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Marianne Koens was brutally murdered.
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Probably by her partner Anton Bergman and her stepdaughter Julie Bergman.
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I accidentally shot Marianne from the stairs.
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I wasn't even home when she died.
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You put a father on his own daughter.
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And his client is also innocent.
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Claire, that child is lying.
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Of all the people in the world, you ordered Marianne.
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Did you just go shopping in my wallet or not?
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You don't stand a chance against Marianne.
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And we won't ask you about your friendship with Julie.
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Dad!
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About a month before Marianne's death, Anton called me and Bennik
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to say that Marianne had become unwell.
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Later it turned out that she had an overdose of phenobarbital in her blood.
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So that Anton killed Marianne on the side.
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But what he wants to say is that Pix could have been just as suspicious
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and that Park had not even thought about it.
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You don't even know that Pix did it?
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You do have to judge two people in life.
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Then you might as well do it right.
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Yes, wait. I don't know if that's such a good idea.
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It was never my intention to hurt you.
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Maybe I gave the wrong signal.
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I won an apartment and I need money for the warehouse.
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A thousand euros in coke, how do you get around that?
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I quit.
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Already 283 days. I have to leave.
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Are you okay?
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Just a moment. I didn't want to burn half of it.
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Are you the driver?
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Yes.
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According to Jan, those photos were sent with a Twitter account
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with the name Firestarter.
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That's nothing for us to buy.
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He made me take over 18 photos.
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It didn't look like you were against it.
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Look, the lottery is here too.
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Are you nervous?
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It's a light weight.
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I'm not one of those jobless people.
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Come on.
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I'm sorry, but for the first time in 12 years,
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the lottery has been canceled.
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It's your turn.
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Here she is.
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The business is going well?
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Yes, don't complain.
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It's going well, I heard.
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Yes, good driver.
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You should feel it.
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That's possible.
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Mr. Bergman, you are a good guy.
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We vote for you.
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Thank you.
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Sorry.
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Wait a minute.
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Be careful.
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Yes.
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Turn around.
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Are you okay?
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Julie!
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Are you okay?
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You're more nervous than I am.
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Let me see.
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Okay, that's a bit too much.
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Where's daddy?
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Wait, wait.
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Here.
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If you get married, I'll kiss you.
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To thank you.
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I'm married.
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Arjen.
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Hi.
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Do you want to stay with me?
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What about the boys?
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Don't you have a boyfriend?
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Never.
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Did you make that yourself?
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A precious bracelet.
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Something went wrong here.
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The colors, I don't know.
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Isn't it a bit childish?
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No, I think it's beautiful.
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For you.
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Julie, I can't take that.
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Give it to one of your friends.
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You've already made some friends.
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I want to go back to my cell.
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Back to your cell?
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Please.
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You're going back!
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You're going back to mama!
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Mama!
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What happened?
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What happened?
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I don't know if you want to help me.
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I don't know why.
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All of a sudden?
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If something special happens?
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Julie.
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If something's going on, I want to know.
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Otherwise I can't help you.
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I don't want to hurt you.
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Come here.
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Here.
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Hold it in for a while.
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Time is of the essence.
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You can do it.
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Mama, can you knock?
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Be gentle.
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Are you coming?
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Yes. Bye, mama.
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Is everything okay?
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There's no one here, sir. Who are you looking for?
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My sister, Lubna Komiza.
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She left with her boyfriend this morning.
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If you see her, she left that.
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I told you I didn't need it.
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You should have thrown me out.
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Yes, but...
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What do you want me to say?
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Can we talk about it? I don't feel good about what's going on.
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My taxi is here.
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Come on, I'm not the only one who went wrong.
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Dennis!
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Romy.
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Sorry.
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What do you want?
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Yes.
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The prosecutor was contacted this morning by the Begijnenstraat.
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Yes.
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About the conflict with Julie Bergman.
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Yes, indeed.
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There were some problems with her cellmates, but nothing serious.
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Apparently, this box was the reason for the conflict.
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Ah.
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I didn't know that.
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Your client didn't say anything.
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I asked the chairman to put this down and add it to the file.
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But this isn't...
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It's just old scribble.
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This...
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I don't see what that means.
145
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Madam chairman, the jury will misinterpret this.
146
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It's very clear. Black dots.
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That's murder.
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That's...
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That's pure imagination.
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Come on.
