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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,001 --> 00:00:03,936 Narrator: In the criminal justice system, the people are represented 2 00:00:03,970 --> 00:00:07,030 by two separate yet equally important groups-- 3 00:00:07,073 --> 00:00:08,938 the police who investigate crime, 4 00:00:08,975 --> 00:00:11,341 and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. 5 00:00:11,378 --> 00:00:13,471 These are their stories. 6 00:00:18,184 --> 00:00:20,379 Please, missus, call the doctor. 7 00:00:20,420 --> 00:00:22,718 Cora, her temperature is down. 8 00:00:22,756 --> 00:00:25,919 - She's not getting better. - Waking her won't help. 9 00:00:25,959 --> 00:00:28,325 A doctor. an ambulance. 911-- 10 00:00:28,361 --> 00:00:30,761 you have to do something. You're being crazy. 11 00:00:30,797 --> 00:00:34,164 I want you to get your things. My husband Will send you a check. 12 00:00:39,672 --> 00:00:41,833 ( car horns honking ) 13 00:00:43,877 --> 00:00:45,174 Help! Police! 14 00:00:45,211 --> 00:00:46,371 Help! 15 00:00:47,714 --> 00:00:49,978 Help! Help! 16 00:00:51,384 --> 00:00:53,511 Please! Stop! 17 00:00:53,553 --> 00:00:55,851 Officer: What do you want. honey? 18 00:00:57,390 --> 00:00:58,857 - Mrs. DriscoII? - Yes. 19 00:00:58,892 --> 00:01:01,122 I'm Officer Barton. this is Officer Giordano. 20 00:01:01,161 --> 00:01:04,289 Your housekeeper says you may have an emergency. 21 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:07,163 Mrs. Amado tends to overreact. 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,465 Do you mind? Could we come in and take a peek at your daughter? 23 00:01:10,503 --> 00:01:12,630 That really isn't necessary. 24 00:01:12,672 --> 00:01:15,869 We'll just be in and out. Excuse me. ma'am. 25 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:18,207 She's been a little feverish. 26 00:01:23,016 --> 00:01:25,143 Lady. this kid can't breathe! 27 00:01:25,185 --> 00:01:28,382 - Giordano: 27 Charlie to Central K. - Dispatch: Go ahead, Charlie. 28 00:01:28,421 --> 00:01:30,685 Did you call it in? 29 00:01:30,723 --> 00:01:34,489 Policy is firm. Only the chief resident-- me-- can call the cops on parents. 30 00:01:34,527 --> 00:01:36,495 Listen. is this kid going to make it? 31 00:01:36,529 --> 00:01:40,795 Strep. fever 105-plus. What kind of parent doesn't know that's life-threatening? 32 00:01:40,834 --> 00:01:43,598 On the record. the hospital's gonna make a formal child abuse complaint? 33 00:01:43,636 --> 00:01:45,627 Yes. Neglect. 34 00:01:45,672 --> 00:01:49,005 You can't do this. I want to take my daughter home. 35 00:01:49,042 --> 00:01:52,671 Mrs. Driscoll. this is Dr. Fisher. the chief resident. She won't authorize a trache. 36 00:01:52,712 --> 00:01:55,180 And if I don't sign an authorization you can't treat her. 37 00:01:55,215 --> 00:01:57,342 This is Sergeant Cerreta and Detective Logan. 38 00:01:57,383 --> 00:01:59,749 More policemen? You're not leaving us any choice. 39 00:01:59,786 --> 00:02:01,777 You seem like a reasonable woman. 40 00:02:01,821 --> 00:02:03,618 You want to tell us what the problem is? 41 00:02:03,656 --> 00:02:05,453 Your husband here tonight. ma'am? 42 00:02:05,492 --> 00:02:08,290 No. he's in Boston on business. 43 00:02:08,328 --> 00:02:11,126 You understand. if the hospital files a formal complaint. 44 00:02:11,164 --> 00:02:12,688 you could find yourself in jail. 45 00:02:12,832 --> 00:02:15,426 You can't force me to let you operate. 46 00:02:15,468 --> 00:02:19,529 Are you serious? These people are trying to save your daughter's life. 47 00:02:19,672 --> 00:02:22,038 Right now I am more concerned about her soul. 48 00:02:22,075 --> 00:02:24,043 Mrs. Driscoll. let us help Dinah-- 49 00:02:24,077 --> 00:02:27,444 You can't help her. We don't believe in modern medicine. 50 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,144 - You don't believe in it? - Our religion forbids it. 51 00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:37,590 Nurse on P.A.: Code Blue. ER Pediatrics. Code Blue. ER Pediatrics. 52 00:02:42,028 --> 00:02:43,825 Dr. Fisher: Excuse me. miss. step back. 53 00:02:43,863 --> 00:02:45,990 Let’s get her in treatment-- 1.3 milliliter FD. 54 00:02:46,032 --> 00:02:48,000 We need a 1/1,000 solution I.V. push, now. 55 00:02:48,034 --> 00:02:49,331 Nurse: Failure. 56 00:02:49,369 --> 00:02:52,861 Dr. Baumann: Let's get a central line in here. Who's the pharmacist? 57 00:02:52,906 --> 00:02:56,000 - Nurse: Now! Now! - Baumann: Let's go with 18 watts per second. 58 00:02:58,578 --> 00:03:01,046 - Nurse: Level off. - Dr. Fisher: Take the mask off. 59 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,071 Clear. 60 00:03:03,116 --> 00:03:04,413 (brief thump) 61 00:03:05,385 --> 00:03:07,376 Still no pulse. 62 00:03:08,321 --> 00:03:10,881 Clear. 63 00:03:10,924 --> 00:03:12,585 Clear. 64 00:03:23,169 --> 00:03:26,070 She wasn't that sick! 65 00:03:41,854 --> 00:03:45,255 She wasn't that sick. 66 00:03:49,596 --> 00:03:53,623 ( theme music plays ) 67 00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:14,439 So? You want to send it to Social Services? 68 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,947 It's your call. 69 00:05:15,982 --> 00:05:18,712 The most we can get her for is endangering the welfare of a child. 70 00:05:18,751 --> 00:05:21,049 No, no-- what we get her for is manslaughter. 71 00:05:21,087 --> 00:05:24,056 Whoa, Mike. Slow down. We don't get her for anything, 72 00:05:24,090 --> 00:05:26,183 you don't prove she knew the kid was seriously ill. 73 00:05:26,225 --> 00:05:28,455 The housekeeper-- what's her name? Amado. 74 00:05:28,494 --> 00:05:31,019 She damn well knew the kid was sick enough to get two cops. 75 00:05:31,064 --> 00:05:32,964 That'll put the parents away for sure. 76 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:34,626 She was fired. She'll say anything. 77 00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:37,431 Getting fired, you think that's a reason to lie about the kid? 78 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:39,734 - Do you believe this? - Hey, what I think, 79 00:05:39,772 --> 00:05:42,138 what you think, what he thinks don't mean diddIy-squat, 80 00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:43,972 because in court she's not a credible witness. 81 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:45,637 "Credible"? The kid died! 82 00:05:45,678 --> 00:05:48,909 Well, well, what's this? Honeymoon over? 83 00:05:48,948 --> 00:05:51,610 When you finish debating her state of mind, 84 00:05:51,651 --> 00:05:53,710 why don't you go ask her? 85 00:05:53,753 --> 00:05:55,983 And see what you can find out about this religion-- 86 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:58,684 "Church of All Saints." 87 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,424 Beautiful child. 88 00:06:03,463 --> 00:06:05,761 Cerreta: You worked for the Driscolls, what, three months? 89 00:06:05,798 --> 00:06:07,891 Mm-hmm. They loved that child. 90 00:06:07,934 --> 00:06:11,426 It was an aura. It radiated from them. 91 00:06:11,471 --> 00:06:14,099 You never saw people who loved a child so much. 92 00:06:14,140 --> 00:06:16,267 - When did she get sick? - Mrs. Amado: Monday morning. 93 00:06:16,309 --> 00:06:18,436 When I came in, she already had a fever. 94 00:06:18,478 --> 00:06:20,708 Mrs. Driscoll, she wasn't worried. 95 00:06:20,747 --> 00:06:22,578 She said she was praying for her. 96 00:06:22,615 --> 00:06:24,139 But you were worried? 97 00:06:25,318 --> 00:06:28,617 My kids, they get sick, I pray for their souls. 98 00:06:28,654 --> 00:06:31,452 Their bodies, I get a doctor-- Oberon Guzman. 99 00:06:31,491 --> 00:06:33,925 I called him and told him the fever keeps going up. 100 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,894 Did you tell Mrs. Driscoll that? 101 00:06:38,998 --> 00:06:42,798 And she told me that sometimes kids 102 00:06:42,835 --> 00:06:45,963 just had to get sicker before the Lord heard their prayers. 103 00:06:48,174 --> 00:06:49,971 You want me to visit a sick child 104 00:06:50,009 --> 00:06:51,977 when the parent won't call? 105 00:06:52,011 --> 00:06:54,138 Logan: When the child's dying? Yes, I do. 106 00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:58,310 My malpractice insurance is already 20 times my rent. 107 00:06:58,351 --> 00:07:02,412 I do not go to any child against their parents' wishes. 108 00:07:02,455 --> 00:07:05,322 Did Mrs. Amado describe the girl's symptoms? 109 00:07:05,358 --> 00:07:08,759 Sore throat, high fever, trouble breathing. 