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Mary is not the first person
who's been made a saint
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who had difficulties with authorities.
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00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320
To some extent it's almost
a prerequisite for saints
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00:00:15,355 --> 00:00:18,365
that they disturb
the natural order of things.
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00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,140
There is a widespread...
unfortunately widespread... opinion
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00:00:22,175 --> 00:00:25,845
that saints are born saints,
or that they are infallible,
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or they're completely alien
and exempt from any human weakness.
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These conceptions are totally wrong.
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If we talk about heroic virtue,
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well, it means that
you 're not born that way.
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To be heroic, you've got
to battle in some way.
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00:00:40,475 --> 00:00:43,637
So Mary obviously had her battles.
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If we could only remember
we are but travellers here.
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With this thought ever in our minds,
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how easy would the daily trials
of life become to us.
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Great burdens would become
great blessings.
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Grace, found through adversity.
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From early childhood...
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Mary.
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00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,085
...I had a sense of another presence
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that's made everything
that's hard easy.
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If ever there's a taste
of bitterness...
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Yes.
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...something calm and soft
raises my spirit above it all.
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Yes.
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00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,800
At six, she told people that she
had a vision from a beautiful lady
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who told her that she had
a great work ahead of her
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00:02:43,672 --> 00:02:47,405
and that she would be there
to help her and guide her.
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00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,005
And she said that that lady appeared
to her over a period of time.
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00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,800
And at that stage she didn't really
fully understand what it was about,
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00:02:54,835 --> 00:02:57,445
but she wrote about it
when she was 20.
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So there's a kind of a feeling
of fate in that, if you like,
33
00:03:02,771 --> 00:03:07,993
that there was something that
Mary came into the world to do.
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00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,395
Hold on. Here's a corner.
35
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Ew. Makes you sick.
36
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,118
Ew!
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Watch out. Coming through!
38
00:03:33,215 --> 00:03:36,005
Here. Let's cut its head off.
39
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,679
Ew! There's guts
all over the place.
40
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,085
Donald, do you have a kiss for me?
41
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,360
Oh! You don't have a kiss for your
big sister. That's a bit mean.
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00:03:52,395 --> 00:03:54,245
Hey, hey, hey.
43
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,360
Hey,
nobody splashes me, Donald MacKillop.
44
00:03:57,395 --> 00:04:00,280
I'll tell you what I'll have to do
with you... take you inside.
45
00:04:00,315 --> 00:04:03,480
Quiet, you two. I can't think.
46
00:04:03,515 --> 00:04:05,085
Where have you been?
47
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,076
I stopped off at the markets.
48
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,805
What's wrong?
49
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,400
Your father. He's not leaving
Glasgow for another two months.
50
00:04:14,435 --> 00:04:16,485
Has he forgotten?
51
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,715
How can a grown man forget?
52
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,193
What does he say?
53
00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,645
Here. You know what he's like.
54
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,480
A dreamer. Head in the clouds,
head in a book.
55
00:04:30,515 --> 00:04:32,605
Will they take the house this time?
56
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,720
Of course they will.
I've run out of excuses.
57
00:04:35,755 --> 00:04:37,617
Ouch! that hurt.
58
00:04:37,652 --> 00:04:39,282
Didn't touch her.
59
00:04:39,317 --> 00:04:40,913
That's enough.
60
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,800
We can ask Uncle Peter
for another loan.
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00:04:44,835 --> 00:04:47,605
We won't. I'll not go begging again.
62
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,840
Papa's been a bad boy!
63
00:04:49,875 --> 00:04:51,273
Lexie.
64
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,525
I can ask for a month's
advance on my wages.
65
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,920
- That'll give us some more time.
- That won't be enough, Mary.
66
00:04:59,955 --> 00:05:03,754
Mama, there's got to be
something we can do.
67
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,868
Are you ready
for your supper, Master MacKillop?
68
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,792
William, I hope you 're very well.
69
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,880
Thank you, Father. I loved
the sermon this morning.
70
00:05:16,915 --> 00:05:18,325
How kind.
71
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,520
The way you spoke about
the schools for the poor.
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00:05:21,555 --> 00:05:24,645
- Thank you. And you 're Mary...
- Mary MacKillop.
73
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,240
I'm the new governess
for the Camerons. This is Olivia.
74
00:05:27,275 --> 00:05:28,725
- Yes. Yes.
- Jonathan.
75
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,560
How's that Latin
coming along, Jonathan?
76
00:05:30,595 --> 00:05:32,645
He's improving. Aren't you?
77
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,720
Well, you 're lucky
to have a teacher like this.
78
00:05:34,755 --> 00:05:37,720
Why, thank you.
I enjoy teaching very much.
79
00:05:37,755 --> 00:05:39,631
Well, see you next week, then.
80
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,113
Yes.
81
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,080
I think Father Woods
was rather a romantic figure.
82
00:05:47,115 --> 00:05:48,645
Bit of dash about him.
83
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,560
He was a very brilliant man and
he was a man who was multifaceted...
84
00:05:52,595 --> 00:05:54,285
he was a priest, he was a scholar,
85
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,560
he was a botanist,
he was a geologist.
86
00:05:57,595 --> 00:06:00,137
He had a kind of
compelling personality.
87
00:06:00,172 --> 00:06:02,680
And I think he was
probably quite different
88
00:06:02,715 --> 00:06:04,285
to anybody else that was around.
89
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,677
And we must remember,
everybody deserves an edu...
90
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,765
Everybody has a God-given
right to an education.
91
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,840
The future of this country depends
on the education of our children.
92
00:06:16,875 --> 00:06:20,116
If our children remain ignorant,
the whole colony will suffer.
93
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,680
Excuse me, Father.
94
00:06:22,715 --> 00:06:24,445
Mary.
95
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,074
I was asked to bring you this.
96
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,080
It's from my aunt.
97
00:06:30,115 --> 00:06:32,150
How kind.
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00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,120
How are you settling in, then?
99
00:06:37,155 --> 00:06:39,405
- Fine.
- Good.
100
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,085
Father, can I ask you something?
101
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520
- Yes?
- It's about your sermon yesterday.
102
00:06:44,555 --> 00:06:46,192
Yes, of course.
103
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,080
You said that everyone
has the right to an education,
104
00:06:50,115 --> 00:06:52,765
that knowledge can set you free.
105
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,880
But schooling's expensive.
Not everyone can afford an education.
106
00:06:57,915 --> 00:07:02,320
Well, it's a difficult area.
I've thought about it a lot.
107
00:07:02,355 --> 00:07:06,000
Somehow we need schools to be free.
108
00:07:06,035 --> 00:07:08,652
That would solve the problem.
109
00:07:08,687 --> 00:07:11,269
As it happens, I have an idea.
110
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,840
It's not completely practical.
111
00:07:14,875 --> 00:07:16,565
What is it?
112
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,238
A teaching order of nuns.
113
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,700
It doesn't exist yet.
I'm still thinking it through.
114
00:07:23,735 --> 00:07:28,120
They'll teach only the poor
and live like the poor.
115
00:07:28,155 --> 00:07:29,885
It would be the first
Australian order,
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00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,074
uniquely designed for this
impossible, mosquito-ridden country.
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00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,080
I think you can repeat after me.
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Today is St Joseph's Day...
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00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,560
Today
is St Joseph's Day...
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00:07:47,595 --> 00:07:49,817
...19th of March...
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00:07:49,852 --> 00:07:52,040
...19th of March...
122
00:07:52,075 --> 00:07:53,853
...1866.
123
00:07:53,888 --> 00:07:55,631
...1866.
124
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,165
Dearest Mama,
125
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,605
I have long wished
to enter religious life.
126
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,952
The thought of leaving you
gave me much pain and anxiety.
127
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,388
Don't dread the future.
I feel sure you won't have cause.
128
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,879
What appear great crosses
can be great blessings.
129
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,800
Father Woods had a very
attractive personality.
