Original subtitles

This was just the beginning of it, right here.

We had a senior citizen shot.

I was informed by night watch detectives

that the victim was removed to Jamaica Hospital.

Joe Proce lived in this basement apartment.

He was a lonely, old, defenseless guy who was now fighting for his life.

The Seven-Five Precinct led the city.

Over 100 shootings a year.

But the strange thing on this one case, this note was there.

This cryptic, eerie note.

At the top is a circle with three symbols.

"This is the Zodiac."

"The 12 sign will die when the belts in the heaven are seen."

I thought, "Who the fuck are we dealing with?"

We had no idea of what was to come.

What was in front of us.

- Very nice suit, Mike. - Yes.

I have a very good tailor.

He sews my name in.

I grew up smack-dab in the middle of the Bronx.

I used to see cops on patrol in my neighborhood.

I liked the way they looked in uniform.

I was 17 years old when that yearbook came out.

Two months later, I put up my right hand, and I was sworn into the NYPD.

They wanted me to be an undercover in the vice squad.

And that's the stepping stone to my detective shield.

I wind up being the commanding officer of the Senior Citizens Robbery Unit.

That's where I was in 1990, the day Joe Proce was shot.

I've got an old man in the hospital, fighting for his life.

At the scene was clothes that were cut off the victim

so they can render medical aid to him.

I remember distinctly.

A detective picked up the coat,

and he shook it.

And...

...a lead round, a bullet,

fell down onto the concrete steps.

The bullet had passed through Joe Proce and had come to rest in his heavy coat.

Once we were able to interview him, he said he was out for his nightly walk.

The guy followed him.

He told him, "Get away from me. I don't have any money."

And that's when he was shot.

It was dark.

His eyesight was not good.

He couldn't tell us what the perpetrator looked like.

So it wasn't really helpful.

Guns are unique. There's lands and grooves inside.

So you can match it that this bullet was fired from this... this firearm.

In this particular case, the bullet didn't have any unique markings on it.

No lands and grooves.

He was using a zip gun.

A crude, homemade gun.

It's basically a length of pipe.

There's a rubber band, like a slingshot, with a nail in it.

Zip gun.

They're impossible to trace.

It's just a piece of plumbing.

The note was reminiscent of the famous San Francisco Zodiac.

In the late '60s, he taunted the police and the press with cryptic notes.

And I know he killed a lot of people.

He had never been caught.

As far as we knew, he was still out there.

So we sent our New York Zodiac notes to the crime lab in San Francisco

to make a comparison against.

Ballistics is telling us there's nothing to identify firearm used.

"Oh shit."

I call the lab to see if they can tell us anything.

"Okay, there's no fingerprints on this note."

"Oh shit."

Days are passing. We're not catching a break.

And you have to appreciate, resources went to the homicides.

The Seven-Five Precinct were inundated with homicides.

It was like the ocean. The waves just kept comin' in.

And at that point, we didn't know there were others.

So, I got a call from the detective in Brooklyn.

"Mike, there's a note here,

and it looks like the note we found at the Proce scene a couple of weeks ago."

There it was. "This is the Zodiac."

Another note.

I said, "How'd you get this?"

He says, "This New York Post reporter got this mailed to the Post,

and she sent it to us."

The handwriting was spot-on.

And in this one, he wrote,

"All shoot in Brooklyn with .380 RNL or nine millimeter."

"No grooves on bullet."

And it's something that only the shooter knows.

And then I noticed,

"On May 31st, white old man with cane. Shoot in front of house."

This is Joe Proce.

But there's also two other shootings preceding Joe Proce

that we're totally unaware of.

So now we're checking all shootings that may have coincided

with these dates and times.

We find two that match with the shootings he's claiming responsibility for.

Orozco worked in a restaurant in Manhattan.

He had a disability where he walked with a limp.

And he got shot in the back.

He told us the shooter wore a mask.

And after he was down, the shooter stood over him

and put the gun to his head.

But didn't fire.

Montenegro was very drunk.

And he was an easy target.

Might have been down and out for the count before he was assaulted.

Again, couldn't provide a description.

This guy's a serial shooter.

And he thinks he killed 'em, but all three survived.

We then realized his drawings on the pie slice

coincides with the three correct astrological signs

of the first three victims.

Orozco, Montenegro, Proce.

He had the Taurus, he had the Scorpio, and he had the Gemini.

He was three for three.

