Original subtitles

So we are going to start this lesson

by asking the question, can a shy photographer

be successful?

My answer is, why awkwardness always wins.

A few months ago, I had a conversation

with a friend, and I admitted that I

was an introvert.

And then he laughed, but it wasn't even

like a laugh as much as it was

like a scoff.

And I was like, I am.

To which he replied, there's no way that

you are an introvert.

But my response was, I'm an outgoing introvert,

and there is such a thing.

Because a lot of times, people are just

like, there's just no way.

And the definition of an introvert and an

extrovert is that, in its most basic form,

is that an extrovert gets energy from being

around a lot of people, and an introvert

walks away depleted from energy by being around

a lot of people.

Now, I can handle a conversation, and I'm

not, you know, at a networking event, I'm

not in the corner being like, oh, nobody

will talk to me.

Like, I know who I am.

But I also know that in the same

vein, it takes a lot from me to

be in public settings.

Now, public speaking is something that I can

do.

I'm very proud to say and know that

I can teach photographers, and I can speak

to photographers, and to business owners, and to

young entrepreneurs.

I know that about me.

But I can tell you that at the

end of the day, I will take my

stuff, and I will sit in the car,

and I'll take like 10 deep breaths, and

JD will ask me a question, and I

will say, no, it is not in me

right now.

So these are the things that I know.

Now, having known this about myself, what people

see is 1% of who I am.

And they base their judgment on 100%

of who I am based on that 1%.

So I have to take a step back,

and I'm going to be very honest in

this section and talk about the struggles.

And I have come a long way in

my career in regards to my awkwardness, in

regards to being an introvert.

I was going to say introverticism, but I

just don't think that's right.

Being an introvert.

Now, being around people, it gives me energy,

but it also depletes me a lot of

energy.

Now, if given the choice, I probably would

choose reading a book over going to a

party.

I would choose practicing yoga.

I would choose taking a walk on the

beach.

Now, some people are listening to this, and

they're just like, what?

Are you kidding me?

I want to be at a bar.

I want to be at a concert.

I want to be out with people.

I want my weekend to be with three

different groups of people at three different times.

And I think to myself, if I look

at my calendar and nothing is planned that

day, I'm just like, yes, it's just me

day.

I get to work in my sweats, and

I get in with my computer, and I

get to listen to my music, and I

get to take a break when I want

to.

That stuff invigorates me.

And it's important not to hide behind it.

It's important to know this is who I

am, and then you can kind of build

up the energy to give off the energy

that you're going to need from your clients.

Now, I love my friends, and I love

being in social company.

So please don't think that on our lunch

break, you're like, can't talk to her.

No, I like it.

I love it.

I thrive off it.

But there is a balance.

There's definitely a balance.

Now, I actually wrote this out in my

blog, and I was being just really open.

I said that I am an introvert, and

it takes everything from me to actually give

it all to my clients on a wedding

day.

So then I got an email from a

reader, and he or she asked, if I

am shy or introverted, can I still be

a successful photographer?

And I thought that it was like a

deep and profound question, because somebody is asking

me, can I do it?

And far be it from me to give

somebody permission.

So I decided to talk a little bit

about why I think the answer can be

yes.

The most simple answer is yes, but there

is a however, and you knew the however

was going to come.

You can still be a successful photographer if

you're shy, but you might have to work

a little harder.

Now, I am by nature not a person

who will walk into a room and be

the center of attention.

In fact, I am completely the opposite.

I literally will cling to walls.

J.D. is the complete opposite.

Now, if you meet J.D. when we're

together, J.D. looks like the calm, passive,

docile, and I look like the, hey, guys,

how's it going?

It's like jazz hands all the time.

But that's the thing that comes out as

I teach, right?

But in reality, I walk in and I'm

just like, hi, okay, I'm okay, I'm okay.

And J.D. just effortlessly just moves through

the room.

At the end of the night, he met

the single, the one grandma in the room,

and she's like, call me for the goulash

recipe.

He gets invitations to go golfing.

He's making friends with a bartender who's making

him signature drinks under the table.

Like, that is the difference between our, what

people might perceive on the outside versus what's

going on in reality.

Now, I will tell you in full honesty

that I am past the point of being

a wallflower.

I am like the wallflower gardener, right?

I have always been a looker, a watcher,

and a waiter.

I prefer to walk into a room and

watch conversations to see, okay, okay, okay.

I know who I feel comfortable going and

talking with and engaging with.

I know who's going to make me feel

like less of a person.

I know who I'm going to go to

and feel comfortable with.

I'm going to approach that person.

That person looks like they probably read books

on the weekend.

That's who I wanna hang out with.

That's who I am.

But as a wedding photographer, I am not

afforded that luxury.

Now, I have been this way since I

was a child.

So for people who are saying, I've been

this way far too long, the answer is

you can always teach an old dog new

tricks.

Because I knew that when I started my

business, I understood that being shy, even though

it's innate characteristic, or being introverted, even though

it's innate characteristic, something had to change at

least a tiny bit.

After a few failed photo, I don't wanna

say failed, after a few not so great

photo shoots, in 2006, I realized that the

subjects in my photos looked lackluster.

And that is something really awful to say,

but I take 100% ownership because my

clients aren't lackluster.

I was just giving them nothing to do.

I was applying the same approach that I

had in childhood.

I'm going to wait for a photo.

I'm going to watch for a photo.

I'm going to wait until the universe aligns

and that perfect moment just happens.

And in my back of my mind, at

least not in maybe or maybe not intentionally,

I'm just like, it's gonna happen.

It's just wait for it.

And then I never did.

And I kind of went through the cycle,

like, oh, it's just that couple.

And no, it's just that couple.

And then I realized, yeah, no.

Let me save you some time.

You must give the thing you want to

get.

That is it.

So if you are shy, you need to

be more in that moment.

And if you are introverted for that moment,

step out of yourself to give the thing

that you want back to your client.

I know that it works.

When CreativeLive flew down to Orange County to

film a lot of the shoots that I

was doing, no, okay, let me actually take

this back even further.

I've been teaching with CreativeLive since 2010.

It has been a wild and amazing adventure.

I'm indebted to so much personal and professional

growth to this amazing organization.

Having said that, I have never seen any

of the courses that I've ever taught.

Because even when I see like a promo,

I'm like, do I sound like that in

real life?

I like, I turned to JD, I'm like,

I'm sorry you have to live with this

voice.

I mean, but with this course, it was

different.

