1
00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:23,999
"Howl" for Carl Solomon.

2
00:01:27,337 --> 00:01:30,380
I saw the best minds
of my generation

3
00:01:30,507 --> 00:01:32,633
destroyed by madness,

4
00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:36,637
starving hysterical naked,

5
00:01:37,263 --> 00:01:40,265
dragging themselves through
the negro streets at dawn

6
00:01:40,391 --> 00:01:42,518
looking for an angry fix,

7
00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:45,646
angel-headed hipsters burning

8
00:01:45,772 --> 00:01:49,024
for the ancient heavenly
connection to the starry dynamo

9
00:01:49,150 --> 00:01:51,068
in the machinery of night,

10
00:01:51,444 --> 00:01:53,779
who poverty and tatters and

11
00:01:53,947 --> 00:01:55,781
hollow-eyed and high

12
00:01:55,949 --> 00:02:00,661
sat up smoking in the supernatural
darkness of cold-water flats

13
00:02:00,787 --> 00:02:04,998
floating across the tops
of cities contemplating jazz!

14
00:04:08,289 --> 00:04:11,291
Sometimes I feel in command
when I'm writing.

15
00:04:11,751 --> 00:04:15,254
When I'm in the heat
of some truthful tears, yes.

16
00:04:15,922 --> 00:04:18,423
Other times...
most of the time, not.

17
00:04:18,549 --> 00:04:22,135
You know, just diddling around...

18
00:04:22,262 --> 00:04:24,846
woodcarving, you know,
finding a pretty shape,

19
00:04:24,973 --> 00:04:26,598
like most of my poetry.

20
00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:32,688
There's only been a few times
when I've reached a state of...

21
00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:34,898
complete control...

22
00:04:35,650 --> 00:04:37,985
Probably a piece of "Howl,"
and...

23
00:04:38,111 --> 00:04:40,779
one or two moments
in other poems.

24
00:04:46,035 --> 00:04:48,829
The beginning
of the fear for me was

25
00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:53,959
what would my father think
of something that I would write.

26
00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:56,712
At the time, writing "Howl,"

27
00:04:56,879 --> 00:04:58,380
I assumed when writing it that

28
00:04:58,506 --> 00:04:59,840
it was not something
that would be published,

29
00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:00,966
because...

30
00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:04,886
I wouldn't want my daddy
to see what was in there.

31
00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:07,347
So, I assumed it wouldn't be
published, therefore, I could

32
00:05:07,473 --> 00:05:08,974
write anything that I wanted to.

33
00:06:04,947 --> 00:06:07,824
I saw the best minds
of my generation

34
00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:09,868
destroyed by madness,

35
00:06:11,037 --> 00:06:13,705
starving hysterical naked,

36
00:06:14,207 --> 00:06:17,000
dragging themselves through
the negro streets at dawn

37
00:06:17,126 --> 00:06:19,544
looking for an angry fix,

38
00:06:22,298 --> 00:06:24,508
angel-headed hipsters

39
00:06:24,634 --> 00:06:27,344
burning for the
ancient heavenly connection

40
00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:30,555
to the starry dynamo
in the machinery of night,

41
00:06:33,518 --> 00:06:35,894
who poverty and tatters

42
00:06:36,020 --> 00:06:37,938
and hollow-eyed and high

43
00:06:38,064 --> 00:06:40,524
sat up smoking
in the supernatural darkness

44
00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:42,651
of cold-water flats

45
00:06:42,777 --> 00:06:47,114
floating across the tops of
cities, contemplating jazz,

46
00:06:48,699 --> 00:06:52,202
who passed through universities
with radiant cool eyes

47
00:06:52,328 --> 00:06:54,079
hallucinating Arkansas and

48
00:06:54,247 --> 00:06:57,999
Blake-light tragedy
among the scholars of war,

49
00:06:59,252 --> 00:07:01,962
who were expelled
from the academies for crazy

50
00:07:02,088 --> 00:07:06,049
and publishing obscene odes
on the windows of the skull,

51
00:07:06,551 --> 00:07:09,719
who cowered in
unshaven rooms in underwear,

52
00:07:09,846 --> 00:07:11,972
burning their money
in wastebaskets

53
00:07:12,098 --> 00:07:15,142
and listening to the Terror
through the wall,

54
00:07:16,102 --> 00:07:18,103
who got busted
in their pubic beards

55
00:07:18,229 --> 00:07:22,232
returning through Laredo with a
belt of marijuana for New York,

56
00:07:22,817 --> 00:07:25,360
who ate fire
in paint hotels or drank

57
00:07:25,486 --> 00:07:28,155
turpentine in Paradise Alley,

58
00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:29,614
death

59
00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:33,869
or purgatoried their torsos
night after night with dreams,

60
00:07:33,995 --> 00:07:36,788
with drugs,
with waking nightmares,

61
00:07:36,956 --> 00:07:41,543
alcohol and cock
and endless balls,

62
00:07:50,761 --> 00:07:53,013
What I wanted to read into
the record, Your Honor, is

63
00:07:53,139 --> 00:07:56,391
not very much,
but it is pertinent to our case.

64
00:07:57,059 --> 00:07:59,644
Why aren't you at the trial?

65
00:08:00,229 --> 00:08:01,980
'Cause...

66
00:08:02,648 --> 00:08:04,608
the trial's not about me.

67
00:08:05,109 --> 00:08:08,320
As much as I have to thank them

68
00:08:08,446 --> 00:08:10,447
completely for my fame...

69
00:08:10,573 --> 00:08:12,949
It's the publisher,
Lawrence Ferlinghetti that was

70
00:08:13,075 --> 00:08:15,827
busted for selling

71
00:08:15,995 --> 00:08:17,954
obscene materials.

72
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,834
What I want to show is on
the first page inside of "Howl."

73
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,588
It says, "All these books
are published in Heaven."

74
00:08:27,298 --> 00:08:27,964
And...

75
00:08:28,257 --> 00:08:31,009
I don't quite understand that,
but anyway,

76
00:08:31,135 --> 00:08:32,344
let the record show, Your Honor,

77
00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:35,263
it's published by
the City Lights Pocketbook Shop.

78
00:08:35,848 --> 00:08:38,517
Mr. Ferlinghetti could go
to jail if convicted?

79
00:08:38,684 --> 00:08:41,102
I hope not.
That would be terrible.

80
00:09:04,126 --> 00:09:05,460
May I have your name, please?

81
00:09:05,753 --> 00:09:06,920
Gail Potter.

82
00:09:07,046 --> 00:09:09,548
And have you done
any writing yourself?

83
00:09:09,674 --> 00:09:11,341
Yes, I have done considerable.

84
00:09:11,467 --> 00:09:15,554
I was on an NBC station for
10 years while I was teaching.

85
00:09:15,888 --> 00:09:17,597
I was
community service director,

86
00:09:17,723 --> 00:09:19,474
educational coordinator...

87
00:09:19,976 --> 00:09:21,685
I have rewritten "Faust."

88
00:09:21,811 --> 00:09:24,229
It took me three years
to do that, but I did it.

89
00:09:24,397 --> 00:09:25,939
I rewrote "Everyman."

90
00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:30,068
That isn't as funny
as you might think.

91
00:09:30,236 --> 00:09:31,069
Pardon me, madam.

92
00:09:31,195 --> 00:09:32,237
Ladies and gentlemen,

93
00:09:32,363 --> 00:09:34,447
this is a trial
that involves serious issues.

94
00:09:34,574 --> 00:09:36,157
Now kindly accord the witness

95
00:09:36,284 --> 00:09:37,867
the courtesy you would want
to be accorded.

96
00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:38,577
Alright.

97
00:09:38,744 --> 00:09:41,871
And did you form an opinion as
to whether or not the book called

98
00:09:41,998 --> 00:09:45,917
"Howl and Other Poems"
has any literary merit?

99
00:09:47,086 --> 00:09:49,504
I think it has
no literary merit.

100
00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:53,633
Go ahead.

101
00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:55,969
In order to have literary style,
you must have

102
00:09:56,095 --> 00:09:59,306
form, diction,
fluidity, clarity.

103
00:09:59,432 --> 00:10:01,766
Now, I am speaking
only of style.

104
00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:04,269
And in content,
every great piece of literature,

105
00:10:04,395 --> 00:10:08,148
anything that can really be
classified as literature, is...

106
00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:09,399
of some moral greatness,

107
00:10:09,525 --> 00:10:11,735
and I think this fails
to the nth degree.

108
00:10:12,236 --> 00:10:13,236
I see.

109
00:10:13,362 --> 00:10:15,280
Can you think of
any other reasons?

110
00:10:15,406 --> 00:10:16,239
Yes...

111
00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:17,532
Use of language.

112
00:10:17,658 --> 00:10:20,327
In regards to the figures
of speech he uses,

113
00:10:20,453 --> 00:10:21,494
he fails in rhetoric,
of course,

114
00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:23,913
for one thing, because
his figures of speech are

115
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,666
crude, and you feel like
you are going through the gutter

116
00:10:26,792 --> 00:10:28,627
when you read that stuff.

117
00:10:28,961 --> 00:10:31,713
I didn't linger on it long,
I assure you.

118
00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:35,091
You may cross-examine.

119
00:10:36,969 --> 00:10:38,303
Step down.

120
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:42,140
There's something more you want?

121
00:10:42,475 --> 00:10:43,808
Step down.

122
00:10:44,935 --> 00:10:46,978
Mr. Ehrlich doesn't want
to cross-examine.

123
00:10:47,104 --> 00:10:48,980
You're through with me?

124
00:10:49,315 --> 00:10:50,315
Step down.

125
00:10:52,151 --> 00:10:54,527
What is "The Beat Generation"?

126
00:10:56,989 --> 00:10:59,157
There is no Beat Generation.

127
00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:03,244
It's just a bunch of guys,
trying to get published.

128
00:11:05,748 --> 00:11:09,334
Why don't you tell me
how you started writing poetry?

129
00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:14,839
I started writing poetry
because I was a dope,

130
00:11:15,758 --> 00:11:17,509
and my father wrote poetry.

131
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:21,596
So I began writing
rhymes like him.

132
00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:24,808
And then I went to Columbia
University and I fell in love

133
00:11:25,059 --> 00:11:26,893
with Jack Kerouac.

134
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:43,451
Until I was 18, I was a virgin.

135
00:11:44,245 --> 00:11:47,330
I was unable to reach out
to anybody's body.

136
00:11:47,957 --> 00:11:49,624
To reach out to desire.

137
00:11:50,793 --> 00:11:52,043
I just felt...

138
00:11:52,795 --> 00:11:54,170
Chained.

139
00:11:59,427 --> 00:12:01,845
Jack gave me permission
to open up.

140
00:12:02,513 --> 00:12:04,180
He's a romantic poet.

141
00:12:05,391 --> 00:12:07,517
And he taught me that
writing is personal,

142
00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:11,062
that it comes from
the writer's own person.

143
00:12:11,397 --> 00:12:12,021
His body,

144
00:12:12,523 --> 00:12:13,940
his breathing rhythm,

145
00:12:14,358 --> 00:12:15,400
his actual talk.

146
00:12:18,112 --> 00:12:22,198
Eventually I developed a much
deeper sense of confession.

147
00:12:22,324 --> 00:12:23,908
I needed to...

148
00:12:24,034 --> 00:12:28,413
express my feelings to him,
but he didn't want to hear them.

149
00:12:28,539 --> 00:12:31,583
So I had to find a new way
of expressing them...

150
00:12:32,293 --> 00:12:34,002
a way that would entrance him.

151
00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,589
This is good here.

152
00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:40,884
"I was offered refreshments
which I accepted.

153
00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:42,761
"I ate a sandwich of pure meat.

154
00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:45,138
"Enormous sandwich of
human flesh, I noticed,

155
00:12:45,264 --> 00:12:46,681
"while I was chewing on it.

156
00:12:46,807 --> 00:12:48,933
"It also included
a dirty asshole!"

157
00:12:49,310 --> 00:12:50,310
That's good!

158
00:12:51,312 --> 00:12:53,897
That's good!
The meat and the asshole.

159
00:12:54,023 --> 00:12:54,731
Allen, alright.

160
00:12:54,857 --> 00:12:57,942
And then I realized
that if I actually

161
00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:02,614
admitted and confessed
the secret tenderness

162
00:13:02,782 --> 00:13:04,949
of my soul in my writing,

163
00:13:05,117 --> 00:13:08,119
he would understand nakedly
who I was. And so...

164
00:13:08,746 --> 00:13:11,289
that sincere talk
replaced the earlier

165
00:13:11,457 --> 00:13:14,709
imitative rhyming
that I was doing for my father.

166
00:13:16,921 --> 00:13:20,965
Jack was the first person
I really opened up to and said,

167
00:13:21,967 --> 00:13:23,635
"I'm a homosexual."

168
00:13:26,263 --> 00:13:30,725
I very soon realized that nobody
was really shocked by anything.

169
00:13:31,268 --> 00:13:33,895
Unless you're out
murdering people, you know,

170
00:13:34,814 --> 00:13:38,858
People would never
really be shocked by

171
00:13:38,984 --> 00:13:41,027
an expression of feeling.

172
00:13:45,658 --> 00:13:47,700
Really I wrote "Howl" for Jack.

