1
00:00:05,663 --> 00:00:07,372
Now, listen to this one.

2
00:00:07,382 --> 00:00:11,466
"The way scum like you helps
people like David Koresh,

3
00:00:11,477 --> 00:00:14,503
I hope all your children die of, uh..."

4
00:00:14,881 --> 00:00:17,631
- sheesh.
- Okay. Let's stay focused here, can we?

5
00:00:17,642 --> 00:00:19,719
Why do you insist on reading that crap?

6
00:00:19,730 --> 00:00:22,220
In case one of these maniacs
puts a bullet in my head

7
00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:23,680
like they all say they're gonna.

8
00:00:23,690 --> 00:00:25,348
Give the cops a good place to start.

9
00:00:25,358 --> 00:00:27,017
Yeah, I'm not sure they'd try too hard

10
00:00:27,027 --> 00:00:28,849
to solve a case of the
cop-killer defenders.

11
00:00:28,860 --> 00:00:30,560
- Oh, yeah.
- That's a dark thought.

12
00:00:30,571 --> 00:00:31,896
- Well...
- Shouldn't we be getting

13
00:00:31,906 --> 00:00:33,565
- security or something?
- Don't worry.

14
00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:35,817
I'll protect you from those
big mean letter writers.

15
00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:37,581
See, guys? Nothing to worry about.

16
00:00:37,592 --> 00:00:38,987
Jocelyn's got our backs.

17
00:00:38,997 --> 00:00:40,488
Let's get back to it.

18
00:00:40,498 --> 00:00:42,073
Wait.

19
00:00:42,083 --> 00:00:43,742
- Fan mail?
- What do you think...

20
00:00:43,752 --> 00:00:45,001
- Really?
- Yeah.

21
00:00:45,012 --> 00:00:47,557
- ... about that?
- "Dear fine sirs...

22
00:00:49,691 --> 00:00:52,528
I have been very..." all caps,

23
00:00:52,593 --> 00:00:56,086
"... interested in your case
defending those Davidians.

24
00:00:56,097 --> 00:01:00,216
There are lots of people like
me watching to see how this goes.

25
00:01:00,226 --> 00:01:02,967
Thank you for being such good patriots."

26
00:01:03,113 --> 00:01:05,680
<i>Well, this is nice, isn't it?</i>

27
00:01:05,841 --> 00:01:07,932
<i>Let's see. I'm going bankrupt.</i>

28
00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:10,060
My wife who I haven't
seen in over a month

29
00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:13,104
just filed for divorce.
I'm living in squalor.

30
00:01:13,114 --> 00:01:15,565
I'm getting about three
hours of sleep every night

31
00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:17,440
to fight a losing case
for a bunch of people

32
00:01:17,451 --> 00:01:18,902
who don't even like me,

33
00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:22,572
but when I hear the
praises of adoring fans

34
00:01:22,582 --> 00:01:24,407
like Tim McVeigh,

35
00:01:24,714 --> 00:01:26,951
makes it all worth it, doesn't it?

36
00:01:26,961 --> 00:01:29,037
Now, can we get back to work?

37
00:02:35,401 --> 00:02:40,403
- Synced and corrected by <font color="
- www.addic7ed.com -

38
00:02:48,671 --> 00:02:51,122
You say you love America,

39
00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:54,440
but would you die for it?

40
00:02:55,425 --> 00:02:57,698
Would you kill for it?

41
00:02:58,468 --> 00:03:01,336
I mean, some things
are worth fighting for.

42
00:03:02,612 --> 00:03:04,132
I wanna talk today

43
00:03:04,142 --> 00:03:06,718
about making ourselves ready,

44
00:03:07,097 --> 00:03:10,109
emotionally steeling ourselves

45
00:03:10,783 --> 00:03:13,119
for the coming war.

46
00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:19,689
The war against White America!

47
00:03:21,004 --> 00:03:23,737
I want you to picture
what that's gonna be like.

48
00:03:23,857 --> 00:03:24,877
Picture...

49
00:03:24,977 --> 00:03:27,864
the tanks rolling up our drives,

50
00:03:27,953 --> 00:03:30,289
adrenaline coursing through your body.

51
00:03:31,083 --> 00:03:34,162
I want you to picture yourself
with your gun in your hand

52
00:03:34,172 --> 00:03:36,206
and your kids behind you.

53
00:03:36,216 --> 00:03:38,052
And I want you to picture that again,

54
00:03:38,063 --> 00:03:40,210
and again, and again

55
00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:44,088
until it become real to you.

56
00:03:44,250 --> 00:03:46,341
So that when the time comes,

57
00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:49,010
you won't hesitate to pull the trigger.

58
00:03:51,228 --> 00:03:54,656
Because having the
nerve to pull the trigger

59
00:03:54,667 --> 00:03:56,886
is precisely what...

60
00:03:56,897 --> 00:03:58,895
His granddaddy founded the Nazi party.

61
00:03:58,905 --> 00:04:01,179
- No shit.
- ... protect our home...

62
00:04:01,190 --> 00:04:02,774
I'd steer clear of 'em.

63
00:04:03,043 --> 00:04:04,826
He's not the kind of
guy you wanna mess with.

64
00:04:04,837 --> 00:04:08,394
... to protect our
God-fearing way of life!

65
00:04:23,386 --> 00:04:26,587
We've heard it said that
David Koresh believed

66
00:04:26,682 --> 00:04:28,515
he was preparing,

67
00:04:28,935 --> 00:04:31,771
planning for a great war.

68
00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:34,764
Did he ever express those beliefs

69
00:04:34,774 --> 00:04:37,100
when he purchased these guns from you?

70
00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:38,977
I didn't deal with David,

71
00:04:39,093 --> 00:04:41,512
but I was aware of the philosophy, yes.

72
00:04:42,699 --> 00:04:44,565
Who did you deal with?

73
00:04:44,788 --> 00:04:47,500
I dealt almost exclusively
with Paul Fatta.

74
00:04:48,228 --> 00:04:51,155
And you're referring to defendant Fatta

75
00:04:51,232 --> 00:04:53,391
seated behind counsel over here?

76
00:04:53,592 --> 00:04:54,667
Yes.

77
00:04:54,678 --> 00:04:57,661
Did Mr. Fatta seem
knowledgeable when it came to guns?

78
00:04:57,672 --> 00:04:59,122
Inside and out.

79
00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:02,500
And how many guns did Paul Fatta

80
00:05:02,650 --> 00:05:04,152
purchase from you?

81
00:05:05,179 --> 00:05:07,015
About $90,000 worth.

82
00:05:10,852 --> 00:05:12,854
Exhibit 103.

83
00:05:13,581 --> 00:05:16,574
Can you tell us what this is

84
00:05:16,585 --> 00:05:18,744
and where you found it?

85
00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:21,269
We found it in the compound,

86
00:05:21,392 --> 00:05:22,633
in the chapel.

87
00:05:22,916 --> 00:05:25,877
And what type of weapon is this?

88
00:05:26,427 --> 00:05:28,044
It's an M-16 rifle.

89
00:05:28,355 --> 00:05:30,987
I carried one in Vietnam

90
00:05:31,150 --> 00:05:33,364
for 11 months and seven days.

91
00:05:33,375 --> 00:05:36,117
Because it's a military weapon

92
00:05:36,127 --> 00:05:37,539
built for war?

93
00:05:37,550 --> 00:05:38,708
That's right.

94
00:05:39,190 --> 00:05:41,289
Now, Ranger Boak,

95
00:05:41,299 --> 00:05:44,905
you've testified about
finding a lot of evidence here.

96
00:05:45,284 --> 00:05:46,292
Tell me this.

97
00:05:46,303 --> 00:05:49,191
Did you also happen to locate
the building's front doors?

98
00:05:49,648 --> 00:05:51,150
No, sir.

99
00:05:52,272 --> 00:05:53,607
Help me out here.

100
00:05:54,682 --> 00:05:58,678
You were able to find this BIC lighter

101
00:05:59,191 --> 00:06:01,725
but not two seven-foot doors?

102
00:06:01,949 --> 00:06:03,074
No.

103
00:06:03,595 --> 00:06:04,763
Why not?

104
00:06:05,927 --> 00:06:08,408
It must've burned with
the rest of the building.

105
00:06:09,438 --> 00:06:12,236
Burned? Both front doors?

106
00:06:13,017 --> 00:06:14,352
That's right.

107
00:06:15,899 --> 00:06:17,350
Uh-hmm.

108
00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:20,138
But in the months
leading up to the ATF's arrival

109
00:06:20,149 --> 00:06:21,335
at Mount Carmel,

110
00:06:21,346 --> 00:06:24,756
what did you observe
regarding their inventory?

111
00:06:25,053 --> 00:06:26,584
We observed a dramatic increase

112
00:06:26,594 --> 00:06:28,469
in their stockpile of weapons.

