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Downloaded from
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[suspenseful music]
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[muffled chat]
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[man]
Ladies and gentlemen,
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we have a press report
over the wires
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that the president
of the United States
has been the victim
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-of an assassination.
-[crowd gasps]
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We will play the funeral march
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from Beethoven's Third Symphony.
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[crowd loudly speaking]
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["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March"
by Beethoven]
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For my generation,
everyone remembers where
he was on the day
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that President Kennedy
was assassinated.
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President Kennedy was a hero
for our generation.
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The Kennedy assassination
is the most important
murder case in world history.
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It's quite understandable,
I think, that, uh,
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there should be, uh,
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it should be so hard to accept
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the assassination as the work
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of one mixed-up, limited-power,
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strange young man.
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It's not Shakespearean.
It doesn't fit.
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-[man 1] Did you fire
that rifle?
-[Lee] Just the facts
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as you people have been given,
but I emphatically deny
these charges.
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[Vincent]
There are two realities
in this case.
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One reality is that,
at its core,
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this is a simple case.
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But there's
another reality here.
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Because of the unceasing
and fanatical obsession
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of thousands
of Warren Commission critics,
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the conspiracy theorists,
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it's now the most complex
murder case
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by far in world history.
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Nothing even remotely
comes close.
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-[muffled chat]
-[man 1] Do you have anything
to say in your defense?
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[gunshot fires]
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[man 2]
There was a shot.
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Oswald has been shot.
Holy mackerel.
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[Lloyd]
The man whom the commission
concluded killed the President
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was himself killed
in the Dallas Police Station.
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Now, that must strike people
as impossible.
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[somber instrumental music]
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Hi, my name is Brendan Sheehan.
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I'm a judge in Cuyahoga County
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Common Pleas Court,
in Cleveland Ohio.
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I've always been interested
in the Kennedy assassination,
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even though I wasn't born
when it happened.
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My parents emigrated
from Ireland around the time
he was elected,
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and as the first
Irish Catholic President,
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Kennedy was, of course, revered.
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On my 15th birthday, in 1982,
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my father was brutally murdered
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by a Nazi serial killer,
Frank Spisak.
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Spisak had been targeting
African Americans
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on the campus
of Cleveland State University,
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and for some unknown reason,
he killed my father,
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who supervised the Physical
Plant Department at that school.
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It seemed like a random crime.
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That experience inspired me
to go to law school.
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As a young lawyer, I tried cases
in front of Judge Burt Griffin.
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He had been a staff lawyer
on the commission
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that investigated
President Kennedy's murder,
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known as the Warren Commission.
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I often asked Judge Griffin
about his experiences,
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which we then turned
into a seminar
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that we present in schools.
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When your teachers asked us
to come out here,
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I thought,
"What a great opportunity it is
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for you to actually be
with someone
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who investigated
the assassination
of President Kennedy."
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It's something that you studied.
So, I wanted to start off
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by asking you guys
a couple questions.
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How many of you think
that Lee Harvey Oswald
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was the only person involved
in the assassination?
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Raise your hands, come on.
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None, a couple. How many
of you think there's a--
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more people involved
than just Lee Harvey Oswald?
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Wow! Alright.
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[Brendan]
In the face of decades
of conspiracy theories
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swirling around this murder,
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Judge Griffin had
always been adamant
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that the Warren Commission
got it right.
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Yet, today,
many people don't believe it.
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What are the real facts
of this case?
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How can we determine
the difference
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between fact and fiction?
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Along with Judge Griffin,
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I sought out other investigators and figures
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involved in the events
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to get the real story.
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[Howard]
I think you have
to try to recapture, uh,
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the enormous enthusiasm
that there was in Washington,
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uh, with the Kennedy
Administration,
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the young, liberal,
charismatic candidate
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winning a close election
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a-- and coming into a,
an administration
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with a commitment to talent,
meritocracy,
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meeting the needs
of the country,
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whether they be
foreign or domestic.
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[crowd cheering]
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We shall pay any price,
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bear any burden,
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meet any hardship,
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support any friend,
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oppose any foe,
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to assure the survival
and the success of liberty.
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[crowd clapping and cheering]
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There was tremendous
optimism at the time
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of President Kennedy's
inauguration,
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but it was the height
of the Cold War,
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and the threat of nuclear war
was very high.
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In 1959,
off the coast of Miami, Florida,
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on the island of Cuba,
Fidel Castro overthrew
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Cuban President
Fulgencio Batista.
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When Castro formed
a relationship
with the Soviet Union,
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tensions reached a high point.
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Both President Eisenhower
and the newly elected
President Kennedy
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supported a CIA plan
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to aid a dissident militia
of anti-Castro Cubans
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to invade the island
and overthrow Castro.
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Known
as the Bay of Pigs Invasion,
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it was a disaster
for the dissidents
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and an embarrassment
for the United States.
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And only a year and half later,
when Soviet missiles
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were discovered
being assembled on the island,
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the Cuban Missile Crisis
brought us to the brink
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of nuclear war
with the Soviet Union.
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It shall be the policy
of this nation
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to regard any nuclear missile
launched from Cuba
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against any nation
in the Western Hemisphere
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as an attack by the Soviet Union
on the United States,
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requiring
a full retaliatory response
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upon the Soviet Union.
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[C. Ellen]
At the same time,
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tensions around demands
for civil rights
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for African Americans were
at a point of boiling over.
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This was the environment
surrounding
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President Kennedy's murder.
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[Burt]
The country was aware
that this--
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this,
this was a national disaster
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that we were facing here.
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If there was a conspiracy,
ev-- we had--
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everybody had to find that out.
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When a major political
assassination occurs,
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it's almost automatic
that people think
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about a political
motivation for it.
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[man on radio]
Here is a bulletin.
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President Kennedy has been shot
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and seriously wounded.
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[Burt]
Let me kind of give you
my first reaction when I heard
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that the President
had been shot,
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which was that this was
a southern segregationist,
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uh, that was the shooter.
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And then, of course,
it very quickly turned out
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that it wasn't
a southern segregationist.
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It wa-- in fact, it was somebody
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from the completely opposite end
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of the political spectrum,
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a Marxist.
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And then I thought this was
a cov-- this was a frame-up.
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This was the FBI framing
somebody that they,
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as a part of a group,
that they had been out
to get for decades.
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So, uh,
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when I got to Washington,
I certainly came
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with a lot of skepticism.
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There was a concern,
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after the assassination,
immediately after
the assassination,
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both in the federal government
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and in the Soviet Union
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as to whether Johnson
would think they did it,
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that all of a sudden we would
exchange nuclear weapons
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and the whole world would end
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in the World War III
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with bombings everywhere,
nuclear weapons.
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And so, to the degree
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that the question was,
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"Did the Soviet Union
have a hand
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in what Oswald did in Dallas?"
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That is scary,
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and Johnson was scared
after the assassination.
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He was afraid that
there were going to be
additional shootings,
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and he was going to be
one of them, with good reason.
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Uh, so,
what an effort was made to do
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is to settle that down.
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There were bombers in the air,
literally,
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SAC bombers in the air
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waiting to be told
whether to go to Russia or not,
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and that's not a good thing.
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So, "Let's settle it all down."
And they did settle it all down.
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We didn't have World War III.
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[suspenseful music]
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[Howard]
There is, uh, something about
the community interest in this
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that bespeaks
that affection and lost,
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uh, aspirations
of the early 1960s,
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and it comes from people,
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for the most part, who've been
disappointed time and time again
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by the Federal government's, uh,
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00:10:09,086 --> 00:10:11,698
addressing social or economic,
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00:10:12,089 --> 00:10:15,223
uh, ills in, in our society
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as they've emerged
time over time.
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[Brendan]
Suspicions
of a possible conspiracy
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00:10:21,229 --> 00:10:23,623
and speculation
about the culprits began
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even before the Commission
began its work.
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It became the lasting impression
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00:10:28,453 --> 00:10:30,368
of the assassination since then.
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00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:34,242
Former Charles Manson
prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi,
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00:10:34,285 --> 00:10:36,244
first studied this case
when preparing
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for an unscripted mock trial
of Oswald in 1986.
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In the brief time I have
to address you,
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00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:44,992
address you
in this historic trial,
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I want to point out what must
already be obvious to you.
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00:10:47,951 --> 00:10:51,215
That Lee Harvey Oswald
and Lee Harvey Oswald alone
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00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:54,479
was responsible
for the assassination
of John F. Kennedy.
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[Vincent]
Most Americans believe
that the Kennedy assassination
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00:10:58,745 --> 00:11:00,398
is still unsolved.
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00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:04,098
The reality is
that this case was solved
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by the Warren Commission
when they issued their report
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00:11:06,404 --> 00:11:09,494
on September 24th, 1964.
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And their findings were
that Oswald killed Kennedy
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00:11:12,889 --> 00:11:15,283
and acted alone.
And since that time,
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over 50 years ago,
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00:11:17,198 --> 00:11:19,983
no credible evidence
has surfaced
224
00:11:20,418 --> 00:11:24,031
which would alter
the fundamental findings
of the Warren Commission.
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00:11:24,074 --> 00:11:27,643
We thought there would be
a great deal of appraisals
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00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:29,732
of the Warren Commission's work,
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00:11:29,776 --> 00:11:34,084
but nobody foresaw
the extent to which,
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um, the criticisms
and conspiracy theories,
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uh, would, uh, would arise.
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People seem to glom onto
any inconsistent facts
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without taking, uh, account
of the, the whole picture.
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00:11:52,363 --> 00:11:55,845
Over the past 50 years,
at one time or another,
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00:11:55,889 --> 00:12:01,155
one or more conspiracy theories
have accused 42 groups,
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00:12:01,198 --> 00:12:03,287
82 assassins,
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00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:06,856
and 214 people by name
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00:12:07,204 --> 00:12:09,772
of being involved
in the conspiracy.
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00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:13,254
I told the jury one time,
I said, "You know, folks,
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00:12:13,994 --> 00:12:17,388
I'll agree with you,
I'll stipulate that three people
can keep a secret,
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00:12:17,432 --> 00:12:19,216
but only if two are dead."
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00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:21,305
We all know, uh, piling con--
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00:12:21,784 --> 00:12:23,655
you know,
unsupportable conspiracies on,
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00:12:23,699 --> 00:12:27,616
on, on a volume of conspiracies
doesn't lend credibility
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00:12:27,659 --> 00:12:30,662
to any of them. In fact,
the more conspiracy theories
you have,
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00:12:30,706 --> 00:12:34,057
uh, the more you come
to believe that none of them
are likely to be true,
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00:12:34,101 --> 00:12:36,190
uh, because certainly
all of them cannot be right.
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00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:39,367
I personally am unaware
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00:12:40,063 --> 00:12:42,805
of any major event
in world history
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00:12:42,849 --> 00:12:44,111
that has been shrouded
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00:12:44,764 --> 00:12:48,637
in so much intentional
misrepresentation.
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Also,
there are about a thousand books
251
00:12:52,032 --> 00:12:56,776
on the assassination.
95% of them are pro-conspiracy.
252
00:12:57,124 --> 00:12:59,561
And I have to tell you,
when I got on this case
253
00:12:59,604 --> 00:13:03,434
and started learning about it,
I became very disturbed
254
00:13:03,478 --> 00:13:04,827
with the conspiracy community.
255
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,352
They accused
the Warren Commission of bias,
256
00:13:09,179 --> 00:13:12,356
distorting the evidence
and suppressing the truth
257
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:13,705
from the American people.
258
00:13:14,141 --> 00:13:17,361
And I found out that it was
they who were guilty
259
00:13:17,405 --> 00:13:19,102
of these precise things.
260
00:13:19,146 --> 00:13:21,191
[suspenseful music]
261
00:13:22,149 --> 00:13:25,282
[Eugene] If I can help in anyway, I will. I'm calling with a suggestion.
262
00:13:25,326 --> 00:13:27,458
-I've just talked
to Nick Katzenbach.
-[Bill] Yes.
263
00:13:29,983 --> 00:13:33,029
[Brendan] This phone call
between Yale Law School Dean, Eugene Rostow, and Bill Moyers,
264
00:13:33,073 --> 00:13:35,945
Special Assistant to now President Lyndon Johnson,
265
00:13:36,337 --> 00:13:39,253
appears to be the first mention
of a Presidential Commission.
266
00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:42,909
It occurred on Sunday afternoon after Ruby killed Oswald.
267
00:13:43,605 --> 00:13:46,956
The call refers
to Deputy Attorney General
Nicholas Katzenbach.
268
00:13:47,652 --> 00:13:50,612
Katzenbach had been
recently involved in an effort
269
00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,223
to desegregate
the University of Alabama.
270
00:14:48,235 --> 00:14:50,585
[Brendan]
On Monday, November 25th,
271
00:14:50,628 --> 00:14:52,239
the day of Kennedy's funeral,
272
00:14:52,630 --> 00:14:54,458
Nicholas Katzenbach sent a memo
273
00:14:54,502 --> 00:14:56,983
along those lines
to Bill Moyers.
274
00:14:58,071 --> 00:15:02,640
Two paragraphs have
been fathered for conspiracy
theorists since that time.
275
00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:05,295
The second paragraph says,
276
00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:10,126
"The public must be satisfied
that Oswald was the assassin.
277
00:15:10,953 --> 00:15:13,956
That he did not have
confederates who are
still at large.
278
00:15:14,652 --> 00:15:16,524
And that the evidence was such
279
00:15:16,567 --> 00:15:18,613
that he would have been
convicted at trial."
280
00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:23,183
Katzenbach goes on to state
in a succeeding paragraph,
281
00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:26,273
"Speculation
about Oswald's motivation
282
00:15:26,316 --> 00:15:27,622
ought to be cut off,
283
00:15:29,450 --> 00:15:31,060
and we should have some basis
for rebutting the thought
284
00:15:31,104 --> 00:15:33,497
that this was
a Communist conspiracy
285
00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:36,370
or, as the Iron Curtain press
is saying,
286
00:15:36,761 --> 00:15:40,852
a right-wing conspiracy to blame it on the Communists."
287
00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:44,595
Often ignored is
the introductory paragraph.
288
00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:48,121
"It is important
that all of the facts
289
00:15:48,164 --> 00:15:50,732
surrounding President Kennedy's assassination
290
00:15:50,775 --> 00:15:54,040
be made public in a way
which will satisfy people
291
00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:56,085
in the United States and abroad
292
00:15:56,433 --> 00:15:58,522
that all the facts
have been told
293
00:15:58,566 --> 00:16:01,612
and that a statement
to this effect be made now."
294
00:16:03,049 --> 00:16:05,442
Well, what is the role
of the Justice Department
going to be?
295
00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:09,359
Uh, because if we didn't know,
then we learned shortly
296
00:16:09,403 --> 00:16:11,318
that there was, in fact,
no federal law
297
00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:13,798
that made shooting the President
298
00:16:13,842 --> 00:16:16,192
or killing him on the streets
of Dallas a federal crime.
299
00:16:16,932 --> 00:16:19,587
But Robert Kennedy made it,
uh, immediately known
300
00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:22,329
that he did not want to play
any role whatsoever
301
00:16:22,894 --> 00:16:26,202
in the investigation
of his brother's assassination.
302
00:16:26,594 --> 00:16:28,944
And, of course,
after Ruby killed Oswald,
303
00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:30,859
it was clear there was
not going to be a trial,
304
00:16:30,902 --> 00:16:33,775
uh, of Oswald,
but the State of Texas
305
00:16:33,818 --> 00:16:37,431
and the District Attorney
within the Dallas County
306
00:16:37,474 --> 00:16:40,173
were eager to conduct
further investigations.
307
00:16:40,738 --> 00:16:44,133
Two congressional committees
were anxious to unleash
their talent.
308
00:16:44,177 --> 00:16:47,832
So it was a, a very complicated
political, legal,
309
00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:52,272
uh, situation with great
national and international
repercussions.
310
00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:54,709
[Brendan]
The establishment of this Presidential Commission
311
00:16:54,752 --> 00:16:56,885
was intended to resolve
potential conflicts
312
00:16:56,928 --> 00:16:59,061
between many different
investigations.
313
00:16:59,975 --> 00:17:02,934
As a result,
President Johnson appointed
four members of Congress,
314
00:17:03,457 --> 00:17:07,287
Representative Hale Boggs,
Representative Gerald Ford,
315
00:17:07,635 --> 00:17:11,595
Senator John Sherman Cooper,
and Senator Richard Russell,
316
00:17:12,074 --> 00:17:13,902
two members
of the establishment,
317
00:17:13,945 --> 00:17:17,036
former CIA Director
Allen Dulles, and John McCloy,
318
00:17:17,427 --> 00:17:19,429
who had been head
of the World Bank
319
00:17:19,473 --> 00:17:22,041
and the governor
of Post-War West Germany.
320
00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:25,348
And he named the Chief Justice
of the Supreme Court,
321
00:17:25,392 --> 00:17:27,481
Earl Warren, as Chairman.
322
00:17:28,003 --> 00:17:30,005
[Stephen]
It was particularly important
323
00:17:30,484 --> 00:17:34,053
to have someone
who would be above the fray,
324
00:17:34,444 --> 00:17:36,185
whom the country would trust.
325
00:17:36,229 --> 00:17:38,013
And I suppose
that President Johnson
326
00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:40,015
was concerned
they wouldn't trust him enough.
327
00:17:40,885 --> 00:17:44,106
There is no one, I think,
in the country who could bring
328
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:48,067
the prestige, both personal
and of the institution,
329
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:51,983
uh, to the task of finding out
what actually happened.
330
00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:55,770
[Howard]
The Commission's task
was broadly defined
331
00:17:55,813 --> 00:17:56,858
in the Executive Order,
332
00:17:57,206 --> 00:17:59,078
to develop
all the relevant facts
333
00:17:59,121 --> 00:18:01,428
and to report them,
uh, to the President
334
00:18:01,471 --> 00:18:03,952
and to the,
the people of the United States.
335
00:18:03,995 --> 00:18:06,041
They were subsequently
given the, uh,
336
00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:09,784
the subpoena power
and the ability to grant
immunity by Congress,
337
00:18:09,827 --> 00:18:12,700
uh, shortly after
they became operational,
338
00:18:12,743 --> 00:18:17,226
uh, and, uh, their, uh,
first duties, of course,
339
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:19,228
were to appoint
a General Counsel.
340
00:18:19,272 --> 00:18:21,535
They decided on J. Lee Rankin,
341
00:18:21,578 --> 00:18:24,625
uh, who was a,
a, Republican from Nebraska
342
00:18:24,668 --> 00:18:28,759
who had been, uh,
brought into the Eisenhower
administration in 1953.
343
00:18:28,803 --> 00:18:31,458
He was well known
to Chief Justice Warren
344
00:18:31,762 --> 00:18:33,547
and largely respected.
345
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:35,331
[Murray]
I had a great deal
of respect for Mr. Rankin.
346
00:18:35,375 --> 00:18:37,986
He had argued--
uh, as Solicitor General,
347
00:18:38,029 --> 00:18:41,207
he had argued the case of Brown
against Board of Education.
348
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:44,427
You know, possibly
the most important case
of the last century.
349
00:18:44,819 --> 00:18:47,082
Uh, and he had done it
with integrity and with honor.
350
00:18:47,648 --> 00:18:51,217
[Howard]
The Chief Justice was very,
uh, clear that his goal was
351
00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:54,568
to investigate and determine
the truth, whatever it might be,
352
00:18:54,611 --> 00:18:57,397
and lastly that he did not want
to have anyone on the staff
353
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,138
who was
with a government agency.
354
00:19:00,051 --> 00:19:02,750
He didn't want-- not want
anyone to come in to the, uh...
355
00:19:02,793 --> 00:19:04,882
[stutters] into the effort
356
00:19:05,231 --> 00:19:09,148
with any preconceived
commitment to a particular
agency or outcome.
357
00:19:09,713 --> 00:19:12,238
The jobs that Rankin wanted
me to direct attention
to immediately
358
00:19:12,281 --> 00:19:13,456
were one, recruiting.
359
00:19:13,891 --> 00:19:15,502
And two, organizing, uh,
360
00:19:15,545 --> 00:19:17,765
helping organize the scope
of the investigation.
361
00:19:19,114 --> 00:19:21,682
[Brendan] Since it was the staff attorneys who would have the task
362
00:19:21,725 --> 00:19:24,163
of performing
the actual investigation,
363
00:19:24,641 --> 00:19:26,948
it was imperative to have
skilled lawyers
364
00:19:26,991 --> 00:19:28,732
of unimpeachable character.
365
00:19:29,211 --> 00:19:30,647
Organized like a law firm,
366
00:19:30,691 --> 00:19:32,606
the staff was to be
made up of teams
367
00:19:32,649 --> 00:19:35,478
of senior and junior attorneys
from around the country
368
00:19:35,522 --> 00:19:37,437
and across
the political spectrum.
369
00:19:37,872 --> 00:19:41,702
I was interesting
in getting some diversity. Uh,
370
00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:43,965
all males, of course.
371
00:19:44,008 --> 00:19:47,751
Uh, you could never get away
with such a commission today,
372
00:19:47,795 --> 00:19:49,884
uh, as my wife reminds me.
373
00:19:50,537 --> 00:19:54,758
Uh, and, uh,
but I wanted to have
374
00:19:54,802 --> 00:19:56,412
re-- representatives
of both parties,
375
00:19:56,456 --> 00:19:58,153
I wanted to have
some geographical mix,
376
00:19:58,197 --> 00:20:01,765
and, uh, so I then looked
for recommendations from others.
377
00:20:02,679 --> 00:20:05,465
[Brendan]
The senior members
recruited were Frank Adams,
378
00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:07,989
former New York City
Police Commissioner,
379
00:20:08,294 --> 00:20:11,906
Joe Ball, a distinguished lawyer from Los Angeles,
380
00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:15,823
Bill Coleman, who had been the first African American clerk
381
00:20:15,866 --> 00:20:17,172
on the Supreme Court,
382
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,827
Leon Hubert, from New Orleans,
383
00:20:20,262 --> 00:20:25,049
and Bert Jenner, a name partner in a major Chicago firm.
384
00:20:25,833 --> 00:20:27,835
The junior members
were David Belin,
385
00:20:27,878 --> 00:20:31,099
a Republican
in civil practice in Iowa,
386
00:20:31,142 --> 00:20:33,362
Burt Griffin,
a Cleveland lawyer,
387
00:20:33,754 --> 00:20:37,714
Jim Liebeler, who was leaving his job with a Wall Street firm,
388
00:20:38,106 --> 00:20:39,716
David Slawson,
389
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,328
who was then
practicing law in Colorado,
390
00:20:42,719 --> 00:20:45,244
Arlen Specter, who was serving
391
00:20:45,287 --> 00:20:48,116
in the District Attorney's
office in Philadelphia,
392
00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:50,901
and Sam Stern,
a former Warren clerk.
393
00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,427
While all the named members
of the Warren Commission
394
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:57,081
and many of its staff attorneys have passed away,
395
00:20:57,473 --> 00:21:01,260
I had the rare opportunity
to interview Howard Willens,
396
00:21:01,695 --> 00:21:05,829
David Slawson,
Burt Griffin, and Sam Stern.
397
00:21:06,352 --> 00:21:09,398
I also had the opportunity
to interview Alfred Goldberg,
398
00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:12,488
a historian
with the Department of Defense
399
00:21:12,532 --> 00:21:14,447
who was brought in
by Earl Warren
400
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:17,145
with the goal of having
the final report read
401
00:21:17,188 --> 00:21:19,321
more like
a historical chronology
402
00:21:19,713 --> 00:21:21,758
and less like a legal brief.
403
00:21:22,672 --> 00:21:25,936
Rankin brought in New York
Law Professor Norman Redlich
404
00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:27,895
as a special assistant
to the Commission.
405
00:21:28,374 --> 00:21:31,202
And Norman then brought in
Mel Eisenberg,
406
00:21:31,246 --> 00:21:33,814
who was an associate
for a New York firm.
407
00:21:34,771 --> 00:21:38,079
Finally, additional young staff attorneys were brought in.
408
00:21:38,514 --> 00:21:39,515
Richard Mosk,
409
00:21:41,038 --> 00:21:44,390
Stuart Pollak, Murray Laulicht,
and Lloyd Weinreb.
410
00:21:45,042 --> 00:21:46,827
And in the final months,
411
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:49,351
a young law clerk
for the Supreme Court Justice,
412
00:21:49,395 --> 00:21:52,006
Arthur Goldberg,
joined as a fact checker.
413
00:21:52,398 --> 00:21:54,487
His name, Stephen Breyer.
414
00:21:55,357 --> 00:21:58,795
Justice Breyer now serves
as an Associate Justice
415
00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:01,494
of the Supreme Court
of the United States.
416
00:22:02,277 --> 00:22:04,671
[Howard]
Uh, this was an extremely
talented group,
417
00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:08,109
each of whom has succeeded
at everything
418
00:22:08,152 --> 00:22:10,372
he had attempted during
the course of his life,
419
00:22:10,416 --> 00:22:13,114
from grammar school
through the practice of law.
420
00:22:13,157 --> 00:22:16,552
Here you had people
from the outside
deliberately chosen
421
00:22:17,466 --> 00:22:19,642
because they did not
have to take orders
from the Commission
422
00:22:19,686 --> 00:22:20,948
or from J. Lee Rankin.
423
00:22:20,991 --> 00:22:22,123
If they didn't like
424
00:22:22,166 --> 00:22:23,559
what this Commission was doing,
425
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:26,693
or if there was
a conclusion reached
that they disagreed with,
426
00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:28,172
they were free to go public
427
00:22:28,608 --> 00:22:30,044
with their disagreement
428
00:22:31,741 --> 00:22:34,440
and thereby impeach
the credibility
of the entire report.
429
00:22:35,005 --> 00:22:40,141
Uh, and so,
it was important to not repress
430
00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:43,405
the enthusiasms
and the investigative inquiries
431
00:22:43,753 --> 00:22:48,323
of some of the more, uh,
talented and aggressive
investigative lawyers.
432
00:22:49,324 --> 00:22:51,979
They recognized
the limitations of the FBI work,
433
00:22:52,022 --> 00:22:53,850
they recognized
its achievements,
434
00:22:53,894 --> 00:22:57,332
but also the fact that it was
only a starting point
435
00:22:57,767 --> 00:22:59,552
and much more work
needed to be done
436
00:22:59,595 --> 00:23:02,642
in order to deal not only
with ascertaining the facts
437
00:23:03,164 --> 00:23:06,515
with precision and completeness,
but also to, uh,
438
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:10,998
answer this rumors that were
constantly circulating.
439
00:23:11,041 --> 00:23:14,523
[Alfred]
The commission had to undertake
its own investigation.
440
00:23:14,567 --> 00:23:18,222
It couldn't simply
rubber stamp the FBI report,
441
00:23:18,527 --> 00:23:22,662
and there were reasons
for believing the FBI didn't
look good in these things.
442
00:23:22,705 --> 00:23:24,707
So, there was,
from the beginning,
443
00:23:24,751 --> 00:23:31,497
there was a certain amount
of suspicion and distrust
444
00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:34,325
between the commission
and the FBI.
