Original subtitles

I never in all the years I've been doing this grand sport remember so much

anticipation and buildup to one match, not only in pro wrestling amongst our

fans, but in the sports world.

Malone never dreamed as a little kid being a basketball player.

He dreamed of being a wrestler.

I think the tag match involving Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman was one of the

highlights of my career.

I've got Phil Jackson calling me going, where's my guy at? Where's my guy at?

I'm going, Robin, Phil Jackson keeps blowing up my phone. You got to go back.

goes, I don't want to go back.

All the lines were blurred.

When he hit me with the diamond cutter, I said, thank God it's over.

The allegiance switched from WWE to WCW.

We were really, really running hard. We had everybody's attention. Everybody

wanted to be involved.

So they're looking for like, what can we do that the other show doesn't have?

And so WCW goes to the tried and true well of celebrities and pro wrestling

matches.

I just think it's something so special.

to take a celebrity that's really, really established and take them out of

element and just see the reaction of how they react and how the fans react to

them.

It's easy to laugh at some of these matches. You know, you can make fun of

Arquette or whoever for all you want. But this is a part of wrestling history

going back to its very earliest days. You know, we had like world boxing

champions would come referee wrestling matches just to like give wrestling that

little sheen of significance in the sports landscape.

And then to take those athletes and bring them into the world of sports

entertainment, it gets a ton of media coverage. And I think the additional

coverage in and of itself.

is one of the reasons why the audience gets excited about it.

What

WCW

did in 98 was, I think they kind of shocked everybody because they didn't go

the regular well of football players. They went to the pro basketball world

they got... Karl Malone of the Utah Jazz and Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls.

He and Karl Malone are squaring off in the finals. The Bulls and the Jazz are,

guess, for the second year in a row.

And they're both power forwards. They're guarding each other on every

possession. Rodman is notoriously, like, pesky defender.

His only job out there is to make Karl Malone's life a living hell.

It's very organic, you know? I mean, these guys already hate each other. They

just sort of end up having a match in WCW. Somehow it makes all the sense in

world.

Dennis Rodman, the worm, is here.

The opening moments of WCW Monday Night Trial.

Hulk Hogan, Dennis Rodman.

Together, Eric Bischoff in tow.

And two men who will form a gigantic tag team at the main event at Bash at the

Beach.

Rodzilla was perfect because he was a monster. He was a monster with his

life in public.

Wherever he went, he created chaos.

When Dennis and WCW first started working together, Dennis wanted a tour

So I said, well, what the hell? It's not that big of a deal. We'll get him a

tour bus for four or five days or a week.

And it was towards the end of the night and after an event, and Dennis said, you

know, I want to stop at a gentleman's club.

And I said, well, what the hell? You know, the night's over.

That's what he wants to do. You know, no problem. So there was a number of high

-profile names in sports entertainment who were part of the the crew, and we

went into the gentlemen's club.

And everybody had a great time, and it was starting to get late.

And I'm looking around, and I'm like, okay, where's Dennis?

Has anybody seen Dennis?

Couldn't find Dennis.

So I went up to one of the security guys that were part of our team and said,

hey, I haven't seen Dennis here for, you know, 45 minutes or an hour, any idea

where he is, because we should probably wrap this up, you know, get out of here.

And he says, I think he's out on the bus.

Hmm. All right, well, I'll go out on the bus and see what's going on.

And not expecting anything. I thought maybe he's sleeping out on the bus or

whatever, having a beer, you know.

Didn't know what to expect. And got out there, and there was a couple security

guys, you know, standing outside the bus. And they opened the door for me and

said, are you sure you want to go in there? And I went, yeah, why not? You

I know Dennis pretty well. We're cool.

And I walked in that bus, and it was like a scene from Caligula.

I went, oh, this is going to be a long work.

I like the way you think, though. I learned from you that bust last year,

remember?

Wow, I'm to a bust, brother.

I mean, it was like, because if you hear stories about wrestlers back then in

the 70s and 80s and 90s, they was just blown just out of control.

I mean, they would just sit there, party all day, party all night. And I think

that's the reason why they like me being in that situation, because they knew I

could handle that.

And for me to be involved with Bischoff and all those guys, man, that was just

like icing on the cake for me.

Because, you know, living in Texas, Dallas, Texas, when they had the Van

had the Van Derks back in the day, that's all we watched was wrestling back

then. You know, it was like wrestling or Dallas Cowboys.

That was it.

You know, that was it for us, the whole culture there.

So wrestling, I watched it every Sunday, man, relentlessly.

And I said, I got no problem doing that. And I always wanted to do it. I'm glad

he made sure I fastened me.

There they go. Hey, he locked up, guys.

How about that?

Andre! Wow!

This place has went crazy.

Dennis Rodman has undressed the total package.

Look back at, like, gorgeous George.

