Original subtitles

easy so the first time I X showed me the

insects website I was horrified what is

wrong with anyone that they would want

to do something this horrible to women I

freaked out it was like what kind of

pervert are you okay a more extreme one

than me because you know we all pass

judgments but me being the kind of

pervert that I am I thought about it and

I thought about it and I thought about

it and I thought about it and eventually

I started looking at the preview stuff

while he was at work and after a while

what I figured out was part of the

reason that insects horrified me so much

is because I really wanted to be doing

those things but I had a lot of shame

based reactions because those are not

things that are socially acceptable in

any way

is this very piece sent FBI people to my

door my wife answered the door and I

wasn't there they asked if they could

see my work or something she brought him

in short of a darkroom and stuff and I

think they realized that there was

nothing really criminal going on so they

decided to turn it over to the local

vice squad and I ended up having to get

a lawyer to extract myself from that

because they would not leave me alone

this is when I knew that my work was

somehow fucking weird you know what I

mean like beyond porn see her moving

she's very much involved in it see

you're trying to remote and acting the

thing

finally when I got the Carnegie Mellon

in 1995 I was able to really put it all

together because they had fantastic

access there yeah I had already gone

through graduate school doing live

performances at these places in buff

America artists and models it came to a

climax so because it was clear that they

weren't going to allow me tenure with

the kind of work that I was doing this

bondage subject infused euphemistically

and the various methods into my work I

had a meeting with the Dean and it came

down to a final statement for me that if

they're not going to allow me to teach

their children then I will corrupt them

I was really nervous and really

anticipating it a lot I had looked at

the stuff on the website and it looked

really terrifying but I kind of knew

that it was edited to be a you know to

have a certain amount of shock value or

something the you know it's a creation

you know anything is like that that the

reality of how something is made doesn't

necessarily correlate with what it looks

like

can we have some close-ups of that star

how are you doing honey you're just

acting right that's great

fucking great this is what I want it's

like it's gonna be a lot harder to copy

this it's more like Gord Christine this

is what I want it's this struggle like

this you know what I'm saying here it's

like to me this is you're out of focus

okay can I have a shot straight down

sideways the whole thing began with one

of my cousins she had a lot of wonderful

Wonder Woman books who was always using

a last suit and she had this desire to

tie me up which is precisely what she

did one night and she also had her

friends over her girlfriends over and

instead of letting me out when I became

alarmed over the fact that I had to go

to the bathroom they continued to tickle

me and all of a sudden I felt like I

went to the bathroom and my tone really

changed at that point and they became

nervous and they did let me out

and when I went to the bathroom and my

pants lo and behold was probably my

first orgasm I guess you could say and

that was really the imprinting that

endeared me to the subject of bondage it

was really reinforced by my Vietnam tour

of duty up until then I was full of

guilt and

right over the fact that I had these

thoughts in the American Society a ship

went to Yokosuka Japan I went to a club

there's beautiful Japanese girls and

kimonos were serving sake the girl he

was talking to me a couple of guys came

over grabbed her and next thing I know

she was holed up onto the stage where

she was tied up she was stripped and it

was very sexual and she was very excited

by it and they made a point of showing

that very graphically there was such a

cultural shock if you will an alien

society where bondage was just another

kind of sexual expression the most

pervasive quality of that performance

was the artistic aspect of it the

kimonos the lighting the attention to

the rope technique an elaborate tie that

had its own meaning its own form and

I've out I think at that moment to try

to bring that idea to the United States

I ended up doing a lot of painting when

I was in undergraduate school trying to

pass that off as art which is very

difficult

it became a major struggle to try to

introduce this subject matter or to

actually study it within my own society

this was up in the attic of my house

this is when things were getting a

little more sophisticated my early

bondage to you my playroom well I would

have the girl from in and I was just

photographing and I never had sex with

him because I I could remain faithful as

long as I didn't I bring my little man

out but I think it was a blessing

because I was able to study the

phenomenon of BDSM and then I became

very involved in getting the girls off

there wasn't so much about my penis

anymore it was about the girls state of

mind and that's where I really developed

a lot of those types of studies if you

will or practices which is kind of like

what the insects was about you become

the handler but you have to enjoy it in

the distance

I'm still okay

what happened was it was a former

student she called me one day and said I

know that work you do I'd like to work

participated

it wasn't about modeling anymore you

know

it was about being unfaithful to my wife

I was in the throes of a midlife crisis

I guess you could say where your life is

known was pretty much I was 47 yeah that

was a difficult time of life you know

that transition from marriage and some

minor teaching position to shows in New

York teaching at Carnegie Mellon and

launching that web site that was really

me coming out risking everything

scary I mean when I started in sex I had

$25,000 in card debt to finance

computers it was so frightening I

