Original subtitles

-♪ I've been thinking about... ♪ [Glass squeaking]

♪ And the way it used to sway ♪ [Glass clinks]

♪ When the mattress springs were squealing ♪

[Thud] ♪ And the roaches ran away ♪

[Bottle cap pops] ♪ Gone to Memphis ♪

-Well, the good thing is that modern science

has a medication for any condition...

[Sniffs] ...except stupid.

[Glasses clink in distance]

♪♪

-♪ Hey, everybody, have you heard the news? ♪

♪ Joe Bob is back in town ♪

♪ He's over at the drive-in, hanging around ♪

♪ Watching crazy movies, so come on down ♪

♪ To Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ Blood, beasties, boobies, and more ♪

♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's a spooky good time with monsters and ghosts ♪

♪ Crazy, kooky fun with the world's greatest host ♪

♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's gonna be legendary ♪

♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's gonna be very scary ♪

♪ Joe Bob's "Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ Let's go ♪

♪♪

[TV static]

-Darcy, I would like to invite you

to go with me on a journey.

-I'm packed and ready to go.

-A journey into a universe of dire despair

and random violence.

-I know.

-What do you know? I have about 30 more adjectives

I'm gonna lay on you before we do this.

-We're showing "Mad God" tonight.

I know. -You know, if you ask people

the question, "What is 'Mad God' about?"

Well, I'm gonna ask you, what is "Mad God" about?

-I know it took 30 years to make.

-Exactly. That's what everybody says.

30 years in the making. But what's it about?

-I honestly don't know.

-Well, if you ask this question at a film festival,

there will be critics there stretching for ways

to pigeonhole it, you know?

But none of their descriptions make any sense, you know?

"Oh, yeah, Joe Bob,

it's a Kafkaesque, biomechanical,

steampunk fever dream, you know."

Fuck you. -[Laughs]

-So it's just -- it's indescribable.

-Well, what's the -- all right, what's the plot?

-It has no plot.

-It has a plot, it has a plot.

I think it's just a plot you can't really follow...

-[Laughs]

-...because it changes so quickly

and in such bizarre ways.

But, uh -- All right, I'll tell you what.

I'm gonna read some words that have been used

by professional critics... -Okay.

-...to describe "Mad God."

And you give me a yay or nay,

according to whether you agree with these words or not.

-Let's do it. -And by the way,

this is, um, animation night on the "Last Drive-in."

We've never done this before, and we're starting off

with the stop-motion animation feature, "Mad God."

-You're welcome. -How many feature-length movies

have there been that are not just animated,

but stop-motion animated, feature-length?

-Wow. Honestly, not that many.

I really love "Nightmare Before Christmas."

-"Nightmare Before Christmas."

Supposedly that Guillermo del Toro version

of "Pinocchio" is stop-motion.

But is it really? Is that really pure stop motion?

-I don't think so.

I think it's a combo of stop motion and CGI.

-So anyway, it's animation night on the "Last Drive-in"

featuring Darcy the Mail Girl as your conduit

and your sounding board and your tutor

and your counselor here to field any and all questions

about stop-motion animation.

And you know what? Go ahead and put up a poll --

put up a poll on social. -You love your polls, man.

-What's the greatest stop-motion feature ever made?

Because I think there are about 15 of them,

like "Wallace and Gromit."

That was real stop motion, right?

-Yeah, I think it was.

Oh, and "James and the Giant Peach."

My son used to watch that on -- on repeat like months at a time.

-Really? -Yeah.

-And that was stop motion? -Yeah, it is.

-"James and the Giant Peach"? -Yeah.

-All right. So send Darcy your e-mails,

your tweets, your Instas, your stop-motion shorts

that you made in your attic when you were 10 years old.

-Yes, please. -And then our second movie

tonight is "Perfect Blue"... -Yay!

-...the first film of Satoshi Kon,

the Japanese animator who many believe changed

the whole playing field for animation

when he released this film in 1997.

So we actually have tonight two of what are considered

the most innovative animation films

of the last half century,

and what do they have in common, Darcy?

-I'm honestly not sure,

because one of them has an actual story, so...

-I think horror is actually what they have in common.

-Okay, fine. [Chuckles] -But what they have in common

is that after watching either of them,

you probably need a shower. -Okay, fair.

-[Chuckles] So don't bother to shower after watching "Mad God,"

'cause you're gonna need to lather up

again after "Perfect Blue," so.

But for "Mad God", we have something extra.

-Yes, we do.

-We have Phil Tippett -- is here.

-Yeah! Whoo! -Phil Tippett is in the house.

The guy who did special effects on the first three

"Star Wars" movies,

the guy who ran the creatures crew

at Industrial Light and Magic for many years,

the guy who did the dinosaurs for "Jurassic Park."

-Amazing. -How many Academy Awards

does Phil have?

-Two Oscars and six nominations. -All right.

Pretty much the world's leading authority on both --

actually on both practical effects,

and he's a practical effects guy,

but he's also an authority on digital effects,

because he learned it.

And Phil is the guy who spent 30 years making "Mad God."

And so what we're gonna do

is we're gonna bring him out here.

We're gonna strap him to the chair,

and we're not gonna let him go

until he tells us the plot of "Mad God."

-Good plan. -Okay.

Unfortunately, there's no way to scare him,

because no matter how you threaten him,

he can tell you something grosser and more terrifying

than whatever you had in mind. -[Chuckles]

-The guy creates, you know, these vicious creatures

that if you put one of these creatures

in a Chuck Norris movie,

every single kickboxer in the film

would just say, "Okay, that's it.

I quit. Run for the woods," you know, 'cause --

-It's true.

And if you see anything resembling a hospital

or medical personnel, prepare to be disgusted.

-That bothered even you, those hospital scenes.

-Oh, no. I love being disgusted.

-Oh. [Laughs] -[Chuckles]

-As do many of our viewers. -Yes.

-So, Darcy, before I introduce the movie,

I still want to read some of these words...

-Oh, yes. -...that critics have used

to describe it,

and you tell me if you disagree or not.

-All right, let's do it.

-Macabre. -Yes.

-Grotesque. -Definitely.

-Bizarre.

-Oh, yes, all of it's bizarre.

-Post-apocalyptic.

-Maybe? The movie is full of apocalypses,

so I don't think you need the "post" part of it.

-Okay, that's even better -- apocalyptic.

-There you go.

-A lawless world of faceless drones

subjected to mindless cruelty.

-True, but it's definitely more than that.

-A religion of nihilism?

-Yes. -A purgatory full

of cosmic baby's dream logic

and hellish landscapes populated with brutal killers.

-That's a good one, yes.

-A decimated world of monstrous mutants ground up

by the machinery of war and commerce.

-Well, yes, I guess. [Chuckles]

-A dystopian, apocalyptic,

alternate universe of the infant sacrifice,

endless torture, and sickening nastiness.

-Correct on all counts.

-A mesmerizing cornucopia of madness.

-Maybe not mesmerizing, but yes.

-[Chuckles] Okay. -[Chuckles]

-Um...

Dieselpunk meets Eldritch Horror?

-I think so.

-I don't know what that means. What does that mean?

-Well, Eldritch Horror just means H.P. Lovecraft

and dieselpunk is like some kind of sci-fi genre.

-So it means sci-fi with old technology.

Is that... -Maybe?

-...what they're going for? All right.

Fuck you, dieselpunk. -[Laughs]

-Phantasmagoric abstract nightmare

with electrocuted brains and totalitarian slave colonies

where gruesome creatures mindlessly exterminate

Giacometti-like dwarf soldiers made of human feces.

-Fuck you, dieselpunk. -[Laughs]

Right?

Right? You know what I noticed about all of these?

No verbs. No verbs in their description.

It's just nouns so they can tell you what things look like,

but not what happens.

That's why we have a team of wranglers

ready to hog-tie Phil Tippett

until he tells us what's going on.

So are you ready to do this thing?

-Let the grossness begin. -All right.

-The word "mad" in "Mad God" has two meanings.

He's an angry god, and he's a crazy god.

And I think what may be going on here is that god is so insane

that somebody, or maybe god himself,

sends an assassin down to the depths of hell

to blow up everything so the world can start over.

But meanwhile, a lot of stuff happens in between,

and most of it is weird and demented and violent

and complicated and nightmarish and bleak

and gruesome and eerie.

And after a few minutes,

you actually forget you're watching animation.

That's the good thing about this.

-[Chuckles] -You really do forget

you're watching animation.

But I think the best way to describe it

is that it's the destruction of the world,

followed by a descent into hell,

which looks a lot like things we're familiar with.

And hell has no bottom.

It just goes deeper and deeper and deeper

so that when the assassin gets down

to where he thinks he's at the bottom,

he gets killed and recycled -- doesn't he?

-Probably. -I-I think.

-[Chuckles] -And he gives birth, I think,

right, to a baby that gets ground up by a holy surgeon

so he can create some kind of cosmic transformation

of the universe.

And I should have asked you in advance,

but what kind of popcorn do you recommend, Darcy?

If you know what I mean. -[Laughs]

-I think you do. -Shrooms.

-Mushrooms? -Yes.

-Really? See, I was thinking LSD.

Uh, thi-- this is that freaky.

-That could be a little dangerous.

-Okay. As far as legal mind-altering substances --

we do this sometimes --

we are recommending Robbers Roost,

very light whiskey from Utah.

And in the progressive states, we recommend a high CBD,

low THC strain, okay?

We're recommending Susie Q.

from Northern Roots Nursery in Morrisville, Vermont.

So we think either choice will bring your brain cells

into that perfect balance

where you still can't understand what's going on,

but you will believe that you understand what's going on.

All right?

One thing I can say for sure about "Mad God"

is that it's not like any other movie.

It's its own genre.

And it might be the most brilliant work of art

since Picasso painted "Weeping Woman" in 1937.

And then again, it might be clinical insanity

at 24 frames a second.

So you'll see what I mean as I go through the drive-in totals.

We have 138 dead bodies, one Tower of Babel destruction,

Leviticus deity cursing, two eyeball closeups,

one giant cervix,

one eye poked out,

multiple shit-shoveling,

space-cannon violence,

canyon of stone idols,

calcified worms, hell...

[Laughter]

...pond of radioactive waste, frozen stalactite people,

legless mummy-head crawling creature,

groaning simian monster,

twitching behemoth electrocution,

bloodsucking, fluidsucking,

organsucking, deformed vicious salamander,

masturbating pocked roadside-woman,

horned wolf-creatures, skinny hypnotized

undead machine-people,

skeletal-creature chain gang

getting Nazi-style brain injections.

