1
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Good evening,
ladies and gentlemen.

2
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Before we begin
we would just like to remind you

3
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that the act you are
about to see

4
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is not for the faint of heart.

5
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Twisted Sister has been accused
of using foul,

6
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indecent and profane language
during the course of their show.

7
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If you do not-- repeat--
if you do not wish to subject yourself

8
00:00:44,369 --> 00:00:46,536
and/or your loved
ones to such abuse,

9
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then please vacate
the premises now!

10
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Thank you very much.

11
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Now?! Right.

12
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They look like women,
they play like men,

13
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and they're the biggest bunch of hell raisers
to come out of the States!

14
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It's Twisted Sister!

15
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♪ Good evening! ♪

16
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♪ Welcome to our show! ♪

17
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♪ If you've got that problem,
yeah ♪

18
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♪ Well I think that
you should know ♪

19
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♪ I want to tell you something ♪

20
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♪ I'm someone you can trust ♪

21
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♪ You better take a good
hard look ♪

22
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♪ 'Cause there's a diamond
in this dust ♪

23
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♪ Hit it!
We're no overnight sensation ♪

24
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♪ No Cinderella fantasy ♪

25
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♪ Please no plaudits
or ovations ♪

26
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♪ I've heard it all before
you see... ♪

27
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In the summer of '72

28
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I pretty much determined
that the drug scene

29
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that I had been part of as
a hippie New York City kid

30
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was pretty much over.

31
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And during that summer I had gotten
a subscription to "Fusion Magazine"

32
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and with that subscription
came a Lou Reed album,

33
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a David Bowie album,
and a Mott the Hoople album.

34
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And the cover of "Fusion"
had David Bowie on it.

35
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And I went whoa! Whoa!
What's this?!

36
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This is not the Grateful Dead.

37
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This is something
completely different.

38
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And I changed gears 180 degrees.

39
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And so when The Dolls started
playing at Mercer Arts Center,

40
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that was a new world for me.

41
00:03:03,607 --> 00:03:05,741
Bowie was there,
and Lou Reed was there.

42
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And there was this
glam glitter kinda thing.

43
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You know I strangely
was connected to it,

44
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except I was a musician

45
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and these bands
were not that musical to me.

46
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They were pretty bad actually.

47
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I mean they were awful.

48
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They looked great.
Man, The Dolls looked amazing.

49
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I would go home and go,

50
00:03:22,441 --> 00:03:24,541
"That band, if they could play,
they're gonna make a fortune.

51
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But they do suck."

52
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And I thought, "Wow, if you could get
a band like that, but be good!"

53
00:03:32,574 --> 00:03:34,342
I started to put the feelers out,

54
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you know, that I wanted
to be in a glitter band.

55
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And I get this phone call
from a guy

56
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who kinda sounded
like Rocky Balboa.

57
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And he was like,
"Hey, how you doing?

58
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My name is Mel,
you's inta Glittah?"

59
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"You's inta Glittah?"--
I'd never heard that phrase,

60
00:03:45,642 --> 00:03:47,775
"Youse inta Glittah."
Like You's?

61
00:03:47,875 --> 00:03:49,809
Yeah, I'm into glitter.

62
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"Bowie, Lou Reed,
Mott the Hoople, yeah, yeah."

63
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"We gotta band together,

64
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and we're gonna be like
dressing like women."

65
00:03:55,609 --> 00:03:56,609
I said, "Really?"

66
00:03:56,675 --> 00:03:58,075
I said,
"Are there a lot of groupies?"

67
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He said, "Oh yeah,
you gonna get laid a lot."

68
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And when he comes to my house,

69
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you know, the doorbell rings
and I look out.

70
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And there's this
African-American guy there.

71
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And I go, "Excuse me,
who are you?"

72
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And he goes, "It's Mel."
And I went, "Oh, okay. Whatever."

73
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We get in the car and drive
to the first rehearsal in New Jersey.

74
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And they told me that night,
if you want the gig, you want in,

75
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basically it's yours.

76
00:04:19,076 --> 00:04:21,343
The band had
a kind of template.

77
00:04:21,410 --> 00:04:22,743
There was Michael
the singer,

78
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and Billy the guitar player

79
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who fashioned themselves
as Mick and Keith.

80
00:04:27,543 --> 00:04:30,010
Mel was more
of a jazz-influenced drummer,

81
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I think, but a good drummer.

82
00:04:32,111 --> 00:04:35,411
Kenny on bass
was this great musician

83
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who seemed a little out of place
in the whole thing socially,

84
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but a sensational musician.

85
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So I thought
here's a good playing band.

86
00:04:42,777 --> 00:04:44,944
And we're gonna
be like looking really great--

87
00:04:45,011 --> 00:04:45,944
like, we'll look like The Dolls,

88
00:04:46,011 --> 00:04:47,777
but we'll sound much better,
and we'll get a record deal.

89
00:04:47,877 --> 00:04:50,544
Hello, Stu?
You're gonna freak out.

90
00:04:50,644 --> 00:04:51,911
You should see this act.

91
00:04:51,977 --> 00:04:55,411
The New York Dolls have
nothing on these guys.

92
00:04:55,511 --> 00:04:59,044
One of the first questions
they asked me was would you be,

93
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um, against like putting on any
makeup or anything like that.

94
00:05:02,345 --> 00:05:04,078
And I figured yeah,
okay I could do that.

95
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I never had.
Now this was stuff different

96
00:05:07,012 --> 00:05:08,545
than what I was used to playing.

97
00:05:08,612 --> 00:05:10,578
They were playing
like David Bowie--

98
00:05:10,645 --> 00:05:11,978
like David who?!

99
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This is, like, a little weird.
I didn't say anything,

100
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'cause I wanted to be
like a team player.

101
00:05:17,445 --> 00:05:19,578
So I wasn't really sure
if I liked it,

102
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but when we would play
some of the songs,

103
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like the energy was there.

104
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And one thing for sure was,

105
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I didn't wanna have to go get
a real job again.

106
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In the '70s,
in New York,

107
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the capital of the world
which had sort of been abandoned

108
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by the grownups at that point

109
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and left to anybody who had
the balls to still live there.

110
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In the city proper you had rap,

111
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which was you
know being born and developing

112
00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:48,779
and punk was growing out
of downtown.

113
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And as soon as you went
over a bridge

114
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or through
a tunnel and left the city...

115
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you were in America,
essentially,

116
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and it was
a different world.

117
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The beauty of that era
was that there was absolutely...

118
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nothing to do
as far as nightlife,

119
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except for go to the movies
or go see a live band.

120
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And there was usually more
happening with the live bands.

121
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And it was great

122
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because everybody just
came out in droves.

123
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The scene at that time, mid-'70s
or so, in the Tri-State area

124
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started originally
like in Westchester County

125
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and some parts of Long Island,

126
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and it just grew
and grew and grew.

127
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What I've understood,

128
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it's the only place
in the country

129
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that had this kind
of intense club area.

130
00:06:39,781 --> 00:06:43,715
And much like there are still
to this day Top 40 bands,

131
00:06:43,815 --> 00:06:46,481
uh, club owners
were looking for

132
00:06:46,581 --> 00:06:48,781
bands that played the hits
of the day.

133
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We were playing Led Zeppelin,

134
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we were playing The Who,
we were playing Jethro Tull,

135
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we were pretty infamous
for that.

136
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And it was all done properly.

137
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It was all done up to snuff

138
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Everybody wanted to see,
oh, could they do AC/DC?

139
00:07:02,549 --> 00:07:04,682
Could they do Led Zeppelin?

140
00:07:04,782 --> 00:07:06,016
How good could they do this?

141
00:07:06,082 --> 00:07:07,916
Nobody wanted
to hear original music.

142
00:07:07,982 --> 00:07:10,682
And nobody played original music
at that time.

143
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And lo and behold,
once you got into the circuit,

144
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and you swam in that stream,

145
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You know, all of a sudden it all
opened up, and there we were.

146
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The first show
at the Satellite

147
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was definitely something
different.

148
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It was like a huge place,

149
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and it actually was right
near Fort Dix Army base

150
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and then right across the street
from McGuire Air Force base.

151
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So you had like the Air Force
and the Army

152
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and all these guys coming here.

153
00:07:52,917 --> 00:07:54,684
The makeup we were
doing was very feminine.

154
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And I remember
being like really nervous.

155
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'Cause I'm thinking well they're
gonna take one look at us

156
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and they're gonna
start throwing stuff.

157
00:08:01,484 --> 00:08:02,684
But there was no one
in this room.

158
00:08:02,751 --> 00:08:05,418
It was a giant bowling alley
that holds 3,000 people.

159
00:08:05,484 --> 00:08:06,751
There was maybe
20 people a night.

160
00:08:06,818 --> 00:08:08,084
Tuesday night, nobody.

161
00:08:08,351 --> 00:08:09,651
Wednesday night, nobody.
Thursday night, nobody.

162
00:08:09,751 --> 00:08:11,718
We kinda get comfortable
into the groove,

163
00:08:11,784 --> 00:08:14,084
that maybe nobody's gonna show
up and we'll learn the songs

164
00:08:14,384 --> 00:08:16,584
'cause we barely knew enough
songs to get through three sets.

165
00:08:16,651 --> 00:08:18,884
We had to play five.
Come the weekend, bang!

166
00:08:18,951 --> 00:08:21,651
There was 3,000 G.I.s--
oh, my God!

167
00:08:23,452 --> 00:08:25,419
I was sick,
physically sick to my stomach.

168
00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:27,685
Looked outside,
saw these 3,000 people,

169
00:08:27,752 --> 00:08:29,952
saw myself in a dress
with a dog collar on,

170
00:08:30,019 --> 00:08:31,885
thinking, "Oh, I am gonna
just get killed.

171
00:08:31,985 --> 00:08:33,685
"This is where I'm gonna die.

172
00:08:33,752 --> 00:08:37,819
It's come to this, dressed
in drag, I'm gonna be murdered."

173
00:08:37,885 --> 00:08:39,752
But for whatever reason,

174
00:08:39,819 --> 00:08:42,419
the soldiers there were just
drunk and wanted entertainment!

175
00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:58,086
Around 16 years old
I was coming to a crossroads

176
00:08:58,386 --> 00:09:00,920
where as an unpopular kid

177
00:09:00,986 --> 00:09:02,753
who didn't have many friends
or didn't fit in

178
00:09:02,853 --> 00:09:05,120
with any cliques or
anything like that,

179
00:09:05,386 --> 00:09:08,353
I, um, came to a point
where I really realized

180
00:09:08,420 --> 00:09:09,920
that I was sort of fading.

181
00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:12,553
I was fading
into the background,

182
00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:14,420
and I was becoming a nonentity.

183
00:09:14,486 --> 00:09:17,920
And I remember literally sort
of shaking myself and saying,

184
00:09:18,020 --> 00:09:21,387
that, you know, I will not go
quietly into the night!

185
00:09:26,021 --> 00:09:27,854
And I was this sort of outcast
but I didn't really care.

186
00:09:27,954 --> 00:09:30,354
I just became my own person.

187
00:09:30,421 --> 00:09:33,587
I always sang in bands.
And that I started to excel at.

188
00:09:33,654 --> 00:09:36,554
So my bands started becoming
the popular bands in the school.

189
00:09:36,621 --> 00:09:38,921
Harlequin was my
post-high school band--

190
00:09:38,987 --> 00:09:43,887
my first band to start to play out
in clubs a little bit.

191
00:09:43,987 --> 00:09:45,354
But somewhere along the way,

192
00:09:45,454 --> 00:09:49,021
I was offered the opportunity
to join a working bar band,

193
00:09:49,121 --> 00:09:51,988
who weren't nearly
the band Harlequin was.

194
00:09:52,055 --> 00:09:53,522
They were called Peacock.

195
00:09:53,622 --> 00:09:55,522
But it was gonna
give me the opportunity

196
00:09:55,588 --> 00:09:57,755
to actually make a living.

197
00:09:57,822 --> 00:10:01,022
And I figured
I would really hone my craft.

198
00:10:01,088 --> 00:10:04,888
So I left a much better band
to join a weaker band.

199
00:10:11,588 --> 00:10:13,722
People just couldn't get over
the way we looked.

200
00:10:13,788 --> 00:10:16,088
There really wasn't anybody
else out there in the scene

201
00:10:16,355 --> 00:10:18,055
that was doing anything
like what we were doing.

202
00:10:23,856 --> 00:10:25,823
We would kiss
during the Bowie medley.

203
00:10:25,923 --> 00:10:28,023
And that would be
outrageous, but cool.

204
00:10:28,089 --> 00:10:30,023
And the chicks would dig it,
and we'd get laid a lot.

205
00:10:30,089 --> 00:10:32,889
We got these dog collars--

206
00:10:32,956 --> 00:10:37,089
pretty severe, you know,
like this high, and studs.

207
00:10:37,356 --> 00:10:40,656
And we got a chain and we would
chain each other together.

208
00:10:40,723 --> 00:10:43,823
One thing we had to be careful
though was to make sure

209
00:10:43,889 --> 00:10:45,689
the amplifiers were
grounded properly.

210
00:10:45,756 --> 00:10:47,923
Otherwise you get
a heck of a shock.

211
00:10:48,024 --> 00:10:49,890
We got a truck really cheap.

212
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:52,090
And we were able
to make $150 a night,

213
00:10:52,357 --> 00:10:54,357
six nights a week
playing in one club.

214
00:10:54,457 --> 00:10:56,390
You could actually make money.

215
00:10:56,457 --> 00:11:01,657
I mean,
without sounding like my dad,

216
00:11:01,724 --> 00:11:03,857
gas was, you know,
29 cents a gallon

217
00:11:03,924 --> 00:11:06,424
and hotels were $39 a night,

218
00:11:06,490 --> 00:11:08,490
and the truck rental
was like 50 bucks a week.

219
00:11:08,557 --> 00:11:10,457
I mean you could
actually function.

220
00:11:11,457 --> 00:11:14,457
We get the house band gig at
the Mad Hatter in the Hamptons,

221
00:11:14,524 --> 00:11:16,991
which is this big nightclub
in Long Island.

222
00:11:17,091 --> 00:11:20,991
For the summer of '73, 15 weeks
in a row, living above the club.

223
00:11:21,091 --> 00:11:22,025
We're 20.

224
00:11:22,125 --> 00:11:23,125
What do you think?

225
00:11:23,391 --> 00:11:27,925
I mean it was ridiculous.
It was fun.

226
00:11:28,025 --> 00:11:31,658
It was insane.
There were women everywhere.

227
00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:34,825
The place would be absolutely
packed shoulder to shoulder.

228
00:11:34,925 --> 00:11:35,925
People were going crazy.

229
00:11:35,991 --> 00:11:39,458
The only problem was Michael
would get drunk as the night would go on,

230
00:11:39,558 --> 00:11:43,525
and we'd play less music and
Michael would start to, like, drool.

231
00:11:43,591 --> 00:11:47,826
It was, like, well
I shouldn't say funny,

232
00:11:47,892 --> 00:11:49,992
but when you're
looking up at the stage

233
00:11:50,059 --> 00:11:53,492
and you don't see
the front man up there

234
00:11:53,592 --> 00:11:56,026
and you wonder-- and one of your
bouncers or your bartenders

235
00:11:56,126 --> 00:11:58,092
are telling you,
"Bob, he's over here..."

236
00:11:58,359 --> 00:11:59,692
And I'm, "Over where?"

237
00:11:59,759 --> 00:12:02,392
He fell off the stage.
He's on the side of the stage.

238
00:12:02,492 --> 00:12:03,992
I mean what kind of, you know.

239
00:12:04,059 --> 00:12:06,059
But the whole band was drunk.

240
00:12:06,359 --> 00:12:08,959
Mel fell over
on his drum seat one night.

241
00:12:09,059 --> 00:12:11,092
I remember he drank something
like nine Rusty Nails.

242
00:12:11,392 --> 00:12:13,559
He collapsed. Billy fell.

243
00:12:13,626 --> 00:12:15,127
Kenny was drunk all the time.

244
00:12:15,427 --> 00:12:17,660
I was surrounded by alcoholics,
and I didn't drink.

245
00:12:17,727 --> 00:12:18,927
But we're making music

246
00:12:18,993 --> 00:12:20,760
and we're obviously
making people happy.

247
00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:22,393
And the band became bigger

248
00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:24,693
and we finally got
into the second summer.

249
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,593
We were the house band
at the OBI East,

250
00:12:26,693 --> 00:12:28,993
which is a club 10 times
the size of the Hamptons.

251
00:12:29,060 --> 00:12:30,127
...we must have been good.

252
00:12:30,393 --> 00:12:32,893
Unfortunately, we didn't have
the ability to harness it.

253
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,093
Our management really didn't understand
what the hell we were.

254
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,527
It's like trying to put a saddle
on an atomic bomb.

255
00:12:37,593 --> 00:12:39,827
You know you kinda like
hold that sucker for as long as you can

256
00:12:39,927 --> 00:12:41,360
before the whole
thing blows up.

257
00:12:41,427 --> 00:12:43,727
And in this case with Twisted,
no one could control it.

258
00:12:43,793 --> 00:12:46,128
And alcohol eventually
dismantled the band.

259
00:12:46,428 --> 00:12:48,894
Well, we decided to get rid
of Michael and Billy.

260
00:12:48,961 --> 00:12:51,594
So we were trying
to figure out what to do next.

261
00:12:51,694 --> 00:12:53,528
We needed a new singer
and a new guitar player.

262
00:12:53,594 --> 00:12:55,561
We contacted a guy
named Keith Angel,

263
00:12:55,628 --> 00:12:58,094
He was working
with a singer named Rick Prince.

264
00:12:58,361 --> 00:12:59,728
And the two of them grafted in.

265
00:12:59,794 --> 00:13:00,894
And it was great.

266
00:13:00,994 --> 00:13:02,928
Except that in the history
of Twisted Sister,

267
00:13:03,028 --> 00:13:05,428
Rick Prince was there
for a total of nine weeks.

268
00:13:05,494 --> 00:13:06,794
Rick just one day
doesn't show to a gig,

269
00:13:06,894 --> 00:13:07,990
and we never hear
from him again.

270
00:13:07,994 --> 00:13:09,728
So now, the question is,
what do you do?

271
00:13:09,794 --> 00:13:10,828
We don't have a singer.

272
00:13:10,928 --> 00:13:12,861
I'm so sick
of depending on people.

273
00:13:12,929 --> 00:13:14,429
I figured, well, I'll sing.

274
00:13:14,529 --> 00:13:15,829
'Cause I know
I'll show up at the gig.

275
00:13:15,929 --> 00:13:17,795
But I have very limited
vocal ability.

276
00:13:17,895 --> 00:13:19,962
God created Dylan
so I could do cover material.

277
00:13:20,062 --> 00:13:22,562
So basically I become
the lead singer,

278
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:24,695
and that changes the focus
of the songs.

279
00:13:24,795 --> 00:13:26,595
We do Kinks songs now.

280
00:13:26,695 --> 00:13:29,695
We do Mott songs,
a lot more Lou Reed,

281
00:13:29,762 --> 00:13:30,695
so I can sing.

282
00:13:30,762 --> 00:13:34,129
So now it's a four-man band,
and we're working.

283
00:13:35,362 --> 00:13:36,962
My days in Peacock,

284
00:13:37,029 --> 00:13:39,593
P as in pee, C as in cock--
those of you on the left

285
00:13:39,595 --> 00:13:41,995
can see the pee, those of you
on the right can see the cock--

286
00:13:41,996 --> 00:13:44,429
that's what the keyboard
player used to say.

287
00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:46,530
In Peacock I had a chance
to hone my craft

288
00:13:46,630 --> 00:13:48,930
five days a week,
five sets a night.

289
00:13:48,996 --> 00:13:51,396
But also building
a name for myself locally.

290
00:13:51,463 --> 00:13:55,063
I knew that Twisted Sister was
a name in the club scene.

291
00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:57,696
I used to see them
in the local papers,

292
00:13:57,763 --> 00:14:00,130
and from hearing about them,
people would talk about them.

293
00:14:00,396 --> 00:14:03,796
Mott The Hoople, Lou Reed,
you know, David Bowie,

294
00:14:03,863 --> 00:14:04,830
that was their thing.

295
00:14:04,896 --> 00:14:08,363
I liked all that stuff.
I loved all that stuff.

296
00:14:08,430 --> 00:14:11,831
So I was very interested
in connecting with some people

297
00:14:11,897 --> 00:14:13,097
like who were into that.

298
00:14:13,364 --> 00:14:15,397
This new version
of Twisted Sister,

299
00:14:15,497 --> 00:14:17,431
were winding its way
through the summer.

300
00:14:17,531 --> 00:14:21,064
We lost our big gig at the OBI,
and I could sense that

301
00:14:21,131 --> 00:14:23,064
if we didn't do
something drastic,

302
00:14:23,131 --> 00:14:24,431
this band wasn't gonna last.

303
00:14:24,531 --> 00:14:27,631
And my agent suggested
we get a n-- a lead singer.

304
00:14:27,697 --> 00:14:30,031
And he suggested
this kid Danny Snider,

305
00:14:30,097 --> 00:14:31,731
from a band called Peacock.

306
00:14:31,831 --> 00:14:34,131
And I told Mel and Keith
in the dressing room

307
00:14:34,397 --> 00:14:37,431
that I'm bringing a guy down
who's showing a real interest

308
00:14:37,497 --> 00:14:38,597
in being the lead singer.

309
00:14:38,697 --> 00:14:40,832
I should have realized
from their response

310
00:14:40,898 --> 00:14:42,432
that this wasn't gonna go well.

311
00:14:42,498 --> 00:14:43,598
They went,
"No, there's no reason

312
00:14:43,665 --> 00:14:46,498
why we need a singer.
We're doing fine."

313
00:14:46,598 --> 00:14:47,765
Well, we weren't doing fine.

314
00:14:47,865 --> 00:14:51,065
I remember him coming up
and saying, "I'm what you need,

315
00:14:51,365 --> 00:14:53,432
I can do this,
I can put you over the top."

316
00:14:53,532 --> 00:14:55,832
I said, "Yeah sure,
you know, go away."

317
00:14:55,932 --> 00:14:57,798
And I said, "Okay."
And as I'm walking away,

318
00:14:57,898 --> 00:15:00,665
Jay Jay pragmatically--
always the pragmatist--

319
00:15:00,732 --> 00:15:03,465
said, "You know, give me
your phone number just in case."

320
00:15:04,765 --> 00:15:07,365
We played a show
at the Rock Palace

321
00:15:07,465 --> 00:15:09,899
at Lake Carmel
on Labor Day Weekend of '75,

322
00:15:09,999 --> 00:15:13,533
and after that night
that we played,

323
00:15:13,599 --> 00:15:16,833
Mel and Keith
took the truck.

324
00:15:16,899 --> 00:15:20,633
And said basically,
"Fuck you and Kenny.

325
00:15:20,699 --> 00:15:25,099
This is ours
and we're done with you guys."

326
00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:28,133
And we were faced with
having to break up

327
00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:29,833
or start all over again.

328
00:15:32,033 --> 00:15:33,433
Sometime around mid-October,

329
00:15:33,533 --> 00:15:36,599
I said, "Kenny, you wanna
give it another shot?"

330
00:15:36,699 --> 00:15:38,967
He said, "Yeah.
How you gonna find people?"

331
00:15:39,034 --> 00:15:41,634
I said, "Well I can call my old
guitar player from high school,

332
00:15:41,734 --> 00:15:43,100
Eddie Ojeda."

333
00:15:47,634 --> 00:15:49,467
I was always
in a working band,

334
00:15:49,534 --> 00:15:51,567
I was always playing
for a living.

335
00:15:51,634 --> 00:15:52,767
When Jay Jay first told me,

336
00:15:52,834 --> 00:15:55,067
you know, about putting a band
together and stuff,

337
00:15:55,367 --> 00:15:57,367
I was kinda surprised
that you could go out

338
00:15:57,434 --> 00:16:02,000
and play rock 'n' roll
at that time, in a band.

339
00:16:02,067 --> 00:16:03,134
I thought you had to play,

340
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,567
you know, either funk or--
you know,

341
00:16:05,634 --> 00:16:08,868
Funk is cool-- but something...
you had to play dance stuff.

342
00:16:08,968 --> 00:16:10,501
We were looking around
for a drummer

343
00:16:10,568 --> 00:16:14,468
and found Kevin John Grace and
basically trying to put together

344
00:16:14,568 --> 00:16:16,135
some of the same material
we had.

345
00:16:16,401 --> 00:16:19,135
We tried doing a
four piece, and it was cool.

346
00:16:19,401 --> 00:16:21,901
We were doing more
like Rolling Stones stuff,

347
00:16:22,001 --> 00:16:23,401
more middle of the road rock.

348
00:16:23,501 --> 00:16:25,401
I was now exposed as a singer.

349
00:16:25,501 --> 00:16:27,901
So we used to do songs
and I would berate the audience

350
00:16:28,001 --> 00:16:29,768
and try to get them
to clap along with us.

351
00:16:29,835 --> 00:16:32,401
Hustle them in any way I could
to try to get a reaction,

352
00:16:32,468 --> 00:16:33,368
because we sucked,

353
00:16:33,369 --> 00:16:35,035
or I thought we sucked
or I didn't have any confidence

354
00:16:35,036 --> 00:16:38,569
in what we did, and I figured
well, if I can't get them to--

355
00:16:38,669 --> 00:16:39,836
if we can't play better,

356
00:16:39,936 --> 00:16:42,569
I'll beat them to death
until they clap.

357
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:44,902
It was fun but it
wasn't-- it was like,

358
00:16:44,969 --> 00:16:46,902
we would have been
just a cover band.

359
00:16:47,002 --> 00:16:49,502
It woulda been just
a fun cover band.

360
00:16:49,602 --> 00:16:54,469
I had a desire to get back
to where I just was--

361
00:16:54,536 --> 00:16:55,736
forget about exceeding that.

362
00:16:55,802 --> 00:16:59,902
I already-- I'd felt, like I
said, the 2,000 people in the bar.

363
00:17:00,002 --> 00:17:01,436
I felt the power of a band.

364
00:17:01,502 --> 00:17:03,536
I wanted that, man,
I really wanted it.

365
00:17:03,602 --> 00:17:05,870
So we knew we had
to do something.

366
00:17:05,937 --> 00:17:08,837
So we decided,
let's get a singer.

367
00:17:08,937 --> 00:17:12,003
And so...

368
00:17:12,103 --> 00:17:13,603
I called Dee again.

369
00:17:13,703 --> 00:17:18,003
And he invited me to come up
to Hunter Mountain.

370
00:17:18,103 --> 00:17:20,003
The band was booked
for a weekend.

371
00:17:20,103 --> 00:17:21,970
We could audition,
and if it worked out,

372
00:17:22,037 --> 00:17:24,470
we could rehearse,
and we could play that weekend.

373
00:17:24,570 --> 00:17:26,403
This was going
to be my big audition

374
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:29,370
and my big shot at stardom.

375
00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:32,570
So we finally gave him a chance,

376
00:17:32,637 --> 00:17:34,938
and we were amazed
at how good he was.

377
00:17:35,038 --> 00:17:36,971
And one of the greatest things
was, like,

378
00:17:37,071 --> 00:17:39,038
uh, he didn't drink!

379
00:17:40,771 --> 00:17:42,771
After I did my audition,

380
00:17:42,838 --> 00:17:45,604
Jay Jay took me outside
and he sorta said,

381
00:17:45,704 --> 00:17:49,738
"Well, I own the name,
and I own the P.A. system.

382
00:17:49,838 --> 00:17:50,838
Are you cool with that?"

383
00:17:50,904 --> 00:17:52,604
And I said, "Yeah, okay."

384
00:17:52,704 --> 00:17:56,604
And he goes, "Alright,
we'll see how it goes."

385
00:17:56,704 --> 00:17:59,138
I was never officially told,
"You're in."

386
00:17:59,404 --> 00:18:01,071
It was just,
"We'll see how it goes."

387
00:18:01,138 --> 00:18:05,639
So I've been sort of on a trial
basis for the last 35 years.

388
00:18:05,705 --> 00:18:08,372
You know, I don't know,
I'm waiting to get the call.

389
00:18:11,405 --> 00:18:13,672
So we started rehearsing
with Kevin.

390
00:18:13,772 --> 00:18:16,939
And that was a problem 'cause Kevin's
drumming was not really that good,

391
00:18:17,005 --> 00:18:18,539
and we knew
that was the next issue.

392
00:18:18,605 --> 00:18:21,539
Jay Jay had
a friend named Tony Petrie,

393
00:18:21,605 --> 00:18:23,772
who he had worked
with years ago.

394
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:26,872
Jay Jay said,
"This guy Tony is a hard hitter,

395
00:18:26,972 --> 00:18:29,805
he's a great drummer,
and he's in."

396
00:18:29,872 --> 00:18:34,940
So, uh, we started rehearsals
behind Kevin John Grace's back.

397
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,373
We established a pattern
in Twisted Sister

398
00:18:37,374 --> 00:18:39,373
that you don't fire a guy
till you have a new guy ready

399
00:18:39,374 --> 00:18:40,773
because you can't afford
to lose dates.

400
00:18:40,806 --> 00:18:43,806
So we rehearsed with Tony,
we got Tony all prepped.

401
00:18:43,906 --> 00:18:45,806
We tell Kevin it's over.

402
00:18:45,906 --> 00:18:51,540
And now with the band of me
and Dee and Tony and Kenny and Eddie,

403
00:18:51,606 --> 00:18:54,706
that band now makes
the frontal assault

404
00:18:54,773 --> 00:18:56,573
on the Long Island bar scene.

405
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,706
Let's go!

406
00:19:03,007 --> 00:19:04,941
Come on, babies!
You all know the words, it's--

407
00:19:05,007 --> 00:19:06,807
Hey man!

