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[Bobby] When I tell people
my story
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00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,880
they don't believe it.
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00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,638
I guess I wouldn't believe
the story
4
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,310
if someone else were telling
it, but, I'm telling it
5
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,318
and it's true,
every word of it.
6
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,150
Il started when I was born,
56 years ago,
7
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,716
but the real story
began when I was 19 years old
8
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,558
and I went to college.
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00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,116
[I RAINBOW:
"Since You've Been Gone]
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[Bobby] It was 1980.
ll was the firs! day 01 school
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00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,872
at Sullivan County Community
College up in the Catskills,
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00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,036
about 110 miles
from where I grew up.
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00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,037
So, I drove up there alone.
14
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,310
I I gel the same old dreams
15
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,317
I Same time every night
16
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,078
I Fall (o the ground
and I wake up...
17
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,431
I used to have this really
old car. ll was a Volvo.
18
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,553
And it was
a 1970 Volvo.
19
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,750
Had like 130,000 miles on it.
20
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,553
And the car was burgundy
and the hood was green.
21
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,910
Actually, (he car was called
the Old Bitch.
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00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,951
I Since you been gone
23
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,037
I Since you been gone
24
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,514
I I'm out of my head... J“
25
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,315
But the Old Bitch got me there.
26
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,352
Sullivan was
a community college.
27
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,598
This wasn't some longstanding
institution of higher learning.
28
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,713
All these station wagons
are dropping kids off.
29
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,671
I was nervous,
I'd just gotten to the school,
30
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,679
I didn't know anybody.
I was a freshman.
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00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,076
I was never the captain of the
football team in high school,
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00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,551
so I was never really
like popular.
33
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,479
So, I'm walking around
trying to find where my dorm is.
34
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,636
Meanwhile all these people
are coming up to me
35
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,079
saying "Hi, how are you?"
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00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:41,995
"How was your summer?"
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00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,917
"Mine was great.
How was yours?" "Super."
38
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,917
Why are they asking me
how my summer was? I don! know.
39
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,271
Everybodfs being
extremely friendly to me
40
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,833
and they're going
out of their way to do it.
41
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,678
I don't mean just a 'hi',
42
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,109
I mean, claps on the hack
and high fives.
43
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,915
And I was a little hit
bewildered by this
44
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,554
because no one gets
this kind of a welcome
45
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,829
on their firs! day at school.
46
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,510
And girls were kissing me,
47
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,793
like fully kissing me saying,
"I'm so glad you came hack."
48
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,797
And I was saying 'thank you'
and 'hello' back
49
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,315
but I had never been (here
before and I didn't know them.
50
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,839
L! was bizarre.
51
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,679
And the next thing I heard
from right behind me.
52
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,236
'Welcome back. Eddy!"
53
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,590
"Eddy! How are you'!
Eddy, hi!"
54
00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,074
I'm like, "My name's not Eddy.
I don't know
55
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,077
'what you're talking about.
I just got up here."
56
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,633
"Sure, Eddy,
you're really funny,
57
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,159
'you're really funny,
real funny."
58
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,316
I'm like, "I'm not Eddy.
I don't know who Eddy is."
59
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,876
'Welcome hack, Eddy",
they were all saying.
60
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,959
I finally made it
to this dump of a dorm room.
61
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,320
Before a minute had gone by...
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00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,714
[Knock on door]
63
00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,593
..."Who now? Who now
is gonna come to find Eddy?"
64
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,039
I had been at college
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00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,117
the previous year
with Eddy, and I knew
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00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,629
that he wasn't
coming back to school.
67
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,275
[Knock on door]
68
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,072
As soon as this guy
turned around, I...
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00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,839
I was, I was actually shaking.
70
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,669
I was... I know all color
from my face dropped
71
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,597
cos I knew it was his double.
72
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,909
He had the same grin, the same
hair, the same expressions.
73
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,031
It was his double.
74
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,835
And I see this guy's face
and he's like...
75
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,477
...just standing there.
76
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,549
The first thing out of my mouth
was 'Were you adopted?"
77
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,750
Er... and I was like, "Yes."
78
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,397
lsaid, "ls your birthday
July 12th?" He. said yes.
79
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,954
I was like, "July 12th 1961."
80
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,150
"Oh my God", I said,
"You're no! gonna believe this."
81
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,840
I said, "You have a twin
brother. You have a twin."
82
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,316
"Oh my God."
83
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,113
I said. "Come with me."
84
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,039
And the two of us are crammed
into (h is phone booth.
85
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,754
Shoulder to shoulder
and you know, we had to like,
86
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:04,995
close the door
of the phone booth.
87
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,950
And I'm trying
to put the coins in
88
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,320
and they keep falling
on the floor
89
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,354
and Bobby's picking up
(he coins.
90
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,959
And he calls this guy
and he's like,
91
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,434
"Hey, Eddy, you're not
gonna believe this,
92
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,709
"you're not gonna believe this.
93
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,034
"Eddy, Eddy, you are not
gonna believe this."
94
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,675
This guy's more hysterical
than I am like weirded out.
95
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:25,875
"Eddy, you are not
gonna believe this."
96
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,194
So I was like,
"Give me the phone."
97
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,311
So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?"
"Yes."
98
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,718
But it was my voice
that said, "Yes."
99
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,355
And I said, "Hi, Eddy,
my name is Robert Shafran
100
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,397
"and, er... I'm meeting
all these people
101
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,999
"who say I'm you."
102
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,156
And he said, “Uh-huh, yeah,
I've been getting some calls."
103
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,353
I said, "Were you adopted?"
and he said, "Yes."
104
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,516
And I said,
"When was your birthday?"
105
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,278
"July 12th."
106
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,357
And I said, "Do you know what
the name of the agency was?"
107
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,994
And he said, "No, hold on."
108
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,758
And I heard him go like, "Mom?"
109
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:07,516
And he came hack and he said,
"Louise Wise Services."
110
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,669
Sometimes when you
are just having a dream,
111
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,075
you know this can'! be real,
this can't be real.
112
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,509
But you know (here's nothing
you can do to slop it,
113
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,392
start it, change it,
you just go with it
114
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:19,834
and that's
what I was doing.
115
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,757
I just wanted to see
what was gonna happen next.
116
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,396
Nu'. I'm “he, “his go.
Let's gamed Eddy!'
117
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,909
[I Rock music]
118
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,917
So we gm into the Old Bitch.
119
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,995
[Revs engine]
120
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,117
It was about
9 o'clock a! night
121
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,514
and it's about a two-hour ride.
122
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,598
And we were speeding
on route 17.
123
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,320
We were going 100 miles
per hour, perhaps more.
124
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,920
We were speeding.
125
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,837
We're driving as fast
as (his car would go.
126
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,918
Il was shaking.
127
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,759
And we go! pulled over
by a New York Stale trooper.
128
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,110
[Sirens wailing]
129
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,196
And as I roll down my window
(here's this gigantic cop
130
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,709
with like the sunglasses
even though it's night time.
131
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,114
In the big hat.
132
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,074
He said, "You know,
lclocked you at BB in a 50.
133
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,993
"Son, you better have
a really good reason."
134
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,593
And I was like,
135
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,438
"Well, Officer, you're never
gonna believe this."
136
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,836
The two of us are like
yelling at this guy.
137
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,115
"You, you don't know,
138
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,958
'this guy, this guy
has a Min brother,
139
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,879
"he was adopted and we're going
to Long Island to go see..."
140
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,675
And, and, and the guy was,
"Yeah, right." You know.
141
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,791
"Here's, here's your ticket
have a good day."
142
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,994
And onto Long Island
we went.
143
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,910
[Bobby] So, we go! there.
144
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,792
But it's like,
the middle of the night.
145
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,034
And ifs this really
quiet neighborhood.
146
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,116
So, we get out of the car.
147
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,834
And walk up this little path
to the house.
148
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,432
And the lights were on
in the house.
149
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,598
And I reached out
to knock on the door
150
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,758
and as I reached out
to knock on the door it opens.
151
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,952
And there I am.
152
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,560
His eyes were my eyes
and my eyes were his eyes
153
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,876
and it's true.
154
00:08:34,560 --> 00:08:37,518
[Michael] They looked
exactly alike.
155
00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:40,393
They're duplicates
o! each other.
156
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,829
There was no doubt in my mind
that (hey were twins.
157
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,838
He's going, "Oh my God."
I'm going, "Oh my God."
158
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,197
He's going, "Holy crap."
I'm going, "Holy crap."
159
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,595
They just looked at each other
and they moved...
160
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,270
Every time Bobby moved
his head, Eddy moved
161
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,995
and then Eddy would move
and then Bobby would move,
162
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,190
like, like they were
looking at a mirror.
163
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,072
L! was the weirdest thing.
164
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,272
Il was like the world
faded away,
165
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,153
and it was just me
and Eddy.
166
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,350
So, I'm in the newsroom,
it's the middle of a busy day,
167
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,118
we got a call {rum somebody
168
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,595
who says they have an
amazing story to tell us,
169
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,678
we are not gonna
believe this story,
170
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,917
and my first reaction,
"Ah, it's a hoax."
171
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,954
So, Hold our reporter,
"I wanna rem a plane."
172
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,911
In those days we had
enough money to do this.
173
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,238
"I wanna rent a plane, I wanna
see these two kids face to lace
174
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,554
"or I don't believe this."
175
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,110
We flew lhejoumalist up
to Sullivan Community College
176
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,710
and he called me and he said,
"Howie, it's true, it's true.
177
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,878
And I remember saying, "Oh my
God, this is a great story.
178
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,959
"This is a memorable
heart-warming story."
179
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,233
And then the story went from
being amazing to incredible, OK,
180
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,759
from amazing to incredible.
181
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,396
[Ellen] I was
on the New York Subway.
182
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,795
Quite late at night.
183
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:24,199
Read an article about two boys
who found each other.
