All language subtitles for The Mortician S01E02 Episode Two 720p AMZN WEB-DL DDP5 1 H 264-RAWR

Tim Waters had put two and two together
and knew what David Sconce was doing.

He knew that on a
crematorium side,

he was doing something that
was either illegal or immoral.

The rumors were that Tim Waters

had gone out to eat with
David right before he died.

People were saying that
David had had him killed.

After Tim Waters had died,

without an obstruction
to his success,

David Sconce, he felt
like he could do anything.

David had grand plans.

He had designs on, you
know, the entire West.

And he went out and he
solicited a lot more business.

The shelves would be full.
The freezer would be full.

And I could never
catch up. Never.

And in return, if he needed
me to do something, I did it.

Except I wasn't
gonna beat nobody up,

I wasn't gonna kill anybody,
and I wasn't gonna do

anything illegal other
than what we were doing.

"There's nothing gonna happen,"
and everything happened.

That Murphy's Law
thing, you know?

If it can go wrong, it's gonna go
wrong. And it really went wrong.

One night, I was a runner
at the crematorium.

I forget who called me.

I think Johnny was the one
who called me, I think.

Yeah, "Whoa, what do you
mean, it burned down?"

I found out these guys smoked
their dope, and they left!

It's just...

There's no words.
There's no words.

You know, after the fire, David's
business didn't shut down.

He was still picking up cases,

and yet everybody knew

that his facility
had burnt down.

After the fire happened
at the crematory,

I didn't stop.

But nobody could figure out
where I was cremating my bodies.

In 1986, I was working as
the Air Quality Engineer

for the San Bernardino County
Air Pollution Control Agency.

My job was to protect the environment for
the health and welfare of the citizens

that live in the area.

We had received complaints
from the citizenry

in the high desert in the
Hesperia area about a facility.

The name was Oscar Ceramics.

The owner was David Sconce.

They claimed they were
making ceramic tiles

for NASA and the space industry.

We had a business owner in the
area complaining about smell,

smoke coming out
of the building,

and even sometimes flames
leaping out of the stack.

He was very adamant

that he smelled burning
bodies, burning flesh.

He was in one of
the military units

that had liberated one of
the concentration camps,

I believe it was
Auschwitz itself.

And so, he knew this odor to him

was the same odor that
he had smelled then.

We just knew there's
something going on.

And all the things
that followed with it

were stuff that were
gonna get us in trouble.

It's starting to get
like, what are we doing?

We're going way, way,
way, way, way overboard.

I mean, it's not like
I'm gonna stop doing it.

I've already been doing
it. But it was like a lot.

My name is David
Dicus, I was a sergeant

with the San Bernardino
Sheriff's Department.

I was assigned to run
the detective bureau.

We had a couple of our patrolmen
called out to the scene.

There was a ceramics factory in
Hesperia called Oscar Ceramics.

There was smoke coming
underneath the doors.

One of the patrolmen
called us up and said,

"This case seems
like it's got legs."

We rolled out to the scene.

When we first arrived,
nobody would come out.

Then, once we had a pretty good presence
between law enforcement and the fire,

he ultimately did come
out, a Hispanic gentleman.

And,

finally, the San Bernardino
County Sheriff came.

That's when they got to come in.

Otherwise, I was stalling
these guys as long as I could.

The operator in there, he
was working in a Camaro.

He did not sit in the
building. I asked him why.

He said, "It's too
smoky in there to work."

He actually had a small
TV and the phone line

into his car sitting out by
the door of the building.

Johnny claimed to us he did not
know what was going on in the kilns.

He said somebody else
loaded the kilns.

When they're loaded, he
gets a call to come up

and fire the kilns off.

He was very nervous,
he did call Mr. Sconce,

supposably, and talked with him.

And I think...

I think at that point, David must
have known that the gig was up.

He says, "I don't know,
but hide the stuff."

I go, "David, we can't... We
can't hide any more things.

It's too late. We're
in trouble now."

