1 00:00:57,264 --> 00:01:01,268 2013, three years after the murder 2 00:01:02,311 --> 00:01:05,147 Gonna go see my aunt ! 3 00:01:07,441 --> 00:01:12,822 What's crazy is that we're here almost around the same time, 4 00:01:12,906 --> 00:01:16,743 in two days it'll be the three-year anniversary 5 00:01:16,826 --> 00:01:19,496 of the murder. 6 00:01:21,748 --> 00:01:23,500 There she is. 7 00:01:30,341 --> 00:01:33,719 - How you doing, baby ? - Good. 8 00:01:38,808 --> 00:01:41,602 So, when I pulled into the driveway, 9 00:01:41,686 --> 00:01:44,230 your mother's car was parked in the driveway. 10 00:01:44,314 --> 00:01:46,691 And it concerned me a little bit 11 00:01:46,775 --> 00:01:50,570 because, I thought she wasn't home, so I got out of the car. 12 00:01:50,654 --> 00:01:53,323 I was with your sister Ali, 13 00:01:53,407 --> 00:01:58,203 and your mother's purse was right here. 14 00:01:58,287 --> 00:02:03,042 Right here, lying on the ground. And her keys were there. 15 00:02:03,292 --> 00:02:07,380 And that was a statue right here at one point, 16 00:02:07,463 --> 00:02:10,174 and it was tipped over. 17 00:02:14,095 --> 00:02:17,390 And I see right here, 18 00:02:18,016 --> 00:02:20,393 there are these cushions from her, 19 00:02:20,477 --> 00:02:24,356 lawn furniture that are stacked up like blocks, building blocks. 20 00:02:25,983 --> 00:02:31,071 I go, and I kneel down and I still hesitate, 21 00:02:31,155 --> 00:02:33,616 and I pull one cushion off, 22 00:02:34,408 --> 00:02:38,037 and I see "It's an animal !" 23 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,124 "Thank God, it's just an animal." 24 00:02:41,207 --> 00:02:44,836 You know, like fur, and blood, it's just an animal. 25 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,005 And then God's like, "You're not done yet." 26 00:02:47,088 --> 00:02:49,299 "You have to take all the cushions off." 27 00:02:49,382 --> 00:02:54,054 So I did, and found my sister murdered here. 28 00:02:55,138 --> 00:02:58,809 It's just something I'll never forget. 29 00:02:58,892 --> 00:03:01,770 It was a horrible thing to see. 30 00:03:02,688 --> 00:03:05,524 You know what I mean ? Horrible. 31 00:03:07,151 --> 00:03:13,074 And also a week before the murder, your mom told, had a dream, 32 00:03:13,157 --> 00:03:16,035 and she told me that she 33 00:03:17,203 --> 00:03:20,123 had been murdered violently, 34 00:03:20,206 --> 00:03:25,170 and I said, "What ? By who ? What are you talking about ?" 35 00:03:25,253 --> 00:03:27,589 She wouldn't tell me. She just stopped. 36 00:03:27,673 --> 00:03:32,011 I said, "Barb, please tell me who did it." And she wouldn't tell me. 37 00:03:32,094 --> 00:03:35,139 So I felt like she was trying to protect someone. 38 00:03:39,310 --> 00:03:42,271 Who do you think she was trying to protect ? 39 00:04:34,118 --> 00:04:36,245 MURDER ON MIDDLE BEACH 40 00:04:39,999 --> 00:04:44,545 Episode 3 SISTERS 41 00:04:49,426 --> 00:04:51,845 2019 Mother's Day 42 00:04:58,268 --> 00:05:00,145 Alright. 43 00:05:00,229 --> 00:05:03,023 - What do I do ? - There you go. 44 00:05:03,774 --> 00:05:06,193 Hey, mom. 45 00:05:06,277 --> 00:05:11,032 We have projections of all the kids. 46 00:05:12,158 --> 00:05:14,744 - I don't know. - This is pretty cool. 47 00:05:14,827 --> 00:05:17,455 Yeah, this is cute. My gosh ! 48 00:05:17,538 --> 00:05:19,582 - Happy Mother's Day ! - Wild. 49 00:05:19,666 --> 00:05:23,128 It's beautiful. It's so you, darling. 50 00:05:23,211 --> 00:05:25,255 - It's just funny. - There I am. 51 00:05:25,338 --> 00:05:28,675 - There is Conway. - They grow up so fast. 52 00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:31,970 - That's Barbie. - Yeah, there's my mom. 53 00:05:33,347 --> 00:05:37,977 Your mother was a wonderful daughter, always. 54 00:05:38,894 --> 00:05:42,773 And it's hard when you have six children so close together, 55 00:05:42,857 --> 00:05:48,029 because I always felt that they all suffered a little neglect. 56 00:05:51,157 --> 00:05:55,203 What was my mother's relationship with her siblings ? 57 00:05:55,287 --> 00:05:56,913 Who was she closest with ? 58 00:05:56,997 --> 00:06:00,167 Probably Conway, and also Cathy. 59 00:06:00,876 --> 00:06:04,922 The three girls were like three peas in a pod. 60 00:06:06,340 --> 00:06:08,092 I remember the good times. 61 00:06:08,175 --> 00:06:14,223 Our dad used to think of great ideas to keep six kids entertained. 62 00:06:14,307 --> 00:06:18,311 He loved film. He did crazy things, 63 00:06:18,394 --> 00:06:20,814 like, we had a basketball court, and in the wintertime, 64 00:06:20,897 --> 00:06:24,985 Dad would fill it with water, and that would be our ice skating rink. 65 00:06:25,068 --> 00:06:28,405 He was a lot of fun. He really was. 66 00:06:30,115 --> 00:06:33,368 I don't remember my dad as an alcoholic. 67 00:06:35,287 --> 00:06:38,624 But it was rough on my parents and their marriage. 68 00:06:38,707 --> 00:06:41,752 So he packed his bags, and left. 69 00:06:43,087 --> 00:06:45,047 But he got sober 70 00:06:45,131 --> 00:06:49,636 and he's helped thousands of people with the disease of alcoholism, 71 00:06:49,719 --> 00:06:51,971 and he's spoken all over the world. 72 00:06:52,055 --> 00:06:54,724 Hi everybody, my name's Sandy Beach and I'm an alcoholic. 73 00:06:54,808 --> 00:06:55,976 Hi, Sandy ! 74 00:06:56,226 --> 00:06:58,770 And I'm sure honored to be here 75 00:06:59,021 --> 00:07:01,940 at your seventeenth Pennsylvania State Convention. 76 00:07:02,816 --> 00:07:08,239 Anyway, I got sober in 1964. I had the same sponsor for 42 years. 77 00:07:08,989 --> 00:07:14,245 I've been granted a vision of life that is precious. 78 00:07:14,328 --> 00:07:18,916 It is getting rid of the old perception about your life 79 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,213 and replacing it, little by little, with the truth. 80 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,344 It was kind of a hectic household to grow up in, you know. 81 00:07:30,721 --> 00:07:33,182 I was the youngest. 82 00:07:34,057 --> 00:07:37,561 The oldest brother was seven and a half years older than me, Chris, 83 00:07:37,645 --> 00:07:42,692 then Cathy, Leu, then Conway, Barb, 84 00:07:43,651 --> 00:07:46,696 and then I was two years younger than Barb. 85 00:07:46,779 --> 00:07:50,742 What was your relationship like with my mom, growing up ? 86 00:07:50,825 --> 00:07:52,577 The best. 87 00:07:56,873 --> 00:07:59,584 I felt like I was her protector. 88 00:08:01,670 --> 00:08:04,631 Alright, I'm gonna throw on another roll. 89 00:08:06,383 --> 00:08:08,010 Conway ? 90 00:08:08,469 --> 00:08:12,056 From as far back as I can remember, she's always been 91 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,934 a little more high maintenance, I guess. 92 00:08:15,017 --> 00:08:17,603 A little more fragile. 93 00:08:17,937 --> 00:08:22,233 I kinda tell my mom that she's like a fragile bull. 94 00:08:23,234 --> 00:08:25,779 I think that's the best way to put it. 95 00:08:37,833 --> 00:08:40,711 - I love this room. - It's cool. 96 00:08:41,003 --> 00:08:43,673 This had shag in it, it was comfy, cozy. 97 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:50,763 Anyhow it's just a great house. 98 00:08:54,851 --> 00:08:57,354 Well, I'm number four out of six kids. 99 00:08:58,939 --> 00:09:01,066 I'm the middle girl. 100 00:09:01,692 --> 00:09:05,279 My role was to just, keep peace, 101 00:09:05,946 --> 00:09:08,324 be seen not heard. 102 00:09:08,407 --> 00:09:12,411 I was just different than everyone else, from the beginning, from the get-go. 103 00:09:12,495 --> 00:09:15,998 The teachers would ask me, "Are you sure you're a Beach ?" 