1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,160 A very unusual case from the world of large corporations... 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 For the best IPTV provider, please visit: WWW.IPTV.CAT For the best IPTV provider, please visit: WWW.IPTV.CAT.BZ 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:12,040 Today, we are bringing charges in a comprehensive and serious harassment case. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 For the best IPTV provider, please visit: WWW.IPTV.CAT For the best IPTV provider, please visit: WWW.IPTV.CAT.BZ 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,200 Shocking accusations against former eBay employees. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,560 -Bizarre stalking via the internet. -Who comes up with that?! 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,680 Four other former eBay employees is charged with complicity. 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,440 It was unlikely that the matter should be so great, - 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,120 - but I thought: "If this is true…damn!" 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:40,280 When you first hear about this, you don't think it's true. 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,960 Do you accept responsibility? Should eBay be held liable? 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,600 As a director, shouldn't you know about that? 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:55,240 They left a lot of traces behind. Evidence in abundance. 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,360 Drop it! Drop it, you bastard! 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,480 He pushed me to do things I will regret it for the rest of my life. 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,680 AT ANY PRICE The eBay scandal 17 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,600 Norwegian texts: Bjørn Meyer 18 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,960 These are our security cameras. 19 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,920 I work on the side. If I hear something happening on the street, - 20 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,560 - I don't have to open the blinds. I'm just looking in here. 21 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:11,120 It began as an ordinary day in August. I got a Twitter message. 22 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,320 “Ina, what do you have against eBay? That's where we earn our rent." 23 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:22,760 It was funny. Looked like it came from an eBay seller who disliked my mention of the industry. 24 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,600 My husband and I drive the online magazine EcommerceBytes. 25 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,440 We have a small reader base. 26 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:39,040 It is an industry website with advice to become a more effective salesperson. 27 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:47,960 The message came from "Tui Elei". We used a lot of time to find out if the name meant anything. 28 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Who was this and why they did this. 29 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,120 "HELLO!!!" 30 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,080 "You're there, aren't you?" 31 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,480 "Don't like to wait." 32 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,960 Who was this? I had no idea. 33 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,680 "What do you have to do before you answer?" 34 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,040 "Guess I'll have to come up with something else to get a response." 35 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,920 I didn't answer. 36 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:23,200 The next day was my email full of spam. 37 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,080 Dozens of newsletter subscriptions. 38 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Strong sexual content. Bondage and sadomasochism. 39 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:49,040 So I am facing a disturbed person who has time to keep it up. 40 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,680 The next message said: "Don't you have the balls to talk to me?" 41 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,000 "Stop hiding behind your PC, you fucking cunt!" 42 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,840 -And then we got a call... -Message to David Steiner: 43 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,880 You ordered a wet preparation, but your credit card was declined. 44 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,320 - I had no idea what a wet preparation was. -So we asked her, and she answered: 45 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,560 "A pig fetus." 46 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,920 "ARE YOU COMING NOW?" 47 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:31,840 This person had moved on from threats online to send packages to my home. 48 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,800 We became absolutely desperate for it to find out who was behind it. 49 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,720 We contacted the police. 50 00:04:53,960 --> 00:05:01,040 He came in and we tried to explain soberly what had happened. 51 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,480 Then he would go again. 52 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:11,880 There is a package here. You know, I've been waiting here for so long. 53 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,000 Someone has probably sent you a T-shirt. 54 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:27,640 I gave it to Ina, while me and the policeman talked outside the door. 55 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:38,320 When I opened it, I saw somewhat skin-colored and hairy. 56 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,440 It was a pig mask with brand from the movie Saw. 57 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,960 "Did you get the presents from me, you cunt?!" 58 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,960 An unknown person had sent us a threat. 59 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,760 We started documenting everything. 60 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,120 Who would bother with this? It didn't stick. 61 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,440 The next package was addressed to me. 62 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,560 I was cold inside. Her life could be in danger. 63 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,640 SURVIVING THE LOSS OF A SPOUSE 64 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,080 It was an abrupt transition from concern to horror. 65 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,640 How to end this, and find out who is behind it? 66 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,400 Amazon explained that the order came from someone in Ukraine. 67 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:46,200 I wondered who could know how it could be done. 68 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,760 Who knew it existed a service in Ukraine that does such? 69 00:06:54,640 --> 00:07:01,040 John Haswell, police detective We were constantly called for such events. 70 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,560 Our patrol officers wondered what wrong they had done. 71 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,920 Something happened every day. 72 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,160 A package labeled "Carolina" was put outside the door. 73 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,960 I looked up the company name. 74 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,000 And then I said, "David, don't touch it." 75 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,040 It was full of spiders and caterpillars. Soon after, the postman arrived. 76 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,280 -Can you put it on the ground? - It's expensive. 77 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,960 There were cockroaches. Alive. 78 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,640 The questions loom: Who is doing this, and why? You become crazy. 79 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,040 We were completely terrified. Afraid of people who spoke to us in the store. 80 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:52,000 One of the neighbors came and said they had received a package for David, but with their address. 81 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,920 There were porn magazines with barely legal girls. 82 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,720 “Your fat man must get behave yourself, you fucking cunt." 83 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,200 "When he gets the dildo out of his ass say!" 84 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,680 Sometimes I wondered if I could take it to continue sitting at the PC. 85 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,160 Week after week I saw them mentioned in our reports. 86 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,840 - Don't bring it inside. - Fine. 87 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,840 There wasn't much I could do. 88 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,520 Jason Sutherland, First Officer I assumed it was youths - 89 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,680 - or someone with a horn in their side. 90 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,960 Hello? 91 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,800 The next day a funeral wreath arrived. 92 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,640 The courier said he had been notified about delivering it to the back door. 93 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:46,600 So we would spot it when we got out, and wonder how it ended up there. 94 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,880 For me, it reinforced the fear of that the book was a message. 95 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,960 "You're going to lose your wife." 96 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:02,000 It is usually me who arranges things of the two of us. But I couldn't do this. 97 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,480 Eventually, their fear was contagious almost over me. 98 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,120 I got worried too. How would I clear this up? 99 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,400 I had no idea. Just gathered all the information I could find. 100 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:24,240 I knew they had a website, EcommerceBytes.com. 101 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:31,120 I had never looked at it, so I entered and looked at what it was about. 102 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:42,160 Ina Steiner writes about online shopping. She established herself writing about eBay. 103 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:47,800 She accompanies them when they have technical problems. When they change their rates. 104 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:54,360 Spencer Soper, journalist, Bloomberg It is interesting for the seller community on eBay. 105 00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:00,280 She and her husband have built up their website writing about eBay for 25 years. 106 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,440 Ina and I met during my studies. 107 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:13,600 When we were done, we saved all we could, and finally bought this house. 108 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,840 - It was a real renovation object. - We did everything ourselves. 109 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,320 I worked for the publishers of a newsletter, - 110 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,480 - The Cyber Skeptic's Guide two Internet Research. 111 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,400 So I had always known about the internet. 112 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,840 I worked as a TV producer, and I had a video recorder - 113 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,120 - as I had thought to try to get sold. 114 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,400 Ina had heard about a website called eBay. 115 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,520 So I posted an ad. 116 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:04,320 Someone bought it for $4,000. It went completely smoothly. 