Original subtitles

Come and do another series of misadventures.

It'll be fun.

We'll look after you.

Oh yeah, by the way, we'll get you to haul your own suitcase across the

because it'd make for good TV.

Oh yeah, we'll just drive across, but we want you to keep it authentic.

Thank you very much.

Literally.

The worst.

I'd embarked, somewhat foolishly, on an epic journey through Central Africa.

A month -long trip that would see me visit countries which some people

with somewhat negative preconceptions to see if that reputation is justified or

if we should be giving them a second chance.

So far, I've been to Uganda, seeing a country with an abundance of incredible

wildlife and spectacular waterfalls.

let down, in my opinion, by legalised homophobia.

Now I'd be heading into Rwanda, a place I'd hitherto associated with the horrors

of the 1994 genocide, to find out what the country has to offer.

Thank you.

I'm in Rwanda, and I'm about to embark on the second leg of my misadventure

triple.

the greatest trilogy since Star Wars, is what I'm hoping the reviews are going

to say.

Up until very recently, my only kind of association with Rwanda was, you know,

the genocide, and I've got recollections of watching the news stories, and

whenever people talked about Rwanda, that's what you'd associate with it.

However, two things have happened more recently.

One of those is that Britain is hoping to send some asylum seekers here to

asylum in this country.

Mighty, mighty red and white Arsenal of North London have started wearing Visit

Rwanda on their sleeves. Now, that seems a very trivial point, but the fact that

Arsenal Football Club have agreed to have that on their sleeves suggests that

there is something more to this country than we might have otherwise thought.

But how high are your expectations?

Really high. I expect it's going to be a lot like Arsenal. Start off promising,

sort of overperform, and then end up with disappointment at the end of the

episode.

My guide for the week would be Ippo, a performance artist whose work has

on building bridges between communities in the aftermath of the genocide.

Ippo, how are you doing, man?

You're here.

How are you doing, brother?

How's it going?

You can hug, don't worry. Welcome to Rwanda. Thank you so much, man. You

have to open the door for me.

We are very welcome in Rwanda. You should know that.

Welcome again. Thank you, man.

Thank you. Wow.

It's so good to see you. This is a great welcome.

So this is it, Rwanda?

Yeah, we are here. The country of honey and milk.

I'm vegan, so I don't have milk or honey.

You know I don't like comedy.

This is such a terrible start.

Ipo told me that we would be journeying across the length and breadth of a

country roughly the size of Wales, exploring its unique culture and

history. and enjoying once -in -a -lifetime encounters with its incredible

wildlife. We start by travelling down from the Ugandan border to the country's

capital, Kigali.

So you're Rwandan born and bred there, yeah? I am, yes.

In Britain, the only association we had with Rwanda was the conflict and what

went on back in 1994.

How has the country changed since then?

The country is now focusing on...

learning what happened and the root cause of what happened in 1994.

Okay. More than just being angrier and angrier and angrier. It doesn't solve

anything.

In the 1994 genocide, my dad is killed in front of me.

I live, you know, like a wild animal trying to survive.

How did I survive? Don't ask me. I don't know.

Just miracle, miracle, miracle.

I'm like, okay.

What do I do? I become a killer and then do revenge for my family. Do you think

about that? Yeah.

I tried to go in the military and hoping that I would get gun and maybe later

come back and do revenge.

Really? I attempted to go in the military.

I used to go back to where my dad was killed, to the church.

Outside of that church, that's where a Congolese medical doctor saw me.

And he helped me back to school.

Really? Yeah. Gave me money up until I finished my high school.

What, he just met you and paid for you to go to school?

After all that kindness, I realised that actually the ideology was what killed

her in the genocide.

Not... The people, not just fresh and blood of people.

I started my journey of making peace then.

That is an unbelievable story.

Coming through all of that and then becoming, you know, what you're doing

I mean, it's kind of inspirational in a way.

And how aware are you of, or do you even care about, the perception of Rwanda

outside of the country?

The name, some people don't even know how to pronounce.

Do you know how to pronounce it? Well, since I've got in the car with you, and

I've listened to you talk, I've realised that I've been mispronouncing it my

entire life.

Yeah. So, how do you pronounce it?

Rwanda. Rwanda.

Rwanda, yeah.

Rwanda. Close, yeah.

It feels like, do you know what happened there? Yeah.

You thought, I'm going to show him how to pronounce it, then I had a go, and he

thought, OK, do you know what?

That's close enough.

