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1
00:00:16,012 --> 00:00:16,263
Uh, the victim's body was
Spotted by a tug operator
2
00:00:16,721 --> 00:00:19,015
About, uh, 7:30 that morning,
3
00:00:19,433 --> 00:00:20,225
And I arrived on the scene
4
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,435
An hour later, 8:20.
5
00:00:21,435 --> 00:00:22,978
An hour later, 8:20.
6
00:00:23,395 --> 00:00:24,479
And what did you find?
7
00:00:25,188 --> 00:00:26,440
Well, it appeared the body had
Been in the water
8
00:00:26,898 --> 00:00:27,441
For a couple of days, anyway,
9
00:00:27,441 --> 00:00:28,442
For a couple of days, anyway,
10
00:00:29,109 --> 00:00:30,402
And there were what appeared to
Be
11
00:00:31,111 --> 00:00:32,446
Numerous cuts and abrasions all
Over her body.
12
00:00:32,654 --> 00:00:33,447
Okay.
13
00:00:33,447 --> 00:00:34,448
Okay.
14
00:00:35,282 --> 00:00:36,450
Were you able to make an
Identification of the victim,
15
00:00:36,908 --> 00:00:38,201
Stacey miller, at the scene?
16
00:00:38,827 --> 00:00:39,453
Yes, sir, we were. There was her
Wallet.
17
00:00:39,453 --> 00:00:40,120
Yes, sir, we were. There was her
Wallet.
18
00:00:40,620 --> 00:00:41,663
We found her wallet on her body,
19
00:00:42,247 --> 00:00:43,623
And there was her photo, her
Address,
20
00:00:44,124 --> 00:00:45,459
So it was easy to make an I.D.
21
00:00:46,126 --> 00:00:46,793
And what did you do with that
Information?
22
00:00:47,377 --> 00:00:48,336
I gave it to one of the
Constables.
23
00:00:48,962 --> 00:00:49,754
He immediately put her into the
System
24
00:00:50,464 --> 00:00:51,465
To see if he could find anything
Else about her.
25
00:00:51,465 --> 00:00:51,673
To see if he could find anything
Else about her.
26
00:00:52,048 --> 00:00:53,467
Then what did you do?
27
00:00:54,342 --> 00:00:55,677
Well, since it wasn't very clear
What had happened,
28
00:00:56,303 --> 00:00:57,429
I decided I'd get homicide on
Down there,
29
00:00:57,804 --> 00:00:59,055
So they came down.
30
00:00:59,473 --> 00:01:00,849
Is that normal procedure?
31
00:01:01,266 --> 00:01:02,142
Oh, that's normal. Sure.
32
00:01:02,434 --> 00:01:03,477
You know...
33
00:01:04,269 --> 00:01:05,937
Whenever there's a possibility
Of foul play,
34
00:01:06,313 --> 00:01:07,481
I like to make sure
35
00:01:08,106 --> 00:01:09,065
That everybody's way out in
Front of it.
36
00:01:09,524 --> 00:01:11,026
Okay. Then what did you do?
37
00:01:11,651 --> 00:01:13,111
We had her body taken down to
The morgue.
38
00:01:13,778 --> 00:01:15,489
After homicide had processed the
Scene there,
39
00:01:15,489 --> 00:01:16,156
After homicide had processed the
Scene there,
40
00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:19,826
A full autopsy was performed on
Her,
41
00:01:20,535 --> 00:01:21,495
And we attempted to determine
The cause of death.
42
00:01:21,495 --> 00:01:21,786
And we attempted to determine
The cause of death.
43
00:01:22,370 --> 00:01:23,622
All right. Thank you, mr. Da
Vinci.
44
00:01:23,997 --> 00:01:25,499
That's all I have.
45
00:01:26,041 --> 00:01:27,501
Counsel may question the
Witness.
46
00:01:28,293 --> 00:01:31,796
When you first saw the body of
Stacey miller,
47
00:01:32,464 --> 00:01:33,507
How old approximately did you
Think she was?
48
00:01:34,049 --> 00:01:34,758
I thought pretty young.
49
00:01:35,258 --> 00:01:36,468
I thought maybe even a teenager.
50
00:01:36,968 --> 00:01:38,512
But she was nearly 30 years old.
51
00:01:39,095 --> 00:01:39,513
That's what her I.D. Said, yeah.
52
00:01:39,513 --> 00:01:39,930
That's what her I.D. Said, yeah.
53
00:01:40,388 --> 00:01:41,306
So she was a petite woman.
54
00:01:41,598 --> 00:01:44,267
Petite, yeah.
55
00:01:44,893 --> 00:01:45,519
Okay, these numerous cuts and
Abrasions
56
00:01:45,519 --> 00:01:46,144
Okay, these numerous cuts and
Abrasions
57
00:01:46,561 --> 00:01:47,646
On stacey miller's body,
58
00:01:48,146 --> 00:01:49,523
What did these suggest to you?
59
00:01:50,273 --> 00:01:51,441
I didn't know what they
Suggested at the time.
60
00:01:52,067 --> 00:01:53,068
Did you think she'd fallen in
The river,
61
00:01:53,568 --> 00:01:54,819
That the river had caused them?
62
00:01:55,529 --> 00:01:57,531
No, because they appeared to be
Puncture wounds.
63
00:01:57,531 --> 00:01:58,532
No, because they appeared to be
Puncture wounds.
64
00:01:59,241 --> 00:01:59,991
I wasn't sure what had caused
Them.
65
00:02:00,408 --> 00:02:00,992
I'm not a pathologist.
66
00:02:01,409 --> 00:02:02,702
You're not a pathologist?
67
00:02:03,161 --> 00:02:03,537
Do you have medical training?
68
00:02:03,537 --> 00:02:04,287
Do you have medical training?
69
00:02:04,496 --> 00:02:05,830
No.
70
00:02:06,581 --> 00:02:08,959
How do you become coroner with
No medical training?
71
00:02:09,543 --> 00:02:11,086
Is that, uh, is that not an
Anomaly
72
00:02:11,461 --> 00:02:12,546
In this day and age?
73
00:02:13,088 --> 00:02:13,838
Not in this province it's not,
No.
74
00:02:14,422 --> 00:02:15,549
But most other provinces and
States
75
00:02:15,549 --> 00:02:16,508
But most other provinces and
States
76
00:02:17,092 --> 00:02:17,801
Have coroners and medical
Examiners
77
00:02:18,176 --> 00:02:19,219
With medical degrees.
78
00:02:19,886 --> 00:02:21,012
Well, yeah. I'm an anomaly, an
Anachronism,
79
00:02:21,388 --> 00:02:21,555
But I'm not alone.
80
00:02:21,555 --> 00:02:22,556
But I'm not alone.
81
00:02:23,265 --> 00:02:24,099
There's about a 50-50 split in
Terms of provinces
82
00:02:24,432 --> 00:02:25,976
In this country.
83
00:02:26,643 --> 00:02:27,561
If you have no medical training
Whatsoever,
84
00:02:27,561 --> 00:02:28,311
If you have no medical training
Whatsoever,
85
00:02:28,728 --> 00:02:30,021
What were you previously
86
00:02:30,814 --> 00:02:32,566
That qualifies you to make such
Difficult determinations
87
00:02:33,149 --> 00:02:33,567
As to manner and cause of death?
88
00:02:33,567 --> 00:02:35,610
As to manner and cause of death?
89
00:02:35,986 --> 00:02:37,320
I rely on experience,
90
00:02:37,779 --> 00:02:39,531
And, uh, when I'm not sure,
91
00:02:40,115 --> 00:02:41,700
I rely on the advice of
Professionals
92
00:02:42,075 --> 00:02:43,201
Such as pathologists.
93
00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:44,995
Okay.
94
00:02:45,620 --> 00:02:47,581
Uh, that's all I have for this
Witness.
95
00:02:48,331 --> 00:02:49,541
I would like to recall him later
Today.
96
00:02:50,208 --> 00:02:51,084
No, could you ask your questions
Now, please?
97
00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:52,961
If you have things to ask me,
Ask me now.
98
00:02:53,545 --> 00:02:55,255
Just spare me the trip back down
Here.
99
00:02:55,839 --> 00:02:57,465
Does the crown have any
Objections
100
00:02:58,049 --> 00:02:58,633
To the counsel recalling this
Witness
101
00:02:58,967 --> 00:03:00,385
At a later time?
102
00:03:00,927 --> 00:03:02,012
I have no objections, your
Honor.
103
00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:03,346
Mr. Da vinci is simply pointing
Out
104
00:03:03,805 --> 00:03:04,472
That he has a busy schedule.
105
00:03:04,681 --> 00:03:06,057
Oh.
106
00:03:21,031 --> 00:03:21,615
Oh, not my day.
107
00:03:21,615 --> 00:03:22,073
Oh, not my day.
108
00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:24,618
What's happening here?
109
00:03:25,201 --> 00:03:26,494
I think straight-ahead robbery
Here.
110
00:03:27,037 --> 00:03:27,621
- you do? - I'm not exactly
Sure,
111
00:03:27,621 --> 00:03:28,622
- you do? - I'm not exactly
Sure,
112
00:03:29,205 --> 00:03:30,498
So I thought I'd wait for you.
113
00:03:31,082 --> 00:03:32,500
Good call. Okay now, who lives
Here?
114
00:03:33,209 --> 00:03:33,627
- what's the victim's name? -
Abigail jefferson.
115
00:03:33,627 --> 00:03:34,711
- what's the victim's name? -
Abigail jefferson.
116
00:03:35,128 --> 00:03:36,046
Did abigail live alone?
117
00:03:36,421 --> 00:03:37,505
No, with her husband.
118
00:03:37,922 --> 00:03:38,757
Is that who found her?
119
00:03:39,257 --> 00:03:39,633
Yeah, and the son and daughter.
120
00:03:39,633 --> 00:03:40,258
Yeah, and the son and daughter.
121
00:03:40,675 --> 00:03:41,635
They found her together.
122
00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:42,969
Where are they now?
123
00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:44,596
Well, that's the son over there.
124
00:03:45,263 --> 00:03:45,639
The father and daughter are over
At her place.
125
00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:46,139
The father and daughter are over
At her place.
126
00:03:46,514 --> 00:03:47,641
He was pretty upset,
127
00:03:48,308 --> 00:03:49,559
So I guess she took him over
There.
128
00:03:49,768 --> 00:03:50,852
Okay.
129
00:03:51,353 --> 00:03:51,645
Who was here when you got here?
130
00:03:51,645 --> 00:03:52,187
Who was here when you got here?
131
00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:53,480
Just the son.
132
00:03:53,813 --> 00:03:54,648
He called 911.
133
00:03:55,106 --> 00:03:55,815
And that was when?
134
00:03:56,316 --> 00:03:57,400
Around... About a half hour ago.
135
00:03:57,609 --> 00:03:57,651
Okay.
136
00:03:57,651 --> 00:03:59,653
Okay.
137
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:01,946
You'll see there's a gun on the
Floor
138
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,657
By the bed here.
139
00:04:03,657 --> 00:04:05,408
By the bed here.
140
00:04:08,870 --> 00:04:09,663
Oh...
141
00:04:09,663 --> 00:04:10,580
Oh...
142
00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:13,667
So this is abigail, is it?
143
00:04:14,334 --> 00:04:15,669
No signs of a struggle in here.
144
00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:16,670
No signs of a struggle in here.
145
00:04:17,420 --> 00:04:20,507
I'm thinking this looks like a
Close-contact wound.
146
00:04:20,924 --> 00:04:21,675
Yeah, you can see the--
147
00:04:21,675 --> 00:04:21,716
Yeah, you can see the--
148
00:04:22,217 --> 00:04:24,135
Yeah, that's what it looks like.
149
00:04:24,761 --> 00:04:26,137
Doesn't seem like the kind to
Have a gun.
150
00:04:26,805 --> 00:04:27,681
Did the son say that the parents
Had a gun?
151
00:04:27,681 --> 00:04:28,139
Did the son say that the parents
Had a gun?
152
00:04:28,431 --> 00:04:29,683
He said yeah.
153
00:04:30,433 --> 00:04:32,644
He knew his dad had an old army
Service .45.
154
00:04:33,103 --> 00:04:33,687
He was very sure this was it.
155
00:04:33,687 --> 00:04:33,770
He was very sure this was it.
156
00:04:34,187 --> 00:04:35,021
What's that over there?
157
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:36,690
Painkillers, prescription.
158
00:04:36,981 --> 00:04:37,941
Excuse me.
159
00:04:38,441 --> 00:04:39,442
Son said the mom was recovering
160
00:04:39,901 --> 00:04:41,361
From a bout with skin cancer.
161
00:04:42,028 --> 00:04:43,822
Oh yeah? Well, I think to be
Cautious, then,
162
00:04:44,447 --> 00:04:45,699
We'll do a gun residue test on
Her hands,
163
00:04:45,699 --> 00:04:47,158
We'll do a gun residue test on
Her hands,
164
00:04:47,826 --> 00:04:49,703
And then if her prints are on
That weapon,
165
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,454
Then suicide, right?
166
00:04:52,288 --> 00:04:54,457
Yeah, but take a look at this
Over here in the other room.
167
00:04:54,666 --> 00:04:57,711
What?
168
00:04:57,711 --> 00:04:58,712
What?
169
00:04:59,462 --> 00:05:01,673
The dresser's been turned upside
Down.
170
00:05:02,006 --> 00:05:02,716
So you're saying
171
00:05:03,341 --> 00:05:03,717
This could be a robbery to you?
172
00:05:03,717 --> 00:05:05,552
This could be a robbery to you?
173
00:05:06,219 --> 00:05:07,721
That's the victim's gun in
There, isn't it?
174
00:05:08,346 --> 00:05:09,264
So what, uh, she's defending
Herself,
175
00:05:09,848 --> 00:05:10,849
The attacker takes the gun from
Her
176
00:05:11,266 --> 00:05:12,142
Or something like that?
177
00:05:12,475 --> 00:05:13,560
Yeah. I suppose.
178
00:05:13,935 --> 00:05:14,769
What about the son?
179
00:05:15,270 --> 00:05:15,729
Did he say anything was missing?
180
00:05:15,729 --> 00:05:16,312
Did he say anything was missing?
181
00:05:16,771 --> 00:05:17,731
No. He says he didn't know
182
00:05:18,398 --> 00:05:19,190
If his mom kept anything
Valuable
183
00:05:19,607 --> 00:05:20,859
In the dresser or not.
184
00:05:21,568 --> 00:05:21,735
But there is the kitchen door
You should look at.
