The horse?

I really like that art.

The art is great. I love it. You like that horse?

There's a horse.

Because I read the horse today.

There's no way.

I read it today.

Oh, you're traumatized.

Listen,

I read it today.

I was on the phone with a friend while I was reading it and I was like, you know

what? I'm good.

I'm done. I'm just going to walk away. I didn't drop the story. I didn't drop

the story. I don't need to finish this. I don't need to finish this volume right

now. I'm just going to go for a walk. Maybe yell a little bit.

Yeah.

It's things like that with the horse. I was like, nah.

That's just a lie.

Yeah.

I think conviction is great.

Okay.

Oh, let me answer that. It's about recommendations.

I think it depends on the person more than anything. I don't think it's just,

like, a passing recommendation. Like, hey, guys, let's go read Berserk.

I think, honestly, like, somebody reading Berserk might look at you and be

is this what you're into?

So I think it's one you've got to show interest in and kind of stumble onto

yourself and kind of – because I – Unless it's somebody that, you know,

kind of delves into certain things that Berserk covers. But I think also you can

give maybe some warning.

Like, hey, it's kind of heavy. It goes there.

Like, just be prepared. But just a casual recommendation, like if somebody

to get into manga, no.

No shot.

No chance.

Yeah, for sure.

Amber, Elise, are you going to continue with Bruiser?

I haven't completely decided.

I'm not not open to it. I'm just I haven't made a definite

decision.

I'm going to continue.

But I do think if I were to stop, this was an awesome -ish place to stop as far

as the impact that the art had on me.

It does have an impact.

Okay, well, then let's talk about the ending because I... Okay, did y 'all

how Golden Age ended?

I loved it.

Yeah?

I loved it.

I think Golden Age, for the most part, I bet that's a berserk for a lot of

people.

Now, there is another one, but I won't mention it.

Did you get the falconia?

I did.

Falconia's good. Yeah, but anyway, yeah.

I'm guessing you didn't. Did you not like the ending?

Girl, I sat in my car and cried for an hour.

Okay.

And then I cried again for the next week.

Yeah. It's the most depressing ending to anything I've ever read.

I was so, like, I was so sad at the ending. And that's why I had to move on

Lost Children. Because I was like, if I don't move forward, I mean, I gave

myself a break.

But I was like, if I don't move forward, I will not return to this. And I think,

see, that's where – Too much.

Well, that's what – I had no intention of, like, continuing doing – I mean, I

had intention, but I wasn't going to do Berserk videos back -to -back. That was

not in my plan at all.

And then I was like, if I stop now, I'm not going to pick it back up again. And

I think I should have done that, but I didn't. So now I don't know if I'm going

to – I get exactly what you're saying. I get it.

Yeah. I get it.

It's not – it doesn't get happy.

It's not suddenly not depressing.

No.

It does not get happy. So you actually finished Lost Children already.

Yeah.

I loved it.

Good, right?

Rosina. Wow.

Anyway, yes.

I probably won't. I'll do a Lost Children video and then I'm probably

Berserk videos, but I'll keep reading.

The content is so heavy.

And the way I do it is I read the story and then I have some distance and then I

read it again and write up all my notes.

And then I make a video. I have to sit through filming talking about all this

and then go through the editing process. It's like it's a lot.

It's a lot of sitting with a story this heavy.

So I don't know. I just I don't really want to keep making videos on it. It's

just it puts me through a lot.

I think I like that idea of reading it but maybe not doing content on it

I read it then just go talk about it.

And it's always just very – I'm very emotional. I'm very like – I don't know.

don't know. I'll think about it, but that may be the path I take as well

I do want to see what happens, but I don't know.

I think what I wish I did was – read it and then like maybe do like

immediately just share my thoughts on camera. That's what Amber Elise did. She

vlogged it. She would sit down in front of the camera the moment she finished

reading. As soon as you're done.

Because it's just like that emotion and how it makes you feel in that moment.

You know, I wish I'd captured that because I was after Golden Age, I was

this is the outcome for all this.

