Original subtitles

I never intended to have some kind of a mystery about us.

It's just that I didn't have anything to say, in the beginning.

And now, that it's gone on long enough, then there's actually a story ...

... in a way. I mean, still I think, every night that you leave I think:

God, my life's so fucking boring.

There is so many people that I know...

We don't deserve to have a book written about us.

I know that I have to talk about details of my life.

You know, I enjoy talking to you ... but I don't

... I don't think I'm going to be any more open with ...

with my personal life in any other interview in the future.

Because people don't fucking deserve to know ...

really. I mean, it's none of their goddamn business ...

... what my personal life is like, now.

Fuck them!

They don't need to know everything about me.

#I don't want a pickle#

#Just wanna ride on my motorcycle#

#I don't want a tickle#

#'Cause I'd rather ride on my motorcycle#

#And I don't wanna die#

#Just wanna ride on my motorcycle#

I always wanted to think that I was an alien.

I used to think when I was young that I was adopted by my mother, ...

because they found me and a spaceship ...

... let me on a hustle(?) on a different planet.

I wanted to be(?) from a different planet really bad.

Every night I used to talk to my real parents and my real family in the skies.

I knew that there were thousands of other alien babies dropped off.

And they're all over the place. And I've met quite a few of 'em.

It's just something that I always liked to toy with in my mind.

It was really fun to pretend that, you know.

There's a special reason for me to be here...

... and I feel really homesick all the time.

And so do the other aliens. And I only have a chance to ...

come across a handful of other aliens

throughout the rest of my life.

... Eventually one day we'll find out what we're supposed to do.

Until I was about 8 years old I had an extremely happy childhood.

A really good one, with a totally affectionate mother.

And she was totally supportive and helping me do art.

I was always drawing and reading and she was really into supporting me and ...

I had a great time, a really good childhood during that time.

I had everything in focus, I knew exactly what I was going to do

and nothing could stop me.

And I knew that I could do whatever I wanted 'cause the world was really small...

... and things just happened to have laid down before me with luck ...

... and I didn't have any problem,

there were no obstacles in my life, at that time.

I was never really a bad kid.

but I did things like, you know, I would take ...

... a ??? can and fill it full with rocks ...

... and stand behind a fence and throw it at cars.

I had this thing about cops, too.

I had this saying called "Corn on the cops.

Corn on the cops. The cops are coming, they're gonna kill you."

I used to take those cans and throw them at cop cop cars, whenever I saw them.

And every time I saw a cop I'd start singing that ...

... pointing at them and tell them that they were evil.

My aunt Mary ...

... I guess you would call her an aspiring musician ...

... she was in a lot of bar bands in Aberdeen ...

... and she was definitely the most helpful person in my life ...

... as far as music because she gave me ...

... an electric Hawaiian guitar and an amplifier when I was like 8 years old.

... and she was the one responsible for giving me the Beatles records.

And she gave me a bass drum ...

... and I'd strap that on and walk around with the Elmer's Fudd hat on...

... and my dad's tennis shoes.

And beat on the drum, walk around the neighborhood singing Beatles songs.

When I was a lot younger I thought for sure I can be a rock star.

There was no problem, because I was so hyperactive ...

and the world was in my hands. I could do anything.

You know, I knew that I could be the president, if I wanted to.

But that was stupid idea.

You know, rather be a rock star.

I didn't understand my environment, What was lying ahead.

What kind of alienation I would feel when I was a teenager ...

because I thought of Aberdeen as like any other city in America.

I thought they were all the same.

Everyone just got along and ...

... there wasn't nearly as much of violence as there actually was and ...

... it would be really easy ...

... and I thought the U.S. was about as big as my backyard, you know.

So there would be no problem ...

... to drive all over the place and play in a rock band ...

... and be on the cover of magazines and stuff, so ...

I had the conditioning at an early stage ...

... but then when I started becoming this manic depressive at 9 years old ...

... I didn't look at it that way.

I've always thought, like, my generation was the very last ...

... innocent generation, you know.

When there was television that wasn't violent. We didn't have cable.

We had 'Sesame Street' and 'Speed Racer' and ??? and stuff and that's it.

Everything was a total phantasy.

Everything was just ... very basic ... just medieval compared to things nowadays.

Kids are so advanced and expected to be so much more advanced than they are.

I was spanked all the time.

My dad would ... in my social situations or at restaurants or something,

if I'd spill ... a glass of water or something

... he'd give my a headlock and ... dig his knuckles into my head ...

or smack me in the face.

I never understood that, why ...

... a parent would ... be so embarrassed or so intimidated ...

by ... what other people would think of you in a restaurant ...

... just because your child spills something on accident ...

... to have to punish them for having an accident.

That's a weird psychological trick to play a child ...

... because ... I still ...

... put myself down and cuss myself out for knocking things over.

I get really upset with myself ...

... because I've been conditioned to not spill things, not ...

... don't have accidents, don't have human error.

Everything's supposed to be perfect at all times, you know.

Fuck him for that.

He was a tallyman at Mill(?) Brothers windmill.

So basically he just walked around all day counting logs.

His idea of father-and-son day out would be ...

... to take me to work on Saturdays and Sundays ...

... and I would sit in his office while he went and counted logs.

Like, quite exciting weekend!

Oh, I drew pictures and made prank phone calls.

And then I would go out into the warehouse where they'd stacked 2-by-4s.

You know, really high up into the air and I would pretend that I was ...

... being chased or chasing robbers ...

... and cops and pretend to be Superman or any other super-hero.

That was about as exiting as it got.

#You say you love me#

#And I hardly know your name#

#And if I say I love you in the candle light#

#There's no-one but myself to blame#

#But there's something inside#

Then I would take a nap in the van or listen to Queen ...

... "News of the world" on ?-track ...

... over and over again and drain the battery on the van.

Then we'd be stuck. It happened a few times

we would get stuck after ??? dead battery you know, listening to Queen too much.

#It's late#

#And I'm bleeding deep inside#

#It's late#

#Is it just my sickly pride?#

#- Too late# #- Even now the#

#feeling seems to steal away#

#- So late# #- Though I'm crying#

#I can't help but hear you say#

#It's late, It's late, It's late,#

#But not too late#

I never felt I really had a father, you know.

I've never had a father figure who I could share things with.

It's hard to remember anything up until I was 7 years old and ...

... that was the time I was actually living with him ...

... and he was my dad and I had a mother and father ...

... and after that I lived with him for a short time ...

... and then he got married and after that I was, you know ...

... like one of the last things ... of importance ... on his list.

If it was me, if I was in that situation with Courtney and Frances ...

... I still, for the rest of my life,

... would go out on my way to try to contact Frances ...

... and try to have a relationship with her ...

... and share things with her ...

... you know, and he just gave up.

#And tell me that we're through#

#It's late#

#And it's driving me so mad#

#It's late# ...

I just want him to know that, that I don't have anything against him, any more.

But I just don't wanna talk to him, because ...

... I don't have anything to share with him.

I'm sure that would probably really upset him, but ... it's just the way it is.

All these kids my age found themselves asking the question, at the same time:

"Why the fuck are my parents getting divorced? What's going on? ...

... All my other friends' parents are getting divorces, too.

Something's not right."

Somehow the way that our parents were brought up ...

... isn't the way it's supposed to be.

They fucked up, somehow.

They were living in a phantasy world ...

... so they must have done something wrong.

They got a divorce, they had to ??? their oaths, just like my mom did ...

... they had to start drinking when they were 30 ...

... and ...

... really confused, and going - and fucking up ...

... over and over again with raising their children as teenagers ...

... because they don't understand the things that those kids need.