117 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:10,560 I thought, "When this went so well, What more can we accomplish?" 118 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,280 This was in eBay's infancy. 119 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,480 Access to a worldwide market has made eBay popular. 120 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,920 Adam Cohen, author eBay was part of something new: the internet. 121 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:30,680 Describe the item, add a digital image, and set a starting price. 122 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,320 At the time it was not easy to sell something on eBay. 123 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,680 Show an orderly selection of products, get pictures taken... 124 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,880 We realized that we could help people. 125 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:50,240 So we started publishing a newsletter we first called AuctionBytes. 126 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:58,880 It was about things like lighting. Packaging and safe shipping. 127 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:06,800 Then I started looking at news about eBay which were important to the sellers. 128 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,960 And we started making a news program. 129 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:21,800 It was a plague trying to make money on the internet. We were infected. 130 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,320 My name is Ina Steiner, this is AuctionBytes. 131 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,280 We are at Buy Safe, a seller organised event in Las Vegas. 132 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,200 Let's talk to people here. 133 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:41,320 Hani Durzy, former communications director They were well known. Many in eBay followed them. 134 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:47,560 - I've heard of you! I'm ScenicCat. - So great! Are you a seller on eBay? 135 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,760 -Are you going to the eBay event? -Yes. 136 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:57,880 I started in January. Then I heard about this, and I love Vegas, so I went here. 137 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,800 Meeting the sellers was so much fun. 138 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,560 -What is your username? -RoosterDoinChick. 139 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:10,280 Most of the people we met had started to use eBay as the main income. 140 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,880 I stand here with Brenda, aka DivasAttic. 141 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:20,680 We were hooked on the idea of a news channel for small businesses. It completely took over. 142 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,720 We sell things on eBay every day. 143 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,080 We developed a division of labour. 144 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,880 Can you stand here? Are you doing well? 145 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,080 - Tell me how far back I have to go. - Over there. Fine. 146 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,720 David is very kind and good, with a strong protective instinct. 147 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Being married is great. 148 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:50,440 But to discover that we could too working together was a gift. 149 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:53,600 We had such a good time. 150 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Whoever had written messages to me, started posting on Twitter. 151 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,000 “Your idiot comments scares people away from eBay!" 152 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:19,000 Obviously someone was depending on income from eBay. 153 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,160 Could it be a reader had we offended in any way? 154 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:31,160 At least they said they didn't want to see us post online more. And I didn't know why. 155 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,960 We were going to install a new camera in the window above. 156 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:47,040 We had surveillance cameras, but wanted more. 157 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,920 David stood outside on the ladder, and I gave him tools through the window. 158 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,680 The street was quiet, a calm August day. 159 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:02,000 On the camera screen I see a van with New York registration. 160 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,200 I told David. "Black van. New York plates." 161 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,480 Totally on instinct. We were so on edge. 162 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:17,520 Later that day I was out in the garden when I heard a car outside the fence. 163 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,640 I looked up and saw a black van with New York signs. 164 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,600 That afternoon I was going out for a walk. 165 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:39,240 On the way out of the driveway I saw at the far end of the road. 166 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,280 The same van was idling there. 167 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:50,720 I saw him drive out, and soon after followed the black van. 168 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,440 They followed me wherever I turned. 169 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,880 -911. What does it apply to? - My husband's car is being shadowed. 170 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,400 A van with New York registration. 171 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:17,920 - They drove after him? Did they say anything to him? -Yes! I don't know. Probably! 172 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,200 -Who is pursuing him? - We don't know that. 173 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,960 That was the first time we realized that they were outside our house. 174 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,360 -I was shadowed. -I saw it! 175 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,800 - I remember we sat down in the living room. - He was pale, in a cold sweat and nauseous. 176 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:48,240 - She asked if I wanted to go to the hospital. - I thought he had had a heart attack. 177 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,040 No, I said. I wanted us to be together. 178 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,680 We filled a shopping cart with griddles and pushed it close to the door. 179 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,880 So if someone got in, At least we wanted to hear it. 180 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:11,320 We put golf clubs by the door. Everything to make us feel safer. 181 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:19,920 Every day, when it started to get dark at sunset, - 182 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,640 - we felt very alone. 183 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:30,000 The thought was: "Now we may die." I've never had that feeling before. 184 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:40,480 Ina and I started sleeping separately. I slept where I could see the surveillance system. 185 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,320 At half past five in the morning I heard a car. 186 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,920 I just followed along on what he did. 187 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,440 Hey, you! 188 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,200 The police are on their way. We have pictures of you. 189 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:43,440 Put it down. Drop it. Drop it, you bastard! 190 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,880 I heard David yell, "Drop it!" 191 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:54,080 I only saw a long, black suitcase. There and then I thought it must contain a gun. 192 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:06,040 Who ordered that pizza? Stay standing! Who do you deliver for? 193 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:15,520 Hello! Who do you deliver for! I have video images of you. Speak up or you'll get in trouble! 194 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:21,360 When he had just been shadowed… It was so vicious. 195 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,480 I can't describe how hard it sits. 196 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,280 And it happened again and again. 197 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,760 No, we haven't ordered any pizza. 198 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,720 "Is this your address?" 199 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,960 They posted my address publicly. 200 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,080 Now there were also messages from someone who called himself "Top Seller". 201 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,920 Are you having a moving sale? Someone called me and said that… 202 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:02,400 It was announced that we were having a garage sale... 203 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,880 - We don't have garage sales. -Not that? 204 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,720 They posted ads on websites… 205 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:17,120 They advertised swingers parties with us. BDSM orgies. 206 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:23,240 We were certainly open to anything. It was just a matter of knocking. 207 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,920 It was a Sunday, in the morning. It was about eleven o'clock. 208 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,720 I was going for a quick trip to the store. 209 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:43,440 At the far end of the street it stood a silver SUV idling. 210 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:51,160 I called Ina and said I wanted to park outside the police station. 211 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,840 I told her to call 911 and make them meet me. 212 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,560 -911. What does it apply to? - My husband ... We are being stalked. 213 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:09,200 He drives a red Toyota RAV4. Look for it. He is shadowed by another car. 214 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:17,360 I parked outside the police station. People were on their way to church. 215 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,440 I had Ina's mobile phone. My hands were shaking. 216 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,840 I tried to get the camera up so I could take pictures of what they were doing. 217 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,160 Then I saw the car coming back over the hilltop. 218 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:38,520 They drove slowly past me. I propped the camera against the steering wheel - 219 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,960 - and took a quick series of pictures. 220 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,360 911. What is it about? 221 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,160 Can you check the registration and alert their patrols? 222 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,040 9PJ**3. A silver GMC Envoy. 223 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,640 - What has it done? - We are being stalked. It shadowed him. 224 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,920 And if you... You procrastinated on Friday, when someone did this! 225 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,520 They must not escape again! This is serious! 