Original subtitles

Stand by, two.

Mix through, cue on two.

The BBC's announced the appointment

of the ex Head of Olympic Delivery, Ian Fletcher,

as its new Head of Values.

Time now for the shipping forecast.

Superimpose.

- Move Panorama to Twitter? - Right, OK.

- Yes, no, brilliant. - Blimey, how's that gonna work?

It's Monday morning

at the BBC's New Broadcasting House headquarters

and Head of Values Ian fletcher is chairing

another meeting of the renewal group.

I mean, this might be a good time to remind ourselves

what this is actually about.

Oh, yes, please, sir.

- Brilliant... - Right.

So, essentially this DCMS thing...

Following a broadly successful visit to New Broadcasting House

by a delegation from the Department of Culture, Media and also Sport,

Ian has been tasked with the opportunity to represent the BBC

in what will be, in one way or another,

a decisive series of meetings at Westminster,

as it negotiates the renewal of its royal charter,

and therefore its permission to exist.

...to really set out our stall at the start of the process.

- Hurrah. - Yeah, great.

And maybe even a chance to set the tone of the whole conversation

by being really confident about our aspirations for the future up front.

Christ. -With this in mind,

the BBC has recently launched its high-profile More Of Less initiative,

as a flagship policy to demonstrate that they understand what they're doing.

For what it's worth, the mood music at breakfast with Tony these days

is all about ways of showing that we get it.

- Right. - Breakfast with Tony?

These days it's just a matter of kiwi fruit

- and tired-looking almond croissants. - Jesus.

- Yes. - Isn't it, Anna?

- Yes, exactly, yes. - Right.

Sorry, can I just ask, this probably isn't my...

- No. - but when you say "get it"...

- Yes? - get what, exactly?

Oh, yes, no, brilliant, Lucy.

- I might be being stupid. - Yes, exactly.

No, the fact is this is about establishing what we do most of best and finding

- fewer ways of doing more of it less. - Right.

Yes... Yes... Brilliant... Yeah, bollocks.

- So, what is this, Jerry-- - Ben.

So, what is this, Ben?

Listen, I don't know how this stuff works, but, uh...

With Ian's first trip to Westminster due next week,

it's become clear that Ben has been invited to have some thoughts

about what More Of Less might look like

in his new role as someone about to apply for the same job as Jerry.

These are just some squeaky toys to push around the floor, Ben, aren't they?

- Yeah. - Squeaky toys?

- Yep. - Yes. Now feel free to ignore them.

- Right, well. - OK, fine, done.

- Yep. - Oh, I dunno.

Um... gardening?

- Gardening? - OK, right!

Would anybody miss that if we didn't do it?

- I would! - Yes... I mean... No.

- Surely... - No, I'm sorry.

- Isn't it more-- - No, the fact is, that's not the point.

- Can we close that for the moment? - Yes.

If that's alright, Ben?

- Sure. - Yeah, close it.

- Yes, of course, yes, no, very good. - I'm sorry, guys,

I am gonna say this.

As a woman, I have a bit of a soft spot for Monty Don.

- Really? - Brilliant.

- Really? - Yes, no, who hasn't?

- I gotta say I would miss him. - OK.

And I know there are a lot of other women out there like me.

Yes. I mean obviously I'm grateful to Ben for all the... you know, the thing

- you've put into this. - No, really.

- Hey. - But we seem to have got off

- on the wrong foot here somehow. - Yes.

And the idea of us spending our energy on looking for things not to do...

I agree completely.

I mean, that is absolutely not what renewal is about.

Yes, no, very good.

No, the challenge is to... Hang on, what's this?

Oh no, yes.

- Another squeaky toy, presumably? - Yep, yes, no, brilliant.

- Orchestras? - Yes.

- Right. - Orchestras, yep.

Yes, but six is probably the perfect number to have in life anyway, so...

- Well, that's... - So let's not...

- No, I'm sorry. - That's a different...

- Yes. - Six?

It's becoming clear to Ian that so crucial is the More Of Less

initiative deemed to be for the future of the BBC,

that Jerry has also been invited to have some thoughts about how it might work

in his new role as someone about to apply for the same job as Ben.

