Original subtitles

what we do know is that a 9-1-1 call was

placed at about 10 p.m this evening and

that this is the home of the menendez

family police spokesman will be getting

a statement in about 30 minutes

and what we've been able to gather so

far the bodies of recording industry

executive jose menendez and his wife

kitty were discovered by their two sons

when the boys returned home tonight

one officer we spoke with said off the

record that the couple may have been

shot as many as 20 times but department

spokesman aren't confirming that for the

time being

[Music]

[Applause]

uh i don't think this is such a good

place to talk

we say we go outside huh

[Music]

give me a good idea

you're lyle

that's right

you tell me what happened

my brother and i we went to a movie

we're going to meet some friends but

eric forgot his id

so

driver's license oh fake id he's

underage

so we figured we'd order some drinks and

uh

we came back to pick it up and uh

we found uh

that anybody see you at this movie you

were at

batman century city

i'm sure someone did

shouldn't be any problem then

you guys uh don't have any idea who

might have want to do something like

this for your parents

um my father is in the music business

there was

some of the some of the acts that he

signed

you know he got them off drugs

i mean

i mean that that was a big deal with my

father he didn't like drugs and um

i mean he kicked the dealers out you

know i'll show you so you think one of

these guys might it's possible you ought

to check on it

uh

there might have been um

i don't know how you say it uh or

organized under underworld organized

crime connections

[Applause]

can't tell when i'm dead right now

all right are we looking at another

mansion here

was shot six times

protection

is there a motive

here

did you see it out there yeah so what do

you have i mean what can i tell the

reporters

tell them anything

it's not a viable alternative

and you figure it out

look detective i've got to give them

something what do we have

we got two dead bodies

come in please

this really isn't what i wanted

what you want you don't even know what

you want that's why you're in the state

that you're i know that i don't want to

be pawed over oh i really don't have

time for this kind of nonsense

you heard about the murders last night

he was on the radio

you know who those people were

he's in the record business or something

my patient patience is plural they're

two sons

they're my patients

no one is using the term execution

according to a copy of the medical

examiner's report we've been able to see

that may be precisely what happened at

the beverly hills home of record company

executive jose menendez and his wife

kitty sunday night this is the

presidential

it's solid gold i think you can safely

say it's the ultimate watch i don't

think you could say that

what do you think i could uh wear to the

memorial service

i don't i don't know we'll take it with

tax it will be slightly over 13 000 of

course uh

we'd also like to see something in

stainless steel you know for every day

yes

two of them

what did my father believe in

let me read you a letter that he wrote

me when i was away at school

i believe

he wrote

that both you and eric make a difference

i believe that you will

i encourage you not to select the easy

road

i urge you to walk with honor

regardless of the consequences

and to challenge yourself

to excellence

my father believed in excellence

he believed in accomplishment

show me what you can do

that was my father's creed

that was how he brought us up

to show him what we could do

and to believe in ourselves

to know that great things are possible

for a man daring enough to try

that's my father's legacy

and i will always be grateful to him for

that

i loved him

i loved him very much

he was a great man

a great man

um

all right i i just

want to thank all of you for coming

i uh

i think about

my dad and my mom and what it would have

been

like my mom she was um

just

to see all of you here today

for her

thank you

thank you

why don't you ride with us okay

you said i would never be able to fill

my father's shoes

you make your own footsteps lyle

don't be concerned with filling your

father's shoes you don't understand

these are my father's shoes

[Music]

return with us now to those thrilling

days of yesteryear

i really liked it here

no problem kid rather move some of the

stuff back

sell the other place

let somebody else clean the blood off

the walls

[Music]

so have you decided where you're going

at ucla i guess they have a great tennis

program

dad kind of figured i wasn't going

anywhere with the swimming but

i don't know i think you ought to go

there don't take your mind off things

yeah

yeah definitely

you know it's so unexpected that you

don't have time for the usual

reaction and

of course it leaves me responsible for

this state eric

god isn't that hard

in a sense uh

on the other hand i've been waiting so

long to be in a position like this that

this transition comes easy

anybody the idea that it was a hit

mess like

that in the head

it's not a mobby

then what cult

i don't know

what do you think

bloody enough but that's about

it so what does that lay

the kids

the kids

you know you guys ought to call them aid

service get this place cleaned up i

could get some numbers from my mom you

guys should hire a couple he can take

care of the grounds

i don't know

what you don't know about the grounds

you don't know if we need full-time help

both

you guys still eating i thought we're

supposed to play at 10 o'clock

we're not on standard time buddy can i

get you anything correct coffee guess

maybe we can play some doubles

wow why did you say we don't need any

help

because we might not be staying that's

why eric

i don't think this place is right

it's too big it's out of the way

i'm thinking maybe an apartment condo

lyle this is a great house

oh he's sulking but i like it here lyle

no

place with a health club tennis pool

nothing's decided but uh i'm looking

into it

enjoy your tennis

and work on that forehand

did you get all that is he for real or

what what are you talking about he

hasn't decided he's going to look into

it he's your brother eric not your

father you don't know what you're

talking about so just shut up he's just

taking over i lied shut up

all right he's my brother

and i don't need you or anybody else

questioning it

is that clear

i was thinking of selling the computer

and i think i heard that even if i

erased the file someone could get them

back that's right see the way a file

allocation table works all right look is

there a way you can erase them so no one

can get them back no one can know

they're over there all you've got to do

is tell me what you want to raise

although police continue to trace the

possibility that the brutal murders of

record executive jose menendez and his

wife kitty in their beverly hills home

was the work of organized crime sources

in the department admit they're coming

up empty

according to these sources

the brutality of the killing seems

inconsistent with a gang land pit

you want to get the hell off my property

keep rolling we're just filing a story

uh you're eric menendez aren't you move

the truck if you could answer a couple

no no questions turn your cameras off

just a couple of questions mr menendez

people are really sick you know that

they feel like ghoulish

don't you think i've suffered enough

this ought to do it in just a second the

program searches through erased files

active files every inch of the disk

wipes everything when you're done can

you fix it so no one knows you were here

wild

up here

there's some reporter out front i know i

saw them you just let him stand there

just doing his job what are you doing

here

nothing what are you doing here just

finishing up a few things

it's done

clean as a whistle

i appreciate it

you'll take a check sure

i know this seems a bit odd not at all

if there's anything else i can do

there won't be

wow what's going on

just making sure dad hadn't started

writing up any other wills

oh did he

we'll never know now will we

get it let the machine get it

uh i'm just gonna see who it is

suit yourself you've got your own car

this is five five five two three eight

zero no one is available to take your

call now please leave a message at the

toe

[Music]

