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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,440 Mary is not the first person who's been made a saint 2 00:00:09,475 --> 00:00:11,525 who had difficulties with authorities. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320 To some extent it's almost a prerequisite for saints 4 00:00:15,355 --> 00:00:18,365 that they disturb the natural order of things. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,140 There is a widespread... unfortunately widespread... opinion 6 00:00:22,175 --> 00:00:25,845 that saints are born saints, or that they are infallible, 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,000 or they're completely alien and exempt from any human weakness. 8 00:00:30,035 --> 00:00:32,120 These conceptions are totally wrong. 9 00:00:32,155 --> 00:00:34,405 If we talk about heroic virtue, 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,440 well, it means that you 're not born that way. 11 00:00:37,475 --> 00:00:40,440 To be heroic, you've got to battle in some way. 12 00:00:40,475 --> 00:00:43,637 So Mary obviously had her battles. 13 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,120 If we could only remember we are but travellers here. 14 00:01:43,155 --> 00:01:45,565 With this thought ever in our minds, 15 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,040 how easy would the daily trials of life become to us. 16 00:01:49,075 --> 00:01:52,480 Great burdens would become great blessings. 17 00:01:52,515 --> 00:01:57,634 Grace, found through adversity. 18 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,280 From early childhood... 19 00:02:17,315 --> 00:02:18,365 Mary. 20 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,085 ...I had a sense of another presence 21 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,120 that's made everything that's hard easy. 22 00:02:23,155 --> 00:02:26,120 If ever there's a taste of bitterness... 23 00:02:26,155 --> 00:02:27,565 Yes. 24 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,832 ...something calm and soft raises my spirit above it all. 25 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,685 Yes. 26 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,800 At six, she told people that she had a vision from a beautiful lady 27 00:02:39,835 --> 00:02:43,637 who told her that she had a great work ahead of her 28 00:02:43,672 --> 00:02:47,405 and that she would be there to help her and guide her. 29 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,005 And she said that that lady appeared to her over a period of time. 30 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,800 And at that stage she didn't really fully understand what it was about, 31 00:02:54,835 --> 00:02:57,445 but she wrote about it when she was 20. 32 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,736 So there's a kind of a feeling of fate in that, if you like, 33 00:03:02,771 --> 00:03:07,993 that there was something that Mary came into the world to do. 34 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,395 Hold on. Here's a corner. 35 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,796 Ew. Makes you sick. 36 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,118 Ew! 37 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,180 Watch out. Coming through! 38 00:03:33,215 --> 00:03:36,005 Here. Let's cut its head off. 39 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,679 Ew! There's guts all over the place. 40 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,085 Donald, do you have a kiss for me? 41 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,360 Oh! You don't have a kiss for your big sister. That's a bit mean. 42 00:03:52,395 --> 00:03:54,245 Hey, hey, hey. 43 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,360 Hey, nobody splashes me, Donald MacKillop. 44 00:03:57,395 --> 00:04:00,280 I'll tell you what I'll have to do with you... take you inside. 45 00:04:00,315 --> 00:04:03,480 Quiet, you two. I can't think. 46 00:04:03,515 --> 00:04:05,085 Where have you been? 47 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,076 I stopped off at the markets. 48 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:09,805 What's wrong? 49 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,400 Your father. He's not leaving Glasgow for another two months. 50 00:04:14,435 --> 00:04:16,485 Has he forgotten? 51 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,715 How can a grown man forget? 52 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,193 What does he say? 53 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,645 Here. You know what he's like. 54 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,480 A dreamer. Head in the clouds, head in a book. 55 00:04:30,515 --> 00:04:32,605 Will they take the house this time? 56 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,720 Of course they will. I've run out of excuses. 57 00:04:35,755 --> 00:04:37,617 Ouch! that hurt. 58 00:04:37,652 --> 00:04:39,282 Didn't touch her. 59 00:04:39,317 --> 00:04:40,913 That's enough. 60 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,800 We can ask Uncle Peter for another loan. 61 00:04:44,835 --> 00:04:47,605 We won't. I'll not go begging again. 62 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,840 Papa's been a bad boy! 63 00:04:49,875 --> 00:04:51,273 Lexie. 64 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,525 I can ask for a month's advance on my wages. 65 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,920 - That'll give us some more time. - That won't be enough, Mary. 66 00:04:59,955 --> 00:05:03,754 Mama, there's got to be something we can do. 67 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,868 Are you ready for your supper, Master MacKillop? 68 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,792 William, I hope you 're very well. 69 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,880 Thank you, Father. I loved the sermon this morning. 70 00:05:16,915 --> 00:05:18,325 How kind. 71 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,520 The way you spoke about the schools for the poor. 72 00:05:21,555 --> 00:05:24,645 - Thank you. And you 're Mary... - Mary MacKillop. 73 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,240 I'm the new governess for the Camerons. This is Olivia. 74 00:05:27,275 --> 00:05:28,725 - Yes. Yes. - Jonathan. 75 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,560 How's that Latin coming along, Jonathan? 76 00:05:30,595 --> 00:05:32,645 He's improving. Aren't you? 77 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,720 Well, you 're lucky to have a teacher like this. 78 00:05:34,755 --> 00:05:37,720 Why, thank you. I enjoy teaching very much. 79 00:05:37,755 --> 00:05:39,631 Well, see you next week, then. 80 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,113 Yes. 81 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,080 I think Father Woods was rather a romantic figure. 82 00:05:47,115 --> 00:05:48,645 Bit of dash about him. 83 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,560 He was a very brilliant man and he was a man who was multifaceted... 84 00:05:52,595 --> 00:05:54,285 he was a priest, he was a scholar, 85 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,560 he was a botanist, he was a geologist. 86 00:05:57,595 --> 00:06:00,137 He had a kind of compelling personality. 87 00:06:00,172 --> 00:06:02,680 And I think he was probably quite different 88 00:06:02,715 --> 00:06:04,285 to anybody else that was around. 89 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,677 And we must remember, everybody deserves an edu... 90 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,765 Everybody has a God-given right to an education. 91 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,840 The future of this country depends on the education of our children. 92 00:06:16,875 --> 00:06:20,116 If our children remain ignorant, the whole colony will suffer. 93 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Excuse me, Father. 94 00:06:22,715 --> 00:06:24,445 Mary. 95 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,074 I was asked to bring you this. 96 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,080 It's from my aunt. 97 00:06:30,115 --> 00:06:32,150 How kind. 98 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,120 How are you settling in, then? 99 00:06:37,155 --> 00:06:39,405 - Fine. - Good. 100 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,085 Father, can I ask you something? 101 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520 - Yes? - It's about your sermon yesterday. 102 00:06:44,555 --> 00:06:46,192 Yes, of course. 103 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,080 You said that everyone has the right to an education, 104 00:06:50,115 --> 00:06:52,765 that knowledge can set you free. 105 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,880 But schooling's expensive. Not everyone can afford an education. 106 00:06:57,915 --> 00:07:02,320 Well, it's a difficult area. I've thought about it a lot. 107 00:07:02,355 --> 00:07:06,000 Somehow we need schools to be free. 108 00:07:06,035 --> 00:07:08,652 That would solve the problem. 109 00:07:08,687 --> 00:07:11,269 As it happens, I have an idea. 110 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,840 It's not completely practical. 111 00:07:14,875 --> 00:07:16,565 What is it? 112 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,238 A teaching order of nuns. 113 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,700 It doesn't exist yet. I'm still thinking it through. 114 00:07:23,735 --> 00:07:28,120 They'll teach only the poor and live like the poor. 115 00:07:28,155 --> 00:07:29,885 It would be the first Australian order, 116 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,074 uniquely designed for this impossible, mosquito-ridden country. 117 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,080 I think you can repeat after me. 118 00:07:39,115 --> 00:07:43,205 Today is St Joseph's Day... 119 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,560 Today is St Joseph's Day... 120 00:07:47,595 --> 00:07:49,817 ...19th of March... 121 00:07:49,852 --> 00:07:52,040 ...19th of March... 122 00:07:52,075 --> 00:07:53,853 ...1866. 123 00:07:53,888 --> 00:07:55,631 ...1866. 124 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,165 Dearest Mama, 125 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,605 I have long wished to enter religious life. 126 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,952 The thought of leaving you gave me much pain and anxiety. 127 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,388 Don't dread the future. I feel sure you won't have cause. 128 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,879 What appear great crosses can be great blessings. 129 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,800 Father Woods had a very attractive personality. 