226 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:21,080 When they noted the registration, it came loose. 227 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:28,920 These people left a lot of traces after him. Evidence in abundance. 228 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,400 It led right to them. 229 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:38,040 We looked up the license plate. It was a rental car. 230 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:44,160 I called the rental company. They said the car was rented out in Boston. 231 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,240 “But they didn't pick it up. We drove it to the Ritz-Carlton hotel." 232 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:54,240 "So?" I said. “May I speak with the person who delivered the car?" 233 00:22:54,360 --> 00:23:01,000 I got to speak to another employee who was there and arranged the lease. 234 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:06,960 He had a tablet with him to scan the tenant's credit card with. 235 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,640 The card read Veronica Zea. 236 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,280 I searched for Veronica Zea and found her LinkedIn profile. 237 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,640 It showed that she worked for eBay. 238 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:31,440 It was strange. No explanation, but something to follow. 239 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:37,400 We knew where the funeral wreath came from a flower shop in Cambridge. 240 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,320 I called them and got the credit card number. 241 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,480 I traced it to a bank, Meta Bank, and contacted them. 242 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,240 They said it was a Blackhawk gift card, so I contacted them. 243 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,760 The card had been sold at a Safeway store in San José. 244 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,600 There are four such stores, and one is only about a mile from eBay. 245 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:10,200 I called it and they said they had just sold five gift cards that day. 246 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:17,200 They checked their surveillance footage, and found a lady who had bought two gift cards. 247 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:23,400 A little over a mile from eBay's headquarters, and an eBay employee who purchased the gift cards. 248 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,960 Things fell into place. They didn't see ghosts. The cars were real. The packages too. 249 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:39,520 These were not finishers who ordered nonsense pizza at night. This was serious. 250 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,160 Veronica Zea, eBay employee, had driven past. 251 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:49,440 Nothing that connected her to the pig mask and the funeral wreath, - 252 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:56,200 - but Detective Haswell also found the name to David Harville, also employed by eBay. 253 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:02,200 -Harville had also rented a car. - So we had at least two people involved. 254 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,920 Then I called the Steiners. 255 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,600 He said, “Do you know the name Veronica Zea?" No. 256 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:17,040 They also mentioned David Harville. "They work for eBay." 257 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,680 We were completely put out. Then we got angry. But also scared. 258 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:35,080 We searched and looked up their LinkedIn profiles, and got to see where in eBay they worked: 259 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:41,160 "Department of Security and Robustness". My God, what is this?! 260 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:51,560 It wasn't much we could accomplish here in Natick. 261 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:57,200 So I contacted the FBI's unit for computer crime. 262 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,800 I said at once: "There is something underneath." 263 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,240 Robert DiSalvatore, former detective The contents of the packages were sick. 264 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:11,880 Amy Burkart, former asst. public prosecutor It seemed unlikely that the case was so big. 265 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,640 "But if this is true…damn!" 266 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,040 Andrew Lelling, former Attorney General Amy brought up a new matter. 267 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:25,200 "It will either be the best of all time or a boom shot", she said. 268 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:31,120 We met with the FBI and told them that all we knew, - 269 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,960 - was that we were terrorized, - 270 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:41,080 - that eBay was involved in one or otherwise, and we didn't know why. 271 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,600 Not many were able to make money on the internet before eBay appeared. 272 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:05,840 Software developer Pierre Omidyar is the father of eBay. Good morning, and congratulations! 273 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:12,920 This was a hobby project. When did you realize that could it be operated commercially on a large scale? 274 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:19,120 I founded eBay three years ago. In the course of nine months the money began to come, - 275 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,520 - and I realized that it could become a business. 276 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:32,200 Pierre was a programmer in Silicon Valley. Sandals and ponytail. The whole package. 277 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,240 He had an idealistic vision of to do internet - 278 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,120 Adam Cohen, author - to an equal marketplace for everyone. 279 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,000 Where everyone could trade with everyone on an equal footing. 280 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,720 My friend Pierre told about his idea - 281 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,800 Jeff Skoll, CEO of eBay, 1996-2001 - about an online marketplace. 282 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,320 He just had a loose idea, and asked people what they thought of it. 283 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:08,320 Everyone said, "It won't work." The fear of socializing with strangers online was big then. 284 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:15,240 600 million visits per month, that's a lot of people! How do you stop the dishonest ones? 285 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:22,120 The company is founded on the fact that most people want people well. If you assume that, you will rarely be disappointed. 286 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:33,200 That philosophy became a very important part of success. 287 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,400 It required a great deal of trust. And it worked. 288 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,920 Aloha! Come in. 289 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,960 A group that became important early on, were the collecting circles. 290 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,280 This is where I store things I own and collects. 291 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:02,040 I deal in moving sales, divorces, mortgage auctions and estates. 292 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,560 I discovered eBay and said: "Oi! Now they do this on the internet!" 293 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,320 In 1998 I published 100 objects for sale a month, or more. 294 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,840 I don't have enough space. The second bedroom is full of Elvis stuff. 295 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,720 Books. Plates. Souvenirs. The journal from his dentist in Palm Springs. 296 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Not everyone has x-rays of the teeth of The King! 297 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,320 I couldn't find anything about Elvis on eBay. 298 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,200 I told Jeff and Pierre that I had contacts in the Elvis community. "Drive on!" they said. 299 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:50,720 Water from his swimming pool. I had a bottle with, and a quart of water from there. 300 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:04,200 Many of these are the original The Barbie doll. Look, how many I have! 301 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,000 Collectors are looking for the right suit. 302 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,720 In the 90s, the Star Trek collectors began to discover eBay. 303 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,160 My daughter and I bought and sold figurines. These are signed by the actors. 304 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:27,920 And we chatted with people in the eBay chat rooms. 305 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:34,200 Every morning someone started a conversation thread with a sunrise emoji. 306 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,800 And the conversations went on throughout the day. 307 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,200 People visited the forums just to help each other. 308 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,920 It was Pierre's project. A kind of Garden of Eden - 309 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,560 - where everyone was received as idealistic contributors. 310 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,720 And the idealism showed to be very profitable. 311 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,960 In the end it got so big that you could see the need for an experienced director. 312 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,600 We saw opportunities to go public fairly quickly. 313 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,240 Meg Whitman streamlined the company. Then she went to investors and said: 314 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:26,960 "You see us as a flea market, but look on the numbers." The profit margin was 85%. 315 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,840 First, second, third time, sold! This is how eBay shares have fared. 316 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,120 When eBay went public, shot the course into the air. 317 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,120 Jeff Skoll, 34 years old. Net worth: $2.5 billion. 318 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,440 Pierre was 32 years old and had 4 billion dollars in assets. 319 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:53,320 We were among many who pointed out that e-commerce was about to take off. 320 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:59,160 At the weekend, 4,400 people meet to "eBay Live" in Anaheim, California. 321 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,560 This year's theme is: "You are our star." 322 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,080 eBay has become one of the great internet successes, - 323 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,720 - with around 200 million users worldwide. 324 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,920 - I sell pianos and organs. -A lot of property. I have sold three schools. 325 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,680 I have sold 220,000 posters and earned 12 million dollars. 326 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:31,320 It was a hobby that became a livelihood. barbie- the dolls paid for my daughter's studies. 327 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:38,120 -You can bid on everything from dolls to VW bubbles. -If it doesn't exist on eBay, it doesn't exist. 328 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,280 "Things we found on eBay"! 