408
00:19:06,874 --> 00:19:07,807
♪ Hey man ♪

409
00:19:07,874 --> 00:19:09,541
♪ Ah leave me alone you know ♪

410
00:19:09,641 --> 00:19:10,607
♪ Hey man ♪

411
00:19:10,674 --> 00:19:12,507
♪ Well Henry, get off the phone,
I gotta ♪

412
00:19:12,607 --> 00:19:13,507
♪ Hey man ♪

413
00:19:13,607 --> 00:19:14,807
♪ I gotta straighten my face ♪

414
00:19:14,907 --> 00:19:18,074
♪ This mellow black chick just
put my spine out of place ♪

415
00:19:18,141 --> 00:19:19,074
♪ Hey man ♪

416
00:19:19,141 --> 00:19:20,707
♪ My school day's insane ♪

417
00:19:20,807 --> 00:19:21,874
♪ Hey man ♪

418
00:19:21,941 --> 00:19:23,041
♪ My work's down the drain ♪

419
00:19:23,107 --> 00:19:24,574
♪ Hey man ♪

420
00:19:24,674 --> 00:19:26,074
♪ Well she's a total blam-blam ♪

421
00:19:26,141 --> 00:19:28,741
♪ She said she had to squeeze it
but she... then she... ♪

422
00:19:28,841 --> 00:19:31,708
♪ Ah don't lean on me, man,
'cause you can't afford the ticket ♪

423
00:19:31,808 --> 00:19:33,975
♪ I'm back from
Suffragette City ♪

424
00:19:34,042 --> 00:19:35,742
♪ Oh don't lean on me, man ♪

425
00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:37,542
♪ 'Cause you ain't got time
to check it ♪

426
00:19:37,608 --> 00:19:39,542
♪ You know my
Suffragette City... ♪

427
00:19:39,608 --> 00:19:43,008
I remember my father
was at a show.

428
00:19:43,075 --> 00:19:45,775
And my father was pretty blunt
about it. He says,

429
00:19:45,875 --> 00:19:49,508
"You guys were pretty boring till you
brought him up on stage."

430
00:19:49,575 --> 00:19:51,542
♪ Ohhh, Wham Bam
Thank you, Ma'am ♪

431
00:19:53,475 --> 00:19:55,375
♪ Suffragette City ♪

432
00:19:55,908 --> 00:19:58,575
♪ Suffragette City ♪

433
00:19:58,675 --> 00:20:00,909
♪ Suffragette! ♪

434
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:04,376
♪ Oh, Suffragette! ♪

435
00:20:06,043 --> 00:20:07,743
So then when Dee joined
the band, he said,

436
00:20:07,809 --> 00:20:09,743
"Oh, let's wear make-up
and, you know,

437
00:20:09,843 --> 00:20:11,409
and go back to that look."

438
00:20:14,409 --> 00:20:15,976
Hear that, babies?

439
00:20:16,043 --> 00:20:18,876
It may be hot
but we're gonna make it hotter!

440
00:20:21,143 --> 00:20:24,409
♪ Doo doo doo-doo
doo doo doo doo ♪

441
00:20:26,409 --> 00:20:29,144
♪ You've got your mother
in a whirl ♪

442
00:20:29,410 --> 00:20:32,377
♪ She ain't sure if you're
a boy or a girl ♪

443
00:20:32,444 --> 00:20:35,010
♪ Hey, babe,
your hair's alright ♪

444
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:38,410
♪ Hey, babe,
let's go out tonight... ♪

445
00:20:38,477 --> 00:20:41,844
Little by little we just started
getting really flashy

446
00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:44,944
and putting on more make-up
and doing up the hair

447
00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:47,077
and, you know,
the clothes and stuff,

448
00:20:47,144 --> 00:20:50,810
and stealing our mom's clothes
and things like that.

449
00:20:50,910 --> 00:20:54,510
But I only actually took
one-- two shirts from my mother.

450
00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:56,144
It's not like
I stole all her clothes.

451
00:20:56,945 --> 00:20:58,945
♪ You love bands when
they're playing hard ♪

452
00:20:59,011 --> 00:21:02,411
♪ You want more
and you want it fast ♪

453
00:21:02,511 --> 00:21:05,111
♪ They put you down,
they say I'm wrong ♪

454
00:21:05,378 --> 00:21:08,445
♪ You tacky thing,
you put them on... ♪

455
00:21:08,545 --> 00:21:09,911
As far as the image went,

456
00:21:09,978 --> 00:21:13,711
I was, like I said,
looking to get more adventurous.

457
00:21:15,378 --> 00:21:16,945
Then I met Suzette.

458
00:21:17,011 --> 00:21:20,778
Well I was 15 and
I borrowed my cousin's I.D.,

459
00:21:20,878 --> 00:21:24,111
who was much older than me,
but I looked-- I didn't look 15.

460
00:21:27,512 --> 00:21:31,646
So I snuck in, and I went
to go see the girls band, Twisted Sister.

461
00:21:31,712 --> 00:21:34,479
I thought they were gonna be
a bunch of girls, but they weren't.

462
00:21:34,546 --> 00:21:36,612
They were a bunch of men trying
to look like girls.

463
00:21:36,679 --> 00:21:39,946
I was a little blown
away when this big guy--

464
00:21:40,012 --> 00:21:42,046
'cause Dee's 6'1"--
and he was wearing,

465
00:21:42,112 --> 00:21:44,746
I think,
like eight-inch platforms,

466
00:21:44,846 --> 00:21:46,012
with little hot pants.

467
00:21:46,112 --> 00:21:50,479
He did not look attractive.
He was scary looking,

468
00:21:50,546 --> 00:21:52,846
but incredible on stage.

469
00:21:52,912 --> 00:21:58,580
And Dee mistaked me smiling as,
like, I was coming on to him.

470
00:21:58,647 --> 00:22:00,480
And Dee slowly
walked over to me,

471
00:22:00,547 --> 00:22:02,647
and he bent over on the side
of the stage

472
00:22:02,747 --> 00:22:04,680
and he kinda gave me one
of these.

473
00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:10,647
And I kinda felt like I was being
like sucked into the vortex.

474
00:22:10,713 --> 00:22:12,047
She thought I looked ridiculous

475
00:22:12,113 --> 00:22:14,513
and if I was gonna do it
I should be better at it.

476
00:22:14,580 --> 00:22:18,113
So she started pushing me
to wear lipstick.

477
00:22:18,413 --> 00:22:22,113
And I was,
"Hey, I'm not a fag."

478
00:22:22,380 --> 00:22:23,881
This was a bizarre thing to say.

479
00:22:23,948 --> 00:22:26,914
I'm wearing stockings
and hot pants when I meet her,

480
00:22:27,014 --> 00:22:28,648
and thigh-high leather boots
and gloves.

481
00:22:28,714 --> 00:22:31,414
You know-- "I'm Dee,
Blow Me" my shirt said.

482
00:22:31,514 --> 00:22:33,381
But to me that was
like the line.

483
00:22:33,448 --> 00:22:34,381
You know,
you're wearing lipstick?

484
00:22:34,448 --> 00:22:36,714
I'm not wearing lipstick.
And I remember she said,

485
00:22:36,814 --> 00:22:40,114
"Well, I got this little tray
of lip glosses."

486
00:22:40,414 --> 00:22:43,114
And here
at the bottom is just clear.

487
00:22:43,414 --> 00:22:45,881
And at the other end
was a hot bright red.

488
00:22:45,981 --> 00:22:47,514
She says,
"Just put some clear on."

489
00:22:47,581 --> 00:22:50,648
And I'm like, "Well okay, clear.
But you know.

490
00:22:50,714 --> 00:22:52,014
I'm not gay." Okay.

491
00:22:52,114 --> 00:22:53,082
Clear lip gloss.

492
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:54,915
And I quickly ran out
of that compartment

493
00:22:55,015 --> 00:22:57,615
and the next one
was a little beige-ish.

494
00:22:57,715 --> 00:22:59,015
So I went through that one.

495
00:22:59,115 --> 00:23:01,915
Well, it was
about a line of a dozen.

496
00:23:01,982 --> 00:23:04,482
By the time
I ran out of the final one,

497
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:06,515
it was as red as red could be.

498
00:23:06,582 --> 00:23:08,582
I was just full blown red.

499
00:23:11,049 --> 00:23:13,982
We thought
that it would be a great idea

500
00:23:14,082 --> 00:23:15,149
to get a band house.

501
00:23:15,415 --> 00:23:17,515
The idea being
that we would live together,

502
00:23:17,582 --> 00:23:21,449
we would create together,
we would bond.

503
00:23:21,515 --> 00:23:23,916
And we rented a house
in a really nice neighborhood

504
00:23:23,983 --> 00:23:27,650
in Massapequa, Long Island--
Old Harbor Greene.

505
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:29,750
And we all moved in.

506
00:23:33,783 --> 00:23:35,916
We worked all night
and then we'd come home.

507
00:23:35,917 --> 00:23:37,049
We'd go to sleep.
We'd wake up.

508
00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:38,816
We'd see each other
in the kitchen every day.

509
00:23:38,916 --> 00:23:40,116
So this was our lives.

510
00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:41,950
One, two, three, four!

511
00:23:47,550 --> 00:23:50,016
♪ When I was in a
rock 'n' roll band ♪

512
00:23:50,083 --> 00:23:53,151
♪ And I was playin'
a one night stand ♪

513
00:23:53,451 --> 00:23:55,717
♪ And I said I wanna
be your man ♪

514
00:23:55,784 --> 00:23:57,851
♪ And it was fine ♪

515
00:23:59,417 --> 00:24:01,917
♪ But T said that
we hadn't made it ♪

516
00:24:02,017 --> 00:24:05,484
♪ Although so invaded ♪

517
00:24:05,584 --> 00:24:08,851
♪ The situation is jaded
and it's a crime ♪

518
00:24:10,151 --> 00:24:11,451
What happened,
rather than bringing

519
00:24:11,517 --> 00:24:15,084
the band together
and bonding us,

520
00:24:15,384 --> 00:24:17,851
my alienation began
in that house.

521
00:24:17,951 --> 00:24:23,018
I really badly wanted to hang
with these guys.

522
00:24:23,085 --> 00:24:25,618
They were older than me.
They were from Manhattan.

523
00:24:25,718 --> 00:24:28,852
They were from the Bronx.
They had been in Twisted Sister.

524
00:24:28,952 --> 00:24:31,818
You know.
They were these cool guys.

525
00:24:31,885 --> 00:24:36,485
And I was this 21-year-old from
Long Island,

526
00:24:36,552 --> 00:24:38,818
a rube, a dork,

527
00:24:38,885 --> 00:24:43,118
and I didn't have nearly
the cool creds

528
00:24:43,385 --> 00:24:44,718
that they had in any fashion.

529
00:24:44,785 --> 00:24:46,952
And I really admired them
and looked up to them.

530
00:24:48,018 --> 00:24:50,819
Jay Jay was our manager.

531
00:24:50,919 --> 00:24:52,419
Kevin was our agent.

532
00:24:52,486 --> 00:24:56,153
And we were having a meeting and
discussion about the originals

533
00:24:56,419 --> 00:24:58,419
and we were talking all about
"Can't Stand Still,"

534
00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:01,019
"For A Minute," and "TV Wife,"
"Follow Me."

535
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,753
He hated the songs
that we were doing.

536
00:25:02,853 --> 00:25:05,419
And, of course, Dee being Dee
wasn't polite about it.

537
00:25:05,486 --> 00:25:07,386
It wasn't like he went,
"Hey man, you know..."

538
00:25:07,486 --> 00:25:08,719
I just blurted out,

539
00:25:08,786 --> 00:25:11,153
and just said, "These songs
are-- I don't like these songs.

540
00:25:11,419 --> 00:25:14,519
They're not right for the band.
They're not really great songs.

541
00:25:14,619 --> 00:25:16,986
They're not gonna make a difference.
Blah, blah, blah..."

542
00:25:17,053 --> 00:25:18,554
And I was just railing,

543
00:25:18,654 --> 00:25:22,520
and Kevin Brenner said,
"Do you write songs?"

544
00:25:22,587 --> 00:25:24,420
And I said, "Yes."

545
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,054
I'd written one
with Harlequin--

546
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:27,520
co-written one.

547
00:25:27,587 --> 00:25:31,820
And he says, "Do you have
any songs... to submit?"

548
00:25:31,887 --> 00:25:32,987
And I said, "No."

549
00:25:33,087 --> 00:25:35,387
And he said,
"Well shut up until you do."

550
00:25:36,987 --> 00:25:39,554
I came to Jay Jay
with an idea for a song,

551
00:25:39,620 --> 00:25:40,887
and I don't remember it.

552
00:25:40,987 --> 00:25:43,787
I very nervously
brought it to him.

553
00:25:43,887 --> 00:25:46,387
Jay Jay, of course,
did not realize

554
00:25:46,487 --> 00:25:48,488
the significance
of what was happening for me.

555
00:25:48,555 --> 00:25:51,555
And when I presented the song
to him and I sang it to him

556
00:25:51,655 --> 00:25:53,521
and I was just so nervous

557
00:25:53,588 --> 00:25:55,921
and uncomfortable
singing this song.

558
00:25:56,021 --> 00:25:57,721
Jay Jay said,

559
00:25:57,821 --> 00:26:02,021
"Oh that's about you
and Suzette? That's cute."

560
00:26:02,088 --> 00:26:04,088
And he turned away,

561
00:26:04,155 --> 00:26:08,121
and started a conversation
with somebody else.

562
00:26:08,388 --> 00:26:12,855
And that was
a really a big mistake.

563
00:26:14,721 --> 00:26:16,422
Depending on how
you look at it.

564
00:26:16,489 --> 00:26:18,022
I mean if you look at it as

565
00:26:18,089 --> 00:26:20,989
a driving,
motivating force for me

566
00:26:21,056 --> 00:26:25,422
to prove to Jay Jay
and the world

567
00:26:25,522 --> 00:26:26,622
that I was somebody,

568
00:26:26,689 --> 00:26:31,822
and the impetus to me
becoming this manic songwriter

569
00:26:31,922 --> 00:26:33,556
who just started
churning songs out

570
00:26:33,622 --> 00:26:35,389
at a ridiculous pace--

571
00:26:36,889 --> 00:26:38,989
if you look at it as that,
then it was a good thing.

572
00:26:39,056 --> 00:26:41,789
But it really distanced me
from the band,

573
00:26:41,856 --> 00:26:43,589
and I just sort of went
into my own world

574
00:26:43,656 --> 00:26:46,990
and I started creating
separately from the band.

575
00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:52,890
My sole purpose was to obliterate
Jay Jay French and his songs

576
00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:55,923
and take over song writing
completely.

577
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:58,557
I was maniacal

578
00:26:58,657 --> 00:26:59,823
and malicious.

579
00:26:59,923 --> 00:27:01,657
And uh...

580
00:27:03,057 --> 00:27:04,523
I did it.

581
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:09,090
♪ You and I,
We lit the fire ♪

582
00:27:09,390 --> 00:27:13,423
♪ We build it, baby,
My desire ♪

583
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:16,824
♪ But now you say
I overdo it ♪

584
00:27:16,891 --> 00:27:21,091
♪ Be careful, baby,
Don't make me choose it ♪

585
00:27:21,158 --> 00:27:25,524
♪ Oh, always,
Oh, always ♪

586
00:27:25,624 --> 00:27:27,124
♪ Gotta pay the price ♪

587
00:27:27,391 --> 00:27:29,524
♪ Oughta hear
who'd love for free ♪

588
00:27:29,624 --> 00:27:31,024
♪ Gotta pay the price ♪

589
00:27:31,091 --> 00:27:35,391
♪ Oh, pay the price
for loving me, yeah... ♪

590
00:27:35,458 --> 00:27:36,924
Dee didn't fit in to me.

591
00:27:37,024 --> 00:27:39,424
But then again,
I was a pragmatist.

592
00:27:39,524 --> 00:27:41,558
I needed a singer,
I'm not a singer.

593
00:27:41,624 --> 00:27:44,659
I mean, I needed somebody like
that and if it came with baggage

594
00:27:44,725 --> 00:27:47,559
I was prepared to put up
with baggage to a degree.

595
00:27:48,792 --> 00:27:51,059
It was "Come Back."
It was "Pay The Price."

596
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:53,959
I think were the first tracks.

597
00:27:54,025 --> 00:27:55,759
That's when I kinda
went, "Wow,

598
00:27:55,859 --> 00:27:57,892
the guy's got...
something there."

599
00:27:57,992 --> 00:27:59,692
♪ Pay the price ♪

600
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:03,725
♪ Oh, pay the price
for lovin' me, yeah ♪

601
00:28:03,792 --> 00:28:06,392
♪ For lovin' me, yeah... ♪

602
00:28:18,893 --> 00:28:20,126
When I joined the band,

603
00:28:20,426 --> 00:28:25,426
Jay Jay was already-- had
a rapport with the audience.

604
00:28:25,493 --> 00:28:27,426
I guess that's
what you would call it.

605
00:28:27,493 --> 00:28:29,726
A rapport where he would talk
between songs.

606
00:28:29,793 --> 00:28:31,626
There were certain songs
where he would go

607
00:28:31,693 --> 00:28:33,593
for a little audience
participation or whatever.

608
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:36,093
So it was
definitely existing

609
00:28:36,393 --> 00:28:40,627
to my memory, and I would
just stand off to the side.

610
00:28:40,694 --> 00:28:43,794
We would finish a song
and I would step back,

611
00:28:43,861 --> 00:28:46,794
Jay Jay would talk. I might
throw a word in or two here.

612
00:28:46,861 --> 00:28:48,494
But this was Jay Jay's band,

613
00:28:48,561 --> 00:28:50,794
you know
I was joining Twisted Sister.

614
00:28:50,861 --> 00:28:53,694
And I was the kid
and he was the seasoned pro.

615
00:28:53,761 --> 00:28:56,494
As the summer begins,
ladies and gentlemen,

616
00:28:56,594 --> 00:28:59,527
and we all party ourself
to death,

617
00:28:59,594 --> 00:29:02,894
we'd like to welcome you
to the summer of '77

618
00:29:02,961 --> 00:29:06,161
with a song called,
"Sweet Jane!"

619
00:29:19,395 --> 00:29:21,562
♪ Standin' on the corner ♪

620
00:29:21,662 --> 00:29:25,995
♪ Suitcase in my hand ♪

621
00:29:26,062 --> 00:29:27,928
♪ Jack's in his corset,
Jane's in her vest ♪

622
00:29:27,995 --> 00:29:31,528
♪ I'm in a rock 'n' roll band ♪

623
00:29:31,595 --> 00:29:34,128
I sang the song "Sweet Jane"
and that was my thing.

624
00:29:34,395 --> 00:29:37,762
And somewhere in the middle
of "Sweet Jane," one night,

625
00:29:37,862 --> 00:29:41,496
I would get the audience
to sing the phrase "Sweet Jane,"

626
00:29:41,563 --> 00:29:42,563
I stopped the show.

627
00:29:48,963 --> 00:29:50,696
♪ Sweet Jane ♪

628
00:29:51,563 --> 00:29:53,963
Now is that easy or what?

629
00:29:54,063 --> 00:29:54,996
And I said, you know what?

630
00:29:55,096 --> 00:29:56,828
Why don't we get a couple
of people up on stage

631
00:29:56,829 --> 00:29:57,829
and sing along.

632
00:29:57,896 --> 00:30:00,896
And so we invited people
on stage to sing along.

633
00:30:00,996 --> 00:30:03,563
And we had a big gong behind us,
'cause in the "Gong Show,"

634
00:30:03,629 --> 00:30:05,429
they would gong you
if you sucked.

635
00:30:05,496 --> 00:30:06,996
So I'd have the person sing

636
00:30:07,096 --> 00:30:09,030
and then if they sucked,
my drummer would--

637
00:30:09,130 --> 00:30:11,764
the audience would basically
be like the Roman amphitheater.

638
00:30:11,864 --> 00:30:14,864
You know, "They suck."
And he'd gong them out.

639
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:17,597
And if they sang well,
they got a round of applause.

640
00:30:17,664 --> 00:30:19,797
And that lasted a couple
of weeks.

641
00:30:19,897 --> 00:30:21,930
But you know I needed more.

642
00:30:21,997 --> 00:30:24,097
So I said to the bartender,

643
00:30:24,164 --> 00:30:26,830
"Send up some shot glasses
and give me some booze

644
00:30:26,930 --> 00:30:29,430
and maybe we'll take a shot of
something and try it."

645
00:30:29,497 --> 00:30:31,430
What are you looking for,
a stoned person?

646
00:30:31,530 --> 00:30:33,464
I'm looking for a beer!

647
00:30:33,564 --> 00:30:36,865
So they sent a bottle of tequila
up or Wild Turkey or something

648
00:30:36,931 --> 00:30:39,831
and there was maybe
five or six girls and guys.

649
00:30:39,898 --> 00:30:41,898
And we'd give them a shot
and they'd sing "Sweet Jane"

650
00:30:41,965 --> 00:30:44,498
and then they would just get
more drunk and be stupider,

651
00:30:44,565 --> 00:30:45,865
and the reaction
would get bigger,

652
00:30:45,931 --> 00:30:47,098
and the crowd
started getting bigger.

653
00:30:47,765 --> 00:30:49,098
♪ Sweet Jane ♪

654
00:30:50,565 --> 00:30:52,065
♪ Sweet Jane ♪

655
00:30:53,098 --> 00:30:54,998
This is the big difference between us
and all these other bands.

656
00:30:55,065 --> 00:30:56,865
We're not playing music here.
We're bullshitting.

657
00:30:56,931 --> 00:30:59,098
We're telling jokes.
We're just getting people drunk

658
00:30:59,165 --> 00:31:01,098
and telling them
to sing "Sweet Jane!"

659
00:31:01,398 --> 00:31:03,798
And getting them laughed off
the stage and gonging them.

660
00:31:03,865 --> 00:31:05,599
And more alcohol,
and more alcohol comes in.

661
00:31:05,699 --> 00:31:07,999
And finally one night I think
we're six or seven shots in

662
00:31:08,066 --> 00:31:10,166
and some guys
throw up onstage,

663
00:31:10,466 --> 00:31:12,766
and he was this big fat guy--
they called him Buddha.

664
00:31:12,866 --> 00:31:16,132
And he throws up
in a waste paper basket

665
00:31:16,399 --> 00:31:17,832
and the place went crazy.

666
00:31:17,899 --> 00:31:19,466
"Buddha, Buddha."
And I'm thinking,

667
00:31:19,532 --> 00:31:21,632
Wow man...

668
00:31:21,699 --> 00:31:24,799
they're throwing up,
and they're loving it.

669
00:31:24,866 --> 00:31:26,699
This is... what a image!

670
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,932
So we'll do "The Drop Till
You Vomit Gong Show."

671
00:31:29,032 --> 00:31:31,999
No, it's "The Sweet Jane Drink
Till You Puke Gong Show."

672
00:31:32,099 --> 00:31:33,899
Right.
That's what it was.

673
00:31:33,966 --> 00:31:36,467
Yeah, believe it or not
there was a line of people

674
00:31:36,567 --> 00:31:38,667
that couldn't wait to drink
till they puked.

675
00:31:38,733 --> 00:31:42,533
I feel totally fucked
up right now!

676
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400
And that's fucking great!

677
00:31:45,467 --> 00:31:49,467
One guy actually turned
around and puked.

678
00:31:49,533 --> 00:31:52,467
And then turned around
and said,

679
00:31:52,533 --> 00:31:55,533
"Okay, I'm ready to go some more."

680
00:31:55,633 --> 00:31:57,033
It was nasty...

681
00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:58,867
unless you like vomit.

682
00:31:59,733 --> 00:32:02,667
♪ Some people like to go out
dancing, babies ♪

683
00:32:02,733 --> 00:32:04,968
♪ Well people like us,
we just gotta work ♪

684
00:32:05,034 --> 00:32:09,568
The last night we made
them drink...

685
00:32:09,668 --> 00:32:10,967
Well let me put it
to you this way...

686
00:32:10,968 --> 00:32:12,934
Do you know how
when you watch the hot dog

687
00:32:12,935 --> 00:32:16,101
eating contest on Coney Island,
the thin guy always wins?

688
00:32:16,168 --> 00:32:17,134
There's like some fat guy,

689
00:32:17,434 --> 00:32:20,501
but like some little Japanese
dude eats 1,000 hot dogs?

690
00:32:20,601 --> 00:32:22,134
Well, it came down
to Buddha

691
00:32:22,401 --> 00:32:24,534
and some really thin,
little dude,

692
00:32:24,634 --> 00:32:25,534
and they drank.

693
00:32:25,634 --> 00:32:28,534
And at some point in the night,
the bartender said,

694
00:32:28,634 --> 00:32:30,568
"I think you've given
them enough to die"--

695
00:32:30,668 --> 00:32:31,568
or something like--

696
00:32:31,668 --> 00:32:34,069
"I think you've given them
possibly a lethal..."

697
00:32:34,169 --> 00:32:35,935
I mean, have no idea!

698
00:32:36,035 --> 00:32:37,602
I hate this.
I don't drink!

699
00:32:37,702 --> 00:32:39,835
I don't know what's a lethal
amount of alcohol or not.

700
00:32:39,935 --> 00:32:41,135
But needless to say,

701
00:32:41,435 --> 00:32:43,835
the winner got a case of beer,
which is a joke.

702
00:32:43,935 --> 00:32:45,902
So the kid,
the thin kid wins

703
00:32:46,002 --> 00:32:48,402
and they handed him the case
and he just colla--

704
00:32:48,469 --> 00:32:50,402
He couldn't hold it.
He was so fucked up!

705
00:32:50,469 --> 00:32:51,502
If we tried it today,

706
00:32:51,602 --> 00:32:53,935
it's criminal-- I'm sure
we'd all end up in jail.

707
00:32:54,002 --> 00:32:56,802
Uh, they don't look kindly on
things like this anymore.

708
00:32:56,902 --> 00:32:59,569
But back in those days
it was just good, clean fun!

709
00:33:00,902 --> 00:33:03,536
Long Island, you're outrageous!
Thank you!

710
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:08,670
I mean crazy stuff
happened.

711
00:33:08,770 --> 00:33:10,936
And also humiliating stuff
happened.

712
00:33:11,003 --> 00:33:12,503
For example the World Series,

713
00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:15,803
when the Yankees played in '77,
we couldn't...

714
00:33:15,870 --> 00:33:17,103
people didn't want us to play.

715
00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:18,636
The game would be on television.

716
00:33:18,703 --> 00:33:20,636
They'd have a couple
of TV sets up there,

717
00:33:20,736 --> 00:33:22,736
and we'd go out onstage--
"Hey, shut up!

718
00:33:22,803 --> 00:33:24,770
We're watching
the fucking Yankee game!"

719
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:26,503
We walk offstage and go,
"Fuck, you know what?

720
00:33:26,603 --> 00:33:28,570
We're not gonna play until the
goddamn World Series is over!"

721
00:33:28,636 --> 00:33:30,436
So we'd show up on a...
we'd show up

722
00:33:30,504 --> 00:33:32,504
and just sit around
till the damn game is over.

723
00:33:32,604 --> 00:33:34,837
And that, by the way, wasn't
the only time that happened.

724
00:33:34,904 --> 00:33:36,071
You know, you're a bar band,

725
00:33:36,137 --> 00:33:37,771
you're just an adjunct
to the night.

726
00:33:37,837 --> 00:33:40,604
Maybe this is another reason
why we wanted to be loved

727
00:33:40,671 --> 00:33:42,804
and wanted to make something
of ourselves.

728
00:33:42,871 --> 00:33:44,137
Because we weren't just like,

729
00:33:44,437 --> 00:33:46,004
"Oh! Let's go to the bar!

730
00:33:46,104 --> 00:33:47,404
Oh, there's a band there."

731
00:33:47,471 --> 00:33:49,071
Yeah, and they're
just a fucking--

732
00:33:49,137 --> 00:33:51,904
they're just there to be--
to give us some background music

733
00:33:51,971 --> 00:33:54,471
while we figure out ways
to get high and get laid."

734
00:33:54,537 --> 00:33:55,871
And we're thinking,
"No, no, no!

735
00:33:55,971 --> 00:33:57,704
"We're a band!
We're more than that!

736
00:33:57,771 --> 00:33:58,871
"We're more
than just background music

737
00:33:58,937 --> 00:34:02,405
for you to get high and
get laid to! We're something!"

738
00:34:04,005 --> 00:34:05,772
Tonight we have
a little message for you,

739
00:34:05,872 --> 00:34:09,472
ladies and gentlemen.
Everybody read it?

740
00:34:09,538 --> 00:34:12,072
It says, "Disco Fucking Sucks,"
you hear what I'm saying?

741
00:34:12,172 --> 00:34:13,938
Now everybody,

742
00:34:14,038 --> 00:34:15,872
I want you on the count
of three to read the sign!

743
00:34:15,938 --> 00:34:17,538
Are you ready to go?

744
00:34:17,638 --> 00:34:21,572
One, two, three--
Disco Fuckin' Sucks!

745
00:34:21,638 --> 00:34:23,805
Class, one more time!

746
00:34:23,872 --> 00:34:26,538
When you're on stage
and doing schtick

747
00:34:26,605 --> 00:34:29,839
you're trying to kill
four hours a night, you know?

748
00:34:29,906 --> 00:34:31,973
It's a lot to do,
a lotta music to play

749
00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:33,473
and you're looking
for other things

750
00:34:33,573 --> 00:34:36,006
to sort of stretch it out.

751
00:34:36,073 --> 00:34:38,773
And "Disco Sucks" got a huge
response from the audience

752
00:34:38,839 --> 00:34:41,973
so it quickly became
a thing for us.

753
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:45,473
Dee or me said something
like "Disco sucks."

754
00:34:45,539 --> 00:34:47,106
Someone yelled out something.

755
00:34:47,406 --> 00:34:48,706
Maybe someone yelled out,

756
00:34:48,806 --> 00:34:50,606
"Yeah! Disco sucks!"

757
00:34:50,673 --> 00:34:52,939
Maybe. And we went,
"Yeah, Disco sucks..."

758
00:34:53,006 --> 00:34:57,974
I don't know. But the reaction
to those words was like whoo!

759
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,874
It was like you lit a fire,

760
00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:02,640
and all of a sudden we looked
at each other and went-- Bingo!

761
00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:03,774
Disco sucks!

762
00:35:03,874 --> 00:35:05,474
Disco sucks!

763
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:07,474
Disco sucks!

764
00:35:07,574 --> 00:35:10,840
They would go down
to the record store

765
00:35:10,907 --> 00:35:13,507
and pick up a bunch
of Disco singles.

