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1
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Is that all you got?
2
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I was hoping to trade these
for some coffee beans.
3
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You hungry?
4
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Yeah.
5
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Get some water.
6
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I'll make lunch.
7
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You know what to do, son.
8
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Yes, sir.
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Remember...
10
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this is our land.
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It's kill or be killed.
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Mr. Schwieger. State Police.
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I need you to step outside.
14
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Now.
15
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Kill or be killed.
16
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So where are we going?
17
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What are we doing?
18
00:01:24,931 --> 00:01:27,643
And who is this wonder of
wonders I just have to meet?
19
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What did you call him?
A walking anachronism?
20
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Lucas Schwieger, 16.
21
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He never attended school.
22
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He lives a completely sheltered existence
23
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in a cabin with no
electricity or running water
24
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in the woods above Sullivan County.
25
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His father, whom he lived with,
26
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described himself as
a radical survivalist.
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He was, as far as I can tell,
the only person
28
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that Lucas had any sustained contact with
29
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during his 16 years of life.
30
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Wow.
31
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A caseworker with
Child Protective Services
32
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heard about him, grew concerned,
came to pay him a visit...
33
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escorted by the New York State Police.
34
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"Father and son opened fire,
killing the caseworker
35
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"and wounding the State Police officer,
36
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who fired back, killing the father."
37
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Ballistics indicate that while
Lucas shot the police officer,
38
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wounding him in the leg,
he didn't actually kill anyone.
39
00:02:17,284 --> 00:02:19,228
It was the father's gun that did that.
40
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Nonetheless, he's being charged
as an adult for murder
41
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as part of a joint venture.
42
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Does he even understand
what's going on? The charges?
43
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That they want him to stand trial?
44
00:02:29,298 --> 00:02:30,973
They want to punish him
for what happened?
45
00:02:30,997 --> 00:02:33,042
He didn't even understand
what an attorney was
46
00:02:33,066 --> 00:02:35,044
until I explained it to him.
47
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You know, it's not like
he's mentally impaired.
48
00:02:37,170 --> 00:02:38,881
In fact, in the little time
I've spent with him,
49
00:02:38,905 --> 00:02:40,583
he seems innately intelligent.
50
00:02:40,607 --> 00:02:42,118
But his only understanding of the world
51
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is what's been taught
to him by his father.
52
00:02:43,944 --> 00:02:45,955
Well, obviously, some doctor, somewhere,
53
00:02:45,979 --> 00:02:48,078
deemed him fit to stand trial.
54
00:02:48,102 --> 00:02:50,193
You should also know that Lucas did speak
55
00:02:50,217 --> 00:02:51,928
to the police on the record.
56
00:02:51,952 --> 00:02:54,230
He already admitted he shot the officer.
57
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Expressed clear intent.
58
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Insisted he would do it again.
59
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He's a friend.
60
00:03:24,563 --> 00:03:26,062
My name's Dr. Jason Bull.
61
00:03:26,086 --> 00:03:27,797
Dr. Statton wanted me to meet you.
62
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See if I could help you.
63
00:03:29,943 --> 00:03:31,834
Doctor, huh?
64
00:03:31,858 --> 00:03:33,503
I'm not sick.
65
00:03:33,527 --> 00:03:35,872
No. I'm not the doctor
that helps sick people.
66
00:03:35,896 --> 00:03:38,941
I'm the doctor that helps people
when they get into trouble,
67
00:03:39,369 --> 00:03:40,510
when they have to go to court.
68
00:03:42,164 --> 00:03:43,339
Do you know what court is?
69
00:03:43,363 --> 00:03:46,105
Did Dr. Statton explain
about court to you?
70
00:03:50,243 --> 00:03:51,840
Let me start over.
71
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,216
First of all,
I'm sorry about your father.
72
00:03:58,798 --> 00:04:00,365
They had better guns.
73
00:04:03,643 --> 00:04:06,104
How about your mom?
74
00:04:06,938 --> 00:04:08,170
Do you ever see her?
75
00:04:08,701 --> 00:04:10,039
Is there any way I could talk to her?
76
00:04:10,063 --> 00:04:11,276
No.
77
00:04:11,598 --> 00:04:13,075
She hung herself.
78
00:04:13,426 --> 00:04:14,994
It was when I was a little kid.
79
00:04:17,157 --> 00:04:18,367
I'm sorry.
80
00:04:25,237 --> 00:04:26,471
Lucas...
81
00:04:27,180 --> 00:04:29,025
...do you understand you could spend
82
00:04:29,049 --> 00:04:31,494
the rest of your life in here, in jail?
83
00:04:32,005 --> 00:04:33,796
And I'm guessing you don't
want that. Am I right?
84
00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:35,231
I just want to go home.
85
00:04:35,255 --> 00:04:38,424
And that's what we want to try
and make happen.
86
00:04:39,492 --> 00:04:41,348
You all right with that?
87
00:04:45,131 --> 00:04:46,976
I guess so.
88
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,814
All right.
89
00:04:49,302 --> 00:04:52,548
Let me get back to my office,
get this started.
90
00:04:52,572 --> 00:04:54,884
I'm sure I'm gonna want
to talk to you some more.
91
00:04:54,908 --> 00:04:57,386
In the meantime, is there
anything I can bring you?
92
00:04:57,410 --> 00:05:00,446
Anything you miss? Maybe some books?
93
00:05:06,286 --> 00:05:09,543
Well, if you think of anything.
94
00:05:17,664 --> 00:05:23,442
Synced & corrected by -robtor-
www.addic7ed.com
95
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This is Lucas Schwieger. 16 years old.
96
00:05:27,409 --> 00:05:28,753
Charged with murder in the death
97
00:05:28,777 --> 00:05:31,452
of a New York State
Children's Services caseworker.
98
00:05:31,477 --> 00:05:33,955
Yeah. We all got Bull's e-mail
about this kid.
99
00:05:33,980 --> 00:05:35,691
He can't read. Barely speaks.
100
00:05:35,716 --> 00:05:38,053
Lived with his dad off
the grid his whole life.
101
00:05:38,077 --> 00:05:41,065
Oh, and let's not forget
he confessed to the crime.
102
00:05:41,089 --> 00:05:42,299
So I'll just say it.
103
00:05:42,323 --> 00:05:44,241
Can we even help this boy?
104
00:05:44,265 --> 00:05:46,904
We've got the surviving
police officer's testimony.
105
00:05:46,928 --> 00:05:48,472
Plus the confession.
106
00:05:48,496 --> 00:05:50,240
And this client doesn't seem like he's
107
00:05:50,264 --> 00:05:51,775
in a position to really help
his own defense.
108
00:05:51,799 --> 00:05:53,010
And what kind of narrative?
109
00:05:53,034 --> 00:05:54,510
What kind of story can you tell a jury
110
00:05:54,534 --> 00:05:57,247
that makes it okay to ambush
a caseworker and a trooper?
111
00:05:57,271 --> 00:05:58,515
Bull wants to mount
112
00:05:58,539 --> 00:06:01,185
a defense based on persuasive coercion.
113
00:06:01,209 --> 00:06:03,987
Our position will be that,
because of Lucas's sheltered
114
00:06:04,011 --> 00:06:06,824
and isolated upbringing, he
didn't know what he was doing,
115
00:06:06,848 --> 00:06:08,759
other than following the instructions of,
116
00:06:08,783 --> 00:06:13,430
quite literally, the only person
in his life: his father.
117
00:06:13,454 --> 00:06:16,467
Norman Schwieger was delusional
118
00:06:16,491 --> 00:06:18,502
and paranoid and controlling.
119
00:06:18,526 --> 00:06:21,338
He was convinced
that humankind was on the verge
120
00:06:21,362 --> 00:06:23,707
of a cataclysmic end and thought
the only way to survive
121
00:06:23,731 --> 00:06:26,210
was to live a completely
self-sustaining life
122
00:06:26,234 --> 00:06:28,912
away from the scrutiny
of other human beings.
123
00:06:28,936 --> 00:06:32,249
And he forced his son
to live the same way...
124
00:06:32,273 --> 00:06:34,184
cloistered on their small plot of land,
125
00:06:34,208 --> 00:06:36,220
which they didn't even really own,
126
00:06:36,244 --> 00:06:38,055
which Norman rigged
with trip-wired alarms
127
00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:39,851
to warn them of any trespassers.
128
00:06:40,504 --> 00:06:41,525
Okay. I'll ask.
129
00:06:41,549 --> 00:06:43,124
What is persuasive coercion?
130
00:06:43,148 --> 00:06:46,196
Basically, Bull wants to argue
for all intents and purposes
131
00:06:46,220 --> 00:06:49,867
that Lucas's father exercised
a kind of mind control over him.
132
00:06:49,891 --> 00:06:51,668
Denied the boy a voice
133
00:06:51,692 --> 00:06:53,937
in any decision-making of any kind.