329 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,480 -eBay became public property. -Obama's face on a piece of toast! 330 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,920 The company grew from 170 employees to about 15,000. 331 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:58,000 We established a subsidiary in Germany. And then in China. 332 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,000 We acquired other companies. 333 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:07,360 An enterprise worth 11 billion dollars, with 2 million user profiles. 334 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:18,520 We are concerned with what becomes possible when people from all over the world can find each other and socialize. 335 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,040 We believe this can improve the world. 336 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:29,280 It was a good period for everyone. Did it go well for eBay and the sellers, we did well too. 337 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:35,120 I'm Ina Steiner from AuctionBytes. We have with us eBay director Meg Whitman. 338 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,560 - Welcome. - A pleasure. So glad you came to eBay Live. 339 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:45,920 You have talked about unfortunate postings on eBay. Is it still a problem? 340 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:51,680 We would like to have more auctions on eBay. And people think it's fun. 341 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,800 Such access to senior management we got until 2007. 342 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:03,640 Everyone was well satisfied. But in 2008 the relationship soured. 343 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:11,680 To me it felt like they did that the "flea market image" of eBay was embarrassing. 344 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,040 By the time we got to 2008, the tone had changed. 345 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,240 Gradually, Pierre and Jeff stopped to come to work on a daily basis. 346 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,400 The old corporate culture faded away. 347 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,840 Amazon had really taken off, and investors pressured eBay - 348 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,040 - to achieve even greater profits. 349 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,640 With shareholders, everything suddenly becomes different. 350 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,960 They demand positive quarterly results. Then you have to take care of them too. 351 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,280 eBay Enterprise leads over 500 of the world's biggest brands, - 352 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,200 - such as Levi's, Mattel and Sony. 353 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:02,400 The sellers experienced a number of changes. It was so devastating. 354 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,960 We have a blog where readers can post comments. 355 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,040 Eager commitment turned to anger. 356 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:19,560 They turned their backs on the sales community and would only take Walmart and Disney. 357 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,600 "You were good at helping us up, but now we are finished with you." 358 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:33,360 Hani Durzy, former Head of Communications, eBay EcommerceBytes became the voice of veteran users. 359 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,440 Not everyone in senior management looked favorably on it. 360 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,640 It was a noticeable shift in how they viewed EcommerceBytes. 361 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,040 In 2008, the PR team came to Ina and said: 362 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,120 “We are not going to respond to their questions continually." 363 00:35:55,240 --> 00:36:02,120 “You keep asking questions questions, you won't get any more interviews." 364 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,240 Ina continued to ask, and she didn't get any more interviews. 365 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:15,240 They probably thought I would disappear if they did shut me out. But I continued to write. 366 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,880 18% decrease from last year for eBay Marketplaces 367 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:26,040 Spencer Soper, journalist, Bloomberg eBay had become a falling star. 368 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,720 They lost customers and market share. 369 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:37,160 In 2014, Wall Street forced investors them to separate PayPal. 370 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,800 eBay separates PayPal as a separate company. 371 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,680 PayPal has an annual growth of around 19%. This probably benefits them more than eBay. 372 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,680 "eBay has taken a real beating. We're letting that business go." 373 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,880 That's when they hired Devin Wenig as managing director. 374 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,920 We will talk a little about the future. That is the most important thing. 375 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,320 His task is to say: "Come on, now we're resurrecting eBay." 376 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,280 This started with people like us. They wanted to create opportunities with technology. 377 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,200 Pierre believed, and we still do, that an open marketplace - 378 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,120 - requires believing in people, and that people will. 379 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,480 New director will take the eBay brand forward 380 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,680 Many were nervous and felt insecure. 381 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,720 I had tried to contact eBay's PR team with various questions. 382 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,400 But they ignored me. Didn't want to answer. 383 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,840 The FBI's investigative division in Boston 384 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:02,440 An investigation begins i.a. with to scrutinize the suspects' background. 385 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:10,480 We knew Veronica Zea and David Harville, and that they worked in eBay's security department. 386 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:19,160 We obtained printouts of mobile, e-mail, Their WhatsApp and Twitter accounts. 387 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:26,920 What we saw gave us a clearer picture this team in the security department of eBay. 388 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:33,240 Andrew Lelling, former Attorney General eBay, like many others, has an internal unit - 389 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:40,240 - which handles security and external events which imposes risk on the company. 390 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,440 eBay had one group for protection of their physical facilities. 391 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,360 It was chaired by David Harville, Brian Gilbert and Phil Cooke. 392 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,760 The two were former chief officers from the Santa Clara Police Department. 393 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:03,720 Then there was the intelligence group, which gathered information about possible threats. 394 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:09,600 It consisted of Veronica Zea and Stephanie Stockwell, - 395 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:14,280 - and then there was Stephanie Popp, who led the group. 396 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,000 Not typical criminals. 397 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,480 Then we learned that both groups was under Jim Baugh. 398 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,440 He was the head of the department for robustness and intelligence. 399 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,840 Then we knew all the people involved, so we flew to San Jose - 400 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,160 - to find out how this had gone to 401 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,840 I went with him to California for questioning. There I learned to like... 402 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,280 Now I'm saying it wrong... No, avocado toast! It was so good. 403 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,600 Until 2017 I was eBay's Chief Security Officer. 404 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,840 I was the one who hired Jim Baugh. 405 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,840 Jim Fussell, former head of security, eBay As head of the guard department. 406 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:16,440 Jim had worked for a number of large tech companies. 407 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,040 And some very famous people. 408 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,720 As a bodyguard or Secret Service agent. 409 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,760 He had had corresponding tasks for the CIA. 410 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,160 We had a new director, Devin Wenig. He had a different style. 411 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:43,560 Came from New York. Knew how to dress. Would keep a far more visible profile. 412 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:52,480 So I had to establish an equivalent security around him. 413 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,720 Jim very quickly found the tone with Devon. 414 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:02,400 Devin enjoyed it to have Jim in his entourage. 415 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:11,080 I was well pleased, because it let me concentrate on the other tasks. 416 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,000 EBAY SECURITY DEPARTMENT The operations center 417 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:22,000 The task of the security department is to protect people, facilities and assets - 418 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,920 Jessica Cooley, former analyst - by uncovering possible threats. 419 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,520 Nicole Alipio, former analyst We had screens on the wall. 420 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:38,880 If something happened – fire, earthquake or terror - did we know how many we had there. 421 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,840 Lemar Karimi, former analyst Then we could notify the regional office. 422 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:52,360 We set up a keyword search on Twitter. Were there messages in which eBay was mentioned - 423 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:58,560 - together with words such as "bomb" or "kill", we got them up. 424 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,640 We took all such seriously, for the safety of the employees. 425 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,800 There were six of us in three shifts, so we were a tight-knit group. 426 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,440 We had mutual respect, and we looked after each other. 427 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:25,960 Jim Fussell's car had "FUSSBUS" for registration, so we sometimes called him that. 428 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:34,000 My experience of Jim Baugh was that he is taciturn but efficient. 429 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:41,840 It was exactly what I wanted. So I put the operations center under him. 430 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,480 We thought it was funny when we got it Jim Baugh to immediate superior. 431 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:54,560 We sniffed his LinkedIn profile, as we nurse, and knew he was from Seattle. 