104 00:09:16,082 --> 00:09:19,544 Because, Leu was a genius, Chris was getting straight A's, 105 00:09:19,627 --> 00:09:23,673 Cathy was getting straight A's... I barely passed tests. 106 00:09:24,632 --> 00:09:30,180 I guess I was a good person to make fun of and have jokes about. 107 00:09:33,642 --> 00:09:35,811 And then Gram Platt's room. 108 00:09:35,894 --> 00:09:39,857 I have pictures of us jumping on up on her bed. 109 00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:42,693 I got me, Cathy, Barb. 110 00:09:42,777 --> 00:09:46,113 Gram Platt moved in with us, my mother's mother, 111 00:09:46,197 --> 00:09:48,825 and she was brought up very well-to-do. 112 00:09:49,701 --> 00:09:54,330 I can remember, as a little girl, having to walk with high heels on, 113 00:09:54,414 --> 00:09:57,417 and a dress on, be very prim and proper. 114 00:09:58,501 --> 00:10:02,047 But I also used to watch her go into the pantry, 115 00:10:02,130 --> 00:10:07,886 and she'd pour this white stuff in a glass, about this big, 116 00:10:07,970 --> 00:10:10,806 and she'd chug that baby down, 117 00:10:11,891 --> 00:10:14,226 and then chase it with water. 118 00:10:14,310 --> 00:10:18,481 And she became lovey, lovey, lovey. 119 00:10:19,065 --> 00:10:23,319 And I knew, when I grew up, I was going to be just like her. 120 00:10:27,991 --> 00:10:31,411 But I started really drinking by the time I was 13, 121 00:10:31,495 --> 00:10:34,498 and I'm a blackout drinker, so... 122 00:10:39,545 --> 00:10:42,798 Hey Aunt Bobby, remember when I was giving Madison his popsicle ? 123 00:10:42,882 --> 00:10:44,967 - Who's that ? - Tyler, say hi ! 124 00:10:45,051 --> 00:10:46,928 Hi ! 125 00:10:47,553 --> 00:10:50,515 I didn't have the average upbringing. 126 00:10:50,598 --> 00:10:54,477 I grew up, and my mother battled alcohol and drugs 127 00:10:54,561 --> 00:10:57,230 throughout my childhood. 128 00:10:57,313 --> 00:11:00,150 Aunt Bobby was, as I call her, 129 00:11:00,233 --> 00:11:04,154 was always there to swoop in and rescue me. 130 00:11:04,237 --> 00:11:06,490 She brought me into her home 131 00:11:06,573 --> 00:11:11,745 to show me that there was more to life than the life I was living. 132 00:11:13,539 --> 00:11:15,416 Batter's up ! 133 00:11:15,499 --> 00:11:19,378 She made me feel like one of her children. She wasn't just an aunt to me, 134 00:11:19,462 --> 00:11:22,215 she was another mother. 135 00:11:23,007 --> 00:11:26,928 The one thing that I will never get to tell her 136 00:11:29,973 --> 00:11:34,519 was how grateful I am that she came into my life. 137 00:11:37,564 --> 00:11:39,400 And that, 138 00:11:45,906 --> 00:11:50,369 if it wasn't for her, I don't know where I would be. 139 00:11:52,413 --> 00:11:55,124 And I'll never get to tell her that. 140 00:11:57,627 --> 00:12:02,382 And I'll never lead my kids down the path that my mother took me, 141 00:12:02,466 --> 00:12:05,928 because it's a horrible road to travel. 142 00:12:06,762 --> 00:12:09,306 - Who is Tyler ? - My son. 143 00:12:09,389 --> 00:12:12,810 I became a single mom at a very young age, 144 00:12:12,893 --> 00:12:15,312 and Tyler was 145 00:12:15,396 --> 00:12:20,985 your mother's first baby, in her eyes. 146 00:12:21,986 --> 00:12:28,535 And in 1996, I was out of control, and Barb knew it. 147 00:12:28,743 --> 00:12:32,998 Yes, rings ! Yes, we want rings. 148 00:12:33,081 --> 00:12:36,126 And, my whole family knew it. 149 00:12:36,209 --> 00:12:39,671 So, she took me to court. 150 00:12:39,755 --> 00:12:43,509 I was in full-blown alcoholism. 151 00:12:43,592 --> 00:12:48,014 They came to the house, and it was in shambles, 152 00:12:48,431 --> 00:12:51,392 and there was an eviction notice on the door. 153 00:12:51,809 --> 00:12:54,812 And she said, "Tyler, what do you wanna take ?" 154 00:12:54,896 --> 00:12:57,482 And he was a great baseball player, 155 00:12:57,565 --> 00:13:00,819 and he says, "I wanna take my bat, the Ghost," 156 00:13:00,902 --> 00:13:05,115 "and I wanna take my glove, and I wanna take my mom." 157 00:13:12,331 --> 00:13:16,752 And then, that whole year that we had, we finally got him. 158 00:13:17,086 --> 00:13:19,714 You know, I was like his dad. 159 00:13:20,298 --> 00:13:21,549 Yeah. 160 00:13:21,632 --> 00:13:24,052 'Cause he had nobody else to look to. I mean... 161 00:13:24,135 --> 00:13:26,512 Conway went away, she was in Florida, 162 00:13:26,888 --> 00:13:31,059 and we couldn't get in touch with her, so we drove down, 163 00:13:31,142 --> 00:13:34,312 and confronted her, to find out what was going on. 164 00:13:35,605 --> 00:13:39,985 And she was basically hanging out with some pimp, 165 00:13:41,278 --> 00:13:44,323 and she was doing drugs, 166 00:13:44,406 --> 00:13:48,494 and she was going to die. 167 00:13:48,577 --> 00:13:50,746 She was absolutely going to die. 168 00:13:51,706 --> 00:13:53,541 So on the way back we called everybody, 169 00:13:53,624 --> 00:13:57,086 called all your aunts and uncles, and your grandmother. 170 00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:01,800 Every one of them, except for Chris, 171 00:14:02,217 --> 00:14:05,637 said to us, in no uncertain terms, 172 00:14:05,721 --> 00:14:08,348 "Let her die." 173 00:14:09,182 --> 00:14:11,518 Can you, could you imagine ? 174 00:14:14,229 --> 00:14:16,482 So, I'm sleeping on park benches, 175 00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,318 and I'm figured I'd just live on the streets 176 00:14:19,402 --> 00:14:23,406 or sell myself short until I died, was basically my plan. 177 00:14:24,198 --> 00:14:28,703 But my ulterior plan was to get all my money out of my 401k plan, 178 00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:37,504 and get revenge against my baby sister, your mother, 179 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,095 your father and both of you, you and Ali. 180 00:14:48,307 --> 00:14:50,101 How ? 181 00:14:50,184 --> 00:14:52,061 I wanted to hire a hitman. 182 00:14:54,856 --> 00:14:59,360 But I was so messed up, I didn't know what to do, I was so angry. 183 00:14:59,444 --> 00:15:02,489 My whole family wasn't speaking to me. 184 00:15:02,572 --> 00:15:04,950 Where did you go ? How did you set it up ? 185 00:15:05,033 --> 00:15:08,036 I talked to complete strangers. 186 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,583 I was drunk all of the time, so I really don't know who I talked to. 187 00:15:12,666 --> 00:15:15,669 I remember talking to a taxicab driver, 188 00:15:15,753 --> 00:15:21,509 a bartender, "How can I hire a hitman ? What do you gotta do to do that ?" 189 00:15:23,553 --> 00:15:27,724 But I knew that I was supposed to meet somebody at a hotel. 190 00:15:27,807 --> 00:15:32,103 And finally, I had some money, so I stayed in a hotel in Orlando. 191 00:15:32,187 --> 00:15:35,106 I don't know the name of it, but it was nice. 192 00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:40,070 And I remember going into the bar, waiting to meet my hitman, 193 00:15:40,696 --> 00:15:46,035 and drinking, and then I blackout, 194 00:15:47,036 --> 00:15:49,538 and I woke up in my room, 195 00:15:51,791 --> 00:15:55,461 naked, and without a penny. 196 00:15:57,297 --> 00:15:59,173 I had been rolled. 197 00:16:06,973 --> 00:16:10,269 It's disturbing. I mean... 198 00:16:10,352 --> 00:16:14,606 Even if she just thought about it, it's disturbing. 199 00:16:16,483 --> 00:16:19,320 It makes you stop and think. 