130 00:08:41,835 --> 00:08:44,765 And there are stories around 131 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,765 saying that some of the mothers locked their doors 132 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,360 and wouldn't let their daughters out when Father Woods was coming 133 00:08:51,395 --> 00:08:53,160 because they were afraid they would go off 134 00:08:53,195 --> 00:08:55,469 and join the Sisters of St Joseph. 135 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,125 I'm now a sister of St Joseph, 136 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,085 devoted completely to the work I care about... 137 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,590 the education of children living in humble circumstances. 138 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,788 My heart is at rest and my spirit feels free. 139 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,200 They felt that if they adopted a kind of poverty 140 00:09:21,235 --> 00:09:23,125 where they owned nothing, 141 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,080 where they lived in rented accommodation and so on, 142 00:09:27,115 --> 00:09:31,039 they were really one with the poor people. 143 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,160 As sisters, we shall wear a monogram with three letters, 'J', 144 00:09:43,195 --> 00:09:47,950 in honour of Jesus, St Joseph and St John the Baptist. 145 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,196 To maintain our integrity, we shall govern ourselves. 146 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,674 We will be responsible only to our mother general. 147 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,600 Mary and Father Woods chose autonomy because they needed it. 148 00:10:11,635 --> 00:10:13,765 They were setting up an Australia-wide order, 149 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,925 which was quite a new concept in its time, anyway, 150 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,480 and they had to have the ability to have control of themselves. 151 00:10:22,515 --> 00:10:26,205 They needed to be able to train their own people 152 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,440 and they needed to be able to move them round the country as needed. 153 00:10:29,475 --> 00:10:33,000 And the order set out to work in cooperation with the bishops 154 00:10:33,035 --> 00:10:36,072 but that they weren't to have the final say. 155 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,845 Very good. Well done, Emma. 156 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,680 Now, where did I put that providence bag? 157 00:10:53,195 --> 00:10:55,405 Did I put it over... No. 158 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,440 No, no, no. I'm sure I didn't. I didn't leave it in the box this time. 159 00:10:59,475 --> 00:11:01,032 Oh! 160 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,631 Here you are. 161 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,565 - Thank you. - Good girl. 162 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,940 Alright. Who else would like a turn? 163 00:11:11,975 --> 00:11:14,280 James, you've had your turn today. 164 00:11:14,315 --> 00:11:16,325 Me. Me. Please? 165 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,876 - Alright, Johnny. You go. - Why does he always get it? 166 00:11:20,911 --> 00:11:25,393 And I would like you to write the capital of Queensland, please. 167 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,031 Excuse me. 168 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,880 - Good morning, Sister. - Good morning. 169 00:11:33,915 --> 00:11:35,525 Governor Daly has instructed me 170 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:38,440 to bring his grandson, young Thomas, to join your class. 171 00:11:38,475 --> 00:11:40,725 He's most welcome. 172 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,200 We've heard only the best reports about your schools. 173 00:11:44,235 --> 00:11:45,997 Thank you. 174 00:11:46,032 --> 00:11:47,760 Hello, Tommy. 175 00:11:47,795 --> 00:11:49,205 Hello. 176 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,565 His name is Thomas. 177 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,400 Thomas. 178 00:11:53,435 --> 00:11:55,755 Follow me, Thomas. 179 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,114 Emma, this is Thomas. 180 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,799 - Here's a slate for you and... - Excuse me, Sister. 181 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,109 Thomas can't sit there. 182 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,520 He requires special care. 183 00:12:17,555 --> 00:12:19,431 Special care? 184 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,957 Governor Daly would expect him to be seated separately from the others. 185 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,314 Everyone's equal before God, sir. 186 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,765 We are all equally special. 187 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,640 I'm sure he'll be very happy sitting where he is. 188 00:12:35,675 --> 00:12:37,685 That's all very well, Sister, 189 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,439 but I know the governor will not be satisfied with this arrangement. 190 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,560 I'm sorry, sir. We make no exceptions. 191 00:12:44,595 --> 00:12:46,885 All the children sit together. 192 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,957 I must tell the governor before we can allow the boy to stay. 193 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,670 We'd love to have Thomas in our class. 194 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,320 We shall see. Come along, Thomas. 195 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,272 - Good morning, Sister. - Good morning. 196 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,520 The first thing that happened was that they were a big success. 197 00:13:06,555 --> 00:13:09,197 They had 60 pupils in the first school, 198 00:13:09,232 --> 00:13:11,805 and in six months it had gone to 200. 199 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,640 I think within two years they had 127 nuns running 17 institutions. 200 00:13:16,675 --> 00:13:18,205 They're the bare facts. 201 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,480 So it says that the service they were offering was needed. 202 00:13:22,515 --> 00:13:25,600 They set out to provide a basic education 203 00:13:25,635 --> 00:13:27,645 for the children of poor families, 204 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,400 most of whose parents were illiterate, 205 00:13:30,435 --> 00:13:33,085 and their aim was to teach the children 206 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,320 to read and understand an ordinary newspaper, 207 00:13:36,355 --> 00:13:39,045 to write simple letters correctly, 208 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,645 and to do enough sums to be able to manage their money. 209 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,200 Of course, that's the significant thing about Mary MacKillop, 210 00:13:47,235 --> 00:13:50,720 that she set up an educational system that had a curriculum. 211 00:13:50,755 --> 00:13:54,317 Now, it was very pragmatic and practical, 212 00:13:54,352 --> 00:13:57,880 but that's what she saw that the poor needed. 213 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,680 What will I say? 214 00:14:07,715 --> 00:14:09,205 Let me show you. 215 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,231 - Always be as friendly as possible. - Mm-hm. 216 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,040 - Good morning to you. - Morning. 217 00:14:19,075 --> 00:14:20,485 We're the Sisters of St Joseph. 218 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,120 We were hoping you might have food to spare for the poor orphans. 219 00:14:23,155 --> 00:14:26,240 No. We got nothing to give away to no-one. 220 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,840 That was for us. Do you have anything for the children? 221 00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:37,685 You don't give up, do you? 222 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,633 Thought you nuns were supposed to be locked up in the convent. 223 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,880 Too many homeless children for us to be locked up. 224 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,680 Well, I might have a few scraps to give you. 225 00:14:50,715 --> 00:14:53,069 Humph. Come round begging. 226 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,325 Well, the sisters went begging 227 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,760 because they had no other way to provide. 228 00:15:02,795 --> 00:15:04,965 Mary had this idea that... 229 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,480 She'd set up what she called 'houses of providence' 230 00:15:07,515 --> 00:15:10,117 and the idea was that God would provide. 231 00:15:10,152 --> 00:15:12,685 But being the practical woman she was, 232 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280 she gave him ample opportunity to see that he did something about it. 233 00:15:16,315 --> 00:15:19,845 The order was set up in a series of small houses 234 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,839 and the nuns often lived two together in remote areas. 235 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,645 They had to be very independent people themselves 236 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,499 in order to survive there, because there was no kind of support. 237 00:15:31,534 --> 00:15:34,319 They didn't have the communication systems that they have now. 238 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,994 Come on. Get up. 239 00:16:10,475 --> 00:16:12,125 Oh, Sister Agnes. 240 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,525 - Have you got that kettle on? - Yes. 241 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,680 So she'd get on a horse and she'd travel for days 242 00:16:17,715 --> 00:16:19,205 to get to visit her nuns 243 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,320 because she always acted in a maternal way towards them. 244 00:16:22,355 --> 00:16:27,725 Like, she was maternal and she supported them, 245 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,720 but she supported them to be independent, not to be dependent, 246 00:16:31,755 --> 00:16:33,205 and that was the difference. 247 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,005 She visited the jails, the hospitals... 