I mean, I remember all my friends asking that same question ...

...like 7 years old ...

... and it's really an unnecessary time to be asking that, you know.

It was just a plague. It was a total disease.

#Downed, downed#

#out of my head#

#'Round, 'round#

#out of my head#

#Too many people want to save the world#

#Another problem is it a boy or girl#

#Some say the weekend is the only world#

#It's such a strange strain on you#

My story is exactly the same as 90% of everyone my age.

These kids had the same exact kind of problems.

They smoked pot for a few years during high school...

They grew up during the era where there was massive communist threat ...

... and everyone thought we're gonna die from nuclear war ...

... and more and more violence started to infuse in our society and ...

... everyone's reaction is the same.

I don't think our musical version of that was any different than ...

... any of the other bands that have come out the same time we have.

I don't think we're much more special ...

... as far as having that same kind of damage. It's the same ...

But we got more attention because our songs have hooks ...

... they stick to people's minds.

Doing PE [physical education] in 8th grade, I was jumping rope ...

... and all of a sudden my back gave out ...

... and I had to go to the hospital ...

because I couldn't breathe. It felt like it actually broke.

But I'd slip a disk ...

... and then I went to chiropractor that week ...

... and I found out that I had scoliosis.

And I was supposed to wear a brace but I didn't want to ...

... and it just so happens that my guitar playing actually contributed...

... to the rate of my scoliosis growth.

It actually helped it curve more ...

because the weight of the guitar pushing down on the left side of me ...

made it go like this (?) so I'm even more deformed.

I have always had a pain.

I wasn't imagining it.

I was in pain all the time.

I probably psychologically decided...

... to trade off my spine pain for my stomach pain.

Once my stomach started up, it was so much more intense than the spine ...

... I haven't thought about my back for a long time.

I always thought that I had a tendency to eventually become schizophrenic ...

because I just felt so nervous all the time ...

I had all these nervous habits.

I once had these compulsive disorder things that I would do.

Just popping my knuckles and itching my face and

flicking my hair. I mean, I just trade off the nervous habits like that.

It was a mixture of like ... hating people so much ...

because they didn't .. live up to my expectations ...

... and just being so fed up with ...

... being around the same kind of idiot all the time.

I mean, everyone is just a ??? copy of one another.

It was obvious in my face and how I reacted towards people ...

... that I couldn't stand them, you know.

I had this personal vendetta against them because they were so macho ...

... and manly ... and stupid ...

I started to be aware of this, that people were noticing that ...

... I had this hatred towards a lot of people ...

... and it was pretty much the general consensus with everyone that knew me ...

that I couldn't stand them. I was really edgy all the time.

... and so I just started feeling really ... neurotic ...

... like paranoid in a way ...

because they knew that I was going to freak out at any time.

They always thought I was, like, this kid who would most likely ...

... succeed to ... bring an AK-47 to the school ...

... and blow everybody away.

It wouldn't have been unusual at all ...

... if I would have found at least one kid with a wacky haircut, you know.

If I could have found just one punk rocker!

I wanted to fit in somewhere, but not with the average kid.

Not with the popular kid at school.

I wanted to fit in with the geeks but the geeks were 'sub-geeks' ...

in Aberdeen, you know, they were ... the average geek.

They weren't the type of kid who would listen to Devo.

They were just usually deformed.

Luckily I found a gay friend ...

... who basically saved me from wanting to kill myself half the time.

Apparently everyone in high school knew he was gay ...

... but they just didn't bother to tell me ...

... or I just didn't bother to notice, you know ...

... until he decided to make a pass at me, one night ....

... and I just flatly told him that I wasn't gay ...

... but I'd still be his friend.

After that I started to realize that people were looking at me ...

... even more peculiarly than usual.

And then I started getting... I started to get brassed.

Like, some of the people ... especially in gym class ...

they felt threatened because they were naked ...

... and I was supposably gay, so ...

They'd either better cover up their penises ... or punch me.

Or both.

But after that I started being proud of the fact that I was gay ...

... even though I wasn't.

I really enjoyed the conflict.

Pretty exciting.

Because I almost found my identity.

I was a special geek, you know.

Wasn't quite the punk-rocker I was looking for, but ...

... at least it was better than, you know, being the average geek.

One time my mom knew that I was smoking pot ...

... she tried all these psychological angles (?) ...

... to try to get me to stop ...

... and she had some pot ... she had some in her jewelry jar (?) ...

... and I would sneak it out every time,

I'd take a little piece out every once in a while...

... I'd replace it with oregano.

Eventually she's had a bag of oregano sitting in her jewelry jar.

During one night she offered me to come down ...

... with my friend Myer to smoke some pot with her ...

... and she knew it was oregano ...

... but we didn't know that she knew that ...

... so we had to sit there and smoke oregano with her.

But we never got high together,

we didn't smoke pot, we weren't pot buddies or anything.

The only other time I remember my mom and pot was ...

... I had a whole 8th of 'Aberdeen Hard Buds' ...

... laying on the table. I was having a party with Myer and a couple of our friends ...

... they were drinking and we were playing this pot game like a bong game, you know.

And she came up really drunk and obnoxious ...

... and she just had something against me, that night.

She just said I'd be a jerk.

And she came up and, like, was giving this glassy eyed stare...

... and took my pot and just took a big chunk of it and swallowed it ...

... and got so stick (?) and high.

-- She told me that story, yeah ...

That'll teach her.

-- Yeah, really.

There was one teacher ...

... she just appreciated kids who had original stories.

She was an English teacher and she just ...

... I would write really insane, almost offensive stories ...

... and she just loved 'em.

She'd keep me after class ...

... and we would talk for hours.

She was really great.

The only other teacher that I liked was my senior ... junior and senior

... Commercial art teacher.

He was really supportive, too.

He used me as an example, all the time...

... and he would submit my artwork to different art contests...

... throughout the states ...

... behind my back ...

... without my consent ...

... I wasn't into that kind of competition thing at all...

... so he would do it behind my back and then give me the ribbons or the trophies.

My family was certain that I was gonna go to art school...

... but at that time I was so heavily into punk rock ...

that I decided I wanted to be in a band instead.

I had two scholarships waiting for me.

I didn't have any real intentions in doing them.

I made my mind up at the beginning of the year that I wasn't gonna go.

-- And what was that ??? in the family?

I was immediately kicked out.

Not so much probably because I didn't go to art school ...

... but just because I wasn't doing much with my life.

I didn't have very many ... ambitions ...

... in the eyes of my parents ...

... although I did.

I was totally into music ...

... and just trying desperately to start a band.

They just didn't see that was anything relevant at all.

As soon as I got my guitar I just became so obsessed with it ...

... and I stuck with it for so many years ...

... every single night for a few hours, every day, you know ...

... until I went to bed I had played my guitar, it's all I ever did.

I wanted to get into punk rock for a long time ...

because I had the subscription from "Creem Magazine" ...

... so I would sit in my room and ...

... pretend to play punk -- or what my ...

... what I thought was punk rock on my guitar.

Which actually turns out to be pretty similar.

It's just noise. Three chord noise ...

... and screaming ...

And I just felt that that's what punk rock might be.

During one of my moves between Aberdeen and Montesano ...

... which is about 20 miles [30 Km] away from Aberdeen ...

... it's a smaller logging town ...

... I moved it to Montesano and met Buzz ... Osborne ['Melvins'' singer] ...

... and he turned me onto ..

... tunes in (?) punk rock by making some compilation tapes for me.

