Original subtitles

This programme contains some strong language.

Oh...

Over the last five years, I've been visiting countries

with a bad reputation to see if the preconceptions...

PRODUCER: - Rom, sorry to interrupt.

Can you just avoid saying, "Bad reputation"?

Because it implies that the countries are bad.

And from a position of white privilege,

it just doesn't look that great.

- Yeah, but they do have, like, a bad reputation.

I mean, that's the point. - Can you avoid it?

- Also, I'm not white. - I know.

And we support that decision.

- I mean, it's not a decision, but OK.

Over the last five years, I've been visiting countries

which some people associate with somewhat negative preconceptions...

- Good. - ELEPHANT TRUMPETS

..to see if that reputation is justified...

It's good shit.

..or if we should be giving them a second chance.

Oh, sorry!

This time, I'm going above and beyond,

travelling through the heart of Africa, on a month-long journey...

- Rom, can you not say, "Heart of Africa"?

It sounds like The Heart Of Darkness.

- OK, but that was in Africa.

- Yes, but it might trigger some people.

- OK, how about, uh, former British colonies?

- That will trigger other people. - OK.

Travelling through Africa on one long, epic journey.

Is Uganda all about Idi Amin?

Wow! This is genuinely amazing.

Is Rwanda more than the horrors of the genocide?

WHISPERS: Oh, my God. I can't believe this.

Is Madagascar full of animated talking lions and singing lemurs?

- Can we just say all species of lemurs, just in case

we offend any lemurs?

- The Misadventures Of Romesh Ranganathan.

I began my odyssey in Kampala, capital of Uganda, a landlocked

country of some 45 million people,

once described by Winston Churchill as the pearl of Africa.

Before coming here, I sort of felt like I'd got sort of acclimatised

to sort of African cities and how busy and hectic they are,

but this is a level above. I mean, it's proper mad.

- Can you sort of explain what the...how the traffic works?

- Basically, the system is, whoever's got the sharpest elbows

gets in first.

It could do, if I'm being honest with you - I'm not a city planner -

a couple of roundabouts, maybe. - And what's going on there?

- Well, there's been a collision between a motorbike and a bicycle

containing some sort of unspecified vegetable,

and now they're having an argument about it.

I'll be honest with you,

I feel like filming it is only going to aggravate the situation

but, listen, it's your choice.

- So, what are your preconceptions of Uganda?

- When I think of Uganda, I think of Idi Amin because we were so

invested in that story,

it's such a big thing, he was such a big character, what he did,

and then, you know, you know very little about the country since then.

And so, that is kind of...that is kind of what you

come into this thinking about, and maybe the ongoing legacy of that.

And then, the other thing is, between us deciding to come here

and us actually arriving,

Uganda has just passed a load of essentially anti-gay

laws and legislation.

So, you know, that's something that I'm hoping to kind of, uh...

..chew on during my time here.

My co-host Alex has told me that I'm going to meet her

somewhere here, because I think she thinks that one of my things

I'd like to do here is have a panic attack.

HORN HONKS

I'm sort of this far away from just going down there

and screaming, "Alex," at the top of my lungs and seeing if she responds.

Alex!

Alex!

Oh, no. It's a different Alex. - What's going on?

- I don't know. I'm looking for Alex.

You've not seen her, have you? - Hmm?

- Alex? - Alex? - Yeah.

- I don't know, Alex. - OK. All right, no worries, man. Thank you.

I eventually located Alex, a 32-year-old born and raised

in Kampala, in the middle of a bus station.

I mean, she wasn't raised in a bus station.

That's just where I caught up with her.

- Romesh! - Alex! - Hi.

How are you doing? - Fine, thank you. - Oh, OK, let's do it.

Let's do that. - I didn't know whether to do that or not.

- Oh. - How are you? - It's a Ugandan thing.

- You meet people, and you give them a hug. - Oh, OK.

Welcome. Welcome to Uganda. - Thank you.

I've only been here a short time. - Yes.

- It's been quite, uh...

SHE LAUGHS

I feel quite anxious. - Why?

- Well, because I reckon... - Yeah? - ..I've had a near-death experience

27 times since I've arrived, so...

But in a good way. Like, everyone's friendly as they do it. - Yeah?

Everybody knows you're there. Don't worry. - Do they?

- They won't knock you. That's for sure. - OK.

Because they don't make any eye contact.

They don't look like they know I'm there.

- No, subconsciously, I think they know you're there. - OK.

You promise? - So, you don't have to... I promise.

- Because that's... My life is now in your hands.

I'm just going to walk around not looking, and assume that... - No!

Please do. - Oh, do look? OK, fine. - Yes, please do look...

- ..because you never know what happens, right?

- So, the only thing I know about... Or the only...

As soon as you say Uganda to me, I think Idi Amin, right? - Of course.

- I... Basically, I'm an open book.

- Yeah. - I'm ready to find out all about it. - Yeah.

- So, what's the best way? What are we going to...

How are we going to start it? - To get here, I took a bike

because driving here, I'd be late.

- So bikes are quickest? - Bike's the quickest. - OK.

- Not the most safe, but it's the quickest.

- So, it's quick but dangerous?

That was my nickname at school.

Alex told me we would spend a week venturing around Uganda,

experiencing its staggering array of epic landscapes,

incredible wildlife, learning about its troubled past

and addressing its modern complexity.

But we would start with a terrifying trip across town on a boda boda -

a sort of death-defying cross between a taxi ride

and human pinball.

Uganda's capital has ballooned from just 167,000 people,

when it became independent in 1962, to 1.6 million people today,

most of them apparently intent on injuring me.

