1 00:00:21,796 --> 00:00:23,869 It's just like Hollywood here. 2 00:00:55,834 --> 00:00:58,550 The anonymous viewer is back there, yeah? 3 00:01:09,014 --> 00:01:11,501 I mean if you're... 4 00:01:11,605 --> 00:01:14,256 Let's say you're standing in front of a group of people. 5 00:01:14,357 --> 00:01:19,625 Then it's best to reach them all at the same time. 6 00:01:20,467 --> 00:01:22,191 That's best. 7 00:01:22,291 --> 00:01:26,086 You have an idea of what's going on inside of people. 8 00:01:26,225 --> 00:01:30,763 Some people are very good at that. They have this special talent. 9 00:01:30,864 --> 00:01:33,198 For example, they walk into a room 10 00:01:33,455 --> 00:01:37,447 and can instantly sense the inner questions of everyone present. 11 00:01:39,405 --> 00:01:40,813 I mean it's... 12 00:01:44,171 --> 00:01:46,560 There's been a lot of that. 13 00:05:11,917 --> 00:05:13,345 That's it! 14 00:05:27,625 --> 00:05:28,836 Beuys speaking. 15 00:05:28,937 --> 00:05:31,969 »Good morning, Mr. Beuys. - Good morning. 16 00:05:32,071 --> 00:05:37,732 Our colleague from Midday Journal was speaking to Professor Joseph Beuys. 17 00:05:37,829 --> 00:05:42,203 Mr. Beuys, hem popular would you say you are? 18 00:05:43,268 --> 00:05:47,741 How should! know? What do you want me to say? 19 00:05:48,386 --> 00:05:51,582 Do you wan! me {o say "Force 12" or something? 20 00:05:51,681 --> 00:05:53,819 Why not express it in wind force? 21 00:05:53,921 --> 00:05:57,335 All right, so Yd say I've reached {he end of {he scale, 22 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,610 about hurricane force. 23 00:05:59,743 --> 00:06:02,841 And as you know; storm comes before hurricane. 24 00:06:02,942 --> 00:06:06,072 Mr. Beuys, thank you very much and I wish you continuing success. 25 00:06:16,059 --> 00:06:18,927 It was meant to be an event and that's what it is. 26 00:06:19,034 --> 00:06:23,288 A German event for New York. Beuys is here and everybody knows it. 27 00:06:24,055 --> 00:06:27,317 Joseph Beuys is exhibiling his art at the Guggenheim Museum 28 00:06:27,415 --> 00:06:32,018 and New Yorks press is doing all it can to help explain it. 29 00:06:41,619 --> 00:06:45,710 Hanging, lying and standing on a 432-meter continuous ramp 30 00:06:45,841 --> 00:06:49,354 is almost his entire output of graphic art and sculpture. 31 00:06:51,695 --> 00:06:55,884 Waiting upstairs are the felt-covered piano from 1966, 32 00:06:55,982 --> 00:06:58,436 as well as the "Fat Chair" and the "Honey Pump." 33 00:07:03,308 --> 00:07:07,137 "Forget the conventional idea of an. Anyone can be an artist. 34 00:07:07,243 --> 00:07:11,334 Anything can be an, especially anything that conserves energy" 35 00:07:11,433 --> 00:07:13,375 This is the shortcut formula for an. 36 00:08:25,395 --> 00:08:30,217 The magazine Capital named him Number 1 in the international art business, 37 00:08:30,322 --> 00:08:34,315 ousting Warhol and Rauschenberg from the top positions. 38 00:08:41,263 --> 00:08:44,873 When did they let him out of the hospital? Do you know when? 39 00:08:46,093 --> 00:08:48,428 It's like the remnants of a construction site. 40 00:08:48,524 --> 00:08:49,638 I was disappointed. 41 00:08:51,595 --> 00:08:52,675 It was fascinating. 42 00:08:52,779 --> 00:08:56,292 The felt piano was more accessible than other objects. 43 00:08:56,394 --> 00:08:59,175 For me, it's a new way of thinking about art. 44 00:10:55,398 --> 00:10:58,976 -...but it stays the same? - That's right. You empty it. 45 00:10:59,078 --> 00:11:02,591 You drink the contents and throw away the cap. That's what's left. 46 00:11:03,172 --> 00:11:08,506 But you're aware that you're moving away from the traditional concept of art? 47 00:11:08,611 --> 00:11:11,676 - Yes, of course... - And you really don't care 48 00:11:11,778 --> 00:11:15,639 that people say, "What Beuys is doing has nothing to do with art." 49 00:11:15,745 --> 00:11:18,461 - Or do you...? - Of course I don't care. 50 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,047 An, yes, but in a totally different sense. 51 00:11:21,151 --> 00:11:24,827 The concept of what an is has expanded to such a degree 52 00:11:24,926 --> 00:11:27,609 that, for me, there's nothing left of it. 53 00:11:27,709 --> 00:11:30,742 But within a comprehensive system 54 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:34,356 it's possible that a traditional concept of art 55 00:11:34,459 --> 00:11:37,175 might be able to keep its place, 56 00:11:37,274 --> 00:11:39,608 in a hermetically sealed form. 57 00:11:39,705 --> 00:11:43,501 It would circle around like an atom, somewhere inside this system. 58 00:11:43,608 --> 00:11:48,757 But the concept of art has been expanded so far that every normal situation is art. 59 00:11:48,855 --> 00:11:50,763 - Every situation or action...? - Yes. 60 00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:55,091 It's no longer an object that you hang on a wall... 61 00:12:07,889 --> 00:12:12,230 Now if one takes this position of an expanded concept of art, 62 00:12:13,168 --> 00:12:16,036 which is exactly my position anyway, 63 00:12:17,006 --> 00:12:20,650 most people will regard it as esoteric, 64 00:12:20,781 --> 00:12:24,490 insane, remote, 65 00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:28,165 marginal, peripheral... 66 00:12:28,267 --> 00:12:30,819 And so on and so forth. 67 00:12:30,922 --> 00:12:32,416 That's obvious. 68 00:13:12,445 --> 00:13:13,722 Mr. Beuys... 69 00:13:14,813 --> 00:13:18,391 At last year's an fair in Cologne, 70 00:13:18,491 --> 00:13:23,706 you exhibited a work that consisted of a Volkswagen bus... 71 00:13:24,922 --> 00:13:29,623 out of which are coming a large number... 72 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,629 Maybe 20, correct me if I'm wrong... 73 00:13:31,768 --> 00:13:34,616 -40! -...40 small sleds, 74 00:13:34,711 --> 00:13:37,711 all of them exactly the same, 75 00:13:37,814 --> 00:13:40,879 and I found it amusing. 76 00:13:40,981 --> 00:13:44,362 - That isn't what I wanted to say... - But that's good! 77 00:13:44,468 --> 00:13:47,249 - No! - But that's great! Why not? 78 00:13:47,347 --> 00:13:48,209 But... 79 00:13:48,307 --> 00:13:52,910 Do you want to stamp out laughter and fun, to have a revolution without laughter? 80 00:13:53,009 --> 00:13:54,056 I have a specific question... 81 00:13:54,161 --> 00:13:58,382 I want to get my moneys worth out of this revolution! 82 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,204 I believe you. 83 00:14:01,743 --> 00:14:02,441 Is that...? 84 00:14:02,542 --> 00:14:04,429 And I want others to get their money's worth! 85 00:14:04,526 --> 00:14:07,755 I believe you. But I want to ask you... 86 00:14:08,461 --> 00:14:11,777 Why didn't you use baby buggies? 87 00:14:14,123 --> 00:14:15,552 Why not? 88 00:14:18,090 --> 00:14:20,676 Because I chose the subject. 