my lord eric i was helping to catch you

in this is dr rosio i got your message i

want to die for my condolences and if

there's any way i can help you i know

how hard all of this must be on you and

how much it could help you if you had

someone to talk to you've got my number

i just i wanted you to know i'm

available

[Music]

[Applause]

it's an awesome view huh

[Music]

awesome

yes

took the word right out of my mouth

and of course there is the health club

two pools squash and tennis courts

is there anything else i can show you

you know what's the matter with you

you're drifting you got to pull yourself

together well i'm fine

you sure

okay i'll tell her what to take the

place

you know

dr ozil called the house

maybe you and me we should we should go

see him

why would we do that just just to get

something straightened out

i mean he says after something like this

we don't need that we're not weak

oh i am

i can't get it out of my head and you

think it helps to wallow you need

something to focus on

maybe you ought to get serious with your

tennis

i'll see what i can set up

[Music]

ah

jeez

concentrate

lyle

i told danny and bob we were gonna meet

him at the theater

where are you going

princeton

i thought we weren't going to school

i already notified ucla i wasn't

enrolling i didn't say i was going to

school princeton is a town not just a

university there's more there

like

what

opportunity

the point is i wasn't joking you just

didn't take me seriously

it's just kind of hard to imagine you're

running a restaurant lyle

you've never even boiled yourself an egg

frank lloyd wright wasn't a bricklayer

what's your point

none

i don't have a point i never do do i

i'm sure you'll be a magnificent

restaurateur

really i can hardly wait

you don't have to

watch

[Music]

[Music]

my identity

[Music]

coming

worlds to conquer

it's not just the brutality of it of

course

my dad was such a

an irreplaceable man

he had a kind of drive that was unique

he was a great

man he's my role model

he'll always be my role model a lot of

our readers knew your father from when

you lived here

they're concerned

they'll want to know how you're handling

this tragedy there were initial

hysterics

i mean who would want to do this to our

parents you know

then after that night was over

i sort of

entered into my dad's sort of mode

kind of an esp sort of thing

i just took over his position in the

family

come on eric we got to do something

why

i don't know i mean jeez

craig my whole life i've been doing

something

so maybe i don't want to do anything

right now

all right all right

just take it easy

you know you're right

you're right

we to do something right

well what would dad say

tennis he probably suggests we go play

for tennis come on eric i didn't what

you didn't mean tennis

fine like let me say we write a script

craig

well i got a million ideas just take

them down craig let's go get something

out here you want to do something we're

going to write

what do you want to do you want to do

another murder all right now cut it out

oh you're right you're right it's a

bunch of crap right it's a bunch of

fiction for god's sake

i mean what do we need fiction for when

we have real murders

you know that don't you

he's real murderous

it's real murders craig

okay take it easy

you want to know what happened

mom and dad

were in the tv room

i was standing there with this gun

and he said let's do it

he said let's do it

we're looking for a younger clientele

that's what these lights are for that's

what the new banquettes are for that

means a lighter menu quick quick

it's not until your stuff it's light

quick and healthy so hard for people

here in the east to understand

get fried get cream sauces

nouveau cuisine that kind of that's the

idea but you don't have to think french

i want originality this isn't a french

restaurant it's not an italian

restaurant write me up a list of dishes

and let me see it i know you can do it

talented man all right

you advertise for waitresses i did

coming

well good morning

just getting up

i was supposed to meet you at the

restaurant i know but i finished

practice early so

a while

we're having quite a party aren't we huh

stop it

i hired them as waitresses

what and they just couldn't wait

clever very clever

they didn't have anywhere to stay i

slept on the couch do you expect me to

believe that that's up to you now i'm

going to get dressed and we can talk on

the way to the airport the airport

i'm going back to california

you didn't tell me that

i'm telling you now that should be

adequate

i wish i had more to tell you

but so far we haven't been able to turn

up anything

i guess

that just happens sometimes huh

it does

i was uh hoping that maybe uh now that

you have more chance to think about it

maybe you can remember something no i uh

really don't see how we can help you

more than we have

any new information would help i mean

anything you guys can think of i've been

busy uh i just got back from princeton

i've started a business

if we had thought of anything before we

would have told you wouldn't we you

don't seem very interested i appreciate

your concern but i have a lot to do sir

more important catching the man who

killed your parents

i understand where you're coming from

it would be great if whoever did this

went to jail

but it doesn't really help us in any way

does it

thank you

you've never driven a porsche before

have you

i have an alpha but you know that's just

a piece of junk nothing handles like a

porsche there's nothing really

comparable

no there isn't you just do the paperwork

i'll write you a check

[Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

hello

[Music]

hi hi it's um it's eric menendez

hi um

i uh

i thought about what you said

of course

no no no no if that's the way you feel

then the sooner that we get together the

better

i'm not at the office i had the calls

forwarded i can

be there 10 minutes 20 minutes

eric eric

that's what i'm here for you you need to

talk i'm here don't worry about that

i'll meet you at the office as soon as

you can make it

[Music]

