1 00:00:09,176 --> 00:00:14,006 The jury deliberated about 45 minutes. 2 00:00:14,098 --> 00:00:16,478 They came back with a decision of death. 3 00:00:16,517 --> 00:00:17,977 A majority of the jury advise 4 00:00:18,018 --> 00:00:19,228 and recommend to the court 5 00:00:19,270 --> 00:00:21,520 that it impose the death penalty upon the defendant, 6 00:00:21,564 --> 00:00:22,944 Theodore Robert Bundy. 7 00:00:22,982 --> 00:00:24,281 The court is adjourned. 8 00:00:24,316 --> 00:00:26,526 You tell the jury that they were wrong. 9 00:00:26,569 --> 00:00:28,779 So many women died, and I just felt like, 10 00:00:28,821 --> 00:00:30,201 "Why am I still alive? 11 00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:33,829 "I should be dead too." 12 00:00:33,868 --> 00:00:36,578 I can't imagine anybody doing what I did. 13 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:40,040 Having this relationship with somebody who's become so iconic 14 00:00:40,082 --> 00:00:43,092 for being the most horrific person in the world. 15 00:00:43,127 --> 00:00:46,007 I didn't really start rebuilding my life 16 00:00:46,046 --> 00:00:48,916 until he told me the truth from Florida 17 00:00:48,966 --> 00:00:51,086 when he called me in the middle of the night. 18 00:00:51,135 --> 00:00:52,845 Yeah, I asked him specifically about 19 00:00:52,887 --> 00:00:54,177 the Florida murders. 20 00:00:54,221 --> 00:00:57,771 He said he felt like he had a disease like alcoholism, 21 00:00:57,808 --> 00:01:00,098 like the alcoholic that couldn't take another drink. 22 00:01:00,144 --> 00:01:02,274 He told me there was just something he couldn't be around, 23 00:01:02,313 --> 00:01:03,563 and he knew it now. 24 00:01:03,606 --> 00:01:04,936 Well, I finally knew the truth. 25 00:01:04,982 --> 00:01:06,692 Yes, he did those things. 26 00:01:06,734 --> 00:01:09,904 I didn't feel like I was really free to move forward until then. 27 00:01:09,945 --> 00:01:11,985 I just had to hear it from him. 28 00:01:12,031 --> 00:01:16,371 But to know that he was out killing people... 29 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:19,580 when we were still in a relationship is just... 30 00:01:19,622 --> 00:01:21,332 it's just really a... 31 00:01:21,373 --> 00:01:24,793 a hard idea to incorporate, 32 00:01:24,835 --> 00:01:27,705 to integrate into my life. 33 00:01:27,755 --> 00:01:30,415 That fact invalidates what we had. 34 00:01:30,466 --> 00:01:32,796 It seems like nothing was real between Ted and I 35 00:01:32,843 --> 00:01:35,933 and my daughter. 36 00:01:35,971 --> 00:01:39,481 I don't give a fuck whether he loved us or not. 37 00:01:39,517 --> 00:01:41,437 It makes no difference. 38 00:01:41,477 --> 00:01:44,057 Do you think it matters to your mom? 39 00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:47,534 Probably. 40 00:02:22,893 --> 00:02:25,653 Ted Bundy is not just another death row inmate. 41 00:02:25,688 --> 00:02:27,768 Convicted of three murders in Florida, 42 00:02:27,815 --> 00:02:30,855 suspected of a great many more in Washington State, 43 00:02:30,901 --> 00:02:33,201 Oregon, Utah, and Colorado. 44 00:02:33,237 --> 00:02:35,607 Ted Bundy became infamous... 45 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:48,710 I'd just moved to the University of Florida, 46 00:02:48,752 --> 00:02:52,212 and one of my professors was very active 47 00:02:52,256 --> 00:02:56,136 in Gainesville Citizens Against The Death Penalty. 48 00:02:56,176 --> 00:02:59,506 And he would invite people over to his house, 49 00:02:59,555 --> 00:03:03,055 people involved in different cases, 50 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:04,520 and there was Carole. 51 00:03:06,437 --> 00:03:09,317 And we became good friends. 52 00:03:09,356 --> 00:03:13,316 She talked about the circus that was the trial, 53 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,240 and Ted's side of it, 54 00:03:15,279 --> 00:03:20,199 and how she could believe that he could be innocent. 55 00:03:20,242 --> 00:03:25,162 She married him at the sentencing part of a trial. 56 00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:27,785 - Will you marry me? - Yes, I will. 57 00:03:27,833 --> 00:03:30,213 And I do hereby marry you. 58 00:03:30,252 --> 00:03:34,212 She was very much protected 59 00:03:34,256 --> 00:03:37,426 and surrounded by people who did not question 60 00:03:37,468 --> 00:03:39,888 whether he was innocent or guilty because they were 61 00:03:39,929 --> 00:03:42,929 attached to the death penalty project. 62 00:03:46,727 --> 00:03:49,477 Carole Boone was the woman that had approached 63 00:03:49,521 --> 00:03:51,821 my editor and offered me the meeting. 64 00:03:51,857 --> 00:03:55,487 I went, we went out to lunch, and Carole explained 65 00:03:55,527 --> 00:03:57,657 her relationship to Bundy, that she was kind of 66 00:03:57,696 --> 00:04:00,906 working on his behalf and advocating for him, 67 00:04:00,950 --> 00:04:04,040 and wondered if I'd like to be in correspondence with him. 68 00:04:04,078 --> 00:04:05,698 I thought she was very smart. 69 00:04:05,746 --> 00:04:08,496 I was very impressed with her. I was of course skeptical, 70 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:10,460 but she was all in. 71 00:04:10,501 --> 00:04:12,091 She had... 72 00:04:12,127 --> 00:04:15,257 You know, she committed her life to this in ways that 73 00:04:15,297 --> 00:04:19,297 were difficult to witness. 74 00:04:19,343 --> 00:04:21,353 They were going to build this life together, 75 00:04:21,387 --> 00:04:24,347 where she would get him off death row 76 00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:27,730 and they would have a family. 