110 00:07:08,795 --> 00:07:11,093 A second-year medical student could have made 111 00:07:11,130 --> 00:07:13,155 an educated guess it was strep throat. 112 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:14,894 Do you consider that major? 113 00:07:14,934 --> 00:07:16,731 Untreated? 114 00:07:16,769 --> 00:07:21,138 It could lead to rheumatic fever, heart disease, death. 115 00:07:21,174 --> 00:07:22,937 So, a parent refusing treatment-- 116 00:07:22,975 --> 00:07:25,637 Would have to be stupid, blind, or negligent. 117 00:07:25,711 --> 00:07:29,010 Or very religious. 118 00:07:29,048 --> 00:07:30,606 ( tower bell rings ) 119 00:07:30,650 --> 00:07:33,949 Our sect is descended from the Swiss Brethren, 120 00:07:33,986 --> 00:07:35,954 like the Amish or the Hutterites. 121 00:07:35,988 --> 00:07:38,115 Except that you don't use doctors. 122 00:07:38,157 --> 00:07:39,954 We've been around for 300 years, 123 00:07:39,992 --> 00:07:41,926 long before modern medicine. 124 00:07:41,994 --> 00:07:45,794 Hold on. You use electricity, central heating. 125 00:07:45,832 --> 00:07:48,960 You were around long before them, too. 126 00:07:49,001 --> 00:07:50,969 Detective, do I really have to defend 127 00:07:51,003 --> 00:07:53,767 my religious beliefs to the police? 128 00:07:55,074 --> 00:07:57,133 Are you arresting Ted and Nancy? 129 00:07:58,444 --> 00:08:00,469 Have they been in your church long? 130 00:08:00,513 --> 00:08:02,743 Ma ny yea rs. 131 00:08:02,782 --> 00:08:05,751 They were members when we were out in Hanover, New Jersey. 132 00:08:05,785 --> 00:08:07,252 They're devout people. 133 00:08:07,286 --> 00:08:09,914 The loss of their daughter was terrible. 134 00:08:09,956 --> 00:08:11,753 But it is God's will. 135 00:08:11,791 --> 00:08:14,259 Most of us don't mind a little help from antibiotics. 136 00:08:14,293 --> 00:08:17,057 But some of us do. 137 00:08:17,096 --> 00:08:19,326 Did the Driscolls talk to you while Dinah was sick? 138 00:08:19,365 --> 00:08:21,697 Ted and Nancy never believed that their daughter 139 00:08:21,734 --> 00:08:24,100 was sick enough to die. 140 00:08:24,136 --> 00:08:26,900 All you have to do is talk to them to know that. 141 00:08:29,108 --> 00:08:31,167 Fanatics. 142 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:33,440 It's not that simple. These people aren't "Moonies." 143 00:08:33,479 --> 00:08:36,539 You go to confession? You take communion? They believe as strongly as you do. 144 00:08:36,582 --> 00:08:39,016 That's crap! How can you compare these wackos to-- 145 00:08:39,051 --> 00:08:40,313 "Wackos"? 146 00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:43,447 A lot of non-Catholics believe it's "wacko" for priests not to marry. 147 00:08:43,489 --> 00:08:47,118 A lot of non-fundamentalists believe it's "wacko" to take the Bible literally. 148 00:08:47,159 --> 00:08:50,822 To the Driscolls, losing this kid's soul is worse than losing her life. 149 00:08:50,863 --> 00:08:54,424 Except we're investigating the death of a little girl, not a soul. 150 00:08:56,168 --> 00:08:58,636 The church doesn't make exceptions. 151 00:08:58,671 --> 00:09:01,265 The rules are God's, not ours. 152 00:09:01,307 --> 00:09:04,071 We don't pollute our bodies. We don't smoke, 153 00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:07,079 we don't use medicine and we don't use doctors. 154 00:09:07,113 --> 00:09:08,774 So if you're having a heart attack, you don't call an ambulance? 155 00:09:08,814 --> 00:09:11,908 Is that so difficult for you to accept? 156 00:09:11,951 --> 00:09:14,419 Excuse me, Mrs. Driscoll, we have to ask. 157 00:09:14,453 --> 00:09:16,580 Did you consider calling a doctor? 158 00:09:16,622 --> 00:09:19,250 I should have prayed harder. 159 00:09:19,292 --> 00:09:21,783 Maybe it's our fault. 160 00:09:21,827 --> 00:09:25,263 It's faith. That's what religion is. 161 00:09:25,298 --> 00:09:28,392 You call that religion? Neglecting a dying child? 162 00:09:28,434 --> 00:09:30,834 Now, you see, I call that irresponsible. 163 00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:32,394 Mike--? 164 00:09:32,438 --> 00:09:34,838 Sorry. 165 00:09:34,874 --> 00:09:36,569 We're used to it. Is that all? 166 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:38,837 There's just one thing. 167 00:09:38,878 --> 00:09:41,278 You were gone Wednesday and Thursday? 168 00:09:41,314 --> 00:09:43,839 I had no choice. 169 00:09:43,883 --> 00:09:47,512 Look, we talked three or four times a day. 170 00:09:47,553 --> 00:09:50,522 Dinah's fever was down, Nancy thought she was better. 171 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:52,649 Our prayers were working. 172 00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:55,022 At any time, over the five or six days, 173 00:09:55,061 --> 00:09:57,029 did you get any help for Dinah? 174 00:09:57,063 --> 00:09:59,531 Of course we did. 175 00:09:59,565 --> 00:10:03,524 Sharon Barlow, she's a church medical practitioner. 176 00:10:03,569 --> 00:10:05,537 Cerreta: Do you have any medical training-- 177 00:10:05,571 --> 00:10:08,199 any chemistry, biology, first-aid, anything? 178 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,903 Church training. Spiritual healing. 179 00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:16,643 Mm-hmm. So, then you're what, a kind of nurse? 180 00:10:21,087 --> 00:10:24,215 You think I don't know what's going on here, Detective? 181 00:10:24,256 --> 00:10:26,884 Your job is to prosecute our church. 182 00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:29,827 If you believed what we believe, you'd understand. 183 00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:32,296 We are trying to find out what you believe. 184 00:10:32,331 --> 00:10:33,821 Help us out. 185 00:10:33,866 --> 00:10:36,232 We treat the sick with prayer. 186 00:10:38,771 --> 00:10:41,239 We tried everything to lower her fever. 187 00:10:41,273 --> 00:10:44,071 We prayed, cold baths, 188 00:10:44,110 --> 00:10:46,738 we fed her, we used rubbing alcohol. 189 00:10:46,779 --> 00:10:49,077 When we ran out, we called the drugstore for more. 190 00:10:49,115 --> 00:10:51,982 - Drugstore? - Which one? 191 00:10:53,619 --> 00:10:55,814 I think I have the receipt. 192 00:11:05,631 --> 00:11:08,293 Tax deduction, huh? 193 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:10,700 What'd those people do? 194 00:11:10,736 --> 00:11:12,704 It was rubbing alcohol, man, not speed. 195 00:11:12,738 --> 00:11:14,365 Hey, look, you remember them or what? 196 00:11:14,407 --> 00:11:16,875 Oh, yeah. Guy opens the door, he's holding a kid. 197 00:11:16,909 --> 00:11:18,877 Two Iadies-- they're picking at each other. 198 00:11:18,911 --> 00:11:20,538 All right, so what did they look like? 199 00:11:20,579 --> 00:11:22,376 This old lady, she's telling the mom, 200 00:11:22,415 --> 00:11:24,383 "Pray harder, the kid will get better, 201 00:11:24,417 --> 00:11:26,544 believe in God," that kind of stuff. 202 00:11:26,585 --> 00:11:29,611 Start again. Praying or fighting? 203 00:11:29,655 --> 00:11:31,885 Fighting, man. Fighting. 204 00:11:31,924 --> 00:11:33,551 Father tells them to keep it down, 205 00:11:33,592 --> 00:11:36,060 gives the kid to the old lady, and he pays me. 206 00:11:36,095 --> 00:11:38,222 - But you kept listening? - I couldn't help it. 207 00:11:38,264 --> 00:11:41,392 The elevator was busted so I had to take the stairs. 208 00:11:41,434 --> 00:11:43,402 Now, the apartment door is still open. 209 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:47,964 Then, the woman, the young one, she jets by me. 210 00:11:50,609 --> 00:11:52,907 Man: 37 apartments. 211 00:11:52,945 --> 00:11:55,743 You think I see everybody who comes and goes? 212 00:11:55,781 --> 00:11:59,148 How long you been on this door, Mike? 31 years. 213 00:11:59,185 --> 00:12:02,348 You know what time every man, woman and child in here pees. 214 00:12:02,388 --> 00:12:05,323 Thursday, 10:00, Mrs. Driscoll. 215 00:12:05,357 --> 00:12:08,349 She ran by crying, face all puffy. 216 00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:11,329 Look, their kid's dead. They don't need more trouble. 217 00:12:11,363 --> 00:12:13,422 Did you see which way she went? 218 00:12:13,466 --> 00:12:15,457 Coffee shop on the corner. 219 00:12:15,501 --> 00:12:18,368 Five foot six? Brunette? 220 00:12:18,404 --> 00:12:20,872 Which one of the four million you have in mind? 221 00:12:20,906 --> 00:12:23,534 She might've been crying. The food here, no wonder. 