that was eric he's gonna meet me at the

office

what's four what for

what for

to tell me that he killed his parents i

assume

eric oh thank god you're here he's not

here yet look

do me a favor

don't leave

wait here like you were waiting for one

of the other doctors if there's any

trouble trouble

he killed two people judalan so if you

hear anything that sounds dangerous

you call the police i better get back to

my office

my life could depend on it so i don't

want you drifting off or fall

that's the elevator

so

oh i thought i heard the door come on in

eric she's waiting for for another

doctor there i know how upset you are

but we'll we'll have all the time

we need to talk about this

did you uh

did you talk this over with your brother

or uh

did you decide to come here no i am

i mentioned to him that

i was thinking about seeing you but

he didn't think it was a good idea

i can't sleep

are you having nightmares

i keep

i keep waking up

and my dad's

is standing over me

he's all he's all bloody

[Music]

and he's just

he's

he's just standing there staring at me

and i

i can

i can make him i can make him go away

but if i try and go back to sleep he

he comes back and

i'm so

sick of

crying and

can we

can we go outside or somewhere else

besides here

you know we killed you

yes

[Music]

it's perfect crime

[Music]

that was awful

this is his body's

blood

skin

but i just kept shooting

he was a very controlling man

i want to write a book about my father

somebody should write a book about him

he was a great man

he doesn't want me to talk about it

you'll have to tell him that you did

no

you have to

he'll know that you talk to me you can't

hide anything

hello

wow

[Music]

thank you

[Music]

do you have an appointment

we won't be long i'm sorry

[Music]

you bastard

you're weak

that's what you are

you know brother of mine

i know you betrayed me

what the hell are you going i didn't

betray you i just

you killed us don't you know that

you weak whining pathetic excuse

now what are we gonna do

we have to kill him

you know that

wait wait wait wait a minute i i can't i

can't tell anyone what he said unless

you threaten it's privileged but not if

you threaten me that's not privileged

you're not going to tell anyone right

i wouldn't do that

why would i do that i want to

help you i'm trying to help you

the hell with all of you

i mean remember we had trouble with the

burglaries he helped us out

so you just went and told him everything

i had to talk to somebody

i mean i was going crazy

it's gonna be fine

it is

i'll just go see him a couple times and

i'll be fine

how's the restaurant

[Music]

i think we got a chance to talk

you're gonna go back soon

no

i'm gonna stay and keep an eye on you

[Music]

