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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:43,340 --> 00:00:44,500 Court! 2 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:14,300 The whole case against them is a fiction. 3 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:15,420 It's a lie. 4 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:19,660 The entire prosecution case rested on this 5 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:21,660 fragment of electronic circuit board. 6 00:01:21,780 --> 00:01:23,620 It was a clue, but no one could identify it 7 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:27,500 until a forensic scientist at the FBI did nearly a year later. 8 00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:29,100 He matched it to timers they'd seized 9 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:31,140 from Libyan Intelligence agents. 10 00:01:31,260 --> 00:01:33,700 British forensic scientists agreed with the FBI. 11 00:01:33,820 --> 00:01:35,460 Similar in all respects. 12 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:38,100 The timers that the fragment circuit board came from 13 00:01:38,220 --> 00:01:40,060 were made by MEBO, 14 00:01:40,180 --> 00:01:42,740 a Swiss company owned by Edwin Bollier. 15 00:01:42,860 --> 00:01:46,580 Yes, we supplied Libya with 20 of these timers. 16 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:48,420 MEBO used long delay timers, 17 00:01:48,540 --> 00:01:49,796 which are manually set to trigger 18 00:01:49,820 --> 00:01:51,460 the bomb's detonator hours in advance. 19 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:54,300 So my question is, why put the bomb on to two flights, 20 00:01:54,420 --> 00:01:56,060 Malta to Frankfurt, Frankfurt to Heathrow, 21 00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:57,796 before it goes onto the plane you want to blow up? 22 00:01:57,820 --> 00:01:58,940 It doesn't make sense. 23 00:01:59,060 --> 00:02:00,156 You run the risk of your suitcase 24 00:02:00,180 --> 00:02:02,580 being found by security at three airports. 25 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,060 It's clearly a ludicrous basis for a prosecution. 26 00:02:06,220 --> 00:02:07,580 Next... 27 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:09,900 Tony Gauci. 28 00:02:10,540 --> 00:02:12,660 Now he claims that Megrahi bought from his shop 29 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:15,500 the clothes that were wrapped around the bomb inside the suitcase. 30 00:02:15,620 --> 00:02:18,860 But a year before he identified Megrahi, he mentioned someone else. 31 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:22,940 Abu Talb, a terrorist with links 32 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:24,540 to Palestinian militant groups 33 00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:26,420 {\an8}operating out of Syria. 34 00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:28,900 {\an8}One of the Scottish Police's first suspects. 35 00:02:29,020 --> 00:02:30,100 The whole prosecution case 36 00:02:30,220 --> 00:02:32,540 against Fhimah and Megrahi is full of holes. 37 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,156 It was presented as a foregone conclusion from the very first day... 38 00:02:35,180 --> 00:02:37,380 These men are guilty. We will get a conviction. 39 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,500 Murtagh represented the US Department of Justice. 40 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:43,940 He said that before the trial began, but nothing has been proven. 41 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:47,260 But if it wasn't them, then who? 42 00:02:47,380 --> 00:02:48,620 Iran. 43 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:50,140 Syria. 44 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:52,060 But, Jim, they moved on from them. 45 00:02:52,180 --> 00:02:53,260 There's more. 46 00:02:53,380 --> 00:02:54,940 One of the prosecution's last witnesses 47 00:02:55,060 --> 00:02:56,940 was a German Police explosives expert. 48 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:59,100 They wanted him to destroy the Palestinian theory. 49 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:01,660 Remember the initial suspects, the PFLP-GC? 50 00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:04,140 Well, he did the opposite. 51 00:03:04,260 --> 00:03:08,540 Flight 103 could only have been brought down by a PFLP-GC device 52 00:03:09,260 --> 00:03:12,900 if it had been primed or put on board at Heathrow. 53 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:15,420 And a baggage handler at Heathrow saw two suitcases. 54 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:19,300 There was two new suitcases lying in the container. 55 00:03:19,420 --> 00:03:20,420 I didn't put them there. 56 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:24,300 Was the bomb that killed Flora in one of those suitcases? 57 00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:30,060 Was the bomb loaded onto the plane at Heathrow? 58 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:31,260 Is Iran behind it? 59 00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:32,540 Is Syria? 60 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:36,060 Did a member of the PFLP-GC put the suitcase there? 61 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:38,540 Nothing in this whole case adds up. Nothing. 62 00:03:38,660 --> 00:03:41,340 Fhimah and Megrahi are both innocent. 63 00:04:10,260 --> 00:04:11,860 Would you give me please your verdict 64 00:04:11,980 --> 00:04:15,900 in respect of the named accused, Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah? 65 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:29,020 Not guilty. 66 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:35,260 What? 67 00:04:53,860 --> 00:04:55,420 Would you give me please your verdict 68 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:57,580 in respect of the named accused, 69 00:04:57,700 --> 00:04:59,780 Abdelbaset al-Megrahi? 70 00:05:05,660 --> 00:05:06,740 Guilty. 71 00:05:24,260 --> 00:05:25,500 He can't be... 72 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:26,820 He can't... 73 00:05:31,540 --> 00:05:34,940 for the crime of murder is 20 years... 74 00:05:38,980 --> 00:05:40,660 life imprisonment... 75 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:46,460 and that is the sentence that we impose. 76 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:06,700 Jim? 77 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:10,980 Jim! Quick, get someone, please! He's collapsed. 78 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:12,180 Please, help me. 79 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:13,796 - Please, help me. - Can we get someone in here? 80 00:06:13,820 --> 00:06:14,980 Please get someone. 81 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:17,020 Jim, Jim, it's all right. 82 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:18,500 Jim, it's all right. 83 00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:21,460 - We need a doctor! - It's all right, Jim. 84 00:06:21,580 --> 00:06:22,620 Please... 85 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:48,620 Coming to us live from New York. 86 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:54,020 Reports are reaching us of a collision involving a passenger plane 87 00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:57,380 which appears to have struck the World Trade Center. 88 00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,540 Let's go over to our colleagues in New York. 89 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:00,740 Southern tip of Manhattan, 90 00:07:00,860 --> 00:07:02,860 you're looking at the World Trade Center. 91 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:06,780 We understand that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center. 92 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:08,380 We don't know anything more than that. 93 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:10,660 We don't know if it was a commercial aircraft. 