445
00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:37,764
When the Commission
decided to conduct
its own investigation,
446
00:23:37,807 --> 00:23:39,461
it was the decision by lawyers
447
00:23:40,027 --> 00:23:42,986
that they wanted to develop
a body of sworn testimony
448
00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:47,338
on the basis of which
they could have more o-- uh,
449
00:23:47,382 --> 00:23:51,473
confidence in the, uh,
accuracy and the integrity
450
00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:53,606
of... [stutters] the testimony.
451
00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:55,738
Uh, and they then could base
their judgement
452
00:23:55,782 --> 00:23:57,436
o-- on that body of testimony.
453
00:23:59,394 --> 00:24:00,134
[Brendan]
The weight of the fact-finding
and initial thinking
454
00:24:00,177 --> 00:24:00,961
fell on the staff.
455
00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:02,658
It was these lawyers
456
00:24:02,702 --> 00:24:03,833
that would investigate
457
00:24:03,877 --> 00:24:05,095
the case from the ground up.
458
00:24:05,705 --> 00:24:07,924
[Howard]
In middle January, the, uh,
459
00:24:07,968 --> 00:24:10,492
Rankin arranged
for the Chief Justice
460
00:24:10,884 --> 00:24:14,757
to come in, uh, a--
and meet with the staff
for the first time.
461
00:24:14,801 --> 00:24:16,890
And, and the Chief Justice, uh,
462
00:24:16,933 --> 00:24:19,545
after the amenities,
told the staff,
463
00:24:20,197 --> 00:24:22,156
as he had told me
in his chambers,
464
00:24:22,678 --> 00:24:25,986
how he had reluctantly accepted
this responsibility,
465
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:29,903
and why he was determined,
uh, to ascertain the truth.
466
00:24:30,425 --> 00:24:33,080
I must say that they,
in the main,
467
00:24:33,123 --> 00:24:35,212
the lawyers who were there
were first rate.
468
00:24:35,691 --> 00:24:39,478
They were independent people
and nobody was going
to tell them
469
00:24:39,521 --> 00:24:41,828
what to do or how to do it.
470
00:24:42,698 --> 00:24:44,831
You know,
what I recall most vividly
471
00:24:45,309 --> 00:24:48,269
from the-- that meeting
with the Chief Justice
472
00:24:48,878 --> 00:24:52,186
was that the Chief Justice
said to us,
473
00:24:52,578 --> 00:24:55,015
"Your only client is the truth."
474
00:24:57,321 --> 00:25:02,544
And that set the tone
of what we did.
475
00:25:03,632 --> 00:25:04,590
And, uh,
476
00:25:05,895 --> 00:25:07,418
I wish the public
could know that.
477
00:25:08,855 --> 00:25:14,121
There were no restrictions
placed on the scope of our,
478
00:25:14,164 --> 00:25:15,949
uh, our investigation.
479
00:25:15,992 --> 00:25:18,473
I mean, to the contrary,
I mean, we were,
480
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:20,780
uh, given carte blanche.
481
00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:24,784
Uh, we, we were encouraged
to follow our inclinations,
482
00:25:24,827 --> 00:25:28,875
follow our leads and go as far
as we thought was necessary.
483
00:25:28,918 --> 00:25:32,531
I would say that all of us,
at least certainly myself
484
00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:35,142
and everybody
that I associated with,
485
00:25:35,490 --> 00:25:39,189
uh, we would love
to have been the one
486
00:25:39,233 --> 00:25:41,583
to find a conspiracy
487
00:25:41,627 --> 00:25:44,412
or something that wasn't known.
488
00:25:45,369 --> 00:25:47,676
[Burt]
The evidence was overwhelming
489
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,636
that Oswald had killed
President Kennedy.
490
00:25:51,637 --> 00:25:54,422
We worked as hard as we could
491
00:25:54,944 --> 00:25:57,294
to find evidence
that would refute that
492
00:25:57,338 --> 00:26:00,646
and evidence that would show
that there was a conspiracy.
493
00:26:01,734 --> 00:26:06,303
For, for one thing, not only was
the public concerned about that,
494
00:26:07,043 --> 00:26:09,959
but frankly,
if we could find a conspiracy,
495
00:26:10,656 --> 00:26:12,527
we'd all be national heroes.
496
00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,137
We also knew
497
00:26:14,834 --> 00:26:19,621
that this wasn't an ordinary
murder investigation.
498
00:26:19,665 --> 00:26:24,757
This, this was an event
that was going to be examined
for centuries.
499
00:26:26,976 --> 00:26:32,634
[Stuart]
That report was written
by members of the, of the staff.
500
00:26:33,809 --> 00:26:37,552
Members of the Commission,
uh, reviewed what we did,
501
00:26:37,987 --> 00:26:41,469
there was input in terms
of things that should
be investigated,
502
00:26:41,948 --> 00:26:46,430
but the members... [stutters]
of the Commission did not write
this report.
503
00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:48,737
Uh, which is, of course,
not surprising,
504
00:26:48,781 --> 00:26:50,870
uh, that's why
you have a staff for
505
00:26:50,913 --> 00:26:52,349
and you wouldn't
have expected them,
506
00:26:52,393 --> 00:26:54,090
uh, you wouldn't expect
the Chief Justice
507
00:26:54,134 --> 00:26:56,397
or Senator Russell
or anybody else
508
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,920
to be sitting down,
writing the report.
509
00:26:57,964 --> 00:27:00,227
They didn't write it.
That was the product
510
00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:05,711
of the staff and all
of the staff were trying to,
511
00:27:07,408 --> 00:27:11,978
you know, accurately depict what
the investigation had disclosed.
512
00:27:12,543 --> 00:27:15,024
My job was
checking the citations,
513
00:27:15,068 --> 00:27:18,419
that is to say,
looking at the underground--
underlying material,
514
00:27:18,462 --> 00:27:20,377
the FBI reports and so forth,
515
00:27:20,421 --> 00:27:22,989
which were referred to
in the report
516
00:27:23,032 --> 00:27:25,426
or the 20-some-odd
volumes of appendix.
517
00:27:25,469 --> 00:27:27,689
And I was pretty amazed
at the degree
518
00:27:27,733 --> 00:27:29,996
to which there had been
an investigation.
519
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,868
Uh, I think that just--
I was doing,
520
00:27:32,912 --> 00:27:38,700
I think, a part of a year of,
uh, Lee Harvey Oswald's life.
521
00:27:38,744 --> 00:27:40,789
And they've knew,
virtually, where he was
522
00:27:40,833 --> 00:27:42,573
at almost every second.
523
00:27:42,617 --> 00:27:45,707
Ninety four witnesses appeared
before the Commission,
524
00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:49,929
395 depositions were taken
by staff lawyers
525
00:27:50,364 --> 00:27:53,193
in half a dozen or more cities
around the United States.
526
00:27:54,063 --> 00:27:56,065
There were 61 sworn affidavits
527
00:27:56,109 --> 00:27:58,024
and there were two
written statements,
528
00:27:58,067 --> 00:28:01,331
the latter two being
by President Johnson
and Mrs. Johnson.
529
00:28:01,723 --> 00:28:03,551
A total of 552,
530
00:28:04,247 --> 00:28:07,337
uh, witnesses who,
through one means or another,
531
00:28:07,381 --> 00:28:11,733
provided, uh,
their view of facts
532
00:28:11,777 --> 00:28:14,301
that-- on which the Commission
based its conclusions.
533
00:28:14,344 --> 00:28:16,390
[suspenseful music]
534
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:20,089
Three shots were fired
at the President.
535
00:28:20,524 --> 00:28:21,917
The first shot missed.
536
00:28:22,875 --> 00:28:25,573
The second shot entered
his upper right back,
537
00:28:25,616 --> 00:28:27,662
exited the front of his throat.
538
00:28:27,706 --> 00:28:30,752
The third shot entered
the upper right back
539
00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:32,014
of the President's head,
540
00:28:32,667 --> 00:28:35,801
exited the right
frontal portion of the head.
541
00:28:35,844 --> 00:28:37,890
[music continues]
542
00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:46,681
I did all scientific work,
which means fingerprint
identification,
543
00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,162
handwriting identification,
544
00:28:49,597 --> 00:28:52,382
fabric identification
and so forth.
545
00:28:52,818 --> 00:28:54,820
The FBI had done reports
on all these things.
546
00:28:55,908 --> 00:28:59,041
And then I went out
and commissioned a,
547
00:28:59,085 --> 00:29:02,001
an independent, uh, scientist,
548
00:29:02,044 --> 00:29:06,048
that was true for all the,
all the tasks I, I had.
549
00:29:06,614 --> 00:29:09,748
And I would depose
both the FBI person
550
00:29:10,139 --> 00:29:12,881
and the independent person
in front of the Commission.
551
00:29:13,577 --> 00:29:16,624
Well, I crosschecked
the FBI work because there were,
552
00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:20,759
uh, suspicions about the FBI.
553
00:29:21,585 --> 00:29:26,852
Um, and so,
I wanted to make sure I had
an independent confirmation.
554
00:29:26,895 --> 00:29:30,986
I also, at the end,
made sure that everything
we did was published.
555
00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:33,946
So all the depositions,
all the testimony,
556
00:29:33,989 --> 00:29:36,992
all the photographs we had,
they were all published.
557
00:29:37,471 --> 00:29:40,343
And they all pointed
in just one direction, Oswald.
558
00:29:40,387 --> 00:29:42,432
[light tense music]
559
00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:54,749
[Vincent]
Oswald's rifle, a 6.5mm
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle
560
00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:57,447
was determined
by firearms experts
561
00:29:57,491 --> 00:29:58,666
to be the murder weapon.
562
00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:01,495
So the weapon that killed
John F. Kennedy
563
00:30:01,538 --> 00:30:04,803
was owned and possessed
by Lee Harvey Oswald.
564
00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:10,678
[Melvin]
Oswald had ordered a,
um, a rifle by mail.
565
00:30:10,721 --> 00:30:13,768
There were, uh,
fingerprints on the rifle.
566
00:30:14,073 --> 00:30:17,598
The leading fingerprint expert
outside the FBI confirmed
567
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:20,035
that these were Oswald's prints.
568
00:30:20,644 --> 00:30:22,255
There was also a palm print.
569
00:30:22,646 --> 00:30:24,866
And so, Oswald's palm print
was on the rifle
570
00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:26,694
as well as the fingerprints.
571
00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:30,045
[Howard]
So we have the rifle
on the scene,
572
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,961
and so-- and we have
the three cartridges,
573
00:30:33,614 --> 00:30:36,660
uh, that were used
to fire the three shots.
574
00:30:36,704 --> 00:30:41,056
Now, there were witnesses
in Dealey Plaza that day, uh,
575
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:44,973
they heard anywhere
from two to eight shots.
576
00:30:45,017 --> 00:30:47,802
Uh, the consensus seemed
to be three shots.
577
00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:50,065
The Commission concluded
there were three shots,
578
00:30:50,109 --> 00:30:54,330
based in part on the,
um, plurality of the views
579
00:30:54,374 --> 00:30:57,072
and also the fact that
there were three cartridges.
580
00:30:57,464 --> 00:31:00,032
The thing that people
don't understand,
581
00:31:00,075 --> 00:31:02,599
those of us who are in the,
the legal process,
582
00:31:02,643 --> 00:31:05,428
is that in every, uh,
583
00:31:05,472 --> 00:31:07,866
case,
whether it be an accident case
584
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:10,042
or a, uh, any type of dispute,
585
00:31:10,085 --> 00:31:13,915
there are always facts
which are inconsistent
586
00:31:13,959 --> 00:31:18,267
with what ultimately is
the assessment of what occurred.
587
00:31:18,659 --> 00:31:22,054
Uh, for example,
in this instance, uh,
588
00:31:22,097 --> 00:31:23,969
some people heard two shots,
589
00:31:24,012 --> 00:31:26,885
some people heard four shots,
some people heard five shots.
590
00:31:26,928 --> 00:31:29,931
So there is, there is various
evidence that is inconsistent
591
00:31:29,975 --> 00:31:33,804
with the, um,
the overwhelming evidence,
592
00:31:33,848 --> 00:31:36,677
including scientific evidence
that there were three shots.
593
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,722
[suspenseful music]
594
00:31:38,766 --> 00:31:42,335
[Howard]
So, the question is, uh,
where had the rifle been,
595
00:31:42,378 --> 00:31:43,989
and how did it get
to the Depository,
596
00:31:44,032 --> 00:31:45,947
and the evidence developed
that the rifle
597
00:31:45,991 --> 00:31:48,819
had been kept wrapped
in a blanket in the garage
598
00:31:48,863 --> 00:31:51,474
at the Paine household
in Irving, Texas.
599
00:31:51,866 --> 00:31:55,914
On Thursday 21st,
he went out to the garage,
600
00:31:55,957 --> 00:31:58,786
uh, and he got the rifle
and he put it in a brown bag,
601
00:31:58,829 --> 00:32:01,789
he broke it down into pieces
and put it in a brown bag.
602
00:32:02,616 --> 00:32:05,619
The package was found
on the sixth floor
of the Depository
603
00:32:05,662 --> 00:32:08,361
and inside the package
were found remnants
of the carpet
604
00:32:08,404 --> 00:32:11,233
in which it was kept
at the Paine garage.
605
00:32:11,625 --> 00:32:13,757
After the shooting
in Dealey Plaza,
606
00:32:14,323 --> 00:32:16,586
Oswald was the only worker
607
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:19,981
at the seven story
Book Depository building
608
00:32:20,025 --> 00:32:21,765
who fled the building.
609
00:32:21,809 --> 00:32:23,854
These are very,
very incriminating things.
610
00:32:23,898 --> 00:32:25,682
Forty-five minutes later,
611
00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:29,338
Oswald shot and killed
Officer J. D. Tippit
612
00:32:29,382 --> 00:32:30,818
of the Dallas Police Department
613
00:32:30,861 --> 00:32:33,647
when Tippit stopped him
on the street
614
00:32:33,690 --> 00:32:34,735
for questioning.
615
00:32:35,127 --> 00:32:37,172
[Howard]
This murder and,
616
00:32:37,216 --> 00:32:39,653
and Oswald's subsequent flight
617
00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:42,308
was witnessed
by at least 12 people.
618
00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:44,266
They traced him
into the theater,
619
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:46,573
the Texas Theater,
uh, at which point
620
00:32:46,616 --> 00:32:49,968
the police were called
and they apprehended him
in the theater.
621
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:54,973
[Vincent]
When Oswald was
interrogated for 12 hours
622
00:32:55,016 --> 00:32:57,976
over a three day period
by the Dallas Police Department,
623
00:32:58,498 --> 00:33:00,761
he told one provable,
624
00:33:00,804 --> 00:33:02,328
let's underline
the word provable,
625
00:33:02,371 --> 00:33:05,679
one provable lie after another,
626
00:33:06,071 --> 00:33:08,464
all of which, of course,
show a consciousness of guilt.
627
00:33:09,335 --> 00:33:13,165
So in my mind, uh, there's no
question about Oswald's guilt.
628
00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:15,210
I'm satisfied, not just beyond
a reasonable doubt,
629
00:33:15,254 --> 00:33:18,300
but beyond all doubts.
It's not even an open question.
630
00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,955
[suspenseful music]
631
00:33:22,087 --> 00:33:24,567
[Brendan]
One of the unusual aspects
of Oswald's life
632
00:33:24,611 --> 00:33:26,482
was when, in 1959,
633
00:33:26,526 --> 00:33:29,007
the former Marine
defected to the Soviet Union.
634
00:33:29,746 --> 00:33:33,185
Moscow-based American journalist Priscilla McMillan,
635
00:33:33,228 --> 00:33:37,058
who by coincidence
had previously worked
for Senator John Kennedy,
636
00:33:37,493 --> 00:33:40,235
was asked by an official
at the consulate
637
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:43,586
to speak to a new defector
residing in her hotel.
638
00:33:44,326 --> 00:33:47,547
[Priscilla]
So that afternoon,
I went back to my hotel,
639
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:51,464
the Metropol, and asked him
if I could talk to him.
640
00:33:52,073 --> 00:33:54,423
He claimed he was a Marxist.
641
00:33:54,902 --> 00:33:57,818
And I'd not seen any Russian
642
00:33:57,861 --> 00:34:02,040
for quite a while who claimed
that they were a Marxist
643
00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:06,566
and that they believed in.
And, and he said he'd read Marx.
644
00:34:06,609 --> 00:34:10,091
He believed in Marx's Leninism.
645
00:34:10,135 --> 00:34:13,660
I could see that he was
pretty an angry person.
646
00:34:14,182 --> 00:34:17,055
[Vincent]
Oswald was a complex individual.
647
00:34:18,012 --> 00:34:19,927
He was a dyslexic,
648
00:34:20,449 --> 00:34:23,931
but he voraciously read
serious books,
649
00:34:23,974 --> 00:34:26,368
mostly biographies
of world leaders.
650
00:34:28,022 --> 00:34:29,545
I think he was intelligent,
651
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:31,765
slightly
on the intellectual side,
652
00:34:31,808 --> 00:34:33,549
but very, very unstable,
653
00:34:34,246 --> 00:34:38,076
and an emotionally unhinged,
malcontent,
654
00:34:38,902 --> 00:34:42,645
uh, whose wife, Marina,
said, "He'd only be happy
on the moon."
655
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:46,432
His life was left-wing politics,
656
00:34:47,085 --> 00:34:50,653
and he viewed himself
as a militant soldier of action
657
00:34:50,697 --> 00:34:54,222
in the, uh,
Marxist class struggle.
658
00:34:54,266 --> 00:34:56,311
[light somber music]
659
00:34:57,269 --> 00:35:00,446
[Priscilla]
He thought he was coming
to a revolutionary country
660
00:35:00,489 --> 00:35:02,187
where everything
would be simple.
661
00:35:03,188 --> 00:35:05,712
But it was not simple.
662
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,019
He didn't like the bureaucracy.
663
00:35:09,672 --> 00:35:11,979
Everything you did, you had to,
664
00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:19,160
uh, go to some bureau
and apply and wait
for hours for an answer.
665
00:35:19,204 --> 00:35:21,162
He didn't like the food.
666
00:35:21,206 --> 00:35:23,121
He didn't like his job.
667
00:35:24,731 --> 00:35:27,777
People were cautious
about getting to know him.
668
00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:30,867
Um, probably...
669
00:35:32,217 --> 00:35:34,044
they didn't like him much.
670
00:35:34,088 --> 00:35:38,397
He certainly didn't distinguish
himself as a hard worker.
671
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,530
He slacked off all the time
at the factory,
672
00:35:41,574 --> 00:35:43,750
but they let him
get away with it.
673
00:35:43,793 --> 00:35:46,796
They treated him very,
very well,
674
00:35:47,449 --> 00:35:51,061
much better than they would've
ever treated a soviet citizen,
675
00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:55,631
but, uh,
he didn't appreciate that.
676
00:35:56,589 --> 00:35:58,156
He thought he was special.
677
00:35:58,678 --> 00:36:02,334
And ev-- everywhere he lived
he felt he was special.
678
00:36:03,291 --> 00:36:06,903
One thing we know
is that Lee Harvey Oswald
679
00:36:06,947 --> 00:36:09,254
had delusions of grandeur.
680
00:36:09,906 --> 00:36:13,301
Uh, he viewed himself
in a very historical light.
681
00:36:13,345 --> 00:36:17,392
In fact, his diary, he called,
"The Historic Diary."
682
00:36:18,132 --> 00:36:20,743
A squad member
of Oswald's in the Marines
683
00:36:20,787 --> 00:36:22,528
said that Oswald wanted
to do something
684
00:36:22,571 --> 00:36:24,791
that 10,000 years from now
685
00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:26,314
people would know about.
686
00:36:27,446 --> 00:36:29,099
Uh, his wife, Marina,
687
00:36:29,535 --> 00:36:31,450
said that he compared himself
688
00:36:31,493 --> 00:36:33,103
with the great figures
of history.
689
00:36:33,147 --> 00:36:35,454
So certainly we know that
Oswald was someone
690
00:36:35,845 --> 00:36:37,499
who didn't just want
to create a ripple,
691
00:36:37,543 --> 00:36:40,459
but wanted to change
the tide of history.
692
00:36:41,373 --> 00:36:43,331
[Brendan] Lee Oswald met Marina Prusakova
693
00:36:43,375 --> 00:36:45,768
while living in Minsk,
in the Soviet Union.
694
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:49,511
Priscilla McMillan
later got to know Marina
695
00:36:49,555 --> 00:36:51,426
and learn about
her relationship with Lee
696
00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:54,168
when researching her book,
Marina and Lee.
697
00:36:55,430 --> 00:37:00,479
[Priscilla]
Well, the relationship between
him and Marina went very fast.
698
00:37:00,957 --> 00:37:04,134
Very, very fast.
And it makes you think
699
00:37:04,831 --> 00:37:07,877
that Marina sort
of set her cap for him
700
00:37:07,921 --> 00:37:12,360
and aimed to, um, marry him.
701
00:37:12,404 --> 00:37:14,014
[gentle music]
702
00:37:14,057 --> 00:37:16,538
When they were on the ship
703
00:37:16,582 --> 00:37:18,410
coming back
to the United States,
704
00:37:19,411 --> 00:37:21,500
Lee was writing the whole time.
705
00:37:22,327 --> 00:37:25,982
He was writing about his life
in the Soviet Union.
706
00:37:26,374 --> 00:37:29,377
He ignored Marina completely.
707
00:37:29,943 --> 00:37:32,511
And it was very,
very hard for her,
708
00:37:32,554 --> 00:37:36,210
because she was coming
to a new country with a baby,
709
00:37:36,819 --> 00:37:38,299
and, um,
710
00:37:39,344 --> 00:37:41,998
he paid no attention
to her at all.
711
00:37:42,608 --> 00:37:46,307
He would hit her
across the face,
712
00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:49,354
and her face would get very red.
713
00:37:50,006 --> 00:37:53,706
Sometimes her eyes--
had a black eye.
714
00:37:54,533 --> 00:37:57,971
She was ashamed,
you know, to let people see
715
00:37:58,406 --> 00:37:59,929
that he beat her.
716
00:38:01,627 --> 00:38:04,847
[Ruth]
I first met Lee and Marina
717
00:38:04,891 --> 00:38:08,895
in February 1963, February 22nd,
718
00:38:09,417 --> 00:38:12,072
um, at the home of a friend.
719
00:38:12,115 --> 00:38:15,728
And, uh, he had invited me
because he knew
720
00:38:15,771 --> 00:38:18,644
I was trying to learn Russian
and that he was going to have
721
00:38:18,687 --> 00:38:21,864
a couple of Russian speakers
there and thought I might
be interested.
722
00:38:21,908 --> 00:38:24,476
At the party itself, uh,
723
00:38:24,954 --> 00:38:27,827
Marina would spent a good bit
of the time in the bedroom
724
00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:30,308
trying to get
her young daughter to sleep.
725
00:38:30,786 --> 00:38:33,136
Uh, but sh-- also, she really--
726
00:38:33,441 --> 00:38:35,835
she couldn't understand
the conversation,
727
00:38:35,878 --> 00:38:39,578
she really didn't have any
English skills at that point.
728
00:38:40,013 --> 00:38:42,363
And, uh,
so I went into the bedroom
729
00:38:42,407 --> 00:38:44,104
and tried to talk to her.
I was...
730
00:38:46,019 --> 00:38:48,978
not real strong in Russian,
but I did make an effort
731
00:38:49,022 --> 00:38:50,937
to talk and we did talk.
732
00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:55,158
And they were living in the,
the Oak Cliff section
of Dallas at that point.
733
00:38:55,507 --> 00:38:58,248
I guess it was the second time
I went down to visit her
734
00:38:58,292 --> 00:39:00,642
in Oak Cliff
during the time of--
735
00:39:00,686 --> 00:39:02,644
Lee would've been
at work at that time.
736
00:39:02,992 --> 00:39:08,389
And we went out to a park
and she was telling me that, uh,
737
00:39:08,433 --> 00:39:10,304
she was expecting another baby,
738
00:39:10,348 --> 00:39:14,134
but also that Lee wanted her
to go back to the Soviet Union.
739
00:39:14,526 --> 00:39:19,400
And, um, and I gathered she was
seeing this as a separation,
740
00:39:19,444 --> 00:39:22,185
and that that would be
the end of the marriage.
741
00:39:22,577 --> 00:39:25,580
And here she is, one child
and another on the way,
742
00:39:26,102 --> 00:39:28,627
and she loved America,
she really wanted to stay.
743
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:33,545
So I was upset that that was
what Lee seemed to want for her.
744
00:39:35,068 --> 00:39:40,073
I came another time to see her
and, uh, discovered that Lee
745
00:39:40,116 --> 00:39:42,075
was all packed up,
746
00:39:42,467 --> 00:39:45,557
ready to go
on a bus to New Orleans.
747
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,429
And, uh, in fact,
he wanted a ride to the station
748
00:39:48,473 --> 00:39:50,257
with his things and I did that.
749
00:39:50,779 --> 00:39:53,565
Uh, and he was expecting--
he got a ticket for Marina
750
00:39:53,608 --> 00:39:56,481
and was expecting her
to get on the bus
751
00:39:56,524 --> 00:39:59,135
with the baby
and all the paraphernalia
that goes with that
752
00:39:59,484 --> 00:40:02,530
and go down to New Orleans when
he had a place for them to stay.
753
00:40:02,574 --> 00:40:05,533
So I said, "How about
if Marina stays at my house?
754
00:40:05,577 --> 00:40:09,232
I have a phone. You can call
and I can bring her down
755
00:40:09,276 --> 00:40:11,365
to New Orleans
when you have a place."
756
00:40:12,322 --> 00:40:14,760
[Brendan]
What Ruth didn't know
was that Oswald needed
757
00:40:14,803 --> 00:40:17,197
to leave town
for a very specific reason.
758
00:40:18,024 --> 00:40:19,373
[Vincent]
How many people know
759
00:40:20,940 --> 00:40:24,204
that six and a half months
before Oswald killed Kennedy,
760
00:40:24,552 --> 00:40:27,860
he attempted to murder
another public figure,
761
00:40:28,208 --> 00:40:30,297
Major-General Edwin Walker.
762
00:40:30,993 --> 00:40:33,431
He became very popular
763
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:37,304
uh, in the United States
among the ultra-right-wing,
764
00:40:37,347 --> 00:40:42,135
because it was discovered
that he was indoctrinating
his troops in Germany
765
00:40:42,483 --> 00:40:45,007
with literature
from the John Birch Society.
766
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:47,009
[Burt]
And for that reason,
767
00:40:47,053 --> 00:40:49,185
he was relieved
of his command by Kennedy.
768
00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:53,494
But, um,
Walker had come back to Dallas
769
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:55,365
to actually be a hero
770
00:40:55,714 --> 00:40:58,368
of the ultra-conservative
community,
771
00:40:58,412 --> 00:41:00,588
many of whom wanted him
to run for president.