432 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,880 He had worked in security at Amazon, was married and had two daughters. 433 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:06,360 I realized that he was a great man. Rumor said he had been in the CIA. 434 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:12,280 Not long after, Jim said we had to bring in Stephanie Popp. 435 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:20,360 She was introduced as the senior consultant who knew five languages. 436 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,360 She also had a background from Amazon. We noticed that. 437 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,640 There was more talk about the relationship between Stephanie and Jim - 438 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,360 - than about them as individuals. 439 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,920 The impression I got was that Jim had been her mentor. 440 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,760 But that changed at some point. 441 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,680 Once she mentioned that Baugh took her out at the weekend to buy a car. 442 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,920 I asked him that. She is a young, attractive woman. 443 00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:02,280 I said, “I am not suggesting that you did something wrong, but it doesn't look so good." 444 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,400 That's when he turned on me, let it be. 445 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,560 My gut feeling was that something wasn't right. 446 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:20,800 The team was fired, one by one, and Baugh brought in others. 447 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,640 Come on! 448 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,960 Come here, then. 449 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:51,040 I was looking for a job after my studies. 450 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:59,000 My only work experience was on berg-and- the roller coaster to a fairground here, when I was 20. 451 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:07,640 I applied to a staffing agency, and they said the job was with eBay. 452 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:19,880 First day at eBay I met Jim Fussell, who seemed pleasant and received me well. 453 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,240 There were about ten of us then in the operation center. 454 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:30,720 The others joked, "You're going to take the job away from us. That's why they hire so many new ones." 455 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,600 "Why would they?" I said. 456 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,960 Baugh built a kind of mystique around himself. 457 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:47,160 He had water bottles with him with CIA logo for top management. 458 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,520 Everyone could see that Devin was a little smitten with him. 459 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,520 And one day Baugh emailed me. 460 00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,760 Some thought I was a bad, incompetent manager, he wrote. 461 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:07,720 "The team doesn't respect you." It was pure slaughter. 462 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,160 I was completely put out. That's when I realized it. 463 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,960 A month later I was called up to one of the directors. 464 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:23,160 She said that to me. "The security department is going in a new direction." 465 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:29,960 And then she challenged me. "Do you really feel fit for the job?" 466 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,800 "You don't have a police background, military or intelligence." 467 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,720 It was crushing. In 13 years we had built a great team. 468 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,960 I felt at home there. But that was it. 469 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:52,560 When Jim Fussell was fired, it shook everyone. 470 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:58,760 Shortly after, Jim Baugh became presented as the new boss. 471 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:06,160 It was just as strange, we thought. Two months earlier he was just a bodyguard. 472 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,000 It seemed like a coup. They weeded out people they didn't like. 473 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,960 We were told, "Sorry, but we are going in a different direction." 474 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,680 -They had a form they wanted to push people into. -What kind of shape? 475 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,800 It was expected that people nodded and agreed. 476 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:35,280 And gave them what they were looking for. Without asking questions, as I did. 477 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:42,000 We were told that from now on we should be intelligence department. 478 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:47,200 And we got a new job title: "intelligence analyst". 479 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:52,600 Then after a month and a half in the job I got a completely new role. 480 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,840 The workload was stepped up. 481 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:07,920 We were given reports to write, to see if we were familiar with the situation in the world. 482 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,200 He kept surprising us with tests like, "What is the name of the leader in Syria?" 483 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:22,560 Jim believed he was building an elite team. We were going to "change the landscape in which we operated". 484 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:31,120 When we sent out notice, the goal was to be faster than CNN. 485 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:37,720 But if we made so much as a comma error, we got packaging. 486 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:49,880 More and more were fired. It came an email, and then it was thank you and goodbye. 487 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,480 We spend billions of dollars. People die for this. 488 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,200 But we're getting nowhere to defeat the enemy. 489 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:08,200 -Jim showed us film clips. -He played a clip from Zero Dark Thirty. 490 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,640 What the hell have we done with it?! 491 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:14,600 What have we done! 492 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:20,000 I wondered terribly. We were eBay, not some CIA operation. 493 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:25,240 - Are you planning to smoke it there? - No, you should. Not that? 494 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:32,560 And from Training Day, where Denzel Washington makes Ethan Hawke smoke crack. 495 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,120 And then he says: "Now I have something for you." 496 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,800 We could watch such clips and analyze them for hours. 497 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,200 Now that you have found out, are you into what I call - 498 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,560 - The Byrnes family circle of trust. I hide nothing from you, - 499 00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,360 - and not you for me. This is how it goes round and round. 500 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,720 When he had something secret to say, he began by saying "circle of trust". 501 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,480 And then he came along a secret about someone. 502 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:17,200 We were kept on our toes. Once someone pretended a "confidential" document is left open, - 503 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,160 - Jim clicked at an angle. 504 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,680 He got a security guard, ex-policeman, - 505 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,680 - to come in and cuddle all our belongings in garbage bags. 506 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:37,640 People who came in got to see All our things are in garbage bags. 507 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:43,040 Later, Jim showed us where the idea came from: the movie Full Metal Jacket. 508 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,920 Then we'll see if something is missing here! 509 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:55,240 It's like at recruit school: "I want to show you that I can take everything you have." 510 00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:02,000 "You don't own anything. You don't have human dignity. Your things are worthless.” 511 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:13,720 This is from November 2018. An Airbnb apartment in Washington D.C. 512 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:20,040 We attended a number of conferences there. This was probably taken over a weekend. 513 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,960 We were in New York and Boston too. 514 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,200 It was also fun at times. That's why I stayed. 515 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:37,680 There I am, on board the private jet Jim took us in. 516 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:43,840 We got to sit in the cockpit. Here we are standing outside the plane. 517 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:49,600 And then Jim asked if anyone would drive his Porsche on the way home. 518 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:04,040 We went on team building trips. Often there was alcohol in the picture. 519 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,400 Jim had a huge wine cellar at home. 520 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,720 We had meetings after work, and Jim brought wine. 521 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:19,520 It became normal, eventually, that this was something we did as a team. 522 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,440 In the end, Jim had fired so many - 523 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:28,800 - that the analyst team only passed of women under the age of 25. 524 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:37,800 There were young women, several of them in his first job, which would be the boss. 525 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,320 And he gave them praise and reward when they did as he said. 526 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:52,240 He could have them to do horrible things. 527 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:59,040 And most obeyed, just out of thin air a desire to please him. 528 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,240 One would think that such a leadership culture would be noticed. 529 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,360 But maybe it had been the prevailing culture in eBay. 530 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,960 This was taken on eBay's premises. We ran into Devin. 531 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:21,120 - Did he know you? - Yes, we delivered his mail and chatted occasionally. 532 00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:29,760 He, his assistant and chief of staff called us probably "Jim's angels" or something like that. 533 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:39,160 It was depressing to sit through the interrogations of Veronica and the two Stephanies. 534 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:46,840 Stephanie Stockwell was very young. She and Jim Baugh began a relationship when she started. 535 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,720 That's how he ran his department. 536 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,040 Congratulations on the day! 537 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:20,120 On 11 March I had a session with Popp. I have written: "Goal 1 - self-confidence." 