94 00:07:10,780 --> 00:07:12,580 We don't know if it was a private aircraft. 95 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:15,300 {\an8}We have no idea how many were on board, 96 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:18,660 {\an8}or what the extent of the injuries are right now. 97 00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:22,780 {\an8}- Oh! Oh, my God! - A second plane. 98 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:25,940 {\an8}It looks like a second plane has hit 99 00:07:26,060 --> 00:07:28,340 {\an8}the south tower of the World Trade Center. 100 00:07:29,660 --> 00:07:31,460 Oh, my God... 101 00:07:31,580 --> 00:07:35,340 It looks to be a passenger jet. 102 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:37,380 The second plane... 103 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:48,460 Fucking terrorists. 104 00:07:49,780 --> 00:07:51,860 Good luck with your appeal now. 105 00:07:57,020 --> 00:07:58,460 These acts of mass murder 106 00:07:58,580 --> 00:08:02,700 were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. 107 00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:03,980 But they have failed. 108 00:08:08,780 --> 00:08:13,260 These terrorists will regard us all as targets. 109 00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:14,540 The war on Muslim terror. 110 00:08:14,660 --> 00:08:15,980 Forget political correctness. 111 00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:17,980 - Racially profile... - Racial factor. 112 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,436 {\an8}- The number of hate crimes... - Another mosque vandalized. 113 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:22,300 {\an8}For attempted arson attacks on Arab businesses. 114 00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:23,580 {\an8}Muslims shot dead... 115 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:24,796 Muslims threatened with gunfire. 116 00:08:24,820 --> 00:08:26,156 {\an8}- The target of hate... - War on terror... 117 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:28,540 {\an8}- War on terror. - Terrorist... 118 00:08:28,660 --> 00:08:30,980 {\an8}Terrorism must be fought resolutely. 119 00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:32,620 {\an8}We will find those who did it. 120 00:08:32,740 --> 00:08:36,700 {\an8}We will smoke them out of their holes and we'll bring them to justice. 121 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:39,020 {\an8}After a year of witnesses testifying, 122 00:08:39,140 --> 00:08:41,780 al-Megrahi's appeal against his life sentence 123 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:43,660 was refused earlier today 124 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:46,860 by a panel of five judges at Camp Zeist, 125 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:49,300 who concluded that none of the grounds 126 00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:51,380 of his appeal were well-founded. 127 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:53,220 No surprises there. 128 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:55,420 Mr. Al-Megrahi has been flown to Scotland, 129 00:08:55,540 --> 00:08:58,100 where he will serve his 20-year life term 130 00:08:58,220 --> 00:09:00,860 here at Barlinnie Prison, 131 00:09:00,980 --> 00:09:02,460 outside Glasgow. 132 00:09:11,140 --> 00:09:13,220 You better fucking watch yourself. 133 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:15,780 Youse gonna die, you dirty rag-head! 134 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:19,940 - Welcome to Scotland. - You're screwed, pal. 135 00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:42,300 If you want room service, just ring. 136 00:09:51,380 --> 00:09:53,140 How are you, darling? 137 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:57,260 - Exhausted, sleep deprived... - Doesn't show. 138 00:09:58,180 --> 00:10:00,380 Much. 139 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:07,140 Do you mind her being in here? 140 00:10:07,260 --> 00:10:08,860 Her name's Isabel, Jim. 141 00:10:10,780 --> 00:10:14,300 It's a bit odd, but I know why you've done it. 142 00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:17,660 I want this room used again. 143 00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:22,860 How are you, Dad? 144 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:25,340 Oh, you know... 145 00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:28,180 No, I don't. 146 00:10:30,340 --> 00:10:32,780 It's very difficult, obviously. 147 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:34,220 Megrahi lost his appeal. 148 00:10:34,340 --> 00:10:36,220 He's in prison now over two months. 149 00:10:36,340 --> 00:10:38,140 Shall we go downstairs, let her sleep? 150 00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:39,780 But trying to get any information 151 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:41,420 about how he is, is proving impossible. 152 00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:43,740 You're still convinced of his innocence? 153 00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:49,660 Of course. You only have to look at his failed appeal. 154 00:10:49,780 --> 00:10:51,180 All kinds of new evidence heard, 155 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:53,540 new information about the shopkeeper, Heathrow... 156 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,820 You know there was a break-in. 157 00:10:55,940 --> 00:10:57,020 He has to appeal again. 158 00:10:57,140 --> 00:10:59,180 - He has to... - Jim! Jim! Jim, please. 159 00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:19,340 - Hello? - Hey, Jim. Good news. 160 00:11:19,460 --> 00:11:20,340 I've just heard Megrahi 161 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:22,380 is being granted application for a second appeal. 162 00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:23,860 Oh, that is fantastic. 163 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:25,460 He's also got rid of his legal team, 164 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,220 hired a new lawyer, Roddy McGill. 165 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:28,780 He was with Fhimah's defense team. 166 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:31,820 Yeah, well, Megrahi is obviously hoping for the Midas touch. 167 00:11:31,940 --> 00:11:33,380 Also, Jim, I found a detective 168 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:34,980 who was on the original investigation. 169 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:36,140 He wants to talk. 170 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:37,340 Oh, I've gotta go. 171 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:53,980 Bryan? 172 00:11:54,740 --> 00:11:56,380 What the hell are you doing here? 173 00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:58,660 - I said no. - You phoned me. 174 00:11:58,820 --> 00:12:00,420 Aye, then I thought better of it. 175 00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:01,340 Now, fuck off. 176 00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:04,780 Look, I remember talking to you a few weeks after Lockerbie 177 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:06,420 about the FBI, CIA. 178 00:12:06,540 --> 00:12:08,260 Possible interference in the investigation. 179 00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:09,420 Evidence tampering. 180 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:12,260 I can't speak to you. I'm still with the force. 181 00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:14,300 Why call me out of the blue 14 years later? 182 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:17,260 You know there's been a cover up, don't you? 183 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:20,620 You're looking in the wrong place. 184 00:12:21,180 --> 00:12:22,340 What do you mean? 185 00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:27,700 Bryan... 