766
00:35:13,607 --> 00:35:17,140
And they would spread them out
on the stage.

767
00:35:17,407 --> 00:35:20,940
And then Dee would get
a big sledgehammer

768
00:35:21,007 --> 00:35:23,540
and you know everybody
at the count of three--

769
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,174
"Disco sucks!" and he would
just take the sledgehammer

770
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,508
and bash the fucking shit out of
the fucking Disco records, ahh!

771
00:35:30,708 --> 00:35:31,641
Disco sucks!

772
00:35:31,708 --> 00:35:32,875
Disco sucks!

773
00:35:32,975 --> 00:35:35,508
And that was part
of the club touring gear

774
00:35:35,608 --> 00:35:36,541
was a sledgehammer.

775
00:35:36,608 --> 00:35:39,575
You know, amplifier,
guitars, sledgehammer.

776
00:35:39,641 --> 00:35:43,008
And uh, that's about as metal
as you can get, right?

777
00:35:43,075 --> 00:35:46,808
♪ Well, I hate Disco music ♪

778
00:35:46,908 --> 00:35:49,541
♪ 'Cause Disco music
really sucks ♪

779
00:35:49,641 --> 00:35:53,441
♪ Well, I hate Disco music ♪

780
00:35:53,541 --> 00:35:55,842
♪ 'Cause Disco really sucks ♪

781
00:35:55,942 --> 00:35:58,009
Everybody would be pumping
their arms in the air

782
00:35:58,109 --> 00:36:03,509
because you believed these guys
were gonna save rock 'n' roll

783
00:36:03,576 --> 00:36:06,442
and stamp out dirty Disco,
you know?

784
00:36:06,509 --> 00:36:08,642
It was-- it was a real fight!

785
00:36:08,742 --> 00:36:11,009
There were Disco people
and there were rock people.

786
00:36:11,076 --> 00:36:13,042
And it was, you know,
nobody met.

787
00:36:13,142 --> 00:36:14,742
This was not a racial issue

788
00:36:14,809 --> 00:36:16,509
because as far
as I was concerned,

789
00:36:16,576 --> 00:36:18,976
there were no African-Americans

790
00:36:19,042 --> 00:36:21,676
in any of these clubs
to see any of these bands.

791
00:36:21,776 --> 00:36:24,076
It was--
to me it seemed like

792
00:36:24,176 --> 00:36:27,543
a Brooklyn
John Travolta cliche

793
00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:32,010
versus guys wearing jeans
and t-shirts and sneakers.

794
00:36:32,110 --> 00:36:36,177
And we exploited
the sociological break.

795
00:36:36,443 --> 00:36:37,577
Boy did we exploit it.

796
00:36:37,643 --> 00:36:38,877
Louder!

797
00:36:38,977 --> 00:36:41,543
I hate Disco music...

798
00:36:41,610 --> 00:36:42,543
Why?!

799
00:36:42,610 --> 00:36:45,877
'Cause Disco really sucks!

800
00:36:45,943 --> 00:36:48,643
I said, the Village People
and Barry White,

801
00:36:48,743 --> 00:36:52,410
take a rocket to the moon
and stay out of my sight!

802
00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:55,878
♪ 'Cause I hate Disco music ♪

803
00:36:55,944 --> 00:36:58,611
♪ 'Cause Disco really sucks,
oh yeah... ♪

804
00:36:58,678 --> 00:37:02,611
We decided to hold
a trial of Barry White

805
00:37:02,678 --> 00:37:05,111
and find him guilty of destroying
American popular music.

806
00:37:05,411 --> 00:37:09,444
They had this big mannequin
dressed in a tuxedo,

807
00:37:09,544 --> 00:37:12,444
with a long,
curly black wig on

808
00:37:12,511 --> 00:37:14,044
and they would
bring it out and say,

809
00:37:14,144 --> 00:37:15,611
"Barry White
couldn't be here tonight

810
00:37:15,711 --> 00:37:17,778
so we're just gonna have
to hang him in effigy."

811
00:37:17,878 --> 00:37:22,044
They would hang him,
and then beat him like a piñata.

812
00:37:22,144 --> 00:37:23,412
With a big bat.

813
00:37:23,512 --> 00:37:25,912
And the crowd would go wild
and "Kill him, kill him!"

814
00:37:26,012 --> 00:37:26,979
They would chant,
you know.

815
00:37:27,045 --> 00:37:28,612
And so we're off stage
thinking,

816
00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:30,945
"Yeah, that went
over pretty well." You know?

817
00:37:31,012 --> 00:37:33,979
Well, let me tell
you something.

818
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:35,479
We did it for a while

819
00:37:35,545 --> 00:37:37,745
until we did it one time
in some rural town

820
00:37:37,845 --> 00:37:42,512
in upstate New York--
Lake Carmel, the Rock Palace.

821
00:37:42,579 --> 00:37:46,679
And we did our hanging
of Barry White

822
00:37:46,745 --> 00:37:48,579
and the crowd went nuts,
loved it.

823
00:37:48,645 --> 00:37:51,145
I think we even pulled down the body
and started ripping it apart.

824
00:37:51,446 --> 00:37:52,846
I mean we would really
just get into it.

825
00:37:52,913 --> 00:37:57,413
And after the show this real
redneck club owner said to us,

826
00:37:57,513 --> 00:37:58,846
"I don't know about
Barry White,

827
00:37:58,913 --> 00:38:00,546
but you hang
a nigger in this town,

828
00:38:00,646 --> 00:38:02,080
you're okay in my book."

829
00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:04,680
You know I'm like,
"What?!"

830
00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:06,946
He said, "You hung a nigger.
You can't go wrong!"

831
00:38:07,013 --> 00:38:08,713
It was like, "Holy shit!"

832
00:38:08,813 --> 00:38:11,446
You know like we--
Long Island,

833
00:38:11,546 --> 00:38:14,480
not a prejudice bone in our
bodies, it was anything--

834
00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:17,080
so distant from our minds.

835
00:38:17,146 --> 00:38:21,414
On some level I can laugh
about it and it's absurdity.

836
00:38:21,481 --> 00:38:24,814
On the other hand
I'm disgusted by it

837
00:38:24,881 --> 00:38:28,114
and uh the fact that I could
have been part of anything

838
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:32,547
that would have elicited
that response by anybody,

839
00:38:32,647 --> 00:38:34,614
the fact that I would carry
that negative energy on anyone,

840
00:38:34,681 --> 00:38:37,447
really-- you know,
makes me sick.

841
00:38:37,547 --> 00:38:39,914
And we stopped it immediately
and moved on.

842
00:38:39,981 --> 00:38:41,747
And our antidote to that was

843
00:38:41,814 --> 00:38:44,981
to build an electric chair
and fry Andrea True.

844
00:38:49,448 --> 00:38:52,882
It must have been about two months
into our relationship,

845
00:38:52,982 --> 00:38:56,548
and I was wearing a shirt
that Dee was blown away by.

846
00:38:56,615 --> 00:38:57,715
And all he kept saying to me

847
00:38:57,782 --> 00:39:01,582
was how beautiful I looked
and how beautiful the shirt was,

848
00:39:01,648 --> 00:39:05,848
and where I got it,
and just how amazing I looked.

849
00:39:05,915 --> 00:39:07,947
So about two weeks later
I decided

850
00:39:07,948 --> 00:39:09,481
that I was going to go see him

851
00:39:09,482 --> 00:39:11,648
and I was gonna wear this shirt
that blew him away.

852
00:39:11,715 --> 00:39:14,948
And I'll never forget
pulling up to the bar.

853
00:39:15,048 --> 00:39:17,515
And Dee is onstage,

854
00:39:17,582 --> 00:39:21,549
and he is wearing
the same shirt I am wearing!

855
00:39:21,616 --> 00:39:22,683
I was horrified.

856
00:39:22,749 --> 00:39:25,116
I mean,
the worst thing you can imagine,

857
00:39:25,416 --> 00:39:27,916
you go someplace and somebody else
is wearing what you're wearing.

858
00:39:28,016 --> 00:39:29,583
Yet your boyfriend?

859
00:39:29,649 --> 00:39:32,883
So I said, "That's it.
I'll start making him clothes.

860
00:39:32,983 --> 00:39:35,083
And this is not gonna

861
00:39:35,183 --> 00:39:36,716
be a situation that I'm
gonna be in again,

862
00:39:36,783 --> 00:39:37,983
because my boyfriend cannot

863
00:39:38,049 --> 00:39:39,783
be wearing the same clothes
I'm wearing!"

864
00:39:39,849 --> 00:39:42,149
Suzette was making shit for me,
costumes.

865
00:39:42,416 --> 00:39:43,783
I would wear anything she made,

866
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:46,416
and she made some
ridiculous outfits for me.

867
00:39:46,516 --> 00:39:48,417
The guys used to be embarrassed.

868
00:39:48,484 --> 00:39:50,917
Eddie would say,
"How can you wear that onstage?

869
00:39:50,984 --> 00:39:52,717
Your whole johnson
is hanging out."

870
00:39:52,817 --> 00:39:56,750
I was just like Suzette made it,
I'm wearing it.

871
00:39:56,850 --> 00:39:57,984
Early on there,

872
00:39:58,084 --> 00:40:01,450
people were starting
to call me Twisted Sister,

873
00:40:01,517 --> 00:40:06,184
because I was the one dressing
up, and the band was not.

874
00:40:06,484 --> 00:40:08,417
I knew that didn't sit well
with the band.

875
00:40:08,517 --> 00:40:11,550
Jay Jay came to me
and Jay Jay confronted me

876
00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:14,984
and asked me
if I would start basically

877
00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:17,551
making everyone's costumes
in the band.

878
00:40:17,651 --> 00:40:19,451
And I said absolutely.

879
00:40:19,551 --> 00:40:23,418
And the whole band started
getting onboard one by one.

880
00:40:23,485 --> 00:40:26,451
And slowly I started
teaching everybody in the band

881
00:40:26,551 --> 00:40:27,751
how to do makeup,
and started doing

882
00:40:27,851 --> 00:40:30,618
everybody's hair--
everybody's clothes.

883
00:40:30,718 --> 00:40:36,651
Twisted Sister was designed
to overwhelm an audience.

884
00:40:36,751 --> 00:40:39,485
You know, other bands were
just going out with music.

885
00:40:39,551 --> 00:40:41,118
Well, we had music, too.

886
00:40:41,185 --> 00:40:43,618
But what could we do
that was past the music?

887
00:40:43,685 --> 00:40:47,052
Well, the glam thing
afforded us the costumes

888
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:50,186
and then the make-up,
and then if there was staging,

889
00:40:50,452 --> 00:40:51,886
or any other implementation
we could do--

890
00:40:51,952 --> 00:40:55,019
anything
we could bring to the table

891
00:40:55,086 --> 00:40:58,686
to throw more weight
in our direction.

892
00:40:58,752 --> 00:40:59,919
We did it.

893
00:40:59,986 --> 00:41:03,119
So when other bands
would go up against us

894
00:41:03,186 --> 00:41:05,886
if you're coming in,
you know, and you've got a bat,

895
00:41:05,986 --> 00:41:09,619
and the other guy's got a bat
and a gun and a knife,

896
00:41:09,686 --> 00:41:10,852
you're gonna lose.

897
00:41:10,919 --> 00:41:12,619
So whatever they could do,

898
00:41:12,686 --> 00:41:14,720
we would always just figure out
how to outdo that.

899
00:41:14,787 --> 00:41:16,787
I don't know how much
of a musical band we are,

900
00:41:16,887 --> 00:41:18,853
as much as we're
a predatory band.

901
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,087
Which is,
put this fish in the water

902
00:41:22,187 --> 00:41:23,987
and give this fish a target,

903
00:41:24,087 --> 00:41:26,687
and say this fish
must kill that fish,

904
00:41:26,753 --> 00:41:30,453
and this fish will go out
there and kill that fish.

905
00:41:30,553 --> 00:41:34,587
And I don't care
how insensitive that sounds,

906
00:41:34,687 --> 00:41:37,687
I don't care how, uh...

907
00:41:37,753 --> 00:41:41,487
infantile that sounds,
that's the way of this band.

908
00:41:41,553 --> 00:41:42,953
We're very predatory.

909
00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:46,021
And in the bars,
it was kill or be killed.

910
00:41:46,088 --> 00:41:50,421
Zebra was rumored to be this
killer band from New Orleans,

911
00:41:50,521 --> 00:41:53,554
who were just,
you know, dragon slayers.

912
00:41:53,654 --> 00:41:57,121
I remember the first day
I saw Twisted, you know,

913
00:41:57,421 --> 00:42:00,688
I'd heard about them
but I hadn't met them.

914
00:42:00,754 --> 00:42:03,721
And I'm expecting
these crazy guys to come in

915
00:42:03,821 --> 00:42:05,588
and you know they just came
in in their jeans

916
00:42:05,688 --> 00:42:06,654
and regular clothes.

917
00:42:06,721 --> 00:42:09,454
Maybe a little leather
or something.

918
00:42:09,521 --> 00:42:11,188
But they were just dressed
normal you know.

919
00:42:11,454 --> 00:42:12,922
And I said,
"Oh this is no big deal."

920
00:42:13,022 --> 00:42:16,955
So I remember that night the band
really stepping up their game,

921
00:42:17,022 --> 00:42:20,955
and everybody dressing
and everybody putting makeup on.

922
00:42:21,022 --> 00:42:24,655
That night we're down
in our dressing room

923
00:42:24,722 --> 00:42:26,889
and I see Dee walk out
of the dressing room.

924
00:42:26,955 --> 00:42:29,955
And I don't really know
what it was he was wearing,

925
00:42:30,022 --> 00:42:33,822
but in my mind it looked
like a pink neglige.

926
00:42:33,922 --> 00:42:35,089
Poor Zebra,

927
00:42:35,189 --> 00:42:37,822
they were just sort of
a prog band out of New Orleans

928
00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:40,922
wearing jeans and t-shirts
and very talented band,

929
00:42:40,989 --> 00:42:43,723
but we just came out
loaded for bear.

930
00:42:43,823 --> 00:42:46,456
And we just destroyed them.

931
00:43:08,623 --> 00:43:10,857
It was really crazy,

932
00:43:10,957 --> 00:43:14,024
I mean these Southern boys
were getting a real dose.

933
00:43:20,424 --> 00:43:24,424
People would come to shows to watch
me and Dee do this tandem ripping,

934
00:43:24,491 --> 00:43:25,791
but what this ripping is doing
is two things--

935
00:43:25,891 --> 00:43:28,924
it's not just ripping
a person or a band,

936
00:43:28,991 --> 00:43:31,191
it's to create an atmosphere
that we are the kings.

937
00:43:31,457 --> 00:43:34,057
This is our world,
we own this world.

938
00:43:34,157 --> 00:43:35,924
We're the number one band
in this world.

939
00:43:35,991 --> 00:43:39,191
So we set out to destroy the Rat Race
Choirs and the Good Rats

940
00:43:39,458 --> 00:43:41,458
and the Zebras and anybody else
you threw in our path.

941
00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:43,158
You know, tell us a band
that's more popular than us,

942
00:43:43,425 --> 00:43:45,158
we're gonna go out,
we're gonna swim out there,

943
00:43:45,458 --> 00:43:46,192
we're gonna eat them.

944
00:43:46,458 --> 00:43:48,592
Dee may have gotten up
every morning with the desire

945
00:43:48,692 --> 00:43:50,825
to blow me away
or to make me eat shit

946
00:43:50,892 --> 00:43:52,992
or to prove how great
he was-- fine.

947
00:43:53,092 --> 00:43:54,525
I got up every morning thinking

948
00:43:54,625 --> 00:43:56,892
how am I gonna make more
money by blowing away

949
00:43:56,992 --> 00:43:58,492
this band or that band-- fine.

950
00:43:58,558 --> 00:44:01,825
We all had our own
little mini-targets.

951
00:44:05,192 --> 00:44:07,592
Sister was definitely
the type of band

952
00:44:07,658 --> 00:44:10,159
where you would have to be
prepared to throw down with--

953
00:44:10,426 --> 00:44:11,826
when you were talking
with certain people

954
00:44:11,926 --> 00:44:14,126
about bands and music,

955
00:44:14,426 --> 00:44:16,693
because there was really
no middle ground with them.

956
00:44:16,759 --> 00:44:19,993
People either really liked them
or really hated them.

957
00:44:20,093 --> 00:44:22,559
I brought a few people
to see them with me

958
00:44:22,626 --> 00:44:24,426
and they basically went
one or two times

959
00:44:24,493 --> 00:44:25,726
and it wasn't for them.

960
00:44:25,826 --> 00:44:28,026
Some of my friends
liked the band.

961
00:44:28,126 --> 00:44:30,893
Some of my friends did not
like the band.

962
00:44:30,993 --> 00:44:33,126
Some of my friends really
hated the band.

963
00:44:33,193 --> 00:44:37,794
This one friend kind of decided
that he thought I was really

964
00:44:37,894 --> 00:44:39,160
sort of losing my mind,

965
00:44:39,427 --> 00:44:41,194
like literally losing my mind
for the fact

966
00:44:41,494 --> 00:44:44,894
that I would go three or four
nights in a row and he--

967
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,094
we got in this big argument
one day in front of my house.

968
00:44:48,194 --> 00:44:51,427
And we literally got
in a fistfight.

969
00:44:51,527 --> 00:44:53,760
Like I beat him up.

970
00:44:53,860 --> 00:44:56,060
People thought like what
are you a fag or something?

971
00:44:56,127 --> 00:45:00,560
You follow around a bunch of guys
wearing makeup and women's clothes?

972
00:45:00,627 --> 00:45:04,027
I said basically fuc-- go see
'em and judge for yourself.

973
00:45:04,127 --> 00:45:06,495
I was very passionate
about what I was doing.

974
00:45:06,561 --> 00:45:08,528
No one shared that passion...

975
00:45:08,595 --> 00:45:10,695
with me and so be it.

976
00:45:10,795 --> 00:45:12,728
I didn't ask anybody to.

977
00:45:12,795 --> 00:45:15,661
What I was trying tell them is that
you don't know what you're missing.

978
00:45:17,061 --> 00:45:22,061
From February '76 to August '78
there was no time off.

979
00:45:22,128 --> 00:45:23,428
Five or six days a week,

980
00:45:23,528 --> 00:45:26,995
every week, perfectly played,
every show.

981
00:45:27,995 --> 00:45:30,128
We started playing a place
called Speaks,

982
00:45:30,428 --> 00:45:33,761
which held, I think,
over 2,000 people.

983
00:45:33,828 --> 00:45:36,129
And they would be like
shoulder to shoulder,

984
00:45:36,196 --> 00:45:38,662
I mean absolutely jam packed,

985
00:45:38,762 --> 00:45:41,929
and people outside waiting
to get in to see the band.

986
00:45:42,029 --> 00:45:44,796
It was really pretty exciting.

987
00:45:44,896 --> 00:45:46,829
During this time,

988
00:45:46,929 --> 00:45:50,129
my drinking had gotten,
like, worse and worse.

989
00:45:50,429 --> 00:45:52,562
I would wake up
at 2:00 in the afternoon.

990
00:45:52,629 --> 00:45:56,129
But by 4:00 in the afternoon
I'd be starting to drink already.

991
00:45:56,429 --> 00:45:58,996
A lot of times it was
kind of like hanging on,

992
00:45:59,062 --> 00:46:00,729
what they call
white-knuckling it.

993
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:14,663
By the time I had graduated
high school

994
00:46:14,763 --> 00:46:16,630
I was playing
nightclubs in bands.

995
00:46:16,697 --> 00:46:18,730
Doing all copy music
at the time.

996
00:46:18,797 --> 00:46:21,763
One day a drummer by the name
of Fred Enoch said to me,

997
00:46:21,830 --> 00:46:24,097
he goes, "I got you an audition
with a band

998
00:46:24,197 --> 00:46:25,963
"that's touring the world and
making albums and everything."

999
00:46:26,063 --> 00:46:27,430
"Okay, what is it?"

1000
00:46:27,530 --> 00:46:28,830
And he goes,
"It's called The Dictators."

1001
00:46:28,897 --> 00:46:30,430
Who?

1002
00:46:30,497 --> 00:46:31,797
"The Dictators."

1003
00:46:31,863 --> 00:46:33,464
Never heard of them.

1004
00:46:33,564 --> 00:46:36,798
He got me the album,
and I looked at the cover

1005
00:46:36,864 --> 00:46:37,898
and I was horrified.

1006
00:46:37,998 --> 00:46:40,631
I couldn't believe
that somebody would have a guy

1007
00:46:40,731 --> 00:46:42,564
as a singer who can't sing.

1008
00:46:42,631 --> 00:46:44,498
It was more
like a special effect.

1009
00:46:44,564 --> 00:46:46,864
However I knew nothing
of punk rock at the time.

1010
00:46:46,931 --> 00:46:49,198
I didn't know any of that
existed in the city,

1011
00:46:49,464 --> 00:46:51,131
I never went to New York

1012
00:46:51,198 --> 00:46:52,964
to have anything to do
with the music scene there.

1013
00:46:53,064 --> 00:46:55,198
To make a long story short,

1014
00:46:55,464 --> 00:46:59,698
I spent about 2 1/2 years in
The Dictators and had enough.

1015
00:46:59,764 --> 00:47:00,831
I left the band.

1016
00:47:00,898 --> 00:47:03,565
And I had become good friends
with the guys in Twisted Sister.

1017
00:47:03,632 --> 00:47:07,732
So they said that they were
doing this big summertime club tour.

1018
00:47:07,832 --> 00:47:12,098
They would be very busy and
they needed help on the crew.

1019
00:47:12,099 --> 00:47:14,198
I said, "Well I'm out of a band
and I'm out of work.

1020
00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:15,432
I'll do it, why not?"

1021
00:47:15,499 --> 00:47:18,599
The summer of '78 was our big--

1022
00:47:18,665 --> 00:47:21,032
first really big
statement summer,

1023
00:47:21,099 --> 00:47:22,999
that we were a band
to be reckoned with.

1024
00:47:23,065 --> 00:47:24,632
We were the house band
at Speaks.

1025
00:47:24,699 --> 00:47:26,532
We were the house band
in the Hamptons.

1026
00:47:26,632 --> 00:47:28,432
It was really important.

1027
00:47:28,532 --> 00:47:30,699
We took out a big calendar
in the paper--

1028
00:47:30,765 --> 00:47:33,433
the Summer Of '78 Tour,
we called it.

1029
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:35,433
We were able
to book it way in advance.

1030
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:36,966
And the target was,

1031
00:47:37,066 --> 00:47:38,866
that we would play
the Calderone,

1032
00:47:38,933 --> 00:47:42,033
the theater in Hempstead,
Halloween.

1033
00:47:42,133 --> 00:47:44,700
I operated a theater
on Long Island called

1034
00:47:44,766 --> 00:47:46,100
the Calderone Concert Hall.

1035
00:47:46,166 --> 00:47:48,066
It was one
of the venues we worked in.

1036
00:47:48,166 --> 00:47:50,166
I met the band.

1037
00:47:50,433 --> 00:47:52,633
We had to discuss staging,
lighting, sound.

1038
00:47:52,733 --> 00:47:55,166
They hadn't played
on a theater stage before.

1039
00:47:55,433 --> 00:47:58,133
Um, I worked closely
with Jay Jay at the time

1040
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,201
in making all the preparations.

1041
00:48:00,467 --> 00:48:02,867
Jay Jay wanted to use it
as a showcase

1042
00:48:02,934 --> 00:48:05,867
to try and bring
some record company people out.

1043
00:48:08,701 --> 00:48:11,101
The idea of the Calderone
was a statement.

1044
00:48:11,201 --> 00:48:13,634
It was gonna be original music,
and we were gonna

1045
00:48:13,734 --> 00:48:14,967
show that we could sell out
a theater.

1046
00:48:15,034 --> 00:48:17,834
We had no record deal.
This was important.

1047
00:48:19,134 --> 00:48:22,634
We had a huge line of amps
to make a statement

1048
00:48:22,701 --> 00:48:25,067
that Twisted Sister
was to be reckoned with,

1049
00:48:25,167 --> 00:48:26,967
with Black Sabbath
and anybody else

1050
00:48:27,034 --> 00:48:28,867
'cause we are bringing
the artillery.

1051
00:48:28,934 --> 00:48:30,435
We wanted
to fit every square inch--

1052
00:48:30,535 --> 00:48:32,768
and by the way-- most of it
was plugged in.

1053
00:48:32,835 --> 00:48:34,202
♪ Well, I feel like jumpin' ♪

1054
00:48:34,502 --> 00:48:37,102
♪ And walk right through
that door ♪

1055
00:48:38,702 --> 00:48:40,168
♪ You can't stop shakin' ♪

1056
00:48:40,435 --> 00:48:42,968
♪ Goin' to feet keep
stompin' the floor ♪

1057
00:48:43,035 --> 00:48:45,502
The show itself sold out.

1058
00:48:45,602 --> 00:48:52,135
We performed that night and it
was an eye-opening experience.

1059
00:48:52,435 --> 00:48:56,035
You know,
I remember coming off the stage

1060
00:48:56,135 --> 00:48:58,869
winded and exhausted,
literally having running.

1061
00:48:58,936 --> 00:49:00,203
Those pains like you get
from running.

1062
00:49:00,503 --> 00:49:01,503
And I couldn't understand it.

1063
00:49:01,603 --> 00:49:02,903
I never had
that experience before.

1064
00:49:02,969 --> 00:49:05,969
As it turned out we'd been
on stage for over 2 1/2 hours,

1065
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:07,569
which was insane!

1066
00:49:07,669 --> 00:49:08,803
But we had no concept.

1067
00:49:08,903 --> 00:49:10,436
We just put every song we knew

1068
00:49:10,536 --> 00:49:12,203
on a piece of paper and just played them.

1069
00:49:12,469 --> 00:49:15,169
At the time I had done
Aerosmith at Madison Square Garden

1070
00:49:15,436 --> 00:49:20,736
Black Sabbath, Kiss--
many great performance bands.

1071
00:49:20,836 --> 00:49:26,003
And what I saw going on on that
stage with that audience,

1072
00:49:26,103 --> 00:49:30,737
was something that I could
maybe have seen five times ever.

1073
00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:35,170
So the Calderone show comes off

1074
00:49:35,437 --> 00:49:39,070
and the phone rings
the next day.

1075
00:49:39,170 --> 00:49:40,804
And it's Kenny.

1076
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:42,204
And he says
are you sitting down?

1077
00:49:42,504 --> 00:49:43,937
And I said...

1078
00:49:44,004 --> 00:49:45,570
"Why?" I thought he was going
to tell me

1079
00:49:45,637 --> 00:49:46,970
he was marrying his girlfriend,
Carol.

1080
00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:47,970
And he said,

1081
00:49:48,070 --> 00:49:51,470
"Well I gotta let you know
that I have to leave the band."

1082
00:49:51,570 --> 00:49:53,604
And I said,
"What are you talking about?"

1083
00:49:57,138 --> 00:50:00,071
So I finally decided
to try one of these

1084
00:50:00,171 --> 00:50:01,938
popular recovery programs.

1085
00:50:02,038 --> 00:50:06,771
And I started to get my brains
back and started to, uh...

1086
00:50:06,838 --> 00:50:09,438
become... sober.

1087
00:50:11,538 --> 00:50:13,071
It's also like a
spiritual program.

1088
00:50:13,171 --> 00:50:14,905
So I started to think

1089
00:50:14,971 --> 00:50:17,638
maybe there is something
more out there.

1090
00:50:17,705 --> 00:50:19,105
So I had some friends of mine

1091
00:50:19,205 --> 00:50:22,638
who were in the program, like in
my same age group and all that,

1092
00:50:22,705 --> 00:50:24,671
who had become believers.

1093
00:50:26,972 --> 00:50:29,972
Kenny, as many, you know,

1094
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:34,039
reformed alcoholics,
they become born again.

1095
00:50:34,139 --> 00:50:35,872
And after several months

1096
00:50:35,939 --> 00:50:37,972
I felt like I was
leading a double life.

1097
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:40,072
'Cause I had this thing
over here,

1098
00:50:40,172 --> 00:50:44,006
with my new Christian friends,
plus I had like the band.

1099
00:50:44,072 --> 00:50:46,539
And I started to really think

1100
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:48,939
that maybe it was
time to move on.

1101
00:50:51,606 --> 00:50:53,439
And I remember one
night in Zaffy's

1102
00:50:53,506 --> 00:50:58,473
Kenny brought down
The Dais, his church,

1103
00:50:58,573 --> 00:51:00,673
about a half-dozen
people came in,

1104
00:51:00,740 --> 00:51:02,473
watched the band,

1105
00:51:02,540 --> 00:51:06,807
and he wanted their verdict
on if being in Twisted Sister

1106
00:51:06,873 --> 00:51:09,173
conflicted with him
being a Christian.

1107
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,607
And they said that,

1108
00:51:11,673 --> 00:51:17,007
Satan spoke through some of
my songs and Jay Jay's mouth.

1109
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,540
And, yes,
it was a direct conflict

1110
00:51:22,607 --> 00:51:23,774
and that he should leave.

1111
00:51:26,108 --> 00:51:28,674
And, mind you, we're still
very much on course--

1112
00:51:28,741 --> 00:51:30,774
we are going
to the mountain top.

1113
00:51:30,841 --> 00:51:32,174
Wait a minute!

1114
00:51:32,474 --> 00:51:34,474
You're leaving the band
and you're telling me

1115
00:51:34,541 --> 00:51:35,608
you're leaving us
because they told you

1116
00:51:35,674 --> 00:51:37,741
the Devil speaks through me
and Dee? Let me get this clear.

1117
00:51:37,841 --> 00:51:39,941
Dee and I don't drink.
Dee and I don't smoke.

1118
00:51:40,008 --> 00:51:42,108
Dee and I don't do
any drugs whatsoever.

1119
00:51:42,174 --> 00:51:43,474
You're the alcoholic,

1120
00:51:43,541 --> 00:51:45,041
but the Devil speaks
through me and Dee.

1121
00:51:45,108 --> 00:51:46,074
Is that what you're saying?

1122
00:51:46,174 --> 00:51:48,041
I wanna really get
this straight.

1123
00:51:48,108 --> 00:51:49,941
"Well I know it kinda
sounds weird..."