248 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,280 and the Royal Adelaide Hospital was a place where you went to die, 249 00:16:41,315 --> 00:16:45,280 it wasn't a nice place like a hospital is now... 250 00:16:45,315 --> 00:16:47,805 and the destitute asylum, 251 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,485 and in those places they met people who needed care, 252 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,620 young women who had nowhere to go when they got out of jail. 253 00:16:56,655 --> 00:17:00,720 So they established a refuge for those women, for street women, 254 00:17:00,755 --> 00:17:04,633 and eventually for unmarried mothers. 255 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,445 Get up! 256 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,965 They were not like the kind of nuns 257 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,000 that most of those people would have met at home in Ireland or in Europe. 258 00:17:48,035 --> 00:17:51,277 They didn't stay inside their big convents. 259 00:17:51,312 --> 00:17:54,485 They went out into the streets to the people. 260 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,000 The bishop approved of everything that they were doing 261 00:17:57,035 --> 00:17:59,445 because they could see that they were doing a good job. 262 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,920 They also had support from across the religious lines at that stage. 263 00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:06,477 And that's something that Mary pretty well retained 264 00:18:06,512 --> 00:18:09,000 all through her life and indeed after her death. 265 00:18:09,035 --> 00:18:11,525 Protestant, Catholic and Jew 266 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,560 would have been the main categories of people there, 267 00:18:13,595 --> 00:18:16,297 and she got help from everybody. 268 00:18:16,332 --> 00:18:18,965 A few of the upper-class Catholics 269 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,880 were a little nervous of what was happening 270 00:18:21,915 --> 00:18:23,325 because they weren't quite sure. 271 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,880 It was a little bit different, they were a little bit afraid of change, 272 00:18:26,915 --> 00:18:31,440 and, "What if it goes wrong? What if this movement fails? 273 00:18:31,475 --> 00:18:33,845 "What if the Protestants find," you know, 274 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,960 "that Catholics aren't quite as good as we like to pretend we are?" 275 00:18:37,995 --> 00:18:40,560 So although on the one hand they were very successful, 276 00:18:40,595 --> 00:18:44,075 they also built up a... 277 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,805 ...an atmosphere of hostility over a period of time, 278 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,560 mainly, I think, against Julian and some of his decisions. 279 00:18:53,595 --> 00:18:56,645 But then that, in turn, reflected back on the nuns. 280 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,680 When Father Woods started teaching them how to be sisters 281 00:19:00,715 --> 00:19:03,840 he introduced them to the mysticism 282 00:19:03,875 --> 00:19:07,005 of the medieval saints, 283 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,600 which was something that was far beyond their ability to cope with. 284 00:19:11,635 --> 00:19:14,765 And so he had some rather strange things happening, 285 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,880 like because they wanted to please him, they tried to get visions 286 00:19:18,915 --> 00:19:21,365 and other mystical experiences 287 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,678 such as were described in the books about these 13th-century women. 288 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,760 So, how have you managed without me, Father? 289 00:20:02,795 --> 00:20:04,565 Oh, we couldn't have hoped for better. 290 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,280 12 more girls have joined us in the last month alone. 291 00:20:07,315 --> 00:20:08,759 That's wonderful. 292 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,200 Young ones are so inspired by you. 293 00:20:13,235 --> 00:20:15,040 What do you mean by that? 294 00:20:15,075 --> 00:20:16,725 Nothing. 295 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,695 - Oh, Mary. - Oh. 296 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,365 You don't look well. 297 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,165 Mary, I'm profoundly exhausted. 298 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,045 You've been working too hard while I've been away. 299 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,000 I can't seem to rest while I'm here. There's too much to do. 300 00:20:33,035 --> 00:20:35,125 Well, then, you must go away and rest. 301 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,298 The bishop of Bathurst has offered me sanctuary. 302 00:20:38,333 --> 00:20:41,437 Oh, good. Good. I can look after things here. 303 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,925 The last few months have been an absolute torment. 304 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,111 Some of the priests here don't understand what we're doing. 305 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,160 I have heard some very strange stories. 306 00:20:54,195 --> 00:20:56,469 Didn't you get my letters? 307 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,540 Our sisters have been accused of stealing the blessed sacrament. 308 00:21:02,575 --> 00:21:06,840 This is an extraordinary time. Not everything can be explained. 309 00:21:06,875 --> 00:21:08,525 What do you mean? 310 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,325 Some of the sisters have been tested. 311 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,796 Their faith in God has been on show for all to see. 312 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,085 The fire in the convent. 313 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,238 Yes, but it's more than that. We've been wrestling with the devil. 314 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,792 Father, there... 315 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,876 There are deep, deep dangers in the spiritual life. 316 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,085 He came again last night. 317 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,540 Sister Angela was awakened by a devil. 318 00:21:40,575 --> 00:21:43,925 I saw him. He came as a hideous dog. 319 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,880 I threw holy water on him and, of course, he fled. 320 00:21:46,915 --> 00:21:49,205 But then he stood in the doorway, 321 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,391 abusing me and spitting at Sister Angela. 322 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,960 She was moaning with the agony but she remained pure, 323 00:21:58,995 --> 00:22:04,592 like St Teresa, "To suffer or to die." 324 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,553 It's so hard to be sure about these things. 325 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,756 You doubt me? 326 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,109 You must rest, Father. 327 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,231 It happens at times that among nuns you find some types 328 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,645 who are, frankly, hysterical. 329 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,925 That's not very frequent, but it does happen, 330 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200 and she had the misfortune among the first group of her sisters 331 00:22:39,235 --> 00:22:43,000 to have two of them who pretended to have visions, 332 00:22:43,035 --> 00:22:45,645 to have diabolical vexations 333 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,160 and other things like that... stigmata and all that. 334 00:22:48,195 --> 00:22:49,925 Now, Mary MacKillop, 335 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,400 who was very down-to-earth and who was a very shrewd person 336 00:22:54,435 --> 00:22:56,957 with regard to the assessment of people, 337 00:22:56,992 --> 00:22:59,445 was utterly reserved with regard to this. 338 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,480 But Father Woods, who at that time had still a great influence, favoured them 339 00:23:03,515 --> 00:23:05,517 and this caused a good deal of trouble. 340 00:23:05,552 --> 00:23:07,676 In the event, the two sisters admitted 341 00:23:07,711 --> 00:23:09,765 that the whole thing had been a fraud. 342 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,720 Mary and Father Woods, I think, in the early stages were friends. 343 00:23:14,755 --> 00:23:16,485 He was spiritual advisor 344 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,400 and to a certain extent I think he was mentor. 345 00:23:19,435 --> 00:23:22,205 But that was only in the early stages. 346 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,645 I think as the religious order got underway 347 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,960 and Mary took on more and more responsibilities... 348 00:23:29,995 --> 00:23:31,685 She was 10 years his junior, 349 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400 but she took on a lot of the administrative responsibilities 350 00:23:34,435 --> 00:23:36,885 and she began to grow in that. 351 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,320 And I have the feeling that Julian Woods was more of a visionary, 352 00:23:42,355 --> 00:23:44,560 the kind of person who started things off 353 00:23:44,595 --> 00:23:47,085 but didn't necessarily develop them 354 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,520 and continue them through in an administrative manner. 355 00:23:49,555 --> 00:23:51,877 I don't think he was nearly as good at that. 356 00:23:51,912 --> 00:23:54,200 And that's where Mary came into her own. 357 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,592 The bishop has shown us generous support until now. 358 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,725 But I fear that these mystical events 359 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,115 have put our entire order into disrepute. 360 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,198 Certainly the bishop's council thinks lowly of us. 361 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,519 Ah, Sister Mary, Sister Teresa. 362 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,520 Oh, pray be seated. 363 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,445 Thank you, my Lord. 364 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,800 You'll be pleased to know we set up four new schools in Queensland. 365 00:24:35,835 --> 00:24:37,525 Oh, very good. Very good. 366 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,645 Is there something I can do for you, Sister Mary? 367 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,680 My Lord, I'm worried about your decision to divide the sisters. 368 00:24:46,715 --> 00:24:48,645 Why is that? 369 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,125 We're a democratic order. 