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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,880 Yesterday morning, in an office building, 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,520 a fire broke out in a company's server room and killed an employee. 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,720 In less than 24 hours, the Prosecutor's Office dismissed the case. 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,160 DISMISSED An investigation by Gabriel Vânătoru 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,400 24 hours? 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,280 The fire was just put out, and you already closed the investigation? 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,400 For the fire investigation alone this file should have been reviewed for a week. 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,000 Plus the autopsy. That also takes a few more days. 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,240 So, in the morning, the fire broke out, 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,440 and by noon, you already have the file at the Prosecutor's Office? Seriously? 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,440 And there's something else. 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,000 The press release given by the company where the incident took place, 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,320 came out 2 hours before the Prosecutor's Office dismissal. 14 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,120 And with all this, both have the same result. 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,760 Almost 30 pages, of which more than half are procedural papers. 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,960 But the firemen's report has only one page. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Only one lousy page. 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,080 It doesn't even explain what rules did the poor man break. 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,960 They took over this explanation from the company, 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,840 copy-pasted and finished the file. 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,400 But if you look at the company's press release, this part is almost identical. 22 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:19,720 Unreal! 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,120 Thank you for agreeing to talk. 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,640 Can you tell me a little about the events 25 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,360 - ...that led to the incident on May 23rd? - Yes, of course. 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,640 That morning, one of the servers had a problem. 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,160 More precisely, the fans didn't work for more than an hour, 28 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,120 which led to the overheating of that server. 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,520 Above all, a short circuit took place, 30 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,720 which led to a fire breaking out in the entire server room. 31 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,920 And what is Eremia's connection to this incident? 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,600 As I was telling you, a series of unfortunate events led to this event. 33 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:03,560 And our employee, Eremia Ţofan, was in the server room when the fire broke out there. 34 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,160 Correct. This is also written in the prosecutor's report 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,920 as well as in your press release. 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,640 My question is, what was Eremia doing there? 37 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,760 Because he was working in another department. 38 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:15,920 - Yes, that's right. - Not in the IT department. 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,000 He was working in the testing department. 40 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,280 Because of a non-compliance with internal rules. 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,200 That's why he was there. 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,240 And what was he doing there? 43 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,600 I don't know what his motivation was. 44 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,600 All I can confirm is that he shouldn't have been in that room 45 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,680 and that the internal rules weren't followed. 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,360 And why didn't he come out? 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,696 Because when a fire breaks out in the server room, 48 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,680 the doors automatically close. 49 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,640 And the sprinkler system should also activate automatically, 50 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,360 only that on that day there was a delay and this delay was unfortunately fatal. 51 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:52,680 But... 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,880 he shouldn't have been in that room. 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,480 The people who have access to that room are also instructed how to get out of it 54 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,400 in case of such extreme events. 55 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,280 I understand. 56 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,160 What I find interesting is that this conclusion, 57 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,240 that it was exclusively his fault, 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,600 was taken over immediately, and identically, by the Prosecutor's Office. 59 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,360 Right. 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,520 Yes. 61 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,760 Because these were the facts. 62 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,400 And this is the reality. 63 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,600 Well, in two hours, it seemed to me a bit... 64 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,400 Well, if you now want to insinuate 65 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,200 that we would have influenced in any way 66 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,760 the investigation of the Prosecutor's Office 67 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,440 know that you are wrong. 68 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,960 We are not the kind of company that intervenes in the justice process. 69 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:40,640 And yes, 70 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,920 the two investigations have the same conclusion because 71 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,880 this is the reality. 72 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,576 We are talking about a collective trauma, after all, 73 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,200 whether we are talking about his family or about us 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,920 all his colleagues from Futura AI. 75 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,520 Eremia was the best boy we could have ever wanted. 76 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,120 He would run from school as the hours ended. 77 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,920 He would run home to help us with work. 78 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,320 He didn't want to leave us alone with all the work. 79 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,560 He worked next to us until the sun went down. 80 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,040 And then he would go to school. 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,680 Was it hard for you when he left for the city? 82 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,760 Of course it was hard, but I think it was even harder for him. 83 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,520 Why? 84 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,880 Well, Eremia was a bit of a loner. 85 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,080 He was a good boy, but he couldn't make too many friends. 86 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,040 I think when he left for the city, for college, it was very hard for him. 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,520 Yes. The very few friends he had... 88 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,040 he had lost contact with them. 89 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,960 And there, in Bucharest, 90 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,720 with all those people around, 91 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,040 my Eremia couldn't find his place. 92 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,320 Did he tell you anything about this? 93 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,760 No, he was keeping these things for himself. 94 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,440 Poor thing, he didn't want to burden us with his sorrows. 95 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,240 But you should know that we understood what was happening. 96 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,760 Do you think this loneliness of his led to the accident? 97 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,200 God forbid! 98 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,040 Eremia was such a good man, and he was afraid of God. 99 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,800 And after the accident, 100 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,440 did anyone in the press contact you to ask anything about this? 101 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,560 Well, who would look for us? 102 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:38,080 You were the first one who insisted on coming here, to ask us about our son. 103 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,080 That day, when they put him in the news, 104 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,240 they didn't even say his name as if he was a homeless person. 105 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,200 And from the police, from the Prosecutor's Office? 106 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,280 Well, from the police we know that he was in the fire. 107 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,840 And since then, no one has called us. 108 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,520 And do you plan to do something 109 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,360 to hold these people accountable? 110 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,160 What can we do? 111 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,040 Can't you see we are two grieving 112 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:08,920 and broken old people 113 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,360 cause our only son died? 114 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,040 Do I have the strength to go to Bucharest from door to door 115 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,880 to yell at those bastards? 116 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,960 And from the company where he worked did anyone contact you? 117 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,480 Yes, they called the next day. 118 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,560 They said they were going to investigate, to see what happened, 119 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,880 and that they were going to give us his salary for this month. 120 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,560 But until now, we haven't received anything. 121 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,640 The case of Eremia Ţofan, the employee who died in the fire 122 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,560 from the headquarters of Futura AI, deserves an investigation. 123 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,320 As far as I understood, he was a calm, quiet man 124 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,800 who respected the rules all his life, 125 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,800 and who wouldn't have gotten into a conflict 126 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,480 with other people or the authorities. 127 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,880 Therefore, the company's conclusion, 128 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,960 that he would have intentionally violated the internal rules, 129 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,400 and that's why he ended up in the fire zone, 130 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,160 is slightly uncharacteristic of his personality. 131 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,536 In addition to that, the Prosecutor's Office's investigation 132 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,640 is rather threadbare, 133 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,160 because you don't close the file 134 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,400 and stop the criminal investigation after only 24 hours. 135 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,880 Now, we have a victim of a fire, 136 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,440 about which the prosecution says it was an accident. 137 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,760 I find that hard to believe. 138 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,760 The Prosecutor's Office took the conclusions 139 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,520 and the company's internal investigation, 140 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,760 without digging deeper, and hurried to close the case. 141 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,920 I believe that what happened there 142 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,360 has nothing to do with the investigation from the file 143 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,120 or with the press statements of the company. 144 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,040 We're calling Eremia's manager, 145 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,480 who hasn't answered us so far, neither by e-mail, nor by messages, nor by anything. 146 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,600 Let's try again. 147 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,880 So... 148 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,520 the manager doesn't want to talk. 149 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,000 - Yes, hello! - Hello, Mr. Marcel Stanciu? 150 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,400 It's me, hello! 151 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,440 I'm Gabriel Vânătoru, independent journalist. 152 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,880 I'd like to ask you a few questions about the incident that took place at Futura AI. 153 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,840 I understand that you worked exactly on the day when the fire happened. 154 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,320 Yes, that's right, but I can't talk about this. Have a good day! Bye-bye! 155 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,080 I understand. 156 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:47,560 Futura AI is an important client for us. 157 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,000 We're just about to integrate into the insurance policy 158 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,440 a new data center that they're building at the moment. 159 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,360 So, the compensation process was based 160 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,720 on an extremely important business relationship with this client. 161 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,080 I'm sure, but even so, didn't you have to carry out your own investigation? 162 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,000 I assure you that we respected all the internal rules, 163 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,840 as well as those stipulated and imposed by the law in force. 164 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,280 So, those from Futura AI provided you with all the information? 165 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Or did you question them? How does it work? 166 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,160 My colleagues received absolutely all the necessary information 167 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,320 from the security department of Futura AI. 168 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,640 They concluded that we can move forward with this compensation process. 169 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,640 Yes, but... so fast? There was also a casualty. 170 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,480 Isn't that strange? 171 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,760 It's true, there were certain... 172 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,440 certain suspicions regarding the presence of the employee in the server area. 173 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,680 But, as I mentioned, 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,160 my colleagues received all the necessary information. 175 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,400 It seems to me that you based your investigation 176 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:54,440 strictly on the information received from Futura AI. 177 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,440 Or, it would seem normal to me 178 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,960 to carry out an investigation yourselves. 179 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,440 No, we didn't draw the conclusions strictly based 180 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,640 on the information received from the client. 181 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,000 They went through an internal verification process. 182 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,760 As for the expertise, yes, there were certain administrative delays 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,880 and decisions that hampered the process. 184 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:18,200 Can you elaborate a bit on the problems that hampered the process? 185 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,960 Of course. The server center is vital for our client, Futura AI. 186 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,600 Therefore, starting a process of renovating the burned space 187 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:34,040 was necessary, vital, immediately after the completion of the legal investigation. 188 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,640 In addition, our client wanted to minimize the negative impact 189 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,200 that this kind of tragic event has on the morale of the employees. 190 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,440 A quick renovation process only helped them navigate 191 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,520 through this trauma more easily. 192 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,760 So, Futura AI started the renovation process immediately after the incident, 193 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,680 using the morale of the employees as an excuse, 194 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,280 and that's why you didn't have access to that room 195 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:01,960 to carry out your own investigation. 196 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,960 - Is that what you're saying? - I think I was very clear from the start. 