222 00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:26,136 Elaine! Tuesday night, 10:00, 223 00:12:26,178 --> 00:12:28,373 you see a brunette in here crying? 224 00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:30,882 - What'd she do? - Did you wait on her? 225 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:34,215 I tried to get her to eat something to stop crying. 226 00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:36,312 No sale. Only coffee-- 227 00:12:36,355 --> 00:12:39,085 three cups. Spiked with bourbon. 228 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:48,734 Freedom of religion? That gives you the right to commit homicide? 229 00:12:48,768 --> 00:12:51,498 The penal law allows a single affirmative defense 230 00:12:51,537 --> 00:12:53,232 to endangering the welfare of a child-- 231 00:12:53,272 --> 00:12:56,730 - spiritual healing by an organized religion. - That's in the law? 232 00:12:56,776 --> 00:12:59,574 In '73, Congress passed a child abuse bill. 233 00:12:59,612 --> 00:13:01,842 $85 million to the states. 234 00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:04,349 ATW regulations said any state 235 00:13:04,383 --> 00:13:06,544 without a spiritual healing exemption didn't get money. 236 00:13:06,585 --> 00:13:10,214 This is unbelievable. In New York? 237 00:13:10,256 --> 00:13:11,917 And 43 other states. 238 00:13:11,957 --> 00:13:15,324 But the law says, "endangering." These people let the kid die. 239 00:13:15,361 --> 00:13:20,264 To convict on manslaughter? Couple of steps-- first, convince the jury 240 00:13:20,299 --> 00:13:22,426 not to apply the spiritual healing defense to homicide. 241 00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:25,801 Convince them? Hell, the judge will just tell them not to. 242 00:13:25,838 --> 00:13:29,171 You know juries. They'll do whatever they think is right. 243 00:13:29,208 --> 00:13:32,541 Next, prove the parents didn't believe prayer would work. 244 00:13:32,578 --> 00:13:35,376 Forget that. No matter what we think of their religion, 245 00:13:35,414 --> 00:13:37,712 it's obvious they believed in it and they believed 246 00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:39,377 their kid wasn't sick enough to die. 247 00:13:39,418 --> 00:13:42,512 If we could prove it, then we could prove the manslaughter. 248 00:13:42,555 --> 00:13:44,546 Show they recklessly caused the death. 249 00:13:44,590 --> 00:13:46,581 Great. So we gotta show they didn't believe in prayer 250 00:13:46,625 --> 00:13:48,684 and they knew the kid could die? 251 00:13:48,727 --> 00:13:52,185 Looks like Mom believed in bourbon more than she did prayer. 252 00:13:52,231 --> 00:13:54,062 I thought they didn't drink? 253 00:13:54,099 --> 00:13:57,899 People like this, they start wondering if prayer's gonna do the trick. 254 00:13:57,937 --> 00:14:00,462 What happens? I'll bet you they're not the only ones 255 00:14:00,506 --> 00:14:02,565 ever called God and got his answering machine. 256 00:14:04,877 --> 00:14:07,675 If she was upset enough to break church law on drinking, 257 00:14:07,713 --> 00:14:10,477 maybe she had doubts about spiritual healing. 258 00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:14,247 How are we going to prove that? Subpoena her mind? 259 00:14:14,286 --> 00:14:16,481 Maybe she talked to some of the other church members. 260 00:14:16,522 --> 00:14:18,547 Logan: So maybe we do get a subpoena... 261 00:14:18,591 --> 00:14:20,786 for the church membership list. 262 00:14:20,826 --> 00:14:25,263 "Your Honor, forget the First Amendment, we want a subpoena." 263 00:14:25,297 --> 00:14:27,527 I wouldn't bet the ranch on that one. 264 00:14:27,566 --> 00:14:29,864 You don't get some information on these people-- 265 00:14:29,902 --> 00:14:32,166 how religious they are, what goes on in that church-- 266 00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:34,229 you don't have a case. 267 00:14:34,273 --> 00:14:37,902 What did that minister say? They had all been out in New Jersey? 268 00:14:37,943 --> 00:14:40,969 Hanover. Let's go check out that town. 269 00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:47,719 If they had any doubts about prayer working, they're guilty. 270 00:14:47,753 --> 00:14:51,382 Yeah, I know. I know. It's nice and easy for you and Robinette and Cragen. 271 00:14:51,423 --> 00:14:53,891 What the hell does that mean? You don't have kids. 272 00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:56,554 Look, the adult world is divided into two groups-- 273 00:14:56,595 --> 00:14:59,063 the ones who have kids and the ones who don't. 274 00:14:59,098 --> 00:15:01,328 You can't understand what a parent feels. 275 00:15:01,367 --> 00:15:04,393 And I will guarantee you one thing, they loved that kid. 276 00:15:04,436 --> 00:15:06,427 And if--? 277 00:15:06,472 --> 00:15:08,463 And if they had any doubts about prayer working and we can prove it, 278 00:15:08,507 --> 00:15:10,702 I'll be the first guy out with my cuffs. 279 00:15:12,344 --> 00:15:15,802 Personally? I don't trust a man who never drinks. 280 00:15:15,848 --> 00:15:17,839 But these All Saints people-- 281 00:15:17,883 --> 00:15:21,182 must have been 40, 50 of them-- they were good neighbors. 282 00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:22,517 They all moved out, right? 283 00:15:22,554 --> 00:15:25,182 Everyone knew they weren't gonna stay. 284 00:15:25,224 --> 00:15:28,022 When they came, they didn't buy houses, they only rented. 285 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:30,028 They used an old farmhouse as a church. 286 00:15:30,062 --> 00:15:32,530 Work, commuting. The city, Newark, Princeton. 287 00:15:32,564 --> 00:15:34,691 It tells you they're not gonna put down roots. 288 00:15:34,733 --> 00:15:38,294 Listen, Driscoll-- husband and wife. Ring any bells? 289 00:15:43,108 --> 00:15:45,235 (chuckles) 290 00:15:45,277 --> 00:15:46,710 Chief, you got a newspaper in this town? 291 00:15:46,745 --> 00:15:50,010 Yeah, "Hanover Union." The county weekly. It's right down the street. 292 00:15:50,049 --> 00:15:52,609 City cops? It'll make their month. 293 00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:01,150 "Mabel Gardner, 96, found dead in her living room." 294 00:16:01,193 --> 00:16:03,320 Body wasn't discovered for three days. 295 00:16:04,863 --> 00:16:06,831 The milkman did it. 296 00:16:06,865 --> 00:16:09,333 Makes you want to move, doesn't it? 297 00:16:09,368 --> 00:16:12,394 Anymore of this, and I’m gonna be brain dead. 298 00:16:15,374 --> 00:16:17,604 "Baby died at home." 299 00:16:17,643 --> 00:16:21,443 Daniel Driscoll. Six years ago. Two years old. 300 00:16:22,314 --> 00:16:24,305 The Driscolls wanted a headstone. 301 00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:27,342 We have a park-type cemetery-- plaques level with the grass. 302 00:16:27,386 --> 00:16:29,684 It's a heater look, easier maintenance. 303 00:16:29,722 --> 00:16:32,623 It says here the boy died of influenza. 304 00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:34,182 Anybody do an autopsy? 305 00:16:34,226 --> 00:16:36,353 Nobody thought anything was wrong. 306 00:16:36,395 --> 00:16:38,454 Mm-hmm. "Died at home." 307 00:16:38,497 --> 00:16:40,226 Says the boy is also "survived by an aunt"-- 308 00:16:40,265 --> 00:16:43,200 Eleanor Harding. She owns the stationery store in town. 309 00:16:43,235 --> 00:16:45,726 I thought everybody from the church moved into the city. 310 00:16:45,771 --> 00:16:48,137 Everybody except Eleanor. 311 00:16:48,173 --> 00:16:51,870 "Never showing doubt, never showing fear. 312 00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:54,037 God's will is supreme." 313 00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:57,708 And if you don't believe that, you're a sinner. 314 00:16:57,750 --> 00:16:59,980 Another life, it's behind me. 315 00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:03,250 But there must be reasons why you didn't move with your brother? 316 00:17:06,258 --> 00:17:08,818 Okay, I'll give you one. 317 00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:12,160 Seven, eight years ago, I flew with Ted and Nancy 318 00:17:12,197 --> 00:17:14,825 up to Albany for a church meeting. 319 00:17:14,867 --> 00:17:18,496 We hit a thunderstorm, got struck by lightning. 320 00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:22,166 The plane dropped 10,000 feet. I was terrified. 321 00:17:22,207 --> 00:17:24,402 I thought we were all dead and Ted says, 322 00:17:24,443 --> 00:17:27,105 "We're all in God's hands." 