370 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,754 It doesn't matter to us what size dowry a sister brings with her. 371 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:58,880 Your proposal, my Lord, asks that we make distinctions 372 00:24:58,915 --> 00:25:00,871 between the rich and the poor sisters. 373 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,431 Your sisters, Sister Mary, have become women of the street. 374 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,080 My Lord, there must be some misunderstanding. 375 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,360 It appears the devil has got amongst you. 376 00:25:14,395 --> 00:25:15,845 Please allow me to explain. 377 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,760 In my absence, Father Woods has been under much duress. 378 00:25:19,795 --> 00:25:23,657 Father Woods is unfit for his duties. I'll be taking over. 379 00:25:23,692 --> 00:25:27,520 My Lord, you've always approved of our work until now. 380 00:25:27,555 --> 00:25:29,829 Your sisters can't even teach. 381 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,485 Perhaps you mean the younger ones. 382 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,925 - They're still... - Your standards aren't high enough. 383 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,800 The younger ones are still in training. They're only assisting. 384 00:25:39,835 --> 00:25:42,633 I mean no disrespect, my Lord. 385 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,325 I'll examine your sisters. 386 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,989 I'll decide who's good enough and the rest will be dismissed. 387 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,605 The convent will go to the Dominican nuns. 388 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,474 A smaller house will be found for you and your sisters. 389 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,395 We prefer simplicity. 390 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,479 And I want you to teach music. 391 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,195 Music is for those who can afford a piano, my Lord. 392 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,165 My Lord, would you be kind enough 393 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,685 to write down the changes you wish to make to the rule? 394 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,440 I'll do no such thing. I'll not humour the whim of a female. 395 00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:32,798 I made the rule. I can change it when and as I please. 396 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,831 I know better what is good for the sisters than you do yourselves. 397 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,240 Mary was bigger than the people around her quite often 398 00:26:46,275 --> 00:26:50,045 and she just couldn't go along 399 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,360 with forsaking her larger loyalties for smaller ones. 400 00:26:54,395 --> 00:26:58,377 She would have loved to obey... and she says this... 401 00:26:58,412 --> 00:27:02,360 even the least of the priests who were around her. 402 00:27:02,395 --> 00:27:03,965 She would have loved to obey them. 403 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,845 But she found herself with a crisis of conscience 404 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,111 and she had to work out where her greater loyalties were. 405 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,165 My Bishop, it is in the most docile spirit 406 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,078 that I now venture to write the thoughts of my heart. 407 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,600 From the time I gave myself completely to this world 408 00:27:26,635 --> 00:27:28,845 I have found true peace. 409 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,919 I want to please you, but above all to please God. 410 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,709 "I want to please you, but above all to please God. 411 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,355 "You kindly approved our rule as it now stands. 412 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,165 "If you should alter our rule, 413 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,239 "I must take the alternative that you have offered and leave. 414 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,920 "Pardon me if I say that I cannot in conscience see our rule altered 415 00:27:56,955 --> 00:27:59,309 "and still remain a Sister of St Joseph." 416 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,765 How dare she? 417 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,873 "I implore your pardon, my Lord, if I presume too much." 418 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,605 And so where is Sister Mary? 419 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,280 We beg your pardon, my Lord. Sister Mary's been ill. 420 00:28:29,315 --> 00:28:31,430 She is on her way. 421 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,405 I trust we have not disturbed your sleep. 422 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,120 Your Lordship, Fathers, I humbly apologise for my delay. 423 00:28:48,155 --> 00:28:50,765 I've not been well this morning. 424 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,155 Oh, you'll get no blessings from me. 425 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,679 Do not stand! 426 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,565 I hope you 're satisfied, Sister Mary. 427 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,280 On account of your disobedience and rebellion 428 00:29:05,315 --> 00:29:08,716 you leave me no option. 429 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,285 I, Bishop Sheil, 430 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,320 through the power invested in me by the holy church of Rome, 431 00:29:19,355 --> 00:29:24,560 do solemnly declare that you, Sister Mary MacKillop, 432 00:29:24,595 --> 00:29:26,485 are from this time forth 433 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,400 excommunicated from the holy Catholic church. 434 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,740 You are now Mary MacKillop, 435 00:29:36,775 --> 00:29:39,725 free to return to the world. 436 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,675 And take your weakness with you, young lady. 437 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,325 Sister Mary! Sister Mary! 438 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,880 Anyone speaking with this woman will be excommunicated along with her. 439 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,320 Mary, do something with your sisters. 440 00:29:57,355 --> 00:29:59,629 Silence! 441 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,635 Don't leave us, Mary. 442 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,231 - Don't. - Please, Paula, let me go. 443 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,680 Be strong for me. 444 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,549 I really felt like someone in a dream. 445 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,638 I can't remember the things that were said to me. 446 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,955 I did not feel alone. 447 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,165 I was intensely happy 448 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,398 and felt nearer to God than I had ever felt before. 449 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,679 Mary was excommunicated because, basically, 450 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,880 the clergy could not accept that the Josephites were proper nuns. 451 00:31:16,915 --> 00:31:19,897 They wanted to fit them into the mould 452 00:31:19,932 --> 00:31:22,845 of the Irish religious whom they knew, 453 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,760 and they led the bishop to believe that he needed to take strong action 454 00:31:28,795 --> 00:31:31,920 because there were some things that were happening among the nuns 455 00:31:31,955 --> 00:31:34,354 that were not quite right. 456 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,085 My movements are well watched 457 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,000 and the most absurd stories are going about, 458 00:31:56,035 --> 00:31:58,116 one that I'm dead and buried. 459 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,080 Had it not been for the kindness of a few who have given me refuge 460 00:32:03,115 --> 00:32:06,005 I would have fled from this place altogether. 461 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,436 Many of the sisters have been dispensed or expelled. 462 00:32:10,471 --> 00:32:14,833 I meet with them in secret so as to avoid scandal. 463 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,725 First of all, she was tossed out. 47 of her nuns followed her. 464 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,280 They didn't have anywhere to live because they didn't own any property. 465 00:32:31,315 --> 00:32:35,005 A Jewish friend gave the other nuns a house, 466 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,840 and it should be understood that Mary was excommunicated 467 00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:42,485 and it was said 468 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,400 that anybody who spoke to her would also be excommunicated. 469 00:32:46,435 --> 00:32:50,280 So there was a lot of danger in people even talking to her. 470 00:32:50,315 --> 00:32:53,400 In a paper called the 'Protestant Advocate', 471 00:32:53,435 --> 00:32:56,085 which was a very strong, 472 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,285 'Truth'-type paper of the day... 473 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,640 And the person who wrote there claimed 474 00:33:03,675 --> 00:33:06,925 that some of the sisters were pregnant, 475 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,085 that they were having a very good night-life 476 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,120 that was being kept pretty, you know, on the side, 477 00:33:14,155 --> 00:33:15,885 and that, generally speaking, 478 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,280 life in the convent was a little bit like hell on earth. 479 00:33:20,315 --> 00:33:22,325 And they also claimed 480 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,040 that Father Woods got around with his head in the clouds 481 00:33:25,075 --> 00:33:27,315 and had no idea what was going on. 482 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,565 "And so, my dear child, 483 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,085 "let us leave each other alone for a time. 484 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,874 "My work with the Sisters of St Joseph is over. 485 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,925 "You would get on much better without me. 486 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,160 "Let us be done with painful recollections and sad words. 