185
00:05:21,735 --> 00:05:22,902
But there is the kitchen door
You should look at.
186
00:05:23,111 --> 00:05:23,903
Okay.
187
00:05:24,362 --> 00:05:25,488
Do you know about cameras?
188
00:05:27,991 --> 00:05:29,784
Stacey miller had a lot of
Wounds on her neck
189
00:05:30,326 --> 00:05:31,870
That I thought were from a
Knife.
190
00:05:32,454 --> 00:05:33,705
And were these wounds later
Confirmed
191
00:05:34,164 --> 00:05:34,914
By the pathologist at autopsy
192
00:05:35,373 --> 00:05:37,083
- to be stab wounds? - yes.
193
00:05:37,792 --> 00:05:39,419
Okay. During the course of your
Investigation,
194
00:05:39,753 --> 00:05:40,754
Was there a time
195
00:05:41,546 --> 00:05:42,964
When you searched stacey
Miller's apartment?
196
00:05:43,506 --> 00:05:44,758
Yep. We took a look around
There.
197
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:45,759
Can you tell us what you found?
198
00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:46,760
Can you tell us what you found?
199
00:05:47,635 --> 00:05:51,765
Yes. We found numerous letters
From the accused, joel hardy.
200
00:05:51,765 --> 00:05:52,599
Yes. We found numerous letters
From the accused, joel hardy.
201
00:05:53,266 --> 00:05:55,769
Can you state the nature of
These letters?
202
00:05:56,102 --> 00:05:57,771
Yes. At first,
203
00:05:57,771 --> 00:05:57,979
Yes. At first,
204
00:05:58,772 --> 00:06:01,149
The accused was begging her to
Get back together with him,
205
00:06:01,816 --> 00:06:03,777
But then the letters got pretty
Threatening.
206
00:06:03,777 --> 00:06:04,235
But then the letters got pretty
Threatening.
207
00:06:04,694 --> 00:06:05,779
How were they threatening?
208
00:06:06,362 --> 00:06:07,739
Well, quite a few times in
There,
209
00:06:08,490 --> 00:06:09,574
The accused said he'd kill her
Before he'd let her go.
210
00:06:10,366 --> 00:06:12,494
After reading these letters, did
You question the accused?
211
00:06:12,952 --> 00:06:15,205
Yeah, and he confirmed to us
212
00:06:15,872 --> 00:06:17,040
That he was upset about stacey
Leaving him,
213
00:06:17,582 --> 00:06:18,875
Which was why he wrote the
Letters.
214
00:06:19,584 --> 00:06:21,795
And did the accused happen to
Say where he was
215
00:06:21,795 --> 00:06:21,920
And did the accused happen to
Say where he was
216
00:06:22,545 --> 00:06:23,505
The day that stacey miller went
Missing?
217
00:06:23,922 --> 00:06:24,798
He said he was at home,
218
00:06:25,507 --> 00:06:26,883
But we couldn't corroborate
That.
219
00:06:36,559 --> 00:06:37,811
Oh yeah, someone's been at the
Door here.
220
00:06:38,561 --> 00:06:39,687
You can see the jimmy marks
Right on there.
221
00:06:40,188 --> 00:06:43,525
Yeah, and the chain was popped.
222
00:06:43,983 --> 00:06:44,818
Yarded right out, isn't it?
223
00:06:45,401 --> 00:06:45,819
What does the son say?
224
00:06:45,819 --> 00:06:46,611
What does the son say?
225
00:06:47,362 --> 00:06:48,696
He said it wasn't like that when
They left the house,
226
00:06:49,364 --> 00:06:49,823
And they always go out the
Kitchen door here.
227
00:06:50,448 --> 00:06:50,990
It's the closest to the
Driveway.
228
00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:51,825
Okay.
229
00:06:51,825 --> 00:06:53,660
Okay.
230
00:06:54,244 --> 00:06:56,079
I'm going to talk to him right
Now,
231
00:06:56,538 --> 00:06:57,831
And you get to call homicide.
232
00:06:57,831 --> 00:07:00,416
And you get to call homicide.
233
00:07:00,917 --> 00:07:02,085
We were told by the pathologist
234
00:07:02,752 --> 00:07:03,837
That stacey miller's wounds were
Consistent
235
00:07:04,462 --> 00:07:05,505
With a small, single-edged
Knife.
236
00:07:06,130 --> 00:07:07,590
And did you then search mr.
Hardy's house
237
00:07:08,007 --> 00:07:08,842
For a possible weapon?
238
00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:09,843
Yes.
239
00:07:09,843 --> 00:07:10,301
Yes.
240
00:07:10,969 --> 00:07:11,928
Did you find a weapon that
Matched the wounds?
241
00:07:12,428 --> 00:07:13,638
Nothing that matched the wounds.
242
00:07:14,347 --> 00:07:15,849
During your first interview with
Mr. Hardy here,
243
00:07:15,849 --> 00:07:17,851
During your first interview with
Mr. Hardy here,
244
00:07:18,810 --> 00:07:20,562
Do you recall him telling you
That he had a new girlfriend,
245
00:07:21,187 --> 00:07:21,855
And that he was getting on with
His life?
246
00:07:21,855 --> 00:07:22,939
And that he was getting on with
His life?
247
00:07:23,314 --> 00:07:24,691
He said that. Yes.
248
00:07:25,316 --> 00:07:26,860
Did his new girlfriend later
Confirm that?
249
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:27,861
She said that. Yeah.
250
00:07:27,861 --> 00:07:29,279
She said that. Yeah.
251
00:07:30,029 --> 00:07:31,447
Did, uh, stacey miller currently
Have a new boyfriend
252
00:07:31,906 --> 00:07:32,907
By the name of jack perrault?
253
00:07:33,116 --> 00:07:33,867
Yes.
254
00:07:33,867 --> 00:07:34,701
Yes.
255
00:07:35,159 --> 00:07:36,160
And did mr. Perrault tell you
256
00:07:36,786 --> 00:07:37,871
That the last time he saw stacey
Miller
257
00:07:38,621 --> 00:07:39,873
Was the night before she
Disappeared,
258
00:07:39,873 --> 00:07:40,623
Was the night before she
Disappeared,
259
00:07:41,207 --> 00:07:42,375
That she'd spent the night with
Him?
260
00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:43,877
Yes, he said that.
261
00:07:44,085 --> 00:07:45,169
Okay.
262
00:07:45,795 --> 00:07:45,879
Does mr. Perrault have a
Criminal record?
263
00:07:45,879 --> 00:07:46,588
Does mr. Perrault have a
Criminal record?
264
00:07:46,796 --> 00:07:49,132
Yes.
265
00:07:49,799 --> 00:07:50,884
He'd done six years for
Importing cocaine.
266
00:07:51,384 --> 00:07:51,885
Six years for importing cocaine?
267
00:07:51,885 --> 00:07:52,468
Six years for importing cocaine?
268
00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,345
Detective,
269
00:07:55,054 --> 00:07:56,097
Were there ever any suspects
Other than mr. Hardy
270
00:07:56,514 --> 00:07:57,891
Considered in this case?
271
00:07:57,891 --> 00:07:58,224
Considered in this case?
272
00:07:58,892 --> 00:08:00,268
The evidence led us directly to
Mr. Hardy.
273
00:08:00,977 --> 00:08:02,186
You mean the letters he wrote to
Stacey miller?
274
00:08:02,812 --> 00:08:03,897
That was our first indication it
Was him.
275
00:08:03,897 --> 00:08:04,314
That was our first indication it
Was him.
276
00:08:05,106 --> 00:08:06,733
Then we found out stacey miller
Had a restraining order
277
00:08:07,108 --> 00:08:08,902
Against the accused.
278
00:08:09,694 --> 00:08:09,903
Yes, and that restraining order
Was withdrawn by her.
279
00:08:09,903 --> 00:08:11,362
Yes, and that restraining order
Was withdrawn by her.
280
00:08:11,863 --> 00:08:14,449
- still you pursued mr. Hardy?
281
00:08:15,033 --> 00:08:15,909
We believed he was the
Perpetrator,
282
00:08:15,909 --> 00:08:16,618
We believed he was the
Perpetrator,
283
00:08:17,076 --> 00:08:19,037
- and still do. - thank you.
284
00:08:19,495 --> 00:08:21,039
Okay, when you came by here,
285
00:08:21,706 --> 00:08:21,915
Did you go upstairs to see your
Mom, or...
286
00:08:21,915 --> 00:08:22,999
Did you go upstairs to see your
Mom, or...
287
00:08:23,708 --> 00:08:25,835
She was upstairs in bed, and I
Looked in on her,
288
00:08:26,210 --> 00:08:27,253
But she was sleeping.
289
00:08:27,795 --> 00:08:27,921
Okay, and how long were you
Gone?
290
00:08:27,921 --> 00:08:29,839
Okay, and how long were you
Gone?
291
00:08:30,173 --> 00:08:30,965
Hour and a half.
292
00:08:31,466 --> 00:08:32,675
We usually buy for the the week,
293
00:08:33,259 --> 00:08:33,927
And dad had some other errands
To run.
294
00:08:33,927 --> 00:08:34,093
And dad had some other errands
To run.
295
00:08:34,719 --> 00:08:38,431
Okay, so you came back here
Around 10:00,
296
00:08:38,848 --> 00:08:39,933
And then what happened?
297
00:08:39,933 --> 00:08:40,391
And then what happened?
298
00:08:40,725 --> 00:08:42,727
Uh, we came in,
299
00:08:43,311 --> 00:08:45,271
And, uh, we were unloading
Groceries,
300
00:08:46,064 --> 00:08:48,816
And then dad goes upstairs to
Tell mom that we're home,
301
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,276
And I can hear him moaning real
Loud,
302
00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:51,945
So I go up there,
303
00:08:52,695 --> 00:08:54,948
And that's when we found mom,
Just shot like that.
304
00:08:55,448 --> 00:08:57,951
And then you called 911.
305
00:08:58,368 --> 00:09:00,578
Not right away, no.
306
00:09:01,329 --> 00:09:03,957
Any particular reason why you
Didn't call right away?
307
00:09:04,540 --> 00:09:07,961
I didn't know what to do,
308
00:09:08,878 --> 00:09:09,963
And, uh, dad looked like he was
Having a heart attack.
309
00:09:09,963 --> 00:09:11,172
And, uh, dad looked like he was
Having a heart attack.
310
00:09:11,506 --> 00:09:12,966
Couldn't breathe,
311
00:09:13,716 --> 00:09:15,259
And, uh, so we just settled him
Down a little,
312
00:09:15,802 --> 00:09:15,969
And tried to calm ourselves
Down,
313
00:09:15,969 --> 00:09:17,220
And tried to calm ourselves
Down,
314
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,222
And then we made the call.
315
00:09:19,847 --> 00:09:20,807
Right from... Right from the
House here?
316
00:09:21,182 --> 00:09:21,975
No, from my sister's.
317
00:09:21,975 --> 00:09:24,435
No, from my sister's.
318
00:09:25,186 --> 00:09:26,229
You and your sister took him to
Your sister's house,
319
00:09:26,688 --> 00:09:27,981
And then you made the call?
320
00:09:28,648 --> 00:09:32,652
We had to get him away from what
Happened,
321
00:09:33,486 --> 00:09:33,987
And he had a hold of mom's hand,
And he wouldn't let go of it.
322
00:09:33,987 --> 00:09:37,657
And he had a hold of mom's hand,
And he wouldn't let go of it.
323
00:09:38,032 --> 00:09:39,283
What about your mom?
324
00:09:39,742 --> 00:09:39,993
This is kind of a hard question,
325
00:09:39,993 --> 00:09:41,244
This is kind of a hard question,
326
00:09:41,869 --> 00:09:45,081
But was there any discussions
Like, uh...
327
00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:45,999
What I'm trying to ask you is
328
00:09:45,999 --> 00:09:47,083
What I'm trying to ask you is
329
00:09:47,667 --> 00:09:49,127
Did you feel that she was
Despondent?
330
00:09:49,919 --> 00:09:52,005
Did she discuss kind of...
Committing suicide with you?
331
00:09:52,005 --> 00:09:53,006
Did she discuss kind of...
Committing suicide with you?
332
00:09:53,548 --> 00:09:56,009
No. Not to my knowledge.
333
00:09:56,426 --> 00:09:58,011
Okay. All right.
334
00:09:58,011 --> 00:09:59,595
Okay. All right.
335
00:09:59,971 --> 00:10:01,014
Well, I'm finished,
336
00:10:01,597 --> 00:10:03,182
As far as my questions are
Concerned.
337
00:10:03,599 --> 00:10:04,017
I just wanted to tell you
338
00:10:04,017 --> 00:10:04,726
I just wanted to tell you
339
00:10:05,268 --> 00:10:07,020
How very sorry I am for your
Loss.
340
00:10:07,311 --> 00:10:08,563
Thank you.
341
00:10:09,022 --> 00:10:10,023
I'll get out of your way now.
342
00:10:10,023 --> 00:10:10,356
I'll get out of your way now.
343
00:10:11,107 --> 00:10:13,526
These fellows here will be gone
Before you know it.
344
00:10:13,818 --> 00:10:16,029
Thank you.
345
00:10:16,029 --> 00:10:16,362
Thank you.
346
00:10:21,492 --> 00:10:22,035
I autopsied the body of stacey
Miller
347
00:10:22,035 --> 00:10:23,619
I autopsied the body of stacey
Miller
348
00:10:24,037 --> 00:10:25,288
On september 17th, 2000,
349
00:10:25,747 --> 00:10:27,331
At the vancouver city morgue.
350
00:10:27,749 --> 00:10:28,041
And what did you find?
351
00:10:28,041 --> 00:10:28,916
And what did you find?
352
00:10:29,375 --> 00:10:30,752
I found her to have sustained
353
00:10:31,461 --> 00:10:33,171
Multiple stab wounds to her neck
And shoulders.
354
00:10:33,546 --> 00:10:34,047
Okay, can you tell us
355
00:10:34,047 --> 00:10:34,630
Okay, can you tell us
356
00:10:35,214 --> 00:10:36,382
How many wounds were there
Altogether?
357
00:10:36,799 --> 00:10:38,009
There were 12 stab wounds
358
00:10:38,593 --> 00:10:39,385
On the back of her neck and
Shoulders
359
00:10:39,844 --> 00:10:40,053
And the front of her neck.
360
00:10:40,053 --> 00:10:41,012
And the front of her neck.