538 00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:27,200 I tried to find a role in the group, and got it keep hearing that they had plans for me. 539 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:34,800 Jim Baugh fostered, and they developed among themselves, a competitive culture. 540 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,400 Jim played them off against each other. 541 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,720 We had a streak. 542 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:53,440 Most of us were employed through a staffing agency. 543 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,280 Those who were full-time employees, received better treatment. 544 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,480 I remember that Stephanie Popp was promoted to full-time. 545 00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:10,840 About a year later, Stephanie Stockwell became that too. It took me to bed. 546 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:19,800 I told Jim I was concerned to have Stockwell above me on the ladder. 547 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:26,200 He flew off the shaft and called me a bad analyst and colleague. 548 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:31,120 Made me laugh. It doesn't happen very often. 549 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:37,640 Later he called that meeting "when he finally broke me". 550 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,960 Jim had said that whoever started laughing, would get fired. 551 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:51,120 -Did you get fired? -No. He did something worse. 552 00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:57,520 He pushed me to do things I will regret it for the rest of my life. 553 00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:14,920 I still had to cover same type of cases as before. 554 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:22,480 Times had become hard for eBay, and the pressure on Devin Wenig was immense. 555 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:29,120 When he became CEO, eBay was much smaller. And he was probably disappointed by that. 556 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:38,280 He had bigger views. He built a large signal building on eBay's site. 557 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:45,760 Visitors were greeted by a high-tech exhibition about how great the marketplace was. 558 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:51,240 Little eagerness to produce eBay as a major player in Silicon Valley. 559 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,200 With a headquarters a la Google and Facebook. 560 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,520 Hello, eBay! 561 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,400 We built this! Do you like it? 562 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:10,200 He wanted to show that eBay still could join the game. 563 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:18,080 But a director who will implement a turnaround, is under time pressure. 564 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,640 Over time, investors grew impatient. 565 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,800 Activist investor eyes eBay 566 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:32,520 -Elliott Management now owns 4% of eBay. - The fund expands its shareholding. 567 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,840 Elliott buys into yet another company. They always have something going on. 568 00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:43,320 On Wall Street there is something which are called "activist investors". 569 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:49,960 Sheelah Kolhatkar, The New Yorker They are constantly looking for investment opportunities. 570 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:56,400 Elliott Management is among the most aggressive in this category. 571 00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,200 Elliott Management acquires Nielsen... 572 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,840 Buys into AT&T with $3.2 billion... 573 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,760 Invests over $1 billion in Twitter… 574 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:13,360 They buy into a company and then focuses on pressuring the company - 575 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,160 - to do things that get the share price to rise in the short term. 576 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,680 When they go after someone, they mean business. 577 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,320 They like spending cuts. They split up the company. 578 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:30,520 And they are trying to squeeze out the director. 579 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:35,640 They manage more than 50 billion dollars. 580 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:42,120 So they have the resources to implement almost anything, whenever they want. 581 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,840 eBay stock soars following a letter from Elliott Management - 582 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,840 - that they see great opportunities to share value increase. 583 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:58,200 On January 19, a letter arrived from Elliott Management. 584 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:03,360 They believed eBay stock was underpriced and so greater potential. 585 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,880 "But then we have to sell something. And cut into something else." 586 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,040 "And get rid of some people." 587 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:17,680 Devin Wenig considered them as enemy number 1. 588 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,440 Ask for advice in an "Elliott Management situation", - 589 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:29,000 - you will hear that you need a PR team. A consultant who knows how they think. 590 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:34,680 Now it's up to the judge for eBay director Devin Wenig. 591 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:41,160 It puts pressure on the directors until they become so scared and paranoid - 592 00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,680 - that they do stupid things which can cause them to be thrown. 593 00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:56,600 First time I heard about Elliott Management was early 2019, I think. 594 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:03,840 Jim said that Devin in particular seemed frightened that they bought themselves up. 595 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:10,760 He said they had destroyed other companies before, and that it would happen to us too. 596 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:19,920 The pressure inside eBay increased. Focus on quarterly results were strengthened. 597 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,360 And Devin Wenig got manically busy of mention in the media. 598 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:34,960 eBay's security team had always been monitoring the press coverage, both positive and negative. 599 01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:43,840 And Ina wrote articles on topics which eBay did not want attention to. 600 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,880 When we found articles with negative reviews, did Jim lift it - 601 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,760 - to Communications Director Steve Wymer. 602 01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:01,080 "The eBay director earns 152 times as much as the employees" 603 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,960 We're going to crush this lady. 604 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,200 To hell with them. 605 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,320 I was still on the hunt looking for something new to write about. 606 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:17,440 I kept an eye on eBay- and Amazon forums. And with Twitter. 607 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,960 On Twitter, someone posted pictures of drink vouchers - 608 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,720 - to a bar inside eBay's site. 609 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:32,920 It turned out that eBay had indeed built itself a bar called "Walker's West". 610 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:39,040 It got its name because it was a true copy of "Walker's" in New York. 611 01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:47,600 It was very detailed equipped. I really wondered what they were doing. 612 01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:51,760 Steiner wrote about it as a sign of waste. 613 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,040 "They have money problems, but the management is building itself a pub." 614 01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:01,120 eBay management thought so was unfairly critical. 615 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:08,160 Wenig not only reacted to the articles, but also on people's comments below them. 616 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,920 What a jerk. 617 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,040 Wenig has his own eBay-a-Lago. 618 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,200 If Wenig wants something homely, send him home! 619 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,640 Jim believed that Elliott Management paid Steiners - 620 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:26,600 - to provoke negative feedback about eBay. 621 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:34,440 So people should think that the management needed replacement. 622 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,200 "eBay's CEO promises more protection for sellers" 623 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,760 Shockingly sensible. 624 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,000 I give a shit about what she writes. 625 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,360 Put her out of the game. 626 01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:54,480 They hesitantly spent a lot of time on Ina Steiner and her website. 627 01:02:54,600 --> 01:03:00,520 If anything posed a threat to Devin Wenig, then there were eBay's results. 628 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:05,280 But in August she wrote a case on eBay's lawsuit against Amazon. 629 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,440 She posted an article on the matter. 630 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:15,560 That prompted Wenig to write messages to Wymer. 631 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,880 If you intend to put her out of play, do it now. 632 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,760 Working on it. 633 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:27,360 Steve Wymer took it further. 634 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:33,160 Ina has written about the trial. If we're going to take her, it has to happen now. 635 01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,000 I saw it. 636 01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,440 Hate is a sin. I am a great sinner. 637 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,080 Management almost teased Jim: 638 01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:49,160 "All this you bring about, but not to have a small blog shut down?" 639 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:58,880 Jim said that a communications consultant had contacted the Steiners. 640 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,240 But he said it had been Tried before and failed. 641 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,880 Now they wanted us to take over. 642 01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,880 This annoys me! All solutions should be explored. 643 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,360 Before. Anyone. Price. 644 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:19,240 Do we want the entire site shut down? 645 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,360 I don't fuck anymore. 