1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,000 [ Projector whirring ] 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,000 ♪♪ 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Mandarano: The way to influence society, 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,000 to influence culture, is to tell a story. 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,000 It's always been like that. 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000 It's part of the human condition. 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000 The most popular, iconic films of all time, 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,000 they generally have the best villains. 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Like, look at "Star Wars." 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000 People might remember it or not, 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,000 but they remember Darth Vader. 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000 [ Hissing ] 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,000 The best thing about villainry is the complexity behind it. 14 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,000 You know, you could have a villain that's compelling 15 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,000 where they're nice to everyone, 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,000 but inside or what they're doing outside of that 17 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,000 is a different story. 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,000 ♪♪ 19 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,000 The world has sociopaths, 20 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,000 people who are incapable of feeling empathy, 21 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,000 people who don't think about others as their peers 22 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,000 but like as prey. 23 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,000 ♪♪ 24 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,000 Is the Con Queen of Hollywood a sociopath? 25 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,000 That's sort of the question that 26 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,000 I've been asking myself for a long time. 27 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,000 Con Queen: [ On phone ] I want to say sincerely, 28 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000 I think you're smart, you have a bright future, 29 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,000 but you've not been in the industry 30 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,000 long enough to know how it's done. 31 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,000 So you would need a guiding force. 32 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,000 Someone who's done business before. 33 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:31,000 ♪♪ 34 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:40,000 ♪♪ 35 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,000 [ Keyboard clacking ] 36 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,000 Mandarano: I guess I've always been a storyteller at heart. 37 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,000 Roleplaying games, they're like my jam. 38 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,000 In a game like that, 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,000 you have the game master, the storyteller, 40 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,000 the person who controls everything about the world. 41 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 That always appealed to me, 42 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000 to be able to tell a story like that. 43 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,000 I'd like to say I'm a screenwriter, 44 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000 which I'm not really because I'm unproduced. 45 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,000 About five years ago, 46 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 I had been dabbling in the screenwriting world, 47 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000 and I found an article 48 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,000 that talked about, you know what would be great? 49 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 A movie about Chinese and American submarines 50 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 have a little spat together. 51 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,000 And I latched onto that idea. 52 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,000 So I recruited my buddy Dave. 53 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,000 And I said, "You know what, 54 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,000 it would be fun for us to write this together." 55 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 I was pitching it around to the standard routes, 56 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,000 and I came across the ChinaFilmGroup.com. 57 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,000 So I sent the pitch, and a week later, 58 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,000 I got my first response from Huilang Jing, 59 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,000 the Vice President of Development. 60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,000 She expressed interest in the project, 61 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,000 said that they may be interested in having a face-to-face, 62 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,000 and it would either be in Beijing, 63 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,000 or, alternatively, it was posed Jakarta, Indonesia, 64 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:16,000 where they had producers on set doing film work. 65 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,000 Oh, it was cloud nine. 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,000 I went in my parents' bedroom, and I woke them up. 67 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,000 "They want me to go to China or Indonesia! 68 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,000 This is crazy!" 69 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,000 "Shut up, go to sleep." 70 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000 I contacted Dave the next day, 71 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 and he was absolutely shocked. 72 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,000 The more rejections you have, 73 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,000 the more you're able to appreciate any, you know, 74 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,000 real interest in anything that you've created. 75 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,000 ♪♪ 76 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Martin: Lucky breaks come to you all the time. 77 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,000 It's how you navigate them when they're in your lap. 78 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,000 And sometimes, they'll pass you by 79 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,000 because you weren't ready. [ Camera shutter clicking ] 80 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,000 When it came to photography, I was a bit naive. 81 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,000 I didn't realize how difficult it would be 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,000 to get started, to network. 83 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,000 [ Camera shutter clicking ] I just thought 84 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,000 I could take nice photos 85 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,000 and that would be it. 86 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,000 So it was a big learning curve. 87 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,000 In the fall of 2018, 88 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,000 things were really starting to click. 89 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,000 I actually ended up doing a little social takeover 90 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,000 for Condé Nast and their Instagram feed, 91 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000 which was, at the time, you know, a pretty big thing. 92 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Around that time, I got this e-mail in my inbox 93 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,000 from someone I've never talked to before. 94 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,000 His name's Aaron Gersh. 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,000 He's interested in licensing some photos, 96 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,000 or something like this, and I was like, 97 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,000 "Maybe there's something there," but I had other things going on, 98 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,000 so it went on the backburner. 99 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,000 And about a week later, 100 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,000 I'm out playing basketball by myself, 101 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,000 and I get this phone call. [ Cellphone vibrates ] 102 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,000 And it's Aaron Gersh. 103 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 He says, "Is it okay for me to patch you through 104 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,000 to a call from Wendi Murdoch?" 105 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,000 And I'm thinking, "Who is Wendi Murdoch?" 106 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Rupert: She came out to work 107 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,000 for Star Television in Hong Kong, 108 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,000 where I met her. 109 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,000 And, you know, who wouldn't fall in love 110 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,000 with a beautiful woman like that? 111 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,000 ♪♪ 112 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,000 And I get patched through to Wendi Murdoch. 113 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,000 And this lady's on the phone with a very heavy accent 114 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 and is just basically flattering me. 115 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,000 "I love your work, 116 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,000 I love what you did with Condé Nast, 117 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,000 and I have this project that I'd like you to photograph." 118 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,000 And then at the end of the phone call, 119 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,000 she's like, "Okay, well, 120 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,000 if you are interested in doing this, 121 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,000 I would love to fly you out to either Indonesia or Malaysia 122 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,000 to shoot the assignment next week." 123 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,000 I hang up the phone, and I'm like, "What just happened? 124 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,000 I'm going to Asia next week? Who's Wendi Murdoch?" 125 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 And I get on my phone, I start Googling things. 126 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000 I'm like, "Oh, that's who Wendi Murdoch is. 127 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Okay, this could be big." 128 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:08,000 ♪♪ 129 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Rider: Any art is tough, 130 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,000 you know, and I love a challenge. 