89 00:14:20,777 --> 00:14:23,842 You should do something with baby buggies! 90 00:14:25,512 --> 00:14:30,181 And see if you can make something that interests people! 91 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:38,649 Max Bill... 92 00:14:40,227 --> 00:14:43,543 I agree with Mr. Beuys that were here to think. 93 00:14:44,514 --> 00:14:47,448 But it's not necessary to think until daybreak. 94 00:14:50,624 --> 00:14:51,573 So... 95 00:14:52,512 --> 00:14:54,814 If we take what Picasso said, 96 00:14:55,455 --> 00:15:00,309 "The purpose of an is not to decorate our apartments, 97 00:15:01,245 --> 00:15:05,139 it's a weapon against the enemy." 98 00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:09,208 The question is: Who is the enemy? 99 00:16:07,881 --> 00:16:12,703 Professor Gehlen, you said the boundaries of an had expanded enormously 100 00:16:12,807 --> 00:16:16,799 and that you no longer feel provoked by art. 101 00:16:16,902 --> 00:16:20,284 Do you feel challenged by his works, 102 00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:25,091 or do you see his art, or anti-art, as a stimulating element? Or... 103 00:16:25,188 --> 00:16:28,220 What's my work got to do with anything? 104 00:16:28,355 --> 00:16:31,388 It's irrelevant. We're talking about a theory. 105 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:34,807 We're talking about something far beyond my work. 106 00:16:34,913 --> 00:16:37,978 Let's throw my work out of the window! 107 00:16:38,656 --> 00:16:42,812 - And your work as well! Maybe... - What is it you want? 108 00:16:42,910 --> 00:16:46,357 I want to expand peoples consciousness, 109 00:16:46,461 --> 00:16:49,942 especially regarding the current political situation. 110 00:16:50,044 --> 00:16:53,491 - Okay... - I don't believe we live in a democracy. 111 00:16:53,595 --> 00:16:56,409 I don't believe we're taught to be free human beings 112 00:16:56,506 --> 00:16:59,125 due to our party-political bureaucracy. 113 00:16:59,225 --> 00:17:03,055 - I'm willing to provoke right now! - Me, too! 114 00:17:03,992 --> 00:17:07,570 First of all, I want to return to the original topic. 115 00:17:07,704 --> 00:17:10,551 If you want to expand or change peoples consciousness, 116 00:17:10,646 --> 00:17:12,555 you must know in which direction. 117 00:17:12,661 --> 00:17:15,509 That's why I'm prepared to talk until daybreak. 118 00:17:15,605 --> 00:17:18,386 - No, tell us now! - Aha, in one sentence. 119 00:17:18,484 --> 00:17:19,792 Now! 120 00:17:20,788 --> 00:17:22,282 People don't understand you? 121 00:17:22,387 --> 00:17:26,445 I always say that people understand me very well. 122 00:17:26,546 --> 00:17:28,335 - But they're afraid of it? - No. 123 00:17:28,433 --> 00:17:30,985 But... But then we need to... 124 00:17:31,249 --> 00:17:34,096 It's not a bad thing if people get aggressive. 125 00:17:34,191 --> 00:17:35,653 Let them be aggressive. 126 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:39,940 At least that gets you talking to them. 127 00:17:40,621 --> 00:17:42,476 You have to provoke it. 128 00:17:42,572 --> 00:17:45,736 Provocation always causes something to come alive. 129 00:17:45,836 --> 00:17:49,218 Maybe they smash their china at home. 130 00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:53,032 Or maybe they call me up on the phone. 131 00:17:53,129 --> 00:17:57,286 It always happens after I've been on TV, "Idiot!" 132 00:18:00,488 --> 00:18:05,026 - They call you at home? - Sure, whenever I've been on TV. 133 00:18:06,182 --> 00:18:07,425 "Asshole!" 134 00:18:11,172 --> 00:18:13,180 Yes... Just a second... 135 00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:17,503 For many people, an means the freedom of randomness, 136 00:18:17,602 --> 00:18:20,416 "Ah, art. I can do whatever I want." 137 00:18:21,313 --> 00:18:24,378 But what's the point of art if nothing comes of it? 138 00:18:25,536 --> 00:18:27,838 So whenever people ask me if I'm an artist, 139 00:18:27,935 --> 00:18:30,324 I say, "Oh, cut the crap." 140 00:18:31,294 --> 00:18:37,970 I'm not here to decorate these foul, moldering, stinking systems. 141 00:18:38,076 --> 00:18:40,628 I'm not an artist at all. 142 00:18:40,731 --> 00:18:44,407 Except if we say that everyone is an artist. 143 00:18:44,506 --> 00:18:47,670 I buy into that, but only then. 144 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,294 I never said everyone is a poet, a painter, a sculptor. 145 00:18:57,910 --> 00:19:02,699 I mean social an when I say everyone is an artist. 146 00:19:02,805 --> 00:19:05,805 I find what you're saying to be terribly abstract and intellectual... 147 00:19:05,907 --> 00:19:07,402 No. 148 00:19:07,508 --> 00:19:10,573 I'm talking about the emergence of a new an 149 00:19:10,674 --> 00:19:15,627 where everyone not only can participate but must participate. 150 00:19:16,561 --> 00:19:22,703 He was a totally reasonable person, not at all strange or freakish. 151 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:24,839 To me he was always totally reasonable. 152 00:19:24,974 --> 00:19:27,526 The opposite of what everyone else said. 153 00:19:27,629 --> 00:19:30,564 "Crazy," "strange," "peculiar." 154 00:19:30,701 --> 00:19:35,490 He was the first sane person I'd ever met. He was totally sane. 155 00:19:35,595 --> 00:19:40,995 And right after our first one-on-one conversation at documenta, I knew, 156 00:19:41,097 --> 00:19:42,952 "You can trust him completely." 157 00:19:44,073 --> 00:19:45,927 I thought that was great. 158 00:19:47,815 --> 00:19:50,117 It had nothing to do with his aura. 159 00:19:53,990 --> 00:20:00,546 I just thought he was someone who was surrounded and courted by people and... 160 00:20:07,841 --> 00:20:11,223 And then he had this incredible, instinctive self-assurance 161 00:20:11,328 --> 00:20:14,742 and this penetrating gaze. 162 00:20:15,999 --> 00:20:17,308 And... 163 00:20:19,902 --> 00:20:22,357 And a really sharp mind. 164 00:20:22,461 --> 00:20:26,617 You need both, otherwise there's no point. You're just a dreamer. 165 00:20:26,876 --> 00:20:31,217 But he wasn't. He was and he wasn't at the same time. 166 00:20:31,322 --> 00:20:33,874 I don't know how anyone can stand that. 167 00:20:41,047 --> 00:20:45,301 He was totally consistent in his words and actions. 168 00:20:45,398 --> 00:20:48,627 FOR THE DOCUMENTA 7,000 OAKS 169 00:20:48,725 --> 00:20:50,896 You're serious? 170 00:20:50,996 --> 00:20:54,923 If I say I'm going to plant 7,000 oaks, then I'm going to plant 7,000 oaks. 171 00:20:55,731 --> 00:20:59,789 I think the project will take at least three years. 172 00:20:59,890 --> 00:21:01,548 Thank you, Mr. Beuys. 173 00:21:40,933 --> 00:21:44,828 How would you help someone who's dumbfounded by your work 174 00:21:44,932 --> 00:21:46,841 to understand it better? 