Original subtitles

(dramatic music)

(energy surging)

- [Commentator] You talked earlier

about that record low approval rating for President Biden.

And the skepticism over his leadership extends

deep inside his own party.

Only 36% of Democrats think that their party

should nominate Joe Biden for a second term.

58% say they would support someone else.

You're seeing real weaknesses

in the coalition that powered Joe Biden

to the presidency back in in 2020.

- I've been running 350 days a year or more

since August 1, 1981.

10 years ago I learned hotel hall running.

(dramatic music)

Somebody told me very early, says,

"You know what's the most serious running injury

you can get?"

And I said, "I don't know, shin splints?

"No," he said, "getting hit by a car."

Said, "Anything you can do to avoid getting hit by a car,

endures to your benefit."

(dramatic music continues)

I'm so slow, people go, "Hey, Mr. Carville,

glad you're enjoying your afternoon walk."

You know, shit, thought I was jogging.

(James chuckling)

(dramatic music continues)

I figured out, I've run around the world, the equator,

probably one and a half times.

Back and forth.

Hotel running is easy on your joints.

You can shower right after.

There's no wind, there's no rain, there's no cold.

There's one big downside, it's not overly scenic,

but, any 79-year-old'll tell you,

they don't look at the horizon anyway,

you just look at what's in front of you

'cause you're scared you're gonna trip.

On the upside, you can't get hit by a car.

(dramatic music)

- Louisiana's gift to America, and they don't want him back,

Jimmy Carville.

(audience applauding)

- So, my first guest helped put Bill Clinton

in the White House.

- He ran the Little Rock War Room, home to the famous sign,

"It's the economy, stupid!"

- You are considered, probably, James,

the hottest political strategist in the country.

- Look, James, in all due respect, is a political hack.

- I ain't apologizing to no one for what I did

for a living and you shouldn't either

if you wanna go into politics.

(Bill hissing)

- That boy looks like he swam too close

to a nuclear reactor.

- James is affectionately known as the "Ragin' Cajun."

- [Commentator] Drag a $2 microphone through the bayou,

you just might find James Carville.

- Democrats whine too much.

(dramatic music continues)

- There are a lot of people who don't know him,

who think he tries very hard to be eccentric.

Those of us who know him, know that he's actually

trying very hard to be normal,

and just not ever getting there.

(dramatic music continues)

(audience applauding)

- [Ari] No knock on your experience,

but you've lived some history, sir.

- Too much.

- He is a dreamboat, although, we're quick to concede

that he's an acquired taste.

(both laughing)

- I always think I'm gonna win.

I never go into any contest with defeat on my mind.

You are here for a purpose.

You are here to help people.

(trolley bell chiming)

(cell phone ringing)

Hey.

So, when did you finish this national poll?

Cost of living and crime were the two biggest issues?

Right.

Yeah, undecided shouldn't be more than seven.

I'm alright.

(whimsical music)

Yeah, I'm in town until after Memorial Day.

(cell phone ringing)

Hey.

Hey, hello, Tommy Tuberville made my day.

He is a colossal fool and he doesn't know it.

Yep.

What'd you think of the inflation number?

- James has several knitting clubs.

People who he calls all day, every day, crack o' dawn,

first thing in the morning, last thing at night.

These are very deep foxhole buddies.

(cell phone ringing)

- Oh, okay. Hey, Mimi, I gotta take this.

This a business call, I gotta take this, okay.

- I can probably count on two or three hands

the number of days over the last 30 years

where I didn't speak to James at least once.

He's probably got seven dozen people on speed dial.

- Hey, gimme a call when you get a chance, thanks.

Hello.

Yes, sir!

- John Mack four times a day.

George Stephanopoulos, Paul Begala.

Butthead, I don't know Butthead's real name.

- Oh, when you're doing another poll

will you tell him to?

- He's not calling and saying, "How's your son?"

He's calling and saying, "What's going on?"

Which means, "What do you hear politically?"

"What do you think?"

"Have you seen this?"

"Did you read that?"

"Let me send you this."

- [James] Hey, you called?

- [George] James writes by talking on the phone.

That's the way his mind works.

- Most people don't know

that this Congress has failed to produce a budget.

- He works through what his message is

and you often see it then at night on television.

- There is no budget.

And we cannot let people forget that, it's very critical.

- I have talked to James Carville

every single day since 1983.

I don't miss a day, and usually, more than once a day.

He is so much more a student of the game

than people give him credit for.

He knows all your votes, all your quotes,

and they're locked in.

He is the smartest son of a bitch

who's ever done this for a living.

By the way, the percentage of people

who think Trump has the mental fitness for office

has gone up.

- I saw that.

- [Paul] He's gone up.

- That's what shook me. - That is depressing.

- That's what shook me.

- [Paul] That's depressing. Yeah.

- 'Cause people think he has energy.

"'Cause I was out there fighting."

(pensive music)

- [George] This poll is just brutal for President Biden.

- Absolutely, George.

The skepticism over his leadership

extends deep inside his own party.

A hypothetical rematch, Trump versus Biden.

Right now a seven point edge in our poll

in Trump leading Biden.

That tells us at this very early stage, George,

that this race is shaping up a lot more

about the incumbent President Joe Biden,

than it is about any of his challengers.

- May 7, 2023, that ABC-Washington Post poll,

it knocked me right off my fucking horse.

(dramatic music)

I don't think people appreciate

how bad Biden's poll numbers are.

It's like walking in on your grandmother naked.

You can't get the image outta your mind.

The American public has real doubts about this

and you can see it in poll, after poll, after poll.

- [Commentator] These polls seem to get at

the elephant in the room when it comes to President Biden.

For voters, it's his age that they're concerned about,

his mental acuity, his health.

(dramatic music continues)

- [James] How you doing?

- [Server] I'm great, Mr. Carville, how are you?

- Good, I'm wonderful.

(cell phone ringing)

Hey.

Hey, George.

- [George] That poll is getting a lot of attention, huh?

Jesus.

- It's all people are talking about.

I think if we ran somebody else, they'd get 54%.

- [George] Wow.

- All right?

- [George] 18% of the public

who thinks Trump should be charged would still vote for him.

- It's just amazing that 18% of the country

thinks he's a criminal, but they'll vote for him anyway.

- During the Clinton campaign in 1992

fundamental core tenet was change versus more of the same.

There's nothing that says more of the same,

more than Joe Biden versus Donald Trump.

And James believes that, you know, change wins.

- He reeks of yesterday, he's a stitch of yesterday.

He is so yesterday, if I think of yesterday,

if I think of an old calendar,

I think of George Bush's

face on it. - Don't let anyone

tell you that America is.

- One of the things I think in '92,

I think in 2024, "Who wins really matters."

It's very stark right now.

We got this terrible threat

of Trump coming back into office.

(soft music)

- [George] We're in unchartered territory.

- We're here?

- A lot of people are confounded by how close the race is,

given President Biden's record,

and given what we know about Donald Trump.

- He admires Biden a lot

and thinks he's been a very good president.

But, it's hard to make the case

that Joe Biden can win an easy re-election,

'cause he can't.

- [Joe] Hello, Mr. Carville,

this is Joe in the control room, are you able to hear me?

- I hear you fine, New York.

(dramatic music)

- The path to victory is his religion.

That's what he cares about.

How do you get from here to there?

And there has to be winning. - So let me bring in

the Democratic strategist, James Carville.

- There's still a lot left to go here

before the inevitable happens, I think.

- This is not a normal election.

- Right now, Jen, we're in a fight

for the Constitution of the United States.

The only hope for the United States of America

is the Democratic party, that's it.

I don't think that we have given this sufficient thought.

I think we're taking too much of a chance to lose here.

But, I've said it.

- When he speaks, people listen,

'cause he tells the truth.

But do you really think anybody is going to cast

a yes or no vote for Biden

dependent on what James Carville says?

Come on, guys, hurry up.

Come on.

- All right, I'll call you later.

Get ready for the show.

Thanks David, appreciate it, thank you.

You going to Baton Rouge, honey?

- No, the baby has pink eye.

So, no, I'm not going.

But, Mr. Wilson is giving me a private welding lesson today

and I'm gonna fix--

- Who is your what, now?

- Mr. Wilson is giving me private welding class today

and I'm gonna fix that weather vane.

(whimsical music)

This is a really nice weather vane.

I don't think I'm even gonna take the squeak out.

I like the squeak.

I'm gonna re-weld it.

De-rust it.

Pound it out.

Paint it.

What?

You have no idea how much shit I have.

- Mary was a hardcore Republican operative.

She had worked with the George H.W. Bush campaign in '92.

So, if opposites have ever attracted,

this is certainly the case.