361
00:10:41,637 --> 00:10:42,221
And were those wounds the cause
Of death?
362
00:10:42,430 --> 00:10:43,890
No.
363
00:10:44,557 --> 00:10:45,975
No, the immediate cause of death
Was drowning.
364
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,061
So sometime after she'd been
Stabbed,
365
00:10:48,394 --> 00:10:50,063
She either fell
366
00:10:50,605 --> 00:10:51,064
Or was placed into the river?
367
00:10:51,355 --> 00:10:52,065
Objection.
368
00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:52,482
Objection.
369
00:10:53,107 --> 00:10:54,358
Crown is assuming facts not in
Evidence.
370
00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:55,568
Sustained.
371
00:10:55,985 --> 00:10:57,445
Was there any evidence
372
00:10:58,071 --> 00:11:00,073
That stacey miller had recently
Had sex?
373
00:11:00,323 --> 00:11:01,616
Yes.
374
00:11:02,158 --> 00:11:03,034
There was inflammation and
Tearing
375
00:11:03,451 --> 00:11:04,077
To the vaginal tissue.
376
00:11:04,077 --> 00:11:04,702
To the vaginal tissue.
377
00:11:05,161 --> 00:11:06,329
And what would that suggest?
378
00:11:06,913 --> 00:11:07,914
Suggests that the sex was
Aggressive.
379
00:11:08,164 --> 00:11:09,457
Violent?
380
00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:10,083
Yes, yes, it could have been
Violent.
381
00:11:10,083 --> 00:11:11,084
Yes, yes, it could have been
Violent.
382
00:11:11,501 --> 00:11:14,003
In your expert opinion,
383
00:11:14,587 --> 00:11:16,089
Was stacey miller sexually
Assaulted?
384
00:11:16,589 --> 00:11:17,715
In my opinion,
385
00:11:18,466 --> 00:11:21,385
The tearing was consistent with
Sexual assault, yes.
386
00:11:29,143 --> 00:11:29,185
Want to give me a hand here,
Dominic?
387
00:11:29,310 --> 00:11:32,063
Okay.
388
00:11:32,355 --> 00:11:33,106
All right.
389
00:11:33,606 --> 00:11:34,107
There's the, uh, bullet
390
00:11:34,107 --> 00:11:35,233
There's the, uh, bullet
391
00:11:35,691 --> 00:11:36,943
Right in the mattress there.
392
00:11:37,443 --> 00:11:39,529
- oh yeah. - a shot of that...
393
00:11:39,946 --> 00:11:40,113
What's the weapon there?
394
00:11:40,113 --> 00:11:41,364
What's the weapon there?
395
00:11:41,864 --> 00:11:43,116
Oh, that's an old-timer, a .45.
396
00:11:43,616 --> 00:11:44,951
Okay, I've got my photos of her.
397
00:11:45,701 --> 00:11:46,119
We'll bag her hands, see if she
Fired her herself.
398
00:11:46,119 --> 00:11:49,163
We'll bag her hands, see if she
Fired her herself.
399
00:11:49,997 --> 00:11:51,124
Talked to the son downstairs. He
Can't find anything missing.
400
00:11:51,582 --> 00:11:52,125
I told him to call his dad,
401
00:11:52,125 --> 00:11:53,000
I told him to call his dad,
402
00:11:53,709 --> 00:11:54,377
See if he might know of anything
Missing up here.
403
00:11:54,961 --> 00:11:55,294
He says there should be some
Jewelry
404
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:57,130
In a dresser drawer.
405
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:58,131
Well, he can come up here again,
Have another look.
406
00:11:58,131 --> 00:12:00,216
Well, he can come up here again,
Have another look.
407
00:12:00,633 --> 00:12:01,843
What about the daughter?
408
00:12:02,426 --> 00:12:03,970
Is she bringing the father over
Here?
409
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:05,304
Yeah. They're on their way over.
410
00:12:05,805 --> 00:12:06,722
Did you see that back door, leo?
411
00:12:06,931 --> 00:12:08,141
Yeah.
412
00:12:08,933 --> 00:12:10,143
So, uh, you think maybe this is
A robbery, then?
413
00:12:10,143 --> 00:12:10,768
So, uh, you think maybe this is
A robbery, then?
414
00:12:11,227 --> 00:12:12,562
I don't know. I suppose so.
415
00:12:13,354 --> 00:12:15,189
Guy's making a noise downstairs,
The woman here hears him,
416
00:12:15,773 --> 00:12:16,149
And she goes and gets the family
Gun
417
00:12:16,149 --> 00:12:16,566
And she goes and gets the family
Gun
418
00:12:16,899 --> 00:12:17,775
From wherever.
419
00:12:18,359 --> 00:12:19,193
Well, maybe that thief already
Knows
420
00:12:19,777 --> 00:12:21,112
There's something valuable up
Here.
421
00:12:21,821 --> 00:12:22,155
Maybe he knows the family, knows
The house, right,
422
00:12:22,530 --> 00:12:23,322
So he comes upstairs.
423
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:25,283
Like you say, she's already got
The weapon.
424
00:12:26,033 --> 00:12:27,201
He comes in, he's surprised to
See her with the gun,
425
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:28,161
Jumps on her and grabs it, turns
It on her, maybe?
426
00:12:28,161 --> 00:12:28,870
Jumps on her and grabs it, turns
It on her, maybe?
427
00:12:29,162 --> 00:12:30,163
It's possible
428
00:12:30,913 --> 00:12:31,956
With a close-contact wound like
That.
429
00:12:32,456 --> 00:12:33,875
Or maybe it's all a coincidence.
430
00:12:34,208 --> 00:12:35,042
A coincidence?
431
00:12:35,543 --> 00:12:36,169
How do you figure a coincidence?
432
00:12:36,711 --> 00:12:38,171
Well, two separate acts.
433
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:40,131
The woman's thinking suicide,
434
00:12:40,882 --> 00:12:43,092
So she waits until her family's
All gone shopping,
435
00:12:43,467 --> 00:12:45,178
And she shoots herself.
436
00:12:46,137 --> 00:12:46,179
A guy decides today's the day
He's going to rob the place,
437
00:12:46,179 --> 00:12:48,431
A guy decides today's the day
He's going to rob the place,
438
00:12:49,182 --> 00:12:50,641
And he sees the family go off on
The routine shopping,
439
00:12:51,184 --> 00:12:52,185
Comes in, sees she's already
Dead,
440
00:12:52,185 --> 00:12:52,727
Comes in, sees she's already
Dead,
441
00:12:53,060 --> 00:12:54,187
Helps himself,
442
00:12:54,854 --> 00:12:56,480
Steals what he wants, and he's
Gone.
443
00:12:56,981 --> 00:12:58,191
Did the neighbors hear anything?
444
00:12:58,733 --> 00:12:59,775
They're out canvassing.
445
00:13:00,276 --> 00:13:01,277
They haven't found anything yet.
446
00:13:01,777 --> 00:13:02,862
The family's all downstairs now.
447
00:13:03,446 --> 00:13:04,197
We're going to want to interview
Them
448
00:13:04,572 --> 00:13:05,865
Separately.
449
00:13:06,449 --> 00:13:07,325
I'll head downstairs with these
Guys.
450
00:13:07,617 --> 00:13:09,285
You testified
451
00:13:09,952 --> 00:13:10,203
That there were numerous cuts
And abrasions
452
00:13:10,203 --> 00:13:11,495
That there were numerous cuts
And abrasions
453
00:13:11,913 --> 00:13:13,915
On stacey miller's body.
454
00:13:14,248 --> 00:13:15,166
That's correct.
455
00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:16,209
Any idea
456
00:13:16,834 --> 00:13:18,169
Where the cuts and abrasions
Came from?
457
00:13:18,711 --> 00:13:19,754
I wouldn't want to speculate on
That.
458
00:13:19,962 --> 00:13:21,214
Okay.
459
00:13:21,964 --> 00:13:22,215
Can you describe the deeper
Wounds for us?
460
00:13:22,215 --> 00:13:22,798
Can you describe the deeper
Wounds for us?
461
00:13:23,049 --> 00:13:24,884
Uh, yes.
462
00:13:25,593 --> 00:13:28,221
Uh, they were ranging in width
From one centimeter
463
00:13:28,221 --> 00:13:29,180
Uh, they were ranging in width
From one centimeter
464
00:13:29,847 --> 00:13:32,475
To a few that were two and a
Half centimeters,
465
00:13:33,142 --> 00:13:34,227
And they were between 2.1
Centimeters deep
466
00:13:34,227 --> 00:13:34,936
And they were between 2.1
Centimeters deep
467
00:13:35,645 --> 00:13:37,396
And 3.1 centimeters deep on the
Back of her neck.
468
00:13:38,105 --> 00:13:40,191
What kind of weapon would have
Made such wounds?
469
00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:43,194
It would have to have been a
Thin, narrow blade.
470
00:13:43,819 --> 00:13:44,695
Are there any other objects or
Implements
471
00:13:45,029 --> 00:13:46,072
Besides a knife
472
00:13:46,614 --> 00:13:47,615
That might have made these
Wounds?
473
00:13:48,199 --> 00:13:49,325
Yes. Yes, I'm sure that's
Possible.
474
00:13:49,909 --> 00:13:52,245
So these might not be knife
Wounds.
475
00:13:52,245 --> 00:13:53,371
So these might not be knife
Wounds.
476
00:13:54,038 --> 00:13:55,039
Well, they are consistent with a
Knife blade,
477
00:13:55,289 --> 00:13:56,290
But yes,
478
00:13:56,999 --> 00:13:58,251
The, uh, stab wounds might not
Have been inflicted
479
00:13:58,251 --> 00:13:58,584
The, uh, stab wounds might not
Have been inflicted
480
00:13:58,876 --> 00:13:59,919
By a knife.
481
00:14:00,253 --> 00:14:01,254
You've testified
482
00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:03,256
That stacey miller had had sex
483
00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:04,257
- sometime before she died. -
Yes.
484
00:14:04,257 --> 00:14:05,341
- sometime before she died. -
Yes.
485
00:14:05,841 --> 00:14:06,884
Was there any semen recovered?
486
00:14:07,093 --> 00:14:07,885
No.
487
00:14:08,344 --> 00:14:09,470
What would account for that?
488
00:14:10,137 --> 00:14:10,263
She had been in the river, so
It's possible
489
00:14:10,263 --> 00:14:11,264
She had been in the river, so
It's possible
490
00:14:12,098 --> 00:14:13,557
Evidence of semen could have
Been washed away,
491
00:14:14,141 --> 00:14:15,893
Or, uh, the assailant wore a
Condom.
492
00:14:16,602 --> 00:14:19,355
So when this sex occurred is
Difficult to determine.
493
00:14:19,939 --> 00:14:21,357
Well, because of the time in the
Water
494
00:14:21,691 --> 00:14:22,275
And so on, yes,
495
00:14:22,275 --> 00:14:22,984
And so on, yes,
496
00:14:23,651 --> 00:14:25,319
But the vaginal tearing hadn't
Healed at all,
497
00:14:25,736 --> 00:14:26,654
So it probably occurred
498
00:14:27,113 --> 00:14:28,281
Within 24 hours of her death.
499
00:14:28,281 --> 00:14:28,489
Within 24 hours of her death.
500
00:14:29,198 --> 00:14:30,658
Probably, but there's no way to
Determine that.
501
00:14:31,117 --> 00:14:33,286
No precise method. Correct.
502
00:14:33,744 --> 00:14:34,287
Okay, now, isn't it true
503
00:14:34,287 --> 00:14:34,870
Okay, now, isn't it true
504
00:14:35,621 --> 00:14:36,289
That the kind of vaginal tearing
That you described
505
00:14:36,831 --> 00:14:37,748
Could have been caused
506
00:14:38,332 --> 00:14:40,293
By rough, aggressive, consensual
Sex?
507
00:14:41,002 --> 00:14:42,920
I'm not an expert in rough
Consensual sex.
508
00:14:43,421 --> 00:14:44,839
I'm an expert in sexual assault,
509
00:14:45,589 --> 00:14:46,299
And the vaginal tearing was, in
My expert opinion,
510
00:14:46,299 --> 00:14:46,924
And the vaginal tearing was, in
My expert opinion,
511
00:14:47,341 --> 00:14:48,551
Consistent with assault.
512
00:14:49,302 --> 00:14:50,344
Right. You're not an expert in
Rough consensual sex.
513
00:14:50,636 --> 00:14:51,387
Thank you.
514
00:14:56,434 --> 00:14:58,311
From the time you got home until
The time you called 911,
515
00:14:58,311 --> 00:14:59,603
From the time you got home until
The time you called 911,
516
00:15:00,104 --> 00:15:01,355
That was about 40, 45 minutes.
517
00:15:01,689 --> 00:15:02,648
Is that right?
518
00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:04,275
I didn't realize it was that
Long.
519
00:15:04,734 --> 00:15:06,360
Oh yeah. It was that long.
520
00:15:06,819 --> 00:15:08,195
We were dealing with my father.
521
00:15:08,571 --> 00:15:09,780
We were all in shock.
522
00:15:10,531 --> 00:15:11,657
So you drove your dad over to
Your sister's house,
523
00:15:12,116 --> 00:15:13,200
And then you came back here?
524
00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:15,202
Yeah, to wait for the police.
525
00:15:15,703 --> 00:15:16,329
What do you think happened here?
526
00:15:16,329 --> 00:15:16,996
What do you think happened here?
527
00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:18,414
Well, when I came
528
00:15:19,081 --> 00:15:20,416
And saw the back door broken
Open like it is,
529
00:15:20,875 --> 00:15:22,335
I thought it was a robbery.
530
00:15:22,335 --> 00:15:22,668
I thought it was a robbery.
531
00:15:23,169 --> 00:15:25,004
Do you own a gun, mr. Jefferson?
532
00:15:25,212 --> 00:15:26,589
Yes.
533
00:15:27,214 --> 00:15:28,341
And the gun we found on the
Floor there,
534
00:15:28,341 --> 00:15:28,424
And the gun we found on the
Floor there,
535
00:15:28,841 --> 00:15:30,051
Would that be your gun?
536
00:15:30,259 --> 00:15:31,344
Yes.
537
00:15:31,802 --> 00:15:32,595
Yeah, I kept that
538
00:15:33,054 --> 00:15:34,305
After I got out of the army.
539
00:15:34,889 --> 00:15:37,099
Okay, uh, where do you keep that
Gun?
540
00:15:37,433 --> 00:15:40,353
In the dresser.
