All language subtitles for bkbkbj

Over 21 years, 28 young
people went through our hands.

Why did you do that?

I love children.

Once she became the leader
of the cult

and could get whatever she wanted,

one thing that she wanted
was lots of little children.

She was preparing
us for when the time happens,

to re-educate the world,
what's left of it.

How many are your natural children?

There were eight or nine.

We never told them they weren't ours.

We were all children who had
no identity whatsoever.

They were stolen children.

Phony adoptions that were organised
by sect members.

I'm wondering if you've got any
comment to make now

about the children?

Shots are being fired
through windows.

Car tyres are being slashed.

There are death threats.

Aunty Anne sucked as much money out
of people as she possibly could.

Yesterday, seven members
of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's sect

pleaded guilty of defrauding
the Commonwealth...

I know that Muktananda
practiced black magic.

That's why Anne was there -
to learn more about it.

There so many bizarre stories
about who she was.

I didn't even know that Aunty Anne
had another name.

# Waiting for redemption

# Like a dog expecting their reward

# Is this
the endless void of nothing

# Or the coming of the Lord?

# Come on, give me a sign

# Show me my love is real

# Oh, Saint Valentine

# Is this part of the deal? #

When I ran away,

I felt a lot of grief and a lot of
heartache and a lot of guilt,

for leaving the kids
in that situation.

I actually went in with the police
when the raid happened

so that the children realised
that it was OK.

I remember my heart pumping
the whole time and thinking,

"God, how are the children
going to look at me?"

They're taking us somewhere!

It'll break Mum and Dad's heart!

We were ushered out quite quickly,

out of the house and up to the bus
at the end of our driveway.

And then it's all go.

We're being driven away,

and I remember
as we go down the road,

I think it began to dawn on me -

this was actually the end of it.

I was going to do everything
I could to never go back.

At the weekend,

six children were seized from
a property owned by The Family.

Five of the children have appeared
in a Melbourne Children's Court

under care
and protection applications.

Perhaps a week after they had
been rescued from Lake Eildon,

I went to Allambie
to meet the children.

I remember walking into the room,

and there was just
this enormous buzz.

It was as if
the children were birds

that had been freed
from an iron cage.

They were just totally in flight.

I remember things
like being able to do the dishes,

and this was exciting and wonderful.

You know, being able to go
and get food whenever I wanted.

Being able to learn to ride a bike.

We'd all have dinner together and
laugh and lots of food and watch TV.

They said, "You can eat
as much as you want,

and...well, I said, "My stomach's
only a certain size".

There were a team of people
working with the children -

police, medical people,
and myself as a counsellor.

I was asked to work
with those 10 children

to identify who they really were,

because they'd grown up believing

that they were all

the children of Anne Hamilton-Byrne
and Bill Hamilton-Byrne.

There were barbecues and outings
and trips to Luna Park.

We reached out to the children
from our hearts.

But as I sat down one-to-one
with the children...

..I realised

that there was some pretty dark
stuff that they were dealing with.

All that you've known
is suddenly removed,

and you're looking
for a foundation.

You're looking for things
that are familiar.

You're trying to find things
that are solid.

Trust was a big issue.

Could we really trust
these policemen

and these...other people that we've
never seen before in our lives,

that they were going to
look after us,

and...make Eildon go away,

you know,
make Anne and Bill go away,

make the aunties go away?

They had grown up with
a perverse fairy-tale.

They had been systematically
deprived of the truth

for their entire lives.

It was quite a tangled web
of birth certificates,

deed poll name changes,

and affidavits in regard to adoption

that I had to sort through.

Once I had the records
gathered together,

I then went back and sat down
individually with the child.

I was absolutely devastated
that I wasn't who I thought I was.

I was very devastated
by the betrayal, I think.

I went down to the Births
and Deaths and asked them,

"Can I please have the birth
certificate of Sarah Hamilton-Byrne?"

and I got back this piece of paper

saying, "There is no such person
as Sarah Hamilton-Byrne."

And I thought,
"Oh. OK. Well, who am I?"

