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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,230 [Bobby] When I tell people my story 2 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,880 they don't believe it. 3 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,638 I guess I wouldn't believe the story 4 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,310 if someone else were telling it, but, I'm telling it 5 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,318 and it's true, every word of it. 6 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,150 Il started when I was born, 56 years ago, 7 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,716 but the real story began when I was 19 years old 8 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,558 and I went to college. 9 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,116 [I RAINBOW: "Since You've Been Gone] 10 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,754 [Bobby] It was 1980. ll was the firs! day 01 school 11 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,872 at Sullivan County Community College up in the Catskills, 12 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,036 about 110 miles from where I grew up. 13 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,037 So, I drove up there alone. 14 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,310 I I gel the same old dreams 15 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,317 I Same time every night 16 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,078 I Fall (o the ground and I wake up... 17 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,431 I used to have this really old car. ll was a Volvo. 18 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,553 And it was a 1970 Volvo. 19 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,750 Had like 130,000 miles on it. 20 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,553 And the car was burgundy and the hood was green. 21 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,910 Actually, (he car was called the Old Bitch. 22 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,951 I Since you been gone 23 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,037 I Since you been gone 24 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,514 I I'm out of my head... J“ 25 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,315 But the Old Bitch got me there. 26 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,352 Sullivan was a community college. 27 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,598 This wasn't some longstanding institution of higher learning. 28 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,713 All these station wagons are dropping kids off. 29 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,671 I was nervous, I'd just gotten to the school, 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,679 I didn't know anybody. I was a freshman. 31 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,076 I was never the captain of the football team in high school, 32 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,551 so I was never really like popular. 33 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,479 So, I'm walking around trying to find where my dorm is. 34 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,636 Meanwhile all these people are coming up to me 35 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,079 saying "Hi, how are you?" 36 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:41,995 "How was your summer?" 37 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,917 "Mine was great. How was yours?" "Super." 38 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,917 Why are they asking me how my summer was? I don! know. 39 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,271 Everybodfs being extremely friendly to me 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,833 and they're going out of their way to do it. 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,678 I don't mean just a 'hi', 42 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,109 I mean, claps on the hack and high fives. 43 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,915 And I was a little hit bewildered by this 44 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,554 because no one gets this kind of a welcome 45 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,829 on their firs! day at school. 46 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,510 And girls were kissing me, 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,793 like fully kissing me saying, "I'm so glad you came hack." 48 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,797 And I was saying 'thank you' and 'hello' back 49 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,315 but I had never been (here before and I didn't know them. 50 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,839 L! was bizarre. 51 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,679 And the next thing I heard from right behind me. 52 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,236 'Welcome back. Eddy!" 53 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,590 "Eddy! How are you'! Eddy, hi!" 54 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,074 I'm like, "My name's not Eddy. I don't know 55 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,077 'what you're talking about. I just got up here." 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,633 "Sure, Eddy, you're really funny, 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,159 'you're really funny, real funny." 58 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,316 I'm like, "I'm not Eddy. I don't know who Eddy is." 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,876 'Welcome hack, Eddy", they were all saying. 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,959 I finally made it to this dump of a dorm room. 61 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,320 Before a minute had gone by... 62 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,714 [Knock on door] 63 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,593 ..."Who now? Who now is gonna come to find Eddy?" 64 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,039 I had been at college 65 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,117 the previous year with Eddy, and I knew 66 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,629 that he wasn't coming back to school. 67 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,275 [Knock on door] 68 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,072 As soon as this guy turned around, I... 69 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,839 I was, I was actually shaking. 70 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,669 I was... I know all color from my face dropped 71 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,597 cos I knew it was his double. 72 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,909 He had the same grin, the same hair, the same expressions. 73 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,031 It was his double. 74 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,835 And I see this guy's face and he's like... 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,477 ...just standing there. 76 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,549 The first thing out of my mouth was 'Were you adopted?" 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,750 Er... and I was like, "Yes." 78 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,397 lsaid, "ls your birthday July 12th?" He. said yes. 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,954 I was like, "July 12th 1961." 80 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,150 "Oh my God", I said, "You're no! gonna believe this." 81 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,840 I said, "You have a twin brother. You have a twin." 82 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,316 "Oh my God." 83 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,113 I said. "Come with me." 84 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,039 And the two of us are crammed into (h is phone booth. 85 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,754 Shoulder to shoulder and you know, we had to like, 86 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:04,995 close the door of the phone booth. 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,950 And I'm trying to put the coins in 88 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,320 and they keep falling on the floor 89 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,354 and Bobby's picking up (he coins. 90 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,959 And he calls this guy and he's like, 91 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,434 "Hey, Eddy, you're not gonna believe this, 92 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,709 "you're not gonna believe this. 93 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,034 "Eddy, Eddy, you are not gonna believe this." 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,675 This guy's more hysterical than I am like weirded out. 95 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:25,875 "Eddy, you are not gonna believe this." 96 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,194 So I was like, "Give me the phone." 97 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,311 So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?" "Yes." 98 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,718 But it was my voice that said, "Yes." 99 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,355 And I said, "Hi, Eddy, my name is Robert Shafran 100 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,397 "and, er... I'm meeting all these people 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,999 "who say I'm you." 102 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,156 And he said, “Uh-huh, yeah, I've been getting some calls." 103 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,353 I said, "Were you adopted?" and he said, "Yes." 104 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,516 And I said, "When was your birthday?" 105 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,278 "July 12th." 106 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,357 And I said, "Do you know what the name of the agency was?" 107 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,994 And he said, "No, hold on." 108 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,758 And I heard him go like, "Mom?" 109 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:07,516 And he came hack and he said, "Louise Wise Services." 110 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,669 Sometimes when you are just having a dream, 111 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,075 you know this can'! be real, this can't be real. 112 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,509 But you know (here's nothing you can do to slop it, 113 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,392 start it, change it, you just go with it 114 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:19,834 and that's what I was doing. 115 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,757 I just wanted to see what was gonna happen next. 116 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,396 Nu'. I'm “he, “his go. Let's gamed Eddy!' 117 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,909 [I Rock music] 118 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,917 So we gm into the Old Bitch. 119 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,995 [Revs engine] 120 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,117 It was about 9 o'clock a! night 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,514 and it's about a two-hour ride. 122 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,598 And we were speeding on route 17. 123 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,320 We were going 100 miles per hour, perhaps more. 124 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,920 We were speeding. 125 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,837 We're driving as fast as (his car would go. 126 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,918 Il was shaking. 127 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,759 And we go! pulled over by a New York Stale trooper. 128 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,110 [Sirens wailing] 129 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,196 And as I roll down my window (here's this gigantic cop 130 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,709 with like the sunglasses even though it's night time. 131 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,114 In the big hat. 132 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,074 He said, "You know, lclocked you at BB in a 50. 133 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,993 "Son, you better have a really good reason." 134 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,593 And I was like, 135 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,438 "Well, Officer, you're never gonna believe this." 136 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,836 The two of us are like yelling at this guy. 137 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,115 "You, you don't know, 138 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,958 'this guy, this guy has a Min brother, 139 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,879 "he was adopted and we're going to Long Island to go see..." 140 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,675 And, and, and the guy was, "Yeah, right." You know. 141 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,791 "Here's, here's your ticket have a good day." 142 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,994 And onto Long Island we went. 143 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,910 [Bobby] So, we go! there. 144 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,792 But it's like, the middle of the night. 145 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,034 And ifs this really quiet neighborhood. 146 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,116 So, we get out of the car. 147 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,834 And walk up this little path to the house. 148 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,432 And the lights were on in the house. 149 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,598 And I reached out to knock on the door 150 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,758 and as I reached out to knock on the door it opens. 151 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,952 And there I am. 152 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,560 His eyes were my eyes and my eyes were his eyes 153 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,876 and it's true. 154 00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:37,518 [Michael] They looked exactly alike. 155 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:40,393 They're duplicates o! each other. 156 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,829 There was no doubt in my mind that (hey were twins. 157 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,838 He's going, "Oh my God." I'm going, "Oh my God." 158 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,197 He's going, "Holy crap." I'm going, "Holy crap." 159 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,595 They just looked at each other and they moved... 160 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,270 Every time Bobby moved his head, Eddy moved 161 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,995 and then Eddy would move and then Bobby would move, 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,190 like, like they were looking at a mirror. 163 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,072 L! was the weirdest thing. 164 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,272 Il was like the world faded away, 165 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,153 and it was just me and Eddy. 166 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,350 So, I'm in the newsroom, it's the middle of a busy day, 167 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,118 we got a call {rum somebody 168 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,595 who says they have an amazing story to tell us, 169 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,678 we are not gonna believe this story, 170 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,917 and my first reaction, "Ah, it's a hoax." 171 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,954 So, Hold our reporter, "I wanna rem a plane." 172 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,911 In those days we had enough money to do this. 173 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,238 "I wanna rent a plane, I wanna see these two kids face to lace 174 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,554 "or I don't believe this." 175 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,110 We flew lhejoumalist up to Sullivan Community College 176 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,710 and he called me and he said, "Howie, it's true, it's true. 177 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,878 And I remember saying, "Oh my God, this is a great story. 178 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,959 "This is a memorable heart-warming story." 179 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,233 And then the story went from being amazing to incredible, OK, 180 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,759 from amazing to incredible. 181 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,396 [Ellen] I was on the New York Subway. 182 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,795 Quite late at night. 183 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:24,199 Read an article about two boys who found each other. 184 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,072 That were twins separated at birth 185 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,269 and found each other 186 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,914 alSullivan County Community College. 187 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,793 There was no picture. but the story was fascinating. 188 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,113 I came home, and went to sleep. 189 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,714 My mother came into the room 190 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,832 and said, "Wake up, wake up, I have to show you something." 