541
00:15:41,228 --> 00:15:42,897
The one in the room there, or
The one in that smaller room?
542
00:15:43,314 --> 00:15:46,192
In the smaller room. Yes.
543
00:15:46,734 --> 00:15:48,361
Was there anything else in
There?
544
00:15:48,736 --> 00:15:51,697
My wife's jewelry.
545
00:15:52,073 --> 00:15:52,365
And that's missing?
546
00:15:52,365 --> 00:15:53,366
And that's missing?
547
00:15:53,741 --> 00:15:56,327
Yes. Yes.
548
00:15:56,994 --> 00:15:58,371
Um, my son says... Well, it's
Not there now.
549
00:15:58,371 --> 00:15:58,996
Um, my son says... Well, it's
Not there now.
550
00:15:59,330 --> 00:16:00,748
Was it insured?
551
00:16:00,956 --> 00:16:02,375
Yes.
552
00:16:02,875 --> 00:16:04,377
What do you figure it's worth?
553
00:16:04,377 --> 00:16:07,380
What do you figure it's worth?
554
00:16:07,963 --> 00:16:10,383
I think about $20,000.
555
00:16:10,758 --> 00:16:12,468
20? Okay.
556
00:16:12,968 --> 00:16:14,345
Do you know if your mom and dad
557
00:16:14,929 --> 00:16:15,763
Had anybody working for them
Recently,
558
00:16:16,347 --> 00:16:16,389
Like a handyman making some
Repairs,
559
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:17,139
Like a handyman making some
Repairs,
560
00:16:17,848 --> 00:16:18,974
Somebody cleaning in the house
Or out in the yard,
561
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:20,393
Anything like that?
562
00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:22,395
My sister cleans for mom and dad
On saturdays,
563
00:16:22,395 --> 00:16:22,478
My sister cleans for mom and dad
On saturdays,
564
00:16:23,104 --> 00:16:25,439
But as far as a handyman, dad
Would know.
565
00:16:26,107 --> 00:16:28,109
There's a neighborhood kid who
Cuts the lawns.
566
00:16:28,818 --> 00:16:33,155
Yes, he cuts the lawns and he
Washes the windows,
567
00:16:33,531 --> 00:16:34,407
That kind of thing.
568
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:37,076
Well, he's been inside the house
569
00:16:37,410 --> 00:16:38,828
Several times.
570
00:16:39,286 --> 00:16:40,413
Okay, we'll need his name.
571
00:16:40,413 --> 00:16:40,913
Okay, we'll need his name.
572
00:16:41,288 --> 00:16:43,124
Okay. I've got that.
573
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:46,419
He lives right across the street
There.
574
00:16:46,419 --> 00:16:49,422
He lives right across the street
There.
575
00:16:49,839 --> 00:16:51,465
He's in high school.
576
00:16:51,882 --> 00:16:52,425
Okay, when you came home,
577
00:16:52,425 --> 00:16:53,426
Okay, when you came home,
578
00:16:54,343 --> 00:16:55,428
Did you go in the front door, or
Did you go in this door here?
579
00:16:55,803 --> 00:16:56,637
Front door.
580
00:16:57,096 --> 00:16:58,055
You were unloading groceries?
581
00:16:58,264 --> 00:16:58,431
Yes.
582
00:16:58,431 --> 00:16:59,640
Yes.
583
00:17:00,433 --> 00:17:03,436
The car and the groceries are a
Lot closer to that door,
584
00:17:04,395 --> 00:17:04,437
And the officer tells me that's
The door you usually use,
585
00:17:04,437 --> 00:17:06,439
And the officer tells me that's
The door you usually use,
586
00:17:06,897 --> 00:17:09,150
So why'd you go in that door?
587
00:17:09,442 --> 00:17:10,443
I don't know.
588
00:17:10,443 --> 00:17:10,693
I don't know.
589
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:16,449
Now, I understand
590
00:17:16,449 --> 00:17:16,740
Now, I understand
591
00:17:17,366 --> 00:17:18,284
You usually come in through the
Back.
592
00:17:18,868 --> 00:17:20,327
This time you came in the front
Door?
593
00:17:20,619 --> 00:17:22,371
Why was that?
594
00:17:22,788 --> 00:17:26,459
I...I don't know. I...
595
00:17:27,209 --> 00:17:28,461
I can't remember why we came in
That door.
596
00:17:28,461 --> 00:17:29,712
I can't remember why we came in
That door.
597
00:17:30,463 --> 00:17:32,798
Dad wanted to check the mailbox
By the front door,
598
00:17:33,257 --> 00:17:34,467
So that's the way we went in.
599
00:17:34,467 --> 00:17:35,468
So that's the way we went in.
600
00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:36,927
Did he get any mail?
601
00:17:37,303 --> 00:17:38,679
Just bills, I think.
602
00:17:39,305 --> 00:17:40,473
Now, what about your wife this
Morning?
603
00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:42,057
Was she in good spirits?
604
00:17:42,641 --> 00:17:46,353
She said she had a good night.
Yeah.
605
00:17:46,854 --> 00:17:47,605
She said she was feeling better.
606
00:17:47,938 --> 00:17:49,940
Was she in, uh...
607
00:17:50,691 --> 00:17:52,485
Was she experiencing pain, bad
Pain from time to time?
608
00:17:52,485 --> 00:17:53,486
Was she experiencing pain, bad
Pain from time to time?
609
00:17:54,278 --> 00:17:56,989
There's some pretty serious pain
Medication up there.
610
00:17:57,364 --> 00:17:58,491
Yeah, yeah, well...
611
00:17:58,491 --> 00:17:59,742
Yeah, yeah, well...
612
00:18:00,201 --> 00:18:01,535
It's up and down, you know?
613
00:18:01,785 --> 00:18:03,245
For sure.
614
00:18:03,746 --> 00:18:04,497
And the cancer was in remission?
615
00:18:04,497 --> 00:18:05,498
And the cancer was in remission?
616
00:18:06,165 --> 00:18:09,084
Yeah. She'd had immunotherapy
Treatments.
617
00:18:09,543 --> 00:18:10,503
And that was working, was it?
618
00:18:10,503 --> 00:18:10,628
And that was working, was it?
619
00:18:10,878 --> 00:18:12,004
Mm-hmm.
620
00:18:12,421 --> 00:18:14,507
You do understand, sir,
621
00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:16,509
That, uh, at this particular
Time
622
00:18:16,509 --> 00:18:17,009
That, uh, at this particular
Time
623
00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:19,386
We do have to consider other
Possibilities.
624
00:18:19,595 --> 00:18:20,930
Yes.
625
00:18:21,597 --> 00:18:22,515
Now your wife, she was pretty
Sick, right?
626
00:18:22,515 --> 00:18:22,806
Now your wife, she was pretty
Sick, right?
627
00:18:23,015 --> 00:18:26,519
Yes.
628
00:18:26,977 --> 00:18:28,521
I'm wondering, just, um...
629
00:18:28,521 --> 00:18:29,647
I'm wondering, just, um...
630
00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:31,774
I'd be curious to know if you
Think that maybe...
631
00:18:32,399 --> 00:18:34,527
Is it possible that your wife
Killed herself?
632
00:18:34,527 --> 00:18:38,531
Is it possible that your wife
Killed herself?
633
00:18:38,822 --> 00:18:40,533
No.
634
00:18:40,533 --> 00:18:40,991
No.
635
00:18:41,283 --> 00:18:43,577
Abigail...
636
00:18:44,078 --> 00:18:46,539
She'd never take her own life.
637
00:18:46,539 --> 00:18:47,831
She'd never take her own life.
638
00:18:48,165 --> 00:18:51,335
She was catholic.
639
00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:52,545
Commit suicide, you...You go to
Hell.
640
00:18:52,545 --> 00:18:55,089
Commit suicide, you...You go to
Hell.
641
00:18:58,717 --> 00:18:59,843
You've got that 40-minute time
Delay
642
00:19:00,261 --> 00:19:01,262
Before they called 911.
643
00:19:01,637 --> 00:19:02,555
That's a little odd.
644
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:03,764
That's a long time to be waiting
645
00:19:04,139 --> 00:19:04,557
To make that call.
646
00:19:04,557 --> 00:19:05,516
To make that call.
647
00:19:06,225 --> 00:19:06,850
Yeah, we should check that kid
Across the street.
648
00:19:07,226 --> 00:19:08,394
He knew their habits.
649
00:19:09,061 --> 00:19:10,271
He's got a really good view from
There, too.
650
00:19:10,604 --> 00:19:12,690
[ pager beeps ]
651
00:19:13,148 --> 00:19:15,067
I've got to get out of here.
652
00:19:15,317 --> 00:19:16,360
Yeah...
653
00:19:16,902 --> 00:19:17,695
Let me know if you hear
Anything.
654
00:19:18,028 --> 00:19:19,321
See you, dominic.
655
00:19:19,947 --> 00:19:22,032
I'd like to take you back to the
Morning
656
00:19:22,825 --> 00:19:24,827
That stacey miller's body was
Found in the fraser river.
657
00:19:25,369 --> 00:19:27,079
You may want your notes for
This.
658
00:19:27,496 --> 00:19:28,581
I don't need my notes.
659
00:19:28,831 --> 00:19:29,915
Okay.
660
00:19:30,207 --> 00:19:31,584
You testified
661
00:19:32,376 --> 00:19:32,793
That you noticed numerous wounds
On the victim's body.
662
00:19:33,043 --> 00:19:34,044
Correct.
663
00:19:34,670 --> 00:19:36,088
But you didn't know where they
Were from.
664
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:40,342
I didn't know, and I think I
Answered that already.
665
00:19:40,634 --> 00:19:41,927
You testified
666
00:19:42,761 --> 00:19:44,013
That stacey was last seen hiking
About 20 miles up the river.
667
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,599
That was in her missing persons
Report, too.
668
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:47,766
That was in her missing persons
Report, too.
669
00:19:48,392 --> 00:19:49,268
That's rough country up there,
Isn't it?
670
00:19:49,602 --> 00:19:50,644
It's wilderness?
671
00:19:51,312 --> 00:19:52,605
Pretty rough country up there,
Yeah, in spots.
672
00:19:52,605 --> 00:19:53,314
Pretty rough country up there,
Yeah, in spots.
673
00:19:53,981 --> 00:19:56,817
So you're there at the scene
With homicide,
674
00:19:57,651 --> 00:19:58,611
And you're all standing around
Looking at the victim's body,
675
00:19:58,611 --> 00:19:59,612
And you're all standing around
Looking at the victim's body,
676
00:20:00,029 --> 00:20:01,113
And you've just found out
677
00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:02,489
She was last seen hiking
678
00:20:02,948 --> 00:20:04,158
In some pretty rough terrain,
679
00:20:04,867 --> 00:20:06,785
So that must have started a
Little speculation
680
00:20:07,411 --> 00:20:08,704
About what might have happened
To stacey.
681
00:20:09,204 --> 00:20:10,623
We discussed some possibilities.
682
00:20:10,623 --> 00:20:11,832
We discussed some possibilities.
683
00:20:12,416 --> 00:20:13,334
Maybe you should look at your
Notes.
684
00:20:13,667 --> 00:20:14,835
No, thank you.
685
00:20:15,419 --> 00:20:16,629
Was it you or one of the
Detectives
686
00:20:16,629 --> 00:20:18,756
Was it you or one of the
Detectives
687
00:20:19,131 --> 00:20:20,382
Who first mentioned
688
00:20:20,966 --> 00:20:22,092
That maybe stacey had been the
Victim
689
00:20:22,468 --> 00:20:22,635
Of an animal attack?
690
00:20:22,635 --> 00:20:23,761
Of an animal attack?
691
00:20:24,053 --> 00:20:24,803
I'm not sure.
692
00:20:25,179 --> 00:20:26,472
That was mentioned.
693
00:20:27,181 --> 00:20:28,057
It's in your notes here, a
Possible cougar attack.
694
00:20:28,474 --> 00:20:28,641
Oh, it's in there, then?
695
00:20:28,641 --> 00:20:29,642
Oh, it's in there, then?
696
00:20:30,225 --> 00:20:31,101
Okay, so what's your point?
697
00:20:31,393 --> 00:20:32,603
Why a cougar?
698
00:20:33,187 --> 00:20:34,605
Because one of the constables on
The scene
699
00:20:35,314 --> 00:20:36,398
Said that a cougar had been
Spotted in that area
700
00:20:36,774 --> 00:20:38,150
Up the river there,
701
00:20:38,901 --> 00:20:40,611
And, that apparently a young boy
Had been attacked,
702
00:20:41,403 --> 00:20:44,198
And there was some cougar scat
Seen in the immediate area,
703
00:20:44,615 --> 00:20:45,658
So that led to some talk,
704
00:20:46,075 --> 00:20:46,659
And then we all decided,
705
00:20:46,659 --> 00:20:47,034
And then we all decided,
706
00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:48,744
"That's not what we're looking
At here."
707
00:20:49,370 --> 00:20:50,037
You must have thought something
About it.
708
00:20:50,412 --> 00:20:51,080
You wrote it down.
709
00:20:51,497 --> 00:20:52,581
I write everything down.
710
00:20:53,207 --> 00:20:53,957
I find that's the best policy,
You know?
711
00:20:54,541 --> 00:20:55,167
It's like, gather all your
Evidence
712
00:20:55,542 --> 00:20:56,752
And you look at it,
713
00:20:57,544 --> 00:20:58,671
And it doesn't mean you can't
Accept another viewpoint
714
00:20:58,671 --> 00:20:58,796
And it doesn't mean you can't
Accept another viewpoint
715
00:20:59,254 --> 00:21:00,881
Once all the evidence is in.
716
00:21:01,507 --> 00:21:02,758
That's how an investigation
Progresses.
717
00:21:03,425 --> 00:21:04,343
But you didn't think it was a
Cougar attack?
718
00:21:05,094 --> 00:21:06,428
That's what I just said. You
Should check your notes.
719
00:21:07,012 --> 00:21:09,515
And you were sure after the
Autopsy?
720
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:10,683
The autopsy showed
721
00:21:11,392 --> 00:21:12,768
That the victim had been
Stabbed.
722
00:21:13,227 --> 00:21:14,520
And there was no disagreement
723
00:21:15,104 --> 00:21:16,689
With the pathologist on her
Findings?
724
00:21:16,689 --> 00:21:17,856
With the pathologist on her
Findings?
725
00:21:18,524 --> 00:21:19,983
Is that a question, or is that a
Statement?