197 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,040 The entire verification process was an internal one. A thorough one. 198 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,600 It was done by a team of colleagues who accumulated over 30 years of experience 199 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,760 in the field of insurance fraud. 200 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,720 They came to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with that accident. 201 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,520 It's true, it was a tragic one and it had an innocent victim. 202 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,720 We stand by our client and their employees, 203 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,960 to help them navigate through this trauma. 204 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,760 We were three high school friends, passionate about programming since little. 205 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,360 We remained friends in college and even after that, 206 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,640 when we got hired at the first jobs in Bucharest. 207 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,960 We would often meet for a drink and talk about the future of the world, 208 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,640 about how techy we will become. 209 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,680 And one day, also over a beer, Radu came up with the crazy idea 210 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,640 for all of us to resign, move into an apartment 211 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,600 and start coding an AI. 212 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,360 What did you think of this idea? 213 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,480 The idea that we could do something revolutionary 214 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,480 convinced us to drop everything and take the plunge. 215 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,960 In a month we were already moved into the appartment, 216 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,240 the so-called headquarters and we were brainstorming. 217 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,000 And who came up with the idea of content moderation? 218 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,320 Radu came up with the idea. 219 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,640 Petre and I were insisting to make a Jarvis, like in Iron Man. 220 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,480 But one day, Radu showed us a report 221 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,960 about the awful videos that get on Facebook 222 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,760 because there is no time to be moderated. 223 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,440 And the videos of some journalists, for example, 224 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,480 are taken down by propaganda bots. 225 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,920 It's a desolate situation, but it was an opportunity for us. 226 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,280 And from the idea to the prototype, how long...? 227 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,120 We started as soon as we agreed. 228 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,120 We worked day and night, we were sleeping next to the office. 229 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,800 We would wake up, start coding, go to sleep, wake up, 230 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,280 and start it all over again. 231 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,840 And in a year and a half, we already had the first beta version. 232 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,680 And what happened next? 233 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,840 Well, after all these successes, they found more investors 234 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:03,760 and released some new updates for their product 235 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,760 which reduced the moderation times even more. 236 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,720 And sooner than two years, they were listed at the New York Stock Exchange. 237 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,520 It was the second Romanian company after UiPath that managed this performance. 238 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,520 And how could they be listed if they didn't have a solid gross revenue? 239 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,600 Sometimes, on Wall Street, the hype alone 240 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,280 and the prospect of big future incomes 241 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,440 is enough to throw you into a stratosphere. 242 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,320 Plus, they had an ace up their sleeve. 243 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,040 Twitter. 244 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,640 - Twitter? - Yes, yes, yes. 245 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,560 All of this was happening after the events of January 6th, 2021, 246 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,360 when Trump had managed to lead a live insurrection directly from their platform, 247 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,400 and they needed a way to get away with it. 248 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,160 They had kicked Trump out off the platform, but it wasn't enough. 249 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,760 And then they signed a collaboration contract with Futura AI. 250 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,200 I suppose that this was their turning point. 251 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:01,960 Yes, yes, yes. You can imagine. 252 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,216 They were going to be implemented directly in the platform. 253 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,360 The tests were looking great. 254 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,880 The investors were very happy. 255 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,520 And from that moment on, how did the company evolve? 256 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:14,400 The company evolved very well. 257 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,560 Unfortunately, our friendship was eroding little by little. 258 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,560 Radu was obsessed with the stock market. 259 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,920 He was only interested in the financial part and Petre followed him suit. 260 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,360 And how did you feel? 261 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,320 Abandoned. 262 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,240 I know it sounds naive, 263 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:36,696 but I really got into this adventure believing 264 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,640 that we were going to change the Internet, 265 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,880 which was taking a worse to worse turn. 266 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,800 I really thought that the three of us 267 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,040 would be those friends who were going to change this. 268 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,360 Unfortunately, I was the remaining one who believed this. 269 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,120 And what did you decide? 270 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,760 Well, for the moment I said to hold on a little longer. 271 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,920 To go on with the listing and the project with Twitter. 272 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,400 I thought that, 273 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,920 I don't know, the waters would calm down and we would return to our ethos 274 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,200 that convinced us to start this. 275 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,720 But after the listing, 276 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,360 Radu already wanted to sign with a second big client. 277 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,800 His was dreaming only to grow and increase the stock market share. 278 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,960 And the board that was established after the listing 279 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,840 was pushing for the same agenda. 280 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,840 The question that torments us all... 281 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,120 What was Eremia doing in the server room? 282 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,680 According to my attributes and my role within the company, 283 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,040 I don't think I can answer this question. 284 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,600 I don't know what were the motivations and thoughts 285 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,600 that pushed Eremia to enter the server room. 286 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,680 Ok, I understand. Maybe I asked the wrong question. 287 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,000 How did Eremia physically get into the server room? 288 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,080 I can't answer this question. 289 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,680 We were also surprised by this incident. 290 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,840 I don't understand why. Aren't you the security department? 291 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,000 In order to enter the building, someone had to come and let me in. 292 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,520 In order to enter a company, someone had to come and let me in. 293 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,280 I understand that each employee has an entry card 294 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,880 that allows them to enter different areas of the building. 295 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,520 Plus, all the security cameras. 296 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:13,880 Despite all this, 297 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,480 it seems that no one knows how Eremia ended up in the middle of a fire. 298 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,200 Yes, we have all these systems and information, 299 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,480 but things are a bit more complicated than that. 300 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,120 What's complicated? He ended up in an area where he had no access. 301 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,520 This means that he used a card that he received or stole. 302 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,280 Whose card was it? 303 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,720 I can't neither confirm or infirm this statement 304 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400 because it concerns the internal security 305 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,320 and confidentiality processes of our company. 306 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,440 What's interesting 307 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,480 is the fact that both investigations omitted 308 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,080 mentioning the surveillance cameras. 309 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,920 It's a bit suspicious. It doesn't say anything about this. 310 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,280 If I had investigated this, 311 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,040 it would have been one of the first things I would have done. 312 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,640 Let's look at the surveillance cameras, that's why we put them there. 313 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,000 That's how we can find out how he got in. 314 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,920 Regarding Futura AI 315 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:31,160 and the investigation you recently did at their headquarters. 316 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,320 With the fire, yes. 317 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,840 I'm interested to know if you have any information, 318 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,880 or if you received from the company footage from the surveillance cameras. 319 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,240 I think it's quite important. 320 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,520 From what I've seen, you omitted mentioning this in the investigation file. 321 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,000 He sent me to you. 322 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,040 Then who's actually in charge? 323 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:09,200 I've told you... HE sent me to you. 324 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,080 I understand. 325 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,040 Well, I'll call him again, then. 326 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:16,680 But don't tell him that... 327 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,280 or he won't answer anymore. 328 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,200 Thank you and excuse me. 329 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,760 Jesus. 330 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:33,240 I don't think Eremia walked into that server room by mistake. 331 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,680 And the fact that the company representatives 332 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,720 do not want to tell us how he got there and why, 333 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,400 and with what card, even though they know it, 334 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,640 well, it seems a bit suspicious. Obviously. 335 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,280 I don't have any evidence yet and I haven't found anyone to corroborate 336 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,760 the fact that it could be a cover-up, but we're only getting started. 337 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,360 I don't even know how much sense it makes to talk to the company's employees. 338 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,320 That is if they'll still let me do it. 339 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Because I have the impression that the communication department 340 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,360 is serving me on a conveyor belt 341 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,160 people trained to tell me the same official story. 342 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,480 Hello, Mr. Popa! 343 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,720 - You waited for me in the hallway? - I figured you had to go home. 344 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,240 So, you worked on the report 345 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,920 that is at the basis of the prosecutor's file, correct? 346 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,120 Yes, it's correct. 347 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,240 Following your request, we took out all the files 348 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,040 related to the company Futura AI, with the headquarters in Bucharest. 349 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,080 And we were going to respond by email within the legal term. 350 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,480 Why don't we talk now? 351 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,840 Besides, the case was already dismissed. 352 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,320 That's what I want to discuss. 353 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,440 I think the public has the right to know why it was dismissed so quickly. 354 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:50,760 If you agree... At the camera... Your name and your role in the investigation. 355 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,560 On May 23rd, there was a fire at an office building on Splaiul Independenţei. 356 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,040 Fire that resulted in one victim. 357 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,880 After my colleagues extinguished the last sparks of the fire, 358 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,080 I went to the scene of the event 359 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,200 to investigate the causes and the way in which the events 360 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:10,960 related to the fire occurred. 361 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,880 Can you elaborate on how the fire took place? 362 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,920 There were two independent events. 363 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:21,320 The first was a failure of some fans on some servers, 364 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,960 which generated excessive heat to the point of ignition. 365 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,720 The second was a short circuit that generated a flame 366 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,960 right in the area where the aforementioned technical malfunction occurred. 367 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:37,480 So, two technical failures, one after the other, so random? 368 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,400 From my experience, the random nature of these types of events cannot be explained. 369 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,360 And how do you explain that the sprinkler system 370 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,840 started one minute later, and the room was already on fire? 371 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,600 Yes, the sensor had a delay in its triggering. 372 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,120 It was recording the smoke, but it was not triggering the water system. 373 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,640 I repeat, if the system had worked in normal parameters, 374 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,640 there would have been no fire and we would not have talked about it. 375 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,000 But what was the chance that this system wouldn't work either? 376 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,480 Extremely small. 377 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,240 Almost zero. 378 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,840 That's why we don't have such events every day. They're extremely rare. 379 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,800 Or do you expect us to calculate them to see when the next one occurs? 380 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000 So, we can't blame the company for this fire? 381 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,120 They followed all the safety rules, 382 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,320 they had all the documents, all the approvals in order. 383 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,000 If we are to blame someone, I don't know, maybe... 384 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,600 the entrepreneur who executed that part of the circuit. 385 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,600 And in connection with the victim who died in the fire? 386 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,960 Mister. 387 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,240 I only know what happened. 388 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,800 That's how it is written in my report. 389 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,760 It's not my job to find out what was that employee doing there or why he was there. 390 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,440 Maybe it was cold and he wanted to take a nap, 391 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,640 or he wanted to steal the company's secrets. 