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00:08:41,835 --> 00:08:44,765
And there are stories around
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00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,765
saying that some of the mothers
locked their doors
132
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,360
and wouldn't let their daughters out
when Father Woods was coming
133
00:08:51,395 --> 00:08:53,160
because they were afraid
they would go off
134
00:08:53,195 --> 00:08:55,469
and join the Sisters of St Joseph.
135
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,125
I'm now a sister of St Joseph,
136
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,085
devoted completely
to the work I care about...
137
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,590
the education of children
living in humble circumstances.
138
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,788
My heart is at rest
and my spirit feels free.
139
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,200
They felt that if they
adopted a kind of poverty
140
00:09:21,235 --> 00:09:23,125
where they owned nothing,
141
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,080
where they lived in rented
accommodation and so on,
142
00:09:27,115 --> 00:09:31,039
they were really one
with the poor people.
143
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,160
As sisters, we shall wear
a monogram with three letters, 'J',
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00:09:43,195 --> 00:09:47,950
in honour of Jesus, St Joseph
and St John the Baptist.
145
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,196
To maintain our integrity,
we shall govern ourselves.
146
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,674
We will be responsible
only to our mother general.
147
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,600
Mary and Father Woods chose
autonomy because they needed it.
148
00:10:11,635 --> 00:10:13,765
They were setting up
an Australia-wide order,
149
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,925
which was quite a new concept
in its time, anyway,
150
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,480
and they had to have the ability
to have control of themselves.
151
00:10:22,515 --> 00:10:26,205
They needed to be able
to train their own people
152
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,440
and they needed to be able to move
them round the country as needed.
153
00:10:29,475 --> 00:10:33,000
And the order set out to work
in cooperation with the bishops
154
00:10:33,035 --> 00:10:36,072
but that they weren't
to have the final say.
155
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,845
Very good. Well done, Emma.
156
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,680
Now, where did I put
that providence bag?
157
00:10:53,195 --> 00:10:55,405
Did I put it over... No.
158
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,440
No, no, no. I'm sure I didn't.
I didn't leave it in the box this time.
159
00:10:59,475 --> 00:11:01,032
Oh!
160
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,631
Here you are.
161
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,565
- Thank you.
- Good girl.
162
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,940
Alright. Who else would like a turn?
163
00:11:11,975 --> 00:11:14,280
James, you've had your turn today.
164
00:11:14,315 --> 00:11:16,325
Me. Me. Please?
165
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,876
- Alright, Johnny. You go.
- Why does he always get it?
166
00:11:20,911 --> 00:11:25,393
And I would like you to write
the capital of Queensland, please.
167
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,031
Excuse me.
168
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,880
- Good morning, Sister.
- Good morning.
169
00:11:33,915 --> 00:11:35,525
Governor Daly has instructed me
170
00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:38,440
to bring his grandson,
young Thomas, to join your class.
171
00:11:38,475 --> 00:11:40,725
He's most welcome.
172
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,200
We've heard only the best
reports about your schools.
173
00:11:44,235 --> 00:11:45,997
Thank you.
174
00:11:46,032 --> 00:11:47,760
Hello, Tommy.
175
00:11:47,795 --> 00:11:49,205
Hello.
176
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,565
His name is Thomas.
177
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,400
Thomas.
178
00:11:53,435 --> 00:11:55,755
Follow me, Thomas.
179
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,114
Emma, this is Thomas.
180
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,799
- Here's a slate for you and...
- Excuse me, Sister.
181
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,109
Thomas can't sit there.
182
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,520
He requires special care.
183
00:12:17,555 --> 00:12:19,431
Special care?
184
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,957
Governor Daly would expect him to be
seated separately from the others.
185
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,314
Everyone's equal before God, sir.
186
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,765
We are all equally special.
187
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,640
I'm sure he'll be very happy
sitting where he is.
188
00:12:35,675 --> 00:12:37,685
That's all very well, Sister,
189
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,439
but I know the governor will not
be satisfied with this arrangement.
190
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,560
I'm sorry, sir.
We make no exceptions.
191
00:12:44,595 --> 00:12:46,885
All the children sit together.
192
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,957
I must tell the governor
before we can allow the boy to stay.
193
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,670
We'd love to have
Thomas in our class.
194
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,320
We shall see. Come along, Thomas.
195
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,272
- Good morning, Sister.
- Good morning.
196
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,520
The first thing that happened
was that they were a big success.
197
00:13:06,555 --> 00:13:09,197
They had 60 pupils
in the first school,
198
00:13:09,232 --> 00:13:11,805
and in six months
it had gone to 200.
199
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,640
I think within two years they had
127 nuns running 17 institutions.
200
00:13:16,675 --> 00:13:18,205
They're the bare facts.
201
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,480
So it says that the service
they were offering was needed.
202
00:13:22,515 --> 00:13:25,600
They set out to provide
a basic education
203
00:13:25,635 --> 00:13:27,645
for the children of poor families,
204
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,400
most of whose parents
were illiterate,
205
00:13:30,435 --> 00:13:33,085
and their aim
was to teach the children
206
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,320
to read and understand
an ordinary newspaper,
207
00:13:36,355 --> 00:13:39,045
to write simple letters correctly,
208
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,645
and to do enough sums to be
able to manage their money.
209
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,200
Of course, that's the significant thing
about Mary MacKillop,
210
00:13:47,235 --> 00:13:50,720
that she set up an educational
system that had a curriculum.
211
00:13:50,755 --> 00:13:54,317
Now, it was very
pragmatic and practical,
212
00:13:54,352 --> 00:13:57,880
but that's what she saw
that the poor needed.
213
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,680
What will I say?
214
00:14:07,715 --> 00:14:09,205
Let me show you.
215
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,231
- Always be as friendly as possible.
- Mm-hm.
216
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,040
- Good morning to you.
- Morning.
217
00:14:19,075 --> 00:14:20,485
We're the Sisters of St Joseph.
218
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,120
We were hoping you might have
food to spare for the poor orphans.
219
00:14:23,155 --> 00:14:26,240
No. We got nothing
to give away to no-one.
220
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,840
That was for us. Do you have
anything for the children?
221
00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:37,685
You don't give up, do you?
222
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,633
Thought you nuns were supposed
to be locked up in the convent.
223
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,880
Too many homeless children
for us to be locked up.
224
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,680
Well, I might have
a few scraps to give you.
225
00:14:50,715 --> 00:14:53,069
Humph. Come round begging.
226
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,325
Well, the sisters went begging
227
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,760
because they had
no other way to provide.
228
00:15:02,795 --> 00:15:04,965
Mary had this idea that...
229
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,480
She'd set up what she called
'houses of providence'
230
00:15:07,515 --> 00:15:10,117
and the idea was
that God would provide.
231
00:15:10,152 --> 00:15:12,685
But being the practical woman she was,
232
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280
she gave him ample opportunity
to see that he did something about it.
233
00:15:16,315 --> 00:15:19,845
The order was set up
in a series of small houses
234
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,839
and the nuns often lived
two together in remote areas.
235
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,645
They had to be very
independent people themselves
236
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,499
in order to survive there,
because there was no kind of support.
237
00:15:31,534 --> 00:15:34,319
They didn't have the communication
systems that they have now.
238
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,994
Come on. Get up.
239
00:16:10,475 --> 00:16:12,125
Oh, Sister Agnes.
240
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,525
- Have you got that kettle on?
- Yes.
241
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,680
So she'd get on a horse
and she'd travel for days
242
00:16:17,715 --> 00:16:19,205
to get to visit her nuns
243
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,320
because she always acted
in a maternal way towards them.
244
00:16:22,355 --> 00:16:27,725
Like, she was maternal
and she supported them,
245
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,720
but she supported them to be
independent, not to be dependent,
246
00:16:31,755 --> 00:16:33,205
and that was the difference.
247
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,005
She visited the jails,
the hospitals...
248
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,280
and the Royal Adelaide Hospital
was a place where you went to die,
249
00:16:41,315 --> 00:16:45,280
it wasn't a nice place
like a hospital is now...