Now, I'm thinking there's 12 signs.

He's got a game plan, and his intent is to carry it out.

How do we get this guy before there are more?

Again, that note is brought down to the lab

to try to get latent fingerprints off it.

Were there prints on this?

Answer? No.

So he probably wore gloves.

At that point, I got a call from the detectives in San Francisco,

and they let us know, "This is a copycat."

"This is not our Zodiac."

The handwriting didn't match up at all.

This didn't help us one bit.

He writes about Orion, the Seven Sisters, the belts in the heaven.

So it was an aspect of this investigation

that required some thought outside the proverbial box.

ABC mark.

People called us things.

They called us the Devil Desk. They called it the Voodoo Team.

Sorry. We have to just turn the air-conditioning off.

So, Larry was part of that team

who was looking into astrology, astronomy, witchcraft.

Okay? Good.

All the offbeat stuff, y'know.

Thanks for sending us your pictures from when you were younger.

Oh yeah. A lot younger.

I grew up in Brooklyn.

Oh, there was some in the school

that their relatives were mobbed-up people.

And they bragged about it.

And it was something that always turned me off.

I mean, my family, you stayed within the law.

That's why when I went into the police department, eventually,

I went into the Organized Crime Control Bureau.

But having an Italian last name kinda branded you.

Like, "We got enough of them on the other side."

"We don't need them on this side of the desk."

But then, there were other people who used it as a crutch to cry about.

"Oh yeah. Because I'm Italian, I didn't get that."

No, that's not the case.

"You didn't get it because you're not good enough."

When I was called in, there were three of us

in the Major Case Squad who had worked in the Intelligence Division previously.

And this was totally out of the realm of that.

We had three shootings, and these notes came in.

They were very detailed, with times and dates and zodiac signs.

We created a chart with the dates of the shootings.

Okay.

We had March 8th.

March 29th.

And May 31st.

What we could see was a 21-day cycle being followed here.

We found out that the Parks Department had a very prestigious astronomer.

He laid it out.

We found out that on March 8th,

three specific constellations were visible at the time of the shooting.

Seven Sisters,

Taurus,

and Orion.

March 29th. All three were visible at the time of the shooting.

The next two 21-day periods, the stars were not in the sky at the same time.

No shootings.

On May 31st, the third shooting.

At 2:04 a.m., all the stars were in the sky.

So we asked him, "Give us the next 21 days."

"Let's just see what's goin' on."

June 21st. All three will be visible.

All the arrows were pointing towards June 21st,

between 1:00 and 4:00 in the morning.

It's never been done before.

Where you were able to actually predict when a shooting was gonna take place

within a couple of hours.

And we explained it to the chief. Chief Borrelli.

He thought we were nuts.

He said, "No one can predict when a shooting's gonna take place."

So he said, "Do you really believe that?"

We told him, "Well, we don't have to believe it."

"The person who's doing it believes it."

When Larry said,

"He's gonna shoot again, Chief," Chief Borrelli looked at me.

He says, "I'm gonna give you all the resources you need."

I got on the phone to the New York Post.

And I said, "Please do not put this out."

"When we get this guy, I'm gonna give you an exclusive."

But... next morning, front page, New York Post.

The new note and everything.

They gotta sell papers, but it did make our job a lot harder.

Now they'd publicized the actual note,

we had nothing to keep close to the vest.

Somewhere in New York City is a killer who calls himself Zodiac,

choosing victims by their astrological signs.

If any individual approaches them in any fashion,

um, and the subject gets around to the date of birth,

to be extremely careful.

And we would like to know about any incident like that that's happened.

So, on June 21st, Operation Watchdog was put into effect.

And we'd put together an all-star team.

The best detectives from the best squads.

And so, this one guy came in.

And I looked at him because he didn't look like, uh, your conventional detective.

Louie Savarese looked like a Hells Angel guy

instead of an NYPD homicide detective.

This is ABC mark. Louie, take one. Mark.

Well, got my friends' names on here. My friend Buckets. He's dead.

Brian. He got killed on 9/11.

On my back, I have, uh, faces of, uh, serial killers.

I got Manson, Charlie Manson. Berkowitz.

Got John Wayne Gacy, the clown.

And the theme was "evil that men do."

Without police, you have anarchy. Are you kiddin' me?

I mean, you're fightin' bad guys, y'know?

Part of my life, y'know? So that's why I did it, y'know.

