All language subtitles for The.Inventor.Out.for.Blood.in.Silicon.Valley.2019.720p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-NTG

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian Download
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch Download
en English Download
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese Download
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:22,542 --> 00:00:24,142 We've had a great opportunity 2 00:00:24,208 --> 00:00:25,810 in asking so many people so many questions 3 00:00:25,834 --> 00:00:28,458 about things ranging from the future to, kind of, advice, 4 00:00:28,542 --> 00:00:31,125 and we thought we'd ask a few questions 5 00:00:31,208 --> 00:00:33,959 that run a little bit of a gamut, really quickly. 6 00:00:34,410 --> 00:00:37,830 - Mm. Okay. - Can you look into the lens? 7 00:00:37,166 --> 00:00:39,959 We thought it would be interesting to ask you, 8 00:00:40,410 --> 00:00:41,166 in the year 2025, 9 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,959 what's the thing you're most certain about? 10 00:00:44,410 --> 00:00:50,125 More people will have access to their own health information. 11 00:00:50,208 --> 00:00:53,830 What do you dream for? Something in 2025? 12 00:00:53,166 --> 00:00:55,959 That less people have to say goodbye too soon 13 00:00:56,410 --> 00:00:57,458 to people they love. 14 00:00:57,542 --> 00:01:00,458 That's great. Can you tell us a secret? 15 00:01:06,417 --> 00:01:08,500 I don't have many secrets. Um... 16 00:01:25,625 --> 00:01:28,208 Are you a scientist or a technologist? 17 00:01:28,291 --> 00:01:29,625 Or an entrepreneur? 18 00:01:29,709 --> 00:01:31,625 I think I'm an entrepreneur. 19 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:33,709 I was trained as an engineer, 20 00:01:33,792 --> 00:01:36,410 but... now my time is spent 21 00:01:36,125 --> 00:01:39,458 on doing whatever it takes to realize this mission. 22 00:01:40,291 --> 00:01:42,000 Theranos is the integration 23 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:45,410 of the words therapy and diagnosis. 24 00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:47,375 And if we can shift toward a model in which 25 00:01:47,458 --> 00:01:50,333 we're determining the onset of disease 26 00:01:50,417 --> 00:01:52,834 in time for therapy to be effective, 27 00:01:52,917 --> 00:01:54,834 we will change outcomes. 28 00:01:55,625 --> 00:01:58,125 You founded this company 12 years ago, right? 29 00:01:58,208 --> 00:01:59,667 Tell 'em how old you were. 30 00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:02,410 - I was 19. - Yeah. 31 00:02:05,830 --> 00:02:07,250 There was never sort of a plan 32 00:02:07,333 --> 00:02:09,834 to drop out of Stanford, but I found what I loved. 33 00:02:09,917 --> 00:02:14,208 I found what I wanted to spend my life doing. 34 00:02:14,291 --> 00:02:17,291 Elizabeth has raised more than $400 million. 35 00:02:18,333 --> 00:02:21,500 The company is valued at $9 billion. 36 00:02:21,583 --> 00:02:24,208 You own over 50% of it, right? 37 00:02:24,291 --> 00:02:26,125 Congratulations on that. 38 00:02:26,208 --> 00:02:29,417 We've got an incredible opportunity to try to uphold 39 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:31,667 a legacy in Silicon Valley of changing the world. 40 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:34,333 And we like to think about it as a movie, 41 00:02:34,417 --> 00:02:38,333 and you can begin to see that story in a better way. 42 00:02:39,667 --> 00:02:42,250 We see a world in which every person 43 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:44,125 has access 44 00:02:44,208 --> 00:02:46,625 to actionable health information 45 00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:49,830 at the time it matters. 46 00:02:49,166 --> 00:02:50,667 A world in which 47 00:02:50,750 --> 00:02:52,375 no one ever has to say, 48 00:02:53,375 --> 00:02:56,410 "If only I'd known sooner." 49 00:02:57,125 --> 00:02:58,959 A world in which 50 00:02:59,410 --> 00:03:02,250 no one ever has to say goodbye too soon. 51 00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:06,959 This future 52 00:03:07,410 --> 00:03:09,166 is beginning now. 53 00:03:21,792 --> 00:03:24,458 Nestled in the foothills above Silicon Valley, 54 00:03:24,542 --> 00:03:26,834 there is a 700-acre plot of land 55 00:03:26,917 --> 00:03:29,500 called the Stanford Research Park. 56 00:03:29,583 --> 00:03:32,792 According to the website, it's a community of and for people 57 00:03:32,875 --> 00:03:35,291 who seek to invent the future. 58 00:03:35,375 --> 00:03:38,333 From here came elements of the microwave tube, 59 00:03:38,417 --> 00:03:42,417 the mainframe computer, and the International Space Station. 60 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,834 Steve Jobs spent time here, 61 00:03:44,917 --> 00:03:48,166 so did Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. 62 00:03:48,250 --> 00:03:51,291 Elizabeth Holmes saw herself in their company. 63 00:03:51,375 --> 00:03:54,792 So in the fall of 2014, she moved her biotech startup 64 00:03:54,834 --> 00:03:57,208 Theranos to the research park. 65 00:03:57,291 --> 00:03:59,667 The company employed 800 people 66 00:03:59,709 --> 00:04:03,291 and was valued at nearly $10 billion. 67 00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:06,667 Four years later, it was worth less than zero. 68 00:04:09,291 --> 00:04:11,000 To understand what happened, 69 00:04:11,125 --> 00:04:13,417 it pays to look past the price of the stock 70 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:15,625 to the value of the story. 71 00:04:15,667 --> 00:04:19,709 This compelling tale of divining hundreds of diseases from a drop of blood 72 00:04:19,834 --> 00:04:23,125 was a testament to the imagination of the inventor. 73 00:04:24,834 --> 00:04:26,709 In the deserted property she designed, 74 00:04:26,834 --> 00:04:29,834 you can almost hear the echoes of her ambition 75 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:33,830 and see how glass walls, promising transparency, 76 00:04:33,166 --> 00:04:35,333 could become a labyrinth of mirrors. 77 00:04:36,834 --> 00:04:38,542 Was Elizabeth lost in a landscape 78 00:04:38,667 --> 00:04:40,500 between what she could make real 79 00:04:40,542 --> 00:04:42,792 and the world of make-believe? 80 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:48,830 For me, this was a story of how people get trapped 81 00:04:48,166 --> 00:04:51,834 over time with trading off human values. 82 00:04:52,375 --> 00:04:54,667 And then, the way that they trade off those values 83 00:04:54,709 --> 00:04:57,959 change them as people and things go down. 84 00:04:58,410 --> 00:05:01,375 So part of it was trying to understand... 85 00:05:02,250 --> 00:05:04,291 and I think this is part of the story... 86 00:05:04,375 --> 00:05:05,625 is the journey for Elizabeth. 87 00:05:05,709 --> 00:05:08,667 Some people take a path, 88 00:05:08,750 --> 00:05:11,625 trying to do positive things for the world, right? 89 00:05:11,709 --> 00:05:14,166 Nobody questions that her motives were... 90 00:05:14,250 --> 00:05:17,458 were positive, but end up being something bad. 91 00:05:17,542 --> 00:05:18,792 How do we react to this? 92 00:05:18,875 --> 00:05:21,830 You can look at her at the end, 93 00:05:21,166 --> 00:05:22,959 and say how could she do this, 94 00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:25,417 but I think that would miss the point 95 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:28,830 if you don't understand the journey. 96 00:05:28,166 --> 00:05:30,125 If you look at her from the beginning, 97 00:05:30,208 --> 00:05:32,333 it will be a cautionary tale about all of us. 98 00:05:39,125 --> 00:05:41,709 I grew up spending summers 99 00:05:41,792 --> 00:05:44,417 and the holidays with my uncle. 100 00:05:46,417 --> 00:05:48,625 I remember how much he loved the beach. 101 00:05:49,834 --> 00:05:52,917 I remember how much I loved him. 102 00:05:54,583 --> 00:05:57,625 He was diagnosed one day with skin cancer, 103 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:01,410 which all of a sudden was brain cancer, 104 00:06:01,750 --> 00:06:03,917 and in his bones. 105 00:06:05,830 --> 00:06:08,830 He didn't live to see his son grow up, 106 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:11,625 and I never got to say goodbye. 107 00:06:13,583 --> 00:06:18,792 The right to protect the health and well-being 108 00:06:19,709 --> 00:06:24,417 of every person, of those we love, 109 00:06:25,291 --> 00:06:28,291 is a basic human right. 110 00:06:29,709 --> 00:06:31,583 Over the course of the last 11 years, 111 00:06:31,667 --> 00:06:34,583 we've made it possible to run 112 00:06:34,667 --> 00:06:37,166 comprehensive laboratory tests 113 00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:39,709 from a few drops of blood 114 00:06:39,792 --> 00:06:42,792 that could be taken from a finger. 115 00:06:48,375 --> 00:06:50,667 And we've made it possible 116 00:06:50,750 --> 00:06:54,000 to eliminate the tubes and tubes of blood 117 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:57,250 that traditionally have to be drawn from an arm, 118 00:06:58,709 --> 00:07:02,125 and replaced it with the nanotainer. 119 00:07:14,709 --> 00:07:17,125 And if I had one wish, 120 00:07:17,208 --> 00:07:19,917 standing here with all of you, 121 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,417 it would be that no one has to go through the pain 122 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:26,709 of traditional phlebotomy. 123 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:29,917 I was always... 124 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,125 absolutely terrified of giving blood. 125 00:07:32,208 --> 00:07:34,583 It's the only thing in my life I've ever been scared of. 126 00:07:47,410 --> 00:07:49,709 If we were to sit here and dream up torture experiments, 127 00:07:49,792 --> 00:07:53,125 psychologically, the concept of sticking large needles 128 00:07:53,208 --> 00:07:55,333 over and over into someone, 129 00:07:55,417 --> 00:07:57,625 and draining out so much blood, 130 00:07:57,709 --> 00:08:00,709 while they're watching this blood being sucked out of them, 131 00:08:00,792 --> 00:08:04,625 that you've basically completely debilitated them, 132 00:08:04,709 --> 00:08:08,625 that qualifies as a pretty good torture experiment in my book. 133 00:08:08,709 --> 00:08:11,583 I find it quite disturbing. 134 00:08:16,875 --> 00:08:19,709 This technician is preparing the blood sample 135 00:08:19,792 --> 00:08:21,917 for a white cell count. 136 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,709 She dilutes the blood with a special fluid 137 00:08:24,792 --> 00:08:28,208 and puts a measured amount into a pipette. 138 00:08:28,291 --> 00:08:30,917 Since, really, the clinical lab infrastructure 139 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,792 began to develop, we've had this highly centralized, 140 00:08:34,875 --> 00:08:37,375 very big, analytical instruments 141 00:08:37,458 --> 00:08:39,792 which require that much blood, 142 00:08:39,875 --> 00:08:43,625 and therefore, people have had to take tubes and tubes 143 00:08:43,709 --> 00:08:46,458 every time they do a blood draw. 144 00:08:46,542 --> 00:08:50,917 So, laboratory testing hasn't changed since the 1950s. 145 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,000 It's the closest thing to mainframe computers versus... 146 00:08:55,830 --> 00:08:58,830 it's not even PCs... versus mobile phones that... 147 00:08:58,166 --> 00:09:00,291 that I've ever seen, right? 148 00:09:00,375 --> 00:09:04,750 So, the timing is very ripe to change this paradigm. 149 00:09:36,410 --> 00:09:39,375 There's no shortcut to really hard work. 150 00:09:39,458 --> 00:09:41,875 And we learn so much more from our failures 151 00:09:41,959 --> 00:09:44,709 than we did from our successes. 152 00:09:44,792 --> 00:09:46,875 We code-named our product "The Edison" 153 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:49,875 because we assumed we'd have to fail 10,000 times 154 00:09:49,959 --> 00:09:52,500 to get it to work the 10,001st. 155 00:09:53,583 --> 00:09:54,959 And we did. 156 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,917 What does it mean to invent something? 157 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,125 It could be an act of creation, 158 00:10:11,208 --> 00:10:13,250 or an act of deception. 159 00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:15,709 The world's greatest inventor did both. 160 00:10:15,792 --> 00:10:17,709 We think of Thomas Edison 161 00:10:17,792 --> 00:10:19,583 as the inventor of the phonograph, 162 00:10:19,667 --> 00:10:22,375 the electric light bulb, and the way we look at the world. 163 00:10:22,458 --> 00:10:26,417 Edison's company made one of the first motion picture cameras 164 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:31,000 and the very first commercial movie, Blacksmithing Scene. 165 00:10:38,208 --> 00:10:41,208 His company produced over 1,200 films, 166 00:10:41,291 --> 00:10:43,542 documentaries and fiction films, 167 00:10:43,625 --> 00:10:45,875 including the first screen kiss. 168 00:10:51,667 --> 00:10:55,208 But Edison's greatest invention may have been himself. 169 00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:56,750 The first celebrity businessman, 170 00:10:56,834 --> 00:11:00,410 Edison's secret was knowing how to tell a good story, 171 00:11:00,125 --> 00:11:03,125 in which he cast himself as the main character. 172 00:11:03,208 --> 00:11:05,166 "The Wizard of Menlo Park," 173 00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:09,410 a man who could conjure anything in his laboratory. 174 00:11:13,208 --> 00:11:15,542 He had his name on over 2,000 patents, 175 00:11:15,625 --> 00:11:17,542 from telegraphs to vacuum pumps 176 00:11:17,625 --> 00:11:20,667 to electric cars. 177 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:24,125 But he often promised far more than he could deliver. 178 00:11:24,208 --> 00:11:27,375 In 1878, the New York Sun printed a claim by Edison 179 00:11:27,458 --> 00:11:30,709 that he had solved the mystery of the incandescent light bulb. 180 00:11:30,792 --> 00:11:32,875 But it wasn't true. 181 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:34,500 His filaments kept melting. 182 00:11:34,583 --> 00:11:36,542 When reporters and investors 183 00:11:36,625 --> 00:11:39,750 asked for demonstrations, he faked them. 184 00:11:39,834 --> 00:11:41,458 To keep journalists sympathetic, 185 00:11:41,542 --> 00:11:43,667 he gave them stock in his company. 186 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:48,458 For four years, he pretended his invention was good to go, 187 00:11:48,542 --> 00:11:51,830 even while he scrambled to make it work. 188 00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:54,125 Then, just before his money and credit ran out, 189 00:11:54,208 --> 00:11:57,333 he solved the problem of how to keep the lights on. 190 00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:01,792 He was the first to practice the Silicon Valley art 191 00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:04,830 of "fake it till you make it." 192 00:12:06,166 --> 00:12:09,583 More than a hundred years after Edison's first movies, 193 00:12:09,667 --> 00:12:12,500 Elizabeth Holmes modeled her own ambitious career 194 00:12:12,583 --> 00:12:14,583 after the great American inventor, 195 00:12:14,667 --> 00:12:17,959 with a magical machine named after the man himself. 196 00:12:22,208 --> 00:12:25,625 It was obviously such an incredible story. 197 00:12:25,709 --> 00:12:28,583 The 19-year-old, the dropout, 198 00:12:28,667 --> 00:12:31,375 a woman creating this $9 billion 199 00:12:31,458 --> 00:12:33,667 innovative company. 200 00:12:34,458 --> 00:12:37,830 I went out there for four days: 201 00:12:37,166 --> 00:12:40,458 three interviewing her and one interviewing some other people. 202 00:12:40,542 --> 00:12:42,417 What are you working on? 203 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:44,959 When she was talking about some subject 204 00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:47,500 other than diagnostic testing, 205 00:12:47,583 --> 00:12:49,667 she was very unprepossessing, 206 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:51,750 very ingenuous. 207 00:12:51,834 --> 00:12:54,208 When she began to talk about... 208 00:12:54,291 --> 00:12:57,458 the mission, or the, you know, her business, 209 00:12:57,542 --> 00:12:59,417 then there was a shift, 210 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:03,375 and she became very, very focused, very intense. 211 00:13:03,458 --> 00:13:06,375 Firm control of all the facts. 212 00:13:06,458 --> 00:13:08,333 No question surprised her. 213 00:13:08,417 --> 00:13:12,959 Um... very impressive, and very idealistic. 214 00:13:17,917 --> 00:13:19,792 We were the first to put on the cover 215 00:13:19,875 --> 00:13:23,625 and write a major story about this amazing woman next to me. 216 00:13:23,709 --> 00:13:27,750 "This CEO Is Out for Blood." 217 00:13:29,166 --> 00:13:31,208 This is Elizabeth's second 218 00:13:31,291 --> 00:13:33,625 public live interview... 219 00:13:33,709 --> 00:13:36,792 Fortune invited her to the Most Powerful Women's conference, 220 00:13:36,875 --> 00:13:41,417 even though she wasn't the head of a Fortune 500 company. 221 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,208 And she was saying to us, 222 00:13:43,291 --> 00:13:47,792 "I'm the only one of these people that founded a company." 223 00:13:47,875 --> 00:13:50,417 You know, "They're CEOs, 224 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,625 "yeah, but I founded this company. 225 00:13:52,709 --> 00:13:56,125 "I invented what this company is about. 226 00:13:56,208 --> 00:13:57,667 I deserve to be here." 227 00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:59,510 I'll talk with people sometimes, they'll say, 228 00:13:59,583 --> 00:14:01,375 "Oh, you know, I want to start a business." 229 00:14:01,458 --> 00:14:04,375 And my question is always why, 230 00:14:04,458 --> 00:14:07,166 because there's gotta be a mission. 231 00:14:09,417 --> 00:14:11,667 I had heard about Theranos 232 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:14,333 and Elizabeth Holmes, a woman executive 233 00:14:14,417 --> 00:14:17,166 in the male-dominated Silicon Valley, 234 00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:18,625 who was starting a company 235 00:14:18,709 --> 00:14:21,417 with some real potential social good. 236 00:14:22,333 --> 00:14:24,458 I write a lot about disruption, 237 00:14:24,542 --> 00:14:28,125 and Theranos was aimed to be a disruptor 238 00:14:28,208 --> 00:14:30,208 of the established ways of doing things, 239 00:14:30,291 --> 00:14:31,834 the established, inefficient, 240 00:14:31,917 --> 00:14:34,500 and expensive ways of doing things. 241 00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:36,875 And she was going to herald 242 00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:40,458 a revolution in medical treatment in this country. 243 00:14:52,834 --> 00:14:54,917 The lab industry needed disrupting. 244 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,410 It was dominated by two companies: 245 00:14:57,125 --> 00:14:59,208 Quest and LabCorp. 246 00:14:59,291 --> 00:15:01,917 Between them, they controlled almost 80% of the market. 247 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,917 Their blood test prices were always high and never transparent. 248 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,375 They were sued for overcharging Medicaid and Medicare 249 00:15:09,458 --> 00:15:10,875 for billions of dollars. 250 00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:12,667 But the size of their operations, 251 00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:15,834 including the ability to do over a thousand different blood tests, 252 00:15:15,917 --> 00:15:18,500 made them difficult to challenge. 253 00:15:18,583 --> 00:15:21,667 Until Elizabeth Holmes and Edison. 254 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,830 She had built a staff of 700 people. 255 00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:30,410 Well, I went out to look at the Newark, California, facility, 256 00:15:30,125 --> 00:15:32,625 which was extraordinary. 257 00:15:47,917 --> 00:15:50,834 Well, you know, her story's so compelling. 258 00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:54,542 I mean, if you think about it, you go in and you see 259 00:15:54,625 --> 00:15:56,417 this woman lives in an apartment... 260 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,291 basically, she called her apartment a mattress. 261 00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:01,750 The only thing in the refrigerator was bottled water. 262 00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:03,625 She ate all the meals at the office. 263 00:16:03,709 --> 00:16:05,830 She slept four hours a day. 264 00:16:05,166 --> 00:16:08,250 She worked in the office till midnight or thereabouts. 265 00:16:08,333 --> 00:16:11,125 You ask, do you date? "No, I don't have ti... 266 00:16:11,208 --> 00:16:13,410 I'm married to Theranos." 267 00:16:13,125 --> 00:16:15,125 That was her... that's literally her words, 268 00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:16,959 what she said to me, and I believed it. 269 00:16:18,542 --> 00:16:22,250 You wear black outfits a lot. Why? 270 00:16:22,333 --> 00:16:25,291 Because in line with the... 271 00:16:25,375 --> 00:16:27,458 designing my life to be able to give 272 00:16:27,542 --> 00:16:30,000 every bit of energy I have to this, 273 00:16:30,830 --> 00:16:33,125 I have a closet that has a very large number 274 00:16:33,208 --> 00:16:35,417 of the exact same set of clothes, 275 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,000 and every single day, 276 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:39,750 I put the same thing on, and I don't have to think about it. 277 00:16:39,834 --> 00:16:42,208 Steve Jobs used to say that, too. 278 00:16:43,375 --> 00:16:45,208 He wore jeans. 279 00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:48,417 She was obviously, you know, 280 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,291 Steve Jobs was her hero. 281 00:16:50,375 --> 00:16:52,458 And I just felt, oh, well, she's a young person. 282 00:16:52,542 --> 00:16:57,750 You know, I'll give them their little hero worship thing. 283 00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:02,959 I'm a tremendous admirer of what Jobs did. 284 00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:05,000 I think he was a genius. 285 00:17:05,830 --> 00:17:06,667 I do have to disclose that 286 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:09,291 I've been in black turtlenecks since I was seven. 