All language subtitles for Heir.To.An.Execution.A.Granddaughters.Story.2004.1080p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX]

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( female )
I KNOW THAT THE STORY
IS THAT THE PEOPLE

WHO BOUGHT
THE PLOT FOR THEM

HAD TO LIE AND SAY
IT WAS FOR SOMEBODY ELSE...

SO FROM THE BEGINNING
NOBODY EVEN WANTED

THEIR DEAD BODIES.

THOSE ARE
MY GRANDPARENTS.

( bell ringing )

SORRY.

HELLO.

I'M LOOKING FOR
A PARTICULAR GRAVE.

CAN YOU
GIVE ME A MAP ?

( female )
WHAT'S THE NAME ?

IT'S ROSENBERG.

ETHEL AND JULIUS ROSENBERG.

NO.

YOU CAN'T DO
THAT LOCATION ?

I MEAN, THIS IS--
THIS IS MY FAMILY.

( male reporter )
Dateline, Sing Sing,
June 19th, 1953.

Someone had passed America's
atomic bomb secrets to Russia.

This was an undisputed fact
that the whole world knew.

The federal government
had laid the crime

at the doorstep of
two native New Yorkers,

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg,

but to the end
they both protested

their innocence
of the theft.

In April of 1951,
the Federal Court

of Judge Irving R. Kaufman found
the pair guilty as charged,

and sentenced them to death
in the electric chair

to pay for their
crime of treason.

( Ivy Meeropol )
I GREW UP WITH IMAGES OF
MY GRANDPARENTS IN MY HOUSE.

THERE WAS THE PICASSO.

THERE WAS THE LEGER.

BUT I DIDN'T ASK MY FATHER
TOO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THEM,

BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT
TO BRING UP PAINFUL MEMORIES.

( male on tv )
... trying to keep it a one run
game in the top of the ninth...

DAMN.

DAMN.

( Ivy Meeropol )
WHAT ARE YOU
DOING, DAD ?

THEY'RE DOWN.

DAMNIT.

I DIDN'T FOLLOW BASEBALL
'TIL THE WORLD SERIES OF 1952,

AND IN 1953, I WATCHED
BASEBALL ALL SUMMER LONG,

AND THAT'S WHEN
I GOT HOOKED.

I WAS A DODGER FAN
BECAUSE JULIUS ROSENBERG
WAS A DODGER FAN.

I ALWAYS USED
TO SAY THAT.

"I AM A DODGER FAN 'CAUSE
MY FATHER WAS A DODGER FAN."

AND, BUT WATCHING IT
WAS A GOOD DISTRACTION.

IN FACT, ROBBY AND I WERE
WATCHING A BASEBALL GAME,

IT WAS IN ACTUALITY, IT WAS
A PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS GAME

THE AFTERNOON OF JUNE 19th
WHEN THEY KEPT INTERRUPTING IT

WITH ALL THESE
HORRIBLE ANNOUNCEMENTS

ABOUT WHAT WAS GONNA
HAPPEN THAT DAY.

( male )
Kind of a ghastly climax
to those curious lives

that had started out
in the poverty

of the lower east side
here in New York,

which for a time
had shown great promise.

He was a graduate
electrical engineer.

She had hoped to be
an opera singer.

Had a good voice...

They were sort of
childhood sweethearts.

Everything to live for.

Couple children...

Residence in this
great country...

with all of
its opportunities.

I LIKE THESE PICTURES,
THESE ARE SO COOL.

YOU KNOW,
THIS CLOSE-UP IS NICE.

BECAUSE IF YOU
LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL,

YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE
HOW DIRTY MY NAILS WERE.

AND THIS IS BEFORE
ROBBY'S HAIR WAS CUT.

( Ivy Meeropol )
AND HOW OLD WERE
YOU GUYS THERE ?

WELL, HE'S THREE
AND I'M SEVEN,

OR HE'S TWO
AND I'M SIX ?

THIS IS A VERY
FAMOUS PHOTO RIGHT HERE,

BECAUSE, THIS IS PROBABLY
IN CENTRAL PARK,

AND IT'S PROBABLY RIGHT
AFTER THEY GOT MARRIED.

AND IT'S YOU KNOW
REALLY, REALLY NICE,

THEY'RE VERY,
VERY HAPPY, OBVIOUSLY.

I MEAN, ROBBY AND I CAN SAY
THAT THERE WAS WARMTH,

THERE WAS LOVE,
THERE WAS CUDDLING,

THERE WAS TEACHING
AND BASEBALL

AND LOVE OF MUSIC.

WE HAD THAT, AND EVEN THOUGH
ROBBY WAS ONLY THREE,

HE HAS A SENSE OF
WARMTH, YOU KNOW.

AND WE CAN HAVE THAT,
BUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T,

AND THAT IS VERY,
VERY UNFORTUNATE,

AND IT'S REALLY
UNFORTUNATE

BECAUSE THEY HAVE
BEEN MYTHOLOGIZED SO.

THEY MADE
DIFFICULT CHOICES.

AND, I MAY NOT HAVE AGREED
WITH ALL THEIR CHOICES.

THERE ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE
OUT THERE WHO WANT TO SAY

EITHER THE ROSENBERGS ARE DEVILS
OR THE ROSENBERGS ARE SAINTS.

AND THE REALITY IS THEY'RE
NEITHER DEVILS NOR SAINTS.

( Ivy Meeropol )
THERE'S A FORGOTTEN GUY
IN MY GRANDPARENT'S CASE

BECAUSE IT WAS ACTUALLY
THE ROSENBERG-SOBELL TRIAL.

I'VE KNOWN MORTY
MY WHOLE LIFE,

BUT I'VE NEVER
REALLY TALKED TO HIM.

( male on intercom )
Hi.

MORTY ?

I'm coming down.

OKAY.

( female )
HEY, NO CAMERAS
IN THE LOBBY.

DO YOU WANT
TO GO FOR--

NO CAMERAS IN--

TAKE HER,
TAKE HER, TAKE HER !

NO, DON'T YOU DARE,
PLEASE DON'T !

HENRIETTA, THESE ARE MY FRIENDS,
WE'LL INTRODUCE YOU LATER.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, IVY.

YOU TOO.

WHEN I WAS CLEANING UP
MIKE PERLIN'S OFFICE,

THAT'S THE LAWYER,

ONE OF THE THINGS I RAN INTO
WAS THIS BOX AND I OPENED IT UP,

AND I WAS
SURPRISED AT THE...

LET'S SEE,
WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE ?

HERE'S A BADGE
FOR JULIUS.

OH, WOW.

AT SIGNAL CORP.

SIGNAL MANUFACTURING
CORPORATION.

THAT WAS WHEN HE WAS
WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT

AND THEN
HE GOT CANNED.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

A COUPLE OF LITTLE OTHER THINGS
THAT THEY HAD AT THAT TIME.

SO I RESCUED THEM.

WONDER IF THIS "E"
IS FOR ETHEL ?

NO, EXCELLENCE,
EXCELLENCE.

I REMEMBER WE GOT THOSE,
BUT I FORGOT WHAT THEY WERE.

SO, I GUESS WHERE
WE SHOULD JUST START

IS FROM
THE VERY BEGINNING.

USUALLY, USUALLY...

A GOOD PLACE TO START.

SO I MEAN, FOR ME...

WHERE IS THE BEGINNING,
THOUGH ?

WELL, THAT'S TRUE,
WHERE IS THE BEGINNING ?

HOW ABOUT TRYING
TO UNDERSTAND

WHO MY GRANDPARENTS
WERE AS PEOPLE ?

THEY WERE VERY
ORDINARY PEOPLE.

WHEN I KNEW THEM
THEY WERE...

NOT DIFFERENT FROM
ANY OTHER PEOPLE YOU KNOW,

EXCEPT THAT THEY WERE POLITICAL,
VERY POLITICAL.

WHAT WERE THEY
LIKE TOGETHER ?

I MEAN, THERE WAS ALWAYS THIS,
"THEY WERE SO IN LOVE..."

OH, THEY WERE VERY...
OH YEAH.

AWW.

BUT WHAT DID YOU
LIKE ABOUT THEM ?

THEY WERE POLITICAL,
WE WERE COMRADES.

THEY WERE MY
KIND OF PEOPLE.

SO WHAT WOULD YOU DO ?

WOULD YOU HAVE DINNER ?

WE DIDN'T HAVE DINNER,
WE JUST TALKED.

WE NEVER WENT OUT
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

WE JUST TALKED,
THAT WAS IT.

WHAT WERE
THE HOT TOPICS ?

WELL, LET'S SEE,

THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR
STARTED AROUND THEN,

AND THEN THE SOVIET UNION.

WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT WAS TAKING
PLACE IN THE SOVIET UNION.

DID MY GRANDMOTHER STRIKE YOU AS
SOMEONE WHO CARED ABOUT THIS--

FUNNY WHEN YOU SAY,
"MY GRANDMOTHER."

I HAVE TO DO
A DOUBLE TAKE...

( laughing )

HOW COME ?

WELL, I CAN'T THINK
OF HER AS A GRANDMOTHER.

I KNOW.

BECAUSE SHE WAS SO YOUNG
WHEN YOU LAST SAW HER.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

WHAT WAS HER ROLE ?

SHE WAS MORE INTO CHILDREN,
AND HOW TO BRING UP CHILDREN.

( Michael Meeropol )
MORTY SOBELL.

MORTY SOBELL.

WHO IS MORTY SOBELL ?

MORTON SOBELL IS
THE THIRD DEFENDANT

IN YOUR
GRANDPARENTS' CASE.

THE KEY TO MORTY IS

HE WAS OFFERED THE CHANCE
TO PLEAD GUILTY,

AND POINT THE FINGER
AT YOUR GRANDFATHER.

HE REFUSED, AND FOR THAT
HE SPENT 19 YEARS IN JAIL.

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

MICHAEL HAS
ASKED ME SOMETIMES,

"YOU KNOW SOMETHING
I DON'T KNOW ?"

YEAH.

( laughing )

DO YOU ?

HE THINKS THAT I HAVE SECRETS
WHICH I COULD IMPART TO THEM.

RIGHT, THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW,
IF YOU KNEW JULIUS,

COULD JULIUS
HAVE BEEN--

WOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT HE
COULD BE WOULD BE CAPABLE OF ?

WAS HE CAPABLE ?

I DON'T KNOW
WHAT IT TAKES,

WHAT CAPABILITY
IT TAKES TO BE A SPY...

SO ALL YOU CAN SAY IS,
YOU DON'T KNOW.

I HAVE NO PRIVATE KNOWLEDGE,
THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.

YOU KNOW PEOPLE ASK ME,
"WAS HE INNOCENT ?"

AND, "YOU KNOW
AS MUCH AS I DO."

( woman operatic singing )

THE EAST SIDE
WAS NO PICNIC.

I WENT THROUGH SCHOOL
WITH ETHEL.

WE DIDN'T HAVE
ANY MONEY,

BUT ETHEL SKIPPED CLASSES
BECAUSE SHE WAS SO BRIGHT.

THE BEST THING THAT HAPPENED
THERE WAS WHEN ETHEL SANG.

AND THEY CAME IN
FROM THE OTHER ROOMS,

THAT EVERYBODY
WAS LISTENING.

AND WHEN I THINK OF IT
I BEGIN TO CRY.

ETHEL WAS VERY,
VERY SPECIAL.

I WENT TO A COUPLE OF PARTIES
ON THE LOWER EAST SIDE.

I MET THEM THERE.

AND I WAS INVITED
TO THEIR WEDDING.

( Ivy Meeropol )
WHAT WAS THAT LIKE ?

WELL, IT WAS AS JEWISH AS CAN BE
WITHOUT THE ORTHODOX BULLSHIT.

IT WAS A JEWISH WEDDING.

THEY WE AS JEWISH
AS THEY COME.

I MEAN YOU...

YOU COULD ALMOST SMELL
THE PICKLED HERRING.

I FIRST MET JULIUS
AT CITY COLLEGE.

I THINK THE YEAR
WAS 1934 OR FIVE.