I was eventually allowed off the bike to take a stroll

up the ancient Mengo Hill, once home to the royal family.

- So, this region was ruled by the Buganda.

Buganda. - "Booganda"? - "Bu".

Buganda Kingdom is where the Buganda people...

- Buganda people from the Buganda Kingdom? - Yes, sir.

- OK. - And so, that's where Uganda got its name.

It was a mispronunciation.

- Mispronunciation? - The British pronounce...mispronounced it.

I mean, originally... - Yeah. Yeah, you guys did. Yeah.

- Us guys? - Yes. - Listen, I'm originally Sri Lankan.

So, the British mispronounced it.

- But listen, I'm as angry about it as you are.

So... So...

BOTH LAUGH So... - It was a mispronunciation.

- So, hold on. So, somebody said, "This is Buganda."

- Someone said, "This is Buganda." - And then, he went, "You mean, Uganda?"

- Uganda, yes. - And then it got stuck? - Because in Swahili,

they don't have a "Bu". - Yeah.

- A B. I'm actually a princess of Buganda.

So, when I say my name, people know.

- You're a princess? - Yes, I am.

So, the king, I call him uncle.

- Are you joking? - No, I'm not.

- You're a princess? - I'm showing you our lovely home.

- Does that mean... Does your lifestyle have to be more

traditional than it otherwise would have been? - Yes. They expect it.

Really? Luckily, they don't pick our partners any more.

- So, they used to pick your partners? - Yes.

- Do you get to tell people what to do and stuff?

Like, will you always get whatever table you want at a restaurant?

- No, no, no, no, no. - No?

- So, I would say that the... Because my father is not the king, right?

I am royalty, but his children would get the special treatment...

- OK. - ..live in the palace, and things like that.

- Do you get anything, like a discount or anything like that?

SHE LAUGHS

At all? - No.

There's quite a number of princesses.

And... - OK. How many are we talking?

- Many. More than I can count. - Like... More than you can count?

- More than I can count because... - How high can you count?

Because that sort of determines how big a number that is.

- How many people in Uganda? - If you can only count to nine, then...

- I guess, how many people are in Buganda? It's a lot of people.

- OK. - And so, then... - Like, are we talking, like, 1,000?

- More than. - More than 1,000?

There's more than 1,000 princesses? ALEX LAUGHS

Alex explained that although the royal family's role is now

largely ceremonial, the Bugandan kings have ruled here since

the early 14th century.

- This is the Mengo Palace.

Those lions at the top,

just like the lion is the king of the jungle,

the king is the most feared and the most revered. - Yeah.

After independence, Buganda retained semi-autonomous status,

but all that changed in 1966, when the president sent the Ugandan

army, led by young Idi Amin, to storm the hill.

- So, the troops ran up this hill. - Yeah.

- And they went into the palace after the king.

- To get rid of the king? - To get rid of the king. - OK.

- And so, the troops ran into the palace, and the king manages

to escape and jump over the wall, and get a taxi and went to London.

Um... - He got a taxi?

- He did do, yes, and went to London. - So, he jumped over the wall...

So, the troops are coming up the hill. - Mm-hm.

- He's in deep trouble. - Yes.

- "I've got to get out of here." - Yeah.

- He jumps over the back wall, then... HE WHISTLES

- Taxi. - London. - And then he goes to London.

- And then, the driver goes, "That's going to cost loads." - I think so.

- And I bet you he had to pay double time.

ALEX LAUGHS

- Yes, he must have!

- And then, what happened to him in London?

- Um, he stayed there three years and, unfortunately, died in exile.

Mm. - OK.

A damning indictment of London, that. - Right.

But the kingdom is still here.

- Yes. It looks beautiful.

- Yes, it does. - The Mengo Palace. - Yeah.

- The next day, we drove out of Kampala, heading out

to the River Nile for what was promised to be a day of action

and adventure on the water.

Are you, like... Are you, um, a proud Ugandan?

- I love it. I'll tell you why.

There's never a dull moment.

- Yeah. - I can guarantee.

Ugandans...

- Well, I saw that, just from that roundabout.

- ..everything is turned into something laughable.

- Just general positive vibes? - Yeah.

- So, what exactly do you do?

- I'm a programme manager for a consultancy company.

Education projects, mainly.

- So, is that quite, um, a prestigious job then?

- It's a regular job, I think.

Jobs that people deem prestigious are, like,

if you're a doctor - it's a big deal here. - Yeah.

My mum.... When I first told my mum I wasn't going to become a doctor...

..we had to have a sit-down chat. - Oh!

And you explained why didn't you want to be a doctor though?

- Well, I had to... First of all, I didn't want to.

Second of all, I wasn't clever enough.

So I had to say to her, "You know, I could become a doctor." - Yeah.

- "But it'd be one of those incompetent ones that's constantly getting sued for,

"like, malpractice or whatever.

"Is that what you want?"

ALEX LAUGHS

We eventually arrived at Jinja, a few hours outside Kampala.

A once-tiny town, which has thrived off the back of the spectacular

whitewater rafting opportunities on offer along the Nile.

How are you feeling about this? ALEX LAUGHS

- Scared. - Yep. "Scared," did you say? - Yeah.

OK. The one sort of consolation is we both look cool.

Hello. - Hello.

- Are you good? - I'm good.

- Alex decided to take us whitewater rafting

because, it turns out, completely unbeknownst to me,

that Uganda apparently has some of the best whitewater rafting

in the world.

Big J is the leader.

- So, when you get in this boat here, you're going to sit like this.

And I myself am going to be at the back,

giving all the instructions, telling you what to do.

Yes. - Have you ever been injured?

- Myself? - Yeah.