646 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,480 Amen. I want her gone. 647 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:31,600 -DW said "burn off everything"? - She is an internet troll who needs to be burned. 648 01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,680 It will take a maximum of two weeks. Is that OK? 649 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,320 I want to see the ashes. 650 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,600 Take the time you need. Use all means. 651 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:49,400 - I'll start. It takes two weeks. - I take care of negative consequences. 652 01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:54,600 Wymer told Baugh: "I'll take care of you." Now what does that mean. 653 01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,320 We protect you? Procuring lawyers? Who knows. 654 01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,720 That's what Baugh told his subordinates. 655 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:06,160 This guy ran his team like a colonel in the army. 656 01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:13,280 And he says, “This is how we do this. I say it's fine, and those above say so." 657 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,200 Jim showed me Body of Lies. 658 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:26,000 Create fake accounts for them and transfer money from Sadiki's fake receiving account. 659 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,680 He kept repeating, "This is my plan." 660 01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:34,280 Send this from Sadiki's fake email address, then we're off to a good start. 661 01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,560 Right. 662 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:50,800 And so the Twitter messages begin. It was Stephanie Popp, - 663 01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:55,720 - under the alias Tui Elei. The name was a wild invention. 664 01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:02,720 They hoped it would look like it came from someone who was a little intimidating. 665 01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:07,760 -Pizza for Hitler! -"Hitler"? Hiss! Hold on... 666 01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,880 He showed a film clip. 667 01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,720 No, it won't be $283! I haven't ordered! 668 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,960 To show what he had planned about doing to the Steiners. 669 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:24,360 He sent me to Safeway to buy Visa gift card to pay for the packages with. 670 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:29,920 There is a package here. You know, I've been waiting here for so long. 671 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:34,360 Steiners hardly imagined a group of young women - 672 01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:41,720 - who drank wine, watched movies and invented things to send those who could remember the films. 673 01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,800 “Your fat man must get behave yourself, you fucking cunt." 674 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:53,200 They sat there in their office and had no idea how severely they frightened their victims. 675 01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:59,920 Phil Cooke helped approve The Twitter messages. 676 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:07,440 I remember when we found this. What kind employees are told to do something like this, - 677 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:12,160 - and answers: "Yeah well. Is this bad enough?" 678 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,520 After the packages, the pizzas and the porn - 679 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:23,240 - says Jim: "We need to step up. We're going to Boston." 680 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,600 “I have a plan for what we're doing when we get there." 681 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:33,400 He said we should go and see if they had just had the house painted, - 682 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:40,080 - whether they had a new car, or others indications that they were paid by Elliott. 683 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:48,960 When we got on the plane, Jim asked if I wanted to hear what the plan actually entailed. 684 01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:56,040 He had a half-baked plan about scaring the Steiners. 685 01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:03,840 Then someone from eBay should get in touch and offer help in dealing with the tormentor. 686 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,920 As a "saving knight". 687 01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:11,520 And in gratitude over that cozy eBay will help them, - 688 01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,880 - they would moderate their criticism of the company. 689 01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,280 - That was the plan. -Let it happen. 690 01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:24,560 I'm sitting on a plane about to land, - 691 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:31,520 - together with someone who clearly has a screw loose, and talks about his plan. 692 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,000 I was horrified. 693 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,840 They took in the Ritz-Carlton. 694 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:47,760 It was me, Jim, and his best friend, Dave. 695 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:52,800 Dave had been in the army. "The Girl Scouts" he called us. 696 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:59,040 Jim said he wanted Dave, for he knew such operations. 697 01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:04,440 I was just going to rent the car with the credit card from the staffing agency. 698 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:11,760 Veronica's credit card made Jim could do this outside of eBay's accounting. 699 01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:22,520 We drove to Natick. Jim wanted to plant a tracking transmitter on their car. 700 01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:35,560 Jim and Dave went out and looked around in the neighborhood for a while. 701 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:45,200 They thought that shadowing David Steiner could lead them to someone at Elliott Management. 702 01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,840 They had a tracking transmitter they wanted to party on his car. 703 01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:55,080 But the car was in a garage. So they wanted to see if they could break in. 704 01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:02,920 Harville used his company card at a local hardware store. 705 01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:08,320 They bought a painter's knife with a hook which can open window shutters. 706 01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:13,400 As well as a crowbar, rubber gloves and a pair of screwdrivers. 707 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:20,080 After 34 years in the police I would call it burglary equipment. 708 01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,000 They didn't break into the house, - 709 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:30,160 - but the fact that they considered it thought we were crazy enough. 710 01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,880 The second time Jim followed their car, - 711 01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:42,200 - I sat in a small park in the city centre. Jim told me to listen to the police radio. 712 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:47,320 I heard the car registration and said: "They know who you are." 713 01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:52,600 Jim said, "Once you have delivered the rental car, it cannot be traced." 714 01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,040 I don't think that's true, I said. 715 01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:04,720 I went to the hotel and told them that I would go to bed laughing, or something. 716 01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,920 I want to go home. 717 01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,480 So sorry to hear. 718 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,800 I had no idea what to do. 719 01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:25,600 I repeated to myself that they must have a good reason I didn't understand. 720 01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:31,640 I put my trust in the worst people I could trust. 721 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:38,400 My entire time at eBay was full of humiliation. Everything was wrong. 722 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,880 Nothing was normal. 723 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:50,040 I let myself down in that I didn't put my foot down. 724 01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:57,040 But then and there I probably forgot that I was an adult and could just walk. 725 01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:09,480 We went to the hotel to talk to Veronica Zea and find out what she knew. 726 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:15,280 We called the room. I said I was a police detective - 727 01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:22,080 - and that we had registered incidents where her name had appeared. 728 01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:28,880 I remember saying I was in a meeting, but that I should talk to them afterwards. 729 01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:33,280 After about an hour she had not arrived. 730 01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:39,120 Jim told me to pack and leave the hotel. 731 01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,760 I had her mobile number. 732 01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:49,000 I saw his area code and showed my cell phone to Jim. 733 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,600 A man answered and said he was her husband. 734 01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:58,520 That she didn't want to talk to us. And he used a few swear words. 735 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:05,960 I thought it was an unusual response to get from an American businessman. 736 01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:12,040 Jim hung up and laughed it off. "They are so confused now." 737 01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:21,000 Hi Steve. We are on the lookout for our friend in Boston. The local police tracked down our rental car. 738 01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:26,800 Not sure how long this will last. Coverage from above would have been nice. 739 01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:32,480 Jim took me to another hotel and asked me to order Bloody Mary for us. 740 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:36,520 He was lying on the bed drinking. I was in panic mode. 741 01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,720 He just laughed. 742 01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:46,160 Then we got a call from someone at eBay. 743 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,720 It was Brian Gilbert. 744 01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:56,720 He was to play the role as "saving knight". 745 01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,680 He called from eBay's security department: 746 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:05,200 “We have seen threatening Twitter messages. Are you all right?" 747 01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:11,160 I told him to call Detective Haswell, and then I hung up. 748 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,920 The Steiners wanted nothing to do with eBay. 749 01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,440 The plan for a saving knight didn't work. 750 01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:25,440 Brian Gilbert called me and said he was on his way to New York, but was supposed to stop by Boston. 751 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:31,080 He came and told us that Veronica was only there for a seminar. 