186 00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:29,100 What do you mean? 187 00:12:31,260 --> 00:12:32,460 What do you mean? 188 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:40,660 Your source pan out? 189 00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:43,620 Uh, no. He got spooked. 190 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:46,180 But I'll give it a couple of days 191 00:12:47,180 --> 00:12:48,500 and try again. 192 00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:49,940 I'd drop it, Guthrie. 193 00:12:50,060 --> 00:12:51,420 There are bigger things going on. 194 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,140 Mr. McGill. I've got a Jim Swire here. 195 00:13:55,260 --> 00:13:57,060 It's very good to meet you, Mr. McGill. 196 00:13:57,180 --> 00:13:59,900 Congratulations on getting Fhimah off. 197 00:14:00,020 --> 00:14:02,700 Well, we're hoping for a repeat performance. 198 00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:07,540 Shona Randall, my senior associate. 199 00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:09,100 John Ashton, our researcher. 200 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:15,260 As you can see, we're targeting the prosecution's weak spots. 201 00:14:15,380 --> 00:14:17,500 Tony Gauci being a big one. 202 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:19,460 I see you have Robert Baer's name there. 203 00:14:19,580 --> 00:14:22,300 Ex-CIA case officer who was based in the Middle East. 204 00:14:22,420 --> 00:14:23,780 You certainly need to talk to him. 205 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,380 What he says in that book about Iran being behind the bomb 206 00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:27,940 is potentially game-changing. 207 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:31,580 Yeah, I know. But I've had no response from him or his publisher. 208 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:33,700 I do know he happens to have a book tour coming up. 209 00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:38,900 What are Megrahi's chances? 210 00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:40,540 I'd say it's pretty good. 211 00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:41,996 But it's up to the Scottish Criminal 212 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:44,140 Cases Review Commission, not us. 213 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:46,100 I will never understand it. 214 00:14:46,220 --> 00:14:47,820 The prosecution built its entire case 215 00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:49,356 around the claim that they acted together. 216 00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,260 I mean, even the UN observer and the trial 217 00:14:51,380 --> 00:14:53,860 questioned how the judges came up with guilty in one case 218 00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:55,100 and not guilty in the other. 219 00:14:55,140 --> 00:14:58,900 Well, we need to make sure the Review Commission sees the absurdity of that. 220 00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:00,980 It's a total miscarriage of justice. 221 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,740 As you can see, Dr. Swire, we're in the midst of doing exactly that. 222 00:15:09,980 --> 00:15:11,580 I want to visit Mr. Megrahi. 223 00:15:15,140 --> 00:15:17,700 I fought long and hard for that trial. 224 00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:21,020 I want to meet him. 225 00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:31,860 All that blood on his hands. 226 00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:37,980 How can you, of all people, 227 00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:39,860 be able to be in the same room as him? 228 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:37,820 Did you kill my daughter? 229 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:44,940 No. 230 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:47,700 I did not. 231 00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:56,220 Forgive me. I had to hear you say it. 232 00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:58,300 Sometimes... 233 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,580 it is best to be direct. 234 00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:04,700 You must have other questions. 235 00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:06,540 Ask. 236 00:17:10,340 --> 00:17:11,340 How are you? 237 00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:13,820 I will spend 20 years in a foreign jail 238 00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:17,060 for a crime I did not commit. 239 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:21,860 My family have had to move to this foreign country 240 00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:24,660 where they are abused and attacked daily. 241 00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:29,620 I can't imagine what it must be like for you, being in here. 242 00:17:29,740 --> 00:17:32,300 With your family having to suffer there. 243 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:33,860 Especially knowing what I know now. 244 00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:34,980 What do you know now? 245 00:17:35,060 --> 00:17:36,700 That the case against you is a sham. 246 00:17:36,820 --> 00:17:38,460 A travesty of justice. 247 00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,740 And I will do everything in my power to help you, Mr. Megrahi. 248 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,260 Get your conviction overturned. 249 00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:50,940 I am intrigued. 250 00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:54,380 It is to absolve your guilt? 251 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:57,580 Like I said, Dr. Swire, 252 00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,380 sometimes it's best to be direct. 253 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,820 You are here partly because of my actions. 254 00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:03,980 Not a day goes by 255 00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:05,660 without my bitterly regretting that. 256 00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:08,660 I was led to believe that 257 00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:10,660 the evidence against you was watertight. 258 00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:12,100 Incontestable. 259 00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:14,420 Yes, they did their best. 260 00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:19,340 They lied, deceived. They succeeded. 261 00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:25,540 Dr. Swire... 262 00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:28,340 my country Libya is paying for my legal fees. 263 00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:33,060 I have new legal team after the failure 264 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:36,100 of my first appeal. 265 00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:38,140 So, please tell me, 266 00:18:38,860 --> 00:18:41,060 why do I need you to help me? 267 00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:45,780 What do you expect, Dr. Swire? 268 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,260 I would embrace you as my savior? 269 00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:50,860 No, that's not what I expect at all. 270 00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:56,220 I have to do something. 271 00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:57,980 Because if you do not... 272 00:18:58,820 --> 00:19:01,660 you may never find out who killed your daughter. 273 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:05,340 Yes. 274 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,260 So in truth, it's not about me at all, is it, Dr. Swire? 275 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:14,020 Perhaps not. 276 00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:17,140 Not entirely. 