- Yeah. Look at my teeth.

- That was from doing this? - Yeah.

Because most people, they get injured because of these.

- OK. - If you make them swung around, you're going to hurt somebody.

- OK. - Hold on to your paddle. - No, you hold on to YOUR paddle.

- OK, let's jump in!

- You're joking!

- ALEX YELPS

- Ah-ha-ha! This is the part I cannot do.

Ah! - Alex, come on, come in.

- Aaaaaah!

- Alex's big problem was that she didn't trust the life jacket.

I believe she thought she was just wearing a jacket.

LAUGHS

- You'll be fine. You'll be safe. - Can I hold you?

- Come over. Just slide.

Slide, like that. Yeah.

Perfect. Let go of the boat.

- You fall in the water,

you're underwater for five seconds, then you come up.

And then, they pull you on like a massive fish.

You, essentially, in order to survive, have to act dead.

That's the irony of it.

- OK. Everybody, back on your seat.

Get on your position.

- And when you have that kind of fear, you know, she can go...

If she's then going to overcome that fear and do it,

it's an amazing thing. You can put some Adele on underneath

or whatever and it's going to be, like, a really cool moment.

- This one is deep enough.

No rock. - No rocks, OK.

- There's no way you're going to hit a rock, in case you fell

out of the boat. - It hadn't even occurred to me

that there'd be rocks until he said there wouldn't be. OK.

- Don't say it, man.

- There's six grades, or levels, if you like, of rapids

that you can go through.

So, level one is, like, very low grade, like somebody farting

in a bathtub.

ALEX SCREAMS

- Oh, no! I'm...

- Stop! Get down!

Easy.

- ROMESH LAUGHS

Level two is...

..two people farting in a bathtub.

- Get down!

- ALEX SCREAMS

Three is...

..I guess, like a large animal farting in a bathtub.

Anyway, the point is that they get stronger.

- Oh!

- Ugh!

ROMESH YELPS

Alex found the whole thing really nerve-racking.

But despite all of that, fair play to her,

she did two of the rapids,

and she just, you know, she ducked out, like,

for the second half of it. I-I totally understand.

I can't believe she did the first two rapids.

Turns out she'd made the best decision of her life

because the next one, a grade four, was insane.

I felt like praying to God to send my best wishes

to my wife and children.

- OK, forward! Paddle!

- ROMESH LAUGHS NERVOUSLY

- Harder, harder! - I don't know what's happening!

- Get down!

- Ah!

- Get up and paddle!

- Get up and paddle?!

No fucking... Fucking hell!

He's saying paddle, there's no water there.

The wave's here.

What do you want me to do, paddle in front of my face?

And then, like, he's just screaming, "Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

- Paddle, paddle, paddle!

- "Faster, faster! Harder! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

Fucking hell!

- Yeah, we got it!

- How is this a category four?!

It can't be.

It feels like a fucking anxiety dream.

I actually thought I was going to die.

- Well done! - What's happening?!

What's happening?!

There is a six.

You never do a six, basically.

- If you look down there, you'll see the water splashing.

No-one goes down this rapid.

- You never, ever... You never, ever do a six.

Unless, in the words of Big J, you want to die.

So I'll come back next year.

Yeah, I think we both...

We've both learnt a little something.

I've learnt that Uganda's got great white-water rafting,

you can have a great time,

and Alex has learnt to sort of think about organising

water-based activities if you can't swim.

The next day, like explorers of old,

we journeyed upstream to find the source of this epic river.

So, this is the way to the source of the Nile?

- Yeah. - Because it looks like the way to Mahatma Gandhi's statue

maintained by Bank of Baroda.

ALEX LAUGHS

I'm just saying.

For a period in the mid-19th century,

the hunt for the origin of the world's longest river

became a Victorian obsession,

making household names of explorers,

who eventually pinpointed a spot here on the edge of Lake Victoria

as the beginning of the longest, most majestic

and most romantic river on Earth.

Is this the source, right here?

- Yeah.

- Mind your head. - Oh, yeah. Thank you. - Yeah.

Well, this is exciting.

Let's see if that's... Oh, wow.

- So, this is it. - This is it.

- It doesn't look like the start of anything, does it?

You know what I mean? - Yeah. - It looks like we're in the middle.

I mean, if you moved it 100 yards that way...

- You wouldn't know the difference. - ..nobody would notice.

You know what I thought, honestly?

When you hear about the source of a river... - Mm-hm.

- ..it's like the top of a mountain or something.

We'd be, like, we'd be by a melting glacier.

"The Nile starts here."

It feels quite corporate, doesn't it?

How do you feel about the beer sponsorship?

- I mean...

They took advantage of the name.

- I think the river came first, didn't it?

ALEX LAUGHS

I've just got to say... - Yeah.

- ..what a magical experience... - Yeah!

- ..to come to the source of the Nile,

brought to you by Nile Special in association with Coca-Cola.

SHE LAUGHS

Right. Shall we go and get gifts? I'm going to...

I'm going to buy a bead necklace or something. - Yeah.

The earrings are quite cute. - Yeah.

I'll have to get my ears pierced.

Do you reckon he does that, as well?

- Oh, this is Uganda.

Anything is possible.

- We doubled back on ourselves,

heading west across a country

that's the size of the UK,

but somehow felt at least ten times bigger.

The plan was to explore some of Uganda's natural beauty,

taking in crater lakes formed by ancient volcanoes

and its abundance of awe-inspiring wildlife.

The mission that would involve - unfortunately for Alex - more water.

Alex explained that although it's long since lived in the shadow

of its more popular neighbour, Kenya,

tourists are beginning to come back,

drawn in by the world-class wildlife-spotting on offer.