The BBC Celtic Symphonieta.

- Yep. - Right.

- Yeah. - Isn't that a bit--

- No. - Yeah, a bit crap, yeah.

- Well, no. - Yes.

I'm not sure that's how you spell "Symphonieta" anyway, is it?

- No, it's not, no. - No... Really?

No, it is bloody not.

After a, for him, unusually intense period of research,

Jerry has discovered that the BBC currently operates

a total of six major orchestras and has been looking at ways

of reimagining them as a smaller number of minor orchestras.

I remember being taken to see the Welsh Symphony Orchestra

as it was then in St David's Hall Cardiff when I was 12.

- Right. - Really?

Apart from the musical experience, which I've got to say was Vaughan Williams,

for me, it was the first time I'd seen more than 30 people

in any kind of room at the same time.

- Yes, well, that's brilliant. - For me as a young woman

- growing up in Wales, it was seminal. - Right.

- That's when I knew I had to get out. - Yes, I mean...

- Hurrah. - A couple things

- to throw in at this point. - Brilliant... Yep.

I'm with you on this, Ian.

- Good. Although I haven't said it yet. - No, I know, I'm just saying.

No, I should probably say now that this isn't something

I'd feel comfortable taking to the DCM and also S next week.

- No. - I'm not gonna be responsible for axing

four major BBC orchestras and instigating the launch

of the BBC Celtic Symphonieta, however you spell it.

- Yes, no, very good. - I don't see that as my role.

- as Head of Values. - Yes, no, fabulous, Ian, very clear.

- Just give it... - Get off, it's mine.

- Yes? - Yes, no, come on, boys, nice big voice.

This is me on my bike.

- This is me on my bike. - This is me on my bike.

Yeah, hey, this is me on my bike.

This is me on my bike.

Meanwhile, across town at Fun Media,

Siobhan has asked her team to gather together and have ideas

about using the Cycle Shorts video sent over to them

by Director of Better, Anna Rampton,

as a possible trail for the launch of the BBC's new online platform, BBC Me.

OK.

- This is me on my bike. - This is me on my bike!

- OK, it's done now, shut up. - Yep.

- What are we thinking here, guys? - Pretty cool.

In many ways, it's a perfect example

of exactly the sort of selfie-centred content that will lie

at the heart of the new channel and that may well be the model

for how television will work in a world where no one watches it anymore.

Plus, when it comes to the actual launch, you can have it playing

on like a permanent loop on a really big screen like a whole wall.

- Maybe if it was in black-and-white? - Sure.

Yeah, cool, black-and-white, yeah.

- Yeah, maybe like both. - This is so not happening.

We've got one chance to get this launch gig right, OK?

- Yep. - Get it wrong,

we're eating shit soup with no chopsticks.

Yeah.

- OK, so you theme the whole event. - Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

- OK. - Maybe everyone's wearing cycling shorts.

- Yeah. - Cycling shorts?

- Yeah, or like... - Eww. Not gonna happen.

- OK, so everybody has to have a bike. - OK.

If you don't have a bike, you can't come in.

Yeah, maybe have it somewhere you can only get to by bike.

- Yeah. - OK, like where?

- I don't know, maybe more like... - Yeah, France.

- OK, Michael, what are you thinking here? - Sure.

What you got upside your head?

- I have an idea. - You wanna go fuzzy-felt on us?

- I don't need that. - OK, cool.

So, we don't need the bike.

- Say what? - Cool.

- Lose it. - Lose it?

The cool part of this is "freeing the selfie,"

so we don't need the bike at all.

Even though Michael brings several years' experience with him

from the Fun Media office in New York,

it's become clear that in many ways he's actually

younger than the rest of the team put together.

So you set up a YouTube channel. You could do it now, right?

And people upload themselves just saying the word "me"

like right into their phones like a super selfie,

whoever they are or wherever they are now, so anyone can add to it

so like it goes viral, right?

So already you got zillions of people, already it's like a huge thing

like even before the BBC Me launch you got pretty much the whole world saying "Me."