184
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,072
That were twins
separated at birth
185
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,269
and found each other
186
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,914
alSullivan County
Community College.
187
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,793
There was no picture.
but the story was fascinating.
188
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,113
I came home,
and went to sleep.
189
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,714
My mother came into the room
190
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,832
and said, "Wake up, wake up,
I have to show you something."
191
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,030
And she shows me a newspaper
192
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,470
with a picture of two boys
193
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,160
and I had to like, focus
and I looked a! the photograph
194
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,237
and I said, "Is that David?"
195
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,195
And she's like, "No,
but look at (he hands.“
196
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:09,958
And I was like, "Holy mackerel.
This is beyond amazing."
197
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,436
It was a picture
in the newspaper of two guys,
198
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,598
in (he "Post" and
I picked up the picture
199
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,358
and I looked at it,
200
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,516
and I was like in shock,
201
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,269
cos the two guys in the "Post"
looked exactly, exactly
202
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,279
like, like my friend David.
I shred a! it.
203
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,596
And it wasn't even just
the look on their face.
204
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,438
It was the way that they
were holding their hands.
205
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,717
They have these big meaty hands.
And David always had this,
206
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,916
these hands
that looked like baseball mitts.
207
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:46,115
And when I saw their hands,
I just knew that this is David.
208
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,398
[David] It was just
a normal day.
209
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,750
I got to school,
ran into my buddy Alan.
210
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,633
He said, "David,
take a look a! this.“
211
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,115
And he's got a copy
of the "New York Post“.
212
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,310
And, er...
he opens it up
213
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,237
and says,
"Look a! this.
214
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:07,679
"Look, look familiar?"
Something to that efiecl.
215
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,189
And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure."
216
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,036
But then we looked at it
a little bit more closely.
217
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:19,549
It was an article, it said,
218
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,911
"Twins reunited
after more than 19 years."
219
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,430
And it had a picture of two
of what looked like me.
220
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,838
L! all started to sink in.
221
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,998
"Holy shit, oh my God.
222
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,634
"Do you? This is un...
this is not believable,
223
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:39,990
"this is, this is unbelievable.
Wow!
224
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,077
"This is big,
this is serious,
225
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,999
"this is just not some kind
of crazy coincidence.
226
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,316
"This is not
a minor resemblance.
227
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,237
'This is real,
this is happening,
228
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:50,873
"this is really,
really serious."
229
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,271
I ditched classes
and got home.
230
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,436
My mother was waiting
at the kitchen table
231
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,515
with a cup of coffee.
232
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,676
And I said, "Mom, you see this?"
233
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,634
She said, "You see this?" And
we kinda exchanged newspapers.
234
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,394
Il had, "...bom Long Island
Jewish Hospital."
235
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,954
"July 12th, 1961."
236
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,675
And it was Louise Wise
adoption agency.
237
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,678
Imean, I always knew growing
up that I was adopted,
238
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,836
My parents were always
open about it.
239
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,998
Bu! it said Eddy Galland
of New Hyde Park, Long Island,
240
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,316
Robert Shafran
of Scarsdale, New York.
241
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,794
I remember it said,
242
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,753
"Son oi prominent Scarsdale
physician Mort Shaimn"
243
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,916
and, er... my first thought,
I said,
244
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,951
"He's got the wealthy family.
245
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,160
"That 805's probably driving
a Benz! He go! a donor!"
246
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,711
[Alan] And I remember being
with David in (he kitchen.
247
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,156
We were like, really nervous.
248
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,238
I mean we were, you know,
jumping around, it was...
249
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,875
You know, we were 19 years old.
I mean this was surreal.
250
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,391
And David picked up the phone
and he called Information,
251
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,233
and he reached Eddy's mom.
252
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,157
And I said, "Hi, is Eddy home?"
253
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,113
She says, "No,
who's calling, please?"
254
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,719
And I thought, 'OK,
255
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,114
“now I've gotta go into
this whole thing on the phone."
256
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,518
lsaid, "Well, my name
is David Kellman,
257
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,552
"and I was born July 12th 1961
258
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,716
"and I'm looking
a! a newspaper
259
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,311
"and, er... basically I think
I'm looking at two of me.
260
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,397
"I think I might be the third."
261
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,239
And I think she dropped
the phone, actually.
262
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,796
And I remember hearing
her voice over the phone,
263
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,150
"Oh my God, they're coming out
of the woodwork!"
264
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,829
[Hedy] It was a miracle.
265
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,269
The first time
that the boys met together,
266
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,472
the three together
was at my house.
267
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,999
And the three of them ended up
268
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,749
like puppies wrestling
on the floor.
269
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,555
Il was the most
incredible...
270
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,352
it was the most
incredible thing.
271
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,277
They belonged to each other.
272
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,239
They knew each other. There
was no formal introduction.
273
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,557
I mean, when you meet somebody
for the first time
274
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,634
you don't end up rolling around
on the floor with them.
275
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,389
It was truly
no! fully believable.
276
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,517
Even though it was happening
it was still surreal.
277
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,437
You think you're dreaming.
278
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,074
You're looking and
you're still "Oh my God."
279
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,838
You look at the other one,
"Oh my God."
280
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,837
And then you realize
that they're looking at you
281
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,598
or everybody else
is looking at you loo.
282
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,200
To have all three of (hem
in the house at onetime...
283
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:36,674
[Gasps]
284
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,280
It... it was
really madness.
285
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,156
My emotions were shock,
shock and more shock.
286
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,717
I mean,
I can'! explain it,
287
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,360
I haven't got
the terminology.
288
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,794
One of our reporters came
running over to me and said
289
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,036
'You're not gonna believe (his,
290
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,313
"you are not gonna believe
the call we just got.
291
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,829
"You know the two kids
on the front page today?
292
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,190
"Well, there's a third."
293
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,834
They even moved (he same way.
294
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,794
All of us just sat back
295
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,710
and watched three separate
lives becoming one.
296
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,240
The way I put it was
297
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,715
I looked more like Eddy
than I did David,
298
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,990
and more like David
than I did Eddy,
299
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,032
and more like either of them
than they did like each other.
300
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,832
Does that make sense?
301
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,158
And then we started
comparing notes.
302
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,760
What do 19-year-olds compare?
303
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:53,391
Booze, cigarettes, food,
women, music, cars.
304
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,751
I had just broughta brand new
Mercury Capri, which I loved.
305
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,590
And Bobby had this,
Maroon beat up old Volvo
306
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,756
with cracked leather seats
and I'm thinking,
307
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,590
"Hmm, son of a prominent
Scarsdale physician, huh?"
308
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,755
[Schneider] I think
it was Eddy who said
309
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,393
right at the beginning,
310
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,879
"I don't know if this will turn
out to be great or terrible."
311
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,551
So, there was always a question
mark, a big question mark,
312
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,070
about where the story
eventually was going.
313
00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,158
We didn't realize
from (hen on
314
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,352
just how much
things were going to change.
315
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,596
'Now one of the most remarkable
stories I've seen in sometime:
316
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,675
'a story about triplets.
317
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,560
'Eddy and Robert and David
reunited after 19 years.'
318
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,830
'We have a story about triplets
that gives new meaning
319
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,393
'to the phrase
long lost brothers.'
320
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,676
We went on everything.
Everything.
321
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,313
'You're not seeing double
322
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,112
'you are perhaps in a moment
going to be seeing triple.'
323
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,434
'I don't know who's who here.
324
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,792
'Come on out here, gentlemen,
come on out.'
325
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,433
You just had to stop
what you're doing
326
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,832
and watch (hem
on every different show.
327
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,440
[Schneider] It became a circus,
it became a media circus.
328
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,359
Talk about viral, I mean this
was... it was viral even then.
329
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,676
'You guys have been on the
front page of every newspaper
330
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,916
- 'in the world.'
- [Triplets] True.'
331
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,752
"People Magazine",
'Time Magazine",
332
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,077
even the "New York Times",
"Good Housekeeping".
333
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,514
'David, let's begin with you.
334
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,675
'Which one': David,
I keep forgetting?'
335
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,119
- 'You're Edward?'
- 'Right!
336
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,389
'OK, who are you,
are you David?'
337
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,714
- 'I'm Bobby.'
- 'Oh, you're... I'm sorry.
338
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,394
'You're Robert, all right.
Robert and Edward.'
339
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,670
- [Audience laughing]
- 'Come on.'
340
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,669
ll was a fairy tale story.
341
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,156
And people need to hear
wonderful things.
342
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,191
'These three young men,
343
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,437
'they're all seated
in the same position.'
344
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,835
[Audience laughing]
345
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,713
It was kind of amazing.
They really were strangers.
346
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,955
They looked identical
to each other
347
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,798
but they were strangers, right?
348
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,239
You know, they really
didn't know one another.
349
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,318
But their behaviors
were so similar.
350
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,000
'Our lives are parallel
toa phenomenal degree.
351
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,951
'It's, it's ridiculous.'
352
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,479
'We're all the same,
353
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,840
'as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'
354
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,439
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'
355
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,800
'We always talk
a! the same time.'
356
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,638
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'
357
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,040
[Eddy] 'We all like
Chinese load.'
358
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:22,876
[Brokaw] 'You were all
wrestlers at one time?'
359
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,240
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
360
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,509
'You all smoke the same brand
of cigarettes?'
361
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,954
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
362
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,638
[Donahue] 'What kind
of cigarettes do you smoke?'
363
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,670
'Marlboro!
364
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,040
'Do you all smoke
the same brand?'
365
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,514
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
366
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,200
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- [Triplets] Wes.'
367
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,117
'Yeah, I was curious,
how's their taste in women,
368
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,720
- 'is it similar?'
- [Triplets] 'Yes. Definitely.'
369
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,398
[Audience laughing]
370
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,670
Il seems they all liked
older women.
371
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,836
'Somebody said
you all liked older women.'
372
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,359
[Triplets] 'Well...'