So, I hung up with him, I
went outside, got the key,

opened the door. They came in.

One we got inside,

instantaneous, you can tell
there's something wrong,

from the smell of it all.

When you first walk in, there's
soot all over the walls.

The soot's so oily,

it's sticking to your shoes.

If you touch anything, it
would get on your clothing.

And we're all wearing suits, so we
tried to be as careful as possible.

There were barrels
of prosthesis around,

because prosthesis don't burn.

It really kinda took you back.

I go, "I'm not opening that
oven, you can't make me.

"You open it. You wanna
see what's in there?

Open it."

...they stopped it
from being cremated.

So, it's just like a bunch
of bodies still in there.

So, I went outside, you know.
I didn't want to see all that.

We took the opportunity to open one
of the kilns to see what was inside,

and there were multiple
bones from the whole process,

even some flesh that had
not been totally burned yet.

Upon opening the kilns, we saw
burning material falling out.

I did see what looked like
a human skull in there.

In front of the kilns,

they had cut trenches
about four inches wide

that ran out into the
back of the facility,

primarily to capture the human fat that
was burning off of all these bodies.

This is beyond anything I could
really comprehend in my own mind.

It's a surreal situation.
Do you really believe

what you're seeing, even
though you're seeing it?

You kinda wonder what type of people
were doing this type of operation.

I don't know, it was
probably close to 200.

Right around in there,
150, 200 when they...

when they came and
shut the ovens down.

At a time.

Yeah.

Because of the fire in Pasadena,

I used Hesperia before
it was really ready.

And that was a bad choice.
I made that choice.

I'm the only one
to blame for that.

Yeah, I could say, well, I wanted
to keep all my people employed.

So, I needed to not interrupt anything
that was working towards the ultimate end.

But it doesn't justify
what I did, see?

I should have been more selfish
and shut everything down,

and done it right.

But I was in a hurry.

Permits. Conditional
use permits.

Sure, that was still gonna go
on. That was still gonna go on.

I was working late
at the office,

and a story came over the wire
from the San Bernardino Sun.

It was a very short story.

The guy they said was responsible
was David Sconce of Pasadena.

I thought, okay, he's local.

And I just got out the phone
book. This is all pre-computers.

And I started calling people named
Sconce, and there were a number of them.

I asked questions about
this illegal crematorium.

About the fourth one, the
guy picked up the phone

and he just started
screaming and yelling,

you know, "Fuck you!
Who the fuck are you?"

And I thought, "Okay, this is
him," you know, "I got him."

I found out he owned
Pasadena Crematorium.

And I called the number
in the phone book,

and they answered the
phone, "Lamb Funeral Home."

They had the same
telephone number.

I knew the Lambs were the Lambs.

They were prominent people,
I knew who they were.

So, I went to one
of the editors,

and I said, "Something
is happening here,

and it could be pretty wild."

So, we did a story
the following day,

which I wrote, and it said,
"Here he is, David Sconce,

and he's, you know, affiliated
with the Lamb Funeral Home."

I started to get phone calls.

People were very supportive of the
Lambs and were, you know, outraged

that we would be
disparaging them in any way.

You know, "You should
be ashamed of yourself.

You shouldn't be
writing about this."

At that point in time,
I really did not know

what crimes had been violated,

other than maybe the pollution
end of it, environmental health.

But from a criminal standpoint,
we really didn't know what we had.

We did serve the search
warrant in Pasadena

at the Lamb Funeral Home.

That was our first
search warrant.

And I had an opportunity
to walk around the place,

had an opportunity
to meet Laurieanne.

The sweetest lady you
ever want to talk to.

I asked her lots of questions
about the operation,

and she was more
than willing to talk.

She had no concept
of what was going on.

I saw the business office, and
there were photographs on the walls.

Embalming photographs.

We started collecting evidence.

Then, we went back into
their cold storage.

We saw hundreds of bodies

wrapped up in cardboard.