The only way that
we could, at that point in time,

establish the true identity of the
children, or these young people,

was to try and locate their
natural mother and natural father...

..and then take blood samples.

It was the one of the first times
in Victoria

where DNA was used to match blood
to prove parentage.

Just imagine saying to somebody...

Fancy saying to a woman,
"Do you remember giving birth?

Do you remember that
in this year, particular year...

"..did you give birth?"

Straightaway you're bringing up, in
some cases, some traumatic memories.

And then trying to track down the
father and then saying to this guy,

"I think you've got a child."

"What?"

Bang!

It didn't leave a very nice taste
in your mouth, but you had to do it.

In the '70s,
we didn't talk about it.

Unmarried mothers, young girls,
16, 17,

who fell pregnant,

often weren't seen
for months on end,

and then they would appear back in
their normal lives and communities

and they would have
gone through their pregnancy.

No-one knew
that they had given birth,

but the child had been passed over.

When women went to the
hospital then, if they were single,

and they go
for their first appointment,

their card was marked with an "A",

which meant they were to see the
Almoner, who was the social worker.

And from that moment,

the assumption was that the child
was available for adoption.

If they tried during that time
to question the notion of adoption,

they were shut down.

They were basically told that,

"There's no way
you can keep this child."

In the late '60s,

there wasn't supporting mothers'
pension and things like that.

And particularly if you came
from a religious family,

it was still a great shame
to have a kid out of wedlock.

My biological mother was made
to sign an adoption form...

..and then during my birth,
a pillow was put over her head.

She was given major tranquillisers,

and as soon as I was born,
I was taken away instantly.

She wasn't even allowed
to see...look at me.

Most mothers who talk
about this say something like,

"I heard a cry,
then I heard a door slam."

And that's the child
being taken out.

The idea was,

if you see the child, it'll be
even harder to part with it.

This couple have been
waiting 11 months

to adopt a baby boy.

Today is the first time
they will see him.

Now they must wait patiently

for the fulfilment of
the 30-day consent period.

If the mother of the baby
decides to revoke her decision,

this couple
would have to give him up,

but this distressing
situation rarely happens.

This little illegitimate bundle
will become legitimised.

By adoption, this child will escape
the handicap of its birth.

His real mother

will almost certainly
never set eyes on him again,

and with all the love he can expect
from his new parents,

he may never feel the loss.

In this case,

one woman's loss could turn out
to be somebody else's gain.

John Mackay was
one of those who adopted a child

and let Anne Hamilton-Byrne
look after him.

Anne and Bill wanted to construct
a family of these children

to rear them as a family -

uh...I think for very good
psychological reasons.

They've been able to provide
a stable environment

with a lot of love.

Something that you
weren't able to do?

That's true. I wasn't able.

I wanted to ask him if he knew,
after he handed that child over,

what had happened to that child,

the brutality it'd experienced.

Marie Mohr's my name, Dr Mackay.

I'm wondering if you've got
any comment to make now

about what happened
to the children...

Why won't you have...

Is that all you've got
to say, Dr Mackay?

After what you put
those kids through?

There's no need for that, Dr Mackay!

You raised them under
the name Hamilton-Byrne?

You arranged for
passports in that name.

We did.

Even though that was
not their legal name?

Well, yes, but we did it honourably,
we thought. Quite honourably.

Why? What was the purpose of it?

Because it's easier, if you're
going overseas, into England,

to get treatment for the children
if they are all of one family...

Yes, they are of one family.

We wanted them to be family...
You see...

..a loved family.

Yes, they are of one family.

We wanted them to be a family...
You see...

..a loved family.

When you're investigating a crime,

you've got to keep an open mind.

But as the investigation went on,

in my mind she was becoming
more clinical, more cold.

It was about Anne, and no-one else.

There were so many bizarre stories
about who she was.

We had to drill down
and get the facts.

That's part of the chase,
establishing,

"Who am I actually dealing with?"

Well, I didn't know anything
about her background

until the late '80s,

when all the sort of the news reports
started coming out.