- People know you both as the Democrat and the Republican.

And so, inevitably they wanna hear.

Tell us about the fights, tell us about the disagreements.

- Well, I was just telling her the joke,

when you're famous for a thing,

then that's what people see you as.

- Absolutely.

- We come from a different era

where you could talk about politics and you could disagree.

Cheeno is now my travel dog.

That's as hideous as our pictures are.

- They both passionately love their country.

They both passionately love politics.

They're both really expert and they're students of the game,

but, they're on different sides.

They have such a famous, I know it's like a cliche,

such a famous mixed marriage.

She's a devout Republican, he's a reptile.

And yet, they've made it work over the years.

- I'm really a conservative, he's really a liberal.

- There's three things I ain't changing.

I ain't changing wives,

I'm not changing sexual orientation,

I'm not changing political parties.

We're gonna go to the house with what we got here, okay?

- They have a deep love and a deep respect,

there's no question.

And the secret, I believe, what do I know, but,

the secret, I believe, to their marriage is,

they don't talk about politics.

- [Anderson] What is it like living with you two?

- Friday night, if we weren't with you,

we'd probably be having a good stiff drink,

which we're about to go do right now anyways.

- All right, I'll let you go do that.

Mary, thank you, James Carville, thank you.

- You bet.

- Kinda like to join 'em.

- Hey, Simon.

- Hey, James. How are you?

- I'm good.

- Your headphones aren't working then, are they?

- No, it's better with the sound,

but I think talking into this microphone helps.

- [Joe] If we're talking into this microphone and that--

- I can't hear, is that Dan talking?

- No, it's Joe.

- [Joe] Yeah, when you're listening and speaking into the.

- Okay, back now, okay?

How's now?

- If you ever wanna know why we need a president

not in his 70s, this fucking program will tell you.

(both laughing)

- Hello and welcome to "Politics War Room"

with James Carville and I'm Al Hunt.

An ABC-Washington Post poll last weekend

just ricocheted around the buddy politic.

- His Black approval is around 60%.

We're not gonna get Black turnout anywhere where we need it

in 2024 with Biden.

- [Al] And most people, including.

- James is not just a TV personality,

he uses that platform to advance political strategies,

and he's very thoughtful about what he does.

- The country's become immune

to staggering, breathtaking corruption at the Supreme Court.

- James has a unique voice, one that resonates,

not just in Democratic circles,

but Republican circles as well.

And what I've always enjoyed about his insights

and analysis is that he talks like he's a real person

because he interacts with real people.

- The only way to talk about the Republican Party

is in the past tense.

We keep thinking that they'll do the right thing.

That they're really Americans first and Republicans second.

(James blowing raspberry)

Oh, bullshit! Total bullshit!

Republicans create a lot of distractions,

and Democrats get distracted.

(dramatic music)

- [Reporter] It is a border showdown.

- We call it, "Biden migrant crime."

- Every time you hear, "Migrant crime," you think Biden.

- Deliberately releasing criminal, illegal aliens

over, and over, and over again.

- We don't need illegal aliens voting in our elections.

- As journalists, we're looking for the most colorful quote

that makes viewers actually perk up when they hear it.

The way that Carville delivers that,

he comes with the expertise,

but the package that he presents it in,

is just different than everybody else.

- There's a story that talks about Trump having hand cuts.

I think there's a good chance this man has the clap.

- There are those who suggest that somehow Taylor Swift

is fixing the Super Bowl to help Joe Biden.

- I think most of these people are sexually inadequate.

(James chuckling)

- He goes out of his way to get shit.

The man is a two fisted shit catcher, that energizes him.

- Mike Johnson, and what he believes

is one of the greatest threats we have to date

to the United States.

He tweeted out that I'd said,

"Christianity was a greater threat

to the United States than Al-Qaeda."

Of course, I never said anything.

Frankly, I think he's a human piece o' shit.

But, I thought that, I now know it.

- He'll tell you very quickly, tell the truth,

tell it like it is.

And that's what makes it funny.

That's what makes it interesting, that's what helps.

- And he gets out there with a LSU hat

and a pink sweatshirt, drooling and spitting.

Glasses so dirty, it's like insane.

Oh, my God.

But the one thing you can say about him,

he is relentlessly authentic.

- I've been more excited about colonoscopies

than he was in giving his speech tonight.

He didn't wanna be there.

- When you see James Carville,

you're looking at the face of Louisiana.

No frills, kinda straight at it.

- [Person] Hey, Mr. Carville.

- How you doing?

- [Mitch] He speaks in a way that people go,

"That guy is different."

- It's so nice

to meet you, sir. - You too. Yes sir, thank you.

- [Mitch] He is rooted in place,

and he's proud of it, as he should be.

And he thinks the rest of the country

could learn a lot from it.

(dramatic music)

- Clean up your shit.

Come on, Harry!

This is typical of what South Louisiana is like.

Water everywhere.

(DJ speaking in French)

- [DJ] Main street.

- When I was growing up, you would have the AM dial,

and it was common that you would pick up

a French language radio station.

(DJ speaking in French)

(upbeat music)

None of this was here when I grew up.

It was very rural, it was very pristine.

For whatever it's worth,

you're now officially in Carville, Louisiana.

The naming of Carville is a

interesting story because look at a map of Louisiana,

prior to 1909 it was called Island.

And there's a Sicily Island, there's a Pecan Island,

there's about five other island place names.

And the mail kept getting mixed up.

And my grandfather at the time was the postmaster.

So they said, "Well, we'll just name

the postal designation Carville."

Because it was named after my family,

people assumed that we were land barons.

Understand, we were small time bureaucrats.

We got a good name, we could get into any club.

We just couldn't pay the dues.

(James chuckling)

This is the house that my father was born in.

If you were in Carville in 1920,

this would definitely be top three

pieces of residential real estate.

(soft music)

This is pretty typical South Louisiana architecture.

Probably, if you lived here, you were Black.

I grew up thinking, my daddy said,

we had the best climate in the world.

We had the finest peaches in the world.

We had the finest strawberries in the world.

We had the most fertile soil in the world.

We were the luckiest people in the world!

He didn't say, "You're growing up in some shit hole

on the Mississippi River."

(soft music)

See that window air conditioner? That was a big thing.

I discovered air conditioning

and masturbation about the same time in my life.

And boy, what a wow combo. Whew.

(James chuckling)

This is downtown Carville, Louisiana.

This is the intersection of Whatever and Whatever.

(James chuckling)

We don't have two stop signs, we have one.

It's is the only stop sign in Carville, is right there.

(soft music)

- [Mary Anne] How are you?

- [James] Pretty good.

- Gotta tell 'em about the metropolitan area.

- Yeah.

(Mary Anne chuckling)

This was the family store.

And, the facade has changed a little bit.

They've shut the post office down,

but, that's the original building.

(whimsical music)

- [Mary Anne] The store was the center of everything.

- [James] We had the only telephone in Carville.

- [Charles] Mr. Carville.

- Charles, get outta here.

- How you doing?

- I'm doing good, man.

He grew up right next to me.

- Yeah.

- I mean, literally, he's my next door neighbor.

(Charles chuckling)

The checkout used to be right here.

It first was a typical general store.

So, if you wanted something, they would get it for you.

I'm gonna get a cold beer, shit, this is hot.

That's probably me, yes.

- [Mary Anne] I don't know, but look at that.

Is that Carville or is that Carville?

- I didn't like wearing suits and wool stuff.

God, I hated that.

- Our mother was very Catholic.

She wanted 12 children, ended up with eight.

We've always thought of James as "St. James,"

he could do no wrong.

Right here. This angelic human being.

Yeah, okay. - You think I didn't try

to please my mother?

(James chuckling)

(soft music)

- [Katie] You're a self-proclaimed mama's boy, aren't you?

- Yeah, I am a momma's boy, yeah.

- [Katie] You call your mom how many times a day?

- Well, I call home, I call my mom,

I call one of my sisters,

I say, almost every, about, probably.

- And some days, five times. - Some days, five times.

It depends on. - Depending on

how nervous he is.

- You can't know James if you didn't know Miss Nippy.

She would say, "I love all my children,

but James is just special."

"God only made two perfect people

Jesus Christ and my baby, James."

They'd be like, "Really?"

She worshiped and adored him,

and was every bit as brilliant and eccentric.

- To supplement the income for the family

she ended up selling encyclopedias,

which, she was fantastic at it.

- This is how good of a huckster she was.

She would go around South Louisiana in her car.

She said, "Son, we're looking for two things,

we're looking for a bass boat and bicycles,

'cause that's gonna say

that there's disposal income in that house

and they have children."

- That's what she was looking for.

