Original subtitles

Hello, I'm calling from the trip.

I'd like to... How much money was... Was it over $1 ,000?

Was it over $10 ,000?

Hey, listen, I'm the guy that claimed that, and I'm not bothered at all.

20 million people are going to see this, Eddie.

Now, listen, the doctor wants you to take it easy.

So just go on home, and I'll get there as soon as I can, okay?

Okay?

Bye -bye now.

Mr. Danis?

Yeah. I'm very sorry about what happened.

Yeah, yeah.

I apologize about approaching you at a bad time.

My name is Billy Newman. I'm from the Tribune.

What?

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you just a few questions.

Are you crazy?

Haven't you done enough already?

Get out of here.

I'm sorry. I know this isn't the best time to talk.

You did this.

You reporters.

You made us lose our baby.

You lie, you distort things just to make your news.

You have the nerve to come around here now.

Why don't you just get out of here?

Mr. Daniels, I'm sorry. Did you hear me? I said get out of here!

What?

Some guy in Encino hauled his ex -wife into court for car abuse.

Car abuse?

What's that?

On a divorce settlement, she got custody of the Rolls Royce. He claimed that she

abused the car by loading it with houseplants and fertilizer.

Maybe she was landscaping.

The judge awarded him joint custody. If he gets the car during the week, he gets

it on weekends and holidays.

Thanks a lot, Art.

That was really unfair, you know.

What'd I do?

You asked me to go over to the Sisters of Mercy Hospital and check on Monica

Daniels. You said only if you had time. I had time, but you didn't warn me that

her accident was caused by a story in a scandal sheet.

What?

She saw this and you got her so upset. I said that she cracked up her car.

She had a miscarriage.

Eddie Daniels was just about out of his mind, and I don't blame him.

They suggest here that she was having an affair with a photographer who was the

real father of her baby.

Daniels blew up at me. I thought he was going to take a swing at me like he did

when he broke his racket at the U .S. Open last year.

Scientists create all white meat chicken.

Are you married to an extraterrestrial?

Lose six pounds while you sleep.

Can I borrow that when you're through with it?

Is that Janet Hart?

Yeah.

That's a lousy picture of her. Like they got her when she was sneezing.

Janet Hart. Boy, she was in some great pictures.

Remember the one she was in with Jimmy Stewart?

It's a wonderful town with a wonderful life.

That was Donna Reed.

Who's it got against her?

She's suing them for an article that they ran on her three months ago.

It seems that before she became everyone's favorite mom on TV, they say

was an entertainer in Vegas, and she entertained men on the side.

Oh, Janet Hart.

No kidding.

No. Do you see what happens?

They start these ridiculous rumors. There are always going to be people who

think that Monica Daniels was sleeping around and that Eddie is not the father

of her kid.

Who? Monica Daniels. Really?

Oh!

I'm really intrigued with this.

You are intrigued by this junk?

I'm intrigued that people read this junk.

This junk has more readers than Time or Newsweek.

There's a great story here.

Where?

Out here.

Here. When I go out there. Yeah.

Yeah, they're confusing the public about who's a legitimate reporter and who's a

creep. I'd love to nail those guys.

And I would love to approach Eddie and Monica Daniels again, if only to

apologize.

Okay, follow up on Janet Hart. See if that Vegas story is true.

Rossi, what I want you to find out... Before you get into that, you know I'm

trying to run down my leads on that foster parents scam?

Well, that source I've been working on down in City Hall, he's about ready to

crack. Crack him later. I want you to find out who's behind the spectator.

You can start by turning over a rock.

I don't know.

What's the matter, Charlie?

I'm concerned about taking on these spectator people.

You're poking a bear.

Who hit them?

They're going to hit back.

So why go after the spectator with a lawsuit?

Because they said that the woman who plays dear, kind Molly Fletcher used to

a hooker.

That makes the network nervous. Makes my producer nervous.

And it makes me madder than hell. That's why.

I thought that in your business there was no such thing as bad publicity.

You just don't hear about the people that bad publicity does in.

They could cancel my show.

In the olden days, the studio publicity mills used to turn a milkshake with a co

-star into a torrid romance.

That doesn't sound so bad.

Well, they weren't as vicious as the spectators.

You know, being a starlet in Cotton and Affair is one thing.