Slave-zombie altar building, electronic-eye satellite,

giant-penis assembly line,

pit of fire, predatory-dinosaur

weakling stomping,

skeletal zombies,

mutant-animal electrocution,

bullwhip-wielding Lash LaRue mutants

slicing zombies in half,

monster-baby totalitarianism,

one spaceship-adventuring gas-mask-wearing assassin

with a diving bell,

audience participation surgery,

bloody body-slicing,

chest cavity ripping with organ extraction,

giant-shovel-creature brawling with boil-faced dwarf

brain electrocution and aneurysm vomit...

-Wow. -...body-part spewing,

sea of skulls on crosses,

laser-blast warzone with mushroom cloud,

intestine extraction, stabbing, boot crushing,

worm slithering,

baling-wire humanoids having tea,

plump nekkid stag-reel porn,

body-part sweeping, baby eating,

skull drilling,

ceremonial baby-smashing with a giant waffle iron,

microscopic virus made of glowing jelly,

painful handjob on a minotaur,

rusty motorcycle-chase through the land of broken temples,

ruined deserts, s-steaming craters,

baby-guts gold-dust explosion

causing mountains to move, meteors to explode,

and flying saucers to take off over a deep inferno

where amoebas and floating bubbles and pools of liquid

and single-celled organisms and galaxies of stars

and fetuses and golden bubbles

cause giant skyscrapers to be quickly built,

with radio antennas on top of the tallest building...

-Wow. -...graveyard skeletons

run through with sticks,

weird birds in thunderstorms,

zombie-capping fluid creature, military wall-battering,

graffiti-artist sniper fire,

skeleton-head debris rain,

bubbles gurgling on the surface of a planet

that may be the face of a fetus inside a test tube,

causing clocks to run backward in a toy garden,

followed by a cuckoo announcing the end of the world

and the establishment of a new totalitarian cult --

I think... [Laughter]

...gnarled-crone weaving,

gratuitous orchestral fanfare, random ruins,

leg-stump clever fu,

parchment map fu, giant hacksaw fu,

steamroller fu,

primeval forest fu, intravenous fu,

malpractice fu,

Nosferatu fu,

tarantula fu,

"Drive-in" Academy Award nominations for --

Alex Cox,

as the man with insanely long fingernails and toenails

who reminds us that at least one human being is still alive,

and Phil Tippett, the writer, director

and mad man behind "Mad God."

Four stars. Joe Bob says, "Check it out."

-Wow. Dear. -Okay.

-Yes, please clap. That was amazing.

-Weirdest "Drive-in" totals ever.

-You did an amazing job on that.

-Well, you gotta try, right?

'Cause we're in the business of describing things,

analyzing how they work.

You have to make an attempt.

You know how bad it got, though.

I'm reading all these reviews of the movie

from when it premiered at the Locarno Film Festival

in Switzerland,

and there were not one but two words in the descriptions

that I had never heard before in my life.

You know, I'm an English major, I'm a writer.

I've got somewhat of a vocabulary.

[Laughter] Here are these words

that make me feel like I'm in fourth grade.

I'm looking up new words in the "Merriam-Webster," you know?

So anyway,

one of the words I should -- should have known this word.

One of the words was "spolia."

And spolia is where you take the stones from a building

that's been torn down and you use it for a new building.

So that's a great word in two senses,

'cause first of all, the movie is constantly doing that.

Things are being ripped apart

and then they're being reborn in some new form.

And secondly, it's what Phil Tippett is doing.

He's taking old technology, meaning stop-motion animation,

and he's creating something entirely new out of it.

So we're about to watch some cool spolia.

And then the second word was, um,

caliginous.

Caliginous.

I had to go to the OED for that one,

because the normal dictionaries just say "misty,"

"dim," "obscure," "dark."

So it's got to be more than that.

I mean, when you have a word that rare and that specific,

it means you're -- you're -- you're going to that word,

'cause misty, dim, obscure, dark --

they don't quite cut it, right?

So the OED cites seven usages of "caliginous"

since -- since the year 1550.

And if you put them all together

and you figure out what they're all aiming at,

it's the atmosphere of a cave.

You're going into a cave

where it's damp and slippery and the light is bad,

and there's something new around every corner.

And it's a little strange and a little mysterious

and a little scary -- it's caliginous.

So this movie is caliginous as fuck.

Is that too much information?

Now... [Laughs]

-What? [Laughs]

-Caliginous should not be confused with "callipygous",

because the first -- the first time I typed it in --

you know, the OED is online now --

so the first time I typed it in,

I guess I got a letter wrong or something.

So the definition of callipygous came up,

and I got confused for a minute,

because that definition is having beautiful buttocks.

-[Laughs] -So really specific word...

-Yes. -...you know what I mean?

It's a useful word.

Not a whole lot of chances to use it in one lifetime.

But, you know, in fact, I missed my chance to say callipygous

when you wore the applause panties

on the Elvira show. -Aw.

-I could have said, "You're such a callipygous mail girl,"

you know? -[Laughs]

-But see, now it's too late,

'cause now that would be obnoxious

sexual harassment if I said to you...

-Aw, you can still say it.

-And still say it, really?

Very fucking callipygous, Darcy.

-Thank you. -Callipygous as fuck.

-One time's probably good.

-Okay, yeah.

♪♪

[TV static]

♪♪

[Crowd cheering in distance]

♪♪

♪♪

[Thunder rumbling]

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[Crowd cheering and thunder rumbling continues]

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[Choir singing]

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[Choir singing continues]

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[Choir singing continues]

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[Zapping]

[Thunder rumbling in distance]

♪♪

[Siren blaring in distance]

♪♪

♪♪

[Clunking]

[Whirring]

[Beep]

[Clanking]

[Blaring continues]

[Whirring]

♪♪

[Whirring]

[Blaring continues]

♪♪

[Firing]

[Whirring and firing continue]

[Explosions]

[Gas gushes]

[Buttons click]

[Rotating knobs]

[Cage rattling in distance]

[Explosions]

[Siren blaring in background]

[Thunder rumbles]

[Lever squeaks, sparks]

[Thunder rumbling]

[Siren blaring in distance ]

♪♪

♪♪

[Shrieking in distance]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Bird chirping]

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[Mud falling]

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[Thud]

[Door squeaks]

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[Footfalls]

[Indistinct conversation in distance]

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[Indistinct conversation continues]

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[Dwarves scream]

[Rustling]

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[Fire crackling]

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[Goggles click]

[Piano playing, knife stabbing]

[Woman chuckling and groaning]

[Playing piano]

[Stabbing continues]

[Woman groaning and laughing]

[Bell ringing]

[Grunting]

[Ringing continues]

[Chittering in distance]

♪♪

[Creature shrieking]

[Thud]

[Shrieking continues]

[Growling in distance]

[Growling]

[Footfalls]

♪♪

-[Sighs]

[Creature growls]

[Man grunting]

[Monster growling]

[Clattering]

[Vocalizing, monster growling]

[Thud]

♪♪

[Monster roars]

[Man shrieks, monster growls, roars]

[Cleaver thudding, monster growling]

[Cleaver thuds]

[Rustling]

♪♪

[Rocks shift]

[Glove squeaks]

[Rocks shift]

[Rocks clattering]

[Thud]

♪♪

[Whirring]

[Footfalls]

[Creaking]

-[Grunting, gargling]

[Water rippling]

[Chittering, tapping]

[Clacking]

[Arm creaking]

[Head creaks]

[Monkey grunting in background]

[Shrieks, door shuts]

♪♪

[Thunder rumbling]

[Fire crackling in background]

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[Footfalls]

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[Door creaks]

[Electric zapping, liquid sloshing in background]

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[Zapping and sloshing continues]

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[Zapping and sloshing continues]

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[Buzzer rings]

[Whirring]

[Splashing]

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♪♪

[Machinery pumping]

♪♪

[Inflating]

[Whirring]

[Inflating continues]

[Pumping continues]

[Inflating]

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[Pumping continues]

[Machinery hissing and thumping]

♪♪

[Whirring and clanking in background]

[Pumping continues]

[Machinery clanking, whirring]

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[Machinery hissing, clanking, whirring]

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[Machine squealing in distance]

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[Squealing and thudding]

[Whirring]

[Metal clinking]

[Whirring]

♪♪

[Whirring]

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[Train chugging]

[Clanking]

[Sizzling]

[Thump]

[Sizzling]

[Thump]

[Man screams]

[Whirring and squeaking]

[Rakes clattering, bodies squishing]

[Object dragging in distance]

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[Rocking]

[Indistinct speech]

[Squeaks, whirring]

[Machine whirring, pulsating tone]

[Whooshing]

♪♪

[Pulley squeaking]

[Machinery whirring]

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[Splashing]

[Whirring, squeaking continue]

[Sploshing, plop]

[Whirring]

[Clunk]

[Rocking]

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[Thumping]

[Thud]

[Dust rustling]

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[Whirring and squeaking in distance]

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♪♪

[Chugging]

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[Spears slashing]

[Board creaking]

[Growling]

[Whirring]

[Train chugging in distance]

[Thumping]

[Chugging]

[Fire roaring]

♪♪

[Thump]

[Whooshing]

[Thump]

[Whirring in distance]

[Hatch creaking]

[Splattering]

[Growling]

[Splishing]

[Whirring]

[Baby babbling on speaker]

[Baby giggling on speaker]

[Whirring]

[Baby babbling on speaker]

[Growling]

[Whip cracking]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Growling]

[Whip cracking]

[Baby babbling on speaker]

[Growling]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Thump]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Zapping]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Fire crackling]

[Babbling]

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[Babbling continues]

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[Baby blowing a raspberry on speaker]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Rustling]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Hatch creaking]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

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[Monster grunting in distance]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Growling]

[Thudding]

[Baby babbling on speaker in background]

[Growling]

[Stomping in distance]

[Hatch creaking]

[TV static]

-Okay, well, I guess they won't be featuring

this movie on a double feature with "Snow White"

at this year's animation festival.

But the sounds, by the way,

those squishies when the cute little gnomes

get mindlessly stomped into extinction,

or the monotonous sounds from the demonic factory

where all the identical, faceless,

brainless workers get electrocuted

or ground into dust, the clanking of the chains,

the machinery, the weird baby sounds,

the atmosphere of that world is courtesy

of one of the greatest sound designers in the business,

Richard Beggs, who won the Academy Award

for "Apocalypse Now,"

still does all of Sofia Coppola's movies.

