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This programme deals with
Eating Disorders

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My friends, my family,
think I'm obsessed with this.

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I mean, they're right. I am.

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I mean, look at this.

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So this - this is, what we're walking
through, is the food environment.

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<font color="

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It's all industrially processed food.

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It's extremely convenient...

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..it's very cheap...

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..and it's so appealing.

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And yet we know that
this food environment

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is driving a catastrophe.

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<font color="
that pre-prepared, packaged,

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highly processed food is linked to
weight gain, obesity, some cancers,

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dementia, type 2 diabetes,

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and early death from all causes.

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We're in the middle of a food crisis,
<font color="

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And if you want to understand why,
you have to go and speak

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to people who have worked inside
the food industry.

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We've worked with Heinz,
Cadbury's, Pringles.

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Bird's Custard.
<font color="

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Unilever.
PepsiCo.

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Kellogg.
Dr Pepper.

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These foods are engineered
to be addictive.

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How have we sleepwalked
into this situation?

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What is the food we eat today
<font color="

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And how has it become
so irresistible?

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Britain will be left a sick
and impoverished nation,

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according to former
government food tsar,

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if we don't do something
about our junk food habit.

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<font color="

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I'm an NHS doctor, I'm a scientist,

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and I'm part of a growing group
of doctors and academics

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who are increasingly worried
about the effect that

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the global food system
is having on all of us.

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<font color="
that we've understood the problem

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is it's a failure of willpower.

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People are just making bad choices.

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They're somewhat lazy.

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It's basically their fault.

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This is American government data for
<font color="

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the different lines are
different ages - for obesity.

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What you see is between
1960 and 1975,

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there's a fairly steady percentage
of obesity in the population.

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But in the mid-1970s,
<font color="

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in all of the groups simultaneously.

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Now, if you're saying
willpower is responsible,

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what you're proposing is that all of
these groups of people simultaneously

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lost moral responsibility,
and that's not plausible.

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<font color="
to our food in the mid-1970s

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to make it irresistible to people.

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Good afternoon. How are you?

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My name is Howard Moskowitz.

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I'm an experimental psychologist.

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And in the 1970s,
people think that I revolutionised

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<font color="

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I'd like to talk to you about
the way the science came about.

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You know, you read all the time
in the newspapers -

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it's a sinister plot,
generally by one or two scientists

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in a laboratory,
<font color="

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"How should we make the people
of the world fat?"

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Well, let me tell you
my own history.

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I was called by the vice chairman
of Campbell's Soup,

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and they said to me,

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<font color="
which manufactures ragu."

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They used to make it out of
Peasant tomato paste and water,

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like my mother did in the '50s.

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I said, "I think you can make
a better pasta sauce."

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And they said, "How?"

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<font color="
the actual food ingredients

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"that you can blend, and let's
make different combinations,

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"and we'll test them."

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And we ended up creating 45 dishes,

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and we got people to taste them
<font color="

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I realised very simply
that if you systematically

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varied the ingredients
and you tested them,

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nature would reveal itself
in stunning clarity.

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So this is the origin of the bliss
<font color="

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The easiest way to demonstrate
a bliss point

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is add sugar to coffee.

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As you add more and more sugar,

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you like it more and more
up to a certain point,

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and then you like it less and less.

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<font color="
where you like it most.

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That's the bliss point...

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..where you have the bliss.

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And that became the basis

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of a multi-billion dollar
30-year run.

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I found that I could consult
<font color="

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Pepsi Cola, Tropicana,

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Dr Pepper, and Spam.

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Sales almost always go up

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because you're making
a delicious product

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and you know that people love it.

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Very simple.

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But over the years,

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<font color="
and more artificial.

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The road to hell
is paved with good intentions.

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From the 1970s,
food companies started to realise

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that if they used proper scientific
development processes,

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<font color="

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My name is John Ruff, and I've spent
40 years in the food industry

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across seven different countries.

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Companies spend a lot of time
optimising all aspects

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of their product - the flavour,
<font color="

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People want their product
to be as good,

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if not better, than the competitor,
so it will sell more.

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In research and development, we used
to use a phrase called the funnel.

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And the funnel was the
<font color="

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You need 100 products to be in
what's called advanced development.

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You need 1,000 in early development.

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You need 10,000 ideas.

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Often those ideas don't
get off the drawing board,

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don't get off the paper,

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<font color="
prototypes or mock-ups.

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OK, seats numbers 1 to 14, you'll
be now testing the Midget Gems.

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We use trained sensory panels
to give us ratings.

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Is it squishy? Is it hard?

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Is it soft? Is it crunchy?

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<font color="
the food industry operates.

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The food company really almost
has to sort of provide products

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that consumers want, otherwise
they will go out of business.

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I've spoken to lots of people
who work at food companies,

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<font color="
about these tasting panels.

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Two of the most important things
that are measured

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are how quickly do people eat,

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and how much of the food
do people eat?

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Because that's what drives sales.

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<font color="
have a subjective element,

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so some companies started
taking it much further.

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One of my remits
when I first joined the company

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was the way that
they would get information,

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<font color="
word of mouth.