392 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,960 I don't know. These are pure speculations that won't help us. 393 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,280 What is important to mention is that that employee was not allowed to be there. 394 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,520 So, he put himself in danger. 395 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,920 I think I answered all the legitimate questions. 396 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,880 If you need more information, 397 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,520 please contact the Public Relations Department. 398 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,800 I understand. 399 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,800 - During working hours, if possible. - Good. 400 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,680 - Thank you very much, Mr. Popa. - Yes, um... 401 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:22,960 With respect. 402 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,400 I'm still trying to find out 403 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,920 how did Eremia enter the server room, 404 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,240 because he didn't have an access card and... 405 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,320 You keep on calling. 406 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,400 You've been calling my colleagues constantly. 407 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,440 You've been calling me as well. It's not my job. 408 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,480 I find it incredible that no one knows whose card it was. 409 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,480 It's not my job. Ask the Security. 410 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:50,800 I'm in charge of the servers. 411 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,800 I take care of how many cables go into that server and that's it. 412 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,520 It's not my business to know whose card it was. 413 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,760 Talk to my colleague from Security or talk again to my colleague from PR. 414 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,136 - Why do you keep on calling me? - Got it. 415 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,200 I need to know that the server is working. 416 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,336 - Why do you ask me whose card it was? - That's exactly why I was asking you. 417 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,360 It's the server that you take care of, 418 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,160 so you probably care who goes in and who goes out. 419 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,560 But... I... This is a security issue. 420 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,160 The firefighters came, the police came, the prosecutor came. 421 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,440 Why do you keep asking me this shit? 422 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,000 Because no one answers to me. No one answers to me. 423 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,080 - Hello? Good day! - Good day! 424 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,440 Mr. Marian Stoica? 425 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,880 Yes, who is this? 426 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,560 Hello, I'm Gabriel Vânătoru, an independent journalist. 427 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,640 I'm investigating Futura AI and I understood that you worked there. 428 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:39,920 Yes, I did. 429 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,880 I don't know if you heard about Eremia. 430 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:46,840 I heard about it. Yes. 431 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,400 Is the investigation related to his death? 432 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,320 Yes, I mean, I'd like for us, if you also agree, 433 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,320 to talk a little about Eremia. 434 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,120 Not necessarily about what happened recently 435 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,040 because we have nothing to do with it. 436 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,800 But I'd like to know more about him as a person and... 437 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,280 I understood that you were a high school classmate with Eremia Ţofan. 438 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,800 Yes, that's right. I was. 439 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,160 I don't know if you heard about the recent incident. 440 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,680 It would help me a lot if you told me a little about him as a person. 441 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,520 I'm trying to understand what happened. 442 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,560 He wasn't the most sociable. 443 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,480 He was an introvert. 444 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,440 He never hung out with the popular kids, so to speak. 445 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,720 He cared about his learning. 446 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,280 If someone asked him for anything, he was very helpful. 447 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,440 He even helped me a few times. 448 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,080 He gave me his notebooks, he let me copy the homework. 449 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,240 What do you think was Eremia's experience at the university? 450 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,800 I don't know if he liked Bucharest very much, 451 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,680 in the sense that he didn't adapt. 452 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,400 He was, as I said, more introverted. 453 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,120 And anyway, from a certain age, 454 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,600 it gets more difficult to make friends, relationships. 455 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,920 When we were in high school, we were taking him with us. 456 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,360 "Let's have a beer", we used to take him to a party. 457 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,520 But in Bucharest, I don't really think he got along too well with his colleagues. 458 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,640 Did you stay in touch after college? Did you ever talk? 459 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,840 He called me about 2 years ago. 460 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,560 I didn't recognize him at first. He had something in his voice... 461 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,280 He was extremely optimistic. 462 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,840 That surprised me. 463 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,560 He kept insisting on going with him to some event 464 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,200 on Sunday, at a Baptist church. 465 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,760 Either he had converted, or he was just attending services. 466 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,360 But what I liked, and what made me happy for him, 467 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,520 was that it seemed as he had found his place. 468 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,920 After all this time, he could be somewhere... himself. 469 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,360 Practically, the AI, even the one Futura was developing, 470 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,840 needs content to be able to make decisions. 471 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,120 It needs tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of entries, 472 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,400 with all kinds of content, so it knows the moment something nasty comes up. 473 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,080 And here we intervened, the content testing team. 474 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,440 Basically, we were manually taking 475 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,000 these tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of inputs 476 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,440 and were flagging what was wrong with them so the AI knew if it's good or bad. 477 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,840 Can you tell me what kind of content we're talking about? 478 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,120 Bad. 479 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,880 The worst misfortunes you can think of: Rapes, murders, beatings. 480 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,280 Practically, we had to do this 8 hours a day. 481 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,040 We took them one by one, we watched them, and we made a report 482 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,840 with which the AI was fed. 483 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,720 It sounds like an extremely hard job, no matter how strong you are. 484 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,440 It is, yes. Especially when you have to do it from morning to night. 485 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,040 And the company? 486 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,720 Did they support you in any way? 487 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,560 - Did they take any action to help you? - Yes, they did. 488 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,920 They took a lot of actions. 489 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,120 The most important one is that they offered performance bonuses. 490 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,240 Meaning the more videos you were watching, the more money you were making. 491 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,600 Wow! I see. Is that all? 492 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,200 They also did a corporate thing at some point. 493 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,680 They announced loud and proud 494 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,800 that they would offer us mental health, since we are doing a sensitive job. 495 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,800 I wonder how were people coping. 496 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,240 They weren't. 497 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,800 It took about two weeks until the first mass resignations began to appear, 498 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,360 after which the department turned into a kind of railway station. 499 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,520 People came, left, and never stayed too long. 500 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,480 We were like on the Amazon packing line. 501 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,400 The next step would have been to relieve ourselves in a bottle. 502 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,840 The atmosphere was so terrible. 503 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,960 I couldn't resist and started to comment and get into conflicts. 504 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:32,560 With whom? 505 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,840 With the team leader. 506 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,480 He told me one day that I went to the bathroom three times before lunchtime 507 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,360 and I couldn't take it anymore and I yelled at him like crazy. 508 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,640 And how did your colleagues react? 509 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,920 No one was surprised because everyone was doing their best to handle it. 510 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,880 Some were crying in the bathroom, 511 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,360 others were smoking five cigarettes during break time. 512 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,160 And how long did you resist? 513 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,400 Very little. 514 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,920 I started to argue with the team leader every day 515 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:07,680 and in a short time the HR took me aside and explained to me that 516 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,240 my attitude leads to the decline of the team's morale. 517 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,320 Damn bastards! 518 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,080 So, people sat there for hours and wrote reports about rapes, 519 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,360 and they, you see, cared about the morale of the team. 520 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,160 My negative attitude obviously continued 521 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,760 and in a short time I was called to the last discussion 522 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,680 where I was offered two salaries and 523 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,160 a voucher for six therapy sessions 524 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,720 because apparently I underwent a difficult period of stress. 525 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,480 And the people in the company were aware of... 526 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,600 - Yes. - They did the hiring. 527 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,480 Everyone knew. Everyone. 528 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,400 HR, management, upper management, founders, everyone. 529 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,160 Did you interact with Eremia in any way? 530 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:56,400 Very little. 531 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,160 He was very busy and quite introverted. 532 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,320 I also saw other things that struck me a little. 533 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,080 He had a spark. 534 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,480 I don't know if he was naive or very optimistic, 535 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,040 but he really believed in the company's philosophy. 536 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,840 And he somehow hoped that this AI that Futura is developing, 537 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:21,360 will, at some point, be able to stop this lousy content from escaping the Internet. 538 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,160 We have it. 539 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,520 OK, so someone from the company who wanted to remain anonymous, of course, 540 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,600 and who found out about my investigation gave me 541 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,000 some internal materials used by those from Futura AI. 542 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,440 They told me it is a presentation for the new employees, 543 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,000 to see what company they are joining and a series of emails. 544 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,560 This is the presentation. 545 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,360 It sounds extremely praiseworthy. 546 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,360 It's talking about the company's activity. 547 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,200 I quote: "Like other organizations like UNICEF or the Red Cross", 548 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,840 the work we do to develop our AI project 549 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,640 is crucial for humanity. 550 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,080 You will have the opportunity to contribute 551 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,376 to the creation of a new Internet 552 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,640 "in which the harmful content will never surface again." 553 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,360 We are safe. 554 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,120 We can sleep in peace. 555 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,520 They told me there were emails related to the company's promises to the employees 556 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040 about the mental health program. 557 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,720 So... in 2019 the first email excitedly announced. 558 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,440 I quote: "We know that the work you do has a strong emotional impact 559 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,600 and this may require therapeutic help. 560 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,640 We implemented a subscription to mental health services 561 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,760 for the entire team." 562 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,720 Yes, very nice. 563 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,000 So, only six months later 564 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,720 the company comes back with an e-mail full of apologies 565 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,880 in which it informs its employees that for financial reasons 566 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,240 the mental health program is being discontinued. 567 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,320 But it promises to them 568 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,200 that they will make an internal program in which they will 569 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,560 continue to support their employees. 570 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,840 In other words, if you didn't catch those complementary therapy hours... 571 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:22,960 our thoughts and prayers. 572 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,120 I liked him the first time he came to our church. 573 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,560 He didn't talk much, but 574 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,360 you could tell that he was a good and gentle man. 575 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,520 I felt this all the time when I was with him. 576 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,880 And even if he was so shy, he worked up the courage to invite you out? 577 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,040 No, he would never have had the guts to do such a thing. 578 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,840 He would barely lift his gaze when I would get close to him. 579 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,560 I am the open and talkative one. The entire church knows me. 580 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,360 And I liked him so much 581 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840 that I didn't want to wait anymore. 582 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,840 And one Sunday morning I went to him and I told him 583 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,040 to take me out for an ice cream after the service. 584 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,240 Did you tell him? Or did you ask? 585 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,440 I went to him directly. 586 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,480 I was thinking that if go straight to him 587 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,320 he won't refuse me, 588 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:30,640 and that's how it was. 589 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,720 He gave me a quick "Yes" 590 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,840 just to get out of the situation. 