Um, but the images themselves, the creatures,

the hellish world under the Earth,

those all belong to the mind of Phil Tippett,

who was the king of special effects

back in the golden age of special effects,

working on the first three "Star Wars" movies,

designing things like the battling creature chess game

played by Chewbacca and R2-D2 and the cantina scene.

And then he designed and animated the robots in "RoboCop"

and the dinosaurs in "Jurassic Park"

and the aliens and "Starship Troopers"

and many other movies during the years

when he ran the show at, uh, Industrial Light and Magic.

And all that time, little did we know,

Phil was dreaming of a world where god causes everyone to eat

the flesh of their sons and daughters

and have their carcasses heaped upon lifeless idols

in a desolate, ruined land.

So I can't do this alone, because I only have a vague idea

of everything that's going on in this movie.

So let's bring out the man now to explain it for us,

the special effects legend, the number-one guy under Lucas.

How are you doing, Phil? -Good. Good evening.

[Crowd cheering] -Uh...

You were the number-one guy under Lucas,

number-one guy under Spielberg,

then the number-one guy under Verhoeven.

And you say you learned the most from Verhoeven?

-We were most sympathetic in that we both

more come from, like, a fine-art perspective

as opposed to, you know, George and Steven

are very commercial, you know,

they're -- they're very careful of their empires

and being able to build, you know, uh, momentum,

you know, financially, so, uh.

But Paul doesn't like that kind of, uh, baggage.

-So he's more a "What the fuck, let's do this" guy?

-I mean, you ask Paul, you know,

"Who do you make your movies for?"

And he says, "I make them for me,

you know, and fuck everybody else."

-Yeah. -But, you know, he hopes

they make money.

-Yeah. -But, um, uh...

-Well, he's done okay with that, actually.

-Yeah, sometimes. I mean, "Starship" tanked,

you know, so it was like -- and producer Jon Davison said,

"Yeah, well, we made an R-rated movie for kids, so."

[Laughs] -Well, I mean, it developed

a good reputation later.

-It does, yeah. -I mean, it is definitely

one of the favorites of our audience, so --

-Yeah, I was at a dinner thing

that Daniel Ellsberg happened to be there

and he said, "Phil, that's the best political film

I've seen in the last 10 years." -Really?

Daniel Ellsberg? -Yeah.

-That's great.

You must love the Dutch people, though,

because besides Paul Verhoeven, you -- I've heard you say

that the biggest influence on "Mad God"

is Hieronymus Bosch,

who was, of course the Dutch painter who was the greatest --

I guess he was the greatest creature builder

of the 15th century, right?

How did -- H-How did that happen?

-Uh, well, my dad was an artist, and he had a library of books.

And he saw -- I mean, since I was 5 years old,

I started drawing weird shit,

you know, monsters and spaceships

and a lot of red Crayola for blood, you know?

-Yeah. -And, uh --

-At 5, you were drawing the blood.

-I started doing that, you know.

-Yeah, okay.

-Crayolas at 5 or whatever, and never stopped.

But he saw I was into the monster thing and said,

"Maybe I'll take a look at this."

And it was, like, probably when I was around 10 years old,

you know, and my boi-oi-oing eyes popped out of my head,

"You know, one day if I ever make a movie,

I'm gonna do that," you know?

And I have a lot of those, like, tropes.

-And so you had Hieronymus Bosch in the back of your head

all that time? -Yeah, absolutely.

-Did you notice, Phil, that the triptychs

that Hieronymus Bosch does are not just hell,

he also painted heaven in

"The Garden of Earthly Delights."

You seem focused on hell. -Uh...

Yeah. You know, and that's -- that's a weird thing.

You know, I'm not a depressed guy.

You know, I --

-You're not a pessimist about human nature?

I can see how you could watch this movie and think so.

-I am misanthropic definitely, you know.

But, you know, you always have hope.

-I mean, I would say Lucas and Spielberg

would say their movies are uplifting

or they try to be uplifting.

I'm not sure about Verhoeven, but this film,

"Mad God" is -- is grim.

It's grim. -Really?

-You don't think it's grim?

-I -- I thought it was funny. -[Laughs]

Well, it's funny -- it's funny-grim, you know, so --

-Yeah, it is. I am not an intellectual.

I, you know, I generally don't think very much.

You know, I let whatever come in

and process it through my unconscious,

which was really my guide for "Mad God."

And, uh... -Okay.

-And during that 12-year period,

I dreamt prolifically. I mean, like every single day,

I have these big binders like that

and sometimes either like eight or 10 pages

and, like, uh... -And you remember

your whole dream when you wake up?

-Yeah. -Like a movie, you know,

I could see it. -Yeah.

-And -- And then what happens is you transcribe these things,

so you're interpreting your dream.

And by the nature of, you know, the interpretation,

it's different.

But i-it's the best I could possibly do.

Every 10 or 12 dreams I would go through,

there is, like, um, a statement at the beginning

and then there's, like, kind of a gray area in the middle.

And at the end there's -- there's some kind of

a resolution to the beginning.

-And it's -- -You had -- You had

three-act dreams.

-Exactly. You know --

-And then you turn the dream into a sculpture or a character?

-No, I just left it alone.

And when the film ended, so did my dreams.

-Whoa. -They just -- It was only

for that finite period. -Whoa.

-And, you know, other artists

have -- have had a very similar experience

when they, like, immerse themselves, like...

-Now, you're not talking 30 years, are you...

-No, no, no. -...of having those dreams?

-No, it was -- -You're talking about

from the time you started intensely

working on the film. -Yeah. Yeah.

-You fell in love with stop-motion animation

at a very young age, right? -Yeah.

-The first -- The first time you saw it?

-Yeah, when I was 5,

you know, they were -- "King Kong" on TV.

That's my first memory on a little black-and-white screen.

-Yeah, and you -- and you said, "I want to do that"?

-No, I didn't know what I was looking at.

You know, I just had no idea, but that, you know,

kind of I spurned my interest in dinosaurs as a kid.

And so I did a lot of research,

and it was really kind of an amateur paleontologist.

I made some short films later on after "Return of the Jedi,"

I took a year off

and made a couple of dinosaur stop-motion films.

And so that -- that -- all that kind of made me,

"Oh, there's a filmmaker out there that knows dinosaurs,

so maybe we'll hire you for 'Jurassic Park,'" you know, so.

-But you had actually been mentored

by Ray Harryhausen, right?

-No, no, no. Ray, you know,

Ray was very secretive, you know,

and if you asked him how he did stuff, he was like --

But what was cool about him

was he had the persona of a magician, you know,

And it's like, "I'm not gonna tell you how I do the magic.

That's, you know, you don't need to know that."

-So did he go to his grave

with nobody knowing how he did his --

-Well, he wrote these books.

-Yeah. -And if you asked him,

um, you know, a-a question,

he'd say, you know, "It's in the book," you know.

And occasionally, you'd ask him something,

"Well, how did you do it?" And he'd go like,

"Hmm, I don't remember." [Laughs]

-All right, all right.

Well, we'll get back to your outside influences in a minute,

but right now I'm gonna take a-a -- I'm gonna take a crack

at what's happening in the first 24 minutes of "Mad God."

Um, god is pissed.

Uh, he destroys the biggest architectural project

of all time, the Tower of Babel,

'cause he's an asshole, and, um, he sends an assassin

down to the underworld to blow everything up.

And on the assassin's journey, he sees all kinds of monsters

and deformed creatures mindlessly killing one another

and worshiping false idols. And -- And by the way,

the only reason I know he's an assassin, though,

is that he's called the Assassin.

-Well, hold on there. -Oh, you have a place where --

-Well, you know, god is a metaphorical god.

-Yeah. -And so it's not a he.

It's an it. -Okay.

-It's a force, it's a thing.

And the assassin --

I never thought about it having a sex at all.

I mean, for all I know, it could have been filled with hot air.

You know, it's just a thing.

It's a guide.

It's -- It's my Virgil

that takes the audience,

you know, Dante into hell.

-But the Assassin, though, is sent by god, right?

The -- The -- The it god. -You know what?

I don't know jack shit. -You don't know?

-No. -You don't know

why the assassin -- -If I do know, I'm not saying.

But I-I-I literally -- -You don't know why the Assassin

is an assassin.

-Uh, I needed a name. -Oh, okay.

-I mean, everything has a name. -Okay.

-You know, I mean, I kept everything kind of an oblique --

in an oblique area of my mind, you know,

And, to me, what the film was about --

-But he's definitely carrying weapons,

and he's gonna blow something up.

-He's got a -- you know --

-Did you know he was carrying weapons

when you sent him down there? -Uh...

-Did you know it was carrying weapons when you sent it down?

-That's...yeah.

Well, you know, when I shot it on 35,

you know, 30 years ago, the first couple of shots,

I did the scene, uh, where, you know, he goes into that lab

and there's the -- the monkey

and, you know, some other things.

And there's a shot that you see him

when when he comes down, and it's a wide shot

and the camera's pulling back, and he doesn't have a suitcase.

And I-I didn't see that until, like, when we started

putting the thing together later, I was like,

"Oh, God, I guess I --"

it wasn't an idea yet, you know?

-Oh, okay. -You know, I guess

I just figured in the next shot, you know,

"This thing needs a prop.

What's the prop?"

Well, you know, and then it could do --

it could function in a few ways.

You know, one puts them on a mission.

Um, what -- what mission?

And you assume it's gonna be to blow something up.

What's he gonna blow up? Who -- Who knows, you know?

And then -- but then it also --

when he goes into this land of suitcases,

it evokes, you know, the Holocaust, you know,

and just, you know, people's stuff that was just taken away

and thrown, like, in the garbage.

So there were things like that where I was looking for,

you know, images that evoked something else,

maybe, kind of, sort of. -Right.

Well, if you think anything in the first 24 minutes

was disgusting, or if perhaps you actually vomited

because of any image in the first 24 minutes,

you should probably not watch the rest of the movie,

because it gets worse, right, Phil?

-Yeah. When I when we premiered it at Locarno,

I sat at the back of the theater with the composer, Dan Wool,

because we wanted to see how many people walked out.

And we sat -- sat next to this mother and father

and their two little blond-haired boys, like 8

and 6, whatever, years old.

And, you know, I told the mom, "You know,

I -- I wouldn't bring my kids to see this movie."

And -- And they made it, like, you know,

less than a minute into it.

And they got up and were walking out.

Because it's animation,

they thought, "Oh, it's gonna be Pixar."

And, um, and she was walking out and she said, "You were right."

And then I said what you said, "It gets worse."