373
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,151
[Newsreader] 'Another
astonishing coincidence
374
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,352
'is that each of the brothers
grew up with an adoptive sister,
375
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,233
'all the girls
now 21 years old.'
376
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,033
[Camera shutter clicks]
377
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,832
'I can't get over it,
I (ell you.'
378
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,632
'An extraordinary string
o! coincidences
379
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,715
'you all have to agree,
right?'
380
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,989
'It's beautiful.'
381
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,314
[Interviewer] 'You say
you love each other,
382
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,078
'but you're only known each
other for such a short time.'
383
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:12,599
'Doesn't matter, I've known
them my whole life.'
384
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,472
'How long did it take for you
to have that feeling?'
385
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,840
- 'Like that.'
- [Triplets snap fingers]
386
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:20,474
[Schneider] They were
more like clones
387
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,070
than they were like brothers.
388
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:27,909
It was just absolutely
astounding because they grew up
389
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,349
it would appear to be
pretty different households.
390
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,469
We'd been adopted
by a blue-collar family,
391
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,036
a middle-class family
and a more affluent family.
392
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,269
Bobby's parents, Bobby's father
was a medical doctor.
393
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,433
And his mother was an attorney.
394
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,312
So they were very well educated
and they were living
395
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,554
in one of the most prestigious
areas of the country.
396
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,190
Eddy's father was a teacher,
he had a college education.
397
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,392
And they lived
in what would be considered
398
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,511
a middle-class neighborhood.
399
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:25,240
My family on paper
were the least educated,
400
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,195
they were immigrants, English
was a second language to them,
401
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,436
they had a little store,
402
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,429
they were the more
blue-collar family.
403
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,551
Hmm, but my father was just
404
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,356
this incredibly generous
warm guy.
405
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,234
David's father, Richard was,
uh... was larger than life.
406
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,956
If you could imagine this guy
was a big guy,
407
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,670
with a big cigar always
hanging out of his mouth.
408
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,319
We referred to him
as 'bubalai
409
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,237
[Ellen] He was Buhala.
410
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,033
If you know Yiddish,
'bubala' it's like love,
411
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,232
it's hugging and it's kissing.
412
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,396
[Bobby] We spent more time
a! David's house
413
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,750
than any place else.
414
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,556
Bubala celebrated us
like no other person.
415
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,432
He said, "I have two more sons."
416
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,639
When the boys found each other
417
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,479
it just sort
of happened
418
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,954
(hen and there.
419
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,798
Here is this
wonderful story
420
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,592
and that's it.
421
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,473
Nobody questioned
what was going on
422
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,238
except the parents of course.
423
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,832
When the families met up
(he first time
424
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,838
there was great anger
in all a! them
425
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,316
about the tact that the parents
had never been told
426
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,351
that there were
two other children.
427
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,594
[Elliott] They didn't tell us
a word when we were adopting.
428
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,790
We knew nothing
about the other two
429
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,311
until, er... the boys met
at, at school,
430
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,556
that was 20 years later.
431
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,200
[Hedy] The first thing
that hit me was what they lost.
432
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,676
I believe they were six months
old when they were separated.
433
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,395
If you imagine those three
little bodies lying together
434
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:31,709
and suddenlythe coldness
of being alone in a crib.
435
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,232
It's a terrible deprivation.
436
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,357
I remember being (old
by my mother
437
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,399
when I was a baby that I would
slam my head against the wall,
438
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,397
I would basically
knock myself out.
439
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,954
My mother said
that I would bang my head
440
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,434
on the inside of the crib...
441
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,230
...and I would hold my breath
until I passed out.
442
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,354
I believe it was absolutely
separation anxiety
443
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,836
All of us had been adopted
from Louise Wise Services.
444
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,871
[Reporter]
'Louise Wise Services,
445
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,312
'the New York institution
founded back in 1915
446
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,192
'overseen by a board
of directors
447
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,958
'drawn from New York City's
448
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,913
'social, financial
and political elite.'
449
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,477
They were the pre-eminent
adoption agency
450
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,753
on the East Coast
for Jewish babies in particular.
451
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,314
That was the place to go.
452
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,670
What we have felt
453
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,631
at Louise Wise
Services
454
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,159
where I have
been active
455
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,192
for a great
longtime,
456
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,232
is that adoptive parents
should be told
457
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,831
as much about the background
of a child as is reasonable.
458
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,839
Our parents they, they, they
wanted answers, they were angry.
459
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,839
And they arranged a meeting
and they... the six of them
460
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,875
went in to Louise Wise Agency
to try to get some answers
461
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,912
in terms of piecing together
what happened.
462
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,439
[Thunder clapping]
463
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:27,715
[Alice] There was a meeting with
the top brass at the agency.
464
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,512
And they were asked,
465
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,678
"Is it true that you separated
these boys at birth?"
466
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,430
And they said, 'Yes, we did."
467
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,672
Why?
468
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,790
How could you not tell us?
469
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,559
What did you do?
470
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,910
Why and how could you?
471
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,554
[Alice] They said the reason was
472
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,312
because it was hard to place
three children in one home.
473
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,397
The parents had been told that
474
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,512
it was in our best interests
that we'd been split up.
475
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,077
That not every parent
would welcome triplets,
476
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,990
and that triplets would be
difficult to place.
477
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,718
Which... I think at that moment
my father blew his shack.
478
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,832
And just said,
"We wouldWe taken all three.
479
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,829
'There's no question."
And he was furious.
480
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,394
[Sighs] Well, the meeting
came to an end.
481
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,716
[Thunder clapping]
482
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,398
[Bobby] They all left.
483
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,512
They felt like
they had gotten nothing.
484
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,916
And my father realized that he
had left his umbrella in there.
485
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,837
And he went back
to gel the umbrella.
486
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,958
And he walked inlo the room
487
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,914
to see them breaking open
a bottle of champagne...
488
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,116
and toasting each other
as if they had dodged a bullet.
489
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:22,869
They looked like they'd
just missed getting hurl
490
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,514
or killed or what have you.
491
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,236
It was a, er...
that was memorable.
492
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,998
[David] All of our parents came
away from that meeting angry.
493
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,117
The parents went to some pretty
prestigious New York law firms
494
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,438
and initially they were met
with a lot of enthusiasm,
495
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,195
and, er... invariably within
a shun period oiiime
496
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,119
were told, er...
there's a conflict
497
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,754
and they could not
take the case.
498
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,430
The'; said, "We have
a number of associates
499
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,871
'who are trying to adopt
through Louise Wise,
500
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,959
"and we don't wanna ruin
their chances."
501
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,395
So, that lawsuit was out.
502
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,110
[David] We were too happy
being together to be that angry.
503
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,358
We didn't understand it and to
a degree we almost didn't care.
504
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,717
Our heads were in the clouds,
505
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,592
we knew our parents
were pissed off
506
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,951
but it was almost like, "Well,
that's our parents' thing to do"
507
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,037
while we were out partying.
508
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,229
[I KIM WILDE: "Kids In America"]
509
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,197
I' Friday night
and everyone's moving...
510
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,035
[Bobby] This was New York
in 1880.
511
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,673
Drugs were different,
people were different,
512
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,757
sex was different,
music was different.
513
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,158
Phew! We just, we just wok
advantage of all those things.
514
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,079
Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll.
515
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,954
I We're the kids in America,
whoa... J?
516
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,116
They were running amok
in New York, I'll say.
517
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,229
Studio 54 was cooking.
Limelight. Copacabana.
518
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,238
They were hitting them all.
519
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,874
[David] New York loved us.
New York lowed us.
520
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,633
All the newspapers
were following the boys around
521
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:21,750
no matter where we went.
522
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,440
I remember one morning
walking in
523
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,395
and my mother throwing
the "New York Post" at me,
524
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,239
at the kitchen table saying,
"I gotta look a! the paper
525
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,794
"to find out where you were
last night?"
526
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,437
The boys thought
they were gonna be stars,
527
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,395
and actually they did star
in one movie.
528
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,717
Walking down the street,
all of a sudden we hear,
529
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,798
"Guys, guys, you're the guys!
530
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,353
"Could you please be
in our movie?
531
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,470
"Please be in my movie."
532
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,479
We didn't know who she was,
and she was, she was Madonna.
533
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,399
The stood on the side
and ogled her.
534
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,431
Pretty soon we got
an apartment together,
535
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,757
the triplets apartment.
536
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,313
[Ellen] The triplefs apartment.
537
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,719
Hmm, ifs like if you had
the most bachelor apartment
538
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,034
times three.
539
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,878
The liquor store
used to deliver the liquor,
540
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,878
At one point
Eddy had appendicitis.
541
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,752
He had no insurance.
542
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,350
And so he checked
into the hospital as Bobby.
543
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,960
And had his appendix taken out.
As Bobby.
544
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,958
I hope to this day Bobby's
appendix stays pretty healthy.
545
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,710
Between working together,
playing together,
546
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,070
going out together,
going on dams together,
547
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,599
living together,
548
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,079
from the time we me! till...
well (ill later
549
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,829
there was nothing, nothing
that could keep us apart.
550
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,111
[Ilene] I feel like I was
the firs! serious girlfriend.
551
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,872
Initially I couldn't really
tell them apart
552
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,274
and I would bump into them
553
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,118
and I waswtquite sure
554
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,437
which one I was
going outwith, so...
555
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,600
Bob has this very raw, natural,
type of intelligence
556
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,870
that I think
I was attracted too.
557
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:27,836
I always thought David
was the best, right,
558
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,279
of the three of them.
559
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,436
L, I've said it
before, you know,
560
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,949
"I got the pick of the litter."
561
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,437
Without a douM, Eddy
wasthe, er... handsomest
562
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,632
of all the three
triplets, you know.
563
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,432
Of course, I'm partial
564
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,120
but, you know,
I adored him.
565
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,315
When I met him,
he was the last holdout.
566
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,673
The Casanova of the three
and, er... I said,
567
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,838
"Oh boy, this guy's
a real bachelor, like player."