287 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:26,417 I want to talk for just a minute about 288 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:28,875 what it means to be in this company right now. 289 00:17:28,959 --> 00:17:35,542 I was sitting yesterday with the president of Brazil for lunch, 290 00:17:35,625 --> 00:17:39,166 and this woman had invited me, 291 00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:42,667 and Eric Schmidt from Google, and Mark Zuckerberg, 292 00:17:42,750 --> 00:17:46,458 and the Airbnb guys, and the Uber guys, and a bunch of other people, 293 00:17:46,542 --> 00:17:50,410 and she sits down at the table with all these people, 294 00:17:50,125 --> 00:17:53,830 and we all have the headphones on, translators, 295 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:57,542 and she says, "The strategic priority of Brazil 296 00:17:57,625 --> 00:18:00,500 "is to get access to low cost diagnostics 297 00:18:00,583 --> 00:18:02,792 "that can facilitate early detection 298 00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:05,583 and prevention and..." 299 00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:12,125 We're all kind of sitting there, and you can see, like, 300 00:18:12,208 --> 00:18:15,250 all the other CEOs' faces being like... 301 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,166 not wanting to be the ones in the spotlight, 302 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:20,309 and she kept on doing this for like an hour and a half. 303 00:18:20,333 --> 00:18:23,750 And so, of course, I'm trying to, you know, be humble, 304 00:18:23,834 --> 00:18:25,792 but I'm... 305 00:18:25,875 --> 00:18:27,417 When I first met her, 306 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,830 I thought she was really interesting. 307 00:18:29,166 --> 00:18:32,750 It was... It was hard to really get a sense of who she was, 308 00:18:32,834 --> 00:18:36,750 but in a way, I felt I idolized her in so many ways, 309 00:18:36,834 --> 00:18:39,166 based on, like, the little that I had read. 310 00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:41,417 Nice to meet you. I'm Elizabeth. 311 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:43,792 For being a woman in the sciences, 312 00:18:43,875 --> 00:18:45,417 being a woman in tech, 313 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,000 the fact that she started her own company, 314 00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:50,375 that really got me excited. 315 00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:53,291 You know, she was a really good idol to have. 316 00:18:53,375 --> 00:18:54,625 Thank you so much. 317 00:18:54,709 --> 00:18:56,875 In a sense, I was super naive and like, 318 00:18:56,959 --> 00:18:59,959 almost drank the Kool-Aid, like, a little too quickly, 319 00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:03,834 and was just more enthusiastic to be a part of the team. 320 00:19:03,917 --> 00:19:05,834 You all are part of something 321 00:19:05,917 --> 00:19:08,583 that is a revolution, and you're part of something 322 00:19:08,667 --> 00:19:11,166 that is going to change our world. 323 00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:14,417 What higher purpose is there in life 324 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:16,375 than to be able to be doing that? 325 00:19:22,542 --> 00:19:24,500 When I went on an interview, 326 00:19:24,583 --> 00:19:26,125 Elizabeth was there. 327 00:19:26,208 --> 00:19:27,834 And I was a little surprised, 328 00:19:27,917 --> 00:19:31,410 considering I would be the low man on the totem pole. 329 00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:33,875 I found out later there was no one 330 00:19:33,959 --> 00:19:36,333 that got past her in order to get hired. 331 00:19:36,417 --> 00:19:38,959 Um... 332 00:19:39,410 --> 00:19:42,834 I know this sounds odd, but my first impression was 333 00:19:42,917 --> 00:19:44,917 that she didn't blink. 334 00:19:47,417 --> 00:19:50,830 And so, I always wanted to make sure that I kept 335 00:19:50,166 --> 00:19:52,875 great eye contact 'cause I didn't want to be the one 336 00:19:52,959 --> 00:19:55,542 to look over, right? 337 00:19:55,625 --> 00:19:58,458 Uh, so, she was very intense. 338 00:20:04,959 --> 00:20:07,590 Comparing it to the other interviews that I had 339 00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:10,375 with other tech companies in the Bay Area, it was different. 340 00:20:10,458 --> 00:20:15,125 You know, they didn't tell me nearly as much about what they were doing. 341 00:20:15,208 --> 00:20:17,458 She never blinked during the interview. 342 00:20:18,792 --> 00:20:21,709 She did tell me about 343 00:20:21,792 --> 00:20:23,375 just the one drop of blood 344 00:20:23,458 --> 00:20:26,166 and it's a medical testing company. 345 00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:29,410 Um, they didn't say anything about how it worked, 346 00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:31,125 or what the technology was. 347 00:20:31,208 --> 00:20:35,125 They just said, "You'll be working with consumables," 348 00:20:35,208 --> 00:20:36,834 which was kind of vague. 349 00:20:36,917 --> 00:20:38,917 How did they describe the project? 350 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,709 They didn't. 351 00:20:41,792 --> 00:20:43,712 So, how did you know what you were signing on for? 352 00:20:43,792 --> 00:20:47,830 You know, I had a very vague idea, but I didn't. 353 00:20:47,166 --> 00:20:50,166 That's actually not that untypical in startup environments. 354 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:52,000 They want to keep what they're doing secret. 355 00:20:52,830 --> 00:20:55,166 The response of the major lab companies 356 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:57,166 was to say, "Well, we don't know 357 00:20:57,250 --> 00:20:59,267 - how they're doing what they're doing." And... - Exactly. 358 00:20:59,291 --> 00:21:00,851 And if it's so great, why don't they show it? 359 00:21:00,875 --> 00:21:02,309 There's too much secrecy is what they said. 360 00:21:02,333 --> 00:21:04,000 Right, that's exactly what they said. 361 00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:06,291 And, you know, our position on that is, first of all, 362 00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:08,417 we don't think that we need 363 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:12,830 to explain ourselves to competitive companies. 364 00:21:12,166 --> 00:21:16,333 What we're working to do is to invent an integrated solution 365 00:21:16,417 --> 00:21:18,750 where every person gets access 366 00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:23,750 to this wealth of information from tiny droplets of blood, 367 00:21:23,834 --> 00:21:26,834 and then see how they change over time. 368 00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:35,625 She talked some about currently, 369 00:21:35,709 --> 00:21:38,291 you get a blood test maybe once a year, 370 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:40,959 and so you get a snapshot of what's going on. 371 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:44,834 If you were to start doing it every month, say, 372 00:21:44,917 --> 00:21:46,625 you would get a movie. 373 00:21:48,709 --> 00:21:50,709 You have multiple frames from that movie, 374 00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:52,792 and you can begin to see the context 375 00:21:52,875 --> 00:21:55,417 of projecting where someone is heading. 376 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:59,875 You're seeing changes in laboratory data over time, 377 00:21:59,959 --> 00:22:03,792 and understanding the clinical significance of that. 378 00:22:03,875 --> 00:22:07,917 The data can be used in a more meaningful way. 379 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,500 It was personalized medicine. 380 00:22:09,583 --> 00:22:12,125 Maybe you could catch something very early. 381 00:22:12,208 --> 00:22:13,875 You know, you could catch an early cancer, 382 00:22:13,959 --> 00:22:17,166 or you could get... you know, when there was still time. 383 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:20,208 This was sort of the vast vision. 384 00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:23,458 So, the idea with the Edison was to stick 385 00:22:23,542 --> 00:22:26,208 the lab inside the box. 386 00:22:26,291 --> 00:22:29,000 Because it incorporates so many different disciplines, 387 00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:30,959 it's hard to pull this off. 388 00:22:32,375 --> 00:22:34,000 There's all these different components 389 00:22:34,830 --> 00:22:35,125 that go into the machine. 390 00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:37,542 There's a centrifuge, there's a... 391 00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:39,917 a little thing the samples go into. 392 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,410 There's a way to prick the blood. 393 00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,685 All these things were prototypes, right? 394 00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:46,792 The first thing is, you look at what the chemists are doing. 395 00:22:46,834 --> 00:22:48,333 - Right. - Right? 396 00:22:48,375 --> 00:22:50,351 Because you're automating what somebody is already doing. 397 00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:53,125 You're not inventing something totally new. 398 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,792 I'm going to have to have a kind of dance, let's say, right? 399 00:22:59,834 --> 00:23:02,542 I'm going to have to have this thing go to the place, 400 00:23:02,667 --> 00:23:04,750 pick up something, drop off something, 401 00:23:04,834 --> 00:23:06,500 mix something, etcetera. 402 00:23:08,375 --> 00:23:09,834 The idea was the pipette 403 00:23:09,959 --> 00:23:12,834 poked holes into these little plastic containers 404 00:23:12,959 --> 00:23:14,410 with reagents in them. 405 00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:16,917 It mixes some of the reagents with blood. 406 00:23:21,458 --> 00:23:23,101 My group was responsible for developing 407 00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:24,500 about 60 different tests, 408 00:23:24,542 --> 00:23:27,166 and trying to get those to work on the Edisons. 409 00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:29,750 The trick was how do you make it dependable, 410 00:23:29,834 --> 00:23:32,333 then how do you incorporate it into a bigger process 411 00:23:32,375 --> 00:23:34,917 that involves these 50 milliliter samples? 412 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,333 It was a complex device. 413 00:23:36,458 --> 00:23:38,792 You know, a lot of moving parts, and a complicated system. 414 00:23:38,834 --> 00:23:41,000 It's not easy to do all this stuff, so it was... 415 00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:42,434 You know, I figured we'd get there. 416 00:23:42,458 --> 00:23:45,250 We felt we were on the path 417 00:23:45,333 --> 00:23:47,667 to be able to make machines that could do this. 418 00:23:58,125 --> 00:24:01,405 Elizabeth Holmes, we're on the record unless you tell me not. 419 00:24:01,458 --> 00:24:04,458 Let me begin. When you think about yourself as a child... 420 00:24:04,542 --> 00:24:06,250 I had multiple interviews with her, 421 00:24:06,333 --> 00:24:10,000 but one of them was to go to a Chinese restaurant in Palo Alto. 422 00:24:10,830 --> 00:24:11,792 And it was really good food. 423 00:24:11,875 --> 00:24:15,542 I had the blessing of being able to figure out 424 00:24:15,625 --> 00:24:17,792 what I... 425 00:24:17,875 --> 00:24:21,750 Thank you...wanted to do very early. 426 00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:25,917 And I was very interested in the concept of creating things. 427 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,750 I must've been, like, seven, and I had a notebook 428 00:24:29,834 --> 00:24:33,166 of a complete design for a time machine. 429 00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:35,792 It was a very detailed drawing 430 00:24:35,875 --> 00:24:38,959 of all the functionality, in terms of the interface. 431 00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:41,333 I got really interested in the idea 432 00:24:41,417 --> 00:24:43,583 of creating and building something. 433 00:24:43,667 --> 00:24:46,583 But ultimately, it became clear to me 434 00:24:46,667 --> 00:24:49,417 that the vehicle of a business provides 435 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,830 the greatest tool for being able to affect change. 436 00:25:04,959 --> 00:25:07,291 I was very studious. 437 00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:09,542 I never really watched TV. 438 00:25:11,458 --> 00:25:14,875 As I went through school and went through high school, 439 00:25:14,959 --> 00:25:19,830 my best friends were... were books. 440 00:25:19,166 --> 00:25:22,125 I got into Moby Dick and The Iliad and The Odyssey 441 00:25:22,208 --> 00:25:24,208 at a pretty young age. 442 00:25:26,410 --> 00:25:29,625 Understanding how great people and great leaders 443 00:25:29,709 --> 00:25:31,917 led groups of people. 444 00:25:35,792 --> 00:25:39,166 So much changes in our society technologically, 445 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:44,208 but as humans, we don't change a lot, you know? 446 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,667 This is a high tech atmosphere around Stanford. 447 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:07,250 Internet, the startups, the biotech, and medicine. 448 00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:12,000 I started on the faculty here in 1984. 449 00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:14,000 I'm currently a tenured professor. 450 00:26:14,830 --> 00:26:15,750 And I was on boards of companies, 451 00:26:15,834 --> 00:26:17,500 many private and public companies, 452 00:26:17,583 --> 00:26:19,417 and I started a couple of companies. 453 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:21,834 So, I tend to be sought out 454 00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:23,667 by kids who have an interest in business. 455 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:26,166 And people have made fortunes. 456 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:28,417 Students, young people, 457 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:30,542 turn into multimillionaires. 458 00:26:30,625 --> 00:26:34,166 It makes for an odd morality. 459 00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:39,166 When I was at Stanford, I started to spend all my time 460 00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:41,750 thinking about how you could build something 461 00:26:41,834 --> 00:26:44,792 that would change what we know 462 00:26:44,875 --> 00:26:47,625 in terms of early detection and prevention. 463 00:26:48,417 --> 00:26:50,792 I filed my first patent. 464 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,375 One day, Elizabeth came to me 465 00:26:57,458 --> 00:26:59,291 and she described her idea. 466 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,625 She wanted to incorporate microfluidics 467 00:27:03,709 --> 00:27:07,291 and nanotechnology into a patch, 468 00:27:07,375 --> 00:27:09,830 where you could sample the blood, 469 00:27:09,166 --> 00:27:11,917 and detect an infection, 470 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,333 and then at that point, deliver antibiotics through it. 471 00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:20,750 Well, you can't do that. It's impossible, physically. 472 00:27:20,834 --> 00:27:23,410 Antibiotics are not potent. You cannot do that. 473 00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:25,667 There's a reason you have a big IV bag when... Okay. 474 00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:28,410 So I said, "Elizabeth, that's fun, 475 00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:29,959 but I don't think that's going to work." 476 00:27:32,166 --> 00:27:34,625 She was a 19-year-old. 477 00:27:34,709 --> 00:27:37,166 She never thought she had any limits. 478 00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:39,291 She was going to conquer the world. 479 00:27:40,125 --> 00:27:43,417 She came back twice, I think. 480 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,410 And I just really... 481 00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:47,458 "I try to help students, but I just feel I can't help you. 482 00:27:47,542 --> 00:27:49,458 "You're not listening, 483 00:27:49,542 --> 00:27:51,959 but I'll help you find someone else to talk to." 484 00:27:55,458 --> 00:27:58,792 This used to be my advisor's office. 485 00:27:58,875 --> 00:28:00,875 We got in. 486 00:28:00,959 --> 00:28:02,643 From the very first time I met her, 487 00:28:02,667 --> 00:28:04,792 it was very clear she was unusual. 488 00:28:04,875 --> 00:28:07,250 I've taught thousands of students, 489 00:28:07,333 --> 00:28:09,583 probably tens of thousands of students, 490 00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:12,125 at Stanford, and... 491 00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:13,667 I knew right away 492 00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:18,792 that I was dealing with something very, very different. 493 00:28:18,875 --> 00:28:21,625 Channing Robinson, the head of the science department 494 00:28:21,709 --> 00:28:24,959 at Stanford, leaves his tenured position to work for her? 495 00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:28,500 He just thought this woman was something special. 496 00:28:28,583 --> 00:28:30,375 You know, gazing into her eyes, 497 00:28:30,458 --> 00:28:34,834 and realizing that he was talking to the next... 498 00:28:34,917 --> 00:28:37,830 Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. 499 00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,500 There were some other names mentioned 500 00:28:39,583 --> 00:28:42,166 during the course of our conversation, like Archimedes. 501 00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:47,417 I actually, originally, did not intend to drop out of Stanford, 502 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,667 but I wasn't going to any classes, and so then... 503 00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:53,750 ...logistically, it just seemed like a waste of money. 504 00:28:54,917 --> 00:28:58,667 The question was, as a 19-year-old, how do you go about the process 505 00:28:58,750 --> 00:29:01,333 of convincing people that you know what you're doing, 506 00:29:01,417 --> 00:29:04,667 and that you can pull it off. Um... 507 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:06,667 I think the first piece is realizing 508 00:29:06,750 --> 00:29:09,667 that it's not necessarily about age, and... 509 00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:14,542 um, people, like Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates, 510 00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:15,709 and the Google guys, 511 00:29:15,792 --> 00:29:17,917 and Michael Dell, and Larry Ellison, 512 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,750 and others, have demonstrated that. 513 00:29:19,834 --> 00:29:22,166 You have to have the conviction 514 00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:24,709 in yourself to be able to make something happen 515 00:29:24,792 --> 00:29:27,830 because, ultimately, it's up to you. 516 00:29:33,792 --> 00:29:36,458 You know, I don't think I would want to create 517 00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:41,166 a society where people were not overconfident 518 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:43,208 in what they could achieve. 519 00:29:43,291 --> 00:29:45,166 Like who would open a restaurant 520 00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:48,417 if that was the case, or who would... 521 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:49,834 who would do a startup? 522 00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:52,417 But I think this is really the issue, 523 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,166 is to say how do you become a person of vision 524 00:29:56,250 --> 00:29:57,625 on one hand, 525 00:29:57,709 --> 00:30:00,410 and how do you sell that vision 526 00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:01,583 on the other hand, 527 00:30:01,667 --> 00:30:04,125 but you also want to stay... 528 00:30:04,208 --> 00:30:07,500 not realistic, but, you know, little closer to realistic 529 00:30:08,834 --> 00:30:10,291 when the task needs it. 530 00:30:10,375 --> 00:30:12,351 You have to be able not to buy your own bullshit. 531 00:30:12,375 --> 00:30:14,333 Yes. 532 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,166 You incorporate the company in '04. 533 00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:28,583 - Yeah. - What happened in the intervening nine years? 534 00:30:28,667 --> 00:30:30,709 Our work during that period of time 535 00:30:30,792 --> 00:30:33,830 was for pharmaceutical companies, 536 00:30:33,166 --> 00:30:37,250 and for developing applications for the military. 537 00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:39,750 But that model's going to evolve now 538 00:30:39,834 --> 00:30:42,333 'cause we're at another inflection point 539 00:30:42,417 --> 00:30:46,667 - in our life cycle... - But are you thinking about an IPO or... 540 00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,208 Well, we really believe that there's value 541 00:30:50,291 --> 00:30:51,792 in being a private company. 542 00:30:51,875 --> 00:30:56,792 It's allowed us to not have to talk about, 543 00:30:56,875 --> 00:31:01,250 you know, what we're doing until it's done and introduce, 544 00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:04,333 you know, incredible innovation without... 545 00:31:04,417 --> 00:31:07,792 Using just her story as the blueprint for success, 546 00:31:07,875 --> 00:31:09,959 Holmes would convince private investors 547 00:31:10,410 --> 00:31:12,500 to put up hundreds of millions of dollars 548 00:31:12,583 --> 00:31:16,458 without ever looking at audited financial statements. 549 00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:20,250 We like to think that investing is a rational equation, 550 00:31:20,333 --> 00:31:23,583 a careful balance sheet of risk and reward. 551 00:31:23,667 --> 00:31:25,333 But in fact, investors, 552 00:31:25,417 --> 00:31:27,410 particularly ones who come in early, 553 00:31:27,125 --> 00:31:29,410 are often guided by their gut. 554 00:31:29,125 --> 00:31:30,583 Instead of relying on facts, 555 00:31:30,667 --> 00:31:33,959 early investing can be more like a wing and a prayer. 556 00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:37,830 The word credit comes from the Latin word credo, 557 00:31:37,166 --> 00:31:39,959 which means "I believe." 558 00:31:40,410 --> 00:31:42,333 Some of the early believers included 559 00:31:42,417 --> 00:31:45,542 a former head of software at Apple, Avie Tevanian, 560 00:31:45,625 --> 00:31:48,250 Oracle's founder, Larry Ellison, 561 00:31:48,333 --> 00:31:51,917 and a founding investor of Oracle, Don Lucas. 562 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,410 They conferred respectability on Elizabeth, 563 00:31:54,125 --> 00:31:56,500 even though they had no record to go on, 564 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:59,375 just a vague belief that business and medicine 565 00:31:59,458 --> 00:32:01,542 were in her blood. 566 00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:04,375 I think she probably was 21 years old, 567 00:32:04,458 --> 00:32:06,166 had no background in business, 568 00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:09,125 but her great-grandfather was an entrepreneur. 