[Laughter]

-Okay, roll the movie.

Um...

Back to Hades we go.

Is it Hades? Are we in Hades?

-No, I don't -- I don't know.

-All right. [Laughter]

You know, mad can be taken in two ways.

Is he crazy mad or angry mad?

-A good point.

-You don't know. [Laughs]

All right. You're not Catholic?

-Well, no, no. [Scoffs] -No, okay.

-I'm nothing. -All right,

because I don't think they'd be happy with you.

-I definitely wanted it to play

either way as a question, you know.

-But there's so much visual information

that that's why I'm asking you

these questions, because it's like --

it's like -- it's overwhelming.

It -- It -- It overwhelms your senses.

-Yeah, well, that's, you know, I'm --

I'm overwhelmed by life,

you know, there's no way of getting around it.

-Okay. All right, well, we're gonna figure it out.

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-So, Phil, do you have

some nasty medical malpractice suit in your past? [Laughs]

-No, but, you know,

when you're in the doctor's office

and you're waiting for, like, the cancer diagnosis,

and there's the clock on the wall, it's hell.

-Yeah. -That is really hell for me.

I mean -- -Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

You know, any time your story goes anywhere near a hospital,

a clinic, a surgical theater, and --

and -- and -- and I do mean surgical theater.

You actually have a theater where you have a studio audience

applauding as the Assassin's skull is ripped open with saws.

-Yeah. And I call that the rape scene.

-That's the rape scene?

-Yeah. -Um...

And -- And -- And this is after he gives birth.

He gives birth, right?

Does he give birth?

-No, he's raped first, and then he's anesthetized

and then he's on the table.

-Okay. I've noticed that the only time

anybody laughs or smiles anywhere in the movie

is when they're watching intense pain inflicted on somebody.

-Yeah. Yeah, uh, that's -- that's horrible to me.

-It is horrible. -You know.

-It's your movie, Phil. -Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's just, you know, God awful.

But on the other -- you know,

I have a very dark sense of humor.

And -- And to me, i-it's like, right on that line,

you know, like, when the audience is laughing,

you -- there's this, you know,

kind of impetus to -- to laugh along, you know?

I mean, it didn't exactly work out that way.

-Okay.

So you started shooting this movie in 1987.

-Yeah. -What were you thinking

at the moment you shot the first six minutes

of "Mad God"?

Why did you want to put that six minutes on film?

-Uh, well, I had -- the idea kind of came to me as a vision,

and that's pretty much how I -- I work.

Like I was saying, I just transcribe things.

I mean, I just saw this thing and, um -- and --

and there's really no script.

There's -- There's, like, a tome.

There's like 12 or 15 pages of a tome that isn't the movie.

But it also describes this -- this descent.

The way I visualize it is like there was --

there's, like, a-a kernel

or, like, you know, a sperm and an egg

or something like that

or, like, uh, a piece of iron and -- or a magnet.

And there's, like, all these iron filaments

that are out here.

And then slowly, as I began to understand the --

the, you know, process,

you know, the -- the iron is drawn in and,

you know, th-the thought becomes more complete, uh, to an extent.

Uh, but, you know, I-I actually, like a lot of artists,

don't really know what I'm doing until years later.

You know, I can -- I can look -- -And I'm trying to find

this story. -Yeah.

-And it's like, you know, Picasso,

you know, was asked in an interview, you know,

wh-what he's looking for in his paintings,

and he said, "I do not seek.

I find," you know, and, like, a lot of art --

I mean, it's very different from -- from a, you know,

conventional narrative film

that has -- that has the clear beginning, middle, and an end.

Although this has a -- has a, you know, narrative

through-line in it,

but, um, it doesn't really have nar-- you know.

-Well, you know, in -- in 1987,

you were already a very successful guy.

You'd done some fabulous work on the "Star Wars" movies.

You were the -- You were the big cheese

at Industrial Light and Magic,

and you did a couple of "RoboCop" movies.

So what makes you think, "Okay, here's my next move"?

Were you thinking,

"Here's what I would really rather be doing, or, like,

here's my next move"?

-I'm always looking for the next thing,

the next thing, the next thing.

It's like, "Okay, I'm sick of space aliens.

You know, I hope I don't have to do that anymore.

What's next? It was like, "Oh, a robot. Cool."

You know, a robot who's like -- Oh, enough robots already.

You know, I wonder what I'm gonna do now?

Oh, a dinosaur," you know?

And then it's, "Oh, you know, bugs."

You know, so I've been very lucky that way, you know,

in my professional life,

you know, working for other directors.

Um, and -- -But what was that like?

I mean, well, you're gonna work every day

at Industrial Light and Magic.

Y-Y-You had to go into an office, right?

At -- No? -Well...

-You worked at home? -No, no, no.

There's a-a place.

But it was like a stage, or, you know,

I had a room where I would build stuff

and then go shoot it on the stage.

Um... -Yeah.

-But, you know, back in the day,

you know, there wasn't anybody

that was doing this kind of stuff, really.

So I didn't -- I'm -- I was always a gig worker.

I was never, you know, like, when the job was done at ILM,

it was like, "Sayonara, suckers.

You know, I'm gonna -- I'm going away."

-Okay. -"You just give me a call."

And so I didn't stress at all.

I just like it gave me the time

to work on my own stuff, whatever that was.

I'll go and make a dinosaur movie

and take, you know, six, eight months off, whatever,

and wait for the phone to ring.

So, you know, it was an ideal job to that extent.

-Okay. But you were known for, uh, sculpting

and puppeteering and stop motion

and all these practical effects forms of, uh, movie magic.

And then "Jurassic Park" comes along.

You're the dinosaur guy.

But that's right at the moment when the world is going to CGI,

right? -Yeah.

-How did you make that transition?

Because you were the dinosaur guy on "Jurassic Park."

-My response was over-emotional.

You know, I just felt like --

because a lot of the CG guys kind of treated you --

it was like the old gunslinger thing, you know,

And they wanted to, you know,

kill the old gunslinger, and "We're cool.

And we got --" you know, it was like...

[Mumbling] [Laughter]

It was like, "That ain't no job for man."

-So when you say you were over-emotional,

you mean you felt --

-Well, I felt like -- I felt like

the bomb bay doors had opened, you know, and, um --

-You felt like you were obsolete.

-Y-Yeah. Yeah, for, you know, a few --

Well, I actually got really sick.

I got pneumonia and had to be in bed for a few weeks.

And, yeah, I-I-I took it really hard, and...

-Wow. -But then, you know,

Spielberg's a very, very sweet guy,

you know, and he said,

"No, we really want you on the show, you know,

because you know stuff."

So I was able to help him and David kept going,

you know, like, "Eh, you don't want to do that, you know.

What if you did this? And here's a better dinosaur."

Crichton didn't know what he was talking about, really.

-Why are the dinosaurs in "Jurassic Park One"

better than the dinosaurs in the sequels?

-So we are old-school, you know,

and -- and we were able to bring a lot of practical knowledge

to, you know, um, the movie.

And, you know, to use the -- the gunslinger metaphor I use

is like the, you know, CG guys who's like,

you know, they go like, "Draw,"

and they go like... [Imitating guns]

You know, like, "Well, can you shoot?"

And they're like, "Well, we don't have any bullets."

[Laughter]

-You know...

Well, anyway, they always say that -- that "Mad God" --

while you're doing "Jurassic Park,"

"Mad God's" still in your head, you know?

So they always say "Mad God" was, um, 30 years in the making.

But, I mean, it wasn't really 30 years, was it?

I mean, it was on hold. -Yeah.

I counted it as 30 years.

-You counted it as 30 years. -Yeah. There was a --

-Was it on hold for 20 years 'cause you were so busy?

-It never went on hold.

And I, for the life of me,

cannot understand how -- this thing haunted me, you know.

And so I would, in the evenings, go home

and draw storyboards or do designs.

You know, when I was on location, if there was a break,

you know, I'd take the time off, and I just kept doing this.

-But at some point, though, you have to really start up

and gear up and start making the movie.

And so what caused that? Wa-W-Was there a moment?

-I started in earnest, you know,

making it around 12 or 13 years ago, uh,

and I don't think I could have made that movie

until, like, I was really around 60 years old.

You know, I-I had to be old. I had to be experienced.

-Because you did so much reading and so much study.

-Yeah. No, I-I had -- well, my -- my wife was

in the editorial department of, um, "Amadeus,"

and so we'd go out to dinner with Milos Forman and whatnot.

And there's a young -- -It was Milos Forman?

-Yeah. -Yeah.

-And as a young filmmaker,

I'd ask him, you know, for advice,

and he gave me the best advice I ever got,

which was, you know, the -- the license for me to do

"Mad God," which was -- "If you want to take a good shit,

you have to eat well." [Laughter]

-That was Milos Forman's motto? -Yeah.

-It was like, the more time you put into development,

you know, the better, you know --

and then you soak it in.

I mean, as long as you can soak the thing into your unconscious

so it becomes a part of you, you know,

then you just know, you feel.

It's like having,

you know, a-a navigation, an on-board navigation center.

-So all this time that you're doing "Jurassic Park"

and "Starship Troopers" and other projects,

it's -- it's always percolating in your brain.

-Mm-hmm. Yeah. -Okay.

Well, I want to ask you more about your brain

at the next break.

But right now, let's see where this goes,

because apparently the Assassin, um...

he's toast at this point in the movie.

His -- His -- His part of the story --

-Eh, he's not done. -No, he's not done?

-No, he carries on. -It looks like he's --

-He carries on to the end of the movie.

-Okay. -You know,

and that's where I was saying it's --

the movie, to me, is about process, you know.

And, uh, although I got this great line,

you know, when asked, you know, what "Mad God's" about,

I got it from the producer, Jon Davison.

And when asked, you know, what's the movie about?

He would say, "Well, I would say it's about 82 minutes."

[Laughter]

-Okay, roll the film. Go.

-The reboot -- so, uh, you know, the period of the 12 years

when it got started up again. I was archiving it at my studio

and, uh, some of the guys that had grown up

watching the making of "Star Wars" or "RoboCop"

and stuff like that, they wanted to work with practical stuff.

You know, they wanted to work with models.

-These are people in your studio who want to do practical stuff?

-Yeah, but that ship had sailed.

And, uh, so they -- they had no choice

but to become computer artists.

And, you know, and so they were looking over my shoulder

and going, "What the...is that?"

And they thought it was some kind of,

like, 1940s Czechoslovakian thing.

-Your first six minutes? -Yeah.