134
00:06:53,961 --> 00:06:57,374
His job was simply to do
what he was told.
135
00:06:57,398 --> 00:06:59,676
And as a result,
he had no experience choosing
136
00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:01,966
between right and wrong,
no experience choosing anything.
137
00:07:01,990 --> 00:07:04,648
The problem is,
it's an affirmative defense.
138
00:07:04,672 --> 00:07:06,984
Hi. Zero years of law school here.
139
00:07:07,008 --> 00:07:09,186
Though I did watch a lot
of Ally McBeal back in the '90s.
140
00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:11,922
So what does that mean?
"Affirmative defense"?
141
00:07:11,946 --> 00:07:13,557
That means that going in, we admit
142
00:07:13,581 --> 00:07:15,125
to what the prosecution claims he did.
143
00:07:15,149 --> 00:07:17,561
And now it puts the burden on us
to present evidence
144
00:07:17,585 --> 00:07:19,596
that will negate his having done it.
145
00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:22,266
Basically, yes, he shot
at those people, but no,
146
00:07:22,290 --> 00:07:24,410
given the circumstances,
it wasn't his fault.
147
00:07:24,434 --> 00:07:26,442
And how do we make that argument?
148
00:07:26,466 --> 00:07:28,872
Is there anyone left to testify?
149
00:07:28,896 --> 00:07:32,209
With Lucas's father dead,
it leaves us without one witness
150
00:07:32,233 --> 00:07:35,045
who can tell the jury about the
crazy way that Lucas grew up.
151
00:07:35,069 --> 00:07:36,580
And based on Bull's e-mails,
152
00:07:36,604 --> 00:07:38,512
it's highly unlikely that we'll be able
153
00:07:38,536 --> 00:07:40,476
to put Lucas himself on the stand.
154
00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:43,153
Wait a second. Someone saw something,
155
00:07:43,177 --> 00:07:46,190
because Child Protective Services
were sent to this house.
156
00:07:46,214 --> 00:07:47,591
I know those calls are confidential,
157
00:07:47,615 --> 00:07:50,294
but I'll start digging and see
if I can find out who did it.
158
00:07:50,318 --> 00:07:51,862
You know what the trick is gonna be?
159
00:07:51,886 --> 00:07:54,932
Trying to get a jury
to connect with this kid
160
00:07:54,956 --> 00:07:57,434
despite everything about his life
161
00:07:57,458 --> 00:07:59,838
being vastly different from their own.
162
00:08:00,361 --> 00:08:02,882
I can't wait to hear
what the big guy has to say.
163
00:08:04,996 --> 00:08:06,643
You ever seen one of these before?
164
00:08:06,667 --> 00:08:08,612
It's called a tie.
165
00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:11,738
It's what men wear when they
want to be taken seriously.
166
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,008
It hurts. Hurts my neck.
167
00:08:16,444 --> 00:08:18,989
Well, every man who's ever
put one of these on
168
00:08:19,013 --> 00:08:22,392
has thought that, but still...
169
00:08:22,416 --> 00:08:25,285
people have been wearing them
for hundreds of years.
170
00:08:27,782 --> 00:08:29,633
Went to church once.
171
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Saw some there.
172
00:08:34,362 --> 00:08:37,808
So, today... today is all
about picking jurors,
173
00:08:37,832 --> 00:08:40,310
the people who decide whether
to punish you or not.
174
00:08:40,334 --> 00:08:42,212
Mr. Col�n is gonna be
asking people questions.
175
00:08:42,236 --> 00:08:44,114
You don't have to do
anything; just sit there.
176
00:08:44,138 --> 00:08:45,716
Try not to react.
177
00:08:45,740 --> 00:08:48,118
And don't say a word
unless I tell you to.
178
00:08:48,142 --> 00:08:51,121
Remember, people are gonna
be looking at you. Okay?
179
00:08:51,145 --> 00:08:53,056
Trying to figure out who you are.
180
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,992
They might make funny faces.
Don't make any back.
181
00:08:55,016 --> 00:08:56,526
You just sit there, try to smile.
182
00:08:56,550 --> 00:08:58,028
It's probably gonna take the whole day.
183
00:08:58,052 --> 00:08:59,696
Mr. Col�n and I will do our best
184
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,983
to get you out of there
as quickly as possible.
185
00:09:28,082 --> 00:09:29,726
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
186
00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:31,315
Let me ask you all a question.
187
00:09:31,339 --> 00:09:34,965
How many of you, especially
when you were teenagers,
188
00:09:34,989 --> 00:09:37,769
had a less than terrific
relationship with your parents?
189
00:09:38,492 --> 00:09:40,070
You, sir.
190
00:09:40,094 --> 00:09:42,606
You were at war with your folks a lot?
191
00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:44,641
Well, my old man was a taskmaster.
192
00:09:44,665 --> 00:09:46,076
Very old-school.
193
00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:48,679
And I was the kind of kid
who didn't really like rules.
194
00:09:48,703 --> 00:09:49,880
Got it.
195
00:09:49,904 --> 00:09:52,082
And all of you pretty much feel
the same way?
196
00:09:52,492 --> 00:09:55,412
That your parents didn't
necessarily know best?
197
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,725
Your Honor, the defense
would like to thank
198
00:10:01,749 --> 00:10:04,294
and excuse jurors number three,
199
00:10:04,318 --> 00:10:06,714
eight, ten and 12.
200
00:10:07,788 --> 00:10:11,401
We need jurors who see Lucas
was a part of a cult of two.
201
00:10:11,425 --> 00:10:15,105
Brainwashed to hate like a sort
of Manchurian Candidate.
202
00:10:15,129 --> 00:10:17,274
And how do we do that?
203
00:10:17,851 --> 00:10:21,445
We look for people who can be
persuaded to follow a leader.
204
00:10:21,469 --> 00:10:23,580
They may not understand
the environment Lucas
205
00:10:23,604 --> 00:10:25,849
was raised in, but they can relate
206
00:10:25,873 --> 00:10:27,718
to his need to do as he's told.
207
00:10:27,742 --> 00:10:30,120
People who are risk averse
208
00:10:30,144 --> 00:10:32,422
and make middle-of-the-road decisions.
209
00:10:32,446 --> 00:10:33,757
So, tell me, sir,
210
00:10:33,781 --> 00:10:35,525
do you invest in the stock market?
211
00:10:35,549 --> 00:10:36,693
I do.
212
00:10:36,717 --> 00:10:39,262
Do you buy tech stocks,
high-risk investments,
213
00:10:39,286 --> 00:10:41,398
or are you more of a S&P 500
214
00:10:41,422 --> 00:10:42,833
kind of investor?
215
00:10:42,857 --> 00:10:44,835
I actually like to go with mutual funds.
216
00:10:44,859 --> 00:10:47,571
Let someone who knows what
they're doing decide for me.
217
00:10:47,595 --> 00:10:49,696
Play it safe. Get a steady return.
218
00:10:52,333 --> 00:10:54,678
Your Honor, the defense finds
this juror acceptable.
219
00:10:54,702 --> 00:10:56,747
And we have our jury.
220
00:10:56,771 --> 00:10:59,873
The court is in recess
until tomorrow morning.
221
00:11:01,575 --> 00:11:02,686
Nice job.
222
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:04,888
You did everything we asked perfectly.
223
00:11:04,912 --> 00:11:06,790
We had a good day.
224
00:11:07,275 --> 00:11:09,194
Does that mean I can go home now?
225
00:11:09,717 --> 00:11:12,062
No. No.
226
00:11:12,614 --> 00:11:14,297
I'm sorry, this is...
227
00:11:14,321 --> 00:11:15,756
gonna take many days.
228
00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:18,558
Today was a good day
but not the only day.
229
00:11:19,996 --> 00:11:21,428
Are you going home?
230
00:11:22,957 --> 00:11:24,424
Yes.
231
00:11:27,768 --> 00:11:29,672
Is he going home now?
232
00:11:30,137 --> 00:11:31,571
Yes.
233
00:11:35,762 --> 00:11:37,377
But not me?
234
00:11:38,879 --> 00:11:40,524
Not yet.
235
00:11:58,566 --> 00:12:00,944
What are we gonna do
about this confession?
236
00:12:00,968 --> 00:12:04,114
Talk about taking advantage
of someone's limited capacity.
237
00:12:04,138 --> 00:12:05,358
That's why I hung around...
I wanted to get it
238
00:12:05,382 --> 00:12:07,867
- in front of both of you.
- It's pretty damning.
239
00:12:07,891 --> 00:12:09,553
I get the feeling, if they had asked him
240
00:12:09,577 --> 00:12:11,628
where Hoffa's body was buried,
he would have told them.
241
00:12:11,652 --> 00:12:12,924
How about I file a motion
242
00:12:12,948 --> 00:12:15,258
to get the confession thrown out
first thing in the morning?
243
00:12:15,843 --> 00:12:18,261
That's how you get to be Benjamin Col�n.