A part of my life.

Tonight investigators from the Zodiac task force

will be at the phones in their command post

and on the streets throughout the city in force.

Tonight falls within his 21-day cycle of violence.

That night, they put people together from individual precincts,

and we hunted the streets.

But now you've gotta say, it's... "We canvassed the streets." You know? So...

But we were huntin'. I was huntin'. Y'know?

We hoped to be able to scoop him up

before someone else was shot.

That would've been the perfect, perfect scenario.

One guy walkin' the street, "I'd like to speak."

"What's up?" Ba-ba-boom.

Who we lookin' for? Nobody knows.

It could be a Black guy, a white guy, a... a Spanish guy.

We tossed, questioned, and frisked everybody who moved.

And we did that hundreds of times that night.

Now they would consider it a gross violation of civil rights.

Back then, it was a little faster. It was a little looser.

Lookin' to get this trash off the street,

you gotta be what you gotta be when life is on the line.

And that's the way it was.

Well, the time came and left, and there were no shootings.

The streets were empty, so they called it off by four o'clock.

And we head over, back to the 102 Precinct.

Nothin' happened.

Nothing happened.

We were wrong. And they put all that money and time into it.

We were in for a world of hurtin' outta that.

Nothing left to do but go back to the barn,

sign the overtime slips.

It was frustrating.

It was very frustrating.

Then I get a phone call from a detective.

"Central Park Precinct's on the phone for you."

He said, "You didn't get anybody

up in, uh, Queens and Brooklyn tonight, did you?"

I said, "No." He says, "You know why?"

"Because he just shot somebody in Central Park."

"Son of a bitch!"

And it was like getting punched in the stomach.

Punched in the solar plexus. Like...

Borrelli gives us a wave.

"Here's my guys. These guys are the ones. They told us when it was gonna happen."

It felt really good.

Not that somebody got shot, but the fact that we knew we were right.

Then he says, "Look, guys, next time, you gotta get me the location."

A bench south of the Central Park Bandshell,

site of the fourth, and most recent, of the shootings

the so-called Zodiac Killer has taken credit for.

Larry Parham, the latest victim,

was an African-American homeless man,

sleeping on a park bench.

We're told, so far, he's alive.

The round passed right through him. One shot. Body shot.

It went through Parham's sternum, and they recovered the bullet

out of the, uh, park bench.

Larry Parham could provide no description of the shooter

because he was asleep when he got shot.

But the real find at this crime scene was the note.

He had his circle and crosshairs on the top,

and he's got a fourth pie slice in there, which is Cancer.

We checked out Larry Parham's date of birth.

And again,

he was right because Larry Parham was, in fact, a Cancer.

We still didn't know how the shooter knew the astrological sign of his victims.

That was baffling.

So now, four victims.

He's four for four.

There's eight more people until he fills in the pie chart.

He's tryin' to throw all this bullshit at us.

Latin, constellations.

And he's just gonna go out and shoot somebody else.

This guy's serious.

He's as serious as a heart attack.

Tonight, the so-called Zodiac gunman

is one step closer to fulfilling his deadly promise.

One of his victims has died.

78-year-old Joseph Proce died this morning

at Jamaica Hospital in Queens.

Now the manhunt has turned into a homicide investigation.

The Zodiac Shooter was now the Zodiac Killer.

That amped up the intensity.

The public was even more nervous.

Nobody wanted to become the next victim.

Chief Borrelli put a task force together

on a permanent basis.

This was the main office in which 50 detectives worked.

It was like the line from the movie.

"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

And that's what Chief Borrelli gave us.

It was a beehive of activity back then.

Guys were calling it the War Room

because we had the maps and we had the blackboard.

It was like a telethon.

"Zodiac task force. How can I help you?"

My job was to coordinate the investigation.

"You guys go to Brooklyn and check this out."

"You guys go up to the Bronx and talk to this woman."

We went to all parts of the five boroughs.

There was a lot of pressure on us because the press was all over it.

People in the city of New York were scared shitless.

We don't go to the park anymore.

We don't even be on Jamaica Avenue, near the park.

If he can outsmart police, he can outsmart his victims.

This cycle can go on for a long time.

After the first cycle, 21 days after Parham,

he's gonna shoot again.

Well, we've gotta be ready.

This guy is writing crazy stuff in his notes.

And so far, he was eluding us.

So Larry started looking into witchcraft and looking into black magic

to see if it could help catch this guy before he kills all 12.