131 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,000 You know, when people are like, 132 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,000 "There's such a small percentage of people 133 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,000 who actually make it as actors, 134 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,000 you've picked one of the toughest industries to go into," 135 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 I'm like, "Well, sounds perfect for me." 136 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,000 [ Grunts ] 137 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,000 I'm an endurance athlete plus a humanitarian, 138 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,000 so I kind of travel around the world, 139 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,000 and I do extreme events 140 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 to be able to raise a message against child abuse. 141 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,000 January 3, 2015, 142 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,000 I paddled 500 miles in the open ocean 143 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 for 17 days by myself. 144 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 I filmed with GoPro along the way, 145 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,000 and the final film that we made is called "Heart of the Sea." 146 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 I was on the cover of Men's Health magazine, 147 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 and that was about being a role model 148 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,000 rather than a model, so that was cool. 149 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,000 I had a wellness retreat in Australia, 150 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000 and, you know, it was going pretty well, 151 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,000 but there was a bit of a lull, 152 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,000 and I was pretty complacent with what I was doing. 153 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,000 And this e-mail comes through from Wendi Murdoch, 154 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,000 saying that they'd found my photo 155 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,000 from a Men's Health magazine 156 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,000 and they'd like to talk to me about doing a TV series. 157 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000 [ Cellphone rings ] About three days later, 158 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,000 6:00 a.m., I'm laying in bed, wake up to a phone call. 159 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,000 And it's Aaron Gersh, the assistant of Wendi Murdoch, 160 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000 and would I be all right to talk to her? 161 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,000 So then this lady gets on the phone, 162 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,000 and she was just saying they've checked out everything of me, 163 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,000 they'd watched "Heart of the Sea" film, 164 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,000 and they'd like to potentially use me for a TV series 165 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,000 that they were doing about pushing the boundaries. 166 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,000 And I said, "Well, that seems pretty fitting for me, 167 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,000 seeing as that's how I live my life anyway." 168 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,000 They send me through this pile of script, 169 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,000 and it was called "Boundaries." 170 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,000 What they'd like to do 171 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,000 is tie it in with Emerson Collective, 172 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,000 which is a charity that Laurene Jobs owns. 173 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,000 To leave a mark in a way 174 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,000 that you think is important and lasting, 175 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000 that's a life well-lived. 176 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Rider: It was sort of fitting, 177 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,000 it goes along with everything 178 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,000 that I pretty much project in life, 179 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 so I was like, "Yeah, sweet. Let's talk more." 180 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:25,000 ♪♪ 181 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,000 Brinkman Evans: When you're a young photographer 182 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,000 or, you know, really, any artist, 183 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000 you kind of just have to take a complete leap of faith. 184 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:38,000 I wanted to not be afraid and to go out and tell stories. 185 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,000 I do a lot of landscape and travel work, 186 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,000 and then film still work, 187 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 where I take photos of whatever it is 188 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,000 that the actors are doing in their world. 189 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,000 I'd been living in Newfoundland for just less than a year, 190 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,000 and then I got this fated e-mail from Wendi Murdoch. 191 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,000 She got my name from this list at Condé Nast Traveler, 192 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000 and she is putting together an exhibition 193 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 for the Beijing Winter Olympics, 194 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,000 and she would like to have a chat with me to see 195 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,000 if I would be interested in being, you know, involved. 196 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Ironically enough, 197 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,000 my dad worked with Rupert Murdoch 198 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,000 for some time, 199 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,000 and he's known Rupert 50-odd years. 200 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,000 I didn't tell Wendi that David Evans was my father 201 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,000 because I wanted to make sure 202 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,000 that I retained this job on my own. 203 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000 [ Cellphone vibrates ] She told me 204 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,000 that she was sending a bunch of photographers 205 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,000 and she wanted us to go to Indonesia for a couple of days 206 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,000 and focus on things that were Chinese-influenced or heritage. 207 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,000 She had a brief, 208 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,000 and it was Wendi's interpretation 209 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,000 of what the color red meant to her. 210 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000 And it's a test shoot. 211 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000 And she said, "Is there any way 212 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,000 that you can fly to Jakarta in a couple of days?" 213 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,000 And I said yes. 214 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,000 ♪♪ 215 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Mandarano: Dave and I didn't have the money 216 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,000 for the trip ourselves, 217 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000 so my parents, believing in me, 218 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,000 and my father being the saint that he was, 219 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,000 agreed to fund our expedition. 220 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,000 But it was explained to us 221 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,000 that we would have to book the tickets ourselves. 222 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,000 We would have to have receipts for everything 223 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000 because there would be a reimbursement document. 224 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:40,000 It was between $1,500 and $2,000 to fly across the ocean, 225 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 but it was because it was an investment 226 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,000 into what I was gonna receive. 227 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,000 I was gonna make 15 grand shooting it, 228 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,000 and then the potential to be sent on another assignment. 229 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Within a few weeks, I could be making 230 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,000 half a year, a year's worth of money. 231 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Brinkman Evans: It's a staggering amount of money 232 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,000 for two days of work. 233 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000 And I freelance, right, 234 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 so some months, maybe I'll make that, 235 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,000 but then you can rest assured, for the next two months, 236 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,000 I'm probably making like 50 bucks. 237 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Rider: My film "Heart of the Sea," 238 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000 it got picked up globally, but not in the U.S. 239 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000 So once I come on board, 240 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,000 they're gonna put "Heart of the Sea" 241 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,000 across the U.S., 242 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,000 plus they weren't asking me for any money. 243 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,000 They were just telling me the money they're gonna give me. 244 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000 And I'm like, "Alright, ch-ching. We're on." 245 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000 ♪♪ 246 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000 Mandarano: Beyond having to purchase the tickets, 247 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,000 we had to bring with us U.S. currency 248 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,000 because we would be using a driving service 249 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,000 that was expressly used by the China Film Group Corporation 250 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 for security purposes. 251 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Martin: Because I didn't have a work visa, 252 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,000 I was gonna need all these permits to be photographing. 253 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000 He said, "Every day, they're gonna come 254 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,000 and ask for money for a permit, and you can cover those things. 255 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Please keep all of the receipts so that we can reimburse you." 256 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Rider: We walk through the car park, 257 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,000 and we get to this car that's sort of a bit of a banger. 