And we've seen a lot of wrestlers with bleached hair and robes since then, but

at the time, to have like curled hair that was bleached blonde, to have

spraying perfume behind you, to have like a fine sequined robe or whatever

coming to the ring, this was just a signifier of everything you're supposed

hate in the world.

And Dennis Rodman had a very specific sense of style. I'm sure he was very

it himself, but he would dress in drag specifically just to like make people

mad. He was trying to become a heel, and he succeeded at it.

Well, Rodman had an incredible amount of heat. He was anti -establishment, anti

-athlete. He would drink 75 kamikazes and go set another record on the

basketball court, and then drink 75 more kamikazes after the game. We had

Instagram, social media back then. I would tell people, I'd be a f***ing

billionaire.

I'll tell you straight up.

I think a lot of people started to really dig what I was doing.

They said, wow, this guy is not basketball.

He's just an all -around entertainer, period.

Knowing all that, he knows how to win.

He knows how to win every department of life.

He knows how to win everywhere.

So when he transcended over to our business and walked in a main event

everybody hated it.

Even the wrestlers hated it. Everybody wanted to see him get his ass kicked.

The wrestlers in the back wanted to see it even more than the fans. Because he

was arrogant, he wouldn't show up on time.

We'd have ring time set aside for all of us to work out. We had very busy

schedules. He'd come walking in an hour and a half, two hours late. I could

smell booze all over his breath.

But when the red light went on and we were live in front of the camera, he was

genius.

How'd it work?

Man with style, man with class, the NWO comes to town, it's a new world, baby.

That's what it's going to be, me and my good friend.

It's for life.

Rodman was my guy. You know, I knew him forever, and we were really close

friends.

But Diamond Dallas Page bonded with Malone.

I was at this big autograph signing in Houston, Texas. I was actually there for

two days.

And someone said to me, hey, do you want to go to see the Rockets play tonight?

I said, absolutely.

I want to go and check the game out. And they go, oh, they're playing Utah Jazz.

I was like, oh, man, love to see Malone play.

Well, when he rose up, and they're at just a little timeout, and

Malone is looking up, and he does this.

Ross Foreman, who's our photographer, was like, oh, my God.

Who just did the diamond cutter sign? And he starts grabbing for his camera.

What a camera.

And he sent backstage passes for me and Ross Foreman. And at some point, I get

a, hey, Carl's outside.

So I walk outside. I'm like, hey, man.

Gives me a big hug, super, you know, big personality.

And, you know, here's my number, bro.

I said, we can change numbers. And I said, if you ever want to, like, get in

ring and, like, play around a little bit, I go, I can make that happen really

easily.

Great athlete. All he needs is to know the moves and the science. And Diamond

Dallas Bays has been spending 24 hours a day.

If you look at Carl Malone back then, take the old pictures, he looked like a

wrestler. I mean, he was built for it.

I heard Rodman was coming

in again.

And I thought Dennis did a phenomenal job the first time because he embodied

heel. He embodied the showman.

He'd been watching our stuff since he was a little baby, you know, and loved

just like Carl.

I thought, hmm, I wonder if Malone would do this.

So I called him up, and I said, hey, big man, Rodman's coming in again. I

said, would you consider wrestling with me against

Rodman and Hogan?

Yeah, I think I would.

Now, Eric Bischoff lived on the other side of the hill.

Two houses away from me. We walked on his deck. We're having a beer.

I said, I got an idea.

I said, what if it was me and Malone against Rodman and Hogan?

And I thought, wow, that would be hard to believe that it could happen. So I

have to give a lot of credit to GDP for bringing Karl Malone into the picture.

To me, this guy right here is the hardest working man in professional

especially when it comes to basketball.

I know, but, you know, it's funny. I think they pitched that because of what

happened in the playoffs.

You know, we kept battling each other, kept hitting each other, kept elbowing

each other, stuff like that. I said, why not Carl Malone and Dennis Rodman?

And one of the reasons that I invested so much money in Carl and Dennis for

particular pay -per -view is because I knew that I would get advertising in

mainstream sports media that I could never afford to buy.

I knew that every sports writer would be criticizing both Carl and Dennis for

stepping into the world of sports entertainment because, geez, you're

professional athletes and you should never get involved with something like

that. I knew that wrestling media would be so super critical. All of that added

up to a ton of press, a ton of media that, like I said, we couldn't afford to

buy.

You know, Hulk Hogan's going to sell, sell, sell.

You know, so it's like, hey, you can always count on what the hell he's going

do. And then when you throw me in the mix, the bad boy NBA, and you got

and the guy from Utah.

It's like, wow, what a matchup.

There's nothing more important.

Oh, my goodness.

That was Rodman.

And Hogan.

You know, one of the highlights of that period of time was Dennis Rodman decided

to skip practice to attend a Nitro.