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It would be focus groups,
it would be questionnaires,

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and I just railed
against that stuff.

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I'm a neuroscientist.

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I introduced brain scanning
to Unilever.

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<font color="
talking to a consumer.

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I want to find out what they like
by digging deeper,

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because we're not really aware
of why we like what we like.

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And one way to get that is with
the neuroimaging capabilities.

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<font color="
lie someone in a brain scanner

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and feed food into their mouth.

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And we looked at the activity
that was coming into that brain.

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And one study that we did
was feeding people

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in one of these brain scanners
<font color="

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And what we found is that
this area right at the front

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of the brain here - it's called
the orbitofrontal cortex,

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and it's a reward system area,

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and it was glowing like a furnace.

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You're looking at what the brain
<font color="

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You can't fudge it.

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And it's grown and grown and grown
as a way to predict

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what product is going to be
successful and what isn't.

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And the ice cream business
used that brain imaging data

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<font color="
ice cream makes you happy.

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And this is the article
that was in the newspapers.

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Slightly unfortunate that
it's got an obesity thing.

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Yes.

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HE LAUGHS

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This is contrast, isn't it?

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<font color="

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You can edit that out, can't you?

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The brain scans predicted

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which foods people would like
or which ones they'd love,

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but they also helped to show
something about those foods

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that would be really crucial
<font color="

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If you want to sell a lot of food,
texture is massively important.

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One thing many people don't realise
is that factory processing

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changes the textural properties
of that food.

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Now, that makes the food
<font color="

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And an interesting fact
about soft food

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is you're not chewing it as much.

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That actually short-circuits
the normal satiety mechanisms

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that you would have if you were
actually chewing food properly.

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<font color="
put some work into chewing -

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so a crunchy carrot - is having
that benefit in terms of the fact

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you're spending a lot more time
chewing it.

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With a soft food, you don't do that.

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So you're bypassing
<font color="

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that tells you that you're full.

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Once you've worked out that playing
around with the texture of a food,

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making it softer, tricks that normal
satiety or fullness mechanism,

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clearly there's an opportunity there

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<font color="
scurrilous behaviour

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in making food softer
so that people will eat more,

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and therefore you sell
more of your product.

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So there is an opportunity there,
of course, you know, to basically...

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<font color="
shall I say?

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So much of the packaged food
that we eat is incredibly soft.

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My kids love these.

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You don't typically think
of this as being a soft food,

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because it's a bit crunchy,

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<font color="
after that initial crunch,

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you can just crush it
with your tongue, right?

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It's got no resistance at all.

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But in terms of the
calories per gram,

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it's got way more calories
<font color="

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So the softness and
the energy density

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mean that you consume it
incredibly quickly.

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And there's a food industry term
for these

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very light, puffy foods
that melt in the mouth.

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<font color="
vanishing caloric density.

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Gone.

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The thing that makes us eat a lot
isn't just what we do to the food.

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It's also about logos, marketing,

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branding, the box the food comes in.

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Here we've got a very crinkly
<font color="

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The noise is quite loud.

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Extraordinary.

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Of course that's going to make
you think, "Fresh, fresh, fresh."

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I'm Professor Barry Smith.

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I work on sensory science with
neuroscientists and psychologists.

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<font color="

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It's in their slogan.

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When I worked for Pringles,

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they were really worried
<font color="

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and they were trying to think
of ways to innovate.

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And one idea was,
"Let's make the tube bigger

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"so that we can get
our whole hand in there."

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And I said, "No, no, no, no,
<font color="

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People like struggling
to get their hand in.

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They're like foraging bears.

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They're trying to extract the food

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and that searching out
something to eat,

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that's increasing your desire.

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CRUNCHING

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<font color="
experience.

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There's the look of the food.

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There's the smell of the food.

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There's the feeling of the food
on your fingers.

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Even the sound of food matters.

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When you open a fizzy soda,
<font color="

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You've got the click and the tear.

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Sound engineers and manufacturers

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work really hard to get
that sound just right.

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And that's sonic branding.

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Many companies have asked me
to work on sonic branding for them,

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<font color="
when I was working with Kellogg,

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they said,
"Ooh, what's sonic branding?"

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And I said, "You invented this!"

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Most people will remember,
as children,

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the experience of lifting a bowl
<font color="

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And what are they listening for?

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Snap, Crackle, and Pop.

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That's sonic branding at its best,

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00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,680
and that's the original.

252
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,120

Pop into your morning.

253
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,080
Look at all this.

254
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,200
<font color="
branding to grab our attention.

255
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,160
It's salt, fat, sugar
wrapped up in appealing packages.

256
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,480
We've got cartoon characters.

257
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,200
There are tigers. There are monkeys.

258
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,800
There are bright colours everywhere.

259
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,720
<font color="
industry had to change

260
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,640
the culture of how we eat,
the number of times a day we eat,

261
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,000
and this is called snackification.

262
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,160
I am Dr Yanaina Chavez Ugalde.

263
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,560
I am currently a research associate
<font color="

264
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,480
I trained as a food engineer
in Mexico and I worked for Cargill.