He signs this one "Faust."

Faust was a 16th-century magician,

and he sold his soul to the devil for knowledge.

The upside-down cross with the 666, it's all satanic.

So I went and met with the Warlock.

Herman Slater was well-known in the occult community.

A warlock is a male witch.

Well, let me introduce you to Herman.

The store had ceremonial robes, sacrificial daggers, candles, and books.

He told us, "You have to get The Book of the Law by Aleister Crowley."

That this was followers of Crowley that were doing the shootings.

Aleister Crowley was an English witch.

He died in 1947, and he has followers all over the world.

And Slater says, "I don't carry that stuff."

"I don't touch his... his works."

Then he said, "If you even say their name,

if they know that you know their name, they will kill you."

Excuse me.

Uh, there are other groups...

that are very dangerous.

They're into drugs. They're into ritual murder.

That's when I started gettin' freaked out.

Because we knew we were dealing with some very strange people at that point.

I knew a couple of other occult stores in the area.

Nobody had the book.

I went up to the Central Research Library on 5th Avenue.

Got the book.

Went, sat down.

And the book opened automatically.

There was a note inside.

"White devil" and a lightning bolt.

In that moment, I was afraid.

I took my gun, loosened it up in my belt.

A lot of it has to do with takin' slaves for the afterlife.

It says, "Strike down the wretched and the weak."

"Strike hard, strike low."

In the Zodiac case, no one was shot in the head or above the shoulder.

"The sacrifice is greatest when it's known by many

but understood by only the chosen few."

Larry worked his ass off to see if it could help

in some way, shape, or form.

Just how did Larry's research help the investigation?

It gave us a little bit more insight as to who we were dealing with.

Like, we were trying everything, y'know?

My wife noticed a difference in my appearance.

My skin was getting, like, ashened in color a bit.

I got to the point where I wouldn't go home directly.

I would get off the parkway, maybe an exit or two early,

circle the block a few times, just to make sure I wasn't being followed.

I never did that when I worked on the Mob.

They were violent people and everything else,

but, yeah, you knew what you were dealing with.

This, here, you didn't know.

The occult things, that kinda stuck with you a bit.

Then suddenly, we get a break.

I got a call from the lab.

We've got fingerprint evidence from the Larry Parham letter.

Somewhere on the side, there was an index with 15 points of identification on it.

But... we didn't have computers in these days.

So we just couldn't, y'know,

look through a database to see if anything coincided.

And I always said, he's gonna jump over a turnstile.

He's gonna be a fare-beater.

Cop'll grab him.

He's gonna get fingerprinted, and bang, we have a match.

We'll get him on some fluke like that.

But until you get the right guy, match it, you don't have shit.

Every detective wanted to catch the Zodiac Killer.

Every man in that task force was living, breathing.

But we're basically spinning our wheels.

He brings a new danger to New York City's nights.

This Zodiac, who comes out after dark in 21-day cycles.

So once again, we put a lot of detectives on the street,

hunting for this guy.

After Parham, now, we have to expand the zone.

We're spreading a little bit thinner because we have to cover more area.

We had to be concerned with Manhattan, the millions of citizens.

The sun came up. Past the window of opportunity.

He didn't shoot anybody.

Nothing happened. Negative results.

During the Zodiac case, I probably did two packs a day.

I didn't want to go on vacation with my family

because I didn't want to miss a day tryin' to track this guy down.

Y'know, I think any cop regrets

not spending more time with his... his family.

But, um, we're doing what we love to do.

Well, every 21 days,

communications would put out to all the sector cars,

"Everyone on patrol, Operation Watchdog is in effect."

I think there was a total of three or four more Operation Watchdogs.

There was no action.

He was no longer the hunter. He was the hunted.

He crawled under the rock from whence he came, and he stayed there.

Another Thursday morning has passed, and the Zodiac has not hit.

So the speculation grows as to if he ever will.

It had been three months with no activity.

And we never matched anyone

to the Zodiac prints on the Larry Parham letter.

This guy disappeared. Where is he? Is he dead? We don't know.

And really, that's... that pissed me off. Y'know?

But people got away. People get away with murder.

The task force was disbanded at the end of November of 1990.

Navy Yard was cleaned out, and everybody went back to their respective commands.

We just didn't catch the right break.

Well, it was frustrating. Yeah. Yeah.

More so than any other case.