#My family's just a little weird#

#Daddy wears a dress and# #Mommy grows a beard#

#All our neighbors# #they complain all the time#

#Really don't understand my kind#

#Little brother's thrown# #out of school#

#Drownin' kiddies in the kiddie pool#

#Big brother lives in city jail#

#Mom and dad won't pay his bail#

#Big sister complains all the time#

#She's hooked on barbs and wine#

#All my aunts are lying whores#

#All my uncles are drinking bores#

#Grandma sells dope to high school kids#

#Grandpa don't care,# #his mind's on the skids#

#No one seems to understand#

#Not sure if I'm a woman or a man#

It took me a few days to accept it.

I really wanted to like it.

It was like a different world. It was like ...

...all of a sudden listening to something from a different planet ...

I sensed that it was ... speaking ...

... more clearly and more realistic than the average Rock 'n' Roll lyric.

By the end of the week I was ...

... a certified self-proclaimed punk rocker.

Yeah, I mean, oh god it's just ... I'm so glad that ....

... I got into punk rock at the time that I did ...

because it gave me those few years that I needed to grow up ...

... and just put my values in perspective and realize ...

... what kind of a person I am.

#Banned in D.C.# #with a thousand more places to go.#

#Gonna swim across the Atlantic, # #cause that's the only place I can go.#

#You - you can't hurt me#

#Moi - I'm banned in D.C.#

#Say, say#

#We - we got ourselves#

#gonna sing it, gonna love it, # #gonna work it out to any length.#

#Don't worry, no worry, # #about what people say.#

#We got ourselves, # #we gonna make it anyway#

#You - you can't hurt me#

#Moi - I'm banned in D.C.#

#D.C., D.C.#

Actually becoming a punk rocker ...

... fed into my low self-esteem ...

because it helped me realize that I don't need to become a rock star, you know, ...

... I don't want to become a rock star.

Not that I can't, you know, ...

because I don't have enough ... I don't have enough guts, you know.

So I'm always fighting this ...

... thin line that was always, like, ...

... on the left or right side of ...

... not caring and not wanting to and not being able to ...

... still wanting to prove myself to people.

I always knew that I was doing something that was special ...

... I knew that I had something to offer ...

... and I knew eventually I would have that opportunity to show people ...

... that I could write good songs ...

... or I could at least contribute something, musically.

-- When did you meet Krist?

I remember seeing him in high school ...

... a few times ...

... and I think he was definitely somebody I wanted to meet.

But I never saw him other than at pep assemblies.

He would usually participate in some kind of a skit, or something ...

... and I remember thinking: God, he was this really clever funny loudmouthed person.

I kept - you know, always making it obvious that I wanted to be in a band ...

... I wanted someone to play with ...

... but still Krist never wanted to.

Until I made the "Fecal Matter" tape with Dale [Crover, "Melvins"]

and always making it available for Krist to hear ...

... and he just never bothered to listen to it ...

... until one day he just came over and said:

"I finally listened to that tape you made.

"It's pretty good", you know, "we should start a band."

Ok, finally!

#There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'#

#Just as fast as my feet can fly#

#Come away, come away if you're goin'#

#Leave the sinkin' ship behind#

#Come on the risin' wind#

#We're goin' up around the bend#

-- And so the band started there.

Were you guys jamming together before that?

When we had the Creedence Clearwater band ...

... we jammed in Krist's house ...

... in Aberdeen. He had this really big huge house, that ...

was so fucking cold - it was in the middle of winter and ...

... you could literally see holes in the walls where the air was coming through.

And then I got a job at ...

... the "Polynesian Resort" ...

... it was at an ocean shores.

That really sucked. I hated that.

But I got away with not working very often, at all ...

because I mainly ...

... swept out the chimneys in every room of the hotel ...

... so they had no idea where I was ...

... during the entire 8 hours that I was working.

Then most of the time ...

... people wouldn't even use their fireplaces ...

... so I would just ...

... clean out a few fireplaces, run through the building really fast ...

... and then lie down and sleep for a few hours and watch television.

It was a great job!

-- That's so rude.

They eventually caught on ...

and started monitoring me.

Then I got caught.

-- And that was that? -- Mhm.

I've always been an extremely lazy person ...

when it comes to work.

But [it's not so much] the job itself.

It's trying to stay away from the co-workers.

I've always had this terrible ...

relationship with co-workers.

I just cannot get along with ...

... average people.

You know, they just bother --

They get on my nerves so bad ...

I just can't ignore them, at all.

I have to confront them and...

... and just tell them that I hate their guts ...

... or not talk to them.

I didn't have any place to live for like ...

... almost the entire winter.

I just slept on people's couches ...

... and slept on the back of Dale's porch in a box.

And just all over the place.

It was cool, because ...

... it was just convenient ...

to stay on people's couches ...

... because I would end up buying beer ...

... and then we would drink that night and that beer ...

... at someone's house and I'd just stay overnight ...

... and then go somewhere else, the next day ...

and I'd just, like, go back and forth between everybody's houses.

But I mean, after a while, after a couple of months I wore my welcome out ...

... and then I was pretty destitute.

I was sleeping under the bridge, a while and it was ...

... one of the coldest winters I can remember, too.

It was really fucking cold.

I remember just walking around during the daytime with absolutely nothing to do ...

... and I always ended up at the library.

I'd spend so much time at the library ...

... just sitting there, reading and...

... just waiting for the day to end.

#I was born in this town#

#Live here my whole life#

#Probably come to die in this town#

#Live here my whole life#

#Never anything to do in this town#

I was kind of proud of myself ...

... to be able to survive ...

... without having to have a job.

Because I was just living out the Aberdeen phantasy version ...

of being a punk rocker, you know.

It was really easy.

I mean, it's nothing compared to what most kids are ...

... subjected to, after they run away to the big city.

I was constantly asking the friends - the few friends that I had ...

... if they would move to Seattle with me.

I desperately wanted to go to Seattle ...

because I knew that's where the action was, you know.

But no one would go with me ...

... and I was just too afraid to go by myself.

I was always ... just totally poor ...

... and always in a small grungy dirty place.

It was fun, though.

I mean, I was a bachelor for the first time.

On my own.

-- Yeah, your mom said you were really happy when you moved into that place.

Mhm.

Also because I had a band and ...

yeah, I just felt independent.

I mean, I remember ...

... years ago ...

... like, asking Eric Shilinger:

"How successful do you think a band could be, like, if they ...

... if they mixed really heavy Black Sabbath with The Beatles, you know?

I mean, what would we be able to do with that?

I mean, I want to be able to do all different kinds of music.

I want to be kind of like Led Zeppelin in a way...

... but be totally extreme punk rock ...

... and then do real wimpy pop songs and...

and it just doesn't seem like it would work ...

... because no one would be able to tell that you are the same band and ...

at that point I knew that we didn't really have a unique sound.

I didn't think that we were really original.

I asked a lot of people about this ...

... and I was always toying with the idea.

-- That's interesting, cause, you know ...

a lot of people, when I asked ??? what was Kurt like ...

... back then ...

they always said: "He just didn't give a shit what anyone thought."

No, I definitely thought about what people might think

... of my music ...

... because I knew that ...

... in order to do exactly what I really wanted to do ...

... I needed to get some kind of fan base, you know.

I mean, I couldn't have used those terms, back then.

I didn't understand the way music works ...

... and how you get an audience.

We knew we'd eventually start doing exactly what we wanted to do ...

... no matter what and ...

... we didn't give a fuck if anyone liked it or not ...

... but we still wanted to try to please people, at first, you know ...

... to see what would happen.

Oh, I just remembered our first show!

It was Erin Burkhard's (?) friend's house, way out in the woods.

That was the best time!

God, that was so great! We had everyone so scared and they'd sit there ...