173
00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:54,999
Who chained themselves to
subways for the endless ride

174
00:13:55,167 --> 00:13:58,169
from Battery to holy Bronx
on benzedrine

175
00:13:58,420 --> 00:14:02,090
until the noise of wheels
and children brought them down

176
00:14:02,216 --> 00:14:05,760
shuddering mouth-wracked
and battered bleak of brain

177
00:14:05,886 --> 00:14:10,473
all drained of brilliance
in the drear light of Zoo,

178
00:14:10,683 --> 00:14:12,934
Who talked continuously 70 hours

179
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:16,020
from park to pad
to bar to Bellevue

180
00:14:16,188 --> 00:14:18,731
to museum
to the Brooklyn Bridge,

181
00:14:21,068 --> 00:14:24,279
A lost battalion of
platonic conversationalists

182
00:14:24,405 --> 00:14:25,947
jumping down the stoops,

183
00:14:26,073 --> 00:14:29,242
off fire escapes,
off windowsills,

184
00:14:29,368 --> 00:14:30,910
off Empire State,

185
00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:32,787
out of the moon,

186
00:14:35,374 --> 00:14:38,543
yacketayakking
screaming vomiting

187
00:14:38,669 --> 00:14:42,213
whispering facts and memories
and anecdotes and

188
00:14:42,339 --> 00:14:47,260
eyeball kicks and shocks
of hospitals and jails and wars

189
00:14:51,140 --> 00:14:54,475
who lit cigarettes
in boxcars boxcars boxcars

190
00:14:54,602 --> 00:14:59,439
racketing through snow toward
lonesome farms in grand-father night

191
00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:03,151
who studied Plotinus
Poe St. John of the Cross,

192
00:15:03,402 --> 00:15:05,612
telepathy and bop kabbalah

193
00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:10,366
because the cosmos instinctively
vibrated at their feet in Kansas,

194
00:15:11,410 --> 00:15:13,411
who loned it
through the streets of Idaho

195
00:15:13,537 --> 00:15:15,955
seeking visionary Indian angels

196
00:15:16,081 --> 00:15:19,125
who were
visionary Indian angels,

197
00:15:19,752 --> 00:15:22,921
who jumped in limousines
with the Chinaman of Oklahoma

198
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:27,634
on the impulse of winter midnight
streetlight small-town rain,

199
00:15:28,844 --> 00:15:30,929
who reappeared on the West Coast

200
00:15:31,096 --> 00:15:34,766
investigating the FBI
in beards and shorts

201
00:15:34,892 --> 00:15:37,101
with big pacifist eyes

202
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:39,187
sexy in their dark skin

203
00:15:39,313 --> 00:15:42,774
passing out
incomprehensible leaflets,

204
00:15:44,443 --> 00:15:46,653
who burned cigarette holes
in their arms

205
00:15:46,779 --> 00:15:50,615
protesting the narcotic
tobacco haze of Capitalism,

206
00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:57,205
who distributed Super-Communist
pamphlets in Union Square

207
00:15:57,331 --> 00:16:00,291
weeping and undressing
while the sirens of Los Alamos

208
00:16:00,459 --> 00:16:03,252
wailed them down
and wailed down Wall,

209
00:16:03,379 --> 00:16:06,464
and the Staten Island Ferry
also wailed,

210
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:13,429
who let themselves be fucked in
the ass by saintly motorcyclists

211
00:16:13,555 --> 00:16:16,057
and screamed with joy,

212
00:16:19,311 --> 00:16:24,482
who blew and were blown by those
human seraphim, the sailors,

213
00:16:24,608 --> 00:16:28,486
caresses of Atlantic
and Caribbean love.

214
00:16:37,621 --> 00:16:40,498
The problem, when it
comes to literature, is this:

215
00:16:41,291 --> 00:16:44,460
There are many writers
who have preconceived ideas

216
00:16:44,586 --> 00:16:46,170
about what literature
is supposed to be,

217
00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:50,383
but their ideas seem to preclude

218
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:52,885
everything that makes them
most interesting

219
00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:55,013
in casual conversation.

220
00:16:55,431 --> 00:16:56,347
Their faggishness,

221
00:16:56,598 --> 00:16:57,974
their solitude,

222
00:16:58,142 --> 00:16:59,183
their neuroses,

223
00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:01,519
their goofiness,

224
00:17:01,645 --> 00:17:02,854
their campiness,

225
00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:06,691
or, even
their masculinity at times.

226
00:17:06,817 --> 00:17:09,485
Because they think that
they're gonna write something

227
00:17:09,611 --> 00:17:11,863
that sounds like something else
that they've read before,

228
00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:13,239
instead of

229
00:17:13,365 --> 00:17:14,532
sounds like them.

230
00:17:14,658 --> 00:17:17,035
Or, comes from their own life.

231
00:17:18,245 --> 00:17:19,328
We all talk amongst ourselves;

232
00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:21,372
we have a common understanding,

233
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:25,168
we say anything we want to say.
We talk about our assholes,

234
00:17:25,294 --> 00:17:26,669
we talk about our cocks,

235
00:17:26,795 --> 00:17:29,589
we talk about
who we fucked last night,

236
00:17:29,715 --> 00:17:31,841
or who we're gonna
fuck tomorrow,

237
00:17:31,967 --> 00:17:34,719
or what kind of
love affair we're in, or

238
00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:38,431
when we got drunk and had a broom
stick shoved up our ass in the

239
00:17:38,557 --> 00:17:40,349
Hotel Ambassador in Prague...

240
00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:45,229
I mean, everyone tells
one's friends about that! Right?

241
00:17:45,397 --> 00:17:46,272
So...

242
00:17:46,815 --> 00:17:50,359
the question is, what happens
when you make a distinction

243
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:53,571
between what you tell your friends
and what you tell your Muse?

244
00:17:53,822 --> 00:17:56,574
The trick is to break down
that distinction,

245
00:17:56,742 --> 00:17:59,077
to approach your Muse as

246
00:17:59,244 --> 00:18:02,830
frankly as you would talk
to yourself or to your friends.

247
00:18:03,123 --> 00:18:10,797
It's the ability
to commit to writing - to write -

248
00:18:11,256 --> 00:18:12,882
the same way that

249
00:18:13,008 --> 00:18:14,175
you are.

250
00:18:15,594 --> 00:18:19,138
Who balled in the morning
in the evenings

251
00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:24,477
in rose gardens and the grass
of public parks and cemeteries

252
00:18:24,603 --> 00:18:29,816
scattering their semen freely
to whomever come who may,

253
00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:33,402
Who hiccuped endlessly
trying to giggle

254
00:18:33,529 --> 00:18:37,990
but wound up with a sob behind
a partition in a Turkish bath

255
00:18:38,117 --> 00:18:43,037
with a blonde and naked angel
came to pierce them with a sword,

256
00:18:43,163 --> 00:18:46,791
The act of writing becomes,
like, a meditation exercise.

257
00:18:49,545 --> 00:18:52,505
If you walk down the street
in New York for a few blocks,

258
00:18:52,631 --> 00:18:56,467
you'll get this
gargantuan feeling of buildings.

259
00:18:56,635 --> 00:19:00,888
And, if you walk all day,
you'll be on the verge of tears.

260
00:19:01,306 --> 00:19:04,892
But, you have to walk all day
before you get that sensation.

261
00:19:06,228 --> 00:19:09,730
What I mean is, if you write
all day, you'll get into it.

262
00:19:09,857 --> 00:19:13,317
Into your body, into your feelings,
into your consciousness...

263
00:19:16,363 --> 00:19:18,990
I don't write enough
in that way.

264
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:35,673
Who lost their loveboys to
the three old shrews of fate

265
00:19:35,966 --> 00:19:40,011
the one eyed shrew
of the heterosexual dollar

266
00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:43,389
the one eyed shrew
that winks out of the womb

267
00:19:43,515 --> 00:19:47,059
and the one eyed shrew that
does nothing but sit on her ass

268
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:51,814
and snip the intellectual golden
threads of the craftsman's loom

269
00:19:52,816 --> 00:19:56,652
who copulated ecstatic and
insatiate with a bottle of beer,

270
00:19:56,778 --> 00:19:59,322
a sweetheart,
a package of cigarettes,

271
00:19:59,448 --> 00:20:01,699
a candle and fell off the bed

272
00:20:01,867 --> 00:20:04,952
and continued along the floor
and down the hall

273
00:20:05,078 --> 00:20:07,205
and ended fainting on the wall

274
00:20:07,372 --> 00:20:09,373
with a vision of
ultimate cunt and come

275
00:20:09,541 --> 00:20:12,376
eluding the last gyzym
of consciousness,

276
00:20:17,591 --> 00:20:20,718
who faded out
in vast sordid movies,

277
00:20:20,844 --> 00:20:22,678
were shifted in dreams,

278
00:20:22,804 --> 00:20:26,390
woke on a sudden Manhattan,
and picked themselves up

279
00:20:26,516 --> 00:20:30,311
out of basements
hungover with heartless Tokay

280
00:20:30,437 --> 00:20:33,564
and horrors of
Third Avenue iron dreams

281
00:20:33,732 --> 00:20:36,734
and stumbled to
unemployment offices,

282
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:43,366
who created
great suicidal dramas

283
00:20:43,492 --> 00:20:45,910
on the apartment cliff-banks
of the Hudson

284
00:20:46,036 --> 00:20:49,497
under the wartime blue
floodlight of the moon

285
00:20:49,623 --> 00:20:53,584
and their heads shall be crowned
with laurel in oblivion,

286
00:20:54,253 --> 00:20:56,379
who wept at the romance
of the streets

287
00:20:56,505 --> 00:21:00,216
with their pushcarts
full of onions and bad music,

288
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:04,387
who sat in boxes breathing
in the darkness under the bridge,

289
00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:08,808
and rose up to build
harpsichords in their lofts,

290
00:21:14,898 --> 00:21:18,818
who scribbled all night rocking
and rolling over lofty incantations

291
00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:22,655
which in the yellow morning
were stanzas of gibberish,

292
00:21:23,615 --> 00:21:26,826
who were burned alive
in their innocent flannel suits

293
00:21:26,952 --> 00:21:28,077
on Madison Avenue

294
00:21:28,203 --> 00:21:30,371
amid blasts of leaden verse

295
00:21:30,497 --> 00:21:34,458
and the tanked-up clatter
of the iron regiments of fashion

296
00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:39,338
and the nitroglycerine shrieks
of the fairies of advertising

297
00:21:39,464 --> 00:21:43,092
and the mustard gas
of sinister intelligent editors,

298
00:21:43,218 --> 00:21:48,139
or were run down by the drunken
taxicabs of Absolute Reality.

299
00:21:52,644 --> 00:21:56,272
Would you say that
"Howl" has any literary merit?

300
00:21:56,398 --> 00:21:57,523
Yes.

301
00:21:57,649 --> 00:22:01,819
And I presume you understand
the whole thing, is that right?

302
00:22:02,029 --> 00:22:03,321
I hope so.

303
00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:06,157
It's not always easy
to know that one

304
00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:09,410
understands exactly what
a contemporary poet is saying,

305
00:22:09,536 --> 00:22:10,786
but I think I do.

306
00:22:11,163 --> 00:22:14,123
Well, let's go
into some of this.

307
00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:19,795
"With dreams, with drugs,
with waking nightmares,

308
00:22:19,921 --> 00:22:24,216
"alcohol and cock
and endless balls."

309
00:22:25,302 --> 00:22:27,595
What significance
does that have to you?

310
00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:29,472
Well...

311
00:22:30,682 --> 00:22:34,602
there are uprooted people
wandering around the United States,

312
00:22:34,853 --> 00:22:35,895
dreaming,

313
00:22:36,605 --> 00:22:37,855
drugged...

314
00:22:38,315 --> 00:22:39,857
That's clear isn't it?

315
00:22:39,983 --> 00:22:42,610
Even their waking hours
like nightmares,

316
00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:45,363
loaded with liquor and...

317
00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:48,240
enjoying, I take it,

318
00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:52,203
a variety of indiscriminate
sexual experience.

319
00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,831
You understand what
"angelheaded hipsters

320
00:22:55,957 --> 00:22:58,709
"burning for the ancient
heavenly connection

321
00:22:58,877 --> 00:23:02,505
"to the starry dynamo in the
machinery of night" means?

322
00:23:03,673 --> 00:23:07,385
Sir, you can't translate
poetry into prose.

323
00:23:07,844 --> 00:23:09,470
That's why it is poetry.

324
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:12,223
But what are
"angelheaded hipsters"?

325
00:23:29,366 --> 00:23:32,451
I was working as a copyboy
at Associated Press,

326
00:23:32,577 --> 00:23:35,788
and I was able to manage things.

327
00:23:35,914 --> 00:23:38,916
Except that I was living in a
$13-a-month, cold-water apartment

328
00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:41,585
filled with junkies and thieves.

329
00:23:42,712 --> 00:23:46,424
So the place was being filled
with stolen silverware and

330
00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:48,384
beautiful oaken furniture

331
00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:51,387
taken from the lobbies
of apartment buildings.

332
00:23:53,723 --> 00:23:55,474
At a certain point,

333
00:23:55,767 --> 00:23:58,686
I figured that things were
getting too hot, and that...