Some indication of a kid who would want the encyclopedia.

- She'd see the bass boat.

Inevitably, the father would walk in and he said,

"Well, Ms. Carville, I'm sorry,

we just can't afford that right now."

And she would say, "Well, you know, I see you can afford

a bass boat for yourself,

I just find it amazing that you can't afford

an encyclopedia for your kid?"

And it's like, - Boom.

- cha-ching!

(audience laughing)

I mean, it was 100%.

I am the son of a great salesperson.

We have come to devalue salesmanship.

If you're not willing to sell, you're not willing to win.

All right, so this is

patient housing there.

The chief driver of the economy in Carville

was the treatment center for Hansen's Disease.

It's what made the place I grew up

different than any other place,

in probably an entire South.

- [Reporter] The National Leprosarium,

which is the Marine Hospital at Carville, Louisiana,

has under treatment, more than 300 patients

who are lepers.

- If you were in Carville in 1959,

let's just say population was 1,000 then,

400 of the people had leprosy.

And 550 were Black.

Okay, I mean, if you didn't get along with people,

you'll have a pretty, you know, a pretty lonely life.

- You had people who were shunned by society

that gave him a sense of the other,

and a great compassion for them.

- James was one of the few strategists that understood

that there were millions of Americans

who lived on the outskirts of hope.

He's always been able to see beyond the levies.

And that's something natural that comes to a man

who understands what it is to come from nowhere

to become something in this world.

- He grew up at Jim Crow, segregated, agrarian South,

and saw the injustice, and it pains him to this day.

- I grew up in a place that was overwhelmingly Black,

could see that I led one life,

and for the most part, they led another life.

- When it was not only not popular, it was dangerous

to take a pro civil rights stand, took a lotta courage,

and James Carville did it and he didn't do it quietly.

- Some people that grow up go put money in their pocket,

forget where they came from, and then go support policies

that actually hurt the people that you grew up with.

James was never that way.

- During the Clinton campaign,

we were working towards putting people first.

That came so naturally to James,

and it also, I think, was fuel for him.

Knowing that in some way he'd be giving back

to the people who helped raise him.

- Our mission is to empower people to get these incomes up.

Our mission is to do something about these healthcare costs,

and to invest in people.

And recognize that this nation can never be any richer

than the people in it.

We keep our focus on that,

we will become a nation of fishermen and fisherwomen,

and not a nation of fish givers and fish takers.

(chimes clanking)

So, Wednesday,

what are we doing? "Ari" and "AC?"

- Yeah, you have "Ari Melber" in the afternoon

and then you have "AC 360" that evening, and the podcast.

And then, Friday

you head to Cleveland for your WSB

through Atlanta.

And then that speech in California came through.

- Where in California?

- [Allie] Newport Beach.

- And it's on what day, what's the date?

- It's Monday the 24th.

So you'll go straight from there to Aspen.

- It's hard to believe somebody

actually wants to see my face.

- [Allie] They're gonna see a lot of it too.

(upbeat music)

- The ABCs of my packing routine is,

running shoes, running shorts, and good bourbon.

I put it in those little bottles you buy at Walgreens.

Salvation.

Three ounce bottles.

Shit.

All right.

Keep my sleep meds

and my little indica gummies here.

(James chuckling)

(plane engine roaring)

- [Reporter] Political strategist James Carville

is back in the news again.

Democrats are telling him to keep his damn mouth shut.

"Don't talk about Biden's sinking poll numbers!"

- You said quote, "Nobody's saying, "James, you're wrong."

"They're saying, "James, you can't say that."

- James has been very honest

and upfront about what he sees as Joe Biden's weaknesses.

But like any other political strategist,

sometime we get it right, sometime we get it wrong.

I'm not bed wetting.

Not yet.

- Democratic Senator John Fetterman

went after famed political strategist James Carville,

quote, "I'll use this as another opportunity

to tell James Carville to shut the, quote, "(beep) up."

- They'd rather bury their head in the sand

than listen to what Carville's trying to tell 'em,

and that, "Biden is going to lose."

On issue after issue, they're trailing Trump

where they really shouldn't be,

including on the issue of democracy, by the way,

where Biden's only leading him by three points.

And if you wanna make that the centerpiece of this election,

which I believe it should be, you know, objective facts,

which suggest he should be blowing him

out of the water on that one.

- [Reporter] Always back to the politics.

- Do doubts remain about the President's age?

Yeah, but, to say this does not make me into a "Bed wetter,"

or, "Whatever, looser."

- Has someone called you that?

- I think that, yeah, I think they've called me

a "Bed wetter" on any number of occasions.

I'm not offended by it at all.

I guess I'm 5% offended that if you really think calling me

a "Bed wetter" is gonna make me change my mind,

I don't think you know who I am.

- Elections always boil down to decisions.

- A bed wetter is a person who overly frets.

I have become the kinda person that I used to hate.

One of these carping Democrats.

"Hey, no, they're never goddam satisfied."

It was a CBS poll where 72% of the people said that,

"President Biden physically or cognitively,

can't do the job."

And by the way, he is old.

Age is something that everybody deals with.

(whimsical music)

If you're like me, you're dealing with it as we speak.

If you're a younger person,

you deal with it through your parents, or your grandparents,

or somebody down the street. You can't pivot from that.

- [Cameraperson] Mr. President.

-[Cameraperson 2] Mr. President, on your right, sir.

Mr. President.

- I've heard James on the phone saying,

"What, if I stop saying he's old, he's gonna get younger?"

"I mean, it's not gonna."

(Mary muttering and grumbling)

And I'm very pro age.

I love that James is gonna be 80,

and still whipper snapping around, but,

he quits teaching at LSU

'cause it was too hard to drive to Baton Rouge.

Imagine being president at that age?

- I am very comfortable that I am saying publicly

what people are saying to themselves.

I have enough money, I have enough whatever,

I could just shut the fuck up.

- James is nothing, if not consistent.

He's consistent in his boldness,

consistent in his willingness to say things

that his allies might not wanna hear.

James is saying,"The flames are coming outta the engine,

the plane is going down,

and we're all just watching it happen."

(upbeat mariachi music)

- I'm ready to sign, Debbie.

(upbeat mariachi music continues)

How you doing, sir? - Good morning

- Nice to see you. - and enjoy the day.

- Thank you.

(audience applauding)

The first campaign I ever worked on, this is dating me,

was in 1959.

This is my eighth decade in politics.

And my job was to tear,

I worked for a guy named Price LeBlanc

against Boyzie Jumonville.

And my job was to tear Boyzie Jumonville's

telephone pole signs down.

(audience laughing)

Well, we lost and Price went on to be

one of the great Toyota dealers in the United States.

- Happy to be alive at your Action Toyota dealer.

We're loaded with trucks!

Trucks, trucks, cars and trucks.

(audience laughing)

- He taught me the value of salesmanship and hucksterism.

And, Democrats, we're not huckster enough.

And what that does is.

- Louisiana has this incredible history

of having colorful politicians.

And James, of course, is the epitome of that color.

- They go further, and further,

and further into economic slavery!

- We followed politician's campaigns

and got attracted to it like it was a circus sideshow.

♪ You are my sunshine

♪ My only sunshine

- The defining political character of my youth

was a man named Earl Long.

He had this unbelievable way of scaring people.

And he really went after powerful people.

- There's only two classes of people

that can get first class hospital treatment,

that's the poor poor and the rich rich.

- These guys were bigger than life

because of their oratorical skills

and fanciful personalities.

- Why do you keep talking out of both sides of your mouth?

- So a person with nothing between his ears,

such as you, can understand what I'm saying.

("Hadacol Boogie")

- There was a State Senator, Dudley J. LeBlanc.

He was a huckster of the first order.

He comes up with a product called Hadacol.

♪ Do the Hadacol Boogie

♪ The Hadacol Boogie

♪ The Hadacol Boogie

- Anything that you had, Hadacol could cure.

It was a hugely successful product.

- LeBlanc did a road show called the Hadacol Tour,

kind of a traveling circus,

and the whole combination of politics and hucksterism,

it got people out,

and made politics relatable with a show business component.

- Of course, the FDA found out that it was nothing

but alcohol and bullshit.

- Hadacol, what's that good for?

- Well, it was good for $5 million for me last year.

(audience laughing)

♪ And that's good enough for me ♪

- You're into politics as a young person

and you envision a career, or life in politics?

- I never envisioned this.

(pensive music)

- [Peter] Carville was a poor student

and dropped out of college to join the Marine Corps.

- That experience imposed discipline on him.

And James does not take to discipline,

he doesn't take to structure.

And yet, you can't exist without some.

- [Peter] After the service

he finished college and then got his law degree from LSU.