569 00:32:09,208 --> 00:32:10,434 So, that's on the entrepreneur's side, 570 00:32:10,458 --> 00:32:11,685 but she was on the medical side. 571 00:32:11,709 --> 00:32:12,917 Ah, turns out later 572 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,500 the hospital in there, where they live 573 00:32:15,583 --> 00:32:17,750 is named after her great-uncle, 574 00:32:17,834 --> 00:32:21,959 who was involved with medicine, so she came by both of these... 575 00:32:22,458 --> 00:32:24,458 the two things that are necessary here, 576 00:32:24,542 --> 00:32:27,792 one medicine and the other entrepreneur... 577 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:30,458 quite naturally. 578 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,667 I remember the day Elizabeth came in, 579 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:37,208 full of vim and vigor, 580 00:32:37,291 --> 00:32:40,125 and said, "I'm dropping out of Stanford." 581 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:41,583 And I knew her parents, 582 00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:44,625 and I knew her and her brother as they were growing up. 583 00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:47,250 She was a good friend of my daughter's. 584 00:32:47,333 --> 00:32:48,750 I said, "Do your parents know 585 00:32:48,834 --> 00:32:50,393 you're dropping out of Stanford?" She said, 586 00:32:50,417 --> 00:32:53,250 "Yes, yes! And they agree, and it's a great thing. 587 00:32:53,333 --> 00:32:55,291 "And I learned at Stanford 588 00:32:55,375 --> 00:32:57,917 "how this whole health care thing is working, 589 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,750 and it's just not." 590 00:32:59,834 --> 00:33:02,000 And then she said, "I'm going to change health care 591 00:33:02,830 --> 00:33:04,792 as we know it." I was all over it. 592 00:33:04,875 --> 00:33:07,750 I thought that was a great opportunity. 593 00:33:08,333 --> 00:33:10,709 I mean, Elizabeth was a family friend. 594 00:33:10,792 --> 00:33:13,830 You'd known her since she was a little girl. 595 00:33:13,166 --> 00:33:14,625 Did that go into your thinking, 596 00:33:14,709 --> 00:33:16,291 in terms of your initial investment? 597 00:33:16,375 --> 00:33:20,417 No. We've been... I've been in the venture business a long time. 598 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:23,667 I was the first investor in Tesla, first investor in Skype, 599 00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:26,959 first investor in Baidu, first investor in Hotmail. 600 00:33:27,410 --> 00:33:28,583 I always invest early. 601 00:33:28,667 --> 00:33:30,875 I invest when I see a vision, 602 00:33:30,959 --> 00:33:32,333 I see the opportunity, 603 00:33:32,417 --> 00:33:36,417 and I see the person who I think can make it there. 604 00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:38,959 I mean, we invest in, you know, 605 00:33:39,410 --> 00:33:42,792 a girl and a dog, or two guys and a cat. 606 00:33:42,875 --> 00:33:46,830 We just say, "Is this person going to dedicate their life, 607 00:33:46,166 --> 00:33:49,333 and make something extraordinary happen?" 608 00:33:49,417 --> 00:33:52,709 And yes, in that case, she was that person. 609 00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:58,125 So, the reality is that data 610 00:33:58,208 --> 00:34:01,410 just doesn't sit in our mind 611 00:34:01,125 --> 00:34:03,625 as much as stories do. 612 00:34:03,709 --> 00:34:07,417 It's almost like the glue that takes all of the data, 613 00:34:07,917 --> 00:34:09,500 and even more important, 614 00:34:09,583 --> 00:34:13,125 stories have emotions that data doesn't. 615 00:34:13,208 --> 00:34:15,410 And emotions get people to... 616 00:34:15,125 --> 00:34:18,166 to do all kinds of things, good and bad. 617 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:23,208 And if you think about the people who invested in her 618 00:34:23,291 --> 00:34:25,208 with very little amount of data, 619 00:34:25,291 --> 00:34:28,000 it's about having an emotional appeal and about having trust, 620 00:34:28,830 --> 00:34:31,291 and believing the story, and being moved by this, 621 00:34:31,375 --> 00:34:33,500 and being able to tell themselves a story. 622 00:34:36,750 --> 00:34:39,267 For 10 years, we did this work. We didn't have a website. 623 00:34:39,291 --> 00:34:41,625 We never put out a press release. 624 00:34:41,709 --> 00:34:43,625 It was completely heads down. 625 00:34:43,709 --> 00:34:46,125 When we got to a point in which we realized 626 00:34:46,208 --> 00:34:50,410 that what we were doing could serve individuals, 627 00:34:50,125 --> 00:34:52,166 I wanted to find the people 628 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:55,458 who were just strategically brilliant. 629 00:34:57,208 --> 00:34:59,625 General Mattis, who was former 630 00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:02,834 CENTCON Commander, is one of our board members. 631 00:35:02,917 --> 00:35:04,709 Dick Kovacevich, who is 632 00:35:04,792 --> 00:35:07,750 the former CEO of Wells Fargo is another. 633 00:35:07,834 --> 00:35:10,410 Sam Nunn has done some incredible work 634 00:35:10,125 --> 00:35:13,458 on nuclear threats as well as biothreats. 635 00:35:13,542 --> 00:35:15,875 Bill Perry, former secretary of defense. 636 00:35:15,959 --> 00:35:18,792 Henry Kissinger, former secretary of state. 637 00:35:18,875 --> 00:35:20,542 And George Shultz, 638 00:35:20,625 --> 00:35:23,208 who was secretary of state 639 00:35:23,291 --> 00:35:28,000 and labor and secretary of treasury. 640 00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:30,959 About three years ago, I looked at her and I said, "Well, 641 00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:33,959 I'm about to have a meeting with a friend of my granddaughter." 642 00:35:35,583 --> 00:35:37,250 - Yes. - As soon as she started talking, 643 00:35:37,333 --> 00:35:38,917 I did a double take... 644 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,917 I first met Elizabeth in my grandfather's living room. 645 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,184 So, he had called me up and said that he was going to have 646 00:35:44,208 --> 00:35:47,417 some brilliant woman over to have a discussion. 647 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,830 He thought that I would be interested 648 00:35:50,166 --> 00:35:52,250 in coming, so I went to his house. 649 00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:54,250 It was me, my grandfather, Elizabeth, 650 00:35:54,333 --> 00:35:56,917 and Dianne Feinstein was there as well. 651 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,375 Elizabeth kind of pitched her dream of changing the way 652 00:36:01,458 --> 00:36:04,166 diagnostics is done, really revolutionizing the field. 653 00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:06,750 Yeah, I was totally gung-ho about Theranos. 654 00:36:06,834 --> 00:36:09,625 I was really excited about what she was talking about. 655 00:36:09,709 --> 00:36:12,208 I really wanted to know what the technology was. 656 00:36:12,834 --> 00:36:14,667 And I actually asked her, in that meeting, 657 00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:16,458 if I could intern there over the summer. 658 00:36:16,542 --> 00:36:18,583 I said, do you guys take interns? 659 00:36:18,667 --> 00:36:21,208 Like, I want to work on this. This sounds amazing. 660 00:36:21,291 --> 00:36:23,333 We think that... 661 00:36:24,410 --> 00:36:25,792 there's going to be a revolution 662 00:36:25,875 --> 00:36:27,583 in preventive medicine. 663 00:36:27,667 --> 00:36:31,166 I mean, he had a really close relationship with Elizabeth. 664 00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:34,750 She was almost like... becoming part of the family. 665 00:36:34,834 --> 00:36:38,458 She was coming to our birthday parties and Christmases. 666 00:36:38,542 --> 00:36:41,125 We think this is one of the most optimistic things 667 00:36:41,208 --> 00:36:42,625 out there 668 00:36:42,709 --> 00:36:45,875 about the health care system and its costs and its problems. 669 00:36:45,959 --> 00:36:49,709 You talk to George Shultz. He's a very impressive man. 670 00:36:49,792 --> 00:36:52,834 And I was impressed that he adopted her like a daughter. 671 00:36:52,917 --> 00:36:54,625 He really believed in her. 672 00:36:54,709 --> 00:36:57,166 From the outside, all you're thinking is, 673 00:36:57,250 --> 00:36:59,000 wow, what a board! 674 00:36:59,830 --> 00:37:01,000 Right? I mean, it's just impressive. 675 00:37:01,830 --> 00:37:03,583 And they were really... And I talked to most of them. 676 00:37:03,667 --> 00:37:05,787 They were impressed with... really impressed with her. 677 00:37:05,834 --> 00:37:07,976 This is General Mattis. I assume we're on the record, 678 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,101 unless you tell me not, and I'll shut off this recorder. 679 00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:11,625 - But... - Okay. 680 00:37:11,709 --> 00:37:13,750 When you think of Elizabeth, 681 00:37:13,834 --> 00:37:15,834 what are the first words that come to your mind? 682 00:37:15,917 --> 00:37:18,500 First is integrity, 683 00:37:18,583 --> 00:37:20,542 uh, competence, 684 00:37:20,625 --> 00:37:23,792 and competence is both technical, scientific, 685 00:37:23,875 --> 00:37:26,667 but also focused on human rights 686 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:29,208 in the most classical sense of what 687 00:37:29,291 --> 00:37:30,834 human rights are about. 688 00:37:30,917 --> 00:37:33,917 And all of a sudden, you have the ability to know 689 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,375 if someone is ill or not. I mean, 690 00:37:36,458 --> 00:37:39,583 literally, within minutes of taking... 691 00:37:39,667 --> 00:37:41,875 you know, a drop of blood. 692 00:37:41,959 --> 00:37:44,375 And I mean, she is really... 693 00:37:44,458 --> 00:37:47,959 a revolutionary in the truest sense. 694 00:37:49,291 --> 00:37:52,542 It was quite amazing to spend time with these people. 695 00:37:52,625 --> 00:37:54,875 They were talking about her as if she were Beethoven. 696 00:38:00,959 --> 00:38:03,375 As if she was this rare creature 697 00:38:03,458 --> 00:38:07,410 that maybe one in a century or two in a century come along, 698 00:38:07,125 --> 00:38:09,834 who really can change the world. 699 00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:14,875 And I remember when I interviewed Henry Kissinger, 700 00:38:14,959 --> 00:38:17,830 I didn't trust him on medical stuff, 701 00:38:17,166 --> 00:38:20,458 not to mention on Cambodia, but... 702 00:38:20,542 --> 00:38:21,917 But when I asked him about her, 703 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,208 he described... 704 00:38:23,291 --> 00:38:25,208 Excellent businesswoman. 705 00:38:25,291 --> 00:38:28,709 Let me see that I can put this on speaker for a minute. 706 00:38:28,792 --> 00:38:31,000 - Be easier for me. - Okay. 707 00:38:34,166 --> 00:38:36,542 Yeah, but I don't know how to do that. 708 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,875 You put it on ho... 709 00:38:39,959 --> 00:38:42,542 - How about it now? - I hear you loud and clear. 710 00:38:42,625 --> 00:38:44,166 - You okay? - Perfect. 711 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:47,333 What's your impression of how she runs the board? 712 00:38:56,792 --> 00:39:00,291 I'm told you once said that these board meetings, 713 00:39:00,375 --> 00:39:02,333 which go on all day... 714 00:39:10,959 --> 00:39:13,159 You know, whatever you think of Henry Kissinger, 715 00:39:13,208 --> 00:39:16,625 he's met a lot of leaders, he's met a lot of world leaders, 716 00:39:16,709 --> 00:39:18,291 he met a lot of corporate leaders. 717 00:39:18,375 --> 00:39:20,410 I thought he might be a judge, 718 00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:22,625 but the truth is that 719 00:39:22,709 --> 00:39:26,458 none of these people were really in a position to know what... 720 00:39:26,542 --> 00:39:29,792 - To judge 'cause they didn't have the qualifications. - Yeah. No. No. 721 00:39:29,875 --> 00:39:32,410 She didn't really want scientific input 722 00:39:32,125 --> 00:39:34,333 from what I could determine. 723 00:39:34,417 --> 00:39:36,667 Engineering a bit more 724 00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,792 'cause she was inventing an engineering device, 725 00:39:38,875 --> 00:39:40,250 but not medicine. 726 00:39:40,333 --> 00:39:43,333 She aligned herself with very powerful older men 727 00:39:43,417 --> 00:39:47,750 who seemed to succumb to a certain charm, and... 728 00:39:47,834 --> 00:39:51,375 those powerful men could influence people 729 00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:52,917 in the government, 730 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,458 influence the Department of Defense. 731 00:39:55,542 --> 00:39:59,375 When I asked her was this all about getting government contracts, 732 00:39:59,458 --> 00:40:01,667 she danced around my questions about that. 733 00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:04,000 Everything that we're doing 734 00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:07,333 may go into certain work we do for the military, 735 00:40:07,417 --> 00:40:09,834 which we really couldn't put on the record. 736 00:40:09,917 --> 00:40:12,166 Well, off the record, we were doing some work 737 00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:14,834 for the military, which we can talk about off the record. 738 00:40:14,917 --> 00:40:16,667 Why would that be off the record? 739 00:40:16,750 --> 00:40:19,000 You know, generally, our philosophy on these things is 740 00:40:19,830 --> 00:40:21,500 talk about it if there's a purpose to talking about it, 741 00:40:21,583 --> 00:40:22,750 and there just... 742 00:40:22,834 --> 00:40:25,000 So, could you say anything about 743 00:40:25,830 --> 00:40:27,458 the military contracts you have? I mean... 744 00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:31,375 No. 745 00:40:31,458 --> 00:40:34,830 When you... I'm going to make you feel guilty at some point. 746 00:40:34,166 --> 00:40:38,830 You already have. You're good at it too. 747 00:40:38,166 --> 00:40:40,542 In conversations, Elizabeth suggested 748 00:40:40,625 --> 00:40:43,410 that she had contracts with the military. 749 00:40:43,125 --> 00:40:44,834 In a mock-up of marketing materials, 750 00:40:44,917 --> 00:40:47,750 Theranos invented a quote from General Mattis 751 00:40:47,834 --> 00:40:49,709 about a battle plan to use Edisons 752 00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:52,583 on wounded soldiers in combat zones, 753 00:40:52,667 --> 00:40:54,417 but this never happened. 754 00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:57,875 Before permitting Theranos to use the machines on soldiers, 755 00:40:57,959 --> 00:41:01,000 Pentagon officials wanted to run their own tests, 756 00:41:01,830 --> 00:41:02,583 but Elizabeth declined. 757 00:41:02,667 --> 00:41:05,250 She had a policy of controlling demonstrations 758 00:41:05,333 --> 00:41:07,830 and tightly guarding access 759 00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:09,458 to the Edison prototypes. 760 00:41:09,542 --> 00:41:10,875 I pressed them 761 00:41:10,959 --> 00:41:14,830 repeatedly, and I wasn't allowed, and finally, 762 00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:17,375 I persisted in asking. "I need to see the machine." 763 00:41:17,458 --> 00:41:19,542 And she said to me, 764 00:41:19,625 --> 00:41:21,583 "All right, we'll let you see the machine, 765 00:41:21,667 --> 00:41:25,625 but you have to agree not to describe the machine." 766 00:41:34,583 --> 00:41:36,792 It was downstairs, 767 00:41:36,875 --> 00:41:40,625 in an area you couldn't see from all the glassed offices. 768 00:41:46,166 --> 00:41:49,250 The lab is a large, labyrinthian place 769 00:41:49,333 --> 00:41:51,875 bustling with chemists and technicians, 770 00:41:51,959 --> 00:41:54,410 and housing rows of machines, 771 00:41:54,125 --> 00:41:56,458 each easy for a single person to lift, 772 00:41:56,542 --> 00:41:59,417 in which the container of blood is placed. 773 00:42:00,709 --> 00:42:03,125 What exactly happens in the machine 774 00:42:03,208 --> 00:42:05,291 is treated as a state secret, 775 00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:07,917 and Holmes's description of the process 776 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,000 was comically vague. 777 00:42:10,917 --> 00:42:14,625 A chemistry is performed, 778 00:42:14,709 --> 00:42:16,750 so a chemical reaction occurs 779 00:42:16,834 --> 00:42:18,750 and generates a signal 780 00:42:18,834 --> 00:42:22,830 from the chemical interaction with the sample, 781 00:42:22,166 --> 00:42:25,830 which is then translated into a result... 782 00:42:25,166 --> 00:42:27,333 "Which is then reviewed by certified 783 00:42:27,417 --> 00:42:29,291 laboratory personnel." 784 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,625 End quote. She added that thanks to, quote... 785 00:42:33,709 --> 00:42:35,458 Miniaturization 786 00:42:35,542 --> 00:42:39,667 "and associated automation that we're able to... 787 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:41,834 handle these tiny samples. 788 00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:00,667 All right, so... 789 00:43:00,750 --> 00:43:02,542 Comments? Sunny? 790 00:43:04,830 --> 00:43:06,417 So, I just want to expand a little bit 791 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:08,667 on a comment that Elizabeth made. 792 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:12,250 You know, we are a very conservative company 793 00:43:12,333 --> 00:43:13,917 because we think 794 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,542 that you should get things done before you talk about them. 795 00:43:17,625 --> 00:43:20,208 Right? And that's the culture we have created. 796 00:43:20,291 --> 00:43:21,792 So, I just want all of you to remember 797 00:43:21,875 --> 00:43:23,795 that when we come to work every day that we carry 798 00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:27,500 that sense of mission in your hearts every single day... 799 00:43:27,583 --> 00:43:29,208 Sunny was very successful 800 00:43:29,291 --> 00:43:31,709 in the late '90s with a tech company 801 00:43:31,792 --> 00:43:33,375 that sold for a lot of money. 802 00:43:33,458 --> 00:43:35,643 He seemed kind of like a Mark Cuban character, potentially, to me, 803 00:43:35,667 --> 00:43:38,170 in some ways, where he was at the right place, the right time. 804 00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:40,917 Made a lot of money. 805 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,709 His expertise was software and IT. 806 00:43:43,792 --> 00:43:45,552 What we are doing is really, really difficult 807 00:43:45,625 --> 00:43:48,750 because we're going against an entire system 808 00:43:48,834 --> 00:43:51,542 that doesn't believe that prevention is possible. 809 00:43:51,625 --> 00:43:54,917 I always felt like Sunny was making a deal, you know? 810 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,417 Like, he knew the technology, but just enough to sell it. 811 00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:02,410 To him, this was another home run that he was going to hit. 812 00:44:03,417 --> 00:44:05,709 He was 49 and she was 30, 813 00:44:05,792 --> 00:44:08,917 but she was the dominant figure in that relationship. 814 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,875 And when he talked about her, 815 00:44:10,959 --> 00:44:12,959 he talked about her in a very deferential way, 816 00:44:13,410 --> 00:44:14,142 that she was kind of a genius. 817 00:44:14,166 --> 00:44:16,583 When he spoke about Elizabeth, 818 00:44:16,667 --> 00:44:20,583 he was really... reverential. 819 00:44:20,667 --> 00:44:25,208 "Elizabeth is the most important inventor of our times." 820 00:44:29,458 --> 00:44:33,375 You know, I think Sunny saw her as this iconic figure that he could never be, 821 00:44:33,458 --> 00:44:39,333 and so he, I think, found this vehicle for him to advance himself in her, 822 00:44:39,417 --> 00:44:41,542 and, you know, she was on board for it, too. 823 00:44:44,208 --> 00:44:47,917 She lived with him at some condo in Palo Alto. 824 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,291 I thought that there was definitely 825 00:44:50,375 --> 00:44:52,542 something going on behind the scenes there. 826 00:44:52,625 --> 00:44:54,125 They certainly would leave together, 827 00:44:54,208 --> 00:44:56,166 they'd come in at similar times. 828 00:44:56,250 --> 00:44:58,830 They're always talking to each other, 829 00:44:58,166 --> 00:45:00,375 offline, online, in meetings, 830 00:45:00,458 --> 00:45:02,875 outside of meetings. They were very close. 831 00:45:04,208 --> 00:45:06,750 It wasn't uncommon for Elizabeth and Sunny 832 00:45:06,834 --> 00:45:09,125 to go to the Silicon Valley airport 833 00:45:09,208 --> 00:45:10,333 and go off to some meeting. 834 00:45:10,417 --> 00:45:12,542 They were going to go sell this thing, 835 00:45:12,625 --> 00:45:15,208 go make a deal. 836 00:45:21,417 --> 00:45:25,458 Without disclosing their romantic relationship to investors, 837 00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:29,000 Elizabeth and Sunny flew off together to corporate presentations, 838 00:45:29,830 --> 00:45:33,458 touting the potential of the Edison prototypes. 839 00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:36,917 One company, Walgreens, loved the pitch. 840 00:45:38,410 --> 00:45:39,792 In this 2010 PowerPoint, 841 00:45:39,875 --> 00:45:43,410 Theranos showcased an early version of Edison, 842 00:45:43,125 --> 00:45:44,667 a portable blood testing machine 843 00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:48,917 that could be deployed in pharmacies all over the world. 844 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,625 Theranos boasted the device could, 845 00:45:50,709 --> 00:45:52,792 "eliminate the need for a lab," 846 00:45:52,875 --> 00:45:55,291 by doing up to 200 tests in minutes 847 00:45:55,375 --> 00:45:58,333 from a finger-prick drop of capillary blood. 848 00:45:58,417 --> 00:46:02,000 It wasn't true then, but once Walgreens signed a contract, 849 00:46:02,830 --> 00:46:04,959 Theranos struggled to make it true, constantly changing 850 00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:08,291 the machine's color, shape, and mechanics. 851 00:46:08,375 --> 00:46:10,583 Strangely, Walgreens never looked 852 00:46:10,667 --> 00:46:13,830 inside any version of the magic box 853 00:46:13,166 --> 00:46:17,291 to see if it could deliver what Theranos promised. 854 00:46:17,375 --> 00:46:19,375 There's a great Martin Luther King quote. 855 00:46:19,458 --> 00:46:21,792 "Take the first step in faith. 856 00:46:21,875 --> 00:46:23,583 "You don't have to see the whole staircase, 857 00:46:23,667 --> 00:46:25,208 just take the first step." Right? 858 00:46:25,291 --> 00:46:28,291 And this is... this is the first step. 859 00:46:29,291 --> 00:46:31,750 So, talk to me a little bit about the Edison machine. 860 00:46:31,834 --> 00:46:34,000 How would you say it was working in terms of 861 00:46:34,830 --> 00:46:35,792 the vision versus the reality? 862 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,208 Uh, poorly. 