1124
00:51:50,041 --> 00:51:52,742
Yeah! It does
sound weird, Kenny!

1125
00:51:52,809 --> 00:51:54,842
I don't get fucked up.

1126
00:51:54,942 --> 00:51:56,108
I have no idea
what you're talking about.

1127
00:51:56,109 --> 00:51:56,841
I'm a performer.

1128
00:51:56,842 --> 00:51:58,141
I go out there
and I do a schtick.

1129
00:51:58,142 --> 00:52:00,142
I do a show-- whatever.

1130
00:52:00,442 --> 00:52:02,209
So I try to talk him
out of it.

1131
00:52:02,475 --> 00:52:04,709
And I'm kind of making inroads
in keeping him.

1132
00:52:06,742 --> 00:52:10,709
So one day at Speaks,
my drummer, Tony, comes in,

1133
00:52:10,775 --> 00:52:13,875
and he's got a bandage on his
arm, and I go, "What's that?"

1134
00:52:13,942 --> 00:52:16,575
And he goes,
"It's my new tattoo."

1135
00:52:16,642 --> 00:52:17,942
And I go, "What is it?"

1136
00:52:18,042 --> 00:52:20,442
and he pulls aside and it's
like the demon or something.

1137
00:52:20,509 --> 00:52:22,810
And I'm like,
"Oh great, how cliched is this?"

1138
00:52:22,910 --> 00:52:25,810
And then he goes,
"You know Mike Bruno, he did it.

1139
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:27,810
Mike, why don't you show
the band your tattoo?"

1140
00:52:27,876 --> 00:52:30,710
And Bruno takes off his shirt
and his entire back is the Demon.

1141
00:52:30,776 --> 00:52:33,643
And I'm looking at Kenny going,
"You win.

1142
00:52:33,710 --> 00:52:37,776
I guess there's
Devil worshiping."

1143
00:52:37,843 --> 00:52:38,976
Fine. You know?

1144
00:52:39,043 --> 00:52:40,776
That was kinda like
what are you gonna say?

1145
00:52:49,610 --> 00:52:50,877
Right before Thanksgiving,

1146
00:52:50,944 --> 00:52:53,677
we had done
a Saturday night show someplace

1147
00:52:53,777 --> 00:52:56,711
and we were all home.
And the phone rings in my house,

1148
00:52:56,811 --> 00:52:57,877
and I'm just
about falling asleep.

1149
00:52:57,944 --> 00:53:00,477
It's about 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning,
on a Sunday morning.

1150
00:53:00,544 --> 00:53:03,677
And I wake up
and it's Jay Jay French.

1151
00:53:03,744 --> 00:53:05,610
And he says to me, "Are you
still looking for a band?"

1152
00:53:05,611 --> 00:53:06,711
And I said, "Yes, of course."

1153
00:53:06,811 --> 00:53:08,844
I said, "You know it's fun
working with you guys

1154
00:53:08,944 --> 00:53:10,111
but I'd rather be a musician."

1155
00:53:10,177 --> 00:53:12,077
And he goes,
"Well, I have a band for you."

1156
00:53:12,144 --> 00:53:14,777
I said, "Okay, who is it?"
And he goes, "Twisted Sister."

1157
00:53:14,877 --> 00:53:16,611
And I said, "You know,
don't play with me like that."

1158
00:53:16,711 --> 00:53:17,810
And he goes,
"No, no I'm serious.

1159
00:53:17,811 --> 00:53:21,444
Kenny quit, and we need
a bass player. Do you want it?"

1160
00:53:21,445 --> 00:53:23,177
And I said, "Yeah, I'll
take it," just like that.

1161
00:53:23,178 --> 00:53:26,045
He says, "Okay, talk to you
later." Click. And he hangs up.

1162
00:53:26,112 --> 00:53:30,678
Mark was very much like me.

1163
00:53:30,778 --> 00:53:33,778
We're closer in age.
He's a year younger than me.

1164
00:53:33,845 --> 00:53:35,745
We're both from suburban
Long Island.

1165
00:53:35,812 --> 00:53:38,912
We lived only a couple of
towns away from each other.

1166
00:53:38,978 --> 00:53:44,845
We grew up with the same
suburban car guy, bike guy.

1167
00:53:44,912 --> 00:53:48,012
Musically we were connected
to the same things.

1168
00:53:48,113 --> 00:53:49,913
Finally there was
someone in the band

1169
00:53:50,013 --> 00:53:52,213
who was my partner in crime.

1170
00:53:52,479 --> 00:53:55,513
I have to tell you,
when Mark came onboard,

1171
00:53:55,579 --> 00:53:57,979
that just completed
the Dee metamorphosis.

1172
00:53:58,046 --> 00:54:01,646
What Kenny couldn't do,
is what Mark ultimately did.

1173
00:54:01,713 --> 00:54:04,646
Dee's music was heavy
but Kenny was finessing it.

1174
00:54:04,713 --> 00:54:07,679
Mark was just like
strapping it on to a 747

1175
00:54:07,779 --> 00:54:08,946
and ramming it
through a terminal.

1176
00:54:23,947 --> 00:54:27,014
♪ So many times you move me ♪

1177
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,114
♪ When I know you really care ♪

1178
00:54:30,180 --> 00:54:33,647
♪ When I'm with you things
are alright ♪

1179
00:54:33,747 --> 00:54:36,147
♪ I know that you'll be there ♪

1180
00:54:36,214 --> 00:54:39,614
♪ But I can't let you
walk out that door ♪

1181
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,680
♪ I can't let you
just say goodbye ♪

1182
00:54:43,747 --> 00:54:46,681
♪ And I can't let you
walk out that door ♪

1183
00:54:46,748 --> 00:54:50,515
♪ I can't let you,
you know I cry, I cry... ♪

1184
00:54:50,581 --> 00:54:52,815
I had been now managing
the band, uh,

1185
00:54:52,881 --> 00:54:56,948
alone since we reformed in '75.

1186
00:54:57,015 --> 00:54:59,948
And I found that
the daily grind

1187
00:55:00,015 --> 00:55:02,148
of playing and managing
became next to impossible.

1188
00:55:02,215 --> 00:55:05,515
He wasn't sleeping at all and
he was-- it was so exhausting,

1189
00:55:05,615 --> 00:55:07,615
he nearly had
a physical breakdown.

1190
00:55:07,681 --> 00:55:10,815
So I said, "Do you want me
to help you to find a manager?"

1191
00:55:10,915 --> 00:55:12,215
And he said,
"That would be great."

1192
00:55:12,481 --> 00:55:14,215
I started getting in touch
with people

1193
00:55:14,481 --> 00:55:15,716
and telling them
about this band,

1194
00:55:15,816 --> 00:55:19,649
people who I thought
had the management capability.

1195
00:55:19,716 --> 00:55:22,982
And one by one
they just said, "No."

1196
00:55:23,082 --> 00:55:26,149
And Jay said to me one day,
"Well, why don't you do it?"

1197
00:55:26,449 --> 00:55:28,649
I said, "Well, I'm not
a manager. I'm a promoter."

1198
00:55:28,749 --> 00:55:32,582
And he said, "Well, you've done
more for us than anyone else has.

1199
00:55:32,649 --> 00:55:35,749
We'll take the shot
if you will."

1200
00:55:35,816 --> 00:55:39,082
So I gave it some thought and, uh,
went into the management business.

1201
00:55:42,082 --> 00:55:43,849
We never played in Manhattan...

1202
00:55:43,949 --> 00:55:45,183
for a variety of reasons.

1203
00:55:45,450 --> 00:55:50,917
The clubs in Manhattan
were small and they didn't pay.

1204
00:55:50,983 --> 00:55:53,717
They thought they were
doing the bands a favor

1205
00:55:53,783 --> 00:55:54,983
to allow you to play there.

1206
00:55:55,083 --> 00:55:57,083
And we thought...

1207
00:55:57,150 --> 00:55:58,617
we were too good for them.

1208
00:55:58,717 --> 00:56:01,783
You know, we're not going
to play for nothing in a hole.

1209
00:56:01,883 --> 00:56:03,650
If you look at the map,
I mean, we're like what?

1210
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:05,517
We're 20 miles away from CBGBs?

1211
00:56:05,617 --> 00:56:07,583
We may as well have been
1,000 miles away, right?

1212
00:56:07,650 --> 00:56:09,083
There was no cross.

1213
00:56:09,183 --> 00:56:11,517
Occasionally our fans
would saunter into the city

1214
00:56:11,617 --> 00:56:14,718
and come back with word
from the front.

1215
00:56:14,784 --> 00:56:16,818
Like, "Oh yeah,
we were at the Mudd Club

1216
00:56:16,884 --> 00:56:18,851
"or we saw
this band the other night

1217
00:56:18,951 --> 00:56:20,884
and we saw the Ramones
or whatever."

1218
00:56:20,951 --> 00:56:23,784
I'd go, "Yeah, how many people
did they pack into that place?"

1219
00:56:23,851 --> 00:56:26,618
In getting to know them
in the management sphere,

1220
00:56:26,718 --> 00:56:30,084
I would go out to see the shows
and I would realize

1221
00:56:30,151 --> 00:56:32,451
that Long Island was
sold-out engagements,

1222
00:56:32,518 --> 00:56:35,618
2,000 people, 500 people in line
who couldn't get in.

1223
00:56:35,718 --> 00:56:38,018
The same in New Jersey,
the same in Westchester.

1224
00:56:38,118 --> 00:56:41,218
They had the suburbs
completely dominated.

1225
00:56:41,518 --> 00:56:43,119
And I felt
that no one would really

1226
00:56:43,185 --> 00:56:44,719
give them the time of day.

1227
00:56:44,785 --> 00:56:48,985
So the strategy I came up
with was to pull them

1228
00:56:49,085 --> 00:56:51,685
out of the scene for a period
of a couple of months

1229
00:56:51,785 --> 00:56:54,585
and then just do one show
in Manhattan.

1230
00:56:54,685 --> 00:56:58,719
The premier spot
in New York City was The Palladium.

1231
00:56:58,819 --> 00:57:01,685
And I think it was
over 3,000 or 3,200--

1232
00:57:01,752 --> 00:57:03,119
it was bigger
than the Calderone.

1233
00:57:03,219 --> 00:57:06,852
And it was right in the heart
of the record industry.

1234
00:57:06,919 --> 00:57:10,452
So I called Ron Delsner who was
a friend, but a competitor,

1235
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:12,053
and I said, "I have a band

1236
00:57:12,153 --> 00:57:15,186
that I'm managing that I'd like
to have play the Palladium."

1237
00:57:15,453 --> 00:57:16,686
And he said, "Who are they?"

1238
00:57:16,786 --> 00:57:18,053
And I said, "Twisted Sister."

1239
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,086
And he said,
"What date do you want?"

1240
00:57:20,186 --> 00:57:23,953
The show was going to go on sale
on a Tuesday.

1241
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:25,820
And he called me up
on Tuesday afternoon

1242
00:57:25,886 --> 00:57:30,220
and he said,
"Are you advertising the show?"

1243
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,053
I said, "No Ronnie,
it's your show.

1244
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,120
I'm not gonna
advertise your show. Why?"

1245
00:57:35,186 --> 00:57:37,020
He said,
"There's 1,110 seats sold.

1246
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,954
It went on sale at noon today,
we didn't even break an ad."

1247
00:57:41,021 --> 00:57:43,621
And the next day the ad broke
in the "Village Voice"

1248
00:57:43,687 --> 00:57:47,121
and the industry know-it-alls,
who were into the cool scene,

1249
00:57:47,187 --> 00:57:48,787
were chuckling that,

1250
00:57:48,854 --> 00:57:51,054
"Watch, next week it's
going to say "cancelled."

1251
00:57:51,121 --> 00:57:53,987
And by Thursday
it was sold out.

1252
00:57:54,054 --> 00:57:56,754
And next week it said,
"Sold Out."

1253
00:57:59,754 --> 00:58:02,654
To book the Palladium,
sell out the Palladium,

1254
00:58:02,721 --> 00:58:06,987
in the heart of New York City
was basically just...

1255
00:58:07,787 --> 00:58:10,888
The fact that Twisted Sister
sold out the Palladium

1256
00:58:10,988 --> 00:58:14,155
with no record deal--

1257
00:58:14,222 --> 00:58:16,888
you know, that really cemented
in everybody's mind,

1258
00:58:16,955 --> 00:58:18,022
these guys are rock stars!

1259
00:58:18,122 --> 00:58:20,922
Playing the Palladium was
supposed to be the final step

1260
00:58:20,988 --> 00:58:24,155
in the road to superstardom.

1261
00:58:24,222 --> 00:58:26,988
The next step being
major record deal,

1262
00:58:27,055 --> 00:58:29,522
world tour,
world domination.

1263
00:58:29,588 --> 00:58:31,222
It had to be perfect.

1264
00:58:31,522 --> 00:58:33,088
It had to be right.

1265
00:58:33,188 --> 00:58:36,588
Staging, lighting,
new costumes,

1266
00:58:36,688 --> 00:58:39,789
rehearsals in a facility
that we could do full lights,

1267
00:58:39,856 --> 00:58:41,989
full sound, full staging.

1268
00:58:42,089 --> 00:58:44,589
So we had to rent
SIR's biggest room.

1269
00:58:44,689 --> 00:58:46,789
We even rented the Palladium

1270
00:58:46,889 --> 00:58:50,223
for a dress rehearsal
the day before the show.

1271
00:58:50,489 --> 00:58:52,456
This is gonna be it.
Every record label's coming,

1272
00:58:52,523 --> 00:58:56,756
and we've got
blurbs in the papers-- big deal.

1273
00:58:56,823 --> 00:59:00,056
And then during rehearsal--
dress rehearsal

1274
00:59:00,123 --> 00:59:03,123
at the Palladium--
catastrophe struck.

1275
00:59:03,223 --> 00:59:04,923
I was downstairs trying
to get ready

1276
00:59:04,989 --> 00:59:06,957
and I just,
I don't even remember,

1277
00:59:07,057 --> 00:59:10,624
I just passed out.
I think my head hit something.

1278
00:59:10,690 --> 00:59:12,857
They were looking for me
and I was downstairs,

1279
00:59:12,924 --> 00:59:15,590
you know,
I had a grand mal seizure.

1280
00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:21,857
Next thing I know
I'm in an ambulance.

1281
00:59:21,924 --> 00:59:24,157
Man I felt like--

1282
00:59:24,224 --> 00:59:26,890
like I got shot out of a canon
and then thrown

1283
00:59:26,957 --> 00:59:29,624
in a gorilla cage
and had an 800-pound ape

1284
00:59:29,690 --> 00:59:31,090
beat the shit out of me.

1285
00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:32,557
The show got postponed.

1286
00:59:32,657 --> 00:59:34,790
Because they couldn't do it
without me.

1287
00:59:36,091 --> 00:59:38,691
Man, you make plans
and you take hits

1288
00:59:38,758 --> 00:59:39,691
and it was devastating.

1289
00:59:39,758 --> 00:59:41,625
I mean,
it was absolutely devastating.

1290
00:59:41,691 --> 00:59:44,558
I went for walks--
how am I gonna come back from this?

1291
00:59:44,625 --> 00:59:45,858
How are we gonna
come back from this?

1292
00:59:45,958 --> 00:59:47,858
This was our shot,
this was our chance.

1293
00:59:47,925 --> 00:59:50,458
Listen, you do what you do.

1294
00:59:50,558 --> 00:59:52,458
You pick yourself up,
dust yourself off,

1295
00:59:52,525 --> 00:59:54,191
strap the spandex back on
and get back out there.

1296
01:00:00,125 --> 01:00:06,126
♪ They say, hey what are you
doin' with your life ♪

1297
01:00:06,192 --> 01:00:08,626
♪ Why don't you settle down... ♪

1298
01:00:08,692 --> 01:00:10,726
Nobody wanted it to end.

1299
01:00:10,826 --> 01:00:12,692
We were all proud.

1300
01:00:12,792 --> 01:00:15,692
The band was, you know, grateful.

1301
01:00:15,792 --> 01:00:18,726
They were electrified.
They were exhausted.

1302
01:00:18,792 --> 01:00:21,759
And we got, you know,
the show of a lifetime.

1303
01:00:22,126 --> 01:00:23,159
♪ I say ♪

1304
01:00:23,459 --> 01:00:29,226
♪ I'll never grow up,
I'll never grow up. ♪

1305
01:00:38,060 --> 01:00:40,960
We rescheduled,
the record labels,

1306
01:00:41,060 --> 01:00:43,593
basically all the ones
that were supposedly coming, didn't come.

1307
01:00:43,693 --> 01:00:48,093
Instead of now the heads of the
AandR departments being there,

1308
01:00:48,193 --> 01:00:50,127
the audience was filled
with their secretaries

1309
01:00:50,227 --> 01:00:51,893
and their assistants.

1310
01:00:51,993 --> 01:00:53,593
In a month's time
people looked at us

1311
01:00:53,693 --> 01:00:55,793
with the big Marshall stacks

1312
01:00:55,860 --> 01:00:57,960
and the costumes
and the staging,

1313
01:00:58,027 --> 01:01:00,160
and said we were passé.

1314
01:01:00,593 --> 01:01:03,094
We'd missed our opening.

1315
01:01:04,161 --> 01:01:08,061
The one person
who came back interested

1316
01:01:08,161 --> 01:01:10,961
was Epic Records--
Lennie Pizzi,

1317
01:01:11,061 --> 01:01:12,594
the head of Epic Records.

1318
01:01:12,661 --> 01:01:14,994
Now Lennie, again,

1319
01:01:15,061 --> 01:01:16,828
he had sent his secretary
or his assistant,

1320
01:01:16,928 --> 01:01:18,661
so he needed to see it
for himself.

1321
01:01:18,728 --> 01:01:22,961
Now we can offer limousine rides
to packed rooms every night.

1322
01:01:23,061 --> 01:01:25,061
But no, this had to be
in New York City

1323
01:01:25,128 --> 01:01:26,694
on his lunch hour
on a Monday.

1324
01:01:26,761 --> 01:01:28,194
Here he is, the head
of Epic Records

1325
01:01:28,461 --> 01:01:30,594
wants to see the same show

1326
01:01:30,661 --> 01:01:31,995
that we just put on
at the Palladium.

1327
01:01:32,095 --> 01:01:33,829
We agree.

1328
01:01:33,895 --> 01:01:36,862
It made me ill because you know
on a Monday we're off.

1329
01:01:36,929 --> 01:01:38,662
Monday means we have to come
in Sunday night,

1330
01:01:38,762 --> 01:01:39,695
prepare for the show.

1331
01:01:39,762 --> 01:01:43,495
He's gonna come in at noon
or 1:00 on his lunch hour.

1332
01:01:43,562 --> 01:01:45,162
It's humiliating.
But we agree.

1333
01:01:45,229 --> 01:01:46,895
So what did we do?

1334
01:01:46,962 --> 01:01:49,695
We rented SIR--
we rented all the equipment,

1335
01:01:49,795 --> 01:01:53,562
the sound, the lights,
the staging, everything--

1336
01:01:53,662 --> 01:01:56,595
and did a show
for Lennie Pizzi at--

1337
01:01:56,695 --> 01:01:58,662
was it 11:00 in the morning?

1338
01:01:58,729 --> 01:02:00,462
It in the...

1339
01:02:00,562 --> 01:02:02,996
it was crack of dawn as far as
Twisted Sister was concerned.

1340
01:02:03,096 --> 01:02:05,463
And he came in.

1341
01:02:05,530 --> 01:02:06,896
And the understanding was,

1342
01:02:06,963 --> 01:02:08,963
they were going
to pay us the expenses,

1343
01:02:09,030 --> 01:02:10,496
he would pay for the show.

1344
01:02:10,563 --> 01:02:12,730
I think around 12:00 or 1:00,
Lenny comes in,

1345
01:02:12,796 --> 01:02:15,663
the door opens up at the back
of SIR, there's one chair.

1346
01:02:15,763 --> 01:02:16,896
He sits down on the chair.

1347
01:02:16,963 --> 01:02:18,796
We play the whole
Palladium show.

1348
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:29,897
We finish the show,
he's not there.

1349
01:02:29,964 --> 01:02:32,564
He tells our manager
he had another meeting.

1350
01:02:32,631 --> 01:02:34,164
We never hear back from him.

1351
01:02:34,464 --> 01:02:36,464
They never paid the money
for the show.

1352
01:02:36,564 --> 01:02:38,131
We were out of pocket
even more money.

1353
01:02:38,231 --> 01:02:43,831
We didn't get signed
and... we were derailed.

1354
01:02:46,797 --> 01:02:48,764
As a fan and not an insider

1355
01:02:48,831 --> 01:02:50,964
or somebody that worked
for the band or with the band,

1356
01:02:51,064 --> 01:02:51,997
you didn't know this.

1357
01:02:52,064 --> 01:02:55,631
You didn't know that it was
a failure, so to speak.

1358
01:02:55,697 --> 01:02:58,031
Because, you know,

1359
01:02:58,097 --> 01:03:00,698
that next night they were
going to be at Hammerheads

1360
01:03:00,765 --> 01:03:03,798
or, you know, Detroit,
playing again.

1361
01:03:05,632 --> 01:03:06,998
Judas Priest!

1362
01:03:09,932 --> 01:03:11,932
Hell Bent For Leather!

1363
01:03:15,732 --> 01:03:16,798
Can you get over
these things?

1364
01:03:16,898 --> 01:03:18,998
Kind of. You're playing
five nights a week.

1365
01:03:19,065 --> 01:03:21,232
You lick your wounds, yes.

1366
01:03:21,532 --> 01:03:22,598
You get over it, yes.

1367
01:03:22,665 --> 01:03:24,632
We had a luxury
that most bands don't have,

1368
01:03:24,698 --> 01:03:27,198
but it was still a kick
to the solar plexus.

1369
01:03:27,765 --> 01:03:30,566
♪ Seek him here,
seek him on the highway ♪

1370
01:03:30,633 --> 01:03:32,666
♪ Never knowing
when he'll appear ♪

1371
01:03:32,733 --> 01:03:35,099
♪ All await,
engine's ticking over ♪

1372
01:03:35,199 --> 01:03:37,199
♪ Hear the roar
as they sense the fear ♪

1373
01:03:37,466 --> 01:03:39,866
♪ Wheels! ♪

1374
01:03:39,933 --> 01:03:41,866
♪ A glint of steel
and a flash of light! ♪

1375
01:03:41,966 --> 01:03:44,199
♪ Screams! ♪

1376
01:03:44,466 --> 01:03:46,566
♪ From a streak of fire
as he strikes! ♪

1377
01:03:46,633 --> 01:03:48,766
♪ Hell bent,
hell bent for leather ♪

1378
01:03:51,166 --> 01:03:53,499
♪ Hell bent,
hell bent for leather... ♪

1379
01:03:55,533 --> 01:03:58,934
I saw-- I was going someplace.

1380
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:04,234
And my big stumbling block
was these shithole clubs.

1381
01:04:09,234 --> 01:04:10,667
I fucking hated them.

1382
01:04:10,734 --> 01:04:13,234
They were a necessary evil.
They were hot.

1383
01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:16,134
They were cramped.
The stages were small.

1384
01:04:16,234 --> 01:04:18,467
They wouldn't allow me to do
what I needed to do.

1385
01:04:18,567 --> 01:04:20,067
They didn't treat me
like a star.

1386
01:04:23,467 --> 01:04:25,167
Point being--

1387
01:04:25,234 --> 01:04:29,068
I would really take
a lot out on these clubs,

1388
01:04:29,135 --> 01:04:31,068
and I would verbally abuse
the clubs.

1389
01:04:31,168 --> 01:04:33,801
And if there was something wrong
and something disgusting

1390
01:04:33,868 --> 01:04:37,501
I would let everybody know
how much I hated these clubs.

1391
01:04:38,835 --> 01:04:40,535
Dee would freak out
at sound checks,

1392
01:04:40,601 --> 01:04:42,467
and he'd throw people out
of clubs during sound checks.

1393
01:04:42,468 --> 01:04:43,700
And I would have to go and talk

1394
01:04:43,701 --> 01:04:45,668
to the bartenders
and kinda cool them out.

1395
01:04:45,735 --> 01:04:47,135
He'd start arguments
with club owners.

1396
01:04:47,235 --> 01:04:48,601
Maybe I'd have
to shut him up.

1397
01:04:48,668 --> 01:04:50,768
And he was a skinny little guy
with, uh,

1398
01:04:50,868 --> 01:04:53,868
40 pounds of hair so you're
gonna sell shit from the stage?

1399
01:04:53,935 --> 01:04:55,602
Wait till you get off
the stage, pal.

1400
01:04:56,502 --> 01:04:58,536
♪ Hell bent,
hell bent for leather... ♪

1401
01:04:58,636 --> 01:04:59,969
I was constantly running
interference

1402
01:05:00,036 --> 01:05:03,669
for Dee's bull-headed,
ridiculous behavior.

1403
01:05:03,736 --> 01:05:07,669
Take care you sick
motherfuckers!

1404
01:05:07,769 --> 01:05:09,469
But all they guys
did stupid shit.

1405
01:05:09,569 --> 01:05:10,936
The crew did stupid stuff.

1406
01:05:11,002 --> 01:05:14,236
And as the manager guy
who had to make the phone calls,

1407
01:05:14,536 --> 01:05:16,236
had to book the truck,
book the lighting gear.

1408
01:05:16,536 --> 01:05:18,002
I'll say one thing about that,

1409
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:19,902
because I did
that every single day,

1410
01:05:20,002 --> 01:05:21,468
because I didn't get any sleep,

1411
01:05:21,469 --> 01:05:22,835
because I had to
get up in the morning

1412
01:05:22,836 --> 01:05:24,769
and talk to the trucking
company, the lighting company,

1413
01:05:24,770 --> 01:05:27,503
deal with the fighting
with the crew,

1414
01:05:27,570 --> 01:05:28,737
deal with the fighting
with the band,

1415
01:05:28,803 --> 01:05:31,003
deal with the fighting
with the agents,

1416
01:05:31,070 --> 01:05:32,637
deal with the agents
and the club owners,

1417
01:05:32,703 --> 01:05:35,169
I never could become
a rock star.

1418
01:05:35,170 --> 01:05:37,670
I was robbed
of my rock star.

1419
01:05:37,803 --> 01:05:40,570
And I said, "Now you get
yourself a road manager

1420
01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:43,003
that will handle these guys,
I'm not gonna be there.

1421
01:05:43,103 --> 01:05:44,903
I don't want the calls
at 3:00 in the morning

1422
01:05:44,970 --> 01:05:48,470
when someone doesn't want
to pay you, or whatever it is."

1423
01:05:48,570 --> 01:05:49,603
So I brought Joe in.

1424
01:05:49,703 --> 01:05:52,070
So now we had Mark Puma
and we had Joe Gerber.

1425
01:05:52,137 --> 01:05:55,671
So we had like a-- there was
a support system there.

1426
01:05:55,738 --> 01:05:58,671
And he was pretty fried
when I came in because

1427
01:05:58,738 --> 01:06:00,671
all he did was he handed me
Kevin Brenner's phone number--

1428
01:06:00,771 --> 01:06:01,771
the agent--

1429
01:06:03,904 --> 01:06:06,171
a bag of receipts,

1430
01:06:06,238 --> 01:06:09,971
a couple of looseleaf pages
of future dates,

1431
01:06:10,071 --> 01:06:12,738
and said, "Good luck."

1432
01:06:12,804 --> 01:06:14,071
And that was it.

1433
01:06:14,171 --> 01:06:17,704
And I sort of had to
figure it out for myself.

1434
01:06:17,804 --> 01:06:20,671
Which was half the--
either the terror or the fun.

1435
01:06:20,738 --> 01:06:22,505
But you know,
fear is a great motivator.

1436
01:06:24,972 --> 01:06:26,705
Here we go, babe!

1437
01:06:27,739 --> 01:06:32,572
So licking our wounds now
we go from April, May, June.

1438
01:06:32,639 --> 01:06:36,839
However, we did hear
that there was a concert format

1439
01:06:36,905 --> 01:06:38,905
at Adventureland Amusement Park.

1440
01:06:39,005 --> 01:06:41,672
And they were gonna have the
biggest bands in Long Island

1441
01:06:41,739 --> 01:06:44,705
play every Tuesday night
for a month.

1442
01:06:44,805 --> 01:06:46,905
We rented a plane and flew it
over Jones Beach

1443
01:06:46,972 --> 01:06:48,539
July 4th weekend saying,

1444
01:06:48,605 --> 01:06:50,705
"Twisted Sister Free Concert,
Adventureland."

1445
01:06:50,806 --> 01:06:53,506
The week before Zebra had done
about 6,000 people, I think,

1446
01:06:53,573 --> 01:06:55,740
the promoter thought
6 or 7,000 people showed up.

1447
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,006
I think we did, too.

1448
01:06:57,106 --> 01:07:00,073
I called up one of my friends
and said, "Come on, free show.

1449
01:07:00,140 --> 01:07:01,573
How can we go wrong?

1450
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,006
We got some beers, get in
the car, drive out there."

1451
01:07:05,106 --> 01:07:06,940
We couldn't understand
where the traffic was from.

1452
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:11,040
Never ever expecting thousands
and thousands of people.

1453
01:07:11,140 --> 01:07:13,073
Three to five miles
in both directions.

1454
01:07:13,173 --> 01:07:15,606
Cars just abandoned
on the side of the road.

1455
01:07:15,673 --> 01:07:16,840
We were so far
in the back,

1456
01:07:16,940 --> 01:07:20,207
people were on top of the buildings
to watch the show.

1457
01:07:20,474 --> 01:07:21,807
It was a zoo.

1458
01:07:21,907 --> 01:07:24,141
We had a trailer to get ready in.

1459
01:07:24,241 --> 01:07:26,107
And I was, "So how's
it looking out there?"

1460
01:07:26,207 --> 01:07:27,741
And Joe was whitefaced.

1461
01:07:27,841 --> 01:07:29,507
He's like,
"Look out the window."

1462
01:07:29,574 --> 01:07:33,574
And I looked and it was
an ocean, an ocean of people!

1463
01:07:47,174 --> 01:07:51,242
There was not 7,000, not 10,000,
not 12,000, not 15,

1464
01:07:51,542 --> 01:07:53,075
but 22,000 people showed up.