- I practiced law for two years and was terrible at it.

And then somebody in the law firm

started putting me to work on campaigns for politicians.

So I started doing that.

I found what I liked to do relatively late in life.

I managed my first campaign in 1982,

which meant I was 38-years-old on election night.

- I gather the world did not beat a path to your motel room?

- No, they didn't beat a path anywhere.

- The term, "Political consultant" as a profession

was almost non-existent.

For him to say, "Hey, you know what?"

"This is what my life career is gonna be,"

was a pretty big lift.

- I spent a lotta time staring at the phone,

waiting on it to ring.

- 1984, my first campaign,

I was the lowest man on the totem pole,

it was my first job outta college.

Carville was coming to Texas to be interviewed for this job

as a campaign manager for Lloyd Doggett for US Senate.

I carried the candidate's bags.

Somebody had to go pick up the out-of-state guru

at the airport.

So I go and get him, you know, dropped his fifth F-bomb

by the time we'd loaded the bags in the car.

I learned more in 15 minutes driving in with him

than I'd learned in four years of college

getting a degree in political science.

- You could see after 30 seconds

that he was 10 times more talented

than the entire room put together.

I just remember saying to myself,

"Man, I'm not going anywhere without this fucking guy."

- [Crowd] Doggett, Doggett, Doggett, Doggett!

- Doggett had got crushed in the Reagan landslide.

It was up until that day, the biggest ass whipping

a Democrat had ever gotten in Texas history.

(audience cheering)

Phil Graham just beat the living shit out of us.

(pensive music)

- I went there a boy and I left a man.

- James was famous for losing races over and over again.

- He was pretty much nobody in our party,

and he just wasn't sure he was ever gonna really make it.

- He slept on my sofa at age 40, absolutely broke.

He had an Oldsmobile.

He had three or four changes of clothes, and that was it.

- So I go back to Baton Rouge, work in the mayor's office.

We'll also be proposing some new school lights

at the school crossings to ensure

the safety of our children.

The mayor feels very strongly about this.

Then I get a call

to go interview for a campaign in Philadelphia.

And I said, "Well, you gotta send me the ticket."

And he said, "Well, we're gonna reimburse you."

"I mean, we're not, you know, just get."

I said, "You don't understand,

I don't have the money to get a ticket."

"You got to send me the money to get the ticket

to go to Philadelphia."

Took a job in 1986 working for a man named Bob Casey,

who was then running for governor of Pennsylvania.

- This is Pennsylvania in '86

when the worst of the Rust Belt collapse is going on.

Casey would go around that state spurred on by Carville,

and Casey would go around and said,

"If you've ever been knocked on your butt,

I know what it feels like."

"I've been there, I'm gonna fight for you."

- [Cameraperson] Okay, here we go, this way.

- James understands the struggle that people have

to put two paychecks together, because he lived it.

(audience cheering)

(upbeat music)

- Casey wound up winning.

(audience applauding)

When the results came in and we won,

James got on the phone and called Miss Nippy

and just burst into tears.

And Mr. Casey, who was a very reserved Irish Catholic,

took the phone and told that lady how wonderful her son was.

They had a vigorous agreement about how wonderful James is.

(audience cheering and applauding)

- I was thinking, "I don't have to go back to Baton Rouge

and beg people for a way to make a living."

The Casey campaign, without that,

I'm not me.

And that didn't come until I was 42.

(audience cheering and applauding)

I woulda been a massive failure without this.

The Pod Streak was '86 to '92.

- [Announcer] Wallace Wilkinson, if he wins, you win.

- You've given a victory to the people of Kentucky tonight.

- I take it as a great compliment that the voters chose us.

- [Announcer] Zell Miller, fortune is his cause.

- [Reporter] Democrats in Philadelphia

and we're cheering a new hero.

Harris Wofford had shown them how to win.

- [Reporter] Since last week's elections,

political consultant James Carville's phones

have been ringing off the hook.

Democratic candidates running in 1992

are anxious for the advice of the man hailed

as the architect of Harris Wofford's stunning upset

in the Pennsylvania Senate race.

(pensive music)

(steamboat horn bellowing)

- Okay, James, let's go to our questions.

They're always so good.

Okay, Mike, it doesn't matter a lot,

but I've lost the picture, what do I do?

- [Mike] No, let's just carry on.

We're talking.

- [James] Just carry on with audio.

- Oh, you don't wanna see me? Okay.

- [James] We see ya.

- [Mike] To our chagrin, we can still see you, Al.

(all laughing)

- [Al] Okay, we'll start with Jeff in St. Pete, Florida,

who says, "When is the date when there is no turning back,

legally, as to being the nominee, at the convention?"

- As you know, I have been highly skeptical of the idea

of President Biden running for reelection.

So now I'm hearing,

"Well, you might have been right in June,

but there's nothing we can do about it."

Okay, I profoundly disagree.

(dramatic music)

Lyndon Johnson was running for president in March of 1968.

- [Reporter] The President had been aware

of a growing divisiveness within the country.

- Good evening, my fellow Americans.

- LBJ gives an Oval Office address about Vietnam

and at the end he has this sentence.

- I shall not seek, and I will not accept

the nomination of my party for another term

as your president.

- LBJ decided not to run,

I don't think he told hardly anybody, and throws it open.

(dramatic music continues)

- The unpopular incumbent dropped out of the race.

Six months later, Democrats go to Chicago.

(upbeat music)

I's declared an open convention.

(dramatic music)

You had a Democratic party that had a terrible issue

with the Vietnam War.

There were huge protests, police response was excessive.

(crowd clamoring)

- The party elders put the Vice President up.

He hadn't been in any primaries,

and they forced him onto the ballot.

And, what happened?

Well, riots, a loss,

and third party candidate won five states.

(dramatic music continues)

- Richard Milhous Nixon has been elected

the 37th President of the United States.

- Stop! Freeze frame.

There's another way to do this.

(dramatic music)

Let's imagine Biden says,

"I'm not running," two weeks before the convention.

- Good evening, my fellow Americans.

- All hell breaks loose, phone lines are buzzing.

(dramatic music)

You say, "We're gonna put five candidates forward,

all five will be invited to speak to the convention."

High drama coming in.

Who will on the sated list of five?

Wait, I just got an indication

that Newsom's campaign manager's coming out.

And oh, wait a minute, I'm back to you.

I see Gretchen Whitmer's press spokesman

is being invited back in.

You got a fucking game and everybody is watching it.

As compared to, we go to Chicago,

(audience cheering)

there's gonna be no suspense.

If you had a contested convention,

it would be the highest rated summer programming in history.

Could turn out bad, but it could really turn out well.

(camera clicking)

- This could only happen if President Biden decides

he can't or shouldn't run, and he's made it pretty clear.

So, with that, I think that James is getting

a fair amount of heat from Democrats who just say,

you know, "It's over now, I mean, he's made his decision."

- What people say, "It's time to fall in line."

But I can't say what George Carlin said, "Fuck hope."

(James laughing)

I just, I can't.

(dramatic music)

(Jeep engine roaring)

- [Reporter] All right, Josh.

Thank you, very, very much.

So, we got the news?

Okay, we're off and running.

- [Reporter 2] Nikki Haley has exited the race.

She was in it for about 13 months.

Mitch McConnell endorsed Trump during this hour as well.

So, a lot of news.

- [Reporter] Yeah, we don't expect

to see the President today,

might see Donald Trump today come out and make a statement.

- To the left is what they call Union Station.

May of 1962, when I was a senior in high school,

I actually touched John F. Kennedy.

He was down here and he was sitting on the back

of a convertible or something.

And, I'll never forget,

I got close enough, I actually like, touched his coat.

(soft music)

I kinda identified with civil rights.

And to a Catholic kid, that was like, huge.

- I am proud to become

an honorary citizen of New Orleans,

and I am proud as President of the United States

to come to this city and to ask you to join with all of us

in moving this country forward in this decade.

(audience cheering and applauding)

- An entire generation of people were just moved by Kennedy

to get in American politics.

(soft music continues)

- I end tonight where it all began for me,

I still believe in a place called Hope.

(audience cheering and applauding)

Okay.

- [Producer] We're ready, Mr. President.

- [Sound Person] Yeah, I think you're good.

- [Producer] We're good?

Okay, thank you. Appreciate it.

- No problem. - Okay.

- [Interviewer] My first question is,

I'd like to know what you saw in James Carville

that made you take a chance on him in 1992?

(audience cheering and applauding)

(dramatic music)

- The quarter century before '92,

Democrats had held the White House

for four years out of 25.

So, the whole question in '92 was kinda,

"Can anybody play this game?"

- People were hungry for a win.