250
00:16:45,315 --> 00:16:47,805
and the destitute asylum,
251
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,485
and in those places they met
people who needed care,
252
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,620
young women who had nowhere to go
when they got out of jail.
253
00:16:56,655 --> 00:17:00,720
So they established a refuge
for those women, for street women,
254
00:17:00,755 --> 00:17:04,633
and eventually
for unmarried mothers.
255
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,445
Get up!
256
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,965
They were not like the kind of nuns
257
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,000
that most of those people would have
met at home in Ireland or in Europe.
258
00:17:48,035 --> 00:17:51,277
They didn't stay inside
their big convents.
259
00:17:51,312 --> 00:17:54,485
They went out into
the streets to the people.
260
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,000
The bishop approved
of everything that they were doing
261
00:17:57,035 --> 00:17:59,445
because they could see
that they were doing a good job.
262
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,920
They also had support from across
the religious lines at that stage.
263
00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:06,477
And that's something
that Mary pretty well retained
264
00:18:06,512 --> 00:18:09,000
all through her life
and indeed after her death.
265
00:18:09,035 --> 00:18:11,525
Protestant, Catholic and Jew
266
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,560
would have been the main
categories of people there,
267
00:18:13,595 --> 00:18:16,297
and she got help from everybody.
268
00:18:16,332 --> 00:18:18,965
A few of the upper-class Catholics
269
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,880
were a little nervous
of what was happening
270
00:18:21,915 --> 00:18:23,325
because they weren't quite sure.
271
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,880
It was a little bit different, they
were a little bit afraid of change,
272
00:18:26,915 --> 00:18:31,440
and, "What if it goes wrong?
What if this movement fails?
273
00:18:31,475 --> 00:18:33,845
"What if the Protestants find,"
you know,
274
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,960
"that Catholics aren't quite as good
as we like to pretend we are?"
275
00:18:37,995 --> 00:18:40,560
So although on the one hand
they were very successful,
276
00:18:40,595 --> 00:18:44,075
they also built up a...
277
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,805
...an atmosphere of hostility
over a period of time,
278
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,560
mainly, I think, against Julian
and some of his decisions.
279
00:18:53,595 --> 00:18:56,645
But then that, in turn,
reflected back on the nuns.
280
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,680
When Father Woods started
teaching them how to be sisters
281
00:19:00,715 --> 00:19:03,840
he introduced them to the mysticism
282
00:19:03,875 --> 00:19:07,005
of the medieval saints,
283
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,600
which was something that was
far beyond their ability to cope with.
284
00:19:11,635 --> 00:19:14,765
And so he had some rather
strange things happening,
285
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,880
like because they wanted to please him,
they tried to get visions
286
00:19:18,915 --> 00:19:21,365
and other mystical experiences
287
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,678
such as were described in the books
about these 13th-century women.
288
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,760
So, how have you managed
without me, Father?
289
00:20:02,795 --> 00:20:04,565
Oh, we couldn't
have hoped for better.
290
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,280
12 more girls have joined us
in the last month alone.
291
00:20:07,315 --> 00:20:08,759
That's wonderful.
292
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,200
Young ones are so inspired by you.
293
00:20:13,235 --> 00:20:15,040
What do you mean by that?
294
00:20:15,075 --> 00:20:16,725
Nothing.
295
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,695
- Oh, Mary.
- Oh.
296
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,365
You don't look well.
297
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,165
Mary, I'm profoundly exhausted.
298
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,045
You've been working too hard
while I've been away.
299
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,000
I can't seem to rest while I'm here.
There's too much to do.
300
00:20:33,035 --> 00:20:35,125
Well, then, you must
go away and rest.
301
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,298
The bishop of Bathurst
has offered me sanctuary.
302
00:20:38,333 --> 00:20:41,437
Oh, good. Good.
I can look after things here.
303
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,925
The last few months
have been an absolute torment.
304
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,111
Some of the priests here
don't understand what we're doing.
305
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,160
I have heard some
very strange stories.
306
00:20:54,195 --> 00:20:56,469
Didn't you get my letters?
307
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,540
Our sisters have been accused
of stealing the blessed sacrament.
308
00:21:02,575 --> 00:21:06,840
This is an extraordinary time.
Not everything can be explained.
309
00:21:06,875 --> 00:21:08,525
What do you mean?
310
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,325
Some of the sisters
have been tested.
311
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,796
Their faith in God
has been on show for all to see.
312
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,085
The fire in the convent.
313
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,238
Yes, but it's more than that.
We've been wrestling with the devil.
314
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,792
Father, there...
315
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,876
There are deep, deep dangers
in the spiritual life.
316
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,085
He came again last night.
317
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,540
Sister Angela was
awakened by a devil.
318
00:21:40,575 --> 00:21:43,925
I saw him. He came as a hideous dog.
319
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,880
I threw holy water on him
and, of course, he fled.
320
00:21:46,915 --> 00:21:49,205
But then he stood in the doorway,
321
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,391
abusing me and spitting
at Sister Angela.
322
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,960
She was moaning with the agony
but she remained pure,
323
00:21:58,995 --> 00:22:04,592
like St Teresa,
"To suffer or to die."
324
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,553
It's so hard to be sure
about these things.
325
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,756
You doubt me?
326
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,109
You must rest, Father.
327
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,231
It happens at times that
among nuns you find some types
328
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,645
who are, frankly, hysterical.
329
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,925
That's not very frequent,
but it does happen,
330
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200
and she had the misfortune
among the first group of her sisters
331
00:22:39,235 --> 00:22:43,000
to have two of them
who pretended to have visions,
332
00:22:43,035 --> 00:22:45,645
to have diabolical vexations
333
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,160
and other things like that...
stigmata and all that.
334
00:22:48,195 --> 00:22:49,925
Now, Mary MacKillop,
335
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,400
who was very down-to-earth
and who was a very shrewd person
336
00:22:54,435 --> 00:22:56,957
with regard to
the assessment of people,
337
00:22:56,992 --> 00:22:59,445
was utterly reserved
with regard to this.
338
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,480
But Father Woods, who at that time
had still a great influence, favoured them
339
00:23:03,515 --> 00:23:05,517
and this caused
a good deal of trouble.
340
00:23:05,552 --> 00:23:07,676
In the event,
the two sisters admitted
341
00:23:07,711 --> 00:23:09,765
that the whole thing
had been a fraud.
342
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,720
Mary and Father Woods, I think,
in the early stages were friends.
343
00:23:14,755 --> 00:23:16,485
He was spiritual advisor
344
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,400
and to a certain extent
I think he was mentor.
345
00:23:19,435 --> 00:23:22,205
But that was only
in the early stages.
346
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,645
I think as the religious order
got underway
347
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,960
and Mary took on more
and more responsibilities...
348
00:23:29,995 --> 00:23:31,685
She was 10 years his junior,
349
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400
but she took on a lot of
the administrative responsibilities
350
00:23:34,435 --> 00:23:36,885
and she began to grow in that.
351
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,320
And I have the feeling that Julian Woods
was more of a visionary,
352
00:23:42,355 --> 00:23:44,560
the kind of person
who started things off
353
00:23:44,595 --> 00:23:47,085
but didn't necessarily develop them
354
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,520
and continue them through
in an administrative manner.
355
00:23:49,555 --> 00:23:51,877
I don't think he was
nearly as good at that.
356
00:23:51,912 --> 00:23:54,200
And that's where
Mary came into her own.
357
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,592
The bishop has shown us
generous support until now.
358
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,725
But I fear that these mystical events
359
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,115
have put our entire order
into disrepute.
360
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,198
Certainly the bishop's council
thinks lowly of us.
361
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,519
Ah, Sister Mary, Sister Teresa.
362
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,520
Oh, pray be seated.
363
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,445
Thank you, my Lord.
364
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,800
You'll be pleased to know we set up
four new schools in Queensland.
365
00:24:35,835 --> 00:24:37,525
Oh, very good. Very good.