591 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,720 But after the service he really took me out for an ice cream. 592 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,840 I understand you were together for a while. 593 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,600 Can you say that it was a serious relationship? 594 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,240 Yes, it was a serious relationship for both of us. 595 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,000 Even though it wasn't official yet. 596 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,320 We were thinking about getting married. 597 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,800 People could say that we are old-fashioned or too conservative 598 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,280 but marriage is very important to us. 599 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,120 Especially since we met here in the church community. 600 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,680 This made us stronger in our faith. 601 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,160 I think that his plans were also directly influenced by his work. 602 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,680 Did he tell you how things were at work? 603 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,240 He opened up to me a lot. 604 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,400 But he had a blockage related to his work, to what was happening there. 605 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,440 Do you have any idea where this blockage came from? 606 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,960 I think he doubted the morality of it. 607 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,560 I think that 608 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160 he was ashamed that if I found out what was happening there 609 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,760 I would change my opinion about him and I wouldn't want to be with him anymore. 610 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,200 So, you didn't talk much about his work. 611 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,000 We talked very little. 612 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,680 One day I told him that I would love him no matter what. 613 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,960 And that he should trust me and that maybe it would be better for him to quit. 614 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,320 And how did he react? 615 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,480 I know for sure that Eremia didn't go there just for the money. 616 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,720 He was such a good and kind man, who believed that... 617 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,880 that his work would make the world a better place. 618 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,040 If you allow me, I would like to take things one at a time. 619 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,280 First: The work in that department is extremely stressful. 620 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,880 As a company, being perfectly aware 621 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,960 of the stressful and sensitive nature of this job, 622 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,000 we tried to create a friendly environment 623 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,680 in which the employees feel supported, 624 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,360 especially at times when it risked becoming 625 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,040 a little too much for some of them. 626 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,520 And then, how do you explain the waves of resignations? 627 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,240 There are employees who only lasted one day. 628 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,520 Of course, there are some limitations of the help we can offer. 629 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,600 Beyond this point, employees also have to keep up with the mission. 630 00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:58,520 Yes, but it seems that your help 631 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,160 is almost non-existent. 632 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,480 I mean, sure, you provide some therapy hours 633 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,520 which are far from being enough 634 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,960 for the large number of employees you have. 635 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,960 Yes, as you for sure know, 636 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,240 each company has a budget with which they operate. 637 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,080 This is how things work for the companies listed on the stock exchange. 638 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,360 For that segment, 639 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,680 that was the budget we could afford at the time. 640 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,480 The following year, that budget was increased by 50%. 641 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:29,680 Did you know this? 642 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,840 - No, I didn't. Congratulations! - Thank you! 643 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,640 And yet, it wasn't enough. 644 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,600 It seems like you let the employees 645 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200 go through this traumatic process by themselves. 646 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,120 In addition, you set performance standards 647 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,280 Productivity. 648 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,800 Or that. Which are very hard to reach. 649 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,920 I still believe that you didn't understand the nature of our activities. 650 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,840 Well, that's why I'm here and we're talking. 651 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,680 - I'll try to explain it to you. - Please! 652 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:03,920 At the moment, the Internet is infested with harmful content. 653 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,040 Every day, every child sees, on average, 654 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,440 more than 20 minutes of videos that should be taken down 655 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,160 according to the upload rules of any platform. 656 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,640 Those videos stay on the Internet on average for 4 hours. 657 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,080 In these 4 hours, they are copied and reuploaded on several websites. 658 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,960 What our company manages to do 659 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,560 is extremely beneficial in all spheres of the Internet. 660 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,080 We managed to reduce the analysis time 661 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:40,160 of a video from 5 minutes to only a few seconds. 662 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,960 Do you know what this means? 663 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,520 I'll tell you. 664 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,320 It means that in the years to come, 665 00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,680 our AI will reach the performance of analyzing 666 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,120 hundreds of thousands of videos and posts in a fraction of a second 667 00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:56,040 and filter all this content. 668 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,360 However, 669 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,760 for all of this, we need people 670 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,760 to manually go through 671 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,920 huge libraries of content. 672 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,400 As you may already realize, this is a titanic work. 673 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,120 Work that had to be supported by the imposition of productivity quotas, 674 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,880 which is absolutely normal in any company. 675 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,120 On the other hand, we are extremely grateful to our employees 676 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,720 for all the support they gave us and for their efforts 677 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,520 to create these successes. 678 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,000 Moreover, there are people in this company 679 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,240 who are perfectly aware of the fruits of their labor 680 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,480 and who are even proud that they managed to put their shoulder 681 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,400 to the creation of a better world, after all. 682 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,000 Are you saying you have employees who are excited 683 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,200 to watch rape and crime videos? 684 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,976 I think you are misinterpreting my words. 685 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,360 No, I want to understand. 686 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,880 And I want to tell you that yes, indeed 687 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,080 there are people who really believe in what we do 688 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,240 and who understood and accepted that a sacrifice is needed 689 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,720 to be able to fulfill our mission. 690 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,400 And when this sacrifice becomes a trauma... 691 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,240 - Do you have any other questions? - Yes, I have a few more. 692 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,960 OK, send them via e-mail. 693 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,920 Thank you very much. 694 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,960 I will call someone from the administration to help you 695 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,200 wrap the equipment and to take you outside. 696 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,120 - Thank you. Good day! - I understand. Thank you as well! 697 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:35,320 Do you think you have managed to provide the necessary support to employees? 698 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,960 - No. - Why? 699 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,880 Because the hours of therapy allocated according to the contract were very few. 700 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,880 I think that they would have been enough for 5 or 6 employees. 701 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,280 While there were about 50 in that department. 702 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,080 And who was keeping track of the therapy hours? 703 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,680 You or those from the medical network? 704 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,480 Theoretically, the medical network had to take care of the administrative part, 705 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,680 except that those from the company wanted to be very involved in the process. 706 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,240 Thus they made the calendar. 707 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,640 What do you mean? 708 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,240 I mean the HR department was doing the scheduling and informing us. 709 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,400 And I have the feeling that they were interfering with it. 710 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,200 And they were deciding who should come to the therapy in that month. 711 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,680 Is it normal? 712 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,520 Isn't that an intrusion in the therapy process? 713 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,040 - Are they even allowed to...? - Yes, it is. They shouldn't. 714 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,240 We opposed to such practices. 715 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,840 We complained to the medical network. 716 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,760 We threatened to stop the collaboration. But... 717 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,600 - And did they stop? - No. 718 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,840 They kept it going until an extreme situation was reached. 719 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,960 In the sense that, at some point, they asked us for reports 720 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,920 about what was discussed in the therapy sessions with their employees. 721 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:10,800 - Wow! - Yeah... 722 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,440 Of course, we invoked the patient confidentiality. 723 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,200 We complained again to the medical network 724 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,640 and we had the idea to complain to the Board of Psychologists. 725 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,240 And what happened? 726 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,240 The action turned against us. 727 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,440 And by that I mean that 728 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,720 the medical network didn't want to lose such an important client. 729 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,600 They stopped working with us 730 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,360 and the complaint from the Board of psychologists was rejected 731 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,880 by a colleague who... 732 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,840 who two months later got the contract with the medical network 733 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,400 and ended up working with Futura AI himself. 734 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,120 Unbelievable! 735 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,840 Yes? 736 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,200 - Hello! Excuse us! - Hello! 737 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,080 I'll bother you for a minute 738 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:08,360 I would like to talk about the fire from the 23rd of May, from Futura AI. 739 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,240 I'm sorry, I finished the program. Please, come back tomorrow. 740 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,000 As I told you, I'm investigating Futura AI 741 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,096 and I would like to know if the Territorial Labor Inspectorate 742 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,120 is aware of these facts. 743 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,280 Yes, of course. 744 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,576 Come back tomorrow and we will discuss if you make an appointment. 745 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,640 It will only take 2 or 3 minutes. 746 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,840 Following the discussions with some employees, 747 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,720 I discovered a series of psychological abuses. 748 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,440 Yes, I read your e-mail. 749 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,880 In short, I analyzed the files 750 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,160 and I didn't find any investigation related to a similar accusation. 751 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,480 In order to have an investigation, the former or actual employees 752 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,240 should make a series of complaints. 753 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,520 I have at least 6 testimonies related to possible abuses within the company. 754 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,040 Yes, I understand your approach, 755 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,440 but it is a journalistic approach, not a legal one. 756 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,720 It cannot be the basis for an investigation. 757 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,800 As I told you, for this to have happened, 758 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,600 the former employees would have had to call us directly 759 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,560 and we would have came to investigate. 760 00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:06,960 Or the actual employees, if they wish to do so, 761 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,040 can file a complaint anytime and we will come to investigate. 762 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,600 Otherwise, you won't do anything? 763 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,600 There is no complaint, so there cannot be an investigation. 764 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:22,200 Moreover, from the interactions we had with this company, 765 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,440 there are no suspicions that it is a dishonest employer. 766 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,840 They always pay their employees' taxes on time, there 767 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,680 are no suspicions that they had illegal employees, 768 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,280 they comply with all safety and labor protection regulations. 769 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaking of safety rules, 770 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,056 did you investigate the presence of the employee in the server room 771 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:42,640 where the fire took place? 772 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,720 Yes, there was an inspection after the fire. 773 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,360 Well, you said that you did not make any inspection. 774 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,040 From your email, I understood that you need information 775 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,520 related to an investigation regarding certain psychological abuses. 776 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,360 The fire is a different kind of incident. 777 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,600 You are right. Let's go back to the fire. 778 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,440 What did you find out after the inspection? 779 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,920 As I noted in the file I forwarded to the Prosecutor's Office, 780 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,240 the employee had nothing to do at that time, in that place. 781 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,160 The safety rules were briefed two months ago. 782 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,440 We also have his signatures on the instruction sheet. 783 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,520 We also checked the internal order regulations. 784 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,736 It is written there that the employee should inform his superiors 785 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,160 about his location in the company's headquarters. 786 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,640 And all the security areas where he had access were very clearly defined. 