77 00:04:33,482 --> 00:04:35,362 She was going to save him, 78 00:04:35,401 --> 00:04:37,741 and that goes back to her history 79 00:04:37,778 --> 00:04:40,528 of her 15-year-old brother drowned 80 00:04:40,572 --> 00:04:43,372 in a neighbour's pool. 81 00:04:43,409 --> 00:04:46,579 She definitely felt responsible and very guilty 82 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:49,620 about Frank's drowning 83 00:04:49,665 --> 00:04:52,625 while she was supposed to be watching him. 84 00:04:52,668 --> 00:04:57,008 And so that was one piece of... 85 00:04:57,047 --> 00:04:59,797 "I need to save, I need to redeem, 86 00:04:59,842 --> 00:05:04,472 "and I'll save this man." 87 00:05:04,513 --> 00:05:08,103 You know, there were Christmas cards that went out to people. 88 00:05:08,142 --> 00:05:10,812 You know, Ted, Carole, Rosa, 89 00:05:10,853 --> 00:05:13,903 and even the dog print of Carole's dog. 90 00:05:13,939 --> 00:05:17,069 And they were trying to be normal. 91 00:05:17,109 --> 00:05:20,489 They had not had normal lives. 92 00:05:20,529 --> 00:05:23,619 "Normal" was a big word. 93 00:05:30,539 --> 00:05:33,749 I feel like me and my daughter 94 00:05:33,792 --> 00:05:37,762 were about the realest things that he ever had in his life, 95 00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:41,626 that we represented something that he really wanted, 96 00:05:41,675 --> 00:05:46,175 and that he tried to maintain. 97 00:05:46,221 --> 00:05:49,811 It was so easy for me to revert back into... 98 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:51,600 um... 99 00:05:51,643 --> 00:05:55,063 thinking of the first years we were together, and... 100 00:05:55,105 --> 00:05:59,485 You know, I've wondered, was that just all a big act? 101 00:05:59,526 --> 00:06:01,446 And that's part of the reason I kept that scrapbook 102 00:06:01,487 --> 00:06:04,867 full of snapshots, was like... 103 00:06:04,907 --> 00:06:06,577 you know, it shows what we were-- 104 00:06:06,617 --> 00:06:09,287 what we had together in the beginning. 105 00:06:09,328 --> 00:06:14,038 Ad if they weren't real, then it just makes me feel like this... 106 00:06:14,083 --> 00:06:17,673 I'm as crazy as Ted was. 107 00:06:21,924 --> 00:06:25,304 I had to go from the place of love 108 00:06:25,344 --> 00:06:30,104 and tenderness to the place of how... 109 00:06:30,140 --> 00:06:33,690 how does this person 110 00:06:33,727 --> 00:06:37,227 enjoy to tear women apart 111 00:06:37,272 --> 00:06:39,532 with his bare hands? 112 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:42,436 Why would anybody... 113 00:06:42,486 --> 00:06:45,106 do such a thing? 114 00:06:45,155 --> 00:06:48,575 It's hard for me to look on those pictures and see him 115 00:06:48,617 --> 00:06:50,987 treating me so tenderly, 116 00:06:51,036 --> 00:06:55,286 and to really believe in that any longer. 117 00:07:06,510 --> 00:07:07,720 Do you remember that camping trip 118 00:07:07,761 --> 00:07:09,051 with your brother? 119 00:07:09,096 --> 00:07:11,596 Well, there were several camping trips like that. 120 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,310 I could be about nine or ten. 121 00:07:13,350 --> 00:07:15,890 Maybe eight, right? 122 00:07:15,936 --> 00:07:19,936 On one hand, I'm curious about where it is, and... 123 00:07:19,982 --> 00:07:22,942 you know, I must admit that right now I'm thinking about it, 124 00:07:22,985 --> 00:07:24,695 seeing this, and on the other hand, 125 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:27,316 I couldn't care less. 126 00:07:27,364 --> 00:07:28,784 It kind of sucks to have to say it, 127 00:07:28,824 --> 00:07:30,874 but I wouldn't-- I really wouldn't want this picture. 128 00:07:30,909 --> 00:07:32,449 There's no joy in it. 129 00:07:32,494 --> 00:07:34,504 Absolutely none. 130 00:07:34,538 --> 00:07:36,708 There was then, but not now. 131 00:07:36,748 --> 00:07:39,418 He could do a million of these, 132 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:41,589 but it doesn't outweigh one... 133 00:07:41,628 --> 00:07:43,258 just one of the victims, you know? 134 00:07:43,297 --> 00:07:44,297 One of those people. 135 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:46,799 It only takes one person that he killed, 136 00:07:46,842 --> 00:07:50,102 it makes it all just go to shit, you know? 137 00:08:04,526 --> 00:08:05,776 Ten years ago tomorrow, 138 00:08:05,819 --> 00:08:07,449 The Supreme Court of the United States 139 00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,357 reinstated the death penalty, 140 00:08:09,406 --> 00:08:11,576 and tomorrow a man named Ted Bundy 141 00:08:11,617 --> 00:08:14,577 was going to die in Florida's electric chair. 142 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:17,250 He's been granted a last-minute stay of execution 143 00:08:17,289 --> 00:08:21,539 pending an appeal based on legal technicalities. 144 00:08:21,585 --> 00:08:25,625 The call came to a young associate, and he said, 145 00:08:25,672 --> 00:08:29,472 you know, "There's a warrant, and we need somebody to file 146 00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:32,969 "an application for a stay of execution in the Supreme Court." 147 00:08:33,013 --> 00:08:35,143 And he asked me, 148 00:08:35,182 --> 00:08:38,772 and asked another young associate, 149 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:42,690 Polly Nelson, if we would take on the case. 150 00:08:45,609 --> 00:08:47,109 Associate walked in my room and asked, 151 00:08:47,152 --> 00:08:48,742 "Do you want a little pro-bono project?" 152 00:08:48,779 --> 00:08:51,029 And I thought, "My god, that's exactly 153 00:08:51,073 --> 00:08:52,243 "why I became a lawyer." 154 00:08:52,282 --> 00:08:54,032 I mean, that's a lawyer's dream, 155 00:08:54,076 --> 00:08:56,496 is to represent somebody on death row 156 00:08:56,536 --> 00:08:59,746 against being executed by the state. 157 00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:00,920 I was a brand-new lawyer, 158 00:09:00,958 --> 00:09:05,168 and this was my very first legal case. 159 00:09:05,212 --> 00:09:08,762 I could picture him alone in his cell waiting to be executed. 160 00:09:08,799 --> 00:09:11,009 You know, this is extremely personal for me 161 00:09:11,051 --> 00:09:14,641 to identify that threatened soul. 162 00:09:17,307 --> 00:09:18,977 When I was 10 or 11, 163 00:09:19,017 --> 00:09:22,767 I just remember after a rain, 164 00:09:22,813 --> 00:09:24,233 worms had ended up on the sidewalk, 165 00:09:24,273 --> 00:09:27,323 and the water had receded and they were struggling. 