366
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,645
Is there something I can
do for you, Sister Mary?
367
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,680
My Lord, I'm worried about your
decision to divide the sisters.
368
00:24:46,715 --> 00:24:48,645
Why is that?
369
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,125
We're a democratic order.
370
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,754
It doesn't matter to us what size dowry
a sister brings with her.
371
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:58,880
Your proposal, my Lord,
asks that we make distinctions
372
00:24:58,915 --> 00:25:00,871
between the rich and the poor sisters.
373
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,431
Your sisters, Sister Mary,
have become women of the street.
374
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,080
My Lord, there must
be some misunderstanding.
375
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,360
It appears the devil
has got amongst you.
376
00:25:14,395 --> 00:25:15,845
Please allow me to explain.
377
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,760
In my absence, Father Woods
has been under much duress.
378
00:25:19,795 --> 00:25:23,657
Father Woods is unfit for his duties.
I'll be taking over.
379
00:25:23,692 --> 00:25:27,520
My Lord, you've always
approved of our work until now.
380
00:25:27,555 --> 00:25:29,829
Your sisters can't even teach.
381
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,485
Perhaps you mean the younger ones.
382
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,925
- They're still...
- Your standards aren't high enough.
383
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,800
The younger ones are still in training.
They're only assisting.
384
00:25:39,835 --> 00:25:42,633
I mean no disrespect, my Lord.
385
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,325
I'll examine your sisters.
386
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,989
I'll decide who's good enough
and the rest will be dismissed.
387
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,605
The convent will go
to the Dominican nuns.
388
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,474
A smaller house will be found
for you and your sisters.
389
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,395
We prefer simplicity.
390
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,479
And I want you to teach music.
391
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,195
Music is for those
who can afford a piano, my Lord.
392
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,165
My Lord, would you be kind enough
393
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,685
to write down the changes
you wish to make to the rule?
394
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,440
I'll do no such thing. I'll not
humour the whim of a female.
395
00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:32,798
I made the rule. I can change it
when and as I please.
396
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,831
I know better what is good for
the sisters than you do yourselves.
397
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,240
Mary was bigger than the people
around her quite often
398
00:26:46,275 --> 00:26:50,045
and she just couldn't go along
399
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,360
with forsaking her larger loyalties
for smaller ones.
400
00:26:54,395 --> 00:26:58,377
She would have loved to obey...
and she says this...
401
00:26:58,412 --> 00:27:02,360
even the least of the priests
who were around her.
402
00:27:02,395 --> 00:27:03,965
She would have loved to obey them.
403
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,845
But she found herself
with a crisis of conscience
404
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,111
and she had to work out
where her greater loyalties were.
405
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,165
My Bishop,
it is in the most docile spirit
406
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,078
that I now venture to write
the thoughts of my heart.
407
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,600
From the time I gave myself
completely to this world
408
00:27:26,635 --> 00:27:28,845
I have found true peace.
409
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,919
I want to please you,
but above all to please God.
410
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,709
"I want to please you,
but above all to please God.
411
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,355
"You kindly approved
our rule as it now stands.
412
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,165
"If you should alter our rule,
413
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,239
"I must take the alternative
that you have offered and leave.
414
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,920
"Pardon me if I say that I cannot
in conscience see our rule altered
415
00:27:56,955 --> 00:27:59,309
"and still remain
a Sister of St Joseph."
416
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,765
How dare she?
417
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,873
"I implore your pardon, my Lord,
if I presume too much."
418
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,605
And so where is Sister Mary?
419
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,280
We beg your pardon, my Lord.
Sister Mary's been ill.
420
00:28:29,315 --> 00:28:31,430
She is on her way.
421
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,405
I trust we have not
disturbed your sleep.
422
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,120
Your Lordship, Fathers,
I humbly apologise for my delay.
423
00:28:48,155 --> 00:28:50,765
I've not been well this morning.
424
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,155
Oh, you'll get no blessings from me.
425
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,679
Do not stand!
426
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,565
I hope you 're satisfied,
Sister Mary.
427
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,280
On account of your
disobedience and rebellion
428
00:29:05,315 --> 00:29:08,716
you leave me no option.
429
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,285
I, Bishop Sheil,
430
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,320
through the power invested in me
by the holy church of Rome,
431
00:29:19,355 --> 00:29:24,560
do solemnly declare that you,
Sister Mary MacKillop,
432
00:29:24,595 --> 00:29:26,485
are from this time forth
433
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,400
excommunicated from
the holy Catholic church.
434
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,740
You are now Mary MacKillop,
435
00:29:36,775 --> 00:29:39,725
free to return to the world.
436
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,675
And take your weakness
with you, young lady.
437
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,325
Sister Mary! Sister Mary!
438
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,880
Anyone speaking with this woman
will be excommunicated along with her.
439
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,320
Mary, do something
with your sisters.
440
00:29:57,355 --> 00:29:59,629
Silence!
441
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,635
Don't leave us, Mary.
442
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,231
- Don't.
- Please, Paula, let me go.
443
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,680
Be strong for me.
444
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,549
I really felt
like someone in a dream.
445
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,638
I can't remember the things
that were said to me.
446
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,955
I did not feel alone.
447
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,165
I was intensely happy
448
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,398
and felt nearer to God
than I had ever felt before.
449
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,679
Mary was excommunicated
because, basically,
450
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,880
the clergy could not accept that
the Josephites were proper nuns.
451
00:31:16,915 --> 00:31:19,897
They wanted to fit them
into the mould
452
00:31:19,932 --> 00:31:22,845
of the Irish religious
whom they knew,
453
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,760
and they led the bishop to believe
that he needed to take strong action
454
00:31:28,795 --> 00:31:31,920
because there were some things
that were happening among the nuns
455
00:31:31,955 --> 00:31:34,354
that were not quite right.
456
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,085
My movements are well watched
457
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,000
and the most absurd stories
are going about,
458
00:31:56,035 --> 00:31:58,116
one that I'm dead and buried.
459
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,080
Had it not been for the kindness
of a few who have given me refuge
460
00:32:03,115 --> 00:32:06,005
I would have fled
from this place altogether.
461
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,436
Many of the sisters
have been dispensed or expelled.
462
00:32:10,471 --> 00:32:14,833
I meet with them in secret
so as to avoid scandal.
463
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,725
First of all, she was tossed out.
47 of her nuns followed her.
464
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,280
They didn't have anywhere to live
because they didn't own any property.
465
00:32:31,315 --> 00:32:35,005
A Jewish friend gave
the other nuns a house,
466
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,840
and it should be understood
that Mary was excommunicated
467
00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:42,485
and it was said
468
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,400
that anybody who spoke to her
would also be excommunicated.
469
00:32:46,435 --> 00:32:50,280
So there was a lot of danger
in people even talking to her.
470
00:32:50,315 --> 00:32:53,400
In a paper called
the 'Protestant Advocate',
471
00:32:53,435 --> 00:32:56,085
which was a very strong,
472
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,285
'Truth'-type paper of the day...
473
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,640
And the person
who wrote there claimed
474
00:33:03,675 --> 00:33:06,925
that some of the sisters
were pregnant,
475
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,085
that they were having
a very good night-life
476
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,120
that was being kept pretty,
you know, on the side,
477
00:33:14,155 --> 00:33:15,885
and that, generally speaking,
478
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,280
life in the convent was
a little bit like hell on earth.
479
00:33:20,315 --> 00:33:22,325
And they also claimed
480
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,040
that Father Woods got around
with his head in the clouds
481
00:33:25,075 --> 00:33:27,315
and had no idea what was going on.
482
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,565
"And so, my dear child,
483
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,085
"let us leave each other
alone for a time.
484
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,874
"My work with the Sisters
of St Joseph is over.
485
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,925
"You would get on
much better without me.
486
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,160
"Let us be done with painful
recollections and sad words.
487
00:33:51,195 --> 00:33:54,948
"I am sorry if I have caused you pain.