mr cignarelli

all right

really glad you could come

really appreciate this

come on let's find some christmas stuff

i don't feel like

please friend aren't you

what can you tell me about

what you like

he's a nice guy

he's a terrific athlete

he's smart i like him a lot i don't know

what to tell you

how did he get along with his parents

did they fight a lot

i guess i'm sure i don't know

did you ever hear him say anything about

wishing that his parents were dead

or anything like that

look

i'm not sure what i should say

i mean i didn't talk to my dad or a

lawyer or anything what are you under

any apprehension that you're suspect in

this case no

no of course why would you need a lawyer

i didn't say i needed a lawyer i just

i don't know okay he's a friend of mine

that's all i just i don't want to say

anything

to get a friend in trouble

what kind of trouble

look i don't know what i'm supposed to

do here

we're friends that's all friends that's

all

and friends do things together huh

well what kind of things did you do

together

i don't know

tennis

swimming

we wrote scripts you wrote scripts

oh one script really that's all what was

it about just a movie script what was it

about mr signal riley

it was

it was about a kid

who kills his parents

okay

the patient exhibits no apprehension

concerning the purchase of the shotguns

which he feels are untraceable because

he used a false id

nevertheless

he seems

in general to be in a deeply conflicted

emotional state and has considerable

difficulty expressing that conflict

aren't you going home tonight

i haven't made up my mind

well i'd really rather you didn't stay

the night

i wish you would be more positive about

our relationship

gentlemen and these are not easy times

but they're not easy at all

i'm in danger you're in danger how can i

be in danger they don't even know who i

am

unless maybe they followed you here or

something

the patience manner

seems to be sullen and morose

which i attribute to the tension that

he's been under

and from time to time

he expresses sentiments of remorse

i appreciate your coming lyle and i know

how you feel about your brother

talking to me

i

i just want to assure you

that you couldn't be more wrong that's

not why you said you wanted to talk to

me

no it's not

look i'm aware that you think i

represent a danger to you but the fact

of the matter is you're a danger to me

and that danger has to be eliminated

because i will not

choose to live my life in fear

neither did my father

but it seems to me

that there is a way

to eliminate that fear

i doubt it

i'm just gonna turn that on

and i'd like you both to tell me in your

own words exactly what happened the

night your parents were killed you're

crazy you know that

come on eric let's go look what happens

if the police break this case downtown

don't be in such a hurry i can help you

if you tell me what happened

is there anyone else in a position to

help you like i can what are you talking

about well look let's

let's examine

the dynamics of this situation

what are we all afraid of

you're afraid that i might tell the

police what i know and i'm afraid that

you might kill me

to keep that from happening and that's

not exactly a baseless fear get to the

point well the point is what's going to

happen if you get caught

go to prison you're kidding yourself

you'll go to the gas chamber

but i think

i can stop that from happening

how because i'm your therapist

because my testimony could help you

avoid a conviction on psychological

grounds and at the very least it'll keep

you out of the gas chamber on the catch

is uh

this little recording you want us to

make so i feel safe knowing that you

know that if anything happens to me this

will become public and we have to look

after ourselves

lyle this

tape protects me it could protect you

and that sounds like a good proposition

for all three of us

in the event

that you ever come to trial

anything that you say or tell this

machine could be helpful

help

mitigate

may i help you

i talked to my father and his lawyer

i said i should talk to you

he said lyle was worried that there

might have been another will you know

his father might have changed the will

or making changes he checked his

father's computer but he couldn't find

anything

right but he wasn't sure so he hired a

guy to come out to the house and erase

everything

do you know who this guy was the guy he

hired

no

what else would he say

he told me they shot them

he said lyle handed him the gun and they

went in

and they ran into the room and

lyle started shooting

he was shooting his father and he looked

at eric and said shoot mom

and he did

look i am tired i just want to go to bed

no i don't want to take anything

i am just going to go to sleep ok

no it's not going to work

i don't want to see you why can't you

just accept that

it's all working

top of the line

all right now you know what you're gonna

do right

hmm

you've been playing what two years now

what do you think's my game getting any

better

yeah

i used to beat you once in a while

exactly

now we're just gonna find the right

tournament

i'm ready

listen eric

i gotta tell you

police called me and then they're asking

a lot of questions

you didn't you didn't say anything to

him did you yeah sure right

i told him you killed your parents

no you better not

did you

[Music]

no

there

open the door to the run

i've got to talk to you open the door

i know what you're thinking you want to

go to the police but you can't do that

judalan you've got to listen to me you

can't do that

[Music]

juvenile you'll be killed and not by me

you'll be killed

[Music]

got some good news for you

you ready yeah

find a great tournament for you

get your game back on track

it's in israel

well i don't i don't know i mean i

thought i was ready

for you

you have a chance to get away for a

little while

i'm giving this a lot of thought eric

maybe you're right maybe maybe it's what

i should do

good

i'm gonna leave the day after tomorrow

can i please have the number for the

beverly hills police department

get me about the hills

please as i'd like to speak to somebody

about the menendez murders please

detective aguero

eric and lyle menendez killed their

parents they confessed to the therapist

and he's got it all on tape

can someone please come and get me

jerome o'shea

that's right i'm detective arguello this

is a warrant for all papers and records

including but not limited to audio tapes

of your treatment of joseph lau menendez

and eric galen menendez

well it is true i do feel kind of funny

putting it on the market

it doesn't make much sense holding on to

it does it

i just don't like it anymore

they did do a good job of cleaning up

though didn't they

anyway i gotta go all right talk to you

later

[Music]

[Music]

turn off the engine

let's see

[Music]

nice

turn

[Music]

around placing you under arrest for the

murder of kitty and jose menendez

you have a right to remain silent if you

wait this right anything you say cannon

will be used against you in a court of

law

[Music]

or your brother isla

israel plain

tournament

all right take everything out of your

pockets and put it on the countertop

please

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

what's this

something i need

well what is it

it's paste

i wear a hairpiece

hey guys this guy's wearing a rug man

[Music]

you have a right to remain silent you

wait this right anything you say can and

will be used against you in a quarter

long

[Music]

we can't talk now they're probably

listening

everything's going to be okay

you believe what they're asking for the

lau wears a rug

are you kidding me

i don't know sending ball the jail's got

a regulation no hair pieces his lawyer's

asking for permission for him to wear

the rug record any public appearances

then what's regulation on that no one

seems to know

that said give it to him it makes me

think it's not all gonna be this easy

you've both been charged with two counts

of murder both charges carry the special

circumstances for which you could be

sentenced to death

eric gaylen menendez

how do you plead

not guilty your honor

joseph lyle menendez

to the charges in the amended indictment

how do you plead

not guilty

given the choice would you rather be

good or lucky i'd rather be done

remember the woman said ozil said they

said ozil said they said judalan smith

she said that dr zeal said that lyle and

eric bought the guns in san diego under

an assumed name well sure but what name

she didn't know that i do ray arguelle

does

he went down to san diego gun shop the

gun shop and the second one he goes into

he finds a sail slip for two mossbergs

what are mossberg shotguns two of them

the friday before the killings in the

name of nicholas mariner who happens to

have been lyle's best friend from

princeton who happens to have been

working in a restaurant in new york city

that whole weekend who happens to tell

arguelle when he calls that he lost his

wallet the last time he saw lyle

[Music]

lester that's incredible

yes

she's never had a client go to the gas

chamber yet does she ever have clients

who blew their parents heads off at

shotguns you don't know leslie abramson

just watch

there she is

[Music]