487 00:33:51,195 --> 00:33:54,948 "I am sorry if I have caused you pain. 488 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,353 "It was a sad day for your soul when you met me. 489 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,751 "I fear it is my misfortune to do more harm than good." 490 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,160 Certainly, she had to undergo a number of trials, 491 00:34:17,195 --> 00:34:19,925 and she would not have been human 492 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,405 if she hadn't greatly suffered from that. 493 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,580 And she did suffer from it, and understandably so. 494 00:34:26,615 --> 00:34:30,720 But on the other hand, there is nothing in her make-up 495 00:34:30,755 --> 00:34:32,485 as far as we could ascertain... 496 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,440 I have investigated this question thoroughly 497 00:34:34,475 --> 00:34:36,605 because it is an important point... 498 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,840 there is absolutely nothing that would be the slightest indication 499 00:34:40,875 --> 00:34:42,965 that she was revengeful 500 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,949 or that she was embittered against the bishop or anything like that. 501 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:58,085 Dearest Mama, 502 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,920 I am quite confident that the bishop will soon realise 503 00:35:00,955 --> 00:35:02,990 he's been misled about us. 504 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,925 Bishops and priests have an awful power. 505 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,636 How terrible in the sight of God it must be if that is abused. 506 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:14,517 I'm not afraid. 507 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,313 I feel protected. 508 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,440 There may be storms in the life of a saint 509 00:35:30,475 --> 00:35:33,085 but ultimately there must be serenity. 510 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,560 This confidence in God and this feeling close to God, 511 00:35:36,595 --> 00:35:39,485 and knowing that He would not abandon her, 512 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,605 that gave her this tranquillity, this serenity, 513 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,820 and even spiritual joy in the midst of her tribulation and crosses. 514 00:35:47,855 --> 00:35:52,000 Bishop Sheil was on his deathbed in a little town south of Adelaide. 515 00:35:52,035 --> 00:35:55,120 He had gone there thinking that his health might improve. 516 00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:58,760 And some of the priests that surrounded him, 517 00:35:58,795 --> 00:36:02,197 realising that he was so close to death, 518 00:36:02,232 --> 00:36:05,600 suggested that perhaps the excommunication 519 00:36:05,635 --> 00:36:10,230 had been a very sad mistake. 520 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,445 During his last days, 521 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,951 Bishop Sheil expressed sorrow for the injustice of his conduct towards us. 522 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,360 He lifted the sentence of excommunication from me. 523 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,960 Father Woods was the first person to suggest that Mary go to Rome, 524 00:36:40,995 --> 00:36:44,857 and the reason for it was that he felt 525 00:36:44,892 --> 00:36:48,720 that the order would face more troubles 526 00:36:48,755 --> 00:36:50,205 unless it got the backing of Rome 527 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,360 and became an established order in its own right. 528 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,440 It is unsafe in the present state of Italy 529 00:37:12,475 --> 00:37:14,085 to go in religious habit. 530 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,200 There is civil war here and the church is being persecuted. 531 00:37:18,235 --> 00:37:20,794 I have to travel incognito. 532 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,080 I was so pleased to see the Holy Father. 533 00:37:59,115 --> 00:38:03,005 He knew that I was the excommunicated one 534 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,280 but he let me see that he has a father's heart 535 00:38:05,315 --> 00:38:07,874 when he laid his hands upon my head. 536 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,878 I felt more than I can attempt to say. 537 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,673 He's much thinner than I would expect from the photographs. 538 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,680 The pope of the time had a great interest 539 00:38:23,715 --> 00:38:25,925 in the promotion of social justice 540 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,600 and therefore the project of Mary MacKillop 541 00:38:28,635 --> 00:38:30,765 immediately appealed to him. 542 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,000 And meeting her personally, he also got the impression 543 00:38:34,035 --> 00:38:37,072 that she would be able to carry out this project. 544 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,645 I am much comforted 545 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,160 that the Holy Father thought that our rule of self-government 546 00:38:45,195 --> 00:38:48,152 must be strengthened rather than done away with. 547 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,636 This means that we will be directly responsible to him. 548 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,514 I feel secure that we're well supported here. 549 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,125 The pope believes that our vow of poverty is too severe 550 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,240 and that we shouldn't risk being turned out into the streets again. 551 00:39:19,275 --> 00:39:21,565 He also informed me 552 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,195 that Father Woods can no longer be our spiritual director. 553 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,795 My dear, dear Mary... 554 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,280 ...since you took over the management, disaster has reigned. 555 00:39:36,315 --> 00:39:40,485 You went to Rome against my wishes 556 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:45,275 and destroyed the poverty and the simplicity of the sisterhood. 557 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,717 You then had me purposely removed as director. 558 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,711 You have caused me much humiliation and suffering. 559 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,920 I therefore decline to renew any relations with you. 560 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,085 And from that point 561 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,605 it seems that he and Mary separated from each other, 562 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,120 almost each believing that the other was out to destroy the work 563 00:40:22,155 --> 00:40:24,045 that they had begun together. 564 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,565 And the sad part of it was that after that, 565 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,120 he became quite vindictive in some of his behaviour. 566 00:40:32,155 --> 00:40:36,397 And I believe that some of that reaction 567 00:40:36,432 --> 00:40:40,640 came from the fact that he really loved Mary 568 00:40:40,675 --> 00:40:43,805 and that he was grieving for her loss. 569 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,720 I believe that Mary grieved for his loss too. 570 00:40:47,755 --> 00:40:49,325 I mean, Mary came back to Australia 571 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,158 in the sure knowledge that Rome backed her. 572 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,805 So she had a place, a central place to call to, if you like, 573 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,000 knowing that she had got support, and she played that card very well. 574 00:41:01,035 --> 00:41:03,445 She was actually a very good politician, you know. 575 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,520 So she played that card very well right throughout her life, 576 00:41:06,555 --> 00:41:09,205 and she did have a sense 577 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:13,900 that her direct responsibility, line, was to Rome 578 00:41:13,935 --> 00:41:18,525 rather than to her immediate superiors in Australia. 579 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,960 Like, there was a hierarchy and Rome was top of the tree, 580 00:41:22,995 --> 00:41:26,285 in a three-dimensional world, anyway. 581 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,400 I mean, religions are intermediaries for the divine, 582 00:41:30,435 --> 00:41:33,073 which they sometimes forget. 583 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,165 Thank you, my Lord. 584 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,400 There were two Quinn bishops. 585 00:41:43,435 --> 00:41:47,437 They were two very strong characters 586 00:41:47,472 --> 00:41:51,440 of the real hierarchical church mould. 587 00:41:51,475 --> 00:41:53,271 "The bishop is the boss." 588 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,880 Oh, Mother Mary of the Cross. 589 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,880 To what do we owe the pleasure? 590 00:42:09,915 --> 00:42:11,845 I've come in peace, my Lord. 591 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,525 I am sorry, young lady. I'm in a terrible hurry. 592 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,280 I'd like to discuss your decision to separate our Queensland sisters. 593 00:42:17,315 --> 00:42:19,748 There is nothing more for us to discuss. 594 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,040 It will only take a moment, my Lord. 595 00:42:27,075 --> 00:42:29,565 Very well, then. Speak. 596 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,440 We have no argument here if you allow the sisters to continue as before. 597 00:42:34,475 --> 00:42:36,005 Your sisters are teaching in my schools. 598 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,780 Therefore they remain under my authority. It's very simple, really. 599 00:42:38,815 --> 00:42:41,520 They are not the terms under which we came here in the first place. 600 00:42:41,555 --> 00:42:44,477 And what terms are you referring to, young lady? 601 00:42:44,512 --> 00:42:47,400 Our sisters are responsible only to the motherhouse. 