726
00:21:20,734 --> 00:21:21,694
You and the homicide detectives
Are at the autopsy
727
00:21:22,236 --> 00:21:22,695
With the pathologist,
728
00:21:22,695 --> 00:21:23,195
With the pathologist,
729
00:21:23,779 --> 00:21:24,822
And no one mentions the
Possibility
730
00:21:25,197 --> 00:21:25,948
Of a cougar attack.
731
00:21:26,365 --> 00:21:27,241
Is that your testimony?
732
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:28,701
Someone might have suggested
733
00:21:28,701 --> 00:21:29,201
Someone might have suggested
734
00:21:30,035 --> 00:21:30,786
That there was the possibility
That it was an animal attack,
735
00:21:31,286 --> 00:21:31,870
And I said to the pathologist,
736
00:21:32,454 --> 00:21:33,872
"Are you sure it wasn't an
Animal?"
737
00:21:34,331 --> 00:21:34,707
She said, "I'm pretty sure,"
738
00:21:34,707 --> 00:21:35,791
She said, "I'm pretty sure,"
739
00:21:36,166 --> 00:21:37,501
So we went with that.
740
00:21:38,168 --> 00:21:39,086
That's just one of the qualified
Professionals
741
00:21:39,545 --> 00:21:40,713
That I rely upon every day.
742
00:21:40,713 --> 00:21:41,255
That I rely upon every day.
743
00:21:41,797 --> 00:21:43,132
So you might have suggested to
Her
744
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:44,174
That somebody thought it was a
Mountain lion,
745
00:21:44,591 --> 00:21:45,259
Or you did suggest it?
746
00:21:45,509 --> 00:21:46,719
I did.
747
00:21:47,302 --> 00:21:49,054
After that suggestion had been
Made,
748
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,806
There was no ongoing
Disagreement, then?
749
00:21:51,181 --> 00:21:52,349
It was a stabbing.
750
00:21:53,016 --> 00:21:54,727
Everybody was on the same page
On that one.
751
00:21:55,144 --> 00:21:56,812
Thank you.
752
00:22:05,738 --> 00:22:06,864
Patricia...
753
00:22:07,322 --> 00:22:08,741
I think you've got a problem
754
00:22:09,324 --> 00:22:10,284
On the stacey miller case.
755
00:22:10,826 --> 00:22:11,994
We can't officially discuss
This.
756
00:22:12,619 --> 00:22:13,746
Well, what sort of problem,
Unofficially?
757
00:22:14,413 --> 00:22:16,498
The defense lawyer is asking me
Questions
758
00:22:17,207 --> 00:22:18,709
About whether there's any
Possible disagreement
759
00:22:19,168 --> 00:22:20,169
Between you, me, and homicide
760
00:22:20,794 --> 00:22:21,754
As to the nature of her wounds,
Right?
761
00:22:22,337 --> 00:22:22,755
And what's that about?
762
00:22:22,755 --> 00:22:23,589
And what's that about?
763
00:22:24,339 --> 00:22:26,133
Well, he's got my notes. He's
Got homicide's notes.
764
00:22:26,925 --> 00:22:28,594
I definitely put it in there, a
Possible cougar attack,
765
00:22:29,303 --> 00:22:30,596
But I don't know what other
People's notes say,
766
00:22:31,263 --> 00:22:32,765
So I thought I'd better give you
The heads-up.
767
00:22:33,474 --> 00:22:34,767
Yeah, okay. I'd better talk to
The crown,
768
00:22:34,767 --> 00:22:35,100
Yeah, okay. I'd better talk to
The crown,
769
00:22:35,768 --> 00:22:37,019
See if he knows what hardy's
Lawyer's up to.
770
00:22:37,644 --> 00:22:37,853
See if there's anything in your
Notes.
771
00:22:38,145 --> 00:22:39,605
That's vital.
772
00:22:40,022 --> 00:22:40,773
You got something for me?
773
00:22:40,773 --> 00:22:41,482
You got something for me?
774
00:22:42,065 --> 00:22:43,400
Your gunshot victim from
Yesterday?
775
00:22:43,984 --> 00:22:44,943
I went in there, took a look
Around.
776
00:22:45,402 --> 00:22:46,695
The cancer had metastasized
777
00:22:47,321 --> 00:22:49,114
To her lymph, kidney, liver, you
Name it.
778
00:22:49,573 --> 00:22:50,783
It was eating away at her.
779
00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:52,534
Are you saying she was not in
Remission then?
780
00:22:52,910 --> 00:22:54,995
No. She was dying.
781
00:22:55,579 --> 00:22:56,830
Okay, what about the gunshot
Wound?
782
00:22:57,498 --> 00:22:58,791
Clean, direct shot through the
Left ventricle.
783
00:22:59,625 --> 00:23:01,794
Death was instantaneous,
Consistent with suicide.
784
00:23:02,544 --> 00:23:04,797
Women shoot to the heart. That's
What the stats say.
785
00:23:04,797 --> 00:23:05,798
Women shoot to the heart. That's
What the stats say.
786
00:23:06,548 --> 00:23:07,800
We did talk about it being a
Possible cougar attack.
787
00:23:08,383 --> 00:23:09,468
I've got it in my notes right
Here.
788
00:23:10,052 --> 00:23:10,803
- it's in the notes? - okay.
Thanks.
789
00:23:10,803 --> 00:23:12,805
- it's in the notes? - okay.
Thanks.
790
00:23:16,558 --> 00:23:16,809
- hi. - hi.
791
00:23:16,809 --> 00:23:17,810
- hi. - hi.
792
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:19,353
I'm sorry to bother you.
793
00:23:19,937 --> 00:23:20,437
It's all right. I was just
Tidying up.
794
00:23:20,813 --> 00:23:21,438
Is your brother home?
795
00:23:21,647 --> 00:23:22,815
No.
796
00:23:23,607 --> 00:23:24,691
I was wondering if I might have
The chance
797
00:23:25,192 --> 00:23:25,818
To sit down and talk with you.
798
00:23:26,318 --> 00:23:27,194
Sure. Come on in.
799
00:23:27,778 --> 00:23:28,821
Thanks. How's your father
Holding up?
800
00:23:28,821 --> 00:23:30,155
Thanks. How's your father
Holding up?
801
00:23:30,823 --> 00:23:33,450
Well, my mom and dad were
Married 50 years,
802
00:23:33,826 --> 00:23:34,827
So you can imagine.
803
00:23:34,827 --> 00:23:35,828
So you can imagine.
804
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,580
Yeah, I can.
805
00:23:38,914 --> 00:23:40,707
It's a long time.
806
00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:41,834
Yeah.
807
00:23:42,459 --> 00:23:44,336
All right, your mother's cancer.
808
00:23:44,962 --> 00:23:46,505
We've had her autopsy results
Back in,
809
00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:48,006
And it turns out
810
00:23:48,715 --> 00:23:50,968
That your mother's cancer was
Not in remission.
811
00:23:51,260 --> 00:23:52,135
Yes, it was.
812
00:23:52,553 --> 00:23:52,845
Yeah, she said it was.
813
00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:53,512
Yeah, she said it was.
814
00:23:53,971 --> 00:23:54,972
Well, if she told you that,
815
00:23:55,597 --> 00:23:56,932
Then she wasn't telling you the
Truth.
816
00:23:57,182 --> 00:23:58,851
Really?
817
00:23:58,851 --> 00:24:00,894
Really?
818
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,731
So my question for you is, like,
Are you sure
819
00:24:05,357 --> 00:24:06,650
That she never discussed suicide
With you?
820
00:24:07,025 --> 00:24:09,736
No. No, not with me.
821
00:24:10,195 --> 00:24:10,863
Okay, how about anybody else?
822
00:24:10,863 --> 00:24:11,864
Okay, how about anybody else?
823
00:24:12,155 --> 00:24:13,282
No.
824
00:24:13,574 --> 00:24:14,491
Did you know
825
00:24:15,075 --> 00:24:16,869
Your parents kept a gun in the
House?
826
00:24:17,327 --> 00:24:18,954
Yeah. It was in the dresser.
827
00:24:19,663 --> 00:24:20,998
This gun had been there for a
Long time, or...
828
00:24:21,415 --> 00:24:22,875
Since we were kids. Yeah.
829
00:24:22,875 --> 00:24:23,375
Since we were kids. Yeah.
830
00:24:24,042 --> 00:24:25,085
So your mom knew where that gun
Was, then?
831
00:24:25,627 --> 00:24:26,628
Yeah. She warned us all the
Time.
832
00:24:27,212 --> 00:24:28,881
Did she? Was it always kept
Loaded?
833
00:24:28,881 --> 00:24:30,132
Did she? Was it always kept
Loaded?
834
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:32,885
Yeah.
835
00:24:33,343 --> 00:24:34,678
The reason for that was what?
836
00:24:35,387 --> 00:24:36,346
Was she nervous about all the
Break-ins lately?
837
00:24:36,638 --> 00:24:37,639
My dad was.
838
00:24:38,181 --> 00:24:38,974
There'd been a few more than
Usual
839
00:24:39,349 --> 00:24:40,893
The last year or two.
840
00:24:40,893 --> 00:24:41,476
The last year or two.
841
00:24:42,102 --> 00:24:45,063
All the home invasions you read
About...
842
00:24:45,814 --> 00:24:46,899
I guess I should have paid more
Attention to that.
843
00:24:46,899 --> 00:24:50,444
I guess I should have paid more
Attention to that.
844
00:24:51,194 --> 00:24:52,905
You know, the three of you went
Shopping together,
845
00:24:52,905 --> 00:24:54,489
You know, the three of you went
Shopping together,
846
00:24:55,157 --> 00:24:56,241
And you left her here by herself
In the house,
847
00:24:56,825 --> 00:24:57,451
So if you were worried about
That...
848
00:24:57,784 --> 00:24:58,911
I know. I know.
849
00:24:58,911 --> 00:24:59,912
I know. I know.
850
00:25:00,537 --> 00:25:02,205
Had there been some discussion
851
00:25:02,831 --> 00:25:03,916
That someone should stay behind
With her?
852
00:25:04,166 --> 00:25:04,917
Mm-hmm.
853
00:25:04,917 --> 00:25:05,375
Mm-hmm.
854
00:25:05,792 --> 00:25:08,337
I think we did, uh-huh,
855
00:25:08,795 --> 00:25:10,047
But, you know, we also talked
856
00:25:10,631 --> 00:25:10,923
About dad not being chained to
The house.
857
00:25:10,923 --> 00:25:11,965
About dad not being chained to
The house.
858
00:25:12,174 --> 00:25:13,175
Why?
859
00:25:13,717 --> 00:25:14,968
Because he rarely left her
Alone?
860
00:25:15,218 --> 00:25:16,929
Right.
861
00:25:16,929 --> 00:25:18,096
Right.
862
00:25:18,347 --> 00:25:20,182
Right.
863
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:25,604
They're bringing in a
Pathologist by the name of john
Rose
864
00:25:26,063 --> 00:25:27,606
To counter your testimony.
865
00:25:28,106 --> 00:25:28,941
I was afraid that might happen.
866
00:25:29,191 --> 00:25:30,943
He is...
867
00:25:31,693 --> 00:25:33,153
- he's a very good witness. -
Yeah?
868
00:25:33,654 --> 00:25:34,947
So what do you know about him?
869
00:25:35,572 --> 00:25:36,782
Well, he's an expert in animal
Attacks,
870
00:25:37,532 --> 00:25:38,700
So they're definitely going
After the cougar theory.
871
00:25:39,076 --> 00:25:40,035
That's his pet thing.
872
00:25:40,619 --> 00:25:40,953
Is it possible it was a cougar
Attack?
873
00:25:40,953 --> 00:25:42,412
Is it possible it was a cougar
Attack?
874
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,957
Not unless the cougar was
Packing a knife.
875
00:25:52,881 --> 00:25:52,965
Hey, how are you doing?
876
00:25:52,965 --> 00:25:55,092
Hey, how are you doing?
877
00:25:55,842 --> 00:25:57,970
Did you get the gsr results back
On abigail jefferson?
878
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:58,971
Yeah. Chick says
879
00:25:58,971 --> 00:25:59,471
Yeah. Chick says
880
00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:02,057
That she did not fire the gun
That killed her.
881
00:26:02,557 --> 00:26:04,977
Oh, no? What about the prints?
882
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,687
Oh, wiped clean, so I guess the
Thief
883
00:26:07,187 --> 00:26:08,271
Must have been wearing gloves.
884
00:26:08,939 --> 00:26:09,564
Chick's still working on the
Ballistics now.
885
00:26:09,898 --> 00:26:10,732
You're kidding.
886
00:26:11,024 --> 00:26:12,442
Hey, uh, dom?
887
00:26:13,068 --> 00:26:13,986
Can I ask your advice about
Something?
888
00:26:14,444 --> 00:26:15,862
Yeah, sure.
889
00:26:16,446 --> 00:26:16,989
These here long-term care
Facilities,
890
00:26:16,989 --> 00:26:18,156
These here long-term care
Facilities,
891
00:26:18,573 --> 00:26:19,992
Are any of them any good?
892
00:26:20,534 --> 00:26:21,368
I guess a couple of them are
Okay.
893
00:26:21,785 --> 00:26:22,869
Yeah, I thought so, too,
894
00:26:23,412 --> 00:26:24,496
But I looked at about six of
Them,
895
00:26:25,122 --> 00:26:25,872
And none of them seemed very
Nice to me.
896
00:26:26,581 --> 00:26:27,332
They just let the people wander
Around in there,
897
00:26:27,791 --> 00:26:29,001
And they're trying to tell me
898
00:26:29,668 --> 00:26:30,877
That, oh, that's a good thing to
Do?
899
00:26:31,294 --> 00:26:32,671
They all looked stoned.
900
00:26:33,046 --> 00:26:35,007
I saw cockroaches.
901
00:26:35,007 --> 00:26:35,048
I saw cockroaches.
902
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:37,718
Know what?
903
00:26:38,218 --> 00:26:39,261
Here's the name and the address
904
00:26:39,886 --> 00:26:41,013
Of the one I put pops in before
He died.
905
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:42,014
It was actually okay.
906
00:26:42,431 --> 00:26:43,348
Oh yeah? Okay.
907
00:26:43,724 --> 00:26:44,808
Hey, thanks, dominic.
908
00:26:45,142 --> 00:26:46,018
Hey, no problem.
909
00:26:46,643 --> 00:26:47,019
So far, only the jewelry's
Missing, right?
910
00:26:47,019 --> 00:26:49,521
So far, only the jewelry's
Missing, right?