AT THAT TIME I WAS
AN ACTIVIST ON THE CAMPUS,

AND SO I RAN INTO
JULIE AT A MEETING

THAT THE YOUNG COMMUNIST LEAGUE
HAD PUT TOGETHER.

THERE WAS A LOT OF
CAMPUS ACTIVITY.

CITY COLLEGE IN THE '30s MAKES
BERKELEY IN THE '60s LOOK PALE.

STARTING POINT
OF MY POLITICS

WAS SEEING A MAN PICKING FOOD
OUT OF A GARBAGE CAN.

I WAS 11 OR 12
AND MY DAD SAID TO ME,

"YOU'RE TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND
WHY PEOPLE ARE REDUCED TO THAT."

I SAID, "PAPA,
I WANT TO KNOW NOW."

AND HE SAID,
"SON, I CAN'T TELL YOU."

IT WASN'T UNTIL THREE
OR FOUR YEARS LATER THAT

I RAN INTO THE YOUNG COMMUNISTS
AND WHAT THEY SAID EXPLAINED

WHY THAT MAN WAS EATING
OUT OF THE GARBAGE CAN.

( singing )

HELLO !

HOW ARE YOU ?

GOOD, HOW ARE YOU ?

IT IS SO TERRIFIC
TO SEE YOU.

YOU TOO.

I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

IT'S 50 YEARS THAT JUST
SEEMS TO SWIRL RIGHT BY.

I KNOW.

THE HOUSE OF DETENTION
WHERE ETHEL AND I WERE JAILED

USED TO BE ON 6th AVENUE
BETWEEN 9th AND 10th STREETS,

AND WHEN THE VAN
CAME TO LOAD US UP

TO TAKE US TO COURT,

ETHEL AND JULIUS
WOULD BE IN THAT VAN.

AND IT WAS
PITCH BLACK IN THERE,

AND ONE TIME A PRISONER
LIT A CIGARETTE

AND IN THE FLICKERING LIGHT
WE SAW ETHEL AND JULIE

TRYING TO KISS
THROUGH THAT GATE.

AFTER THE TRIAL,
SHE WAS MOVED TO MY FLOOR

AND THAT GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY
THEN TO BECOME FRIENDLY WITH HER

FOR THAT BRIEF TIME
THAT SHE WAS THERE.

IN THOSE DAYS,
WE HAD THIS GREAT FEELING

OF SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY,

AND IF WE WORKED TOGETHER AND
WE LINKED ARMS WITH OTHER PEOPLE

WHO WANTED A BETTER WAY
OF LIFE, WE WOULD GET IT.

AND WE WERE
ACUTELY AWARE

THAT THINGS COULDN'T
GO ON THE WAY THEY WERE.

I WOULD PASS LINES OF MEN

WAITING ON LINE FOR
A SOUP KITCHEN TO OPEN,

HOURS BEFORE, THREADBARE,
IN THE MID WINTER.

I SAW FAMILIES THAT WERE BEING
EVICTED FROM THEIR APARTMENTS,

BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T
PAY THEIR RENT.

YOU HAD TO BE DEAD FROM
THE NECK UP NOT TO FEEL RADICAL,

THAT SOME--
A CHANGE WAS NECESSARY.

LISTEN,
I'M GETTING UPSET.

( male )
Communism in reality
is not a political party.

It is a way of life.

An evil and malignant
way of life.

It reveals a condition
akin to disease

that spreads
like an epidemic.

And like an epidemic,
a quarantine is necessary

to keep it from
infecting this nation.

A LOT OF PEOPLE CHARACTERIZE
THE TIME AS ROMANTIC

THAT PEOPLE WERE...
DID IT...

YES, PEOPLE WERE ROMANTIC
IN WHAT COULD BE DONE.

YOU DREAMED.

YOU DREAMED A LOT OF...

WHAT WOULD YOU
DREAM OF ?

YOU DREAMED OF
A SOCIALIST COUNTRY WHERE--

WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE ?

THERE WASN'T HUNGER

AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE
DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BLACKS.

SO WHAT YOU AND JULIUS
AND YOUR GROUP OF FRIENDS

WERE FIGHTING FOR
WAS A SOCIALIST WORLD.

A SOCIALIST WORLD, YEAH.

AND WE REALLY BELIEVED
THAT THE SOVIET UNION
WAS SUCH A MODEL.

NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

AND WE REALLY BELIEVED THAT
WITHOUT THE SOVIET UNION,

THE WORLD WAS GOING
DOWN A HORRIBLE PATH.

CONSEQUENTLY, WE WOULD DEDICATE
ALL OUR ENERGIES AND OUR LIVES,

IF NECESSARY, TO SEE TO IT THAT
THE SOVIET UNION WASN'T SMASHED.

Communists have been,
still are,

and always will be
a menace to freedom,

to democratic ideals,
to the worship of God,

and to America's
way of life.

Victory will be assured
once communists

are identified
and exposed.

MY IMAGE OF JULIUS
WAS AS A GOOD GUY,

BUT WHAT I CALLED A
"DRIPNOSE."

IF A POLICEMAN
RAISED HIS CLUB

HE WOULD SHAKE MORE
THAN I WOULD SHAKE.

IT'S A VERY
SUPERFICIAL THING,

BUT THAT IS TRULY
THE WAY I FELT.

THAT'S WHY I WAS SO AMAZED
BY THE WAY HE STOOD UP.

ABSOLUTELY
FLABBERGASTED BY IT.

Senator, you have
the distinction of having

coined a new word namely,
"McCarthyism."

Now, how do you define
McCarthyism, sir ?

Calling a man a Communist
who is later proven to be one.

A lot of people
may raise the question,

"why all this hullabaloo
about being fair,

"particularly when the people
you're investigating

are a bunch of traitors ?"

In fact, I've heard
some people even say,

"after all, they're
a bunch of rats.

why don't we go out
and shoot them ?"

Well, I agree that
the Communists are rats,

but on the other hand
remember this:

When you go out to shoot rats,
you've got to shoot straight.

WONDER IF THEY
WALKED DOWN HERE,

NO, THEY MUST HAVE
COME IN THE BACK.

NO, THERE'S PROBABLY
A BACK ENTRANCE.

YEAH.

( door slamming )

THAT'S A SCARY SOUND.

IT IS.

IT MAKES ME SWEAT
JUST BEING HERE.

YEAH, IT'S KIND OF
TERRIFYING, RIGHT ?

YEAH.

SO HOW DO YOU THINK
OUR LEGACY HELPED YOU

DECIDE TO BECOME
A LAWYER ?

I THINK FROM
THE BEGINNING

I NEVER HAD A SENSE
THAT JUSTICE WAS EASY,

OR SOMETHING THAT
YOU COULD COUNT ON,

OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD OCCUR
UNLESS PEOPLE WORKED AT IT.

I GUESS I STARTED OFF
WITH THIS SENSE OF

THAT THESE HUGE
INJUSTICES OCCUR.

BEING IN HERE,
I CAN'T HELP THINKING

ABOUT BEING THEIR LAWYER.

YOU KNOW,
HOW THAT WOULD BE ?

I THINK PART OF THE REASON
I WANTED TO GET INTO LAW

WHEN I WAS YOUNGER
WAS THE SENSE OF,

"OH, I'M GONNA
BE A LAWYER,

AND I'M GONNA PROVE
THEIR INNOCENCE," YOU KNOW,

I'M SURE WE ALL THOUGHT
ABOUT THAT WHEN WE WERE KIDS.

SAY WE FOUND,
LIKE REAL PROOF

THAT THERE WAS
CONVINCING EVIDENCE

THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE
DONE SOMETHING,

DO YOU THINK IT WOULD CHANGE
HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THEM ?

NO, I MEAN,
NOT AT ALL.

FIRST OF ALL THERE ARE
SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS ON,

AT WHICH WHAT HAPPENED
TO THEM WAS AN INJUSTICE.

YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE FACTS:
NO MATTER WHAT,

I DO BELIEVE THAT
THEY WERE FRAMED,

THAT THERE WAS SERIOUS
PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT,

AND ALSO, I CAN'T REALLY
IMAGINE ANYONE IN OUR FAMILY

BEING A COMPLETELY
HAPLESS VICTIM, RIGHT ?

THAT'S NOT THE WAY
ANY OF US ARE.

YEAH, YEAH.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY DID
WHAT THEY WERE, YOU KNOW

CONVICTED OF
BY ANY STRETCH,

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW
I THINK YOU LOOK AT OUR FAMILY,

AND YOU SEE
A LOT OF PEOPLE

THAT TAKE CONTROL
OF THEIR LIVES.

I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT
THEY WERE THE SAME WAY.

IT'S SO WEIRD TO PICTURE
THE FACT THAT

LIKE NOBODY SITTING
ON THESE BENCHES

WAS REALLY HERE FOR THEM,
EITHER, YOU KNOW ?

NONE OF THE FAMILY,
YOU KNOW ?

IT WAS PROBABLY MOST
OF THE PEOPLE IN HERE

JUST WERE LOOKING FOR...

BLOOD.

BLOOD, YEAH.

( cheering and applause )

Ladies and gentlemen,
friends,

I'd like
to read you a poem

written by
a good American:

"And when the Rosenbergs
are dead

"and wrapped in shrouds
of Cremlin red

"all future traitors
will be aware

"that they will fry
in the electric chair.

"The Rosenbergs
must fry and die.

"If this death they
should escape

"our starry banner
will cease to fly.

"O' may God's lights
spark the death

of this communist pair."

( male reporter )
The ring was first uncovered

following the arrest
of Klaus Fuchs in England.

David Greenglass,
Mrs. Rosenberg's brother,

confessed theft
of the secrets

while stationed at the
Los Alamos Atomic Project.

He later became
the government's chief witness

in the prosecution of
Sobell and the Rosenbergs.

( male )
For half a century now

he's known that
his false testimony

cost his sister her life.

( male interviewer )
How do you think history
will remember you ?

As the spy that
turned his family in.

Do you care ?

Not particularly.

I don't care.

( Michael Meeropol )
AS A YOUNGSTER,

I ALWAYS RESERVED ALL MY HATRED
FOR DAVE GREENGLASS,

DAVID AND
RUTH GREENGLASS.

THIS IS SO INTERESTING:

WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD
AND LIVING IN THE SHELTER,

I HAD BEEN PUNISHED,

AND I ENDED UP
BEING ALONE,

WHILE ALL KIDS WERE
PLAYING ALL DAY OUTSIDE

AND I COULDN'T PLAY,

I WAS JUST ALONE INSIDE
AND I SPENT THE WHOLE TIME

TALKING ABOUT
THE KINDS OF VENGEANCE

I WOULD ENACT ON DAVID
AND RUTH GREENGLASS.

( Ivy Meeropol )
WHAT WERE YOU GONNA DO ?

I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER
AT THE TIME, YOU KNOW.

I DO KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I HAVE ALWAYS AS A KID--

AND I GUESS
EVEN TO TODAY...

I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN
EXPOSURE AS A TREMENDOUS THING.

YOU KNOW, PROVING THAT
SOMEBODY LIED PUBLICALLY

IS ALWAYS VERY
IMPORTANT TO ME,

AS OPPOSED
TO SOMEBODY ELSE

MIGHT LIKE TO SMASH THEM
IN THE FACE.

YOU KNOW, SO FOR INSTANCE,
DAVID GREENGLASS,

WHAT I WANTED
TO DO IS FIND HIM

WHEN HE WAS
OUT OF JAIL

AND STAND BEHIND HIM AND
YELL VERY LOUD, "EX-CON !"

AND OF COURSE,
I HAD SEEN MOVIES

WHERE PEOPLE WHO WERE
IN DANGER OF BEING EXPOSED

AS EX-CONS
WOULD BE VERY UPSET.

SO I THOUGHT HE WOULD SAY,
"OH PLEASE, DON'T TELL ANYBODY."

EX-CON !

WHAT DID YOU SAY,
EX-CON ?!

YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING,
"WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT ?"

REVENGE, I LOVE REVENGE,
REVENGE IS SO SWEET.

I REMEMBER WHEN I CALLED YOU
FROM COLLEGE FRESHMAN YEAR,

AND I'D JUST STARTED
READING ABOUT EVERYTHING.