258 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,000 And I sized up the guy, and I was like, 259 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000 "Well, he's a lot smaller than me, 260 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000 so, alright, I'm getting in the car, 261 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,000 'cause what's the worst that's gonna happen 262 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,000 right here between you and I?" 263 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,000 Martin: He asked me, "Do you need to exchange any currency?" 264 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,000 I said, "Yeah, I definitely do." 265 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 And we stopped at this money exchange. 266 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,000 It was super sketchy. 267 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,000 I'm walking around with a bunch of cash 268 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000 and a bunch of photo equipment with this guy I don't know. 269 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,000 And he's just pointing, "Go in there." 270 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,000 So I walk past two guys who are holding big guns. 271 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,000 [ Guns cock ] 272 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 There's this young kid, probably like 14 or 15, 273 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000 behind the desk. 274 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,000 He takes the money, brings out Indonesian currency, 275 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,000 which I've never seen before, fat stack, 276 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000 and just starts counting this stuff so quickly. 277 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Brinkman Evans: I got my money all converted. 278 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Aaron was in constant communication with me, 279 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000 like annoyingly so. 280 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,000 You know, he really wanted to make sure I was okay. 281 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Gersh: [ On phone ] Let me talk to the vendor's manager 282 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,000 because they're the ones who would take care of that. 283 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,000 Don't worry about that. 284 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,000 And I'll give you buzz in the next hour and a half. 285 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 He said, "I am your Jewish grandmother." 286 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,000 He said, "I have these tendencies 287 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000 of needing to take care of everyone, 288 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,000 and if you have a problem with that, 289 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,000 I don't know what to tell you." 290 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000 ♪♪ 291 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,000 Mandarano: And then we were taken to the hotel. 292 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,000 The hotel was nice. 293 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,000 For being in a foreign country on the other side of the world, 294 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,000 I guess you could say it was a little ritzy. 295 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000 Beautiful room, great view, free breakfast, free lunch. 296 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,000 Didn't even have to put a card down for incidentals. 297 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,000 Just, welcome. 298 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Mandarano: We got into our car. We were taken to the office. 299 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,000 We were expecting a panel of three people, 300 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,000 and down comes one of the people who was on that list -- 301 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Anand Sippy, another vice president at the company. 302 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:16,000 He came off as someone who just stepped off the bus from L.A., 303 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,000 and he had a big smile on his face. 304 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Because we had the PowerPoint presentation, 305 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000 he invited us into the media room. 306 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,000 He grabs a controller and points it at the machine, 307 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,000 and the TV turns on. 308 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,000 And the TV shows 309 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:38,000 a livestream video recording of us in the room. 310 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 Dave and I look to each other like, 311 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000 "Oh. We're being recorded." 312 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Like, we weren't told we were being recorded, 313 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,000 and there's no visible camera. 314 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,000 Interesting. 315 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,000 And then Anand goes to the whiteboard, 316 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000 and he starts explaining to us that, unfortunately, 317 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 China doesn't allow films that portray the military. 318 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000 We had written a politically oriented action movie 319 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,000 that had direct conflict 320 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000 between the Chinese and American military. 321 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000 So the premise of our film itself 322 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000 couldn't get past the Chinese censorship board. 323 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,000 It was absurd. 324 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,000 I would start every morning by handing over permit money, 325 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,000 anywhere from $900 a day to $1,600 a day. 326 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,000 Martin: I give him this big wad of cash 327 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,000 for this permit that looks like 328 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000 it was printed off on, like, an Epson in your mom's basement. 329 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 He takes me in the car. We drive to this gas station. 330 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,000 Then this guy on a scooter comes by, 331 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000 and he hands him the envelope. 332 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 The guy on the scooter takes off. 333 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 I'm like, "What is happening?" 334 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,000 I just paid for a permit, 335 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,000 and we're going to Jakarta -- or to Bandung? 336 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,000 Bandung? Bandung, yeah. 337 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Yeah, yeah. Bandung. 338 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Cool. 339 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000 The driver hand me a receipt slip 340 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000 and said, "Yeah, you've got to give me $3,000." 341 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,000 And I'm like, "There's no way. There's been no talk of this. 342 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000 I'm not handing you $3,000 at all." 343 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000 So I'm out of the van. 344 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000 [ Van door slides ] 345 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,000 And then Aaron calls me. 346 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000 I was like, "Where's this $3,000 come from?" 347 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000 And he's like, "Yeah, it's for the ground crew there. 348 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,000 We're reimbursing it into your account." 349 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,000 I was like, "What actually are we doing today?" 350 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000 He's like, "You're going with this driver, 351 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,000 and you're going to this location." 352 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,000 He sent the location through. I had a look on Google Maps. 353 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,000 It was 5 1/2 hours' drive away, 354 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,000 and there was absolutely nothing around. 355 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000 I said, "Mate, there's no way I'm going 5 1/2 hours 356 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000 out in the middle of nowhere." 357 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000 I said, "Anything could happen to me out there. 358 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,000 It's just me and this dude. 359 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,000 Oh, I know what I'll do -- 360 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Since you paid for the hotel and everything as well, 361 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,000 I'll give you $1,000." 362 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,000 So the driver took off. 363 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000 I went inside. 364 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,000 Buffet meals. I'm having lobster tails. 365 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000 I'm, like, just ripping into everything 366 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,000 because I'm thinking, 367 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,000 "I'm getting my $1,000 worth of food." 368 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000 And I can eat! 369 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,000 [ Dishes clinking ] 370 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000 Mandarano: When Anand had explained 371 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000 what made our project unable to get past the censorship board, 372 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,000 I was taken aback. 373 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:22,000 But my mind worked at a thousand miles an hour, and I pivoted. 374 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 I interrupted him as he was writing something on the board. 375 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000 I said, "Look, if the problem 376 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000 with getting past the Chinese censorship board 377 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000 is real-world politics, 378 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,000 then what if the story didn't take place in the real world?" 379 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,000 And I said, "Look, I know sci-fi and I know fantasy. 380 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,000 It's my wheelhouse." 381 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000 I said, "We could take this project 382 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,000 and very easily convert the entire thing 383 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,000 so the key elements that are holding us back are removed." 384 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:04,000 The look that he gave me in that moment was downright diabolical. 385 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000 He says, "Go on." 386 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,000 So I pulled the story out of thin air. 387 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,000 And he loved it. 388 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,000 We get a call back from Huilang a couple hours later. 