175 00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:50,874 I would show him the two utensils, a spoon and a fork 176 00:21:50,978 --> 00:21:53,465 and invite him to eat the object. 177 00:22:09,245 --> 00:22:11,448 During the 100 days of the documenta, 178 00:22:11,548 --> 00:22:14,329 you're spending 10 hours a day here in your office. 179 00:22:14,427 --> 00:22:17,492 You speak with everyone, you answer every question... 180 00:22:34,997 --> 00:22:38,772 At the heart of the documenta, several hectoliters of bee honey 181 00:22:38,868 --> 00:22:41,454 pulsate through an extensive system of veins. 182 00:22:41,555 --> 00:22:44,849 Title." "The Honey Pump in the Workplace." 183 00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:28,223 The 7,000 trees in Kassel each have a rock, 184 00:23:28,901 --> 00:23:31,356 so it's a tree monument. 185 00:23:32,644 --> 00:23:38,491 Every tree has a kind of opposite pole. 186 00:23:40,866 --> 00:23:44,695 The tree keeps growing taller, the rock stays as it is. 187 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,371 I wanted to juxtapose these two things. 188 00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:51,861 So that over the course of time... 189 00:23:53,022 --> 00:23:55,476 the proportions change constantly. 190 00:24:12,409 --> 00:24:14,678 AN IDEA IS TAKING ROOT 191 00:24:14,807 --> 00:24:17,742 SET YOUR ROCK ROLLING 192 00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:28,256 JOSEPH BEUYS: 7,000 OAKS 193 00:28:29,739 --> 00:28:34,757 I'd like to talk a little more about another one of your influences, 194 00:28:35,466 --> 00:28:38,215 your biography, your life. 195 00:28:38,312 --> 00:28:40,320 If I understand correctly, 196 00:28:40,424 --> 00:28:44,678 it's more than just a personal affair for you. 197 00:28:45,351 --> 00:28:48,351 What does your personal story have to do with your art? 198 00:28:48,453 --> 00:28:52,827 Is your an as autobiographical as is sometimes claimed? 199 00:28:53,604 --> 00:28:56,059 You're originally from Kleve. 200 00:28:56,675 --> 00:28:59,904 You're the son of a civil servant 201 00:29:00,002 --> 00:29:03,264 who went on to own a fertilizer business, I believe. 202 00:29:03,361 --> 00:29:07,037 So you weren't really predestined to be an artist, 203 00:29:07,136 --> 00:29:09,918 especially not with your family background. 204 00:29:10,015 --> 00:29:12,056 That's right, I wasn't. 205 00:29:18,941 --> 00:29:24,275 My parents would've preferred me to work in the margarine factory in Kleve. 206 00:29:24,379 --> 00:29:27,509 Why did they want you to work in the margarine factory? 207 00:29:28,665 --> 00:29:31,632 Because it was the easiest way to get a good job, 208 00:29:31,737 --> 00:29:34,257 because it was on a par with being a civil servant. 209 00:29:36,151 --> 00:29:38,867 My parents wanted me to go there because they thought, 210 00:29:38,966 --> 00:29:40,907 "Whatever will become of him?" 211 00:30:27,784 --> 00:30:31,907 But he did say he felt like a stranger in his parents' house. 212 00:30:32,551 --> 00:30:34,689 There was something missing there. 213 00:30:41,284 --> 00:30:45,593 He felt no warmth there, not even toward his mother. 214 00:30:45,698 --> 00:30:47,258 Not really... 215 00:30:49,089 --> 00:30:52,864 Theirs was a purely pragmatic relationship... 216 00:30:53,569 --> 00:30:56,601 That's how I imagine it, knowing him. 217 00:31:01,598 --> 00:31:05,078 But what he felt deep down, that was something else. 218 00:31:14,298 --> 00:31:18,606 He said that his parents rather neglected him, 219 00:31:18,713 --> 00:31:21,047 that they left him to his own devices. 220 00:31:21,144 --> 00:31:24,853 But instead of being sad about it, 221 00:31:24,951 --> 00:31:27,667 he was proud of it. 222 00:31:27,765 --> 00:31:29,674 It says a lot about him. 223 00:31:30,613 --> 00:31:36,045 That's normally seen as a flaw, but for him it was a source of strength, 224 00:31:36,883 --> 00:31:40,297 being left alone, being free, going off into the fields. 225 00:32:55,068 --> 00:32:59,256 Hasn't your appearance also become something of a cliche? 226 00:32:59,354 --> 00:33:02,649 - Your famous hat, for example? - Yes. 227 00:33:02,745 --> 00:33:04,153 Does the hat 228 00:33:04,857 --> 00:33:08,337 have a protective function, or is it simply a trademark? 229 00:33:08,984 --> 00:33:10,838 It also has a protective function. 230 00:33:11,351 --> 00:33:13,871 So you protect your head with it. 231 00:33:14,422 --> 00:33:16,146 Yes, I protect my head. 232 00:33:17,109 --> 00:33:21,385 You were seriously wounded several times during the war. 233 00:33:21,492 --> 00:33:22,801 - And you once... - Correct. 234 00:33:22,899 --> 00:33:25,867 -...crashed with your plane, in '43. - Yes. 235 00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:27,595 And you said, 236 00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:30,344 "It's been drafty up there ever since. 237 00:33:30,481 --> 00:33:33,481 - Actually, I've got a screw loose." - Correct. 238 00:33:33,585 --> 00:33:37,130 I also said that I was shot into shape. 239 00:34:30,527 --> 00:34:34,356 Do you remember the crash, or did it happen so quickly that...? 240 00:34:37,534 --> 00:34:41,722 I remember the plane going down. 241 00:34:43,036 --> 00:34:46,068 I said, "Let's get out, let's jump." 242 00:34:47,098 --> 00:34:51,668 - So there were other people in the plane? - Yes, one other man. 243 00:34:55,735 --> 00:34:58,932 - And he died? - There was nothing left of him. 244 00:35:00,758 --> 00:35:05,515 Apart from a few pieces of bone, everything was... 245 00:35:15,698 --> 00:35:17,073 Yes, well... 246 00:35:17,169 --> 00:35:21,958 I remember hearing the voices of the Tatars. 247 00:35:22,576 --> 00:35:26,219 I remember them finding me and standing around me. 248 00:35:27,214 --> 00:35:29,417 But then I lost consciousness. 249 00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:37,191 All the things I remember happened when I was only partly conscious, 250 00:35:37,291 --> 00:35:42,439 because I didn't regain consciousness for about 12 days. 251 00:35:42,538 --> 00:35:45,887 When I came to, I was in a German hospital in the Crimea. 252 00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:50,578 ACADEMY O F ARTS 253 00:39:26,791 --> 00:39:29,474 Beuys was a very slim, 254 00:39:30,469 --> 00:39:34,047 very skinny young man... 255 00:39:35,396 --> 00:39:38,691 with a face that you never forgot. 256 00:39:40,098 --> 00:39:44,571 It was somewhat deform ed as a result of one of the crashes. 257 00:39:44,673 --> 00:39:48,862 He'd suffered a broken nose as well as injuries to his skull. 258 00:39:49,824 --> 00:39:51,132 And... 259 00:39:52,063 --> 00:39:56,983 But he was a man with tremendous charisma, who radiated a tremendous warmth. 260 00:40:32,083 --> 00:40:35,791 KLEVE, FEBRUARY 28,1957 261 00:40:38,545 --> 00:40:45,352 "After not having visited Beuys for a long time, I called on him today. 