166 00:09:27,359 --> 00:09:30,779 And I felt so sorry for them 167 00:09:30,821 --> 00:09:32,491 that then I made a mud bath for them, 168 00:09:32,531 --> 00:09:34,571 and I put them in the mud bath, 169 00:09:34,616 --> 00:09:36,866 because they seemed so despicable, 170 00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:38,500 and that that was the reason I needed to help them, 171 00:09:38,537 --> 00:09:41,667 because nobody else was going to help them. 172 00:09:44,835 --> 00:09:48,085 I went to the prison for the first time to meet him, 173 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:50,920 and they put us in the lunchroom, 174 00:09:50,966 --> 00:09:53,046 basically where the families met, 175 00:09:53,093 --> 00:09:54,513 and I was shocked. 176 00:09:54,553 --> 00:09:57,723 It was not what I was expecting from a maximum-security prison. 177 00:09:57,764 --> 00:10:00,234 He showed me pictures of his daughter 178 00:10:00,267 --> 00:10:03,017 and his wife. 179 00:10:03,061 --> 00:10:06,401 Polaroids that the guards would take for a fee 180 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,990 on family day. 181 00:10:11,028 --> 00:10:12,568 So I looked at him and I thought, "Okay, now, 182 00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:16,122 "what can I see in this man that would alert me?" 183 00:10:16,158 --> 00:10:18,238 But I saw nothing. There was-- there was nothing. 184 00:10:18,285 --> 00:10:19,905 No sense of guilt. 185 00:10:19,953 --> 00:10:23,423 He was humble and quiet, and... 186 00:10:23,457 --> 00:10:26,497 and I couldn't recognize danger. 187 00:10:26,543 --> 00:10:28,503 No sense of it whatsoever. 188 00:10:31,673 --> 00:10:33,843 I think he wanted to impress us 189 00:10:33,884 --> 00:10:36,094 that he was a good guy. 190 00:10:36,136 --> 00:10:38,846 He wanted us to respect him, 191 00:10:38,889 --> 00:10:41,889 I think, as a... you know, as a person. 192 00:10:41,933 --> 00:10:46,403 To not be recoiled by him. To... you know, 193 00:10:46,438 --> 00:10:49,568 to sit in a room and have a conversation with him, 194 00:10:49,608 --> 00:10:52,528 and not, you know, hold our nose. 195 00:10:53,862 --> 00:10:56,162 I felt I held his life in my hands, 196 00:10:56,198 --> 00:10:58,778 like a worm or a kitten. 197 00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:01,825 And when you have someone's life in your hand, 198 00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:05,790 you don't make a lot of judgements about... 199 00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:08,042 the bigger picture. 200 00:11:08,085 --> 00:11:10,545 It becomes... 201 00:11:10,587 --> 00:11:11,917 non-negotiable. 202 00:11:11,963 --> 00:11:15,803 This person is going to die if I drop him. 203 00:11:19,763 --> 00:11:24,233 He was exhausting. 204 00:11:24,267 --> 00:11:27,187 Obsessive, demanding, moody. 205 00:11:27,229 --> 00:11:29,109 Always needing. 206 00:11:29,147 --> 00:11:31,527 As if she didn't have enough to do. 207 00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:33,066 Come on, Carole, tell us how he feels. 208 00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:34,280 Shut up. 209 00:11:34,319 --> 00:11:35,699 What'd Mr. Bundy have to say today? 210 00:11:35,737 --> 00:11:37,317 You shut up, too. 211 00:11:37,364 --> 00:11:39,164 - What did Mr. Bundy-- - Shut up! 212 00:11:39,199 --> 00:11:42,869 She was just tired of him. 213 00:11:42,911 --> 00:11:46,501 The letters became more and more infrequent. 214 00:11:50,836 --> 00:11:54,796 And the stay of executions were starting 215 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,380 to become less and less probable. 216 00:12:07,352 --> 00:12:09,272 After he was convicted in Utah, 217 00:12:09,312 --> 00:12:10,862 that was in... 218 00:12:10,897 --> 00:12:13,937 that was March 1st of '76. 219 00:12:13,984 --> 00:12:17,244 I was completely devastated, 220 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:19,449 because I just couldn't get a grip. 221 00:12:19,489 --> 00:12:21,989 I knew I had to put my life back together. 222 00:12:22,033 --> 00:12:25,543 I started seeing a counsellor, and he told me 223 00:12:25,579 --> 00:12:27,999 that if I continued to drink he wouldn't see me. 224 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:29,459 He said, "You've got to quit drinking 225 00:12:29,499 --> 00:12:31,749 "if you're gonna get well." 226 00:12:31,793 --> 00:12:34,463 I finally got sober in a recovery program, 227 00:12:34,504 --> 00:12:36,844 which was pivotal. 228 00:12:36,882 --> 00:12:39,012 And just working, working, working, 229 00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:41,390 to like rebuild my life. 230 00:12:41,428 --> 00:12:45,598 Until then, I was not a very good mom to Molly, for sure. 231 00:12:48,768 --> 00:12:50,938 She's a really strong, wonderful, 232 00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:54,979 smart young woman, and she does quite well. 233 00:12:55,025 --> 00:12:56,935 But there's not any way 234 00:12:56,985 --> 00:13:00,605 to give her back her childhood. 235 00:13:00,655 --> 00:13:03,695 You know, nobody sets out to drag their child 236 00:13:03,742 --> 00:13:06,952 through this, and it has to be a terrible feeling 237 00:13:06,995 --> 00:13:08,785 that this all went so wrong. 238 00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:12,210 And I know that she did the very best that she could. 239 00:13:12,250 --> 00:13:16,090 And I don't have any feelings of... 240 00:13:17,714 --> 00:13:20,344 ...blame or anything like that about it. 241 00:13:20,383 --> 00:13:23,353 It wasn't her fault. 242 00:13:23,386 --> 00:13:26,676 But it was a really challenging time for me. 243 00:13:26,723 --> 00:13:30,693 I did things that were so reckless, because I didn't care. 244 00:13:30,727 --> 00:13:33,687 I tried to drink myself to death, I believe. 