389 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,000 Our new pitch was very interesting to them, 390 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,000 but they wanted to film it in Indonesia 391 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:29,000 and they wanted local mythology and history. 392 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,000 We were going to be touring the country, 393 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,000 scouting locations that could potentially be used 394 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,000 as locations for the film 395 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,000 while also learning about Indonesian culture and history. 396 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Jing: [ On phone ] I want you to go in and see 397 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,000 what this history's about, 398 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,000 try to apply it, including how to improve 399 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,000 what's the connection there. 400 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Okay? 401 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Mandarano: Okay. 402 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,000 And then we got a storm. 403 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,000 It was a torrential downpour for multiple days. 404 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,000 And I'm out trying to shoot street photography 405 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,000 with my little camera. 406 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,000 After a couple days of that exposure to water, 407 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,000 it stopped working completely. 408 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000 I didn't know what to do. I felt absolutely trapped. 409 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,000 I had seen a Nikon camera store a couple days before that. 410 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,000 I'm like, "Am I gonna have to go and buy a new camera now? 411 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,000 'Cause I definitely can't afford that. 412 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,000 If I can't take photos of the rest of this assignment, 413 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,000 I might get just dropped." 414 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,000 It was overwhelming to just be in that hotel room, 415 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,000 just by myself. 416 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,000 I took my camera to the bathroom, 417 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,000 and I'm pointing the hair dryer at it. 418 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Eventually, I, like, had the brilliant idea 419 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,000 to duct tape the hair dryer to the ground 420 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000 and just set my camera in front of it. 421 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,000 I just, like, let it run all night. 422 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,000 [ Hair dryer whooshes ] 423 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000 If there's something wrong, they can't know. 424 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000 If I have to shoot it on my phone, 425 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,000 I'll shoot it on my phone, 426 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,000 but I'm finishing this thing. 427 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,000 The next morning, I test my camera, and it's working, 428 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,000 and I'm just like, "Thank God." 429 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,000 [ Camera shutter clicks ] 430 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,000 Brinkman Evans: I was photographing constantly. 431 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,000 You know, all the locations I went to were amazing. 432 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,000 I mean, they were so cool. They were very well-researched. 433 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,000 [ Camera shutter clicking ] 434 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,000 I went to e-mail Aaron and just let him know 435 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,000 that the day was going well. 436 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000 And the e-mail bounced back. 437 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000 And I lost my mind. 438 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000 I was like, "This is it. They've canceled my job." 439 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000 So I got back in the car, fully prepared to come home. 440 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,000 And I got a call from Aaron. [ Cellphone vibrates ] 441 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:50,000 And I have never been spoken to like that in my life. 442 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,000 I said I had tried to reach him earlier in the day via e-mail, 443 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000 and that it bounced back. 444 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000 And I said, "Yeah, it was just such 445 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,000 a weird thing to have happen." 446 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,000 Like, it was a weird tech issue. 447 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,000 And he said, "How dare you? 448 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,000 What do you mean, weird?" 449 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000 He was like, "Actually, no, you're weird." 450 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,000 He was like, "I've never been called weird in my entire life." 451 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000 He was like, "That's such an offensive thing 452 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000 to say to another person -- 'You're weird.'" 453 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,000 And he's screaming so loudly the driver can hear, 454 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,000 and he's kind of looking back at me to make sure I'm okay. 455 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000 And at this point, I've just got the phone over here. 456 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000 It's deeply overwhelming and scary 457 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:37,000 when someone is being so aggressive with you. 458 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000 And then he said, "You know I have the power 459 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000 to make this all go away. 460 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,000 All I have to do is tell Wendi 461 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,000 that you're being really difficult, 462 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,000 and this all goes away and you go home." 463 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000 I got home that night to my hotel 464 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,000 and, admittedly, bawled. 465 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,000 I spoke to Wendi the next morning, 466 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,000 and she was very apologetic for Aaron's behavior. 467 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,000 She said, "There's no reason 468 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,000 why Aaron ever should have spoken to you that way." 469 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Aaron calls again, and he's like, 470 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000 "Okay, well, Wendi wants to get on the phone here." 471 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,000 So Wendi Murdoch gets on the phone. 472 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,000 She was just like, "You know, we really want to work with you, 473 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000 and we want to help your cause a lot." 474 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,000 And then she asked if I wouldn't mind speaking to Laurene Jobs. 475 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,000 And I'm like, "Sure. 476 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,000 Put her on," you know? 477 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000 And she gets on the phone. 478 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,000 She said, "I was actually the one 479 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,000 who chose you from the Men's Health magazine cover 480 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000 and suggested to Wendi to use you." 481 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000 And she's like, "I really like your look. 482 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,000 I think you're really sexy, and I love your voice." 483 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000 I said, "Oh, thanks." 484 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,000 She's like, "So, would you say my name?" 485 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000 And I said, "Laurene." 486 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000 She goes, "Can you say it again?" 487 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000 I said, "Laurene." 488 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 She goes, "Can you keep on saying it for me? 489 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000 I find it very sexy." 490 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,000 So I'm like, "Laurene, Laurene, Laurene." 491 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,000 And the whole time, 492 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,000 I'm looking around this hotel room, 493 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000 going, "What is going on here?" 494 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,000 And just when I thought it couldn't get any weirder, 495 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,000 out comes a [moans] 496 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000 on the phone, 497 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,000 and I'm like, "Where is someone now?" 498 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000 Like, "When does this happen? 499 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Laurene Jobs is on the phone 500 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,000 getting off to me saying her name in an Aussie accent." 501 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000 I lay down on the bed, thinking, 502 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,000 "What the fuck has just happened, then?" 503 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,000 ♪♪ 504 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Mandarano: Nothing was certain, 505 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000 and the uncertainty was always held over our heads. 506 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000 We had to be fighting an uphill battle 507 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000 to give them what they want, 508 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000 but also we were given a lot of work to do. 509 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000 [ Keyboard clacking ] We'd have to write updates -- 510 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000 the things that we were coming up with, 511 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,000 how we were going to approach the story that we were telling, 512 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000 which had begun to morph 513 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,000 from being a sci-fi to being a fantasy. 514 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,000 And every location we went to, 515 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,000 we had to pay more money for the driving expenses. 