But when you're everybody's favorite mom and they call you a prostitute, that's

another. So this is a business decision?

No, it's very personal.

I have two little granddaughters who happen to think I'm very special.

I want the record cleared for this.

That brings me to another question.

This is awkward, but I have to ask you something.

Oh, dear.

Were you a dancer in Las Vegas at the time mentioned in The Spectator?

Yes, yes.

And did you at that time?

No, honey, I didn't.

I was 17.

I'd just come out from Minnesota. I was living with my mother.

I didn't even kiss boys on the first date.

And don't you print that either.

There, you're mine.

Oh, right.

Well, that's my wheatgrass story, isn't it?

You want to take responsibility for it?

That sounds crazy, I know, but it's getting to be a big deal. You see,

take this wheatgrass, which has nothing to do with wheat. I mean, it's just a

grass. And they squeeze it, they grind it, or shake it up, and they turn it

a liquid or a powder.

What do they do with it? Oh, everything. You can eat it, you can drink it, or

you can squirt it on any part of your body that isn't working at the time.

People swear by it.

Do you ever try it?

I just rant about stuff a little.

How long have you been on the health beat?

Six years now, I think it is.

Doesn't all that stuff you learn about worry you?

You smoke, you eat junk, you don't exercise.

I think somebody has to set a bad example, Lou.

City desk.

Hey, Lou, I'm going to be back early. I've got an interview with the

publisher in ten minutes.

That was quick.

Yeah, no problem. The guy's really accessible.

No, why shouldn't he be?

I just figured he'd be pretty busy.

Why? It doesn't take as long to make up stories as it does to go out and cover

them. Where are you now?

I'm at a pay phone right near his office.

Does he really have an office, or does he just operate out of a post office

No, no, he's got a real office.

I'll see you later, Lou.

Come on in, Joe.

Hi, I'm George Lester. Hello. Glad to meet you.

Sit down.

Oh, I'll tell you what, don't sit here. Listen over here, it's a little more

comfortable.

Can I get you anything?

No, thanks.

You're from the Tribune, huh? That's right.

Didn't I hear that Lou Grant went over there as city editor?

You know Lou Grant? Oh, sure. We're old friends.

How's he doing?

Lou Grant will continue in a moment here on A &E.

You don't mind if I take this, do you?

No, no, not at all.

You don't mind if I take this?

No.

So, how do you know Lou Grant?

Well, we worked on the same newspaper in St. Louis. Didn't he mention it?

No.

He was just starting out.

Raw. Very raw.

Stumbled his way through stories. I suppose he's learned a few tricks since

then, huh?

Yeah, one or two.

Well, anyway, say hello for me.

I will.

Okay, I'm curious about how the National Spectator got its start.

Excuse me.

Yeah, okay. Put him through.

Sorry, I have to take this. London.

How'd you do?

Oh, that isn't anything at all. If Jackie's going to Athens, then you go to

Athens. No, no, no, no. Don't wait for a commercial flight charter or jet. We'll

pick up the tab.

Good luck.

Sorry.

That's okay.

The spectator's done very well.

Can we back up a little bit and you can fill me in on how you got started?

Well, I tell you, I was wasting away in St. Louis.

Moving up the rung very, very slowly. And then I hooked up with this podunk

paper in Florida that needed a managing editor. They wanted stories on

retirement homes, fishing rights, the geriatric beat, you know.

I'll tell you, there we were, just outside of Miami with all that glamour

action. So I started a snappy little entertainment section that tripled their

circulation in six months. You're doing so well. How come you left?

The publisher felt threatened trying to ease me out, you see. So I fooled him.

I moved west and took the whole entertainment staff with me.

Yeah, then we went national. I was one of the first people to think of getting

distributed in the supermarkets.

And then we expanded our coverage, and five years later, well... Pretty

impressive. Thank you.

The main gratification for me is that now I can do stories that can really do

some good.

Stories that do good?

Well, we're about to get an award from a...

a senior citizens group down in Florida. One of our stories helped reunite a

missing 83 -year -old man with his family.

Isn't that kind of untypical for you?

No, no, not at all.

These are all from people saying thank you for similar stories.

Yeah, but these aren't the stories that really sell your paper.

Well, we're proud of our medical section and...