245 00:13:33,730 --> 00:13:37,150 I felt like a rabbit in its hole waiting to die 246 00:13:37,192 --> 00:13:39,112 during parts of my drinking. 247 00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:41,702 I just drank till I would fall asleep, 248 00:13:41,738 --> 00:13:45,618 because I wanted my life to be past now so it could be done. 249 00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:50,660 A federal judge today refused to put off 250 00:13:50,705 --> 00:13:54,205 the execution, and unless the US Supreme Court orders a stay, 251 00:13:54,251 --> 00:13:57,421 Bundy will die. 252 00:13:57,462 --> 00:13:59,882 Ted had never admitted to Carole anything 253 00:13:59,923 --> 00:14:02,133 but that he was innocent. 254 00:14:02,175 --> 00:14:04,335 But just before it looked like 255 00:14:04,386 --> 00:14:06,216 there were no more stay of executions, 256 00:14:06,263 --> 00:14:08,893 he had run it out, 257 00:14:08,932 --> 00:14:12,892 he called her and asked 258 00:14:12,936 --> 00:14:16,106 if he should... 259 00:14:16,147 --> 00:14:17,857 tell them where the bodies are buried. 260 00:14:17,899 --> 00:14:22,109 They call it bones for time. 261 00:14:22,153 --> 00:14:24,613 And that was his way of telling her 262 00:14:24,656 --> 00:14:27,196 that there were bodies that he knew about, 263 00:14:27,242 --> 00:14:31,202 and that he had actually killed all those people. 264 00:14:31,246 --> 00:14:34,326 That call was just... 265 00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:36,714 devastating for her. 266 00:14:36,751 --> 00:14:39,301 She was really angry. 267 00:14:39,337 --> 00:14:41,797 I'm surprised she talked to him at all. 268 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,430 And he wanted to talk to Rosa, and she said no. 269 00:14:46,469 --> 00:14:49,849 So there was no goodbye for Rosa. 270 00:14:56,813 --> 00:14:59,403 So, he wanted to confess to law enforcement, 271 00:14:59,441 --> 00:15:02,901 thinking that that would ingratiate him to 272 00:15:02,944 --> 00:15:05,614 the governor for... in cooperating. 273 00:15:05,655 --> 00:15:08,155 And so I said, "Okay, well, you'll have to 274 00:15:08,199 --> 00:15:09,739 "describe one to me first, 275 00:15:09,784 --> 00:15:12,544 "so I can see what that sounds like, 276 00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:15,539 "and what is it that you're going to say." 277 00:15:15,582 --> 00:15:17,922 So... he's very reluctant to start, 278 00:15:17,959 --> 00:15:20,589 and we're sitting in this small, this time, 279 00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:23,419 room in the Warden's office, just on a small table, 280 00:15:23,465 --> 00:15:26,545 and he's got his hands on the-- on the table, 281 00:15:26,593 --> 00:15:28,853 and his whole persona, 282 00:15:28,887 --> 00:15:32,517 his whole physical being, is darkening. 283 00:15:32,557 --> 00:15:36,597 His arms are getting dark, his face is getting dark 284 00:15:36,645 --> 00:15:39,855 and he... 285 00:15:39,898 --> 00:15:43,228 goes to a different place. He was in a different place. 286 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:46,656 And for the first time, I felt afraid of him. 287 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:53,410 What I remember about him describing 288 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:57,923 that attack... 289 00:15:57,957 --> 00:16:00,917 he was kind of driving around maybe thinking about it, 290 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,550 he saw a hitchhiker, 291 00:16:03,588 --> 00:16:06,838 he decided to take the opportunity. 292 00:16:06,883 --> 00:16:10,643 It wasn't quite as deliberate as some of the other ones. 293 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:15,429 And it was very important to him that he knock her out, 294 00:16:15,475 --> 00:16:17,265 because he didn't want her to talk 295 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:19,810 because it ruined the sensation. 296 00:16:19,854 --> 00:16:21,274 If they started to talk, 297 00:16:21,314 --> 00:16:24,484 he would lose his resolve, 298 00:16:24,526 --> 00:16:27,896 and he wanted to remain resolute. 299 00:16:30,073 --> 00:16:32,663 He described taking her into the woods. 300 00:16:32,701 --> 00:16:36,331 He described... 301 00:16:36,371 --> 00:16:40,671 assuring her that he was going to let her go, 302 00:16:40,709 --> 00:16:42,919 and he described saying that he wasn't going to 303 00:16:42,961 --> 00:16:46,971 be able to let her go, to himself, 304 00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:51,176 because he would be caught. 305 00:16:51,219 --> 00:16:53,469 And he would look at me while he was describing it 306 00:16:53,513 --> 00:16:55,063 to kind of see how I was taking it, 307 00:16:55,098 --> 00:17:00,598 to see if he dared go on further without... 308 00:17:00,645 --> 00:17:03,855 me being unable to continue to represent him, really, 309 00:17:03,898 --> 00:17:06,358 is what he was concerned about. 310 00:17:06,401 --> 00:17:10,571 And I... 311 00:17:10,613 --> 00:17:12,913 wanted to show him I could take it, 312 00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:17,329 and so I didn't show my revulsion. 313 00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:21,370 I didn't show my sympathy for the victim 314 00:17:21,416 --> 00:17:24,166 as he told that story. 315 00:17:27,714 --> 00:17:31,014 I had joined forces with... 316 00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:32,050 um... 317 00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:40,440 ...a guilty and remorseless killer. 318 00:17:42,771 --> 00:17:44,691 In an effort to win a stay of execution, 319 00:17:44,731 --> 00:17:47,191 Bundy has begun confessing to many murders 320 00:17:47,233 --> 00:17:48,863 he had previously denied committing. 321 00:17:48,902 --> 00:17:51,242 Bundy confessed to all eight Seattle killings 322 00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:54,529 and 15 more in Oregon, Utah, and Colorado. 