1465
01:07:53,175 --> 01:07:57,575
23,000 people according
to the police estimate,

1466
01:07:57,642 --> 01:07:58,608
waiting to greet us.

1467
01:07:58,708 --> 01:08:01,542
The younger brothers and sisters
of everybody we had ever played for--

1468
01:08:10,942 --> 01:08:13,175
There was a two-story
office building,

1469
01:08:13,475 --> 01:08:15,008
across the parking lot
from the stage.

1470
01:08:15,075 --> 01:08:17,175
Kids were hanging all over it,
which was dangerous

1471
01:08:17,242 --> 01:08:19,909
'cause there was nothing to
prevent them from falling off.

1472
01:08:20,009 --> 01:08:20,909
We found out later

1473
01:08:21,009 --> 01:08:25,076
there was also a ridiculously
expensive microwave antenna

1474
01:08:25,143 --> 01:08:27,809
that they had bent into the shape
of a "T" and an "S."

1475
01:08:32,243 --> 01:08:35,076
We laid this anti-Disco barrage
to the point

1476
01:08:35,143 --> 01:08:36,809
where kids are running
to Republic Airport,

1477
01:08:36,876 --> 01:08:39,109
painting "Disco Sucks"
on the sides of planes.

1478
01:08:39,176 --> 01:08:40,976
We caused almost a riot

1479
01:08:41,043 --> 01:08:43,609
and because of the damage
done by our fans,

1480
01:08:43,676 --> 01:08:46,509
we are summarily banned
from all outdoor shows in Long Island

1481
01:08:46,609 --> 01:08:47,777
from that day on.

1482
01:08:49,577 --> 01:08:51,077
Oops!

1483
01:08:52,810 --> 01:08:56,510
You actually got up
in the morning.

1484
01:08:56,577 --> 01:08:57,744
You ate.

1485
01:08:57,810 --> 01:09:00,844
A lot of times
in the summer time

1486
01:09:00,944 --> 01:09:02,577
we'd go to the beach,

1487
01:09:02,677 --> 01:09:05,577
we'd come back,
we'd eat, we'd go play,

1488
01:09:05,644 --> 01:09:10,944
and um, we'd probably stay up
the whole damn night

1489
01:09:11,010 --> 01:09:14,744
and go home, fall asleep,
wake up.

1490
01:09:14,810 --> 01:09:18,811
It was this constant five
to seven nights a week playing

1491
01:09:18,878 --> 01:09:21,111
and it was just
a constant party.

1492
01:09:21,178 --> 01:09:22,178
Because you knew people.

1493
01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:24,545
You didn't know
if you were going home or not,

1494
01:09:24,645 --> 01:09:26,710
you would just end up
at somebody's house

1495
01:09:26,711 --> 01:09:27,677
and go to the next gig.

1496
01:09:27,678 --> 01:09:30,945
It was a lot like, um,

1497
01:09:31,011 --> 01:09:33,211
"Groundhog Day."

1498
01:09:33,478 --> 01:09:36,811
The clubs were different,
but the days became the same,

1499
01:09:36,878 --> 01:09:40,178
It was this repetition that went
on day after day

1500
01:09:40,245 --> 01:09:43,178
and week after week and month
after month and year after year.

1501
01:09:43,245 --> 01:09:45,079
It was getting to the club
at 3:00 in the afternoon,

1502
01:09:45,146 --> 01:09:47,512
doing your sound check,

1503
01:09:47,612 --> 01:09:50,612
hanging out until 10:00
at night, doing your shows,

1504
01:09:50,679 --> 01:09:52,746
getting back home
at 6:00 in the morning,

1505
01:09:52,846 --> 01:09:55,846
waking up at 1:00 in the
afternoon, taking a shower,

1506
01:09:55,912 --> 01:09:57,479
doing the whole thing
over again.

1507
01:09:57,546 --> 01:09:58,612
Week after week after week,

1508
01:09:58,679 --> 01:10:02,146
you play the same songs,
three sets, four sets a night.

1509
01:10:02,212 --> 01:10:03,846
And into Tuesday,
into Wednesday,

1510
01:10:03,946 --> 01:10:06,212
into Thursday, into Friday,
into Saturday.

1511
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,212
I would just count down the
songs in the set-- five, four...

1512
01:10:09,512 --> 01:10:11,579
Until you collapse Saturday
night at 6:00am.

1513
01:10:11,679 --> 01:10:13,512
Sunday morning you slept
all day.

1514
01:10:13,579 --> 01:10:14,947
You had-- your relationships

1515
01:10:15,013 --> 01:10:17,013
with your girlfriends fell apart
because you had no energy.

1516
01:10:17,113 --> 01:10:19,480
One day off,
two days off and back again.

1517
01:10:19,547 --> 01:10:20,747
I did that for years!

1518
01:10:20,813 --> 01:10:23,213
You know I used to come home
some nights and think,

1519
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:25,713
"Man, this is never
gonna end."

1520
01:10:25,780 --> 01:10:27,247
Like this is just
a bad dream.

1521
01:10:27,513 --> 01:10:29,980
I would craw
into a tub every morning!

1522
01:10:30,047 --> 01:10:32,513
I would crawl out of bed,
I couldn't talk.

1523
01:10:32,613 --> 01:10:34,013
And then I'd crawl right
into a tub.

1524
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:35,547
And I'd just fall
into a bathtub--

1525
01:10:35,647 --> 01:10:39,013
a 20-something-year-old guy--
and soak in a hot tub

1526
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,147
to get my body loosened up
so I could go do it again!

1527
01:10:42,213 --> 01:10:44,614
We came onstage at the time

1528
01:10:44,714 --> 01:10:46,081
that we were contracted
to go onstage--

1529
01:10:46,148 --> 01:10:48,781
because this is the discipline
we have as a professional band.

1530
01:10:48,848 --> 01:10:50,981
We played until
we couldn't play anymore,

1531
01:10:51,081 --> 01:10:53,181
We collapsed onstage
until there was nothing left.

1532
01:10:53,481 --> 01:10:55,948
But!

1533
01:10:56,014 --> 01:10:59,014
It felt so good. It's a joke,
it felt so good when I stopped.

1534
01:10:59,081 --> 01:11:04,614
I alwa-- I loved the achievement
of having blown away a crowd.

1535
01:11:04,681 --> 01:11:10,981
This incredible desire
to prove to the paying public

1536
01:11:11,081 --> 01:11:14,582
that we were the greatest live
band you could ever see.

1537
01:11:14,682 --> 01:11:17,115
And that we are going
to drain us,

1538
01:11:17,215 --> 01:11:21,015
and in the process, you, of all
energy in order to convince you.

1539
01:11:21,115 --> 01:11:22,582
I guess it's like any athlete,

1540
01:11:22,682 --> 01:11:25,982
or a runner or anybody
who excels, you know?

1541
01:11:26,049 --> 01:11:30,149
Like, you can't be victorious
unless you're willing to--

1542
01:11:30,249 --> 01:11:32,249
if it was easy
everybody'd be doing it.

1543
01:11:34,949 --> 01:11:36,815
This one's our single!

1544
01:11:36,915 --> 01:11:38,949
"I'll Never Grow Up Now!"

1545
01:11:43,516 --> 01:11:46,816
♪ They say, You better stop
your dreamin' ♪

1546
01:11:46,883 --> 01:11:50,483
♪ You're goin' nowhere fast... ♪

1547
01:11:50,583 --> 01:11:52,716
A girl comes up during
sound check and says to me,

1548
01:11:52,783 --> 01:11:53,782
"My mother told me

1549
01:11:53,783 --> 01:11:55,249
that Eddie Kramer is going
to come and see you."

1550
01:11:55,250 --> 01:11:56,483
And I went, "Eddie Kramer..."

1551
01:11:56,583 --> 01:11:58,150
Eddie Kramer... Like, there's
only one Eddie Kramer I know,

1552
01:11:58,250 --> 01:12:01,016
you know he's the super famous
producer/engineer guy

1553
01:12:01,116 --> 01:12:03,483
for Hendrix and Zeppelin
and the Rolling Stones.

1554
01:12:03,583 --> 01:12:04,116
That Eddie Kramer?

1555
01:12:04,183 --> 01:12:06,183
♪ You're lookin' like
a slob... ♪

1556
01:12:06,483 --> 01:12:07,816
What are the chances?

1557
01:12:07,916 --> 01:12:09,751
I said to everyone that Eddie Kramer
supposed to be coming.

1558
01:12:09,817 --> 01:12:11,784
Yeah, right, sure,
Eddie Kramer's coming to Detroit.

1559
01:12:11,884 --> 01:12:12,951
Yeah, right, sure.

1560
01:12:13,051 --> 01:12:14,784
Well, lo and behold,
it's raining that night,

1561
01:12:14,884 --> 01:12:16,884
there's 100 people in the room.

1562
01:12:16,951 --> 01:12:18,551
Eddie Kramer comes in.

1563
01:12:18,651 --> 01:12:21,551
Sees the band, loves it, says,
"Let's do a production deal."

1564
01:12:21,617 --> 01:12:23,651
So this is our next thing.

1565
01:12:23,717 --> 01:12:25,084
We're gonna sign
with Eddie Kramer,

1566
01:12:25,151 --> 01:12:27,251
we're gonna do songs,
we're gonna get into a studio,

1567
01:12:27,551 --> 01:12:28,551
we're gonna make a demo.

1568
01:12:29,584 --> 01:12:34,917
♪ Why don't you listen to
the music we're playing? ♪

1569
01:12:35,017 --> 01:12:39,885
♪ Go pick on somebody else... ♪

1570
01:12:39,952 --> 01:12:41,085
We didn't have big budgets
on this,

1571
01:12:41,185 --> 01:12:43,085
we had to quickly go in
and record these things

1572
01:12:43,185 --> 01:12:45,518
like "I'll Never Grow Up"
and "Under The Blade,"

1573
01:12:45,585 --> 01:12:46,752
and "Shoot 'Em Down."

1574
01:12:46,818 --> 01:12:48,752
We were with
Eddie Kramer. It was like a big deal.

1575
01:12:48,818 --> 01:12:49,785
Man, Eddie Kramer...

1576
01:12:49,852 --> 01:12:51,218
Wow, how huge is that, right?

1577
01:12:51,485 --> 01:12:53,818
And he's a dear friend,
and remains so to this day,

1578
01:12:53,885 --> 01:12:55,218
but he couldn't get us a deal.

1579
01:12:55,518 --> 01:12:57,485
He could not get us a deal.

1580
01:12:57,585 --> 01:12:58,985
We kinda came
to this conclusion

1581
01:12:59,085 --> 01:13:00,252
that if he can't get us
a deal,

1582
01:13:00,518 --> 01:13:02,252
let's at least press up
our own records

1583
01:13:02,518 --> 01:13:04,218
and put it out
on Twisted Sister Records.

1584
01:13:04,485 --> 01:13:06,785
And at least use them
for commercials on radio

1585
01:13:06,885 --> 01:13:09,219
and sell some-- something--
give them away--

1586
01:13:09,486 --> 01:13:10,486
just say we made a record.

1587
01:13:10,586 --> 01:13:14,486
We needed to have us and the word
"record" kinda being said together.

1588
01:13:14,553 --> 01:13:15,719
The reason we put out singles,

1589
01:13:15,786 --> 01:13:18,886
was to keep the excitement
about the band,

1590
01:13:18,953 --> 01:13:20,053
show the record companies

1591
01:13:20,119 --> 01:13:22,653
that we could release
something that sold.

1592
01:13:22,719 --> 01:13:24,819
Because our singles
sold out all the time.

1593
01:13:24,919 --> 01:13:27,753
We were amazed
at how many we'd sell.

1594
01:13:27,819 --> 01:13:31,119
And I don't think it still fazed
the record companies.

1595
01:13:31,186 --> 01:13:32,853
I don't think it fazed them at all.

1596
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:38,120
On top of everything else,

1597
01:13:38,220 --> 01:13:41,020
I think we started
to suffer a drop-off

1598
01:13:41,087 --> 01:13:45,220
in our following
in some of the clubs.

1599
01:13:45,487 --> 01:13:49,187
We had gone and pushed
further out into other areas,

1600
01:13:49,254 --> 01:13:51,920
working extra hard in
some of the outlying areas

1601
01:13:52,020 --> 01:13:53,520
to build new markets,

1602
01:13:53,587 --> 01:13:56,620
and we let some of our
regular markets soften.

1603
01:13:56,687 --> 01:13:58,519
We needed something to take it
to the next summer.

1604
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,719
And Dee said,
"Well, I have this new song

1605
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:02,154
called 'Bad Boys Of Rock 'n' Roll'
and let's--

1606
01:14:02,620 --> 01:14:05,487
maybe we can have
the Bad Boys Summer of 1980."

1607
01:14:06,655 --> 01:14:08,255
This one's our new single,

1608
01:14:08,521 --> 01:14:10,588
gonna be in the stores
on June 4th--

1609
01:14:10,655 --> 01:14:13,655
called the "Bad Boys
Of Rock 'n' Roll!"

1610
01:14:13,755 --> 01:14:15,121
Dee threw down
the gauntlet and said,

1611
01:14:15,188 --> 01:14:19,588
"Let's focus in on making new costumes,
new stage set, new everything."

1612
01:14:19,655 --> 01:14:23,121
And we can focus in on
the next assault in the bars.

1613
01:14:23,188 --> 01:14:27,055
I do feel that
the "Bad Boys" was really

1614
01:14:27,121 --> 01:14:31,055
the solidification
of my creative control.

1615
01:14:31,121 --> 01:14:33,821
I was basically given
carte blanche,

1616
01:14:33,921 --> 01:14:37,122
and the band
accepted all my ideas,

1617
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:39,822
and seemed to welcome them
and support them.

1618
01:14:39,889 --> 01:14:42,689
So we really rose
to the occasion.

1619
01:14:42,756 --> 01:14:44,689
We went up to a studio
in White Plains called Minot

1620
01:14:44,756 --> 01:14:46,556
and recorded "Bad Boys" single,

1621
01:14:46,622 --> 01:14:48,922
and Memorial Day weekend
we hit the mark,

1622
01:14:49,022 --> 01:14:52,222
took the ads out in the paper,
Twisted Sister Bad Boys 1980.

1623
01:14:52,489 --> 01:14:54,022
New stage set,
new clothes,

1624
01:14:54,089 --> 01:14:56,522
new songs,
new promotion and bang!

1625
01:14:58,022 --> 01:15:00,256
♪ Now us boys we're
annoying you ♪

1626
01:15:00,522 --> 01:15:02,956
♪ Well, we're sorry to be
in your way ♪

1627
01:15:03,056 --> 01:15:05,957
♪ You can't stand anything
we do ♪

1628
01:15:06,057 --> 01:15:08,990
♪ Well, what would you like
us to say? ♪

1629
01:15:09,090 --> 01:15:11,857
♪ We just want to enjoy
our lives ♪

1630
01:15:11,957 --> 01:15:14,523
♪ And have fun with
all that we do ♪

1631
01:15:14,590 --> 01:15:17,223
♪ We're just having a good
time, so let down your guard ♪

1632
01:15:17,490 --> 01:15:20,190
♪ And if you don't like it,
fuck you ♪

1633
01:15:20,490 --> 01:15:23,790
♪ We're the bad boys
of rock and roll ♪

1634
01:15:23,890 --> 01:15:26,190
♪ Mad boys out of control ♪

1635
01:15:26,490 --> 01:15:30,657
♪ Bad boys of rock and roll... ♪

1636
01:15:30,757 --> 01:15:33,491
So I think "Bad Boys" was
an attempt

1637
01:15:33,558 --> 01:15:36,991
to give everybody
something fresh to look at,

1638
01:15:37,091 --> 01:15:39,958
and something to motivate
everybody, including the band.

1639
01:15:40,058 --> 01:15:41,524
That's when
we became a record company,

1640
01:15:41,591 --> 01:15:43,958
merch company,
Twisted Incorporated.

1641
01:15:44,024 --> 01:15:46,624
Everything tied together,

1642
01:15:46,724 --> 01:15:48,491
'cause we couldn't rely
on anybody else,

1643
01:15:48,591 --> 01:15:50,191
and really rebuilt ourselves.

1644
01:15:50,258 --> 01:15:52,524
And that's where we really
started expanding-- posters--

1645
01:15:52,624 --> 01:15:53,524
Now Appearing!

1646
01:15:53,624 --> 01:15:55,824
Records in the stores,
radio spots,

1647
01:15:55,891 --> 01:15:57,624
everything you would expect
from a national act.

1648
01:15:57,724 --> 01:16:00,924
They were playing us on a
Thursday and doing the business,

1649
01:16:00,991 --> 01:16:03,259
and playing Staten Island
on a Friday

1650
01:16:03,525 --> 01:16:04,192
and doing the business,

1651
01:16:04,259 --> 01:16:07,059
and Queens or Jersey
on a Saturday

1652
01:16:07,125 --> 01:16:08,059
and doing the business.

1653
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:09,759
I think they played,
if I'm not mistaken,

1654
01:16:09,825 --> 01:16:11,892
from Wednesday to Sunday.

1655
01:16:11,959 --> 01:16:14,492
And every night
it was the same thing,

1656
01:16:14,559 --> 01:16:15,759
they would do business.

1657
01:16:15,825 --> 01:16:17,259
Check this one out we're going
to do for you--

1658
01:16:17,525 --> 01:16:19,192
"Rock 'n Roll Saviors!"

1659
01:16:36,826 --> 01:16:39,160
The closing of Hammerheads
in Levittown

1660
01:16:39,226 --> 01:16:40,193
was actually the beginning

1661
01:16:40,493 --> 01:16:43,260
of rock destruction period
of Twisted Sister.

1662
01:16:44,793 --> 01:16:46,825
We show up at the club and
we're told the club is going

1663
01:16:46,826 --> 01:16:48,960
out of business that night--
that it's over, it's done.

1664
01:16:49,026 --> 01:16:50,826
They're gonna move
into another location

1665
01:16:50,893 --> 01:16:52,960
and that the club owners and
the landlord hate each other.

1666
01:16:53,493 --> 01:16:54,759
And the club owners
have told us

1667
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:56,559
to tell our fans that
they can do whatever they want.

1668
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:57,260
They hate the landlord.

1669
01:16:57,493 --> 01:16:59,260
They don't care,
destroy the room.

1670
01:17:00,761 --> 01:17:03,194
Take anything.
So our fans start taking.

1671
01:17:03,494 --> 01:17:04,894
What do they take?

1672
01:17:04,994 --> 01:17:07,661
They take the urinals.
They take the toilets.

1673
01:17:07,761 --> 01:17:10,761
They take the toilet stalls.
They take the fire alarm.

1674
01:17:10,827 --> 01:17:12,827
They take everything out of--

1675
01:17:12,927 --> 01:17:16,094
they're ripping the club
physically apart.

1676
01:17:16,161 --> 01:17:19,994
I remember the bathroom being--
the walls being leveled,

1677
01:17:20,094 --> 01:17:22,961
just coming out
and seeing water and a bowl,

1678
01:17:23,061 --> 01:17:24,861
and the sinks were gone.

1679
01:17:24,961 --> 01:17:27,127
I heard somebody's ear
was ripped off--

1680
01:17:27,194 --> 01:17:29,895
it was just pandemonium!

1681
01:17:30,195 --> 01:17:35,028
♪ We're the rock 'n' roll
saviors ♪

1682
01:17:36,028 --> 01:17:40,728
♪ Rock 'n' roll
we will defend ♪

1683
01:17:40,795 --> 01:17:43,995
And the last thing left,
at 4:00 in the morning,

1684
01:17:44,062 --> 01:17:45,262
is the air conditioning system.

1685
01:17:45,528 --> 01:17:48,162
And at 3:55,
someone reaches up

1686
01:17:48,228 --> 01:17:51,828
and pulls
the entire false ceiling down.

1687
01:17:51,895 --> 01:17:53,962
The entire air conditioning
system cracks.

1688
01:17:54,062 --> 01:17:55,528
The water pipe cracks.

1689
01:17:55,595 --> 01:17:56,828
The room fills with water.

1690
01:17:56,928 --> 01:17:58,763
We scream, "Get out!"

1691
01:18:01,896 --> 01:18:03,696
All I know
is that they stopped playing,

1692
01:18:03,763 --> 01:18:05,129
and I turned around

1693
01:18:05,196 --> 01:18:08,029
and the ceiling of the club
was basically on the floor.

1694
01:18:10,029 --> 01:18:11,496
How much did I break?

1695
01:18:11,563 --> 01:18:13,663
I was onstage playing,
I couldn't break anything.

1696
01:18:13,763 --> 01:18:14,796
I wanted to.

1697
01:18:14,863 --> 01:18:17,663
♪ But Disco is dead,
it was dead ♪

1698
01:18:17,763 --> 01:18:19,063
♪ Well, baby, it's dead ♪

1699
01:18:19,163 --> 01:18:20,929
♪ Dead, dead, dead... ♪

1700
01:18:20,996 --> 01:18:25,629
During the Bad Boys tour,
we had the opportunity to close,

1701
01:18:25,696 --> 01:18:29,130
or re-christen,
the 2001 Disco.

1702
01:18:29,230 --> 01:18:32,864
Uh, which was very significant,
very symbolic,

1703
01:18:32,964 --> 01:18:34,264
being the nightclub

1704
01:18:34,564 --> 01:18:36,997
that John Travolta danced
his legendary dance

1705
01:18:37,097 --> 01:18:38,497
in "Saturday Night Fever."

1706
01:18:38,597 --> 01:18:40,830
The club owner said,
"You have your fans come in

1707
01:18:40,897 --> 01:18:45,630
"and basically exorcize Disco
from our room

1708
01:18:45,631 --> 01:18:46,797
and turn it into a rock club."

1709
01:18:46,798 --> 01:18:48,230
Elmo, turn all the lights on!

1710
01:18:48,530 --> 01:18:50,730
This sign was
the original sign used

1711
01:18:50,797 --> 01:18:55,264
when they made all the posters
for "Saturday Night Fever!"

1712
01:18:55,565 --> 01:18:58,931
Let's give it the salute,
ladies and gentlemen!

1713
01:18:58,998 --> 01:19:03,731
It's time to ring out the old,
and bring in the new!

1714
01:19:03,798 --> 01:19:07,265
'Cause we got something
to say about that!

1715
01:19:12,231 --> 01:19:14,631
Sick motherfucker!

1716
01:19:14,698 --> 01:19:16,198
That's what we are!

1717
01:19:16,498 --> 01:19:17,931
Fuck "Saturday Night Fever!"

1718
01:19:18,031 --> 01:19:24,065
Now I ask to sing with us
like this-- everybody now!

1719
01:19:24,165 --> 01:19:27,266
That destruction of the club,

1720
01:19:27,532 --> 01:19:31,066
led to a phone call from another
club owner who said,

1721
01:19:31,132 --> 01:19:32,966
"I'm getting out of my contract.

1722
01:19:33,032 --> 01:19:35,199
I don't care, have your fans
come and destroy the room."

1723
01:19:35,266 --> 01:19:40,266
And he took out advertisements--
'Emmett's RIP-- Rest In Peace."

1724
01:19:40,566 --> 01:19:42,832
What are we? The destruc--
uh, we come in,

1725
01:19:42,899 --> 01:19:45,266
"Alright this is the last night,
take what you want!"

1726
01:19:45,532 --> 01:19:47,766
The fans dismantle that room.

1727
01:19:47,866 --> 01:19:49,266
2000 Disco?

1728
01:19:49,532 --> 01:19:50,899
Dismantle that room.

1729
01:19:50,999 --> 01:19:53,032
Soap Factory in Jersey--

1730
01:19:53,099 --> 01:19:54,500
which was the last one.

1731
01:20:21,033 --> 01:20:22,768
Does anybody want
to hear us play music?

1732
01:20:24,934 --> 01:20:28,168
To me that stuff
was schticky,

1733
01:20:28,234 --> 01:20:32,901
it was fun, it brought
people in, definitely.

1734
01:20:32,968 --> 01:20:34,801
But I knew it wasn't
the kind of thing

1735
01:20:34,901 --> 01:20:37,934
that was gonna make
Twisted Sister world famous.

1736
01:20:38,001 --> 01:20:42,701
It needed to be more about
the band, more about the music.

1737
01:20:42,801 --> 01:20:46,601
It needed to incorporate
these ideas and focus them.

1738
01:20:46,701 --> 01:20:48,134
The Sick Motherfucking
Friends of Twisted Sister

1739
01:20:48,201 --> 01:20:51,902
was officially developed
around the Bad Boys time,

1740
01:20:52,002 --> 01:20:55,669
with membership cards,
and a welcoming letter.

1741
01:20:55,769 --> 01:20:59,169
Our friends know that we refer
to our friends

1742
01:20:59,235 --> 01:21:02,135
as the Sick Motherfuckers,
you see?

1743
01:21:04,569 --> 01:21:07,235
That's because we're
sick motherfuckers.

1744
01:21:07,535 --> 01:21:10,235
So what we did is we started
an organization,

1745
01:21:10,535 --> 01:21:14,002
rather than calling it
the Twisted Sister Fan Club,

1746
01:21:14,102 --> 01:21:16,269
'cause that sounds like pussy shit,
you know what I'm saying?

1747
01:21:16,569 --> 01:21:17,735
I'm a Twisted Sister Fan, ooh!

1748
01:21:17,835 --> 01:21:20,002
That's bullshit.

1749
01:21:20,069 --> 01:21:23,603
We call it the Sick Motherfucking
Friends of Twisted Sister!

1750
01:21:25,603 --> 01:21:27,770
I gotta lot of grief
from people,

1751
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:30,070
like you know, "You like them?!"

1752
01:21:30,170 --> 01:21:34,103
And I think the band turned that
to their advantage, you know?

1753
01:21:34,203 --> 01:21:36,636
You're one of us.
You're a dirtbag.

1754
01:21:36,703 --> 01:21:39,503
You're a biker. You're an S.M.F.,
you know. You're one of us!

1755
01:21:39,570 --> 01:21:41,536
And it banded people together.

1756
01:21:41,603 --> 01:21:44,903
I had a hatred
for all the kind of people

1757
01:21:44,970 --> 01:21:46,970
who would look down
at me with disdain.

1758
01:21:47,036 --> 01:21:48,603
I dealt with them
my whole life.

1759
01:21:48,703 --> 01:21:52,237
And discovered that there was
more of the "mes" in the world

1760
01:21:52,504 --> 01:21:53,871
than there was
of the cool people.

1761
01:21:53,937 --> 01:21:57,004
The whole S.M.F. thing is
about all these people

1762
01:21:57,104 --> 01:21:58,737
coming together
and finding each other...

1763
01:22:00,171 --> 01:22:03,637
and creating "cool"
where none exists.

1764
01:22:03,737 --> 01:22:06,771
If you wanna clap and shout,
clap and shout!

1765
01:22:06,871 --> 01:22:09,671
If you wanna jump up and down
and go out of your fuckin' mind,

1766
01:22:09,737 --> 01:22:11,237
go out of your fuckin' mind!

1767
01:22:11,537 --> 01:22:13,237
'Cause it doesn't fuckin'
matter!

1768
01:22:13,537 --> 01:22:16,504
It doesn't matter
what other people think,

1769
01:22:16,571 --> 01:22:18,004
the only thing
that fucking matters

1770
01:22:18,104 --> 01:22:19,772
is what you fucking think!

1771
01:22:19,838 --> 01:22:23,572
And if you like what you are,
fuck everybody!

1772
01:22:23,672 --> 01:22:26,605
The beautiful people.
The beautiful people,

1773
01:22:26,705 --> 01:22:31,005
the cool people,
and the together people,

1774
01:22:31,072 --> 01:22:32,105
they are the minority.

1775
01:22:32,172 --> 01:22:35,772
The majority of us are just
regular Joes and Janes.

1776
01:22:35,838 --> 01:22:38,238
And we're made to feel less
than everybody else--

1777
01:22:38,505 --> 01:22:41,005
not in Twisted Sister's world.

1778
01:22:42,205 --> 01:22:44,538
I would sit at home
and consider,

1779
01:22:44,638 --> 01:22:47,105
okay, I could go out
with my friends to a bar

1780
01:22:47,205 --> 01:22:50,906
in the area five miles away
and see some other band,

1781
01:22:50,973 --> 01:22:55,106
or drive 40 miles through
the snow to go see Sister,

1782
01:22:55,206 --> 01:22:57,839
you know,
at Emmett's down in Jamesburgh.

1783
01:22:57,906 --> 01:22:59,273
And for me
it was an easy decision.

1784
01:22:59,539 --> 01:23:01,906
Rain, snow, sleet, hail,
didn't matter.

1785
01:23:02,006 --> 01:23:03,673
We're just going!
We're getting in the car.

1786
01:23:03,739 --> 01:23:06,839
We got pot. We got beer money.
We got money to get in.

1787
01:23:06,906 --> 01:23:08,139
We're taking it to Detroit!

1788
01:23:08,206 --> 01:23:11,139
We've had cars break down.
We've had to leave cars there

1789
01:23:11,206 --> 01:23:13,506
and basically had
to pile seven people

1790
01:23:13,606 --> 01:23:15,539
in a Firebird
to drive home.

1791
01:23:15,606 --> 01:23:17,574
And it was still
well worth the trip.

1792
01:23:17,674 --> 01:23:21,874
Let's just say I would go
on average three nights a week.

1793
01:23:21,940 --> 01:23:23,207
Maybe four.

1794
01:23:23,274 --> 01:23:26,540
I remember a large part
of that audience coming

1795
01:23:26,607 --> 01:23:28,240
from Farmingdale, Long Island.

1796
01:23:28,540 --> 01:23:30,107
And Farmingdale, Long Island

1797
01:23:30,207 --> 01:23:33,274
is a good three and a half hours
away from the Final Exam.

1798
01:23:33,574 --> 01:23:34,774
I wouldn't go to Farmingdale.

1799
01:23:34,874 --> 01:23:36,874
Maybe to see Sinatra,
but that's about it.

1800
01:23:36,974 --> 01:23:39,607
And for a kid from Jersey there
was always this two-river rule.

1801
01:23:39,674 --> 01:23:41,874
I mean you would cross one river
into Manhattan,

1802
01:23:41,940 --> 01:23:44,640
but crossing two rivers
into Long Island,

1803
01:23:44,740 --> 01:23:45,875
that meant it was too far away.