911
00:26:50,022 --> 00:26:51,273
Yeah, that's what it looks like.
912
00:26:52,024 --> 00:26:53,025
I've got a list of items from
The insurance company.
913
00:26:53,025 --> 00:26:54,776
I've got a list of items from
The insurance company.
914
00:26:55,235 --> 00:26:56,111
So what about this teenager
915
00:26:56,611 --> 00:26:58,113
Who does odd jobs for the house?
916
00:26:58,739 --> 00:26:59,031
He definitely looks like a
Possibility.
917
00:26:59,031 --> 00:27:00,032
He definitely looks like a
Possibility.
918
00:27:00,824 --> 00:27:02,034
He showed up two hours late for
School,
919
00:27:02,617 --> 00:27:03,326
Had to stop off at the mall.
920
00:27:03,785 --> 00:27:04,786
So he's got no alibi, right?
921
00:27:05,412 --> 00:27:07,039
Yeah, but the only thing wrong
With that
922
00:27:07,664 --> 00:27:08,540
Is he knew mrs. Jefferson had
Cancer.
923
00:27:08,999 --> 00:27:10,042
He's going to rob the place,
924
00:27:10,709 --> 00:27:11,043
He's got to know she's going to
Be at home.
925
00:27:11,043 --> 00:27:11,960
He's got to know she's going to
Be at home.
926
00:27:12,627 --> 00:27:12,836
That's a pretty big risk for him
To be taking.
927
00:27:13,045 --> 00:27:14,046
Yep.
928
00:27:14,463 --> 00:27:16,131
Worth a lot of money.
929
00:27:16,757 --> 00:27:17,049
Maybe he figured it was worth
The risk.
930
00:27:17,049 --> 00:27:17,841
Maybe he figured it was worth
The risk.
931
00:27:18,258 --> 00:27:19,092
We've got a bulletin out
932
00:27:19,718 --> 00:27:20,886
To all the pawn shops, melt-down
Joints,
933
00:27:21,428 --> 00:27:22,095
See if anybody tries to fence
It.
934
00:27:22,721 --> 00:27:23,055
Okay, what are you thinking
About this?
935
00:27:23,055 --> 00:27:25,390
Okay, what are you thinking
About this?
936
00:27:26,141 --> 00:27:27,642
The woman's terminally ill, and
She's lying about it.
937
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:29,061
That should lead to suicide, but
It doesn't,
938
00:27:29,061 --> 00:27:29,603
That should lead to suicide, but
It doesn't,
939
00:27:30,228 --> 00:27:30,937
So I don't know what the hell to
Think.
940
00:27:31,354 --> 00:27:33,065
Well, uh, work the kid
941
00:27:33,774 --> 00:27:35,067
And keep talking to the family,
Then.
942
00:27:35,067 --> 00:27:35,984
And keep talking to the family,
Then.
943
00:27:36,318 --> 00:27:37,319
Hi. Excuse me.
944
00:27:37,611 --> 00:27:38,779
Hey, chick.
945
00:27:39,446 --> 00:27:40,280
I've got something here for you
On the .45.
946
00:27:40,572 --> 00:27:41,073
What's that?
947
00:27:41,073 --> 00:27:41,740
What's that?
948
00:27:42,032 --> 00:27:42,991
It jammed up.
949
00:27:43,492 --> 00:27:44,701
What do you mean, it jammed up?
950
00:27:45,368 --> 00:27:46,369
Well, the first shot killed mrs.
Jefferson,
951
00:27:46,995 --> 00:27:47,079
But, uh, there were two shots
Attempted,
952
00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:48,163
But, uh, there were two shots
Attempted,
953
00:27:48,747 --> 00:27:48,997
And the second round failed to
Fire.
954
00:27:49,372 --> 00:27:50,332
We've got a strike
955
00:27:50,832 --> 00:27:53,085
On the base of the round here.
956
00:27:53,085 --> 00:27:53,502
On the base of the round here.
957
00:27:53,919 --> 00:27:55,796
Matches the firing pin.
958
00:27:56,129 --> 00:27:57,130
It didn't fire.
959
00:27:57,547 --> 00:27:58,256
So what do you figure?
960
00:27:58,507 --> 00:27:59,091
Old ammo.
961
00:27:59,091 --> 00:28:01,384
Old ammo.
962
00:28:09,392 --> 00:28:10,393
Mr. Da vinci,
963
00:28:10,936 --> 00:28:11,103
You spoke with a wildlife
Officer
964
00:28:11,103 --> 00:28:12,270
You spoke with a wildlife
Officer
965
00:28:13,021 --> 00:28:14,106
That day you found stacey
Miller. Is that correct?
966
00:28:14,397 --> 00:28:15,565
Yes, I did.
967
00:28:16,233 --> 00:28:17,109
And what did he tell you about a
Mountain lion
968
00:28:17,109 --> 00:28:17,317
And what did he tell you about a
Mountain lion
969
00:28:17,943 --> 00:28:18,235
In the area where stacey went
Missing?
970
00:28:18,568 --> 00:28:19,986
Do you recall?
971
00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:21,613
There was a boy on a mountain
Bike
972
00:28:22,197 --> 00:28:23,115
Attacked by a cougar that
Morning.
973
00:28:23,115 --> 00:28:23,448
Attacked by a cougar that
Morning.
974
00:28:23,949 --> 00:28:25,492
Was the boy hurt in the attack?
975
00:28:26,118 --> 00:28:28,036
No. He scared the cougar off,
Apparently.
976
00:28:28,662 --> 00:28:29,121
Did they find that cougar, do
You know?
977
00:28:29,121 --> 00:28:29,871
Did they find that cougar, do
You know?
978
00:28:30,205 --> 00:28:31,123
No, they gave up.
979
00:28:31,790 --> 00:28:32,249
Apparently, they found the
Tracks,
980
00:28:32,666 --> 00:28:33,333
And they found some scat,
981
00:28:33,834 --> 00:28:35,001
But, in the end, they gave up.
982
00:28:35,418 --> 00:28:37,379
And did you find evidence
983
00:28:38,255 --> 00:28:39,840
That the cougar had been in that
Area where stacey went missing?
984
00:28:40,298 --> 00:28:41,133
Well, we found her backpack.
985
00:28:41,133 --> 00:28:42,384
Well, we found her backpack.
986
00:28:42,884 --> 00:28:44,136
Uh, it had her name inside it.
987
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:46,721
And did the wildlife officer
Point out evidence
988
00:28:47,305 --> 00:28:48,849
That the cougar had been in the
Area?
989
00:28:49,641 --> 00:28:52,060
He pointed out some scat and he
Pointed out some tracks,
990
00:28:52,686 --> 00:28:53,145
Yeah, but it was along the
Riverbank there
991
00:28:53,145 --> 00:28:54,980
Yeah, but it was along the
Riverbank there
992
00:28:55,438 --> 00:28:56,731
Where we found the backpack.
993
00:28:57,482 --> 00:28:58,108
Down along the river from where
The bag was found?
994
00:28:58,441 --> 00:28:59,151
I just said that.
995
00:28:59,151 --> 00:28:59,484
I just said that.
996
00:29:00,068 --> 00:29:01,403
What did you tell the wildlife
Officer
997
00:29:02,112 --> 00:29:03,321
About his opinion that stacey
Had been attacked
998
00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:05,157
By this same young cougar?
999
00:29:05,157 --> 00:29:06,408
By this same young cougar?
1000
00:29:06,783 --> 00:29:08,160
I really can't recall.
1001
00:29:09,035 --> 00:29:10,328
Okay, well, the wildlife officer
Testified this morning
1002
00:29:10,912 --> 00:29:11,163
That you said he was "Full of
It,"
1003
00:29:11,163 --> 00:29:12,956
That you said he was "Full of
It,"
1004
00:29:13,415 --> 00:29:14,666
And "To go practice his knots
1005
00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:16,626
For a merit badge."
1006
00:29:17,335 --> 00:29:18,461
I might have said something like
That, I guess.
1007
00:29:18,753 --> 00:29:20,172
Uh-huh. Okay.
1008
00:29:20,964 --> 00:29:23,008
Well, mr. Da vinci... It is mr.,
Not dr., correct?
1009
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,177
You've got a short memory. You
Know, there's no jury here.
1010
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,386
Why don't you just ask your
Question?
1011
00:29:26,678 --> 00:29:27,512
Mr. Da vinci,
1012
00:29:27,971 --> 00:29:29,181
When the observation was made
1013
00:29:29,181 --> 00:29:29,639
When the observation was made
1014
00:29:30,307 --> 00:29:31,349
That this might have been a
Cougar attack,
1015
00:29:31,933 --> 00:29:32,893
You did your best to dissuade
Anyone
1016
00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:34,186
From considering that
Possibility.
1017
00:29:34,728 --> 00:29:35,187
No, that is not true.
1018
00:29:35,187 --> 00:29:35,395
No, that is not true.
1019
00:29:36,062 --> 00:29:36,813
Did that intimidation extend to
The autopsy?
1020
00:29:37,314 --> 00:29:38,356
You were present at the autopsy.
1021
00:29:39,024 --> 00:29:40,192
I didn't intimidate anybody at
Any autopsy.
1022
00:29:40,942 --> 00:29:41,193
Did your own pathologist at any
Time say to you,
1023
00:29:41,193 --> 00:29:42,903
Did your own pathologist at any
Time say to you,
1024
00:29:43,403 --> 00:29:44,196
"These could be cougar wounds"?
1025
00:29:44,779 --> 00:29:46,072
No, I don't believe so.
1026
00:29:46,698 --> 00:29:47,199
I think you're lying to us, mr.
Da vinci.
1027
00:29:47,199 --> 00:29:47,824
I think you're lying to us, mr.
Da vinci.
1028
00:29:48,366 --> 00:29:48,909
I think I know what you're
Doing.
1029
00:29:49,534 --> 00:29:51,203
You're trying to just confuse
The issue
1030
00:29:51,828 --> 00:29:53,121
With this preposterous idea
1031
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:55,207
That it was a cougar that
Stalked stacey miller,
1032
00:29:55,874 --> 00:29:58,001
A cougar raped her, a cougar
Killed her?
1033
00:29:58,335 --> 00:29:59,211
I don't think--
1034
00:29:59,211 --> 00:29:59,377
I don't think--
1035
00:29:59,669 --> 00:30:01,504
Mr. Da vinci?
1036
00:30:01,796 --> 00:30:03,715
That's all.
1037
00:30:04,132 --> 00:30:05,175
Thank you, mr. Da vinci.
1038
00:30:05,467 --> 00:30:07,219
Next thing,
1039
00:30:08,136 --> 00:30:09,387
He'll be telling this court that
His client's a werewolf,
1040
00:30:09,888 --> 00:30:11,097
It was a full moon that night,
1041
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,016
And get a werewolf expert up
Here
1042
00:30:13,642 --> 00:30:14,392
To give us all lectures on
Lycanthropy.
1043
00:30:14,684 --> 00:30:15,852
Mr. Da vinci?
1044
00:30:16,186 --> 00:30:17,229
You're excused.
1045
00:30:17,229 --> 00:30:17,604
You're excused.
1046
00:30:17,979 --> 00:30:23,109
Sorry, your honor.
1047
00:30:31,743 --> 00:30:35,247
What's the song?
1048
00:30:35,247 --> 00:30:35,497
What's the song?
1049
00:30:35,789 --> 00:30:37,499
It's cuban.
1050
00:30:38,124 --> 00:30:41,253
Okay, is it, uh... Is that like
A samba?
1051
00:30:41,253 --> 00:30:42,337
Okay, is it, uh... Is that like
A samba?
1052
00:30:42,921 --> 00:30:46,299
Okay, so is it like one, two,
Three,
1053
00:30:46,633 --> 00:30:47,259
Or one-two-three?
1054
00:30:47,259 --> 00:30:49,261
Or one-two-three?
1055
00:30:49,678 --> 00:30:50,971
Okay, uh...
1056
00:30:51,638 --> 00:30:52,931
I'll just pick that up at the
Record store.
1057
00:30:53,223 --> 00:30:53,265
Yeah. Thanks.
1058
00:30:53,265 --> 00:30:56,685
Yeah. Thanks.
1059
00:30:56,893 --> 00:30:58,186
What?
1060
00:30:58,770 --> 00:30:59,271
I've just got something bugging
Me.
1061
00:30:59,271 --> 00:31:01,856
I've just got something bugging
Me.
1062
00:31:02,524 --> 00:31:03,608
You've got mrs. Jefferson lying
There in bed,
1063
00:31:04,025 --> 00:31:05,068
Dying of cancer, right,
1064
00:31:05,527 --> 00:31:06,528
And then, all of a sudden,
1065
00:31:07,195 --> 00:31:08,280
Everybody decides to get up and
Go shopping
1066
00:31:08,655 --> 00:31:09,990
At the grocery store?
1067
00:31:10,282 --> 00:31:11,283
I don't know.
1068
00:31:11,283 --> 00:31:12,200
I don't know.
1069
00:31:12,742 --> 00:31:16,329
Yeah, well, I can understand
That.
1070
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:17,289
Why don't you explain it to me?
1071
00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:17,914
Why don't you explain it to me?
1072
00:31:18,331 --> 00:31:20,292
Well, you need a break.
1073
00:31:21,084 --> 00:31:22,043
You're taking care of somebody
That's sick
1074
00:31:22,377 --> 00:31:23,295
Day and night.
1075
00:31:23,295 --> 00:31:23,962
Day and night.
1076
00:31:24,629 --> 00:31:25,964
You've got to get out, you know
What I mean?
1077
00:31:26,506 --> 00:31:27,716
You'll go crazy. You'll kill
Them.
1078
00:31:28,049 --> 00:31:28,925
You'll kill them?
1079
00:31:29,384 --> 00:31:30,593
Well, you don't kill them.
1080
00:31:30,969 --> 00:31:32,304
You lose your temper,
1081
00:31:33,096 --> 00:31:33,930
Then you say something to them
That hurts their feelings.
1082
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:35,307
I just can't help thinking
1083
00:31:35,307 --> 00:31:36,182
I just can't help thinking
1084
00:31:36,933 --> 00:31:38,184
That if somebody had stayed home
With her that day,
1085
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,103
She wouldn't be dead.
1086
00:31:40,812 --> 00:31:41,313
Yeah, or maybe there'd be two
People dead now.
1087
00:31:41,313 --> 00:31:43,273
Yeah, or maybe there'd be two
People dead now.
1088
00:31:43,732 --> 00:31:44,607
You think this was staged?