334
00:23:58,812 --> 00:24:00,771
I'd better get out of there.
You know, get out from under.

335
00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:01,647
So...

336
00:24:01,773 --> 00:24:04,400
I piled myself
and all my manuscripts

337
00:24:04,526 --> 00:24:06,110
into the back of some guy's car

338
00:24:06,278 --> 00:24:08,487
that turned out to be stolen.

339
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:10,364
You know, he had in the back,

340
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:13,659
all these stolen suits
and suitcases and silverware,

341
00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:16,287
and he turned the wrong way
up a one-way street,

342
00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:18,789
at the end of which
there was a police car.

343
00:24:18,915 --> 00:24:21,459
So he swerves his car
to take a side road out,

344
00:24:21,793 --> 00:24:24,879
and skidded and smashed
and papers flying...

345
00:24:25,005 --> 00:24:27,756
my eyeglasses lost,
all the clothes upside down.

346
00:24:28,675 --> 00:24:30,634
I jumped out, looked around, and

347
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,220
went back in the car
to find my notebooks, but

348
00:24:33,346 --> 00:24:36,765
I couldn't find my eyeglasses,
so I couldn't find my papers.

349
00:24:37,392 --> 00:24:39,143
The crowd was gathering around.

350
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:41,979
Chaos.

351
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,526
The easiest way
to get out of the whole thing,

352
00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:49,069
as it turns out, was

353
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:53,365
to just go to the Psychiatric
Institute on 168th Street.

354
00:24:56,995 --> 00:25:01,415
I was in the looney bin
for eight months.

355
00:25:03,043 --> 00:25:04,585
I met Carl Solomon there.

356
00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:08,506
He was thinking
about the void, also

357
00:25:08,632 --> 00:25:10,090
and such problems, and...

358
00:25:10,884 --> 00:25:14,303
We spent months sitting around
asking ourselves whether the

359
00:25:14,429 --> 00:25:16,722
authority of the doctors

360
00:25:16,848 --> 00:25:19,266
and their sense of reality
was right for us

361
00:25:19,392 --> 00:25:22,603
or whether we were right,
or you know what was happening.

362
00:25:24,189 --> 00:25:26,565
And Carl was having problems

363
00:25:26,691 --> 00:25:29,652
because he was receiving
shock treatment.

364
00:25:30,695 --> 00:25:34,198
I didn't have any of that,
no medication, no shock.

365
00:25:35,825 --> 00:25:40,621
'Cause I'd promised the doctor
that I would be heterosexual.

366
00:25:41,122 --> 00:25:43,040
And that's how I got out.

367
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,879
Your mother was
institutionalized, wasn't she?

368
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,555
The concrete void
of insulin Metrazol

369
00:25:57,681 --> 00:26:00,641
electricity hydrotherapy
psychotherapy

370
00:26:00,767 --> 00:26:04,395
occupational therapy
pingpong and amnesia,

371
00:26:04,563 --> 00:26:06,438
who in humorless protest,

372
00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,942
overturned only one
symbolic pingpong table,

373
00:26:10,068 --> 00:26:13,279
resting briefly in catatonia,

374
00:26:13,655 --> 00:26:18,033
returning years later truly bald
except for a wig of blood,

375
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,077
and tears and fingers,

376
00:26:20,245 --> 00:26:22,746
to the visible madman doom
of the wards

377
00:26:22,914 --> 00:26:24,623
of the madtowns of the East,

378
00:26:24,749 --> 00:26:30,504
Pilgrim State's Rockland's
and Greystone's foetid halls...

379
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:32,464
My mother Naomi was...

380
00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:34,592
in and out of
mental institutions

381
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:36,510
from the time I was 6.

382
00:26:36,928 --> 00:26:42,099
When I was 21, I had to sign
the papers for her lobotomy.

383
00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:45,227
She died
at Pilgrim State Hospital.

384
00:26:47,355 --> 00:26:49,773
...bickering with
the echoes of the soul,

385
00:26:49,941 --> 00:26:51,942
rocking and rolling
in the midnight

386
00:26:52,068 --> 00:26:55,237
solitude-bench
dolmen-realms of love,

387
00:26:55,363 --> 00:26:58,282
dream of life a nightmare,

388
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:03,495
bodies turned to stone
as heavy as the moon,

389
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:05,539
with mother

390
00:27:05,665 --> 00:27:07,625
finally fucked,

391
00:27:08,084 --> 00:27:10,377
and the last fantastic book

392
00:27:10,503 --> 00:27:13,547
flung out of the
tenement window,

393
00:27:14,049 --> 00:27:17,301
and the last door closed at 4 am

394
00:27:17,427 --> 00:27:22,264
and the last telephone
slammed at the wall in reply

395
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:25,893
and the last furnished room
emptied down to the last piece

396
00:27:26,019 --> 00:27:27,478
of mental furniture,

397
00:27:27,646 --> 00:27:32,483
a yellow paper rose twisted
on a wire hanger in the closet,

398
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:35,319
and even that imaginary,

399
00:27:35,445 --> 00:27:40,366
nothing but a hopeful little bit
of hallucination

400
00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:43,035
Ah, Carl,

401
00:27:43,453 --> 00:27:45,621
while you are not safe

402
00:27:45,747 --> 00:27:47,665
I am not safe,

403
00:27:48,124 --> 00:27:54,088
and now you're really in
the total animal soup of time...

404
00:28:51,563 --> 00:28:53,814
After I got out of
the mental hospital,

405
00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:56,483
I had a period of fear where...

406
00:28:56,985 --> 00:28:58,902
I felt I had to
get out of New York.

407
00:29:01,406 --> 00:29:04,533
I was questioning
my sense of reality versus the

408
00:29:04,659 --> 00:29:07,411
social sense
that was being imposed on me.

409
00:29:07,662 --> 00:29:09,121
It was a position that...

410
00:29:09,581 --> 00:29:12,332
Many people in the hospital
came out with, you know,

411
00:29:12,459 --> 00:29:14,585
a total self-rejection,

412
00:29:14,961 --> 00:29:17,838
a rejection of, you know,
their own universe.

413
00:29:18,715 --> 00:29:21,049
Lip service, actually, to...

414
00:29:22,177 --> 00:29:24,928
supposedly acceptable
social patterns.

415
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:28,265
But I was falling in love
over and over again,

416
00:29:28,433 --> 00:29:30,392
and I kept writing
my poetry about

417
00:29:30,518 --> 00:29:32,227
the people
I was falling in love with.

418
00:29:32,353 --> 00:29:33,687
All straight men.

419
00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:37,608
And I hitch-hiked cross-country

420
00:29:37,734 --> 00:29:40,486
from Denver
with my friend, Neal Cassady.

421
00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:43,614
And Neal was very frenetic,

422
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:45,157
very charming,

423
00:29:45,283 --> 00:29:47,785
and he had six thousand

424
00:29:47,911 --> 00:29:51,038
girls across the continent
that were keeping him very busy.

425
00:29:51,706 --> 00:29:56,460
Ok... um... no. Um...

426
00:29:57,629 --> 00:29:58,462
Kiss!

427
00:30:00,507 --> 00:30:02,674
Wait, wait, you have something...

428
00:30:03,259 --> 00:30:04,468
I'll get that.

429
00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:06,094
- Better?
- Yeah.

430
00:30:13,478 --> 00:30:15,646
- Get it?
- I got it.

431
00:30:19,317 --> 00:30:23,070
One day, Neal and I were
thrown together in bed, at 4 am

432
00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:24,446
By circumstance...

433
00:30:24,572 --> 00:30:27,199
with no place else to go
and no place else to sleep.

434
00:30:28,368 --> 00:30:30,994
And I remember
being a little scared,

435
00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:33,956
and not quite sure
what to do, so...

436
00:30:34,499 --> 00:30:37,668
I sort of like turned over and

437
00:30:37,794 --> 00:30:40,754
stiffened my body
and got on the edge of the bed.

438
00:30:41,965 --> 00:30:43,924
And he saw that I was shy.

439
00:30:44,968 --> 00:30:46,718
At the time I was still...

440
00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:50,472
scared of feeling
with another person.

441
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:56,353
So he put his arm around me,

442
00:30:56,521 --> 00:30:59,106
and pulled me, and

443
00:30:59,399 --> 00:31:02,568
put my head on his breast, and

444
00:31:02,694 --> 00:31:04,987
gave me love, actually.

445
00:31:38,021 --> 00:31:40,022
And then one day,
I got a letter

446
00:31:40,148 --> 00:31:42,065
saying, finally,

447
00:31:42,191 --> 00:31:44,484
"We shouldn't consider
ourselves lovers...

448
00:31:44,611 --> 00:31:46,987
"I'm distracted with the wife,

449
00:31:48,489 --> 00:31:50,115
"as much as I love you."

450
00:31:51,451 --> 00:31:54,328
So my heart was broken.

451
00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:01,376
"Dear Allen,

452
00:32:02,045 --> 00:32:04,504
"What you say is honestly
what I've been doing

453
00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:07,174
"or striving for all my life.

454
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:09,134
"Therein lies our,

455
00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:12,054
"or my confused sense
of closeness.

456
00:32:12,347 --> 00:32:16,224
"Also I fear therein lies our
strength of tie to each other.

457
00:32:16,351 --> 00:32:17,434
"I say, 'I fear,'

458
00:32:17,602 --> 00:32:21,271
"for I really don't know how much
I can be satisfied to love you.

459
00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:22,564
"I mean 'bodily.'

460
00:32:22,690 --> 00:32:26,151
"You know, I sometimes dislike
pricks and men and before you

461
00:32:26,277 --> 00:32:29,613
"had consciously forced myself
to be homosexual.

462
00:32:30,573 --> 00:32:32,282
"You meant so much to me.

463
00:32:32,992 --> 00:32:35,869
"I now feel I was forcing
a desire for you bodily

464
00:32:35,995 --> 00:32:37,704
"as a compensation to you

465
00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:39,665
"for all you were giving me.

466
00:32:40,041 --> 00:32:41,667
"Allen, this is straight.

467
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,545
"What I truly want is to live
with you from September to June,

468
00:32:45,672 --> 00:32:48,924
"have an apartment,
a girl, go to college,

469
00:32:49,050 --> 00:32:50,717
"see all and do all,

470
00:32:50,843 --> 00:32:54,221
"and become truly straight,
so please, Allen,

471
00:32:54,347 --> 00:32:56,723
"give this
a good deal of thought."

472
00:33:07,151 --> 00:33:11,196
Who drove cross-country 72 hours
to find out if I had a vision

473
00:33:11,322 --> 00:33:12,614
or you had a vision

474
00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:15,826
or he had a vision
to find out Eternity,

475
00:33:17,328 --> 00:33:18,912
who journeyed to Denver,

476
00:33:19,038 --> 00:33:20,414
who died in Denver,

477
00:33:20,999 --> 00:33:24,167
who came back to Denver
and waited in vain,

478
00:33:24,335 --> 00:33:28,422
who watched over Denver
and brooded and loned in Denver

479
00:33:28,548 --> 00:33:31,550
and finally went away
to find out the Time,

480
00:33:31,926 --> 00:33:34,678
and now Denver
is lonesome for her heroes,

481
00:33:39,684 --> 00:33:42,185
who fell on their knees
in hopeless cathedrals

482
00:33:42,311 --> 00:33:46,023
praying for each other's
salvation and light and breasts,

483
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:49,860
until the soul illuminated
its hair for a second,

484
00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:52,904
who sweetened the snatches
of a million girls

485
00:33:53,031 --> 00:33:54,906
trembling in the sunset,

486
00:33:55,199 --> 00:33:57,200
and were red eyed in the morning
but prepared

487
00:33:57,326 --> 00:33:59,745
to sweeten
the snatch of the sunrise,

488
00:33:59,871 --> 00:34:03,540
flashing buttocks under barns
and naked in the lake,

489
00:34:04,959 --> 00:34:09,296
who went out whoring through Colorado
in myriad stolen night-cars,

490
00:34:09,422 --> 00:34:13,425
Neal Cassady,
secret hero of these poems,

491
00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:16,136
cocksman and Adonis of Denver,

492
00:34:16,262 --> 00:34:19,973
joy to the memory
of his innumerable lays of girls

493
00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:23,060
in empty lots
and diner backyards,

494
00:34:23,227 --> 00:34:27,898
Moviehouses' rickety rows,
on mountaintops in caves

495
00:34:28,191 --> 00:34:30,817
or with gaunt waitresses
in familiar roadside

496
00:34:31,069 --> 00:34:34,404
lonely petticoat upliftings.

497
00:34:34,947 --> 00:34:37,491
I think it's a howl of pain.

498
00:34:37,992 --> 00:34:40,077
Figuratively speaking,
his toes have been stepped on.

499
00:34:40,244 --> 00:34:43,246
He's poetically putting
his cry of pain and

500
00:34:43,414 --> 00:34:45,040
protest into this book, "Howl."

501
00:34:45,166 --> 00:34:48,376
And do you think this book
has definite literary value?

502
00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:49,503
I do.

503
00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:51,922
As a matter of fact,
I think in a way

504
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:55,092
he is employing
the jazz phraseology here

505
00:34:55,259 --> 00:34:57,344
and, may I say, I...