787 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,240 Eremia wrote a series of posts, almost ten, in which he expressed his doubts 788 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,080 about the influence that AI will have on our society. 789 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,720 It is clear that his ideological approach is influenced by his religion. 790 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,880 And I want to give you an example from a longer post. 791 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,480 "When we give the AI the power to make decisions, 792 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,280 to decide what is good and what is bad, 793 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,440 we renounce assuming our own sins. 794 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,960 The AI tells us if we are wrong and we no longer take blame for this process. 795 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,000 Although we believe that we will build a better world, 796 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,160 "in fact, we destroy the one we have without realizing it." 797 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,800 It is not just a general post about AI, it is clearly a reference 798 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,120 to the AI developed by Futura AI, 799 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,960 which, as he believed, will decide for us 800 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,200 what is good and what is bad and what constitutes a sin. 801 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,280 Something happened in Eremia's mind, that's for sure. 802 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,200 He started to question what he was doing at work 803 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,480 and when he became vocal and especially public, 804 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,680 he got into a conflict with his employer. 805 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,160 The same source also told me that Eremia was reprimanded for these posts 806 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,840 and what's more, he was forced to delete them. 807 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,840 I found a few other things. 808 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,840 I want to ask you about Eremia's social media posts. 809 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,760 Yes, the only thing is that right now I am very busy, 810 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,960 and I don't think it's a discussion that we could have on the phone. 811 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,280 Ah, does that mean we can meet? 812 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,936 I think it would be best if I send you an e-mail 813 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,440 to let you know when we can schedule a discussion or an interview 814 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,281 - or however you call it. - Great. Thank you very much! 815 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,760 Well, at least I got a promise, over the phone 816 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,080 that she will write me an e-mail 817 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,080 in which she will let me know when she has the time to meet with us. 818 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:36,880 All good. 819 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,880 We've all read Asimov. He always started from the Laws of Robotics, 820 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,760 which were designed so that humankind would never be harmed 821 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,240 by the artificial entities that it built. 822 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,040 Of course, we should not look at the problem in such a fatalistic way. 823 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080 But, we are at the beginning of a revolution 824 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,320 and if we don't build everything on solid ground, 825 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,160 in a few years we will not be able to control this process. 826 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,360 What do you mean, more precisely? 827 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480 Let's look, for example, at what happened with social media. 828 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,840 The initial promise was that it would bring us closer to each other. 829 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,800 But with no control of the process and ethical thinking behind it, 830 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,040 we ended up with the slip-ups of today. 831 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,440 Instead of having social connection, we have division and conflict. 832 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:22,520 And what do you think is the biggest problem in the development of AI? 833 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,960 The promise that AI is coming with is that it will help humanity 834 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,240 progress to the next level of cultural and spiritual evolution. 835 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,240 In reality, all these products are owned by some corporations. 836 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,320 What is the main purpose of a corporation? 837 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,920 It is to make a profit and then distribute it to shareholders 838 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,640 in the form of dividends. 839 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,000 This is where the first level of conflict appears. 840 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,640 If a company were to face a decision and had to choose 841 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,880 whether to give larger dividends to its shareholders 842 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,680 or cut profits to build a safer AI. 843 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,200 - What would it choose? - To cut profits. 844 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,960 You said this is the first level. What is the next level? 845 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,960 The next level is the market competition. 846 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,880 All these companies develop AIs that fight on the same segment. 847 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,680 Again, if you run such a company, what do you choose to do? 848 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,400 Would you take, for example, a decision 849 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,440 that would propel you beyond your competition, 850 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,200 sacrificing the morality and ethics necessary 851 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,040 for the development of a healthy AI? 852 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,080 - Hello, yes? - Hello! Good day! 853 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,600 - Natalia? - Hello. Hm... yes!? 854 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,000 I'm Gabriel Vânătoru, an independent journalist. 855 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:43,280 I'm doing a story, well, an investigation about Eremia Ţofan, 856 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:44,920 I don't know if you heard about him. 857 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,760 I know you are a member of the "Holy Trinity" Community, 858 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,840 and I wanted to know more about this community 859 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,600 and about how Eremia integrated into it, among you. 860 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,760 - Can we talk? - I see. 861 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:06,360 Unfortunately, you should know that I no longer belong to that church community. 862 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,080 - I see. - I don't want to talk about it either. 863 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,360 - And about... - But about Eremia, did you know him? 864 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,760 Yes... regarding Eremia... Of course, I heard about the incident but... 865 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,200 I don't want to comment on this. 866 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:24,840 I understand. 867 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,240 Yes, I will ask you to excuse me. I can't talk anymore. 868 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,360 Are you aware that Eremia had a series of posts in which he expressed 869 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,240 his dissatisfaction with the ethics behind your AI program... 870 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,400 Yes. 871 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,600 and that he was forced to delete them? 872 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,240 Yes, we know everything about the story of Eremia's posts. 873 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:49,240 However, to better understand our position 874 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,320 we will take a step back. 875 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,520 Two years ago, Eremia went through a process of religious reorientation. 876 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:04,800 We support the right of private life of our employees and religious freedom. 877 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,120 However, following these changes, 878 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,600 Eremia became much more vocal and started making his opinions public. 879 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:15,520 Are you referring to these posts? 880 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,400 Beyond these posts, there were many moments 881 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,200 when in the office, in front of other employees, 882 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:26,600 Eremia began to show doubts about our activity. 883 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,360 You claim to be a progressive company. 884 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,240 Don't you support freedom of expression? 885 00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:34,040 Yes, we do. We support freedom of expression 886 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,840 and the right to religious freedom. 887 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,040 However, when you are an employee of a stock listed company, 888 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:47,080 you have to be aware of their public stance about certain topics. 889 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,600 Yes, but Eremia was no Elon Musk, 890 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,120 to afffect international markets with a Twitter post. 891 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,000 He was just an employee. 892 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,000 Yes, but you have to understand 893 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,360 that a company that develops AI 894 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,640 is permanently under the scrutiny of the press and the scientific community. 895 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,040 If an employee comes forward and says that a mistake is being made here 896 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,520 that will have worldwide repercussions, 897 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:16,720 then by our front door The Guardian or The New York Times or both will show up. 898 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,240 In addition, Eremia had signed confidentiality agreements 899 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,680 that prohibited him from making such conflicting opinions public. 900 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,120 So, you support all opinions 901 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,400 as long as they are aligned with the company's policy? 902 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,720 No, that's not the point. 903 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,760 We really support all the opinions of our employees 904 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,960 even when they are critical of us, I assure you. 905 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:42,680 And then why was it necessary for Eremia to be reprimanded by the HR department? 906 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,960 Reprimanded is a very exaggerated term. 907 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,800 The process itself is very trite. 908 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,600 The HR team sends an e-mail 909 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,280 reminding you of the confidentiality agreements that you signed 910 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,960 and you are asked to take these clauses into account 911 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,480 when you make a public post. 912 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,920 We can call it "guidance for the future" rather than a reprimand. 913 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,840 Yes, it sounds much nicer. 914 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,320 - Here's how I see it, okay? - OK, 915 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,560 An employee who had conflicts with the HR department and the top management 916 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,720 gets right in the middle of a fire. 917 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:21,560 What do you think? 918 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,720 Okay, I will tell you for the thousandth time. 919 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,840 Behind this fire there were a series of unfortunate events. 920 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,680 It may seem strange considering Eremia's history 921 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,280 but he had nothing to do with the fire. 922 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,280 Except the fact that he died in it. 923 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,816 Should I understand that we are finished? 924 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,096 No. I want to ask you something else. 925 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,200 If everything is so clear, 926 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,760 why did I have to look for sources to find out all this information? 927 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,440 Why didn't you come forth from the start with all the information 928 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:53,880 and say how it happened? 929 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,280 Because if we went public and talked about all these contradicting opinions 930 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,280 between Eremia and our company, 931 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,760 opinions based on this religious reorientation process, 932 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,320 then we would have caused a scandal 933 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,600 that I don't know how we could have put an end to. 934 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,920 That would have also involved Eremia's church 935 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,560 which had nothing to do with this whole story. 936 00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:16,800 And you know for sure how the Baptist communities are perceived here. 937 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,040 They are seen as sectarians, or members of a cult, or loonatics, or whatever. 938 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:26,720 And beyond this, Eremia's image would have been tarnished. 939 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,520 But, Eremia really was an exemplary employee. 940 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,480 And probably the tabloid press would have portrayed him 941 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,320 as a kind of religious fundamentalist 942 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,800 who started some kind of crusade against technology. 943 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,120 And Eremia was not this kind of person. 944 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,960 - So, you actually protected him. - Yes. 945 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,280 Yes, our actions were based on our feelings towards him. 946 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,440 And despite all those contradicting opinions, 947 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,800 Eremia was never considered less important 948 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,680 after all these events. 949 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,400 And then, when all the Facebook posts madness was over, 950 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,760 he continued to be one of our most productive employees. 951 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,480 So, I don't understand why all this fuss is being made 952 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,120 based on some simple Facebook posts. 953 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,560 Eremia was one of our parishioners. 954 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,840 A very good person. 955 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,040 Whose loss we will alway feel in our hearts. 956 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,040 Do you remember how you met him? 957 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,360 He came to us. 958 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:40,640 It was... 959 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,320 at a time when he was very lost. 960 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:45,440 He couldn't find his way. 961 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,280 I think he felt very lonely. 962 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,120 But God sometimes does things in ways you don't expect. 963 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,280 And one day he received a flyer on the street from our church. 964 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:04,160 And he listened to his soul. And he came to us, to the Sunday service. 965 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,880 And I think he felt that here he could find a second home. 966 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,880 We are a very open community and we welcome anyone. 967 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,240 Eremia had a certain distance. 968 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,280 The church was clearly doing him good, 969 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,120 but there was a reluctance in him to get closer to us. 970 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,960 We hoped that as time passed, this barrier would disappear. 971 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,480 After all, you can't change yourself overnight. 972 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,120 Of course. 973 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,640 Did you manage to got closer to him 974 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,320 to find out more about his life? 975 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,760 At one point, about two years ago, 976 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:49,280 Eremia came to the Sunday service and he seemed very upset. 977 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,920 It seemed that he was carrying the burden of the whole world on his shoulders. 