488
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,353
"It was a sad day for your soul
when you met me.
489
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,751
"I fear it is my misfortune
to do more harm than good."
490
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,160
Certainly, she had
to undergo a number of trials,
491
00:34:17,195 --> 00:34:19,925
and she would not have been human
492
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,405
if she hadn't
greatly suffered from that.
493
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,580
And she did suffer from it,
and understandably so.
494
00:34:26,615 --> 00:34:30,720
But on the other hand,
there is nothing in her make-up
495
00:34:30,755 --> 00:34:32,485
as far as we could ascertain...
496
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,440
I have investigated
this question thoroughly
497
00:34:34,475 --> 00:34:36,605
because it is an important point...
498
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,840
there is absolutely nothing that
would be the slightest indication
499
00:34:40,875 --> 00:34:42,965
that she was revengeful
500
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,949
or that she was embittered against
the bishop or anything like that.
501
00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:58,085
Dearest Mama,
502
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,920
I am quite confident
that the bishop will soon realise
503
00:35:00,955 --> 00:35:02,990
he's been misled about us.
504
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,925
Bishops and priests
have an awful power.
505
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,636
How terrible in the sight of God
it must be if that is abused.
506
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:14,517
I'm not afraid.
507
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,313
I feel protected.
508
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,440
There may be storms
in the life of a saint
509
00:35:30,475 --> 00:35:33,085
but ultimately there must be serenity.
510
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,560
This confidence in God
and this feeling close to God,
511
00:35:36,595 --> 00:35:39,485
and knowing that
He would not abandon her,
512
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,605
that gave her this tranquillity,
this serenity,
513
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,820
and even spiritual joy in the midst
of her tribulation and crosses.
514
00:35:47,855 --> 00:35:52,000
Bishop Sheil was on his deathbed
in a little town south of Adelaide.
515
00:35:52,035 --> 00:35:55,120
He had gone there thinking
that his health might improve.
516
00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:58,760
And some of the priests
that surrounded him,
517
00:35:58,795 --> 00:36:02,197
realising that he was so close to death,
518
00:36:02,232 --> 00:36:05,600
suggested that perhaps
the excommunication
519
00:36:05,635 --> 00:36:10,230
had been a very sad mistake.
520
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,445
During his last days,
521
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,951
Bishop Sheil expressed sorrow for
the injustice of his conduct towards us.
522
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,360
He lifted the sentence
of excommunication from me.
523
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,960
Father Woods was the first person
to suggest that Mary go to Rome,
524
00:36:40,995 --> 00:36:44,857
and the reason for it
was that he felt
525
00:36:44,892 --> 00:36:48,720
that the order
would face more troubles
526
00:36:48,755 --> 00:36:50,205
unless it got the backing of Rome
527
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,360
and became an established order
in its own right.
528
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,440
It is unsafe
in the present state of Italy
529
00:37:12,475 --> 00:37:14,085
to go in religious habit.
530
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,200
There is civil war here
and the church is being persecuted.
531
00:37:18,235 --> 00:37:20,794
I have to travel incognito.
532
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,080
I was so pleased
to see the Holy Father.
533
00:37:59,115 --> 00:38:03,005
He knew that I was
the excommunicated one
534
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,280
but he let me see
that he has a father's heart
535
00:38:05,315 --> 00:38:07,874
when he laid his hands upon my head.
536
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,878
I felt more than
I can attempt to say.
537
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,673
He's much thinner than I would
expect from the photographs.
538
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,680
The pope of the time
had a great interest
539
00:38:23,715 --> 00:38:25,925
in the promotion of social justice
540
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,600
and therefore the project
of Mary MacKillop
541
00:38:28,635 --> 00:38:30,765
immediately appealed to him.
542
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,000
And meeting her personally,
he also got the impression
543
00:38:34,035 --> 00:38:37,072
that she would be able
to carry out this project.
544
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,645
I am much comforted
545
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,160
that the Holy Father thought
that our rule of self-government
546
00:38:45,195 --> 00:38:48,152
must be strengthened
rather than done away with.
547
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,636
This means that we will
be directly responsible to him.
548
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,514
I feel secure that
we're well supported here.
549
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,125
The pope believes that
our vow of poverty is too severe
550
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,240
and that we shouldn't risk being
turned out into the streets again.
551
00:39:19,275 --> 00:39:21,565
He also informed me
552
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,195
that Father Woods can no longer
be our spiritual director.
553
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,795
My dear, dear Mary...
554
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,280
...since you took over the management,
disaster has reigned.
555
00:39:36,315 --> 00:39:40,485
You went to Rome against my wishes
556
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:45,275
and destroyed the poverty and
the simplicity of the sisterhood.
557
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,717
You then had me purposely
removed as director.
558
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,711
You have caused me much
humiliation and suffering.
559
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,920
I therefore decline to renew
any relations with you.
560
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,085
And from that point
561
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,605
it seems that he and Mary
separated from each other,
562
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,120
almost each believing that the other
was out to destroy the work
563
00:40:22,155 --> 00:40:24,045
that they had begun together.
564
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,565
And the sad part of it was that after that,
565
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,120
he became quite vindictive
in some of his behaviour.
566
00:40:32,155 --> 00:40:36,397
And I believe
that some of that reaction
567
00:40:36,432 --> 00:40:40,640
came from the fact
that he really loved Mary
568
00:40:40,675 --> 00:40:43,805
and that he was
grieving for her loss.
569
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,720
I believe that Mary
grieved for his loss too.
570
00:40:47,755 --> 00:40:49,325
I mean, Mary came back to Australia
571
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,158
in the sure knowledge
that Rome backed her.
572
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,805
So she had a place, a central
place to call to, if you like,
573
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,000
knowing that she had got support,
and she played that card very well.
574
00:41:01,035 --> 00:41:03,445
She was actually a very good
politician, you know.
575
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,520
So she played that card very well
right throughout her life,
576
00:41:06,555 --> 00:41:09,205
and she did have a sense
577
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:13,900
that her direct responsibility,
line, was to Rome
578
00:41:13,935 --> 00:41:18,525
rather than to her immediate
superiors in Australia.
579
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,960
Like, there was a hierarchy
and Rome was top of the tree,
580
00:41:22,995 --> 00:41:26,285
in a three-dimensional world, anyway.
581
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,400
I mean, religions are
intermediaries for the divine,
582
00:41:30,435 --> 00:41:33,073
which they sometimes forget.
583
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,165
Thank you, my Lord.
584
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,400
There were
two Quinn bishops.
585
00:41:43,435 --> 00:41:47,437
They were two very strong characters
586
00:41:47,472 --> 00:41:51,440
of the real
hierarchical church mould.
587
00:41:51,475 --> 00:41:53,271
"The bishop is the boss."
588
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,880
Oh, Mother Mary of the Cross.
589
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,880
To what do we owe the pleasure?
590
00:42:09,915 --> 00:42:11,845
I've come in peace, my Lord.
591
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,525
I am sorry, young lady.
I'm in a terrible hurry.
592
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,280
I'd like to discuss your decision
to separate our Queensland sisters.
593
00:42:17,315 --> 00:42:19,748
There is nothing more
for us to discuss.
594
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,040
It will only take a moment, my Lord.
595
00:42:27,075 --> 00:42:29,565
Very well, then. Speak.
596
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,440
We have no argument here if you allow
the sisters to continue as before.
597
00:42:34,475 --> 00:42:36,005
Your sisters are teaching
in my schools.
598
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,780
Therefore they remain under
my authority. It's very simple, really.
599
00:42:38,815 --> 00:42:41,520
They are not the terms under which
we came here in the first place.
600
00:42:41,555 --> 00:42:44,477
And what terms are you
referring to, young lady?
601
00:42:44,512 --> 00:42:47,400
Our sisters are responsible
only to the motherhouse.
602
00:42:47,435 --> 00:42:50,560
Oh. You mean to you, Mother Mary.
603
00:42:50,595 --> 00:42:52,845
In this instance, yes.