THE FULL IMPACT OF WHAT
DAVID GREENGLASS DID, HIT ME

AND I WAS CRYING
AND I SAID,

"WHY DON'T WE GO
FIND DAVID GREENGLASS,

THAT FUCKING BASTARD,
LET'S GO GET HIM.

LET'S GO, AT LEAST
GO KNOCK ON HIS DOOR,

AND SAY, "HERE WE ARE."

( Abe Osheroff )
GREENGLASS ?

PATHETIC CREATURE.

IF I WERE KIND,
I WOULD PITY HIM.

LONG BEFORE THIS ALL HAPPENED
AND I MET THAT KID,

HE WAS A SKUNK.

HE WAS AN ABSOLUTE SKUNK
THE MINUTE I LOOKED AT HIM.

FORGETTING ALL
THE POLITICS,

HE WAS JUST A SELFISH,
LITTLE SKUNK.

BUT IT'S THIS
CRUEL IRONY:

I WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO ANY
OF ETHEL OR JULIUS' SIBLINGS

AND THEY'RE ALL GONE,
EXCEPT HE STILL LIVES.

GRANDMA'S GONE TOO.

SHE WAS A WITCH.

TESSIE.

ABSOLUTE WITCH.

COLD-HEARTED BITCH.

SO YOUR FIRST INTRODUCTION TO
GREENGLASS WAS IN THE COURTROOM.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

AND WHAT WAS THAT LIKE ?

WELL, THERE WAS THIS WAY HE
WAS SORT OF SMILING, YOU KNOW--

WHAT WAS THAT ?

THAT WAS WEIRD,
YOU KNOW.

HE ALWAYS HAD THAT,
WITH HIS FACE.

A SMIRK.

IT WAS ALWAYS THAT,
NO MATTER WHAT.

AT TIMES IT WAS SO
INAPPROPRIATE, YOU KNOW ?

WHEN HE'S TALKING ABOUT
THESE SERIOUS THINGS.

I FELT SOMETHING WAS
WRONG HERE, WITH THIS GUY.

DO YOU REMEMBER ETHEL,

OR TALKING ABOUT WHAT
DAVID WAS DOING ?

YES.

SHE COULDN'T
UNDERSTAND IT.

SHE HAD ALWAYS BEEN
HIS BIG SISTER,

AND SHE HAD ALWAYS
THOUGHT OF HIM

AS THIS CUTE LITTLE KID.

SHE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND
HOW HE COULD DO SUCH A THING.

BUT SHE ALSO KNEW WHAT
PRESSURE HE WAS UNDER,

BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN
UNDER THE SAME PRESSURE.

THE FBI KEPT AFTER HIM,

AND THEY WERE...

BUILDING A KIND
OF STEEL TRAP,

AND HE NEVER SAW IT.

WHAT HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT WAS
THAT THEY NOT ARREST HIS WIFE,

WHO WAS THEN ILL,
AND HE HAD A NEW BABY.

AND SO HE THOUGHT THE EASIEST
WAY OUT OF THIS THING,

"I'LL TELL THEM WHAT
THEY WANT TO KNOW."

AND THAT'S WHEN
THE WHOLE THING EXPLODED.

( male reporter )
Ethel typed my notes.

"That was Greenglass'
story in 1951,

and he stuck to it
for half a century.

but now he has
a different recollection.

I don't know who
typed it, frankly.

To this day
I can't even remember

that the typing
took place.

( male interviewer )
And did Cohen encourage
you to testify that

you saw Ethel
typing up the notes ?

Of course he did.

Did you realize at the time,
or when you were testifying,

the importance
of this--

The evidence
you were providing ?

I had no idea that
it was important at all.

I MEAN,
HE COULD'VE SAID,

"NO, I'M JUST GONNA
TELL YOU THE TRUTH."

BUT HE WAS ACTUALLY WILLING
TO EMBELLISH ON THE TRUTH

IN ORDER TO HELP OUT
THE GOVERNMENT.

AND SO HE GETS
WORSE AND WORSE.

YOU KNOW, HE'S NO LONGER
JUST A FRIGHTENED GUY.

HE'S A WILLING COOPERATOR

WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S
MACHINATIONS.

( Ivy Meeropol )
YOU STILL DON'T
HAVE ANY URGE NOW

TO EVER TALK
TO HIM OR...

NO, I MEAN WHAT
WOULD BE THE POINT ?

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN,
YOU KNOW ?

YELL AT HIM
TO HIS FACE ?

YOU KNOW, BIG DEAL,
YOU KNOW.

YEAH...

AND WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO,
YELL AT HIM TO HIS FACE ?

WELL, I WOULD
LIKE TO...

TALK TO HIM AND
MAKE HIM CONFESS.

WELL, I MEAN,
CONFESS TO WHAT ?

HE'S ALREADY CONFESSED
ON 60 MINUTES,

YOU SAW HIM CONFESS.

YEAH, BUT
IN SUCH A--

I GUESS I WOULD WANT HIM
TO CONFESS AND SHOW REMORSE.

WELL, YOU CAN'T
MAKE HIM SHOW REMORSE.

IT'S SO CRAZY
THAT ALL THIS TIME

HE'S LIVED NOT
THAT FAR FROM ME.

I MEAN, THIS WAS
SUCH A SHORT DRIVE.

IS THIS HIS STREET ?

( male )
THIS IS, UH, THE STREET
BEFORE HIS STREET.

THE STREET
BEFORE HIS STREET.

WE'RE GONNA BE THERE
IN ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

I'M NERVOUS.

UH OH, HERE WE GO,
TO YOUR LEFT.

WHAT, WHAT ?!

THAT'S HIS HOUSE ?

LOOK AT HOW ALL THE BLINDS
ARE SHUT LIKE NOBODY'S HOME.

THEY'VE GOT ONE OF THOSE
SECURITY SYSTEMS THERE.

MY GOD, I MEAN,
IT'S JUST LIKE

THE MOST INNOCUOUS PLACE
YOU COULD IMAGINE, YOU KNOW.

THERE'S NOTHING
THAT EVEN SAYS ANYTHING

ABOUT THE PERSON
WHO LIVES THERE.

SO THIS IS WHERE
HE ENDED UP.

WOW.

WONDER IF HIS
NEIGHBORS KNOW.

GOING TO SEE HIS HOUSE
JUST PART OF LETTING GO

OF THE FACT THAT
HE JUST REPRESENTED THIS...

ULTIMATE EVIL.

I FEEL KIND OF NAUSEOUS.

WOW.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO, DAD, I WANT TO TELL YOU
SOMETHING THAT I--

THAT I DID.

ALRIGHT.

I WENT TO
DAVID GREENGLASS' HOUSE.

HOLY SHIT.

I JUST DROVE BY THOUGH.

OH.

YOU FOUND IT ?

I FOUND HIS HOUSE...

HOW THE HELL
DID YOU FIND IT ?

UMM...
WE HAVE OUR WAYS.

UNBELIEVABLE.

I WOULDN'T HAVE DREAMED
THAT IN A MILLION YEARS

THAT YOU WOULD
"A" HAVE FOUND IT,
AND "B" DRIVEN BY IT.

THE LAST THING
I WANTED WAS FOR HIM

TO WALK OUT
THAT FRONT DOOR.

WELL, IF YOU DID, YOU COULD'VE
FILMED HIM AND DRIVEN AWAY.

THAT'S TRUE.

MAYBE WE'LL GO BACK.

WHO'S THE "WE" ?

NOT ME.

I HAVE NO INTEREST.

"1950.

FOUND IN THE CLOSET,
8:18 AT NIGHT."

THIS MUST HAVE BEEN THE FIRST
TIME THE FBI CLEANED OUT,

STARTED TO CLEAN OUT
THEIR APARTMENT.

EVIDENTLY IT WAS USED
TO CONFIRM THE FACT

THEY HAD CONNECTIONS
WITH THE COMMUNIST PARTY.

SO THIS "SAVE A SPANISH
REPUBLICAN CHILD"

WAS PROOF OF
EVILDOINGS.

PROSECUTION INTRODUCED
THIS FACSIMILE JELLO BOX

TO REPRESENT
THE RECOGNITION SIGNAL

SUPPOSEDLY DEVISED
BY JULIUS ROSENBERG,

FOR GREENGLASS
AND HARRY GOLD.

ROY COHN IS CREDITED
WITH SELECTING

IMITATION RASPBERRY
FOR THE FACSIMILE.

I'M TOUCHING IT.

YOU KNOW I NEVER
ASKED MY DAD

IF THEY EVER
EVEN HAD JELLO.

OH, LOOK AT THIS,
THE CONSOLE TABLE.

THE ROSENBERGS KEPT SAYING,
"WE BOUGHT IT AT MACY'S."

THE PROSECUTION WAS SAYING IT
WAS A GIFT FROM THE RUSSIANS,

AND IT HAD SOME
SPECIAL THING UNDERNEATH IT

THAT YOU COULD TAKE
PHOTOGRAPHS WITH.

THEY ACTUALLY DISCOVERED
BEFORE THE EXECUTION

THAT THE ROSENBERGS
WERE TELLING THE TRUTH,

THAT THEY HAD
BOUGHT IT AT MACY'S,

BUT JUDGE KAUFMAN REFUSED
TO HEAR THE NEW EVIDENCE.

THAT'S THE LENS MOLD.

LOOK, DAVID GREENGLASS,
JUNE 15th, 1950.

THIS IS THE CROSS SECTION
OF THE A-BOMB.

THAT WOULD HELP YOU
DEVELOP THE A-BOMB ?

OH MY GOD.

THIS IS A LETTER THAT
ETHEL WROTE TO MY DAD.

"MY SWEET MICHAEL BOY,
I HAVE JUST HAD MY DINNER

"AND FEEL LIKE HAVING
A LITTLE VISIT WITH YOU.

"YESTERDAY
I WENT TO COURT

"AND THERE I SAW
YOUR DEAR DADDY

"AND WHAT DO YOU
THINK WE SPOKE OF ?

"YOU AND ROBBY
OF COURSE,

AND OF HOW MUCH WE MISS YOU
AND WHAT WE CAN DO..."

UMM...

"AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO KEEP YOU
BOTH HAPPY AND HEALTHY.

"FIRST, I WANT YOU TO KNOW
THAT DADDY LOOKED VERY NICE

AND SAID
HE FELT WELL."

UMM...

"HE IS THE SAME WONDERFUL
DADDY THAT YOU KNEW

"WHO ALWAYS LOVED
BOTH HIS BOYS

"AND WOULD ASK
FOR NOTHING MORE NOW

"THAN TO BE BACK
LIVING AND PLAYING

AND HAVING FUN
WITH THEM."

"MANY, MANY HUGS AND KISSES
TO MY DEAR CHILDREN

"WHOSE MOMMY AND DADDY...

"LOVES THEM VERY MUCH,

YOUR MOMMY, ETHEL."

( cello playing )

"We told you the truth."

"We are innocent.

"The truth does not change.

We now again solemnly
declare our innocence."

THIS IS ROBBY AND I
VISITING SING SING.

THAT'S MANNY BLOCH.

FIRST TIME WE VISITED THEM
WAS IN AUGUST '51,

AND WE VISITED THEM

FOR ALMOST TWO FULL YEARS
AFTER THAT.

( Ivy Meeropol )
DO YOU REMEMBER
THE FIRST VISIT ?

OH, I REMEMBER THE FIRST VISIT
LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY.

WE SAW THEM SEPARATELY,
AND WE HID.

WE HID TO MAKE BELIEVE
WE WEREN'T THERE

AND MANNY WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY,
"OH THEY COULDN'T COME,

AND WE GIGGLED
AND RAN OUT,

AND MY MOTHER,
WE BOTH VISITED HER,

WE BOTH GAVE HER A HUG SAYING,
"YOU LOOK SMALLER."

AND OF COURSE
SHE IMMEDIATELY REACTED,

"WELL, IT'S BECAUSE
YOU'VE GROWN SO MUCH."

I REMEMBER ONE
CONVERSATION WHICH WAS,

"LOOK, ARE YOU
REALLY INNOCENT ?"

THAT WAS ONE CONVERSATION
THAT WAS VERY BRIEF.