191 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,030 And she shows me a newspaper 192 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,470 with a picture of two boys 193 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,160 and I had to like, focus and I looked a! the photograph 194 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,237 and I said, "Is that David?" 195 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,195 And she's like, "No, but look at (he hands.“ 196 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:09,958 And I was like, "Holy mackerel. This is beyond amazing." 197 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,436 It was a picture in the newspaper of two guys, 198 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,598 in (he "Post" and I picked up the picture 199 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,358 and I looked at it, 200 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,516 and I was like in shock, 201 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,269 cos the two guys in the "Post" looked exactly, exactly 202 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,279 like, like my friend David. I shred a! it. 203 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,596 And it wasn't even just the look on their face. 204 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,438 It was the way that they were holding their hands. 205 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,717 They have these big meaty hands. And David always had this, 206 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,916 these hands that looked like baseball mitts. 207 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:46,115 And when I saw their hands, I just knew that this is David. 208 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,398 [David] It was just a normal day. 209 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,750 I got to school, ran into my buddy Alan. 210 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,633 He said, "David, take a look a! this.“ 211 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,115 And he's got a copy of the "New York Post“. 212 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,310 And, er... he opens it up 213 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,237 and says, "Look a! this. 214 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:07,679 "Look, look familiar?" Something to that efiecl. 215 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,189 And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure." 216 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,036 But then we looked at it a little bit more closely. 217 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:19,549 It was an article, it said, 218 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,911 "Twins reunited after more than 19 years." 219 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,430 And it had a picture of two of what looked like me. 220 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,838 L! all started to sink in. 221 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,998 "Holy shit, oh my God. 222 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,634 "Do you? This is un... this is not believable, 223 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:39,990 "this is, this is unbelievable. Wow! 224 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,077 "This is big, this is serious, 225 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,999 "this is just not some kind of crazy coincidence. 226 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,316 "This is not a minor resemblance. 227 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,237 'This is real, this is happening, 228 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:50,873 "this is really, really serious." 229 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,271 I ditched classes and got home. 230 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,436 My mother was waiting at the kitchen table 231 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,515 with a cup of coffee. 232 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,676 And I said, "Mom, you see this?" 233 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,634 She said, "You see this?" And we kinda exchanged newspapers. 234 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,394 Il had, "...bom Long Island Jewish Hospital." 235 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,954 "July 12th, 1961." 236 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,675 And it was Louise Wise adoption agency. 237 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,678 Imean, I always knew growing up that I was adopted, 238 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,836 My parents were always open about it. 239 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,998 Bu! it said Eddy Galland of New Hyde Park, Long Island, 240 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,316 Robert Shafran of Scarsdale, New York. 241 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,794 I remember it said, 242 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,753 "Son oi prominent Scarsdale physician Mort Shaimn" 243 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,916 and, er... my first thought, I said, 244 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,951 "He's got the wealthy family. 245 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,160 "That 805's probably driving a Benz! He go! a donor!" 246 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,711 [Alan] And I remember being with David in (he kitchen. 247 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,156 We were like, really nervous. 248 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,238 I mean we were, you know, jumping around, it was... 249 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,875 You know, we were 19 years old. I mean this was surreal. 250 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,391 And David picked up the phone and he called Information, 251 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,233 and he reached Eddy's mom. 252 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,157 And I said, "Hi, is Eddy home?" 253 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,113 She says, "No, who's calling, please?" 254 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,719 And I thought, 'OK, 255 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,114 “now I've gotta go into this whole thing on the phone." 256 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,518 lsaid, "Well, my name is David Kellman, 257 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,552 "and I was born July 12th 1961 258 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,716 "and I'm looking a! a newspaper 259 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,311 "and, er... basically I think I'm looking at two of me. 260 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,397 "I think I might be the third." 261 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,239 And I think she dropped the phone, actually. 262 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,796 And I remember hearing her voice over the phone, 263 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,150 "Oh my God, they're coming out of the woodwork!" 264 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,829 [Hedy] It was a miracle. 265 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,269 The first time that the boys met together, 266 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,472 the three together was at my house. 267 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,999 And the three of them ended up 268 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,749 like puppies wrestling on the floor. 269 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,555 Il was the most incredible... 270 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,352 it was the most incredible thing. 271 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,277 They belonged to each other. 272 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,239 They knew each other. There was no formal introduction. 273 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,557 I mean, when you meet somebody for the first time 274 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,634 you don't end up rolling around on the floor with them. 275 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,389 It was truly no! fully believable. 276 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,517 Even though it was happening it was still surreal. 277 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,437 You think you're dreaming. 278 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,074 You're looking and you're still "Oh my God." 279 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,838 You look at the other one, "Oh my God." 280 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,837 And then you realize that they're looking at you 281 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,598 or everybody else is looking at you loo. 282 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,200 To have all three of (hem in the house at onetime... 283 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:36,674 [Gasps] 284 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,280 It... it was really madness. 285 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,156 My emotions were shock, shock and more shock. 286 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,717 I mean, I can'! explain it, 287 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,360 I haven't got the terminology. 288 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,794 One of our reporters came running over to me and said 289 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,036 'You're not gonna believe (his, 290 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,313 "you are not gonna believe the call we just got. 291 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,829 "You know the two kids on the front page today? 292 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,190 "Well, there's a third." 293 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,834 They even moved (he same way. 294 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,794 All of us just sat back 295 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,710 and watched three separate lives becoming one. 296 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,240 The way I put it was 297 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,715 I looked more like Eddy than I did David, 298 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,990 and more like David than I did Eddy, 299 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,032 and more like either of them than they did like each other. 300 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,832 Does that make sense? 301 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,158 And then we started comparing notes. 302 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,760 What do 19-year-olds compare? 303 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:53,391 Booze, cigarettes, food, women, music, cars. 304 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,751 I had just broughta brand new Mercury Capri, which I loved. 305 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,590 And Bobby had this, Maroon beat up old Volvo 306 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,756 with cracked leather seats and I'm thinking, 307 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,590 "Hmm, son of a prominent Scarsdale physician, huh?" 308 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,755 [Schneider] I think it was Eddy who said 309 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,393 right at the beginning, 310 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,879 "I don't know if this will turn out to be great or terrible." 311 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,551 So, there was always a question mark, a big question mark, 312 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,070 about where the story eventually was going. 313 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,158 We didn't realize from (hen on 314 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,352 just how much things were going to change. 315 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,596 'Now one of the most remarkable stories I've seen in sometime: 316 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,675 'a story about triplets. 317 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,560 'Eddy and Robert and David reunited after 19 years.' 318 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,830 'We have a story about triplets that gives new meaning 319 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,393 'to the phrase long lost brothers.' 320 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,676 We went on everything. Everything. 321 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,313 'You're not seeing double 322 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,112 'you are perhaps in a moment going to be seeing triple.' 323 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,434 'I don't know who's who here. 324 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,792 'Come on out here, gentlemen, come on out.' 325 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,433 You just had to stop what you're doing 326 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,832 and watch (hem on every different show. 327 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,440 [Schneider] It became a circus, it became a media circus. 328 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,359 Talk about viral, I mean this was... it was viral even then. 329 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,676 'You guys have been on the front page of every newspaper 330 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,916 - 'in the world.' - [Triplets] True.' 331 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,752 "People Magazine", 'Time Magazine", 332 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,077 even the "New York Times", "Good Housekeeping". 333 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,514 'David, let's begin with you. 334 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,675 'Which one': David, I keep forgetting?' 335 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,119 - 'You're Edward?' - 'Right! 336 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,389 'OK, who are you, are you David?' 337 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,714 - 'I'm Bobby.' - 'Oh, you're... I'm sorry. 338 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,394 'You're Robert, all right. Robert and Edward.' 339 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,670 - [Audience laughing] - 'Come on.' 340 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,669 ll was a fairy tale story. 341 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,156 And people need to hear wonderful things. 342 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,191 'These three young men, 343 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,437 'they're all seated in the same position.' 344 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,835 [Audience laughing] 345 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,713 It was kind of amazing. They really were strangers. 346 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,955 They looked identical to each other 347 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,798 but they were strangers, right? 348 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,239 You know, they really didn't know one another. 349 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,318 But their behaviors were so similar. 350 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,000 'Our lives are parallel toa phenomenal degree. 351 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,951 'It's, it's ridiculous.' 352 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,479 'We're all the same, 353 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,840 'as soon as we started discussing our personalities.' 354 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,439 'Personalities are the same, our gestures are the same.' 355 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,800 'We always talk a! the same time.' 356 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,638 'I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it.' 357 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,040 [Eddy] 'We all like Chinese load.' 358 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:22,876 [Brokaw] 'You were all wrestlers at one time?' 359 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,240 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 360 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,509 'You all smoke the same brand of cigarettes?' 361 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,954 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 362 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,638 [Donahue] 'What kind of cigarettes do you smoke?' 363 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,670 'Marlboro! 364 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,040 'Do you all smoke the same brand?' 365 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,514 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 366 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,200 - 'Do you like the same colors?' - [Triplets] Wes.' 367 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,117 'Yeah, I was curious, how's their taste in women, 368 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,720 - 'is it similar?' - [Triplets] 'Yes. Definitely.' 369 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,398 [Audience laughing] 370 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,670 Il seems they all liked older women. 371 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,836 'Somebody said you all liked older women.' 372 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,359 [Triplets] 'Well...' 373 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,151 [Newsreader] 'Another astonishing coincidence 374 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,352 'is that each of the brothers grew up with an adoptive sister, 375 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,233 'all the girls now 21 years old.' 376 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,033 [Camera shutter clicks] 377 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,832 'I can't get over it, I (ell you.' 378 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,632 'An extraordinary string o! coincidences 379 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,715 'you all have to agree, right?' 