There were body
parts. It was ghastly.

And I'm thinking, these
people are lawfully dead.

What do we really have here?

Was there more criminal
activity going on?

And who else was involved?

Our second search warrant
was on Lamb Senior's home.

Just like approaching his house,
it's a big, beautiful house.

Beautiful furnishings,
very cooperative people.

These people had to have resources,
had to have some influence.

I got the impression that Lamb
Senior was a stand-up guy.

He was a part of that
community forever.

He probably did
cremations one at a time,

and somehow, the family
members went awry.

Lamb, the elder, he
was a decent man.

Straight as an arrow,
everything by the book.

In this business, you
don't mass cremate.

It's illegal, it's a state
law, and it's inhuman.

And anti-everything I believe in

is not to treat a loved one of a
family with dignity and respect.

So, we don't mass
cremate. We can't.

All of a sudden, Dave Sconce's
case blew up wide open.

Other mortuaries
start reading it.

Supposedly, Lamb told
his daughter, actually,

"Your son will ruin my name."

When the first search of
the premises took place,

I got thrown in the backseat
of a Pasadena police car,

and they're all running
around the mortuary

looking for stuff, and
they left empty-handed,

and we don't know what
they were looking for.

He was in the back of the car.

He was, you know, very aware
that he was performing.

He could be scary,
he could be charming.

And in that particular instance,
you know, as I'm saying...

waving goodbye to him,

he made this crazed face.

Like Charles Manson, you know?

Looked like a homicidal maniac.

My boss said, "Oh, we
can't use that picture.

He looks horrible." And
I said, "He is horrible."

Come on. This is him.
This is what he did.

We didn't ask him
to do anything.

This is, you know, one of his
expressions, and he looks nuts.

San Bernardino
County investigators

returned to the ceramics
building last night

with shovels and
a search warrant.

But authorities would
not say if they recovered

any more partially
cremated bodies.

The Hesperia building was
owned by the Sconce family.

Sconce and his
father are accused

of environmental
violations and grand theft.

They're accused of taking gold fillings
from bodies that were cremated,

charges they say are
absolutely ridiculous.

There were no improprieties with
the operation either in Altadena

or the subsequent
operation in Hesperia.

And we've been really, really
misquoted, misunderstood, and...

and just crucified in the
press for about a week.

Both were arrested last
week and released on bail.

The investigation is nowhere
complete at this time.

It's a very involved case,
and will take a lot of time

to establish
certain information.

One day, I was going
to the grocery store,

and I picked up the LA Times,

and I read about the Lamb
Funeral Home scandal.

I about fell down in the
parking lot, I did not know.

And I was shocked.

I was devastated that they
desecrated my father like this.

I can't think of the words
to describe how I feel...

Daughter Darlynn says before he died
of a heart attack two years ago,

Branton asked that
his body be cremated,

the ashes distributed to
members of his family.

But the Lamb crematory service
allegedly cremated his body

with others in the same
oven, commingling the ashes.

I have what I thought was
my father's ashes here,

but apparently, they are
not my father's ashes.

I had been working for the Sconces,
say, maybe seven, eight months

as a truck driver, delivering,
picking up human remains.

When I got to the mortuary
and Johnny comes out and says,

"We got busted,"
I felt relieved.

Like, finally, you know, finally. You
know, "We got busted, we got busted!"

And I said, "Good,
that's awesome."

When I went to go get
my stuff out of Hesperia

and move back home, got
home at 2:00 in the morning.

They were waiting for
me across the street.

Sheriff's investigators in
San Bernardino County today

announced the arrest
of another suspect

in connection with the operation

of an illegal crematorium in
the desert town of Hesperia.

This person who was arrested
yesterday is a John Daniel, Pollerana.

They arrested everybody
that worked at the mortuary.

They arrested everybody who was down
there because it was a shotgun effect.

Everybody they saw, they arrested,
and then sorted it out later.

Got me too, you know.