I know. It's depressing.

It's real big sad.

And it stays with you for a little while.

I went through all this and it's like, this is where we are.

That's something I wish I did.

If you guys continue, it'd be dope to have these conversations for even lost

children, conviction.

I would love to talk to y 'all about it. Y 'all's insight is really, really...

Great. I'm still mad at Jay for like, he gave such a smooth discussion when he

was talking and then he threw in that corcus moment and comparing corcus. And

was like, how did he do that?

That's what I do.

That's what I do.

Bronco had me thinking about Griffith. I'm like, I just, I don't.

It's helpful.

There's nobody worse.

There's nobody worse at that than Brago, by the way. So don't think I'm the main

culprit. Brago has been chill in this stream. I'm surprised.

Oh, man.

I feel like the content is so heavy. We don't got to go there.

We got to go there.

Berserk does it for us. And if you continue, yeah, it gets to certain

I think it's a beautiful story.

Like I said, I view it as a love story.

At least the Golden Age, Griffith, Casca, Guts.

What I was going to ask you guys, and this might be a difficult

question, but which character you relate to the most,

if any, in Berserk?

Relate to is such an awesome question.

I don't know if anybody's ever asked me that about a story that I relate to.

Man, it's easy to say who your favorite is. I know. I was ready to say, oh, I

know.

Don't help me if you say corkis.

Well. Don't.

That I relate to?

bravo do you have an answer while we're thinking um i feel like it's like

a combination yeah right um

because it's gonna sound crazy but uh -oh

i can relate to griffith

Same. I was going to say that. Okay, Murphy, the stream is done.

It was really nice seeing you. Yeah, that's a wrap.

Make sure to subscribe to Amber Lee's channel.

I don't know about them.

If anyone sees a ballot lying around, please don't put it in the hands of

in this chat.

It all makes sense now.

Go ahead, Braga.

It's the

The ambition and the difficulty of choices sometimes.

Like you said, I think there are crossroads in our lives in different

And I think there are a lot of times where you can choose the high road.

You can choose the path of least resistance. But it may leave some bodies

your wake. There are times where you can ascend.

So it could be a promotion or something that would benefit you, but other people

be hurt in the in the process.

And then you have a decision to make where it's like, do I care about how

feel or do I just make that decision based on the work that I know I put in?

feel like I deserve this.

I've earned this regardless of what's in my wake.

So I relate to that part of Griffith.

But then with gut, I kind of relate to just like.

The impact of trauma.

Into adulthood.

And just how that can impact.

Your life and your decisions.

And how people can. Affect that.

And how you can grow through it. So.

I think off rip. Those were.

Two characters that I related to.

That's good.

Yeah.

I think with Griffith.

That trying to be everything for everyone at once where

I feel like, I think for me, when it comes to like leadership and being

a man, that responsibility that you take where, for example, you know, we're

content creators and you have a fan base, you have your chat, you have

you have subscribers and they go to you for.

information they go for you to entertainment they go for you so for all

different types of things so there's a lot of hats that you wear especially if

you do a lot of streaming as well so i've always had this thing where i

feel like there's always more i need to be doing so then you try to study things

to be better at it is what you do and then with the adulation comes more

responsibility and then with that responsibility

becomes more ambition is like well if i can do this then i can actually do that

but if i can do this then i can do that and then the whole planning aspect of

everything like okay everything has to go to plan okay this didn't work i gotta

pivot i gotta pivot here you gotta pivot there and it's dangerous because you

can get to a point where you step you step outside of reality and you're

in your dreams right you're living you're living in what it is you could be

rather than staying in the present. And I think Griffith got so lost in his

future that he wasn't able to see guts in the present.

So I think just as someone that has ambition and someone that has things

wants to achieve in the future and is actively working every day to try and

ensure that I get to that destination that I'm getting to, it was so, it was

easy to see what Griffith was doing.

One of the things that I also kind of liked is that

The way he presented himself, he never really let anyone in. The only one he

really let in was Guts.