380 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,989 'It's beautiful.' 381 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,314 [Interviewer] 'You say you love each other, 382 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,078 'but you're only known each other for such a short time.' 383 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:12,599 'Doesn't matter, I've known them my whole life.' 384 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,472 'How long did it take for you to have that feeling?' 385 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,840 - 'Like that.' - [Triplets snap fingers] 386 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:20,474 [Schneider] They were more like clones 387 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,070 than they were like brothers. 388 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:27,909 It was just absolutely astounding because they grew up 389 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,349 it would appear to be pretty different households. 390 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,469 We'd been adopted by a blue-collar family, 391 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,036 a middle-class family and a more affluent family. 392 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,269 Bobby's parents, Bobby's father was a medical doctor. 393 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,433 And his mother was an attorney. 394 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,312 So they were very well educated and they were living 395 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,554 in one of the most prestigious areas of the country. 396 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,190 Eddy's father was a teacher, he had a college education. 397 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,392 And they lived in what would be considered 398 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,511 a middle-class neighborhood. 399 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:25,240 My family on paper were the least educated, 400 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,195 they were immigrants, English was a second language to them, 401 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,436 they had a little store, 402 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,429 they were the more blue-collar family. 403 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,551 Hmm, but my father was just 404 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,356 this incredibly generous warm guy. 405 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,234 David's father, Richard was, uh... was larger than life. 406 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,956 If you could imagine this guy was a big guy, 407 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,670 with a big cigar always hanging out of his mouth. 408 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,319 We referred to him as 'bubalai 409 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,237 [Ellen] He was Buhala. 410 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,033 If you know Yiddish, 'bubala' it's like love, 411 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,232 it's hugging and it's kissing. 412 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,396 [Bobby] We spent more time a! David's house 413 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,750 than any place else. 414 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,556 Bubala celebrated us like no other person. 415 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,432 He said, "I have two more sons." 416 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,639 When the boys found each other 417 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,479 it just sort of happened 418 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,954 (hen and there. 419 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,798 Here is this wonderful story 420 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,592 and that's it. 421 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,473 Nobody questioned what was going on 422 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,238 except the parents of course. 423 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,832 When the families met up (he first time 424 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,838 there was great anger in all a! them 425 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,316 about the tact that the parents had never been told 426 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,351 that there were two other children. 427 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,594 [Elliott] They didn't tell us a word when we were adopting. 428 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,790 We knew nothing about the other two 429 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,311 until, er... the boys met at, at school, 430 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,556 that was 20 years later. 431 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,200 [Hedy] The first thing that hit me was what they lost. 432 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,676 I believe they were six months old when they were separated. 433 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,395 If you imagine those three little bodies lying together 434 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:31,709 and suddenlythe coldness of being alone in a crib. 435 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,232 It's a terrible deprivation. 436 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,357 I remember being (old by my mother 437 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,399 when I was a baby that I would slam my head against the wall, 438 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,397 I would basically knock myself out. 439 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,954 My mother said that I would bang my head 440 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,434 on the inside of the crib... 441 00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,230 ...and I would hold my breath until I passed out. 442 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,354 I believe it was absolutely separation anxiety 443 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,836 All of us had been adopted from Louise Wise Services. 444 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,871 [Reporter] 'Louise Wise Services, 445 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,312 'the New York institution founded back in 1915 446 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,192 'overseen by a board of directors 447 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,958 'drawn from New York City's 448 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,913 'social, financial and political elite.' 449 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,477 They were the pre-eminent adoption agency 450 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,753 on the East Coast for Jewish babies in particular. 451 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,314 That was the place to go. 452 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,670 What we have felt 453 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,631 at Louise Wise Services 454 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,159 where I have been active 455 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,192 for a great longtime, 456 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,232 is that adoptive parents should be told 457 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,831 as much about the background of a child as is reasonable. 458 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,839 Our parents they, they, they wanted answers, they were angry. 459 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,839 And they arranged a meeting and they... the six of them 460 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,875 went in to Louise Wise Agency to try to get some answers 461 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,912 in terms of piecing together what happened. 462 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,439 [Thunder clapping] 463 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:27,715 [Alice] There was a meeting with the top brass at the agency. 464 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,512 And they were asked, 465 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,678 "Is it true that you separated these boys at birth?" 466 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,430 And they said, 'Yes, we did." 467 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,672 Why? 468 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,790 How could you not tell us? 469 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,559 What did you do? 470 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,910 Why and how could you? 471 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,554 [Alice] They said the reason was 472 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,312 because it was hard to place three children in one home. 473 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,397 The parents had been told that 474 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,512 it was in our best interests that we'd been split up. 475 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,077 That not every parent would welcome triplets, 476 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,990 and that triplets would be difficult to place. 477 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,718 Which... I think at that moment my father blew his shack. 478 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,832 And just said, "We wouldWe taken all three. 479 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,829 'There's no question." And he was furious. 480 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,394 [Sighs] Well, the meeting came to an end. 481 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,716 [Thunder clapping] 482 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,398 [Bobby] They all left. 483 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,512 They felt like they had gotten nothing. 484 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,916 And my father realized that he had left his umbrella in there. 485 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,837 And he went back to gel the umbrella. 486 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,958 And he walked inlo the room 487 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,914 to see them breaking open a bottle of champagne... 488 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,116 and toasting each other as if they had dodged a bullet. 489 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:22,869 They looked like they'd just missed getting hurl 490 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,514 or killed or what have you. 491 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,236 It was a, er... that was memorable. 492 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,998 [David] All of our parents came away from that meeting angry. 493 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,117 The parents went to some pretty prestigious New York law firms 494 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,438 and initially they were met with a lot of enthusiasm, 495 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,195 and, er... invariably within a shun period oiiime 496 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,119 were told, er... there's a conflict 497 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,754 and they could not take the case. 498 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,430 The'; said, "We have a number of associates 499 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,871 'who are trying to adopt through Louise Wise, 500 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,959 "and we don't wanna ruin their chances." 501 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,395 So, that lawsuit was out. 502 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,110 [David] We were too happy being together to be that angry. 503 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,358 We didn't understand it and to a degree we almost didn't care. 504 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,717 Our heads were in the clouds, 505 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,592 we knew our parents were pissed off 506 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,951 but it was almost like, "Well, that's our parents' thing to do" 507 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,037 while we were out partying. 508 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,229 [I KIM WILDE: "Kids In America"] 509 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,197 I' Friday night and everyone's moving... 510 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,035 [Bobby] This was New York in 1880. 511 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,673 Drugs were different, people were different, 512 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,757 sex was different, music was different. 513 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,158 Phew! We just, we just wok advantage of all those things. 514 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,079 Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll. 515 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,954 I We're the kids in America, whoa... J? 516 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,116 They were running amok in New York, I'll say. 517 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,229 Studio 54 was cooking. Limelight. Copacabana. 518 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,238 They were hitting them all. 519 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,874 [David] New York loved us. New York lowed us. 520 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,633 All the newspapers were following the boys around 521 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:21,750 no matter where we went. 522 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,440 I remember one morning walking in 523 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,395 and my mother throwing the "New York Post" at me, 524 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,239 at the kitchen table saying, "I gotta look a! the paper 525 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,794 "to find out where you were last night?" 526 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,437 The boys thought they were gonna be stars, 527 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,395 and actually they did star in one movie. 528 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,717 Walking down the street, all of a sudden we hear, 529 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,798 "Guys, guys, you're the guys! 530 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,353 "Could you please be in our movie? 531 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,470 "Please be in my movie." 532 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,479 We didn't know who she was, and she was, she was Madonna. 533 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,399 The stood on the side and ogled her. 534 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,431 Pretty soon we got an apartment together, 535 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,757 the triplets apartment. 536 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,313 [Ellen] The triplefs apartment. 537 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,719 Hmm, ifs like if you had the most bachelor apartment 538 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,034 times three. 539 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,878 The liquor store used to deliver the liquor, 540 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,878 At one point Eddy had appendicitis. 541 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,752 He had no insurance. 542 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,350 And so he checked into the hospital as Bobby. 543 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,960 And had his appendix taken out. As Bobby. 544 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,958 I hope to this day Bobby's appendix stays pretty healthy. 545 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,710 Between working together, playing together, 546 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,070 going out together, going on dams together, 547 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,599 living together, 548 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,079 from the time we me! till... well (ill later 549 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,829 there was nothing, nothing that could keep us apart. 550 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,111 [Ilene] I feel like I was the firs! serious girlfriend. 551 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,872 Initially I couldn't really tell them apart 552 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,274 and I would bump into them 553 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,118 and I waswtquite sure 554 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,437 which one I was going outwith, so... 555 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,600 Bob has this very raw, natural, type of intelligence 556 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,870 that I think I was attracted too. 557 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:27,836 I always thought David was the best, right, 558 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,279 of the three of them. 559 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,436 L, I've said it before, you know, 560 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,949 "I got the pick of the litter." 561 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,437 Without a douM, Eddy wasthe, er... handsomest 562 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,632 of all the three triplets, you know. 563 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,432 Of course, I'm partial 564 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,120 but, you know, I adored him. 565 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,315 When I met him, he was the last holdout. 566 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,673 The Casanova of the three and, er... I said, 567 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,838 "Oh boy, this guy's a real bachelor, like player." 