265
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,520
It's a company that makes
most of the raw ingredients

266
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,800
that go into processed foods.

267
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,840
Name it - flour, sugar, oil,

268
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,800
high-fructose corn syrup, cocoa.

269
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,440
<font color="
I started to see an influx

270
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,800
of packaged products from the USA
into Mexico.

271
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,000
I started to see my peers
getting bigger.

272
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,000
I started to hear about diseases
like type 2 diabetes,

273
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,640
<font color="

274
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,880
I started to ask questions about,

275
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,480
what is our impact as a food company
in the health of our nation?

276
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,480
And that's why I changed careers.

277
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,920
There's a lot of competition
out there,

278
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,200
and food companies make their money

279
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,760
<font color="
we consume from them.

280
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,760
So there's a stomach share
that they're fighting for,

281
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,960
and there are hours in the day

282
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,120
in between breakfast,
lunch, and dinner.

283
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:03,800
What happens between those hours?

284
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,680
<font color="

285
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,880
ALARM BEEPS

286
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,680
You wake up and
this is what you have.

287
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,000
Snack number one -

288
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,760
breakfast shake, ultra-processed.

289
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,440
This is heavily marketed
for you to have on the go -

290
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,839
<font color="
to crunch through something.

291
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,119
Snack number two of the day.

292
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,240
It's empty calories.

293
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,880
Energy-dense, nutrient-poor.

294
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,640
Midday, you're starting to get
a little bit peckish,

295
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,200
and what do you have?

296
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,040
<font color="

297
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,160
This is a good example of a
health claim snacking product.

298
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,000
Whereas before we would
have had food, actual food,

299
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,040
now we are marketed into believing

300
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,120
that this is actually
a healthy replacement.

301
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,760
<font color="
been made to be linked

302
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,320
with being physically active.

303
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,800
So after the gym, I have a
high-protein, low-sugar bar

304
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,960
instead of having
a healthier option.

305
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,040
You finish having dinner
<font color="

306
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,080
that are sold to you
as "more to share,"

307
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,240
where, in fact, you can just finish
them watching the TV by yourself.

308
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,720
I do like them
and I cannot stop eating them.

309
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,120
SHE LAUGHS

310
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,120
<font color="

311
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:23,480
Oh, God.

312
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,320
If you're a food company,

313
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,960
there are two main ways
you can make more money.

314
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,200
You can sell more food,
so you can grab more stomach share,

315
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,040
or you can use cheaper ingredients.

316
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,600
<font color="
for the food industry

317
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,160
for nearly 20 years.

318
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,880
And now I really want to

319
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,360
lift the lid on how
food industry marketing

320
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:08,320
is robbing us of our health.

321
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,280
The first time I really started
<font color="

322
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,160
about the food industry
was when Sunny Delight came out.

323
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,520
Sunny Delight...

324
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,520
It was sold as great
for all the family.

325
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,240
Any more?
Coming right up.

326
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,480
Thanks, Mum.

327
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,840
<font color="

328
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,200
On your bike!

329
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,520
And when I looked
at the ingredients,

330
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,440
I realised this was
a really cheap product

331
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,240
which had been dressed up
to be something healthy.

332
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,720
And I think that's where
<font color="

333
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,920
So the main thing that I worked on
were modified starches,

334
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,600
and these were really,
really clever.

335
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,880
They can make snack foods
crunchy and crispy,

336
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,360
and they can make yoghurts creamy

337
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,320
<font color="

338
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,640
When we eat starch in a whole food,

339
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,520
it's digested slowly.

340
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,240
But if that same starch
is highly processed,

341
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,960
then it's broken down
very quickly by the body,

342
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,280
and it spikes our blood sugar.

343
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,080
<font color="
a whole host of health problems

344
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,800
and also to our body storing fat.

345
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,080
One of the starches
that I worked on,

346
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,200
you could add it to a jam,
for example,

347
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:37,800
and it would give the sensory
<font color="

348
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,800
without it actually being
a strawberry.

349
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,880
Fruit is expensive.

350
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,760
It's difficult to handle.

351
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,880
It spoils quickly.
It's expensive to transport.

352
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:56,200
So it's kind of padding out products
<font color="

353
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,320
but which mimics the real stuff.

354
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,520
We develop food and beverage
products for companies of all sizes,

355
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,120
so we've worked with
Heinz, Cadbury's, Pringles,

356
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:22,480
Green and Black's Chocolate.

357
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,520
Cost is such a big focus
<font color="

358
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,000
from the ingredients,
the manufacturing, the shipping,

359
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,040
and then from distributors
to retailers.

360
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,200
Everybody wants to make a profit.
They want to make a margin.

361
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,000
Here are the ingredients
<font color="

362
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,760
a home-made lemon cake.

363
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,960
We've got lemons, unsurprisingly,

364
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,680
flour, sugar, butter, eggs,

365
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,360
some bicarbonate of soda,
and some salt.

366
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,080
But if you're going to make it
in a factory,

367
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,760
<font color="
that we need to consider.