But a lot of Democratic candidates thought

that George H.W. Bush was unbeatable

coming off the victory in the Gulf War.

(audience cheering and applauding)

- A number of people

were thinking about running for president.

- They wanna work.

- [Al] So, James and Paul got to pick and choose

which candidate they were gonna represent.

- Our buddy, George Stephanopoulos, called me

and said, "I've signed on with Bill Clinton,

he's our generation's Bobby Kennedy."

Which, was the highest praise he could give.

- I never felt comfortable with political consultants

because I thought it was unlikely

that they knew more about Arkansas than I did.

You just talked to everybody, including members of the press

and ran your campaign.

So, I had something to learn, I knew,

and I was very impressed with what he'd done.

When I met Carville, I thought I was home.

We were two guys with pretty flashy

and strong-willed mothers

who came from little Southern towns.

And, I thought he was so smart.

- Clinton and Carville are from roughly the same generation,

roughly the same kind of socioeconomic background.

And they both had a little bit of rogue in them.

When Clinton signed on Carville and Begala,

it was a sign that this is someone who is serious,

and this is someone who is coming to play and coming to win.

- James Carville, senior advisor

to the Clinton Gore campaign,

joining us from Little Rock, Arkansas.

Let me read you one of the quotes

from a Bush Quail news release, quote, "Pigs will fly,

lions will lay down with their lambs,

and patriot missiles will sail down chimneys

before a Commander in Chief wannabe

ever gets down to specifics,"

predicted Bush Quail Deputy Campaign Manager Mary Matalin.

- Well, as you know, I know Mary Matalin fairly well,

and I've always, one of the things I feel good about,

is this election's over.

She'll have a good career as a fiction writer,

'cause she written enough fiction in this campaign

to fill in for William Faulkner.

It's such a Washington story.

Mary and I had met in January of '91.

It was a article about this Democrat

who was winning elections.

Lee Atwater, who was Bush's political operative, saw it

and told Mary, go get a date with this guy

and find out what he's up to.

I think we were living together by March.

- [Interviewer] Conspiracists would be right to say

that she was sent to spy on you.

- Yeah.

(dramatic music)

We started dating in January of 1991.

August, President Bush appointed her

Deputy Campaign Manager.

And I was in the midst

of a special Senate election in Pennsylvania.

- He promised me that was it.

He wasn't gonna be in my lane anymore,

'cause I was doing national politics.

- We were at dinner where James

was introducing a couple of us to Mary for the first time

and he had cut the deal with Bill Clinton

to join the campaign.

- They congratulated him, and I said,

"I didn't wanna make a scene

because they were his friends and not mine."

- She was freaking out.

And the rest of us couldn't figure out exactly why.

And then little by little we realized, oh, my God,

he hasn't told her.

(Mandy laughing)

Poor Mary.

- If he woulda slapped me across the face,

I would've been less surprised.

The President's inner circle were all sophisticated men

of a certain age.

They could not articulate what needed to be articulated

when you're facing the kind of opposition

that James was presenting.

- President Bush has presented

an agenda for American renewal.

- I have a question for America,

"Do you feel renewed after four years of George Bush?"

"How renewed do you feel out there, Mr. and Mrs. America?"

- I had to pull it out on Clinton

because everybody else was whining about it.

Called him, "A philandering, pot smoking, draft dodger."

I got chastised not to be so negative.

But,

I always made the soundbites, didn't I?

He is an obsessive politician.

When he has been asked about his anti-war activities

in the past he has hedged, bobbed, and weaved.

- [Reporter] The Bush campaign refused to back down.

The Clinton campaign, of course.

- I'm supposed to be worried about this?

(all laughing)

- Can't think of another time

where you had a top person in a Republican campaign

and the top person in a Democratic campaign

started a romance.

And even though people talked about it,

was reasonably clandestine.

- They faced a lot of obstacles from both sides.

It was kinda dicey,

that you're kinda sleeping with the enemy in both cases.

- [Interviewer] There's been so many reports

of a romantic attachment between you and Mr. Carville?

- I think the media does not know how to cover

what is an unprecedented relationship.

- Nobody seemed to care on the Democratic side.

I wish I could tell you

that's because Democrats are better people.

It's a boy girl thing.

- I think that it is even a zone of privacy

that exists for political consultants.

- James got credit for dating me

and I got shit for dating him.

- If you were to lose, will there be lingering bitterness?

- No, we're not gonna lose, so I haven't thought about that.

I had been working for 12 years to get this job.

He just came outta nowhere.

He just fell from the sky doing state races.

And I said, "Oh, he'll just fall on his face."

Little did I know he was gonna recreate the genre

of political consulting.

- Thank you, I'm glad to be with you.

You know, I had a good time,

but I was a pretty straight kid.

I worked hard enough to make good grades,

but I basically liked my music and my friends.

And I had a heck of a good time when I was in high school.

I bet you I said something you could take outta context.

You weird guys gotta stick together.

(all laughing)

(phone ringing)

Shh.

- [Person] Said, "They're not interested in the fact that

you sent me in college. - Shh. Shh.

- The woman who was paid by a supermarket tabloid

to publicly talk about her story of a 12 year alleged affair

with Democratic presidential candidate, Bill Clinton,

held a news conference today.

- I have lied to the press about our relationship

to protect him.

(pensive music)

- The Gennifer Flowers weekend was unlike anything else

in the campaign.

You're coming off the Gary Hart implosion in 1988,

where just the whisper of infidelity,

bam, knocked him outta the race.

(plane engine roaring)

- On February 10, 1992, we're trying to get our sea legs

after these allegations of affairs.

We get off the plane, embed from ABC News

hands Georgie and I this letter.

The first line, "Thank you for saving me from the draft."

Our knees buckle.

(pensive music continues)

- I thought this was it.

No way he can survive the double whammy

of Gennifer Flowers and the draft letter.

- [Interviewer] Governor, did you write this letter

to Colonel Holmes? - Yes.

- [Interviewer] Okay.

- George was in the corner kinds curled up

in the fetal position, and Carville was stomping around

in the room.

And he said, "Georgie, read the thing!"

"If you read it out loud, it helps him,

it shows he got more character."

(Clinton chuckling)

- James almost immediately saw something else.

He said, "This letter can be your friend."

- He said, "I was in the Marine Corps at the time.

Lots of people in the Marine Corps

felt just like this letter."

(Clinton laughing)

It was so good.

And he was right.

- I can legitimately say that I served,

I did what I was told, I got an honorable discharge.

And Clinton had deferments, wrote this tortured letter

because he wanted to remain politically viable,

but he didn't want to get his ass shot off.

Oh, gee.

- James knew his generation's ambivalence.

He knew how people felt who had served

and who had decided not to serve.

He looked at the letter in a totally different way

than anyone else.

That's so James, to see opportunity at a moment

when everybody else sees death.

- Carville recommended that we turn into it,

that we deal with it.

- [Reporter] Why did the Pentagon, in your opinion,

release the letter?

- I think that it is, "Why do you think that?"

Well, let's try a case of rocket science.

Here's a article in "The Wall Street Journal" on Friday,

and here's a story that looks like it might be going away.

And somebody says, "A-ha, look, we have something

that can kick this story an extra day."

(dramatic music)

My job was to convey to the press and the public

that we are tough fucking people

that know what they're doing.

'Cause that was really part of what I was selling.

But you have to ask. - But shouldn't you be glad?

- Are you gonna let me answer the question,

or you gonna interrupt me?

Okay. All right.

- [George] That defiance ended up sending a bigger signal

that lasted throughout the whole campaign.

If you've got a big problem, confront it, don't hide it.

- Carville's approach is just as relevant,

perhaps more relevant today than it was in 1992.

You turn into the fire, you don't turn away from it.

- [Interviewer] Should Biden go on the attack?

- My dad was a boxer at LSU.

He said, "Get in, throw a combo and get the hell out."

That's what Biden needs to do.

Go in, throw a quick combo, back off.

Come back, quick combo, back off.

- [Al] Any sense of how and whether Biden's going to address

the age issue?

- I asked the campaign if he's gonna give

a full throated speech on the subject of age,

I want to interview him about that.

And they said, "Well, look, we don't,"

they made it clear they're not gonna be doing that.

- You seem to be pretty convinced

that Biden really believes that he's gonna win.

- He has a conviction that the American public

is as insulted by Trump on a spiritual, patriotic level

the same way that he is.

- I hope his view of America turns out to be correct.

But, I gotta say, the evidence I see right now is,

I just have a hard time being encouraged by it.

- It will go down in history

as a catastrophic miscalculation if he is wrong about that,

and I think that will be the story.

- Evan, thank you so much.