863 00:46:41,542 --> 00:46:43,222 We couldn't regulate temperature very well. 864 00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:46,830 We couldn't reproducibly transfer fluids. 865 00:46:46,166 --> 00:46:48,458 We had all sorts of design changes constantly 866 00:46:48,542 --> 00:46:49,935 that we were trying to fight against, 867 00:46:49,959 --> 00:46:52,709 so it was a comedy of errors in a lot of ways. 868 00:46:52,792 --> 00:46:54,875 The original concept was to make a machine 869 00:46:54,959 --> 00:46:57,333 that, at least then, the chemists could work on 870 00:46:57,417 --> 00:46:59,166 to further develop chemistry. 871 00:46:59,250 --> 00:47:02,291 Over time, we were able to run a sequence 872 00:47:02,375 --> 00:47:04,125 and we were able to get results. 873 00:47:04,208 --> 00:47:07,000 Getting results means, you know, 874 00:47:07,830 --> 00:47:10,250 I get a signal proportional to what I'm putting in. 875 00:47:10,333 --> 00:47:12,750 It doesn't mean it's ready for prime time, right? 876 00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:19,750 You're handling a lot of fluid in the machine. 877 00:47:19,834 --> 00:47:24,458 Things got blood spilled all over them and got gunky. 878 00:47:24,542 --> 00:47:26,125 Some of the donors that we had were, 879 00:47:26,208 --> 00:47:27,917 you know, just people off the street 880 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,709 who need money, and I imagine that, you know, 881 00:47:30,792 --> 00:47:32,417 there probably was a fair amount 882 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:34,125 of hepatitis and things like that. 883 00:47:34,208 --> 00:47:37,458 And the device would freeze up in the middle of running a test, 884 00:47:37,542 --> 00:47:41,375 and then I would have to reach in there with my hands. 885 00:47:41,458 --> 00:47:43,458 There were needles within the device 886 00:47:43,542 --> 00:47:45,583 that could puncture skin, 887 00:47:45,667 --> 00:47:47,000 and there's reagents 888 00:47:47,830 --> 00:47:49,834 and blood and everything spilling all over the place. 889 00:47:49,917 --> 00:47:52,458 Blood that's just sitting there in the bottom of the vessel, 890 00:47:52,542 --> 00:47:55,542 evaporating into the air in the room. 891 00:47:55,625 --> 00:47:57,792 It was a mess inside. 892 00:47:57,875 --> 00:48:00,208 Pieces of the device would literally fall off 893 00:48:00,291 --> 00:48:01,750 in the middle of testing. 894 00:48:01,834 --> 00:48:03,667 Centrifuges exploding inside of it 895 00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:06,830 and things like that. 896 00:48:06,166 --> 00:48:07,810 Obviously, they didn't want anybody 897 00:48:07,834 --> 00:48:10,542 to actually see what was going on in there. 898 00:48:12,291 --> 00:48:14,834 So, when we had demos, they would bring investors 899 00:48:14,917 --> 00:48:18,625 or executives from some company to a room which would have 900 00:48:18,709 --> 00:48:21,000 different styles of Edison they were prototyping. 901 00:48:25,875 --> 00:48:28,410 They would do a fingerstick on the executives, 902 00:48:28,125 --> 00:48:30,417 so they'd take a fingerstick of blood. 903 00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:35,125 They would put the blood into the cartridge, 904 00:48:35,208 --> 00:48:37,834 and then they would put the cartridge into this Edison. 905 00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:44,893 They'd walk the executives out of the room to go give them a tour, 906 00:48:44,917 --> 00:48:46,893 or to go have a meeting, or go have lunch or whatever, 907 00:48:46,917 --> 00:48:49,500 and immediately afterwards, an engineer would run in, 908 00:48:49,583 --> 00:48:51,423 grab the cartridge and bring it out to the lab, 909 00:48:51,458 --> 00:48:55,750 where my team would do the assays at the bench. 910 00:48:55,834 --> 00:48:59,291 We were on call, so this could be done in an hour. 911 00:48:59,375 --> 00:49:01,875 We got reasonable data every time, 912 00:49:01,959 --> 00:49:03,625 and then we would get those results, 913 00:49:03,709 --> 00:49:06,291 the engineer would run into the room with the results, 914 00:49:06,375 --> 00:49:08,184 and these guys would come back in and they'd say, 915 00:49:08,208 --> 00:49:10,583 "Well, here's your results from running our tests." 916 00:49:13,959 --> 00:49:16,875 We had listed on the webpage, like, 200 different assays, 917 00:49:16,959 --> 00:49:21,458 but we had no more than half of those actually validated to be working, 918 00:49:21,542 --> 00:49:25,250 even in the lab at that point, let alone on the Edisons. 919 00:49:25,333 --> 00:49:28,830 Because it's trying to do multiple analyses, 920 00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:31,250 you need so much hardware inside the machine, 921 00:49:31,333 --> 00:49:33,750 it was totally impractical. 922 00:49:33,834 --> 00:49:35,792 They were very adamant about 923 00:49:35,875 --> 00:49:39,250 the machine being this big. It's gotta be this big. 924 00:49:39,333 --> 00:49:41,125 And I said, 925 00:49:41,834 --> 00:49:43,291 "We can't do that. 926 00:49:43,375 --> 00:49:44,750 "The laws of physics just 927 00:49:44,834 --> 00:49:46,917 "are not going to permit us to cram all the stuff 928 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,583 "that we've decided needs to go in there into this little box. 929 00:49:49,667 --> 00:49:52,250 Can the box be bigger?" 930 00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:55,333 And a common response at Theranos 931 00:49:55,417 --> 00:49:56,750 was something along the lines 932 00:49:56,834 --> 00:49:58,208 of, "Well, maybe you're not... 933 00:49:58,291 --> 00:50:00,458 "maybe you're not a Silicon Valley person. 934 00:50:00,542 --> 00:50:02,823 "You should go work for some other company if you don't... 935 00:50:02,875 --> 00:50:04,142 "if you don't believe in the vision 936 00:50:04,166 --> 00:50:05,834 of the product." 937 00:50:05,917 --> 00:50:07,375 And what would start off 938 00:50:07,458 --> 00:50:10,542 as a very serious brainstorming meeting would turn into 939 00:50:10,625 --> 00:50:12,250 a two-hour conversation about 940 00:50:12,333 --> 00:50:15,625 the name of the cloud that's going to process the information. 941 00:50:15,709 --> 00:50:18,959 It's like, time out. How big does this box need to be 942 00:50:19,410 --> 00:50:20,792 to abide by the laws of thermodynamics, 943 00:50:20,875 --> 00:50:22,792 and actually function, and saves people's lives? 944 00:50:22,875 --> 00:50:26,166 Maybe that's more important than the name of the cloud 945 00:50:26,250 --> 00:50:28,208 that processes the information, 946 00:50:28,291 --> 00:50:30,542 which I think ended up being Yoda or something. 947 00:50:31,830 --> 00:50:33,709 - Was it Yoda? - I think so. 948 00:50:33,792 --> 00:50:37,500 What's your favorite sound from the movie Star Wars? 949 00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:39,792 Yoda. 950 00:50:39,875 --> 00:50:41,792 What does Yoda sound like? 951 00:50:41,875 --> 00:50:45,000 Yoda sounds like, "Do or do not. There is no try." 952 00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:51,333 You can't just bend your way around the laws of physics. 953 00:50:51,417 --> 00:50:53,583 You can't just have a great marketing campaign, 954 00:50:53,667 --> 00:50:55,500 and then get around these things. 955 00:50:57,583 --> 00:51:00,333 Sunny and Elizabeth, they didn't care 956 00:51:00,417 --> 00:51:02,917 that we figure out what's not working, or make sure 957 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,125 that we can actually solve these problems in a real way. 958 00:51:06,208 --> 00:51:09,410 They always seemed to think that everything could happen 959 00:51:09,125 --> 00:51:10,917 very fast, and if you said no, 960 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,000 then they just went around to find the next person 961 00:51:13,830 --> 00:51:14,125 who would say yes. 962 00:51:14,792 --> 00:51:17,667 And generally, they tended to start become younger 963 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:19,667 and less experienced, right? 964 00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:21,583 "We're going to disrupt. We don't want people 965 00:51:21,667 --> 00:51:23,959 "who are stuck in the old ways of actually, 966 00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:26,375 "you know, validating experiments, and, you know, 967 00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:29,667 doing things properly with documentation." 968 00:51:31,959 --> 00:51:34,625 One of those people who wanted things done properly 969 00:51:34,709 --> 00:51:36,125 was Ian Gibbons. 970 00:51:36,208 --> 00:51:39,208 The first experienced scientist hired by Theranos, 971 00:51:39,291 --> 00:51:41,250 he was an expert in blood testing 972 00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:44,417 and had done much of the work on the company's key patents, 973 00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:47,291 to which Elizabeth had attached her name. 974 00:51:48,125 --> 00:51:50,500 Ian was a Cambridge PhD. 975 00:51:50,583 --> 00:51:53,500 He knew things the rest of us didn't know. 976 00:51:53,583 --> 00:51:56,959 He would work with some of the younger chemists and scientists, 977 00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:58,434 and help them with their experiments, 978 00:51:58,458 --> 00:51:59,959 help them to design their experiments, 979 00:52:00,410 --> 00:52:02,417 help them to analyze their data, interpret their data, etc. 980 00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:05,709 He was just a wealth of knowledge, and it was, 981 00:52:05,792 --> 00:52:08,792 you know, at the time, it kind of evolved, I knew him for two years, 982 00:52:08,875 --> 00:52:12,410 and my opinion of him evolved only just to be better 983 00:52:12,125 --> 00:52:14,476 because he was just trying to make the best of his situation. 984 00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:18,458 Like, what I got to see there, I got to see how marginalized he was. 985 00:52:19,291 --> 00:52:20,834 So, in about 2012, 986 00:52:20,917 --> 00:52:22,583 Ian didn't have an office anymore. 987 00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:24,834 I think he felt slighted by that. 988 00:52:24,917 --> 00:52:28,709 He wasn't involved with decision-making. 989 00:52:28,792 --> 00:52:32,166 He would look at data and he said things were not working. 990 00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:35,375 Ian really got into bad shape with Sunny... 991 00:52:35,458 --> 00:52:37,250 both Sunny and Elizabeth, 992 00:52:37,333 --> 00:52:41,333 because there's so many things wrong with that technology. 993 00:52:42,625 --> 00:52:46,417 And isn't that the point of someone like that being there, 994 00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,792 to tell them why it wasn't going to work? 995 00:52:49,875 --> 00:52:53,166 In early 2013, Theranos tried to prevent Ian 996 00:52:53,250 --> 00:52:55,875 from having to testify in a patent lawsuit. 997 00:52:55,959 --> 00:52:58,125 If he were to give evidence that Elizabeth wasn't 998 00:52:58,208 --> 00:52:59,709 the inventor she claimed to be, 999 00:52:59,792 --> 00:53:02,959 some of the company's patents might be invalidated. 1000 00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:05,410 As the date of his deposition approached, 1001 00:53:05,125 --> 00:53:08,166 he drank heavily and fell into a deep depression, 1002 00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:11,375 afraid that honesty might cost him his job. 1003 00:53:12,166 --> 00:53:14,291 Some time in 2013, 1004 00:53:14,375 --> 00:53:17,000 he wasn't in work anymore. 1005 00:53:17,830 --> 00:53:18,542 Elizabeth told him to stay at home 1006 00:53:18,625 --> 00:53:20,750 because I guess he was saying things aren't working. 1007 00:53:20,834 --> 00:53:22,208 That was what the story I was told. 1008 00:53:22,291 --> 00:53:25,959 Ian asked me if he thought that he was going to be fired, 1009 00:53:26,410 --> 00:53:28,410 and I told him yes. 1010 00:53:28,125 --> 00:53:29,834 Unfortunately. 1011 00:53:29,917 --> 00:53:32,959 And that was the night he killed himself. 1012 00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:37,166 He was so distraught over this stupid, um... 1013 00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:39,625 inter... uh, this... 1014 00:53:39,709 --> 00:53:42,542 patent case, misappropriation case, 1015 00:53:43,830 --> 00:53:48,333 and... not knowing what he was going to do with the rest of his life, 1016 00:53:48,417 --> 00:53:50,959 and that's why he committed suicide. 1017 00:53:51,667 --> 00:53:53,583 What was the reaction of the company 1018 00:53:53,667 --> 00:53:56,166 after Ian committed suicide? 1019 00:53:56,250 --> 00:54:00,000 Um, I don't know because they never communicated with me, 1020 00:54:00,830 --> 00:54:04,667 except to ask me to send back his confidential stuff. 1021 00:54:06,917 --> 00:54:11,291 I brought back his documents that he had at home, 1022 00:54:13,410 --> 00:54:15,291 and left them at the front desk. 1023 00:54:16,625 --> 00:54:19,417 Did you ever hear from Elizabeth Holmes again? 1024 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:21,125 No. 1025 00:54:23,125 --> 00:54:26,208 If today were my last day on this Earth, 1026 00:54:26,291 --> 00:54:29,834 and I could say that 1027 00:54:29,917 --> 00:54:31,542 the people who've gone through hell 1028 00:54:31,625 --> 00:54:33,750 in being able to just get the test done 1029 00:54:33,834 --> 00:54:36,959 that they need to get care now don't... 1030 00:54:37,625 --> 00:54:40,417 I've done something in this world that 1031 00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:42,460 has made it a little bit of a better place, right? 1032 00:54:42,542 --> 00:54:45,000 But you've got to be protective about patent and all of that. 1033 00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:47,500 - We do... - But do you have something to worry about, 1034 00:54:47,583 --> 00:54:49,375 obviously, competitive businesses 1035 00:54:49,458 --> 00:54:51,709 always concerned about, you know, 1036 00:54:51,792 --> 00:54:55,542 - the ideas incorporated into products. - Sure. 1037 00:54:55,625 --> 00:54:57,750 You have to be on version 10 1038 00:54:57,834 --> 00:54:59,542 by the time anybody else is on version one. 1039 00:54:59,625 --> 00:55:01,208 - Yes. - And that's... 1040 00:55:01,291 --> 00:55:03,208 that's what our whole business is about, so... 1041 00:55:03,291 --> 00:55:04,583 So, you're paranoid? 1042 00:55:04,667 --> 00:55:06,750 - And you have to be. - We try to be. Yeah. 1043 00:55:06,834 --> 00:55:09,291 We want to be the most paranoid people on the planet. 1044 00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:10,583 Absolutely. Yeah. 1045 00:55:14,834 --> 00:55:16,208 For last two years, 1046 00:55:16,291 --> 00:55:18,875 year and a half, we come under attack, 1047 00:55:18,959 --> 00:55:20,709 you know, from outside, and... 1048 00:55:20,792 --> 00:55:22,834 it's usually Quest Diagnostics. 1049 00:55:22,917 --> 00:55:25,959 Their entire product strategy is lies, built around 1050 00:55:26,410 --> 00:55:29,667 getting people sick and then living off of their diseases. 1051 00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:31,792 And we are trying to change that, right? 1052 00:55:31,875 --> 00:55:33,834 So, it's really important that you all understand 1053 00:55:33,917 --> 00:55:37,834 that what we are doing here is so disruptive 1054 00:55:37,917 --> 00:55:40,166 that we will always be attacked. 1055 00:55:40,208 --> 00:55:42,625 The paranoia seemed to come from the belief that 1056 00:55:42,709 --> 00:55:45,142 someone's going to beat us to it, or someone's going to steal our ideas, 1057 00:55:45,166 --> 00:55:46,846 or we're not going to get the whole market. 1058 00:55:46,875 --> 00:55:49,166 There's a healthy degree of paranoia and secrecy, 1059 00:55:49,291 --> 00:55:51,291 but this was well beyond that. 1060 00:55:52,875 --> 00:55:54,458 There was security. 1061 00:55:54,542 --> 00:55:57,291 You couldn't go walk up into her office. 1062 00:55:57,375 --> 00:55:59,208 That just doesn't happen. 1063 00:55:59,291 --> 00:56:02,333 She had bulletproof glass on their exterior windows. 1064 00:56:02,417 --> 00:56:04,667 There were bodyguards waiting outside, 1065 00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:06,834 you know, couple guys at the front lobby. 1066 00:56:06,917 --> 00:56:10,125 And that increased more and more later on. 1067 00:56:10,208 --> 00:56:13,917 But, yeah, her and Sunny walk in at the same time every morning. 1068 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,750 "Eagle One, Eagle Two's on their way." 1069 00:56:16,834 --> 00:56:19,917 And soon as they start pulling in, "Okay, be ready. 1070 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,208 Have the doors open." 1071 00:56:22,291 --> 00:56:24,667 She was Eagle One, Sunny was Eagle Two. 1072 00:56:33,291 --> 00:56:34,500 Sunny supposedly 1073 00:56:34,625 --> 00:56:38,125 tracked all the key card entries and exits, 1074 00:56:38,208 --> 00:56:40,208 so you would be identified each time 1075 00:56:40,291 --> 00:56:42,458 you went into any area. 1076 00:56:45,830 --> 00:56:46,583 We would send e-mails, 1077 00:56:46,667 --> 00:56:49,208 not CC Sunny or Elizabeth, 1078 00:56:49,291 --> 00:56:52,125 and we would get a response back from Sunny. 1079 00:56:52,208 --> 00:56:55,125 And I remember that was a very big turning point for me, 1080 00:56:55,208 --> 00:56:58,917 where I was like, "You are being monitored. You are being watched." 1081 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,792 I found out that I was being keystroked. 1082 00:57:01,875 --> 00:57:03,792 That means that anything that I typed 1083 00:57:03,875 --> 00:57:06,500 was being watched internally. 1084 00:57:06,583 --> 00:57:07,917 It seems kind of extreme 1085 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,375 for a receptionist, doesn't it? 1086 00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:12,917 - Did that happen to you anywhere else? - No. 1087 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,166 And, of course, nondisclosure agreements had to be signed. 1088 00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:17,750 A giant stack of paperwork 1089 00:57:17,834 --> 00:57:20,542 saying you can't speak poorly about the company, 1090 00:57:20,625 --> 00:57:23,458 you're legally liable for any detriment caused 1091 00:57:23,542 --> 00:57:25,742 to the company. It's like, who's writing these contracts 1092 00:57:25,792 --> 00:57:27,500 and what are they trying to hide? 1093 00:57:27,583 --> 00:57:29,903 We weren't supposed to tell our families what we did. 1094 00:57:29,959 --> 00:57:31,709 We weren't supposed to talk about anything 1095 00:57:31,792 --> 00:57:33,333 that went on inside of Theranos. 1096 00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:35,417 Then, after a while, 1097 00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,500 people became paranoid of one another. 1098 00:57:38,583 --> 00:57:40,667 We became much more siloed. 1099 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:43,875 Walking down the hallway, you'd say hi and the person would look 1100 00:57:43,959 --> 00:57:46,625 at the ceiling or the floor or anything to avoid eye contact 1101 00:57:46,709 --> 00:57:48,291 and not acknowledge you back. 1102 00:57:48,375 --> 00:57:50,559 Then the next person and the next person, and then you'd notice, 1103 00:57:50,583 --> 00:57:54,333 there'd be whole groups that just wouldn't... you were invisible to them. 1104 00:57:54,417 --> 00:57:57,208 It was very hard to communicate information sometimes 1105 00:57:57,291 --> 00:57:59,417 because there were so many blockades and silos 1106 00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:01,208 and this emphasis on secrecy. 1107 00:58:01,291 --> 00:58:03,583 If the people from the chemistry team could talk 1108 00:58:03,667 --> 00:58:06,875 about what was coming next from the engineering team, 1109 00:58:06,959 --> 00:58:09,519 they would've said, "Well, that's not going to solve the problem," 1110 00:58:09,583 --> 00:58:13,000 but since everyone was working on it separately, 1111 00:58:13,830 --> 00:58:14,917 they could all keep working forever 1112 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,125 without actually solving anything. 1113 00:58:18,875 --> 00:58:21,625 The mantra in Silicon Valley is, "Move fast, break things," 1114 00:58:21,709 --> 00:58:23,375 and that is really dangerous 1115 00:58:23,458 --> 00:58:26,410 when people's lives are in the balance. 1116 00:58:26,125 --> 00:58:29,125 Silicon Valley is really good at making 1117 00:58:29,208 --> 00:58:31,166 a web-based e-mail client, 1118 00:58:31,250 --> 00:58:35,830 or really great at making a chat app with emojis on it. 1119 00:58:35,166 --> 00:58:37,184 A little mile when you kind of think about 1120 00:58:37,208 --> 00:58:39,750 what is all in that thing you're holding. 1121 00:58:39,834 --> 00:58:42,250 But Silicon Valley is trying to do things 1122 00:58:42,333 --> 00:58:44,667 where people's lives are on the line. 1123 00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:46,350 We're trying to make autonomous vehicles. 1124 00:58:46,417 --> 00:58:48,333 We're trying to make medical devices. 1125 00:58:48,417 --> 00:58:51,125 We're trying to do these things that if you don't do it right, 1126 00:58:51,208 --> 00:58:53,333 quite frankly, people can die. 1127 00:58:53,417 --> 00:58:57,291 You need to approach it with a different lens. 1128 00:58:57,375 --> 00:58:59,667 The problem is that when you're developing the future, 1129 00:58:59,750 --> 00:59:01,959 you don't know what the impact is going to be 1130 00:59:02,410 --> 00:59:04,291 because no one's seen this before. 1131 00:59:04,375 --> 00:59:07,834 And the testing ground is often just the general public. 1132 00:59:20,542 --> 00:59:23,542 In 2013, Theranos went live, 1133 00:59:23,625 --> 00:59:25,542 testing real patients in Arizona 1134 00:59:25,625 --> 00:59:27,792 as part of a partnership with Walgreens. 1135 00:59:28,542 --> 00:59:30,333 It was a risky move. 1136 00:59:30,417 --> 00:59:32,410 The Edison machines had problems, 1137 00:59:32,125 --> 00:59:35,875 and they weren't approved by regulators for in-store testing. 1138 00:59:35,959 --> 00:59:37,709 But Theranos was running out of money 1139 00:59:37,792 --> 00:59:41,333 and needed the Walgreens deal to attract new investors. 1140 00:59:41,417 --> 00:59:43,959 So, Elizabeth sold Walgreens on a stopgap plan 1141 00:59:44,410 --> 00:59:47,500 to launch the Wellness Centers without the Edisons. 1142 00:59:51,250 --> 00:59:53,208 Instead of testing blood on-site, 1143 00:59:53,291 --> 00:59:55,750 patients' samples would be sent to Palo Alto, 1144 00:59:55,834 --> 00:59:59,417 where Theranos had hastily constructed a clinical lab. 1145 00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:02,000 Many of the technicians were inexperienced. 1146 01:00:02,830 --> 01:00:05,250 When one lab director quit, Theranos replaced him 1147 01:00:05,333 --> 01:00:07,500 with a dermatologist. 1148 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:10,291 Due in part to the Walgreens launch, 1149 01:00:10,375 --> 01:00:11,750 Theranos was able to raise 1150 01:00:11,834 --> 01:00:14,291 over $400 million from new investors, 1151 01:00:14,375 --> 01:00:17,458 like the Walton family, Betsy DeVos, 1152 01:00:17,542 --> 01:00:19,333 the owner of the New England Patriots, 1153 01:00:19,417 --> 01:00:23,208 and Rupert Murdoch, who put up $125 million. 