Outside of that, he was happy with how people viewed him. If you want to view

this way as this magical human being, then let's do it. Just go ahead and do

It'll serve me anyway. It'll serve my purpose.

But when you run into Guts, it's just like, this guy is just... One of the

things Griffith said to Guts early on is like, you're interesting.

I've never felt... felt this way about someone before at the very beginning he

was like oh you're interesting you're so angry but you're wounded but you're

still fighting me and you still want to kill me even though you lost i beat you

in an instant and you're still trying to fight me like i want you even more now

and when he said that it's like running into someone that he can't figure out

immediately fascinated him so much so this like well this is the one person

i know i want to be by my side because i can predict everybody else but god I

want that. Because this guy's crazy. And I need that crazy.

So, like, I just relate it to his humanity so much.

And then, obviously, with Charlotte and everything, like, I don't relate to that

no more.

I don't relate to that at all. That's just like, alright, you know, you gotta

love it. What a great distinction.

Yeah, I just had to emphasize that. You know, we're on the internet and people

do all kinds of things.

And then another one, Judo.

Love Judo. I love...

love love love judo because he's that guy that's watching everybody and

everything all the time no matter what and i love his first conversation with

guts where he looked at him and he just knew he said you're gonna find a place

where you belong like he knew who got he knew he could read him from a minute

but he still went out of his way to like okay let's just talk let me just tell

you what how everything goes around and then he's always that

Wise, word of wisdom, that calming presence.

He's always approachable, like super, super approachable. And I can relate to

that because it's like he's just a warm, comforting presence.

Like you can feel his warmth from the pages as you're reading him. The cheeky

smile, the daggers that he's throwing, the small stature where it's like, okay,

he's not that threatening, but he actually is a menace on the battlefield.

nah, I love him so much. And that's another one I really like. to. Just that

approachableness. That's something I try to add.

I like that.

Amberlee?

Okay. Because the way that they combined characters and listening to their

points is going to sound like a very big contradiction.

But I would say Griffith in my 20s okay

in relation to having

The ambition to just go and you're not going to stop no matter what.

And you don't realize what it's doing to you and those around you because you

want, you're like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And you can, the

difference is that I didn't want to become like Griffith. I saw a lot of

who did do that, not that extent, but you can get so caught up.

And trying to get X, Y, and Z. And accomplish X, Y, and Z. And you get

And then it's like more, more, more.

Until you don't even know who you are. So I think I got to that point at one

point. But then I realized I want to be nothing like that. And now I think I

would like to say I relate a little bit more to Guts. I feel like the ambition

aspect. And Guts has that. But it doesn't consume him. And I would like to

relate the most to judo. I don't think I'm there yet.

But I would like to relate to him out of all the characters.

With Judo, I would say, I think there's a lot of great aspects to his character

and how he is.

But I think sometimes being a Judo, people see that and take advantage of

Where they know you're willing to make that sacrifice.

And they're like, you can make the sacrifice, it's fine.

You do that all the time.

you know and so um the great aspects of being that person but then sometimes

like too much of it people take advantage that's fair yeah yeah he is

discerning though like we didn't talk about the scene where griffith is in

prison and gut goes in to hold him and griffith reaches up to guts his neck and

then gets him a hug you know what i'm talking about i remember that scene okay

so like

Okay, Amberlee, did you think that Griffith was trying to choke Guts in

scene?

No, but that's one of the scenes I was telling you my brother knows about. And

he was asking me, did I think you, and I was like, I didn't get that from that.

And I went back and looked. I still don't see that. Really? But he also saw

anime scene. I don't know if it's different in the anime.

So he reaches up and his hand is already on Guts' shoulder. And then he shifts

it to the neck.

And then Guts grabs his elbow and pulls him around in a hug.

So it kind of looks like.

that love and hate that's tangled together, that hate is what was taking

that moment. Like, you did this to me. You're the reason I'm here right now.

Yes.

So the thing is, with, I'm sorry, go ahead, Braga.

I was just going to say, I think it was, like, almost a reaction.