113
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,923
So, they were buying guns

114
00:06:31,933 --> 00:06:33,549
but not selling them?

115
00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:34,727
Correct.

116
00:06:35,748 --> 00:06:37,698
I only have two questions.

117
00:06:37,795 --> 00:06:40,455
In your years of
observation and research,

118
00:06:40,624 --> 00:06:44,503
did the Davidians ever
obtain a weapon illegally?

119
00:06:45,524 --> 00:06:46,889
Not to my knowledge.

120
00:06:46,956 --> 00:06:48,091
Okay.

121
00:06:48,102 --> 00:06:50,406
And just one more thing.

122
00:06:50,417 --> 00:06:53,660
In your examination of all the evidence,

123
00:06:54,047 --> 00:06:57,438
I don't reckon you saw those
pesky missing front doors, did you?

124
00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:00,952
Lieutenant Caldwell,

125
00:07:00,962 --> 00:07:04,038
could you tell us what the Mag Bag was?

126
00:07:04,048 --> 00:07:06,124
The Mag Bag was a small tract of land

127
00:07:06,134 --> 00:07:08,960
located on Farm Road outside of Waco.

128
00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:11,921
It was where Mr. Koresh and
Mr. Fatta received shipments

129
00:07:11,931 --> 00:07:14,799
of weapons, ammunition, gun parts.

130
00:07:15,047 --> 00:07:16,847
And had you had
any previous interactions

131
00:07:16,858 --> 00:07:18,998
with David Koresh or Paul Fatta
that would lead you to believe...

132
00:07:19,009 --> 00:07:22,028
- Objection! Objection! Approach?
- ...that was the possibility?

133
00:07:23,469 --> 00:07:24,969
Judge, this is a transparent attempt

134
00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:26,930
to bring up my client,
Paul Fatta's past,

135
00:07:26,940 --> 00:07:28,432
which is entirely out of bounds.

136
00:07:28,442 --> 00:07:30,099
It's germane to this case, Your Honor.

137
00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:31,847
- Okay.
- Mr. Fatta and Mr. Koresh

138
00:07:31,858 --> 00:07:34,517
both have a previous charge
of conspiracy to commit murder.

139
00:07:34,701 --> 00:07:36,485
And the fact that he and his compatriots

140
00:07:36,496 --> 00:07:38,530
tried to kill a man in cold blood

141
00:07:38,541 --> 00:07:41,575
absolutely informed the ATF's
decision-making process...

142
00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:43,079
You mean your decision-making process.

143
00:07:43,090 --> 00:07:44,567
... when they decided to stage a
dynamic entry into Mount Carmel.

144
00:07:44,578 --> 00:07:46,911
Paul Fatta wasn't even there
when the tanks rolled in.

145
00:07:46,922 --> 00:07:48,492
He wasn't there a single
day of the standoff.

146
00:07:48,503 --> 00:07:50,954
- It doesn't matter if he wasn't there.
- And if Mr. Johnston wants to prove

147
00:07:50,964 --> 00:07:53,630
that there was some conspiracy,
he should do it with relevant evidence

148
00:07:53,641 --> 00:07:55,763
and not unfounded
accusations from the '80s.

149
00:07:55,774 --> 00:07:58,186
- Mr. Fatta is a defendant in this...
- Stop.

150
00:07:58,262 --> 00:08:00,463
I have already ruled
on this, Mr. Johnston.

151
00:08:00,474 --> 00:08:01,840
Yes, Your Honor.

152
00:08:01,850 --> 00:08:03,342
The defendant's previous charges

153
00:08:03,352 --> 00:08:05,860
are not in the purview of this case.

154
00:08:06,104 --> 00:08:09,169
- Objection sustained.
- Thank you. Thank you.

155
00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:11,350
You can't keep all your
skeletons in the closet.

156
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,195
Neither can you, fucko.

157
00:08:17,412 --> 00:08:18,872
No further questions.

158
00:08:20,329 --> 00:08:21,414
Your witness.

159
00:08:24,078 --> 00:08:26,038
I only have one question.

160
00:08:26,975 --> 00:08:28,743
You wouldn't happen to
know where the front doors

161
00:08:28,754 --> 00:08:30,855
from Mount Carmel ended up, would you?

162
00:08:32,927 --> 00:08:34,387
No? Okay.

163
00:08:54,155 --> 00:08:55,781
Can I do for you, George?

164
00:08:57,533 --> 00:09:00,109
We're gonna settle this now.

165
00:09:00,119 --> 00:09:01,329
<i>Settle what?</i>

166
00:09:01,913 --> 00:09:03,749
<i>Who's the real prophet.</i>

167
00:09:05,287 --> 00:09:07,530
<i>We're gonna see who can bring her back.</i>

168
00:09:07,673 --> 00:09:09,007
Bring who back?

169
00:09:10,423 --> 00:09:11,675
My mother.

170
00:09:12,985 --> 00:09:15,853
Your lies put her in the ground.

171
00:09:16,010 --> 00:09:17,793
I just took her out.

172
00:09:17,803 --> 00:09:20,671
What are you talking about, George?
What do you mean you took her out?

173
00:09:20,681 --> 00:09:22,141
<i>I dug her up.</i>

174
00:09:25,305 --> 00:09:27,964
You dug up Lois's body?

175
00:09:28,022 --> 00:09:29,273
Why would you do that?

176
00:09:31,067 --> 00:09:33,986
Whoever can raise my
momma from the dead...

177
00:09:34,825 --> 00:09:37,869
will be the next true
prophet of Mount Carmel.

178
00:09:42,303 --> 00:09:45,750
<i>Sheriff, what do you
mean you can't do anything?</i>

179
00:09:45,930 --> 00:09:47,823
George dug up his own dead mother!

180
00:09:47,833 --> 00:09:50,201
- It's an abomination!
- Look, Vernon.

181
00:09:50,211 --> 00:09:52,495
I drove by Mount
Carmel after you called.

182
00:09:52,505 --> 00:09:54,163
I didn't see any dug-up bodies.

183
00:09:54,173 --> 00:09:55,790
George told me himself!

184
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,042
Yeah, George says a lot of crazy things.

185
00:09:58,052 --> 00:10:00,659
Unless you have actual evidence

186
00:10:00,670 --> 00:10:02,838
of corpse abuse or some other crime,

187
00:10:02,848 --> 00:10:04,809
there's not much that I can do.

188
00:10:05,445 --> 00:10:07,176
Maybe the best course
of action is for y'all

189
00:10:07,186 --> 00:10:08,719
to stay away from Mount Carmel.

190
00:10:08,729 --> 00:10:10,846
Just leave George Roden be.

191
00:10:10,856 --> 00:10:13,234
He's the one that called me!

192
00:10:13,945 --> 00:10:15,974
I think he's fixing to come after us.

193
00:10:15,985 --> 00:10:17,179
Well, then you might wanna think

194
00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:19,458
about getting something
to defend yourself with.

195
00:10:25,253 --> 00:10:27,195
Mr. Cogdell. Mr. Cogdell.

196
00:10:27,206 --> 00:10:30,137
Do you think it's the doors
that prove who shot first?

197
00:10:30,148 --> 00:10:31,608
I do.

198
00:10:32,136 --> 00:10:34,912
But, but those doors are also a symbol

199
00:10:34,922 --> 00:10:36,580
for all the questionable behavior

200
00:10:36,590 --> 00:10:38,718
the Federal government
has taken part in.

201
00:10:39,994 --> 00:10:41,685
Listen, listen.

202
00:10:42,096 --> 00:10:44,880
The ATF shows up with more cameras

203
00:10:44,890 --> 00:10:48,384
than a Hollywood blockbuster,
but there's no footage.

204
00:10:48,394 --> 00:10:51,554
They lose power at the morgue
so no autopsies can be done.

205
00:10:51,564 --> 00:10:53,889
Christ, they bulldozed
the whole crime scene

206
00:10:53,899 --> 00:10:56,068
and then they bleached
it for good measure.

207
00:10:56,877 --> 00:10:59,437
This is what happens when
you have the architect

208
00:10:59,447 --> 00:11:00,887
of a government raid,

209
00:11:00,898 --> 00:11:02,995
the man who demanded the ATF

210
00:11:03,006 --> 00:11:06,385
go in with a hard entry, also
prosecuting the same case.

211
00:11:06,396 --> 00:11:07,519
You saying there's some sort

212
00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:09,323
- of government cover-up?
- No, I'm just saying

213
00:11:09,334 --> 00:11:11,906
that Bill Johnston has a vested interest

214
00:11:11,917 --> 00:11:14,869
<i>in convicting these people,
that's for damn sure.</i>

215
00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:18,247
I heard you with the
press saying I'm corrupt.

216
00:11:18,257 --> 00:11:19,500
That's way out of bounds.