772
00:41:00,632 --> 00:41:02,111
[light tense music]
773
00:41:02,155 --> 00:41:05,637
[Priscilla]
Well, Lee began sighting
774
00:41:06,507 --> 00:41:08,378
the house of General Walker.
775
00:41:08,422 --> 00:41:10,380
Marina knew nothing of this.
776
00:41:10,903 --> 00:41:13,383
He also began
practicing shooting
777
00:41:13,427 --> 00:41:17,823
once he got,
he got both a pistol and a rifle
778
00:41:18,258 --> 00:41:19,607
through a mail order.
779
00:41:20,216 --> 00:41:21,957
[Burt]
One of the things he learned
780
00:41:22,001 --> 00:41:24,917
was that there was a way
that you could shoot at Walker
781
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,006
while he was in the house
from behind a fence,
782
00:41:27,789 --> 00:41:31,532
that picket fence, uh,
that was behind his house.
783
00:41:32,272 --> 00:41:35,188
A few nights before
his income taxes were returned,
784
00:41:35,536 --> 00:41:39,105
uh, Walker was
in a back room study
785
00:41:39,148 --> 00:41:40,759
on the first floor of his house.
786
00:41:41,542 --> 00:41:45,503
Oswald was, uh,
behind the picket fence.
787
00:41:45,546 --> 00:41:50,333
And Oswald shot at Walker
with his Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle.
788
00:41:51,073 --> 00:41:52,640
[Priscilla]
He buried the rifle.
789
00:41:53,162 --> 00:41:57,427
He ran home
and came home breathless.
790
00:41:58,428 --> 00:42:01,649
And he told Marina
he had shot Walker,
791
00:42:02,084 --> 00:42:04,522
and Marina didn't know
who that was.
792
00:42:05,348 --> 00:42:07,481
And he laid down on the bed
793
00:42:08,221 --> 00:42:11,267
very red and breathing heavily.
794
00:42:15,228 --> 00:42:19,493
But eventually
he told her who Walker was.
795
00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:25,064
And then he listened that night
and especially the next morning
796
00:42:25,107 --> 00:42:26,761
to the radio.
797
00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:29,547
And he said, "I missed."
798
00:42:29,982 --> 00:42:34,464
He said, "He moved
his head at the last minute,
799
00:42:35,596 --> 00:42:38,643
and it's only because he moved
his head that I missed."
800
00:42:40,035 --> 00:42:42,081
[somber music]
801
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,654
I think what brought Walker
within the crosshairs of, uh,
802
00:42:50,263 --> 00:42:52,091
of Oswald's Carcano rifle
803
00:42:52,744 --> 00:42:57,705
is that, uh, Walker,
like Kennedy, was a bitter enemy
804
00:42:58,663 --> 00:43:02,536
of Oswald's beloved
Fidel Castro.
805
00:43:03,058 --> 00:43:05,539
To stand in ovations
around the country,
806
00:43:05,974 --> 00:43:10,588
Walker was demanding that
the United States invade Cuba
807
00:43:10,631 --> 00:43:12,807
and remove Castro from power.
808
00:43:13,416 --> 00:43:15,680
I heard later, much later,
809
00:43:15,723 --> 00:43:20,119
that, um, Marina had recommended
that he move to New Orleans.
810
00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:22,469
Part of why she was saying that
811
00:43:22,512 --> 00:43:25,907
was because she knew he had made
an attempt to kill somebody,
812
00:43:26,342 --> 00:43:28,867
and felt
that that was the very--
813
00:43:28,910 --> 00:43:31,913
she was very worried
about it and didn't know
what to do, I'm sure.
814
00:43:32,914 --> 00:43:35,264
But thought maybe leaving town
would be a good idea.
815
00:43:36,570 --> 00:43:38,659
[Brendan]
Before Oswald left
the Dallas area,
816
00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:41,401
he had Marina snap a picture
of him holding the rifle
817
00:43:41,444 --> 00:43:43,229
used in the attempt on Walker.
818
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:46,406
In the photo, Oswald had
a pistol in his pocket
819
00:43:46,449 --> 00:43:48,190
and two left-wing newspapers,
820
00:43:48,234 --> 00:43:49,931
The Militant andThe Worker.
821
00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:53,021
The authenticity of this photo
has been challenged
822
00:43:53,065 --> 00:43:55,067
by conspiracy theorists.
823
00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:57,069
[suspenseful music]
824
00:43:57,112 --> 00:43:59,027
Marina, Oswald's wife,
825
00:43:59,637 --> 00:44:02,204
told the Warren Commission,
told me personally,
826
00:44:02,857 --> 00:44:04,772
that she took the backyard photo
827
00:44:04,816 --> 00:44:08,646
of Oswald holding the Carcano
rifle, the murder weapon.
828
00:44:08,689 --> 00:44:10,430
You know
what their position is on that?
829
00:44:10,473 --> 00:44:12,693
"Well, it's Oswald's head,
but it's been super imposed
830
00:44:12,737 --> 00:44:14,216
upon someone else's body."
831
00:44:14,826 --> 00:44:16,566
[Brendan]
In the mid-1970s,
832
00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:18,568
The House Select Committee
on Assassinations
833
00:44:18,612 --> 00:44:20,222
was able to take advantage
834
00:44:20,266 --> 00:44:23,051
of modern technological
advances and methods
835
00:44:23,095 --> 00:44:26,751
to prove that the photo was,
in fact, genuine.
836
00:44:30,537 --> 00:44:32,757
Lee calls on the phone
as agreed,
837
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,457
he calls my house and,
uh, she, she's elated, really,
838
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:42,288
that he's called
and says to her daughter,
839
00:44:42,331 --> 00:44:44,682
[speaks in Russian]
"Father loves us."
840
00:44:45,117 --> 00:44:47,206
And she was eager
then to go down
841
00:44:47,249 --> 00:44:48,773
to join him in New Orleans.
842
00:44:48,816 --> 00:44:52,341
So we... [laughs]
piled in my station wagon,
843
00:44:52,733 --> 00:44:54,735
uh, two mothers and three kids,
844
00:44:55,083 --> 00:44:56,606
went on down to New Orleans.
845
00:44:57,172 --> 00:45:00,872
Over the summer,
I, um, wrote Marina,
846
00:45:01,394 --> 00:45:04,397
a good practice for somebody
trying to learn Russian.
847
00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:07,748
And then I'd learned
from what she wrote that, uh,
848
00:45:07,792 --> 00:45:09,750
Lee had lost his job again.
849
00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:13,623
Lee said he was going to go
look for work at other places.
850
00:45:14,624 --> 00:45:15,669
And...
851
00:45:17,671 --> 00:45:20,587
it just seemed that, that
he didn't have plans for her.
852
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:24,025
And I suggested
that she could come back with me
853
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:26,724
and stay at my house,
like, until he got a job
854
00:45:26,767 --> 00:45:28,813
and that he would
have saved enough money
855
00:45:28,856 --> 00:45:30,597
to have an apartment
for them again.
856
00:45:31,554 --> 00:45:33,600
I think he was
really quite grateful
857
00:45:33,643 --> 00:45:37,038
to have a chance
for her to be with somebody.
858
00:45:38,126 --> 00:45:40,781
[Brendan]
While living in New Orleans,
Oswald participated
859
00:45:40,825 --> 00:45:43,218
in activities in support
of Fidel Castro.
860
00:45:43,697 --> 00:45:46,134
He joined the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
861
00:45:46,178 --> 00:45:48,789
and passed out literature,
deliberately,
862
00:45:48,833 --> 00:45:52,053
in the vicinity
of an anti-Castro group,
863
00:45:52,401 --> 00:45:53,968
provoking a fight.
864
00:45:54,012 --> 00:45:56,492
He was arrested
but subsequently released.
865
00:45:57,929 --> 00:46:00,496
Both Oswald
and the Anti-Castro groups
866
00:46:00,540 --> 00:46:03,282
participated in radio
and television debates,
867
00:46:03,325 --> 00:46:06,764
where Oswald continually voiced his support of Fidel Castro.
868
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:10,376
[interviewer]
In your work with the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee,
869
00:46:10,419 --> 00:46:12,160
uh, what are you advocating?
870
00:46:12,726 --> 00:46:14,946
We advocate restoration
of diplomatic,
871
00:46:14,989 --> 00:46:17,078
trade, and tourist
relations with Cuba.
872
00:46:17,862 --> 00:46:20,255
[Brendan]
Marina's explanation
to the Warren Commission
873
00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:23,302
was that Oswald was trying
to assemble a dossier
874
00:46:23,345 --> 00:46:26,914
demonstrating his devotion
to the Castro regime.
875
00:46:26,958 --> 00:46:29,830
His real goal was to leave
the United States
876
00:46:29,874 --> 00:46:32,311
and go to Cuba and be part
of the insurrection
877
00:46:32,354 --> 00:46:35,531
that Castro was hoping
to lead in Latin America.
878
00:46:36,054 --> 00:46:40,275
Meanwhile, Ruth thinks,
Ruth Paine thinks
879
00:46:40,319 --> 00:46:42,800
that Oswald's looking
for a job... [softly chuckles]
880
00:46:43,235 --> 00:46:46,281
...uh, in-- and-- uh,
881
00:46:46,325 --> 00:46:49,807
and not knowing
where in the country he's
going to look for a job.
882
00:46:49,850 --> 00:46:53,114
[Brendan]
In truth, Oswald was headed
to Mexico City.
883
00:46:53,898 --> 00:46:55,377
At the Cuban embassy there,
884
00:46:55,421 --> 00:46:57,815
he attempted to get
a transit visa
885
00:46:57,858 --> 00:47:00,339
through Cuba
back to the Soviet Union.
886
00:47:01,122 --> 00:47:04,560
He was denied
because it would require
approval from the Soviets.
887
00:47:05,213 --> 00:47:07,999
At the Soviet embassy,
he was told such a visa
888
00:47:08,042 --> 00:47:11,393
would take months and require
approval from Moscow.
889
00:47:12,220 --> 00:47:14,440
Oswald left Mexico City
discouraged.
890
00:47:15,789 --> 00:47:18,400
Oswald is very unhappy,
very frustrated,
891
00:47:18,879 --> 00:47:19,793
feels he's been,
892
00:47:20,968 --> 00:47:24,145
uh, rebuffed,
if not rejected, in Cuba,
893
00:47:24,189 --> 00:47:26,060
and has to go back
to the United States.
894
00:47:26,104 --> 00:47:28,149
[somber music]
895
00:47:29,324 --> 00:47:32,284
[Brendan]
After Oswald returned
from Mexico City,
896
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,766
again without a job, he moved into a boarding house in Dallas.
897
00:47:37,463 --> 00:47:40,858
Marina remained at Ruth Paine's
home in Irving, Texas.
898
00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:46,037
I didn't really know
where Lee was living, but, uh,
899
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,909
he gave us a phone number
as to where he was.
900
00:47:48,953 --> 00:47:51,564
Marina and I were visiting
a next-door neighbor
901
00:47:51,912 --> 00:47:55,481
and talking with, uh, a further
neighbor who came around
902
00:47:55,524 --> 00:47:58,266
to coffee klatch to the women
and their children
in the morning.
903
00:47:58,614 --> 00:48:02,053
And, um, I mentioned
that he was looking for a work
904
00:48:02,096 --> 00:48:04,882
and not doing too well
getting anything.
905
00:48:05,883 --> 00:48:08,320
And, uh, the neighbor,
Linnie Mae Randle,
906
00:48:08,363 --> 00:48:09,799
mentioned that her brother
907
00:48:10,148 --> 00:48:12,324
was working
at the School Book Depository
908
00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:15,327
and at-- early in the fall year,
909
00:48:15,370 --> 00:48:18,417
and they were still filling
school book's orders,
910
00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:20,898
and she thought there might be
an opening there.
911
00:48:21,333 --> 00:48:23,248
So I translated that--
912
00:48:23,291 --> 00:48:25,859
when we got home,
I translated that to Marina,
913
00:48:25,903 --> 00:48:28,949
who asked me to call
the School Book Depository
914
00:48:28,993 --> 00:48:31,125
and see if, in fact,
they were hiring.
915
00:48:31,647 --> 00:48:34,215
And so I called
and talked to someone
916
00:48:34,259 --> 00:48:36,826
who didn't say
whether they were hiring,
917
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:39,046
but I described
this young man with a wife
918
00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:41,570
and two little girls.
919
00:48:41,614 --> 00:48:43,616
And, uh, they--
920
00:48:44,617 --> 00:48:47,750
Roy Truly, the guy who was
the personnel person,
921
00:48:47,794 --> 00:48:49,404
said,
"Well, just let him come by."
922
00:48:49,448 --> 00:48:51,058
So, he didn't say
there was an opening,
923
00:48:51,102 --> 00:48:53,147
but he suggested
that he could come by.
924
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:59,806
[Burt]
Oswald's normal
practice was to go
925
00:49:00,589 --> 00:49:04,289
to spend the weekend at Ruth
Paine's house with Marina.
926
00:49:05,029 --> 00:49:08,162
But on Thursday, November 14th,
927
00:49:09,337 --> 00:49:12,253
Marina suggests to Lee
928
00:49:12,297 --> 00:49:14,212
that he should not
come out that weekend
929
00:49:16,562 --> 00:49:20,087
because he'd spent three days
there the previous weekend,
930
00:49:20,131 --> 00:49:23,264
the holiday weekend,
and maybe the family,
931
00:49:23,308 --> 00:49:26,224
the Paine family needed
some time for themselves
without him.
932
00:49:27,442 --> 00:49:28,443
So he accepts that.
933
00:49:29,357 --> 00:49:31,707
[Ruth]
By Sunday, she was lonely
934
00:49:31,751 --> 00:49:34,188
and I suggested I'd call
935
00:49:34,232 --> 00:49:36,451
using this number that we had,
936
00:49:36,495 --> 00:49:38,540
and, uh,
so she could talk to him.
937
00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:42,283
So I dialed the number and,
uh, someone answered
938
00:49:42,327 --> 00:49:44,024
and I asked for Lee Oswald
and she says,
939
00:49:44,068 --> 00:49:46,331
"There's nobody here
by that name."
940
00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:49,682
And also I checked the number,
that was the right number,
941
00:49:50,291 --> 00:49:52,511
um, and I hang up in confusion
942
00:49:52,554 --> 00:49:54,774
and, and told Marina
what had happened.
943
00:49:55,514 --> 00:49:56,776
Well, the next day,
944
00:49:57,385 --> 00:49:59,213
when Lee called
as he usually did
945
00:49:59,257 --> 00:50:01,433
after work on workdays,
946
00:50:01,476 --> 00:50:06,220
uh, Marina said th--
that we had tried to call him
947
00:50:06,264 --> 00:50:09,180
and he bawled her out
948
00:50:09,789 --> 00:50:13,271
for trying to reach him
and asking for him by name.
949
00:50:13,314 --> 00:50:15,012
He says he's using
a different name.
950
00:50:15,055 --> 00:50:16,535
He's living as O. H. Lee,
951
00:50:16,578 --> 00:50:20,017
which is the reverse
initials of his name.
952
00:50:21,061 --> 00:50:23,933
And Marina asks him why,
953
00:50:24,847 --> 00:50:26,153
and he said, "Well,"
954
00:50:27,024 --> 00:50:29,417
he doesn't want the FBI
to be able to find him.
955
00:50:29,461 --> 00:50:32,899
"Because," and part of this,
as he explains it to her,
956
00:50:32,942 --> 00:50:35,423
is that the FBI is going
to cause him to lose his job.
957
00:50:38,296 --> 00:50:39,601
She's very angry
958
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:41,908
and stops talking to him.
959
00:50:42,343 --> 00:50:44,563
And probably
what she said to him was,
960
00:50:44,606 --> 00:50:46,434
"You and your aliases."
961
00:50:46,478 --> 00:50:49,611
She knew that when he was
going under an alias,
962
00:50:49,655 --> 00:50:51,309
something bad was cooking.
963
00:50:51,874 --> 00:50:55,748
Because he had gone under
the name Hidell for a long time,
964
00:50:55,791 --> 00:50:58,446
and she figured out
that that was really Fidel.
965
00:50:59,578 --> 00:51:01,754
And now he was O. H. Lee.
966
00:51:02,102 --> 00:51:04,800
She thought that meant
he was up to something,
967
00:51:04,844 --> 00:51:06,280
she just didn't know what.
968
00:51:07,064 --> 00:51:08,543
And she scolded him.
969
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:11,111
[Burt]
He tries to call her back
the next day,
970
00:51:11,155 --> 00:51:14,767
which is Monday before
the Friday of the assassination.
971
00:51:14,810 --> 00:51:16,116
She won't answer the phone.
972
00:51:16,638 --> 00:51:19,511
I think it happens again,
also, on Tuesday.
973
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:22,731
So, uh,
974
00:51:22,775 --> 00:51:25,517
all we know is that here is
this man who's being rejected
975
00:51:25,952 --> 00:51:27,867
by his wife, who's living alone,
976
00:51:28,389 --> 00:51:32,567
and there's a long history
of other bad relationships
between them.
977
00:51:34,047 --> 00:51:37,703
And, uh, and it's on the 19th
978
00:51:38,921 --> 00:51:41,707
that the route
that's going to take
979
00:51:42,403 --> 00:51:45,537
the presidential motorcade
past the School Book Depository
980
00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:47,321
is first published in the press.
981
00:51:47,365 --> 00:51:49,976
It's reasonable, certainly,
to conclude that it was
982
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:53,719
after that rejection
that he began to think about...
983
00:51:54,937 --> 00:51:55,982
shooting the President.
984
00:51:57,201 --> 00:51:59,246
[Priscilla]
So he went to work Thursday,
985
00:51:59,290 --> 00:52:01,988
and he asked Wesley Frazier,
986
00:52:02,902 --> 00:52:05,600
the Paine's neighbor,
if he could have a ride out
987
00:52:05,644 --> 00:52:07,907
to the Paine's house that night.
988
00:52:08,951 --> 00:52:12,520
And he said he needed
to get curtain rods
989
00:52:13,042 --> 00:52:16,176
for a place he was going
to rent in Dallas.
990
00:52:17,351 --> 00:52:19,310
Frazier said, "Of course, fine."
991
00:52:19,919 --> 00:52:21,007
Gave him a ride.
992
00:52:21,573 --> 00:52:23,618
On the 21st, uh,
993
00:52:24,837 --> 00:52:26,578
uh, I had been grocery shopping,
994
00:52:26,621 --> 00:52:28,145
I bought a lot
of groceries those days.
995
00:52:28,188 --> 00:52:29,842
And I came home in the car,
996
00:52:29,885 --> 00:52:32,366
and Lee was on the front lawn
997
00:52:32,410 --> 00:52:35,413
with Marina
and their little girl.
998
00:52:36,065 --> 00:52:40,200
And, uh,
I was surprised to see him
999
00:52:40,244 --> 00:52:42,333
because he didn't
usually come out,
1000
00:52:42,376 --> 00:52:45,162
he had not come out
any time except the weekend.
1001
00:52:45,205 --> 00:52:47,860
He'd never come out
without asking for an invitation
1002
00:52:47,903 --> 00:52:49,122
to see if he could come out.
1003
00:52:49,644 --> 00:52:53,170
Uh, and Marina, I think,
was very apologetic
1004
00:52:53,213 --> 00:52:54,780
about his just showing up.
1005
00:52:55,259 --> 00:52:58,479
Uh, and we both--
I thought that,
1006
00:52:58,523 --> 00:53:00,220
that he was
kind of trying to make up
1007
00:53:00,264 --> 00:53:02,353
over the argument
they'd had on the phone.
1008
00:53:02,962 --> 00:53:07,923
But, uh, anyway, he helped
carry groceries into the house.
1009
00:53:07,967 --> 00:53:11,405
[Priscilla]
Marina realized that Lee
had come to make up with her
1010
00:53:11,797 --> 00:53:16,280
after their blowup
over his having an alias,
1011
00:53:17,063 --> 00:53:18,804
and he tried to kiss her
1012
00:53:19,805 --> 00:53:22,808
when he got there,
and she turned her head away.
1013
00:53:24,113 --> 00:53:29,815
And I think he tried to kiss her
three different times,
1014
00:53:29,858 --> 00:53:33,297
and she turned her head
away every time.
1015
00:53:33,645 --> 00:53:37,388
And he also said to her, um,
1016
00:53:38,127 --> 00:53:40,521
"Come live with me in Dallas,
1017
00:53:40,565 --> 00:53:43,002
and I'll find
an apartment tomorrow."
1018
00:53:43,045 --> 00:53:45,004
He said that three times.
1019
00:53:46,527 --> 00:53:48,050
But she didn't answer.
1020
00:53:48,616 --> 00:53:53,012
It was after that,
after her not answering,
1021
00:53:53,447 --> 00:53:57,582
that he went into the garage
and got his gun.
1022
00:53:57,625 --> 00:54:00,324
I mean, she un--
he unwrapped it,
1023
00:54:00,367 --> 00:54:02,282
he located it,
1024
00:54:02,326 --> 00:54:04,763
made sure it was
where he thought it was.
1025
00:54:05,981 --> 00:54:08,549
If she'd behave
differently toward him
1026
00:54:09,028 --> 00:54:10,508
that Thursday night,
1027
00:54:10,899 --> 00:54:13,206
maybe he wouldn't
have gotten the rifle.
1028
00:54:13,989 --> 00:54:15,556
Maybe he, he wouldn't.
1029
00:54:16,862 --> 00:54:18,733
The evidence is rather powerful
1030
00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:20,909
that, on Thursday night,
1031
00:54:21,258 --> 00:54:24,783
Oswald had gone to re--
try to rebuild
1032
00:54:24,826 --> 00:54:26,611
his relationship with Marina.
1033
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,615
And we can
certainly speculate that if...
1034
00:54:31,355 --> 00:54:33,357
that relationship
had been rebuilt,
1035
00:54:33,966 --> 00:54:35,576
if she had said, "Yes,
1036
00:54:36,098 --> 00:54:37,883
I'll come back with you,"
1037
00:54:38,405 --> 00:54:40,842
that his actions
might have been different.
1038
00:54:43,758 --> 00:54:46,805
[Ruth]
We had dinner as usual
and he went to bed very early.
1039
00:54:47,371 --> 00:54:52,114
After I had put my kids
to bed with a couple
of songs and stories,
1040
00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:55,248
I, um, went to finish up
1041
00:54:55,292 --> 00:54:58,904
painting some,
some children's large blocks
1042
00:54:58,947 --> 00:55:02,168
that I was making and,
and they were in the garage.
1043
00:55:02,211 --> 00:55:03,952
I went in and I found
the light was on.
1044
00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:06,912
I thought that was
kind of strange because,
1045
00:55:06,955 --> 00:55:10,785
uh, Marina didn't go
in the garage much at all
1046
00:55:10,829 --> 00:55:14,223
and she was very much careful
about taking care
1047
00:55:14,267 --> 00:55:15,790
of turning off lights.
1048
00:55:15,834 --> 00:55:17,749
And I thought maybe
Lee had been in there,
1049
00:55:17,792 --> 00:55:19,272
but I didn't know why or...
1050
00:55:20,839 --> 00:55:23,232
what. But I did seem--
1051
00:55:23,929 --> 00:55:27,324
this is another hint
that he was distracted
1052
00:55:27,367 --> 00:55:28,890
or not quite put together,
1053
00:55:29,282 --> 00:55:30,718
that he didn't turn
the light out.
1054
00:55:31,545 --> 00:55:35,506
Marina noticed in the night
that he wasn't asleep,
1055
00:55:35,897 --> 00:55:37,812
that his legs were sticking up,
1056
00:55:37,856 --> 00:55:39,336
and when she kicked him,
1057
00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:42,817
he kicked back,
that he wasn't sleeping.
1058
00:55:43,601 --> 00:55:44,428
Um...
1059
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:47,692
But she was sleeping
in the morning
1060
00:55:49,084 --> 00:55:52,653
when he got up, and he said,
1061
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,745
"I'm leaving $170
on the bureau for you.
1062
00:55:58,355 --> 00:56:01,096
Get, get some shoes for Junie."
1063
00:56:04,404 --> 00:56:07,451
And she was asleep.
She didn't wake up.
1064
00:56:07,494 --> 00:56:09,670
She didn't get up yet.
He just went out,
1065
00:56:10,628 --> 00:56:14,327
but his voice sounded nice,
sort of tender.
1066
00:56:15,459 --> 00:56:18,375
Whether he kissed her good-bye,
I don't remember.
1067
00:56:19,071 --> 00:56:22,030
Later in the day,
she found his wedding ring
1068
00:56:22,466 --> 00:56:27,819
in her grandmother's little
porcelain cup on the bureau.
1069
00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:30,996
But she only found that later.
1070
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:33,868
She didn't find it
when she got up.
1071
00:56:35,827 --> 00:56:38,786
And we got to think about this
in terms of real people.
1072
00:56:38,830 --> 00:56:40,875
It's-- it's a lot of fun
to think about this
1073
00:56:40,919 --> 00:56:42,877
in terms of grand conspirators.
1074
00:56:43,617 --> 00:56:46,533
But these are real people
living together.
1075
00:56:47,099 --> 00:56:50,668
Uh, his wife had just had
a baby a month before.
1076
00:56:51,059 --> 00:56:53,105
He saw that, at that point,
1077
00:56:53,627 --> 00:56:56,282
his relationship
with her had ended.
1078
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:59,807
He had a job
that was going nowhere,
1079
00:56:59,851 --> 00:57:02,810
he hadn't been able
to establish a political role
1080
00:57:02,854 --> 00:57:04,464
for himself
in the United States.
1081
00:57:04,508 --> 00:57:06,423
In fact,
he had no political future
1082
00:57:06,466 --> 00:57:10,122
in the United States and he
hadn't got admitted to Cuba.
1083
00:57:10,165 --> 00:57:11,602
And he didn't want
to go to Russia.
1084
00:57:13,212 --> 00:57:14,866
H-- his life was over.
1085
00:57:15,954 --> 00:57:20,567
And this was a way
to go out in a blaze of fame.
1086
00:57:21,481 --> 00:57:23,788
He didn't need any conspirator
1087
00:57:25,180 --> 00:57:26,573
to put him up to this.
1088
00:57:26,617 --> 00:57:28,662
[gentle melancholic music]
1089
00:57:34,886 --> 00:57:37,715
[Ruth]
The next morning, on the 22nd,
1090
00:57:38,803 --> 00:57:41,283
when I got up,
Lee had already gotten up
1091
00:57:41,327 --> 00:57:44,156
and been gone to get
his ride into town.
1092
00:57:44,722 --> 00:57:47,812
I turned on the TV
to watch the Kennedy's
1093
00:57:47,855 --> 00:57:50,902
in, in Fort Worth
and watch the whole day. And,
1094
00:57:51,555 --> 00:57:55,297
uh, I had an appointment
for my daughter
with the dentist.
1095
00:57:56,298 --> 00:57:58,736
So, I was getting ready
to leave for that
1096
00:57:58,779 --> 00:58:01,086
and I decided to leave the TV on
1097
00:58:01,129 --> 00:58:04,350
in case Marina wouldn't think
about turning it on
when she got up.