604
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,677
But I'm speaking of the principle.
605
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,925
I do not recognise such principle.
606
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,396
If they're separated from us,
they're no longer Sisters of St Joseph.
607
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,005
I think you forget who I am.
608
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,760
You want us to teach the rich
and forget the poor.
609
00:43:08,795 --> 00:43:10,405
That is contrary to our vows.
610
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,805
I've no more to say on the matter.
611
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,400
We can't run an exclusive
boarding school.
612
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,240
The sisters cannot remain where
their very beliefs are being ridiculed.
613
00:43:21,275 --> 00:43:24,017
The sisters will have
no more contact with you.
614
00:43:24,052 --> 00:43:26,760
- They won't agree to that.
- Yes, they will.
615
00:43:26,795 --> 00:43:29,276
Father Woods will
be joining us shortly
616
00:43:29,311 --> 00:43:31,758
and I'm going to make him
director again.
617
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,400
If you do not leave at once...
618
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,280
...I will have you removed.
619
00:43:43,315 --> 00:43:46,115
Good day to you.
620
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,757
The bishop here in Brisbane
has a terrible dislike for me.
621
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,600
Sometimes I get tired
of so much opposition
622
00:43:58,635 --> 00:44:00,591
from people I wish to look up to.
623
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,275
As matters now stand,
Father Woods is not our friend.
624
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,229
I don't like to think
about him at all.
625
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:16,520
What Mary and her nuns
set up in Brisbane
626
00:44:16,555 --> 00:44:18,777
was something that was needed.
627
00:44:18,812 --> 00:44:20,965
The Catholic population there
628
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,200
could see that they were
getting very good service indeed
629
00:44:23,235 --> 00:44:25,525
and they stood by the nuns.
630
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,420
So there was a public tirade
when the controversy blew up.
631
00:44:30,455 --> 00:44:35,245
And he ran a public campaign
against her from the pulpit.
632
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,000
But, I mean, he'd get petitions
with hundreds of signatures on it
633
00:44:39,035 --> 00:44:43,278
from people saying, "Oh, no,"
you know, "they should stay."
634
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,754
I could no longer
argue with the bishop.
635
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,685
Rather than compromise,
636
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:55,918
I have been forced to withdraw the
sisters from Queensland altogether.
637
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,045
Nothing else could be done.
638
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,710
We are all sorry to have to leave
the children without teachers.
639
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,485
She came to be faced
with a situation
640
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,280
which she had to deal with
whether she liked it or not...
641
00:45:20,315 --> 00:45:21,760
and she didn't like it at all.
642
00:45:21,795 --> 00:45:23,245
I mean, she went through
643
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,920
endless physical
and emotional reactions
644
00:45:27,955 --> 00:45:29,725
to what was happening to her.
645
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,860
But again and again and again,
she had to dive down in herself
646
00:45:33,895 --> 00:45:37,960
into the sort of deep well
that she had that was spiritual
647
00:45:37,995 --> 00:45:40,800
and find out what mattered most.
648
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,156
My bodily health is bad...
649
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,634
...but the mental distress is worse.
650
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,235
I'm so weary of the struggle.
651
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,710
I feel utterly alone.
652
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,805
One of her main problems
653
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,760
was that she suffered
from very painful periods
654
00:46:32,795 --> 00:46:36,485
and that for some considerable time
655
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,600
they didn't come once a month,
they came about once a fortnight.
656
00:46:40,635 --> 00:46:44,405
I believe that a lot of this
was stress related.
657
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,560
She was a woman who had tremendous
respect for the bishops
658
00:46:47,595 --> 00:46:51,045
and yet she never
expressed any anger.
659
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,660
I believe that some of it was
the result of repressed anger,
660
00:46:55,695 --> 00:47:00,240
because a good nun doesn't say
nasty things about bishops.
661
00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:01,845
You know, if she'd kicked the cat
662
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,351
or done something like slammed
a few doors, she might have felt better.
663
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,365
And how was your journey, Mother?
664
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,320
Oh, fine. Though I do
get tired of travelling.
665
00:47:14,355 --> 00:47:16,485
I see you've been very busy.
666
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,308
Yes. The new schools
are coming along well.
667
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,405
I am rather worried
about the size of our debt.
668
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,908
- How much is it?
- It's all there on the last page.
669
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,405
- �10,000.
- Mmm.
670
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,645
We've tried to raise funds
but the sisters are too busy
671
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,320
with the schools and the refuge
and everything to go out begging,
672
00:47:37,355 --> 00:47:39,720
and the interest just keeps
growing all the time.
673
00:47:39,755 --> 00:47:41,685
We can't seem to stay ahead.
674
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:45,600
Don't worry, Teresa. You 're doing
a very fine job, really. Very fine.
675
00:47:45,635 --> 00:47:48,645
- Thank you, Mother.
- It's true.
676
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,433
I feel very secure knowing
you 're in charge here.
677
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,520
This is such a small amount
in comparison to the work we've done.
678
00:47:56,555 --> 00:47:58,645
We've achieved an enormous amount
679
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,520
and we couldn't have done it
without borrowing money.
680
00:48:00,555 --> 00:48:02,245
Yes, you 're right.
681
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,720
We'll go through the books this
afternoon and we'll work out a plan.
682
00:48:06,755 --> 00:48:08,950
We've survived worse than this.
683
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,880
It's wonderful to have you
home again, Mother.
684
00:48:13,915 --> 00:48:16,157
I'm happy to be here.
685
00:48:18,435 --> 00:48:20,085
Milk?
686
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,350
Thanks. I'll help myself.
687
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,670
So how's Sister Francesca?
688
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,560
I'm afraid Sister Francesca
has left us.
689
00:48:31,595 --> 00:48:33,357
She's left us?
690
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,965
She's gone.
691
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,525
She sent back her habit
692
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,320
with a note saying she couldn't
wait to be dispensed from her vows.
693
00:48:40,355 --> 00:48:42,285
That's odd.
694
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,217
She's joined Father Woods
in Queensland.
695
00:48:45,252 --> 00:48:48,115
They'd been writing letters
for some months.
696
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,605
I didn't know.
697
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,076
No-one did. It was
all very secretive.
698
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,909
Well, she shouldn't have had
any contact with Father Woods.
699
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,240
They'll be starting
a new order over there.
700
00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:06,005
I wish them well.
701
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,951
It's foolish, if you ask me.
702
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,750
How are the other sisters?
703
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,513
On the whole, very good.
704
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,400
Except for one, Mother.
705
00:49:18,435 --> 00:49:21,205
Who's that?
706
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:23,360
Sister Clare is unhappy.
707
00:49:23,395 --> 00:49:25,316
Sister Clare.
708
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,920
Some people aren't suited
to this religious life, Teresa.
709
00:49:30,955 --> 00:49:33,325
She saying things about you, Mother.
710
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,520
What could she say
that hasn't been said before?
711
00:49:36,555 --> 00:49:39,005
That's true.
712
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,874
It's just that you 're hardly ever
here anymore, Mother.
713
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,718
Some of the sisters
are losing courage.
714
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,360
Bishop Reynolds was a man
715
00:50:03,395 --> 00:50:05,525
who should never
have been made a bishop.
716
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,480
He was not well educated
and he was not a good administrator.
717
00:50:10,515 --> 00:50:13,917
He was a teetotaller,
and he had gone to Rome.
718
00:50:13,952 --> 00:50:17,285
And in Rome he had been
hauled over the coals
719
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,240
about the amount of alcohol
being consumed in his diocese.
720
00:50:21,275 --> 00:50:22,685
"To stop abuses,
721
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,720
"I degree that none
of religious calling in this diocese
722
00:50:25,755 --> 00:50:27,925
"should take drink before dinner.
723
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,238
"I will suspend anyone
found violating this law."
724
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,080
My Lord, I am grateful
you have made time to see me.
725
00:50:41,115 --> 00:50:42,925
You 're welcome, Sister Clare,
726
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,360
but I don't quite
understand the urgency.