217
00:11:19,511 --> 00:11:21,583
It's called zealously
defending my clients.

218
00:11:21,594 --> 00:11:24,086
You can't win with the facts,
so you're trying to turn this thing

219
00:11:24,096 --> 00:11:25,456
into a government cover-up,

220
00:11:25,467 --> 00:11:27,630
and you're dragging my name
through the mud to do it,

221
00:11:27,641 --> 00:11:29,550
like I had some ulterior motive.

222
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,093
I sanctioned that raid

223
00:11:31,103 --> 00:11:33,596
because I was trying to save those kids.

224
00:11:33,606 --> 00:11:36,609
Save those kids with a forcible entry?

225
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:39,727
I'm doing my job the
best way I know how.

226
00:11:39,737 --> 00:11:41,604
Now, you don't agree with it? Fine.

227
00:11:41,614 --> 00:11:43,537
But let's fight fair, Dan.

228
00:11:43,548 --> 00:11:45,274
You want me to fight fair?

229
00:11:45,284 --> 00:11:46,984
You've got the public, the press,

230
00:11:46,994 --> 00:11:49,153
and the United States
government behind you.

231
00:11:49,163 --> 00:11:51,499
And all I've got is a
booth at the Polo Lounge.

232
00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:55,618
I'm not gonna play with
one-hand tied behind my back.

233
00:11:55,628 --> 00:11:59,173
You want me to shut
up? Find those doors.

234
00:12:24,144 --> 00:12:26,023
Listen, when the prosecutor
starts picking fights

235
00:12:26,033 --> 00:12:27,981
with you in the hall, it means
you're doing something right.

236
00:12:27,992 --> 00:12:29,352
Hmm.

237
00:12:29,655 --> 00:12:31,647
Yeah, yeah, except...

238
00:12:31,744 --> 00:12:33,193
Except what?

239
00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:35,200
You've been watching the forewoman?

240
00:12:35,211 --> 00:12:36,296
Um...

241
00:12:37,749 --> 00:12:39,727
juror number six?

242
00:12:40,343 --> 00:12:42,210
She's the poison juror.

243
00:12:42,341 --> 00:12:44,834
I can just tell. She's
itching to say the G-word.

244
00:12:44,974 --> 00:12:47,169
Yeah. Well, that's why we have 11 more

245
00:12:47,179 --> 00:12:48,722
because all you need is one.

246
00:12:49,824 --> 00:12:51,973
Jocelyn, you'd acquit
our clients, wouldn't you?

247
00:12:51,984 --> 00:12:53,551
Hell no.

248
00:12:53,561 --> 00:12:55,010
They're guilty as shit.

249
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:58,518
- Just like their defense lawyers.
- Ow. Ow.

250
00:12:58,622 --> 00:13:00,739
Number six, she's the top dog.

251
00:13:00,750 --> 00:13:02,517
- She could sway the rest.
- Listen, don't...

252
00:13:02,528 --> 00:13:04,979
don't worry about number
six. I'm gonna focus on her.

253
00:13:04,989 --> 00:13:06,355
I'm gonna make her
feel like the prettiest,

254
00:13:06,365 --> 00:13:07,857
most special juror in the world.

255
00:13:08,936 --> 00:13:10,595
Ask Jocelyn if I can't sweet-talk

256
00:13:10,606 --> 00:13:11,888
the legs off a chair.

257
00:13:11,899 --> 00:13:13,486
Dan, if you were half as charming

258
00:13:13,497 --> 00:13:14,579
as you think you are,

259
00:13:14,590 --> 00:13:16,031
you'd be the best lawyer on earth.

260
00:13:16,041 --> 00:13:17,575
Ooh.

261
00:13:17,802 --> 00:13:18,922
Is that flirting? Is she flirting?

262
00:13:18,933 --> 00:13:21,348
- No, that is not...
- Jesus, Gordon!

263
00:13:21,359 --> 00:13:23,899
God. God! I gotta put a bell on you.

264
00:13:24,216 --> 00:13:25,875
Think I may have an answer for you

265
00:13:25,885 --> 00:13:27,626
on those front doors.

266
00:13:28,892 --> 00:13:32,361
Whoa. Is this Mount Carmel?

267
00:13:33,392 --> 00:13:35,384
What is this, Gordon?
What am I looking at here?

268
00:13:35,394 --> 00:13:38,095
This was taken at 3:55 p.m.,

269
00:13:38,105 --> 00:13:40,458
a couple hours after the fire started.

270
00:13:40,671 --> 00:13:44,063
And these are FBI agents

271
00:13:44,074 --> 00:13:46,609
loading something into a truck.

272
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:48,563
Something about the
size and shape of a door.

273
00:13:48,574 --> 00:13:50,566
Yeah, which was so daggone important

274
00:13:50,576 --> 00:13:54,038
that they had to grab it
while the building was still smoldering.

275
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:58,547
You crazy son of a bitch.

276
00:13:58,558 --> 00:14:00,185
- This is it.
- That's it.

277
00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:03,201
You think these are the front doors
being loaded into this truck?

278
00:14:03,212 --> 00:14:04,538
I do, Your Honor.

279
00:14:04,548 --> 00:14:06,373
This is absurd.

280
00:14:06,383 --> 00:14:07,795
That's not real evidence.

281
00:14:07,806 --> 00:14:09,672
You can hardly see
anything in that photo.

282
00:14:09,803 --> 00:14:12,033
I could say they're loading
Bigfoot into the back of that truck.

283
00:14:12,044 --> 00:14:13,411
- It's pretty blurry, Counselor.
- Well,

284
00:14:13,422 --> 00:14:15,038
uh, either way, the fact that the FBI

285
00:14:15,049 --> 00:14:16,882
was loading anything
into the back of a U-Haul

286
00:14:16,893 --> 00:14:18,551
while a building is still smoldering

287
00:14:18,562 --> 00:14:20,596
is information the
jury deserves to know.

288
00:14:20,606 --> 00:14:23,599
Your Honor, the defense
has obtained a blurry photo

289
00:14:23,609 --> 00:14:26,268
from a conspiracy theorist who
got it from who-knows-where.

290
00:14:26,278 --> 00:14:27,937
How do you know where I got it from?

291
00:14:27,947 --> 00:14:29,855
It wasn't in discovery.

292
00:14:30,343 --> 00:14:32,431
Are you spying on me?

293
00:14:32,918 --> 00:14:34,485
- Judge?
- Cogdell,

294
00:14:34,495 --> 00:14:35,778
get ahold of yourself.

295
00:14:35,881 --> 00:14:37,199
Besides,

296
00:14:37,358 --> 00:14:39,322
we have our own evidence
we'd like to submit

297
00:14:39,333 --> 00:14:41,408
which will address
these ridiculous claims.

298
00:14:41,419 --> 00:14:42,493
And what's that?

299
00:14:42,504 --> 00:14:44,160
We found the door, Your Honor.

300
00:14:44,171 --> 00:14:45,444
The door? What door?

301
00:14:45,455 --> 00:14:46,668
- What door?
- Yeah.

302
00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:48,238
The one you've been
asking about non-stop.

303
00:14:48,249 --> 00:14:51,200
The one you claim is gonna flip
this whole case on its head.

304
00:14:51,595 --> 00:14:53,361
We're bringing it in.

305
00:14:53,572 --> 00:14:55,115
Should put your concerns to rest.

306
00:15:05,693 --> 00:15:07,643
May it please the Court,

307
00:15:07,653 --> 00:15:09,103
the government would like to offer.

308
00:15:09,113 --> 00:15:12,157
Government Exhibit Number 728.

309
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,192
Jesus, what a showman.

310
00:15:15,202 --> 00:15:17,194
You hear what he said earlier?

311
00:15:17,204 --> 00:15:20,322
That a conspiracy
theorist gave us the photo?

312
00:15:20,484 --> 00:15:22,658
Do you think they've got
the Polo Lounge bugged?

313
00:15:22,668 --> 00:15:24,994
We found the door in Sector F,

314
00:15:25,101 --> 00:15:28,163
approximately 40 feet
away from the building.

315
00:15:28,173 --> 00:15:30,499
And did you realize
it was the front door?

316
00:15:30,605 --> 00:15:32,986
No, sir. It was located so far away

317
00:15:32,997 --> 00:15:34,175
from the front of the building

318
00:15:34,186 --> 00:15:37,179
we classified it as a
piece of scrap metal.

319
00:15:37,324 --> 00:15:39,637
And when did you come to realize

320
00:15:39,648 --> 00:15:41,218
that it was the front door?

321
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:43,846
When we re-canvassed the
evidence warehouse yesterday

322
00:15:43,856 --> 00:15:46,140
at your urging and found it.

323
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:48,865
Now, does this door

324
00:15:49,306 --> 00:15:51,811
appear to have any bullet holes in it?

325
00:15:52,008 --> 00:15:53,343
No, sir.