thought I wanted to kill myself I think

it would seem so pathetic and hopeless

it was pathetic and hopeless

I started this website and it took off

but it was just such a whim or something

but I hadn't studied the internet I'd

studied HTML and flash and director I

had all the skills to do it and one of

my former colleagues from Buffalo

offered to put up the server fourth

because he saw the potential there yeah

it was just like an experiment and then

all of a sudden the ticket started

coming in you know and I think within

like two weeks I had made more money

than I would make and a half a year of

teaching within two weeks it was almost

as if everybody was just waiting for

this site to come up

when I first saw insects I had I'd moved

to San Francisco by that stage so it was

it will have been 1998 late 1998 or

probably early 1999 and yeah I mean I

was always blown away by it and what the

stuff he was doing was fantastic it was

just you know genius at work I mean the

guy obviously was was way ahead of his

time

the porn scene around the time I

discovered insects I think it was 1997

there wasn't a lot out there usually the

girls were fully clothed I was a very

glamour bondage always the same thing

red ball gags and some white clothes

line

you know wrapped around them in some

sort of haphazard fashion and then I

came across insects pictures they were

like nothing else I'd seen before they

were gritty grainy there was something

serial-killer esque in them I'd say

there is a person very dark that had not

seen in any of the other pictures I

couldn't tell if it was real or not it

looked like maybe this guy really did go

out and capture some girls and drag them

back to his apartment and then just do

whatever he wanted to them they were

bound and tight leather straps and hoods

contorted in really awkward positions it

was stuff that was really hot to me

because it was obvious that it was like

it was a good aspect of realism to it

even if these girls work were consenting

as of course I later learned of course

they were these girls were not acting

once the scene was under way they were

they were taking full part in it I

joined right away I mean for a college

student $60 I think at the time was was

a lot of money that's that's basically

beer money

two months but I I said screw it I'm I'm

buying a membership instead

respect on this thing right yeah your

gang course and these pants reflector

tits

this is tighten your ankles or your big

toes and then these are going to be

pulled away so your legs and keep your

legs up oh just go like that like that

you're gonna keep struggling and working

okay slowly your tips keep getting

pulled and how much of your each don't

mean to struggle with thee as long as

you come up

three hours would be good as long as you

can you know like maybe more hysterical

more screaming or more hysteria as it

unfolds you know

the action rolling

hold again very good one more

excellent good work in which I do some

close-ups now

yeah drives over now

it was back in 1997 and that's when my

my submissive at the time and I met

Brent India

I turned to Brent and I said you know

what you need for this site to really

make some fucking money I said you need

pretty girls that you could torch it to

shooting text I put it in like writing

and writing filming photography or

bondage smiling yes I'm going to be tied

up with torture or care to be torture

you understand that the penetration can

be both vaginal or anal yes I do

okay and you're okay with that yes I as

long as the ass ones aren't really

beautiful as long as he has invested in

the Air Force

I think I bought in all the models for

about a two year period

I was very intimidated by what I saw

actually the first thing that I did see

I was quite queasy I'd always consider

things to be beautiful pretty glamorous

I hadn't considered the aspect of pain

torture or things of a more run-down and

dressed or a look but I did know

somewhere inside of me that I was quite

capable of doing it and would probably

in fact enjoy it

what I did prior to going up there as I

would look at all the footage I could

then go directly into the bedroom and

masturbate about what I saw I suppose

I've been interested in it all my life

but haven't really known until probably

five years ago our 1990

honestly where how far back forehead or

your measurements 352736 size shoes 9

in boots anywhere from 7 to 9 in Samuel

Beckett's

there's an expressed interest in

expanding your limits when you're afraid

for example right like percussion sorts

a painter are they oriented frightening

to you right yes why would you say

something that you find startling in

that manner

well for me I knew there was a sexual

connection somewhere that had been

internalized for a long time and when I

did see this I I intellectually

recognized that and sought it out as a

rite of passage I started working there

when I was living in New York my old

college roommate for 411 had started

working at insects but she kept it a

secret for me and when she finally

revealed her her real job to me I was

totally intrigued and wanted to try it

and went and met PD and Matt it was at

night and we did like a little interview

and they tied me up they hogtied me and

they put a hood over me and I'd never

used a vibrator and they like vibrated

me to come and make me lick her pussy

and I've never had never been with a

girl before so that was really all new

to me and I was intrigued enough to want

to go back and you know the money was a

big a big part of it I was in college

and I I'd never made a lot of money

before doing anything I'd waited tables

this year was really tough so I figured

that you know if I can handle you know

what happened that insects previously

and then that helped me you know

go through the first year of school I

figured you know I can come here and

then be you know a step higher

kind of like an achievement not actually

like educational in a way but kind of

like something like inside and emotional

that you know I have reached that you

know higher level and it'll help me

through the rest of school hopefully I