244
00:12:18,285 --> 00:12:20,082
Does that mean we're done for the day?
245
00:12:20,106 --> 00:12:22,088
I know I am.
246
00:12:28,128 --> 00:12:29,739
Are you happy?
247
00:12:29,763 --> 00:12:31,484
I'm sorry?
248
00:12:32,032 --> 00:12:33,653
Are you happy?
249
00:12:34,034 --> 00:12:37,747
I am lying here naked
next to my naked husband,
250
00:12:37,771 --> 00:12:42,152
watching do-it-yourself bathroom
projects at 8:30 at night.
251
00:12:42,176 --> 00:12:44,321
I'm euphoric.
252
00:12:44,345 --> 00:12:46,112
Why?
253
00:12:49,283 --> 00:12:50,927
I don't know, uh...
254
00:12:50,951 --> 00:12:53,363
the mail was piling up,
and I finally got around
255
00:12:53,387 --> 00:12:55,008
to going through it,
256
00:12:55,389 --> 00:12:58,157
and there was a thing
from a fertility clinic.
257
00:12:59,260 --> 00:13:00,555
A bill.
258
00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:05,041
They wanted to know if they
should keep your eggs frozen
259
00:13:05,065 --> 00:13:07,834
or just... throw 'em away.
260
00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:16,404
I didn't even know that
you had frozen some eggs.
261
00:13:17,144 --> 00:13:19,073
I didn't even know that you...
262
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:20,957
wanted kids.
263
00:13:20,981 --> 00:13:22,201
I mean...
264
00:13:23,536 --> 00:13:25,695
I seem to recall
when we first got married
265
00:13:25,719 --> 00:13:28,231
that we sort of figured out that...
266
00:13:28,255 --> 00:13:30,967
we didn't... want them.
267
00:13:31,377 --> 00:13:32,802
God.
268
00:13:32,826 --> 00:13:36,049
I so didn't see this conversation coming.
269
00:13:38,009 --> 00:13:39,843
I love what we have.
270
00:13:39,867 --> 00:13:42,472
I love our life just the way it is.
271
00:13:43,431 --> 00:13:45,282
But we're paying to keep your eggs
272
00:13:45,306 --> 00:13:48,118
in some stranger's Deepfreeze.
273
00:13:48,142 --> 00:13:50,654
I know.
274
00:13:50,678 --> 00:13:53,580
How can I explain this to you?
275
00:13:55,216 --> 00:13:57,320
After our divorce...
276
00:13:58,905 --> 00:14:00,263
friends with kids kept telling me
277
00:14:00,287 --> 00:14:02,165
that something's gonna happen,
278
00:14:02,189 --> 00:14:04,501
that I'd suddenly want them, too.
279
00:14:04,952 --> 00:14:08,238
That some switch would flip
and it would be too late,
280
00:14:08,262 --> 00:14:10,840
and this was something
I needed to plan for.
281
00:14:10,864 --> 00:14:12,576
And you're right,
282
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,011
I never had that thing,
that... kid thing,
283
00:14:15,035 --> 00:14:18,214
but I thought: "Don't be stupid.
284
00:14:18,675 --> 00:14:21,260
You don't know how you're
gonna feel in five years."
285
00:14:22,309 --> 00:14:23,763
So I did it. I...
286
00:14:24,445 --> 00:14:26,724
just... did it.
287
00:14:27,481 --> 00:14:29,227
I guess...
288
00:14:30,517 --> 00:14:32,355
deep down...
289
00:14:33,013 --> 00:14:35,447
I wanted to have the option.
290
00:14:37,658 --> 00:14:39,736
So did it happen?
291
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,782
Did your... switch flip?
292
00:14:44,932 --> 00:14:46,702
I really don't know.
293
00:14:48,496 --> 00:14:50,046
How would you feel if it did?
294
00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:52,338
I really don't know, either.
295
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:57,843
I think...
296
00:14:57,867 --> 00:15:02,448
I need to give it some
thought before I answer.
297
00:15:03,464 --> 00:15:04,679
Okay.
298
00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:06,973
I think I do, too.
299
00:15:08,182 --> 00:15:09,475
Okay.
300
00:15:25,205 --> 00:15:28,752
So, this morning is just
gonna be about Mr. Col�n
301
00:15:28,776 --> 00:15:31,054
trying to convince the court to ignore
302
00:15:31,078 --> 00:15:33,123
what you told the police
when they arrested you.
303
00:15:33,147 --> 00:15:34,691
The jury's not even gonna be there.
304
00:15:34,715 --> 00:15:36,382
Did I say something bad?
305
00:15:38,452 --> 00:15:41,988
Well, you said you did it,
and you said you'd do it again.
306
00:15:45,826 --> 00:15:48,161
Should I say something different?
307
00:15:49,897 --> 00:15:51,741
No. Just...
308
00:15:51,765 --> 00:15:53,076
do what you did yesterday:
309
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:55,045
Don't speak unless Mr. Col�n asks you to.
310
00:15:55,521 --> 00:15:57,013
Just sit.
311
00:15:57,037 --> 00:15:58,971
We'll do the rest.
312
00:16:00,985 --> 00:16:02,752
Your Honor, the
defense would like to file
313
00:16:02,776 --> 00:16:05,522
a motion to suppress
Lucas Schwieger's statements
314
00:16:05,546 --> 00:16:07,524
to the police at the time of his arrest.
315
00:16:07,548 --> 00:16:08,858
It's gonna be fine.
316
00:16:08,882 --> 00:16:10,093
Your Honor, there are simply
317
00:16:10,117 --> 00:16:11,561
no grounds for this.
318
00:16:11,585 --> 00:16:13,596
The defendant made
a knowing and voluntary
319
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:14,929
and intelligent waiver.
320
00:16:14,953 --> 00:16:18,201
"A knowing and voluntary
and intelligent waiver."
321
00:16:18,225 --> 00:16:20,403
Your Honor, prior to my client's arrest,
322
00:16:20,427 --> 00:16:22,906
he had never even seen a state trooper
323
00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:25,575
or a courtroom or, for
that matter, an attorney.
324
00:16:25,599 --> 00:16:27,944
He didn't even know what an attorney was,
325
00:16:27,968 --> 00:16:30,246
didn't know he had rights under the law.
326
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:31,915
He didn't know anything.
327
00:16:31,939 --> 00:16:34,084
Nothing but what his father told him,
328
00:16:34,108 --> 00:16:36,319
and his father,
who suffered from delusions
329
00:16:36,343 --> 00:16:39,823
and paranoia and a host
of other mental illnesses,
330
00:16:39,847 --> 00:16:41,057
basically told him
331
00:16:41,081 --> 00:16:44,094
that anyone who was not
one of the two of them
332
00:16:44,118 --> 00:16:45,895
was bad and needed to die.
333
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:47,797
He never said that! He-he just... he said
334
00:16:47,821 --> 00:16:49,999
it was our land,
and we had to kill or be killed!
335
00:16:50,023 --> 00:16:51,812
- Lucas.
- My dad taught me how to carve.
336
00:16:51,837 --> 00:16:52,861
He taught me how to fish.
337
00:16:52,885 --> 00:16:54,671
- Lucas.
- He-he taught me how to shoot.
338
00:16:54,695 --> 00:16:55,971
Counselor, control your client.
339
00:16:55,995 --> 00:16:58,053
They came on our land. It
was kill or be killed!
340
00:16:58,078 --> 00:16:59,126
Lucas.
341
00:17:00,741 --> 00:17:02,630
My apologies, Your Honor.
342
00:17:03,570 --> 00:17:05,349
As you can clearly see...
343
00:17:06,048 --> 00:17:07,526
my client is a victim
344
00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:10,061
of a cruel and sadistic upbringing,
345
00:17:10,085 --> 00:17:12,130
one that kept the world
away at all costs.
346
00:17:12,154 --> 00:17:14,299
He simply doesn't know any better.
347
00:17:14,323 --> 00:17:16,368
He couldn't possibly have been expected
348
00:17:16,392 --> 00:17:17,936
to understand his rights
349
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,205
or the consequences of speaking
without an attorney present.
350
00:17:20,229 --> 00:17:22,073
No, no, no, no, no! They killed him!
351
00:17:22,097 --> 00:17:23,376
They came on our land,
352
00:17:23,401 --> 00:17:24,418
and they killed him!
353
00:17:24,442 --> 00:17:25,744
- Lucas, stop.
- We shot at them,
354
00:17:25,768 --> 00:17:27,145
- but they came on our land!
- Mr. Schwieger,
355
00:17:27,169 --> 00:17:29,614
I need you to stay in your seat
356
00:17:29,638 --> 00:17:31,592
- and to refrain from speaking.
- I didn't do nothing wrong!
357
00:17:31,616 --> 00:17:34,286
Officer, return Mr. Schwieger
to holding, please,
358
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:35,577
immediately.
359
00:17:37,540 --> 00:17:39,625
It's okay. You need to go with him.