I had to look through all of the

footage that we got so that I knew

how to frame, how to use teachable moments.

And watching that, I looked at myself as

if I was seeing myself as a different

person because I saw that and I'm just

like, that's me?

Like, who is that person who's like, yeah,

how's it going?

Okay, guys, great, awesome, awesome.

No, good, here, move here, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, that is a personality

that I take on to get what I

want, even though it is not natural to

me.

So let me encourage you that if you

might not be the person who shines in

the center of the room, on your photo

shoot, you must shine and you will shine.

Because as a byproduct of your shininess, people

reflect that as a result.

Now, one thing is that the best photographers

don't hope for a photo, they make a

photo.

They take what they have and then they

say, I'm going to make this better by

way of what I can infuse into it.

Now, I quickly learned that if I wasn't

capturing the types of photos that I wanted,

it was because I wasn't giving my clients

what they needed.

They need more encouragement.

They need a transfer of energy.

They need very specific directions.

If that is the one thing you walk

away from this lesson, that they need directions,

they need something to do and they need

a transfer of energy.

That is the very first foundation of the

things that you should apply.

Now, my clients show up to a shoot,

100% of my clients show up to

a shoot shy, nervous, introverted, they will sometimes

make comments of like, oh, well, I'm sure

the other people you work with aren't as

hard as we are, right?

So before they say those things, we as

photographers must stay in control to set the

pace.

Now, I cannot be a pace setter if

I'm going to take the role of being

a wallflower or the gardener of the wallflower

garden, right?

I can't, I'm not afforded that luxury to

be like, I'm sure, my clients say, oh,

I'm sure other people have done better or

they're more natural.

Well, I can't wait for that, are you

kidding me?

I need to go up to a shoot

and I need to stay in control and

I need to set the pace.

Now, I do this when I want to

stay in control, I will get in the

right headspace and I usually get into the

right headspace by listening to music.

Depending what I'm feeling like, the drive to

the shoot, I live in Southern California, I

shoot a lot in Orange County and Los

Angeles.

There is a lot of driving what I

do and that commute, I can make my,

I can feed negative energy.

Look at this jerk in lane three, right?

Or I can be like, I'm listening to

my podcast, I'm listening to Arcade Fire, I'm

feeling pretty good about what this jam is

doing for me right now.

I can get into that headspace, that helps

me stay in control.

I need to pre-visualize.

Now, we're gonna get into a very, we're

gonna get into a much deeper explanation of

what pre-visualization is in a future lesson

but suffice it to know that pre-visualization

is thinking about a photo in advance before

the photo even happens.

Before you have that opportunity.

So when I'm driving, I'm thinking about the

things that I can envision my clients doing.

Nine times out of 10, it may not

happen but just putting your brain in that

mode of, I'm positioning them here, the arm

goes here, the walking goes this, this here,

this here and if it's at a location

that I have never shot at before, my

imagination makes it limitless.

Oh, and then if there's a river and

if there's an archway and if there's a

door and if I can use the rule

of thirds, right?

It's just I'm having a conversation in my

mind to get me in the frame set

that I need to be.

Thirdly, I need to focus on articulating my

thoughts.

I will tell you that I place a

high value on conveying what I want to

convey but it is very difficult for me.

I grew up, I didn't learn how to

read until I was 11.

I was always really quiet.

My parents were the ones who kind of

became the mouthpieces for us but at home,

I was fine.

There's like this old, old cartoon like on

the WB network where there's this farmer and

he finds a frog and this frog sings

like, hello my honey, hello my darling, right?

And so he takes the frog to the

county fair and he's like, look, look and

he opens the box and it's like, ribbit,

okay?

My parents joke that my twin sister and

I were the WB frogs, right?

At home, we're like, hey and then in

public, we're like, so because I become flustered

in how I speak, because I become frustrated

in not getting the thing that I want

from my client, I practice what I'm going

to say in advance.

Maybe you're really good at it and it's

not a pressure point for you but I

know that being in a bad headspace is

weak for me.

I know that if I don't pre-visualize,

it's weak for me.

I know that if I don't think about

articulating my thoughts, it's weak for me.

So I'm looking at weaknesses and saying, how

can I address them the minute that I

go into a shoot?

And then lastly, I say a quick prayer

and yes, some of y'all might not

subscribe to the praying.

I do because I'm not afraid to admit

that sometimes I show up to shoots feeling

completely uncreative.

I show up to shoots feeling burnt out.

So I need to say, I need to

get in the right space so that I

can deliver what my clients have hired me

to deliver.

Whatever is happening in this outside space, it

is left at the door.

I need to show up and I need

to bat 1,000 for them and I

need to be fair to them.

And how I'm fair to them is by

doing the things that I need to in

advance to prepare me to play against those

things.

My natural inclinations when I'm stressed out is

to shut up and be shy.

I will actually say quite honestly, whoa, maybe

this is TMI.

JD and I don't really argue all that

much.

We just don't, not because we have a

great relationship, not at all.

It's just, it takes two people to argue

and whenever I feel it escalating, I'm like,

I got back to the WB frog, I

can't do it.

And because I know that that is a

natural inclination, when I become overwhelmed or really

frustrated on a shoot, I'll be like, and

then, can you, like, bring it on back.

You guys think it's funny, but I'm being

really honest with you guys.

And some of you guys maybe might not

experience this because you're just like calm, cool

as a cucumber when you guys get to

your shoots.

And I applaud you, tell me your secrets.

But for those of you guys who really

struggle with this idea of sometimes you're shy

and sometimes you're introverted, sometimes you're just awkward,

you feel me.

Okay, so knowing all those things, knowing how

I stay in control of the shoot, another

tip that I do to stay in control

is to arrive early at the location.

I want to know what I'm working with.

Even if I have shot at that location

before, I still arrive early.

And I arrive early because time of year

changes light.

Construction around the venue changes light.

If there's a sea, like there always is

in Orange and LA County, of photographers in

really great areas, you don't want to look

like it's like the Olin Mills of Laguna

Beach, right?

You have to do things that are different.

So by getting there early, you play to

your confidence.

And what I do is I create a

photo map.

And you're gonna hear me talk more about

this in a future lesson when we shoot

the engagement session.

But a photo map is me going and

saying, when the clients arrive, I don't want

to meet my clients and be like, hey

guys, where are we going?

Like I want to say, hey, I got

here early.

I walked, I found a few great places.

But before I get to make this about

me, talk to me about what you wanted.

Maybe a client every so often will say,

well, we really liked this area.