277 00:19:21,380 --> 00:19:23,700 I wear this badge for my daughter. 278 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,580 And now I wear it also for you, Mr. Megrahi. 279 00:19:30,820 --> 00:19:32,940 And simply for what it says. 280 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,220 The truth must be known. 281 00:19:43,420 --> 00:19:44,460 Please... 282 00:19:46,460 --> 00:19:47,900 call me Baset. 283 00:19:57,060 --> 00:19:59,220 I thought I might find you here. 284 00:20:00,140 --> 00:20:02,940 You're hard to get hold of these days. 285 00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:04,300 Good to see you, Jim. 286 00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:06,380 How long has it been? Nearly a year. 287 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:07,860 Something like that. 288 00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:09,220 You on your way to Skye? 289 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:11,060 I visited Barlinnie this morning. 290 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:15,260 You never cease to amaze. 291 00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:18,620 What if I got you an interview with Baset? 292 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:21,500 - Baset? - I can arrange it. 293 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:23,380 I can speak to him, speak to his appeal team. 294 00:20:23,420 --> 00:20:25,300 Megrahi's not news, Jim. 295 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:29,900 The last time I wrote anything about Lockerbie, 296 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:31,900 buried on page eight, two columns. 297 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:34,820 The world and my editor wants 9/11 and the war on terror. 298 00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:37,780 - I'm being left behind... - You can interview both of us. 299 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,020 The father of Flora Swire 300 00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,676 and the innocent man convicted of her murder. 301 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:42,780 Then the press would murder you, Jim. 302 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:46,060 Believe me, that's not the exposure you're wanting. 303 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:50,740 The... Look, Jim... 304 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:58,340 The thing is, most people think he did it. 305 00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:05,660 And now most people just want to forget. 306 00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:15,300 Bye, darling. Take care. I love you. 307 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:16,780 Drive safely now. 308 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,060 I do. 309 00:22:14,420 --> 00:22:16,020 How was Cathy? Isabel? 310 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,420 What? 311 00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:25,500 It saddens me you have to ask that. 312 00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:28,620 They're fine, Jim. 313 00:22:34,740 --> 00:22:35,740 How is he? 314 00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:38,180 Struggling. 315 00:22:40,820 --> 00:22:42,980 I think he appreciated my visit. 316 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:51,380 Did you not want me to go? 317 00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:55,380 I'm not sure it matters what I say anymore. 318 00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:00,900 He's all you talk about. You know that, don't you? 319 00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,660 I'm trying to get him freed. 320 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:09,500 You've not asked one of us directly what we think. 321 00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:13,220 You've never wanted to sit down and discuss it as a family. 322 00:23:13,340 --> 00:23:15,660 You just assume we're behind you, Supporting you. 323 00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:17,900 Is that what the children think? 324 00:23:21,740 --> 00:23:23,740 Why can't they just come and speak to me? 325 00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:26,540 Because they don't think you listen, Jim, and you don't. 326 00:23:27,620 --> 00:23:30,180 You haven't noticed they hardly come here anymore. 327 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:35,020 There are too many bad memories. 328 00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:36,580 But this this is where they grew up. 329 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:38,380 This is where they all grew up. 330 00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:47,300 I think we should move. 331 00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:50,380 I'm not leaving this house! 332 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:51,980 I want to be closer to my children, 333 00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,620 to my grandchildren. 334 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,620 I want to be around life, not death. 335 00:23:56,740 --> 00:23:59,780 Not death every single minute of the day. 336 00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:11,500 Would I rejoin the CIA if I was asked? 337 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:14,780 With all due respect, 338 00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:17,660 have you read any of my books? 339 00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:25,060 Thank you. 340 00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:30,420 Jim Swire, as I live and breathe. 341 00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:32,980 Professional thorn in the side, just like me. How are you? 342 00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:34,220 It's good to meet you, Bob. 343 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:36,380 This is John Ashton from Megrahi's appeal team. 344 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:37,780 Of course. 345 00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:38,940 Let me finish up here. 346 00:24:39,060 --> 00:24:41,900 I'll meet you guys in the next room to this in ten. 347 00:24:42,020 --> 00:24:43,020 No prying ears. 348 00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:45,580 Damn good to meet you, Jim. 349 00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:48,740 Look, Lockerbie is very simple. 350 00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:50,580 It was Iran's revenge. 351 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,700 For the Americans shooting down their Airbus. 352 00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:54,180 Like I say in the book, 353 00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:56,180 the CIA had known about it all along. 354 00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,460 The bombing of Flight 103 was conceived, 355 00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:00,540 authorized and financed by Iran. 356 00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:03,580 They paid the Syrian-based PFLP-GC to do it. 357 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:06,380 The bomb was made by a PFLP-GC bomb maker, 358 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,420 a Jordanian named Marwan Khreesat. 359 00:25:08,540 --> 00:25:10,940 We know that they were raided by German police 360 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:12,340 in October 1988. 361 00:25:12,460 --> 00:25:13,916 - The Autumn Leaves operation. - Yeah. 362 00:25:13,940 --> 00:25:15,476 They arrested some of their main players, 363 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:16,940 but others slipped through the net. 364 00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:19,380 They only found four explosive devices. 365 00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:20,780 Lost track of the fifth. 