It was shortly after that that I retired.

I decided it was my time to go.

Was it a failure?

Hell yeah. It was a failure.

'92, I retired from the NYPD.

But I left with unfinished business, I always felt, in the pit of my stomach.

I was devastated at the end of the day that we didn't... we didn't have him.

On August 3, 1994, I was a sergeant in the Seven-Five detective squad

in East New York, Brooklyn.

The NYPD deputy commissioner contacted me,

and they said, "Listen, the New York Post received a letter

from somebody identifying himself as the Zodiac."

"He's claiming that he shot people in your precinct, in your command."

"Sleep, my little dead. How we loathe them."

We got 101, take one. Mark.

My nickname is Pork Chop, and I got it because, uh, I like to eat.

Uh, you know. That's the only reason.

I was the, uh, fifth child in my family.

My oldest brother, John, was a New York City homicide detective.

I always looked up to him. I wanted to be a detective too.

Not just a cop but a detective.

I have the fever, crime fever.

Although I wasn't involved in the Zodiac case

during his first series of events,

I followed it closely in the media.

I got excited because I never thought I would get to try and solve it.

It's been more than four years since the New York murderer

who killed by the stars was last heard from.

Now a newspaper has received a chilling letter

from a person claiming to be the Zodiac Killer.

Has the Zodiac attacker returned?

On the right, he listed five incidents of violence.

So the first thing that I do,

I started to research the crimes that he was taking credit for.

First one is from August 10, 1992.

Female, white, stabbed and shot in Highland Park.

That was Patricia Fonti.

She was stabbed over 100 times.

And we found no indication that she was shot, but she could have been.

There were so many marks on her body.

Jim Weber.

The Zodiac shot him, then hopped the fence and fled into a nearby cemetery.

And he survived.

Joseph Diacone was a homeless individual.

He was shot in the back of the neck and bled out instantly.

Diane Ballard was shot one time in the neck.

And she survived.

There was a fifth victim, June 11, 1994.

We did a very thorough search of the park.

Cadaver dogs, helicopters.

We could not locate that victim.

Two of them were homicides. Two were nonfatal.

The NYPD was not able to connect the second series of attacks

to the first series

because there was over 2,300 homicides a year in the city in those years,

and thousands and thousands of nonfatal shootings.

So nine victims, Zodiac, and zero next to the NYPD.

He's taunting the police.

Through lookin' at the evidence, the handwriting, the victims,

we knew we were dealin' with

the same killer that had impacted New York City two years prior.

But his MO had changed.

He got away from the pie signs with the zodiac symbols.

We didn't know why he stopped takin' credit

for birth signs on his victims.

The flags threw me off a little bit.

But military people, Navy people,

recognized these flags to be maritime flags.

And they were able to break the code fairly quickly.

When it's decoded, it says,

"This is the Zodiac speaking. I am in control."

"There will be more. Yours truly."

So, the NYPD formed a second task force.

I was one of the supervisors.

And there were some detectives that worked on the first task force,

including Louie Savarese.

He's thin now compared to what he was, and I still call him Pork Chop.

So...

Ah.

Second task force, we had the fingerprint from Parham.

We had the bullets. We had evidence.

But we still didn't have a face. We didn't have a... a... a body.

We didn't have the computer technology at the time that we have now.

There was no databases for us to get a match.

The earlier assaults and murders occurred in, like, a five-square block area.

I refer to it as his first comfort zone.

Then he had an event in Central Park, where Larry Parham was shot.

And his second comfort zone is all in Highland Park.

So we devised a plan to go a mile each way, east, west, north, and south,

in the center of the two comfort zones.

And we ran every address for criminal histories

of people who reside in those addresses.

We came up with a number of 4,500.

So we went up to the Latent Print Unit, and we told 'em,

"We're requesting manual examination of these 4,500 fingerprints

to that one partial fingerprint from the Larry Parham letter."

They agreed to do it, but it was gonna take a long time.

It was a lot of work, a lot of long hours.

We truly believed that the fingerprint evidence

would identify Zodiac and capture him.

In my heart of hearts, I felt they were going to get a match.

When I went to bed, I put the, uh, beeper on my pajamas on vibrate mode.

'Cause I don't wanna wake my wife in the middle of the night.

I knew it was gonna go off.

But it never went off.

I was always disappointed we were unable to match anybody

to that fingerprint from the letter.

But you deal with it. You have to live with it. And... so...