And I'm like, okay, awesome.

But most times clients show up and say,

well, we're here, whatever you think.

And so the last thing you want is

to walk and be like, well, let's just

walk.

Let's kind of see what's going on.

No, show up and say, great, I want

to start the session here.

I really love this area, but let's save

it to the end because sunset, we're gonna

get this beautiful golden light.

It's gonna be reflecting off the fields of

wheat.

It's gonna be amazing.

So you're selling their excitement.

You're telling them, I arrived early.

I'm in control.

I'm ready for this.

You tell me what you want.

Boom, let's collaborate.

We're ready to go.

Already before the camera has even been clipped,

my proclivity to introversion, to being an introvert,

my tendencies to being flustered when I speak,

my tendencies just to completely close down on

in and myself are subsided.

And then I know I play to my

strength and I'm ready to make a photo,

not just wait for it to happen.

Now, if you're anything like me, the thing

I want you to know is that your

success does not hinge on your shyness, but

it hinges on your ability to move past

your natural characteristics to be the type of

photographer you want to be.

You have to say, this is who I

am, but I'm ready to move forward.

I'm ready to make the changes that I

need so in order to start attracting the

client that I want, in order to have

a better client experience and to have better

client endorsements.

Now, speaking of becoming a confident photographer, I

received an email from a blog reader and

she asked me the following.

And yes, I have permission to share these

questions.

Dear Jasmine, I want to ask you a

question.

How the heck did you get all your

confidence with your clients?

I'm about to secure my first ever engagement

session and on one hand, I'm so excited

I can jump up and down all day

and on the other, I feel like I

could throw up with anxiety.

Did your confidence bloom over time?

I often have trouble telling my clients what

to do because I get overwhelmed easily.

Warmly, waiting for confidence to come.

This is my response.

Dear Waiting, well, before a formal answer comes,

we need to clear up a few things.

Confidence is somewhat a new idea to me.

For most of my life, I have been

the person who prefers watching, not engaging.

Y'all know that now.

I struggle in new social situations and I

find myself flustered when I can't walk into

a room and feel comfortable.

Still to this day, I get nervous before

I shoot clients.

Years into my business and the butterflies in

my stomach, they've multiplied.

Now that that's on the table, let's chat

about what we can do in spite of

how we feel and help our clients trust

our direction and ability to produce the type

of images we're proud of even when we

feel anxious.

I've discovered the following tips to be helpful.

One, let your clients unfold naturally.

So we're going back to how can we

be confident as a photographer?

First things first, let the clients do their

thing.

At the beginning of any session, I stand

back, like I kind of say, okay, guys,

we're gonna start here and you're gonna see

me do this in future lessons.

Hey guys, start right away here.

I kind of lightly position them and then

I see what their bodies do naturally.

Every couple has a different dynamic into what

they do, where her arms go, where his

arms go, where the weight falls into her

hips, if he leans into her, if she

leans into him.

I see what they do naturally and then

what I go through is I will go

through and make small changes.

I will close fingers, I will shift hair,

I will turn profiles.

So I see the natural components of what

it is and then make those slight modifications.

Now, second thing to make yourself confident on

a photo shoot is to follow clients on

social media.

Now, I know people feel differently about this

but I'm just talking strictly about my approach.

Yes, I do find my clients on Facebook

and yes, I do follow them on Instagram.

I like knowing what they're doing and whenever

I'm shooting, I'm talking to my clients behind

the lens and as I'm talking to them

behind the lens, it's helping me create a

really candid conversation because what happens is so

often I see photographers have the camera down

and they're talking to their clients and they

position them and then they walk back.

And they're like, oh yeah, guys, wasn't it

such a fun weekend?

Oh, that's so great.

I can't believe it happened to the dog.

Ha ha ha, awesome.

Boom, and then they shoot.

So the whole thing of the couple laughing

about what happened with their dog over the

weekend was completely lost.

So keeping the camera above my eye keeps

me more confident in soliciting the type of

conversation that I want but I will say

that the most sincere reactions come when I'm

making a personal connection to the couple.

So case in point, I was at a

recent wedding and I was posing the bride

and her bridesmaids and she had about five

on each side and I got the traditional

portrait, right?

So the bride in the middle, the girls

on each side and we had a couple

like just very safe photos and I felt

like I couldn't get from them because all

of them were just so concerned with being

like perfect.

And I'm like, okay guys, just relax.

So it was kind of like, I was

like, okay.

So then I was like, I have to

change my approach for this group.

I have the camera in front of my

eye and I'm talking to them and I'm

like, okay, great.

Everybody lean in.

Okay, this is awesome.

Lean in towards the bride.

So everybody's kind of leaning in and I

was just like, ladies, I know you can

do better than this because I saw the

bachelorette party photos on Facebook from Vegas and

they're like, oh my God.

Okay, that photo of them like laughing and

the after effect was far better than I

could have gotten through just natural coaching but

I wouldn't have known those things if I

wasn't invested with my clients in a quasi

personal level.

What they put out on Facebook is what

they put out to the large majority.

I'm not getting a private showing of their

inner workings, right?

They put out what they want people to

know.

I knew they went to Vegas.

I knew they got a little loud and

crazy and what resulted was a funny photo.

I like that.

It is reflective of my brand.

What can you do to kind of create

those connections with your clients to reciprocate the

same thing?

Thirdly, and the last point is to set

no expectations.

At the beginning of each photo shoot, I

tell my clients that I expect nothing from

them.

I really do.

I go to the session and I'm really

excited because a former bride, a former client

started her photography business before she got married

and then she got married and she hired

me to shoot her wedding and she's here

in the audience today.

I absolutely adore her.

So the thing that I think is tethering

me to this idea is that she can

tell you if I'm talking trash.

I cannot make up things that did not

happen.

So I can say that I started the

session by saying I don't want anything from

you.

Now she might have come into this and

this is all speculative.

She might have come into the session being

like, I'm a photographer.

I should know what I should do or

maybe Shane should be standing a certain way.

No, you're a photographer but in this moment,

you're my client.

You're a bride.

You turn off that little switch and I

say that to a photographer, imagine how much

more I'm gonna be saying to the average

girl who's walking up to me during our

session.

I start off by saying before I even

turn on my camera, I expect nothing from

you.

I take all responsibility for any photos that

come out.

So you take a deep breath.

You enjoy what this process has become.

Then I tell them the things that I

do want from them.

What I want from them is I want

them to have fun.

I want them to relax and I want

them to enjoy the process.