I haven't got time for this.

That is what happened, though, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

After

a

quick drive, we arrived in the capital, Kigali.

Home to exactly 13 % of the country's 13 million people.

Ipoh wanted to grab a pint to get to know each other better. So we headed

downtown to what turned out to be, essentially, a pub for toddlers.

Just smashing back a big old glass of milk.

Morning. Morning.

Thank you. Welcome. Congratulations. Great football team.

Arsenal, yeah. They don't have any vegan milk.

Oh, God.

What? I was just asking.

Vegan milk?

Like what?

Like oat or nut or... In a supermarket, you can get some. All right. But in a

milk bar, no. Which one are you going to have then?

Fermented milk.

Okay.

That's so thick.

Okay.

Thank you. Thank you.

Milk is significant in lots of cultures.

Yeah. If you go anywhere and they give you milk for respect, you don't... I

can't stand here, like, in a bar.

in a wine bar and stand and drink milk like this. It would be a horrible

taboo to break. Really? So this is the thing where you're drinking milk, you

have to respect it. You have to respect it. You sit down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sit down. This is not something you're swilling all over the

place and you have a conversation.

No, no.

If I go home and I tell my mom, oh, this guy, we shared milk. She understand

that we're good friends.

And if I say, my friend Richard Milk is coming, she would take as she would, to

care as she would care for me.

Is that right? That's how important it is? I mean, that's how big a thing it

Yeah. You want to try it?

Well... Cows are kept well here.

Cows are kept well here? Yeah. Look, I'll try... You've got... OK. I mean, I

haven't drunk milk in... It's good.

One, two, three.

How does it feel?

So delicious.

You don't have to laugh, it's delicious.

It's really nice. I mean, it tastes like yoghurt.

It tastes like really nice yoghurt.

So, now that we've had milk together, does that mean that we're friends now?

Yeah, we shared milk.

I'd only been in Rwanda a short time, but compared to almost every other

I've visited, it looked spotless, with not a scrap of litter anywhere.

Ipa, I want to... Well, look, I'm going to make this observation.

Yes. Kigali is incredibly clean, isn't it?

Now, let me just qualify that. I wasn't expecting it to be dirty.

But it just looks very well kept, doesn't it? It does. I mean...

After the genocide, everything was really dirty.

Destructions of houses, ruins.

But there's a cultural practice here, which is the last Saturday of the month.

Everyone who's over 18 has to go pick the rubbish off the ground,

and that's a collective thing. If you don't do it, you'll find.

Are you being serious?

I am. So everybody does it? It's mandatory?

Everyone has to do it. Regardless whether you are president or my mom was

rural area somewhere, they have to do it. That's amazing.

That activity called Umuganda.

Yeah, what's it called?

Umuganda. Umuganda.

Yes. It works with what's needed in a village.

Sometimes they would go and build a house for someone whose house is falling

apart. So it's not necessarily just litter picking. It's like you're doing

something beneficial for the community.

It also started by banning any plastic bag use.

Plastic bags are not allowed in this place? Not allowed. That is amazing.

Those are two pretty radical things.

I mean, from an outsider's point of view. Yeah.

I wasn't in Rwanda on the last Saturday of the month, but the production team,

being TV wankers, decided it would be fun for me to experience it anyway.

And so, dressed in a high -vis jacket that serves absolutely no purpose, I

the morning picking up litter that hadn't previously existed.

You've got a basket full of rubbish.

Yes. You are going to drop the rubbish and I'm going to pick it up. That's what

we're doing now?

Yeah. So we're simulating litter picking?

Yeah. And do you normally do it in a high -vis vest with one of these?

No. No. OK, give me the bag.

I'll take this.

Yeah.

Look at that.

Is it disgusting?

What you've just done is disgusting, yeah.

This is what you would be doing if you were here.

You're a real piece of shit, you know that.

Anyway, I'll be sitting here, you do that. Yeah, you chill out, man.

I'd hate for you to get tired.

What have you learnt from this experience?

What I've learnt about what happens here is that the last Saturday of every

month, they do a community thing where everybody over 18...

has to pick up rubbish and it's a great thing for the community. What I've

learned about television is that couldn't have been explained to me in a

Ron, well done.

Do I think it's a good thing? Yes. Am I impressed by it? Yes. Do I think you

could do it in Britain? Absolutely not.

I want you to imagine going to your hometown and suggesting to everybody

that we're going to spend the last Saturday of every month from eight in

morning till midday cleaning up rubbish.