We continued workin' other leads and workin' the case, you know?

But it was always in the back of my mind.

Fortunately, we didn't get any fresh bodies or fresh shootings.

But it was now a cold case that... that we were working.

After nine months, he was basically like a ghost in the city.

And we had no clue who he was. We had no idea who he was.

Just like, uh, déjà vu.

The second task force is, well, over. It's windin' down.

No body.

No perpetrator.

That bothered me. That bothered me a lot. Y'know?

I gave it the best I had, y'know?

That's what they were payin' me for.

If I can't get ya, good luck.

I went back to the Seven-Five squad.

An opportunity came to become a hostage negotiator.

And I took the course.

But I knew in my heart that the Zodiac would come back

and that he would shoot again and kill again.

It's in his blood. It's the way he is.

It was June 18, 1996.

There was a hostage job in the Seven-Five Precinct.

I was nervous because this was my first hostage negotiation job.

An individual had shot his sister

and is holding her boyfriend hostage.

They told me his name was Eddie.

I'm sayin', "Eddie, we don't want you getting hurt."

"None of us wanna get hurt. Enough blood has been shed."

Enough blood's been shed.

And this went on for at least an hour, an hour and a half.

Finally, he says, "I'm ready to surrender."

I was proud as a peacock, because the bosses,

they were pattin' me on the back. "Good job," all that stuff.

So I was very satisfied that I didn't blow it

because they don't always go good.

So now, they take him back to the station house.

And I went back to the scene.

The bomb squad had removed two pipe bombs, fully constructed,

that he had in the apartment.

I'm at the scene, I'm talkin' to the bomb squad guys,

and three detectives came right to the corner here,

and they hand me the confession.

Eddie confessed to shooting his sister, to holding her boyfriend hostage.

So, I'm reading it.

And I'm... I'm readin'.

I actually had a physical reaction.

And it was kinda like my blood pressure went down like 40, 50 points.

The first thing I did, I called Louie Savarese.

I said, "Louie, get in here. We got him."

Pork Chop says, "It looks like my wife's shoppin' list."

That's how familiar the lettering was.

The S's, the T's, and the M's.

You know, I knew the handwriting from all the letters that I'd studied

for the last two years workin' the Zodiac case.

I was shocked when I seen him in the interview room.

It was a kid.

Y'know, I didn't expect him to be that, y'know?

His name was actually Heriberto. Eddie was a nickname.

Heriberto Seda.

First thing I said to him...

"You're the Zodiac, and I've been lookin' for you for six years."

He said, "I'm not the Zodiac."

All he wanted to talk about was his Bible. Evil and good.

We laid out the fingerprints. We laid out the handwriting analysis.

Again, "No, no."

So, uh, we get to Fonti's pictures.

That was the gruesomest scene we had. Fonti's.

And we put 'em on the wall.

Now he's lookin'. It's right in front of him.

And his eyes are goin' back and forth.

And we're talkin' to him. Y'know, "Look what you did."

Then I see the vein in his neck, and, boom, pounding.

And at that point there, he gave it up.

He says, "Okay. I'll tell youse what happened."

And he starts off with Patricia Fonti.

And he confessed in order.

Mario, German, Proce, Parham, Diacone, Weber, Ballard.

Number nine, we never found.

And then, when you hit the space bar, it'll start.

Okay.

After going over evidence,

the jury decided this man is indeed the Zodiac Killer

that terrorized the city from 1990 to 1994.

It was a very big moment for me, a very proud moment.

And I was very proud to have Louie walkin' next to me.

Are you the Zodiac?

I'm a little embarrassed at that stuff sometimes.

Like I'm a big oak, y'know what I mean? I don't know.

I thank God I was fortunate to be part of it

from the beginning to the end, y'know?

They got him.

I'd be lying if I told you I didn't long to be part of it.

To be at the scene.

He was a punk from start to finish.

He was just a punk.

We never found out how he got the signs of the people he shot.

We played every angle, and there was no... no rhyme or reason for it.

God knows how he found out.

I had room on my arm here.

That's the symbol that the Zodiac in California used.

Eddie Seda was a copycat. Y'know?

And part of my life.

It easily could've been another hostage negotiator.

It was almost like fate that it all came together in that way.

Was it written in the stars? I don't know. Y'know?

But I believe in God. There's a heaven and a hell. So...

He's in jail.

That's the way I look at it.