1098
00:58:04,872 --> 00:58:07,658
And when I came back,
she was-- she thanked me
1099
00:58:07,701 --> 00:58:10,312
for leaving it on,
she was, was watching.
1100
00:58:10,356 --> 00:58:15,056
And by this time,
the Kennedy's were already
in the motorcade coming, uh,
1101
00:58:15,927 --> 00:58:17,232
from the airport.
1102
00:58:19,757 --> 00:58:20,801
[sighs]
1103
00:58:23,456 --> 00:58:24,631
It's a terrible time.
1104
00:58:26,372 --> 00:58:27,591
Terrible memories.
1105
00:58:29,810 --> 00:58:31,769
We were watching television
and we heard
1106
00:58:31,812 --> 00:58:34,989
that the President...
[softly gasps] had been shot.
1107
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:40,647
[sighs]
And one of the reporters said
1108
00:58:41,256 --> 00:58:46,131
he saw a pink spray come up
from the President's head,
1109
00:58:46,697 --> 00:58:48,786
and I thought,
"Oh, my God, it's fatal."
1110
00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:50,788
[softly cries]
1111
00:58:50,831 --> 00:58:52,572
And I got out some candles
1112
00:58:53,181 --> 00:58:56,837
to, to light a candle,
a-- and Marina said,
1113
00:58:56,881 --> 00:58:59,013
"Is that a way of praying?"
I said, "Yeah."
1114
00:58:59,057 --> 00:59:00,232
[deeply inhales]
1115
00:59:00,275 --> 00:59:02,277
Uh, we just sat and waited
1116
00:59:02,321 --> 00:59:04,018
to hear wh-- what was next.
1117
00:59:04,062 --> 00:59:07,021
It was, you know, another--
almost an hour
1118
00:59:07,065 --> 00:59:10,068
before it was confirmed
that he was dead.
1119
00:59:15,377 --> 00:59:17,292
Somewhere on, on the newscast,
1120
00:59:17,336 --> 00:59:20,208
it said that they thought
the shot had been fired
1121
00:59:20,252 --> 00:59:21,819
from the School Book Depository.
1122
00:59:23,734 --> 00:59:28,565
I went out to tell Marina that,
she was busy hanging up diapers.
1123
00:59:30,131 --> 00:59:31,742
We did a lot of diapers.
1124
00:59:32,830 --> 00:59:35,397
And, uh, I said
that they thought the shot
1125
00:59:35,441 --> 00:59:37,661
had been fired
from the School Book Depository.
1126
00:59:38,052 --> 00:59:39,576
And I didn't notice it,
1127
00:59:40,228 --> 00:59:44,232
didn't realize until later,
but she went into the house
1128
00:59:44,276 --> 00:59:46,539
and apparently,
from her testimony later,
1129
00:59:46,583 --> 00:59:48,585
she said she had looked to see
1130
00:59:48,976 --> 00:59:51,979
if the blanket was there
that she knew the gun was in.
1131
00:59:53,111 --> 00:59:55,243
And she thought it was there.
1132
00:59:56,854 --> 01:00:01,815
But then it, you know,
it's like four plus
in the afternoon that, uh,
1133
01:00:02,555 --> 01:00:04,818
many officers from Dallas County
1134
01:00:04,862 --> 01:00:07,865
and the Police Department
came to the door.
1135
01:00:07,908 --> 01:00:11,346
I know they said,
"We have Lee Oswald in custody
1136
01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:12,696
for shooting an officer."
1137
01:00:14,567 --> 01:00:16,613
And, "May we come in?"
And I said,
1138
01:00:16,656 --> 01:00:18,223
"Well, do you have a warrant?"
1139
01:00:18,266 --> 01:00:20,007
"No, but we could get one
right away."
1140
01:00:20,704 --> 01:00:24,490
And I thought,
"Oh, God. We're all upset."
1141
01:00:25,447 --> 01:00:27,885
So I said, "Well, okay, you can
come in. It's all right."
1142
01:00:28,450 --> 01:00:30,627
So they came in. [chuckles] Oh!
1143
01:00:31,932 --> 01:00:33,194
You have to understand
1144
01:00:35,066 --> 01:00:36,850
how naive I was.
1145
01:00:36,894 --> 01:00:38,939
I thought we'd sit
on the sofa and talk about it.
1146
01:00:39,592 --> 01:00:42,508
And the policemen
sort of fanned out
1147
01:00:42,813 --> 01:00:45,293
looking over the entire
house right away and,
1148
01:00:45,903 --> 01:00:50,603
uh, one of them asked whether,
uh, Oswald had a gun and,
1149
01:00:50,647 --> 01:00:52,126
and I said, "No."
1150
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:56,609
And translated to Marina,
who said that he did have a gun
1151
01:00:56,653 --> 01:00:59,960
and led them to the garage
and pointed to this,
1152
01:01:00,308 --> 01:01:03,181
uh, place on the floor where
there was a blanket roll on.
1153
01:01:03,747 --> 01:01:04,661
Um...
1154
01:01:08,012 --> 01:01:09,187
[softly sighs]
1155
01:01:12,059 --> 01:01:15,759
The officer picked it up
and it folded over his arm.
1156
01:01:16,107 --> 01:01:18,370
It was clearly an empty blanket.
1157
01:01:20,024 --> 01:01:23,505
And that was the point at which
I thought it could've been Lee.
1158
01:01:24,419 --> 01:01:25,290
[sharply gasps]
1159
01:01:27,466 --> 01:01:30,861
And I'd help these officers
in whatever way they need.
1160
01:01:33,994 --> 01:01:36,475
[somber music]
1161
01:01:41,785 --> 01:01:44,701
Marina didn't come back
after that Saturday morning,
1162
01:01:45,397 --> 01:01:49,531
and, um, but she called
and she needed some clothes
for the baby
1163
01:01:49,575 --> 01:01:52,709
and, and some, uh,
items that I sent her.
1164
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:56,408
Uh, a mail began to come...
1165
01:01:56,451 --> 01:01:59,019
[stutters] sympathetic mail
1166
01:01:59,063 --> 01:02:02,153
and maybe a little donation
towards Marina.
1167
01:02:02,196 --> 01:02:04,503
Then I would put
those things together
1168
01:02:04,546 --> 01:02:09,726
and the Irving Police had
a squad car out in front
of my house.
1169
01:02:10,335 --> 01:02:12,554
And so, I'd take it out
to them and say,
1170
01:02:12,598 --> 01:02:13,991
"Could you get this to Marina?"
1171
01:02:14,034 --> 01:02:15,732
And they did, I guess.
1172
01:02:16,036 --> 01:02:18,169
And one day, it included a,
1173
01:02:18,212 --> 01:02:21,999
a book that she had been
reading to me from in Russian.
1174
01:02:22,042 --> 01:02:24,305
And, uh,
I thought she might want it.
1175
01:02:24,349 --> 01:02:28,614
And I-- it was a housekeeping
advice and information.
1176
01:02:28,919 --> 01:02:30,790
A couple of days later,
1177
01:02:30,834 --> 01:02:32,618
two men came out
from Secret Service
1178
01:02:32,661 --> 01:02:35,316
and one of them was
a Russian speaking person.
1179
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:39,016
He was the one
that interviewed me.
1180
01:02:39,059 --> 01:02:41,801
He said, "Mrs.--"
he showed me this note.
1181
01:02:41,845 --> 01:02:44,151
He said,
"Have you ever seen this note?"
1182
01:02:44,195 --> 01:02:45,892
"No, I haven't seen it."
1183
01:02:45,936 --> 01:02:47,415
"Do you recognize
the handwriting?"
1184
01:02:47,459 --> 01:02:49,200
No, didn't recognize
the handwriting.
1185
01:02:49,243 --> 01:02:51,637
"Mrs. Paine,
you sent this note to Marina."
1186
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,248
And I said,
"No, I don't think so."
1187
01:02:54,727 --> 01:02:56,642
Um, and we went back and forth.
1188
01:02:56,685 --> 01:02:59,732
This was the first
and thankfully the only time
1189
01:02:59,776 --> 01:03:03,605
somebody accused me of being...
nefarious.
1190
01:03:04,128 --> 01:03:06,043
And he said,
"Well, it was in a book."
1191
01:03:06,086 --> 01:03:07,784
I said, "Oh, I sent a book,
1192
01:03:09,437 --> 01:03:11,526
but I didn't realize
this note had been in it."
1193
01:03:11,570 --> 01:03:16,009
And what I've learned
from news accounts
1194
01:03:16,053 --> 01:03:18,795
and from testimonies later
was that this was a note
1195
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,754
that Oswald had written
for Marina
1196
01:03:22,102 --> 01:03:27,455
at the time in, uh, April 1963,
1197
01:03:27,499 --> 01:03:31,242
that he took his rifle and tried
to kill General Edwin A. Walker.
1198
01:03:32,939 --> 01:03:35,333
And it--
it was very incriminating.
1199
01:03:35,376 --> 01:03:39,467
"If I'm taken,
this is where the jail is,
1200
01:03:39,511 --> 01:03:42,993
don't keep my clothes,
but you should keep my papers."
1201
01:03:44,037 --> 01:03:46,823
It was very telling to me
1202
01:03:46,866 --> 01:03:49,390
that this was
authentically written
1203
01:03:49,434 --> 01:03:51,828
by Oswald to give to Marina.
1204
01:03:52,785 --> 01:03:54,569
[Brendan]
After Oswald was killed,
1205
01:03:56,702 --> 01:03:57,790
Marina was living
under the protection
of the Secret Service.
1206
01:03:58,530 --> 01:04:00,532
The relationship
was not the same.
1207
01:04:00,924 --> 01:04:04,144
Um, she was very embarrassed
1208
01:04:05,276 --> 01:04:07,017
that this had happened to me.
1209
01:04:07,844 --> 01:04:09,149
And, you know,
1210
01:04:09,671 --> 01:04:10,542
um,
1211
01:04:12,936 --> 01:04:17,766
and it-- this has been
such a terrible event
in both our lives
1212
01:04:18,071 --> 01:04:21,596
that it loomed
when we've met together.
1213
01:04:21,988 --> 01:04:24,077
There it was, so huge.
1214
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:27,689
We--
we shared such a terrible grief.
1215
01:04:32,303 --> 01:04:34,348
[suspenseful music]
1216
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,917
[Brendan]
Everything was pointing
to Oswald as the killer.
1217
01:04:38,396 --> 01:04:41,268
What clues were there
that he was the lone gunman?
1218
01:04:41,965 --> 01:04:44,706
Abraham Zapruder was
an amateur film buff
1219
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:46,839
who happened to be
filming the motorcade.
1220
01:04:47,492 --> 01:04:49,494
This film became
a key piece of evidence
1221
01:04:49,537 --> 01:04:51,670
for all of the investigations
to follow.
1222
01:04:53,193 --> 01:04:54,891
[Howard]
Four or five members
of the staff,
1223
01:04:54,934 --> 01:04:57,850
supplemented by FBI
and Secret Service Agents,
1224
01:04:57,894 --> 01:05:00,374
sat down with the Zapruder film
repeatedly
1225
01:05:00,418 --> 01:05:04,857
and tried to analyze exactly,
uh, which bullets had hit whom,
1226
01:05:05,205 --> 01:05:07,207
uh, in the vehicle
and in what order.
1227
01:05:07,991 --> 01:05:10,863
Eventually, the consensus
of the group was that,
1228
01:05:10,907 --> 01:05:13,431
making rough judgements
as to when the President
1229
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:18,044
first began to exhibit signs
that he had been wounded,
1230
01:05:19,654 --> 01:05:25,573
uh, and examining Connally's
first evidence of being wounded,
1231
01:05:25,965 --> 01:05:28,315
uh, that it is unlikely
1232
01:05:29,099 --> 01:05:31,405
that there was time
within that interval
1233
01:05:31,449 --> 01:05:34,191
for a separate shot to be fired
1234
01:05:34,931 --> 01:05:36,802
by Oswald from the same weapon.
1235
01:05:37,759 --> 01:05:42,329
And that produced early on
a hypothesis that, uh,
1236
01:05:42,677 --> 01:05:47,508
a single bullet, uh, had, uh,
wounded both the President
in his back
1237
01:05:47,552 --> 01:05:49,293
and exiting from his throat
1238
01:05:49,336 --> 01:05:52,644
and then, uh, entering, uh,
Connally's, uh, body
1239
01:05:52,687 --> 01:05:55,473
to create his injuries
in his back,
1240
01:05:55,516 --> 01:05:57,127
his wrist, and his thigh.
1241
01:05:58,258 --> 01:06:02,349
So, from that examination
and debate, uh...
1242
01:06:02,741 --> 01:06:05,091
[stuttering] emerged
a growing conviction
1243
01:06:05,135 --> 01:06:10,009
that the FBI conclusion in both
the first and secondary reports
1244
01:06:10,531 --> 01:06:12,969
uh, as to the wounds
1245
01:06:13,012 --> 01:06:14,971
and the impact
of the bullets was incorrect,
1246
01:06:15,406 --> 01:06:18,975
uh, and it led eventually
to a reenactment
1247
01:06:19,366 --> 01:06:24,719
o-- of the, uh, motorcade
and, and the assassination,
1248
01:06:24,763 --> 01:06:27,418
uh, that the staff recommended
1249
01:06:27,809 --> 01:06:31,335
and--
to Rankin and it was opposed
1250
01:06:31,378 --> 01:06:34,033
by both the FBI
and the Secret Service.
1251
01:06:34,642 --> 01:06:37,384
And so,
what one did during the, uh,
1252
01:06:37,428 --> 01:06:40,170
the reenactment was
to line up, uh,
1253
01:06:40,735 --> 01:06:43,390
agents who pretended
to be sitting
1254
01:06:43,434 --> 01:06:45,827
in the identical position
as the President,
1255
01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:48,395
with the Governor Connally
sitting in a jump seat
1256
01:06:48,439 --> 01:06:50,919
below and slightly
to the left of the President.
1257
01:06:51,268 --> 01:06:53,574
And from Oswald's perspective,
1258
01:06:53,618 --> 01:06:55,794
uh, there was no way
for the bullet
1259
01:06:55,837 --> 01:06:58,579
to go after exiting
from the President's neck
1260
01:06:58,623 --> 01:07:00,973
other than into Connolly.
1261
01:07:01,017 --> 01:07:04,063
If it had not hit Connally,
then-- there is no evidence
1262
01:07:04,107 --> 01:07:06,413
that it hit
any other part of the car.
1263
01:07:07,066 --> 01:07:08,763
That was more or less verified
1264
01:07:08,807 --> 01:07:10,678
because, you know,
the answer is,
1265
01:07:10,722 --> 01:07:12,419
to the single bullet theory is,
1266
01:07:12,463 --> 01:07:14,378
well, how else can you explain
1267
01:07:14,421 --> 01:07:16,945
the bullet that exited
from the President's throat?
1268
01:07:16,989 --> 01:07:21,602
An-- and the fact is
that there is no logical answer
1269
01:07:21,646 --> 01:07:24,866
and that the early description
of, of the single bullet
1270
01:07:24,910 --> 01:07:27,391
wounding both people
being a magic bullet
1271
01:07:27,782 --> 01:07:30,655
is, in fact, quite--
in the contrary point is true,
1272
01:07:30,698 --> 01:07:34,224
that that bullet, uh,
didn't change its mind
where it was going.
1273
01:07:34,528 --> 01:07:36,139
Uh, it exited
from the President's throat
1274
01:07:36,182 --> 01:07:38,358
on a, on a downward trajectory
1275
01:07:38,402 --> 01:07:40,404
a-- and wounded
Governor Connally.
1276
01:07:41,448 --> 01:07:45,626
Governor Connally insisted
then and until his death
1277
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:48,107
that he had not been hit
by the same bullet
1278
01:07:48,151 --> 01:07:49,065
that hit the President.
1279
01:07:49,761 --> 01:07:51,197
Uh, as I have said,
1280
01:07:51,241 --> 01:07:52,851
he was the Governor of Texas,
1281
01:07:52,894 --> 01:07:54,287
he wanted his own bullet.
1282
01:07:55,593 --> 01:07:58,596
The conspiracy theorists claim
that the second bullet
1283
01:07:59,162 --> 01:08:01,773
was the magic bullet,
but there was no magic bullet.
1284
01:08:01,816 --> 01:08:05,820
That's just a myth, an invention
of the conspiracy theorists.
1285
01:08:06,604 --> 01:08:08,562
What they do in their sketches,
1286
01:08:09,476 --> 01:08:11,609
they place Governor Connally
1287
01:08:11,652 --> 01:08:15,178
directly in front
of President Kennedy
1288
01:08:15,221 --> 01:08:17,832
in the presidential limousine,
which he was not.
1289
01:08:18,964 --> 01:08:22,141
And then they argue
that a shot fired
1290
01:08:23,011 --> 01:08:27,407
from right to left on a downward
trajectory
1291
01:08:28,060 --> 01:08:29,322
towards the President
1292
01:08:30,976 --> 01:08:34,719
and passing on a straight line
through the president's body.
1293
01:08:34,762 --> 01:08:38,070
Once it exited the front
of the president's body,
1294
01:08:38,114 --> 01:08:42,074
to hit Connally, they say,
it would've had to make
a right turn in midair
1295
01:08:42,118 --> 01:08:43,989
and then make
a left turn in midair.
1296
01:08:44,511 --> 01:08:47,166
Well, of course, if you start
out with an erroneous premise,
1297
01:08:47,210 --> 01:08:49,212
everything that follows
makes a heck of a lot of sense.
1298
01:08:49,255 --> 01:08:50,778
The only problem is
that it's wrong.
1299
01:08:51,518 --> 01:08:53,868
Uh, the reality is that Connally
1300
01:08:53,912 --> 01:08:56,175
was not seated directly
in front of the president.
1301
01:08:56,219 --> 01:08:57,959
He was seated in a jump seat
1302
01:08:58,003 --> 01:09:00,745
to the President's,
uh, left front.
1303
01:09:01,441 --> 01:09:04,227
So the orientation
of Connally's body
1304
01:09:04,270 --> 01:09:06,490
vis-à-vis Kennedy's was such
1305
01:09:07,143 --> 01:09:10,624
that a bullet
passing on a straight line
through the president's body
1306
01:09:11,234 --> 01:09:13,192
would've had
to go on and hit Connally
1307
01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:15,368
for the simple reason
it had nowhere else to go.
1308
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:18,937
[Brendan]
The House Select Committee
on Assassinations also looked
1309
01:09:18,980 --> 01:09:21,287
into this during
their investigation
1310
01:09:21,331 --> 01:09:22,984
in the mid-1970s.
1311
01:09:23,942 --> 01:09:26,379
So, the question is,
what's the nature of the wound
1312
01:09:26,423 --> 01:09:28,207
in th-- in John Connally's back?
1313
01:09:29,121 --> 01:09:32,777
And I can testify to this.
1314
01:09:32,820 --> 01:09:35,345
I asked John Connally
in my office,
1315
01:09:35,823 --> 01:09:37,216
who's standing there
with his wife,
1316
01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:38,652
"Would you take your shirt off?"
1317
01:09:39,218 --> 01:09:41,742
So, I got him
to take his shirt off
1318
01:09:42,090 --> 01:09:43,701
and he still has the wound,
1319
01:09:43,744 --> 01:09:48,140
not anymore, and the wound
is not an entry wound
1320
01:09:48,184 --> 01:09:50,186
in a sense
that the bullet is coming
1321
01:09:50,577 --> 01:09:52,362
with not having hit
anything else.
1322
01:09:52,884 --> 01:09:54,625
When a bullet hits something,
1323
01:09:54,668 --> 01:09:56,801
it-- the-- it's called tumbling.
1324
01:09:57,497 --> 01:09:59,804
And the bullet
that hit Kennedy's, I mean,
1325
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:02,415
John Connally's back had tumbled
1326
01:10:02,459 --> 01:10:04,330
and actually came in
to hit it this way.
1327
01:10:05,331 --> 01:10:09,379
And so the wound
in his back is oval,
1328
01:10:10,031 --> 01:10:12,947
indicating that the bullet that
hit him was not coming straight,
1329
01:10:14,384 --> 01:10:16,603
which is an indication
that it hit something else.
1330
01:10:17,169 --> 01:10:19,084
So, our conclusion,
unequivocally,
1331
01:10:19,954 --> 01:10:21,260
two shots from behind,
1332
01:10:22,218 --> 01:10:23,828
uh, Depository.
1333
01:10:24,872 --> 01:10:28,920
And one shot went
through President Kennedy
1334
01:10:28,963 --> 01:10:30,313
and struck Governor Connally?
1335
01:10:30,661 --> 01:10:33,838
Correct. And so that
the Warren Commission's posit
1336
01:10:33,881 --> 01:10:36,623
of a single bullet theory
was correct.
1337
01:10:37,581 --> 01:10:39,191
-Now...
-Now we proved it.
1338
01:10:39,931 --> 01:10:42,107
We didn't hypothesize it,
we proved it.
1339
01:10:44,065 --> 01:10:46,677
Now, there's another reason
why the conspiracy theorists
1340
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,767
alleged that this was
a magic bullet.
1341
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:53,292
They claimed that
when it was recovered,
1342
01:10:53,771 --> 01:10:56,861
it was in pristine condition.
1343
01:10:56,904 --> 01:10:59,167
And they said, "How could that
be? It went through two bodies,
1344
01:10:59,211 --> 01:11:00,821
Connally's body
and the President's.
1345
01:11:00,865 --> 01:11:02,649
It couldn't be
in pristine condition."
1346
01:11:03,259 --> 01:11:07,219
Uh, well, the point is it was
not in pristine condition.
1347
01:11:07,263 --> 01:11:09,047
The base of the bullet,
1348
01:11:09,090 --> 01:11:12,180
which the conspiracy theorists
never show in their books,
1349
01:11:12,224 --> 01:11:14,182
was badly damaged,
1350
01:11:14,226 --> 01:11:18,796
2.4 grains lost in weight,
1351
01:11:19,318 --> 01:11:21,102
so it was not a pristine bullet.
1352
01:11:22,147 --> 01:11:28,066
Secondly, this bullet was a,
uh, fully metal jacketed,
1353
01:11:28,936 --> 01:11:32,418
military-type bullet designed
to cause a lot of damage
1354
01:11:32,462 --> 01:11:35,682
to anything it hits
without causing
too much damage to itself.
1355
01:11:35,726 --> 01:11:39,077
Uh, firearms experts for the,
uh, Warren Commission
1356
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,341
and the House Select Committee
both agree that that bullet
1357
01:11:42,385 --> 01:11:44,125
could have caused
all the damage it did
1358
01:11:44,169 --> 01:11:46,171
without becoming
more deformed itself.
1359
01:11:46,911 --> 01:11:48,434
And the thing here,
1360
01:11:48,478 --> 01:11:50,480
something-- interesting
thing here and the irony
1361
01:11:50,958 --> 01:11:53,439
is that those conspiracy
theorists have wrapped
1362
01:11:53,483 --> 01:11:56,137
that magic bullet tag
around the neck
1363
01:11:56,181 --> 01:11:57,400
of the Warren Commission
1364
01:11:58,052 --> 01:12:00,925
for 50 years, successfully,
I might add.
1365
01:12:01,578 --> 01:12:06,234
It turns out it was only they
who had a magic bullet.
1366
01:12:06,974 --> 01:12:10,326
[Brendan]
Another popular theory
that has swirled continuously
1367
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:12,458
is the idea
that President Kennedy
1368
01:12:12,502 --> 01:12:15,418
was in fact struck by a bullet
fired from in front,
1369
01:12:15,896 --> 01:12:17,550
from the so called Grassy Knoll.
1370
01:12:18,072 --> 01:12:20,684
This was fueled, in part,
when the Zapruder film
1371
01:12:20,727 --> 01:12:22,468
was finally shown to the public.
1372
01:12:23,034 --> 01:12:25,515
[Vincent]
The first time
the American people saw this
1373
01:12:25,558 --> 01:12:27,865
was on the evening
of March 6th, 1975,
1374
01:12:27,908 --> 01:12:30,955
network TV, ABC.
1375
01:12:30,998 --> 01:12:33,827
Millions of Americans
seeing the President's head
1376
01:12:34,393 --> 01:12:37,135
snapped to the rear concluded
and understandably saw
1377
01:12:37,178 --> 01:12:38,484
on the simple law of physics,
1378
01:12:38,528 --> 01:12:40,486
the shot must have
come from the,
1379
01:12:41,008 --> 01:12:44,447
uh, right front
where the Grassy Knoll was,
1380
01:12:44,490 --> 01:12:47,232
not the right rear
where Oswald was
1381
01:12:47,624 --> 01:12:49,234
in the Book Depository building.
1382
01:12:51,105 --> 01:12:53,586
We have photographs
of Kennedy's brain
1383
01:12:53,630 --> 01:12:56,154
and the brain has
two hemispheres.
1384
01:12:56,502 --> 01:12:59,200
This is the hemisphere
that faced the Grassy Knoll.
1385
01:12:59,244 --> 01:13:01,638
This is the hemisphere
that faced the plaza.
1386
01:13:03,117 --> 01:13:06,077
This hemisphere was destroyed
1387
01:13:06,469 --> 01:13:08,471
by the bullet that came
in the back of his head
1388
01:13:08,514 --> 01:13:10,342
and exited
the front of his head.
1389
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:11,822
Just totally destroyed.
1390
01:13:12,475 --> 01:13:14,172
This hemisphere is fine.
1391
01:13:14,738 --> 01:13:17,393
If the bullet had shot him
from this direction,
1392
01:13:18,394 --> 01:13:20,613
it would've had
to have dissipated
1393
01:13:21,309 --> 01:13:23,311
before it got
halfway across his brain.
1394
01:13:23,877 --> 01:13:25,923
So there's no evidence
in his brain
1395
01:13:26,402 --> 01:13:30,014
that the shot
from the Grassy Knoll hit him.
1396
01:13:31,145 --> 01:13:33,321
Now, the people say, "Well,
1397
01:13:33,365 --> 01:13:37,413
what about the evidence
of the head apparently
snapping back like this?
1398
01:13:37,761 --> 01:13:39,110
Isn't that the head
1399
01:13:39,545 --> 01:13:41,678
being snapped back
by a bullet hitting?"
1400
01:13:42,156 --> 01:13:44,289
And my answer is no,
1401
01:13:45,246 --> 01:13:47,379
because I've looked
at the President's brain
1402
01:13:47,423 --> 01:13:49,337
and I've looked
at the President's skull
1403
01:13:49,729 --> 01:13:52,210
and there's
no evidence from a bullet
from the front right.
1404
01:13:52,732 --> 01:13:56,475
"Well, professor,
what about the snap back?
1405
01:13:56,519 --> 01:13:58,259
Do you have
an explanation for that?"
1406
01:13:58,782 --> 01:14:01,959
Uh, when Kennedy's brain
was hit,
1407
01:14:02,873 --> 01:14:05,963
it released electrical stimulus
1408
01:14:06,529 --> 01:14:09,575
to all of his muscles
simultaneously.
1409
01:14:10,228 --> 01:14:14,362
And the strongest muscle
in his body would be
his back muscle.