Now you all know that I spoke to

you this morning and I said the same

darn thing.

So I have to live by it.

Have fun, relax and enjoy the process.

I can't tell you the energy shifts, the

energy that shifts between us as photographer to

clients when I say I want nothing, I

need nothing but if you're game, I want

you to have fun.

I want you to relax and I want

you to enjoy.

People can do that.

All of a sudden, literally physically, their posture

changes and they're just like, we could do

that.

That's great.

Now what I think that I am doing

what I know that I'm doing is I

am giving my clients permission to just be.

Permission to be themselves exactly how they are.

I ended the letter by saying, I hope

this offers a little bit more insight into

how I work but more so what you

can do to bring out the true soul

of your subjects behind the camera.

Confidently, JSTAR.

Now what I've noticed after that email and

after these types of email conversations was that

sometimes people, this notion of permission is that

sometimes people just need the permission to be

like somebody to say, you're okay exactly how

you are right now.

And I think the permission is somewhat of

a weird concept because we lived our whole

lives being like, I don't need permission for

nothing, right?

I mean, or at least I did.

I mean, I don't know.

But there's this thing that happens when you

tell a person, I want you to be

you.

I want you to shine.

I want you to feel good.

Now, one of the things that I looked

for, the most things I was excited for

growing up and being adult was that I

can eat dessert before dinner.

And that when I go into my hotel

room, my mom would make us unpack our

suitcase.

Like we would go like somewhere cool.

We'd be staying at like, I mean, if

my family was going somewhere high class, we'd

spend the night like Holiday Inn Express somewhere

right off like a freeway.

And we're like, there's a pool here.

But before we can actually get to the

pool, my mom would say, you have to

unpack.

It sets the tone of this vacation.

And I'm like, oh my gosh.

And you wonder the ironic part?

My husband's the same way.

We arrived at the hotel and he has

to unpack everything.

And I'm like, oh my God, I married

my mother.

Okay, but on that note, there's this idea

that when I was a kid, the thing

I would say to myself was, no one's

gonna tell me what to do.

I'm gonna leave my suitcase out and I'm

gonna jump on the bed and I'm gonna

eat dessert because I thought to myself that

there's a notion of permission.

And what I realized is that this notion

of permission extends far beyond into our adult

life.

Sometimes in more practical terms, people need the

permission to be honest, even when it hurts.

People need the permission to be real, even

if it's awkward and more relatable for girls.

Some women, most women from my experience need

the permission to feel beautiful.

Now, it's a funny thing to kind of

even say because I've been thinking about this

for a really long time and kind of

talking about it.

And I can't say that all women, because

there is that rare species of females who

like walk in and own a room, primarily

like the seven foot blonde with blue hair

who sits like dressed entirely in spandex in

the front row of my cycle class.

I mean, this girl is totally okay in

her own skin.

Let me tell you.

But for most girls, you're uncomfortable most times

in general, but specifically in front of a

camera.

So when I want my clients to feel

confident, I need to tell them it's okay

to be confident.

I want my clients to bloom in front

of a camera.

I could not get them to bloom if

I was going to be the introverted or

shy photographer that it was, that I used

to be.

Now, when I shoot clients a few seconds

into the moment, so if I was shooting

a bride, I'd be working with you and

be like, okay, great.

I want to see what her body's doing

naturally.

Then I lower my camera and I tell

her that in this moment, it's okay for

you to look and feel beautiful.

You have your hair done.

You have your makeup done.

I love this outfit.

So I'm not behind my camera thinking, whoa,

what are you doing?

I'm behind my camera thinking, go.

You give me a hundred percent.

I will give you a hundred percent.

That is the conversation that I have with

my clients again and again.

I look at them in the eye and

I say, you give me exactly what you

want so that you get those photos.

And it changes it.

The permission to say, you are beautiful.

You be beautiful.

You rock your beautifulness.

That's what people need.

So often we as photographers, block ourselves from

saying those types of things.

Now, when I'm shooting, I'm looking for a

girl to explode in front of my camera,

to blossom.

When we end a session, if the bride

can walk back to her car with her

fiance and feel loved and feel radiant and

feel beautiful, I have done my job.

What we do is kind of like therapy

for the soul.

Our photos are a byproduct of how we

made somebody feel.

And if you made somebody feel good, she's

gonna look back at her photos and say,

in that moment, I felt great.

That right there is a powerful and fundamental

shift in how we approach for shooting for

our brand.

Now, if you're a photographer, I want to

encourage you to give permission to your clients.

But obviously you're not gonna go to your

clients like, I give you permission.

You have to kind of create it, put

it in a soft kind of conversational way.

And you might feel awkward as you're doing

it.

But that tiny second of feeling awkward pays

off in dividends for the entirety of the

shoot.

Remind your clients it's okay to let their

guard down, to get the types of photos

that they have wanted.

It goes a very long way.

Now, kind of looping this back, we started

off with, can a shy photographer be successful?

Then we kind of ventured into what we

need to do to overcome the shyness and

introverted tendencies.

Now, we're talking a little bit about why

I have learned that awkward always wins.

And so if you are awkward, fantastic, I

can speak to you.

If you find yourself like cool as a

cucumber in any social situations, then probably just

start doodling, write some notes, send me a

little letter.

Now, I was reminded of this fact when

I had the opportunity to go on a

hike with JD and my really great friend

from college.

We were in Oahu and we went on

a hike and we came down from the

hills and we stopped off at a cafe.

And while we were waiting for our drinks,

she and I were just recounting some of

the ridiculous things that we did in college.

This one time we lip sync in front

of our entire campus to a Beyonce mashup

and we thought we were like, oh my

God, we're so cool.

In this moment, Beyonce would be proud.

We also camped out for Justin Timberlake tickets

because again, we were epically cool.

And every story that we kept on telling

JD and maybe, because JD and I went

to different colleges and maybe like for the

sake of my sanity, I didn't share those

stories with him.

Like we were dating at the time, but

he was like, you camped out?

Like really?

And all of the stories ended with, oh

my gosh, what were we thinking?

Now, JD and I were in Hawaii to

shoot a wedding, but Ginger lives in Oahu.

So we had some time just to kind

of take some time and invest in ourselves

as well as invest in our business.

Now Ginger, my friend, my best friend from

college, she has a really great and tactful

way of talking about how awkward I am.

And if there's anybody who can attest to

my awkwardness, it's the girl who lived next

door to me for four long years.

Now, I didn't go to campus parties.

I just never understood the lore of the

Red Solo Cup.