568 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,471 But he was so warm in his smile 569 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,150 and he had wonderful beautiful hands, soft hands 570 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,880 and when I shook his hand I mean, I just, l... 571 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,558 You know, I just loll in love with him. 572 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,432 I'm from a big colorful Irish catholic family 573 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,710 and he was a Jewish guy. 574 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,479 When he came (u the house for the first time, 575 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,673 he looked at my dad and he said, 576 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,912 "I don't know if you know this, Mr Shanley, 577 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,236 "I've been seeing Brenda every night pretty much 578 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,918 "since the first day I met her." 579 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,678 And I thought, "Oh my God, 580 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,155 "my dad knows that, you know, we're together every night." 581 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,909 And my dad just son of, you know, looked at me like, "OK" 582 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,075 and that was Eddy. 583 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,872 -'I do.' -'l do.' 584 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,232 [Clapping] 585 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,635 'We love you.' 586 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,234 [Brenda] Everyone loved him. 587 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,878 If there was a scale, Bobby would be reserved, 588 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,354 David would be middle 589 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,711 and Eddy was just the loveable, mushy, 590 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,876 huggahle, funny, 591 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,151 you know, he just exuded warmth and love. 592 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:35,596 [Miming baby laughter] 593 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,350 [Mrs Shanley] 'Jamie's first Thanksgiving with Daddy.' 594 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,358 - 'Hi, look who's here.' - 'Yes, Daddy.' 595 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,913 'Daddy decided to show up 596 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,197 'and make a special guest appearance.' 597 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,792 I 'Happy birthday, dear Jamie 598 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,958 J"Happy birthday to you? 599 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,957 [Brenda] He loved family gatherings. 600 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,073 [Cheering] 601 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,509 [Alan] You know, Eddy really, really loved 602 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,871 being around David and Bobby. 603 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,471 Eddy seemed to gel the most out of the three of them meeting. 604 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,079 For whatever reason. 605 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,754 [Brenda] He wanted his brothers and him to have a beautiful life 606 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,998 and everyone to gel along 607 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,352 and he wanted everyone to he one big family. 608 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,833 Eddy was absolutely the driving force 609 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,874 in terms of leading the search for our birth mother. 610 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,230 He got a fever and he just wanted to do it. 611 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,998 And Alan was also rallying, 612 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,316 because it was just an exciting (hing to do. 613 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,476 We figured what are the chances 614 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:57,960 of having triplets born in New York 615 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,236 on July 12th 1961. 616 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,353 We figured out that New York public library 617 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,040 shaved birth records. 618 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,270 We each grabbed a book 619 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,472 and um! page by page W W3“! W?!“ “W, 620 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,273 and within a couple of hours, it was, "Bingo!" 621 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,871 Male, male, male. Three in a row. 622 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,877 All horn July 12th 1961. 623 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,837 [David] Right next lo it, birth mother's last name. 624 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,430 The first meeting was a bar on like, 47th Street. 625 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,791 It was like, her local neighborhood watering hole 626 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,720 on the East side, and I! was awkward. 627 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,718 She told the story of what happened. 628 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,479 Unfortunately it wasn't a romantic story. 629 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,557 She was a young girl. 630 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,833 Basically, prom night knock up type thing. 631 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,117 [Alan] I don't think she ever go! over the fact 632 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,994 that she had triplets and had to give them up. 633 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,436 You know, to us at 19, 634 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,118 you drink like a fish, you think you're invincible. 635 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,953 But we found it a little concerning 636 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,392 that she was pretty much keeping up with us, you know. 637 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,717 Er... the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree 638 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,754 and it that's the tree, I was less than thrilled, 639 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,557 and we had our parents already, so we met her and I! was OK. 640 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,597 But she was not a particularly close pan of our lives. 641 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,876 We were all young and starting our marriages and careers. 642 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,593 'Hi, welcome to Triplets.' 643 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,439 [Newsreader] 'David Kellman, Eddy Galland and Robert Shafran 644 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,357 'are identical triplets. 645 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,073 'Now they run a New York restaurant called, 646 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,270 'what else, you guessed, Triplets,' 647 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,397 [Journalist] 'Welcome. Hello. Welcome, welcome.' 648 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,590 [David] We had a lot of people who were coming for us. 649 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,029 They came to see the triplets. 650 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,196 They wanted to be waited on by one of the triplets. 651 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,356 We sewed vodka frozen blocks of ice, 652 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,835 and we'd get the whole roam up and dancing. 653 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,678 It was like this big party going on, 654 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:34,949 it was like this big Bar Millvah. 655 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,476 'Triplets become wildly successful 656 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,715 'owning a restaurant 657 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,398 'in the Soho district of New York City.' 658 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:50,836 We did over a million dollars firs! year. 659 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,838 That's when things kinda got funky. 660 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,194 [Wright] In the mid-90s I started working on a story 661 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,311 for "The New Yorker" magazine 662 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,318 about identical twins reared apart. 663 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,794 I've always thought, 664 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,035 "What would it be like if you turned 665 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,835 "the corner one day and you saw yourself?" 666 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,713 In the process of my research, 667 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,152 I came across (his obscure scientific article. 668 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,075 Il referenced this secret study 669 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,556 in which identical siblings had been separated. 670 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,109 I was shocked and intrigued. 671 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,472 They were separating identical babies a! birth 672 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,115 for the purpose of this scientific experiment. 673 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,554 And these babies had all come 674 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,195 from one adoption agency in New York City. 675 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,918 [Michael] 'The first thing out of my mouth 676 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,439 'was, "Were you adopted?' 677 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,959 [Bobby] There I am, this can'! he real.' 678 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,718 [Ellen] 'Twins separated a! birth.' 679 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,549 [Brokaw] 'Eddy and Robert and David reunited after 19 years.' 680 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,995 'It's beautiful.' 681 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,236 [David] 'Blue-collar family, middle-class family 682 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,839 'and a more affluenl family.' 683 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,078 'Adoptive parents should be (old as much as is reasonable.' 684 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,838 [David] 'Something was just no! right.' 685 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,759 [Alice] 'They were breaking open a bottle of champagne 686 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,235 'as if they had dodged a bullet.' 687 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,355 [David] 'All of us were adopted from Louise Mse.' 688 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,232 [Reporter] 'Louise Wise.' 689 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,069 'And these babies had all come from Louise 'Wise Services.' 690 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,914 Lawrence Wright called me 691 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,272 and he told me all about the experiment. 692 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,630 And I said, "This is like Nazi shit." 693 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,994 ll was kind of like reality hitting like a tidal wave. 694 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,756 We were a science experiment. 695 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:47,070 These people split us up and studied us like lab rats. 696 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,875 We didn't recognize this stuff until it was put in our face. 697 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,319 Until it was in newsprint. 698 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,115 But there were clues in the past, 699 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,839 I remember from a very young age... 700 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,152 mpeople would come to the house... 701 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,440 "usually a young man and a young woman. 702 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,436 And they had me taking tests. 703 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,439 They did IO tests, personality inventory tests, 704 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,393 they did eye hand co-ordination tests. 705 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,072 I do remember people coming to the house, having tests done, 706 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:43,356 square pegs and round holes, and Rorschach ink block tests. 707 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,074 "What does (his mean to you?" that kind of stuff. 708 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,910 Eddy told me that when he was younger, 709 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:57,273 he remembers people watching him and taking notes, 710 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,072 and they would ask him questions 711 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,436 and he would get frustrated with (he questions. 712 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,355 And he remembers they were videotaping him. 713 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,755 I remember the filming more than anything else. 714 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,433 I remember having superflmm films taken of me 715 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,313 when I was on the swing set, or on the slide. 716 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,954 Every single time they came they filmed. 717 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,991 Riding my bike, throwing a ball, 718 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,838 and they wanted to see how many times I could, 719 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,315 you know, go on my pogo stick, roller-skating, 720 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,630 throwing a Frisbee, shooting a how and arrow, 721 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,079 you know, they had my attention. 722 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,349 I was performing. 723 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,596 The stuff they did would be more complex as I got older. 724 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,758 Hell weird about it, I didn't really understand 725 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,757 why they needed to some so often, 726 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,314 why were they asking me all these questions. 727 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,237 Somewhere around age of nine or ten 728 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,237 I started becoming less comfortable with it, 729 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,874 and it was kinda like, "Mom, do I still have to do this? 730 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,273 "Do I still have to do this?" 731 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,751 When our parents adopted us 732 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,918 they were each (old that we were being followed 733 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,394 as pan of a normal study 734 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,518 of the development of adopted children, 735 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:18,000 They had no idea that we'd been separated. 736 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,637 The agency said the children born in this period of time 737 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,958 were all gonna be in a normal study of adopted children. 738 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:34,629 And, as far as we knew, (hat was it. 739 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,240 Thai this was a new thing they were going to follow up 740 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,673 with all the children and at the time we accepted it. 741 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,231 [David] You're talking about a group of people 742 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,353 that went and held a baby 743 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,951 and did psychological testing on a six-month-old baby, 744 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,551 and then went to another house to see his brother, 745 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,956 and then went to another house to see his brother, 746 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,359 and did this over years and years and years and years 747 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,198 with full knowledge 748 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:12,231 that we were within a 100-mile radius. 749 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,717 And not knowing each other. 750 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,435 It's just unconscionable. 751 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,429 Who would think that anybody would he evil enough 752 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,269 to come up with something like this? 753 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,637 In the process of my research, 754 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,560 I learned is that the person really in charge o! (he study 755 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,673 was Dr Peter Neubauer, 756 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,033 very distinguished psychiatrist in New York, 757 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,754 director of the Freud archives. 