506
00:34:57,470 --> 00:35:02,599
I think he's also employing
the words he heard

507
00:35:02,767 --> 00:35:06,186
in his life on the road
and in his various experiences.

508
00:35:07,271 --> 00:35:08,396
Thank you.

509
00:35:08,523 --> 00:35:12,109
Now, do you understand
most of the words in this book?

510
00:35:12,401 --> 00:35:14,569
I think
I understand their significance

511
00:35:14,695 --> 00:35:16,571
and the general context of it.

512
00:35:16,948 --> 00:35:17,948
I see.

513
00:35:20,451 --> 00:35:23,787
Taking on page 13,

514
00:35:23,913 --> 00:35:24,955
the 14th line:

515
00:35:26,457 --> 00:35:28,959
"Who howled on their knees
in the subway

516
00:35:29,085 --> 00:35:34,131
"and were dragged off the roof
waving genitals and manuscripts."

517
00:35:34,465 --> 00:35:37,592
Now, do you understand what
that paragraph is trying to say,

518
00:35:37,718 --> 00:35:40,303
as a part of the "Howl"?

519
00:35:40,555 --> 00:35:41,972
Not explicitly.

520
00:35:43,391 --> 00:35:46,143
I would say
he was attempting to show the...

521
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:49,521
lack of inhibition
in the persons he's talking of,

522
00:35:50,606 --> 00:35:53,108
post-World War II generation...

523
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:56,069
those who returned,

524
00:35:56,195 --> 00:36:00,115
went into college or went into
work immediately after WW II

525
00:36:00,783 --> 00:36:05,412
perhaps were somewhat displaced
by the chaos of the war and

526
00:36:05,538 --> 00:36:07,747
didn't immediately settle down.

527
00:36:08,291 --> 00:36:11,418
Now, the next paragraph:

528
00:36:15,965 --> 00:36:19,176
"Who blew and were blown

529
00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:23,180
"by those human seraphim,
the sailors,

530
00:36:23,306 --> 00:36:27,017
"caresses of Atlantic
and Caribbean love."

531
00:36:27,185 --> 00:36:31,062
Now, you understand what
"blew" and "blown" mean?

532
00:36:31,647 --> 00:36:33,982
Well, I think they are words
that have several meanings.

533
00:36:34,525 --> 00:36:37,777
What meanings do you attribute
to the words in this paragraph?

534
00:36:37,904 --> 00:36:41,198
It can at one level mean...
that they were vagabonds,

535
00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:45,702
that they were being blown about
by natural, literal winds.

536
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:48,997
On the other hand, perhaps it
does have a sexual connotation.

537
00:36:50,124 --> 00:36:52,834
In reference
to oral copulation, right?

538
00:36:53,127 --> 00:36:54,377
Yes, possibly.

539
00:36:54,712 --> 00:36:56,421
Now then, do you find
that those words

540
00:36:56,547 --> 00:36:58,340
are necessary to the context

541
00:36:58,466 --> 00:37:00,217
to make it a work
of literary value?

542
00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:02,052
I thought we had settled this,
Your Honor.

543
00:37:02,178 --> 00:37:04,721
Yes, Mr. Mclntosh,
if you will recall,

544
00:37:04,847 --> 00:37:08,016
I said that I would not allow
the use of the word "necessary."

545
00:37:08,434 --> 00:37:10,852
But you may ask the question,
"Are they relevant?"

546
00:37:11,479 --> 00:37:15,065
Are they relevant to make
this a work of literary value?

547
00:37:15,233 --> 00:37:16,733
Yes, I would say so.

548
00:37:16,901 --> 00:37:19,569
Now then if you took
those words out of there,

549
00:37:19,904 --> 00:37:21,738
Would that spoil the portrayal?

550
00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:24,824
That's doing indirectly what Your Honor
won't permit him to do directly.

551
00:37:24,951 --> 00:37:27,035
This man is an expert.

552
00:37:27,286 --> 00:37:28,745
He has to speculate.

553
00:37:28,913 --> 00:37:33,250
No, Mr. Mclntosh, I'm afraid
I can't go along with you on that.

554
00:37:33,417 --> 00:37:37,128
Whether the author might
have used other or different words,

555
00:37:37,255 --> 00:37:39,923
you're getting into
the realm of speculation there.

556
00:37:40,049 --> 00:37:41,549
Objection sustained.

557
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,427
Going down a little further...

558
00:37:47,598 --> 00:37:51,226
"who sweetened the snatches
of a million girls

559
00:37:51,352 --> 00:37:55,313
"trembling in the sunset,
and were red eyed in the morning

560
00:37:55,439 --> 00:37:59,442
"but prepared to sweeten
the snatch of the sunrise,

561
00:37:59,568 --> 00:38:04,281
"flashing buttocks under barns
and naked in the lake."

562
00:38:08,411 --> 00:38:10,078
What's your question?

563
00:38:10,454 --> 00:38:13,123
Is that word "snatches"
in there...

564
00:38:13,249 --> 00:38:14,624
Is that...

565
00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:18,044
relevant to Mr. Ginsberg's
literary endeavor?

566
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:22,590
Yes. I think to use euphemisms
in describing this would...

567
00:38:23,801 --> 00:38:26,261
seem dishonest to Mr. Ginsberg.

568
00:38:26,971 --> 00:38:30,473
You also said, I believe,
literary value sometimes

569
00:38:30,641 --> 00:38:34,311
is a book which will survive
any test of time.

570
00:38:34,437 --> 00:38:37,188
Do you think Mr. Ginsberg's work
will survive the test of time?

571
00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:39,316
He has no way of knowing,

572
00:38:39,483 --> 00:38:42,319
no more than some people thought
"Leaves of Grass" would survive.

573
00:38:42,486 --> 00:38:45,322
I'm asking him for his opinion,
to give us an opinion on that book.

574
00:38:45,448 --> 00:38:47,365
He says that literary value

575
00:38:47,491 --> 00:38:49,451
depends on surviving
the test of time.

576
00:38:49,577 --> 00:38:50,827
I want to know if it will.

577
00:38:50,953 --> 00:38:52,329
If Luther Nichols
could answer that,

578
00:38:52,496 --> 00:38:55,415
then the Good Lord could use a
helper and he ought to be up there.

579
00:38:55,541 --> 00:38:56,499
How can he tell?

580
00:38:56,625 --> 00:38:59,044
I'm asking
for his opinion as an expert.

581
00:38:59,170 --> 00:39:00,003
I'll ask him.

582
00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:03,089
Can you answer the question?

583
00:39:05,176 --> 00:39:07,510
It calls for a prediction.

584
00:39:09,055 --> 00:39:11,765
I think that this trial
will draw attention to it.

585
00:39:11,891 --> 00:39:15,602
"Howl" will have a wider readership
than it might otherwise have had,

586
00:39:15,728 --> 00:39:19,647
and may go down in history as
a stepping-stone along the way

587
00:39:19,774 --> 00:39:21,858
to greater or lesser liberality

588
00:39:21,984 --> 00:39:23,693
in the permitting
of poems of its type.

589
00:39:38,376 --> 00:39:41,211
Poetry, generally, is a...

590
00:39:41,337 --> 00:39:44,047
rythmic articulation of feeling

591
00:39:45,049 --> 00:39:47,050
And the feeling is

592
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:49,928
an impulse that begins inside.

593
00:39:50,721 --> 00:39:54,557
Like a sexual impulse, you know.
Almost as definite as that. It's

594
00:39:55,434 --> 00:39:58,812
It's a feeling that begins, in
the pit of the stomach, right?

595
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:03,441
And rises up
through the breast, and...

596
00:40:03,567 --> 00:40:06,319
out the mouth and ears, right?

597
00:40:07,905 --> 00:40:08,905
And...

598
00:40:09,031 --> 00:40:12,742
it comes forth as a croon
or a groan or a sigh, right?

599
00:40:13,077 --> 00:40:15,412
So if you try
to put words to that

600
00:40:15,538 --> 00:40:18,081
by looking around you and

601
00:40:18,207 --> 00:40:21,209
trying to describe
what's making you sigh,

602
00:40:21,335 --> 00:40:23,044
just sigh in words,

603
00:40:23,754 --> 00:40:26,047
you simply articulate
what you're feeling.

604
00:40:26,590 --> 00:40:29,759
Who bit detectives in the neck
and shrieked with delight

605
00:40:29,927 --> 00:40:32,846
in police cars
for committing no crime,

606
00:40:32,972 --> 00:40:37,100
but their own wild cooking
pederasty and intoxication.

607
00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:41,604
Who howled
on their knees in the subway

608
00:40:41,730 --> 00:40:44,023
and were dragged off the roof

609
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:47,944
waving genitals and manuscripts.

610
00:40:53,075 --> 00:40:54,784
In the moment of composition,

611
00:40:55,077 --> 00:40:57,328
I don't necessarily
know what it means.

612
00:40:58,205 --> 00:40:59,998
It comes to mean
something later,

613
00:41:00,124 --> 00:41:01,749
after a year or two,
I come to realize

614
00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:03,042
it meant something clear,

615
00:41:03,169 --> 00:41:04,502
unconsciously.

616
00:41:05,296 --> 00:41:07,964
Which takes on meaning in time,
you know like...

617
00:41:08,257 --> 00:41:09,966
a photograph developing slowly.

618
00:41:12,052 --> 00:41:13,845
If it's at all spontaneous,

619
00:41:15,306 --> 00:41:18,099
I don't know whether it even
makes sense sometimes.

620
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,853
And other times, I do know
it makes complete sense,

621
00:41:23,230 --> 00:41:24,981
I start crying.

622
00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:28,067
'Cause I realize that I'm...

623
00:41:29,403 --> 00:41:31,488
I'm hitting on an area that's...

624
00:41:31,906 --> 00:41:33,323
absolutely true.

625
00:41:33,699 --> 00:41:37,285
In that sense, able to be
read by someone

626
00:41:37,411 --> 00:41:40,455
and wept to,
maybe, centuries later.

627
00:41:40,831 --> 00:41:43,166
In that sense, prophecy,

628
00:41:44,126 --> 00:41:46,419
because it touches a common key.

629
00:41:47,046 --> 00:41:47,921
I mean,

630
00:41:49,089 --> 00:41:51,341
what prophecy actually is,

631
00:41:51,842 --> 00:41:55,303
is not knowing whether...

632
00:41:55,888 --> 00:41:57,847
the bomb will fall in 1942.

633
00:41:58,307 --> 00:42:00,850
It's knowing
and feeling something

634
00:42:01,018 --> 00:42:03,019
which someone knows and feels

635
00:42:03,854 --> 00:42:05,647
in a hundred years. Hmm?

636
00:42:07,942 --> 00:42:10,443
And maybe articulating it
in a hint that

637
00:42:10,569 --> 00:42:13,238
they will pick up on
in a 100 years.

638
00:42:33,175 --> 00:42:35,260
Who crashed through
their minds in jail

639
00:42:35,386 --> 00:42:37,178
waiting for impossible criminals

640
00:42:37,304 --> 00:42:38,972
with golden heads

641
00:42:39,098 --> 00:42:42,225
and the charm
of reality in their hearts

642
00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:47,730
who sang sweet blues
to Alcatraz,

643
00:42:48,899 --> 00:42:52,569
who demanded sanity trials
accusing the radio of hypnotism

644
00:42:52,736 --> 00:42:54,571
and were left
with their insanity

645
00:42:54,738 --> 00:42:56,906
and their hands and a hung jury

646
00:42:59,618 --> 00:43:03,580
who threw potato salad
at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism

647
00:43:03,706 --> 00:43:05,540
and subsequently
presented themselves

648
00:43:05,666 --> 00:43:07,584
on the granite steps
of the madhouse

649
00:43:07,751 --> 00:43:10,962
with shaven heads
and harlequin speech of suicide,

650
00:43:11,088 --> 00:43:14,132
demanding
instantaneous lobotomy,

651
00:43:16,427 --> 00:43:18,052
and who were given instead

652
00:43:18,178 --> 00:43:20,430
the concrete void
of insulin Metrazol

653
00:43:20,556 --> 00:43:23,474
electricity hydrotherapy
psychotherapy

654
00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:27,020
occupational therapy
pingpong and amnesia,

655
00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:34,068
and who therefore
ran through the icy streets

656
00:43:34,194 --> 00:43:35,903
obsessed with a sudden flash

657
00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:37,947
of the alchemy
of the use of the ellipse

658
00:43:38,115 --> 00:43:41,909
the catalog the meter
and the vibrating plane,

659
00:43:46,081 --> 00:43:50,335
who dreamt and made
incarnate gaps in Time and Space

660
00:43:50,461 --> 00:43:52,629
through images juxtaposed,

661
00:43:52,796 --> 00:43:55,006
and trapped the archangel
of the soul

662
00:43:55,132 --> 00:43:57,008
between 2 visual images

663
00:43:57,134 --> 00:44:01,137
to recreate the syntax
and measure of poor human prose

664
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:04,641
and stand before you
speechless and intelligent

665
00:44:04,808 --> 00:44:06,976
and shaking with shame,

666
00:44:07,645 --> 00:44:09,854
rejected yet confessing
out the soul

667
00:44:09,980 --> 00:44:11,939
to conform to the rhythm of thought

668
00:44:12,066 --> 00:44:14,317
in his naked and endless head,

669
00:44:16,987 --> 00:44:20,490
the madman bum
and angel beat in Time,

670
00:44:20,658 --> 00:44:22,909
unknown, yet putting down here

671
00:44:23,035 --> 00:44:26,663
what might be left to say
in time come after death,

672
00:44:28,165 --> 00:44:32,710
and rose reincarnate
in the ghostly clothes of jazz

673
00:44:32,836 --> 00:44:35,380
in the goldhorn shadow
of the band

674
00:44:35,506 --> 00:44:39,967
and blew the suffering of
America's naked mind for love

675
00:44:40,094 --> 00:44:42,637
into an eli eli lamma lamma

676
00:44:42,763 --> 00:44:45,640
sabacthani saxophone cry

677
00:44:45,766 --> 00:44:49,352
That shivered the cities
down to the last radio

678
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,397
with the absolute heart
of the poem of life

679
00:44:52,523 --> 00:44:54,941
butchered out
of their own bodies

680
00:44:55,067 --> 00:44:58,444
good to eat a thousand years.