They detained me for
about three hours

and kept asking me the same
questions over and over again.

And finally, I
think to scare me,

they put me in general
population for about an hour.

And it scared me.

And I told him, I said, "You tell
me what you want me to tell you,

and I'll tell you,
I want outta here."

I couldn't get David to talk,
or Jerry Sconce, or Laurieanne.

But in the meantime,

my phone was just ringing off the hook
with ex-employees who wanted to say,

"Hey, let me tell you
about this place."

And they had some
wild tales to tell.

They were talking about pulling
the gold out of the teeth,

and David's attitude toward the
bodies, almost gleefully doing deeds

that would really
shock most people.

I really don't
remember him being nice

about anything to anybody,
especially a dead body.

He'd pick up a body like
this, you know, like a book,

and he's walking around
like that, you know.

He would talk to 'em, like,
"What happened to you, huh?"

You know, slap 'em a little
bit, or touch 'em on the belly.

How sick is that?

That's his sense of
humor, very cold.

Most of David's employees

were glad to be able to
talk about this stuff.

But they were scared because they
said this guy had a long history

of hurting people.

At that point in time, all we
had was the cremation of bodies.

Those would all have been, at
best, maybe some misdemeanors,

maybe some environmental
health issues.

Unless we had some
felonies to work with

to drive the case on,
we wouldn't have enough

to bring about some
type of prosecution.

There was a task force that I recall
being part of that included the police,

district attorney,

probably a representative
from the cemetery board.

And they were very, very
interested in my work

because of the audit that I had
done at the Lamb Funeral Home.

My job was to audit
pre-need trust accounts.

Pre-need's just going
in and discussing

with the funeral director
exactly what your needs are,

and paying for it
prior to the demise.

The funeral director then is charged
with safekeeping those monies.

And there are certain rules
that go along with that.

Well, the prior year,

in 1986,

I'd just went out to
the Lamb Funeral Home

to do a routine audit
of their trust funds.

I just went in
like I normally do.

Sport coat, tie, briefcase,
state of California.

I recall Laurieanne Lamb
sitting at the front desk.

That was the first
time I ever saw her.

And as many years ago as it is, I
can recall it like it was yesterday.

She kinda had poofy hair,

and there might have been
a light shining behind her,

because honestly,
in my lifetime,

that's the closest I've
ever seen to an aura.

I mean, I just
went, "Oh, my God."

She was just different.

She was just the most perfect
person to do what she did,

and her manner was just so...

it wasn't maudlin, it
was just, "All I wanna do

is just take care of families.
I just wanna counsel 'em."

That was her reason for being,

was to just serve families
in their time of grief.

She just glowed.

Pretty amazing. I'll
never forget that.

But it turned out that
there was a problem.

Laurieanne had all of
these pre-need accounts

that she's taken money
for that weren't reported.

I think about 170
accounts. That alone...

that's a violation.

She's, "Oh my goodness. Please
tell me what I'm supposed to do."

She's very upset that they
had done something wrong,

and wanted to do everything
to make it right.

I said, "You need to get
that money into an account,

and you've gotta start
reporting them to the board."

"No problem. And I'm not
gonna take any more money.

"I'm gonna set 'em up
in passbook accounts.

We're just trying to run this
business the best we can."

Okay.

And you know, I mean, I had
no reason not to believe her.

Well, she never did any of that.

And by the time I was
meeting with this task force,

we knew that Laurieanne had raked
about $100,000 worth of interest

off of those accounts.

That's grand theft.

Now, a district attorney could
charge 'em with a felony.

Once we discovered
the financial crimes,

we went back into the
station and we discussed

what our next move
is going to be.

And in our office, we
had the photographs

from the funeral home,
along with other evidence.

And we had two great
deputy coroners.

They walked in, they
looked at the photographs.

What I thought was embalming,

they looked at immediately,
and guess what?

They said, "They're
harvesting body parts."

They could look at those photographs,
see the peeling of the skin back.

Tissues were being removed.