200 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:23,741 Again, I don't know the truth behind it. 201 00:16:27,954 --> 00:16:31,040 It's the kind of stuff you think only happens in movies, right ? 202 00:16:31,124 --> 00:16:32,959 I mean, not in real life. 203 00:16:35,712 --> 00:16:38,965 Did they ever think you were a person of interest ? 204 00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:40,592 Yes. 205 00:16:41,009 --> 00:16:44,930 And I admitted that I had tried to hire a hitman. 206 00:16:45,764 --> 00:16:48,934 - Did you ever tell my mom ? - Yes. 207 00:16:49,769 --> 00:16:52,647 - Did that make her paranoid ? - No. 208 00:16:52,730 --> 00:16:55,983 - How she react ? - She could totally relate. 209 00:16:56,067 --> 00:16:58,945 She was an alcoholic like me. 210 00:16:59,028 --> 00:17:03,032 Do you think she would've ever hired a hitman to kill you, to kill Tyler ? 211 00:17:03,324 --> 00:17:07,829 I think some people can get to a point, I don't care who it is, 212 00:17:07,913 --> 00:17:11,833 when they can snap, I'm not saying your mother would do that... 213 00:17:12,459 --> 00:17:18,424 But I think we become mother bears no matter what. 214 00:17:18,841 --> 00:17:21,927 - And you snapped ? - I snapped. 215 00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:25,056 I'm not proud of that. 216 00:17:37,861 --> 00:17:40,530 She's really happy you're here. 217 00:17:42,532 --> 00:17:46,745 This is the first time I've felt her the most, she's been so mad at me. 218 00:17:56,756 --> 00:18:01,553 Acceptance has its biggest power when you accept immediately. 219 00:18:01,636 --> 00:18:05,598 On March 3rd, my youngest daughter, Barbara, 220 00:18:05,682 --> 00:18:09,561 was murdered in her home in Madison. 221 00:18:09,936 --> 00:18:13,023 She had taken her daughter to high school, and when she came home, 222 00:18:13,106 --> 00:18:17,486 somebody was waiting, and really brutally murdered her. 223 00:18:18,195 --> 00:18:22,992 And my second daughter, Conway, 224 00:18:23,075 --> 00:18:26,204 discovered the body and took charge. 225 00:18:26,287 --> 00:18:30,833 So when my daughter called me and said, "Are you sitting down ?" 226 00:18:30,917 --> 00:18:33,086 and as she was talking, 227 00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:39,426 I fully accepted that my relationship with Barbie was on a new level. 228 00:18:39,509 --> 00:18:44,640 From now on, it's gonna be composed of memories and stories, 229 00:18:45,224 --> 00:18:48,602 and I'll be able to talk about it until the cows come home, 230 00:18:48,686 --> 00:18:51,355 and it'll still be wonderful. 231 00:19:10,709 --> 00:19:14,171 We all were coming up with theories, you must understand. 232 00:19:14,254 --> 00:19:16,590 What bothered me was, they couldn't determine 233 00:19:16,673 --> 00:19:19,468 whether or not she was coming home, or going out. 234 00:19:19,551 --> 00:19:22,179 I say she was going out. 235 00:19:23,639 --> 00:19:25,933 Why would she be going out, 236 00:19:26,517 --> 00:19:28,936 if she already dropped Ali off ? 237 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:32,273 She was leaving to take Ali is what I say. 238 00:19:33,066 --> 00:19:36,778 - Do you understand what I'm saying ? - Got it. 239 00:19:42,617 --> 00:19:45,162 I'm so sorry. 240 00:19:45,621 --> 00:19:46,955 Why are you sorry ? 241 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,959 I'm sorry that I think your sister had something to do with it, 242 00:19:50,042 --> 00:19:51,919 but I can't help it. 243 00:19:57,633 --> 00:20:00,303 I think it's gonna die, it's flashing. 244 00:20:00,386 --> 00:20:02,680 That means it's recording. 245 00:20:13,567 --> 00:20:15,694 Why do you think it was Ali ? 246 00:20:16,528 --> 00:20:21,533 I just think it was very bizarre. It looked staged. 247 00:20:21,617 --> 00:20:23,577 Can you tell me, walking through the crime scene, 248 00:20:23,661 --> 00:20:26,914 things that might have seemed suspicious ? 249 00:20:28,457 --> 00:20:31,336 Ali and I pulled up to your home 250 00:20:31,502 --> 00:20:36,257 and Ali is walking in front of me to the front door. 251 00:20:36,341 --> 00:20:40,053 And she goes, "There's Mom's purse !" 252 00:20:41,471 --> 00:20:46,393 "There's Mom's keys !" So I go to pick up her purse, 253 00:20:47,311 --> 00:20:50,439 and she said, "Don't touch that, it's a crime scene." 254 00:20:50,522 --> 00:20:55,194 I'm like, "You're out of your mind. What's wrong with you, child ?" 255 00:20:55,277 --> 00:20:58,322 So I pick up the purse, I pick up the keys. 256 00:20:58,865 --> 00:21:02,577 Why would you think this is a crime scene, there's not one ounce of blood, 257 00:21:02,952 --> 00:21:06,790 her purse has everything in it, 258 00:21:07,082 --> 00:21:10,210 there's nothing that looks like a crime scene. 259 00:21:12,212 --> 00:21:16,008 I believe she already knew before she got there. 260 00:21:17,259 --> 00:21:19,720 How did Ali react after the murder ? 261 00:21:19,803 --> 00:21:22,014 She left the country. 262 00:21:23,098 --> 00:21:27,478 She's in Argentina now, as far as I know. 263 00:21:29,355 --> 00:21:32,150 I escaped my grief. 264 00:21:33,276 --> 00:21:36,362 When I graduated high school, I left. 265 00:21:36,446 --> 00:21:40,575 I was really unhappy when I left the United States. I was angry. 266 00:21:41,076 --> 00:21:43,954 So I traveled, I backpacked. 267 00:21:44,579 --> 00:21:49,710 Did Chile, Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, 268 00:21:49,793 --> 00:21:53,297 and then I went down to Argentina, where I live now. 269 00:21:54,131 --> 00:21:57,301 Literally, I went to the end of the world. 270 00:21:58,427 --> 00:22:01,389 I wasn't ready to face everything again. 271 00:22:08,521 --> 00:22:10,649 You guys set ? 272 00:22:15,445 --> 00:22:16,947 Alright, Ali. 273 00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:21,285 So, I just wanna know, kind of like, a little background. 274 00:22:21,702 --> 00:22:23,621 Here we go. Here it is. 275 00:22:23,746 --> 00:22:27,875 Ali, tell Aunt Stacey how you get into the rock garden. 276 00:22:27,958 --> 00:22:32,130 - You're on, baby. - There's the carpet right there. 277 00:22:32,380 --> 00:22:34,340 - That's beautiful. - I know you weren't doing anything... 278 00:22:34,424 --> 00:22:36,593 What inspired you to make your rock garden, Ali ? 279 00:22:36,676 --> 00:22:38,219 I can smell it. 280 00:22:38,303 --> 00:22:42,182 What was the dynamic like between our parents, growing up ? 281 00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:45,227 I remember them fighting a lot. 282 00:22:45,394 --> 00:22:48,272 Mom would drink quite a bit. 283 00:22:48,564 --> 00:22:52,234 I remember, Mom always had, like, a cup of "water," 284 00:22:52,318 --> 00:22:55,738 and one time, when I was little, I tried to drink it, and it was vodka. 285 00:22:57,406 --> 00:23:00,451 I never really felt like it was very stable. 286 00:23:00,535 --> 00:23:05,498 There was always a lot of change. I heard a lot of screaming. 287 00:23:05,582 --> 00:23:10,712 A lotta, lotta screaming. That definitely impacts a little kid. 288 00:23:10,795 --> 00:23:13,840 Like, until this day, I can't be around people who are screaming. 289 00:23:13,924 --> 00:23:18,804 Makes me really uncomfortable. Mom was definitely a more lenient parent. 290 00:23:19,388 --> 00:23:22,391 Mom was very loving. 291 00:23:23,058 --> 00:23:27,104 I think she had a hard time keeping things in control when she was drinking. 