323 00:17:27,146 --> 00:17:28,943 And that made you stay here? 324 00:17:28,981 --> 00:17:32,508 Between you and me, I trusted the pilot over God. 325 00:17:33,886 --> 00:17:36,286 When Daniel died, I joined a group. 326 00:17:36,321 --> 00:17:40,621 We lobbied to have the spiritual healing laws repealed. 327 00:17:40,659 --> 00:17:43,992 Doesn't make for family picnics. 328 00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:46,497 Did you know Dinah was sick? 329 00:17:46,532 --> 00:17:50,161 I called Nancy-- I pleaded with her to go to a doctor. 330 00:17:50,202 --> 00:17:52,227 You didn't call your brother? 331 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:56,867 When that plane was vibrating, 332 00:17:56,909 --> 00:17:59,673 Nancy was scared witless, too. 333 00:18:04,917 --> 00:18:07,283 Are you suggesting we neglected Daniel? 334 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:09,787 Having two children die, it's a terrible tragedy. 335 00:18:09,822 --> 00:18:11,449 It's also terribly long odds. 336 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:13,321 Odds? God doesn't gamble. 337 00:18:13,358 --> 00:18:15,986 What about this fight you and your wife had? 338 00:18:16,028 --> 00:18:18,997 Our religion asks for spiritual progress, not perfection. 339 00:18:19,031 --> 00:18:21,158 Would you mind telling us what it was about? 340 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,191 Did your wife want medical help? 341 00:18:23,235 --> 00:18:25,829 Whatever my wife wanted, I don't have to tell you. 342 00:18:25,871 --> 00:18:27,463 That's the law. 343 00:18:27,506 --> 00:18:30,771 The law also says parents are responsible for their children's welfare. 344 00:18:31,543 --> 00:18:34,171 I've got five. 345 00:18:34,213 --> 00:18:36,738 I couldn't sit by and watch one of them die. 346 00:18:38,383 --> 00:18:40,613 You have anything more you want to ask me, 347 00:18:40,652 --> 00:18:43,177 get a subpoena. 348 00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:47,688 Ted and I had a mild disagreement. 349 00:18:47,726 --> 00:18:50,194 Logan: About Dinah? 350 00:18:50,229 --> 00:18:51,924 Do you have children? 351 00:18:53,465 --> 00:18:56,332 A sick child can make you anxious. 352 00:18:58,537 --> 00:19:00,596 Anxious enough to take three drinks? 353 00:19:02,541 --> 00:19:04,475 Ithought your church didn't allow drinking. 354 00:19:07,012 --> 00:19:08,980 I'm faIIibIe. 355 00:19:09,014 --> 00:19:11,039 God isn't. 356 00:19:11,083 --> 00:19:12,641 Did you want to call a doctor? 357 00:19:12,684 --> 00:19:14,811 Did your husband stop you from that? 358 00:19:14,853 --> 00:19:17,481 (phone ringing ) 359 00:19:23,362 --> 00:19:25,660 Hello. 360 00:19:25,697 --> 00:19:28,257 Yes, they're here. 361 00:19:32,137 --> 00:19:34,162 I will. 362 00:19:34,206 --> 00:19:36,470 I'll see you later. 363 00:19:38,877 --> 00:19:41,505 My husband says that if you have any more questions, 364 00:19:41,547 --> 00:19:44,539 he wants you to call the Reverend Henry Morley. 365 00:19:44,583 --> 00:19:46,574 Spiritual advice? 366 00:19:46,618 --> 00:19:48,779 No, legal. 367 00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:51,084 He'll give you the name of our lawyer. 368 00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:55,989 Go to the D.A.? 369 00:19:56,028 --> 00:19:58,792 With what? We've still got nothing. 370 00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:01,731 She had a couple of drinks. Her sister-in-Iaw thought 371 00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:03,359 she had enough doubts to pressure her. 372 00:20:03,402 --> 00:20:07,532 Drinks? The sister-in-Iaw thinking she might have had doubts? 373 00:20:07,573 --> 00:20:11,031 That's gonna convince a jury? Suppose she called a doctor? 374 00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:12,703 Suppose she did. 375 00:20:12,744 --> 00:20:15,042 There can't be more than 4 or 5,000 in the city. 376 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,378 What do you think, we start with "A" and go forwards, 377 00:20:17,416 --> 00:20:19,213 or "Z" and work backwards? 378 00:20:19,251 --> 00:20:21,219 These people don't have doctors. 379 00:20:21,253 --> 00:20:22,880 Who would they even know to call? 380 00:20:22,921 --> 00:20:24,752 How about 911? 381 00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:27,691 Computer printouts of every call 382 00:20:27,726 --> 00:20:30,320 they promised two years ago. And last year, and this year. 383 00:20:30,362 --> 00:20:34,059 - And now they promise next year. - We'll listen to the tapes. 384 00:20:34,099 --> 00:20:37,466 What's the matter, you fellas can't read? Check your logs at the precinct. 385 00:20:37,502 --> 00:20:39,629 There's nothing in the logs. 386 00:20:39,671 --> 00:20:41,730 2,000 calls a night. 387 00:20:41,773 --> 00:20:43,764 At least they're short. 388 00:20:46,111 --> 00:20:48,944 "Grandma fell down a flight of stairs." 389 00:20:51,583 --> 00:20:53,574 "Daddy's beating up Mommy." 390 00:20:55,621 --> 00:20:57,612 Car accident. 391 00:21:01,026 --> 00:21:03,051 Boiler explosion. 392 00:21:04,563 --> 00:21:06,690 Want to move to a small town in Jersey? 393 00:21:06,732 --> 00:21:08,893 They got a nice police chief there. 394 00:21:10,802 --> 00:21:12,929 Nancy Driscoll? 395 00:21:12,971 --> 00:21:14,962 Ted. 396 00:21:20,746 --> 00:21:22,714 Robinette: What about a jury's common sense? 397 00:21:22,748 --> 00:21:24,545 We can't indict him and not her. 398 00:21:24,583 --> 00:21:26,210 The mother may be morally guilty, 399 00:21:26,251 --> 00:21:28,549 but legally she's got a good case. She seemed to trust in God. 400 00:21:28,587 --> 00:21:31,647 Paul, I'm not St. Augustine. I can't make arguments to a jury 401 00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:33,715 about the number of angels on the head of a pin. 402 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:35,750 But the moral issue is in the law. She keeps her faith, 403 00:21:35,794 --> 00:21:38,058 doesn't call a doctor-- under the law she looks innocent. 404 00:21:38,096 --> 00:21:41,156 Maybe she didn't keep her faith. She ran from the apartment, she drank. 405 00:21:41,199 --> 00:21:43,793 Maybe her crisis of faith drove the husband into one of his own. 406 00:21:43,835 --> 00:21:46,804 If he'd finished the 911 call, the girl might be alive. 407 00:21:46,838 --> 00:21:49,136 Would be. Strep is extremely treatable. 408 00:21:49,174 --> 00:21:51,540 It won't be easy getting a conviction on either one of them. 409 00:21:53,712 --> 00:21:56,579 Adam: Rabbis, priests, ministers-- 410 00:21:56,615 --> 00:21:59,243 I'm debating theology with half the clergy in the city. 411 00:21:59,284 --> 00:22:01,184 Tell them the case isn't about theology. 412 00:22:01,219 --> 00:22:03,210 Tell them it isn't about politics either. 413 00:22:03,255 --> 00:22:06,747 - Driscolls seem like decent people. - I sympathize with them. 414 00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:10,922 Because they're decent, it looks like we're putting religion on trial. 415 00:22:10,962 --> 00:22:13,624 The spiritual healing law shouldn't even be on the books. 416 00:22:13,665 --> 00:22:17,601 Oh, that's beautiful. Suddenly we find ourselves in Utopia. 417 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:19,797 Politics is part of the law, my friend. 418 00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:22,204 You need reminding, spend a day in Albany. 419 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,969 Does this mean we don't want to indict? 420 00:22:24,009 --> 00:22:26,807 You think we have a choice? Do you? 421 00:22:26,845 --> 00:22:30,042 The mother drinking, a case of impaired judgment, 422 00:22:30,082 --> 00:22:32,107 the father, he started to make the call. 423 00:22:32,150 --> 00:22:33,708 If we walk away from it now, 424 00:22:33,752 --> 00:22:37,244 it looks like we never should have investigated in the first place. 425 00:22:39,257 --> 00:22:41,555 Let's go with manslaughter two 426 00:22:41,593 --> 00:22:43,686 and endangering the welfare of a child. 427 00:22:43,729 --> 00:22:46,061 But with a lesser charge, we'll never convict on manslaughter. 428 00:22:46,098 --> 00:22:48,225 What's better? Half a win or none? 429 00:22:48,266 --> 00:22:50,996 But the logic doesn't play. 430 00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:53,061 If they endangered the child enough for her to die, 431 00:22:53,105 --> 00:22:56,506 they're guilty of manslaughter. Illinois, Massachusetts, Florida-- 432 00:22:56,541 --> 00:22:58,668 there isn't a DA that hasn't reached the same conclusion. 433 00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:00,974 Leave both charges and do us all a favor... 