326
00:15:53,602 --> 00:15:55,767
So there is nothing here

327
00:15:55,981 --> 00:15:59,104
that contradicts any of
the earlier ATF testimony

328
00:15:59,115 --> 00:16:01,864
stating that the Davidians fired first?

329
00:16:01,874 --> 00:16:03,122
No.

330
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,808
Were you aware that the cult compound

331
00:16:06,819 --> 00:16:08,352
- originally had two front doors?
- Yes.

332
00:16:08,363 --> 00:16:09,980
We re-canvassed for that one as well,

333
00:16:09,991 --> 00:16:12,994
but didn't find it,
which wasn't surprising.

334
00:16:14,112 --> 00:16:15,280
Why not?

335
00:16:16,122 --> 00:16:17,671
It was still attached to the building.

336
00:16:17,681 --> 00:16:19,813
It melted when the building burned.

337
00:16:19,824 --> 00:16:21,315
Objection. Speculation.

338
00:16:21,326 --> 00:16:22,884
The witness has no first-hand knowledge

339
00:16:22,895 --> 00:16:24,887
that the other door melted.

340
00:16:24,897 --> 00:16:26,505
Uh-hmm. Sustained.

341
00:16:27,103 --> 00:16:28,136
All right.

342
00:16:28,746 --> 00:16:29,954
Ranger Boak,

343
00:16:29,965 --> 00:16:33,083
why do you believe the
other front door melted?

344
00:16:33,307 --> 00:16:36,565
Because the doors were
aluminum with foam cores.

345
00:16:36,575 --> 00:16:38,025
And it was subjected to temperatures

346
00:16:38,035 --> 00:16:40,235
in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit

347
00:16:40,245 --> 00:16:41,779
during the fire.

348
00:16:41,790 --> 00:16:43,833
Aluminum melts at 1200.

349
00:16:44,208 --> 00:16:46,794
And why didn't this door melt?

350
00:16:47,907 --> 00:16:49,468
You see those marks?

351
00:16:50,671 --> 00:16:52,589
They're from the treads of a tank.

352
00:16:53,133 --> 00:16:55,626
And when the tanks penetrated
the compound entryway,

353
00:16:55,636 --> 00:16:57,753
we believe the door
got caught in the treads

354
00:16:57,763 --> 00:17:00,148
and was dragged to the
place that we found it.

355
00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:01,528
Well clear of the fire.

356
00:17:01,539 --> 00:17:02,800
Could you go get something for me?

357
00:17:02,811 --> 00:17:04,720
Now, Ranger Boak,

358
00:17:04,731 --> 00:17:09,068
you didn't realize that
this was a door initially.

359
00:17:10,317 --> 00:17:13,102
Is that common, to
miscategorize evidence?

360
00:17:13,185 --> 00:17:15,836
It's not common but it happens,

361
00:17:16,115 --> 00:17:18,985
particularly if there's a
large volume of evidence.

362
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:23,445
Final question, were
you and the Texas Rangers

363
00:17:23,455 --> 00:17:25,781
part of a massive conspiracy

364
00:17:25,791 --> 00:17:29,294
headed by the Federal
government to hide this door?

365
00:17:32,158 --> 00:17:33,910
I reckon not, sir.

366
00:17:37,017 --> 00:17:38,956
No further questions.

367
00:17:40,475 --> 00:17:42,713
<i>Sheriff said we needed proof of, um,</i>

368
00:17:43,424 --> 00:17:45,065
what'd he call it?

369
00:17:45,812 --> 00:17:47,553
- Corpse abuse.
- Corpse abuse

370
00:17:47,564 --> 00:17:49,765
in order to do anything about it.

371
00:17:49,776 --> 00:17:51,071
Well...

372
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:53,543
what if we gave him some proof?

373
00:17:55,255 --> 00:17:56,548
Like a picture?

374
00:17:57,847 --> 00:18:01,600
We can't just go to Mount
Carmel and snap a picture.

375
00:18:02,428 --> 00:18:04,211
George carries around an Uzi.

376
00:18:04,222 --> 00:18:05,505
He's...

377
00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:06,950
He's crazy.

378
00:18:07,884 --> 00:18:09,375
I mean, you heard the Sheriff,

379
00:18:09,386 --> 00:18:11,430
he said we might need to arm ourselves.

380
00:18:12,867 --> 00:18:14,317
So what if we did?

381
00:18:14,334 --> 00:18:15,392
All right.

382
00:18:15,403 --> 00:18:17,729
We'll take, uh, five of the Rugers

383
00:18:18,010 --> 00:18:20,966
and, uh, throw in some
of them camo suits too.

384
00:18:21,337 --> 00:18:22,421
You got it.

385
00:18:39,094 --> 00:18:40,178
We're here.

386
00:18:47,525 --> 00:18:49,175
All right.

387
00:18:49,942 --> 00:18:52,434
Everybody stay quiet and stay close.

388
00:18:52,445 --> 00:18:54,896
We're just getting a few
photos and then getting out.

389
00:18:54,907 --> 00:18:56,065
All right?

390
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:05,907
Okay. Come on.

391
00:20:02,447 --> 00:20:03,772
Vernon!

392
00:20:05,888 --> 00:20:07,067
No. No, George.

393
00:20:11,123 --> 00:20:12,614
Go, go, go!

394
00:20:12,624 --> 00:20:14,449
You're trespassing!

395
00:20:14,459 --> 00:20:16,118
Sneaking around my property!

396
00:20:55,348 --> 00:20:56,581
George, no!

397
00:20:56,592 --> 00:20:57,825
Ah!

398
00:20:57,836 --> 00:20:59,671
Oh! Oh!

399
00:21:02,623 --> 00:21:03,724
You all right?

400
00:21:03,735 --> 00:21:05,393
Guess you got to learn how to shoot.

401
00:21:05,656 --> 00:21:08,301
Won't be the last time we
got to defend ourselves.

402
00:21:20,419 --> 00:21:21,963
Beast is coming.

403
00:21:28,450 --> 00:21:29,868
Drop your weapons!

404
00:21:30,743 --> 00:21:32,568
On the ground!

405
00:21:46,047 --> 00:21:49,133
ATF agents testified

406
00:21:49,654 --> 00:21:52,188
that the Davidians shot first

407
00:21:52,265 --> 00:21:54,549
and that those shots...

408
00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:56,867
went through the front doors.

409
00:21:58,105 --> 00:22:00,889
But the Davidians have
stated that it was the ATF

410
00:22:00,899 --> 00:22:03,944
who shot at them
through those same doors.

411
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,522
But this door has no
bullet holes in it, correct?

412
00:22:08,532 --> 00:22:10,072
Not that I see.

413
00:22:10,083 --> 00:22:12,400
So it must be the other
door, the still-missing door,

414
00:22:12,411 --> 00:22:14,403
that was shot through and
it would be the other door

415
00:22:14,413 --> 00:22:18,083
that would prove which
side was telling the truth.

416
00:22:18,959 --> 00:22:21,211
Yes. It... it appears that way.

417
00:22:23,094 --> 00:22:25,711
Well, that's bad luck, isn't it?

418
00:22:28,761 --> 00:22:30,388
Uh, a moment, Judge.

419
00:22:34,006 --> 00:22:36,810
- Oh... shit.
- That's all I could find.

420
00:22:37,477 --> 00:22:39,827
So, you believe the other door melted.

421
00:22:40,105 --> 00:22:42,441
- Yes.
- Because it was made of aluminum.

422
00:22:43,933 --> 00:22:45,299
That's what I said.

423
00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:48,270
And those guns right there didn't melt

424
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,440
because they're made of steel,
which has a much higher melting point?

425
00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:53,221
Yes.

426
00:22:53,885 --> 00:22:56,169
So if the other door was made of steel,

427
00:22:56,246 --> 00:22:57,747
would it have melted?

428
00:22:58,850 --> 00:23:00,185
No.

429
00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:04,181
Yet that door seems awfully heavy.

430
00:23:05,175 --> 00:23:07,721
Well, I mean, my daddy was a contractor.

431
00:23:07,732 --> 00:23:09,752
Uh, I'd help him demo houses.

432
00:23:09,763 --> 00:23:11,499
We pulled down a lot of aluminum doors.

433
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:13,669
I could carry one under one arm.

434
00:23:13,732 --> 00:23:16,652
Sure didn't take three
men to pick one up.

435
00:23:17,684 --> 00:23:19,468
I... I couldn't speak to that.

436
00:23:19,478 --> 00:23:22,439
Well, then let me
ask you this, Ranger Boak.

437
00:23:24,483 --> 00:23:25,932
Is aluminum magnetic?

438
00:23:25,942 --> 00:23:27,180
Objection!

439
00:23:27,191 --> 00:23:30,810
Ranger Boak is a lay
witness, not a metals expert.

440
00:23:31,127 --> 00:23:32,692
I'll allow it.