And...I didn't even know that
Aunty Anne had another name.

I think it was Evelyn or something,
wasn't it?

She told us that she came
from some royal family.

We, as children, thought
she was beyond the Queen of England.

She'd even spent time
with the Queen having cups of tea.

She was a singer,
she was an opera singer.

We had a castle
somewhere in Europe

and, you know,
quite la-di-dah, really.

Anne was the direct...
she was Jesus incarnate,

the descendant of God,

and we were descended
from the House of David,

which apparently
was Jesus's bloodline.

When we were older

and we actually found out she was
a railway yard worker's daughter...

..and her mother was a mental
patient in a hospital.

It was really quite a sad story.

I think that she was trying
to portray this perfect wife

and this perfect family

and something that she didn't have.

The father was absent
a lot of the time -

Anne was placed in Brighton
Orphanage a couple of times.

She came from
an extremely impoverished background

and she was put into
a very rich suburb,

where she could sort of see
very privileged children

walking past
to their private schools,

and I think she had fantasies
that she'd get that somehow.

One thing you learn as a detective

is that official documents don't lie.

We turned to the service record of
Anne's first husband, Lionel Harris,

who was a corporal
in the Australian Air Force,

for information.

We discovered that two years
after Judith was born,

Lionel applied to leave
the Air Force

because he was worried
about his wife's mental health.

He said she was very abnormal
to her child,

and her behaviour was very strange.

In the only official diagnosis
we have of Evelyn's mental health,

her doctor described her as
depressed, and neglecting Judith.

He feared she'd inherited
her mother's mental instability,

and may give way.

Two years later,

Lionel is a car salesman
and they've moved to Sydney.

In 1955, a single woman
couldn't adopt a child.

It seemed that Evelyn's dreams
of a larger family were over.

But Evelyn didn't give up.

She had cosmetic surgery
and elocution lessons

and she changed her name.

A new person - Anne -
emerged from the tragedy.

Once she became the leader of a cult
and could get whatever she wanted,

one thing that she wanted
was lots of little children,

lot of perfect little children
in perfect little dresses

with perfect little blond hair.

Well, tell us about her
pregnancy clothes in detail.

Just explain it to me.

Anne told me one night that three
of the children were her triplets,

that she'd had them.

She's just looked me straight
in the face and said,

"I had these three children"

and I'm thinking, "You didn't
have those three children.

"You know...you must think I'm
a bloody idiot to tell me that."

But I just said, "Oh, yes, OK,"
agreed with her.

She's not somebody you argue with.

Anne Hamilton-Byrne's age
meant they couldn't be her children.

She'd had a hysterectomy

years before some of these
children were born.

It wasn't difficult, if people
had actually questioned it.

The truth is,
we weren't their children.

So while they created that construct,
we weren't.

We were all children
who had no identity whatsoever.

Didn't know our own parents, really.

Our identities were carved out
by one person to suit them.

My dad was Bill's son.

So that obviously Bill was not
my father, but my grandfather.

My mother and father met
in Newhaven,

which is a mental institution.

Dad considered
he was unable to look after me...

..and of course Bill said
that he would be able to.

I feel so, so sorry for my dad...

..because he really had
hardly any...

..he really didn't have
a choice in the matter.

Most of the time in my career,

I actually didn't take stuff home
with me, but this case I did.

My wife actually became very
involved with the kids as well.

It's almost like they...become
part of your family,

I guess.

I remember as a 15-year-old

the surreal experience
of knowing Anne wasn't my mother.

And then...who was?

They speak of winning the lotto...
think of the exact opposite.

It was Aunty Joy.

Yeah, it wasn't good.

She said, "Listen,
you're an embarrassment to me.

"Don't bother turning up on the door.
I'll close the door on your face."

So that terminated

any possibility of a
mother-son relationship very quickly.

Are you a follower of
Mrs Hamilton-Byrne's?

I'm a friend of
Mrs Hamilton-Byrne's.

Do you believe she is a teacher?

I believe she is just
a great friend of mine, all right?