was studying gender and sexuality and

photography and there was another girl

in my photography department who had

worked who had answered the ad I guess

and gone there and modeled once or twice

and she said it was it was good money I

was I was I was stripping at a time and

I was tired of doing that so I was

looking for something else I was going

to school and I was living in the dorms

and I was just not a happy person and I

was broke

and I was looking for like it's a cool

way to make money a safe space where

somebody else is you know somebody else

is in charge of in some ways somebody

else is in charge of my health and

safety I mean of course as a submissive

you're always partially in charge of

your own health and safety also but um

but ostensibly it's set up so that you

are kind of helpless during this time

period and you can express yourself in

any way you know you can say stop no

don't I hate this this sucks

without without safe wording without

deciding that you want it to end and and

after it's over you know you've you have

a closing on it I was kind of supporting

my ex-boyfriend and money was starting

to get really irritating

it was a very depressing time for me

you know the torture stuff was a release

you know like I said it made me it

dissipated dissipated the depression a

little bit you know God got rid of rid

of the depression because it you know it

makes you feel so good that you can can

take it you know I saw a picture of PD

they gave me their ticket number I saw a

picture PD and I still remember the what

he was doing he was he had a girl tied

up in the stool and he was just looking

at her and I was like oh my god that

there is my I have to meet this man I

said I'm gonna email and they offered me

to model there I wasn't a model I never

modeled anywhere and I just wanted a

relationship so when I contacted the

site I was hoping I could get a private

session with PD and I think because my

friend who introduced me the site and

had told me about he had seen mistresses

and how he had always paid to do a scene

with a mistress so I was under the

impression there was no money discussed

and I was just totally under the

impression that I would have to pay PD

to do a scene with him and just was

funny of that worked out that I I was

getting paid because in sex was the most

well known site they became little

starlets in this little world just gave

them an ego and some importance that

they were somebody

spacegirl and I were dating at the first

time I took it to the studio though

light bondage games that we were playing

in our bedroom would always stop when

any sort of pain was introduced she

would for example she'd allow me to to

get to hog-tie her or you know spank or

lately things like that but if things

ever got a little too painful I smacked

a little heart-to-heart she didn't like

that but once she came to the studio

when she was in front of the cameras and

lights Ron she would do just about

anything in her case she was an addict

so she needed that constant influx of

money and she knew that if she performed

well that PD would give her the money

out he didn't know what she was using

the money for he was just compensating

the models were extremely well for it

for putting on fantastic performances

listening I've been instructed to go by

the name of YX the naming of the models

was a reaction to one model and her

boyfriend basically plotting and

offending me using her name that she

created it in sex as a kind of a lure

try to draw my membership to their

website that's when I began to realize

that these models were were not just

innocent girls anymore and so I decided

to put numbers on the girls as a

reaction to that they saw that no matter

how often the girl tried to use that

number to draw attention to herself she

would all ultimately refer back to

insects if you model for insects and you

got through an insect shoot and or live

feed you could model for any bondage

website on the internet because you were

not going to deal with anything heavier

or more intense than that there was a

lot of models that came to insects that

couldn't handle it that we used to that

glamour damsel in distress type of stuff

and after 15 minutes they would blow out

and leave

what are you thinking my okay if you

like this you're here voluntarily aren't

you what do you look over the city scene

what do you think is missing on you what

if I missed putting my knees to my chest

no there's something else yeah ah you

got it the gay let me see those socks of

yours what's the matter with you yes yes

in other words

you got any pissing you at all I'm sure

you know funny

you better start pissing right now I'll

be sitting and talking to this model and

we'll discuss you know okay for my first

question is what are your hard limits

and and what a hard limit is is what a

model won't do

I don't like the safeword as a matter of

pride especially at a live feed when you

know hundreds of people are watching you

and you don't want to wimp out like he

wanted what was happening on camera to

be real and he wanted that to be your

real dynamic so he wanted you to really

be he wanted you to really be scared and

really like be uncomfortable like not

just like oh this hurts it's you know

cuz caning hurts but I like it but like

god damnit you sadistic faculty I don't

want to do that electricity why are you

making me do the electricity again

we know that you have some experience

with water so yes and we just assumed

that you would be a tough girl this

particular scene but in fact it was

completely unnerving to go away I was

just wondering what what exactly do you

have tribute that to the cage just the

fact you were in that cage I think it's

the cage I really think so I can be

small space I've always been aware of

the fact that this could be used as a

tutorial for some freak out there like

the gags I apply to the girls are just a

little a little too clever like a little

too well done but then at the same time

I also know that I was influenced by

criminal freaks

DiSalvo the Boston Strangler he would

pose the girls hillside strangler I know