368
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,760
And so I have here a slightly
longer list of ingredients...

369
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,960
More than double. ..that you might
see in a cake from a supermarket.

370
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,680
One of the main considerations
<font color="

371
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,960
Of course, yeah. Because
your lovely home-made recipe,

372
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,760
you're talking days...
Exactly.

373
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,320
..before it starts to go mouldy
and just frankly, stale. Yeah.

374
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,160
<font color="

375
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,880
is going to need months
of shelf life. Exactly.

376
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,080
You'll see here, we've got potassium
sorbate as one of the preservatives,

377
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,720
and that is to inhibit the growth
of mould and yeasts

378
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,600
<font color="

379
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,080
It's quite bitter, a bit like biting
on a paracetamol or something.

380
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,640
And so some of the ways that
you might mask some of these

381
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,600
bitter tastes might be with
the flavouring, for one, the salt.

382
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,080
<font color="
that you can't ignore

383
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,160
with an ingredient list like this
is how much cheaper it will be.

384
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,800
Across the board, we're substituting

385
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,120
rich ingredients like eggs
and butter with cheaper ones,

386
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:02,000
but also some of the ingredients
<font color="

387
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,480
Yeah. It's all allowing you
to use cheaper ingredients.

388
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,480
If you sit in my clinic,
if you work in this hospital,

389
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,440
you see the toll that diet-related
diseases takes on our patients.

390
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040
<font color="
that the cause of the pandemic

391
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,280
of obesity and diet-related disease
that's sweeping the globe

392
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,760
is industrially processed,
packaged foods.

393
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:59,680
Previously, describing these goods
was really hard scientifically.

394
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,360
<font color="

395
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:07,280
And then a little while ago,
a friend gave me this paper.

396
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,640
It's published in an obscure
Brazilian public health journal.

397
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,680
It says,
"A new classification of foods

398
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,000
"based on the extent and purpose
<font color="

399
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,880
Not an appealing read,
so I ignored it,

400
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,840
left it on the desk for weeks.

401
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,280
But I eventually got around
to reading it.

402
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,000
And I thought, if it's true,
this might be the most important

403
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,520
<font color="
so far this century.

404
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,200
Carlos Monteiro was proposing
something really radical.

405
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,600
Previously, we'd focused on
sugar, saturated fat, and salt

406
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,360
as being the problem.

407
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:23,720
And he said, "Well, maybe
<font color="

408
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,200
"that is making us all
eat a lot of these

409
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,080
"and having maybe other effects
as well."

410
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,080
We've been doing food processing
for thousands,

411
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,360
probably hundreds
of thousands of years,

412
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,400
<font color="
where we take whole food

413
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,080
and we smoke it, we salt it,
we preserve it, we ferment it.

414
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,480
It's essential for human life.

415
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,600
Ultra-processed food
is entirely different.

416
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,680
And the full definition is very long,

417
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,040
<font color="
you're eating is ultra-processed,

418
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,560
look at the ingredients list.

419
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,280
And if you see things that
you wouldn't expect to find

420
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,480
in a home kitchen, then it's
probably an ultra-processed food.

421
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,960
<font color="
it seemed really important,

422
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,800
but I had some doubts,
and I wasn't the only one.

423
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Lots of people were very sceptical
about it.

424
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,960
My name is Dr Kevin Hall.

425
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,080
I'm a senior investigator here
<font color="

426
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,920
I first heard about this idea
of ultra-processed foods,

427
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,960
which basically says that nutrients
aren't important at all.

428
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,720
It's really about the extent
and purpose of processing,

429
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,840
<font color="
because we have

430
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,920
a whole history of nutrition
science, focusing on nutrients.

431
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,040
And then along comes Carlos
and says, you know,

432
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,840
"You've been focusing on the wrong
thing for the past several decades."

433
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,760
<font color="
of our dieticians

434
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,840
here at the NIH Clinical Center,

435
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,680
and I gave them what I thought was
maybe an impossible task -

436
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,360
"Can you design two diets?

437
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,320
"In one case, all of the foods
come from minimally processed foods.

438
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,440
<font color="
an ultra-processed diet

439
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,600
"that is matched for the salt,
the sugar, the fat, the fibre."

440
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,000
And the idea of the study
was to bring 20 men and women

441
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,680
into the Clinical Center, where
they would live with us for a month.

442
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,360
<font color="
or less.

443
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,080
We'd take complete control
over their food environment

444
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,960
and present them with meals
and very simple instructions -

445
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,520
"Just eat as much
or as little as you'd like."

446
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,440
<font color="

447
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,600
at the end of each of the meals,
we were measuring their leftovers.

448
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,720
He ate most of the tater tots.

449
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,960
The dieticians downstairs
will actually weigh it back,

450
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,680
and we'll know the exact quantity
that's left over.

451
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,240
<font color="
their weights every day.

452
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,000
We were measuring how many
calories their bodies were burning,

453
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,960
their oxygen consumption,
their carbon dioxide production.

454
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,000
My hypothesis going in
was that we would see

455
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,480
<font color="
number of calories people ate.