-They're looking at your first six minutes,

and they're saying it's a 1940 Czechoslovakian --

-They didn't know what it was. And I said,

"Well, was this project that, you know, I failed on,

and I had to put it to bed," you know.

And so a few of the guys went like,

"Oh, can I, you know -- can we do a shot?"

And I had this -- the Assassin puppet, you know,

left over, 20 years old.

So I did some rebuilding on that and gave it to them

and showed them, you know, here's how you build a set

and here's how you light it and blah, blah, blah.

And, uh, it's just like, "Can we do another shot?

Can we do another shot?"

And then some other people came on and like,

you know, it's like Tom Sawyer and the picket fence thing,

you know?

And -- And then I would give talks locally,

like at the Pacific Film Archives,

and I'd get college students and -- and high-school students,

you know.

"Oh, hey, can I work on this thing?"

And I go, "Sure."

And so what I would do during the week

was I would figure out processes, you know, for them.

First you do this, then you do that,

then you do this, and then you show them.

And on the weekends, you know, I could get like, you know,

10, 12, 15, you know, people to do a lot of the heavy lifting,

because there was no way that movie was gonna get done,

you know, because, well, the way I wanted to get it done

without a lot of man hours attached to it.

And there was one -- one scene where the Assassin

is driving through these mountains o-of dead people.

And that took like I think there were four women on that,

three or four women on Saturdays,

you know, for like six, eight hours.

It took three years to -- to build that set.

-Wow. To do how many seconds of footage?

-One 1,000, two 1,000, three, 1,000,

four, yeah. -Four seconds of footage?

-Yeah, yeah. -It took three years?

-Yeah. -Wow. That's like --

So obviously you're not moving the thing one --

one frame at a time yourself. You've got to, uh, you know --

-Uh, no, well, I was --

-You gotta have an army to do this film.

-[Scoffs] Nah.

Uh. -Well, I mean, the --

the skilled people were from my studio,

and there were no more than half a dozen or eight,

you know, that would put in the weekends

and sometimes after work.

And -- And the -- the, uh, new recruits was kind of

like, eh, giving razor blades to 4-year-olds,

you know, because we have like tools that can kill you.

-These are like local art students and --

-Not even art students, you know.

-Just people that wanted to be involved with the film?

-Yeah, Yeah. They'd never, you know, worked on a movie before.

-So you could just show up and say,

"I want to work on it," and they say, "Okay, well,

the dead people's -- the four second

dead people set is over there."? -Yeah, yeah. And --

-Your job is putting one more -- -And so, the way I paid them

was there's a Mexican restaurant,

Juan's, that we always go to.

It's kind of an institution.

So I buy lunch, you know, every Saturday,

and that's how I pay them. -Okay.

[Wind howling]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Vocalizing]

[Ululating]

[Vocalization continues]

[Ululating]

[Vocalization continues in background]

[Footfalls]

[Rattling]

[Man humming]

[Man grunting]

[Sliding]

[Grunts]

[Rattling]

[Sliding]

-[Grunts]

[Grunting]

[Beads clinking] Hmm.

[Grunting]

Uh. Ah!

[Hanger rattling]

[Man humming]

Huh?

[Rustling]

Huh.

Uh-huh.

[Rustling]

[Slurping]

[Rustling]

[Rings]

[Rustling]

Mm-mm!

Ah!

[Inhales deeply]

Ah!

Uh, uh, uh, uh.

Uh, eh, eh, eh, uh.

Eh, eh, uh.

Uh.

Eh.

Hmm!

[Inhales deeply, exhales]

[Popping]

[Humming]

[Popping continues]

[Humming continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Bang]

[Creaking]

[Grunts]

[Whirring]

[Splashing]

[Buzzing]

[Squeaking]

[Door creaking open]

[Grunts] [Door slams shut]

[Button clicks] [Zapping]

[Buzzing]

[Grunts] [Buzzing stops]

[Knobs rotating]

[Whirring]

[Sighing]

[Knobs rotating]

Mm.

[Device creaking]

[Grunting]

Hmm?

[Beeping and clicking]

Huh.

[Beeping and clicking]

[Grunting]

[Wind howling]

[Rattling]

-[Indistinct recorded voice memo on oscillator]

-Hmm?

[Whirring]

[Morse S.O.S. beeping]

[Tapping] -Uh.

Eh. Uh, uh, uh. [Grunts]

[Morse S.O.S. beeping continues ]

[Tapping]

[Inhales deeply]

[Wind howling] [Man humming]

♪♪

♪♪

[Man sighing]

[Whirring]

[Thud]

[Squeaking]

[Hissing] [Creaking]

[Thumping]

[Radar beeping in background]

[Rustling]

[Thumping]

[Clunking]

[Clattering]

[Slams] [Hissing]

[Whirring]

[Footfalls]

♪♪

[Footfalls continue]

♪♪

[Squishing]

[Thuds]

♪♪

[Zapping, screaming]

[Whirring]

[Clunking]

[Tapping]

[Kicking]

[Engine stalling]

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

[Engine whirring continues]

♪♪

[Creature growling]

[Motorcycle engine whirring]

[Creatures squawking, moaning]

[Bellowing]

[Engine revving]

[Sputtering]

[Inhales deeply]

[Rotating handlebar]

[Banging]

[Rattling in distance]

[Click]

[Thwack]

[Thump]

[Door slams]

[Rustling]

[Tapping]

[Rustling]

[Key clicking in ignition]

[Sparking, engine sputtering]

[Engine starting]

[Channels changing on radio]

[Instrumental music plays on radio]

[Banging] [Radio goes silent]

[Clunk]

[Whirring] [Thudding]

[Clunking]

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

♪♪

[Whirring continues]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Instrumental music playing on radio]

[Brakes screeching]

[Banging]

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

♪♪

[Dragon squawking] [Thunder rumbling]

[Dragon screeching]

[Dragon screeches] [Thunder rumbling]

[Thunder crackling]

[Dragon squawking in distance]

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

[Vehicle thumping]

♪♪

[Whirring continues]

♪♪

[Tinkling]

[Engine whirring]

[Vehicle thuds]

[Brakes screeching]

[Crash!]

[Breathing heavily]

♪♪

♪♪

[Engine whirring]

[Insects chirping in distance]

[Whirring continues]

[Explosion in distance]

[Explosions]

[Weapons firing]

[Explosions and firing]

[Engine whirring]

[Explosions and firing continue]

[Tires screeching] [Explosions]

[Firing and explosions]

[Metal creaking]

[Thwack!]

[Firing]

[Explosion]

[Clunking]

[Firing and explosions]

[Engine whirring]

[Firing and explosions continue]

[Squeaking]

♪♪

[Engine whirring]

[Explosions]

[Firing and explosions]

♪♪

♪♪

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

[Explosions in distance]

♪♪

[Engine whirring]

♪♪

♪♪

[Whirring continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Squawking in distance]

[Explosions in distance]

[Brakes screech]

[Ticking]

[Engine whirring]

[Brakes screech] [Vehicle thuds]

[Channels overlapping on radio]

[Banging] [Radio goes silent]

[Finger sliding across the fabric]

[Engine whirring]

[Screeching]

♪♪

♪♪

[Loose stones crunching]

♪♪

[Thunder rumbling]

[Engine whirring continues]

♪♪

[Loose stones crunching]

♪♪

[Zapping]

♪♪

♪♪

[Indistinct chatter on radio]

♪♪

♪♪

[Static]

-Okay, so, Phil, we just saw the death of the assassin

right after he gave birth to a slime baby, or --

But now we have all these guys who look exactly like him.

I guess the part of an assassin family

or something, that somehow down here in the part of hell,

that's not the worst part of hell

because we're about to go down several more levels.

So... And I'm not going to try to describe it,

you know, beyond that.

But we just saw the only human actor in the movie,

Alex Cox, as the Last Man.

And the only reason I know he's the Last Man

is that I saw him in the credits.

He was listed as the Last Man. Otherwise, I wouldn't know that.

But why is he the last man?

-I just wanted to change the tone and, you know,

insert a live human into that section.

Why? I don't know. Honestly.

You know, it's --

You know, a lot of it is to change things up.

You find, like, when you're working on

a normal theatrical movie,

you have all this stuff planned out.

But, you know, you get out,

say, like on "Troopers," out on a location

and you, like, shoot the first scene and okay,

now you're going to go on to the next scene.

It was like,

"You know, we've already done [Laughs] this scene,

you know, with the bugs.

What can we do differently?"

You know, and to just -- And it's a composition.

The whole thing is a composition that I'm finding along the way.

And it just occurred to me, well, I had set this up already

because when The Assassin goes in with the suitcase,

then you see all these other suitcases surrounding him.

It's like, "What is that?"

And it was like, "Well, here's the back story of it.

There's a lot of these guys that Alex Cox sends down."

-Right. Alex Cox is the director of "Repo Man," and --

-"Sid and Nancy". -..."Sid and Nancy".

-Oh, he's worked on a number of films.

In fact, you know, last year he went down

and did something in Mexico, and --

-Okay. How'd you get Alex to do this? Is he a friend?

-We're friends, you know, we go back --

Jon Davison, who was the producer of "RoboCop"

and "Starship Troopers", introduced us,

[Sniffles] and together, we developed "Mars Attacks!"

And, you know, Jon got the rights

to the bubble gum cards,

and the studio didn't like it.

You know, they didn't think it was funny,

and, you know, we did.

You know, it was --

The [Sniffles] Martians were capitalists

and came down to earth 'cause Alex is a communist,

and came down to earth

and just started to, you know, mine the earth

and got the earthlings just to buy their shit.

Tons of shit that, you know... -[Laughs]

-Yeah. -Yeah. That would probably work.

-And so the studio went, "We don't like it."

And so Jon was able to get Martin Amis on it,

and -- the English writer.

And so Martin did a script, and the studio didn't like that.

So [Sniffles] you know, that went to hell,

and then Burton got it and made that,

you know, stupid thing, you know?

-[Chuckles] Okay.

Alex Cox seems to be channeling Nosferatu --

-Well, that was interesting to me, you know,

because my directorial style is,

you know, I try and keep it, like, very hands off,

you know, for everything. [Sniffles]

And it's like, you know, "Well, this shot is, like --

kind of like this, and that's what I like to have,

two monsters hitting each other with shovels

and, you know, see you later."

And -- -[Laughter]

-And so we started shooting.

All of Alex's stuff was green screen,

and I wanted to give him something else,

so I was very careful about his costume.

He starts off with, like, you know,

I forget what it's called,

but, like, kind of a Middle East terrorist thing.