I can't imagine what the response would be, but I imagine...

be something along the lines of, go fuck yourself.

We headed out of town, hoping to spend the day travelling east towards Akagira,

the country's largest national park.

On the way, we pulled over at the site of an otherwise innocuous hotel, the

place where Rwanda would house asylum seekers flown from Britain as part of

deal with the British government.

What do you think?

Uh...

Well, it looks all right from out here.

But what do you think about it in terms of being the receiving country?

We have refugees from Congo, from Burundi, from Afghanistan.

Most of the people in Rwanda who are, let's say, over 30 years, 35 years,

have been refugees at some point. All their relatives have been refugees. So

people would really appreciate the government receiving refugees.

An argument is that...

There's only so much room in the country. There's only so many resources

country. We can't take everybody.

Oh, God.

How do you, what do you feel about that? Do you think Rwanda could ever get to a

point where they feel like that?

Do you know what they used to tell refugees, Tutsi refugees who were

the country before 1994?

They told them, this is on record.

You can find it. That Rwanda is full like a glass of water.

If you pull in more, it's going to spill.

I don't think there's ever any country on earth that is too full to

receive vulnerable people.

It sounds like what you're saying is because of Rwanda's path, it's kind of

culturally set up to be welcoming to people who have come from difficult

situations. You got it. I think they are received well.

Again, of course, there might be some funny pronunciation like...

People can't pronounce the name of this country, for example.

Could you imagine doing a travel show not knowing how to pronounce the name of

the country?

We drove further east towards the national park through stunning

After a few hours, EPO announced we'd be spending the afternoon making

indigenous art at a cooperative in a local village.

She's going to get some finished water. Okay. Yeah. Are you annoyed by those

flowers? Not at all. Not at all. I like it.

It's cool.

Oh,

wow. These are beautiful, aren't they?

They're very nice.

She's explaining that this is wood and the colours, the way they do it, it's

done by hand.

And she's saying that there's cow poop and colours and everything.

What did she say?

Cow poop.

This is cow poop?

Why did he choose cow poop?

Is

that

a ball of cow poop there?

Which one?

Yeah. The one that looks like a ball of carpet. I know, I see.

Yeah, that's... I

don't know why I

said it.

So we've arrived at this cooperative where a group of artists have got

and what they used to do to try and get money was poach and do all sorts of

things, and they decided to try and find a more positive way.

of making some money so what they do now is they create these incredible pieces

of art these kind of tiles and stuff and they sell them to tourists and there's

a place down the road that they sell them and they've turned this into kind

like an arts hub so we came down here uh basically to have a look at some of the

work to have a chat and to have a go at doing some of our own full disclosure i

don't really as a rule like handling and being in and around

Are they indoors, the cows, or outdoors?

Indoors. Indoors, oh, the barn. So we're going to a barn to pick up cow poop?

Yes.

It's actually quite a nice little setup. They've got smoke there to keep the

flies off the cows. The cows look well fed.

And then you just go in there and you help yourself to some shit.

Ready?

Why do they wear these shoes?

Let's go.

Okay. Good luck.

They just found one that is fresh, fresh poop.

Do you want to pick that or do you want to pick the other one?

Which one's the fresh one?

That's one.

Which one? This one here?

Yeah. Okay. Do you want to get it?

What do you want?

I've done it before.

No, you've never done it before. You're so full of that.

Okay. You've not done it before. Go for it. Okay, I'll get it.

Or we could do it together.

You use two hands like... Oh, no.

Take a quick one.

That's a good one.

It's good shit.

I thought it was probably going to be one of those things where you pick it up

and it's like a bit malleable and pliable, but it doesn't leave much on

hands.

Oh, the consistency is so horrible.

Oh, OK, let's go.

Ron, it's going to rain.

I know.

So, we've started to absolutely tip it down.

Amazingly, this family in this house, just no questions asked, let us stand in

there and wait with this poo in our hands.

Thank you for letting us shelter in here.

I think we might be here for a while.

There's a time limit on how long you can stand in a stranger's home with three

massive balls of fat.

Not here.

Just imagine if you turned up at someone's house in the UK and you

knocked on their door and you said, I'm sorry to trouble you.

I'm taking this shit down the road and it started raining.

Might I wait in your living room?

I mean, they're not letting you in.

I would describe it as a cultural difference.

One of the things I've learned so far, if it's raining, you've got some shit in

your hands, someone will let you in here.

And that's different to Britain.