978 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,480 It hurt my soul to see him like this. 979 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,920 And after the service, I asked him to come to my place 980 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,640 and to have lunch with my family. 981 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,840 Only after lunch, after a few hours, 982 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,600 he calmed down and told me what was on his mind. 983 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,840 From what I understood, he was working at an IT company. 984 00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:19,280 And he had to watch videos with violent content for several hours. 985 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:20,520 Exactly. 986 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,440 Eremia considered that 987 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,800 it would be a great sin if he continued to work for them. 988 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,400 Did you manage to find out more details about his work? 989 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,320 At the same time, he told me that the employer treated them quite badly. 990 00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:38,400 They had to work many unpaid hours 991 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,760 and many of his colleagues resigned 992 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,760 because of the stress they were subjected to. 993 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,360 And did you give him any advice? 994 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,080 Yes, I told him to leave immediately. 995 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,280 That was clearly not a place to stay. 996 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,800 And again, I realized what a good man he was. 997 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:58,720 One of the reasons why he didn't leave was that he strongly believed 998 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,920 that his and his colleagues' work would make the world a better place. 999 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:04,720 That was also his dilemma. 1000 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,800 He felt that he was committing sins every day, 1001 00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:10,280 but he believed that his sins would be forgiven 1002 00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,000 because he was contributing to something greater: To everyone's well-being. 1003 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,160 And did he ever tell you in detail 1004 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,920 how he suspected his work would be used, 1005 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,400 and what were the evil purposes he feared? 1006 00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:27,520 There was another problem here because 1007 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:33,280 everything was more of a hunch from his intuition. 1008 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,880 He knew that if he went to talk to someone about this... 1009 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,400 - they would ask for evidence, proof. - Yes. 1010 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,720 And Eremia wasn't a detective. 1011 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,480 He was only... 1012 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,240 observing what was happening and... 1013 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,840 he had started to have the feeling that something was about to happen. 1014 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,840 - Is it on? - Yes. 1015 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,000 Besides the interviews with the former employees, 1016 00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,120 I decided to investigate another lead in parallel. 1017 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,280 I've just received the expertise reports 1018 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,520 and the fire plans necessary for the operating permits. 1019 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,640 At first glance, nothing seems strange or illegal. On the contrary, 1020 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,120 they support the official version. 1021 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,680 But maybe it's normal, because I also got information 1022 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,040 about the company that issued these documents. 1023 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,200 The company is called Safety Experts SRL, 1024 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,240 with the main shareholder one Mrs. Maria Popa, 1025 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,640 who is also the company's administrator. 1026 00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,880 If that doesn't sound familiar, it did for me... 1027 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,720 and a few Facebook searches later 1028 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,600 Mrs. Maria Popa is none other than the wife of Adrian Popa, 1029 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,760 investigative officer of the fire brigade, 1030 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,800 the same officer who made the fire report, 1031 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,200 same report which was used by the Prosecutor's Office. 1032 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,800 Does the scheme seem familiar to you? 1033 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,440 I'm a state employee so I'm not allowed to 1034 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,200 work with private companies, but my wife can. 1035 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,440 So, we make a company under the name of the wife 1036 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,440 and we use the agency of the husband to promise our clients 1037 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,760 that they will get operating permits much easier. 1038 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,000 A conflict of interest, by the book. 1039 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,480 Let's go to mfinance. Ro 1040 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,280 to see what we can find about Safety Experts. 1041 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,000 Let's see how experts they are. 1042 00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:58,360 I want to see what they did in 2022. 1043 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,000 881,000 RON profit. 1044 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:05,520 Wow! 1045 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,600 7 employees. 1046 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,240 Wow! Interesting! 1047 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:17,800 I'm calling Maria Popa, the administrator of Safety Experts. 1048 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,240 Let's call her husband too, Adrian Popa, 1049 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,960 the firefighter officer. 1050 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,240 If he also doesn't answer, then it's obvious... 1051 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,320 they are together at the movies. 1052 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,800 The line is busy at the moment. Please try again later. 1053 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,320 So it is. 1054 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,120 That's also some kind of answer. 1055 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,920 I know that for a while, for the first time in my life, 1056 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:07,480 I ended up having insomnia. 1057 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,496 And when I managed to fall asleep, I often had all kinds of weird dreams, 1058 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,560 nightmares, stuff. 1059 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,240 And I linked them with my work. 1060 01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,280 I believed that was the reason 1061 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:17,960 and I was very close to resigning. 1062 01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,360 But just when I was ready to go do it, 1063 01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,000 they changed the content at work and things relaxed a bit. 1064 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,320 What we were watching until then were extremely violent videos. 1065 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,080 And suddenly they focused on much lighter things. 1066 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,600 They were still with violence and stuff 1067 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,680 but they were more bearable than before. 1068 01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,160 I mean, now we were watching stuff like 1069 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,560 gendarmerie beating people in the street, 1070 01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,360 the police shooting rubber bullets into crowds... 1071 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,080 Tolerable stuff, you know? 1072 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,280 Protesters with signs... 1073 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,200 And this change 1074 01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,920 had a positive effect for the whole department. 1075 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,400 People were more relaxed, they stopped resigning one after another. 1076 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,880 Even the managers were more ok. 1077 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,680 Do you remember how Eremia reacted to this change in content? 1078 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,120 To be honest, I didn't really understand Eremia. 1079 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,760 I also can't say I was very close to him, but... 1080 01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,760 the thing is, at the beginning, when the work was bad, really hardcore, 1081 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,480 he was coming to work, he didn't say anything, he did his job, 1082 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,560 he was hitting the target, getting the bonus, 1083 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,720 he was very disciplined and quiet. 1084 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,080 The thing is, at some point, he went through... 1085 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,480 a conversion, or something religious. 1086 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,520 And from that point on, he started to... 1087 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,880 out of the blue, have all kinds of speeches, you know? 1088 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,176 He would come, you were having a cigarette, minding your own business, 1089 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,640 and he would say things about God, religion, ethics, morality... 1090 01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,000 And what I found the weirdest was that 1091 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,160 when this change of content came, 1092 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,920 everyone, as I said, was more relaxed and chill 1093 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,720 but the only one who was frustrated was Eremia. 1094 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,640 He was always more attentive than us 1095 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,640 to what the company was doing, to what was happening around us. 1096 01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,680 That's why he had problems with the HR, 1097 01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,280 because of the infamous posts on Facebook. 1098 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,360 During the content change, 1099 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,560 there were also other events that we completely ignored, 1100 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,560 but he always highlighted them. 1101 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,800 Can you tell some of those events? 1102 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,400 For example, a series of visits from some Asians. 1103 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,200 We didn't really care, we were always seeing foreigners around the company. 1104 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,040 And they never told us who they were or what they were doing. 1105 01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,000 We thought they were given presentations about our AI. 1106 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,480 But Eremia was saying that 1107 01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:47,320 there definitely is something wrong with those Chinese guests. 1108 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,360 We thought that was because of his religion 1109 01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,160 and that's why he was behaving like that. 1110 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,000 But when about four people who spoke Mandarin were hired 1111 01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,200 to assist with those visits, 1112 01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,800 to help keep in touch with the Asians... 1113 01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,200 then Eremia became even more apprehensive. 1114 01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:04,720 Did he have a theory? 1115 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,520 He started telling us that the AI we developed 1116 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,320 was going to have a different purpose. 1117 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,680 He said it would be bought by an authoritarian government 1118 01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,880 that would use it as a tool of censorship, to control the population. 1119 01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:20,960 And you? What did you think? 1120 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,880 Well, the man kept saying weird stuff for a while 1121 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,240 and I didn't care too much about it. 1122 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,840 There were some colleagues who seemed 1123 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,200 to listen to him more, to whisper stuff along, but usually, 1124 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,280 people didn't really care for it. 1125 01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,800 We were happy that the content was much lighter 1126 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:40,416 and there was no need for extra stress. 1127 01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:41,640 I see. 1128 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,000 But what about the company's management? 1129 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,040 I think it bothered them a bit, 'cause I know there was talk at one point 1130 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,680 that his speeches even became 1131 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,840 a topic of discussion in upper management meetings. 1132 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,640 And yes, it makes sense if you think about it. 1133 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,880 If you are such a corporation, 1134 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,480 you really don't need some dude with a Messiah complex. 1135 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,520 It seems that he was... 1136 01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,720 kind of alone in this process, right? 1137 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,760 Eremia was not 100% coherent. 1138 01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,480 I mean, we couldn't fully believe him either. 1139 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,280 Even if his theory made some sense... 1140 01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,800 he kept mixing it with the religion, with ethics... 1141 01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:21,416 you no longer understood what he wanted to say 1142 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,000 and what the problem was after all. 1143 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,960 So, we have the complete change of content for moderation. 1144 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,600 This, of course, meant much less stress for the team. 1145 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,160 Up at the offices, behind closed doors, this change had more ramifications. 1146 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:41,920 Most likely, those from Futura were preparing the ground for the new client. 1147 01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:48,040 And Eremia's guess was that the next client would be the Chinese government. 1148 01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,400 Those from Futura had been playing the religion card. 1149 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,600 They didn't even mention this change of content. 1150 01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:57,160 Where is Twitter? 1151 01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,160 Where are those big companies that were in dire need of their AI? 1152 01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,640 They say that Eremia was criticizing them because he had discovered God 1153 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,920 and because he had a problem with technological evolution. 1154 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:15,560 But if those from PR are hiding the real reasons for his protests, 1155 01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:22,320 it means that his fear that the AI would be sold to some dictators, was true. 1156 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,800 Why wouldn't this AI be used by an authoritarian government 1157 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,720 to censor the videos in which it was criticized, 1158 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,800 or especially possible protests? 1159 01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:38,000 All these things add up and build for us a picture 1160 01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:42,640 that moves further and further away from the hypothesis of an accident. 1161 01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,000 I'll be frank. Do you know anything about the new main client 1162 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,160 that was going to benefit from the AI? 1163 01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,720 I hope you didn't forget that I have a confidentiality clause 1164 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,680 and I can't discuss the current policy of the company. 1165 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:55,520 But honestly, I really don't know anything. 1166 01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:57,856 Except for the fact that I have some shares there, 1167 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,080 I don't keep in touch with those from the company. 1168 01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,560 I've heard some rumors 1169 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:08,120 that the AI will be sold to an authoritarian government from Asia. 1170 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,680 If we are talking about rumors, I have heard... 1171 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:17,520 that the selling of Twitter to Elon Musk hit them pretty hard. 1172 01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,360 The first thing that Musk did when he took over 1173 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,880 was to kick out all the external contractors. 