He takes that off, and then he has a yarmulke on.

So it's, like, the Palestinians and the Jews. He changes.

[Sniffles] And so he's got these long fingernails.

And so we start shooting, and...

you know, I was like, "Okay, whatever.

Okay, walk left to right.

Okay, fine. You know, that's okay."

[Sniffles] And then, you know, within a few shots,

he would start to do this thing, and it was like Nosferatu.

And he goes, "Yeah, you're right."

And so, yeah, that's what he did.

You're right. Yeah. He played -- -Okay.

So at the last break, we were talking about

how this movie sat idle for 20 years.

I mean, it didn't sit idle with you,

but you didn't have, like, you know,

people coming on the weekends and working on it.

So, I mean, you're dealing with heaven and hell, right?

And both the outward heaven and hell

and the inward heaven and hell, whatever that is.

So, for example, I know you read a work

that all English majors love to hate,

and that's John Milton. [Laughs]

-Yeah, I hated it, too. -[Laughs] Okay.

-And then I got the, you know, the thing on tape

and it was -- I hated that as well, you know.

So, I don't know -- it was some place,

you know, I found, you know, "The Inferno" for dummies,

or, like, a "Classics Illustrated"

[Laughs] comic book, you know, it's like --

-That's the works that all Italian majors love to hate --

Dante. -Yeah.

So you read that, too? -Well, yeah, I --

Well, [Blows raspberry] I read some of it,

and it was like, "What the fuck?" You know?

-[Laughs] And so then you did this deep dive

into Sigmund Freud, and then you went deep, deep --

More -- More -- More Jung, really.

-The -- Carl Jung, the psychiatrist,

anthropologist.

He was all the things that you like --

archeologist, religious studies scholar Carl Jung.

And in fact, the Carl Jung work

that you became most enamored of was "The Red Book",

which is the weirdest book.

I mean, the one -- -It really is.

-It's the one that Jung said would make people think

he was crazy, and I think the family kind of

protected the book for a while. -Well, yeah, for years.

And he worked on that for something like 16 years,

pretty much in private, didn't really tell anybody.

And it was -- it was identical to the process,

for me personally, on "Mad God"

because it's the classic Joseph Campbell,

you know, thing where the hero goes on this mystical journey

and goes down a path that leads to a door.

And then there's, like, the, you know,

talking wolf that goes, like, "Hey, go that way."

And he goes that way and then climbs over a wall

and has to fight a monster.

And then the talking crow goes, "Yeah, go that way."

And so, you're moving through all these stations

and experiencing life,

and it comes to the point where the hero dies,

one way or the other, and has to be reborn.

And so, that's the classic Joseph Campbell kind of thing

that Jung figured out, you know, years before Campbell,

intuitively.

And so, that's pretty much what happened to me.

Like Jung -- Jung went nuts doing "The Red Book", you know,

and it was his family that pulled it back.

And I like to -- I like to think

that they [Chuckles] sent him to a psychiatrist,

which I think would be hilarious.

-What psychiatrist would take him, you know?

It's like, you know --

But you became so obsessed that you kind of had

a "Red book" experience yourself, right?

-Yeah. No, I did. I went deep,

and I didn't know I was getting sucked into this thing,

[Sniffles] but I was working, like, you know,

every single day, at least six days a week,

and then on the seventh day, I would, like,

plan things, [Sniffles] you know, so it --

I was, you know, living and breathing this thing, and --

-But did you actually go to the hospital?

-I went to the psych ward. -Really?

-Yeah. Yeah, for a few days. And then I was in recovery.

Well, what happened was, you know,

I didn't realize this until later.

You know, my friends would -- told me that, you know, I --

my clothes were all ripped up.

There was paint and plaster on everything.

-And that's from working on the movie?

-Yeah, I let myself go, and my hair was long

and beard was long, and it was, like, all matted,

and I didn't shave, and I looked like a homeless person.

And it was just -- I was just living

in this alternate universe, and then I discovered

after I had gone through the psych ward

and the recovery thing, I went back to work on "Mad God"

and I was working on some stuff, and I went, like,

"Hey, you know what? You know, I've been told

I'm weird all my life, but you know what?

I think I am weird."

And it was like, I started studying

my behavior and my work,

and it was like, then I consulted a psychiatrist

and I said, "You know, I think maybe I'm bipolar."

And she, you know, asked me some questions

and talks about, you know, experience.

And she goes, "Yeah, yeah, you are."

So, you know, what would happen

is with that, that was my secret weapon.

-But you were able to self-diagnose.

But in those manic periods, you were --

-Crazy. -You were crazy,

but you were creating this movie.

-Yeah, and it would compound, you know, as, you know,

the manic side, as things went on,

it just became more and more and more and more.

And, you know, sometimes I'd work like 12,

15 hours a day on the thing and then be exhausted

and come home and was just, like, "Uhhh,"

but my mind wouldn't stop working, you know?

And so I drank a lot, you know, and --

which was not a good thing.

And just to stop my mind, I was self-medicating, you know?

And now I have medication, so it's like, "Oh, thank God."

And -- -It doesn't sound like

manic depressive so much as just manic, manic, manic.

-Yeah, well, I was diagnosed as unipolar,

so I don't get depressed unless my dog gets run over by a car,

or I'm not accepted to the Berlin Film Festival.

[Laughter]

And that was the first two.

Yeah, it was, like, the Berlin Festival

and the Sundance -- -You mean when there

was a brand new movie and you wanted to --

-Yeah, the first two. -...take it to festival.

-I got rejected by those two.

And that sent me into a really deep depression

because it was like, "Okay, here we go." [Laughs]

-30 years, and you can't get into a film festival.

Oh, well, you and your legion of student assistants

worked on it for at least 10 years, right?

-12. -12 years. Okay.

Now, how did you know when it was finished?

-When the producer told me. [Laughter]

You know, at the very end,

there was a post-production, you know, producer on it,

Lisa Cook, because by that time, Shudder had seen it.

But for me and Richard Beggs, it was never done.

And it was like, "No, we got to do this thing, we gotta --

You know, no, let's do -- Oh, hey, you know --"

-Are you telling me Shudder made you stop?

-No, but there was a commitment, and so the --

-You had a deadline with Shudder?

-The people that ran my studio --

-This is funny. [Laughs]

When it was, like, my wife, you know,

was the CEO of the thing, you know, it was like,

you know, she gave the producer, Lisa Cook, you know, the job.

"You got to reel this guy in 'cause it's got to be done."

-Well, we have an assassin in a rickety jeep

going down, down, down to yet another level of hell.

And this movie -- this movie always goes down.

It's a journey to -- -Yes, it was one direction.

-...journey to the center of the earth.

So let's go back to it. Let's roll it. Go.

Do you think brutal dictators and serial killers

and evil doctors, like Dr. Mengele and --

Do you think -- do you think they eventually get punished?

-You mean go to hell? -Yeah.

-Nah. -No?

-I don't think so.

I mean, they, you know, they do live in their own hell.

You know, they're always, you know, getting comeuppance.

You know, so, you know, that's --

-You think that people that spend their lives

making mindless Hallmark movies get punished?

-No, they go to purgatory. -[Laughs] Okay.

I like to think they burn in eternal fire, actually.

[Laughter]

[Quick footfalls in distance]

♪♪

[Baby crying]

[Baby wailing]

♪♪

[Crying continues]

♪♪

[Zapping]

[Baby crying in distance]

[Whirring]

[Shutter bangs]

[Baby cooing]

-[Whispering in foreign language]

-[Grunting]

-[Whispering in foreign language continues]

-[Grunts]

[Baby coos]

-[Creature speaking in foreign language]

[Baby fussing]

[Creature speaking in foreign language continues]

[Baby fussing continues]

[Baby gurgling]

[Baby screaming]

[Creature speaking in foreign language]

[Shutter whirring, thuds]

[Zapping]

[Rustling]

[Breathing heavily]

[Baby screaming in distance]

[Baby crying in distance]

[Stone door sliding]

[Crying continues]

♪♪

[Stone grinds]

[Baby crying in distance]

♪♪

♪♪

[Stone thudding]

[Crying continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Stone doors sliding, thudding]

[Baby wailing]

♪♪

[Wailing continues]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Creature bellows]

[Stone grinding]

[Creature bellows]

[Chains clatter, door thuds]

[Creature huffs]

[Baby crying continues]

[Creature huffing continues]

[Creature bellowing]

[Creature huffs]

[Door creaks, whirs]

[Creature grunts]

[Baby wailing]

♪♪

[Wailing continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Bird chirping]

[Bird squawking]

♪♪

[Baby crying]

♪♪

[Squelching]

[Creature calling out]

[Crying continues]

[Calling out continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Baby wailing]

♪♪

[Wailing fades]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Stone grinding]

♪♪

[Door creaking]

[Squishes]

[Clicking] [Footfalls]

[Growling in distance]

[Bat wings fluttering]

[Creatures growling]

[Creature wails] [Thwack!]

[Creature groans]

[Creature squawking]

[Creatures growling]

♪♪

[Creature wails]

♪♪

[Thwack!]

[Creature groaning]

[Creature shouting]

[Creature screeches]

[Creature growling]

[Clunking, groaning]

♪♪

[Creature squawks] [Clunking in background]

[Bell rings]

[Creatures growling]

♪♪

[Creature shouts]

♪♪

[Zapping] [Creature shrieking]

[Lever cranks]

[Zapping, shrieking continues]

[Lever cranks]

[Zapping, shrieking intensifies]

[Lever cranks]

[Creatures groan, breathe heavily]

[Zap, creature shrieks]

[Zapping, creature shrieking]

[Creature groans]

[Puking, groaning]

[Creature squawking]

[Creatures grunting]

[Squelching, scraping]

[Creatures grunting]

[Squelching]

♪♪

♪♪

[Creatures breathing deeply]

[Burbling] [Sploshing]

[Creatures groaning]

[Creature Shrieking]

[Static]

-So, Phil, was that two creatures

brawling with giant shit shovels, you know,

with a little dwarf referee electrocuting their brains?

'Cause that was an awesome, like, little interlude there

that we just watched.

-Being, like, a Ray Harryhausen fan,

and all, I'm like, well, two monsters

beating the shit out of each other, you know?

And so, it was really a no-brainer.

So I gave them shovels. That was, you know --

-Well, Ray Harryhausen would be proud of that scene,

[Laughs] I think.

And when you finish the film in --

I think you finished in 2021, right?

-Yeah, that sounds right. -You finished the film.

You send it off to film festivals.