I just didn't get it.

I didn't pledge the Greek system.

When I entered in my first year, I

dedicated myself to graduating with a 4.0.

So all of this really comes back down

to is like, I'm like one pen shy

of like rocking a pocket protector.

So I was just like, this is who

I am.

And she knew that.

She knew it in and out.

Now, Ginger said the following, you've always been

awkward, but don't you think that that's helped

you as a wedding photographer?

And then she went on to explain that

the awkwardness that I possess helps me identify

awkwardness in other people in uncomfortable situations.

I sat there and this conversation happened like

two years ago.

We're now almost into our 10th year of

business.

So I've got seven years of thinking that

my awkwardness was an impediment.

And for the first time I thought, oh

my God, you're right.

I'm like the awkward whisperer.

I know when it's coming.

And so because I can sense that stuff,

I'm just like, what?

And then I can kind of use myself.

I can remove myself from a room.

I can go in and I can kind

of run a little interference.

Another sports reference that I almost messed up,

but saved it at the end.

That in those uncomfortable situations, I am well

suited to ease it.

Now on a wedding day, I will not

be the first to admit that there are

so many uncomfortable situations.

We have shot weddings where divorced parents refuse

to speak to each other.

How are we supposed to deal with that

in family pictures, right?

We have to know these things.

We have to prepare ourselves.

We have to navigate these choppy waters.

There have been bickering in-laws to where

in-laws on both sides didn't want their

kids getting married.

And so they're just darting each other dirty

looks across the reception, that the moms couldn't

be in the same room when the bride

was getting ready.

And you're just kind of like, oh my

gosh, how do I navigate this?

But because I was aware, because I knew

of the situation, because I know how to

deal in those awkward situations, I kind of

dealt with it with grace and with ease.

And I've also shot weddings where bridesmaids and

even sisters of the brides, they don't actually

like the bride.

And they're all arguing, right?

So the girls all start as friends 10,

12 months before the wedding planning process.

And all of a sudden be like, that

girl didn't like that sweetheart neck.

And look at me in my asymmetrical dress.

Look at how awful I look.

And all of a sudden there's like this

going on on the other side of the

room.

And I'm just like, the bride's getting her

hair and makeup done.

I'm like, okay, okay.

I'm like, your hair looks great.

You look awesome.

So I'm trying to be like, the better

the bride's experience is on her wedding day,

the more she will like my photos.

It's all about being, it's all about protection.

It's all about using your awkwardness to protect

what that experience does for you.

And I'm proud to say that I've done

all of this without the help of a

red Solo cup.

Amen, rock your pocket protectors.

In that moment, I realized that Ginger was

right.

And I'm okay saying that.

I'm okay owning it entirely.

Because your awkwardness can be a strength as

a wedding photographer.

Because you are now well accustomed to dealing

with uncomfortable situations.

And the longer you do it, the better

you become at it.

So what I want you to do is

embrace your awkwardness.

I want you to embrace your sensitivity to

mercurial wedding day dynamics.

And I want you to embrace your pocket

protector.

Because it makes the biggest difference as a

photographer.

These are assets.

These are definitely not liabilities.

On that note, I want to talk about

questions that you might have in regards to

navigating situations and awkward situations.

I want to talk about things that you

could do to kind of empower yourself in

regards to that.

I think that homework for you would be

to cite what you think a liability is.

And then think, can I make this liability

an asset?

And then once you say, yes, then you

actually have to, the homework then begins then.

Is once you say, yes, I can make

it an asset.

Then you have to say, how?

How does that happen for me?

Are there any questions in regards to this

particular section?

Yes.

Oh, we have to get a mic.

Thank you.

I'm talking about brides and giving them permission

to feel beautiful.

Do you show them a picture to give

them that confidence?

Like they seem like they're really uncomfortable.

And what's worked for me is to say,

look at this, like how beautiful you look.

And all of a sudden they're like ready

to go and rocking the runway.

Do you do that?

A photo from behind my camera?

Yeah.

Never.

Never.

Never.

Never.

Because you know what?

I can't guess.

I cannot guess that she will look at

that and not see, oh, I have arm

fat.

Oh, that angle, this is not my good

side.

Oh, can I, can somebody get me hairspray

and put down these flyaways?

Oh my gosh.

I need, can somebody bring me lip gloss?

Like I don't need that.

What I do is I will mirror her

and I will like mirror her physically.

So I know this sounds like super, like

I like have like jewels in my house

and I collect kittens and porcelain figurines.

It's really like I talk about energy, but

you guys know what I'm talking about.

We go on a shoot, what people give

us, like what we get back, how we

navigate these waters.

So if I feel like my bride is

perpetually uncomfortable, like she's like, oh, well.

And I'm like, okay.

I'm like, I want to tell you right

now, you look beautiful, but I need you

to trust me that I'm going to make

you look more beautiful.

So I want you to shift your hips

this way.

I want you to turn your shoulders.

Take a deep breath.

Relax.

Drop your chin here.

Turn it to me now.

And as I'm saying this, I'm shooting.

Drop your chin.

Take a deep breath.

Look over at Dani.

Dani, do something silly.

And she's just like, Dani, my, may or

may not, the thing that results is her

like, like if I make her look like

she's having a good time and if I

give her the energy as I'm shooting her.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Dani, do it again.

Dani, I can't deal with this.

Oh my, oh, beautiful.

Exactly.

Perfect.

I love it.

Oh, thank you.

So good.

You're just on fire.

Let's go.

Don't give her time to not admit.

And here's the thing.

Let me take a step back.

This is my approach.

If your approach is showing her a photo

and that is your client and you feel

confident with that, you rock that.

I have a tendency of attracting brides who

overanalyze every single thing.

So I don't want to turn that power

over to them.

I don't want to lose time because she

has flyaways.

I don't want her to always think now

if she thinks she has fat arms, you

know what she's gonna do in every photo?

Right?

I don't want that.

It's gonna change the dynamic.

So you might attract brides who just, easy,

go, love it, trust you.

Perfect.

You rock it out.

There is not a right way.

I know what I attract and that probably

wouldn't work so well for me.

Yes, we'll pass the mic here.

Do you ever talk about like the awkward

elephant in the room?

Like if something weird is going on with

the bride, do you joke around with it

or do you just completely ignore it?

Like, give me an example.

Like, um, like someone's too drunk.

Like, do you joke about that with the

bride or like bridesmaids aren't getting along or

the mother, the future mother-in-law is

being overbearing?