516 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000 The reimbursement memos were signed, 517 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000 and they were turned over to their accounting department. 518 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000 Huilang knew where the money was coming from, 519 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,000 and therefore my parents were put in the position 520 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,000 where they were communicating with Huilang, 521 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,000 having multiple hour-long conversations on a daily basis. 522 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Jing: [ On phone ] I'm following up with your mother every day. 523 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Even for accounting -- Today I called the bank 524 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000 to check on the reimbursements with your mother 525 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000 to see that everything is fine. 526 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000 My accounting did that, and your mom can vouch for that. 527 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Mandarano: Okay. 528 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 And there was always large delays. 529 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000 So things got deferred. 530 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,000 Martin: I started wondering, 531 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,000 "When is this deposit gonna show up?" 532 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000 And I voiced my concerns to Aaron, 533 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,000 but there was always kind of an excuse. 534 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000 And it got to the point where I was taking out 535 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000 these large sums of cash so frequently 536 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000 that my bank shut down my card. 537 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,000 I called my bank and was like, 538 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000 "What's going on with this transfer? 539 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000 Can you just check and see if it's being processed?" 540 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000 "No, we can't." 541 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,000 So, at this point, I'm starting to kind of become suspicious 542 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,000 of Wendi and Aaron. 543 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000 Brinkman Evans: So, I went home 544 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,000 to have Christmas at home with my family, 545 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000 and I got a call from Wendi. [ Cellphone vibrates ] 546 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000 She said, "I know your family is really important to you, 547 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,000 but can you go back to Indonesia?" 548 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,000 She said, "We will pay you $10,000 U.S. for one day." 549 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,000 And I said no. 550 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000 I said, "You have enough of my work to figure out 551 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000 whether or not you want to work with me or not." 552 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,000 And then I got a phone call from Aaron. 553 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,000 [ Cellphone vibrates ] He said, "Technically, 554 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 you broke the confines of your contract 555 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,000 because you didn't go to one of the locations 556 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000 that was stipulated. 557 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,000 And if you don't go, we will sue you." 558 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000 And he said, "We know that 559 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000 your boyfriend is a writer in Newfoundland, 560 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000 and we'll, like, drag his name through the mud. 561 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000 We know that you work in Newfoundland. 562 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,000 We'll make sure you never work on a film set again." 563 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,000 I mean, I thought I was gonna throw up. 564 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,000 My legs were shaking. 565 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000 I just said yes. I just said sure. 566 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000 ♪♪ 567 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000 Mandarano: My mother got tired of dealing with Huilang 568 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,000 and passed off communications with her 569 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,000 to my younger sister Michelina. 570 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,000 Huilang liked her so much that she attached my sister 571 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,000 as the manager to the project, 572 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,000 and would thus be entitled to a percentage of everything. 573 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000 This planted a seed with Dave, 574 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000 where he started to feel like my family 575 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,000 were trying to cut our way deeper into the project 576 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,000 and get more money out of it. 577 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,000 The deal memo was the penultimate end of the process. 578 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,000 When the treatment was finished, 579 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000 it would be brought to the censorship bureau, 580 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,000 and Anand would petition to have it put through. 581 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000 And it was approved. 582 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 We were ecstatic. 583 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,000 This was our career taking off. 584 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,000 I would be able to live my dream 585 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000 and tell stories that appeared on the screen. 586 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,000 We were scheduled to go in, 587 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,000 and we would have this final meeting to finish the deal memo. 588 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000 But instead of meeting us together, 589 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,000 they've decided that they'd like to meet with Dave first. 590 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,000 I had to wait in the lobby, not knowing what was going on. 591 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000 [ Elevator bell dings ] Dave gets let out of the door. 592 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000 He's smiling bright. 593 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000 He looks at me, gives me the thumbs up. 594 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000 I'm like, "Green light, baby." 595 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000 ♪♪ 596 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,000 Anand brings me in, sits me down. 597 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,000 And he was somber. 598 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,000 And I'm immediately put off. 599 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,000 And he says, "I'm sorry to say the deal memo is off the table." 600 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,000 There was literally a deal memo on the table, 601 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,000 and he pulls it away from us. 602 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,000 And I'm thinking, "What? 603 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000 Where is this coming from? What just happened?" 604 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000 And I'm like, "Well, wait, isn't there any way 605 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,000 that we could save the proj--" I'm trying to pivot again. 606 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 I'm like, "Tell us what the problem is." 607 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000 And he says, "I'm sorry, I can't tell you. 608 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Dave will tell you in the car. Good bye." 609 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,000 We go downstairs... [ Elevator bell dings ] 610 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,000 ...the driver eventually shows up, we go in. 611 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000 I'm like, "What the fuck happened in there?" 612 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,000 He explained that even though Huilang had initially 613 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,000 attached my sister as a manager onto the project, 614 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000 the higher ups didn't like the fact 615 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,000 that our professional manager was the sister to the writer, 616 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,000 and we had to negotiate my sister out of the project 617 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,000 in order for the deal memo to become valid. 618 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,000 And, like, he's happy because 619 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,000 that percentage is no longer involved. 620 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000 But I was like, "Okay, everything's still on, 621 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000 but I have to tell my sister that she's out. 622 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Ugh." 623 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,000 So I call her. 624 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000 And she says, 625 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000 "Greg, you're not gonna believe what happened." 626 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,000 And she tells me that, for hours, for hours, 627 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,000 she had been on and off the phone with Anand. 628 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,000 According to my sister, Anand said, "The deal is over 629 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000 unless Dave gets detached from the project." 630 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,000 [ Munch ] 631 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000 I'm looking at Dave and thinking, 632 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,000 "I trust this guy with my life. 633 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,000 He's not gonna lie to me about something this important." 634 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,000 And because the two stories were in such contradiction, 635 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,000 at that moment, the pieces fell together for me, 636 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,000 and I said to myself, "I am being conned." 637 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000 I got on my computer, and I just started Googling, 638 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,000 like, "fraud," "Indonesia," "cons." 639 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000 ♪♪ 640 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,000 It didn't take very long for me 641 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000 to stumble across a really well-written blog post. 642 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000 Some of the stories were crazy. 