I was adopted legally
by Trish and Don Webb,

and then once they got me,
they handed me over to Anne.

And I know for a fact that my mother
actually started looking for me

when she married my stepfather.

So she had been looking for me

probably a year
after I had been adopted out.

And she tells me that it was like
that something was missing.

At the birth, we've got a doctor
who's a sect member,

a midwife that's a sect member,

a social worker that's a sect member.

And the head of the sect
standing outside the hospital.

And within a period
of 15, 20 minutes from birth,

child born, child taken.

I was born
at Royal Women's Hospital,

and Aunty Anne had
all the people working there.

That's how she obtained
some of us kids.

I was just handed over.

I'm sure my mum was coerced
to give me up,

and I don't believe
that she really wanted to,

because why else would you revoke
the adoption three times?

And then they can't find me.

The legal system goes,
"Where is this baby?"

I mean, I knew Roland
wasn't my biological brother.

I was told
that Roland was to be presented

as the child of Don Webb
and Elizabeth Whitaker.

And I was also told
at the very outset

that if Roland ever discovered
that he was adopted,

he would kill himself,

so I...and I guess I believed that.

So I was very, very careful

never ever, ever to tell Roland
he was adopted.

Lex de Man gave me the option
to leave The Family...

..for me to become
a ward of the state.

So I had to make a decision then
and there what I wanted to do.

And I had to make the decision
to stick with my family...

..because I couldn't see a future,
being taken away.

My loyalty was with my mum and dad
and Aunty Anne,

and that was very strong.

Roland wasn't the only child
we were worried about.

Anne and her followers had bought up
a lot of the houses in Ferny Creek.

Many of them had swapped partners,

so they were living with children
who weren't their own.

There were allegations of rampant
drug use and harsh discipline.

My mother gave birth to me
at 16...

..so you've got one child
looking after a baby

with absolutely no support
from her own family.

Going forwards to 1970,

my mother had married one
of the cult members.

I came home from school one day.
I was about 10.

My mother was...almost in a coma.

I couldn't rouse her,
and I became very concerned.

I called the neighbours, and then
Elizabeth Whitaker was sent up.

Elizabeth Whitaker
was a registered nurse,

one of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's
lieutenants.

I was told that my mother
had been put in a hospital

and that it may be some time
before I see her.

Elizabeth presented
as a very friendly, caring woman

and she said, "Oh, look, you know,
you can come and stay with me."

I was just told, "Well, you know,
she's a bit unwell,"

and, "She's not a very good mother,

"and, look, you know, you've got
all these lovely people here,

"all these aunties and uncles,

"and they're nurses and doctors.

"They'll look after you.
You'll be fine."

About a year after that,

round about 1971...

..pulled me aside one day
and he said,

"I'm going to give you a healing
on the weekend".

And he said, "I'm going to put
a scarf round your head.

"I'm going to give you psilocybin,

and you're going
to see pretty colours."

Then I was in
a completely different world.

I felt pressure on my chest

and I felt hands on me,

down towards by genital area,

then sort of around the back.

For the next few days,
I had bleeding from my anus,

and I had a lot of pain
round that area.

I know that he sexually assaulted me
in some way, form or shape.

I don't think at first
that anyone in the authorities

realised the complexities
of the sect.

And so...they thought

they were perhaps dealing
with a child abuse case.

And they were,

but I don't think they realised
the layers underneath that.

I really don't believe
anyone knew what to do.

This was the first time

they had a group of X number of kids

coming out of
a completely controlled environment,

and trying to interface them
into the world.

We took the girls
back to their prison.

For them, it brought back
memories of terror.

When we'd been naughty, they'd
lock us in the shed for the night.

The night?
Yeah.

Well, the police knew I knew a lot.

So they wanted to pick my brains,

because by then I'd done dozens
of stories on the sect...

...spent a lot of time
with the kids.

They became visitors to my house.

Some of them
lived with us for years.

I do remember one of my bosses
saying to me at one stage,

"Are you a social worker
or a journalist?"

And I said, "Well, at the moment,
it seems I'm a bit of both."