Our consumer rip -off problems. We've saved millions of people many more

millions of dollars.

Yes, but that still isn't the kind of material that put the National Spectator

on the map.

Well, excuse me.

Yes?

Well, okay, but just for a minute. I'm with someone.

Yeah, Jake?

No, it's Friday. I told you I can't.

I don't care who's there. I don't need Henry Kissinger.

That's it, Jake.

So?

Okay, but in between all those wonderful human interest stories, you do like to

sprinkle in a little Saxon gossip.

That's only part of what we do.

The story on Jenna Hart, the stuff on Eddie and Monica

Daniels, those were front page headlines, weren't they? Yes, they were.

The story on Congressman Webster's wife, the dry -out farm in Colorado, running

naked down a blacktop road.

That was good for three straight issues, wasn't it?

You didn't come in here with an open mind, did you?

Sure I did.

No, you didn't.

You had no intention of seriously discussing the entire spectator story,

you?

Frankly, your public service awards were not my main interest.

You're out to get us, aren't you?

Mr. Lester, that's your interpretation.

The interview was over.

Billy Newman.

Monica Daniels. Oh, Mrs.

Daniels. I'm glad you called. I'm sorry about the other day.

No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry about the way Eddie talked to you. If you'd like it in

your room, I can't leave the house, but... I could come there.

I'm at Hancock Park.

Thank you.

Eddie's really going to be angry that I'm talking to you. But I know there are

people who are going to believe what they read in that magazine.

I just want to say that some are reputable.

that Eddie was the father of our baby.

Do you have any idea why the spectator would print something like that?

They don't need a reason.

I know that after we announced our engagement, it became a big thing.

You know the perfect couple.

Tennis star to a merry fashion model.

I even think the Tribune ran a story on us.

Why did you talk to them? Why did you grant an interview?

We didn't.

We wouldn't. And that's what made them mad.

So they made up interviews.

Things we were supposed to have said about each other.

It's hard enough being married or trusting without all that suggestion and

innuendo.

Did you ever demand a retraction?

Billy, people like that don't retract.

People like that climb over your fence at night and go through your garbage.

You don't mean that, literally.

Oh, yes, I do. I don't know how else they could have gotten a hold of some of

the stuff they printed.

You know, the kind of things that you pitch in the trash.

Old bills, notes from friends, letters that you start to write but never

And they started ending up in the spectator? Yeah.

And if the stuff they scrounged up wasn't hot enough, they'd fill in the

Are you planning on suing?

I'm just so exhausted.

I don't know. They're just so big.

I don't think you can win.

George Lester says you and you went way back.

I know a Gonzo Lester in Detroit.

George Lester in St.

Louis. Ah, geez.

George Lester?

You didn't know. Why didn't you tell me that before I saw you?

Because you never gave me the guy's name.

And even if you had, I never made the connection.

I can't imagine George Lester being a publisher or anything.

Well, he is, and he's doing rather well at it. Yeah?

He was bright, but real sloppy and greedy.

He'd load himself up with assignments, and he'd pay people to ghostwrite

freelance magazine articles for him. It's funny. He speaks well of you.

I'll bet.

I like another view of the guy.

Who? George Lester, publisher of The Spectator.

An old pal of Lou's.

There's got to be a lot of people that know George Lester.

We've even got one here at the paper.

Who? Jerry Hollister. He used to write for The Spectator.

What did he write? The Hell Food Beat?

No. He was Holly's comment, the astrological forecaster, and Dr. Gloria

the diet lady.

Hey, Jerry.

Remind me to tell Charlie that I know the publisher of The Spectator. I'm

working out a memo. I'll throw it in.

Yeah, I will.

Oh, sorry.

I hear you used to work for George Lester.

Oh, I did.

Probably some years ago.

Why do you ask?

You know, we're doing a story on the spectator, and we can use some help.

I was just a freelancer, Lou. I ground out a few columns, made a few bucks.

Jerry, you must know somebody who'd open up to us. They try to get to Lester

Spiegel, but they won't talk. They're very loyal.

Yeah, well, a lot of people find him a good guy to work for.

He pays well.

Is there anybody who might talk?

Now, let's see who knows him best. Damien Fox.

They're very tight. They've been together for years. Oh, but then there's

Whitcomb.

Now, he's your best bet. What's his story?