That's a good one.

Like, they're like, oh, get a picture of

this, get a picture of this.

Or, you know, she's nitpicking the bride.

Like, do you kind of make a joke

of it with the bride?

And like to...

No.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, I pretty much say all those things

because I know, like, even in creative live,

like, I'll crack jokes and I'll be like,

well, that was funny.

And then I get an email.

It's like, that was so offensive.

So offensive.

Like, to the left arm farmers in Indiana

of Indian descent, you offended us all.

You know, it's just like, okay, like, and

that's a fictitious organization.

I do hope I do not offend the

one arm farmers in Indiana.

But it is not my job to be

the comedic relief.

It's my job to come in.

So in the cases that there are overbearing

mother, mother's-in-law, what I've seen, and

this is just a generalization, is that mother

-in-laws feel a little bit left out.

It's all, it's specifically during prep, right?

It's about the bride.

It's about the bride's mom.

Sometimes I've seen more often that the mother

-in-law is watching the bride get dressed

with her mom.

So sometimes women react in a way that

they want to just be noticed.

Like, just look at me.

Just look at me.

And so what I do, and in order

to, like, diminish or squelch that, I see

the dynamic of what's going on.

And then I'll say, like, to fictitious Danny's

mom, like, Mrs. Seymour, can I take you

outside?

I just want to take a great photo

of you.

I think that Danny, I think he'll love

it for years to come.

And all of a sudden, you elevate her,

and by elevating her, you actually calm her

down.

Be like, I'm going to get some great

photos of you and Danny, and let me

tell you something.

For the rest of the day, myself and

JD are your personal photographers.

So I know you have friends from out

of town coming, Indiana, right?

So they're coming from Indiana.

During the cocktail hour, you pull us aside.

We're going to be around the party until

10 or 11.

You set your cousins up.

You set your girlfriends up.

We're going to take very good care of

you.

That changes it.

And so all of a sudden, if the

bride notices that the squawker in the corner

calmed down, her experience is better.

She may or may not know that that

was me, and I'm OK with that.

Again, the better her experience is, the better

she likes my photos.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions?

I know there's a second mic.

We have a question here.

Yeah.

I was just going to ask, have you

had clients after your shoots or weddings or

whatever actually approach you like maybe they're just,

they struggle with their own appearance or whatever,

and they actually don't like what they look

like in your photos, even though you've kind

of brought out whatever you can to make

them look beautiful?

And what do you do in that situation

when they just have maybe something about themselves,

like maybe it's their arms or whatever, and

they're just like, I just don't like my

arms.

And yeah.

So then what do you do in that

situation?

OK.

So I will say that for me, I

try in advance.

I think it's very important for us to

pick up social cues before the editing has

even begun.

Because a girl just doesn't look at her

photo and then randomly is struck, oh my

gosh, my arms look big.

She will probably, throughout the course of it,

make some sort of reference.

At least my brides do.

They're like, can you Photoshop my arm?

The minute I say that, it's like red

flag, red flag.

Because of that, I will do things that

will save me time in post.

If I think that my bride is self

-conscious of her arms, a lot of the

poses will be the two of them.

And then where's the groom's hand or her

fiance's hand?

Boom.

Instant Photoshop.

Right?

I don't have her arm smashing here.

In posing, I will have the groom take

a step in front of her or behind

her.

Why?

Arms here don't look as good as arms

here.

Arms here.

But to give a bride an arm here,

awkward.

And to stay away from that kind of,

forgive me, I'm just going to rub people

away, there's like this cliche that I did

for years.

I rocked the cliche.

OK?

I owned that cliche.

And now that I get moving more in

my business and in my style, I realize

that that's not what I like.

And I know that's not what editors like.

How often have you looked through a wedding

magazine or a feature or a blog and

the bride's like this?

No.

It doesn't happen.

It's the natural stuff.

So try to think of that type of

things in advance and then also in post.

My rule of thumb when it comes to

retouching bulges, extra skin, things like that, is

if it was my pose that accentuated the

thing she does not like, I will fix.

If it is I gave her the strongest

pose and it is what she looks like,

that is what you get.

I'm not in the business of reconstructing you.

I will eat it if I did something

that compromised it.

But other than that, no.

So thinking in advance of that.

And then have there been times where a

client like, I got an email from a

client.

She's like, I love it.

She made like save the dates.

She made, hey, we're getting married.

She made 60 day invites, 30 day.

I mean, she just used her photos for

everything.

And I was like, oh, this is so

amazing.

And then we ended up like having an

email correspondence.

And then she was just like, I can't

believe that half the photos I was making

the face that I was doing.

What was I thinking?

And I was like, half your photos, half

your photos, you were making a face that

you didn't like.

And yet you're the bride who I've never

seen use my photos as much for engagement

photos.

So it prompted me to say, what was

it about your face that you didn't like?

I mean, that sounded awful, but I did

it way more nice.

And in the email, it was very pleasant.

It was softened, but I needed to know.

And then I told her, I was like,

I need to know that for your wedding

day, what things I should stay away from.

So it prompted the conversation to change.

So I don't know if that answers your

question, because once things are done and said,

it's kind of like, well, what do you

do?

It's you either offer another session if it

was that bad, but you also want to

protect it and stand by.

It's like, I did everything.

Now, let's talk about what we can do

for your wedding.

That's the kind of change in the conversation.

Okay, cool.

We'll give you the mic and then we'll

take your question because you have the mic.

My question is kind of off of her

question about making jokes with the bride about

potentially awkward situations.

I had a bride a couple weeks ago

who just kept apologizing to me for things.

And I try to take kind of a

hands-off approach during the getting ready and

everything.

So it kind of made me wonder like

what I was doing to make her feel

at ease without being overly involved and without

making it awkward for her.

So I was just kind of wondering like

what you would do in that situation and

what you feel like possibly is being presented

to make her feel the need to apologize

to you, but still be hands-off.

That's a great question that has happened way

more than I would like to admit.

So knowing that situation, I'll take a few

steps back.

Her apologizing to you is a reflection of

what's going on inside.

She's trying to like lessen that awkward mom

who's drunk before 10.

She's trying to lessen the fact that she's

not connected with her bridesmaids.

She's trying to lessen the fact that she's

so wildly nervous to be on her wedding

day.

So we have to take that and we

have to digest it and say, it is

not us personally.

By near physical proximity to where she is,

she turns to you as a photographer.

A photographer is around the bride more than

the wedding coordinator is, right?