434 00:23:01,012 --> 00:23:03,003 take a plea. 435 00:23:03,048 --> 00:23:07,781 Man two, lifetime probation, no jail time. 436 00:23:09,020 --> 00:23:11,682 Bailiff: Indictment number 6432-- 437 00:23:11,723 --> 00:23:14,851 The People versus Theodore Driscoll and Nancy Driscoll. 438 00:23:14,893 --> 00:23:17,521 The charges are manslaughter in the second degree 439 00:23:17,562 --> 00:23:20,690 and endangering the welfare of a child. 440 00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:23,530 Judge: Are the defendants ready to plead? 441 00:23:23,568 --> 00:23:25,035 ( together ) Not guilty. 442 00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:28,039 I'll let you know right up front, Mr. Robinette, 443 00:23:28,073 --> 00:23:29,870 I don't see a big bail number here. 444 00:23:29,908 --> 00:23:32,934 One of the charges is manslaughter. 445 00:23:32,978 --> 00:23:35,208 Yes, I know the seriousness of the crime. 446 00:23:35,247 --> 00:23:37,841 But I'm looking at the other factors. Mr. Carpenter? 447 00:23:37,883 --> 00:23:41,717 We ask the defendants' release on their own recognizance. 448 00:23:41,753 --> 00:23:44,586 Counselor, you know I can't do that either. 449 00:23:45,757 --> 00:23:48,885 Bail is set for each defendant at 25,000. 450 00:23:51,363 --> 00:23:55,732 The tenets of their church vis-a-vis doctors are well known. 451 00:23:55,767 --> 00:23:58,395 The Driscolls have been members for years. 452 00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:00,905 Then why did your client phone 911? 453 00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:03,430 One moment of weakness. 454 00:24:03,475 --> 00:24:05,500 You're a Catholic, do you ever sin? 455 00:24:05,544 --> 00:24:09,036 That's sophistry, Lucius. I'm not here as a Catholic. I'm here as a lawyer. 456 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,015 You're prosecuting Ted Driscoll for making a phone call. 457 00:24:12,050 --> 00:24:14,018 I'm prosecuting Mr. and Mrs. Driscoll 458 00:24:14,052 --> 00:24:16,020 for recklessly causing the death of their child 459 00:24:16,054 --> 00:24:18,022 after he violated his church's teaching. 460 00:24:18,056 --> 00:24:20,684 A child who was born into their faith. 461 00:24:20,725 --> 00:24:23,023 They want to martyr themselves to religion, fine, 462 00:24:23,061 --> 00:24:25,325 but they don't have a right to martyr their child. 463 00:24:25,363 --> 00:24:28,332 Convicting them of manslaughter won't bring Dinah back. 464 00:24:30,235 --> 00:24:33,102 I want sick children to have a chance at medical care. 465 00:24:34,739 --> 00:24:37,333 I'd expect this kind of prosecution 466 00:24:37,375 --> 00:24:39,707 in Arizona, California-- 467 00:24:39,744 --> 00:24:42,178 not in the most tolerant state in the country. 468 00:24:42,214 --> 00:24:45,980 Well, I wouldn't try that tolerance argument in court if I were you. 469 00:24:49,287 --> 00:24:53,383 Just once, for a Iark, could you bring me in on an easy case? 470 00:24:53,425 --> 00:24:56,053 I don't need a psychiatrist for the easy ones, Susan. 471 00:24:56,094 --> 00:24:59,063 You know what kind of jury we want? 12 people with children-- 472 00:24:59,097 --> 00:25:01,497 preferably all of whom have strep throat. 473 00:25:01,533 --> 00:25:03,501 Carpenter's shrink-- Seymour Golden. 474 00:25:03,535 --> 00:25:06,129 - Who's Seymour Golden? - He gets 2,000 a day. 475 00:25:06,171 --> 00:25:08,401 Compared to him, I'm a bargain. 476 00:25:12,878 --> 00:25:16,177 Stone: Have you read about this case in the papers, Mr. Madison? 477 00:25:16,214 --> 00:25:18,512 - Didn't see it. - Heard about it on television? 478 00:25:18,550 --> 00:25:20,381 Like I say, I didn't follow it. 479 00:25:20,418 --> 00:25:23,046 Do you have any strong religious beliefs? 480 00:25:23,088 --> 00:25:25,454 I'm a Baptist. I believe in God. 481 00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:27,481 Thank you. 482 00:25:29,761 --> 00:25:31,854 A Baptist. 483 00:25:31,897 --> 00:25:34,388 You think he'll sympathize with fundamentalists? 484 00:25:34,432 --> 00:25:36,423 He worries me. Makes me nervous. 485 00:25:38,703 --> 00:25:42,195 I think he knows the difference between church and state. 486 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,140 Keep him. 487 00:25:44,175 --> 00:25:46,439 Guys, trust me. 488 00:25:46,478 --> 00:25:48,469 No challenge. 489 00:25:48,513 --> 00:25:50,811 No challenge. 490 00:25:51,816 --> 00:25:53,977 I have two girls, six and 10. 491 00:25:54,019 --> 00:25:56,044 Do you believe parents have the right to care 492 00:25:56,087 --> 00:25:58,214 for children according to their own customs? 493 00:25:58,256 --> 00:26:00,053 I do. 494 00:26:00,091 --> 00:26:01,820 Knowing what you do about this case, 495 00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:04,658 do you think you can be impartial? 496 00:26:04,696 --> 00:26:06,493 I love my children so much, 497 00:26:06,531 --> 00:26:08,499 I can't imagine parents who don't. 498 00:26:08,533 --> 00:26:11,161 In fact, I'm pregnant with our third child right now. 499 00:26:11,202 --> 00:26:13,193 Thank you. 500 00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:18,835 She practically announced she identifies with Mrs. Driscoll. 501 00:26:18,877 --> 00:26:21,311 I know, but I don't think she's gonna like them 502 00:26:21,346 --> 00:26:24,338 watching that little girl's fever go up. 503 00:26:24,382 --> 00:26:27,442 Pregnant mother-- she’ll carry a lot of weight in the jury room. 504 00:26:27,485 --> 00:26:29,476 My research shows that she is gonna go 505 00:26:29,521 --> 00:26:31,853 with the child and not the mother. 506 00:26:33,224 --> 00:26:36,352 - No challenge. - No challenge. 507 00:26:36,394 --> 00:26:39,454 I think the government ought to keep its nose out of my life. 508 00:26:39,497 --> 00:26:42,261 Mr. Nicholas, if it were contrary to your own beliefs, 509 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,861 would you be able to accept the judge's instruction on the law? 510 00:26:45,904 --> 00:26:49,362 I understand the difference between my point of view and the law. 511 00:26:49,407 --> 00:26:51,534 I'll do what's right. 512 00:26:51,576 --> 00:26:53,567 Thank you. 513 00:26:55,747 --> 00:26:58,045 He's got four kids. 514 00:26:58,083 --> 00:27:00,381 He hates authority. It's bad for us. 515 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:10,150 Peremptory challenge, Your Honor. 516 00:27:10,195 --> 00:27:12,993 Four kids? What's your problem with him? 517 00:27:13,031 --> 00:27:15,556 It's a peremptory, Lucius. I don't need a reason. 518 00:27:23,708 --> 00:27:25,699 The tragedy of this case 519 00:27:25,744 --> 00:27:28,679 is the death of Dinah Driscoll, five years old. 520 00:27:28,713 --> 00:27:32,410 A greater tragedy is that her death could have been prevented. 521 00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:36,511 The State will prove that Dinah Driscoll 522 00:27:36,554 --> 00:27:38,920 was ill and in need of medical care. 523 00:27:38,957 --> 00:27:40,948 We will also prove that the defendants 524 00:27:40,992 --> 00:27:43,859 denied her that care 525 00:27:43,895 --> 00:27:46,955 and knew its absence would lead to her death. 526 00:27:46,998 --> 00:27:51,059 During this trial you will hear a great deal about religion. 527 00:27:51,102 --> 00:27:54,868 Nobody's religious beliefs are on trial. 528 00:27:54,906 --> 00:27:57,602 What is on trial here is Dinah Driscoll's death. 529 00:27:57,642 --> 00:28:02,272 Did the defendants violate their parental duty? 530 00:28:02,313 --> 00:28:06,579 Did they recklessly lead Dinah Driscoll to her death? 531 00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:10,479 Dr. Stanback, please tell the court 532 00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:12,922 your profession and current position. 533 00:28:12,957 --> 00:28:14,982 By training, I'm an oncologist. 534 00:28:15,026 --> 00:28:17,051 That's a cancer specialist. 535 00:28:17,095 --> 00:28:21,657 And I'm the chairman of the New York Council on Medical Ethics. 536 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:23,998 Have you written works on the history of medicine? 537 00:28:24,035 --> 00:28:26,902 Yes. I'm the author of two books on this subject: 538 00:28:26,938 --> 00:28:29,930 "The Healer’s Craft" and "Life Before Death. " 539 00:28:29,974 --> 00:28:32,067 Please tell the Court 540 00:28:32,110 --> 00:28:34,738 about the place of spiritual healing in the history of medicine. 