1154 01:00:24,625 --> 01:00:26,000 To investors and patients, 1155 01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:29,417 it seemed like the system was working as advertised. 1156 01:00:34,583 --> 01:00:37,208 The plan was launched in Arizona 1157 01:00:37,291 --> 01:00:39,291 as if it's a nationwide campaign, 1158 01:00:39,375 --> 01:00:43,410 and then take key markets and roll it out across the country. 1159 01:00:44,792 --> 01:00:47,542 I wasn't an engineer. I wasn't a scientist. 1160 01:00:47,625 --> 01:00:49,166 I wasn't in R&D. 1161 01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:52,917 I was there to create a consumer brand. 1162 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:57,417 We came up with three adjectives to describe Theranos: 1163 01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,709 simple, human, and optimistic. 1164 01:01:01,875 --> 01:01:03,917 Because there are so many barriers 1165 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,917 to getting your blood drawn, 1166 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,375 whether it's fear of needles, 1167 01:01:07,458 --> 01:01:09,500 or fear of finding out the results, 1168 01:01:09,875 --> 01:01:11,375 living far away, can't afford it. 1169 01:01:11,458 --> 01:01:13,830 There's just a lot of barriers. 1170 01:01:13,166 --> 01:01:15,291 It's like, people that have this 1171 01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:19,166 fear or this angst or don't like it, let's convert them. 1172 01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:22,542 So, I hired Errol Morris. 1173 01:01:23,542 --> 01:01:24,542 Errol worked with Apple. 1174 01:01:24,625 --> 01:01:26,875 Did a lot of great work with Apple. 1175 01:01:26,959 --> 01:01:29,291 And Elizabeth was taken by that. 1176 01:01:29,375 --> 01:01:31,834 This could be potentially the Apple of health care. 1177 01:01:31,917 --> 01:01:33,000 Exactly. 1178 01:01:33,830 --> 01:01:36,500 - I'm a fan. - Well, likewise. 1179 01:01:40,917 --> 01:01:42,000 We did casting. 1180 01:01:42,830 --> 01:01:44,959 Real people that have all these issues. 1181 01:01:45,410 --> 01:01:47,500 We did also reach out to existing Theranos customers, 1182 01:01:47,583 --> 01:01:50,583 and had several of them come and tell their real story 1183 01:01:50,667 --> 01:01:52,291 and their experience with Theranos. 1184 01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:53,917 - Hello! - Hi. 1185 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,959 Thank you for coming in. 1186 01:01:57,125 --> 01:01:58,959 A-mark. 1187 01:01:59,410 --> 01:02:00,917 So, as usual, I have no idea 1188 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,750 what questions to ask or where to start. 1189 01:02:05,709 --> 01:02:07,208 I think we'll figure it out. 1190 01:02:08,583 --> 01:02:10,709 There are so many people that don't have insurance 1191 01:02:10,792 --> 01:02:12,375 and can't afford insurance. 1192 01:02:12,458 --> 01:02:13,875 I was going to doctors, 1193 01:02:13,959 --> 01:02:15,935 and I couldn't afford it. I was paying out of pocket. 1194 01:02:15,959 --> 01:02:18,333 If you're trying to live a life, it gets in the way of it. 1195 01:02:18,417 --> 01:02:19,935 And if I could receive this information, 1196 01:02:19,959 --> 01:02:22,792 without having to spend all of this money along the way, 1197 01:02:22,875 --> 01:02:24,166 that would be amazing. 1198 01:02:24,250 --> 01:02:26,792 Eight hundred dollars for a series of blood tests? 1199 01:02:26,875 --> 01:02:28,959 - It can be pretty stressful. - It's expensive. 1200 01:02:29,410 --> 01:02:30,709 It's ridiculous. 1201 01:02:36,830 --> 01:02:38,417 Once they went live in Arizona... 1202 01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:40,142 - Right. - ...dealing now with real patients... 1203 01:02:40,166 --> 01:02:42,000 - Right. - ...as opposed to R&D... 1204 01:02:42,830 --> 01:02:44,458 - That's right. Yes. - ...you know, 1205 01:02:44,542 --> 01:02:46,583 then you begin to wonder, like, 1206 01:02:46,667 --> 01:02:49,830 - is it... - Well, I think here's... 1207 01:02:49,166 --> 01:02:51,830 my context for this is, 1208 01:02:51,208 --> 01:02:52,959 you know, go back to Jobs for a minute, 1209 01:02:53,410 --> 01:02:54,834 and all the people that said no to him, 1210 01:02:54,917 --> 01:02:56,583 and he refused no, 1211 01:02:56,667 --> 01:02:59,417 and did it anyway and proved everyone wrong. 1212 01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:03,291 So, my measure of success at that level, 1213 01:03:03,375 --> 01:03:04,834 a visionary, 1214 01:03:04,917 --> 01:03:06,291 owns his own company, 1215 01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:08,375 in creating products that change the world, 1216 01:03:08,458 --> 01:03:10,959 he did not give up or give in ever. 1217 01:03:11,830 --> 01:03:13,208 So, that was my measure of success. 1218 01:03:13,291 --> 01:03:17,830 Now, on patients, that's a whole other thing. 1219 01:03:21,166 --> 01:03:23,830 In many states, patients aren't allowed 1220 01:03:23,125 --> 01:03:25,458 to order their own lab tests without a prescription. 1221 01:03:25,542 --> 01:03:29,625 Doctors are supposed to provide guidance and oversight. 1222 01:03:29,667 --> 01:03:31,834 But Elizabeth lobbied the state of Arizona 1223 01:03:31,959 --> 01:03:35,458 to pass a law allowing patients to order lab tests 1224 01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:37,667 without consulting doctors. 1225 01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:40,458 Giving people the right 1226 01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,830 to obtain a laboratory test 1227 01:03:43,125 --> 01:03:45,375 will, by definition, 1228 01:03:45,458 --> 01:03:49,830 begin the process of enabling them to engage 1229 01:03:49,166 --> 01:03:51,830 in their health. 1230 01:03:51,166 --> 01:03:53,625 Ms. Holmes, you are magnificent, 1231 01:03:53,667 --> 01:03:55,625 and there isn't a question 1232 01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:58,834 any of us could ever ask that you haven't answered 1233 01:03:58,959 --> 01:04:01,830 20 or 30 times before. 1234 01:04:02,291 --> 01:04:05,875 This law would allow you to order your own blood work, 1235 01:04:05,959 --> 01:04:07,291 and you get the results. 1236 01:04:07,375 --> 01:04:10,500 This is what Theranos puts out. 1237 01:04:10,583 --> 01:04:11,500 It's a menu. 1238 01:04:11,583 --> 01:04:13,750 You kind of order à la carte, 1239 01:04:13,834 --> 01:04:16,000 but there are some cautions raised 1240 01:04:16,830 --> 01:04:17,959 from the medical community. 1241 01:04:19,417 --> 01:04:21,184 You can't just look at a lab. 1242 01:04:21,208 --> 01:04:24,830 You have to look at the whole patient, the whole person. 1243 01:04:24,166 --> 01:04:26,583 We can't write a prescription for somebody 1244 01:04:26,667 --> 01:04:30,125 that we haven't done a physical exam or have seen, 1245 01:04:30,208 --> 01:04:31,917 so it kind of was like, 1246 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,542 how are we going to deal with this? 1247 01:04:34,625 --> 01:04:36,625 Low cost was very interesting to the patients, 1248 01:04:36,709 --> 01:04:40,250 but then also being able to order their own labs, 1249 01:04:40,333 --> 01:04:42,830 and they really liked that. 1250 01:04:43,291 --> 01:04:46,834 What made me concerned was, as a physician, 1251 01:04:46,917 --> 01:04:48,717 you can call the lab and ask simple questions, 1252 01:04:48,792 --> 01:04:52,830 and these are questions that we would ask any lab. 1253 01:04:52,166 --> 01:04:55,830 But Theranos, they weren't very transparent. 1254 01:04:55,875 --> 01:04:57,250 We tried to tell patients that, 1255 01:04:57,333 --> 01:05:00,500 "Listen, we're not getting a lot of information 1256 01:05:00,583 --> 01:05:02,166 "about how they do their testing, 1257 01:05:02,250 --> 01:05:04,959 and so we're kind of unsure of them." 1258 01:05:05,834 --> 01:05:10,667 But then, Theranos started giving out vouchers or gift cards 1259 01:05:10,750 --> 01:05:13,792 to get labs, free labs done there. 1260 01:05:13,875 --> 01:05:17,250 And so it just kind of... exploded. 1261 01:05:17,333 --> 01:05:19,000 Mom, you really are an important part 1262 01:05:19,830 --> 01:05:21,830 of our family because... 1263 01:05:22,959 --> 01:05:25,542 we really love you so much. 1264 01:05:25,625 --> 01:05:27,417 Your health is really important to us. 1265 01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:30,500 The kids adore you. 1266 01:05:30,583 --> 01:05:32,375 Estábien, chiquita. 1267 01:05:32,458 --> 01:05:33,792 Theranos gift cards. 1268 01:05:33,875 --> 01:05:35,250 Because nothing is more important 1269 01:05:35,333 --> 01:05:36,875 than the health of those you love. 1270 01:05:38,417 --> 01:05:39,768 Marker. 1271 01:06:00,208 --> 01:06:03,375 Because of my extensive background in phlebotomy, 1272 01:06:03,458 --> 01:06:05,792 they offered me the trainer job. 1273 01:06:05,875 --> 01:06:08,709 Basically, I was training the Walgreens technicians 1274 01:06:08,792 --> 01:06:12,375 and pharmacist to do the fingerstick process because... 1275 01:06:13,583 --> 01:06:15,959 no one at Walgreens had ever 1276 01:06:16,410 --> 01:06:18,750 handled blood or bodily fluids. 1277 01:06:18,834 --> 01:06:21,125 So, talking about 1278 01:06:21,208 --> 01:06:23,792 what do you do in case of an exposure and... 1279 01:06:23,875 --> 01:06:26,830 how do you handle adolescents, 1280 01:06:26,166 --> 01:06:28,917 um, you know, just everything. 1281 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,709 What do you do if someone faints? 1282 01:06:35,792 --> 01:06:37,792 Our goal is to be within five miles 1283 01:06:37,875 --> 01:06:41,792 of every person's home through the Walgreens nationally. 1284 01:06:42,625 --> 01:06:46,625 Our success will be in being able to make it possible 1285 01:06:46,709 --> 01:06:50,125 for no one to ever have to go through the process 1286 01:06:50,208 --> 01:06:53,500 of being stabbed by a big needle to get blood anymore, 1287 01:06:53,583 --> 01:06:56,583 and be able to begin to get access to this lab... 1288 01:06:56,667 --> 01:06:58,625 As I was doing my research, 1289 01:06:58,709 --> 01:07:00,625 they had about 90 tests, 1290 01:07:00,709 --> 01:07:03,166 and by the time I was ready to publish, 1291 01:07:03,250 --> 01:07:05,417 they had over 200. 1292 01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:06,792 I wondered at the time 1293 01:07:06,875 --> 01:07:09,667 how exactly was she miniaturizing 1294 01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:11,000 200 different tests, 1295 01:07:11,830 --> 01:07:13,208 and how exactly were you going to get 1296 01:07:13,291 --> 01:07:16,208 all of this done in the small analyzers? 1297 01:07:17,667 --> 01:07:20,458 And she was charging so much less than the others, 1298 01:07:20,542 --> 01:07:24,375 so all of that strained credulity. 1299 01:07:25,375 --> 01:07:28,500 I just didn't think that this 1300 01:07:28,583 --> 01:07:30,667 very sincere, 1301 01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:33,959 earnest, idealistic, young woman 1302 01:07:34,410 --> 01:07:37,830 was deceiving not just me, 1303 01:07:37,166 --> 01:07:41,250 but Walgreens Corporation and investors 1304 01:07:41,333 --> 01:07:44,625 to the tune of more than $400 million at that point. 1305 01:07:48,583 --> 01:07:50,500 To be able to give people 1306 01:07:50,583 --> 01:07:52,500 the tools to change their life 1307 01:07:52,583 --> 01:07:55,417 is an incredible blessing. It's a privilege. 1308 01:07:56,667 --> 01:07:58,166 Every single day, 1309 01:07:58,250 --> 01:08:01,583 I'm just so grateful for the way in which this is unfolding. 1310 01:08:02,542 --> 01:08:04,208 It's a gift from God. 1311 01:08:16,750 --> 01:08:18,834 We have to understand that this is all about 1312 01:08:18,917 --> 01:08:22,125 wanting the world to be a certain way, 1313 01:08:22,208 --> 01:08:24,792 and basically being able to rationalize our actions 1314 01:08:24,875 --> 01:08:27,291 to try and make it true. 1315 01:08:27,375 --> 01:08:29,542 You have to want a certain thing, 1316 01:08:29,625 --> 01:08:32,410 and then you should be able to kind of bend reality, 1317 01:08:32,125 --> 01:08:35,291 or rationalize things to allow you to do that. 1318 01:08:35,375 --> 01:08:37,208 But the other thing is that 1319 01:08:37,291 --> 01:08:40,375 what about reasons for good? 1320 01:08:40,458 --> 01:08:43,166 And I'll tell you about a study we did. 1321 01:08:43,250 --> 01:08:45,583 And the experiment works like this. 1322 01:08:45,667 --> 01:08:47,917 We give people a die, a six-sided die, 1323 01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,410 and we say, "Why don't you throw the die?" 1324 01:08:50,125 --> 01:08:52,125 And we'll pay you whatever it comes up. 1325 01:08:52,208 --> 01:08:53,559 Comes in six, you'll get six dollars 1326 01:08:53,583 --> 01:08:56,830 five, five dollars, four, and so on until one. 1327 01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:59,834 But you can get paid based on the top side or the bottom side. 1328 01:08:59,917 --> 01:09:02,750 Top or bottom, you decide, but don't tell us. 1329 01:09:02,834 --> 01:09:05,417 So, I give you the die, I say, "Don't tell me." 1330 01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:08,291 Think top or bottom. You have it? You know which one? 1331 01:09:08,375 --> 01:09:10,583 Now, toss the die. 1332 01:09:12,417 --> 01:09:14,250 And let's say the die comes five on the bottom 1333 01:09:14,333 --> 01:09:17,830 and two on the top. And now I say, 1334 01:09:17,166 --> 01:09:19,166 "Alex, what did you pick?" 1335 01:09:19,250 --> 01:09:21,750 Now, if you picked bottom, you say bottom, you get five dollars. 1336 01:09:21,834 --> 01:09:22,917 You pick top, 1337 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,208 what do you say? You say the truth? Top? 1338 01:09:25,291 --> 01:09:29,750 Or do you change your mind? You say bottom and get five dollars. 1339 01:09:29,834 --> 01:09:32,125 In our experiment, people do this 20 times. 1340 01:09:32,208 --> 01:09:33,768 And every time they think top or bottom, 1341 01:09:33,792 --> 01:09:37,375 commit it to memory, toss the die, and they write, 1342 01:09:37,458 --> 01:09:40,250 "Five and two. I chose five," and so on. 1343 01:09:41,410 --> 01:09:42,559 And when you do it 20 times, you find that 1344 01:09:42,583 --> 01:09:44,333 people are extra lucky. 1345 01:09:44,417 --> 01:09:47,410 Right? And luck has this really nice feature 1346 01:09:47,125 --> 01:09:49,750 of focusing on the six-one die tosses, right? 1347 01:09:49,834 --> 01:09:51,750 They're extra lucky on the six-one die tosses, 1348 01:09:51,834 --> 01:09:53,709 not so much on the three-four. 1349 01:09:53,792 --> 01:09:54,959 That's the basic experiment. 1350 01:09:55,410 --> 01:09:57,125 Now, here's the thing I want to tell you. 1351 01:09:57,208 --> 01:09:58,834 We do the same experiment, 1352 01:09:58,917 --> 01:10:02,250 but we connect people to a lie detector. 1353 01:10:02,333 --> 01:10:05,875 And we ask the question of whether the lie detector can detect it, 1354 01:10:05,959 --> 01:10:08,959 and the answer is yes, the lie detector can detect lies, 1355 01:10:09,410 --> 01:10:11,583 not all the time, but it can detect it. 1356 01:10:11,667 --> 01:10:13,458 In another version of the experiment, 1357 01:10:13,542 --> 01:10:15,291 we do the same thing, 1358 01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:17,333 but people pick a charity. 1359 01:10:17,417 --> 01:10:19,458 And all the money that they're going to make today 1360 01:10:19,542 --> 01:10:22,166 goes to that charity. Right? For a good cause. 1361 01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:24,917 What do you think happened, people cheat more or less? 1362 01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,000 People cheat more. 1363 01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:29,583 And the lie detector stops working. 1364 01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:33,333 Why? Because what does the lie detector detect? 1365 01:10:33,417 --> 01:10:35,875 The lie detector detects a tension. 1366 01:10:35,959 --> 01:10:38,000 I want more money, but I think it's wrong. 1367 01:10:38,830 --> 01:10:39,792 I want more money, but I think it's wrong, 1368 01:10:39,875 --> 01:10:41,625 but if it's not wrong, 1369 01:10:41,709 --> 01:10:43,458 why would you worry? 1370 01:10:43,542 --> 01:10:47,000 If it's for a good cause, you can still think of yourself as a good person, 1371 01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:51,500 and that's how things start, and then it becomes a slippery slope. 1372 01:11:09,250 --> 01:11:10,935 I was at the Wall Street Journal 1373 01:11:10,959 --> 01:11:13,000 on the fifth floor of the Journal newsroom 1374 01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:14,792 in midtown Manhattan. 1375 01:11:14,875 --> 01:11:16,917 I had couple weeks prior finished 1376 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,500 a long series on Medicare fraud. 1377 01:11:19,583 --> 01:11:20,667 So, I was looking for 1378 01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:23,417 something new to sink my teeth into, 1379 01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:25,333 and one afternoon, 1380 01:11:25,417 --> 01:11:27,583 I'm at my desk, my phone rings, I pick up, 1381 01:11:27,667 --> 01:11:29,750 and it's this source of mine. 1382 01:11:29,834 --> 01:11:32,125 He asked me whether I'd read this New Yorker profile 1383 01:11:32,208 --> 01:11:33,959 of Elizabeth Holmes that had been published 1384 01:11:34,410 --> 01:11:37,375 a couple weeks prior in December of 2014. 1385 01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:39,250 As it turns out, I had. 1386 01:11:39,333 --> 01:11:41,709 And there was a quote from Elizabeth Holmes 1387 01:11:41,792 --> 01:11:45,417 that Ken Auletta described as "comically vague." 1388 01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,410 It sounded like the words 1389 01:11:47,125 --> 01:11:48,625 of a high school chemistry student, 1390 01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:51,667 as opposed to a sophisticated laboratory scientist 1391 01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:54,917 who'd really invented new science. 1392 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,830 But I might not have done anything about it 1393 01:11:58,166 --> 01:11:59,750 if it weren't for the fact that 1394 01:11:59,834 --> 01:12:03,750 my source was now coming to me with this tip. 1395 01:12:03,834 --> 01:12:06,917 He said there's a laboratory director 1396 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,792 who had just left Theranos on pretty bad terms 1397 01:12:09,875 --> 01:12:12,750 because he had become increasingly concerned 1398 01:12:12,834 --> 01:12:16,125 about the practices that he had witnessed there. 1399 01:12:16,667 --> 01:12:18,709 My ears definitely pricked up at that, 1400 01:12:18,792 --> 01:12:20,834 and so I made contact. 1401 01:12:20,917 --> 01:12:23,208 When I got him on the phone, 1402 01:12:23,291 --> 01:12:25,375 after trying him a few times, he was terrified. 1403 01:12:25,458 --> 01:12:28,625 He was being hounded by the law firm 1404 01:12:28,709 --> 01:12:31,458 of the famous lawyer David Boies. 1405 01:12:31,542 --> 01:12:34,959 One of Theranos's strokes of genius was to hire David Boies 1406 01:12:35,410 --> 01:12:38,830 and also give him stock in the company. 1407 01:12:38,166 --> 01:12:40,959 I mean, this is a lion of the legal industry, 1408 01:12:41,410 --> 01:12:43,542 arguably the most well-known lawyer in America, 1409 01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:46,959 who had represented Al Gore in in the presidential recount in 2000. 1410 01:12:47,410 --> 01:12:50,458 Before that, won a case on behalf of the Justice Department 1411 01:12:50,542 --> 01:12:52,830 against Microsoft, 1412 01:12:52,166 --> 01:12:55,792 and had shred Bill Gates during 20 hours of deposition. 1413 01:12:55,875 --> 01:12:58,625 And he would later become famous as the legal muscle 1414 01:12:58,709 --> 01:13:02,834 for Harvey Weinstein and his attempt to silence accusers. 1415 01:13:02,917 --> 01:13:06,625 This was someone who struck fear in many people. 1416 01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:09,834 The lab director said that Boies was pressuring him 1417 01:13:09,917 --> 01:13:12,834 and threatening him with litigation. 1418 01:13:12,917 --> 01:13:15,125 So, I had to agree... 1419 01:13:15,208 --> 01:13:17,375 to keep his identity confidential. 1420 01:13:18,875 --> 01:13:23,125 He told me that the Edison could only do a few tests, 1421 01:13:23,208 --> 01:13:25,875 and that all the other tests on Theranos's menu, 1422 01:13:25,959 --> 01:13:29,542 and at that point, we're talking about 250 blood tests, 1423 01:13:29,625 --> 01:13:31,667 were done on commercially available 1424 01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:34,410 laboratory machines that had been purchased 1425 01:13:34,125 --> 01:13:37,750 from companies like Siemens and DiaSorin. 1426 01:13:37,834 --> 01:13:39,333 And then they were also lying 1427 01:13:39,417 --> 01:13:43,500 about the reliability and the accuracy of the blood tests. 1428 01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:54,458 So, I went to Arizona 1429 01:13:54,542 --> 01:13:56,410 to get myself tested. 1430 01:13:56,125 --> 01:13:57,542 And so, one morning, I went 1431 01:13:57,625 --> 01:14:00,458 to the Walgreens that was closest to my hotel. 1432 01:14:00,542 --> 01:14:02,410 I sat down in one of these 1433 01:14:02,125 --> 01:14:04,208 little Wellness Centers, and the phlebotomist, 1434 01:14:04,291 --> 01:14:06,410 I heard her talking on the phone, 1435 01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:08,709 and typing on a computer for a few minutes, 1436 01:14:08,792 --> 01:14:11,917 and then she turned around and she came at me 1437 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,208 with a tourniquet and a syringe. 1438 01:14:17,208 --> 01:14:19,542 And I said, "Why not a fingerstick? 1439 01:14:19,625 --> 01:14:21,000 "I thought this was all about, 1440 01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:23,458 you know, a fingerstick blood test." 1441 01:14:23,542 --> 01:14:25,542 She said, "No, your order actually 1442 01:14:25,625 --> 01:14:27,875 includes tests that require venous draw." 1443 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,375 The truth is that, before my story came out, 1444 01:14:33,458 --> 01:14:35,542 there had already been instances of people 1445 01:14:35,625 --> 01:14:37,250 going in to get their blood checked, 1446 01:14:37,333 --> 01:14:39,625 and they would need to do a venipuncture 1447 01:14:39,709 --> 01:14:43,208 instead of a fingerstick of capillary blood. 1448 01:14:43,291 --> 01:14:45,917 And so, I asked about that a number of times, 1449 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,375 and the answers were incredibly opaque. 1450 01:14:50,458 --> 01:14:51,935 So, my question is 1451 01:14:51,959 --> 01:14:54,830 what percentage of your tests are 1452 01:14:54,166 --> 01:14:56,250 needle rather than finger prick? 1453 01:14:56,333 --> 01:14:59,208 I-I don't have a really good number for you 1454 01:14:59,291 --> 01:15:01,125 because it's changing. 1455 01:15:01,208 --> 01:15:03,208 And we're really confident being able to say 1456 01:15:03,291 --> 01:15:05,959 that we're very close to 99% being on capillary, 1457 01:15:06,410 --> 01:15:08,834 but when you try to pinpoint a number... 