568
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,471
But he was so warm
in his smile
569
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,150
and he had wonderful
beautiful hands, soft hands
570
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,880
and when I shook his hand
I mean, I just, l...
571
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,558
You know, I just
loll in love with him.
572
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,432
I'm from a big colorful
Irish catholic family
573
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,710
and he was a Jewish guy.
574
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,479
When he came (u the house
for the first time,
575
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,673
he looked at my dad
and he said,
576
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,912
"I don't know if you know this,
Mr Shanley,
577
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,236
"I've been seeing Brenda
every night pretty much
578
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,918
"since the first day I met her."
579
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,678
And I thought, "Oh my God,
580
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,155
"my dad knows that, you know,
we're together every night."
581
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,909
And my dad just son of, you
know, looked at me like, "OK"
582
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,075
and that was Eddy.
583
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,872
-'I do.'
-'l do.'
584
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,232
[Clapping]
585
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,635
'We love you.'
586
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,234
[Brenda] Everyone loved him.
587
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,878
If there was a scale,
Bobby would be reserved,
588
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,354
David would be middle
589
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,711
and Eddy was just
the loveable, mushy,
590
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,876
huggahle, funny,
591
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,151
you know, he just exuded
warmth and love.
592
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:35,596
[Miming baby laughter]
593
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,350
[Mrs Shanley] 'Jamie's first
Thanksgiving with Daddy.'
594
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,358
- 'Hi, look who's here.'
- 'Yes, Daddy.'
595
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,913
'Daddy decided to show up
596
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,197
'and make a special
guest appearance.'
597
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,792
I 'Happy birthday, dear Jamie
598
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,958
J"Happy birthday to you?
599
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,957
[Brenda] He loved
family gatherings.
600
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,073
[Cheering]
601
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,509
[Alan] You know, Eddy
really, really loved
602
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,871
being around David
and Bobby.
603
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,471
Eddy seemed to gel the most out
of the three of them meeting.
604
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,079
For whatever reason.
605
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,754
[Brenda] He wanted his brothers
and him to have a beautiful life
606
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,998
and everyone to gel along
607
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,352
and he wanted everyone
to he one big family.
608
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,833
Eddy was absolutely
the driving force
609
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,874
in terms of leading the search
for our birth mother.
610
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,230
He got a fever
and he just wanted to do it.
611
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,998
And Alan was also rallying,
612
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,316
because it was just
an exciting (hing to do.
613
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,476
We figured what are the chances
614
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:57,960
of having triplets
born in New York
615
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,236
on July 12th 1961.
616
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,353
We figured out
that New York public library
617
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,040
shaved birth records.
618
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,270
We each grabbed a book
619
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,472
and um! page by page
W W3“! W?!“ “W,
620
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,273
and within a couple of hours,
it was, "Bingo!"
621
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,871
Male, male, male.
Three in a row.
622
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,877
All horn July 12th 1961.
623
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,837
[David] Right next lo it,
birth mother's last name.
624
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,430
The first meeting was a bar
on like, 47th Street.
625
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,791
It was like, her local
neighborhood watering hole
626
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,720
on the East side,
and I! was awkward.
627
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,718
She told the story
of what happened.
628
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,479
Unfortunately it wasn't
a romantic story.
629
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,557
She was a young girl.
630
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,833
Basically, prom night
knock up type thing.
631
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,117
[Alan] I don't think
she ever go! over the fact
632
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,994
that she had triplets
and had to give them up.
633
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,436
You know, to us at 19,
634
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,118
you drink like a fish,
you think you're invincible.
635
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,953
But we found it
a little concerning
636
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,392
that she was pretty much
keeping up with us, you know.
637
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,717
Er... the apple doesn't fall
that far from the tree
638
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,754
and it that's the tree,
I was less than thrilled,
639
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,557
and we had our parents already,
so we met her and I! was OK.
640
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,597
But she was not a particularly
close pan of our lives.
641
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,876
We were all young and starting
our marriages and careers.
642
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,593
'Hi, welcome to Triplets.'
643
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,439
[Newsreader] 'David Kellman,
Eddy Galland and Robert Shafran
644
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,357
'are identical triplets.
645
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,073
'Now they run a New York
restaurant called,
646
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,270
'what else, you guessed,
Triplets,'
647
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,397
[Journalist] 'Welcome. Hello.
Welcome, welcome.'
648
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,590
[David] We had a lot of people
who were coming for us.
649
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,029
They came to see the triplets.
650
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,196
They wanted to be waited
on by one of the triplets.
651
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,356
We sewed vodka frozen
blocks of ice,
652
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,835
and we'd get the whole roam
up and dancing.
653
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,678
It was like this
big party going on,
654
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:34,949
it was like this big
Bar Millvah.
655
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,476
'Triplets become
wildly successful
656
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,715
'owning a restaurant
657
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,398
'in the Soho district
of New York City.'
658
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:50,836
We did over
a million dollars firs! year.
659
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,838
That's when things
kinda got funky.
660
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,194
[Wright] In the mid-90s
I started working on a story
661
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,311
for "The New Yorker" magazine
662
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,318
about identical twins
reared apart.
663
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,794
I've always thought,
664
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,035
"What would it be like
if you turned
665
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,835
"the corner one day
and you saw yourself?"
666
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,713
In the process of my research,
667
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,152
I came across (his obscure
scientific article.
668
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,075
Il referenced this secret study
669
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,556
in which identical siblings
had been separated.
670
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,109
I was shocked and intrigued.
671
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,472
They were separating
identical babies a! birth
672
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,115
for the purpose
of this scientific experiment.
673
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,554
And these babies had all come
674
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,195
from one adoption agency
in New York City.
675
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,918
[Michael] 'The first thing
out of my mouth
676
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,439
'was, "Were you adopted?'
677
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,959
[Bobby] There I am,
this can'! he real.'
678
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,718
[Ellen] 'Twins separated
a! birth.'
679
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,549
[Brokaw] 'Eddy and Robert and
David reunited after 19 years.'
680
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,995
'It's beautiful.'
681
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,236
[David] 'Blue-collar family,
middle-class family
682
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,839
'and a more affluenl family.'
683
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,078
'Adoptive parents should be (old
as much as is reasonable.'
684
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:45,838
[David] 'Something
was just no! right.'
685
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,759
[Alice] 'They were breaking
open a bottle of champagne
686
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,235
'as if they had
dodged a bullet.'
687
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,355
[David] 'All of us were adopted
from Louise Mse.'
688
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,232
[Reporter] 'Louise Wise.'
689
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,069
'And these babies had all come
from Louise 'Wise Services.'
690
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,914
Lawrence Wright called me
691
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,272
and he told me
all about the experiment.
692
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,630
And I said, "This is
like Nazi shit."
693
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,994
ll was kind of like reality
hitting like a tidal wave.
694
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,756
We were a science experiment.
695
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:47,070
These people split us up
and studied us like lab rats.
696
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,875
We didn't recognize this stuff
until it was put in our face.
697
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,319
Until it was in newsprint.
698
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,115
But there were clues
in the past,
699
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,839
I remember
from a very young age...
700
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,152
mpeople would come
to the house...
701
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,440
"usually a young man
and a young woman.
702
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,436
And they had me taking tests.
703
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,439
They did IO tests,
personality inventory tests,
704
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,393
they did eye hand
co-ordination tests.
705
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,072
I do remember people coming
to the house, having tests done,
706
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:43,356
square pegs and round holes,
and Rorschach ink block tests.
707
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,074
"What does (his mean to you?"
that kind of stuff.
708
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,910
Eddy told me
that when he was younger,
709
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:57,273
he remembers people
watching him and taking notes,
710
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,072
and they would ask him questions
711
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,436
and he would get frustrated
with (he questions.
712
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,355
And he remembers
they were videotaping him.
713
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,755
I remember the filming
more than anything else.
714
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,433
I remember having
superflmm films taken of me
715
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,313
when I was on the swing set,
or on the slide.
716
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,954
Every single time they came
they filmed.
717
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,991
Riding my bike,
throwing a ball,
718
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,838
and they wanted to see
how many times I could,
719
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,315
you know, go on my pogo stick,
roller-skating,
720
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,630
throwing a Frisbee,
shooting a how and arrow,
721
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,079
you know,
they had my attention.
722
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,349
I was performing.
723
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,596
The stuff they did would be
more complex as I got older.
724
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,758
Hell weird about it,
I didn't really understand
725
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,757
why they needed
to some so often,
726
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,314
why were they asking me
all these questions.
727
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,237
Somewhere around age
of nine or ten
728
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,237
I started becoming
less comfortable with it,
729
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,874
and it was kinda like, "Mom,
do I still have to do this?
730
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,273
"Do I still have to do this?"
731
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,751
When our parents adopted us
732
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,918
they were each (old
that we were being followed
733
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,394
as pan of a normal study
734
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,518
of the development
of adopted children,
735
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:18,000
They had no idea
that we'd been separated.
736
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,637
The agency said the children
born in this period of time
737
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,958
were all gonna be in a normal
study of adopted children.
738
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:34,629
And, as far as we knew,
(hat was it.
739
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,240
Thai this was a new thing
they were going to follow up
740
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,673
with all the children
and at the time we accepted it.
741
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,231
[David] You're talking
about a group of people
742
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,353
that went and held a baby
743
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,951
and did psychological testing
on a six-month-old baby,
744
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,551
and then went to another house
to see his brother,
745
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,956
and then went to another house
to see his brother,
746
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,359
and did this over years
and years and years and years
747
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,198
with full knowledge
748
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:12,231
that we were within
a 100-mile radius.
749
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,717
And not knowing each other.
750
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,435
It's just unconscionable.
751
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,429
Who would think that anybody
would he evil enough
752
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,269
to come up
with something like this?
753
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,637
In the process of my research,
754
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,560
I learned is that the person
really in charge o! (he study
755
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,673
was Dr Peter Neubauer,
756
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,033
very distinguished psychiatrist
in New York,
757
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,754
director of the Freud archives.