292 00:23:28,898 --> 00:23:32,527 And Dad was super controlling, 293 00:23:32,610 --> 00:23:35,697 and I remember he implanted a lot of fear in us. 294 00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:39,576 Literally everything could kill us. If we wanted to play in the grass, 295 00:23:39,659 --> 00:23:44,456 we had to wear long pants, long socks, light clothing, because of the ticks. 296 00:23:44,539 --> 00:23:46,917 Dad scared me a little bit. 297 00:23:48,669 --> 00:23:52,631 When was the divorce official, or when did they tell us ? 298 00:23:52,715 --> 00:23:56,468 They told us on Christmas Day. 299 00:23:56,552 --> 00:24:01,098 I remember something that really stuck with me until now, 300 00:24:01,182 --> 00:24:05,395 Mom was with me in my room, and she was crying, and she told me, 301 00:24:05,478 --> 00:24:08,439 "Don't ever depend on a man." 302 00:24:09,274 --> 00:24:12,277 And to this day I've never depended on a man. 303 00:24:13,695 --> 00:24:16,907 It was pretty hard because Mom started drinking a lot more, 304 00:24:16,990 --> 00:24:19,743 and Dad was also very manipulating 305 00:24:19,826 --> 00:24:24,957 and would tell me a lot of things about Mom that weren't nice, 306 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,376 and would try and make me... 307 00:24:28,502 --> 00:24:33,382 I don't know if go against her... It was confusing. 308 00:24:33,466 --> 00:24:35,927 Your dad was very controlling, 309 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:39,472 to the point where I think he nearly drove your sister crazy. 310 00:24:39,556 --> 00:24:41,766 She would come home from school, 311 00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:44,686 and she would work on her homework for four hours. 312 00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:49,483 And then he would correct it, and have her redo the homework again. 313 00:24:49,566 --> 00:24:52,986 So, she would be doing homework for like six hours every day. 314 00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:55,489 She had no after school life. 315 00:24:55,572 --> 00:25:01,078 And I'm amazed that she put up with that, frankly, because she was 13. 316 00:25:01,162 --> 00:25:04,290 But then she had a nervous breakdown, really. 317 00:25:06,918 --> 00:25:09,671 So, when did you start feeling sick ? 318 00:25:09,754 --> 00:25:14,175 I went to the nurse, when I was in 7th grade, 319 00:25:14,634 --> 00:25:20,057 because I, like, the back of my head really hurt here, and here. 320 00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:23,394 Like I was in a lot of pain. And we went to the doctor, 321 00:25:23,477 --> 00:25:26,647 and it was because my thyroids were, like, bulging out of my neck. 322 00:25:26,730 --> 00:25:29,859 I was super lethargic, I couldn't eat. 323 00:25:30,818 --> 00:25:35,531 There was a point where I was throwing up, like I couldn't keep any food down. 324 00:25:35,615 --> 00:25:38,326 I think I was in the hospital for about a month and a half, 325 00:25:38,409 --> 00:25:41,287 on every type of drug you could possibly imagine. 326 00:25:41,371 --> 00:25:44,291 And they couldn't find out what was wrong with me, 327 00:25:44,374 --> 00:25:48,837 I couldn't walk, I relearn how to walk, 328 00:25:49,296 --> 00:25:51,506 and they finally came to the conclusion 329 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:54,843 that my body had gone into shock from my thyroid, 330 00:25:54,927 --> 00:25:56,971 but the rest of my problems were psychological. 331 00:25:58,097 --> 00:26:01,183 She developed two things at the same time, alright ? 332 00:26:01,267 --> 00:26:04,937 One was this physical disease, this Graves' Disease, 333 00:26:05,021 --> 00:26:09,234 and the other was, Borderline Personality Disorder. 334 00:26:10,568 --> 00:26:15,073 You switch from liking somebody, or, in this case, a parent, 335 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,368 and then, you hate them, you know, with all your heart, 336 00:26:18,452 --> 00:26:20,954 and then you switch the other way, where she wanted 337 00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:23,499 to kill her mother, at one point, 338 00:26:24,416 --> 00:26:27,836 because your mother was really not nice to your sister. 339 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,381 She pushed her down the stairs once. 340 00:26:30,464 --> 00:26:34,218 She slapped her, I mean there was a lot of things that were going on... 341 00:26:34,302 --> 00:26:37,513 And she was very verbally abusive to her. 342 00:26:37,597 --> 00:26:40,433 It eventually caught up with your sister. 343 00:26:40,517 --> 00:26:44,479 Your mother wanted to commit her to a psychiatric institution, 344 00:26:44,562 --> 00:26:46,982 and I didn't wanna do that, 345 00:26:47,065 --> 00:26:50,110 and then, she came home and she moved in with me. 346 00:26:51,069 --> 00:26:55,657 I did whatever I could to talk to her, get at the problems that she had, 347 00:26:56,033 --> 00:27:00,996 and, you know, after many months, she started to come around. 348 00:27:01,414 --> 00:27:05,251 I remember one day, I decided I didn't wanna be sick anymore. 349 00:27:06,002 --> 00:27:09,547 I started swimming and running and biking, 350 00:27:09,631 --> 00:27:16,304 and trying to just be a normal little girl again, and in all of that time, 351 00:27:16,388 --> 00:27:19,141 Dad told me that Mom was the one that wanted 352 00:27:19,224 --> 00:27:21,226 to send me to the psychological hospital. 353 00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:26,023 And I was really angry about the things that Dad told me, 354 00:27:26,106 --> 00:27:29,443 and I decided I didn't want to live with Mom anymore. 355 00:27:30,736 --> 00:27:32,905 My sister went and lived with my dad, 356 00:27:32,989 --> 00:27:36,409 and me and my mom moved into a house down here. 357 00:27:37,452 --> 00:27:41,789 Your mother was insecure at that time. 358 00:27:41,873 --> 00:27:45,293 And her relationship with Ali was very insecure 359 00:27:45,377 --> 00:27:48,004 because Ali chose to be with your father instead of her. 360 00:27:48,088 --> 00:27:52,175 And that hurt her so deeply. And she just want her back. 361 00:27:56,472 --> 00:27:58,641 Things with Dad weren't good... 362 00:27:59,558 --> 00:28:01,519 He would take the door off the hinges, 363 00:28:01,602 --> 00:28:04,480 cause he thought I was closing him out of my life. 364 00:28:04,563 --> 00:28:08,276 He was just really controlling, and I called Mom, 365 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,947 and I asked her to come get me, and I asked her if I could live with her 366 00:28:13,615 --> 00:28:17,202 and I stopped talking to Dad. 367 00:28:19,246 --> 00:28:23,083 One day, your mother came, picked her up, and just left. 368 00:28:23,917 --> 00:28:26,754 But this is a part of Borderline Personality Disorders. 369 00:28:26,837 --> 00:28:31,008 Usually, you hate one ,and you like the other one, and then one day you flip. 370 00:28:31,091 --> 00:28:35,012 Her mental situation was not still great. 371 00:28:36,138 --> 00:28:41,853 I was not okay, and I think that a lot of those diagnoses 372 00:28:41,936 --> 00:28:45,398 were products of the environment I was living in, 373 00:28:45,482 --> 00:28:49,319 and my way of escaping everything that was happening. 374 00:28:50,112 --> 00:28:53,657 And what was our dynamic like when you came back ? 375 00:28:53,740 --> 00:28:56,034 You were really angry with me for leaving. 376 00:28:56,326 --> 00:28:59,747 And you outwardly told me that on various occasions, 377 00:28:59,830 --> 00:29:02,333 in various fights that we had. 378 00:29:03,709 --> 00:29:06,295 Do you think that she was enabling me ? 