Okay, full disclosure, I can't do that.

Can you do that? You're an artist.

I'm not sure I can, but let's try.

I've got to be honest, I knew that we couldn't do it very early on and I

thought, let's just finish it.

Do you know what I mean? Let's just finish.

Okay, I think we're good, aren't we?

You think we can stop there?

It's so bad.

Now...

Fortunately, you filmed the making of this, because otherwise you'd be

for thinking that I just squatted over it while Ipoh just spun this around.

With my hands still covered in cow shit,

we headed into Akagira, the country's largest national park, which stretches

over 400 square miles along its eastern border.

we'd be guided by one of the local rangers, Isaac.

Oh, man, look at that.

Oh, God.

So, Isaac, what kind of animals are we going to see here?

We're going to see some zidras.

Yeah.

Jilaf.

Hippos, buffaloes, some lions also here in the north of the park. Okay.

How high can the lions jump, Isaac, just because, you know, it's quite an open

vehicle?

They can jump up to two metres.

And do they prefer light or dark meat, just so I know if they're going to go

us or the crew?

They like dark because the animals... That's a show.

So what are the origins of this park, Ipo?

This park was the biggest in Rwanda before 1994, and

actually it's named after the river that is around it on the east, which is the

border with Tanzania. Actually, you can see those mountains over there are

Tanzania's. Oh, really? Yeah, that's Tanzania.

After the genocide, the whole park was used as a shelter for people who were

trying to escape the killing.

It wasn't safe because of the lions and animals.

So they were taking refuge in an area full of wild animals?

Yeah. Wow. Because that was better. Than the alternative?

Yeah.

Are those?

Impala. Impala?

They sort of look like posh goats.

Don't they?

I like them.

I don't know why I've got them with binoculars when they're this close.

It's a group of ornery males.

We call it a bachelor hide.

That's a bachelor group?

Bachelor group, yeah.

They fight to get females.

Then the winner will take the females, and then these losers, they just make

their own group.

Really? Which is a single male.

In the future, one of them will go to challenge.

Yeah, they are eating and go for gym. I mean, they do some training, fighting

training. So when they get ready, they'll go fight the one who is

females. And then kick him out, so the new male will take over the females.

So this is a group of losers?

Yes, yes, you're right, you're right.

Isaac informed us that animal numbers have been steadily increasing since the

historic low after the genocide.

Rhinos were reintroduced in 2019, meaning the park once again boasts all

five safari animals.

And the country is hoping that it can begin to compete for tourists with its

more established neighbours, Uganda and Tanzania.

We eventually arrived at our accommodation for the night.

Luxury tents with stunning views of the savannah.

I'm fundamentally opposed to camping, but, I mean, it's nice. I mean,

you know, in principle, I hate this sort of thing.

Like, really hate it. But there's no denying that they've, you know, they've

gone to a lot of trouble. It's a nice set -up in the circumstances.

But I do hate this.

But they've set it up nice. But I do hate it.

But it's nice.

But I hate it.

But they have done, it's nice.

The toilets were, for unknown reasons, open air.

So I settled down for a poo with a view.

You might want to leave that for about an hour, I'd say. Hour and a half. How

are you?

Not bad.

Enjoying the fire.

Yeah.

Do you want to go on a night fun adventure?

Do you want to go on a night fun adventure?

Yeah. That sounds really sinister.

Yeah, what's a night fun adventure?

Go on a night safari.

A night safari? Yeah. Do you think that'll make it easier to see the

more difficult?

It's an exploration. We're going to see what happens.

Well, that's my point. I don't think we are going to see what happens. It's

going to be dark.

Let me understand what I'm saying.

Night Safari.

Yes.

When we are using this spotlight, we'll be looking for the reflection of the

eyes. I want to see a lion, just from a distance.

Yeah.

What did you do if one just started running alongside him? Oh, he scared me.

So, Isaac, are you more likely to see animals in the nighttime safari?

Yes, the herbivores animals, they get together and then spend the night in the

open savannah grassland.

I'm getting a bit excited now.

Oh, I see something there.

Something there?

Right in the front? Right in the front. Oh, it's a sign.

I saw the eyes.

I've realised I'm useless at spotting.

Look at those eyes. Those are eyes.

Where?

I'm very sure. Buffalo.

Buffaloes. My God.

Lots of them. They were eyes.

Yes.

It's a big herd of buffaloes.

Wow.

Yeah, now I will trust my eye.

What is that?