1410
01:14:15,059 --> 01:14:17,757
And when all the muscles
tighten up,
1411
01:14:18,366 --> 01:14:20,020
which one wins?
1412
01:14:20,064 --> 01:14:23,067
The back muscle,
and that's what snaps him back.
1413
01:14:23,763 --> 01:14:25,983
Whatever the reason
his head snapped back,
1414
01:14:26,026 --> 01:14:27,680
was he shot
from the front right?
1415
01:14:27,724 --> 01:14:29,247
And the answer to that is no.
1416
01:14:31,031 --> 01:14:32,468
I know what his skull
looks like,
1417
01:14:32,511 --> 01:14:34,078
I know what his brain
looks like.
1418
01:14:34,121 --> 01:14:36,167
No evidence of shot
from the front right.
1419
01:14:36,210 --> 01:14:37,864
So if one occurred,
it didn't hit him.
1420
01:14:43,391 --> 01:14:47,134
[Brendan] My own research took me to look at the Zapruder film itself.
1421
01:14:47,526 --> 01:14:49,180
I wanted to see
what I could learn
1422
01:14:49,223 --> 01:14:51,661
from closely watching
some of the key frames.
1423
01:14:52,096 --> 01:14:54,533
So, can we play the,
uh, film through?
1424
01:14:54,577 --> 01:14:57,841
We see the President's motorcade
coming down the street
1425
01:14:58,668 --> 01:15:01,061
with the President,
1426
01:15:01,105 --> 01:15:02,236
the limousine,
1427
01:15:02,889 --> 01:15:04,325
the crowd cheering.
1428
01:15:06,153 --> 01:15:09,200
The President holds
his hands to his neck,
and you see the shot,
1429
01:15:09,243 --> 01:15:12,116
see the First Lady going
on the back of the limousine,
1430
01:15:13,944 --> 01:15:15,598
and then, out of sight.
1431
01:15:16,468 --> 01:15:19,819
So why don't we, if we could,
let's go to the fatal shot,
1432
01:15:19,863 --> 01:15:22,605
which is, I think,
right before the fatal shot,
1433
01:15:23,170 --> 01:15:26,130
-frame 312 first. Alright.
-[Chris] Ok, here's 312.
1434
01:15:26,173 --> 01:15:31,962
So at 312, we have
the President holding
his hands on his neck,
1435
01:15:33,311 --> 01:15:36,401
looking at the First Lady
and the First Lady is
reaching over,
1436
01:15:36,444 --> 01:15:39,012
looking at him as his shoulders
are turned towards her.
1437
01:15:40,448 --> 01:15:42,973
And then,
if we can go to the next frame
1438
01:15:43,016 --> 01:15:47,107
which is frame 313, which is
the fatal shot, if you will.
1439
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,632
And then, just so you know,
1440
01:15:49,675 --> 01:15:52,373
if you back it up
again to 312...
1441
01:15:53,157 --> 01:15:56,073
-Here is 312.
-...and then, before you get
to 312, 313,
1442
01:15:56,116 --> 01:15:57,727
if you look at the line,
1443
01:15:57,770 --> 01:16:02,775
if you draw a line
on Jackie's head or hat
1444
01:16:03,123 --> 01:16:05,212
and you see
the back of his head,
1445
01:16:05,256 --> 01:16:10,783
it's all intact, and we see
the frame right there,
1446
01:16:10,827 --> 01:16:15,396
so that clearly there is nothing
missing between 312 and 313.
1447
01:16:16,441 --> 01:16:19,183
And then, the shot.
1448
01:16:20,663 --> 01:16:23,970
We see the President's head
moving forward,
1449
01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:28,409
we see the President's back
moving forward,
1450
01:16:29,062 --> 01:16:31,935
and we see the brain matter,
1451
01:16:31,978 --> 01:16:35,852
all moving forward
to the front of the car.
1452
01:16:37,201 --> 01:16:39,072
Now, if we can...
1453
01:16:40,726 --> 01:16:44,034
move forward from frame 313
1454
01:16:44,991 --> 01:16:47,211
to frame 318,
1455
01:16:48,168 --> 01:16:51,215
you see the President's body
jerking backward
1456
01:16:51,258 --> 01:16:53,304
from a neuromuscular reaction
1457
01:16:53,696 --> 01:16:56,133
as a result
of the right hemisphere
1458
01:16:56,655 --> 01:17:00,616
of the President's brain
being blown out from the shot.
1459
01:17:01,965 --> 01:17:04,315
Clearly, there is no evidence
1460
01:17:04,837 --> 01:17:07,971
of anything striking
the President from the front.
1461
01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:11,496
[suspenseful music]
1462
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,456
[Brendan]
Further evidence
could have been offered
1463
01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,894
in the autopsy photographs
and X-rays.
1464
01:17:18,459 --> 01:17:20,418
But during the Commission's investigation,
1465
01:17:21,071 --> 01:17:24,030
Chief Justice Warren was
so horrified by these images
1466
01:17:24,378 --> 01:17:27,033
that he refused to allow
this material to be released
1467
01:17:27,077 --> 01:17:30,646
to the Commission,
it's staff and to the public.
1468
01:17:31,777 --> 01:17:33,736
The Chief Justice testifi--
testified
1469
01:17:33,779 --> 01:17:36,390
and has written that he did
in fact see the materials,
1470
01:17:36,434 --> 01:17:40,351
which were delivered
by custodian to his
Supreme Court chambers,
1471
01:17:40,394 --> 01:17:41,700
and he looked at the pictures,
1472
01:17:43,397 --> 01:17:46,226
uh, found them horrific
and gave them back
to the custodian.
1473
01:17:47,053 --> 01:17:51,449
And he felt that he could not
let the documents be seen
by a witness
1474
01:17:51,492 --> 01:17:55,061
without necessarily
making them public.
1475
01:17:55,105 --> 01:17:57,629
And that's the mistake
that I feel was made,
1476
01:17:58,195 --> 01:18:01,677
because the controversy
about the single bullet
conclusion,
1477
01:18:02,112 --> 01:18:06,377
uh, was also wide spread
and it had direct relationship
1478
01:18:06,420 --> 01:18:08,814
to the autopsy materials,
which were absent.
1479
01:18:09,293 --> 01:18:13,297
Uh, the combination
of the lack of those materials
and the inherent, uh,
1480
01:18:13,776 --> 01:18:19,520
uh, the questions raised
by the single bullet theory,
1481
01:18:19,564 --> 01:18:23,699
uh, fostered a greater
and stronger, uh, um,
1482
01:18:24,612 --> 01:18:26,484
body of criticism
to the Commission report
1483
01:18:26,527 --> 01:18:28,355
that might otherwise
have developed.
1484
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:30,096
Uh, eventually,
when those materials
1485
01:18:30,140 --> 01:18:31,707
were made available
over the years,
1486
01:18:31,750 --> 01:18:34,100
21 pathologists
had looked at the materials
1487
01:18:34,144 --> 01:18:36,537
supporting
the single bullet finding
1488
01:18:36,581 --> 01:18:39,018
and 20 out of 21 agreed
with that finding.
1489
01:18:39,671 --> 01:18:42,282
[Brendan]
The House Select Committee
spent significant resources
1490
01:18:42,326 --> 01:18:44,850
on modern technology
for their analysis,
1491
01:18:45,198 --> 01:18:49,507
which they used to re-examine
all of the evidence
of the assassination,
1492
01:18:49,550 --> 01:18:52,771
including forensic pathologists to look at the autopsy.
1493
01:18:53,598 --> 01:18:55,208
[Robert]
They took all of the evidence.
1494
01:18:55,731 --> 01:18:57,994
They took
the autopsy photographs.
1495
01:18:58,037 --> 01:18:59,473
The doctors looked at them
1496
01:19:00,213 --> 01:19:01,301
and they determined,
1497
01:19:01,824 --> 01:19:04,522
from the bullet holes
in the President,
1498
01:19:04,914 --> 01:19:09,527
that both shots came
from behind him and up.
1499
01:19:10,354 --> 01:19:12,443
And they did that based on...
[softly sighs]
1500
01:19:12,922 --> 01:19:14,488
...a principle called,
1501
01:19:15,185 --> 01:19:18,623
um, abrasion collars.
1502
01:19:18,971 --> 01:19:21,887
If a bullet goes down
through my skin like this,
1503
01:19:22,670 --> 01:19:24,847
it will burn my skin
in a circle.
1504
01:19:25,630 --> 01:19:27,458
And if the bullet went
straight in,
1505
01:19:27,893 --> 01:19:29,590
it burns a circle straight.
1506
01:19:30,374 --> 01:19:32,289
The bullet comes in
from the side,
1507
01:19:32,811 --> 01:19:37,076
it burns the ci--
the circle with an oblong,
1508
01:19:38,512 --> 01:19:41,515
so, you can determine direction
1509
01:19:42,865 --> 01:19:46,869
of bullets by looking
at the hole that goes in
1510
01:19:46,912 --> 01:19:49,828
and the same process occurs
on the other side, going out.
1511
01:19:51,482 --> 01:19:56,313
This is an anatomically
correct drawing
1512
01:19:56,661 --> 01:19:58,968
of the President
as if he was standing up.
1513
01:19:59,011 --> 01:20:02,101
And we have one
entry wound here in the back,
1514
01:20:02,710 --> 01:20:04,712
and one entry wound here.
1515
01:20:05,191 --> 01:20:07,803
This is an abrasion
collar with an entry wound
1516
01:20:08,455 --> 01:20:12,068
and there's an exit wound
on Kennedy's neck about here.
1517
01:20:13,156 --> 01:20:15,288
And-- remember,
this is anatomically correct,
1518
01:20:15,332 --> 01:20:18,552
the President was
in a different position
when the bullets hit him,
1519
01:20:18,901 --> 01:20:20,903
and that's the one
that hit him in the head.
1520
01:20:21,947 --> 01:20:25,603
This is an anatomically
correct...
1521
01:20:26,909 --> 01:20:29,781
drawing from the Zapruder film.
1522
01:20:31,609 --> 01:20:35,308
And a--
it's a combination of that
1523
01:20:35,874 --> 01:20:38,529
and the photographs
of the skull.
1524
01:20:40,139 --> 01:20:42,185
You have an entry wound here,
1525
01:20:43,316 --> 01:20:45,144
and an exit wound here.
1526
01:20:45,188 --> 01:20:46,842
And in fact, you could see
1527
01:20:47,364 --> 01:20:49,279
the beveling on this exit wound,
1528
01:20:49,845 --> 01:20:51,716
it's a small hole on the inside
1529
01:20:51,759 --> 01:20:53,413
and a large hole on the outside.
1530
01:20:54,023 --> 01:20:56,416
[Brendan]
So the analysis
of these pieces of evidence
1531
01:20:56,460 --> 01:20:58,766
by the Warren Commission
and later confirmed
1532
01:20:58,810 --> 01:21:00,986
by the House Select Committee
concluded that,
1533
01:21:01,421 --> 01:21:03,815
of the three shots
fired by Oswald,
1534
01:21:04,250 --> 01:21:07,427
only two hit the President
and Governor Connally.
1535
01:21:07,471 --> 01:21:11,170
However, at the end
of the House Committee's
reexamination,
1536
01:21:11,823 --> 01:21:13,999
additional acoustic evidence
came to light
1537
01:21:14,043 --> 01:21:16,175
of a possible fourth gunshot,
1538
01:21:16,654 --> 01:21:19,222
which would indicate that there was a second shooter.
1539
01:21:20,049 --> 01:21:24,096
What was revealed was
that one of the motorcycle
police officers
1540
01:21:24,140 --> 01:21:27,186
had his microphone
stuck in the transmit mode
1541
01:21:27,230 --> 01:21:30,581
and the Dallas Police Dictabelt recording of that microphone
1542
01:21:30,624 --> 01:21:33,758
seemed to contain a sound wave
of an additional shot.
1543
01:21:34,237 --> 01:21:36,456
We made an effort to find, uh,
1544
01:21:36,979 --> 01:21:39,851
the top acoustics people
in the country.
1545
01:21:39,895 --> 01:21:42,027
We said,
"Would you look at the tape
1546
01:21:42,506 --> 01:21:43,942
and see what you can determine?"
1547
01:21:43,986 --> 01:21:45,988
And they did that,
and they came back
1548
01:21:46,031 --> 01:21:47,206
and they said, "Uh,
1549
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:50,818
we have some inconvenient news."
[chuckles]
1550
01:21:52,168 --> 01:21:55,345
"There were indeed
three shots in the Plaza
1551
01:21:55,693 --> 01:21:59,653
that probably came
from the Depository.
1552
01:22:00,263 --> 01:22:02,743
But there's evidence on the tape
1553
01:22:03,309 --> 01:22:08,706
of a shot right before
Oswald's third shot,
1554
01:22:08,749 --> 01:22:10,621
and it's from the Grassy Knoll."
1555
01:22:11,491 --> 01:22:13,885
So we asked them,
"How confident are you
1556
01:22:14,712 --> 01:22:16,583
that there was a shot
from the Grassy Knoll?"
1557
01:22:17,845 --> 01:22:19,935
And they said,
"For that one, 50/50."
1558
01:22:20,674 --> 01:22:22,372
They said for the other three,
1559
01:22:22,415 --> 01:22:24,635
they were up in the 80s and 90s.
1560
01:22:25,679 --> 01:22:27,464
Uh, and,
1561
01:22:28,639 --> 01:22:31,468
"You mean,
the fact of conspiracy
in the assassination
1562
01:22:31,511 --> 01:22:32,643
is a flip of the coin?"
1563
01:22:33,774 --> 01:22:35,602
And he said, "Basically, yes."
1564
01:22:36,125 --> 01:22:40,781
And then we had two experts
who looked at what,
1565
01:22:41,608 --> 01:22:43,915
uh, Bolt,
Beranek and Newman did.
1566
01:22:43,959 --> 01:22:45,699
And then we tried
to figure out is,
1567
01:22:45,743 --> 01:22:47,788
was there any way to extend this
1568
01:22:48,528 --> 01:22:53,011
and increase
our degree of confidence
1569
01:22:53,055 --> 01:22:54,665
for the shot
from the Grassy Knoll?
1570
01:22:54,708 --> 01:22:55,971
And they did it.
1571
01:22:56,406 --> 01:22:59,975
And they got up--
the confidence up to about 95%
1572
01:23:00,540 --> 01:23:02,586
that there was a shot
from the Grassy Knoll.
1573
01:23:03,804 --> 01:23:05,719
[Brendan]
This conclusion was
controversial
1574
01:23:05,763 --> 01:23:08,940
and prompted dissents
by Committee Members.
1575
01:23:10,724 --> 01:23:13,162
Their conclusions hinged
on determining
1576
01:23:13,205 --> 01:23:15,816
which motorcycle had
the stuck microphone.
1577
01:23:16,339 --> 01:23:19,124
Using photos and film
of the motorcade,
1578
01:23:19,559 --> 01:23:23,085
they determined that it had to belong to motorcycle officer
1579
01:23:23,128 --> 01:23:25,739
H. B. McLain
for their theory to work.
1580
01:23:26,392 --> 01:23:29,482
McLain testified about
his actions in the motorcade
1581
01:23:29,526 --> 01:23:31,354
before the House
Select Committee
1582
01:23:31,397 --> 01:23:33,008
and later recalled
his experiences
1583
01:23:33,051 --> 01:23:34,618
in a 2003 interview.
1584
01:23:34,966 --> 01:23:36,663
I asked them if I could
listen to the tape.
1585
01:23:37,664 --> 01:23:39,405
"Well, you don't need
to listen to that."
1586
01:23:41,059 --> 01:23:43,670
So, I just said
everything was possible.
1587
01:23:46,151 --> 01:23:48,371
And when I got back to town,
1588
01:23:49,241 --> 01:23:51,069
I went back to work
the next day,
1589
01:23:52,636 --> 01:23:55,030
J. C. Bowles called me
over to his office.
1590
01:23:55,073 --> 01:23:59,034
He said "Mac,
have you heard them,
have you heard those tapes
1591
01:24:00,078 --> 01:24:02,776
before you went up there?"
I said, "No, Sir.
1592
01:24:03,212 --> 01:24:05,214
And they wouldn't let me
listen to them up there."
1593
01:24:06,867 --> 01:24:09,435
So he sent me in--
1594
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:11,698
took me into one
of the other rooms in there,
1595
01:24:12,221 --> 01:24:15,441
sat me down and said,
"I want you to listen to these."
1596
01:24:17,269 --> 01:24:19,054
So I sat down
and listened to them.
1597
01:24:19,619 --> 01:24:21,317
When I got through,
I came back out
1598
01:24:21,665 --> 01:24:23,406
and said, "No, it wasn't mine.
1599
01:24:24,407 --> 01:24:25,321
Couldn't be."
1600
01:24:26,670 --> 01:24:28,106
Because you can tell
the difference in the sound
1601
01:24:28,150 --> 01:24:32,067
of a three wheeler running
and a solo motorcycle running.
1602
01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:36,941
And it was not mine.
1603
01:24:42,338 --> 01:24:43,817
[upbeat music]
1604
01:24:43,861 --> 01:24:45,341
[Brendan]
Steve Barber,
1605
01:24:45,384 --> 01:24:47,430
a rock drummer from Shelby,
Ohio,
1606
01:24:47,995 --> 01:24:50,085
believed conspiracy theories
1607
01:24:50,607 --> 01:24:53,262
and was excited to learn in 1979
1608
01:24:53,305 --> 01:24:55,220
that the recordings were
going to be published
1609
01:24:55,264 --> 01:24:57,962
in an upcoming issue
of Gallery Magazine.
1610
01:24:59,006 --> 01:25:00,225
I got my copy,
1611
01:25:00,965 --> 01:25:02,532
I put this record on,
1612
01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:06,057
and I'm listening
intently to this thing.
1613
01:25:06,101 --> 01:25:08,364
I mean, just earphones,
1614
01:25:08,407 --> 01:25:09,756
anything I can get my hands on.
1615
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,498
I want to hear
every little sound.
1616
01:25:12,542 --> 01:25:14,979
No gunshots,
you can't hear any gunshots.
1617
01:25:15,762 --> 01:25:17,547
So I'm like,
"Wh-- where are they?"
1618
01:25:19,244 --> 01:25:20,985
And I just, you know, I figure,
1619
01:25:21,028 --> 01:25:22,682
"Well,
they're in there somewhere,
1620
01:25:22,726 --> 01:25:24,641
because there's a lot
of different little sounds."
1621
01:25:25,207 --> 01:25:28,123
[Brendan]
What Barber discovered
was known as crosstalk.
1622
01:25:28,558 --> 01:25:31,474
That occurs when
one transmission
from one channel
1623
01:25:31,517 --> 01:25:32,997
is picked up on another.
1624
01:25:34,694 --> 01:25:35,956
The Dallas Police Department
was using two channels
1625
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:37,175
during this event.
1626
01:25:38,698 --> 01:25:40,178
Channel One was
the regular police channel,
1627
01:25:40,222 --> 01:25:42,267
which recorded
the stuck open microphone.
1628
01:25:42,876 --> 01:25:46,184
Channel Two was reserved
for motorcade communications.
1629
01:25:46,663 --> 01:25:48,360
He was surprised to hear,
1630
01:25:48,404 --> 01:25:51,102
barely audibly
on the Channel One recording,
1631
01:25:51,146 --> 01:25:54,236
the same words
he also heard on Channel Two.
1632
01:25:54,801 --> 01:25:56,368
That was the crosstalk.
1633
01:25:56,412 --> 01:25:58,457
[crackly recordings]
1634
01:25:58,501 --> 01:26:00,546
[muffled chat]
1635
01:26:02,983 --> 01:26:05,682
There's a voice that's buried
1636
01:26:06,204 --> 01:26:10,295
within all that motorcycle noise
and so forth, and I thought,
1637
01:26:11,122 --> 01:26:14,691
"I want to-- I'm going to figure
out what's going on here,
1638
01:26:14,734 --> 01:26:16,954
see if I can figure out
what this guy is saying."
1639
01:26:18,912 --> 01:26:21,654
[Brendan]
The words Barber heard were
Dallas County Sheriff Decker
1640
01:26:21,698 --> 01:26:24,483
ordering his men to,
"Hold everything secure
1641
01:26:24,527 --> 01:26:26,268
until the investigators
get there."
1642
01:26:26,616 --> 01:26:30,315
This transmission on both
recordings provide a timeline
1643
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:33,275
for when the Channel One
recording was made.
1644
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:39,629
So then, when I discovered this
Sheriff Decker transmission,
1645
01:26:40,847 --> 01:26:44,329
it proved that section
of the tape is actually
90 seconds
1646
01:26:44,373 --> 01:26:46,418
after the, the shooting.
1647
01:26:47,376 --> 01:26:49,726
There are no gunshots
on that recording.
1648
01:26:49,769 --> 01:26:53,643
We are right back to square one.
The Warren Commission stands,
1649
01:26:54,252 --> 01:26:57,081
"Three gunshots
from Lee Harvey Oswald,
1650
01:26:57,777 --> 01:26:58,952
nobody else."
1651
01:27:00,737 --> 01:27:03,696
[Brendan]
In 1980, The National Academy of Sciences
1652
01:27:03,740 --> 01:27:05,611
reexamined
the acoustic evidence.
1653
01:27:06,090 --> 01:27:08,092
Barber sent them
his conclusions.
1654
01:27:08,571 --> 01:27:10,486
On May 14th, 1982,
1655
01:27:10,529 --> 01:27:12,488
the National Academy of Sciences
1656
01:27:12,531 --> 01:27:15,186
released their report agreeing
with Barber's assessment.
1657
01:27:16,666 --> 01:27:18,450
In October 2013,
1658
01:27:18,798 --> 01:27:22,411
a new study commissioned
by Professor Larry Sabato
1659
01:27:22,454 --> 01:27:24,282
of the University of Virginia
1660
01:27:24,326 --> 01:27:27,503
and conducted by a private firm, Sonalysts,
1661
01:27:27,546 --> 01:27:30,462
concluded that the motorcycle
with an open microphone
1662
01:27:30,506 --> 01:27:32,899
was traveling
at a high rate speed,
1663
01:27:32,943 --> 01:27:36,686
indicating that it was not
in the presidential motorcade.
1664
01:27:37,861 --> 01:27:40,646
Sadly, once Barber concluded
1665
01:27:40,690 --> 01:27:42,561
that the Warren Commission
was correct,
1666
01:27:43,170 --> 01:27:46,826
his friends in the conspiracy
community began attacking him
1667
01:27:47,305 --> 01:27:49,873
and those attacks
continue to this day.
1668
01:27:51,004 --> 01:27:53,659
This was the only
scientific proof
1669
01:27:53,703 --> 01:27:55,574
of a conspiracy that existed.
1670
01:27:56,575 --> 01:27:57,576
And...
1671
01:27:59,099 --> 01:28:02,494
you know, I came along
and I guess I killed that.
1672
01:28:03,539 --> 01:28:05,584
Searching for the truth,
and I f--
1673
01:28:06,498 --> 01:28:09,327
found something I didn't expect,
and it...
1674
01:28:11,764 --> 01:28:13,418
Here we are, so--
1675
01:28:14,071 --> 01:28:16,726
-50-what, 53 years later?
-[Brendan] Right. Right.
1676
01:28:17,335 --> 01:28:18,380
-Right.
-Man...
1677
01:28:18,858 --> 01:28:20,904
[suspenseful music]
1678
01:28:22,384 --> 01:28:25,561
[Brendan] Could there still have been more people connected to the murder?
1679
01:28:25,604 --> 01:28:27,084
How did Jack Ruby fit in?
1680
01:28:27,519 --> 01:28:29,216
Although both
the Warren Commission
1681
01:28:29,260 --> 01:28:31,436
and the House Select Committee
ruled out Cuba,
1682
01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:34,091
the Soviet Union,
the FBI and the CIA,
1683
01:28:34,657 --> 01:28:39,226
Robert Blakey believes
a conspiracy involving a noted underworld figure was possible.
1684
01:28:39,575 --> 01:28:45,711
Do you think that Oswald was
involved in a mafia/organized
crime conspiracy?
1685
01:28:45,755 --> 01:28:48,366
No.
Not knowingly organized crime.
1686
01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:54,154
My posit, and you have to bring
two things together,
1687
01:28:54,807 --> 01:28:57,506
you've got to bring Oswald
together and Ruby together.
1688
01:28:57,549 --> 01:29:01,118
Well, the general rule
is that you can only conspire
1689
01:29:01,161 --> 01:29:04,339
with other people that you know
or associated with.
1690
01:29:04,991 --> 01:29:07,037
So if you want to find out
if there's a conspiracy,
1691
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,562
what you do is a link analysis
of the individual.
1692
01:29:11,258 --> 01:29:13,783
All the leads
that run out from Oswald
1693
01:29:13,826 --> 01:29:17,090
run to Communist groups
of some kind.
1694
01:29:17,787 --> 01:29:20,180
All the things
that run out from Ruby
1695
01:29:20,833 --> 01:29:23,270
are crime connected.
1696
01:29:23,662 --> 01:29:27,492
So why did Oswald
kill the President?
1697
01:29:29,929 --> 01:29:31,714
If it was part of a conspiracy,
1698
01:29:32,454 --> 01:29:33,498
it was Communist,
1699
01:29:35,152 --> 01:29:38,024
and we've already decided
the Communists had
no stake in that.
1700
01:29:38,590 --> 01:29:42,028
If you take Ruby and say,
"Who are Ruby's connections?
1701
01:29:43,029 --> 01:29:46,511
Uh, who are they connected to?"
1702
01:29:47,599 --> 01:29:49,732
[Brendan]
Blakey believes that
the connections between Ruby
1703
01:29:49,775 --> 01:29:53,431
and Oswald flow through
New Orleans' crime boss,
Carlos Marcello,
1704
01:29:53,779 --> 01:29:56,391
who had a well-publicized grudge against the Kennedys.
1705
01:29:57,043 --> 01:29:59,350
The Kennedys were trying
to deport Marcello.
1706
01:30:00,046 --> 01:30:02,440
Ruby was certainly exposed
to crime figures
1707
01:30:02,484 --> 01:30:03,789
in his business dealings.
1708
01:30:04,660 --> 01:30:06,879
For Oswald, it was less clear.
1709
01:30:07,445 --> 01:30:09,142
When Oswald was 16,
1710
01:30:09,186 --> 01:30:10,927
he served
in the Civil Air Patrol
1711
01:30:10,970 --> 01:30:12,494
under Captain David Ferrie,
1712
01:30:12,929 --> 01:30:15,322
who would, by 1963,
1713
01:30:15,366 --> 01:30:18,282
be an investigator for Carlos
Marcello's legal team.
1714
01:30:18,804 --> 01:30:22,068
Another connection
to Marcello was Oswald's
uncle Dutz Murret,
1715
01:30:22,112 --> 01:30:23,461
a New Orleans bookmaker.
1716
01:30:25,115 --> 01:30:29,424
For me, the critical problem
between anybody in New Orleans
1717
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:34,080
and Oswald in Dallas is that,
1718
01:30:34,733 --> 01:30:37,257
uh, when Oswald left
New Orleans,
1719
01:30:37,736 --> 01:30:41,087
uh, he went to Mexico City.