Which could be pretty cool, right?

Holy shit.

So maybe for the launch you edit it so like you get some cool music

and maybe the strapline could be like "BBC Me: it's you."

Which actually could be cool.

Yeah.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

George!

♪ 'Cause here we go ♪

♪ S Club ♪

♪ There ain't no party like an S Club party ♪

Meanwhile, back in renewal,

one of either Ben or Jerry has noticed that there is a BBC orchestra

on the original list of six that no one has so far mentioned.

They all sound fabulous, don't they?

- Yep. - Do they?

Yes, alright.

Originally the BBC Light Fun Orchestra,

the BBC Swing Band started life in 1927

and has had incarnations as the BBC Home Service Dance Band

and the Radio 2 Big Swingers Ensemble in its nearly 80-year history.

- Yes, no, can you stop that now, please? - Brilliant.

- Can you stop that now, please? - Yeah.

- Yes, it's an interesting one, isn't it? - Is it?

Yes, exactly, yes.

Maybe there's been a lot happening in the world recently

but hands up who knew we had a big swing band?

- Yes, well. - Yes, no, the fact is we have.

So what are we gonna do, make it smaller, are we?

- Brilliant. - The BBC Little Swing Band.

- Brilliant. - Brilliant.

Just out of interest, guys, do we know what their natural constituency is?

Their natural constituency?

- Yes, exactly. - Yep.

I don't know much about their natural constituency.

No, exactly.

But I think my grandparents actually used to listen to them on the World Service.

- Really? - Yes. 'Cause--

- No, this is not about the World Service. - No, no.

It's not about grandparents.

- No, I just-- - The fact is orchestras are something

- that we currently do well. - Hurrah.

This is about finding more ways of doing less of what we currently do better.

- Well-- - About finding better ways--

- Finding fewer. - Finding more ways of doing--

- Anyway. - Yes, exactly.

- Fuck sake. - Yes, no, brilliant.

I completely get your concerns around this whole values thing, Ian.

- Do you? - Yes, completely.

- Completely. - Yep... Yes, exactly.

I mean, I have no idea how this whole thing works,

but, I dunno, are we in an area here... - Yes.

where we can make some positive statement of intent?

- Yes, exactly. - Positive statement of intent?

- Alright, OK. - You know, maybe without

quite so much collateral damage as we might get in some other...

- Yes, exactly, yes. - Collateral damage?

- No offence to your grandparents, Lucy. - No exactly.

- No. No. - No.

This is BBC news.

These are the top stories developing at 11.

President Trump promises a big day on national security,

saying, "We will build the wall along the border with Mexico."

Yeah, so basically we're pretty pleased with it.

- Yeah, are you? - Yeah.

A high-ranking North Korean diplomat has told the BBC

he believes Kim Jong Un would be prepared to use nuclear weapons.

It's another day, and head of News and Current Affairs, Neil Reid,

is down in the in-house IT Solutions Control Centre

with Senior Technical Services Choreographer Adam Brady.

So it's been live for 24 hours now and basically we're looking at 93% accuracy...

- Right. - except in one or two areas, obviously.

A new version of the BBCs state-of-the-art in-house

Syncopatical Operating System has just gone live,

including a major upgrade of its Syncopaticaption

automatic live subtitling software.

Which means it's faster from brain to ear than the human eye can detect.

Yeah, great, so with the 93% accuracy...

Yeah, OK. So with 1.9, we never got past 90%.

Even on good days, which we didn't really have.

So basically we're ahead of the game here already.

Yeah, great, so can we talk about the other 7%?

Yep, sure.

Although Syncopaticaption 2.0 is already outsubtitling

its predecessors in many areas,

the area where it's least accurate is that of proper names.

Like "Tweezer May," for instance.

Yeah, although to be fair, phonetically, that's actually pretty close.

Yeah, but politically and in every other way except phonetically, it's a disaster.

- Yeah. - Or worse still, "Vladimir Puking."

Yeah, that was really bad luck.

The problem we've got, Adam, proper names are a key component of world news.