602 00:42:47,435 --> 00:42:50,560 Oh. You mean to you, Mother Mary. 603 00:42:50,595 --> 00:42:52,845 In this instance, yes. 604 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,677 But I'm speaking of the principle. 605 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,925 I do not recognise such principle. 606 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,396 If they're separated from us, they're no longer Sisters of St Joseph. 607 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,005 I think you forget who I am. 608 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,760 You want us to teach the rich and forget the poor. 609 00:43:08,795 --> 00:43:10,405 That is contrary to our vows. 610 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,805 I've no more to say on the matter. 611 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,400 We can't run an exclusive boarding school. 612 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,240 The sisters cannot remain where their very beliefs are being ridiculed. 613 00:43:21,275 --> 00:43:24,017 The sisters will have no more contact with you. 614 00:43:24,052 --> 00:43:26,760 - They won't agree to that. - Yes, they will. 615 00:43:26,795 --> 00:43:29,276 Father Woods will be joining us shortly 616 00:43:29,311 --> 00:43:31,758 and I'm going to make him director again. 617 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,400 If you do not leave at once... 618 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,280 ...I will have you removed. 619 00:43:43,315 --> 00:43:46,115 Good day to you. 620 00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:54,757 The bishop here in Brisbane has a terrible dislike for me. 621 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,600 Sometimes I get tired of so much opposition 622 00:43:58,635 --> 00:44:00,591 from people I wish to look up to. 623 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,275 As matters now stand, Father Woods is not our friend. 624 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,229 I don't like to think about him at all. 625 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:16,520 What Mary and her nuns set up in Brisbane 626 00:44:16,555 --> 00:44:18,777 was something that was needed. 627 00:44:18,812 --> 00:44:20,965 The Catholic population there 628 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,200 could see that they were getting very good service indeed 629 00:44:23,235 --> 00:44:25,525 and they stood by the nuns. 630 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,420 So there was a public tirade when the controversy blew up. 631 00:44:30,455 --> 00:44:35,245 And he ran a public campaign against her from the pulpit. 632 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,000 But, I mean, he'd get petitions with hundreds of signatures on it 633 00:44:39,035 --> 00:44:43,278 from people saying, "Oh, no," you know, "they should stay." 634 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,754 I could no longer argue with the bishop. 635 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,685 Rather than compromise, 636 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:55,918 I have been forced to withdraw the sisters from Queensland altogether. 637 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,045 Nothing else could be done. 638 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,710 We are all sorry to have to leave the children without teachers. 639 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,485 She came to be faced with a situation 640 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,280 which she had to deal with whether she liked it or not... 641 00:45:20,315 --> 00:45:21,760 and she didn't like it at all. 642 00:45:21,795 --> 00:45:23,245 I mean, she went through 643 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,920 endless physical and emotional reactions 644 00:45:27,955 --> 00:45:29,725 to what was happening to her. 645 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,860 But again and again and again, she had to dive down in herself 646 00:45:33,895 --> 00:45:37,960 into the sort of deep well that she had that was spiritual 647 00:45:37,995 --> 00:45:40,800 and find out what mattered most. 648 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,156 My bodily health is bad... 649 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,634 ...but the mental distress is worse. 650 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,235 I'm so weary of the struggle. 651 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,710 I feel utterly alone. 652 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,805 One of her main problems 653 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,760 was that she suffered from very painful periods 654 00:46:32,795 --> 00:46:36,485 and that for some considerable time 655 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,600 they didn't come once a month, they came about once a fortnight. 656 00:46:40,635 --> 00:46:44,405 I believe that a lot of this was stress related. 657 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,560 She was a woman who had tremendous respect for the bishops 658 00:46:47,595 --> 00:46:51,045 and yet she never expressed any anger. 659 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,660 I believe that some of it was the result of repressed anger, 660 00:46:55,695 --> 00:47:00,240 because a good nun doesn't say nasty things about bishops. 661 00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:01,845 You know, if she'd kicked the cat 662 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,351 or done something like slammed a few doors, she might have felt better. 663 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,365 And how was your journey, Mother? 664 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,320 Oh, fine. Though I do get tired of travelling. 665 00:47:14,355 --> 00:47:16,485 I see you've been very busy. 666 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,308 Yes. The new schools are coming along well. 667 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,405 I am rather worried about the size of our debt. 668 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,908 - How much is it? - It's all there on the last page. 669 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,405 - �10,000. - Mmm. 670 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,645 We've tried to raise funds but the sisters are too busy 671 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,320 with the schools and the refuge and everything to go out begging, 672 00:47:37,355 --> 00:47:39,720 and the interest just keeps growing all the time. 673 00:47:39,755 --> 00:47:41,685 We can't seem to stay ahead. 674 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:45,600 Don't worry, Teresa. You 're doing a very fine job, really. Very fine. 675 00:47:45,635 --> 00:47:48,645 - Thank you, Mother. - It's true. 676 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,433 I feel very secure knowing you 're in charge here. 677 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,520 This is such a small amount in comparison to the work we've done. 678 00:47:56,555 --> 00:47:58,645 We've achieved an enormous amount 679 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,520 and we couldn't have done it without borrowing money. 680 00:48:00,555 --> 00:48:02,245 Yes, you 're right. 681 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,720 We'll go through the books this afternoon and we'll work out a plan. 682 00:48:06,755 --> 00:48:08,950 We've survived worse than this. 683 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,880 It's wonderful to have you home again, Mother. 684 00:48:13,915 --> 00:48:16,157 I'm happy to be here. 685 00:48:18,435 --> 00:48:20,085 Milk? 686 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,350 Thanks. I'll help myself. 687 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,670 So how's Sister Francesca? 688 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,560 I'm afraid Sister Francesca has left us. 689 00:48:31,595 --> 00:48:33,357 She's left us? 690 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,965 She's gone. 691 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,525 She sent back her habit 692 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,320 with a note saying she couldn't wait to be dispensed from her vows. 693 00:48:40,355 --> 00:48:42,285 That's odd. 694 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,217 She's joined Father Woods in Queensland. 695 00:48:45,252 --> 00:48:48,115 They'd been writing letters for some months. 696 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,605 I didn't know. 697 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,076 No-one did. It was all very secretive. 698 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,909 Well, she shouldn't have had any contact with Father Woods. 699 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,240 They'll be starting a new order over there. 700 00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:06,005 I wish them well. 701 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,951 It's foolish, if you ask me. 702 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,750 How are the other sisters? 703 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,513 On the whole, very good. 704 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,400 Except for one, Mother. 705 00:49:18,435 --> 00:49:21,205 Who's that? 706 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:23,360 Sister Clare is unhappy. 707 00:49:23,395 --> 00:49:25,316 Sister Clare. 708 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,920 Some people aren't suited to this religious life, Teresa. 709 00:49:30,955 --> 00:49:33,325 She saying things about you, Mother. 710 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,520 What could she say that hasn't been said before? 711 00:49:36,555 --> 00:49:39,005 That's true. 712 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,874 It's just that you 're hardly ever here anymore, Mother. 713 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,718 Some of the sisters are losing courage. 714 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,360 Bishop Reynolds was a man 715 00:50:03,395 --> 00:50:05,525 who should never have been made a bishop. 716 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,480 He was not well educated and he was not a good administrator. 717 00:50:10,515 --> 00:50:13,917 He was a teetotaller, and he had gone to Rome. 718 00:50:13,952 --> 00:50:17,285 And in Rome he had been hauled over the coals 719 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,240 about the amount of alcohol being consumed in his diocese. 720 00:50:21,275 --> 00:50:22,685 "To stop abuses, 721 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,720 "I degree that none of religious calling in this diocese 722 00:50:25,755 --> 00:50:27,925 "should take drink before dinner. 