727
00:50:45,395 --> 00:50:47,191
It's regarding Mother Mary.
728
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,260
She's acting strangely, My Lord.
729
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,245
Sister Clare, what are you saying?
730
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,475
I've seen her under the influence
of drink, My Lord.
731
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,640
I know the doctor has ordered brandy
for medicinal reasons,
732
00:50:58,675 --> 00:51:02,200
but I assure you Mother Mary
takes liquor to excess.
733
00:51:02,235 --> 00:51:03,872
Are you sure about this?
734
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,638
Positive.
735
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,760
Be very sure about this,
Sister Clare.
736
00:51:09,795 --> 00:51:12,325
I've seen it with my own eyes.
737
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,160
Mary had health problems.
She had menstrual difficulties.
738
00:51:16,195 --> 00:51:18,480
She wasn't the only one
of the nuns that had them.
739
00:51:18,515 --> 00:51:19,925
She had dysmenorrhoea.
740
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,960
And she had alcohol
prescribed for her by a doctor
741
00:51:24,995 --> 00:51:28,245
with the bishop's consent.
742
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,680
That was the cure for dysmenorrhoea
at that time... it was brandy.
743
00:51:31,715 --> 00:51:35,017
We have to investigate
in the causes of saints
744
00:51:35,052 --> 00:51:38,285
every single aspect
in the life of a candidate
745
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,960
and especially the various problems
that have arisen.
746
00:51:41,995 --> 00:51:43,725
If we would have
come to the conclusion
747
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,834
that there was anything wrong
in her behaviour,
748
00:51:45,869 --> 00:51:47,909
we would have stopped
the cause immediately.
749
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,765
"Well, well.
750
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,395
"So your motto is
'Hoodwink the bishop."'
751
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,556
'Hoodwink the bishop.'
752
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,205
"You made a promise
to be open and candid.
753
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:10,997
"Instead, you've kept me in the dark
about your scandalous habits. "
754
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,438
I do not enter
into any explanations.
755
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,871
I simply deny the charges
made against me.
756
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,165
Surely those who know me well...
757
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,272
...surely they can tell
a different tale.
758
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,040
"It is no longer in the interests
759
00:52:34,075 --> 00:52:35,845
"of peace and good order
760
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,920
"that you remain in this province."
761
00:52:37,955 --> 00:52:39,485
Oh, thank you, thank you.
762
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,020
"I could insist upon
your resignation.
763
00:52:42,055 --> 00:52:44,520
"Instead, I notify you,
Mother General,
764
00:52:44,555 --> 00:52:47,605
"to leave at once for Sydney."
765
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,965
All aboard!
766
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,000
Though my character
is at stake here,
767
00:52:53,035 --> 00:52:55,116
I thought it best to be silent.
768
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,000
Several sisters who have professed
love and affection for me
769
00:52:59,035 --> 00:53:00,956
have been insincere.
770
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,960
If they believe
these stories to be true,
771
00:53:03,995 --> 00:53:06,190
they should say so openly.
772
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,280
Right, we'll have you writing, Mother...
there we are... with the quill.
773
00:53:19,315 --> 00:53:21,880
Sister Bernard is now
the mother general of our order.
774
00:53:21,915 --> 00:53:23,405
There. Lovely.
775
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,592
The time will come for me to step down
from the position of superior.
776
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,640
It felt strange to hand over
the responsibility of the sisters.
777
00:53:32,675 --> 00:53:35,359
Alright, hold that, Mother.
778
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:42,245
She was an Irish woman,
upper-class, well educated,
779
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:48,240
very much inclined to go along with
what the bishops wanted,
780
00:53:48,275 --> 00:53:51,005
a yes-woman type of person.
781
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,685
Fairly indecisive,
not willing to make hard decisions.
782
00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:01,280
But, you know, it's very difficult
for somebody who's not a leader,
783
00:54:01,315 --> 00:54:03,357
as Mother Bernard wasn't,
784
00:54:03,392 --> 00:54:05,365
to assume first place
785
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,160
and it's very difficult for
somebody who was an actual leader,
786
00:54:08,195 --> 00:54:09,605
as Mary was,
787
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,085
to assume second place.
788
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:16,620
But according to her letters,
it was a most difficult time for her
789
00:54:16,655 --> 00:54:21,707
and she probably went through
even some crises, really, of doubt.
790
00:54:21,742 --> 00:54:26,725
There's one very sad letter that
she writes to her brother Donald...
791
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,040
and I suppose he was one of the few
people she could confide in deeply...
792
00:54:31,075 --> 00:54:33,725
where she said,
"Look, I really wonder
793
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,160
"ought I ought to leave it all
and go away.
794
00:54:36,195 --> 00:54:37,639
"I've been tempted."
795
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,634
I'm relieved
to be out of Sydney.
796
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,959
Mother Bernard and I have seriously
differed on a number of occasions.
797
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,673
I regret having lost my temper.
798
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,749
My heart sank when I heard the news
of Mother Bernard's death.
799
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,445
It was all very sudden.
800
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,789
I'd not seen her for many months.
801
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,593
May she rest in peace.
802
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,040
The order had
spread to New South Wales, Victoria,
803
00:55:36,075 --> 00:55:38,217
Queensland and New Zealand
804
00:55:38,252 --> 00:55:40,325
as well as South Australia.
805
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,285
It's a little bit
difficult to discover
806
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,605
how many students
they were teaching by 1900,
807
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,111
but I think it would've been
somewhere in the range of 10,000.
808
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,325
This year has been good to us.
809
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,960
We have endured the storms
and grown because of them.
810
00:55:57,995 --> 00:55:59,405
We can see from history
811
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,260
every order doing good work
has been tried, as we have,
812
00:56:03,295 --> 00:56:07,467
and often from within the church
we so dearly love.
813
00:56:07,502 --> 00:56:11,640
Remember, our many trials
have done us great good.
814
00:56:11,675 --> 00:56:13,645
They have strengthened us
815
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,309
and in the end,
they have unified us.
816
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,720
Now, as you know,
the colonies of Australia
817
00:56:20,755 --> 00:56:22,405
have formed one federated country,
818
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,445
and I think we should all
register to vote.
819
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,800
During elections,
consider your choice carefully,
820
00:56:28,835 --> 00:56:31,445
consult whomever you want to
821
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,155
and you 're entitled
to keep your vote a secret.
822
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,485
But remember...
823
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,805
every so-called Catholic
824
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,920
is not always
the best man for the job.
825
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,520
You see, the Italians
have a famous proverb...
826
00:56:51,555 --> 00:56:54,237
"Un santo triste
� un triste santo."
827
00:56:54,272 --> 00:56:56,885
It's difficult to translate that,
828
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,085
but I would say you could
perhaps say in equivalent terms,
829
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,200
"A saint who is sad all the time...
what kind of saint is that?"
830
00:57:05,235 --> 00:57:06,725
And the reason is simple.
831
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,000
I think even in ordinary human life,
832
00:57:10,035 --> 00:57:11,845
you will meet people who,
833
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,680
in their youth maybe
or on other occasions,
834
00:57:14,715 --> 00:57:16,525
have received so much love
835
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,820
and have been able
to give so much love
836
00:57:19,855 --> 00:57:23,080
that ultimately
nothing can ever take away
837
00:57:23,115 --> 00:57:25,753
their final peace of mind.
838
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,960
- How does that feel?
- Fine.
839
00:57:31,995 --> 00:57:33,871
Very hot.
840
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,349
I'll just be close by, Mother.
841
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,676
My health
is increasingly betraying me.
842
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,685
Whilst visiting
our order in New Zealand,
843
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,474
doctors advised me
to take the thermal bath cure.
844
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,879
It does appear that the rheumatism
in my knees has become less.
845
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,238
And the sisters watch over me
as if their lives depended upon it.
846
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,320
Mary became
mother general again
847
00:58:04,355 --> 00:58:06,805
about 10 years before she died.