OF COURSE THEY RESPONDED, "BUT
OF COURSE WE ARE," YOU KNOW.

LATER SOMEBODY TOLD ME
THEY WERE QUITE UPSET

THAT I ASKED THAT QUESTION,

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
EVEN WE WOULD DOUBT THEM.

REMEMBER, I'M THE ONE WHO
WHEN I WENT INTO THE JAIL

AT THE AGE OF NINE,
I SAID TO THE GUARD,

"CAN I SEE
THE ELECTRIC CHAIR ?"

YOU WANTED TO...

I WASN'T AFRAID.

I WANTED TO SHOW
I WASN'T AFRAID OF IT.

ALSO REMEMBER
I WAS YOUNG.

I DIDN'T KNOW.

WELL, THEY
WEREN'T SCARED.

EVERY TIME WE SAW THEM
THEY WEREN'T SCARED.

AND HERE WE ARE,
MUST HAVE BEEN IN MAY.

FLOWERS FOR
MOTHER'S DAY.

WE GOT OUT OF
THE PARKING LOT
AT SING SING.

THE NEWSPAPER
REPORTERS GOT US.

LOOK AT HOW
HAPPY ROBBY IS.

HE'S GOING
TO SEE MOMMY.

THAT'S REALLY
A GREAT TESTIMONY

TO HOW PLEASANT AND
WONDERFUL THE VISITS WERE.

WHICH THEY WERE, I MEAN,
THEY WERE REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THIS IS THE LETTER
I WROTE TO EISENHOWER.

DO YOU REMEMBER
WRITING THE LETTER ?

OH, ABSOLUTELY, I REMEMBER
WRITING THE LETTER.

HOW DID THAT
COME ABOUT ?

SOMEBODY GAVE ME
A PIECE OF PAPER

WITH A TYPED SCRIPT ON IT
AND SAID, "PLEASE COPY THIS."

I WENT DOWN TO WASHINGTON
FOR A DEMONSTRATION.

HANDED THE LETTER
TO THE WHITE HOUSE GUARD.

ON FILM.

GOT A CHANCE
TO SAY "NO COMMENT."

DO YOU REMEMBER FEELING
LIKE THIS LETTER

COULD ACTUALLY
CHANGE SOMETHING ?

I DIDN'T.

NO, I KNEW THAT THERE
WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE

TRYING TO GET
CLEMENCY.

AND I, YOU KNOW,

I JUST WAS HOPING AGAINST HOPE
THAT IT WOULD WORK.

WOW.

SO WHEN YOU KNEW ETHEL,
WAS IT ALREADY CLEAR

THAT NO ONE
IN THE FAMILY

WAS GOING TO TAKE CARE
OF MY FATHER ?

NO, IT WAS NOT.

SOMETIME DURING THAT PERIOD,
HER MOTHER TOOK THE BOYS,

BUT THE SOCIAL WORKER TOOK
THE BOYS AWAY FROM HER MOTHER

BECAUSE SHE WAS
SCREAMING AT THEM,

AND SHE WAS TELLING THEM--

YOU KNOW THESE
WERE CHILDREN WHO--

YOUNG AND MISSING
THEIR PARENTS,

AND THERE MUST HAVE
BEEN SOME MISBEHAVIOR

SHE COULDN'T COPE WITH,
AND SHE SCREAMED AT THEM,

"YOU'RE GONNA END UP
IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR

JUST LIKE YOUR PARENTS."

SO WHEN I KNEW HER,

THEY WERE ALREADY
IN A CHILDREN'S SHELTER.

AND THAT WAS
A PRETTY CHAOTIC THING.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY
EVER TALK ABOUT IT, BUT...

MY FATHER REMEMBERS THAT AS ONE
OF THE WORST TIMES OF HIS LIFE.

RIGHT, IT WAS ONE OF THE WORST
TIMES OF HIS MOTHER'S LIFE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
YOU KNOW, IF I REALLY THINK
HONESTLY ABOUT WHAT LED ME

TO START LOOKING AT THE FAMILY
MORE CLOSELY WAS FIRST

WHEN I REALIZED
HOW MANY SIBLINGS

THERE WERE OF ETHEL AND JULIUS',
AND THEN SAYING,

WELL, WHERE WERE
THESE PEOPLE

AND WHY DIDN'T ANYONE
TAKE IN MY DAD AND ROBBY ?

HELLO, MY NAME'S
IVY MEEROPOL.

I'M MICHAEL MEEROPOL'S
DAUGHTER.

( chuckle )

I'M GOOD,
HOW ARE YOU ?

SO, UM, I'VE ACTUALLY
BEEN TRYING TO TRACK DOWN

FAMILY MEMBERS
AND MEET PEOPLE

THAT NO ONE IN MY FAMILY'S
EVER, EVER SPOKEN TO.

WHAT DO YOU THINK
ABOUT ME TRYING TO TALK

TO SOME OF THESE
RELATIVES ?

I THINK THAT'S FINE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE
GONNA MAKE ANY FRIENDS.

RIGHT.

WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER
TALKING ON THE PHONE WITH ME

AND LETTING,
SO THAT I WOULD HAVE

THE STORIES
JUST FROM YOU

AND THAT I WOULDN'T
HAVE TO...

OH, YOU WOULDN'T EVEN
WANT YOUR VOICE INVOLVED ?

AND YOU DON'T WANT
TO TALK ABOUT THEM,

BECAUSE THEY'RE
TOO PAINFUL ?

RIGHT.

NO, I DON'T--

I HAVE TO BE HONEST,

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T
WANT TO TALK TO ME.

PEOPLE ARE, I MEAN,
THEY'RE AFRAID.

I MEAN, MAYBE I CAME
INTO THIS A LITTLE NAIVELY

THINKING WHAT,
50 YEARS LATER,

WHY CAN'T WE OVERCOME THIS
GREAT DIVIDE IN OUR FAMILY

AND TALK ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED ?

( Michael Meeropol )
UNCLE OSCAR,
AUNT ETHEL'S HUSBAND

WAS SCARED OUT OF HIS TREE WHEN
HIS BROTHER-IN-LAW WAS ARRESTED

AND THAT WAS WHY THEY
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING PUBLIC

LIKE TAKE
ROBBY AND ME IN

BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE
RUINED THEIR BUSINESS,

THEIR LOCAL BUSINESS.

THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE
LOST ALL THEIR CUSTOMERS,

AND AUNT ETHEL
NEVER FORGAVE HERSELF,

AND SHE THOUGHT IN FACT THAT
ROBBY AND I WERE ANGRY AT HER,

AND WE NEVER WERE ANGRY
AT HER FOR DOING IT AT ALL,

YOU KNOW,
BUT SHE THOUGHT THAT.

FOR WHAT NOT
TAKING YOU IN ?

FOR NOT TAKING US IN,
BUT WE UNDERSTOOD THAT TOTALLY.

WELL, I WAS CALLING
BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN TRYING

TO TRACK DOWN WHERE SOME OF
MY GRANDPARENTS THINGS MIGHT BE

'CAUSE I KNOW
THAT AUNT ETHEL

HAD GOTTEN SOME OF THEIR
THINGS AFTER THEY DIED.

UHH, WELL,
ETHEL'S SHOES,

I SAW PHOTOGRAPHS
AT HER APARTMENT,

OF HER SHOWING THAT
SHE HAD ETHEL'S SHOES.

WELL, IT'S NOT ABOUT,

IT'S NOT ABOUT
BENEFITING MYSELF,

IT'S ABOUT JUST FINDING
OUT MORE INFORMATION.

OH YEAH, OF COURSE,
I'VE CALLED EVERYONE.

I'VE CALLED EVERYONE
ON THE GREENGLASS SIDE

AND THE ROSENBERG SIDE.

EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY
SEEMS TO BE ASHAMED

OF WHO, YOU KNOW,
WHO WE ALL ARE.

WELL, I THINK THAT'S
REALLY, WHEN YOU SAID,

"WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU THAT
NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT ?"

YOU KNOW,
IT TELLS ME HOW BAD

IT MUST HAVE BEEN, REALLY.

IT'S-- I GUESS JUST
HARD TO ACCEPT, FOR ME.

This is my grandfather,
Julius Rosenberg,

who my brother's middle name
was named after.

And this is Julius and
Ethel Rosenberg together,

and my middle name
was named after Ethel.

This is the tv news

and we're interviewing
Jenny Meeropol here.

How old
are you, Jenny ?

Five and a half.

What are your
parents' names ?

Ellie and Robby.

I'm Ivy Meeropol, and I'm
interviewing Greg Meeropol.

How old are you, Greg ?

Seven and--
eight and a half.

Do you have any
sisters or brothers ?

Yes, I have
a sister, Ivy.

YOU KNOW, THIS WAS A FAMILY
THAT I WAS BROUGHT INTO,

AND THAT I ONLY
THINK OF YOU KNOW,

MOM AND DAD
AS MY MOM AND DAD.

THE WOMAN WHO
GAVE BIRTH TO ME

JUST DID THAT,
GAVE BIRTH TO ME,

AND I JUST FEEL THAT
THIS IS MY FAMILY

AND I WOULD DIE
FOR THEM,

AND EVEN THOUGH I NEVER
MET JULIUS AND ETHEL,

I STILL HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW,
THAT PASSION FOR THEM,

AND YOU KNOW,
AND WILL DEFEND THEM.

SUNNYVALE, CALIFORNIA.

THIS IS A LONG WAY FROM
THE LOWER EAST SIDE, HUH ?

THAT'S WHERE
HIS FAMILY'S FROM--

OUR FAMILY'S FROM,
I SHOULD SAY.

( Ivy Meeropol )
WE'RE GOING
TO MEET BARON ROBERTS.

HE IS JULIUS' BROTHER,
DAVID'S SON,

BUT THEY CHANGED
THEIR NAME TO ROBERTS.

THIS IS THE FIRST
RELATIVE OF MINE

THAT I'VE MET
ON THE ROSENBERG SIDE.

HI !

HOW ARE YOU DOING ?

I'M GOOD
HOW ARE YOU ?

GOOD.

I KNOW, "DON'T LOOK
AT THE CAMERA".

DON'T MIND MY FRIEND.

COME IN.

THIS IS SUE,
MY WIFE.

HI.

I'M IVY.

I'M OLIVIA.

OKAY, FOLKS, AND WE'RE
BACK TO THE SHOW.

WE'RE BACK.

SO, HOW DOES IT FEEL
TO MEET A NEW COUSIN ?

THAT'S ME.

WELL, I JUST DON'T
GET THAT FAMILY PART.

RIGHT, YOUR GRANDPA
ON YOUR DAD'S SIDE

WAS THE BROTHER
OF MY GRANDPA.

INTERESTING.

AND SO, MY DAD'S DAD
WAS NAMED JULIUS,

AND THEY
WERE BROTHERS.

AND YOU HEARD THE WHOLE STORY
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO JULIUS.

IT WAS A VERY
SAD STORY.

HE "BZZZ".

OHH, YEAH.

"BZZZ."

THAT MUST BE REALLY SAD,
TO GRANDPA.

IT WAS VERY SAD
FOR YOUR GRANDPA.

I THINK HE WAS SAD FOR THE REST
OF HIS LIFE BECAUSE OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN
CURIOUS ABOUT WHY

YOUR DAD CHANGED YOUR NAME
FROM ROSENBERG TO ROBERTS.

YEAH, I'D ASKED HIM
ABOUT THAT

AND WHILE HE DIDN'T
TALK TOO MUCH IN DETAIL

ABOUT ANY OF
THE BACKGROUND,

HE DID SAY THAT
AFTER THE EXECUTION,

HE WAS FEELING LIKE IT'S
JUST NOT THE RIGHT THING

TO HAVE THAT NAME RIGHT NOW,
AND HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT,

YOU KNOW, HIS FUTURE,

AND SO HE CHANGED IT
TO ROBERTS.

NOW, HOW MUCH OF THAT WAS ALSO
THE INFLUENCE OF MY MOTHER,

BECAUSE SHE WAS THE MORE
PARANOID ABOUT THINGS,

BUT AT THAT TIME
EVERYBODY WAS PARANOID.