- [Evan] A great pleasure.

Always a treat to be with you guys, thank you.

(dramatic music)

- In June of 1992, we did a poll

for "The Wall Street Journal"

and NBC News that showed Clinton in third place,

behind Perot.

(phone ringing)

- [Person] And it was proposed on the 16th of April.

- Pick it up.

Hello, give it here. Hand it here.

You're a guy that can't pick up the phone.

We were so strategically dysfunctional.

Everybody realized that something had to be done.

I'd run a lotta campaigns, and I developed an idea

of the way that you should do things.

- [George] He wanted to have representatives

from every department all in the same room

so that we all could speak with one voice

and have one strategy.

- They came to me and said, "We're gonna do this coup

and you're gonna be the leader of the coup."

"And, by the way, you gotta go sell this

to the Clintons, thank you."

(James chuckling)

- So he came up with this idea of the Clinton Action Team

and took it to Hillary.

Who was the most important strategist.

Hillary loved it, blessed it,

but said, "You should call it the War Room."

- Seemed like a good idea.

If she'd o' told me to call it The Fart Room,

I'd o' called it The Fart Room.

- He was given the job during the convention,

James, as the general of that War Room, created a culture

that I don't think any Democratic campaign has ever had.

- This morning Perot was on "CBS Morning News."

- [Mandy] Every morning and every night, everyone came in.

Everyone heard the news.

Everyone was part of the conversation.

It was literally an open campaign.

- It gave people psychic income.

You moved to Little Rock, you didn't get paid shit.

You worked seven days a week, you worked 15 hours a day.

The benefit was, you were in on the secret.

- I have a picture from the War Room.

All these people, impossibly young, impossibly brilliant,

impossibly idealistic, and James was their guru.

He was their spiritual leader.

And he created a camaraderie

that has now lasted for decades.

- [James] Hey.

- [Person] Hey.

- It's a good spot, suggestion.

- [Person] Sure.

- At the end, have him say, "Read my lips."

"No, sir, This time we're reading the record."

- One of the great things about Carville is he could distill

a message into its essence.

We had that little sign that said,

""Change vs. More of the Same."

"The Economy, Stupid."

"Don't forget healthcare."

And everybody who worked for me looked at it every day

and just had it drilled into them.

(dramatic music)

- You have to know an awful lot to be able to boil down

an entire presidential campaign to 14 words.

You have to know history, you have to know psychology.

You have to know polling, you have to know voters.

You have to know what people's lives are like

in that moment.

But, in those words are the keys to victory.

- Stay focused, talk about the things

that have mattered to people.

You know?

It's the economy, stupid.

- It's the economy, stupid.

- The economy, stupid.

- I don't know how many times people have sent me like,

"It's the blank, stupid."

I guarantee you it's a million.

And it's just one of these things that,

what we call, "Sticky."

- I think there are a couple of big things.

One is James Carville's old line.

"It's the economy, stupid."

- It's the economy, stupid.

- Stupid.

- Stupid. - Stupid.

- It's the economy, stupid.

- Mm.

- We all go by, "It's the economy, stupid,"

and you wouldn't have that

if you didn't have James Carville.

- "It's the economy, stupid."

Did you ever hear that one?

"It's the economy." It is indeed.

- I feel a little odd sitting up here,

being known as the person that popularized the word,

"Stupid" in American politics.

I'd like to be remembered

for something a little more substantial than that.

But what the heck.

(audience laughing)

(dramatic music)

- Good evening,

we're back in the capital of Arkansas tonight.

We want to show you the scene as they await the arrival

of their governor, the new President of the United States.

That is Bill Clinton.

Can I just say, there's James Carville

right in the middle of it all.

He has this relationship with Mary Matalin,

who is the Political Director for President Bush,

he was supposed to be with.

- [Commentator] And he told me that the one thing

he's really sad about today is that Mary

is suffering this loss.

- On election night, I turned on the TV

completely shit faced and already on my first hangover.

And there he is in this teal jacket that I bought him,

waving.

♪ Don't stop thinking about tomorrow ♪

♪ Oh, ah, ah, ah

("Don't Stop")

- We were all in awe of everything that he had done.

You couldn't have held Nippy Carville down for anything.

SJ had reached the tantamount.

This was just the most unbelievable thing in the world.

(audience cheering and applauding)

- And finally, I want to thank the members of my brilliant,

aggressive, unconventional,

but always winning campaign staff, they were unbelievable.

(audience cheering and applauding)

They have earned this.

- When you think of Democrats and how long it had been

since they'd won a presidential election,

how fraught this campaign had been,

we were all caught up in the moment.

(dramatic music)

I understood that James had done something extraordinary.

You know, I was kidding James yesterday,

I said he's about to pass from

the role of regular human being into the role of a legend.

And I think he really deserves it.

I also believed, and still believe

that a lot of people's lives across the country

would be different because of this.

More people are gonna have better jobs.

People are gonna pay a little less for healthcare,

get better care,

and more kids are gonna go to better schools.

So, thanks.

(all applauding)

(dramatic music continues)

- I was 33-years-old

before I ever went to Washington or New York.

I was 42 before I won my first campaign.

And I'm happy for all of y'all.

(dramatic music continues)

- It taught Democrats how to win again.

That's what James did.

That's what Bill Clinton did, taught us how to win.

- And I'll never forget what y'all have done, thank you.

(all cheering and applauding)

(ducks quacking)

(upbeat music)

(sports announcer chatting on TV)

- [Announcer] And he's seven miles an hour

and seven strike outs, 2-2.

(soft music continues)

- [Mary] You guys hungry?

Equal amounts, and there's more.

- Hey honey, I'm gonna make lunch for everybody.

- [Mary] What are you making?

- French fries. Special tuna salad.

- You have all the stuff?

- I have all of the stuff, Mom.

- So I'm gonna go off to the farm.

- Fine, I got everything on this in place.

(soft music continues)

Oh, yeah.

(potato cutter thumping)

- Would you like me to cut a few like a normal person?

- [James] No, I got it.

- He says, he's got it, he's got it.

(soft music continues)

- As a couple, Mary and James were always public.

And then they turned it into an incredible business.

- Those of us inside the Beltway identify the power couples

of Washington by their first names, Bill and Hillary,

Al and Tipper.

But these days, the toast of the town are James and Mary.

(dramatic music)

- When James and Mary got together,

they were able to parlay it into books,

speaking gigs, appearances.

(audience applauding)

- "All's Fair, Love, War and Running for President."

- They were a subject of fascination.

No one could figure out their relationship,

but everybody loved the two of them.

- Here you are in the war camp

of the Clinton administration,

in the war camp of the Bush administration,

and this passion is happening.

(audience laughing)

- It worked because it was real.

They were both true to themselves, and true to the marriage,

and true to their profession at the same time.

That's pretty hard to pull off.

- How you doing?

This Serpent head's my husband, James Carville.

- Oh!

- Don't call me that.

- [Mary] We would fight over the funniest insults.

- 22nd most loathsome thing on Earth, me, 1994.

- What will you say to people, "Oh, Carville,

there he is exploiting his celebrity?"

- I'd say, "They're right."

(both laughing)

- There was that crazy television show they did,

"K Street," where they kind of became themselves on camera.

- Our first date was.

- January 8th, 1991.

- [James] That's right.

- The public James and Mary were a show.

(audience applauding)

They made money being a Democrat and a Republican.

That made people wonder, "Is it real?"

- One pundit actually had the temerity, not knowing them,

to write that it was all a stunt.

- Nobody knows a marriage except the one that they're in.

Everybody does it differently.

There is no model.

You know, now that we're having

this truth serum conversation, I really have never liked

having our marriage be the cause of our celebrity.

I don't like it.

Who gives a shit what I think?

- It was legal, I'm not breaking any law or anything.

- All right, here's the consolation,

our choice was to be a real whore and go be a lobbyist.

And I could not do that.

- Never did.

- In that context, I'm glad we did what we did.

- And with us now, America's political odd couple,

James Carville, Mary Matalin, welcome, happy anniversary.

- Thank you. - Thank you.

- Second year.

- That's exactly right. - That's right.

- Together. - Together.

- Now, let's begin. - There it is.

(dramatic music)

- "Meet the Press with Tim Russert,"

that was the forum where they were together,

they disagreed, but were sort of agreeable together.

- If you lower taxes on successful people,

you have to raise taxes on average people.

- Can I say something? - That is, don't,

- please, please, honey, I don't interrupt you.

That is what is behind this

whole thing. - Well, I don't talk

- as long as you do. - They want to lower taxes.

- Tim Russert was the dominant political reporter

in American politics.

He also had a great sense of what worked.