379 00:29:06,379 --> 00:29:08,005 - Drug addiction... - Yes. 380 00:29:09,215 --> 00:29:12,760 She was a recovering alcoholic, she was trying to be sober 381 00:29:12,844 --> 00:29:15,889 and you were out of control. 382 00:29:16,973 --> 00:29:20,185 Do you think she was afraid of losing you ? 383 00:29:20,268 --> 00:29:22,854 I think she was afraid of me going back to Dad's, yeah. 384 00:29:22,938 --> 00:29:26,650 I think she was afraid of me not talking to her again, 385 00:29:28,068 --> 00:29:30,279 yeah, I think it hurt her a lot. 386 00:29:32,072 --> 00:29:37,286 Your mother was so fearful of losing Ali, 387 00:29:37,370 --> 00:29:40,081 that she, I think, overindulged her, 388 00:29:40,331 --> 00:29:43,042 became more of a friend instead of a parent. 389 00:29:43,126 --> 00:29:46,379 And I think Ali just walked all over her. 390 00:29:50,217 --> 00:29:55,514 I did not like the way Ali treated your mother at all, ever. Ever. 391 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:03,063 She abused drugs and alcohol and boys all of the time. 392 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,610 When did you start becoming close to my mother again ? 393 00:30:07,693 --> 00:30:13,157 You know, I've had a lot of health issues, breast cancer, brain surgery. 394 00:30:13,241 --> 00:30:18,121 That's why I came to your mom and lived there after brain surgery. 395 00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:21,333 But Ali did not want me living at the house. 396 00:30:22,667 --> 00:30:27,172 Every morning I would wake up to her screaming at my sister, 397 00:30:27,548 --> 00:30:30,342 and telling her to fuck off, every morning. 398 00:30:30,634 --> 00:30:35,389 And I told her not to talk to my sister like that ever again. 399 00:30:35,473 --> 00:30:38,517 She goes, "Fuck you, she's my mother," 400 00:30:38,601 --> 00:30:41,896 "and I'll talk to her any fucking way I want." 401 00:30:41,979 --> 00:30:44,315 When your mom got home that day she goes, 402 00:30:44,399 --> 00:30:49,613 "Either she goes or I go, Mom. You choose." 403 00:30:50,697 --> 00:30:53,617 Everybody was afraid of Ali, 404 00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:56,578 and I was afraid of Ali. 405 00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:06,339 When was the last time you saw Mom ? 406 00:31:06,464 --> 00:31:09,258 That day I was running late for school, 407 00:31:09,342 --> 00:31:14,472 and Mom took me in her white Honda, the big SUV. 408 00:31:16,141 --> 00:31:19,602 We went to Willoughby's first, which was the coffee shop, 409 00:31:20,437 --> 00:31:25,901 and I got a Chai, which I loved, and she brought me to school. 410 00:31:28,403 --> 00:31:30,781 She told the school I was gonna be late. 411 00:31:30,864 --> 00:31:35,035 She gave me a kiss, she said she loved me and she left me at school. 412 00:31:37,621 --> 00:31:43,294 Around 11 o'clock in the morning, I was in the study center, 413 00:31:44,003 --> 00:31:48,466 and I started texting Mom, telling her I wanted her to come get me. 414 00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:52,262 - Why did you want to go home ? - I wanted to leave school. 415 00:31:52,345 --> 00:31:54,514 - Was that normal for you ? - Yeah. 416 00:31:54,598 --> 00:31:57,768 At that time in my life, it was really hard for me to stay in school. 417 00:31:59,228 --> 00:32:03,524 And I texted her, "Please come get me." And she didn't respond. 418 00:32:03,941 --> 00:32:07,570 I called her a lot, she didn't respond, so I called Conway. 419 00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:14,869 Ali said that she had to wake up your mom to take her to school 420 00:32:15,370 --> 00:32:19,916 and your mom took her to school in her pajamas, apparently. 421 00:32:20,709 --> 00:32:22,711 What do you think happened ? 422 00:32:26,131 --> 00:32:29,426 I believe that Ali could have murdered her mother, 423 00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:33,013 walked to school, which she had done many times, 424 00:32:33,097 --> 00:32:37,476 started texting her mother and texting me. 425 00:32:39,186 --> 00:32:42,774 I believe that's reality that occur. 426 00:32:42,857 --> 00:32:46,736 I'm thinking she got so mad at her mom, 427 00:32:46,819 --> 00:32:51,116 for maybe breaking up a party, that she lost it finally. 428 00:32:51,199 --> 00:32:55,579 I believe anyone can snap, at any given time, 429 00:32:56,371 --> 00:32:59,875 especially when you're fucked up on drugs and alcohol. 430 00:33:01,210 --> 00:33:04,588 I know from my own personal experience. 431 00:33:04,672 --> 00:33:07,883 - A woman is dead... - Detectives combing the yard. 432 00:33:08,801 --> 00:33:12,555 I have all these thoughts, Madison, that don't stop. 433 00:33:14,682 --> 00:33:18,061 It's so hard to know who to trust. 434 00:33:18,144 --> 00:33:20,355 I think Conway believes what she's saying, 435 00:33:20,438 --> 00:33:23,525 I don't think my sister is capable of something like this. 436 00:33:23,608 --> 00:33:25,902 but if she had anything to do with this, 437 00:33:25,986 --> 00:33:29,281 I don't know if I would wanna know, you know. 438 00:33:29,781 --> 00:33:33,202 To me, that is way more implausible 439 00:33:33,285 --> 00:33:37,039 that she would commit a fucking gruesome murder... 440 00:33:37,123 --> 00:33:38,374 And then go to school ? 441 00:33:38,457 --> 00:33:41,502 And be ready to get to school ? Who the fuck can do that ? 442 00:33:41,586 --> 00:33:43,755 How hard would it be for your sister 443 00:33:43,838 --> 00:33:47,425 to even just drag your mom's body across the yard ? 444 00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:52,597 We should, like, walk through what happened with the crime scene. 445 00:33:55,183 --> 00:33:58,687 Yeah. The walkthrough that you had your aunt do is very helpful. 446 00:33:58,770 --> 00:34:00,272 It tells a lot. 447 00:34:02,232 --> 00:34:08,072 And there was a statue right here at one point and it was tipped over. 448 00:34:09,323 --> 00:34:12,702 So the dog statue is here. 449 00:34:12,785 --> 00:34:16,205 There was some type of a confrontation or something 450 00:34:16,289 --> 00:34:19,959 in the area in front of the door, to knock over the dog statue. 451 00:34:20,043 --> 00:34:22,629 Yeah. This gets knocked over. 452 00:34:26,258 --> 00:34:29,636 And then there was a coffee cup, it was on the ground. 453 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:31,805 Coffee cup lands here. 454 00:34:33,140 --> 00:34:37,478 For some reason, there was a pallet right here. 455 00:34:37,603 --> 00:34:40,231 When they open up the crime scene, 456 00:34:40,314 --> 00:34:43,526 there was a huge pool of blood under it. 457 00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:48,948 Yeah, so this is where the palette is. There is a pool of blood under it. 458 00:34:49,032 --> 00:34:51,826 She was probably killed here and moved to the side of the house, 459 00:34:51,910 --> 00:34:54,955 where they found her body. Out of the line of sight is a golf course. 460 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,127 I see right here, there are these cushions from her lawn furniture. 461 00:35:00,210 --> 00:35:05,549 The cushions are possibly from the lawn furniture in the back yard, 462 00:35:05,633 --> 00:35:09,053 in the garage, because it was cold that time of year. 463 00:35:15,643 --> 00:35:18,521 I haven't been back here in 6 years. 464 00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:22,275 - You doing okay ? - Yeah, I'm alright. 465 00:35:26,488 --> 00:35:29,157 This is changed so much. 466 00:35:29,574 --> 00:35:31,952 The ground has been raised. 