1458 01:15:08,917 --> 01:15:10,834 We talking about in the next 1459 01:15:10,917 --> 01:15:13,834 - five years? One year? Two months? - No. 1460 01:15:13,917 --> 01:15:16,291 Much less than a year, 1461 01:15:16,375 --> 01:15:17,750 without question. 1462 01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:20,500 At the time, you didn't think that 1463 01:15:20,583 --> 01:15:23,458 that was necessarily evidence of... 1464 01:15:23,542 --> 01:15:25,834 Absolutely not. I actually believed her. 1465 01:15:25,917 --> 01:15:29,291 Of course, I remember her saying it to me. 1466 01:15:29,375 --> 01:15:32,830 And... that's a lie. 1467 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,410 Period. 1468 01:15:38,583 --> 01:15:40,410 So, after a year or so, 1469 01:15:40,125 --> 01:15:43,959 we started to see the fingerstick collection dwindle, 1470 01:15:44,410 --> 01:15:47,125 and more venipuncture increase. 1471 01:15:47,208 --> 01:15:49,792 What did they tell you about why they were switching 1472 01:15:49,875 --> 01:15:53,830 to part fingerstick and part venipuncture? 1473 01:15:53,166 --> 01:15:56,333 They just... They didn't tell us. It just happened. 1474 01:15:56,417 --> 01:16:01,830 We were told we would need to say this blanketed statement: 1475 01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:03,583 "Due to the test that your physician ordered, 1476 01:16:03,667 --> 01:16:06,375 "we have to perform venipuncture 1477 01:16:06,458 --> 01:16:08,291 "to make sure that we had enough 1478 01:16:08,375 --> 01:16:12,000 "sample to perform the testing. 1479 01:16:12,830 --> 01:16:14,208 Would you like to proceed?" 1480 01:16:14,291 --> 01:16:16,625 - That's it. - That must've surprised you. 1481 01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:19,208 Yeah, it surprised a lot of the technicians. 1482 01:16:19,291 --> 01:16:21,166 It surprised a lot of the patients, 1483 01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:22,890 or the customers that were coming in, too. 1484 01:16:22,917 --> 01:16:27,166 Some people, uh, expressed profanity, 1485 01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:31,333 stormed out, demanded their money back. 1486 01:16:31,417 --> 01:16:35,333 Then, during that whole transition to venipuncture, 1487 01:16:35,417 --> 01:16:41,250 we had this big hiring boom where I had to train 50 more employees 1488 01:16:41,333 --> 01:16:45,959 because now we opened up our next 10 Wellness Centers. 1489 01:16:48,792 --> 01:16:50,333 With the Walgreens roll out, 1490 01:16:50,417 --> 01:16:52,875 the problems at Theranos were magnified. 1491 01:16:52,959 --> 01:16:55,500 Instead of shutting down until the Edisons could perform 1492 01:16:55,583 --> 01:16:57,583 all the tests on the Theranos menu, 1493 01:16:57,667 --> 01:17:01,291 Elizabeth and her team invented a workaround designed 1494 01:17:01,375 --> 01:17:04,000 to create the illusion of a new technology. 1495 01:17:04,830 --> 01:17:08,291 For most tests, they were forced to use venous blood, drawn with needles, 1496 01:17:08,375 --> 01:17:11,625 and to buy the same machines used by every other lab. 1497 01:17:11,709 --> 01:17:14,250 But to keep Elizabeth's fingerstick dream alive, 1498 01:17:14,333 --> 01:17:16,625 Theranos modified some of those machines, 1499 01:17:16,709 --> 01:17:19,875 so they would work with diluted capillary samples. 1500 01:17:19,959 --> 01:17:21,500 And for a handful of patient tests, 1501 01:17:21,583 --> 01:17:24,000 the company used the old Edison prototype 1502 01:17:24,830 --> 01:17:26,458 Elizabeth had pitched to Walgreens. 1503 01:17:26,542 --> 01:17:29,375 What we've worked to do is eliminate the error 1504 01:17:29,458 --> 01:17:31,417 and variability that's associated 1505 01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:34,333 with human processing of samples. 1506 01:17:34,417 --> 01:17:37,625 When Elizabeth says the whole process was automated 1507 01:17:37,709 --> 01:17:39,917 from start to finish, it was... 1508 01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,709 it was, uh, yeah, that was a stretch. 1509 01:17:42,792 --> 01:17:45,750 It would sometimes take six hours 1510 01:17:45,834 --> 01:17:47,667 just to set up the system 1511 01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:50,166 before we could even run the patient samples. 1512 01:17:50,250 --> 01:17:52,875 I was filling up containers, 1513 01:17:52,959 --> 01:17:56,458 doing so many manual things with hands. 1514 01:17:56,542 --> 01:17:58,792 And the scary thing about the nanotainers was they could 1515 01:17:58,875 --> 01:18:01,000 hop off your tray and they would be on the ground, 1516 01:18:01,830 --> 01:18:03,875 and you might not be able to spot them. 1517 01:18:05,709 --> 01:18:07,542 They had to dilute the nanotainers 1518 01:18:07,625 --> 01:18:09,458 to run it on the Siemens machines, 1519 01:18:09,542 --> 01:18:11,959 which was not how they were supposed to be used, 1520 01:18:12,410 --> 01:18:14,208 and so people who worked in the clinical lab 1521 01:18:14,291 --> 01:18:16,458 were nervous about that because they were violating 1522 01:18:16,542 --> 01:18:19,208 the operating standards for those devices, 1523 01:18:19,291 --> 01:18:21,125 which, you know, are rigorous standards 1524 01:18:21,208 --> 01:18:23,125 since they're being used to test 1525 01:18:23,208 --> 01:18:24,875 people for diseases. 1526 01:18:26,166 --> 01:18:28,333 We were fudging results, 1527 01:18:28,417 --> 01:18:31,959 rerunning quality control tests until they passed. 1528 01:18:32,410 --> 01:18:33,583 The solution at some point was, 1529 01:18:33,667 --> 01:18:35,347 "If you just throw out that one data point, 1530 01:18:35,375 --> 01:18:36,643 then the other three look beautiful." 1531 01:18:36,667 --> 01:18:39,417 And that's not the way you approach 1532 01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:41,709 science that's going to be impacting people's lives. 1533 01:18:41,792 --> 01:18:44,125 There were people who had to run tests 1534 01:18:44,208 --> 01:18:46,208 on devices that they knew weren't working, 1535 01:18:46,291 --> 01:18:49,667 and give those results to patients. 1536 01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:52,709 People were very upset, you know, crying. 1537 01:18:52,792 --> 01:18:54,333 Some members of the CLIA lab would even 1538 01:18:54,417 --> 01:18:56,792 have to call patients and tell them that they had to go 1539 01:18:56,875 --> 01:18:59,583 to the emergency room 'cause the lab test was, you know, so far off. 1540 01:18:59,667 --> 01:19:01,709 What really hit home for me is 1541 01:19:01,792 --> 01:19:04,542 we were starting to do more infectious disease. 1542 01:19:04,625 --> 01:19:07,830 Hepatitis C, prostate cancer, 1543 01:19:07,166 --> 01:19:09,000 and even syphilis. 1544 01:19:09,830 --> 01:19:11,750 I was running precision testing for syphilis, 1545 01:19:11,834 --> 01:19:15,458 and there was a lot of variability in the test, 1546 01:19:16,208 --> 01:19:19,250 but Theranos said, "This is safe to use 1547 01:19:19,333 --> 01:19:22,417 on real patient samples." 1548 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:24,375 And I was kind of blown away. 1549 01:19:24,458 --> 01:19:26,830 If a hundred people who had syphilis 1550 01:19:26,166 --> 01:19:28,792 came and got tested on the Theranos devices, 1551 01:19:28,875 --> 01:19:31,410 we would only tell 65 of them that they had syphilis, 1552 01:19:31,125 --> 01:19:32,709 and we would tell the other 35, 1553 01:19:32,792 --> 01:19:35,410 "You're healthy. No need for medical intervention." 1554 01:19:35,125 --> 01:19:39,410 So, if people are 1555 01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:42,542 testing themselves for syphilis using Theranos, 1556 01:19:42,625 --> 01:19:44,726 there's going to be a lot more syphilis in this world. 1557 01:19:49,417 --> 01:19:51,830 Their downfall was when they started 1558 01:19:51,166 --> 01:19:54,542 giving us results that were not matching up 1559 01:19:54,625 --> 01:19:56,959 with other labs. 1560 01:19:57,410 --> 01:19:59,834 We started seeing that, at first, with TSHs, 1561 01:19:59,917 --> 01:20:02,834 which is the thyroid stimulating hormone. 1562 01:20:02,917 --> 01:20:05,250 Patients that had been coming to us for years 1563 01:20:05,333 --> 01:20:06,583 to get their TSH done, 1564 01:20:06,667 --> 01:20:08,667 they had gone to Theranos and their labs 1565 01:20:08,750 --> 01:20:11,458 were changing really drastically. 1566 01:20:11,542 --> 01:20:14,333 So, we started sending them to LabCorp, 1567 01:20:14,417 --> 01:20:16,570 just to verify, and that's when we started 1568 01:20:16,125 --> 01:20:19,830 seeing some pretty abnormal results. 1569 01:20:19,166 --> 01:20:20,375 I understand how a patient 1570 01:20:20,458 --> 01:20:22,333 would wanna order their own labs, 1571 01:20:22,417 --> 01:20:25,375 but then they get it and they don't know what to do with it, 1572 01:20:25,458 --> 01:20:27,125 or they go on Google 1573 01:20:27,208 --> 01:20:29,709 and google everything under the sun, 1574 01:20:29,792 --> 01:20:32,830 and see that they have cancer, so... 1575 01:20:32,166 --> 01:20:34,375 - When they don't. - When they don't! 1576 01:20:34,458 --> 01:20:37,834 When you read about how many tests were actually wrong... 1577 01:20:37,917 --> 01:20:39,834 - Mm-hmm. - ...did that concern you? 1578 01:20:39,917 --> 01:20:42,000 It did because I had some of those tests 1579 01:20:42,830 --> 01:20:44,625 performed on me and my children! 1580 01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:46,375 I did! 1581 01:20:46,458 --> 01:20:50,125 So, I immediately went back to... 1582 01:20:50,208 --> 01:20:52,542 the other big lab companies, 1583 01:20:52,625 --> 01:20:55,250 and got my test done, the same test done, 1584 01:20:55,333 --> 01:20:58,208 and I compared them, and there was a big difference. 1585 01:20:58,458 --> 01:21:01,125 So, yeah, it was scary. 1586 01:21:01,208 --> 01:21:02,458 It was very scary. 1587 01:21:05,291 --> 01:21:08,291 There are so many people who reach out to us and thank us. 1588 01:21:08,375 --> 01:21:11,417 This one guy, he said, "Thank God for Theranos." 1589 01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:13,434 I mean, how many times you say that about companies? 1590 01:21:13,458 --> 01:21:16,792 You buy a product, and do you ever say, "Thank God for Uber?" 1591 01:21:16,875 --> 01:21:18,500 Well, maybe sometimes, but... 1592 01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:20,208 But you will say 1593 01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:22,333 thank God for Theranos every day, 1594 01:21:22,417 --> 01:21:24,542 because every time you need a lab test, 1595 01:21:24,625 --> 01:21:26,333 every time your family needs a test... 1596 01:21:26,417 --> 01:21:28,000 I couldn't feel comfortable 1597 01:21:28,830 --> 01:21:30,583 with running these tests on patients 1598 01:21:30,667 --> 01:21:31,959 because, at the end of the day, 1599 01:21:32,410 --> 01:21:33,625 I wouldn't run them on myself. 1600 01:21:33,709 --> 01:21:36,000 I wouldn't run them on my family members. 1601 01:21:36,830 --> 01:21:38,583 And it just didn't make sense that, 1602 01:21:38,667 --> 01:21:41,333 internally, we had so little faith 1603 01:21:41,417 --> 01:21:42,583 in these tests, 1604 01:21:42,667 --> 01:21:45,375 but we're still resulting them on patients. 1605 01:21:45,458 --> 01:21:47,125 Unprecedented transparency... 1606 01:21:47,208 --> 01:21:49,375 I finally decided enough is enough. 1607 01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:52,417 I went into Sunny's office and I said, 1608 01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:54,000 "We're not letting patients know 1609 01:21:54,830 --> 01:21:57,667 when these results are false or when we make a mistake." 1610 01:21:57,750 --> 01:22:00,667 And effectively, what he did is said, 1611 01:22:00,750 --> 01:22:04,750 "What makes you think you're qualified to make that call?" 1612 01:22:04,834 --> 01:22:07,542 And, "You need to just sit down and do your job." 1613 01:22:07,625 --> 01:22:09,417 Thank you. 1614 01:22:09,500 --> 01:22:11,208 At that point, I knew. 1615 01:22:11,291 --> 01:22:13,542 It's just unacceptable what this company is doing, 1616 01:22:13,625 --> 01:22:15,417 and I don't want to be a part of that. 1617 01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:17,959 The kind of technologies that you're building 1618 01:22:18,410 --> 01:22:21,375 practically are changing people's lives every single day. 1619 01:22:21,458 --> 01:22:25,125 I couldn't understand how someone could continuously lie. 1620 01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:27,830 It really changed my perception of her. 1621 01:22:27,166 --> 01:22:28,875 That, okay, this person, 1622 01:22:28,959 --> 01:22:30,709 you know, plays this role of, 1623 01:22:30,792 --> 01:22:33,830 you know, wanting to make health care more accessible, 1624 01:22:33,166 --> 01:22:36,542 of really trying to leverage innovative new technologies 1625 01:22:36,625 --> 01:22:39,750 to solve this huge problem that we have in health care, 1626 01:22:39,834 --> 01:22:41,125 but it's all a show. 1627 01:22:41,208 --> 01:22:43,792 I grew up spending summers 1628 01:22:43,875 --> 01:22:46,583 and the holidays... 1629 01:22:46,667 --> 01:22:50,410 - ...with my uncle. I remember how much I loved him. - I have a really vivid memory. 1630 01:22:50,125 --> 01:22:51,917 - I loved him so much. - He was fine. 1631 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,959 He was diagnosed one day with skin cancer... 1632 01:22:55,410 --> 01:22:57,875 All of a sudden, - And one day, he has brain cancer... 1633 01:22:57,959 --> 01:23:00,417 - And in his bones... - All of a sudden... 1634 01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:02,750 He was gone before I ever got to... 1635 01:23:02,834 --> 01:23:05,375 - My uncle... - My uncle... 1636 01:23:20,291 --> 01:23:22,830 When I think of Theranos, 1637 01:23:22,166 --> 01:23:25,166 I really feel like there were two entirely different worlds. 1638 01:23:25,291 --> 01:23:26,917 There was the carpeted world, 1639 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,625 and there was the tiled world. 1640 01:23:29,709 --> 01:23:32,917 In the carpeted world was where Elizabeth was a goddess. 1641 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:36,417 Everyone almost worshiped the ground she walked on. 1642 01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:40,917 She could do no wrong. She was the next Steve Jobs. 1643 01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:43,208 Theranos was changing the world. 1644 01:23:43,291 --> 01:23:46,375 And then you go into the tiled side and nothing works. 1645 01:23:46,458 --> 01:23:48,166 We're on a sinking ship. 1646 01:23:48,250 --> 01:23:50,250 Everything's a lie. 1647 01:23:50,333 --> 01:23:52,250 Reconciling the differences between 1648 01:23:52,333 --> 01:23:54,917 those two worlds was really hard for me to do. 1649 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,500 I knew Elizabeth personally from all these 1650 01:23:57,583 --> 01:24:00,208 interactions through my family, 1651 01:24:00,875 --> 01:24:03,166 so I really trusted her. I believed in her. 1652 01:24:03,250 --> 01:24:05,291 I would leave the tiled world thinking, 1653 01:24:05,375 --> 01:24:06,667 "Oh man, sinking ship." 1654 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:08,559 And I would go have one conversation with Elizabeth. 1655 01:24:08,583 --> 01:24:11,000 Theranos was founded with the goal 1656 01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:13,500 of creating a more human, actionable health experience. 1657 01:24:13,583 --> 01:24:16,000 If you can begin to understand your body... 1658 01:24:16,830 --> 01:24:18,500 And I would be so motivated to go back and work, 1659 01:24:18,583 --> 01:24:20,423 and I felt like I was changing the world again. 1660 01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:22,166 And I would go back into the tiled world, 1661 01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:24,583 and I would go, wait, what just happened? 1662 01:24:24,667 --> 01:24:27,542 You want it to be true so badly, 1663 01:24:27,625 --> 01:24:31,500 and even for me, I was working with these devices 1664 01:24:31,583 --> 01:24:32,834 every single day, 1665 01:24:32,917 --> 01:24:35,500 and she could still kind of convince me. 1666 01:24:37,830 --> 01:24:38,834 When I think back on those conversations, 1667 01:24:38,917 --> 01:24:41,417 I just think, how did she do that? 1668 01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:47,542 You start to believe that maybe you're the one who's crazy. 1669 01:24:47,625 --> 01:24:49,625 Because everyone else thinks this woman's great, 1670 01:24:49,709 --> 01:24:51,267 and everyone else wants to throw money at her, 1671 01:24:51,291 --> 01:24:54,875 wants to be on board with this, and wants to be a part of it. 1672 01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:57,625 I mean, at the time, she was this iconic figure, 1673 01:24:57,709 --> 01:24:59,917 this woman in tech who was revolutionizing everything, 1674 01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,410 this Steve Jobs imitation. 1675 01:25:03,125 --> 01:25:05,458 Sometimes, you have to think maybe you're wrong. 1676 01:25:10,959 --> 01:25:13,417 At the time, you wondered whether 1677 01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:17,375 Elizabeth's connections were protecting her. 1678 01:25:17,458 --> 01:25:21,830 It kind of caused a bit of a crisis of faith 1679 01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:25,208 in, you know, just the power of government, and how 1680 01:25:25,291 --> 01:25:27,291 corrupt or not they were for me. 1681 01:25:27,375 --> 01:25:29,709 I thought that Theranos was going to get away with it. 1682 01:25:32,917 --> 01:25:35,166 You're charging historically low prices, 1683 01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,917 which is a small fraction 1684 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,000 of what is charged now, 1685 01:25:40,830 --> 01:25:42,250 and while maintaining the highest standards. 1686 01:25:42,333 --> 01:25:45,830 With all her political connections, 1687 01:25:45,166 --> 01:25:48,125 she was chummy with the Obama administration. 1688 01:25:48,208 --> 01:25:50,830 The bet that she made was that 1689 01:25:50,166 --> 01:25:53,830 if she surrounded herself with powerful people, 1690 01:25:53,166 --> 01:25:56,333 the regulators wouldn't get confrontational with her. 1691 01:25:57,208 --> 01:25:58,542 The end game, I think, 1692 01:25:58,625 --> 01:26:01,500 it comes back to "fake it until you make it." 1693 01:26:02,667 --> 01:26:05,583 Elizabeth never gave up on her ultimate vision 1694 01:26:05,667 --> 01:26:08,250 to get the device not only in stores, 1695 01:26:08,333 --> 01:26:11,830 but ultimately, in the homes of patients. 1696 01:26:11,166 --> 01:26:13,750 She wanted to be like Apple and Steve Jobs, 1697 01:26:13,834 --> 01:26:18,208 in the sense that Apple devices are ubiquitous. 1698 01:26:18,291 --> 01:26:21,583 She wanted Edison devices in every home in America. 1699 01:26:24,166 --> 01:26:27,667 The only thing is you need FDA approval to make that happen. 1700 01:26:33,792 --> 01:26:37,250 I did talk to the Chief Medical person at the FDA, 1701 01:26:37,333 --> 01:26:40,291 who expressed some skepticism. He said... 1702 01:26:40,375 --> 01:26:42,768 "They have not provided enough information 1703 01:26:42,792 --> 01:26:46,250 for the agency to clear or approve the test." 1704 01:26:46,333 --> 01:26:47,709 Accurate? 1705 01:26:47,792 --> 01:26:49,250 So, is this something that 1706 01:26:49,333 --> 01:26:51,792 - you wanted actually to use in the article? - Yes. 1707 01:26:51,875 --> 01:26:53,542 Okay, so that's part of a challenge 1708 01:26:53,625 --> 01:26:55,875 because that our legal team is so concerned about this 1709 01:26:55,959 --> 01:26:58,250 because there's a lot of context behind that. 1710 01:26:58,333 --> 01:27:00,500 It creates... causes a lot of problems for us. 1711 01:27:00,583 --> 01:27:02,223 That's why I'm asking for context. 1712 01:27:02,250 --> 01:27:05,333 Give it to me. I'm all ears. 1713 01:27:05,417 --> 01:27:07,500 Okay, let me talk to our legal team. 1714 01:27:07,583 --> 01:27:10,750 Right now, they told me that I can't comment on this... 1715 01:27:10,834 --> 01:27:12,291 Elizabeth was tap dancing 1716 01:27:12,375 --> 01:27:14,458 around her discussions with the FDA. 1717 01:27:14,542 --> 01:27:16,667 Rather than submit full applications, 1718 01:27:16,750 --> 01:27:20,458 Theranos flooded the FDA with vague exploratory letters, 1719 01:27:20,542 --> 01:27:22,125 trying to stall for time, 1720 01:27:22,208 --> 01:27:23,959 till the Edisons could do all the tests 1721 01:27:24,410 --> 01:27:25,834 that Theranos advertised, 1722 01:27:25,917 --> 01:27:27,500 and that could take years. 1723 01:27:29,125 --> 01:27:32,000 In the meantime, the Theranos operation in Palo Alto 1724 01:27:32,830 --> 01:27:34,000 was being regulated by CMS, 1725 01:27:34,830 --> 01:27:37,375 the federal agency in charge of clinical labs. 1726 01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:40,125 Theranos was also playing games with them. 1727 01:27:40,208 --> 01:27:43,458 Even though some patient tests were performed on Edisons, 1728 01:27:43,542 --> 01:27:45,750 Theranos never reported those. 1729 01:27:45,834 --> 01:27:49,834 The company only gave CMS the data from third-party machines. 1730 01:27:50,583 --> 01:27:51,750 The decision was 1731 01:27:51,834 --> 01:27:54,000 let's send what was on the Immulite 1732 01:27:54,830 --> 01:27:55,125 and on the Siemens Advia. 1733 01:27:55,208 --> 01:27:58,410 Let's not send the Edison results. 1734 01:27:58,125 --> 01:27:59,267 And that really freaked me out 1735 01:27:59,291 --> 01:28:00,875 because that was suggesting that, 1736 01:28:00,959 --> 01:28:03,625 okay, we didn't trust the Edison test. 1737 01:28:03,709 --> 01:28:05,709 And here, we were able to make that discernment 1738 01:28:05,792 --> 01:28:08,291 of what was the appropriate one to send, 1739 01:28:08,375 --> 01:28:10,458 but we weren't doing that with patients. 1740 01:28:12,291 --> 01:28:15,208 And when CMS came in for the inspection, 1741 01:28:15,291 --> 01:28:17,959 Sunny and Elizabeth only showed them the lab 1742 01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:20,458 with the Siemens Advia, the Immulite. 1743 01:28:20,542 --> 01:28:23,542 They never took them downstairs to the secondary lab, 1744 01:28:23,625 --> 01:28:27,125 where we processed all the fingersticks on the Edisons. 1745 01:28:27,208 --> 01:28:28,834 They strictly told us 1746 01:28:28,917 --> 01:28:30,375 to stay at your desk. 1747 01:28:30,458 --> 01:28:31,959 They didn't want any of us down there 1748 01:28:32,410 --> 01:28:33,917 'cause they were scared if the inspectors 1749 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,417 saw what was going on, that could have huge consequences. 