541 00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:37,509 Prior to the 20th century, 542 00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:40,541 people were often desperate for any relief from pain 543 00:28:40,585 --> 00:28:43,110 and for thousands of years, naturally, people prayed. 544 00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:46,317 In your expert opinion, does prayer cure disease? 545 00:28:46,357 --> 00:28:49,690 Objection. He's not an expert on prayer. 546 00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:52,856 But he is an expert on disease. 547 00:28:52,897 --> 00:28:54,956 Overruled. The witness may answer. 548 00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:59,594 A virus can't hear a prayer 549 00:28:59,637 --> 00:29:02,197 any more than viruses respond to leeches. 550 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,802 For thousands of years, bacteria and viruses killed people. 551 00:29:06,845 --> 00:29:10,406 Then we developed sulfa drugs and antibiotics, 552 00:29:10,448 --> 00:29:12,541 and people lived. 553 00:29:12,584 --> 00:29:15,678 Stone: Thank you. 554 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,518 I'd say she had to be infected for at least a week. 555 00:29:19,824 --> 00:29:22,987 What did you tell the defendant Nancy Driscoll? 556 00:29:23,027 --> 00:29:24,995 I said if we didn't clear Dinah's lungs 557 00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:27,657 and get her temperature down, she would die. 558 00:29:27,699 --> 00:29:30,827 And how did Mrs. Driscoll respond? 559 00:29:30,869 --> 00:29:33,895 She refused permission for us to treat her child. 560 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,031 Thank you. 561 00:29:40,712 --> 00:29:44,170 Dr. Baumann, how long have you been practicing medicine? 562 00:29:44,215 --> 00:29:46,012 Three years. 563 00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:48,450 Have you seen many strep infections? 564 00:29:49,821 --> 00:29:51,812 Emergency room, you don't see them very often. 565 00:29:51,856 --> 00:29:54,723 - Most people-- - So you're not an expert in strep? 566 00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,660 - Please, I'm a doctor. - Really? 567 00:29:57,695 --> 00:30:01,631 Are you a doctor who can swear Dinah had been infected for a week? 568 00:30:03,401 --> 00:30:05,596 In medicine, nothing is certain, but I know exactly-- 569 00:30:05,637 --> 00:30:08,731 Thank you. No further questions. 570 00:30:10,608 --> 00:30:14,044 What did Mrs. Driscoll say when you suggested she get a doctor? 571 00:30:14,078 --> 00:30:16,205 She told me Dinah was "in God's hands." 572 00:30:16,247 --> 00:30:19,580 Tell the Court why you left the Church of All Saints. 573 00:30:19,617 --> 00:30:22,552 Objection. Relevance. 574 00:30:22,587 --> 00:30:25,283 Your Honor, her experience with the church's doctrine is relevant. 575 00:30:25,323 --> 00:30:29,885 Overruled. I'll allow it. The witness may answer. 576 00:30:29,928 --> 00:30:33,762 I left the church because I'd seen children die. 577 00:30:33,798 --> 00:30:36,062 Thank you. No more questions. 578 00:30:40,939 --> 00:30:44,067 You were raised in the Church of All Saints, correct? 579 00:30:44,108 --> 00:30:46,235 Yes. 580 00:30:46,277 --> 00:30:48,074 And before you left the church, 581 00:30:48,112 --> 00:30:50,307 did you believe in its doctrines? 582 00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:55,112 Isn't it true that four years before you left the church, 583 00:30:55,153 --> 00:30:58,714 you became ill and took antibiotics 584 00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:01,486 because you believed they would save your life? 585 00:31:01,526 --> 00:31:06,429 Yes, that's true. Prayer clearly wasn't working. 586 00:31:06,464 --> 00:31:09,490 So the real reason you left 587 00:31:09,534 --> 00:31:15,404 is because you didn't accept the church's doctrines for yourself. 588 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,567 Isn’t that right? 589 00:31:20,011 --> 00:31:22,445 Carpenter: No further questions. 590 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,846 It's a winnable case. 591 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:27,010 Yeah, listen, Carpenter's ready to deal. 592 00:31:27,051 --> 00:31:29,042 Take a plea while you can. 593 00:31:29,087 --> 00:31:32,181 Only if they agree never to participate in spiritual healing of a kid again. 594 00:31:32,223 --> 00:31:34,248 Does it matter? They don't have any children. 595 00:31:34,292 --> 00:31:36,283 I don't care, Adam. I don't want them 596 00:31:36,327 --> 00:31:38,625 convincing other parents to let their children die. 597 00:31:38,663 --> 00:31:40,654 All right, but don't push it. Forget man two. 598 00:31:40,698 --> 00:31:42,689 Settle for endangering. 599 00:31:43,735 --> 00:31:46,533 You're asking them to turn against their church. 600 00:31:46,571 --> 00:31:49,699 We're offering a plea where they walk away from manslaughter. 601 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:52,073 At the expense of their religious beliefs. 602 00:31:54,445 --> 00:31:56,743 Endangering the welfare of a child. 603 00:31:56,781 --> 00:31:59,944 However, in this plea bargain you agree never to participate 604 00:31:59,984 --> 00:32:02,976 in the spiritual healing of another child. 605 00:32:07,058 --> 00:32:09,788 You can imprison my body, but not my soul. 606 00:32:12,797 --> 00:32:15,322 You know, when I was growing up, my parents told me 607 00:32:15,366 --> 00:32:17,357 about the separation of church and state. 608 00:32:17,402 --> 00:32:20,565 How proud they were of their country. 609 00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:22,903 Do you live in the same country I do, Mr. Stone? 610 00:32:22,941 --> 00:32:25,876 Please, reconsider. 611 00:32:42,427 --> 00:32:44,827 They've made their decision. 612 00:32:46,431 --> 00:32:50,128 And I've made up my mind. I'll see you in court. 613 00:32:56,941 --> 00:32:59,205 I heal with prayer. 614 00:32:59,243 --> 00:33:02,178 - It didn't heal Dinah. - Her fever went down. 615 00:33:02,213 --> 00:33:04,238 And she died. Did you ever go to a doctor? 616 00:33:04,282 --> 00:33:06,944 - No. - Yet you wear glasses. 617 00:33:06,985 --> 00:33:09,852 I saw an optometrist. 618 00:33:09,887 --> 00:33:13,687 Eyeglasses aren't cures for disease, they're aids to living. 619 00:33:13,725 --> 00:33:16,660 So you believe that poor eyesight isn't a part of God's will, 620 00:33:16,694 --> 00:33:18,889 but letting a five-year-old die 621 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:20,921 from something that can be cured like that is? 622 00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:25,459 I move for a mistrial. This questioning on religion is impermissible. 623 00:33:25,503 --> 00:33:28,301 Approach. 624 00:33:28,339 --> 00:33:30,204 Your Honor, we're within the limits. 625 00:33:30,241 --> 00:33:32,266 ( whispers ) Maybe. 626 00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:34,301 I want this thing settled quickly. 627 00:33:34,345 --> 00:33:37,405 You'll have motions in my chambers tomorrow morning at 10:00, 628 00:33:37,448 --> 00:33:39,439 and we’ll discuss them at 1:00. 629 00:33:39,484 --> 00:33:41,884 And hold down the verbiage, okay? 630 00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:45,650 You give me a hundred pages, I'll be very upset. 631 00:33:46,657 --> 00:33:48,648 Court's adjourned. ( bangs gavel ) 632 00:33:50,595 --> 00:33:54,895 Did I misread this? If you did, I misread it the same way. 633 00:33:54,932 --> 00:33:58,265 "U.S. v. Ballard." The Supreme Court says 634 00:33:58,302 --> 00:34:01,396 the truth of their religious beliefs should not be submitted to the jury. 635 00:34:01,439 --> 00:34:06,274 I didn't ask Sharon Barlow whether her beliefs were true... did I? 636 00:34:07,278 --> 00:34:09,838 No, but you did disparage them with your attitude. 637 00:34:11,382 --> 00:34:13,612 My attitude's not in the transcript. 638 00:34:13,651 --> 00:34:15,676 Adam: Gentlemen. 639 00:34:17,622 --> 00:34:19,613 You in the clear? 640 00:34:19,657 --> 00:34:22,455 Carpenter's scared. He knows where your case ends. 641 00:34:22,493 --> 00:34:25,018 If we ever get there. 642 00:34:25,063 --> 00:34:27,463 If we do, we're gonna lose on Nancy. 643 00:34:27,498 --> 00:34:28,760 It could go the other way. 644 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,201 The father, they may feel sorry for. 645 00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:35,102 And the mother, religion or not, 646 00:34:35,139 --> 00:34:37,801 she told the doctors not to operate-- 647 00:34:37,842 --> 00:34:40,834 and she had those drinks. 