1720
01:30:41,697 --> 01:30:45,178
He didn't even have
the knowledge himself
1721
01:30:45,222 --> 01:30:46,658
that he was going
to go to Dallas.
1722
01:30:47,093 --> 01:30:48,704
He was hoping to get to Cuba,
1723
01:30:49,661 --> 01:30:52,359
uh, and, uh, he told,
1724
01:30:52,403 --> 01:30:55,928
uh, his wife
and he told Ruth Paine
1725
01:30:55,972 --> 01:31:00,237
that he would go to either
Houston or Philadelphia
looking for a job.
1726
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,153
How does somebody have
communication with Oswald
1727
01:31:04,284 --> 01:31:05,808
between October 4th,
1728
01:31:06,199 --> 01:31:07,940
when he returned
from Mexico City,
1729
01:31:07,984 --> 01:31:10,552
and November 22nd,
when he shot the President?
1730
01:31:10,595 --> 01:31:13,119
Even his wife didn't know
where he was living.
1731
01:31:16,253 --> 01:31:18,473
The FBI didn't know
where he was living.
1732
01:31:18,516 --> 01:31:20,344
-We don't know.
-But-- We don't!
1733
01:31:20,387 --> 01:31:21,824
-We don't know
about the connections...
-But--
1734
01:31:21,867 --> 01:31:23,608
...but what we're
trying to say is,
1735
01:31:23,652 --> 01:31:25,784
if Oswald did it
1736
01:31:26,568 --> 01:31:27,960
and it was conspiratorial,
1737
01:31:28,004 --> 01:31:30,702
what's the nature
of his conspiracy?
1738
01:31:30,746 --> 01:31:33,400
-Well, tell me.
-So what you have is,
1739
01:31:33,923 --> 01:31:38,057
the technical phrase for it is
False Flag Recruitment,
1740
01:31:39,015 --> 01:31:41,757
meaning the anti-Castro Cubans
1741
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,977
pretend to be pro-Castro Cubans,
1742
01:31:45,587 --> 01:31:47,458
and they go to Oswald and say,
1743
01:31:47,763 --> 01:31:50,287
"We want you to kill
the President
1744
01:31:50,330 --> 01:31:53,072
on behalf of Castro."
1745
01:31:53,638 --> 01:31:55,684
Would Oswald take
that assignment?
1746
01:31:55,727 --> 01:31:59,209
I think of this
as a jigsaw puzzle.
1747
01:32:00,427 --> 01:32:02,038
And we're putting pieces in.
1748
01:32:03,256 --> 01:32:04,823
And we know that there were--
1749
01:32:05,694 --> 01:32:08,044
"Oswald killed the president,"
that's a big section
1750
01:32:08,087 --> 01:32:09,524
-of the jigsaw puzzle.
-Right.
1751
01:32:10,394 --> 01:32:14,354
Carlos Marcello said he was
going to kill the President
1752
01:32:14,398 --> 01:32:17,053
and he was going to use,
he said, "a nut,"
1753
01:32:17,096 --> 01:32:20,186
uh, use a patsy
to do it, for it.
1754
01:32:20,622 --> 01:32:24,103
So that everybody would think
the patsy was involved.
1755
01:32:24,147 --> 01:32:26,323
And now Oswald fits
that definition.
1756
01:32:26,889 --> 01:32:28,717
And that's one of the reasons
they had to kill him
1757
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:29,848
-right afterwards.
-Okay.
1758
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:31,284
And that's...
1759
01:32:33,373 --> 01:32:36,768
How would they have killed him?
Well, Jack Ruby killed him.
1760
01:32:36,812 --> 01:32:37,987
Now the question is,
1761
01:32:38,030 --> 01:32:40,946
can Jack Ruby be connected to...
1762
01:32:42,469 --> 01:32:45,429
Mar-- Marcello
and the whole mob connection?
1763
01:32:45,821 --> 01:32:49,433
And the answer is
"Yes," like, overwhelmingly.
1764
01:32:50,652 --> 01:32:53,524
Did Jack Ruby act at that time?
1765
01:32:53,568 --> 01:32:54,960
Well, he never admitted it.
1766
01:32:55,613 --> 01:32:58,268
He said that he did it,
but, a-- as you put it,
1767
01:32:58,660 --> 01:33:00,575
is to prove that Jews had guts.
1768
01:33:01,401 --> 01:33:04,622
Your story is not inconsistent
1769
01:33:05,014 --> 01:33:07,016
with him having done it
for the mob.
1770
01:33:07,756 --> 01:33:08,974
They both could be true.
1771
01:33:10,933 --> 01:33:13,805
[Brendan]
While I have the deepest
respect for Professor Blakey,
1772
01:33:14,501 --> 01:33:17,766
I strongly disagree
with his theory.
1773
01:33:18,505 --> 01:33:22,031
My reason?
The history behind Jack Ruby.
1774
01:33:23,728 --> 01:33:28,385
When asked if Ruby was a part
of the, part of organized crime,
1775
01:33:28,994 --> 01:33:30,779
the detective who was
a specialist
1776
01:33:30,822 --> 01:33:32,389
in organized crime in Dallas
1777
01:33:32,781 --> 01:33:35,740
during that earlier time period,
1778
01:33:36,393 --> 01:33:40,919
his remark was that, "If Ruby
was a part of organized crime,
1779
01:33:40,963 --> 01:33:44,836
organized crime needs
a new Human Resources Director."
1780
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,622
Here Oswald had been
in custody for,
1781
01:33:48,013 --> 01:33:51,756
uh, a day and a half,
since Friday afternoon
1782
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:53,149
until Sunday morning.
1783
01:33:53,192 --> 01:33:54,933
So Oswald was not breaking.
1784
01:33:55,847 --> 01:33:59,155
Uh, and Oswald was not
that talkative a person.
1785
01:34:00,330 --> 01:34:02,375
Almost the last person
that I would want
1786
01:34:02,724 --> 01:34:05,248
to make sure that the conspiracy
stays a secret
1787
01:34:05,988 --> 01:34:08,817
is Jack Ruby,
because he was a talker.
1788
01:34:09,426 --> 01:34:12,124
The mafia is not crazy,
and they would not have wanted
1789
01:34:12,168 --> 01:34:15,171
this talkative fellow,
uncontrolled fellow,
1790
01:34:15,214 --> 01:34:17,913
unstable fellow, uh, in prison
1791
01:34:18,435 --> 01:34:20,306
rather than Lee Harvey Oswald.
1792
01:34:20,916 --> 01:34:23,745
[Burt]
Ruby had some pretty
knowledgeable lawyers
1793
01:34:23,788 --> 01:34:25,224
representing him at his trial.
1794
01:34:26,138 --> 01:34:31,274
Uh, if Ruby had
some kind of information
1795
01:34:32,362 --> 01:34:34,669
that the mafia
was involved in this,
1796
01:34:35,626 --> 01:34:37,584
uh, don't you think
his lawyers--
1797
01:34:37,628 --> 01:34:40,370
he would've told his lawyers,
and his lawyers would've tried
1798
01:34:40,413 --> 01:34:42,677
to have made a deal
of some sort for him?
1799
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:45,288
He got the death penalty
at one point.
1800
01:34:46,071 --> 01:34:49,814
Uh, it was a real deal
that he could've made.
1801
01:34:51,773 --> 01:34:53,078
[Brendan]
So who was Jack Ruby?
1802
01:34:54,776 --> 01:34:56,429
Why did he murder Oswald
and how did he happen to be
1803
01:34:56,473 --> 01:34:57,822
in the position to do it?
1804
01:34:59,955 --> 01:35:01,565
The Warren Commission staff
began their investigation
of him,
1805
01:35:01,608 --> 01:35:03,915
beginning with the date
in late September
1806
01:35:03,959 --> 01:35:06,788
when it was first announced
the President was coming
to Texas.
1807
01:35:07,527 --> 01:35:09,399
Where was Ruby?
What had he done?
1808
01:35:09,442 --> 01:35:13,229
Who had he talked to up until
the time he shot, uh, Oswald?
1809
01:35:13,272 --> 01:35:16,711
So we were trying to develop
a chronology of his activities.
1810
01:35:17,407 --> 01:35:21,367
I felt that Ruby might well
have been assisted in some way
1811
01:35:21,890 --> 01:35:25,023
to do this kind of thing,
or somebody had tolerated him.
1812
01:35:26,155 --> 01:35:30,289
Jack Ruby had
been born in Chicago
1813
01:35:31,421 --> 01:35:34,163
of Jewish immigrant parents.
1814
01:35:34,206 --> 01:35:37,993
When he came to Dallas
after the Second World War,
1815
01:35:38,820 --> 01:35:42,824
at the very same time,
he and his two brothers
1816
01:35:42,867 --> 01:35:45,957
changed their name
from Rubenstein to Ruby.
1817
01:35:48,003 --> 01:35:51,223
Uh, it wasn't
an uncommon thing to do
1818
01:35:51,267 --> 01:35:53,573
if you were going
to live in Dallas,
1819
01:35:53,878 --> 01:35:58,883
which, uh, was a community,
1820
01:35:58,927 --> 01:36:02,321
uh, that had a high level
of antisemitism.
1821
01:36:02,844 --> 01:36:06,195
His entrepreneu--
primary entrepreneurial activity
1822
01:36:06,238 --> 01:36:08,110
was to run striptease clubs.
1823
01:36:08,632 --> 01:36:12,810
He knew people who were involved
1824
01:36:12,854 --> 01:36:15,857
in organized crime
from his childhood,
1825
01:36:15,900 --> 01:36:19,991
and he knew them
from the striptease
clubs he ran,
1826
01:36:20,035 --> 01:36:22,472
because the people
that he dealt with,
1827
01:36:22,515 --> 01:36:23,516
the Union people,
1828
01:36:23,908 --> 01:36:26,563
uh, also had those connections.
1829
01:36:30,349 --> 01:36:32,961
So I started to read
the transcript
of the Ruby trial,
1830
01:36:33,004 --> 01:36:36,703
he had been tried
and then, as I recall,
convicted by March or so.
1831
01:36:37,052 --> 01:36:40,185
Uh, and-- so I was reading
through the transcript,
1832
01:36:40,620 --> 01:36:44,494
uh, and it was really a very
interesting, uh, journey for me,
1833
01:36:44,886 --> 01:36:49,455
uh, because, uh,
the issue of Ruby's Jewishness,
1834
01:36:49,934 --> 01:36:53,459
uh, had been raised
a number of different ways,
1835
01:36:53,503 --> 01:36:55,679
uh, partly by Ruby himself,
1836
01:36:56,114 --> 01:36:59,596
who had been incensed
by an ad that appeared
in the Dallas Morning News
1837
01:36:59,639 --> 01:37:02,425
on the morning
of November 22nd, 1963,
1838
01:37:02,904 --> 01:37:04,514
uh, with a black border
1839
01:37:04,557 --> 01:37:06,864
saying "Welcome to Dallas,
Mr. President."
1840
01:37:06,908 --> 01:37:09,258
And, uh,
signed Bernard Weissman.
1841
01:37:09,301 --> 01:37:12,174
And Ruby assumed that
Bernard Weissman was Jewish,
1842
01:37:12,217 --> 01:37:13,871
although he had
never heard of him.
1843
01:37:13,915 --> 01:37:16,439
He felt that it was all prob--
1844
01:37:16,482 --> 01:37:20,051
unlikely probable
that whoever had placed
that ad in the newspaper
1845
01:37:20,095 --> 01:37:24,012
was somehow linked
to the assassination.
1846
01:37:24,055 --> 01:37:26,884
And that a Jewish name
had been put on this ad
1847
01:37:27,537 --> 01:37:30,670
by people who were somehow
involved in the assassination,
1848
01:37:30,714 --> 01:37:32,542
so that the Jews would be blamed
1849
01:37:32,585 --> 01:37:34,457
for the assassination
of President Kennedy
1850
01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:37,329
and would feed
right into the anti-Semitism
1851
01:37:37,373 --> 01:37:40,942
that he felt so strongly
existed in Dallas.
1852
01:37:41,725 --> 01:37:45,381
So, you know, Ruby,
at that point became
1853
01:37:45,424 --> 01:37:47,470
the first
conspiracy investigator.
1854
01:37:48,993 --> 01:37:51,909
So, with his high class
investigative techniques,
1855
01:37:51,953 --> 01:37:54,129
he set out to find Weissman.
1856
01:37:54,172 --> 01:37:56,348
He looked
in the telephone directory.
1857
01:37:56,871 --> 01:37:59,743
He couldn't find Weissman's name
in the telephone directory.
1858
01:38:00,352 --> 01:38:02,833
He looked in a street directory.
1859
01:38:02,877 --> 01:38:05,618
He couldn't find Weissman's name
in the street directory.
1860
01:38:06,141 --> 01:38:07,882
That night, Friday night,
1861
01:38:08,447 --> 01:38:11,102
he went to re-- religious
services at his temple
1862
01:38:11,668 --> 01:38:14,497
and he asked his rabbi if he'd
ever heard of Bernard Weissman
1863
01:38:14,889 --> 01:38:17,717
and Rabbi Silverman had
never heard of Bernard Weissman.
1864
01:38:19,197 --> 01:38:23,071
I was not happy
with the politics in the US,
1865
01:38:23,462 --> 01:38:26,813
though not that interested
to where I would do
something about it.
1866
01:38:27,336 --> 01:38:31,818
[Brendan]
As a young soldier stationed
in postwar Germany in 1961,
1867
01:38:32,167 --> 01:38:34,038
Weismann got to know
Larry Schmidt,
1868
01:38:34,734 --> 01:38:36,867
who was active
in conservative politics.
1869
01:38:37,694 --> 01:38:40,958
Together with a few others,
they formed an organization
1870
01:38:41,002 --> 01:38:44,005
called CUSA, Conservative USA.
1871
01:38:44,831 --> 01:38:47,182
By November 1963,
1872
01:38:47,225 --> 01:38:49,793
Schmidt had become
a right wing activist
1873
01:38:49,836 --> 01:38:52,883
in the Dallas area when Weissman joined him there.
1874
01:38:53,623 --> 01:38:55,930
Learning of the President's
impending visit,
1875
01:38:56,278 --> 01:38:58,367
they decided to place
the newspaper ad
1876
01:38:58,410 --> 01:38:59,934
in theDallas Morning News.
1877
01:39:00,412 --> 01:39:03,328
Tell us about
the concoction of the ad
1878
01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:06,157
and what that ad
was going to be.
1879
01:39:06,201 --> 01:39:10,379
Okay. Larry presented
a preliminary heading,
1880
01:39:12,076 --> 01:39:14,992
and we looked at it
and talked about it, uh,
1881
01:39:15,036 --> 01:39:18,865
and then discussed what--
"Well, let's change this
and let's put this in.
1882
01:39:18,909 --> 01:39:21,477
Let's put that in."
And then, ten items.
1883
01:39:22,521 --> 01:39:25,960
-We wanted ten questions...
-To President Kennedy.
1884
01:39:26,003 --> 01:39:27,526
...to President Kennedy.
1885
01:39:27,570 --> 01:39:29,789
So we concoct the ad and I'm,
I'm taking it
1886
01:39:29,833 --> 01:39:34,272
-to the fellow
at the Dallas Morning News...
-Yeah.
1887
01:39:35,056 --> 01:39:37,145
...uh, the layout guy.
1888
01:39:37,710 --> 01:39:40,235
And we're going
to have it laid out.
1889
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:44,021
And, uh, I'm eliminating
this and eliminating that,
1890
01:39:44,065 --> 01:39:46,284
all the little mistakes
they've made, and I said,
1891
01:39:46,328 --> 01:39:48,765
"Uh, just to put the ad in,
that's not going to do it.
1892
01:39:48,808 --> 01:39:50,810
Uh, put a,
put a black border around it.
1893
01:39:51,289 --> 01:39:53,552
Just, yeah, put a black border."
1894
01:39:53,596 --> 01:39:56,729
And so, I come back in the,
in the day,
1895
01:39:56,773 --> 01:39:59,950
the next day and he's got
the layout, and I said,
1896
01:40:00,690 --> 01:40:02,126
"Uh, make it a little wider."
1897
01:40:03,519 --> 01:40:05,782
So I said,
"No, a little wider than that."
1898
01:40:06,348 --> 01:40:08,263
-That's th--
that's the black border.
-And the wider-- that's,
1899
01:40:08,306 --> 01:40:10,091
-That's the black border.
-Okay.
1900
01:40:10,134 --> 01:40:12,136
I said, "Because that
will attract the attention."
1901
01:40:12,180 --> 01:40:14,225
Then, as far as the name goes...
1902
01:40:14,269 --> 01:40:16,097
-Right.
-...we invented a name.
1903
01:40:16,445 --> 01:40:18,012
"American
Fact-Finding Committee."
1904
01:40:18,577 --> 01:40:20,884
"Oh, that's good enough.
It's good enough for the ad,
1905
01:40:21,232 --> 01:40:22,625
and we'll rent a box."
1906
01:40:22,668 --> 01:40:25,976
But, but look,
the Committee has to have
1907
01:40:26,020 --> 01:40:28,674
-some name on-- somebody's
name on it, doesn't it?
-Well,
1908
01:40:28,718 --> 01:40:31,764
I or we came up with the idea,
"Well, look,
1909
01:40:33,331 --> 01:40:38,249
most of the Jews
in Dallas are liberal."
1910
01:40:38,902 --> 01:40:40,860
-Yeah.
-"Pretty strongly liberal."
1911
01:40:42,079 --> 01:40:45,430
And I said, "If I put my--
if we put my name in that,
1912
01:40:47,215 --> 01:40:50,174
-yeah, that--
that'll be helpful."
-It would show--
1913
01:40:50,218 --> 01:40:52,133
-it would show that not every--
-it would show that not every,
1914
01:40:52,176 --> 01:40:54,787
not every Jewish guy is,
uh, liberal,
1915
01:40:55,136 --> 01:40:58,226
that there are
conservative Jews.
1916
01:40:58,269 --> 01:40:59,575
-Right.
-You know?
1917
01:40:59,618 --> 01:41:01,272
And fearlessly conservative Jews
1918
01:41:01,316 --> 01:41:02,926
-at that particular point.
-Right.
1919
01:41:04,493 --> 01:41:07,539
And so, that's--
that's how the name came about.
1920
01:41:08,105 --> 01:41:12,022
What did you hope to accomplish
by placing that ad?
1921
01:41:12,631 --> 01:41:15,156
Putting us up front, notoriety.
1922
01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:18,376
But most of it was
adjusting our point of view out
1923
01:41:18,985 --> 01:41:23,033
and to create a stir.
We thought the questions
were provocative enough
1924
01:41:24,426 --> 01:41:26,645
that it would promote
a lot of conversation,
1925
01:41:27,298 --> 01:41:29,213
positive, negative,
didn't matter,
1926
01:41:29,735 --> 01:41:31,607
as long as we had the publicity.
1927
01:41:31,955 --> 01:41:34,610
Had any of you ever heard
1928
01:41:35,045 --> 01:41:37,352
of Lee Harvey Oswald
1929
01:41:37,395 --> 01:41:38,831
-up to that point?
-No. Never.
1930
01:41:39,354 --> 01:41:41,182
And had any of you ever heard
1931
01:41:41,225 --> 01:41:43,358
-of Jack Ruby up to that point?
-Never.
1932
01:41:45,838 --> 01:41:47,666
Ruby really was obsessed
over the whole weekend
1933
01:41:47,710 --> 01:41:49,277
with the assassination, period.
1934
01:41:49,625 --> 01:41:52,280
Uh, I still remember
the description of his apartment
1935
01:41:52,628 --> 01:41:55,196
when the police came in there,
I mean, the whole place
1936
01:41:55,239 --> 01:41:58,286
was full of newspaper articles
about the assassination.
1937
01:41:59,635 --> 01:42:01,202
And that was all he talked about
1938
01:42:01,550 --> 01:42:03,247
to many people
over that weekend.
1939
01:42:04,466 --> 01:42:06,946
After he went to services
on Friday night,
1940
01:42:07,425 --> 01:42:08,992
he decided he would try to,
1941
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,082
uh, get into the police station,
1942
01:42:12,126 --> 01:42:14,040
where incidentally, uh,
1943
01:42:14,084 --> 01:42:16,304
Oswald was being held
and questioned,
1944
01:42:16,347 --> 01:42:19,698
and it was mobbed with newspaper
1945
01:42:19,742 --> 01:42:23,441
and news media people,
television, radio, everybody.
1946
01:42:24,138 --> 01:42:26,357
And I remember
sitting in the, uh,
1947
01:42:26,401 --> 01:42:30,274
in the room in the VFW Building
where the Commission was housed,
1948
01:42:30,666 --> 01:42:32,929
where they showed videos
and there was this video
1949
01:42:32,972 --> 01:42:35,540
of Oswald being presented,
1950
01:42:35,584 --> 01:42:38,282
and the camera panned
around the room,
1951
01:42:38,326 --> 01:42:41,155
and wait a minute, can it be?
It was Jack Ruby.
1952
01:42:41,546 --> 01:42:43,287
How the h--
how did he get in there?
1953
01:42:43,331 --> 01:42:44,767
What was he doing there?
1954
01:42:44,810 --> 01:42:46,595
Ruby was there,
we have a picture of Ruby
1955
01:42:46,638 --> 01:42:49,728
standing on a table
with a piece of--
1956
01:42:49,772 --> 01:42:53,732
a pad of paper in his hand
and a pencil in the other hand.
1957
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,257
And he told the police
that he was there
1958
01:42:56,300 --> 01:42:59,129
as an interviewer
for the Israeli Press.
1959
01:43:00,043 --> 01:43:01,697
Incidentally, Ruby later told us
1960
01:43:01,740 --> 01:43:04,352
he actually had a gun
in his pocket at that time.
1961
01:43:05,135 --> 01:43:09,705
If he really wanted to kill
Oswald and that was
a premeditated plan,
1962
01:43:10,140 --> 01:43:11,968
why didn't he do it
then and there?
1963
01:43:12,403 --> 01:43:16,451
When he got home, he found
that he had a telephone call
1964
01:43:16,886 --> 01:43:19,105
from one of his strippers
who lived in Fort Worth,
1965
01:43:19,149 --> 01:43:22,152
whose name was Little-- no,
her stage name was Little Lynn.
1966
01:43:22,544 --> 01:43:25,895
And because he closed
his nightclubs that night,
1967
01:43:25,938 --> 01:43:27,462
Little Lynn didn't get paid,
1968
01:43:27,810 --> 01:43:29,942
so she wanted Ruby
to give her some money.
1969
01:43:30,943 --> 01:43:32,467
So, Ruby told
1970
01:43:33,032 --> 01:43:34,643
uh, she made--
this gal had made--
1971
01:43:34,686 --> 01:43:36,906
again, we didn't have
cell phones in those days.
1972
01:43:36,949 --> 01:43:39,909
She, she had made a phone call
from a parking garage.
1973
01:43:40,257 --> 01:43:42,477
And Ruby told
the parking garage attendant
1974
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,916
to give her ten dollars and Ruby
would pa-- pay for this.
1975
01:43:46,959 --> 01:43:49,440
But the next morning,
Little Lynn called him again
1976
01:43:50,180 --> 01:43:51,921
at about 9:30 in the morning.
1977
01:43:51,964 --> 01:43:53,139
Incidentally, at this point,
1978
01:43:54,924 --> 01:43:58,275
the media had announced
that Oswald was going
to be transferred
1979
01:43:58,319 --> 01:43:59,668
at ten o'clock in the morning.
1980
01:44:00,625 --> 01:44:03,715
Ruby's not--
is scarcely up at 9:30.
1981
01:44:05,456 --> 01:44:07,937
He gets a phone-- another
phone call from Little Lynn.
1982
01:44:08,546 --> 01:44:10,679
Little Lynn needs $25
1983
01:44:11,549 --> 01:44:14,160
to take care of food
and pay her landlord.
1984
01:44:15,074 --> 01:44:17,425
So, Ruby says he'll go downtown.
1985
01:44:17,468 --> 01:44:21,429
He leaves his apartment
after ten o'clock,
1986
01:44:21,472 --> 01:44:25,607
after the time when Oswald
was supposed to have been moved,
1987
01:44:26,085 --> 01:44:29,524
and takes with him
his favorite dog, Sheba.
1988
01:44:30,394 --> 01:44:34,006
[Murray]
So Ruby goes down
to Downtown Dallas.
1989
01:44:34,355 --> 01:44:36,661
As it turns out,
the Western Union office,
1990
01:44:37,053 --> 01:44:40,274
uh, was a few hundred feet
from the jail.
1991
01:44:41,187 --> 01:44:44,321
And, uh, he's there,
and I think it was like 11:16
1992
01:44:44,365 --> 01:44:47,019
or 11:17 in the morning,
and we know that
1993
01:44:47,368 --> 01:44:50,545
because there were three copies
of the money order.
1994
01:44:51,023 --> 01:44:53,765
Four minutes later, he's
in the basement shooting Oswald.
1995
01:44:54,375 --> 01:44:57,856
And, you know, if he-- if he had
a plan to shoot Oswald,
1996
01:44:58,292 --> 01:45:01,643
I mean, that was the most
fortuitous way to do it,
1997
01:45:01,686 --> 01:45:04,428
uh, to be called by,
by a stripper,
1998
01:45:04,472 --> 01:45:08,867
and, of course, we questioned,
uh, the stripper at length
about what happened.
1999
01:45:08,911 --> 01:45:11,609
We knew that the, uh, w--
we went to Western Union,
2000
01:45:11,653 --> 01:45:15,700
they certified
that the money order was,
uh, was genuine.
2001
01:45:15,744 --> 01:45:19,704
And then it happened, you know,
that, uh, one of the policemen
2002
01:45:19,748 --> 01:45:22,403
who was standing watch
by one of the driveways,
2003
01:45:22,446 --> 01:45:25,841
when the decoy car
that was supposed
to take Oswald came out,
2004
01:45:25,884 --> 01:45:28,191
that policeman went to the car,
2005
01:45:28,234 --> 01:45:31,890
giving R-- uh,
Ruby the opportunity
to go down the driveway.
2006
01:45:32,326 --> 01:45:34,458
So, I mean, just so
many things that happened,
2007
01:45:34,502 --> 01:45:36,895
uh, that to me made it
absolutely clear,
2008
01:45:36,939 --> 01:45:38,810
and to Burt it's
absolutely clear,
2009
01:45:38,854 --> 01:45:41,552
uh, that this couldn't
have been premeditated.
2010
01:45:41,596 --> 01:45:44,512
He couldn't have really planned
to go and kill Oswald,
2011
01:45:44,555 --> 01:45:45,817
certainly not at that time.
2012
01:45:46,340 --> 01:45:47,515
-[shotgun fires]
-[men yells]
2013
01:45:47,558 --> 01:45:49,255
[crowd shouts]
2014
01:45:49,299 --> 01:45:51,127
[Burt]
When Ruby was wrestled
to the ground
2015
01:45:51,170 --> 01:45:54,913
and taken upstairs
in the police department
2016
01:45:54,957 --> 01:45:58,221
to be questioned
by Homicide Captain Fritz,
2017
01:45:58,656 --> 01:46:01,572
when Fritz asked him,
"Jack, why did you do it?"