1804
01:23:45,941 --> 01:23:48,575
And we'd go and get hammered
and come outside,

1805
01:23:48,675 --> 01:23:49,541
you know after the show,

1806
01:23:49,542 --> 01:23:50,775
and get in the car
and pass out

1807
01:23:50,776 --> 01:23:52,508
and in the morning
wake up and drive home.

1808
01:23:52,575 --> 01:23:54,541
A lot of times I'd get dropped
off right at work.

1809
01:23:54,608 --> 01:23:56,841
Basically wash my face,
work eight hours,

1810
01:23:56,941 --> 01:23:59,108
sleep a couple of hours and do
the whole thing over again.

1811
01:24:01,941 --> 01:24:03,108
You're laughing.
That's what we did.

1812
01:24:06,241 --> 01:24:07,741
If you like what we're doing,

1813
01:24:07,808 --> 01:24:11,108
show us you like what
we're doing, motherfucker!

1814
01:24:13,508 --> 01:24:15,042
Or if you don't want
to do that,

1815
01:24:15,109 --> 01:24:17,809
you can turn around,
get off your fucking ass,

1816
01:24:17,909 --> 01:24:19,176
and get the fuck outta here,

1817
01:24:19,276 --> 01:24:22,076
and go someplace else
where you'll be more appreciated

1818
01:24:22,176 --> 01:24:24,976
'cause we couldn't give
two shits about you!

1819
01:24:26,142 --> 01:24:30,109
I started becoming the angry
guy, that was my thing on stage.

1820
01:24:30,209 --> 01:24:33,242
Jay Jay was the storyteller,

1821
01:24:33,542 --> 01:24:36,109
the sort of laid back kind
of guy, you know.

1822
01:24:36,209 --> 01:24:39,576
But I was the one who was
getting angry with the audience,

1823
01:24:39,642 --> 01:24:40,609
and yelling at the audience,

1824
01:24:40,709 --> 01:24:42,576
and tearing people apart
in the audience.

1825
01:24:42,642 --> 01:24:46,843
♪ He spent his life
a silent sentinel ♪

1826
01:24:46,910 --> 01:24:49,577
♪ For all to fear ♪

1827
01:24:49,643 --> 01:24:52,277
♪ He walks, he talks,
he thinks, he feels ♪

1828
01:24:52,543 --> 01:24:55,643
♪ But no one dare go near ♪

1829
01:24:55,710 --> 01:24:58,677
♪ He takes in all he sees ♪

1830
01:24:58,777 --> 01:25:01,977
♪ Nothing escapes his gaze ♪

1831
01:25:02,077 --> 01:25:03,710
♪ And when he strikes ♪

1832
01:25:03,810 --> 01:25:07,143
♪ He strikes for right,
a glorious sight ♪

1833
01:25:07,243 --> 01:25:13,744
♪ Destroyer, destroyer,
he's in town... ♪

1834
01:25:13,844 --> 01:25:16,678
I equated Jay Jay
with being a preacher.

1835
01:25:16,744 --> 01:25:19,178
He could get people crying
and screaming.

1836
01:25:19,244 --> 01:25:20,911
He had a gift of gab.

1837
01:25:21,011 --> 01:25:22,744
He was like a preacher.

1838
01:25:22,811 --> 01:25:24,511
Dee wasn't so much
like a preacher,

1839
01:25:24,611 --> 01:25:26,511
Dee was like a devil.

1840
01:25:26,578 --> 01:25:28,678
You know. If you didn't,
he would kill you.

1841
01:25:28,778 --> 01:25:31,778
He used to pick on people that
would stand there, you know,

1842
01:25:31,844 --> 01:25:34,211
"Oh I'm not going to get into
Twisted Sister. I'm too cool."

1843
01:25:34,278 --> 01:25:35,544
That was it.

1844
01:25:35,644 --> 01:25:37,711
Dee put his sights
on those people

1845
01:25:37,811 --> 01:25:40,578
and we turned the lights on them
and they got torn to pieces.

1846
01:25:40,678 --> 01:25:42,579
If you were that one guy
who was just standing there.

1847
01:25:42,645 --> 01:25:43,645
- He got you.
- Yeah.

1848
01:25:43,712 --> 01:25:46,012
- Definitely got you.
- We were very diligent

1849
01:25:46,112 --> 01:25:48,979
that we were going out
of-our-minds crazy at all times.

1850
01:25:49,045 --> 01:25:53,012
So Dee didn't catch us yawning,
or like not going crazy once.

1851
01:25:53,079 --> 01:25:55,212
If he looked our direction,
we were like whaa!

1852
01:25:56,512 --> 01:25:57,245
♪ A day will come ♪

1853
01:25:57,512 --> 01:26:02,079
♪ You'll be drawn into
the center of your town ♪

1854
01:26:02,179 --> 01:26:03,845
"Yeah, you back there!

1855
01:26:03,945 --> 01:26:06,112
I wanna see you putting
your hands together!"

1856
01:26:06,212 --> 01:26:09,845
And if they didn't
respond favorably,

1857
01:26:09,945 --> 01:26:12,546
then Dee would invite the rest
of the audience

1858
01:26:12,613 --> 01:26:14,846
to admonish them,
by turning around,

1859
01:26:14,913 --> 01:26:17,746
face that guy
in the back of the room there,

1860
01:26:17,846 --> 01:26:20,513
and at the count of three
we want you to scream,

1861
01:26:20,613 --> 01:26:22,980
"Get the fuck out!"

1862
01:26:23,046 --> 01:26:26,546
"Get the fuck out!
Get the-- and you'd be--

1863
01:26:26,646 --> 01:26:28,046
The sound would be deafening.

1864
01:26:28,113 --> 01:26:30,246
"Get the fuck out! Get the--"

1865
01:26:30,513 --> 01:26:33,213
These people would literally--
you'd see them start to crawl into a corner

1866
01:26:33,513 --> 01:26:35,246
because now everybody's
looking at them,

1867
01:26:35,546 --> 01:26:37,180
the band
is making fun of them,

1868
01:26:37,246 --> 01:26:39,213
I mean after three
or four minutes of it

1869
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:40,714
they would just be crushed.

1870
01:26:41,281 --> 01:26:43,114
You better stay out
of it's fuckin' way.

1871
01:26:43,214 --> 01:26:46,581
It's gonna kick your ass.

1872
01:26:46,647 --> 01:26:48,181
Yeah!

1873
01:27:01,847 --> 01:27:02,781
I was getting everybody

1874
01:27:02,881 --> 01:27:05,214
in a place to react
by threatening them.

1875
01:27:05,514 --> 01:27:06,781
But they were afraid,

1876
01:27:06,881 --> 01:27:09,582
not just of me,
but of the people around them.

1877
01:27:09,682 --> 01:27:11,648
That if you didn't respond,

1878
01:27:11,715 --> 01:27:16,048
that this very intense crowd
might turn on them.

1879
01:27:16,115 --> 01:27:19,148
Sort of a "Day Of The Locust"
kinda moment.

1880
01:27:19,248 --> 01:27:20,948
So people in the audience,

1881
01:27:21,015 --> 01:27:23,115
though I was getting
100% participation,

1882
01:27:23,215 --> 01:27:25,048
their hearts weren't
truly in it.

1883
01:27:25,148 --> 01:27:27,782
They were just scared.

1884
01:27:34,782 --> 01:27:37,082
You had the Mad Hatter
in Stonybrook.

1885
01:27:37,182 --> 01:27:39,283
You had Hammerheads
in Levittown.

1886
01:27:39,549 --> 01:27:41,949
You had Gemini
in Yorktown Heights.

1887
01:27:42,049 --> 01:27:44,683
Then the next level
above that was your Speaks.

1888
01:27:44,783 --> 01:27:47,149
Speaks was the pinnacle 'cause
it held 2,000 people.

1889
01:27:47,216 --> 01:27:48,849
And you'd start doing that.

1890
01:27:49,183 --> 01:27:51,948
When the new Hammerheads opened,
the hierarchy of rooms

1891
01:27:51,949 --> 01:27:54,249
was as follows--
Long Island Hammerheads II,

1892
01:27:54,549 --> 01:27:56,016
3,300 people.

1893
01:27:56,116 --> 01:27:58,783
Glen Island Casino,
3,300 people.

1894
01:27:58,883 --> 01:28:01,149
And then as much
as the Soap Factory could hold,

1895
01:28:01,216 --> 01:28:03,649
2,500 on multiple floors,

1896
01:28:03,749 --> 01:28:05,616
the big daddy
was the Fountain Casino.

1897
01:28:05,716 --> 01:28:07,884
5,000 people.

1898
01:28:08,117 --> 01:28:10,016
If you could headline
these rooms,

1899
01:28:10,017 --> 01:28:11,017
you were the biggest bands.

1900
01:28:11,084 --> 01:28:14,050
So by 1981
we had finally reached our goal,

1901
01:28:14,117 --> 01:28:16,217
and not only were we headlining
each of them,

1902
01:28:16,517 --> 01:28:18,550
we were outdrawing
everybody else.

1903
01:28:18,617 --> 01:28:20,550
We were the number one draw
at the Fountain.

1904
01:28:20,617 --> 01:28:22,084
We were the number one draw
at Glen Island.

1905
01:28:22,184 --> 01:28:24,117
We were the number one draw
at Hammerheads.

1906
01:28:24,184 --> 01:28:27,017
And where did that leave us?

1907
01:28:27,117 --> 01:28:30,017
If we didn't get out,
we were gonna die.

1908
01:28:30,117 --> 01:28:34,184
The bands in this particular
market were making so much money

1909
01:28:34,284 --> 01:28:38,151
that it was very difficult for
them to even try to branch out,

1910
01:28:38,218 --> 01:28:40,785
say go to California,
go to L.A.

1911
01:28:40,851 --> 01:28:42,285
There was no point--
they'd go to L.A.

1912
01:28:42,551 --> 01:28:44,118
They'd probably have
to pay to play.

1913
01:28:44,185 --> 01:28:46,185
Where in this market
they were making three,

1914
01:28:46,251 --> 01:28:48,651
five, seven thousand dollars
a night.

1915
01:28:48,718 --> 01:28:50,985
Twisted was making ten thousand
in some places.

1916
01:28:51,085 --> 01:28:52,051
It was insane!

1917
01:28:52,118 --> 01:28:55,851
You could make so much money--
in some cases-- on this circuit,

1918
01:28:55,951 --> 01:28:59,118
that a lot of people viewed it
as succeeding on this circuit

1919
01:28:59,185 --> 01:29:00,585
was an end to itself.

1920
01:29:00,685 --> 01:29:03,585
I'd have to call it
the "velvet noose."

1921
01:29:03,651 --> 01:29:04,619
Where, you know,

1922
01:29:04,719 --> 01:29:08,552
it would be very comfortable
but you'd still hang at the end.

1923
01:29:08,619 --> 01:29:10,519
You could definitely fall into a situation

1924
01:29:10,619 --> 01:29:12,986
where this is never gonna end,
you know?

1925
01:29:13,052 --> 01:29:14,919
I mean who would have
sat down at a table

1926
01:29:15,019 --> 01:29:17,119
and said, what if
the drinking age changes?

1927
01:29:17,186 --> 01:29:19,152
'Cause for me
that's what happened.

1928
01:29:19,219 --> 01:29:21,952
That killed it. I mean,
when the drinking age came in,

1929
01:29:22,019 --> 01:29:24,519
then you had the younger kids
that might have been into it,

1930
01:29:24,586 --> 01:29:25,986
they couldn't go
to the clubs anymore.

1931
01:29:26,086 --> 01:29:31,719
I know that the chunk of people,
right, from 18 to 21,

1932
01:29:31,819 --> 01:29:33,687
I can't imagine how many

1933
01:29:33,753 --> 01:29:37,220
that is in a three-year span
that cannot come to a nightclub,

1934
01:29:37,287 --> 01:29:40,220
cannot go into a bar,
cannot go into a liquor store.

1935
01:29:40,287 --> 01:29:41,953
I was born and raised
in Brooklyn,

1936
01:29:42,020 --> 01:29:44,287
like I said before,
so I was always 18.

1937
01:29:44,553 --> 01:29:46,720
And at 18 that means you were
drinking at 16.

1938
01:29:46,787 --> 01:29:50,153
So the rock scene started to die
a little bit. It started to die.

1939
01:29:50,220 --> 01:29:52,720
And the clubs couldn't afford
the bands

1940
01:29:52,787 --> 01:29:55,253
like Twisted Sister
or Zebra or Rat Race,

1941
01:29:55,553 --> 01:29:56,987
but they needed those bands.

1942
01:29:57,087 --> 01:29:58,720
Because they couldn't survive
without them.

1943
01:29:58,820 --> 01:30:01,887
We would sit down
and book for six months.

1944
01:30:01,953 --> 01:30:03,754
And we would say
give us Twisted

1945
01:30:03,854 --> 01:30:06,221
every six weeks 'cause we need
to pay the rent.

1946
01:30:06,288 --> 01:30:07,888
So we knew
that Twisted was in there,

1947
01:30:07,988 --> 01:30:09,954
you would have a packed night,
the registers are gonna ring,

1948
01:30:10,021 --> 01:30:11,554
and you're gonna pay
the rent from them!

1949
01:30:19,954 --> 01:30:20,921
The money we made

1950
01:30:20,988 --> 01:30:24,521
was put back consistently
into the gear, into demos,

1951
01:30:24,588 --> 01:30:26,121
and into advertising.

1952
01:30:26,188 --> 01:30:27,288
And the advertising part

1953
01:30:27,554 --> 01:30:29,588
I cannot discount
because the advertising part

1954
01:30:29,688 --> 01:30:31,021
is what gave the world the idea

1955
01:30:31,088 --> 01:30:32,255
that Twisted Sister
was everywhere.

1956
01:30:32,889 --> 01:30:34,555
♪ You're cornered
in the alley way ♪

1957
01:30:34,655 --> 01:30:36,989
♪ You know you're all alone ♪

1958
01:30:37,055 --> 01:30:38,989
♪ You know it's gonna
end this way ♪

1959
01:30:39,089 --> 01:30:41,089
♪ The chill goes
to the bone ♪

1960
01:30:41,155 --> 01:30:43,522
♪ Now here it comes
that glistening light ♪

1961
01:30:43,589 --> 01:30:45,655
♪ It goes into your side ♪

1962
01:30:45,755 --> 01:30:47,755
♪ Blackness comes,
Tonight's the night ♪

1963
01:30:47,855 --> 01:30:49,755
♪ Blade is gonna ride ♪

1964
01:30:49,855 --> 01:30:54,255
♪ 'Cause you're under
the blade, ohh ♪

1965
01:30:54,522 --> 01:30:57,289
♪ You're under the blade... ♪

1966
01:30:57,555 --> 01:31:00,055
We were at the media capital
of the world, New York City,

1967
01:31:00,155 --> 01:31:02,056
and we didn't have
a record deal.

1968
01:31:02,123 --> 01:31:03,956
But we could buy radio time.

1969
01:31:04,056 --> 01:31:07,056
Airplay, which is really what,
in those days,

1970
01:31:07,123 --> 01:31:10,056
completely drove everything
in the music business--

1971
01:31:10,123 --> 01:31:14,256
FM airplay--
was beyond our abilities.

1972
01:31:14,556 --> 01:31:20,123
So what we tried to do to fill
the hole was create hits.

1973
01:31:20,190 --> 01:31:21,623
So what did we do?

1974
01:31:21,723 --> 01:31:23,790
We started buying air time
with the clubs.

1975
01:31:23,890 --> 01:31:29,190
We would buy 30, 40, 50-- 30-second
or one-minute spots on a weekend,

1976
01:31:33,757 --> 01:31:35,557
So what do you get
for your 30 bucks a minute?

1977
01:31:35,657 --> 01:31:37,024
Well you can write
a really cute spot,

1978
01:31:37,091 --> 01:31:38,824
or you can take
your own music and play it

1979
01:31:38,891 --> 01:31:40,657
for the entire minute
and just tag the beginning

1980
01:31:40,724 --> 01:31:42,191
and the end of the commercial

1981
01:31:42,257 --> 01:31:44,591
with Twisted Sister playing Speaks,

1982
01:31:44,657 --> 01:31:46,791
and it sounds like Twisted Sister's
song is on the radio.

1983
01:31:51,024 --> 01:31:52,824
So a lot of people
thought that our songs

1984
01:31:52,891 --> 01:31:55,024
were being played on the radio
when in fact in was just

1985
01:31:55,124 --> 01:31:57,191
the constant drumbeat
of commercials.

1986
01:31:57,291 --> 01:31:59,658
And everybody heard
these commercials.

1987
01:31:59,725 --> 01:32:02,092
When Twisted would,
say, you know, would've played

1988
01:32:02,192 --> 01:32:04,258
"Bad Boys of Rock 'n' Roll"--
whatever it may be,

1989
01:32:04,525 --> 01:32:06,558
the song they played--
people would go crazy

1990
01:32:06,658 --> 01:32:08,858
because it was like a cover song
that they heard on the radio.

1991
01:32:08,958 --> 01:32:10,225
And they did hear
it on the radio!

1992
01:32:28,526 --> 01:32:31,893
We were the poster children
for the unsignable act.

1993
01:32:31,959 --> 01:32:34,193
And people would say all kinds
of derogatory things

1994
01:32:34,259 --> 01:32:36,126
about us based on the circuit
that we played,

1995
01:32:36,193 --> 01:32:37,993
without ever having seen us.

1996
01:32:38,059 --> 01:32:39,559
It was tough getting a deal.

1997
01:32:39,659 --> 01:32:44,693
You know the labels that
we wanted weren't as interested.

1998
01:32:44,793 --> 01:32:47,226
The labels that came
to the table,

1999
01:32:47,293 --> 01:32:51,126
were one's that--
you'd make a deal with,

2000
01:32:51,226 --> 01:32:52,693
you'd shake hands
and everything.

2001
01:32:52,759 --> 01:32:55,093
And then like you'd never hear
from them again.

2002
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:59,860
Now we were lowering
our sights to indies.

2003
01:32:59,927 --> 01:33:03,060
I remember the Handshake deal.
When we got the contracts,

2004
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:05,794
they were basically
indentured servitude.

2005
01:33:05,894 --> 01:33:08,260
Literally, the guy
took everything

2006
01:33:08,527 --> 01:33:12,027
and we would just like, uh,
some sort of salary.

2007
01:33:12,094 --> 01:33:13,660
And we had to say, "No."

2008
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:15,227
There were things
floating around.

2009
01:33:15,294 --> 01:33:18,627
But the Hansa or Handshake deal
did not work out.

2010
01:33:18,694 --> 01:33:21,527
But the deal with this
German company, X, did.

2011
01:33:21,594 --> 01:33:25,194
And this guy loved our stuff
and we negotiated

2012
01:33:25,261 --> 01:33:26,661
an entire record deal with him.

2013
01:33:26,728 --> 01:33:29,895
A whole deal.
And in the spring of '81,

2014
01:33:29,995 --> 01:33:33,761
he was flying from L.A.
to New York back to Germany.

2015
01:33:33,828 --> 01:33:35,261
And we met him at the airport

2016
01:33:35,528 --> 01:33:36,995
and we handed
the final papers to him.

2017
01:33:37,061 --> 01:33:38,028
We gave him the new demos.

2018
01:33:38,095 --> 01:33:40,795
He handed us
the final contracts.

2019
01:33:40,861 --> 01:33:42,895
And we thought
this was our deal.

2020
01:33:42,961 --> 01:33:44,760
And then I get
a phone call the next day.

2021
01:33:44,761 --> 01:33:45,827
My lawyer said,
"Are you sitting down?"

2022
01:33:45,828 --> 01:33:48,594
"Yes, why?" He said, "Well
the record producer collapsed

2023
01:33:48,595 --> 01:33:50,561
on the plane flying to Germany.
He had a heart attack."

2024
01:33:50,661 --> 01:33:51,695
Deal's over. Bang.

2025
01:33:51,761 --> 01:33:54,562
Everybody says how hard
it is to get a deal now.

2026
01:33:54,629 --> 01:33:56,062
It's always been
hard to get a deal.

2027
01:33:56,129 --> 01:33:57,529
There's always been
some reason--

2028
01:33:57,596 --> 01:33:59,596
they're always been something
wrong with the economy.

2029
01:33:59,696 --> 01:34:01,129
This is the way the world is.

2030
01:34:01,229 --> 01:34:03,196
I mean, you know,
do you give up?

2031
01:34:03,262 --> 01:34:04,629
No. You don't give up.

2032
01:34:04,729 --> 01:34:07,296
You keep going till it happens.

2033
01:34:07,596 --> 01:34:08,762
Or you die trying.

2034
01:34:11,896 --> 01:34:14,629
Twisted Sister put out
the "I'll Never Grow Up" single.

2035
01:34:14,696 --> 01:34:16,062
Initially Joe Gerber would

2036
01:34:16,162 --> 01:34:17,829
sell them out
of the trunk of his car,

2037
01:34:17,929 --> 01:34:20,696
you know to local stores
in the Tri-State area,

2038
01:34:20,796 --> 01:34:25,697
where they played, where
they would get sold, at gigs.

2039
01:34:25,763 --> 01:34:29,097
And I was working for
Important Record Distributors.

2040
01:34:29,163 --> 01:34:31,263
And I thought
it was a good idea,

2041
01:34:31,530 --> 01:34:34,930
'cause I loved the band so much
to try to get the distributor

2042
01:34:34,997 --> 01:34:37,897
to sell them
outside the New York metro area.

2043
01:34:37,997 --> 01:34:40,897
So it was like, eh,
this rinky-dink single...

2044
01:34:40,963 --> 01:34:42,930
why are we messing?
Nobody cared.

2045
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:44,930
So, working
for a record distributor

2046
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:48,097
that dealt with import music,
it wasn't just records,

2047
01:34:48,197 --> 01:34:51,263
you'd get all the music papers--
"New Musical Express,"

2048
01:34:51,530 --> 01:34:55,631
"Sounds," "Melody Maker," which
were all weekly music papers.

2049
01:34:55,698 --> 01:34:58,598
"Sounds" was geared
a little more hard rock.

2050
01:34:58,698 --> 01:35:02,198
So I sent some singles over
to "Sounds" magazine,

2051
01:35:02,264 --> 01:35:05,131
wrote a little handwritten
letter, "This is the biggest,

2052
01:35:05,231 --> 01:35:06,864
greatest bar band
in New York.

2053
01:35:06,931 --> 01:35:09,231
Next superstar--"
whatever I wrote.

2054
01:35:09,298 --> 01:35:12,098
Lo and behold,
three or four weeks later,

2055
01:35:12,164 --> 01:35:13,231
Twisted Sister's in the chart.

2056
01:35:13,298 --> 01:35:14,831
Wow! This is great!

2057
01:35:14,898 --> 01:35:16,998
Next week,
they're on the chart again.

2058
01:35:17,064 --> 01:35:19,931
All of a sudden,
at the distributor,

2059
01:35:20,031 --> 01:35:22,599
we weren't selling the singles
to people in America,

2060
01:35:22,665 --> 01:35:24,199
but we were exporting
the singles--

2061
01:35:24,265 --> 01:35:27,299
started exporting them
to Europe, to Britain!

2062
01:35:27,565 --> 01:35:29,065
Because there was
a demand over there.

2063
01:35:29,132 --> 01:35:30,265
What you had in "Sounds,"

2064
01:35:30,565 --> 01:35:32,599
you had the personal playlists
of the writers,

2065
01:35:32,699 --> 01:35:35,665
which every week we'd pick three
songs that we were listening to.

2066
01:35:35,732 --> 01:35:36,999
And they might be three songs

2067
01:35:37,099 --> 01:35:38,798
that were actually released.

2068
01:35:38,799 --> 01:35:40,532
With me as often or not
it was a demo tape.

2069
01:35:40,599 --> 01:35:43,732
Or sometimes you'd even put
a track you'd seen live.

2070
01:35:43,799 --> 01:35:46,699
It wasn't scientific.
It was utterly populist.

2071
01:35:46,765 --> 01:35:47,899
We felt it was our way

2072
01:35:47,965 --> 01:35:49,531
of directly communicating
with the readers.

2073
01:35:49,532 --> 01:35:51,532
And there a lot of readers back
then, you know what I mean?

2074
01:35:51,533 --> 01:35:54,233
"Sounds" at the time was close
to a quarter of a million sales,

2075
01:35:54,533 --> 01:35:56,566
so the readership
was probably four times that.

2076
01:35:56,666 --> 01:35:59,233
So even if one in ten of them
took notice of the playlist,

2077
01:35:59,533 --> 01:36:01,933
that's still enough people to go
out and make something happen.

2078
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:06,800
We get a phone call saying that
"Sounds" magazine in England,

2079
01:36:06,866 --> 01:36:09,600
has this playlist,

2080
01:36:09,700 --> 01:36:13,100
and one of the writers
has put "Under The Blade"

2081
01:36:13,166 --> 01:36:16,866
as his number one song
on his personal playlist.

2082
01:36:16,966 --> 01:36:18,066
In a real newspaper,

2083
01:36:18,166 --> 01:36:20,901
in a music paper
that's not a Long Island paper!

2084
01:36:20,967 --> 01:36:22,901
It's actually not
even an American paper!

2085
01:36:22,967 --> 01:36:24,034
It's an English paper!

2086
01:36:24,101 --> 01:36:26,534
They don't know us. They don't
know anything about us.

2087
01:36:26,601 --> 01:36:27,667
Nothing.

2088
01:36:27,767 --> 01:36:29,934
And we contact "Sounds"

2089
01:36:30,001 --> 01:36:32,801
and they send a writer,
Garry Bushell.

2090
01:36:32,901 --> 01:36:35,734
So I'd gone down
to some godforsaken hole in,

2091
01:36:35,834 --> 01:36:38,634
um, Westchester--
Westchester state.

2092
01:36:38,701 --> 01:36:40,101
And it was awesome!

2093
01:36:40,167 --> 01:36:42,567
Seeing Twisted Sister
and their audience,

2094
01:36:42,634 --> 01:36:44,701
in what we'd have called
a spit and sawdust pub,

2095
01:36:44,767 --> 01:36:46,267
like a rough, rough old club.

2096
01:36:46,534 --> 01:36:48,802
And they were
like proper wild people--

2097
01:36:48,868 --> 01:36:50,735
the audience--
they were really going for it.

2098
01:36:50,835 --> 01:36:53,535
Twisted Sister,
I mean they had the glam look,

2099
01:36:53,635 --> 01:36:55,802
but because they were
so big and so butch,

2100
01:36:55,902 --> 01:36:57,768
they looked
like dockers in drag.

2101
01:36:57,868 --> 01:36:59,068
They weren't like
pretty boys at all.

2102
01:36:59,168 --> 01:37:01,802
It was like Cinderella's ugly
sisters having a convention.

2103
01:37:01,868 --> 01:37:02,968
It was shocking!

2104
01:37:03,068 --> 01:37:04,902
And he writes
this unbelievable story

2105
01:37:04,968 --> 01:37:06,568
called "Sister Sledgehammer."

2106
01:37:06,668 --> 01:37:09,802
And, you know, talk about
wanting to get pulled off this iceberg--

2107
01:37:09,868 --> 01:37:11,568
this thing gets published
in '81,

2108
01:37:11,635 --> 01:37:13,935
I can't believe it,
what could possibly happen?

2109
01:37:14,002 --> 01:37:17,102
The next thing you hear is
that this label called Secret Records--

2110
01:37:17,169 --> 01:37:18,936
a punk label--
wants to sign the band.

2111
01:37:19,003 --> 01:37:21,269
Our manager tells us
he's flying in

2112
01:37:21,536 --> 01:37:24,936
to see us at
the Mid-Hudson Civic Center.

2113
01:37:25,036 --> 01:37:27,903
We're headlining and, um,
you know?

2114
01:37:28,003 --> 01:37:29,869
This is how cynical we are.

2115
01:37:29,936 --> 01:37:33,303
I said, the guy's plane'll
crash before it lands.

2116
01:37:33,569 --> 01:37:34,903
But even if it lands,

2117
01:37:34,969 --> 01:37:37,069
he'll die in a car crash
on the way up to the gig.

2118
01:37:37,136 --> 01:37:40,703
But even if he does get there,
the P.A. will fall on his head.

2119
01:37:40,803 --> 01:37:42,603
But even if we're great,

2120
01:37:42,703 --> 01:37:44,869
he will die on the ride back
to the airport.

2121
01:37:44,969 --> 01:37:45,903
But even if he lives,

2122
01:37:45,969 --> 01:37:49,237
he will die when the plane
crashes into the sea

2123
01:37:49,304 --> 01:37:51,670
when the I.R.A. bomb
blows it up.

2124
01:37:51,737 --> 01:37:54,204
I took my girlfriend, and we'd
been to a party the night before

2125
01:37:54,270 --> 01:37:55,737
and we hadn't slept.

2126
01:37:55,804 --> 01:37:59,704
And we caught a redeye
out there and didn't sleep.

2127
01:37:59,770 --> 01:38:02,837
And we got there
and we were just a mess.

2128
01:38:02,904 --> 01:38:05,837
And uh, Mark picked us up
and, uh,

2129
01:38:05,904 --> 01:38:07,670
with all the best will
in the world,

2130
01:38:07,770 --> 01:38:10,537
Mark can talk Olympic level.

2131
01:38:10,604 --> 01:38:15,004
And he just talked my ear off
all the way out to Poughkeepsie.

2132
01:38:15,104 --> 01:38:16,571
And Poughkeepsie--

2133
01:38:16,671 --> 01:38:18,105
I'd never even heard
of Poughkeepsie,

2134
01:38:18,205 --> 01:38:19,771
and it's in the middle
of nowhere

2135
01:38:19,838 --> 01:38:21,705
and there was thick snow.

2136
01:38:21,805 --> 01:38:24,005
I was just hallucinating,
I was so tired.

2137
01:38:24,105 --> 01:38:29,005
And, uh, we got there
and the venue was...huge.

2138
01:38:29,105 --> 01:38:31,738
I was kind of expecting
a small club.

2139
01:38:31,805 --> 01:38:33,771
And it was just like a big hall.

2140
01:38:33,838 --> 01:38:37,571
And we get in there and there
was a couple of thousand people.