Harvesting body parts,

it brought new dynamics
to our investigation.

I witnessed a few
extractions of body parts.

It was common knowledge around there
in the people that worked there

that they were harvesting
organs to sell.

There was a room that had
a bunch of tools and junk.

That's where he did the teeth
extractions and the organ harvesting.

As soon as I'd
bring the truck in,

they'd rush out there
and check the bodies.

They would mark it
"Whole" or "Donor."

David would show up and,
"Okay, let's go to work."

He had a couple of guys there
that they looked like doctors.

You know, taking the eyeballs out,
and livers, and hearts, and stuff.

I could see what they were
doing. The body was all cut up.

I was picking up a body at a mortuary,
and there was this guy, George Bristol,

I didn't know who he was,
but he was back there

and he was doing something,

like, he had surgical
equipment on the table.

And I'm an embalmer, and
I knew that wasn't stuff

I'd ever seen before.

Okay, there's a thing
called a slit lamp

which actually mows the
cornea off your eyeball

in a hygienic kind of a
way that doesn't ruin it.

So, "Hey, what are you doing?" And
I met him, and we started talking,

and he was working for
UCLA Doheny Eye Bank.

And I said, "Well,
dude, I get, like...

"probably 1,000
dead people a month

"through my facility,
and if only 100 of 'em

are viable, that's a whole
lot of corneas you can move."

So, George started doing some
research with me, and I formed

the Coastal International
Eye and Tissue Bank.

David set up an operation

on the grounds of
the funeral home.

And he hired people

from established
organ-donation businesses,

and established ties
with medical companies

all over the world.

We got the account back east

at Carolina Biological,
which I thought was great.

It was a pretty good-sized deal.

Hundred for a heart, hundred for a brain,
hundred for a set of lungs, and all that.

Now, you can't
sell human tissue,

but you can bill people for your
time in making it available, 'kay?

That's how you get around it.

And, I mean, if you think about
it, why wouldn't you do it?

It doesn't make any sense to me to waste
stuff when it can help other people.

They would take skin from
people for burn victims.

Eyes... not just
corneas, but whole eyes,

hearts, lungs, brains, bones.

They got $55 to
cremate this corpse,

and now it's worth
all kinds of money.

Like car parts, you know, like
you strip a car down and sell it.

Every body, you know, was
all its own little goldmine.

My relationship with my
dad when I was very young,

it was mixed, frankly.

I think he had a lot of PTSD.

He was born in Germany.

He was an adolescent the
beginning of World War II.

He had a horrible life.

He was very rigid.
He drank a lot.

But he did love us
really fiercely.

He really did, and you know, the
older he got, the more he softened.

I just saw such a huge change
in him when I got married.

And when I became pregnant, he
was really excited about that.

He would have been a
fantastic grandfather.

On September 20th, 1986, he
had a stroke and he died.

The Lamb family mortuary
handled the cremation.

We took a truck
out to the desert,

my mom, and my husband,
and my sister, and...

because that was his heart
and soul, out in the desert.

We said, you know, all these nice
things and spread these ashes.

And then, when we find out

they just scooped up whoever, whatever,
and that's what we left in the desert.

And just, that was just so sad.

I believe it was a few months later, we
were told what they had taken from him.

It was just so...
again, you know,

astonishing that this keeps getting worse,
you know, that they took his brains,

his eyes, you know.

We were all in shock,
in absolute shock.

My dad was floating around
in hospitals everywhere,

being picked at and
studied, and you know,

he didn't agree to that,
we didn't agree to that.

I talked to a lot of family
members, and they were very rattled.

They were angry,
they were upset.

I found out actually
on the news.

It just, like somebody hit
you over the head with a bat.

I never discussed anything

about donating organs
or anything like that,

which I would have
absolutely go against.

A lot of the families were bitter,
especially toward Laurieanne.

She was the face of
the funeral home.

She dealt with the bereaved.

She advised people, gave
them the papers to sign.