these guys these serial killers and the

ones that are the most fascinating to me

the ones that use bondage camera is in

fact the binary who became criminal

which is unusual actually

I saw a Last House on the Left I saw

Texas Chainsaw Massacre when they first

came out in drive-ins there's obviously

a whole culture that was exploiting

violence when I first met him I came

into the studio and in the back there

was a sink attached to the wall and

there was a naked man in there

middle-aged naked man he looked like a

fish that leaves at the bottom of the

ocean where the pressure is too high for

anything to survive he got up stood up

in the sink and then slowly carefully it

got out and I started drying himself

with a black towel and he said to me

that I'll be right with you and that

that alone set me right into the you

know into what I'm what I'm going to

what I'm going to be doing here is going

to be borderline crazy which is nice

which is always interesting

the first thing that we did immediately

took his clothes off and sat down on the

floor and try to put it on himself he

was sweating he was in pain obviously

trying to feel it it wouldn't fit it was

always a struggle to make it fit the

beach and bread because even though he's

got some heavyset characters are usually

the beach is much smaller once he got a

vision he did not stop until it was

fulfilled completely the best story that

I have about it was dealing with hoods

with him we tried it several different

ways both in leather and in latex and

when what we thought was gonna work

wasn't working the way he wanted it to

he brought out this hood that he spent

two years making and told me about how

when he was in college he took apart and

remade this thing over and over and over

until it it was gonna fit everybody but

looked the way he wanted it to look

these are the shoes one of the most

interesting exciting projects

in a circle there was this whole round

of disembodiment projects where people

looked like they were amputees and one

of the things that I made for 411 we

even stuffed opera length gloves so that

we could velcro on fake arms

well obviously I remember the copy of

that antique piece he calls it a pair

that opens up in the vagina this is a

difficult word for me to say I cast it

in bronze and he thought it was like

about $10,000 for me for me the water

tank is the only project where I was

where I felt inadequate it certainly was

a sobering moment for me when I realized

how dangerous I had become with so much

money around I actually could Commission

a project that was completely uninformed

putting everyone in harm's way in a way

we had someone tell us the three-quarter

inch plate glass would be plenty but I

just accepted it because I was extremely

busy at the time if it wasn't for the

fact that the glass leaked every time we

would have easily been standing in front

of this as it bursts because we when

used to sit there and some kind of

rapture watching this tank fill

ruminating on when and where it's going

to leak and after the fourth time we

were completely routine with it and

nobody was around the tank and it was

just pure incompetence or you know I

using the word incompetence on the film

well that's because you had actually the

one that promoted the idea of the

three-quarter inch I wasn't going to

bring that up but I had let other people

decide what was safe and what was doable

with this not allegedly is this are you

still filming no no no no no don't

allegedly allegedly so everything that

happened wrong with this thing as it

always the case is my fault

well I wanted a four foot high tank he

wanted an eight foot high four foot high

would have been managed with any with a

simple three-quarter inch plate of glass

I I just I mean you you you made your

speech about this project right I just

want to respond a point by Paul I never

directed any criticism to you about it I

just I blame myself for being so foolish

that's on film I mean you know you blame

me I mean this is like KGB this case UB

you even started talking like like I

talked to you into the into this being

eight feet tall that's exactly what

happened yeah but but how's that my

fault I mean this is anyway anyway we

never I just want to say this on film

I'll never ever put anybody into harm's

way because like you know you should

realize that at the times when when we

are being persecuted by the government

you shouldn't say things like I'll let

you put anybody into the harms attempted

murder people can go away for like one

of the environments and know people who

work in construction industrial

environments are constantly being hurt

and you know I'm hearing I mean this is

a pair for the innocent

part not here here nobody gets hurt

unless matters that I had direct control

of ie the sets the suspensions all of

the various stunts if you will yes they

were very carefully controlled this is

where I had other people doing it

because I could afford to and I ignored

basic fundamental issues of safety

that environment with the safest I've

ever worked in my life we everything we

did we tested first if we ever hung a

girl from something both Brett and I

would jump on it and hold it to make

sure that it was safe if we were doing

something underwater we would test it

off-camera everything we did we tested

and tested and tested Petey had this had

this statement he said when it comes to

safety we defer to the most paranoid

that was fucking weird she was getting

this Miami to stare at as well I don't

actually

what's her eating situations

she had breakfast and it's 542 let's go

eat

are you aware that you may get little

marks from the ropes so-called broke

piggy's Sam and you're fine with that

I'm fine with that or you can also have

some from joggers and canes yes and you

okay with that yes I'm aware that

bruises or marks or temporary miles

injury be inflicted that's all okay all

over my body but not in my face so

everything else I saw this moment she

had just done a scene with my friend

Rick Savage

then quit shooting and she just went

into that fetal position on the bed and

I went over to her you know a month