648 00:34:40,878 --> 00:34:44,678 By the way, Judge Kurland thinks he's William 0. Douglas. 649 00:34:44,715 --> 00:34:48,651 Make your motion simple, or he'll never understand it. 650 00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:54,888 It's a fine line, Mr. Carpenter. 651 00:34:54,926 --> 00:34:57,724 And Mr. Stone crossed it. 652 00:34:57,762 --> 00:35:00,162 The spiritual healing defense 653 00:35:00,198 --> 00:35:02,996 does not give you the right to dissect her beliefs. 654 00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:05,332 Judge: That’s an interesting approach, Counselor. 655 00:35:05,369 --> 00:35:08,338 You want your clients acquitted on the basis 656 00:35:08,372 --> 00:35:10,397 of their belief in spiritual healing, 657 00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:13,001 but you don't want that healing discussed in court? 658 00:35:13,044 --> 00:35:16,013 He can ask whether she believes in God's power, 659 00:35:16,047 --> 00:35:19,710 he cannot imply her beliefs are stupid. 660 00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:22,514 Your clients aren't on trial for their beliefs, they're on trial for their actions. 661 00:35:22,553 --> 00:35:24,544 Their beliefs are action. 662 00:35:24,589 --> 00:35:26,887 Oh, Counselor-- 663 00:35:26,924 --> 00:35:29,358 I'm afraid that's nonsense and you know it. 664 00:35:29,393 --> 00:35:34,387 No, the law allows testimony on the relevance of faith. 665 00:35:34,432 --> 00:35:38,528 The jury hasn't been asked to judge the truth of that faith. 666 00:35:38,569 --> 00:35:41,663 Motion for mistrial denied. We'll resume at 2:00. 667 00:35:41,706 --> 00:35:44,869 On that night, the night before their daughter died, 668 00:35:44,909 --> 00:35:47,343 did the Driscolls argue about treating her? 669 00:35:50,748 --> 00:35:53,717 Nancy said that God had "taken one child from her," 670 00:35:53,751 --> 00:35:56,584 she didn't think she could bear it if He took another. 671 00:35:56,621 --> 00:35:58,748 And how did Mr. Driscoll respond? 672 00:35:58,789 --> 00:36:03,317 I'm not sure. They asked me to leave Dinah's room. 673 00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:05,989 She-- Mrs. Driscoll-- was upset. 674 00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:09,830 After a few minutes, she came out and he followed her. 675 00:36:09,867 --> 00:36:12,165 - And then what happened? - They were shouting. 676 00:36:12,203 --> 00:36:15,798 Then the drugstore delivery arrived. Nancy left the apartment. 677 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,502 Did Mr. Driscoll return to the child's room? 678 00:36:18,543 --> 00:36:20,704 Not right away. He went into the kitchen. 679 00:36:20,745 --> 00:36:23,908 - How long was he gone? - I don't remember. 680 00:36:26,083 --> 00:36:29,348 We offer into evidence People's Exhibit number 14, 681 00:36:29,387 --> 00:36:32,481 an emergency medical services tape recording 682 00:36:32,523 --> 00:36:34,650 on the Tuesday night in question. 683 00:36:34,692 --> 00:36:36,887 And also an affidavit swearing 684 00:36:36,928 --> 00:36:39,920 that that is a copy of the EMS master. 685 00:36:39,964 --> 00:36:42,865 And we request permission to play the tape. 686 00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:45,300 -Judge: Granted. - Thank you. 687 00:36:50,741 --> 00:36:53,039 Recording: - Yes. Hello? - 911 emergency. 688 00:36:53,077 --> 00:36:55,204 - It’s my daughter. - What’s wrong with her? 689 00:36:55,246 --> 00:36:57,544 - She-- please! - What’s the problem? 690 00:36:57,582 --> 00:36:59,982 - She’s terribly sick. - Sir, hello? 691 00:37:00,017 --> 00:37:02,747 - She’s burning up with fever. - Is it going down? 692 00:37:02,787 --> 00:37:05,813 - No, it’s not going down! - All right, this is what I need you to do. 693 00:37:05,856 --> 00:37:09,519 - Nancy: You don’t want this. - Sir, you’ve got to stay on the line. 694 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,018 - Sir, are you there? - (dial tone hums ) 695 00:37:14,031 --> 00:37:17,000 Do you recognize the voice on that tape? 696 00:37:17,034 --> 00:37:19,025 It sounds like Ted Driscoll. 697 00:37:21,706 --> 00:37:23,333 Thank you. 698 00:37:24,542 --> 00:37:28,171 Ms. Barlow, there are background voices 699 00:37:28,212 --> 00:37:30,840 and a great deal of static on that tape, 700 00:37:30,881 --> 00:37:33,509 are you certain that's Ted Driscoll's voice? 701 00:37:33,551 --> 00:37:37,817 No. As I said, it sounds like Ted's voice. 702 00:37:40,491 --> 00:37:43,688 If Mrs. Driscoll was there when he called 911... 703 00:37:43,728 --> 00:37:47,687 Makes your case stronger for both of them. Two parents, joint decision. 704 00:37:47,732 --> 00:37:51,532 The housekeeper, Paul, she hasn't been in court, has she? 705 00:37:51,569 --> 00:37:53,696 And not talking to reporters. 706 00:37:53,738 --> 00:37:55,797 Go see her tonight. 707 00:37:56,807 --> 00:37:59,037 My friends... 708 00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:02,045 they want me to make trouble for the Driscolls. 709 00:38:07,184 --> 00:38:10,620 Was Mrs. Driscoll there when Mr. Driscoll made the call? 710 00:38:11,856 --> 00:38:14,017 I don't hate them. 711 00:38:14,058 --> 00:38:16,925 There's something you haven't told us, isn't there? 712 00:38:19,697 --> 00:38:22,666 They have so much pain already. 713 00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:26,101 It was Dinah. She wanted a doctor. 714 00:38:26,137 --> 00:38:29,300 The child asked for a doctor? 715 00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:31,808 That night, when the other lady was there, 716 00:38:31,842 --> 00:38:33,901 I was in Dinah's room. 717 00:38:33,944 --> 00:38:36,674 Dinah says she feels "so very sick. " 718 00:38:36,714 --> 00:38:40,844 Her friend Susie's mom "gets her a doctor when she's sick, 719 00:38:40,885 --> 00:38:43,353 why can't I get a doctor?" 720 00:38:43,387 --> 00:38:46,515 Mrs. Driscoll told her, "We don't believe in doctors." 721 00:38:53,230 --> 00:38:55,528 She's a tainted witness. 722 00:38:55,566 --> 00:38:59,696 It is grossly prejudicial, not to mention it's hearsay. 723 00:38:59,737 --> 00:39:01,728 Two exceptions, Your Honor. 724 00:39:01,772 --> 00:39:05,799 If he says, "Dying declaration by the victim of a homicide--" 725 00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:08,641 Calm down, Counselor. He hasn't said anything yet. 726 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:12,638 Opinion testimony by a lay witness on the emotional state of Dinah Driscoll. 727 00:39:12,683 --> 00:39:16,585 "Emotional state"? You want her to testify to what the child said. 728 00:39:16,620 --> 00:39:18,611 Anyway, that's no exception to hearsay. 729 00:39:18,656 --> 00:39:22,114 Effect of a verbal act on the parents-- statement not offered for its truth. 730 00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:25,128 You do want the jury to believe it's the truth? 731 00:39:25,162 --> 00:39:28,154 No shouting in my chamber. 732 00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:33,136 I don't like it, Ben. The child obviously can't testify. 733 00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:37,630 Let's face it, it is prejudicial. The witness is not trustworthy. 734 00:39:37,675 --> 00:39:40,974 Not in my courtroom. Sorry. 735 00:39:41,011 --> 00:39:43,343 Would've helped to have gotten it in. 736 00:39:43,381 --> 00:39:45,315 It could've gone both ways. 737 00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:48,512 He said they didn't believe in doctors. But they both made the call. 738 00:39:48,552 --> 00:39:51,817 I don't know. I think the possibility of conviction's on life support. 739 00:39:51,856 --> 00:39:55,257 In the history of your church, 740 00:39:55,292 --> 00:39:59,922 have the attitudes toward spiritual healing ever changed? 741 00:39:59,964 --> 00:40:02,797 We take Biblical injunctions literally. 742 00:40:02,833 --> 00:40:08,032 Have you witnessed successful examples of spiritual healing? 743 00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:11,599 - They're all successful. - Even if someone dies? 744 00:40:11,642 --> 00:40:14,304 Someone lives, someone dies. 745 00:40:14,345 --> 00:40:16,404 It is all God's will. 746 00:40:16,447 --> 00:40:19,575 The soul is eternal. 747 00:40:27,224 --> 00:40:29,215 Reverend Morley, does your church's doctrine 748 00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:32,058 ever allow a doctor to be called? 749 00:40:32,096 --> 00:40:34,394 Only in certain extreme situations. 750 00:40:37,435 --> 00:40:40,871 And Dinah Driscoll's situation was not extreme? 