1750 01:28:37,500 --> 01:28:40,583 It just seemed scandalous to us. 1751 01:28:40,667 --> 01:28:44,542 It was getting to the point where there was really no hope. 1752 01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:46,830 You know, I'd pretty much decided 1753 01:28:46,166 --> 01:28:48,166 that I was going to quit. 1754 01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:53,417 Right after I resigned, 1755 01:28:53,500 --> 01:28:57,208 I went to my grandfather's office at Stanford, 1756 01:28:57,291 --> 01:28:59,542 and actually showed him a lot of data, 1757 01:28:59,625 --> 01:29:02,410 and the discrepancy between what I was seeing 1758 01:29:02,125 --> 01:29:03,417 and what was being published, 1759 01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:06,830 and the explanation for those differences. 1760 01:29:06,166 --> 01:29:10,500 But he didn't really seem to believe what I was saying, 1761 01:29:10,583 --> 01:29:12,500 and he said, "Elizabeth has told me that 1762 01:29:12,583 --> 01:29:15,375 "Theranos really can do all the things that it says it can do. 1763 01:29:15,458 --> 01:29:18,410 "Theranos is more accurate, going to change the world. 1764 01:29:18,125 --> 01:29:20,375 "They're trying to convince me that you're stupid. 1765 01:29:20,458 --> 01:29:21,935 "They can't convince me that you're stupid, 1766 01:29:21,959 --> 01:29:23,875 "but they can convince me that you're wrong. 1767 01:29:23,959 --> 01:29:25,709 "And I do think that you're wrong, 1768 01:29:25,792 --> 01:29:27,959 so move on with your life." 1769 01:29:31,333 --> 01:29:33,375 A few months afterwards, 1770 01:29:33,458 --> 01:29:36,166 John Carreyou from the Wall Street Journal 1771 01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:39,291 sent me a message on LinkedIn. 1772 01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:41,333 I was definitely in a panic. 1773 01:29:41,417 --> 01:29:42,726 There were confidentiality agreements 1774 01:29:42,750 --> 01:29:44,390 that I had signed while I was at Theranos. 1775 01:29:44,458 --> 01:29:47,291 So, I went and bought a burner phone with cash. 1776 01:29:47,375 --> 01:29:50,500 I called him, and in that phone call, 1777 01:29:50,583 --> 01:29:52,500 I decided that I wanted to help him out. 1778 01:29:53,917 --> 01:29:57,667 I said, my grandfather made it through Watergate, 1779 01:29:57,750 --> 01:29:59,166 and the Iran-Contra scandal 1780 01:29:59,250 --> 01:30:02,583 with his integrity completely intact. 1781 01:30:02,667 --> 01:30:04,709 Once he becomes aware of the fraud that's happening, 1782 01:30:04,792 --> 01:30:07,667 he will do everything he can to make things right. 1783 01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:09,267 And I want to give him that opportunity 1784 01:30:09,291 --> 01:30:12,917 because, I think he was 94, 95 at the time. 1785 01:30:14,375 --> 01:30:16,667 So, I met with John in person, 1786 01:30:16,750 --> 01:30:19,375 and then he sent Theranos 1787 01:30:19,458 --> 01:30:21,500 some prodding questions, 1788 01:30:21,583 --> 01:30:24,291 and there was just one number in there. 1789 01:30:24,375 --> 01:30:27,667 42.9% that I had calculated for one of these tests, 1790 01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:31,166 that was also in an e-mail that I had sent to Elizabeth. 1791 01:30:35,458 --> 01:30:36,875 About a month after that, 1792 01:30:36,959 --> 01:30:39,542 I went to go have dinner with my parents. 1793 01:30:39,625 --> 01:30:41,542 I walk in the door, and my dad says, 1794 01:30:41,625 --> 01:30:44,375 "Have you been speaking to a Wall Street Journal reporter?" 1795 01:30:44,458 --> 01:30:47,375 And I said yes. 1796 01:30:47,458 --> 01:30:49,250 And he said, "Well, they know." 1797 01:30:55,410 --> 01:30:56,458 After I leave Theranos, 1798 01:30:56,542 --> 01:30:59,875 I kind of want to be as far away from them as possible. 1799 01:30:59,959 --> 01:31:02,792 I was working another job, and at this point, 1800 01:31:02,875 --> 01:31:06,250 I had talked to John Carreyrou from the Wall Street Journal, 1801 01:31:06,333 --> 01:31:08,542 who was doing an investigative report. 1802 01:31:11,542 --> 01:31:13,917 So, I'm at work one day. I'm working late, 1803 01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,792 and two of my colleagues are leaving, 1804 01:31:15,875 --> 01:31:17,917 and I'm going to be the only one in the building. 1805 01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,125 And they look outside, and they're like, "Hey, Erika. 1806 01:31:20,208 --> 01:31:22,800 "There's been this guy who's just been sitting 1807 01:31:22,410 --> 01:31:25,750 in our parking lot for the whole day." 1808 01:31:25,834 --> 01:31:28,458 And that's very unusual. 1809 01:31:31,417 --> 01:31:34,830 So, they walk me to my car, 1810 01:31:34,166 --> 01:31:37,500 and then this guy comes up, and he gives me this letter. 1811 01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:40,166 And it has the address of this temporary home 1812 01:31:40,250 --> 01:31:43,750 that I'm staying at, so no one knows this address. 1813 01:31:43,834 --> 01:31:47,166 And I open it, and it's a letter from David Boies. 1814 01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:50,458 "If you don't come forward with 1815 01:31:50,542 --> 01:31:53,291 "X, Y, and Z document, or report these people, 1816 01:31:53,375 --> 01:31:55,875 there's a potential that we could sue you." 1817 01:31:57,166 --> 01:31:59,333 It was quite, quite scary for me. 1818 01:31:59,417 --> 01:32:01,333 Especially coming from a position of, 1819 01:32:01,417 --> 01:32:03,834 what, I was 23 at that point? 1820 01:32:03,917 --> 01:32:06,375 You know, I had not really 1821 01:32:06,458 --> 01:32:09,333 not really any money to spend on lawyers or anything. 1822 01:32:09,417 --> 01:32:11,166 I was really freaked out. 1823 01:32:14,250 --> 01:32:16,250 I'd been asking for an interview 1824 01:32:16,333 --> 01:32:18,166 with Elizabeth for several months, 1825 01:32:18,250 --> 01:32:21,830 and they were giving me the runaround. 1826 01:32:21,166 --> 01:32:24,166 Finally, in June 2015, 1827 01:32:24,250 --> 01:32:27,583 we agreed that we'd have a meeting at the Journal offices. 1828 01:32:28,875 --> 01:32:31,834 This Theranos delegation comes in, it's seven people, 1829 01:32:31,917 --> 01:32:33,750 four of whom are lawyers, 1830 01:32:33,834 --> 01:32:37,875 led by David Boies, and one of the other lawyers is Heather King... 1831 01:32:37,959 --> 01:32:40,830 Heather has just joined us as our general counsel. 1832 01:32:40,166 --> 01:32:43,208 ...who had been a Boies Schiller partner, 1833 01:32:43,291 --> 01:32:45,792 former Hillary Clinton aide. 1834 01:32:45,875 --> 01:32:49,000 Couple of minutes into the meeting, Heather King 1835 01:32:49,830 --> 01:32:51,500 puts a little tape recorder down on the table. 1836 01:32:51,583 --> 01:32:52,875 Another Boies Schiller attorney 1837 01:32:52,959 --> 01:32:54,875 put a little tape recorder 1838 01:32:54,959 --> 01:32:56,667 on the other end of the conference table, 1839 01:32:56,750 --> 01:32:58,250 and it was very clear 1840 01:32:58,333 --> 01:33:00,000 that they were approaching this 1841 01:33:00,830 --> 01:33:02,417 as a deposition in a legal proceeding. 1842 01:33:02,500 --> 01:33:05,417 If they were going to record, then I was going to record as well. 1843 01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:07,959 Okay, so, you know, we're here today 1844 01:33:08,410 --> 01:33:11,830 to do our part to help educate you on what 1845 01:33:11,166 --> 01:33:12,750 I, at least, believe are some, 1846 01:33:12,834 --> 01:33:15,792 you know, false premises upon which the questions are based. 1847 01:33:15,875 --> 01:33:19,208 They're very serious questions, and there's some very serious 1848 01:33:19,291 --> 01:33:22,830 allegations in those questions. 1849 01:33:22,166 --> 01:33:24,830 I also turn to David Boies. 1850 01:33:24,166 --> 01:33:26,250 David attends all the board meetings. 1851 01:33:26,333 --> 01:33:29,375 We wouldn't be here, spend all this time and effort 1852 01:33:29,458 --> 01:33:31,375 if the, you know, 1853 01:33:31,458 --> 01:33:34,267 - we've got a technology... - So, why don't we discuss it more freely? 1854 01:33:34,291 --> 01:33:36,625 Yeah, because it's trade secret! That's why! 1855 01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:38,542 And because you won't sign an NDA! 1856 01:33:38,625 --> 01:33:40,184 Is there really new technology? 1857 01:33:40,208 --> 01:33:41,417 That's the point. 1858 01:33:41,500 --> 01:33:43,410 Is it really new technology... 1859 01:33:43,125 --> 01:33:45,125 This something no one's been able to do before. 1860 01:33:45,208 --> 01:33:47,375 Okay? Theranos is doing it. 1861 01:33:47,458 --> 01:33:51,500 And unless it's magic, it's a new technology. 1862 01:33:51,583 --> 01:33:53,875 I knew that most of their blood tests 1863 01:33:53,959 --> 01:33:56,375 were run on commercial analyzers 1864 01:33:56,458 --> 01:33:58,417 made by third party companies. 1865 01:33:58,500 --> 01:34:01,375 And so I said, how can this even fall 1866 01:34:01,458 --> 01:34:03,834 under the bucket of trade secrets, 1867 01:34:03,917 --> 01:34:05,583 if these aren't even Theranos machines. 1868 01:34:05,667 --> 01:34:08,417 Are you saying that the trade secrets also covers 1869 01:34:08,500 --> 01:34:10,583 the way in which you run a blood sample 1870 01:34:10,667 --> 01:34:12,000 on the Siemens Advia? 1871 01:34:12,830 --> 01:34:14,166 I think, I don't know the answer to that, 1872 01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:16,917 but I can tell you that it could or it could not. 1873 01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,680 It just feels like you want us to give you the formula for Coke 1874 01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:21,685 in order to convince you that it doesn't contain arsenic. 1875 01:34:21,709 --> 01:34:23,393 Nobody's asked for the formula for Coke. 1876 01:34:23,417 --> 01:34:25,166 We're looking for a generic explanation. 1877 01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:27,830 You don't need to know how they work. 1878 01:34:30,917 --> 01:34:33,166 It sounds like the Wizard of Oz... 1879 01:34:33,291 --> 01:34:35,250 So, we went around in circles, 1880 01:34:35,333 --> 01:34:39,000 and the fact that they were stonewalling 1881 01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:41,917 in such a strong way, 1882 01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,583 made me feel like we were on the right track. 1883 01:34:44,667 --> 01:34:48,375 You know, it seems apparent to us that certainly 1884 01:34:48,458 --> 01:34:51,458 one of your key sources is a young man named Tyler Shultz 1885 01:34:51,542 --> 01:34:53,667 because the concerns that you are raising 1886 01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:55,166 precisely are concerns 1887 01:34:55,250 --> 01:34:57,000 that he raised in the very brief time 1888 01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:58,667 that he was at our company. 1889 01:34:58,750 --> 01:35:00,393 I don't know, I don't remember his exact words, 1890 01:35:00,417 --> 01:35:02,417 but he said, "Well, they know. They know." 1891 01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:04,917 So, I called my grandfather and he said, 1892 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:08,208 "Elizabeth tells me that you've been speaking... 1893 01:35:08,291 --> 01:35:10,500 "that you've been giving trade secrets away 1894 01:35:10,583 --> 01:35:12,208 "to the Wall Street Journal, 1895 01:35:12,291 --> 01:35:15,542 "and, you know, if this story gets published, 1896 01:35:15,625 --> 01:35:19,208 "that essentially, your career will be ruined, but... 1897 01:35:19,291 --> 01:35:21,667 "there's a one-page confidentiality agreement 1898 01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:23,709 you can sign to just make it all go away." 1899 01:35:23,792 --> 01:35:27,834 And so, I go to his house the next morning, and he said, "Okay, well, 1900 01:35:27,917 --> 01:35:31,000 there are actually two Theranos lawyers here right now." 1901 01:35:31,830 --> 01:35:32,625 I was... 1902 01:35:32,709 --> 01:35:35,333 extremely nervous about what was going to happen, 1903 01:35:35,417 --> 01:35:37,250 very uncomfortable with the whole situation. 1904 01:35:37,333 --> 01:35:39,500 They come in and they give me 1905 01:35:39,583 --> 01:35:43,375 a notice to appear in court in about 36 hours, 1906 01:35:43,458 --> 01:35:46,125 a temporary restraining order, 1907 01:35:46,208 --> 01:35:49,917 and a letter signed by David Boies. 1908 01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,830 They really made me feel like I was alone. 1909 01:35:53,166 --> 01:35:55,500 I was the underdog. I was going to get crushed. 1910 01:35:55,583 --> 01:35:57,750 Good morning, Mr. Secretary. 1911 01:35:57,834 --> 01:35:59,830 Good morning. 1912 01:35:59,166 --> 01:36:02,208 Do you recall a time when Tyler came to your home, 1913 01:36:02,291 --> 01:36:03,500 and there were some attorneys 1914 01:36:03,583 --> 01:36:05,250 from the Boies Schiller firm there? 1915 01:36:05,333 --> 01:36:07,500 I wouldn't call them attorneys. 1916 01:36:07,583 --> 01:36:11,830 The man was some sort of an animal. 1917 01:36:12,166 --> 01:36:14,250 Wild animal, 1918 01:36:14,333 --> 01:36:17,208 and he assaulted my grandson. 1919 01:36:17,291 --> 01:36:20,410 Was one of the dumbest things I've ever observed. 1920 01:36:20,125 --> 01:36:22,959 When you say that the man assaulted 1921 01:36:23,410 --> 01:36:24,250 your grandson, can you be... 1922 01:36:24,333 --> 01:36:27,333 Verbally, verbally, he just went after him. 1923 01:36:27,417 --> 01:36:28,792 If it hadn't ended when it did, 1924 01:36:28,875 --> 01:36:30,750 my wife was about to pick an iron out, 1925 01:36:30,834 --> 01:36:33,959 hand iron right out of the fireplace and clobber him. 1926 01:36:36,625 --> 01:36:38,750 My grandfather physically separates us, 1927 01:36:38,834 --> 01:36:40,959 and puts the Theranos lawyers in the living room, 1928 01:36:41,410 --> 01:36:42,417 and I'm in the dining room, 1929 01:36:42,500 --> 01:36:44,625 and he's going between the two rooms negotiating... 1930 01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:47,750 - Like a Secretary of State. - Like a Secretary of State. 1931 01:36:47,834 --> 01:36:52,500 And my grandfather seemed like he had grown... 1932 01:36:52,583 --> 01:36:55,917 that his allegiance to Elizabeth and Theranos had grown even stronger. 1933 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,375 Do you have a high opinion of Ms. Holmes? 1934 01:36:58,458 --> 01:37:00,830 Yes. 1935 01:37:00,166 --> 01:37:02,792 Do you believe that Ms. Holmes was truthful 1936 01:37:02,875 --> 01:37:05,208 with you in all of your interactions with her? 1937 01:37:05,291 --> 01:37:06,792 Yes, I think so. 1938 01:37:06,875 --> 01:37:08,959 In any of her interactions with you, 1939 01:37:09,410 --> 01:37:11,583 did Ms. Holmes ever do anything 1940 01:37:11,667 --> 01:37:13,830 to give you reason to believe 1941 01:37:13,166 --> 01:37:15,125 that she was trying to deceive you? 1942 01:37:15,208 --> 01:37:16,333 No. 1943 01:37:18,125 --> 01:37:19,417 Yeah, that's when... 1944 01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:22,291 lawyers became a really big part of my life. 1945 01:37:22,375 --> 01:37:24,458 They were threatening to sue me for 1946 01:37:24,542 --> 01:37:26,458 violating my nondisclosure agreement, 1947 01:37:26,542 --> 01:37:28,625 for giving up trade secrets. 1948 01:37:28,709 --> 01:37:31,667 Many times, I had written notices to appear in court, 1949 01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:34,875 and at the last minute, they would cancel it. 1950 01:37:35,834 --> 01:37:37,830 Overall, my parents 1951 01:37:37,166 --> 01:37:40,667 spent between 400 and $500,000 1952 01:37:40,750 --> 01:37:42,709 in legal fees. 1953 01:37:42,792 --> 01:37:44,250 It was getting to the point where 1954 01:37:44,333 --> 01:37:47,417 we needed to find money somewhere, so they... 1955 01:37:47,500 --> 01:37:49,250 they said that they would sell their house 1956 01:37:49,333 --> 01:37:51,000 to keep fighting this legal battle. 1957 01:37:53,542 --> 01:37:55,834 So, I ended up talking to a lawyer, 1958 01:37:55,917 --> 01:37:57,792 and they said, they're trying to scare you. 1959 01:37:57,875 --> 01:38:01,208 And he said, one of the options that you can do is you can whistle-blow. 1960 01:38:01,333 --> 01:38:04,458 You could be protected if you talked to a regulatory agency. 1961 01:38:04,542 --> 01:38:09,125 And I'm like, what regulatory agency? How do you that? 1962 01:38:09,208 --> 01:38:12,125 I've been nervous to send or even write this letter. 1963 01:38:12,208 --> 01:38:16,166 Theranos takes confidentiality and secrecy to an extreme level... 1964 01:38:16,250 --> 01:38:18,101 Mistakes always happen in a clinical lab, 1965 01:38:18,125 --> 01:38:20,875 but what went on in Theranos was complete negligence 1966 01:38:20,959 --> 01:38:23,250 and honestly felt criminal in many ways. 1967 01:38:23,333 --> 01:38:25,834 Upper level management constantly made excuses 1968 01:38:25,917 --> 01:38:28,500 for their misgivings... but they continue to... 1969 01:38:32,750 --> 01:38:36,583 I don't feel like it's sort of a cold-blooded scam, right? 1970 01:38:37,417 --> 01:38:39,410 It just seems it started off 1971 01:38:39,125 --> 01:38:41,000 as something small, like one lie, 1972 01:38:41,830 --> 01:38:44,333 and snowballed into this really 1973 01:38:44,417 --> 01:38:46,750 crazy situation. 1974 01:38:46,834 --> 01:38:48,333 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 1975 01:38:50,417 --> 01:38:52,830 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 1976 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:55,417 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 1977 01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:57,542 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ 1978 01:38:57,625 --> 01:38:58,792 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 1979 01:38:58,875 --> 01:39:00,830 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ 1980 01:39:00,166 --> 01:39:02,166 ♪ My, my, my music ♪ 1981 01:39:02,250 --> 01:39:05,125 ♪ Keeps me so hard, makes me say oh my Lord ♪ 1982 01:39:05,208 --> 01:39:06,875 ♪ Thank you for blessing me ♪ 1983 01:39:06,959 --> 01:39:08,875 ♪ With a mind to rhyme and two hype feet ♪ 1984 01:39:08,959 --> 01:39:10,667 ♪ That's good when you know you're down ♪ 1985 01:39:10,750 --> 01:39:12,625 ♪ A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown ♪ 1986 01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:15,410 So, what do you guys think about the FDA clearance? 1987 01:39:19,125 --> 01:39:20,875 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 1988 01:39:20,959 --> 01:39:24,410 It was around the 4th of July of 2015. 1989 01:39:24,125 --> 01:39:26,375 It was euphoria at the company. 1990 01:39:26,458 --> 01:39:29,333 It was, you know... 1991 01:39:29,417 --> 01:39:30,625 ♪ Bust the funky lyrics ♪ 1992 01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:32,208 ♪ Fresh new kicks and pants ♪ 1993 01:39:32,291 --> 01:39:34,226 ♪ You got it like that, now you know you wanna dance ♪ 1994 01:39:34,250 --> 01:39:35,959 This is a very meaningful milestone 1995 01:39:36,410 --> 01:39:37,417 for both Elizabeth and Sunny. 1996 01:39:37,500 --> 01:39:39,875 It felt like a great victory at the time. 1997 01:39:42,792 --> 01:39:46,830 It was a big celebration for a little victory. 1998 01:39:46,166 --> 01:39:47,917 The FDA had finally approved 1999 01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:50,333 one rarely used test for herpes 2000 01:39:50,417 --> 01:39:53,000 to be run on an Edison prototype. 2001 01:39:53,830 --> 01:39:54,959 That was too little too late for Walgreens, 2002 01:39:55,410 --> 01:39:57,917 which put the brakes on opening new Wellness Centers. 2003 01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:59,583 And while Theranos had boasted revenues 2004 01:39:59,667 --> 01:40:02,709 of more than a billion dollars for 2015, 2005 01:40:02,792 --> 01:40:06,208 the actual cash in the door was only a few hundred thousand. 2006 01:40:07,709 --> 01:40:10,500 But Elizabeth and Sunny were not backing down. 2007 01:40:10,583 --> 01:40:13,208 We are going to send a message to Quest Diagnostics. 2008 01:40:13,291 --> 01:40:16,830 Remember, these are the guys who are after us, 2009 01:40:16,166 --> 01:40:18,326 and they're attacking the work that you guys are doing. 2010 01:40:18,375 --> 01:40:20,291 - Are you ready? - Yeah! 2011 01:40:20,375 --> 01:40:22,291 Okay. One, 2012 01:40:22,375 --> 01:40:23,875 two, three. 2013 01:40:23,959 --> 01:40:25,333 Fuck you! 2014 01:40:50,830 --> 01:40:52,959 I saw the alert when I got up in the morning, 2015 01:40:53,410 --> 01:40:55,458 and I read it by my bed. 2016 01:40:55,542 --> 01:40:58,667 It had this really understated headline. 2017 01:41:00,583 --> 01:41:03,959 But the contents of the article were just devastating. 2018 01:41:13,792 --> 01:41:17,583 When I got to work, I read it a couple more times. 2019 01:41:18,410 --> 01:41:21,667 Suddenly, all of the trade secret stuff made sense. 2020 01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:24,333 Oh, I see. It's not a trade secret. 2021 01:41:24,417 --> 01:41:26,000 Um... 2022 01:41:26,830 --> 01:41:28,792 It's a different kind of secret, and, um... 2023 01:41:36,542 --> 01:41:40,375 I did not know that Siemens were being used 2024 01:41:40,458 --> 01:41:43,208 until after the article hit. 2025 01:41:43,291 --> 01:41:45,375 And then that kind of explains 2026 01:41:45,458 --> 01:41:47,458 why we were doing venipuncture, 2027 01:41:47,542 --> 01:41:50,625 as opposed to the fingerstick collection. 2028 01:41:50,709 --> 01:41:55,830 I then started... revamping my résumé. 2029 01:41:57,830 --> 01:41:58,417 I'm sorry, but I did! 2030 01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:06,208 I was lucky when the Wall Street Journal 2031 01:42:06,291 --> 01:42:08,542 actually ended up publishing their article 2032 01:42:08,625 --> 01:42:09,875 because once that happened, 2033 01:42:09,959 --> 01:42:12,208 Theranos' efforts were focused elsewhere. 2034 01:42:12,333 --> 01:42:14,291 We never went to court. We never... 2035 01:42:14,375 --> 01:42:16,709 had any sort of settlement. It just kind of died. 2036 01:42:19,410 --> 01:42:21,667 The fate and future of the company was at stake. 2037 01:42:22,875 --> 01:42:26,830 So, we gathered in our cafeteria. 2038 01:42:26,166 --> 01:42:30,250 Elizabeth and Sunny spoke to what was happening, 2039 01:42:30,333 --> 01:42:32,291 and that these allegations are not true. 2040 01:42:33,375 --> 01:42:35,667 And then, Elizabeth made a comment about 2041 01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:39,410 taking on the Wall Street Journal as a fight. 2042 01:42:45,208 --> 01:42:46,333 I knew immediately 2043 01:42:46,417 --> 01:42:48,500 when I woke up that day that the article 2044 01:42:48,583 --> 01:42:51,250 was having impact because e-mails from readers 2045 01:42:51,375 --> 01:42:53,709 and from colleagues were flowing in to my inbox. 2046 01:42:53,792 --> 01:42:55,917 And I was also getting asked 2047 01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:57,959 to do various media interviews. 2048 01:42:58,410 --> 01:42:59,601 New Wall Street Journal story 2049 01:42:59,667 --> 01:43:01,750 by John Carreyrou. Thanks for joining us, John... 2050 01:43:01,834 --> 01:43:04,166 The article was a wake-up call 2051 01:43:04,250 --> 01:43:06,333 for Silicon Valley. 2052 01:43:06,417 --> 01:43:08,875 This sort of gold rush had been going on. 2053 01:43:08,959 --> 01:43:10,959 These unicorns had been created. 2054 01:43:11,410 --> 01:43:14,625 Companies that have valuations of more than a billion dollars. 