456
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,360
And of course, I was wrong.

457
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,040
It turned out that the people,

458
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,480
when they were on
the ultra-processed diet,

459
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,280
they spontaneously overate calories,
about 500 calories per day

460
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,360
<font color="
on the minimally processed diet.

461
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,840
I'm going to take your temperature,
if that's all right. Sure.

462
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,600
What we discovered was that
the ultra-processed foods,

463
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,680
despite being matched
<font color="

464
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,840
they tended to have
many more calories per bite.

465
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,200
Another thing that we found
was that we ended up preparing

466
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,520
and presenting people with foods
that were high in sugar and fat.

467
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,160
That's something that's very rare
<font color="

468
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,200
These are so-called
hyperpalatable foods,

469
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,160
and we ended up presenting
people with more of those

470
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,000
hyperpalatable foods
on the ultra-processed diet.

471
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,320
At the time it was published,
<font color="

472
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,200
was so important because
it was really good quality evidence

473
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,000
that ultra-processed food
does make you eat too much of it.

474
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Now it's just one scientific paper

475
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,440
in a huge and rapidly growing
body of evidence.

476
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,160
<font color="
with this kind of food

477
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,000
is that so many of us
struggle to stop eating it.

478
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,600
APPLAUSE

479
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,720
Hi, everyone.

480
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,760
I'm so thrilled to be here today
to speak with you on my research

481
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,200
<font color="
between addictive substances

482
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,800
and ultra-processed food.

483
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,960
I'm Dr Ashley Gearhardt.

484
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,480
I'm a professor of psychology
at the University of Michigan

485
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,480
and the director of the Food and
Addiction Science and Treatment lab.

486
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,120
<font color="
on the same neural reward centre,

487
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,520
so it really seems to be
hyperpalatable food products

488
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,480
that kind of mimic
the reward profile

489
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,400
that we see with addictive drugs.

490
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,040
When we look at the sorts of foods

491
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,600
<font color="
indicators of addiction,

492
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,600
it's really clear what it's not.

493
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,360
It's not minimally processed foods,

494
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,480
like fruits or vegetables or beans,

495
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,880
or lean meats, like chicken breasts.

496
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,800
It's really processed foods
<font color="

497
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,280
of refined carbohydrates
like sugars and starches,

498
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,880
typically alongside
high levels of fat.

499
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,320
It's chocolate, it's ice cream,
it's pizza.

500
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,760
It's foods that don't exist
in nature.

501
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,760
<font color="
was try and understand

502
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,800
how do we identify someone
who might actually

503
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,040
be experiencing an addiction?

504
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,600
So we created the
Yale Food Addiction Scale,

505
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,080
which is the major tool used

506
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,520
<font color="
to ultra-processed food.

507
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,840
We've really looked at
the diagnostic criteria

508
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,920
that we use to diagnose somebody
with an alcohol addiction,

509
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,040
a tobacco addiction, asking people
about their experiences

510
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,480
<font color="
really intense cravings,

511
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,080
continuing to use even though you're
having really negative consequences.

512
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,920
"When I started
to eat certain foods,

513
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,760
"I ate much more than planned."

514
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Yes, every day.

515
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400
<font color="

516
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,120
and I'm a food addict.

517
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,760
Processed food has this control
over me.

518
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,280
I don't want to binge
on a bowl of broccoli.

519
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,680
It's the crap food.
There's something in it.

520
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,400
And I've struggled with
<font color="

521
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400
and the parallels are too similar
for there not to be a link.

522
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,280
Most people in my position
binge in the evenings.

523
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,400
I will start with cereal,
and it's always really sweet cereal,

524
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,600
<font color="

525
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,199
I would pour as much of that
into a mixing bowl -

526
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,719
not a normal bowl, a mixing bowl -

527
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,719
and start with that.

528
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,159
You're talking, you are talking
a box of cereal

529
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:30,000
<font color="
of chocolates,

530
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,600
and a couple of packets
of biscuits -

531
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,960
way more food than you'd think
a person could eat.

532
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,480
Then after that, it's just about
how quickly can I purge it?

533
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,800
By purging,
<font color="

534
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,440
I'm an intelligent person.

535
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,400
I'm a fitness fanatic.

536
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,920
I know that my bingeing behaviour
is really bad for me

537
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:03,400
and could end in heart attacks
and diabetes and all sorts of stuff.

538
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,000
That's why I know it's an addiction,
<font color="

539
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,160
I don't care.

540
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,320
So I wanted to give you
a bit of a sense of the people

541
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,720
who've come into our lab.

542
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:18,600
This individual had severe food
addiction, and they said,

543
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,680
"I can't even be in the same room
<font color="

544
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,600
"because I will finish a dozen
all by myself, and I'm a type..."

545
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,960
The potency and the reward power
of these ultra-processed foods

546
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,440
can trigger an addictive response
that leads them to consume these

547
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,800
<font color="
even if they want to cut down,

548
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,120
even if they know it's killing them,
they find they can't stop.

549
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,240
We have to eat to live.

550
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:50,840
So giving up drugs, you just
quit completely and that's it.