360
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,427
It's gonna be all right.
361
00:17:42,712 --> 00:17:44,129
Let's go.
362
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,676
This is one of those moments
in a judge's life.
363
00:18:00,836 --> 00:18:03,682
So... let's talk law.
364
00:18:04,191 --> 00:18:07,619
I certainly see the validity
of your argument, Mr. Col�n.
365
00:18:07,643 --> 00:18:09,187
"Knowing and voluntary and intelligent"
366
00:18:09,211 --> 00:18:11,089
hardly describes what went on here.
367
00:18:11,574 --> 00:18:14,025
Your motion to suppress
Mr. Schwieger's statement
368
00:18:14,049 --> 00:18:16,494
to the police from evidence is granted.
369
00:18:16,518 --> 00:18:18,430
However...
370
00:18:18,454 --> 00:18:20,432
I'm not sure the omission
of the statement
371
00:18:20,456 --> 00:18:23,969
will matter much to the jury
if you can't rein in
372
00:18:23,993 --> 00:18:25,379
your client's behavior.
373
00:18:26,028 --> 00:18:27,606
Yes, Your Honor.
374
00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:29,175
Thank you, Your Honor.
375
00:18:32,219 --> 00:18:34,096
What did we get ourselves into here?
376
00:18:34,930 --> 00:18:36,414
He couldn't even keep it together
377
00:18:36,438 --> 00:18:38,550
for a ten-minute motion hearing.
378
00:18:38,574 --> 00:18:40,485
How is he supposed to make it
379
00:18:40,509 --> 00:18:42,577
through eight hours a day of court?
380
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,858
May I ask who's calling?
381
00:18:47,275 --> 00:18:49,043
This is he.
382
00:18:50,479 --> 00:18:52,012
I see.
383
00:18:53,322 --> 00:18:54,866
I see.
384
00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:57,002
No, I'll be right over.
385
00:18:57,026 --> 00:18:58,788
I very much appreciate the call.
386
00:18:59,673 --> 00:19:01,274
Everything all right?
387
00:19:03,032 --> 00:19:05,043
Lucas is in the hospital.
388
00:19:05,067 --> 00:19:07,448
After he returned from court today,
389
00:19:07,472 --> 00:19:09,047
he tried to hang himself.
390
00:19:20,625 --> 00:19:22,603
Sorry I'm late.
391
00:19:22,627 --> 00:19:24,605
What kind of shape is he in?
392
00:19:24,629 --> 00:19:26,841
Well, at the moment,
he's heavily sedated.
393
00:19:26,865 --> 00:19:28,843
One of the other inmates
heard him choking
394
00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:30,411
and called out to the guards.
395
00:19:30,435 --> 00:19:33,381
They cut him down and resuscitated him.
396
00:19:33,405 --> 00:19:36,273
The good news is he's going to be fine.
397
00:19:37,868 --> 00:19:40,021
So, anybody venturing a guess
about when he'll be awake,
398
00:19:40,045 --> 00:19:41,856
when I can get him back in court?
399
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,991
They're guessing his
sedation wouldn't wear off
400
00:19:44,015 --> 00:19:45,526
until midday tomorrow.
401
00:19:45,550 --> 00:19:46,527
Oh.
402
00:19:46,551 --> 00:19:47,595
So...
403
00:19:47,619 --> 00:19:48,763
what now?
404
00:19:48,787 --> 00:19:50,832
Now we roar into the courtroom
tomorrow morning
405
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:52,333
before the prosecution is any wiser,
406
00:19:52,357 --> 00:19:54,735
and Benny files a motion
to try and keep all this
407
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:56,204
from being introduced into the record.
408
00:19:56,228 --> 00:19:58,848
Why? I mean, I'm no lawyer,
409
00:19:58,872 --> 00:20:00,541
but if I'm on the jury,
410
00:20:00,565 --> 00:20:02,109
doesn't the idea that he
411
00:20:02,133 --> 00:20:05,446
almost tried to kill himself
make Lucas look...
412
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:06,948
sympathetic?
413
00:20:06,972 --> 00:20:08,583
You'd think so, wouldn't you?
414
00:20:08,607 --> 00:20:10,852
But that's not how
the other side will spin it.
415
00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:12,353
They will claim it is proof
416
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:14,522
Lucas felt guilty about what he did,
417
00:20:14,546 --> 00:20:17,058
that he knows he did something
he shouldn't have,
418
00:20:17,082 --> 00:20:19,627
and since we're telling the jury
the exact opposite...
419
00:20:19,651 --> 00:20:21,262
that he didn't know the difference
420
00:20:21,286 --> 00:20:22,730
between right and wrong...
421
00:20:22,754 --> 00:20:24,365
the trial would effectively be over
422
00:20:24,389 --> 00:20:26,757
before we ever called a witness.
423
00:20:27,926 --> 00:20:29,558
That the suicide attempt is
424
00:20:29,582 --> 00:20:32,073
somehow connected to
this caseworker's death
425
00:20:32,097 --> 00:20:33,741
is pure speculation.
426
00:20:33,765 --> 00:20:36,010
I mean, look at everything this
young man has been through.
427
00:20:36,034 --> 00:20:37,245
He watched
428
00:20:37,269 --> 00:20:39,947
as his father was shot to death
right in front of him.
429
00:20:39,971 --> 00:20:41,115
He's been pulled away
430
00:20:41,139 --> 00:20:43,017
from the only home he's ever known.
431
00:20:43,041 --> 00:20:45,753
He's spent this last week
either in a-a courtroom
432
00:20:45,777 --> 00:20:47,321
or a jail cell.
433
00:20:47,345 --> 00:20:49,523
If we are going to hypothesize,
434
00:20:49,547 --> 00:20:50,992
shouldn't we say
435
00:20:51,016 --> 00:20:54,195
that maybe depression is the
cause of... of this behavior?
436
00:20:54,570 --> 00:20:55,863
Your Honor,
437
00:20:55,887 --> 00:20:57,506
Dr. Jason Bull.
438
00:20:57,530 --> 00:20:59,800
I'm part of the defense team
and a doctor of psychology.
439
00:20:59,824 --> 00:21:01,249
I know who you are, Dr. Bull.
440
00:21:01,273 --> 00:21:03,704
Well, in my professional opinion,
441
00:21:03,728 --> 00:21:05,673
it's likely that this child
tried to kill himself
442
00:21:05,697 --> 00:21:09,277
because the only man he knew,
the only man he trusted,
443
00:21:09,301 --> 00:21:11,545
his father, was being referred to
444
00:21:11,569 --> 00:21:14,882
as the person most responsible
for his own death
445
00:21:14,906 --> 00:21:16,554
and his son's incarceration.
446
00:21:16,578 --> 00:21:19,687
Now, this man was the boy's God.
His North Star.
447
00:21:19,711 --> 00:21:22,757
Everything he knew about life
he learned from this man,
448
00:21:22,781 --> 00:21:25,493
and to hear that he could be
so profoundly wrong
449
00:21:25,517 --> 00:21:27,495
had to be cataclysmic for him
450
00:21:27,853 --> 00:21:30,831
and was surely reason enough
for him to consider
451
00:21:30,855 --> 00:21:32,858
taking his own life.
452
00:21:35,399 --> 00:21:38,045
I'm not sure what I believe
the boy was thinking.
453
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:40,982
Respectfully,
that's for the jury to decide.
454
00:21:41,099 --> 00:21:43,077
And they won't get to
decide if we withhold
455
00:21:43,101 --> 00:21:45,200
the defendant's suicide
attempt from them.
456
00:21:47,672 --> 00:21:49,650
I agree with the defense,
457
00:21:49,674 --> 00:21:52,486
and I find the prejudicial impact
458
00:21:52,510 --> 00:21:55,489
outweighs the probative value.
459
00:21:55,513 --> 00:21:58,659
The attempted suicide will not
be allowed into evidence.
460
00:21:59,218 --> 00:22:00,561
When will the defendant
461
00:22:00,585 --> 00:22:02,396
be available
so that the trial can resume?
462
00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:04,565
We will get you the answer
to that question
463
00:22:04,589 --> 00:22:06,490
as soon as possible, Your Honor.
464
00:22:08,193 --> 00:22:09,704
I am so sorry.
465
00:22:09,728 --> 00:22:12,440
It's amazing what he can
do in a split second.
466
00:22:12,464 --> 00:22:13,774
It's fine.
467
00:22:13,798 --> 00:22:15,265
Here, Mommy.
468
00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:20,081
How old is he?
469
00:22:20,105 --> 00:22:21,415
22 months.
470
00:22:21,439 --> 00:22:23,351
Uh, almost two.
471
00:22:23,375 --> 00:22:25,453
Two years since I've had
a full night's sleep.
472
00:22:25,477 --> 00:22:26,787
Two years since I've read a book.
473
00:22:26,811 --> 00:22:28,122
Two years since I've been to the gym.