... in the kitchen, hiding from us.

We had to run through (?) the entire living room to the rest of the house.

There's like 50 stoners ...

... in the kitchen, just hiding from us ...

cause we're making so much noise ...

We're so drunk.

Shelly and Tracy started making out ...

... and I would jump up on top of the table and they would, like, caress me and ...

... just making total fools out of ourselves.

And of course, by the end of the evening ...

... most of the girls at this - at the party ...

... talked their boyfriends into wanting to beat us up ...

"It's time to pack up and leave, boys!"

I just became obsessed with turtles ...

... one month, decided to buy about 5, 6 of them ...

... and then I put them in a bathtub in the middle of the living room.

They're real docile.

they don't move, they show no emotion.

They're so inanimate, you know.

They're just the stupidest idea of a pet.

That is the complete opposite of what dogs are.

I can't stand dogs for some reason.

They're just too willing to please ...

... and you could do anything to them.

I like cats and animals that require attention.

You know, you have to take care of them ...

... and basically they just have this 'fuck you' attitude.

'So I'm stuck in this tank, I'm miserable ...

... I hate you and I'm not gonna perform for you.

Those shells really aren't that helpful.

It's real sensitive and if you knock on them, it hurts them.

So it really isn't the protective covering that everyone thinks it is.

They fall on their back, they'll split it open and die.

I always looked forward to going to Olympia ...

... because it was a taste of culture.

And there was ... a 'scene'.

It was something that was unique ...

... that you couldn't find anywhere else in the states.

For about three years I've been going to the school a lot ...

... on weekends and seeing bands ...

... and hanging out with some friends.

I started hanging out with this girl, Tracy ...

... we eventually became boyfriend and girlfriend ...

... and I moved up to Olympia with her.

I can relate to the town itself, I mean, ...

... just because there was so much appreciation for art.

There was culture for the first time and I was living in a town that had that.

It was really a good experience.

I felt relieved.

#I knew exactly what I was doing#

#But I didn't know what I had done#

#I know one thing and one thing only#

#That I need you and want you#

#Right over here#

#Put some sugar on it honey#

#Put some honey on it sugar#

#I like it sweet# #'n' baby, oh baby#...

Everyone seemed to have the same basic ideals and ...

... motivations.

There was just this community of geeks.

Students who were outcasts and ...

... they were outcasts from the punk rock world, too, because ...

... they were into this, like, Jad Fair type of stuff.

They were really into ...

... they were just influenced by The Shaggs ...

... and Velvet Underground ...

... and primal garage rock.

I was grateful to 'K Records' ...

... and the other music that they introduced to me.

Like the Vaselines, ...

... a lot of stuff from europe, in the UK especially ...

... like Young Marble Giants ...

... and Kleenex.

And it made me realize that ...

... for years I hadn't ...

... looked back on my childhood.

I'd tried to forget about it, you know.

It just made me look back and have fond memories of it.

it was just a nice reminder of innocence.

So I decided to get a 'K' tattooed ...

... to remind me of my childhood.

To remind me to stay a child.

#Swing, swing, up and down#

#Turn, turn, turn around#

#Round, round and round about# #and over again#

#Gun, gun, son of a gun#

#You are the only one#

#And no one else will take my place#

#The sun shines in the bedroom#

#When you play#

#And the rain, it always starts#

# When you go away#

#The sun shines in the bedroom#

#When you play#

#And the rain, it always starts#

# When you go away#

It turned into this weird little pagan place utopia...

... where everyone fucked one another and ...

... and they had cakewalks and ...

... where they put on shows in weird places like...

... in a building on the steps and in a hallway, you know.

Or in a back alley somewhere.

It was heavily community-oriented.

Everyone helping out one another and ...

... playing in each other's bands.

#Re-arranging# #the atoms in my hairdo#

#Gets me thinking 'bout# #good times I had with you#

#Back in the Sixties# #when love was free#

#Never need to worry bout my G.C.E.# [General Certificate of Education]

They weren't fueled by the need to succeed ...

... or put out records ...

... or go on tour, anything like that.

They were satisfied with playing with one another and ...

... making up bands and we'd never really be in a legitimate band in Olympia.

You'd just be playing with your friends and jamming.

But I didn't ...

quite fit in with those people. I didn't really want to ...

because ... they ... were basically ...

... just kind of boring.

That was one of the really kind of neat ...

... bohemian things about Olympia that ...

... there would be a party where there -

... no one would drink or do drugs ...

... they would sit there and ... and drink coffee ...

... and one person would get up and perform.

I would go to the parties and ...

... it was just - nothing was happening, you know.

People were just sitting around and ...

... listening to that music ...

... and I just opted for listening to that music by myself.

I mean, I lived in .. my own little art ... world phantasy ...

... in Aberdeen ...

... and I kept myself secluded in Olympia, as well.

It wasn't as if I went to Olympia then all of a sudden...

... started blooming and started hanging out with a whole bunch of people and ...

... participated in this cultural town that was like ...

... I utilized it, but I still ...

... kept myself a monk, you know.

I still stayed a monk.

Because I've always been that way.

I've always stayed indoors, all the time.

I mean, there were weeks when I wouldn't go out of the apartment.

-- What did Tracy think of all this? You know, here you are, just ...

... being shut in and ...

... not doing anything?

There was never really a conflict between Tracy and I ...

because she knew that I would be just as happy ...

... living in my car or living under an over-pass somewhere.

The few times that she brought up the idea of me getting a job ...

... I just said: 'Well, I don't feel like getting a job, right now and ...

... I'll just go in my car. '

And then she just reluawelie-uh: 'That's alright, you can just stay in the apartment.'

She was definitely the mother - nurturing type.

She has to take care of things and people.

And she would just go out of her way ...

... to spend money on me.

I mean we'd go thrift shopping ...

... if I found something that I wanted ...

... and if I didn't have the money ...

... I would gladly just not buy it ...

... but she would always end up buying it and ... taking me out to dinner.

She did that a lot.

That was one of the things that I felt guilty about because ...

... we went out to dinner a lot.

I was always looking for someone who was artistic ...

... that I could share artistic things with ...

... and it was impossible to do that with her.

So the things that we ... ended up doing together were ...

... like a married couple would do, you know.

Real typical Middle-American things like...

... shopping and ...

... and eating.

I had this weird magnetic ... attraction to flies, well, ...

flies attracted me, actually.

I would wake up in the morning ...

... and these flies would keep me awake for hours.

They'd come buzzing and bouncing off my face.

They just attacked me...

... over and over and it's happened all my life.

This is the worst episode during the summer ??? with Tracy ...

every morning they'd just bombard me and...

... I decided to put up some fly strips ...

... that I bought, like, $ 20 worth ...

... so I'd put - and they are $ .50 apiece.

So I had, like, 40 fly strips hanging above my bed.

All over.

And the apartment - the apartment was as big as this.

Just fly strips everywhere.

That's kind of death rock as there are all these...

... dead flies all over the place.

I always decorated my house tastefully.

I wasn't the kind of person who would put 20 crucifixes on the wall.

I always would have maybe 1 or 2 crucifixes, but they'd be good looking ones.

I did a lot of art stuff during that time.

Like, I would take ... models of skeletons and ...

... and put clay all over them ...

... make them into little dolls and ...

... and put clothes on them and ...

Melting candles and making nativity scenes.

Just ridiculous arts and crafts.

I dubbed a bunch of cassettes ...

... and sent them to every label I could think of.

With little gifts inside ...

... and letters and things.

Sent them used condoms ...

... with ants.

With a bunch of plastic ants.

With confetti.

-- This was supposed to get them to sign you?