758 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,759 He was an Austrian refugee from the Holocaust 759 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,719 and he set up shop in New York and became, you know, 760 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:06,000 one of the great men of psychiatry in America. 761 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,271 What I learned is that people at the Louise Wise agency 762 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,631 were separating identical siblings 763 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,877 and then a beam o! scientists led by Neuhauer 764 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,389 would follow them. 765 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,990 But it wasn't just the triplets. 766 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,673 There were others. 767 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,676 After my article came out 768 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,917 another twin set discovered themselves. 769 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,519 'And here they are now. 770 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,675 'I appreciate you coming on the show today.' 771 00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,836 - 'Our pleasure.' - 'Paula and Elyse.' 772 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,390 [Audience applauds] 773 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,991 'The story is incredible. Is that the way to tell it?' 774 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,680 'It's funny. I mean, we say I! I! hadn't happened to us 775 00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,997 - 'we wouldn't believe it.' - 'This is a Disney movie.' 776 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,792 'It's a little darker than a Disney movie. 777 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,831 'I was at home in my apartment in Brooklyn 778 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,518 'with my two-year-old daughter, 779 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,712 'and the phone rings and I answer the phone 780 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,239 'and it was the adoption agency. 781 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,277 “We've got some news for you, you've go! a twin sister. 782 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,674 "And she's looking for you!" 783 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,314 'You were both editors of your high school paper, 784 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,919 'you both went to film school.' 785 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,553 'Well, it's funny because I don't know if you noticed...' 786 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,797 'Our mannerisms are inherited.' 787 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,751 'I contacted the adoption agency 788 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,030 'and I asked them, "Well, why we were separated?“ 789 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,514 'That's the million-dollar question of this story.' 790 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:20,959 'And they said, "For a twin study." 791 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,957 'We felt that our lives had been orchestrated 792 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,276 'by these scientific researchers 793 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,789 'who put their scientific needs, 794 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,992 'research needs or desires, their career interests 795 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,236 'before the needs of us, and the interests of us 796 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,238 'and other twins and triplets who were separated.' 797 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,035 [Wright] Nobody is sure of how many identical twins 798 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,832 were involved in this study. 799 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,431 I was told six to eight, but we don't really know. 800 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:52,919 When you have a study like this, 801 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,156 normally you produce the results 802 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,158 and you show how large (he sample is 803 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,111 and all this son of thing. 804 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,676 But this study was never published, 805 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,156 Which makes it all the more intriguing. 806 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,716 [David] We did have an attorney 807 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,071 try to get us some of the study records. 808 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,431 We received a small amount of information. 809 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,797 Il was very dry, technical data, 810 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,433 that didn't really shed any light 811 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,040 on the reasons for the study. It was garbage. 812 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,472 I don't know what the results were, 813 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,672 or if there ever were results because I never saw them. 814 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,710 [Wright] They're trying to conceal what they did 815 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,195 from the people they did it to. 816 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,992 Why? 817 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,600 [Aline] I mean, what was the purpose of it? 818 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,598 The study was never published. Why? 819 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,877 My name is Natasha Josefowilz... 820 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,673 ...and I was PelerNeubaueFs research assistant. 821 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,479 So, come on in. Would you like a cup of coffee? 822 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,318 Here are some of my buddies. 823 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,830 Michelle Obama and I. She is very tall. 824 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,678 I'm like a little shrimp next to her, 825 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,711 I come up to her right here. 826 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,433 This is Obama three years ago, 827 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,830 and here he is holding my latest hook. 828 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,190 I have lo bell you. lsaid, "Barack, I love you." 829 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,551 He said, "I love you too", and he gave me a kiss on this cheek. 830 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:53,071 Yeah. This is Robert Redford and Al Gore. 831 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,829 And this is Errol Flynn and me when I was 18. 832 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,473 I thought he was a hoot. 833 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,271 Picasso's. 834 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,357 When are we gonna talk about the twin study? 835 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,155 [Clears throat] 836 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,989 You need to know lam no! part of the team, 837 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,510 lam a peripheral person. I just do the hearsay. 838 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,076 The first time I heard about the twin study, 839 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,398 it was still just a dream in Peter's head. 840 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,034 [Interviewer] What was he like'! 841 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,756 Hmm... sexy, nice looking, interesting. 842 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,349 His background was very Freudian. 843 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,357 Anna Freud, Freud's daughter, 844 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,040 would often some and visit with him. 845 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,309 He was very focused on wanting to make a diflerence 846 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,397 in children's lives. 847 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,355 Peter started thinking, wouldn't I! be interesting 848 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,710 to have a study of mothers 849 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,717 who wanted to give up their children. 850 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,797 Who happen to be identical twins 851 00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:09,475 and then could he separated at birth? 852 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,718 If we could put (hem in two totally different environments, 853 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,673 we would put to rest the dilemma, 854 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,678 nature or nurture, forever. 855 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,915 Now you may think, "Oh, (his is terrible, you know, 856 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,678 "how could you do this?" 857 00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:29,998 You have lo put yourself back in the late 50s and 60s. 858 00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:36,396 This was not something that seemed to be bad. 859 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,910 Nobody said, "To take children apart, how terrible." 860 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,079 That was not at all in anyone's thoughts. 861 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,512 This was a very exciting time. 862 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,995 Psychology was just beginning to be the big deal 863 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,236 that everybody was talking about. 864 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,551 This was all in terms of research. An opportunity. 865 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,551 One of the great questions that science has ever asked 866 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,069 is "How do we become (he people we are, 867 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,112 "how much of nature versus how much of nurture 868 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,720 "shapes us into the people that we become?“ 869 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,279 [Josefowitz] I did not go and do the research. 870 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,914 But I would hear about it because I was in the office. 871 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,470 What they found out, was incredible. 872 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,154 'Our lives are parallel toa phenomenal degree. 873 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,476 'It's, it's ridiculous.' 874 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,999 'We're all the same, 875 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,314 'as soon as we started discussing our personalities.' 876 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,317 'Personalities are the same, our gestures are the same.' 877 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,430 'We always talk a! the same time.' 878 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,437 'You were raised in different homes?' 879 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,153 [Triplets] True.' 880 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:47,320 I did not believe that it'd be as much hereditary as it was, 881 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,317 that was more than any of us thought. 882 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,078 'I'll start a sentence and he'll finish it.' 883 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,269 [Eddy] 'We all like Chinese load.' 884 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,549 'You were all wrestlers at one time?' 885 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,034 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 886 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,070 - 'You all smoke cigarettes?' - [Triplets] Wes.' 887 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,554 'Do you all smoke the same brand?' 888 00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,034 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 889 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,469 - 'Do you like the same colors?' - [Triplets] Wes.' 890 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,272 'How's their taste in women, is it similar?' 891 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,436 [Triplets] 'Yes. Definitely.' 892 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,039 [Audience laughing] 893 00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,071 We are moved l0 behaviors 894 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,952 that we are totally unconscious about. 895 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,950 'You were hath editors of your high school paper, 896 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,832 'you both went to film school.' 897 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,234 'I don't know ii you noticed...' 898 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,396 'Our mannerisms are inherited.' 899 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,397 It's disturbing, we don't like that. 900 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,477 People don't like to hear, they say, "I have free will." 901 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,350 We would prefer that we have some influence over our lives. 902 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,232 Wouldn't you rather know that'? 903 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,476 Thai you have some control over this 904 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,558 and so finding out, never mind, doesn't matter what you do. 905 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,275 So, I think it's upsetting to people 906 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,550 to see how little influence they have, 907 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,670 how little control they have. 908 00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:58,792 We don't like that, we fight that. 909 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,030 If the conclusions of the study were so shocking 910 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,720 and so earth-shaking, 911 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,070 why haven't you published your study? 912 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,750 There is a lot that we don't know. 913 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,555 We have anecdotes that are very provocative, 914 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,950 but we don't know, we don't have the data. 915 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,120 [Josefowitz] I don'! know what happened to the sludy. 916 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,994 I moved to Switzerland in 1965 917 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,795 and lost touch with what was going on. 918 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,071 All that research should be seen. 919 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,959 This study was the first, and it's also the last, 920 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,311 it will never be done again, il will never be replicated. 921 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,510 It's monumental, it's a monumental study. 922 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,350 In terms of the motivation that they used 923 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,118 c» justify what they did, 924 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,515 I don't even care because, I... 925 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,198 It's natjustifiahle what they did. 926 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,037 [Hedy] You know what? 927 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,799 Coming from the Holocaust, 928 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:23,472 our family has a knowledge 929 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,275 that when you play with humans... 930 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,876 ...you do something very wrong. 931 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:41,039 And I really believe that because of this research, 932 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,551 these three boys did no! have happy endings. 933 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,678 'What were some of the similarities 934 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,757 'you found that you had as you were all growing up 935 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,509 'in your own respective households?' 936 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,676 'We all smoked the same cigarettes when we met, 937 00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,870 'we all wrestled in high school and junior high, 938 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,036 'we all loved the same food, er... 939 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,400 'our taste in women was similar.' 940 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,078 'What are some of the stranger things 941 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,231 'you found out you had in common? 942 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,269 'Any other more surprising discoveries?' 