474
00:22:28,146 --> 00:22:29,446
You have kids?
475
00:22:30,782 --> 00:22:32,059
Yeah, I can tell.
476
00:22:32,083 --> 00:22:33,517
You lack frazzle.
477
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:37,054
Bye.
478
00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:42,870
Well, turns out the nearest neighbors
479
00:22:42,894 --> 00:22:44,939
are almost a quarter mile away.
480
00:22:44,963 --> 00:22:46,273
They seemed to know that
there was a teenager
481
00:22:46,297 --> 00:22:47,641
and an old man living near them,
482
00:22:47,665 --> 00:22:49,643
but they said that they'd
sometimes hear gunfire,
483
00:22:49,667 --> 00:22:50,978
so they kept their distance.
484
00:22:51,437 --> 00:22:53,689
Maybe there's someone from their past.
485
00:22:54,539 --> 00:22:56,884
He told me his mother
hung herself when he was little.
486
00:22:56,908 --> 00:22:58,919
I'll bet that's where he got the idea.
487
00:22:58,943 --> 00:23:00,721
- How horrible.
- Maybe there's someone
488
00:23:00,745 --> 00:23:02,823
who knew her, who was friends
with her before she...
489
00:23:02,847 --> 00:23:04,592
That would be great.
490
00:23:04,616 --> 00:23:07,194
Someone we could get to testify
491
00:23:07,218 --> 00:23:09,597
to how Lucas had a
normal life at one time
492
00:23:09,621 --> 00:23:12,256
and a completely isolated
one once the mother passed.
493
00:23:13,358 --> 00:23:15,136
I know it drives the kid crazy,
494
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,604
but we have to keep hammering away
495
00:23:16,628 --> 00:23:18,072
at what a lunatic the father was.
496
00:23:18,096 --> 00:23:20,741
What about the person who called
Child Protective Services?
497
00:23:20,765 --> 00:23:22,076
There's a reason why
498
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:23,327
these folks went out to take a look.
499
00:23:23,351 --> 00:23:25,298
Someone had to have
called in a complaint.
500
00:23:25,322 --> 00:23:27,648
Yep. A woman named Yvonne Fowler.
501
00:23:27,672 --> 00:23:28,983
She won't take my calls,
502
00:23:29,007 --> 00:23:30,618
and she doesn't answer the door
when I visit her house,
503
00:23:30,642 --> 00:23:32,524
but I haven't given up.
504
00:23:32,548 --> 00:23:34,388
Well, I'm about to. I'm exhausted.
505
00:23:34,412 --> 00:23:36,457
Court's back in session
first thing in the morning.
506
00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:38,148
You don't have to tell me twice.
507
00:23:43,454 --> 00:23:46,433
My son is obsessed
with sending me poop emojis.
508
00:23:46,658 --> 00:23:48,213
I wonder if it means something.
509
00:23:48,237 --> 00:23:50,337
You are always on duty, aren't you?
510
00:23:50,663 --> 00:23:52,106
On duty?
511
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:54,064
That's a joke, right?
512
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,778
Hey, let me ask you something.
513
00:23:57,802 --> 00:23:59,880
How'd you know you wanted to have kids?
514
00:24:00,297 --> 00:24:01,715
Was it something...
515
00:24:02,091 --> 00:24:03,651
you just felt in your soul,
516
00:24:03,675 --> 00:24:06,353
or did you just sense
it was the right time?
517
00:24:06,377 --> 00:24:08,989
Neither. It was more like
a three-martini night,
518
00:24:09,013 --> 00:24:10,691
and nine months later we needed a crib.
519
00:24:10,715 --> 00:24:12,626
I mean,
520
00:24:12,650 --> 00:24:13,961
it wasn't planned,
521
00:24:13,985 --> 00:24:16,730
but wouldn't trade it for anything.
522
00:24:17,006 --> 00:24:18,540
You getting an itch?
523
00:24:19,608 --> 00:24:21,469
Not even a tickle.
524
00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:22,861
Greg?
525
00:24:23,528 --> 00:24:25,506
He wants what I want.
526
00:24:25,530 --> 00:24:27,208
At least, that's what he says.
527
00:24:27,533 --> 00:24:29,343
And you don't know what you want.
528
00:24:29,702 --> 00:24:31,345
No.
529
00:24:31,787 --> 00:24:33,180
I envy you.
530
00:24:33,204 --> 00:24:34,748
Really? Why?
531
00:24:34,772 --> 00:24:37,184
It feels terrible from in here.
532
00:24:37,208 --> 00:24:40,421
Because no matter what happens,
no matter what you do,
533
00:24:40,445 --> 00:24:42,546
it's gonna be wonderful.
534
00:24:44,616 --> 00:24:46,093
You're either gonna get what you want,
535
00:24:46,117 --> 00:24:48,318
or you're gonna... get what you want.
536
00:24:52,357 --> 00:24:55,903
The people would like to call
Yvonne Fowler to the stand.
537
00:24:55,927 --> 00:24:57,338
Yvonne Fowler?
538
00:24:57,362 --> 00:24:59,474
Isn't she the one Danny said
called in the complaint
539
00:24:59,498 --> 00:25:00,745
to Child Services?
540
00:25:00,769 --> 00:25:03,193
Looks like she took
the prosecution's call.
541
00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:07,181
I know her.
542
00:25:07,205 --> 00:25:08,616
Ms. Fowler,
543
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:11,352
could you please tell the
court how you came to meet
544
00:25:11,376 --> 00:25:13,053
Lucas Schwieger?
545
00:25:13,662 --> 00:25:16,390
I'm a nurse at St. Benjamin's Hospital,
546
00:25:16,414 --> 00:25:19,927
which is about five miles from
where Norman and Lucas lived.
547
00:25:19,951 --> 00:25:22,363
A few months ago, Norman showed up
548
00:25:22,387 --> 00:25:24,532
in the middle of the night
at the hospital with Lucas.
549
00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:27,350
Norman had walking pneumonia.
550
00:25:27,374 --> 00:25:29,537
Once we got Norman checked in,
551
00:25:29,561 --> 00:25:32,106
I realized Lucas had nowhere to go.
552
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:34,575
So I brought him home with me,
553
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:37,370
thinking it would just be
for a day or so.
554
00:25:37,394 --> 00:25:40,814
But one day turned into two,
two turned into a week,
555
00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:44,575
and Lucas ended up staying
with us for three weeks.
556
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:46,040
And when you say "us"?
557
00:25:46,064 --> 00:25:48,122
Oh. My husband and two children.
558
00:25:48,146 --> 00:25:50,457
Boys. Seven and nine.
559
00:25:50,481 --> 00:25:52,342
So, when the defense claims Mr. Schwieger
560
00:25:52,366 --> 00:25:55,198
spent his whole life in isolation,
561
00:25:55,222 --> 00:25:57,231
that simply isn't true, is it?
562
00:25:57,255 --> 00:25:59,166
I don't know anything
about his whole life.
563
00:25:59,190 --> 00:26:00,901
Well, but you can categorically state
564
00:26:00,925 --> 00:26:02,236
that he lived with you?
565
00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:04,772
Had running water, home-cooked meals,
566
00:26:04,796 --> 00:26:07,841
slept in a warm bed for a period
567
00:26:07,865 --> 00:26:09,468
of three weeks?
568
00:26:10,335 --> 00:26:11,400
Yes, he did.
569
00:26:11,424 --> 00:26:13,414
Now, you're very active in your church,
570
00:26:13,438 --> 00:26:14,815
aren't you, Ms. Fowler?
571
00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:16,250
Our whole family is.
572
00:26:16,274 --> 00:26:17,985
I teach Sunday school.
573
00:26:18,602 --> 00:26:21,288
During the three weeks
Lucas lived with you,
574
00:26:21,312 --> 00:26:22,790
did you ever take him to church?
575
00:26:22,814 --> 00:26:24,124
Every Sunday.
576
00:26:24,148 --> 00:26:27,127
He said he'd never stepped
inside a church before,
577
00:26:27,151 --> 00:26:29,763
and he seemed to like it.
578
00:26:30,197 --> 00:26:33,100
The singing,
the shaking hands, the sermon.
579
00:26:33,124 --> 00:26:35,002
My boys showed him how
580
00:26:35,026 --> 00:26:36,745
to put money in the plate.
581
00:26:37,223 --> 00:26:39,006
Hard to know if this is good or bad
582
00:26:39,030 --> 00:26:40,307
for our side.
583
00:26:40,331 --> 00:26:42,409
Anything that suggests
Lucas knew right from wrong
584
00:26:42,433 --> 00:26:44,044
- is not a help.
- So, I'm curious.
585
00:26:44,068 --> 00:26:46,414
Did you ever take Mr. Schwieger
with you to Sunday school?
586
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:47,948
Yes, I did once.
587
00:26:47,972 --> 00:26:49,116
Could you tell the court what lessons
588
00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:50,551
were being taught that Sunday?
589
00:26:50,575 --> 00:26:53,087
We talked about the Ten Commandments.
590
00:26:53,111 --> 00:26:55,656
And that particular week
was the fifth commandment:
591
00:26:56,348 --> 00:26:58,225
thou shalt not kill.
592
00:27:01,252 --> 00:27:02,529
Jury's slipping away.
593
00:27:02,553 --> 00:27:04,164
They're starting to sense
594
00:27:04,188 --> 00:27:05,633
that he's seen enough of the world
595
00:27:05,657 --> 00:27:07,301
to know the difference
between right and wrong.
596
00:27:07,325 --> 00:27:08,502
You don't just shoot people
597
00:27:08,526 --> 00:27:10,237
when they show up in front of your house.
598
00:27:10,261 --> 00:27:11,995
So, how'd it go in there?
599
00:27:13,097 --> 00:27:14,465
We've had better days.
600
00:27:14,489 --> 00:27:16,410
You still interested in making
the father the villain?
601
00:27:16,434 --> 00:27:19,647
I'm not sure it much matters
to the jury at this point.
602
00:27:19,671 --> 00:27:21,582
Maybe that's because they haven't
heard the really bad stuff.
603
00:27:21,606 --> 00:27:22,996
Really bad stuff? Like what?
604
00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:25,619
Like, how about
telling a child his whole life
605
00:27:25,643 --> 00:27:28,945
that his mother is dead
when she's actually alive.
606
00:27:34,111 --> 00:27:35,693
You good if I smoke?
607
00:27:40,891 --> 00:27:42,025
Anybody thirsty?
608
00:27:42,026 --> 00:27:44,437
We're fine. We just wanted
to ask you a few questions
609
00:27:44,461 --> 00:27:47,440
about your ex-husband, Norman,
and your son, Lucas.
610
00:27:47,464 --> 00:27:50,166
Oh, well, I mean,
I'll tell you everything I know.
611
00:27:51,268 --> 00:27:53,513
Did you know that Norman died?
612
00:27:53,537 --> 00:27:55,532
Shot by a state trooper.
613
00:27:56,199 --> 00:27:59,285
And that your son, Lucas,
is on trial for murder?
614
00:28:00,878 --> 00:28:02,856
No, I didn't know that.
615
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,991
You aware that your son
thinks you're dead?
616
00:28:05,667 --> 00:28:07,026
Well, I'm not surprised.
617
00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:08,695
You ever meet his father?
618
00:28:08,719 --> 00:28:09,863
Never had the pleasure.
619
00:28:09,887 --> 00:28:11,256
What can you tell me about him?
620
00:28:12,156 --> 00:28:14,200
Uh, he's crazy.
621
00:28:14,551 --> 00:28:15,769
I just finally said,
622
00:28:15,793 --> 00:28:18,271
"I'm gonna take Lucas and leave."
623
00:28:18,295 --> 00:28:20,039
And how'd Norman feel about that?
624
00:28:20,063 --> 00:28:22,142
Oh, that night I woke up
625
00:28:22,166 --> 00:28:24,244
and find Norman on top of me
with a pistol in my mouth.
626
00:28:24,268 --> 00:28:26,279
And he said if I ever tried
to take the boy,
627
00:28:26,303 --> 00:28:28,204
he was gonna kill both of us.
628
00:28:29,306 --> 00:28:30,683
How old was Lucas?
629
00:28:31,026 --> 00:28:32,903
He'd just turned three.
630
00:28:33,779 --> 00:28:36,790
So, that night,
the second he fell asleep,
631
00:28:37,282 --> 00:28:38,452
I was out the window.
632
00:28:38,476 --> 00:28:40,850
I didn't even kiss my baby good-bye.
633
00:28:42,746 --> 00:28:44,397
I know it's been a long time,
634
00:28:44,421 --> 00:28:46,065
but we need your son's jury to hear
635
00:28:46,089 --> 00:28:48,067
what it was like to live with that man,
636
00:28:48,091 --> 00:28:51,204
to hear the story you just told us.
637
00:28:51,588 --> 00:28:53,006
Yeah, I don't think so.
638
00:28:53,030 --> 00:28:54,730
I got a really busy schedule.
639
00:28:55,833 --> 00:28:57,977
You have a drug problem, Mrs. Schwieger?
640
00:28:58,001 --> 00:28:59,679
It's not a problem for me.
641
00:28:59,703 --> 00:29:01,181
Okay, I'm gonna step outside.
642
00:29:01,205 --> 00:29:02,715
She's gonna stay in here with you.
643
00:29:02,739 --> 00:29:04,651
I want you to put on
the closest thing you have
644
00:29:04,675 --> 00:29:05,785
to a decent dress,
645
00:29:05,809 --> 00:29:07,520
and then we are going to the courthouse.
646
00:29:07,544 --> 00:29:09,689
And don't try going out the window.
647
00:29:09,713 --> 00:29:11,647
She's ex-FBI.
648
00:29:15,737 --> 00:29:17,030
She could be anybody.
649
00:29:17,054 --> 00:29:18,498
But she isn't.
650
00:29:18,522 --> 00:29:20,342
- Can I smoke?
- No.
651
00:29:22,995 --> 00:29:24,571
She's gonna tell the jury
652
00:29:24,595 --> 00:29:26,606
what life was like with
your father before she left.
653
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:27,874
And you're not gonna like hearing it,
654
00:29:27,898 --> 00:29:30,343
but I need you to promise
that you will not react.
655
00:29:30,367 --> 00:29:32,846
No noises. No faces.
656
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:35,805
No standing. No talking.
657
00:29:37,741 --> 00:29:39,642
Don't worry, I won't do nothing.
658
00:29:43,181 --> 00:29:44,691
I don't even know her.
659
00:29:45,851 --> 00:29:48,428
He knocked me around all the time.
660
00:29:48,452 --> 00:29:50,096
Wouldn't let us go out.
661
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,454
He didn't trust anyone.
662
00:29:51,478 --> 00:29:54,400
Objection, Your Honor.
What does any of this have to do
663
00:29:54,424 --> 00:29:56,402
with whether or not Lucas
Schwieger shot a police officer?
664
00:29:56,426 --> 00:29:58,538
If it pleases the court,
665
00:29:58,562 --> 00:30:00,640
in order to understand what happened
666
00:30:00,664 --> 00:30:02,775
the day of the shooting,
we have to understand
667
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,044
what kind of environment Lucas came from.
668
00:30:05,454 --> 00:30:06,946
Overruled.
669
00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:08,715
Now, you were saying...
670
00:30:08,739 --> 00:30:10,950
He just got stranger and stranger.
671
00:30:10,974 --> 00:30:14,420
He-he stopped letting me
leave the cabin at all.
672
00:30:14,444 --> 00:30:17,090
He... he rigged up alarms
673
00:30:17,114 --> 00:30:18,892
so that he would know
if somebody came and went.
674
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:20,593
He said that the government
675
00:30:20,617 --> 00:30:21,995
was watching him from satellites.
676
00:30:22,345 --> 00:30:23,501
From space?
677
00:30:23,525 --> 00:30:27,300
Yeah. Sometimes at night he'd go outside,
678
00:30:27,324 --> 00:30:29,135
and-and he'd scream at them.
679
00:30:29,159 --> 00:30:30,570
He'd shoot his guns up in the air.
680
00:30:30,594 --> 00:30:32,438
I mean, I was scared all the time.
681
00:30:32,462 --> 00:30:33,940
It was no way to live.
682
00:30:33,964 --> 00:30:37,143
And it probably wasn't any
better for Lucas, either.
683
00:30:37,167 --> 00:30:39,512
Thank you. No further questions,
Your Honor.
684
00:30:39,536 --> 00:30:41,481
Well, that made an impact.
685
00:30:41,505 --> 00:30:43,616
No reds have flipped green, but I can see
686
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,985
that their attitudes
about Lucas are in flux.
687
00:30:46,009 --> 00:30:49,278
For the first time,
they're sympathizing with him.
688
00:30:50,707 --> 00:30:53,386
Let's take a moment
and talk about your past.
689
00:30:53,684 --> 00:30:55,929
Are you the same Brenda Schwieger
690
00:30:55,953 --> 00:30:58,264
who was convicted of forging checks?
691
00:30:58,757 --> 00:31:01,467
Sentenced to court-appointed rehab twice?
692
00:31:01,885 --> 00:31:04,137
Hasn't had a full-time
job in almost 20 years?
693
00:31:04,161 --> 00:31:05,872
And you expect this jury
694
00:31:05,896 --> 00:31:07,206
to believe anything you have to say?
695
00:31:07,230 --> 00:31:08,575
You got me.
696
00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:10,143
I don't even want to be here.
697
00:31:10,602 --> 00:31:12,478
I just was told that I had to.
698
00:31:12,502 --> 00:31:14,213
But I'll tell you this.
699
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:17,016
My husband ruined me.
700
00:31:17,901 --> 00:31:20,553
I used to be a human being.
701
00:31:20,577 --> 00:31:23,623
So whatever kind of person
Lucas has become,
702
00:31:23,647 --> 00:31:27,126
trust me, it's because
his father got him there.
703
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:29,495
If my little baby has become a killer,
704
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:31,954
it's because his father
turned him into one.
705
00:31:40,715 --> 00:31:42,075
She was good.
706
00:31:42,634 --> 00:31:43,977
You think it was enough?
707
00:31:44,001 --> 00:31:45,136
No.
708
00:31:46,069 --> 00:31:47,580
But I have an idea.
709
00:31:48,139 --> 00:31:49,582
So these are of
710
00:31:49,606 --> 00:31:51,008
the inside of the cabin.
711
00:31:51,032 --> 00:31:52,885
As you can see, it's pretty spartan.
712
00:31:52,909 --> 00:31:54,053
You can use these to show
713
00:31:54,077 --> 00:31:56,255
the jury how little stimulation
was available.
714
00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:59,225
No books, no radio, no TV.
715
00:31:59,609 --> 00:32:01,861
Obviously, no computers.
716
00:32:01,885 --> 00:32:04,564
And most importantly,
no outlets for learning.
717
00:32:05,824 --> 00:32:07,767
All right, so these are
the air horns and the trip wires
718
00:32:07,791 --> 00:32:09,502
Norman installed around the property
719
00:32:09,526 --> 00:32:10,937
to ward against intruders.
720
00:32:10,961 --> 00:32:12,105
Got it.
721
00:32:12,129 --> 00:32:14,007
Helps demonstrate the paranoia.
722
00:32:14,031 --> 00:32:15,872
Fear of outsiders, the isolation.
723
00:32:15,896 --> 00:32:17,312
Ready for the next series?
724
00:32:17,336 --> 00:32:18,962
Fire when ready.
725
00:32:23,842 --> 00:32:25,418
What are we looking at here?
726
00:32:25,719 --> 00:32:27,420
It's a homemade target range.
727
00:32:27,444 --> 00:32:29,602
Metal head and torso silhouettes.
728
00:32:29,626 --> 00:32:31,991
By the way,
the police dusted all of this.
729
00:32:32,015 --> 00:32:33,726
The guns, the targets.
730
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:36,462
Lucas's fingerprints were everywhere.
731
00:32:36,486 --> 00:32:38,564
His father's? Norman's?
732
00:32:38,588 --> 00:32:40,275
Not so much.
733
00:32:41,892 --> 00:32:43,361
Wow.
734
00:32:43,727 --> 00:32:45,104
All those bull's-eyes.
735
00:32:45,822 --> 00:32:47,407
One on top of the other. Looks like
736
00:32:47,431 --> 00:32:48,808
Lucas was quite the shot.
737
00:32:48,832 --> 00:32:51,313
How far away would you say
the targets were
738
00:32:51,337 --> 00:32:53,246
from the stand where Lucas
would have been shooting from?
739
00:32:53,270 --> 00:32:55,415
- Had to be at least 50 yards.
- I'm not sure
740
00:32:55,439 --> 00:32:58,317
we really want the jury looking
at this target range.
741
00:32:58,341 --> 00:33:00,184
I mean, it's kind of horrific.
742
00:33:00,208 --> 00:33:02,789
Kind of like looking
at a murderer's training ground.
743
00:33:02,813 --> 00:33:05,058
Actually, I disagree.
744
00:33:05,082 --> 00:33:07,593
I think this is exactly
what the jury needs to see.
745
00:33:07,617 --> 00:33:10,263
Okay. Well, how are we
gonna get all this in?
746
00:33:10,287 --> 00:33:11,464
Who's on the stand?
747
00:33:11,488 --> 00:33:13,332
Can't just stand up in front of a court
748
00:33:13,356 --> 00:33:15,334
and show photos without any context.
749
00:33:15,358 --> 00:33:17,537
We need somebody to authenticate them,
750
00:33:17,561 --> 00:33:19,739
to say that this is really
where Lucas lived,
751
00:33:19,763 --> 00:33:21,474
that this is really what it looked like.
752
00:33:21,498 --> 00:33:23,432
Who are we gonna get to do that?
753
00:33:26,156 --> 00:33:28,491
I was thinking... Lucas.
754
00:33:35,804 --> 00:33:36,914
Good morning, Lucas.
755
00:33:37,626 --> 00:33:39,671
First time in a witness box?
756
00:33:40,543 --> 00:33:41,840
Yes.
757
00:33:42,379 --> 00:33:45,443
Well, you know how this works, right?
758
00:33:45,467 --> 00:33:48,513
They made you raise your
right hand a moment ago, and
759
00:33:48,537 --> 00:33:49,848
you promised to tell the truth.
760
00:33:49,872 --> 00:33:51,015
You understand that, don't you?
761
00:33:51,638 --> 00:33:53,218
Yes.
762
00:33:53,242 --> 00:33:54,686
All right.
763
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:56,559
Now...
764
00:33:57,479 --> 00:33:59,104
Does this picture...?
765
00:33:59,815 --> 00:34:02,694
Does this look familiar to you?
766
00:34:02,718 --> 00:34:04,696
Does it look like a place you know?
767
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,698
Yes.
768
00:34:07,195 --> 00:34:08,566
It's behind my house.
769
00:34:08,988 --> 00:34:11,135
It's a target range.
770
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,338
Right? A place where...
771
00:34:13,362 --> 00:34:15,507
people practice shooting guns?
772
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:17,542
Yes.
773
00:34:17,566 --> 00:34:19,177
You shoot there a lot?
774
00:34:19,201 --> 00:34:20,912
Pretty much almost every day.
775
00:34:20,936 --> 00:34:22,747
All right.
776
00:34:22,771 --> 00:34:25,672
Now how far was that target
from where you shot?
777
00:34:27,507 --> 00:34:28,962
Uh, I-I don't get you.
778
00:34:28,986 --> 00:34:32,323
How many steps? I mean,
if you had to take a guess.
779
00:34:32,929 --> 00:34:34,325
Um...
780
00:34:35,181 --> 00:34:36,494
at least a hundred.
781
00:34:36,518 --> 00:34:37,762
Okay.
782
00:34:37,786 --> 00:34:41,099
And how far away from the house
was the state trooper
783
00:34:41,123 --> 00:34:43,568
and the lady he brought with him?
784
00:34:44,023 --> 00:34:45,570
The one your dad shot?
785
00:34:46,067 --> 00:34:47,572
Maybe...
786
00:34:47,819 --> 00:34:49,774
20 steps.
787
00:34:49,798 --> 00:34:51,309
Never really counted.
788
00:34:51,333 --> 00:34:53,378
Objection. Relevance?
789
00:34:53,402 --> 00:34:56,485
If the court would just indulge
me for a moment more, please?
790
00:34:56,509 --> 00:34:57,763
Overruled.
791
00:34:57,787 --> 00:34:59,038
Thank you, Your Honor.
792
00:35:00,373 --> 00:35:02,854
Do you recognize this picture?
793
00:35:03,585 --> 00:35:05,290
That's what I shoot at.
794
00:35:05,314 --> 00:35:06,991
So these are your bullet holes?
795
00:35:07,015 --> 00:35:09,097
I'm the only one who shoots there.
796
00:35:09,121 --> 00:35:10,300
Huh.
797
00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:15,780
So if you shoot at these targets
pretty much every day,
798
00:35:15,958 --> 00:35:18,808
and they're at least a hundred feet away,
799
00:35:19,728 --> 00:35:22,206
why'd you shoot
that state trooper in the leg?
800
00:35:29,771 --> 00:35:32,250
- The witness will answer the question.
- Oh, that's all right.
801
00:35:32,274 --> 00:35:33,740
I'll rephrase.
802
00:35:34,309 --> 00:35:37,244
Didn't your father tell you,
"It's kill or be killed"?
803
00:35:40,997 --> 00:35:43,294
Again, the witness
will answer the question.
804
00:35:43,318 --> 00:35:44,963
I'll withdraw the question.
Let me ask another.
805
00:35:45,835 --> 00:35:47,465
Do you recognize the phrase,
806
00:35:47,489 --> 00:35:50,173
"thou shalt not kill"?
807
00:35:50,659 --> 00:35:52,217
Have you heard that before?
808
00:35:53,468 --> 00:35:54,627
Yes.
809
00:35:54,651 --> 00:35:56,407
Sunday school, right?
810
00:35:57,451 --> 00:35:58,471
Yes.
811
00:35:58,495 --> 00:35:59,804
And did it go through your mind
812
00:35:59,828 --> 00:36:02,503
when your father told you,
"Kill or be killed"?
813
00:36:07,129 --> 00:36:08,733
Lucas?
814
00:36:11,947 --> 00:36:13,404
Yes.
815
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,761
That's why you shot
that state trooper in the leg
816
00:36:17,367 --> 00:36:19,330
and not through the head or the heart
817
00:36:19,354 --> 00:36:21,454
like you've been practicing
your whole life to do?
818
00:36:22,157 --> 00:36:23,456
Yes.
819
00:36:26,728 --> 00:36:28,106
Thank you, Your Honor.
820
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:29,540
No further questions.
821
00:36:29,564 --> 00:36:31,732
Let's take a 20-minute recess.
822
00:36:38,340 --> 00:36:39,817
Did you bring me in here to gloat?
823
00:36:39,841 --> 00:36:42,053
I brought you in here
to see if we could cut a deal.
824
00:36:42,631 --> 00:36:44,155
A deal?
825
00:36:44,179 --> 00:36:45,890
Why would you want to make a deal?
826
00:36:45,914 --> 00:36:47,925
The jury is almost
certainly going to vote
827
00:36:47,949 --> 00:36:49,327
to let the boy go free.
828
00:36:50,066 --> 00:36:52,263
Because I'm not necessarily convinced
829
00:36:52,287 --> 00:36:54,198
that that's the best thing for him.
830
00:36:56,656 --> 00:36:58,736
Seemed like you guys
were talking for an hour.
831
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,038
Where's he going?
832
00:37:00,062 --> 00:37:01,906
To tell the judge the good news.
833
00:37:02,162 --> 00:37:03,474
We're done.
834
00:37:03,498 --> 00:37:05,243
No more jail, no more court.
835
00:37:06,499 --> 00:37:07,845
Yvonne,
836
00:37:07,869 --> 00:37:11,749
the woman you stayed with
for three weeks, has agreed
837
00:37:11,773 --> 00:37:14,299
to let you live with her and
her family until you're 18.
838
00:37:14,670 --> 00:37:16,848
It's what we call "probation."
839
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,024
It's kind of like a test
840
00:37:20,048 --> 00:37:22,515
to see if you can
follow the rules, and...
841
00:37:22,918 --> 00:37:24,996
"you don't hae any problems.
842
00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:27,331
And the A.D.A. and I would also like you
843
00:37:27,355 --> 00:37:30,601
to see Dr. Statton once a week.
844
00:37:30,625 --> 00:37:32,403
You remember her from the hospital?
845
00:37:32,427 --> 00:37:33,705
She introduced us?
846
00:37:33,729 --> 00:37:35,173
She's a good doctor.
847
00:37:35,570 --> 00:37:37,575
A doctor for your feelings.
848
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:39,365
Someone for you to talk to.
849
00:37:41,284 --> 00:37:42,513
Okay.
850
00:37:42,537 --> 00:37:43,828
That's it?
851
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,616
It's a pretty terrific deal.
852
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,851
Nice work.
853
00:37:46,875 --> 00:37:48,917
I didn't do it. Lucas did.
854
00:37:50,044 --> 00:37:52,255
He got on the stand and told the truth.
855
00:37:53,171 --> 00:37:54,849
But I can't go home?
856
00:37:56,424 --> 00:37:57,918
Not to your old home, no.
857
00:37:59,821 --> 00:38:01,799
It was never really yours.
858
00:38:01,823 --> 00:38:05,236
Your father was a squatter.
859
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:07,105
A person who lives someplace,
860
00:38:07,129 --> 00:38:09,187
but doesn't really own it.
861
00:38:09,584 --> 00:38:11,261
That's why he was so protective of it.
862
00:38:11,286 --> 00:38:13,066
The guns, the alarms.
863
00:38:14,148 --> 00:38:16,236
He knew he wasn't supposed to be there.
864
00:38:17,205 --> 00:38:18,539
I'm sorry.
865
00:38:22,491 --> 00:38:24,002
The judge agreed.
866
00:38:28,483 --> 00:38:30,762
Does this mean I can go to school now?
867
00:38:31,125 --> 00:38:32,830
I'm sure we can figure something out.
868
00:38:33,544 --> 00:38:34,832
Learn to read?
869
00:38:35,296 --> 00:38:37,935
Oh, I'm sure
whatever school you end up at,
870
00:38:37,959 --> 00:38:39,884
they'd love to help you with that.
871
00:38:40,328 --> 00:38:43,541
Hey, you ever been to a restaurant?
872
00:38:43,565 --> 00:38:44,897
What's that?
873
00:38:44,921 --> 00:38:48,913
Well, you ever been to a celebration?
874
00:38:48,937 --> 00:38:50,258
I-I don't know.
875
00:38:50,282 --> 00:38:51,980
What does one look like?
876
00:38:52,494 --> 00:38:54,905
Oh, you've got your whole life
ahead of you.
877
00:38:54,930 --> 00:38:56,865
So much great stuff.
878
00:39:01,055 --> 00:39:02,989
Ask me about work today.
879
00:39:05,593 --> 00:39:06,953
Okay.
880
00:39:08,121 --> 00:39:09,667
How was work today?
881
00:39:09,691 --> 00:39:11,569
We've been working on this case.
882
00:39:11,593 --> 00:39:13,905
This kid... he's, like, 16.
883
00:39:13,929 --> 00:39:16,337
Completely lost the parent lottery.
884
00:39:16,832 --> 00:39:18,810
Up on murder charges.
885
00:39:18,834 --> 00:39:20,378
Mother's a junkie.
886
00:39:20,675 --> 00:39:22,413
Father was a delusional paranoid
887
00:39:22,437 --> 00:39:24,138
who thought
the world was coming to an end.
888
00:39:25,596 --> 00:39:26,941
And your point?
889
00:39:28,343 --> 00:39:29,934
It scares me.
890
00:39:31,477 --> 00:39:32,657
His parents
891
00:39:32,681 --> 00:39:34,292
must have been in love once upon a time,
892
00:39:34,316 --> 00:39:35,857
or at the very least, in lust.
893
00:39:37,172 --> 00:39:40,651
This kid was... born a baby.
894
00:39:41,187 --> 00:39:44,223
A cute, beautiful baby.
895
00:39:45,616 --> 00:39:47,805
How did it all go so wrong?
896
00:39:48,911 --> 00:39:50,208
If God is so smart,
897
00:39:50,232 --> 00:39:53,878
why does he or she let people
like that have children,
898
00:39:53,902 --> 00:39:55,880
let alone be attracted to each other?
899
00:39:55,904 --> 00:39:59,483
You are so much smarter
than that question suggests.
900
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,508
Maybe I'm not.
901
00:40:03,426 --> 00:40:06,169
Maybe I'm not really any of
the things I like to think I am.
902
00:40:06,193 --> 00:40:07,555
I mean...
903
00:40:09,098 --> 00:40:10,751
look at my parents.
904
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:13,811
Look at what happened to me.
905
00:40:16,858 --> 00:40:21,194
So this is how we're gonna
make this momentous decision.
906
00:40:22,063 --> 00:40:25,666
In the middle of the night, half asleep.
907
00:40:27,369 --> 00:40:29,303
I don't know.
908
00:40:30,372 --> 00:40:32,306
Do you have an opinion?
909
00:40:34,001 --> 00:40:35,935
Actually, I do.
910
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:42,399
I'm as frightened as
you are... of failing.
911
00:40:43,216 --> 00:40:46,831
I'm... terrified
912
00:40:46,855 --> 00:40:50,024
at the prospect of letting
another human being down.
913
00:40:51,974 --> 00:40:54,372
But there's also a part of me
that thinks it would be scary
914
00:40:54,396 --> 00:40:56,730
and dangerous if I
didn't have those fears.
915
00:40:59,534 --> 00:41:01,150
So what are you saying?
916
00:41:03,738 --> 00:41:05,613
I'm saying...
917
00:41:07,461 --> 00:41:10,663
your parents robbed you of so much.
918
00:41:11,746 --> 00:41:13,981
Don't let them rob you of this.
919
00:41:15,489 --> 00:41:17,083
This choice.
920
00:41:18,753 --> 00:41:21,965
If you don't want to
have a baby, let's not.
921
00:41:22,389 --> 00:41:25,692
But if you're afraid of having a
baby because of your parents...
922
00:41:28,063 --> 00:41:29,974
...then I'm gonna
force you to have a baby
923
00:41:29,998 --> 00:41:31,309
just to prove you wrong.
924
00:41:33,059 --> 00:41:34,892
You and what army?
925
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:37,604
Mm. Come here.
926
00:41:39,674 --> 00:41:41,350
I want to start right now.
927
00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:43,754
You understand
this is not how this works.
928
00:41:43,778 --> 00:41:46,390
We go to an office.
929
00:41:46,414 --> 00:41:47,925
We don't do it like this?
930
00:41:47,949 --> 00:41:49,327
Well, they show you porn.
931
00:41:49,351 --> 00:41:51,659
Porn? Really?
932
00:41:52,387 --> 00:41:53,828
Wow.
933
00:41:54,489 --> 00:41:56,634
The things we do for our kids.
67325
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