758
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,759
He was an Austrian refugee
from the Holocaust
759
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,719
and he set up shop in New York
and became, you know,
760
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:06,000
one of the great men
of psychiatry in America.
761
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,271
What I learned is that people
at the Louise Wise agency
762
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,631
were separating
identical siblings
763
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,877
and then a beam o! scientists
led by Neuhauer
764
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,389
would follow them.
765
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,990
But it wasn't just the triplets.
766
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,673
There were others.
767
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,676
After my article came out
768
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,917
another twin set
discovered themselves.
769
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,519
'And here they are now.
770
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,675
'I appreciate you coming
on the show today.'
771
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,836
- 'Our pleasure.'
- 'Paula and Elyse.'
772
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,390
[Audience applauds]
773
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,991
'The story is incredible.
Is that the way to tell it?'
774
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,680
'It's funny. I mean, we say
I! I! hadn't happened to us
775
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,997
- 'we wouldn't believe it.'
- 'This is a Disney movie.'
776
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,792
'It's a little darker
than a Disney movie.
777
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,831
'I was at home
in my apartment in Brooklyn
778
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,518
'with my two-year-old daughter,
779
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,712
'and the phone rings
and I answer the phone
780
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,239
'and it was the adoption agency.
781
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,277
“We've got some news for you,
you've go! a twin sister.
782
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,674
"And she's looking for you!"
783
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,314
'You were both editors
of your high school paper,
784
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,919
'you both went to film school.'
785
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,553
'Well, it's funny because I
don't know if you noticed...'
786
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,797
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'
787
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,751
'I contacted the adoption agency
788
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,030
'and I asked them, "Well,
why we were separated?“
789
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,514
'That's the million-dollar
question of this story.'
790
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:20,959
'And they said,
"For a twin study."
791
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,957
'We felt that our lives
had been orchestrated
792
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,276
'by these scientific
researchers
793
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,789
'who put their
scientific needs,
794
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,992
'research needs or desires,
their career interests
795
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,236
'before the needs of us,
and the interests of us
796
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,238
'and other twins and triplets
who were separated.'
797
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,035
[Wright] Nobody is sure
of how many identical twins
798
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,832
were involved in this study.
799
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,431
I was told six to eight,
but we don't really know.
800
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:52,919
When you have
a study like this,
801
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,156
normally you produce
the results
802
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,158
and you show how large
(he sample is
803
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,111
and all this son of thing.
804
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,676
But this study
was never published,
805
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,156
Which makes it all
the more intriguing.
806
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,716
[David] We did have an attorney
807
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,071
try to get us
some of the study records.
808
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,431
We received a small amount
of information.
809
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,797
Il was very dry,
technical data,
810
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,433
that didn't really shed
any light
811
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,040
on the reasons for the study.
It was garbage.
812
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,472
I don't know
what the results were,
813
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,672
or if there ever were results
because I never saw them.
814
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,710
[Wright] They're trying
to conceal what they did
815
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,195
from the people
they did it to.
816
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,992
Why?
817
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,600
[Aline] I mean, what was
the purpose of it?
818
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,598
The study was never
published. Why?
819
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,877
My name is
Natasha Josefowilz...
820
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,673
...and I was PelerNeubaueFs
research assistant.
821
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,479
So, come on in.
Would you like a cup of coffee?
822
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,318
Here are some of my buddies.
823
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,830
Michelle Obama and I.
She is very tall.
824
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,678
I'm like a little shrimp
next to her,
825
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,711
I come up to her right here.
826
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,433
This is Obama three years ago,
827
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,830
and here he is holding
my latest hook.
828
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,190
I have lo bell you.
lsaid, "Barack, I love you."
829
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,551
He said, "I love you too", and
he gave me a kiss on this cheek.
830
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:53,071
Yeah. This is Robert Redford
and Al Gore.
831
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,829
And this is Errol Flynn and me
when I was 18.
832
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,473
I thought he was a hoot.
833
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,271
Picasso's.
834
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,357
When are we gonna talk
about the twin study?
835
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,155
[Clears throat]
836
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,989
You need to know
lam no! part of the team,
837
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,510
lam a peripheral person.
I just do the hearsay.
838
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,076
The first time I heard
about the twin study,
839
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,398
it was still just a dream
in Peter's head.
840
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,034
[Interviewer] What was he like'!
841
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,756
Hmm... sexy,
nice looking, interesting.
842
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,349
His background
was very Freudian.
843
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,357
Anna Freud,
Freud's daughter,
844
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,040
would often some
and visit with him.
845
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,309
He was very focused on wanting
to make a diflerence
846
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,397
in children's lives.
847
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,355
Peter started thinking,
wouldn't I! be interesting
848
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,710
to have a study of mothers
849
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,717
who wanted to give up
their children.
850
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,797
Who happen
to be identical twins
851
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:09,475
and then could he
separated at birth?
852
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,718
If we could put (hem in two
totally different environments,
853
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,673
we would put to rest
the dilemma,
854
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,678
nature or nurture,
forever.
855
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,915
Now you may think,
"Oh, (his is terrible, you know,
856
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,678
"how could you do this?"
857
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:29,998
You have lo put yourself back
in the late 50s and 60s.
858
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:36,396
This was not something
that seemed to be bad.
859
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,910
Nobody said, "To take children
apart, how terrible."
860
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,079
That was not at all
in anyone's thoughts.
861
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,512
This was a very exciting time.
862
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,995
Psychology was just beginning
to be the big deal
863
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,236
that everybody
was talking about.
864
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,551
This was all in terms
of research. An opportunity.
865
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,551
One of the great questions
that science has ever asked
866
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,069
is "How do we become
(he people we are,
867
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,112
"how much of nature
versus how much of nurture
868
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,720
"shapes us into the people
that we become?“
869
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,279
[Josefowitz] I did not go
and do the research.
870
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,914
But I would hear about it
because I was in the office.
871
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,470
What they found out,
was incredible.
872
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,154
'Our lives are parallel
toa phenomenal degree.
873
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,476
'It's, it's ridiculous.'
874
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,999
'We're all the same,
875
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,314
'as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'
876
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,317
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'
877
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,430
'We always talk
a! the same time.'
878
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,437
'You were raised
in different homes?'
879
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,153
[Triplets] True.'
880
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:47,320
I did not believe that it'd be
as much hereditary as it was,
881
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,317
that was more
than any of us thought.
882
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,078
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'
883
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,269
[Eddy] 'We all like
Chinese load.'
884
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,549
'You were all wrestlers
at one time?'
885
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,034
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
886
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,070
- 'You all smoke cigarettes?'
- [Triplets] Wes.'
887
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,554
'Do you all smoke
the same brand?'
888
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,034
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
889
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,469
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- [Triplets] Wes.'
890
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,272
'How's their taste in women,
is it similar?'
891
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,436
[Triplets] 'Yes. Definitely.'
892
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,039
[Audience laughing]
893
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,071
We are moved l0 behaviors
894
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,952
that we are totally
unconscious about.
895
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,950
'You were hath editors
of your high school paper,
896
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,832
'you both went to film school.'
897
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,234
'I don't know ii you noticed...'
898
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,396
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'
899
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,397
It's disturbing,
we don't like that.
900
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,477
People don't like to hear,
they say, "I have free will."
901
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,350
We would prefer that we have
some influence over our lives.
902
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,232
Wouldn't you rather know that'?
903
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,476
Thai you have
some control over this
904
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,558
and so finding out, never mind,
doesn't matter what you do.
905
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,275
So, I think
it's upsetting to people
906
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,550
to see how little influence
they have,
907
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,670
how little control they have.
908
00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:58,792
We don't like that,
we fight that.
909
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,030
If the conclusions of the study
were so shocking
910
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,720
and so earth-shaking,
911
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,070
why haven't you published
your study?
912
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,750
There is a lot
that we don't know.
913
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,555
We have anecdotes
that are very provocative,
914
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,950
but we don't know,
we don't have the data.
915
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,120
[Josefowitz] I don'! know
what happened to the sludy.
916
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,994
I moved to Switzerland
in 1965
917
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,795
and lost touch
with what was going on.
918
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,071
All that research
should be seen.
919
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,959
This study was the first,
and it's also the last,
920
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,311
it will never be done again,
il will never be replicated.
921
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,510
It's monumental,
it's a monumental study.
922
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,350
In terms of the motivation
that they used
923
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,118
c» justify what they did,
924
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,515
I don't even care
because, I...
925
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,198
It's natjustifiahle
what they did.
926
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,037
[Hedy] You know what?
927
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,799
Coming from the Holocaust,
928
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:23,472
our family
has a knowledge
929
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,275
that when you play
with humans...
930
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,876
...you do something very wrong.
931
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:41,039
And I really believe that
because of this research,
932
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,551
these three boys
did no! have happy endings.
933
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,678
'What were some
of the similarities
934
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,757
'you found that you had
as you were all growing up
935
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,509
'in your own respective
households?'
936
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,676
'We all smoked the same
cigarettes when we met,
937
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,870
'we all wrestled
in high school and junior high,
938
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,036
'we all loved
the same food, er...
939
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,400
'our taste in women
was similar.'
940
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,078
'What are some
of the stranger things
941
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,231
'you found out
you had in common?
942
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,269
'Any other more
surprising discoveries?'
943
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,515
'Well, sometimes
when you think
944
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,119
'you're having
a unique though! or idea
945
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,276
'and you go to share it
with someone
946
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,152
'and they say, "Your brother
just told me."
947
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,349
- 'It's a little annoying.'
- [David] 'It's funny.'
948
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,799
'It's a little annoying,
it's unnerving.'
949
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,436
[David] Being in business
with my brothers
950
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,949
damaged our relationship.
951
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,597
There were conflicting
work ethics,
952
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,713
and my father
had passed away.