Well, I think he quit a few months back.

He and Lester had an ego collision.

Does he know anything?

Oh, everything. He was one of Lester's hot shots.

I had him away from the London Daily Mirror.

You know, those English tabloid guys, they really know how to sling the mud

very, very nasty.

Yeah. He'd know all the inside stuff.

Where can we find him?

I think he's got a place on the beach.

Do you think he'll talk?

The problem will be getting him to stop.

Oh, I'm sorry.

We just differ in philosophy, Miss Newman. In England, we believe there's a

place for a newspaper like the Manchester Guardian, but we prefer our

alternative. Which is?

Quite simply, we like to have fun with news.

Fun.

Certainly. See, people's lives are basically boring.

I mean, when a man comes home from work after a hard day, does he want to relax

in his easy chair, open the newspaper and be hammered with news of the rotten

economy or world hunger? Certainly not.

He wants to be entertained, teased, seduced, shocked.

I think people raked over the coals.

Why not if they deserve it? I mean, somebody's got to take on the giants.

But regardless of who they are, should they be victimized by distortions and

different versions of the truth?

Oh, it's not different versions of the truth, Miss Newman.

What is it then?

Lies.

And George Lester is a very inventive liar.

Now, speaking for myself, I've never had to resort to such tactics. I've always

been able to dig up all the dirt I wanted without any difficulty. It's not

if one knows where to look.

But it's easier to fabricate.

So much.

And Lester prefers it that way?

Yes, yes. He's taken all the sport out of it.

How does he do it?

The line, I mean.

Oh, various ways. The preferred method is an interview with the subject, but

-on -one, no witnesses.

Oh, I see.

What about the photographs?

I have glanced through several copies of Spectator, and I noticed that he always

used the most unflattering photos he could find.

Yes, the Rembrandt of bad lighting.

He could make a beauty queen look like Quasimodo.

How does he do it? Does he retouch them? I know that was a favorite of the early

fan magazine.

Wow, that's how they got into trouble, you see. It was too easy to detect. No,

no, he has a much more foolproof method.

Which is?

Well, he, uh... He creates what he wants the camera to see.

How? Well, he stages a situation. You know, man festers star.

Star gets mad.

Star swings at man.

Photographer appears from nowhere in the snaps photograph.

And he gets away with it?

He does or he doesn't. It doesn't matter.

He hopes people will be offended. He just loves it when people buy his paper

every week and walk away mumbling, what rubbish.

I notice that he seems to prefer sexual slurs.

It sells more papers.

But on a more personal level, he just loves it.

Always has.

Ever since his Texas pornography days.

Lassie was involved in pornography?

The Houston Vice Squad still show festivals of his movies.

Were you connected to that operation?

Dear young lady, there are certain things that even I draw the line at.

$75 ,000 plus expenses.

Can you check out that pornography chart?

I'm still working on it. What about Wickham's motive for talking?

Wasn't there a bad blood between him and Lester? I didn't get that from him. He

told me he quit because he was tired.

And you believed him? I didn't have any reason not to.

I spoke to lots of people who swear the spectator. I'm not lying about him. For

the record, three.

Okay, we've got three people willing to say the spectator lied.

We've got an ex -employee talking about how they run their scams. Still not sure

that we have it.

Come on, Charlie, we can really nail this guy.

Things are starting to shape up, but we could use a little more. Rossi, get your

notes. Let's go over everything you've got. Billy, keep going on that Houston

thing. Okay.

What do you think?

I wouldn't mind knowing why the people who filed lawsuits didn't pursue them.

Okay, let's put Hollister on that.

He's doing a piece on people who squeeze juice from weeds.

He'll probably thank us for it.

Hollister quit.

Huh? I forgot to tell you he called this morning. Said he got an offer from a

paper in Cincinnati.

Leave it. What's the matter?

Somebody stole my notes. I swear I had them in my desk. No question about it.

Somebody's written you off.

Lou Grant will continue in a moment here on A &E.

I just want you to know I'm well aware of what you're doing.

What do you mean, Mr. Lester?

I've been in newspapers a long time, Mr. Hume.

I know when a reporter's out to do a hatchet job.

I suggest you be extremely careful.

We're always careful, Mr. Lester. I don't exactly need the attention, you

I granted an interview with your reporter because I thought he was

responsible story.