- Yeah. - I don't understand statistics,

but you could say they're the most important 7%.

- Yeah. - And that's the 7% we're getting wrong.

- Not always. - No, not always, but enough.

Like I say, we're 24 hours in, but once it's learned a new name,

in theory, it will never forget it again.

- Yeah. - It actually can't.

The thing is, Adam, and I don't understand the technicalities of this,

but as far as I can see, what's happening is it's getting names wrong

and then it's remembering that wrong version and repeating it without fail.

The good thing about that is that once you've got a problem flagged,

we can predict with absolute certainty when it's gonna happen again.

And that's why we're all dreading the next story about Russia.

Though, to be fair, things have been quieter with Russia in the last week,

so that's like a positive already.

What?

Me... Me...

Me... Me...

Me...

Me...

Me...

- So this is like a try-out we did. - Right.

And this is like a bunch of other people, I don't know who they are.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the building,

Siobhan has come over to report back to Head of Output Matt Tavener

on Fun Media's creative response to the Cycle Shorts idea,

after Anna Rampton had forwarded it to them

after David Wilkes had sent her the link

after Jack Patterson had adapted it from On Your Bike

after Izzy Gould had developed it

after Will Humphries had come to her with the idea originally.

Can I just say, was that you again there, Siobhan?

- Sure was. - Thought so.

- I'm coming up again. - For a minute there--

No, shut up, here I come. - Me.

- Me. - Right, yes.

- That's so fun. - Yes.

Fun's brainwave is to use the idea to create an interactive online trail

ahead of the launch of the BBC's new online platform BBC Me.

- That's it, OK? - Sure.

- Yeah. - BBC Me, it's you.

- Great, Siobhan, so this... - Hi.

Hey, Izzy.

- Sorry I'm a bit late. - No, great you could make it.

- Yes. - Thanks.

- Lovely, Izzy. - Siobhan's been showing us a rough

- of where they're up to with things. - Yes.

- Genius. - Basically, it's--

I'm gonna play it again.

- Well, no... - Here we go.

Given her loyalty to Will's original concept for On Your Bike

and what's happened to it since,

Izzy has been uncertain about whether to come to the meeting or not.

But she has.

Me.

So that's it again, OK?

- OK. - Sure.

- Do you wanna see it-- - No, that's great.

So this will be a YouTube thing.

- Excuse me? - Well.

A "thing"? Everybody's got a phone.

- Everyone's a "me." Right? - Right.

So we go live with this thing before the launch, like now.

Get a few Super Me's involved at the get-go, it's like, oh my God, OK?

Oh my god!

This trend is leaving town today, be on it.

No, sure, that's great, Siobhan.

Super Me's?

OK, no, sure, so like Taylor Swift does a "me," right?

You are pretty much drowning in retweets right away.

- Right. - Sure.

- You're living in a world of me's. - Oh my God.

- Pretty soon you done broke the Internet. - I love where you've gone with this.

- Sure. - Genius.

Sorry, 'cause I'm just catching up, so...

- With the Cycling Shorts idea, Siobhan... - Yes.

- Excuse me. - You've gone past that as an idea?

OK, here's the thing with this: this is BBC Me we're launching, not BBC Bike.

- Sure. - OK.

Lose the bike, what is that? Get rid of it.

- No, sure. - And the "free the selfie" idea?

- I'm sorry? - Free the selfie!

Yeah, 'cause I was never really sure about that.

No, that's really interesting, Izzy.

So I don't know if this is any use, I don't know about Taylor Swift,

but we get quite a lot of people coming in and out of here every day.

- OK. - Would it be an idea

to maybe just have someone like down in reception with a phone, every day?

- No, sure. - Holy shit!

You never know, it would only be a few moments of their time.

- Who knows who you might get? - Great.

- George! - I... What?

- OK, cool. - Right, OK.

- Genius. - That's great, Izzy, thanks.

Yeah, thanks.

Anna? Anna?

Anna?

Eventually it's the end of another day.

But fortunately for Senior Communications Officer Tracy Pritchard,

Anna Rampton hasn't quite made it out of the building yet.