1089
00:31:45,066 --> 00:31:46,318
Well, usually you can tell.
1090
00:31:46,985 --> 00:31:47,319
It's over staged. There's too
Much detail.
1091
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:48,153
It's over staged. There's too
Much detail.
1092
00:31:48,445 --> 00:31:50,613
Well, I do.
1093
00:31:51,031 --> 00:31:52,699
I think it was staged.
1094
00:31:53,158 --> 00:31:53,325
Um, dr. Ramen, do you recall
1095
00:31:53,325 --> 00:31:55,327
Um, dr. Ramen, do you recall
1096
00:31:56,286 --> 00:31:58,330
That day stacey miller's body
Was brought in to be autopsied?
1097
00:31:58,580 --> 00:31:59,331
Yes.
1098
00:31:59,331 --> 00:31:59,372
Yes.
1099
00:31:59,873 --> 00:32:01,124
Who else was present that day?
1100
00:32:01,416 --> 00:32:02,334
Dr. Da vinci,
1101
00:32:03,001 --> 00:32:04,586
Two homicide detectives, a
Forensic expert,
1102
00:32:05,086 --> 00:32:05,337
And the coroner, mr. Da vinci.
1103
00:32:05,337 --> 00:32:06,629
And the coroner, mr. Da vinci.
1104
00:32:07,213 --> 00:32:09,257
And when the body was first
Examined,
1105
00:32:09,758 --> 00:32:10,675
A disagreement that took place
1106
00:32:11,051 --> 00:32:11,343
Between those present
1107
00:32:11,343 --> 00:32:12,302
Between those present
1108
00:32:13,011 --> 00:32:13,887
About whether or not the wounds
On stacey miller
1109
00:32:14,471 --> 00:32:15,847
Were possibly from a cougar
Attack?
1110
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:17,349
There was a discussion about
That.
1111
00:32:18,016 --> 00:32:19,351
Uh, discussion or disagreement?
1112
00:32:19,642 --> 00:32:20,935
Disagreement.
1113
00:32:21,561 --> 00:32:22,604
What was the nature of that
Disagreement?
1114
00:32:22,979 --> 00:32:23,355
It had been suggested
1115
00:32:23,355 --> 00:32:24,272
It had been suggested
1116
00:32:24,898 --> 00:32:26,107
That it had been a cougar seen
In the area
1117
00:32:26,733 --> 00:32:28,026
Where stacey miller had last
Been seen,
1118
00:32:28,485 --> 00:32:29,361
So the question was raised
1119
00:32:29,361 --> 00:32:29,402
So the question was raised
1120
00:32:29,986 --> 00:32:31,321
As to whether the wounds on her
Body
1121
00:32:31,821 --> 00:32:32,822
Were consistent with a cougar.
1122
00:32:33,365 --> 00:32:34,824
Do you recall who brought that
Up?
1123
00:32:35,575 --> 00:32:37,369
Mr. Da vinci had heard about it,
So he brought it up.
1124
00:32:38,036 --> 00:32:38,953
And was he thinking that this
Was the case,
1125
00:32:39,412 --> 00:32:40,330
That it was a cougar attack?
1126
00:32:40,955 --> 00:32:41,373
No, he thought it was a lot of
Nonsense.
1127
00:32:41,373 --> 00:32:41,956
No, he thought it was a lot of
Nonsense.
1128
00:32:42,707 --> 00:32:44,542
And how did dr. Da vinci feel
About this suggestion?
1129
00:32:45,085 --> 00:32:46,378
She wasn't as quick to dismiss
It
1130
00:32:46,836 --> 00:32:47,379
As he was.
1131
00:32:47,379 --> 00:32:47,587
As he was.
1132
00:32:48,088 --> 00:32:50,131
She wasn't quick to dismiss it?
1133
00:32:50,757 --> 00:32:52,175
Dr. Da vinci likes to keep an
Open mind,
1134
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:53,385
But that's not to say she
Believes
1135
00:32:53,385 --> 00:32:53,593
But that's not to say she
Believes
1136
00:32:54,052 --> 00:32:55,804
She was seeing cougar wounds.
1137
00:32:56,429 --> 00:32:57,430
Can you recall what she said,
Exactly?
1138
00:32:57,764 --> 00:32:58,973
Something like,
1139
00:32:59,641 --> 00:33:00,767
"Don't bring your prejudices
Into my autopsy."
1140
00:33:01,267 --> 00:33:02,394
And did that stop mr. Da vinci
1141
00:33:03,144 --> 00:33:04,312
From continuing to prejudice the
Matter?
1142
00:33:04,979 --> 00:33:05,397
I don't believe he did prejudice
The matter.
1143
00:33:05,397 --> 00:33:06,731
I don't believe he did prejudice
The matter.
1144
00:33:07,315 --> 00:33:10,026
Were you ever asked by dr. Da
Vinci
1145
00:33:10,652 --> 00:33:11,403
To examine the wounds on stacey
Miller?
1146
00:33:11,403 --> 00:33:11,569
To examine the wounds on stacey
Miller?
1147
00:33:11,986 --> 00:33:13,363
- yes. - why was that?
1148
00:33:13,822 --> 00:33:14,864
She wanted a second opinion
1149
00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:16,491
On the type of knife used in the
Attack.
1150
00:33:17,117 --> 00:33:17,409
So what did you think caused the
Wounds?
1151
00:33:17,409 --> 00:33:18,368
So what did you think caused the
Wounds?
1152
00:33:18,993 --> 00:33:20,286
I wasn't sure they were caused
By a knife.
1153
00:33:21,037 --> 00:33:21,413
I thought a different instrument
Might have been used
1154
00:33:21,746 --> 00:33:22,414
In the attack.
1155
00:33:22,956 --> 00:33:23,415
Thank you, doctor.
1156
00:33:23,415 --> 00:33:26,418
Thank you, doctor.
1157
00:33:26,876 --> 00:33:29,254
That's all.
1158
00:33:33,758 --> 00:33:34,884
Dr. Rose,
1159
00:33:35,468 --> 00:33:37,804
In your 17 years as a
Pathologist,
1160
00:33:38,596 --> 00:33:40,515
How many cases of cougar attacks
Have you investigated?
1161
00:33:40,723 --> 00:33:41,433
14.
1162
00:33:41,433 --> 00:33:43,143
14.
1163
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,561
14? That's impressive,
1164
00:33:45,061 --> 00:33:46,438
And where would those have been?
1165
00:33:47,313 --> 00:33:47,439
Well, a number of them were over
On vancouver island,
1166
00:33:47,439 --> 00:33:49,441
Well, a number of them were over
On vancouver island,
1167
00:33:50,024 --> 00:33:51,609
A couple were up in the rockies
Here,
1168
00:33:52,277 --> 00:33:53,445
And the rest were in california
And oregon.
1169
00:33:53,445 --> 00:33:53,736
And the rest were in california
And oregon.
1170
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,364
How many of those attacks were
Fatal?
1171
00:33:56,573 --> 00:33:57,657
Five.
1172
00:33:57,866 --> 00:33:59,451
Five.
1173
00:33:59,826 --> 00:34:01,244
And of those five,
1174
00:34:01,828 --> 00:34:02,495
Have cougar wounds and knife
Wounds
1175
00:34:02,912 --> 00:34:04,205
Sometimes been confused?
1176
00:34:04,664 --> 00:34:05,457
In two of those cases, yes.
1177
00:34:05,457 --> 00:34:05,498
In two of those cases, yes.
1178
00:34:05,790 --> 00:34:07,167
Why is that?
1179
00:34:07,959 --> 00:34:09,461
Why the confusion between cougar
Wounds and knife wounds?
1180
00:34:10,253 --> 00:34:11,463
Well, if you look at the
Pictures on the board,
1181
00:34:11,463 --> 00:34:12,839
Well, if you look at the
Pictures on the board,
1182
00:34:13,423 --> 00:34:14,883
You can see how they look
Similar.
1183
00:34:15,258 --> 00:34:16,468
Uh, the problem is
1184
00:34:17,218 --> 00:34:17,469
That most pathologists don't
Ever have the opportunity
1185
00:34:17,469 --> 00:34:18,720
That most pathologists don't
Ever have the opportunity
1186
00:34:19,137 --> 00:34:20,305
To see any cougar wounds,
1187
00:34:20,972 --> 00:34:23,308
So they don't know what they're
Looking at.
1188
00:34:23,766 --> 00:34:25,477
I see they do look similar.
1189
00:34:26,144 --> 00:34:28,438
A cougar often attacks from
Behind,
1190
00:34:28,855 --> 00:34:29,481
With both sets of claws.
1191
00:34:29,481 --> 00:34:30,148
With both sets of claws.
1192
00:34:30,815 --> 00:34:32,108
That would account for the
Superficial wounds
1193
00:34:32,609 --> 00:34:33,776
To the sides of the shoulders.
1194
00:34:34,486 --> 00:34:35,487
Now, the puncture wounds in the
Back of the neck
1195
00:34:35,487 --> 00:34:35,570
Now, the puncture wounds in the
Back of the neck
1196
00:34:36,154 --> 00:34:38,031
- come from the teeth. - what
Else?
1197
00:34:38,740 --> 00:34:41,493
Uh, well, the claw wounds have a
Particular depth.
1198
00:34:41,493 --> 00:34:41,576
Uh, well, the claw wounds have a
Particular depth.
1199
00:34:41,993 --> 00:34:43,077
Okay, you've had a chance
1200
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:45,497
To go over the autopsy
Photographs
1201
00:34:46,206 --> 00:34:47,499
Of stacey miller. Is that
Correct?
1202
00:34:48,291 --> 00:34:50,376
Yes, I had the opportunity to go
Over them at length.
1203
00:34:50,793 --> 00:34:52,170
And in your experience,
1204
00:34:52,962 --> 00:34:53,505
Having seen numerous wounds from
Numerous cougar attacks,
1205
00:34:53,505 --> 00:34:54,214
Having seen numerous wounds from
Numerous cougar attacks,
1206
00:34:54,464 --> 00:34:55,590
Do they fit
1207
00:34:56,299 --> 00:34:57,926
The particular criteria that
You've established
1208
00:34:58,301 --> 00:34:59,010
For cougar attacks?
1209
00:34:59,427 --> 00:34:59,511
Yes, absolutely. They do.
1210
00:34:59,511 --> 00:35:00,512
Yes, absolutely. They do.
1211
00:35:01,054 --> 00:35:02,514
You can see that there's a
Pattern
1212
00:35:03,389 --> 00:35:05,517
To the placement of the wounds
On her neck and shoulders,
1213
00:35:05,517 --> 00:35:05,725
To the placement of the wounds
On her neck and shoulders,
1214
00:35:06,309 --> 00:35:07,644
And these wounds correspond
Directly
1215
00:35:08,394 --> 00:35:10,230
To the lengths and depths of
Cougar claws and bites
1216
00:35:10,605 --> 00:35:11,523
That I've studied.
1217
00:35:11,523 --> 00:35:12,357
That I've studied.
1218
00:35:13,024 --> 00:35:15,068
Okay, and what about evidence of
Cougar dna
1219
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,778
In the wound?
1220
00:35:17,403 --> 00:35:17,529
Well, naturally, we'd expect to
See that,
1221
00:35:17,529 --> 00:35:18,696
Well, naturally, we'd expect to
See that,
1222
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:20,031
But in this case,
1223
00:35:20,573 --> 00:35:21,616
With the body being in the
Water,
1224
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,535
Evidence might have been washed
Away.
1225
00:35:23,535 --> 00:35:24,244
Evidence might have been washed
Away.
1226
00:35:24,953 --> 00:35:26,204
Just as evidence of the alleged
Sexual assault,
1227
00:35:26,829 --> 00:35:27,288
The semen, might have been
Washed away?
1228
00:35:27,622 --> 00:35:29,541
That's correct.
1229
00:35:30,458 --> 00:35:34,504
Doctor, who is the victim of a
Typical cougar attack?
1230
00:35:35,171 --> 00:35:35,547
It's usually someone 16 years of
Age or under,
1231
00:35:35,547 --> 00:35:37,549
It's usually someone 16 years of
Age or under,
1232
00:35:38,383 --> 00:35:41,553
Uh, well, the smaller the prey,
The easier the kill.
1233
00:35:41,553 --> 00:35:41,594
Uh, well, the smaller the prey,
The easier the kill.
1234
00:35:42,136 --> 00:35:43,471
Stacey miller was a petite
Woman.
1235
00:35:44,013 --> 00:35:44,556
Would she fall into that
Category?
1236
00:35:44,931 --> 00:35:46,349
Yes. Absolutely.
1237
00:35:46,724 --> 00:35:47,559
Thank you, doctor.
1238
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:48,351
Thank you, doctor.
1239
00:35:50,645 --> 00:35:53,565
Now, your sister tells us that
You knew where the gun was,
1240
00:35:54,315 --> 00:35:55,567
And have known since you were
Children.
1241
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:57,110
That's not what you told us
Earlier.
1242
00:35:57,527 --> 00:35:58,444
You said you had no idea.
1243
00:35:58,778 --> 00:35:59,571
I guess I knew.
1244
00:36:00,196 --> 00:36:01,281
I just didn't recall when you
Asked me.
1245
00:36:01,906 --> 00:36:03,575
We had our forensic expert check
The gun.
1246
00:36:04,367 --> 00:36:05,577
He tells us a second shot was
Attempted,
1247
00:36:05,994 --> 00:36:07,287
But it didn't fire.
1248
00:36:07,954 --> 00:36:08,580
You've got some old ammunition
There, I guess.
1249
00:36:08,871 --> 00:36:11,583
Okay.
1250
00:36:11,583 --> 00:36:11,666
Okay.
1251
00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:13,459
Did your mother ask you at any
Time
1252
00:36:13,918 --> 00:36:14,168
To help her commit suicide?
1253
00:36:14,377 --> 00:36:16,796
No.
1254
00:36:17,255 --> 00:36:17,589
Did your father ever ask you
1255
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:18,464
Did your father ever ask you
1256
00:36:19,048 --> 00:36:19,591
To help him end your mother's
Life?
1257
00:36:19,882 --> 00:36:21,342
No.
1258
00:36:22,051 --> 00:36:23,011
Did you rearrange anything in
Your mother's room
1259
00:36:23,428 --> 00:36:23,595
After you found her dead?
1260
00:36:23,595 --> 00:36:24,596
After you found her dead?
1261
00:36:25,096 --> 00:36:27,307
- no. - well, somebody did.