After an epic eight-hour drive,

we entered Queen Elizabeth National Park,

named after Queen Elizabeth.

Oh, wow. Look at this.

- It's lovely, yeah. - It's pretty cool. Well done.

- You keep saying well done like a Ugandan.

- Do Ugandans say well done? - Oh, extremely. - Well done.

Well, I haven't done anything.

- Maybe I've just got more Ugandan in me than I thought.

ALEX LAUGHS

Oh, my... Wow!

The idea was to hike Kyambura Gorge.

Created millions of years ago by volcanic activity,

it's an amazing spectacle of biodiversity,

crammed into a 12-mile section, 100m deep

and home to a supposed plethora of monkeys.

- So, the gorge is teeming with life, right?

There's lots of monkeys, different kinds of birds.

Uganda is known for their kinds of birds.

- It looks unbelievable.

- And, yeah, I look forward to seeing it.

I think the ranger's going to tell us more about it.

- OK. - Yeah. - I'm very excited.

- Hello, Ruth. - Hello.

Nice meeting you. - Thank you.

Alex. - Ruth is my name.

- Hello, Romesh. - Nice meeting you, Romesh. - Nice to meet you.

We're about to hike through the gorge,

hopefully taking in the various types of wildlife

that the gorge has to offer.

We're going to gorge ourselves on flora and fauna.

I wish I hadn't said that.

But anyway, that's what we're doing.

We're hiking through the gorge.

- Romesh, are you OK there?

- I'm fine. I don't like downhill, really,

as a rule, but I'm fine.

ALEX LAUGHS

Erm, Ruth, what do you have the gun for?

- The other part of my job.

I must have a gun in case of the visitors,

in case of any charge of an animal,

maybe an elephant, maybe a hippo. - Mm-hm.

- So, how many chimpanzees are there here?

- So, Kyambura Gorge is a home to 32 chimpanzees.

The chances of finding them are 50% to 60%.

- What do you see, Rom?

- I thought they saw something, but it was, erm...

It was a tree.

- More facts about chimpanzees.

Chimpanzees eat meat.

- Do they? - They do. And they do hunt other monkeys.

- What?!

- Yes.

- I cannot believe that.

- Hunting comes in at a certain period of the year.

- OK. - And it is a planned arrangement that today

we are going to have meat.

So, killing the monkey,

they use these big trees.

They will grab the monkey and hit his head on the branch. - Mm.

- So, they are smart in a way that they do not want that monkey

to die a painful death. - Mm.

- They will hit his head, he will lose his senses

and then they will tear up.

- How is that not a painful death?

- Can you see anything, Rom?

- Yes, there's more trees.

BIRDS CHATTER

CHIMPANZEES HOOT

- Chimpanzees.

So, I prefer we walk back the same way we came,

because the chimpanzees are inviting us.

- They're inviting us? - They are letting us know

that we are going in the wrong direction.

- ALEX CHUCKLES

OK.

WHISPERS: Apparently, the chimpanzees,

Ruth said they were communicating to let us know we're going

the wrong way.

Fucking hell!

It's like a swamp now.

ROMESH GROANS

CHIMPANZEES HOOT

What is it?

- Can you hear that? The chimps?

- The chimps? - Yeah.

- WHISPERING: Ruth thinks that she's...

..figured out roughly where the chimpanzees are,

but, um,

they're very clever.

So it's not beyond the realms of possibility

that they just thought,

"Should we lead these three twats on a merry chimp chase?"

- Where are you heading on to now?

- Um, I guess it'll be through some more trees

and then on to the Crater Lake, which

has an incredible amount of pressure on it,

I would say.

If I turn up at the Crater Lake...

..and Kendrick Lamar is not doing a gig...

..I'll be absolutely furious.

Or what would be an amazing end to this

is we get to the Crater Lake,

and all the animals from here are waiting there.

And they just go, "Surprise!"

Eventually, we emerge from the gorge

and hobble towards the twin lakes of Kyema and Kamweru.

Oh, my God!

Wow!

They were formed by a volcanic eruption

at some point between 400 and 12,000 years ago,

depending on who you believe.

- This is the escarpment, the western wall of the Rift Valley.

- This is incredible.

- Is it worth it now?

- Yeah, this is actually. - OK.

- It's absolutely amazing.

Ruth, thank you so much for looking after us today.

- It has been a pleasure.

- It's, er, genuinely stunning.

We headed further north,

careering across the equator

and heading deeper into rural Uganda.

Alex explained that the country is still highly religious.

81% of the Christian population attend church every week,

and society is built on a bedrock of

highly traditional, conservative faith.

Where do you sit in the scale of, um...

..your generation of people?

Are you quite, more traditional than the

average person of your age or less?

Or about the same, would you say?

- I think I'm a bit more traditional.

- Right. - Um...

But again, people from the royal family were expected to behave

in such a way you... To protect...

..protect its norms,

protect its values. - Yeah. - A lot.

I'm old school. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So do you look at, like, society in the UK and feel like

it's lost its way a little bit then?

Is that kind of...?

- Yeah. - Yeah. - I think so.

- In terms... In terms of what?

Because I think, you know,

a lot of people in the UK would agree with you,

but, I mean, what's your kind of take on it?

- So, OK, from what we see on, um, social media and

we see that there's a lot more acceptance

for people acting on how they feel.

- Right. - Which for us,

your feelings are valid,

but they're not the most important thing.

- OK. - Right? So society has rules, so to say,

and we abide by them.

- OK.

- Um... - So what you mean by that is...

- Men are men. - Men are men and women are women.

- Women are women.

You don't over complicate it.