And, like, seeing Guts again, the feelings that he had the last time he

it just came back and just, like, Like you said, you're the one that did this

me. I don't know if, like, it was thought out.

Oh, yeah, it was very emotional.

Yeah, it was just like, oh, this guy.

You know, I think it's just like a reaction for him.

But the thing is that Judo, I agree with you. I think that it was very emotional

and not necessarily what he would do with thought.

But Judo noticed it, right? Like, when that happened, he keyed in on Judo

realizing, wait, something's happening here.

And then shortly thereafter.

He's telling Guts, take Casca with you. Go, leave, take her. Right?

He, yes, someone as compassionate and loyal and kind and good as Judo is the

type that people will try to take advantage of, but he's discerning too.

And he's aware of Griffith. And he's like, get Casca away from him, but I

stay and I'll care for him because I'm still loyal.

I'm still...

I can't untangle my feelings either, but I can also see him for what he is and

try to get Casca away.

Just makes me love him even more.

Judo's great because he kind of sees what's going to happen.

If he's willing to do that, what else is he willing to do? And knowing how much

Casca damn near worshiped him, how much will he try to take advantage of her?

Y 'all should just get out of here.

Damn. Judo is Judo is who I want to be.

He's the GOAT.

Okay. Well, we've been here for two hours. Is there anything else y 'all

to cover before we called it?

Not necessarily, I guess.

Chat a little bit. See how the chat feels.

chat what else do you want to see us cover yeah we have a couple more super

chats here that i haven't grabbed yet rereading black swordsman first or i'm

sorry reading black swordsman first is better than chronological order because

we are put in the same headspace as gut don't trust anyone here to be to these

people are all right that's a good point as far as gut doesn't want to trust

anyone but then he learns to trust them only to be betrayed by them

That's a good point. I think it's extremely important to read Black

first because we have to see the Count say no. We have to see that you can deny

the God Hand.

Go ahead.

Did y 'all not read the... Oh, there's just debate over if you should read

Swordsman first.

Because it's not as good.

And so it's like, don't suffer through that. You might quit.

Get to Goldilocks. Oh, okay. Okay.

And because I guess people might consider it spoilers. I don't know. I

think the lore is better with Black Swordsman first.

Yeah, I really enjoyed it for the most part.

Eh, it was okay.

I knew you would.

I kind of, you know, I loved the little man.

The one who was deformed.

The half -cannibalized man.

When it gets kicked.

I loved him. God's so sick of him.

God's so sick of him.

Don't touch me.

Oh my God. I didn't show up to save him from his execution.

But guts is a big softy though.

He is.

Yeah. But one thing I like about black swordsman, I love guts and puck.

Oh, that too.

I love puck.

Early Puck is the best, man. Puck is great, man. The best, man. Great sense

humor. At the end of Golden Age, I'm looking back at Black Swordsman and I'm

just like, everything's so much more depressing now. Now I know why he's so

moody. Now I know why he doesn't want anyone near him. Now I know why he's

on a hunt for all of these, for the Count who ate some of his people.

When we see them come back, but we already saw them, it was... I was saying

even the first panel when the people were leaving comments on my video saying

that one that Corkus was with was the one in the... So it makes it less... Oh,

this is actually kind of respectfully powerful.

Why do you have to do that before you kill her?

It makes it like the fact that he's killing the person who killed one of his

people. It makes it... It's just insane the way it unravels.

Yeah, you understand guts and him just...

pushing people away before they get hurt.

He knows it's inevitable.

He's like, don't get... Instead of saying, don't be around me, he's like,

just going to be this moody, this difficult person to be around.

you don't want to be around me, and Puck doesn't care.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Skull Face did say that the Skull Knight did say that Guts might

have... That Guts might have some elf...

history there.

And so that seems like intentional.

So it seems like there is a reason that Puck is drawn to Guts.

I think Judah was asking Guts to take Kafka because he was going to put

out of his misery. Whoa!

He probably saw Griffith wouldn't be able to see his vision through. You

thought?