So she might have connected personally far more

greater with her coordinator, but you're with her

every step of the way.

So she's going to turn to you like

an ally.

And so everything that happens because you have

seen beginning, middle, middle, middle end of all

the snafu, she's like, I'm so sorry, I'm

so sorry.

I will let the I'm sorry's go throughout

prep because she's just going around and she's

flustered.

It's not time to have a conversation.

I might even let the I'm sorry's go

throughout her and her bridal party.

When it comes to the I'm sorry's, because

she's already warmed up to the I'm sorry.

So now I feel substantiated in making this

request.

And I tell her, Amy, you've said I'm

sorry like a thousand times today.

I do this every weekend.

Your wedding is so perfect.

It's so perfect.

You don't know how perfect it is because

you've never been a bride before.

So you just trust that this craziness is

part of the process.

So you stop apologizing.

Or else, every time you say I'm sorry,

you owe me a shot at the reception

and I will be completely drunk and you

will not have any photos from the rest

of your day.

And it's a joke I have never, and

then it's like caveat so I don't get

another email.

I have never been drunk, nor have I

ever partaked in alcoholic beverages at a wedding.

But I will say that it tells her

what I want her to say.

And I kind of add levity.

So maybe a little bit of comic relief.

I add levity to it.

But by that time, she has said it

enough that I could substantiate the request and

say, I see it.

Reassure her that her day is nothing to

be embarrassed of.

And then I say, I'm being serious.

No more apologies.

And then we just go on from there.

I sound like I'm a tough cookie, right?

I do.

It's like the Puerto Rican in me.

Let me tell you something, mommy.

Shut up.

OK.

OK.

Question.

Yes.

So you're a shy photographer and you're at

a wedding.

And you get those wedding guests or wedding

party members, like a bridesmaid, who keep telling

you what to do and what to shoot.

Oh, you should use a flash.

And you should do this.

And how do you deal with that?

It comes in different forms.

I think in about 10 years, there was

just one wedding where I had somebody who

was behind my shoulder.

And then she had a point-and-shoot.

Or it was a point-and-shoot or

her phone.

And I would set up the bride's shoes.

And she'd be like, oh, I love this

photo.

And I would be down shooting it.

And she'd be right above me.

Like literally, I'd be on the floor.

And she'd be, oh, I love it.

Like, OK.

I was like, OK.

She would be like, the bride's mom would

be zipping her into the dress.

And then she would say, oh, hold on.

Bring it back down.

Bring it back down.

Let me do it again.

But that was kind of an extreme.

And that's not what I get too often.

I do get quite often, oh, go get

the flower girls.

They're playing.

And I will either adhere to that if,

in that point, I'm just looking around for

something to shoot.

Or I will say, oh, I just shot

them.

If I feel like I've seen that JD

has shot them or is at another point.

Or if I have a long lens, I'll

be like, I just shot them, right?

Because we know what we have done and

curated up until that point.

Now, there has been a point to where

there's been the traditional Uncle Bob, who kind

of does a lot.

And just a couple weeks ago, oh, this

is off topic.

OK, a couple weeks ago, I was at

a wedding.

And the bride's brother-in-law is starting

a new online business.

And his online business is getting home cameras.

And you just film things as they happen.

And you turn over all that footage to

a company in India.

And then they make a video for you.

So he wanted to be the videographer for

the wedding day with no experience and an

old-school flip video camera.

And he kept on saying, oh, OK.

I'll give way too much if I kept

saying the references that he was making.

So I had a conversation with him at

the beginning of the day.

And I said, I just need to make

sure that I have the first angle.

You can hang out with my second shooter.

But you must remain over his right shoulder

at all times.

So we set the round rules.

We did the first look.

I saw her coming.

And he was just there trying to do

a pano shot of her.

And I was just like, oh, no, no,

no, no.

So instead of me being the bad person,

who do you think I asked?

JD.

I was like, JD?

And here's the thing.

I wasn't even nice to JD about it.

I was like, JD, handle it.

And for those of you who have met

him, if you guys will meet him in

the next couple days, I can be like

steam coming out of my ears.

And I'll be like, hey, man, can I

have you back up?

You'll stay right here with me?

Awesome.

I'll show you.

Yeah.

So he'll ease it.

And then I'm shooting it.

Now, it got to such a point throughout

the rest of the day that I felt

like he was just balk, balk, balking.

And so then finally, I had stopped.

It was during family formal before the ceremony.

I said, OK, everybody, can everybody please, fictitious

name, look at Uncle Jim.

Uncle Jim's going to shoot to his heart's

content.

I will not be having my camera.

Uncle Jim is shooting.

So Uncle Jim, why don't you tell them

what to do?

And you get what you need so that

I can have everybody look at me.

I'm putting him in check politely in front

of my bride and groom.

Who they swore up and down that Uncle

Jim will not be in my way.

Uncle Jim was like a bee that was

stinging me every five seconds.

And so when you turn that over to

him, because he kept saying, oh, this is

so great.

No, this is great.

He was like, oh, OK, guys.

How about you kiss?

Great.

You get that.

You get that photo, Uncle Jim.

You rock that photo.

And then he'll say, OK.

And then 30 seconds, maybe he turns around.

He's like, OK, I'm done.

Like, awesome.

So for the next 30 minutes, can I

have you just hang out?

You can stay behind, JD.

Or you can maybe just take a little

bit of break, and I'll handle it.

Like, does that mean?

Probably.

But I'm like, whoa, homie.

We need to bring this back down.

So giving them time.

So the moral of the story is give

people time and space to get the shot

that they need.

Acknowledge it publicly.

And I do this a lot during family

formals.

That I will arrange a family.

And I get it.

Grandma and her disposable camera thinks that she's

going to take the most rocking family picture

of all time.

It's not my rodeo.

It's my bride and groom.

So I will say, oh, Grandma, come here.

Come here.

Why don't you stand where I'm going to

stand?

So what people are seeing, me respect Grandma.

Give Grandma space.

Because who do they like more?

Me or Grandma?

Grandma, right?

Grandma, take your photo.

And then I say, can everybody please look

at Grandma's camera?

And then Grandma's like, one, two.

And that's great.

I'm like, thank you so much.

I'm like, anybody else want to take pictures?

Anybody?

OK, because I need everybody looking at my

camera.

I would like for everybody to be looking

at my camera.

I'm looking, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, I give J.D. the

eye.

And then J.D. gets Grandma.

She starts talking to him.

Like I said before, she will give him

a goulash recipe at the end of the

night.