He is. He better be.

Because if he isn't, I'm not going to respond very well.

Tough loss, Eddie.

Yeah. When are you ever going to beat that guy, huh? You know, he makes you

bad every time you meet him.

Is Rick bothering you again?

You know, you didn't look like yourself out there.

You know you can't play a baseline game against that guy because he'll just kill

you. I'll beat him, will you? Hey, why did you give up the net? You just let

pound you from there.

Hey, look, just get lost.

Hey, listen.

I lost a lot of money on you. What are you doing? Taking your personal life out

on the court?

I hear your old lady's seeing that photographer again, hot and heavy.

You just get out of here. You see her, damn it!

Hey, what do you think you're doing?

Hey, hey, hey, look, man, I'm just walking here. I'm just walking here.

Those guys really did a number on you, huh?

Yeah.

Did Lester sound angry, Mr. Hume?

No, he was calm enough.

Did he threaten us?

The threat was there.

We always know if we went after the spectator, they could fight back.

How close is the story?

You almost got it.

Mr. Hartley, what is our legal situation?

Well, from the drafts I've seen, not too terrific.

Well, I've read everything in that story. It's been checked and double

for accuracy.

I'm just trying to warn you.

Lester is a street fighter.

He's got money. He's got an army of lawyers.

He knows libel inside out. He can hurt us.

We know that going in.

Do we really need this story?

I mean, what's so terrible if we don't print it?

It's not like we're informing the world about a plane crash or a forest fire or

even a corrupt politician.

He's just a cheap exploitation artist.

Do you want to play editor, Marv?

No. Then why not let the city dust pick its own stories?

I'm just trying to protect us.

I don't think we need that kind of protection, Marv.

Charlie, you know, being right can be just as expensive as being wrong.

Your words are well taken, Mr. Hartley. Thank you.

You've done your job. Now I'll do mine.

Make sure that story is solid.

Then let's give it everything we've got.

What's wrong?

I think if we stop here, we have enough to make a two -parter.

Oh, yeah. Good.

Could even be a three -parter.

Two.

It's terrific.

They really have a shot at Congressman Webster's wife running down the highway

in the nude? Yeah. They made her seem like a libertine, a wild libertine.

In fact, her health club had caught on fire and she was just trying to save her

life. I'm bothered by this.

You make them sound so cynical about these stories on the sick and the needy

the downtrodden. It is cynical.

It's just their way to get points so they can justify all this other smut. It

makes us seem catty. It bothers me.

Why don't we drop it?

All right.

Geez. Yeah.

Let's try it out.

And we can't be accused of taking gratuitous swipes out.

There's no record of Lester being arrested in Houston.

You sure? That's directly from the clerk of the district court, the magistrate

court clerk, and the public affairs officer of the Houston Police

Oh, too bad.

I was hoping we'd be able to get more of that kind of background on Lester.

Did you try to get in touch with Whitcomb and ask him about it? More bad

He's somewhere in Switzerland. Nobody seems to know when he'll be back.

You can't risk using that part of the story. It's got to come out.

I don't believe it.

I don't know, Lou.

Lou, Lou, if this Whitcomb guy lied about the port over it, what's to say he

didn't lie about the other stuff?

That's why we're only going with stuff that checks out.

Yeah.

Okay, quick.

All right, write us tomorrow.

Hey, we did a good job.

Yeah. I hope.

Well, thank you.

Well, if you came downtown, maybe I could show you around the paper. We

even have some lunch.

Okay. Bye.

Well, does somebody like our story on The Spectator?

You plan to take them all to lunch, or just the ones that sound cute?

That was Kelly Morrow, the TV star.

You know, the one that's on that show about the big family in Oklahoma City

owns all the oil wells, where everybody's trying to stab everybody

back.

She's the sexy one?

Everyone's the sexy one.

Well, the Spectator did a number on her last year. Made up some story about her

spending time in a mental institution. She just called to thank us for exposing

those guys.

Here's something just off the wire that might interest you. What?

The National Spectator filed suit this morning in federal district court

$60 million in damages against the Los Angeles Tribune.

The Los Angeles Tribune?

Can they afford it?

Suing us? For what?

Bible.

We've maligned them with malicious intent and caused irreparable damage to

reputation.