Keep your eye there.

Is that a lion? Lion. Lion? Lion?

Lions. It's over here to the right. There's so many. There, there.

That's lions.

Let me get close to them and then we can watch them. We just need to reduce the

voices.

Oh, my.

Look at that. Oh, God.

That is amazing.

Oh, my God.

That's your first lion.

Yeah, it's so cool. Look at that.

Oh, God. Young male, eight months old.

They are still young.

Look at that one. They are praying.

Yeah. The young lion is praying.

And they can come and attack the vehicle at any second, right?

Can you tell if they're hungry?

Actually, they're stretching, getting ready to go and hunt.

It's evening time.

Yeah. So will these two just be together or are they part of a bigger... This

pride has 14 lines in total.

So they're part of that pride. These are the young ones. We are not seeing the

big ones. They're the adult ones.

Listen, I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong.

I thought the idea of doing a nighttime safari was ridiculous because just based

on my lifetime experiences, things are more difficult to see in the dark.

Let's start heading back to the camp.

Thank you, Isaac.

Thank you. Thank you for joining our night safari.

And so I thought the idea of going out at night to try and see more seemed

ridiculous. But do you know what?

Credit to Isaac, our guide. It was an incredible night.

Ippo saw his first ever lion tonight.

He's lost his lion cherry.

And what was it like when you first saw the lion?

I think you went, lion, lion.

I didn't do that.

I didn't do that. You may have... I think Ipe went, lion, lion. I went,

That's a fucking lion.

We drove back towards the capital.

I was acutely aware that so far, everything I'd seen in Rwanda had been

influenced in some way by the genocide, a shadow cast over the entire country.

That morning, Ipo wanted to take me to a museum in Kigali dedicated to the

memory of the wave of killing that began here in the spring of 1994.

Although shocking and sudden to outsiders, The roots of the genocide

embedded in the history of the country.

Traditionally, Tutsis, the owners of cattle, were the rulers of the country.

The Hutus worked the land, growing crops.

During the Belgian colonial era, these social distinctions were deliberately

exploited and entrenched.

causing deep divisions.

In the second half of the 20th century, after independence, persecution of the

Tutsi minority left the country in a permanent state of turmoil.

Waves of killings led to a failed invasion by Tutsi exiles in 1990, before

extremist movement known as Hutu Power became fixated on ending the dispute

and for all.

On the 6th of April 1994, the moderate Hutu president was assassinated.

And Hutu extremists immediately unleashed a meticulously planned final

The total elimination of all Tutsis.

The killing lasted for 100 days.

Roadblocks were set up along main roads.

Anybody carrying a Tutsi ID card was killed, usually with a machete.

Friends turned on friends.

Neighbours turned on neighbours.

Priests turned on their congregations.

As national radio urged people to weed out the cockroaches, nobody was spared.

As many as 10 ,000 people were massacred every day.

250 ,000 women were raped.

69 % of children witnessed death or harm.

Anybody opposed to the murder was killed.

70 % of all Tutsis were wiped out in one of the darkest episodes in human

history, before current president Paul Kagame and the RPF invaded from Uganda,

seized power, and the killing finally abated.

Well, it's just incredibly difficult coming somewhere like here.

It sort of forces you to actually engage with it.

in a way that he otherwise wouldn't have done.

There's the children's room and they had pictures of the children and children

that had died during the genocide and how they died. And there's stories of

babies being hacked to death by a machete. There's children being smashed

against the wall. There's babies being butchered in their parents' arms.

And people reveling in it. They thought these people were animals and they felt

empowered to do it.

There's stories of them baptising each other with blood and stuff. It's just

absolutely horrific.

Everybody in this country has experienced some sort of trauma.

The idea of putting that behind you or drawing laundry, going through that, it

just seems impossible. I don't understand how you would ever do that.

What did it actually feel like for the country to turn into that, where people

were just being killed for ethnicity wholesale?

What was it like to be in amongst that?

I was young, but every minute or every second

is like, I'm going to die, I'm going to be killed.

Every time you step on your right, you find...

You know, your relative being killed.

And then you turn and the other one, the only place you can hide in is a mass

grave. That's all I did.

You know, I was among the children who were made

slaves for the killers. And you know that in the next room or in the next

it's where your relatives or respected women you knew are being enslaved.

How do you feel?

It feels like... Yeah, it's misery.

Yeah, it shows me.

No, no, no, you're all right, man. See, you're constantly hoping that you die

and you leave the misery behind because thinking the next second, it's me, it's

me, it's me.