- Anna! - Yes, hi.

I'm glad I caught you. I was gonna run out of road there.

- Yes. - I don't know if you saw my email.

Your email?

- This thing with the big swing band. - Yes, exactly.

Rumours have somehow started to appear

on the BBC Betterness Twitter feed

that the BBC is planning to reimagine its big swing band as terminally un-swung.

So we are starting to take incoming on it already.

- Right, incoming. - I've already had to get heavy

with some 14-year-old from the buzz feed whose tone I didn't appreciate.

And as far as I can work out, this is basically your thing.

Yes, exactly, yes.

This is about identifying what we do most of best

and finding fewer ways of doing more of it less.

- Right, OK. - Yes.

- That's what you want me to say? - Yes.

OK, fine, if you're sure about that, Anna.

- Yes, exactly. - Like I say, I'm glad I caught you.

You won't believe this, but I used to run the 400-meter hurdles at school.

Yes, exactly, no.

Meanwhile it's a new day, and it may only be eight o'clock,

but down in reception, Will Humphries is already hard at work.

He's been entrusted with the task of persuading some famous faces

to take part in the new interactive online BBC Me Super Selfie campaign.

- Yeah, hi, yeah. - Hi.

- Yeah, hi, so I'm Will. - Hi, Will.

- Yeah, so like how are you? - How am I?

- Yeah. - I'm good, thanks.

- Cool. - Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah, so yeah, I'm doing this thing for BBC Me.

- BBC Me? - Yeah.

What the hell is that?

So could you like say "me" into this?

- Say you? - Yeah, what?

- You want me to say you? - No, me.

- Sorry? - Like... me.

Except not me, you.

Will, a part of me would like to help you...

- No, yeah, me too. - But I don't think I can.

- OK, cool. - Sorry.

- No worries. - But you know, hey, good luck.

Yeah, no worries, yeah, cool.

No, of course. I mean,

as I say, I've no idea where that's come from.

And as far as I'm aware, you know, it's probably,

it's almost certainly just a rumour.

So, you know?

Uh, but in the meantime, we're obviously very aware...

Meanwhile, Lucy has found time to go down to the so-called media cafe

to have some breakfast whilst talking on her phone.

OK, well, look, thanks for getting in touch with me,

and I'll do what I can to clarify the situation and get back to you

as soon as...

Yes, OK, bye, bye.

Right!

- Hi. - Hi.

- Everything OK? - Uh, yeah, no.

I mean... Have you got a minute?

Yes, of course, yes.

- Where the hell did she get that from? - I don't know.

Someone told her they'd seen something on Twitter or...

Yes, I know.

Lucy has been contacted by someone called Donna Fredricks,

who turns out to be the daughter, for the moment anyway,

of the leader of the BBC Big Swing Band.

I think she's like his manager or something as well as his daughter.

Also, why you? What have you got to do with it?

She posted on the inclusivity feeling space and it got forwarded to me.

- The "inclusivity feeling space"? - OK, here we go.

So this is him.

Right, OK.

He's 74, he's been leader of the band like forever.

- Right, God. - Yes, I know.

And suddenly she's asking me flat out if we're axing it.

- Right, yes. - What am I supposed to say?

- No. - Are we axing it?

- Well, not unless-- - 'Cause also--

- God, there's an "also"? - It's his 75th birthday coming up.

They're rehearsing a special concert to celebrate as we speak.

Great, that's pretty much a full house then, isn't it?

This is him with the band.

- Looks like he's having a nice time. - Yes.

At the risk of sounding like Tracy Pritchard,

- I've got a bad feeling about this. - I know.

- Thank God we haven't made a decision yet. - Yes.

- 'Cause that would be... - We haven't made a decision?

- Well, no, I mean, have we? - I didn't think so.

Well, I mean, not unless someone...

Right, good.

- So this is obviously a screen grab. - Yep.

- 10:05 this morning, by the looks of it. - Yeah, whatever.

So we didn't notice it when it went out live.

Meanwhile, current Head of News and Current Affairs, Neil Reid,

is having another in a series of increasingly ongoing conversations

with the BBC's Chief Technical Services Choreographer Adam Brady.