WHAT WAS THE STORY THAT SHE
WOULD TELL ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER

ASKING SHE AND YOUR DAD
TO TAKE IN MY DAD AND ROBBY ?

SHE WOULD PUT ON
A SORT OF STOIC VENEER

AND TALK ABOUT HOW
SHE WENT UP TO SING SING

AT ETHEL'S REQUEST,

AND THAT ETHEL
HAD ASKED HER

TO ADOPT YOUR FATHER
AND YOUR UNCLE

AND SHE SAID, "NO."
THAT'S HOW SHE RELATED IT,

AND AS A KID, AGAIN,
I HEARD THIS A MILLION TIMES,

HOW SHE'D KEEP
REPEATING IT.

AND IT WAS SO CLEAR,
ESPECIALLY LOOKING BACK ON IT,

THIS WAS EATING
HER UP INSIDE.

YEAH.

BUT I DO FEEL
A SENSE OF,

SOMEWHAT SHAME FOR
MY MOTHER'S BEHAVIOR,

NOT ADOPTING YOUR
FATHER AND YOUR UNCLE.

THAT WAS
THE OTHER THING,

WHEN I STARTED
LOOKING INTO THIS:

IT WAS, NOBODY WENT
TO THEIR FUNERAL.

EXCEPT FOR
GRANDMA SOPHIE.

YOU'RE KIDDING ?

MY FATHER DIDN'T
GO TO THEIR FUNERAL ?

NO.

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE
I'M SITTING HERE

TALKING TO YOU ABOUT HOW THESE
PEOPLE SHOULD APOLOGIZE AND...

I'M SORRY.

I KNOW.

IT'S LIKE, I'M THE ONE
WHO SHOULD APOLOGIZE.

WHY YOU SHOULDN'T--

THERE'S NO REASON
YOU SHOULD APOLOGIZE.

WHO'S LEFT
TO APOLOGIZE ?

WELL, THAT'S TRUE.

IT'S TRUE.

I KNOW.

I WAS GONNA
APOLOGIZE.

SOME PEOPLE WON'T EVEN TALK
TO YOU, THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

YOU KNOW,
SO I'M SORRY.

IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

( music )

( cello playing )

IT'S THAT CORNER HOUSE
WITH THE AIR CONDITIONER,

I REMEMBER SEEING
THE AIR CONDITIONER

IT'S THE CORNER WITH
THE AIR CONDITIONER.

THERE IT IS.

BUILDING "G" THAT'S WHAT IT IS,
IT'S 11-E IN BUILDING "G".

GENERAL ELECTRIC.

IS THAT HOW YOU
REMEMBER IT ?

NO, THAT'S WHAT
MOM SAID.

MOM WOULD ALWAYS
CALL IT GENERAL ELECTRIC.

AND THAT'S HOW YOU
WOULD REMEMBER IT ?

NO, THAT'S HOW I'VE
REMEMBERED IT NOW.

THEN, I JUST, YOU KNOW,
THIS WAS THE BUILDING

YOU CAME IN THROUGH THE STAIRS
AND YOU WALKED IN HERE.

( male on intercom )
Hello.

HELLO, MR. LIN ?

THIS IS THE MEEROPOLS
WE'RE COMING UP TO 11-E.

Okay.

THANK YOU,
COULD YOU BUZZ US IN ?

( buzzer )

THANK YOU.

AND THE ELEVATOR IS
THE SAME DAMN ELEVATOR.

SLOW DOWN, DAD.

NO WAY.

I HAVE NO
SLOW IN ME.

YOU'RE REAL
EXCITED, DAD ?

( laughing )

YES, LUCKILY THIS
WILL BE EDITED.

LET'S BE DIGNIFIED.

DIGNIFIED.

ACTUALLY WHEN YOU
THINK ABOUT IT

THOSE FUCKING FBI AGENTS
RODE THIS SAME DAMN ELEVATOR.

THAT'S TRUE.

ON JUNE, WHATEVER
IT WAS, JULY 17th.

MAYBE MORE
THAN ONCE.

YEAH, TWICE.

HELLO, I'M IVY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, ROBERT.

HI, I'M MICHAEL,
HOW DO YOU DO ?

THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR LETTING US DO THIS.

MY NAME IS MICHAEL,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

( speaking Chinese )

I CAN'T PRONOUNCE WELL.

HOW DO YOU DO, THIS IS
MY BROTHER, ROBERT.

DO YOU KNOW
THE STORY ?

I DON'T KNOW,
YOUR PARENTS...

WE WERE VERY YOUNG...

OUR PARENTS LIVED
IN THIS APARTMENT

AND WE WERE VERY
YOUNG CHILDREN HERE.

AND THEY WERE ARRESTED
WHEN WE WERE VERY YOUNG,

AND SO WE THEN
LEFT THE APARTMENT.

DO YOU REMEMBER ?

I DO, BECAUSE
I WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD.

THIS WAS
THE LIVING ROOM.

THIS WAS THE LIVING ROOM
AND THE DINING ROOM

AND THE CONSOLE TABLE
WAS PROBABLY RIGHT THERE,

BUT I DON'T
REMEMBER THAT.

( Ivy Meeropol )
WANNA GO
IN THE KITCHEN ?

( Michael )
SURE.

THIS IS THE FAMOUS
PICTURE RIGHT ?

YES, THAT'S RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY,
THERE IS A FAMOUS PICTURE.

THAT'S PROBABLY
A NEW REFRIGERATOR.

BUT THE SINK IS
PROBABLY THE SAME.

THAT'S AMAZING.

YEAH, THAT'S THE SINK.

I BET THAT'S
THE SAME SINK.

THERE'S A RELATIVELY
FAMOUS PICTURE

WHERE YOUR GRANDMOTHER MADE
THAT VERY SUBSTANTIAL GESTURE

IN AN EFFORT TO FIGHT BACK
AGAINST THE PROPAGANDA.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SHE HAD TO SHOW HERSELF
AS A GOOD WIFE AND MOTHER
IN THE KITCHEN.

RIGHT, AND THAT WE ARE
JUST ORDINARY AMERICANS

AND WE DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT THIS STUFF

WHICH WAS A GREAT SHOW
OF LOYALTY WITH DAD IN JAIL.

THAT WAS VERY,
VERY CRUCIAL.

DIDN'T WORK
OF COURSE.

SHE WAS STANDING THERE IN A
HOUSE DRESS WITH A DISH TOWEL.

YEAH, YEAH.

DISH TOWEL.

( Robert Meeropol )
THAT'S RIGHT,
RIGHT AT THAT SPOT.

RIGHT ABSOLUTELY AT THAT SPOT,
REALLY SOMETHING.

I'M JUST IMPRESSED WITH
HOW HOT IT IS,

I MEAN, I JUST KEEP
THINKING ABOUT, BOY.

WHAT IT MUST HAVE
BEEN LIKE IN THE SUMMER.

THERE ARE TWO ROOMS.

I THOUGHT THERE
WAS ANOTHER ROOM.

THIS IS
THE CRAZIEST THING.

I WAS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE
THAT THERE WERE TWO ROOMS HERE.

THIS IS MY ROOM,
MY BED WAS RIGHT THERE.

SO YOU HAD
THE BEDROOM.

I HAD THE BEDROOM,
AND YOU MUST HAVE

MAYBE HAD A CRIB
IN HERE SOMEWHERE.

MMM-HMM.

AND THEY SLEPT
OUT IN THE...

IT'S UNBELIEVABLE,
KIDS THINK OF THEMSELVES

AS THE CENTER OF
THE DAMN UNIVERSE.

AND I DIDN'T-- I ASSUMED
THEY HAD ANOTHER BEDROOM,

AND ALL THEY HAD
WAS THE LIVING ROOM.

UNBELIEVABLE.

IT WAS REALLY FUN
LIVING IN HERE,

THE OUTSIDE STUFF,
IN THE PARK,

WALKING AROUND IN THE COURTYARD
AND BEING IN THIS APARTMENT.

ALL ASPECTS OF IT
WERE REALLY NICE.

SO YOU REMEMBER IT
AS A HAPPY TIME.

ABSOLUTELY,
IT WAS VERY HAPPY.

BUT I DID,
I MEAN, CERTAINLY--

I GOT A JOLT
WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT

THOSE FBI AGENTS
IN THAT ELEVATOR.

BECAUSE YOU-- WHERE
WERE YOU WHEN THEY CAME IN ?

I WAS RIGHT IN THE FRONT THERE
BY THE WINDOW, SITTING DOWN,

MAY HAVE BEEN
EVEN IN THE KITCHEN

BECAUSE THAT WAS
WHERE THE RADIO WAS,

LISTENING
TO THE RADIO.

LISTENING
TO "THE LONE RANGER"

AND THAT WAS THE THING WITH
THEY TURNED THE RADIO OFF,

I TURNED IT ON...

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW
MANY OF THEM THERE WERE,

MAYBE THERE WERE FOUR
OF THEM OR THREE OF THEM

AND THEY FILLED
THE PLACE UP,

BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE THE PLACE
WAS JUST MOBBED WITH PEOPLE.

YEAH, IN FACT,

I DID THINK THAT
THE FBI AGENTS

WHEN THEY WALKED IN
AT FIRST

WERE SOME OF DADDY'S FRIENDS
UNTIL THEY ARRESTED HIM.

GOD.

I ASKED MOM
"IS DADDY COMING HOME ?"

SHE SAID
"NOT TONIGHT."

I REMEMBER SAYING
TO THE FBI AGENT,

I LISTEN TO YOU ON THE RADIO,
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THEN THAT WAS IT HE WAS NEVER
IN THIS APARTMENT AGAIN ?

NEVER IN THIS APARTMENT
AGAIN, THAT'S RIGHT.

AFTER JULY 17th, 1950,
HE NEVER SAW THIS APARTMENT.

UNBELIEVABLE.

WOW.

THANK YOU FOR
DOING THIS, DEAR.

( male on speaker )
This is the story
of the atomic spies.

There probably has never
been an espionage operation

that so profoundly changed
the course of world politics.

Spies: Julius
and Ethel Rosenberg.

Code names:
Liberal and Ethel.

Provided Soviets with stolen
defensive military documents.

Suspicion: Julius Rosenberg
an anchored spy,

Ethel Rosenberg
as a supportive wife.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT
THE REASON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

THE ROSENBERG CASE TODAY,
50 YEARS LATER,

IS BECAUSE OF THE SECRET
OF THE ATOMIC BOMB.

WITHOUT THE SECRET
OF THE ATOMIC BOMB

WE WOULDN'T BE
TALKING ABOUT IT.

THAT'S THE CORE
OF THE CASE,

THAT'S WHY THERE
WERE EXECUTIONS.

( Ivy Meeropol )
THAT'S WHY THEY SAID
THEY WERE INNOCENT.

AND THAT'S WHY THEY SAID
THEY WERE INNOCENT

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO
THE THING THEY WERE KILLED FOR.

AND THAT'S THE KEY.

( crowd chanting )
FBI close down,
open up the files !

FBI close down, open up
the files !

FBI close down,
open up the files !

I'm not afraid.

It's the government
that holds back the files.

We filed the request
that said, let it all out.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'D DONE
HAD DEMONSTRATED

THAT THEY WERE FRAMED.

AND THAT'S NOT THE SAME
AS DEMONSTRATING

THAT SOMEONE'S INNOCENT.

ALL OF OUR RESEARCH
SHOWED WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

IT REALLY SHOWED THAT
JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG

DIDN'T STEAL THE SECRET
OF THE ATOMIC BOMB.

BUT IT DIDN'T SHOW WHAT IF
ANYTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

WHAT DID HAPPEN ?

IN 1995, A MAN
CALLED UP AND SAID

I JUST HEARD FROM
MY CONTACTS AT THE CIA

THAT IN A FEW MINUTES
THEY'RE GOING TO RELEASE

THE VENONA INFORMATION

AND I SAID,
"THANK YOU VERY MUCH,"

AND NEXT THING WE KNEW
THE PHONE RANG,

AND IT WAS SOME REPORTERS
AND THEY SAID

THIS HAS JUST
BEEN RELEASED

DO YOU WANT TO MAKE
A STATEMENT ?