That's J.D. rocks the grandmas.

And then I'm like, everybody, please look here

at me.

So it's kind of about giving them space

and then making a public request that it's

my time.

Great.

Are there any other questions?

Yes.

Going back to the awkwardness and being a

bit of an introvert and groups, weddings is

literally nothing but groups of people, tons and

tons of people.

And you have to crowd control.

And sometimes it can be really overwhelming when

those people don't know you and have no

idea who you are yet.

When I approach a wedding day and I

show up in the reception, and that's the

first time I've had a chance to actually

interact with the guests, I find myself really

awkward.

And I don't know how to introduce myself

and get to know these people in a

comfortable way, because they're going, who is this

chick?

And yeah, I've seen you photographing the bride

and groom.

It's like some people just don't have a

respect for the fact that I want to

be there for them, too, not just the

bride and groom.

Do you know?

Yes, I do.

Let's take it back further.

Because if you're making a formal introduction of

yourself and your face at the reception, I'm

going to say that it's too late in

the day.

By that time, they've already gone through at

minimum two drinks during cocktail hour.

The appetizers didn't roll out when they were

supposed to.

So everyone's feeling a little tiny buzzed, right?

At that time, you're not going to want

to go to somebody when they're hangry and

slightly drunk and be like, let me take

a portrait that's going to be amazing, right?

That has to happen, or how we approach

it is we want people seeing us before

the ceremony starts.

We're going to talk about the timeline of

what the wedding day looks like in a

future lesson.

We're going to get to that.

But just suffice to know, when guests start

arriving, we want to shoot the ceremony location

undisrupted.

So we shoot that.

And then instead of running back to the

bride, who's probably just sitting there drinking with

her friends, we're shooting guests as they come.

Guests as they come.

And this serves two reasons.

One, it makes us familiar with who the

guests are.

Two, we get to see who the power

players, I say power players, that's probably really

rude, you know, the cousins, the godparents.

Okay, we get to see who the power

players are.

And we also get to diversify the portfolio.

Because the mistake that I used to make

early in my career was that clients would

get back and be like, oh, I wish

I had more pictures of our friends.

And the pictures that they would get would

all be on the dance floor.

And by that time, everyone's sweaty, barefoot, a

little not so good looking.

So if we can diversify the portfolio in

a way that makes them happy, we're killing

a lot of birds with a single stone.

And then people get portraits that they end

up sharing on Facebook from probably my gallery.

And we'll talk about how we do that

in a minute.

So those types of photos actually work far

better for our marketing, for introduction, and for

the bride and groom.

Yeah, I was going to say thank you

for mentioning that because that was another thing.

I know that utilizing weddings is a great

way for word of mouth because there's so

many people that you get to meet.

And they get to see your photos.

And they have photos of them that they

can share of your work.

And that's so powerful.

But I find my problem right now is

I guess I feel like a hermit.

And I show up to the wedding day.

And I want to photograph these people and

give them amazing images that they can use

for their profile pictures and talk about the

wedding day.

But like I said, I just can't bring

myself to talk to those people and be

like, hey, I want to photograph you and

get you a nice profile photo, you know?

Well, I probably wouldn't say that.

Because if you say I want to photograph

you for a nice profile photo, even though

that's what you ultimately want, I wouldn't say

that because it kind of puts me in

the position of a novice photographer.

Because people get their profile photos updated by

their iPhones, by their friends, you know, in

Lake Havasu.

So what I want to do is I

believe that something happened to my life to

me 10 years ago, where the person who

I was, the person who couldn't go up

to a person, a person who couldn't be

in control or comfortable talking to somebody randomly,

when I had a camera in my hand,

I had a freaking passport to social interaction.

So on a wedding day, when people are

sober and they're walking down and you're smiling

and I wear a satchel, a side bag,

you know, like I'm wearing flat shoes, I

don't really look like a guest, right?

Have a nice camera like, hey, how are

you?

I'm a photographer.

Can I take a photo for you?

For you?

Of you?

Both.

I don't know.

Whatever I'm feeling like at the moment.

And then they might say, OK.

And then to show my professionalism, if the

light isn't good, I will say one of

two things.

Can I have you stand this way?

And I don't say the light is better.

Like, oh, I really love this background.

Or, oh, can I have you stand here?

And all of a sudden, they make these

slight modifications as they're walking down with a

glass of water.

So can I hold your glass of water?

Oh, that's fantastic.

Can you remove your sunglasses?

The things that I made, those changes that

I made, made me look like a legit

photographer and I didn't have to say anything.

I like that.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

OK, let's go.

Let's go right over here.

We'll give.

OK, we'll pass the mic.

Awesome.

Earlier, you talked about how you're an introvert

and you derive your energy from being by

yourself or with Polo or JD.

So from, I still work full time and

I have two kids and so I'm a

little busy.

But do you sort of block out time

specifically to do those things in your schedule

and make it a priority for yourself?

Is that part of, like, your business plan

or your goals for yourself?

That's a good question.

Thank you.

The answer to that question is yes and

yes and yes.

Now, I understand that being a mom changes

that.

All of a sudden, all my selfish tendencies

will go out the door, out the window,

off the roof.

I get it.

But for right now, because I do not

have children, I absolutely make time for myself

and I prioritize it in such a way

that I want to make sure that it's

a pattern or a behavior that I really

take on with me when the opportunity for

me to become a mother happens.

I practice yoga every day.

That's my time.

That is a space that I have carved

out to bring my mind back down, to

do a lot of self healing.

I will absolutely admit that the past few

years have been really hard for me and

diving deeper into just taking time for self

care has been amazing.

I also have had some, like, health issues

and two years of going back and forth

to doctors and people saying different things.

And then I went to an acupuncturist in

Newport Beach and I started acupuncture and then

she had said, you need to start taking

hot baths with Epsom salt.

And I was like, oh, I don't do

baths.

Would you believe baths with Epsom salt have

changed my world?

Changed.

So between yoga and a hot bath, I'm

giving myself about 75 minutes of me time.

Almost every day.

I do yoga every day.

I take a bath.

I try to every day, if possible.

That time brings me back down to completely,

it's on me, on my mat or in

my bathtub.

That is it.

It is the greatest gift that I can

give myself.

I'm a better wife.

I'm a better daughter.

I'm a better business person because I'm taking

care of my insides before I can give

other people the limited things I might have

as an introvert.

It's a great question.

Thank you so much for asking it.

On that note, thank you guys again for

being here.

I'm really excited for what's in store.