681
00:45:16,964 --> 00:45:17,964
After I left New York,

682
00:45:18,507 --> 00:45:20,675
I spent a year in San Francisco.

683
00:45:20,926 --> 00:45:24,137
I had an apartment on Nob Hill,

684
00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:27,515
the tie and suit,

685
00:45:27,641 --> 00:45:30,727
a job with several
secretaries which was...

686
00:45:30,894 --> 00:45:32,478
beginning to give me pleasure,

687
00:45:33,313 --> 00:45:35,356
the pleasure
of knowing I could do it

688
00:45:35,482 --> 00:45:38,484
and was no longer intimidated
by the social forms,

689
00:45:38,610 --> 00:45:42,071
to be able to make it
in the very dry, business world

690
00:45:44,783 --> 00:45:45,992
And that's when I met Peter.

691
00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:17,774
It was when I met Peter

692
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:19,942
that everything changed for me.

693
00:46:23,405 --> 00:46:26,616
It was as if the heavens
showered with gold.

694
00:46:27,951 --> 00:46:32,455
Finally somebody loved me
like I loved them,

695
00:46:33,457 --> 00:46:36,959
and for the first time,
I felt accepted in my life.

696
00:46:37,127 --> 00:46:38,503
Completely.

697
00:46:48,764 --> 00:46:50,181
In San Francisco,

698
00:46:50,307 --> 00:46:53,518
I had a year of psychotherapy
with Dr. Hicks.

699
00:46:54,937 --> 00:46:57,104
I was blocked,
I couldn't write...

700
00:46:58,315 --> 00:47:00,149
I was still trying
to act normal.

701
00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:02,276
I was afraid I was crazy.

702
00:47:02,402 --> 00:47:05,279
I was sure that I was
supposed to be heterosexual

703
00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:07,740
and that something
was wrong with me.

704
00:47:09,827 --> 00:47:11,911
And Dr. Hicks kept saying,

705
00:47:12,037 --> 00:47:14,330
"What do you want to do?

706
00:47:14,456 --> 00:47:17,458
"What is your heart's desire?"

707
00:47:17,584 --> 00:47:19,710
Finally I said...

708
00:47:19,837 --> 00:47:22,004
what I'd really like to do is to

709
00:47:22,172 --> 00:47:24,423
just quit all this

710
00:47:24,675 --> 00:47:25,466
and...

711
00:47:25,592 --> 00:47:27,468
get a small room with Peter

712
00:47:27,594 --> 00:47:30,179
and devote myself
to my writing and

713
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,517
contemplation and fucking
and smoking pot and...

714
00:47:34,643 --> 00:47:36,644
doing whatever I want.

715
00:47:37,688 --> 00:47:40,439
And he said,
"Why don't you do it, then?"

716
00:47:42,901 --> 00:47:46,320
I mean, what will happen
if I grow old...

717
00:47:46,446 --> 00:47:48,406
and I have pee-stains
in my underwear

718
00:47:48,532 --> 00:47:50,908
and I'm living
in some furnished room

719
00:47:51,034 --> 00:47:53,077
and nobody loves me and I'm...

720
00:47:53,203 --> 00:47:54,537
white-haired and...

721
00:47:54,663 --> 00:47:57,081
I have no money, bread crumbs
are falling on the floor?"

722
00:47:57,207 --> 00:47:58,624
And he said,

723
00:47:59,710 --> 00:48:01,294
"Don't worry about that,

724
00:48:01,420 --> 00:48:05,381
"you're very charming and lovable
and people will always love you."

725
00:48:05,549 --> 00:48:07,758
What a relief to hear that!

726
00:48:08,927 --> 00:48:11,429
I very soon realized that
it was all...

727
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:13,180
a fear-trap...

728
00:48:14,516 --> 00:48:15,808
Illusory!

729
00:48:18,645 --> 00:48:21,689
What sphinx
of cement and aluminum

730
00:48:21,815 --> 00:48:24,191
bashed open their skulls

731
00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:27,194
and ate up
their brains and imagination?

732
00:48:27,821 --> 00:48:32,325
Moloch! Solitude! Filth!

733
00:48:32,451 --> 00:48:36,662
Ugliness! Ashcans and
unobtainable dollars!

734
00:48:37,247 --> 00:48:39,957
Children screaming
under stairways!

735
00:48:40,083 --> 00:48:42,585
Boys sobbing in armies!

736
00:48:42,753 --> 00:48:45,379
Old men weeping in the parks!

737
00:48:45,505 --> 00:48:48,257
Moloch! Moloch!

738
00:48:48,425 --> 00:48:52,970
Nightmare of Moloch!
Moloch the loveless!

739
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:55,264
Mental Moloch!

740
00:48:55,432 --> 00:48:59,018
Moloch the heavy judger of men!

741
00:49:02,397 --> 00:49:05,733
Peter and I saw Moloch one day
when we took peyote

742
00:49:05,859 --> 00:49:08,778
and were wandering around
downtown streets.

743
00:49:09,446 --> 00:49:12,949
It's a god that you make
fire sacrifices to.

744
00:49:13,617 --> 00:49:14,492
But...

745
00:49:14,868 --> 00:49:18,621
in my mind, it was what
drove my mother to madness.

746
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,541
So, I had the line

747
00:49:22,876 --> 00:49:27,129
Moloch whose eyes are
a thousand blind windows.

748
00:49:27,506 --> 00:49:29,048
I had this word,

749
00:49:31,843 --> 00:49:33,219
And... I also had the feeling

750
00:49:33,345 --> 00:49:35,805
DA de de DA de de DA
de de DA DA. Hmm?

751
00:49:35,931 --> 00:49:40,851
So then all I had to do was look
up and see a lot of windows,

752
00:49:40,978 --> 00:49:43,020
and say,
"Oh, windows, of course,"

753
00:49:43,313 --> 00:49:45,731
But what kind of windows? Right?
And...

754
00:49:45,857 --> 00:49:47,733
Not only that...

755
00:49:47,859 --> 00:49:50,152
"Moloch whose eyes"...Right?

756
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,489
"Moloch whose eyes" which
is beautiful in itself but...

757
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:55,533
You know, what about it?

758
00:49:55,659 --> 00:49:56,784
"Moloch whose eyes" what?

759
00:49:56,910 --> 00:49:59,078
"Moloch whose eyes"...

760
00:49:59,204 --> 00:50:02,331
Then the next thing
I thought was probably...

761
00:50:02,499 --> 00:50:03,040
"Thousands."

762
00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:04,834
OK, but "thousands" what?

763
00:50:05,002 --> 00:50:06,627
"Thousands blind"...

764
00:50:06,753 --> 00:50:09,672
And then I had to
finish it somehow. So...

765
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,132
I had to say "windows."

766
00:50:16,805 --> 00:50:21,684
Moloch whose eyes are
a thousand blind windows!

767
00:50:23,854 --> 00:50:25,980
Moloch whose skyscrapers

768
00:50:26,106 --> 00:50:29,608
stand in the long streets
like endless Jehovahs!

769
00:50:31,278 --> 00:50:35,364
Moloch whose factories
dream and croak in the fog!

770
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,246
Moloch whose love
is endless oil and stone!

771
00:50:44,082 --> 00:50:47,460
Moloch whose soul
is electricity and banks!

772
00:50:48,211 --> 00:50:52,923
Moloch whose fate is a cloud
of sexless hydrogen!

773
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,470
Moloch in whom I sit lonely!

774
00:50:58,388 --> 00:51:01,807
Moloch in whom I dream Angels!

775
00:51:04,186 --> 00:51:05,936
Crazy in Moloch!

776
00:51:06,229 --> 00:51:08,355
Cocksucker in Moloch!

777
00:51:09,066 --> 00:51:12,109
Lacklove and manless in Moloch!

778
00:51:13,111 --> 00:51:16,238
Moloch who entered
my soul early!

779
00:51:16,990 --> 00:51:21,368
Moloch who frightened me
out of my natural ecstasy!

780
00:51:21,912 --> 00:51:23,996
Moloch whom I abandon!

781
00:51:25,123 --> 00:51:26,749
Wake up in Moloch!

782
00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,835
Light streaming out of the sky!

783
00:51:32,005 --> 00:51:33,923
Moloch! Moloch!

784
00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:35,591
Robot apartments!

785
00:51:35,717 --> 00:51:37,426
Invisible suburbs!

786
00:51:37,761 --> 00:51:39,637
Skeleton treasuries!

787
00:51:39,763 --> 00:51:41,388
Blind capitals!

788
00:51:41,515 --> 00:51:42,973
Demonic industries!

789
00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:44,892
Spectral nations!

790
00:51:45,018 --> 00:51:47,603
Invincible mad houses!

791
00:51:47,729 --> 00:51:49,313
Granite cocks!

792
00:51:49,606 --> 00:51:51,482
Monstrous bombs!

793
00:51:52,609 --> 00:51:56,403
They broke their backs
lifting Moloch to Heaven!

794
00:51:57,781 --> 00:51:59,865
Pavements, trees!

795
00:51:59,991 --> 00:52:01,992
Lifting the city to Heaven

796
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:05,121
which exists
and is everywhere about us!

797
00:52:06,123 --> 00:52:07,123
Dreams!

798
00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:08,582
Adorations!

799
00:52:08,708 --> 00:52:10,209
Illuminations!

800
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:11,794
Religions!

801
00:52:11,962 --> 00:52:14,755
The whole boatload
of sensitive bullshit!

802
00:52:15,257 --> 00:52:16,841
Breakthroughs!

803
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:18,801
Over the river!

804
00:52:19,094 --> 00:52:21,137
Flips and crucifixions!

805
00:52:21,304 --> 00:52:23,180
Gone down the flood!

806
00:52:23,431 --> 00:52:25,516
Highs! Epiphanies!

807
00:52:25,642 --> 00:52:26,725
Despairs!

808
00:52:26,852 --> 00:52:31,230
Ten years' animal screams
and suicides!

809
00:52:31,356 --> 00:52:34,900
Minds! New loves!
Mad generation!

810
00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:37,486
Down on the rocks of Time!

811
00:52:37,654 --> 00:52:40,656
Real holy laughter in the river!

812
00:52:40,782 --> 00:52:42,449
They saw it all!

813
00:52:42,826 --> 00:52:46,036
The wild eyes! The holy yells!

814
00:52:46,163 --> 00:52:47,788
They bade farewell!

815
00:52:47,914 --> 00:52:51,041
They jumped off the roof!
To solitude!

816
00:52:51,168 --> 00:52:52,209
Waving!

817
00:52:52,335 --> 00:52:54,253
Carrying flowers!

818
00:52:54,379 --> 00:52:56,255
Down to the river!

819
00:52:56,673 --> 00:52:58,048
Into the street!

820
00:52:59,634 --> 00:53:02,678
It is my opinion that if it has
any literary value,

821
00:53:02,804 --> 00:53:04,555
it's negligible.

822
00:53:04,681 --> 00:53:07,391
I endeavored to arrive
at my opinion

823
00:53:07,517 --> 00:53:08,684
on an objective basis.

824
00:53:08,852 --> 00:53:09,768
For example,

825
00:53:09,895 --> 00:53:14,064
a great literary work, or even
a fairly great literary work,

826
00:53:14,191 --> 00:53:17,651
would obviously be
exceedingly successful in form,

827
00:53:18,111 --> 00:53:20,696
but this poem is really
just a weak imitation

828
00:53:20,822 --> 00:53:24,158
of a form that was used 80
to 90 years ago by Walt Whitman.

829
00:53:24,284 --> 00:53:26,827
And do you recall
the name of that poem?

830
00:53:26,953 --> 00:53:30,039
"Leaves of Grass" was
the name of the poem.

831
00:53:30,165 --> 00:53:32,708
Literary value
could also reside in theme,

832
00:53:33,668 --> 00:53:36,295
and what little literary value
there is in "Howl,"

833
00:53:36,421 --> 00:53:37,963
it seems to me
does come in theme.

834
00:53:38,590 --> 00:53:42,092
The statement of the idea of
the poem was relatively clear,

835
00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:45,221
but it has little validity,
and, therefore, the theme

836
00:53:45,388 --> 00:53:46,847
has a negative value.