As you pointed out, you didn't have a good reaction.

-No. -You sent it to Berlin.

Where else did you send it? Sundance?

-Sundance, yeah. -Rejected?

-First two rejected, yeah.

And, you know, I showed it to, like,

other, you know, filmmaking friends,

and the feedback was, "You know, Phil,

this is not a movie for everyone." [Laughs]

-[Laughs] No, it's not. -No, I know.

-Well, no movie is for everyone, but, you know...

-So I was kind of on pins and needles about,

you know, about that.

But, you know, I did have confidence to the extent

that what I want to see is stuff that I've never seen before.

And so I thought that on that level,

that I -- there are people out there,

I know, that are sick of the shit

that they're fed, you know, in terms of media

and that there -- I was pretty confident there would be a --

-Well you win on the "never seen it before" scale,

definitely, and then -- But describe opening night

when you finally, you know, culmination of 30 years work,

and finally, at the Locarno Film Festival,

which is in Switzerland, you have that opening night,

and was that -- Did you feel a sense of

completion at that time? -Yeah.

Well, like the composer and I sat at the back

and watched, you know,

and then only, like, eight people

walked out of, like -- The place was full, and --

and then word of mouth went out, and they did another screening,

and then they did another screening,

and then they did another screening.

And that's kind of how it worked in all the other film festivals.

One of the guys at Locarno came up and --

'cause Locarno is right on the Italian border --

and came up and said,

"You know that alchemist character, he was --

was he speaking, you know, Italian?"

And I went like, "Yeah."

And so, what I would do as I'm collecting stuff in my life,

you know, there was, like, the poet's lament

in Fellini Satyricon,

and I always liked that scene and that voiceover.

And so I stole it, you know, I just recorded it off the TV

and, you know -- -Oh, is that what that is?

-Yeah. -Oh, okay.

So now that you've done hell,

shouldn't you go back to Hieronymus Bosch

and do the Garden of Eden

and the Garden of Earthly Delights?

Wouldn't Bosch demand a trilogy? -[Stammers]

-You know? Yeah.

No, that's how I felt, because I would never --

Well, for one thing, you know,

don't have enough of my life left [Laughs]

to do another "Mad God." -That's only 60 more years --

one for the Garden of Earthly Delights

and one for -- 130-year period for the --

-No, the next thing I've developed is --

is totally different,

and it really is my antidote for "Mad God."

But, you know, like they say, the canary sings one song.

So, there's, like, plenty of "Mad God" kind of stuff,

but from a different perspective, but I --

-So, you have a project going?

-No, but I have, you know...

I have all the characters, you know, worked out and sculpted.

I -- Over COVID, I sculpted all the characters.

There's like 30 characters.

And I did a bunch of key art

where I shot the characters against blue screen

and comped them against different backgrounds.

And I did 800 storyboards

and wrote the thing. -Wow.

-So, it's all ready to go.

And, you know, I think once everything kind of --

dust settles from "Mad God,"

then we'll go out towards the end of the year

and see if we can talk people out of money

to do that. -Okay.

Well, we have a lot of filmmakers who watch this show

and we especially have a lot of special effects devotees

who watch this show.

So, I know they're gonna want to know

the answer to one question, and that is --

if you're a 19-year-old kid today

who loves monsters and loves creatures

and loves effects

the way you did when you were a kid,

what should you learn to do today?

And where do you go to learn that today?

-Ah, well, I mean, it depends on what you want to do.

I mean, there's kind of a resurgence

in stop-motion animation.

-There is a resurgence. Yeah. -Now.

And so if you want to go that route...

And you've got to practice.

[Laughs] You know, it's like anything else.

You know?

And, uh, I would do what, you know, sports people do.

I think -- and it's what I did as a kid.

You visualize being in that place.

You know, you visualize winning the race.

You see yourself, you know, every single step, more or less.

And so I really dedicated myself to it.

You know, I just -- that's what I did all the time.

You know, I just drew and drew and learned how to sculpt

and learned how to do all these different processes.

In high school, I never had a girlfriend.

I didn't particularly like anybody, you know,

'cause nobody was into cinema.

I was friendly and all, would eat lunch with people,

but it was like I'd check out at the end of the day

and just go home and work on my stuff.

And -- and that's -- that's what I did.

I just lived and breathed this stuff.

-Well, just so people don't think

you went straight to "Star Wars,"

you kind of apprenticed on commercials, right?

You -- the Pillsbury -- Pillsbury Doughboy.

You animated him, right? -Yeah.

-And the Jolly Green Giant. You animated him?

-Well, he wasn't animated, but I built a bunch of sets --

-Okay. -...for that.

Yeah, I mean, that -- that really was my graduate school,

'cause things turn over really quick,

and it was working with some really great guys.

And Tex Avery was there, and --

-Tex Avery was there where you were working

on the Pillsbury Doughboy? -Yeah!

And so, I'd hang out with Tex

outside the stage, and we'd smoke cigarettes.

And, you know, I asked him --

'cause, you know, I was young then --

how to how to work a dummy sheet,

you know, for animation.

And he goes, "Yeah, okay, I'll show you."

And he -- so, he does these key poses of Bugs Bunny.

And then he goes like, "Hey, what's up, doc?"

And breaks down that. Then he does the frames.

It's like, da-da-da.

And I was like,

"Oh, great. Well, thanks, you know?

And will you -- will you sign it for me?"

He goes, "Sure!"

And so he goes like, "To my good friend Phil, Tex Avery."

And I framed that. I still have it.

-Really? -Yeah.

-Where he -- it was an instant Bugs Bunny planning sheet?

Is that what it was? -Well, no, it was just a...

It was just a mimeographed or xeroxed dummy sheet, you know,

that has, like, all these lines.

And then, you know, animators...

I never used one of those things.

But, you know, it's a typical thing

that they use for animation.

The director will do that and do the key poses

and, you know, figure out when the thing is talking

and then hand it over to the in-betweener.

-So, your main advice is just get out there

and do it wherever you can, right?

-Well, either you have, you know,

like, an innate, um,

talent, you know, for this stuff or, um --

like I did not, you know --

you just have to practice and practice and practice.

But, you know, I learned. -You're saying you did not have

an innate talent? -I don't think so.

I could not perceive it, because if I did,

it happened at the same time that I was doing stuff.

Because whenever you start stuff,

you're not like, you know, Michelangelo or Mozart.

You know, it's -- everything looks like shit.

And then, you know, it's like,

oh, it's a little bit better and a little bit better, you know?

-Okay.

Well, we're gonna watch the, not surprisingly,

excessively weird conclusion to "Mad God" now.

I was gonna ask you,

it seemed like you had a sliver of hope there

and like, like, a little bit of optimism

for the future of humankind.

-Yeah. -It's there, right?

-Yeah. No, definitely. Yeah.

-Okay. Well, we like to see that and hear that.

[Laughter] And, uh...

-But I saved it for the end.

-Okay. All right.

Roll the movie.

-You know, one thing I wanted to mention was, um,

you know, through Alex Cox, you know,

I was introduced to Richard Beggs

and the composer Dan Wool, 'cause Dan had done --

-Dan Wool, who lives in San Francisco, right?

-Yeah, and he did a number of Alex's scores, and Alex

was making a few Westerns and was a big Morricone fan,

so Dan did Morricone-esque, you know, music.

And so, I asked him if he would be interested in,

you know, working on "Mad God." And it was like,

"Ehh, I wonder if he can do something

different than Morricone." [Laughter]

And one of the things I do is,

you know, or was around that time,

I made these, like, little sketchbooks that -- on Hi8.

And they were very abstract.

You know, they were just,

you know, different things with different sounds.

You know, like, for instance, a radio

where the dial is turning and it's just going through,

you know, from, like, Perry Como to, you know, punk rock

and then the news or whatever.

And that's where, you know, Dan and I hooked up,

'cause he -- we both have the same, you know, art education,

which I didn't know.

And he does, like, ambient music, which I didn't know.

And -- and so, he saw this thing and realized

that our minds were, you know, working on the same level.

And what I did not want to do was get into this trap,

you know, that I witnessed with a lot of filmmakers

where they would have the temp score.

You know, the -- the music is always put on

on the very end of the movie.

And it's, the score is like done to, like, rhythmically,

like, Carmina Burana or Beethoven's Fifth or whatever.

And it structures the movie rhythmically,

and -- and then the composer comes in and does his thing.

And I didn't want that.

So, I wanted to build the music.

I wanted the music to influence the movie

as much as the picture influenced the -- the music.

And, um...

And so, uh, Dan saw this.

You know, I showed him the six minutes,

and so he composed something for that.

And as we built the first chapter,

which was about 12 minutes long, the editor, Ken Rogerson,

and I would take that six minutes

and then chop it up

and reverse it or slow it down or whatever.

But I was, you know, kind of channeling Dan's --

the tone of Dan's music, and that's what I wanted to do.

I wanted those things to work in tandem with each other.

-It's more like sound design

than a traditional, um, score.

-Yeah, it is. And there's...

Dan did a lot of sound stuff in it,

and I was really lucky.

He and Richard Beggs had worked together a lot,

and so they worked back and forth.

You know, all the time,

Dan was always going over to Richard's place

and they were making sure that their stuff, you know, jibed.

'Cause a lot of times there'll be a war, like Ben Burtt had

with George on the speeder bike chase

in "Return of the Jedi."

And George wanted wall-to-wall music on everything.

And Ben was going, "Oh, no, no, no.

Let me just have this as sound."

"No, I want to put, you know"...

And then, you know, um...

You know, Ben won the thing.

George went, "Okay, whatever."

And, uh, but, you know, there's, um...

there's always that battle, too,

between, you know, where you bring the music up

and where you suppress the sound.

So, I was really lucky.

-You hear a lot of babies crying on the score.

-Mm, yeah. Yeah.

Well, and then, you know,

I mean, there was a baby in it. -Right.

-You know, and I wanted --

I wanted that baby to be really annoying

and wanted it -- -It is.

-Yeah, and wanted it to go on for a long time

so that when the -- when the thing gets crushed,

you have absolutely no sympathy for the thing.

[Laughter] At all.

You know, you just want to turn it off.

-[Laughs] -But, but the other thing was,

for the projections of the big mouths, um,

I think I had something that was like,

you know, what you would expect --

you know, like Hitler's voice running backwards

or something like that, blaring it out.

And so, you know, Richard would do his thing,

and then we'd go over and we look at the movie

with the sound and the music, and he had this baby crying.

It was like, "Holy shit, that's great."