262 00:40:47,342 --> 00:40:50,473 He was going through another phase 263 00:40:50,573 --> 00:40:55,754 of neither washing nor putting on any clothes. 264 00:40:57,260 --> 00:41:00,706 He's abandoning himself more and more, 265 00:41:00,811 --> 00:41:03,330 as an artist too. 266 00:41:06,888 --> 00:41:09,790 How often he weeps, 267 00:41:09,896 --> 00:41:14,815 says he's going to leave, go somewhere, forever." 268 00:41:43,582 --> 00:41:50,487 It probably had something to do with the fact that he was undernourished. 269 00:41:52,283 --> 00:41:56,079 And also with his total lack of success. 270 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:02,899 In any event, 271 00:42:03,703 --> 00:42:05,973 that was the... 272 00:42:07,479 --> 00:42:09,813 That was the time 273 00:42:10,454 --> 00:42:14,283 when he sank into the quagmire of his own inner misery. 274 00:42:36,526 --> 00:42:42,918 "The chief resident spoke about the examination in Essen. 275 00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:48,288 As I understood it, he'd diagnosed Beuys as being incurable." 276 00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:02,722 He stayed there all summer. 277 00:43:02,982 --> 00:43:05,185 He stayed in my room, 278 00:43:05,957 --> 00:43:08,095 and when he was... 279 00:43:09,732 --> 00:43:13,626 When he was depressed, he hardly responded. 280 00:43:14,178 --> 00:43:18,073 And during the worst periods, he hardly ever left his room, 281 00:43:18,337 --> 00:43:20,475 not even for a meal. 282 00:43:21,664 --> 00:43:23,356 And on his better days... 283 00:43:24,831 --> 00:43:29,205 he'd spend the whole day outside with us from morning till evening, 284 00:43:29,342 --> 00:43:31,196 in the meadows or fields. 285 00:44:11,601 --> 00:44:16,238 And then we told him he should do something again, at all costs. 286 00:44:16,368 --> 00:44:18,920 He said, "I'm finished with art. 287 00:44:20,015 --> 00:44:22,863 I don't want anything more to do with it." 288 00:44:25,709 --> 00:44:29,636 I said, "You can't carry on like this." 289 00:44:29,772 --> 00:44:34,823 And then my mother went up to his room and knocked on the door, "Mr. Beuys?" 290 00:44:35,818 --> 00:44:39,429 But Mr. Beuys didn't want to come out, and she said, 291 00:44:39,529 --> 00:44:44,165 "I want to talk to you, open the door," which he did. 292 00:44:44,264 --> 00:44:48,191 And then she appealed to his conscience. 293 00:44:48,294 --> 00:44:54,240 And she told him that his gift was also an obligation, a duty 294 00:44:55,012 --> 00:44:57,881 toward the spirit that had given him that gift. 295 00:45:48,788 --> 00:45:50,544 After you graduated from art school, 296 00:45:50,644 --> 00:45:54,735 you withdrew to the countryside for ten years. 297 00:45:55,250 --> 00:46:00,072 Yes, I didn't feel the need to be pan of the contemporary an scene. 298 00:46:01,233 --> 00:46:05,007 When did you decide to start doing performance an? 299 00:46:05,935 --> 00:46:09,230 I think it developed quite organically 300 00:46:09,326 --> 00:46:14,508 from my aim to expand the boundaries of art. 301 00:47:01,982 --> 00:47:07,250 Beuys had to create a basis for himself in order to overcome this crisis. 302 00:47:07,357 --> 00:47:11,960 He needed a pedestal to stand on, rather like the Archimedean point, 303 00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:15,125 "Give me a place to stand and I'll move the Earth." 304 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,909 But it was also a spiritual basis... 305 00:47:27,351 --> 00:47:29,870 his theory of "social sculpture." 306 00:47:32,917 --> 00:47:37,041 How he did that, it's something I... 307 00:47:37,716 --> 00:47:40,814 "How is a figure, a form created?" 308 00:47:41,619 --> 00:47:44,335 "Where does the form come from? What is form?" 309 00:47:52,207 --> 00:47:54,094 Yes, that's interesting. 310 00:47:57,070 --> 00:48:02,634 Certainly, when I began... And I'm referring to my drawings again... 311 00:48:03,820 --> 00:48:07,267 I was actually... How can I put it? 312 00:48:07,371 --> 00:48:09,444 I was feeling my way around. 313 00:48:10,538 --> 00:48:13,439 I was groping about. 314 00:48:13,545 --> 00:48:17,374 Almost as if I was in the dark, you might say. 315 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,774 I had to touch something... 316 00:48:22,758 --> 00:48:24,667 and often had to lay it down... 317 00:48:25,862 --> 00:48:29,604 and examine it myself and see 318 00:48:30,308 --> 00:48:36,024 if what I'd created might be of interest to anyone at all. 319 00:48:37,185 --> 00:48:41,723 But, above all, whether what I'd created interested me. 320 00:48:55,644 --> 00:49:01,175 My choice of materials doesn't initially come from a painterly impulse, 321 00:49:01,946 --> 00:49:04,433 it comes from the wish to create sculpture. 322 00:49:10,584 --> 00:49:12,012 These materials appeared at a time 323 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:17,814 when I was trying to break down the term "sculpture" into its components. 324 00:49:21,652 --> 00:49:25,231 And felt appeared as an insulating element 325 00:49:25,364 --> 00:49:27,950 within the three configurations of sculpture: 326 00:49:28,050 --> 00:49:31,083 undetermined, determined and movement. 327 00:49:33,233 --> 00:49:36,201 The simplest thing in the world, 328 00:49:36,464 --> 00:49:40,620 when describing the process of a production, 329 00:49:40,751 --> 00:49:42,213 is called... 330 00:49:44,654 --> 00:49:47,174 "undetermined starting point..." 331 00:49:51,564 --> 00:49:54,661 "momentum" and "form." 332 00:49:57,610 --> 00:50:00,162 FAT CORNER 333 00:50:06,791 --> 00:50:12,256 Fat was the ideal material for showing states of chaotic... 334 00:50:14,405 --> 00:50:16,227 condition... 335 00:50:17,284 --> 00:50:22,499 for showing movement and the principle of form. 336 00:50:26,369 --> 00:50:30,526 The principle of form appears as a "fat corner" in a room. 337 00:50:38,525 --> 00:50:42,103 In the fat, you have an ideal opportunity 338 00:50:42,204 --> 00:50:46,545 to show the components of the sculpture through the performance. 339 00:50:48,603 --> 00:50:51,384 But I'm referring to sculpture not as a static element, 340 00:50:51,482 --> 00:50:54,482 but as a universal one. 341 00:51:13,587 --> 00:51:18,573 I'd like to come back to this idea of rationale. 342 00:51:18,673 --> 00:51:22,568 If you make your "fat corners," for example... 343 00:51:22,672 --> 00:51:23,621 Yes. 344 00:51:23,728 --> 00:51:26,760 ...then you think about making them beforehand. 345 00:51:26,863 --> 00:51:28,804 They don't appear on their own, 346 00:51:28,911 --> 00:51:31,758 without a rationale, without thought. 347 00:51:31,853 --> 00:51:34,242 The fat doesn't get into the corner on its own. 348 00:51:34,509 --> 00:51:35,850 Correct! 