848
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,960
By the age of about 60, she said
she was beginning to feel old.
849
00:58:09,995 --> 00:58:13,200
Her health was very bad,
she had a series of ailments
850
00:58:13,235 --> 00:58:16,417
and three years after
she became mother general,
851
00:58:16,452 --> 00:58:19,600
she had a stroke which
paralysed her right side.
852
00:58:19,635 --> 00:58:23,485
And... I mean, typical Mary...
853
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,180
she learned to write
and then to type with her left hand.
854
00:58:27,215 --> 00:58:30,840
So her physical body
was giving her great difficulties,
855
00:58:30,875 --> 00:58:34,355
but her spirit remained intact.
856
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,720
There are stories of her
not having money to buy stamps
857
00:59:04,755 --> 00:59:06,685
and there are stories of her habit
858
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,565
being patched and darned
and patched and darned
859
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,840
and, like, if you touched it,
it fell apart irredeemably.
860
00:59:14,875 --> 00:59:16,365
So that poverty thing
861
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,073
certainly followed through with her
right to the end as well.
862
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,430
Today I have been
much better than usual.
863
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,280
I have been waiting
all day for visitors,
864
00:59:30,315 --> 00:59:32,236
but very few came.
865
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,200
Even from my chair,
I can give you my blessing,
866
00:59:38,235 --> 00:59:40,919
which I do with all my heart.
867
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,725
Love one another
868
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,196
and let charity guide you
in all your life.
869
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,954
Do not be afraid.
870
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,805
The surprising thing
when Mary died...
871
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,500
and it's surprising because
it's not usual for Australians...
872
01:00:47,535 --> 01:00:52,160
many people hailed her as being
a particularly holy person.
873
01:00:52,195 --> 01:00:54,045
And there were a stream of people
874
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:59,474
wanting to touch her coffin
with rosaries and pictures
875
01:00:59,509 --> 01:01:04,869
and they spoke about her
in terms of being 'saintly'.
876
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,580
The alcohol issue
delayed the sainthood process
877
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,480
in the same way that
the excommunication issue
878
01:01:15,515 --> 01:01:17,005
delayed the sainthood process.
879
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,280
I mean, here you've got
this woman up for sainthood
880
01:01:19,315 --> 01:01:20,880
and first of all
she's been excommunicated
881
01:01:20,915 --> 01:01:23,177
and now she's up for alcohol.
882
01:01:23,212 --> 01:01:25,405
Inevitably, it puts people off.
883
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,640
Then they start investigating
what the circumstances were
884
01:01:29,675 --> 01:01:32,360
and Mary comes out shining bright.
885
01:01:32,395 --> 01:01:35,125
The process of saintmaking
886
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,165
has to begin on the local level.
887
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,600
The initiative is never taken
by the hierarchy,
888
01:01:41,635 --> 01:01:43,445
nor by the bishop, nor by the pope.
889
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,820
The initiative has to
come from the people.
890
01:01:45,855 --> 01:01:48,160
A number of witnesses
have to be heard,
891
01:01:48,195 --> 01:01:49,885
documents have to be collected,
892
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,920
the writings of the person
in question have to be examined.
893
01:01:52,955 --> 01:01:56,037
Therefore, all possible
means have to be used
894
01:01:56,072 --> 01:01:59,085
to collect all the materials
that are available
895
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,320
and can be useful for the future
discussions here in Rome.
896
01:02:02,355 --> 01:02:05,045
Therefore, the material
submitted to the judges
897
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,440
comprehends far more than
1,000 closely printed pages.
898
01:02:09,475 --> 01:02:10,885
And from these pages,
899
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,960
it results that really
she practised the Christian virtues,
900
01:02:14,995 --> 01:02:17,925
she lived a Christian life
in an exemplary way.
901
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,640
And therefore, before proceeding to
the beatification or canonisation,
902
01:02:22,675 --> 01:02:25,325
the church requires a divine sign
903
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,600
which according to the actual
legislation of the church
904
01:02:29,635 --> 01:02:31,685
is a miracle.
905
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,280
Now, a miracle is a special
intervention of God
906
01:02:35,315 --> 01:02:37,919
in the history of mankind.
907
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,645
I'll give you a concrete example
908
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,320
referring to the cause
of Mary MacKillop.
909
01:02:43,355 --> 01:02:46,045
30 years ago in Australia,
910
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,485
a lady was given up by the doctors
911
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,565
because she was
affected by leukaemia.
912
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,360
She was treated by
excellent doctors in Australia
913
01:02:55,395 --> 01:02:58,285
and they gave no hope whatsoever.
914
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,108
She was completely given up,
ready to die.
915
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,885
Mother Mary MacKillop,
we pray for your intercession.
916
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,800
Mother Mary MacKillop,
we pray for your intercession.
917
01:03:12,835 --> 01:03:15,165
Please help Margaret
recover from this illness.
918
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,020
Please help Margaret
recover from this illness.
919
01:03:18,055 --> 01:03:20,840
Mother Mary MacKillop,
we pray for your intercession.
920
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,680
Please help our friend
recover from her illness.
921
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,080
This woman suddenly
was completely cured.
922
01:04:10,115 --> 01:04:12,205
This was 30 years ago.
923
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,520
She has now six children,
healthy children,
924
01:04:15,555 --> 01:04:17,685
a number of...
925
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,040
She is a grandmother
several times over.
926
01:04:21,075 --> 01:04:23,045
The doctors in Australia,
927
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,605
specialists, Catholic
and non-Catholics alike,
928
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,960
our medical board here in Rome
who are highly trained specialists,
929
01:04:30,995 --> 01:04:35,160
university professors,
heads of departments
930
01:04:35,195 --> 01:04:37,645
in the major hospitals here in Rome...
931
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:42,820
nobody can give us a medical
explanation of such a cure.
932
01:04:42,855 --> 01:04:47,960
I think saints can have
a great impact on our lives,
933
01:04:47,995 --> 01:04:50,725
but I think it's, um...
934
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,365
...it is how we view them,
in a sense.
935
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,800
If we view saints somewhat like
somebody from the Middle Ages
936
01:04:57,835 --> 01:04:59,325
that we have up on a shelf
937
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,245
and every now and then
we dust them down
938
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,365
or put a candle
in front of them and flowers,
939
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,880
well, they're not going to have
a lot of impact on us.
940
01:05:05,915 --> 01:05:08,725
I think of her
as a plain saint, you see,
941
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,485
because she is a person
whose life you can identify with
942
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,920
and she's been through the mill
and you can see how she handled it.
943
01:05:15,955 --> 01:05:19,320
One of the ways that she handled it
that I think is very important
944
01:05:19,355 --> 01:05:23,480
is that she kept herself open
as a human being.
945
01:05:23,515 --> 01:05:25,125
She kept her heart open
946
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,440
even in the midst of the hells
that she was going through
947
01:05:28,475 --> 01:05:32,765
and she remained bigger
than her circumstance.
948
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,640
And to a certain extent,
she kept contact with two worlds.
949
01:05:37,675 --> 01:05:42,097
She lived in the circumstance
of this one,
950
01:05:42,132 --> 01:05:45,566
but she called on
spiritual help and strength
951
01:05:45,601 --> 01:05:49,000
from the world that is
beyond time and space,
952
01:05:49,035 --> 01:05:51,673
the larger reality
to which we belong.
953
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,480
I have always felt
the compassionate presence
954
01:07:52,515 --> 01:07:54,550
of eternal love.
955
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,085
When storms rage,
956
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,765
when persecutions threaten,
957
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,725
I quietly creep into its deep abyss
958
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,920
and securely sheltered there,
my soul is in peace
959
01:08:08,955 --> 01:08:12,080
though my body is tossed
upon the stormy waves
960
01:08:12,115 --> 01:08:14,913
of a cold and selfish world.
961
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,125
If our intention is pure
962
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,680
and we have charity in our hearts,
963
01:08:22,715 --> 01:08:25,114
we need never fear.
78484
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