643 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Here's this guy, he lost like $30,000, 644 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000 and this person getting him to do the stuff 645 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000 has got him, like, masturbating on Skype 646 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,000 and, like, these crazy things. 647 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,000 I'm like, "Well, that's not happening to me, 648 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,000 but, oh, my God." 649 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000 The floor just came out, 650 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,000 and Wendi's gonna call me in an hour. 651 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000 So I just went into complete, like, paranoia mode 652 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,000 and unplugged my phone from the wall, 653 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,000 and was just pacing back and forth, 654 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,000 like, "Am I gonna die?" 655 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,000 Like, "Is someone gonna beat me up and take all my gear? 656 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,000 How am I gonna get home? I'm in Jakarta." 657 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000 I packed my bags, got on the plane one last time, 658 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,000 landed in Singapore for my layover, 659 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,000 and I got an e-mail from one of my childhood best friends. 660 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,000 In the body of the e-mail, 661 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,000 there was just a link to this girl, 662 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,000 Carley Rudd, her blog. 663 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000 And I was completely at a loss. 664 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,000 And to be honest, I felt... 665 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,000 a little relieved. 666 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,000 Rider: The next day, Wendi gets on the phone, 667 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000 and I said, "What is it that you want me to do today?" 668 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000 She's like, "You got to go out to that location." 669 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,000 I said, "So you want to, again, still, 670 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,000 drive me 5 1/2 hours away to the middle of nowhere? 671 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,000 Is there a camera crew or anything there today?" 672 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,000 "No." And I said, "Right. 673 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,000 Let me tell you something. 674 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,000 This is a scam, and I know it's a scam, 675 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,000 but the reason I've come 676 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,000 is because you've put so much detail into this, 677 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000 and what have you actually got out of this? 678 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,000 You got $1,000 out of this." 679 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,000 And then there was a pause on the phone. 680 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000 She said, "We want to just continue on 681 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,000 with what we're doing. 682 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,000 The driver's on the way. 683 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,000 He's five minutes away. 684 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000 He's gonna pick you up." 685 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,000 I said, "No worries. 686 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000 You send the driver. 687 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,000 My bags are packed. 688 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,000 I'm going out front. 689 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,000 I'll wait for him." 690 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,000 Walk out front, grab a taxi straight to the airport, 691 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000 first plane to Bali, off. 692 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,000 Rest of the week, surf in Bali with one of my mates. 693 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,000 Epic waves, absolutely pumping. 694 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,000 I'm like, "How good's this?" 695 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000 I sent Carley Rudd an e-mail. 696 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,000 She put me in touch with 697 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,000 Nicoletta from K2 Investigations. 698 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,000 ♪♪ 699 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Kotsianas: I think, to some extent, 700 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000 Hollywood runs on dreamers. 701 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,000 You inherently have to have optimism about yourself 702 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,000 and your talents. 703 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000 And so, I think that 704 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:06,000 Hollywood is uniquely set up in a way that this scam works. 705 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,000 ♪♪ 706 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,000 I received a call from 707 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,000 an attorney based out of Los Angeles, 708 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000 and they said someone was impersonating their client, 709 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,000 who was a female producer. 710 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,000 "Can you take a look?" 711 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000 And then, about three weeks into the investigation, 712 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000 we heard from the first person who was in Indonesia 713 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,000 as they were realizing that they were being scammed. 714 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000 Martin: I realized they were trying to take everything I had 715 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,000 and hopefully take everything my family had, 716 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000 and I didn't know how far it could go. 717 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,000 Kotsianas: My head was spinning. 718 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,000 I didn't understand what this was about. 719 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,000 And once we had spoken to maybe five or six victims, 720 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,000 the shape of the scam was becoming clear. 721 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,000 The advent of the Internet has caused a proliferation 722 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000 of what we call social-engineering scams, 723 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,000 where the scammer studies a bit of information about you 724 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,000 and then tailors a scam to you specifically. 725 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,000 Rider: At the time, I was thinking, 726 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000 "Is there, like, a huge team 727 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,000 researching every single part of my life?" 728 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,000 Like, they knew things about me that I'd forgotten about. 729 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000 Kotsianas: It's been a lot of people 730 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,000 who are at the point in their life 731 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000 where they're ready for the next level, 732 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000 and they think that they've been plucked 733 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000 and they've been discovered. 734 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Martin: You know, to, like, sit down 735 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,000 and really kind of plan what my goals were as a photographer, 736 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000 I didn't have time. 737 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000 I was just trying to make rent. 738 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000 So in my mind, as all of this is going on, 739 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,000 I'm just seeing the potential of where this could put me, 740 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,000 so I'm just trying not to mess it up. 741 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,000 It was almost my mantra for the entire trip -- 742 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,000 "Don't mess this up, don't mess this up." 743 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,000 Kotsianas: The scammer had set up fake websites 744 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000 for film production companies, 745 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,000 and it's a honey trap. 746 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000 You're just sitting there waiting 747 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,000 for who didn't do any due diligence. 748 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,000 Mandarano: In a con, the rope draws the mark in. 749 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,000 And, for me, the website was the rope, 750 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,000 and I got drawn right into the boat. 751 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000 Kotsianas: When we initially brought this to law enforcement, 752 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000 they said, "This case isn't big enough." 753 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000 We knew that the more victims that we could speak to 754 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,000 would help us to better understand what was going on. 755 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,000 And also, it would make a better pitch for law enforcement 756 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,000 that they should take this seriously. 757 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,000 I started to find dozens of other people, 758 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,000 so I started reaching out to those people. 759 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,000 Rider: Nicolette contacted me by e-mail 760 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000 asking if she can call me. 761 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 And she started explaining that hundreds of other people 762 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000 are being done by this, 763 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000 and the different sorts of people -- 764 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,000 you know, like stuntmen and writers and camera guys 765 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,000 and models and actors and all sorts of stuff. 