Addresses for the last ten years. What is this? That could be 27 places.

Everywhere I ever worked, the dates who I worked for, why I left or was let go.

There are my copies of my income tax returns.

I guess you owe us a monumental I told you so, Mark.

Charlie, I don't enjoy this.

I mean, I'm really sorry, but we've got our work cut out for us. Get out of this

one here. With regard to each conversation you had relating to any

spectator story, state the date, what was said, who said it. This is all

confidential stuff. No, not according to the courts.

Your state of mind when you develop the story is the key issue. Our state of

mind? They want to read our thoughts?

Big Brother is here. We are close to 1984, aren't we?

Now, originally, this was designed to protect you.

I mean, to make it more difficult to prove libel.

Besides inaccuracy, they have got to prove malicious intent. To prove intent,

they can ask you what you were thinking. They want notes and records and

memoranda.

And we don't write memos to anyone but ourselves.

That's right.

Some of them may sound a lot different than the way they were intended.

Well, they're counting on that. I just can't believe they can do this.

Well, they can.

Miss Newman, have you ever given a deposition before?

No. No, I never have.

How about you, Rossi?

No, but no sweat.

Mm -hmm.

I think I'm going to put you through a little rehearsal for the deposition

procedure.

Look, I really have some things I should be doing, so maybe I can just step out

of this one.

Sit down, Rossi. Mark says you need a rehearsal. You need a rehearsal.

Hello.

Okay.

Hello.

Okay.

So, do you have a watch?

Sure. It's 4 .15.

That wasn't my question.

I asked you if you had a watch.

You told me the time.

Now, you volunteered information, and in a deposition, that is exactly what you

don't want to do.

You see, the other guy didn't want to rehearse.

Okay, okay.

Mr. Hartley, please continue. Thank you.

What else can we expect?

Well, a deposition is sworn testimony that's given before a trial, but it can

used at the trial.

Usually against you. If you testify to something at your deposition, it has to

match what you say at the trial.

Because if there's a discrepancy, they'll nail you.

Exactly. You have to be extremely careful.

But the other lawyer is going to try to trick you, provoke you, anything that

will get you to say what you don't want to say.

Okay.

We all have to be on our toes.

Take your time.

You don't have to answer quickly.

And make sure that you understand every question. And don't volunteer anything.

Okay, so the guy's going to ask us a lot of questions.

What's he trying to prove?

Well, it's the spectator's job to prove that our story is false.

I mean, they have to prove either that we knew it was false or that we were so

reckless, so doubtful of the truth of our story that we were, in effect,

of malice.

Malice? Not malice in the ordinary sense, Joe. I mean, not ill will or

Now, legal malice is defined as a reckless disregard for the truth.

Well, I think we're all right.

We've been extremely careful with this story, haven't we?

That's right, Mrs. Pinchon. We've got nothing to worry about because truth is

our defense.

Okay.

I think our team is ready.

Mr. Rossi, the Tribune is being sued for $60 million.

We would do well.

Not to approach it like a hockey game.

All right.

Lou Brandt will continue in a moment here on A &E.

I told you to be here at 10 o 'clock sharp. I'm going to keep you waiting for

hour.

Crossy, I'm telling you to relax. Now just relax.

Very helpful.

Jerry, what are you doing here?

Same thing as you, I guess. I was saying I've noticed from my deposition to be

taken today.

In the spectator case against the dread?

Uh, yeah.

Who said he'd have to find Boyd?

Well, what do you mean?

You stole my nose, that's what I mean.

Oh, come on.

Now, why would I steal your nose?

Do you mind if you were working for the spectator?

Listen, you better be careful who you accuse of stealing.

There's such a thing as slander, Mr.

Rossi, you know?

Oh, yeah?

Slander. Knock it off, Rossi. Knock it off.

Get out of here, Jerry.

Slander? Will you calm down?

Look, I'm not going to worry about you. He stole my notes, Lou.

Listen, did you ever think that Lester might intentionally have had Hollister

here just for this reason? So you'd blow your stack, then you'd get into the

deposition and be so mad, you'd say something you shouldn't have. You ever

of that, huh?

Joe, you're up.

reporter, Mr. Rossi, do you initiate your own stories?

Well, sometimes.

Sometimes.

Well, how about the times when you don't?