943 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,515 'Well, sometimes when you think 944 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,119 'you're having a unique though! or idea 945 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,276 'and you go to share it with someone 946 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,152 'and they say, "Your brother just told me." 947 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,349 - 'It's a little annoying.' - [David] 'It's funny.' 948 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,799 'It's a little annoying, it's unnerving.' 949 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,436 [David] Being in business with my brothers 950 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,949 damaged our relationship. 951 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,597 There were conflicting work ethics, 952 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,713 and my father had passed away. 953 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,392 He really anchored us together as a group 954 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,239 and kepi (he peace so lo speak, 955 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,159 They started to argue like kids would argue, you know. 956 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,511 And they didn't have that opportunity, 957 00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,518 that gilt of being able to be brothers for 18 years. 958 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,680 When you are living in a family of children 959 00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,270 you learn how w adjust to each other. 960 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,951 If I don't like the way you do this, I can get angry, 961 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,038 or I can learn to compromise. 962 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,995 But they met as adults. 963 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,999 And had never learned how to live with each other. 964 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,078 As things went on, things go! more complicated, 965 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,238 and as things got more complicated, 966 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,238 what ended up happening was I left. 967 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,680 [David] When Bobby left the business 968 00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,918 Eddy and I felt that we were being betrayed. 969 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,715 Bobby felt that he was being pushed out. 970 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:54,314 Either way, it did major, major damage to the relationship. 971 00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,590 [Alan] I think that took an extreme loll on Eddy 972 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,076 more sothan I think David and Bobby. 973 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,679 Eddy was always the one 974 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:09,634 who just wanted to have everybody he at peace together, 975 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,671 and Eddy was, was very upset about it. 976 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,234 He was kind oi crushed about it. Ii was eating at him. 977 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,120 [Brenda] He dearly loved them, 978 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,197 and he wanted his brothers to be together. 979 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,313 He was just not really sure how lo deal with it all. 980 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:30,709 You're just seeing a lat more kind of up and down behaviors, 981 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,234 erratic behaviors. 982 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,118 [Mrs Shanley] 'Eddy's growing a heard.' 983 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,958 'Fur face, that's me.' 984 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,354 [Brenda] 'Jeez, wake the child.' 985 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,358 [Mrs Shanley] 'Jamie, your daddy is fuzzy.' 986 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,439 You're just seeing a lot more unnatural highs and lows. 987 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:52,079 He would call people and... a! bizarre hours 01 the evening, 988 00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,112 and then they would say, 989 00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,229 "I haven't seen or heard from Eddy in ten years. 990 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,556 "Why is he picking up the telephone and calling me 991 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,477 "at two o'clock in the morning?" 992 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,399 You know, those are, those are signs. 993 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,795 This was just... this was more 994 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,349 than just somebody who needed counselling. 995 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,756 This was, like, really something very, very serious. 996 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,312 [David] He could be unbelievably chamuing. 997 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,998 'Hello? 998 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,112 Bu! the downswing was a lot of anger. 999 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,437 Er... there was just deep, deep darkness. 1000 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,195 [Brenda] Manic depression 1001 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,074 I think was what they eventually said. 1002 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,272 Il made sense in hindsight 1003 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,513 I didn't walk down the aisle 1004 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,278 thinking, you know, 1005 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:55,394 "I have a man who is suiferi ng from manic depression." 1006 00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,279 People will say, "How could you not know?", but... 1007 00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,438 ...he was so unique and so wonderful and special, 1008 00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:07,477 you just... that was Eddy, you know. 1009 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,390 I was advised that he needed to he in a... a facility. 1010 00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,755 I mean, I felt bad that I put him through this trauma 1011 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,473 of going into a psych ward 1012 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,750 because I had been in a psych ward and I know how hard I! is. 1013 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,839 When I was a kid, I spent my 16th birthday in a psych ward. 1014 00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,119 We all were really disturbed kids. 1015 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,232 We were all under psychiatric care when we were teenagers. 1016 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,194 [David] We all had very challenging 1017 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,716 and dysfunctional teenage years. 1018 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,069 Could we ask about personal. 1019 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,434 One of you were involved in a murder, 1020 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:05,629 is that right? 1021 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,113 Ah, it's uptn you guys. 1022 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:10,116 No. No. 1023 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:11,514 People Magazine... 1024 01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,951 One was accused of being involved in a murder. 1025 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,558 And it was me, 1026 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,718 who never met this person who was killed, 1027 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,752 never was present or anything like that. 1028 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,438 Il was peer pressure. 1029 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,040 Friends pressuring me into covering for them, 1030 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,071 telling a story for them lathe police 1031 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:31,713 and that pulled me right into it. 1032 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,558 I've never hurt anyone in my life. 1033 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,035 We know it, we can feel it. 1034 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,593 We can feel it. 1035 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:48,716 A lot of people in this study had dysfunctional childhoods 1036 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,115 and some mental problems 1037 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,357 and it raises questions, you know. 1038 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,518 If you are a person who has devoted your life, 1039 01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,951 like Dr Neubauer has to the study o! menial illness, 1040 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,994 then is that a factor that you are researching? 1041 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,679 'The story is incredible. This is a Disney movie.' 1042 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,711 'It's a little darker than a Disney movie.' 1043 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,913 When we first met we realized we had all these similarities, 1044 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,349 we had similar man nerisms, 1045 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,550 we both had studied film. 1046 01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,516 And then we also found out 1047 01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,949 we both had suffered from depression. 1048 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,119 So, this is the lefler 1049 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,596 that I received from Louise Wise Services. 1050 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,237 "You were born at 12.51 pm on October 919GB 1051 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,318 "to a 29-year-old Jewish single woman. 1052 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,000 "She was very intelligent with a high IO. 1053 01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,839 "She entered college on a merit scholarship 1054 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,510 "but emotional problems interrupted her attendance, 1055 01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,393 "She had a history of voluntary hospitalizations 1056 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,477 "for emotional problems. 1057 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,318 "Although I have not been able lo locate 1058 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,433 "the original medical reports, secondary sources noted 1059 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,915 "that your mother's diagnosis was schizophrenia." 1060 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,114 It was really disturbing to read that my birth mother 1061 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,630 had been in and out of institutions. 1062 01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,752 I started finding out more 1063 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,038 about the other twins and triplets in the study, 1064 01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,594 and it turns out that not only had many of them 1065 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,320 struggled with mental health problems. 1066 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,240 But that their birth parents had mental health issues. 1067 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,272 And their adoptive families had never been told. 1068 01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,194 [Interviewer] How possible is it 1069 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,756 that your mother had mental health issues? 1070 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:51,873 Er... I don't think they were severe. 1071 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,515 L, I think that she was, er... 1072 01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:01,397 She may have had some minor, minor issues, er... 1073 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,156 She may have had some, a little bit more than minor issues. 1074 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,989 Were (he scientists purposefully choosing children 1075 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,237 whose biological parents had a mental illness, 1076 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,479 and placing them into different homes 1077 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,912 to see, is mental illness hereditable. 1078 01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,313 [David] Eddy was in the hospital 1079 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,431 for I think it was three weeks. 1080 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,474 And then he came back to work at the restaurant. 1081 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,957 I wasn't there. David was with him, all the time. 1082 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,270 I think maybe he can give you better detail about it. 1083 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,438 I was running the kitchen. 1084 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,756 Eddy wasn't in. I was running the kitchen, 1085 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,438 he was running the from 01 the house. 1086 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,278 That's the way it worked. 1087 01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,915 And I didn't know where he was, and he lived across the street. 1088 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,871 [Janet] So, David called me from the restaurant 1089 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,039 and he asked me to look out the window 1090 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,710 to see if Eddy's car was in the driveway, 1091 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,717 because if it were in (he driveway, 1092 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,398 we knew that he was home. 1093 01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,070 So, (he car was in the driveway, 1094 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:37,069 and I said to David, er... 1095 01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,556 "Do you want me to go over there?" 1096 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,798 And David said, "Yes." 1097 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:46,433 [Clears throat] 1098 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,837 And she called me back a few minutes later 1099 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,076 and her voice was trembling and shaking. 1100 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,509 She said, "You've gotta come home." 1101 01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,517 And I said, "Why?" 1102 01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,279 And she said, "Please, you've just gotta come home." 1103 01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,313 Er... 1104 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:09,237 And I, er... I pulled up we lived across the street. 1105 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,238 Ipulled up, kind of, just... cop cars were all there 1106 01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,159 and I just kind of, pulled up on... you know, 1107 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,476 blocking half the street, left the door open 1108 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,670 and started running into the house 1109 01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,554 and the cops grabbed me and they wouldn't let me come in. 1110 01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,511 They said, "You don't, you don't wanna see this. 1111 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,120 "You can't see this, you don't wanna see this. 1112 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,720 "You, you don't wanna see this." 1113 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,673 And that's when I knew he was gone. 1114 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,676 I told Bobby, "I need to talk to you." 1115 01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,949 And it's as if he, he kind o! knew. 1116 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,393 He kind of knew, before the words came out of my mouth. 1117 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,954 Eddy committed suicide. 1118 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,994 Eddy shot himself. 1119 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,516 He look his own life. 1120 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:22,797 I don't remember who told us. I just remember darkness. 1121 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:34,359 Buried him on Father's Day, I gave the eulogy, 1122 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,394 and I don't remember everything I said, 1123 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,911 but I do remember saying (ha! my brother Eddy 1124 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,952 could light up a room with his smile. 1125 01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,270 W“? Edd? wh ' I' Edd ? why not n19? Y 1126 01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,516 I've asked myself that a hundred times. 1127 01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,996 I'd rather it was me than Eddy. 1128 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,999 I, I don't know why Eddy and why no! me. 1129 01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,429 Maybe just because... 