551
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:56,600
But how do you stop
<font color="

552
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,520
It's everywhere you go.

553
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,640
Food addiction is a growing
field of study.

554
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,520
There are lots of people
who have well-founded concerns

555
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,920
about demonising an entire category
of food, and I understand that.

556
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,160
<font color="
really hard to disagree

557
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,160
with the testimony of many
of my patients,

558
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,880
who feel that they are addicted
to these products.

559
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,040
You have to make products
taste palatable,

560
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,280
<font color="
palatability has been turned into,

561
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,560
"Well, it's too good.
It's addictive. It's too tasty."

562
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,400
I mean, is there a point
at which you can make a food taste

563
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,880
good enough that people will eat it,

564
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,000
<font color="
to be called hyper-palatable?

565
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Yeah, but you know what?

566
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,880
If somebody makes the
hyper-palatable one,

567
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,680
they'll stop eating the other one
anyway.

568
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,680
We have to make products
<font color="

569
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,800
People want that.

570
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,920
We're not going to mandate

571
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,520
that everybody's got
to make their food taste bad,

572
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:04,720
I don't think.

573
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:06,520
It's not a world I want to be in.

574
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,880
We have a growing body of evidence
<font color="

575
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,720
this food is addictive.

576
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,520
And that makes me think about
the tobacco industry.

577
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,920
Laura Schmidt.

578
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,520
I'm a professor at UC San Francisco
in the School of Medicine.

579
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,440
I'd been working on ultra-processed
<font color="

580
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,480
and one of my colleagues said, "Hey,
you know, I've been poking around

581
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,120
"in the tobacco archive, and
I know you're interested in food.

582
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,440
"You might want to check these out.

583
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,000
And it turns out that there
<font color="

584
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,120
of documents in the tobacco archive
about food companies.

585
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,240
From the 1960s, RJ Reynolds,
the tobacco company,

586
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:17,200
starts buying up food subsidiaries.

587
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:23,600
Why would a giant tobacco company
buy up a food company?

588
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520
<font color="
we did not expect.

589
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,280
The people in the tobacco companies
had a bunch of artificial colours

590
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,200
and flavours, developed in their
labs, that they were making

591
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,960
to add to cigarettes,
flavours and colours like menthol.

592
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040
<font color="
to put into cigarettes

593
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,360
and create different products
to target new consumers.

594
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,040
They call them line extensions.

595
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,240


596
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,920


597
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,720
Virginia Sick,
<font color="

598
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,400
Marlboro, for men who are
couch potatoes

599
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,240
but actually want to be cowboys.

600
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,840


601
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,800


602
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,760
They were targeting children.

603
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:29,840
<font color="
RJ Reynolds put on Camel cigarettes

604
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,000
because they really wanted
to make kids know the brand

605
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,160
so that, when they became cigarette
consumers, they would smoke Camels.

606
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,960
One survey found six-year-olds
<font color="

607
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,040
Joe the Camel as with Mickey Mouse.

608
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:50,720
The tobacco industry had cultivated
this strategy of taking a single,

609
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,520
utterly boring product
and making it come alive

610
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,480
with colours, flavours, branding,
marketing, cartoon mascots,

611
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,920
<font color="
consumer markets.

612
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,960
And we found this memo,
and this memo was written in 1962,

613
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:14,720
by the guy who ran the labs,
to the CEO of RJ Reynolds.

614
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:19,960
And he literally says here, "It's
easy to characterise RJ Reynolds

615
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,160
<font color="

616
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,000
"In a broader and much less
restricting sense, however,

617
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,120
"RJ Reynolds is in
the flavour business."

618
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,360
And here, he's talking about
a merger with a company called

619
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,840
Pacific Hawaiian Products Company.

620
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,480
<font color="
and that's Hawaiian Punch.

621
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,760
Hawaiian Punch was one flavour
and one colour.

622
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,080
It was bright red,
and it was being marketed to adults.

623
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,520
And within a couple of years,
they had transformed this product

624
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,320
<font color="

625
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,760
Hey, how about a nice
Hawaiian Punch? Sure!

626
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,880

its punch?

627
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,240


628
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:20,840
They intuitively understood that
getting the kid hooked was the goal,

629
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,920
<font color="
a lifelong consumer.

630
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,960
What's so brilliant
about the marketing strategy

631
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:33,880
is you can take that tobacco model
and apply it to the food industry.

632
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,520
You can make massive numbers
of line extensions.

633
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,320
<font color="

634
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,000
Very sophisticated advertising
campaigns that allow you to kind of

635
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,360
get inside the minds of consumers

636
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,160
and make them want
what you have to sell.

637
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,640
We know that people in food
companies were putting people

638
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,600
<font color="
goes on in the brain when people

639
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,160
are exposed to the food products
that they were developing.

640
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,000
Whether or not they intended to make
all of these foods addictive,

641
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,560
I don't know.

642
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:21,160
What we can say is that, if
<font color="

643
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,520
owned by a tobacco company,
there's a stronger likelihood

644
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,200
that it has been developed
to make you want more.