And how long did it feel like that?

I and my brother and my two sisters were in a refugee camp, so we were

rescued. And when we were taken back into the village where our house was

down, we didn't have where to go. The suffering, the pain, the trauma is still

there, and all the things we're talking about that I experienced.

I feel even today my nightmare.

Why do you feel so compelled to come here?

We never had a chance to bury our relatives.

When I come here, I feel like I'm visiting people like my parents that I

my father, aunt, relative.

Also, it's a place of learning. I come here and give me strength to wake up

tomorrow and say, I don't want what happened to happen again.

Sorry. No, you're all right, man.

OK.

I did not always understand how my father could say that becoming a killer

doing revenge would be a fight, not peace.

Until I forgave his killers.

Killers of my cousins, killers of my relatives, of my people, killers of

neighbors, killers of their friends, killers of their brothers and sisters,

killers of their home, our beloved country, Luanda.

But I understand one thing for sure.

You and I are the key.

The key of remembering that all together we can find a way.

A way to peace.

A way to love.

A way to forgive.

A way to confess.

A way to kindness.

Always remember, you are the key.

Ipoh told me that after the genocide, the government banned the terms Hutu and

Tutsi, with all citizens now simply Rwandan.

The country has also tried to foster a sense of national unity through sports.

One of the great successes has been cycling.

And he took me along to spend the day cycling through the stunning hills

alongside his friend Sandru and the Rwandan women's national team.

Hello, I'm Romesh.

Nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you.

So here at this club, you're going to try and run right through over here.

Yeah, very slowly, please.

I'm bad.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't mean in a general sense. Yeah, and it's on the flat. Don't worry. Okay,

great. Thanks.

You ready for this?

Really?

I thought the activity was cycling, but it turned out the activity is cycling

and setting fire to your dignity.

I thought, look, Ippo, he looks like he's got some cycling haunches. I've

look at that.

I've got no arse whatsoever. I actually think this is a condition.

Oh, man.

If I don't get an arse after this, I'm going to be devastated.

oh my hey

So what does the development of this sport mean for the country and

opportunities?

Here it's very important for the community.

Many riders, they can help their families to keep surviving.

Also keep the unity between people.

And in different sports, even football, even basketball.

So we are a good example for other women. Now they're interested to come in

cycling. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. So you feel like it's something that's been encouraged by the country?

Yeah.

How are you getting on, Ipa?

Yes. I love hills.

You love hills? Yeah, me too.

Okay, so another one ahead.

Great, great. Oh, what?

Yeah, I know.

guys you're obviously going at my kind of pace so why don't we see how far you

can go and i'm going to try and keep up with you okay yeah okay so when i say

three two one

Okay, let's stop.

It went so fast.

As soon as we set them off, it was like some nitro went off or something after

burners. It was ridiculous. I honestly thought we could keep up with them for

like 10 seconds maybe. Me too.

I thought maybe for 10 seconds and let them go.

It turns out that was incredibly optimistic.

That was a humiliation.

But fair play to them.

You know.

I'd like them to come and do 20 minutes at the Apollo, you know?

See how they get on doing that.

One more thing that is amazing is that, like, Rwandan women parliamentarians are

helping, supporting this team.

Did you know that Rwanda has the highest proportion of women in parliament

anywhere in the world?

In the whole world? Yes.

No, I did not know that. We have the highest number. It's an amazing thing, I

think, to see in the sort of mix of trying to heal the country and trying to

the country past those horrible events, past the genocide.

It's bringing community together. People are coming out to watch it.

People are coming together to compete against each other.

All of those things, I mean, you can totally see how positive that all is.

Yeah, and seeing women riding like this.

I've never seen it before.

Rwanda's got the African national champion.

Yeah. Pretty amazing. Yeah.

And I think it's just good, you know, I'm willing to sort of sacrifice my

dignity to show how good everyone is, you know, so I've contributed in my own

small way.

My legs.

I know.

I'd found Rwanda a fascinating, deeply impressive and at times awe -inspiring

place, but not everyone is so enamoured with the country.

And if you're thinking of visiting, there are definitely some things you

be aware of.

OK, stop, stop, stop, stop. Keep turning, keep turning.

Do you know what you're going to say? Yeah. OK.

Turning? OK.

And action.

By all accounts, Paul Kagame, the president of the country, is responsible

taking Rwanda from the chaos of post -genocide to being sort of

heralded as almost like a...