I knew it was going to create an issue within the Chicago Bulls and probably

Dennis. But I wasn't too worried about any ramifications with regard to WCW

because it was really Dennis' choice.

I've got Phil Jackson calling me going, where's my guy at? Where's my guy at?

I'm going, Robin, Phil Jackson keeps blowing up my phone. You got to go back.

goes, I don't want to go back. All the lines were blurred.

Jordan really didn't say too much to me because he knew the fact that no matter

what I did off the court, I'm there.

He didn't have to worry about me. I was always there to play.

I knew I couldn't.

Talked to Dennis and Carl about doing anything on court during play that would

help promote WCW.

But there was probably a conversation or two, wink, wink, where someone

may have said, hey, guys, if you get the opportunity off court during a stoppage

in play or during a timeout, do you have any kind of...

animated conversation between the two of you, if you get my drift.

That would only help.

I just wish that when we got into a fight, that would have been as exciting

moving a man up.

You know, to make it more interesting as far as a final.

Dennis Rodman, he was always pushing the envelope.

And he did wrestling. Ah, it's wrestling. You know, it's a circus.

When Malone did it, it changed the face of what was happening.

Malone never dreamed as a little kid being a basketball player.

He dreamed of being a wrestler.

Look around,

man. It's a part of American culture, world culture.

Didn't want to announce it, announce it. We were figuring out how we're going to

do it. And then one day it hit me. I call Eric up and I go, bro.

You know, I talked to Carl and he said, whether they win or lose, he's going to

be on The Tonight Show. We're not shooting this angle on The Wrestling

We're shooting this angle on The Tonight Show. The world stage with Jay Leno in

the middle. That was...

It was me, Hulk.

So anyway, so we're sitting there. I'm sitting there doing my interview. Hulk

comes out.

The next thing you know, here comes DDP. They come this way.

And it started to just get real quick. I mean, I didn't even expect that. Is

Malone a wimp? Did you just call Malone a wimp? I did.

You called Dennis? I didn't hear Dennis.

I did.

I call Carl a lot more than a wimp on the court, brother.

Really? A lot more than a wimp.

It comes to that point where me and Malone come through the wings, holding

chairs, throwing down the chairs, throwing up the diamond that he signed.

And, you know, Diamond Dallas Page has never really gotten his hands on me, so

it was the perfect opportunity for Diamond Dallas Page to kick my butt. I

realize he was going to do it for real.

TDP said, f*** me.

He said, f*** me, man. I got my one shot, man. Let me do this, man. Let me

this. So he did it, and it actually came out pretty good.

That's real, man.

The adrenaline was so high.

Drew Carey, I'll never forget.

Lionel came up to me later. Drew Carey said, oh, my God, was that real? Oh, my

God, that was intense.

The next

day, well...

Then it was pandemonium. This year we're going to Bash at the Beach 98 in San

Diego, and I think the entire sports world is awaiting this announcement.

I've seen press conferences before, you know, when big things happen, like big

things happen.

This was like the Super Bowl.

They were lined up everywhere.

There's three things I wanted to do growing up as a kid. I wanted to be a

trooper. I want to fly jets, and I want to wrestle.

I can't do those other two.

The only thing I'm thinking about is beating Rodzilla and that little sister

got with him, Hulk Hogan.

No one ever called him that, but I'll call him. He's a coward, a yellow

coward, and I'm looking forward to it.

These two guys were two of the greatest athletes I've ever been with. Karl

Malone.

had the most intense work ethic. When he told me he was going to do this, he

wanted to really do it. Like, he didn't want to do it where he came in and just

did one little thing and got out.

Like, he came and trained with me at the power plant on and off for weeks.

It was really uncomfortable working with Dennis in the very beginning in terms

of training because you could never really tell if he was paying attention.

When we were training together, and it was a limited amount of time to train

with Dennis, partly because of his schedule and partly because Dennis just

didn't like to prepare much. You could tell that he was picking it up, but he

didn't have the same intensity that Karl Malone did.

But game day for WCW, when the red light was on, he would shock you.

Rodman had a good feel for what we actually did in the ring from day one.

it's nice to work with somebody that the physicality and the placement and the

timing is already there. It's what we call them having it.

Rodman had it.

So did Karl Malone.

We decided to go to his bar.

And we all go to this bar, somewhere on the beach, stuff like that, drinking all

night, all night.

I remember that next day, I had to really reach really deep, man, to do

was drunk, man. I was, ooh.

And I used to ask this guy, how the fuck do you guys do this all the time? I

mean, drink.

First 15 minutes of that match, I was like, hell.

Once I started to get hit a little bit more, I was cool. I was fine, yeah.

You know, one can only imagine what activities that Dennis Rodman has

over the course of the past couple of weeks, and only a small portion of those

activities made the national press.

Some things he did we probably can't even talk about.