766 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,000 Kotsianas: When it became clear 767 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,000 that this had been going on for many years, 768 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000 we made the decision to try to stop it. 769 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,000 We were hearing of domains and shutting them down. 770 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,000 Brinkman Evans: Nicoletta called me immediately, 771 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,000 and when I told her that I was worried 772 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,000 that they had kicked me out of the job 773 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,000 because this e-mail bounced back, 774 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,000 she said, "That was me!" 775 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000 She said, "I shut down their e-mails, 776 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,000 hoping that anyone on the ground wouldn't hear from them 777 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000 and then be able to go home." 778 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,000 Kotsianas: People describe sort of a traumatic experience, 779 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,000 and they're saying, "Should I go to the embassy? 780 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Should I go to the police? What should I do?" 781 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000 This is uncharted territory for me. 782 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,000 I'm just using my best judgment 783 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,000 and telling them, "You should get home." 784 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,000 We had indications that there were different people 785 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000 performing different tasks related to the scam. 786 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,000 The woman on the phone appeared to be the mastermind. 787 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] The reason that I have you in those locations 788 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,000 is because I have four people in my panel, 789 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,000 and we wanted to sort of test the waters with you 790 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,000 in those locations. 791 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,000 Kotsianas: As we heard from more victims, 792 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,000 we started to get more recordings of conversations. 793 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,000 Gersh: [ On phone ] I just wanted to explain to you guys 794 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,000 about the airport pickup at about 8:00 a.m. 795 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] You don't have to worry about accommodations. 796 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,000 The flights are reimbursed immediately along with your fee. 797 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,000 We started to notice turns of phrase, 798 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,000 some accent features that were all lining up. 799 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] My question to you is -- 800 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,000 Were you uncomfortable? 801 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,000 Gersh: [ On phone ] My question to you is -- 802 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,000 Why was there no information to us 803 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,000 that you missed your flight? 804 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] My question to you is -- 805 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,000 Would it be the same room? Separate rooms? 806 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,000 That is my question. 807 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,000 We were listening back to back and going back and forth, 808 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,000 "Listen to that one, listen to that one." 809 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:12,000 And it was becoming clear that this is the same person 810 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,000 playing the man and playing the woman. 811 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,000 In the moment, it was like the "Usual Suspects" moment. 812 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,000 Like [vocalizing] 813 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,000 Like, "That's what this is." 814 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,000 Rider: When Nicolette told me that it's one person, 815 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000 I was blown away. 816 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,000 I mean, hats off to the person. 817 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,000 I think they're incredible, what they've done. 818 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,000 Mandarano: You're talking about someone 819 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,000 who could use different voices 820 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,000 and stay in character for hours on end every single day, 821 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,000 and that you would never think they were the same person. 822 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,000 Brinkman Evans: Wendi's good cop, 823 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,000 and Aaron is bad cop, 824 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,000 and they play off of each other. 825 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,000 And they do it seamlessly. 826 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,000 Martin: There were things where 827 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,000 Aaron would pseudo be talking about Wendi behind her back. 828 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,000 "Oh, Wendi would never say this, 829 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,000 but the place you're going to really isn't safe, 830 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,000 and things are done this way there," 831 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000 and, like, things like that -- just nuances. 832 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000 If that's one person, they're incredibly intelligent 833 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,000 and talented at what they do. 834 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,000 I quite literally had a moment where I thought, 835 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,000 "If you had used your powers for good, 836 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,000 the things you could have achieved," 837 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,000 because some of the feedback on my work was very fitting, 838 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000 it was very appropriate. 839 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000 Mandarano: The ideas, the creative input 840 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,000 that was dribbled throughout the process, 841 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000 was brilliant in terms of the story's context. 842 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,000 Jing: [ On phone ] A series of flashbacks would work 843 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,000 because we wanted to build it. 844 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,000 You know, like a building kind of moment. 845 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,000 All the way to the climax for Mary. 846 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,000 Mandarano: Interesting. That's a good idea, yeah. 847 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,000 To be able to place yourself in the role of a producer 848 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,000 and develop something, it must have been 849 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,000 coming from a place of passion for this person. 850 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,000 Kotsianas: I've long thought that 851 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000 the primary motivating factor 852 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,000 for this scam is not the money, 853 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,000 but it's about the roleplay and the world building 854 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:20,000 and the tension that's created and the manipulation. 855 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,000 Brinkman Evans: I couldn't stomach 856 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,000 knowing that there were other people who could be exposed 857 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,000 to that level of psychological manipulation. 858 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,000 And I wanted evidence of it. 859 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,000 I wanted records, 860 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,000 I wanted this person's voice recorded. 861 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,000 Aaron, hi. 862 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,000 Gersh: [ On phone ] Yeah, what's going on? 863 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,000 Brinkman Evans: I'm so sorry that I missed my flight. 864 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000 But I just checked my bank account, 865 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000 and there's still no money. 866 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000 But I also noted that there are no -- 867 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,000 Aaron: [ On phone ] Yeah, I was threatened -- 868 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,000 I was threatened by your dad, actually. 869 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,000 He contacted me and said he knows who I am. 870 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,000 And he would kill me. 871 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,000 Brinkman Evans: I mean, that's so not him. 872 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,000 My dad would never threaten to kill anybody. 873 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,000 I lost everything, 874 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,000 so the fact that I was asking for what was rightfully mine, 875 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,000 and he still makes me try and feel like the bad guy, 876 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,000 it's manipulation like I've never seen before. 877 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,000 Martin: The last time I spoke to Wendi, 878 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,000 I was just trying to position her in a place of power 879 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,000 and calling on her mercy to leave me alone. 880 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,000 I can tell that you genuinely want to help me. 881 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,000 I was surprised that you would reach out to me, 882 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,000 even for this project. 883 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,000 And so I was very flattered, and, um -- 884 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] I just feel very special with you. 885 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,000 Do you know what I mean? 886 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,000 Martin: Yeah. 887 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,000 Wendi: Do you feel that way? 888 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,000 Martin: Yes. 889 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000 As that was happening, 890 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,000 I was deducing why things turned sexual 891 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,000 for that other person in this blog post. 892 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,000 If you can make this person ashamed, 893 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,000 then they won't tell anybody. 894 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,000 And I was realizing that as Wendi was starting 895 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,000 to turn our conversation into, like, a sexual place. 896 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,000 Wendi: [ On phone ] Do you do personal portraits? 