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You see that too, right?
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No.
153
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Madam chairman, this has no relevance to the truth.
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This is about perception, not facts.
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We have different opinions about that.
156
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Jan, get the copies.
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Madam chairman, I'd like to put down the next piece and add it to the file.
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To the file.
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Yes.
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I have to make the jury aware that there was an incident this morning.
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A fight took place in Julie Bergman's cell.
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The guard found a notebook that could be objectionable to her.
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That's why this piece is added to the file.
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But we'll come back to that later.
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Mrs. Vermeers.
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You are appointed by the parquet as a court psychiatrist.
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Shall we start with Mr. Bergman?
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In Mr. Bergman's biographical anamnesis,
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nothing remarkable has come to light.
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He grew up as a single child.
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He was a rather weak student.
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He didn't finish high school.
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He has an IQ of 95 and is considered to be average intelligent.
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He is well-spoken.
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I would dare to say charming.
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But he has a rather introverted personality.
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On the one hand, he is very self-confident and noble.
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But on the other hand, he has a low self-image.
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How does that translate into his daily life?
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The test research has shown that status is very important to him.
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The right clothes, the right car.
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But also to surround himself with the right people.
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And all that to compensate for his low self-image.
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And was alcohol a way to deal with that?
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That could be.
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But I mainly link that to the loss of his first wife.
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A woman.
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Could it be that Mr. Anton Bergman,
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if he had drunk too much, that he becomes aggressive?
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Mrs. Vermeer?
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Alcohol causes loss of impulse control.
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So you could say that someone's true nature comes to the fore
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when he has drunk.
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But in this case I can't give an explanation.
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And is there anything you can give an explanation about?
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What I hear here are mainly assumptions.
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My client answers your questions and you project what you want.
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Out of the water, Mrs. Vermeer.
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I base my analysis on internationally recognized methods.
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Questionnaires.
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Did my client state in one of your lists that he murdered Mrs. Koens?
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Did my client state that he will be charged?
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Mr. De Donker will speak later.
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Mrs. Chairman, I'm not in the lead here.
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And Mr. De Donker knows that very well.
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That is your answer.
207
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Thank you.
208
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Now, what struck me in the research
209
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is that the score of the SIMS test was significantly increased on the scale of lies.
210
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What do you mean?
211
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It turned out that Mr. Bergman tried to manipulate my research.
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Are you saying that Mr. Bergman lied?
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Yes, a few times.
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And Marianne Koens?
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I mean, how important was the victim to Mr. Bergman?
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It turned out that he always liked to see her.
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But there was indeed talk of adoration.
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As if he couldn't believe that someone like Mrs. Koens would fall for him.
219
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Was he afraid that she would leave him?
220
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How doubtful, yes.
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On top of that, he is very sensitive to being rejected.
222
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Injury is the worst thing that can happen to Mr. Bergman.
223
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Under the successful appearance of Mr. Bergman
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a frustrated person can get out of bed when he feels threatened.
225
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At such a moment he will do everything to get the situation under control.
226
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If you hear this, you want to get out of here.
227
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No, that would be obvious.
228
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I'm going to call you back.
229
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I made a false statement when my brother asked.
230
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I'm not stupid to have told him that.
231
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In the biographical analysis of Mrs. Bergman
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the very strong bond she had with her biological mother stands out.
233
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She died when she was nine years old.
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That had a huge impact on her.
235
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Then her father played an important role for her.
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I would like to mention that her father had to miss a lot during that period.
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He was struggling with the loss of his real companion.
238
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After dying, Mrs. Bergman completely devoted herself to her sport.
239
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In that way she had been a celebrated triathlete in her mother's footsteps.
240
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Did the relationship between Anton Bergman and Marianne Koens
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later also have an impact on Mrs. Bergman?
242
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Yes, that's right.
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She not only experienced it as a deep betrayal of her own mother.
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There was also a struggle for her father's attention.
245
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She always came to an end at the shortest possible time.
246
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Are there still elements in the personality study?
247
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Mrs. Bergman has an IQ of 82.
248
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We categorize that as below average gifted.
249
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That's because she has a strong dependent personality structure.
250
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And that means?
251
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Well, for example, she finds it very difficult to be alone.
252
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She's always looking for someone who feels life for her.
253
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She needs a prosthesis to be able to exist.
254
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Like her father?
255
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Yes, for example.