Everyone was wondering if
she knew what was going on.

I looked at her as my mom.

She was so sweet.

You know, she's willing to make
you a cake, if you wanted it.

But, on the other hand, there was
a very dark side on that woman.

Looks are deceiving,
let me tell you.

I remember going to
the family's house,

picking up their grandpa,
and everybody is just crying.

And Laurieanne called me
on the radio and said,

"Hon, if the body's still warm, open
up his eyelids and see if his eyes

"are watery, or are they dry?

"And if they're dry, there's a
bottle in the glove compartment.

Get that bottle and put a couple of
drops in each eye, and then call me."

After that, it was every day.

"Is the body warm,
honey? Is the body warm?"

She was very pious, churchy,

and people trusted her.

Apparently, she kept
ashes in her office.

She had a chart all worked out.

How much ash to put in an urn,
how much an adult male would be,

what an adult female
would be, a baby.

There were babies
involved in this thing.

Can you imagine?

The side hustle, the
teeth and the gold,

Jerry, I'm sure, had been
doing that from day one,

since he married
into that family.

One day, I saw Jerry rooting
around in this person's mouth.

He just reaches in and pulls
a couple of gold teeth out.

Puts 'em in a Styrofoam
cup, and he goes,

"That's how we can afford
to pay you what we pay you."

Multiple cremations, gold, ash.

My parents did all of that
before me, all of that.

-Well...
-Yeah.

My mom's dad did that before it.

My grandfather, Lawrence
Lamb, had a lot of money.

He was very business-oriented.

I have one thing I never forgot.

It was Christmas, and all the families
were all together at the house

on Orange Grove, at
my grandparents' home.

I'm a little kid, and I
remember being positioned

with all the cousins, and
all the family behind.

My grandfather's standing out there,
and he had a camera, and he said,

"Smile. Say 'money.'"

He didn't say "cheese."
He said, "Say 'money.'"

This was learned
through generations.

So, if you wanna say,

"fruit of the poisonous
tree," there you go.

As this criminal investigation
into David Sconce continued,

the police found all
this incremental stuff,

but it got, you know,
progressively worse.

It came out that he had his guys

beat up these rival
funeral home directors,

several of them.

And in particular, there
was this Tim Waters guy,

who was savagely beaten
up and wound up dead.

So, police started digging.

And they had a lucky break.

It turns out, the night
Tim Waters was beaten up,

some neighbor saw two guys

sitting outside of his place
of business in Burbank,

eating and dumping their
trash out the window.

And give 'em credit, the Burbank
police picked this stuff up

and put it away in
an evidence locker.

It sat there for, Jesus,
two and a half years?

And when things started to
unravel, well, they said,

"Let's check on this
evidence that we found."

The clearest prints were
on a small carton of milk.

And sure enough,

there's Danny
Galambos' fingerprints.

All roads led back
to David Sconce.

They were clearly
known associates.

They didn't know who we were

till they got to Danny Galambos.

They brought him in,
they asked him questions,

and he was singing
like a canary,

corroborated all the information
about the Tim Waters beating.

And they knew that the guy died.

Once Danny Galambos
was arrested,

he told the police
David told him,

"I poisoned this
guy and he died."

And Danny said, you know, that
David had bragged about this to him.

So, the DA's office says, "Hey, you
know, we should take a look at it."

Back in 1985, when
Tim Waters died,

the medical examiner
did an autopsy.

It was ruled a heart attack.

They found nothing suspicious.

But the thing is, they didn't
look for anything suspicious.

But they did keep
tissue samples.

And then, in 1987,
the DA's office

orders these tissue
samples to be analyzed.

They didn't do the toxicology
report when Tim Waters died.

It was only when this came up again
that they conducted those tests.

And they found an extract of
poison made from oleander.

Oleander bushes are everywhere
in Southern California.

At the end of streets, houses
have them surrounding them.

Around my house at
the time in Pasadena,

there were tons of
oleander bushes.