leslie abramson attorney for eric

menendez refusing to comment on the

appeals process that's been dragging on

for almost a year and a half at stake

whether a jury will ever hear the

confessions lyle and eric menendez

allegedly made to beverly hills

psychologist jerome ozil we've got

signarelli

eric confessed to him we shot mom and

dad and he doesn't say anything and and

maybe they play chess later that evening

it's a hell of a witness

i don't know what we've got

they're gonna make that kid look awful

on the cross what about the shrink oh he

won't even talk to us until there's a

ruling on the privilege which will be at

least six months and then an appeal if

it goes against him

i don't know i don't know it's just not

coming together

yeah what is it

excuse me they told me i find detective

arguello here

yeah that's me

my name is gerald bronstein

lyle menendez hired me to erase some

files from his father's computer

it's been two years now since lyle and

eric menendez were arrested for the

shotgun murders of their parents

years since lyle and eric menendez it's

been over three years since lyle and

eric menendez were arrested for the

shotgun murders of their parents in the

tv room of their beverly hills home

three and a half years since the

killings defense and prosecution alike

await a supreme court ruling expect it

any day now on whether or not a supposed

confession they made to psychologist el

jerome ozil can be introduced at the

trial are you surprised the court

voiding the doctor-patient privilege

apparently threats were made when a

patient threatens a doctor there's no

privilege did they confess to azeal we

haven't studied the doctor's notes we

just got the ruling now if you'll excuse

us we've been waiting three years to

read these notes

let me ask you now the court won't let

you use the tapes of their session with

the doctor is that a victory for the

defense i wish we had the tape so the

jury could hear what they said in their

own voices but we will have dr ozil's

testimony and we believe that the doctor

will be a very substantial witness

i can tell you quite clearly that i

intend to attack the credibility of dr

ozil in every area known to man and god

how do you plan for jack's credibility

please this is fantastic they told him

it was a perfect murder they wanted to

commit the perfect crime they only

killed the mother because they couldn't

find a way to kill him without killing

her this is incredible stuff and we've

got his notes he'll testify to what they

said it's just as good

how the hell are they going to defend

this

on august 20th 1989 lyle and eric

menendez killed their parents

they didn't do it for money they didn't

do it to commit the perfect crime they

didn't do it out of hatred

it was done out of fear

these boys perceived that their parents

were about to kill them they reacted

with pure panic pure terror they killed

in self-defense

this is it this is the big day this is

when it all happens by six o'clock this

morning there was already a line out in

front of the courthouse in van nuys

where the trial of lyle and eric

menendez begins today two juries have

been selected one to hear the evidence

against each brother

my dad

[Applause]