349 00:51:35,948 --> 00:51:40,202 All right, that's what you think. But I cant be so impatient. 350 00:51:40,299 --> 00:51:42,502 Maybe you can allow yourself to be. 351 00:51:42,634 --> 00:51:45,154 All I can say is that it's no longer possible 352 00:51:45,258 --> 00:51:47,941 to talk about sculpture in a conventional sense, 353 00:51:48,041 --> 00:51:49,895 as if one knew what it was. 354 00:51:49,992 --> 00:51:53,886 "A sculpture is something that stands there, like a coat rack. 355 00:51:53,991 --> 00:51:56,227 It's spatial, you can put a hat on it..." 356 00:51:56,326 --> 00:51:59,675 I've tried to apply the term to people, 357 00:51:59,782 --> 00:52:04,385 so that the things I find in sculpture I can find in people too. 358 00:52:04,483 --> 00:52:08,542 That's right. You might laugh and think how irrelevant that is. 359 00:52:08,643 --> 00:52:10,432 But I've done it! 360 00:52:25,694 --> 00:52:30,264 And now we come to another concept that plays an important part. 361 00:52:30,364 --> 00:52:35,251 I suggest that the first product of human creativity is thought, 362 00:52:35,387 --> 00:52:39,095 and that because of this, thought itself is sculpture. 363 00:52:39,226 --> 00:52:41,942 Thoughts affect the world. 364 00:52:42,041 --> 00:52:46,197 THOUGHT = SCULPTURE "FREEDOM" 365 00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:06,887 Düsseldorf Academy of Arts. A demon is destroying calm and order." 366 00:53:06,993 --> 00:53:09,164 Joseph Beuys, professor and sculptor. 367 00:53:09,968 --> 00:53:14,027 He uses the academy to carry his ideas out into society. 368 00:53:14,959 --> 00:53:18,667 Fundamentally, every human being can be creative 369 00:53:19,245 --> 00:53:24,231 if an opportunity is created for him or her to be able to be creative. 370 00:53:25,484 --> 00:53:28,200 That's the question of equal opportunity in education. 371 00:53:30,986 --> 00:53:34,761 Here, a professor is putting his concept of art into action, 372 00:53:34,889 --> 00:53:37,278 a concept that breaks out of the aesthetic realm 373 00:53:37,384 --> 00:53:39,325 and applies h: all areas of life. 374 00:53:46,597 --> 00:53:51,484 You have to ask yourself how we've arrived at this sorry state of affairs, 375 00:53:51,748 --> 00:53:53,821 what's causing these ills? 376 00:53:53,923 --> 00:53:58,625 We're forced to use everything at our disposal. 377 00:53:59,170 --> 00:54:01,722 In that sense, it looks like a... 378 00:54:01,824 --> 00:54:05,173 Beuys' class had a high profile 379 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,988 and was very much tailored to Beuys himself. 380 00:54:09,087 --> 00:54:14,355 And I was one of the worst, I was a true disciple of Beuys, 381 00:54:14,461 --> 00:54:18,835 and that's the worst thing that can happen at any art academy, 382 00:54:18,940 --> 00:54:24,689 when, instead of wanting to do their own thing, 383 00:54:24,826 --> 00:54:29,331 the students fall into line with a particular idea. 384 00:54:29,433 --> 00:54:31,603 If that happens at an academy of art... 385 00:54:31,704 --> 00:54:34,551 An is very sensitive in that respect, 386 00:54:34,647 --> 00:54:37,266 because it stinks of ideology from the get-go. 387 00:54:42,101 --> 00:54:45,963 There certainly are people who have a great affinity with my ideas, 388 00:54:46,067 --> 00:54:49,809 but they aren't always disciples: we work together. 389 00:55:40,612 --> 00:55:43,295 Beuys was with us in the class from morning till evening. 390 00:55:45,698 --> 00:55:48,316 There had never been anything like it at the academy. 391 00:55:51,073 --> 00:55:55,000 When he was talking to someone, critiquing their work, for example, 392 00:55:55,103 --> 00:55:58,397 he always found a new point that had to be worked on. 393 00:55:58,494 --> 00:56:02,389 And you'd be thinking, "Let's go get a coffee, for God's sake," 394 00:56:02,492 --> 00:56:04,249 but he'd go on and on. 395 00:56:08,443 --> 00:56:12,502 Do you distinguish between Beuys the artist and Beuys the teacher? 396 00:56:12,601 --> 00:56:14,259 No, not at all. 397 00:56:16,313 --> 00:56:19,923 And that's exactly what's most important to me. 398 00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,573 I've said again and again that... 399 00:56:24,854 --> 00:56:26,862 that I see this kind of work 400 00:56:26,965 --> 00:56:31,339 as a product of art. 401 00:56:32,212 --> 00:56:35,593 Friday, April 28, 10:30 am. 402 00:56:36,338 --> 00:56:39,054 Joseph Beuys outlines his latest project. 403 00:56:40,177 --> 00:56:45,893 What I'd like to do is create a kind of cultural center here in Dusseldorf 404 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,650 that can be interesting for the whole world, 405 00:56:48,783 --> 00:56:50,408 as a meeting point. 406 00:56:50,510 --> 00:56:54,023 Then I'd like to create a second tier: 407 00:56:54,125 --> 00:56:57,987 the permanent presentation of artists from all around the world... 408 00:57:05,258 --> 00:57:07,232 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 409 00:57:07,498 --> 00:57:09,832 No, no, no, no, no. 410 00:57:09,928 --> 00:57:11,750 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 411 00:57:12,551 --> 00:57:14,754 No, no, no, no, no. 412 00:57:14,855 --> 00:57:18,084 Chinese artists, Russian artists, Hungarian artists, 413 00:57:18,182 --> 00:57:22,207 American artists, Finnish artists, and so on. 414 00:57:22,660 --> 00:57:28,638 So that we can overcome the problem of the art market 415 00:57:28,739 --> 00:57:30,201 by utilizing the time factor. 416 00:57:30,306 --> 00:57:36,000 But there were some professors there who took offense at Beuys. 417 00:57:36,096 --> 00:57:38,812 Because, with his concept of freedom, 418 00:57:38,912 --> 00:57:42,708 he'd hit a raw nerve 419 00:57:42,814 --> 00:57:48,050 by, without necessarily wanting to, making his colleagues look bad. 420 00:57:54,139 --> 00:57:57,521 He'd hit a raw nerve by basically saying: 421 00:57:57,626 --> 00:57:59,862 "You're artists, this is about art. 422 00:57:59,962 --> 00:58:03,638 An is total freedom and self-determination. 423 00:58:03,736 --> 00:58:06,071 And what are you? Civil servants." 424 00:58:26,546 --> 00:58:30,506 I want to draw people's attention to misguided policies, 425 00:58:31,152 --> 00:58:35,821 and I'm no longer interested in causing trouble at the academy. 426 00:58:35,919 --> 00:58:39,878 I want to inform people about the true culprits in our system. 427 00:58:39,982 --> 00:58:42,469 I want to inform and educate people. 428 00:58:47,019 --> 00:58:50,314 That's the idea people often laugh at me for: 429 00:58:50,410 --> 00:58:52,680 "Can sculpture change the world?" 430 00:58:58,824 --> 00:59:01,922 BOXING MATCH: JOSEPH BEUYS andABRAHAM DAVID CHRISTIAN 431 00:59:02,887 --> 00:59:06,268 DIRECT DEMOCRACY VIA REFERENDA 432 00:59:40,092 --> 00:59:45,011 The documenta was over, and the new semester began the next day. 433 00:59:45,114 --> 00:59:49,684 All the bigwigs from the government of North Rhine-Westphalia were invited. 