256
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But actually it's about everyone who pays attention to her.
257
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Since she is below average gifted,
258
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she sometimes finds it difficult to express herself verbally.
259
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And that can lead to acting out.
260
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That is to say, impulsive, aggressive behavior.
261
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Madam Chairman, perhaps it is appropriate to talk about the incident in the prison this morning.
262
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And perhaps to read from the book about the quarrel.
263
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Madam Chairman, I don't see what one has to do with the other.
264
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You may continue, Mrs. Proculeur.
265
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As mentioned, this morning Mrs. Bergman was involved in a fight with her cellmate.
266
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By the way, she has a broken nose.
267
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That quarrel was about a poetry book of yours.
268
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We found several drawings and texts in it.
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00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:51,920
In which she refers to a person for whom she cherishes feelings.
270
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,880
And from which a very clear hatred for Marianne appears.
271
00:22:56,180 --> 00:22:59,540
Texts? Those are not texts, those are scribbles.
272
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:01,000
I quote.
273
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,400
I hate Marianne, but I love you.
274
00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:07,740
I just want to be with you.
275
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,780
Marianne destroys everything.
276
00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:13,140
Die, Marianne.
277
00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:16,640
I kill you. Die, bitch. Die.
278
00:23:17,020 --> 00:23:19,400
Exclamation mark, exclamation mark, exclamation mark.
279
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:24,360
Mrs. Vermeers, could it be that you are literally articulating...
280
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,180
what she is thinking at the moment?
281
00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:27,260
That's ridiculous.
282
00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:32,320
Mrs. Procureur blames my client on the basis of scribbles.
283
00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:35,060
You may answer the question, Mrs. Vermeers.
284
00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:37,220
Maybe we should also investigate my agenda.
285
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,160
Maybe I want to hit Mrs. Procureur in the head.
286
00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:44,300
I'm not used to that from your master Verlinde.
287
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:45,780
Do you need a short break?
288
00:23:45,780 --> 00:23:47,260
Can I hear?
289
00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:48,380
No, no, no.
290
00:23:48,940 --> 00:23:50,660
Excuse me, Mrs. Procureur.
291
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:51,820
It won't happen again.
292
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:53,700
Thank you.
293
00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:55,720
Mrs. Vermeers.
294
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680
I have found clear characteristics of an electro complex.
295
00:24:00,260 --> 00:24:02,040
An electro complex?
296
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,140
It is an unhealthy fascination for the father figure...
297
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:08,980
in which the mother figure, in this case the stepmother...
298
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,260
is experienced as a transmitter.
299
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,740
So the person that Julie refers to in her texts...
300
00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:17,880
could that be the father?
301
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,440
I can't say that with 100% certainty.
302
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,260
But it is possible.
303
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:23,680
Yes?
304
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,260
Could that fascination for the father go so far...
305
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:32,300
that the stepmother had to die?
306
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,560
That's not impossible.
307
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,060
I can't rule that out.
308
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,000
The different personality structures of Mr. Bergman and his daughter...
309
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,380
can strengthen each other in this context.
310
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:42,760
What do you mean?
311
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,120
It didn't go well between Mr. Bergman and Mrs. Coens.
312
00:24:47,340 --> 00:24:50,320
And given his sensitivity to illness...
313
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,880
it is possible that his fear of being rejected by her...
314
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:54,500
was very real.
315
00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:59,660
At that moment, the rivalry between Mrs. Coens and Mrs. Bergman...
316
00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:00,240
was at its peak.
317
00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:03,320
Plus, the girl would do anything to please her father.
318
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,180
In that case, one can be equal to the other.
319
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,260
We've seen a different side of that stepmother.
320
00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:20,720
So cute.
321
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,280
She's very involved with her clients.
322
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,520
And you can see that.
323
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:27,580
I'm starting to get a bit nervous.
324
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,040
Sorry, John is already here.
325
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:31,740
No problem.
326
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,460
It wasn't about whether he did it or not.
327
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:37,400
But you don't see anything wrong with that.
328
00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:42,030
I follow Frank.
329
00:25:43,450 --> 00:25:45,630
In such a question, what do you know?
330
00:25:46,150 --> 00:25:47,630
You don't want what you want.
331
00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:51,050
It's strange that someone decides what you want.
332
00:25:51,870 --> 00:25:53,490
I think he thinks the same way.