It's basics. Just the basics.

- If you...

If you...

Would you ever be in a relationship where the man

was the one that stayed home and looked after the children,

and you were the one that went out and worked? - No.

- No.

- I think that he would not be happy... - OK.

- ..with me being the one that's bringing the money home.

I don't think he would. And I would not be happy.

- I mean, speaking personally, I'd be delighted.

- You would? - I think so.

- Well, why are you not doing it now?

- Because...

erm, my wife is terrible at comedy.

That evening at the hotel, we had a drink at the bar.

As amazing as Uganda had been so far,

I was aware that there was an elephant in the room -

Uganda's new, so-called anti-gay laws.

The legislation, which passed a few weeks before I arrived,

outlaws homosexuality and punishes anybody promoting it

with a prison sentence of up to 20 years,

or potentially even the death penalty.

The laws have been described as some of the harshest of their kind

anywhere on the planet,

but I wanted to find out what the Ugandan perspective was.

So, between us... - Mm.

- ..deciding to come to Uganda... - Yeah.

- ..and make this show... - OK.

- ..and us arriving in Uganda to make this show,

a new set of laws and legislation were put in place.

So I guess my first question would be

what's your... I mean, how popular is that?

- I think it represents what we believe as a people.

- OK. - Um, that...

..women marry men.

That's it.

- There's no in between.

- Um... - It comes from a religious thing?

- And culturally. - And a cultural thing, OK. - Yes, it's just how...

And actually, people were happy when the president signed the bill.

I was for it.

- Yeah, for full clarity... - Yes.

- ..I'm coming from a country

that has a completely different attitude to that

and also my own personal views are different.

I'm giving you an idea of what my bias is in this,

but I'm trying to be like, you know...

- What is your bias, if I may ask?

- My belief is that it's no more a choice to be homosexual

than it is to be a choice to be heterosexual.

- OK. - So you're saying, in my opinion,

I want to make it illegal for you to be who you are.

It's the same thing as saying to me,

we're going to make it illegal to be brown.

Do you know what I mean? - Yes.

- That's kind of... That's kind of how... That's kind of how I see it.

How do you feel about the idea that

they have no choice about who they are, you know?

- I think you do.

- You think so? - Yes, please.

- So you think, in your opinion, every gay person has chosen to be gay.

- If... I mean, how else are they gay?

- Well, I didn't choose to be heterosexual.

I am heterosexual by nature. - Yeah.

- I don't believe it's any different for homosexual people. - Mm.

I think then we beg to differ.

Sex is not something that you tell children,

like, it's not something that it's open and...

We don't do that.

We've had incidents where books were taken to schools.

- Right. - Um, in the library.

And that caused an outrage.

And so the Ministry of Education said, "We won't be having this

"in the schools."

So that's what happened.

The first thing was to protect children. - OK.

- Yeah. - Protect children from what, though?

- From that kind of content.

- Let's assume that homosexuality is a choice.

What's wrong with letting people make that choice?

- Do we allow people to make all choices?

They just... They just...make the choice as they feel.

- Well, I mean, within limit.

- Exactly.

This is a limit.

We have guardrails in everything.

I think it's OK.

No offence, but I feel like in the West, your guardrails...

are...

are very, very wide... - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- In the UK, they are told it's normal.

- Yeah. - Right? In Uganda, they will be told it's not normal.

- OK. - That's what... That's the difference.

- So there must be, er...

..lots of people in homosexual relationships.

- Lots?

- Yeah, I would say lots.

- I have never in my life met a homosexual couple.

I've never met it.

- Never, ever? - Never. - OK.

I think that...

..if you became really close friends with somebody... - Mm.

- ..and then you later on discover that they were homosexual... - Mm.

- ..and then this law was passed... - Mm.

- ..I think you'd have a different attitude to it.

- I don't think so.

- If you like... - I would, as a person, I would love them.

- Yeah. - I still don't agree with what they're doing, but I love them.

- OK, but then would you support them going to prison for 20 years?

- Why would they... - For being who they are.

- Is that who they are?

- That is... In my opinion...

- Or that's what they've chosen to be?

- I think that, you know, the fundamental difference

between what my viewpoint is and what your viewpoint is

and where we're never going to meet,

regardless of what we think about the treatment of this is... - Yeah.

- ..is that I don't believe it's a choice and you do. - Yes.

- And that is kind of the crux of the problem. - Yes.

Yes.

- Alex's insistence that this law has widespread support

does seem to be broadly true.

Only one MP voted against it in Parliament,

with 371 in favour.

- I put a question that the Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2023

be read the third time and do pass.

Those in favour, say aye, and to the contrary, nay.

- Aye.

- The ayes have it.

- I got that the country's religious

and that that would have shaped opinions,

but clearly some Ugandans feel otherwise.

Although it was hard to find anyone able to speak openly on the subject,

I did manage to contact an activist from Uganda's LGBTQ community,

to try and understand what life is like for gay people

in modern Uganda.

Her voice has been distorted to protect her identity.

Hello there. It's Romesh here.

So how are you feeling at the moment

with everything that's going on, the new laws that are passed?

Before this bill was passed,

what was life like for the gay community in Uganda?

So you're saying they've basically linked

homosexuality with child abuse.

Do people believe this?

Right.

It sounds so awful.

How do you feel about people visiting Uganda

with this way of life in place, with this kind of thing going on?

I mean, how do you feel about that whole thing?

You know, the honest truth is, I find it incredibly...

I find it incredibly upsetting, you know?

I just... My heart goes out to people.

I can't even imagine.

If you are a member of the gay community, or are a supporter

of the gay community, your life here is incredibly challenging.