I could be assigned to something. I see. What happens in this case, the story

about the spectator? I was assigned to it. Assigned by whom?

Lou Grant.

And what position does Mr. Grant hold? He's the city editor of the Tribune. I

see. And when you were assigned to this story, were you working on anything else

at the time? Yes.

Would you care to expand on that?

No.

What story were you working on at the time you were assigned to this?

It was a piece on foster homes.

Foster homes.

Would you consider that to be an important story?

Yes.

More or less important than the spectator story?

I don't know.

Important is a matter of judgment.

Whose judgment?

The city editor's.

And that's Mr. Lou Grant?

Yes.

So he must have felt that it was more important.

I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

Come on now, Mr. Rossi.

Weren't you at a meeting on the 27th when Mr. Grant said he'd like to nail

spectator? I don't recall what Mr. Grant said.

Mr. Rossi, do you consider yourself an objective reporter?

Yes. So when you went to interview Mr. Lester, you had no preconceived notions

of him or the spectator? That is correct.

Just what was the intent of your story? Were you there to do a constructive

piece? No, not exactly.

Well, were you there to attack them?

Just exactly what did you have in mind when you went to interview Mr. Lester?

Just to get a story.

In that case, would you please tell me if you can identify the voices on this

recording as being yours and Mr. Lester's? You had no intention of

discussing the entire spectator story, did you?

Frankly, those public service awards were not my main interest.

You want to get us, don't you?

Is that your voice?

Just a moment, please. I'd like to have a conference with my client.

Did you know that was being recorded?

I guess so, yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

I instruct my witness not to answer any questions regarding this tape until

we've had a chance to review it. In fact, Mr. Rossi, you had such contempt

the spectator that you referred to its humanitarian work as a smokescreen, did

you not?

No, I did not.

At least that's what you were thinking.

He will lawyerity moonlight as a mind reader. For the record, I'm holding a

photocopy of some pages from what appears to be a reporter's notebook.

Those are the notes Hollis the writ thought.

I object to anything regarding these notes. They were taken from my witness

without his knowledge. They were stolen.

That's all. Thank you very much. They were stolen.

How'd it go?

I don't know.

Okay, I guess.

Hey, he did a good job.

It was rough, but he held up.

All right.

All right.

Okay, your turn.

It's nice to go on.

How did you happen to do the Spectator story, Mr. Grant? It was news.

Wasn't it news a year ago?

I suppose so.

So why now and not then?

Well, they've been sued a couple of times recently.

Is that the only reason?

It's a good enough reason.

Did you know a year ago that George Lester was editor and publisher of the

Spectator? No.

Did you know six months ago?

No.

When did you learn of this fact?

Just recently.

What are your feelings about Mr. Lester?

I don't have any feelings about him in particular.

Do you dislike him?

No. You mean the fact that he fired you once doesn't affect your feelings about

him? He didn't fire me.

He says he did.

I was laid off. That was 20 years ago.

He was the executive responsible for the layoff order.

Executive? You're the damn assistant city editor.

He always wanted to have lunch with me, but I never had time for him. I had

trouble remembering his name.

Lou, I think we're getting away from the subject here. What do you think of The

Spectator, Mr. Grant?

Not much and not often.

Do you respect it as a newspaper?

I have a hard time regarding it as a newspaper.

Lou.

No. Is it well written?

No. Is it edited well?

No. Do you think that your own Tribune is a superior publication to the

spectator? Of course.

The Spectator has a circulation of five million.

What is the Tribune's? Over 404 ,000. Since when does circulation have

to do with quality?

Does it disturb you that a newspaper that you don't seem to respect has a

readership ten times greater than the newspaper you edit?

No. Mr. Grant.

As city editor, you decide what stories are covered and how they're edited,

don't you? Yes. It's a very powerful position, isn't it? I suppose so. A

powerful position that might be misused by somebody who wanted to use it for his

own ends? I don't misuse it. If you weren't shaping the story in a negative

why didn't you have Miss Newman interview Clive Whitcomb and not Damien

Damien Fox still works for Lester. I thought he'd be biased.

In a favorable way?

Well, either that or out to protect his own butt.

When did you find out Whitcomb had left the spectator to set up a rival

publication?

Rival publication?

Surely you knew.