He knew putting James and Mary on,

yeah, it was entertainment,

she's a Republican, he's a Democrat.

But they were smart.

- He is the resident national expert on lying presidents.

- Tim saw, not the shtick, he saw the authenticity.

And James and Mary, love 'em or hate 'em,

they're completely authentic. - [Mary] Is he down the car?

- [Paul] They were from somewhere.

They weren't just these uber polished elites.

- [Reporter] How do you think he's gonna do

in Iowa and New Hampshire?

- Steal the baby.

Anybody want a baby. - Oh, no.

- I bought a baby.

We are joined by two of my favorites,

Emma and Maddie Carville.

- Carville and Matalin were really sort of cable 1.0,

when you really did try to find some common ground.

And then, MSNBC started to rise, Fox started to rise,

and things polarized.

People went to their echo chambers.

- It's always been a racket,

but there was an honor and there was civility.

I'm happy that both of us were able to work when we did

in the Golden Age.

- Won't you be perceived simply as a political hit man

who went after Ken Starr and tried to destroy him?

- What happened was, I was right on Ken Starr

and I'm right about this right wing money.

- Spend, spend, spend. - Because we care about...

- I let you ramble, let me be concise and accurate.

- This is your 10th wedding anniversary.

Will you make 10 more? - Here we go.

- You know, this is the only time we fight, Tim, so.

- Battle of the economists. - Very pro marriage.

- We'll be right back.

Mary Matalin, you are joining

the Bush Cheney administration.

- [Mary] Not a minute too soon.

- Why are you leaving your role as private citizen

and joining the federal government as an advisor

to the President and Vice President?

- Well, as the President said yesterday,

"We need to be citizens, not spectators."

- Your wife, is she joining the enemy

or serving her country?

- Well, I mean, I think clearly that she,

and I'm very proud of her, she thinks

she's serving her country.

She's serving people that she deeply cares and respects for,

President Bush and Vice President Chaney.

- When I went into the White House, quit our nice life

that we'd built with our kids, were two and five.

He stopped talking to me for many, many moons.

- No comment tonight on his wife's new job

from the Democratic strategist James Carville.

- He didn't want the pay cut

and he didn't want the emotional energy

that he felt he deserved, to be diverted.

(pensive music)

I had to force him to come to my swearing in ceremony.

Stood in the back of the room like this.

It was just such bullshit.

- She's doing something that she really believes in.

Maybe I'll do a a little bit to make her job more difficult,

but I'm sure she's up to it.

- No, I supported him when he

slapped me across the face

by doing Clinton in the first place.

And that if any multitasker on Earth

could take care of two kids, and him, and the house,

and at the time, four cats and four dogs,

and, I could do it, and I did do it.

So I resented his lack of confidence in me to get it done.

You can have it all, you just can't have it pleasantly.

You're always tired, you're always the last one in line.

Husbands are second to the last in line.

The repeat of that was the Iraq war,

which he was so opposed to.

I have my opinions about that, which are not worth sharing,

because it's irrelevant.

- Mary Matalin, the debate over the war,

how do you see it playing out across the country?

- Well, increasingly, the Americans understand

the threat that Saddam poses.

They understand the connection

between weapons of mass destruction and the terrorists.

- All through that Iraq war, nobody was more passionate

- All through that Iraq war, nobody was more passionate

about speaking out against it than James.

Nobody was more passionate than advocating for it than Mary.

- What do you think is gonna hurt President Bush more,

the fact that they hadn't found

any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,

or the fact that Iraq is getting more violent by the day

and we've been there forever

and the thing has gone to hell in a hand basket?

(audience applauding)

Mary worked for Cheney,

and I just detested the Iraq war.

That caused me

the most discomfort, I think.

I...

- He hated the war so much

and I kept trying to talk to him about it.

He said, "You know what?"

"You know what?"

"It takes two to tango, if I stop fighting

I'm not talking about this ever again."

And we didn't, and we haven't to this day.

I'm not advising this for relationships.

- Sometimes, if you gotta have a fight in a marriage,

at least it wasn't over the toothpaste cap,

it was over a war.

- We can fight over that too.

- At some point, everything, you move on.

Then, you know, we had to stop fighting,

it wasn't gonna change anything.

- [Interviewer] Catholics are supposed to stay married.

- I never thought about ending my marriage.

It never crossed my mind.

- Divorce happens, I get it.

We were not going to divorce each other.

We could torture each other in perpetuity in there.

We came perilously close, but we were not getting divorced.

And at some point it became like,

"I don't care how much you piss me off,

I am not leaving you, and you're not leaving me."

And it became like

a competition of who could outlive the other guy.

- [Julie] I'm Julie Mason.

Delighted to welcome back to the show

Congressman Brendan Boyle.

He's a Democrat of Pennsylvania,

representing the state's second congressional district.

- [Brendan] Great to be back with you.

- [Announcer] "The Julie Mason Show," 3:00 to 6:00 p.m.

- One of the things in my later life that has defined me,

is I've spoken up against extreme identity politics.

I saw this woke silliness was just a disaster.

I said, "Defund the police, three stupidest words

in the history of the English language."

(dramatic music)

This defund the police lunacy,

this, "Take Abraham Lincoln's name off of schools,"

I mean, people see that, some of these people need to go

to a woke detox center or something.

(dramatic music continues)

There's just this preachy aspect of progressive politics

that people find enormously off putting.

No one wants to call people Latinx or any of that nonsense.

My greatest is cultural appropriation.

So, if you come to New Orleans and you have a sweatshirt

that says, "I got bourbon faced on Shit Street,"

am I gonna say, "Oh my God, you appropriated my culture,

how dare you say that?"

(audience laughing)

- James is not a cultural warrior.

He wants to find the thread

that will impact the most people,

and therefore, move the most voters.

- He is the voice pushing the Democratic party

to remember the whole country.

- If we keep this kinda NPR identity left politics,

we're going to lose.

- He is singling out a very narrow lane

within Democratic politics,

and it's not their beliefs that he is so upset about,

it's the fact that if they don't get their way,

they'll just stay home.

- These are ideas from the left

that are prevalent now in the Democratic party,

and yet, you're speaking kind of negatively again

about the left.

- Because it has become symbolically to be interested more

in changing dictionaries than changing lives.

(dramatic music continues)

- [Bill] How are you?

- [James] I'm good. Yourself?

- You know, it's an interesting time to be alive.

- God, is it.

About 10 or 11% of Democrats describe themselves as,

"Progressive liberal," whatever that means.

- Is that right?

- Yes. This is survey after survey.

And these people are

annoying, silly, and most people

don't even know what they're talking about.

- I know.

- The original word, "Woke" was to know that Black people

need to be woke in their interactions with the police.

What happened was overeducated coastal white people

got a hold to the word.

And as they do everything else,

they completely fucked it up.

- I agree.

- And pissed everybody in the country off.

- Now you're speaking my language.

- And if we just could get

the humanities faculty at Amherst to shut the fuck up,

we'd be a lot better off.

(dramatic music)

These groups, they're nice people, don't get me wrong,

but they don't understand politics,

human motivation, organization, picking a fight,

winning the fight, moving to the next fight.

That's what's important.

- I'm gonna leave you with another superb quote

from the great James Carville,

"Screw the argument, win the election."

James Carville.

(audience cheering and applauding)

- About 1/3 of my life is spent packing.

I usually go to Costco and just buy underwear, and socks,

and T-shirts, and just throw 'em away.

It's significantly cheaper than hotel laundry.

I used to do 150 appearances a year.

I really can't do that anymore.

Here we go. Hope we got everything.

(James laughing)

I'm gonna be right in front, okay?

- [Reporter] Longtime Democratic strategist, James Carville

with some choice words about his fellow Democrats.

- Joe Biden is bleeding Black male voters.

"A suspicion of mine," quoting here,

"is that there are too many preachy females

dominating the culture of his party."

- I've always thought that good speech uses visuals.

If I say that message is getting out,

"There's too many preachy females."

Then everybody knows what I'm saying.

Democratic messaging is too feminine.

Don't eat hamburgers, don't watch football,

don't drink beer.

- What James Carville basically is saying is,

the Democrats got too out of touch,

lost connection with working class voters.

- It's a classic Carville.

- Classic Carville.

- Carville added,

"These women are like, "Global warming is real, James,

you gotta eat your peas."

"Don't preach to me woman, I'm a spoonin■ with my gator."

(audience cheering and applauding)

- I don't think we're gonna get any closer than this.

We'll just walk from here.

Jesus Christ.

(dramatic music)

I gotta get to 30 Rock to do a television hit.

- You trying to get to MS?

- Yes, ma'am.

- You want me to walk you over?

- I would love if you walked me over.