A poster country for how things should be done. Its growth is incredible.

It's got the highest representation of women in Parliament in the world.

They've got an incredibly united community, which is made all the more

impressive by the fact that this country has been so divided.

Having said all of that, there are people who are extremely critical of

which is why I find myself on this boat.

EPO's not with me.

We've only got members of the crew here with me.

We're not even recording this on radio, Mike.

These are all measures we've had to take in order to avoid what we feel might be

us getting ourselves into trouble by speaking freely where we can be heard.

And that is something I've never had to do before.

And to be honest, it's quite unnerving.

There are reports of human rights abuses.

There are reports that the government have targeted opposition.

with violence to kind of quash any kind of dissent at all and gone as far as to

chase people to foreign countries in order to to deal with that and on top of

that Rwanda is said to have one of the most extensive and arguably invasive

surveillance operations in the world and there's probably some sort of scuba

diver with a microphone underneath the water or they've attached it to a fish

something I don't know how they'd operate it but ultimately does what I've

said

affect your judgment of the country so much that you couldn't in good

come here?

Or do you think to yourself, well, I could come here and it won't affect me

all. I could understand either argument, to be honest with you.

You know, that is something to consider, but I think it would be remiss not to

talk about those things if you're coming to a place like this. That dove on the

face of it presented such an incredible country.

Cautious as I had been, I did want to hear Ipo's views on the subject without

wishing to put him in an uncomfortable position.

So the following day in the car, I tiptoed my way around the issue.

I think it's been amazing.

Like, what I've seen so far has been incredible.

But I wanted to ask you, in the West, there are some people, not naming any

names, that have raised questions about, sort of, the authoritarianism in this

country.

I was bloody nervous about bringing these things up with you because I just

thought, how will you... Obviously, we've got on.

We've had a great old time. But now you're having a heavy conversation about

country.

That's the thing. Where did you get that warning from?

I don't know. I think I'm happy to have a conversation with that. OK.

Paul Kagama's been in charge for what? Is it 30 years now? How long? He was

elected in 2003.

Oh, OK. But he was in position since 1999, 2000.

OK. So, 2003.

And he's hugely popular, yeah?

Oh, so popular.

So popular.

He brought back safety in the country. Yeah. You have a country where...

Violence has replaced violence and trauma after trauma.

You know, Guandans are at the point of saying, we want safety.

Of course, there's no system that is 100 % perfect, but I think at least the

majority of laws here have helped us to be where we are, and I think it's a good

thing. I actually don't agree with the description of authoritarianism as being

what... What is happening here in Rwanda?

That's the system of rule. So you just refute that completely, that's not the

case? Yeah.

You know, people are free to drive like pricks here, so... So... Oh,

God.

People make mistakes.

No, no, I'm a joke.

Listen, I didn't say they were a prick. I said they're driving like a prick. Oh,

right. So, my time in Rwanda.

Rwanda? Rwanda.

Rwanda. Oh, God.

You're getting upset now?

Rwanda. You've been here for how many... Rwanda.

Rwanda. You can't even... Rwanda.

Come again?

Rwanda. No.

Rwanda. Rwanda.

Yes. Rwanda.

Yes! Well done. Yes!

So, I've been here for a few days.

Everything I've seen is great.

Are you telling me it's as good as it seems? Is that what you're conclusively

telling me?

It's as good as it seems, and I wish it becomes better.

OK.

Ipa would save the best of this amazing country for last.

We'd be trekking into Volcanoes National Park.

62 square miles of rainforest spread along the slopes of eight volcanoes and

home to over a thousand mountain gorillas.

We'd be guided in by Fidel.

for avoiding the transmission of the disease.

Fidelis stopped and said, we're 15 minutes away from the gorillas, which is

incredibly exciting.

What language have you learned to speak to the gorillas?

So apparently they have to go...

and then he knows, he or she or they know that you're not a threat.

Equally, if a silverback goes to charge you, you shouldn't run away, because if

anything, that encourages him and excites him, and he will beat you to

It's a lot like when I used to go and visit my granddad.

He had a silverback.

Did he lose out?

No.

His back was covered with silver hair. What the fuck are you talking about?

He didn't have a pet silverback.

Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered coming here and climbing a mountain.

I would have gone round my grandad's house.

Anyway, it's very exciting.

Do you know anything else in Gorilla?

No.

Oh, shit.

I'm alright.

I just

can't believe

it, man.