366 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:24,420 I believe that was the bomb that killed your daughter, Jim. 367 00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:26,340 Your guy, Megrahi, 368 00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:27,740 had nothing to do with it. 369 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,220 You talk about a meeting. 370 00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:32,580 The Iranians met with the PFLP-GC people in Beirut. 371 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:35,180 We had telephone intercepts of them discussing it. 372 00:25:36,780 --> 00:25:38,420 Two days after Lockerbie, 373 00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:42,380 Iran transferred $11 million into a PFLP-GC bank account. 374 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:48,300 We have records of the transfer. 375 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:52,260 Hell, we had ironclad proof. 376 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:54,980 Handed over our intel to the US Administration. 377 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:56,220 What did they do? 378 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:58,580 One look, quietly shelved it. 379 00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:00,500 - Why? - There were bigger problems. 380 00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,340 Like Saddam Hussein. 381 00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:06,500 Once he invaded Kuwait in 1990, suddenly everything changed. 382 00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:09,420 We were at war, and we needed Iran and Syria on our side, 383 00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:11,580 so the heat was off them, sands shifted. 384 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:12,980 They pointed the finger at Libya. 385 00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:15,180 A rogue state, proven terrorist links, 386 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:16,796 developing weapons of mass destruction. 387 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:18,900 Gaddafi was the top of our hit list. 388 00:26:19,020 --> 00:26:21,220 Plus, we needed to throw some kind of bone 389 00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:23,300 to the victims' grieving families. 390 00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:26,580 Libya was that bone. 391 00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:31,460 This has to go into the submission, John. 392 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:33,380 The Review Commission have to know about this. 393 00:26:33,460 --> 00:26:34,660 Would you speak to them? 394 00:26:34,780 --> 00:26:35,900 Go on the record? 395 00:26:36,020 --> 00:26:37,236 Sure, I'll talk to whoever you want, 396 00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:38,740 but it won't make a difference. 397 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:40,780 Right now, Libya is right where we want them. 398 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,380 Tomorrow, that could all be flipped. 399 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:45,540 Libya has oil, remember. 400 00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:47,820 Suddenly Gaddafi will be back in favor, 401 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:50,020 or he'll buy his way back into favor. 402 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:53,580 And Megrahi will stay guilty for as long as they need him to. 403 00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:59,060 It's all transactional, Jim, so tread carefully. 404 00:26:59,180 --> 00:27:00,276 You don't want to be on loose footing 405 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:01,940 when the sands shift. 406 00:27:06,860 --> 00:27:09,940 There it is, our full report ready to be submitted 407 00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:12,420 to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission. 408 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:14,020 Where's the champagne, then? 409 00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:16,700 On ice. For now, it's the pub. 410 00:27:16,820 --> 00:27:19,140 We have to get it accepted first. 411 00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:25,540 We appreciate what you've gone through to help out. 412 00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:28,100 How long will it take the Review Commission to decide? 413 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,740 Well, they're professionals, they know what they're doing. 414 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:35,500 Thank you. 415 00:27:35,620 --> 00:27:38,340 McGILL: It's a man's incarceration we're talking about 416 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:41,500 I'd say a year... 417 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:44,500 maybe less. 418 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:10,620 McGILL: They took their time... 419 00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:15,740 but the Review Commission have finally delivered their statement of reasons. 420 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:20,340 They rejected all of our submissions. 421 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:22,660 - Oh, no. - Shit. 422 00:28:27,340 --> 00:28:28,540 Apart from six. 423 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:38,300 Six grounds for referral back to an Appeal Court. 424 00:28:39,780 --> 00:28:41,420 The first ground of referral. 425 00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:43,020 Unreasonable verdict. 426 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:44,580 The judges were satisfied 427 00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:46,900 the purchase of clothing was made from Gauci's shop 428 00:28:47,020 --> 00:28:51,140 on December 7th, 1988, when Megrahi was in Malta. 429 00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:54,420 But Tony Gauci was never clear on the exact purchase date. 430 00:28:54,540 --> 00:28:56,300 He tell the court a Libyan customer 431 00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:57,700 buy umbrella from his shop 432 00:28:57,820 --> 00:28:59,620 because it's raining outside. 433 00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:02,980 My defense team called in Malta's chief meteorologist... 434 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,140 Who said there was no rain on the 7th of December. 435 00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:06,300 Yes, but... 436 00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:10,180 there was rain on the 23rd of November. 437 00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:11,980 The only other potential purchase date 438 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:13,740 matching Gauci's statement... 439 00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:18,580 and I was not on Malta on the 23rd of November. 440 00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:21,460 - Baset? - Please... 441 00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:22,780 I must use bathroom. 442 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,420 McGILL: Referral grounds two and three, 443 00:29:25,540 --> 00:29:27,340 undisclosed evidence relating 444 00:29:27,460 --> 00:29:30,180 to Gauci's identification of Megrahi, 445 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:33,740 and the date when the clothes were purchased from his shop. 446 00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:36,660 Thank you. 447 00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:40,100 When the Commission looked into this, 448 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:44,820 they found that Gauci actually gave 23 statements, 449 00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:46,900 and he was visited by the Scottish Police, Jim, 450 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:50,100 - more than 50 times. Fifty. - Fifty? 