467 00:35:32,035 --> 00:35:36,373 It looks like they converted the garage into a screen porch. 468 00:35:38,334 --> 00:35:43,881 So, we have these markers for where things were. 469 00:35:49,095 --> 00:35:50,597 Pallet. 470 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,058 So it would've been leaning up against the wall, right ? 471 00:35:53,141 --> 00:35:54,768 - Yeah, that is heavy ? - Yeah. 472 00:35:54,851 --> 00:35:58,063 We'll grab one sandbag, I think it's that. 473 00:35:58,146 --> 00:36:01,733 - And your mom's 160 pounds. - 160 pounds. 474 00:36:04,695 --> 00:36:08,365 Confrontation starts, drop the phone, 475 00:36:08,532 --> 00:36:12,745 going this way, drop the keys, drop the purse. 476 00:36:12,828 --> 00:36:16,416 Back-pedaling or trying to get away. Land here. 477 00:36:16,666 --> 00:36:20,837 Now they're looking around. Seeing the golf course. 478 00:36:21,796 --> 00:36:24,341 And then dragging, 479 00:36:29,054 --> 00:36:33,934 it would take a lot longer, for a 16-year-old girl. 480 00:36:36,562 --> 00:36:39,148 This house has a clear line of sight. 481 00:36:43,402 --> 00:36:46,531 Covering the body, 482 00:36:46,614 --> 00:36:49,784 and there would be bushes to help cover her, 483 00:36:50,076 --> 00:36:54,748 but they see the blood spot, the pallet. 484 00:36:56,791 --> 00:36:58,877 Hide the bloodspot. 485 00:37:01,755 --> 00:37:06,552 I mean, just physically, pulling 160 pounds. 486 00:37:06,635 --> 00:37:09,889 - Yeah. - I don't know if my sister can do that. 487 00:37:12,850 --> 00:37:18,773 I can't get over, covering the bloodspot, covering the body. 488 00:37:18,856 --> 00:37:24,946 But, not covering this stuff. It's like half covered up. 489 00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:28,116 I wouldn't characterize it as starting to clean up. 490 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,328 Their focus was on what they had done to your mother... 491 00:37:31,411 --> 00:37:36,166 And it could be a moment where the person is sorry, is emotional, 492 00:37:36,250 --> 00:37:39,169 wants to cover the body 'cause they don't wanna look at the person 493 00:37:39,253 --> 00:37:41,422 and what they've done. 494 00:37:41,505 --> 00:37:43,049 And they're not thinking rationally. 495 00:37:43,132 --> 00:37:47,470 We're trying to make sense out of a senseless act. 496 00:37:48,096 --> 00:37:50,056 Right here. 497 00:37:50,306 --> 00:37:54,394 Numerous puncture wounds on the head, throat, back of neck. 498 00:37:54,477 --> 00:37:57,439 Area of softness in the back of the head. 499 00:37:57,772 --> 00:38:00,734 Defensive wounds on both hands. 500 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,154 Broken arm. Broken rib. 501 00:38:04,404 --> 00:38:07,157 Interior torso, scrapes and abrasions. 502 00:38:07,992 --> 00:38:09,994 Because of the blow to the skull, 503 00:38:10,077 --> 00:38:14,498 I've been told by several different people was probably a hammer. 504 00:38:14,582 --> 00:38:17,877 That many wounds in the face, neck, head area ? 505 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,131 That indicates the person, was in rage, very emotional. 506 00:38:22,215 --> 00:38:24,509 Very angry, and that usually tells you 507 00:38:24,592 --> 00:38:27,178 that there was a relationship between those two people. 508 00:38:27,262 --> 00:38:32,476 Jealousy, or anger, or usually from some type of a personal relationship. 509 00:38:34,853 --> 00:38:37,356 Where could the murder weapons have come from ? 510 00:38:37,439 --> 00:38:39,608 I don't know. 511 00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:43,904 Those are the things we have around our home normally. 512 00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:46,949 Who doesn't have a hammer ? 513 00:38:47,658 --> 00:38:49,452 Who doesn't have knives ? 514 00:38:52,163 --> 00:38:54,874 It was like, as if, in my mind, 515 00:38:54,958 --> 00:38:58,920 your sister somehow decided this would be really good. 516 00:38:59,421 --> 00:39:03,467 Get all the life insurance money of your mother's. 517 00:39:05,177 --> 00:39:08,305 And I know that's a terrible way to think. 518 00:39:08,389 --> 00:39:13,227 But when I saw what I saw, and I know how Ali treated her... 519 00:39:23,696 --> 00:39:26,199 - Did you do it ? - No. 520 00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:28,910 Impossible. 521 00:39:33,206 --> 00:39:37,169 - I have to ask. - I know, I don't take it personally. 522 00:39:37,252 --> 00:39:40,798 I could never have done that, I loved Mom with all my heart. 523 00:39:43,634 --> 00:39:47,054 If you could say something to Mom right now, 524 00:39:48,347 --> 00:39:49,682 what would you say ? 525 00:39:49,765 --> 00:39:54,729 That I love you, and that, I miss you. 526 00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:58,316 And that I wish I could hug you. 527 00:39:58,733 --> 00:40:03,071 But that I know she's okay. I do. I know she's okay, 528 00:40:03,905 --> 00:40:06,992 and I know that she's up there protecting us. 529 00:40:14,625 --> 00:40:16,836 Who's telling you it could be your sister, Conway ? 530 00:40:16,919 --> 00:40:18,462 Yeah. 531 00:40:18,546 --> 00:40:21,340 Why is she so focused on that ? 532 00:40:21,424 --> 00:40:27,389 I don't know. My aunt I guess doesn't trust my sister's alibi. And... 533 00:40:27,472 --> 00:40:29,474 This is coming from Conway, not your sister ? 534 00:40:29,557 --> 00:40:31,184 Right. 535 00:40:31,268 --> 00:40:33,937 How well do you know your Aunt Connie ? 536 00:40:34,021 --> 00:40:36,732 Do you believe the story she told you ? 537 00:40:39,985 --> 00:40:42,863 What was your relationship like with Conway ? 538 00:40:42,947 --> 00:40:47,326 Conway is a super loving person, who is open to love anyone, 539 00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:52,123 but she's very dependent on other people. 540 00:40:53,291 --> 00:40:57,086 She had had breast cancer, and then had had a brain tumor, 541 00:40:57,170 --> 00:41:00,757 and her husband left her, and she had had a nervous breakdown, 542 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:06,138 and she came to live with us so my mom could take care of her. 543 00:41:06,221 --> 00:41:09,850 I think that at some points I thought she was taking advantage of Mom. 544 00:41:12,186 --> 00:41:15,022 Your mom did not want Conway up north here. 545 00:41:15,105 --> 00:41:16,941 - Really ? - No. 546 00:41:17,024 --> 00:41:23,239 It's really hard when you have somebody that you've been trying to help. 547 00:41:23,322 --> 00:41:28,703 Conway wasn't healthy, she was using her illnesses as an excuse not to work, 548 00:41:28,787 --> 00:41:33,875 using her illnesses as an excuse not to be of service. 549 00:41:35,627 --> 00:41:40,007 Then there was this rift, as you call it, with the Tables. 550 00:41:40,090 --> 00:41:43,302 - With the Gifting Tables ? - Yeah. 551 00:41:43,385 --> 00:41:48,057 Your mother put herself behind Conway to help Conway, with the Tables. 552 00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,561 And Conway can be difficult. 553 00:41:51,644 --> 00:41:55,982 So I mean, it was just too much, I think, for both of them. 554 00:41:56,065 --> 00:41:59,235 Your mother asked Conway to leave her house. 555 00:41:59,319 --> 00:42:01,446 Was she angry at my mother ? 556 00:42:01,529 --> 00:42:05,325 I think when you feel as though you've been abandoned, 557 00:42:05,409 --> 00:42:10,539 it's hard, really hard, especially when it was her sister. 