now

in regards to mr menendez how many

individual wounds did you document in

your autopsy report six now this first

wound that you documented a wound to the

back of the head could you tell us about

that

that is a contact wound uh the muzzle

weapon was placed directly in contact

with the body

in this case the scalp so that the

entire load of the shotgun shell pellets

wadding entered the head

i also recovered pellets along with the

wadding

referring now to the autopsy you

performed on mary louise menendez your

report indicates that you identified 10

separate areas of wounding is that

correct that's correct now referring to

mrs menendez beginning with rule number

one

this is a shotgun wound to the head

particularly the left cheek

this is also a contact wound the gun the

barrel of the gun was placed directly to

the cheek of the deceased

and on the afternoon of august 18 1989

do you recall making a sale of two

mossberg 12-gauge shotguns yes

and did you require identification of

the purchaser yes he presented a

driver's license the name on the license

was mcmahon

mr mariner did there come a time when

you visited lyle menendez in his home

yes

and could you tell us how that visit

ended

i was asked to leave by lyle menendez

yeah by lyle yeah

and after you left did you notice that

you had left something behind

yeah i uh

that's my wallet

did you actually sell rolex watches that

day to these defendants yes i did i sold

them three the total of the sale came to

15

dollars and forty cents

and the person who bought this car

do you see him in the courtroom today

at the defense table in the blue

sweaters indicating the defendant lyle

menendez

what specifically did lyle menendez say

regarding wanting to see this penthouse

they just wanted to see the largest unit

that was available

what was the sale price of that of

course 990 000. two pools squash he said

that um

they ran to the door

the tv room and lyle went up and put his

shoulder up against the door on the

right

eric said he looked in saw his parents

sitting on the couch

and lyle swung open the door and shot

his father and looked at eric and said

shoot mom

isn't it a fact mr cignarelli that when

you first told this story to detective

arguello you told him that eric did not

shoot his mother when he walked into the

room that although his brother said

shoot mom he couldn't do it

that's correct

and is that still what you're telling us

was eric's statement or has that changed

i believe that that still is a statement

thank you

there's a kind of opening night

excitement here today as the state

attempts to put the finishing touches on

its case if the lines for seats in the

crowded courtroom were a bit longer than

usual this morning it's because the two

juries will finally hear from dr el

jerome mozille the beverly hills

psychologist to whom the menendez

brothers allegedly confessed the defense

spent three years in court fighting to

keep dr ozil's testimony from being

heard

today the jury will hear it

i recall eric talking at a length about

how

once the plan was formed that it was

impossible to alter the plan and still

have it to be perfect as a murder to

come off perfectly

and even though they had doubts

as to whether it in fact

was appropriate um

whether it was reasonable

uh fair uh whatever

uh to have the mother included in the

murder plan but um

still they couldn't determine any other

way

to kill the father did eric menendez

specifically tell you that one of the

reasons why he had to kill the mother is

that she would be a potential witness oh

objection to the leading your honor

overruled

you may answer

that's correct

today eric menendez described to you in

particular what it was that he was upset

with his father about

well basically that the father had just

been

completely dominating

controlling

impossible to please they saw the father

as

someone who was pretty much impossible

to live with your honor i'd move to

strike it's not the defendant's words

overruled the answer will stand

dr ozil

did there come a time when lyle menendez

arrived at your office

he did

and could you please describe his

demeanor when he came into your office

he was extremely upset

threatened

threatening

menacing

menacing

so i felt there was a strong threat to

my life and did you tell either lyle or

eric menendez that you had this fear

yes i did and what was the response

from lyle he laughed

and did either lyle or eric ever tell

you he had been sexually abused

no and did either of them ever tell you

that he acted in self-defense

no

we'll take a short recess at this time

both juries are excused

they should return to the courtroom in

20 minutes

council

please remain

i have just a few remarks before we

continue

the remark has to do with the conduct of

counsel during the questioning of the

witness

specifically that of miss abramson

and mugging to the audience during the

testimony of the witness

if the prosecution would do the same

during the testimony of one of your

witnesses how would you react to that as

long as it wasn't in front of the jury

it wouldn't matter to me a counsel the

jury is right behind you and to your

left the jury can't see what i'm doing i

could see your eyes rolling when you're

facing the witness the jury can't see

that either there is a jury in the jury

box that could easily see what you're

doing now is there i will try no not try

you will succeed in not mugging for the

jury not making faces to the audience

you will behave professionally is that

clear

yes of course

did you ask your lover miss judalan

smith to come to your office on october

31st in order to eavesdrop on your

therapy session with eric and lyle

menendez that day

actually it was quite the contrary well

can you answer that question yes or no

dr ozil i don't think i can you can't

answer that did you ask her to be there

no i didn't oh there you go

now you knew miss smith quite intimately

how would you describe her mental

condition would you describe her as a

stable person

no i wouldn't and she sued you didn't

she objection your honor sustained

now in fact you told your unstable

girlfriend details from your therapy

session with eric and lyle menendez

isn't that right would you like to ask

me why no i would like to ask you what i

would like to ask you and that is what i

just asked you can you answer it yes i

told her

and isn't it true that one of the

reasons for your testifying the way you

did about threats from the defendants

was to justify the fact that you told

your unstable girlfriend patient secrets

and your license as a therapist was

already on probation and you were

concerned about that

miss abramson i'm sure is that what

happened

you can answer the question sir no

that isn't what happened

the defense may have scored a few points

today raising questions about the

credibility of the state's key witness

but they still face an uphill fight a

fight literally for the lives of lyle

and eric menendez who face the gas

chamber for the shotgun slayings of

their parents a fight that won't be

resolved until the defendants take the

stand themselves and tell their side of

the story spelling your last name

joseph lyle menendez

mr menendez are you related to eric

galen menendez who's seated here

he's my brother

and we're your parents mary louise

menendez and jose menendez

yes

did you love your mom and dad

yes

and on august 20th 1989 did you and your

brother

kill your mother and father

yes

did you kill them for money

what's your answer

no

did you kill them because you wanted to

pay them back for the way they treated

you

no

why did you kill your parents

because we are afraid

after sports practices he would massage

me

he would show me

he would fondle me and ask me to do the

same

to him

and for how long did this happen

not too long

began to change it

became more involved

what do you mean more involved

put me in the bathroom

it would uh

put me on my knees

it would guide me

all my movements

i would have oral sex with him

at some point did he do some other

things to you

he would use objects

toothbrush

some sort of shaving utensil

brush

and was there some point when he decided

to use something besides the toothbrush

yes

he raped me

did you

cry yes

did you bleed

yes

were you scared

very

[Music]