451 00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:52,180 You remember, only 19 of his statements 452 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:53,500 were given to my defense team. 453 00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:57,580 The details of these meetings, they have never been revealed. 454 00:29:57,700 --> 00:29:59,420 What else did Gauci claim in them, I wonder? 455 00:29:59,460 --> 00:30:01,940 By withholding this information, 456 00:30:02,060 --> 00:30:07,020 the Crown denied the defense items of real importance, 457 00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:09,340 in undermining the Crown case. 458 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:10,620 Fourth referral. 459 00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:14,100 Undisclosed evidence about Gauci's interest in rewards. 460 00:30:14,220 --> 00:30:18,060 The commission discovered three Scottish police documents 461 00:30:18,180 --> 00:30:20,460 that suggested that Gauci... 462 00:30:20,580 --> 00:30:23,580 Gauci was aware that a substantial reward 463 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:25,780 was on offer from the US Government. 464 00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:28,660 A reward for giving evidence? 465 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:30,820 Jesus! Did he get paid? 466 00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:32,620 Referral five. 467 00:30:32,740 --> 00:30:35,540 Undisclosed secret intelligence documents. 468 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:37,580 Last year, the Crown informed the commission 469 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:41,340 of two classified documents held at Dumfries police station. 470 00:30:41,980 --> 00:30:43,860 The commission believes non-disclosure 471 00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:45,740 of one of the documents indicates... 472 00:30:46,980 --> 00:30:49,140 that a miscarriage of justice may have occurred. 473 00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:51,420 That is what we were waiting for. 474 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:52,780 Music to my ears. 475 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,140 It's all centered, everything, on Gauci's evidence. 476 00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:58,460 They seem to have dismissed pretty much everything else. 477 00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:00,860 There's nothing here about Robert Baer, PFLP-GC. 478 00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:03,980 There's nothing whatsoever about the timer fragment. 479 00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:10,860 You're frustrated. 480 00:31:11,540 --> 00:31:13,380 {\an8}I'm happy for you, of course, I am. 481 00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:15,820 But there's nothing in here 482 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:17,780 that helps us discover what did happen. 483 00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:20,180 Nothing that gets us closer to the truth. 484 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:24,420 You would say one step at a time. 485 00:31:24,540 --> 00:31:26,180 So, Jim, one step at a time. 486 00:31:50,860 --> 00:31:53,060 I didn't think I'd see you again. 487 00:31:54,620 --> 00:31:56,500 So you left the Dumfries force? 488 00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:00,780 Megrahi got his second appeal. 489 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:01,980 Second appeal? 490 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:03,700 Possible miscarriage of justice. 491 00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:07,700 And the Crown with a hell of a lot of questions to answer. 492 00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:10,060 Including one about undisclosed secret documents 493 00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:12,100 held at your police station. 494 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,100 I'll drive. You talk. 495 00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:20,100 One of these documents is a letter from the King of Jordan 496 00:32:20,140 --> 00:32:21,980 to the then Prime Minister John Major, 497 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:24,740 intimating that the Libyans were innocent of the crime. 498 00:32:25,060 --> 00:32:27,300 It points the finger at the PFLP-GC 499 00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:28,980 and the bomb maker Marwan Khreesat, 500 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:30,300 who is believed by many, 501 00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:32,300 including and according to Robert Baer 502 00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:33,540 and most of the CIA, 503 00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:36,580 to have built the bomb that brought down Flight 103. 504 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:39,860 Now, these documents were known to the Crown during the trial, 505 00:32:39,980 --> 00:32:41,660 and they withheld them from the defense. 506 00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:43,540 We're still not allowed to see them. 507 00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:45,100 So what are we talking about here? 508 00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:46,340 A cover up? 509 00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:47,460 Was Megrahi framed? 510 00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:49,900 Whatever it is, they want to keep it buried. 511 00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:51,300 It's mucky as hell. 512 00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:53,300 So why are you still standing here? 513 00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:56,780 Go and talk to people and find out what they're not telling us. 514 00:32:57,860 --> 00:32:59,460 Then write the bloody thing. 515 00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:07,140 Jim, it's Murray. 516 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:08,620 Good to hear from you, Murray. 517 00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:11,420 Wait till you hear what I've got for you. 518 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:13,020 Front page? 519 00:33:13,140 --> 00:33:14,540 Without a doubt. 520 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:23,860 What do you mean we can't publish it? 521 00:33:25,220 --> 00:33:26,980 - We want to... - But you can't. 522 00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:29,340 Phil Marsden, our lawyer. 523 00:33:29,460 --> 00:33:30,460 Why the hell not? 524 00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:33,460 We ran the story past the FCO for comment. 525 00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:35,940 I got a call back threatening legal action. 526 00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:37,556 You don't think that's just scare tactics? 527 00:33:37,580 --> 00:33:39,540 The Foreign Secretary David Miliband, 528 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:41,580 has issued a public interest 529 00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:44,060 immunity certificate, a PII. 530 00:33:44,180 --> 00:33:46,020 For reasons of national security. 531 00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:49,060 To protect the contents of certain documents. 532 00:33:49,180 --> 00:33:51,940 These documents your source is talking about 533 00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:53,300 may well be the same ones 534 00:33:53,420 --> 00:33:56,220 Megrahi's defense team were denied access to 535 00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:57,740 under that PII. 536 00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:04,060 We're still going to print it, right? 