434 00:59:50,841 --> 00:59:54,833 And Joseph Beuys stood up in front of them 435 00:59:55,639 --> 00:59:59,631 and made a speech to them in grunts. 436 01:00:35,787 --> 01:00:39,103 I don't think it would've occurred to anyone to laugh. 437 01:00:39,210 --> 01:00:42,526 It was too dangerous. 438 01:01:17,086 --> 01:01:20,054 IS THIS THE CHOP FOR ART PROFESSOR BEUYS? 439 01:01:20,157 --> 01:01:22,546 EIGHT COLLEAGUES MUTINYAGAINST HIM 440 01:01:22,813 --> 01:01:25,016 (CONSTANT) TROUBLE WITH BEUYS 441 01:02:06,479 --> 01:02:09,774 Students at the Academy of Arts in Düsseldorf 442 01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,147 demonstrate for one of their teachers, Professor Joseph Beuys. 443 01:02:14,253 --> 01:02:16,620 NO REPLACEMENT FOR BEUYS 444 01:02:18,220 --> 01:02:21,569 How do you judge the general situation at the academy? 445 01:02:21,676 --> 01:02:23,399 It's pretty chaotic. 446 01:02:23,498 --> 01:02:25,407 But we didn't cause this chaos, 447 01:02:25,514 --> 01:02:29,987 it was those in authority in the cultural bureaucracy. 448 01:02:46,372 --> 01:02:48,478 Let's talk about what happened. 449 01:02:48,579 --> 01:02:54,426 Along with 54 applicants who'd been turned down by the academy, 450 01:02:54,529 --> 01:02:56,122 you occupied its offices. 451 01:02:56,225 --> 01:02:59,094 What did you hope to achieve by this? 452 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,032 I wanted to very calmly see to it 453 01:03:03,135 --> 01:03:05,819 that these students, who already attend my class, 454 01:03:05,950 --> 01:03:07,096 should be enrolled. 455 01:03:12,924 --> 01:03:15,738 On October 5, we were informed 456 01:03:15,835 --> 01:03:19,630 that it was Professor Beuys' intention, 457 01:03:20,314 --> 01:03:23,412 as of October 10, 458 01:03:23,512 --> 01:03:26,741 to remain in the academys offices for a prolonged duration. 459 01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:41,039 The letter to Mr. Beuys, which was written by proxy for the undersecretary, 460 01:03:41,139 --> 01:03:47,281 had been agreed on by me, and in it, it was pointed out to Professor Beuys 461 01:03:48,050 --> 01:03:52,173 that, in spite of our sympathy for his personal style, 462 01:03:52,976 --> 01:03:57,514 we could not accept unlawful acts 463 01:03:58,382 --> 01:04:03,139 and that his status as a state employee was in question. 464 01:04:24,455 --> 01:04:25,568 NO REPLACEMENT FOR BEUYS 465 01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:31,899 The Minister for Science has dismissed you without prior notice for "trespassing." 466 01:04:32,004 --> 01:04:35,451 Do you think the Minister will revoke your dismissal? 467 01:04:36,003 --> 01:04:39,199 I don't think so. Maybe. I'll leave it open. 468 01:04:40,033 --> 01:04:43,448 He could at least have talked to me, in my opinion. 469 01:04:44,384 --> 01:04:50,133 Why let something happen that resulted in huge effort and expense? 470 01:04:50,238 --> 01:04:52,147 The police operation, for example? 471 01:04:52,254 --> 01:04:55,962 Wouldn't it have been more economical to talk to me? 472 01:04:56,061 --> 01:04:58,069 What are your plans now? 473 01:04:58,205 --> 01:05:01,237 You've been officially dismissed. What do you think about that? 474 01:06:10,823 --> 01:06:14,237 How do you feel now? Like Don Quixote, whom? 475 01:06:14,341 --> 01:06:15,617 No, not at all. 476 01:06:15,717 --> 01:06:17,125 Or like... 477 01:06:17,957 --> 01:06:21,916 Professor, what are the main points of your dispute? 478 01:06:22,019 --> 01:06:27,451 The cultural scene has been destroyed to a large extent, again by Mr. Rau. 479 01:06:28,737 --> 01:06:32,348 Due to his interference in the Academy of Arts, 480 01:06:32,448 --> 01:06:36,157 its development, the creation of new ideas, 481 01:06:36,255 --> 01:06:40,084 as well as the appearance of foreign artists here in Dusseldorf 482 01:06:40,990 --> 01:06:43,357 have been ruined. That's a fact. 483 01:06:43,453 --> 01:06:45,558 Is it really so dramatic? 484 01:06:45,693 --> 01:06:48,474 The accumulation of these events 485 01:06:49,115 --> 01:06:53,010 results in a kind of experience that makes you want to leave this city 486 01:06:53,114 --> 01:06:55,765 as quickly as possible. 487 01:06:55,865 --> 01:06:57,873 The question is... 488 01:06:59,256 --> 01:07:01,645 Shall we take a short break? 489 01:07:03,863 --> 01:07:09,263 What conclusions have you drawn from it for your future? 490 01:07:09,365 --> 01:07:13,194 I'm treating myself solely through the character of my work. 491 01:07:15,155 --> 01:07:17,936 I've proposed the theory... 492 01:07:18,034 --> 01:07:21,416 I made a multiple: "I Nourish Myself by Wasting Energy." 493 01:07:22,225 --> 01:07:23,653 Yes. 494 01:07:23,761 --> 01:07:25,702 Yes, that's my method. 495 01:07:45,131 --> 01:07:48,130 BEUYS: FOR ME THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS WEEKENDS 496 01:08:18,048 --> 01:08:22,750 Joseph, do you think you've chosen the right time to come to America 497 01:08:22,847 --> 01:08:26,327 and talk about your ideas on an and politics, 498 01:08:26,462 --> 01:08:32,059 after turning down almost every invitation from America in the last 10 years? 499 01:08:32,156 --> 01:08:36,083 Would you like to smoke a cigar first? 500 01:08:37,147 --> 01:08:41,903 Beuys could embolden you the old-fashioned way: by example. 501 01:08:42,010 --> 01:08:45,620 He had a vision. He wanted something. 502 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,549 We're really into step-by-step plans, as you know. 503 01:08:49,655 --> 01:08:53,843 So let's begin casually with step one. Casually... 504 01:08:53,942 --> 01:08:58,764 He was someone who saw in every person a potential partner 505 01:08:58,868 --> 01:09:01,584 for his ideas, for his ideas. 506 01:09:01,683 --> 01:09:06,057 And he didn't care where someone came from or what they'd done. 507 01:09:06,323 --> 01:09:10,599 He said of himself that his attitude was, 508 01:09:10,705 --> 01:09:13,738 "Give people time and they'll come around." 509 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,229 Because I've now reached the point 510 01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:22,661 where it's clear to me that I won't put on the kind of exhibition in America 511 01:09:22,765 --> 01:09:25,187 that's been the norm in the past... 512 01:09:26,764 --> 01:09:29,829 and that there's a lot of interest here now 513 01:09:29,931 --> 01:09:32,298 in these complex ideas 514 01:09:32,939 --> 01:09:36,036 with a political dimension. 515 01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:21,627 I learned a huge amount from him, 516 01:10:21,724 --> 01:10:25,466 including how to cope with being insulted and reviled. 