When I ran away,
it was very difficult,

'cause we weren't taught
anything about the outside world.

I didn't even know
how to cross a road.

I remember going to the bank

and asking them if I could borrow
$50 to go and buy clothes,

so...I mean, they must have
thought I was really weird.

I was made a ward of the state,
and I struggled.

Failed HSC, got a job,
got sacked from it.

I'd been quite suicidal,
very depressed.

I was starved of love.

You open doors to things
in pursuit of that love.

I had to be very careful
that I didn't fall into another cult.

I was in and out of a psych unit
because I wanted to kill myself.

And sometimes the anger
was so deep I'd be...

..just you're standing up and you're
storming around the house going,

"I can't calm down,
I can't calm down"

because I just didn't know,

and you'd stop and you'd, "Rah!"
at the floor...

You know, you just...

Oh! I can't actually articulate
the strength of it.

Till you're finished?

You could see...

..they wanted something done
about what had happened to them,

but you didn't really
want to expose them

to the pressures and the trauma
of having to relive all of that

and give evidence in a witness box.

..beltings.

The black three-cornered cane
was one of the most feared.

You couldn't hear those stories
without it affecting you,

if you had any heart at all.

And that's why the police
did become so involved.

They wanted justice
for those children.

We've been blown up
all over the place now.

You think about it -

you've got enough brains, those
of you who are left.

Every rebuff is a challenge,
so I'm saying to you, go forward.

All the powers of darkness rise up
and try to overwhelm us,

but I have done my best
and I'm still there.

Those who are devoted to me realise
this and they are united with me.

Many retreat back
into their darkness

and that's what's happened
to those who have left.

Self-interest.
Doesn't it make you sick?

No, I'm not half nuts...

We knew that she'd committed crimes.

We knew that we needed
to get her back in this country.

We knew that we had
to get her before a court,

for everyone involved in the sect
to see that no one was above the law.

Mum was just blindly following
everything that she said and did.

She met Albert Baker.

He was another sect member
and she ended up marrying him.

Come on.

It was really a bigamous marriage,

because she was actually
still married to my father.

Albert!

Smile - you're on Candid Camera now.

Cheerio, cheerio.

- OK, I think that's enough of that.
- OK.

How did Anne Hamilton-Byrne

come to have control over the lives
of nearly 30 children?

Well, she could never have done it

without the grown-up members
of her so-called Family.

This report from Marie Mohr.

Photographer Alan Crisp,
a sect member for over a decade.

Is Anne still your guru,

even though you know the children
were locked away now

Is she still your guru, Alan?

Get lost, Marie. Get bloody lost.

Other members include

general practitioners Dr
Christine Fleming and Dr John Mackay.

She targeted the people
that she wanted,

and the people that she wanted

had either money
or had expectations of money.

Everyone had a job.

But then they came home and
then she had tasks for them to do.

And people were working,
you know, 16 hours a day,

and working and working,

and overworking
to the point of exhaustion.

And nothing was ever quite right,
or never enough.

Pretty much standard
brain-washing technique.

Yesterday, seven members
of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's sect

pleaded guilty of defrauding
the Commonwealth

of a total of $195,000.

No comment.
No comment.

No comment.

Three of those women,

Helen Buchanan, Elizabeth Whitaker
and Margot Maclellan,

were among
the women Anne Hamilton-Byrne

ordered to look after the children

locked away on the sect's
Lake Eildon property.

Mum done a lot of illegal stuff
with Aunty Anne or for Aunty Anne.

She was charged and put into prison
for social security fraud.

She was pissed off about it,

but Aunty Anne was her guru,

so...stood by her, thick and thin.

Aunty Anne sucked as much money out
of people as she possibly could.

Anybody who joined
The Family had to pay dues.

Money to go and do the meditation,

money to go and do the yoga,

money to...to fund this,
money to fund that, you know?

Aunty Anne very rarely
put her own hands in her own pocket.

We estimated Anne's wealth
to be around $50 million.