1130 01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,039 I don'! know, I just don't know. 1131 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,232 L, I, I can't answer this. 1132 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,034 [Interviewer] Thank you, Bobby. 1133 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,151 Oh, you're welcome. 1134 01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:25,632 [David] I'd like to know the lruth about the experiment. 1135 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:32,154 My understanding, within this small group of twins 1136 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:33,838 that were separated and studied, 1137 01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,831 (here was more than one suicide. 1138 01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,713 It's almost impossible just to be a coincidence. 1139 01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,954 Given Eddy's mental illness... 1140 01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,751 ...who knows what's in their DNA. 1141 01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,398 [David] If they have anything conclusive 1142 01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:02,876 that is in any way predicting anything in the future 1143 01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,197 that I need to know about, I wanna know about it. 1144 01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,672 [Bobby] There is still so much that we don't know. 1145 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,876 I have more questions than I have answers. 1146 01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,717 [Wright] One v1 the things about being a joumalisi 1147 01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,479 is that you don't know what you are gonna find out. 1148 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,955 Sometimes you know what you didn't find out 1149 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,073 which is frustrating like with this story. 1150 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,239 Well, I didn't get to the bottom of it 1151 01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,430 because I never got to see the study. 1152 01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:48,278 As no one has, you know. 1153 01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,470 That would be the bottom of it. 1154 01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,557 But that's why this is so tantalizing. 1155 01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:06,118 Here's the research that I kept 1156 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,754 from when I was writing about twins. 1157 01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,076 It's been a while since I've had a look at this box. 1158 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,430 Oh, this is interesting. 1159 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,356 Mini cassettes. 1160 01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:28,519 Before he passed away I managed to talk to Dr Neubauer. 1161 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,437 He was reluctant, 1162 01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:34,269 he had not ever spoken about it to my knowledge. 1163 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,880 All right, M's see what he has to say. 1164 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,031 [Switches player on] 1165 01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,391 'OK, I've got it on now. 1166 01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,909 'How did (his study come about?' 1167 01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,234 [Neubauer] 'I tell you, 1168 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,079 'I would rather not want to speak about it.' 1169 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,919 [Wright] 'Oh, really? Why?' 1170 01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,349 [Neubauer] 'Until we have published it.' 1171 01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,279 [Wright] 'Oh, uh-huh. When do you plan to publish it?' 1172 01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,950 [Neubauer] 'Well, maybe, we would publish 1173 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,958 'in about a year, a year and a half from now.' 1174 01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,718 [Wright] He was certainly illusive, 1175 01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,990 he was protecting something. 1176 01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,749 'Well, tell me a little bit about the scope of the study 1177 01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,918 'and how many people were involved in it?' 1178 01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,476 [Neubauer] 'The study was only based on a small number 1179 01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,912 'of identical twins separated at birth, 1180 01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:25,110 'for many, many reasons. 1181 01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,436 'I don! want to talk about that now. 1182 01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:31,269 'We had to stop it because it became too expensive.' 1183 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,119 [Wright] 'Who was your primary support?' 1184 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,549 [Neubauer] 'Oh. some private family foundations. 1185 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:37,999 [inaudible] 1186 01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,634 'We gm some money from Washington.' 1187 01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,718 [Wright] 'OK.' 1188 01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,469 Private charities and Washington, what does (ha! mean? 1189 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,273 And I don't know where theirfunding came from. 1190 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:52,674 [Wright] 'OK, (hanks again for your time.' 1191 01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:53,676 [Neuhauer] 'Bye! 1192 01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:57,475 [End of recording] 1193 01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,080 [Wright] I think that there's a great deal of sensitivity 1194 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,316 about this story. 1195 01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,158 There's a lot of powerful people 1196 01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,352 who would like to have this story silenced. 1197 01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:11,879 [Interviewer] What happened to the study 1198 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:13,638 as far as you're aware? 1199 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,991 Before Neubauer died in 2008, 1200 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,316 he left all (he research materials 1201 01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,079 in an archive at Vale University. 1202 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:29,511 Neubauer placed it under seal, for decades and decades. 1203 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:34,031 So far as I know nobodfs been able to access it. 1204 01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,038 [David] Er... what do we have here? 1205 01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:45,993 Wow. 1206 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,834 This is the Vale University website, and this appears to be 1207 01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:54,678 the Guide to Adoption Study Records 1208 01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,075 of the Child Development Center. 1209 01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,956 68 boxes filled with information: 1210 01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,392 charts, films and tapes and research findings. 1211 01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:09,034 Home visits, that's a big one. 1212 01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:13,199 It says that the dates of the study were from 1960 to 1980. 1213 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:18,076 I guess our reunion, kind of closed the study. 1214 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,112 "Information about access. 1215 01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:25,996 "The records are restricied until 2065." 1216 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,718 It's sealed! 1217 01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,958 So, they did all that they did 1218 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,799 to have this whole list tucked away 1219 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:43,835 in a dusty library somewhere, where nobody can touch it. 1220 01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,477 "Researchers wishing to use these records 1221 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:50,874 "before this date must secure 1222 01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,797 "written authorization from the Jewish Board 1223 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,797 "of Family and Children's Services." 1224 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,393 The Jewish Board was the parent organization 1225 01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:07,673 of the Child Development Center run by Peter Neubauer. 1226 01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,634 My understanding is that 1227 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,877 they are a very, very powerful organization 1228 01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,709 with very deep political connections, 1229 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,719 [Calling tone] 1230 01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,194 [Receptionist] 'Thank you for calling 1231 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,312 'the Jewish Board of Family and Children Services.' 1232 01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,510 [Man] 'Hello! 1233 01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,996 Yes, hi. My name is David Kellman, er... 1234 01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,432 and apparently, I was a, one of the subjects of a study, 1235 01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:39,598 run by the Child Development Center many years ago, 1236 01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,359 and it's being kept at Yale University. 1237 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:46,030 - [Man] Wes?' - And on their website it says 1238 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:48,435 that I would need permission from (he board 1239 01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:51,040 in order to gain access to those records, 1240 01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,596 and somehow (he receptionist gal me to you. 1241 01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,870 [Man] 'Huh. 0K. Er... 1242 01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,719 'I'm not aware of any of that stufl or when the study was, 1243 01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:00,955 'hut I can...' 1244 01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,354 There have been a number of journalists 1245 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,710 and as far as I know, some of the twins 1246 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,558 that were involved in (his study 1247 01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,876 who have tried to gain access to this material. 1248 01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:21,834 So far as I know they haven't been able lo see 1249 01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,440 the results of this study. 1250 01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:27,313 Is there a way that I can go directly to someone 1251 01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,397 that would he able to provide access to me, 1252 01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:31,750 as I was one of the subjects within the study? 1253 01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,555 If anybody should have the right to see all this material, 1254 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:36,999 it's the people that were actually 1255 01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:38,394 the subject oi the study. 1256 01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:40,078 They should know what was learned. 1257 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,118 [Man] 'I mean, I have no idea 1258 01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:47,393 'who would even be the one to ask right now. 1259 01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:48,953 'I would need to look into that.' 1260 01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,516 OK, so you're the first line of delense, so (o speak. 1261 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,358 - [Man] 'l guess, yeah.' - [Both chuckle] 1262 01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,756 OK, I will send an email to you. I'll pulaflhe subject line, 1263 01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,759 is going to be, er... "Twin Studies". 1264 01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,155 [Man] 'Gotcha! 1265 01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:09,269 [David] Louise Wise Services is long closed. 1266 01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:13,199 Peter Neubauer passed away. 1267 01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,037 And yet we still don! know exactly 1268 01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:23,916 what they were looking for, or what they found out. 1269 01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,117 [Perlman] I'm a Clinical Psychologist 1270 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:52,634 and I was a research assistant on Peter Neuhauefs study. 1271 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,593 I believe I am the only person 1272 01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:57,631 who worked on this study 1273 01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,273 who is willing 1274 01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,914 to go on record 1275 01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:03,394 about what was done. 1276 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,353 I was 24. 1277 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,711 This is essentially my first job. 1278 01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:21,272 You know, you had to be careful to not let on that, er... 1279 01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:25,393 "Gee, you lookjust like your, your twin brother." 1280 01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:30,435 I would've been fired on the spot, right? 1281 01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:32,039 Il was a little tempting, yeah, 1282 01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,593 there was, there was a little bit of temptation. 1283 01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:37,076 It's like, "Hey, I, I know your twin. 1284 01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:43,196 "I saw somebody a week ago who was exactly like you." 1285 01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,749 The question whether I feel guilty is interesting 1286 01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:54,317 because I never felt a responsibility. 1287 01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,270 I came on after this was designed. 1288 01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,397 However. I was a participant, 1289 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:05,991 so you could say I was ethically compromised by (hat. 1290 01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:12,912 In retrospect I think it was undoubtedly ethically wrong. 1291 01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,756 I got some notes here. OK. 1292 01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:21,873 OK. 1293 01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:27,431 [Sighs] 1294 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,280 These are my actual original notes, 1295 01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:36,756 copies of psychologicals (ha! I did. 1296 01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,031 [Interviewer] And who in, who in particular are in these files? 1297 01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,390 Well, I have the triplets. 1298 01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,549 Hmm... Oh, here we go. 1299 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,160 I, I'm not gonna mention the name. but, er... 1300 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:51,554 [Clears throat] 1301 01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:53,477 "He's a loud, energetic boy. 1302 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,477 "His need to establish his autonomy 1303 01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,079 "takes to the form of showing off, 1304 01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,714 "both his intelligence and his strength, 1305 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,355 "and putting clown others including his parents." 1306 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,350 Yeah, this one's eager to show off his new bicycle 1307 01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,349 and all of his sports equipment while I filmed him. 1308 01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,119 He was very intense in his play 1309 01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:22,394 and got quite... rough. 1310 01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:24,192 This kid had some problems. 1311 01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,269 Hyper aggressiveness. 1312 01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:32,435 OK, so apparently, 1313 01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:33,834 these parents are not cognizant 1314 01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,315 of his problems, nor are they able to help him 1315 01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:37,873 understand his weaknesses 1316 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,470 and establish more appropriate control over his actions. 