When Malone came out and took his shirt off and was there with DDP, the place

exploded.

Here's Carl, the mailman.

I was really surprised because I saw Dennis get a little intimidated. I was

supposed to actually rip Dennis' shirt off, but he told me to leave his shirt

on. I don't think he wanted to take his shirt off and stand next to Malone

because his car looks so jacked and so big.

It looks awesome, and he and DDT are here to fight. Ladies and gentlemen,

four... How come you didn't take your t -shirt off?

Who, me or him?

He took his off. I didn't take my shirt off. No, because, you know, after the

match, I did.

After the match, after the match, if we're doing to do a whole thing, I just

want people to see the shirt.

It's going to be Rodzilla and the mailman and the referee calls for the

And Rodzilla still has his glasses on.

Oh, he's cool.

You know, Carl's like, you know, he's like country diesel strong. You know,

that country born strong.

Look at the physique of the mailman. Tremendous shape. Diamond Dallas is a

shape. The moment when Rodman and Malone locked up. He and Hogan were quite a

tag team. They locked up.

The fans are loving this.

Like, just the physical contact.

Side headlock by Dennis Rodman. Just the moment of realizing, these guys are

actually trained to wrestle.

Into the ropes.

There we go.

Good move. To the floor.

I mean, it wasn't exactly like Hogan slamming Andre. It wasn't just like the

biggest finishing move you've ever seen at like a WrestleMania main event. But

that first lockup, this felt like a huge moment.

When he comes out, everybody just notices he's there.

DDP hooked it up collar and elbow with Rodman and just pulled him down to the

mat.

Wow. There's a class act.

So you spit at DDP at one point. Was that something that you guys talked

No.

No, because DDP, he... DDP was like a little selfish.

for a minute it's all

right now we're even let's go at it he'll look at me i'm like

okay you know okay let's do this all right let's do it and he'll sit there

hit me for real i mean literally hit me for real they're getting frustrated guys

But I think that I just did it because it was easier for me to do that than

anything else.

If I went over and got a chair and took outside the ring and stuff like that, it

would have got really ugly.

Grinding in a side headlock.

Rodman, look at DDP fight away.

I thought he delivered in all the spots that we needed. And into the ropes he

goes. Whoa!

Make it two up. Look at that.

As an athlete, I'm telling you. And when he added the match down, it looked

pretty sweet.

It's an awful confident -looking Carl Malone.

Look at the wings spread on him. I mean, from fingertip to fingertip. Like a

condor. You know, one of the things that really impressed me with Carl is

what he lacked in entering experience and technical ability,

he was able to make up for just in sheer strength.

For example, the body slam, Hulk Hogan. You go back and look at that.

It looks like he was throwing a 50 -pound bag of, you know, horse feed

How about that?

I've never been thrown around like that by any other man, even Andre.

Mullen had no bounds.

I mean, if he wanted you over there, he'd just throw you over there. I was

oh, my God, this guy's so strong.

And when he got in the ring, he had a certain feeling of peace where it was

I was in some market that was grabbing, trying to walk up to me and poking me in

the eye or stepping on my feet or tripping over me. He was there.

It's time to get the mail.

And then runs him down.

What he did, when he did that move, to be honest with you, I said, thank God

this is over.

When he hit me with the diamond cutter, I said, yeah, this is over.

The disciple's in, though.

The disciple is in.

Oh, he wipes out D .D.

they gave us an opportunity to be there and an opportunity for people to

actually see us, actually wrestle against each other.

I just wish the fact that they would have had us do a lot more doing that

Me and Carl Malone. I wish they would have had us doing some really, really

cool, interesting things with, you know, David Page and Hulk Hogan or even...

Randy Savage, all the guys that was back then, back in the day. I wish they

would have had me and Carl doing a whole lot of things. Even having me and Carl

just do like a whole match by ourselves.

When I look at all of the pieces, two high -profile athletes at the very peak

their careers, coming off the playoffs, stepping into the ring with Hulk Hogan,

who was and probably still is one of the most recognized names in sports

entertainment in the last 30 years.

That was something that I think had never happened before.

and will probably never happen again. It was an amazing accomplishment, and it's

one that I'm, it may not be the most successful thing I've ever done in this

industry, but in many ways, it's one that I'm most proud of.

When I look back at it now, it was just so special.

And when I watched the tape, I just catch myself grinning from ear to ear

an idiot because we pulled it off.

We talked about the second, third win that best football players, the

athletes will get.

And now he's smiling.

I think that looking back at celebrities who've been bothered, we've had a ton.

We've got a win for the Celebrities Hall of Fame.

Karl Malone needs to be in that win.

Final thoughts.

That's all the time Karl beat me.

No finals, no finals, no finals.

We got the ring. He didn't.

So he kicked my ass in the ring. That's okay.

That's okay.

That's my story.