To be a member of the sect,

you had to donate part of your wages
to Anne,

and that included the aunties.

They actually had to pay Anne

the privilege
of caring for the children -

so-called 'caring' for the children -

at Eildon.

Anne was ambitious.

She wanted to expand the cult,

so she bought several properties
in Australia,

in England,

and also near Hurleyville,

a town in the Catskill Mountains
in upstate New York.

This is Swami Muktananda,

the head of
a multi-million dollar empire,

and described by his followers

as one of
the most significant figures

in contemporary spiritual life.

Based in India, he travels the
world, recruiting adherents,

showing people the way.

In the '70s,

there were quite a few "yogis"

coming over to the West

and attaining a lot of money
and fame and power,

but he was one of the biggest.

I mean, he was followed
by a lot of celebrities.

There were ashrams and centres
all over the world,

thousands and thousands of devotees.

While I was on tour with Muktananda,
Anne Hamilton-Byrne showed up.

She had her whole entourage with her

of these small children

with dyed blonde hair
and identical bows in their hair.

She was like this spider
with all these little baby spiders.

It was one of the strangest things
I'd ever seen.

She had a lot of money.

I don't know where she got it,

but she bought a property
very near the ashram

and they would come stay there.

We'd go to the ashram
every afternoon,

so Anne could show us off
to the Swami Muktananda clan,

in order that perhaps
one or two of them at least

would transfer over to her cult.

She was jealous.

I mean, she was the Messiah.

She should be followed by, you know,
all these many beautiful people!

But I got this sense

that Anne was there
to get power from Muktananda,

and Muktananda
was there to show up Anne.

He gave her the name Ma Yoga Shakti.

Ma Yoga Shakti means
"the great mother Shakti".

And I...I mean, it was like
he was making a joke out of her.

People would sit in meditation

and he'd go around and swat you
with this big peacock feather wand.

He was practicing
all these ancient techniques,

that if you do them enough times,

you actually attain powers
to take over someone.

I know that Muktananda
practised...black magic.

I believe that
that's why Anne was there -

to be around him,
to learn more about it.

Anne told everybody
that she had certain powers.

She would put a curse on people
if they did anything wrong,

or something that she didn't like.

She used to have
these little blocks of ice

where she'd put people's names
in the freezer.

Any of the police that were involved
in trying to help us,

she would put their names
in the ice.

The fact is

that the enormous majority of people
do not want this knowledge.

The fact is...
they'd like to see me dead.

Anne cursed me
because I betrayed her.

Betrayed the cult motto
of unseen, unheard, unknown,

and dared to tell the police

what was happening
to the other children.

Once I betrayed her,
I was the...THE Judas.

Every messiah has to have a Judas,
I guess.

A young man dared to criticise
and disagree with Anne.

She said,
"You've turned away from the light.

"You are going to die
of a heart attack."

So what did he do?
He went home and had a heart attack.

No-one thought they were going off
worshipping the devil.

People have been used
to thinking of evil as being ugly...

..whereas it's not.

It looks beautiful,
it can use everything, even love,

to get its own way,
to get power.

That's beautiful. Come on.

Aren't they the sweetest?

No that's really beautiful, that,
honey.

Beautiful boys.

Oh, stay like that for a while.
That's beautiful.

Mmm.

Beautiful boys for the children.
Oh, how lovely.

She wasn't giving love.

She was offering it
and then taking it back.

That's how she made those
poor aunties at Eildon

do these appalling things
to children.

She broke their spirit.

I took it on myself

to talk to one of the psychiatrists

who'd dropped out of the group.

And I said, "What would you say
Anne is, medically speaking?"

And he said,
"Well, she's a psychopath."

She was intuitively, diabolically
able to see into people.

In the 1950s and '60s,

medical and military circles

were experimenting with LSD
as a truth drug.

Even the CIA and the
KGB were involved.

Psychiatrists in The Family

would have told Anne
about its potential

to get deep into the minds
of her followers.

She found out everything.

People under the drug
went back to their childhood.

They told all their secrets,
good and bad.

She would gather
all that information...