Are you telling that?

Well, now I do.

I can see Judah.

Because out of kindness? Yeah.

never even considered it that's such a difficult decision to make for judo

because it's a decision that guts and casca they would never make and so then

you gotta live with eventually like you meet again like hey

this is what had to happen and you just got to deal with those emotions i agree

that that's something that judo was capable of yes judo's strong

I could see him, if he really thought that that was the right call, I could

him doing it. Oh my gosh, that just makes it even better.

You're like, Judah would have killed Griffith!

Judah would have pulled Casca. Judah would have killed Griffith. Judah is

guy. If he would have just had the chance.

Yeah, he would have. I could see that.

I like that perspective. That is great.

That's something that I never would have considered.

But that's, you know, like, damn, again, put himself to the side and kind of.

Oh, that's, I mean, that's him. That's what he does.

That's him.

What do you think will be the ethnicity or nationality of our main cast?

For Berserk Love, actually?

I'm sorry, I didn't pre -read that one.

I was like, ethnicity, main cast.

I think Casca would be Dominican.

I think Jay would go for it.

Hey, listen.

It's interesting.

I don't know.

Griffith is obviously, like, what, Russian?

Obviously.

Yeah. Russian, maybe French, but the silver hair is given Russian. I don't

There you go. You got Jay's take on that.

Casca being Dominican is sending me.

From Trinidad. One or the other. Caribbean or... I'll take it.

The first expression... Gus's first expression was when Gus was fighting on

other side. He was fighting for the other side.

And then he was watching Gus fight.

I don't remember what his expression was in that scene, though.

What was his expression?

The first expression, Black Swordsman?

Black Swordsman, right? Oh, in Black Swordsman.

Well, sure, he was already, I mean, but he had already surrendered himself at

that point. I feel like we go backwards and we see his humanity in the Golden

Age. Yeah.

I think Berserk is a story about recovery.

It's a long, hard road, but the end of Golden Age is the beginning of that

The development of the main cast into the later chapters is beautiful.

You all agree with that?

recovery. Can you put it back up really quickly?

Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

See, I can see it from where I am now.

I mean, where I am now, Guts is still angry boy.

But I can see it at the end of Golden Age because I mean, the messaging of

struggle on struggler is very much like life is going to hurt sometimes.

And like, we keep moving, we keep pushing forward and we struggle on.

And like, obviously that's not a comforting message, but it's real.

And I think that a lot of Guts' story already has been recovery from the rape

that was looming over him his entire life and recovery from everything that

father did to him. And like, you don't shake that off, but like we've watched

him begin his recovery.

So, I mean, I see it.

I can't speak to beyond where I am, but I see it.

Yeah.

Thinking about recovery is, I think that's fair.

But it just makes you think about Gus's struggle and everything he's been

through.

And it's just, ah, it's sad.

Oh, yeah.

Kakajudo, I'm depressed for where she was left off as well.

No, very depressing for Casca.

I think it's different now because it's like Guts has to

deal with it.

Yeah. Okay.

He has to deal with that. He has to deal with that.

Yeah.

She's a reminder.

Where one... It's tough for her because she...

It's almost like a new character.

Yeah. Almost, right?

But Guts remembers everything.

Who she was before, all, like, the strength, the will, all of that, gone.

How she was insanely strong.

He saw her when she was vulnerable, when she was on her period, and how she got

out of that. And then even after an interaction with Guts, she started being

bit more feminine. I think Judo pointed that out.

She's like, something's changed about Cas. I'm not really sure, but she's

different now.

So,

like, all those experiences that got saw in the transformation and to see her

the way she is now, it's like, ah.

And she was there.

Like... Yeah.

I mean, I see what you're saying.

I think that...

Thinking about it from her perspective, though, she's been so violently harmed

that she regressed to essentially a childlike state. But clearly she

it, you know, like getting under the waterfall, trying to clean herself.

Like she doesn't.

It's kind of like the body keeps the score kind of thing, you know.

But then also on top of that, what happens after she's regressed to this

childlike state? She's still afraid of men.