333
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:56,650
I know that both the father and the daughter...
334
00:25:56,650 --> 00:25:57,810
are lying to us all the time.
335
00:26:00,130 --> 00:26:01,970
That's not far from the truth.
336
00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:03,550
The father, yes.
337
00:26:03,770 --> 00:26:06,170
But the daughter doesn't see the girl lying easily.
338
00:26:06,170 --> 00:26:07,130
What a shame.
339
00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:15,400
Where are you going?
340
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,000
Skatepark.
341
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,820
You know what dad said.
342
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:23,760
Koopen, you're a coward.
343
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,740
Don't go skating. You know that.
344
00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:34,330
Koopen.
345
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:40,970
Koopen.
346
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:42,350
Wait a minute.
347
00:26:43,970 --> 00:27:05,150
It's not easy. He's going to show it to Oliver.
348
00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:10,020
He's just looking for pictures.
349
00:27:13,860 --> 00:27:14,720
Don't you miss John?
350
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,240
Does he know a lot?
351
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:18,460
Not really.
352
00:27:19,820 --> 00:27:21,280
But you live so well together.
353
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:24,420
There was someone else, so...
354
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:29,160
Is that why you made it up?
355
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,300
Mom, how is that possible?
356
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,680
You know everything, don't you?
357
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,100
That someone else, wasn't that Firestarter?
358
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,800
I know a lot.
359
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:50,960
Koopen, please. You can tell me everything.
360
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:52,280
I'd rather you be honest.
361
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:54,100
But what? Don't you believe me?
362
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:44,380
Don't you want to eat?
363
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,000
Why didn't you tell me about that letter?
364
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:50,900
Oh, well...
365
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,080
I don't know.
366
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,660
I didn't know I had to.
367
00:28:56,060 --> 00:28:59,180
If I had known beforehand, I could have prepared better.
368
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:02,560
Sorry?
369
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,080
What was in it?
370
00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:04,660
Come on.
371
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:07,280
Kill Marianne, die.
372
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,320
What was the point?
373
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:11,580
I was angry.
374
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Marianne wanted to send me to the hospital.
375
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,940
If I want to protect you, it's important that you tell me everything.
376
00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:24,620
Do you understand that?
377
00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:30,850
Is there anything else I should know?
378
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:33,810
No.
379
00:29:34,390 --> 00:29:34,550
No?
380
00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:35,190
No.
381
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,160
Mrs Vermeers, I'd like to talk to you about the Electra complex.
382
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,550
You talk about a fascination for the father figure...
383
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:56,100
and the fact that the stepmother would be seen as a troublemaker.
384
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:57,120
That's right.
385
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,560
And under that father figure, we have to understand my client.
386
00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:04,200
Indeed.
387
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,300
Logical, because it's her father.
388
00:30:08,780 --> 00:30:10,880
Did Julie Bergman tell you that?
389
00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:12,980
Not literally.
390
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:15,900
But you were able to deduce it.
391
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,920
In my research, I always look at the whole picture.
392
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,480
The way the different elements interplay.
393
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,180
In this case, everything was very clear.
394
00:30:25,180 --> 00:30:29,520
Both the place that Mr Bergman took in his daughter's life...
395
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,040
and the conflict between Mrs Bergman and Mrs Koens.
396
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,680
And that father figure.
397
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,540
Could that be someone else who plays an important role in Julie Bergman's life?
398
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:46,680
I'm not saying a teacher, or an uncle, or a trainer.
399
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:49,060
I couldn't deduce that from my research.
400
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,520
You talked about the importance of Julie's attachment to sports.
401
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Then a trainer will be important.
402
00:30:56,220 --> 00:31:00,000
I repeat, I couldn't deduce that from my research.
403
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,320
You'll have to ask her.
404
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:06,610
Mrs Bergman, you're right.
405
00:31:07,170 --> 00:31:11,850
And tell me, what was the relationship between you and Mr Pijken?
406
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:14,110
Just...
407
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:15,770
Just...
408
00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:18,530
But you were very close, if I understand correctly.
409
00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:23,030
I don't know.
410
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:26,290
How many times did you see each other a week?
411
00:31:26,290 --> 00:31:28,690
Twice, three times?
412
00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:32,570
Four times a week before training.
413
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:36,330
And during the weekend, during competitions.
414
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:39,050
That's almost more than your father saw.
415
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,220
Actually, yes.