Yeah.

I sent them to 'Touch and Go' ...

... and I sent some to 'SST' and ...

... 'Alternative Tentacles' and ...

Everyone I can think of.

I'd send, like, 20 to 'Touch and Go'.

It wanted to go 'Touch and Go' more than anything ...

Cause they have all my favourite bands on it.

I felt we were really close to all dirty (?) bands ...

... like 'Scratch Acid' and ...

... and 'Big Black' ...

... and 'Butthole Surfers'.

All three of my favourite bands.

#You lie in the graveyard#

#Well, you're rotting away#

#When I talk to you daily#

#You've got nothing to say#...

At that time Hardcore was totally dead ...

... you know, speed metal was the next big thing ...

... and I hated that shit.

And the only thing to do was either ...

... be real quirky and new wave like we were at the beginning.

The reason I liked 'Scratch Acid' so much was ...

... because they had, like, structure to their songs ...

... real simple pop structure ...

... that you could follow real easily ...

... and it was almost like an 'Aerosmith' song, but it was really fucked up ...

... and that's what I was doing.

That's what I wanted to do.

#This vacancy will stay vacant#

#Because a tenant is so hard to find#

#A tenant who will understand#

#About the owner gone ???#

#That whole place is empty (?)#

#Before it's all sold out (?)#

Krist and I had built up this imaginary hatred for Seattle ...

... and anyone from Seattle ...

... just ... because we've always had the need to not belong.

We never belonged for so long ...

... that to all of a sudden be accepted into any kind of scene ...

... or society wouldn't be natural for us, so ...

... we built up these things in our minds ...

... we would just talk about Seattle - talk shit about it.

It felt degrading to be thought of this, like, this ...

... stump dumb rocker dude from Aberdeen ...

... who's never heard of the 'Wipers' before in his fucking life ...

... who's only been listening to them for, like, 7 years, by then.

It really wasn't there. It wasn't half as intense as we thought it was ...

... or wanted it to be.

So I didn't grow up in Seattle and I've grown up in middle-class.

That's something that I was fighting against, the whole time, all my life.

People were actually really nice to us ...

... at the time we wouldn't admit that.

We met Jonathan [Poneman] of 'Sub Pop' at this caf� ...

... and Krist had been drinking all morning.

We met him, like, 11 o'clock in the afternoon ...

... and Krist had been drinking since 8 in the morning, probably.

He was so fucking drunk and belligerent.

... that it was impossible to talk business with Jonathan at all, ...

because Krist would sit there and just glare at Jonathan and burp ...

... and then turn around and scream something at everyone in the caf�.

"What the fuck are you people looking at?!"

"Hey, hey!", you know, ...

... that big boisterous hate that he has.

Making a total fool out of himself.

It was great. It was really funny.

It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

And Jonathan was just about ready to get up and leave.

I really don't remember, if we came to any agreement, that day at all.

Krist was just so distracting ...

... that it didn't do any good.

#Touch me, I'm sick#

#I won't live long#

#And I'm full of rot#

#Gonna give you# #- girl -#

#Everything I got#

#Touch me, I'm sick#

I think, just the 'Sub Pop' influence,

of what they were doing - what they were trying to do ...

... made us think about what we were doing.

Listening to the 'Mudhoney' single ...

... and stuff like that.

I think it had an influence on our stripping down our sound and ...

... trying to write a pop song.

And we really didn't have any pop songs.

I mean, there were a lot of things that we wanted to do ...

... we wanted to be more experimental and diverse ...

... with the 'Bleach' record ...

... but there was just so much pressure from Sub Pop.

It just wasn't cool ...

... to play pop music if you're a punk rock band ...

... and I wanted to mix the two.

I was really too intimidated ...

by what the crowd response might be ...

... if I were to do more pop stuff.

I'd been burdened with ...

... the bohemian philosophy of musical revolution ...

... for so many years by living in Olympia ...

... that I started to resent it.

I just wished, people wouldn't take us so fucking seriously.

Everyone seems to be striving for Utopia ...

in the underground scene ...

... but there are so many different factions --

If you can't get a fucking underground movement to band together ...

... and to stop bickering about unnecessary little things ...

... that they don't agree on ...

... then how the fuck you expect to have an effect on mass level?

Well, my band was in a situation where ...

... it was expected to fight in a revolutionary sense ...

... towards the major corporate machine ...

I just thought:

"How dare you put that kind of fucking pressure on me?

It's really stupid."

-- Tracy told me the story about how ...

... you would hear that KCMU was playing 'Love Buzz'.

... and on the drive back you were just like waiting -

... waiting for 'Love Buzz' to come on the radio ...

... and finally pulled over and ...

... you called KCMU and requested the song ...

... and you had to sit in the car waiting for the song to come on the radio ...

because you were just about to go out of range.

Yeah, I remember that.

-- What was that like, hearing this song come in the radio?

It was amazing.

I never thought that I'd ever get to that point, you know.

I just thought, I would be in a band and maybe make a demo.

But for them to play it on the radio it's just ...

... too much to ask for, at that time.

It was really great.

It was just like instant success and fame ...

... beyond my wildest dreams ...

... more than I ever wanted.

But I mean, on that level ...

... once I got a taste of it, I really thought it was cool ...

... and I thought, I would definitely like to hear ...

... my future recordings on the radio ...

... and be able to pay my rent ...

... with this band at the early grade.

You know, we were totally poor ...

... making $ 30 a day...

... at a show, you know, but ...

God, we're seeing the United States for the first time ...

... and I mean, we're in a band ...

... and we're making enough money to survive.

It was awesome. It was just great.

It was total freedom.

I didn't think of ever looking forward to anything better than that or more than that.

That was gonna be the rest of my life to be - you know - be in a band on tour ...

... and play clubs and ...

... and hear my songs on the radio every once in a while and ...

... and live in an apartment.

-- After a while you're getting corded(?) by all these corporate labels ...

... and getting wined and dined and stuff like that.

We're usually nice enough ...

... to the label to ??? take us out for dinner ...

... two or three more times.

Which was our intention.

I remember ... going to Capital in particular ...

because it was so ... disgusting ...

... that I ended up leaving ...

... half-way through one of the meetings.

We had just gotten a taste of their biggest radio programmer ...

... who is this good old boy from Texas.

You know, it's like he would ... like to beat my mom up.

God, that was scary.

He asked me:

"Son, that song 'Polly' ...

... are you beatin' that bitch?"

I said: "Yes, I am."

And then two other big jock type of radio programmers walked into his office ...

... and said: "We got two tickets to the Lakers game, woo-hoo!"

And they all stood up and started cheering.

I knew, this wasn't the label for us.

#I am a passenger#

#And I ride and I ride#

#I ride through the city backsides#

#I see the stars come out of the sky#

#Yeah, they're bright in a hollow sky#

#You know it looks so good tonight#

"Listen man, I'm not gonna dick you around. We wanna turn you into stars! "

That's what we wanted to hear, actually.

because they ??? were just certain that we weren't going to be some ...

French alternative band, that no one gave any attention to.

We thought of the possibility of actually making an impact ...

... in a commercial way.

It didn't seem ...

... totally ..

... as unrealistic as it seemed a year ago.

... #And everything looks good tonight#

#Singin' la la la la la-la-la la#

#La la la la la-la-la la#

#La la la la la-la-la la la-la la#

The whole winter that Dave and I spent together ...

... in that little apartment ...

... was the most depressing time I'd had in years.

It was so fucking small and dirty ...

... and cold and gray ...

... every fucking day.

I almost went insane at one point.

I just couldn't handle it.

I was so bored ...

... and so poor.