2141
01:38:37,638 --> 01:38:39,005
And I'm thinking,
"This is crazy!"

2142
01:38:39,071 --> 01:38:41,605
This is a band who haven't
got a record deal,

2143
01:38:41,671 --> 01:38:43,705
how are they doing this?

2144
01:38:46,139 --> 01:38:48,706
And the reaction
from the kids was spectacular.

2145
01:38:48,772 --> 01:38:51,239
I mean they were just
going crazy.

2146
01:38:51,539 --> 01:38:55,872
So, uh, I looked across at my
girlfriend and she's loving it.

2147
01:38:55,972 --> 01:38:58,906
And I'm thinking,
"We can do something with this.

2148
01:38:59,006 --> 01:39:00,072
This is brilliant."

2149
01:39:03,272 --> 01:39:06,172
At the end of the show
I went backstage to see the band

2150
01:39:06,239 --> 01:39:09,672
and, uh, they were sitting
around a table.

2151
01:39:09,772 --> 01:39:11,206
And they'd got more money
on this table

2152
01:39:11,306 --> 01:39:12,539
than I'd ever seen in my life.

2153
01:39:12,639 --> 01:39:15,007
In cash, piles of it
from the merchandising.

2154
01:39:15,073 --> 01:39:17,607
And all the merchandising
had arrived in a big lorry,

2155
01:39:17,673 --> 01:39:19,307
and it was going
out completely empty,

2156
01:39:19,573 --> 01:39:21,640
I think there was a torn poster
in the bottom.

2157
01:39:21,707 --> 01:39:25,307
And, uh, and I'm looking
at this thinking,

2158
01:39:25,573 --> 01:39:27,673
"Crap! I'm never going to be
able to afford this band!"

2159
01:39:27,740 --> 01:39:29,107
And one of them
turned round and said,

2160
01:39:29,173 --> 01:39:31,940
"Hey man, you gotta sign us.
We're really cheap!"

2161
01:39:32,007 --> 01:39:35,273
So he shows up. He loves
the band. He says the band,

2162
01:39:35,540 --> 01:39:37,540
he wants to sign us.
We don't react at all.

2163
01:39:37,607 --> 01:39:41,007
We were just
sort of like, eh, okay.

2164
01:39:41,073 --> 01:39:43,841
It was like, you know,
I think Martin Hooker,

2165
01:39:43,908 --> 01:39:45,241
his name was, he was like,

2166
01:39:45,308 --> 01:39:47,108
"I just said
I want to sign the band."

2167
01:39:47,208 --> 01:39:48,808
And Mark Puma was like,

2168
01:39:48,908 --> 01:39:51,141
"Yeah, they've kinda heard
this a few times before.

2169
01:39:51,208 --> 01:39:53,174
"Don't worry,
they'll perk up

2170
01:39:53,241 --> 01:39:54,774
when they actually are
on the plane."

2171
01:40:02,574 --> 01:40:04,008
Come on, baby!

2172
01:40:04,074 --> 01:40:06,274
It's time to tear it loose!

2173
01:40:09,674 --> 01:40:12,642
♪ There ain't no way I'm gonna
wait for Saturday night ♪

2174
01:40:12,709 --> 01:40:15,175
♪ I worked all day, I slaved
away, I gotta set it right ♪

2175
01:40:15,242 --> 01:40:17,175
♪ Gonna hit the streets,
cruise around ♪

2176
01:40:17,275 --> 01:40:18,575
♪ I gotta find some action ♪

2177
01:40:18,642 --> 01:40:22,042
♪ Ain't gonna stop until I drop
or get some satisfaction ♪

2178
01:40:22,109 --> 01:40:23,575
Unfortunately there were
some problems

2179
01:40:23,675 --> 01:40:26,875
with our drummer Tony Petrie,
and, uh...

2180
01:40:28,242 --> 01:40:29,742
he left the band.

2181
01:40:29,842 --> 01:40:32,142
He was asked to leave the band
in other words.

2182
01:40:32,242 --> 01:40:35,575
There was a lot of things kinda
leading up to it with violence,

2183
01:40:35,675 --> 01:40:38,675
just kinda like aggressive
and violent behavior, you know.

2184
01:40:38,742 --> 01:40:40,610
It was hard on everybody.

2185
01:40:40,676 --> 01:40:44,176
♪ Gonna tear it loose,
tear it loose ♪

2186
01:40:44,276 --> 01:40:46,910
We went through
a series of drummers.

2187
01:40:46,976 --> 01:40:48,310
We had Joey Brighton

2188
01:40:48,576 --> 01:40:51,910
and then we had Ritchie Teeter
fill in temporarily

2189
01:40:51,976 --> 01:40:53,043
till we found somebody.

2190
01:41:03,143 --> 01:41:05,543
Everybody that we tried
was competent, you know?

2191
01:41:05,610 --> 01:41:10,044
Good players, but it just--
for some reason-- wasn't gelling,

2192
01:41:10,144 --> 01:41:12,877
And then the minute
we tried A.J. Pero,

2193
01:41:12,977 --> 01:41:13,877
I knew instantly.

2194
01:41:13,977 --> 01:41:16,977
I looked at Dee and he looked at
me, and we went like, "Oh yeah!"

2195
01:41:17,044 --> 01:41:18,177
Everybody!

2196
01:41:18,277 --> 01:41:21,277
On the drums, A.J. Pero!

2197
01:41:22,644 --> 01:41:24,111
It was like I was
the missing link.

2198
01:41:24,177 --> 01:41:26,577
I was what they needed.
I was the power.

2199
01:41:26,644 --> 01:41:29,077
I was the extra charge,
you know?

2200
01:41:29,144 --> 01:41:30,611
Load 'em, boom!

2201
01:41:31,677 --> 01:41:32,811
We sign the deal.

2202
01:41:32,911 --> 01:41:36,977
We do our farewell concert
in the New York area in June.

2203
01:41:37,077 --> 01:41:39,012
Six years we've been working,

2204
01:41:39,112 --> 01:41:41,712
playing, busting our ass,

2205
01:41:41,778 --> 01:41:45,012
playing for every sick
motherfucker on Long Island,

2206
01:41:45,078 --> 01:41:47,012
New York, New Jersey,
Connecticut!

2207
01:41:47,112 --> 01:41:51,245
Working our balls off
to get us a record deal

2208
01:41:51,312 --> 01:41:54,045
so we could become
what we were meant to be--

2209
01:41:54,145 --> 01:41:56,278
the biggest, heaviest,

2210
01:41:56,545 --> 01:42:00,078
most kick-ass rock 'n' roll band
in the world!

2211
01:42:02,112 --> 01:42:05,278
And now the time has come.

2212
01:42:05,545 --> 01:42:09,979
This is our last performance
before we leave Friday night

2213
01:42:10,046 --> 01:42:12,846
to fly to England
to record our first album.

2214
01:42:12,913 --> 01:42:15,579
And you all made it possible,
that's right!

2215
01:42:19,646 --> 01:42:22,313
Making "Under The Blade"
for Secret Records in England.

2216
01:42:22,613 --> 01:42:25,879
We recorded it on a farm
down in southern England

2217
01:42:25,946 --> 01:42:27,913
in a small town called Battle.

2218
01:42:28,013 --> 01:42:30,679
We stayed in a 16th century hotel

2219
01:42:30,779 --> 01:42:35,879
that was haunted and recorded
most of the album in a barn.

2220
01:42:35,946 --> 01:42:40,214
Our baffles to keep the sound in
were bales of hay.

2221
01:42:40,314 --> 01:42:42,580
Okay? Chickens running around.

2222
01:42:42,647 --> 01:42:46,647
They say that when I played
my bass for that album,

2223
01:42:46,714 --> 01:42:50,280
the hens laid the most eggs
and the cows

2224
01:42:50,547 --> 01:42:52,147
gave the most milk
that they ever did.

2225
01:42:52,214 --> 01:42:54,147
It was good fun
just being away.

2226
01:42:54,214 --> 01:42:56,547
Sometimes when you're away
and recording,

2227
01:42:56,614 --> 01:42:58,747
that's all you're there to do.

2228
01:42:58,814 --> 01:43:00,247
So there's no distractions,

2229
01:43:00,314 --> 01:43:02,247
you know, you can't get a call
from home like,

2230
01:43:02,314 --> 01:43:04,680
"Listen, the faucet
broke can you come out and--"

2231
01:43:04,780 --> 01:43:06,715
Deal with it!

2232
01:43:06,781 --> 01:43:09,015
You know, deal with it.
Like, "Oh your brother hit me!"

2233
01:43:09,081 --> 01:43:12,015
You know like... I... you know,
it's like,

2234
01:43:12,081 --> 01:43:13,015
"I can't. I'm in England."

2235
01:43:18,215 --> 01:43:21,248
Motorhead was headlining
a festival in Wales,

2236
01:43:21,315 --> 01:43:22,981
the Wrexham Festival.

2237
01:43:23,081 --> 01:43:25,981
And we were down,
"From USA Twisted Sister."

2238
01:43:26,048 --> 01:43:28,815
And it was our first gig
east of the Hamptons.

2239
01:43:28,881 --> 01:43:32,948
And we were going on, I don't
know, probably about noon?

2240
01:43:33,048 --> 01:43:37,616
Beyond that, makeup bands
were completely out of vogue.

2241
01:43:37,682 --> 01:43:42,882
There was not just a resistance,
but there was hatred for glam bands.

2242
01:43:42,949 --> 01:43:45,216
And here's Twisted Sister--
full makeup.

2243
01:43:45,282 --> 01:43:47,916
KISS had taken their makeup off,
mind you, at this point.

2244
01:43:47,982 --> 01:43:50,982
This is-- nobody--
there is no Motley Crue.

2245
01:43:51,049 --> 01:43:57,216
This is Twisted Sister carrying
the torch for glitter rock...

2246
01:43:57,282 --> 01:44:01,282
going on before Motorhead,
one of the nastiest,

2247
01:44:01,582 --> 01:44:03,150
ugliest looking bands
in the world,

2248
01:44:03,250 --> 01:44:04,750
the joke would be
that you'd rather have

2249
01:44:04,850 --> 01:44:07,683
sex with the guys in their crowd
than the girls--

2250
01:44:07,783 --> 01:44:09,617
they were way prettier.

2251
01:44:09,683 --> 01:44:10,950
And that doesn't mean
they're pretty.

2252
01:44:11,050 --> 01:44:12,750
And they're tough.

2253
01:44:12,817 --> 01:44:14,250
And they're angry.

2254
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:18,583
Uh, and we weren't really sure

2255
01:44:18,683 --> 01:44:20,783
how it was gonna go over all
of a sudden.

2256
01:44:20,850 --> 01:44:24,850
The band was terrified--
and...

2257
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:26,250
to the point where there
was discussion

2258
01:44:26,317 --> 01:44:30,083
on taking the make-up
and costumes off.

2259
01:44:30,150 --> 01:44:33,718
And, uh, the guys wanted
to go on in street clothes.

2260
01:44:33,784 --> 01:44:37,184
And I said
"I am not doing this.

2261
01:44:37,284 --> 01:44:39,018
We have worn this
make-up and costumes

2262
01:44:39,084 --> 01:44:41,684
for seven years now,
six and a half years?"

2263
01:44:41,784 --> 01:44:44,884
I said, "We're through--
I've fought for this, we have...

2264
01:44:44,951 --> 01:44:48,251
I'm as scared as anyone
else but I'm not--

2265
01:44:48,551 --> 01:44:50,951
I didn't come this
far to back down."

2266
01:44:51,751 --> 01:44:54,718
I always joked that Lemmy knew
the smell of human excrement.

2267
01:44:54,818 --> 01:44:56,851
As he walked past
our dressing room door

2268
01:44:56,918 --> 01:45:00,184
he smelled people
shitting in their pants.

2269
01:45:00,251 --> 01:45:03,252
And he came in and said,
"I'll bring you on."

2270
01:45:03,552 --> 01:45:04,619
Nobody knew who we were.

2271
01:45:04,719 --> 01:45:06,152
And all of a sudden
we're on stage

2272
01:45:06,219 --> 01:45:07,752
and it was like
"Night Of The Living Dead."

2273
01:45:07,819 --> 01:45:11,219
I mean, people that were sitting
get up, and they're looking,

2274
01:45:11,285 --> 01:45:13,819
and they're walking
towards us like...

2275
01:45:13,919 --> 01:45:15,019
I swear you could see

2276
01:45:15,085 --> 01:45:17,185
the people's bottles going back
like this,

2277
01:45:17,285 --> 01:45:19,052
they were ready
to start throwing shit,

2278
01:45:19,119 --> 01:45:21,985
and Lemmy stepped out and said--

2279
01:45:25,819 --> 01:45:27,685
I'm translating, 'cause you
can't understand Lemmy,

2280
01:45:27,752 --> 01:45:29,752
but "These are some friends
of mine,

2281
01:45:29,852 --> 01:45:32,653
give them a listen.
From America, give them a listen."

2282
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:34,986
And that just gave us
space enough

2283
01:45:35,053 --> 01:45:38,753
to go out there
and do what we did.

2284
01:45:38,820 --> 01:45:41,820
And we just
tore it the fuck up.

2285
01:45:42,953 --> 01:45:44,320
Blew everybody away.

2286
01:45:44,620 --> 01:45:47,286
It was one
of the great ovations of...

2287
01:45:47,553 --> 01:45:48,886
my life.

2288
01:45:48,953 --> 01:45:50,620
After we went off stage,

2289
01:45:50,686 --> 01:45:52,220
and we went back
into the dressing room,

2290
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:53,953
which was a locker,

2291
01:45:54,020 --> 01:45:56,853
and ten minutes
after we were offstage,

2292
01:45:56,953 --> 01:45:58,820
someone said "Listen."

2293
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:00,921
And you could hear the crowd

2294
01:46:00,987 --> 01:46:05,254
still chanting,
"Twisted... Sister...

2295
01:46:05,321 --> 01:46:08,754
Twisted... Sister...

2296
01:46:08,854 --> 01:46:09,621
Twisted..."

2297
01:46:09,654 --> 01:46:11,320
I gave up on the idea
of wanting to be a rockstar

2298
01:46:11,321 --> 01:46:13,754
around the time I heard
the first Van Halen record,

2299
01:46:13,854 --> 01:46:17,254
and decided I needed
to switch sides of the desk.

2300
01:46:17,321 --> 01:46:20,321
So I figured I needed
to find a band.

2301
01:46:20,621 --> 01:46:23,687
So I discovered Zebra
through a remarkable string

2302
01:46:23,787 --> 01:46:26,087
of synchronicities
and all sorts of other stuff.

2303
01:46:26,187 --> 01:46:28,222
And Randy Jackson,
who was the singer from Zebra,

2304
01:46:28,288 --> 01:46:29,622
says to me one day he goes,

2305
01:46:29,688 --> 01:46:31,788
"Flom, you gotta
see Twisted Sister."

2306
01:46:31,855 --> 01:46:33,655
He says, "They're the best
live band in the world.

2307
01:46:33,722 --> 01:46:37,122
We can't touch them,
nobody can."

2308
01:46:37,188 --> 01:46:39,022
So I said,
"Well, great I wanna see them."

2309
01:46:39,122 --> 01:46:41,022
He said, "Well we're opening
for them on Wednesday,

2310
01:46:41,122 --> 01:46:43,755
at the Mid-Hudson Civic Center
in Poughkeepsie."

2311
01:46:43,855 --> 01:46:47,088
The Mid-Hudson Civic Center
holds 3,000 people.

2312
01:46:47,155 --> 01:46:48,955
I was like, first of all it's
weird that Zebra's opening

2313
01:46:49,022 --> 01:46:50,788
when Zebra's signed
and Twisted Sister is not,

2314
01:46:50,888 --> 01:46:52,822
and second of all
that's a big place.

2315
01:46:52,922 --> 01:46:56,155
So I drove up there
on a Wednesday.

2316
01:46:56,222 --> 01:46:59,123
Zebra played,
polite applause.

2317
01:46:59,189 --> 01:47:01,689
And when Twisted Sister
took the stage,

2318
01:47:01,756 --> 01:47:03,623
these 3,000 people
were erupting.

2319
01:47:06,923 --> 01:47:08,089
And Dee gets up
onstage and he says,

2320
01:47:08,156 --> 01:47:11,723
"Alright you New York
motherfuckers!"

2321
01:47:11,823 --> 01:47:14,589
He says, "We just came back
from bloody fucking England

2322
01:47:14,689 --> 01:47:16,256
and we're sick and fucking
tired of hearing those limeys

2323
01:47:16,323 --> 01:47:18,156
telling us
how good we are!"

2324
01:47:18,256 --> 01:47:21,289
He says, "What do you New York
motherfuckers have to say?!"

2325
01:47:21,589 --> 01:47:26,057
And all 3,000 kids go,
"Twisted Fucking Sister!"

2326
01:47:26,157 --> 01:47:29,224
And I was like, that's it.
I'm done. I don't care.

2327
01:47:29,324 --> 01:47:32,890
That's it.
This is religion.

2328
01:47:32,957 --> 01:47:34,324
And it was.

2329
01:47:34,590 --> 01:47:38,555
And they played
and I just was out of my mind,

2330
01:47:38,557 --> 01:47:40,089
I couldn't wait to get
to the office the next day

2331
01:47:40,090 --> 01:47:41,690
to tell everybody
what I'd seen.

2332
01:47:42,657 --> 01:47:44,057
The reaction was,
"You need sleep."

2333
01:47:44,124 --> 01:47:46,824
And uh, I did, but...

2334
01:47:46,890 --> 01:47:49,590
"This band is a joke
and everybody

2335
01:47:49,690 --> 01:47:51,824
in the Industry knows
about them. They're idiots.

2336
01:47:51,890 --> 01:47:54,958
They dress in girls clothes
and it's not anything

2337
01:47:55,025 --> 01:47:57,025
you need to be
involving yourself with."

2338
01:47:57,091 --> 01:48:00,991
And my thought was, I should
go see them again tonight

2339
01:48:01,058 --> 01:48:02,791
at the Fountain Casino
in New Jersey,

2340
01:48:02,891 --> 01:48:05,191
which was almost two hours
in the other direction.

2341
01:48:05,258 --> 01:48:09,591
So sleep deprived
and probably pretty messed up,

2342
01:48:09,691 --> 01:48:11,125
I wound up down
at the Fountain Casino.

2343
01:48:11,225 --> 01:48:12,691
And it was the same thing.

2344
01:48:12,758 --> 01:48:15,291
And I just went,
this is as real as it can be!

2345
01:48:15,591 --> 01:48:18,125
The kids are giving
me the road map.

2346
01:48:18,191 --> 01:48:19,891
I loved it anyway,

2347
01:48:19,991 --> 01:48:22,125
I loved their music,
but I didn't care if I loved it

2348
01:48:22,191 --> 01:48:24,192
because I saw the excitement
with the kids.

2349
01:48:24,292 --> 01:48:26,992
And I went,
I can market this. This works.

2350
01:48:27,059 --> 01:48:29,059
There's no question about it.

2351
01:48:29,159 --> 01:48:31,926
So back I went to the office

2352
01:48:32,026 --> 01:48:34,559
to be met with
the same response.

2353
01:48:34,659 --> 01:48:36,292
And tepid would be
too nice of a word.

2354
01:48:36,559 --> 01:48:38,692
The response was,
"Get the fuck out of here!

2355
01:48:38,792 --> 01:48:41,092
We're not signing this.
It's shit!"

2356
01:48:43,826 --> 01:48:44,959
So it was part of the idea

2357
01:48:45,026 --> 01:48:47,792
to get them in front
of as many people as possible.

2358
01:48:47,859 --> 01:48:50,726
We managed to get them
on the Reading Festival,

2359
01:48:50,826 --> 01:48:54,960
which was the great gig for
rock bands in those days,

2360
01:48:55,027 --> 01:48:58,027
I mean you have 70 or 80,000
people in one hit.

2361
01:48:58,093 --> 01:48:59,827
Good evening!

2362
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:04,893
Welcome to our show!

2363
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:11,093
The Reading Festival was
legendary for the fans pelting.

2364
01:49:11,193 --> 01:49:13,127
People would throw stuff
at the bands.

2365
01:49:13,193 --> 01:49:15,893
This one's called
"Shoot 'Em Down!"

2366
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:18,193
There was 40,000 people
at Reading.

2367
01:49:18,260 --> 01:49:19,960
There was 10,000 people
that liked you

2368
01:49:20,027 --> 01:49:21,193
and 30,000 that didn't.

2369
01:49:21,260 --> 01:49:22,594
So every band that went on

2370
01:49:22,694 --> 01:49:25,194
had their 10,000 and the 30,000
that didn't.

2371
01:49:25,261 --> 01:49:26,794
And they all had fruit.

2372
01:49:28,328 --> 01:49:29,961
You know it was
peaches and pears

2373
01:49:30,028 --> 01:49:34,894
and apples and bananas
and Kotex and bottles of piss!

2374
01:49:34,994 --> 01:49:37,294
And, I mean, not small bottles,
big fucking bottles!

2375
01:49:37,594 --> 01:49:38,994
And just enough cap,

2376
01:49:39,061 --> 01:49:42,828
so it went end over end
till it hit something, and bang!

2377
01:49:42,928 --> 01:49:48,261
There was just waves of stuff
coming over. And Dee says,

2378
01:49:48,561 --> 01:49:50,728
"Whoa! Stop, stop!"

2379
01:49:50,828 --> 01:49:52,629
Walked to the front and said...

2380
01:49:52,695 --> 01:49:59,595
There's some wimps
throwing things at us.

2381
01:49:59,695 --> 01:50:00,595
Pussies.

2382
01:50:00,695 --> 01:50:02,929
I was furious
at the stuff being thrown.

2383
01:50:02,995 --> 01:50:06,562
I was mad.
I was dead serious and I said.

2384
01:50:06,629 --> 01:50:10,695
All the people who wanna throw
something at Twisted Sister,

2385
01:50:10,762 --> 01:50:14,929
after the show,
meet us back there-- all of you,

2386
01:50:15,029 --> 01:50:19,996
I don't care-- and then you can
tell us we suck to our face.

2387
01:50:20,063 --> 01:50:22,630
You can try and throw something
at my face.

2388
01:50:22,696 --> 01:50:24,096
But don't be a wimp.

2389
01:50:24,196 --> 01:50:25,796
Don't throw something
and hit people

2390
01:50:25,863 --> 01:50:27,663
down here in the front, okay?

2391
01:50:27,730 --> 01:50:29,030
Just come on down!

2392
01:50:29,130 --> 01:50:31,230
We're ready!
Are you ready?!

2393
01:50:33,130 --> 01:50:35,063
And it completely changed
the whole thing.

2394
01:50:35,130 --> 01:50:37,830
There was no throwing after
that, people were cheering.

2395
01:50:37,896 --> 01:50:39,763
And they ended up
stealing the whole show.

2396
01:50:44,263 --> 01:50:45,763
I went over to the side
of the stage

2397
01:50:45,830 --> 01:50:48,964
to see if anybody-- just in case
anybody wanted to fight me.

2398
01:50:49,064 --> 01:50:50,664
So I went over and there was no.

2399
01:50:50,731 --> 01:50:52,597
Just fans,
"We're with you, Dee!"

2400
01:50:52,664 --> 01:50:55,831
Everyone was ready
for a dust-up but nobody--

2401
01:50:55,897 --> 01:50:57,697
nobody was--
there was no takers.

2402
01:50:57,797 --> 01:50:59,331
We had won the day.

2403
01:51:01,264 --> 01:51:03,064
So we're sitting back there
and just marveling

2404
01:51:03,131 --> 01:51:05,264
about the amount of stuff
that was thrown at the band.

2405
01:51:05,564 --> 01:51:07,264
We'd never experienced
that before.

2406
01:51:07,331 --> 01:51:10,597
We had this big Scottish guy
working for us and he goes like,

2407
01:51:10,697 --> 01:51:12,631
I can't believe that someone threw a shite!

2408
01:51:12,731 --> 01:51:14,931
And we go like--
Dee said what?

2409
01:51:15,031 --> 01:51:17,097
I can't believe
that someone threw a shite!

2410
01:51:17,164 --> 01:51:18,732
"A shite?"

2411
01:51:18,798 --> 01:51:23,065
He goes, "A shit! Somebody
threw a shit on the stage!"

2412
01:51:23,132 --> 01:51:25,065
As hate filled as I am,

2413
01:51:25,132 --> 01:51:27,965
could I actually pick up
a human shit and throw it?

2414
01:51:28,065 --> 01:51:29,998
And then,
where do you get it?

2415
01:51:30,098 --> 01:51:32,098
Did someone make it?
Is it yours?

2416
01:51:32,165 --> 01:51:34,165
Is it--
do you save it for later?

2417
01:51:34,232 --> 01:51:36,165
Do you buy it at the--
is there a shite stand,

2418
01:51:36,265 --> 01:51:37,765
you know, or a shit stand?

2419
01:51:37,865 --> 01:51:40,898
Can I have some shit I can hurl
at the band?

2420
01:51:40,998 --> 01:51:43,765
Steamy hot please,
with some chili on top.

2421
01:51:43,865 --> 01:51:46,698
I'm just trying to picture the--
what--

2422
01:51:46,765 --> 01:51:50,099
how this got to the point
to where it's actually on the stage.

2423
01:51:50,166 --> 01:51:52,333
But yes, somebody threw
human shit at the band.

2424
01:51:52,633 --> 01:51:55,666
That's-- that's-- you really
gotta hate a band to do that.

2425
01:51:59,666 --> 01:52:02,266
When we came back,
it was a triumphant return,

2426
01:52:02,566 --> 01:52:04,599
and, uh, played for I think
it was a couple of months

2427
01:52:04,699 --> 01:52:05,999
when we were
supposed to go back

2428
01:52:06,099 --> 01:52:12,099
and release the record there
and have a mini-tour.

2429
01:52:12,166 --> 01:52:14,766
We planned to bring them over
to do another big tour

2430
01:52:14,866 --> 01:52:19,100
and really get stuck in
with lots of consecutive dates

2431
01:52:19,167 --> 01:52:23,334
that would get
to a massive audience, and...

2432
01:52:23,634 --> 01:52:26,700
We'd just done a deal
with Virgin

2433
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:29,167
so that distribution
was gonna be great.

2434
01:52:29,234 --> 01:52:30,200
We'd got a huge advance.

2435
01:52:30,267 --> 01:52:32,967
So there was a lot of money
in the bank ready to do it all.

2436
01:52:33,067 --> 01:52:35,267
Basically we come home,
and we take out more ads.

2437
01:52:35,567 --> 01:52:36,767
Twisted Sister Big Tour
of Europe.

2438
01:52:36,834 --> 01:52:37,900
Thank you so much.
Goodbye, New York.

2439
01:52:37,967 --> 01:52:39,600
It's been great,
blah blah blah.

2440
01:52:39,700 --> 01:52:43,000
And we say, "Farewell, Long Island.
Farewell, New Jersey.

2441
01:52:43,067 --> 01:52:45,135
Thank you for 10 amazing years.

2442
01:52:45,235 --> 01:52:46,868
We're off to see the wizard.

2443
01:52:46,935 --> 01:52:48,268
We're outta here.

2444
01:52:48,335 --> 01:52:50,835
Thank you, goodnight.

2445
01:52:50,901 --> 01:52:52,135
'Cause this is it!

2446
01:52:52,201 --> 01:52:53,901
We're goin'!

2447
01:52:53,968 --> 01:52:56,201
We're goin' to England.

2448
01:52:56,301 --> 01:52:58,801
And as you send us off
into the wild blue yonder,

2449
01:52:58,901 --> 01:53:02,235
let us know how you feel
about rock 'n' roll.

2450
01:53:04,001 --> 01:53:05,135
Now get ready!

2451
01:53:06,835 --> 01:53:08,001
Are you ready?

2452
01:53:09,601 --> 01:53:11,601
Are you ready?!

2453
01:53:11,701 --> 01:53:13,301
When we released the record

2454
01:53:13,568 --> 01:53:15,069
it went straight
into the national chart.

2455
01:53:15,136 --> 01:53:16,969
It was top 75 first week.

2456
01:53:17,036 --> 01:53:21,169
And to do that out of the box,
that's not easy.

2457
01:53:21,269 --> 01:53:24,636
And particularly for a metal
record in those days.

2458
01:53:24,736 --> 01:53:28,769
Get ready to leave
for Europe, September of '82.

2459
01:53:28,836 --> 01:53:30,569
And my lawyer calls me.

2460
01:53:30,636 --> 01:53:31,702
"You sitting down?"

2461
01:53:31,769 --> 01:53:34,069
"Yeah."

2462
01:53:34,136 --> 01:53:36,069
"Secret Records went bankrupt."

2463
01:53:36,136 --> 01:53:37,269
"You're kidding."

2464
01:53:37,336 --> 01:53:38,702
"No. The album came out

2465
01:53:38,802 --> 01:53:40,602
and the label went
bankrupt the next day."

2466
01:53:40,669 --> 01:53:42,937
It just disappeared overnight.

2467
01:53:43,003 --> 01:53:45,803
My partner disappeared
with the money,

2468
01:53:45,870 --> 01:53:48,037
and along with it went
my company.

2469
01:53:48,103 --> 01:53:51,570
And I was left with-- uh,

2470
01:53:51,637 --> 01:53:56,003
less than nothing and, uh,
the band were left with no tour.

2471
01:53:57,270 --> 01:54:00,303
So we can't play

2472
01:54:00,570 --> 01:54:02,737
because we've now
told everybody we're on tour.

2473
01:54:02,803 --> 01:54:04,303
So we can't play.

2474
01:54:04,603 --> 01:54:07,870
So we don't. We hide out in our
homes for, like, two months.

2475
01:54:07,937 --> 01:54:11,170
That was a long, cold winter.

2476
01:54:13,004 --> 01:54:15,571
Somewhere around
the 50th time

2477
01:54:15,638 --> 01:54:17,838
I was told to shut up
about Twisted Sister.

2478
01:54:17,938 --> 01:54:20,304
I was called into the office
of the president

2479
01:54:20,571 --> 01:54:22,704
of Atlantic Records,
Doug Morris.