416
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:44,800
Actually, yes.
417
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,360
I heard from your father that in the spring of 2019...
418
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,040
you went to Lazarotti with Dennis.
419
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,000
Is that right?
420
00:31:55,980 --> 00:31:56,200
Yes.
421
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,440
A qualification match for the European Triathlon.
422
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:00,960
With the juniors.
423
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:03,680
Dennis said I was ready for it.
424
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:08,120
And you stayed there for almost two weeks.
425
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,100
Where did you sleep then?
426
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:14,400
In the hotel where everyone slept.
427
00:32:14,740 --> 00:32:15,800
Club La Santa, right?
428
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,560
A fancy hotel?
429
00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:19,520
I think so.
430
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,540
Big rooms?
431
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,240
Fairly.
432
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,480
Big if you have the room for yourself.
433
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:27,320
Small if you share it with your coach.
434
00:32:30,970 --> 00:32:33,270
Did you sleep in one room together?
435
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:34,790
Yes.
436
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:37,150
Yes?
437
00:32:38,510 --> 00:32:41,470
A grown man who sleeps in one room with a girl of 16.
438
00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:44,750
We didn't have a budget for two rooms.
439
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:46,650
I slept there for 14 days.
440
00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:48,310
I did that.
441
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:50,030
You didn't even know that.
442
00:32:50,110 --> 00:32:51,810
We'll take it easy, Mr Pijken.
443
00:32:52,410 --> 00:32:53,490
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
444
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:56,130
Mrs Bergman, according to your father,
445
00:32:57,250 --> 00:33:01,530
you went to the gynecologist with Mr Pijken in July 2019.
446
00:33:03,310 --> 00:33:04,050
Is that right?
447
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:10,290
Dad couldn't, so Dennis came along.
448
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:15,130
First sleeping together and then going to the gynecologist.
449
00:33:15,650 --> 00:33:18,190
Is it true that you applied for the pill band?
450
00:33:19,510 --> 00:33:22,150
I didn't want to get my period during matches,
451
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:24,730
so I couldn't apply for the pill.
452
00:33:24,730 --> 00:33:27,550
Dad knew I was going for it.
453
00:33:28,350 --> 00:33:31,030
Dennis didn't do anything.
454
00:33:31,630 --> 00:33:34,170
Is it common to set rules for a match?
455
00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:36,210
No idea.
456
00:33:41,490 --> 00:33:43,870
It was Dennis' idea.
457
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:44,610
Sorry?
458
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:46,970
It was Dennis' idea.
459
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:48,890
It was Mr Pijken's idea.
460
00:33:49,870 --> 00:33:51,970
And if he says it, you do it.
461
00:33:53,910 --> 00:33:56,710
A pill like that has other advantages.
462
00:33:58,390 --> 00:34:03,050
I have a mail from a certain Lotte Verhelst,
463
00:34:03,610 --> 00:34:05,010
a member of the Triathlon Association.
464
00:34:05,490 --> 00:34:06,370
Does her name ring a bell?
465
00:34:07,630 --> 00:34:11,050
Madam Chairman, we're not in the mood.
466
00:34:11,770 --> 00:34:13,350
You know that's not possible.
467
00:34:14,330 --> 00:34:15,870
Excuse me, Madam Chairman,
468
00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:18,090
but I only got that document this afternoon.
469
00:34:19,409 --> 00:34:21,330
I didn't want to delay the process.
470
00:34:22,929 --> 00:34:25,350
That's very kind, but I can decide.
471
00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:25,870
Thank you.
472
00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:28,090
We're interviewing a witness.
473
00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:30,730
Do you have anything to add?
474
00:34:32,070 --> 00:34:34,030
I'd like to continue the interview.
475
00:34:35,010 --> 00:34:35,389
Certainly.
476
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:41,030
Lotte Verhelst reported to the Triathlon Association
477
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:44,389
that she saw Julie Bergman
478
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:47,929
taking a bath in Mr Pijken's gym.
479
00:34:49,409 --> 00:34:51,929
That's not true. It was a misunderstanding.
480
00:34:51,929 --> 00:34:55,030
Mr Pijken, please remain silent.
481
00:34:55,449 --> 00:34:57,010
Sleeping in the same room,
482
00:34:57,970 --> 00:34:59,390
together with the gynecologist,
483
00:34:59,690 --> 00:35:01,090
and together in the shower.