837
00:53:46,973 --> 00:53:48,098
No value at all.

838
00:53:48,225 --> 00:53:49,266
Thank you.

839
00:53:50,685 --> 00:53:52,645
Did I understand you to say that

840
00:53:52,771 --> 00:53:55,689
Ginsberg used
Walt Whitman's style?

841
00:53:55,815 --> 00:53:56,732
The form.

842
00:53:56,900 --> 00:53:59,193
The form of the book
"Leaves of Grass."

843
00:53:59,319 --> 00:54:01,654
And because of
Ginsberg's using this format,

844
00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:04,240
it is your opinion
that the poem "Howl"

845
00:54:04,366 --> 00:54:06,200
has no literary value or...

846
00:54:06,326 --> 00:54:07,952
merit, is that true?

847
00:54:08,245 --> 00:54:10,287
On the basis of form,
that's correct,

848
00:54:10,413 --> 00:54:12,831
because great literature
always creates

849
00:54:12,958 --> 00:54:15,084
its own form for
each significant occasion.

850
00:54:15,252 --> 00:54:17,461
By that, you do not mean that

851
00:54:17,587 --> 00:54:20,506
Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass"
doesn't quite qualify?

852
00:54:20,632 --> 00:54:22,675
That is great literature.

853
00:54:22,801 --> 00:54:24,969
The form was created
by Walt Whitman.

854
00:54:25,095 --> 00:54:26,845
And at the same time,
you say, because

855
00:54:26,972 --> 00:54:28,931
Ginsberg copied that format,

856
00:54:29,099 --> 00:54:32,268
"Howl" has no
value or merit, am I correct?

857
00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:33,435
That is correct.

858
00:54:33,603 --> 00:54:36,897
An imitation never does
have the value of the original.

859
00:54:37,023 --> 00:54:38,649
Who did Walt Whitman copy?

860
00:54:39,276 --> 00:54:41,026
To my knowledge, no one.

861
00:54:41,319 --> 00:54:42,319
But you don't know,

862
00:54:42,445 --> 00:54:44,947
isn't that your answer,
you don't know, sir?

863
00:54:46,449 --> 00:54:47,574
That's right.

864
00:54:47,909 --> 00:54:49,618
As I understand,
your next signpost

865
00:54:49,744 --> 00:54:51,287
is that the idea

866
00:54:51,413 --> 00:54:54,123
of "Howl" is clear,
but has little validity.

867
00:54:54,291 --> 00:54:56,041
Am I quoting you correctly?

868
00:54:56,501 --> 00:54:58,544
That's the general conclusion,
yes...

869
00:54:58,670 --> 00:55:00,754
the idea of "Howl"
is clear in theme.

870
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,131
- The idea is clear?
- Yes.

871
00:55:03,425 --> 00:55:05,968
What idea
does Ginsberg have in "Howl"?

872
00:55:06,094 --> 00:55:09,555
Well, he celebrates
the unfortunate life of...

873
00:55:11,808 --> 00:55:13,559
I can't remember the man's name,
Solomon...

874
00:55:13,685 --> 00:55:16,270
the unfortunate life
of the man, Solomon,

875
00:55:16,396 --> 00:55:18,856
who is a drifter
of Dadaist persuasion.

876
00:55:19,482 --> 00:55:20,566
A drift what?

877
00:55:20,984 --> 00:55:22,985
Drifter of Dadaist persuasion.

878
00:55:24,112 --> 00:55:25,279
He portrays that?

879
00:55:25,613 --> 00:55:26,905
That's correct.

880
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:29,825
And does that portrayal
have any validity?

881
00:55:29,993 --> 00:55:32,119
Not as literature, no.

882
00:55:32,412 --> 00:55:33,996
Carl Solomon!

883
00:55:34,581 --> 00:55:38,834
I'm with you in Rockland
where you're madder than I am.

884
00:55:39,836 --> 00:55:44,506
I'm with you in Rockland where
you must feel very strange.

885
00:55:45,508 --> 00:55:50,179
I'm with you in Rockland where you
imitate the shade of my mother.

886
00:55:52,807 --> 00:55:56,685
I'm with you in Rockland where
you pun on the bodies of your nurses,

887
00:55:56,853 --> 00:55:59,229
the harpies of the Bronx.

888
00:55:59,898 --> 00:56:01,815
I'm with you in Rockland

889
00:56:01,941 --> 00:56:04,401
where you bang on
the catatonic piano

890
00:56:04,527 --> 00:56:06,695
the soul is
innocent and immortal

891
00:56:06,863 --> 00:56:10,491
it should never die ungodly
in an armed madhouse.

892
00:56:11,242 --> 00:56:12,826
I'm with you in Rockland

893
00:56:12,952 --> 00:56:14,745
where fifty more shocks
will never return

894
00:56:14,871 --> 00:56:16,872
your soul to its body again

895
00:56:16,998 --> 00:56:20,376
from its pilgrimage
to a cross in the void.

896
00:56:21,503 --> 00:56:22,753
I'm with you in Rockland

897
00:56:22,879 --> 00:56:24,713
where you accuse
your doctors of insanity

898
00:56:24,839 --> 00:56:27,466
and plot
the Hebrew socialist revolution

899
00:56:27,592 --> 00:56:30,677
against
the fascist national Golgotha

900
00:56:31,721 --> 00:56:33,389
I'm with you in Rockland

901
00:56:33,556 --> 00:56:35,724
where you will split
the heavens of Long Island

902
00:56:35,892 --> 00:56:38,310
and resurrect
your living human Jesus

903
00:56:38,436 --> 00:56:40,479
from the superhuman tomb

904
00:56:41,231 --> 00:56:44,108
I'm with you in Rockland
where there are 25,000

905
00:56:44,234 --> 00:56:46,819
mad comrades
all together singing

906
00:56:46,945 --> 00:56:49,530
the final stanzas
of the Internationale.

907
00:56:50,740 --> 00:56:52,074
I'm with you in Rockland

908
00:56:52,242 --> 00:56:54,618
where we wake up
electrified out of the coma

909
00:56:54,744 --> 00:56:58,414
by our own souls' airplanes
roaring over the roof.

910
00:56:58,915 --> 00:57:01,667
They've come to drop
angelic bombs

911
00:57:01,793 --> 00:57:04,420
the hospital illuminates itself

912
00:57:05,338 --> 00:57:08,090
imaginary walls collapse

913
00:57:08,925 --> 00:57:12,094
O skinny legions run outside

914
00:57:13,012 --> 00:57:18,684
O starry-spangled shock of mercy
the eternal war is here

915
00:57:21,604 --> 00:57:25,774
O victory
forget your underwear we're free

916
00:57:27,569 --> 00:57:29,862
I'm with you in Rockland

917
00:57:29,988 --> 00:57:31,530
in my dreams

918
00:57:31,656 --> 00:57:34,408
you walk dripping
from a sea-journey

919
00:57:34,534 --> 00:57:36,910
on the highway across America

920
00:57:37,245 --> 00:57:40,414
in tears to the door
of my cottage

921
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:42,332
in the Western night.

922
00:57:45,128 --> 00:57:50,048
What is your impression
of the third portion of "Howl"?

923
00:57:50,175 --> 00:57:53,218
My understanding there would be
that the poet expresses

924
00:57:53,344 --> 00:57:55,471
the usual Dadaist line that

925
00:57:55,597 --> 00:57:58,474
everything is created
for man's despair,

926
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,477
that everything must be
forgotten and destroyed, and

927
00:58:01,603 --> 00:58:04,146
that Solomon's life apparently
has had this kind of rhythm.

928
00:58:04,314 --> 00:58:06,190
Therefore,
there is some validity

929
00:58:06,316 --> 00:58:08,734
of theme, in that area.

930
00:58:08,985 --> 00:58:11,069
So, there is
validity of theme there?

931
00:58:12,113 --> 00:58:15,741
I am afraid I got my tongue
tripped up there... this...

932
00:58:15,867 --> 00:58:18,368
I should have said "clarity"
instead of "validity."

933
00:58:18,495 --> 00:58:20,787
But you've been using
the term "validity"

934
00:58:20,914 --> 00:58:22,915
the entire time
you've been on the stand.

935
00:58:23,583 --> 00:58:25,792
By the way, Mr. Kirk,
have you read the Holy Bible?

936
00:58:26,669 --> 00:58:27,836
I have.

937
00:58:28,421 --> 00:58:30,047
Tell me, did you read Job?

938
00:58:30,173 --> 00:58:31,215
I have.

939
00:58:31,799 --> 00:58:34,927
Isn't Job crying the same cry
as Ginsberg's "Howl"?

940
00:58:35,053 --> 00:58:36,303
Not at all.

941
00:58:36,429 --> 00:58:40,182
Do you agree with me
that Job does condemn life?

942
00:58:41,017 --> 00:58:43,685
Job condemns
man's condition, yes,

943
00:58:43,811 --> 00:58:47,356
but he does not go on then,
as the Dadaist goes on, to...

944
00:58:47,524 --> 00:58:49,358
desire to wipe out
all human memory

945
00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:51,276
of everything the human race
has ever done

946
00:58:51,402 --> 00:58:54,238
so that there can be
a fresh start made

947
00:58:54,364 --> 00:58:55,822
as the Dadaist does.

948
00:58:55,949 --> 00:58:57,282
And you don't believe
in that philosophy?

949
00:58:57,408 --> 00:58:57,866
Not at all.

950
00:58:58,117 --> 00:59:01,370
No, it's been dead
since about 1922 or '23.

951
00:59:01,496 --> 00:59:02,996
But that doesn't
necessarily mean that

952
00:59:03,122 --> 00:59:04,915
someone who does
believe that is...

953
00:59:05,166 --> 00:59:05,999
wrong, does it?

954
00:59:06,125 --> 00:59:09,002
No, but that does not
create literature.

955
00:59:09,128 --> 00:59:10,420
Well, what...

956
00:59:11,172 --> 00:59:13,006
What creates
literature, Mr. Kirk?

957
00:59:13,258 --> 00:59:16,426
I'd have to return to my three
bases of objective criticism:

958
00:59:16,553 --> 00:59:18,637
Form, theme and opportunity.

959
00:59:18,763 --> 00:59:19,846
Well...

960
00:59:19,973 --> 00:59:22,474
Do you feel that
Ginsberg had the

961
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,518
opportunity in his travels

962
00:59:24,644 --> 00:59:26,436
to observe life
and to write about it?

963
00:59:26,563 --> 00:59:28,272
A small segment, yes.

964
00:59:28,398 --> 00:59:30,107
And this is the segment that
he's writing about,

965
00:59:30,233 --> 00:59:30,941
isn't that right?

966
00:59:31,067 --> 00:59:32,067
One thing...

967
00:59:32,193 --> 00:59:34,778
Answer that question,
please, "Yes" or "No."

968
00:59:35,697 --> 00:59:39,199
Uh... I'm... I'm confused.

969
00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:42,327
This is the segment that
he is writing about,

970
00:59:42,453 --> 00:59:43,120
isn't that true?

971
00:59:43,246 --> 00:59:45,205
I can't answer that
either "Yes" or "No."

972
00:59:45,331 --> 00:59:46,957
But you said in his travels,

973
00:59:47,083 --> 00:59:49,209
he wrote about a small segment
of the community.

974
00:59:49,711 --> 00:59:51,461
Here's where
the confusion comes in:

975
00:59:51,588 --> 00:59:54,590
I believe the travels
are Solomon's, not Ginsberg's.

976
00:59:54,757 --> 00:59:56,258
That's the basis
of my confusion.

977
00:59:56,551 --> 00:59:59,303
Yes, well, Ginsberg is writing
it about Solomon...

978
00:59:59,429 --> 01:00:01,096
It's his own observations.

979
01:00:01,222 --> 01:00:02,264
You have read that, haven't you?

980
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:04,600
I am unable to know
whether he has

981
01:00:04,767 --> 01:00:06,268
an acquaintance with Solomon.

982
01:00:06,394 --> 01:00:08,812
That is the thing that is
beyond my experience,

983
01:00:08,938 --> 01:00:10,272
beyond my knowledge.

984
01:00:10,398 --> 01:00:13,066
Do you evaluate a work
by whether the writer knew

985
01:00:13,192 --> 01:00:14,359
the person he was talking about?

986
01:00:14,652 --> 01:00:15,986
Absolutely.

987
01:00:16,112 --> 01:00:19,156
Are you certain that
Carl Solomon ever lived?

988
01:00:19,282 --> 01:00:19,948
No.

989
01:00:20,491 --> 01:00:21,783
Then you don't know, do you?

990
01:00:22,285 --> 01:00:22,784
Not at all.

991
01:00:24,287 --> 01:00:26,788
Have you ever read... Voltaire?

992
01:00:27,749 --> 01:00:28,665
I've read one work,

993
01:00:28,958 --> 01:00:29,708
"Candide."

994
01:00:29,834 --> 01:00:31,418
And what is your opinion
of "Candide"?

995
01:00:31,544 --> 01:00:33,962
As literature?
It's great literature.

996
01:00:34,213 --> 01:00:36,381
And whose style
did Voltaire copy?

997
01:00:36,507 --> 01:00:37,132
Oh!

998
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:37,883
Your Honor!

999
01:00:38,009 --> 01:00:38,508
Please!