751 00:40:40,905 --> 00:40:43,897 If a mother's life is threatened in childbirth, 752 00:40:43,941 --> 00:40:47,536 midwives or doctors may be called. 753 00:40:47,578 --> 00:40:49,045 And no other situation? 754 00:40:50,114 --> 00:40:51,638 No. 755 00:40:51,682 --> 00:40:54,207 So if I understand you correctly, 756 00:40:54,251 --> 00:40:57,584 when a mother's life is in danger, a doctor can be called, 757 00:40:57,621 --> 00:41:00,488 but if a child's life is in danger, it's allowed to die? 758 00:41:00,524 --> 00:41:02,583 - Objection. - Withdrawn. 759 00:41:02,626 --> 00:41:07,029 Reverend, do you believe that all religious rituals 760 00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:09,032 should be protected by law? 761 00:41:09,066 --> 00:41:10,931 Objection. Relevance. 762 00:41:10,968 --> 00:41:13,163 Overruled. I'll allow it. 763 00:41:13,204 --> 00:41:17,368 I believe that the government should follow the Constitution 764 00:41:17,408 --> 00:41:19,740 and allow us freedom of religion. 765 00:41:19,777 --> 00:41:23,406 So that if a church doctrine called for beating children, 766 00:41:23,447 --> 00:41:26,109 or allowing them to handle poisonous snakes? 767 00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:30,211 What if a religious ritual called for leaving children naked in the snow? 768 00:41:30,254 --> 00:41:32,222 - Objection! -Judge: Mr. Stone. 769 00:41:32,256 --> 00:41:34,850 Your Honor, I'm through with this witness. 770 00:41:38,929 --> 00:41:43,025 Carpenter: Mrs. Driscoll, do you blame yourself for your daughter’s death? 771 00:41:51,775 --> 00:41:54,642 I did what was right. 772 00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:59,445 Maybe ifl had a fuller understanding of God, 773 00:41:59,483 --> 00:42:02,111 Dinah would be alive. 774 00:42:03,721 --> 00:42:05,712 Are you planning to have another child? 775 00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:08,054 Yes. 776 00:42:08,092 --> 00:42:10,287 If your third child became sick, 777 00:42:10,327 --> 00:42:13,319 would you go to a doctor? 778 00:42:15,733 --> 00:42:18,930 Only if spiritual healing didn't help. 779 00:42:18,969 --> 00:42:21,335 Only as a last resort. 780 00:42:23,407 --> 00:42:25,466 Thank you. 781 00:42:25,509 --> 00:42:28,034 No further questions. 782 00:42:29,713 --> 00:42:31,704 Mrs. Driscoll, we've heard testimony 783 00:42:31,749 --> 00:42:33,808 that the night before your daughter died 784 00:42:33,851 --> 00:42:36,149 you and your husband argued about treating her. 785 00:42:36,186 --> 00:42:38,416 - Is that true? - We had a disagreement. 786 00:42:38,455 --> 00:42:40,355 Weren't you shouting? 787 00:42:40,391 --> 00:42:43,258 We may have raised our voices. 788 00:42:43,294 --> 00:42:45,159 Stone: And what did you disagree about? 789 00:42:45,195 --> 00:42:47,925 Calling a doctor. 790 00:42:47,965 --> 00:42:49,694 Did Dinah want a doctor? 791 00:42:49,733 --> 00:42:53,533 She wanted to know why her friends had doctors and she didn't. 792 00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:55,801 And did you want to summon medical help? 793 00:43:01,378 --> 00:43:03,744 No one's faith is perfect. 794 00:43:06,183 --> 00:43:10,017 Ted helped me to recover my sense of faith in God's will. 795 00:43:10,054 --> 00:43:13,114 Answer the question, Mrs. Driscoll. 796 00:43:13,157 --> 00:43:16,092 I'm trying to, Your Honor. 797 00:43:19,163 --> 00:43:23,623 I was afraid... and Ted and I talked. 798 00:43:23,667 --> 00:43:25,794 What did you talk about? 799 00:43:25,836 --> 00:43:29,101 - Mr. Carpenter? - No objection, Your Honor. 800 00:43:30,741 --> 00:43:33,676 The law does not require that the witness 801 00:43:33,711 --> 00:43:36,043 answer questions about her husband, Mrs. Driscoll. 802 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,139 You may answer or not. 803 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:43,777 Ted said he couldn't stand to see me so upset. 804 00:43:50,427 --> 00:43:52,918 He said he wanted to call a doctor. 805 00:43:54,765 --> 00:43:57,427 He started to call for help... 806 00:43:57,468 --> 00:44:00,767 and I told him no. 807 00:44:01,705 --> 00:44:05,869 He was putting his soul in danger to save Dinah's life, 808 00:44:05,909 --> 00:44:08,139 because of my pain! 809 00:44:08,178 --> 00:44:10,874 Just because of me. 810 00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:18,186 Judge: To reach a guilty verdict 811 00:44:18,222 --> 00:44:20,782 on the charge of manslaughter in the second degree, 812 00:44:20,824 --> 00:44:23,452 the jury must find that the defendants 813 00:44:23,494 --> 00:44:28,227 recklessly caused the death of Dinah Driscoll. 814 00:44:29,566 --> 00:44:33,058 As to the charge of endangering the welfare of a child, 815 00:44:33,103 --> 00:44:36,595 I further instruct you that the Church of All Saints 816 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,871 is a well-established church 817 00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:44,210 and you may not consider the prudence of spiritual healing. 818 00:44:44,248 --> 00:44:46,876 Now you may consider 819 00:44:46,917 --> 00:44:51,877 whether the defendants, at the time their daughter was extremely ill, 820 00:44:51,922 --> 00:44:58,418 sincerely believed in the legitimacy of their religion 821 00:44:58,462 --> 00:45:02,626 to cure illness without benefit of medical help. 822 00:45:02,666 --> 00:45:04,793 He buried the distinction. 823 00:45:04,835 --> 00:45:07,827 They'll think spiritual healing is a defense for manslaughter. 824 00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:09,338 Why did he do it? 825 00:45:09,373 --> 00:45:13,173 Eight, nine other state judges frame their instructions the same way. 826 00:45:13,210 --> 00:45:16,179 It practically guarantees acquittal on endangering and manslaughter. 827 00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:18,943 They should acquit on endangering. That's what the law says. 828 00:45:18,982 --> 00:45:21,849 - And manslaughter? - Stone: You think they'll understand the difference? 829 00:45:21,885 --> 00:45:23,944 That's not what worries me. 830 00:45:23,987 --> 00:45:26,683 We know that technically they're guilty of manslaughter. 831 00:45:26,724 --> 00:45:29,887 But does the jury even want to make the distinction? 832 00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:35,460 The defendant Theodore Driscoll, 833 00:45:35,499 --> 00:45:37,524 on the charge of endangering the welfare of a child, 834 00:45:37,568 --> 00:45:39,559 how does the jury find? 835 00:45:39,603 --> 00:45:42,003 We find the defendant not guilty. 836 00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:44,303 Judge: The defendant Nancy Driscoll, 837 00:45:44,341 --> 00:45:47,276 on the charge of endangering the welfare of a child, 838 00:45:47,311 --> 00:45:51,611 - how does the jury find? - We find the defendant not guilty. 839 00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:55,384 The defendant Theodore Driscoll on the charge 840 00:45:55,419 --> 00:45:57,546 of manslaughter in the second degree, 841 00:45:57,588 --> 00:45:59,146 how does the jury find? 842 00:45:59,189 --> 00:46:01,817 We find the defendant... 843 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,825 guilty. 844 00:46:04,862 --> 00:46:06,955 The defendant Nancy Driscoll, on the charge 845 00:46:06,997 --> 00:46:08,828 of manslaughter in the second degree, 846 00:46:08,866 --> 00:46:10,857 how does the jury find? 847 00:46:10,901 --> 00:46:13,893 We find the defendant guilty. 848 00:46:19,209 --> 00:46:21,507 Stone: It never ceases to amaze me. 849 00:46:21,545 --> 00:46:23,536 Juries? 850 00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:25,741 To weed through a complicated legal minefield, 851 00:46:25,783 --> 00:46:27,910 get bad instructions from the judge 852 00:46:27,951 --> 00:46:29,976 and still come up with the right verdict. 853 00:46:30,020 --> 00:46:32,352 What do you think Judge Kurland will give them? 854 00:46:32,389 --> 00:46:34,516 My guess... they won't spend a night in jail. 855 00:46:34,558 --> 00:46:37,356 Then what the hell's the point? 856 00:46:37,394 --> 00:46:40,192 It's on the books, it got press. 857 00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:43,028 Maybe next week, next month, three years from now 858 00:46:43,066 --> 00:46:46,661 a parent will call a doctor 'cause they remember this conviction. 859 00:46:46,703 --> 00:46:50,264 And a child won’t die. That's the point. 860 00:47:01,718 --> 00:47:05,882 ( theme music plays ) 69623

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