People feel empowered to be homophobic

because they're backed up by law.

It's horrible, it's disgusting.

I mean, when I came to the country, I was hoping...

..that I could somehow kind of justify what's happened

with these new laws and that they hadn't been supported,

and this is something that people are up in arms about.

But having spoken to Alex,

who I think is fairly typical of the views in, in this country...

..I think not only is it a well-supported law,

I think it's a celebrated one.

I mean, the truth is that I really get on with Alex.

She's been an amazing host.

She's been a really effusive

and energetic advocate for Uganda as a country.

Um, but the fact of the matter is, we are fundamentally opposed

in our sets of views, and it's not coming from a bad place with her.

It's coming from a place where she feels family is important.

Um, and she wants it to be protected.

I also feel family is important and I want it to be protected.

But what our views are of what families look like

are completely different and we'll never agree on that.

It's left me feeling like I'm not really sure how I feel about Uganda.

You know, I've had...

..nice experiences, I've got on with Alex,

but it's something I'm just going to have to...

..I'm going to have to ponder over the next few days, I think.

The next morning, we headed further into the Ugandan countryside,

in the direction of Murchison National Park,

to experience more of rural Uganda.

We, er...

..we popped along to a village and we did like a, I would describe it

as a smorgasbord of village activities.

The first one was to meet up with a man

whose family's been responsible for providing the village with

banana-based, er, beverages.

- Hello. - You are welcome. - Thank you.

- I'm good. - I'm Romesh.

- I'm Mugabe Robert.

- Nice to meet you. - Mugabe Robert.

- His name was Mugabe Robert.

I'll let you figure out who he's named after.

- It takes, like, 15 minutes.

- Oh, OK. - Yeah.

- There are three stages to those beverages.

Uh, first is banana juice,

and you distil that, you get yourself banana beer.

Distil that again, you get yourself banana gin.

- No muscle, no juice.

- No muscle, no juice.

- Yeah.

So there's a, there's an art to it, Romesh.

- Yeah. - Put your shoulder in it.

Like this, like this.

- ALEX LAUGHS

Oh! Absolute banana carnage.

Er, the way you make banana juice is you squash some bananas.

Oh! - Oh, OK.

- Loads of muscle, loads of juice.

And you add water to it.

You then get banana leaf and you use that to make a banana filter.

You pour the banana liquid through the banana filter

into a banana juice jar.

And that, my friend, is banana juice.

And I would describe that taste as a lot like bananas with water.

And then you distil that and it becomes banana beer.

Thank you. That'll do. Cheers, Mugabe Robert.

- For us here we say bonga.

- Bonga! - Bonga.

- Bonga. Oh, you've already started, OK.

And I'd describe that taste as a lot like bananas with water and mud.

And then, finally, that is distilled again

to make the banana gin.

Bonga. - Bonga.

- And I'd describe that as bananas with fire.

COUGHS

- See?

- Woo!

You sort of get an initial banana-y taste,

and then you feel like...

I would describe it as an intense chemical burn.

COUGHS

Uh, it felt like it had undone

all of the Yakult I'd drunk in my life.

There's literally nothing left inside me.

- Take a sip. Just...

You can sip.

- Oh, I sort of knocked it back like a heathen, didn't I? Sorry.

- Do you want to mix up juice?

- No, it's fine, it's fine, I like it.

I like it uncut.

It killed not only bacteria, but emotions

and feelings.

I've not felt anything since.

Bonga! You've got a half measure there, mate.

Woo!

ROMESH LAUGHS

- Are you sure you're OK? - That's great. That is good stuff, man.

Congratulations.

I am battered.

Cut. - How many fingers? How many?

Look.

- Huh? I couldn't tell you that even without being drink.

Drink? Dronk?

LAUGHS

- Wow! OK.

That's enough. Thank you.

Please.

This is... This is dangerous.

- I was licked.

I was banana split.

I was absolutely hammered.

And I was so drunk that I thought, "This can't be

"how I'm going to feel going forward. This must be like

"an initial banana buzz and then I'm going to overcome it."

But no, that is how I felt for the rest of my day in the village.

It did not...

It did not subside at all.

Hey! I'm Romesh.

- Annette.

- Annette. - Yes. - OK.

Hello.

The idea of sort of starting the day with nine tots of banana gin

and finishing it with needlework,

er, doesn't seem that smart to me,

but that is what we did.

- Yeah. - Oh.

I have to go through the... OK. Oh! Hey!

If anybody wants to have a go at basket weaving,

do it sober would be my tip.

Tell me, can you tell the bit where I started?

- Yes, please.

- THEY LAUGH

- Well, put some energy into it.

It has to be tight, man.

- This is bad, isn't it? - It's not so bad.

- It's bad, isn't it?

- It's bad! Wow!

- Oh, no.

I asked her to check my work and she undid everything I'd done.

I can't even see this, let alone myself, mate.

Three weeks of work from Annette.

Seven minutes of work from Romesh to completely ruin it.

And then I had to go and meet a herbalist. I thought,

"That's the last thing I need."

Er, would you mind giving us some examples of what some people

in the village have come to you?

What kind of problems they've come to you with?

And how does the, um...

Just, I'm picking one at random.

How does the Viagra work on the body?

There's a root that, if you grind it into a powder

and add it to your coffee or your tea, it makes you fiercely sexual.

He sort of said, you know, you can take this,

it's going to give you an erection.

But once you get that erection, you've got to do something with it.

Do you know what I mean? Like, otherwise it's a wasted hard-on.

I guess if you just wanted to...

I don't know, if you wanted to change your shadow.

Er, if you wanted to...

LAUGHS

We took another especially long drive north. Long enough even for me

to recover from the banana beer.