323 00:17:54,574 --> 00:17:58,414 He gave police information on dozens of other unsolved cases. 324 00:17:58,453 --> 00:18:00,963 Bundy associates have contacted the governor's office 325 00:18:00,997 --> 00:18:03,997 seeking to delay the execution by three years or more 326 00:18:04,042 --> 00:18:06,632 so that he can tell his story to western police 327 00:18:06,669 --> 00:18:09,049 and solve what may be dozens of murders. 328 00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:10,758 The governor is saying no. 329 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:12,879 He never confessed to Susan, did he? 330 00:18:12,926 --> 00:18:14,756 He wouldn't talk about Sue. 331 00:18:14,803 --> 00:18:17,263 He would talk about the others. 332 00:18:17,305 --> 00:18:21,635 I think at one point there were a couple psychiatrists 333 00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:25,234 that asked him about the different girls, 334 00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:28,651 and when they came to Sue... 335 00:18:28,691 --> 00:18:30,571 he said... 336 00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:33,780 "I don't want to talk about her. 337 00:18:33,822 --> 00:18:35,412 "I can't talk about her." 338 00:18:35,448 --> 00:18:38,448 So... 339 00:18:38,493 --> 00:18:41,043 you know, in my mind, I think she got to him 340 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:43,039 a little bit. 341 00:18:50,755 --> 00:18:52,415 I'd always thought it was very odd 342 00:18:52,465 --> 00:18:55,675 that he didn't reach out to me before he was executed. 343 00:18:55,718 --> 00:18:58,348 I just had a feeling he would, 344 00:18:58,388 --> 00:19:00,968 but he didn't. 345 00:19:01,015 --> 00:19:04,265 My mom had been going through a time 346 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:08,860 of spiritual development where she... 347 00:19:08,898 --> 00:19:13,738 took classes and prayed and meditated, 348 00:19:13,778 --> 00:19:17,278 and I was going to community college. 349 00:19:17,323 --> 00:19:19,123 I had moved back home with my mom, 350 00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:21,448 and I was doing rather well for the first time 351 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:24,624 since this all transpired, 352 00:19:24,664 --> 00:19:26,794 and I came home from school one day 353 00:19:26,833 --> 00:19:31,003 and there was a letter from the jail, 354 00:19:31,045 --> 00:19:34,165 and it wasn't addressed to me, but I opened it anyways. 355 00:19:34,215 --> 00:19:36,755 My mom wasn't at home. 356 00:19:36,801 --> 00:19:39,011 And it said, 357 00:19:39,053 --> 00:19:42,273 "I have found God. 358 00:19:42,307 --> 00:19:45,307 "I've been working on my spirituality." 359 00:19:45,351 --> 00:19:48,771 It was like this person over thousands of miles 360 00:19:48,813 --> 00:19:50,613 had been able to intuit 361 00:19:50,648 --> 00:19:54,028 what she would've wanted to hear. 362 00:19:54,068 --> 00:19:57,948 And there was no way I was gonna let him 363 00:19:57,989 --> 00:20:01,279 have that hook into her again. 364 00:20:01,326 --> 00:20:03,946 There was no way. 365 00:20:03,995 --> 00:20:07,915 So I put it in the fireplace and I set it on fire, 366 00:20:07,957 --> 00:20:12,497 and I never mentioned that it arrived. 367 00:20:12,545 --> 00:20:16,875 She's got a piece of her that responds to him, 368 00:20:16,925 --> 00:20:20,505 and I didn't want to see that piece be exploited again. 369 00:20:20,553 --> 00:20:25,223 I watched that throughout this entire journey. 370 00:20:25,266 --> 00:20:27,516 Florida state officials say Bundy's 371 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,860 last minute appeals are simply acts of desperation. 372 00:20:30,897 --> 00:20:33,397 They call Bundy a master manipulator, 373 00:20:33,441 --> 00:20:36,071 and they vow that despite all his talking, 374 00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:40,320 the state will strike no deal to delay Bundy's execution. 375 00:20:40,365 --> 00:20:42,195 You don't think he'll be executed on Tuesday? 376 00:20:42,241 --> 00:20:44,791 Not if we get a stay. 377 00:20:44,827 --> 00:20:46,907 I've never been a believer in the death penalty. 378 00:20:46,955 --> 00:20:50,665 So it was like I never wanted him to be executed, but... 379 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:54,210 ...not because of who he was, 380 00:20:54,253 --> 00:20:57,723 but just because I don't believe in the death penalty. 381 00:21:02,011 --> 00:21:03,391 I guess I went numb. 382 00:21:03,429 --> 00:21:06,389 I just couldn't really think about it. 383 00:21:06,432 --> 00:21:08,522 My daughter and I spent the day together. 384 00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:12,439 We went to visit a friend up in La Conner, 385 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,980 and we just tried not to... 386 00:21:15,024 --> 00:21:18,154 to tune in to what was going on. 387 00:21:18,194 --> 00:21:21,114 I found the crowds outside the prison, I mean, 388 00:21:21,155 --> 00:21:24,735 it just was really bizarre to me 389 00:21:24,784 --> 00:21:26,744 that they'd be out there cheering. 390 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,930 The execution was scheduled for 7 am, 391 00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:47,310 but we had to be at the prison at 5 am. 392 00:21:47,348 --> 00:21:50,598 And then there's sort of a whole ritual that happens, you know? 393 00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:53,313 There's a... they have a, you know, 394 00:21:53,354 --> 00:21:56,694 a buffet breakfast for the witnesses. 395 00:21:56,733 --> 00:21:59,783 You know, some of the detectives 396 00:21:59,819 --> 00:22:03,529 and, you know, lawyers were there. 397 00:22:03,573 --> 00:22:06,163 You know, it was like a big celebration for them. 398 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,580 You know, they were-- they were finally winning. 