441
00:23:33,466 --> 00:23:35,583
No, it's not magnetic.

442
00:23:35,907 --> 00:23:37,986
How about steel?

443
00:23:37,996 --> 00:23:39,841
I believe so, yes.

444
00:23:39,852 --> 00:23:41,677
So this refrigerator magnet,

445
00:23:41,933 --> 00:23:43,935
would it stick to aluminum?

446
00:23:45,358 --> 00:23:47,767
Um, no, it... it wouldn't.

447
00:24:17,656 --> 00:24:20,325
Do you still believe this
door is made of aluminum?

448
00:24:25,239 --> 00:24:28,659
No, sir, it looks to be made of steel.

449
00:24:29,323 --> 00:24:31,039
And if this door is made of steel,

450
00:24:31,049 --> 00:24:33,041
wouldn't it stand to
reason that the other door

451
00:24:33,051 --> 00:24:36,680
it was attached to
was also made of steel?

452
00:24:41,072 --> 00:24:43,574
The witness needs to respond verbally.

453
00:24:45,865 --> 00:24:46,991
Yes.

454
00:24:48,061 --> 00:24:50,011
So then, Ranger Boak,

455
00:24:50,022 --> 00:24:51,732
I'll ask you again...

456
00:24:53,419 --> 00:24:55,380
where is the missing door?

457
00:25:31,617 --> 00:25:32,691
Oh, hey.

458
00:25:32,702 --> 00:25:34,736
Do you... do you need the phone?

459
00:25:34,852 --> 00:25:36,770
Because I can wait, it's not urgent.

460
00:25:36,781 --> 00:25:38,074
<i>Hello?</i>

461
00:25:40,478 --> 00:25:42,062
No, go ahead.

462
00:25:43,268 --> 00:25:46,178
<i>Hello? Hello?</i>

463
00:25:46,335 --> 00:25:47,743
Hey, Daddy.

464
00:25:48,009 --> 00:25:49,284
Oh, Carol.

465
00:25:49,294 --> 00:25:50,670
Oh, it's so good to hear from you.

466
00:25:50,681 --> 00:25:52,840
- Are you safe?
<i>- Yeah, yeah.</i>

467
00:25:52,851 --> 00:25:54,349
I, I just wanted you to know that,

468
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,457
that I made it to my
friend's place okay.

469
00:25:56,468 --> 00:25:58,803
You know, I didn't... I
didn't want you to worry.

470
00:25:59,097 --> 00:26:01,721
Yeah, that's good to hear
because I was worried.

471
00:26:02,254 --> 00:26:04,214
Your mom and I were both worried.

472
00:26:05,651 --> 00:26:07,476
When do you think we'll see you again?

473
00:26:07,613 --> 00:26:09,355
<i>Uh, it's hard to say, you know,</i>

474
00:26:09,366 --> 00:26:11,233
but I... but I should go
because there's someone

475
00:26:11,244 --> 00:26:12,860
waiting on the phone, so I, you know,

476
00:26:12,871 --> 00:26:14,697
I just didn't want you
to think I got lost.

477
00:26:14,778 --> 00:26:16,519
<i>Well, hey, thanks for calling.</i>

478
00:26:16,529 --> 00:26:17,812
You called...

479
00:26:17,822 --> 00:26:19,824
Hmm.

480
00:26:22,910 --> 00:26:25,027
Ah, that was Carol.

481
00:26:25,038 --> 00:26:26,696
She's still in play.

482
00:26:26,746 --> 00:26:30,137
You sure she's just not
looking to get more candy money?

483
00:26:32,458 --> 00:26:33,800
What's your name?

484
00:26:33,811 --> 00:26:35,029
I don't know you.

485
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,118
Woo. Good girl. You taught her well.

486
00:26:38,129 --> 00:26:41,257
Okay, kiddo, we're
gonna get you to daycare.

487
00:26:43,997 --> 00:26:47,657
<i>Government has charged
my clients with conspiracy.</i>

488
00:26:47,913 --> 00:26:51,019
They claim that Paul
Fatta was a blood merchant,

489
00:26:51,523 --> 00:26:54,140
the architect of some violent plot

490
00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:56,495
when he was just a man
trying to run a business.

491
00:26:57,362 --> 00:26:59,854
But after what we saw today
I can't help but wonder

492
00:26:59,864 --> 00:27:03,201
<i>if it's the government who shouldn't
be answering for their actions,</i>

493
00:27:04,235 --> 00:27:06,714
<i>if it's the government
who is conspiring against</i>

494
00:27:06,725 --> 00:27:09,656
<i>my clients, whose
only crime was leading</i>

495
00:27:09,666 --> 00:27:12,335
<i>a life the government
didn't agree with.</i>

496
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,205
And now that same government
refuses to take responsibility

497
00:27:18,216 --> 00:27:20,208
for its actions, and
in fact is willing to do

498
00:27:20,218 --> 00:27:22,777
<i>whatever it takes to cover it up,</i>

499
00:27:23,012 --> 00:27:26,381
<i>even if it means
hurting innocent people.</i>

500
00:27:26,886 --> 00:27:30,218
But that malfeasance, that arrogance

501
00:27:30,228 --> 00:27:32,297
has dangerous consequences

502
00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:34,182
for my clients

503
00:27:34,193 --> 00:27:36,111
and for the rest of this country.

504
00:27:36,884 --> 00:27:38,183
Lori Rae?

505
00:27:38,307 --> 00:27:40,633
- You're on the Waco jury, right?
- What?

506
00:27:40,743 --> 00:27:43,117
No, I don't wanna talk.

507
00:27:44,177 --> 00:27:45,960
The Constitution of the United States

508
00:27:45,971 --> 00:27:47,681
gives jurors great powers.

509
00:27:49,242 --> 00:27:51,284
I'm here to inform you of your choices.

510
00:27:56,461 --> 00:27:58,245
Please, leave!

511
00:27:58,256 --> 00:27:59,882
Please!

512
00:28:04,543 --> 00:28:06,091
I'm calling the police!

513
00:28:06,102 --> 00:28:08,345
You can make the right choice.

514
00:28:08,356 --> 00:28:10,139
Please!

515
00:28:35,219 --> 00:28:38,257
Before we get started,
I wanna make you all aware of something,

516
00:28:38,268 --> 00:28:40,287
five of our jurors had letters delivered

517
00:28:40,298 --> 00:28:43,762
to their homes this weekend
by a group called FIJA,

518
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,927
the Fully Informed Jury Association.

519
00:28:47,416 --> 00:28:48,878
Pamphlets claim

520
00:28:48,889 --> 00:28:50,923
the rules of the court
don't apply to the jury

521
00:28:50,934 --> 00:28:53,505
and they can make up
whatever verdict they see fit.

522
00:28:53,516 --> 00:28:55,214
- To the jurors' homes?
- Yes.

523
00:28:55,225 --> 00:28:57,931
One of the jurors, juror number six,

524
00:28:57,941 --> 00:28:59,754
said she was practically accosted.

525
00:28:59,765 --> 00:29:01,892
She's pretty shaken up about it.

526
00:29:04,864 --> 00:29:07,252
Any of you all familiar with this group?

527
00:29:07,659 --> 00:29:10,081
- Are you asking us, Your Honor?
- I'm asking everyone.

528
00:29:10,092 --> 00:29:11,917
It just seems like the implication

529
00:29:11,928 --> 00:29:14,686
is that the defense
might benefit from this.

530
00:29:14,697 --> 00:29:16,146
I think you're reading into my question.

531
00:29:16,157 --> 00:29:18,024
I'm not implying anything, counselor.

532
00:29:18,035 --> 00:29:21,328
I'm just concerned that
if-if the jury thinks

533
00:29:21,339 --> 00:29:22,630
these people are aligned with...

534
00:29:22,641 --> 00:29:24,498
I will tell the jury
they have nothing to do

535
00:29:24,509 --> 00:29:26,167
with anyone involved in the trial.

536
00:29:26,177 --> 00:29:28,044
That would be much
appreciated. Thank you.

537
00:29:28,054 --> 00:29:30,797
So long as they believe
they can remain impartial.

538
00:29:30,807 --> 00:29:33,094
- Let's get started.
- Thank you.

539
00:29:48,587 --> 00:29:49,995
Your Honor, the government calls

540
00:29:50,006 --> 00:29:52,050
Kathy Schroeder to the stand.

541
00:29:59,076 --> 00:30:01,610
<i>So you were a member of this group,</i>

542
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,385
<i>a Branch Davidian?</i>

543
00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:06,243
<i>I was. Yes.</i>

544
00:30:06,811 --> 00:30:08,646
<i>This must be very hard for you</i>

545
00:30:09,303 --> 00:30:11,722
<i>to testify against your own people.</i>

546
00:30:12,484 --> 00:30:14,455
<i>Yeah, it is.</i>

547
00:30:14,785 --> 00:30:18,613
When the ATF arrived on February 28th

548
00:30:18,836 --> 00:30:20,760
to serve their warrant,

549
00:30:21,138 --> 00:30:22,922
and a gunfight erupted,

550
00:30:23,141 --> 00:30:25,768
were you tasked with any kind of job?

551
00:30:26,048 --> 00:30:27,061
Yes.

552
00:30:28,233 --> 00:30:30,564
I was the one who made
sure that everybody

553
00:30:30,575 --> 00:30:32,942
had a gun and made sure that everybody

554
00:30:32,952 --> 00:30:35,144
had the right ammunition to go with it.

555
00:30:35,538 --> 00:30:36,946
- No! They're gonna kill you.
- Why?

556
00:30:36,956 --> 00:30:38,281
- I don't care!
- Give me that gun!

557
00:30:38,291 --> 00:30:40,283
Give me that gun!

558
00:30:40,293 --> 00:30:42,906
And why were you
entrusted with this job?

559
00:30:43,107 --> 00:30:44,650
I'd been in the Air Force.

560
00:30:45,172 --> 00:30:47,925
So it was like a military exercise?

561
00:30:48,302 --> 00:30:50,251
It was something we'd trained for.

562
00:30:50,261 --> 00:30:52,587
And the people
that you were passing out

563
00:30:52,597 --> 00:30:54,627
these weapons to, did they take them

564
00:30:54,638 --> 00:30:57,758
- with the intent to use them?
- Objection. Speculation.

565
00:30:57,769 --> 00:30:59,524
I'll rephrase.

566
00:30:59,704 --> 00:31:02,583
Was it your understanding
that the weapons would be used?

567
00:31:02,594 --> 00:31:04,098
Absolutely.

568
00:31:04,108 --> 00:31:06,059
And are some of the
people that you passed out

569
00:31:06,069 --> 00:31:08,613
these weapons to here today?

570
00:31:09,735 --> 00:31:11,153
Yes.

571
00:31:11,547 --> 00:31:13,607
Let's get specific.

572
00:31:13,618 --> 00:31:15,109
During the raid,

573
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:19,047
did you have any
contact with Ruth Riddle?

574
00:31:19,315 --> 00:31:22,075
I gave Ruth a gun and nine mags.

575
00:31:22,502 --> 00:31:24,796
Can you identify Ruth Riddle?

576
00:31:27,852 --> 00:31:29,353
I'm sorry, Ruth.

577
00:31:29,872 --> 00:31:32,085
Let the record show that Mrs. Schroeder

578
00:31:32,095 --> 00:31:34,097
has identified Ruth Riddle.

579
00:31:36,215 --> 00:31:39,468
What contact did you have with
Clive Doyle concerning firearms?

580
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,166
I gave Clive the .308.

581
00:31:43,282 --> 00:31:45,743
Can you identify Clive Doyle?

582
00:31:49,185 --> 00:31:53,022
Did you have any contact
with Livingstone Fagan

583
00:31:53,032 --> 00:31:54,816
concerning firearms?

584
00:31:54,826 --> 00:31:56,776
Livingstone was already carrying an AK,

585
00:31:56,786 --> 00:31:58,987
so I just made sure he had ammo.

586
00:31:59,181 --> 00:32:01,636
Did you have any contact with Paul Fatta

587
00:32:01,870 --> 00:32:03,904
concerning firearms?

588
00:32:03,915 --> 00:32:05,583
Not on the day of the raid,

589
00:32:06,061 --> 00:32:08,438
but he purchased the guns.

590
00:32:10,564 --> 00:32:12,973
So David Koresh

591
00:32:13,017 --> 00:32:15,844
instructed you to hand out

592
00:32:15,855 --> 00:32:18,482
the weapons Paul Fatta purchased

593
00:32:18,850 --> 00:32:21,175
to these defendants?

594
00:32:21,185 --> 00:32:22,187
Yes.

595
00:32:23,147 --> 00:32:26,514
We all had guns. You
get it? We all had guns.

596
00:32:26,524 --> 00:32:28,793
We all... we all knew what was coming.

597
00:32:30,107 --> 00:32:32,433
David always said, "If
you can't kill for God,

598
00:32:32,444 --> 00:32:34,404
you can't die for God."

599
00:32:35,304 --> 00:32:37,550
And was David Koresh willing to die?

600
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,788
Of course.

601
00:32:39,811 --> 00:32:41,518
We all were.

602
00:32:42,449 --> 00:32:44,702
We were the army of God.

603
00:32:48,414 --> 00:32:51,157
Even, even David's name, David Koresh,

604
00:32:51,526 --> 00:32:53,862
that means "Beloved Death."

605
00:32:57,094 --> 00:33:00,213
So... when David Koresh

606
00:33:00,224 --> 00:33:03,434
believed he was dying
from his gunshot wounds,

607
00:33:04,087 --> 00:33:07,090
was there a plan in case he died?

608
00:33:09,343 --> 00:33:10,891
We were supposed to carry David

609
00:33:10,902 --> 00:33:14,197
out the front door on a stretcher.

610
00:33:17,136 --> 00:33:19,096
If he wasn't dead yet,

611
00:33:20,130 --> 00:33:22,117
we were gonna shoot him in the head.

612
00:33:23,114 --> 00:33:27,576
And then we were supposed to
open fire on the FBI agents.

613
00:33:28,823 --> 00:33:31,451
And why would you want to do that?

614
00:33:36,955 --> 00:33:39,082
To-to-to...

615
00:33:41,008 --> 00:33:43,469
to draw their fire.

616
00:33:44,936 --> 00:33:46,730
So they'd kill us all.

617
00:33:51,211 --> 00:33:54,464
See, you had to know the real David.

618
00:33:54,894 --> 00:33:57,313
He was never gonna surrender.

619
00:33:59,992 --> 00:34:02,242
Sorry.

620
00:34:02,652 --> 00:34:05,155
He was never gonna let us go.

621
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:09,868
And how did you know that?

622
00:34:10,722 --> 00:34:12,056
Because...

623
00:34:13,553 --> 00:34:15,681
he'd conditioned us.

624
00:34:19,666 --> 00:34:21,376
Oh, he did.

625
00:34:25,471 --> 00:34:28,130
He conditioned us for years

626
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,470
to believe that we were headed

627
00:34:30,481 --> 00:34:33,305
for an armed showdown with the...

628
00:34:33,423 --> 00:34:36,249
with the forces of the Beast.

629
00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:37,841
The Beast?

630
00:34:37,955 --> 00:34:39,947
From the <i>Book of Revelation.</i>

631
00:34:40,457 --> 00:34:41,745
So,

632
00:34:42,026 --> 00:34:45,115
when the ATF arrived at your door,

633
00:34:45,414 --> 00:34:47,949
you believed they were those forces?

634
00:34:48,226 --> 00:34:50,519
And you were ready for battle.

635
00:34:53,959 --> 00:34:55,702
Yeah, we were.

636
00:34:57,861 --> 00:35:00,405
And you were conditioned to believe

637
00:35:01,641 --> 00:35:04,645
that it would be a battle to the death?

638
00:35:06,632 --> 00:35:07,758
Yes.

639
00:35:08,485 --> 00:35:12,158
So, no matter what the government did,

640
00:35:12,641 --> 00:35:16,301
no matter how many chances
they gave the Branch Davidians

641
00:35:16,331 --> 00:35:18,272
to come out of Mount Carmel,

642
00:35:19,265 --> 00:35:21,059
you weren't coming out alive?

643
00:35:26,872 --> 00:35:28,364
No.

644
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:42,307
It's not too late, you know.

645
00:35:43,542 --> 00:35:45,502
We could pick a different place.

646
00:35:46,796 --> 00:35:49,799
Bet most of those kids
never even heard of Waco.

647
00:35:52,032 --> 00:35:53,909
We kill a bunch of kids,

648
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:57,754
who's to say we're any
better than the ATF?

649
00:35:59,130 --> 00:36:01,619
Yeah. Hello?

650
00:36:01,772 --> 00:36:03,889
<i>Gary, Sanborn here.</i>

651
00:36:03,966 --> 00:36:05,833
Oh hey, Alan, what's up?

652
00:36:05,844 --> 00:36:08,336
<i>I need you on a
plane in a couple hours.</i>

653
00:36:08,347 --> 00:36:11,465
I passed off the negotiations
team to Hendricks.

654
00:36:11,756 --> 00:36:13,741
It's not a negotiation.

655
00:36:13,751 --> 00:36:16,247
I need you in Texas ASAP.

656
00:36:16,258 --> 00:36:19,762
You're being called to testify
in the Waco trial tomorrow.

657
00:36:21,893 --> 00:36:24,039
What? The...

658
00:36:24,428 --> 00:36:27,421
the prosecution wants me to testify?

659
00:36:27,497 --> 00:36:29,666
No, the defense does.

660
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:33,382
- The defense? Why?
<i>- I don't know.</i>

661
00:36:33,393 --> 00:36:35,969
Maybe they caught wind
of your little meltdown

662
00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:37,889
with the DOJ, where you said Waco

663
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:39,475
was all the government's fault.

664
00:36:39,486 --> 00:36:40,934
<i>That's not what I said.</i>

665
00:36:40,945 --> 00:36:42,770
Well, either way,

666
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:45,231
they want you on the stand tomorrow.

667
00:36:45,241 --> 00:36:48,880
Jesus. No, I... no, no.

668
00:36:48,891 --> 00:36:51,531
I don't have time for that, Alan.
Can you make it go away?

669
00:36:51,542 --> 00:36:52,784
<i>No, I cannot.</i>

670
00:36:52,795 --> 00:36:56,094
<i>- It's a Federal subpoena.</i>
- I... This is bad timing, Alan.

671
00:36:56,105 --> 00:36:58,889
I just got a CI into Elohim City.

672
00:36:59,254 --> 00:37:00,672
What?

673
00:37:01,318 --> 00:37:02,977
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

674
00:37:02,988 --> 00:37:05,625
Who the hell gave you
clearance to send a CI in there?

675
00:37:05,636 --> 00:37:07,206
<i>I sure as hell didn't, Gary.</i>

676
00:37:07,217 --> 00:37:09,000
<i>If that unauthorized CI turns up dead,</i>

677
00:37:09,011 --> 00:37:10,711
<i>your career is over.</i>

678
00:37:10,850 --> 00:37:13,634
I realize that. That's why
I can't leave right now.

679
00:37:13,644 --> 00:37:16,717
<i>I don't like you
testifying any more than you do.</i>

680
00:37:16,993 --> 00:37:20,584
<i>You go down there and you show
that you know how to play ball.</i>

681
00:37:20,595 --> 00:37:22,754
<i>If you want support
out there in Oklahoma,</i>

682
00:37:22,765 --> 00:37:25,758
<i>then you're gonna have to show
us that you are a team player.</i>

683
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:33,296
Are you stupid?

684
00:37:33,678 --> 00:37:36,628
You had no right to do
this without talking to us.

685
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:38,238
This right here is how
you lose our whole case.

686
00:37:38,249 --> 00:37:41,454
I'm sorry. Were you in there just now?

687
00:37:41,967 --> 00:37:45,293
Because Kathy Schroeder
just destroyed us.

688
00:37:45,384 --> 00:37:48,367
Look, our whole case is
built on self-defense,

689
00:37:48,378 --> 00:37:51,412
on the idea that the government
attacked the Davidians.

690
00:37:51,423 --> 00:37:53,506
But the jury is not gonna
give a shit about that

691
00:37:53,517 --> 00:37:55,718
if they think the Davidians
already had a death wish

692
00:37:55,728 --> 00:37:58,314
and were gonna kill
themselves no matter what.

693
00:37:58,944 --> 00:38:02,683
So our job, our most important job,

694
00:38:02,693 --> 00:38:05,519
is to show the jury that our clients

695
00:38:05,529 --> 00:38:09,200
were actual people,
people who wanted to live.

696
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,902
And that the choices
the ATF and the FBI made

697
00:38:12,912 --> 00:38:15,738
are what resulted in
all those people dying.

698
00:38:15,977 --> 00:38:18,157
We could put their
friends on the stand...

699
00:38:18,167 --> 00:38:19,551
- No, no.
- ... their family.

700
00:38:19,562 --> 00:38:22,847
Come on. Somebody's mama
ain't gonna convince the jury.

701
00:38:23,172 --> 00:38:25,373
But if we can get a
badge up there and he says

702
00:38:25,383 --> 00:38:28,219
that these were real people,
people who wanted to live...

703
00:38:30,311 --> 00:38:32,053
then we're cooking with gas.

704
00:38:32,223 --> 00:38:34,924
So, just to be clear, you're gonna put

705
00:38:34,934 --> 00:38:37,646
a professional negotiator on the stand

706
00:38:38,168 --> 00:38:40,170
and hope you can get him to crack?

707
00:38:41,649 --> 00:38:43,265
It's a Hail Mary at best.

708
00:38:43,664 --> 00:38:45,226
Well, we need a Hail Mary

709
00:38:45,236 --> 00:38:49,407
and we need it to connect or we lose.

710
00:39:06,444 --> 00:39:10,417
I am so tired of people
spreading lies about David,

711
00:39:10,428 --> 00:39:12,878
especially when the lies are
coming from one of our own.

712
00:39:12,888 --> 00:39:14,255
How could she say those things?

713
00:39:14,265 --> 00:39:16,234
That we wanted this to happen?

714
00:39:16,604 --> 00:39:19,092
We wanted all the people we love to die?

715
00:39:19,103 --> 00:39:20,412
- It's insane.
- Uh-hmm.

716
00:39:20,423 --> 00:39:22,926
It's like letting
Judas write the Gospel.

717
00:39:25,004 --> 00:39:26,797
I'm gonna testify.

718
00:39:28,774 --> 00:39:31,266
Your lawyer is letting you speak?

719
00:39:31,369 --> 00:39:33,394
- Mine won't let me.
- Neither will mine.

720
00:39:33,405 --> 00:39:34,758
I don't care.

721
00:39:34,769 --> 00:39:37,318
I have a legal right
to testify if I want to.

722
00:39:37,329 --> 00:39:39,996
- We all do.
- Uh, she's right.

723
00:39:40,578 --> 00:39:43,116
It doesn't matter that
the lawyers said no.

724
00:39:43,127 --> 00:39:44,370
Legally, they can't stop us.

725
00:39:44,381 --> 00:39:46,453
And our lawyers are not listening to us.

726
00:39:46,464 --> 00:39:48,622
No one is listening to us.

727
00:39:48,632 --> 00:39:50,301
So we have to make them listen.

728
00:39:51,690 --> 00:39:53,191
I don't know.

729
00:39:54,820 --> 00:39:56,895
We are good people.

730
00:39:57,099 --> 00:39:58,934
Someone needs to say it.

731
00:39:59,783 --> 00:40:02,952
We're not monsters.
David's not a monster.

732
00:40:03,282 --> 00:40:05,764
The jury needs to hear
that David would never do

733
00:40:05,774 --> 00:40:07,485
anything to hurt us.

734
00:40:09,653 --> 00:40:11,030
He loved us.

735
00:40:13,450 --> 00:40:15,648
- Someone should say something.
- Uh-hmm.

736
00:40:42,233 --> 00:40:43,850
Hey, mama.

737
00:40:43,895 --> 00:40:45,720
What the hell were you thinking,

738
00:40:45,802 --> 00:40:47,762
shooting at George Roden like that?

739
00:40:48,749 --> 00:40:51,224
- Well, they let me go.
- And if they didn't?

740
00:40:51,235 --> 00:40:53,269
If they kept you in jail, you
think these friends of yours

741
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,647
would still be there when you got out?

742
00:40:55,741 --> 00:40:58,984
- God told me that...
- Oh, don't give me that crap!

743
00:40:59,203 --> 00:41:01,152
They might buy this whole messiah thing

744
00:41:01,163 --> 00:41:02,696
you've been feeding them, but I remember

745
00:41:02,706 --> 00:41:04,031
when you were still pissing your bed.

746
00:41:04,041 --> 00:41:05,084
Stop!

747
00:41:13,732 --> 00:41:15,891
God speaks to me!

748
00:41:15,902 --> 00:41:17,711
- Vernon?
- He didn't choose you!

749
00:41:17,721 --> 00:41:19,421
He didn't choose Grandma!

750
00:41:19,431 --> 00:41:20,923
He chose me!

751
00:41:20,933 --> 00:41:22,046
Me!

752
00:41:22,057 --> 00:41:24,676
- Vernon!
- Not anymore.

753
00:41:24,687 --> 00:41:26,189
You gave me that name.

754
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,612
But God's got bigger plans for me
than you could ever even thought of!

755
00:41:29,623 --> 00:41:31,115
Just get in the car.

756
00:41:31,235 --> 00:41:33,383
God's given me a new name.

757
00:41:33,512 --> 00:41:35,129
David Koresh.

758
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,184
From now on, you will
call me by my name!

759
00:41:37,195 --> 00:41:39,733
I will call you by your given name!

760
00:41:39,743 --> 00:41:41,235
Your real name!

761
00:41:41,245 --> 00:41:43,950
David Koresh is my real name!

762
00:41:44,569 --> 00:41:46,895
Or do you think you
know better than God?

763
00:41:47,156 --> 00:41:48,951
And is it God then who told you

764
00:41:48,961 --> 00:41:51,124
to impregnate Rachel's little sister?

765
00:41:51,295 --> 00:41:53,079
What is she, 14?

766
00:41:53,090 --> 00:41:55,749
You were 14 when you had me!

767
00:41:55,759 --> 00:41:57,376
And I remember what it felt

768
00:41:57,386 --> 00:41:59,530
like to be a 14-year-old mother.

769
00:41:59,541 --> 00:42:01,492
You know how that felt?

770
00:42:01,623 --> 00:42:03,543
Like I was too young!

771
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,969
I follow where God leads

772
00:42:13,237 --> 00:42:15,938
and if you can't get
with the program, then...

773
00:42:15,961 --> 00:42:18,078
well, then you'll never see
these grandkids of yours.

774
00:42:18,089 --> 00:42:20,415
How does that sound to
you? Is that what you want?

775
00:42:20,524 --> 00:42:23,391
And they'll ask me, "Daddy,
why don't I have a grandma?"

776
00:42:23,402 --> 00:42:25,686
And I'll say, "Oh, you do
have one out there somewhere,

777
00:42:25,697 --> 00:42:29,201
but she always had to know
best, better than God."

778
00:42:31,083 --> 00:42:33,425
Some souls just can't
be led to the spirit,

779
00:42:33,436 --> 00:42:36,314
no matter how hard you
scream and shout at them.

780
00:42:40,659 --> 00:42:41,986
Fine.

781
00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:44,814
Just get back in the car.

782
00:42:47,365 --> 00:42:49,784
Get back in the car what?

783
00:42:52,115 --> 00:42:54,325
Get back in the car, please.

784
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,972
Get back in the car please, David.

785
00:43:05,871 --> 00:43:07,321
<i>They're coming for your guns!</i>

786
00:43:07,331 --> 00:43:08,772
<i>They're coming for your kids!</i>

787
00:43:08,783 --> 00:43:10,358
They're coming for your guns!

788
00:43:10,369 --> 00:43:11,991
They're coming for your kids!

789
00:43:12,002 --> 00:43:13,535
They're coming for your guns!

790
00:43:13,545 --> 00:43:15,204
They're coming for your kids!

791
00:43:15,214 --> 00:43:16,789
They're coming for your guns!

792
00:43:16,799 --> 00:43:18,332
They're coming for your kids!

793
00:43:18,342 --> 00:43:19,833
They're coming for your guns!

794
00:43:19,843 --> 00:43:21,377
They're coming for your kids!

795
00:43:21,387 --> 00:43:23,003
They're coming for your guns!

796
00:43:23,013 --> 00:43:24,546
They're coming for your kids!

797
00:43:24,556 --> 00:43:26,507
They're coming for your guns!

798
00:43:26,517 --> 00:43:28,008
- They're coming for your kids!
<i>- Is it always like this?</i>

799
00:43:28,018 --> 00:43:29,635
Been a circus since day one.

800
00:43:29,645 --> 00:43:31,512
I've been telling them
we need more support,

801
00:43:31,522 --> 00:43:34,515
especially after one of the
jurors was followed home.

802
00:43:34,525 --> 00:43:36,141
- What?
- These guys are coming here

803
00:43:36,151 --> 00:43:37,569
from all over the country.

804
00:43:55,255 --> 00:43:58,996
So, you gonna ask Noesner
about the missing door?

805
00:43:59,007 --> 00:44:00,718
Yeah, probably.

806
00:44:01,009 --> 00:44:03,103
Hey, where is everyone?

807
00:44:03,473 --> 00:44:05,965
Hmm, maybe the bus is late.

808
00:44:05,976 --> 00:44:07,985
Oh, shit. Now what?

809
00:44:09,521 --> 00:44:11,305
What's up?

810
00:44:11,316 --> 00:44:14,142
It seems we got a bit
of a mutiny on our hands.

811
00:44:14,153 --> 00:44:17,813
You're denying us our
constitutional rights.

812
00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:20,609
We have a 6th Amendment
right to self-representation,

813
00:44:20,620 --> 00:44:22,228
and you're denying us that right.

814
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,939
Is this about testifying again?

815
00:44:23,949 --> 00:44:26,410
This is about speaking the truth!

816
00:44:26,744 --> 00:44:29,361
We're, we're good people,
and we just want the chance...

817
00:44:29,371 --> 00:44:30,904
Clive, we've talked about this.

818
00:44:30,914 --> 00:44:32,698
There's no way in hell
you're gonna testify.

819
00:44:34,126 --> 00:44:36,535
We already have an opinion on...

820
00:44:36,545 --> 00:44:39,214
All right. Stop. Stop! Stop!

821
00:44:43,126 --> 00:44:46,188
You wanna testify? You should
know what it's gonna be like.

822
00:44:47,122 --> 00:44:50,424
Mr. Fagan, you were a follower
of David Koresh, correct?

823
00:44:50,555 --> 00:44:52,426
- Yes.
- Did you believe him

824
00:44:52,436 --> 00:44:54,472
when he said the end times were coming?

825
00:44:54,544 --> 00:44:55,735
Yes.

826
00:44:55,758 --> 00:44:58,282
Is that why you were
preparing for battle?

827
00:44:59,429 --> 00:45:01,556
A spiritual battle.

828
00:45:02,089 --> 00:45:05,175
And were people gonna die
in this spiritual battle?

829
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:07,222
Yes.

830
00:45:07,272 --> 00:45:09,441
Mr. Fagan, have you ever shot anyone?

831
00:45:11,736 --> 00:45:15,156
Mr. Fagan, you swore on
a Bible to tell the truth.

832
00:45:15,167 --> 00:45:17,618
Now, I'll ask you again.
Have you ever shot anyone?

833
00:45:17,628 --> 00:45:19,471
- Dan...
- No, no, no. They wanna do this.

834
00:45:19,482 --> 00:45:22,985
Mr. Fatta, in 1988, you
were in a gun battle?

835
00:45:24,454 --> 00:45:26,404
Yes.

836
00:45:26,415 --> 00:45:28,115
A battle led by David Koresh,

837
00:45:28,126 --> 00:45:30,493
for which you were both arrested.

838
00:45:30,575 --> 00:45:32,661
What crime were you charged with?

839
00:45:34,181 --> 00:45:36,965
- Attempted murder.
- Attempted murder!

840
00:45:36,976 --> 00:45:39,639
You were prepared to kill
for Mr. Koresh, weren't you?

841
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:41,642
Because you would do
anything Mr. Koresh said.

842
00:45:41,652 --> 00:45:42,851
It wasn't like that.

843
00:45:42,861 --> 00:45:44,579
We made our own choices.

844
00:45:44,590 --> 00:45:47,249
So you had free will?

845
00:45:47,368 --> 00:45:50,194
- Yes.
- And what about you, Mr. Doyle,

846
00:45:50,258 --> 00:45:52,109
- were you brainwashed?
- No.

847
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,612
So you made your own choices as well?

848
00:45:53,622 --> 00:45:55,364
- Yes.
- So you chose to let

849
00:45:55,374 --> 00:45:58,627
your 12-year-old daughter
marry a 30-year-old man?

850
00:46:02,967 --> 00:46:04,271
You don't understand...

851
00:46:04,282 --> 00:46:05,531
- And what about you?
- ... what we...

852
00:46:05,542 --> 00:46:08,530
You knew what was
going on. Did you say anything?

853
00:46:08,541 --> 00:46:10,294
You have to know the Bible.

854
00:46:10,305 --> 00:46:12,683
What about you? Did you say anything?

855
00:46:14,344 --> 00:46:16,342
Did you? Or maybe you didn't care

856
00:46:16,353 --> 00:46:18,049
because you had a son
instead of a daughter.

857
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:20,642
- That's not fair!
- You are all complicit.

858
00:46:20,653 --> 00:46:23,474
You all saw, you knew, and
you didn't say anything.

859
00:46:23,485 --> 00:46:26,478
Do you know what the legal term
for these marriages of David's is?

860
00:46:26,488 --> 00:46:27,813
It's rape.

861
00:46:28,015 --> 00:46:29,702
It wasn't rape!

862
00:46:29,754 --> 00:46:32,139
It wasn't even sexual!
David married them

863
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:33,641
in order to have children!

864
00:46:33,652 --> 00:46:36,395
Is that why he married
a ten-year-old girl,

865
00:46:36,406 --> 00:46:38,492
because she was so fertile?

866
00:46:43,755 --> 00:46:46,581
You are not guilty of the
crime you've been accused of.

867
00:46:46,697 --> 00:46:49,273
And what the government
did at Mount Carmel

868
00:46:49,344 --> 00:46:51,263
is an abomination.

869
00:46:53,049 --> 00:46:54,874
But you're not innocent either.

870
00:46:54,885 --> 00:46:57,211
And if you get up there to testify,

871
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:59,804
that's all anybody will be left with.

872
00:47:16,362 --> 00:47:21,362
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