I mean, we were signed to 'Geffen' for months ...

... and we didn't have any money.

We ended up having to pawn our amps and our TV ...

... all kinds of stuff just to get money to eat corn dogs.

It felt really weird to be signed to this ...

multi-million dollar corporation and ...

... and be totally dirt poor.

I was just tired of living in Olympia and ...

... with nothing to do.

My surroundings just didn't have anything to offer me, at all.

I needed to move somewhere.

I wanted to go to Seattle or something.

I did heroin a lot.

-- What do you mean 'a lot'?

Well, every ...

... every week or so, probably.

I didn't have any idea, what I was doing.

I called up Krist one time and ...

... talked to him on the phone. I was high and I told him I did drugs ...

and he became really concerned. He and Shelley called me up later and ...

... told me that they loved me and they didn't want me to do drugs.

It was really nice.

My stomach was acting up a lot.

It started on an American tour.

It's ... just ...

burning, nauseous ...

... the worst stomach flu you can imagine. It just hurts.

You can just feel it throbbing like you have a heart in your stomach ...

And it just hurts really bad.

I just ??? this feeling of being all ??? red.

I can finish about half of the meal ...

... then once it gets up to this certain area, right, where ...

... it's inflamed and red. Once it starts hitting ...

there, it starts hurting, as the food just sits on it and ...

it burns.

I'd managed to just ... carry on.

I mean, there's been so many times where - obviously when we're eating (?)...

... and having massive pain and no one even realizes it ...

because I'm so tired of complaining about it and ...

hurt's on tour so often that ...

I mean, I just have to eat, I have no choice but to go about my business and ...

... they have no idea, that I'm in massive pain.

By halfway through ...

... the European tour ...

... I remember just ...

... saying that I'll never go on tour again until I have this fixed.

Because I wanted to kill myself. I wanted to fucking blow my head off.

I'm so tired of it.

There's no way I'm gonna live like that.

It just - it turned me into ...

... a neurotic ... freak.

I mean, I was psychologically fucked up.

I was on a lot of mental problems, because ...

I was having chronic pain every single day, you know.

-- When was this?

For the last 5 years.

I just got to the point ...

... in the last couple of tours, just ...

... there was just no way I was ever go on tour anymore.

But ... I haven't had a stomach problem since ... I started doing drugs.

-- How did you meet Courtney?

I met her a long time ago in Portland ...

... when we were playing a show.

It was just, like, a brief encounter. I gave her a sticker.

We were talking a little bit.

I thought she was like ... Nancy Spungen, or something.

I don't know. She just looked like her. I mean ...

She just looked like a classic punk rock chick, you know.

I didn't feel kind of attracted to her.

... Probably wanted to fuck her that night, but she left.

I just wanted to ...

... add some excitement in my life.

And I'd never met anyone ...

... so outspoken and charismatic.

And it just seems like ... she is a magnet for exciting things to happen,

like if I just happen to be walking down the street with her ...

someone would try to ... attack us with a knife or something.

With no reason. Just because she seems like that kind of a person ...

... who just attracts things like that.

I felt like a rebel in a way, because ...

you know, I was going off with Courtney ...

... and we're scoring drugs and like ...

... fucking up against a wall outside ...

... and stuff like that, you know.

And causing scenes just to do it.

Just because everyone's sitting at this table just like 'duh', eating food and ...

Not having any fun ...

... and it was just so great to play this role ...

... with someone who would stand up all of a sudden and ...

... smash a glass on the table ...

... and scream at me ...

... throwing me down, you know.

It was just really fun.

#Hey#

#There's a horseshoe on my door#

#Big deal#

#And say#

#There's a black cat on the floor#

#Big deal#

Krist is that kind of person who, if he is willing to do it, ...

... then he has to take all the glory, you know.

He has to be in control of it.

And he has to be the person who gets all the attention.

But I'm not allowed to be ... funny ...

... on the same level as he is.

I don't usually show my sense of humor ...

... when I'm around him.

Because it seems like he goes out of his way to not react to it.

I don't think I've ever really made him laugh out loud ...

... and I know that I have a sense of humor and I can make people laugh.

I can make Courtney laugh all the time ...

... and I feel really comfortable about my humor with her ...

... and other people, with Dave and a few other - you know, my friends.

But with Krist there's some weird barrier between us.

We've always just had enough respect for each other, to ...

... figure out ...

... what ??? one another beforehand ...

... either(?) what little personality defects we have, that bother each other ...

... and try to ... try to stop them before ... before it turns into a fight.

I don't think we've ever spoken mean words to each other.

It's not because we love each other so much ...

... and we both think of each other as hypocrites and ...

... there are things about, well, each other, that I'm sure we despise, but ...

But there's no point - for the sake of the band.

Once we started making money and realized ...

... how much more pressures are on me ...

... and how much did I deserve a little bit more, because ...

I'm the lead singer. All these perspectives are being written about me.

I have to take all that pressure.

And I have to come up with the pressure of writing the songs ...

And I don't care if someone else gets the credit for it ...

... but I shall at least be financially compensated for it.

And it was a big deal. It was like a really big deal to him and Dave.

They sincerely felt they deserved ...

... just as much songwriting credit as I do.

That's bullshit.

That's total bullshit. It's like ...

I was ready to fucking quit the band over it. I couldn't believe it.

I'm such a nihilistic jerk, half the time.

I'm so fucking sarcastic at times ...

... and then at other times I'm so vulnerable and ...

... and so sincere.

And that's pretty much how every song comes out.

It's like a mixture of both of them.

And that's pretty much how most people my age are.

They're sarcastic one minute and then ...

... carrying (?) the ???.

I'm just as pissed off about the things that made me pissed off a few years ago.

-- And it's not necessarily personal things. It's ...

- ... rape and violence and ... - Yeah.

I'm pissed off about everything in general.

And so all these songs ...

... are pretty much about my battle with things that piss me off.

And that's just the whole theme of the whole album.

With every album I do.

They're all basically saying the same thing.

I mean, I have this conflict between ...

... good and evil and ...

... man and woman ...

It's people doing evil things to other people for no reason.

I just wanna beat the shit out of them.

That's the thought of mine (?).

Cause all I can do is scream into a microphone instead.

One time I read an interview at his office and I said:

"Jesus Christ, this makes me look like such a - a moody, emotional ...

... depressive person."

And he said: "But you are."

I go: "No, I'm not!

I like to have fun, sometimes." You know.

It's just that everyone thinks of me as like this emotional wreck.

This total negative black star.

It's just like ...

People are constantly accusing me of ...

... of being in a bad mood ...

... and always asking me: "What's the matter?"

And it's nothing wrong with me, at all. I'm not feeling blue at all.

And ... I don't know, ...

It got to the point where I actually had to look at myself and ...

... and maybe figure out what people are seeing.

And I thought, "Maybe I should shave my eyebrows.

That might help." You know.

People ask me that, all the time, like, even when ...

... I went out to a club ...

... a couple of months ago ...

... and this kid just nonchalantly said just out of the blue:

"Jeez, Kurt, why do you always look like you're mad?"

You know, and I said "I'm not mad!

I'm in a perfectly happy mood, right now, ...

... you asshole!"

#Me and my wife#

#Went all over town#

#Everywhere we'd go the people would turn us down#

#Lord, in a bourgeois town#

#Oooh, it's a bourgeois town#

#I got the bourgeois blues#

#Gonna spread the news all around#

"Yo, what's wrong? What's wrong with you? Are you sad?"

You know, most people think that if I look at them and I don't smile ...

... that I'm pissed off.

So I go out of my way to make it look like I'm enjoying myself, you know.