2018
01:46:02,181 --> 01:46:06,272
Ruby's answer was,
"I had to show the world
a Jew had guts."
2019
01:46:07,143 --> 01:46:09,232
My feeling really was
that he did it as,
2020
01:46:09,275 --> 01:46:12,148
in an emo-- that Ruby killed
Oswald as an emotional outburst.
2021
01:46:12,714 --> 01:46:15,369
He was so emotionally upset
by the assassination,
2022
01:46:16,544 --> 01:46:17,980
and he didn't think.
2023
01:46:18,023 --> 01:46:20,330
He saw Oswald in front of him,
2024
01:46:20,678 --> 01:46:22,419
uh, he had a gun in his pocket,
2025
01:46:22,463 --> 01:46:25,596
which he typically carried
with him. So he shot him.
2026
01:46:26,162 --> 01:46:28,947
[Brendan]
Since the Warren Commission
report was released,
2027
01:46:28,991 --> 01:46:31,210
no one has been able
to show concrete evidence
2028
01:46:31,254 --> 01:46:34,779
of any contacts between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald
2029
01:46:34,823 --> 01:46:36,128
before the assassination.
2030
01:46:36,781 --> 01:46:38,827
[suspenseful music]
2031
01:46:39,610 --> 01:46:42,483
We decided early on that
it would be useful to explore,
2032
01:46:42,831 --> 01:46:44,963
uh, Oswald's sources of income.
2033
01:46:45,529 --> 01:46:47,662
The, the very simple minded
theory is that,
2034
01:46:47,705 --> 01:46:51,448
if he was an informant
for the FBI or other agency,
2035
01:46:51,492 --> 01:46:54,408
or was a member
of a well-to-do conspiracy,
2036
01:46:54,451 --> 01:46:56,148
he would be receiving
some income,
2037
01:46:56,714 --> 01:46:59,935
uh, to help make him
live more comfortably
2038
01:46:59,978 --> 01:47:02,720
while he planned
with his fellow conspirators
2039
01:47:02,764 --> 01:47:04,287
to assassinate the President.
2040
01:47:04,330 --> 01:47:06,507
We asked IRS to lend us,
2041
01:47:07,551 --> 01:47:12,251
uh, an IRS agent
to conduct an investigation
along these lines,
2042
01:47:12,687 --> 01:47:16,081
both his sources of incomes
and his expenditures
2043
01:47:16,430 --> 01:47:19,694
during the period
from which he returned
2044
01:47:19,737 --> 01:47:22,566
to the United States
in June 1962
2045
01:47:22,610 --> 01:47:25,439
until November 22nd, 1963.
2046
01:47:26,657 --> 01:47:31,923
At the time of his arrest,
he had approximately $183.87.
2047
01:47:32,358 --> 01:47:34,273
I may be mistaken on the cents.
2048
01:47:35,013 --> 01:47:38,060
It seemed, you know,
thoroughly rebut any suggestion
2049
01:47:38,103 --> 01:47:40,889
that he was receiving money
from any source
2050
01:47:40,932 --> 01:47:42,804
other than what we were
able to document,
2051
01:47:43,239 --> 01:47:48,462
um, and certainly he lived
an austere life, uh, to be sure.
2052
01:47:49,288 --> 01:47:51,465
Assume that one
of these groups decided
2053
01:47:51,508 --> 01:47:53,379
that they were going
to kill the President,
2054
01:47:54,337 --> 01:47:58,689
an assumption I find
prodigiously unlikely.
2055
01:47:59,429 --> 01:48:03,564
Oswald obviously would've been
one of the last people
in the face of this Earth
2056
01:48:03,607 --> 01:48:06,175
whom they would have gone to
to do their bidding for them.
2057
01:48:06,784 --> 01:48:09,265
Uh, not, not an expert shot.
2058
01:48:09,308 --> 01:48:11,267
He was a good shot,
but not an expert shot.
2059
01:48:11,310 --> 01:48:13,487
He had a $12 mailed order rifle.
2060
01:48:14,662 --> 01:48:19,405
Uh, notoriously unreliable,
unstable.
2061
01:48:19,710 --> 01:48:21,364
I mean, here's a guy
2062
01:48:21,407 --> 01:48:25,586
that defects to Russia
pre Gorbachev.
2063
01:48:26,021 --> 01:48:29,285
Even today, who in the heck
defects to Russia?
2064
01:48:29,981 --> 01:48:33,245
He gets over there,
wants to become a Soviet
citizen very desperately.
2065
01:48:33,289 --> 01:48:34,725
They turned him down.
What does he do?
2066
01:48:35,073 --> 01:48:36,858
He slashes his wrist,
2067
01:48:36,901 --> 01:48:39,425
tries to commit suicide,
ends up in a hospital.
2068
01:48:40,165 --> 01:48:43,865
Just the type of guy
that the CIA or mob
2069
01:48:43,908 --> 01:48:45,562
would want to rely upon
2070
01:48:46,258 --> 01:48:50,045
to commit the biggest murder
in American history.
2071
01:48:50,611 --> 01:48:56,573
If I was going to hire somebody
to be an assassin,
2072
01:48:58,488 --> 01:49:02,666
Oswald was-- Lee Harvey Oswald
was probably the last person
on my list.
2073
01:49:03,188 --> 01:49:05,234
[suspenseful music]
2074
01:49:07,584 --> 01:49:10,326
Even before I investigated, uh,
2075
01:49:10,848 --> 01:49:14,069
uh, I realized that you can't
draw a distinction
2076
01:49:14,112 --> 01:49:17,115
between foreign and domestic,
uh, conspiracies.
2077
01:49:17,551 --> 01:49:22,120
Uh, the real and best example
would be the anti-Castro Cubans,
2078
01:49:22,164 --> 01:49:23,948
who I suspected
at the beginning.
2079
01:49:24,296 --> 01:49:27,604
They were-- anti-Castro Cubans
were largely in Florida.
2080
01:49:27,648 --> 01:49:31,129
And of course, uh,
they were Cubans. [chuckles]
2081
01:49:31,173 --> 01:49:35,873
And, uh, they had relatives
and friends still in Cuba.
2082
01:49:36,265 --> 01:49:40,008
And they themselves
had been there just until
a few years ago.
2083
01:49:40,356 --> 01:49:43,054
Uh, but this was basically true
with all of them,
2084
01:49:43,098 --> 01:49:47,363
with Cuba, there was--
any conspiracy had to have,
2085
01:49:47,406 --> 01:49:50,496
uh, agents, at least,
in the United States.
2086
01:49:50,540 --> 01:49:54,152
So that much, uh,
we just forgot the foreign,
2087
01:49:54,196 --> 01:49:56,067
just give us the conspiracy,
period.
2088
01:49:57,765 --> 01:50:00,158
The anti-Castro Cubans,
2089
01:50:00,202 --> 01:50:03,292
originally, this is
my just personal opinion,
2090
01:50:03,901 --> 01:50:06,512
was that they were
the prime suspect,
2091
01:50:07,035 --> 01:50:09,951
uh, because they hated Kennedy
2092
01:50:09,994 --> 01:50:14,651
because he had aborted
the Bay of Pigs, uh, Invasion.
2093
01:50:15,434 --> 01:50:19,569
And they thought they could gain
by having Oswald do it.
2094
01:50:19,613 --> 01:50:22,006
This is my theory at the time.
2095
01:50:22,441 --> 01:50:24,792
Uh, and then blame it on Cuba.
2096
01:50:25,227 --> 01:50:27,795
And so that would trigger
a real invasion.
2097
01:50:27,838 --> 01:50:31,668
Well, we found
zero evidence of this.
2098
01:50:31,712 --> 01:50:34,279
And so it boiled down to Cuba,
2099
01:50:34,323 --> 01:50:36,107
and the reason
it boiled down to them
2100
01:50:36,151 --> 01:50:38,762
was because of Oswald's trip
to Mexico City,
2101
01:50:39,241 --> 01:50:42,200
where he dealt with, uh,
both the Cuban Embassy
2102
01:50:42,244 --> 01:50:45,508
and the Russian Embassy
in ways that, uh,
2103
01:50:45,900 --> 01:50:48,946
that even to this day
were not entirely clear,
2104
01:50:48,990 --> 01:50:49,947
uh,
2105
01:50:50,731 --> 01:50:52,428
except that the CIA t--
2106
01:50:52,471 --> 01:50:54,648
did not tell us
a lot that they knew.
2107
01:50:55,953 --> 01:50:58,477
[Brendan]
During the Warren Commission's
investigation,
2108
01:50:58,521 --> 01:51:02,264
the CIA was being led
by Kennedy family friend,
John McCone.
2109
01:51:03,004 --> 01:51:05,920
[David]
When McCone testified
before the Warren Commission,
2110
01:51:05,963 --> 01:51:09,053
uh, he didn't mention
anything about Oswald
2111
01:51:09,097 --> 01:51:12,404
being in Mexico City,
or at least what we knew
about it.
2112
01:51:12,448 --> 01:51:14,450
The principle reason there
is that we had
2113
01:51:14,493 --> 01:51:17,801
some very sensitive, uh,
surveillance operations
underway,
2114
01:51:17,845 --> 01:51:20,499
both audio and, uh, visual.
2115
01:51:20,543 --> 01:51:22,501
And he didn't want,
in a public setting,
2116
01:51:22,545 --> 01:51:25,853
to disclose that sensitive,
uh, source.
2117
01:51:25,896 --> 01:51:27,942
[light tense music]
2118
01:51:30,248 --> 01:51:32,207
[Brendan]
Also kept hidden
from the Warren Commission
2119
01:51:32,250 --> 01:51:35,558
was that the CIA,
prior to the assassination,
2120
01:51:35,601 --> 01:51:37,734
had plans to kill Fidel Castro
2121
01:51:37,778 --> 01:51:41,172
with the full knowledge
of Attorney General
Robert Kennedy
2122
01:51:41,216 --> 01:51:43,348
and, presumably,
President Kennedy.
2123
01:51:43,958 --> 01:51:47,570
Some of these plots
involved the use of members
of organized crime
2124
01:51:47,613 --> 01:51:50,921
who had a vested interest
in reclaiming their casinos,
2125
01:51:50,965 --> 01:51:52,749
which they'd lost under Castro.
2126
01:51:53,445 --> 01:51:56,187
If that was the case,
could the assassination
2127
01:51:56,231 --> 01:51:59,669
of President Kennedy have been
a retaliation by Castro?
2128
01:52:00,322 --> 01:52:03,281
In other words,
did Castro get Kennedy first?
2129
01:52:04,195 --> 01:52:06,589
The CIA didn't want
the Warren Commission
2130
01:52:06,632 --> 01:52:09,548
to know about their plot
to kill Castro.
2131
01:52:09,592 --> 01:52:12,726
They didn't want anyone to know
that they got in bed
2132
01:52:13,204 --> 01:52:15,337
with the mob to do so.
2133
01:52:15,380 --> 01:52:18,253
When it was exposed in the 1970s
2134
01:52:18,296 --> 01:52:22,431
that the agency had
been trying to kill Castro
2135
01:52:22,474 --> 01:52:25,434
through intermediaries like,
uh, members of the underworld
2136
01:52:25,477 --> 01:52:26,957
and Cuban proxies and such,
2137
01:52:27,349 --> 01:52:30,874
uh, this became
a big point of contention
2138
01:52:30,918 --> 01:52:34,095
about why the agency
had not disclosed this
to the Warren Commission.
2139
01:52:34,138 --> 01:52:37,794
The logic being that,
if Castro knew we had been
trying to kill him,
2140
01:52:37,838 --> 01:52:41,189
then maybe he'd used his
own proxy, Lee Harvey Oswald,
2141
01:52:41,232 --> 01:52:44,279
to take out the President,
who had been trying to kill him.
2142
01:52:44,888 --> 01:52:49,632
Well, we concluded very early
on in our own investigation
of the assassination,
2143
01:52:49,675 --> 01:52:52,461
and this is roughly
mid-December,
2144
01:52:52,504 --> 01:52:54,419
I would pinpoint it,
it's hard to,
2145
01:52:54,768 --> 01:52:59,076
that no foreign hand
was behind the assassination,
2146
01:52:59,120 --> 01:53:01,078
that Lee Harvey Oswald,
for whatever motives,
2147
01:53:01,122 --> 01:53:02,297
had done it on his own.
2148
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:07,476
[Burt]
We did know back in 1964
2149
01:53:07,519 --> 01:53:11,045
that Castro had claimed
that we were trying
to assassinate him.
2150
01:53:11,393 --> 01:53:17,051
But frankly,
we were all stunned to find out
2151
01:53:17,486 --> 01:53:21,185
that the CIA was attempting
to assassinate Castro.
2152
01:53:22,404 --> 01:53:24,710
The agency's interaction
with the Warren Commission
2153
01:53:24,754 --> 01:53:26,800
I think can best
be characterized
2154
01:53:26,843 --> 01:53:29,237
as passive and reactive.
2155
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:33,458
The record is pretty clear
that the CIA only gave up
2156
01:53:33,502 --> 01:53:35,112
what it was asked to give up,
2157
01:53:35,156 --> 01:53:37,332
it did not
volunteer information,
2158
01:53:37,375 --> 01:53:40,552
it did not provide
the Warren Commission
with leads.
2159
01:53:40,596 --> 01:53:43,947
It simply responded
to dozens and dozens
of questions
2160
01:53:43,991 --> 01:53:45,253
as fully as it could.
2161
01:53:45,644 --> 01:53:47,211
But this was part of, I think,
2162
01:53:47,255 --> 01:53:49,692
the conscious effort
to make sure
2163
01:53:49,735 --> 01:53:53,565
the Warren Commission,
from CIA's light,
stayed on track
2164
01:53:53,609 --> 01:53:56,873
looking at Oswald
as the assassin
2165
01:53:56,917 --> 01:53:59,658
and not running down
these blind alleys
2166
01:53:59,702 --> 01:54:02,748
looking at possible conspiracies
involving the Soviets,
2167
01:54:02,792 --> 01:54:05,186
the Cubans, the underworld,
uh, whomever.
2168
01:54:05,795 --> 01:54:08,842
And that, later on,
came to be seen
2169
01:54:08,885 --> 01:54:10,452
as bit of a cover-up.
2170
01:54:10,844 --> 01:54:13,194
And the agency did suffer some,
2171
01:54:13,237 --> 01:54:16,632
uh, public, uh,
recriminations because of that.
2172
01:54:16,937 --> 01:54:18,808
[Howard]
It raises, you know,
the broader question
2173
01:54:18,852 --> 01:54:20,897
that people have raised
over the years
2174
01:54:20,941 --> 01:54:23,204
as whether
people like Allen Dulles,
2175
01:54:23,639 --> 01:54:27,295
uh, and Robert Kennedy
and others at CIA
2176
01:54:27,338 --> 01:54:31,995
who knew of CIA agency plans
to assassinate Castro
2177
01:54:32,604 --> 01:54:34,650
should have affirmatively
come forward
2178
01:54:34,955 --> 01:54:36,347
and told the Commission
2179
01:54:36,957 --> 01:54:40,917
that they knew
of such planning by the CIA,
2180
01:54:40,961 --> 01:54:43,180
so as to permit
the Commission to investigate
2181
01:54:43,224 --> 01:54:46,836
whether those plans
and the people they may
have involved
2182
01:54:47,271 --> 01:54:49,752
suggested any lines
of investigation
2183
01:54:49,795 --> 01:54:51,406
that should have been explored.
2184
01:54:52,233 --> 01:54:54,975
And most of the staff would say,
"Yes,
2185
01:54:55,018 --> 01:54:56,280
it should have been disclosed,
2186
01:54:57,020 --> 01:54:59,849
uh, and yes, we would've
conducted a somewhat
2187
01:55:00,241 --> 01:55:01,938
more thorough investigation."
2188
01:55:02,417 --> 01:55:06,682
Uh, but lastly,
it would not have changed
the ultimate findings,
2189
01:55:06,725 --> 01:55:08,553
because, in fact,
the House Select Committee,
2190
01:55:08,989 --> 01:55:12,993
uh, did know of these facts,
did conduct a more thorough
investigation
2191
01:55:13,036 --> 01:55:15,473
and came up with the same
findings that we had,
2192
01:55:15,517 --> 01:55:17,388
namely the lack
of any involvement,
2193
01:55:17,823 --> 01:55:22,263
uh, by Cuba in the assassination
of President Kennedy.
2194
01:55:22,828 --> 01:55:24,961
[Brendan]
The details
about these CIA plots
2195
01:55:25,005 --> 01:55:27,442
only came to light in 1975
2196
01:55:27,790 --> 01:55:30,749
during an investigation
by the Rockefeller Commission
2197
01:55:30,793 --> 01:55:32,795
into CIA activities.
2198
01:55:34,014 --> 01:55:38,322
There was no foreign conspiracy
including, in particular, Cuba.
2199
01:55:38,932 --> 01:55:42,587
Uh, why I'm so firm on this,
even though,
2200
01:55:42,936 --> 01:55:47,070
uh, I know lot about that was
blocked from u-- us finding out?
2201
01:55:47,636 --> 01:55:51,814
Uh, one,
we were able to find out a lot,
2202
01:55:51,857 --> 01:55:54,991
and it was all negative
in that respect.
2203
01:55:55,035 --> 01:56:00,649
The other thing is the CIA hated
Castro. Absolutely hated.
2204
01:56:01,041 --> 01:56:04,044
Uh, when I was talking with,
uh, Ray Rocca once,
2205
01:56:04,087 --> 01:56:06,002
just as an illustration,
2206
01:56:06,046 --> 01:56:08,962
I suggested something
that slightly ameliorated
2207
01:56:09,005 --> 01:56:11,834
what he migh-- the evilness
of what he had done.
2208
01:56:11,877 --> 01:56:15,142
And Ray got up, we were talking,
we were sitting at a table,
2209
01:56:15,185 --> 01:56:17,709
he banged the table
with his fists, he says,
2210
01:56:17,753 --> 01:56:20,669
"Castro is a devil! A devil!"
[chuckles]
2211
01:56:20,712 --> 01:56:23,759
And I just laughed like this.
2212
01:56:23,802 --> 01:56:27,676
I mean, those guys, if they
could've pinned it on Castro,
2213
01:56:27,719 --> 01:56:30,157
would have done it, no doubt.
2214
01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:33,638
So despite everything
they hid from me,
2215
01:56:34,291 --> 01:56:35,989
in th-- that they knew,
2216
01:56:36,380 --> 01:56:41,081
in their own eyes,
despite their fervent wishes,
2217
01:56:41,124 --> 01:56:43,300
they couldn't pin it on Castro.
2218
01:56:43,344 --> 01:56:45,389
[suspenseful music]
2219
01:56:47,348 --> 01:56:50,699
[Vincent]
Oswald revered Fidel Castro
2220
01:56:50,742 --> 01:56:54,007
and was a very strong supporter of the Cuban Revolution.
2221
01:56:54,398 --> 01:56:55,965
He obviously was opposed
2222
01:56:56,009 --> 01:56:59,055
to the Bay of Pigs
Invasion in 1961,
2223
01:56:59,099 --> 01:57:00,622
which Kennedy supported.
2224
01:57:01,101 --> 01:57:02,754
[Kennedy]
I can assure you
2225
01:57:03,451 --> 01:57:06,671
that this flag will be returned
2226
01:57:06,715 --> 01:57:09,065
to this brigade
in a free Havana.
2227
01:57:09,109 --> 01:57:10,893
[crowd cheering]
2228
01:57:11,459 --> 01:57:13,983
[Vincent]
Five days
before the assassination,
2229
01:57:14,027 --> 01:57:16,551
Kennedy gave
a foreign policy speech
2230
01:57:17,117 --> 01:57:18,988
in, uh, Miami,
2231
01:57:19,032 --> 01:57:22,557
in which he all but invited
the Cuban people to rise up
2232
01:57:22,600 --> 01:57:26,996
against Castro, promising
prompt US aid if they did.
2233
01:57:28,258 --> 01:57:32,436
Uh, the Warren Commission
and the House Select Committee
2234
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,699
both believe,
and I agree with them,
2235
01:57:35,396 --> 01:57:40,227
that Oswald's love for Castro
and Cuba played a part
2236
01:57:40,662 --> 01:57:44,187
in his motive
for killing Kennedy,
2237
01:57:44,709 --> 01:57:47,451
We also have
every reason to believe now
2238
01:57:47,495 --> 01:57:51,107
that Oswald believed
that we were trying
2239
01:57:51,151 --> 01:57:53,849
to assassinate Castro.
2240
01:57:54,241 --> 01:57:57,722
Uh, Castro blamed
the United States
2241
01:57:57,766 --> 01:58:02,553
for trying to do that
in September 1963,
2242
01:58:02,597 --> 01:58:06,166
when Oswald was
still living in New Orleans.
2243
01:58:06,209 --> 01:58:10,735
And it was published
in the New Orleans, uh,
Times Picayune,
2244
01:58:10,779 --> 01:58:15,000
and Oswald was a devoted,
inveterate newspaper reader.
2245
01:58:15,044 --> 01:58:18,700
Moreover, Oswald had
a shortwave radio that--
2246
01:58:18,743 --> 01:58:21,833
which he listened to
and which he had with him
2247
01:58:21,877 --> 01:58:26,534
in this tiny little room
that he lived in, uh, in Dallas,
2248
01:58:26,577 --> 01:58:28,753
in this rooming house
when he lived alone
2249
01:58:28,797 --> 01:58:30,538
after he came back from Cuba.
2250
01:58:31,016 --> 01:58:35,630
And Havana radio was
filled with accusations
2251
01:58:35,673 --> 01:58:38,198
that the United States
was trying to assassinate
2252
01:58:38,241 --> 01:58:39,634
Castro and other people.
2253
01:58:39,677 --> 01:58:41,766
So my own feeling was that,
2254
01:58:41,810 --> 01:58:44,987
one, Oswald saw that there was
nothing immoral
2255
01:58:45,596 --> 01:58:49,165
about assassinating
the President
of the United States.
2256
01:58:49,209 --> 01:58:51,428
And moreover,
that maybe he could protect...
2257
01:58:52,647 --> 01:58:55,432
Castro,
if the right-wing got blamed.
2258
01:58:56,346 --> 01:58:59,871
Murder is the most personal
of all crimes.
2259
01:59:00,220 --> 01:59:01,917
Unless money is involved,
2260
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:05,399
usually the main passion
and motive for murder is hatred.
2261
01:59:06,356 --> 01:59:10,186
[Brendan]
As part of his preparation
for the unscripted mock trial,
2262
01:59:10,230 --> 01:59:13,972
Bugliosi felt he needed to find a motive for Oswald's action.
2263
01:59:14,451 --> 01:59:17,498
It was his experience
prosecuting Charles Manson
2264
01:59:17,541 --> 01:59:18,890
that made it clear to him.
2265
01:59:20,109 --> 01:59:24,200
[Vincent]
Manson never knew
the precise identity
2266
01:59:24,244 --> 01:59:28,117
of the people whom he ordered
his minions to kill,
2267
01:59:28,161 --> 01:59:30,119
but he knew they were members
of the establishment,
2268
01:59:30,163 --> 01:59:32,077
and he hated the establishment.
2269
01:59:32,687 --> 01:59:38,214
So, in a sense,
the Manson murders were
representative murders.
2270
01:59:38,562 --> 01:59:42,653
The victims represented
the establishment
to Charles Manson.
2271
01:59:43,176 --> 01:59:46,657
Oswald had this kind
of a curious, uh, entry,
2272
01:59:46,701 --> 01:59:48,572
a very important entry to me.
2273
01:59:49,182 --> 01:59:53,316
He said, "I've lived
under capitalism and communism
2274
01:59:54,056 --> 01:59:56,406
and I despise..."
2275
01:59:56,450 --> 01:59:59,714
there is that hatred
that I was looking for,
2276
02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:03,848
"...I despise
the representatives
2277
02:00:04,327 --> 02:00:05,676
of both systems."
2278
02:00:06,503 --> 02:00:08,462
He certainly must have
looked upon Kennedy
2279
02:00:08,505 --> 02:00:11,073
as the ultimate
quintessential representative
2280
02:00:11,116 --> 02:00:15,425
of a society for which
he had a grinding contempt.
2281
02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:19,864
And when he fired at Kennedy,
2282
02:00:20,604 --> 02:00:23,825
in his addled mind
he may have been firing
2283
02:00:23,868 --> 02:00:26,001
at the United States of America.
2284
02:00:28,177 --> 02:00:29,831
[Brendan]
In 1975,
2285
02:00:29,874 --> 02:00:32,529
it was another previously hidden bit of information
2286
02:00:32,573 --> 02:00:35,967
that added to the conviction
that Oswald acted alone.
2287
02:00:36,359 --> 02:00:38,970
It involved
Dallas FBI agent James Hosty.
2288
02:00:39,014 --> 02:00:40,842
[light suspenseful music]
2289
02:00:40,885 --> 02:00:43,410
[Burt]
James Hosty is an FBI agent
2290
02:00:43,453 --> 02:00:47,892
whose duty was
to keep track of Oswald.
2291
02:00:48,937 --> 02:00:53,811
And he then goes
to the only address--
2292
02:00:54,986 --> 02:00:57,772
residential address
that he has for Oswald
2293
02:00:57,815 --> 02:01:00,470
in a-- with the intention
of talking to Marina
2294
02:01:00,514 --> 02:01:03,168
and finding out where--
well, thinking, actually, that,
2295
02:01:03,212 --> 02:01:05,562
that that's where Oswald lived,
2296
02:01:05,606 --> 02:01:07,347
but later finding out
that he wasn't there,
2297
02:01:07,390 --> 02:01:09,958
but he doesn't get an address
because Marina and Ruth
2298
02:01:10,001 --> 02:01:11,873
don't have an address
for him either.
2299
02:01:11,916 --> 02:01:13,962
[gentle suspenseful piano music]
2300
02:01:17,400 --> 02:01:19,663
[Priscilla]
Oswald had moved around so much
2301
02:01:19,707 --> 02:01:22,710
that the FBI didn't really know
where he was yet.
2302
02:01:23,232 --> 02:01:26,191
[Burt]
When Oswald found out
that Hosty had been there,
2303
02:01:27,018 --> 02:01:31,284
he was very concerned,
asked Marina not to tell,
2304
02:01:31,675 --> 02:01:34,199
uh, Hosty anything,
2305
02:01:34,678 --> 02:01:36,941
uh, and, um,
2306
02:01:37,290 --> 02:01:40,031
and asked Marina to take down,
2307
02:01:40,641 --> 02:01:44,340
uh, the license plate
and the description of any car
2308
02:01:44,688 --> 02:01:46,647
that Hosty might have
if he came back
2309
02:01:46,690 --> 02:01:48,257
to interview him.
And he did come back.
2310
02:01:49,345 --> 02:01:52,740
He finds out that Hosty
has come back a second time.