..and use it later

to destroy people's marriages
and relationships.

I'm not aware of any marriage
that survived that Family.

The LSD was like an interrogation,

which was always trying
to get down to something...

..usually sexual, or shameful.

You know, I could kind of tell
the days and nights going past

because of the clatter of the meals
underneath as they prepared food.

She'd just come in
like every 12 hours or so

and give me another piece

because I wasn't working hard enough.

She would ask questions about...
about your sexual thoughts,

your sexual desires,
your sexual fantasies,

what you liked,
what you didn't like.

Whether you were breastfed
or whether you weren't breastfed

and whether you were really
homosexual or whether you weren't.

We'd been involved with Muktananda
for a few years prior to that,

and I was very attracted to him
personally as a guru.

And she really, really,
really wanted me to deny him

and accept her as the living Christ.

She really hammered me on it,

either to break me,

or...or she wanted me to be hers.

Bill said,
"Oh, you're back with us."

And it was several months
after what had happened.

I just flipped out
into some sort of psychotic state.

She seemed to use sex to bring out
the guilt that people felt.

She would target the women
in the group.

Some of them had
had multiple partners,

so she would publicly name them
and shame them.

It was a way
of keeping them...compliant.

Anne treated pregnant women
very badly.

Pre- and post-natal depression
was common.

And it happened to me.

She just told people that they
weren't allowed to visit me at all.

So I had no visitors,

and, um...you know,

just I...I got very depressed
while I was pregnant.

I was very thin.

I was shaking all the time.

I couldn't drive,
I couldn't...think.

And so she said, "Well, you know,
I'll take care of your children

"because, you know, you're a wreck"

and she sent me over to England
for a year.

My children were sent up to...

..Eildon,

and the results were catastrophic.

David was very, very badly treated.

He was given back to me
when he was seven.

Anne said if he'd stayed up there,
he would have died,

so she gave him back to me.

He couldn't speak.
He'd lost his speech.

David has no memory now

of anything that happened to him
before he was seven.

Nothing.

And...Matthew became very depressed.

He tried to take his life
when he was 16.

He couldn't come to terms
with how he felt, his depression,

and he finally...succumbed.

Matthew suicided eventually
when he was 20.

There were so many people

that were so adversely affected
by this group.

They'd lost their money,

they'd lost their properties,

they, uh...they lost their minds.

I submitted a detailed report

and suggested
that the only real way forward

was a Royal Commission,

where many, many of these people

could and would come forward
and give evidence.

But it was just rejected.

I don't even know
that it went anywhere

apart from my immediate superiors.

The wheels of justice
were just too slow.

Where was the justice
for the adult victims?

Where was the justice
for the child victims?

Why wasn't she being
brought to account?

We got word that she was in Hawaii.

It seemed to me it was about time
that she answered some questions.

Hello, Mrs Hamilton-Byrne.

Marie Mohr from Channel 9.

Have you got any comment now

about why you kept those children
locked away for so long?

No comment.
No comment.

Why not?

They weren't locked away.
They weren't locked away.

They weren't locked away?
No, they weren't.

Keeping them at Eildon for years?
No. Excuse me.

Can you explain to me why you treated
the children like you did?

And, Bill, if you'd like to give
explanations as to your involvement

in why the
children were locked away.

I've got nothing to say to you.

You locked...
and you stole the children...

Stole?

You stole them from sect members.

Excuse me.
Got doctors to organise the adoption.

I think this is absolute...
Excuse me.

I'll just go and phone the police.

But why won't you give us a...

Excuse me.
Sorry.

But why won't you?

We have legal action.

We've been advised to say nothing.

You have no rights
to be asking me these things.

Do you think
you have spiritual powers?

I don't THINK
I have spiritual powers.

We had several defamation cases
brought against us

by different members of the sect.

Not Anne!

Anne doesn't ever
do her own dirty work.

A long period of time where
I'd be lucky to get a night's sleep

without the phone
going through the night.

Hang-up calls, hang-up calls.

Just a harassment campaign.

Marie had, of course, the
private wallet of the media empire.