1174 01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,000 And after that, to terminate all the big contracts with technology providers. 1175 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,440 Anyway, Musk is not a big fan of the idea of moderation. 1176 01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,160 So, he cut all ties with the people from Futura. 1177 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,280 And why didn't this make the news? 1178 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:38,296 In the pile of stupid things Musk was doing every day, 1179 01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,040 do you think someone had the time to look at 1180 01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,680 all the people who were fired, or who lost a contract? 1181 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,840 But this helped Futura. 1182 01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,000 Why? 1183 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:48,840 They're keeping their heads above water. 1184 01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,440 If the press doesn't know about the closing of the contract, 1185 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,480 the shares will remain at a decent level. 1186 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,360 The only thing they have to do is to find another client 1187 01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,560 before they publish the next financial results. 1188 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:01,296 And do you think they have a chance? 1189 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:02,320 Very little chance. 1190 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,600 Facebook is already working on its own AI, 1191 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,680 which will also solve the moderation part. 1192 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,680 Google is also doing some experiments in this direction. 1193 01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,480 Well, there is still TikTok, which is originally from... 1194 01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,000 - China. - Exactly. 1195 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,240 But, unfortunately, they don't care what happens on their platform 1196 01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,640 as long as the algorithm works and they make money. 1197 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:25,280 Plus, in Asia it's pretty cheap to hire people to do manual moderation. 1198 01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,640 So, the scenario of an authoritarian government... Do you think it's plausible? 1199 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:31,440 Theoretically, yes. 1200 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,800 Without Twitter, they practically have nothing. 1201 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,040 And they seemed pretty desperate 1202 01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,880 and profit driven enough to sell to anyone. 1203 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,680 We tried not to reveal too much to the press 1204 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:03,840 about Eremia's behavior. 1205 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,360 Because we knew he would depicted as a 1206 01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,480 religious fundamentalist, and his image would be tarnished. 1207 01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,640 Yes, I know about this communication approach. 1208 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,520 I can't say I agree with it, but that's another problem. 1209 01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,720 I'm interested to know, more specifically, 1210 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,160 which were his interactions with the HR department before the incident. 1211 01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:25,440 Eremia was, until the end, an exemplary employee. 1212 01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,280 We have nothing to criticize him for. 1213 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,200 He believed in what we are doing here. 1214 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:35,960 And he dedicated many years to help us fulfill the vision of Futura AI. 1215 01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:37,696 So, if he was an exemplary employee, 1216 01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,520 why did he constantly receive reprimands? 1217 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,200 I don't want to ruin Eremia's memory, but... 1218 01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,840 Yes, towards the end, collaborating with him was very difficult. 1219 01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,760 What do you mean by difficult? Can you elaborate? 1220 01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:54,600 His religious conversion was the key factor in his change. 1221 01:08:55,200 --> 01:09:00,680 After that, Eremia became very vocal about ethical issues 1222 01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:05,040 and how that was affecting the AI we are building. 1223 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,040 - And was he right? - That was his opinion, that's all. 1224 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,320 And yet, from the interviews I did with 1225 01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:14,360 internal sources from your company, 1226 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,200 his complaints in the last year were of a different nature. 1227 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:18,880 I don't understand what you mean. 1228 01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:20,480 You don't know? Let me tell you. 1229 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,840 During the last few months, Eremia was convinced 1230 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:24,840 that the AI developed by you 1231 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,280 will be sold to an authoritarian government from Asia. 1232 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,000 I've never heard this story before. 1233 01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,400 Anyway, it's something I would categorize as conspiracy theory. 1234 01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,520 There are colleagues who can confirm that Eremia publicly supported this theory. 1235 01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,120 As I mentioned, Eremia was going through a period 1236 01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:46,360 in which his opinions were strongly influenced by his religious ideology. 1237 01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,560 And he became very vocal 1238 01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:55,360 and repeatedly violated the confidentiality clauses in his contract. 1239 01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:00,320 We tried to understand him, to respect his religious orientation, 1240 01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:03,080 the right to express his opinions, 1241 01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:04,920 but there comes a moment when 1242 01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:09,360 we are either in the same boat or we are on different paths. 1243 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:10,920 But Eremia didn't want this. 1244 01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,440 Anyway, he also had his unique stubbornness. 1245 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,120 He didn't want to understand other points of view. 1246 01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,000 It seems to me that you are still using his religion 1247 01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,960 to minimize, and lump together, all his complaints. 1248 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,000 Although the fear that AI might fall into the hands of 1249 01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,640 some forces with less than noble intentions was a valid one. 1250 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,520 I haven't been informed of anything like that regarding Eremia. 1251 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,040 There are witnesses who can attest 1252 01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,080 that the department you are leading tried to stop him from speaking. 1253 01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:44,120 Maybe you should check if these witnesses can be trusted. 1254 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:46,120 They are your employees. 1255 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,880 Okay, we're entering a territory where your questions sound like accusations. 1256 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,880 We have shared with you all the materials you asked for. 1257 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,200 I accepted to participate in this interview, 1258 01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,920 but if you continue with conspiracy theories, 1259 01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,080 I will ask you to talk to the legal department. 1260 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,856 - I still have some questions for you. - Thank you. Have a good day! 1261 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:06,400 Eremia was very suspicious. 1262 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:10,440 From the very beginning he didn't agree with this change. 1263 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:14,400 And when we got the visits from the Chinese, 1264 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,280 he started to make connections. 1265 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,280 Were there others who believed in his theory? 1266 01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:20,640 Yes, of course. 1267 01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,600 There were many who, after we got used to the new routine, 1268 01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:27,480 started to question why we receive that kind of videos. 1269 01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:32,760 And what Eremia was saying, his explanation, made sense. 1270 01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:37,640 But it was like that thing: Children and fools always speak the truth. 1271 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,576 Even though what the man was saying made sense, many saw him as a madman. 1272 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,776 Even though what the man was saying made sense, many saw him as a madman. 1273 01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,960 And because he paraded around with this theory, 1274 01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:49,360 the theory itself came to be regarded as a crazy one. 1275 01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:54,640 Besides the visits and the change of content, were there other signs? 1276 01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:56,720 There would be something else... 1277 01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,360 At the same time, they changed the terminals 1278 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,200 from which we viewed the content. 1279 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,200 We were complaining about them for some time, 1280 01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,096 that they got old, but nothing was done. 1281 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,280 And suddenly we received new phones and tablets. 1282 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,720 All from Chinese producers. 1283 01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:16,080 How did Eremia react to the change of terminals? 1284 01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:21,160 He kept commenting all this time that what was happening wasn't okay, 1285 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,920 and the thing with the devices made him even more skeptical and vocal. 1286 01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:31,360 But since he repeatedly criticized the company's decisions 1287 01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,400 and he contested the official narrative of the corporation, 1288 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,280 he drew the fury of HR and top management. 1289 01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:40,320 And what did they do? 1290 01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:43,320 They tried to isolate him, they moved him around the office, 1291 01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:47,640 they gave him many days of work from home, when this was not yet in fashion. 1292 01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:49,920 But Eremia was stubborn too. 1293 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,480 Because he also wrote back e-mails to the top management. 1294 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:55,520 Until one day when they called him in 1295 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:57,560 a meeting with the entire team from legal. 1296 01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:59,800 I think he stayed there for about two hours. 1297 01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:01,600 When he left, he was pale. 1298 01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:03,840 And they forced him to speak in front of everyone, 1299 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,000 in front of the whole department 1300 01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:10,160 and to apologize for spreading false theories about the company. 1301 01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:14,680 We received, from several sources, a series of videos used 1302 01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:18,560 to feed the AI from Futura AI in the last period. 1303 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,360 Absolutely all of them are real footage 1304 01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,080 from the protests in Asia in the last three years, 1305 01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,880 including those in China, against the COVID measures. 1306 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,240 We also received a series of print screens with the reports 1307 01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,760 that had to be completed by the employees of the company. 1308 01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,320 Some kind of captcha, where you had to choose: 1309 01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:40,320 "Please select all the participants in the protest". 1310 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:45,280 And another one that said: "Please select all the police forces in the protest". 1311 01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:49,160 I believe more and more that Eremia's intuition was correct. 1312 01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,640 The possibility that the AI could be used to 1313 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:58,360 supervise the citizens, a kind of 1984, is very high. 1314 01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:04,280 And because Eremia was vocal, he became a target. 1315 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,720 Thank you very much for taking the time to do this interview. 1316 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:40,600 Let's start with your name and your postion. 1317 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,320 - Do I really have to? - Yes, please. 1318 01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:48,840 Hi! My name is Radu Dumitru, I'm the CEO and co-founder of Futura AI. 1319 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,600 I'm glad to be here for this interview. 1320 01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:56,160 Seriously? Your colleagues from PR and HR weren't too excited to talk to me. 1321 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,400 Didn't they tell you anything? 1322 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:00,640 Although we were not on the same page, 1323 01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,160 you should know that we greatly appreciate your effort for this investigation. 1324 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,560 I think this is the role of the press, to show us the mistakes that 1325 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,720 we often ignore or are not aware of. 1326 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:13,440 - Was Eremia a mistake? - Not at all. 1327 01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,920 But I'm aware that this story could have been managed better... 1328 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,080 - both for us and for Eremia's sake. - For sure. 1329 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,840 I'd like to talk first about the contract with Twitter. 1330 01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:26,640 Is it true that it disappeared overnight? 1331 01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:32,160 I can't confirm or deny this hypothesis. 1332 01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:37,000 From my point of view, Twitter is now facing a total chaotic management. 1333 01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:39,360 They try to restore the order on the Internet 1334 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:41,760 by plugging and unplugging the plug from the socket. 1335 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:45,200 You realize that in such a context, 1336 01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,960 the situation of companies that had large contracts with Twitter 1337 01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:49,120 is a bit uncertain. 1338 01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,360 Does this suggest that your company's position is also somewhat uncertain? 1339 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,880 Not at all. We have one of the best AIs for content moderation on the market. 1340 01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:59,240 - And no client. - No big client! 1341 01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:01,600 These are two different things. 1342 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,880 Our AI product is already used by several companies, 1343 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,360 which, of course, are not at the level of Twitter's notoriety. 1344 01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,400 I understand. From the interviews that I've done, 1345 01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,160 it seems that Eremia had a theory. 1346 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,400 That your next client 1347 01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:23,520 was going to be an authoritarian government from Asia. 1348 01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:25,960 Most likely the Chinese one, 1349 01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,360 which was going to use your AI 1350 01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:30,720 to supervise their citizens. 1351 01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,680 I know. I've heard this theory before and 1352 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,400 I can't categorize it other than 1353 01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:40,960 a nonsensical idea. 1354 01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,960 So how do you explain the fact that Eremia and his colleagues 1355 01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:45,600 have seen hundreds of videos 1356 01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,680 in which protesters were assaulted by the police? 1357 01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:51,520 Our AI is enormously complex. 1358 01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:55,480 We constantly have to test some other capabilities, 1359 01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:57,320 to continuously develop it. 1360 01:16:57,480 --> 01:16:59,160 You are avoiding an answer... 