484
00:35:02,730 --> 00:35:04,250
I'd like to add a little drawing,
485
00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:06,770
but it won't be very clean.
486
00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:10,910
How did that beautiful poem go again?
487
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:15,210
I love you, but I hate Marianne.
488
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:18,190
I just want to be with you.
489
00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:19,790
Marianne destroys everything.
490
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:21,430
Kill, bitch, die.
491
00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:23,930
Call sign, call sign, call sign.
492
00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:28,150
Who says Julie Bergman has a problem with her father?
493
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:31,610
What if Marianne knew how close Julie was to her trainer?
494
00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:33,710
Her ex-boyfriend had a B.N.E.
495
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:35,290
and that's why she had to go to boarding school.
496
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,460
Who says Mr Pijken isn't the father figure from your electro complex?
497
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:50,380
In my research, Mr Pijken didn't come into contact that way.
498
00:35:50,380 --> 00:35:53,560
No? In my research, he did.
499
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,140
I'm going to ask you a question, Mrs Bergman.
500
00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:00,000
Dear, I love you.
501
00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:02,120
Is that about Dennis?
502
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,820
Mrs Bergman, is that true about your shower?
503
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,500
We just agreed that you wouldn't say anything to me,
504
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:22,840
and now this.
505
00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:26,320
Dear, I love you. Who was that about?
506
00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:33,550
Julie is looking at me. Did you have something with Dennis?
507
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,440
Do you know what the jury thinks?
508
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,160
They don't see silence, that's what they think.
509
00:36:46,860 --> 00:36:49,720
Oh, that girl Antwoordnie has something to hide.
510
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:53,200
Do they agree with that?
511
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,460
Julie, do they agree?
512
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:11,160
We'll see each other tomorrow.
513
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:24,420
You don't believe all that nonsense, do you?
514
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:27,760
I'm not a pedophile.
515
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:29,200
You shouldn't answer to one of us.
516
00:37:29,860 --> 00:37:30,660
It's not like that.
517
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:32,740
I never touched Julie.
518
00:37:33,740 --> 00:37:35,060
But you were in the same room.
519
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:36,440
Mr. Meulen.
520
00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:39,640
Sorry, that was a mistake.
521
00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:41,560
Now we know.
522
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,600
Thanks for trusting me.
523
00:37:49,020 --> 00:37:50,000
Is that what you want?
524
00:37:51,780 --> 00:37:52,820
What if it's true?
525
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,800
Our client is in private. It's none of my business.
526
00:37:57,740 --> 00:37:59,340
You're defending the wrong story.
527
00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:02,240
Mr. Meulen, go on like this,
528
00:38:02,940 --> 00:38:05,500
and start doubting your ability as a lawyer.
529
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,000
You're being paid to do our job, not to find the perpetrator.
530
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:13,510
Mr. Meulen.
531
00:38:14,490 --> 00:38:15,170
Mr. Jellies.
532
00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:15,950
What can I do for you?
533
00:38:16,610 --> 00:38:18,490
It was a busy day today.
534
00:38:18,730 --> 00:38:21,230
How do you feel about the accusations of Mr. De Donker?
535
00:38:22,330 --> 00:38:25,090
I'm confronted with my client's face every day.
536
00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:28,170
And to have to answer how Mr. De Donker
537
00:38:28,170 --> 00:38:31,230
keeps on accusing me,
538
00:38:31,230 --> 00:38:32,970
I'm really annoyed by that.
539
00:38:34,050 --> 00:38:37,270
So the relationship between Mr. Pijken and Julie Bergman...
540
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:39,750
I can assure you with my hand on my heart
541
00:38:40,530 --> 00:39:00,360
The risk when your client trusts you too much
542
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,720
is that it's very bad if it turns out to be unjust.
543
00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:06,820
Men's toilets are on the other side.
544
00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:14,270
You know how much respect I have for you, right?
545
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:17,730
I can't pee when someone's listening.
546
00:39:18,570 --> 00:39:19,310
That doesn't matter.
547
00:39:20,090 --> 00:39:21,150
Frank, what can we do?
548
00:39:22,430 --> 00:39:23,290
I get it.
549
00:39:23,710 --> 00:39:25,290
That child is all alone in the world.
550
00:39:25,470 --> 00:39:26,890
Mother dead, stepmother dead.