723 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,238 "I will suspend anyone found violating this law." 724 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,080 My Lord, I am grateful you have made time to see me. 725 00:50:41,115 --> 00:50:42,925 You 're welcome, Sister Clare, 726 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,360 but I don't quite understand the urgency. 727 00:50:45,395 --> 00:50:47,191 It's regarding Mother Mary. 728 00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,260 She's acting strangely, My Lord. 729 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,245 Sister Clare, what are you saying? 730 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,475 I've seen her under the influence of drink, My Lord. 731 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,640 I know the doctor has ordered brandy for medicinal reasons, 732 00:50:58,675 --> 00:51:02,200 but I assure you Mother Mary takes liquor to excess. 733 00:51:02,235 --> 00:51:03,872 Are you sure about this? 734 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,638 Positive. 735 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,760 Be very sure about this, Sister Clare. 736 00:51:09,795 --> 00:51:12,325 I've seen it with my own eyes. 737 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,160 Mary had health problems. She had menstrual difficulties. 738 00:51:16,195 --> 00:51:18,480 She wasn't the only one of the nuns that had them. 739 00:51:18,515 --> 00:51:19,925 She had dysmenorrhoea. 740 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,960 And she had alcohol prescribed for her by a doctor 741 00:51:24,995 --> 00:51:28,245 with the bishop's consent. 742 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,680 That was the cure for dysmenorrhoea at that time... it was brandy. 743 00:51:31,715 --> 00:51:35,017 We have to investigate in the causes of saints 744 00:51:35,052 --> 00:51:38,285 every single aspect in the life of a candidate 745 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,960 and especially the various problems that have arisen. 746 00:51:41,995 --> 00:51:43,725 If we would have come to the conclusion 747 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,834 that there was anything wrong in her behaviour, 748 00:51:45,869 --> 00:51:47,909 we would have stopped the cause immediately. 749 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,765 "Well, well. 750 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,395 "So your motto is 'Hoodwink the bishop."' 751 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,556 'Hoodwink the bishop.' 752 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,205 "You made a promise to be open and candid. 753 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:10,997 "Instead, you've kept me in the dark about your scandalous habits. " 754 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,438 I do not enter into any explanations. 755 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,871 I simply deny the charges made against me. 756 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,165 Surely those who know me well... 757 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,272 ...surely they can tell a different tale. 758 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,040 "It is no longer in the interests 759 00:52:34,075 --> 00:52:35,845 "of peace and good order 760 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,920 "that you remain in this province." 761 00:52:37,955 --> 00:52:39,485 Oh, thank you, thank you. 762 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,020 "I could insist upon your resignation. 763 00:52:42,055 --> 00:52:44,520 "Instead, I notify you, Mother General, 764 00:52:44,555 --> 00:52:47,605 "to leave at once for Sydney." 765 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,965 All aboard! 766 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,000 Though my character is at stake here, 767 00:52:53,035 --> 00:52:55,116 I thought it best to be silent. 768 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,000 Several sisters who have professed love and affection for me 769 00:52:59,035 --> 00:53:00,956 have been insincere. 770 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,960 If they believe these stories to be true, 771 00:53:03,995 --> 00:53:06,190 they should say so openly. 772 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,280 Right, we'll have you writing, Mother... there we are... with the quill. 773 00:53:19,315 --> 00:53:21,880 Sister Bernard is now the mother general of our order. 774 00:53:21,915 --> 00:53:23,405 There. Lovely. 775 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,592 The time will come for me to step down from the position of superior. 776 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,640 It felt strange to hand over the responsibility of the sisters. 777 00:53:32,675 --> 00:53:35,359 Alright, hold that, Mother. 778 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:42,245 She was an Irish woman, upper-class, well educated, 779 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:48,240 very much inclined to go along with what the bishops wanted, 780 00:53:48,275 --> 00:53:51,005 a yes-woman type of person. 781 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,685 Fairly indecisive, not willing to make hard decisions. 782 00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:01,280 But, you know, it's very difficult for somebody who's not a leader, 783 00:54:01,315 --> 00:54:03,357 as Mother Bernard wasn't, 784 00:54:03,392 --> 00:54:05,365 to assume first place 785 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,160 and it's very difficult for somebody who was an actual leader, 786 00:54:08,195 --> 00:54:09,605 as Mary was, 787 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,085 to assume second place. 788 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:16,620 But according to her letters, it was a most difficult time for her 789 00:54:16,655 --> 00:54:21,707 and she probably went through even some crises, really, of doubt. 790 00:54:21,742 --> 00:54:26,725 There's one very sad letter that she writes to her brother Donald... 791 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,040 and I suppose he was one of the few people she could confide in deeply... 792 00:54:31,075 --> 00:54:33,725 where she said, "Look, I really wonder 793 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,160 "ought I ought to leave it all and go away. 794 00:54:36,195 --> 00:54:37,639 "I've been tempted." 795 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,634 I'm relieved to be out of Sydney. 796 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,959 Mother Bernard and I have seriously differed on a number of occasions. 797 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,673 I regret having lost my temper. 798 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,749 My heart sank when I heard the news of Mother Bernard's death. 799 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,445 It was all very sudden. 800 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,789 I'd not seen her for many months. 801 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,593 May she rest in peace. 802 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,040 The order had spread to New South Wales, Victoria, 803 00:55:36,075 --> 00:55:38,217 Queensland and New Zealand 804 00:55:38,252 --> 00:55:40,325 as well as South Australia. 805 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,285 It's a little bit difficult to discover 806 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,605 how many students they were teaching by 1900, 807 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,111 but I think it would've been somewhere in the range of 10,000. 808 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,325 This year has been good to us. 809 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,960 We have endured the storms and grown because of them. 810 00:55:57,995 --> 00:55:59,405 We can see from history 811 00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,260 every order doing good work has been tried, as we have, 812 00:56:03,295 --> 00:56:07,467 and often from within the church we so dearly love. 813 00:56:07,502 --> 00:56:11,640 Remember, our many trials have done us great good. 814 00:56:11,675 --> 00:56:13,645 They have strengthened us 815 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,309 and in the end, they have unified us. 816 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,720 Now, as you know, the colonies of Australia 817 00:56:20,755 --> 00:56:22,405 have formed one federated country, 818 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,445 and I think we should all register to vote. 819 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,800 During elections, consider your choice carefully, 820 00:56:28,835 --> 00:56:31,445 consult whomever you want to 821 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,155 and you 're entitled to keep your vote a secret. 822 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,485 But remember... 823 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,805 every so-called Catholic 824 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,920 is not always the best man for the job. 825 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,520 You see, the Italians have a famous proverb... 826 00:56:51,555 --> 00:56:54,237 "Un santo triste � un triste santo." 827 00:56:54,272 --> 00:56:56,885 It's difficult to translate that, 828 00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,085 but I would say you could perhaps say in equivalent terms, 829 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,200 "A saint who is sad all the time... what kind of saint is that?" 830 00:57:05,235 --> 00:57:06,725 And the reason is simple. 831 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,000 I think even in ordinary human life, 832 00:57:10,035 --> 00:57:11,845 you will meet people who, 833 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,680 in their youth maybe or on other occasions, 834 00:57:14,715 --> 00:57:16,525 have received so much love 835 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,820 and have been able to give so much love 836 00:57:19,855 --> 00:57:23,080 that ultimately nothing can ever take away 837 00:57:23,115 --> 00:57:25,753 their final peace of mind. 838 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,960 - How does that feel? - Fine. 839 00:57:31,995 --> 00:57:33,871 Very hot. 840 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,349 I'll just be close by, Mother. 