1262
00:36:28,016 --> 00:36:29,434
It was either you, your sister,
Or your father.
1263
00:36:29,851 --> 00:36:31,811
I think you're mistaken.
1264
00:36:32,478 --> 00:36:34,397
If we go to your place with a
Search warrant,
1265
00:36:35,064 --> 00:36:35,607
Are we going to find your
Mother's jewelry?
1266
00:36:35,607 --> 00:36:36,399
Are we going to find your
Mother's jewelry?
1267
00:36:36,608 --> 00:36:38,067
No.
1268
00:36:38,693 --> 00:36:39,694
We're going to have to ask your
Father
1269
00:36:40,153 --> 00:36:40,695
All these same questions now,
1270
00:36:41,195 --> 00:36:41,613
Everything that we've asked you.
1271
00:36:41,613 --> 00:36:41,904
Everything that we've asked you.
1272
00:36:42,322 --> 00:36:43,406
You know that, don't you?
1273
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:44,907
Go right ahead.
1274
00:36:45,116 --> 00:36:47,619
Okay.
1275
00:36:47,619 --> 00:36:48,161
Okay.
1276
00:36:52,332 --> 00:36:52,540
Do you know how many cougar
Attacks
1277
00:36:53,249 --> 00:36:53,625
Have been recorded in british
Columbia
1278
00:36:53,625 --> 00:36:53,666
Have been recorded in british
Columbia
1279
00:36:54,042 --> 00:36:55,335
In the past 10 years?
1280
00:36:55,710 --> 00:36:56,878
Oh, not that many.
1281
00:36:57,587 --> 00:36:59,464
Only six have been recorded in
The last 10 years.
1282
00:36:59,964 --> 00:37:01,549
Were any of those attacks fatal?
1283
00:37:01,883 --> 00:37:02,925
Yes, two of them.
1284
00:37:03,343 --> 00:37:04,636
What do we usually find
1285
00:37:05,219 --> 00:37:05,637
Is the nature of most cougar
Attacks?
1286
00:37:05,637 --> 00:37:07,013
Is the nature of most cougar
Attacks?
1287
00:37:07,305 --> 00:37:08,973
Well, we know
1288
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,184
That cougars attack mostly from
Behind,
1289
00:37:11,809 --> 00:37:13,227
Uh, that they use not only their
Claws,
1290
00:37:13,561 --> 00:37:14,646
But their teeth,
1291
00:37:15,271 --> 00:37:16,648
So you usually see a variety of
Wounds--
1292
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:17,649
Uh, bite marks, scratches,
1293
00:37:17,649 --> 00:37:19,067
Uh, bite marks, scratches,
1294
00:37:19,692 --> 00:37:21,944
Claw marks, lacerations, lateral
Tearing,
1295
00:37:22,570 --> 00:37:23,655
Also crushing of the bone and
Soft tissue
1296
00:37:23,655 --> 00:37:24,656
Also crushing of the bone and
Soft tissue
1297
00:37:25,031 --> 00:37:26,240
From the bite.
1298
00:37:27,075 --> 00:37:28,951
None of which you recognized in
The body of stacey miller?
1299
00:37:29,243 --> 00:37:29,661
Uh, correct.
1300
00:37:29,661 --> 00:37:30,411
Uh, correct.
1301
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:32,372
Cougars also sometimes drag
Their victims,
1302
00:37:32,914 --> 00:37:34,123
And there was no evidence of
That.
1303
00:37:34,707 --> 00:37:35,667
What do we usually find is the
Fatal wound
1304
00:37:35,667 --> 00:37:36,376
What do we usually find is the
Fatal wound
1305
00:37:36,793 --> 00:37:38,169
In most cougar attacks?
1306
00:37:38,961 --> 00:37:41,673
Usually, it's from the jaw
Crushing the vertebral column
1307
00:37:42,173 --> 00:37:43,091
Or the skull of the victim.
1308
00:37:43,633 --> 00:37:44,676
Again, something you did not
Find
1309
00:37:45,259 --> 00:37:46,010
In the body of stacey miller.
1310
00:37:46,344 --> 00:37:47,095
Is that correct?
1311
00:37:47,345 --> 00:37:47,679
Correct.
1312
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:48,680
Correct.
1313
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,697
Well, thank you very much for
Calling.
1314
00:38:05,947 --> 00:38:07,865
Well...
1315
00:38:08,533 --> 00:38:11,703
I just...I just wanted to set it
All straight.
1316
00:38:11,703 --> 00:38:12,704
I just...I just wanted to set it
All straight.
1317
00:38:13,287 --> 00:38:15,123
Okay. I appreciate that. Thank
You.
1318
00:38:15,832 --> 00:38:17,709
We talked about what to do for
Six months or so,
1319
00:38:17,709 --> 00:38:20,753
We talked about what to do for
Six months or so,
1320
00:38:21,045 --> 00:38:23,715
And then...
1321
00:38:23,715 --> 00:38:26,718
And then...
1322
00:38:27,427 --> 00:38:29,721
Abby and I decided this was the
Quickest...
1323
00:38:29,721 --> 00:38:31,180
Abby and I decided this was the
Quickest...
1324
00:38:31,556 --> 00:38:34,016
Best way to do it.
1325
00:38:34,267 --> 00:38:35,727
Okay...
1326
00:38:36,269 --> 00:38:40,314
And how was that going to work?
1327
00:38:40,565 --> 00:38:41,733
Well...
1328
00:38:41,733 --> 00:38:43,067
Well...
1329
00:38:43,401 --> 00:38:47,155
We set the day...
1330
00:38:47,655 --> 00:38:47,739
And we had this little ceremony
1331
00:38:47,739 --> 00:38:50,575
And we had this little ceremony
1332
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:53,745
Where we renewed our marriage
Vows...
1333
00:38:53,745 --> 00:38:54,746
Where we renewed our marriage
Vows...
1334
00:38:55,121 --> 00:38:57,123
And we...
1335
00:38:57,582 --> 00:38:59,542
Well, you know how they go.
1336
00:38:59,876 --> 00:39:02,253
Yeah, I do. Yeah.
1337
00:39:02,628 --> 00:39:05,757
Well, we did that,
1338
00:39:05,757 --> 00:39:06,340
Well, we did that,
1339
00:39:06,799 --> 00:39:09,719
And I...I got out the gun,
1340
00:39:10,094 --> 00:39:11,763
And then I did...I...
1341
00:39:11,763 --> 00:39:16,309
And then I did...I...
1342
00:39:16,809 --> 00:39:17,769
Yeah, I got out the gun and...
1343
00:39:17,769 --> 00:39:18,770
Yeah, I got out the gun and...
1344
00:39:19,145 --> 00:39:23,775
I shot her.
1345
00:39:23,775 --> 00:39:24,734
I shot her.
1346
00:39:24,984 --> 00:39:26,861
I...I...
1347
00:39:27,445 --> 00:39:29,781
I tried to turn it on myself,
And...
1348
00:39:29,781 --> 00:39:33,534
I tried to turn it on myself,
And...
1349
00:39:33,826 --> 00:39:35,787
It jammed.
1350
00:39:35,787 --> 00:39:38,164
It jammed.
1351
00:39:38,456 --> 00:39:41,292
All right.
1352
00:39:41,584 --> 00:39:41,793
All right.
1353
00:39:41,793 --> 00:39:42,919
All right.
1354
00:39:43,377 --> 00:39:44,837
Okay, so what happened then?
1355
00:39:45,588 --> 00:39:47,799
You picked up the phone and you
Called your children?
1356
00:39:47,799 --> 00:39:48,132
You picked up the phone and you
Called your children?
1357
00:39:48,508 --> 00:39:51,803
Is that what you did?
1358
00:39:52,178 --> 00:39:53,721
Yes.
1359
00:39:54,180 --> 00:39:55,890
So they came on over here,
1360
00:39:56,307 --> 00:39:58,100
They cleaned things up,
1361
00:39:58,810 --> 00:39:59,811
And then what, they came up with
The robbery idea?
1362
00:39:59,811 --> 00:40:01,354
And then what, they came up with
The robbery idea?
1363
00:40:01,646 --> 00:40:04,732
Is that it?
1364
00:40:05,024 --> 00:40:05,817
That's right.
1365
00:40:05,817 --> 00:40:08,069
That's right.
1366
00:40:17,495 --> 00:40:17,829
That was a very hard thing to
Do.
1367
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:23,835
That was a very hard thing to
Do.
1368
00:40:23,835 --> 00:40:24,252
That was a very hard thing to
Do.
1369
00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:27,338
Yes.
1370
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:29,841
Yes, it was.
1371
00:40:29,841 --> 00:40:31,384
Yes, it was.
1372
00:40:31,717 --> 00:40:35,137
Yes, sir, it was.
1373
00:40:35,513 --> 00:40:35,847
A very hard thing.
1374
00:40:35,847 --> 00:40:40,226
A very hard thing.
1375
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:50,945
Did the judge render a verdict?
1376
00:40:51,404 --> 00:40:53,865
Yeah, he did. Um...We lost.
1377
00:40:53,865 --> 00:40:54,699
Yeah, he did. Um...We lost.
1378
00:40:58,661 --> 00:40:59,662
[ knocking ]
1379
00:40:59,954 --> 00:41:01,080
Keys...What?
1380
00:41:01,706 --> 00:41:05,877
Um, judge says there was
Reasonable doubt.
1381
00:41:05,877 --> 00:41:07,378
Um, judge says there was
Reasonable doubt.
1382
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:10,590
Oh, great.
1383
00:41:11,215 --> 00:41:11,883
Well, morris steadman is here to
See you.
1384
00:41:11,883 --> 00:41:12,466
Well, morris steadman is here to
See you.
1385
00:41:12,717 --> 00:41:13,885
Oh yeah?
1386
00:41:14,427 --> 00:41:15,887
Okay, send him in.
1387
00:41:16,554 --> 00:41:17,889
And your dinner date is waiting.
1388
00:41:17,889 --> 00:41:17,972
And your dinner date is waiting.
1389
00:41:18,222 --> 00:41:19,891
Great.
1390
00:41:20,558 --> 00:41:22,685
Hi. I'll be one minute, okay?
You look nice.
1391
00:41:23,144 --> 00:41:23,895
Okay, morris can come in now.
1392
00:41:23,895 --> 00:41:29,025
Okay, morris can come in now.
1393
00:41:29,609 --> 00:41:29,901
- how are you doing, mr. Da
Vinci?.
1394
00:41:29,901 --> 00:41:31,903
- how are you doing, mr. Da
Vinci?.
1395
00:41:32,612 --> 00:41:33,988
Well, not bad. How are you
Doing?
1396
00:41:34,572 --> 00:41:35,907
- fine, thank you. The autopsy
Files.
1397
00:41:35,907 --> 00:41:36,574
- fine, thank you. The autopsy
Files.
1398
00:41:37,283 --> 00:41:38,951
Oh, thanks. Did you go see that
Grief counselor
1399
00:41:39,327 --> 00:41:41,746
Like you promised?
1400
00:41:42,163 --> 00:41:43,706
Yeah. Thanks for that.
1401
00:41:44,415 --> 00:41:46,626
I was also looking over the
Pictures of the fire
1402
00:41:47,293 --> 00:41:47,919
And comparing those to the
Autopsy findings.
1403
00:41:47,919 --> 00:41:49,921
And comparing those to the
Autopsy findings.
1404
00:41:50,713 --> 00:41:51,672
It seems to me that the cuts on
Janie's wrists
1405
00:41:52,006 --> 00:41:53,674
Are inconsistent
1406
00:41:54,342 --> 00:41:55,927
With her breaking the window in
The bedroom.
1407
00:41:56,636 --> 00:41:58,137
They look more like defensive
Wounds,
1408
00:41:58,763 --> 00:41:59,931
As if she was fighting off an
Attacker.
1409
00:41:59,931 --> 00:42:02,308
As if she was fighting off an
Attacker.
1410
00:42:02,850 --> 00:42:03,684
Have you been talking to
Somebody
1411
00:42:04,101 --> 00:42:05,478
About defensive wounds?
1412
00:42:06,062 --> 00:42:07,396
I did find a pathologist in
Seattle
1413
00:42:07,855 --> 00:42:08,898
Who responded to my e-mails,
1414
00:42:09,398 --> 00:42:10,524
And he has some questions, too.
1415
00:42:10,733 --> 00:42:11,943
Oh.
1416
00:42:11,943 --> 00:42:12,526
Oh.
1417
00:42:12,985 --> 00:42:13,861
So I thought I'd tell you,
1418
00:42:14,278 --> 00:42:14,737
Just in case he called.
1419
00:42:15,112 --> 00:42:15,947
In case he calls me?
1420
00:42:16,530 --> 00:42:17,782
Would it make you happy
1421
00:42:18,449 --> 00:42:21,494
If you could talk to the actual
Pathologist
1422
00:42:22,078 --> 00:42:22,912
Who did the autopsy in janie's
Case?
1423
00:42:23,245 --> 00:42:23,955
Yes, it would.
1424
00:42:23,955 --> 00:42:24,455
Yes, it would.
1425
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:26,123
I don't think that'll be a
Problem.
1426
00:42:26,707 --> 00:42:27,416
I think she'll be over in her
Office.
1427
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,668
I'll take you over there right
Now.
1428
00:42:29,043 --> 00:42:29,669
Have you got time?
1429
00:42:29,877 --> 00:42:29,961
Yeah.
1430
00:42:29,961 --> 00:42:32,964
Yeah.
1431
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:35,466
So just give me one second.
1432
00:42:35,675 --> 00:42:35,967
Hi.
1433
00:42:35,967 --> 00:42:37,259
Hi.
1434
00:42:37,843 --> 00:42:39,220
In a few minutes. - I'm- okay.To
Go
1435
00:42:39,762 --> 00:42:41,097
Do you want to wait in my
Office?
1436
00:42:41,514 --> 00:42:41,973
It'll be better for you.
1437
00:42:41,973 --> 00:42:43,265
It'll be better for you.
1438
00:42:43,683 --> 00:42:45,559
How's everything else?
1439
00:42:46,143 --> 00:42:47,436
Well, I've been working a lot
More.
1440
00:42:48,062 --> 00:42:48,980
My brother came out to spend
Some time.
1441
00:42:49,397 --> 00:42:50,982
Oh, there you go.
1442
00:42:51,607 --> 00:42:53,651
I want to thank you for taking
The time.
1443
00:42:54,151 --> 00:42:55,987
Well, it's hard losing someone.
1444
00:42:56,362 --> 00:42:59,991
Yes.
103359
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