558 00:42:11,915 --> 00:42:15,586 And people, I don't think can appreciate what that means. 559 00:42:15,669 --> 00:42:20,508 But when your world is ripped apart, it can do things to you. 560 00:42:24,220 --> 00:42:27,515 There was an odd testimony at the trial 561 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,227 about receiving threats from you. 562 00:42:31,311 --> 00:42:33,897 Something was wrong with that girl. 563 00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:38,235 She was telling people that I was putting dead rabbits at her door. 564 00:42:39,194 --> 00:42:41,530 When did she claim you were doing that ? 565 00:42:41,613 --> 00:42:44,158 When she didn't get her money back right away. 566 00:42:44,241 --> 00:42:45,951 From my mom ? 567 00:42:46,076 --> 00:42:49,497 As you sit there, are you afraid of Conway Beach ? 568 00:42:49,580 --> 00:42:51,207 Yes, sir. 569 00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:55,003 She believes I murdered my sister 570 00:42:55,086 --> 00:42:58,214 because I wanted my sister's life. 571 00:42:59,883 --> 00:43:02,928 Do you know where Conway was that day ? 572 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,932 Conway had been with my mother early in the day, 573 00:43:07,015 --> 00:43:09,226 they were down in my mother's basement. 574 00:43:09,309 --> 00:43:12,896 My mother was always perpetually cleaning out the basement. 575 00:43:12,980 --> 00:43:16,358 She may have actually been living with my mother at that point in time. 576 00:43:16,442 --> 00:43:18,944 - Where were you staying ? - I was at Nat's. 577 00:43:19,028 --> 00:43:22,323 - What were you doing at Nat's ? - In her basement. Cleaning up. 578 00:43:22,406 --> 00:43:24,450 I had been working on it for weeks for her. 579 00:43:24,534 --> 00:43:29,038 - Why were you doing that ? - She wanted it done. She's 90. 580 00:43:29,122 --> 00:43:31,249 Who else saw you at Nat's ? 581 00:43:31,332 --> 00:43:33,293 - How do we... What is your... - Nat. 582 00:43:33,376 --> 00:43:36,421 Okay. Do you have any, like, evidence or anything like that ? 583 00:43:36,505 --> 00:43:38,507 Nat was there. 584 00:43:39,549 --> 00:43:41,510 She's dead now. 585 00:43:44,847 --> 00:43:46,724 That was it. 586 00:43:49,643 --> 00:43:52,980 What did Conway tell you about that day ? 587 00:43:53,064 --> 00:43:56,734 She was at Jill's mother's house. 588 00:43:56,818 --> 00:43:58,820 What did she say she was doing that day ? 589 00:43:58,903 --> 00:44:01,614 Rearranging her basement. 590 00:44:01,698 --> 00:44:05,327 Then she tells you that she believes your sister killed your mom ? 591 00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:07,204 Yeah. 592 00:44:08,789 --> 00:44:11,375 Do you feel like she's steering you ? 593 00:44:16,839 --> 00:44:18,841 When did you pick Ali up from school ? 594 00:44:18,924 --> 00:44:21,719 So she started nudging me at probably around 9:00... 595 00:44:21,886 --> 00:44:24,639 - Did she text you or did she call you ? - Text. 596 00:44:25,181 --> 00:44:28,977 - When did you pick her up ? - 10:00, 10:30 ? 597 00:44:31,229 --> 00:44:33,565 Okay, you go home. What do you see ? 598 00:44:33,857 --> 00:44:36,359 Your mom's car in the driveway. 599 00:44:38,278 --> 00:44:43,700 Alright, this is them showing up. And they're approaching. 600 00:44:44,368 --> 00:44:49,415 When you got there, what was your first sign that something was wrong ? 601 00:44:49,498 --> 00:44:54,837 The broken statue. We had a statue of a dog, a stone statue of a dog 602 00:44:54,921 --> 00:44:58,341 that had a basket in its mouth, that statue was always there. 603 00:44:58,424 --> 00:45:01,052 And it was broken. It was knocked over and broken. 604 00:45:01,803 --> 00:45:03,888 They're yelling my mom's name... 605 00:45:03,972 --> 00:45:08,685 We look everywhere. We come back outside. 606 00:45:09,227 --> 00:45:11,897 I went in the garage and come around the house. 607 00:45:14,775 --> 00:45:18,696 And then this is where Conway sees the cushions. 608 00:45:20,030 --> 00:45:23,910 She takes one cushion off, and takes another cushion off. 609 00:45:23,993 --> 00:45:26,037 I'm like, throwing the fucking cushions off, 610 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,082 cause I'm thinking maybe there's some hope. You know what I mean ? 611 00:45:29,165 --> 00:45:31,543 Like, I'm throwing them off now. 612 00:45:34,462 --> 00:45:37,215 Were you afraid after ? 613 00:45:37,299 --> 00:45:42,846 For years I carried a hammer, under the front seat of my car. 614 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,265 Why a hammer ? 615 00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:48,477 Because I think that's what killed your mother. 616 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:56,068 And I think I could hit with a hammer. I don't think I could stab with a knife. 617 00:46:04,452 --> 00:46:07,664 - Did you kill my mom ? - No. 618 00:46:08,874 --> 00:46:11,460 I protected your mom 619 00:46:12,044 --> 00:46:15,964 her whole life, as best I could. 620 00:46:21,971 --> 00:46:24,056 I miss her. 621 00:46:25,266 --> 00:46:28,102 All of the time. 622 00:46:28,895 --> 00:46:31,523 I know you do too. 623 00:46:38,488 --> 00:46:40,741 What a nightmare. 624 00:46:43,827 --> 00:46:46,246 - Thank you so much. - Yeah, you're so welcome. 625 00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:48,624 Must be weird to go in that house again. 626 00:46:48,707 --> 00:46:51,377 - Yeah. - I'm actually a grief worker. 627 00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:53,087 - Really ? - I'm a therapist. 628 00:46:53,170 --> 00:46:56,382 - My god. - And I work in bereavement. 629 00:46:56,465 --> 00:47:00,053 - What are the chances of that ? - I know, right ? 630 00:47:00,136 --> 00:47:03,389 Yeah, I lost my mom about 15 years ago... 631 00:47:03,473 --> 00:47:05,016 I'm so sorry. 632 00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,144 It was traumatic in a different way. She actually took her life. 633 00:47:08,228 --> 00:47:10,689 so there was the same thing of an unsolved sort of... 634 00:47:10,772 --> 00:47:14,985 Was there any step that you took that you felt was really helpful ? 635 00:47:15,068 --> 00:47:17,363 One of the things that I felt like was very healing 636 00:47:17,446 --> 00:47:19,740 was we retook some of the steps that she took. 637 00:47:19,823 --> 00:47:22,827 So I feel like this is the process you're in, right ? 638 00:47:22,910 --> 00:47:26,956 It's a formidable journey but I feel like it's very healing. 639 00:47:28,249 --> 00:47:31,252 Do you mind if I spend, like, a couple minutes in my old room ? 640 00:47:31,336 --> 00:47:33,630 - No, is it this corner room ? - Yeah. 641 00:47:33,713 --> 00:47:36,758 That's great, that's my son's room. That's awesome. 642 00:47:46,643 --> 00:47:48,854 This was Ali's room. 643 00:47:54,235 --> 00:47:56,988 Mom's bed was over here. 644 00:47:58,698 --> 00:48:01,451 She had her computer right here. 645 00:48:25,059 --> 00:48:28,229 It's definitely feeling more real, you know. 646 00:48:28,771 --> 00:48:31,774 - Yeah. - Being here. 647 00:48:31,858 --> 00:48:38,198 I can, like, see where furniture was, and... 648 00:48:38,281 --> 00:48:41,701 - There's a lot of good memories here. - Yeah. 649 00:48:41,785 --> 00:48:46,456 And maybe not outside the house. But, you know. 650 00:48:46,540 --> 00:48:49,001 Yeah, right. 651 00:48:49,626 --> 00:48:53,923 This is wild. It's like this event, 652 00:48:54,006 --> 00:48:57,635 and then my life just completely changed. 653 00:48:58,010 --> 00:49:02,807 There's a lot of guilt, you know, I've you know harbored, from all of this. 654 00:49:02,890 --> 00:49:05,643 - Because you weren't there. - Yeah. 655 00:49:06,102 --> 00:49:09,648 And I was a teenager, and making bad decisions. 656 00:49:10,232 --> 00:49:12,692 I mean, I always feel like guilt and grief is just a way 657 00:49:12,776 --> 00:49:16,947 of trying to get the past back, wishing things had been differently. 658 00:49:17,448 --> 00:49:21,076 I remember, I was home for winter break at college, 659 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,747 and I'd shot like a short film from high school 660 00:49:24,830 --> 00:49:27,041 and showed it to her over winter break. 661 00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:32,588 But in it, the main character, like, commits suicide 662 00:49:33,298 --> 00:49:36,676 and she started crying, and I was like, "Why are you crying ?" 663 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,887 and she's like, 664 00:49:41,431 --> 00:49:44,351 "If I die," 665 00:49:46,186 --> 00:49:48,355 "would you be okay ?" 666 00:49:50,816 --> 00:49:54,278 And I was like, "I'm not gonna let that happen to you." 667 00:50:03,621 --> 00:50:05,665 I'm sorry. 668 00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:20,472 Thank you so much. 669 00:50:29,941 --> 00:50:32,193 - Are you exhausted ? - I am exhausted. 670 00:50:32,276 --> 00:50:34,195 Yeah. We both are. 671 00:50:35,154 --> 00:50:41,328 I think that that's a problem when our emotions are right on the edge. 672 00:50:41,411 --> 00:50:42,537 Yeah. 673 00:50:42,621 --> 00:50:45,832 And sometimes they come for us and sometimes I think, 674 00:50:45,916 --> 00:50:50,796 I don't feel anything, you know ? I'm like numb. 675 00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:57,428 Because any time you go over things, the only issue we all have 676 00:50:57,511 --> 00:50:59,430 is trying to solve it. 677 00:50:59,513 --> 00:51:02,600 - Yeah. - Trying to figure it out. 678 00:51:03,601 --> 00:51:08,565 I don't know that finding the person who committed the murder 679 00:51:08,648 --> 00:51:11,651 is what I need. 680 00:51:11,735 --> 00:51:14,613 - Well, you need your mother back. - Yeah. 681 00:51:15,989 --> 00:51:18,450 Nothing is gonna bring Mom back. 682 00:51:18,534 --> 00:51:24,206 My daughter is gone forever, and it's just never gonna happen. 683 00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:29,545 And we'll never... You just don't ever get over it, Maddie. 684 00:51:29,629 --> 00:51:33,049 I don't know what it's like for you. 685 00:51:33,132 --> 00:51:38,263 Grief is something that's very personal, 686 00:51:38,346 --> 00:51:41,099 and don't ever let anybody tell you how to grieve. 687 00:51:41,516 --> 00:51:44,561 We're all different, you know. 688 00:51:46,647 --> 00:51:50,317 - How did you feel directly after ? - Horrible. 689 00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:54,822 They had taken the most important person from my life. 690 00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:59,702 Horrible. 691 00:52:01,954 --> 00:52:06,709 How has it affected our family ? Trust and... 692 00:52:06,793 --> 00:52:09,671 Hey there, Happy Thanksgiving, I love you guys. 693 00:52:09,754 --> 00:52:12,883 I feel like there are a lot of people that probably don't trust me, 694 00:52:12,966 --> 00:52:15,510 for their own reasons. 695 00:52:16,094 --> 00:52:20,974 I do feel like there is a rift in our family, because of the murder. 696 00:52:31,903 --> 00:52:35,823 I may second guess who I think it is, at this point... 697 00:52:35,907 --> 00:52:39,869 But when I'm at the crime scene, with your sister, 698 00:52:39,953 --> 00:52:45,000 it makes it very difficult to second guess, at the same time. 699 00:52:46,001 --> 00:52:48,670 What would you want, if that were the case ? 700 00:52:48,754 --> 00:52:50,380 - If it were Ali ? - Yeah. 701 00:52:50,464 --> 00:52:52,383 If it were Ali, I would want justice. 702 00:52:52,466 --> 00:52:56,929 - What do you think my mom would want ? - If it's Ali, nothing. 703 00:53:00,141 --> 00:53:04,645 She would want me to love her and take care of her, like I did, 704 00:53:05,438 --> 00:53:09,317 and to let go of my resentment, that's what your mom would want. 705 00:53:13,655 --> 00:53:17,784 And it's hard, and I love her, and I can't even look at her anymore. 706 00:53:17,868 --> 00:53:21,538 She looks too much like your mom, I just can't look at her. 707 00:53:23,332 --> 00:53:25,918 I have to look away. 708 00:53:27,962 --> 00:53:29,463 - I'm sorry. - It's okay. 709 00:53:43,687 --> 00:53:46,481 - How's it going ? - Good, how are you ? 710 00:53:50,152 --> 00:53:52,404 Welcome back to Madison. 711 00:53:56,283 --> 00:53:59,620 When's the last time you were in Madison ? 712 00:53:59,912 --> 00:54:02,248 When I was 18. 713 00:54:04,083 --> 00:54:07,920 When I left Madison, I haven't been back since I left the States. 714 00:54:09,672 --> 00:54:13,760 - Wilbys. - Wilbys is still here. 715 00:54:21,351 --> 00:54:24,480 When you were living with Dad, 716 00:54:24,563 --> 00:54:27,066 and I was here on Neck Road with Mom, 717 00:54:27,149 --> 00:54:31,028 I'm sure that's tough for you to think about. 718 00:54:33,447 --> 00:54:37,618 I just want you to know that I don't hold anything against you for all that, 719 00:54:37,702 --> 00:54:41,956 because I know that you were young 720 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,793 and going through a lot. 721 00:54:45,252 --> 00:54:50,007 It's amazing how much you have grown 722 00:54:50,090 --> 00:54:54,511 after something so horrible, and being in such a tough spot. 723 00:54:54,595 --> 00:54:58,432 You're beautiful, and smart, and... 724 00:55:01,894 --> 00:55:04,438 I'm just proud to be your brother. 725 00:55:04,522 --> 00:55:08,943 Thank you, Mad, you're gonna make me cry. I'm proud to be your sister. 726 00:55:13,865 --> 00:55:18,453 I feel like when a tragedy happens you have a decision. 727 00:55:18,537 --> 00:55:20,914 You can either stay in it and dwell, 728 00:55:20,998 --> 00:55:25,085 or you can make something beautiful out of it. 729 00:55:26,045 --> 00:55:29,423 What do you tell your friends when they ask about it ? 730 00:55:29,507 --> 00:55:31,926 I'm not ashamed, it's my story. 731 00:55:32,009 --> 00:55:36,431 I lost my mom and I don't have a relationship with my dad. 732 00:55:37,140 --> 00:55:43,480 I don't harbor any hatred or negativity towards him, 733 00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:46,566 because I've done a lot of work on myself, 734 00:55:46,650 --> 00:55:50,570 and I know that that only hurts me, 735 00:55:50,654 --> 00:55:54,366 so I honestly feel sorry for him. 736 00:55:58,037 --> 00:56:00,790 You feel far from home ? 737 00:56:02,541 --> 00:56:05,753 It's hardest for me to be away from you. 738 00:56:11,259 --> 00:56:14,387 I know. It's okay. 739 00:56:16,014 --> 00:56:18,475 We're together now. 740 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,861 One day, when this comes out, 741 00:56:28,944 --> 00:56:33,658 if the person is alive who did this to Mom, 742 00:56:34,784 --> 00:56:38,955 there's a good chance they'll see this documentary. 743 00:56:39,038 --> 00:56:42,166 Would you wanna say anything to that person ? 744 00:56:42,250 --> 00:56:46,129 I don't need to say anything to them, you know ? 745 00:56:46,212 --> 00:56:51,593 I feel like they'll see the pain that they've caused. 746 00:56:53,387 --> 00:56:56,473 Do you want to say anything to them ? 747 00:57:00,978 --> 00:57:04,440 I'm coming for you, that's what I'd say to them.