- Come on.

- Thank you, ma'am.

- [Producer] I'm a producer at WNBC, I'm from New Orleans.

- [James] Oh, okay.

(sirens blaring)

- [Crowd] Genocide Joe has got to go!

Genocide Joe has got to go!

Genocide Joe has got to go!

- [James] You saved my life.

- [Crowd] USA, hey, how many kids did you kill today?

- [Ari] James Carville is our special guest

on a big political night.

The Biden campaign just released this photo.

Biden is, of course, leaning on the Democratic predecessors.

- [James] Good to see ya. - [Ari] Good to see you.

- It's an exciting time to be in Manhattan.

- Yeah, it's bad out the street.

What does it mean to have these three together

for the Democratic Party?

- It's historic and I think the party is starting to gel,

to come together, but we're not gonna replicate

the 2020 Coalition.

Most people think we're going to lose Hispanic males.

- You've upset a lotta people,

at least with the way you put it.

I didn't tell you I was gonna ask this,

it's almost like you knew.

Here's the quote, recent to the New York Times,

"The suspicion of mine, James Carville," quote,

"is there's too many," quote, "preachy females."

- Sometimes I go out on a limb and say provocative things,

but what I was trying to do is bring attention to the fact

that we're losing males.

And you know what? I succeeded.

(pensive music)

Woo. It's a blue wall.

("Oh When The Saints Go Marching In")

♪ Oh, when the saints go marching in ♪

- Hi, thank you, all right.

- Good to see you.

- Good to see you.

♪ Oh, how I want to be in that number ♪

♪ Oh, when the saints go, go marching in ♪

("Oh When The Saints Go Marching In")

- Can I get you today?

- I want a half a cup of black, please.

- Your VIP mug.

- There you go.

The most attractive thing about living here,

most places kinda discard the elderly,

and here, the elderly are treated with respect.

And that is not common.

I just don't wanna grow old among strangers.

That's just, that's why I wanted to come here.

This is a sign of an advanced civilization.

A a donut is the sign of a fat cop.

This traffic is just gruesome.

I've never seen this kind of traffic over Tchoupitoulas.

- [Mary] Well, I spent the day

with your beautiful model daughter.

She's kicking it at the farm.

And Emerson has a date tonight with a Republican.

- Oh, wow. - Sadly,

- [Mary] I didn't want her to get involved in politics

at all. - What difference

does it make?

Just have fun.

- [Mary] Because Republican men are micro penises.

I can't deal with 'em.

- Don't, don't, okay, come on.

But, have fun honey.

- [Child] Love you, dad.

- I love y'all. Okay.

- [Mary] I meant that emotionally.

- I know that. I know that, honey.

I know that.

- [Mary] Did you get to get non-sequitur?

- I did. Okay.

- Love you. - Love you. Bye-bye.

- She's embarrassed. Bye.

(dramatic music)

There was a romantic sentiment about us, initially.

Then it turned into today we are some sort of prescription

for bipartisan civility.

Like, we do not have bipartisan civility.

We have marital civility, we have bipartisan cacophony.

- We've been married 32 years.

People can infer what they want or don't want from it.

It's all how central are your politics to you?

There are tens of millions of people in the United States

that don't even know anybody from another party.

- It never occurred to me that your love interest

and politics would be a determinant in a relationship.

But a majority of people don't wanna date somebody

from the other party.

So a majority of people just want to think like they think

and be validated 24/7.

Well, I think that's sorrowful.

I don't have to agree with him, but he makes me think.

There is not a day that goes by

that I don't hear something new from him.

Or laugh at some weird thing that he thinks is funny.

- Look, be curious.

- He's just lives in his own world, and I love that.

He's just a wonder.

He's like a wonder of nature.

But, so is a hurricane.

So sometimes you just have to batten up the hatches,

and get a stiff martini,

and let the hurricane pass by.

- [Jake] Let's turn now to the issue of immigration

and border security.

- What I've done since I've changed the law,

you're in a situation where there are 40% fewer people

coming across the border illegally.

It's better than when he left office.

And I'm gonna continue to move until we get the total ban on

the total initiative relative to what we're gonna do

with more border patrol and more asylum officers.

- [Jake] President Trump.

- I really don't know

what he said at the end of that sentence.

I don't think he knows what he said either.

(dramatic music)

- [Reporter] Before you even get into the mumbling,

and fumbling, and missteps, and stumbling,

the optics alone are so devastating.

- Dealing with everything we have to do with,

look,

if we finally beat Medicare.

- He is too weak.

He is too frail. He is a cognitive mess.

- [Rachel] What was your personal take

on what you saw tonight and what are you hearing

from the people you've been speaking with?

- It's kind of a DEFCON 1 moment.

- There is a deep, a wide,

and a very aggressive panic in the Democratic party.

- He had a test to meet tonight to restore confidence

of the country and of the base, and he failed to do that.

(dramatic music)

- Whatever you read, it was 50 times worse.

- Three minutes after it started, I said, "Fuck this."

I took two gummies and listened to country music.

- James, you were right four years ago

and you're right again this time.

- Who coulda seen this coming? Oh wait.

- Right.

I do know this, the worst thing that could happen

to you in politics, is you confirm an existing suspicion.

And what happened last night is,

people suspected that he was too old for the job,

and they walked away saying,

"Well yeah, he is too old for the job."

I think it's that simple.

- So, it's been obvious for months, years,

Biden's too old, what has worked?

Nothing.

Nothing.

- I tried, man, I tried.

(soft music)

- [Ezra] I don't think that most people

who watched Joe Biden will say to themselves,

"I want this guy as president in three years."

Voters have been telling Democrats at the polls

basically the whole time Joe Biden has been president,

Democrats, or at least Joe Biden, have not been listening.

And now they're gonna have to decide whether or not

they're going to listen.

- We're on track to lose an election to a major criminal

who is going to destroy the Western alliance,

the Constitution, and everything in between.

So we oughta act like it.

We're up against the wall.

The Democratic Party is,

the United States of America's up against the wall.

The country is clamoring for change.

- [Ari] James Carville, who has urged Biden not to run again

told "The Times,"

"You know how bad the upcoming DNC in Chicago's gonna be?"

"We are going to sit Shiva for four days."

A reference to a Jewish grief ritual.

- Yeah, I mean, I would defer to Rabbi Carville on that.

- When I was young I saw the Democrats as a party of hope.

"I have a dream."

"Keep hope alive."

"The Man From Hope," the Hope poster.

We hope and we want other people to have hope,

that's why we do what we do.

And, we're now the party, frankly, we're at a crossroads.

What did Michael Corleone say,

"How do you get outta this business?"

For 30 years I've been out pontificating

and strategizing in public.

Maybe people will say,

"We've had enough of James Carville, thank you."

"We need some new blood out there."

(audience cheering and applauding)

And I'd say, "Understand that."

"I probably had enough of myself."

- It's just so nonsensical, politics today.

I feel bad that my heart no longer belongs to politics.

His vehicle for policy is still open to him.

But, as he well knows, the problems and the solutions

are bigger than a guy.

- The responsibility of governing requires you

actually to have the power to govern.

And you can't have the power to govern if you do not win.

So in that sense, winning is everything.

And James is in the business of winning elections

without losing your soul.

- To bring about change, or, to have a more just society,

far and away, the best way to accomplish that

is through political power.

But without political power,

you're not gonna get your shit done.

- Are you ready to get to work?

(audience cheering)

And when we fight.

- [All] We win!

- God bless you, God bless the United States of America.

(audience cheering and applauding)

I'ma head out.

- Okay.

- [James] You ready? Go culture!

- [Allie] Bye James.

- Bye-bye. Thank you.

Dammit, this country is worth fighting for.

The principle of the generational promise

is worth fulfilling.

And I am not gonna let anybody say

at a time that our basic institutions, our basic philosophy,

our sense of decency and our sense of national purpose

is under attack

that I sat by and did nothing more than pull a lever.

That's your choice.

(dramatic music)

I think I know what you're gonna do.

I know that you people and people like you

around this country want to not just fight back,

but you want to fight for something.

You want to fight for this nation.

You want to fight for its people.

You want to fight for its children.

And most importantly, you want to fight for its future.

We have big battles coming up.

I'm gonna count on you. Thank you.

(audience applauding)

(dramatic music continues)

If there was ever a time when winning was everything...

It was this time.

You're right.

The only thing that we can do

is we have to be all part of the opposition.

And we have to oppose, oppose, oppose.

Well, I didn't want to be in the opposition with you,

but I'm happy to be in the opposition with you.

We have no choice.

We have no choice.

We'll see you all soon. Peace.

You got to let it up, You gotta let up a...