I usually am enjoying myself, and I'm hardly ever depressed anymore. So ...

... it's a lot easier to be able to do that.

Opiates have always ...

... made me feel ...

... the security that I wanted to feel ??? ...

... didn't hate people as much, you know.

I had a little bit of affection for them or, you know, ...

... or at least could see past the superficiality of ...

... their personality and ..

... and think of them as a real person.

Maybe they had a fucked up childhood ...

or maybe it's their environment that's making them this way.

It did release some of the animosity that I had towards people.

And I needed to do that because ...

I was tired of hating people so much, you know, ...

... and being so judgmental towards everyone.

I know it sounds like I'm almost defending my drug use. And ...

... it sounds like a lot of denial.

I need to go off on an anti-drug tirade ...

... just to put things in better perspective.

The last couple of months when I was doing $ 400 worth every day ...

... I was definitely noticing things about (?) my memory ...

... and I knew that eventually my health would start getting a lot worse.

I mean, it's the truth that I was healthier and fatter at that time ...

... than I am now.

I said right out that I don't regret it. And I don't, but ...

... that's because I used it as a tool.

I used it as a -- basically as a pain medication.

To get rid of the pain.

That's the biggest reason why I did it.

And in that sense I don't regret it, but ...

... anybody else who's gonna get addicted to drugs ...

... are obviously going to fuck up their lives, eventually.

If it doesn't take a year, it will be next year, you know.

It�s so obvious.

I mean, I've seen it happen with every person that ever got strung-out.

It's a typical classic case ...

... that drugs are bad for you and they will fuck you up, you know.

I just knew that I would eventually stop doing them and ...

... being married and having a baby ...

... that's a really good incentive, but most people don't even have that.

And also, I'm a rich millionaire rock star, ...

... and then I have a lot of things to keep right now.

I have a lot of reasons to not do drugs, ...

... but most people who are gonna be influenced by the fact that I did drugs ...

... are gonna be average people who have a job and can barely make ends meet.

-- Well, I mean, you realize how that sounds. It�s like ...

"Well, it's okay if I do drugs, but" ...

I know! That's what I'm saying. I know, exactly.

That's why I have to keep going.

I'm saying that eventually ...

... if I would have kept doing drugs ...

... I would have lost everything.

-- What is the attraction to these transparent people?

I don't like puzzles, but it just -- I like the idea to take them all apart.

Just see the guts and - organs fascinate me.

How they work. And ...

... a lot of times they fuck up.

It's hard to believe that a person can put ...

... something as poisonous as alcohol and drugs in their system ...

... and these mechanics can take it.

For a while.

It's a nice thing, it can take it at all.

Oh god, it was incredible.

It's one of the most amazing things.

Especially because ...

... it wasn't just a picture, it was a video ...

... so you could see her moving around.

It was the first time I really realized that she was a living thing, you know.

It was really amazing. You could see her heart beating, and ...

... the first thing that she did with her hands was ...

... make the heavy metal Satan salute, like this.

- Waved her arm up and down, like that. - Wow.

Then the pediatrician pointed it out and said:

"Look at that little hand gesture she's making ...

... and Courtney and I looked over and said:

"That's the sign of the devil, Doctor."

Some days I probably feel more paranoid than usual, but ...

... just since Frances has been born, most of that has been stripped away from me.

It's just gone easier and easier ...

... over the years. It's like ...

... developed, you know, real relationships with friends...

... actually have some real friends ...

... and the band's getting more popular ...

... and just actually find someone I love, you know, that took a lot of it away.

Well, it's really exciting for me, cause that's what I've always wanted.

It's the ideal. Made (?).

It's better for me, probably ...

because I'm in a ... a better position than Courtney is, right now.

It's really hard for her ... to have enough faith in herself ...

because, you know, her character's been so fucked with so badly.

There's so much scrutiny involved with her band and her personally ...

... that she'd have to put out an album that's absolutely amazing ...

... just to be considered semi-good.

The songs she has - I think they're really really good, but ...

... it's really hard to convince her that they're any good at all.

-- I think some people would say ???, you know, ...

... "Why is she getting involved in her husband's business affairs?"

Because I'm too lazy to deal with it.

And I'll just bend over and help 'em slip it in my ass, you know.

Just - I forget about things all the time and ...

... everyone thrives on that.

Everyone takes advantage of that.

I will ask someone in my management to do something for me 20 times.

And then it will take, like, 4 months for them to get it done.

And finally Courtney calls up and screams at them ...

... and yells at them so it finally sticks in their brain.

They think ...

You know, they get off the phone and they go: "What a cunt!"

But the thing gets done.

It's mainly for the benefit of our babies ...

... so we can make sure that we have some money ...

... for the next 10 years.

We're getting better at it, though.

I'm learning from her.

But you know, a lot of times she just unnecessarily jumps to conclusions.

And that's her downfall.

So she doesn't get taken as seriously as she would like to be.

She seems like, you know, she has this take on being ...

this selfish, mean, righteous person ...

... and she's way more thoughtful than I am about things like that.

When I finally think about it or [get] reminded of it ...

... then I carry on with it, you know.

But she's ...

... she's always doing things like always buying me presents and stuff ...

... and always giving me compliments ??? shit.

It's great.

-- Everyone reads about in -

they read the 'Vanity Fair' story, they read all the 'Copycat' stories, but ...

... no one ever really thinks about ...

... what the effect is on the people that's happening to.

'Course not. We're fucking cartoon characters.

We don't have any fucking feelings.

And the people that think that ...

... can the suck my dick and they can give me $ 10 ...

... for my album, you know.

I'll gladly take their money.

The thing that I've always ...

... never understood is like ...

...the classic reaction to ...

... someone who complains that's in the limelight ...

... is like "Well", you know, "You made your bed, now you have to sleep in it."

That's what everyone expects.

And you're public domain now and everyone just...

... has the right to know everything about you.

You know, no journalist has a fucking right to ask me if I do drugs or not.

You know, it's not their fucking business.

If they wanna know about the music and how I try to write it, then ...

... that's fine.

Of course that ties in with my personal life, but really ...

... not even as much as everyone thinks.

I just always felt violated and ...

... and I don't agree with people saying that ...

... everyone has a right to know. I mean ...

I have a right to try to change that perception, you know.

I have the right to try to change people's way of thinking of celebrities.

It should be changed. It should be different.

They should be treated as human beings and their privacy should be respected.

#We passed upon the stair#

#We spoke of was and when#

#Although I wasn't there#

#He said I was his friend#

#Which came as some surprise#

#I spoke into his eyes#

#I thought you died alone#

#A long long time ago#

#Oh no, not me#

#I never lost control#

#You're face to face#

#With The Man Who Sold The World#

How long did they think we're going to last, being personally attacked like this?

And they always speculated that we're gonna break up because of our own actions.

And it's only because of a reaction for what the fucking press is doing to us.

-- You ever considered breaking up?

All the time.

I've quit this band ten times, this year.

Officially, you know.

It's just to the point where I don't care enough about the band to really ...

... let it effect us this way, any more.

Besides, all the attacks are on Courtney and I anyhow.

Krist and Dave don't have to fucking deal with it.

I mean Krist just saw in 'Melody Maker' the other day that they ...

... falsely reported that he was gonna be doing a poetry reading ...

... in England. And he flipped out, you know, it's like ...

"How dare they do that!", you know, it's like ...

"God, Krist", you know ...

... "at least they didn't call you a fucking heroin addict ...

... and you're killing your baby and ...

... leaving in a taxi cab."

People fuck with us all the time.

They want dirt and they wanna lie about us.

And I just don't understand it.