I mean, "Dame Baggy Smith," for Christ's sake!

Yeah, I know.

Whatever you think of actors, this is one of the most respected of our generation.

- Yeah, she's great, isn't she? - She's 82.

She's a dame, for Christ's sake, she's a national treasure.

And she's now someone... and I say this as someone who's

just been shouted at by her agent... she's now someone

who's never gonna work for the BBC again.

OK, so what's happened is someone's taken this and posted it on Twitter.

- Yes. - Presumably as some joke.

- Yes, I can see what's happened! - In a way, you can't actually blame them.

- I don't blame them, Adam, I blame you! - Yeah, yeah.

So whilst you figure out how to fix it, let's go back to good old 1.9, shall we?

- Yeah. - What?

The thing with 1.9, it's no longer compatible

with Syncopatico Rolling Thunder.

Great. OK, let's just turn the fucking thing off altogether.

With that, Neil, we immediately run the risk

of alienating the blind community.

Which, I dunno about you, but I'm not comfortable with.

- Deaf. Deaf! - What?

- Yeah, deaf, yeah, deaf. Sorry. - God. Fucking hell.

- Ian. - Yes, hello, yes.

- Yes, hello, good to meet you. - Yes, you too.

Meanwhile, Ian has made the journey to Westminster

for his crucial first charter renewal meeting

at the Department of Culture, Media and also Sport.

- Fiona is running a few minutes late. - OK.

- But if you're happy just to take a seat. - Of course, yes.

- Can I get you a coffee? - No, I'm fine, thanks.

- Your colleague's already here. - Oh good, well... my colleague?

She's been here awhile, actually.

As the first of what could be literally

who knows how many such meetings to come,

it's vital that it gets off to a smooth start.

- Anna. - Yes, hi, yes.

- So is this, are you-- - Yes, exactly, yes.

Right, don't take this the wrong way. It's always nice to see you, obviously.

But I didn't realise you were gonna be here for this.

- Yes. - Right.

- The fact is I came in a taxi. - Right.

- Yes, me too. - Yes. Exactly, yes.

With Fiona Craig running slightly late,

Ian and Anna have got some time

to sit next to each other in the waiting room and wait.

...and as we head up to next week, the temperatures will continue to rise

as well, and that is it.

Thank you.

And here with us now are the leader of the BBC Big Swing Band himself,

Ray Fredricks and his daughter Donna.

Donna, I think this is a picture of them rehearsing for that 75th birthday concert.

Yes, that was last week, yes.

So, Ray, for you, all these rumours around closure,

it's gotta be really upsetting for you, and for everyone, really.

At first we thought it was a joke.

Hey, that's life I guess. That's show business.

Meanwhile, back in New Broadcasting House reception,

Will has spotted a new potential target.

- Well yeah, hi yeah. - Hi.

- Yeah, so can you-- - No.

OK. Sorry.

OK, cool.

Will!

- Oh, yeah, hey Izzy. Hi. - How's it going?

Yeah, no worries, yeah, pretty cool.

- Any luck? - What, you mean like so far?

Yes.

This one guy looked like the guy with Pudsey the Bear.

- Pudsey the Bear? - Yeah.

- Terry Wogan? - Terry Wogan, yeah.

- Right. - But I asked him and he wasn't.

But Terry Wogan's dead, surely.

That's what he said, yeah.

Right. You don't have to be down here all the time, Will.

- Yeah, no worries, I don't mind. - It would be cool if you ended up getting

- a couple really big names. - Yeah.

Apparently, Lenny Henry was in this morning.

- Yeah. - It'd be--

- No way! - It'd be great if you could get him.

I know, yeah, me too.

At what point did you find out? When did you hear?

- No one's said anything to us. - No.

- No one's told us anything, have they? - I don't believe so, I guess not.

Back over at the DCM and also S,

it's becoming clear that despite the importance of the BBC

not dropping a ball of any size on this morning of all mornings,

it's managed to drop a potentially really big one live on its own breakfast show.

Every day he comes in, he gets up in front of the band, he's 27 again.