399 00:22:08,619 --> 00:22:10,079 At 7 o'clock this morning, 400 00:22:10,121 --> 00:22:12,081 guards led Bundy to the death chamber. 401 00:22:12,123 --> 00:22:13,923 At first, he seemed startled. 402 00:22:13,958 --> 00:22:15,378 He looked taken aback 403 00:22:15,418 --> 00:22:17,798 by the electric chair when he entered the room, 404 00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:19,587 but he immediately regained his composure. 405 00:22:19,630 --> 00:22:22,130 He sat down and started looking around the room, 406 00:22:22,175 --> 00:22:23,835 making eye contact with people. 407 00:22:23,885 --> 00:22:27,345 He acknowledged me, and I acknowledged him, 408 00:22:27,388 --> 00:22:29,598 and I think that settled him down a little bit 409 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,440 when he saw me. 410 00:22:33,478 --> 00:22:37,648 And then, you know, he made his final words, 411 00:22:37,690 --> 00:22:40,860 and they pulled the veil down, 412 00:22:40,902 --> 00:22:42,152 and I looked away. 413 00:22:42,195 --> 00:22:44,235 I mean, I didn't look to see-- 414 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,030 I mean, you could hear what was going on. 415 00:22:46,074 --> 00:22:48,034 You could hear the, you know, the... 416 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:50,696 the electricity, the jolts. 417 00:22:50,745 --> 00:22:53,995 Yeah, I mean, I didn't think it was a good day for 418 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,670 American justice, even though people in Florida thought 419 00:22:57,710 --> 00:22:59,920 that, you know, "This is sort of the pinnacle." 420 00:22:59,962 --> 00:23:02,342 They had, you know, taken out the guy 421 00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:06,471 who they most wanted to execute. 422 00:23:06,511 --> 00:23:11,061 I thought they did it in a way that diminished all of them 423 00:23:11,099 --> 00:23:14,349 and me and everybody else who participated in it. 424 00:23:17,688 --> 00:23:21,478 The signal has now come shortly after 7 o'clock 425 00:23:21,526 --> 00:23:23,356 this morning, Eastern time. 426 00:23:23,402 --> 00:23:26,822 The signal came from the witness window at the facility there 427 00:23:26,864 --> 00:23:30,204 that Ted Bundy had died in the electric chair. 428 00:23:30,243 --> 00:23:31,913 When asked for any final words, 429 00:23:31,953 --> 00:23:33,913 Bundy made only a brief statement. 430 00:23:33,955 --> 00:23:35,115 His last words was just, 431 00:23:35,164 --> 00:23:39,964 "Give my love to my family and to my friends." 432 00:23:40,002 --> 00:23:42,422 One of his attorneys called us 433 00:23:42,463 --> 00:23:45,013 after he'd been executed and said 434 00:23:45,049 --> 00:23:47,339 that Ted had asked her to call us and make sure 435 00:23:47,385 --> 00:23:50,505 that we knew that he loved us, 436 00:23:50,555 --> 00:23:53,215 and she also said he wondered why 437 00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:57,266 I never responded to his last letter. 438 00:23:57,311 --> 00:23:59,401 And, I... 439 00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:03,228 I mean, I didn't know what last letter she was talking about. 440 00:24:03,276 --> 00:24:05,646 So that's when Molly told me there had been a letter 441 00:24:05,695 --> 00:24:08,065 that had come. 442 00:24:08,114 --> 00:24:09,824 You were protecting her, weren't you? 443 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:14,120 I guess I could've lied and said it was lost in the mail, 444 00:24:14,162 --> 00:24:16,162 but I didn't. I told her I burned it. 445 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:19,205 And she accepted it very quietly, 446 00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:23,130 but I could tell it hurt her heart that I had... 447 00:24:23,171 --> 00:24:26,921 robbed her of this closure, 448 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:29,926 this last interaction. 449 00:24:32,096 --> 00:24:34,056 But I wasn't sorry. 450 00:24:34,098 --> 00:24:36,098 I'm not sorry at all. 451 00:24:36,142 --> 00:24:39,352 And I'm especially not sorry that he went to his death 452 00:24:39,395 --> 00:24:42,145 wondering why she never wrote back. 453 00:24:42,190 --> 00:24:43,270 Good. 454 00:24:43,316 --> 00:24:45,396 Maybe she's done with you, you know? 455 00:24:45,443 --> 00:24:48,113 Maybe she's got no interest. 456 00:24:48,154 --> 00:24:51,574 And I'm not sorry for him to... 457 00:24:51,616 --> 00:24:54,786 believe such things at the time of his death. 458 00:24:54,827 --> 00:24:57,537 What were you worried that might have happened 459 00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:59,710 if she'd read the letter? 460 00:24:59,749 --> 00:25:01,919 That she would be distraught, 461 00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:03,919 that she would be connected to him, 462 00:25:03,961 --> 00:25:06,171 that they would then correspond. 463 00:25:06,214 --> 00:25:09,094 That she would grieve his passing 464 00:25:09,133 --> 00:25:13,053 in a very active way. 465 00:25:14,597 --> 00:25:18,727 That he would somehow get his hooks into her. 466 00:25:18,768 --> 00:25:23,728 Yeah, she'd seen that many times before, so... 467 00:25:23,773 --> 00:25:27,243 it wasn't a stretch of her imagination. 468 00:25:30,988 --> 00:25:33,528 When I heard the news that his execution 469 00:25:33,574 --> 00:25:37,204 had gone through... 470 00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:38,495 it was a big let-down. 471 00:25:38,537 --> 00:25:42,247 I didn't feel celebratory. 472 00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:44,671 I didn't feel happy. 473 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:48,550 I didn't feel sad. 474 00:25:48,589 --> 00:25:53,509 I felt compassion for all of the victims and their families. 475 00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:57,472 He was a thief. 476 00:26:01,727 --> 00:26:03,517 We got him. It's over. 477 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:07,362 I mean, it's great. 