later and I said dusty would you allow

this picture and I'm thinking she's

gonna say no because it looked like she

had been abused and she's got all these

yeah that's how little I knew and she

looks at the picture she goes wow what

fabulous bruises that's fantastic of

course she can be a citizen and that was

kind of the first thing I learned about

SM that was like the first thing I went

oh okay

there's a different way to look at this

that's pretty bad

easy pain is a very prejudicial term in

the sense that that was a value judgment

associated with that that somehow this

is a negative thing apart from other

good intense experiences like an orgasm

but they are all common kind the gradual

increase of the ordeal finally to where

there's actual corporal punishment

builds up a kind of excitement and

tolerance of it endorphins and also

adrenaline and that all of these ex

their hormones in the body would create

a state of euphoria and then you couple

that with orgasm you end up with a like

an aesthetic experience tantamount to

something religious what would you call

that substance you're on it's really

good

that's the money shot that lassie I

euphoric state that you would see on

their faces at the end of the show

Oh God I was supposed to get reported

what just happened as we were finishing

the scene and I was getting at ID week

we heard of a loud knock at the door

like the kind that you take like a bad

flashlight and knock on the door and two

police officers just came in apparently

I screamed so much that the rest of the

people in this building just called the

police on us which in our seven years of

has yet to happen so I think I did

emerge whatever nice

I confided in my sister what I was doing

where I was going what was really going

on and her first instinct was oh my god

you're in porn I said no it's not porn

it for some reason it felt something

totally different

it wasn't dirty it wasn't just people

taking off their clothes having sex just

because to make a buck

it was something totally different

something more intense more real more

genuine and I felt honest in my heart

that I could say without any any

question that that I wasn't doing porn

is it point

fucking-a it's point okay but I'd like

to look at it as art the phenomenon that

happened in sex it was unusual or

totally unique was the explicit goal of

trying to give the girl an orgasm to

create a sexual drama for the girl the

emphasis was on the girl on her

predicament in her state of mind none of

mine

Brent no matter how fucked up he is as a

person he is is the Michelangelo in my

opinion of bondage and and and torture

it was alright if something was

avant-garde it was alright if something

was different than any other shoes that

they've done before in fact that was

something that Brent's strived for not

getting stuck in a rut but embellishing

further those people that he was

inspired by like Eastern niggers such as

Nike and Ronda my or illustrators like

John Willy pressured The Shard work I

almost passed out I couldn't really how

vivid and imagine that it was it was so

artful and painstaking that obviously

had transcended the shallow commercial

quality of porn and not only that what

you had to buy the book in France now

obviously wasn't being sold in the

United States you know so it was a again

another idea that I had to go outside

the United States to get any kind of

quality information

I'm really a product of media I mean the

whole thing about insects was informed

by Marshall McLuhan and Baudrillard the

medium is the message I was very into

creating a product on the web I was not

selling CDs that's why the shows were so

important and sexy because they

epitomize what the internet offered

which was interactivity not only did I

do the show of the girl but the members

were talking back in a chat that was

projected on the wall their

participation was extremely important

that was unprecedented and unique to

live well when I saw that he was was

doing shows and chats I was amazed you

know I was like really excited people

had input as to what they wanted to see

and there was this computer-generated

voice that when somebody type something

you could hear that figured out how to

hook the TV up to my laptop and we were

watching live feeds and interacting well

we all had a party the girl would make

it face $300 an hour but there would be

bonuses involved oh she did really good

for us oh he cried and she really put up

and died the members really liked it

that last caning was so hard and brutal

and you can make bonuses up to 2000 at

the nipple I feed a reality show that

was a show but it was also the reality

of the human condition there was sort of

like a buildup in the energy of it that

you know the first three hours of just

different bondage positions in three

hours of this really hard S&M play I

feel like I'm gonna start sending all

new agey or something but if it liked it

like him like with a song like it's

something you compose

that there's you know of this tension

there's this rising rising action and it

really with the life II do it was like

rising action and then climax and you

know not like necessarily much falling

action after that but um but God I I

would do it again

the second live feed that I did I had

prepared for it so much in my head that

I was ready to take anything and I had

requested all of the things that we did

on that shoot

she was already nude in a cage and then

she's asked to go out and put on makeup

suddenly that simple routine does the

epitome of the feminine mystique in our

society to put that on in some

ritualistic manner seem to hyper errata

sighs the act so it was like I got built

up and to like this construction of

femininity and then torn down for the

remainder of the show she loses that

makeup through tears through gags hoods

and other ordeals

ultimately there was the deconstruction

of her emotions of her vanity her pride

and she allowed it

she already knew what the levels of

voltage were that were going to be

applied to her her nipples to her

genitals but yet in the context of the

show I was able to say to her or