752 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:36,920 That she might have passed the house by accident. And that was it. 753 01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:41,880 He went, and then he wrote to Baugh that everything was in order. 754 01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:50,360 What struck us was how persistent they continued their behavior. 755 01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:53,920 The harassment lasted for weeks. 756 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:58,920 It didn't just happen online, but via post and up close. 757 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:04,840 And even when they realized that the police was in the picture, they did not give up. 758 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,400 We asked eBay for information. 759 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:16,360 That led to eBay's legal department was withdrawn. 760 01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,360 I got email from legal. They wanted to talk to me. 761 01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:29,240 Then the meetings begin. People's mobiles and PCs are confiscated. 762 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:34,280 We got fired, all of us, within a couple of weeks. 763 01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:40,560 Baugh wrote us that Devin too I thought this was a shame. 764 01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:50,040 And that we should behave loyally and say nothing, and it would pay off. 765 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:55,680 To the last Baugh believed that he had top management behind him. 766 01:15:55,800 --> 01:16:01,320 Few would save them. "Leave them alone, they did it for my sake." 767 01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:05,160 But the end was near. 768 01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:11,600 Steve Wymer was eventually fired. And Wenig left. 769 01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:19,440 Devin Wenig retires as director of eBay. 770 01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:24,320 - He's out. Morna. - Good outside! 771 01:16:24,440 --> 01:16:27,000 There is something underneath here. 772 01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:33,640 When the company saw that the FBI was involved, the dance began. 773 01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,640 Their lawyers submitted internet research. 774 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,680 The Federal Prosecutor's Office Massachusetts 775 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:45,160 They did everything they could to clear the company of suspicion. 776 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:49,640 This was the work of an individual employee, and they had been fired. 777 01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:55,320 We always ask ourselves how high up a case goes. 778 01:16:55,440 --> 01:17:02,320 Who bears the responsibility? Nobody wants to to bring charges against a scapegoat. 779 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,440 Good morning. 780 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:21,120 Today we are bringing charges against six former eBay employees - 781 01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:26,760 - for having carried out a comprehensive harassment and intimidation campaign - 782 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,480 - against a married couple in Natick, Massachusetts. 783 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,600 Jim Baugh is wanted by the FBI in California. 784 01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:39,000 David Harville was arrested this morning in New York. 785 01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:46,640 They are charged with stalking over the internet and obstructing a police investigation. 786 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,360 Shocking accusations against former eBay employees. 787 01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:54,920 -Bizarre stalking via the internet. -Who comes up with that?! 788 01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:03,960 I don't remember how I came across it. What the hell was this? 789 01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:08,000 People wrote to each other: "Have you seen this?!" 790 01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:12,280 It was both sad and embarrassing, - 791 01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:17,440 - even though we had long since stopped. Because eBay was our company. 792 01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:23,040 Four others, also former employees, is charged with complicity: 793 01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:28,360 Stephanie Popp, Stephanie Stockwell, Veronica Zea and Brian Gilbert. 794 01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:33,840 How high did this go? eBay says about then-director Devin Wenig - 795 01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:41,240 - that there is no evidence that he knew about or approved the actions against the married couple. 796 01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:45,360 When I read these messages: "Put her out of the game." 797 01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:50,000 "Burn her. I want to see the ashes. At any cost.” 798 01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,440 Why not hold them accountable? 799 01:18:53,560 --> 01:19:00,240 Ideally, one would punish the bosses, whether they are responsible, but it must be proven. 800 01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:05,200 My experience is that managers uses such language all the time. 801 01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:12,560 I think these are company managers who are throwing things around with the mouth. But there is a lack of connection. 802 01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:21,200 Jim Baugh decided to solve the problem with a crime. Should they have expected it? 803 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,960 Before. Anyone. Price. 804 01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,480 Everyone is allowed to claim that they did not know. 805 01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:34,880 Rosemary C. Scapicchio, Attorney But as a director, shouldn't you? 806 01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,520 And what did eBay do? 807 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:44,840 We know that their lawyers had tried to solve the "problem" of the Steiners. 808 01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:49,160 They said they had gone as far as they could, without success. 809 01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:55,680 Then the bosses gave the task to the security department and said: "Do what you must." 810 01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:03,160 Baugh kept hearing that he had the company in the back and would get "cover from above". 811 01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:10,440 If all he were to do were lawful, wouldn't it be necessary. 812 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:16,920 The director of such a large company can't drop a match in the middle of the forest - 813 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:22,040 - and then say: "I had no idea that I started a forest fire." 814 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:44,520 The public prosecutor's office threw this at us. 815 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:50,240 They did not go far enough in silence those responsible for the court. 816 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:59,400 Where is Devin Wenig? Why not sit Steve Wymer on the dock? 817 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:06,760 They were the ones who did it, not just them who actually came to Natick. They were behind. 818 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:17,000 Had the police not done their job, would eBay succeed in gagging us. 819 01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:24,120 It's hard to admit, but they somehow succeeded. 820 01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:27,960 David and I... 821 01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:32,120 We are not like before. 822 01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:36,760 Today we are suing in federal court - 823 01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:44,800 - all those who were behind scare- and the threat campaign against the Steiner couple. 824 01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:59,040 Should your superiors in eBay also sentenced to prison? 825 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:06,600 Should the case end like this, or should eBay be held liable? 826 01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:13,800 Jim Baugh received a prison sentence in 4 years and 9 months. 827 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,840 Do you want to apologize to the Steiners? 828 01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,960 Do you accept responsibility? 829 01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:34,240 Should eBay be held liable? 830 01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:39,160 Dave Harville was convicted to imprisonment for two years. 831 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:46,840 Phil Cooke was convicted to prison for a year and a half. 832 01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:51,840 Brian Gilbert was sentenced to one year supervised parole - 833 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:55,200 - and a fine of 20,000 dollars. 834 01:22:55,320 --> 01:23:00,120 Stephanie Popp was convicted to imprisonment for one year and one day. 835 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:08,400 Stephanie Stockwell was sentenced to two years conditional release, one under house arrest. 836 01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:16,720 I was sentenced to two years conditional release, - 837 01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:23,840 - one during home confinement. And I was fined $5,000. 838 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:34,040 Steve Wymer is now president of the association "Silicon Valley Boys' and Girls' Clubs". 839 01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:41,800 Devin Wenig got a shutout of $57 million when he retired. 840 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,600 Talk about falling deep! 841 01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:59,080 In the early period, eBay was great. Could it last? At least it didn't. 842 01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,560 Did you know that eBay was founded with the motto "People want well"? 843 01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:07,600 So? So nice. No, I don't think I knew. 844 01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:14,280 - That was the founder's principle. - I never met him. 845 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:28,320 The other convicts refused to participate or has not responded to inquiries. 846 01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,680 Steve Wymer states via his lawyer: 847 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:40,440 "The media coverage has been one-sided. Wymer knew of no offense." 848 01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:45,160 "Claims otherwise have not been made supported by factual evidence." 849 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,320 Devin Wenig, now board member in General Motors, states: 850 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:53,840 "The Misdeeds Against the Steiners was carried out without my knowledge." 851 01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:58,000 "I would never condone such behavior, but stopped it immediately." 852 01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:02,960 In court documents, Wenig explains that he with "put her out of the game" - 853 01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,480 - meant the use of normal, legal PR measures. 854 01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:13,480 In January 2024, eBay was indicted for harassment and obstruction of justice. 855 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:21,080 The charge was dropped in exchange for eBay adopting one fine of 3 million dollars and three years of supervision. 856 01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:25,400 In a letter, eBay apologized opposite Steiner's. 857 01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:30,840 Charges were not issued against Devin Wenig or Steve Wymer.