I've never really tried to do anything scandalous in my life.

I just can't help ...

I want to beat them to... to their death.

I'm a firm believer in revenge.

I think, there is a time and place for violence ...

... in every situation.

I mean, obviously I have a lot to lose, right now ...

... so I won't be able to do it.

But I mean, I have all the rest of my life.

I don't enjoy people fucking with my family.

If I ever find myself destitute and I've lost my family ...

... and if I ever do see her I'm gonna beat the fucking shit ...

I don't hesitate to get revenge on people that have fucked with me. And I ...

... have always been capable of that.

They're the most ruthless life form on earth:

journalists.

They are the evilest, most uncaring fuckheads,

the most bitter people I've ever known. They're just ...

They suck.

I fucking have absolutely no respect for anyone who's a journalist.

-- Oh.

-- Shit... Excuse me.

But you do other things with your life, you know.

You aren't a person that's obviously going out on their way for the story ...

... and making up lies about the story.

Those are the kind of people I'm talking about ...

... and that just happens to be 99% of 'em.

No matter what we do ...

... how clean we live our lives ...

... we're not gonna survive this ...

... because there are too many fucking enemies ...

... and we threaten too many people.

And we've offended too many people.

Everyone wants to see us die.

And I might just keep going just to spite those fuckheads, you know.

You know, they've already treaded past ...

... the most offensive part which is attacking my family.

And I could go on for years, but ...

... there's going to be a time when I'm not gonna be able to deal with it anymore.

When my daughter is old enough to realize what's going on.

I mean, she's already gonna ...

... be 12 years old and start reading all the soap press and ...

... and start asking: "Hey, did you really take drugs while I was a baby?", you know,

and it's gonna be a hard thing to try to convince her ...

... of all the things that aren't true.

I couldn't see still fighting this stupid fight ...

... you know, ten years from now.

By that point I wanna just be putting out records on my own, you know, ...

... under a different name or something.

There's just no way I could enjoy it at that point.

The most exciting time for a band is right before they become really popular.

I'd love to just be in bands that just do that every two years.

-- Just stay on the ??? as soon as you hit big?

Yeah, that'd be fucking awesome.

Every time I look back, the best times of this band ...

... was just right before 'Nevermind' came out.

It was awesome.

Without my choosing it's become a job.

Whether I like it or not.

It's something that I love doing and that I would always wanna do ...

... but I have to be honest ...

... I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I used to ...

... when I was practicing every night ...

... imagining what it would be like.

It's nothing like what it was like the first couple of years ...

... of actually playing in front of a few people and, you know, ...

... loading up the van and going to a rock show to actually play.

The privilege of that just can't be reproduced after doing it for 10 years.

I find myself falling asleep at times when I'm ...

... fed up with people or bored ...

... if I don't wanna socialize and I'm stuck in a social situation, like ...

... back-stage ...

... or being on tour, in general.

I just sleep throughout the day. I would prefer to be in a coma, you know.

And just be woken up and we would go on the stage and play ...

... and then put back in my own little world.

-- Well, assuming that you had, you know, perfect monitors and ...

... you're playing really...

well and everything is going really, you know, just optimum...

... it'd be interesting to know what the feeling in your head is.

Is it, you know, happy?

Well, it's just a mixture of every emotion that I've ever experienced.

It's everything, it's anger, it's ...

death ... and absolute total bliss, you know.

As happy as I've ever been when I was a carefree child running around ...

throwing rocks at cops.

I mean, it's just everything and ...

... I mean, every song ...

... feels different. It just ...

And also just the vibe I feel from the audience. I mean ...

a lot of times I'll be going to the motion (?) ...

... and then I'll look out at the audience, realize that they're ...

... really enjoying themselves.

And that'll make me - That makes me happy.

-- Think this band's gonna ... last to the next decade? ???

I don't want it to, but ...

... it might.

It all depends on how ...

... how good the songs are, you know.

I mean, I was surprised ...

to find ...

... us working together as such a unit, lately. I mean ...

... we actually wrote a song together ...

... and it turned out to be pretty good.

That's hardly ever happened. Most of the time it's been up to me.

But I don't know how much more I can do with ...

... with Dave and Krist and my guitar sound and my voice, you know.

I'd really like to ...

... play with other people, but ...

... it's so ... it's almost impossible to find people you can get along with ...

... and people that ...

think on the same level as you do musically.

That's why it's so easy to play songs with Courtney.

Every time we jam on something ...

... we write a great song.

It's weird.

Because she's a person who takes command ...

... and isn't afraid to ...

... to be the leader.

And when you got two leaders together ...

... it works not really well.

I would love to be able to just play with other people ...

... and create something new.

I would rather do that than stay in Nirvana.

It's sad to think what the state of Rock 'n' Roll will be in ...

... 20 years from now.

It just seems like when Rock 'n' Roll is dead ...

... the whole world's gonna explode, you know.

And it's already so rehashed and ...

... so plagiarized ...

... that it's barely alive now, you know.

It's disgusting.

I mean, kids really don't even care about Rock 'n' Roll as much as they used to.

As the other generations have.

It's already turned into nothing but a fashion statement and an identity ...

... for kids to use. It's a tool for them to fuck and have a social life.

And at that point, I really can't see music being of any importance ...

... to a teenager, really.

I think they have just sounds and tones and ...

... use it in their virtual reality machines ...

... and just listen to it that way and get the same emotions from it.

And then go to a party.

There'll be a virtual reality machine there with a whole bunch of ...

... headphones and if you wanna ...

talk to people and listen to the virtual reality machine you can do that and ...

... and go to the other bedroom and fuck and drink and ...

... but I actually I think, virtual reality machines will actually get you high.

Technology [will] be that good.

And then there'll be, like, virtual reality junkies ...

... finding them dead on their couch ...

... from O.D. [overdose]

Dying in general? Or dying from drugs?

-- Dying in general.

I'd thought about dying all my life like any normal person.

I thought about ...

... killing myself for so long because of my stomach thing ...

... that I didn't give a fuck about whether I was gonna die or not.

If I was gonna blow my head off with a gun ...

... I may as well take the risk of dying from drugs.

-- Is yours a sad story?

No.

Not really. I mean ...

... it's not - it's nothing that's amazing ...

... or anything new, that's for sure.

No, it's not.

I'm a product of a fucking ... spoiled America, you know.

I mean, think of how much worse my family life could be if I ...

... grew up in another country, you know, in a depression or ...

... so many worse things that happen besides of divorce, you know.

I was just ...

... been brooding and bellyaching about something that I couldn't have, ...

... which is a family,

a solid family unit,

for too long, you know.

I've grown out of it now.

I'm glad that I could share it with kids who've had the same experiences, you know.

Overall, it's sad that two people can't ...

... if they choose to marry one another and have children ...

... that they can't at least get along.

It amazes me that ...

... people who think that they're in love with one another...

... can't even ...

... pretend, or at least have enough courtesy for the children to ...

... talk to one another civilly ...

... when they have to see each other just every once in a while ...

... when they pick the kids up from a visit, you know.

-- Kurt?

Yeah?

-- When you come upstairs ...

... will you ??? bottle?

Yeah.

-- Don't forget, okay?

Ok.

I mean, that's sad but it's not ...

... I mean, it's not my story - any more my story than anybody else's, you know.

-- Are you a Martian?

I'd like to believe, though.

-- Really does look just like those things.

Yeah, it does.

-- So uhm, hrm, anyway ...

... good luck, etc., etc. ...

... and thanks from the bottom of my heart. I really mean it. It's been great.

So, talk to you soon.

Alright.

-- See ya.

Bye Michael.

-- Bye Kurt.