something like GE I'm gonna have to gag

you now because you're going to be

really screaming it was theatrical but

the elements of coercion of terror were

still very much a part of the show it

was a huge adrenaline rush for me and my

brain stayed in the scene and in the

action for those six hours nothing else

matters except what was physically

happening

I would do the first scenes and then I

would feel like oh my god I don't know

if I can go on from here you know and

then pulling out this reserve of

strength that was so exhilarating to

feel like you couldn't do anything more

and then to do it anyway

the thing that again impressed me with

the Japanese was the idea of a spectacle

a show it was not done in private in the

bedroom but was made to be witnessed it

was almost as if this violent subject

had to be witnessed by many people in

order to give it some some legitimacy or

a sense of safety as a model while I was

shooting or right afterwards

Ayelet I always felt really bad because

PD would storm off really pissed off

about something I was like oh man I just

I did a horrible job and it made me feel

bad first time I ever met friend he

wasn't even in the studio he had pulled

someone aside and he was yelling at them

in the hallway and he was basically

freaking out about a bandwidth contract

he was he was going on and on and on

about that's it I'm closing the site

there's no way I'm signing if that

$100,000 bandwidth contract there's no

way absolutely no way this is it we're

finished we're done you know site is

over I wanted to please him I wanted to

make him happy I wanted him to look at

my work and say yeah she did a really

good job and I finally realized I wasn't

gonna get that out of him so basically

about once a week Brandt would threaten

to close the site we bring in models for

a day a day she would be if I say

between 12:00 and 6:00

obviously I'm hired for the day hmm I'm

reading a book all right we're gonna try

this thing on and see if it works now

we're gonna go off and be disorganized

in some little artistic endeavor that

has nothing to do with the shoot we

might go into the garage for two hours

and build something to use all right

here well we'll do a half hour out no no

now we're distracted again you really

had to work with a girl two or three

times to get one weekly posting and it

was you know nowhere near efficient it's

a very different environment so it's a

lot more organic and artistic we

realized that we actually couldn't shoot

in the studio because of noise that was

being made so everything was shut down

and the one of the biggest productions

I've ever seen in my life started to

take place

I watched the studio get all packed up

put into a van and drive to the farm

he told me that we were gonna be at the

farm for a couple days

couple days went by and we weren't

leaving the farm and I was I kept asking

people of wine are we gonna leave the

farm and they were like we don't know

but they told me two days my girlfriend

is expecting me home like I have stuff

to do and they were like well you can

take the bus home I guess and I realized

you know if I took the bus home I

probably Brent probably would never ask

me back again so I was stuck up there

yeah it was two weeks before I came home

thank God I go home after and I go to

the other side of the country and I

don't even have to think about it again

for as long as I need and I couldn't

imagine being one of the people who was

there every day because the experience

for me just going for a week at a time

was so intense I needed decompression if

a girl was on a shoot and she said no to

something he stopped the shoot he would

get pissed off he would get angry

that's for head this one limit she did

want to be slapped and the live feed

started and the chat members say enter

slap her face slap her face and I think

Petey forgot that that might have been a

limit you just make a face huh

did you

you're answering me ask me

Oh

this will be a good lesson on the

persistence of a question overall we had

hundreds of members watching this slide

if a girl did a really good successful

life feat she can make three to four

thousand dollars

I should have done that did you hear the

member asking for news

we want to continue our lecture me

you want to stop now look you're trying

to gain control right now okay well then

just either decide to continue or shut

up

all right well we can stop

it's not about you and it's not about me

it's about what we're doing here

here's Sam

do you understand

there's still not participating areas

like we're holding your answers and

stuff you understand it's not about you

and it's not about me why did I slap you

oops

there you are holding your answers back

again who's in control here then answer

my question why did I slap you because

what that's a good okay now you

understand this is a show right now this

is different than real life isn't it

this is not real life is it this is the

show right if you hear it from a show

and you know the difference right do you

know the difference good idea so when I

slap you what was they doing putting on

a show right

you understand that right it wasn't

personal

nothing is personal what's that there

I can't understand you now say can you

speak out honey

I know but the problem is I can't ask

you every little thing that's going to

happen okay okay all right so you want

to continue now work if I won't do that

you still want to have control right

all right I'll let you have this victory

I will slap you again models would come

in and do what they did because they

needed a certain amount of money they

had to weigh what they had to do for the

amount of money that they were going to

get at one point it would come to where

it wasn't worth it where the girl wasn't

making in her mind what she thought was

enough to do what she needed to do and

in that also meant that if you didn't do

it you would never be invited back so it

wasn't just that money it was money down

the road

you might say I really began to know

these people very intimately these women

in such a strange way you know how often