You can see it happening.

He's like a father to those guys.

He literally is a father to me.

You know, it's like, what more do they want?

- Right, OK. - Yes.

So I don't understand quite how this happened.

- Hello. - Yes, hi.

- Welcome. - Yes, exactly.

But before they know it, it's time to be met

by the DCM and also S's executive media director, Fiona Craig.

I don't like to boast, but I have a TV in my office, shall we watch there?

- Yes. - Yes. No, yes.

They're to be joined again for the meeting

by two further DCM and S junior people.

I'm sure you won't remember Chloe and Zoe, but this is them again.

- Yes, of course, hi. - Hi.

- Yes, hi. - Yes, exactly.

With the introductions over, perhaps not surprisingly

the first item on the agenda is pleasantries.

If there's anything you can do to make EastEnders less depressing,

- I strongly advise you to think about it. - Right, yes.

Yes.

- Probably thinking that's a joke, Ian. - Well...

- It's not. - Right, no.

- No. - Yes.

For Ian, getting off to a good start in his first-ever meeting

with the government in the charter renewal process

hasn't been helped by the item on this morning's BBC Breakfast programme

about plans to axe the BBC Big Swing Band without telling them,

as they rehearse for a special concert

to mark its leader's 75th birthday celebrations.

I was surprised to see Ray Fredricks in prime position

on what I can only call the BBC Breakfast sofa.

- Right, yes. - So, how should we think about that?

- Yes. How should you think about it? - Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Yes.

Well, I mean this is just, it's one of those genuinely...

- Yes. - In the context of very tough choices.

Exactly, yes. Tough choices, yes.

This is something we found ourselves looking at, isn't it, Anna?

Yes, exactly. Yes.

- Obviously, in an ideal world-- - Let's not do ideal worlds, Ian, shall we?

- Dare we mark those lines? - No. Yes.

What I would say about this, to me, I'm an agnostic when it comes to music.

It's nothing to me what tune you dance to, but what I would say,

maybe a word to the wise, you do know that the minister himself is a keen trombonist?

- Right. - The he, the what?

- Were you not aware of that? - A trombonist?

- I have to say I wondered. - Right.

- Wh-When you say-- - So if I tell you he's got a picture

of Duke Ellington on the wall of his office, Ian...

- Right. - The Duke, the Ellington?

Forgive me, Fiona. Is this a joke?

- A joke? - Yes.

Judge for yourself if you get here early enough.

Some mornings, you can hear him from the street.

- Right. - Yes.

So what I'd say to you, Ian, is, from your point of view,

if it's a joke, it's not a very funny one, is it?

No.

Yes, hi, Tracy, yes.

Yes, I have, just now, yes.

Yes, it is.

Yes, I know.

Yes, I have.

As part of an explosion of reaction on social media

following the big swing band item on BBC Breakfast earlier,

Jools Holland, one of the BBC's biggest living musical giants,

has tweeted that he will leave the BBC for good

if the planned closure goes ahead.

And worse still, a lot of people with opinions have already "liked" that.

Yes, now Anna's here with me. Yes.

Well, but anyway she is.

Overall, things are not going well.

So we'll see you shortly, and in the meantime, let's all stay calm

and try and visualise some positive outcomes here.

No, well, OK, but let's try anyway.

Yes, fine, OK.

Bye, bye.

Right, good.

So there's an emergency damage limitation in Nadia Hussain at eleven o'clock.

Tony's suggestion.

He's super calm, apparently,

but apparently someone heard him shouting in the toilet.

So anyway, yes, if you've got any bright ideas,

apart from asking the driver to drive us both to St. Pancras,

getting on a train and disappearing to the continent for a while.

Obviously the main... That was a joke, by the way.

- Just in case you... Yeah. - Mm.

No, I mean the main thing now is to, before we, you know, actually...

Are you OK, Anna? Anna, are you alright?

Right, OK, um...

- Actually, can we just stop, please? - What?

You OK back there?

No, I think she's fine. I think it's OK. She's just, you know...

Ah, no, I think maybe we'd better stop.