517 01:10:30,361 --> 01:10:34,223 How to keep trying and trying again, starting afresh. 518 01:10:34,328 --> 01:10:37,458 And, of course, he was attacked by many people 519 01:10:38,455 --> 01:10:42,644 who didn't like the idea of an artist interfering with social issues. 520 01:20:39,394 --> 01:20:40,889 Beuys speaking... 521 01:20:43,522 --> 01:20:46,936 Joseph Beuys, both venerated and reviled, 522 01:20:47,041 --> 01:20:49,081 is running for parliament. 523 01:20:50,879 --> 01:20:57,021 In 1971, he founded an organization for direct democracy through referenda, 524 01:20:57,789 --> 01:21:01,083 and he's totally serious about his current election campaign. 525 01:21:01,340 --> 01:21:05,202 Serious about, among other things, bringing laughter into parliament. 526 01:21:05,307 --> 01:21:08,088 - Would you like to become Chancellor? - Pardon? 527 01:21:10,425 --> 01:21:12,312 - Pardon? - Would you like to become Chancellor? 528 01:21:12,409 --> 01:21:14,198 Sure. 529 01:21:18,647 --> 01:21:20,174 Sure, why not? 530 01:21:21,686 --> 01:21:23,726 Yeah, that's the way it is... 531 01:21:44,271 --> 01:21:50,915 Tonight we're going to discuss the chances and limits of politicization through art. 532 01:21:51,021 --> 01:21:55,242 If I could determine what is, then I could quickly agree with you. 533 01:21:55,340 --> 01:21:58,188 I don't want to keep determining what is, 534 01:21:58,284 --> 01:22:03,073 I want to get an idea of what might be desirable for people. 535 01:22:03,210 --> 01:22:06,242 You talk about innovation as if no one had ever thought of it before... 536 01:22:06,345 --> 01:22:08,134 You're just insinuating that... 537 01:22:08,233 --> 01:22:13,697 Then let me speak for five minutes. 538 01:22:14,726 --> 01:22:19,067 You won't commit yourself. That's your unbridled liberalism. 539 01:22:19,173 --> 01:22:21,660 That's no use to political activists. 540 01:22:21,925 --> 01:22:25,306 - My desire for freedom. - Fine, I'd call it something else. 541 01:22:25,411 --> 01:22:28,192 But let me talk about Beuys' political praxis. 542 01:22:28,290 --> 01:22:33,209 I believe the term "politics," as it's used currently, 543 01:22:33,473 --> 01:22:36,767 is what's preventing genuine change. 544 01:22:36,864 --> 01:22:41,173 Joseph Beuys, you're Germany's most controversial artist. 545 01:22:41,278 --> 01:22:43,286 But you're also a member of the Green Party. 546 01:22:43,390 --> 01:22:45,147 Are you serious about that? 547 01:22:45,245 --> 01:22:50,481 Of course. You have to achieve things via a future-oriented movement. 548 01:22:57,753 --> 01:22:59,989 The conference is open! 549 01:23:00,888 --> 01:23:03,441 I would like to point out 550 01:23:03,544 --> 01:23:05,682 that the process of forming opinions 551 01:23:05,783 --> 01:23:11,117 is incredibly laborious for a young party such as ourselves. 552 01:23:11,222 --> 01:23:13,905 Beuys really didn't need that. 553 01:23:14,453 --> 01:23:18,195 He got him self involved with the formation of a party 554 01:23:18,292 --> 01:23:21,073 and with everything that went along with that. 555 01:23:22,706 --> 01:23:25,673 You wouldn't believe what torture that is. 556 01:23:26,353 --> 01:23:29,669 Especially in the case of a party that isn't a party, 557 01:23:29,776 --> 01:23:31,662 where everything's totally haywire. 558 01:23:31,759 --> 01:23:35,173 I repeat: no one is being rejected! 559 01:23:35,310 --> 01:23:39,848 You had nature lovers colliding with hard-core Marxists. 560 01:23:39,949 --> 01:23:42,501 Then there were die-hard Nazis 561 01:23:42,604 --> 01:23:48,320 who had somehow become acceptable because of their holistic philosophy. 562 01:23:48,426 --> 01:23:52,615 And then there were the left-wingers from Hamburg. 563 01:23:56,648 --> 01:23:59,167 Beuys dove right in. 564 01:23:59,303 --> 01:24:01,507 We'll have to keep working with it, of course. 565 01:24:01,766 --> 01:24:04,101 It won't stop you from continuing to work with the Greens. 566 01:24:04,198 --> 01:24:06,238 No, it won't stop me. 567 01:24:08,453 --> 01:24:10,842 He really believed in that movement, 568 01:24:10,947 --> 01:24:14,842 in the founding of the Green Party, and Beuys said: 569 01:24:14,946 --> 01:24:18,044 'We've witnessed a historic day today." 570 01:24:18,146 --> 01:24:23,327 He was so certain that it was the anti-party party. 571 01:24:27,327 --> 01:24:29,148 A Green Party program? 572 01:24:30,685 --> 01:24:31,831 A Program? 573 01:24:31,965 --> 01:24:33,656 - Green Party program? - Thanks. 574 01:24:33,757 --> 01:24:34,903 How about you? 575 01:24:35,804 --> 01:24:37,746 Maybe he'll give us his autograph. 576 01:24:39,323 --> 01:24:44,144 - I think more of you as an artist. - Hold on! What do I get in return? 577 01:24:44,250 --> 01:24:48,308 Will you vote for the Green Party if I draw a picture for you? 578 01:24:50,072 --> 01:24:55,090 Casual elegance reigned at Düsseldorf gallery Denise Rene last night. 579 01:24:55,190 --> 01:24:58,452 And men he came: Andy Warhol, pale, shy, 580 01:24:58,550 --> 01:25:02,858 constantly searching for Joseph Beuys, who was nowhere to be seen. 581 01:25:02,964 --> 01:25:07,022 Joseph Beuys, who we're still waiting for, has become such a politician 582 01:25:07,123 --> 01:25:11,879 that he knows how to make a dramatic entrance. 583 01:25:11,985 --> 01:25:16,142 I remember driving back from Brussels with him one time. 584 01:25:16,751 --> 01:25:20,613 And I said... Because we were all very tired, 585 01:25:20,719 --> 01:25:24,940 we'd started out from Brussels at five or six in the morning, 586 01:25:25,037 --> 01:25:28,167 and during the journey back he said, 587 01:25:28,268 --> 01:25:31,169 "I've got to get back, I can't stop for long." 588 01:25:31,276 --> 01:25:34,788 So we took a lovely photo of him at a roadhouse, 589 01:25:35,370 --> 01:25:38,883 on which he wrote, "The Man at the Main Lever." 590 01:25:39,401 --> 01:25:43,426 And I think that's how he saw himself: the man at the main lever. 591 01:25:49,318 --> 01:25:50,398 Beuys speaking. 592 01:25:55,108 --> 01:25:57,344 - Good morning, Mr. Beuys in Düsseldorf. Morning. 593 01:26:07,776 --> 01:26:09,085 Beuys speaking. 594 01:26:10,464 --> 01:26:11,958 Who called? 595 01:26:14,910 --> 01:26:18,041 And during the journey he said, 596 01:26:18,141 --> 01:26:20,116 "I've got so many appointments, 597 01:26:20,221 --> 01:26:23,929 from now on I'll start at four in the morning..." 598 01:26:24,027 --> 01:26:27,802 - Four in the morning. -"...or at five, or at six." 599 01:26:28,571 --> 01:26:31,865 I thought, "How long can anyone keep that up?" 600 01:26:34,904 --> 01:26:36,399 Beuys speaking. 601 01:26:37,208 --> 01:26:39,411 I don't have time at the moment. 602 01:26:40,246 --> 01:26:44,337 It's wearing me out, but that's necessary. 603 01:26:45,078 --> 01:26:46,801 Why is it necessary? 604 01:26:46,901 --> 01:26:48,941 - Sorry? - Why is it necessary? 