WHAT DO YOU
THINK ABOUT IT ?

AND WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT
AND SAID WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO ?

VENONA WAS DECIPHERED
SOVIET DOCUMENTS

THAT HAD BEEN PICKED UP
IN THIS COUNTRY,

AND OVER
A PERIOD OF TIME

DECIPHERED BY
THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY.

( male reporter )
At CIA headquarters today,
the government revealed

top secret documents
tightly held for 50 years,

Soviet messages
intercepted by the U.S.

putting the FBI
on the Rosenberg's trail.

September 1944...

( female reporter )
Julius Rosenberg was code named
"Antenna" and later "Liberal".

He is described
as being so active

his Soviet handlers
worried about his health.

Ethel Rosenberg
is mentioned only once

as knowing about
her husband's work

and being well-developed
politically.

VENONA DIDN'T PROVE
A DAMN THING.

THIS IS A JOKE.

THEY TRIED TO ATTRIBUTE
TO ME A NAME

AND THEN BY
THE FOURTH MESSAGE

IT TURNS OUT THAT
"REL" AND "SIB"

HAS AN ARTIFICIAL LEG.

SO, I ALWAYS COMPLAIN
HERE I AM A CONVICTED SPY

AND THEY DON'T
HAVE ME IN THERE,

AND THEY HAVE A COUPLE
HUNDRED OTHER PEOPLE

WHO'VE NOT BEEN CONVICTED IN
THERE THAT THEY COULD IDENTIFY.

SO THERE ISN'T
ANY JUSTICE IN THIS.

( chuckling )

THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING
TO CLOSE THIS CASE DESPERATELY,

THEY WANT TO GET IT
OFF THEY'RE NECKS.

I'VE BEEN MAKING IT
MORE DIFFICULT.

THAT I FIGURE
IS MY JOB.

THERE'S ALWAYS
BEEN THE ELEMENT OF

WHEN ARE WE GONNA
KNOW EVERYTHING

FROM THE BEGINNING.

THERE'S SO MUCH
THAT'S UNKNOWN,

AND WHAT WILL
NEW INFORMATION BRING ?

SO, IF YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY
A LOT OF THE NEW INFORMATION

OVER THE LAST
10-15 YEARS OR SO,

HAS BEEN FILTERED
THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT

SO REMAINING SOMEWHAT SKEPTICAL
IS NOT A BAD THING.

THERE'S A GRAY AREA WHERE
A REASONABLE CASE CAN BE MADE

THAT JULIUS ROSENBERG WITH
ETHEL ROSENBERG'S APPROVAL,

ENGAGED IN MILITARY
INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE
DURING WORLD WAR II,

BUT A REASONABLE CASE
CAN ALSO BE MADE THAT

THE FACTS THAT
POINT TO THIS

ARE GOVERNMENT CREATED
DISINFORMATION

TO JUSTIFY
MY PARENTS' EXECUTION.

FIGURING THOSE
TWO THINGS OUT

IS VERY DIFFICULT.

UNTIL VENONA DOCUMENTS
THEMSELVES CAME OUT IN '95,

I NEVER THOUGHT
THERE WAS ANYTHING TO THEM

THAT WOULD,
YOU KNOW, HARM US.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD,
IF ANYTHING, HELP US.

BUT THEN WHEN
THEY CAME OUT IN 1995

IT WAS VERY CLEAR
THAT IF YOUR GRANDFATHER

WAS "LIBERAL"
THEN HE DID STUFF.

WELL, I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU GUYS
DIDN'T JUST WRITE THE BOOK

YOU ALSO WERE REALLY THE
CHAMPIONS OF ROSENBERG INNOCENCE

FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

HOW DID IT FEEL WHEN YOU
STARTED TO QUESTION THAT...

( Walter Schneir )
I FELT PRETTY BAD.

PRETTY DAMN BAD.

I DID GO THROUGH A PERIOD OF
SORT OF FEELING ANGRY WITH THEM.

IT SEEMS STUPID,
SORT OF FEELING...

"HOW COULD YOU HAVE
DONE THIS TO ME ?"

YOU KNOW...

( Walter Schneir )
AND YOU WERE ALWAYS
BROUGHT UP TO BELIEVE

THEY WERE
COMPLETELY INNOCENT.

HAVE YOU CHANGED
YOUR MIND ?

I DON'T KNOW,
IT DEPENDS ON

WHAT WEEK YOU'RE
ASKING ME SOMETIMES.

IT REALLY IS TRUE.

SOMETIMES I THINK

THEY MUST HAVE
BEEN DOING SOMETHING,

THEN OTHER TIMES I THINK
AND I READ THEIR LETTERS

AND I THINK HOW COULD
THEY SAY TO MY FATHER...

YEAH, HIS QUESTION ALSO.

( door closing )

A LITTLE PRIVACY.

HERE THEY ARE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
THEY DON'T GIVE US
MUCH ROOM IN HERE.

LOOK AT THAT.

LOOK AT THAT.

OH MY GOD, DAD.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU
GOTTA TAKE CARE OF THESE.

REALLY ROUGH
WITH THEM.

COMES FROM HAVING LIVED
WITH IT FOR SO MANY YEARS.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE,
LOOK AT THIS ONE.

THIS IS FROM ME.

OHH WOW, DAD.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO FATHER,
AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO MOTHER.

THE BIG DAYS ARE HERE,
SEE THE PRETTY CHRISTMAS TREE.

HAPPY NEW YEAR,
YOUR SON, FROM MICHAEL,

THEN I ERASED "FROM."

THERE'S 1950,
HERE'S '51,

HERE'S '52,
AND HERE'S '52...

AND HERE'S '53,
THE FIRST HALF OF '53.

AND HERE'S
THE END OF '53.

"YOUR DADDY WAS WITH ME
IN THE LAST MOMENTOUS HOURS

"SENDS HIS HEART AND ALL
THE LOVE THAT IS IN IT

"FOR HIS DEAREST BOYS.

"ALWAYS REMEMBER
THAT WE WERE INNOCENT

"AND COULD NOT WRONG
OUR CONSCIENCE.

"WE PRESS YOU CLOSE AND
KISS YOU WITH ALL OUR STRENGTH,

LOVINGLY, DADDY JULIE
AND MOMMY ETHEL."

( Ivy Meeropol )
WHAT DO YOU THINK
ABOUT THIS NEW EVIDENCE

THAT SHOWS THAT MAYBE JULIUS
WAS PASSING SECRETS ?

IT'S VERY,
IT'S DIFFICULT,

'CAUSE I GREW UP
MY WHOLE LIFE

THINKING THAT ETHEL AND JULIUS
WERE TOTALLY INNOCENT

THE WHOLE TIME AND NOW
THAT NEW EVIDENCE HAS COME OUT

AND PERHAPS THAT
JULIUS WAS INVOLVED,

IT'S DIFFICULT,
AT THE SAME TIME

I ALWAYS WONDER TO MYSELF
IF HE WAS INNOCENT.

I MEAN, IF HE WAS GUILTY
AND HE DID DO SOMETHING,

WHY DIDN'T HE SAY,
"LOOK IT WAS ME

AND NOT MY WIFE,
SPARE HER LIFE."

AND THAT'S WHAT'S
BOTHERING ME

AND I KNOW THAT'S GOTTA BE
WHAT'S BOTHERING DAD RIGHT NOW.

I TALKED TO HIM
ABOUT IT TOO...

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO I MEAN,
IF IT IS TRUE...

OBVIOUSLY, THEY ARE INNOCENT
OF WHAT THEY ARE CHARGED WITH...

RIGHT, RIGHT
AND YOU KNOW,

YOU COULD SAY THAT
THAT'S WHAT WAS GOING ON,

AND THEY TRUSTED THAT
HISTORY WOULD ABSOLVE THEM.

ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

I MEAN,
SUPPOSE VENONA'S TRUE.

THINK OF
YOUR GRANDMOTHER.

SHE WOULD HAVE HAD TO REPUDIATE
HER MARRIAGE, BASICALLY.

TESTIFY AGAINST
HER OWN HUSBAND.

I MEAN, SHE WOULD HAVE THEN
HAD TO LIVE HER ENTIRE LIFE

BRINGING UP ROBBY AND ME

HAVING TESTIFIED
AGAINST OUR OWN FATHER ?

SHE WOULD KNOW THAT SOME DAY
AS WE GOT TO BE ADULTS,

WE WOULD
HATE HER FOR IT.

( male )
THEY KNEW.

WHEN I SAY THEY,

I MEAN, THE HANDFUL OF PEOPLE
WHO KNEW ABOUT VENONA,

INCLUDING LIKE
J. EDGAR HOOVER,

THEY KNEW THAT ETHEL
HAD NO CODE NAME AS A SPY.

WHICH REALLY INDICATES THAT
SHE WAS NOT AN AGENT AT ALL,

BECAUSE EVERYBODY
HAD CODE NAMES.

RUTH WAS IMMEDIATELY
GIVEN A CODE NAME.

RUTH GREENGLASS,
DAVID GREENGLASS,

BUT ETHEL
DIDN'T HAVE ONE.

NOW, KNOWING THAT,

THEY WENT AHEAD
AND THEY ARRESTED ETHEL,

BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT
THAT HER ARREST
WOULD PERSUADE JULIUS.

AND THEN THEY PLAYED
A GAME OF CHICKEN.

THEY PUT A GUN
TO HER HEAD AND THEY SAY

TALK OR WE'LL KILL HER.

IF VENONA'S TRUE THEN
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT

STANDS COMPLETELY CONDEMNED
BEFORE THE BAR OF HISTORY

OF DOING EXACTLY
WHAT THEY TALK ABOUT

WHEN THEY TALK
ABOUT TERRORISTS:

TAKING A HOSTAGE AND THEN
MURDERING THE HOSTAGE

WHEN THE OTHER SIDE DOESN'T
COME ACROSS WITH THE GOODIES.

MIRIAM AND I ARE BOTH CONVINCED
THAT ETHEL WAS MURDERED.

YOU CAN'T PUT IT
ANY OTHER WAY.

SO WHEN YOU TRY
TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT:

WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS ?
WHY DIDN'T THEY CONFESS ?

WHICH ARE WONDERFUL MYSTERIES
THAT EVERYBODY ASKS,

YOU HAVE TO THINK WHAT
WAS IN ETHEL'S MIND KNOWING

THAT SO MUCH OF WHAT WAS BEING
SAID AT THE TRIAL WAS FAKE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
I'VE TRIED TO READ BETWEEN
THE LINES OF THEIR LETTERS

TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT THEY REALLY MEANT.

I MEAN, WHAT DID
THEY DIE FOR ?

I GREW UP FEELING
A CERTAIN WAY

AND NOW WHAT AM I
GONNA TELL MY CHILDREN

ABOUT WHO THEIR
GREAT GRAND PARENTS WERE ?

I MEAN WHAT DO THEY--

WHAT'S THE STORY ?

WHAT'S THE STORY ?
WHAT TO TELL THEM ?

IT'S REALLY A DILEMMA.

IT'S REALLY
A DILEMMA.

ALL YOU CAN DO IS TO OUTLINE
TO THEM WHAT HAPPENED

AND TELL THEM
WHAT YOUR FEELING IS.

LET THEM DRAW
THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS,

COME WHAT MAY,
YOU KNOW.

I DON'T THINK
MY FATHER,

IT'S BECAUSE
HE WAS SO WRAPPED UP
IN THEIR INNOCENCE HIMSELF,

WHEN I WAS A KID...

THAT AFFECTS HIM
ALL THE STUFF COMING OUT.

HE WANTS
TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

THE TRUTH WILL
MAKE YOU FREE...

MAYBE.

HE DOES WANT
TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

YEAH, I KNOW,
I KNOW.

I DO TOO.

THE CRIME FOR WHICH
JULIUS WAS CONVICTED,

HE COULD NOT
HAVE COMMITTED.

HE WAS GUILTY OF
SOMETHING ELSE UNDER THE LAW,

BUT NOT THAT KIND OF A THING,
AND NOT THAT KIND OF A FATE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO WHAT WAS
HE GUILTY OF ?