We eventually arrived at our final destination,

Murchison National Park,

home to an embarrassment of wild animals

and spectacular waterfalls.

First, though, we headed over to the ruins of an old hunting lodge,

once home to the country's notorious dictator Idi Amin.

Um, what is the perception of Idi Amin in Uganda?

- When you say Idi Amin,

at least for me, I know many people died.

- Right. - Right.

Um, so it's not positive, that's for sure.

- Yeah.

It doesn't come up much in chat.

- No, he does not.

- He's sort of seen as the ultimate kind of mad dictator.

Do you know what I mean?

Like in terms of, like, obviously he did a lot of stuff,

but just... He did a lot of stuff that was like kind of, um,

just a bit wacky.

- He challenged the president of Tanzania to a boxing match.

- Yeah. - That was funny.

And then he'd said Muhammad Ali would be the referee. Winner.

- SHE LAUGHS

- I'm sure Muhammad Ali said, "Wow."

- A former British soldier,

Idi Amin became president of Uganda

after a coup in 1971.

- So help me God.

- At first welcomed as one of a new breed of outward-looking,

modern African leaders,

Amin's reign quickly descended into a brutal mixture

of blood-letting and farce.

- The members of the Defence Council

and the entire people of Uganda consider me,

I am the conqueror of the British Empire.

- His idiosyncratic style has become legendary.

He declared himself the King of Scotland

and launched the Save Britain Fund

to help with the UK's financial woes.

In 1972, he ordered that all Asians must leave the country

within 90 days.

An apparently popular move

that served to collapse the entire economy

and isolate his regime in the eyes of the world.

- What will happen to these people if they don't go by the time they have?

- I think they will be sitting like they're sitting on the fire.

I will tell you this.

You just wait after three months.

- What will you do to them? - OK. You will see.

- By 1974, he was engaged in a reign of terror.

Rumours swirled of cannibalism and madness

as 300,000 people were killed.

In a desperate attempt to forge national unity,

in 1978, Amin started a war with neighbouring Tanzania.

The strategy failed and Amin was driven into exile in Saudi Arabia,

where he eventually died in 2003.

He was survived by his six wives and 43 children.

He's quite a colourful dude.

Like, you'd almost like him if it wasn't for the fact that

he did a load of horrible stuff when he was in charge.

I've got this name here, right?

This is what he called himself. - OK.

- So Idi Amin... - Mm-hm.

- ..called himself His Excellency... - Right.

- ..president for life,

Field Marshal Alhaji Doctor Idi Amin Dada,

VC, DSO, MC,

Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the seas,

and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in general

and Uganda in particular.

- Well... - I mean, what do you think of that?

I mean, some of those claims are true. - He had humour.

Well, yes, he was the...

- I mean, part of it sounds like the tag line of a Marvel film.

What would your title be?

- Um... - Yeah.

- Princess of Buganda. - Yeah.

- And Uganda in general.

Might as well!

- Yeah, yeah. - Lover of jeans.

- Yeah. - Lover of jeans.

And meat.

- Yeah. - I love meat.

- I think mine would be Romesh Ranganathan... - Mm-hm.

- ..vegan father... - Oh.

- ..er, husband to disappointed wife,

ruler of comedy in Britain

and Crawley in particular.

And purveyor of lazy eye.

There you go.

- He did other things that were a bit strange, so to speak. - Yeah.

- Um, people weren't allowed to walk on the street with, in slippers.

- Yeah. - And so they, they were made to eat them.

- OK. Well, I mean, apart from the eating thing, I do sort of...

I do sort of agree with that.

Hello. - Hello.

You're most welcome, sir.

- Thank you very much. - Yes.

My name is Silva.

- We met a ranger who'd agreed to show us what remained

of Idi Amin's game lodge

and ensure we didn't get eaten in the process.

- Me and my colleague just checked a few minutes back

to make sure we are safe walking there. - OK.

- We saw, like, prints for leopards.

- For leopards? - But we made sure we check

every corners of the structure... - Mm-hm.

- ..and we didn't find any, so we are safe to move there.

OK, can we walk there? - Yeah, let's go. - After you.

- Seeing lots of concrete.

It used to be such a powerful lodge.

- What happened to it?

- This one was looted and in the process, there was no control.

This lodge just caught fire

and it's how it got destroyed. - Wow.

- Yes, you can step down. Step down there. - Down here?

OK. - It was actually one of the most beautiful lodges in the park.

- Did Amin come to this lodge? - Yes.

There is actually another point where he wanted to put

the headquarters of his district.

- So we've talked a bit about Idi Amin and the sillier things,

his long name, you know, some of the things he got up to.

But there is a much darker side to what he did, you know.

During his time in power, 300,000 people died.

Do you know people who lost family members during this time or...

- I mean, the king who was exiled.

- Yeah. - Amin wasn't the president then,

but he was, like, really in charge of the army

that came to attack our, um, palace.

So that is the closest relationship I have.

But my mum told me it was difficult when Idi Amin was president.

She was working in government.

People disappeared, people died.

So, you had to be careful,

is what I remember her saying.

- And can I ask you a question?

Give me an honest answer, I won't get offended. - I will try.

- Is it annoying, is it slightly annoying for you

that for somebody that wasn't even alive at the time,

you're now having to field questions about Idi Amin

because I want to find out about Uganda?

I mean, is that something that you thought I would ask you about?

Is that something you think, "Why the hell is he asking about this?"

It was such a long time ago.

- Um, everybody I meet... - Yeah.

- ..only knows Idi Amin.

Like, when you say, "I'm from Uganda."