They found that it was
oleander poisoning.

It's chilling.

Now, this is all just hearsay.

But the word was, David has lunch
with him someplace in The Valley.

Tim Waters dies.

And people said, "If David
Sconce is gonna buy you lunch,

just tell him you've
already eaten."

The police were looking
into all of this.

But in the meantime,
the district attorney

was ready to file the charges
against David and his parents

for the offenses at
the funeral home.

Roger Diamond, my attorney,

said that my parents and I should show
up because they're gonna file charges.

And okay, so we all drive
to Pasadena like we're told.

David Sconce and his parents

are accused of embezzling funds
from prepaid funeral accounts,

of illegally removing
and selling body tissue,

and of cremating bodies together
without the consent from next of kin.

So, we appear in court,

and we're each supposed
to have a $5,000 bail.

Well, I'm 31 years old. I've
never been in trouble, ever.

My parents posted their bail.

And when they wanted to post my bail,
the district attorney, Walt Lewis,

went over to Roger and he said,

"Hey, I'm sorry I had to lie
to you about David's bail."

'Cause he'd raised it up to
a half a million dollars.

His attorney, Roger
Diamond, went nuts.

This bail request for $500,000 is
really shocking. I don't believe...

And then, the judge said,
"Hey, if it were up to me,

"it'd be a lot higher, because
he's, A, a flight risk,

and B, he's a
menace to society."

So, they swoop in and
took me right to jail.

I was housed on "D Row"

in the LA County Jail
in what they call

"the high-power section,"
which is where they keep

who they consider
influential gang members,

celebrities.

So, everybody from Sean Penn

to some of the most horrendous
murderers you've ever seen,

all on this one tier.

And we always knew, like,
who was coming on the tier.

So, Sconce becomes
an inmate on D Row.

And he appeared to be this
unassuming Richie Cunningham,

just a white-bred kid
that didn't belong.

He wasn't a gangster.

He was just a little pussy
that came in off the streets.

My very first night in jail,

I was terrified. Terrified!

Man, I was crying for
somebody to bail me out.

So, David became like
my next-door neighbor.

And we discussed everything...
me, him, lifestyles.

He did admit to commingling bodies, but
he said, "Well, everybody does that."

You know, you
throw three or four

in whatever, the cremator,
or whatever it's called,

and divvy up the ashes,
and everything's good.

But there came a point
where you could just see

when he was telling stories

where he would become
either overly animated,

or kind of excited about shit
that the average human being

would go, "What the fuck?" And I'm
a criminal, I'm not some sadist.

Whereas I would say his
mask started to come down.

And he, at one point, I
recall, told me that he had...

I wanna say it was an
Anarchist Cookbook.

But he had done some research,

reading books on how to kill people
without leaving, you know, signs.

I remember David telling me

about putting something in
somebody's spaghetti at a restaurant.

But I couldn't tell
you whose it was.

And was kinda proud of the fact
that he had outsmarted everybody,

which is the equivalent of,

"Yeah, I did it, but they're
never gonna fuckin' get me."

I told the DA David Sconce
would talk about the things

that he wanted done
in an open setting.

From what I understand,
he had a book

that had different
formulas for poisons.

He had this book, and he had it

in the car with him, and
he would read things to me.

If we were riding together,
he'd read things to me.

It was called The
Poor Man's James Bond.

And it had sneaky ways of
hurting and killing people.

And he... it was cute.

He would talk all the time
and read all this stuff,

and, "Listen to this,
and listen to this."

I really never figured he
would do anything like that.

They asked me, and I
said, "I know he likes

"to read that stuff and
talk about that stuff,

"but I think he's all talk.

I don't think that he'd really
ever do anything like that."

So, I was defensive
of him at that point.

But they found the
book in his car,

and I found the book
his car. I read it.

When he mentioned the
oleander, it was like,

"Oh, this stuff,
you can't trace it.

It's a natural, you know,
so nobody will ever know."