1000
01:00:38,801 --> 01:00:40,594
Counsel is allowed
to make an objection.

1001
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,262
If he objects.

1002
01:00:42,805 --> 01:00:44,890
Well, I would like to...

1003
01:00:46,476 --> 01:00:48,894
I don't want to box with him.

1004
01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:50,729
He's disturbing me.

1005
01:00:51,648 --> 01:00:54,483
I get my mouth open
and out fly fists.

1006
01:01:01,449 --> 01:01:04,409
How long have you
reflected on "Howl"?

1007
01:01:05,578 --> 01:01:06,828
I believe two weeks.

1008
01:01:06,996 --> 01:01:08,038
Two weeks?

1009
01:01:08,164 --> 01:01:10,290
Two weeks would be
the limit of my opportunity.

1010
01:01:10,416 --> 01:01:12,709
However, I made my mind up
after 5 minutes.

1011
01:01:12,835 --> 01:01:15,170
And you reflected
a long, long time

1012
01:01:15,296 --> 01:01:17,172
on Voltaire's "Candide,"
is that right?

1013
01:01:17,340 --> 01:01:18,423
Exactly.

1014
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:20,634
Well, do you think that
if you had another

1015
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,552
ten years to reflect on "Howl,"

1016
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:24,388
you might change your opinion?

1017
01:01:24,514 --> 01:01:26,807
I am quite certain I would not.

1018
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:30,519
That is all.

1019
01:01:32,188 --> 01:01:34,523
...where you accuse
your doctors of insanity

1020
01:01:34,691 --> 01:01:37,067
and plot the Hebrew
socialist revolution

1021
01:01:37,193 --> 01:01:40,153
against the fascist
national Golgotha.

1022
01:01:40,279 --> 01:01:41,947
I'm with you in Rockland

1023
01:01:42,073 --> 01:01:44,658
where you will split
the heavens of Long Island

1024
01:01:44,784 --> 01:01:49,746
and resurrect your living human
Jesus from the superhuman tomb

1025
01:01:50,623 --> 01:01:52,416
I'm with you in Rockland

1026
01:01:52,542 --> 01:01:56,420
where there are
25,000 mad comrades all together

1027
01:01:56,546 --> 01:02:00,048
singing the final stanzas
of the Internationale

1028
01:02:00,925 --> 01:02:02,884
I'm with you in Rockland

1029
01:02:03,010 --> 01:02:05,053
where we hug and kiss

1030
01:02:05,179 --> 01:02:08,056
the United States
under our bedsheets.

1031
01:02:08,307 --> 01:02:09,891
The United States

1032
01:02:10,017 --> 01:02:13,437
that coughs all night
and won't let us sleep.

1033
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:15,689
I'm with you in Rockland

1034
01:02:16,357 --> 01:02:19,985
where we wake up electrified
out of the coma

1035
01:02:20,111 --> 01:02:23,739
by our own souls'
airplanes roaring over the roof

1036
01:02:23,906 --> 01:02:27,659
they've come to drop
angelic bombs

1037
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:30,746
the hospital illuminates itself

1038
01:02:30,913 --> 01:02:34,249
imaginary walls collapse

1039
01:02:34,542 --> 01:02:38,253
O skinny legions run outside

1040
01:02:38,504 --> 01:02:41,715
O starry-spangled shock of mercy

1041
01:02:41,841 --> 01:02:44,509
the eternal war is here!

1042
01:02:44,635 --> 01:02:46,261
O victory!

1043
01:02:46,596 --> 01:02:48,305
Forget your underwear!

1044
01:02:48,431 --> 01:02:49,931
We're free!

1045
01:02:50,933 --> 01:02:53,268
I'm with you in Rockland

1046
01:02:53,811 --> 01:02:55,604
in my dreams

1047
01:02:55,730 --> 01:02:58,273
you walk dripping
from a sea-journey

1048
01:02:58,441 --> 01:03:00,734
on the highway across America

1049
01:03:00,860 --> 01:03:04,863
in tears to the door
of my cottage

1050
01:03:04,989 --> 01:03:07,073
in the Western night.

1051
01:03:18,127 --> 01:03:20,253
"Howl" contains words,

1052
01:03:20,379 --> 01:03:22,881
taken just by themselves,
Your Honor,

1053
01:03:23,007 --> 01:03:25,300
that are definitely obscene.

1054
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:28,595
And we have had different
literary experts testify that

1055
01:03:28,721 --> 01:03:32,557
the books have literary merit,
and that the words

1056
01:03:32,683 --> 01:03:35,393
are necessary to that
so-called merit.

1057
01:03:37,313 --> 01:03:40,106
But it's funny in our law,

1058
01:03:40,233 --> 01:03:41,817
we are allowed to use

1059
01:03:41,943 --> 01:03:44,653
expert witnesses
to testify as to literary merit,

1060
01:03:44,779 --> 01:03:47,405
but we are not allowed
to bring in,

1061
01:03:47,532 --> 01:03:49,783
we will say, the average man

1062
01:03:49,909 --> 01:03:52,452
to testify that when
he reads the book,

1063
01:03:52,578 --> 01:03:54,162
he doesn't understand it.

1064
01:03:54,330 --> 01:03:56,915
He doesn't know
what it's all about.

1065
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:59,584
Perhaps it's over his head.

1066
01:04:00,127 --> 01:04:02,254
Take, for example...

1067
01:04:04,465 --> 01:04:08,301
Frankly, and I made the comment
in open court that I'd read it,

1068
01:04:09,136 --> 01:04:11,179
I don't understand it very well.

1069
01:04:11,347 --> 01:04:13,557
In fact, looking it all over,

1070
01:04:13,683 --> 01:04:16,434
I think it's a lot of
sensitive bullshit,

1071
01:04:16,561 --> 01:04:18,937
using the language
of Mr. Ginsberg.

1072
01:04:19,981 --> 01:04:20,647
So then,

1073
01:04:21,357 --> 01:04:24,860
If the sale of a book
is not being limited to just

1074
01:04:25,027 --> 01:04:26,361
modern book reviewers

1075
01:04:26,487 --> 01:04:28,405
and experts on modern poetry,

1076
01:04:28,531 --> 01:04:30,866
but falls into the hands
of the general public,

1077
01:04:31,033 --> 01:04:33,702
that is to say,
the average reader,

1078
01:04:34,704 --> 01:04:36,872
this court should take that
into consideration

1079
01:04:36,998 --> 01:04:40,166
in determining whether or not
"Howl" is obscene.

1080
01:04:40,877 --> 01:04:42,335
Thank you, Your Honor

1081
01:04:43,796 --> 01:04:44,588
Alright...

1082
01:04:44,714 --> 01:04:46,756
I will hear from the defense.

1083
01:04:52,054 --> 01:04:55,724
The United States Supreme Court
has said that obscenity

1084
01:04:56,684 --> 01:04:58,226
is construed to mean

1085
01:04:58,895 --> 01:05:01,730
"having a
substantial tendency to corrupt

1086
01:05:01,898 --> 01:05:04,482
"by arousing lustful desires."

1087
01:05:07,570 --> 01:05:11,406
Is the word relevant to what
the author is trying to say,

1088
01:05:11,949 --> 01:05:15,201
or did he just use it
to be dirty and filthy?

1089
01:05:15,828 --> 01:05:19,122
He sees what he terms as

1090
01:05:19,582 --> 01:05:22,709
"an Adonis of Denver,
joy to the memory

1091
01:05:22,835 --> 01:05:25,253
"of his innumerable conquests.

1092
01:05:25,421 --> 01:05:28,089
Who went out
whoring through Colorado

1093
01:05:28,215 --> 01:05:31,259
in myriad stolen night-cars

1094
01:05:31,385 --> 01:05:36,264
Neal Cassady,
secret hero of this poem,

1095
01:05:36,432 --> 01:05:39,059
cocksman and Adonis of Denver,

1096
01:05:39,477 --> 01:05:43,772
joy to the memory
of his innumerable lays of girls

1097
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:47,359
in empty lots
and diner backyards,

1098
01:05:47,485 --> 01:05:50,111
moviehouses' rickety rows,

1099
01:05:50,237 --> 01:05:55,116
on mountaintops in caves
or with gaunt waitresses

1100
01:05:55,242 --> 01:05:59,621
in familiar roadside
lonely petticoat upliftings

1101
01:05:59,789 --> 01:06:04,918
and especially secret
gas-station solipsisms of johns,

1102
01:06:05,044 --> 01:06:07,295
and hometown alleys too.

1103
01:06:07,672 --> 01:06:10,757
Now, I suppose
he could have said that,

1104
01:06:10,883 --> 01:06:12,968
the secret hero of these poems,

1105
01:06:13,135 --> 01:06:16,596
this "cocksman,"
this "Adonis of Denver,"

1106
01:06:16,722 --> 01:06:20,350
joy to memory
of his innumerable conquests

1107
01:06:20,476 --> 01:06:21,810
at the Waldorf Astoria...

1108
01:06:22,645 --> 01:06:25,230
or at dinner at Chasen's,
or after one or two drinks,

1109
01:06:25,356 --> 01:06:27,691
in going to bed
at the Stork Club.

1110
01:06:28,484 --> 01:06:30,610
I presume
he could have said that...

1111
01:06:30,736 --> 01:06:32,654
but that isn't
the kind of person

1112
01:06:32,780 --> 01:06:34,614
he is writing about.

1113
01:06:35,074 --> 01:06:37,659
It is not for us
to choose the words.

1114
01:06:38,244 --> 01:06:40,495
Mr. Ginsberg,
in telling his story,

1115
01:06:40,621 --> 01:06:42,372
is telling the story
as he sees it.

1116
01:06:42,498 --> 01:06:44,290
He is using his words.

1117
01:06:44,959 --> 01:06:46,960
There are books that
have the power to change

1118
01:06:47,086 --> 01:06:48,461
men's minds,

1119
01:06:48,796 --> 01:06:51,172
and call attention
to situations that...

1120
01:06:51,674 --> 01:06:52,716
are visible but

1121
01:06:53,050 --> 01:06:53,883
unseen.

1122
01:06:55,386 --> 01:06:58,555
Now whether "Howl" is
or is not "obscene" is of

1123
01:06:59,056 --> 01:07:02,392
little importance to our world,
faced as it is with the threat

1124
01:07:02,518 --> 01:07:04,269
of physical survival,

1125
01:07:05,146 --> 01:07:05,812
but...

1126
01:07:06,522 --> 01:07:08,857
the problem of what is
legally permissible

1127
01:07:08,983 --> 01:07:11,901
in the description of
sexual acts or feelings

1128
01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:14,988
in arts and literature
is of the greatest importance

1129
01:07:15,114 --> 01:07:17,032
to a free society.

1130
01:07:17,867 --> 01:07:19,659
What is "prurient"?

1131
01:07:20,119 --> 01:07:21,703
And to whom?

1132
01:07:22,204 --> 01:07:25,206
And the material so described
is dangerous to some

1133
01:07:25,332 --> 01:07:27,375
unspecified, susceptible reader.

1134
01:07:28,044 --> 01:07:29,252
It is interesting that

1135
01:07:29,378 --> 01:07:31,755
the person applying
such standards of censorship

1136
01:07:31,881 --> 01:07:34,257
rarely feels as if their own

1137
01:07:34,383 --> 01:07:36,885
physical or moral health
is in jeopardy.

1138
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,345
The desire to censor is...

1139
01:07:39,847 --> 01:07:42,474
not limited, however,
to crackpots and bigots.

1140
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:43,808
There is...

1141
01:07:44,226 --> 01:07:46,352
in most of us, a desire to

1142
01:07:46,854 --> 01:07:49,522
make the world conform
to our own views.

1143
01:07:49,648 --> 01:07:52,650
And it takes all of the force
of our own reason as well as

1144
01:07:52,777 --> 01:07:56,321
our legal institutions
to defy so human an urge.

1145
01:07:57,114 --> 01:07:59,074
The battle of censorship
will not be

1146
01:07:59,241 --> 01:08:01,659
finally settled by
Your Honor's decision,

1147
01:08:02,244 --> 01:08:05,914
but you will either add
to liberal, educated thinking,

1148
01:08:06,207 --> 01:08:08,750
or by your decision,
you will add fuel

1149
01:08:08,876 --> 01:08:10,794
to the fire of ignorance.

1150
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,547
Let there be light.

1151
01:08:16,008 --> 01:08:18,093
Let there be honesty.

1152
01:08:19,011 --> 01:08:20,720
Let there be no running from

1153
01:08:20,846 --> 01:08:24,390
non-existent
destroyers of morals.

1154
01:08:25,684 --> 01:08:28,686
Let there be
honest understanding.

1155
01:08:33,025 --> 01:08:35,443
Gentleman,
is the matter submitted?

1156
01:08:36,695 --> 01:08:38,363
It is submitted, Your Honor.

1157
01:08:40,032 --> 01:08:41,282
It is so submitted.

1158
01:09:12,898 --> 01:09:14,274
All rise.

1159
01:09:19,905 --> 01:09:21,114
Be seated.

1160
01:09:29,206 --> 01:09:32,834
There are a number of words
used in "Howl"

1161
01:09:33,002 --> 01:09:36,004
that are presently considered
coarse and vulgar

1162
01:09:36,172 --> 01:09:38,131
in some circles
of the community,

1163
01:09:38,257 --> 01:09:41,676
and in other circles,
such words are in everyday use.