953
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,392
He really anchored us together
as a group
954
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,239
and kepi (he peace
so lo speak,
955
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,159
They started to argue
like kids would argue, you know.
956
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,511
And they didn't have
that opportunity,
957
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,518
that gilt of being able
to be brothers for 18 years.
958
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,680
When you are living
in a family of children
959
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,270
you learn how w adjust
to each other.
960
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,951
If I don't like the way
you do this, I can get angry,
961
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,038
or I can learn to compromise.
962
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,995
But they met as adults.
963
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,999
And had never learned
how to live with each other.
964
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,078
As things went on,
things go! more complicated,
965
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,238
and as things
got more complicated,
966
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,238
what ended up happening
was I left.
967
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,680
[David] When Bobby
left the business
968
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:43,918
Eddy and I felt
that we were being betrayed.
969
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,715
Bobby felt that
he was being pushed out.
970
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:54,314
Either way, it did major, major
damage to the relationship.
971
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,590
[Alan] I think that took
an extreme loll on Eddy
972
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,076
more sothan I think
David and Bobby.
973
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,679
Eddy was always the one
974
00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:09,634
who just wanted to have
everybody he at peace together,
975
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,671
and Eddy was, was very
upset about it.
976
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,234
He was kind oi crushed
about it. Ii was eating at him.
977
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,120
[Brenda] He dearly loved them,
978
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,197
and he wanted his brothers
to be together.
979
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,313
He was just not really sure
how lo deal with it all.
980
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:30,709
You're just seeing a lat more
kind of up and down behaviors,
981
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,234
erratic behaviors.
982
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,118
[Mrs Shanley] 'Eddy's
growing a heard.'
983
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,958
'Fur face, that's me.'
984
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,354
[Brenda] 'Jeez, wake the child.'
985
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,358
[Mrs Shanley] 'Jamie,
your daddy is fuzzy.'
986
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,439
You're just seeing a lot more
unnatural highs and lows.
987
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:52,079
He would call people and...
a! bizarre hours 01 the evening,
988
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,112
and then they would say,
989
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,229
"I haven't seen or heard
from Eddy in ten years.
990
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,556
"Why is he picking up
the telephone and calling me
991
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,477
"at two o'clock
in the morning?"
992
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,399
You know, those are,
those are signs.
993
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,795
This was just...
this was more
994
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,349
than just somebody
who needed counselling.
995
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,756
This was, like, really
something very, very serious.
996
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,312
[David] He could be
unbelievably chamuing.
997
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,998
'Hello?
998
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,112
Bu! the downswing
was a lot of anger.
999
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,437
Er... there was just
deep, deep darkness.
1000
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,195
[Brenda] Manic depression
1001
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,074
I think was what
they eventually said.
1002
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,272
Il made sense in hindsight
1003
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,513
I didn't walk down the aisle
1004
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,278
thinking, you know,
1005
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:55,394
"I have a man who is suiferi ng
from manic depression."
1006
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,279
People will say, "How
could you not know?", but...
1007
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,438
...he was so unique
and so wonderful and special,
1008
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:07,477
you just... that was Eddy,
you know.
1009
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,390
I was advised that he needed
to he in a... a facility.
1010
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,755
I mean, I felt bad that
I put him through this trauma
1011
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,473
of going into a psych ward
1012
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,750
because I had been in a psych
ward and I know how hard I! is.
1013
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,839
When I was a kid, I spent my
16th birthday in a psych ward.
1014
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,119
We all were really
disturbed kids.
1015
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,232
We were all under psychiatric
care when we were teenagers.
1016
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,194
[David] We all had
very challenging
1017
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,716
and dysfunctional teenage years.
1018
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,069
Could we ask about personal.
1019
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,434
One of you were involved
in a murder,
1020
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:05,629
is that right?
1021
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,113
Ah, it's uptn you guys.
1022
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:10,116
No. No.
1023
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:11,514
People Magazine...
1024
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,951
One was accused of
being involved in a murder.
1025
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,558
And it was me,
1026
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,718
who never met this person
who was killed,
1027
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,752
never was present
or anything like that.
1028
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,438
Il was peer pressure.
1029
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,040
Friends pressuring me
into covering for them,
1030
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,071
telling a story for them
lathe police
1031
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:31,713
and that pulled me
right into it.
1032
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,558
I've never hurt anyone
in my life.
1033
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,035
We know it,
we can feel it.
1034
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,593
We can feel it.
1035
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:48,716
A lot of people in this study
had dysfunctional childhoods
1036
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,115
and some mental problems
1037
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,357
and it raises questions,
you know.
1038
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,518
If you are a person
who has devoted your life,
1039
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,951
like Dr Neubauer has
to the study o! menial illness,
1040
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,994
then is that a factor
that you are researching?
1041
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,679
'The story is incredible.
This is a Disney movie.'
1042
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,711
'It's a little darker
than a Disney movie.'
1043
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,913
When we first met we realized
we had all these similarities,
1044
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,349
we had similar
man nerisms,
1045
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,550
we both had
studied film.
1046
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,516
And then we also found out
1047
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,949
we both had suffered
from depression.
1048
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,119
So, this is the lefler
1049
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,596
that I received
from Louise Wise Services.
1050
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,237
"You were born at 12.51 pm
on October 919GB
1051
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,318
"to a 29-year-old Jewish
single woman.
1052
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,000
"She was very intelligent
with a high IO.
1053
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,839
"She entered college
on a merit scholarship
1054
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,510
"but emotional problems
interrupted her attendance,
1055
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,393
"She had a history
of voluntary hospitalizations
1056
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,477
"for emotional problems.
1057
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,318
"Although I have not
been able lo locate
1058
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,433
"the original medical reports,
secondary sources noted
1059
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,915
"that your mother's diagnosis
was schizophrenia."
1060
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,114
It was really disturbing
to read that my birth mother
1061
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,630
had been in and out
of institutions.
1062
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,752
I started finding out more
1063
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,038
about the other twins
and triplets in the study,
1064
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,594
and it turns out that
not only had many of them
1065
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,320
struggled with mental
health problems.
1066
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,240
But that their birth parents
had mental health issues.
1067
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,272
And their adoptive families
had never been told.
1068
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,194
[Interviewer] How possible is it
1069
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,756
that your mother
had mental health issues?
1070
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:51,873
Er... I don't think
they were severe.
1071
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,515
L, I think that she was, er...
1072
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:01,397
She may have had some minor,
minor issues, er...
1073
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,156
She may have had some, a little
bit more than minor issues.
1074
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,989
Were (he scientists
purposefully choosing children
1075
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,237
whose biological parents
had a mental illness,
1076
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,479
and placing them
into different homes
1077
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,912
to see, is mental illness
hereditable.
1078
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,313
[David] Eddy was in the hospital
1079
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,431
for I think
it was three weeks.
1080
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,474
And then he came back to work
at the restaurant.
1081
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,957
I wasn't there. David
was with him, all the time.
1082
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,270
I think maybe he can give you
better detail about it.
1083
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,438
I was running the kitchen.
1084
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,756
Eddy wasn't in.
I was running the kitchen,
1085
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,438
he was running
the from 01 the house.
1086
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,278
That's the way it worked.
1087
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,915
And I didn't know where he was,
and he lived across the street.
1088
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,871
[Janet] So, David called me
from the restaurant
1089
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,039
and he asked me
to look out the window
1090
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,710
to see if Eddy's car
was in the driveway,
1091
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,717
because if it were
in (he driveway,
1092
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,398
we knew that he was home.
1093
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,070
So, (he car
was in the driveway,
1094
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:37,069
and I said to David, er...
1095
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,556
"Do you want me
to go over there?"
1096
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,798
And David said, "Yes."
1097
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:46,433
[Clears throat]
1098
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,837
And she called me back
a few minutes later
1099
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,076
and her voice
was trembling and shaking.
1100
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,509
She said,
"You've gotta come home."
1101
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,517
And I said, "Why?"
1102
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,279
And she said, "Please,
you've just gotta come home."
1103
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,313
Er...
1104
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:09,237
And I, er... I pulled up
we lived across the street.
1105
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,238
Ipulled up, kind of, just...
cop cars were all there
1106
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,159
and I just kind of,
pulled up on... you know,
1107
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,476
blocking half the street,
left the door open
1108
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,670
and started running
into the house
1109
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,554
and the cops grabbed me and
they wouldn't let me come in.
1110
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,511
They said, "You don't,
you don't wanna see this.
1111
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,120
"You can't see this,
you don't wanna see this.
1112
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,720
"You, you don't wanna see this."
1113
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,673
And that's when I knew
he was gone.
1114
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,676
I told Bobby, "I need
to talk to you."
1115
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,949
And it's as if he,
he kind o! knew.
1116
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,393
He kind of knew, before
the words came out of my mouth.
1117
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,954
Eddy committed suicide.
1118
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,994
Eddy shot himself.
1119
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,516
He look his own life.
1120
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:22,797
I don't remember who told us.
I just remember darkness.
1121
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:34,359
Buried him on Father's Day,
I gave the eulogy,
1122
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,394
and I don't remember
everything I said,
1123
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,911
but I do remember saying
(ha! my brother Eddy
1124
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,952
could light up a room
with his smile.
1125
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,270
W“? Edd? wh ' I' Edd ?
why not n19? Y
1126
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,516
I've asked myself
that a hundred times.
1127
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,996
I'd rather it was me
than Eddy.
1128
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,999
I, I don't know why Eddy
and why no! me.
1129
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,429
Maybe just because...
1130
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,039
I don'! know,
I just don't know.
1131
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,232
L, I, I can't answer this.
1132
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,034
[Interviewer] Thank you, Bobby.
1133
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,151
Oh, you're welcome.
1134
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:25,632
[David] I'd like to know
the lruth about the experiment.
1135
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:32,154
My understanding, within
this small group of twins
1136
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:33,838
that were separated
and studied,
1137
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,831
(here was more
than one suicide.