You get yourself ready for it and you think, obviously this is what's going to

happen, but I can't believe we're this close.

It's incredible.

These gorillas, which share about 98 % of their DNA with humans, are one of 12

families that live here in the Virunga Mountains.

Each family consists of around ten gorillas, with one dominant male, the

silverback, and several females.

It is amazing.

It is unbelievable.

Both males and females care for the children, hugging and playing with them

until they're older, when most males and around two -thirds of females leave

their birth group to join another family.

What's your first experience like of seeing him?

I don't know, it just feels very peaceful. It's an amazing experience to

close to them.

Oh, my God.

I think she had too much food this morning.

Actually spread her legs to go.

It's remarkable.

First of all, I was surprised that I was hearing a gorilla fart.

And to be honest with you, I suspected one of you to initially.

But then Fidel made it clear it was the guerrilla fighter.

And I just can't believe none of the other guerrillas reacted. I'm going to

you this now.

If I was sat at home with my family and Lisa did something like that, we would

stand up and applaud.

OK.

It was at this point that the silverback...

perhaps roused by the rumble of immense flatulence, awakened suddenly and made

his way through the crew with scant regard for Fidel's safety briefing.

Too close, too close, too close, too close.

Excuse me.

That is the most gorilla -looking gorilla I've ever seen.

And you just saw the silverback for the first time.

It was unbelievable.

It's like there's power.

It's amazing, isn't it? It's so huge.

This doesn't feel like 10 metres.

Look, how's he walking? Look. Oh, yeah.

Look, how's he walking?

Look at that.

Uh -oh.

You are too close, please. You are too close.

Come to me.

Come to me.

It's like textbook gorilla.

It honestly looks like he's been through hair and makeup before this.

Do you cut the hair?

No.

You're the guide to the country, and you just asked if they come and cut his

hair. Well, look at that.

What were you expecting to say? Yeah, it's a little trim and then a bit of dry

shampoo. See who gets on with it.

That's the sort of question I'm supposed to ask.

I just wanted to say that this has genuinely been one of the most

experiences I've ever had. So I just wanted to say thank you for looking

us. It's been absolutely amazing.

Thank you.

Well, Ipe, that was genuinely such an incredible experience.

Thank you for coming in. It's been amazing.

Thanks, bro.

Keep well, yeah?

Yeah, you too.

I'd say keep in touch, but...

When I talked about what I was expecting or what I'd associated with this

country before arriving, it was the genocide.

I mean, talking to Ippo has been an unbelievable guide.

His story, what that man has been through and who he is today, is

nothing short of miraculous.

You know, I've talked about...

I guess, you know, concerns.

But if you were to put those to one side, every single day I've been here,

done something which I would describe as a really enriching and amazing

experience. I mean, I don't think that's an overstatement. You know, whether

that be a cultural thing, whether that be looking into the country's history

reflecting on it, whether that be seeing incredible nature and scenery, it's

sort of got all of that.

I mean, the truth of it is that...

you know if you were somebody that had never thought about visiting an african

country because of those kind of preconceptions or stereotypes if you

call them you know the fact of the matter is there are parts of african

countries that are chaotic there are parts that you know are dangerous to go

if you were unsure about this type of experience this is kind of like a good

way in it's a good entry level country to come and sort of explore africa it's

good

You know, I could imagine people saying, how did you get into Africa? Well, it

was Rwanda that got me started, and then I moved on to the other ones.

Having done the number of these shows that I have done, I'm still... It's

an experience that will stay with me for a long time. I think it's an amazing

country. I've had an amazing experience here, and I'll remember it for a very,

very long time. It's an amazing place.

So we've been to Uganda, we're now in Rwanda.

And the original plan was to go across the border to the Democratic Republic of

Congo. But we can't do that because a volcano has erupted and fighting has

broken out on the sides of that volcano. So it's where we go next instead. Now,

we can't go anywhere around here because it's too dangerous.

Already been here.

This is full of honeymooners. I actually went here on my honeymoon.

And we've already been here.

So we've decided, or I've decided rather, that we are going here.

Madagascar!

I don't know loads about it, but I've got my fingers crossed for Talking

Penguin.

And I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to be physically fit.

Physically fit.

Physically fit.

Physically, physically, physically fit.

Beautiful, eh?

This is incredible.

Older but not wiser, the young offenders Connor and Jock are back. Watch the new

series on iPlayer. Music and the macabre next on BBC Two.

Compose yourself for a terrifying tale inside Number 9.