478 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,820 We heard it on the news; 479 00:26:08,859 --> 00:26:12,069 we heard everything about it, and I remember saying to my dad, 480 00:26:12,113 --> 00:26:14,453 "It's gonna be a good night tonight." 481 00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:15,870 I did, I felt that. 482 00:26:15,908 --> 00:26:19,078 I said a great prayer to Georg, "It's over, baby." 483 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:20,200 You bet. 484 00:26:20,246 --> 00:26:21,456 It was a good night. 485 00:26:21,497 --> 00:26:24,497 I felt real good about it. 486 00:26:24,542 --> 00:26:25,962 Yeah. 487 00:26:33,884 --> 00:26:38,224 He had to be stopped, and that was the only way. 488 00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:40,314 But it was hard for us. 489 00:26:40,349 --> 00:26:42,229 Yeah, there's always a flip side, isn't there? 490 00:26:42,268 --> 00:26:45,058 There's another mother, another family, 491 00:26:45,104 --> 00:26:47,984 and... 492 00:26:48,024 --> 00:26:52,324 the death penalty is controversial... 493 00:26:52,361 --> 00:26:56,071 in our hearts. 494 00:26:56,115 --> 00:26:58,275 It's not as clear-cut as people think, 495 00:26:58,326 --> 00:27:02,116 and when you saw the circus outside the courthouse, 496 00:27:02,163 --> 00:27:03,583 that wasn't us. 497 00:27:03,622 --> 00:27:07,292 We never... That's nothing to celebrate. 498 00:27:07,335 --> 00:27:08,335 No. 499 00:27:08,377 --> 00:27:10,127 This is another loss of life. 500 00:27:10,171 --> 00:27:12,881 Another mother losing a child, 501 00:27:12,923 --> 00:27:14,973 another family with a tragedy. 502 00:27:15,009 --> 00:27:18,929 Another family trying to reckon with a horrific event. 503 00:27:21,807 --> 00:27:24,437 Vivian Rancourt joined the program. 504 00:27:24,477 --> 00:27:26,647 Her daughter, Susan, was killed by Bundy 505 00:27:26,687 --> 00:27:28,437 back in 1974, 506 00:27:28,481 --> 00:27:31,191 and Mrs. Rancourt was asked if she had any words 507 00:27:31,233 --> 00:27:34,283 for Mrs. Bundy. 508 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,160 First of all... 509 00:27:36,197 --> 00:27:38,567 We send hugs to her too. 510 00:27:38,616 --> 00:27:40,236 I talked to her on the phone 511 00:27:40,284 --> 00:27:41,994 the day after the execution. 512 00:27:42,036 --> 00:27:45,036 Well, I've said it before, 513 00:27:45,081 --> 00:27:49,421 and I'm glad to be able to say it directly to one of the moms: 514 00:27:49,460 --> 00:27:52,340 we don't know why this happened, 515 00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:56,840 and we feel so desperately sorry for you. 516 00:27:56,884 --> 00:28:01,394 We didn't want our son to do these things. 517 00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:04,100 We have two beautiful daughters of our own, 518 00:28:04,141 --> 00:28:06,851 and we know how we would feel. 519 00:28:06,894 --> 00:28:09,314 I am sorry. 520 00:28:09,355 --> 00:28:11,315 I know you are. 521 00:28:11,357 --> 00:28:13,727 And we don't hold any resentment 522 00:28:13,776 --> 00:28:17,316 or hatred towards you or your family. 523 00:28:17,363 --> 00:28:19,743 It was just... 524 00:28:19,782 --> 00:28:22,662 two mothers... 525 00:28:22,701 --> 00:28:24,831 that had lost a child, 526 00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:27,330 but she didn't have to apologize. 527 00:28:27,373 --> 00:28:29,463 She didn't do this. 528 00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:31,710 Her son was sick. 529 00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:34,212 You should know that the men in our family 530 00:28:34,255 --> 00:28:35,625 did not feel like we did. 531 00:28:35,673 --> 00:28:37,553 I want to be honest about that. 532 00:28:37,591 --> 00:28:39,761 My Dad, he wanted to slash his balls off. 533 00:28:39,802 --> 00:28:42,812 I mean, my dad was very clear about what he would do 534 00:28:42,847 --> 00:28:47,347 to Ted Bundy if he was left alone with him for a moment. 535 00:28:47,393 --> 00:28:51,233 My husband too, would have just kicked him from here 536 00:28:51,272 --> 00:28:53,022 to hell and back. 537 00:28:53,065 --> 00:28:57,355 No, the men didn't exactly feel the way we did. 538 00:29:01,157 --> 00:29:04,947 I wrote a letter to Vivian Winter and said 539 00:29:04,994 --> 00:29:08,164 how I agonized over her daughter's death 540 00:29:08,205 --> 00:29:10,075 and all these deaths for my whole life, 541 00:29:10,124 --> 00:29:12,294 and how sorry I was that this had happened. 542 00:29:12,334 --> 00:29:14,714 And she wrote me this beautiful letter, 543 00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:18,633 and she said that she felt... 544 00:29:20,593 --> 00:29:24,103 that yes, it was an experience 545 00:29:24,138 --> 00:29:26,968 that's hard to describe how devastating 546 00:29:27,016 --> 00:29:30,136 it actually is to have your child murdered, 547 00:29:30,186 --> 00:29:32,806 but at the same time as the years passed, 548 00:29:32,855 --> 00:29:36,145 she did not want him to take her whole life 549 00:29:36,192 --> 00:29:38,572 away from her... 550 00:29:38,611 --> 00:29:41,911 by allowing her to remain in sadness. 551 00:29:41,947 --> 00:29:44,827 She wanted to go forward and be happy, 552 00:29:44,867 --> 00:29:47,907 and she was feeling happiness, 553 00:29:47,953 --> 00:29:50,213 and she was making a life for herself 554 00:29:50,247 --> 00:29:53,707 that was not controlled by Ted Bundy. 555 00:29:53,751 --> 00:29:57,091 And I so much admired and respected that, 556 00:29:57,129 --> 00:29:59,089 and I took it on. 557 00:29:59,131 --> 00:30:01,551 This is what I want. 558 00:30:01,592 --> 00:30:05,302 We're not going to... 559 00:30:05,346 --> 00:30:07,886 let him... 560 00:30:07,932 --> 00:30:11,642 continue to perpetuate misery. 561 00:30:11,685 --> 00:30:15,475 We're gonna live our lives. 