2480
01:54:22,771 --> 01:54:25,771
I was told that
if I ever mentioned

2481
01:54:25,871 --> 01:54:27,838
the name Twisted Sister again,

2482
01:54:27,904 --> 01:54:30,171
I'd be fired from my job.

2483
01:54:30,271 --> 01:54:33,938
So this was a problem.

2484
01:54:34,038 --> 01:54:37,304
And so the solution
that I found was--

2485
01:54:37,571 --> 01:54:41,772
one day I saw a guy named
Phil Carson in the office.

2486
01:54:41,839 --> 01:54:44,739
I didn't know him, but I knew
he was a really important guy.

2487
01:54:44,805 --> 01:54:49,105
And, uh, he was from England,
from our English company.

2488
01:54:49,205 --> 01:54:51,705
And I thought maybe
he'll help me.

2489
01:54:51,805 --> 01:54:56,772
So I accosted him
in the hallway.

2490
01:54:56,872 --> 01:54:58,839
And I had a cassette made.

2491
01:54:58,905 --> 01:55:01,339
And I had a bunch
of handwritten sheets of paper,

2492
01:55:01,605 --> 01:55:02,805
'cause I didn't know how
to type.

2493
01:55:02,872 --> 01:55:05,772
And I said, "Phil you don't know
me, you gotta help me, man.

2494
01:55:05,839 --> 01:55:07,905
This is like,
this is the answer.

2495
01:55:07,972 --> 01:55:10,240
You gotta sign these guys."

2496
01:55:10,306 --> 01:55:12,640
And he hands me
this manilla envelope

2497
01:55:12,706 --> 01:55:15,173
and I put it in my bag.

2498
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:18,306
And off I went to get
in my first class seat

2499
01:55:18,573 --> 01:55:21,606
and sip my first class champagne.

2500
01:55:21,706 --> 01:55:23,906
And after the flight took off
I thought,

2501
01:55:23,973 --> 01:55:26,340
"Oh I'll have a listen
to little Jason's tape."

2502
01:55:26,606 --> 01:55:30,940
And first of all I pull
out this handwritten memo

2503
01:55:31,006 --> 01:55:32,606
from Jason to me,

2504
01:55:32,706 --> 01:55:36,240
and it must have been on
12 pages of stenographer paper

2505
01:55:36,306 --> 01:55:37,906
with very small writing.

2506
01:55:37,973 --> 01:55:41,274
And I look at it, and I'm not
gonna wade through this.

2507
01:55:41,341 --> 01:55:45,841
And then I pull out the picture
of this band that he had.

2508
01:55:45,907 --> 01:55:49,007
And they were this group dressed
in women's clothing!

2509
01:55:49,074 --> 01:55:51,107
Oh, my God, you know?!

2510
01:55:51,207 --> 01:55:54,174
So I put the whole thing
in an air sick trash bag

2511
01:55:54,241 --> 01:55:56,574
and never listened to the tape
and threw it away.

2512
01:56:02,007 --> 01:56:03,941
There was no place left to go.

2513
01:56:04,007 --> 01:56:07,141
At this point, after taking it
this far for 10 years,

2514
01:56:07,241 --> 01:56:08,708
it had reached the end.

2515
01:56:08,775 --> 01:56:12,308
We had exhausted our markets
in the U.S.

2516
01:56:12,608 --> 01:56:16,642
We had created all this hype
in the U.K.

2517
01:56:16,708 --> 01:56:19,942
that we were about to not
be able to cash in on

2518
01:56:20,008 --> 01:56:21,142
and ruin our reputation there.

2519
01:56:21,208 --> 01:56:25,208
We were about to blow our
reputation on two continents.

2520
01:56:25,308 --> 01:56:27,075
And we're sitting there
freaking out going,

2521
01:56:27,175 --> 01:56:29,575
"What are we gonna do?
What the hell are we gonna do?"

2522
01:56:29,675 --> 01:56:31,142
And our manager said,
"You know what?

2523
01:56:31,242 --> 01:56:32,705
You laid this groundwork
in England.

2524
01:56:32,708 --> 01:56:34,673
You had this record deal with
Secret that didn't work out.

2525
01:56:34,675 --> 01:56:36,042
Maybe we can something
over in England."

2526
01:56:36,142 --> 01:56:40,009
Somehow the label,
before they went tits up,

2527
01:56:40,109 --> 01:56:43,076
had managed
to finagle an appearance for us

2528
01:56:43,143 --> 01:56:45,776
on a live television show
called "The Tube."

2529
01:56:45,876 --> 01:56:49,209
I don't remember there being
a major discussion

2530
01:56:49,309 --> 01:56:53,809
other than it was a unique
opportunity,

2531
01:56:53,909 --> 01:56:59,076
and we hope we can use it
to generate some interest to push us,

2532
01:56:59,176 --> 01:57:04,809
you know, to a get a new deal,
or something, you know?

2533
01:57:04,876 --> 01:57:06,110
We had nothing else.

2534
01:57:06,177 --> 01:57:08,644
We're stuck over here.
We've gotta get over there.

2535
01:57:08,710 --> 01:57:11,810
It's really-- it's the only thing
that makes sense.

2536
01:57:11,877 --> 01:57:13,310
But how do we do it?

2537
01:57:13,610 --> 01:57:14,710
We need money.

2538
01:57:14,777 --> 01:57:19,110
So we go to friends and family,
as much as we can,

2539
01:57:19,177 --> 01:57:21,277
and get a small amount,
but it's nowhere near enough.

2540
01:57:21,344 --> 01:57:24,577
And so Jay Jay and I go to--
I believe it was--

2541
01:57:24,644 --> 01:57:26,777
three clubs that we have very
good relationships with.

2542
01:57:26,844 --> 01:57:29,944
Tough guys, tough guys.

2543
01:57:30,044 --> 01:57:32,810
Some of whom were people who I think
had lent money, cash money before.

2544
01:57:32,910 --> 01:57:35,678
But not under these terms.

2545
01:57:35,745 --> 01:57:37,345
Under the "listen we'll give it
back to you

2546
01:57:37,611 --> 01:57:39,711
"if everything works right.
Otherwise we'll just--

2547
01:57:39,778 --> 01:57:41,111
we'll play a few dates
for you for free."

2548
01:57:41,211 --> 01:57:42,578
You know,
we were friends with them.

2549
01:57:42,645 --> 01:57:44,278
You know
after a while you're dealing

2550
01:57:44,345 --> 01:57:46,278
with somebody for,
you know, a couple of years--

2551
01:57:46,578 --> 01:57:47,345
we were friends with them.

2552
01:57:47,611 --> 01:57:48,845
They asked us
to lend them some money

2553
01:57:48,911 --> 01:57:51,945
to carry them over
and, uh, we helped them out.

2554
01:57:52,045 --> 01:57:54,945
We flew ourselves
over like in a cattle car.

2555
01:57:55,045 --> 01:57:57,211
It wasn't even coach.

2556
01:57:57,311 --> 01:57:58,745
There was first class,

2557
01:57:58,811 --> 01:58:01,911
business class, coach, and then
where you put the dogs.

2558
01:58:01,978 --> 01:58:02,745
That's where we were.

2559
01:58:10,579 --> 01:58:13,979
The week before Christmas
we finally make it to England

2560
01:58:14,079 --> 01:58:17,879
to do "The Tube"
on live British television.

2561
01:58:17,946 --> 01:58:20,746
Well, hello and good evening
to "The Tube."

2562
01:58:20,812 --> 01:58:22,946
This evening we're going
to be having a number of bands

2563
01:58:23,012 --> 01:58:24,712
who are guaranteed
to make your ears bleed.

2564
01:58:25,846 --> 01:58:30,079
It's us, Tigers of Pantang,
and Iggy Pop.

2565
01:58:30,179 --> 01:58:33,113
The only problem
is it's live television.

2566
01:58:33,213 --> 01:58:35,247
So like we don't have
enough else to worry about.

2567
01:58:35,347 --> 01:58:37,647
We only have 20 minutes
to get our point across,

2568
01:58:37,713 --> 01:58:39,747
and speaking of getting
our point across,

2569
01:58:39,813 --> 01:58:42,113
oh, by the way,
you can't curse.

2570
01:58:42,180 --> 01:58:44,113
So there goes
half Dee's vocabulary.

2571
01:58:44,180 --> 01:58:45,713
Out the door.

2572
01:58:45,780 --> 01:58:47,247
But what's the big deal?

2573
01:58:47,313 --> 01:58:49,713
It's only the most
important show we have

2574
01:58:49,780 --> 01:58:52,847
or will ever play
in the life of the band.

2575
01:58:55,180 --> 01:58:57,180
They look like women,
they play like men,

2576
01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:00,047
and they're the biggest
bunch of hellraisers

2577
01:59:00,113 --> 01:59:01,247
to come out of the States!

2578
01:59:01,313 --> 01:59:03,214
It's Twisted Sister!

2579
01:59:05,948 --> 01:59:07,814
Good evening!

2580
01:59:10,348 --> 01:59:12,248
Welcome to our show!

2581
01:59:12,348 --> 01:59:14,848
I was in the studio all day

2582
01:59:14,948 --> 01:59:18,648
and had concerts
on sale in America.

2583
01:59:18,714 --> 01:59:20,248
And I was making my calls,

2584
01:59:20,348 --> 01:59:24,881
and Phil Carson
from Atlantic Records was there.

2585
01:59:24,981 --> 01:59:28,014
And he was in the next office
doing the same thing.

2586
01:59:28,114 --> 01:59:29,848
So I asked what he was doing,
and he said,

2587
01:59:29,914 --> 01:59:31,882
"Well, I manage this group
called Twisted Sister,"

2588
01:59:31,949 --> 01:59:33,215
who I'd never heard of.

2589
01:59:33,315 --> 01:59:36,715
And I saw all these people
moving backwards and forwards

2590
01:59:36,782 --> 01:59:39,215
who were like seven feet tall
and I thought,

2591
01:59:39,315 --> 01:59:40,349
"Who the fuck are they?"

2592
01:59:40,615 --> 01:59:44,082
And then I realized, of course,
that they are Twisted Sister.

2593
01:59:44,182 --> 01:59:49,215
Which, you know,
didn't endear them to me,

2594
01:59:49,282 --> 01:59:51,749
I was quite serious
about my rock 'n' roll.

2595
01:59:54,582 --> 01:59:58,215
♪ What you don't know
sure can hurt you ♪

2596
01:59:58,282 --> 02:00:02,150
♪ What you can't see
makes you scream ♪

2597
02:00:02,250 --> 02:00:06,316
♪ What you don't know
sure can hurt you ♪

2598
02:00:06,583 --> 02:00:11,583
♪ What you don't have is what
you dream, what you dream ♪

2599
02:00:11,650 --> 02:00:13,783
♪ Dream, dream, dream... ♪

2600
02:00:36,617 --> 02:00:39,184
Mark told me they had
a good following in America

2601
02:00:39,284 --> 02:00:41,051
and would I come and see them.

2602
02:00:41,151 --> 02:00:44,017
Good evening!

2603
02:00:44,084 --> 02:00:46,351
Welcome to "The Tube"
on Channel 4!

2604
02:00:46,617 --> 02:00:51,751
We are Twisted Sister!

2605
02:00:51,817 --> 02:00:54,651
I went down
and watched a bit of the set.

2606
02:00:54,717 --> 02:00:56,251
And I thought,
"Aw, they're not half bad."

2607
02:00:56,784 --> 02:00:58,318
Get your hands...

2608
02:01:12,185 --> 02:01:13,785
In the studio

2609
02:01:13,852 --> 02:01:16,818
there were definitely
some heavy metal fans there,

2610
02:01:16,918 --> 02:01:19,685
who were very reactive
and very responsive to the band.

2611
02:01:19,752 --> 02:01:23,985
But most of the room
was not responding.

2612
02:01:24,085 --> 02:01:26,618
And we had three songs.

2613
02:01:26,686 --> 02:01:29,653
And I had to reach the audience.

2614
02:01:29,719 --> 02:01:31,919
We got the whole front section
going here.

2615
02:01:31,986 --> 02:01:35,586
But I think the back section

2616
02:01:35,653 --> 02:01:37,353
and part of the balcony must be
on Quaaludes or something,

2617
02:01:37,619 --> 02:01:40,719
because they're all standing
there going, "Uh..."

2618
02:01:40,786 --> 02:01:47,086
Again, Twisted Sister always had
the attitude that, you know,

2619
02:01:47,186 --> 02:01:48,319
we didn't fight fair.

2620
02:01:48,586 --> 02:01:50,019
I don't think
that's good enough.

2621
02:01:50,086 --> 02:01:52,653
And I think the problem here
is that we need some help.

2622
02:01:52,753 --> 02:01:54,719
We gotta bring out
the artillery, you understand?

2623
02:01:54,819 --> 02:01:57,787
And we put in a call to Lemmy,
who is now our friend

2624
02:01:57,854 --> 02:01:59,687
and asked him if he would come
out and play with us

2625
02:01:59,787 --> 02:02:01,754
And he and Brian Robinson
were coming out.

2626
02:02:01,854 --> 02:02:03,254
Yes! It's Robbo!

2627
02:02:03,354 --> 02:02:04,985
Lemmy and Robbo from Motorhead!

2628
02:02:04,987 --> 02:02:05,919
Can we hear it for them?!

2629
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:07,587
Come on now.
Let's hear it for them.

2630
02:02:08,720 --> 02:02:10,720
Ready let's go, come on!

2631
02:02:18,587 --> 02:02:19,920
Well, alright!

2632
02:02:29,355 --> 02:02:31,088
Come on let's hear it now!

2633
02:02:31,188 --> 02:02:33,688
The audience wasn't really
reacting that well.

2634
02:02:33,788 --> 02:02:35,588
Everybody wasn't getting
into it,

2635
02:02:35,688 --> 02:02:37,988
and if this audience,
in the room,

2636
02:02:38,055 --> 02:02:39,721
getting the full effect
of Twisted Sister

2637
02:02:39,821 --> 02:02:42,221
wasn't responding,
what would people

2638
02:02:42,288 --> 02:02:44,155
sitting in their comfy chairs
at home--

2639
02:02:44,221 --> 02:02:45,288
what was their reaction?

2640
02:02:45,355 --> 02:02:49,755
We got Twisted Sister
all the way from America.

2641
02:02:49,821 --> 02:02:53,021
We got Motorhead.

2642
02:02:53,088 --> 02:02:54,989
But it still seems
to be a problem.

2643
02:02:55,056 --> 02:02:57,289
We're still missing people
in the audience.

2644
02:02:57,356 --> 02:03:00,656
And that's where I talked,
again don't fight fair.

2645
02:03:00,722 --> 02:03:03,056
You can do something where
you can talk to the audience

2646
02:03:03,122 --> 02:03:04,355
and communicate your feelings.

2647
02:03:04,356 --> 02:03:05,820
But I think you people want
something else

2648
02:03:05,822 --> 02:03:07,356
before you give us what we need.

2649
02:03:07,622 --> 02:03:09,589
I think you got a little
hang-up, some of you people.

2650
02:03:09,656 --> 02:03:11,289
I think there are some people
out there

2651
02:03:11,589 --> 02:03:14,822
who can't take Twisted Sister,
because of the way we look.

2652
02:03:14,889 --> 02:03:17,222
That's the problem,
isn't it now?

2653
02:03:17,289 --> 02:03:18,588
And you just won't
listen to us,

2654
02:03:18,589 --> 02:03:20,155
you won't pay attention to us
out there, now will you?

2655
02:03:20,156 --> 02:03:21,956
No, you won't pay attention.

2656
02:03:22,022 --> 02:03:24,823
Because we got make up on,
that seems to be the problem.

2657
02:03:24,923 --> 02:03:27,057
So we gotta take the make
up off, now don't we?

2658
02:03:27,157 --> 02:03:28,790
I told my roadie,

2659
02:03:28,857 --> 02:03:33,157
I said, "Take my can
of makeup remover and a towel,

2660
02:03:33,223 --> 02:03:37,623
and have it on the side
of the stage, if I call for it."

2661
02:03:37,690 --> 02:03:41,223
I didn't talk to the band
about this, I didn't discuss it.

2662
02:03:41,290 --> 02:03:44,723
I just-- in the back of my mind,
had an idea.

2663
02:03:44,790 --> 02:03:45,957
Gimme that stuff.

2664
02:04:02,691 --> 02:04:04,758
Is that the problem, man?
I got too much make up on, man?

2665
02:04:04,824 --> 02:04:05,824
You can't take me seriously?

2666
02:04:05,924 --> 02:04:06,857
I'm not crazy enough for you?

2667
02:04:06,858 --> 02:04:08,223
Well now I ain't got
no make up on,

2668
02:04:08,224 --> 02:04:09,623
so now what are you going to do?

2669
02:04:09,624 --> 02:04:10,958
Now you gotta give yourself
to me, okay?

2670
02:04:11,058 --> 02:04:12,058
Don't let me down,

2671
02:04:12,124 --> 02:04:14,024
I did something for you.
It's Christmas time.

2672
02:04:14,091 --> 02:04:15,824
Give Twisted Sister
what they want!

2673
02:04:15,891 --> 02:04:18,158
And the place went nuts.

2674
02:04:18,258 --> 02:04:19,991
Aah!

2675
02:04:33,592 --> 02:04:35,125
Come on!

2676
02:04:45,759 --> 02:04:47,792
Thank you!

2677
02:04:47,859 --> 02:04:49,893
Robbo Robinson!

2678
02:04:49,993 --> 02:04:52,993
- And Lemmy!
- Twisted Sister-- alright!

2679
02:04:53,060 --> 02:04:58,026
So they destroyed the audience
and it was a breathtaking show.

2680
02:04:58,093 --> 02:05:01,926
So I turned to Mark. And I said,
"Alright, I'll sign them."

2681
02:05:02,026 --> 02:05:04,626
And he looked at me and said,
"To Atlantic?"

2682
02:05:04,693 --> 02:05:06,193
And I said, "Well that's
where I work, you know.

2683
02:05:06,293 --> 02:05:07,960
I'm gonna sign them
to Atlantic."

2684
02:05:08,060 --> 02:05:09,126
He didn't say another word.

2685
02:05:09,193 --> 02:05:11,093
And then he said, "Well come
back and meet the band."

2686
02:05:11,193 --> 02:05:12,293
I said, "Absolutely not."

2687
02:05:12,360 --> 02:05:15,360
Who wants to meet that lot?
"I said I'll sign them."

2688
02:05:15,660 --> 02:05:17,193
He said, "They're never going
to believe me!"

2689
02:05:17,260 --> 02:05:18,761
And he goes,
"Atlantic Records."

2690
02:05:18,827 --> 02:05:21,327
And I'm thinking, "There's
a thousand record labels!

2691
02:05:21,594 --> 02:05:25,194
The one label in which the quote
from the record company president was,

2692
02:05:25,261 --> 02:05:28,327
'The next person
that mentions this band!'"

2693
02:05:28,594 --> 02:05:30,894
I didn't want to say anything
because-- but I--

2694
02:05:30,994 --> 02:05:32,161
He walked out.

2695
02:05:32,261 --> 02:05:33,827
"We're fucked,
we're not gonna get signed!"

2696
02:05:33,894 --> 02:05:36,994
And the next day Phil Carson
comes in and he goes,

2697
02:05:37,061 --> 02:05:38,927
"So boys, I'm going to sign you
to Atlantic Records,

2698
02:05:39,027 --> 02:05:41,061
"but I have to tell you a very
interesting conversation I had.

2699
02:05:41,127 --> 02:05:43,261
Do you know this person
named Doug Morris?"

2700
02:05:43,327 --> 02:05:44,261
"Yeah."

2701
02:05:44,327 --> 02:05:47,161
I called in on the Tuesday
following the weekend

2702
02:05:47,227 --> 02:05:50,894
I'd seen Twisted Sister
and said,

2703
02:05:50,895 --> 02:05:52,827
"Oh I've got a new band,
I just signed a band.

2704
02:05:52,828 --> 02:05:55,762
It's the first time
I've signed an American band

2705
02:05:55,862 --> 02:05:58,962
but they happened to be over
and they were really good."

2706
02:05:59,028 --> 02:06:02,895
And Doug Morris said,
"What are they called?"

2707
02:06:02,995 --> 02:06:04,628
I said, "Twisted Sister."

2708
02:06:04,695 --> 02:06:07,028
At which point Doug is like,
"Are you fucking kidding me?!

2709
02:06:07,095 --> 02:06:08,027
They suck! They suck!

2710
02:06:08,028 --> 02:06:09,294
I don't want them on my label.
They suck!"

2711
02:06:09,295 --> 02:06:12,261
And Phil goes, "Sure they suck,
but you know they're

2712
02:06:12,262 --> 02:06:13,728
gonna sell a lot of records!"

2713
02:06:15,762 --> 02:06:18,663
We recorded
"You Can't Stop Rock 'n' Roll."

2714
02:06:18,729 --> 02:06:22,296
We had a hit record in the U.K.,
sold out tour,

2715
02:06:22,363 --> 02:06:24,963
we were on Top Of The Pops--
three times.

2716
02:06:25,063 --> 02:06:28,029
We did great.
Come back to the States.

2717
02:06:28,096 --> 02:06:30,696
Of course,
Atlantic Records U.S.--

2718
02:06:30,763 --> 02:06:32,896
zero support, nothing.

2719
02:06:35,096 --> 02:06:37,629
The record came out and
as you can imagine

2720
02:06:37,696 --> 02:06:39,163
it wasn't a big priority
for the label.

2721
02:06:39,229 --> 02:06:44,163
The, uh,
staff wasn't working it.

2722
02:06:44,229 --> 02:06:45,163
I was working it.

2723
02:06:45,229 --> 02:06:46,230
I was calling radio stations.

2724
02:06:46,330 --> 02:06:48,897
I was doing all sorts of things
I wasn't allowed to do.

2725
02:06:48,964 --> 02:06:53,030
But if it's not a priority
for the company, it's very hard.

2726
02:06:53,064 --> 02:06:54,363
We were chomping
at the bit to get out

2727
02:06:54,364 --> 02:06:57,197
and prove ourselves
to the world but, you know,

2728
02:06:57,264 --> 02:06:59,064
nobody wanted us
to go on tour with them.

2729
02:06:59,130 --> 02:07:02,864
So we go this tour opening up
for Krokus and Blackfoot.

2730
02:07:02,930 --> 02:07:04,364
29 minutes.

2731
02:07:04,630 --> 02:07:06,597
And we had no budget, you know.

2732
02:07:06,664 --> 02:07:09,630
And rented a Winnebago
and drove 56 hours.

2733
02:07:09,730 --> 02:07:12,830
56 hours out to Salt Lake City

2734
02:07:12,897 --> 02:07:13,897
and the Winnebago
then broke down.

2735
02:07:13,997 --> 02:07:15,931
And Mark got underneath it
and repaired it,

2736
02:07:16,031 --> 02:07:18,031
you know, like he would
in Long Island, right?

2737
02:07:18,098 --> 02:07:19,865
All to play 29 minutes.

2738
02:07:19,931 --> 02:07:23,131
But we were hell bent
on playing those 29 minutes.

2739
02:07:23,198 --> 02:07:24,698
I mean, that's what you do,
right?

2740
02:07:24,798 --> 02:07:28,131
Every town we went to
we made an impression.

2741
02:07:28,231 --> 02:07:30,631
Every town we went
to we sold records.

2742
02:07:30,698 --> 02:07:33,031
Every town we went to,
the local Atlantic rep

2743
02:07:33,098 --> 02:07:35,598
would call
the following Monday and go,

2744
02:07:35,698 --> 02:07:39,831
"Holy shit, I just saw
the future of rock 'n' roll.

2745
02:07:39,898 --> 02:07:42,698
Their name is Twisted Sister."

2746
02:07:42,765 --> 02:07:45,666
And the main office,
Doug Morris and company,

2747
02:07:45,766 --> 02:07:48,332
would have to hear
the dreaded "Twisted" word

2748
02:07:48,632 --> 02:07:50,299
over and over and over.

2749
02:07:50,366 --> 02:07:53,599
One day I was called
into the office of the president

2750
02:07:53,666 --> 02:07:55,066
of Atlantic Records,
Doug Morris,

2751
02:07:55,166 --> 02:07:57,199
and he said, "You know what?

2752
02:07:57,299 --> 02:07:59,332
This thing is--
this is the real thing."

2753
02:07:59,632 --> 02:08:02,099
And they're gonna
do a new record with Twisted.

2754
02:08:02,199 --> 02:08:04,032
They're gonna push
all the buttons

2755
02:08:04,099 --> 02:08:05,366
and pull out all the stops,

2756
02:08:05,666 --> 02:08:08,199
throw some money into this thing
and make it happen.

2757
02:08:08,266 --> 02:08:10,999
Doug Morris,
the head of Atlantic Records,

2758
02:08:11,099 --> 02:08:12,767
our nemesis--

2759
02:08:12,867 --> 02:08:15,733
who must have hated
having me, this piece of shit,

2760
02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:18,700
dirtbag, Dee Snider
in his office--

2761
02:08:18,767 --> 02:08:20,167
telling me what
they're going to do.

2762
02:08:20,267 --> 02:08:22,933
And I'm arguing with him
about the different moves

2763
02:08:23,033 --> 02:08:24,233
they want to make.

2764
02:08:24,300 --> 02:08:28,200
He had a whole bunch of ideas on
how to clean up Twisted Sister.

2765
02:08:28,300 --> 02:08:30,933
And I was arguing everything.

2766
02:08:31,033 --> 02:08:33,033
You know,
our fans, our fans, our fans.

2767
02:08:33,100 --> 02:08:36,967
And finally Doug has had it!

2768
02:08:37,067 --> 02:08:41,834
And he goes, "How many fans
do you think you have?"

2769
02:08:41,901 --> 02:08:45,101
So I do some math, you know,
we had sold 150,000 albums,

2770
02:08:45,168 --> 02:08:47,368
plus there was overseas,
so whatever it was,

2771
02:08:47,634 --> 02:08:51,868
I came up with the number
100,000-- 150,000-- 200,000.

2772
02:08:51,934 --> 02:08:55,601
And he said,
"What do you want?

2773
02:08:55,668 --> 02:09:00,634
Those same 200,000 fans
or the other 800,000 fans that

2774
02:09:00,701 --> 02:09:02,668
will give you
a platinum album?"

2775
02:09:04,968 --> 02:09:07,601
And here's this like
punky 20-something-year-old kid

2776
02:09:07,701 --> 02:09:11,602
at Atlantic Records
and looking at the president of,

2777
02:09:11,702 --> 02:09:13,702
you know,
this big important dude.

2778
02:09:13,769 --> 02:09:14,902
And I caved.

2779
02:09:14,969 --> 02:09:20,169
I said, "I want to have
a platinum record."

2780
02:09:20,269 --> 02:09:24,002
He said, "Well, shut up.
This is what you gotta do."

2781
02:09:25,002 --> 02:09:26,802
Of course in hindsight
I realize

2782
02:09:26,902 --> 02:09:29,135
the correct answer was,
"I want both."

2783
02:09:29,202 --> 02:09:31,302
You know,
there's a way of achieving both.

2784
02:09:31,369 --> 02:09:35,202
But I was really thrown
by that statement.

2785
02:09:35,269 --> 02:09:38,335
You know I never thought
in terms of millions.

2786
02:09:38,635 --> 02:09:40,836
But here was a guy,
here was a record label

2787
02:09:40,936 --> 02:09:42,636
and that's the only way
they did think.

2788
02:09:42,703 --> 02:09:45,803
They thought in terms of
500,000, a million,

2789
02:09:45,870 --> 02:09:49,136
two million,
you know?

2790
02:09:49,236 --> 02:09:54,003
We wound up selling three and a half
million "Stay Hungry" records in the U.S.

2791
02:09:54,070 --> 02:09:55,270
So, that was cool.

2792
02:10:10,004 --> 02:10:13,204
I always wondered
how the fans felt

2793
02:10:13,304 --> 02:10:15,837
when we finally broke through
and became that huge,

2794
02:10:15,937 --> 02:10:17,971
they must have felt
so vindicated.

2795
02:10:18,037 --> 02:10:21,071
Did the Donnas of the world
feel vindication

2796
02:10:21,137 --> 02:10:24,704
for their undying five-day-a-
week-travel-everywhere

2797
02:10:24,771 --> 02:10:28,337
Twisted Sister diehard support?

2798
02:10:28,604 --> 02:10:33,337
You know...
when you're so close to a band,

2799
02:10:33,637 --> 02:10:38,638
like literally feet away
from a band, and you sorta get,

2800
02:10:38,705 --> 02:10:40,972
I don't know, maybe it's
possessive about them?

2801
02:10:41,072 --> 02:10:45,705
And you have this feeling like,
um, you know that's gonna go.

2802
02:10:45,805 --> 02:10:49,072
So you're really, really, really
happy for them that they're

2803
02:10:49,138 --> 02:10:51,238
getting the success
that they deserve,

2804
02:10:51,305 --> 02:10:52,972
and be recognized, you know,

2805
02:10:53,038 --> 02:10:56,738
world wide for what they do here
in our little club.

2806
02:10:56,838 --> 02:10:59,172
But at the same time it
kinda tore out my heartstrings

2807
02:10:59,272 --> 02:11:00,605
because I was gonna lose them.

2808
02:11:29,606 --> 02:11:31,173
Good evening everybody!

2809
02:11:31,273 --> 02:11:32,873
We are... Twisted...

2810
02:11:33,273 --> 02:11:34,206
Fucking...

2811
02:11:34,273 --> 02:11:36,274
Sister!

2812
02:11:48,940 --> 02:11:53,040
Whoa! What is Twisted Sister
about then?

2813
02:11:53,107 --> 02:11:54,840
Well it's simple!

2814
02:11:54,940 --> 02:11:58,107
We're just about having a good time.

2815
02:11:58,207 --> 02:11:59,274
That's all!

2816
02:11:59,374 --> 02:12:00,940
We just like to have a good time!

2817
02:12:01,007 --> 02:12:04,741
We like to forget about work.
We like to forget about school.

2818
02:12:04,808 --> 02:12:06,808
We like to forget
about home problems.

2819
02:12:06,875 --> 02:12:08,108
We like to forget about everything

2820
02:12:08,175 --> 02:12:09,741
except for partying.

2821
02:12:09,841 --> 02:12:11,308
And we party hard.