eric was crying he's basically shaking

and i asked him what was the matter he

was just crying

and i told him you know you can tell me

what is it

he told me things about his dad that

were going on

things like like that happened to me

only they were still going on

i felt maybe he was going to try and

kill himself

and i told my dad that i knew everything

that was going on between him and eric

and that had to stop and what did he say

he said what i do with my son is none of

your business

and he said i warn you don't throw your

life away

and he said let me tell you what's going

to happen

you're going back to princeton

and your brother's going to ucla like we

planned

and we're going to forget this

conversation ever took place

and when he finished talking what

happened

i interrupted him he didn't get to

finish talking

i swore and i told him that he was sick

and that no he wasn't going to touch my

brother again

and that i would tell everybody i would

tell everybody everything about him

i would tell the police

that i would tell the family

i was just out of control

and he leaned back and he said we all

make choices in life son

eric made his and you've made yours

and he just looked at me and he got up

to leave

what did you think

i thought oh my god i just made it a

hundred times worse

what did you think was gonna happen

i thought we were in danger

i thought he had he felt he had no

choice but to what

that he would kill us

and i spoke to my brother and he said oh

god they're going to kill us so we

agreed we had to protect ourselves we

had to go get some guns

did you go to get guns

we went to the store in santa monica

this big five the sporting goods store

we went there to buy handguns

that we'd carry around

but we weren't able to do that because

there was a waiting period for handguns

you had to wait two weeks

and could you tell us what happened then

well we drove around talked about it

we drove down to san diego we bought

shotguns there because there wasn't a

waiting period for shotguns

and that was a friday

and we tried to stay away from them all

weekend

and sunday night

we thought maybe we'd go out you know

because we'd be safe if we're out of the

house

and we went to tell my parents that

we're going to a movie and my mom said

no that we couldn't go out what did you

do

well my dad

sort of pushed her aside

he spoke to my brother and told him to

go upstairs to his room and wait for him

and i said no you're not going to touch

my brother

he's just ignoring me telling him to go

upstairs and wait for him

my mom said something to me about i had

ruined the family

they went into the den and

they closed the doors

what did you think was going to happen

i thought they were going ahead with

their plan to kill us

then

yes

so i ran upstairs and i said to eric

it's happening they're going to kill us

what did you do

i got my gun

and what did your brother do

he got his and we ran

where did you go

we were into where he had ammunition

which was in my brother's car

did you load your gun

i did

then we ran into the room

and to the den and we started firing i

don't know who was firing and who or

what was going on i was just you know

firing my gun and do you remember firing

the very close shot at your father

yes

and at some point was your gun empty

yes

and i could see somebody moving so i

reloaded you reloaded

is that yes

yes

and what did you do after you reloaded

ran around and shot my mom

and was that the last shot that was

fired

is that yes yes

yes

there's no question in anyone's mind

that lyle menendez after four days of

riveting testimony has completely

changed the tone of this trial how he'll

withstand cross-examination that's what

we'll find out today mr menendez you

heard the tape played in this courtroom

with your call to the police to 9-1-1

yes i do and on that tape you told the

police you had just come home and found

your parents is that correct i think i

said someone killed my parents you were

lying to them weren't you

yes

and they asked you a number of questions

and you were lying to them in your

answers weren't you

yes

and you were crying

weren't you you can hear yourself crying

on the tape yes

you were lying

while you were crying is that correct

yes

did you love your parents mr menendez

did you love your mother

yes when you placed the shotgun against

her left cheek and you pulled the

trigger

was that an act of love mr menendez

confusion

fear you were afraid of her at that

point

yeah

where was your mother at this point

she was

my memory's not that good on this

i think i remember she was like around

the side of the coffee table and what

was she doing

in my mind she was sneaking around the

coffee table

you just said your mother was sneaking

is that correct you just use that term

sneaking

yes and did you think she was going to

do something sneaky to you when she was

crawling behind that coffee table

no

your mother wasn't sneaking was she she

was trying to get away from being shot

to death

i don't know i really don't well tell me

mr menendez what threat did your mother

pose to you when you ran out of the room

to reload

nothing i can remember my mind

specifically and how many rounds did you

put into your shotgun just one so what

were you afraid of mr menendez

were you afraid that your mother might

live

i don't know i just think he's cute and

well i kind of feel sorry for him

thank you let's move over here what

about you what brings you to the

courthouse so early in the morning well

eric's going to testify and i just

wanted to be here to show my support i

mean like i haven't heard him but i've

been watching him on tv and

i don't know i think he's sexy

with the court's permission eric

menendez will be sedated when he takes

the stand in his own defense his

emotional state is apparently quite

tenuous and the defense is afraid he

won't be able to take the strain of

testifying eric menendez and your father

would massage you

yes

like he massaged you when you were

swimming similar he would have me strip

off my clothes until i was just wearing

my underwear and when you were six years

old

did the massages change in character in

any way

yes

and what was the change

he had me take off my underwear

he would

turn me over

on my back

and he would massage my genitals

was he using his hands yes

at some point after that

did

he start doing something else

he

wouldn't massage me with his mouth

he he came into my room and he told me

to kneel down on my bed

and

and i did

and then he came over to my bed and he

and he threw me off the bed and told me

to kneel on the floor and i was real

confused because he just told me to get

on my knees on the bed so did you kneel

on the floor as he ordered you to do

yes

okay

what happened next

he was

unbuckling his pants and

in some way either by his hand on my

head or by telling me he

told me what he wanted me to do

and was he

what was his demeanor what was he like

at this time he was rough and he was

angry

and at one point i started screaming and

i started saying stop it hurts it hurts

and did he stop

no how did you react to this pain

i just sort of

died off i just sort of left myself

i just

pretended that it wasn't happening

and how old were you when this happened

i was 13.

now

you got your guns you and your brother

you loaded your guns

why didn't you just wait for your father

and mother to come out of the room

because i was

thinking they were coming out

i only thought i had seconds

i i thought that they were

that as soon as they came out of the

room

i was going to die so i had to get to

that room before they came out and what

would have happened if they came out

objection speculation never ruled you

may answer

i thought that they were going to take

my gun

it was this

it was a stupidly

big thing and it was just

um

i

i thought they were going to grab it

i remember thinking they're going to get

it they're going to get this now after

you went into the den

what do you remember happening

i just remember firing did you aim in

any particular place

just just right in front of me and what

was in front of you

i was right in front of a coffee table

but what was in front of you

a coffee table

you came into the room you moved to the

coffee table am i not understanding what

you're saying i was just firing as i

came in the room i just started firing

in what direction in front of me and

what was in front of you

my parents

i want to take you back to the friday

before your parents were killed mr

menendez

now you testified that you and your

brother decided to get guns

did you discuss what kind of guns

not really just any handguns

at some point did you decide where

you're going to make this purchase

yes that's when we drove to the sporting

goods store

the big five store in santa monica

yes and you took a look at handguns

yes

when you were looking at these guns was

your brother right there with you

yes sir

you weren't trying to hide anything

no

so he was right there with you at the

counter looking at these handguns

yes

were they in a

glass case or were they up on a wall

they were in a

glass case it was

a two-shelf uh container i believe so

and

there were the guns on top but at some

point you picked out a handgun that you

thought was appropriate right yes

and that's when he told us that we had

to uh i mean that that there was some

sort of waiting period

now you're telling the truth about

everything in this case aren't you

i'm telling the truth the best i can

and you wanted handguns so you could

protect yourself

and you went to the big five store in

santa monica to buy these handguns

definitely without a doubt i did

mr menendez

did you know that big five stopped

carrying handguns in march of 1986

no i don't know that

uh mr koriyama there were guns there and

we did look at them

[Music]