537 00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:05,356 Publish and be damned and all that. 538 00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:07,700 You'll be damned, and I'll be sued. 539 00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:09,060 And your legal fees alone 540 00:34:09,180 --> 00:34:10,860 will mean this newspaper goes down. 541 00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:18,036 I just don't get it. The documents in that safe, 542 00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:20,340 - they're over 20 years old. - Makes no matter. 543 00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:22,380 This is the long arm of the state. 544 00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:28,340 For national security, read intelligence services, MI6, 545 00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:29,900 CIA, who knows who else? 546 00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:31,036 Protected like they always are... 547 00:34:31,060 --> 00:34:32,100 You said you'd publish it. 548 00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:33,796 You phoned me up and you told me you'd publish it. 549 00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:34,900 - Yeah, I know, but... - No. 550 00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:36,076 You have to take it somewhere else. 551 00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,380 Someone will print it. Someone not afraid of them. 552 00:34:39,420 --> 00:34:40,900 Not gonna do that. 553 00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:46,740 Give it to me. 554 00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:48,580 I will. 555 00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:52,180 I'm not going to let them get away with it. 556 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:53,940 This is serious. 557 00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:55,860 You need to see sense. You could be sued. 558 00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:57,100 I could be sued. 559 00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:12,460 You ever think this might be a lost cause, Jim? 560 00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:17,020 That they will never allow us to know the truth? 561 00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:21,100 I never thought I'd hear you say that. 562 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:33,420 I'm so sorry, but it's cancer. 563 00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:35,740 Prostate cancer. 564 00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:47,620 Will he survive? 565 00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:52,140 I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. 566 00:35:53,220 --> 00:35:54,220 I'm sorry. 567 00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:11,860 How is he? 568 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:28,780 Thank you. 569 00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:35,100 How're you doing? 570 00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:39,260 Please, go sit down. 571 00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:41,420 Okay. I can do it. I can do it. 572 00:36:50,460 --> 00:36:51,460 You have been told? 573 00:36:52,140 --> 00:36:53,140 Yes. 574 00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:57,060 Is it? 575 00:36:57,980 --> 00:36:59,100 Severe? 576 00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:00,980 Yes. Yes, it is. 577 00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:05,380 But I've had patients who fought their cancer, who beat it. 578 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,380 And you, Baset, you're a fighter. 579 00:37:20,860 --> 00:37:22,500 I don't want to die here, Jim. 580 00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:24,580 I don't want that either. 581 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,820 I don't want my family to see me die here. 582 00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:32,100 I want to go home to die. 583 00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:41,340 Jim... 584 00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:51,900 the UK and Libya are negotiating a prisoner transfer agreement. 585 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:53,700 I heard. 586 00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:56,140 I will be instructing my Libyan lawyers 587 00:37:56,260 --> 00:37:58,060 to make an application to... 588 00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:03,500 return home and serve whatever time I have left there. 589 00:38:04,660 --> 00:38:06,140 And what about your appeal? 590 00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:10,860 You think I would give it up? 591 00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:16,060 If Prisoner Transfer is granted, you'll be in Libya. 592 00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:18,460 Jim... 593 00:38:20,780 --> 00:38:25,980 look, I have said to you before, I will say it again. 594 00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:30,500 I will not go down in history as a Lockerbie bomber. 595 00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:34,380 I will not let them do that to me. 596 00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:36,780 I will never give up my appeal. 597 00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:42,820 Whether I am here, in Libya, dead or alive... 598 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:45,300 my appeal will go to court. 599 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:50,500 Trust me and you will get what you want. 600 00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:03,900 My name will be cleared, 601 00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:06,860 and you will go on and find out who really did this. 602 00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:17,540 McGILL: Baset, I'm afraid there's a problem. 603 00:39:21,660 --> 00:39:22,980 Under Scottish law, 604 00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:27,660 to be considered for a PT, 605 00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:31,460 a prisoner can't have an appeal ongoing. 606 00:39:33,740 --> 00:39:35,420 You'd have to give it up. 607 00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:40,420 Baset, there is another way. 608 00:39:41,540 --> 00:39:43,620 You're released on compassionate grounds. 609 00:39:43,740 --> 00:39:46,580 You'll be examined by three separate doctors 610 00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:50,260 who will decide how long you have to live. 611 00:39:52,380 --> 00:39:54,740 And if it's less than three months, 612 00:39:54,860 --> 00:39:56,940 then there's a good possibility 613 00:39:57,060 --> 00:40:01,460 that you will return home and you can keep your appeal. 614 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:04,380 These are the options. 615 00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:06,860 You must decide. 616 00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:11,100 Well, we have beliefs and values in Scotland 617 00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:12,860 that those who perpetrate crimes, 618 00:40:12,980 --> 00:40:14,780 certainly heinous atrocities such as this, 619 00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:16,540 should be brought to justice. 620 00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:17,780 That has been done. 621 00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:19,380 {\an8}Equally, we recognize that justice 622 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:21,260 {\an8}has to be tempered by mercy. 623 00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:23,820 That there has to be the ability to recognize 624 00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:26,780 that although he did not show compassion to the victims, 625 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:28,180 that doesn't mean that we should 626 00:40:28,220 --> 00:40:29,900 lower our beliefs or our values. 627 00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:31,740 A campaign for the release of the man 628 00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:34,380 convicted of the Lockerbie bombing was launched today. 