do you get to know women except as a

lover you know which already what's the

word clouds it or fogs it but then look

but to examine them as as subjects

really as crude as that may appear for

for the site was really a hell of a view

of hell of a way to look at a person 101

complete intellectual woman she became

the first experiment with us called the

resident model this is where a girl

crosses over walks off that stage and

starts playing with my penis ultimately

it's now failed right a relationship

with a model

now that she was there all the time her

value to me increased immeasurably I

could fit devices to her with the

artists there so I gave her a stipend

was like $1,000 a week on top of that

she got paid for the gigs that she did

specialized shows that were fitted to

her rehearsals I mean a lot of the

stunts we pulled her rehearse obviously

because they they could be potentially

dangerous 101 and I profess the love for

each other I didn't really realize how

much I felt about her until the end

which is a sad story but in the meantime

she was making a lot of money and that's

how it proceeded until she went home one

weekend it was a drug situation

like I went home and

and got into drug binges and and yeah my

parents tried to try to talk me out of

it but funny about what doing that you

know with brain at the insects

establishment she was a resident a paid

resident in her parent's eyes she was a

courtesan a prostitute my parents talked

to Brent

they were shocked at how immature he was

his that he's their age you know and

they're like all like parents you know

they're not they're not like Fred

and

he made me stay with him if there was a

few months so I wouldn't you know head

back to the the drugs and it worked

from my point of view I ended up

visiting her in hospitals psychiatric

wards while she was on the roof draw

doing everything I can to try to like

fulfill my obligations to her

emotionally I mean I think I honestly

did indeed love her at least my

behaviors indicated as much

Brent always liked to try to exert his

his personality and his charming way to

try to get the girls after work to you

know get into bonding situations to do a

little bit a little bit of play

Brett started to tell me that you know

he'd worked with me a number of times

and it been enough that he was having a

hard time finding inspiration and that

if I didn't play with him off camera and

by playing it means him tying me up and

peeing on me and you know for some

people I'm sure it means fucking them

but that wasn't brought up for me and

you know doing whatever to try and

inspire him for a scene that if I didn't

do that it was just gonna be really hard

to work with me I got into a mold mainly

because of the the the residents of

playing with him off camera I guess

would be the best way to say it any

really violate a certain protocol they

are probably by doing that they come to

work but then they're like being tied up

off-camera and what he was telling me by

telling me that was that if I didn't

play with him off-camera and not get

paid for it or anything just on my own

time that I wouldn't have a job that

anymore that I wasn't allowed to come

back it she'd be like I don't want to I

don't want to can you tell him I can't

I'm like I can't tell him you can't you

have to tell him you can't burn wood ask

for things like that all the time but I

would just kind of laugh it off you know

he tried to convince me to be or he

offered me a position as a resident

there and made a couple jokes about how

I would have to suck his cock and I was

like well I have come to your resident

it's sometimes my attitude towards those

girls was not with their best interests

in mind I think it was about the

business

definitely being a model you're you're

you're treating much more special you're

special

being behind the camera person you're an

employee and you're you're not that

special anymore or you don't feel it

because somebody else is special the

model is special at that point and that

was hard for me especially when having a

relationship with PDA watching him

interact with models was probably the

hardest part for me of course I would

feel I think like any woman would feel

jealous or betrayed you want to cut it

off did you want me to cut it off I'm

sorry I didn't get that did you want me

to cut or do you want me to hold the

shot

I assume the obvious for you when you

cut cut all right maybe I almost I I

made a bigger in my mind some things I

made bigger my mind because because I'm

a woman or because of the way I felt or

I don't know why but it was definitely

it was definitely there was definitely

some hard times hard hard days of

watching him - shoots with and being

behind the camera if you played with him

it seemed like you made a bigger rate

like me and cowgirl was making probably

you know $1,000 a day and we would maybe

do one shoe but she and she knew and

she'd played with him at night

insects the financial success of insects

really transformed it they became less

of an inquiry and a fulfillment and

became a diabolical fright nightmare of

the worst possible kind or ie with the

proper you know what's the adage of once

there's money involved its money

corrupts or something one of the reasons

I think PD got such amazing content and

did some of the most amazing things he

did that other people have yet to really

copy have yet to really make happen is

he can make a girl while she's still

consenting to it do things that she

would have never otherwise done I had

the collar and the gag and my legs were

spread with the heels and the metal

dildo but I remember looking at Zeta and

it was it for me it was strange to have

a woman in the room and and seeing me

and so much distress and not not doing

something and but then you know coming

to realize that that that is that it's

my job to stay for it and it's my job to

say what I'm okay with and what I'm not

okay with and if I do say for it

Zeta is there to say okay we need to

stop now but if but I'm completely

responsible for everything that happens

to me while I'm there that was an