645
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,840
The biggest cigarette companies
in the world were also

646
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,200
the biggest food companies.

647
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,280
<font color="

648
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,760
And of course, over decades,
the tobacco industry perfected

649
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,640
the techniques for denying
any of their products were addictive.

650
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,440
Hi, I'm Steve Parrish.

651
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,920
Today, we're going to set
the record straight.

652
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,480
<font color="
a person's mood

653
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,280
nor do they impair an individual's
ability to function.

654
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,520
Those people who term smoking
an addiction

655
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,800
do so for political and ideological,
not scientific reasons.

656
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,560
<font color="
from Altria Group Inc,

657
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,880
formerly known as Philip Morris,
the tobacco company,

658
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,760
where I was the senior Vice
President of corporate affairs.

659
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,440
In the early 1990s, there was
really a sea change in attitudes

660
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,840
<font color="
in the United States,

661
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,600
and it seemed like it was
the year of the perfect storm.

662
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,000
In 1994, when there
were Congressional hearings...

663
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,760
Please consider yourself
to be under oath.

664
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,240
<font color="
of the various tobacco companies,

665
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,560
do you believe cigarette smoking
is addictive?

666
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,240
Do you believe nicotine
is not addictive?

667
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,200
I believe nicotine is not
addictive, yes.

668
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,400
<font color="
clearly do not meet the classic

669
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,960
definitions of addiction.

670
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,000
I don't believe that nicotine
or our products are addictive.

671
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,080
I believe nicotine is not addictive.

672
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,320
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.

673
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,120
<font color="
is not addictive.

674
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,960
And I too believe that nicotine
is not addictive.

675
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,880
At the end of a two-day hearing,
the expert committee decided

676
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,040
that, yes, cigarette smoking
is addictive.

677
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,640
<font color="
our company, Philip Morris,

678
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,920
decided to change its position
and acknowledge the fact

679
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,240
that cigarette smoking is addictive.

680
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,880
When our company made
that announcement,

681
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,120
it caused quite a stir,
<font color="

682
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,240
when we announced that we were
in favour of

683
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:06,040
the Food and Drug Administration
regulating the tobacco industry.

684
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:13,480
When Philip Morris companies saw
that there was a continual decline,

685
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,000
year over year over year,
<font color="

686
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,360
it just made sense for the company
to look beyond tobacco.

687
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,920
And there were similarities
in the products, not in terms

688
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,640
of the products themselves,
but where they were bought and sold,

689
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,680
grocery stores, convenience stores,
<font color="

690
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,840
Yeah, you know, I don't know
the answer to that question.

691
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,520
I don't know whether
specific food products

692
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,240
would meet that definition
of addiction.

693
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:53,720
I would leave that to people
<font color="

694
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:55,840
and studied the science there.

695
00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:01,280
I don't know whether any companies
would admit addiction

696
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,440
of a particular food product,
but I would hope that the companies

697
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:11,320
would listen to the science
<font color="

698
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,360
I think right now we are,
with ultra-processed food,

699
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,800
a bit like where we were in the '60s
with cigarettes.

700
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,200
And, in my opinion, the food industry
is using many of the same techniques

701
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,640
<font color="
to protect their interests,

702
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,320
and lots of scientists
have experienced this first-hand.

703
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,000
I'm Dana Small.
I'm a neuroscientist.

704
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:54,000
I'm interested in how the brain
and the body work together

705
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,760
<font color="

706
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,640
Pepsi came to us and they were
interested to know

707
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,160
whether they could reduce
the amount of sugar in beverages

708
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,960
to make healthier drinks.

709
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,920
Now, to keep the calories down,
you might add some artificial

710
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,880
<font color="
the sweetness,

711
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,480
but without getting the calories.

712
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,960
So we designed this study where
we had five different beverages,

713
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,000
and they had different
amounts of calories,

714
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,080
but we wanted them
<font color="

715
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,960
So we used sweetener,
which doesn't have any calories.

716
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,480
Yeah, this is not very elegant,
but in she goes.

717
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,640
Sorry.

718
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,640
She'll actually be in there
receiving little tastes

719
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,480
<font color="
and then swallowing and then waiting

720
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,360
for the next flavour to come.

721
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,200
When you look at brain responses
to these different flavours,

722
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,760
you can see the dopamine
and reward system.

723
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,160
And what we found
<font color="

724
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,480
We actually didn't see a negative
impact of just drinking, like,

725
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:03,880
a diet drink.

726
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,240
But when we had a diet drink
and we added calories...

727
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,520
..that's when we saw changes.

728
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:18,680
So, for example, it's OK
<font color="

729
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,320
But if you have the diet soda
with French fries,

730
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,680
you're going to have artificial
sweeteners and carbohydrates,

731
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,720
and that's when you're going to
get into trouble.

732
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,560
There's a lot we don't understand
<font color="

733
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,520
in very simple terms, if you put
a sweet taste on the tongue,

734
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,040
it signals to your body
that sugar is on the way.