HE WAS A MEMBER OF A GROUP,
HE WAS, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT,

OF YOUNG BRIGHT MEN
WHO WERE INTO SCIENCE

WHO WERE OF
OUR PERSUASION,

WHO DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD
TO COLLECT INFORMATION

AND GET IT
TO THE SOVIET UNION.

I REMEMBER
ONE OF THE PROJECTS.

WHAT WAS IT ?

IT HAD TO DO WITH...

AN AIRPLANE PROPELLER,
AS IT SPINS,

IT HAD TO DO WITH BEING ABLE
TO CONTROL FROM THE COCKPIT,

THE PITCH OF BLADES.

AND I KNOW FOR A FACT

THAT JULIUS WAS TRYING
TO GET THAT TO THEM,

BECAUSE HE TALKED
TO ME ABOUT IT.

AND I DIDN'T DISCOURAGE HIM
WITH THE IDEA.

I DISCOURAGED HIM
WHEN HE DISCUSSED

HOW HE WAS
GOING ABOUT IT.

BUT THE IDEA,

I WOULD HAVE GLADLY
TAKEN THAT PACKAGE MYSELF,

THAT INFORMATION,
OH YEAH.

AND THAT'S HARD FOR PEOPLE
TO UNDERSTAND TODAY.

SO IT DOESN'T
SURPRISE YOU AT ALL

AND YOU THINK
JULIUS WAS...

NOT ONLY NOT SURPRISE ME
I WOULD'VE DONE IT !

THAT'S WHAT I'M
TRYING TO TELL YOU.

( piano music )

( elevator bell )

HARRY !

HARRY, DO YOU
KNOW WHO I AM ?

YOU'RE THE GRANDDAUGHTER
OF THE ROSENBERGS.

THAT'S RIGHT.

I'M MICHAEL'S DAUGHTER.

YOU'RE MICHAEL'S DAUGHTER
NOT ROBERT'S DAUGHTER.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

BY THE WAY,
PROVE IT.

WHERE'S YOUR
DRIVER'S LICENSE ?

YOU WANT TO SEE IT ?

HERE IT IS.

IVY MEEROPOL.

YEAH, ROSENBERG.

ARE YOU SATISFIED
THAT I'M WHO I SAY I AM ?

NOW, YEAH.

( chuckle )

DO PEOPLE HERE KNOW

THAT YOU WERE FRIENDS
WITH MY GRANDPARENTS ?

NO.

THEY DON'T.

OH, THEY'RE NOT ?

UNFORTUNATELY.

SO, I'VE HEARD THAT
YOU FEEL THAT THEY--

THE POSITION THAT
THEY TOOK SAVED YOU.

MANNY.

ANYTHING ELSE
YOU WANNA KNOW ?

YOUR GRANDPARENTS
WERE WILLING TO DIE.

THEY COULD'VE
SAVED THEIR LIVES.

THAT'S A LOT TO,
YOU KNOW...

BUT I THINK IT'S
YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD,

THAT THEY LEFT
TWO CHILDREN.

YEAH, YEAH.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THE REAL THING HERE
BECAME ONE OF...

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN
THE DEATH SENTENCE

"ARE YOU OUT OF
YOUR GODDAMN MINDS ?

FOR WHAT,
FOR WHAT ?"

AND SUDDENLY WE KNEW THAT
IF WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING,

NOBODY WOULD.

AND REALLY THAT'S
HOW IT BEGAN.

WE SET UP WITH
A NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE

THE NATIONAL COMMITTEE
TO SECURE JUSTICE

IN THE ROSENBERG CASE,

AND THEN DAVID STARTED
COVERING THE COUNTRY.

HE WENT FROM CITY
TO CITY TO CITY.

THE FBI SAID HE PUT
IN 10,000 MILES

BECAUSE THEY FOLLOWED HIM
ALL THE WAY.

AND HE'D START COMMITTEES
WITH TWO OR THREE PEOPLE

AND WE ENDED UP
WITH COMMITTEES

IN EVERY MAJOR CITY
IN THE UNITED STATES.

"Dear Mr. President,
what single action

"could more effectively
demonstrate this nation's

"fealty to religious
and democratic ideals

"than the granting of clemency
to my husband and myself.

"Such an act would also
be a fitting reply

"to a small boy's
desperate appeal.

"A hope for the release
of his own dear parents.

"Take counsel with the mother
of your only son.

"Her heart, which understands
my grief so well

"and my longing to see
my sons grown to manhood

"like her own.

"With loving husband
at my side.

"Respectfully yours,
Mrs. Ethel Rosenberg,

"Prison number 110-501,

women's wing,
condemned cell."

UNTIL THE LAST DAY
THEY REALLY THOUGHT

THAT THEY WERE
GONNA MAKE IT.

MY AUNT ETHEL, SHE SAID
MY FATHER WOULD SAY

TO HER IN JAIL, "SIS,
I THINK WE'LL JUST MAKE IT."

AND WHAT HE MEANT
WAS THAT THEIR LIVES

WOULD BE SPARED SORT OF
AT THE LAST MINUTE.

AND YOU KNOW
THEY WERE RIGHT.

THEY CAME VERY CLOSE.

IT TOOK THE MOST
EXTRAORDINARY MACHINATIONS
IN THE SUPREME COURT,

I MEAN, THE STUFF THAT
WENT ON IN THE SUPREME COURT

THAT LAST WEEK
WAS JUST OUTRAGEOUS.

I MEAN, ACTUALLY
ALLOWING A FIX

THAT THE CHIEF JUSTICE
OF THE SUPREME COURT--

EVEN BEFORE DOUGLAS
GRANTS THE STAY,

HE'S THE ONE WHO SAYS,
"I WILL CALL THE COURT BACK

INTO SPECIAL SESSION TO OVERTURN
THE STAY IF HE GRANTS IT."

I MEAN, IT'S JUST
AN UNBELIEVABLE LINE,

BECAUSE THAT MEANS HE'S NOT EVEN
GONNA WAIT TO SEE THE REASONS,

TO SEE WHETHER
THE REASONING IS GOOD.

HE'S JUST GONNA
OVERTURN IT, PERIOD !

( male )
The following is part
of a statement

just issued by the President
of the United States.

By immeasurably increasing
the chances of atomic war,

The Rosenbergs may have
condemned to death

tens of millions of innocent
people all over the world.

I will not intervene
in this matter.

( Ivy Meeropol )
I MEAN, AS SOMEONE
WHO REFUSED TO DO

WHAT THEY WANTED, ALSO,
I MEAN, CAN YOU...

IT ISN'T THAT THEY REFUSED,
THEY COULDN'T.

THEY JUST COULDN'T.

IS THAT HOW
YOU FELT, TOO ?

YEAH, IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE,
JUST NOT POSSIBLE,

YOU'RE WASTING YOUR BREATH
I CAN'T THINK THAT WAY.

BECAUSE THAT CONTINUES
TO PLAGUE THEM,

EVEN 50 YEARS
AFTER THEIR DEATH...

RIGHT.

... AND OUR FAMILY,
IT'S A CONSTANT QUESTION.

WHY DIDN'T THEY
SAVE THEMSELVES ?

THEY COULDN'T.

YOU KNOW, WHY DID THEY
NOT CARE ABOUT MY FATHER ?

WHY DID THEY NOT
CARE ABOUT MY UNCLE ?

THEY COULDN'T,
THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE
SOMETHING THEY WERE NOT,

AND THAT'S
NOT POSSIBLE.

( male )
AND TO LOOK FOR ONLY
POLITICAL EXPLANATIONS

IS BULLSHIT.

PURELY BULLSHIT.

IF YOU WANNA ASK ME WHY

ETHEL AND JULIUS
STOOD UP LIKE THEY DID ?

'CAUSE THEY KNEW
THAT IF THEY DIDN'T,

THEY COULD NOT EVEN
FACE EACH OTHER.

THEY WOULD HAVE NO RESPECT
FOR EACH OTHER.

THE RESISTANCE WAS
AN ENORMOUS BONDING THING,

IN SOME WAYS MORE
THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

IT'S FAR MORE IMPORTANT
THAN LUST OR SEX,

THEY HAD BECOME NOT ONLY
EACH OTHER'S BEST FRIENDS,

BUT LOYAL COMRADES IN
THE DEEPEST SENSE OF THE WORD.

AND THEY COULDN'T
BETRAY THAT.

EITHER ONE OF THEM
WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUSHED

BY THE OTHER'S YIELDING.

THEY LOVED EACH OTHER,
BUT IN A VERY DEEP WAY.

( male reporter )
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg
will die in the electric chair

at Sing Sing prison tonight.

Warden Dennoe said earlier

that the executions would begin
at eight p.m. daylight time.

The execution time was set
after the Supreme Court

and the President
refused to intervene.

We are told that the President
and Attorney General Brownell

are standing by
in the event the Rosenbergs

want to make
a clean breast of it.

EVERY OTHER VISIT WE JUST
ASSUMED THERE WAS A NEXT TIME.

THIS ONE, THERE WAS NO
NECESSARILY A NEXT TIME,

SO I STARTED WAILING,

"ONE MORE DAY TO LIVE,
ONE MORE DAY TO LIVE."

WHAT I WAS SAYING TO THEM IS,
"HOW CAN YOU BE SO NORMAL

IN SAYING GOODBYE WHEN YOU ONLY
HAVE ONE MORE DAY TO LIVE ?"

AND THEY HUGGED ME
AND SAID EVERYTHING

WOULD BE ALRIGHT
AND OUT I WENT.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
DISCOVERING THESE LETTERS.

( male )
YEAH, WELL, THEY WERE
LITTLE SCRAPS OF PAPER

ON WHICH ETHEL HAD SCRAWLED
LITTLE MESSAGES, MINUTES,

BEFORE HER DEATH,

AND I REMEMBER THERE WAS ONE OF
THEM IN PARTICULAR AND IT SAID:

"I CRY FOR MYSELF
AS I LIE DEAD

"FOR SHALL
THEY KNOW ALL

THAT BURNED MY BRAIN
AND BREAST."

( Ivy Meeropol )
WHEN DID YOUR HUSBAND
FIRST START AT SING SING ?

IN 1950, HE WAS APPOINTED
BY THE GOVERNOR

AND THE YEAR AFTER THAT
ETHEL AND JULIUS

WERE BROUGHT INTO
THE DEATH HOUSE.

AND FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS
HE SAW THEM EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

AND THEN OF COURSE THAT DAY,
THAT FATEFUL DAY.

HE WAS AT THE CORNER
GASOLINE STATION GETTING GAS

AND HE HEARS THE NEWS
ON THE CAR RADIO,

THAT THE ROSENBERGS ARE
GONNA BE EXECUTED THAT NIGHT.

AND HE WAS IN SHOCK.

AND HE CALLED ME FROM
THE GAS STATION HE SAID,

"I'M NOT COMING HOME,

"I'M GOING STRAIGHT UP
TO SING SING.

I HAVE TO BE
WITH THEM."

AND THEN OF COURSE
HE HAD THE BITTER CHOICE

OF HAVING TO CHOOSE
WHICH ONE GOES FIRST.

AND SO AT THAT POINT
HE FELT THAT JULIUS

WAS MORE NERVOUS
THAN ETHEL.

AND SO HE THOUGHT MAYBE HE
SHOULD BE THE ONE TO GO FIRST.

AND HE HAD TO WALK
WITH HIM TO THE CHAIR.

THEY STRAP HIM IN,

HE STANDS IN FRONT OF HIM,
LIKE I AM BEFORE YOU,

AND HAS TO STAND THERE
AND WITNESS

THAT ELECTROCUTION.

AND THEN,
HE HAD TO WALK BACK

AND GO TO ETHEL,

AND HE SAID TO ETHEL...

"JULIUS IS GONE,
AND YOU'RE LEFT,

"AND YOU'RE LEAVING TWO CHILDREN
WITHOUT ANY PARENTS.

"YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE
TO SAVE YOURSELF.

"DO YOU HAVE ANY NAME, DO YOU
HAVE ANY THING YOU COULD--

"ANY NAME, EVEN IF
IT'S A FALSE NAME,

SOMETHING THAT
WILL SAVE YOU."