"Oh, Idi Amin!" I'm like...

we've had so many presidents between him and now.

We have a president that has been here for a long time.

We do have an Asian community.

We've got Asian businessmen that have been here for a while.

But the really interesting thing is, after Idi Amin left,

um, it didn't get any better.

It got worse. There was civil war,

lots of wars, killings.

Uganda wasn't a fun place to live.

I don't know how my mum made it.

- And what do you think of, er...

..the state of Uganda now

in terms of how it's being run and stuff? Are you...

- There's always an opportunity to do better.

When you came in, you saw all the potholes. - Yeah.

- I think we could do better in governance, just administration...

- OK. - ..of our resources to make sure,

like, we maintain what we have.

I think we could do better.

Having the oil is really great for our country.

There's challenges that come with having so much oil.

But I think it's a good thing we have these additional resources

because our government has been trying to diversify income,

and this is one of the ways.

We do have peace,

which, according to people who are older than me,

is...is... I mean, they always say,

"You don't know what you, what you have until you lose it."

Right? So for them having peace...

..is enough. - Yeah.

- Um... - By comparison.

- Yeah.

I don't think there'll ever come a time

when we'll completely draw a line and forget about it.

It's just not possible. - Mm.

- Um, but there will come a time where...

..it's not the main issue.

It's not the main point of discussion.

Um, I do hope that is soon.

I think it will be.

- If we do a part two to this... - Mm.

- ..you know, if I ever come back...

- Uh-huh. - ..to do another travel show,

my first question will be, "Tell me more about Lake Victoria," OK?

- You promise? - I won't even mention Idi Amin. - Good. OK.

- Unless they uncover something new about him.

In which case, it'll be my, you know, it'll be my duty

on behalf of the BBC.

As the final stage of our journey, Alex had arranged for us to visit

the world-famous Murchison Falls from a boat.

Something for the crocodiles to chew on. - Great.

- Journeying upriver

whilst dodging the numerous deadly animals on the shore,

which would lie perhaps in wait.

Look at this, Alex. - It's so calm.

It is looking at us. - Oh!

Oh, my God, look at that, it's showing its butt.

- How fast do they swim?

- Hippos in water, they can get up to 7.8km per hour.

And on land, 30.2 on land. They're quite fast.

- That's a nightmare cos I'm 7.7 in the water

and 30.1 on the land, so...

I'm not sure why they would catch me.

Real shame. Let's get out of here.

WHISPERING: Oh, my God, there's a croc right there.

Holy shit, look.

How close are we going to get to this thing?

- They can get up to five to six metres long,

and they can live up to 100 years.

- It's almost part of you, like, wants to go and poke it

to see if it's alive.

- Try.

Try and throw something.

Oh, it's moving!

It's moving. - It's heading towards the crew boat.

Cool, it's disappeared.

Let's get the fuck out of here.

Oh, my God, I love elephants, man.

Look at that.

- Wow! Wow!

Whoa!

- That is crazy, isn't it?

These falls, sometimes known as the Kabalega Falls,

are arguably the most spectacular thing that happens to the Nile

during its 4,000-mile journey,

as the enormous river is forced through a gap

just seven metres wide,

plummeting down 141 feet,

before heading out west to Lake Albert.

It has been described by people, who are almost certainly wrong,

as the world's most powerful waterfall.

Wow.

This is incredible.

- It feels a bit threatening to me.

Like, "Oh, my God. I'm going to get you," that kind of thing.

Woo!

- Wow. - Come on now.

Yeah.

Welcome to Murchison Falls.

- This is amazing.

- It is.

It gets really intense. - Well done, Alex.

- Oh, thank you so much.

- I mean, I know you didn't make this, but... - You're welcome.

- This is a category shit yourself and die. - Die.

- Genuinely amazing.

Have you got your swim stuff?

ALEX LAUGHS

When I first came here, I knew nothing about this country, really,

just Idi Amin.

But Uganda has got a handful of

once-in-a-lifetime experiences, you know.

It's got all of the stuff that I was sort of expecting

in terms of natural beauty, wildlife,

but it's got that and then some.

For those things alone, it's been an amazing experience.

And on top of that, people are fantastic.

Everybody pretty universally is friendly and welcoming,

and they give you the feeling that they're delighted to see you

in the country.

DIRECTOR: - Oh, there's an otter behind you.

- See what I mean?

You're just doing a little piece to camera and an otter pops up.

That's what it's like here, it's like being in Narnia.

There's amazing wildlife.

It's just set up beautifully for you to come and have a visit.

And on the other hand, you've got a country

that has just passed

what I would describe as a disgusting law

that has widespread support.

Violence against people from the, from the gay community

is essentially being sanctioned and being supported.

It's horrific.

The question is...

..would I visit this country knowing all of that?

And the truth is, despite all of the wonderful things

that Uganda has to offer...

..I don't think I could.

I don't think I can wholeheartedly recommend this as a place to come.

I've made my opinion, but I think that is up to you.

It's a matter of whether you can come here knowing

that that's in place.

You've got an amazing country that has loads to offer,

the people are incredibly friendly

and so I think it's up to everybody

to make their own personal choice.

Next on our trip, I'm off to Rwanda.

I'm very, very excited about it.

Um, that's on the one hand.

On the other hand, we are one third through the trip,

and I'm absolutely exhausted.

I'm very grateful. - Oh, thank you. - Thank you so much.

- Enjoy Rwanda. - I will do.

I would say that these chats

are going to be slightly lower energy as we go forward.

By the time we get to Madagascar,

I'm going to have to get someone else to do them.

Oh, my...

ROMESH LAUGHS

Too close, too close, too close, too close.

That's good shit.

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