does this appear to be the area of the

coffee table that's shown in that

photograph on the board

yes

can you see what that is that was next

to your mother

the letters

it's a um

registration and a parking registration

from ucla and in fact

it says ucla they're right on the card

yes

now

you testified that your mother was going

to kill you that night

correct

yes

and that's still your belief

i'm still my belief to this day

yes

well

if i knew that they didn't have any

weapons when i walked in the room i

would not have walked in the room

but i don't know what my belief is to

this day

now if your mother had been planning to

kill you mr menendez

why would she have been filling out your

application for ucla

it's clear at this point

that the defense is based on the mental

condition or state of mind of the

defendants at the time of the shootings

the law is clear that when the defense

posits

mental condition or state of mind the

prior therapeutic history of the

defendants

is admissible

accordingly

i am reversing the california supreme

court ruling in this case

and will allow the jury to hear the tape

recording of the defendant's december 11

1989 session

with dr l jerome ozil

i really think that they're just you

know there just wasn't really a family

and she was so drained from learning

about my father's affair because i i was

i was listening in the next room and for

months and months i would have to listen

to my mother crying in the house

and i still think my mom's death was a

suicide

sort of she had given us permission to

to please carry out her suicide

my father should be killed there's no

question

what he's doing is he's impossible to

live with

it's almost that he he raised us to to

be able to handle doing this thing and

that we could deal with it

because he trained us like basic

training

there was no way i was going to make a

decision to kill my mother without

eric's consent

i just let him sleep on it for a couple

of days

my mother and my father were

were two people that i loved

it doesn't matter what they were what

they actually were and i

i understand why it was done because

that's it you see i i think one of the

big

biggest pains he has is that you miss

having these people around

but i had a dog once and i miss not

having my dog around

if i can make such a gross analogy

at the time people of the state of

california rested their case in chief

this was a murder trial

as soon as the defense began

it became anything but a murder trial

but i am here to tell you today that now

you have to concentrate on the murders

of jose and mary louise menendez

lyle menendez gets on the stand and he

gives a stellar performance he cries at

the appropriate times it's a great show

but keep in mind it is the best defense

daddy's money could buy

the defendants weren't the only ones who

told you what jose menendez was like

we had his sisters

his brother-in-law

his friends people who knew him

we had teachers and coaches

and i've made a list of words they used

to describe him

he was belligerent

manipulative

powerful

rude

nasty

never satisfied how to cut you to shreds

tone of voice

was aggressive

frightening

intimidating

cruel

harshest person ever met

he had to win

he was overbearing confrontational

demeaning abusive sadistic

sarcastic

controlling

fake

secretive

demanding

cold

competitive

arrogant

angry and belittling

how many people do you know would fit

that description

and would you let them raise your child

after a lifetime of terror

these children were

frightened after a lifetime of threats

these children

felt threatened

it may be hard for you to believe that

these parents would have killed their

children

but is it so hard to understand

how these children believed that their

parents would kill them

it is hard sometimes to look at pain and

we look away

we close our eyes in movies

we don't read the newspaper we don't

watch the news

i ask you now not to turn away from the

pain

and to see it for what it was

and what it did to lyle menendez

i ask you to return verdict

of guilty

of involuntary manslaughter for all the

children who have been beaten within an

inch of their lives for all the children

who have been scalded with hot water as

punishment who have been burned with

cigarettes who have been locked in rooms

for days at a time years at a time and

not fed

this defense

is an offense

and for those children who got out of

the house and made lives for themselves

and became productive members of society

this defense

is an offense

the defendant and his brother

viciously and mercilessly attacked their

parents on the night of august twentieth

nineteen eighty nine

the defense has been no less vicious and

merciless to them in this trial

they have made obscene accusations

misleading claims and outright lies

about their parents

who cannot be here

to defend themselves

it's very easy to go to a crime scene of

a homicide and take a lot of gruesome

pictures and parade them in front of a

jury

but where is the picture of jose

menendez

bending eric over the footboard of his

bed when the child is 12 years old so

the father can now go all the way in

spite of the child's screams

well

there is such a picture

but unfortunately it only exists in

eric's mind now

i'd ask you to indulge me and to indulge

eric as you're deliberating in this case

and to just try to conceive

because i can tell that some of you are

very resistant to what i'm saying i'm

not blind and i'm not stupid

but you owe us as jurors one thing only

that you must entertain the possibility

that we are telling the truth

and you must also try however foreign to

you it may be to put yourself in eric

menendez shoes in order to understand if

he did what he did for the reasons we

say he did

and if we have raised through our

evidence a reasonable doubt that malice

was present or a reasonable doubt as to

whether or not they were acting in the

heat of passion or whether or not they

were acting in fear

then they lose we win and it can be no

more than manslaughter

eric became my client three and a half

years ago

there's no way you can go back and share

the experiences of a nineteen-year-old

which is what he was at the time without

getting more than somewhat

professionally involved

and i admit to that

i admit to an enormous bias in favor of

this client

in those early days

i was the only person he had

and i've had him in my hands for all

this time

and now

i have to give him up to

you there really is good and evil in

this world

there really is

there are really good people and bad

people

and sadly enough given where we are

eric menendez is a good person who did a

bad thing

and you cannot

cannot judge the sinner by the sin alone

because you will never know what to call

the sin

unless you look at the person who did it

all right

we've got four choices on each count

that is each parent the killing of each

parent

we can find mr eric menendez guilty of

first degree murder one or both counts

second-degree murder one or two counts

voluntary manslaughter or involuntary

manslaughter one or both counts

or not guilty yeah well you forget about

that he blew two people away

we can't find them not guilty the judge

made that very clear i mean they shot

them so they have to be guilty of

something

so

let's start with first degree

how many think it was first degree

what the hell is this

first degree murder of course it was

first degree murder

they shot them after what those people

did i would have shot them myself

manslaughter how many votes

i would say we have a lot to talk about

what do we know

we know the parents didn't have weapons

they weren't trying to kill him lyle

thought they were that's what matters he

says

is there any reason we have to believe

him he was on the stand almost two weeks

they cross-examined him like i never

heard of anything being cross-examined

if he was lying able to come out of

course he's lying you know that yeah i

know that beyond a reasonable doubt

no one could listen to all that

testimony and not have doubts i don't

look at this

look what he did to him

that's murder that's first-degree murder

you take that down

we don't have to look at that

you're saying lyle wasn't abused how can

you say that he confessed to his

therapist how come he never mentioned it

what would you tell about something like

that raped and sodomized and everything

else if i told someone i killed two

people i damn well tell them why i'm

sick and tired of hearing that eric shot

them we know he shot them

why oh please why that's the question he

gives a damn

listen to him they all made up their

minds before the trials

that little bastard got up there and

cried you all cried right along with

them oh real man don't cry that's sick

that is just sick

who does that remind you of

jose

you want premeditation

you heard it

on that tape and who made that tape oh

zeal do you trust that man i don't trust

him but he can work a tape recorder

listening

i'll tell you what i was listening to

bam bam bam bam bam

how many shots they put in

i heard that

what it just went over your head or

something i certainly went over yours

why does it take so many shots to kill

two people

because he panicked like he said after

what that man did to him you don't know

what he did i know what my father did i

know how it

this ain't about your father

i know an abused child when i see one

eric menendez was abused

it has come to this court's attention

that in spite of

reinstruction to deliberate this jury

has come to a deadlock

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i give up

that's

i don't know

split the difference

look i mean

the father abused him we give you that

manslaughter for the father

murder one for killing the mother

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no

no we can't do this

that's not a verdict it's a lie

none of us believe it

do you think lyle planned to kill his

father he planned it all away but you're

gonna vote manslaughter

and you

you don't think he planned it but you're

gonna swear he did you're going to swear

he played oh my god

one way or another it was our job to end

this thing and we didn't do

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insoluble it

ladies

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you