562 00:30:18,692 --> 00:30:21,612 Come on into my abode, my home. 563 00:30:28,661 --> 00:30:32,461 Some things make me really depressed, 564 00:30:32,498 --> 00:30:35,208 in a... 565 00:30:35,251 --> 00:30:38,591 almost debilitating way, where I... 566 00:30:38,629 --> 00:30:40,919 I will sit in this chair for days. 567 00:30:40,965 --> 00:30:42,835 I'll sometimes stay in this camper for two, 568 00:30:42,883 --> 00:30:45,803 three days at a time. 569 00:30:45,844 --> 00:30:47,724 I don't know. 570 00:30:47,763 --> 00:30:51,603 I'm not really afraid of not having a normal life. 571 00:30:51,642 --> 00:30:56,192 I've gotten used to life being kind of a bit of a... 572 00:30:56,230 --> 00:31:00,280 you have to kind of jimmy rig your way through life sometimes. 573 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:04,530 I don't recommend it to everyone 574 00:31:04,572 --> 00:31:07,242 to live your life precariously, 575 00:31:07,283 --> 00:31:09,873 but if I know I have enough to keep shelter and food 576 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:11,580 for my cat and I, 577 00:31:11,620 --> 00:31:15,460 that's the most important thing. 578 00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:32,270 When Ted was executed, 579 00:31:32,308 --> 00:31:35,188 I had been sober for years. 580 00:31:35,227 --> 00:31:39,647 It was probably the thing that saved my life. 581 00:31:43,527 --> 00:31:45,107 I also started hiking a lot, 582 00:31:45,154 --> 00:31:49,874 spent a lot of time out in the woods. 583 00:31:49,908 --> 00:31:54,708 I had a really nice group of sober friends, 584 00:31:54,747 --> 00:31:58,327 so I was putting my life back together. 585 00:32:02,212 --> 00:32:04,132 My daughter and I both have talked about this-- 586 00:32:04,173 --> 00:32:07,723 the fact that we lived is a huge... 587 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,350 I mean, so many people didn't live, 588 00:32:09,386 --> 00:32:12,346 and so when we're struggling to 589 00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:16,889 get our life back on track, it's kind of hard to like say, 590 00:32:16,935 --> 00:32:18,345 "I've got these problems with life," 591 00:32:18,395 --> 00:32:20,105 when we're alive, you know? 592 00:32:20,147 --> 00:32:21,937 It feels like we should be able to-- 593 00:32:21,982 --> 00:32:26,152 that that should be enough, that he did not kill us. 594 00:32:26,195 --> 00:32:31,115 I have watched the parents of women talk about their loss, 595 00:32:31,158 --> 00:32:33,988 and it just breaks my heart. 596 00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:35,826 Because I'm mother of a daughter, 597 00:32:35,871 --> 00:32:39,001 I can understand what a big loss that is. 598 00:32:41,168 --> 00:32:43,378 I mean, as much as I can, 599 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:47,260 I've forgiven myself... 600 00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:51,389 and for me, I'm hoping that this is the end of... 601 00:32:51,428 --> 00:32:54,928 my participation in anything related to Ted. 602 00:33:00,562 --> 00:33:04,862 Recently I had lunch with my niece 603 00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:09,410 who's 12, and she had just, um... 604 00:33:09,446 --> 00:33:11,946 come to understand that I had represented Ted Bundy, 605 00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:13,620 and she came to know him somehow, 606 00:33:13,659 --> 00:33:15,949 and so she was asking me questions about him, 607 00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:18,124 and I was starting my usual talk about, 608 00:33:18,163 --> 00:33:21,543 "Well, the law requires this and that," and... 609 00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:24,503 I really couldn't go on with it, 610 00:33:24,545 --> 00:33:29,465 because all I thought about was as a young 12-year-old girl, 611 00:33:29,508 --> 00:33:33,638 she shouldn't have to think that there is some balancing 612 00:33:33,679 --> 00:33:37,809 between someone who would prey upon her 613 00:33:37,850 --> 00:33:39,770 and something else, 614 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:43,230 that that was something that I would have balanced for her, 615 00:33:43,272 --> 00:33:45,982 on her behalf. 616 00:33:52,656 --> 00:33:56,156 There were times when the rules and regulations 617 00:33:56,201 --> 00:33:59,371 of an organization seemed to preclude 618 00:33:59,413 --> 00:34:01,833 my taking that opportunity, 619 00:34:01,874 --> 00:34:04,004 but I didn't let any of that stand in my way. 620 00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:08,052 I just felt that you just go forward, 621 00:34:08,088 --> 00:34:11,178 see what happens. 622 00:34:22,019 --> 00:34:25,149 One of the things that troubles victims a lot 623 00:34:25,189 --> 00:34:28,439 is the question of, "Why me?" 624 00:34:28,484 --> 00:34:30,284 Why me? 625 00:34:30,319 --> 00:34:33,449 And because of all my experience, 626 00:34:33,489 --> 00:34:37,449 I knew there isn't an answer to that question. 627 00:34:50,672 --> 00:34:54,432 You move on, but it all is still 628 00:34:54,468 --> 00:34:57,888 part of the big weaving of your life. 629 00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:02,020 It becomes part of the fabric, the tapestry of your life, 630 00:35:02,059 --> 00:35:04,979 and it's-- so it's never gone. 631 00:35:05,020 --> 00:35:06,980 You learn how to put it 632 00:35:07,022 --> 00:35:10,902 into some kind of manageable perspective. 633 00:35:59,908 --> 00:36:01,328 Even though I was victimized, 634 00:36:01,368 --> 00:36:04,448 I wasn't a victim, and I mean, my husband knows, 635 00:36:04,496 --> 00:36:07,456 but I've never directly talked to 636 00:36:07,499 --> 00:36:09,959 my own children about it, 637 00:36:10,002 --> 00:36:13,302 because, you know, I'm Mom, so I just don't want to be... 638 00:36:13,338 --> 00:36:15,218 You know, we want to be Mom and Dad. 639 00:36:15,257 --> 00:36:17,587 I mean, I just wanted to do normal things, 640 00:36:17,634 --> 00:36:19,054 be a normal person. 641 00:36:19,094 --> 00:36:23,894 I didn't want to be marked as a victim. 642 00:36:23,932 --> 00:36:25,982 Ever.