I worked within a bureaucracy.

You've actually got to
convince your bosses

that what you're talking
about is actual...

..not bizarre,
but it's a possibility.

I don't know
exactly what happened,

but there's no doubt

that it had to have come
from within our...our group.

The matter came to me through
anxious and unhappy police...

..on a confidential basis.

I mean, I would never,
even to this day, say who it was.

It was one policeman who used me
to say what needed to be said.

The matters being investigated
are most serious.

Shots are being fired through
windows, car tyres are being slashed.

There are death threats.

Not one charge has been laid

because the squad concerned

is not able to obtain permission

to travel interstate
to conduct interviews.

The police are saying,

"For God's sake, give us
the resources to do the job.

"Let us get on with the job."

Around about that point,
there was quite a deal of publicity.

I think that became
very embarrassing to government,

and strangely enough,

all of a sudden,
we got more resources -

computers and analysts

to assist in getting together
all this information

that went back for so long.

Today in Melbourne,

19-year-old Roland Webb was charged

with threatening to kill
investigating police

and reporter Marie Mohr.

The story is that one of the
policemen that raided at Eildon

when they took the kids

hit Mum.

You don't stuff
with me and my...my family.

Go on.

Roland.

Sometimes I don't know
when to shut my mouth.

This mouth has got me
into trouble sometimes.

And, like, I don't fear authority.

Well, I stand by my parents
and the followers.

It's a free world. I'm going to
follow them every inch of the way.

Uncle Bill, he was tickled pink.

Couldn't stop talking

how I was the only person
that stood up for The Family.

So much so

that he promised me $50,000
in his will...

..for that very act.

I know at the time
many of my friends outside work

were really worried
about my state of health.

It's not a nine to five job.

Your mind continues to tick.

"What's the next step
I'm going to do?

"How's that witness going
that I've just interviewed?"

You're dealing with people

that have gone through
enormous emotional trauma,

and so when you're taking their
strong and horrendous statements...

..pretty taxing work.

And there were times
during the task force

where you dealt with senior people,

and they just didn't understand
the impact it was having.

It was a culture in those days of,
you know,

"Oh, you're a detective? Don't be
bloody weak. Let's just move on."

I can remember one policemen
saying to me he wanted to see me.

He was a big, tough cop.

We went into a private room.

He just looked me in the eye
and he said,

"What happened to those kids
is giving me nightmares."

Two of the members needed their
own psychological treatment,

and left the task force.

It was frustrating
and it was a bit depressing as well,

just to actually have that conflict,
if you like -

being close
to these great young kids,

and then not be able
to do the absolute best for them.

It should have been
a royal commission,

for the benefit of those children
and the many, many people

who are so adversely effected
by this group.

The only thing that you can do
is lead by example and keep focused.

We started then to piece together
all the evidence we had,

where the evidence was missing,

and what we needed to do,

and where was the strongest case
that we could find

in a short period of time

against Anne and Bill.

We gave each alleged offender
a colour,

each series of events a number,

and each victim
a letter of the alphabet.

I was absolutely, totally obsessed,
and others on the team were as well.

We were getting pressured to
wrap it up, but we kept on working.

Then came the breakthrough.

The key to the activities of the cult
lay in the brain of Peter Kibby.

He broke the code of silence
within that sect.

And we just had to get Anne
and get Bill back to Australia.

This was a mission for him,

and he was determined to right
a very horrible wrong.

Anne Hamilton-Byrne
and her husband William

were arrested at their home
in upstate New York...

This morning,

Victorian police
had Anne and William Hamilton-Byrne

back on Australian soil.

When she was extradited
back, it was all mad chaos.

I mean I loved her to bits, but,
jeez, she was a bloody troublemaker.

We are winning through
by the power of the holy spirit.

This is the Lord God's battle.

Whilst a large part of me
didn't want to see her suffer,

I still wanted there to be justice.

This is it.
This is the day of judgement.

Were we going to get an outcome that
was going to be the right outcome?

Captions by Red Bee Media

Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation