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The Venom - $5 million GTD Poker Tourney
Download AmericasCardroom.com
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Get a couple
more shots in.
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00:00:34,417 --> 00:00:35,875
Okay.
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00:00:35,959 --> 00:00:38,291
You know what I want you
to do? Be really brave.
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00:00:38,375 --> 00:00:40,000
I want you to jump up
so you...
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Jump as high as you can, so you
and Mike are the same height.
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On the count
of three. Okay?
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One, two, jump!
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Cool! All right.
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I blinked, though,
'cause he threw his arms.
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I think when I was with him,
he was happy.
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Michael, you don't understand that.
- Yeah!
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Kids and animals,
they always try to do that.
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He was at the peak
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of his creativity,
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and he was at the peak
of his success.
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And everybody wanted to meet
Michael or be with Michael.
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He was already
larger than life.
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And then he likes you.
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He was one of the kindest,
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most gentle, loving,
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caring people I knew.
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He helped me... tremendously.
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He helped me with my career.
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He helped me
with my creativity,
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with all of those
sorts of things.
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And he also
sexually abused me.
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For seven years.
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Want to turn him on?
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He just wants to eat it. Oh!
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I'm Wade Robson.
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So, I was born
in Brisbane, Australia,
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and I am the third
of three kids.
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My dad, he worked
in construction for a while,
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and then he got into,
like, the fruit business.
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So, when I was young,
he had a couple of fruit shops.
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And my mother
used to work with him,
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with those businesses.
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Hi, I'm Joy Robson,
mother of Wade Robson.
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Well, we were a middle-class
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Australian family.
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We lived on three acres.
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We had horses and angora goats,
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and a dog named Sally.
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Where's it supposed
to be going?
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In here!
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Shane was quite a bit older.
He's nine and a half years
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older than Wade, and he was...
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already well into elementary
school when Wade was born.
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It was just a, like a,
I think, a three-bedroom,
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like, single-story house.
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We had a pool.
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There was always, like,
always family over,
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and I had parties there
and pool parties.
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Pretty good memories
from that place.
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Chantal was very close with him.
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Being three years apart,
they played together a lot.
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Wade was always a...
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a very sensitive boy.
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He wasn't really a guy's guy.
He wasn't into, like...
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00:04:00,458 --> 00:04:03,291
You know, he played basketball
for fun as a little kid,
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00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:05,542
but if he had a choice
of doing anything,
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he was gonna read a book
or listen to music
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or dance, you know,
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versus going outside to play
football with his friends.
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He was the youngest in the area,
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so he really had
nobody to play with.
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So he and I,
we were very close.
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We spent a lot
of time together.
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One, two, three! Go!
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I remember one day coming home
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with the video of
The Making of Thriller.
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Someone had told me that it
would be a collector's item.
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I really wasn't a fan of his,
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but I did like
some of his music.
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Once I saw that tape,
you know,
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everything changed for me.
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The music,
I couldn't help but move to it.
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Kind of set me on fire.
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You know, just made
everything tingle,
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and it was so exciting.
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I remember just
watching the tape
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over and over again.
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Pausing, rewinding.
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I would just try over
and over and over again
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to really perfect
the complexities
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of Michael's movement.
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'Cause this is thriller
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Thriller night
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And no one's gonna save you
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From the beast
about to strike
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I slowly but surely started,
you know, plastering
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my walls with images of Michael,
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and it literally became
like the wallpaper.
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So...
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00:05:46,083 --> 00:05:52,208
going to sleep, waking up in
Michael Jackson land.
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Jackson's world tour
coincides with the release
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00:06:00,625 --> 00:06:03,583
of his latest album,
entitled Bad.
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00:06:03,667 --> 00:06:05,000
Sales are good.
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A half-million copies were sold
the day it went on the market.
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Newsman 2:
Not since Thriller five years ago
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has the record industry been
so focused on a single album.
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He would've just turned five,
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and people kept telling me,
you know, he's really good.
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You should, you should do
something with him.
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That week, a friend of mine
came to me and said,
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"You know Michael Jackson's
here on the Bad tour."
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I said, yes, actually,
I thought about buying tickets.
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But I thought, he's so young,
I don't think I...
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She said,
"You should go." She said,
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"There's a dance competition.
You should enter him.
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First prize is to meet
Michael Jackson."
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The competition was only like
a week before the concert.
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And he went into the heat,
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and they were held
in the Target store.
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He had his little hat on,
his little Bad outfit.
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My hairdresser
had made it for him.
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I was actually too young.
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It was, like,
seven or eight, and up,
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and I was five at the time.
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So, they said, "Well,
you know, he can't compete
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"because of his age, but, um,
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but we'll let him perform
as, like, a special guest."
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It's one of those little things that
he got on stage and everything changed.
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He just wasn't that shy,
little boy, and he had got on stage
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and brought the place down.
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Everybody was
screaming for him.
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And at the end of it,
the store manager was the judge,
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and he said, "Well,
I wanna get out of here alive,
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so I'm going to declare
Wade Robson the winner."
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Michael Jackson's people
were there to interview
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and asked him,
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if he could speak to Michael,
what would he say.
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I'm gonna ask him if he might
come over to dinner.
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Coming over for dinner.
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Why would you want him
to come over for dinner?
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I want him to...
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I want him to show
me how he dances.
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Oh, well,
that's a big deal.
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You're gonna see
the show, you know that?
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You gonna be able to see
him dance then?
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- Mm-hmm.
- You think that's gonna be nice?
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Yeah? Why is that
gonna be so nice?
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- Because I get to see him.
- Yeah.
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You know,
this complete impossibility,
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this being from another world...
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Michael, and supposedly
it was gonna happen,
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and we were actually
gonna meet now.
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I was just excited
beyond measure.
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I remember getting this
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glow that sort of
started in my heart
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and went to all my extremities.
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It was an amazing feeling.
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When something magical
was going to happen,
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I would get that feeling.
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I'm James Safechuck.
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I grew up in a little town
called Simi Valley.
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I was pretty happy
and pretty outgoing.
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Kind of a performer, I guess.
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My father worked
at a rubbish company.
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So, we had a family
rubbish company
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that my grandfather started.
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My mom, she had
a hair styling business,
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and, um, I remember being
in the beauty salon as a kid.
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I'd hang out there
while she was working
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and just sweep the floors.
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My name is Stephanie Safechuck.
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00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:03,917
I'm Jam...
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I'm Jimmy's mother.
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00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:09,750
When I married Jimmy's father,
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he had two children,
it came with the marriage.
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At the time, my husband
had had a vasectomy,
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and I didn't think
I could have any children.
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00:10:21,083 --> 00:10:23,792
About three, four years
into the marriage,
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I really wanted a baby.
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So, my husband had
it reversed for me,
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which back then,
they guaranteed nothing.
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I was so fortunate
to have a baby.
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I just remember having him
and being overwhelmed,
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just crying over his crib,
that he'll always be all right.
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He's my love.
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I have an older brother and older sister.
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They are much older.
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They left home early also, so...
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I was alone.
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It was actually a friend of ours,
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her daughter was
in commercials,
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and ran into
my husband and Jimmy
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in the grocery store and said,
190
00:11:15,667 --> 00:11:17,208
"You ought to get
him in commercials.
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00:11:17,291 --> 00:11:20,625
He is so adorable,"
and gave my husband
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the agent's card.
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00:11:23,083 --> 00:11:24,333
So, I called the agent,
194
00:11:24,417 --> 00:11:26,625
and when she met him, she said,
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00:11:26,709 --> 00:11:29,625
"He's money in the bank.
I'll take him."
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So, he did very well right away.
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00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:37,417
Michael?
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00:11:39,583 --> 00:11:41,959
Mr. Jackson?
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00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,542
I met Michael on the set
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of the Pepsi commercial.
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I don't remember being
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a huge fan of his at the time.
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00:11:55,583 --> 00:11:57,959
I was probably more into, like,
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Voltron and Transformers.
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00:12:02,583 --> 00:12:06,208
This kid wanders
around backstage
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00:12:06,291 --> 00:12:09,000
and he discovers
the dressing room,
207
00:12:09,083 --> 00:12:13,208
and he goes in there and he
sees the jackets and the hats
208
00:12:13,291 --> 00:12:16,792
and the glasses and all that,
and I'm trying it on.
209
00:12:17,959 --> 00:12:21,041
And then,
Michael walks in and...
210
00:12:21,125 --> 00:12:22,625
and he says...
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00:12:24,291 --> 00:12:26,959
Looking for me?
212
00:12:27,959 --> 00:12:29,250
They were trying to get
213
00:12:29,333 --> 00:12:31,792
my reaction on camera
the first time I saw him.
214
00:12:31,875 --> 00:12:35,333
So, first time I see him is
actually the shot
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00:12:35,417 --> 00:12:36,959
that they use in the commercial.
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00:12:40,625 --> 00:12:44,959
He invited me
into his, um, trailer.
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00:12:47,041 --> 00:12:48,750
This was exciting for Jimmy,
218
00:12:48,834 --> 00:12:52,125
and I didn't want
to be in his way.
219
00:12:52,208 --> 00:12:54,667
I wanted Jimmy to have fun
and have a good day,
220
00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:57,083
so I let Jimmy go
in his trailer,
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00:12:57,166 --> 00:12:59,917
Michael's trailer,
with Michael's hairstylist
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00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,834
and makeup artist, Karen.
223
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,959
And I stayed outside.
What she said to me was,
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00:13:06,041 --> 00:13:09,458
"He's like a nine-year-old
little boy."
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00:13:09,542 --> 00:13:11,166
So, that made me
feel comfortable.
226
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:16,959
How do you explain Michael Jackson?
227
00:13:17,041 --> 00:13:19,625
He's larger than life.
228
00:13:19,709 --> 00:13:22,625
There's no stars like that now,
229
00:13:22,709 --> 00:13:26,041
that kind of megastar.
230
00:13:26,125 --> 00:13:30,041
And everybody wanted to meet
Michael or be with Michael.
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00:13:31,166 --> 00:13:33,834
He was quiet,
and he laughed a lot at me,
232
00:13:33,917 --> 00:13:35,709
and he was giggly.
233
00:13:35,792 --> 00:13:39,208
The stand-in, we became kind of buddies,
and I looked at him and I said,
234
00:13:39,291 --> 00:13:42,250
"Oh, we're the luckiest
boys in the world."
235
00:13:56,834 --> 00:14:00,792
He was performing two nights in Brisbane.
236
00:14:02,959 --> 00:14:07,166
We went to the first night
of the concert just to watch,
237
00:14:07,250 --> 00:14:08,959
and that was the first time
238
00:14:09,041 --> 00:14:13,041
I'd seen him perform live.
239
00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:22,166
I remember my mind
just being blown.
240
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:26,834
Experiencing his
energy magnified...
241
00:14:26,917 --> 00:14:29,041
through all those
thousands of people,
242
00:14:29,125 --> 00:14:32,250
and through all those speakers,
you know, and that energy
243
00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:35,542
just kind of shaking
my whole body.
244
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:40,792
We went to the concert the Friday night,
245
00:14:40,875 --> 00:14:43,375
and we had a meet
and greet with Michael.
246
00:14:51,917 --> 00:14:54,000
Here he was now...
247
00:14:55,917 --> 00:14:58,250
as, you know,
248
00:14:58,333 --> 00:15:01,959
a seemingly real human being.
249
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,125
He kept commenting
on my Bad outfit,
250
00:15:07,208 --> 00:15:09,041
how great he thought it was.
251
00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:12,917
And Michael said,
"Were you at the concert tonight?"
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00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,458
And we said yes. He said, "I wish I'd known.
I would've put him on stage with me."
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00:15:17,542 --> 00:15:19,250
The stage mother
in me kicked in.
254
00:15:19,333 --> 00:15:21,250
I said, "We'll be
there tomorrow night,"
255
00:15:21,333 --> 00:15:24,834
'cause they had given us
tickets as well as the winner.
256
00:15:24,917 --> 00:15:26,917
So, he said,
"I'll see what I can do."
257
00:15:29,834 --> 00:15:32,375
Wade won a dancing competition
this week on Thursday night
258
00:15:32,458 --> 00:15:34,417
at Indooroopilly.
He won the dancing competition.
259
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:36,917
These are some of
the photos of him in action.
260
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,417
The next day, I was on...
261
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:42,750
a TV show,
like a morning TV show.
262
00:15:42,834 --> 00:15:44,750
Wade, come on over,
very quickly,
263
00:15:44,834 --> 00:15:46,208
because we're gonna
tell everyone.
264
00:15:46,291 --> 00:15:48,834
This is a secret, okay?
This is a bit of a secret.
265
00:15:48,917 --> 00:15:51,583
Now tonight,
what's gonna happen tonight?
266
00:15:51,667 --> 00:15:52,917
Um...
267
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,083
When I saw him,
Michael Jackson
268
00:15:55,166 --> 00:15:58,291
told me to go on stage
with him and dance.
269
00:15:58,375 --> 00:16:00,625
Well, best of luck.
I hope you do dance with him tonight.
270
00:16:00,709 --> 00:16:02,166
So, if you're going to
Michael Jackson tonight,
271
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:04,083
- keep an eye out for Wade, okay?
- Yeah.
272
00:16:15,291 --> 00:16:16,625
Music is still blaring,
273
00:16:16,709 --> 00:16:19,041
and all the lights are going,
this intensity.
274
00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:21,583
It was a wild sensation.
275
00:16:22,959 --> 00:16:25,417
Then all of a sudden,
this huge black man
276
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,458
came out of nowhere
with a big top hat,
277
00:16:27,542 --> 00:16:31,458
and took Wade
out of Dennis's arms,
278
00:16:31,542 --> 00:16:34,667
and told us to wait there,
and took him backstage.
279
00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:38,000
You know, being...
The curtains being pulled back,
280
00:16:38,083 --> 00:16:42,542
right, of kind of just the whole
world behind the scenes... his world.
281
00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:48,792
Michael came up to me
282
00:16:48,875 --> 00:16:51,375
and grabbed my hand,
283
00:16:51,458 --> 00:16:53,834
and just sort of gave
me a signal like,
284
00:16:53,917 --> 00:16:57,166
you know, come on,
like, let's do it.
285
00:16:57,250 --> 00:17:01,542
I kind of look out
at this sea of people,
286
00:17:01,625 --> 00:17:04,166
and then something clicked.
287
00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:07,041
And I grabbed my hat,
you know...
288
00:17:07,125 --> 00:17:09,542
... and threw it off,
289
00:17:09,625 --> 00:17:12,208
and just started going,
started dancing.
290
00:17:14,041 --> 00:17:16,166
Like, I was him, almost,
291
00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:17,667
for a moment.
I mean, you know,
292
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:20,625
the center of his stage
with his audience.
293
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:24,125
Be bad!
294
00:17:24,208 --> 00:17:27,458
Yeah! Ow! I'm bad!
295
00:17:27,542 --> 00:17:30,250
Really, really bad!
296
00:17:30,333 --> 00:17:32,959
Bad, bad,
really, really bad
297
00:17:33,041 --> 00:17:35,208
You got all these other kids,
298
00:17:35,291 --> 00:17:37,500
and Stevie Wonder
was on stage as well.
299
00:17:37,583 --> 00:17:40,375
He was singing with Michael.
300
00:17:40,458 --> 00:17:42,458
Really, really bad
301
00:17:42,542 --> 00:17:45,917
Woo! I'm bad! You know!
302
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,709
We love you!
303
00:17:47,792 --> 00:17:50,291
And then,
it was time for Michael to leave.
304
00:17:50,375 --> 00:17:52,667
It was the end of the concert,
so he called the kids
305
00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:55,750
to follow him off stage.
306
00:17:55,834 --> 00:17:57,709
But Wade was
so into what he was doing,
307
00:17:57,792 --> 00:18:00,542
he didn't see that,
and he's still dancing.
308
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:02,333
So, Michael's
sort of walked away
309
00:18:02,417 --> 00:18:03,834
and realized
Wade wasn't coming,
310
00:18:03,917 --> 00:18:06,166
and he turned back
and he laughed.
311
00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:09,500
Michael just clapped
and walked off,
312
00:18:09,583 --> 00:18:12,208
and Wade suddenly realized
everybody was leaving,
313
00:18:12,291 --> 00:18:15,500
so he followed them out.
It was very cute.
314
00:18:15,583 --> 00:18:19,291
Bad, bad,
really, really bad
315
00:18:20,083 --> 00:18:21,583
Bad, bad
316
00:18:21,667 --> 00:18:25,834
Each moment of that actual
kind of eye connection...
317
00:18:25,917 --> 00:18:28,125
was, uh...
318
00:18:28,208 --> 00:18:30,917
like a bit of a shock
to the system.
319
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,250
That performance,
that meet and greet,
320
00:18:34,333 --> 00:18:37,000
were such dream-like...
321
00:18:37,083 --> 00:18:40,166
experiences, and kind of, um,
322
00:18:43,542 --> 00:18:45,834
sensory overload,
323
00:18:45,917 --> 00:18:47,583
an emotional overload.
324
00:18:51,125 --> 00:18:53,041
Michael Jackson's bad!
325
00:18:54,542 --> 00:18:57,792
I remember them coming
home after the concert,
326
00:18:57,875 --> 00:19:01,125
and Dad come in my bedroom,
and he was all excited
327
00:19:01,208 --> 00:19:03,375
'cause Wade had danced
with Michael Jackson,
328
00:19:03,458 --> 00:19:06,709
and I remember Dad, kind of,
getting teary-eyed telling us...
329
00:19:06,792 --> 00:19:08,583
telling the story
about it, you know,
330
00:19:08,667 --> 00:19:10,417
dancing with Michael Jackson.
331
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:19,000
The next morning,
I wanted to bring in a thank-you letter
332
00:19:19,083 --> 00:19:21,000
for Michael 'cause
this was his last concert.
333
00:19:21,083 --> 00:19:22,917
He was leaving Australia.
334
00:19:25,583 --> 00:19:28,959
There were a lot of fans around,
and they all recognized Wade.
335
00:19:29,041 --> 00:19:30,709
So, he was a little celebrity.
336
00:19:30,792 --> 00:19:34,542
They were all taking photos
with him and talking to him.
337
00:19:34,625 --> 00:19:36,917
Michael had heard
that we were in the lobby,
338
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,333
and he wanted us
to come up to his room.
339
00:19:39,417 --> 00:19:43,000
And I can remember Wade's face
just lighting up.
340
00:19:43,083 --> 00:19:45,000
"I'm gonna meet
a real superstar."
341
00:19:45,083 --> 00:19:46,625
He was so excited.
342
00:19:46,709 --> 00:19:51,000
I mean, this was...
Who gets to meet their hero, their superhero?
343
00:19:51,083 --> 00:19:54,417
This is this little boy
getting to do it twice now.
344
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,125
We end up spending
about two hours with him
345
00:19:57,208 --> 00:19:58,792
in his hotel suite.
346
00:20:00,250 --> 00:20:02,709
He was in some sort
of editing process
347
00:20:02,792 --> 00:20:05,875
for his Moonwalker film.
348
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:09,875
It's like, there he was
on the TV screen,
349
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,375
as I was used to seeing him,
350
00:20:12,458 --> 00:20:14,667
and then there he was,
351
00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:16,959
sitting right next
to me on the bed.
352
00:20:17,041 --> 00:20:19,625
Michael's hand was
rubbing up and down
353
00:20:19,709 --> 00:20:23,417
on the sheets right beside my
elbow as he was talking to us.
354
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:25,375
And I can remember thinking,
355
00:20:25,458 --> 00:20:29,166
"Oh my God. I'm on a bed
with Michael Jackson."
356
00:20:29,250 --> 00:20:32,917
I can remember thinking that no
one's ever gonna believe this.
357
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,458
It was pretty overwhelming.
358
00:20:34,542 --> 00:20:37,041
We all had
an overwhelming weekend,
359
00:20:37,125 --> 00:20:38,500
that is for sure.
360
00:20:41,417 --> 00:20:43,375
This little Australian boy,
361
00:20:43,458 --> 00:20:46,041
who had had
this other-worldly,
362
00:20:46,125 --> 00:20:48,709
impossible experience
363
00:20:48,792 --> 00:20:51,041
of having this meeting with
364
00:20:51,125 --> 00:20:53,875
my idol and my mentor
and my god.
365
00:20:53,959 --> 00:20:55,709
Like I'd been...
366
00:20:55,792 --> 00:20:59,208
anointed, you know,
in some kind of way.
367
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,417
One day,
the phone rang, I picked it up.
368
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:22,041
"Hi, this is Michael.
369
00:21:22,125 --> 00:21:25,291
"I'm calling from
Australia. I was...
370
00:21:25,375 --> 00:21:27,500
I saw Jimmy's commercial."
371
00:21:27,583 --> 00:21:29,417
I thought, how touching.
372
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:31,500
He doesn't think
it's his commercial.
373
00:21:31,583 --> 00:21:33,291
He thinks it's Jimmy's.
374
00:21:33,375 --> 00:21:36,000
So, I put Jimmy
on the phone,
375
00:21:36,083 --> 00:21:39,792
and I could hear Jimmy say,
376
00:21:39,875 --> 00:21:42,709
"People tell me at school
that you're weird."
377
00:21:42,792 --> 00:21:45,959
Michael said, "Don't listen
to what anybody says.
378
00:21:46,041 --> 00:21:48,959
You know me,
You know I'm not weird,"
379
00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:52,041
and that started
the relationship.
380
00:21:52,125 --> 00:21:54,291
So, Michael's still
in Australia, and asked
381
00:21:54,375 --> 00:21:58,125
if he could send a crew
to our house to film Jimmy.
382
00:21:58,208 --> 00:22:00,834
So, a crew came.
383
00:22:00,917 --> 00:22:03,709
Jimmy didn't have
any posters of Michael,
384
00:22:03,792 --> 00:22:06,458
so they put up
posters of Michael
385
00:22:06,542 --> 00:22:09,792
all through Jimmy's bedroom,
so that when they filmed it,
386
00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:12,291
you know,
it was more appealing.
387
00:22:12,375 --> 00:22:15,959
It was exciting for all us,
for the whole family.
388
00:22:16,041 --> 00:22:18,375
And I was thrilled!
389
00:22:18,458 --> 00:22:20,542
Like, wow!
390
00:22:20,625 --> 00:22:23,083
Because it's, um...
391
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:25,750
It's like...
392
00:22:25,834 --> 00:22:28,333
It's hard to believe
that I can see Michael Jackson
393
00:22:28,417 --> 00:22:31,709
when people just dream
about him.
394
00:22:32,667 --> 00:22:35,125
And that stuff,
it's really neat.
395
00:22:35,208 --> 00:22:38,041
I sat on the bed and put
all this memorabilia there,
396
00:22:38,125 --> 00:22:40,083
and they just interviewed me,
397
00:22:40,166 --> 00:22:43,875
and then I did a little dance
performance and they filmed that.
398
00:22:43,959 --> 00:22:45,667
You've been hit by
399
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:48,875
You've been hit
by a smooth criminal
400
00:22:52,542 --> 00:22:53,583
Ow!
401
00:22:55,083 --> 00:22:57,709
Now, that I look...
Now that I look back on it,
402
00:22:57,792 --> 00:23:02,041
it's almost like
an audition for him
403
00:23:02,125 --> 00:23:04,542
when he sends
his film crew out.
404
00:23:04,625 --> 00:23:06,542
A crescendo, Annie
405
00:23:06,625 --> 00:23:08,083
He came into your apartment
406
00:23:08,166 --> 00:23:10,583
Left the blood stains
on the carpet
407
00:23:10,667 --> 00:23:13,583
And then you ran
into the bedroom
408
00:23:13,667 --> 00:23:15,542
He didn't explain it.
409
00:23:15,625 --> 00:23:18,208
I just figured he's far away.
410
00:23:18,291 --> 00:23:21,375
This is part of how
he can be with people,
411
00:23:21,458 --> 00:23:25,208
and he made it clear
that he was very lonely.
412
00:23:25,291 --> 00:23:27,458
He didn't have any friends.
413
00:23:27,542 --> 00:23:29,959
And then, his...
414
00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:34,375
secretary or somebody
called and...
415
00:23:34,458 --> 00:23:36,750
asked if we would
416
00:23:36,834 --> 00:23:39,917
like to go to dinner
at the Hayvenhurst house.
417
00:23:54,291 --> 00:23:57,417
Going to Hayvenhurst,
it felt...
418
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,792
it felt magical, I guess.
419
00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:01,792
The house is beautiful.
420
00:24:01,875 --> 00:24:04,583
It had the recording studio,
so we went in there,
421
00:24:04,667 --> 00:24:08,458
and I think we saw
his brothers, said hi.
422
00:24:09,208 --> 00:24:12,458
We had dinner and watched
423
00:24:12,542 --> 00:24:14,709
Batteries Not Included.
424
00:24:14,792 --> 00:24:17,208
He gets movies
before they come out,
425
00:24:17,291 --> 00:24:19,583
so he had a little
movie theater there.
426
00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:25,959
I remember seeing his dance
floor for the first time.
427
00:24:26,041 --> 00:24:29,959
Kind of a magical thing to see
Michael at the dance floor,
428
00:24:30,041 --> 00:24:32,083
like, his private dance floor.
429
00:24:34,709 --> 00:24:36,625
We were so excited.
430
00:24:36,709 --> 00:24:39,000
This was big for us.
431
00:24:39,083 --> 00:24:41,083
Nobody can befriend him.
432
00:24:41,166 --> 00:24:42,834
He has to befriend people.
433
00:24:42,917 --> 00:24:44,208
He's unapproachable.
434
00:24:44,291 --> 00:24:48,458
So, for him to wanna be
our friend
435
00:24:48,542 --> 00:24:50,500
was, "Oh my God!
436
00:24:50,583 --> 00:24:53,458
How lucky are we?"
437
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:59,667
Mom and Dad,
I think they were in awe.
438
00:24:59,750 --> 00:25:01,834
And you're just starstruck.
439
00:25:01,917 --> 00:25:04,083
You know, it's, um...
440
00:25:06,375 --> 00:25:08,625
It's like...
441
00:25:09,542 --> 00:25:12,166
And then at the same time,
442
00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:15,458
he's becoming a real person.
443
00:25:15,542 --> 00:25:19,250
He's not this sort of,
like, two-dimensional icon.
444
00:25:19,959 --> 00:25:22,458
He gives you focused attention,
445
00:25:22,542 --> 00:25:24,208
and I think at that age,
446
00:25:24,291 --> 00:25:27,125
you want to be important,
447
00:25:27,208 --> 00:25:31,709
and you want to be
noticed and loved.
448
00:25:31,792 --> 00:25:34,917
So, it's a powerful, um,
449
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,834
attraction.
450
00:25:41,125 --> 00:25:43,125
We went into the closet
and we're looking at his stuff
451
00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:46,917
and he told me I can
pick out a jacket.
452
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,667
I could have that,
that would be mine.
453
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:52,792
I picked the Thriller jacket.
454
00:25:52,875 --> 00:25:56,291
Of course. Go big.
455
00:25:56,375 --> 00:26:01,083
And I took it home.
I wore it to the grocery store.
456
00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:05,250
As I was leaving, he gave me
an envelope full of cash,
457
00:26:05,333 --> 00:26:07,041
several hundred dollars.
458
00:26:07,125 --> 00:26:10,542
Which, at the time, was a lot.
It's still a lot.
459
00:26:16,125 --> 00:26:20,792
He had our phone number,
and he called the next day.
460
00:26:20,875 --> 00:26:23,417
And he was gonna be by himself.
461
00:26:24,083 --> 00:26:28,417
And I couldn't believe that,
how can this man be by himself?
462
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:32,291
And so, my parents offered
to go pick him up.
463
00:26:36,917 --> 00:26:40,291
We got in the car, and we drove
to the Hayvenhurst house.
464
00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:42,834
And there's always,
like, reporters and fans,
465
00:26:42,917 --> 00:26:45,500
so we had to sneak him out.
466
00:26:45,583 --> 00:26:48,417
Michael was ducked
with me in the back.
467
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,625
Some people gave chase
and we had to,
468
00:26:50,709 --> 00:26:52,583
like, lose them and...
469
00:26:52,667 --> 00:26:55,959
So, I think my father
was excited to, like,
470
00:26:56,041 --> 00:26:58,667
"lose the reporters."
471
00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:01,792
He had to drive fast
or something.
472
00:27:04,083 --> 00:27:05,583
And he came to our house,
473
00:27:05,667 --> 00:27:08,041
and went through
Jimmy's closets,
474
00:27:08,125 --> 00:27:09,458
went through everything,
475
00:27:09,542 --> 00:27:12,125
acted like a little boy,
giggling.
476
00:27:12,208 --> 00:27:14,542
You watch movies,
and you eat popcorn.
477
00:27:14,625 --> 00:27:16,875
He loved popcorn.
478
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,542
Michael would come
to our house a lot.
479
00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:24,250
Michael and I would take
480
00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:26,667
walks around my neighborhood.
481
00:27:27,375 --> 00:27:29,333
Just talking
482
00:27:29,417 --> 00:27:31,125
and walking and...
483
00:27:31,208 --> 00:27:34,000
It would be at night time,
of course,
484
00:27:34,083 --> 00:27:35,792
so he could sort of hide.
485
00:27:35,875 --> 00:27:37,458
As soon as somebody
noticed him,
486
00:27:37,542 --> 00:27:40,667
then the newspapers
would be there and...
487
00:27:42,667 --> 00:27:45,959
I think I went to Hayvenhurst
a few times.
488
00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:48,542
The more I would visit,
the more, sort of, alone time
489
00:27:48,625 --> 00:27:50,667
you'd get with him.
490
00:27:50,750 --> 00:27:55,166
So, I brought him some toys,
and he gave me some gifts.
491
00:27:58,750 --> 00:28:02,625
It's more like
hanging out with a friend
492
00:28:02,709 --> 00:28:04,750
that's more your age.
493
00:28:05,583 --> 00:28:08,542
So, it feels natural.
494
00:28:11,166 --> 00:28:13,667
I came to feel like
495
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:15,917
he was one of my sons
496
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,458
by how he behaved.
497
00:28:17,542 --> 00:28:19,959
I loved him.
498
00:28:20,041 --> 00:28:22,834
He was a son I started
to take care for.
499
00:28:22,917 --> 00:28:25,750
He would spend the night.
I'd wash his clothes.
500
00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:29,750
At the time,
when I was thinking about
501
00:28:29,834 --> 00:28:32,041
should we get Jimmy
in commercials,
502
00:28:32,125 --> 00:28:35,208
I prayed to the Lord that
503
00:28:35,291 --> 00:28:38,208
if this is good for Jimmy,
504
00:28:38,291 --> 00:28:41,458
open the doors for him
and let this happen.
505
00:28:41,542 --> 00:28:45,542
And if it's not,
don't let it happen.
506
00:28:45,625 --> 00:28:48,542
Well, of course,
the doors opened so quickly.
507
00:28:48,625 --> 00:28:51,083
And then, when Michael
would come to our house,
508
00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:54,542
I had told this story
to Michael about how I prayed
509
00:28:54,625 --> 00:28:56,166
about this before it happened.
510
00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:58,709
Well, Michael tells me,
511
00:28:58,792 --> 00:29:00,500
"I prayed, too.
512
00:29:00,583 --> 00:29:03,458
"I prayed that
I could have a friend.
513
00:29:03,542 --> 00:29:04,834
And then I met Jimmy."
514
00:29:04,917 --> 00:29:06,500
Well, to me,
515
00:29:06,583 --> 00:29:09,667
the two prayers came together,
516
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:13,542
and this was a friendship
that was meant to be.
517
00:29:28,583 --> 00:29:30,709
I went to Hawaii with Michael
518
00:29:30,792 --> 00:29:33,625
for the Pepsi convention.
519
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:38,041
The trip felt
like an adventure.
520
00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:40,750
Rented out an amusement
park for the night,
521
00:29:40,834 --> 00:29:43,125
and everybody went
there and played.
522
00:29:43,208 --> 00:29:44,709
We were treated
very nicely there.
523
00:29:44,792 --> 00:29:47,041
We went on a helicopter ride,
524
00:29:47,125 --> 00:29:48,500
which was nice.
525
00:29:49,834 --> 00:29:51,458
And I remember there were dolphins,
526
00:29:51,542 --> 00:29:53,542
and you could just go see them.
527
00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:56,375
I mean, we're
from a small town,
528
00:29:57,333 --> 00:30:00,291
so this is bigger than,
529
00:30:00,375 --> 00:30:04,417
I think, anybody's expectations.
530
00:30:07,917 --> 00:30:10,834
I wanted them to have fun,
and I wanted my son
531
00:30:10,917 --> 00:30:12,959
to be happy
and have a good time.
532
00:30:13,041 --> 00:30:17,542
So, I stayed my distance there
in Hawaii during the day.
533
00:30:18,917 --> 00:30:21,125
The hotel was beautiful,
of course.
534
00:30:21,208 --> 00:30:25,000
And I remember really wanting to
stay in the room with him, and...
535
00:30:25,083 --> 00:30:28,333
my mom wouldn't allow it
at the time.
536
00:30:28,417 --> 00:30:31,125
I didn't think it
was appropriate
537
00:30:31,208 --> 00:30:33,625
for my son to go
sleep with him.
538
00:30:33,709 --> 00:30:36,500
I knew he was a kind man,
and he was doing everything
539
00:30:36,583 --> 00:30:39,959
to make our trip there
as good as it could be,
540
00:30:40,041 --> 00:30:43,834
but, you know, that...
it didn't fit... you don't, um...
541
00:30:43,917 --> 00:30:46,291
It didn't feel right.
You don't...
542
00:30:46,375 --> 00:30:47,875
go sleep with,
543
00:30:47,959 --> 00:30:50,500
you know, somebody else
that you don't really know.
544
00:30:50,583 --> 00:30:52,792
Jimmy was, "Please,
Mom, please!" You know,
545
00:30:52,875 --> 00:30:55,166
'cause he loved Michael.
546
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:57,959
But, no, I wouldn't let him.
547
00:30:58,041 --> 00:30:59,959
But made sure I had
my meals with them
548
00:31:00,041 --> 00:31:02,291
and that Jimmy slept with me.
549
00:31:03,834 --> 00:31:07,834
And that's how it was
the first trip.
550
00:31:12,083 --> 00:31:15,500
I remember the plane being quite empty.
551
00:31:15,583 --> 00:31:17,917
And I did this mock
interview with him.
552
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
He said I could ask
him anything I wanted.
553
00:31:20,083 --> 00:31:23,709
We're in the air.
We're on our way home from Hawaii.
554
00:31:23,792 --> 00:31:27,375
Thousands of feet in the air
on this DC-10.
555
00:31:27,458 --> 00:31:30,333
I've had a wonderful
time with Jimmy.
556
00:31:30,417 --> 00:31:32,000
Are you taping?
557
00:31:32,083 --> 00:31:34,417
Sure.
Uh...
558
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:35,875
You can ask anything.
559
00:31:35,959 --> 00:31:38,166
I was just playing reporter.
560
00:31:39,166 --> 00:31:41,500
And he never gave interviews,
561
00:31:41,583 --> 00:31:45,041
so it was kind of like,
sure, you can interview me,
562
00:31:45,125 --> 00:31:46,583
but nobody else
got interviews,
563
00:31:46,667 --> 00:31:48,792
so it was also a big deal.
564
00:31:48,875 --> 00:31:50,500
How did you like Hawaii?
565
00:31:50,583 --> 00:31:52,542
What was your,
like, best thing?
566
00:31:52,625 --> 00:31:54,875
My best thing about Hawaii?
Yeah.
567
00:31:54,959 --> 00:31:56,333
Being with you.
568
00:31:56,417 --> 00:31:58,792
How do you feel about, um,
569
00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:01,542
performing and stuff,
do you like it?
570
00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:02,917
I love performing.
571
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,583
It is the greatest thing
in the world because, um...
572
00:32:06,667 --> 00:32:09,125
I feel at home on stage.
I could live on stage.
573
00:32:09,208 --> 00:32:11,208
I'm the most happiest
when I'm on stage,
574
00:32:11,291 --> 00:32:14,542
and when I'm with
Jimmy Safechuck.
575
00:32:14,625 --> 00:32:17,417
But the best commercial
of all the Pepsi commercials
576
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,625
is the one that you and I did.
577
00:32:19,709 --> 00:32:23,208
And I'm not just saying that,
that's the best one.
578
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:25,709
'Cause it has heart.
579
00:32:25,792 --> 00:32:28,917
Every time I see it,
it makes me smile.
580
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,667
And I hope to be you all's
friends for a long... forever,
581
00:32:32,750 --> 00:32:34,417
for a long time.
582
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:37,667
Good-bye, signing off! Bye.
583
00:32:39,125 --> 00:32:40,667
And it's...
584
00:32:42,375 --> 00:32:44,709
hard to listen to.
585
00:32:46,917 --> 00:32:48,709
You can hear, like,
586
00:32:48,792 --> 00:32:51,125
the infatuation,
587
00:32:51,208 --> 00:32:52,750
and, and...
588
00:32:53,542 --> 00:32:55,792
how much I was
attracted to him,
589
00:32:55,875 --> 00:32:57,917
and then also, his...
590
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,125
like, reeling...
591
00:33:03,208 --> 00:33:05,667
his attraction
to you, for like...
592
00:33:08,709 --> 00:33:11,125
making you feel special.
593
00:33:19,208 --> 00:33:22,375
It's Michael.
I'm calling from London.
594
00:33:22,458 --> 00:33:24,166
I'm calling because
595
00:33:24,250 --> 00:33:27,667
I love you all, and I miss
you very, very much.
596
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:30,917
I feel like you belong
to me as well.
597
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,250
Bye. I love you all. Bye.
598
00:33:36,709 --> 00:33:39,667
A lot of our
conversations were on the telephone.
599
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:44,542
My son would be on the phone,
hours with Michael, hours.
600
00:33:44,625 --> 00:33:47,000
And he talked to me.
He would call just to talk
601
00:33:47,083 --> 00:33:49,500
to me during the day, and...
602
00:33:49,583 --> 00:33:51,166
that wa... long conversations.
603
00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:53,667
So, that's how he got
to know people, I think.
604
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:55,458
Michael
You knew my voice right away?
605
00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:58,375
Jimmy Yeah, I jumped up,
and I ran to the phone.
606
00:33:58,458 --> 00:34:02,542
You knew my voice right off?
Uh-huh.
607
00:34:02,625 --> 00:34:06,458
We were talking on
the phone pretty regularly,
608
00:34:06,542 --> 00:34:09,333
and I was dancing
and taking dance seriously,
609
00:34:09,417 --> 00:34:11,250
and it was like...
610
00:34:11,333 --> 00:34:14,083
"Come join me on tour."
611
00:34:14,166 --> 00:34:15,625
And he said,
612
00:34:15,709 --> 00:34:18,208
"You can choose
wherever you wanna come,
613
00:34:18,291 --> 00:34:20,166
and stay as long
as you wanna come."
614
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,208
So, as soon as school ended,
615
00:34:24,291 --> 00:34:27,375
I joined the tour
for the summer.
616
00:34:41,458 --> 00:34:43,417
My mother went,
617
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:46,583
and my father would join
whenever he could,
618
00:34:46,667 --> 00:34:49,208
but he wasn't there
the whole time.
619
00:34:49,291 --> 00:34:50,750
He flies you first class.
620
00:34:50,834 --> 00:34:53,333
You have a limo waiting
for you at the airport.
621
00:34:53,417 --> 00:34:56,709
Amazing. You know, it's life...
622
00:34:56,792 --> 00:34:58,375
of the rich and famous.
623
00:35:02,375 --> 00:35:05,375
I came on at the end of the song "Bad."
624
00:35:05,959 --> 00:35:08,125
Really, really bad
625
00:35:08,208 --> 00:35:10,250
And they would pick kids out
626
00:35:10,333 --> 00:35:11,667
of the crowd during the show,
627
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:15,375
and then I'd lead,
like, 10 or 12 kids out.
628
00:35:21,125 --> 00:35:25,166
I'd have a Bad outfit
on that was just like his...
629
00:35:26,834 --> 00:35:29,000
and so, I would dance.
630
00:35:29,083 --> 00:35:32,542
We'd, like, side-moonwalked
and did a few moves together.
631
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:36,625
Bad, bad, really really bad
632
00:35:36,709 --> 00:35:38,000
I love you!
633
00:35:38,083 --> 00:35:39,375
Bad, bad
634
00:35:39,458 --> 00:35:41,417
Really, really bad
635
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:45,291
It's hard to explain to people
what tour is like.
636
00:35:45,375 --> 00:35:47,125
It's pretty crazy.
637
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,792
We love Michael!
We love Michael!
638
00:36:02,583 --> 00:36:04,375
The excitement
of him just walking
639
00:36:04,458 --> 00:36:07,583
from his car, from
the hotel to the car, is...
640
00:36:07,667 --> 00:36:09,417
is insane.
641
00:36:11,375 --> 00:36:16,250
People are shoving you
and snapping pictures, and...
642
00:36:16,333 --> 00:36:18,834
holding onto the door handles,
643
00:36:18,917 --> 00:36:21,458
and being dragged by the car.
644
00:36:21,542 --> 00:36:23,583
They're crying and...
645
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:26,917
It's a unique experience...
646
00:36:29,417 --> 00:36:33,166
that level of star power.
647
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:41,417
Hoo-hoo!
648
00:36:44,583 --> 00:36:46,333
I'm 10, on the tour,
649
00:36:46,417 --> 00:36:48,208
you know, having
shows every night,
650
00:36:48,291 --> 00:36:50,875
and it's a bit overwhelming.
651
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,709
I love you, Michael!
652
00:36:52,792 --> 00:36:54,542
Hoo!
653
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:13,333
There's all these
sort of amazing moments
654
00:37:13,417 --> 00:37:17,792
on tour that you don't get
in normal life.
655
00:37:24,875 --> 00:37:27,000
None of us were living a normal life
656
00:37:27,083 --> 00:37:28,834
when we traveled with Michael.
657
00:37:28,917 --> 00:37:32,041
I got to meet Sean Connery.
658
00:37:32,125 --> 00:37:33,917
That was big for me.
It was like,
659
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,375
"Oh my God, Sean Connery!"
660
00:37:36,458 --> 00:37:38,458
And then at the shows,
661
00:37:38,542 --> 00:37:41,667
there's stars come in
to meet him.
662
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:43,875
I think I met Harrison Ford
663
00:37:43,959 --> 00:37:46,583
and George Lucas and...
664
00:37:46,667 --> 00:37:48,375
Steven Spielberg and...
665
00:37:48,458 --> 00:37:51,583
And we even went to the set of
666
00:37:51,667 --> 00:37:53,250
the Indiana Jones movie.
667
00:37:53,333 --> 00:37:55,667
And Harrison Ford
took me outside,
668
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:59,709
and showed me how
to use his bullwhip.
669
00:37:59,792 --> 00:38:02,250
And then he gave
me the bullwhip.
670
00:38:05,667 --> 00:38:08,375
I was on a bus with Tina Turner.
671
00:38:08,458 --> 00:38:12,083
They bused the VIPs
back and forth to the hotel.
672
00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:14,792
And I heard her tell her
boyfriend at the time,
673
00:38:14,875 --> 00:38:16,166
I was sitting close,
674
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:19,250
"That little white
boy sure can dance."
675
00:38:19,333 --> 00:38:21,291
Well, I knew she was
talking about Jimmy!
676
00:38:21,375 --> 00:38:25,041
And that was like,
"Oh, I know, he can dance."
677
00:38:26,125 --> 00:38:27,834
But I was so proud of Jimmy.
678
00:38:27,917 --> 00:38:31,583
It was always a proud moment
to see him on stage.
679
00:38:46,959 --> 00:38:50,458
By that time,
you're already best buds.
680
00:38:50,542 --> 00:38:55,000
So, it's like,
two friends going on an adventure
681
00:38:55,083 --> 00:38:56,834
or something like that.
682
00:39:01,458 --> 00:39:03,875
You're not going off
and doing normal things
683
00:39:03,959 --> 00:39:06,917
people do when they travel.
684
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,166
So, you spend a lot of time just
in the hotel room with him.
685
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:12,917
And the hotel rooms are,
you know,
686
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,750
the president suites,
so they're quite large.
687
00:39:16,834 --> 00:39:19,500
So, there's lots of room
to play, and...
688
00:39:19,583 --> 00:39:21,583
you just grow...
689
00:39:22,583 --> 00:39:24,041
closer.
690
00:39:27,208 --> 00:39:30,583
I remember we would
fall asleep together,
691
00:39:30,667 --> 00:39:33,333
and then when I wake up,
he would be in another room.
692
00:39:33,417 --> 00:39:38,375
And I would be... hurt
that he was in another room,
693
00:39:38,458 --> 00:39:40,750
and so I'd ask him to stay.
694
00:39:42,583 --> 00:39:47,208
It seems like it was a natural...
thing that happened.
695
00:39:47,291 --> 00:39:50,000
My husband and I
had to have said,
696
00:39:50,083 --> 00:39:52,083
"Yes, you can go sleep
with Michael."
697
00:39:57,542 --> 00:40:03,291
In Paris, he introduced me
to masturbation...
698
00:40:04,959 --> 00:40:06,917
and that's how it started.
699
00:40:13,667 --> 00:40:19,583
Michael and I were in his room.
700
00:40:19,667 --> 00:40:22,083
He set it up like,
"I'm gonna show you something
701
00:40:22,166 --> 00:40:26,417
that everybody does,
and you'll really enjoy it."
702
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:29,542
So, it was like he was
teaching you something new.
703
00:40:30,709 --> 00:40:33,208
And I remember...
704
00:40:33,291 --> 00:40:34,625
my penis swelling up
705
00:40:34,709 --> 00:40:36,959
'cause I did it so much
that first time.
706
00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:41,250
I must've...
must've done it a few times.
707
00:40:41,333 --> 00:40:44,625
And so, I remember dipping
my penis in warm water.
708
00:40:44,709 --> 00:40:46,834
Michael filled
a cup up with water,
709
00:40:46,917 --> 00:40:49,625
so I could pee.
It was hard to pee.
710
00:40:49,709 --> 00:40:52,917
I don't have any unpleasant...
711
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,834
memories, other than
not being able to pee.
712
00:40:58,041 --> 00:41:01,458
It felt like you were...
713
00:41:01,542 --> 00:41:03,750
bonding, in a way.
714
00:41:05,834 --> 00:41:08,333
The tour was the start of this
715
00:41:08,417 --> 00:41:13,166
sexual, like,
couple relationship.
716
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:17,875
He was with Michael 24/7.
717
00:41:17,959 --> 00:41:20,792
I would go visit Jimmy, um,
718
00:41:20,875 --> 00:41:23,542
make sure he was okay,
but Jimmy was always,
719
00:41:23,625 --> 00:41:25,500
"You can go, Mom.
You can go, Mom."
720
00:41:25,583 --> 00:41:26,792
He didn't want me there.
721
00:41:26,875 --> 00:41:29,375
I missed him.
I really missed my son,
722
00:41:29,458 --> 00:41:31,667
uh, not being with him.
723
00:41:32,542 --> 00:41:35,959
Michael would like it if you...
724
00:41:36,041 --> 00:41:39,000
if you would bend over, and,
725
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,625
like, spread open your cheeks.
That's what he liked.
726
00:41:44,834 --> 00:41:47,083
And then he would masturbate.
727
00:41:48,417 --> 00:41:51,750
And he liked, um...
728
00:41:53,041 --> 00:41:55,750
if I rubbed his nipples.
729
00:41:57,917 --> 00:42:00,166
So, we would do stuff,
and then, in the end,
730
00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:03,125
when he wanted
to ejaculate, he would...
731
00:42:03,208 --> 00:42:05,917
he would finish himself.
732
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,917
Our room started to get further
733
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,417
and further away
from Michael's room.
734
00:42:16,083 --> 00:42:17,625
And when I asked about it,
735
00:42:17,709 --> 00:42:20,500
we weren't even on
the same floor now.
736
00:42:20,583 --> 00:42:22,166
I asked in Paris,
737
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:24,375
and I asked about that,
and they said,
738
00:42:24,458 --> 00:42:26,875
"We couldn't get you a suite
739
00:42:26,959 --> 00:42:29,583
"close to Michael.
No suites available.
740
00:42:29,667 --> 00:42:32,625
This is where we could
get you the nicest room."
741
00:42:33,125 --> 00:42:36,291
That made sense to me,
so I, "Okay."
742
00:42:36,792 --> 00:42:41,542
But in Germany, we were, like,
really far away from them.
743
00:42:41,625 --> 00:42:43,750
And same thing.
744
00:42:43,834 --> 00:42:47,291
Same thing. "We couldn't
get you a suite near them."
745
00:42:48,458 --> 00:42:50,542
He would run drills with me where,
746
00:42:50,625 --> 00:42:52,792
you'd be in the hotel room,
and he would pretend like
747
00:42:52,875 --> 00:42:56,375
somebody was coming in,
and you had to get dressed
748
00:42:56,458 --> 00:42:59,959
as fast as possible
without making noise.
749
00:43:00,959 --> 00:43:03,083
So not getting caught was a big,
750
00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:06,333
like, just kind of fundamental.
751
00:43:08,083 --> 00:43:11,625
It was very much a secret,
and...
752
00:43:11,709 --> 00:43:15,041
he would tell me that
753
00:43:15,125 --> 00:43:16,834
if anybody found out,
754
00:43:16,917 --> 00:43:20,834
his life would be over
and my life would be over.
755
00:43:20,917 --> 00:43:24,417
And that's something he tells
you over and over again.
756
00:43:44,333 --> 00:43:46,959
And French kissing.
757
00:43:47,041 --> 00:43:51,709
He... said
I introduced that to him.
758
00:43:51,792 --> 00:43:53,417
Two, jump!
759
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,875
- Cool! All right.
- I blinked, though, 'cause he threw his arms.
760
00:43:59,333 --> 00:44:02,250
And it evolved from, like,
761
00:44:02,333 --> 00:44:04,125
French kissing and then
762
00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,458
kissing different
parts of the body,
763
00:44:06,542 --> 00:44:08,667
and then, finally, like,
764
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:10,917
kissing the genitals.
765
00:44:12,041 --> 00:44:15,417
He started with, like,
"Kiss it. Can I kiss it?"
766
00:44:17,542 --> 00:44:21,250
I remember one time
I was sleeping,
767
00:44:22,667 --> 00:44:24,750
and I woke up and Michael said
768
00:44:24,834 --> 00:44:28,500
that he had performed oral sex
on me while I was sleeping.
769
00:44:28,583 --> 00:44:31,083
And I was like, oh, okay.
770
00:44:32,583 --> 00:44:35,792
I wanted to know what's
going on in the room.
771
00:44:35,875 --> 00:44:39,959
My son doesn't know this,
772
00:44:40,041 --> 00:44:42,375
but I would, you know,
773
00:44:42,458 --> 00:44:44,750
go to the door, try to listen,
774
00:44:44,834 --> 00:44:46,959
hear what conversation
was going on,
775
00:44:47,041 --> 00:44:48,834
and then I'd sneak away.
776
00:44:48,917 --> 00:44:52,667
I wasn't worried
that anything was going on.
777
00:44:52,750 --> 00:44:56,583
I guess it was more curious.
What are they doing in there?
778
00:44:56,667 --> 00:44:58,166
What were they doing?
779
00:44:58,250 --> 00:45:00,834
Playing. Reading.
Michael was reading...
780
00:45:00,917 --> 00:45:03,291
He bought him a lot of
nice, good books, you know,
781
00:45:03,375 --> 00:45:06,208
and poems.
He'd read poems to him.
782
00:45:06,291 --> 00:45:09,166
Just kid things.
They were just doing kid things.
783
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:12,291
So, I wouldn't actually,
like, ejaculate.
784
00:45:13,208 --> 00:45:15,709
It would be this...
785
00:45:16,375 --> 00:45:19,709
like, kind of lubricant
without anything in it,
786
00:45:19,792 --> 00:45:22,542
and that would sort of leak out.
787
00:45:22,625 --> 00:45:24,750
From you?
- From me, yeah.
788
00:45:25,709 --> 00:45:28,500
But Michael would ejaculate.
789
00:45:31,417 --> 00:45:35,667
He said that I was his
first sexual experience,
790
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:39,583
and he would say
that all the time.
791
00:45:39,667 --> 00:45:43,125
He's the biggest entertainer,
and he's a creative genius,
792
00:45:43,208 --> 00:45:47,458
and that creative genius
thinks that you're special.
793
00:45:48,291 --> 00:45:51,709
What's not to like, right?
794
00:46:00,417 --> 00:46:04,291
Michael would always
hold Jimmy's hand, and he said,
795
00:46:04,375 --> 00:46:07,583
"Would you to talk to Jimmy
about holding my hand?
796
00:46:07,667 --> 00:46:10,083
"People are gonna get
the wrong impression.
797
00:46:10,166 --> 00:46:12,291
You know how people think."
798
00:46:12,375 --> 00:46:14,208
Man 1:
Somebody special's in there.
799
00:46:14,291 --> 00:46:15,625
Man 2:
Michael Jackson.
800
00:46:15,709 --> 00:46:18,709
"They're gonna think
something nasty about it.
801
00:46:18,792 --> 00:46:20,250
"Nothing's going on,
802
00:46:20,333 --> 00:46:24,250
but this is gonna look
like something's going on."
803
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:28,917
Myself and Michael would scratch each other,
804
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,250
here, on the palm, so that
you were holding your hand...
805
00:46:32,333 --> 00:46:34,250
And that meant,
806
00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:37,583
like, you were thinking
of them sexually.
807
00:46:37,667 --> 00:46:39,125
Happy New Year, Mike!
808
00:46:39,208 --> 00:46:41,125
There's no thoughts of this is wrong
809
00:46:41,208 --> 00:46:43,208
or anything like that.
810
00:46:43,291 --> 00:46:47,333
It's just a very...
accepted way of
811
00:46:47,417 --> 00:46:50,125
expressing your love.
812
00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:51,959
That's what he would say.
813
00:46:57,208 --> 00:47:00,458
He was very close to us,
814
00:47:00,542 --> 00:47:02,875
seeing us every day,
staying at our home.
815
00:47:04,709 --> 00:47:08,500
We were the first guests
he had, to go to Neverland.
816
00:47:08,583 --> 00:47:10,500
I actually have the brochure
817
00:47:10,583 --> 00:47:15,709
that they used to market it,
to sell it.
818
00:47:15,792 --> 00:47:18,083
And he said,
"I'm gonna purchase this house,
819
00:47:18,166 --> 00:47:20,250
and it's gonna be yours."
820
00:47:20,333 --> 00:47:23,500
Like, "This place is for you."
821
00:47:23,583 --> 00:47:26,250
Me and Michael would be
there a lot together,
822
00:47:26,333 --> 00:47:29,083
like, for a week at a time.
823
00:47:32,333 --> 00:47:35,166
His property was massive,
824
00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:37,667
so nobody was near him.
825
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:41,125
You know, the next ranch
was quite a ways.
826
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,333
They have the most
beautiful guest rooms.
827
00:47:45,417 --> 00:47:48,750
This was the room I chose.
I loved this room.
828
00:47:48,834 --> 00:47:51,750
You could stay at any
guest room you wanted.
829
00:47:52,542 --> 00:47:56,583
And Jimmy stayed with
Michael in the big house.
830
00:47:56,667 --> 00:47:59,834
We had people cooking for us.
831
00:47:59,917 --> 00:48:01,709
He had a beautiful wine cellar.
832
00:48:01,792 --> 00:48:03,709
You know, really good
wine, champagne,
833
00:48:03,792 --> 00:48:05,417
that was just
something I enjoyed.
834
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:08,208
It was a fairy tale
every night.
835
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,709
The routine was
836
00:48:12,792 --> 00:48:15,166
we would get a blanket
and lay it down
837
00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:17,667
on the floor
and inside of the closet,
838
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:20,125
next to his main bed,
839
00:48:20,208 --> 00:48:22,208
so we could close
the doors and have,
840
00:48:22,291 --> 00:48:26,792
like, several sort of doors
people had to get through.
841
00:48:26,875 --> 00:48:29,375
It was just the hall
that leads to his room.
842
00:48:29,458 --> 00:48:31,834
So, there were
bells so you could
843
00:48:31,917 --> 00:48:33,375
have a moment of
hearing them trip,
844
00:48:33,458 --> 00:48:37,250
and at least it alarmed him
to when people are coming.
845
00:48:38,959 --> 00:48:42,750
There was, like, kissing, and...
846
00:48:42,834 --> 00:48:46,458
I think, just kind of
rubbing on each other.
847
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:49,208
And then, um...
848
00:48:52,333 --> 00:48:55,000
oral sex,
849
00:48:56,291 --> 00:48:58,083
and then...
850
00:48:58,166 --> 00:49:00,250
he would want me to suck
on his nipples,
851
00:49:00,333 --> 00:49:02,542
and then he would
finish himself.
852
00:49:04,458 --> 00:49:08,625
He also had a, like,
an Indian fort with tepees,
853
00:49:08,709 --> 00:49:13,917
and so we would lay down
sleeping bags,
854
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,917
have snacks, and then...
855
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,709
have sexual relations there.
856
00:49:20,792 --> 00:49:22,709
There was also a game room,
857
00:49:22,792 --> 00:49:24,333
and then upstairs
in the arcade,
858
00:49:24,417 --> 00:49:26,458
there was another room.
859
00:49:26,542 --> 00:49:28,125
And it had a bed in there.
860
00:49:28,208 --> 00:49:30,417
We would go into that room
861
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:32,625
and have sex there.
862
00:49:35,166 --> 00:49:37,917
There's this attic,
there's a third-floor attic.
863
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,667
It was kind of secluded,
864
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:43,542
like, you could only really get to it from...
from these steep stairs,
865
00:49:43,625 --> 00:49:47,291
so you could tell if
somebody was coming.
866
00:49:47,375 --> 00:49:50,667
So, we would go in there
and have sex.
867
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:53,542
There's toys everywhere,
868
00:49:53,625 --> 00:49:55,667
things to do.
869
00:49:56,959 --> 00:49:59,875
So, they just kind
of mix together.
870
00:50:04,250 --> 00:50:06,625
He had another house far away
871
00:50:06,709 --> 00:50:08,333
from the main house,
872
00:50:08,417 --> 00:50:10,709
and then there he had
a lot of memorabilia.
873
00:50:10,792 --> 00:50:13,792
He had his jackets from,
like, the Grammys,
874
00:50:13,875 --> 00:50:16,834
the rhinestone ones,
and his glove.
875
00:50:16,917 --> 00:50:19,041
And that was
far away from people,
876
00:50:19,125 --> 00:50:23,250
and you could see if somebody
was driving up his narrow road.
877
00:50:24,792 --> 00:50:27,750
And we would have
sex in there, too.
878
00:50:30,208 --> 00:50:35,500
The movie theater had
these two, like, private rooms.
879
00:50:35,583 --> 00:50:39,083
Um, it had big glass windows,
so you could see the theater.
880
00:50:39,166 --> 00:50:43,208
And so, we would have
sex in those rooms.
881
00:50:43,291 --> 00:50:46,291
That was a bit dangerous.
882
00:50:47,959 --> 00:50:49,667
So, there was a bit
of excitement there.
883
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:52,291
So, I didn't tell
him I was coming,
884
00:50:52,375 --> 00:50:54,125
and the door was locked.
885
00:50:54,208 --> 00:50:56,250
And so, you have to knock loud
886
00:50:56,333 --> 00:50:59,041
because, you know,
the movie's on.
887
00:50:59,125 --> 00:51:00,917
And, he made some exc...
888
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,834
He came down, unlocked it,
and did make some excuse.
889
00:51:03,917 --> 00:51:06,417
He didn't mean to lock the door.
890
00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:09,208
He didn't know the door was locked.
That's what he told me.
891
00:51:09,291 --> 00:51:12,834
He was in there with Jimmy,
they were in the bed.
892
00:51:13,625 --> 00:51:15,959
They were clothed.
893
00:51:16,792 --> 00:51:21,250
Still, didn't think anything.
894
00:51:24,291 --> 00:51:26,542
There was a castle in the theme park
895
00:51:26,625 --> 00:51:28,917
and upstairs had a bedroom.
896
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,917
You could see
if somebody was coming.
897
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,291
It had just this small bed,
898
00:51:34,375 --> 00:51:36,750
it's upstair... and up there,
we would have sex.
899
00:51:40,875 --> 00:51:43,166
The pool and the Jacuzzi...
900
00:51:44,417 --> 00:51:45,917
oral sex,
901
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,667
like, holding your breath
and then going down,
902
00:51:48,750 --> 00:51:51,166
kind of like a game.
903
00:51:52,333 --> 00:51:56,333
At the train station,
there's a room upstairs,
904
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,792
and we would have
sex up there, too.
905
00:52:01,542 --> 00:52:05,083
It would happen every day.
906
00:52:05,667 --> 00:52:08,125
It sounds sick,
but it's kind of like
907
00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:10,291
when you're first
dating somebody,
908
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:13,125
right, and you do
a lot of it.
909
00:52:13,208 --> 00:52:15,500
So, it was very much like that.
910
00:52:24,166 --> 00:52:28,542
At the same time the sexual
relationship is growing,
911
00:52:28,625 --> 00:52:32,917
he's working on pushing you
away from your parents,
912
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,166
or pushing you away
from everybody else, and...
913
00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:38,542
and it feels more like...
914
00:52:41,917 --> 00:52:44,125
like it's just you and him.
915
00:52:49,667 --> 00:52:52,709
My husband and I are still together.
916
00:52:52,792 --> 00:52:55,542
However, we have
separate bedrooms.
917
00:52:55,625 --> 00:52:59,125
But our marriage was so bad,
the whole situation,
918
00:52:59,208 --> 00:53:00,875
and I don't know that...
919
00:53:00,959 --> 00:53:03,750
I don't even think my son knew
920
00:53:03,834 --> 00:53:05,709
because my son was
so busy having fun.
921
00:53:05,792 --> 00:53:09,917
He didn't know that Jim and I
were in separate bedrooms,
922
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,000
barely getting along.
923
00:53:15,917 --> 00:53:18,667
We would listen in on people's phone calls.
924
00:53:18,750 --> 00:53:22,583
Eavesdrop on my parents
when they were fighting.
925
00:53:22,667 --> 00:53:25,333
And he would tell me...
926
00:53:25,417 --> 00:53:28,250
"Look how mean your mom is
927
00:53:28,917 --> 00:53:30,500
and how evil women are."
928
00:53:30,583 --> 00:53:33,792
But, at the time, you just hear
your mom yelling at your dad,
929
00:53:33,875 --> 00:53:36,583
and Michael feeds into that.
930
00:53:38,041 --> 00:53:40,917
Your love for him is growing
and your relationships
931
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,959
with other people
are getting less.
932
00:53:46,291 --> 00:53:49,083
Your success is
an American dream come true.
933
00:53:50,625 --> 00:53:52,333
It's constantly reinforced, too,
934
00:53:52,417 --> 00:53:55,041
by everybody else
in the world.
935
00:53:55,125 --> 00:53:56,875
So, it's a really
intense feeling
936
00:53:56,959 --> 00:53:59,333
'cause everybody
else is loving him.
937
00:53:59,417 --> 00:54:03,917
It's like everybody's on board,
so it's very powerful.
938
00:54:04,542 --> 00:54:08,500
You start to think
that your parents are bad
939
00:54:08,583 --> 00:54:10,959
and that Michael is good.
940
00:54:21,458 --> 00:54:24,041
We may not have Michael
Jackson on the program tonight,
941
00:54:24,125 --> 00:54:27,041
but we have the next
best thing, Wade Robson.
942
00:54:33,208 --> 00:54:36,750
Joy and Dennis Robson
are suitably proud of their son.
943
00:54:36,834 --> 00:54:38,875
It's really amazing because
944
00:54:38,959 --> 00:54:40,625
everything he does
945
00:54:40,709 --> 00:54:42,583
we haven't taught him anything.
946
00:54:42,667 --> 00:54:44,917
The whole...
the act that he does
947
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,917
is all himself.
948
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,375
Nobody's taught him anything.
949
00:54:49,458 --> 00:54:53,083
People always told me,
be careful what you do
950
00:54:53,166 --> 00:54:55,792
Don't go around breaking
young girls' hearts
951
00:54:55,875 --> 00:54:57,959
I started to like Michael,
952
00:54:58,041 --> 00:54:59,667
and I started
copying the moves,
953
00:54:59,750 --> 00:55:01,333
and that's how
I started dancing.
954
00:55:07,542 --> 00:55:10,750
I mean, if he wanted to stop,
there'd be no pressure. Fine.
955
00:55:10,834 --> 00:55:12,500
If that's what he wants
to do, that's fine.
956
00:55:12,583 --> 00:55:13,959
You know I'm bad
957
00:55:14,041 --> 00:55:16,041
What do you wanna be when you grow up?
958
00:55:16,125 --> 00:55:18,041
I wanna be a star,
959
00:55:18,125 --> 00:55:21,583
and keep everybody happy
while I'm doing it.
960
00:55:21,667 --> 00:55:23,792
And the whole world
has to answer right now
961
00:55:23,875 --> 00:55:26,166
Just to tell you once
again, who's bad?
962
00:55:30,917 --> 00:55:32,917
I auditioned for
963
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,291
a dance company in Brisbane
964
00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:38,583
called the Johnny Young
Talent School.
965
00:55:40,583 --> 00:55:43,709
I mean, this was, you know,
a jazz dance company,
966
00:55:43,792 --> 00:55:45,667
but I showed up
as Michael Jackson,
967
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:47,709
in the full outfit again.
968
00:55:48,333 --> 00:55:50,667
And they wanted me in the company,
and I got in the company,
969
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:53,667
and I became their
Michael Jackson.
970
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:55,875
You know, we started
performing at malls
971
00:55:55,959 --> 00:55:58,834
and all that sort of thing,
pretty constantly,
972
00:55:58,917 --> 00:56:01,333
every weekend at least.
973
00:56:01,417 --> 00:56:03,917
At some point,
the hair got permed.
974
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,041
That was taking it
to a new level for me.
975
00:56:07,417 --> 00:56:10,166
He had the full curls
and... yeah.
976
00:56:13,583 --> 00:56:15,333
It's like a kid
with his superhero,
977
00:56:15,417 --> 00:56:17,500
being obsessed
with a superhero,
978
00:56:17,583 --> 00:56:20,000
but taking it up
three or four notches.
979
00:56:20,083 --> 00:56:21,917
It was kind of... kind of weird.
980
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:29,375
Every show they did was based around Wade,
981
00:56:29,458 --> 00:56:32,500
and it was amazing how
this woman would work "Bad"
982
00:56:32,583 --> 00:56:36,125
into every scenario,
or "Smooth Criminal,"
983
00:56:36,208 --> 00:56:37,917
even Christmas.
984
00:56:42,792 --> 00:56:44,041
Pow!
985
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,875
And then, they announced
that they were all going
986
00:56:48,959 --> 00:56:52,875
to dance in Disneyland
for Australia Day.
987
00:56:57,125 --> 00:56:59,166
Because it was a big America trip,
988
00:56:59,250 --> 00:57:01,917
obviously my mom
and my dad were gonna go,
989
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,333
and then my grandparents
came as well.
990
00:57:06,166 --> 00:57:08,917
My name is
Lorraine Jean Cullen,
991
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,875
and I'm Wade Robson's
grandmother.
992
00:57:14,667 --> 00:57:17,458
He used to copy
all the latest steps
993
00:57:17,542 --> 00:57:19,625
that Michael Jackson did.
994
00:57:19,709 --> 00:57:23,500
Forever dancing,
wouldn't matter where he was.
995
00:57:24,083 --> 00:57:28,000
It wasn't my sort of dancing,
that's for sure.
996
00:57:28,083 --> 00:57:30,750
But we just all went
on the plane together,
997
00:57:30,834 --> 00:57:34,041
and we went over to Disneyland.
998
00:57:41,041 --> 00:57:43,166
There was, like,
hundreds of kids, like,
999
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:46,250
all in our red sweatsuits that
said Johnny Young Talent School,
1000
00:57:46,333 --> 00:57:49,625
like, going to America
for the first time.
1001
00:57:49,709 --> 00:57:52,000
Michael had said,
that last time we saw him,
1002
00:57:52,083 --> 00:57:55,041
"If you ever come
to America, look me up."
1003
00:57:55,709 --> 00:57:57,333
It's like, oh sure,
you just look him up
1004
00:57:57,417 --> 00:58:01,125
in the White Pages and find him?
1005
00:58:01,208 --> 00:58:03,959
I started calling around
some of the television shows
1006
00:58:04,041 --> 00:58:05,625
that Wade had been on,
1007
00:58:05,709 --> 00:58:10,208
trying to find a number
where we could contact Michael.
1008
00:58:10,291 --> 00:58:13,208
And we got passed around,
passed around, passed around,
1009
00:58:13,291 --> 00:58:15,208
and finally, somebody
gave me a number,
1010
00:58:15,291 --> 00:58:16,917
Michael's personal assistant.
1011
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,959
So, we called her,
and she said,
1012
00:58:20,041 --> 00:58:23,125
"Oh, let me talk to Michael,
1013
00:58:23,208 --> 00:58:26,166
and I will call you back."
1014
00:58:26,250 --> 00:58:27,500
So, she did.
1015
00:58:27,583 --> 00:58:30,333
She called back and said
Michael remembered Wade,
1016
00:58:30,417 --> 00:58:34,291
and wanted to meet us,
and asked if we would meet him
1017
00:58:34,375 --> 00:58:36,208
in Sherman Oaks
at Record One,
1018
00:58:36,291 --> 00:58:38,959
where he was recording
his new album.
1019
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:48,709
The impossible.
1020
00:58:48,792 --> 00:58:53,500
You don't just come to America
and start calling some numbers,
1021
00:58:53,583 --> 00:58:56,417
and get in contact with
Michael Jackson somehow,
1022
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:58,500
and then you're
gonna see him again.
1023
00:58:58,583 --> 00:59:01,959
Like, that was just
not a normal scenario.
1024
00:59:03,250 --> 00:59:07,875
My mom, Wade,
myself, and my dad,
1025
00:59:07,959 --> 00:59:10,291
all went to Record One,
1026
00:59:10,375 --> 00:59:14,834
and that's the first time that
I actually had met Michael.
1027
00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:21,625
He was doing some sort of
photo shoot in the lobby area.
1028
00:59:21,709 --> 00:59:23,917
My mother and father and sister
1029
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,250
got in for a sort of
group photo with Michael,
1030
00:59:28,625 --> 00:59:31,000
and then he and I took
some shots alone.
1031
00:59:31,083 --> 00:59:36,166
I was in a full custom
Smooth Criminal outfit.
1032
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:40,959
We showed him
some tapes of dancing,
1033
00:59:41,041 --> 00:59:42,542
performances,
things I've been doing
1034
00:59:42,625 --> 00:59:45,417
over the last two years
that he wanted to see.
1035
00:59:47,208 --> 00:59:49,083
I think it was a Friday,
1036
00:59:49,166 --> 00:59:51,583
and he said, you know,
"Do you and the family,
1037
00:59:51,667 --> 00:59:55,333
do you guys wanna come
to Neverland for the weekend?"
1038
01:00:14,875 --> 01:00:17,750
Michael asked
if me and my sister
1039
01:00:17,834 --> 01:00:21,542
wanted to drive with him,
and of course I did.
1040
01:00:21,625 --> 01:00:25,208
And my parents and grandparents
would follow behind.
1041
01:00:25,291 --> 01:00:28,250
I remember him
playing us some music,
1042
01:00:28,333 --> 01:00:30,458
like some unreleased music.
1043
01:00:30,542 --> 01:00:34,041
Just getting this, like,
secret access, right,
1044
01:00:34,125 --> 01:00:36,417
to him and to his world.
1045
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,291
It was sort of surreal for us,
for all of us.
1046
01:00:43,375 --> 01:00:47,625
Hollywood and this whole
entertainment business was, um,
1047
01:00:47,709 --> 01:00:50,333
on another planet
from where we were.
1048
01:00:54,083 --> 01:00:56,333
As we were getting closer and closer
1049
01:00:56,417 --> 01:00:59,792
to Neverland and, you know,
Michael telling us,
1050
01:00:59,875 --> 01:01:03,041
only about 15 more minutes
or 10 more minutes, and just...
1051
01:01:03,125 --> 01:01:05,458
the excitement really building.
1052
01:01:08,417 --> 01:01:10,667
You had to pull up at the gate,
1053
01:01:10,750 --> 01:01:13,083
and the guards came
and wanted to make sure
1054
01:01:13,166 --> 01:01:16,667
you didn't have any cameras
or anything like that.
1055
01:01:16,750 --> 01:01:19,166
It was a little
bit intimidating.
1056
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:22,041
I hadn't met any
celebrities ever,
1057
01:01:22,125 --> 01:01:24,333
and I was quite lost,
1058
01:01:24,417 --> 01:01:27,625
but I had my husband
there, so, yes.
1059
01:01:29,458 --> 01:01:32,333
It's like a fairy land.
It's all fairy lights,
1060
01:01:32,417 --> 01:01:35,834
and there's beautiful lakes
that are all lit up,
1061
01:01:35,917 --> 01:01:40,291
and the house was all lit up.
It was just amazing.
1062
01:01:40,375 --> 01:01:42,917
As soon as you pulled in,
there's music going.
1063
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,834
There's flowers everywhere.
1064
01:01:44,917 --> 01:01:48,083
It felt like you were driving into
this little heaven, you know.
1065
01:01:49,417 --> 01:01:50,792
The car pulls up,
1066
01:01:50,875 --> 01:01:52,500
and there's
everybody that works
1067
01:01:52,583 --> 01:01:56,291
at the ranch kind of lined up,
ready to greet you.
1068
01:01:56,375 --> 01:01:59,375
I've never been in that
type of world before,
1069
01:01:59,458 --> 01:02:02,000
and such a big house and...
1070
01:02:02,083 --> 01:02:03,625
it was magical.
1071
01:02:05,417 --> 01:02:09,333
I mean, we were all tripping out,
you know, on this place.
1072
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,583
You know, it was just...
out of a...
1073
01:02:14,667 --> 01:02:17,166
out of a storybook, right,
out of a fairy tale.
1074
01:02:21,583 --> 01:02:23,375
Michael showed us all around the house,
1075
01:02:23,458 --> 01:02:26,083
and at that time,
he only had the theater.
1076
01:02:26,166 --> 01:02:29,041
He didn't have
all the other things.
1077
01:02:29,125 --> 01:02:32,041
It's like a child's
dream come true.
1078
01:02:32,125 --> 01:02:34,750
There's a big candy store there
1079
01:02:34,834 --> 01:02:37,291
that you just help yourself to,
soft-serve ice cream,
1080
01:02:37,375 --> 01:02:42,792
and all the chocolates in the world,
and popcorn, and then a beautiful theater.
1081
01:02:44,500 --> 01:02:47,083
To the left was a dining room,
1082
01:02:47,166 --> 01:02:50,083
and then kitchen, living room.
1083
01:02:50,166 --> 01:02:54,000
Tons of beautiful paintings
and statues everywhere.
1084
01:02:54,709 --> 01:02:56,333
It was more than just
1085
01:02:56,417 --> 01:02:59,333
going to someone's house
that was beautiful.
1086
01:02:59,917 --> 01:03:02,250
You know, it felt like
a lot more than that,
1087
01:03:02,333 --> 01:03:03,542
a lot different than that.
1088
01:03:03,625 --> 01:03:05,583
It felt like traveling
to another planet.
1089
01:03:09,417 --> 01:03:12,083
And then we all came back to the guest units,
1090
01:03:12,166 --> 01:03:15,166
and Michael came back
with the children.
1091
01:03:15,250 --> 01:03:17,792
They'd been looking
at some other things.
1092
01:03:17,875 --> 01:03:20,291
And they came in and...
1093
01:03:20,375 --> 01:03:24,291
they asked if they could stay
with Michael for the night.
1094
01:03:24,375 --> 01:03:27,500
The guest quarters is a separate building,
1095
01:03:27,583 --> 01:03:30,583
essentially, kind of,
across from the main house,
1096
01:03:30,667 --> 01:03:34,166
with about, I think,
four hotel rooms.
1097
01:03:34,250 --> 01:03:36,792
"You can stay in the guest quarters
with your parents if you want,
1098
01:03:36,875 --> 01:03:40,875
"or if you want, you can, you know,
you can stay with me, in my room."
1099
01:03:41,542 --> 01:03:45,542
And I was like, you know,
I wanna stay with Michael.
1100
01:03:46,709 --> 01:03:48,417
So, we thought, oh, okay.
1101
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:50,166
We didn't seem to think
anything of it.
1102
01:03:50,250 --> 01:03:53,792
We just thought that's fine,
and Chantal was with him as well.
1103
01:03:57,709 --> 01:04:01,166
Like,
for me to look back on the scenario now,
1104
01:04:01,250 --> 01:04:06,333
what you'd think would be standard,
kind of, instincts and judgment,
1105
01:04:06,417 --> 01:04:09,417
uh, seemed to go out the window.
1106
01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:11,083
Even if we knew him,
1107
01:04:11,166 --> 01:04:13,166
which we didn't, at all.
1108
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:14,959
We'd known him for,
1109
01:04:15,041 --> 01:04:17,750
I don't know what,
four hours maybe.
1110
01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:22,000
Not known him. We met him
four hours ago, you know?
1111
01:04:22,083 --> 01:04:25,500
That's the trippy part is because
it felt like we knew him.
1112
01:04:25,583 --> 01:04:30,458
Like, he had been
in my living room every day.
1113
01:04:30,542 --> 01:04:34,834
In my ears via his music
and his posters like...
1114
01:04:34,917 --> 01:04:37,458
I had known him, I thought.
1115
01:04:38,083 --> 01:04:42,500
And it, for some reason,
it didn't feel strange
1116
01:04:42,583 --> 01:04:45,875
to let, you know,
me, a seven-year-old,
1117
01:04:45,959 --> 01:04:48,125
and my sister,
1118
01:04:48,208 --> 01:04:50,709
a 10-year-old,
1119
01:04:50,792 --> 01:04:53,000
sleep in this man's bedroom.
1120
01:04:59,625 --> 01:05:05,291
Michael had an extra
guest bed that was above his bed.
1121
01:05:05,375 --> 01:05:07,333
It was basically like
a staircase that just kind of
1122
01:05:07,417 --> 01:05:11,208
took you up to this
other room in his room.
1123
01:05:11,291 --> 01:05:13,959
And so, he said
that we could stay
1124
01:05:14,041 --> 01:05:17,583
in his room in that guest unit,
if we wanted to.
1125
01:05:17,667 --> 01:05:21,250
And of course, we were like,
"Please, can we?" you know.
1126
01:05:21,333 --> 01:05:25,583
We went to his bedroom and sat
on his bed and talked to him.
1127
01:05:25,667 --> 01:05:29,250
And he had a train
running around the bed,
1128
01:05:29,333 --> 01:05:31,792
electric train
running the bedroom,
1129
01:05:31,875 --> 01:05:35,375
and he was just
like a child. Yes.
1130
01:05:37,959 --> 01:05:40,083
There was pillow fights.
1131
01:05:40,166 --> 01:05:43,709
I mean, just having a blast,
like, no rules.
1132
01:05:43,792 --> 01:05:47,125
You know, like, you can't
get in trouble, you know.
1133
01:05:47,208 --> 01:05:49,834
We were just kind of all
hanging out in Michael's bed,
1134
01:05:49,917 --> 01:05:53,083
in the same bed,
like me, Wade, and Michael,
1135
01:05:53,166 --> 01:05:56,959
and just watching movies
and watching videos.
1136
01:05:57,792 --> 01:05:59,208
And then at some point,
1137
01:05:59,291 --> 01:06:02,500
we just knocked out,
all three of us on his bed.
1138
01:06:03,166 --> 01:06:06,750
Yeah, and that's as much as
I remember that first night.
1139
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,083
The next morning,
waking up and looking at the lake,
1140
01:06:26,166 --> 01:06:29,125
and the flowers
were just amazing.
1141
01:06:29,208 --> 01:06:30,792
I mean, my mother said
her first thought was,
1142
01:06:30,875 --> 01:06:32,792
"Oh my God, I've died
and gone to Heaven."
1143
01:06:32,875 --> 01:06:34,959
It was just so beautiful.
1144
01:06:40,792 --> 01:06:44,542
Here we go, like,
a day of adventure, right.
1145
01:06:46,500 --> 01:06:49,000
You know, it was a lot of
just silliness, sort of like that
1146
01:06:49,083 --> 01:06:53,041
chase each other and,
you know, big water fights.
1147
01:06:53,125 --> 01:06:56,583
It seemed right away
like he was family.
1148
01:06:57,250 --> 01:07:00,000
It was like being
with a brother.
1149
01:07:02,417 --> 01:07:05,542
We kind of loaded up
in a couple of golf carts,
1150
01:07:05,625 --> 01:07:08,417
and him driving us around and
showing us everything, right.
1151
01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:10,750
So this is
the first time of seeing,
1152
01:07:10,834 --> 01:07:13,250
um, the arcade.
1153
01:07:13,333 --> 01:07:16,750
We walk in and flip
a switch and boom,
1154
01:07:16,834 --> 01:07:19,625
the whole room
comes alive, right.
1155
01:07:19,709 --> 01:07:22,291
One of the most amazing things
that I could ever experience,
1156
01:07:22,375 --> 01:07:25,208
and have total access to,
to just go play whatever I wanted to.
1157
01:07:25,291 --> 01:07:27,458
And how I excited
1158
01:07:27,542 --> 01:07:31,750
Michael was to kind of watch
me and watch me react.
1159
01:07:31,834 --> 01:07:33,834
He was fascinated with Wade.
1160
01:07:33,917 --> 01:07:36,750
He said that, "It's like
looking at myself in a mirror.
1161
01:07:36,834 --> 01:07:39,458
I see myself
all over again."
1162
01:07:39,542 --> 01:07:41,417
So, that was something
to hear that,
1163
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:43,375
that was pretty impressive.
1164
01:07:43,458 --> 01:07:45,875
And this little boy was
just living the dream.
1165
01:07:45,959 --> 01:07:47,625
He really was.
1166
01:07:48,959 --> 01:07:52,083
The theme park,
which wasn't as extensive
1167
01:07:52,166 --> 01:07:55,458
then as it became, but...
1168
01:07:55,542 --> 01:08:00,375
still a theme park
in someone's house, you know.
1169
01:08:00,458 --> 01:08:05,208
You know, seeing my mother,
kind of just, high and giddy
1170
01:08:05,291 --> 01:08:07,250
and playful and like children.
1171
01:08:07,333 --> 01:08:09,500
And then on
to the animals, right.
1172
01:08:09,583 --> 01:08:13,000
I mean, chimpanzees, giraffes,
1173
01:08:13,959 --> 01:08:15,917
elephant,
1174
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:17,750
tiger.
1175
01:08:22,458 --> 01:08:25,750
You know, then it was bedtime,
and it was just kind of
1176
01:08:25,834 --> 01:08:28,375
unspoken, like it was
set up already as to how it,
1177
01:08:28,458 --> 01:08:31,208
you know,
how we slept last night.
1178
01:08:40,333 --> 01:08:42,667
At some point,
I had fallen asleep.
1179
01:08:43,667 --> 01:08:45,959
And I woke up.
1180
01:08:46,041 --> 01:08:49,709
I could hear, like, crying,
like, sulking and sobbing.
1181
01:08:53,083 --> 01:08:56,208
I could see a figure
over in the corner,
1182
01:08:56,291 --> 01:08:59,625
kind of scrunched up,
sort of sobbing.
1183
01:08:59,709 --> 01:09:02,667
It was kind of hard
to get words out.
1184
01:09:04,709 --> 01:09:08,375
'Cause we were supposed to leave
the next day, the whole family.
1185
01:09:08,458 --> 01:09:12,709
"I'm just so sad that you
guys are gonna leave me.
1186
01:09:14,375 --> 01:09:16,083
"You know,
I don't wanna be alone.
1187
01:09:16,166 --> 01:09:18,375
I don't want you guys to leave."
1188
01:09:20,250 --> 01:09:22,291
I mean, I felt the same way.
1189
01:09:22,375 --> 01:09:24,667
I felt like I almost
had this kind of
1190
01:09:24,750 --> 01:09:28,625
burden and guilt to like,
if I leave,
1191
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:30,583
like, what's gonna
happen to him?
1192
01:09:30,667 --> 01:09:33,542
Like, he was so upset,
you know?
1193
01:09:35,125 --> 01:09:36,542
Then, the next morning,
1194
01:09:36,625 --> 01:09:38,834
the plan was that we were
gonna go on this kind of trip
1195
01:09:38,917 --> 01:09:42,500
to the Grand Canyon and that
sort of thing with an RV.
1196
01:09:42,583 --> 01:09:45,709
I remember going into Michael's room
1197
01:09:45,792 --> 01:09:47,667
to talk to him about it,
1198
01:09:47,750 --> 01:09:49,375
and he said to Wade,
1199
01:09:49,458 --> 01:09:51,959
"We can stay here.
We can go to Los Angeles.
1200
01:09:52,041 --> 01:09:54,834
We can go wherever you want,
do whatever you want."
1201
01:09:54,917 --> 01:09:57,000
And Wade wanted to stay
at Neverland.
1202
01:09:57,083 --> 01:10:01,583
I actually didn't have
a problem with it at the time.
1203
01:10:01,667 --> 01:10:04,750
I didn't actually
have a hesitation.
1204
01:10:04,834 --> 01:10:07,000
So then, that's when
1205
01:10:07,083 --> 01:10:09,125
I left with my mom
and everybody,
1206
01:10:09,208 --> 01:10:11,333
and we went to the Grand Canyon.
1207
01:10:11,417 --> 01:10:13,041
We had, like, a motor home,
1208
01:10:13,125 --> 01:10:15,125
and we went and camped
and did all that,
1209
01:10:15,208 --> 01:10:19,041
and then Wade
stayed with Michael.
1210
01:10:19,125 --> 01:10:21,041
I was ecstatic about this.
1211
01:10:21,125 --> 01:10:23,166
Michael was
ecstatic about this.
1212
01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:26,000
So, my whole family left, um...
1213
01:10:26,083 --> 01:10:28,375
and I had, you know,
five days ahead of me,
1214
01:10:28,458 --> 01:10:30,083
with just me and Michael,
1215
01:10:30,166 --> 01:10:33,333
doing whatever the hell
we wanted to do.
1216
01:10:43,625 --> 01:10:45,667
There were no cell phones,
1217
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:47,625
or anything like that.
1218
01:10:48,417 --> 01:10:51,625
So, my parents had...
once they left,
1219
01:10:51,709 --> 01:10:56,000
they had no direct access
to me at all.
1220
01:10:56,959 --> 01:10:59,417
They were really far away,
1221
01:10:59,500 --> 01:11:02,250
in... many ways.
1222
01:11:12,458 --> 01:11:14,625
We went right through the canyon.
1223
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:17,083
First time I've ever seen snow.
1224
01:11:17,166 --> 01:11:19,750
That was exciting, too.
1225
01:11:19,834 --> 01:11:21,208
And, uh...
1226
01:11:21,291 --> 01:11:24,750
we thought that Michael was
teaching him all his dances.
1227
01:11:24,834 --> 01:11:29,083
That's... We thought,
how lucky he was to have that,
1228
01:11:29,166 --> 01:11:31,750
somebody to take
their time and do it,
1229
01:11:31,834 --> 01:11:33,917
in his position,
1230
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,041
to have somebody like that,
1231
01:11:36,125 --> 01:11:38,375
to teach him what to do.
1232
01:11:39,083 --> 01:11:42,625
I somewhat regretted it
as we were traveling.
1233
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:45,542
I became a little anxious,
at times, about it.
1234
01:11:45,625 --> 01:11:49,625
And I remember calling once,
and I couldn't get through.
1235
01:11:49,709 --> 01:11:52,542
I remember being absolutely
hysterical on the phone
1236
01:11:52,625 --> 01:11:54,750
at one point because
I couldn't get through,
1237
01:11:54,834 --> 01:11:56,291
and I couldn't find him.
1238
01:12:00,750 --> 01:12:05,041
First day at Neverland was
1239
01:12:05,125 --> 01:12:07,834
Michael making
physical contact with me.
1240
01:12:07,917 --> 01:12:11,208
Like, his had on my thigh,
1241
01:12:12,041 --> 01:12:15,125
um, hugs, you know.
1242
01:12:15,208 --> 01:12:17,542
It felt great.
1243
01:12:17,625 --> 01:12:20,333
And, out of all
the kids in the world,
1244
01:12:20,417 --> 01:12:22,875
he chose me to be his friend.
1245
01:12:22,959 --> 01:12:25,500
And he's holding my hand.
1246
01:12:25,583 --> 01:12:29,375
Within the context
of what was going on,
1247
01:12:29,458 --> 01:12:31,834
it seemed normal, you know.
1248
01:12:35,417 --> 01:12:39,083
The days were filled with
1249
01:12:39,166 --> 01:12:41,542
playing tag, watching movies.
1250
01:12:41,625 --> 01:12:44,333
He taught me how to do
the moonwalk.
1251
01:12:44,417 --> 01:12:47,709
This contrast began
between the day and the night.
1252
01:12:49,875 --> 01:12:52,709
We were going to sleep
in his bed.
1253
01:12:53,959 --> 01:12:56,917
The first thing
I remember is, is...
1254
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,166
Michael...
1255
01:12:59,250 --> 01:13:01,709
sort of, you know,
moving his hands
1256
01:13:01,792 --> 01:13:04,083
across my... legs.
1257
01:13:04,166 --> 01:13:07,709
We were both clothed in PJs.
1258
01:13:07,792 --> 01:13:10,458
And then his hands
sort of got to,
1259
01:13:10,542 --> 01:13:13,250
you know, my crotch area,
1260
01:13:13,333 --> 01:13:16,625
and he's
sort of fondling there.
1261
01:13:16,709 --> 01:13:18,250
And how old were you?
1262
01:13:18,333 --> 01:13:22,667
I was seven, seven years old
when this began.
1263
01:13:26,291 --> 01:13:29,917
Fondling my penis
over the top of my pants.
1264
01:13:31,041 --> 01:13:35,792
And then, his hands went
underneath my pants.
1265
01:13:38,792 --> 01:13:40,500
And, uh...
1266
01:13:40,583 --> 01:13:44,166
and started touching my penis
underneath my pants and...
1267
01:13:46,291 --> 01:13:48,792
Yeah, there was nothing
aggressive about it,
1268
01:13:48,875 --> 01:13:50,625
nothing abrasive.
1269
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:54,291
I never felt scared or...
1270
01:13:54,375 --> 01:13:56,375
anything like that.
1271
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:00,959
It just...
1272
01:14:02,333 --> 01:14:05,166
didn't seem that strange.
1273
01:14:09,834 --> 01:14:15,542
And then him guiding me
to do the same thing with him.
1274
01:14:15,625 --> 01:14:18,875
So, moving my hands, um,
1275
01:14:19,542 --> 01:14:21,792
to touch his penis.
1276
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:25,333
uh, which, you know,
1277
01:14:25,417 --> 01:14:27,583
was erect.
1278
01:14:33,417 --> 01:14:37,000
Him talking to me,
"You and I were
1279
01:14:37,083 --> 01:14:39,709
"brought together by God.
1280
01:14:41,458 --> 01:14:43,375
"We were meant to be together.
1281
01:14:43,458 --> 01:14:45,834
"You know, and this is us
1282
01:14:45,917 --> 01:14:49,417
"showing each other
that we love each other.
1283
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,208
This is how we show our love."
1284
01:14:56,208 --> 01:14:58,709
I mean, it escalated rapidly.
1285
01:14:58,792 --> 01:15:01,458
So, taking showers
together and,
1286
01:15:01,542 --> 01:15:04,000
you know, fondling and kissing.
1287
01:15:04,083 --> 01:15:08,041
So him kissing me,
I mean, like, full, open mouth,
1288
01:15:08,125 --> 01:15:11,083
tongue-in-mouth kissing.
1289
01:15:13,917 --> 01:15:17,291
He would put my fingers
on his nipples,
1290
01:15:17,375 --> 01:15:20,041
and, like, tell me
to squeeze them.
1291
01:15:20,125 --> 01:15:23,583
And he would moan and react
to that, like it felt good,
1292
01:15:23,667 --> 01:15:26,583
and I liked the feeling that
1293
01:15:26,667 --> 01:15:30,709
was making him happy,
that was pleasing him, you know.
1294
01:15:32,875 --> 01:15:36,667
And then Michael
pulling my pants
1295
01:15:36,750 --> 01:15:40,083
and my underwear down,
pulling them off...
1296
01:15:44,041 --> 01:15:45,959
and, uh,
1297
01:15:46,041 --> 01:15:48,542
and going down and starting to,
1298
01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:51,250
you know, perform oral sex...
1299
01:15:51,333 --> 01:15:53,500
on me.
1300
01:15:58,125 --> 01:16:01,709
And I remember him putting
1301
01:16:01,792 --> 01:16:05,208
my hands on his head
1302
01:16:05,291 --> 01:16:07,583
when he was down there.
1303
01:16:09,250 --> 01:16:11,291
I'll never forget the...
1304
01:16:12,125 --> 01:16:13,709
the, um,
1305
01:16:13,792 --> 01:16:16,041
the feeling of his hair.
1306
01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:18,041
It was rough, almost like a, um,
1307
01:16:18,125 --> 01:16:21,709
like a Brillo pad,
like this roughness.
1308
01:16:21,792 --> 01:16:24,291
And he's down there and...
1309
01:16:26,917 --> 01:16:28,750
you know, with his...
1310
01:16:28,834 --> 01:16:31,125
his mouth on my, you know,
1311
01:16:31,208 --> 01:16:34,083
seven-year-old penis.
1312
01:16:34,166 --> 01:16:36,834
You know, quickly it
turned into having me
1313
01:16:36,917 --> 01:16:39,041
perform oral sex on him, too.
1314
01:16:40,917 --> 01:16:43,083
I mean, to be honest,
and to be graphic about it,
1315
01:16:43,166 --> 01:16:49,792
like, you know, a full adult,
grown man-size penis...
1316
01:16:49,875 --> 01:16:54,000
in my mouth, you know,
in a little seven-year-old's mouth...
1317
01:17:02,041 --> 01:17:05,792
He didn't ejaculate when he had
me perform oral sex on him,
1318
01:17:05,875 --> 01:17:10,041
but he used to...
he would masturbate in front of me.
1319
01:17:10,125 --> 01:17:12,166
He would have me
1320
01:17:12,250 --> 01:17:14,917
kind of go to, like,
the corner of the bed,
1321
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,959
like, a far corner of the bed,
1322
01:17:17,041 --> 01:17:19,500
so he'd be laying back
on a pillow,
1323
01:17:19,583 --> 01:17:23,625
and have me go to the far corner
of the bed and, um,
1324
01:17:23,709 --> 01:17:26,625
be on all fours,
1325
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:30,709
and have me sort of just
bend over my knees, you know,
1326
01:17:32,166 --> 01:17:35,750
um, so he could look at my anus
1327
01:17:35,834 --> 01:17:38,250
while he was masturbating.
1328
01:17:39,583 --> 01:17:43,041
And I was just,
kind of, on display.
1329
01:17:43,125 --> 01:17:46,000
And then, um,
periodically through that,
1330
01:17:46,083 --> 01:17:48,542
he would kind of
come up and, um,
1331
01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:52,458
and stick his tongue
in-in my anus.
1332
01:17:57,542 --> 01:18:01,583
Right in front of me,
there was this big,
1333
01:18:01,667 --> 01:18:06,417
kind of elaborate,
Peter Pan cardboard cutout.
1334
01:18:07,875 --> 01:18:10,500
So, it's like I was either
1335
01:18:10,583 --> 01:18:15,000
looking back at him...
masturbating,
1336
01:18:15,583 --> 01:18:20,583
or looking forward
at, uh, at Peter Pan.
1337
01:18:27,583 --> 01:18:30,166
You know, and then we'd
1338
01:18:30,250 --> 01:18:32,959
get up in the morning
1339
01:18:33,041 --> 01:18:35,709
like nothing had ever happened,
1340
01:18:35,792 --> 01:18:39,041
and go have
another day filled with
1341
01:18:39,125 --> 01:18:43,250
childhood magical
games and adventures.
1342
01:18:48,417 --> 01:18:51,208
Yeah, when my parents came
back at the end of the week,
1343
01:18:51,291 --> 01:18:55,875
I definitely remember
a feeling of us and them.
1344
01:18:55,959 --> 01:18:59,875
You know, our relationship
had evolved in so many ways,
1345
01:18:59,959 --> 01:19:02,917
and he had done so much, um...
1346
01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:05,709
so much talking to me,
1347
01:19:05,792 --> 01:19:09,333
about not trusting people,
1348
01:19:10,625 --> 01:19:13,959
any people, especially women.
1349
01:19:15,542 --> 01:19:18,333
He started calling me "son."
1350
01:19:19,208 --> 01:19:21,917
And for me, the idea of
1351
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,834
Michael Jackson being my dad
1352
01:19:24,917 --> 01:19:29,041
was the most incredible
idea in the world.
1353
01:19:31,542 --> 01:19:34,166
You know, I didn't have
anything against my dad,
1354
01:19:34,250 --> 01:19:36,041
that's for sure.
1355
01:19:36,125 --> 01:19:40,709
But Michael was just...
It was just too big.
1356
01:19:42,667 --> 01:19:48,500
That fantasy was just
too good to turn down.
1357
01:19:54,583 --> 01:19:56,750
And then the following week,
1358
01:19:56,834 --> 01:20:01,875
we were supposed to be going
to San Francisco,
1359
01:20:02,875 --> 01:20:06,458
and Wade didn't want to go,
he wanted to stay.
1360
01:20:13,083 --> 01:20:17,000
Michael was actually going back
to Los Angeles for the week.
1361
01:20:17,083 --> 01:20:21,208
Um, but he invited us
to go with him, so...
1362
01:20:21,291 --> 01:20:25,792
Wade and Chantal and I went
to LA with Michael,
1363
01:20:25,875 --> 01:20:30,500
and Dennis and my parents went
to San Francisco for the week.
1364
01:20:38,041 --> 01:20:40,542
He was living in Westwood
at the time.
1365
01:20:40,625 --> 01:20:45,166
He had a condo in Westwood,
which they called the Hideout.
1366
01:20:45,250 --> 01:20:47,500
Um, I remember walking
in there and there was
1367
01:20:47,583 --> 01:20:50,500
statues of Shirley Temple
and posters everywhere.
1368
01:20:50,583 --> 01:20:52,834
It was a really
interesting place,
1369
01:20:52,917 --> 01:20:55,250
childlike.
1370
01:20:56,458 --> 01:20:58,250
Shopping.
1371
01:21:00,041 --> 01:21:02,000
I think that's when
that really started.
1372
01:21:04,792 --> 01:21:07,000
We would go into,
like, the record stores,
1373
01:21:07,083 --> 01:21:11,333
and I remember, like,
Michael just filling up, like, a whole cart,
1374
01:21:11,417 --> 01:21:13,166
like, full of records and CDs,
1375
01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:16,166
and we were allowed to put
whatever we wanted in there.
1376
01:21:19,583 --> 01:21:21,792
Every time we entered a place,
like,
1377
01:21:21,875 --> 01:21:25,291
"Look around and get
anything you want.
1378
01:21:25,792 --> 01:21:28,166
"Get everything," you know.
1379
01:21:28,667 --> 01:21:30,875
Normally, the experience was
you go into a toy store
1380
01:21:30,959 --> 01:21:33,208
and it's like,
you can get one thing, you know.
1381
01:21:33,291 --> 01:21:36,834
And now this was, like,
grab a cart and fill it up.
1382
01:21:49,792 --> 01:21:54,333
Me and Mom slept in the living room.
1383
01:21:54,417 --> 01:21:57,500
Wade slept in the room
with Michael.
1384
01:21:57,583 --> 01:21:59,750
I don't remember
any sort of comment
1385
01:21:59,834 --> 01:22:03,000
about me staying with Michael
and sleeping in his room.
1386
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:05,917
When we were in Los Angeles,
1387
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,333
Chantal and I spent
quite a bit of time alone.
1388
01:22:10,208 --> 01:22:12,041
They, um,
1389
01:22:12,875 --> 01:22:16,250
We went to Westwood.
We'd walk down there and do things.
1390
01:22:16,333 --> 01:22:19,875
Wade and Michael would
stay in the room a lot,
1391
01:22:19,959 --> 01:22:21,917
just play...
I presume playing games,
1392
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,000
and they did a lot
of that sort of thing.
1393
01:22:24,083 --> 01:22:26,542
Watching cartoons,
he was a big cartoon-watcher.
1394
01:22:26,625 --> 01:22:29,250
Once the abuse started,
1395
01:22:29,333 --> 01:22:31,500
within that first week,
you know,
1396
01:22:31,583 --> 01:22:35,500
every night that I was
with him, there was abuse,
1397
01:22:35,583 --> 01:22:37,583
while my mother was,
1398
01:22:37,667 --> 01:22:39,667
you know, next door.
1399
01:22:42,208 --> 01:22:45,750
You know, he started talking
about how much he loves me.
1400
01:22:45,834 --> 01:22:48,125
"What this is, is us.
1401
01:22:48,208 --> 01:22:51,667
"How we show our love
for each other.
1402
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:54,333
"Other people are ignorant,
and they're stupid,
1403
01:22:54,417 --> 01:22:55,917
and they'd never understand."
1404
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:59,166
If they ever found out
what we were doing,
1405
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,208
about the sexual stuff,
1406
01:23:02,291 --> 01:23:03,875
that he and I
would be pulled apart,
1407
01:23:03,959 --> 01:23:06,959
that we'd never be able
to see each other again.
1408
01:23:07,041 --> 01:23:09,667
And that he and I
1409
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:13,583
would go to jail
for the rest of our lives.
1410
01:23:29,917 --> 01:23:32,709
You do feel sorry for him.
1411
01:23:32,792 --> 01:23:36,041
You honestly believe
that this is a lonely man,
1412
01:23:36,125 --> 01:23:39,125
and that we can help make
him happy.
1413
01:23:39,208 --> 01:23:41,166
Us...
1414
01:23:41,250 --> 01:23:44,417
Us, who are just nobodies.
1415
01:23:45,917 --> 01:23:49,500
We couldn't believe that he
would want to hang around us
1416
01:23:49,583 --> 01:23:52,250
in this tiny little house.
1417
01:23:52,333 --> 01:23:55,000
And he'd walk in the house and
he'd walk in the front door,
1418
01:23:55,083 --> 01:23:58,667
and he'd go...
"The Safechucks!"
1419
01:23:58,750 --> 01:24:02,417
Like he was at home,
you know, full armed-up acting.
1420
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:04,917
"Ah, the Safechucks!"
1421
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,125
That's how he felt about us.
1422
01:24:09,125 --> 01:24:11,875
You go from your
normal lifestyle,
1423
01:24:11,959 --> 01:24:15,500
day after day,
everything's the same, to...
1424
01:24:15,583 --> 01:24:18,625
this big star
1425
01:24:18,709 --> 01:24:21,208
calling your house,
1426
01:24:21,291 --> 01:24:25,500
wanting to come to your home
and have dinner in your home,
1427
01:24:25,583 --> 01:24:29,250
wanting to spend the night
in your little house.
1428
01:24:29,333 --> 01:24:33,041
He could be anywhere,
with anybody in the world,
1429
01:24:33,125 --> 01:24:36,959
and Michael wanted to be
with our family.
1430
01:24:37,041 --> 01:24:40,166
This was all so overwhelming
1431
01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:43,041
and like a fairy tale.
1432
01:24:43,125 --> 01:24:45,083
And I got lost in it,
1433
01:24:45,166 --> 01:24:47,959
and I know my husband
got lost in it, too.
1434
01:24:49,583 --> 01:24:51,709
You're just fully
1435
01:24:51,792 --> 01:24:54,750
in love at that time.
1436
01:24:54,834 --> 01:24:57,959
When I wasn't with him, I was
always thinking about him.
1437
01:24:58,041 --> 01:25:01,250
It just feels like the greatest
thing when he calls.
1438
01:25:01,333 --> 01:25:03,125
He'd come over,
we'd spend the day shopping
1439
01:25:03,208 --> 01:25:05,959
and hang out
or he'd spend the night.
1440
01:25:07,417 --> 01:25:10,083
Or I would go
to the Hideout in Westwood
1441
01:25:10,166 --> 01:25:12,458
and spend a few nights there.
1442
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,750
So, we were like
this married couple.
1443
01:25:21,834 --> 01:25:24,417
And I say married
because we had
1444
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:28,792
this mock wedding ceremony.
1445
01:25:28,875 --> 01:25:33,000
We did this in his bedroom,
1446
01:25:33,083 --> 01:25:36,875
and we... like,
filled out some vows.
1447
01:25:36,959 --> 01:25:39,208
It's like,
we're bonded forever.
1448
01:25:39,291 --> 01:25:41,792
It felt good,
1449
01:25:41,875 --> 01:25:44,166
and the ring is nice.
1450
01:25:45,125 --> 01:25:48,709
It has a row of diamonds
1451
01:25:49,625 --> 01:25:51,667
with a gold band...
1452
01:25:52,375 --> 01:25:54,542
the wedding ring.
1453
01:26:01,500 --> 01:26:06,834
It's hard to go back
to that... moment.
1454
01:26:11,542 --> 01:26:14,208
I was really into jewelry,
1455
01:26:14,291 --> 01:26:16,959
and he would reward me
1456
01:26:17,041 --> 01:26:20,625
with jewelry for doing
sexual acts for him.
1457
01:26:20,709 --> 01:26:24,750
He would say that
I need to sell him some
1458
01:26:26,083 --> 01:26:29,792
so that I could
earn the gift.
1459
01:26:31,709 --> 01:26:35,166
You know, I like jewelry,
and I liked it as a kid,
1460
01:26:35,250 --> 01:26:37,083
and I think that...
1461
01:26:38,917 --> 01:26:41,542
something that I enjoyed
was used against me,
1462
01:26:41,625 --> 01:26:43,875
so I think that that...
1463
01:26:44,834 --> 01:26:47,583
causes discomfort. I...
1464
01:26:49,208 --> 01:26:51,542
It's still hard
1465
01:26:51,625 --> 01:26:53,583
for me to...
1466
01:26:53,667 --> 01:26:55,959
not blame myself.
1467
01:26:59,333 --> 01:27:02,417
This piece of jewelry is
like a Rolex...
1468
01:27:02,500 --> 01:27:04,583
ring with a diamond
in the middle.
1469
01:27:10,166 --> 01:27:13,500
My hands are shaking
just holding them.
1470
01:27:15,834 --> 01:27:18,333
We would go buy them...
1471
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,458
at jewelry stores.
1472
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,458
And we would pretend like they
were for somebody else and...
1473
01:27:27,625 --> 01:27:29,917
like for a female, but...
1474
01:27:31,375 --> 01:27:34,000
we would pretend
like my small hand fit
1475
01:27:34,083 --> 01:27:37,458
whatever female we were
buying it for. Yeah.
1476
01:27:46,333 --> 01:27:49,417
Yeah, I don't-I don't
like looking at the jewelry.
1477
01:28:08,208 --> 01:28:13,542
You know,
I left Australia as this young fan
1478
01:28:13,625 --> 01:28:15,709
of Michael Jackson.
1479
01:28:15,792 --> 01:28:18,375
And came back
1480
01:28:18,458 --> 01:28:20,875
Michael Jackson's best friend.
1481
01:28:20,959 --> 01:28:22,792
And his lover.
- Yeah.
1482
01:28:22,875 --> 01:28:25,083
And his lover.
1483
01:28:26,959 --> 01:28:30,917
Trying to adjust back
to reality was hard.
1484
01:28:33,542 --> 01:28:36,291
I was back in school.
1485
01:28:36,375 --> 01:28:41,041
The thing that
I think made it okay...
1486
01:28:41,709 --> 01:28:45,125
was that the contact
with Michael
1487
01:28:45,208 --> 01:28:46,959
was constant.
1488
01:28:47,041 --> 01:28:49,208
We used to spend
1489
01:28:49,291 --> 01:28:53,375
hours and hours
and hours on the phone.
1490
01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:57,041
He called every day,
for two years.
1491
01:28:57,125 --> 01:28:59,000
Every blue moon,
I would talk to Michael.
1492
01:28:59,083 --> 01:29:01,291
Like, if he called, I'd get
on the phone and I'd say,
1493
01:29:01,375 --> 01:29:03,458
"Hi, how are you?"
Blah, blah, blah.
1494
01:29:03,542 --> 01:29:06,709
We'd talk for a couple seconds,
but it's not like I...
1495
01:29:06,792 --> 01:29:09,166
you know, I didn't stay on the
phone with Michael for hours
1496
01:29:09,250 --> 01:29:12,375
or have big conversations,
my brother did that.
1497
01:29:12,458 --> 01:29:15,125
It was sort of,
he would call to talk to Wade.
1498
01:29:15,208 --> 01:29:17,667
He would talk to Wade
for sometimes
1499
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:20,667
six, seven hours at a time,
and I would say,
1500
01:29:20,750 --> 01:29:24,166
"What on Earth do you talk
about for all that time?"
1501
01:29:24,250 --> 01:29:25,709
I would try to listen,
1502
01:29:25,792 --> 01:29:27,959
but they seemed to be
very innocent phone calls.
1503
01:29:28,041 --> 01:29:30,792
He told me that I was gonna be
1504
01:29:30,875 --> 01:29:33,792
this massive film director,
1505
01:29:33,875 --> 01:29:36,125
you know,
bigger than Spielberg.
1506
01:29:36,208 --> 01:29:38,333
He was telling me to keep
working on my dancing,
1507
01:29:38,417 --> 01:29:39,875
keep training.
1508
01:29:39,959 --> 01:29:41,875
You know, you're gonna
come back out here soon,
1509
01:29:41,959 --> 01:29:44,208
and, you know,
you gotta be ready
1510
01:29:44,291 --> 01:29:48,500
for us to change the world.
1511
01:29:50,875 --> 01:29:54,166
If I was at school,
it was hard to focus on the work
1512
01:29:54,250 --> 01:29:57,625
'cause it was like,
when I got off of school, when I got home,
1513
01:29:57,709 --> 01:30:00,291
I was gonna get on the phone
with Michael Jackson.
1514
01:30:01,667 --> 01:30:03,750
He used to call me Apple Head.
1515
01:30:03,834 --> 01:30:08,208
Um, I would call him
Apple Head sometimes.
1516
01:30:08,291 --> 01:30:11,333
And then he started
calling me Little One.
1517
01:30:11,417 --> 01:30:15,625
I don't know where it came from,
but that became my...
1518
01:30:15,709 --> 01:30:18,625
my name from him, Little One.
1519
01:30:18,709 --> 01:30:23,709
It came with a song
that he would sing to me,
1520
01:30:23,792 --> 01:30:26,166
like this kind of lullaby.
1521
01:30:27,041 --> 01:30:30,667
Has anyone seen
my Little One?
1522
01:30:33,208 --> 01:30:34,750
And then he would sing,
1523
01:30:34,834 --> 01:30:37,125
My Little One is here
1524
01:30:37,875 --> 01:30:38,917
Yep.
1525
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:41,333
I mean, it just felt, um...
1526
01:30:43,083 --> 01:30:45,208
really, uh, cozy.
1527
01:30:45,291 --> 01:30:46,917
It felt really endearing.
1528
01:30:54,458 --> 01:30:58,750
And at some point,
we got a fax machine,
1529
01:30:58,834 --> 01:31:01,709
so we could communicate more.
1530
01:31:01,792 --> 01:31:04,166
If I'm not mistaken,
I think he bought it.
1531
01:31:04,250 --> 01:31:07,083
So, we were still having these
really long conversations,
1532
01:31:07,166 --> 01:31:09,834
but then now, there would be
these constant faxes,
1533
01:31:09,917 --> 01:31:12,333
back and forth,
you know, I love you, Wade.
1534
01:31:12,417 --> 01:31:14,041
I love you, Little One.
1535
01:31:14,125 --> 01:31:15,834
My best friend forever and...
1536
01:31:15,917 --> 01:31:19,041
all kinds of stuff like that,
and I would send stuff back,
1537
01:31:19,125 --> 01:31:21,291
telling him how much
I loved him.
1538
01:31:46,500 --> 01:31:48,250
We'd get home,
and the whole living room
1539
01:31:48,333 --> 01:31:52,417
would be filled faxes, like,
all over the floor, everywhere.
1540
01:31:54,041 --> 01:31:57,166
I felt like he and I
had a relationship
1541
01:31:57,250 --> 01:32:00,208
outside of his
relationship with Wade.
1542
01:32:01,083 --> 01:32:05,041
I felt like we had
something quite separate.
1543
01:32:06,834 --> 01:32:11,000
I guess like a brother
or a really close friend.
1544
01:32:11,083 --> 01:32:14,792
He'd get really lonely,
and we'd talk about that.
1545
01:32:15,875 --> 01:32:18,834
Michael, he used to ring her
all the time.
1546
01:32:18,917 --> 01:32:23,166
He was forever ever ringing her
and talking to her.
1547
01:32:23,250 --> 01:32:27,792
She turned her life upside down
because of Michael.
1548
01:32:29,500 --> 01:32:31,917
This separate relationship
1549
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,250
with Mom began.
1550
01:32:34,917 --> 01:32:37,166
I don't remember him
ever explicitly saying,
1551
01:32:37,250 --> 01:32:38,875
"Say hi to Dennis."
It would be like...
1552
01:32:38,959 --> 01:32:40,375
That's my Dad's name.
1553
01:32:40,458 --> 01:32:42,834
It would be either
the siblings or
1554
01:32:42,917 --> 01:32:46,000
"Say hi to the family,"
you know.
1555
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:52,875
He sent me back
with some memorabilia,
1556
01:32:52,959 --> 01:32:56,709
like clothing of his
that I could wear.
1557
01:32:56,792 --> 01:32:58,750
He gave me the hat,
1558
01:32:58,834 --> 01:33:01,166
the white fedora hat
that he wore in
1559
01:33:01,250 --> 01:33:03,250
the "Smooth Criminal"
music video.
1560
01:33:03,834 --> 01:33:06,166
I was just looking at this,
and he said, "Do you want it?"
1561
01:33:06,250 --> 01:33:10,583
And I said, "If you wanna give
it to me," and I said "Sure."
1562
01:33:10,667 --> 01:33:13,083
And, um,
1563
01:33:13,166 --> 01:33:17,667
He... This is the actual hat he used in the
"Smooth Criminal" clip,
1564
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:20,041
and it's still got
his makeup on it.
1565
01:33:20,125 --> 01:33:22,208
- See?
On the top here, yeah.
1566
01:33:22,291 --> 01:33:25,625
Just put it on, let's see how
you look in it. Let's see how...
1567
01:33:25,709 --> 01:33:28,583
Hey. Hey, that's pretty cool.
1568
01:33:28,667 --> 01:33:29,792
That's pretty cool.
1569
01:33:29,875 --> 01:33:31,709
And he gave me the gloves
1570
01:33:31,792 --> 01:33:36,041
that he wore in the "Bad" music video,
sort of buckled gloves.
1571
01:33:36,125 --> 01:33:38,917
So, I used to wear those
now when I'd perform.
1572
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,375
My whole life
was focused on him
1573
01:33:42,458 --> 01:33:45,125
and leading towards him.
1574
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:50,583
This kind of fantasy
began for me that...
1575
01:33:50,667 --> 01:33:54,083
that like, pretty soon, I was
gonna end up living with him.
1576
01:33:54,709 --> 01:33:56,625
You know, that I would
kind of be with him,
1577
01:33:56,709 --> 01:34:00,125
like a father and son,
for the rest of my life.
1578
01:34:00,208 --> 01:34:04,041
Basically, we were in limbo
waiting to come back.
1579
01:34:04,583 --> 01:34:07,208
And it took quite some
time before he actually
1580
01:34:07,291 --> 01:34:09,625
got around to bringing
us back again.
1581
01:34:09,709 --> 01:34:11,792
He was doing a photo shoot,
1582
01:34:11,875 --> 01:34:16,583
a campaign for
his new shoes for LA Gear.
1583
01:34:20,542 --> 01:34:22,667
And he saw that
as a great opportunity
1584
01:34:22,750 --> 01:34:26,041
to bring me out and to put me
in the campaign.
1585
01:34:27,041 --> 01:34:30,583
So, my mother removed me
out of school.
1586
01:34:30,667 --> 01:34:32,667
It turned into a six-week trip.
1587
01:34:32,750 --> 01:34:36,959
Our flights and everything
were paid for.
1588
01:34:44,417 --> 01:34:47,709
Los Angeles was
Michael Jackson for me.
1589
01:34:48,750 --> 01:34:52,667
And just being
so excited to be back in
1590
01:34:52,750 --> 01:34:55,500
what felt like, already, home,
1591
01:34:55,583 --> 01:34:59,542
like, where I'm supposed to be,
here and with him.
1592
01:35:01,083 --> 01:35:04,583
Also, anticipating
1593
01:35:04,667 --> 01:35:08,083
the physical contact again.
1594
01:35:08,917 --> 01:35:11,750
The sexual contact,
1595
01:35:11,834 --> 01:35:16,875
because that had become so...
1596
01:35:16,959 --> 01:35:22,208
intertwined with
what our relationship was
1597
01:35:22,291 --> 01:35:24,709
and what our love was.
1598
01:35:34,083 --> 01:35:38,834
I have some really,
really happy memories from Neverland.
1599
01:35:39,625 --> 01:35:41,166
We'd drive in,
1600
01:35:41,250 --> 01:35:44,083
and forget about everything
that was going on in your life,
1601
01:35:44,166 --> 01:35:46,000
forget about all your problems.
1602
01:35:46,083 --> 01:35:48,750
You were in Neverland.
1603
01:35:48,834 --> 01:35:50,917
It was a fantasy.
1604
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:54,333
He and Wade would avoid me.
1605
01:35:54,417 --> 01:35:56,250
I could tell
they were avoiding me.
1606
01:35:56,333 --> 01:35:59,250
You know, and it's a big place.
It's 2,700 acres,
1607
01:35:59,333 --> 01:36:01,125
and they'd take off
for the day,
1608
01:36:01,208 --> 01:36:04,250
and I'd spend all day looking
for them. Couldn't find them.
1609
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:08,208
So, I spent a lot of time alone
there, playing with the chimps.
1610
01:36:08,291 --> 01:36:11,500
We became good friends.
1611
01:36:13,125 --> 01:36:14,792
We were back and forth throughout the trip
1612
01:36:14,875 --> 01:36:19,250
between Neverland
and the Hideout in Westwood.
1613
01:36:19,333 --> 01:36:21,709
But, you know, my mother being
in a different room,
1614
01:36:21,792 --> 01:36:24,792
and Michael and I
sleeping in his bed.
1615
01:36:28,125 --> 01:36:30,917
The sexual contact continued
1616
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,333
every night we were together.
1617
01:36:36,709 --> 01:36:39,125
I guess it sort of
became a routine,
1618
01:36:39,208 --> 01:36:43,458
masturbating, the oral sex,
both sides,
1619
01:36:43,542 --> 01:36:45,166
and the touching,
and the fondling,
1620
01:36:45,250 --> 01:36:47,750
and the gyrating,
and the kissing.
1621
01:36:49,041 --> 01:36:51,041
Me bending over
with the masturbation,
1622
01:36:51,125 --> 01:36:52,959
and the tongue and all that.
1623
01:36:53,041 --> 01:36:57,417
And then one of the kind of newer
things that started to happen
1624
01:36:57,500 --> 01:37:02,709
was he started to show me
some pornography.
1625
01:37:03,667 --> 01:37:08,917
Pretty graphic,
heterosexual porn, um,
1626
01:37:10,041 --> 01:37:12,125
you know, oral sex,
1627
01:37:12,208 --> 01:37:13,875
full penetration,
1628
01:37:13,959 --> 01:37:15,792
uh, anal stuff.
1629
01:37:15,875 --> 01:37:19,542
It seemed like he liked it,
that Michael liked it,
1630
01:37:19,625 --> 01:37:21,875
so I wanted to like it.
1631
01:37:25,375 --> 01:37:29,750
It was the first time
he showed me some video porn.
1632
01:37:31,125 --> 01:37:33,417
And this was, you know,
full oral sex,
1633
01:37:33,500 --> 01:37:35,166
and ejaculation
1634
01:37:35,250 --> 01:37:39,041
in the mouth, on the face,
all that stuff. Full graphic.
1635
01:37:39,792 --> 01:37:43,291
I remember that
affecting me internally
1636
01:37:43,375 --> 01:37:47,500
even more than
the photographic porn.
1637
01:37:47,583 --> 01:37:50,834
I remember that feeling in my
stomach being really heavy,
1638
01:37:50,917 --> 01:37:52,959
like a nervousness.
1639
01:37:55,625 --> 01:37:58,834
I just didn't really know
how to deal with it, you know?
1640
01:37:58,917 --> 01:38:00,542
So, it was...
1641
01:38:00,625 --> 01:38:04,375
again, like, him pulling
back the curtain
1642
01:38:04,458 --> 01:38:07,709
on this whole other universe,
1643
01:38:07,792 --> 01:38:10,625
but this one wasn't
so fun, you know?
1644
01:38:13,667 --> 01:38:15,917
I was seven, you know?
1645
01:38:18,917 --> 01:38:22,917
He just came across
as a loving, caring, kind soul.
1646
01:38:24,333 --> 01:38:25,875
So...
1647
01:38:25,959 --> 01:38:30,125
it was easy to believe
that he was just that.
1648
01:38:31,917 --> 01:38:35,041
It was coming to...
time for us to leave,
1649
01:38:35,125 --> 01:38:36,583
to go back to Australia,
1650
01:38:36,667 --> 01:38:39,583
and I was at the Hideout
1651
01:38:39,667 --> 01:38:41,917
with Michael in Westwood.
1652
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:45,291
And Michael said to me,
1653
01:38:45,375 --> 01:38:47,667
"Will you leave Little One
1654
01:38:47,750 --> 01:38:49,750
with me for a year?"
1655
01:38:49,834 --> 01:38:52,583
I was on board with this.
1656
01:38:52,667 --> 01:38:54,542
I wanted to.
Are you kidding me?
1657
01:38:54,625 --> 01:38:56,750
Like, be able to live
with him for a year?
1658
01:38:56,834 --> 01:39:00,500
That's like the most
incredible idea I'd ever heard.
1659
01:39:01,166 --> 01:39:04,083
I was stunned, and said,
1660
01:39:04,166 --> 01:39:06,166
"Absolutely not."
1661
01:39:06,250 --> 01:39:09,417
He said, you know, "I would
do wonders for his career.
1662
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:10,959
"I could work with him.
1663
01:39:11,041 --> 01:39:14,041
"We could do so much together.
It would be absolutely wonderful
1664
01:39:14,125 --> 01:39:15,750
for him to stay here with me."
1665
01:39:15,834 --> 01:39:18,625
I said, "Michael, he's my child.
He's seven years old.
1666
01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:20,709
I am not gonna
leave him with you."
1667
01:39:20,792 --> 01:39:22,834
And a sort of, like...
1668
01:39:23,792 --> 01:39:27,125
a tug of war started
between Mom and Michael.
1669
01:39:27,208 --> 01:39:29,875
We went through this
for a couple of hours,
1670
01:39:29,959 --> 01:39:34,959
where I tried to explain to him
that it wasn't going to happen.
1671
01:39:35,041 --> 01:39:37,834
And after it was all over,
he looked at me and he said,
1672
01:39:37,917 --> 01:39:40,417
"I always get what I want."
1673
01:39:42,041 --> 01:39:44,500
And I said, "Not this time."
1674
01:39:45,125 --> 01:39:47,625
I said,
"I will share Wade with you,
1675
01:39:47,709 --> 01:39:50,542
but I am not going
to leave him with you."
1676
01:39:50,625 --> 01:39:52,583
Michael asked...
1677
01:39:53,458 --> 01:39:56,542
like, "Well, okay,
then you've gotta let me...
1678
01:39:57,792 --> 01:40:00,166
"have him for, you know,
1679
01:40:00,250 --> 01:40:02,959
"four or five more days,
a few more days,
1680
01:40:03,041 --> 01:40:07,458
"to prepare him to leave."
1681
01:40:07,542 --> 01:40:11,750
I remember at some point
getting a phone call and, uh...
1682
01:40:12,583 --> 01:40:15,625
Mom saying, "Oh, we're gonna
stay longer." You know?
1683
01:40:16,291 --> 01:40:18,417
And I was like,
what the hell is going on?
1684
01:40:18,500 --> 01:40:20,333
You know, pretty...
1685
01:40:20,417 --> 01:40:23,000
kind of disturbing when
your mom and brother just,
1686
01:40:23,083 --> 01:40:25,250
you don't know when
they're gonna come back.
1687
01:40:25,709 --> 01:40:27,917
He really amped up...
1688
01:40:30,041 --> 01:40:33,583
the dialogue
and the lectures about...
1689
01:40:35,625 --> 01:40:38,709
being strong and being...
1690
01:40:38,792 --> 01:40:42,709
learning to shelve my feelings.
1691
01:40:42,792 --> 01:40:45,667
He always said that. "You gotta
learn to shelve your feelings,
1692
01:40:45,750 --> 01:40:48,166
so you're not vulnerable."
1693
01:40:48,250 --> 01:40:52,875
In hindsight, I know, I mean,
just how much of my life,
1694
01:40:52,959 --> 01:40:57,125
in every way shape or form,
that affected, you know?
1695
01:40:57,208 --> 01:40:59,083
Hello, Wade.
1696
01:40:59,166 --> 01:41:01,291
Congratulations, Little One.
1697
01:41:01,375 --> 01:41:03,333
Today is your birthday.
1698
01:41:03,417 --> 01:41:05,000
I don't celebrate
birthdays, of course,
1699
01:41:05,083 --> 01:41:08,583
but I thought I would take this
moment to say congratulations
1700
01:41:08,667 --> 01:41:10,583
on the day that you were born,
1701
01:41:10,667 --> 01:41:12,583
and in my opinion,
you should spend this day
1702
01:41:12,667 --> 01:41:15,291
with your mother and your
father, who conceived you,
1703
01:41:15,375 --> 01:41:17,583
and you should be giving
them the presents,
1704
01:41:17,667 --> 01:41:21,333
uh, and being thankful that
they brought you into the world.
1705
01:41:21,417 --> 01:41:25,250
And the future is yours and
you can do whatever you want.
1706
01:41:25,333 --> 01:41:27,542
So, congratulations.
1707
01:41:27,625 --> 01:41:29,667
I love you. Goodbye.
1708
01:41:34,792 --> 01:41:37,375
Things started to...
1709
01:41:38,291 --> 01:41:41,041
change with my father.
1710
01:41:41,125 --> 01:41:42,500
My consciousness was just
1711
01:41:42,583 --> 01:41:45,417
so full with Michael
that there was
1712
01:41:45,500 --> 01:41:49,875
less and less of my attention
and consciousness for my dad.
1713
01:41:52,166 --> 01:41:55,500
He enjoyed what Wade was doing.
He loved it.
1714
01:41:55,583 --> 01:41:59,375
And I think he would've liked to
have been more of a part of it, too,
1715
01:41:59,458 --> 01:42:01,709
but I think I sort of
pushed him out.
1716
01:42:01,792 --> 01:42:04,083
Wade was doing
a lot in Australia,
1717
01:42:04,166 --> 01:42:06,291
and I was more or less
managing
1718
01:42:06,375 --> 01:42:09,250
what he was doing there,
and I enjoyed that.
1719
01:42:09,333 --> 01:42:12,291
And it just took us
into a different world,
1720
01:42:12,375 --> 01:42:15,208
and Dennis was sort
of excluded from it.
1721
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:20,250
So, it did affect the marriage.
1722
01:42:21,834 --> 01:42:23,750
Dennis was always there in the background,
1723
01:42:23,834 --> 01:42:26,125
and he went to it
as much as he could,
1724
01:42:26,208 --> 01:42:30,375
but being in business, it was
hard for him always to be away.
1725
01:42:30,458 --> 01:42:32,709
She put Wade first,
1726
01:42:32,792 --> 01:42:35,709
taking him to places
where he danced.
1727
01:42:35,792 --> 01:42:38,250
It was a big thing for her.
1728
01:42:38,333 --> 01:42:41,875
My mother and his relationship
1729
01:42:41,959 --> 01:42:44,291
was changing.
1730
01:42:44,375 --> 01:42:47,917
Over the next year or so,
1731
01:42:50,625 --> 01:42:53,417
he started having
all sorts of, um...
1732
01:42:56,166 --> 01:42:58,834
I don't know, emotional trouble
1733
01:42:58,917 --> 01:43:00,917
and anxieties.
1734
01:43:02,125 --> 01:43:06,417
And he was diagnosed
with bipolar disorder.
1735
01:43:06,959 --> 01:43:09,542
I have memories of my dad
fighting with my mom,
1736
01:43:09,625 --> 01:43:12,709
and I remember my dad
at one point saying,
1737
01:43:12,792 --> 01:43:15,250
you know,
"You're talking to lawyers,
1738
01:43:15,333 --> 01:43:17,667
and you're trying to get out
of here. I know you are."
1739
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:20,917
Wade J. Robson!
1740
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:23,583
Wade had been working
1741
01:43:23,667 --> 01:43:24,959
pretty regularly in Australia,
1742
01:43:25,041 --> 01:43:29,333
but there was only just
so far he could go there.
1743
01:43:29,417 --> 01:43:31,250
He could be the big fish
in the small pond,
1744
01:43:31,333 --> 01:43:33,792
but I felt if he was
really going to succeed,
1745
01:43:33,875 --> 01:43:37,250
he needed to move
to the United States.
1746
01:43:45,250 --> 01:43:48,041
So, this was happening
1747
01:43:48,125 --> 01:43:50,208
at the same time that
1748
01:43:50,291 --> 01:43:55,375
my father's, kind of,
mental and emotional health
1749
01:43:55,458 --> 01:43:57,458
was really declining.
1750
01:44:01,458 --> 01:44:04,667
His mood being
more unpredictable.
1751
01:44:04,750 --> 01:44:07,750
It's like he was
just like drifting
1752
01:44:07,834 --> 01:44:10,166
further and further
away from me.
1753
01:44:11,583 --> 01:44:15,500
It kind of became like the Wade and Mom Show.
1754
01:44:15,583 --> 01:44:19,458
That's when I really noticed
Dad starting to go downhill,
1755
01:44:19,542 --> 01:44:22,041
you know, with his mental state.
1756
01:44:24,250 --> 01:44:28,750
She definitely was not the mom
that I grew up with at that point.
1757
01:44:28,834 --> 01:44:34,166
She was very determined
to go on this, this new life.
1758
01:44:35,834 --> 01:44:38,959
It wasn't so much about
the family anymore.
1759
01:44:39,041 --> 01:44:41,083
You know, it was about...
1760
01:44:41,166 --> 01:44:45,250
getting over there, starting
this new opportunity for...
1761
01:44:45,333 --> 01:44:47,583
for Wade, which, you know,
1762
01:44:47,667 --> 01:44:50,750
in reality was opportunity
for Mom as well.
1763
01:44:50,834 --> 01:44:54,000
And when I kind of look
at things in perspective,
1764
01:44:54,083 --> 01:44:56,083
it was probably Mom's chance,
1765
01:44:56,166 --> 01:44:59,792
the easiest way for her to,
maybe, get out of her marriage.
1766
01:44:59,875 --> 01:45:02,333
And I had a diary that had a...
1767
01:45:02,417 --> 01:45:05,625
just a quote for every day.
1768
01:45:05,709 --> 01:45:08,250
And it said something like,
"Today is the first day
1769
01:45:08,333 --> 01:45:10,625
of the rest of your life,"
something like that.
1770
01:45:10,709 --> 01:45:12,959
And suddenly I thought, you
know what, I'm just gonna go.
1771
01:45:13,041 --> 01:45:15,709
I'm not gonna wait any longer.
1772
01:45:15,792 --> 01:45:19,125
Michael,
he encouraged her to go over there.
1773
01:45:19,208 --> 01:45:21,041
Yes, it was his decision.
1774
01:45:21,125 --> 01:45:23,709
He made the arrangements
for where they could stay
1775
01:45:23,792 --> 01:45:26,875
when they got there.
He did all that.
1776
01:45:26,959 --> 01:45:28,667
And, uh...
1777
01:45:28,750 --> 01:45:31,000
Yes, he was to blame.
1778
01:45:32,208 --> 01:45:34,417
He's to blame
for a lot of things
1779
01:45:34,500 --> 01:45:36,709
that happened in our life.
1780
01:45:40,417 --> 01:45:41,834
I had a choice,
1781
01:45:41,917 --> 01:45:45,250
but it was sort of obvious
that I was going with my mom.
1782
01:45:45,875 --> 01:45:50,542
And I remember my dad just saying,
"Please don't leave," to me.
1783
01:45:50,625 --> 01:45:53,125
And...
1784
01:45:53,208 --> 01:45:56,000
he said, "Please don't go.
Stay with me."
1785
01:45:56,083 --> 01:45:59,500
And I remember saying,
"Dad, just don't ask me that."
1786
01:45:59,583 --> 01:46:02,250
Like, "Dad, don't...
don't make me choose."
1787
01:46:02,333 --> 01:46:04,750
Like, that it was just obvious
1788
01:46:04,834 --> 01:46:07,333
that I was going
with Mom, you know?
1789
01:46:07,417 --> 01:46:12,458
Beyond whatever was
going on with him mentally,
1790
01:46:12,542 --> 01:46:16,208
almost his whole family
was about to leave him.
1791
01:46:16,291 --> 01:46:18,834
I'm sure, for my father,
1792
01:46:18,917 --> 01:46:22,125
it felt like, you know,
there's no way...
1793
01:46:22,208 --> 01:46:24,959
we're ever coming back.
1794
01:46:35,125 --> 01:46:39,834
I used to have dreams or
nightmares of my family dying.
1795
01:46:39,917 --> 01:46:43,041
And I remember
going to Brisbane Airport.
1796
01:46:43,125 --> 01:46:47,083
I remember my...
my grandmother, my Mom's mom,
1797
01:46:47,166 --> 01:46:49,542
like, standing at the window.
1798
01:46:49,625 --> 01:46:52,625
She was just, like,
moaning and crying.
1799
01:46:54,792 --> 01:46:59,125
I remember being at the airport with Dennis.
1800
01:46:59,959 --> 01:47:04,041
It was so sad to see them
all going on the plane,
1801
01:47:04,125 --> 01:47:08,041
knowing that they...
we wouldn't just be able to...
1802
01:47:08,125 --> 01:47:12,000
pick up our bag,
and go and visit them.
1803
01:47:12,083 --> 01:47:15,375
No. Yeah, it was sad.
1804
01:47:16,375 --> 01:47:19,458
Shane
Dad was just...
1805
01:47:19,542 --> 01:47:21,959
I think he was crying,
but he was just...
1806
01:47:22,041 --> 01:47:24,500
he wasn't really there.
1807
01:47:25,500 --> 01:47:26,834
Yeah.
1808
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:31,375
Yeah, that was a tough day.
1809
01:47:34,834 --> 01:47:36,834
You know, they were excited.
They were going off on...
1810
01:47:36,917 --> 01:47:39,333
on a big adventure, so...
1811
01:47:41,375 --> 01:47:43,750
Yeah, I guess that
was really, like,
1812
01:47:43,834 --> 01:47:46,667
the end of the family. Yeah.
1813
01:47:59,041 --> 01:48:00,834
Sorry.
1814
01:48:02,083 --> 01:48:04,583
I left my eldest son Shane,
1815
01:48:06,250 --> 01:48:08,792
my husband, my parents,
1816
01:48:08,875 --> 01:48:11,625
two brothers, cousins,
1817
01:48:11,709 --> 01:48:13,250
big family.
1818
01:48:15,083 --> 01:48:17,375
And, funny, at the time,
1819
01:48:18,625 --> 01:48:20,709
I really did not think
1820
01:48:20,792 --> 01:48:23,125
about any of
the long-term ramifications.
1821
01:48:23,208 --> 01:48:26,041
I was so caught up
in everything.
1822
01:48:27,083 --> 01:48:30,250
I remember my father looking me
in the eye at the airport,
1823
01:48:30,333 --> 01:48:32,667
and he said,
"Have you lost your mind?"
1824
01:48:32,750 --> 01:48:35,792
And that has stayed
with me for 26 years,
1825
01:48:35,875 --> 01:48:38,625
'cause there's many times
I look back and think,
1826
01:48:38,709 --> 01:48:40,875
yes, I think I had.
1827
01:49:01,250 --> 01:49:05,250
You know,
I definitely had some sort of...
1828
01:49:06,458 --> 01:49:10,125
idea in my head of
1829
01:49:10,208 --> 01:49:14,500
the way...
this was all gonna go down
1830
01:49:14,583 --> 01:49:16,417
once we moved to Los Angeles,
1831
01:49:16,500 --> 01:49:20,333
that it really was going
to be life with Michael.
1832
01:49:22,959 --> 01:49:27,375
So, I remember being shocked
1833
01:49:27,458 --> 01:49:30,041
when the first place
we went to live
1834
01:49:30,125 --> 01:49:32,709
was like in Oakwood Apartments,
1835
01:49:32,792 --> 01:49:36,458
which is kind of like a part-time
residence sort of thing.
1836
01:49:38,375 --> 01:49:40,834
And it was...
1837
01:49:42,166 --> 01:49:45,041
at least a week,
maybe a couple of weeks,
1838
01:49:45,125 --> 01:49:48,333
after we moved
before I saw Michael.
1839
01:49:50,041 --> 01:49:53,208
And that was
really hard for me.
1840
01:49:53,291 --> 01:49:57,083
Here I was, in this new place,
in America, and in Los Angeles,
1841
01:49:57,166 --> 01:49:59,875
but now it's like
we were alone.
1842
01:50:02,333 --> 01:50:05,250
I knew straightaway
that things were different.
1843
01:50:05,333 --> 01:50:09,917
First up, when we got there, they said
that the Oakwood had not been paid for.
1844
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:12,500
I needed to give them
a credit card.
1845
01:50:12,583 --> 01:50:14,709
And I'm like, "No."
1846
01:50:14,792 --> 01:50:16,667
They said, "Well, you have
to give me a credit card
1847
01:50:16,750 --> 01:50:18,917
till we can sort
it out tonight."
1848
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:21,083
And that was unusual for them.
1849
01:50:21,166 --> 01:50:23,542
They usually had us
pretty well looked after.
1850
01:50:23,625 --> 01:50:26,542
Michael had talked
about bringing him
1851
01:50:26,625 --> 01:50:28,458
to do the "Black or White"
video.
1852
01:50:28,542 --> 01:50:32,291
And then they called and said,
"We're going to rent you a car,
1853
01:50:32,375 --> 01:50:35,000
so that you can drive
yourself to the studios,"
1854
01:50:35,083 --> 01:50:38,250
which was unusual as well.
1855
01:50:39,709 --> 01:50:43,458
Um... And then, when we got
to the studios to do this,
1856
01:50:43,542 --> 01:50:45,291
then we realized why.
1857
01:50:49,542 --> 01:50:51,417
I believe the first time
1858
01:50:51,500 --> 01:50:54,542
we saw each other
after we moved
1859
01:50:54,625 --> 01:50:57,000
was his "Black or White"
music video,
1860
01:50:57,083 --> 01:50:58,709
which I was gonna dance in.
1861
01:51:00,875 --> 01:51:04,083
That experience was
really hard for me.
1862
01:51:06,917 --> 01:51:09,625
Turn that noise off!
1863
01:51:09,709 --> 01:51:12,291
This was the first time
1864
01:51:12,375 --> 01:51:15,583
I came up against
the new friend,
1865
01:51:15,667 --> 01:51:17,583
Macaulay Culkin.
1866
01:51:18,375 --> 01:51:21,000
Macaulay was where I was,
1867
01:51:21,083 --> 01:51:23,834
you know, on my previous trips.
1868
01:51:23,917 --> 01:51:27,625
Right by Michael's side,
every moment.
1869
01:51:32,917 --> 01:51:34,667
Okay.
1870
01:51:34,750 --> 01:51:39,417
And now,
I was kind of on the sideline, as far as...
1871
01:51:39,500 --> 01:51:41,333
being Michael's friend,
1872
01:51:41,417 --> 01:51:43,125
you know,
and being his favorite,
1873
01:51:43,208 --> 01:51:47,208
and that was really confusing.
1874
01:51:49,041 --> 01:51:51,250
What did I do wrong?
1875
01:51:51,333 --> 01:51:55,333
Like, he and Michael
had all of the connection
1876
01:51:55,417 --> 01:51:59,041
and kind of secret things that
1877
01:51:59,125 --> 01:52:01,000
Michael and I had before.
1878
01:52:01,083 --> 01:52:03,542
Like, I could recognize that.
1879
01:52:03,625 --> 01:52:06,000
So, there was definitely
a lot of, there was jealousy
1880
01:52:06,083 --> 01:52:09,041
from me. I mean,
hurt, confusion.
1881
01:52:09,125 --> 01:52:11,500
It was very obvious to me
1882
01:52:11,583 --> 01:52:14,500
that Macaulay had taken
Wade's place in Michael's
1883
01:52:14,583 --> 01:52:16,875
"best friend" category.
1884
01:52:17,458 --> 01:52:21,792
So, that was very hurtful,
it broke Wade's heart.
1885
01:52:21,875 --> 01:52:26,291
But it made me realize that
if things were gonna happen,
1886
01:52:26,375 --> 01:52:29,625
we have to get busy
and do it ourselves.
1887
01:52:40,750 --> 01:52:43,959
By then,
I wasn't really hanging around him much.
1888
01:52:44,041 --> 01:52:47,500
It was more like he would
call every few months.
1889
01:52:49,166 --> 01:52:54,333
At Neverland, we were able
to go up whenever we wanted.
1890
01:52:54,417 --> 01:52:56,542
And then we'd be able to go up,
1891
01:52:56,625 --> 01:53:00,250
and they'd have all the cooks
and everybody there.
1892
01:53:00,333 --> 01:53:02,834
So, it was like our
sort of vacation home.
1893
01:53:02,917 --> 01:53:05,625
Thank you!
Cool!
1894
01:53:08,834 --> 01:53:10,625
Brian!
Thanks.
1895
01:53:10,709 --> 01:53:12,834
Happy birthday!
- Thanks.
1896
01:53:15,166 --> 01:53:19,166
And at the same time,
he started introducing alcohol.
1897
01:53:23,875 --> 01:53:27,959
Michael also had
a place in Century City,
1898
01:53:28,041 --> 01:53:29,792
near the Avenue of the Stars.
1899
01:53:29,875 --> 01:53:33,000
So, you'd go over
for the weekend,
1900
01:53:33,083 --> 01:53:35,291
and he'd buy
a big jug of wine,
1901
01:53:35,375 --> 01:53:38,875
and I remember
getting really drunk.
1902
01:53:39,875 --> 01:53:41,583
I was falling over.
1903
01:53:41,667 --> 01:53:45,333
And he would put porn on,
like, in the bathtub.
1904
01:53:45,417 --> 01:53:47,959
He had these little TVs,
and you could watch...
1905
01:53:48,041 --> 01:53:50,834
you could watch porn
wherever you wanted.
1906
01:53:50,917 --> 01:53:53,583
Porn and candy, that was...
1907
01:53:57,625 --> 01:53:59,500
That's what he had.
1908
01:54:03,417 --> 01:54:06,500
It got more dirty sexual,
1909
01:54:06,583 --> 01:54:09,959
rather than, like,
friends who were,
1910
01:54:10,041 --> 01:54:11,834
like, touching each other.
1911
01:54:11,917 --> 01:54:15,208
That was probably
because I was getting
1912
01:54:15,291 --> 01:54:17,917
to be a teenager.
1913
01:54:19,333 --> 01:54:23,291
Like, he wanted to do
some anal.
1914
01:54:24,291 --> 01:54:26,375
He put his finger...
1915
01:54:26,458 --> 01:54:30,250
inside me, and I didn't
like it at all.
1916
01:54:31,417 --> 01:54:32,583
Um...
1917
01:54:33,583 --> 01:54:36,250
So, he kind of
backed off on that.
1918
01:54:38,125 --> 01:54:42,000
I think I was just like,
kind of wincing and...
1919
01:54:42,083 --> 01:54:44,125
I was asking him not to do it,
1920
01:54:44,208 --> 01:54:47,417
but he did it, and he said,
"Oh, you'll like it."
1921
01:54:48,959 --> 01:54:51,250
But we continued
with all the other stuff.
1922
01:54:54,375 --> 01:54:56,667
He was preparing me
1923
01:54:56,750 --> 01:54:59,667
over a long period of time
for other kids to enter.
1924
01:55:00,250 --> 01:55:02,041
He would say like,
"You're gonna start seeing me
1925
01:55:02,125 --> 01:55:03,917
"with so and so, and...
1926
01:55:04,333 --> 01:55:06,583
that doesn't mean
I don't love you."
1927
01:55:06,667 --> 01:55:08,333
We went up for the weekend,
1928
01:55:08,417 --> 01:55:11,208
and Michael showed up
with another family
1929
01:55:11,291 --> 01:55:13,542
and a young boy.
1930
01:55:13,625 --> 01:55:14,959
It reminded me of us.
1931
01:55:15,041 --> 01:55:17,500
My husband and I
came in and said hi,
1932
01:55:17,583 --> 01:55:19,917
and they were zipped-mouthed,
1933
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:21,291
just like we were.
1934
01:55:21,375 --> 01:55:25,625
I could tell they had been...
had the talks we had.
1935
01:55:25,709 --> 01:55:27,417
"You don't talk to strangers.
1936
01:55:27,500 --> 01:55:30,667
Everybody wants to be your
friend just to get to me."
1937
01:55:30,750 --> 01:55:33,083
So, the people were
very standoffish,
1938
01:55:33,166 --> 01:55:35,166
and I thought,
we're in Michael's home!
1939
01:55:35,250 --> 01:55:37,625
Jeez, they could be
a little friendly.
1940
01:55:52,792 --> 01:55:54,750
There's one particular boy
1941
01:55:54,834 --> 01:55:58,959
who sort of entered
and replaced me.
1942
01:55:59,041 --> 01:56:03,500
And so, I saw him grow closer
and closer to that boy,
1943
01:56:03,583 --> 01:56:07,417
and I was...
pushed out more and more.
1944
01:56:07,500 --> 01:56:10,291
And that was really
difficult to handle.
1945
01:56:10,375 --> 01:56:13,875
There was like a lot
of jealousy and hurt.
1946
01:56:15,166 --> 01:56:17,375
You're no longer...
1947
01:56:19,917 --> 01:56:21,291
special.
1948
01:56:25,375 --> 01:56:27,458
One specific night
that was really tough,
1949
01:56:27,542 --> 01:56:31,458
and it was at
Avenue of the Stars.
1950
01:56:31,542 --> 01:56:34,583
You know, spending the night
there and the boy was there.
1951
01:56:36,333 --> 01:56:38,792
The boy would sleep
in Michael's room,
1952
01:56:38,875 --> 01:56:41,834
and then I would sleep
downstairs on the sofa.
1953
01:56:42,625 --> 01:56:45,083
It was like being cast out.
1954
01:56:45,709 --> 01:56:47,458
And it was...
1955
01:56:47,542 --> 01:56:51,166
It was like a realization
that, like, okay, it's...
1956
01:56:51,250 --> 01:56:53,542
I'm not number one.
1957
01:56:54,083 --> 01:56:56,208
And I just wanted to go home.
1958
01:56:56,291 --> 01:56:58,208
And so I cried and cried,
1959
01:56:58,291 --> 01:57:00,500
and I cried out for my mom,
1960
01:57:00,583 --> 01:57:03,583
and I just cried myself
to sleep. So, it was like...
1961
01:57:05,125 --> 01:57:08,458
the first night it really hit.
1962
01:57:08,542 --> 01:57:11,667
Michael was my, like, partner,
and then he's gone?
1963
01:57:11,750 --> 01:57:14,333
And then, you're not close
to anybody else,
1964
01:57:14,417 --> 01:57:17,542
so it's like then,
you're just alone.
1965
01:57:17,625 --> 01:57:20,041
And you can't talk
to anybody about anything,
1966
01:57:20,125 --> 01:57:23,792
so you just continue
to be alone.
1967
01:57:32,417 --> 01:57:36,917
I would say, like,
in that first year of living in LA,
1968
01:57:37,000 --> 01:57:41,417
that I saw him maybe
four to six times,
1969
01:57:41,500 --> 01:57:43,709
either at his
Century City apartment
1970
01:57:43,792 --> 01:57:46,625
or back at Neverland.
1971
01:57:46,709 --> 01:57:49,458
The sexual stuff would
happen every night.
1972
01:57:49,792 --> 01:57:53,709
So, every time that it
was just he and I again,
1973
01:57:53,792 --> 01:57:56,625
and the sexual stuff
would happen again,
1974
01:57:56,709 --> 01:57:59,291
like, it made me feel
a little better.
1975
01:57:59,375 --> 01:58:01,709
It made me feel like
1976
01:58:01,792 --> 01:58:04,709
that things were okay again,
and things were back to normal,
1977
01:58:04,792 --> 01:58:08,750
and that feeling didn't
stay for long
1978
01:58:08,834 --> 01:58:14,417
'cause I would keep coming
up against scenarios
1979
01:58:14,500 --> 01:58:17,667
where there was another boy.
1980
01:58:18,375 --> 01:58:21,166
We love Michael!
We love Michael!
1981
01:58:21,250 --> 01:58:23,917
They've been waiting for
three days to see their hero,
1982
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:25,917
and when the moment came,
it was the type of
1983
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:30,333
bizarre appearance you'd expect
from a man they call Wacko Jacko.
1984
01:58:30,417 --> 01:58:33,125
The pop-star seemed
to be playing hide-and-seek.
1985
01:58:34,750 --> 01:58:37,834
Joined by his traveling companion
and nine-year-old cousin,
1986
01:58:37,917 --> 01:58:41,375
he began throwing items
to his admirers below.
1987
01:58:41,458 --> 01:58:44,750
Great joy from the
33-year-old multimillionaire
1988
01:58:44,834 --> 01:58:48,083
as youngsters below scrapped
for presents from their god.
1989
01:58:48,166 --> 01:58:50,959
During that Dangerous tour,
when Michael took
1990
01:58:51,041 --> 01:58:52,792
Brett Barnes
on the tour with him...
1991
01:58:54,625 --> 01:58:57,125
...Wade had asked
to go on the tour,
1992
01:58:57,208 --> 01:58:59,000
and Michael had told
him no, he couldn't go
1993
01:58:59,083 --> 01:59:02,625
because he wasn't allowed
to take children on this tour.
1994
01:59:02,709 --> 01:59:07,041
And then he saw Brett Barnes
with him on television.
1995
01:59:09,417 --> 01:59:11,458
I don't think he liked to mix us.
1996
01:59:11,542 --> 01:59:14,959
I mean, he liked to keep
these relationships separate.
1997
01:59:15,041 --> 01:59:18,750
Remember it being particularly
hard with Brett because...
1998
01:59:18,834 --> 01:59:21,542
I found out, and I knew,
that he was Australian.
1999
01:59:22,375 --> 01:59:24,583
"Oh, it's a new Australian boy,"
2000
01:59:24,667 --> 01:59:26,959
I was, like, really
feeling replaced.
2001
01:59:40,291 --> 01:59:42,917
Please remain seated at all times.
2002
01:59:48,500 --> 01:59:51,208
Michael had told him that he would call him.
2003
01:59:51,750 --> 01:59:54,000
And he... that little boy
would come home every day
2004
01:59:54,083 --> 01:59:56,458
and sit on the couch,
and wait for that phone call.
2005
01:59:56,542 --> 01:59:58,166
It just didn't come,
he wasn't calling.
2006
01:59:58,250 --> 02:00:01,041
And it just broke
my heart to see
2007
02:00:01,125 --> 02:00:03,709
him waiting for that call.
2008
02:00:06,375 --> 02:00:08,959
All of the dreams
2009
02:00:09,041 --> 02:00:12,000
and plans that Michael was
2010
02:00:12,083 --> 02:00:16,709
selling me and my mother from...
2011
02:00:16,792 --> 02:00:18,750
you know, day one
of that first trip.
2012
02:00:18,834 --> 02:00:22,083
This partnership
we were gonna have
2013
02:00:22,166 --> 02:00:25,959
didn't seem to be, like,
something that was gonna really happen.
2014
02:00:27,125 --> 02:00:29,959
After a while,
I realized there was a pattern.
2015
02:00:30,041 --> 02:00:34,542
Every 12 months,
there was a new boy in his life.
2016
02:00:35,305 --> 02:00:41,172
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