605 01:26:49,044 --> 01:26:53,963 - Why've you got to wear yourself out? - Everyone has to wear themselves out. 606 01:26:54,067 --> 01:26:58,921 It'd be bad if they were good and died without wearing themselves out. 607 01:26:59,026 --> 01:27:02,669 - Okay. - Everything has to be used up anyway. 608 01:27:03,727 --> 01:27:06,509 It doesn't matter what profession you're in, 609 01:27:06,606 --> 01:27:08,515 you have to wear yourself out. 610 01:27:09,966 --> 01:27:14,853 You have to burn yourself down to ashes, otherwise there's no point. 611 01:27:14,956 --> 01:27:19,112 - If you're still good, that's bad. - Then it's frustrating, isn't it? 612 01:27:20,715 --> 01:27:24,969 "Everything's still so good!" And then you kick the bucket, that's bad. 613 01:27:25,769 --> 01:27:28,769 From this perspective, not from another. 614 01:30:51,083 --> 01:30:54,465 - In which area are you laziest? - Sorry? 615 01:30:54,570 --> 01:30:56,905 In which area are you laziest? 616 01:30:57,674 --> 01:31:01,797 - Laziest? - Yes, laziest. 617 01:31:04,104 --> 01:31:07,900 - Maybe I don't understand your question. - I just said... 618 01:31:09,126 --> 01:31:14,177 A time always comes when you're tempted to retire from active life. 619 01:31:16,804 --> 01:31:20,447 When you say, "Maybe it would be better if I went to Australia." 620 01:31:20,547 --> 01:31:22,336 That's not a joke. 621 01:31:23,298 --> 01:31:24,248 Is it? 622 01:31:31,135 --> 01:31:33,143 You mustn't retire. 623 01:31:33,279 --> 01:31:36,693 I'm not going to. I'm not going to retire. 624 01:31:37,630 --> 01:31:41,426 I'm not going to retire. But if at some time I... 625 01:31:41,533 --> 01:31:44,915 It really would be a historical disaster. 626 01:31:45,020 --> 01:31:48,150 That's why I'm not going to retire. 627 01:31:49,563 --> 01:31:51,766 I'm not going to retire at all. 628 01:31:54,233 --> 01:31:58,028 But you're bound to say at some point, "Kiss my ass! 629 01:31:59,351 --> 01:32:02,995 I'm going to wander dreamily around the world." 630 01:32:04,470 --> 01:32:06,859 What would the alternative be? 631 01:32:08,853 --> 01:32:13,838 The alternative would be to carry on in a form where, to a certain extent, 632 01:32:14,099 --> 01:32:16,488 you're well-known. 633 01:32:17,138 --> 01:32:20,007 To stubbornly carry on doing the same thing. 634 01:33:54,645 --> 01:34:00,273 I can see Beuys's loneliness and his incredible sensitivity, 635 01:34:00,947 --> 01:34:03,729 his porousness, his... 636 01:34:04,594 --> 01:34:05,739 That... 637 01:34:07,058 --> 01:34:11,399 That he was always inside his wound, inside his hurt. 638 01:34:12,752 --> 01:34:17,257 And that makes you admire this incredible strength even more, 639 01:34:17,390 --> 01:34:21,284 which he used as an antidote, his courage as well. 640 01:34:21,997 --> 01:34:24,233 Mr. Beuys, I don't want to mention your hat... 641 01:34:24,332 --> 01:34:26,536 Mr. Beuys, you've now... 642 01:34:26,635 --> 01:34:28,130 Mr. Beuys, what is art? 643 01:34:29,002 --> 01:34:30,431 Beuys! 644 01:35:46,835 --> 01:35:50,959 ONLY 2,272 DAYS UNTIL THE END OF CAPITALISM 645 01:35:51,058 --> 01:35:52,073 - Yes. - Yes. 646 01:35:52,177 --> 01:35:57,741 How to topple capitalism, that's how I'd have to put it. 647 01:35:57,840 --> 01:35:58,789 Yes. 648 01:36:06,350 --> 01:36:11,531 LAST WARNING TO DEUTSCHE BAN K: NEXT TIME WELL NAME NAMES AND IDEAS 649 01:36:11,627 --> 01:36:14,441 - Mr. Beuys, are you a radical? - Yes, I am. 650 01:36:15,051 --> 01:36:17,440 A famous radical. Is that possible? 651 01:36:17,546 --> 01:36:22,848 It would be good if radicals became famous and people listened to them. 652 01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:28,709 In '83, the Greens were going full steam 653 01:36:28,839 --> 01:36:31,687 and for the first time they had a real chance 654 01:36:31,781 --> 01:36:33,887 of getting into parliament. 655 01:36:34,150 --> 01:36:38,655 And no one understood why he kept going on about the term "capital." 656 01:36:38,755 --> 01:36:41,341 It was much too lofty, even for the Greens. 657 01:36:41,443 --> 01:36:45,119 And now I want to get to the heart of the matter. 658 01:36:45,217 --> 01:36:47,737 Because whenever a democratic process 659 01:36:47,841 --> 01:36:52,510 dares touch the actual nerve of societal change, 660 01:36:52,608 --> 01:36:58,105 the power relations around money undermine every attempt at democracy. 661 01:36:58,206 --> 01:37:01,336 The power of money mus! be broken. 662 01:37:02,140 --> 01:37:06,264 Today money is a tradable commodity you can speculate with IT. 663 01:37:07,228 --> 01:37:09,049 So in me economic sphere, 664 01:37:09,179 --> 01:37:12,724 money is an entity that shouldn't be a commodity 665 01:37:12,826 --> 01:37:14,233 bu! because R is a commodity, 666 01:37:14,489 --> 01:37:18,929 this character must be brought into line with the whole of democracy. 667 01:37:26,070 --> 01:37:30,324 We went to the conference and didn't think anything of it. 668 01:37:30,420 --> 01:37:31,795 We thought... 669 01:37:31,892 --> 01:37:35,121 Because Beuys had been the top candidate three years before. 670 01:37:35,218 --> 01:37:39,975 And you sensed immediately that the atmosphere was really peculiar. 671 01:37:40,849 --> 01:37:43,663 Who's still interested in you? 672 01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,378 - Who do you still provoke...? - Quiet, please! 673 01:37:48,654 --> 01:37:50,628 Could you be quieter, please? 674 01:37:50,734 --> 01:37:55,817 And some of the delegates really went after him. 675 01:37:55,917 --> 01:37:58,371 "Beuys, go off and play with your fat!" 676 01:37:59,660 --> 01:38:00,739 Or... 677 01:38:03,466 --> 01:38:05,539 "Beuys, you're costing us votes." 678 01:38:08,425 --> 01:38:11,719 Please be quiet in the hall, or we can't hear anything up here. 679 01:38:11,816 --> 01:38:17,052 We quickly figured out that the candidates had already been selected. 680 01:38:20,678 --> 01:38:24,223 It was clear he wasn't one of them. 681 01:38:28,547 --> 01:38:31,482 He was being dropped by his own people. 682 01:42:16,959 --> 01:42:19,806 There's no point in me standing up in front of someone, 683 01:42:19,901 --> 01:42:23,196 or in front of lots of people... 684 01:42:25,788 --> 01:42:27,991 without there being a question. 685 01:42:28,091 --> 01:42:33,306 What's the point of just foisting an issue on people? 686 01:42:33,401 --> 01:42:37,655 Because they might not even be interested in it. 687 01:42:37,912 --> 01:42:41,109 I have to speak in a way that I know 688 01:42:41,239 --> 01:42:43,825 that there's something inside of the people, 689 01:42:43,927 --> 01:42:45,170 that there's a question 690 01:42:45,270 --> 01:42:48,978 that I can try to answer, that I can try 691 01:42:49,749 --> 01:42:51,538 to solve together with them. 692 01:42:51,636 --> 01:42:53,676 It's actually a joint task.