You know, that totally works for this moronic world,

you know, to have... -Right, right.

-If that's the Mad God -- -That's the dictator.

-...you know, to have, like, an infant.

-Thank you, Phil. -Sure. My pleasure.

[Cheers and applause]

♪♪

[Shrieking]

[Whirring in distance]

♪♪

♪♪

[Door squeaking in distance]

♪♪

[Door shutting in distance]

[Footsteps]

♪♪

[Squawks]

[Scraping]

[Squawks]

[Sprinkling]

♪♪

♪♪

[Slithering]

♪♪

♪♪

[Slurping]

♪♪

[Squawking]

[Zapping]

[Whirring]

[Creaks]

[Rustling]

♪♪

[Zapping]

[Whirring]

[Rustling]

♪♪

[Growling]

♪♪

[Scampering]

[Growling]

[Shrieking]

♪♪

[Slurps] [Cups clinking]

[Creature shrieking]

♪♪

-Oh, no!

[Young creature shrieking in distance]

[Snickering]

[Whirring]

[Footsteps]

[Ticking]

♪♪

♪♪

[Footsteps]

[Rustling]

♪♪

♪♪

[Wiping]

♪♪

♪♪

[Debris clinking]

♪♪

[Rattling]

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♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Footsteps]

♪♪

♪♪

[Rustling]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Baby screams]

[Baby crying]

♪♪

[Baby crying continues]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Rattling]

[Grunting]

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[Baby crying]

[Rustling]

♪♪

[Baby coughing]

[Crying continues]

♪♪

[Baby cooing]

♪♪

[Sputtering]

[Squeaking]

[Whirring]

[Baby gurgling]

[Churning]

[Shrieks]

[Squelching]

♪♪

[Liquid flowing, bubbling]

♪♪

[Whirring]

[Rattles]

[Crackling]

[Gas hissing]

[Flaring]

♪♪

[Clinking]

♪♪

[Sizzling]

[Squeaking]

[Rattling]

♪♪

[Clunk]

[Clinking]

♪♪

[Clunking]

[Rattling]

♪♪

[Clinking]

♪♪

[High-pitched ringing]

♪♪

♪♪

[Whirring]

[Metal groaning]

♪♪

[Howling]

♪♪

[Squawking]

[Creaking]

♪♪

[Shattering]

[Explosion]

♪♪

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[Explosions]

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[Beeping]

♪♪

[Sirens blaring]

♪♪

[Clock ticking]

[Alarm buzzing]

[Firing]

[Explosions]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Ticking]

♪♪

[Liquid trickling]

♪♪

♪♪

[Ticking]

♪♪

♪♪

[Ticking continues]

♪♪

♪♪

[Ticking speeds up]

♪♪

♪♪

[Whirring]

♪♪

♪♪

[Clock dinging, cuckoo singing]

[Sounds echo, fade]

[Chorus singing]

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

♪♪

[Singing fades]

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♪♪

[Thunder rumbling]

-So, yeah, um...

Just when you think you're starting to understand

the movie -- like, you know, the bawling baby creature

is gonna create something new --

Phil Tippett fucks with us again!

[Laughter]

You know, the baby bashing

and then a cuckoo clock,

and then what's going on there at the end?

Does Joel Osteen become the king of the world or something?

Damn. I mean, thanks again

to Academy Award-winner Phil Tippett

for spending his evening with us,

but he didn't really explain the plot to you.

I mean, is this the first time, though,

that we've had an actual Oscar winner on the show?

-I think it has to be. -I think it is. Right?

And an Emmy winner -- he has two Emmys as well,

for "Dinosaur!"

and for "The Ewok Adventure." -Nice.

-And he also did visual effects for "Willow,"

which was -- he was nominated for the Oscar for that one.

And also nominations for "Return of the Jedi,"

"Dragonslayer," "Dragonheart,"

and "Starship Troopers."

He actually directed "Starship Troopers 2."

But he never fully embraced CGI,

even though he was the first expert on CGI.

He did the effects in, um,

"Honey, I Shrunk the Kids." -Aww.

-You know, the sequel to "Mad God" could be

"Honey, I Pissed Off God Again," you know?

[Laughter]

So, what do you think of it, Darcy?

-Well, it is beautifully done.

-But... -[Laughs]

No, I admire the artistry.

It's like "Fantasia" for metal heads.

-But did you like it?

-Uh, I might have, you know, toked up a little bit

and just kind of soaked up the atmosphere.

-Alright.

I think Phil would approve of that, actually, because...

[Laughter]

-Phil says that after he finished "Return of the Jedi,"

he went home and took eight LSD capsules.

And he says he went to the center of the Earth

for a billion years with his cat.

-Wow. Did he really say that?

-He said that. He did.

And the cat liked it, too, he said.

Anyway, this was a guy who at the age of 16

was hanging around the Ackermansion

and schmoozing with Ray Bradbury.

So, he was obviously destined to be a guy who would,

you know, dream up scenes of a minotaur getting a hand-job

from skinless, naked women with bird heads, so...

-I mean, that sounds good to me.

-Yeah, he talks about it like it was just a bunch of students

who came over on weekends.

But "A," you know, the way he told that --

"A," they were the best students at the Academy of Art University

in San Francisco, and "B,"

people like Johnny McLeod from "Star Wars"

would come in on the days that the students were there

and teach everybody how to do,

you know, explosions with miniatures and things like that.

But, Darcy, we are not finished with animation.

This is Animation Night.

And coming up next is "Perfect Blue."

-Yay! I love "Perfect Blue."

But first, we have mail.

-Alright, hit me. Hit me up.

-This is an e-mail from Josh Hitchens.

-Okay, Josh.

"Dear Joe Bob, I'm a long-time fan and wanted to finally write

and thank you for all of the joy

your work as a writer and horror host

has brought me throughout my life.

I first discovered you while you were doing Monstervision

on TNT back in the '90s.

I was in high school then and had a very difficult time

as a gay teen in a small town in southern Delaware,

where it was not okay to be who I knew I was.

I often considered ending my life back then,

but watching you on Monstervision,

as the horror junkie I already was then

and still am today,

was literally what helped keep me alive

during those difficult years.

The time you hosted movies every week,

month after month, and year after year"...

It was month after month, year after year.

..."gave me something wonderful to look forward to every week

when I really needed it.

When you came back to horror hosting on Shudder,

it was also exactly what I needed.

I was getting divorced from the person

I had been with for 15 years and whom I had married.

After it all went wrong and the divorce happened,

there you were hosting 'The Last Drive-In' on Shudder

with Darcy. Again, looking forward

to what you both were going to do each week

saved me and gave me immense comfort

during one of the most difficult times in my life.

It helped me find so much happiness,

and it still does.

Every time 'The Last Drive-In' is on Shudder,

I mark my calendar around it.

It is my happy place.

I have a wonderful partner now for five years and counting,

and for my birthday he got both of us tickets

to see you and Darcy at the Mahoning Drive-in."

We were there in, um... summer of two years ago --

-'21. -...2021, for the Jamboree.

You know?

"I really hope

Shudder releases the footage of that taping of

'Night of the Demons' and 'Torso,'

because that was an amazing experience."

-Yes. -I hope they do, too.

-I do, too. It was super fun.

-"I didn't get the chance to get an autograph with you

or to meet you and Darcy personally on that day,

but I did get to have a photo taken with you,

both with me and my partner, and I treasure that.

From the closeted, afraid, horror-loving gay kid I was

watching you on Monstervision to --

in order to stay alive another week,

to be the proud and happy horror-loving person I am now

and to be in a photo with both you and Darcy

with the love of my life,

it meant everything to me -- and I truly mean everything.

After that photo was taken, I walked away with my partner

and I burst into tears because I was so happy."

-Aww.

-"Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And thank you to Darcy, too, because she's incredible

and the best mail girl co-host ever.

Keep doing your great work. Thank you. Thank you both.

The true spirit of the drive-in will never die. Josh."

All right. And here's that...

Have we got it up.

Here's the picture of Josh and his partner

and you and me and our camping setup at the Mahoning.

We didn't have camping last year at the Memphis Jamboree,

but we are allowing camping this October

at the third jamboree in Las Vegas.

So, anyway. -Yeah!

-I'm glad you got it all figured out, Josh,

and I'm glad you're part of the mutant fam.

And I know a lot of gay and trans people

who were struggling in the '90s,

especially, where it was probably harder than today --

they watched Monstervision.

Something about the monsters was comforting.

-Something about you was comforting.

-Well, I was kind of...

I was actually kind of a flamethrower in those days.

I don't think I was too comforting.

I was kind of a...

-I think a lot of people identify

with the flamethrower part.

It's like we felt like outsiders

and we became insiders when we watched your show.

-Oh, well, that's totally news to me.

But I'm glad that we all found one another.

And we have -- we do have an amazing set of fans.

They are fans so loyal they will sit through "Mad God,"

which is... -[Laughing] True dat.

-And now we need to move on to our second endurance test --

I mean, our second, uh, -- -What?!

-...animated classic of the evening.

[Laughs]

-"Perfect Blue" is fun.

-Alright, well, we'll let the mutant fam be judges

of whether it's fun or not.

I'm Joe Bob Briggs signing off with Darcy the Mail Girl,

and reminding you that here at "The Last Drive-In,"

if we tell you a chicken dips snuff,

you better look under his wing for the can.

And the drive-in will never die.

-What? What?! [Laughter]

That's "Mad God"-level. -Well, if you didn't like...

-Do you like Little Johnny jokes?

-I don't know what that is,

but I have a feeling you're going to tell me, so...

-Well, nobody tells Little Johnny jokes anymore.

Little Johnny is a smartass kid

who refuses to obey the rules. -Okay.

-That's all you have to know about Little Johnny, okay?

So, the teacher is teaching a math class,

and she sees Johnny isn't paying attention,

so she asks him, "If there are three ducks

sitting on a fence and you shoot one, how many are left?"

And Johnny says, "None."

And she says, "Why do you say that?"

And Johnny says,

"'Cause the shot scared 'em all off."

And the teacher says, "No, the correct answer is two,

but I like how you're thinking."

So, Johnny says to the teacher, "Well, I have one for you.

If you see three women walking out of an ice cream shop

and one is licking her ice cream and one is sucking her ice cream

and one is biting her ice cream,

which one is married?"

And the teacher says, "The one sucking her ice cream."

And Johnny says, "No, the correct answer is

the one with the wedding ring, but I like how you're thinking."

[Laughter]

-I like that one. It was cute.

-Really? Okay.

Good.

[Laughter]