1138
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,713
It's almost impossible
just to be a coincidence.
1139
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,954
Given Eddy's mental illness...
1140
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,751
...who knows
what's in their DNA.
1141
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,398
[David] If they have
anything conclusive
1142
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:02,876
that is in any way predicting
anything in the future
1143
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,197
that I need to know about,
I wanna know about it.
1144
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,672
[Bobby] There is still so much
that we don't know.
1145
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,876
I have more questions
than I have answers.
1146
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,717
[Wright] One v1 the things
about being a joumalisi
1147
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,479
is that you don't know
what you are gonna find out.
1148
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,955
Sometimes you know
what you didn't find out
1149
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,073
which is frustrating
like with this story.
1150
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,239
Well, I didn't get
to the bottom of it
1151
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,430
because I never got
to see the study.
1152
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:48,278
As no one has, you know.
1153
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,470
That would be the bottom of it.
1154
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,557
But that's why
this is so tantalizing.
1155
01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:06,118
Here's the research
that I kept
1156
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,754
from when I was writing
about twins.
1157
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,076
It's been a while since
I've had a look at this box.
1158
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,430
Oh, this is interesting.
1159
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,356
Mini cassettes.
1160
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:28,519
Before he passed away I managed
to talk to Dr Neubauer.
1161
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,437
He was reluctant,
1162
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:34,269
he had not ever spoken about it
to my knowledge.
1163
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,880
All right, M's see
what he has to say.
1164
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,031
[Switches player on]
1165
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,391
'OK, I've got it on now.
1166
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,909
'How did (his study
come about?'
1167
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,234
[Neubauer] 'I tell you,
1168
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,079
'I would rather
not want to speak about it.'
1169
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,919
[Wright] 'Oh, really? Why?'
1170
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,349
[Neubauer] 'Until
we have published it.'
1171
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,279
[Wright] 'Oh, uh-huh.
When do you plan to publish it?'
1172
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,950
[Neubauer] 'Well, maybe,
we would publish
1173
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,958
'in about a year,
a year and a half from now.'
1174
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,718
[Wright] He was certainly
illusive,
1175
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,990
he was protecting something.
1176
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,749
'Well, tell me a little bit
about the scope of the study
1177
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,918
'and how many people
were involved in it?'
1178
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,476
[Neubauer] 'The study was only
based on a small number
1179
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,912
'of identical twins
separated at birth,
1180
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:25,110
'for many, many reasons.
1181
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,436
'I don! want to talk
about that now.
1182
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:31,269
'We had to stop it because
it became too expensive.'
1183
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,119
[Wright] 'Who was
your primary support?'
1184
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,549
[Neubauer] 'Oh. some private
family foundations.
1185
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:37,999
[inaudible]
1186
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,634
'We gm some money
from Washington.'
1187
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,718
[Wright] 'OK.'
1188
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,469
Private charities and
Washington, what does (ha! mean?
1189
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,273
And I don't know where
theirfunding came from.
1190
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:52,674
[Wright] 'OK, (hanks again
for your time.'
1191
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:53,676
[Neuhauer] 'Bye!
1192
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:57,475
[End of recording]
1193
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,080
[Wright] I think that there's
a great deal of sensitivity
1194
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,316
about this story.
1195
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,158
There's a lot of powerful people
1196
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,352
who would like
to have this story silenced.
1197
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:11,879
[Interviewer] What happened
to the study
1198
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:13,638
as far as you're aware?
1199
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,991
Before Neubauer died in 2008,
1200
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,316
he left
all (he research materials
1201
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,079
in an archive
at Vale University.
1202
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:29,511
Neubauer placed it under seal,
for decades and decades.
1203
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:34,031
So far as I know
nobodfs been able to access it.
1204
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,038
[David] Er...
what do we have here?
1205
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:45,993
Wow.
1206
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,834
This is the Vale University
website, and this appears to be
1207
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:54,678
the Guide to Adoption
Study Records
1208
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,075
of the Child Development Center.
1209
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,956
68 boxes filled
with information:
1210
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,392
charts, films and tapes
and research findings.
1211
01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:09,034
Home visits, that's a big one.
1212
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:13,199
It says that the dates of the
study were from 1960 to 1980.
1213
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:18,076
I guess our reunion,
kind of closed the study.
1214
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,112
"Information about access.
1215
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:25,996
"The records are restricied
until 2065."
1216
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,718
It's sealed!
1217
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,958
So, they did
all that they did
1218
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,799
to have this whole list
tucked away
1219
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:43,835
in a dusty library somewhere,
where nobody can touch it.
1220
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,477
"Researchers wishing
to use these records
1221
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:50,874
"before this date must secure
1222
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,797
"written authorization
from the Jewish Board
1223
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,797
"of Family and Children's
Services."
1224
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,393
The Jewish Board
was the parent organization
1225
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:07,673
of the Child Development Center
run by Peter Neubauer.
1226
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:10,634
My understanding is that
1227
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,877
they are a very, very
powerful organization
1228
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,709
with very deep
political connections,
1229
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:21,719
[Calling tone]
1230
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,194
[Receptionist]
'Thank you for calling
1231
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,312
'the Jewish Board of Family
and Children Services.'
1232
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,510
[Man] 'Hello!
1233
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,996
Yes, hi. My name
is David Kellman, er...
1234
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,432
and apparently, I was a,
one of the subjects of a study,
1235
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:39,598
run by the Child Development
Center many years ago,
1236
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,359
and it's being kept
at Yale University.
1237
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:46,030
- [Man] Wes?'
- And on their website it says
1238
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:48,435
that I would need permission
from (he board
1239
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:51,040
in order to gain access
to those records,
1240
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,596
and somehow (he receptionist
gal me to you.
1241
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,870
[Man] 'Huh. 0K. Er...
1242
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,719
'I'm not aware of any of that
stufl or when the study was,
1243
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:00,955
'hut I can...'
1244
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,354
There have been
a number of journalists
1245
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,710
and as far as I know,
some of the twins
1246
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,558
that were involved
in (his study
1247
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,876
who have tried to gain access
to this material.
1248
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:21,834
So far as I know
they haven't been able lo see
1249
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,440
the results of this study.
1250
01:15:24,480 --> 01:15:27,313
Is there a way that I can go
directly to someone
1251
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,397
that would he able
to provide access to me,
1252
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:31,750
as I was one of the subjects
within the study?
1253
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,555
If anybody should have the right
to see all this material,
1254
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:36,999
it's the people
that were actually
1255
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:38,394
the subject oi the study.
1256
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:40,078
They should know
what was learned.
1257
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,118
[Man] 'I mean, I have no idea
1258
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:47,393
'who would even be the one
to ask right now.
1259
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:48,953
'I would need
to look into that.'
1260
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,516
OK, so you're the first line
of delense, so (o speak.
1261
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,358
- [Man] 'l guess, yeah.'
- [Both chuckle]
1262
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,756
OK, I will send an email to you.
I'll pulaflhe subject line,
1263
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,759
is going to be, er...
"Twin Studies".
1264
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,155
[Man] 'Gotcha!
1265
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:09,269
[David] Louise Wise Services
is long closed.
1266
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:13,199
Peter Neubauer passed away.
1267
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,037
And yet we still
don! know exactly
1268
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:23,916
what they were looking for,
or what they found out.
1269
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,117
[Perlman] I'm a Clinical
Psychologist
1270
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:52,634
and I was a research assistant
on Peter Neuhauefs study.
1271
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,593
I believe I am the only person
1272
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:57,631
who worked
on this study
1273
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,273
who is
willing
1274
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,914
to go
on record
1275
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:03,394
about what
was done.
1276
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:07,353
I was 24.
1277
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,711
This is essentially
my first job.
1278
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:21,272
You know, you had to be careful
to not let on that, er...
1279
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:25,393
"Gee, you lookjust
like your, your twin brother."
1280
01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:30,435
I would've been fired
on the spot, right?
1281
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:32,039
Il was a little tempting, yeah,
1282
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,593
there was, there was
a little bit of temptation.
1283
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:37,076
It's like,
"Hey, I, I know your twin.
1284
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:43,196
"I saw somebody a week ago
who was exactly like you."
1285
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,749
The question whether
I feel guilty is interesting
1286
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:54,317
because I never felt
a responsibility.
1287
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,270
I came on
after this was designed.
1288
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,397
However. I was a participant,
1289
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:05,991
so you could say I was
ethically compromised by (hat.
1290
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:12,912
In retrospect I think it was
undoubtedly ethically wrong.
1291
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,756
I got some notes here. OK.
1292
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:21,873
OK.
1293
01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:27,431
[Sighs]
1294
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,280
These are my actual
original notes,
1295
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:36,756
copies of psychologicals
(ha! I did.
1296
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,031
[Interviewer] And who in, who in
particular are in these files?
1297
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,390
Well, I have the triplets.
1298
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,549
Hmm... Oh, here we go.
1299
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,160
I, I'm not gonna mention
the name. but, er...
1300
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:51,554
[Clears throat]
1301
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:53,477
"He's a loud, energetic boy.
1302
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,477
"His need to establish
his autonomy
1303
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,079
"takes to the form
of showing off,
1304
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,714
"both his intelligence
and his strength,
1305
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:03,355
"and putting clown others
including his parents."
1306
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,350
Yeah, this one's eager
to show off his new bicycle
1307
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,349
and all of his sports equipment
while I filmed him.
1308
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,119
He was very intense
in his play
1309
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:22,394
and got quite... rough.
1310
01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:24,192
This kid had some problems.
1311
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,269
Hyper aggressiveness.
1312
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:32,435
OK, so apparently,
1313
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:33,834
these parents
are not cognizant
1314
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,315
of his problems,
nor are they able to help him
1315
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:37,873
understand his weaknesses
1316
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,470
and establish more appropriate
control over his actions.
1317
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,832
So, I didn't think the parents
were very tuned in
1318
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,520
to the struggles
this youngster was having.