897 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,000 Martin: Um, I do, yes. 898 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000 Wendi: Because later on, I'll ask you to do mine. 899 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,000 Martin: I'd love that. That'd be awesome. 900 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,000 Wendi: But I'd like something more sexy. 901 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,000 Can you do that? 902 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,000 [ Martin chuckles uncomfortably ] 903 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,000 Eventually, an article came out in the Hollywood Reporter 904 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,000 which said that it was all orchestrated by this woman 905 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,000 and no one ever met the man. 906 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000 Kotsianas: Overwhelmingly, people were convinced 907 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000 that it was a woman, 908 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,000 but it became clear 909 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,000 when we were listening to all these recordings, 910 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,000 in combination with other information 911 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,000 that we were learning, 912 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,000 that the con artist was not the Con Queen of Hollywood. 913 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000 It was a man. 914 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,000 Mandarano: It was one man who was capable 915 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,000 of meeting with people in person, 916 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,000 like when he met me, 917 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,000 but my con made him realize 918 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,000 that there was more money to be made in tours. 919 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,000 And so everybody else became a tour con. 920 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,000 And beyond that, no one met him in person. 921 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,000 Kotsianas: The sexual dynamics became more twisted, obviously. 922 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:32,000 It became clear the psychological piece 923 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,000 of the manipulation that was going on 924 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000 was beyond the scam. 925 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,000 Rider: Seeing as I only handed over $1,000, 926 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,000 for me, it couldn't have been about the money. 927 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:48,000 It was just about the end climax on the phone for him. 928 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,000 Brinkman Evans: It made a little more sense in my mind 929 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,000 to find out that it was a man and to find out, 930 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,000 through talking to Nicoletta, that Aaron was probably 931 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,000 a little more true to the scammer's nature. 932 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,000 Kotsianas: I think it's an individual 933 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,000 who doesn't know how to interact with people 934 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,000 unless they're manipulating them. 935 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,000 This is a common characteristic 936 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:18,000 of what a psychiatrist would classify as a sociopath. 937 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,000 Martin: I think they just enjoyed the con. 938 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,000 I think that those relationships that this person creates 939 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,000 using another persona 940 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,000 give a thrill or maybe a deeper connection. 941 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,000 Mandarano: It all comes back to the roleplaying games 942 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,000 in that respect. 943 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,000 You know, for him, he's not, like, a player. 944 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,000 He's the game master. 945 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,000 He's the master of his own story. 946 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,000 Kotsianas: We really had a lot of evidence 947 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000 and a lot of money lost, 948 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,000 that it took it from the type of case 949 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,000 that the FBI does not typically wade into 950 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,000 to something that they decided to pursue. 951 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,000 And we were serving as an intermediary 952 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000 and helping get information to law enforcement 953 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,000 that could be useful, from these victims. 954 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,000 Rider: Nicolette asked for all the information, 955 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,000 so I sent everything through to her. 956 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000 Then I got another call from her saying, 957 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,000 "What you documented really helped track down this guy, 958 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,000 and we've broken the operation in Jakarta." 959 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,000 I think whoever was doing this 960 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:29,000 was well aware that it was us behind the scenes. 961 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,000 I was out to brunch with my husband. 962 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,000 All of a sudden, my phone started to ring 963 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,000 from a blocked number. 964 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,000 And before I could get a word in, 965 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,000 the person on the other end was just mile-a-minute rambling 966 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,000 with an American accent. 967 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000 A male. 968 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,000 And the objective was to convince me 969 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,000 that they had absolutely nothing to do with the scam, 970 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,000 and they themselves had been taken in 971 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000 by a mastermind woman, 972 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,000 and they were a victim themselves. 973 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,000 You would think, if someone was being scammed themselves, 974 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,000 they would ask for help, but, no, 975 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,000 they just wanted to make me go away. 976 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,000 So I walked back into the restaurant, 977 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,000 and I said, "I just had the most bizarre call." 978 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:27,000 And my husband said, "Maybe that's your girl." 979 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,000 Mandarano: When I learned that 980 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,000 he was a man pretending to be a woman, 981 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,000 it just cemented to me his audacity. 982 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,000 He was not just a con artist pulling little street grifts. 983 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,000 He was a legitimate artist that was, like, a workhorse. 984 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000 He gave himself so much work 985 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,000 to be able to, in my case, 986 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,000 properly develop a treatment. 987 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,000 Jing: [ On phone ] We want something exciting. 988 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,000 You know, like this mysterious character, 989 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,000 but we need this mysterious character 990 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,000 to have some background. 991 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,000 Mandarano: In the story we were creating, 992 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,000 there's this little girl 993 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,000 who is from the sci-fi world, 994 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,000 but was orphaned on Earth, 995 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,000 and her father only visits her in dreams. 996 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,000 And the main villain of the story 997 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,000 is one that was developed 998 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000 between us and Huilang and us and Anand. 999 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,000 And it was a woman 1000 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,000 that manipulates everyone and everything, 1001 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,000 and was the master puppeteer over the entire story. 1002 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,000 And you learn in the story that the father figure 1003 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,000 that would appear in dreams was her all along. 1004 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000 So the main villain of the story 1005 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,000 is a woman pretending to be a man 1006 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,000 who Huilang called a "chameleon of the mind." 1007 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,000 Jing: [ On phone ] Yeah, a chameleon. 1008 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,000 But she's actually more of a chameleon of the mind. 1009 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,000 You know? 1010 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,000 Like, she can manipulate. You know? 1011 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,000 She has her own self-serving interest, 1012 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,000 but she has a backstory. 1013 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,000 Right now, we don't see that backstory. 1014 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,000 Mandarano: Huilang helped develop this character 1015 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,000 in her own self-image. 1016 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,000 And in the end of the story, she wins. 1017 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:29,000 ♪♪ 1018 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:38,000 ♪♪ 1019 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:48,000 ♪♪ 1020 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:57,000 ♪♪ 1021 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:07,000 ♪♪ 1022 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:16,000 ♪♪ 1023 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:26,000 ♪♪ 1024 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:35,000 ♪♪ 1025 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:45,000 ♪♪ 1026 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:54,000 ♪♪