629 00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:37,260 Justice for Megrahi is appealing for the early release 630 00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:40,060 of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds. 631 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:43,260 I just think it is absolutely wrong to release someone 632 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:47,260 who has been imprisoned based on evidence, 633 00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:50,580 about his involvement in such a horrendous crime. 634 00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:52,420 I think this is a very bad decision. 635 00:40:52,540 --> 00:40:55,900 {\an8}This man was convicted of murdering 270 people. 636 00:40:57,140 --> 00:40:58,780 {\an8}Some claim economic influences 637 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:00,140 were key to the deal struck 638 00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:03,220 by Tony Blair and Colonel Gaddafi on the potential release 639 00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:06,380 of the Lockerbie bomber, the so-called "deal in the desert." 640 00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:07,940 The fact that Libyan oil reserves 641 00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:09,100 are now understood 642 00:41:09,220 --> 00:41:11,180 to be far greater than they may have been 643 00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:12,580 {\an8}thought to have been in the past 644 00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:14,260 {\an8}shouldn't be overlooked. 645 00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:16,340 Megrahi will continue with his appeal, 646 00:41:16,460 --> 00:41:18,180 and regardless of opinion on his conviction, 647 00:41:18,260 --> 00:41:19,900 that the Justice For Megrahi campaign 648 00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:23,340 urges the Scottish government to send Mr. Megrahi back to Libya 649 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:24,700 on compassionate grounds. 650 00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:40,500 Jim, take it off. 651 00:41:41,020 --> 00:41:43,060 Please. Not here. Not today. 652 00:41:43,180 --> 00:41:44,380 I'm not ashamed. 653 00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:46,620 I'll look them in the eye. 654 00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:47,900 For us. 655 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:49,740 Do it for us. 656 00:41:57,780 --> 00:42:00,540 John Michael Gerad Ahern. 657 00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:04,140 Sarah Margaret Aicher. 658 00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:07,940 John David Ackerstrom. 659 00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:10,540 Ronald Ely Alexander. 660 00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:14,500 Thomas Joseph Ammerman. 661 00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:16,740 Bridget Concannon. 662 00:42:17,260 --> 00:42:19,180 Thomas Concannon. 663 00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:21,860 Roger Ellwood Hurst. 664 00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:25,100 Elizabeth Sophie Ivell. 665 00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:27,740 Andrew Alexander Teran. 666 00:42:28,620 --> 00:42:31,780 Arva Anthony Thomas. 667 00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:34,860 Jonathan Ryan Thomas. 668 00:42:34,980 --> 00:42:38,780 Flora MacDonald Margaret Swire. 669 00:42:48,540 --> 00:42:50,620 I don't know what he thinks he's doing. 670 00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:54,060 This should be about remembrance, not politics. 671 00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:56,220 I can't believe he's here. 672 00:42:57,540 --> 00:42:59,700 It's a disgrace. He's befriended a killer. 673 00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:28,100 Lovely to see you again. Thank you... 674 00:43:31,060 --> 00:43:32,820 I've got four of them now. 675 00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,500 Four grandkids myself actually. Yeah... 676 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:40,620 Is it Ellen? 677 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:43,180 Jane's spoken a lot about you. 678 00:43:43,220 --> 00:43:44,860 Sorry. This is Jim, my husband. 679 00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:46,220 Yes, I know. 680 00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:47,380 Hello, Jim. 681 00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:53,260 Look, I'm sorry, I think we're running low on hot water. 682 00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:54,980 I'll see you shortly. 683 00:44:01,380 --> 00:44:02,540 I'd like to go. 684 00:44:08,460 --> 00:44:11,700 Everyone here agrees with me, the world agrees. 685 00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:13,980 Releasing Megrahi would be insane, 686 00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:16,100 immoral, reprehensible. 687 00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:19,140 He has to serve his time here in Scotland. 688 00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:22,100 Then they can send his ashes back to Libya in a casket. 689 00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:26,820 Jim... Jim... 690 00:44:36,060 --> 00:44:38,236 Can't you see it from their point of view for one second? 691 00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:40,340 It is so completely irrational. 692 00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:42,700 Oh, who are you to decide what's rational or irrational? 693 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:45,620 Maybe this appeal isn't rational to them. 694 00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:47,180 Maybe none of this is rational 695 00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:49,420 to people who process their grief by moving forwards 696 00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:52,140 rather than scrambling around in the past. 697 00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:54,020 They're hurt and they're angry. 698 00:44:54,140 --> 00:44:55,500 And completely fixated on one man. 699 00:44:55,620 --> 00:44:57,140 Not like you, then? 700 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:06,580 That's how they cope. 701 00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:07,740 This is how you cope. 702 00:45:07,860 --> 00:45:08,980 I am not coping. 703 00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:10,820 Yes, of course. You're doing this for Flora. 704 00:45:10,860 --> 00:45:12,180 What you always say. 705 00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:15,460 But it's not about Flora anymore, Jim. 706 00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:18,180 It's not even about him. 707 00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:23,900 You have visitors. 708 00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,740 You're just doing anything you can to avoid grieving. 709 00:45:28,860 --> 00:45:29,900 That is simply not true. 710 00:45:30,020 --> 00:45:32,900 Jim, you can't sit still. 711 00:45:33,660 --> 00:45:35,860 You can't be silent for one moment 712 00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:38,100 to take in what happened to us. 713 00:45:38,220 --> 00:45:40,620 If you did, then you'd see the damage. 714 00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:41,996 You're saying this is my fault? 715 00:45:42,020 --> 00:45:43,620 No. I'm to blame, too. 716 00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:47,540 But you're missing everything, Jim. 717 00:45:47,660 --> 00:45:50,220 We need you now before it's too late. 718 00:45:59,620 --> 00:46:03,180 Baset has promised me he's committed to fighting this. 719 00:46:18,180 --> 00:46:19,780 Once his appeal is over, 720 00:46:20,860 --> 00:46:23,460 we will find out who really did this. 51015

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