interesting realization for me I was

actually talking to Princess Donna about

this last night where she said she

always felt like she was entirely in

control no matter what was going on she

knew she could stop it and to me I

thought I was in control and I knew I

could stop it if I wanted to but it was

so discouraged to use your safe word it

was a sign of being weak I had never had

anal penetration for example and the

first thing or like the second thing he

did in a live feed was like mr. Pogo

fuck me with a huge dildo for someone

who'd never had anything in the ass and

he like didn't really ask me it was like

kind of like he whispered in my ear that

I'm like I'm gonna

I'm gonna do something I'm gonna do

something mr. Pogue er I'm gonna do

something anal area he said something

that you know told me what he was but I

didn't get it and it wasn't okay and I

was crying and I was screaming I mean I

feel like I was raped so I don't know I

mean there I but I wasn't I mean it was

okay I mean I could have said my safe

word

I could have said you know don't do that

but would we have continued with the

live feed I don't know what I have ever

come back I don't know

and ultimately it became that I wanted

to come back for the money and not for

the challenge and I would say it was

about the challenge but it wasn't it was

for the money

I never depended on the money I mean I I

guess I just gotten greedy and I liked

making it and I never really saw myself

as making $1000 a day or you know five

thousand in four days or whatever but I

never I mean I was in school and I was

waiting tables and I was never in that I

mean I would just go shopping with it

and be totally irresponsible but it was

just something that was fun for me

because I never had a lot of money you

know it was like it's fun it kind of

gave me a sense of what having a lot of

money felt like

the drive to make this business work

turn me into like some kind of a monster

probably I'm sure that paying these

girls the money that I did I think I

absolutely assumed that they had to do

what I wanted them to do that was the

contract there and if I thought I was

getting resistance from them then they

were not satisfactory I tried to

rationalize it - I mean that's not

unlike what you would see in any job

interview you don't want to pay too much

they can do the work but in this

instance where it's compressed into like

a five-hour span of time where you meet

the girl for the first time and there's

an urgency implicit in that she wants

that money and so we proceed we start

marching down this path I have my

demands what I need for this business

now that's a full-blown 35,000 members

there were some girls that would add to

the idea I was just like in all you know

I was in love because he were assets

allies if you will in this goal they

understood it and they submerge

themselves in

I need my lawn did one nasty turn

our great movie should move you somehow

you should feel some sense of

identification with these characters and

with the director and with the person

who wrote it and everything when you

watch a great movie sometimes you come

out of there fully you know change for

life I know I have been I don't see any

reason why just the fact that

something's classifies pornography but

making any different

so yeah the government when they

announced that the creation of the

special task force to go after us that

was of course shocking as it always

would be for anybody else I I think it's

funny in the end the bullshit that they

go through to go off the brand who's not

a criminal not he never hurt a human

being that didn't want to be hurt the

government as we recently learned they

they have like prisons somewhere in

Eastern Europe where I incidentally come

from and they torture people they who

don't want to be tortured and and and

and we hear torture people who want to

be tortured and we pay them yet we are

the criminals

it's funny to me the government has a

really hard time trying obscenity cases

they end up losing them most the time

and no one's ever set a definition of

obscenity because it's subjective I

thought they would come at me through

the courts actually but they did it in a

much more insidious manner they put

pressure on the credit card companies in

the billing companies I had a bank

officer I'm not going to mention the

bank where or anything

confide in me prominent asking me to

promise not to mention where and how he

showed me the actual document that came

from the Homeland Security Department

suggesting that porn particularly

violent porn is used by terrorists to

funnel money that's how the government

is really controlling what you can see

as adults in privacy your own home it's

become more more difficult to get

merchant accounts back when I started

the business you know I like the first

night we applied so I think it was it

was hum hold I believe just just

approved our account now it's much more

difficult now there's only select few

banks that are doing adult work at all

and when you look at bondage it's still

fewer for instance how tied throughout

the years is this pressure was increased

we deferred to the pressure we don't

show this kind of harsh thing because

that's what our credit-card company said

don't do and we obeyed and I always felt

that brent was just in the fuck-you mode

he says no I'm an artist I'm gonna do

what I want if I want to use plastic

bags on the girl's head I did if I want

to use neckties on their head I did

because I wanted to create an order of

reality of or or fright at some level

and I use symbols of that and in the end

they won the credit card company one and

one day insects woke up and could not

process credit cards now that's the

killing stroke for a website because

people are lazy they don't want to take

the extra step if I told all my members

tomorrow that they can't sign up with a

credit card anymore they actually have

to write me a check and mail it to me

wait for it to get there hope I get it

hope I process it right and then email

you a password sometime in the next

couple weeks you'll get this no one's

going to do that

you