551
00:39:27,930 --> 00:39:28,690
Her father dropped her.
552
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:30,570
And then suddenly, suddenly you.
553
00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:40,420
I'm going home.
554
00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:42,920
Wait a minute, Claire.
555
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,100
I don't recognize you anymore.
556
00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:49,570
Since when do you care?
557
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:53,870
Just keep in mind that the girl is lying.
558
00:40:52,130 --> 00:40:52,490
Hey.
559
00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:54,630
Is that your slut?
560
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:56,830
Yes, of course.
561
00:40:57,870 --> 00:40:58,490
Come in.
562
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,500
This one is already messed up.
563
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,520
Don't pay attention.
564
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,280
Come on.
565
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,760
Murat, what are you doing here?
566
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:24,940
Ah, yes.
567
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,880
Your jacket from the hospital.
568
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:28,300
Thank you.
569
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:31,780
And, just...
570
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,260
Six months already.
571
00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:38,720
Professional.
572
00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:42,860
Technically, 283 days.
573
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,360
But they don't have a penny for that yet.
574
00:41:45,860 --> 00:41:47,160
Are you going to drink something?
575
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,580
Murat?
576
00:41:51,550 --> 00:41:52,310
Yes, sure.
577
00:42:01,210 --> 00:42:02,370
Because I...
578
00:42:05,410 --> 00:42:06,210
Sorry.
579
00:42:07,090 --> 00:42:08,130
That I didn't believe you.
580
00:42:11,410 --> 00:42:12,490
What's up, Steve?
581
00:42:15,150 --> 00:42:15,510
What?
582
00:42:15,810 --> 00:42:16,570
Just a second.
583
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:20,980
Did we agree on anything?
584
00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:23,440
Just one.
585
00:42:23,940 --> 00:42:24,760
Just one?
586
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,980
A sip, a glass, a bottle?
587
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:27,880
Or just one?
588
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,600
Just one.
589
00:42:31,820 --> 00:42:32,100
Shut up.
590
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:32,520
Shut up.
591
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:35,620
What are you doing here?
592
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:37,880
Sorry.
593
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,220
Sorry, honey.
594
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:40,300
I didn't mean to.
595
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:41,500
I didn't mean to.
596
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:42,660
Sorry.
597
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:43,460
Sorry.
598
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,480
He owes me.
599
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:52,590
Sorry.
600
00:42:52,890 --> 00:42:53,150
Are you okay?
601
00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:53,990
Sorry.
602
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:54,590
Come.
603
00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:55,470
No, it's okay.
604
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,100
Always the same.
605
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,440
I'm going to drink.
606
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,180
I'm going to get drunk.
607
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,260
I'm going to fucking go.
608
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:06,960
I'm going to...
609
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:22,540
That guy isn't okay.
610
00:43:25,540 --> 00:43:27,780
That guy is going to be a father to my child.
611
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:54,420
Sweetheart, can we let that process go?
612
00:44:03,850 --> 00:44:05,270
Who put my laptop on it?
613
00:44:07,490 --> 00:44:09,330
Why would anyone put your laptop on it?
614
00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:11,370
It was open this morning.
615
00:44:11,570 --> 00:44:12,590
I was downloading it.
616
00:44:12,970 --> 00:44:13,650
And now it's closed.
617
00:44:17,250 --> 00:44:18,690
Maybe you won it yourself.
618
00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:21,090
That's not okay.
619
00:44:21,350 --> 00:44:22,470
That's my privacy.
620
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:22,830
Stop it.
621
00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:24,750
Please, stop this nonsense.
622
00:44:25,810 --> 00:44:26,450
Is that your right?
623
00:44:39,310 --> 00:44:40,230
Good day, ma'am.
624
00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:41,370
I'm researcher Mousfi.
625
00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:42,870
This is researcher Schaukes.
626
00:44:43,090 --> 00:44:43,790
We're here for Coba.
627
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:51,960
Good day, sir.
628
00:44:52,220 --> 00:44:53,040
Sorry to interrupt.
629
00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:55,520
We've been commissioned by the prosecutor of Schoonincks
630
00:44:56,180 --> 00:45:00,140
to take care of the video transmitters and communication devices of Coba Adams.
631
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:00,880
Is that right?
632
00:45:01,780 --> 00:45:02,300
Yes.
633
00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:06,200
Could we ask your permission for a house deed?