AND SHE SAID,
"NO, I HAVE NO NAME,

"I'M INNOCENT

AND I'M READY."

AND SO, THEY PUT HER
IN THE CHAIR,

AND I THINK SHE WAS JUST
TOO SMALL AND PETITE

FOR THE SIZE
OF THE CHAIR

AND THE ELECTRODE AND
IT DIDN'T FIT HER PROPERLY,

AND THEY
GAVE HER A SHOCK.

AND THE EXAMINER
CHECKED HER

AND HER HEART
WAS STILL BEATING

SO THEY HAD
TO DO IT AGAIN.

( chatter )

( male shouting )
We rollin' yet ?

Come on !

Well, the official party arrived
at the death house at 8:01

and they were all
seated by 8:02,

at about that time they
brought Julius in first

and he appeared very calm,
almost defiant.

There was no expression
on their faces.

They sat in the chair without
the assistance of the guards.

She turned to the matron who's
been with her all this time

and shook her hand
then she impulsively

leaned over
and kissed her.

In Rosenberg's case

it was all over
in a very few minutes,

She died a lot harder.

Believing she was dead
the attendants

had taken off the ghastly
strappings, electrodes,

and black belts,
and so forth,

and these had to be
readjusted again,

and she was given
more electricity

which started again,

and kind of a ghastly
plume of smoke

that rose from her head

and went up against
the skylight overhead.

( male )
She was then
examined again.

She was pronounced dead
at 8:16,

that's four and
a half minutes after

she was placed
in the chair.

Then her body
was moved...

( Michael Meeropol )
I WALKED IN THE HOUSE

AND THERE WERE ALL
THESE ADULTS THERE

AND I SAID
"WHAT HAPPENED ?"

AND NOBODY WOULD
ANSWER ME DIRECTLY,

AND SO I KNEW THAT
THAT WAS IT,
THEY WERE DEAD.

I WAS REALLY INCAPABLE
OF REACTING REALLY,

SO I BASICALLY
JUST SAT DOWN

AND VERY DRY-EYED,
JUST LOOKED AT MY HANDS.

AND MY FRIEND
PIPED UP,

"YOU'RE TAKING IT
JUST LIKE A MAN, MIKE."

AND THE WOMAN WHO WE WERE
STAYING WITH HUGGED ME

AND SAID, "YOU'LL
STAY HERE WITH US,"

AND I THOUGHT,
"WELL, YES, I WILL".

( Ivy Meeropol )
WAS THERE ANYONE
THAT YOU FELT

THAT WAS THERE
TO COMFORT YOU ?

NOT IN THOSE MONTHS.

THOSE MONTHS WERE
NOT VERY GOOD MONTHS

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

I WASN'T ADJUSTING VERY WELL
TO THAT KIND OF LIFE.

UP UNTIL JUNE 1953 THERE WAS
ALWAYS SOME KIND OF HOPE,

BUT AFTER THAT
IT WAS, YOU KNOW...

SO EVERYTHING, ALL THE BAD STUFF
THAT COULD HAVE COME OUT

THAT WAS SORT OF HELD
IN ABEYANCE BY THE HOPE

STARTED TO COME OUT,
THE RECRIMINATIONS.

I WAS, YOU KNOW...

I DIDN'T DO WELL IN SCHOOL,
I WAS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
MY FATHER REMEMBERS YOU
DRIVING UP WITH A STATION WAGON

WITH A BED
RIGGED IN THE BACK

AND THAT YOU WERE COMING
TO MAYBE ADOPT THEM ?

ACTUALLY, WE WERE
GOING TO THE WEST COAST

AND I REGRETTED NOT
PUTTING THEM IN THE CAR

AND TAKING THEM
WITH US.

ON THE OTHER HAND WITH THE FBI
FOLLOWING US ALL THE WAY

AGAIN IT WAS HOW MUCH
DO YOU EXPOSE THEM TO ?

THERE WAS SURVEILLANCE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO, YOU WERE
CONCERNED IN A WAY...

WE EXPECTED TO GET
ARRESTED SOON TOO.

WE EXPECTED THAT
OUR TURN WAS NEXT.

YOU DON'T BRING
THE BOYS INTO THAT.

YOU DON'T.

THEY CAN'T GO
THROUGH IT TWICE,

THEY NEEDED EXACTLY
WHAT TOOK PLACE,

THEY NEEDED
THE MEEROPOLS.

My husband and I
have discussed the thing

and we had known
about the children.

Although, we did not
know the parents,

We knew Mr. Bloch.

( Michael Meeropol )
MANNY BLOCH WAS
OUR LEGAL GUARDIAN

AFTER OUR PARENTS
WERE KILLED.

WHAT HAPPENED WAS A WOMAN WHO
WAS WORKING IN MANNY'S OFFICE

WAS VERY CLOSE FRIENDS
WITH ANNE AND ABEL

AND SHE BASICALLY
TOLD MANNY,

"THESE PEOPLE
WOULD BE PERFECT."

... and they
adjusted wonderful.

I love Anne,
and I love Abel.

I asked the children
whether they were satisfied,

and they said,
"I love them.

I love Anne,
and I love Abel."

ANNE AND ABEL WERE
LEFTIST INTELLECTUALS.

DADDY WAS A NEW YORK CITY
PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER,

WHO WAS A WRITER,

AND WHEN WE MET HIM
HE WAS A FULL-TIME WRITER,

AND SHE WAS A FULL-TIME
YOU KNOW, SORT OF DRAMA PERSON.

SO THEY BOTH HAD
A LOT OF TIME FOR US.

THEY GAVE US TREMENDOUS,
TREMENDOUS ATTENTION.

( Ivy Meeropol )
SO, DO YOU REMEMBER TAKING
AN IMMEDIATE LIKING TO THEM ?

OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, DADDY WAS JUST
THE MOST HYSTERICAL PERSON

YOU'D EVER WANT
TO MEET IN YOUR LIFE.

( young Michael )
And now folks, we will have
Abel say us a few words:

( Abel )
"Ong-wong-way, kaza-lama-zay,
lama-zee lama-zay,

tishy-patty-wama-zay
awky-pawky ong-wong-way."

( young Michael )
Thank you, Abel,
that was a very nice speech.

and now we give you,
Michael Meeropol.

THE FAMILY LORE WAS
AFTER WE WERE ADOPTED

AND DISAPPEARED
FROM PUBLIC VIEW,

WAS THAT WE HAD BEEN
TAKEN BY THE COMMUNISTS.

THAT WAS
THE FAMILY LORE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
AND AT THAT POINT
YOU WERE ALREADY FEELING

VERY ATTACHED
TO THE MEEROPOLS.

OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY,
THOSE TAPES, THOSE TAPES

THOSE WERE THE THINGS THAT
WERE HAPPENING IN JANUARY

AND I LOVED MY SCHOOL,
EVERYTHING WAS GREAT...

AND THEN, OH GOD.

CERTAIN PEOPLE
IN THE WELFARE INDUSTRY,

BASICALLY CONSPIRED TO TRY TO
GET US AWAY FROM ANNE AND ABEL.

AND THE GUY
PUTS US IN A HOME

AND ROBBY AND I
ARE BACK IN A HOME.

OH, IT WAS THE MOST
HORRIBLE TWO DAYS.

IT WAS AS BAD AS
ANY OTHER TIME.

( male interviewer )
Mrs. Meeropol, we want to know
what's going to happen now ?

Are you going to get
the children back ?

Do you want them back ?

Well, we do
want them back.

We had hoped that
they could stay with us

even during this
interval period,

because we feel that
the children need to be with us,

and we want them
and we love them

as though they
were our own...

AND THEN THE WHOLE COMMITTEE
STRUCTURE RALLIES.

( Ivy Meeropol )
ROSENBERG COMMITTEE ?

YEAH, AND THEY GO BEFORE
A GUY NAMED McNALLY,

THE SUPREME COURT JUDGE,

AND HERE'S WHAT'S
KIND OF INTERESTING.

HE'S A CATHOLIC,
AND A JEWISH JUDGE

HAS ORDERED US
TO GO TO THE HOME.

AND McNALLY
WAS VERY SMART.

HE PAROLED US IN OUR
GRANDMOTHER'S CUSTODY.

HE HAS THIS GREAT STATEMENT,
"MRS. ROSENBERG,

"I AM COUNTING ON YOU
TO TAKE THESE CHILDREN,

"AND CARE FOR
THESE CHILDREN,

"TEACH THEM OUT OF
THE OLD TESTAMENT,

"TEACH THEM,
AS YOU HAVE,

"THE TENETS OF YOUR ANCIENT
AND HONORABLE RELIGION,

"NEVER LET ANYONE
TALK TO THESE CHILDREN

"IN DEROGATION
AGAINST THIS COUNTRY,

"IT IS THEIR COUNTRY TOO,

THAT IS A SAD AND
DISTRESSING SITUATION..."

I MEAN, WHAT
A WONDERFUL GUY.

THAT WAS A GREAT--

I THINK THAT WAS
THE TURNING POINT IN OUR LIVES,

BECAUSE IT WAS
THE FIRST VICTORY

OUR FAMILY HAD
EVER HAD IN THE COURTS.

AND I CAN'T REALLY EXPLAIN
WHY I NEVER BOTHERED

TO FIND OUT WHERE
THE GRAVE WAS,

AND GO TO THE GRAVE,
BUT I THINK PART OF IT WAS JUST,

WHY PUT MYSELF
THROUGH THAT ?

( male )
IT'S IN THIS PLOT.

IT IS IN THIS
BIG PLOT.

I THINK WE SHOULD
GO FURTHER IN.

OH, SHE DIDN'T
GIVE ME A ROW.

NAH, SHE'S MAKING IT
DIFFICULT.

WE GOTTA LIKE, LOOK DOWN
ALL THESE ROWS, HUH ?

SHIT.

I FEEL LIKE
I'LL JUST SEE IT.

I THINK I SEE IT
OVER THERE.

THIS IS IT.

I FOUND IT...

SEE, IT'S SAD THAT...

NO...

I WAS JUST GONNA
SAY IT'S SAD

THAT THEIRS DOESN'T SAY
"BELOVED HUSBAND/FATHER,"

YOU KNOW, LIKE THESE PEOPLE
RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

( Ivy Meeropol )
IT SEEMS LIKE BECAUSE
OF THE POSITION THEY TOOK

WE ALL GET TO LIVE
A LIFE WHERE WE'RE PROUD.

YEAH, WHICH IS INTERESTING
BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY

THIS IS SELF-DELUSION,

I MEAN, WHY WOULD YOU
BE PROUD OF TRAITORS ?

BUT I DON'T
ACCEPT THAT.

SORT OF A MACABRE,
BIZARRE SPECULATION

IS WHAT WOULD ROBBY
AND MY LIFE HAVE BEEN LIKE

IF JULIUS HAD SPENT
10 YEARS IN JAIL,

CONFESSED, NAMED
A WHOLE BUNCH OF NAMES,

BEEN A WITNESS SOMEWHERE,

ETHEL HAD NEVER
GONE TO JAIL,

WE HAD BEEN BROUGHT UP
WITH NEW NAMES,

BUT REALLY
HIDDEN THIS TIME,

SO THAT WE COULD
IF WE HAD WANTED TO,

NEVER TELL YOU
AND GREGORY,

BUT CERTAINLY THE KIND OF LIFE
THAT WE WOULD HAVE LED

IF YOUR GRANDFATHER HAD BEEN
ANOTHER DAVID GREENGLASS

AND YOUR GRANDMOTHER HAD BEEN
ANOTHER RUTH GREENGLASS,

I MEAN,
THAT'S A LIFE THAT I--

I HAVE TO SAY I'M HAPPY
I DIDN'T LEAD THAT LIFE.

( Ivy Meeropol )
IT'S REALLY ABOUT
BRINGING THEM BACK HOME,

THEY WERE
MY DAD'S PARENTS,

AND THEY WERE
MY GRANDPARENTS,

SO IT'S RECLAIMING
THIS STORY FOR OUR FAMILY.

( chatter )

Captions Copyright 2004
HOME BOX OFFICE, INC.

Captioned by
HBO COMMUNICATIONS CENTER