1319
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,397
What were (he findings
of [he study?
1320
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:59,389
I have no idea because
I left the study after 10 months
1321
01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:02,791
and the results
were never published,
1322
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,518
All I have is my Iiltle,
tiny piece.
1323
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,110
It's a mystery,
it's a huge loss.
1324
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,555
All this important
scientific data
1325
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,434
is just buried
in these archives.
1326
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:21,595
[Interviewer] So, some people
have speculated
1327
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,280
that the purpose of the study,
ultimate purpose,
1328
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,197
was looking at mental health.
1329
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:32,350
I... there was, there was never
a mention of mental health
1330
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:38,874
of the biological parents
when I was in the study.
1331
01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:43,438
We were not interested
in mental health,
1332
01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:46,359
that's no! what
we were interested in.
1333
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,040
We were looking
for differences in parenting.
1334
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,594
We wanted to understand
parenting practices
1335
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,075
and how it would affect
development.
1336
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,717
So, you're saying
they were interested more
1337
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:05,637
in the family dynamics?
1338
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,832
But they couldn't have
known that. The}; didn't know
1339
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,837
how the families
were going to interact
1340
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,235
with this newly-adopted child.
1341
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,556
The only way
they could possibly know
1342
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,836
about (he family dynamics
1343
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:21,999
was if they already had a child
placed in that family.
1344
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,951
[Newsreader] 'Another
astonishing coincidence
1345
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,071
'in this story
is that each of the brothers
1346
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,953
'grew up in iheir families
with an adopted sister,
1347
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,231
'all the girls
now 21 years old.'
1348
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,159
[Camera shutter clicks]
1349
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,477
[Perlman] The triplets,
they all had an older sibling.
1350
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:39,715
They were placed in families
1351
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,229
where there was an older
adopted child
1352
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,159
that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.
1353
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,469
That was pan of the design.
1354
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,600
It's good to see you.
1355
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,790
It's good to see you.
1356
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,516
[Interviewer] I'd just like
to show you guys a clip.
1357
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,713
It's Lawrence Perlman, who was
a Researcher on the study.
1358
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,509
[Perlman] 'What were
the findings of the study?
1359
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,509
'I have no idea because
they were never published.
1360
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,791
'We were looking
for differences in parenting.
1361
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,073
'We wanted to understand
parenting practices
1362
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:41,872
'and how it would affect
development.
1363
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,275
'The triplets
were placed in families
1364
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,960
'where (here was an older
adopted child
1365
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,959
'that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.
1366
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,870
'Thai was pan of the design.'
1367
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,957
[Interviewer] How do you feel
watching that?
1368
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,994
- [Sniggers]
- Like a lab rat.
1369
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:08,070
It, it only just makes it
that much... it just only...
1370
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:09,440
ll just makes it...
1371
01:23:09,480 --> 01:23:12,199
- That much worse.
- ...much more duplicitous.
1372
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:14,275
Er...
1373
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:15,799
They're not just
studying the kids,
1374
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,037
but they're studying
(he parents.
1375
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:23,950
So, they did in fact know the
parenting style of each parent.
1376
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,274
So, this was not, you know...
1377
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,358
Obviously it was far
from a random selection.
1378
01:23:28,440 --> 01:23:32,354
They knew exactly
who (hey had chosen
1379
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:38,237
lo place each one of us with
when they called the Gallands,
1380
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,989
and the Kellmans,
and the Shafrans.
1381
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,913
In terms of how
they parented their children
1382
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:56,553
(he three families
1383
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,160
were quite,
quite diflerenl.
1384
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:00,918
Er...
1385
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,759
David's father stood out.
1386
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,474
There was nobody in the world
like his son.
1387
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:12,476
He was so proud of him.
Whatever he did was wonderful.
1388
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:18,630
Bobby's father
was very busy as a doctor
1389
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:23,516
and didn't have the time
to he with Bobby
1390
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,676
that David's father had,
1391
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:29,395
but was as devoted to him
as possible.
1392
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,193
The most traditional
was Eddy's father...
1393
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:40,637
...who was rather strict.
He was (he boss.
1394
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,758
He made the rules and Eddy
was supposed to follow.
1395
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:49,635
Eddy's relationship
with his father...
1396
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:55,279
...il couldn't have been good.
1397
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:02,475
And that mailers.
1398
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,672
[Interviewer] And why do you
say it couldn't have been good?
1399
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:10,476
Because otherwise,
I would have known him,
1400
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,874
we would have seen him,
1401
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:15,316
Eddy would have talked
about him.
1402
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:32,278
This was the last picture
we ever had of Edward.
1403
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,470
He was very gregarious.
1404
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,353
He got into all the things
young hays do.
1405
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,596
He wrecked a car
1406
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,599
and a few things
like that, but...
1407
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:48,476
I mean, occasionally
ldisciplined him.
1408
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:53,230
[Brenda] Eddy and his dad
were very different as people.
1409
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:58,673
Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid,
you know, he wasn't into sports.
1410
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,838
Elliott had a very
strong militaristic
1411
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,157
kind oi approach to life,
very traditional.
1412
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,760
He was a teacher,
he was all about punctuality.
1413
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:13,960
I was a strict disciplinarian,
1414
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,312
and my children
unfortunately
1415
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,119
had me as a strict
disciplinarian too.
1416
01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:26,511
[Brenda] Eddy said he always
sort of didn't feel
1417
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:30,713
like he fit in with his family.
1418
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:38,797
He always felt like, like
he wasn't in the right place.
1419
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:44,797
[Interviewer] How much
did you have any sense
1420
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:48,356
that Edward was unhappy?
1421
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:51,916
He didn't discuss
his problems with me.
1422
01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:59,994
We were a rather quiet family.
1423
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:05,035
We didn't tell our problems
to one another.
1424
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:11,831
We protected each other.
ll was a nice family.
1425
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,232
Some people
are just no! a good fit.
1426
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:28,517
It wasn't his father's fault.
1427
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:34,636
Elliot did what he believed
to be best as a parent.
1428
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,877
They were just different people.
1429
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:43,040
I got the phone call from...
I believe it was Bobby.
1430
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:47,233
And he told me to sit down
1431
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,238
and I said no need to.
1432
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:53,557
And he told me about it.
1433
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:58,800
And then standing right there
1434
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,151
I went over to my wife
1435
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:07,070
and told her Edward
had committed suicide.
1436
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:12,115
And we stood there
for quite a while, crying.
1437
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:23,035
And... that was it.
1438
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:40,150
I often wondered whether
I didn't teach him something...
1439
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,236
"because of the way he left.
1440
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:49,040
I don't know.
1441
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,391
Maybe I didn't teach him
something,
1442
01:28:52,440 --> 01:28:55,831
how to live life or something.
1443
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,430
Thai bothers me occasionally.
1444
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:14,590
[Ellen] Why did the boys' lives
turn out completely different?
1445
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:16,119
I don't need to read any hooks,
1446
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:18,515
I don't need to read
any studies.
1447
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,073
I saw I! first hand
with those three boys.
1448
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:29,351
It's all about nurture.
1449
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,519
[Audience applauds]
1450
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:44,914
'These three young men
1451
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,679
'they are all seated
in the same position.'
1452
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:48,949
[Audience laughing]
1453
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,559
[Schneider] We found
a lot of similariiies
1454
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,240
because that's what people
were looking for.
1455
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:54,873
They smoke the same
kind 01 cigarettes.
1456
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:56,194
You say, "Oh my God,
1457
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,800
'They're smoking Marlboros,
that's amazing.'
1458
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,229
What you're not looking for
are their differences.
1459
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,237
'I can't get over it,
I'm telling you.
1460
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:04,714
'You all wrestled
at one time?'
1461
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:05,830
[Triplets] 'Yes.'
1462
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,753
We found the ways
(ha! we were alike
1463
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,196
and we emphasized them
and we wanted to he alike.
1464
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,673
We were falling in love
with each other.
1465
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:20,236
[Brenda] I think there
were superficialities.
1466
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:24,274
They liked the same things
and they had similar interests,
1467
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,199
but deep down
they were different.
1468
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:33,954
They were not a case study
of biology being destiny.
1469
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,719
I've come to believe
genes and the environment
1470
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:46,230
are close competitors.
1471
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,718
You could say that we drift
in (he direction
1472
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:55,719
that our genes (ell us to go
1473
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,400
but it doesn't mean
you are destined
1474
01:30:58,440 --> 01:31:01,432
to be one person or another.
1475
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:10,318
[David] I believe
that I'm still here today
1476
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:14,758
because of (he foundation that
was given to me by my parents.
1477
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:19,317
I believe that absolutely
made a difference
1478
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:21,237
in terms of snuggling
1479
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,112
with whatever demons
I struggle with.
1480
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:31,351
[Hedy] I believe nature
and nurture both matter.
1481
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:38,989
Bu! I think nurture
can overcome nearly everything.
1482
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,673
Because the sludy's
never been published
1483
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,677
we simply don't know
definitively
1484
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:22,038
how many people's lives
were separated in this fashion.
1485
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:23,639
There may still be twins
out there
1486
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,433
who still don'! know
(hey are twins.
1487
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:31,719
There are probably
at least four individuals
1488
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,036
who were subjects
of (his study
1489
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:37,869
who don't know
that they have a twin.
1490
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,231
If they know that there
are still twins out there
1491
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:46,593
that are missing out on life,
it boggles the mind.
1492
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:48,756
There's two ways
of thinking about it.
1493
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,077
These people really should know
(ha! there is a twin,
1494
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,589
or, "Oh my God, these people
should not know
1495
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:59,032
"that they were used this way,
that will make them so upset."
1496
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:03,199
Maybe this is why the study
cannot be published as yet,
1497
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,390
until they're gone.
1498
01:33:07,480 --> 01:33:09,790
Il really opens up
the possibility.
1499
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,956
Anybody can just
walk around the comer
1500
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,675
and discover that you
have a twin out there.
119104
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