735
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,200
And if sugar doesn't then arrive,

736
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,720
that seems to have several
unexpected effects on the body,

737
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,960
<font color="

738
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,480
If the effect we've observed
generalises, then it follows

739
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,880
that consuming diet food
can actually lead to weight gain,

740
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,200
rather than weight loss. Now, that
needs to be tested experimentally,

741
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,120
<font color="
to that prediction.

742
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,000
We were discovering something
pretty important

743
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,680
and, rather than being able
to continue with this,

744
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,640
PepsiCo dropped us.

745
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,120
We're experimenting.

746
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,840
<font color="

747
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,440
But during this process,
you could discover something

748
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,040
that is harmful.

749
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,440
So that leaves them vulnerable
to lawsuits,

750
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,040
which is exactly what happened
in the tobacco industry.

751
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,160
<font color="
any link between body mass index

752
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,120
and consumption
of ultra-processed foods.

753
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,520
Melissa Mialon found that, out of 38
papers questioning the science

754
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,000
around ultra-processed food,

755
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,480
33 of them had authors with
<font color="

756
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,880
So the food industry exerts its
influence in a lot of subtle ways,

757
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,160
and I've had personal experience
of some of these.

758
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,560
The companies have been very,
very keen to get in touch with me,

759
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,640
<font color="
and presentations,

760
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,280
to fly across the Atlantic.

761
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:33,480
Most of the time, I say no.

762
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,920
In one instance, I thought,
"Well, let me get the contract

763
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,800
"and see how all this looks."

764
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,160
Is this a really well-known
<font color="

765
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:44,760
So this is one of the big...

766
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,080
Yeah, this is a big food company.

767
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:51,600
So I got a contract,
and they offered me about £20,000

768
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,040
for a two-hour meeting.

769
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,440
And I cannot understand
why they want to pay me,

770
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,680
<font color="
understand this.

771
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,320
So here's the relevant bit.

772
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,440
It says that I will not make
any statement as shall disparage

773
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,480
the food company or its products,

774
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,280
or bring the company name
into disrepute.

775
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,160
<font color="
silence on ultra-processed food.

776
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,120
Their most effective strategy
is to fund people who sound credible,

777
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,520
who create confusion and doubt.

778
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,960
That is what the tobacco industry did
so beautifully.

779
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,000
<font color="
but there is hope.

780
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,480
First of all, we did control tobacco,

781
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,240
not perfectly, but we did it.

782
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:46,520
The second thing is,

783
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,400
if you look at countries across
South and Central America,

784
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,560
they are bringing in policies
<font color="

785
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,520
My name is Juan Castro.

786
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,920
I'm trained as a doctor.

787
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,560
If I look at some of these
Colombian warning labels, you know,

788
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,200
it feels quite shocking
to have a warning label

789
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,960
on these very sort of
<font color="

790
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,920
You know, you might pause
if there was a big black octagon

791
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,720
on your kids' breakfast cereal.

792
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,480
Well, the food industry would say,

793
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,840
"Oh, the definition of
ultra-processed food

794
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:38,240
"includes lots of healthy foods, like
<font color="

795
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,400
"fish fingers, baked beans."

796
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,480
Now, this makes me incredibly angry.

797
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,080
This is food that I do feed
my children, OK?

798
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,880
The fish fingers -
very high in salt and fat.

799
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,640
The baked beans -
<font color="

800
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,600
The supermarket
ultra-processed bread,

801
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,040
even if it's got whole grains -
very high in sugar and salt.

802
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,120
So is this the worst food
you can buy? Absolutely not.

803
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,840
But is it the foundation
<font color="

804
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,840
It certainly isn't, no.

805
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,520
And in lots of countries,

806
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,000
all of those products would get
warning labels for salt, fat, sugar.

807
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,880
For years, the phrase was
"everything in moderation."

808
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,360
You know, it's as true today
<font color="

809
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,040
when whoever first coined it.

810
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,880
We're faced with so many challenges
in the world today,

811
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,960
and certainly in
providing a food supply.

812
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,880
Some of the discussion that,
you know, I hear,

813
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,080
<font color="
or ultra-processed foods,

814
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,240
seems to be designed
to stop us from doing that.

815
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:47,160
And I don't think that's
a very smart place to be.

816
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:57,600
Researchers say ultra-processed
foods now make up 73%

817
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,880
<font color="

818
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,720
Global obesity rates have doubled.

819
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:06,200
Now they've found ultra-processed
food can cause harm

820
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:07,560
similar to smoking.

821
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,720
..from the University of Oxford
highlights the enormous financial

822
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:14,240
power of unhealthy
<font color="

823
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,760
Imagine you're trying to cut down
on ultra-processed food

824
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,440
or avoid it altogether.

825
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,280
For a start, it might be
the only food you can afford,

826
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,160
and that is true
for millions of people.

827
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,560
<font color="
and it's engineered and then marketed

828
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:41,000
by some of the smartest people
on Earth to be irresistible.

829
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,320
So if someone is watching this
and they are struggling

830
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,480
with their weight, with diet-related
<font color="

831
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,800
and grab them and go,
"This is not your fault.

832
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,240
"It is not you. It is the food."