2055 01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:16,625 They were staying private much longer 2056 01:43:16,709 --> 01:43:20,250 than start-ups had in the dot-com boom of the late '90s. 2057 01:43:20,375 --> 01:43:23,166 And as a result, they were able to be less transparent 2058 01:43:23,250 --> 01:43:25,830 than companies that have to report 2059 01:43:25,208 --> 01:43:26,917 to investors every quarter. 2060 01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,750 And I think suddenly there was a realization in Silicon Valley 2061 01:43:29,834 --> 01:43:33,750 that this has allowed fraud to thrive. 2062 01:43:38,625 --> 01:43:40,625 Obviously, when I called Theranos 2063 01:43:40,750 --> 01:43:42,470 and tried to speak to Elizabeth and was told 2064 01:43:42,542 --> 01:43:45,792 that she was going to be unavailable all day. 2065 01:43:45,917 --> 01:43:50,375 She was being inducted into the Harvard Medical School Board of Fellows. 2066 01:43:52,458 --> 01:43:56,166 And, um... I was just stunned. 2067 01:43:56,250 --> 01:43:57,959 I was thinking in my mind, 2068 01:43:58,410 --> 01:44:00,830 the Wall Street Journal has just said... 2069 01:44:01,208 --> 01:44:03,792 that you're a fraud, and that you're company is a fraud, 2070 01:44:03,917 --> 01:44:07,583 and the company I put on the cover of a magazine is a fraud, 2071 01:44:08,500 --> 01:44:10,500 and you're going to spend... 2072 01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:15,417 the whole day... 2073 01:44:18,333 --> 01:44:21,250 hiding out at this, uh... 2074 01:44:24,410 --> 01:44:25,625 at this, uh... 2075 01:44:27,917 --> 01:44:30,542 honorary horseshit, you know? 2076 01:44:30,625 --> 01:44:32,500 You need to get out here, 2077 01:44:32,583 --> 01:44:34,667 and go through this article, 2078 01:44:34,750 --> 01:44:37,333 paragraph by paragraph, 2079 01:44:37,417 --> 01:44:41,208 explaining what the fuck's going on at your company. 2080 01:44:44,417 --> 01:44:45,685 Your article was pretty brutal, 2081 01:44:45,709 --> 01:44:47,226 but here on Mad Money, we know something. 2082 01:44:47,250 --> 01:44:49,959 We know that there are two sides to every single story. 2083 01:44:50,410 --> 01:44:52,458 Coming to us this afternoon from Boston, 2084 01:44:52,542 --> 01:44:54,434 where she's attending a meeting of the Board of Fellows 2085 01:44:54,458 --> 01:44:57,291 at Harvard Medical School, to give her a chance to answer 2086 01:44:57,375 --> 01:44:59,830 the charges raised in the article. 2087 01:44:59,166 --> 01:45:01,750 Ms. Holmes, welcome back to Mad Money. 2088 01:45:01,834 --> 01:45:03,250 It's great to be here, thank you. 2089 01:45:03,333 --> 01:45:06,830 This is what happens when you work to change things, 2090 01:45:06,166 --> 01:45:09,375 and first they think you're crazy, then they fight you. 2091 01:45:09,458 --> 01:45:11,709 And then, all of a sudden, you change the world. 2092 01:45:11,792 --> 01:45:14,830 And, um, I have to say, 2093 01:45:14,166 --> 01:45:16,542 I personally was shocked to see that 2094 01:45:16,625 --> 01:45:18,875 the Journal would publish something like this. 2095 01:45:18,959 --> 01:45:21,458 Every single one of the sources that 2096 01:45:21,542 --> 01:45:24,458 we spoke with who the Journal had contacted told us 2097 01:45:24,542 --> 01:45:27,333 that the statements that were being attributed to them 2098 01:45:27,417 --> 01:45:29,333 were false or misleading... 2099 01:45:29,417 --> 01:45:34,375 She decided to come out and address my story and rebut it. 2100 01:45:34,458 --> 01:45:37,709 Theranos issued a press release calling my reporting false, 2101 01:45:37,792 --> 01:45:40,500 and they were threatening us with litigation. 2102 01:45:40,583 --> 01:45:43,125 The journalism here has been so bad, 2103 01:45:43,208 --> 01:45:44,750 they deserve to be sued, 2104 01:45:44,834 --> 01:45:47,917 but lawsuits rarely resolve issues. 2105 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,542 What's going to resolve this issue is the science, 2106 01:45:50,625 --> 01:45:52,125 the marketplace. 2107 01:45:52,208 --> 01:45:55,500 Um, the company has been successful in Arizona. 2108 01:45:56,375 --> 01:45:58,125 Doctors are happy, patients are happy... 2109 01:45:58,208 --> 01:46:00,917 Doctors and patients were not happy. 2110 01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:03,500 The FDA was so worried about patient safety 2111 01:46:03,583 --> 01:46:05,750 that it banned the use of the nanotainer, 2112 01:46:05,834 --> 01:46:09,417 putting an end to all fingerstick tests at Walgreens. 2113 01:46:09,500 --> 01:46:12,875 CMS conducted a surprise inspection of the Theranos lab, 2114 01:46:12,959 --> 01:46:15,959 and found the blood testing so inaccurate, 2115 01:46:16,410 --> 01:46:18,542 that it posed a threat to patient safety, 2116 01:46:18,625 --> 01:46:20,583 likely to cause serious injury, 2117 01:46:20,667 --> 01:46:22,500 harm, or death. 2118 01:46:22,583 --> 01:46:26,291 CMS revoked the lab's license to operate. 2119 01:46:26,375 --> 01:46:28,625 The letter that prompted CMS to act 2120 01:46:28,709 --> 01:46:31,000 came from Erika Cheung. 2121 01:46:32,410 --> 01:46:33,393 You know, in the end for me, 2122 01:46:33,417 --> 01:46:35,583 it was a bit of a mixed feeling. 2123 01:46:35,667 --> 01:46:38,667 I was really excited because the truth finally got out. 2124 01:46:38,750 --> 01:46:42,208 But then also, a bit of sadness in the fact that, um... 2125 01:46:42,291 --> 01:46:44,625 you know, we all really wanted that project to succeed. 2126 01:46:44,709 --> 01:46:48,830 Have you been able to win your argument 2127 01:46:48,166 --> 01:46:50,417 with your grandfather in terms of persuading him 2128 01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:52,291 of the problems at Theranos? 2129 01:46:52,375 --> 01:46:56,410 He said that he had no idea how much deception there was, 2130 01:46:56,125 --> 01:46:58,667 and that he was proud of me. 2131 01:46:58,750 --> 01:47:00,166 Yeah. 2132 01:47:00,250 --> 01:47:04,917 Yeah, I'm glad he finally really gets it. 2133 01:47:08,500 --> 01:47:11,250 There was a Journal technology conference 2134 01:47:11,333 --> 01:47:15,291 taking place in Laguna Beach in late October 2015, 2135 01:47:15,375 --> 01:47:18,333 and it so happened that more than a year prior 2136 01:47:18,417 --> 01:47:21,500 it had lined up Elizabeth Holmes as one of the speakers. 2137 01:47:21,583 --> 01:47:24,834 Could you get specific on the key points today... 2138 01:47:24,959 --> 01:47:27,250 And not only did she come, she came swinging. 2139 01:47:27,333 --> 01:47:30,208 The tests that are offered are of the highest quality. 2140 01:47:30,250 --> 01:47:33,709 We know what we're doing, and we're very proud of it. 2141 01:47:33,792 --> 01:47:37,000 Were there situations in which you, uh, 2142 01:47:37,125 --> 01:47:39,291 had to dilute blood samples? 2143 01:47:39,375 --> 01:47:40,959 What the Journal described 2144 01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:42,667 that we take a sample, dilute it, 2145 01:47:42,792 --> 01:47:44,667 and put it on a commercial analyzer 2146 01:47:44,792 --> 01:47:47,291 is inaccurate, and that's not what we do. 2147 01:47:47,375 --> 01:47:49,101 I watched it on the Journal website, 2148 01:47:49,125 --> 01:47:51,959 and I couldn't believe what she just said. 2149 01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,830 There was no question that that was a huge lie 2150 01:47:55,125 --> 01:47:56,875 because they were absolutely doing it. 2151 01:47:56,959 --> 01:47:59,250 We don't actually use the technology 2152 01:47:59,333 --> 01:48:01,875 that's being referred to as Edison for anything, 2153 01:48:01,959 --> 01:48:04,250 and haven't for a few years now. 2154 01:48:04,291 --> 01:48:08,583 When we do fingerstick, every time, we use technology 2155 01:48:08,667 --> 01:48:10,959 that is not commercially available. 2156 01:48:11,830 --> 01:48:12,583 We have never used 2157 01:48:12,667 --> 01:48:15,830 commercially available lab equipment 2158 01:48:15,125 --> 01:48:16,709 for fingerstick-based tests. 2159 01:48:16,792 --> 01:48:18,542 Every fingerstick test... 2160 01:48:18,625 --> 01:48:21,458 I had underestimated her willingness 2161 01:48:21,542 --> 01:48:25,709 to bald-face lie in public, on our turf. 2162 01:48:25,792 --> 01:48:28,291 I guess what I really want to know is, do you feel now, 2163 01:48:28,375 --> 01:48:32,458 in hindsight, that maybe you went market a little too quickly? 2164 01:48:32,542 --> 01:48:34,302 Did you feel pressured to do that in any way? 2165 01:48:34,375 --> 01:48:36,250 We're the exact same company. 2166 01:48:36,375 --> 01:48:37,959 Nothing has changed. 2167 01:48:38,410 --> 01:48:40,834 We're working every single day to try to get these tests 2168 01:48:40,917 --> 01:48:43,125 and systems to meet the highest quality standards. 2169 01:48:55,542 --> 01:48:58,250 Couple of months after John Carreyrou's article, 2170 01:48:58,291 --> 01:49:01,750 I wrote a new story. 2171 01:49:01,834 --> 01:49:06,458 It was both a correction and a mea culpa. 2172 01:49:06,542 --> 01:49:10,125 And I said that Elizabeth had intentionally misled me. 2173 01:49:12,417 --> 01:49:14,500 After I published the piece, 2174 01:49:14,583 --> 01:49:16,125 Elizabeth called me, 2175 01:49:16,208 --> 01:49:19,750 and there was a long conversation. 2176 01:49:19,834 --> 01:49:22,291 She was not apologetic. She said, 2177 01:49:22,417 --> 01:49:25,250 "I never would intentionally try to mislead you. 2178 01:49:25,291 --> 01:49:27,166 Why would we do that?" 2179 01:49:27,250 --> 01:49:30,834 She was trying to persuade me to take out that sentence. 2180 01:49:30,917 --> 01:49:32,250 She said something like, 2181 01:49:32,291 --> 01:49:34,500 "If you're not going to take that language out, 2182 01:49:34,583 --> 01:49:38,166 we're going to have to do something about that language," 2183 01:49:38,250 --> 01:49:39,667 which was a little menacing, 2184 01:49:39,750 --> 01:49:43,959 but all that they then did was they wrote a letter. 2185 01:49:44,410 --> 01:49:45,959 Toward the end, there was a weird paragraph, 2186 01:49:46,410 --> 01:49:48,417 something to the effect that Elizabeth didn't even realize 2187 01:49:48,500 --> 01:49:51,709 that Fortune was doing a feature profile, 2188 01:49:51,792 --> 01:49:53,542 let alone a cover. 2189 01:49:53,625 --> 01:49:55,750 And it was so, such a... 2190 01:49:56,709 --> 01:49:59,291 bizarre thing 'cause... 2191 01:50:00,458 --> 01:50:03,830 I was out there four days and... 2192 01:50:03,583 --> 01:50:06,410 I had called all these people at her behest. 2193 01:50:06,125 --> 01:50:07,583 You know, seven directors, 2194 01:50:07,667 --> 01:50:10,542 the head of UCSF Medical Center, 2195 01:50:10,625 --> 01:50:12,625 the head of Blue Cross Blue Shield. 2196 01:50:12,709 --> 01:50:16,830 I spent an hour and a half with her parents. I met her brother. 2197 01:50:16,166 --> 01:50:19,417 I asked her about the letter she wrote when she was nine. 2198 01:50:19,500 --> 01:50:22,208 I asked her about the book her father gave her 2199 01:50:22,291 --> 01:50:24,834 when she went away to school, which was 2200 01:50:24,917 --> 01:50:27,250 Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. 2201 01:50:27,333 --> 01:50:29,417 And then there was the photo shoot! 2202 01:50:29,500 --> 01:50:31,375 It was a big-name photographer, 2203 01:50:31,458 --> 01:50:34,500 and his assistants, and the lighting equipment, 2204 01:50:34,583 --> 01:50:37,410 and taking a couple hundred photos 2205 01:50:37,125 --> 01:50:40,250 in different locations and different poses. 2206 01:50:40,333 --> 01:50:42,709 That was a clue, you know? 2207 01:50:46,333 --> 01:50:49,333 This was real lunacy. 2208 01:50:50,834 --> 01:50:53,291 I realized that there was something wrong with her mind, 2209 01:50:53,375 --> 01:50:58,834 that, um, you know, I don't know if she's lying or if she's... 2210 01:50:59,834 --> 01:51:03,583 uh, there's an unconscious, um, 2211 01:51:03,667 --> 01:51:05,583 reconstruct... self-protective, 2212 01:51:05,667 --> 01:51:08,410 reconstruction of reality that's going on. 2213 01:51:08,125 --> 01:51:10,830 But what is coming out of her mouth 2214 01:51:10,166 --> 01:51:12,750 is not mapping onto reality 2215 01:51:12,834 --> 01:51:14,792 as you or I know it, you know? 2216 01:51:20,917 --> 01:51:22,750 I wish I could say to her, 2217 01:51:22,834 --> 01:51:24,559 "Elizabeth, I'm going to give you a truth serum, 2218 01:51:24,583 --> 01:51:26,166 "and you're going to tell me 2219 01:51:26,250 --> 01:51:29,709 what was going through your mind at that time." 2220 01:51:30,208 --> 01:51:32,875 And the question becomes, do you... 2221 01:51:32,959 --> 01:51:35,792 do we believe that she would say, 2222 01:51:35,875 --> 01:51:38,000 "I knowingly lied?" 2223 01:51:39,166 --> 01:51:41,458 I have a hard time 2224 01:51:41,542 --> 01:51:43,333 imagining her saying that. 2225 01:51:46,250 --> 01:51:49,625 She was a zealot, and a zealot is such a believer, 2226 01:51:49,709 --> 01:51:51,959 a true believer, in what they're doing 2227 01:51:52,410 --> 01:51:55,830 that they're blind to the reality of what's happening. 2228 01:51:56,333 --> 01:51:58,583 Not for a moment do I believe 2229 01:51:58,667 --> 01:52:02,291 that she lies in bed at night and thinks, 2230 01:52:02,375 --> 01:52:06,830 "I was a swindler. I was a crook. I lied." 2231 01:52:10,834 --> 01:52:15,000 So one day, I get an e-mail from somebody who works with Elizabeth Holmes. 2232 01:52:15,830 --> 01:52:19,792 He asked me if I would come and meet with their team and with Elizabeth. 2233 01:52:19,875 --> 01:52:21,625 I said sure. 2234 01:52:21,709 --> 01:52:25,375 Part of my research is actually about human motivation, 2235 01:52:25,458 --> 01:52:28,834 and she was very concerned about the demotivation in the company. 2236 01:52:28,917 --> 01:52:32,458 Right? Because the continuous stories 2237 01:52:32,542 --> 01:52:36,417 around them were demotivating. 2238 01:52:36,500 --> 01:52:42,417 My impression was that she truly believed in the mission of the company, 2239 01:52:42,500 --> 01:52:45,208 and that she also believes that they are 2240 01:52:45,291 --> 01:52:48,583 on the way to achieve something, 2241 01:52:48,667 --> 01:52:51,291 and they just need the runway. 2242 01:52:54,625 --> 01:52:57,000 There's a lot of lying in Silicon Valley. 2243 01:52:59,542 --> 01:53:02,583 And I remember when my first book on dishonesty came out, 2244 01:53:02,667 --> 01:53:05,208 and I did a book tour, and I gave a few talks 2245 01:53:05,291 --> 01:53:07,750 in Silicon Valley, some entrepreneur said, 2246 01:53:07,834 --> 01:53:11,830 "Oh, we are in technology. Technology doesn't lie." 2247 01:53:11,166 --> 01:53:13,590 Right? So, and they basically said, 2248 01:53:13,830 --> 01:53:15,208 "We are honest, there's no opportunities." 2249 01:53:15,291 --> 01:53:17,625 And I didn't say anything, but in two minutes, 2250 01:53:17,709 --> 01:53:20,166 all kind of people from the start-ups around him 2251 01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:23,792 started talking about how they lie to investors. 2252 01:53:24,500 --> 01:53:27,000 And they have all these graphs of growth, right? 2253 01:53:27,830 --> 01:53:28,917 I mean, they're predicting the future, 2254 01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:31,250 and they putting exact numbers on their... 2255 01:53:31,333 --> 01:53:35,410 And my thought was that there is this idea 2256 01:53:35,125 --> 01:53:38,375 in Silicon Valley, where you, um... 2257 01:53:38,458 --> 01:53:41,000 in a very brave way, 2258 01:53:41,834 --> 01:53:45,792 put a post somewhere really far 2259 01:53:45,875 --> 01:53:49,830 that you truly have no idea if you can get there. 2260 01:53:49,166 --> 01:53:52,917 And my sense from the discussion with Elizabeth was 2261 01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:55,917 that she felt that she was basically 2262 01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,625 doing the same thing that everybody else is doing. 2263 01:54:00,959 --> 01:54:02,685 We have lots of people who are overconfident, 2264 01:54:02,709 --> 01:54:05,125 and from time to time, some of them work out, 2265 01:54:05,208 --> 01:54:08,166 and we get penicillin, or the incandescent light bulb, 2266 01:54:08,250 --> 01:54:11,333 or we get... 2267 01:54:13,250 --> 01:54:15,291 And if you are surrounded by companies 2268 01:54:15,375 --> 01:54:17,583 who try very hard and dedicate their lives 2269 01:54:17,667 --> 01:54:20,875 to achieve the impossible, 2270 01:54:20,959 --> 01:54:24,208 and then sometimes they are successful in doing it, 2271 01:54:24,291 --> 01:54:26,208 why can't you? 2272 01:54:29,410 --> 01:54:30,458 At the highest level, 2273 01:54:30,542 --> 01:54:33,208 we didn't have the right leadership in the laboratory, 2274 01:54:33,291 --> 01:54:35,830 and I didn't realize 2275 01:54:35,166 --> 01:54:37,417 until the inspection 2276 01:54:37,500 --> 01:54:39,542 that these types of issues were in place. 2277 01:54:39,625 --> 01:54:41,792 So, until the government told you 2278 01:54:41,875 --> 01:54:43,393 that you were really out of compliance, 2279 01:54:43,417 --> 01:54:44,583 - you didn't know? - Yeah. 2280 01:54:44,667 --> 01:54:46,417 What was your reaction when you found out 2281 01:54:46,500 --> 01:54:47,834 that you had all these violations 2282 01:54:47,917 --> 01:54:49,500 - in your lab? - It was devastating. 2283 01:54:49,583 --> 01:54:51,542 Don't blame anyone else. 2284 01:54:51,625 --> 01:54:54,650 You have controlling shares in that company, Elizabeth Holmes. 2285 01:54:54,125 --> 01:54:55,458 The buck stops there. 2286 01:54:55,542 --> 01:55:00,458 People make mistakes, but you must always admit it. 2287 01:55:00,542 --> 01:55:01,875 My husband's favorite phrase: 2288 01:55:01,959 --> 01:55:04,750 "Excuses are like assholes. Everyone has one." 2289 01:55:04,834 --> 01:55:07,250 Sorry. You don't have to put that in there. 2290 01:55:07,333 --> 01:55:09,333 One of the headlines was, 2291 01:55:09,417 --> 01:55:11,667 "$9 Billion Company Down to Zero." 2292 01:55:11,750 --> 01:55:13,583 And your investors and your board members 2293 01:55:13,667 --> 01:55:15,208 are reading those same things. 2294 01:55:15,291 --> 01:55:17,542 It's probably the most important question, I think, 2295 01:55:17,625 --> 01:55:19,458 anybody who's watching has about this. 2296 01:55:19,542 --> 01:55:21,875 - Does it work? - Yes. 2297 01:55:21,959 --> 01:55:25,458 - You're confident in that? - I am confident in that. 2298 01:55:25,542 --> 01:55:28,834 Without further ado, I'd like to welcome Elizabeth Holmes, 2299 01:55:28,917 --> 01:55:31,917 founder and CEO of Theranos, to the stage. 2300 01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:33,875 Elizabeth did not give up. 2301 01:55:33,959 --> 01:55:36,000 She fought back by taking center stage 2302 01:55:36,830 --> 01:55:39,709 at a clinical lab conference in front of all her critics. 2303 01:55:39,792 --> 01:55:43,417 She defiantly unveiled the machine she'd been hiding for so long. 2304 01:55:43,500 --> 01:55:46,375 - The miniLab is designed... - She called it "miniLab," 2305 01:55:46,458 --> 01:55:48,000 as if it were a new invention. 2306 01:55:48,830 --> 01:55:50,291 This is an inflection point for our company... 2307 01:55:50,375 --> 01:55:53,375 But inside Theranos, it had another name. 2308 01:55:53,458 --> 01:55:55,667 Edison 4.0. 2309 01:55:58,410 --> 01:56:00,500 By 2017, Theranos had spent 2310 01:56:00,583 --> 01:56:03,875 virtually all of the $900 million it had raised. 2311 01:56:03,959 --> 01:56:06,875 Nearly 300 million went to pay legal fees, 2312 01:56:06,959 --> 01:56:08,750 settle lawsuits from investors, 2313 01:56:08,834 --> 01:56:13,000 and to refund every patient in Arizona for their blood tests. 2314 01:56:13,834 --> 01:56:15,667 Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, 2315 01:56:15,750 --> 01:56:18,542 and even David Boies resigned from the board. 2316 01:56:19,458 --> 01:56:21,291 Elizabeth broke up with Sunny 2317 01:56:21,375 --> 01:56:23,125 and fired him from the company. 2318 01:56:23,208 --> 01:56:27,000 But she never lost her faith in the power of invention. 2319 01:56:29,410 --> 01:56:32,542 It's finding... what you love, 2320 01:56:32,625 --> 01:56:34,458 and finding what you're born to do, 2321 01:56:34,542 --> 01:56:37,125 and when you find that, whether it's... 2322 01:56:37,208 --> 01:56:39,166 you know, writing, or painting, 2323 01:56:39,250 --> 01:56:42,166 or science, or whatever it is, when you... 2324 01:56:42,667 --> 01:56:44,375 when you really 2325 01:56:44,458 --> 01:56:47,166 give everything to that, then... 2326 01:56:48,208 --> 01:56:51,542 then you can realize great things and... 2327 01:56:52,291 --> 01:56:54,291 we'll fail 10,000 times if we have to, 2328 01:56:54,375 --> 01:56:58,583 but we'll figure it out on the 10,0001st, you know. 2329 01:57:21,375 --> 01:57:24,410 Ms. Holmes, please raise your right hand. 2330 01:57:24,125 --> 01:57:25,768 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 2331 01:57:25,792 --> 01:57:27,750 - and nothing but the truth? - I do. 2332 01:57:39,410 --> 01:57:40,208 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2333 01:57:42,583 --> 01:57:43,750 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2334 01:57:46,830 --> 01:57:47,000 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2335 01:57:47,830 --> 01:57:49,625 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ 2336 01:57:49,709 --> 01:57:50,625 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2337 01:57:50,709 --> 01:57:52,291 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ 2338 01:57:52,375 --> 01:57:54,458 ♪ My, my, my, my music ♪ 2339 01:57:54,542 --> 01:57:55,667 ♪ Keeps me so hard ♪ 2340 01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:57,667 ♪ Makes me say Oh my Lord ♪ 2341 01:57:57,750 --> 01:57:59,125 ♪ Thank you for blessing me ♪ 2342 01:57:59,208 --> 01:58:01,000 ♪ With a mind to rhyme and two hype feet ♪ 2343 01:58:01,830 --> 01:58:02,875 ♪ It feels good when you know you're down ♪ 2344 01:58:02,959 --> 01:58:04,667 ♪ A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown ♪ 2345 01:58:04,750 --> 01:58:06,333 ♪ And I'm known as such ♪ 2346 01:58:06,417 --> 01:58:08,750 ♪ And this is the beat you can't touch... ♪ 2347 01:58:09,500 --> 01:58:11,166 ♪ I told you, homeboy ♪ 2348 01:58:11,291 --> 01:58:12,959 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2349 01:58:13,410 --> 01:58:14,792 ♪ Yeah, that's how we living and you know ♪ 2350 01:58:14,875 --> 01:58:16,792 ♪ Can't touch this ♪ 2351 01:58:16,875 --> 01:58:18,375 ♪ Look in my eyes, man ♪ 2352 01:58:18,458 --> 01:58:19,208 ♪ You can't touch this ♪ 2353 01:58:19,291 --> 01:58:20,709 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ 2354 01:58:20,792 --> 01:58:22,851 ♪ Yo, let me bust the funky lyrics, can't touch this ♪ 2355 01:58:22,875 --> 01:58:24,542 ♪ Fresh new kicks and pants ♪ 2356 01:58:24,625 --> 01:58:26,559 ♪ You got it like that now you know you wanna dance ♪ 2357 01:58:26,583 --> 01:58:28,410 ♪ So move out of your seat ♪ 2358 01:58:28,125 --> 01:58:30,166 ♪ And get a fly girl and catch this beat ♪ 2359 01:58:30,250 --> 01:58:31,166 ♪ While it's rollin' ♪ 2360 01:58:31,250 --> 01:58:32,458 ♪ Hold on pump a little bit ♪ 2361 01:58:32,542 --> 01:58:35,166 ♪ And let me know it's going on like that, like that ♪ 2362 01:58:35,250 --> 01:58:36,917 ♪ Cold on a mission so fall on back ♪ 2363 01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:38,875 ♪ Let 'em know that you're too much ♪ 2364 01:58:38,959 --> 01:58:41,250 ♪ And this is a beat they can't touch ♪ 189356

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.