1164
01:09:42,094 --> 01:09:44,137
The author of "Howl"

1165
01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:46,389
has used those words
because he believed that

1166
01:09:46,515 --> 01:09:49,893
his portrayal required them
as being in character.

1167
01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:53,855
The People state that such words
are not necessary

1168
01:09:53,981 --> 01:09:58,484
and that others would be
more palatable for good taste.

1169
01:09:59,069 --> 01:10:03,740
The answer is that life is not
encased in one formula

1170
01:10:03,866 --> 01:10:05,825
whereby everyone acts the same

1171
01:10:05,951 --> 01:10:08,578
and conforms
to a particular pattern.

1172
01:10:09,914 --> 01:10:11,831
No two persons think alike.

1173
01:10:11,957 --> 01:10:14,250
We were all made
from the same form

1174
01:10:14,585 --> 01:10:16,669
but in different patterns.

1175
01:10:17,004 --> 01:10:19,505
Would there be any freedoms
of press or speech

1176
01:10:19,632 --> 01:10:21,883
if one must reduce
his vocabulary

1177
01:10:22,051 --> 01:10:24,219
to vapid, innocuous euphemism?

1178
01:10:24,386 --> 01:10:28,097
An author should be real
in treating his subject

1179
01:10:28,224 --> 01:10:30,475
and be allowed to express
his thoughts

1180
01:10:30,601 --> 01:10:32,852
and ideas in his own words.

1181
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,189
In considering material
claimed to be obscene,

1182
01:10:36,315 --> 01:10:38,399
it is well
to remember the motto,

1183
01:10:38,525 --> 01:10:40,526
"Honi soit qui mal y pense'

1184
01:10:40,736 --> 01:10:43,905
"Evil to him who evil thinks."

1185
01:10:44,031 --> 01:10:46,658
The freedoms of speech and press

1186
01:10:46,784 --> 01:10:49,077
are inherent
in a nation of free people.

1187
01:10:49,245 --> 01:10:53,331
These freedoms must be protected
if we are to remain free,

1188
01:10:53,457 --> 01:10:56,209
both individually
and as a nation.

1189
01:10:57,378 --> 01:11:00,588
Therefore, I conclude that
the book "Howl and Other Poems"

1190
01:11:00,714 --> 01:11:03,925
does have some redeeming
social importance,

1191
01:11:04,301 --> 01:11:06,803
and I find the book
is not obscene.

1192
01:11:07,179 --> 01:11:09,430
The defendant
is found not guilty.

1193
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:37,625
The crucial moment
of breakthrough came when

1194
01:11:38,294 --> 01:11:40,503
I realized
how funny it would be,

1195
01:11:40,629 --> 01:11:42,463
in the middle of a long poem,

1196
01:11:42,631 --> 01:11:44,382
if I said:

1197
01:11:45,092 --> 01:11:47,093
"Who let themselves
be fucked in the ass

1198
01:11:47,219 --> 01:11:48,928
"and screamed with joy!"

1199
01:11:49,054 --> 01:11:51,180
Instead of
"and screamed with pain."

1200
01:11:51,307 --> 01:11:53,266
That's the contradiction
in that line.

1201
01:11:53,392 --> 01:11:56,144
An American audience would
expect it to be pain and,

1202
01:11:56,312 --> 01:11:57,979
instead,
it's "screamed with joy!"

1203
01:11:58,147 --> 01:12:00,315
Which is really true.

1204
01:12:00,482 --> 01:12:02,150
Absolutely, 100%.

1205
01:12:03,152 --> 01:12:05,945
And, again, I have a line, like

1206
01:12:07,781 --> 01:12:10,658
"Who blew and were blown
by those human seraphim,

1207
01:12:10,784 --> 01:12:12,452
the sailors, caresses of

1208
01:12:12,578 --> 01:12:14,454
"Atlantic and Caribbean love."

1209
01:12:16,832 --> 01:12:18,207
It was
an acknowledgement of the

1210
01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:21,294
basic reality of homosexual joy.

1211
01:12:22,588 --> 01:12:25,173
That was a breakthrough
in the sense of

1212
01:12:25,841 --> 01:12:27,467
public statements about

1213
01:12:27,593 --> 01:12:30,428
feelings, emotions,
attitudes, you know,

1214
01:12:30,971 --> 01:12:32,013
that...

1215
01:12:33,390 --> 01:12:37,352
I wouldn't have wanted
my father or my family to see,

1216
01:12:37,603 --> 01:12:40,980
and that I even
hesitated to make public.

1217
01:12:47,196 --> 01:12:49,197
The poem is misinterpreted as...

1218
01:12:49,531 --> 01:12:51,783
a promotion of homosexuality.

1219
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:55,244
Actually, it's...
more like a promotion of

1220
01:12:55,371 --> 01:12:58,164
frankness, about any subject.

1221
01:12:59,708 --> 01:13:03,169
If you're a foot fetishist,
you write about feet.

1222
01:13:03,295 --> 01:13:06,047
If you're a stock-market freak,

1223
01:13:06,173 --> 01:13:09,717
you can write about
the rising sales-curve erections

1224
01:13:09,885 --> 01:13:11,928
of the Standard Oil chart.

1225
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:16,724
When a few people are...

1226
01:13:16,892 --> 01:13:18,726
frank about
homosexuality in public,

1227
01:13:18,852 --> 01:13:20,186
it breaks the ice.

1228
01:13:20,979 --> 01:13:24,649
Then people are free
to be frank about anything and...

1229
01:13:26,443 --> 01:13:28,528
That's socially useful.

1230
01:13:37,413 --> 01:13:39,414
Homosexuality is a condition,

1231
01:13:40,332 --> 01:13:42,750
and because it alienated me

1232
01:13:42,876 --> 01:13:44,585
or set me apart
from the beginning,

1233
01:13:44,753 --> 01:13:48,881
it served as a catalyst
for self-examination,

1234
01:13:49,007 --> 01:13:50,258
or...

1235
01:13:51,093 --> 01:13:54,720
a detailed realization
of my environment and...

1236
01:13:55,472 --> 01:14:00,643
the reasons why
everyone else is different and

1237
01:14:02,771 --> 01:14:04,605
why I am different.

1238
01:14:22,916 --> 01:14:34,051
Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy! Holy!

1239
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,054
The world is holy!

1240
01:14:37,514 --> 01:14:39,891
The soul is holy!

1241
01:14:40,017 --> 01:14:41,809
The skin is holy!

1242
01:14:42,186 --> 01:14:43,978
The nose is holy!

1243
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:48,441
The tongue and cock
and hand and asshole, holy!

1244
01:14:48,567 --> 01:14:50,109
Everything is holy!

1245
01:14:50,319 --> 01:14:52,069
Everybody's holy!

1246
01:14:52,321 --> 01:14:53,988
Everywhere is holy!

1247
01:14:54,198 --> 01:14:56,657
Everyday is an eternity!

1248
01:14:56,783 --> 01:14:58,826
Everyman's an angel!

1249
01:14:59,077 --> 01:15:01,662
The bum's as holy
as the seraphim!

1250
01:15:01,788 --> 01:15:07,502
The madman is holy
as you my soul are holy!

1251
01:15:07,753 --> 01:15:09,253
The typewriter is holy!

1252
01:15:09,379 --> 01:15:11,005
The poem is holy!

1253
01:15:11,131 --> 01:15:12,590
The voice is holy!

1254
01:15:12,716 --> 01:15:14,467
The hearers are holy!

1255
01:15:14,593 --> 01:15:16,844
The ecstasy is holy!

1256
01:15:17,513 --> 01:15:18,596
Holy Peter!

1257
01:15:18,722 --> 01:15:19,764
Holy Allen!

1258
01:15:20,098 --> 01:15:21,015
Holy Solomon!

1259
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:22,350
Holy Lucien!

1260
01:15:22,768 --> 01:15:24,018
Holy Kerouac!

1261
01:15:24,353 --> 01:15:27,146
Holy Huncke
holy Burroughs holy Cassady!

1262
01:15:27,898 --> 01:15:31,484
Holy the unknown buggered
and suffering beggars!

1263
01:15:31,860 --> 01:15:34,946
Holy the hideous human angels!

1264
01:15:36,323 --> 01:15:39,116
Holy my mother
in the insane asylum!

1265
01:15:40,244 --> 01:15:43,955
Holy the cocks
of the grandfathers of Kansas!

1266
01:15:45,123 --> 01:15:47,375
Holy the groaning saxophone!

1267
01:15:47,709 --> 01:15:50,044
Holy the bop apocalypse!

1268
01:15:50,587 --> 01:15:54,048
Holy the jazzbands
marijuana hipsters

1269
01:15:54,216 --> 01:15:56,884
peace and junk and drums!

1270
01:15:57,594 --> 01:15:59,262
Holy time in eternity!

1271
01:15:59,763 --> 01:16:01,556
Holy eternity in time!

1272
01:16:02,266 --> 01:16:03,975
Holy the clocks in space!

1273
01:16:04,601 --> 01:16:06,394
Holy the fourth dimension!

1274
01:16:06,812 --> 01:16:09,230
Holy the Fifth Internationale!

1275
01:16:09,690 --> 01:16:11,857
Holy the Angel in Moloch!

1276
01:16:12,693 --> 01:16:14,026
Holy the sea!

1277
01:16:14,361 --> 01:16:15,653
Holy the desert!

1278
01:16:16,363 --> 01:16:18,990
Holy the railroad,
holy the locomotive

1279
01:16:19,366 --> 01:16:20,533
Holy the visions!

1280
01:16:20,659 --> 01:16:22,702
Holy the hallucinations!

1281
01:16:23,245 --> 01:16:24,662
Holy the miracles!

1282
01:16:25,289 --> 01:16:26,998
Holy the eyeball!

1283
01:16:27,124 --> 01:16:28,124
Holy the abyss!

1284
01:16:30,252 --> 01:16:31,419
Holy forgiveness!

1285
01:16:33,171 --> 01:16:34,255
Mercy!

1286
01:16:34,923 --> 01:16:36,132
Charity!

1287
01:16:36,717 --> 01:16:37,800
Faith!

1288
01:16:38,176 --> 01:16:38,926
Holy!

1289
01:16:39,261 --> 01:16:40,303
Ours!

1290
01:16:40,762 --> 01:16:41,846
Bodies!

1291
01:16:42,514 --> 01:16:43,472
Suffering!

1292
01:16:44,266 --> 01:16:45,349
Magnanimity!

1293
01:16:46,852 --> 01:16:52,440
Holy the supernatural extra
brilliant intelligent kindness

1294
01:16:52,608 --> 01:16:55,151
of the soul.

1295
01:17:07,497 --> 01:17:12,043
Hey Father Death,
I'm flying home

1296
01:17:12,544 --> 01:17:16,631
Hey, poor man,
you're all alone

1297
01:17:17,007 --> 01:17:22,553
Hey, old daddy,
I know where I'm going.

1298
01:17:22,804 --> 01:17:27,099
Father Death,
don't cry any more.

1299
01:17:27,267 --> 01:17:31,604
Mama's there,
underneath the floor.

1300
01:17:31,730 --> 01:17:35,983
Brother Death,
please mind the store.

1301
01:17:36,109 --> 01:17:40,655
Old Auntie Death,
I hear your groans.

1302
01:17:40,822 --> 01:17:45,326
Old Uncle Death,
I see your bones.

1303
01:17:45,494 --> 01:17:50,998
Oh Sister Death,
how sweet your moan

1304
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:56,629
Oh Children Death,
go breathe your breaths.

1305
01:17:57,297 --> 01:18:00,716
Sobbing breasts'll ease
your deaths.

1306
01:18:00,842 --> 01:18:06,055
Pain is gone,
tears take the rest.

1307
01:18:06,515 --> 01:18:10,851
Genius Death,
your art is done

1308
01:18:11,019 --> 01:18:14,188
Lover Death,
your body's gone

1309
01:18:14,356 --> 01:18:18,693
Father Death,
I'm coming home

1310
01:18:18,860 --> 01:18:23,280
Guru Death,
your words are true

1311
01:18:23,532 --> 01:18:27,827
Teacher Death,
I do thank you

1312
01:18:27,953 --> 01:18:32,331
For inspiring me
to sing this Blues

1313
01:18:32,457 --> 01:18:35,334
Buddha Death,
I wake with you

1314
01:18:35,460 --> 01:18:38,713
Dharma Death,
your mind is new

1315
01:18:39,297 --> 01:18:42,717
Sangha Death,
we'll work it through

1316
01:18:43,009 --> 01:18:45,636
Suffering is what was born

1317
01:18:46,096 --> 01:18:49,014
Ignorance made me forlorn

1318
01:18:49,641 --> 01:18:54,061
Tearful truths I cannot scorn

1319
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:58,649
Father Breath,
once more farewell

1320
01:18:58,900 --> 01:19:02,570
Birth you gave
was no thing ill

1321
01:19:03,321 --> 01:19:05,740
My heart is still,

1322
01:19:05,907 --> 01:19:09,243
as time will tell.

1323
01:24:22,057 --> 01:24:24,058
Subtitling: LVT-New York