1317 01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,832 So, I didn't think the parents were very tuned in 1318 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,520 to the struggles this youngster was having. 1319 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,397 What were (he findings of [he study? 1320 01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:59,389 I have no idea because I left the study after 10 months 1321 01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:02,791 and the results were never published, 1322 01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,518 All I have is my Iiltle, tiny piece. 1323 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,110 It's a mystery, it's a huge loss. 1324 01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,555 All this important scientific data 1325 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,434 is just buried in these archives. 1326 01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:21,595 [Interviewer] So, some people have speculated 1327 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,280 that the purpose of the study, ultimate purpose, 1328 01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,197 was looking at mental health. 1329 01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:32,350 I... there was, there was never a mention of mental health 1330 01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:38,874 of the biological parents when I was in the study. 1331 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:43,438 We were not interested in mental health, 1332 01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:46,359 that's no! what we were interested in. 1333 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,040 We were looking for differences in parenting. 1334 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,594 We wanted to understand parenting practices 1335 01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,075 and how it would affect development. 1336 01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,717 So, you're saying they were interested more 1337 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:05,637 in the family dynamics? 1338 01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,832 But they couldn't have known that. The}; didn't know 1339 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,837 how the families were going to interact 1340 01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,235 with this newly-adopted child. 1341 01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,556 The only way they could possibly know 1342 01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,836 about (he family dynamics 1343 01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:21,999 was if they already had a child placed in that family. 1344 01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,951 [Newsreader] 'Another astonishing coincidence 1345 01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,071 'in this story is that each of the brothers 1346 01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,953 'grew up in iheir families with an adopted sister, 1347 01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,231 'all the girls now 21 years old.' 1348 01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,159 [Camera shutter clicks] 1349 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,477 [Perlman] The triplets, they all had an older sibling. 1350 01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:39,715 They were placed in families 1351 01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,229 where there was an older adopted child 1352 01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,159 that had been placed with, by Louise Wise. 1353 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,469 That was pan of the design. 1354 01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,600 It's good to see you. 1355 01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,790 It's good to see you. 1356 01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,516 [Interviewer] I'd just like to show you guys a clip. 1357 01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,713 It's Lawrence Perlman, who was a Researcher on the study. 1358 01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,509 [Perlman] 'What were the findings of the study? 1359 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,509 'I have no idea because they were never published. 1360 01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,791 'We were looking for differences in parenting. 1361 01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,073 'We wanted to understand parenting practices 1362 01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:41,872 'and how it would affect development. 1363 01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,275 'The triplets were placed in families 1364 01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,960 'where (here was an older adopted child 1365 01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,959 'that had been placed with, by Louise Wise. 1366 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,870 'Thai was pan of the design.' 1367 01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,957 [Interviewer] How do you feel watching that? 1368 01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,994 - [Sniggers] - Like a lab rat. 1369 01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:08,070 It, it only just makes it that much... it just only... 1370 01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:09,440 ll just makes it... 1371 01:23:09,480 --> 01:23:12,199 - That much worse. - ...much more duplicitous. 1372 01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:14,275 Er... 1373 01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:15,799 They're not just studying the kids, 1374 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,037 but they're studying (he parents. 1375 01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:23,950 So, they did in fact know the parenting style of each parent. 1376 01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,274 So, this was not, you know... 1377 01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,358 Obviously it was far from a random selection. 1378 01:23:28,440 --> 01:23:32,354 They knew exactly who (hey had chosen 1379 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:38,237 lo place each one of us with when they called the Gallands, 1380 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,989 and the Kellmans, and the Shafrans. 1381 01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,913 In terms of how they parented their children 1382 01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:56,553 (he three families 1383 01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,160 were quite, quite diflerenl. 1384 01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:00,918 Er... 1385 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,759 David's father stood out. 1386 01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,474 There was nobody in the world like his son. 1387 01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:12,476 He was so proud of him. Whatever he did was wonderful. 1388 01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:18,630 Bobby's father was very busy as a doctor 1389 01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:23,516 and didn't have the time to he with Bobby 1390 01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,676 that David's father had, 1391 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:29,395 but was as devoted to him as possible. 1392 01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,193 The most traditional was Eddy's father... 1393 01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:40,637 ...who was rather strict. He was (he boss. 1394 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,758 He made the rules and Eddy was supposed to follow. 1395 01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,635 Eddy's relationship with his father... 1396 01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:55,279 ...il couldn't have been good. 1397 01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:02,475 And that mailers. 1398 01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,672 [Interviewer] And why do you say it couldn't have been good? 1399 01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:10,476 Because otherwise, I would have known him, 1400 01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,874 we would have seen him, 1401 01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:15,316 Eddy would have talked about him. 1402 01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:32,278 This was the last picture we ever had of Edward. 1403 01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,470 He was very gregarious. 1404 01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,353 He got into all the things young hays do. 1405 01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,596 He wrecked a car 1406 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,599 and a few things like that, but... 1407 01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:48,476 I mean, occasionally ldisciplined him. 1408 01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:53,230 [Brenda] Eddy and his dad were very different as people. 1409 01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:58,673 Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid, you know, he wasn't into sports. 1410 01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,838 Elliott had a very strong militaristic 1411 01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,157 kind oi approach to life, very traditional. 1412 01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,760 He was a teacher, he was all about punctuality. 1413 01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:13,960 I was a strict disciplinarian, 1414 01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,312 and my children unfortunately 1415 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,119 had me as a strict disciplinarian too. 1416 01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:26,511 [Brenda] Eddy said he always sort of didn't feel 1417 01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:30,713 like he fit in with his family. 1418 01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:38,797 He always felt like, like he wasn't in the right place. 1419 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:44,797 [Interviewer] How much did you have any sense 1420 01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:48,356 that Edward was unhappy? 1421 01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:51,916 He didn't discuss his problems with me. 1422 01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:59,994 We were a rather quiet family. 1423 01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:05,035 We didn't tell our problems to one another. 1424 01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:11,831 We protected each other. ll was a nice family. 1425 01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,232 Some people are just no! a good fit. 1426 01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:28,517 It wasn't his father's fault. 1427 01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:34,636 Elliot did what he believed to be best as a parent. 1428 01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,877 They were just different people. 1429 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:43,040 I got the phone call from... I believe it was Bobby. 1430 01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:47,233 And he told me to sit down 1431 01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,238 and I said no need to. 1432 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:53,557 And he told me about it. 1433 01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:58,800 And then standing right there 1434 01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,151 I went over to my wife 1435 01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:07,070 and told her Edward had committed suicide. 1436 01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:12,115 And we stood there for quite a while, crying. 1437 01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:23,035 And... that was it. 1438 01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:40,150 I often wondered whether I didn't teach him something... 1439 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,236 "because of the way he left. 1440 01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,040 I don't know. 1441 01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,391 Maybe I didn't teach him something, 1442 01:28:52,440 --> 01:28:55,831 how to live life or something. 1443 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,430 Thai bothers me occasionally. 1444 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:14,590 [Ellen] Why did the boys' lives turn out completely different? 1445 01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:16,119 I don't need to read any hooks, 1446 01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:18,515 I don't need to read any studies. 1447 01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,073 I saw I! first hand with those three boys. 1448 01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:29,351 It's all about nurture. 1449 01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,519 [Audience applauds] 1450 01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:44,914 'These three young men 1451 01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,679 'they are all seated in the same position.' 1452 01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:48,949 [Audience laughing] 1453 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,559 [Schneider] We found a lot of similariiies 1454 01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,240 because that's what people were looking for. 1455 01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:54,873 They smoke the same kind 01 cigarettes. 1456 01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:56,194 You say, "Oh my God, 1457 01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,800 'They're smoking Marlboros, that's amazing.' 1458 01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,229 What you're not looking for are their differences. 1459 01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,237 'I can't get over it, I'm telling you. 1460 01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:04,714 'You all wrestled at one time?' 1461 01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:05,830 [Triplets] 'Yes.' 1462 01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,753 We found the ways (ha! we were alike 1463 01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,196 and we emphasized them and we wanted to he alike. 1464 01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,673 We were falling in love with each other. 1465 01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:20,236 [Brenda] I think there were superficialities. 1466 01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:24,274 They liked the same things and they had similar interests, 1467 01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,199 but deep down they were different. 1468 01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:33,954 They were not a case study of biology being destiny. 1469 01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,719 I've come to believe genes and the environment 1470 01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:46,230 are close competitors. 1471 01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,718 You could say that we drift in (he direction 1472 01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:55,719 that our genes (ell us to go 1473 01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,400 but it doesn't mean you are destined 1474 01:30:58,440 --> 01:31:01,432 to be one person or another. 1475 01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:10,318 [David] I believe that I'm still here today 1476 01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:14,758 because of (he foundation that was given to me by my parents. 1477 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:19,317 I believe that absolutely made a difference 1478 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:21,237 in terms of snuggling 1479 01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,112 with whatever demons I struggle with. 1480 01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:31,351 [Hedy] I believe nature and nurture both matter. 1481 01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:38,989 Bu! I think nurture can overcome nearly everything. 1482 01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,673 Because the sludy's never been published 1483 01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,677 we simply don't know definitively 1484 01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:22,038 how many people's lives were separated in this fashion. 1485 01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:23,639 There may still be twins out there 1486 01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,433 who still don'! know (hey are twins. 1487 01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:31,719 There are probably at least four individuals 1488 01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,036 who were subjects of (his study 1489 01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:37,869 who don't know that they have a twin. 1490 01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,231 If they know that there are still twins out there 1491 01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:46,593 that are missing out on life, it boggles the mind. 1492 01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:48,756 There's two ways of thinking about it. 1493 01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,077 These people really should know (ha! there is a twin, 1494 01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,589 or, "Oh my God, these people should not know 1495 01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:59,032 "that they were used this way, that will make them so upset." 1496 01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:03,199 Maybe this is why the study cannot be published as yet, 1497 01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,390 until they're gone. 1498 01:33:07,480 --> 01:33:09,790 Il really opens up the possibility. 1499 01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,956 Anybody can just walk around the comer 1500 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,675 and discover that you have a twin out there. 119104

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