So there's something there still.

Then she is locked in a case, not allowed to leave, doesn't understand

She goes through this horrific miscarriage, clings to her child like

clung to guts, can't even keep that.

And then is re -traumatized by one of her caretakers, you know, when she

the soup on herself and guts rips open her shirt and then tries to kiss her and

then she's like, you know, freaking out. Like, it's like, it's not like she's

erased.

She's still suffering. She just can't communicate her suffering. And she's

going through trauma, but she's locked in a cage.

Almost like feelings away and not remembering why you feel this way.

It's horrifying.

If you, so if you feel that way already, then I would suggest you read to the

end.

Yeah,

I suggest you read to the end. If you're already thinking that, I would suggest

you get to the end. Or if you don't want to read anymore, just let me know. I'll

take you to where you need to go.

I'll leave it at that. I won't say anything more.

I'd also make an argument.

I don't really think it's a story about recovery.

If you continue reading on, one of the biggest issues that I have with Miura is

just...

he guts grows but it's always uh it's always struggle there's rarely any

recovery or any chance to recover it's the struggle like especially with casca

like watching casca throughout this and again i want to say this loosely because

obviously you guys haven't read this far ahead but it just doesn't give me

recovery i don't get recovery from the theme of it and maybe like it all

on the reader right so that's fair

But for me, it more represents just pain and damnation and struggling.

Struggle really is the main thing that comes to my mind versus recovery

throughout this.

It's definitely struggle.

It's definitely struggle throughout, but I think what I enjoy the most

is the bright spot through the struggle.

The fact that it keeps going.

And then there are moments for him that it's like you start to see some light.

And certain characters that are presented, I'm just like, they're

characters for Guts and his recovery.

But there definitely is more struggle.

See, Jay's point makes, well, I was going to say, Jay's point makes, that's

I'm nervous to continue because this story, I don't think I mentioned it in

video, but it reminds me so much of the book, A Little Life, which I finally

read last year.

And they were just asked, it's a very popular story, but it gets a lot of

for how there's just a lot of trauma in there. And the story started off really

strong to me. There is a lot in there, but I didn't see people, understand

people's complaints that by the end of it, I was like.

Okay, and not giving any spoilers because some people may see things as,

know, positive. But for me, I just was exhausted by the end of it. And I feel

like I'm going to get that with Berserk.

And just to Jay's point, that's why I feel like I'm kind of like, I don't

But it's not that I don't need, I don't need a story to be happy all the time.

It's just, I don't know. I need to see like some direction, like a direction

that's just not heaviness.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Yeah, go ahead.

So there is, there's definitely direction.

And I know, I know some people in the chat disagree with me saying that it is

about recovery.

I'd say there's moments in there where you get a reprieve. There is a lot of,

there's moments of reprieve and like rest stops within the story.

but recovery isn't something that I see as a theme because it's more of the

direction that they're all going. And throughout all of Berserk, there is a

direction that you're going to follow. And along the way, you're going to meet

another character like Judo, like very similar to Judo.

Murphy, you already know.

I think you met Sir Pico. You met Sir Pico, right?

Pico. Sir Pico. Sir Pico.

in conviction okay so you're not there are you talking about pretty boy yes him

oh all right yeah i met him yeah so i forgot you never remember names but like

there is like there is there's going to be a lot of really really good things

coming up ember that are like there is a direction there is reprieve there are

moments that are going to warm your heart and look at it like wow

I needed to see this to keep going. Because if I didn't see it, I'm done.

Like, I'm actually done. So, like, but there is direction 100%. A weird thing

that it's dark going forward. But because of the struggle, because of how

it is, those bright spots, oh, man.

They hit.

They hit. There's that tavern scene.

Oh, it's such a sweet moment. I don't know if you got that far, Brago, but

there's a tavern scene.

Cracks in the blade.

Yeah, and you just smile.

Yeah, it's a lot of moments that, and in a weird way, Guts kind of becomes light

for a lot of characters, even in the midst of his darkness.