1361 01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,600 We are talking about reports that your employees were supposed to fill precisely, 1362 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,600 with who are the protesters, who are the police officers... 1363 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,520 Who needs such information? 1364 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,280 I don't know how to explain to you right now 1365 01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,480 what functions we were trying to develop at that stage. 1366 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,760 It wasn't a phase! There were entire months 1367 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,640 during which Eremia and his colleagues watched 1368 01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,680 all the videos of protests in Asia from recent years. 1369 01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:26,760 Including the anti-lockdown ones from China. 1370 01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:33,520 I understand your confusion, but I really don't know why that was done, at the time. 1371 01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,120 I'm CEO, I have more of a strategic role. 1372 01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,640 I don't know what each employee, does every day, at the task level. 1373 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:44,040 So, you are denying this theory? 1374 01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:49,920 For confidentiality reasons, I cannot go into details about our future customers. 1375 01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:53,760 We are in a very laborious process from a legal point of view. 1376 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:56,680 Although I would like to be able to give you more information, 1377 01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:00,200 because it would immediately dissolve your theory, I can't. 1378 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:04,400 But in a year, two at most, we will be able to share more information. 1379 01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:07,440 Good. Well, let's leave it like that. 1380 01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,120 Let's move on to the next aspect. 1381 01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,200 The company that helped you 1382 01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,360 with the permits for your headquarters, 1383 01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,200 is administered, absolutely coincidentally, I am sure, 1384 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:22,920 by the wife of the firefighter sent here to investigate the causes of the fire. 1385 01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:25,040 - Really? - Yes. 1386 01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:27,280 It's possible. 1387 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,840 I wasn't aware of this information 1388 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,720 and I realize that it may seem like an incompatibility, 1389 01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:34,240 but I think it's pure coincidence. 1390 01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,920 Aren't there quite a lot of pure coincidences in this whole situation? 1391 01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:41,440 I'll be honest. I don't know who took care of the permits when we moved here. 1392 01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,320 I was never interested in administrative problems. 1393 01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:47,680 I always channeled my energy and attention 1394 01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:50,880 to the things that really matter in this company. 1395 01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:52,360 I understand. 1396 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,800 - Do you want to hear my theory? - Of course, I'm really curious. 1397 01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:57,600 I'm sure. 1398 01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,120 Eremia was a model employee, 1399 01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,440 who truly believed in your story from the beginning, 1400 01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,480 the one about better internet and a world without evil. 1401 01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:08,720 A bit naive, but... 1402 01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,360 Precisely because he had this belief, 1403 01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:17,120 and not at all from his religious convictions, how you make it seem... 1404 01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:22,120 when things went wrong, he expressed his opinion. 1405 01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,800 And for this opinion he was systematically reduced to silence 1406 01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,600 by the HR department and by the top management. 1407 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,920 He was ostracized, humiliated, 1408 01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,160 abused, and pushed to the brink of the abyss. 1409 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,120 And because no one helped him and no one believed him, 1410 01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,160 he decided to seek justice on his own. 1411 01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:43,720 So most likely, he stole a card 1412 01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,440 and caused the fire to destroy the AI that was supposed to 1413 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:54,320 end up in a totalitarian country and be used against its people. 1414 01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,400 And in order to cover up this story, 1415 01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:59,600 you used all your connections, 1416 01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,000 you drafted that expertise report 1417 01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,840 that tells the story in a light that favors and exonerates you. 1418 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,280 And within 24 hours, the case was dismissed... 1419 01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:15,120 and problem called Eremia was closed forever. 1420 01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:16,520 Quite literally. 1421 01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:24,840 It's an interesting theory indeed. One that could make it in a pretty good movie. 1422 01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:26,320 But nothing more. 1423 01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,680 What you are telling me now is nothing more than a conspiracy theory, 1424 01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:34,200 with the big evil corporation trying to cover its tracks. 1425 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:37,840 Unfortunately, in reality things are much simpler 1426 01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:39,400 and more sad. 1427 01:20:40,440 --> 01:20:42,400 Eremia was an exceptional employee. 1428 01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,040 Who at some point started to have a more radical vision 1429 01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:49,640 after being strongly influenced by his affiliation to a religious cult. 1430 01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,720 Did we have different perspectives? Yes. 1431 01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:57,760 But is this a reason to reach the gravity of the events you described? 1432 01:20:58,360 --> 01:20:59,560 Not at all. 1433 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,760 You're talking about an abuse of the colleagues from HR. 1434 01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:07,360 My colleagues respected all the deontological norms. 1435 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:11,840 Especially Eremia's affiliation to the religious cult. 1436 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,880 Those discussions were necessary for the cohesion of the whole team. 1437 01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,600 And especially to bring Eremia back on track. 1438 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,760 By no means can you categorize them as abuses. 1439 01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:24,680 And coming back for the thousand time at... 1440 01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:27,120 that cursed fire... 1441 01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,800 It was just a chain of unfavorable events. 1442 01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:31,800 I know it's hard for you to... 1443 01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,720 admit this, but sometimes such things happen. 1444 01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,560 Completely random and with harmful consequences. 1445 01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:41,200 So, the issue with my investigation is that I'm making up scenarios 1446 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,960 and that I can't accept the truth in front of me. 1447 01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,080 Sorry for calling them scenarios, but... 1448 01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,240 Yes, you have a problem in accepting the truth as it is. 1449 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,560 You're not alone. I also have this problem. 1450 01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,000 I relied on people like Eremia, to be with me on this journey. 1451 01:21:56,440 --> 01:22:00,000 To see how our work would eventually revolutionize the world. 1452 01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,560 But it wasn't meant to be like that. 1453 01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,880 He went on a different path and reached a point where 1454 01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,080 his religion was speaking for him. 1455 01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,760 And it's hard for me to admit that such a valuable person for our company 1456 01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:14,160 has come to disregard what we were doing here. 1457 01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:18,040 Including his work, for which he dedicated several years of his life. 1458 01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:19,520 But... 1459 01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:21,400 Theres nothing I can do. 1460 01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:23,680 I have to admit that it was my failure. 1461 01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:27,720 It was my failure that I couldn't keep Eremia in the team. 1462 01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:30,880 And in the end, 1463 01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:35,800 please understand that in this story we lost more than an employee. 1464 01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:38,400 What? 1465 01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:41,600 The insurance company 1466 01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:44,840 has already reimbursed you for all the damages. 1467 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:46,320 And you must have backups. 1468 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,240 Probably on Chinese terminals. 1469 01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:14,920 There aren't many documents to attest to what happened. 1470 01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,520 - There are these reprimands... - Mhm. 1471 01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,920 Realised by the Human Resources Department, 1472 01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:26,080 but they are in accordance with the current norms and laws. 1473 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,360 As far as the company's legality is concerned, 1474 01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,800 the company has an irreproachable past. 1475 01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,040 All taxes are paid on time, 1476 01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:38,880 salaries are according to employment contracts. 1477 01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:45,080 And unfortunately, only these things are of interest to the Romanian state. 1478 01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,080 Yah. And the investigation with the fire? 1479 01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,240 - The one related to Eremia's death? - Yes. 1480 01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:53,880 The investigation remains dismissed. 1481 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:58,320 It could indeed be reopened, but only by the Prosecutor's Office. 1482 01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:00,720 And the chances of this happening are... 1483 01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:03,000 are, unfortunately, almost zero. 1484 01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:07,240 So, there is no chance that this story will end up in court? 1485 01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:09,760 There is the option of a civil trial. 1486 01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:12,280 The family is suing the company. 1487 01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,120 You have these testimonies, they can be the base of a file. 1488 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:20,320 Yes, I've already spoken with them, and they can't afford the costs, of course. 1489 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,520 But would they have any chance of succeeding? 1490 01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,480 We have to understand that this is a corporation. 1491 01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,880 A corporation that can hire an entire floor of lawyers, 1492 01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:33,400 who will find all the loopholes, will drag things out, 1493 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:37,720 and postpone the process at every opportunity. 1494 01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:39,040 And then 1495 01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,520 the chances of finding a panel of judges who will give a favorable verdict 1496 01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,280 are extremely slim in such a case. 1497 01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:54,640 After speaking with all the parties involved, including the authorities, 1498 01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:58,880 I believe my investigation has reached a standstill. 1499 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,240 The discovery that the AI will be sold to an authoritarian government 1500 01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:05,560 doesn't interest anyone. 1501 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,960 Not even the abuses that take place in that company. 1502 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,680 I have some testimonies about which I am told 1503 01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,840 that they are only circumstantial evidence. 1504 01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,640 So, my theory, which, unfortunately, will only remain that, 1505 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:24,640 is that Eremia was pushed to the point where his morality 1506 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,920 drove him to take some foolish actions. 1507 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,600 The truth will remain hidden 1508 01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:34,400 under a stack of social media posts, 1509 01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:37,800 pompous press releases, 1510 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:42,960 and bureaucratic paperwork. 1511 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,800 An investigation by Gabriel Vânătoru 1512 01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:56,240 camera: Bogdan Mihalache 1513 01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,920 editing: Gabriel Vânătoru & Bogdan Mihalache 1514 01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,240 What are you doing? Are you filming this historical moment? 1515 01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:13,080 - Do you want anything else? - No, no. 1516 01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,280 Then I'll add the ending credits and we're done. 1517 01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:30,000 Done. 1518 01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:31,400 It's public. 1519 01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:32,760 From now on, good luck. 1520 01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,080 2,453! 1521 01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,600 Good. Very good! 1522 01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,520 42,000 and some small change. 1523 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,080 It's doing much better than the previous one. 1524 01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:59,080 Let's check what's trending. 1525 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:06,400 We are on the 8th place in trending! 1526 01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:10,440 That's it! It's gone viral! 1527 01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:12,400 At least our efforts weren't in vain. 1528 01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:17,520 Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! 1529 01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,480 What's this? 1530 01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:21,440 Come here for a moment. 1531 01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:24,720 Come here for a moment! Please! 1532 01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:27,480 Video unavailable. What is this? 1533 01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:29,920 - I don't know, man. - What is this? 1534 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:32,280 Did we do something wrong? 1535 01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,320 "Sorry, this page is..." 1536 01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:45,760 I can't believe this! 1537 01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:50,120 Go to your computer and check! Try incognito. 1538 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:53,000 God forbid! 1539 01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:00,920 I got an e-mail. 1540 01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,760 "Dear Gabriel, we regret to inform you that your account 1541 01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,680 has repeatedly violated the uploading guidelines of our platf..." 1542 01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:10,240 For fucks sake! 1543 01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:14,440 "After careful analysis, we have decided to permanently close your account. 1544 01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:17,040 This decision is irreversible." 1545 01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:18,680 I can't believe it! 1546 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,280 "Without any possibility..." Does it work for you? 1547 01:28:21,440 --> 01:28:23,120 No, I can't find anything. 1548 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:24,656 - Not even the account. - Incredibile. 1549 01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:26,600 "We encourage you to..." You encourage, my ass... 1550 01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:31,960 "Thank you for the time you spent on our platform." 1551 01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,440 Who has the power to do something like this? 1552 01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:43,240 So, they closed down all our accounts. 1553 01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,000 Shit! 127388

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