Well, I didn't know that.

If you had, would you have been a little more skeptical about Whitcomb's

credibility?

Maybe. I don't know.

But you had such serious doubts about your story that you had your reporters

double, even triple -check their sources, didn't you?

That's what's called being thorough. That's what we do with every story.

I would like to go through each part of the Tribune article and ask you what you

were thinking when you made these decisions.

You know, whether you were skeptical, whether you had any serious doubts.

I'll never answer that one.

What? I'm not going to answer.

Lou, you have to.

If editors are forced to testify about their doubts, bear their thought

processes to the world, do you realize what a chilling effect that's going to

have? No, that's not the point here.

Well, it should be.

Every time an editor has to make a decision or is faced with a hard choice,

going to wonder if he's going to get hauled into a nuisance suit like this

maybe incriminating himself or one of his reporters. That's why I'm not going

answer. Mr. Grant, I feel I must warn you, unless you answer, you're in

of this proceeding.

I'm already in contempt.

I'm in contempt of scummy newspapers and scummier lawyers who try to use the law

for their own purposes.

We'll continue in a moment here on A &E.

How'd it go now?

Hard to tell.

Good. Go with that.

It reminds me.

What if it became that story about the guy in the Treasury Department's son and

his connection with the PLO?

Total backwards.

I tell you, I just thought it was shaping up to be more trouble than it

worth.

What do you mean?

I was afraid of it.

I thought we might be buying a lawsuit somewhere down the end of the road.

In fact, we're liable to drop a lawsuit as fast as you can drop your hat.

Why don't you find out what you got before you back off, Adam?

If you want me to, I'll follow through on it.

I want you to.

What else have we got?

I got a story here about big money coming in from Taiwan being invested in

California agriculture.

I can see it now.

Acres and acres of water chestnuts and bean sprouts.

Nice.

You got something new?

How about this?

Court -ordered sanctions have been imposed on a certain city editor in the

spectator case.

Until he answers certain questions, you will be fined $100 a day.

Well, Lou, I don't know what you could have expected.

The Supreme Court has said there's no such thing as editorial privilege.

There's no such thing as executive privilege, as some presidents have found

We're having the First Amendment anyway.

It appeared in front of the Supreme Court and hasn't been the same since.

Do you realize that everything we say in discussing this story, witnesses,

sources, what we had for lunch, all that can be used against us in the trial?

Doesn't that scare you just a little bit?

Oh, it scares me a lot.

You'll just have to be more careful, that's all.

We just came out of a budget meeting where an editor was censoring himself

before he even started the story because he was afraid it would bring a lawsuit.

Newspapers are going to be so intimidated, we'll be double -checking

crossword puzzles before we run them.

We can't spend time evaluating the legal ramifications of everything before we

run something.

News, by definition, is timely as a short shelf life. If we're too careful

way too long, it's no longer news.

Which brings us back to your $100 a day.

I was wondering, Mr. Brown, how can you afford that?

Well, I was assuming the paper would kind of back me up.

Mr. Hartley and I have discussed that.

I'm in complete sympathy with you, Lou.

But your refusal to answer is delaying our efforts to dispose of this suit.

Now, don't make an issue of this particular point.

We want to argue the merits of the case, and to do that, you have got to answer

those questions.

Which is why I have advised Mrs. Pinchot not to pay the fine for you.

Thank you for your sympathy.

I can't afford $100 a day, Mrs. Pinchot.

I'm sorry.

Well, another day, another $100.

What did it cost you so far?

Considering the fine was retroactive from my refusal, $491.

How long do you feel you can hold out?

Oh, another hour, hour and a half.

You know what's really screwed up?

Here we are at the Trib taking care to be fair and accurate. Yeah, we try to be

objective. We try to do a good professional job.

And we expose a disgrace like the spectator, and we're the ones held in

contempt.

All we'll do is help their circulation.

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

He knows that, too, huh?

You know, Lou, you probably don't want my advice, but I don't see why you

bear the brunt of this whole thing.

I think you should give them what they want.

The trip loses.

I'll answer the questions for the deposition.

I'll do it.

But I just want you to know, I protest.

At the age of 75, millions still hang on his every word.

We'll follow the extraordinary career of Billy Graham tonight on an all -new

biography. And now, Police Story is next on A &E.