634
00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:10,060
Is that related to the pictures of Jean?
635
00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:11,560
Her parents filed a complaint.
636
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,740
Could it be that your phone is at school?
637
00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:48,140
Or somewhere else?
638
00:45:51,970 --> 00:45:52,770
I've been fired.
639
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:55,250
I've been at home all day.
640
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:57,790
Come on, Coba. Where's the phone?
641
00:45:58,770 --> 00:45:59,670
You've had it all day.
642
00:46:01,170 --> 00:46:02,150
I went to the store.
643
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:04,150
Maybe it fell out of my pocket.
644
00:46:06,750 --> 00:46:07,910
That's quite a coincidence.
645
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:08,130
Where are you going?
646
00:46:08,670 --> 00:46:10,250
I don't know where it is.
647
00:46:10,650 --> 00:46:11,110
I swear.
648
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:14,840
Okay.
649
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:18,140
We'll start with the laptop.
650
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:18,660
Yes.
651
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,200
And then Coba can come to the office for an interview.
652
00:46:54,650 --> 00:46:55,930
Are you tired of the new pills?
653
00:46:58,070 --> 00:46:58,610
Yes.
654
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:02,720
I'm falling asleep.
655
00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:06,580
You don't have to take them every day.
656
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:08,540
The specialist said...
657
00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:10,360
I don't know if I still want this.
658
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:18,780
What are you saying?
659
00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:27,120
I don't think...
660
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,120
I mean...
661
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,100
I don't think I'm suicidal.
662
00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:40,960
But I really don't know if I can still do this.
663
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,320
Living like this...
664
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,940
It's not that...
665
00:47:43,940 --> 00:47:45,380
It's not that abnormal.
666
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:47,640
That thought.
667
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,920
We haven't tried that yet.
668
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:56,220
We can have another surgery...
669
00:47:56,220 --> 00:47:58,540
We can take away a lot of pain.
670
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,040
It's worth trying.
671
00:48:00,740 --> 00:48:02,440
We can barely pay the rent.
672
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,140
A citizen who wants to work four or five days a week
673
00:48:06,140 --> 00:48:06,840
can take over his shift.
674
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,560
I don't understand what you're saying.
675
00:48:21,340 --> 00:48:21,940
Everything.
676
00:48:22,940 --> 00:48:24,320
I see everything in you.
677
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:35,890
I really want to...
678
00:48:36,590 --> 00:48:38,230
I think, I believe...
679
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,060
But we can't give up now.
680
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:09,240
Simon.
681
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:13,680
Maybe you should talk to a therapist.
682
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:17,890
It's about Esther.
683
00:49:18,090 --> 00:49:19,910
That's why we're here.
684
00:49:20,590 --> 00:49:24,090
But the impact this situation has on you...
685
00:49:24,090 --> 00:49:25,790
It's not understandable.
686
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:29,460
There's nothing wrong with me.
687
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,700
I don't say that either.
688
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,020
Lena Schoonjans.
689
00:49:40,940 --> 00:49:43,460
She has a lot of experience with mental health.
690
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:45,620
Thank you.
691
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:48,720
Anything else?
692
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:05,100
I knew about the room in Lanzarote.
693
00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:09,380
I knew about the gynecologist.
694
00:50:13,660 --> 00:50:14,680
But I didn't do anything.
695
00:50:17,890 --> 00:50:19,610
I thought it was normal.
696
00:50:20,510 --> 00:50:33,430
In any case, the jury now agrees
697
00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:36,010
that Julie and Dennis could have survived the murder.
698
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,020
Is that what you're thinking about?
699
00:50:59,740 --> 00:51:02,900
I'm confronted with the loss of my client.
700
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:03,720
A flower?
701
00:51:08,290 --> 00:51:08,990
It's a child.
702
00:51:09,830 --> 00:51:11,650
I'm really disappointed.
703
00:51:13,830 --> 00:51:14,230
A son?
704
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,860
Come on, we can wait till tomorrow.
705
00:51:27,700 --> 00:51:28,180
I'm sorry.
706
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:29,940
Sleep well.
707
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:30,780
Thank you.
708
00:53:30,190 --> 00:53:30,730
Are you ready?
709
00:53:32,190 --> 00:53:32,770
After Dennis.
710
00:54:20,130 --> 00:54:22,090
I forgot my shampoo. I'll be right back.
46857
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