2311
02:01:53,567 --> 02:01:55,569
So he's really upset about this.
2312
02:01:56,744 --> 02:02:00,269
The FBI Office is not
too far from the Texas
School Book Depository,
2313
02:02:00,313 --> 02:02:04,055
so it would be
an easy walk for Oswald
to go to the FBI Office.
2314
02:02:04,969 --> 02:02:07,450
Oswald goes there and leaves
2315
02:02:08,059 --> 02:02:10,758
an angry note to Hosty.
2316
02:02:12,368 --> 02:02:14,631
And the note contained
the information
2317
02:02:15,066 --> 02:02:20,333
that the secretary at the FBI
Office says it contained.
2318
02:02:20,768 --> 02:02:24,554
It was a threat to blow up
the FBI Office... [chuckles]
2319
02:02:25,033 --> 02:02:29,124
...if, if Hosty didn't stop
pestering his wife.
2320
02:02:30,386 --> 02:02:31,344
Now, come on.
2321
02:02:31,779 --> 02:02:34,172
Is someone who is planning
2322
02:02:34,216 --> 02:02:37,393
to assassinate the President
on November 12th
2323
02:02:37,959 --> 02:02:42,398
going to go to the FBI
and leave that kind of a note?
2324
02:02:42,964 --> 02:02:44,879
It's very likely that he's
going to get arrested
2325
02:02:44,922 --> 02:02:45,967
within a few days.
2326
02:02:47,621 --> 02:02:49,884
Because it's quite clear
that a threatening note
of that kind
2327
02:02:49,927 --> 02:02:52,016
should have forced Hosty
or persuaded him
2328
02:02:52,452 --> 02:02:56,107
to attach a higher urgency
to interviewing, uh, Oswald
2329
02:02:56,151 --> 02:02:57,935
than he presently
was exhibiting.
2330
02:02:58,588 --> 02:03:01,330
And it is my view,
of course, that if he
had gone to interview...
2331
02:03:01,896 --> 02:03:07,510
[stutters] Oswald within
the week following receipt
of this threatening note,
2332
02:03:07,989 --> 02:03:11,427
that interview in itself would
probably have deterred Oswald
2333
02:03:11,471 --> 02:03:12,863
from any assassination attempt.
2334
02:03:12,907 --> 02:03:14,952
[tense music]
2335
02:03:18,913 --> 02:03:23,265
Hosty is very upset
and distressed when he finds out
2336
02:03:23,308 --> 02:03:25,963
that the man he's supposed
to be keeping tabs on
2337
02:03:26,007 --> 02:03:27,356
is the one who's been arrested
2338
02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:29,402
for the shooting
of President Kennedy.
2339
02:03:30,620 --> 02:03:35,059
Hosty then goes to discuss
the note and shows the note
2340
02:03:35,103 --> 02:03:37,671
to his supervisor,
Gordon Shanklin.
2341
02:03:37,714 --> 02:03:41,239
And Shanklin is
terrified by this.
2342
02:03:41,283 --> 02:03:45,330
And his fear of what
will happen if J. Edgar Hoover
2343
02:03:45,679 --> 02:03:47,985
finds out about this note
2344
02:03:48,029 --> 02:03:50,335
and that Hosty
never did anything about it
2345
02:03:50,858 --> 02:03:52,207
is petrifying to him.
2346
02:03:52,729 --> 02:03:54,165
When Oswald is killed,
2347
02:03:55,471 --> 02:03:59,170
uh, Shanklin then,
according to Hosty,
2348
02:03:59,867 --> 02:04:01,651
tells Hosty to destroy the note,
2349
02:04:02,739 --> 02:04:06,439
which Hosty does.
And the Warren Commission
is never told about this.
2350
02:04:06,482 --> 02:04:08,266
If we had known about that note,
2351
02:04:08,310 --> 02:04:11,705
we would've known two things.
2352
02:04:12,488 --> 02:04:16,753
One, we would've been
reinforced in our belief
2353
02:04:16,797 --> 02:04:20,714
that there was no evidence
that Oswald was involved
2354
02:04:20,757 --> 02:04:23,543
in a conspiracy, certainly
not before he left the note.
2355
02:04:24,631 --> 02:04:25,675
Second of all,
2356
02:04:27,547 --> 02:04:33,640
it would-- it would've shown
in a very clear way
2357
02:04:34,336 --> 02:04:37,252
that the FBI had failed
to protect the President.
2358
02:04:38,732 --> 02:04:41,648
Because here's a guy
who is threatening the FBI,
2359
02:04:42,779 --> 02:04:47,218
surely you got to have
somebody looking at this guy
2360
02:04:47,958 --> 02:04:51,092
when he's right along
the route of the motorcade.
2361
02:04:52,049 --> 02:04:54,530
Oswald was
a very strange fellow.
2362
02:04:55,226 --> 02:04:59,230
Uh, that was another evidence
of his strangeness.
2363
02:04:59,666 --> 02:05:03,583
The text of that letter,
obviously, was never known.
2364
02:05:03,626 --> 02:05:07,630
I'm not sure that it would've
raised the level of concern
2365
02:05:07,674 --> 02:05:10,067
in the areas that, uh,
2366
02:05:11,678 --> 02:05:15,203
relate to the FBI's, uh,
2367
02:05:15,986 --> 02:05:18,380
accomplishment
of its duty to communicate
2368
02:05:18,423 --> 02:05:20,687
with the Secret Service.
2369
02:05:21,818 --> 02:05:24,299
There was no evidence
of Oswald's
2370
02:05:25,082 --> 02:05:27,650
engaging
in any violent activity,
2371
02:05:27,694 --> 02:05:32,089
no one at the time knew about
his attack on General Walker.
2372
02:05:32,786 --> 02:05:35,310
Uh, he had a, uh,
2373
02:05:35,963 --> 02:05:37,965
bizarre history.
2374
02:05:38,661 --> 02:05:41,838
I think it took
some hindsight to, uh,
2375
02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:47,496
clearly determine that Oswald
was within the standards
2376
02:05:47,540 --> 02:05:52,762
that they were, uh, looking for
for a potential threat.
2377
02:05:53,328 --> 02:05:56,984
The two main cover-ups
by the CIA and the FBI
2378
02:05:57,550 --> 02:05:59,464
had nothing to do
with the Warren Commission.
2379
02:06:00,074 --> 02:06:03,860
Both agencies were trying
to protect themselves.
2380
02:06:04,818 --> 02:06:07,821
[David Slawson]
Clarence Kelley,
who later became FBI Director
2381
02:06:07,864 --> 02:06:11,738
after Hoover,
says almost literally in his,
2382
02:06:11,781 --> 02:06:15,219
uh, in fact he does say it
literally in his memoirs,
2383
02:06:15,655 --> 02:06:21,922
is that if the Dallas Office
of the FBI had known
2384
02:06:22,313 --> 02:06:26,361
what was known elsewhere
in the FBI's files,
2385
02:06:27,014 --> 02:06:29,669
the President
would not have died
2386
02:06:29,712 --> 02:06:33,237
in Dallas
on November 22nd, 1963.
2387
02:06:33,934 --> 02:06:38,547
And, uh,
that's my opinion, too, now.
2388
02:06:42,072 --> 02:06:44,118
[suspenseful music]
2389
02:06:45,075 --> 02:06:49,427
[Brendan]
In 1991, Oliver Stone's
filmJFK was released.
2390
02:06:49,863 --> 02:06:51,691
The film dramatized the idea
2391
02:06:51,734 --> 02:06:54,345
that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy.
2392
02:06:54,781 --> 02:06:58,132
To make matters worse, a study
guide was sent to educators
2393
02:06:58,175 --> 02:07:00,743
in conjunction
with the film's release,
2394
02:07:00,787 --> 02:07:03,572
reinforcing
the idea of conspiracy.
2395
02:07:04,268 --> 02:07:07,141
Many educators now teach
the assassination
2396
02:07:07,184 --> 02:07:09,578
as an unsolved,
controversial crime,
2397
02:07:09,622 --> 02:07:12,407
exactly what Judge Griffin
and I try to combat
2398
02:07:12,450 --> 02:07:13,756
when we go into schools.
2399
02:07:14,278 --> 02:07:16,541
The film did, however,
spur the release
2400
02:07:16,585 --> 02:07:19,283
of assassination records
that had been sealed.
2401
02:07:20,415 --> 02:07:24,027
99.9% of the Warren
Commission records
2402
02:07:24,071 --> 02:07:26,769
and the House Select Committee,
uh, records
2403
02:07:26,813 --> 02:07:29,598
have been released for review
by the American people.
2404
02:07:29,642 --> 02:07:32,819
Now what about
the one tenth of one percent
2405
02:07:32,862 --> 02:07:35,473
that still have not been,
uh, released?
2406
02:07:35,952 --> 02:07:38,346
I spoke to G. Robert Blakey,
2407
02:07:38,389 --> 02:07:40,870
the Chief Counsel
of the House Select Committee,
2408
02:07:40,914 --> 02:07:45,222
and also to Judge John Tunheim,
2409
02:07:45,266 --> 02:07:48,704
the Chief Counsel
for the Assassination Records
Review Board.
2410
02:07:48,748 --> 02:07:53,927
They both assured me
that their staff saw 100%
2411
02:07:53,970 --> 02:07:56,973
of the records
in their unredacted form,
2412
02:07:57,931 --> 02:07:59,019
100%.
2413
02:07:59,062 --> 02:08:01,630
And there was no smoking gun.
2414
02:08:02,805 --> 02:08:05,547
["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March"
by Beethoven]
2415
02:08:16,906 --> 02:08:20,170
If we think it takes some
really extraordinary person
2416
02:08:20,214 --> 02:08:23,696
or extraordinary circumstances
to kill a president,
2417
02:08:24,044 --> 02:08:26,481
then we're not able
to protect the president.
2418
02:08:27,569 --> 02:08:30,659
The tremendous irony here
is that most of these people
2419
02:08:30,703 --> 02:08:32,617
love and revere JFK,
2420
02:08:33,270 --> 02:08:35,882
and yet they've devoted
a good part of their life
2421
02:08:35,925 --> 02:08:38,754
desperately trying to exonerate
Lee Harvey Oswald,
2422
02:08:38,798 --> 02:08:42,889
the very person who brutally
murdered their hero JFK.
2423
02:08:42,932 --> 02:08:47,241
For some people, being told,
"This is the evidence we have.
2424
02:08:47,284 --> 02:08:50,592
This is our conclusion,"
um, is sufficient,
2425
02:08:51,027 --> 02:08:55,118
um, knowing that there are
lots of coincidences
2426
02:08:55,162 --> 02:08:57,730
that are nothing
but coincidence.
2427
02:08:58,165 --> 02:09:03,431
There are a lot
of other people for whom
the notion that huge events
2428
02:09:03,474 --> 02:09:07,391
like a presidential
assassination can occur, um,
2429
02:09:08,349 --> 02:09:11,744
really as a circumstantial
coincidental matter,
2430
02:09:12,092 --> 02:09:14,964
Oswald happening
to be in the Depository,
2431
02:09:15,008 --> 02:09:18,272
the path of the parade
happening to go that way,
2432
02:09:18,315 --> 02:09:21,231
all the other things that
combine to produce an event,
2433
02:09:21,275 --> 02:09:24,365
to lots of people,
that's very disturbing.
2434
02:09:24,844 --> 02:09:28,195
Um, they find it
much more acceptable
2435
02:09:28,238 --> 02:09:30,414
to believe that there's
a conspiracy,
2436
02:09:30,458 --> 02:09:34,375
because if there's a conspiracy,
at least someone planned it.
2437
02:09:34,767 --> 02:09:38,466
It wasn't a random coincidence.
2438
02:09:39,162 --> 02:09:43,819
They say the only real predictor
of future behavior
2439
02:09:44,472 --> 02:09:46,082
is past behavior.
2440
02:09:46,691 --> 02:09:51,348
And no one but Marina knew
that his past behavior
2441
02:09:51,392 --> 02:09:53,568
included trying
to shoot somebody.
2442
02:09:54,787 --> 02:09:56,484
[shakily]
Too bad we didn't know.
2443
02:10:00,749 --> 02:10:02,098
when I read, as I do,
2444
02:10:02,142 --> 02:10:03,578
that there were certain facts
2445
02:10:03,621 --> 02:10:05,449
that were not given
to the Commission,
2446
02:10:05,493 --> 02:10:07,625
that they didn't find out
about this or that
2447
02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:10,063
or the other thing,
I read those with interest.
2448
02:10:10,106 --> 02:10:11,891
But I ask myself this question.
2449
02:10:12,282 --> 02:10:15,372
I say, "Alright.
Now you have new information,
2450
02:10:15,764 --> 02:10:17,592
uh, that was not there.
2451
02:10:17,635 --> 02:10:20,464
Does that information
make it more likely
2452
02:10:21,726 --> 02:10:25,034
that there was someone
other than Lee Harvey Oswald
2453
02:10:25,078 --> 02:10:27,428
and the others named in the--
th-- at the report,
2454
02:10:27,471 --> 02:10:29,256
does it make the report likely,
2455
02:10:29,299 --> 02:10:31,736
in its overall conclusions,
to be false?
2456
02:10:32,172 --> 02:10:35,262
Or, if you had this balancing,
which you have to have,
2457
02:10:35,305 --> 02:10:37,655
would you say you still believe
that it is true?"
2458
02:10:37,699 --> 02:10:41,050
Yes, it is true. Because
with all that information,
2459
02:10:42,008 --> 02:10:43,313
adding it altogether,
2460
02:10:43,748 --> 02:10:45,925
it does not show, in my opinion,
2461
02:10:46,316 --> 02:10:49,102
that it is more likely
that something else happened
2462
02:10:49,145 --> 02:10:52,018
of significance
than what they say happened.
2463
02:10:53,410 --> 02:10:55,586
And if anything had come out
2464
02:10:56,500 --> 02:11:00,461
in intervening period,
which would, in my opinion,
2465
02:11:00,504 --> 02:11:03,681
have caused anyone of us
to have said,
2466
02:11:04,291 --> 02:11:05,988
"No, Oswald didn't do it."
2467
02:11:06,510 --> 02:11:10,688
Uh, or, "Oswald was involved
in a conspiracy."
2468
02:11:11,254 --> 02:11:15,128
Or, uh, that someone else was
involved in the conspiracy,
2469
02:11:15,171 --> 02:11:18,479
but not Oswald,
similarly for Ruby...
2470
02:11:20,785 --> 02:11:23,310
Everybody I knew
who worked on that staff
2471
02:11:23,353 --> 02:11:25,878
would've stood up at this point,
not just me,
2472
02:11:26,269 --> 02:11:29,142
but everybody I knew
that would've-- woul-- wo--
stood up on the--
2473
02:11:29,751 --> 02:11:32,319
stood up today and said,
"This was a mistake
2474
02:11:32,362 --> 02:11:34,669
and we've got to go
and correct it."
2475
02:11:35,191 --> 02:11:37,324
what more can you do
to convince them?
2476
02:11:37,715 --> 02:11:40,544
And the fact is
that there're people
2477
02:11:40,588 --> 02:11:42,764
that will never be convinced.
2478
02:11:42,807 --> 02:11:44,548
And it-- and that's true,
2479
02:11:44,984 --> 02:11:47,029
uh, whether we're talking
about the assassination
2480
02:11:47,073 --> 02:11:48,422
or we're talking
about climate weather,
2481
02:11:48,465 --> 02:11:50,250
or we're talking about, uh,
2482
02:11:50,293 --> 02:11:52,948
measles vaccinations or,
or whatever.
2483
02:11:53,340 --> 02:11:55,168
And it's, it's frustrating,
2484
02:11:55,211 --> 02:11:57,953
because it does
strike me at least
2485
02:11:57,997 --> 02:11:59,999
as being completely irrational.
2486
02:12:01,348 --> 02:12:05,569
Ironically, the agency's,
I think, legitimate decision
2487
02:12:05,613 --> 02:12:07,615
not to tell
the Warren Commission
2488
02:12:07,658 --> 02:12:10,096
about its anti-Castro activities
2489
02:12:10,835 --> 02:12:14,709
possibly did more to harm
the Warren Commission's
credibility
2490
02:12:14,752 --> 02:12:16,885
than any other thing
the agency did
2491
02:12:16,929 --> 02:12:18,452
or, in this case, didn't do.
2492
02:12:19,018 --> 02:12:23,674
The concealment
of evidence from the Commission
2493
02:12:24,284 --> 02:12:27,069
by the FBI and by the CIA
2494
02:12:27,548 --> 02:12:30,768
inescapably causes people
2495
02:12:30,812 --> 02:12:32,814
to distrust
the Commission itself.
2496
02:12:32,857 --> 02:12:34,468
Once you have...
2497
02:12:37,558 --> 02:12:40,735
uh, employees
of the federal government
2498
02:12:40,778 --> 02:12:43,607
lying in an investigation,
2499
02:12:44,478 --> 02:12:47,350
you undermine that investigation
in a major way.
2500
02:12:47,394 --> 02:12:49,831
So it was terrible
what they did,
2501
02:12:49,874 --> 02:12:52,312
and if there's any lesson
to be learned out of this,
2502
02:12:52,921 --> 02:12:55,402
you know,
you got to tell the truth
2503
02:12:56,620 --> 02:13:00,233
and then got to deal with--
i-- if it's going to hurt you
in some way,
2504
02:13:00,276 --> 02:13:01,364
you got to deal with it.
2505
02:13:01,408 --> 02:13:04,454
[suspenseful instrumental music]
2506
02:13:08,937 --> 02:13:11,896
Th-- the Warren Commission
report became
2507
02:13:11,940 --> 02:13:14,421
more and more, uh, challenged,
2508
02:13:14,769 --> 02:13:16,727
uh, through the decade
and subsequently,
2509
02:13:16,771 --> 02:13:19,165
as we lived in a life
of the Vietnam War,
2510
02:13:19,208 --> 02:13:22,603
assassinations
of Reverend King and the, uh,
2511
02:13:23,299 --> 02:13:25,910
Senator Kennedy, civil strife,
2512
02:13:25,954 --> 02:13:27,738
more presidential commissions
2513
02:13:27,782 --> 02:13:30,350
looking at these issues,
Watergate,
2514
02:13:30,785 --> 02:13:33,657
uh, I-- I think there is
an underlying distrust
2515
02:13:33,701 --> 02:13:36,617
of government institutions
and I think people, the--
2516
02:13:36,660 --> 02:13:39,663
I have to reconcile myself
to the fact that that distrust
2517
02:13:40,186 --> 02:13:41,752
applied to the Warren Commission
2518
02:13:41,796 --> 02:13:44,712
at the beginning
of this tumultuous decade
2519
02:13:44,755 --> 02:13:47,628
and, uh, and that distrust
remains today.
2520
02:13:47,671 --> 02:13:51,066
So this is one of the real
tragedies in this country,
2521
02:13:51,110 --> 02:13:55,810
the loss of trust
and faith in the government.
2522
02:13:56,376 --> 02:13:59,944
The belief that "Can we
really trust the government?"
2523
02:14:00,467 --> 02:14:03,339
When the trust and confidence
of the American people
2524
02:14:04,079 --> 02:14:07,039
in their government
is undermined to the extent
2525
02:14:07,082 --> 02:14:10,738
that they believe
that the government
2526
02:14:10,781 --> 02:14:13,436
is an accessory after the fact
to the President's murder
2527
02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:15,612
in the sense that they're
concealing the truth,
2528
02:14:16,091 --> 02:14:18,963
uh, from them,
this has to have had
2529
02:14:19,007 --> 02:14:21,879
a deleterious effect
upon the nation's psyche.
2530
02:14:23,142 --> 02:14:27,102
For me, that is the lasting
tragedy of the assassination.
2531
02:14:27,755 --> 02:14:30,801
It's become a signpost
for the end of trust
in our government.
2532
02:14:31,367 --> 02:14:33,108
Yet, when you think about it,
2533
02:14:33,152 --> 02:14:36,155
our system persevered
and moved forward
2534
02:14:36,198 --> 02:14:39,723
in spite of the cover-ups
and destroyed evidence.
2535
02:14:41,290 --> 02:14:45,294
The legacy of President Kennedy
is not failed idealism,
2536
02:14:46,165 --> 02:14:49,864
but a strong harvest of seeds
that took root and grew.
2537
02:14:50,343 --> 02:14:53,433
In fact, Progressivism thrived.
2538
02:14:54,347 --> 02:14:57,001
Less than one year
after President Kennedy's death,
2539
02:14:57,306 --> 02:15:00,483
Congress passed sweeping
civil rights legislation
2540
02:15:00,527 --> 02:15:03,704
and soon life changing
domestic policies,
2541
02:15:03,747 --> 02:15:05,662
such as The Great Society,
2542
02:15:05,706 --> 02:15:07,969
including Medicare and Medicaid.
2543
02:15:08,970 --> 02:15:12,016
In 1967,
Thurgood Marshall became
2544
02:15:12,060 --> 02:15:15,019
the first African American
Supreme Court Justice.
2545
02:15:15,585 --> 02:15:18,110
Within six years
of the assassination,
2546
02:15:18,675 --> 02:15:20,068
we landed on the moon.
2547
02:15:20,851 --> 02:15:22,331
By the 1970s,
2548
02:15:22,679 --> 02:15:25,160
key facts concealed
from the Warren Commission
2549
02:15:25,204 --> 02:15:27,771
by the CIA and FBI
became public.
2550
02:15:28,772 --> 02:15:30,034
So the system worked.
2551
02:15:31,601 --> 02:15:34,909
The danger of adhering
to endless conspiracy theories
2552
02:15:35,475 --> 02:15:37,346
is that it makes
people apathetic
2553
02:15:37,390 --> 02:15:39,392
and leads them
to poor decision making.
2554
02:15:40,306 --> 02:15:43,874
Maybe it's time to view
the history of the assassination
with a critical eye
2555
02:15:44,353 --> 02:15:48,357
and to separate facts
from speculation.
2556
02:15:49,576 --> 02:15:51,317
And maybe it's time to pause
2557
02:15:52,361 --> 02:15:54,494
and honor a group of young men
2558
02:15:54,842 --> 02:15:58,628
for which
truth was the only client.
2559
02:16:08,247 --> 02:16:11,250
["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March"
by Beethoven]
2560
02:16:30,878 --> 02:16:33,576
It's a strange feeling.
The life goes on and,
2561
02:16:34,011 --> 02:16:36,362
you know, in another 20,
30 years, uh,
2562
02:16:36,405 --> 02:16:38,102
you know, we'll,
we'll all be gone.
2563
02:16:38,451 --> 02:16:40,888
And we wonder,
as Burt was saying,
2564
02:16:40,931 --> 02:16:42,977
you know, how people are going
to look back on it then.
2565
02:16:43,543 --> 02:16:47,286
We're very satisfied that we had
done what we were asked to do
2566
02:16:47,329 --> 02:16:50,550
and that we had pursued it,
we had come up with a credible,
2567
02:16:50,941 --> 02:16:52,813
uh, reliable explanation.
2568
02:16:53,161 --> 02:16:54,206
And, uh,
2569
02:16:54,815 --> 02:16:58,949
I-- I still take a pride
in what we did
2570
02:16:59,428 --> 02:17:03,432
and think that despite
all the criticism
and other theories,
2571
02:17:03,780 --> 02:17:06,566
uh, a-- as Warren himself said,
2572
02:17:06,609 --> 02:17:08,959
history will remember us
as having been right.
2573
02:17:10,483 --> 02:17:15,270
I certainly am
just as certain now as I--
as I was then,
2574
02:17:15,314 --> 02:17:17,403
that, uh,
both those things are true.
2575
02:17:17,446 --> 02:17:19,796
Ho-- Oswald was the only shooter
2576
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:21,233
and there's no conspiracy.
2577
02:17:22,886 --> 02:17:25,367
The facts that have
been disclosed since
our investigation
2578
02:17:25,411 --> 02:17:27,804
that should have been
disclosed to me,
2579
02:17:28,327 --> 02:17:32,983
uh, have shown nothing
about that there was
a conspiracy,
2580
02:17:33,419 --> 02:17:37,814
and most of it
have showed affirmatively
that there was not.
2581
02:17:38,946 --> 02:17:42,602
This was not a trial,
this was not a court proceeding.
2582
02:17:42,645 --> 02:17:44,691
This was a quest for the truth.
2583
02:17:45,344 --> 02:17:47,694
That, that-- and,
and I raise this
2584
02:17:47,737 --> 02:17:49,696
when I talk to lawyers
and I said,
2585
02:17:49,739 --> 02:17:52,307
"You know, trials are not
a quest for the truth,
2586
02:17:52,655 --> 02:17:55,049
the-- they're a battle
of who's going to win."
2587
02:17:55,397 --> 02:17:58,792
And, uh, and one of the things
that lawyers try to do
2588
02:17:58,835 --> 02:18:02,839
is conceal anything that might
harm their side of the case.
2589
02:18:03,405 --> 02:18:05,625
But we were engaged
in something that I think
2590
02:18:05,668 --> 02:18:07,017
was better than a trial.
2591
02:18:08,584 --> 02:18:12,719
There's also
the personal CYA factor.
2592
02:18:13,328 --> 02:18:17,419
And, uh, that's ingrained
in human nature.
2593
02:18:17,463 --> 02:18:22,685
Uh, certainly an element
when we see what the FBI
withheld from us,
2594
02:18:22,729 --> 02:18:28,038
when you see, uh, the testimony
of the director of the FBI,
2595
02:18:28,082 --> 02:18:30,998
who just absolutely out and out,
2596
02:18:31,041 --> 02:18:33,522
unquestionably
lied to the Commission,
2597
02:18:33,566 --> 02:18:36,917
uh, to protect himself,
protect his agency.
2598
02:18:38,092 --> 02:18:42,618
And, uh, that's a human factor,
2599
02:18:42,662 --> 02:18:44,141
human frailty,
2600
02:18:44,185 --> 02:18:46,709
that, uh,
has got to be recognized
2601
02:18:46,753 --> 02:18:48,929
and we, we deal with it
as best we can,
2602
02:18:48,972 --> 02:18:52,106
but it's, it's not something
that's going to go away.
2603
02:18:54,326 --> 02:18:59,026
Belief in conspiracies
is exciting,
2604
02:18:59,940 --> 02:19:03,160
far more exciting
than the truth could be.
2605
02:19:04,074 --> 02:19:07,513
What they want
to hear is attacks,
2606
02:19:07,861 --> 02:19:09,863
that's where the excitement is.
2607
02:19:09,906 --> 02:19:11,255
That's what they like.
2608
02:19:11,299 --> 02:19:13,214
That's what feeds
their paranoia.
2609
02:19:14,998 --> 02:19:19,655
I am grateful to those of you
who have devoted
2610
02:19:19,699 --> 02:19:24,356
so much of the post-report time
to defending it.
2611
02:19:24,747 --> 02:19:28,490
Uh, I haven't, and, uh,
2612
02:19:29,317 --> 02:19:31,624
uh, I'm glad you did.
2613
02:19:31,667 --> 02:19:36,672
["Symphony No. 3, Funeral March"
by Beethoven]
201408
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