841 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,676 My health is increasingly betraying me. 842 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,685 Whilst visiting our order in New Zealand, 843 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,474 doctors advised me to take the thermal bath cure. 844 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,879 It does appear that the rheumatism in my knees has become less. 845 00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:59,238 And the sisters watch over me as if their lives depended upon it. 846 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,320 Mary became mother general again 847 00:58:04,355 --> 00:58:06,805 about 10 years before she died. 848 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,960 By the age of about 60, she said she was beginning to feel old. 849 00:58:09,995 --> 00:58:13,200 Her health was very bad, she had a series of ailments 850 00:58:13,235 --> 00:58:16,417 and three years after she became mother general, 851 00:58:16,452 --> 00:58:19,600 she had a stroke which paralysed her right side. 852 00:58:19,635 --> 00:58:23,485 And... I mean, typical Mary... 853 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,180 she learned to write and then to type with her left hand. 854 00:58:27,215 --> 00:58:30,840 So her physical body was giving her great difficulties, 855 00:58:30,875 --> 00:58:34,355 but her spirit remained intact. 856 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,720 There are stories of her not having money to buy stamps 857 00:59:04,755 --> 00:59:06,685 and there are stories of her habit 858 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,565 being patched and darned and patched and darned 859 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,840 and, like, if you touched it, it fell apart irredeemably. 860 00:59:14,875 --> 00:59:16,365 So that poverty thing 861 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,073 certainly followed through with her right to the end as well. 862 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,430 Today I have been much better than usual. 863 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,280 I have been waiting all day for visitors, 864 00:59:30,315 --> 00:59:32,236 but very few came. 865 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,200 Even from my chair, I can give you my blessing, 866 00:59:38,235 --> 00:59:40,919 which I do with all my heart. 867 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,725 Love one another 868 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,196 and let charity guide you in all your life. 869 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,954 Do not be afraid. 870 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,805 The surprising thing when Mary died... 871 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,500 and it's surprising because it's not usual for Australians... 872 01:00:47,535 --> 01:00:52,160 many people hailed her as being a particularly holy person. 873 01:00:52,195 --> 01:00:54,045 And there were a stream of people 874 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:59,474 wanting to touch her coffin with rosaries and pictures 875 01:00:59,509 --> 01:01:04,869 and they spoke about her in terms of being 'saintly'. 876 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,580 The alcohol issue delayed the sainthood process 877 01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,480 in the same way that the excommunication issue 878 01:01:15,515 --> 01:01:17,005 delayed the sainthood process. 879 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,280 I mean, here you've got this woman up for sainthood 880 01:01:19,315 --> 01:01:20,880 and first of all she's been excommunicated 881 01:01:20,915 --> 01:01:23,177 and now she's up for alcohol. 882 01:01:23,212 --> 01:01:25,405 Inevitably, it puts people off. 883 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,640 Then they start investigating what the circumstances were 884 01:01:29,675 --> 01:01:32,360 and Mary comes out shining bright. 885 01:01:32,395 --> 01:01:35,125 The process of saintmaking 886 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,165 has to begin on the local level. 887 01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,600 The initiative is never taken by the hierarchy, 888 01:01:41,635 --> 01:01:43,445 nor by the bishop, nor by the pope. 889 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,820 The initiative has to come from the people. 890 01:01:45,855 --> 01:01:48,160 A number of witnesses have to be heard, 891 01:01:48,195 --> 01:01:49,885 documents have to be collected, 892 01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,920 the writings of the person in question have to be examined. 893 01:01:52,955 --> 01:01:56,037 Therefore, all possible means have to be used 894 01:01:56,072 --> 01:01:59,085 to collect all the materials that are available 895 01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,320 and can be useful for the future discussions here in Rome. 896 01:02:02,355 --> 01:02:05,045 Therefore, the material submitted to the judges 897 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,440 comprehends far more than 1,000 closely printed pages. 898 01:02:09,475 --> 01:02:10,885 And from these pages, 899 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,960 it results that really she practised the Christian virtues, 900 01:02:14,995 --> 01:02:17,925 she lived a Christian life in an exemplary way. 901 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,640 And therefore, before proceeding to the beatification or canonisation, 902 01:02:22,675 --> 01:02:25,325 the church requires a divine sign 903 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,600 which according to the actual legislation of the church 904 01:02:29,635 --> 01:02:31,685 is a miracle. 905 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,280 Now, a miracle is a special intervention of God 906 01:02:35,315 --> 01:02:37,919 in the history of mankind. 907 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,645 I'll give you a concrete example 908 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,320 referring to the cause of Mary MacKillop. 909 01:02:43,355 --> 01:02:46,045 30 years ago in Australia, 910 01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,485 a lady was given up by the doctors 911 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,565 because she was affected by leukaemia. 912 01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,360 She was treated by excellent doctors in Australia 913 01:02:55,395 --> 01:02:58,285 and they gave no hope whatsoever. 914 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,108 She was completely given up, ready to die. 915 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,885 Mother Mary MacKillop, we pray for your intercession. 916 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,800 Mother Mary MacKillop, we pray for your intercession. 917 01:03:12,835 --> 01:03:15,165 Please help Margaret recover from this illness. 918 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,020 Please help Margaret recover from this illness. 919 01:03:18,055 --> 01:03:20,840 Mother Mary MacKillop, we pray for your intercession. 920 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,680 Please help our friend recover from her illness. 921 01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,080 This woman suddenly was completely cured. 922 01:04:10,115 --> 01:04:12,205 This was 30 years ago. 923 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,520 She has now six children, healthy children, 924 01:04:15,555 --> 01:04:17,685 a number of... 925 01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,040 She is a grandmother several times over. 926 01:04:21,075 --> 01:04:23,045 The doctors in Australia, 927 01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,605 specialists, Catholic and non-Catholics alike, 928 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,960 our medical board here in Rome who are highly trained specialists, 929 01:04:30,995 --> 01:04:35,160 university professors, heads of departments 930 01:04:35,195 --> 01:04:37,645 in the major hospitals here in Rome... 931 01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:42,820 nobody can give us a medical explanation of such a cure. 932 01:04:42,855 --> 01:04:47,960 I think saints can have a great impact on our lives, 933 01:04:47,995 --> 01:04:50,725 but I think it's, um... 934 01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,365 ...it is how we view them, in a sense. 935 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,800 If we view saints somewhat like somebody from the Middle Ages 936 01:04:57,835 --> 01:04:59,325 that we have up on a shelf 937 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,245 and every now and then we dust them down 938 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,365 or put a candle in front of them and flowers, 939 01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,880 well, they're not going to have a lot of impact on us. 940 01:05:05,915 --> 01:05:08,725 I think of her as a plain saint, you see, 941 01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,485 because she is a person whose life you can identify with 942 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,920 and she's been through the mill and you can see how she handled it. 943 01:05:15,955 --> 01:05:19,320 One of the ways that she handled it that I think is very important 944 01:05:19,355 --> 01:05:23,480 is that she kept herself open as a human being. 945 01:05:23,515 --> 01:05:25,125 She kept her heart open 946 01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,440 even in the midst of the hells that she was going through 947 01:05:28,475 --> 01:05:32,765 and she remained bigger than her circumstance. 948 01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,640 And to a certain extent, she kept contact with two worlds. 949 01:05:37,675 --> 01:05:42,097 She lived in the circumstance of this one, 950 01:05:42,132 --> 01:05:45,566 but she called on spiritual help and strength 951 01:05:45,601 --> 01:05:49,000 from the world that is beyond time and space, 952 01:05:49,035 --> 01:05:51,673 the larger reality to which we belong. 953 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,480 I have always felt the compassionate presence 954 01:07:52,515 --> 01:07:54,550 of eternal love. 955 01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,085 When storms rage, 956 01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,765 when persecutions threaten, 957 01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,725 I quietly creep into its deep abyss 958 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,920 and securely sheltered there, my soul is in peace 959 01:08:08,955 --> 01:08:12,080 though my body is tossed upon the stormy waves 960 01:08:12,115 --> 01:08:14,913 of a cold and selfish world. 961 01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,125 If our intention is pure 962 01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,680 and we have charity in our hearts, 963 01:08:22,715 --> 01:08:25,114 we need never fear. 78484

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